The Huddle - Episode 36 - Subs Hiring Subs (Trade Partners Hiring Trade Partners)
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose talk about the positives and negatives about subcontractors (Trade Partners) hiring other subcontractors (Trade Partners), and different ways to avoid sticky situations and launch your subcontracting (Trade Contracting) business forward.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family? welcome to the
huddle we're here every Tuesday at three o'clock to discuss many maintaining
forward progress in your flooring career we go over a multitude of things last
week we had the ladies from Wi-Fi was that last week yes I believe so
um and that was an enjoyable conversation uh this week we're going to be talking
about um hiring subs and those subs having Subs instead of employees on their
Cruise so uh this is a very
um in-depth conversation it's something that I believe most people in our in our
industry would uh agree there's a lot of risks so we're going to kind of go over some of those maybe get some questions
uh from the audience on um you know some some uh problems that
maybe they have experienced um sorry I need to introduce uh I'm Paul
Stewart and with me as always is Jose who is in an airport somewhere and
Daniel at the home office up in Michigan Grand Rapids at PF flooring so
uh another training slash
event where where is that at Jose um here it's in Georgia
um I don't know exactly what town yet um one of them pay uh adhesive facility
I believe there you go that's what exactly well awesome
well good job sir I'll just plug it in here guys so bear with me I'm sorry about that kind of our schedule here
you're welcome so welcome welcome uh all right well we're gonna get right
into it here um if if I could get a show of hands
um I would but uh you know I if you're in flooring and you've uh you own a
flooring company a full service that provides materials and labor uh for
commercial flooring projects even residential for that matter and you hire subcontractors to do your installation
or some portion of that installation one of the things that
um I know many people struggle with I know the industry itself struggles with
is those subs that you hired hiring other subs that work underneath them uh
and um you can kind of think of it kind of like a labor broker almost
uh the good ones that really do it right uh make sure that those their subs have
insurance and everything um you know they they run it correctly
they do training they they provide more than just here's a job
uh but with in full disclosure my grandson is here with us today not
feeling well so if you hear a little voice in the background that's that's him and you may even see him running
around uh behind me every now and again because uh three-year-olds are
impossible to um tie down they do what they want and it's illegal
hey and if you guys uh I guess I'm Gonna Keep muting myself here but if it gets too loud when I'm on
um just go ahead and mute me let me just two hours awesome
Okay so Jose uh well let's go with you Daniel
since you're in a quiet place um you guys hire Subs right we do and do have you experienced this
where those subs have guys that work for them that are on a 1099 and not a W-2
yeah all the time I think that's uh that's that happens more often than not
to be honest with you and yeah that's and we're we're also you know
we've been guilty of that in the past too the the one thing that that we did
though was the research and knowing that okay there I mean the the federal government puts out a
form and says here's a checklist if they meet any of these things they're an employee it's like I mean boom
right so so you you gotta that that's where a lot of the that they
where we say you know it's we've been doing this for 20 years is this the same way that they pay the
the guys that work with them it's I've been paying them this way for 20 years
I've never been busted so it must be the right way but they don't really realize
that all it takes is that one time and then they can pretty much take your entire bank
account you know based on how much you paid out and stuff because it's not only do you have to pay penalties and all
that you actually have to pay the guys what they're owed and um one of the the biggest things I think
when we were looking at it was the overtime thing it's like when you're paid on a 10.99 no one's keeping track
of overtime yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of
risks which and I want to be clear if you're doing it right and what I would say is right
is that you are a sub and you're subbing to another sub for whatever reason you have that
business relationship not being a um
employment relationship when they're actually their own entity because we've also worked with people like that too
where it's just two guys and they partner up to get things done but they also do their own separate thing yeah
it's not like the only way we're gonna end up working is if we work together it's I have my
thing you have your thing I get my jobs you get your jobs and then they partner up on those to be able to
to help each other out yeah so that that Dynamic also works too so yeah it's it's
as long as everybody and as far as doing it right what I'm saying is that everybody in the equation has the proper
liability insurance and or workman's comp depending on where
you live in Kansas you're able to exclude yourself from workman's comp if
you are an owner and that's a lot of times I think why these things happen hey uh will you mute uh Jose thank you
sir um and that's why that Dynamic happens but as long as everybody is in the
equation has the proper liability insurance and the proper work comp uh
then or the the the waiver for the work comp in Kansas you can sign a waiver as a as
