The Huddle - Episode 119 - CFI/FCICA 2024 Recap

In this episode of The Huddle, Paul and Ben Walker from Go Carrera recap their experience at the CFI/FCICA 2024 convention in Orlando with the help of Jose! From the latest flooring trends to cutting-edge technologies and industry innovations, Paul and Ben share all the key takeaways from this year’s event. Whether you were there or couldn’t make it, this episode will get you up to speed on what’s shaping the flooring industry in 2024!

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up guys welcome to the Huddle we're your weekly playbook for not only

strategize on playing the game but changing it for mastering the fundamentals of the craft to

distinguishing ourselves in the marketplace we're here to give the installer a voice and ensure that you

are equipped with everything you need let's band together and Forge a new Legacy in flooring this is where you

belong welcome to the team what's up Jose and Ben what's going on sir how are you this

afternoon awesome well with me today as you know

uh Jose is back on the Huddle thank goodness good to have you back brother I

know you've been out in the field grinding Ben Walker our coo over at go Carrera and

um I'd say pretty frequent huddle um huddle uh attendee and and uh guest he

was at the CFI convention with me um this last week and so as we recap Ben

will have some some good input there how's how's your brother dude Mr Jose

how's your brother doing I think uh I think he's doing okay he's grinding out there still he's out there yeah he's out

out getting stuff done right now because said that's why we missed the event we couldn't make it we just had a little

more on our plate than than the the typical U October I would

say well I tell you what we sure missed you you guys were brought up a lot at the convention

people is so much more Jose and Daniel can't believe how much fun we're having without these guys man they should just

not come ever it was more like where are those lit up backpacks with all the messages on there it was stuff like that

everybody wondered where you were it was somebody else's opportunity to shine brother they could have uh could a took

a backpack and did it up well it was a it was a fun event I gotta say a few uh like notable things I

would say is the um the food was fantastic this year I I

don't know if it changed or what but there was a lot of comments on that uh it was a lot of really good uh seminars

and and uh trainings and I was there I mean I flew in hit the

trade show which was much bigger this year than it normally is

um I don't know if there was more people in the trade show but um it was

certainly a bigger trade show there's a lot more uh vendors so that could have made it feel like it was a little less

um you know uh packed but it was it was

pretty packed with you go there was one seminar or or version after another from

learning how to look at a set of drawings to um understanding how AI is

starting to affect I'd say starting to make some

pretty major impacts on oh yeah on uh you know bidding practices and and um to

product demos and so it was pretty cool what yeah the layout of the the layout

of the trade show was really different this year right I mean the room was a lot bigger I know there were more booze

I think there was upward close to uh 70 booths but because they had dinner in

there on what was that Tuesday night uh yeah or Wednesday trying to remember I

guess it was Wednesday uh and then the breaks and there the the trade show just went on a little bit longer and uh

uh it seemed more active there were just lot going on in the trade show I think overall attendance was something in the

uh something in the neighborhood of 360 is what is what I was told which is uh

maybe a 15% bump over last year so I think it grew both on the attendees side and it grew on the exhibitor side

also yeah I think I was I was following on social media and and there was a lot of people installers saying that it was

probably one of the best ones one of their favorites so far um and and I

think that's both for CFI and fcica since the joint venture started uh with

them I think they they're working well together um they're they're create

they're closing that Gap that communication gap right they're finding relatable interest from both sides and

and meeting in the middle and I I think that that's uh I'm always gonna say that's awesome no matter what yeah it

was good I I I enjoyed it um and particularly enjoyed hanging out and

talking to you know all the installers and and um

getting like the um their perspective on the

industry we preach it all the time about getting to to uh convention but you know

a lot of the um followup stuff that's been on social

media sense convention is that they need to make it more affordable and more accessible to installers so I thought

that'd be a a a good topic uh to of discussion today as well as as we kind

of recap um you know the the events of it

Ben what was your favorite uh event what was your favorite part of it do you have

one well as I sit there and think about it you know I definitely like the social the networking opportunities I'm I mean

I'm still building my own uh uh Circle my own you know setup my own network in

uh in the flooring industry and I appreciate each and every one of the opportunities to do that you miss the uh

uh closing ceremony because I know you had to get back for work but uh it again was good uh the room was really big uh

for it um but it it was still worthwhile and and um AIT karaoke singing that

happened before it was over that was kind of toward the end you say karoke there was karaoke for

sure yeah there was and the food was great there too uh you know I just they

had all those stations all the way around the outside of the room with different kinds of food at each one and

and the food was good from Shark finish uh you know no doubt about it um I

probably if I had to pick just one thing it's the trade show I mean since you and

