The Huddle - Episode 134 - Live from tise 2025

Broadcasting from the heart of The International Surface Event (tise), bringing you an inside look at why trade shows like this are a must-attend for flooring professionals. From networking with industry leaders to discovering cutting-edge innovations, these events are essential for staying ahead in the field.

In this episode, we dive into the excitement of the CFI Installer of the Year competition, where top talent from across the industry showcase their skills under intense pressure. We also sit down with industry icons and the new leader of CFI, Ralph, to discuss his vision for the future of installer education and certification.

Plus, we introduce a fun twist—competitors and guests pull random questions, leading to some great insights and unexpected laughs. Whether you’re an installer, a business owner, or just passionate about the flooring industry, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways.

Tune in to hear how tise is shaping the future of flooring, why you should be there, and how the competition is pushing industry standards to new heights!

Thank you to our amazing sponsors for the tise 2025 event!
The Summit for Installation - https://nafct.com/the-summit-2025/#registration
Roberts Consolidated - https://www.robertsconsolidated.com/
Ardex Americas - https://www.ardexamericas.com/
Floor Tool Store - https://www.floortoolstore.com/
Divergent Adhesives - https://divergentadhesives.com/
Reach Social - https://reachsocial.media/
QEP - https://www.qep.com
Henry - https://www.wwhenry.com
Novalis Innovative Flooring - https://novalisinnovativeflooring.com
FCICA - https://www.fcica.com
Go Carrera - https://gocarrera.com
Stubbi Flooring Tools - https://preferredflooringmi.com/stubbi

The Huddle Podcast is where the flooring industry comes together to connect, learn, and thrive! Recognized as the #1 podcast in the flooring community, we provide an unmatched platform for professionals to discuss everything from installation techniques to industry trends.

At The Huddle, we’re all about driving Forward Progress—empowering seasoned installers, contractors, and flooring enthusiasts to grow, innovate, and lead in their craft. Whether you’re looking for real conversations, actionable insights, or inspiration to take your career to the next level, The Huddle is your home for real discussions that matter.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email forwardprogress@thehuddle.team

We want to send a special shoutout to our sponsors!

FloorCloud
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Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
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Please visit our new website! https://thehuddle.team

what's up team welcome to the Huddle your weekly Playbook where you gain forward progress in your flooring career

I mess up this intro every week but I got a good I got a good excuse we're live from TY baby thank you for joining

us for our new uh viewers welcome to the team today just like we promised we're

going to shoot live from TY so we got obviously as always we got uh Daniel and

Jose Gonzalez and we got Jose sorry sorry jge Georgie Jorge as

you guys know Jorge uh runs one of the uh episodes on the podcast for our

Spanish viewers he does a great job Jorge how was your trip in it was uh it

was fun um I'm glad to be here everybody's excited there's a lot of commotion with the with the competition

uh we got people from uh the other side of the of the of the pond yeah from

England uh so they're here to compete we got our CFI people we got

iupat uh so it's it's it's pretty exciting everybody's excited to see the competition a lot of people different

representation in the competition from different you know some some people are really heavy into a certain training

entity like CFI or o opa opat right I a so uh you got different

representations and like you said we even got people from across the pond yes sir uh yeah we got uh the union which is

I iupat and CFI which is uh here uh residential commercial and then we have

um FC FC we got the guys from uh across the pond yeah nfic we got so many people

and uh it's it's pretty exciting that's awesome Jose what's going on brother Jose had a

great idea before the podcast and I got to tell you guys this so uh we're gonna have people pull from our little Bowl

here and they are GNA answer whatever random question he came up with out of his brain so bear with us I I I this

this is the disclaimer but yeah so Jose had the idea

where'd you come up with that what what what' you do today that like sparked this thought you know sometimes you just

show up and the ideas just flow in and I have no clue what's part I was like you know it'd be funny just to have like a

random like question generator right but you know you can't just have that because where we're at it's got to be

kind of specific yeah so that was it's just like hey what do you think of when you're two minutes to to going live you

just think of something that's gonna take a half hour to do yeah and as you guys see I'm on my phone down here but

because we don't have all the technology that we usually have in front of us we're just trying to make sure that we're still reaching the audience that

that we're used to reaching yeah so fun stuff want to do a uh quick shout out to

our sponsors Daniel's over here working away he he is the him and Ashlin are by

the way the brains of the operation I get on here and ramble and talk about nonsense as best as I can here we go

we're going to have a first walkth through

yes so we had our first walkth through and uh Jose owes me 500 bucks thank you

yeah he bet me no one walk through and look within the first three minutes we

had a walk through so you would think that one of the people with uh the highest IQ probably in the building

would recognize that yeah he's a genius by the way just uh I guess uh Street

smarts uh is uh skips Generations so all right so uh quick quick quick shout out

to our sponsors we're going to kick this up here make sure to you know take notice of who sponsors us

who who really supports what we're doing here in the floran industry we got Ardex we got go Carrera preferred flooring Q

novales Henry uh adhesives Divergent adhesives shout out to Sunny

FC uh the summit hey make it to the summit by the way just a quick shout out

to the summit that's February 17th through the 19th in Dalton I believe isn't it yeah so make it down there that

is going to be really if you're an installer that one's going to be super focused on installation so we got the

floor tool store Roberts and I can't read social reach social professional

social media there you go learn a thing or two from scan the QR code go check out our sponsors and uh if you get a

chance to buy buy from them and tell them we sent you so and also I learned today that you can screenshot that and

then long press the uh QR code and it'll take you to the website I was years old when I learned that today today years

old yeah so um we are going to bring in some guys from the competition Jorge

thanks for joining pull a pull a quick

question all right we're gonna have some quick questions for these guys and uh who's gonna be we're gonna have our

first person Tyler Elliott let's head uh the question is is training important

and why tell us why you could sit down in my spot yeah have a seat what's your name Tyler Elliott hey

