The Huddle - Episode 17 - Changes that Impacted the Industry
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose look back on changes they have witnessed, and how they changed the industry over the years.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody welcome to this
week's huddle
we're coming at you every Tuesday
um to discuss maintaining forward
progress in your flooring career
really I say this every week it's really
most of this is applicable to any
business but um fluorine's what we're in
and what we care about deeply so
we're here to help uh hopefully we get
some participation this week a little
bit of uh comments uh or questions but
kind of round out some of the topics
we've had previously we are we're going
to be talking about things that have
really changed the industry this this
this huddle
um
so join me as always Mr Daniel and Jose
appreciate you guys thanks for thanks
for always being here
so this week
it may not uh exactly
you know mean what what the the title
may not uh resonate exactly but let me
break it down I figure there's some
you know pretty big changes that
happened in the industry uh bring up
some of those there's been huge product
changes
um and as well as some reputation or
overall just being a floor contractor or
a floor installer change so what I mean
by that is so from an industry
standpoint and I'll look up at my board
here and there because I took some notes
uh
sub
Contracting uh so subcontract installers
they've been around for
for decades and decades and decades
however they really took hold and
started gaining you know
um more attention meaning flooring
contractors or flooring companies
started using subcontract labor really
heavy in the 90s
and all the way through the 2000s to
today I've quoted this before but
depending on which
um
uh study read up to 87 percent of all
flooring
Nationwide is installed by independent
subcontract installers
so that was a that's a huge change
because you went from employee
installers uh you know paid by the hour
or uh sometimes still by the piece but
the point was they were employees
um under the control of a company so
what that means is the company would
make sure that they had the highest
training employees right I mean you
wanted the best installers you sent them
to training uh
and then you had an apprenticeship or a
training program within your company and
those uh Apprentice programs and
training programs you know you were able
to bring in new blood get the new blood
with the old blood having a four-year
Apprentice program for them and then
produce another installer on the back
side of that once you the subcontract
um
storm came
now the subs are responsible to get
themselves trained to make sure they're
up to date on product knowledge and all
that stuff so that's a big Dynamic
change I'm not you know voting uh one
way or the other I think there's a good
uh case to be made for subcontractors
and a good case to be made for employees
uh I don't think it's either or I think
it's both but it was certainly when when
more work started getting done by uh
third-party installers subcontractors
versus employees I think that's a pretty
major major change that also impacted
the way we train our installers versus
employee trained installers and
subcontractors
um I obviously that had a big impact
talk a little bit about Labor shortage
um you know aging out of the installer
that's more today's pro
um problem I I mean it's been a problem
for a lot of years but the the pimples
just turned white we're really feeling
it now
yeah it's like it's just turned white
though
now that now's when the problem's here
so I guess
we can discuss this a bit but is it too
little too late I know a lot of people
are doing a lot of stuff in our industry
trying to solve this problem but
um you know no offense to anybody
working on this problem but it feels
like we're behind the curve like this
type of effort by the manufacturers and
and the industry maybe should have and
when I say this type of effort the money
and the focus on solving this problem
probably should have been you know 15
years ago
um as opposed to you know the last five
years just my opinion uh then I had some
product stuff you know large format Tile
For example you know
I I remember in 95 when I first started
the biggest tile you'd see is an 18 by
18 tile like
there were probably bigger ones but in
general 12 by 12 and 18 by 18 being the
biggest now we have Gage porcelain
panels that are four foot by ten foot so
that changed for everything from the
tooling to the training to
site conditions the whole deal
um
water soluble adhesives and you know
when the EPA took our solvents out
um we've been around long enough you've
had some failures from that I certainly
did
um you know that the
the chemical industry to me just over
the last three or four years has really
started making
great adhesives again
um it took a long time to get the
solvents out and formulate something
that's water soluble that
can
still perform on concrete that has water
in it so
um
and then the new arrival of lvt
you know 15 years ago or so mtico was
about maybe 20 years ago but yeah Antigo
were the own that was it yeah that's
pretty much Antico and now everybody and
their brother makes an lvt uh so and and
such a large percentage of the flooring
installed today from a square foot
standpoint is lvt
um it's it's replaced a lot of tile
where typically tile would go uh or
hardwood
um so yeah
and then floating floors in the
commercial Arena
um you know Wilson aren't uh
