The Huddle - Episode 69 - Flooring Dealers; Building a Strong Team
This week the guys are joined by special guest Roland Thompson (https://thompsonflooringmd.com) to discuss how he built his company, and what steps others can take to make sure they are building a strong team that will launch their business forward.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
Ser what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday
at 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
with me as always is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan we got a special
guest today Mr Roland Thomas of Thompson's floring out of tell me again
Thompson Thompson out of Frederick Maryland Frederick Maryland Frederick Maryland Roland's been on our uh podcast
a time or two and uh well several times always a great Insight uh he brings a
real good unique perspective uh from the retailers world
as well as training and just what it takes to be a highlevel uh flooring
installer so today is just about that retail
and uh the retailers and how you build a successful team around you I was talk do
you guys have an echo a little bit yes okay I'm going to turn some things try
and tune some things in here there we go hopefully that works um I was talking to
Roland right before the the podcast here getting a little bit more background uh
I've known Roland for I don't know four or five years we've been going seeing each other at shows andang out a little
bit one of the unique uh aspects that he does is a lot of these uh TV shows like
uh I believe it's Restaurant Impossible is one of them that you do I think you've done some others but his real
passion is in installation and he at the ripe age of 62 is that correct he
decided to go out 64 64 go out and start his own retail uh Loc where he sells
materials and labor provides labor services to and consultancy uh to clients so
today it's going to be a little bit less of my input because to be honest with
you I'm a I'm in the commercial world uh go Carrera which many of you know me
from is works for both retail and and uh commercial
contractors it's designed to do so however my expertise in flooring
particularly from a business subject matter uh is really more Consolidated around the commercial world so I'm
pleased to have Roland on the the call and um I know that the preferred
flooring gentlemen uh do a lot of residential work as well and Retail
possibly a little bit of that as well so I'm going to let you guys kind of talk about what it takes and Rolland I mean
you you you went from installer to like a the the lead of an installation team
at a at a well Carpet One I believe and
and then went on to start your your business as a retailer what was the what
are some of the key let's start here what have you learned through that
through that transition and what are some key pitfalls that you kind of can share with us that
that you know maybe help some other people avoid if they're looking to do the same thing you did well you know it
sort of think things worked out in in the right progression for me because you
know I when I you was out installing I installed a small bathroom for a retail
for a consumer you know or I'd do a big high I you know commercial building so I
was did both I worked both commercial and residential as far as the installing
and uh then when I went into the carpet one you know so I learned that aspect
and I you know and that's still my passion installers are my passion and but yet when I went into the carbet one
dealer and was handling all the all the stuff for them and I got to go to the sales training I got went to the Carpet
One conven ions I went to all went through all the sales trainings with Sam Alman and all those so I learned that
started learning that into the aspect of the of the business so it sort of
flip-flopped I still kept my hands in installation because I still would go out and do the custom work and certain
things but I was learn at that time I was learning the the the retail end of
it getting to meet the the the sales reps and the retail and all that of the
of the that end of the industry so on that side is that some of the pit some of the
lessons was get getting to know some of the the the sales reps and and actually
realizing that you needed some some soft skills some sales training some some of
that salesmanship that goes along with you know owning your own uh retail
business well you know it there again you know install you know you hear all the time installers make the best sales
people on and but I've seen so many installers try to go into sales and ended up going back in into into
installs because it does take a different mindset trying to sell and it
takes a different disposition trying to sell uh and and learning that from you
know you know going through the customer service orientations and all that kind of stuff learning how to talk to a con
consumer uh is another skill to learn so installers you know to be able to make
that transfer has to be willing to have open their mind up to learn that into the industry you know with us as
installers when we loaded up in the morning we are going out to make money and we knew we had a job we knew we're
gonna do something we're going to make some money and a salesperson has to learn that they have to learn rejection
because you're not going to close every sale because if you close every sale you're you're you're not pricing it right it's just not going to happen good
point it's just not going to happen so that salesperson can go out and talk to
10 people and and he's fortunate if he gets six of them you know and seven of
them there's there's always so so as you started doing this
as you started to really develop your sales skills and stuff and and you know
creating that soft uh you know knowing how to talk to customers and sell them flooring is one thing how did you use
installation and I'm going somewhere with this how did you use your installation prowess and and
knowledge um did that come in handy I should say when it came to selling sure
it does and it still does to this day and and that's why I'm a firm believer that sales people me and Jerry levenson
went over that know battled back and forth that sales people should know about installation because when you're
talking to a a consumer there's a fine line you can you you want them to
understand that you know understand what's going to happen in their home because it's their Castle so you're going to want them to understand what's
going to happen in their home and the more you know to be able to project that to them is going to give you a hands up
to somebody a salesperson or don't but in the same Realms you don't want to overwhelm them with too much te techn
you know terminology either so you don't take all those plaques off the wall and and stack them up in your truck and take
him out to show show I I make him come in and look no he he he just makes one post every day
yeah 365 Kevin is on Facebook he says uh as
seen on TV Mr Seen On TV you should have a shirt like that Roland yeah SE on TV
no so as you started down that path and you started to um you know grow the
business I think you stated earlier you know it kind of just took off you were thinking like hey I'm going to finish my
career out you know doing doing a few things almost as um I wouldn't call it a
hobby but it it almost seemed like you were going into it with you know muted
expectation and then it kind of took off for you you had to build a team around you which is really what this podcast
this this episode's about is how do you build a team as a retailer but more importantly or maybe more importantly is
how do installers become part of a good team and what what aspect on both sides
so how did you build it and then what's it take from the installer to be part of a good team and be valued by the
retailer well go ahead Jose you you put into no I
just like the question I like the question that he asked you I want to hear it from the master of disaster I don't anyway you know what what I did is
like I said I came in figuring you know I was going to just you I just install sell and install because I knew I had
