This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose will be discussing scheduling, and how busy their labor is in this current climate.

FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.

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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

welcome to this weeks

episode of the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career

this week's a little bit of a um a little different of a of a um

huddle I'm just I'm hoping that we can get some participation because the question is uh you know how's your

how's your schedule looking how far out are you booked it was pretty easy or pretty uh simple topic but I'm just

curious on uh you know how installers schedules look at this time of the year

and um what kind of backlogs we're all dealing with not not necessarily just as the

company but kind of overall so um

it's a it's a good way we're coming up at the year end here uh I think our next huddle we're going to talk about goals

uh either the next huddle or the Huddle after that talk about how to set you know

real goals and and I know we've done that before but it seems pretty fitting coming up to the end of the year so

so join me as always is Daniel and Jose from preferred flooring out of Michigan

gentlemen how you doing today doing great good

so how's uh how's the uh installation Market schedule in your guys's area do

you know how the uh how your subs are handling is it busy busy is it slowing

down a bit all right we've been slowing down quite a bit um over here in our area

mainly on some of the negotiated work has been a little bit slow right but there's a lot of bits coming across but

the bits don't do us any good right now um and if we weren't winning uh bids a

few months ago then you know then a little bit of a roll right now for that as well but

um that's it's this this time of year is I don't want to say it's always like this

because it's not always like that but this is the time of year where it's a little bit of a low and then all of a

sudden right before the holidays or during the holidays everybody wants everything done yeah your shutdown work do you guys do a

lot of shutdown work like just over the whether it's a school

um restaurants yeah got a couple restaurants that uh are

gonna be happening around the holidays um that's the only time that they can really justify shutting down for a week

um to take care of some loose items um I had some other things scheduled for the holidays but we were able to move

them up and the schools were able to accommodate a schedule sooner than later so uh it actually helped out a lot

awesome well we've uh I'd say that the bid Market seems to

slow down pretty well but if you if you captured the right jobs at the right time in the past you're probably still

busy right now installing and moving materials and all that good jazz so

I mean we're ordering materials and setting jobs up we got a few shut down jobs but overall uh I was just looking

at the schedule in go Carrera that kind of shows where a lot of you know

installer schedules um it appears you know it'll be slowing

down a little bit and uh I think I've hit on this before but

the architectural Billings look to be good through 2023 so commercially it

looks like it's still gonna be somewhat busy I'm you know a major world event could change that so you know be on the

lookout um we're kind of in some weird times from a you know a world

economic and and uh political stance

um so we'll see if that if the uh stats I've heard that the architectural

buildings are are maintaining through 2023 could spell another decent year here so

talk to a few installers and prep for this and um there there are some guys sitting a

little bit more around right now um uh so great time to get some education

classes in what's that great time to get some education classes and some training some Hands-On use your downtime wisely

if you've planned it correctly no doubt that's a great Point

um yeah it'd be a good time if you if you are a little bit slow to join in on some

of the fcica webinars that I know there's uh Ardex is always doing different webinars and I don't know off

the cuff um of some that are coming up but I I do know that you know there's constant

training there and then there's some courses uh CFI is constantly running stuff you can always go to our training

page that stays fairly up to date with new trainings um and you know opportunities for you

guys so I wanted to mention the forward progress um Sim scholarship again uh I'll I'll do

that every every week until we get as a winner but um when does that stop

Ashland is the deadline for so December 15th is the deadline for applications

for that that scholarship so if you guys um you know know anybody or if you've

received the email from scica feel free to forward that on or the email from go

Carrera please forward that on to anybody who may be interested

um outside of Daniel where I

and uh so yeah pass it around and and I know several people have already

um applied for that scholarship so I'm looking forward to uh handing that out

and and hopefully uh starting something uh where we can maybe uh we're pretty

committed to doing that every year uh but hopefully be able to do even maybe a little a little bit more maybe two of

them a year we'll see how it gets uh received by the audience and and by installer so specifically I'd