a uh 1099 as the owner company yep yeah you can do that in Michigan as well and
that's what um your brother Danny Sherman says he says workers comp can bite you yes
yeah and and their job is to try when we get work comp audited their job is to
try to find extra money that's what those Auditors do there they go in to
try to find the holes in your systems so that they can charge for that uh they
realize that that person is not paying work comp they're losing out on money and so if they can get the company all
the way up to the flooring company to cover then then they will so make sure you have good
um good policies in place one thing that I
would suggest for any flooring company is to have a master subcontract agreement with your subs and that then
governs all work all work orders that you may uh award to that subcontractor and in
that um remember we got to start calling them
trade partners trade Partners uh uh so in there you are
addressing items like um pay that they they realize you know that
that they pay their subs that it's required and that they're held liable if
the sub's not paid we'll get into some stories here of uh some catastrophes
that I have experienced in my own business um and then also make sure that your Sub
sub is like that there's some level of training and and making sure that they're capable of doing the job that we
push training here because the freaking technology changes so often and the way
that you apply different products to to the to different substrates change so
often that you have to be aware of these the new trends and things so that's why
we're always you know promoting and preaching to be part of the industry and to be plugged in but that being said
I know that at one uh one point in our uh career we did not or in our business
we did not address these items uh and we had a a project where a sub got paid and
the they hired somebody locally uh it was an out of town project and they
hired someone locally to help them with that project and to not pay them that crew then calls us actually that crew
then called The GC and said they weren't paid which looks terrible for us and
then that GC calls us and says you have Labor on your project that is saying they're not paid
you need to get a hold of this guy and get this situation rectified immediately now they don't care who owes who they
just want that problem done and and gone so we ended up just paying that that uh
local sub and I'm making sure they were whole um and then went back to our sub and and
eventually uh recovered that money from them but you're going to be out double
the money A lot of times if if that happens so make sure that your subs if
they have other subs working for them that they are responsible and that they have that attitude of taking care of
their guys taking care of their subs of their trade Partners if you're going to
take care of your trade partner make sure they're doing the same thing so is there is there something that anyone can
have in place for the future for that because I know that that's going to be a scenario that we're never going to be
able to solve it is there any literature anything any contracts that are currently out there
that give a great Chancellor of that type of partnership well the master having a good Master uh
subcontract agreement with your trade partner is important that addresses
these items there you're right in fact what I have written down here is that being said is
there any way to prevent this Dynamic and I would say no uh I mean just it's
kind of a rhetorical rhetorical question but the fact is is we can't prevent it
from happening how do you tell a company they can't hire another company to do the work you can't do that right and and
there's some of the GCS that um the contracts come through and they want you to list
any you know trade partners that you're using and there's also one underneath them that they want to know if they're
going to use any trade Partners so that way they're keeping track of everything because uh that's where like a lot of
the a lot of the guys that are kind of new to
new to it they don't really look at like the lean waivers and stuff right because it's it's always they're going through a
company don't really need to provide anything because you know what we're going to be
doing all the paperwork and doing all the lien waivers and stuff but it's it's to the point where you
know they're wanting to see everything down to the the trade partners and stuff like that so
and then once they you know I imagine over some some stuff and it's like I need this Lien Waiver
they're like what what is this and it's like like this is gonna be pretty standard
across the board now I think it's you know um yeah I mean the GCS have experienced the
same thing I just uh right said was they they've experienced Subs saying they
weren't paid by their sub which was a sub of of the overall contract holding
sub and that's a lot of Subs in the deal that's three tiers of subcontractors for
a GC the fluorine subcontractor the main holder of the contract with the general
contractor then you have your master agreement with your sub and then they have another one and what what there's
no way to prevent it but I thought what we should do is talk about best practices and how to keep things moving
forward maybe give some some of the audience some some tools and some advice
on how it's been dealt with uh both at my company and at preferred flooring
um we use the master subcontract agreement soon
um to make things a lot easier for us when a new sub comes on they'll be able to fill out our agreement right through
go Carrera so that is is coming in in an important part where our company members
