The Huddle - Episode 32 - What can Manufacturers and Distributors do in 2023?
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose have special guest Jake Stefan from Shaw Contract and discuss different ways manufacturers and distributors can positively impact the installation community in the coming year.
We also would like to congratulate again our winner for the 2023 Forward Progress Scholarship, Carissa Parr.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
week on Tuesdays at three o'clock to discuss maintaining Forward progress in
your flooring career this week uh is a extension of last week
and part of a series now so we figured at the beginning of the year we'll
discuss what can we do this year that will make some meaningful change in the industry
and so this week we're talking manufacturers and distributors and we have a guest today Jake with uh
Shaw right yep I got that right yep which show contract thanks for having me Paul
well welcome we're glad that you uh were able to join us today and as usual we
have the two Mainstays of Daniel and Jose for her going out of Michigan uh thank you guys
for once again being on and contributing and and uh just being real
leaders in the industry so awesome bro thanks for having us again you know it awesome
well this week I pulled a Jose anybody who joins our our podcast every week knows it Jose is usually in the truck
going somewhere uh it's my turn so
um that being said we're gonna kind of discuss some ideas that
manufacturers um you know that we fill from uh you know just a quick background most you
know that I own a floor covering company out of Wichita and I'm also founder of
go Carrera um there's a lot of
things over the 20 plus years that I've been in the industry that has changed
with manufacturers uh as it applies to training and really how it applies to the
installation Community uh Jose and Daniel have been installers for how many
years gentlemen 20 something yeah 20 20 something and
they know they're uh they don't have a flooring company called preferred fluorine for the last several years
and um I'm sure they have some insight here too so the first piece that I'll bring
up or that that was on my list is what manufacturers not use
certifications anymore and uh I know there's some liability and
stuff that came about but true certifications and
um of the past seem to be pretty much
um you know pass down to your training entities like CFI and such so
um I guess whoever wants to chime in on that question
so I'll chime in with what I was told before Jake does I know that he's uh the manufacturer with the with Shaw but
um and this is all speculation this is what I've heard through conversations with uh
Tech reps uh is because of the liability that that they
were um acquiring right like when they certify as a manufacturer or do the
training for certification they were um assuming responsibility for that
particular installer or that company and if there were any failures then it was coming back on their training program or
this is what we learned or you certified them and I think that that's where where some of the uh
the issues were coming about and and so they changed the literature a little bit change the the way they were approaching
it um and I get it you don't want to adopt somebody else's negligence right and by
certifying somebody um as a manufacturer you are essentially doing okay you're pretty much assuming the liability right because it's like
yeah they came through they're certified they're approved to go on your job and then if they start doing something wrong
then the customer can be like you sent these guys to me like you said that they had to be certified and they are now up
mm-hmm it's similar to like I mean uh
the automotive industry my my cousins high up with Ford and
they call it Ford factory training and ASD certified will get a
certification a third party um Ford standpoint is Factory trained
yeah right the same thing with when you look at protect all the manufacturer the when we went through that I mean this
had been 10 years ago now when we went through that and it was not a certification it was a factory training
yeah they're just giving you they're educating you on their product and limitations
and then uh what do you got to add to the object yeah oh what was that Paul
yeah I just going I was just gonna say quickly some manufacturers still trained
I mean uh or verify or at least the last time I checked like Nora do
they still get a certification Nora still gives certifications but when I went through there if you're
they require you to actually make a visit back every three years unless one
of the tech reps comes to visit you and sees your work on a project so that actually happened to us so I am Nora
certified and the tech rep when we were on a project actually came out and like watched this
work ask me questions got down and and you know actually seen how we were
putting it in when when the adhesive was spread and stuff like that yeah that's something that I was gonna as far as
certification I know I don't know if Shaw has done it in the past but I know there our trainings
offered or we can have our Tech Team out in the field if there are specific projects that you are working on that
need that kind of oversight or Technical Training
um it's for certification it does come out of a liability uh because you have a paper your training bills are off it
doesn't mean that you're going to do how you did in the actual training certification out in the field so I
