This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose look back on changes they have witnessed, and how they changed the industry over the years.

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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

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https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up everybody welcome to this

week's huddle

we're coming at you every Tuesday

um to discuss maintaining forward

progress in your flooring career

really I say this every week it's really

most of this is applicable to any

business but um fluorine's what we're in

and what we care about deeply so

we're here to help uh hopefully we get

some participation this week a little

bit of uh comments uh or questions but

kind of round out some of the topics

we've had previously we are we're going

to be talking about things that have

really changed the industry this this

this huddle

um

so join me as always Mr Daniel and Jose

appreciate you guys thanks for thanks

for always being here

so this week

it may not uh exactly

you know mean what what the the title

may not uh resonate exactly but let me

break it down I figure there's some

you know pretty big changes that

happened in the industry uh bring up

some of those there's been huge product

changes

um and as well as some reputation or

overall just being a floor contractor or

a floor installer change so what I mean

by that is so from an industry

standpoint and I'll look up at my board

here and there because I took some notes

uh

sub

Contracting uh so subcontract installers

they've been around for

for decades and decades and decades

however they really took hold and

started gaining you know

um more attention meaning flooring

contractors or flooring companies

started using subcontract labor really

heavy in the 90s

and all the way through the 2000s to

today I've quoted this before but

depending on which

um

uh study read up to 87 percent of all

flooring

Nationwide is installed by independent

subcontract installers

so that was a that's a huge change

because you went from employee

installers uh you know paid by the hour

or uh sometimes still by the piece but

the point was they were employees

um under the control of a company so

what that means is the company would

make sure that they had the highest

training employees right I mean you

wanted the best installers you sent them

to training uh

and then you had an apprenticeship or a

training program within your company and

those uh Apprentice programs and

training programs you know you were able

to bring in new blood get the new blood

with the old blood having a four-year

Apprentice program for them and then

produce another installer on the back

side of that once you the subcontract

um

storm came

now the subs are responsible to get

themselves trained to make sure they're

up to date on product knowledge and all

that stuff so that's a big Dynamic

change I'm not you know voting uh one

way or the other I think there's a good

uh case to be made for subcontractors

and a good case to be made for employees

uh I don't think it's either or I think

it's both but it was certainly when when

more work started getting done by uh

third-party installers subcontractors

versus employees I think that's a pretty

major major change that also impacted

the way we train our installers versus

employee trained installers and

subcontractors

um I obviously that had a big impact

talk a little bit about Labor shortage

um you know aging out of the installer

that's more today's pro

um problem I I mean it's been a problem

for a lot of years but the the pimples

just turned white we're really feeling

it now

yeah it's like it's just turned white

though

now that now's when the problem's here

so I guess

we can discuss this a bit but is it too

little too late I know a lot of people

are doing a lot of stuff in our industry

trying to solve this problem but

um you know no offense to anybody

working on this problem but it feels

like we're behind the curve like this

type of effort by the manufacturers and

and the industry maybe should have and

when I say this type of effort the money

and the focus on solving this problem

probably should have been you know 15

years ago

um as opposed to you know the last five

years just my opinion uh then I had some

product stuff you know large format Tile

For example you know

I I remember in 95 when I first started

the biggest tile you'd see is an 18 by

18 tile like

there were probably bigger ones but in

general 12 by 12 and 18 by 18 being the

biggest now we have Gage porcelain

panels that are four foot by ten foot so

that changed for everything from the

tooling to the training to

site conditions the whole deal

um

water soluble adhesives and you know

when the EPA took our solvents out

um we've been around long enough you've

had some failures from that I certainly

did

um you know that the

the chemical industry to me just over

the last three or four years has really

started making

great adhesives again

um it took a long time to get the

solvents out and formulate something

that's water soluble that

can

still perform on concrete that has water

in it so

um

and then the new arrival of lvt

you know 15 years ago or so mtico was

about maybe 20 years ago but yeah Antigo

were the own that was it yeah that's

pretty much Antico and now everybody and

their brother makes an lvt uh so and and

such a large percentage of the flooring

installed today from a square foot

standpoint is lvt

um it's it's replaced a lot of tile

where typically tile would go uh or

hardwood

