This week the guys are joined by special guest Roland Thompson (https://thompsonflooringmd.com) to discuss how he built his company, and what steps others can take to make sure they are building a strong team that will launch their business forward.

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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

Ser what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday

at 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career

with me as always is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan we got a special

guest today Mr Roland Thomas of Thompson's floring out of tell me again

Thompson Thompson out of Frederick Maryland Frederick Maryland Frederick Maryland Roland's been on our uh podcast

a time or two and uh well several times always a great Insight uh he brings a

real good unique perspective uh from the retailers world

as well as training and just what it takes to be a highlevel uh flooring

installer so today is just about that retail

and uh the retailers and how you build a successful team around you I was talk do

you guys have an echo a little bit yes okay I'm going to turn some things try

and tune some things in here there we go hopefully that works um I was talking to

Roland right before the the podcast here getting a little bit more background uh

I've known Roland for I don't know four or five years we've been going seeing each other at shows andang out a little

bit one of the unique uh aspects that he does is a lot of these uh TV shows like

uh I believe it's Restaurant Impossible is one of them that you do I think you've done some others but his real

passion is in installation and he at the ripe age of 62 is that correct he

decided to go out 64 64 go out and start his own retail uh Loc where he sells

materials and labor provides labor services to and consultancy uh to clients so

today it's going to be a little bit less of my input because to be honest with

you I'm a I'm in the commercial world uh go Carrera which many of you know me

from is works for both retail and and uh commercial

contractors it's designed to do so however my expertise in flooring

particularly from a business subject matter uh is really more Consolidated around the commercial world so I'm

pleased to have Roland on the the call and um I know that the preferred

flooring gentlemen uh do a lot of residential work as well and Retail

possibly a little bit of that as well so I'm going to let you guys kind of talk about what it takes and Rolland I mean

you you you went from installer to like a the the lead of an installation team

at a at a well Carpet One I believe and

and then went on to start your your business as a retailer what was the what

are some of the key let's start here what have you learned through that

through that transition and what are some key pitfalls that you kind of can share with us that

that you know maybe help some other people avoid if they're looking to do the same thing you did well you know it

sort of think things worked out in in the right progression for me because you

know I when I you was out installing I installed a small bathroom for a retail

for a consumer you know or I'd do a big high I you know commercial building so I

was did both I worked both commercial and residential as far as the installing

and uh then when I went into the carpet one you know so I learned that aspect

and I you know and that's still my passion installers are my passion and but yet when I went into the carbet one

dealer and was handling all the all the stuff for them and I got to go to the sales training I got went to the Carpet

One conven ions I went to all went through all the sales trainings with Sam Alman and all those so I learned that

started learning that into the aspect of the of the business so it sort of

flip-flopped I still kept my hands in installation because I still would go out and do the custom work and certain

things but I was learn at that time I was learning the the the retail end of

it getting to meet the the the sales reps and the retail and all that of the

of the that end of the industry so on that side is that some of the pit some of the

lessons was get getting to know some of the the the sales reps and and actually

realizing that you needed some some soft skills some sales training some some of

that salesmanship that goes along with you know owning your own uh retail

business well you know it there again you know install you know you hear all the time installers make the best sales

people on and but I've seen so many installers try to go into sales and ended up going back in into into

installs because it does take a different mindset trying to sell and it

takes a different disposition trying to sell uh and and learning that from you

know you know going through the customer service orientations and all that kind of stuff learning how to talk to a con

consumer uh is another skill to learn so installers you know to be able to make

that transfer has to be willing to have open their mind up to learn that into the industry you know with us as

installers when we loaded up in the morning we are going out to make money and we knew we had a job we knew we're

gonna do something we're going to make some money and a salesperson has to learn that they have to learn rejection

because you're not going to close every sale because if you close every sale you're you're you're not pricing it right it's just not going to happen good

point it's just not going to happen so that salesperson can go out and talk to

10 people and and he's fortunate if he gets six of them you know and seven of

them there's there's always so so as you started doing this

as you started to really develop your sales skills and stuff and and you know

creating that soft uh you know knowing how to talk to customers and sell them flooring is one thing how did you use

installation and I'm going somewhere with this how did you use your installation prowess and and

knowledge um did that come in handy I should say when it came to selling sure

it does and it still does to this day and and that's why I'm a firm believer that sales people me and Jerry levenson

went over that know battled back and forth that sales people should know about installation because when you're

talking to a a consumer there's a fine line you can you you want them to

understand that you know understand what's going to happen in their home because it's their Castle so you're going to want them to understand what's

going to happen in their home and the more you know to be able to project that to them is going to give you a hands up

to somebody a salesperson or don't but in the same Realms you don't want to overwhelm them with too much te techn

you know terminology either so you don't take all those plaques off the wall and and stack them up in your truck and take

him out to show show I I make him come in and look no he he he just makes one post every day

yeah 365 Kevin is on Facebook he says uh as

seen on TV Mr Seen On TV you should have a shirt like that Roland yeah SE on TV

no so as you started down that path and you started to um you know grow the

business I think you stated earlier you know it kind of just took off you were thinking like hey I'm going to finish my

career out you know doing doing a few things almost as um I wouldn't call it a

hobby but it it almost seemed like you were going into it with you know muted

expectation and then it kind of took off for you you had to build a team around you which is really what this podcast

this this episode's about is how do you build a team as a retailer but more importantly or maybe more importantly is

how do installers become part of a good team and what what aspect on both sides

so how did you build it and then what's it take from the installer to be part of a good team and be valued by the

retailer well go ahead Jose you you put into no I

just like the question I like the question that he asked you I want to hear it from the master of disaster I don't anyway you know what what I did is

like I said I came in figuring you know I was going to just you I just install sell and install because I knew I had

picked up some saleing skins you know you figure I've been married now 49 years I know I can