think that's what it comes down to but if there's ever an instance where you need oversight or a help in a training
that's something that we could offer by getting somebody down at the Mill whether it's a complicated installer
installed that it's just an added feature that we can assist with
so with that that's on a project by project basis do you guys uh log that
anywhere I think the missing piece is that we we've stripped installers now I
understand the liability piece but we've kind of stripped installers from having ways outside of go career and of course
I'd love every installer to be on go career at the end of the day we've
somewhat stripped installers of the ability to prove their their skills and
their training and their dedication to the craft outside of go Carrera
um they can't show a certificate unless it's you don't mean
um they don't have a way to prove their their um
expertise yeah you know what I mean himself from other installers
or else right and correct me if I'm wrong unless it's just word for mouth that hey these guys do a great job
they're they're trustworthy they'll put it down they'll do it correctly file a protocol are there other certifications
out there outside the Nora that you talked about Jose uh yeah there's there's plenty of
education programs out there for for every Silo in the flooring industry
um you know CFI runs a a general run any fct runs uh resilient and then they're
also doing subfloor subform prep um uh CTI
great training what
what you know who Shaw contract is they know who you know Mohawk and Millikan they
know those names so they don't know that and they they don't know the different
levels so you can say your CFI train you know certified
won't be doing a C2 type project you know what I mean you're you're
absolutely right about that there is no um there's no template that says that you
know hey this is this is my card this tells you where I'm at as far as my expertise and my level there's nothing
like that you throw a name out there and you can say whatever you want after you throw
um a training point there's no manuf that I think what I was
getting at was there's no there there's no clout to it that's what go career is trying to do or is doing is you know
giving a metric to be able to be utilized by ingesting all of the training and then providing the hammer
rating but at the end of the day the void of manufacturer training I
guess I I'm a little curious on standardized training calling it Factory
trained or factory whatever and still logging that that installer completed
that training when you go out to projects and you help them through a project that's that's helping them
through a project but it's not you know our goal is how do you uh
significantly improve the installer's life their their standard of living and
they don't get that you know just because a manufacturer came out to a
project and yeah the project went well but they don't get to carry that forward to other to the rest of their working
career um you know you don't get to say that yeah I was trained by Shaw or I was
trained by Mohawk or whoever right and show a contract such a great company a
large company that um is there any standardized training
Jake to your knowledge where installers could go to a shop facility or a shop
supported facility and get off the job off the project I should say training
not to my knowledge but I'm sure it's something that we could do I don't know if it would be so much as a
certification um there definitely is an opportunity and local rdc's when I was down in
Chicago in the Chicago Market we had one outside of the city where we had
specific installers come in for sheet vinyl training but it's just training
itself it's not so much a certification so I could definitely follow up with the technical team in the mill to see if
that's something where that'd be of interest in local markets to get a group
of installers out there for say it's heat welding or say it's any type of installation and then have a shawback
program for training I just personally haven't done anything to my knowledge on it yeah and it
doesn't necessarily be a certification I wouldn't think just a factory Train That's How Ford got through it uh you
know even the training can be recognized and and just a little background as well
like uh the hammer agency he's talking about for gold Carrera what it is is it it gives the installer a rating it for
their their skill set and okay I don't know like how many trainings are actually recognized and if it adds to a
hammer rating Paul um and I'm I'm sure that you've you're factoring a lot of training and education programs in there too for the
hammering about everything even even after this workshops uh like in the Tile
World they have uh you know the npca afternoon Workshops the different
distributors even those are recognized it doesn't give you a bunch of hammer obviously your staff is pretty much so
recognize that there's still 100 other installers that didn't go to it and you
still did and you still participated and you still probably learned something and
so as long as that training is uh cat is uh cataloged I mean the empathy that did
the training saves the fact that say Daniel did a
one-day Workshop right that we we recognized all the two-day workouts for
Schluter a two-day workshop you know um
and like I said just afternoon workshops in PCA even and each one has a different
weight inside of our algorithm so it gives different uh amounts of hammer