used to make a uh laminate floor with a
plastic core for the commercial world uh
back in the late 90s early 2000s uh time
frame and they quit doing that and had a
lot of problems with it and now you know
it's pretty common place to have a click
floor and a commercial building if it's
the right condition so anyway uh last
thing last kind of topic within this uh
overarching topic was uh our reputation
an image as a as a flooring installer
versus I've heard Mark with the uh with
the ntca talk about these Glory Days
back in the 30s or 40s or 50s or
whatever uh time frame when
we were highly respected when we walked
on job sites I seen some old photos he
shared of guys like dressed
to like for construction it they were
dressed to the tens you know they had
the tie I mean they had like a work suit
on it was it was uh pretty interesting
but back we should bring it back let's
bring it back bring back this the work
suit why not
but point being back then uh it was a
respected trade uh I feel like you know
some of that got lost I know that all of
us here and probably anybody even tuning
in to this this uh huddle
um
you know would love to see the not only
participate in making that change back
at least in some uh some degree get back
to that respect and the understanding
that we're skilled Tradesmen and it
takes a lot of effort
um a lot of uh knowledge a lot of
training a lot of skill to effectively
do this this business so that's kind of
the overarching
um thought process I had here what are
your guys thoughts on like you know
industry subcontract anything else that
you guys uh can think of that really
brought major change to the industry and
what are your thoughts on it well I I
wrote down a couple things right here
too it's like uh one of them was before
my time right when when everything kind
of hit or
around that time but
um I wrote down a couple categories I
got Health tools materials and image
kind of what we kind of talked about a
little bit there but the one that hit us
personally since we started was like uh
when silica when this those standards
came out and everything switched over we
kind of got a little bit of a taste of
what
the generations before us might have had
with asbestos you know we kind of got
hit with a take care of it or else we
will kind of thing that's a good point
yeah that silica thing came on like a
freaking hurricane
yeah we were uh we're not in a good spot
at that time I guess but
we actually made a lot of changes before
everybody else did and they everyone
around the area kind of followed suit I
mean it's not we don't intentionally we
didn't intentionally do that but we
started making every contractor aware
that we were 100 silica compliant
um Daniel went above and beyond to make
sure we have the documents the paperwork
like everything that our government was
requiring of us at that time and and now
it's just standard practice so yeah
yeah that silica thing was tough
I we were behind the curve for sure I
didn't know how serious it was if I'm
honest when it came out and you hear all
the talking and I thought yeah it's just
all these major pool manufacturers
trying to sell more tools some different
things same thing same thing we were
like ah whatever we breed dust every day
right one of those people and then you
actually learn about it it's like yeah
it's
you got to change your mindset it's not
like I've already done this and I'm fine
it's I need to protect everyone that
that's working here and on the job site
so we have to do it yeah yeah once you
read into it you realize
um
there is some damage that stuff can do
and protecting you and your employees
and other and other you know job site
workers or what have you is
the responsible thing to do but I would
be lying if at the beginning I didn't
call
I'm not scared I'm well yeah we do a lot
of Hospital work too so it's like always
you know talking to infection control
and you don't realize the numbers of how
many people actually get sick or die
just because there's dust that you're
kicking up just the particulate that's
in the air yeah it was
so it was a little bit easier for us to
justify it right but even did you talk
to uh did you guys actually talk to
medical professionals at the hospital in
that regard or was it just at one of the
hospitals we worked for we infection
control is there every single job she
comes by every single day so we talked
to her quite a bit
yeah she's been happy with us she's been
upset with us we've been on both sides
of that coin but it's hard to be perfect
all the time so
um accidents happen and sometimes uh
you don't think about construction for
two weeks in an area and how much dust
is going to
to get out there even if you are using
the systems it's it's not 100 foolproof
but well I like the way you can kind of
compare it to asbestos maybe not to the
same degree but it's the both of those
were major industry you know I'm glad
you brought that up because I mean
asbestos is a wonderful Building
Material
unfortunately it causes cancer right and
uh documented as such I think it's the
mesothelioma that it uh type of cancer
that it actually causes right
um yeah pretty big industry change we
used a lot of asbestos particularly in
the BCT and
um and it was just VA tile back then but
um
uh the adhesive too you know and a lot
of people don't realize that the tile is
the least you're concerned
from uh adhesive articulate it is the
the bigger piece there's more of it in
there and it's easier to become friable
or to get up in the air
