The Huddle - Episode 73 - Charging What You're Worth
This week the guys discuss how to charge what you're worth, how to measure your "worth", and how to increase it to make more money.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up Floren family welcome to the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining Ford
progress in your flooring career with me as always Mr Daniel and
Jose Gonzalez have preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan how's it going today fellas going good man we are
going good little beat up but yeah I last week we were talking about a job where it was a planned burnout and we
worked we started the project on Friday and worked every day and then we're actually
finishing it up today so we're a day ahead of schedule which worked out
because we got another thing small thing tomorrow another plan to
burnout yeah but the the good thing is then everyone gets you know four days
off yeah actually had to say say no to uh Friday
but this it's okay sometimes you got to say no
yes well gentlemen it's great to have you on and and uh out of the gate here I
want to wish you guys a Happy Thanksgiving I hope you guys get to spend some time with family and and
that's to everybody in the audience as well like I hope you get to spend some time with the people that you really
care about and why we do all this and work so hard um you know it's uh just a
few days off but man if you take advantage of them build that family unit
up we were um our epoxy partner was just in here he used one of our demo machines
for a project today and he came in he's like man he added some stuff today and now I'm gonna have to go in on Thursday
because he has be open Friday morning and it's actually perfect right because he was like do I do I charge them extra
for that and we're like yeah man like you need to that's a holiday way extra
that's a great story that's a great story to kick off talking numbers and
charging what you're worth which is today's topic we had a similar topic way
back in episode like 12 or 15 or something like
that um and these are these are always so
such a it's kind of a nuance subject uh I
think kicking it off you got to understand what's valuable to the consumer and to the stores I mean for
you to charge what you're worth not everybody's worth the same
right right that's a hard one right because where do you get the metric
besides yourself right what what it is is well a Shameless plug for go Carrera
is a higher hammer rating thank you for the setup a higher Hammer rating is your
clear indication that like I'm better trained if you have a high Kudos score and you've actually done work across a
network uh a high Kudo score and a high Hammer rating right there you have clear
identifiable metrics that you can say I am one of the best here's my proof this is why I'm charging more uh if you don't
choose to use me I understand but I about 70% of my clients give me uh Kudos
and most of my Kudos are um at this in this uh Arena maybe it's professionalism
and exceptional quality uh just as a refresher we track five metrics
professionalism attitude punctuality dependability and exceptional quality
but that is the industry's only real metric that you can do that because you
got well I'm certified so am I well I'm R1 well I'm R2 well I'm C3 and I'm or C2
I'm master and it's like okay well when does it matter and when does it I I mean it just and no no knock to any of the
the um training entities that that could go all the way through well I'm CTI well
I'm act and you know or I'm uh ceramictile uh uh you know I got mine
online of course no one would say that but they just say ceramictile distribution whatever I forget the uh
the gentleman uh Donato's uh company that where you can get a certification online and he has great great great
education on there but it is online and it's simply not as valuable uh as as uh
I think understandably not as valuable as a in-person Hands-On tested P fail
kind of situation a couple of quick notes uh while I have it on my uh head
here um CFI is doing a two-week course here in Witchita introduction course
into um into uh flooring the twoe course is a $2500
value and it's free 100% free wow so if you are a new uh person the only
requirement is that you're not you know you if you go and you're very experienced you're not going to find
Value in the course so you might as well not waste the two weeks but if you're new we have couple of guys that we're going to be hiring I'm hoping I'm trying
to get this course filled because I would love for it to stay free uh because I am I would love to use it as
our hiring tool just saying straight up you go to this course you complete it
we'll we'll loan you the two we two weeks worth of pay at six months of employment that loan is Forgiven and we
have a uh somebody who's not completely green so it is at uh pu's uh training
facility here in Witchita it's a two-e course it's December 4th through the 15th I
believe yes and the it kind of came about quick I wish there was a little
bit more time um the dates last week were not perfectly set so
um I was not 100% on whether or not I couldn't really
I could bring it up but I couldn't give dates last week so I mean um but if you are anywhere close to witch anywhere
close and and I can confirm that it's worth to 2500 bucks their five-week cours is almost it's like five or
$6,000 and it's a similar course this is just condensed down into two weeks so
it's a very valuable course thank you to the to the uh people that are sponsoring
that which is the fcef and the wfca people and the the fact is is that I'm going to
see if I can pull up the um um the website so I can get well I don't
know if it's made it to their website um I had the let me see where that is at
and I will share it but there is a um uh flyer that i' would like to share
and I can maybe leave that up for a moment so people can use the the
uh what is that called um QR code QR code thank you I'm looking and trying to
think at the same time and you know guys like me that's like come on man so okay
I'm gonna pull the QR code just to quickly uh let you know the location is
pro flooring 723 East Skinner wit talk Kansas so it's December 4th through the
15th Monday through Friday 8:30 a.m. through 4:00 p.m. it's a completely free
course the CFI two-e residential carpet course and they will put a a s a uh uh I
think they would be they're completely open I should say to putting a little more uh commercial oriented things if
they have enough commercial guys I know we're sending a few commercial guys uh and so
so there there will be that aspect I'm looking at um what you were talking