like to see an installer win this thing um I don't have a lot of control over that but uh the installer group does if

you'll go and apply for the scholarship and you it's free I mean go apply and

win and uh take the opportunity to learn something that you're not going to be taught in

your standard Technical Training this is a lot of those soft skills we've talked about on the Huddle before and it's a

good training we have several cims at our company at our flooring company and

uh I know Daniel's gonna be one and I'm gonna joining we're going to make sure we're

together on that actually eventually I can suppose we'll be over there then I can cheat off of him no I'm just kidding

um right now too so there's going to be a little more

a little more streamlined process I want to say um instead of the the longer drawn-out

version of the educational uh portions so hopefully it turns out well you guys

working on that is that what you said yeah yeah um I've been working on it with Amy Johnson just a little bit I

mean I think uh a little bit behind uh schedule because I'm gonna get some

PowerPoints together and approve but I know that there's uh there's several people working on

um creating a better version of it to expedite the educational portion

that's cool because you know I've read through most of the stuff that our cims

brought back after the you know they they did their three-day

um that's one heck of a program as is so

uh kudos for making it even better so I always got the best on that for sure

that's awesome okay so cim don't forget get on uh Ford

if you've received the email from fcica or go Carrera please forward that on and

let's get as many people uh the opportunity to win this uh this scholarship as possible

that being said um I guess the point of this is you know

we're always talking about how short it is um I'm I'm just curious is

uh do what happens what in your guys opinion what happens if you add six or

seven thousand installers are we still just better off in the busy times than a lot of guys sitting around that's a

controversial statement to bring up but I'm I'm curious your guys's opinion of that we say we're you know six eight ten

thousand short and I believe I believe that stat I actually believe it's going to be way worse than that meaning when

we start aging out I mean we've already started but really then this next five

years you're going to see a big decline I believe but at this point if we were to add say

8 000 installers Across the Nation uh would it just help in the busy times or

is there enough work out there um and and again just this could be a

really short huddle because if we don't get a lot of participation we're not going to have a lot of uh material to

work off of but uh that being said what do you guys think about that do you think that that

um we need like this 8 000 number that I keep hearing and that we've heard over

the last several years or is it a matter of uh we're just used to working so hard

in so many hours in fluorine that we'd actually have a normal life and

that would be okay or uh what's your guys's take

well I still want to say that one of the the

biggest issues is getting the the costs up where they need to be in order to

sustain everything that you need to because there's too many guys out there that

and we we say it constantly right they're they they pretty much just own a

job and they're that's all they're doing so they're not taking care of themselves they're not getting their health care

which means that they're not going to the doctors on a regular basis which means that if they do hire someone

they're hiring them wrong so how do we get the the rates up to the point to

where people can comfortably do this

and do things right at the same time because

I mean Healthcare and this stuff goes hand in hand and well I'll say it again you know I will continually say it

I should have been in the doctors a long time ago you know should have been wearing knee pads from day one like we

have our guys do should have uh we have you know cut resistant gloves on

the Shelf just in case anyone wants to it's it's a lot that goes in it that a

lot of people don't really take into consideration and um some of the

some of the organizations out there keep on pushing like

how much money you can make and throwing out these ridiculous numbers but I mean

that's only gonna if it does bring them in it's only going to take them so far that could be because as soon as you get

the the full scope of kind of what the industry entails it's like man this is

not what I thought it was going to be right so I think I think it's it's sorry to

interrupt but I think it's important that we we what the point you just brought up is is

um worthy of a little deeper dive is we throw these big numbers out but you have

to realize that those are those numbers are really

if you and if you own a job I don't necessarily think that you know you being you owning your job is a bad thing

as long as you're valuing the trainings and your your valuing your what you are

providing and providing that uh at a worthwhile cost and

um you know take into account the education and the the the professionalism if you're acting

like a true professional and you are a professional Floor Covering installer that is

um then you can make a lot of money I think what we're talking about though is

that the organizations take numbers from current

say subcontract uh installers professional guys

but not talking about the amount of time or effort or hours that they are putting

