This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose have special guest Kevin Keefe (Regional Sales Manager at QEP) to talk about what role the installer plays in the necessary changes needed for the industry in 2023. We also would like to congratulate our winner for the 2023 Forward Progress Scholarship, Carissa Parr.

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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up everybody and welcome to the

Huddle coming to you every Tuesday three o'clock Central and what we discuss is maintaining

forward progress in your flooring career nice as usual uh most of the concepts we talk

about are applicable and flooring in any business really but we specifically dive

in on flooring as that is our favorite industry so uh this week we get the pleasure of

drawing on our Ford progress scholarship uh which we did in Kentucky

and um so the way we're gonna do this let's see if uh

we can have Ashland uh turn on her video

behind her there you'll see nay all the uh

uh applicants as well as a number next to them next to that that number as you

see there's a small little device in the lower left hand corner there which we

are going to uh draw and that number will coincide with that name and that

will be our winner so we're going to do that here a little bit later and today what we are

discussing is uh the first part to another series which is just what you

want to see in the industry this year what what real concrete change can we bring and

what would we see at the end of this year that would tell us we succeeded in

that objective so this week we're starting with the the installers what I call the foundation of our industry

so gentlemen uh well first off let me

introduce uh Jose and Daniel uh as usual you guys are with us this week uh and uh

Jose you are looking fabulous for having kovitzer so day one day one I'm glad you

still you still made it here um so I thought I'd kick it off with

you know what what can we measure at the end of this year from an installer of

the excuse me installation standpoint uh that would tell us yes we accomplished

that um one idea that has and and something

that's really kind of uh really integral to the way I believe is

training and if we get a um maybe we can get a metric of

how many were were trained last year through the various entities and how

many we get trained this year uh we thought uh that would be a good

metric easy to to measure um I also believe that

the overall average uh hammer rating in go Carrera does where where do we want

that and and it's easy to measure because it's all digital but you know what would the average be and

where would we want that to be um but I think it's all based on training what do you guys uh what would

you guys really love from an installation standpoint what would you really love to see happen this year

I would like to see more people get involved in the training uh just in

general I would like to see the older generations and the kind of uh in the

middle uh installer age group to start pushing the education you know so that

way the that way the education portion doesn't take so long right like some some guys

don't don't get to actually learn to put their hands on for a few years some guys get to do it right

away because they don't have a choice but what if we as an industry were able to uh Advocate together and push push

the envelope as far as getting the awareness that education could

further your career a lot faster in the industry um if you were just to

I know it's like to say but maybe sacrifice a little funds for some trading sacrifice a little time person training to to kind of view the big

picture um that's what I'd like to say I like like to see people view it more for

investment versus a pain in the butt to to get away from from work for a week or

or for a few days that's what I was going to say because we talked about that before about investing in yourself and that's really all it is is

you know you're you said sacrifice but it's really more of an investment right because you're using that money for a

good cause you're you're actually going out and learning I mean like I said man all it takes is that one

thing all you need to learn is one thing to make a make a class worth it

yeah uh why don't you introduce our guests there Daniel we got Kevin from uh Roberts Julie

Pierre Roberts it's both so QEP is the umbrella we have a handful of companies

under that name one of them being Roberts awesome well tell us a bit about about

yourself what you're doing now and kind of how you got in the industry well I'm a sales manager for Robertson

QEP so adhesives tools under the limits um I've been in the industry for over 25

years now 23 years on my knees and four and a half on this side of the business with the manufacturing side

um big and uh training training programs uh educating guys doing a lot of shows around the

country representing our company and the products that we have how to use them

um and also continuing my education uh in the installation world and uh trying

to get more guys involved um you're asking what I'd like to see in the industry what for is to try to come

together to solve the biggest problem we have in our industry and that's lack of installers uh when we were going to be

in a serious problem here coming up if we don't get more people involved and I'd like to see everybody basically that

has an opportunity to take a pledge to to bring one person on this year you know that they uh turn them onto the