based on the years of experience that you have in a ton of other factors so it's hard to say that this training
equals that amount of weight because it depends on your previous training as well as your
um you know years of experience and work history but if the training that you're talking of
Jake is possible to get um set up where
and industry-wide right there's we have a huge need in the industry to get
trained so I'm not even saying one manufacturer can solve it all but if the manufacturers had a factory training
that they logged when the installer goes and you can fill out a questionnaire that
says you know what type of training it was uh how many hours the Hands-On how many hours of
uh book study tests all that stuff and you just fill out the questionnaire as
long as like for go careers purposes as long as your career can go and verify and prove
that that scholar took training they get to get that that value added to their him already
and they carry that training forward it's a way to incentivize installers to
to especially independent installers that are not under our company sales not
employee installers to go get trained spend the money and the time off to get
trained because it means you know more more work orders and more pay down the
road for them and um the training yourself Jake might not hold weight alone because it's just
quite as in training with a certification in that same field
and now all of a sudden now that that holds more weight so you're taking this glob of of certification let's just call
it like let's say C1 or C2 or something like that from cf5 just use that right but now I'm adding on to that now I have
this now I have the formal Technical Training and the science behind everything now I also have you know
Shaw's training for for their carpet and their bankings and what they have and that's exactly add more weight to that
uh initial certification um that that installer has devoted their time to yeah I mean think about just
just as adding tools to a tool belt right it batters their their personal skills
their training skills their installation skills and then it also helps us out
when our materials do go down of we want it to go on correctly and get that train
training so that we don't have issues in the back end it helps everybody out in
the in the overall sense you know and a lot of like what Patrick when I know you
had said something before we started record but you know um like our relationship with Patrick didn't start as a a sales relationship it started as
an installer talking to the sales rep trying to figure out the problems and making some decisions from an installer
standpoint exactly hey how'd you guys fix that how'd you guys know about that um and
are you talking to Daniel like he's like oh you guys really do good work you know
what you're talking about know what you're doing yeah and uh it helps us out from the manufacturer's perspective even
though I'm a manufacturer's rep but if they can add anything to my tool belt of hey I can talk through a higher maybe
not as high a level as an installer but if I can get some basic knowledge of the actual install as it's going down it
helps out all all sides of the part of the group you know right and then it
also helps uh with material that you're getting respect right like
well I think I'm gonna jump I want to say thank you for bringing that up Jose
the fact is that say you're C2 you said and they get a shot you know Factory training it's like a booster to your
other certification that you already got it's like it adds fuel to the Hammer
rating fire so to speak and so it's more value if you're already certified then you go to a shop Factory uh training if
the weight is heavier uh because of the foundation your ability
that I don't want to get real nerdy on the algorithm that creates the skill score because it's very complex but
essentially what you said is correct and now one other point to or one other
benefit is that you know as an installer going through and uh they may be C2
certified but one of the problems that I've found in the commercial uh Floor
Covering industry is the backings changing and the you know recycled
backings and then getting rid of PVC and then adding PGC back in and then some bland and you know how many backing
changes has the industry had in the last 10 years you're not getting that on a certification you're getting that from
the mill when you guys change your backing I had a 2 000 yard job fail because one of our installers and I will
not name the um the mill but they had a new vacuum
system that required certain price and it'll tell you the processor but surfaces
and those processes were not followed to the seat while the installer had no idea
uh heck even our PM was uh somewhat are you talking about because you had to
prime before you spread the adhesive I saying anything Daniel I'm not saying
stuff you see what he's trying to do there yet but
is and the mill helps us out good behind and you know but the fact is that
failure never had to happen with proper training the failure never had to happen and with over three billion dollars in
failures annually in the flooring industry if you include moisture failures
could we not at the industry as an advocate for installers find a way that
you have that how much how much better is our industry by having the
the failure most likely it's a silver million dollar
deduction from failures right so so I hope that manufacturers this year
really focus on the installer and and form some training don't call it certification let's just call it Factory
