The Huddle - Episode 110 - Addressing Labor Shortages in the Flooring Industry

In this episode with special guest John Steier (Floorinator) we delve into the ongoing challenges of labor shortages and the innovative solutions being implemented to address them. This episode highlights both current efforts and necessary strategies to attract and retain skilled workers, including increased training opportunities, enhanced benefits, and outreach to younger demographics. We discuss how the industry can improve its appeal to potential employees and the importance of investing in workforce development. Tune in to learn about the proactive steps the flooring industry is taking to secure a sustainable and skilled labor force.

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up sorry a little technical difficulty what's up team welcome to the Huddle we're your weekly Playbook where

we not only strategize on playing the game but how to change it from mastering

the fundamentals to distinguishing yourself in the marketplace we're here for the installer to give you a voice

and make sure you're equipped with everything you need let's band together and Forge a new Legacy in flooring this

is where you belong welcome to the team what's up fellas how's it

going um it is going excellent uh for

the audience out there I'm Paul Stewart I'm the founder and CEO of go Carrera

and the president at Stewart and Associates commercial flooring with me as always Mr Daniel and

Jose Gonzalez that preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan what's going on guys so today we are

addressing labor shortage uh we we could do a topic on this every week probably

every single week it's always seems to be the topic but uh we

are I think we tackle this um oh two or three times a year we

tackle this um and get get ideas flowing and and discuss um not only

you know what are the problems but you know what are some solutions so I'm going to kick it off

with a couple of things um go Carrera has uh created a product

called the jumpstart and it's a job board uh what jump starts intended to do

is have an is be an outlet a conduit for all of the training entities be it CFI

aft ntca fcef all of these uh to give them a

way to board their students onto our uh

site and then provide access to that site and interviews and all this

interactive kind of thing so that when new people come in that the new people are out in front

of the people who are going to hire them so we know that most of our industry uh

the installation is is done by subcontractors or subcontract third

party independent whatever you want to call them that demographic is a

independent contractor right they're they're not employees that means that we need to give them access to hire these

people uh these new students the new blood in the industry um so I say all that GL to say

that I believe one of the greatest failures in our industry right now is

placement there's a lot of activity going on the recruitment front but then when they get out of the twoe course or

the five-week course or the 10we course or whatever uh or um you know uh out of

a some type of a entry-level course they're not getting placed um their companies are still um

looking at Craigslist or running ads on Craigslist or things like this to find

guys I hear installers all the time talk about Craigslist well Craigslist is dead

when it comes to this at the end of the day it provide you with nothing about the person or provide you no background

and that's what jumpstart is um designed to do give you some

background on the student and um allow you to hire them schedule

interviews and everything right off at the site so that is a solution that we've been talking about for a while and

it to me it is the the it's filling the this huge gap in placement so that was a

really long-winded way of asking you guys when when somebody where do you guys look for

new Talent first off and and

secondly what do you think from a placement standpoint would be important uh and what other holes do

you see because recruitment's out there as well I mean there is some efforts going on in recruitment but it's

probably not near enough to what the industry needs um so I'll go ahead and start

the as far as looking for new Talent uh you you kind of have U we got a small

circle right so we we look within the circle um you know if if we're going back to when um you know prior to us

meeting you Paul there really wasn't any other avenues for us to go besides looking on a Craigslist or at some temp

services that could potentially have a construction um Department in there but

um Word of Mouth friends of family uh you know kids of so and so kids of that

that's where the bucket we've been pulling from um has been uh is one of

those things I think it's a comfort thing right like we trust what people are telling us and we have to trust that

they're referring good people to us um that want to grow and and so referrals

friends and family and referrals and Craigs List yeah it has it worked out

yes and no yes it's work out some of them longer than others some of them shorter than others um however I do tell

I do tell friends and family that if they want to remain in the same or they want to keep the relationship as it is

now then they shouldn't come at work because that's great great

advice that's one of those things where we can separate work and friendship work

in family but sometimes they cannot but we've had a lot more practice

yeah you better you better get good at it pretty quick huh uh we we've hired

family I've not had much luck uh

friends uh a little better but not great I have found that once you hire a friend

you're probably your relationship will change um so wouldn't it wouldn't it be

great though to have the a a spot where you can and just

look for guys that have said hey I am I'm I want to be in flooring I've taken

the first level a training that you can at least tell them to grab you know a stair tool or hey grab that kicker or

mix that grout mix that thin set and understand that you know if it's a

Portland grout you got to let it slake for you know five or 10 minutes and then remix it or grab my margin trial or you

know can understand the basics um because I I just have this

intense belief that we are doing really poor in our industry of placing these

new new students and and that kind of comes from reading on Facebook a lot of

the trainers like they're and if you talk to some of them um placement they

they get students in and they graduate them but they then they don't have the resources to get them placed or the

resources to follow up with them it's like right even when we had Carlos on

here that was one of his big talking points was we can we can turn these guys out right we can get them signing up and

they like doing it and then once they're done it's like where am I supposed to go it's

there's it's it's an issue where where you guys are trying to to have somewhere

for them to actually all right this is where we're going to put them you can go here and view everything but then the

other issue we run into is the whole subcontractor mentality where a lot of

these guys are like I'm only going to run as a subcontractor I'm not going to run it as a business and that's really

not what these programs are set up for they're not set up

to here go work for this guy over here on a a

1099 yeah unfortunately well let's talk about that I mean what

what what's the solution there um I there there's two problems and then what

is the solution or at least this my my two cents on on what the problems are

opinion on the solution is maybe when people are signing up for classes maybe there should be classes specific for uh

individuals who are chasing the entrepreneur dream and want to work for themselves versus someone who wants to

work hourly maybe they should be geared towards a towards a different demographic or that specific demographic