I were both there and the hours were longer I mean I think we both had the opportunity to uh you know to to walk

around in addition to just working at our booth and I really uh you know like

that opportunity going to uh uh building our contacts with Federated insurance was a really big opportunity for us

there and same thing with commercial USA so uh uh I think the trade show added a

lot of value for me yeah that that was it I like the trade show there was a lot of uh

people um well you know how trade shows go it it gets pretty busy and and it was

pretty cool I liked the um I'd say my favorite like

educational portion of this was discussing estimating and listening to

other estimators talk about problems they have with drawing is the one I wanted to be

at and just being like yeah I've I've been there uh been there checking these

boxes like we're not the only ones and uh that and realizing that AI is not

too far it seems like I mean there's I I I feel like I've done a a

fairly Deep dive into some of that but not I still didn't realize how how close

it's getting um for being able to essentially take off the drawings I mean

yeah another couple years and I could see just loading a set of specs as a

first step to your to your uh uh system and then um it coming up

with the list of rfis for you to send out pre-written and you send them out what and then what goodness and uh you

know drawings and specifications and they compare and come up with the rfis and you'd review those rfis and decide

which ones you're going to send and send them on and I could see that being in the next couple years and then once

those rfis are back you'd feed the answer in to the the system and it it

would take it off uh with all the pertinent information that is provided

seems like that's going to be pretty soon um yeah Anastasia you know went into some detail on that uh from

diversify and it was it was it sounds kind of magical to be honest both both

she and Kathy did a good job at that seminar and I think that uh uh

that probably you know might have been the biggest takeaway of just how much AI is going to continue to change the

estimating portion of our of our industry it almost sounds like AI I mean

it probably already did or is in some Industries but uh taking over

the um the clerical portion of a a manager or an estimator or you know was

taking over some of some of that I think uh a lot of things are going to be

automated here pretty soon um yeah and you're going to be paying automation is going to be the same cost as a full-time

employee if not a little bit more but I think it it'll probably do more than what one employee can do without getting

a migraine well and then you got to wonder where where are you going to place your

resources um and I'm not playing on my phone I'm looking up some social posts for the that I want to bring up during

this for uh the from the convention

so but um another determine where you place

your um where you place your resources because you you won't

need uh resources and takeoff so what kind of you know it's going to change

the way that we do business it's gonna it's I think

yeah I was looking for some of those posts too but there's been so one of the posts uh from John sty he's uh a uh

awesome dude wonderful guy actually and uh brought up that there you know that

it was a successful week passionate installers around the world collectively sharing ideas

conversations and participating in uh education

there's a lot of pictures that were shared and but but to get to the Crux of

this it was basically uh CFI convention is for the

installer having a special event for the sole purpose of lifting the skill

confidence and awareness of the flooring installer moving forward I'd love to see this event grow I would encourage you to

share your thoughts and ideas about CFI with me as a member of the Advisory

Board want to know what CFI can do for you so anybody out there uh

obviously um you know the convention is built

around the installer and it's uh also intended for professional installers to

get plugged into CFI and th and those guys there's very few skills if any that

you won't find if you'll plug in um so if you're in the audience and you're watching and you're you're an installer

that really hasn't plugged in that's the first thing you want to do is plug into uh you know some of the the uh industry

organizations one of them being CFI uh and I think CFI is maybe you know

it's certainly one of the oldest and most reputable training entities but they you had an interesting Insight

earlier B kind of about that what they do really well at these conventions would you like

to well one thing I noticed is that you said off air one thing I noticed was during the

awards ceremonies I I I just felt myself really uh uh interested in and moved by

the CFI Awards I I think CFI has a has a core competency at finding the right

Awards to give finding the right people to give them to and and and making these Awards in a way that people really

respond to I think maybe some of that is Dave garden and uh you know his his

passion and his poose familiarity and his his personal style so that probably

has a lot to do with it but I just notice on on all of the CFI Awards

consistently that they just they just seem like really big deals and I I find

myself really appreciative of the people who've won these Awards because I'm just learning a lot about all they've

contributed um I think CFI is great at awarding that rewarding you know that

kind of contribution to the industry I think it's one of those things too where you know

um as flooring installers a lot of what we do I'm not saying all the time but a lot of what we do gets overlooked right

because we essentially in the day-to-day what we do is background noise um you

know um people who aren't in the trades don't necessarily pay attention to the details that and the effort that we put

in and for someone to to get right ignition in front of their peers um is

heartfelt right and it's it's not I don't think anybody in the industry that from the installation standpoint does

any of what we do for recognition we just do it because we're trying to make a living um but I think that that's why

it's probably more heartfelt or the way it feels heartfelt anyway because you know it's coming from installers uh from