in what I would love to see in this industry is a you know hour more hourly

um even though go Carrera really is built for more of the independent

um but also just making sure that the uh independent Labor uh on the market is

held accountable to Quality expectations education expectations uh those kinds of

things so that the industry can become healthier from a fiscal Health standpoint a financial standpoint and

you mentioned you know like insurance and stuff like that I mean there's

um if you even have a health savings account right an HSA as a as a sub which at the

very least I would I would recommend you do there's a lot of financial benefits to doing that

um but the point is you gotta you gotta make enough money to put it in there right so when they talk these numbers

they're not talking about a lot of the people they're talking to say a subcontractor say yeah I made 350 last

year and the question is did they

is any of that put back is it have they taken care of their do they have health insurance and those kinds of things like

and if so then you really got to take that away from that 350. you know like I could say we did 12 15 million last year

well it's not like I got 15 million dollars in the bank account you know what I mean so

just making the numbers actually realistic and real

um so and then your rally cry Daniel look if you're an employee demand to be

paid on a W-2 and have the same benefits as whoever else is there on payroll at

the company that you're at if you're a 1099 you are your own guy

and you got to take care of yourself and the you got to have the money to do so so make sure you're charging

appropriately right and like you said you know it's not a bad thing to own a job a lot of guys like working just by themselves and

that's totally fine I mean uh even you know in the field

a lot of the time just like you guys just go do your thing and then I'm gonna go do mine over here work by myself

because I just I need that piece and I can understand where where a lot of people would just want to work by

themselves and if that's what you want to do there's definitely you know ways you can make a great living and flooring

is one of them yeah but I still I still echo your your

sediment still take care of yourself and if you're working alone it's going to be a

lot harder on your body but I think one of the biggest plagues and you brought it up it's not it's not

10.99 subcontractor installers it's those subcontractors

hiring people and then paying them is 10.99 that is the piece where you get a third

tier that's where it starts to get really messy and quality control gets lost you know we've had it happen to us

we award a job to to a sub and then they have some other guy do it that works

with them but is a 1099 as well well how many layers of 1099 are we gonna go here

like you know what I'm saying someone's got to have employees I'm happy to we do have in-house

employee benefit installers but we also have Subs I would love for those subs to have

employee installers that they are um somehow incentivize to make sure that

their employees are trained that used to be what the companies did now that the subs are out there so

heavily and have been for 20 you know going on 20 years here they really need to hire employees and

and make sure they're charging enough to make sure that employee can be taken care of so if you have one helper the

helper should be paid on a W-2 it benefits you greatly uh although you

still have to then you have to pay taxes and those kinds of things payroll taxes but it's it's really not that difficult

if you just get an accountant that can help you out a few hundred dollars a year and can

help you you know towed a straight line um so yeah that's where I see

that's a law off subject obviously but uh that's where I see where it's what's new on here you know things play off of

each other yeah when you when you do have employees right because we're focused on how the schedule is right now

and it has a lately it's been essentially hit or miss and I think we've been a little lucky to have some

things fall in our lap but for the pet like last week we had the guys in here and we brought the the training boxes

down and it's like you know we got time you guys are this is this is the material you're gonna work with and

essentially go in this box and what we're looking for is perfection so if you're going to present me with anything

less than perfection let's do it again yeah it's awesome those um

over this time of year is typically uh when we when our training module gets

the most activity as well you know a guy has a day off instead of him going taking PTO if he

wants to uh not use his time off and once to work we'll put him in the module

and and have him you know some of the really good guys will put them with someone else to train

them for the day uh in the module and we'll use some leftover sheet vinyl

whatever and wall tile we've installed everything in that doggone module so

so now's a I guess you know now's a great time to train if you're a

company out there get your employees into talking about kind of um the people that had stuff going on if you look at

the Naf CT they actually have an online course for their uh subfloor and

substrate and it gets really in-depth on some stuff I mean like

I've been doing this for 20 something years right and when we went through this I was like man I never knew this