sell I talked my wife into being able to stay with me but so in the same Realms

you know but when things started taking you know I had to

learn to then trust and and fortunately because I was where at the position I

was I knew you know was CFI trainings and everything else I knew what the better installers were uh but I still

had to learn the trust them and they had to learn to trust me when they came in so it come down to trust and feel

comfortable with each other you got they got to feel comfortable with me I got to feel comfortable with them and and then

when it came to where I had moved to where I couldn't even handle all the all

the measures anymore you know as one person uh you know then I went out and

and you know through being at the carpa one I knew who was one of the best

salesman considered one of the best salesmen in town that people hated to go up against and I made a phone call and

said okay hey I need a guy you ready to come and he say sure so it's it's

learning you know how to you know we're not just like last week I got a call

from from PJ's wife that PJ uh was was not doing well as he's better now so so

I can bring that up let me interject for the audience PJ's one of the like Premier trainers in the industry he he's

uh the uh owner of natural fiber um I forget the whole name but it's the

natur what go ahead nfic natur fiber insation certification yeah so it's

high-end you know dealing with wols and you can even learn how to do the uh you

know SE seams to pattern we went through that class it's a great class yeah so if

you if you're ever interested just to let every know he's talking about when he says PJ it's PJ Arthur with nfic so

yeah so so um I get a call on on Tuesday Morning from Eloise's wife saying that

uh he was taken the hospital and he had a course start in Wednesday there there's guys from Canada and all that in

and needed the course done my point is to this was I had the

capability because I have a good team to know that I could move things around get in the car

and drive down there and put it on for them because I had installers that were going to take care of my customers back

here I had a Salesman who's going to be able to take care of everything

business-wise and so I packed up went down and and did the class for him and came back Saturday so so it provides

freedom is what you're saying I mean this is a very specific instance where the freedom came out to help a friend

and a a you know not only a personal friend of yours but also a industry friend right and able to go help PJ out

Freedom looks You Know M multiple different facets of that but you were able to build a team that's able to run

the company uh in your absence how did you do that let's get to

some nuts and bolts what are you looking for from your let's start with the

salesman what what do you look a good sales for example I just hang up so there again

you know when I started putting the team together yeah I I went to the installers

that you know I used at the carpet one dealer you know installers that I know went through the certifications know

what they're they know how they had to know what I expected out of them when they go into my consumer's home and what

is that let's drill down what is that what you expect of them what I expect

them is to have a do a good job because everybody wants them to do a good job

but I when when they the next day or the two days later sometimes it's two days

all right we make a phone call to our our retail customers all right or any of

them and my questions are a did they do a good job so they're expected to do

that they expect they know my quality level and they they're expected to reach reach towards that the best they can and

it sounds like that starts with the salesperson then correct it starts with the salesperson setting the expectations

to the client all right so he's got to know that all right then I'm GNA ask him

a question were they Pleasant did you enjoy them being in their home I expect

them to treat my customers with K gloves you know is Sir

home you're a guest and they expect I expect him to treat him that way and then I'll then I go did they clean up

and leave your house better than it was when they came those you and I want you

know if I any of those they give me a negative review I'm going to the installer and saying hey you didn't

reach it this time now do I expect them to be perfect no I'm not but I expect

them to strive to do their best and they know that's what I expect out of them yeah and you have a right a good

followup and an expectation so it starts with your your finding just to kind of

unpack this a little bit so getting a good salesman is getting somebody who a

knows floring uh or can be trained to know floring uh and B can set you uh

enduser expectations or homeowner expectations because that is probably

one of and I want to bring that point out because that's I think Daniel and

Jose you guys are in the Facebook groups but that's one of the the complaints from a lot of installers out there is

that the salesman promises the world and then it's it's impossible for the

installer to get out there and and reach those expectations so I think that's important

that A salesperson you know manages the expectations of the homeowner or the end

user and uh so that that point is is is worthy of noting right to talk on the

sales end of it what you're saying is this is what I have in place okay with

with my salesperson now fortunately there again I knew him he was at the

carbal one dealer for years prior to that his dad had a na was a Navy dealer for years he grew up in

the sales portion so product knowledge and everything else I mean somebody

walks in with a with a flooring and he'll look at it and go oh that's this this this this he knows that you know he

can tell them what it was when it was sold and if they make it anymore you know but what makes him what him and I

have in place all right is like you said about the how important it is me being on the installation end a salesperson

being able to relate so two things we have in set in place one is If he if he goes out and looks at a job and he has

any doubt whatsoever of of something that can be done should be done might get done what

a trans what transition should go on this door he brings it to me he'll take pictures brings it to me there sometimes

with me being gone the way I'm gone he can't bring it to me so if I'm not here for him to bring it to me he then needs

to talk to the head head installer from one of the crews because we have multiple you know workroom type things

the have one guy Alfredo has seven guys and and Edwin has eight guys all right

but he needs to take it to them and say hey here's the pictures I took here what this to be done or if he has any doubt

line up for them to meet him at the job and go over it prior to pricing the job

so so uh that's what we have set up here so you know I don't depend on you know

he never installed and you can only teach him so much about installation without them if they haven't done done

it so if there's any doubt in what should be priced

out whether it should be priced out what should be priced out what's needed it's in place for him then to seek out the

expert that knows that so that's how we have set up if you don't know ask that's

right 100% what's your guys's experience in in dealing with that portion when

you're when you're selling to an end user um how do you guys deal with the

similar situation you have somebody going out and selling a job do you guys

do that um still you guys do that coffee and do you guys do that and then

bounce things off one another or do you have a separate salesperson that goes out and sells your pro your residential

projects no that would be us a lot of a lot of the residential is him when I'm

dealing with residential customers I I guess I I don't really know because

I just go in there explain to them what we're going to do I mean what it is in the nutshell is is