installers by installers for installers I think that that's what what drives that bus and um always

um always appreciate sitting in and and hearing a backstory on on why someone was nominated or why someone won it's uh

it's always great to hear some of that because it's something that you might not know um a lot of the behind the

scenes yeah I I think the more we've brought this up before but of

all the installers on our Network at go Carrera there is a ton

that are under a 0.53 or 0.53 or under uh on a hammer

rating and that indicates just really low amount of

training um it was it it's it's abundantly clear that

that we have to get people plugged into the the into the industry installers in

general uh we have we're disconnected there's no licensing or annual thing

other than something like this uh so two really key points that kind of came out

of I'd say so Social Media stuff as well as on site is one of the um panel

discussions that I really enjoyed but it was a bit redundant from

previous discussions is how do we increase the pay of the installer um you

know how do you increase the efficiencies and make companies better

with better Crews and all of these things um how do you overall impact the

installation Community from a quality and professionalism standpoint on a large scale that was basically the the

panel discussion multiple different questions one way or the other and the there was

some good guys up there uh on the panel um you know that that uh were helping uh

um you know answer some of those questions but that has always been to me

like how do we align the in the installers goals with the company's

incentives and and vice versa so really that seems to be the biggest disconnect

because one of the biggest problems I see is

that you can't be an electrician without going and doing the the education piece

you just can't do it you have to get the certifications or the or

certificates for you to even touch a train um you know hbac system for

example to service it by by Parts anything you have to prove that you've

been certified or uh or or you're a licensed HVAC guy same thing with

electrical you don't get to go be an electrician without taking and getting

the education piece so

um the um lining the incentives with a

flooring provider of some sort whether it's a retail shop a box or whatever a

flooring contractor like you guys uh you know preferred flooring or Stewart Associates with the installers goals of

Performing and making money making money being the number one thing so how do you

align those deals together and you know the the union had a good way of doing

that um but unions are just not everywhere so there's the problem I mean you know a certain year Apprentice makes

a certain amount of money and a certain journeyman once you hit journeyman and

you keep going uh you you make a certain amount of money well most of those guys

are employee employees of an electrical company electrical contractor in floring

we have primarily we use subcontractors and so anyway that was

one and then Daniel uh you know Mr Daniel Gonzalez uh he brought up on a post he

says we got to get the cost down to make it so that the average installer can

afford it and then that created a whole kind of Whirlwind of discussion so yeah

you know do you think um I'll just kind of hit some highlights here Rand uh said

you know we agree and are always looking on ways that we can do that I I can attest that that is a goal for CFI they

they want to get it down so that more people can uh attend but there are hard cost I mean

there's food and place and the setup and like there's hard cost to it so well not

only the cost of that around that fixed cost and how you can make it more

affordable or maybe you just have some breakout sessions where you don't have food but I'd love to hear some thoughts

on how we can um lower the cost of convention because one of the things

that I think get you involved with CFI is if you go to convention you're kind of going to be going down that path of

you get sort of and then you might even expand your um Horizons to other

trainings you know what I'm saying uh you might uh as most people

know um what's up Kevin um as most people know CFI purchased nfic so now

they have the natural fiber portion uh as well in training well with that you

got you have all these opportunities to get better right and so a lot of people

when you go to that that uh convention you kind of get hooked and you start going into other trainings uh be it in

the past it would have been separately going to PJ and getting your you know some natural fiber training or you may

go to in uh you may like the tile portion of the world and decide to get with CTF and and that you know part of

the universe but once you it's like CFI convention is a big conduit for people I

think and so I think this is an awesome discussion is how do we get the price

down so that more people can show up and then how do you get the word out so that

um more installers know about it your average installer B that we talk to that

is you know just out doing the thing we're so plugged in we think other people watch and and search out

like knowledge and they don't a lot of them are just doing their thing every

day picking up materials going to a job site installing and get feeding their

family you know taking care of their responsibilities and I think that it is super easy to get you know caught up in

that when you know it's everyone's first priority and and I and so it's you have

to have some either some money or some time you know beyond doing that in order

to get involved in the industry and many many people never get to that point and you know Joan puit said we should have