but uh yeah interesting what about
products what's your what's your top you
know few like either headaches you've
experienced I I gotta think adhesive is
on that list but you know what other
product changes has just caused
you know either great
uh change meaning change in a good
manner or just has been a tough one to
deal with here's here's what my thoughts
right cargo tile
it is great but horrible at the same
time because they think that anyone can
just go and install it but
um they don't realize that you have to
treat it like a resilient because
there's that backing on there the
moisture has nowhere to go like broad
blue so
so if you don't treat it like that
you're already setting yourself up for
failure
you know I would add recycled content to
the conversation as well because the
Recycled content and the backings of the
carpet tiles
caused more
personal pain for me
um
because what would happen and has
happened is
you know we have a rule basically that
you remove the we lay on concrete so
basically what that means you go in Tara
brother and carpet or terrible carpet
tile and you're putting down new we
don't just go over what's there we get
back down to concrete we install on
concrete that's our desire now sometimes
budgets different things you gotta you
know get creative do some skim coating
maybe some removal whatever uh to meet
with the client's budget but in general
we want to install on concrete
we have had uh in the past project
managers who
regardless of that being our kind of
company Mantra if they pulled up on a
particular project this happened they
pulled up perfect time
and it had pressure sensitive over old
broadland now this carpet tile performed
just fine so he thought hey it's fine
we'll just put our carpet tile right
back on glue's still sticking no problem
2600 yards completely failed completely
it curled like crazy everywhere so
that's when that's when I
and that was the Recycled backing the
Recycled portion of that backing
like carpet tiles not carpet tiles not
carpetile that each manufacturer has
their own rules and this particular
manufacturer which I'll leave I will not
mention but
they're the Recycled content in their
backing requires like you got to get the
glue off you gotta Pro you got to Prime
the residue
and then you can install their carpet
tile it's very susceptible to take on
and soak up the any chemicals that got
left in that old adhesive and that's
exactly what it did you could pull up a
piece and look at the backing and you'd
see dark spots
and it was a light lighter colored
backing so it wasn't PVC so there's no
uh pla plasticizer migration or anything
like that it was just
it it soaked up something out of that
old adhesive and it turned the backing
dark not black but just dark in spots
all over it and it curled like crazy
and
you know obviously that's a tough lesson
to learn but that that is uh recycled
content in flooring products you know
you gotta deal with those a little bit
different and you really understand what
you're dealing with means reading the
installation instructions for each
product
they make it easy now too because if
you're uh have a lot of
back back in the day there was none of
that it was read the bucket and they
would just and even if the technology
changed the distributor was still
getting rid of all their old adhesives
with the new materials so I mean at SMC
were set up to fail but
if you weren't paying attention to the
specs then well like you said that you
still give an old adhesive right and
that's what something that a lot of
people don't take into consideration too
is
the formulation of adhesive changes over
time and then a lot of people just are
like oh there's pressure sensitive
already down just go right over it and
then that's they got systems out there
now for stuff like that too because so
many failures
well the old adhesive just like you just
said but just to drive the point home
just because it's pressure sensitive
doesn't mean that it works for another
product that requires pressure sensitive
that adhesive if you're replacing it
that for example on this job the carpet
tile was 10 years old
who knows what that adhesive was who
knows how it was formulated
you can't just say yeah it's still
sticky let's put new product over it so
yeah that was another big change and the
water soluble adhesives part you know I
the The Perfect Storm uh when when all
that started happening is they also came
out with unitary backed carpet oh my
favorite my favorite to rip off remember
that how terrible was that right unitary
back glue down you had to use
a special Notch trial that put so much
glue down that putting seams together on
Broad Loom was a nightmare to keep the
the glue from squirting between the
seams
they quit making it because that came
along right about the same time as when
they started taking the solvents out of
the glue so the glue was less sticky and
they were producing a product that
required more adhesion so you have less
adhesion in the adhesives being produced
and a product that requires more
adhesion and I can't I've torn up so
much of what we did and
yeah I hate to say it but it just
bubbled like it would look good you'd
roll it you'd put the right amount of
adhesive down and in a few years it
starts bubbling well
they they have to hot water extract it
that's one of the main recommended
methods of taking care of your carpet
what happens when you have a crappy
water-soluble adhesive today's
water-soluble adhesives are far superior
than when I'm talking I'm talking like
96.