picked up some saleing skins you know you figure I've been married now 49 years I know I can
sell I talked my wife into being able to stay with me but so in the same Realms
you know but when things started taking you know I had to
learn to then trust and and fortunately because I was where at the position I
was I knew you know was CFI trainings and everything else I knew what the better installers were uh but I still
had to learn the trust them and they had to learn to trust me when they came in so it come down to trust and feel
comfortable with each other you got they got to feel comfortable with me I got to feel comfortable with them and and then
when it came to where I had moved to where I couldn't even handle all the all
the measures anymore you know as one person uh you know then I went out and
and you know through being at the carpa one I knew who was one of the best
salesman considered one of the best salesmen in town that people hated to go up against and I made a phone call and
said okay hey I need a guy you ready to come and he say sure so it's it's
learning you know how to you know we're not just like last week I got a call
from from PJ's wife that PJ uh was was not doing well as he's better now so so
I can bring that up let me interject for the audience PJ's one of the like Premier trainers in the industry he he's
uh the uh owner of natural fiber um I forget the whole name but it's the
natur what go ahead nfic natur fiber insation certification yeah so it's
high-end you know dealing with wols and you can even learn how to do the uh you
know SE seams to pattern we went through that class it's a great class yeah so if
you if you're ever interested just to let every know he's talking about when he says PJ it's PJ Arthur with nfic so
yeah so so um I get a call on on Tuesday Morning from Eloise's wife saying that
uh he was taken the hospital and he had a course start in Wednesday there there's guys from Canada and all that in
and needed the course done my point is to this was I had the
capability because I have a good team to know that I could move things around get in the car
and drive down there and put it on for them because I had installers that were going to take care of my customers back
here I had a Salesman who's going to be able to take care of everything
business-wise and so I packed up went down and and did the class for him and came back Saturday so so it provides
freedom is what you're saying I mean this is a very specific instance where the freedom came out to help a friend
and a a you know not only a personal friend of yours but also a industry friend right and able to go help PJ out
Freedom looks You Know M multiple different facets of that but you were able to build a team that's able to run
the company uh in your absence how did you do that let's get to
some nuts and bolts what are you looking for from your let's start with the
salesman what what do you look a good sales for example I just hang up so there again
you know when I started putting the team together yeah I I went to the installers
that you know I used at the carpet one dealer you know installers that I know went through the certifications know
what they're they know how they had to know what I expected out of them when they go into my consumer's home and what
is that let's drill down what is that what you expect of them what I expect
them is to have a do a good job because everybody wants them to do a good job
but I when when they the next day or the two days later sometimes it's two days
all right we make a phone call to our our retail customers all right or any of
them and my questions are a did they do a good job so they're expected to do
that they expect they know my quality level and they they're expected to reach reach towards that the best they can and
it sounds like that starts with the salesperson then correct it starts with the salesperson setting the expectations
to the client all right so he's got to know that all right then I'm GNA ask him
a question were they Pleasant did you enjoy them being in their home I expect
them to treat my customers with K gloves you know is Sir
home you're a guest and they expect I expect him to treat him that way and then I'll then I go did they clean up
and leave your house better than it was when they came those you and I want you
know if I any of those they give me a negative review I'm going to the installer and saying hey you didn't
reach it this time now do I expect them to be perfect no I'm not but I expect
them to strive to do their best and they know that's what I expect out of them yeah and you have a right a good
followup and an expectation so it starts with your your finding just to kind of
unpack this a little bit so getting a good salesman is getting somebody who a
knows floring uh or can be trained to know floring uh and B can set you uh
enduser expectations or homeowner expectations because that is probably
one of and I want to bring that point out because that's I think Daniel and
Jose you guys are in the Facebook groups but that's one of the the complaints from a lot of installers out there is
that the salesman promises the world and then it's it's impossible for the
installer to get out there and and reach those expectations so I think that's important
that A salesperson you know manages the expectations of the homeowner or the end
user and uh so that that point is is is worthy of noting right to talk on the
sales end of it what you're saying is this is what I have in place okay with
with my salesperson now fortunately there again I knew him he was at the
carbal one dealer for years prior to that his dad had a na was a Navy dealer for years he grew up in
the sales portion so product knowledge and everything else I mean somebody
walks in with a with a flooring and he'll look at it and go oh that's this this this this he knows that you know he
can tell them what it was when it was sold and if they make it anymore you know but what makes him what him and I
have in place all right is like you said about the how important it is me being on the installation end a salesperson
being able to relate so two things we have in set in place one is If he if he goes out and looks at a job and he has
any doubt whatsoever of of something that can be done should be done might get done what
a trans what transition should go on this door he brings it to me he'll take pictures brings it to me there sometimes
with me being gone the way I'm gone he can't bring it to me so if I'm not here for him to bring it to me he then needs
to talk to the head head installer from one of the crews because we have multiple you know workroom type things
the have one guy Alfredo has seven guys and and Edwin has eight guys all right
but he needs to take it to them and say hey here's the pictures I took here what this to be done or if he has any doubt
line up for them to meet him at the job and go over it prior to pricing the job
so so uh that's what we have set up here so you know I don't depend on you know
he never installed and you can only teach him so much about installation without them if they haven't done done
it so if there's any doubt in what should be priced
out whether it should be priced out what should be priced out what's needed it's in place for him then to seek out the
expert that knows that so that's how we have set up if you don't know ask that's
right 100% what's your guys's experience in in dealing with that portion when
you're when you're selling to an end user um how do you guys deal with the
similar situation you have somebody going out and selling a job do you guys
do that um still you guys do that coffee and do you guys do that and then
bounce things off one another or do you have a separate salesperson that goes out and sells your pro your residential
projects no that would be us a lot of a lot of the residential is him when I'm
dealing with residential customers I I guess I I don't really know because
I just go in there explain to them what we're going to do I mean what it is in the nutshell is is
Daniel has patience for computers he doesn't have patience for people sometimes understand his strengths and