CFI at his house and maybe we should maybe we shouldn't but but I think it does bring up an interesting point and

that is that uh a big part of the cost is getting there and and uh I know that

at least for the past few years this this has been in Orlando I think there's some conversation about moving moving it

around geographically as well isn't that right I think there's always discussions

about how to make it most uh attainable um I think

CFI one thing is having it in a populated area that that and and getting

the local people to go the local installers I mean you know

now there's some Geographic um pieces to that as well

like that you're down in Florida where they do a lot of tile in homes and a lot less carpet in homes and so getting in

an area where cfis where you got carpet and vinyl and and that's primarily the uh the flooring

put in those communities you know that might be uh one part of that

but cost is always going to be the thing and you have three costs you got the cost of the convention the cost of

getting there and then the cost of not working and this is the same

conversation that we have about training yes and that's that's that's the thing that that makes it hard is uh

not only do you have to have the time and the funds available to go down and

and enjoy yourself right because you're you're you're not gonna go down there just to go sit at a um a convention and

then leave and then go to your hotel room and sit around you're down there to network you're gonna spend some time

you're gonna spend a couple bucks out uh um mingling with people but at the same time what's at home what are you leaving on

the table at home what are you sacrificing at home for work um and

unfortunately that's why we didn't make it down it's we couldn't sacrifice at that time because we were just a

little still overwhelmed with you had Demand right you had demand

yeah in past years though you still had work that would have produced money you

you chose to go in lie of doing work back at your business that would have produced money

and so it's even that part even if an installer could put off you know a job

for a few days to go to it a lot of them do not see the value in

going whether it's again I think the problem with getting installers to convention is the same problem is

getting installers to trainings is the cost of getting there the cost of the class or the cost of the convention and

then the cost of not doing work I mean if you're a good installer you're producing a th000 bucks a day for

yourself and and upwards of that but I mean you know kind of if you wanted to

use a baseline number well if you're creating a, dollar of of money for

yourself in a day every day or close to it and you go take three days off where

you just that's three grand plus the cost of the convention plus the um you

know the other stuff so uh it's I I

believe it's those those things are what we got to kind of try to we really have

to figure it out what where can you get and consider this there's two options

you lower cost or you increase value so how do we value to where the installer actually

earns more that's one possibility where it's like I can't not go to this or because I'm it's

like a doctor going to getting another thing uh if they if they go get this

they're going to be able to do this XYZ procedure and make so much more money

that like you can't afford not to go so how do you do it how you either create

it to where you can't afford not to go to this um

or yes we will hey Zeus but calling them out well you got

you know you gotta get you gotta get the I think he lost his password and and we got to get it reset and go through and

the security features on go career doesn't allow us to just go get in his account which is a good thing right try

be Jose Galas holy smokes can't get anything no PayPal no nothing uh have

two events a year uh bang for the buck in education that's

possible um that that's that's adding value so you got that option you either add a ton

of value where you're like I can't afford not to go and I look at like going to fuse conference like that for

my business when I I'm a fuse member and when I go to conference it literally I

find things there that make make us more money or make us more profitable or make

us more efficient or better at hiring or whatever and so I look at like I can't

really miss this or else I'm GNA miss a a nugget or a thing that will make my

business more successful we have to have either that or you're going to have to

lower it to where it's basically free at a very populated area and do a

really good job marketing so that what what do you think which what what what type of uh of uh approach

do you think I mean what's your guys's opinions on those and am I am I missing something

is there another uh option no yeah I think you're pretty spot on is

uh trying to increase the value right but it's and I think Kevin had mentioned he

says one issue at a time right and he's and he's right can't tackle too much at one time but

it's one of those things where well what is that issue what what

is the first biggest most important issue to hit you know um the first most

the biggest issue with it all is that we are not required to carry any type of

certification qualification or anything like that so that I mean that's the biggest issue because if we were

required to do that like you said the doctors got to go back to school teachers got to go back for their masters continue

education is a is mandatory in almost every other career well and if you think

about the amount of stuff we talk about it a lot on the on the podcast about we have to be you know environmentalists we

got to be chemist we got to know site conditions and floor and the products

and all that and and speaking of of of that you know one of our sponsors Flor

Cloud helps us to get that information right at our

fingertips uh you know floor Cloud allows us to discover uh what the

job site's telling us and makes us more productive that's one of the Technologies uh that have come out and

so we've talked about adopting technology as well on this and so getting your your project site

conditions right at your fingertips will increase your efficiency and profitability with floor cloud and guess

where I found floor Cloud at a convention right so same you know that's

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your that information right at your fingertips no matter how far away from your project uh you are and if you're a

flooring company being able to dispatch your Crews knowing that the job site is ready uh at least from an environmental

standpoint is huge I know you guys use it up there Daniel or you and Daniel and

you guys have had uh great success with it so look into floor Cloud um yeah so some of the feedback

here is that you know we need to change the sorry one of us uh we need to change

the location to more of a central area and it looks like there's a lot of uh of

support for that um centralized area with an airport Hub uh Dallas makes a

lot of sense to be honest with you just because it's got such a large population

that can get there and it's got a large population around it they do all flooring there that would be probably

somewhere that isn't going or can't typically get affected by a hurricane or something like that right there you go