about I see the witch one and then in February there's actually one in Jenison Michigan which is not far away from us
it's probably only like what 10 minutes 15 minutes away well there you go let's
pack these courses um let me see here I'm going to put this
up so that um it can be sh there we go I am just going to share
my screen for a moment oh uh host go Carrera please uh
enable me as a uh to uh share for a moment if
possible but anyway so pack that course it's here in witchta like uh Daniel said
there's one coming up in uh Michigan very close to where they're located so
you know getting through cor and and um uh if you're brand new um some of the
guys coming out going to the course here are in completely different fields and want to give floring a try and I'm like
there you go here's a like two two two weeks will at least give you a good
taste of whether or not you want to do this and uh if you complete it and you
want to continue we will hire you and we will pay you for your two weeks that's
pretty that's pretty awesome uh what just a I think it's residential carpet
it is residential carpet with uh but there there will be you know just talk to the trainer they they'll put some
commercial uh an a commercial aspect to it if they have enough commercial oriented people um at least uh I believe
that's true the the other thing is you're not I think they're going to
do kind of an overview of of just floring in general a lot of these things like floor prep and stuff that they hit
you're not going to become a pro in two weeks but what you are going to do is understand what a kicker looks like
understand how carpet is installed understand ma some about how it's made
and just understand jobsite setups and things of this nature so when you do get paired with a journeyman installer or a
mechanic or a whatever you uh however they're referred to in your area around
here we call them mechanics uh uh but um when you are paired up with the mechanic
at least when they say hey go grab my out of the truck you know what to go
look for uh and you don't get tricked into grabbing a tile stretcher or something like this guy uh because uh
you know that that kind of thing happens V vinyl Bas stretcher in the purple unicorn box
yeah that's a legit thing so here is here's the um
flyer and um the QR code let's see if we
can bring the QR code bigger so if you uh I hope that works doing it this way
if you're on and you want to uh pop that QR code and register that is um how you
will get the course for free very valuable course of course guys I I can't
um did that work uh Jose did okay perfect there you go so I'm Gonna Leave
This up for a minute while we talk uh through through some of this stuff also I want to remind everybody
that we are doing the Sim scholarship for go career's uh sponsoring another
Sim uh scholarship this year and the um
details of that are going to is on our social media it will continue to be on the social media I believe um Ashlin if
you could send me a chat on the information uh when we close that I
believe it's January um I forget the day I'll tell
you here in a moment as soon as I get my brain to tell me okay application is open until December 18th so you got
about a month here to apply and Ashlin where do we uh send people to uh apply
we will be announcing the winner on our January 9th huddle so if you're watching this or you watch it on YouTube later
make sure you're on the January 9th huddle so with that being said uh I'll share
other details throughout the podcast here um there's a link on our Instagram
page I believe you guys if you could share that link on your page that would be awesome and we're also going to share
it on all of the Huddle uh socials and show notes so it should also be in the
description if you're watching this in YouTube uh it's probably down in the description doing a good job on blasting
it out too I think I've already gotten like two or three emails saying you know this is what's
going on make sure you apply yeah that's awesome so look a lot of the installers
out there I've said this before this is a great course for you um it's it would
be free course and it's like uh 15,600 bucks uh to do so I believe maybe
even a little bit more and um so it's it's an awesome awesome course it can
benefit you greatly and you may not be on the email drip from the FC if you're not get involved here at the Huddle go
through the you know our our Link in our descriptions it'll be on our all of the socials and uh like I said the show
notes so that being said what are we talking about when we
say uh you know you're worth Char charge what you're worth and and I posed the
question that I think that um you got to understand first what is what what is
what is it that the consumer and that the stores you may work with value I would I mentioned the five that
that we see valuable at go Carrera and I see super valuable at the flooring company that I own which is
professionalism attitude punctuality dependability and exceptional quality
now these are all skills being on time being where you say you're going to be
when you say you're going to be there being a professional these all take skills I was not very polished when I
was 20 I was thinking the same thing like like man yeah these are skills that you learn
over time uh whether it's expanding your venacular your your your verbage
um I love that word actually vacular uh whether it's whether it's
just presenting yourself in a more professional manner uh even when we are dressed in our our installation gear we
can be professional I have plenty of examples of that these guys have plenty
of examples of installers Who present themselves professionally um not just
appearance-wise that's part of it you know look like you took a shower and you did your hair uh and then SM like it too
smell like it too and smell like it too uh but also it's it's how you interact
with the with your customer with your and sometimes it's your customer's customer so your store's customer so if
you're at someone's house and you're doing a job for a retailer understanding how to interact with a
homeowner is a skill set that you need to learn that is valuable to
companies I can tell you one of the highest paying jobs in floring uh albeit
not one that I enjoyed I'm just telling you from a a a overarching comment here
is residential replacement you got to move furniture well you get paid to move it at good stores you're going to get
paid well to move the furniture okay work for good stores uh but you're
going to get paid well to to move furniture the store if you're a professional with them they're likely