his weaknesses um I'm definitely more of a people person so it just makes more sense to put myself out there um
and I don't I look at it from from installer perspective I don't ever in I
don't ever and I will never intentionally put an installer at risk or or jeopardize a project because I'm
over speaking um but I I also understand some of the process so I do not um I I
under promise and try to overd deliver right I I still try to do that on on residential and Commercial um but at the
same time is um I try to be thorough and and the way Daniel said to explain everything I I do
my very best to do that um if I don't know I say I don't know if I do know um
I try to articulate my words in a manner that will
fit um our conversation right like I don't want to start droing technical terms to someone where it's going to go
over their head so I try to uh to say it in terms that they're goingon to understand um sometimes just and uh it's
just it's just one of those things where I try to find a solution and instead of uh instead of shooting down their ideas
or saying hey I know that you have this material in mind but we can't do that here I try to find a solution and if
they don't understand it i' explain it to them that way um and as far as the installs I think
the what I'm finding is that no matter how thorough I am with the client
there's always something that they act like oh I didn't know that I was supposed to do
that I didn't know this I didn't know that they they they they like in residential you tend to see that a
lot more than commercial um but you like you're dealing directly with the end user
there's there's no in between it's you and them and and that's why but I try to set everybody up for Success so they
forgot they had to move that water bed and safe yeah we'll have all the furniture moved by the time you get here
and then it gets to that day oh yeah I didn't wake up early yeah
so it it's it's it's a work in progress and and I think that I tell everybody
I'm not a Salesman Daniel tells me otherwise other people tell me otherwise but like I I just try to help find
Solutions and and Rin well salesman's not a dirty word I mean if you're a good
one you you set expectations you tell the client what what they're going to get and you you sell things at a fair
price and and all these key aspects you also work through all the challenges
that may come up or the um the uh rebuttal from from the enduser or
homeowner right so it's not a bad term if you're good at sales you're a Salesman so I'll call you a
Salesman that's fine I'm never I'm never offended by it I'll be honest I'm never offended by it Edo wants to know Eduardo
wants to know why you've been crying all day hiding your eyes I almost put on my
sunglasses so we could all match and you just I go put on mine we're all just sunglassed out I have I had I had
surgery in my eye uh this morning they put a laser in there and shot to the back of my eye so the light is is really
killing me today well you look cool I think it's a look that works for the podcast and you could just be the
sunglass dude on the podcast and Mario's on says hello Mr Rollin and then texted
him right after that I see you I I had a meeting right after my
surgery this morning and I went there and I I I assured the the the young lady that I wasn't said I I feel like such a
tool right now but the my eye hurts really bad so I got to try to protect it
um so well I I think they look good on you so um it sounds like Rand and uh
from what you and Jose are saying I mean it's that first step though is really important for the salesperson to be the
right you know it's the first person the homeowner is going to see often and and
they they have a lot of responsibility to set the job up correctly and make sure that the that the installer is set
up for success I hear Jose and Daniel both say that a lot on the podcast in
different topics it's about setting up your installer for Success um so what does that mean to you
guys what does it mean to set the installer up for Success well um oh go ahead ran go ahead
you know when when you you know as a salesperson any you know we each have
and and that's when I watch guys say well we don't need the salesman or we don't need the store you know each
person has a duty to do and for the salesperson like you said they they
enter the store you know it's the duty of the owner to get advertised get
people into the into the place then when the when they come in it's the duty of the salesman to greet them right to know
how to handle to know how but he also needs enough that's what I said you can get to techn technical with a client
that's what Jose even said you know you're gonna watch what he says you can get too technical with them you need to
give them the information you know of what you know and the pros and cons of product and all that kind of stuff that
comes with selling well then you got they got to set them up with understanding what they're going to go
through when when the install comes and and that's where you need to learn you need to learn if you have tear up you
know that it it it's it's it could be Dusty you know we're protected best the thing but dust can find a place to go
all right there you know and give them ideas and then we're going to take up and we don't know what's under there it
could be this you know get them ready for that in case there's unforeseen things uh and getting them prepped to
know for the installer and then the biggest key is having that all written down for the
installer all right if an installer has a distinctive work
order that explains everything you told the the consumer not the surprise that
the consumer says you told them everything that was discussed all right you know whether you're moving the
furniture whether you're gonna you know paint the paint the banister whether you're gonna do this a detailed layout
and detailed um of what needs to be done then he's prepared I can look at it in
the morning before I leave and go okay this is what I got to do a he knows what
supplies to get all right he knows he's going to need Camen tape he knows he's going to need this specialized glue he
knows he's gonna need that nothing's worse than getting to a job and find out there wasn't something on on the work
order and now you got to run and tell consumer I got to run I'm gonna be gone for an hour I'll be back you know so
that's getting him ready for Success he's there prepar pred to do his job the
way that the job is supposed to be done and you prepared him for that and so
that that to me is is what a job of a Salesman is is not only to sell the job
but have that have the you know the installer you know because an
installer I tell I tell dealers as a Salesman you can mess
up and you you can overcome that if your installer messes up because you didn't
give him the stuff he needs to do and do it right a customer gets mad and might
not come back to your store I as an installer can take take a customer who's mad at a
salesperson and turn them around to love the store because of what I did and
so that success that chain that needs to go there as as a as a retailer you need
to make sure you have each one trained properly to to enhance the other
one sounds like a team effort on there too and that's a great example that's part of being a team is um is is
understanding that uh we all have we all have guidelines as the installer the the
salesperson but it's also understanding that we're all human we're all going to forget something and being able to um uh
being able to smooth things over when something doesn't go as planned um and
and that's actually coming from the installation side having to have the
salesperson back more often than not um and learning together because they might not know the installation side at all
right they're just good at selling um and that's where communication comes in and you gota well and that's where
that's where that's where the team comes in you guys were just talking about I mean I earlier I said you know often the
salesperson is the first thing that the homeowner sees or um you know in many