or uh Factory informed I don't care how loose this is it as long as the training
is really valuable and you can and people and
people can check to make sure
that's a that's a step in the right direction so we just had the the Taylor
you're breaking up a little bit Paul so we just we just had the Taylor rep in
here um right before we got on here right and he actually just told us that
it received by a certified you would actually get a lifetime warranty when you use their pieces in your projects as
opposed to their 10 or 15 year whatever comes standard right no that's that's installation
but how how can we get with the manufacturers and actually
have them put in their documentation if we have If We Hold certain certifications then
um even our labor warranty is extended on
top of the manufacturer's warranty on some stuff where it's instead of a 10-year warrant you get a 15 year teen
year you get a 20 years backed by not only the manufacturer but the
organization organization you're certified from so that way they can actually see the value that they're
getting as opposed to just hiring someone off the street and hoping that they get a warranty at some point
yeah I I
think that the extended warranty on labor in particular
you know we're we're working on one thing that I think you know we'll be
chatting on this offline but basically once you reach a certain Hammer ready uh
we're working with insurance companies to provide uh the same labor warranty
that like installed us which will give the uh
like a five-year or ten year labor warranty if you're if you're three
hammers are above as a failed piece to the installer for
when they're they're out there you know selling their services but from a manufacturer to stand behind
it what did you think about that Jake yeah again it's if you can add more to
it I don't know how it would work with but you're giving me homework and get the technical team and warranties I I
don't know how that would work along with the set warranties that we have in place but if they do go hand in hand I
don't see an issue but again don't don't shoot the messenger but I can bring it up up the totem pole and exactly see how
that would work though of how can you get that extended warranty if you have a separate certification
I just I don't know personally how that would work without going up the ladder
yeah it's all a process right it has to start some it starts with everything starts with an idea that's that's exactly all we're doing right now is
we're spending on how can the manufacturers and Distributors help oh you know one of our Distributors just
brought the Taylor rep in here to talk about their their products and just doing stuff like that is really
beneficial because they have some products that um we didn't know about right so it's all about you know just just making your
rounds and as a as a salesperson I know how busy you are because I know how much I email you per day
but it's all good I can only imagine what your inbox looks like game but but
also you gotta think it's not only and it just comes out to the whole overarchy thought on this is it's nothing but
beneficial for you for us for installers for everybody so if we can team up and
start this idea and Spark it and ignite it and then something turns out from it
that's that's kind of nothing's gonna get done unless you have conversations like this around it you know whether
it's I'm boots on the ground up here in Michigan but I bring it to a VP who covers the Midwest that BP then covers
it to a divisional and then it goes from there starts like wildfire but like I said you guys got me
homework now I'll I'll follow up get with the technical team and get with other
people up in upper management on it to see exactly what can be done with that
and then like last week we had Uh Kevin in here from Roberts and he's on
Facebook right now and said did I ask the Taylor up his warranty we'll supersede the flooring warranty if it
doesn't it won't matter much and you know that that's another thing too it's
you can see these these manufacturers actually going to
to places and and spreading the knowledge that they have right and that's that's a wonderful thing I
love it and if you look at it so we've we've talked um with the nafct about how
and that's the National Association of Floor Covering technicians if you if you
didn't know um we've talked about before how these
manufacturers are dropping their certifications and how you know that that liability but it's about getting
these other training entities and actually saying all right your guys's training holds its
weight in gold um how can we partner with you because just speaking about resilient she Goods
right sheet vinyl um you can use the knowledge from learning one product
and kind of translate that over to all the other products
so to have just every manufacturer doing their own thing
doesn't necessarily make sense anymore but getting these manufacturers to
actually back these uh different organizations is something else and that's something that I don't have to
deal with but it's something that I want to talk about right because if we can have all these manufacturers back in
backing us up that that just makes us more powerful well and I I wanna that's one of the
reasons that Taylor does that is because they're so closely aligned with CFI
so they you know if others could the
line and I don't know all the Dynamics in the background of the training entities with managers but
we're all you know it's like the industry's working on um you know bringing in more people and