I would say um you know are are you wanting to go out on your own right

away if so these are the pitfalls or are you wanting to take some classes and get

some education so that way you can find placement within a company's easier um

and then then obviously the logistic portion of it is um relocation issues um

you know are are you wanting to stay in your radius your area or are you willing

to move elsewhere and are you set up for that yeah so I think educating

them um educating them on the you know during

the training that there's you know two

two ways to go about this being an employee with somebody and being a a

subcontractor but out of these programs I mean I don't want them to

be maybe this is a selfish I don't think they should be nor do I want these new people going out trying to start their

own thing to me that's just as irresponsible as some guy who came to work for me worked for me for six months

and goes out and starts his own install company I had a few of my helpers do that and they failed miserably and it

doesn't do any good for the industry they'd learn no new skill because they didn't stay with somebody long enough to

learn the skills um you know we've got to get them into some type of employment

for some type of time so if you if you're a company that hires by the hour

um or by the day or whatever but you have employee installers jump starts designed to give

those companies a chance to hire and by the as employees

the um subcontract Community we initially

had a threshold where you had to be one hammer or more

uh to be honest at the beginning we had it at two hammers or more but you know

with only about 12% of the entire network being even close to two hammers

we were like well that kind of uh cuts it off right you

you lower the amount of people that can hire so we're opening it up to where any

anybody can hire the guys now I'll be honest in the future we want to minim you know put that filter requirement

back on it um but at the end of the day

you've got to get the guys placed somewhere and have some someone training

them like them coming out of training and not getting at all with a sub or a company that's certainly not helping um

I think we got to just improve put those funds into training someone and then have them leave the

industry right away and Rollin says like one of the things that we have to be working on is to get more dealers to buy

into the programs but um coming from that standpoint

it's would it be beneficial for the dealers yes but they can't see that because the only thing that I think they

see is and we've dealt with this locally is putting bodies on the floor I don't

care they don't care about the education it's just how many people can we put on the floor well that leads to another

piece really one of the biggest problem it's like we have to get hit with a sledgehammer in our industry for things

to happen I'm serious you are here's the the point is a lot of

people are not hiring these younger guys because they they feel like they're okay

they got their 58 year old out there working in another five years this will

be like there'll be no qu no opportunity

other than hiring younger New Blood hey Paul can I

hey John is hey everybody he's back hooray John has joined our call we love

to add to what you're saying there because it it is exactly that everybody

is so complacent right now and I'm going to talk through my experience with people going through training and then

putting them into placement we all love to talk about the wonderful idea of training all these people but when it

comes to uh retailers and and work rooms and all these places stepping up we need

to do a better job getting them involved in the training from day one and not

just saying here you go here's some guys to pick from well there's two things I

think that there's there's got to be some buy into to the to training in general the the and then there has to be

a mechanism that allows them to easily View and

peruse people that have joined the industry and hire make offers like get

some activity with these students even if a student comes out and gets two or three job offers and he goes away that's

still a better experience than coming out and not talking to anybody um like you got to get this

connection from training to placement and that's where jumpstart comes in and

we are doubling down as as a note to the industry we are doubling and tripling down on jumpstart we are going to make

it awesome we are pointing nearly every resource we have at go Carrera at this

this piece of the problem is placement to have a very Dynamic way of uh of a

company or an installer to get on put in your ZIP code what discipline

you do that you're looking for like I'm a carpet and resilient guy or whatever or I'm a tile guy and then view

students then you get on and you can view the students within that zip code

that area and um you know make offers like set up interviews with them right

then look at their background what what what training did they go to where are they from and then jump on an interview

with them it's a hell of a lot better than what we're doing right now and that can only improve now I also believe that

the complacency and the so meaning that

people not hiring the guys I'm I'm fearful that I throw all my

resources at this and there's still not going to get hired to be honest with you and that's that complacency Point piece

that you were talking about I mean that's a real risk I'm taking you know I mean we've been contacted you know a few

times and it's like hey this person is really interested in installing this is what they want to install can you guys

you know bring them over there it's uh they just graduated they went through

this program they don't have any money right now and then you'd have to pay for them to get there you'd have to pay for

them for a place to to live you'd have to cart them around everywhere and it's like it's just the the way that our

industry is it we're we're not set up like that to be able to just well a lot

of people coming in let's face it when a lot of people are coming in and they're well into their 20s or 30s and they're

going through this training they're there because they really do need that helping hand they need that that

Financial stability in their life and there's very few people that are really

set up few businesses that are going to be set up to handle that because you're not talking tens of thousands of dollars

you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on each individual to

really get somebody to go and that I see this as a big hiccup down the road you

know we can pump out all these people but if we're pumping out all these people and it's still requiring such a

huge investment on the other end how do we make that more appealing to be like okay I'm willing to drop you know or

spend this amount of money well this is this is where part of the problem is

geography right where's most of the trainings happening right where's most of the we all know like if you're in

there's the these train the trainings are siloed around part of that's because the trainers the CFI aft

ntca they go by where they get demand

for example the ntca they have a crap ton of training on the East Coast

Philly like crap tons they come to Kansas once every I mean I don't know

they can correct me on here if I'm wrong but once every six months once every year maybe they're here have you guys

world you know what I mean so if we if we had a way to understand

where the demand is where the people will hire them and that could be a

mechanism of jump too is like put in your ZIP code where you want people and if enough of those requests come in then

you could appeal to a training entity hey man you need to do a carpet training

in you know Grand Rapids there's been 15 inquiries for new installers in that

area area uh or hey ntca and ctef you need to do a course a two your twoe

training course and or maybe it's onewe training course and your ctii

certification in Grand Rapids because a lot of inquiries been coming in that area we just need to tie all the pieces

together somehow um I mean that's what I'm that's this whole launch of working

with jumpstart and you know to be to go through that um a lot of well look

what Kendall says a lot of it right now when it comes to hiring these young

people these days are they want to go to the top dollar knowing nothing and still being and still need to be trained and a

lot of times unfortunately they're not always reliable to show up for work that

is 100% true it gets better though if they did go through a training that that

is somewhat of a fact I want to add to that can you guys hear me okay a little bit

better on the mic now I think you should start you're a little echoey but you're

good all right essentially just super quick it's like the companies are worried about the

the the now the the today we've got to get our industry

looking at this problem everybody talks about it but they got to look out a little bit go ahead Jose sorry about

that so I was going to add to what Kendall said and a lot of a lot of the dollar amounts that are driving the the

people who are whether their entry level or got a little bit of experience is cost of living right so cost of living

has dictated that people don't necessarily want more money for n less

knowledge it's just that they need more money for Less knowledge right and and that's and the the fact that that's

still an issue in our industry um also exposes the fact that we are not in

charge of our pricing as much as we think right the market is dictating that

by flooding it with um I don't want I'm not trying to speak badly about anything but we're training

a lot of people with no placement so a lot of these people with no placement are trying to you know dip and dive and