um so yeah

and then floating floors in the

commercial Arena

um you know Wilson aren't uh

used to make a uh laminate floor with a

plastic core for the commercial world uh

back in the late 90s early 2000s uh time

frame and they quit doing that and had a

lot of problems with it and now you know

it's pretty common place to have a click

floor and a commercial building if it's

the right condition so anyway uh last

thing last kind of topic within this uh

overarching topic was uh our reputation

an image as a as a flooring installer

versus I've heard Mark with the uh with

the ntca talk about these Glory Days

back in the 30s or 40s or 50s or

whatever uh time frame when

we were highly respected when we walked

on job sites I seen some old photos he

shared of guys like dressed

to like for construction it they were

dressed to the tens you know they had

the tie I mean they had like a work suit

on it was it was uh pretty interesting

but back we should bring it back let's

bring it back bring back this the work

suit why not

but point being back then uh it was a

respected trade uh I feel like you know

some of that got lost I know that all of

us here and probably anybody even tuning

in to this this uh huddle

um

you know would love to see the not only

participate in making that change back

at least in some uh some degree get back

to that respect and the understanding

that we're skilled Tradesmen and it

takes a lot of effort

um a lot of uh knowledge a lot of

training a lot of skill to effectively

do this this business so that's kind of

the overarching

um thought process I had here what are

your guys thoughts on like you know

industry subcontract anything else that

you guys uh can think of that really

brought major change to the industry and

what are your thoughts on it well I I

wrote down a couple things right here

too it's like uh one of them was before

my time right when when everything kind

of hit or

around that time but

um I wrote down a couple categories I

got Health tools materials and image

kind of what we kind of talked about a

little bit there but the one that hit us

personally since we started was like uh

when silica when this those standards

came out and everything switched over we

kind of got a little bit of a taste of

what

the generations before us might have had

with asbestos you know we kind of got

hit with a take care of it or else we

will kind of thing that's a good point

yeah that silica thing came on like a

freaking hurricane

yeah we were uh we're not in a good spot

at that time I guess but

we actually made a lot of changes before

everybody else did and they everyone

around the area kind of followed suit I

mean it's not we don't intentionally we

didn't intentionally do that but we

started making every contractor aware

that we were 100 silica compliant

um Daniel went above and beyond to make

sure we have the documents the paperwork

like everything that our government was

requiring of us at that time and and now

it's just standard practice so yeah

yeah that silica thing was tough

I we were behind the curve for sure I

didn't know how serious it was if I'm

honest when it came out and you hear all

the talking and I thought yeah it's just

all these major pool manufacturers

trying to sell more tools some different

things same thing same thing we were

like ah whatever we breed dust every day

right one of those people and then you

actually learn about it it's like yeah

it's

you got to change your mindset it's not

like I've already done this and I'm fine

it's I need to protect everyone that

that's working here and on the job site

so we have to do it yeah yeah once you

read into it you realize

um

there is some damage that stuff can do

and protecting you and your employees

and other and other you know job site

workers or what have you is

the responsible thing to do but I would

be lying if at the beginning I didn't

call

I'm not scared I'm well yeah we do a lot

of Hospital work too so it's like always

you know talking to infection control

and you don't realize the numbers of how

many people actually get sick or die

just because there's dust that you're

kicking up just the particulate that's

in the air yeah it was

so it was a little bit easier for us to

justify it right but even did you talk

to uh did you guys actually talk to

medical professionals at the hospital in

that regard or was it just at one of the

hospitals we worked for we infection

control is there every single job she

comes by every single day so we talked

to her quite a bit

yeah she's been happy with us she's been

upset with us we've been on both sides

of that coin but it's hard to be perfect

all the time so

um accidents happen and sometimes uh

you don't think about construction for

two weeks in an area and how much dust

is going to

to get out there even if you are using

the systems it's it's not 100 foolproof

but well I like the way you can kind of

compare it to asbestos maybe not to the

same degree but it's the both of those

were major industry you know I'm glad

you brought that up because I mean

asbestos is a wonderful Building

Material

unfortunately it causes cancer right and

uh documented as such I think it's the

mesothelioma that it uh type of cancer

that it actually causes right

um yeah pretty big industry change we

used a lot of asbestos particularly in

the BCT and

um and it was just VA tile back then but

um

uh the adhesive too you know and a lot

of people don't realize that the tile is

the least you're concerned

from uh adhesive articulate it is the

the bigger piece there's more of it in

there and it's easier to become friable