bringing in more people and I support that but something you said in a
conversation earlier today Daniel is that it's been brought up by multiple
people and probably agreed upon is that we have plenty of installers we're
lacking quality we're lacking uh first off a way to verify or know that they
their quality outworking them and then finding out they're not on a job
so that's kind of where we're trying to build plenty of guys that are working uh
but we're really lacking those quality uh installers right
you said that earlier did you yep yeah it's a we have a surplus of installers
it's just not not many of us are are qualified to the standard that we need to be in the
industry and that if you look at it from a whole
um just on the commercial side there's so much science that goes behind the adhesive the products that you have to
know and then you pair that with actually having to know the science behind what you're installing on so if you're installing on wood what kind of
wood is it if you're installing on concrete are there any additives in it
are there any is there anything topical on it what do you have to do if there if there's something on there
so it's there's so much that goes behind it
and there's so many people that are in it and and the stores that are selling these
jobs that that's what the the sales men are there for they're there to sell and then
they worry about the installation afterwards because like I said I'll go on these these um dealer groups and
stuff and that's what they say it's it's sell sell worry about whatever later as long as you get that stuff nothing's
mattering no no you know don't let me take away from that but I want to ask you a question here Jake
how much of product knowledge are you as a sales rep um in the area what is the requirement
of product knowledge on your behalf um um as a sales rep versus a tech rep I
know Tech is more technical but I'm just curious like what is required of you
um to maintain and and how do you promote uh the knowledge of the product make sure that
the installer isn't set up for failure or or the company that you are helping
select a product isn't set up for failure yeah so what's unique so I came
out which I'm out of college I went I lived Georgia first three and a half
months so I went through the shot training program where it was all product knowledge again it does come
down like you said just we know so much about the products and where they go but once we get it out there we get the
specification we need to back it with we need to make sure it's the correct installation so we have all this product
knowledge and product training having the tech team as support I think
we I guess all manufacturers could put a little more emphasis on Technical
Training and installation training because right now as we re we rely on our installers for that knowledge to
pair up with the product knowledge right so as myself being a product specialist
for Shaw contract I would rely on my installers then for
that installation specialist so it's got to be the give and take of we can't expect all of our installers to know our
product in and out just as I I don't know the installation in and
out and that's where I need to rely on installation or my installers for that but like you said if there's the
training that I was offered was mostly product minimal installation what we could do is get that flip-flop
of we try to install or we tried to help out with the acknowledge for ourselves
if I could get help on the installation knowledge it just matters everybody's
chances for Less failures better installs better product better projects
being installed and just happier customers overall so a greater
percentage of success equals a greater percentage of Word of Mouth business which turns into exactly
it creates it creates Word of Mouth for everybody everybody's happy in the long run and you don't have to look at
project two to three times after it's installed whether it starts to fail anything fails so overall it just it
makes sense to just team up and we're all doing it for the same reason so yeah ultimately
from a brand standpoint when a manufacturer has something fell whether
it's the installer's faults or not the end user typically has some type of
strike in their mind about that manufacturer and that's what we we try to mitigate that right because we've
been in the hospitals where they're like we hate this product this product sucks and then we go and rip it out and it's
like the product doesn't suck it's just it wasn't installed correctly so that what
the lifespan was shortened a lot like if it was installed correctly they wouldn't
be having the issues and they wouldn't hate that product and that's something that we we tell the customers it's like
one we don't want to throw the installer under the bus because they did the best that they could they did the best with
the knowledge that they had was it enough no but the the manufacturer shouldn't pay for what that installer
did at the same time it's it's a great product and if we installed it you'll see that and I mean I'm not
at some point they've already made up their mind and they're going to switch out the product right but it's like we
just want to let you know that down the line if this product gets spiked again it's not a bad product and some of it
too is like if they didn't maintain it properly if they were
using them to maintain it because in their head uh it's been
