This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose and John discuss whether or not they would want their kids to be a part of the flooring industry, and what changes have impacted their opinions.

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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

here we are what's up everybody what's up everybody and welcome to this week's huddle we come at you every Tuesday

afternoon at three o'clock to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career

um really we we touch on a lot of subjects that are uh uh flooring related

but also just general business related topics as well join me as always is Daniel and I

believe Jose is going to be joining us here in a bit and um this week's topic uh Falls in line with

all of our discussions um in regards to

bringing new people in and um you know trying to get new people

started in the flooring industry and so this week's topic is would you want your kid in the flooring industry

so would you know basically we all uh

we all have been in it a while maybe and now you're you got children and would

you want them in this industry so the reason I asked this question is and

above and beyond just the fact that it it plays very well with

uh previous discussions um but I've I've noticed a lot of smaller

flooring business owners who whose children don't want anything to do with it so maybe the question should be

would you want your flooring your kid in flooring industry and do they want to be

but um for the topic of this week would you want your kid in the your child to uh

get in the business so I guess that's a it's a question so I'd

love participation from the audience anybody who's on uh that can either tell

a story about their child uh being in flooring um uh or answer the question and maybe

follow that up with why and and what you think

um the negatives are that would want you as a parent to do not possibly want your

child in fluorine kind of stems from a lot of football players professional football players won't let their own

children play football and so that thought came to me I wonder what what a flooring a lifetime flooring guy would

say about having their their child in the flooring business uh this is probably more geared towards

installing although the business in general but would you want your kid to be a flooring installer so

that is the question on the table I will I would love to hear Daniel first

um get your your uh input okay

I don't know if Ashland's there but my brother's hey Ashley can we get Jose on please

um I tried to promote him to a panelist it declined or he declined the promotion and then left Nicole okay okay

well Daniel for now it's you and me hopefully uh Jose joins and Ashland can

um patch him in so um let's start off with you I also am up in

my Kansas City office today and uh I have uh my manager up here my project

executive at this location uh who may join us um might jump in the frame here and I

got John over here too I think it might be beneficial for him to come in here because his kid is actually in the

industry as well um well let's bring him in and let's let's have you guys start the conversation off with one of you

answering the question and and following up with the why okay I'll start off I I always tell

everyone that uh with the way the industry is right now I would not have

my kids join the industry um especially

not not necessarily like on the sales side or anything but on the installation side because of

it's a it's an uphill battle with the installation side right now you know fighting stores trying to get paid what

I wanna you would want to say what we think we're Worth right but it's really what we are worth

um a lot of the conversations that we have have to deal with you know not

we we need to stop saying I can't afford to do this and start saying that I can't afford not to

and that's where a lot of the the stores that you work for put you they put you

in that place where you're like I can't afford to do this and I can't afford to do that and they essentially bully you

into a spot to where you know you're scared to say no to work because they're going to stop feeding you and then once

they stop feeding you you think that you're gonna end up going under right away and there there's nowhere else for

you to go I mean I felt like that for for a while you know you're dealing with huge

companies and every single day pretty much they have something for you and then you know if I

end up saying no what's gonna happen well we started saying no and just like we

thought you know they essentially cut us off so

um it was hard and you know the industry is is still hard like that and I don't want

my kids to be put in that same position that I was in especially right now with

I mean we've talked about my body I'm 35 years old and just on Saturday my hip

went out and it was my good hip so now I have zero good hips

yeah so it's tough on the body we know that although things have gotten a lot better

uh I think uh from a uh you know you

know personal uh cut I want to say safety for lack of a

better word like knee pads and things like that so your personal protection items that are available to you and

fluorine are a lot better today than the The Old Rugged knee pads we used to use but I

um something that struck me is you talked about a store basically

it sounds like uh exuding controls and power over you as a installer and when

you started to say no or maybe negotiate your pricing

um you started to get blackballed at that particular store is that accurate

yeah yeah basically it's like uh you're they gonna do it for what we tell you

you're that we're paying you or pretty much you can find some somewhere else to

go either do it or pound sand huh yeah foreign

little plug for gold Carrera here right because I've I've used the software and

um you know we got pretty in depth with it when we went in to visit you and that's one of the best aspects of it is the negotiating part and

that's something that a lot of these guys don't realize that they have is the power to negotiate

and especially in numbers right like if you're if you're part of go Carrera and

you're part of um you know a couple thousand other installers and

if you get saturation in certain areas where installers can stand up for themselves and I'm a flooring store I'm