flooring industry because we need it this industry needs more people and it's going to take everybody to solve that

problem and I think that would be something I would like to see that's a good one and I want to just say

like getting involved man just in general because if we weren't involved

we wouldn't have Kevin he just showed up out of the blue yesterday like he walked through the door and I'm like what's up

and you know you it's it's those relationships that you can build like that like we didn't know he was coming

by he just looked us up since he was in the area and it's like come on in yeah we met and we met at a you know a

training deal through CFI years ago now and been building that relationship uh

Jose and I have gotten paired up golfing in that uh in that function the last few

years and uh you know I listened to this podcast because of the relationship and

meeting these two and uh I love what you guys are doing and I figured I'm in the

area I better stop stop by especially after our one of your last podcast where you're talking about relationships with

uh whatever and I was on that trying to chime in a little bit on that so you

know I don't want to talk about it I want to be about it and get involved I like that

yeah and that might be our saying for the for the the show here is uh yeah

don't talk about it so bringing one bringing one pledging to bring one person in is an interesting

um interesting way to look at it like you know

what what what does it look like to grab somebody by the hand and take them into

our industry you know what does that look like um it's certainly finding

um people is always tough right that's what we hear a lot but at the same time

if you take that personal um approach with somebody and show them that you actually care about them you

might be able to actually pull that off and and uh you know with the with the installer base that we have uh if each

person brought in one one one individual take him to a show take him to a

conference take him to the CFI uh take him to fcic something it doesn't even

have to be anything big like that like our our local Distributors have open houses take them to an open house give

them that time you know even if it's for an extended lunch on that day to take

them to do something free hot dogs I know from the vendor perspective we do a lot of stuff through

uh our Distributors that sell our products and we'll set up for all day let the guys come in take a look at the

tools talk about the adhesives that we sell uh the benefits of using one product over another but it's it's good

to to bring the guys in it's a small little bit of Education that we can do on a regular basis instead of having to

travel to here or there it's just a local distributor there's always food there's always good conversation and

there's people that good camaraderies people that are involved in the same stuff yeah and coming together and

talking about their you know the issues they may be having the successes they may be having and uh you know how to

overcome some problems and stuff like that that's a good point you know going to these things and Jeremy keeps on

asking if he won but we didn't draw yet so stay tuned Jeremy we're gonna we're

gonna be drawing here uh shortly but you know these local events and actually

getting to know some of the the other local installers because there's a you know quite a few around here that we

don't even know and you know once we do meet some of the the people that we haven't met before they always know our

name even though we don't necessarily know theirs and it shouldn't be like that we should uh actually be going out

in the approaching them and you know just stop in and anyone is welcome to stop in

and that's how we've gotten to know a few of the installers though just you know like Kevin did just pop their head

through it I was like come on in man let's start talking well that's crazy creative recruiting

yeah years ago we uh Daniel started a a page for West Michigan flooring

installers right and we wanted to get everyone together on the same page like just have like a little powwow with

everyone and it just it's just everyone's so busy and so stuck in the moment that it's hard to

coordinate that with that many people but I know that if we were able to do that that would be really a really sweet thing to have just like an installer

type uh meeting with some of the local guys in our area maybe you guys already do it in

your area but just to be able to have everyone meeting and help solve one

another's problems or issues or save uh potential issues from happening right

and I think that that would happen and that's what people don't get is we're not in it to compete with anybody

there's no competition out there we're in it to win it together as a team and I want everyone to succeed I I want

everyone to have success if you look at it from that perspective we're not like you said we're not

competing we're actually there to try and help anyone that that needs it and if that's what this entire thing is

about that's why we started this podcast if we've already been through something that you're going through right now reach out you know we

are we perfect no no one is but if we have overcome something that you're going through right now we want to

we want to be that that medium for you so that way you don't have to struggle through something

well and I think it's important when you start talking about kind of congregating