it does not most times most times you know I really I really noticed that

there were quite a few people who drive and and uh you know clearly if you're in

Salt Lake City or Denver or or San Diego or or even Kansas City it's it's hard to

drive uh as far away as uh I'm with you on that Jus by the way no Dallas but

anyway uh uh having it in Orlando let C lets a certain number of people drive

and having it in some other places that are geographically wet would give a

different set of people an opportunity to drive and there was definitely a lot of conversation among the leadership

there and Orlando about having it in some other places you know the other thing back hold on there just a quick

second uh back to that one let let let me so one of the things that Jorge is

suggesting here is that we have all flooring installation events together and he follows that up

with uh for example if Ty is free then we would have we should also have

something at that point so people go and uh don't have to spend the money and you

B but but your Mills so I believe what he's saying is

that having convention at Ty or something like that you're already going

to one so having the a whole you know getting a part of and correct me if I'm

wrong here Jorge but having part you know CFI Convention as part of TI like

your own the whole convention being at the same time maybe even in the same

building because you know Mandalay as big as Ty is it doesn't take up the whole thing then you have the convention

you have the uh the the uh installer competition all that kind of in that

weekend um that's something to consider and we're not making any determinations I'm just throwing stuff out there and

getting our audience to throw some stuff out there because that's not a bad idea this is what everybody wants is to incre

that's part of CFI or in the installation community at all I I would say even you know whether you're with

CFI or AF or uh fcic or any of the

training entities ctef any of them if you could imagine all of them are going to be there anyway and then you have a

separate convention just f a separate part of the convention not the inst row

where it's just tools and stuff but an actual convention that's installer

focused and it'd be really nice if a lot of these training entities could get together and do some some um collab

collaboratively together on that but you know that's that's uh just another

idea uh Jesus says uh Houston Texas has more installers that need help so I'm

not sure if I've ever done a um a um survey or anything on that but I think

installers need help everywhere every every time we get new installers on the

uh application it is um it is clear that we need more

training and we've got to figure out how to do this um one interesting thought

was could some of that you know from a training perspective could you do some of that remotely uh that's been brought

up before as well Kevin says you wouldn't have uh you wouldn't have the money from vendors at

Ty true yeah like when you start digging into all this stuff like tradeoffs each

thing gets its own compensation now could you tell the vendors hey you're double doing this thing you'd spend it

anyway later on in the year this put your more focused uh efforts for

installer Focus stuff in this area over in the other convention hall with the uh

installation Community I don't know what thoughts on that

Kevin you know another thing I noticed Roberts so he knows from the the

sponsorship side you know I noticed that sorry go go

ahead well I was just gonna say one of the things I noticed that at at last week is you know with the SIM

program FC FCC has you know people getting their continuing education

credits all through the the conference that we had last week I don't know if there's any opportunity on the installer

side on the CFI side for there to be uh you know some some installer training

that could be happening at the same time that you would actually get some sort of accreditation for that may be an

opportunity to add some value to the meeting yeah and then Kevin C with the

certification right and I think that that's the hard thing too right like so you go to event

like uh the convention or ties but then you throw in a certification in there

um you eliminate the networking aspect of the convention because now you're

confined to um training class and but however if that is your sole purpose is

to get a certification or some kind of training and then you can add in the the networking opportunities after class

before class or lunchtime um you know you if if that's what you went for and

you can add that then that's another way to look at it as well um but I was gonna say when I when I interrupted you so

rudely interrupted you Ben is um I wonder if there's a metric to see um the

dollars and cents that are actually being spent from like no not necessarily the vendors but the installation side of

of somewhere at ties and to see if there's a return on that and Roi that

and and well they would you mean from the vendors or uh not necessarily the

vendors but like from the installers that are attending how much of it is focused towards attracting installers to

a product versus attracting a store or a sales company to a product well you know

that's primarily what Ty is for yes I mean you know and that's why if you did

do it a dual Convention as proposed and just my thoughts on it is you'd have to

have the installer convention like separate in a separate area um but you

know one of the um I could let me uh just hide that for

just a second uh to finish this one thought you're cool uh is one of the things is if you did do that would would

vendors see a return on investment the vendors wouldn't be there if they don't see something I can tell you that

companies they they see something we have to get that same kind of thing going with the installer like and the

attendees go why does why do people go to Ty well partially probably to get a a

couple days away where you're working but you're also connecting with industry people that you get to see once a year

uh and have some fun you're probably looking for new product lines some people are there buying like their next

year's worth of stuff you know big big retailers and such um education is a

piece of it it's always well attended um you know so we have to create that same

kind of uh thing for installers it has to prove one of the points and this goes

right with this is in this uh thread here on Facebook is that you know

essentially the cost of going is somewhere uh around what we talked about say a th000 bucks and then uh one of the