Tyler Paul Stewart nice to meet you nice to meet you welcome to the Huddle yeah all right so you got your first question

we're gonna hit this off with that Icebreaker what is is training important and why is training

important well I've years and I tell you what like just when you think you know it all you

you're learning new stuff every day and uh just like at a competition like this I mean you you really know uh you know

there's there is new things and New Opportunities and training is so important one of the cool things I

noticed of the competition was the different uh approaches the guys are taking to the

booths and you can really see I mean they're all appropriate it's just different approaches to each you know

method so to speak so you don't do you guys pick up on that when you guys are

uh competing out there or you just so focused on what you're doing that you're just kind of laser focused on getting

your stuff done yeah I try not to focus on the other

competitors uh because uh there there's more than one right way to do things you know and it's like sometimes it's what

what works for you you know if it especially when it creates the same end result just uh just like uh I I work

with uh my my family I have I work with six other guys that have my last name in

Minnesota so it's just like we we're we all do do things different you know so

it's that expence right thing is important I like to do things the right way so I mean training training is very

important to me yeah a lot of the things we try to talk about on the Huddle is like building that good foundation with

good Education and Training and then those tricks and techniques that you guys um you know pick up on and what you

were just talking about you know you guys you all have the same last name and you probably do little tweaks

differently on each one so that's pretty cool give me a um you know a really good

at what went right today and what did you struggle with uh what went right today um well I got off to a really good

start I got my 45s perfect I got my double ovals swung perfect I got

everything was going going good off the bat and uh I think I'm just trailing a

little bit behind of where I thought it would be so did you keep all your members did you cut anything scratch

anything real good you kept all your digits yeah I had one little mess up where my my scribe actually bounced it

it moved on me I thought it had it tight but it moved so I had to replace them pieces so I mean things happen like that

I mean yeah I'm I mean I have 18 years experience but these guys were going up against some of them have 25 years

experience so yeah I mean it's it's it's a blessing to be here but it's also kind

of eye openening you know it's like these guys are really good yeah and they're really you can tell that they've

had training I feel like amen most important question you having fun absolutely awesome it is such a blessing

to be here awesome Tyler thanks for joining us brother appreciate you yeah thank you so much for having

me Good Luck appreciate thank you so much you're welcome welcome how's it

going man hey what's up Justin Lopez Justin tell everyone how you do I'm

Justin Lopez AKA the floor doctor on YouTube I make a few little videos I got

other than that I'm just here on this competition testing my skills and uh seeing where I can take it home show

your showing my skills and testing them so uh I I didn't ask the previous um uh

guest Tyler but what what which Booth are you working on I'm working on the lvp lvp

okay pull a question we're going to break the ice with the little question out of there who knows what it's going

to be again disclaimer Jose came up with every question what is this what is the

biggest threat to the flooring industry in the next three to five years ask a good question um I don't know I'm really

thinking that you know this uh I don't know if you've seen how they uh make

screens and you the whole screen change changes colors and all that I'm thinking that's going to be on the floors pretty

soon and before you know it you're going to be walking on whatever picture yeah like you know like it could be a picture

of a lake or picture of something yeah I have a feeling that might change the industry because as soon as you go that

direction and everybody sees that they're going to want it yeah and that's going to just take out the wood look I mean you'll have a wood look if you want

you'll have a carpet look if you want or tile look you know that's the only thing I could think of that I think would tear take me out the the uh so I'll push back

on that because I think what's going to happen is if that was like the trend I think think it'd be a trend because you

know what is great about flooring is the feel yeah like true why why does why

isn't why is hardwood still around yeah like it's way more expensive than lvp

right right it's just the natural product I'm assuming the look The realness of it like lolium the smell of

lolium for some reason I mean you could walk on wood and know you're walking on Wood versus exactly right lvp right so

like it's the fact that you have a different feel under foot of the surface carpet you can't really ever get that

with LED light so we're going to be around a bit baby I don't think that's going to take us out um what else do you

think Labor uh anything like that I don't know like when I think about that it's kind of hard to like if it was a

robot to teach a robot to do what we do because it's like yeah it's I don't see

the de I mean I don't know I I I'm not a tech guy either or you know what I mean I'm only floor layer so yeah there

there's I I think we're far down on that list too yeah you know one of the things that I I always um consider when that

question comes up a lot in the Huddle actually yeah but don't you don't you think it's it's got to be bringing up

the Next Generation and making sure we're properly trained as a good foundation and reinforcing the skilled labor as a as a

career I was talking to a guy on the way here in my Uber driver and the the

conversation was about when my dad was a skilled labor he so he was a painter a

professional painter uh that generation yeah the skilled labor the the bread winner could

work Mom could still stay home yeah and you could still afford a house like

that's not necessarily the the skilled labor is slipping out of the middle class that was a middle class job and uh

we're we're working on the Huddle to get it back there and I think it is like it's it's a good job it may and I'm not

saying like from an earning perspective I'm talking about more from the way people perceive it and as long as we can

get uh you know continue to in uh bring in good quality uh people and get them

trained up as an industry and people like you teaching the Next Generation I am a second generation my father's a

floor layer all my families are floor layers all my buddies I went to high school I got them in the trades so I'm

just surrounded by Flor lers and I was I was a tech rep for three years I could talk I could talk floors all day long

you know but sounds like you're not the this isn't the last time no no no I'm

I'm gonna be around this industry I mean even when I retire I got like seven more years I'll probably retire I'm in the union um so I got 25 years in the union

but I had like like I said since I was knhi my pops took me to work here bringing my tools and started as a carer

for the first 13 now I'm doing hard surface for the last probably 15 so I just and every like I got I did so much

carpet I got tired of it and then I had to get into hard surface and now I'm doing hard surface now I'm needing I'm looking for challenges so I'm doing

these things because I just want to keep keep my skills up see what I'm competing against and all that but like you said

and I wna and I want to teach too you know that's why I make my Youtube videos just to help whoever's out there to give

them some pointers on what's going you on how to install a few different well that's a great a great way to to to help

out I mean that is that this people learn from those things like we learn better today from video than we ever

have in history yeah I mean it makes sense it's been around longer but used to they thought that was an ineffective

teaching method nowadays it's very effective oh yeah all right um so give me quick y I was gonna tell him to plug

his yeah so so goad I'm the floor doctor on YouTube I'm still building up my uh I

still gotta get my Instagram and the Facebook all that going like I said I'm not very techsavvy so I have my wife and my kids kind of pushing me get on TI

kids get you so I'm just like well help me but by you know I still work all day too I do my eight hours a day still so

by the time I get home like I get little burnt out but my family were we on a boxing gym too so my father and my

brother coaching boxing so uh yeah you know we're always busy but every time I get little chance I try to that's an

unfair Advantage the way you guys crawl around oh

yeah I'm just I'm just gonna add to the boxing thing with that unfair Advantage with the callous