a commercial flooring company and I want the guys to stand up for themselves and

uh get more money from the market uh I've seen an interesting post on

Facebook maybe it was yesterday where a guy was discussed talking about you know

not being paid what he what he wants and what he needs to be paid from a store and then some other people chimed in and

said you know well stores shouldn't make any money off of my labor uh

the to address that stores should companies

should make money on expenses if some If You're expending Something Out in a major way

in a and you're the one as a company waiting for that money to come through now if installers from the now this is a

commercial situation from a commercial flooring company if the installers wanted to wait

the 60 to 90 days to get paid like I have to then okay then you you probably

can make a heck of a lot more if you want to make those terms with a flooring company but the fact that we pay out every

single week and we wait for the money to come through on that labor performed

from the contractor and often it's 60 to 90 days that is we are financing that and you

have to make a profit on anything that you're you're expending or financing

that being said the real problem is installers get on Facebook and and I'm sorry but

that's what it is they don't do anything about it there's there there's probably more plug-in go career than I've done on

this on the podcast but fact is if they get on go Carrera in in a meaningful way

from in in given areas you know Geographic areas if if you if you're on

the go career Network negotiate your pricing between no matter what company you work for you you make sure you're

getting the you're requesting you're negotiating that price up that changes

the market the installer has the power to change the market if they gather together and

do it if you're negotiating what are the numbers and your your your prices

say you're getting paid four dollars a yard for carpet and you want to get paid five these are

just for example if you will if you go to both come to

every company that you work for and you demand five eventually the price and

other installers do the same thing eventually that price is you may have to eat a little dirt and get to 450 and

then five but eventually that will move up the installers have to band together

for that to happen and you have to have a platform that can band you together and that is go career so that's my

that's my pitch and get together band together and have a common a common goal

of increasing the labor because here's the dirty Secret flooring companies make more money we do

it on a percentage basis so if I make 10 percent on everything I expend for

example and my labor cost is four dollars I make more money if I if my

labor cost is five six seven dollars if I'm making ten percent on it so if the

mark labor market and this also goes to go Carrera with the hammer rating making sure that a

six-month guy that's going to go in and and undercut everybody you know that guy that was was with a

mechanic for six months and then went out and started his own thing he's not going to have a hammer rating worth a

darn and he should he's not going to get much work in the go career system unless he goes and increases his experience and

his education as he does that his hammer rating will increase

then he's in the go career system you're only competing with the same level of

hammer rated person no matter what so the the installer does have the power to

make some change if they will band together and and make and create positive change you know I I'll announce

it here we're going to have a convention for go Carrera installers where we can talk about these Concepts and where we

can Implement them out in the marketplace that will I'm going to try like hell to

make uh our first convention uh be 2023 now I don't know if I'm gonna be able to

pull that off but that's going to be my goal then we can band together as an industry at the level where it matters

the most I don't care how good of a Salesman I am if I can't get the stuff installed in a

good in the proper manner and please the client it doesn't matter

I have to get it installed there's no value to the flooring until it's on the floor

installed correctly so it doesn't the the the change has to

happen at the installer level and with so many installers being subcontractors

similar to your your article Daniel where you talked about in companies

hiring and 1099 employees which is a misnomer that doesn't exist there's no

such thing you're either an employee or you're a subcontractor that's it if

you're an employee you are paid on a W-2 you get taxes taken out you are your

expenses as it relates to the the business are covered if you're a 1099 subcontractor

you are responsible for all that stuff and the lack of control from the company is key for that relationship to work a

lot of what I was talking about with you know why I wouldn't want my kids to do it kind of ties back into what you were

just talking about and it's there's too many people out there that aren't doing it that way which make the prices lower

and then they are uneducated so they think that they have to just accept those rates and

there's no way to get out of it which in turn makes them

hire other people on a 1099 basis who don't know what they're doing that go

out risk it and it's just a vicious and it dry it dry it keeps the price down

that's why yeah I got paid 275 to three dollars a yard

to lay carpet back in 95. today the market pays about four dollars

in my area 350 to 4. that is not an increase

man the guys who are willing to work for that now I get it we have some jobs that

are you know huge big open department stores and you know a guy can still make

several thousand dollars in a day but my point is not on a project by project

basis but as an industry from the installer level if you're going to come to me and want

four dollars and then go down the street to my competitor and charge them three dollars then you're breaking the you're

breaking the the system you have to have

Subs need to understand you you have to cover your costs and you have to cover

expenses and if you have somebody working for you as a sub and you got a Helper and you're paying them 10.99