will be able to have their required subcontract documents and anything they want their sub to fill out as part of
their go career sign up because you guys also do the lien waivers through Google yep
so having a good Master subcontract agreement is kind of your first line
defense of making sure that you're talking to your trade partners and making sure that they have if you if you
know that they're subbing that work down to another trade partner then ask them talk to them may ask them to
that that they get that you you know request the insurance from that third
tier trade partner and not just take it for granted or make sure that your trade
partner has an umbrella uh policy that covers anybody working on that project
with you uh those types of that type of language is in our uh masters of
contract agreement um and I that's kind of your first line of defense so what do you guys do and
what what uh what can you uh teach me on you know protecting and I just want to
be clear there's two big risks you have the risk of the the third tier trade
partner say running a forklift through a 200 000 uh you know storefront
and causing immense amount of damage and you need to be making sure that
you're protected from that and then you have the pay that you need to be make sure that you're protected from a that
standpoint that they are paid um you know we are
trying to um formulate some best practices within go Carrera that will help that with our
members which is you know having the third tier even sign
um that they have been paid uh lean release kind of thing so you know but that takes
a lot of uh that that'll be in the future immediately we have to know ways that we
can protect our companies and our our employees and our people from losing
money because uh a third tier trade partner did not have the appropriate insurance or did
not have their ducks in a row so I think we've been uh pretty fortunate to where
yeah where any of our partners that were hiring it's just them and no one
underneath them because the the projects that we're handling are just
you know pretty simple right um the the guys in-house are handling are the more complicated stuff which is
sounds backwards when you think about it right but we like to keep them busy yeah we do the same thing I would say
our in-house guys we try to keep them busy first and so they're gonna you know do right keep them busy first and then
sub everything else out we do have a master's up uh trade partner contract
which you know we have in there that they need to carry the insurances and
you know they we we're not going to be held liable for something that they do and they're responsible for pretty much
all the punch lists and all that stuff and then um I also have in their document that I
have them signed that says if they don't have workers comp then
they need to get they're signing it right and they need to get the exclusion or they're they are working by
themselves um what dynamic well why do you guys think
that this Dynamic is present in our industry
oh man um
licensing required there's no structure per se on how it
on how it should be tiered there's there there's a template but there's so many
loopholes in that template that there's no no set structure that can be followed because you can it's a trickle effect
you can have uh a trade contractor and have a trickle-down of other contractors
underneath them as long as they're meeting the minimum requirement right um and the minimum requirement is across
the board um like like our insurance and our liability might be higher than um a lot
of the individuals that we were hire um but that's because we're taking on a little bit more like you we're taking
our larger contracts we're assuming more liability Not only was the uh labor
aspect but with the material you know and everybody has to be listed as uh
co-insured the labor portion uh the big contractors don't have to worry about anyone
um but I just feel like besides the minimal structure that is
set forth by uh federal and state laws I think that's pretty much it and every state is is inconsistent right from
state to state is different would you say the the ideal structure like for me
anyway the ideal structure is if I hire uh
a trade partner to do a job that then the the installers under them are
that are working for them are employees that's ideal that
is ideal and like you said why is this like this right and it I think it all goes back to like when I say that I got
into the the industry I started getting paid on the 10.99 and I had no idea what was going on until I went to file my
taxes and they're like oh yeah by the way you owe us this much money it's the same thing with this owner starts to do
things and bring people on it I'm paid like this I'm gonna pay you like this
like they don't do the research to know that that's wrong and then
um a lot of the times I think what happens is they they start doing it and then by the time they realize that it's
wrong they're like well I don't want to change because human nature you know humans
don't like change yes what could happen the consequences
right like and for one admitting that you're admitting your wrongs yeah you
did not know something and that you might have failed and kind of slid between the cracks so to speak
um that's always hard but it's just getting those next steps and
that's where the separation too comes from uh owning a job versus a business is
you know it's sad to say that some some of these uh let's just call them work rooms because I think that's what they're referred to as boardrooms
they're the ones that are pretty much putting the bill for all the insurance and uh one of the I don't know the exact
inner workings but based off of what I've been told is there's a percentage taken off of the top and this work room