Knuckles Rock yeah okay so hard punch so real quick uh

how'd it go for you today how do you feel you know it started and how how you feel your standing right now I felt good

when I got going and now but you know you always step back and you look and you start you start picking yourself

apart so there's a few little things that I might want to clean up tomorrow but other than that I think I'm good on my timing uh I just tomorrow just got

work on my Riser the step so I G gives me enough time to to deal with that get that completed and then jump down to the

B the little touchup things and make sure all my lines are erased wiped down make sure everything's clean by beautify

the job which we all should do all of us installers need to stand back look at our job and and pick up those little

details that we need to clean up at the end of the day all right last question man hey are you having fun I'm enjoying

it man having a really good time I I I did the carpet one year and a half ago I came in second place so this one I'm

hoping to get first but you know like I said it's just fun to do and whether whatever I place it's fun going against the know I got tough challenge all these

guys were going against our are good skilled guys so it's nice to you know go against people who are skilled and take

their craft serious like I do awesome man well thanks for joining us best of luck in the competition thank you man

nice meeting you guys brother well guys it sounds like the

competition's going pretty well going pretty crazy we got the got the family

all right we got a family family here what's up guys my name is Paul good to meet you I'm Alan Allen nice to meet you

Paul what's your name won Weston and Allen you just put it right up here yeah

get it in there all right so you guys competed today yes sir all right what'

you compete in in the carpet division get microphone in the carpet division nice

uh so how's it starting off oh it's going good um I'm a little bit behind Pace I've got my sew part of my sewing

done the upper level's close uh my P work was pretty good um my border is

done I'm stretching in so you're on the upper level yeah I'm on the finishing that one I still have have to have some

sewing to do on my step going up to the upper level and the entire lower level still to do all right you feel good

about timing this is a timed event for everybody like this is not the the

pressure's on it's not only about doing a great job these guys are under a lot of pressure to finish on time and and in

previous competitions there's always been at least one person maybe in both categories even that

didn't quite finish everything so you have to give something up somewhere if you're behind so yeah I got a few little

issues to work through but I'm gonna think about it tonight and I'm gonna work through it tomorrow where are you

guys out of Alabama Alabama yeah are you helping are you

helping so are you g you gonna follow your dad's Footsteps in the trade yep so

I'mma I'mma follow his footsteps and I might just play football too while I'm at it there you go play football for the

school at Smith Station sweet what position defensive in all

right and who's your who's your favorite pro team pro team oh man this putting

you on the spot the Kansas City Chiefs Amen brother

so uh I know my my these are my boys uh you know Jose and Daniel are

uh from Michigan so they're Detroit fans which I root for Detroit on the NFC side

but I'm a ky Chief I'm from wiah Kansas and and uh so go

Chiefs yep all right so um what did anything take you by surprise today any

of the the anything more difficult than you thought it might be um not really

more difficult but there's just some little Nuance things that are just um need some tweaking or you you have to or

I feel like you have to do certain things before you proceed on to the next thing so I've got two or three things

going at once and trying to use my time the best I can like with latex drying

and Pad glue drying or you know just trying to take my time and do good pad

work and pattern layout and different things there's all kinds of little Nuance things that you really don't

think of and you kind of feel like you get yourself caught so you can uh work work through it or if you have a little

problem and some of that stuff you discover along the way that's right yeah you discover it along the way and you just kind of slow down just to touch

work yourself through it get you a plan of action and and just go for it and you kept all your digits no major Cuts all

right systematically that's right just systematically all the way through um I

already have a good idea how I'm gonna do it but you know with the pattern work and then the different types of carpet

there's just little Nuance things that you have to do just a touch different yeah just a little touch different

awesome well thanks for joining us today guys great um good luck on the competition good luck in football thank

you all right to meet

you you're gonna do the next uh he can I'm I'm the behind the scenes guy okay

well we'll do it this other direction doing a good job so Paul just

decided to give back because he feels bad because he's doing all the talking but I'm doing a lot of listening right now and what I'm hearing from everybody

so far is that the competition is going good um he said uh you know

systematically right approach it systematically so and I think that with having my brother in the competition and

my sister here a couple times what I heard from them and everybody else is you go in with the plan and as soon

as You' vear from that plan just a little bit it does throw you off so anybody thinking about joining next year make sure that stick to your plan adjust

quickly all right here you go what's your name my name is Hugo Hugo yes sir

nice to meet too me too my second time you've been on the

podcast competing I was like I don't remember well great to have you on

Welcome to the Huddle good to be on and so you're doing the resilience uh carpet pattern carpet okay cool yes so we're

gonna have you pull a question and we're going to do a Icebreaker so just whatever you pull you just answer the

question do I ask the question too yeah go ahead and read the question or I can read it if it's really bad uh

handwriting what booth has the best snacks okay so you probably well I

mean yeah but I don't consider it a booth but I guess yeah that that's the only one I have visited so far it's kind

of a tough question for a guy that's been installing all day all right so um

anything Tak by surprise today like once you got started they give you a drawing

right correct so you got to follow the drawing and then put that Booth together so anything take you by

surprise uh the actually the yeah the actual mockup it has a a stepping there

and uh on the plan you know it shows it you know square off straight but you know here the nosing comes out you know

a couple inches so that changes the whole game because now you know they wanted water fall so now it just that

just throws everything you know yeah so you could look at a set of drawings with a plan yeah yeah and and being a

Commercial contractor myself I look at drawings all day right this is what happens like you get a set of drawings

and you get to the site and it's just a little bit different that changes the whole plan right I mean everything looks good in paper right till you get to the

actual job site and it looks a little different I think that's the case here but but uh yeah it just makes the

competition you know even better yeah uh where you at uh Bay Area San Francisco Bay Area nice

conquer California awesome and do you work uh do you work for a company you want to plug anybody any state Contract