cases anyway and the installer is typically the last person they're going to see so that shows you your team you
got the owner as Rollin said that has to get the traffic in in first Contact is
say A salesperson and not always but in bigger stores that's certainly true so
in bigger retail ERS and then but very often the installers the last taste in
the the retail uh you know the consumer's mouth so to speak so it's like the last flavor of the store that
you have is the installer and what's important is that the installer
understands that you know and I think that stores that value their labor do a
good job of reminding them how important they are and finding creative ways to
incentivize them to do not only do a good job from an installation perspective and a qualities you know
standpoint but also from like you said Rand were they Pleasant how how you know
being Pleasant being um being in a guest in someone's house means that you're
you're you're thankful for being there you're grateful and you know installers
if we can learn to be grateful for that day's work uh be grateful for that
project and and show it through our actions and through our attitude with the consumer whether that's frankly
whether that's retail or commercial but um you know I was having a conversation
earlier with a guy and and and I was like you know there's two different levels of professionalism when you're or
two different ways of professionalism you can be pretty rough neck uh on a
commercial job but you better have your safety professionalism down you better have hard hat safety glasses work boots
High Biz vest know your safety stuff you may not talk the best and probably shouldn't be in a retail environment but
you take the other side and the retail installer has to be more personable and
pleasant and and understanding that you're a guest in the house and uh but
you know they're not wearing high VI vests and safety glasses and hard hats and work boots and things of that nature
so there's two different ways to be professional as a as an installer um and
you you know the beauty is you kind of pick your path I I did both early on and and I just gravitated to the to the
commercial world uh maybe it's because I was a bit of a butthead when I was in my 20s and and didn't always uh present
myself the best but I also understand what that's like so you know installers
out there you are a piece of the sales process at the end of the day you're part of the team and the more that
retail I'm putting some words in the retailers mouth here but I believe that the more that a retailer Can
U include the installer as part of their team and make sure they know that they're part of the team and make sure
that they know how important they are you know I think that goes a long way yeah I was going to say something about
that because I I think that you're you're talking about building a team right you got to kind of make sure that
your your core values aligned and then that translates over into the workspace because there's you know
plenty of people that we have done work for throughout the years uh kind of the same thing it goes one of two ways it's
either hey this is happening on this project and then they come back with what do we need to do to make this right
do whatever you need to do right like let's figure this out together or they say no do it the way I'm telling you
that's it well you know people PE just like you know old thing and when you you're
becoming a Salesman or you're coming dealing with the public you know they say people like to buy from people they
like yeah and and so they like and trust you know so it's the same thing with the
installation Realms people like who's in their home who they like um prime
example was when I first went into the carpet one and my job was to you know they had had some trouble with the in
some of the installation teams and trying to decide what was going on their number one produ productive
crew I got rid of and their lowest productive crew I
told them they needed to keep and and they they were they were hourly at the
time they were hourly employees and the number one production
crew lost them so much work customers would not come back to that store he
when you say productive crew just for clarification is that just the one that
got the most stuff put in right right and his work was fine it wasn't you know but he he he that crew would go out and
and and if you had a bigger job that's who they sent because that's that who would get it done the other crew
wouldn't get that done it' take two days or almost two days to do that job so he's the one who went but he
lost so you know they lost work that guy he the leag guy for that company for
that Crew He had husbands that came in looking for him to beat the crap out of him on how he treat he treated their W
their wife while they were at work he was you know a customer would come in and and he would just say get out of my
way I'm here to do a job leave me alone he had a bad disposition he would talk to him nasty and I kept telling him yes
he might get the most work done for you but you're losing business people aren't
coming back all right the other the on the other hand part of the reason why Ron and
Randy didn't didn't get much done in the day is they became friends and would
have lunch with the people they loved them every customer come back into the
store you know I said he's bringing you work back the other one isn't so you
know that's part of pulling that team you have to recognize that you have to
to analyze that and bring them on the team there was no way I was going to bring the other guy on the on the team
when I came in there there was just no way he wasn't going to change his ways yeah so so why is all
this why is all this important I mean you know retailers honestly you're not you're not
competing against one another really a lot of the retailers are competing against the big box stores who yeah
where they really lack is the guidance when you go into a box store I won't name any
but you go in there for guidance uh you need guidance in floring there's too
many different products that are made or manufactured in different ways that have
different use cases and you go into a retailer for
that guidance that you wouldn't get at a box store but if you the one thing that box stores uh have really worked on is
the customer service aspect so if retailers are not good at both sides
kind of guiding the consumer on good product selections that fit you know the
long-term uh use case for their house and or um or a given
room and also be pleasant be be um be
enjoyable to work with now I'm not saying the box stores have great Crews that do that but my point here is you
you want to be in in kind of checking both of those boxes as a retailer you
don't have the marketing budget often that you know the big box stores do that
get on TV and commercials and all this stuff you got to beat them on customer experience and if you can beat them on
customer experience that customer comes back and back and back and has no desire to go and get this watered down version
of what you offer and so that's why why this is an important podcast is you know
retailers have to understand you're not competing against one another in reality you're competing against these big box
do and and your guys's job and this is why I keep deferring to you guys because I'm not I'm not in the residential
retail World here's go ahead Roland pardon me
here's you talking about that here's one of the things I use all the time when when the person's been in into a box
store all right is and this is part of being a team and and showing as a team
when when I go to you go to Clos or my salesman go to close we can say well you know Edwin's coming out and going to be
to installer on your job next week or whenever I'm gonna have I'm gonna ass Edwin to your job you know and he's
great guy he's got a wife and he's got you know kids and and you can build him up you know say you know and he's going
to do you a great job you you know he knows what our standards are and everything else feed
it a box store can't do that because that salesperson has no idea who is GNA