is hired to have X amount of jobs and they stay busy they have a lot but these
other companies hire them because they know that they have the resources to get the jobs done but instead of educating
these other trade Partners who are just starting or don't want to move up they
um they keep them stagnant they don't educate them on uh some of the laws some
of the rules some of the regulations they keep them stagnant and say just give me a percentage of what I'm telling
you you're going to get paid and I'll take care of the rest not knowing that them taking care of the rest really
isn't doing them any favors at all like they're still going to be held responsible yeah and
you know when you start talking about the big work rooms uh or Workshop
companies out there so you know I've had experience with some that all of them are employees and
that's awesome the ones who do re-sub the workout uh to
another trade partner the the the you don't always know that is that is
what's so um scary about it like you you don't
know if they treat them like an employee um right that they are another that they
are not a true W-2 uh without auditing that per that company's you know
financial situation uh your trade Partners uh you know finances so to
speak to to learn that I mean really you just gotta ask questions I think and be
aware of what the how the trade Partners set up how is their business set up and
get to know it you know a thought just came to mind I wonder if like asking
that question with have them uh you know almost a yes or no question in the
master uh agreement do you sub your work out or or your uh is your work performed
by employees at least you would know this like when we're working for GCS right they have a pre-qualification that
is one of the questions what percentage of your work is done in-house and what percentage of your
work is subbed out they they these are the things they want to know not only that it's when we're we're trying to
work with someone they want to know everything they want our balance sheet they want our profit and laws they want
to know everything about your company for you to work for them and I think that's what a lot of people that aren't
in the position that we're in realizes that once you do get here you're pretty much you got to be an open book anyways
in order to get some of the work and then when we go and ask them you know a simple question it's like why are you
even asking me this it's like I mean because we gotta know normalized
to where transparency is key right where it's like I mean I'm giving out all of
my information all I'm asking you is if you're using someone else like it's essential it goes like it goes like this
is um the reason that we ask this question is because we're doing the same things you're doing by not wanting to
answer the question we're trying to protect our business so we're asking because we're trying to protect ourselves right we're trying to
make things are in line with what we're trying to do what we're trying to build and with what's expected from us
that is the same reason that individuals don't want to answer those questions because they're trying to protect what
they have going on early um and if if they were to make the connection with
the right people and get educated uh under the right circumstances they would understand the business aspect and
realize that some of these workers who are doing it um I don't think the wrong way let's just
say who are who are not ethical on it right um from a governance standpoint
um who are doing it that way if they were just to use their efforts and their smarts to do everything the right way they could probably have a very large
successful employee-based business instead of a contractor or a community
partner business that that's really what the industry needs is Subs to hire employee installers and get and train
them up and charge the amount that they need to charge to have them as an employee and not as a Sub sub uh or
trade partner trade partner you know like that that would be like I said
earlier on that would be ideal um you know but we are in reality and in reality
Subs our trade Partners or our subcontractors do hire other trade
Partners or subcontractors to do the work now why that relationship is there is anyone's guess but the there's
there's like what you said Daniel if there's two
guys or two or three guys that are all getting work and they team up on jobs
and then sometimes they'll do them on their own but sometimes they're teamed up well those are all individual owners
that can exclude themselves for more calm um I would encourage you not to do that
honestly if you don't have health insurance on the outside like work comp is not that expensive for yourself
and if you hurt yourself where you're going to go if you don't have normal insurance right so I believe as
proprietor we have to exclude ourselves um you don't you don't have to
not not in Kansas you don't I don't know it's actually an additional form that we
have to fill out so yeah um so I started thinking too and um you
were right about the uh the Cyber trade contractor um like they're gonna keep hiring and
keep hiring right and I mean potential solutions for them like if they don't want to get in trouble that's what it is
I think they just don't want to assume responsibility of that individual those wages um but if they didn't if they wanted to
avoid trouble the real way to do it is onto all the forms which could get
really messy I don't and I don't think that it's only people they don't want to do it yeah they don't
it's not that some people don't want to do it it's that they don't know how to do it right
yeah or they just don't know like you said when you first got going you didn't