Flooring awesome uh yeah I've been working there for quite a bit I think they uh competed here last year too

actually it was me actually we had two it was myself and then uh the guy that won the resilient the

lvp that's right yeah but then he won and then he got out for you know another position a job so oh yeah biger well

there you go you you win the competition you get a you get an upgrade that was

James right no actually James that was on the carpet but Hassan as well yeah oh both of them yeah his old boss wanted to

claim him back you know okay all of a sudden yeah I wonder why right all right

so um tell me what was there anything

obviously the the drawing being different than the booth was a little bit of a surprise as you got into it and

you was laying did did you have any struggles did anything like go like I

don't want to say wrong but was there any adjustments you had to make as you were installing like oh that isn't going

to work or I I I got to do this a different way uh probably not in

adjustment yet uh I did uh you know uh second time myself you know on on

something that I did that uh actually noticed that uh nobody else did what I

did so that kind of make me feel like you know am I doing it wrong you know or are you doing it you the only one doing

it right or exactly so you know just you know trust the Lord say well just going

to move forward leave it as is and and and let the men men win yeah yeah are

you feeling good about the timing the timing honly I feel a little bit behind but uh I think you know uh but then

again you know every time I have competed it's been the same case where I feel behind and you know somehow you

know I just end up finishing right on time so I'm hoping that that was the case as well okay yeah all right you

look confident I wish you the best of luck and um yeah we'll have to have you back

on the Huddle again my man all right Paul thank you it's been good appreciate it by all right you guys have good

one yo so everybody it's like there's some

pressure man it sounds like everybody's running pretty tight on time they they feel confident they're going to finish

but at the same time they're like right at the end well I think

um typically at a project at a project you're not being timed by days and being

forced to take specific breaks like everything is strategic to try to replicate real life situations but not

really real life uh but you the time is ticking you do have

a window you have to get it done in if you personally feel like you're behind that's because you're competing with

yourself right like you know that you can do it like he said I started looking there was something different and I'm

second guessing myself yeah am I doing it wrong and that starts to take time and and and cause you to slow down a

little bit going forward sometimes minutes matter right brother matter amen Mr Sunny in the house so Mr Sunny's with

us thanks for joining us man what's going on be here happy to be here appreciate you guys having an event here

at Ty yeah perfect place to have it we love shooting from here it's uh it's

it's one of the most energy filled podcasts we do every year it's just like and and this year getting to interview

some of the contestants that's that's like awes great I didn't realize you were able to do that that's great yeah

so get getting to know what they're going through mentally in there because you know I mean I couldn't do it

sorry Daniel's telling you to Daniel's telling you to eat the mic uh so

so uh we got to have you pull a question and you're G to answer it this is going to be a little Icebreaker that uh right

Jose came up with that I think is a brilliant

idea I'm a Leo I like long walks on the

beach there we go okay now the question is why should I attend Ty nice is a a

fantastic question that we've all been talking about all day it's um you know

we talk about um CFI we talk about all these associations that are out there

and the reason we push them is because of the relationships you're going to build at these groups we can all have social media

relationships we can talk people on the phone but nothing beats shaking somebody's hand give them a hug talking

to them catching up about the year um so for me it's just a camaraderie I mean

everything out there is for sale I've seen right yeah maybe maybe there's some new tools here and there but I come for

the people right get to spend time with you guys and you know again you can only do so much on the phone and and and uh

on social media yeah this is like the convention Brotherhood you know what I mean like I I see you probably two maybe

three times a year and every time I see it's like I didn't miss seeing you you know what I mean like it's like I seen

you last week and that's the cool thing about the the fellowship that you create

when you're coming to the events uh again shout out to uh February 17th

through the 19th right is the summit it's in Dalton sunny and uh be you wanna

you want to tell us a little bit more about that Sunny yeah so uh it's our second annual Summit that uh unite and

and afct is putting on together uh this year we're going to have the honor of having the Huddle do a live broadcast

from the event talk about some things with the audience uh have people call in

whatever we need to do have the questions like we do but it's going to be interactive uh we tried to do it

before but we ended up uh just having a conversation at the end of the event we

didn't quite get the feedback that we wanted yeah so having you guys here and having it be interactive I think it's going to be really well and that venue

plays very well for that type of a setting I'm really excited about that because you know bringing people in and

and these ations this is what's fun this is what makes us do it like you know

what I mean and and that particular just the setting of that venue allows for an

audience to be there and ask questions and our live viewers online can ask

questions and I think that's really uh going to be a special podcast so I'm looking forward to that so I I'm looking

forward to it we when we first started planning this it was one of the first things we said we wanted to do so that's

why we're reached out to you guys and it's um to give your name well you know

that's right you did take forever but at least you said yes so that's okay so what can we look forward to at

the summit what what do you guys got um so we're we're gonna have it at the Dalton Convention Center again that's

that's where we had it last year as well but the big draw that we have for this year that I think everyone is it's worth

going just to see this person is Bob Higgins so any a lot of people know the

name Bob Higgins he is the name when it comes to concrete in our industry he is an expert uh he can talk about moisture

in concrete the ad mixes of concrete you know what really causes uh uh moisture

related failure because it's more than just moisture moving to the top yeah so I'm really looking forward to him um

usually when he's on stage I'll sit down and just listen I won't be working he's one of those guys right so we're looking

forward to that we have a lot of other speakers um we have a lot of great speakers we have some average speakers

but I'm gonna try my best um we're gonna talk about complaints versus claims

that's a real misunderstanding with contractors out there um I feel like there's somebody behind me doing

something no not quite yet okay but but I can't tell if someone's

been holding bunny ears behind me the whole time so we're we're good uh you know again we just built on the success

we had last year um got even more uh presenters in tried to squeeze a couple

of more in we have plant tours available for Monday cool um he he a plant

engineered floors a tufting company a couple other on that we're trying to get lined up so bottom line get involved and

get to Dalton that's right get involved amen so any did you get to check out the

competition like as they were going I didn't get until later you'll catch it up tomorrow okay yeah it looks pretty

intense so it sounds like from all the contestants that they're they they' ran across some challenges and some

different stuff those booths every year get hard they have curveballs and stuff

right and and so it's been interesting talking to the the contestants and the the competitors I should say um about

like some of the challenges it's been real cool so I I like to think I'm I'm a pretty good installer right my

background's installation I can train installers I can you know help them

learn how to do this I can not do that there's no way my nerves wouldn't take it I'm not built that way and I would

not enjoy that yeah I don't like it when a homeowner would stand over me uh uh watching I can't imagine that right

there oh yeah all right sunny I appreciate you sitting in with us look forward to seeing you in February and uh

as always thanks for your support with the Huddle and we will uh chat with you

soon thanks man love you guys you know I do thanks brother yep

Sunny's our homie he's our homie yeah always makes time for us no matter where we're at what we're doing Sunny's our OG