or to get up in the air

but uh yeah interesting what about

products what's your what's your top you

know few like either headaches you've

experienced I I gotta think adhesive is

on that list but you know what other

product changes has just caused

you know either great

uh change meaning change in a good

manner or just has been a tough one to

deal with here's here's what my thoughts

right cargo tile

it is great but horrible at the same

time because they think that anyone can

just go and install it but

um they don't realize that you have to

treat it like a resilient because

there's that backing on there the

moisture has nowhere to go like broad

blue so

so if you don't treat it like that

you're already setting yourself up for

failure

you know I would add recycled content to

the conversation as well because the

Recycled content and the backings of the

carpet tiles

caused more

personal pain for me

um

because what would happen and has

happened is

you know we have a rule basically that

you remove the we lay on concrete so

basically what that means you go in Tara

brother and carpet or terrible carpet

tile and you're putting down new we

don't just go over what's there we get

back down to concrete we install on

concrete that's our desire now sometimes

budgets different things you gotta you

know get creative do some skim coating

maybe some removal whatever uh to meet

with the client's budget but in general

we want to install on concrete

we have had uh in the past project

managers who

regardless of that being our kind of

company Mantra if they pulled up on a

particular project this happened they

pulled up perfect time

and it had pressure sensitive over old

broadland now this carpet tile performed

just fine so he thought hey it's fine

we'll just put our carpet tile right

back on glue's still sticking no problem

2600 yards completely failed completely

it curled like crazy everywhere so

that's when that's when I

and that was the Recycled backing the

Recycled portion of that backing

like carpet tiles not carpet tiles not

carpetile that each manufacturer has

their own rules and this particular

manufacturer which I'll leave I will not

mention but

they're the Recycled content in their

backing requires like you got to get the

glue off you gotta Pro you got to Prime

the residue

and then you can install their carpet

tile it's very susceptible to take on

and soak up the any chemicals that got

left in that old adhesive and that's

exactly what it did you could pull up a

piece and look at the backing and you'd

see dark spots

and it was a light lighter colored

backing so it wasn't PVC so there's no

uh pla plasticizer migration or anything

like that it was just

it it soaked up something out of that

old adhesive and it turned the backing

dark not black but just dark in spots

all over it and it curled like crazy

and

you know obviously that's a tough lesson

to learn but that that is uh recycled

content in flooring products you know

you gotta deal with those a little bit

different and you really understand what

you're dealing with means reading the

installation instructions for each

product

they make it easy now too because if

you're uh have a lot of

back back in the day there was none of

that it was read the bucket and they

would just and even if the technology

changed the distributor was still

getting rid of all their old adhesives

with the new materials so I mean at SMC

were set up to fail but

if you weren't paying attention to the

specs then well like you said that you

still give an old adhesive right and

that's what something that a lot of

people don't take into consideration too

is

the formulation of adhesive changes over

time and then a lot of people just are

like oh there's pressure sensitive

already down just go right over it and

then that's they got systems out there

now for stuff like that too because so

many failures

well the old adhesive just like you just

said but just to drive the point home

just because it's pressure sensitive

doesn't mean that it works for another

product that requires pressure sensitive

that adhesive if you're replacing it

that for example on this job the carpet

tile was 10 years old

who knows what that adhesive was who

knows how it was formulated

you can't just say yeah it's still

sticky let's put new product over it so

yeah that was another big change and the

water soluble adhesives part you know I

the The Perfect Storm uh when when all

that started happening is they also came

out with unitary backed carpet oh my

favorite my favorite to rip off remember

that how terrible was that right unitary

back glue down you had to use

a special Notch trial that put so much

glue down that putting seams together on

Broad Loom was a nightmare to keep the

the glue from squirting between the

seams

they quit making it because that came

along right about the same time as when

they started taking the solvents out of

the glue so the glue was less sticky and

they were producing a product that

required more adhesion so you have less

adhesion in the adhesives being produced

and a product that requires more

adhesion and I can't I've torn up so

much of what we did and

yeah I hate to say it but it just

bubbled like it would look good you'd

roll it you'd put the right amount of

adhesive down and in a few years it

starts bubbling well

they they have to hot water extract it

that's one of the main recommended

methods of taking care of your carpet

what happens when you have a crappy

water-soluble adhesive today's

water-soluble adhesives are far superior

than when I'm talking I'm talking like

96.