Daniel has patience for computers he doesn't have patience for people sometimes understand his strengths and

his weaknesses um I'm definitely more of a people person so it just makes more sense to put myself out there um

and I don't I look at it from from installer perspective I don't ever in I

don't ever and I will never intentionally put an installer at risk or or jeopardize a project because I'm

over speaking um but I I also understand some of the process so I do not um I I

under promise and try to overd deliver right I I still try to do that on on residential and Commercial um but at the

same time is um I try to be thorough and and the way Daniel said to explain everything I I do

my very best to do that um if I don't know I say I don't know if I do know um

I try to articulate my words in a manner that will

fit um our conversation right like I don't want to start droing technical terms to someone where it's going to go

over their head so I try to uh to say it in terms that they're goingon to understand um sometimes just and uh it's

just it's just one of those things where I try to find a solution and instead of uh instead of shooting down their ideas

or saying hey I know that you have this material in mind but we can't do that here I try to find a solution and if

they don't understand it i' explain it to them that way um and as far as the installs I think

the what I'm finding is that no matter how thorough I am with the client

there's always something that they act like oh I didn't know that I was supposed to do

that I didn't know this I didn't know that they they they they like in residential you tend to see that a

lot more than commercial um but you like you're dealing directly with the end user

there's there's no in between it's you and them and and that's why but I try to set everybody up for Success so they

forgot they had to move that water bed and safe yeah we'll have all the furniture moved by the time you get here

and then it gets to that day oh yeah I didn't wake up early yeah

so it it's it's it's a work in progress and and I think that I tell everybody

I'm not a Salesman Daniel tells me otherwise other people tell me otherwise but like I I just try to help find

Solutions and and Rin well salesman's not a dirty word I mean if you're a good

one you you set expectations you tell the client what what they're going to get and you you sell things at a fair

price and and all these key aspects you also work through all the challenges

that may come up or the um the uh rebuttal from from the enduser or

homeowner right so it's not a bad term if you're good at sales you're a Salesman so I'll call you a

Salesman that's fine I'm never I'm never offended by it I'll be honest I'm never offended by it Edo wants to know Eduardo

wants to know why you've been crying all day hiding your eyes I almost put on my

sunglasses so we could all match and you just I go put on mine we're all just sunglassed out I have I had I had

surgery in my eye uh this morning they put a laser in there and shot to the back of my eye so the light is is really

killing me today well you look cool I think it's a look that works for the podcast and you could just be the

sunglass dude on the podcast and Mario's on says hello Mr Rollin and then texted

him right after that I see you I I had a meeting right after my

surgery this morning and I went there and I I I assured the the the young lady that I wasn't said I I feel like such a

tool right now but the my eye hurts really bad so I got to try to protect it

um so well I I think they look good on you so um it sounds like Rand and uh

from what you and Jose are saying I mean it's that first step though is really important for the salesperson to be the

right you know it's the first person the homeowner is going to see often and and

they they have a lot of responsibility to set the job up correctly and make sure that the that the installer is set

up for success I hear Jose and Daniel both say that a lot on the podcast in

different topics it's about setting up your installer for Success um so what does that mean to you

guys what does it mean to set the installer up for Success well um oh go ahead ran go ahead

you know when when you you know as a salesperson any you know we each have

and and that's when I watch guys say well we don't need the salesman or we don't need the store you know each

person has a duty to do and for the salesperson like you said they they

enter the store you know it's the duty of the owner to get advertised get

people into the into the place then when the when they come in it's the duty of the salesman to greet them right to know

how to handle to know how but he also needs enough that's what I said you can get to techn technical with a client

that's what Jose even said you know you're gonna watch what he says you can get too technical with them you need to

give them the information you know of what you know and the pros and cons of product and all that kind of stuff that

comes with selling well then you got they got to set them up with understanding what they're going to go

through when when the install comes and and that's where you need to learn you need to learn if you have tear up you

know that it it it's it's it could be Dusty you know we're protected best the thing but dust can find a place to go

all right there you know and give them ideas and then we're going to take up and we don't know what's under there it

could be this you know get them ready for that in case there's unforeseen things uh and getting them prepped to

know for the installer and then the biggest key is having that all written down for the

installer all right if an installer has a distinctive work

order that explains everything you told the the consumer not the surprise that

the consumer says you told them everything that was discussed all right you know whether you're moving the

furniture whether you're gonna you know paint the paint the banister whether you're gonna do this a detailed layout

and detailed um of what needs to be done then he's prepared I can look at it in

the morning before I leave and go okay this is what I got to do a he knows what

supplies to get all right he knows he's going to need Camen tape he knows he's going to need this specialized glue he

knows he's gonna need that nothing's worse than getting to a job and find out there wasn't something on on the work

order and now you got to run and tell consumer I got to run I'm gonna be gone for an hour I'll be back you know so

that's getting him ready for Success he's there prepar pred to do his job the

way that the job is supposed to be done and you prepared him for that and so

that that to me is is what a job of a Salesman is is not only to sell the job

but have that have the you know the installer you know because an

installer I tell I tell dealers as a Salesman you can mess

up and you you can overcome that if your installer messes up because you didn't

give him the stuff he needs to do and do it right a customer gets mad and might

not come back to your store I as an installer can take take a customer who's mad at a

salesperson and turn them around to love the store because of what I did and

so that success that chain that needs to go there as as a as a retailer you need

to make sure you have each one trained properly to to enhance the other

one sounds like a team effort on there too and that's a great example that's part of being a team is um is is

understanding that uh we all have we all have guidelines as the installer the the

salesperson but it's also understanding that we're all human we're all going to forget something and being able to um uh

being able to smooth things over when something doesn't go as planned um and

and that's actually coming from the installation side having to have the

salesperson back more often than not um and learning together because they might not know the installation side at all

right they're just good at selling um and that's where communication comes in and you gota well and that's where

that's where that's where the team comes in you guys were just talking about I mean I earlier I said you know often the