institutionalized and that's what they've been doing for 20 years but the product specifications does not to do it
a certain way they could have killed the life of the product too so I guess I guess that's a education part goes beyond just starting
at the substrate and working your way up right as the system so the end user um should also be educated as far as
maintenance yeah just going off of that I mean I have one where the school district went
from VCT were they stripping wax twice to three times a year they want to use
LBT and they think it's a magical floor that you don't have to do anything to because LBT then they didn't change
their casters everything gets scraped up it's basically having cement put any salt salt melt anything going on
it just got scratched up we're like well it's LBT we don't have to do anything to it so that was coming off of no matter
what product was down it was going to get scratched up no matter what because it's starting from the installation from
the subfloor all the way up and then teaming up with Furniture just to maintain your like our one our product
to the installation because if it starts getting chewed up by Furniture it makes not only a manufacturer look bad the
installers look bad the end user is going to point a finger at somebody and because we're down first it's going to
be one of us foreign they even have stuff out there now it's
where you can um refinish LBT we went through a presentation yeah uh with the fcica and
who was that um I forget what I mean it was my pay wasn't it oh it was my pay yeah yeah they they got a topical it's a temporary
fix right but it's a selling place I never strip out
one there's uh there's some other Coatings and stuff you can put on top
like a solution but
you know I think everybody's moving to lvt um really messed up uh this just side note
the way lvt was sold for the first uh 10 years uh didn't do it any favors uh people
thought I couldn't scratch that uh you know it was impervious to
any problem didn't need any maintenance ever uh it
you know obviously we know different today but um 10 years ago
when there was not as many manufacturers of lvt maybe 15 would be a better time
frame but you know it was kind of sold as the clad back then you know many
people who specified all the Architects or designers or or uh end users who may
buy you know have been around them expect still have this expectation uh you know from a sales standpoint when
we're selling lvt we always talk about that it will scratch we promise you it will scratch if you
don't want to take care of it in a proper manner and maintain your dirt uh it will scratch
so but from an install standpoint uh back to that a little bit
you know as manufacturers if they could do an installer bulletin
with my only my this is my second uh thought installer bulletin that could be
distributed and and actually got in the installer's hand on when different
backing systems come out because you may be certified to be an awesome carpet layer
um but when a new backing comes out and I'm just talking carpet right now
but this applies to almost all of them especially lvt uh that the tailors for
that backing when the chemistry of that backing can just so to stop the processes that need to be
um considered how you install it so
attention part of the tree are you reading that right now
I I was played uh reading the question yeah yeah Levi said that not a question just
input right installation crew and and or the retailer should be explaining the cleaning processes and proper
maintenance to avoid uh potential warranty issues right and
commercially that's a little bit easier because we have to provide all that documentation anyways
[Music] or specification that we give them close
out care and maintenance and all that but you know as well as I do you go back and look at it in five years and someone
who did most of the maintenance Crews that take care of those commercial buildings
do not read or care they have their own system and they do something and
I've seen it completely ruined flooring before but but that's a good point that Levi brings
up is of course from a long-term standpoint
keeping the end user informed is important and and telling them how to maintain and clean their their flooring
or take care of their flooring it'll eliminate a lot of problems that that we go back to try to fix and
I mean I mean yeah so install our bulletins I I know that that manufacturers have like
lists of installers and if if something new comes up it's just
an installer bulletin doesn't need any sense to the company because some
companies have employment dollars but something for the installer to
uh engage with when they're updated install methods for different systems or
backings or something like that do that for us he said that every time something changes he's going to send us like a
little postcard and let us know where it is and how to find the link right that's what we're going to do now Jay because
you're our guy right so I said I told you I have homework so no but um when
you brought up the Nora certification Nora actually does that so they changed
the the adhesive and they change um their their stair installation to where
it's not in order to install nor stairs you have
to use the tape method now there's there's no more ASAP that's going on so
they they did send out you know documentation when that stuff changed um that's from the tech side the tech
rep actually emailed me and said hey this is what's changing
email me back let me know you got this question
that's the certification side you're saying yeah okay that's because I'm in