and and trying to assemble people is not like someone doesn't have to lose

for others to win so I love the approach like like you said Jose and like you

just iterated Daniel that we can all win there's more than enough for everybody it doesn't have to be our our industry

is sincerely plagued with the the um what is that uh

like I forget the term but it's basically fear of me you know fear of sharing like

if someone else's success equals your failure and that's not really the key with FL with installers one of the

biggest problems we have uh as go at go Carrera is companies not wanting to uh

onboard their installers because they don't want other companies to have access to their installers as if they

own them and as if uh that someone else succeeding equals their them not

succeeding and we can all succeed we can all benefit from uh installation and

labor efficiencies which we've talked about before on the podcast and just to reiterate that point it's it's a quick

math and I've talked to multiple people over this but it's more of a thought experiment and it's like if one crew

loses eight hours a week that's two on a two-person Crew That's 16 hours a week

lost and it's reasonable to assume that that happens on a week by week across the industry basis that a crew will miss

out on eight hours worth of work from the job side not job site not being ready the conditions not quite being

there or materials not showing up on time or the GC just isn't ready or the homeowner's just not ready that day and

it gets pushed a couple of days it's reasonable to assume that we lose eight hours for a crew that's 16 hours a week

that's lost per crew now if you just said look let's take that over 10 000

Crews well that's a hundred and sixty thousand hours a week lost which equals 4 000 lost work weeks every week

so we also we have a labor shortage no doubt we also have a labor efficiency

issue where when I when I was sitting if if they can go get get work from

another company to fill their their void in that schedule for two days that's good for everybody you don't lose the

labor hours the sub stays busy and and keeps money flowing and some other company got a job done

that they desperately needed to get done it's really win-win-win there's no downfall to it it's just this scarcity

that's what I was trying to think of it's a scarcity mindset like oh I got to keep my all my stuff here well let's

open our knowledge share our knowledge let's share our

um our Collective experiences and try to help people not make the same mistake so

this year I would love to see you know another good measure is how many flooring failures uh happen that's

measurable some of the stuff that we we may or may not have and I don't know does Roberts keep tabs on uh dollar

figures of flooring failures from installation or manufacturer defect

installation uh issues uh we we don't have any failures

you know of course we do we keep track of everything um you know and not just you know

failures but specific to what products that allows us to make Corrections if need be or to figure out what why that

problem's happening um so yeah we we keep uh a pretty significant log a very detailed log of

any any kind of complaints that come in anything that gets to inspection Point anything that goes any farther uh

fortunately we've been pretty lucky this year not just this year but we have we have very few failures across the

country um so we're pretty lucky on that and things happen that's going to have happen I mean it is what it is a lot of

the failures that I see are usually environmental right I'm going to ask you I was going to ask you that question

from your standpoint and be in a past installer uh I I would assume that you

kind of uh take it we all know there are some manufacturers that really are aggressive against the installer

I'm not going to name it but during the claim process it always tends to be the

installer's fault for some some reason or other uh but you being in your

position and your background what would you say is the number one issue when it comes to fluorine failures

that just from your experience it doesn't for my from my experience I think it's a little bit of a blend

between installer failure and environmental failure and a lot of the

installer failures that I see are directly related to environmental failures that if they were a little bit

more knowledgeable maybe had a little bit more training uh they would have taken the steps to avoid the

environmental failure so as a from a manufacturing standpoint if unfortunately if the installer gets

blamed because of something that he didn't do in that he was supposed to do even though it's an environmental issue

you know it is what it is that's why you know trying to get and gain as much

knowledge in in what you do is so important to be able to avoid the problems that are already there that you

might not know about without the knowledge behind it and how to test for it and how to deal with it

um you know one of the one of the things a lot of guys do will go in with a moisture meter and test you know throw a

cheap moisture meter on the floor and say it's okay well you know the bottom line is that's not the standards right

the standards is you got to do an ASTM 2170 or 1869 those are the only two that

are recognized in the industry correct so yeah and for those who don't know

1869 is the calcium chloride and 2170 is the ensued to the the

relative humidity test of the concrete which one is the one where you duct tape a piece of plastic through the floor