that's not fair either now this guy who's just in the industry is experiencing the industry as a 1099

person for another sub and they're getting paid even less than that sub

gets paid from the store that's where all this gets mixed up subcontractors please if you're gonna

hire people to work for you make them your employee get the appropriate

Insurance get get operate as a business and then charge appropriately so that

you can cover those expenses and then turn still turn a profit at the end of the year so that got off onto a bit of a

rant you guys hear me uh yeah we can't see you anymore but we

can hear you so the question on the table uh yeah I mean the industry's messed up uh in a

lot of ways from a labor perspective and um so you that's that's your

your stance uh can you introduce the gentleman with you Dave this is John Curtis this is all right

project coordinator and his son actually works here as well

so I mean he he has that that other side of it to where he's already brought his kid in he's a few years in now right a

couple years yeah so tell us about that John well

so I was thinking about objectively if I had it the chance to go back and kind of

steer him and uh um something else I'm I might do that but

for me I think it was a good fit in my situation with my sons because he he had

he didn't have very much Direction he's working at a restaurant and I didn't want I didn't want that life for him I

was trying to get him and geared into the trades he was in a trade school in high school for uh

HVAC for a technician for a technical program for that and he just didn't

really like that and then one summer he came to work with me and and I think it was probably the easy way out for

him he was just kind of well this is easy to work for my dad I

can I can learn everything from him and I don't really have to go put myself out

there and go venture out don't have to go to interviews and stuff you don't have to go to interviews or anything

like that so and don't tell the story that you told me about the gentleman that that kind of

mentioned something negative derogatory to reach towards you that kind of helped push that envelope too because I love

that story that you told me about about that GC oh we're working on a school out at a

school on the Lakeshore and I was just sent there just to uh just install some

vinyl base or something something got missed and it wasn't my job they sent they sent me and my son there to install

vinyl base well it's a huge School we're only there for a day we're waiting for the GC outside and he sees he sees my

son and he's like oh well well shouldn't you be in shouldn't you be in college and he's just like no and he's like well

what do you want to do with with your life you know just go ahead and install vinyl base all for your for your entire

life and you know the yeah I got you got my son pretty upset and I I got

pretty mad at him too a little bit and I'm just like we if everybody goes to college we're

not going to have anybody to build our buildings and to that right there we need we need

people we need guys to put vinyl base on in this world not every weekend sit and

go to college and do that and do that life so it's for my son in my situation

I feel good about it and where he's at um he's learning he's interested in it

he wants to stay with it um could there be more more motivation and more interest yes but he's also a fresh

21 so he's got he's got a lot ahead of him I didn't have the the same motivation I do

now when I was 21 either so yeah I didn't know that would help me my wife is also in

Flores too so I mean we can we can foster his development and I can't answer almost every damn question that

he has so selfishly I like that he's in floors because I can help him and Foster him

yeah I mean you're in a unique scenario you're with a good company and uh you

have the ability to kind of guide the experience of his development and

um you know what Daniel's sore spot is from being out in the in the weeds of it

with multiple different you know companies uh trying to make things work uh I have a similar story

John when I was uh installing uh this came from a school teacher we were doing

a middle school and we were doing a hallway of VCT had some complicated uh patterns in it some

waves and some circles and you know different designs uh in this floor and I

got to go use the bathroom and so we're doing the end of the haul I walked past a classroom at the beginning of the hall

right off the commons area getting ready to go to the bathroom and I hear the teacher tell her students something to

the extent of you know you guys want it you guys keep it up you're gonna end up

like those guys out there talking about me and my crew and

so and half the students were like all right it was like it was like a real kick in the teeth right and

um because actually the pattern took a lot of mathematics to to work out and

make uh land where the the architect showed it on their drawings and so it

took a lot of of the skills and and and Mathematics that you learn in school but

this idea that you got to go to college to be worthwhile is a flawed idea absolutely we do need people to do

flooring and electrical and build our buildings and maintain our facilities and put up our high lines and build our

roads and build our cars and change our oil those are all services now that

doesn't mean they need to make dick I'm sorry for the language in this podcast I've thrown a few uh people

seriously like they they need to make that just because they're doing a service-based work doesn't mean that it

should not pay well um so my my side of this is uh from the kids

perspective is my son was imploring he he started working in the Summers when he was 13 in the warehouse when he was

able to get on job sites we put him with guys to learn um would I have him in flooring