things that got brought up is you're not you're not talking about the loss of of

profit or the loss of your your production for those days um but Matt

Garcia uh chimes in and says he knows many industries that charge five to 10ks

for events like this it's all about and I'm paraphrasing so this is not a quote

but essentially uh if the k is making sure the convention has real

value for the attendee that they're going to make more for going than than

they spent on it and that's what we were talking about earlier is adding that value to where it it's yes it's costly

to go but you almost can't afford not to go

um it and you know and and value might not you might not walk away from from

the convention in in two weeks make your money back right but it's the connection that you find out there from networking

that could uh potentially save you um on not in improper installation save you

with some new tooling that you find that that speeds up the installation process over the next year um material that you

find to replace other things that you might been might have been installing uh that you're not too happy with I mean

there's a a lot of ways to get you return um on on your investment on

attending I think it's just a matter of how you want to approach it what is like we said ear what's your purpose that's

the thing that Kevin said earlier is focus on one thing at a time I think Focus focusing on one big thing at a

time like do you add value or do you make it cheaper to me you have to add value that's just my opinion feel free

to disagree with that but I think not making it CH making it cheaper is just

trying to drive it down the experience what else can be done that makes it

Irreplaceable and a must go that's adding value like what what

Dwayne said when you start talking about lowering the price and this is what you shared earlier Jose is you know a lot of

it takes so much to just set up for Ty for the installation competition that

you're they the guys that helps with the setup and I've I've talked to Dwayne during that week when they set that up

when he was really involved in that and it he's just exhausted he's he's worn

out and ready to like go home afterwards you know and so if you had a dual

convention how much more complicated would that be and Kevin brought up the same problem from the vendor perspective

so maybe that's a tough one maybe it is there again just adding

value seems to be easy not easier not easy but easier or a better value

proposition a better long-term solution than cutting cutting the cost down to nothing to make it free or cheap super

cheap well and it's one thing too it's uh you add value to it right and word gets out the value that was added um

more people are going to show interest with in turn more people are going to want to attend and if they get value out

of it on the next go around they're going to spread the word and that's I mean that's the what business 101 right

that's an organic way of of getting the attendance that that you need in order

to make it more affordable by volume versus value so I guess uh you feed it

uh uh the fuel for the the value fire and uh next you know you got more people

showing up with buckets to put it out buckets of water to put that fire out and they just make the fire bigger the

next year you know for sure with such a big percentage of the insulation Community

not going to these conventions and you know not seeking out formal training but people aren't seeing that value right or

else or else they just they have not reached a level where they can a afford to seek out that value but there's a lot

more opportunity to make more value in these meetings and make more value out of the training than there is to make it

cheaper I mean if you work super hard to make it cheaper you lower it a few bucks and that's about it and maybe you still

didn't make it more affordable for someone but if you add value to it you can you can just have a much bigger have

a much bigger impact and you know maybe one way to do that is with some training at the at the actual

conventions yeah our certification you know uh Jorge makes a good point everybody honestly everyone just needs

to make more money Work Hard Play Harder that also goes right into uh another

Facebook uh comment that says how about we uh get the average installer making

more money no installer should need financial assistance because there was some suggestion about financial

assistance to get there like if we're all running businesses and installation businesses and making uh money uh and

I've proposed and I am Shameless in proposing that you know paying installers based on their their skill

score uh based on the level of skill they they possess and then how they

provide that skill to the marketplace which is what go Carrera is all about the hammer r is all

about your years of experience your certifications your trainings from all

entities I am a huge proponent obviously that that is a mechanism in which

installers can get paid more because they're higher trained and you separate the oil and water so to speak from the 0

53s that really plague uh are I shouldn't say plague but make a large

part of a large part of the industry is is that 15year 20y year guy that's never

had any industry training that is a large portion of our installation Community we need to get that to where

the average is not you know a 045 or 053 or something Hammer rating but a 1.5 or

something and then you have a robust uh installation Community

um so I I I still believe that

what Matt says here is true how about let's figure out how to make the installer more money and uh you know

higher skill higher uh execution equals higher pay and that if we can get adopt

a format that is there by the way industry um that you're a higher skill

level with a higher execution of the the skill set equals higher pay then you get

this machine running where people want to get the industry training to increase their their rating um and if anybody had

another rating I don't care it's just if you have a way to to score the installer

that then allows them to compete based off of that score they're going to want to have a higher score I mean it's

gamification of our installation uh skills and what you're saying it works

there a universal rating scale that could be recognized by the industry worldwide that could give us a