Dabble and they are actually creating an issue where our our industry is valued

less because of the failure rate is higher because people are just diving in Without Really knowing and that goes

back to the issue that we're talking about is all these training entities and all these programs for all these new

people for entry level are are are we are we going about this wrong are we treating this like a combine and only

the ones that are performing at Peak Performance or learn at a higher capacity those are the ones who are

getting uh verbally drafted to all these other companies and getting these recommendations the other guys are out

there defend for themselves and that's what's causing the market to uh to do what is doing I don't think anybody's

getting I you know it doesn't seem to me that anybody's getting like truly

promoted or placed the the best way that I've seen it happen is when a company

needs training and they pull all their guys in and they hire one of the training entities to come train all

their their entire company or something like that but that that's that's the

most successful way because those people are already placed where the training

land yeah that's where the training lands the best so if you have a new two week guy you

know you they come out of that training better than what they did than what they

were beforehand Jose Jose you said it right so somebody that for whatever

reason they they find out about training for Floor Covering they put themselves through the training they take the time

to do it more than like cannot go to work for for less than

they're going to make at a a a gas station because they're they're looking for something better in their life so

they probably already have the the car payment maybe some kids maybe a house they've got all that they're they're not

going to be able to start off at such a low level and we're they're just going to fizzle out where maybe that that

vetting process needs to happen before you even come into that training or you know are you able to stay are are you

able to stay here you know we'll show you the pathway to get to where you need to but you're not going to be able to

you know realistically you're not going to be making that living wage right away

and I think that's one of the issues that I've always had with like the FCF

right it's because in all their like marketing documentation it's always you

can make x amount per year you can make $150,000 a year your first year and Be

Your Own Boss and they mark it like it's out of the gate you're going to be

making this much money and In fairness I would say they don't actually say in the

first year I don't think but they they they certainly throw those big numbers

around in your first assumption you know these what I'm yeah they're making and

and then when they go through these trainings and then you talk to them and you're like yeah I can offer you this x amount per hour and they're like where

where's this money coming from they're talking about I'm making $100,000 a year yeah that's where like there's no stair

stepping uh I think I've told you guys I know I've told Daniel and Jose about the

vision for jump start in a big way is meaning a placement but also more like a

digital apprenticeship where whoever hires them this would be my dream but

getting the industry to move behind a vision is like very tough

but my dream would be that they go onto the job board whoever hires them has to

be say one and a half hammers or hire on in the go career Network and if you do

if you check that box you can hire off the off of jump start but you can also

then fill out some easy forms and get the first five to eight weeks of that

person's pay covered by an industry Grant and therefore you're taking a risk

on someone new you have to do payroll reporting right through the right through the app which we got this

designed already which just getting the money to push that initiative through

has to have industry support but essentially anybody can be a go- career

member it's free and so then all you got to do is get your Hammer rating once you get your Hammer rating if you're a

hammer and a half or higher you get to use the job board all you want so you have the cream of the crop and then once

you've done that you can even apply to get this guy's uh uh first eight weeks

of wages covered and you just have to do a payroll report and a skill report

every single uh week that would be worth it right who would not do that what's

your thoughts on that idea John that's a that's the big idea of jump I'm gonna be the dream killer here man you lost me

that's just a lot of work but but I love okay let let let let

me find out make sure that I didn't just word salad you to death and

then you you is John yes you're a highly

Hammer rated guy you join jump you join go Carrera you got a you're over two

hammers you go to jumpstart go Carrera D jumpstart you put in your ZIP code you

find a guy you hire him you then just click a button that

says apply for wage supplementation that goes to the grant people and yes this is

complicated it's a complicated problem but that goes to the industry if the industry has put together put aside some

money to cover for a digital apprenticeship it's no different than what an apprenticeship H it's the same

way an apprenticeship happens just digitally so you've got you went and hired Daniel and you're

paying Daniel $18 an hour or $15 an hour

and you want to get his wages covered for the next eight weeks so you're not

worried how much production this guy's getting you can truly worry about the next eight weeks being on job training

and you have a two page form on your phone that you fill out about Daniel

Daniel how many hours did he work how much was he paid boom boom boom boom boom what new skills did Daniel learn

this week boom boom boom is that not worth the $680 you're going to pay him

that week if you could get that supplemented and that is a digital apprenticeship I I am all I am all for I

am all for that stuff I I really am um but again you're you're talking about

money that it's either granted or not I mean I heard you say something about the

flooring industry has money set aside to no no no I'm saying they would have to

this is a big Vision this is not something that hypo I'm sorry I thought this already something that was out

there yes no we want we we have the idea framework out at go Carrera like if this

could happen this is a way you could take a new guy place them with someone who needs them whether it's a sub or an

employ or a company and then that sub or company could get

their first eight weeks of wages supplemented so that the new guy could

be truly on the job trained for like another eight weeks intensely so yeah

anyway I it's a big idea it's not the state of does that with um their

apprenticeship with the plumbers the electricians you hire these guys you just have to have it's a wonderful

program I mean I think I heard of someone getting like 25 Grand not not too terribly long ago because I think

it's Philadelphia does the same thing or Ohio and Philadelphia yeah yes they

supplement your guys so that you can actually train them and they get through

that initial eight weeks of time frame where you don't need to worry is Daniel

producing enough on a day-to-day basis to cover the $15 an hour you're painting

all you care about at that point is getting him up to speed so at the eight weeks when your supplementation's over

that he is making you money so getting getting to that that's that's that's where it needs to get right we need to

and we need to get dealers and and retailers and workrooms behind this

because essentially they're the ones that gonna have to fill this out they're going to have to employ these people and

and you know they're going to have to do the leg work for for these individuals throughout that whole process to to make

that work yeah it's G take it would take work and you'd have to have the industry put aside some money to pay for I mean

who's going to pay for it other than the industry that needs it the most I honestly think right now uh you just

need to look into your States but a lot of state with Apprentice programs if you have Apprentice uh and and this would be

a great question for Jim and Kay with fcef but they Apprentice programs if you

follow through with them they do qualif oh there goes John excuse me you

qualify for he must got a phone of

fundings um as far as MoneyWise goes but it's

there yeah there there's a um there's a

um there's certainly systems out there's systems out there or ways of doing

things that are out there just not for our industry and it's going to take some

work it would take some work on the whoever's hiring them side to fill out the documents properly and it takes some

work on uh whoever to set up the apprenticeship stuff but you know that's

a way that you could graduate a guy through the ranks and then once he's done with that you could even have him