I don't know anyway but I mean it's just a fact of knowledge right the more knowledge you have the less likely you

are to have a failure and I mean and that's with anything in life but especially with fluorine and you know

the fact is there's so much going on on every job is so different there's so many things you have to be aware of you

know the more knowledge that you have to be able to avoid the problems on your job site is crucial so you know I push

everybody for education I mean myself I'm still going through education I've got one in February that I'm going to

um constantly things are changing in this industry you've got to constantly be on top of it

um standards are changing products are changing so without this knowledge you run into some of these old school guys

or well I don't do that I don't need to do that they're still rematching their trials the same trial that they've had

yeah and the problem is the problem here and sometimes and you forget it you know so even going

to get refreshed in your head about stuff that that you may have been doing here that you're not doing on a regular

basis that kind of got you know that that fell out this side of the head just hearing it again talk this is why it's

so important to get together with other people in your field to discuss this stuff because there's stuff that can be reiterated into your head that you might

not have been doing that you might know and you just forgot to do or you hear one Horror Story you know from one guy

and you're like man I better start doing my moisture test and not just one here I got to do one for let's say every unit

in in a complex right that's another thing guys don't know well I did a moisture test

on the second okay what about the what about the sixth seventh eighth floor right well you know it was fine down

here I mean it's so there's really a lot that goes on and a lot you can pick up from just talking with other guys and

yeah points out that they what we have we

preach every week is getting trained and and and the key here is it's not just

hand skills right you're talking about intellectual property really is understanding why things uh need to be

done the way that the industry has stated per industry standards so why do we do it that way and one of the things

that maybe a pet peeve of mine is when I hear somebody say I've done it this way for 20 years or I've never had a problem

with it well you also probably never laid this recycled backing so it's

probably best that you understand what this particular piece of material how it

has to be handled and treated to effectively end in a good quality installation the last the expected time

for the end user yeah do you agree with that CJ do you agree with that yeah CJ is pretty quiet

um yeah yeah so we got CJ with us today um from fcica uh for the drawing and uh

so I'm sure she's excited to find the winner as much as we are so uh CJ

welcome to say about um the technology right because it's not

only the technology and the products that you're putting down it's the technology and the concrete what are

they putting in the concrete all this stuff adds up and if you're not you're if you're not trying to keep track of

everything that's changing then you're just gonna end up failing anyways because I mean just just look at the the

buckets of adhesive they're sometimes will will spread a bucket one week and

then the next week then you read the book it the notch sizes change well this change for a reason so yeah and it does

change it does change I mean we're we're can you talk through that a little bit of of how or at least why some of this

stuff changes because I think it's important for installers to understand that regardless guys and and and men and

women in the end in the field in the uh installation Cruise

just because a a ultimately you have to take

responsibility I guess what I'm trying to get to like you have to understand what you're putting down and understand

the proper Notch the the you know when to roll it how long to flash all of

these things that go into it but I thought if you could share kind of what what what happens when you do change say

a trial size or or whatever what what happens there are you testing in the in the

so we do a lot of inside testing ourselves um in our Labs but we also send a lot of

stuff out for extensive outside testing by organizations as well um some of the changes that might

present itself are you're most likely not going to hear about unless you pull out that data sheet and read it again

because it might change as of a week ago and those changes come up because new

products come out and they just because you say it's uh you know we we say that this glue is okay to use with a WPC well

you know within the last six months you might see different backings starting to come out and we get these products sent

to us to specifically test so they can be put on our adhesive can be put on their data sheets as okay to use with

our product and then sometimes we might find a problem down the line and then we have to reevaluate the entire line of

wpcs for instance just using it as an example so you know we're constantly testing all new products that are coming

out with the help of the manufacturers of the flooring themselves and and you know things come up that we find down

the road that you know might we might have a product that might work better um so so what what does the how do you