go out no clue no clue and not not saying that the guy was a bad installer
but they can't give that Personal Touch that a retailer can do if he builds the
right team and he builds the right experience and he knows his team you know I mean it it you know if I show up
if I show up at Alfredo's job site I know what Alfredo drinks I know what he
likes you know and so I might bring bring them out of soda you know and say
here I was on my way in I thought I'd stop by here you are you're building that team and and box stores can't do
that where where you as a might have their favorites they might have their favorites every now and then but you
know not many not you know they they might get to know one here or there but most of them nowadays who he knows is
the head of the work room yeah not not the guy actually going out to the job site most of right he might know what
you know what beer that the guy from the from the work room likes but he doesn't he won't know the guy that's actually
out there on that on that consumer's house most of the time more time so I do
I know who's I'm sending you know and even if you don't know the day you so
you close the deal you'll say well when we schedule it with you we'll let you know who's coming we'll let you know
what their name is and who's goingon to be at your home and that's something they can't do even on the commercial
side we we had someone in there last week and you know we have uh pictures of
crystal hanging up all over like from when she was in the competition and then it was a a female and she was like is
she going to be at this project and we were like she might be yeah she's like oh my God I'm so excited [Laughter]
you know um so I want to tag on to what Rin was saying about about that one
thing I'm noticing and my mother worked at a big box store for for some time some years uh and not necessarily in the
flooring portion of it but one thing that they are really good at is their retail management like they have a
system in place that would be hard for a smaller place like like me to follow
because the their team is just so vast um so so they're able to to to do that
um and and it sounds like uh we can learn from each other they can learn from us we can learn from them right and it sounds like uh being a smaller store
we we can personalize The Experience right we're selling an experience along with um a a good installation or or or
an installation period and like Rin said they can't guarantee that there's going to be a specific person or crew they
just say it's going to be done this time so I you know as far as the process on that I can't I can only guess how it's
done right um I can't say this is how it's done but um I think uh learning
learning from from from their retail experience um would would probably benefit uh a smaller store as
well and this is myew by the way that walked in he put a hat on because we were talking about we just happen to be
talking about uh uh professionalism right and and you had mentioned that and I was thinking yeah you're right there
is two levels but I think it's professionalism combined with the proper etiquette and I
think that that's what it is it's a combination of the two um so his etiquette was hide his wild crazy hair
you want see well I think I I think that you know a lot of the key points that are are you
know being brought out here is you know the I'm not trying to crap on box stores
but the personalized experience um oftentimes even there you
you start with one salesman you end with another uh it's that kind of a thing
um and that not that you can always you know guarantee which crew is going to be
on a on your job even as a small store um sometimes you can you know get get
close but the the point is is that you can talk about your guys you know them on a personal level and a lot of the
stores use you know larger work rooms we know that and you just don't know who is
going to come to your home and so there's great reasons to work with
quality retailers the the purpose of this was to bring out some of the the needs or the
the important parts of being a great retailer and and how to build that up so
that both the install side and the sell side are successful and they both you
know kind of sharing that success the more that's understood the more that every that team kind of gets more
cohesive um so working on or diving into labor a
little bit more what what's the status of labor for you ring I mean uh your
your main Crews that you use are they what what kind of activity from a are
they bringing in new guys or is there some young C young guys uh young people people coming into your uh the cruise or
or what's that look like for you well you know it and I'm not you I guess I
try to learn how to word I want to word this right because I don't want anybody to take
anything we talk about the insallation insulation crisis and is there an
insulation crisis to a certain degree yes there is but I think we miss
miscount on on people that's getting into industry to a certain degree
because it's nothing for me to see uh in one of the few of the
installers I use that every time their 11 10th 11 12th year year old
grade son or whatever is not going to school he's here helping his dad so
there is a lot of younger guys being you know in the exposed to to the floring industry
you know it's like the old days you know back when I started in 72 you know the
and that's why you saw so many guys saying I'm third generation I'm fourth generation I'm second generation that's
how a lot of people came into the industry it's still being
done but not as seen as much anymore because of the ethnic group that's
bringing them in okay uh the guy
the guys certain guys well that's below
my my my son so I'm not bringing him in but there's still some being brought in
well certainly not to the same level that it's been you know from the past and so but yeah but yeah but so there is
you're seeing in even my trainings I'm seeing more and more you
know more and more than I have been in the last five years younger people at the trainings
now whether or not the trainings are getting to be known more and that about
coming could be part of it but it's still you know just the one I went down
for PJ there there was uh three of them
that were probably under 30 you know yeah I guess you know the
the generational side of things is a double-edged sword uh it can you you can
have you can bring in new guys uh you can bring in family members and such but
also it didn't work like we do have I mean there's no doubt there is a if the
installation shortage is not felt by certain people by in certain areas or by
certain parts of floring yet it will be um oh yeah it is because people are
retire are going to retire over the next five to 10 years at a rate that we've never seen and if we don't start
backfilling their talent there's going to be a problem and there's just not enough friends and family in those
Realms uh and with my son's case you know he worked in the company since he was 13 and then you know wanted to do
something else and that happens as well uh there I will say one thing that seems
to be relevant today is that you know we're not getting replaced with AI I
know that's a buzzword the AI stuff but it's true there's a lot of stuff that's getting much easier a lot of desk jobs
and coding and things of this nature that is being starting to be replaced with AI we're going to have jobs for a
long time guys they're not coming after the the carpet and flooring guys for the robots aren't being trained to do our
job it's it's the Auto Workers and and things like that the push button kind of
scenarios there's too much too much skill in what we do and it's not not
enough meat on the bone so to speak yeah we don't have the cookie cutter hand skills is what it is and every single
job no matter if it if it is um a repeat or you're doing some Assisted Living where every room is the same it's not
the same like it's everything is slightly different can um can't do what we do on an assembly line you can use
assembly line mentality with the right crew but you you cannot replicate and duplicate um like an assembly line and