realize that you were gonna get this big tax bill I would just say this one statement if you're a young new
installer that's just getting trained or you've you you want to get into this
industry be an employee find a way to work for either a company or a a
workshop a work shop that that um that will hire you as an employee do
that for the first three to five years and then if you want to go out and sub you'll you'll be more prepared for it at
the very least just know that you're going to be responsible for the taxes and I've watched it too many times uh
our trade Partners get into trouble because they get behind on taxes and such so just realize you're going to
have to pay all that the company's not paying for it they don't have the responsibility to do so it's your job
and your it's it's your responsibility to cover the taxes on that so if you're being paid as a 1099
through a workshop or through by a company just realize you are really you are
liable for all that so I encourage every new guy to work for somebody for as an
employee for as long as you can and hopefully you find a good home and you can uh you know stay on there for long
term we have several installers at our team at sna that are an accountant
blah blah blah all those uh all those uh things I guess I need to say but
you it is preferred and it is looked upon better if you do that you'll get
you'll get by better and you're paying taxes that's what they want people the
government wants you to pay your taxes not avoid them if you can if you have
legitimate deductions and you have legitimate ways to uh offset your
taxable income wonderful that is all legal nothing wrong with it
however pain pain taxes on your income uh you know and separating those two is
a good it's just a good practice to do if you can um that's my opinion
and then um some of the guys out there who um do have a lot of other trade partners that work with them or under
them and don't don't feel like you have to have a brick and mortar until classify two thousand employees you can
do that out here you can use your kitchen as an office and still classify people you don't need a physical uh
brick and mortar so to speak or Warehouse or a business you can you can still do that it doesn't have to be a
physical location um the paper doesn't discriminate in a physical location but the same on paper
um to everybody we were working out of a storage unit foreign
yeah I mean I thought the the the last part that maybe
we can hit on is who's properly training or making sure that the third tier trade partner is
receiving the training uh a good subcontractor a good labor provider
trade partner will make sure that their subs or their trade partners are at
least have access to to training and understand them or help them get to them something has to be done if you're not
going to treat them as an employee and send them to the training at least have a good
um a good system in place where you have
trainings at your at your place or maybe the flooring company that you work with
uh has trainings that you can make sure that all your guys are a part of
um there again they're not your employees so you can't force them but giving the opportunity and making sure
that they know that the opportunities are there that's I mean huge like because
um like Jose and Chris are in Georgia this week for an AFC team
they got a resilient class that they're launching with uh Andy and Kevin from novalis
they already did the sub straight and subfloor so they missed out on today it
actually started today but it looks like they had a pretty good turnout and then I actually uh yeah
John Curtis is uh in North Carolina right now at the Sim program
so it's it's all about and like you say reinvesting in the business right you
invest in the people to to go out and learn something so that they can invest back into their business
as well yeah a lot of the contractors I'm sorry
um as far as the subcontractors uh you're right though I'm like we can give advice and help one-on-one
at the shop or say hey this training is available hey let me connect you with with some of uh some of the trainings
out there but it's really up to them because you know like then that notorious kind of hard to just
pray for them to do something knowing that they don't have to come and do or use any of that knowledge that they
gained um for any of the work for you they don't they can choose not to work for you anymore after that class
um and it's just a little bit harder to do that allow kudos to the people who can do that and they do keep
themselves busy enough to know that they're not going anywhere anytime soon but then again
it probably should be classified as employees because they know they're not going anywhere well there's not a
we all want to have loyal people but you got to think of it like your GC thinks
of it I don't have one GC as good a relationships as we have it gives us
every single project and they do that on purpose they don't want me or our
company to be misclassified as an employee uh because every job they do is
done by us and so Subs out there I I know there's a big Desire by other
flooring companies out there to hoard their subcontractors or their trade partners and not you know want them to
go to do any work for any competitor at any time well you're breaking the law I
I don't know how to say it gently you're breaking the law that guy is and it may
not have come home to roost yet but you know one of the things we try to make sure of if we see one of our trade
Partners doing too much work with us and not with anyone else will literally not
work them for a little bit and until they have to go do some work elsewhere
most of them just naturally through our slow time or something to the Ebbs and