ish time frame
um
you got a crappy water-soluble adhesive
and you're doing hot water extraction
uh that's not a good mix so all that was
uh that that really did change the
carpet side of the industry a lot
and then lvt
LBT the same thing with that one like we
said Antico right we're installing a
bunch of AMT t-con what do you do you
hate the West Side adhesive so what do
they do they come out with pressure
sensitive then you start using it
everywhere and then stuff starts
shrinking and then you realize years
later man
that was that adhesive sure looked good
right about now yeah kind of locks it in
locked it in a little bit better plus
you know Antico made a great product and
they still do like it's still one of my
favorite lvts uh but because lvt blew up
so much
there's lvt you can buy for 50 cents
you know and
it's a it's a six mil or or less wear
layer but you want to talk about
shrinkage and curling or cupping all
those problems
you know that comes because
you start bringing in when
when a market gets hot more and more
manufacturers start making the product
and it gets made cheaper cheaper and
cheaper and it became a product that was
a race to the bottom whereas Antico kind
of had the markets cornered and really
uh made a high quality product and
frankly
I don't see that they ever changed their
their kind of stapled Mainstay product
uh we've done it a lot and it it I've
never had it shrink I've never had
problems with it but there are other
manufacturers out there engineering
Antico around here so when you talk
about how good the adhesive was back
then a few years ago my grandmother
wasn't a home before she passed and it
just happened to be home we did the
floors in a long time ago we went there
and
it stood
the test of time it was still looking
good you know it was custom borders and
all that and it looked it looked really
good for the age and I was very
impressed to not see gaps everywhere you
know yeah a lot of the a lot of those
products are
um and the floating products too you
know that's another waterproof
waterproof flooring you know uh edu the
marketing behind all this waterproof
flooring is
better than what the product itself is
yeah if you drop a cup of water on top
of the floor it's waterproof you get
moisture underneath that floor you'll
find out real quick it's not waterproof
at all like it's only waterproof from
one side
and you got to be cognizant of that we
try to educate our clients on that all
the time and they get frustrated because
all the marketing material
it says that it's waterproof that it's
you know the best thing since sliced
bread and that it won't ever fail
because of moisture or something but you
read the fine print
and you you like we have to to install
it you realize quickly that it's not
it's not the end-all be-all for for for
that scenario I've I've had plenty of
people say well in bathroom just
silicone The Edge yeah well you better
be perfect you better be perfect to not
have one little pinhole anywhere because
the water will find that pinhole and it
will find its way underneath your
flooring and you will still have the
same problem I had to find this way
underneath anyway we just I just had
this conversation on the phone couple
days ago with the client
and it might not have been about the
waterproof aspect but like the warranty
oh this is a 10-year lifetime warranty
you know and they started going on and
on I'm like
you kind of got to read the print a
little bit like you know I'm not a
Salesman I'm talking to you as an
installer this is a limited you know it
you're just reading what you want and it
says limited lifetime yeah read the
actual warranty yeah you said you
definitely got to read into it a little
bit more than that if you want the
literature I'll send it to you but you
know you have to
understand that
they can't give everybody a lifetime
warranty otherwise they wouldn't be in
business right now
yeah so what else uh we we mentioned
image and stuff as well
um you know I mentioned that you know
back in the day we're really
um revered on construction projects and
a lot of times now that's not the case
and like I said I know that all of us
are trying to change that
um but where do you think that went
wrong because it sure seems to correlate
to the time frame when we went really
heavy Subs that's and no offense to Subs
like I was a sub I believe like that's
what go career is built for so like
there's no at least those subcontracts
so yeah no negative there I'm just
stating that that was in that time now
now you have a subcontractor crew you
don't send them to go get trained you
don't put them all through training
that's their responsibility
and a lot of them just decided they they
didn't need to uh now you're several
Generations into it and the guy the
first generation of Subs are probably
fine and so was second because they
learned from these guys that at one
point were trained properly but it seems
like it's slowly gotten
um
it slowly got worse and worse I I go
careers whole purpose is to to turn to
turn that corner but then the
manufacturers they're just trying to
engineer out Talent they're trying to
make flooring products so easy that
anybody can do it and they they have not
succeeded uh they've got a few products
I think that are easy enough to install
like your clicked together flooring
but to do it right and to last that 10
years you still made a pro that's my
opinion I think um
one of the changes that happened was I
think that the market eventually at one
point got flooded with uh the workforce
right like um
Construction in general got flooded and
then like you said it was the training
and education kind of got diluted down
as Generations passed so people stopped
uh
focusing on educating themselves and