salesperson is the first thing that the homeowner sees or um you know in many

cases anyway and the installer is typically the last person they're going to see so that shows you your team you

got the owner as Rollin said that has to get the traffic in in first Contact is

say A salesperson and not always but in bigger stores that's certainly true so

in bigger retail ERS and then but very often the installers the last taste in

the the retail uh you know the consumer's mouth so to speak so it's like the last flavor of the store that

you have is the installer and what's important is that the installer

understands that you know and I think that stores that value their labor do a

good job of reminding them how important they are and finding creative ways to

incentivize them to do not only do a good job from an installation perspective and a qualities you know

standpoint but also from like you said Rand were they Pleasant how how you know

being Pleasant being um being in a guest in someone's house means that you're

you're you're thankful for being there you're grateful and you know installers

if we can learn to be grateful for that day's work uh be grateful for that

project and and show it through our actions and through our attitude with the consumer whether that's frankly

whether that's retail or commercial but um you know I was having a conversation

earlier with a guy and and and I was like you know there's two different levels of professionalism when you're or

two different ways of professionalism you can be pretty rough neck uh on a

commercial job but you better have your safety professionalism down you better have hard hat safety glasses work boots

High Biz vest know your safety stuff you may not talk the best and probably shouldn't be in a retail environment but

you take the other side and the retail installer has to be more personable and

pleasant and and understanding that you're a guest in the house and uh but

you know they're not wearing high VI vests and safety glasses and hard hats and work boots and things of that nature

so there's two different ways to be professional as a as an installer um and

you you know the beauty is you kind of pick your path I I did both early on and and I just gravitated to the to the

commercial world uh maybe it's because I was a bit of a butthead when I was in my 20s and and didn't always uh present

myself the best but I also understand what that's like so you know installers

out there you are a piece of the sales process at the end of the day you're part of the team and the more that

retail I'm putting some words in the retailers mouth here but I believe that the more that a retailer Can

U include the installer as part of their team and make sure they know that they're part of the team and make sure

that they know how important they are you know I think that goes a long way yeah I was going to say something about

that because I I think that you're you're talking about building a team right you got to kind of make sure that

your your core values aligned and then that translates over into the workspace because there's you know

plenty of people that we have done work for throughout the years uh kind of the same thing it goes one of two ways it's

either hey this is happening on this project and then they come back with what do we need to do to make this right

do whatever you need to do right like let's figure this out together or they say no do it the way I'm telling you

that's it well you know people PE just like you know old thing and when you you're

becoming a Salesman or you're coming dealing with the public you know they say people like to buy from people they

like yeah and and so they like and trust you know so it's the same thing with the

installation Realms people like who's in their home who they like um prime

example was when I first went into the carpet one and my job was to you know they had had some trouble with the in

some of the installation teams and trying to decide what was going on their number one produ productive

crew I got rid of and their lowest productive crew I

told them they needed to keep and and they they were they were hourly at the

time they were hourly employees and the number one production

crew lost them so much work customers would not come back to that store he

when you say productive crew just for clarification is that just the one that

got the most stuff put in right right and his work was fine it wasn't you know but he he he that crew would go out and

and and if you had a bigger job that's who they sent because that's that who would get it done the other crew

wouldn't get that done it' take two days or almost two days to do that job so he's the one who went but he

lost so you know they lost work that guy he the leag guy for that company for

that Crew He had husbands that came in looking for him to beat the crap out of him on how he treat he treated their W

their wife while they were at work he was you know a customer would come in and and he would just say get out of my

way I'm here to do a job leave me alone he had a bad disposition he would talk to him nasty and I kept telling him yes

he might get the most work done for you but you're losing business people aren't

coming back all right the other the on the other hand part of the reason why Ron and

Randy didn't didn't get much done in the day is they became friends and would

have lunch with the people they loved them every customer come back into the

store you know I said he's bringing you work back the other one isn't so you

know that's part of pulling that team you have to recognize that you have to

to analyze that and bring them on the team there was no way I was going to bring the other guy on the on the team

when I came in there there was just no way he wasn't going to change his ways yeah so so why is all

this why is all this important I mean you know retailers honestly you're not you're not

competing against one another really a lot of the retailers are competing against the big box stores who yeah

where they really lack is the guidance when you go into a box store I won't name any

but you go in there for guidance uh you need guidance in floring there's too

many different products that are made or manufactured in different ways that have

different use cases and you go into a retailer for

that guidance that you wouldn't get at a box store but if you the one thing that box stores uh have really worked on is

the customer service aspect so if retailers are not good at both sides

kind of guiding the consumer on good product selections that fit you know the

long-term uh use case for their house and or um or a given

room and also be pleasant be be um be

enjoyable to work with now I'm not saying the box stores have great Crews that do that but my point here is you

you want to be in in kind of checking both of those boxes as a retailer you

don't have the marketing budget often that you know the big box stores do that

get on TV and commercials and all this stuff you got to beat them on customer experience and if you can beat them on

customer experience that customer comes back and back and back and has no desire to go and get this watered down version

of what you offer and so that's why why this is an important podcast is you know

retailers have to understand you're not competing against one another in reality you're competing against these big box

do and and your guys's job and this is why I keep deferring to you guys because I'm not I'm not in the residential

retail World here's go ahead Roland pardon me

here's you talking about that here's one of the things I use all the time when when the person's been in into a box

store all right is and this is part of being a team and and showing as a team

when when I go to you go to Clos or my salesman go to close we can say well you know Edwin's coming out and going to be

to installer on your job next week or whenever I'm gonna have I'm gonna ass Edwin to your job you know and he's

great guy he's got a wife and he's got you know kids and and you can build him up you know say you know and he's going

to do you a great job you you know he knows what our standards are and everything else feed

it a box store can't do that because that salesperson has no idea who is GNA

go out no clue no clue and not not saying that the guy was a bad installer

but they can't give that Personal Touch that a retailer can do if he builds the

right team and he builds the right experience and he knows his team you know I mean it it you know if I show up