information like it's things that you the science behind everything that you

wouldn't even think of if you know you're just doing it forever you would actually have to go super

in-depth and it kind of gives you that that background like this material is this way because of this and if you see

this on you know wood that's because it's made this way that means it's going to grow more this way than it would the

other way and it gets very very in-depth and I I would

encourage everyone to take that just for you know it's great knowledge

and which one is that the subfloor and sub-story prep yep

so there's one coming up in Stockton California so I think the way they have it set up

is you actually it's videos online you watch the videos you take the test and

then um the actual in-person stuff is only a one day deal where you go show up and

then that's when you you're able to but you had to have taken the the written portion first correct

yep so it looks like pretty pretty simple just like you said Daniel it's uh sign

up for the certification program and you can just go to nafct

.com and then click on training and go to calendar classes and then you can

click on any of those trainings and I'll tell you right there they're actually at the the first in-person one that they

did um in Ohio right at uh Jason Goldberg's

place and it was real nice to see like

all the different prep manufacturers working with each other knowing that

everyone's getting along you got you know I'm a pay guy mixing stuff in Ardex

bucket and it's just it was great to watch everyone kind of interact that you

think well this is a competitor well just another tool in the toolbox man there's places for everyone out there

and everyone has their favorite but you always need something else because at

some point your favorite is going to be like oh yeah we're not going to cover that yeah well and

they all realize they have each one has some Unique Products so you know there

are certain things sure Knox has that Muppet doesn't and vice versa and Ardex has that no one has and so it's good to

know that the manufacturers work together I got a question for you Daniel can you take the online version and then

go to any of the uh the in person Hands-On I believe so I think

so I I'm not sure that's convenient if it works that way that's really cool so you

can do everything online and then once you're finished with that you can be like oh this one's next month right in

my hometown so that's the one I'm gonna go to so go get your the written portion

done and even if it's several months away from one in your area being

performed do the written one and um

be prepared for your your in-house sorry I was looking at this um

the the different dates yeah there's several on November 16th from

Calhoun Garland Texas and Stockton California so yeah that's it's cool if

if you can go on and and complete the um

complete the online portion of it and then go to the one that's closest to you so

you know a few hours a dead time could be used to learn something new and uh or

or even you know kind of strengthen what you may already know and uh and then get

prepared for you know the sub the substrate and floor prep now I would say

that class also qualifies for a badge and go career which is cool um it

the purpose of badges is you know obviously you may be great at carpet or or or whatever but if you're doing

flashcode she vinyl or she vinyl and or lvt or any of that stuff I want to see that you got a self-leveling floor prep

badge because that badge tells me you've been through a couple of courses teaching you the chemistry which is I

think the piece that you can't it's difficult to learn the chemistry piece

outside of a training an education from the manufacturers

you know unfortunately a lot of people learn the science behind everything after something fails instead of before

um and and that's a that's the sad truth and that's that's a hard pill to swallow but we've been on

on the learning side of that both both sides um yeah

that's what it is right it's better um but hey I wanted to go back to the

the original question and uh the subject when you said uh earlier you said because of these slow times do we really

need eight thousand are we really short 8 000 or whatever number uh installers

and um this is theoretical right and it's just

uh I feel like yes we are short but we're short qualified individuals

not just an installer got Advantage some tools or short qualified people who are

um who are doing quality work because that's what's that's what's disappearing uh is the