communicate that so on our end we have uh on our website

you can always go on our website uh robertsconsolidated.com every adhesive that we carries on there

all of our safety data sheets are on there all of our technical data sheets are on there specifically what you can

and cannot use it for trial notches coverage rate open time work time it's

all on there we make it very easy because what the bottom line is the number one tool that every installer has

with them on every job site is their phone okay so to try to make it as easy as possible that you can pull your phone

out and take a look at that product um you know I when I was installing we

we were dealing with flip phones it flip phones and beepers right so things have

changed a lot but a lot and they've made it a lot easier so my my advice to any installers before you go out to that job

the night before to spend 10 minutes and read up on your technical data sheets of the products that you're putting down

and make sure that when you go in the next day that you're not having a second guess yourself and and you know what

you're doing to make a more efficient day because that's where the money is at it's efficiency we were talking about it

yesterday when I was in here about you know how you can make so much more money being a more efficient installer so this

will make you more efficient uh nobody you know it doesn't matter how much you make on that job if you got to go back

and redo the job or pay for that product and again things change on these data

sheets we we want to give as a company give you the knowledge to do the job right

um and we hope that you guys are are following these instructions and everybody knows if you don't follow the instructions anything can happen I mean

we see them every day on social even when you do follow the instructions anything can happen anything can happen

you never know covered right if you have the knowledge you have the best uh chances of a

successful install yeah so story time I had a project uh back in 2016 that had a

claim on it and it had a it was an underlayment uh a from foam products

and uh it's called silencer and it has one side that has a film on it and one

side that does not and the installation struck instructions within the rolls

was different because they had changed their install instructions from film

down to film up so we installed the project film up per

the most uh uh you know relevant and recent installation instructions which was on

the website the role actually had the wrong install instructions so what what you just said

about knowing ahead of time looking it up on your phone or you know popping out the laptop and looking it up had we not

done that we would have installed it incorrectly in fact we got called on it

and they were like you're installing this wrong and we're like no we stay up with the industry standards uh on the

website so we always search for the most recent and relevant data uh install data

and so we were able to prove that yeah look go to the website look here it's newer and this is the correct way to

install it of course the manufacturer backed us up on that but the key here is knowing what you're doing and staying

keeping your the knowledge so that you do install it correctly and even then like you said we have a very complicated

industry with the environmental concerns and job site conditions and all this

stuff in the installer uh installation quality and and their skills and and

knowing their skill level but all that being said being being uh diligent in making sure

that you know what you're installing when you show up to the job adds to that efficiency you were talking about

earlier yeah make sure you do it before you get to your job you don't want to worry your customer when you're here

I do it anyways I just learned you know you know I got a question I wonder and I

just thought about this I wonder if there's a way to pull up like a chart over the last 20 years for some very

common adhesives or materials where the specs have changed uh you know like

where what year and what were the changes from solvent to water base and and and why those were changed right

like the science behind it I wonder if there's a way to to get that so that way um we can get a visual to some of the

installers or even myself so we can see who what when and where and when the changes made and how grouped together

some of those changes were um that's so large because you're talking

about all the Recycled backings on carpet tile yeah just a general language the lvts or whatever but the big numbers

of like when solvents were taken out by the EPA and you know all the

manufacturers had to scramble to try to create an adhesive that would hold our floors down

um and we went through a hard time I mean if you you guys were around you remember that I mean I was around when

we took solvents out and uh it was it was not fun and in the carpet World

they also introduced unitary backing about the same time so now we have a

very hard product to install that needs a lot of adhesive and a lot of grab with

um with adhesives that were just being formulated to uh abide by the new EPA

laws so that was a tough time to be an installer because I remember at one point the notch trial

for unitary backing was doggone near the same size as your v-notch uh ceramic

tile not uh trial it was damn near the same size it was so much glue

trying to keep your adhesive from squirting between your seams and such and it was a nightmare do you remember

that back in the oh mid late 90s

you guys I was 98 I was 98 I started 98. all right well yeah so it was uh but but