becoming more of a Craftsman than just
an installer and I think that's what
what happens is it got watered down it
opens the doors up to let's say more
demographic more different walks of life
in the industry and
um as other trades were on the rise with
the image and the respect because they
were they set themselves apart from
everybody everyone else employing
industry kind of fell behind and just I
don't need a certification to do that
floor I don't need uh to pass an
inspection for this floor you know and
instead of
instead of the industry leaders as in
like manufacturers the top down setting
that standard they just kind of
just let it go it's because our stuff
only gets inspected if there's something
wrong with it
yeah that's a good point you think about
the other trades they're like all right
I got everything set before we put any
drywall up inspect it we don't have the
same thing you know in our industry so
it's it's a lot easier to cut Corners
because you can still make something
look really good initially you know you
look at it oh it's so beautiful and then
you know two months later it's like well
all this has to come up well do you guys
watch any of the DIY uh stuff on TV Like
Home Makeover kind of thing
yeah that's a little bit like there's
different
there's different ones but my there's
another there's a new one out right it's
like the I forget what they call it but
it's basically
going back and redoing what like
flopped flip like bad flips or something
I know really what it boils down to is
DIYs did this flip it looked good while
they did it but now just a short term
later
everything's falling off or having
problems the flooring's failing all
these issues with the plumbing and all
the stuff that they did because the
industry says it's a DIY Thing
it didn't last it didn't last very long
at all and so there's a whole new show
about going in and redoing uh a uh uh a
flip that a DIY guy did uh you know did
on their own
so it's interesting that's my point is
that we are still needing to be trained
to be certified to be informed and
educated on our products to install them
correctly for long term uh performance
of that floor
and that goes with
a lot of the the new tools the
technology the information that's out
there like
there's a lot of things out there to
help people get better if they're a DIY
but there's still a lot of things out
there for us as an industry to to make
ourselves better so we're not losing two
diyers
they do like you said they keep on
engineering stuff to be more user or
installer friendly to to cater to them
and that's why I think uh you know we
have the market where we have it with
you know the the sheet vinyl the
resilient side of it because
there ain't no you ain't DIY in a
flashlight
they have somebody come and install the
vinyl then they're like we don't have
anyone in the wallet well who installed
your vinyl oh yeah but they don't weld
that's amazing to me I mean we have some
guys in-house that we've taught how to
lay the Sheep I know get in it and
that's you know floor prep proper
coverage rolling all of those types of
things even pattern matching and such
but you know welding's at one next step
uh so we'll have another you know you
may have one installer that does but
when you start looking at it from a
subcontractor's perspective one crew
installing another crew coming in
welding that's that's a mess it is yeah
we just I was just on a project last
week where you know we get a call from
someone and they're like hey we just
need someone to come while inside
corners on the flash cove
and I get there and he's like you know
we we hired this other company and they
welded everything and then we were gonna
caulk the inside corners but the owner
was like no and he wouldn't he wouldn't
take the cop so
I went back to the installer and he was
like oh I don't know how to do that so
I'm just gonna leave
that was it that was it
wow okay one thing that changed my my
world and my life from a installer's
perspective was
no one told me about a ride on machine
for Demo Man so the tools from an
installation perspective
no one told me about that when we bought
our first one it was just like it was
amazing
yeah
that that's a whole you got a whole new
life when you jump on a ride on McCain
if you're used to using the idiot stick
to remove VCT or something
the little red shaker box is what we
used a lot before that thing's sucks so
bad I'm surprised you can hear me right
now
yeah
those things that was like running up
the Jackhammer all day yeah
so loud and it didn't do very well
either
nowadays there's you know there's a lot
of great demo equipment wolf has some
really awesome stuff yes they do shout
out to my boy Danny my brother
my twin uh yeah I mean there there's a
lot of great equipment out there now
that um
makes our lives easier that's a big
industry difference I mean
I cannot tell you how much VCT I've
taken up over my life by hand and it's
just not fun no I remember and if you
get on a write-on machine not only are
they very effective they're kind of fun
but I think we kind of got off on a
tangent I think we were we originally
started talking about the whole image
and everything and then where it got off
track and the subcontractors and
um there's just far too many people out
there that don't care about the image
and don't care about the certifications
and stuff like we've been talking about
and it just drags everyone down because
once they start doing that they're also
the guys that are working for a beer at
the end of the day instead of for to
make a career so they drive the pricing
down which in turn makes it harder to be
able to run a business that has
employees where you can offer the
benefits that everyone else is offering
and then focus on the training and have