20 years 30 years 40 years experience is what we're losing and we're gaining the

two years doing residential care but now I'm going to start my own commercial flooring business you know I mean that's that's I

think that that's what's really watering our industry down and that's what hers is

what will they do to the market if we had 8 000 more qualified installers it

you know part of me thinks I like something what happened where now work is scarce and now we have to compete

against one another but the other part is like I wonder how many businesses how many owners how many uh places aren't

accepting bids or changing uh when they're doing work because they can't find the qualified people how many

people are pushing it off until the next year and it just piles on and piles but they just don't or they just don't bid a

specific type of flooring because they don't have the expertise to do it that would be interesting but you bring up a good point I wonder uh

you know when you talk about uh good quality guys

like I I know we preach training and and education on

here that's because that's how we there's only two ways to learn you either have to have an amazing person

ahead of you that's willing to teach you and so your experience turns into you

learning or you have some experience that you marry with actual training like

the only way you get better at anything is doing it and learning it like education and expertise or or experience

so I guess all that being said yeah you you have

when you when we talk about losing or aging out on some of uh the older

installers you are losing that 20 30 years and you're gaining uh less

I hate to say it less experience less qualified really uh installer group

I guess the question is if it if we did have say 8 000

do supply and demand economics come into it so we're already talking about not getting paid enough in What atmosphere

is it going to take for prices to go up then because if Supply did demand

economics are at play then lower lower Supply on the installer side more demand

in the in the need should equal the higher wages period it should it should

bring that up and then you swap that you get enough installers to do it on a

40-hour week increased competition increase Supply does that drive prices down

I guess it depends on the market and the area right what time of year is it are you going after commercial residential

are you doing educational are you doing health care I mean how about this for an

answer if they've invested in themselves and spent money on training and

certifications and education they're less likely to take a job for super

cheap and drive prices down so if they're highly qualified and trained and

they have a there's a a barrier of Entry I just wish there was a more you know

that's what go career is trying to be is some barrier of Entry that encourages guys to uh guys and gals installers in

general to get trained and certified to increase their Hammer rating to qualify for more work

that's the whole spill right so if that's it then there's the the

installers who are putting forth the money and the time to go pay for a

training be at a training or you know take an online course and then go to a

training um it's the guys that don't have that that

are gonna in my opinion they're gonna drive down the price and I was part of the problem when I first started I I'll

so I know that I know this is how it happens I mean I'd only been doing it for a year probably uh less when well yeah

about I guess it'd be maybe three years total before I went out and started subbing

um I had no business doing that and I I

charged way too less of a prize way too low of a price and the purpose was I wanted to get work and and

put food on the table but at that point I hadn't taken any training I hadn't

gotten any certifications uh so the young Paul Stewart is the problem

with the industry and I think that's where most everyone gets their start if they're starting on

the installation side anyway um unless they are working for uh I mean

they're not in some contract if they're working as an employee or for a union they have um the Union's got a lot of

programs in place just for them and that's awesome um and I don't know too many people that

said I left the union to start my own you know what I mean they're comfortable right um

but it's the Entre entrepreneur's spirit that forces someone's mental to take that

that lateral movement and walk alongside of the people they learned with

um to try to start their own future and unfortunately we did the same thing we we started we didn't know right no

matter how much practice we got how many questions we had um every answer was different we didn't

know what to charge so you start and then you start fighting out we ain't charging enough

yeah maybe maybe we gotta rethink these prices if we get enough people on here

um participating we've weekly we we have a decent audience that we're obviously

trying to grow it here on the Huddle but it would be I would love to have that like

disclosure like transparent conversation with 10 or 15

installers on the Huddle about pricing and and how they're going about it and

a lot of things to factor in there that's actually a good topic right there yeah because we talk to people all

across the U.S about pricing already right in it and people reach out to me on a regular

basis and even you know the local guys and they're like what do you guys get for this what do you get for that and it's like I'm gonna tell them exactly

what we're getting for because that's what I feel it's worth like if you're not making this doing this

stop doing it and some people are like man you don't charge enough and some people are like I

can't believe you're getting that and it's just yeah it's so Regional yeah I mean

and I I I still believe that the the higher

trained you are I know my prices for some of the work after I've after we

get trained or we got certified or or what have you prices did go up I I just

understood the value of what we were providing better after I had gotten

educated so uh I know we preach on it all the time but I'm not stopping we we've got to get

our industry the health of our industry better through training and education

start Bridging the Gap you know with with the the actual stores because a

majority of the guys out there are subcontractors and if we don't start bridging that Gap there's always going