I can say that I would not be disappointed one bit if he went and if

he stayed in flooring now he's went down a different path uh but when he was a

freshman in in college he was able to get a job installing

floors now they subbed to him it was a subcontract Arrangement and he was able

to do some student housing and get paid 300 bucks per unit that he laid the

vinyl in and he'd get one uh he'd definitely get one or two units done a

week and sometimes three so when you're a freshman in college and you can make 900 bucks in a week

I think that's pretty damn good right and we got to do that on a part-time basis right uh Jimmy says you know you

talk about not everyone is meant for college but he he makes a point here he says that he'd love for his sons to be

involved in the business but in his opinion business classes are a must if you're

going to try and do the the you know the independent route

and you know he says that you know CFI training and FCF you know a combination

of those would be really beneficial for for people starting out and then uh Roy

Lewis says nothing beats a trade because you can always provide and that kind of

ties into what you just said like he went to college he already knew what he was doing so he was able to start

working right away yeah because see we made a deal um I would pay for college and

but if he stayed at the dorm then it's it's covered well he wanted to stay with his buddies and

um K-State is where he went and as a freshman you don't you do not have to be

in dorms at K-State and so he from a from freshman from kickoff uh as a

college kid had to pay his own rent had to buy his own gasoline and things

like that and so he had to he had to make money and uh he had a trade that he

had learned enough that he could lay simple flooring in a simple scenario student housing so unit

by unit and um it was flexible which is what he needed

during college and he was able to to for the first year be able to to make a

decent income while he was in college and uh I'm thankful for that I think

that if I had it to do over I do I I don't have any regrets on that on him

learning the flooring trade um right now uh I I had a conversation with

him last week he started a new job at an excavation company and uh he's like he said something to

the extent the conversation went like well if I need to make an extra thousand bucks I can still do it

right so he could still do somebody's kitchen uh or or living room and and some luxury

vinyl tile or something and still make a thousand dollars over a weekend if he

needed some extra cash so from that perspective I love flooring I love the

fact that if you if you had to you can still go out get dirty and and

make a living uh put food on the table so um I do like that part Daniel uh

mentioned about uh his perspective on this Jose so what what's your what's

your thoughts so um just like Daniel years ago like I

couldn't imagine my son putting his body through what I put my body through and

um I couldn't imagine doing that um as my son gets a little bit older uh he

he's turning into um a child that's a little bit built a little bit different mentally right like

sports and all that he loves that but I can see where mindset has shifted on my part

um I'm not an advocate I'm not a good advocate for higher education I do believe that a trade is something that

no one can take that away from you no matter what trade it is and over the

past you know a few years I I've come to realize that if my son

wants to to do flooring I'm going to back him up no matter what if he wants to get into the industry I'm going to

back him no matter what whether it's on his knees installing or whether it's uh you know taking over uh something that

maybe you know maybe in the future we built something that he could take over if it's possible and even if he didn't he can still come

and work as he gets older and learn to trade um because it's been I've noticed that

a flooring guy a good flooring guy who's well versed can also do drywall pretty

well can also do electrical pretty well can also do framing can also do plumbing

because not only do we know how to read the schematics and the prints is our work is extremely detailed and because

of those extreme details that we have to follow the other details that go along all these other trades by going by a

book reading off the print um although they have a lot of rules the details and the Hands-On are pretty easy

to follow and I I believe that a flooring installer or flooring um artist

and if you will could conform a little bit and and adjust and pick that up

um and as far as higher education being involved if he did want to go to college I would

definitely push business class for him because no matter what I think business class can

can help if you use the new trades or if he chooses not to go in the trades that would help no matter what he does in life because he'll have a better

business and translate to a lot more yes they can translate to a lot more if you have a better understanding of the

inner workings of how a business operates um do I believe that my son is going to

be motivated and be an entrepreneur yes do I believe that he can work for

himself yes do I know if he's going to I have no idea it's going to be I mean would you

want would you want him to be a flooring installer

if I had to say yes right now my answer would be yes because I'm looking down the road right down the road in 10 15

years when he's when he's uh as he actually be out of high school he's nine years old now he's gonna be ten so

whatever eight years I have a feeling that

Craftsmen no matter what trade are going to be worth their weight in gold here pretty soon because of how many are

falling off yeah we will if I had to prep him for the future I would say the

future is in in the trains because

we're falling off at a really fast rate and it's gonna be hard to find someone to fill that void and if I can give them

a head start on helping or having him help me learn um while I'm teaching him I think he'll

have a decent resume at 18 19 20 years old whether he chooses to go to college

or not um and that's that's my thoughts if I had to make a decision today my answer would