the dollars and cents needed to invest
into yourself into your guys into your
company well and here's a natural place
for me to plug go Carrera uh I mean the
bottom line is like
you know you just said it uh Daniel the
when you are a company with employee
installers and you're trying to compete
with some guy in a truck that's not
trained not a doesn't value the industry
the way you do
and you're trying to compete against
them
the only the what go career does just
level the playing field so that like
skilled people are competing with like
skilled people so that you're not you
know a three Hammer guy is not competing
with a one hammer guy or a half Hammer
guy for the same work and that's that's
what go career brings to the industry
and hopefully over time here installers
will recognize that higher Hammer rating
equals more jobs and higher pay that is
that is what the data shows us over the
last three years and multiple millions
of dollars ran across the platform is
higher Hammer rating higher pay
and part of that is because obviously
the higher Hammer rated work is more
difficult
takes more Talent takes more skill but
that's that's what is intended I've said
it a a bunch but you don't need a three
Hammer guide to put a carpet tile
vestibule uh you know a vestibule of
walk-off carpet tile land you need
somebody who knows what they're doing
and use the right adhesives and still
have is is educated but not necessarily
the guy that's fully certified and just
kicking kick and tail right
um so getting the right people on the
right project is is kind of the key
there
um so anyway that that's that's our
that's our vision for trying to make
sure that you know like-minded like
skilled people are competing with like
skilled people and not not this guy
that's committed his life to the
industry
thousands upon thousands of dollars and
you know uh tons of hours invested in
his education and his certifications his
or her uh Education certification you
know trainings uh with a guy that
worked for somebody for six or eight
months and this that this is the plague
to me of the industry is the guy that
worked for somebody for six or eight
months and then goes out thinks he's an
installer and starts you know starts his
own subcontracting company and you can't
tell from Adam you don't know if he came
and sat across from you he watched his
boss do it he knows the name of the
tools you question him he seems
confident or she seems confident and you
uh if you give that person a chance
um you better have wonderful oversight
I've made that mistake I bring up a
particular project all the time where a
birthing unit we were doing that the guy
sold me I thought he knew what he was
doing and it was very evident as soon as
our install manager got on the job and
said
yo this needs torn out before anybody
else sees it
you know and we did we tore it out
immediately but I'm not gonna lie we've
been there this is uh Mr promise he used
to be Mr promise the world I like to say
oh yeah oh yeah we could do that and
it's like what is going on and he's like
I I believe we can do it and figure it
out
well part of that we we still ahead of
time educate ourselves as much as we can
before we start doing that and then you
know when you have means you can't if
you have the intent of going and getting
the knowledge you need once you land it
I remember my first protect all job I
wasn't certified and I had no idea but
as soon as
I'm sorry Factory trained uh I we we
hadn't been to the training but I knew
for a fact if I won the project I would
send guys to go get trained and and we
did that so that's not bad but I'll tell
you what is bad is if you say you can do
something you don't go get the training
then you go try to do it and you
let me change that word mess it up to
the point
where it's not recognizable as the
flooring it was supposed to be
and let me go back to this promise to
the world thing
um
I was just always confident in our
ability to be able to to manage that
test and get it done
um and I was always political in my
delivery hey you know what that's not uh
what we specialize in but I I feel is
very similar to this right here
so I'm pretty sure that we can get it
done for you no I never said do it right
number seven be perfect you know I was
very political about it but we I would
force us into
hey if you look at it I forced us to
start reading and paying more attention
to everything to start learning about
everything about it it was well look
that's what we're both here I I
there's not I'm no different when I was
when I was subcontracting literally if
it was a floor that could be installed I
remember my first wool carpet job I had
no right doing that job
had no right uh luckily I had some
mentors around at the time that were
willing to help me out and and make sure
that project went well and I learned a
lot and you know continued to learn but
um yeah we all uh get in those scenarios
because you don't want to turn work down
but just have the intent of going and
getting the training I'm trying to save
you from what I did I don't want you to
go through what I've been through and
that's the whole purpose of this huddle
is like maybe you'll hear something like
you know Jose saying saying that and if
you've done that that's that's fine if
you have the intent of going and getting
the training necessary or at least the
education necessary to install that
product properly but uh without the
intent of doing that you can get
yourself in some pretty deep Waters and
I have with us we're first generation
too so a lot of people you know when
when we go to the conventions and stuff
they're always asking who'd you learn
from who'd you learn from it's like
by messing up yeah basically or going
back I had the
let's call the luxury of coming