on a digital apprenticeship for one year uh if you'll report back and fill out

all this as the student as the installer you fill this you'll get your apprenticeship license kind of thing

then if you have an apprenticeship guy or something like that you would

know who you're hiring these are all just ideas and that's what this podcast conversation just gave me gave me a

really I don't know seems like a good idea in my head right but um since I share too much information freely and

give people a lot of great ideas I'll wait until we're off air to discuss this one sweet but um the um I I I guess uh

so Kendall put on there too and I wanted to touch base on that is how is this supposed to work with flooring subcontractors though um and I guess

that that's one of those uh one of those questions where that's the whole point

well I think you have to look at it at a at a different perspective right because even when we were 100% a flooring

subcontractor we still hired employees and paid them as employees it wasn't just I'm just going to give you this

percentage or or as you should 1099 you it was all right you're going to be working for me you're going to be

working for me and that's where we need to get in order to things move forward

so so there you go that's where I was going with that is now we're getting into the scenario where there's just a a

disconnect from owning a job versus owning a business right that's right these Subs there's a disconnect and

these Subs hire our employees like you guys did right and and I think that

that's uh and I know we talked about this uh through in some of the conventions and through our travels and

our meetings and I know that um Paul we talked about John you and I probably talked about this when we were um in The

Mastermind group uh with with Kyle is about um the the lack of education on

how to run a business on the front end and what what that requires right because a lot of people who jump into

the trade because the flooring industry isn't regulated like everybody else you can get a knife a tape measure in a van

and be like I'm an installer let's go PE let's go make some dollars right um but

the business aspect people are just don't understand they don't understand

the benefit that it could present to them they only see the dollars and cents that it cost them in the initial setup

and we were we were those people as well we were afraid right of taking a step

afraid of learning afraid of being told you but you did but you did and there's

a lot of people who don't and those people need to be working for you they

do not need to be subcontractors look I'm gonna all [ __ ] aside the worst

problems I have at my flooring company is when a subcontractor Subs my damn job to another sub and I don't know about it

it is absolutely unallowed here but I find out

they did it it's too too late there's punchless there's problems well no crap I paid you $1.75 for this huge uh uh

Early Learning Center uh on lvt and you paid somebody 65 cents what the did you

expect and then my job looks like [ __ ] it's the sub to a sub to a sub [ __ ] that

has got to quit I probably curse more in that one all other episodes

Subs need to hire the hourly hire your installers by the hour

or by the day rate something Fair that's going to pay them and that you make them

better we're never going to get better if you just hire the lowest cost guy

um and try to sub that work to him our industry is plagued with this crap and

it's worse in some areas I believe I I believe unethical is the

way to put it it's unethical I hired you to do a job based off of your we use go

Carrera solely off your go carrera's off your Hammer rating and then you sub it

to another guy unethical for sure there there's

definitely other other ways to do it right it's sometimes it's hey I can't handle this job by myself can you come

help me out it's never just hey he's paying me this will you do it for this

all right let's go yeah if you want to team up if you can partner together

that's a different story you're still on the job you're still the guy I hired I and I

know this is kind of changing the topic but I would love to hear you know more success stories because I think that's

what's going to turn people turn people's view on subcontractor vers employee is I think we need the

saturation of success stories of uh and I'm going to pick on Matt Garcia because

he's got a program he's working with where he um it's based on uh production

and and it's a reward system for his employees it's not just an hourly system and these are things that I think really

need to be heavily talked about they need to be wrote about in magazines they need to be thrown in people's face

because we need to be aware of it otherwise when we hear hourly employee we just we get that negative thought

that we're picking up you know a day labor at Home Depot and and paying him

crap wages when when really what we're meaning is we're we're trying to set a

culture create a culture a business um an environment and where people can everybody can

Thrive Yeah well yeah you got to really worry about like these the the new blood

thriving how do you get you you you know we hired for example we have a guy that

works here that went through a two we course uh it was a two-e CFI course they

had here in witto I sent two or three guys to it one of them completed it and we told them you complete this twoe

course we're hiring you as a and it worked out great if something that way

but I'm the only company in Kansas that H full service there's a tile company up

in St Mary's that hires hourly as well but full service flooring company I'm

the only flooring company in Kansas that hires hourly employees who provides health insurance Vans tools benefits

holiday pay vacation time dental insurance like we're the only ones our industry is

ran by Subs so Subs have to start hiring by the hour we started putting on our

work work orders just as last week that all work performed on this job has to be

by your direct forces because of this subbing to a sub deal we we somehow have

to get away from that if we can get away from that as an industry then and and

like I I don't know if it's how you do it because it's 1099

thing we look at it as our problem but this is a you know

multi-industry multi-state like it's it's a plague in multiple Industries all

skilled labor all skill well and even yes and

so either make it to where 1099s if you are if if the if the government I hate

government like regulation but sometimes it's needed you know if it was where

1099 can only s cannot like if you had 1099a and 1099 B meaning we sub from our

general contractor so we're in first position right so we're going to get a1099 from our general contractor that

they paid us this amount of money on this job on you know this year right

the we 10 one level of 1099 down to 1099

B but there is no 1099 C right these 1099

BS something to track the dilution of of of it so there is no keep on so it can't just keep trickling down that flight of

steps you could could literally do it down yeah Slinky effect right how about

how about you know after after a and b um if there is going to be a c right

let's not call it C let's just call it uh c.1 um in order to have a c.1 you have

to have uh some sort of Licensing that states that you have um a bracket where

you can place people under an employee blanket uh maybe that's something for it I I sat down and talked with some of uh

uh some of the the powers to be right some of the people who make some of the decisions here in Michigan and unfortunately the same answer keeps

coming is that the government doesn't want to invest the money into creating another structured program because it

will take a very long time I get it but also well I'm just saying man someone

else had told me that um since we as an industry aren't held to the same

inspection standards for occupancy for safety I mean some of our stuff is safety I will I will add to that but we

don't have to go through the inspection process like the other trades that uh Rollin had mentioned um therefore we

are an Expendable trade by by that we're not we're not licensed and I think we

talked about that before there there's no license to become a flooring company and it'll NE or a flooring installer and

they'll never be a license California

you have to have Arizona too and I talked to Kyle about it and he said it's just a joke

it's just they just want their money here goes your license that's the that's the bottom line I'm talking a true li

like an actual it's just like Nebraska it's it's a business license it's not a trade license that's all it is just the