foundation to base this on then the world would be a lot happier place

because the installers would be happier but would give you better floors yeah that's what I'm hearing that's what I'm

that's what I'm that's what I'm saying I wonder where you can get something like that where where could a

person go to find something like that man you so the there's obviously there's

always um stuff with um technology

that's new and difficult uh you have the application of the technology but you have the concept of the technology uh

use use uh use something that's been that that's that was like this

ridiculous thought and is now uh the reason we're able to sit at our

computers and talk and that's the internet in the 80s late ' 80s through the 90s people thought this was the

stupidest thing since you know ever and had no way to think outside the box and

that is the thing I feel like we're there where we we have a solution we do have ways to do this as an industry and

adopting those ways it's it's free to do so just you just adopt it and Y uh and

you don't even for anybody on here you don't have to have you don't have to do

work or have an account on go career to do that part you can have a profile only

and U so long long and short of it is increasing value um so in uh Elena says

uh enforce an industry standard that support the manufact that has the support of the

manufacturer is the only way in her eyes uh that's going to bring the installer

pay increase I agree that that is a piece of it I don't know that

it's the only way I think the consumer demanding I want to know what level of person uh of installer Mr retailer that

you're providing me they don't know they would love to know uh it's kind of like a Carfax you want to you want the Carfax

when you buy a used car now when you buy a car with experience you want the Carfax you want to know what that you

want to know what that car's been through so you can predict how it's going to behave in the future that's what the hammer rating does for the

installation community and we have talked a lot about the uh with a lot of Manufacturers

about adopting it I'm not sure what the I still cannot put my finger on what the

reluctancy is to in in the manufacturer Community I don't I don't understand it

and I don't quite know how to how to say it there is a system a free system

that will allow the installer to have a graded a a a datadriven score skill

score that then can be leveraged by them to make more money and say hey I'm worth

more money and manufacturers to adopt and say you need to uh have XYZ level uh

you need to be XYZ level of installer to install this product that's already

there um Elena says the consumer needs to see the

value in the installer we have to Market it that way we are more than installer

we are the professional 100% And in the commercial world it's it's actually more

so we've won work because of certain installers who are certified

or really really really good on our team I literally have gotten contracts

because they said hey if XYZ guys on promised on my job I'll I'll give you

the contract same so the consumer just has to be aware that there's different

levels of installer that's really the deal and um it you know becomes more and

more clear to me that we need to Market and make it clear the to the to the

homeowners that are buying products that there is a way and to demand it if every

consumer did demand a hammer rating and to know the level of the installer coming into their home to install their

floors uh it would change the industry and and force uh the the labor which is by all

accounts you go to any convention you talk to even most manufacturers and they'll tell you it's the most important

part of the the deal so how do we get uh the the the skill score the hammer

rating um to be part of everyday conversation like Ms RP or like the

ingredients and nutrition facts on a label for food how yeah that that is

that's what that needs to become more public knowledge instead of Industry

knowledge um yeah I think a marketing campaign for us uh to uh inform the the

consumer uh you know we're we're talking to the UK um people over in the UK about

licensing go carera and that's how they're going to do it they're they're just

like you you as a consumer you should know the level of of the quality of the

person coming into your home both from a skills standpoint and how they perform their work that would hold all of the

installers more accountable uh now the really good guys before I get bombarded

and jumped on here the really good guys hold themselves accountable anyway most of the people that are at CFI convention

or are on the the podcast here commenting they hold themselves

accountable I'm talking about the 0. 53s and the under one uh hammer rated people

those people they need to be held accountable to a higher level and have

an incentive package that then uh inherently incentivizes them to go um

and and and and get the industry training and increase their Hammer rating increase their skill set and

become industry uh trained installers you know Factory trained so to speak

well industry trained there you go we don't have Factory training anymore so I agree with

um Elena a ton on all these points like

you do have to have the manufacturer say we need this level it's been

talked like we beat the dead horse about um the fact that yes it needs to be

talked about or the uh the manufacturers need to have some level whether it's saying you got to be certified the

problem is then they they have to there's so many

different levels of training that are called certifications um

so you know that that's that is pro gez we ran through an hour on these two I

know I know dude uh so CFI convention was awesome for any of you that did not make it down it was really cool uh those

are two of the biggest takeaways uh that kind of came out of it was like that I

seen on social media afterwards is making it more affordable the counterargument to that is just make the

installer more money and make it more valuable if you make it more valuable

where the installer cannot can't afford not to go and they're making more money

because of it and you have a system behind all that that makes them more money as they get higher higher trained

and you add a certification to the convention some level some mix of those

items would start to create like a juggernaut in our industry it make a real change in our in our install