ish time frame

um

you got a crappy water-soluble adhesive

and you're doing hot water extraction

uh that's not a good mix so all that was

uh that that really did change the

carpet side of the industry a lot

and then lvt

LBT the same thing with that one like we

said Antico right we're installing a

bunch of AMT t-con what do you do you

hate the West Side adhesive so what do

they do they come out with pressure

sensitive then you start using it

everywhere and then stuff starts

shrinking and then you realize years

later man

that was that adhesive sure looked good

right about now yeah kind of locks it in

locked it in a little bit better plus

you know Antico made a great product and

they still do like it's still one of my

favorite lvts uh but because lvt blew up

so much

there's lvt you can buy for 50 cents

you know and

it's a it's a six mil or or less wear

layer but you want to talk about

shrinkage and curling or cupping all

those problems

you know that comes because

you start bringing in when

when a market gets hot more and more

manufacturers start making the product

and it gets made cheaper cheaper and

cheaper and it became a product that was

a race to the bottom whereas Antico kind

of had the markets cornered and really

uh made a high quality product and

frankly

I don't see that they ever changed their

their kind of stapled Mainstay product

uh we've done it a lot and it it I've

never had it shrink I've never had

problems with it but there are other

manufacturers out there engineering

Antico around here so when you talk

about how good the adhesive was back

then a few years ago my grandmother

wasn't a home before she passed and it

just happened to be home we did the

floors in a long time ago we went there

and

it stood

the test of time it was still looking

good you know it was custom borders and

all that and it looked it looked really

good for the age and I was very

impressed to not see gaps everywhere you

know yeah a lot of the a lot of those

products are

um and the floating products too you

know that's another waterproof

waterproof flooring you know uh edu the

marketing behind all this waterproof

flooring is

better than what the product itself is

yeah if you drop a cup of water on top

of the floor it's waterproof you get

moisture underneath that floor you'll

find out real quick it's not waterproof

at all like it's only waterproof from

one side

and you got to be cognizant of that we

try to educate our clients on that all

the time and they get frustrated because

all the marketing material

it says that it's waterproof that it's

you know the best thing since sliced

bread and that it won't ever fail

because of moisture or something but you

read the fine print

and you you like we have to to install

it you realize quickly that it's not

it's not the end-all be-all for for for

that scenario I've I've had plenty of

people say well in bathroom just

silicone The Edge yeah well you better

be perfect you better be perfect to not

have one little pinhole anywhere because

the water will find that pinhole and it

will find its way underneath your

flooring and you will still have the

same problem I had to find this way

underneath anyway we just I just had

this conversation on the phone couple

days ago with the client

and it might not have been about the

waterproof aspect but like the warranty

oh this is a 10-year lifetime warranty

you know and they started going on and

on I'm like

you kind of got to read the print a

little bit like you know I'm not a

Salesman I'm talking to you as an

installer this is a limited you know it

you're just reading what you want and it

says limited lifetime yeah read the

actual warranty yeah you said you

definitely got to read into it a little

bit more than that if you want the

literature I'll send it to you but you

know you have to

understand that

they can't give everybody a lifetime

warranty otherwise they wouldn't be in

business right now

yeah so what else uh we we mentioned

image and stuff as well

um you know I mentioned that you know

back in the day we're really

um revered on construction projects and

a lot of times now that's not the case

and like I said I know that all of us

are trying to change that

um but where do you think that went

wrong because it sure seems to correlate

to the time frame when we went really

heavy Subs that's and no offense to Subs

like I was a sub I believe like that's

what go career is built for so like

there's no at least those subcontracts

so yeah no negative there I'm just

stating that that was in that time now

now you have a subcontractor crew you

don't send them to go get trained you

don't put them all through training

that's their responsibility

and a lot of them just decided they they

didn't need to uh now you're several

Generations into it and the guy the

first generation of Subs are probably

fine and so was second because they

learned from these guys that at one

point were trained properly but it seems

like it's slowly gotten

um

it slowly got worse and worse I I go

careers whole purpose is to to turn to

turn that corner but then the

manufacturers they're just trying to

engineer out Talent they're trying to

make flooring products so easy that

anybody can do it and they they have not

succeeded uh they've got a few products

I think that are easy enough to install

like your clicked together flooring

but to do it right and to last that 10

years you still made a pro that's my

opinion I think um

one of the changes that happened was I

think that the market eventually at one

point got flooded with uh the workforce

right like um

Construction in general got flooded and

then like you said it was the training

and education kind of got diluted down

as Generations passed so people stopped

uh

focusing on educating themselves and

becoming more of a Craftsman than just

an installer and I think that's what

what happens is it got watered down it

opens the doors up to let's say more

demographic more different walks of life

in the industry and

um as other trades were on the rise with

the image and the respect because they

were they set themselves apart from

everybody everyone else employing

industry kind of fell behind and just I

don't need a certification to do that

floor I don't need uh to pass an

inspection for this floor you know and

instead of

instead of the industry leaders as in