the difference is and the reason you don't need inspections is because you we don't have the resulting damage that a

plumber has or a elri electrican you know if you if you wire a house wrong or

a building wrong you can burn the damn thing down uh if you Plum a building

wrong on the seventh floor you could have millions of dollars

of of damage whereas if you put a floor in bad on the seventh floor you're just

replacing a floor on the seventh floor what if you pour self leveler on the seventh floor and it finds a way

down I had that happen thanks for bringing up a terrible m all had thaten had

that well I had it happen at a uh in a u medical facility and it went down into

the ped's ICU so it was really terrible that experience luckily it was a empty

room or else I would have felt as bad as you could feel ours was on the fourth

floor in an electrical room that went down to every electrical room and let's

just say we were able to get everything cleaned up so it can be repainted without substantial

damage yeah well know I I kind of wanted to throw this in here on this conversation

because there's always this is this this this labor shortage 20 years ago when I

started it was the same thing you know and I'm I'm sure Paul you were prior to that and um Daniel and Jose you you

started before that too it was always talked about there's such a there's such a problem with it and and uh I've heard

a lot of you know everybody's got we we there's a million great ideas but it's a lot of it's just getting started doing

and me I live in the middle of nowhere so and I I truly mean that I had to drive to get on some WiFi so I could

jump on this call sell service is that bad but I I think we overthink how to go about even getting

started about this and I think we as installers it's just time for us to step

up and let our voices be heard everywhere that this is a career we chose to do and it's getting in front of

people and and talking about it you know it's not relying on the quote unquote

industry to talk about it at a convention and and make a big speech about it and boy we all feel good about

it but it's actually acting on it and actually doing something about it everybody's situ what what what what is

that to you John you have an audience right now this will be seen by couple of thousand if not more people uh you're

being watched by an audience right now and you'll you'll be seen by at least a couple thousand more so what what what

are some of the let's just talk what are some of the best ideas out there I don't

care what they are who they're from what are some of the best ideas out there to solve the labor shortage yeah so and and

just one more caveat I need to put Daniel and Jose's um

caveat to this qualified labor because they've said it a bunch of times I don't

know that we have a labor shortage we have a Quality Labor shortage

so what are some ideas what so I'm gonna use one I

honestly think what we need to do is is and I know you guys have talked about it

but the high schools we need to be pounding everybody needs to be pounding on their high school door to get these

these young young men and women uh before they go and decide to go be electricians be plumbers be be a

carpenter there's a lot there's a lot of talent in these schools but they have no

clue this is even a career and and for those of us that have been around for you know a year or two we hear this a

lot oh yeah yeah going to the schools going to the schools but you you're not reading about it you're not reading

about um you know state after State you know County after County oh yeah these

these schools are opening up they're bring they're putting a flooring program in I would love I would love to see next

time I log on to Facebook 20 posts 30 posts 40 posts about an installer just

randomly is like hey you know what today I called our high school talk to guidance counselor I'm gonna go in talk

to some kids about Floor Covering so you're you're right reach

reaching out to high schools as a like installers and as um flooring companies

here here's just I'm going to throw one bone in that until we solve the pro or or at

least we have to address the problem we just got through talking about because if Joe Schmo who has been doing flooring

for five years never got any formal training worked for a guy for six months

went out on his own has no idea of what he's doing wrong goes and does this there's two things if you don't have

your business set up that guidance counselor does not want that kid going

to work for you they're looking to put their kids in the best scenario where

they can actually get hired by somebody who's going to treat them well right so

that's a great way to go about it Jim Aaron here says John is a leader in the industry he's volunteering his own time

to visit high schools in his area he is a mo I wish more would follow man big so

I do think you're doing it you doing it John you are put you are putting your money where your mouth is it's not I don't you know we we we over we over

we're overthinking this do I believe The Joe Schmo that doesn't know what he's

doing is gonna be knocking on the door at the high school now he's throwing back a sixpack lighting up another

cigarette and he's on his way that doesn't that that you're talking to a different person there there is the guy watching your the

thousands of people that are gonna be watching this are not joeo I can guarantee it you know you know the the

turds in in the flooring industry are not taking time out of their day to learn more so the thousands of you that

are watching this that do care you don't have to it doesn't have to be perfect

right when you when you want to talk about what you do you know we all think that oh what if I you know I don't seal

my seam or or what if I I bring in the wrong tapping block nobody else knows

nobody else cares you just have to expose them to this and and create that

create that atmosphere in which their the learning can grow if it's gonna grow they have to get excited about they have

to see excited people about it up there yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna point this out i' I've been to a couple uh job fairs I

had gals that were going to be nurses I had guys that were going to school for

um anything other than a trade but they were putting seams together because of the excitement we had at our booth you

know when when kids walk into these when these these trade shows you know and and the guy with this fancy toolbox over

here and he's not talking he's not engaging that ain't going to show any interest in you know it's it's a whole

different way we have to go about this they have to know it's even there how do

we duplicate that so it's it's like very yeah good question right we go to we go

to the the local high schools talk to the guidance counselor right say hey I I

want to come in here and just I I just want to expose the students to a whole

industry that they may not know about in the skilled trades and there's enormous

opportunity there um then the next step is surely they're going to have some

Career Fairs and you try try to get into the career fair and then you set up a

booth and make it Hands-On is that what I heard like kind of something like that

well that's exactly what we we did this year we were fortunate enough to be invited and participate in a career day

at um the local elementary and we didn't know what we were doing we'll be I'll be

honest we did we next time we're bringing candy that's what I know now you know we brought some hands

on for the for the kiddos to uh um to get their hands on right the some LBT interlocking Plank and we had some kids

that loved it we had some kids that only wanted a pencil we we had some kids that asked a lot of questions um you know and

uh they had no idea until that day they had no idea and you know I think um it

was a shot in the dark for us but I think that the the young kids were very responsive and um they

understood there was more understanding that there was more out there than you know obviously fireman policemen all the

people that are normally you know nurses that are normally at these younger School functions but it was it was

refreshing to see how interested they actually were right they're hands on

hands on like at what what age do we have to intercept the kids to where they

lose interest in working with their hands and building with their hands because all children are creative um to

some extent right and they lose interest in that creativity and well that's that's probably the next Point once

you've created the awareness what's the next step now you got some awareness we

got to get them into like we need that's why I want to make sure CFI

doesn't you know just expands training as much as we can do uh any any word I

have with CFI at all is expand the training make it as as

as um what if there was a sponsorship after the awareness John or something

where you get four or five students there has to be some way for the training entities to pay their bills

so you get the the some awareness through through or four students want to go in you get them sponsored somehow

into a CFI five-week course that they come out and they at least know what how

to put a piece of rug on the floor uh probably shouldn't be doing it by themselves at that point but you get

what I'm saying oh yeah that that's that's ideally what you want you know look you

look at um you know this is you were talking about the hypothetical wishful thinking my wishful thinking is Shaw and