Community man it sounds uh it sounds really easy to the people that love what they do and look forward to to the

progression of our industry and do someone who might be starting out out there listening or someone who's been in

business for a while and doesn't see the value in the training or certification because you're doing okay you're doing just fine just imagine doing better than

just fine or doing okay can be the start of it well it's

it's um it seems like you said it seems like it's it's uh it almost seems like duh kind of

thing but getting the getting the manufacturers to jump on board any manufacturers that watch this

you guys that it blows my mind I don't understand you want your products

installed by high quality people at every convention they're talking about how much they care about the installer

well enact a mechanism that requires certain level installers for certain parts of your products that has nothing

to do with you so you're not on the hook for a um uh you know uh you know they quit

doing certifications because they the the the risk factor right like most of

the Mills don't do their own certifications anymore this is totally separate from you all you have to do is

adopt it and and start using it and um yeah it's it's tough It's a tough deal

it's it's like we're screaming from the rooftops and Elena says the difference between preaching to the C choir right

yeah I feel like that's what we we do every week is preach to the best when how do we reach the ones that really

need our help um but uh any manufacturers out there any big dogs in

the manufacturing company that want to come on the podcast and talk about this we can black your screen out you can

voice we can do a voiceover but if you want to express some some internal concerns on why this can't work from a

manufacture standpoint and why you think it won't work or if a metric you have that shows that it won't work would'

love to hear from you like is that you get Anonymous we'll put a silhouette with a question mark and we'll make you

sound like Corey from Wolf like what voice sound like the State Farm guy or

whatever whatever insurance that is but yeah let's do whatever so the the

topic would be uh Kevin says he's in so Ashlin take that down Kevin said he's in

let's get some manufacturers on here to have a real conversation about how do we

actually increase install our pay how do we um affect our installation

community in a positive manner but through what everybody believes it

happens in every other industry that we we talk about is we have grading of of

the of the labor pool and um what ideas are out there what is available now that

works and has proven to work by the way uh on the go career Network on the installers that do work on the go career

Network the higher Hammer rated guys make more money period we've processed 30ish million

dollars in payments the higher Hammer rated guys make more money by far so

that is not I I can stand behind that the data proves it um but there's if

other people have other ideas other thoughts bring them to the table like

Solutions we talk about the problem a lot but we don't dive down on a solution

and say okay this solution won't work because XYZ and start to really try to

find the root solution for the problem uh that would increase attendance at CFI

uh convention why because they're going to have a certification there I'm not saying they will I'm saying if they did

that that would be a great add-on and you would go your Hammer rating would increase you go out into the marketplace

with your calling card that has your Hammer rating on your public profile and be able to upsell your client and make

more money than an average installer that does not have uh the same uh level

of skill that you do you actually can can can can separate yourself from a skill

standpoint very clearly right in in like in writing in black and white black and

white thank you you saved me again Jose thank you it's exactly what I was trying to

say so yeah Ashlin let's start planning to try to reach out to manufacturers and

come up with the topic name uh great topic this week I feel uh we should run

it back [Laughter] next Kevin thank you so much buddy for

always uh uh lots of really good comments and uh was a lot that we didn't

click on I didn't want to I didn't want to I kept overlaying his convers or what Paul was talking about whenever he was talking and then I stopped paying

attention to what you're saying I started reading it so I just I left it that's what I was doing super interactive today super

interactive lots of good input and suggestions well uh so that is it for

the Huddle this week thank you everybody for joining us if you're catching us on Facebook comment about these couple of

topics do we you know the the here's the the bottom line make convention and

events and training cheaper or make it more valuable how do

you um how do you require a how can a manufacturer require a higher level of

installer and how do you know an installer's higher level um and and uh

let's have a great conversation about this and um we we'll run this back Kevin and have

you guys on I can't wait uh it's it's awesome everybody uh that joined us

today if you if you like I said if you're cat one of the social channels make a comment give us a like give us a

a dislike whatever you like um if you catches on uh the recording of This that

goes on uh YouTube you know like And subscribe is on there follow us give us

some love gentlemen this was an awesome podcast I enjoyed it what's up

Ben hey s just so you know Jus I've been talking to Raquel we're gonna be in touch with you in the morning and get

you straightened out yeah he did he Ben's alter ego name is

Kevin just so that just so that's out there for the whole inner webs to know

maybe one day we'll tell you guys how that came about yeah Jose Poss brother we missed him at not only

at convention but on the podcast and hopefully we can um we'll see him this next week love you guys keep up the good

fight thanks everybody for all the great comments it was a really busy podcast and love to see it and we'll catch you

guys next week give us a thumbs up thumbs down uh help us increase the audience of this show we love you all

right thanks everyone thank you