like manufacturers the top down setting

that standard they just kind of

just let it go it's because our stuff

only gets inspected if there's something

wrong with it

yeah that's a good point you think about

the other trades they're like all right

I got everything set before we put any

drywall up inspect it we don't have the

same thing you know in our industry so

it's it's a lot easier to cut Corners

because you can still make something

look really good initially you know you

look at it oh it's so beautiful and then

you know two months later it's like well

all this has to come up well do you guys

watch any of the DIY uh stuff on TV Like

Home Makeover kind of thing

yeah that's a little bit like there's

different

there's different ones but my there's

another there's a new one out right it's

like the I forget what they call it but

it's basically

going back and redoing what like

flopped flip like bad flips or something

I know really what it boils down to is

DIYs did this flip it looked good while

they did it but now just a short term

later

everything's falling off or having

problems the flooring's failing all

these issues with the plumbing and all

the stuff that they did because the

industry says it's a DIY Thing

it didn't last it didn't last very long

at all and so there's a whole new show

about going in and redoing uh a uh uh a

flip that a DIY guy did uh you know did

on their own

so it's interesting that's my point is

that we are still needing to be trained

to be certified to be informed and

educated on our products to install them

correctly for long term uh performance

of that floor

and that goes with

a lot of the the new tools the

technology the information that's out

there like

there's a lot of things out there to

help people get better if they're a DIY

but there's still a lot of things out

there for us as an industry to to make

ourselves better so we're not losing two

diyers

they do like you said they keep on

engineering stuff to be more user or

installer friendly to to cater to them

and that's why I think uh you know we

have the market where we have it with

you know the the sheet vinyl the

resilient side of it because

there ain't no you ain't DIY in a

flashlight

they have somebody come and install the

vinyl then they're like we don't have

anyone in the wallet well who installed

your vinyl oh yeah but they don't weld

that's amazing to me I mean we have some

guys in-house that we've taught how to

lay the Sheep I know get in it and

that's you know floor prep proper

coverage rolling all of those types of

things even pattern matching and such

but you know welding's at one next step

uh so we'll have another you know you

may have one installer that does but

when you start looking at it from a

subcontractor's perspective one crew

installing another crew coming in

welding that's that's a mess it is yeah

we just I was just on a project last

week where you know we get a call from

someone and they're like hey we just

need someone to come while inside

corners on the flash cove

and I get there and he's like you know

we we hired this other company and they

welded everything and then we were gonna

caulk the inside corners but the owner

was like no and he wouldn't he wouldn't

take the cop so

I went back to the installer and he was

like oh I don't know how to do that so

I'm just gonna leave

that was it that was it

wow okay one thing that changed my my

world and my life from a installer's

perspective was

no one told me about a ride on machine

for Demo Man so the tools from an

installation perspective

no one told me about that when we bought

our first one it was just like it was

amazing

yeah

that that's a whole you got a whole new

life when you jump on a ride on McCain

if you're used to using the idiot stick

to remove VCT or something

the little red shaker box is what we

used a lot before that thing's sucks so

bad I'm surprised you can hear me right

now

yeah

those things that was like running up

the Jackhammer all day yeah

so loud and it didn't do very well

either

nowadays there's you know there's a lot

of great demo equipment wolf has some

really awesome stuff yes they do shout

out to my boy Danny my brother

my twin uh yeah I mean there there's a

lot of great equipment out there now

that um

makes our lives easier that's a big

industry difference I mean

I cannot tell you how much VCT I've

taken up over my life by hand and it's

just not fun no I remember and if you

get on a write-on machine not only are

they very effective they're kind of fun

but I think we kind of got off on a

tangent I think we were we originally

started talking about the whole image

and everything and then where it got off

track and the subcontractors and

um there's just far too many people out

there that don't care about the image

and don't care about the certifications

and stuff like we've been talking about

and it just drags everyone down because

once they start doing that they're also

the guys that are working for a beer at

the end of the day instead of for to

make a career so they drive the pricing

down which in turn makes it harder to be

able to run a business that has

employees where you can offer the

benefits that everyone else is offering

and then focus on the training and have

the dollars and cents needed to invest

into yourself into your guys into your

company well and here's a natural place

for me to plug go Carrera uh I mean the

bottom line is like

you know you just said it uh Daniel the

when you are a company with employee

installers and you're trying to compete

with some guy in a truck that's not

trained not a doesn't value the industry

the way you do

and you're trying to compete against

them

the only the what go career does just

level the playing field so that like

skilled people are competing with like

skilled people so that you're not you

know a three Hammer guy is not competing

with a one hammer guy or a half Hammer

guy for the same work and that's that's

what go career brings to the industry

and hopefully over time here installers

will recognize that higher Hammer rating

equals more jobs and higher pay that is

that is what the data shows us over the

last three years and multiple millions

of dollars ran across the platform is

higher Hammer rating higher pay

and part of that is because obviously

the higher Hammer rated work is more

difficult