be yes and that's my basis you know I watched a uh video about

buying businesses um and

you know different types of opportunities out there and

there's this lady her name is name her name is Cody Sanchez she's on YouTube

and she does these different business videos successful entrepreneur uh she buys dirty

businesses as she says like trade businesses and she said because there's

been such an assault on that those those that industry as a whole the trade

industry that it it can only go down it's like a stock it can only go down for so long if it's

a good quality stock it's going to end up changing direction and going up and

the same will happen with our trade we sitting on this call have agreed that

we we want to help be a catalyst to that change um you know I think that when pay gets

up there it helps with the body breaking down because you're not working yourself to death to make a living wage

right so I think that helps if we can get the prices up and Jerry Livingston

says but Subs aren't charging a rate they are asking what we pay I I'm taking

you know obviously store here he says they are giving all the control over to

the stores so Subs quit begging know your words just call somebody and

be patient I mean it does take a little bit of time to change it change the pay if you'll work with your stores that the

stores that you work with if you'll work with them in increasing the pay and say

I really even if you take a job and I'm just going to use four bucks because that's what I've been using if you take

a job for four dollars a square foot if you say look I need this up to four

and a quarter by June I mean and stick to it your store will start to do that

especially in the go career system where you have a good Hammer rating you got good Kudos us I have paid more when I

see somebody negotiate the price and they got a great hammer rating and a and good Kudos uh in our system

of course I mean the guy offers a lot less risk because he does the job so

well so with less risk more pay I can still make the same amount of profits I

don't have punch lists I don't have those things that I have to go through so I think he's making a good point that

if Subs are going to con and he's he's he's proven the point that I made earlier that it is in the installer's

hands to make the change we have a platform where you can band together and go Carrera outside that

get to Convention get involved with

um you know the fcef get involved with ntca

get involved whichever field you're in tile or resilient or whatever get involved with CFI it doesn't even matter

just get involved get involved yeah and make meaningful change in your career by

standing up for the value that you're per that you're providing don't get on

Facebook and just about it like actually do something and that's the other thing you just said

it too that go ahead David uh it's you know when people do go on

Facebook and they have questions don't bash them man we all started somewhere help someone out

yeah don't make it so hard on the new guys either when they come into the industry don't don't beat them up like

uh I was I was treated pretty poorly as a as a uh as a hourly first time when I

first got into flooring you know getting the and I'm not talking about hey go get

the tile stretcher type um jokes just I'm talking more like

like uh just being mean and setting you up for

failure it was like 100 blades at you uh well I'll tell you a quick Story the

worst thing that happened to me I get kicked off of a job and I've only been doing the the job for maybe two weeks or

less uh the guys I was working with at the company that they were the mechanics

I was a helper they gave me a broom and said go sweep out that that big room

over there I didn't know no better well it was the sanctuary and it had all

this wood all finished all beautiful everywhere on the ceiling

these beams going across what do I do I go in there and just start pushing this broom start throwing it dust was going

everywhere had no idea about dust control I just two weeks in the business

the GC comes in and just screams at me like I was the biggest POS

on the planet and kicked me off his job site the guys are in the back just

laughing at me they set me up on the whole thing don't do that I'm lucky

I'm still here and uh sitting on a flooring podcast talking about flooring because I almost I almost exited right

then uh many more things that have come across as when you take when you have a trade you can easily obtain this is from

uh Jorge Ortega or or time it says you can make

Ortega's that's that's not a bad one obtain larger sums of money versus

working by the hour for someone those big chunks go a long way as long as you keep your tools and get the job done I

think he's talking about reinvesting back into your yourself you do make that money uh at least that's what I take

from it and and uh he's got a point you you can make a lot more money as a as a

sub but if you're doing it right and you're paying your guys on a W-2 and you

have an accountant and you're paying your taxes and you're taking care of business because you are a business owner

then and you're charging appropriately to cover all that and still turn a profit then yes I agree 100 percent

and then Jerry says again he says if you charge me more I will pass that on to the customer I need I need to charge my

customer money so I can pay the installer what they are worth so yes I I think that's kind of playing off

of what I imagine Facebook post was yeah uh uh stores do make money on your

labor we should make money on your labor and uh to to suggest otherwise is

um not that would be um similar to The GC not making any

money on the flooring uh yeah it's just not smart business like that it's not smart business to

think and I'm sorry to interrupt Paul um but if I were if I were to tell you

that at one point in my career that that didn't come out of my mouth and you know