the certified database gotcha so now does that go out to everybody of hey
here's a here's a tweak of what we're what we're doing with our products this is how we're gonna do it from now on
yep okay um and then Patrick Mullins on LinkedIn
said that this is kind of what they're building not kind of that's what they are building floor Cloud for direct
manufacturer updates to installers so I guess that's something to look into as well
they've been on social media I've seen them a few places lately says when you go to select the product you are going
to install and send you a notification of the new change that's cool
yeah more cats Cloud systems pretty awesome and used but I watched their
uh their um
at fdica and then I I've talked to the
guys over there a couple of times offline so yeah it's pretty that's cool so so Jake we have a question for you
flooring manufacturer recommended adhesive
depends there's a lot of different instances of what the subfloor is
what I guess I think what he he's trying to get at is uh
in in your documentation it usually says Shaw
uh adhesive is required right it's yes we required he's for warranties I
understand that that always doesn't happen and people installers use what they're comfortable with and what
they're used to but again just being able to get the questions up front or those moisture tests done in the
Forefront of how can we prohibit something bad from happening
again if people are used to defense laws are used to using pressure sensitive or
uh just a regular wet set adhesive then that's what they're used to we can only
do so much to recommend our own and like you said just from the fourth like from a maintenance side too it's we
can say okay you have to buy these casters and we're trying to protect our floors we need to think of it as more
information and then be more information the better to then decipher an answer but if the if you were looking for
there's an overall One-Stop shop all adhesive I don't have that answer for
you that's a great answer so like um based on conversations that we've had
with we're just going to go across the board it's the installers that they actually
recommend a system that they're going to warranty and that they're going back that they're comfortable with because
that is the system that they are using for all of their testing if you were to venture outside of utilizing the system
that is recommend recommended by the manufacturer then what you're going to have to do is you're gonna have to make sure that there are safety mechanisms in
place and you are not skipping steps because if one thing fails the system is
not a whole they're gonna have to break it into segments and then they will find the failure where it was
um because science doesn't lie so I don't think any sales rep is going to tell you to yeah go ahead and use that
um like there's a question on there like what if it's not available well if it's not a if the manufacturer adhesive is
not available then you're going to have to use the next best right and the next
best most manufacturers are pretty good at giving that all alternative product I've
had that happen with some other you know if it's a hard set acrylic adhesive or
something well what's another manufacturer that makes one that you guys would accept
and specifically I bet I think a lot of us came really aware of this during the
covid problems we had plenty of of Manufacturers that were like no warranty
without our adhesives they couldn't Supply them and then all of a sudden they're like well you can use these three yeah so and then I'm just going to
try to get like an example here because there's a question about that is um Jake if we were in a scenario where
you guys were I would have uh adhesive for your uh terrain too just say we're
doing some 20 mil terrain two and we couldn't get any adhesive for it um what would be your recommendation for
the next next adhesive in in your toolbox that you are allowed by by Shaw contract to
tell us to use if that is the case yeah so so say that we use our typical resilient adhesive and we can't get it
for whatever reason may be then go into different buckets of still
that are under Shaw that are that are approved but then if we can't get that
then we would then go up the ladder for this project specific to get that that I guess stipulation of can we use
this for this project because of X Y and Z so it was it's just a matter of getting with your manufacturer's rep of
we can't get this we go to option b we can't get this we go to option C now
what can we do so it's just that open communication of how can we find a solution that fits this customer so that
so that question um should be run up the ladder call call the rep talk to them about it because it
can change every conversation exactly project to project Circumstance the circumstance right
because uh sometimes you know we're on the fly right because that's what it's a we have this we ran short on adhesive
the supply store is closing in the half hour which is what they have can I use
yes or no yeah and I don't have the capability being boots on the ground on
out running around to make those decisions so I gotta run it up the ladder too in order to get that approval
to then well actually that it's uh we can actually call the the number that's
on the bucket right the tech the tech number exactly customer service or talk to your
manufacturer's rep if you can't get a hold of them talk to customer service eventually you'll get in front of a