if I show up at Alfredo's job site I know what Alfredo drinks I know what he

likes you know and so I might bring bring them out of soda you know and say

here I was on my way in I thought I'd stop by here you are you're building that team and and box stores can't do

that where where you as a might have their favorites they might have their favorites every now and then but you

know not many not you know they they might get to know one here or there but most of them nowadays who he knows is

the head of the work room yeah not not the guy actually going out to the job site most of right he might know what

you know what beer that the guy from the from the work room likes but he doesn't he won't know the guy that's actually

out there on that on that consumer's house most of the time more time so I do

I know who's I'm sending you know and even if you don't know the day you so

you close the deal you'll say well when we schedule it with you we'll let you know who's coming we'll let you know

what their name is and who's goingon to be at your home and that's something they can't do even on the commercial

side we we had someone in there last week and you know we have uh pictures of

crystal hanging up all over like from when she was in the competition and then it was a a female and she was like is

she going to be at this project and we were like she might be yeah she's like oh my God I'm so excited [Laughter]

you know um so I want to tag on to what Rin was saying about about that one

thing I'm noticing and my mother worked at a big box store for for some time some years uh and not necessarily in the

flooring portion of it but one thing that they are really good at is their retail management like they have a

system in place that would be hard for a smaller place like like me to follow

because the their team is just so vast um so so they're able to to to do that

um and and it sounds like uh we can learn from each other they can learn from us we can learn from them right and it sounds like uh being a smaller store

we we can personalize The Experience right we're selling an experience along with um a a good installation or or or

an installation period and like Rin said they can't guarantee that there's going to be a specific person or crew they

just say it's going to be done this time so I you know as far as the process on that I can't I can only guess how it's

done right um I can't say this is how it's done but um I think uh learning

learning from from from their retail experience um would would probably benefit uh a smaller store as

well and this is myew by the way that walked in he put a hat on because we were talking about we just happen to be

talking about uh uh professionalism right and and you had mentioned that and I was thinking yeah you're right there

is two levels but I think it's professionalism combined with the proper etiquette and I

think that that's what it is it's a combination of the two um so his etiquette was hide his wild crazy hair

you want see well I think I I think that you know a lot of the key points that are are you

know being brought out here is you know the I'm not trying to crap on box stores

but the personalized experience um oftentimes even there you

you start with one salesman you end with another uh it's that kind of a thing

um and that not that you can always you know guarantee which crew is going to be

on a on your job even as a small store um sometimes you can you know get get

close but the the point is is that you can talk about your guys you know them on a personal level and a lot of the

stores use you know larger work rooms we know that and you just don't know who is

going to come to your home and so there's great reasons to work with

quality retailers the the purpose of this was to bring out some of the the needs or the

the important parts of being a great retailer and and how to build that up so

that both the install side and the sell side are successful and they both you

know kind of sharing that success the more that's understood the more that every that team kind of gets more

cohesive um so working on or diving into labor a

little bit more what what's the status of labor for you ring I mean uh your

your main Crews that you use are they what what kind of activity from a are

they bringing in new guys or is there some young C young guys uh young people people coming into your uh the cruise or

or what's that look like for you well you know it and I'm not you I guess I

try to learn how to word I want to word this right because I don't want anybody to take

anything we talk about the insallation insulation crisis and is there an

insulation crisis to a certain degree yes there is but I think we miss

miscount on on people that's getting into industry to a certain degree

because it's nothing for me to see uh in one of the few of the

installers I use that every time their 11 10th 11 12th year year old

grade son or whatever is not going to school he's here helping his dad so

there is a lot of younger guys being you know in the exposed to to the floring industry

you know it's like the old days you know back when I started in 72 you know the

and that's why you saw so many guys saying I'm third generation I'm fourth generation I'm second generation that's

how a lot of people came into the industry it's still being

done but not as seen as much anymore because of the ethnic group that's

bringing them in okay uh the guy

the guys certain guys well that's below

my my my son so I'm not bringing him in but there's still some being brought in

well certainly not to the same level that it's been you know from the past and so but yeah but yeah but so there is

you're seeing in even my trainings I'm seeing more and more you

know more and more than I have been in the last five years younger people at the trainings

now whether or not the trainings are getting to be known more and that about

coming could be part of it but it's still you know just the one I went down

for PJ there there was uh three of them

that were probably under 30 you know yeah I guess you know the

the generational side of things is a double-edged sword uh it can you you can

have you can bring in new guys uh you can bring in family members and such but

also it didn't work like we do have I mean there's no doubt there is a if the

installation shortage is not felt by certain people by in certain areas or by

certain parts of floring yet it will be um oh yeah it is because people are

retire are going to retire over the next five to 10 years at a rate that we've never seen and if we don't start

backfilling their talent there's going to be a problem and there's just not enough friends and family in those

Realms uh and with my son's case you know he worked in the company since he was 13 and then you know wanted to do

something else and that happens as well uh there I will say one thing that seems

to be relevant today is that you know we're not getting replaced with AI I

know that's a buzzword the AI stuff but it's true there's a lot of stuff that's getting much easier a lot of desk jobs

and coding and things of this nature that is being starting to be replaced with AI we're going to have jobs for a

long time guys they're not coming after the the carpet and flooring guys for the robots aren't being trained to do our

job it's it's the Auto Workers and and things like that the push button kind of

scenarios there's too much too much skill in what we do and it's not not

enough meat on the bone so to speak yeah we don't have the cookie cutter hand skills is what it is and every single

job no matter if it if it is um a repeat or you're doing some Assisted Living where every room is the same it's not

the same like it's everything is slightly different can um can't do what we do on an assembly line you can use

assembly line mentality with the right crew but you you cannot replicate and duplicate um like an assembly line and

that's what makes you gotta have some some thought goes into almost every job and you know R you had made a good point