takes more Talent takes more skill but

that's that's what is intended I've said

it a a bunch but you don't need a three

Hammer guide to put a carpet tile

vestibule uh you know a vestibule of

walk-off carpet tile land you need

somebody who knows what they're doing

and use the right adhesives and still

have is is educated but not necessarily

the guy that's fully certified and just

kicking kick and tail right

um so getting the right people on the

right project is is kind of the key

there

um so anyway that that's that's our

that's our vision for trying to make

sure that you know like-minded like

skilled people are competing with like

skilled people and not not this guy

that's committed his life to the

industry

thousands upon thousands of dollars and

you know uh tons of hours invested in

his education and his certifications his

or her uh Education certification you

know trainings uh with a guy that

worked for somebody for six or eight

months and this that this is the plague

to me of the industry is the guy that

worked for somebody for six or eight

months and then goes out thinks he's an

installer and starts you know starts his

own subcontracting company and you can't

tell from Adam you don't know if he came

and sat across from you he watched his

boss do it he knows the name of the

tools you question him he seems

confident or she seems confident and you

uh if you give that person a chance

um you better have wonderful oversight

I've made that mistake I bring up a

particular project all the time where a

birthing unit we were doing that the guy

sold me I thought he knew what he was

doing and it was very evident as soon as

our install manager got on the job and

said

yo this needs torn out before anybody

else sees it

you know and we did we tore it out

immediately but I'm not gonna lie we've

been there this is uh Mr promise he used

to be Mr promise the world I like to say

oh yeah oh yeah we could do that and

it's like what is going on and he's like

I I believe we can do it and figure it

out

well part of that we we still ahead of

time educate ourselves as much as we can

before we start doing that and then you

know when you have means you can't if

you have the intent of going and getting

the knowledge you need once you land it

I remember my first protect all job I

wasn't certified and I had no idea but

as soon as

I'm sorry Factory trained uh I we we

hadn't been to the training but I knew

for a fact if I won the project I would

send guys to go get trained and and we

did that so that's not bad but I'll tell

you what is bad is if you say you can do

something you don't go get the training

then you go try to do it and you

let me change that word mess it up to

the point

where it's not recognizable as the

flooring it was supposed to be

and let me go back to this promise to

the world thing

um

I was just always confident in our

ability to be able to to manage that

test and get it done

um and I was always political in my

delivery hey you know what that's not uh

what we specialize in but I I feel is

very similar to this right here

so I'm pretty sure that we can get it

done for you no I never said do it right

number seven be perfect you know I was

very political about it but we I would

force us into

hey if you look at it I forced us to

start reading and paying more attention

to everything to start learning about

everything about it it was well look

that's what we're both here I I

there's not I'm no different when I was

when I was subcontracting literally if

it was a floor that could be installed I

remember my first wool carpet job I had

no right doing that job

had no right uh luckily I had some

mentors around at the time that were

willing to help me out and and make sure

that project went well and I learned a

lot and you know continued to learn but

um yeah we all uh get in those scenarios

because you don't want to turn work down

but just have the intent of going and

getting the training I'm trying to save

you from what I did I don't want you to

go through what I've been through and

that's the whole purpose of this huddle

is like maybe you'll hear something like

you know Jose saying saying that and if

you've done that that's that's fine if

you have the intent of going and getting

the training necessary or at least the

education necessary to install that

product properly but uh without the

intent of doing that you can get

yourself in some pretty deep Waters and

I have with us we're first generation

too so a lot of people you know when

when we go to the conventions and stuff

they're always asking who'd you learn

from who'd you learn from it's like

by messing up yeah basically or going

back I had the

let's call the luxury of coming

Scholars and fixing unsatisfactory work

let's just call it that so I had to

reverse engineer and then put it back

together and that's when I

started finding out the do's and the

don'ts and

it's amazing what you can learn when

you're fixing other people's stuff yep

now we just got to fix the industry man

we just got to try to figure it out well

you know just keep taking stabs at it

every week here and and you know I know

you guys and uh okay

and well we as well as you guys don't

know how to say that properly there but

uh the point being is getting involved

um we did all the last week that's why

about being involved and where you can

get stay up to date on the industry well

that's kind of that this is showing you

why right here is all the changes

everything that happened in the industry

really required for you to be part of it

to stay in touch and and and know the

new products know the new tools I mean

in heat welding the different Groovers

and and

different heat welding tips and all of

that stuff that I mean you you could you

could be an expert in that alone I do

when I do classes I estimate I I carry

probably around twenty five thousand

dollars worth of tools to these classes

his lunch box

I mean it's it's definitely an

investment right but these tools are

12 years old now and they're still going

strong you know you got to take care of

your investment your Investments take

care of you yeah take care of your tools

guys there's another

Pro tip clean your patch trial off and

your bucket out before the pet your

patch dries

Torres on Facebook right now he said

every time he sees new wolf products

gets them all excited

[Laughter]