it wasn't like blanketing it overall right but it was like you know for example it was on a project

um no we we sat down at a meeting after getting or getting a AWA sign for prep

after prep after prep like hey there's so much unforeseen stuff here you know 270 something hours to be to get closer

and then they said oh we're not going to pay him for it and we sat down in a meeting uh

with the owners and the the gentleman the salesman that hired us for it and he flat out stood out stood up for us and

uh and Mr Tim Johnson he's a good guy good friend of mine to this day even

though we don't talk as much as we should but he stood up for us and advocated for us and said this isn't

right you guys why don't we lose on our margins on the sales to replenish what they spent on it

right but they there was more to it than that and this is it has come out after the fact but that right there made me

realize that you know not every job is going to be profitable for the store or the installer but you

can find common ground and meet in the middle right because your values have to have to have to match up and then we we

no longer do work for for that store uh we probably could um but we just choose not to and I'm

still friends with people that work out of there and I'm still I want to say I'm still friends with the owner right we're

just just it doesn't work for us um a couple a month down the road we found out that the company we did the

work for they did the work for and then we were subbed for it actually went bankrupt so

it's not that they didn't want to pay us right it's just instead of going through all the hassle of

explaining everything they knew that they were going to get paid regardless anyway so they just didn't have the funds but if that

conversation was approached in a different way then my mindset would have been different to that whole thing and maybe our relationship would be

different to this day um but you make another good point I mean the fact uh you know when we're

talking about should a store make profit on their Labor uh

certainly if you consider the risk factor of not

being paid in the time frame of paid that again supports the fact that the

stores have to charge appropriately for the labor now if

you're working for a store that's charging 15 and paying you two that's your fault man that's right like so

um that would be a little ridiculous uh I don't know if I'd be able to work for

anybody finding out they did that but what Jerry said too is is the the

increase does get passed on right so what we prided ourselves on when we're

you know coming from the labor only is we were actually able to create repeat customers

um for these stories that we worked on and that's all negotiated work right it wasn't that we had to bid on things and

maybe some of it was in through the bid Market but we helped them create

um the repeat customers so that way they didn't have to fight against anybody else and it was because we were going to

be on the project hey you know what these are the numbers this is preferred it's going to be on the project for you

um you know that you know this is their Niche this is their specialty uh so on and that actually helped us increase our

numbers because we started investing more into tools more into education more into equipment ourselves and the the

crews with what we needed to be more efficient to do larger projects um you know we were building and yeah you guys

were adding value to it yeah you got to charge a little bit more and we didn't

just slap him and say boom here's the increase no it was a trickle it was a you know Daniel said hey dude like if

we're going to keep going this direction we have to start going up so we had you know 10 cents here 25 cents here

depending on on what what it is but that's slowly what we did and

it worked and so many years are understood like have I guess

would you guys agree that if a guy comes in to you he's super high quality he says hey man

we're at four bucks I need you to get to 450 in the next few months here maybe

three six months from now I need to get I need that to be 450. great sub does

shows up on time you know punctual Dependable that kind of a guy you'd work

towards making that happen would you or would you not we would and I'm 100

um you know when we've talked to guys who we were subbing for and we've said that

there was no hesitation from them to offer us a little bit more right away because they were they knew that they

already had a little bit of a cushion because you do you mark up your labor so you get rid of that

you know to to make sure that everyone is staying happy which only

you know builds that that partnership up even stronger because all right I know that

they're losing a little bit on their end to make me happy now which is going to make me you know when they're like hey I

need you to go in a little bit tighter on this one because you know I don't know they messed up or something got

missed it makes it a lot easier to be like done I will do that for you right because of

what you did for me yeah that's just working with your because installers

that are sub subbing from us I'm your client right I give you the work orders I pay

you every single time I'm your client have a conversation with me about how we

can increase prices how can we get better don't if you're just griping

about it in the background or you're you're doing those things I don't see the productivity uh because everybody

agrees like even another flooring company just was on talking about it right like yeah we we understand but it

has to be on a market level because one store in a given Market cannot just

pay out 75 percent more than another store and win bids you you won't ever

win a job so it has to start at the level where the cost is coming from which is the installer I hate to I'm not

you know very not very often am I putting the blame on the installer but I am putting the responsibility on you

guys to as a community to gather together and help yourselves to help the

industry to help the stores will be better if if everybody is on the go career

Network and you're getting work based off Hammer rating and you are and higher Hammer rating equals higher pay that's

been proven then it only makes sense uh to do that but you gotta you gotta

take the steps whether that's with go career or going to Convention and talking to the CFI your CFI group or