too about the under 30 year olds you're seeing is a lot of the trainings and

education classes and all that that's all hinged based off of what the the

retail uh and and salesperson is requiring of their installation curs um

you know if if they don't advocate for continued education to the guys that

they're hiring the guys that they're hiring will never think about it right they're just learning they're and and

they're making du there nobody's requiring it and a lot of what we do across the us nobody requires their

certification or training um for what we do we we we get certified or training so that way we can be more efficient and

better at what we do right in hopes that it does separate us and helps us stand out um and I think that if if more

people retailers and and just more people in general were on the same page

as that then we would have a lot more unsolicited exposure to our industry and

that's what would really help us out and well it's starting to you know that that boats CH turning slowly where you know

the quality of the installer is starting to matter uh more and more not not from

what they say they can do but what they can actually do and certifications and trainings and and having those

credentials um you know and also displaying them in a way where it it's

it's really tough when you start talking about all these plaques on on Roland's

wall yeah Jeremy says came with the picture frame Jeremy said that um our industry

brings people in and just calls them a Helper and then has them do grunt work and then when when you just say hey

that's my helper and then they're just in that routine of grunt work grunt work grunt work and every grunt person is

always like I want to install something right and then they don't get that chance and that's what makes them kind

of want to be like why am I even going to be here if you're not going to teach me how to do something which I think is

uh and and then you talk about certifications which is you wanted to show us something today didn't you Well

here here's my the the whole thing at at the end of the day when you're when you're talking about training people and

you know on the job training we we had there was a pretty big stigma around the

industry when I first got in that I didn't want to train my replacement yeah um that that's starting

to wne I'm hoping that you know as the uh age of the installer now like 25

years later you know the 30y olds that I knew then are you know now

55 uh the fact is is that you got to want to train the Next Generation that's

my that's our rally cry to installers out there but how do you trap that

there's and how do new install or how do installers find new health and and all

these things you can see all the problems uh all these issues kind of brought up on the different face

Facebook groups where the the the crews are trying to hire off of off of uh you

know Craigslist or whatever well the retailer has a responsibility in my opinion to to help their Crews to work

through the uh the maturity of new installers you know go Carrera what I

was going to show you is jump start I mean it's a job board that we created at go Carrera where all of the new trained

installers and I should say all but we're working with CFI fcica uh Inc all of the training

entities to bring a board and give companies like preferred flooring or our

flooring company steart Associates or Rollins flooring company if you hire by the hour you can get on jump start and

hire directly off a jump start from one of the recent graduates one of the candidates that are saying Hey I want to

be in floring I went through this course I may not be you know I'm not a I'm not an installer but I need to be with

someone and the crews on Goku are able to hire straight off of jumpstart with a

minimum of a hammer rating of one or above that way you can make sure that

the blind's not leading the blind so to speak that a trained installer so jumpstar just to share briefly a quick

screenshot I'm actually going to share this during the podcast here this is what jump start's coming to be where

these guys have graduated you know from different

um most of these are fcef graduates and

it's simple to jump in look at their profile uh you can review their profile what they're interested in what they did

you can schedule an interview go through find out if they have you know

their work workour desires uh you know do they want to work full or part-time

just more about the information that you are looking for uh when you're talking

about hiring somebody new out of the industry the key here is that you know

these these there's been a lot of effort in bringing these guys in and there's not a real good way for placement and

I'll stop the share I just wanted to give a quick kind kind of you know um

sneak peek into what happens when when you can be when you connect everything

and the key here in my opinion is getting these guys placed and retailers

as well as our our flooring you know our installer Network at go Carrera can hire

them uh directly retailers it's a very cheap fee to have access to jump start

our goal is to give an outlet for people to be placed with retailers and uh

installation crews in a meaningful and and in in a learning environment so that

they can uh move forward uh on the back side of that you know if you hire off a

jump start you're required to um to uh report their skill advancement so on a

monthly basis you go in and you file out fill out a report stating what you what

you've shown them and how they're progression is coming so when somebody like Rand hires Rand do you have any

employee installers or is it all um 1099 crw all 10 all 1099 crw so when those

Crews hire new guys um you know through our program you

you report on their on their advancement and where they're going if they're not

doing reports that's that's I like that you know what I mean and and so you can make sure that guys are trained um there

has to be a way to place and track the advancement of new installers and then

reward them based on that uh on their performance so one there too is uh

the you're already going into a pool of people who are interested in the industry right you're already going into

into that you're you're not gambling with someone who's just a friend of a friend or a family friend or a family

who might be interested um you you're you're you're actually drawing from a

from a a network of people who are actively showing interest in your field

and I it's so funny that they said or posted or shared that and today the conversation was find like minded driven

individuals you'll increase your chances of success you know my success is theirs their success is mine it's a shared it's

a shared effort I I like that yeah yeah and I mean are there is everybody on

there going to be uh home runs no but you got a much better I mean they've completed one of

the introductory courses in the flooring and at least they are showing interest

in our industry and then if we can place them correctly get them with good guys get them with good Crews get them with

good companies at the end of the day that's a better recipe than just kind of

making it up at least you have some kind of a recipe to make your cake yeah uh you're not just throwing a bunch of of

ingredients together and hoping something works out and that's what we've done for so long so having a

systematic way of advancing people through their their career and then you know ideally I'm I'm working with the

industry and I really would like for them to have an assessment so after say two years being as a uh a jump starter

working for a crew or working for a company that after a couple of years you can take you know a certification or an

assessment course uh training and uh somewhat like the I

mean we we need to take cues from some of the industries that are doing it pretty well in the Electric electrical

world you can test out and be a journeyman after four years that doesn't mean you're going to be that you're

automatically a journeyman after four years but you can test out and become a journeyman after four years of being an

apprentice we're trying to create that a similar uh environment but a digital

environment that allows guys to get progressively better and then after say

two to four years they can test out one of the entities test them maybe it's rolling going through a skills