hi hi CJ how's it going good how's the show going for you hold on oh I'm so

sorry that was premature how's the show going great yeah yeah it's been a really

busy day today so you've been around this area by the com

competition kind of so what what have you been doing today um so our booth is

over here by the competition a lot of people have been coming through to see what was going on at the competition um

a lot of people coming to say hello at our booth and learn about um our

certification that FCI offers and CFI certifications it's been good good yeah

so in particular with the fcc's um certification we're talking about Sim right so Sim is certified

installation manager but it's really broader than the name implies it we've

had some guys go through it in the past and it takes it's really project management like intense project

management training uh sales training like there's all kinds of stuff so I

think the the benefit that I see because both both of us are Sims and it's just

um the the really little things that you can do and organize yourself in order

to just like properly plann yeah properly planed it's being organized and

they they just give you those little secrets that you're like I should have done that and that's worth its weight right there

like like we say even if you just have learn one thing at a certification that's worth it and just

just that one little tidbit it's more than that but that one little thing is definitely that's probably one of the

things that you know as a huddle I know a large large part of our audience is uh

our installers installers can benefit from being a Sim I I firmly believe that

when I was installing uh I wasn't good or fast because I could cut a seam faster or I

could weld faster it was all about organizing the project and setting it up right and that's some of the

organizational skills that you learn through Sam so if you're a good installer and maybe you're going to take

that next step and start your own business installing or you're going to even take the next step and become a

flooring company you know full service uh Sim training is um almost a

prerequisite to the success that it'll cut out a lot of pain and misery

so yeah yes so a good show so far and I we

talked to the competitors some of them are a little bit nervous some of them uh show a lot of confidence which we love

to see but uh a little bit of nervousness about timing and everything can you imagine the pressure those guys

are going through with I mean I looked at the walkway earlier and it was packed

it was too deep yep all the way across yeah and all those eyes watching you

yeah like a fishbowl uhuh so um I don't know what a uh a a parallel to that

would be outside of this situation but I can only imagine their nerves and uh you

know they still have to they're still trying to win this thing right yeah so what uh what's what's the best thing

going on for you guys what what's the what's the best thing you know what we haven't had her pull a question you have

to pull a question all right pull a question we'll see what you uh get and

then you got to answer it and then oh this is two questions

oh wait JK JK what's your favorite podcast the

Huddle a great question as a

rhetorical awesome well thanks for joining us and uh best luck on the rest of the show yeah thanks thanks for

having me guys all right thanks CJ all right so uh we got a little bit

of a a special guest coming in and we got just so you know got the new guy I

am it's Ralph and I I was gonna ask him how to

say it and he already told me how to say it before I even had to ask fivia FIA

fenia got it how are you awesome man thank you for Welcome to the Huddle first of

all thank you guys for what you do yeah I'm so happy to be part of this and this

is surreal yeah I've never exper I've been coming to Tha surfaces for for a long time and

to be here with my brothers it's it's awesome it's it's it's humbling so thank you but thank you guys for what you do

as well y yeah we we we love it and we love having uh insights from uh industry

leaders and speaking of that you're the new leader at CFI and um so a couple of quick

questions before we get into that you got you got chance to check out the competition what what do you

think Artistry dude they they are killing it I'm thinking how the hell

would I do that yeah I gotta watch what I say here right no no it's not PG I'd

say I'd say we're about PG-13 hey guys don't we're we're all floor guys right that's right we we we

don't watch it that close okay good good so yeah Artistry is a good way to to put

it I agree I mean it's you got to be very methodical and you got to think about what you're

doing the process how are you going to achieve what you're doing and the ones that are spending a lot of time laying

it out drawing it out they got a good shot so I'm I'm all

of them are doing an outstanding job every single one for you to be here already you're a winner if you're here

competing you're already a winner yeah I mean so if you don't know and I'm sure we've said it before on the Huddle but

like they have to go through a regional qualifier and there's there's they have to win that to get to the show and then

there's some prerequisite to even get into the regional so this isn't just come and give you know you say you're

good and give yourself uh you know show us what you can do like you're already proven in a lot of ways and so then

you're really here competing against the best of the best of all the regions absolutely this is American Idol for

flooring in my opinion you know and one of the cool things about it I I've yet to meet somebody that's not been through

industry standard training that's competed in any of these you know what I

mean like you have to build that initial Foundation of getting getting your

training and getting taking the next step getting certified and this is what CFI specializes in and now that you're

the leader of CFI you know the history uh your CFI right like your CFI

anyway um tell us a little bit about your vision just a you know whatever you

you you really want uh to accomplish what does success kind of

look like in the in the short term like what what do you want to see happen success for me is if you think about you

were an installer yep okay so a conversation when you go to a dealer and

ask for work think about that scenario you walk in there you have that conversation with the dealer someone

you've never met you're cold calling and you need work so what do you do hey I

need a job are you hiring any installers what are those qualifying questions do you have general liability do you have

workers come do you have a vehicle do you have tools why are we not asking are you a certified installer right why are

the dealer base not asking that that's something we have to change I my passion

is to change that we've got to be intentional about training and education it has to be a qualifying question from

the dealer level right so anyways I I I say that because for me CFI has a

special place in my heart because I was a carpet installer I'm second generation

my dad's a great great carpet mechanic you know we call mechanics back in the day yeah right

so but

putting food on the table we do what we do to feed our family that's what it was

so that's how I got introduced to floring I'm going to do this job it's going to put food on the table for my

family and that's how we're going to live so I didn't know there was other

opportunities until I got exposed to CFI and fortunately that was in a younger

time in my career and so weird that Dave Garden was my instructor oh yeah yeah

and now he works for me go figure so I say that but but there's a

lot to that anyone who's listening to this podcast right now if you're an installer

and you're just starting out I'm a perfect example of if you put into work

you can grow and have a successful career in flooring no matter where you are there's opportunity there see if I

open my eyes to that opportunity because it wasn't just about Craftsman yes I can

do a lot of things I'm very good with my hands I have the skill set what I didn't

have at that time was the professionalism the business the network

the context all these things you get from CFI that I got and it changed my

mindset and I grew and I became successful that was that pivoting point in my career and that and success can

look like getting into maybe a different vertical maybe not like on your knees

installing every day we all three of us well all of us here in this podcast the

moment installed like I started laying carpet out of high

school we still sometimes install but um you know and then we

grew uh all of us have our our paths that we went to the different levels you

know I always say I started as an employee installer then I started subbing and now I employ