going to fcica meetings and teaming up with other companies or other installers

and talking to them I when when Jose and I was at uh fcica there were multiple

installers there not just flooring companies so you know you you have the chance to talk to other installers as

well you know get together make some meaningful change through good

conversation and then go back and implement it go back and implement it go have that talk with your store

go have the talk that hey we're here I'd like to work to hear as you know within

the next six months or something I need to get here or three I'm just throwing you know time frames out there whatever

yeah you you decide your threshold there but just have some conversations with

them uh I think most stores will pay to have really high quality guys it just is

important that that it's it's awarded based on the level of quality and the

level of service that you are giving to that store if you are doing like Jose was just talking and adding value you

should be able to get paid more if you are going to and this is like if you're going to stay just you

and your cousin in a beat up pickup truck and never like it reinvesting back

into your tools and you're always borrowing tools from the company and all that stuff you're you're taking value

you're not adding value and so if that's you make a change like find ways to add

value to the process and not take value away from the process you know and then you can be in the position like Daniel

was just talking about where when the store needs you and you're there for them and then you need the store and

they're there for you that Dynamic only happens when you're working together

I totally understand that gotta have the conversations you don't

know unless you ask right tell John I said thanks for joining us there that was awesome I think he's I think he's

going to poop no no [Laughter]

um what you said to Paul isn't too far off on the tangent that

from what we're we're supposed to be talking about about having your kid but it all tied together because we're

setting a foundation for the future right and if we're setting a foundation that's misleading and it's not going to

be truthful and we're setting a foundation that's going to be watered down for the future of our industry

whether it's our child or not um we do have to make it known that it's

it's about having the right equipment and it's about being able to execute and be consistent and that that's what it is

is if you can consistently perform and let's just say at a higher level you can perform at a higher level with and

creating um a consistency of less risk right like

we had a really strong run with zero to no punchings for a long time do we still

get them yes we do but some of them are categorized as repairs right but they're pungentists

yeah but um but it's about the consistency and that's that's what what really controls

the market it's like if you can match consistency consistency skill set along with I don't want to say

imagery because not everybody is going to follow that beauty your images whatever you create but if you can on a

professional level you are attracting a specific demographic and you're working towards a specific demographic you kind

of have to fit the criteria right and that just all falls into place with it if you're if you're if you're on track

for that then and stay on track of that if your demographic is high-end homes and you're doing custom wood floors

then stay on track for that you're not gonna you're not one image has a lot to

do with how you perform right you don't have to necessarily be the cleanest cut person on the planet

but if you are if you are if you show up when you're supposed to when it's when you're

scheduled uh if you're punctual dependable and quality and like Jerry says

you help the store look good to the customer yes

of course he says I'll pay more for a reliable

installer I think that's across every flooring company every quality flooring

company is that if you make us if a sub makes us look good we are more apt to

take care and pay that guy more as we're able to but as far as changing that's on

a sub by sub level and that kind of happens now what I'm talking about is changing the entire industry to up the

water level of pay um and I think that takes um that takes people Banning together

installers banding together and making some meaningful change uh by by

communicating with the story that you need more right investing in your tools

by investing in yourself all the stuff we talk about all the time on the Huddle is investing back in yourself in

education and invest back into yourself in your tools and your equipment or in

Coalition that's what we need to start with flooring Coalition and then floor Trends has a a podcast that was released

last week I think I listened to it this morning um it's about building market share and

he's straight upset in there he said that installers are gonna be the ones that are

dominating everything pretty soon because we we have the powers in our hands right without us things don't get

done and it just it's about that time like you said you know you can only go down for so long until you start coming

back up and it's about that time for us to start coming back up and building um a stronger Workforce because you look

at things from back in the day and you know people were proud to be a flooring installer this is what I do yeah and now

you know it it's it's not the norm anymore like when we when we were first starting they were like we'd show up to

the job site and they'd be like oh you guys are the four guys usually they don't show up till like noon

we had to think for a while when we were the first ones there and the last ones leave um yeah nobody in our air has ever seen

that and that that to me was one of the um one of the takeaways from working uh as

a an employee for uh the company where I met Johnny who was just in the background

um was they were they were a company they would show up

in the morning they would mobilize get to work go put in eight hours on the job site and then then go home and it was

that was hard to find in the flooring industry because there is no Temple area there is no as a subcontractor you you as a 1099

subcontractor you don't have any lost so to speak so you were kind of

on your own hey stayed out late last night I guess I'm going in late tomorrow yeah well I mean those are the metrics