assessment test and and Hands-On uh certification not that they have a true

certification from maybe um you know like whether it's CFI or uh CTF or any

of those you may not be CTI certified but what it is is saying this guy's

skill assessment is here and he's an actual installer he's an installation

professional at this point and we have us you you got a potential for a new crew lead um maybe they go through some

soft skills training as well and we have to start replacing the great Crews that

are out there not replacing them but backfilling them so with when they're ready to leave that they can have

confidence that a their knowledge has been passed down I can't think of a more

uh honorable thing than all the stuff that's up in here that I get to pass it down to somebody and now my installation

techniques and what I learned throughout my career and all my plaques got pushed

down to other people that's a that's a that's a feather of my cap when I decide

that I'm done and I'm not going to install anymore so we're trying to uh

just show the industry that we can do things together when retailers uh car

about the the install like Rolland does uh like PF floors and you actually give

a darn about the installation community and you pour into them and invest into them uh you create a better environment

for a good quality team that we've been talking about this whole time and Jeremy just made a good point too he says that

a lot of like a lot of people come into flooring and they see the things that

you have now and they're like well I want that today and when you're talking to you know when you get these people

that are that have gone through you know some of these um essentially the jump

jump start certifications right and they want they want to join your team and you can show them yeah this is a marathon

you know this is not a Sprint it's it took me 20 years to get to where I am

and I'm not saying that it's going to take you 20 years but you have to start somewhere and you have to progressively

get better and that's where I think it's a great idea that you can say yeah you know this is what doing right now we're

going to log this stuff and then at after so much time that that seems to be one of the

missing pieces like we get guys in and we have no way like the old way there's

there's no indication of when I can go be you know step out even if I'm an

employee installer when am I qualified to go out and start running my own crew

for the company I work for when when when does that happen for me when the lead man says you're ready

exactly and if the Le man exactly and that's very opinionated

correctly I mean you you can't help but it be opinionated it's not a uh

measurable we need to make it measurable and that doesn't mean by the way that

everybody that passes should be an installer team lead but it means they

may have the skill set to be an installer team lead so if we track it this nothing's perfect but it's a big

step forward in being able to place guys make sure they're with good quality crews that's why we encourage everybody

the entire installation Community to join go career you don't have to do work across it you don't have to even get

your work but you'll have access to jumpstart you'll be able to um promote your own Hammer rating in

your skill set and um we're working real close to the industry and when I say the

industry I mean like decision makers in national accounts in in uh architectural

firms in manufacturing everybody wants to use certifications or some measurable until

our industry has a accepts the a a standardized form of what what makes a

good installer we say certification in the last CFI convention I was at that was talked about a lot the problem is

there's so many levels to certific that is at R1 R2 C1 C2 Master what what

level do you want and does the consumer understand that so go career distilled that into a h into a score called The

Hammer rating as you guys know and it's a zero to five metric uh that takes into

account all that so um I didn't intend on this going down that path but I did

just want to say when you're place when when we're bringing new people in one of the things retailers need to think about

over the next you know five or 10 years is how are you backfilling your labor sources and how are you encouraging your

current Crews to um hire and train the

new Workforce that's coming in our job is you know as I see it is the

FCF uh whether it's there there's multiple CFI all of the different

training entities their job is to uh find and train new installers and then

get them in the workforce where go career steps in is placement and tracking of their advancement so that we

know as an industry how many new people are coming in how many new people are

getting trained where are they at in their training and then make sure these guys are gamefully employed in a

environment that that's um you know a growth environment for them essentially

it's going to create an algorithm too that that um could give us some some answers on

better chances of success rate you just got to get more people on board and um I want to go back and I know we're running

over right now but uh we kept saying training are replacement um back when I

started that's how I was viewed 100% how it was viewed I was always a young person I was one of the younger leaders

when when when I when I was first introduced to the industry um but as my brother and and everybody came along and

I brought friends and family it was never training my replacement it was more or less like um training and

informing my successor right because if you can't build a team around you that that is is going to essentially be at

your level or take take your um place in a pecking

order so that way you can move on and work on other things to kind of set that pace that then you're not doing yourself any favors for individual growth or

business growth um and that's the same same thing with sales right you don't

hire sales staff and say you're going to be a Salesman for me for 25 years and that's all you're ever going to do you know you limit somebody like that

they'll find something else that they like to do and they'll go somewhere else and the same thing for for in installation and installers you're not

training a replacement you're you're teaching someone um how to how to to do what you know how to do so that way you

can work on something else and and get better and then you'll teach them that too and you you know what if they get

better than you at what you're doing awesome they're GNA teach you something problem is Jose is that

there's still still too many guys out there or people out there because we're

not just guys anymore too many people out there that don't have that mindset

that that hurts that hurts the industry as far as bringing new people in I'm a

firm believer I mean we can look at the boards itself all the all the boards

things we go on on the the different sites you re you read more negative things

about the industry and from the installers that's been doing it for 2030 years saying how bad it is on your back

how bad it is on this how bad it is this why in the world would a young guy stumble across the site and see all this

and go into this industry so we we need to correct that

we need to get to they're not taking accountability for the way that they were taught is what it is right so you

all the it was bad but I didn't lift I didn't do everything the right way well

let's be clear I mean a lot of the the tools and and uh from knee pads to crab

stretchers to uh the the lighter uh Power stretchers I mean everything's

gotten way better right I mean that is no there's no doubt about it like I used

crappy knee pads you know we didn't have I mean prones were around but they

weren't like known when I first got in I mean I I didn't use my first crab

stretcher which you know in in commercial putting together 100 foot seams and such uh sure saves the knee

from kicking it you know kicking stain nael and to get a bow and skew out of a

a commercial carpet is no fun you know no the the fact is hurts just talking

about it yeah our industry's gotten a lot better and we should be able to attract you

know the younger crowd we are look the younger crowd is coming I think that we

have to just embrace the placement Embrace and you don't have to use jump

start like find the guys that are interested I'm just saying there is a resource out there that is available

where we're pulling in from multiple entities and trying to put you know the guys that have shown interest and

graduated and putting them in front of the people who need the labor if you if you're not using that that's fine but

use when you get a new guy pour into them pour into them and and teach them

that not only the way you were taught but the new techniques the new things that are out there you know equip your