Danny I'd love to hear that well new

tools are I mean that's a guy's

playground you know a flooring

installers playground I should say I'm

like you get a new tool in some one of

our hands and we want to mess around

with it I got a brand new uh Power

groover this week

so uh that you know I was like let's see

what this thing can do it's

like a part of an airplane it doesn't

look like our old one our old one the

the

um blade would not engage anymore

uh yeah the

I think the motor

where it attaches to the blade I think

those bearings went out on it basically

we didn't have time to try to fix it so

we bought a new one but you know you get

a new tool in and we started grooving

stuff that uh just because right just

because

GTI Max for the fun of it even one of

the cordless ones no I didn't get a

cordless one

we got a leister so

they got a cordless one too

I I uh if I did all the personal tool

purchasing that might be uh you know I

might have investigated that a bit more

but our our uh install manager does most

of that so

but at the same time if you have we had

about a thousand foot to weld I I do you

obviously have a a battery powered one

or do you guys

um we have one it is it does not belong

to us gotcha does it last a long period

of time we have not even got a chance to

use it yet I can't wait to hear

it was a a hey we want you guys to use

this tool

and it's been sitting on the shelves

because we haven't had a job to use it

on yet oh

more or less I want to say when they got

sent to us is more or less a prototype

check this out with what improvements I

mean it's on the market now but see how

cool that is just being who you guys are

you get opportunities to mess around

with stuff probably no one else has even

messed with yet

fun that's it's exciting what about the

stubby let me give a plug for the stubby

tell me about that

um

um so first of all it's

it's a great roller right I actually

only started selling them because I

purchased them from the manufacturer and

started using them once I use them on a

job I said more people need to use this

yeah so Game Changer guys yeah like I'm

not selling it to make a bunch of money

I'm selling it because people should

have it in their toolbox

and uh you know I got him from his name

is actually Daniel too in Australia

and you know we communicated and he I

purchased him he sent them over

I fell in love and it's actually

pretty much one of the only rollers that

we use now from the toolbox it's it's

the number one go-to roller it's it's so

versatile it's hard not to use it where

can people buy it

you can go to our website preferred

flooringmi.com if that's too long

he said that if that's too long so I

bought the domain pfmi dot team because

that's what we are as a team so I

figured that oh nice that was a good fit

sweet

my pinkies don't work man typing that

long email address to people my pinkies

I get accused of it all the time Stewart

and associates.com

and then I got to tell people how to

spell Stuart because they tried

w-a-r-t and like you guys right right

way

if people are watching this and stuff

right now I actually put on uh right

when we're done here I'll put on a

coupon code

uh we'll do go Carreras since that's a

a big part of what we got going on here

so I'll do a go Carrera coupon code for

uh 10 off awesome

awesome take advantage of that guys

hey I got another uh what about

um

the difference in concrete that I think

that's another big changer I only want

to spend a couple of minutes here that

we have left to talk about it but that's

that's great right especially since we

do resilient and

probably a lot of the hard tile guys

will say it too right when it everything

all the additives that they put in there

makes everything non-porous right away

it just locks that moisture in it's not

going up it's not going down it's just

in that slab and you have to treat it as

a non-porous

so much

more work has to go into it

um we did a job

uh Bronson Hospital and this one just

got finished up last year where there

was a bunch of Nora going down and you

know once we you know those are the

questions you ask up front there are any

additives going in here yeah this

additive is going in here I was told

never to use the name because they'll

sue me

all right I think I know which one one

you're talking about

so there are we were like all right

there has to be a bladder layer and in

order for this you know to hold any

warranties or anything

and they there's so much pushback on

what we thought this was going to save

money and

yes yes and no right like

well there's so much I

I've got some friends in that industry

so I don't want to talk poorly but it

there's a lot of snake salesman or snake

oil salesmen in that deal where they're

like this is your cure-all well there's

always resulting damage from something I

mean be honest when you sell this gonna

create a non-porous lab you may have to

profile your slab to achieve a

mechanical bond with your adhesives out