Mohawk and and engineered floors and these big Mills they all of a sudden see this and they want they want you know

their they want the the shaw Excellence Academy of floor installation you know

they want they want this out there they want you know some centers throughout the country but until people until you

know guys like us are leaving high school or or or whatever it is and and

wanting to do this right away it's going to be hard to get all those other people

really excited about it uh um to to to throw money I guess at it right and hey

I just want to um add that this to it too is uh uh manufacturers big dogs you

people out there who are listening you know this is us from the installation

side and the the retail side saying that we need to be better as an industry right but however you know we're all

small business owners here or business owners period that are discussing this and we're all Proprietors of uh we were

at one point but it is hard to pass on knowledge and to pass on excitement for

a trade that you know that we know and you manufacture know that someone can make a living on without worrying about

are we going to lose what we built or or how do we subsidize our income while

we're volunteering our time so just putting that out there you guys like John sacrifices a lot of his free time

right now now it's not just free time but it's also time that he could be spending generating revenue for his

business and a lot of people do that everything that we do and and from a volunteer perspective

is just that um and also Brian had put on there unfortunately not all uh people want to hear um or so to your way um SL

you know paren the right way but the nobody ever wants to hear that they're doing it wrong is what it is right like

that's that's that stubbornness of being set in your ways so to speak um but uh

you're right nobody wants to hear they've been doing it wrong for years however I heard it I learned it I

accepted it I moved on I got better because of it so I guess the people who don't want to hear it are the ones that

will need to push out they don't want to continue education the on think down isn't a lot of that driven

because that it seems a little bit biased to the fact that you hire

somebody who has a little bit of experience you know that guy that you

hire that at I've been doing it this way for 10 years or whatever that

guy that that that's not the guy you got to go after you got to go after the young guy and I I do gota state for CFI

I applaud uh Jim Jim brought this up as well but the local chapters are starting

to like gain momentum and Rolland is is

huge in that and just kudos to that whole thing because

the local chapters are where I think some cre some creative excitement can be

made and then those local chapters go out to the high schools that's how I I could see it being

duplicatable is through the local chapters and the guys like you said John

the the Chuck in the truck is not even going to that local chapter he's out trying to get the next Angie's List uh

person to he's just trying to go kick in a couple Apartments today so that way he

can get his case of beer and then do the same thing tomorrow well and that's where working for a beer versus a career

is like that's two separate BS of Life uh oh you just struck a fancy with

John that's the the Jose write that down put that in your

book book of what you call it not beer

jism it's just trying to Cipher the difference between th those two types of individuals is very hard right not only

just you know for us for for the consumer for a retailer whether they're hiring hourly or subcontractors it's

hard to find that divide you you have to learn the hard way because that we don't

have a proper vetting process that is specific regions or States that's that's

the thing right there like there be there needs to be some proper vetting a

b we've got to we've got to get the you the the newer guys into placement

like getting um a guy that's been around a while never really you know did

Apartments I hate to like stereotype somebody because this this is literally someone out there but you know they do a

little bit here a little bit there they and 10 years later they they they're claiming they're the best the world and

they've never had any proper training they've never really turned it into a career doubled down on their craft any

of the stuff we talk about you've got to get them when they're still going to

listen you know I joined the industry when man all I maybe tire stores are a good

recruitment spot because I got really sick of having dirty dirty hands and

that's the whole reason I could be I got paid 50 cents for an hour to go be a carpet Helper and the work was cleaner I

would rather be on a a construction site than uh than um you know out in the cold

changing tires so that's yeah but but at the end of the day I want I want I

didn't knew nothing so I couldn't say like I was all ears I wanted to hear how

how this was all done I wanted to get good um Nate says I started the apartments

I'm not [ __ ] on everybody who's started Apartments we have all laid Apartments okay we all gotta start

somewhere get back to the apartments Nate stay in the apartment we've all done Apartments uh

that's not what I'm saying what I'm what I am saying is that once we get guys into the fold and we're able to somehow

make sure they get with good people eventually um and and and make sure that

once they're with good people that they're able to advance their career how we do that how we track that that's

happening that's what your Mohawks your Shaws your EF contracts that's what they

want they are giving money to uh the fcef for example and Jim Jim has done a

great job over at FCF but they have budget constraints and all this and that that speaks to you John that we have to

get out and get our uh okay thanks thanks that that speaks to

what you said John that the installers we got to get out and and create the

awareness as well doesn't but at some point we've got to get them trained

placed and then somehow Advanced like

trained placed and advanced into becoming because not everybody is just

self motivated for that there has to be a systematic way to do it not everybody's Daniel and Jose Who Loved

figuring this stuff out eventually they got to the point where they fell in love with learning the best methods and being

the best and doing the best installs and become and the notoriety that comes along with that is is um you know a nice

payment as well you guys are known as being freaking excellent flooring

installers especially when it comes to she vinyl and resilient products you're just known for that that's a great thing

to be known for but not everybody's that self-motivated so for it's just like

when I built this company and we have 30s something employees now at Stewart and Associates I had to change from a

five person company where I could tell everybody what to do to putting systems

in place that guided everybody on what to do and to do anything big you have to

have a systematic approach I cannot run this company do this podcast run you

know go Carrera and do all this if I didn't have great employees with great systems and great processes that allow

them to do their job and grow the company whether I'm sitting here on this call or in the office or not these my

people know what to do as a industry we have to set up the systems to train Place advance

we got the train we have training entities go go Carrera is committed this

next stent here is fully committed on filling that placement role through jump

start like we are going to get that right but there has to be others we can't be the only one to be honest with

you I'd love to be the only one because that means we're just huge and blah there just has to be other ways to place

and then Advance yeah that's what it is so we're we're lacking a a solid a solid

format a plan of succession if you will right that's what we're lacking I know that so now if we shift over to like a