that's that's what we're getting at here is staying up to date you know you may have done it the same way for 20 years

and it succeed the problem is the materials have changed and they continue to change these guys are always trying

to find the most efficient product to help you be a great installer uh and I'm

speaking these guys I mean Roberts and and other adhesive manufacturers are are working hard to create great product

that makes yeah more efficient and better we missed the monobot error the mono

Bond we heard all about it from a couple of the same guys but model bomb this model bond that we missed that era I'd

like to add too you know keep your ears out for industry changes too because if something changes uh in the industry as

far as regulations of what can and cannot be done or what can and cannot be used uh when those changes happen to be

aware that you know the manufacturing term adhesives are going to probably change to adapt to that as well so it's

another thing to look out for when when you're talking about changes in technical data sheets too yeah and I

would add that you know there's organizations out there that have webinars and such that address a lot of

this I mean scic is one of them they have a monthly they have more than a monthly but they have webinars very

often that address some of these issues when there's a major change in the

flooring industry like they they will have a webinar about it so when you remember you can go back and re-watch

them yeah so you know join the fcica get involved I know it's several hundred

bucks and it may seem like a lot of money but at the end of the day one failure

averted you know saving yourself from one failure pays for that tenfold so

um I would love to see installers invest more in themselves this year that's what I would love I guess at the basis and I

don't know how we you know or measure that metric wise but overall

being more uh informed and better trained more tuned into the industry

like you're talking about where where you know when there's a change and you know uh and you can have

faith that the industry like there there are mechanisms out there to keep you informed you just gotta plug in and be

part of the industry not just hey I install I go home and I that that's it that's treating it almost like a hobby

treat your career like a doggone career and stay informed and stay plugged in and stay trained I mean look at

everybody on here everybody we've talked for for uh

doggone how many what episode we on 41 30 something weeks we've talked about

being trained like ever almost every episode we talk about making sure that

you're you're uh participating in the in the industry training and a lot of this can can uh keep you from making those

mistakes so yeah I think talking about the fcica is a good spot to actually do

this drawing what do you think yeah I think we are at that time so what we're gonna do now uh first off I want to

thank everybody for joining us today and remind everybody that uh what we're

drawing for today is the fcica uh

stem program it's the Ford progress scholarship uh sponsored by go Carrera

and we are going to draw the winner today so we're gonna I'm gonna uh mute myself here and turn it over to Ashland

to um do the drawing so

of course CJ she's just listened to us the whole time great conversation so you guys do a

great podcast do we have any suspenseful music

you could sing it yeah

everybody's muted I'm not muted

oh no controversy technical difficulties

okay sorry I've been over here talking to myself I apologize I don't know if you guys heard that so Carissa parr's

our winner and um we'll be shooting you an email

Carissa with the instructions on how to take advantage congratulations has been going on for uh what a couple of months

we've been uh going through it I want to thank everybody for

um submitting and uh getting involved and hopefully uh we can do this a few

more times over the next year and I want to thank the fcic for joining us today thank you CJ

um and uh yeah you got anything Stacy

um no just thank you very much go Carrera for doing this scholarship we appreciated the industry appreciates it

so that we can get more um certified installation managers out there um we the Sim program I know you guys

have been talking about it but um and training and everything but it's the only training program for the

installation manager process so it goes um from when you receive an estimate all

the way through like closing out the job and then there's even a claims module at the end as well so

um it definitely helps with planning out jobs um and obviously project management so

we appreciate your support and our um it's offered online so this um who did

you say won it again Paul Carissa Parr great so Carissa can um do it she can

become a Sim online or she can become a Sim at one of our in-person three-day system programs and we are just about to

release um we have an upcoming program February 21st through the 23rd in Charlotte North