you know 12 in-house employee installers and work somewhere around 60 to 70 Subs

so like we've seen all these different uh progressions of the industry and I

didn't have to do this I mean I could be a cells rep I mean you know your career path is different so what I don't want

to ever portray to installers that like you this is a gateway to get to

something else because I also love in installing and I I could see myself

being an installer my entire life and being happy doing it at the same time as

doors open if you really leverage what you were just talking about in

professionalism and that that part of it doors open and you see those professional Pathways that can lead you

to other ways if you don't want to install so I always love to double down on professionalism attitude punctuality

dependability and then also exceptional quality those are the five metrics we

track in go Carrera in our skill score and that is um also the best way for you

to keep your eyes open for opportunity that may pop up in the future want say I

paid a lot of installers a lot of money when I had my work room so being an installer is very lucrative so I've made

a ton of money installing floors so don't want what you guys do is amazing

but it's a lot of work it's hard work and I just don't want to be on my knees anymore yeah disres to who does but look

more power to you you can make a lot of it's very beneficial to be an installer

right now especially if you're trained and you're educated the demand is out there for

that yeah and one of the points I want to make quickly is that um you may not

want to be on your knees anymore but your passion is to make the guys that are still wanting to do that we need to

all of us who have decided to take the another path or something what are we doing here right we're dedicated to

making their lives better like we talk about that all the time on the Huddle H

how do we improve the installers standard of living how do we improve their life and a lot of that is

education and and getting them tied into the industry and getting the pride back

and getting that pay where it needs to be and and U you know that's what we're passionate about I know CFI is

passionate about it and and I can see the passion with you and I I hope that that you guys continue on on CFI when

you guys are planning things that that that that installer standard of living is always at the top front of mine you

know what I mean we're so I hear a lot in we need to stay install our Centric

everything we do is surrounded all the decisions made are around how does this impact the

installer Community yeah because that's our base that's our true basee that's our fundamentals and those if you think

about a tree those are Our Roots those are our foundation and when we make decisions we need to measure how does

this impact our base and I will fight for the installers and I want them I

want to show them and give them opportunities for growth however way they want it so yeah and it's all

responsibility to do that one of our taglines at go Carrera is what's good for the installers is good for the

industry and I believe that so you guys been sitting over there

quiet we've just been over here talking what Jose you got any oh yeah Ralph we

gotta have you pull a question okay can can I say Just One Last Thing Before absolutely so yeah or three or

four Innovation Innovation is something I I'm passionate about um especially

working with manufacturing and my involvement there I wish that we would when we're thinking

about in Innovative products from a manufacturer standpoint and let's involve the installation community on

the front of that Innovation let us be supportive to what you're doing because

a lot of times we're creating things and we're not really vetting that through the people that are actually putting those floors down if we do that on the

front side it can be a very good experience for the installer so I challenged the manufacturers think about

that partner with CFI to let us be a voice of reason or or give you feedback

on how something is put down before and we can sign ndas right we can right but

we can do that and I think we'll go to market with better products that the installers are going to enjoy installing

so I want to touch on a point and have you also comment on it but what's the best projects we do is

when the architect and the designer get us flooring guys involved early on to make sure the right products are in the

right area and we can help them specify the right products and it's not just picked off of design and that's really

what you're talking about right isn't that so a lot of like what I'm comparing that

to is is the drag and drop right like they they have their template they have the the manufacturers that they want to

work with and they have they have their system already planned out they they click they drag they drop and it might

not always be the right product for the right place you know we as installers know what's going to perform what isn't

going to perform we're the ones that come and remove it when it doesn't perform we're the ones that forar

everyone like all right I know you have this material specified in this area but

this is what may happen right there's no guarantees that it's going to fail there's no guarantees it's going to succeed but this is what may happen and

this is why it may fail in Michigan but it it may hold up in California you got

a lot better chance that you get the in installation involved in the early side like what

you're talking about getting the installation professional inst involved on the early

side I'm gonna give him the mic back too and the Prof getting installer involved early on is what he said and he's right

when when there is no um when the architect designer aren't so

so prideful and and they ask the questions up front because they know that they don't know the answer or they

know that there is a shake outcome as the installer like we want our we want our flooring to succeed we want it to

last there's no sense in US installing something for it to fail it makes us look bad it makes the industry look bad

next thing you know the manufacturer looks bad and now they're cut from that that program and they're moving on to the next manufacturer yeah yeah I just

wanted to mention that because we some of our best projects our most successful longest lasting most happy customers

when we get involved early and I love that thought for CFI getting involved early in the manufacturing process yeah

we could we could definitely be a resource there and we can better the industry and go to market with better products that more are more installer

friendly right so those are things that we have to put we have to be intentional about that and we're here to support

that cost so awesome question time he PG or what I

I'm not sure man I to be honest with you man we had uh some six six-year-olds

writing questions and Jose writing questions so we're not even sure what's on there all right so how do you get

your latest flooring news the Huddle baby that's a great answer that was a

good setup but uh I want to I want to give a shout out to flooring specialist

uh Pro installer magazine all these um these uh magazines and Publications you

can pick these up at your Distributors the CFI has a lot to do with these

things and a lot of the great information that is produced from that is a great way to uh get it and of

course the Huddle baby Ral thanks so much man I'm I'm so glad that we uh got to kind of chat and

get to know each other a little bit you guys get tired of me no we don't never get tired of hey if you're a flooring

guy you're gonna love heck yeah uh you're gonna just love us because at the end of the day dude we get together we

rap about not only the issues but we're going to throw some controversial stuff

out there about how we see things happening and we like to push back we like to me you can't sharpen a blade

without friction and so we need to have some a little more friction in the industry that doesn't mean that doesn't

mean arguing or infighting any of that crap I'm talking about just some friction like hey here's an idea here's

a here's a Here's my thought and then somebody else posing their thought right and I think that's what the Huddle does

more than anyone else does is we ask you guys out there hey what do you think about this hey what's going on in your

installation career what are you seeing out there yeah and then bring that back to us and ask us questions so that way

it's not just us out here saying hey this is the best way to do things because sometimes the way we do things

isn't your best way yeah so it's Boot and a butterflying flash cove

right it's what are you going to do but no absolutely man I I we we appreciate you coming out and and joining us and uh

we look forward to the next one because we we kind of want to get a little bit in depth on on you yes so we're GNA have