you know or whatever but it just sold as

this oh it stops moisture and

I think that's even debatable to be

honest but at the end of the day it

definitely causes well all the

manufacturers say no additives no no no

carrying compounds all that has to be

removed and then you put it

intrinsically in the concrete mix

you got problems and then uh I've talked

to uh concrete

because

I've been on the project when they're

pouring concrete you can talk to these

guys they'll and watch them add more

more water to their mix as they're going

on a hot day well then they're adding

you know instead of four and a half to

one or four to one you know it gets up

there at that seven and now you have all

this water of convenience in the slab

and this magical product supposed to

solve the problem

um

I don't know the jury's out on it uh I

know that Lou as well as a lot of other

really highly qualified guys in the

industry state will tell you stay away

tell your tell your concrete uh tell

your GC to stay away from the additives

but they're not going to we we've we've

had the

um situation come up several times and

we just make them sign off because they

don't want to go through the additional

um the additional uh cost that it would

create to make it ready for the flooring

so

do you know do the additives only affect

the flooring is that the only thing that

in fact

manufacturer and everything

else probably why they were

keep it going anyway I don't I don't

think it affects the structure or

anything I think it actually makes it

stronger holding the moisture in because

concrete needs moisture in order to to

stay together it does it needs you know

it needs proper hydration but it really

only needs two to one to properly

hydrate Portland

the problem is you'd only place you know

300 square foot a day

in that condition to pour a 10 or 20 or

30 000 foot slab in a day you have to

have water of convenience which is just

water for the pure purpose of being able

to place the concrete in a quicker

manner but as it dries up you get

scaling if it if they over trial it

there's tons of different problems that

come along with it but

as well as you know a slab that does

this and

uh that was the other issue on this job

was the engineering of everything they

they poured all the concrete and it was

a belly

every 12 feet

yep

so

was that a fun job was that a

post-tension slab or something like that

do you know I I don't know all the

specifics all I know is that I had to

fix it

well welcome to flooring

[Laughter]

what we're here for

well we're running out of time here I

want to thank you again great

conversation I hope some people got some

benefit out of it uh

do we have any uh chats or anything I

apologize but we're we're out of time

this week we got going on some some

Rants and some good stuff but bottom

line is the industry's obviously changed

it will continue to change your job is a

high quality flooring installer stay up

with the times stay involved and be

educated and informed

absolutely

go to go career that did you guys get

that those links up yet to where they

can find some training

yep it's on all the socials sweet and I

believe they're building the page uh now

uh just about done with the page that

will be live on the website so

yeah

okay yep sounds like they got it up is

that on the website yeah

yep sweet then now they got somewhere to

go in order to point them to everywhere

yep go to go career.com go to the

trainings or

um events page and uh check it out and

if you have any

trainings that you want to um

uh you you don't see on there that you

think are valuable please email us at

support gocarera.com and let us know

what the training we'll get it put up

next week there may be a gentleman on

here he's involved with uh fcica and

then doing inspections and stuff

um he was watching the last few and then

I think he's on an inspection today he

wanted to join but I think he might want

to actually come on to talk about what

he's got going on so that'd be great I I

shared with him the link and uh we'll

keep in touch to see how that pans out

for next week awesome yeah I would be

interested to chat with him on his

opinion of should flooring installers

get at at least some level of inspection

training to know what the inspectors

look for I've always thought that might

be you know that would be really quality

information for a guy to know what if

there's a failure what do they look for

right you know what I mean so and then

on the flip side

if you are an inspector and you got

questions definitely call and installer

because we've seen it all yeah yeah in

all of us I have inspectors calling me

just asking me questions like I've never

seen this what are you think and then

seen that plenty of times and this is

what it's from

nice

well he's invited it's awesome and uh we

will see you guys next week and talk to

you guys here in a bit signing out all

right have a good week thank you see you

next week all right adios

all right