that's what makes you gotta have some some thought goes into almost every job and you know R you had made a good point
too about the under 30 year olds you're seeing is a lot of the trainings and
education classes and all that that's all hinged based off of what the the
retail uh and and salesperson is requiring of their installation curs um
you know if if they don't advocate for continued education to the guys that
they're hiring the guys that they're hiring will never think about it right they're just learning they're and and
they're making du there nobody's requiring it and a lot of what we do across the us nobody requires their
certification or training um for what we do we we we get certified or training so that way we can be more efficient and
better at what we do right in hopes that it does separate us and helps us stand out um and I think that if if more
people retailers and and just more people in general were on the same page
as that then we would have a lot more unsolicited exposure to our industry and
that's what would really help us out and well it's starting to you know that that boats CH turning slowly where you know
the quality of the installer is starting to matter uh more and more not not from
what they say they can do but what they can actually do and certifications and trainings and and having those
credentials um you know and also displaying them in a way where it it's
it's really tough when you start talking about all these plaques on on Roland's
wall yeah Jeremy says came with the picture frame Jeremy said that um our industry
brings people in and just calls them a Helper and then has them do grunt work and then when when you just say hey
that's my helper and then they're just in that routine of grunt work grunt work grunt work and every grunt person is
always like I want to install something right and then they don't get that chance and that's what makes them kind
of want to be like why am I even going to be here if you're not going to teach me how to do something which I think is
uh and and then you talk about certifications which is you wanted to show us something today didn't you Well
here here's my the the whole thing at at the end of the day when you're when you're talking about training people and
you know on the job training we we had there was a pretty big stigma around the
industry when I first got in that I didn't want to train my replacement yeah um that that's starting
to wne I'm hoping that you know as the uh age of the installer now like 25
years later you know the 30y olds that I knew then are you know now
55 uh the fact is is that you got to want to train the Next Generation that's
my that's our rally cry to installers out there but how do you trap that
there's and how do new install or how do installers find new health and and all
these things you can see all the problems uh all these issues kind of brought up on the different face
Facebook groups where the the the crews are trying to hire off of off of uh you
know Craigslist or whatever well the retailer has a responsibility in my opinion to to help their Crews to work
through the uh the maturity of new installers you know go Carrera what I
was going to show you is jump start I mean it's a job board that we created at go Carrera where all of the new trained
installers and I should say all but we're working with CFI fcica uh Inc all of the training
entities to bring a board and give companies like preferred flooring or our
flooring company steart Associates or Rollins flooring company if you hire by the hour you can get on jump start and
hire directly off a jump start from one of the recent graduates one of the candidates that are saying Hey I want to
be in floring I went through this course I may not be you know I'm not a I'm not an installer but I need to be with
someone and the crews on Goku are able to hire straight off of jumpstart with a
minimum of a hammer rating of one or above that way you can make sure that
the blind's not leading the blind so to speak that a trained installer so jumpstar just to share briefly a quick
screenshot I'm actually going to share this during the podcast here this is what jump start's coming to be where
these guys have graduated you know from different
um most of these are fcef graduates and
it's simple to jump in look at their profile uh you can review their profile what they're interested in what they did
you can schedule an interview go through find out if they have you know
their work workour desires uh you know do they want to work full or part-time
just more about the information that you are looking for uh when you're talking
about hiring somebody new out of the industry the key here is that you know
these these there's been a lot of effort in bringing these guys in and there's not a real good way for placement and
I'll stop the share I just wanted to give a quick kind kind of you know um
sneak peek into what happens when when you can be when you connect everything
and the key here in my opinion is getting these guys placed and retailers
as well as our our flooring you know our installer Network at go Carrera can hire
them uh directly retailers it's a very cheap fee to have access to jump start
our goal is to give an outlet for people to be placed with retailers and uh
installation crews in a meaningful and and in in a learning environment so that
they can uh move forward uh on the back side of that you know if you hire off a
jump start you're required to um to uh report their skill advancement so on a
monthly basis you go in and you file out fill out a report stating what you what
you've shown them and how they're progression is coming so when somebody like Rand hires Rand do you have any
employee installers or is it all um 1099 crw all 10 all 1099 crw so when those
Crews hire new guys um you know through our program you
you report on their on their advancement and where they're going if they're not
doing reports that's that's I like that you know what I mean and and so you can make sure that guys are trained um there
has to be a way to place and track the advancement of new installers and then
reward them based on that uh on their performance so one there too is uh
the you're already going into a pool of people who are interested in the industry right you're already going into
into that you're you're not gambling with someone who's just a friend of a friend or a family friend or a family
who might be interested um you you're you're you're actually drawing from a
from a a network of people who are actively showing interest in your field
and I it's so funny that they said or posted or shared that and today the conversation was find like minded driven
individuals you'll increase your chances of success you know my success is theirs their success is mine it's a shared it's
a shared effort I I like that yeah yeah and I mean are there is everybody on
there going to be uh home runs no but you got a much better I mean they've completed one of
the introductory courses in the flooring and at least they are showing interest
in our industry and then if we can place them correctly get them with good guys get them with good Crews get them with
good companies at the end of the day that's a better recipe than just kind of
making it up at least you have some kind of a recipe to make your cake yeah uh you're not just throwing a bunch of of
ingredients together and hoping something works out and that's what we've done for so long so having a
systematic way of advancing people through their their career and then you know ideally I'm I'm working with the
industry and I really would like for them to have an assessment so after say two years being as a uh a jump starter
working for a crew or working for a company that after a couple of years you can take you know a certification or an
assessment course uh training and uh somewhat like the I
mean we we need to take cues from some of the industries that are doing it pretty well in the Electric electrical
world you can test out and be a journeyman after four years that doesn't mean you're going to be that you're