the way the unions formatted they do have a plan but it doesn't always entail specifically just the flooring industry

they're just required to log training hours or and I don't know the ins and out so don't quote me if I'm wrong but

you know and in order for them to fulfill that they go to where the work is at because they're part of the Union

they they they can find work if there's dry in their area they can go elsewhere find work so they can have their dues

paid but well you know the the gc's call up and uh back in the day you know I I

was talking to a general contractor uh not too long ago about go carreri he's

like yeah it's just like a digital Union he's like uh which is funny because we

call it the digital Brotherhood uh not to take off any unions out there but um

he was like you know I I used to call the union hall and I'd say I need two Journeymen and this was more in the

carpentry side of things things but he's like I need two Journeymen and two apprentices and they'd come with their

card they showed that they're a journeyman what level they of training

they've taken like all these things were logged and tracked and advanced and

so yeah it's uh so we got a pretty long-winded one here from Jim I'm just

going to read it so that way because it it doesn't say the whole thing not to open up a can of worms here but the

starting pay for an installer for a helper has to increase guys in general we all know that a professional

installer can make a very good living after a few years in the industry but starting wages are constricting us I can

provide several examples where we've been working with Workforce Development organizations the employers of the

students involved and they shared with those organizations that starting pay would be

$15 an hour and then all your work up until that point was wasted and it was

all shut down at that point and that's what working against is things like this

where we are competing in an industry where even a McDonald's is starting at a

a certain wage and stuff like that but the fact of the matter is is where are you placing these guys because we're

we're in the industry we're at and how it's set up we we have to start at these

wages because there's not enough money in it otherwise sometimes let me say

yeah go ahead the um we're working and I I mean we've talked about this

offline before where I'm doing the these bids and people are going in at my cost

so how can I pay someone a higher wage when I can't even win some of these jobs

and then what they're doing is they're going with the lowest they're not even qualified they're going with the lowest amount

look at the email I just got about one of the jobs is sorry we lost this we were not low bid like that was the

followup well that that that problem is a whole new podcast like we have talked about how

that's a terrible the low bid scenario is a terrible scenario like it it sucks

but I would say the guy that we hired after the two week CFI course uh we

started well over that uh $15 a you have to take the risk B the

the problem isn't just the starting wage if you can't sell a vision of a career

then yeah you're being compared to the McDonald's the problem is they don't have a vision for the career so just

pushing back on Jim a little bit not like disagreeing with him but it's not just the starting wage the guy we have

to advance show that there's an advancement that if you could say stop

saying hey you make uh aund and whatever or you you make the it's like hey after

year three you can you you can you know you can be at this if that's a

systematic year three three years of you know a systematic processed three years

then you could be you know your aage the average wage is 72,000 or whatever um

you said it find this vision and Define it for them so that they know because I

can tell you we have guys that make in the 80s and 90s with full health care and all that and you add all that up and

it's over a 100 well over and they are

employee installers so yes you can make a good living and make a a good

wage but you I don't know how to sell that Vision because there's so few companies that hire employee installers

two of them on here I don't I don't know about you John uh necessarily I I I've

got I've got an employee but he's he's like Apprentice yeah um but I know Jose

and Daniel hire you know do the majority of their work in house we do a large a

good portion of our work but we still have Subs we don't hate Subs I love them that's why go career is around the we

just need some accountability around them where they have metrics that they

have to abide by and they and then hiring people and advancing them is

our is somehow we have to invigorate that in the in installation community

that these the subs need to quit trying to find the easiest way to get the job done and start looking at their

installation business as a business and as a career and hiring guys to advance

them so that in five years they've got a hell of a good guy that makes good money

they make good money on him like it can work that way so Paul I I want to just

jump back because what you said I think is what is one of the most important if

not the most pair up one of these students with somebody that gives a damn

you know you can't you can't take somebody that went from a an environment where there's learning positive attitude

all this great stuff and now you've got Debbie Downer over here that they got

work with because that vision is gone it's wiped out um I I'll share my story

I I moved back when I started Floor Covering I moved back in with my parents

because I liked what I did I was and it wasn't I didn't like my pay because it sucked but I liked what I did and I saw

a vision because of the people that I was working with I saw a vision of where I could be in a couple year I knew it

was going to take a couple years but I saw that getting that across to to

someone is very difficult because you might have some age constraint when when I go back and say if you've got a car

payment a house payment and you got kids 15 bucks an hour just ain't gonna can't

it ain't gonna work yeah well that's where intercepting

Talent at the right time comes into play absolutely you know getting them young enough out of train out of the

introductory trainings where yes 15 is what you could

get at your Chipotle but you're that's about that's all you're going to get at

Chipotle you might get a few uh you know inflation style raises to uh $16 by the

time you've been there three years but in three years if you dedicate yourself to this craft you're going to make

substantially more than 15 we're that that's the part

that somehow as a industry we have to tag on to this hey it's a great you can

make a bunch of money but you also have to it's like keeping that from being what they expect and and so many um so

many of the uh the instant this instant

gratification uh it was it was mentioned by a comment earlier that stated that you know they

want all this money right out of the gate this kind of thing

well the that part there's no solving that you just got to move on to the next

guy or the next person like if they don't think that they're going if they think they're G to come out of a six

week course and make a 100,000 a year there's something off there like you know's some delusion going on

in that person's life where yeah value doesn't reflect their knowledge hey Daniel won't you read off

Jims again so before he runs he's gonna say this he's preaching to the choir

right because we talk about it all the time he's been saying it for years manufacturers should require their

products to be installed by certified installers or else the product would come with no warranty it would solve so

many problems in the industry and he'll debate it 10,000% convinced it's uh one

of the best things a manufacturer could do for themselves and the industry at large great

conversation and I think that's kind of what um we just talked about that

recently actually we've talked about it and we support we support the whole freaking idea that manufacturers should

have a level of training what the hurdles there is what's a

certification by What entity who's governing that we have online

certifications we talked about this right yeah we talked about this C

like I remember just a couple of years ago that we were we're at convention and

this whole thing broke out and CF you know all the installers want this all of

us all the good guys who got went and got certified and uh are trained we want

this because we want to keep quit competing with guys who are not okay the

problem is is it UPA is it AF is it CFI is it ntca is it uh in nwfa and if it's

n wfas Only like does cfi's hardwood course count

does their certification count does it and so which who are they gonna who are

they going to Peg as the the one that the the the winner of all that that's

problem get the word certification and the name of it to qualif qualify that's

why we created the hammer rating we're not we're not no longer going with certification we're going to start calling individuals qualified if you