Scholars and fixing unsatisfactory work
let's just call it that so I had to
reverse engineer and then put it back
together and that's when I
started finding out the do's and the
don'ts and
it's amazing what you can learn when
you're fixing other people's stuff yep
now we just got to fix the industry man
we just got to try to figure it out well
you know just keep taking stabs at it
every week here and and you know I know
you guys and uh okay
and well we as well as you guys don't
know how to say that properly there but
uh the point being is getting involved
um we did all the last week that's why
about being involved and where you can
get stay up to date on the industry well
that's kind of that this is showing you
why right here is all the changes
everything that happened in the industry
really required for you to be part of it
to stay in touch and and and know the
new products know the new tools I mean
in heat welding the different Groovers
and and
different heat welding tips and all of
that stuff that I mean you you could you
could be an expert in that alone I do
when I do classes I estimate I I carry
probably around twenty five thousand
dollars worth of tools to these classes
his lunch box
I mean it's it's definitely an
investment right but these tools are
12 years old now and they're still going
strong you know you got to take care of
your investment your Investments take
care of you yeah take care of your tools
guys there's another
Pro tip clean your patch trial off and
your bucket out before the pet your
patch dries
Torres on Facebook right now he said
every time he sees new wolf products
gets them all excited
[Laughter]
Danny I'd love to hear that well new
tools are I mean that's a guy's
playground you know a flooring
installers playground I should say I'm
like you get a new tool in some one of
our hands and we want to mess around
with it I got a brand new uh Power
groover this week
so uh that you know I was like let's see
what this thing can do it's
like a part of an airplane it doesn't
look like our old one our old one the
the
um blade would not engage anymore
uh yeah the
I think the motor
where it attaches to the blade I think
those bearings went out on it basically
we didn't have time to try to fix it so
we bought a new one but you know you get
a new tool in and we started grooving
stuff that uh just because right just
because
GTI Max for the fun of it even one of
the cordless ones no I didn't get a
cordless one
we got a leister so
they got a cordless one too
I I uh if I did all the personal tool
purchasing that might be uh you know I
might have investigated that a bit more
but our our uh install manager does most
of that so
but at the same time if you have we had
about a thousand foot to weld I I do you
obviously have a a battery powered one
or do you guys
um we have one it is it does not belong
to us gotcha does it last a long period
of time we have not even got a chance to
use it yet I can't wait to hear
it was a a hey we want you guys to use
this tool
and it's been sitting on the shelves
because we haven't had a job to use it
on yet oh
more or less I want to say when they got
sent to us is more or less a prototype
check this out with what improvements I
mean it's on the market now but see how
cool that is just being who you guys are
you get opportunities to mess around
with stuff probably no one else has even
messed with yet
fun that's it's exciting what about the
stubby let me give a plug for the stubby
tell me about that
um
um so first of all it's
it's a great roller right I actually
only started selling them because I
purchased them from the manufacturer and
started using them once I use them on a
job I said more people need to use this
yeah so Game Changer guys yeah like I'm
not selling it to make a bunch of money
I'm selling it because people should
have it in their toolbox
and uh you know I got him from his name
is actually Daniel too in Australia
and you know we communicated and he I
purchased him he sent them over
I fell in love and it's actually
pretty much one of the only rollers that
we use now from the toolbox it's it's
the number one go-to roller it's it's so
versatile it's hard not to use it where
can people buy it
you can go to our website preferred
flooringmi.com if that's too long
he said that if that's too long so I
bought the domain pfmi dot team because
that's what we are as a team so I
figured that oh nice that was a good fit
sweet
my pinkies don't work man typing that
long email address to people my pinkies
I get accused of it all the time Stewart
and associates.com
and then I got to tell people how to
spell Stuart because they tried
w-a-r-t and like you guys right right
way
if people are watching this and stuff
right now I actually put on uh right
when we're done here I'll put on a
coupon code
uh we'll do go Carreras since that's a
a big part of what we got going on here
so I'll do a go Carrera coupon code for
uh 10 off awesome
awesome take advantage of that guys
hey I got another uh what about
um
the difference in concrete that I think
that's another big changer I only want
to spend a couple of minutes here that
we have left to talk about it but that's
that's great right especially since we
do resilient and
probably a lot of the hard tile guys
will say it too right when it everything
all the additives that they put in there
makes everything non-porous right away
it just locks that moisture in it's not
going up it's not going down it's just
in that slab and you have to treat it as
a non-porous
so much
more work has to go into it
um we did a job
uh Bronson Hospital and this one just
got finished up last year where there
was a bunch of Nora going down and you
know once we you know those are the
questions you ask up front there are any