Ralph on for a full in- depth about you know your past career all that kind of

stuff so but I want to end this with what are you excited about right now at

the show uh and how's the show going for you personally show is um Show's been

great I mean this this right here is a slam dunk and I mean you guys were here earlier you

saw the amount of people on this catwalk just dude it was too deep all the way

across it's it was insane right I couldn't even get up there it's like what's going on and that's and that's

great because you know what people are starting to pay attention to the installers right they're getting the

love that they deserve right so I love that and I love to be part of it and we need to do more of that right so we just

need to be a little bit more intentional about our regional events like I wish like next we should have already had

that schedule put out my my head's spinning with these ideas of things we got to do better right and you can

always do better the day you say you got it all figured out you don't know nothing yeah yeah so so anyways but the

but the it's very humbling to see that the volunteers the brothers the brotherly

good of CFI and there's people that are vested in CFI yeah they love CFI it's

kind of like a cult coming together and making it happen it's like it's like a but I love being part of it and um and

they're going to challenge me those folks that are that bed CFI they're going to hold me accountable and that I

promise you I I this isn't the um you know not to bring up anything negative

but it's not the first time we've interviewed the new guy at CFI so to be honest with you we're rooting I'm

personally rooting for you as a board member on The Advisory Board uh and just

as a lover of uh installation and this this world and education and just

learning uh I'm rooting for you I think you got a bright future with CFI and you

do feel like the the great great all right read it you might have to repeat it it's when

will there be an advanced lvt certification when will there be an advanced lvt certification Dave where's

Dave you know one I think this this is what ended up uh POS posing the uh uh

the commercial the advanced commercial certification so yeah guys look hey hey

Dave get over here Dave come join us for a second just so that just so the audience knows guys I'm in this two

weeks okay yeah be patient with me but we're gonna get you Dave Garden here come on get in here

Dave come on in [Laughter] Dave between the couches and you guys

all everybody Dave the question was when will there be an advanced lvt certification well we

have the drawing we have the drawing for it okay that's all set all right um when

you say drawing you mean like the framework for it we have the frame it's all set but it's not all set it needs to

be flushed out so first first we have we have um U the module set we have the the

the problem that we have with it is it's not a traveling show because because you can't do that you can't do an advanced

certification like that in a in a you're just sitting in a warehouse because the

the the amount of buildout for the module itself so is this something you

envision would happen in like in Dalton at the facility yes I Envision it in

Dalton because that's that's where we can build a module that that would be more of a permanent type thing now

because when you think about it the wood for that alone you're looking at you know $0000 worth of wood just to build a

module so if I come into your warehouse and say hey let's do this now you've got

to do eight guys and then you times that 800 by eight that's that's such an

investment for a for a distributor or that it almost yeah it sounds like it's

better served to be in a a central location so that was an audience

question so I just wanted to do you have a do you have somewhat of a we do we're

live we are live Dave you're live Dave I'll go

teach what's he gonna teach he'll go teach the LBT high for you he's gonna

well Crystal better show him how so do you do you see this as a 2025

thing or is this like it's within iment here's what I see fourth

quarter this year we we're going to do we're GNA do the master to again right because we want to do that every other

year but it has to be after our convention because we have to be able to give out the written test so what I

Envision is doing at the same time in advanced lvt because then then you can when you mix the two now now you've got

a nice Gathering and we do that right in Dalton where we have all the support from those manufacturers that we

actually would like these guys to go through that level we want to see those guys get introduced to the you know that

the the the guys from Shaw the guys from engineered and the guys from why not yeah that's a great that's a great like

side part of of the certific I mean you're right there in Dalton you got all these new connections you can make as a

new certified especially if you're getting a you know a higher level

certification well you guys know we love Jeremy right guys I really I was really

disappointed when he couldn't make our or Regional because I I think he would

have been oh yeah did you hit that softball

no you paid somebody though didn't

you no Jeremy's Jeremy's got a lot of Personality right yeah so you know a guy

like me I'm attracted to those guys yeah um but you know it's it's like most

of us you you look at our installers man we live bigger than we are right we

because we we got all these ideas in our head man we got all these well you can see the ideas playing out right out there at the competition man that's been

phenomenal to watch These Guys these guys this this these modules this

year we were a little bit worried that there would be a little too tough but I'm telling you they they they can be

done in the time actually and that the modules are tougher than they've ever been before well I'll tell you a little

let me let me give you some some feedback from the comp the competitors most of them

are uh confident but like hair their chin finishing is what they feel oh good

so that's a good to me to me that that that shows that it's the you got the uh

as the uh modules are getting tougher and you're getting higher level each

each year it seems like it just goes up and up and up and now you get a think

this easy they're in a fishbowl they are a fishbowl and the guys that have competed in the past will tell

you we've had a lot of talent here we've had a lot of talent here and we've grown

the installers have grown at the way the all those installers that have done this

they're part of that building block that has made this what this is you know you have to think about this the first year

when when you won we we struggled right but the the you turned it a fantastic

box you know was it your module was was I it was darn near perfect and that me

that means something right and when that the carpet that year when it was all over the place but the guy who won it

really deserved to win it and heck we had to tell Chris he couldn't compete

anymore because but he but he's his skill level's that good yeah so now we got the rest of them that have and who's

the other one Scott zto was the same way I me those guys

did I like to say this because we all like to say we're the best installer in the world I got all the credentials they

have all the skill all right it's it's absolutely true

fantastic yeah absolutely fantastic well it's been fun to watch today and getting

the feedback from the competitors has been it's been insightful to see you know they they're struggling a bit they

they've got some some challenges ahead of them they all recognize but they all want to win this thing so that's that's

fun to talk to him and and see that fire going yeah it's not an evil Grim when we come up these plants

fun well it should be an exciting day tomorrow watching them I know that might sound funny if you've never been to Ty

you got to get here I'm telling you and just we're not lying this this walkway behind behind us there is um a good 65

foot probably in total and it was too deep people watching the installation earlier today

for a good couple hours so like it's it's incredible to watch an artisan work

earlier when you said Artisan you know when you see these people doing their craft at this level it's fun to watch

and uh I I can't imagine their nerves I mentioned that to CJ earlier I was like can you imagine being down there like I

didn't like the hell you know uh Daniel's um term the helicopter client

you know that they're just watching you couldn't stand that when I installed I couldn't stand it but uh to