to be that disconnect between even just the salesman and his installers because

I've I've met you know project managers on job sites um for local companies that we have said

no to work before but they get put in a spot and they you know I show up and we're walking around the job and he's

like well what do you think of these prices and I was like yeah we can't do it for that price he's like but I got someone else that says that you know

they'll do carpet tile for two dollars a yard I said why why did you even call me here

and that's that's the disconnect that that people have it's like at some point these stores got a even

talk to the guys and be like listen you're not charging enough for this but

they're too worried about padding their own Pockets because every time you go on the groups and you know

um it's a majority of it is actually retail store owners so they're doing a lot of residential but that's the only

thing they talk about is numbers numbers gotta hit this margin gotta hit that margin and then the only time they bring

up uh installation is when there's an issue and then at that point it's bash

the installers when in reality it's maybe if you would have sold the right

product or if you would have hired the right people you wouldn't be in the situation you are now and and that goes

to like some of the relationships that we have and um extremely transparent like I know that

when we're hired for for the labor portion I understand 100 that they have to make

money and I am by no means trying to pick their back pocket um and and some of this give and take

right like I know that on this project right here I know that I might not be able to recoup what I feel

we've invested in some of the the ads or the unforeseen conditions but I know

that I'll make it up with them on the next one or two so I'm not concerned about that and transparency is Paramount

I just we're all in it to make money we're not in it for practice and if you're working

with a company or a store that understands you guys and your value then

they have no problem sitting down and saying hey I'm in a bad spot at this number or hey

uh can you help me out or hey you know what we did really good on this job here's a little bit extra guys and

that's happened to us and we're like um I'm not gonna say no

yeah they that that's a funny dynamic

um have you ever had a GC call you hey you did a great job guys I'm going to give you an extra XYZ on this contract

that never happens I've never had a GC copy I've never in 20 something years

ever had a GC I've gotten compliments like hey man you guys did a great job thanks for this guy or that guy but

never hey you know I know that's a two hundred thousand dollar job but I'm gonna send you a change order for 10

grand just because you did so good it doesn't work that way for the flooring

company so when it does work that way for a sub um that's a company just showing

appreciation but what I'd say is the the installers in the industry just have to

and I know it's very Regional but you just have to value your your body and your work and what you're

providing and I just find it the guys that are not trained that's how go career ever came to be is when we

started searching all over the nation for installers to do a big national account that we have

um when it first came around in early 2017 you know we learned through hiring guys

all over the nation that if we found a highly certified highly

trained guy he was just better and I'm not just talking about he was just better to deal with uh I'm not saying

that you know there's not the out there's plenty of outliers guys who are not you know uh how do I say this like

formally trained um they learn from their uncle or whatever so they're not formally trained

but they're awesome there's plenty of those guys don't get me wrong I'm just saying that over the course of

going through this for years now and working with installers all over the

nation the guys who value themselves enough to go through the education process and get the trainings and

certifications that matter to them they're just they they value themselves more we had to pay them more but they

also came through for us in a better situation in a better manner than

someone we were maybe taking a shot on and that's how go career came to be

really I mean once you have that realization

then you put together we decided to put together stuff that that took the two main metrics which is experience and

training and make them work together built an algorithm to give a skill score

and that's that's where that all started so you know value yourself enough to charge appropriately is the bottom line

and that's what Daniel was you know it you know stabbing at I mean you didn't stab at it you shot it with a rifle I

mean you required that you know value what I and I'm not saying

everybody should make the same as what you charge Daniel you you you're a you're one everyone

should just make enough so that way they can run the business that they need to run right

um whether it's the one-man deal or if you have a crew of four you need to be able

to uh all make a living and have a little bit of profit at the end of the

day that way when something happens because not if something happens when something happens you need to have that

cushion for later I wonder if a worksheet or a module that would allow

an installer within go career to like put their

their average production uh and

the product and the price that they charge a yard and then we give them some

expense categories to fill out and it shows them how much they have to install on a daily basis to break even