flow of business we'll go grab a job or two from another flooring contractor and
you know we invite that we we feel like that's the that is one of the cleanest ways to prove that they are not your
employee if they come to work for you on Monday Tuesday Wednesday and then for
the next week and a half they're working for someone down the street well it's a clear identifier that they're not your
your employee that's not an employee Arrangement and that they're free to go out and earn business and find business
elsewhere so I would encourage people that think that you want to hoard your subs to reconsider and understand that
like that that is a big thing that some something that is a big thing the IRS is
going after trying to grab that money that they're they feel like they're missing so please
for those companies out there who are listening or or trade Partners subcontractors if you will if you
haven't yet you're not probably up to the trade partner or uh lingo yet um
if there was only a program out there or something available that can help them with that right help them share
um in the the contractors that do the installations for them so that way they're not put in a bad position right
dig them another Avenue to find additional work you know you're going to keep them busy but hey sometimes you got
to let them go for a minute to save yourself and if somebody else has work because there was only a program out
there that could probably help facilitate that I don't I don't know maybe you guys know something about that and he says that you can't fire him but
you can give them incentives right and that kind of goes to we've touched on this with employees or too right it's
like show me that you're worth more and it's the same thing with with the subs is because we've been in that position
we know people that have been in that position where like this this is you're not paying me enough well show me that
you're you're worth more yeah in a way a sub could do that or a trade partner could do that is by
showing that all your all your installers are in fact employee installers that goes a long way I mean I
understand this might be like yeah well you you know the flooring companies don't want to hire the employees so why
are we being uh you know why is the burden being put on us as a as a trade
partner to hire them as employees well I think flooring companies should hire as employees I if if I'm honest I would
hire mostly employees most of the time uh unfortunately our Market just doesn't
have enough people that desire to work that way and so we have to work with subcontractors and we're fine doing it
we have great relationships with our subs but I would still just say that
you know someone through this process it can't just be chaos and like when when you go to war
or when countries you know go to battle back in the day they there weren't you
have individual platoons that are that all make eventually a company that make a brigade blah blah blah well they're
all in unison they're all working together just because they're an individual uh
platoons doesn't mean they're not working together and staying informed uh that's kind of a bad analogy but the
point here is having if if you have if you're a trade partner a first-tier
kind of guy that has a bunch of Subs underneath you that are working for you they at least have to
um understand and kind of operate under the same thing that you are doing
does that make sense I know what that might be confused what I'm trying to say is that no I hired this I hired this
trade partner for his skills and ability I don't want to get this trade partner that is that's working under him that
doesn't have that same skill and ability or or at least the same approach to a project
well that that's uh it goes all goes back to a conversation that I had with a wise man when you're on the on the road
to a restaurant where he said that you can't take the 1099 away because it
kills the entrepreneurship and that's what this country was built on most entrepreneurial skills right yeah
completely take that away however if people understood that they were better classified
somewhere else and they could experience more consistent success as an employee
because of their shortcomings as a business owner are because of uh their
lack of attention to getting better ugly cracked and they can be exposed to a wider range of education and maybe some
of that education would be how to be a better business owner but
we're never going to get rid of the 1099 so I was going to be there but it utilized the right way in the right
manner by the right people you could have a lot more success the success I think if you look at our the design of
our industry it's just uh a little off because even the
the organizations that are trying to pull the newcomers in they keep on pushing them into being You Can Be Your
Own Boss you can do this you can do that and it's like why don't we start telling them
something else right off the get-go right I think the problem though Daniel is there's not enough companies hiring
employees so they can't place them with companies and they end up getting into this whole mix and I I get it but at the
end of the day that if you are new to this industry if
you can possibly get a job as an employee for a little while and I love
our trade Partners our subs and 1099 Crews like we I have no I'm not against
that whatsoever uh the the the piece that I'm trying to address is just
to help them not get into tax problems and to properly train so that they're
able to produce a consistent product and obviously stay out of trouble
um but yeah as long as we're bringing people in and telling them they could be their own boss out of the gate I think
that's the dangerous part because you what what business Acumen have you