that are tracked though right those are the things that that's that people uh

recognize in a really high quality sub is uh dependability punctuality those

types of things because as a flooring company you can't legally you cannot tell a subcontractor

you start at eight and your day's over at five right that's not you can say the

job site hours are seven to three and we have this much work to get done here's

your work order you accept it you know the schedule you got to get it done on time and then

as as long as they're working within those hours and get the job done then uh

you gotta accept the the hours of of work if you will if the if the 1099 Subs will

just change their perspective a bit and start showing up better than or at least as good as

hourly installers uh you know be as punctual or and more

dependable and add more value you're going the the whole industry will change

like it is on the backs of installers uh it had a q a thing here that says you

know that installers make or break a company um I believe that uh that is 100 correct

like the installers can cause you as a store can cause you an immense pain or immense

pleasure and either way um you know the store hat you have to

deal with those things as they come but what's important is how you work together if you don't if the store is

not taking care of you um from a perspective of pay or or

setting up the jobs as good as they can and we all struggle with that a bit I'm

not saying we're perfect by any means but I am saying that go work for another store

go go go work for another store if you're unhappy at the store you're at right you guys have the you have the

control of your life and um again you know not that you shouldn't

get on uh social media and have discussions and I'm not even discouraging that whatsoever I think

it's awesome but I'm just taking some of the complaints out of that and you can

see that they're just complaining as opposed to proposing meaningful

Solutions and so um and there's a lot of solutions out

there you just gotta explore them so and have I have that conversation like uh Rollin says right here you got to have

that conversation right because then Rylan will tell you he says uh give me a

reason to pay you more it's about as clean as you can say it

right add value by being punctual dependable and having been well equipped

and you you have ninety percent of it knocked out of the park right there you know and now if you can install the

floor and do it in a great manner you you roll the roost I mean I know Subs

that roll the roost because they are Dependable punctual

well-equipped can if they if they're going to grind the floor and they don't have the right grinder with them they

got another one gr they that they they grab and and that one work I mean like

they're well equipped well trained and um

care a lot about being punctual and dependable uh those are just very

um important metrics for for Subs to you know keep track of themselves on

um we're running out of time here aren't we yep we're running out of time and so

it's always when we get on a good subject like I just want to say that this kind

of uh ties into why we started working so hard for the

industry and trying to change things is because of looking at our kids like what

I want them to do what I do right now and that's what pushes me to try and make them changes because like like he

said you know people don't know what their kids are going to do if one day my son is like this is what I want to do I

want to do the same thing that you do I want him to be in a better place than I was when he at the first day he starts

on the job site so so I you know to me Daniel you're you

said no but I think you're a yes I think you're a yes if the industry if

if the industry some of the changes that we're talking about and that we here can

at the shows all the time we start making those meaningful changes as an industry

um I think that uh you know you get a better situation A diff a better

scenario for your child uh because we love our kids we want them to have a better uh experience or existence and

what we have that's what every parent wants um but when that happened but what that

requires is everybody on this call everybody that's listening and and and

those of us who have contributed band together let's make some change by

doing things a little bit differently that does require a little bit of pain but let's do things a little bit

differently have those conversations let's get to pay where it should be and

let's value the installation uh Professionals in our industry I'm going

to leave this call with a quick uh story mark from the ntca

started a talk one time it was at surfaces and he I believe it was at surfaces and he was talking about how

back in the 30s and 40s like when a flooring guy walked in and he had some

pictures like they were in these dresses yeah I remember that a nice shirt and

they had a little tie on and now this was way back in the day but when the flooring guys showed up they were like

get out of the way the the Craftsmen are here today I was I was there for that I

was there were you there okay I was I was blown away with some of the pictures and stuff we can work back towards that we just

have to build back the responsibility I guarantee you those guys in that picture didn't show up at 10 o'clock and leave

it too so if you want that respect start acting like it and earning it

and uh I want to tell you guys I really appreciate you uh joining me and uh

having this discussion because you know with kids we we uh you know you you want

to have a better like I said a better experience for him but it it can happen in this industry as well so I hope we

can all make some meaningful change that that improves the industry and um you know addresses a lot of the

concerns out there so once again guys that's it four o'clock we made it a full hour uh with zero effort that was very

uh very fluid conversation I appreciate you guys and tell John it was nice to meet him and you guys have a good

afternoon and we'll catch you guys next Tuesday we'll see you soon have a good one all right thanks guys thanks guys