where you actually see this is what your average taxes would be it's actually the

average uh you know pay you know one helper cost you you know just use

uh Excel King so what's that I said you are the Excel

King yeah we could build a module even uh based on Excel honestly but uh it would

just be a web module that that I don't know something like anyone can just go plug whatever they want and yeah

install our health and give a give a a part to what what discipline so sheet

vinyl how much per yard do you charge XYZ uh do you you know one employee at this

amount um and and fill all that out and then here's what your tax expense is gonna

most likely be now we're not financial advisors or accountants here but you

know you can look at the U.S tax code and obviously it's going to change state by state but from a U.S tax code it's

easy enough to say about what bracket you're in and if you're in the six figure bracket in flooring you're going

to be at a 30 to 38 income tax so you know these aren't

the hard numbers to come up with but then you could see well what I would do is show you like man I'm not making if I

hire a guy the right way I'm not making any money at 12 an hour on cheat vinyl

or you know whatever the number is at 18 now I can make some money I can pay up

pay my guy the way I should pay my taxes you know set a little bit aside for

equipment and and future purchases and build a finance a a tool to help guys be

more financially aware just aware that I can't do it at 12

bucks or I can't do it on carpet I can't install carpet at two dollars have a

quality helper pay my taxes pay my insurance pay my gas pay my truck payment and make a profit to take home

to Mama right uh we have Kendall on Facebook over here

and he says that what he's seen in his career

um as a residential carpet installer is that a lot of the guys now are actually

switching over to hardwood and uh click together plank

and that leaves a lot of the new guys that don't know what they're doing coming in and messing a bunch of stuff

up on the carpet side but it's it's like that

everywhere I think because we see it we see people that have done you know

the even the click together Plank and it's supposed to be a DIY thing but they still don't pay attention to

it's none of it's the you know DIY if you're not gonna follow the instructions

and understand how to uh uh accomplish the

like if it says to leave a quarter inch Gap around all uh immovable you know

vertical objects so door frames and things like this and you don't know how to cut correctly

to give yourself a nice quarter inch Gap around there I mean it's it's the simplest things but

it still takes hand skills to do is my point and a lot of the DIY stuff that's posed as

DIY is straight from the manufacturer I love you manufacturers but you guys publish it that way so that more people

will buy your stuff you know they're not trained so if they have a problem on the job it's most

likely coming back on them because they installed it themselves you will definitely because you find fault in

professional flooring installers installation methods

you're definitely going to be able to find fault in a DIY person so your your

exposure your risk is so low when you when you uh when you advertise a product

is DIY and if it goes wrong no skin off the manufacturer's back really

and that's um the specs are very broad the limited

warranty I mean it doesn't matter you if you they were to go through every single

piece installed they would find flaws in a the most professional of installs ever

I mean come on date well that's my whole point is when you when you have a DIY slated

product that when somebody does it DIY the the possibility of it coming back on

the manufacturer is pretty low because I've been involved with claims and had

to defend claims on guys who were highly certified and we did it the right way

but the manufacturer still I mean this is you know if any manufacturers on here

listening I'm sorry but the first the first plug is to what did the installer

do wrong the product failed what did the installer do wrong and and it's not uh a

real transparent investigation you're looking what what install wise was not

done exactly to the T but we don't get to do that to your manufacturing processes we don't get to go in your

manufacturing plant and say what conditions within the manufacturing

plant were not exactly the way they should be during the manufacturing of this product

so long story short is DIY stuff just what I'm getting at it's just it's

pretty low um risk for a manufacturer and the fact is is most DIY products have some level

of complexity that really requires a pro that's just my opinion I've watched too

many products go in click together oh it looks so easy and then a guy doesn't

know how to even cut in the last piece or he started on the wrong side and started with the wrong start of started

off incorrectly and had to take up the whole area and turn it around and I mean Kendall says that he's seen like a lot