achieved by that part by that point um I don't know you know there's some
there's some uh companies out there like footprint floors that does a good job of
training the people to be business owners and then those those franchisees
for footprint floors then um they get all this really high quality training from a business perspective
they go through some Technical Training to learn the the trade if they don't already know it but then they hire Subs
to to actually perform the work but they as a as a sub so to speak or as a trade
partner they they have the business knowledge to fall back on and that's the
piece that we don't train well in our industry right and that's kind of like I mean as
we have a board in the the office but back in the day I uh I came up like hey what if we were just to bring people
around and whatever I'm saying like the contract let's teach them all aspects and try to have them uh you know at x
amount two three four five years they can either choose to stay an employee or they can choose to go ahead and go on
their own and we'll help and we'll support that and kind of like give them a little nudge on their way or you know
I don't want to say push them off equipment like I'm learning how to slide because you know I think they're not flying they're falling right so yeah
um so it said dad and uh a while ago and it's just you're right it's just one of
those things like yeah you could be a business owner but you know you can't put someone in
college for all these years and tell them they're going to make x amount of dollars a year and they're still gonna
fail if they don't know how to handle the finances that they're going to be bringing in right
Rollin says that the IRS knows that Subs are using people that they can't track so the only thing they can do is come
after the dealer and kind of wish he was on here so he could uh kind of elaborate on that but I have
read in the past before um like when we were making the transition about how it's almost a
trickle up thing right though they'll come to us and then we can't prove anything so then they they come to the
dealer and it'll go all the way up into you know the the construction company
that you're working for and it's like who's going to end up paying this it's uh people need to keep track of this
stuff and we've had um meetings with some of the construction companies and they were
pretty honest about everything and they were like who is doing this we need to know
yeah well I feel like we could go a whole another
hour here on this topic but we are nearing the end
um I think some big takeaways is make sure if you're a company uh hiring trade
partners that you have a good uh Master subcontract agreement on the installer
or trade partner labor provider side try to make sure that you
um you know that you care about a training and B get knowledgeable on
how you're paid understand how you're paid and what that means to you financially
and what your what Your liabilities are there from attacks and uh Insurance perspective
uh it's not a the funnest topic to talk about but it's it's deep and uh we'll
probably do another one on this because I don't know that we you know we scratched the surface but I don't know
that we came up with a ton of solutions you know I think that you have to it
there's steps to it right and a lot of the the guys don't even keep track of their income or their expenses so maybe
we can talk to you know have one about about that even it's like start with
something and then work up to the next thing because that's that's kind of like the same thing that we did you know
maybe we should have about our conversation maybe we should have some people on the podcast uh like an insurance agency or
um somebody's uh CPA just so that way they can explain it um I think I think next time that we
shoot this we should have some experts on from insurance and an accountant and
kind of talk through that with with uh people who are certified and trained to
talk about it I just have a lot of experience and I know you guys to do that as well so
all right guys well we're nearing the go ahead Robin says that he's working
with dealers fighting the workplace fraud act in Maryland so that is you
know showing proof I'd like to know more about other people that yeah that are misclassifying right and
it's a trickle up effect so if if you're not doing something right it's going to get to the dealers and dealers don't
want to deal with that stuff either so it's on them to also realize that they have to
at least pass on the information that they know yeah don't worry when they get caught with their pants down they're going to
figure out a way to put it all back on you plus some because they're not just worried about you it's certainly important uh I'd love
to pick Roland's mind on what yeah we do yeah I know I've got to
schedule you rolling yeah come on rolling all right guys well hey to the audience
if you like the content if you've enjoyed the podcast and you understand what we're trying to do here you find
Value please consider subscribing liking uh what whatever platform you're
watching on you know give us a comment or a like um and uh we appreciate the attendance
uh thank you as always to my friends at preferred flooring up in Michigan for
you know helping this podcast be um as informative as it is I really
appreciate you guys and uh from there we will see you next uh week same time
Central uh three o'clock Central Time every single Tuesday
anything signing out fellas sorry I was walking around making everybody dizzy
all right guys well I appreciate you guys appreciate the input and uh to our audience again consider giving us a like
And subscribe and we will see you guys next week all right see ya all right
thanks guys
thank you