automatically a journeyman after four years but you can test out and become a journeyman after four years of being an
apprentice we're trying to create that a similar uh environment but a digital
environment that allows guys to get progressively better and then after say
two to four years they can test out one of the entities test them maybe it's rolling going through a skills
assessment test and and Hands-On uh certification not that they have a true
certification from maybe um you know like whether it's CFI or uh CTF or any
of those you may not be CTI certified but what it is is saying this guy's
skill assessment is here and he's an actual installer he's an installation
professional at this point and we have us you you got a potential for a new crew lead um maybe they go through some
soft skills training as well and we have to start replacing the great Crews that
are out there not replacing them but backfilling them so with when they're ready to leave that they can have
confidence that a their knowledge has been passed down I can't think of a more
uh honorable thing than all the stuff that's up in here that I get to pass it down to somebody and now my installation
techniques and what I learned throughout my career and all my plaques got pushed
down to other people that's a that's a that's a feather of my cap when I decide
that I'm done and I'm not going to install anymore so we're trying to uh
just show the industry that we can do things together when retailers uh car
about the the install like Rolland does uh like PF floors and you actually give
a darn about the installation community and you pour into them and invest into them uh you create a better environment
for a good quality team that we've been talking about this whole time and Jeremy just made a good point too he says that
a lot of like a lot of people come into flooring and they see the things that
you have now and they're like well I want that today and when you're talking to you know when you get these people
that are that have gone through you know some of these um essentially the jump
jump start certifications right and they want they want to join your team and you can show them yeah this is a marathon
you know this is not a Sprint it's it took me 20 years to get to where I am
and I'm not saying that it's going to take you 20 years but you have to start somewhere and you have to progressively
get better and that's where I think it's a great idea that you can say yeah you know this is what doing right now we're
going to log this stuff and then at after so much time that that seems to be one of the
missing pieces like we get guys in and we have no way like the old way there's
there's no indication of when I can go be you know step out even if I'm an
employee installer when am I qualified to go out and start running my own crew
for the company I work for when when when does that happen for me when the lead man says you're ready
exactly and if the Le man exactly and that's very opinionated
correctly I mean you you can't help but it be opinionated it's not a uh
measurable we need to make it measurable and that doesn't mean by the way that
everybody that passes should be an installer team lead but it means they
may have the skill set to be an installer team lead so if we track it this nothing's perfect but it's a big
step forward in being able to place guys make sure they're with good quality crews that's why we encourage everybody
the entire installation Community to join go career you don't have to do work across it you don't have to even get
your work but you'll have access to jumpstart you'll be able to um promote your own Hammer rating in
your skill set and um we're working real close to the industry and when I say the
industry I mean like decision makers in national accounts in in uh architectural
firms in manufacturing everybody wants to use certifications or some measurable until
our industry has a accepts the a a standardized form of what what makes a
good installer we say certification in the last CFI convention I was at that was talked about a lot the problem is
there's so many levels to certific that is at R1 R2 C1 C2 Master what what
level do you want and does the consumer understand that so go career distilled that into a h into a score called The
Hammer rating as you guys know and it's a zero to five metric uh that takes into
account all that so um I didn't intend on this going down that path but I did
just want to say when you're place when when we're bringing new people in one of the things retailers need to think about
over the next you know five or 10 years is how are you backfilling your labor sources and how are you encouraging your
current Crews to um hire and train the
new Workforce that's coming in our job is you know as I see it is the
FCF uh whether it's there there's multiple CFI all of the different
training entities their job is to uh find and train new installers and then
get them in the workforce where go career steps in is placement and tracking of their advancement so that we
know as an industry how many new people are coming in how many new people are
getting trained where are they at in their training and then make sure these guys are gamefully employed in a
environment that that's um you know a growth environment for them essentially
it's going to create an algorithm too that that um could give us some some answers on
better chances of success rate you just got to get more people on board and um I want to go back and I know we're running
over right now but uh we kept saying training are replacement um back when I
started that's how I was viewed 100% how it was viewed I was always a young person I was one of the younger leaders
when when when I when I was first introduced to the industry um but as my brother and and everybody came along and
I brought friends and family it was never training my replacement it was more or less like um training and
informing my successor right because if you can't build a team around you that that is is going to essentially be at
your level or take take your um place in a pecking
order so that way you can move on and work on other things to kind of set that pace that then you're not doing yourself any favors for individual growth or
business growth um and that's the same same thing with sales right you don't
hire sales staff and say you're going to be a Salesman for me for 25 years and that's all you're ever going to do you know you limit somebody like that
they'll find something else that they like to do and they'll go somewhere else and the same thing for for in installation and installers you're not
training a replacement you're you're teaching someone um how to how to to do what you know how to do so that way you
can work on something else and and get better and then you'll teach them that too and you you know what if they get
better than you at what you're doing awesome they're GNA teach you something problem is Jose is that
there's still still too many guys out there or people out there because we're
not just guys anymore too many people out there that don't have that mindset
that that hurts that hurts the industry as far as bringing new people in I'm a
firm believer I mean we can look at the boards itself all the all the boards
things we go on on the the different sites you re you read more negative things
about the industry and from the installers that's been doing it for 2030 years saying how bad it is on your back
how bad it is on this how bad it is this why in the world would a young guy stumble across the site and see all this
and go into this industry so we we need to correct that
we need to get to they're not taking accountability for the way that they were taught is what it is right so you
all the it was bad but I didn't lift I didn't do everything the right way well
let's be clear I mean a lot of the the tools and and uh from knee pads to crab
stretchers to uh the the lighter uh Power stretchers I mean everything's
gotten way better right I mean that is no there's no doubt about it like I used
crappy knee pads you know we didn't have I mean prones were around but they