don't pass this test you're not qualified instead of certified and then they can list qualified on their on the

spec and that would change a whole lot it would it would require people to actually get the ball rolling get the

processes or the systems in place for the training for the classification of installers and their talents alongside

with the hammer rating which you have now but now you have an industry following and backing it requiring it

versus just a an owner or an architect or a business business I'm obviously

biased here but a zero to five rating that takes into account all of this is

the obviously the easiest answer now I know I'm biased because I created go Carrera and I I created the hammer

rating but the hammer rating just takes it doesn't matter if it's aft or CF or CFI or whoever did it whoever it's all

aggregated into the hammer rating and if the manufacturer just say this is you

must have a hammer rating of XYZ to install our product or else it comes with no warranty they're not tying to

any entity it cost the installer nothing absolutely zero dollars to get a hammer

rating and zero dollars to do so and the industry for whatever reason it's I I

don't know I don't know the answer I I feel like I know the answer but I don't know how to get it the the sponge to

absorb the water right and and like like Justin says because he went through

install right and the way that they did it and it's just an additional warranty

right you have to if if you're trained and you're qualified you have yeah you still have

this manufacturers warranty but if you use me this warranty gets extended like

that's an installation warranty they they provide I think it's through Lords of London that it's up to $25,000

or something like that replacement warranty if you use an install certified a guy that's certified through

install problem is there which I I love install from the training aspect but

they won't train non-union installers I know well I mean there's a partnership there right like if it doesn't make

dollars they pay their dues yeah and I get it I I I do wish if there was an

install guy watching this uh at some point that they would open up their program char a

nonmember fee to do the your training or something I don't know but install has a

hell of a program and turns out some really good installers honestly um but it is just for unions and we have a vast

GE geography of the United States that are non-un so just to get back on the topic

here right the installer shortage so I I know that we've kind of extended we've gone past our our just a little time

that's what that's what happens when you have great conversation it is too but um you know so really I'm just going to Su

summarize my thoughts we're not really having an installer shortage we're having a shortage of of knowledgeable

installers processes or systems and um a

path to get from A to B for people to find success so so really we're just we're lacking we're lacking

infrastructure in our industry when some places Union or not do in fact have that

but most of that is held internally now if we look at the the big

picture if there was more requirements right off the bat then more people would

find reasons to be structured to have those Pathways and it would it would be

it would be more weird to not have them than the companies who do have them so essentially it goes back to what I said

when we were in Georgia is the race to the bottom starts at the Top If the top

doesn't have the requirements then nobody's going to try to structure anything to follow requirements that

aren't policed yeah it would be it would

be um fantastic if the manufacturers had

like I would have never had to do anything with go careera if the uh if

the manufacturer had a you must be certified and and we knew

what certification meant and it was there was some law that prevented someone from creating some uh hobo style

training and calling it a certification like all the infighting uh

and it's not just our industry but we're really bad at that um so you know and I

appreciate all the great comments about the hammer rating that Jim and and and

Jorge said it was a well thought C out very long process to come up with a

system that just took all of the information from the trainings and created a rating um at the end what if

for for just thinking out loud here I mean what if you go on Mohawk Shaw and

any any of these manufacturers and they've always got find our product right find find a

retailer find a place to buy this what if they just what if just you know they

don't have to say must use certified installer must use you know we like the I like the word qualified but along that

they also have CFI nwfa they they they list that stuff right there on the site

so not only can you buy your product that you want but you can make sure you got the right right person you know uh

to to put it in for you I think that would go a long ways if they just do that I I am going to say one thing that

probably get me in trouble with some of the manufacturers I don't think

they he's got to think about work buddy I don't think they care about this as

much as we want them to because if they have to if their product requires a

higher level quality of installer they're going to sell less product that's why they have made tried to

engineer the qual the craftsmanship product yes and Nate

you're going to sell less material if it's harder to install and so they don't

want I think that's the resistance when I've talked to these manufacturers about using the hammer I'm like I'll I'll

debate anybody on this planet if you want to come up tell me about a better system that would give you a picture of

the skill and capability of an installer what we created if there's a better way

fine I would I would love to hear it but the bottom line is the manufacturers

have to adopt it and I I have had meetings

and it's clear to me that the number one number one concern is selling the

product not that it's installed correctly or that their product looks great when it's done it's just getting

it out the door right and then Jim DS does have this you know because there

aren't enough installers in the field so that's hard for them to do there aren't enough training or the training

organizations don't have the capacity to do everything like right away but if they come out with a solid

date like then it cuts off right here but it says by one one 2030 just

throwing a date out there the installer has to be certified or qualified or whatever it's going to be right it's

they do this with other things just look at um like M and how they're doing the

the CO2 or whatever they have on all their bags and interface was doing it with

the what were they doing it

with but I don't know but I can I I agree with that whole concept zero right

by by this date we're not going to use any more carbon or whatever their goals are they they throw these dates out

there all the time and this is just something that's never thrown out

there he we're all just basically winging

it well speaking of winging it we have wung it about a half hour past time it's

been probably one of my uh one of the best podcasts of recent times it's been

I think my my daughter is gonna shoot us she's on vacation and she's like

you guys running the longest uh podcast while I'm on vacation is fitting she said it way worse than

that though I'm sure I'll hear about that when I join them tomorrow or the next day pretty sure we're gonna break the

internet with this one though like it's yeah record-breaking well everybody needs to hear it whether it's the guy

who's just starting his install you know just got in the industry two weeks ago or the guy who's been in it for 50 years

um but that's it there just everybody's got to hear it nobody ever wants to talk about it can't keep swe sweeping it

under the rug right amen no no pun intended well guys it has been a

pleasure John I'm glad you were able to join us I know you had to stop and get some Wi-Fi and I appreciate that uh

Daniel and Jose you guys are awesome man it's was a great conversation I want to thank our audience for contributing and

and commenting if you guys catch us up uh catch us on YouTube give us a like

and a subscribe or a dislike and a comment uh interact with us if you want to get some of this uh you know help us

to continue to spread the message about our industry you know interact with us

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leave a leave a like and a subscribe or whatever you know give us some love I would say it was pretty cool we some

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LinkedIn that was pretty freaking cool um so anyway keep engaging guys uh stay

true to the craft and we will see you guys next week