of the customers going to buy their stuff from the box store and then calling you to install it too and it's

like that's where as an installer when because uh

Danny Sherman also says you know you gotta you gotta make a living right it's a give and take to a certain degree as

far as like talking to the salesman and stuff and it's like that too if you sell your own product and someone already has

it but you don't have work that's putting work on the table right but you have to that's when you have to

know your numbers and know all right I'm not making money on the product so I'm gonna up my margins on the install side

in order to be able to still have that little bit of a cushion yeah

you got to know your worth and if if you're a company the supply if you're an installer supplies your own material

sometimes you buy from you know one of the distributors or a box store or you buy it from you know Floor Decor or

whatever and you supply materials sometimes that's awesome but you got to

listen to Daniel if you're working labor only you better you got to make up some margins somewhere

um I would I would just say know your worth and

even with that directive that means guys that are not trained and and don't have

certifications have not you know uh put forth that effort there what they know

they're worth uh as is going to be lower than somebody who's invested several thousand dollars and and a lot of hours

in getting certified and trained so I think it's got to start with getting

your education right I know our education system in America gets a lot of you know brow brow beating but

there's a reason you still start your life as soon as you're basically able to walk and communicate in an effective

manner you're going to school and learning things and I think that as soon as you're able

and willing to start your own flooring installation business

you should start with the basics and go get trained get certified and you know

then you know your worth that you will know your worth better by that and like

I always say get to Convention talk to these guys go talk to some other installers who know their worth and uh

you know know where you can charge um realizing the the uh experience Gap

you know some new sheet vinyl guy should not go to Daniel and say hey man how much do you make a yard and or a foot

whichever way and uh try to make that I mean know your true worth and if you're

just getting going and you're highly certified highly trained you may be a little cheaper than someone's got 20 years of experience but that's okay as

long as you're charging appropriately for the effort and um time and money that you've invested

in yourself I feel like if you got I guess what I'm saying I feel like if you got skin in

the game by spending money and getting educated that you're going to be more apt to ask for what you're worth than

somebody who's going to be reluctant to do so because he knows he hasn't been properly trained he knows he hasn't been

properly educated on those systems um the adhesives the the you know

ambient conditions the concrete substrate conditions you know what is a smooth floor what is a flat floor and

understand all that stuff so there's definitely a lot of moving Parts yep all right guys well we're at the end

here that went longer than I was anticipating with the a little bit uh lower participation this week but as

always a great conversation I hope anybody who's on uh you know learn something if you need anything please

reach out um if you have any questions about training or how to get trained you you're free to shoot me an email Paul at

gocarera.com either one of these guys uh they've always been open to helping

installers become better versions of themselves and uh you know better

installers overall so you guys want to plug your uh best way to get in contact with you

just our first name at you know Daniel or Jose at pfmi dot team for the email

uh local installers actually stopped by here uh I don't want to say too often but

enough to where you know anytime they want to come by it's like doors open come we had someone show up

the other day you know um he had a couple brand new guys and him it's him and his dad and his his

guys came in here and just hey come and take a look at what we got going on take a look at how we uh

kind of train the guys the boxes that we use and also per I I told them I said if you

ever want to bring your new guys here you guys don't you know have some down time bring them over dude you guys are

so awesome I mean I don't know how many people are on the call today but if you don't understand

what that is saying he's these could be somewhat potential uh installers for you

but also potential competition and you're trying to make

the industry better by sharing best practices and showing people how to do things that is fantastic it's the only

way to be better as a whole man the only way yeah well guys thanks again for joining me as

always it was a pleasure it's funny how fast an hour goes when you start chatting and and uh you know talking

about things you're passionate about so I uh appreciate you guys every single week and we will see you guys next week

uh three o'clock Central Time on Tuesday come join us on the Huddle and uh

hopefully we can all help each other to uh you know like we talked on this call improve the end of the health of the uh

industry and specifically the installation um portion of the industry so

signing out thank you gentlemen yeah thank you so much all right have a good one see y