Crews uh if they're by the hour equip them with the with the good equipment with a good personal protective

equipment you know great knee pads will go a long dang way I I tell you there's there's an army of PR people out there

that'll tell you how much it's made a difference in their life uh from that all the way to the fact that we're not

lifting as often in any manner especially in the commercial world but

in general like roll good carpet is a the cells have I mean just look at the

charts you know the cells are way down on broadloom carpet um we're not I

remember times of carrying 60 70 80 foot drops up two sets of stairs with seven

guys and we're all breaking our backs now I'm carrying carpet or loading

carple into the elevator because there's no way a broadloom would have fit in that elevator but I can just roll in

some you know it's a lot better industry today than it was back in the day in a

lot of ways and sadly a little bit void of some of

that mentorship that Roland was talking about earlier I'm saying let's bring back that mentorship it doesn't have to

be your cousin it just needs to be somebody or your brother or your uncle or whatever it just needs to be somebody

who's interested in the flooring industry they they're your flooring brother right there automatically and

then take them into your team teach them the right ways and let's see if we

can Thrive together and and build back up our uh our industry we get compared

or I hear a lot of Industry people um you know talk about the way that the

electricians or the plumbers do it because we're somewhat envious of the fact that yeah there's a a skilled labor

shortage overall but we're we're hurting worse or more than the electrician the

the plumbing industry and the reason for that is there's a clear path to become a

journeyman installer or a journeyman uh Electric there's a clear path to become

a journeyman plumber we want to create that clear path in an industry that 87% of all the

flooring is installed by subcontractors 1099 people so how do you do that that's

what we're trying to tackle through technology and we have the technology um

so it's it's it's not going to happen overnight but I hope that um you know

our industry recognizes that there's there's creative ways to uh improve

ourselves we also you know we we need to embrace technology as a as an industry

um I know that those plaques on the wall you learn something new each time that was a new technology today it just

happens to be computers and things of that nature that we need to embrace a bit yeah and I like the way you said

that too as far as um they have a clear path you're right um and

we could keep make when I say we I mean I like I'm always I've always looked at it until right now you just made me

realize something I've always looked at it like they have a clear path because the state and the city mandates it they

have to pass inspections they have to do all that but you know what just because we don't have to pass a lot of that doesn't mean that we cannot create a

clear path that doesn't sense at all it doesn't make sense at all so there again I just learned something thank you sir

thanks Paul because uh it instead of pointing the finger and saying this is why we you don't have a structured uh

curriculum and a structured path to to success or or to a label instead of instead of doing that

it's why don't we you know what because we haven't written it yet that's why yeah nobody else's

fault well it's time we come together as an industry and both

create um and work together to more clearly Define how a new person that

they have something to work forward that they they know that in three to four years that they can have what you were

talking about Daniel they can have what you have so to speak from a you know the skills and abilities uh side of things

and work towards a a a meaningful rewarding career in flooring that I I

sometimes hear people say that with zero conviction I'm telling you it can be a rewarding fulfilling career to be a

floring in installer that doesn't mean you have to do it for 60 years it just means that that you can do

it for the time that you want to do it as long as you're trained properly

you're working with good people and that the industry overall values you as an

individual very well put Roland any last words sir we ran

over here about 15 minutes I'm going to close her down appreciate you coming on board and sharing your experience and

your your your uh you know your years of of doing this and and it's it's

enlightening it's always a pleasure to listen to guys who have been there done that well you know I guess in closing

what I would say is that you know to build yourself a good team takes dedication on on all sides the the

retailer the sales people the installer uh it takes dedication to make

a good team um you know and and as far as the

you know making this a path of success uh there again um it's something that

you you're going to want to do as an individual uh block out all the negativity and that and and uh you know

go ahead and learn to trade I wasn't here to know exactly how you're going to get the people to understand the path

that you're you're doing with a jump start but we'll talk more on that yeah I I I uh invite those

conversations and I want to you know listen to people who've uh been through

the struggle um both in residential and commercial but retail you know there's a

huge need um to to help the the the new

people to me it's a travesty of see CFI and fcca and wfca and all these acronyms

uh are working so hard to bring new people in but there's no systematic way to get them to the next step and I'm all

ears on uh input on how that can happen we've built a piece of technology that can be

molded and and used but we're not you know we're not like uh you know who's

the guy on Facebook floor God you know yeah Mario asked you text me hey

Mario you know so at the end of the day um I want to I just want to improve our

industry overall and I think together with some teamwork and jumping on this podcast the the dedication that Jose and

Daniel have and you're on here often to Roland and and just the dedication you

guys have for the industry is admirable I appreciate it I know that industry appreciat give yourself credit I

wouldn't be here right now talking on this podcast if it wasn't for you sir so give yourself a little bit of credit

well thank you well guys with that I'm going to close her out appreciate you rolling

guys as always thank you so much for coming on and uh being such a anchor for

this thing and uh the movement appreciate the uh input and it's always

enlightening so until next week in fact I'll be talking you guys a little bit

later but until next week we will see the audience and if you enjoy some of the content please give us a like And

subscribe I'm Not Too Proud to Beg uh it gets more uh people uh exposed to some

of the concepts that we're talking about and you know at the end of the day Shone

information what's that share with share with everyone you know share it share it comment if you like it give us a thumbs

up hell even if you don't like it give us a thumbs down either way it's all good it all

counts all right guys we'll see you guys next week see all right see you all right see you

[Music] Roland