additives going in here yeah this
additive is going in here I was told
never to use the name because they'll
sue me
all right I think I know which one one
you're talking about
so there are we were like all right
there has to be a bladder layer and in
order for this you know to hold any
warranties or anything
and they there's so much pushback on
what we thought this was going to save
money and
yes yes and no right like
well there's so much I
I've got some friends in that industry
so I don't want to talk poorly but it
there's a lot of snake salesman or snake
oil salesmen in that deal where they're
like this is your cure-all well there's
always resulting damage from something I
mean be honest when you sell this gonna
create a non-porous lab you may have to
profile your slab to achieve a
mechanical bond with your adhesives out
you know or whatever but it just sold as
this oh it stops moisture and
I think that's even debatable to be
honest but at the end of the day it
definitely causes well all the
manufacturers say no additives no no no
carrying compounds all that has to be
removed and then you put it
intrinsically in the concrete mix
you got problems and then uh I've talked
to uh concrete
because
I've been on the project when they're
pouring concrete you can talk to these
guys they'll and watch them add more
more water to their mix as they're going
on a hot day well then they're adding
you know instead of four and a half to
one or four to one you know it gets up
there at that seven and now you have all
this water of convenience in the slab
and this magical product supposed to
solve the problem
um
I don't know the jury's out on it uh I
know that Lou as well as a lot of other
really highly qualified guys in the
industry state will tell you stay away
tell your tell your concrete uh tell
your GC to stay away from the additives
but they're not going to we we've we've
had the
um situation come up several times and
we just make them sign off because they
don't want to go through the additional
um the additional uh cost that it would
create to make it ready for the flooring
so
do you know do the additives only affect
the flooring is that the only thing that
in fact
manufacturer and everything
else probably why they were
keep it going anyway I don't I don't
think it affects the structure or
anything I think it actually makes it
stronger holding the moisture in because
concrete needs moisture in order to to
stay together it does it needs you know
it needs proper hydration but it really
only needs two to one to properly
hydrate Portland
the problem is you'd only place you know
300 square foot a day
in that condition to pour a 10 or 20 or
30 000 foot slab in a day you have to
have water of convenience which is just
water for the pure purpose of being able
to place the concrete in a quicker
manner but as it dries up you get
scaling if it if they over trial it
there's tons of different problems that
come along with it but
as well as you know a slab that does
this and
uh that was the other issue on this job
was the engineering of everything they
they poured all the concrete and it was
a belly
every 12 feet
yep
so
was that a fun job was that a
post-tension slab or something like that
do you know I I don't know all the
specifics all I know is that I had to
fix it
well welcome to flooring
[Laughter]
what we're here for
well we're running out of time here I
want to thank you again great
conversation I hope some people got some
benefit out of it uh
do we have any uh chats or anything I
apologize but we're we're out of time
this week we got going on some some
Rants and some good stuff but bottom
line is the industry's obviously changed
it will continue to change your job is a
high quality flooring installer stay up
with the times stay involved and be
educated and informed
absolutely
go to go career that did you guys get
that those links up yet to where they
can find some training
yep it's on all the socials sweet and I
believe they're building the page uh now
uh just about done with the page that
will be live on the website so
yeah
okay yep sounds like they got it up is
that on the website yeah
yep sweet then now they got somewhere to
go in order to point them to everywhere
yep go to go career.com go to the
trainings or
um events page and uh check it out and
if you have any
trainings that you want to um
uh you you don't see on there that you
think are valuable please email us at
support gocarera.com and let us know
what the training we'll get it put up
next week there may be a gentleman on
here he's involved with uh fcica and
then doing inspections and stuff
um he was watching the last few and then
I think he's on an inspection today he
wanted to join but I think he might want
to actually come on to talk about what
he's got going on so that'd be great I I
shared with him the link and uh we'll
keep in touch to see how that pans out
for next week awesome yeah I would be
interested to chat with him on his
opinion of should flooring installers
get at at least some level of inspection
training to know what the inspectors
look for I've always thought that might
be you know that would be really quality
information for a guy to know what if
there's a failure what do they look for
right you know what I mean so and then
on the flip side
if you are an inspector and you got
questions definitely call and installer
because we've seen it all yeah yeah in
all of us I have inspectors calling me
just asking me questions like I've never
seen this what are you think and then
seen that plenty of times and this is
what it's from
nice
well he's invited it's awesome and uh we
will see you guys next week and talk to
you guys here in a bit signing out all
right have a good week thank you see you
next week all right adios
all right