weren't like known when I first got in I mean I I didn't use my first crab
stretcher which you know in in commercial putting together 100 foot seams and such uh sure saves the knee
from kicking it you know kicking stain nael and to get a bow and skew out of a
a commercial carpet is no fun you know no the the fact is hurts just talking
about it yeah our industry's gotten a lot better and we should be able to attract you
know the younger crowd we are look the younger crowd is coming I think that we
have to just embrace the placement Embrace and you don't have to use jump
start like find the guys that are interested I'm just saying there is a resource out there that is available
where we're pulling in from multiple entities and trying to put you know the guys that have shown interest and
graduated and putting them in front of the people who need the labor if you if you're not using that that's fine but
use when you get a new guy pour into them pour into them and and teach them
that not only the way you were taught but the new techniques the new things that are out there you know equip your
Crews uh if they're by the hour equip them with the with the good equipment with a good personal protective
equipment you know great knee pads will go a long dang way I I tell you there's there's an army of PR people out there
that'll tell you how much it's made a difference in their life uh from that all the way to the fact that we're not
lifting as often in any manner especially in the commercial world but
in general like roll good carpet is a the cells have I mean just look at the
charts you know the cells are way down on broadloom carpet um we're not I
remember times of carrying 60 70 80 foot drops up two sets of stairs with seven
guys and we're all breaking our backs now I'm carrying carpet or loading
carple into the elevator because there's no way a broadloom would have fit in that elevator but I can just roll in
some you know it's a lot better industry today than it was back in the day in a
lot of ways and sadly a little bit void of some of
that mentorship that Roland was talking about earlier I'm saying let's bring back that mentorship it doesn't have to
be your cousin it just needs to be somebody or your brother or your uncle or whatever it just needs to be somebody
who's interested in the flooring industry they they're your flooring brother right there automatically and
then take them into your team teach them the right ways and let's see if we
can Thrive together and and build back up our uh our industry we get compared
or I hear a lot of Industry people um you know talk about the way that the
electricians or the plumbers do it because we're somewhat envious of the fact that yeah there's a a skilled labor
shortage overall but we're we're hurting worse or more than the electrician the
the plumbing industry and the reason for that is there's a clear path to become a
journeyman installer or a journeyman uh Electric there's a clear path to become
a journeyman plumber we want to create that clear path in an industry that 87% of all the
flooring is installed by subcontractors 1099 people so how do you do that that's
what we're trying to tackle through technology and we have the technology um
so it's it's it's not going to happen overnight but I hope that um you know
our industry recognizes that there's there's creative ways to uh improve
ourselves we also you know we we need to embrace technology as a as an industry
um I know that those plaques on the wall you learn something new each time that was a new technology today it just
happens to be computers and things of that nature that we need to embrace a bit yeah and I like the way you said
that too as far as um they have a clear path you're right um and
we could keep make when I say we I mean I like I'm always I've always looked at it until right now you just made me
realize something I've always looked at it like they have a clear path because the state and the city mandates it they
have to pass inspections they have to do all that but you know what just because we don't have to pass a lot of that doesn't mean that we cannot create a
clear path that doesn't sense at all it doesn't make sense at all so there again I just learned something thank you sir
thanks Paul because uh it instead of pointing the finger and saying this is why we you don't have a structured uh
curriculum and a structured path to to success or or to a label instead of instead of doing that
it's why don't we you know what because we haven't written it yet that's why yeah nobody else's
fault well it's time we come together as an industry and both
create um and work together to more clearly Define how a new person that
they have something to work forward that they they know that in three to four years that they can have what you were
talking about Daniel they can have what you have so to speak from a you know the skills and abilities uh side of things
and work towards a a a meaningful rewarding career in flooring that I I
sometimes hear people say that with zero conviction I'm telling you it can be a rewarding fulfilling career to be a
floring in installer that doesn't mean you have to do it for 60 years it just means that that you can do
it for the time that you want to do it as long as you're trained properly
you're working with good people and that the industry overall values you as an
individual very well put Roland any last words sir we ran
over here about 15 minutes I'm going to close her down appreciate you coming on board and sharing your experience and
your your your uh you know your years of of doing this and and it's it's
enlightening it's always a pleasure to listen to guys who have been there done that well you know I guess in closing
what I would say is that you know to build yourself a good team takes dedication on on all sides the the
retailer the sales people the installer uh it takes dedication to make
a good team um you know and and as far as the
you know making this a path of success uh there again um it's something that
you you're going to want to do as an individual uh block out all the negativity and that and and uh you know
go ahead and learn to trade I wasn't here to know exactly how you're going to get the people to understand the path
that you're you're doing with a jump start but we'll talk more on that yeah I I I uh invite those
conversations and I want to you know listen to people who've uh been through
the struggle um both in residential and commercial but retail you know there's a
huge need um to to help the the the new
people to me it's a travesty of see CFI and fcca and wfca and all these acronyms
uh are working so hard to bring new people in but there's no systematic way to get them to the next step and I'm all
ears on uh input on how that can happen we've built a piece of technology that can be
molded and and used but we're not you know we're not like uh you know who's
the guy on Facebook floor God you know yeah Mario asked you text me hey
Mario you know so at the end of the day um I want to I just want to improve our
industry overall and I think together with some teamwork and jumping on this podcast the the dedication that Jose and
Daniel have and you're on here often to Roland and and just the dedication you
guys have for the industry is admirable I appreciate it I know that industry appreciat give yourself credit I
wouldn't be here right now talking on this podcast if it wasn't for you sir so give yourself a little bit of credit
well thank you well guys with that I'm going to close her out appreciate you rolling
guys as always thank you so much for coming on and uh being such a anchor for
this thing and uh the movement appreciate the uh input and it's always
enlightening so until next week in fact I'll be talking you guys a little bit
later but until next week we will see the audience and if you enjoy some of the content please give us a like And
subscribe I'm Not Too Proud to Beg uh it gets more uh people uh exposed to some
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counts all right guys we'll see you guys next week see all right see you all right see you
[Music] Roland