Carolina um and then we'll have a few more throughout the year as well so in person

is great because it adds that networking component um Jose did it in person when he became a Sim

um but it's always available online too because sometimes that just works better for people being able to do it you know

at your own schedule in your own pace sure can I ask you a question CJ

um obviously it's called Sam which is certified installation manager but there

would you say there's a lot of value to installers who've been around uh maybe

running several Crews or several people there there's some value a lot of value

there for the installer as well is that yeah absolutely so especially if you

have multiple Crews and you're working on multiple projects anytime you're managing multiple projects

um I definitely think that this is beneficial for you for an installer and it's also a

really great next step in your career path so um for any installer if you want to you

know follow a career path and stay in the flooring industry becoming an installation manager is definitely the

great next you know great next step for that so um yeah and then there's definitely

brings awareness yeah for sure yeah we've talked over

um over several podcasts about the fact that that understanding what

companies are being taught through the Sim program is by itself really valuable

for you to understand why decisions are made within a company that you might be doing business with you may be doing you

may be a stub working for perform with preferred flooring well you can kind of understand if you've went through it why

Jose may make a decision or or um you know set a job up a certain way

that you may not agree with but this is why he does it and so there's just a lot

of benefit I think to anybody in the flooring industry to become a Sim but

um I don't want installers to feel like it just is uh installation manager position it it is but like you said it's

a good uh next step for uh furthering your career but it's also just I think is going to make you a better installer

absolutely cross training is everything right and there you go these three but especially in flooring so

awesome go ahead that's kind of what I was gonna get into as well because it's like you

know what what can the installers do the installers can try and actually you know

talk to the sales people or you know their project managers to to kind of see what they go through on a daily basis so

they it's not it's not so far separated because you look at these groups and it's always

like salesmen are only thinking about one thing and installers are only thinking about one thing and it's like

how do we bridge that Gap so everyone can actually agree on something other

than we need more installers yeah it brings perspective and it definitely helps open up that line of communication

right like from an installer perspective if you're an installer you take a SIM program it it gives you insight as to

what the sales person or the sales team has to go through and what they're looking at to come up with a final

number or come up with a schedule for the installer um and for the management or the sales

team it gives them perspective from the installation side as to what type of problems the installers are facing on

projects on job sites so it helps them understand what to look for to help

mitigate that before the project starts it's about being proactive not reactive right being reactive sometimes it's

already too late but but if you can be proactive and eliminate some scenarios before the project starts before it gets

out of hand or um make corrections to some pricing um on on the next couple of projects and

let that pricing evolve to where it needs to be so it's profitable for the company whether their installers are

hourly or for both the subcontractor and uh the the sales team involved there's there's a lot more to it than just

getting a little more knowledge it does bridge that Gap and that's what's awesome about some program

well there we go bridge the gap with sin all right guys well hey everyone I

appreciate you joining us today uh again I want to congratulate Carissa on her on

her uh Sim congratulations in there so uh that's really awesome and um we will

be back here next Tuesday as well so we're going to continue the series about

what we may want to see uh what's next week so it's manufacturers and Distributors

so we have some of the things that we want to see

from them and uh just to Prelude that a little bit I think it's really getting uh you have been involved with plenty of

installers but from a a big picture manufacturers understanding

um how important it is like they'll say it's important to train but

what what are we doing as an industry to make sure from a manufacturer side to

make sure that the installer touching your goods and putting it down is trained how do we know and how can we

make sure we know and then What mechanisms can we use to help keep track

of that and um you know there's a lot of I think there's a lot boiled into the

manufacturer side and what they can do to help the installation community and and thus I believe it's the foundation

of the flooring industry is the installer so um if we build that Foundation strong this next year we can look at some

prosperity and um you know we just all got a band together guys again on the

podcast go to shows uh you know get involved um and uh email any one of us if you

want to know how to do that so I wore my my ties a competition shirt today because Kevin's going to be competing

this year what's that Kevin's going to be competing in the carpet category this year so

I had to where where my competition shirts to tune in tune in let's see what happens right it's gonna be somebody

they have carpet tile there this year [Laughter]

well awesome Kevin well good luck and we'll see you at Tice I appreciate it thanks for having me on guys all right

thanks everyone