manufacturer's rep who then will have to reload it back or at least for in my case I gotta run it up the ladder to my
manager to then go to tech and and so on so and we've been in the situation
before where we've used some adhesive that said that it worked for certain
things and then it didn't because plasticizer migration is uh
a thing right yeah and the man it was actually wasn't a manufacturer it was
the adhesive so the he's adhesive manufacturer came back with oh you're
not supposed to use it on it and it's I pulled up the specs and it says 100 I
can use it on this so can you believe that they made up new labels and redistributed under new labels who would
do that I we won't say but they don't make the product anymore anyways this is
fun no it's California's fault yeah
actually you know what so that's another thing too is our distributor actually had her back on that instance right there and
actually stop carrying that specific product because of because the manufactured it back their failure
they clearly said in the labels that we had but their new labels were missing it and that's what they were trying to throw at us and we're like no dude like
that look at this look what we got right here look at this instead of here here is day inviting I need to actually your
old table and now because this issue you changed it so some installers pay attention Jason yeah hey that's that's
what we need the internet can be your friend and your enemy at the same time
um double-edged sword hey gentlemen
um already believe it or not
so um I want to thank you Jake for coming on I know some of the stuff we weren't
always you know it's not always looking for the exact answer from you just the insights and and thought processes on
you know I think it's important for manufacturers and the installation Community to have some some uh
some ways to share information and I also go into my very first point
just some level of factory training uh I do like the installer bulletin I
know or cloud has had uh jumped in and said you know that they're they're working on some stuff I know that you
know go career long term I'm not sure when this feature uh is out we will have
installed bulletin eventually where manufacturers just go on and load up uh new information on their
uh installation of a certain product and that'll go out to the entire go career
installer Network um and it'll show as red or not red or
uh you know opened or not opened and kind of get that feedback on
knowing that the installers are getting it rating it and understanding it um
and all those would also be great to have like a tech rep behind it that that
could answer any remaining questions so just some ideas
I love it no thank you guys for inviting me on it opened up my eyes as well so again if there's any questions it's good
for us as manufacturers to be reminded of this well as well because we are so in product where we gotta look at it on
the back end as well of how can we get something down that's going to stay down and perform well to make everybody look
good yeah and then there's our ultimate goal as installers too is we've come across some pretty good
product but we've come across a lot worse installs than bad products yeah right Kelly even puts on here she's when
we were talking about you know the manufacturers and backing up installers she said that uh the manufacturers
backup design organizations all the time why not start doing it for installers
since we're kind of that that backbone right it's uh foreign
to learn about the product that we're putting down and and stuff like that that's uh that's really what we need to
do oh I just real quick if I can just add I I
challenge just everybody to put their manufacture this opened up my eyes a lot
so if you're if you have a specific manufacturer that you love working with or just open up their eyes to so that
they can start that conversation where again it's not it's not it's not going to do anything but benefit us all in the
long run I love it I love it thanks for that comment that's that's important yeah push your sales reps and your Tech
reps to get you the information and and also push you if you've caught any nuggets off this uh off the Huddle
podcast here use them to to kind of uh like Jake said push your sales rep to
maybe make some meaningful change they they can push it up the mountain uh as
Jake was talking about earlier and and get it up to higher levels and I think we all want a better installation a
better installation community and you know at the end of the day deliver great
projects for our end users so yeah all right gentlemen well hey thanks Jake
for joining us again and appreciate it yeah thank you guys appreciate it yeah
it was awesome and Daniel Jose thanks again for being a good Good Samaritan to
the the flooring installation Community because that a lot of people listen and
uh I think that understanding that some of the challenges that we go through out
in the field and the stuff that the the instances you bring up are fresh and can
help us all be better so I appreciate you guys I appreciate everybody thanks for the audience everybody joining in if
you like the content you have heard today consider liking and subscribing to our
YouTube channel we upload these every every uh every week we upload them to uh
our YouTube channel so go searches out like And subscribe join the podcast get
involved in the community outside that I want to say thank you to everybody once more and
we'll uh see you guys next week all right thanks guys
thank you