be in a fishbowl like that and um being judged on every move you make and then

having to come out with a high quality product at the end of it it's it's

pretty special so I'm I'm blessed to be here and happy that you guys could join us and look and guys thank da thank you

for all you do here man like this just we look our team at CFI here

like thank you Dave I'm he's making me look good here this guy here so yeah

Dave not just Jen and John like the whole team I'm I'm very proud to be your

leader so thank you well we're glad to have one yeah heyen well I I do know you

put in a heck of a lot of work to to prep everything and get it ready I know the competitors you know appreciate a

sturdy wall to power stretch I seen him pushing it earlier and uh so you know just like Ralph said

you know you guys put in a ton of work I know you said you were here late yesterday just finishing this stuff up

so you know there's a lot of work that goes into all this Don ster Don St he

was you know it's yeah Ray nap Kelly hudon you know without those guys none

of this happens all right none of this happens and yesterday jimy Salis comes by and I'm going to start dropping all

the names because you know these guys that's what makes this work yeah all right not not the guy that comes up with

a drawing yeah no but it it it it takes all of it and and that drawing is

important because that was one of the complications that came up with one of the guys you know the drawing showed one

thing just a little bit off on a stair and I was like isn't that just the the way that drawings are it's just like

it's it's what we run into as an installer all every single time as you get this beautiful drawing you get out

to the field something just a little different than that that changes the whole game plan so that's his part of it

that's right that's part of it though so all right you uh you excited for the the

rest of this uh show and oh man today we had 70,000 people I think on the catwalk

and at the same time yeah it's only 65 ft so that was great no of course I am yeah of course I

am the thing about is this show is huge right yeah and it really is and if you are here you don't get a chance to walk

it that tool alley now granted I'm an installer so if I was a retailer what

would I want to do I'd want to go to Mohawk and Shaw but I'm telling you right now if you guys install anything you don't hit that tool alley and go oh

jeez yeah between Roberts tracks gun loock man those guys got it cooking know

it's uh great great stuff I got excited just seeing a new demo machine over there that I've never seen I thought

that was something special so yeah I know what you're talking about a bunch of CFI comments coming in right all

right what you got no it's just they're saying just we are CFI yeah CFI and that's CI be

cry because I tell I tell you what man that's that's what we're all about and and CFI you guys all know my CFI story

without CFI I would never have been able to get as far as I did with the company that that Kath and I that Kath and I

worked all those years and uh those those I I tell you the lessons that you learn and not just not just with your

hands but when you come to Convention you learn how to be a professional person yeah that was mentioned earlier

and it is it is it is it made it made a world of difference to me because let's face it man I was an installer who liked

my beer yeah right some somebody had to make me grow up right for for me it was

actually a kid but having a child but uh CFI CFI without cfi's mentor ship the

mentorship I got from the the Walkers and from the last I'll go on with another d drop thing but uh that that

all happen at CFI uh oh or hey all right Dave you got we're gonna start winding

this down but you got to answer a question where're the lights are they're they're literally trying to kick us out

but hey the Huddle doesn't quit baby okay

is what's this say the industry involvement important oh absolutely

absolutely I thought this said the Michigan Wolverines were number one but all right so there industry

involvement important absolutely man as much involvement as we can get guys we

we lift each other right I don't I don't want to get biblical on you because you know all the preach preacher but uh God

put us here to lift each other up all right I'm here and on this couch at this

time for a reason just as you are God put us here to do that right and so as we as as we sit here and anybody anybody

in our industry if we walk away from that part of our mission in our daily lives we're failing ourselves and we're

failing our industry all right and that goes for everybody whether they're sweeping the floors at Mohawk or whether

they run the run run Shaw you know it doesn't matter who you are you're here

to lift up your co-workers you're here to lift up the other parts of the industry so as industry involvement

important without industry involvement there's no reason there's no reason for any of us well I I think that question

comes so often because the huddles we we really tried to get as many installers

as we can to get to Convention to different trade shows to get to you know

uh Tai and CFI fci's convention and we we want people to plug in because we

just think there's something special about plugging into the industry getting around a Brotherhood of people that want

to lift you up to become better I mean this dude right here Jorge is a prime

example answering a question yeah yeah Jorge is a prime prime example of whatting to pull people up all right

Jorge last

questions here's the thing you gotta watch what product you use guys one time

all right guys so we're as we're getting ready to close this out I want to thank our audience I I thinked all of our

sponsors earlier but you guys are what makes this thing go keep your comments

coming if you like the podcast if you don't like the podcast we don't care

give us a up or a down on any of the platforms make a comment let us know what we're doing good let us know what

we're doing right if I talk too much just let me know and then let us know what we're doing wrong

give us some suggestions all right Jorge's up selecting oh oh man oh sorry

I the benefit of getting the last question all right uh so it's what is your favorite podcast and oh my God we

tossed that in there twice we put it in twice and anyone here you H to me they got cut

off is anyone here you hope to meet is there here that you hope to meet uh yeah

you know what I was uh I was really uh interested in meeting the guys that are competing from the UK uh I know those

guys are are are doing good stuff out there and uh it can only Inspire some of

us to do some of that work because there's a lot of that stuff that we don't tend to do out here uh so I'm

really inspired by meeting some guys as well we are way better than they are shout out to hold up shout out to our

our UK podcast uh family you know Tom and Sarah

uh but yeah you know at some point uh I was very interested in meeting him I had never met him and I'm glad I met him

because uh he comes out on a bunch of stuff with a bunch of different tools so uh I know that it was a it was somebody

I wanted to shake you know shake his hand and and just give him my name we talked to uh the UK flooring podcast is

few months back about these guys as they were coming in and and uh they said they're they're I think it was Tom that

was saying yeah they're good so sounds like uh sounds like he uh stood true to his word and and we got some good

competitors up there from across the pond so it's been great guys thanks everybody for joining us thanks as

always for yeah thank Daniel Jose thank you guys for coming Jorge thanks for

being here Ralph it's awesome to finally meet you thanks guys gentlemen

thank got yeah don't want Dave to fall again

all

right so just let us know if you ever need anything reach out to us we have our own personal emails uh and I don't

have my email info right now because I forgot it's. te jge the huddle. team make sure

if you have any questions send them over my way Spanish and English whatever it

is okay Portuguese Portugues awesome thank you so much make sure if

you want to watch this or be on with Jorge that you actually reach out to him

because man we we love guests so all right guys we're out