going to have your back if you get one of them homeowners that say he scratched
my bed post and the scratch is 15 years old you know like that kind of stuff um
that happens in the retail residential replacement but it it's also one of the paid per unit or per yard per square
foot um that's out there so understand who you're working for and
what they see valuable in you I mean what do you guys see that's most valuable in uh in an installer crew
well I'm gonna have to go back to like the evolution of of how we became who we
are and how it happened is through Tri and error right like learning from everyone else's mistakes now now granted
I didn't have the luxury of experiencing a whole lot of uh residential um in the
beginning uh right because only one of the gentlemen did residential other one was just straight commercial but
it it was a matter of slowly Reinventing myself as I got older and progressed and
realizing you you need you need to be relatable to everyone to to create value
um from a visual perspective the the education professionalism
professionalism yeah 100% I went from cut off uh sleeves and jeans with holes
and that hung over my shoes uh no belt I know I always wore belt but to uh
wearing presentable jeans and sleeves all the time and you know and it it
wasn't well part of this I I hate to interrupt you but part of this is you didn't neither none of us probably got
the best start what we're trying to change in this industry is creating companies where uh the installation is
valued and that you give your guys the tools to be able to do this like we give a you know all of our guys get free
shirts anytime they want them they just grab them out of the Supply Closet grab them anytime keep your stuff looking
good do you know presentable wise uh talking to them about how to interact
with the subcon or with the superintendent on projects and working with other trades uh those are all skill
sets if if we as Co today's companies how are you bringing along the people
like what do you see valuable and then how are you bringing them along your and
mine and uh probably even Daniel's um initial um entrance and experience in
this industry probably wasn't a a great measuring stick if I'm
guessing right through our conversations little rough neish right like very very uh Rough Around the Edges
there but I think the when we started creating the value it just came from
being put in situations where we had to make a decision to go left or go right and then it started making us realize
that we had to create um a level of profession ISM that was Universal not
towards commercial towards residential towards one demographic or the other it was more of a universal thing and that's
where uh the visual value started coming in the behind the scenes value started getting created when we experienc
failures and started questioning what we're doing and why we're doing it and
and how come we're doing it in a manner that someone who doesn't install is
telling us to do it um you know and that's where the behind the scenes education portion came from and we
didn't understand the whole charge what you're worth at the beginning we were just trying to get our foot in the door
and that's what I dislike about the groups and there's you know constantly
people in there talking about you know what what do you guys charge for this what do you charge for that and then
instead of just giving them a straight answer everyone's like you don't know what to charge yeah if you don't know
what to charge don't do it like everyone started from somewhere guys like yeah and and that's crappy to say anyway I
mean at the end of the day you you you I hope we're starting to influence
installers to consider your cost we went over this a on a few podcasts consider
what your costs are to do a job and then what you need to bring home what you desire I should say to bring home and
consider taxes and then charge accordingly based off of your uh your
skill now what I'm saying you may you may not be that fast so you feel like
you have to charge more but are if your quality is there and your your skill sets there um maybe you can the point is
is like everybody should charge what they think is uh appropriate for
themselves and uh so just building on that it sounds like you know when
somebody says how much should I charge or what do you charge for this that's hard it's a hard question to answer uh I
don't think they should answer it in that manner but it's certainly hard to say well I charge uh you know you should
charge $7 a square foot well you got another guy on there I like the if if an
answer was I've I'm I'm C to preface this I'm certified in ceramic toich
issues uh through ctef um and I've been installing I'm a
journeyman installer out of this place and I've been doing it for 20 years and I charge $12 a square foot at least you
have some context to how much you're charging and why really good way to approach that yeah because you you have
to look at someone's their accolades yeah because like the what we charge for sheet vinyl
is gonna be way different than what someone else charges because we've done it to the point where we've mastered it
and can I get things done a lot faster yeah but it took me you know 20 years to get to that point so yeah I mean so
maybe I don't get it done faster maybe it takes me a little longer but it's still going to look way better and I know it's going to be done right
and that that's what I'm charging for I'm not charging because someone told me hey we're paying $9 a yard for sheet
vinyl because we've been told that before and it's like sorry about your
bad luck you can go find someone else that'll do it for that yeah we're paying $9 a yard well I'm charging 18 or I'm
charging 33 or whatever there was it's job specific right and honestly there
was one of the companies around here they were like we got this sheep Vino we need it done uh they were like send us
the information they came back at like I think it was $8 a yard and this was this was like five six
years ago probably and that's exactly what we told him we said we don't we're not going to touch it for less than
18 yeah and yeah that's that's to specific to our area right like every
region is slightly different based off of cost of living so everyone in the hes don't take that with a if if it's uh
that's the upper or lower range of what you guys are getting paid and the reason why I'm saying this is because I know
what it's worth right I know it's also Supply demand driven like if there's if
you're in an area that has 15 which I I I'd love to know where this area is if
it exists but like 15 or 20 like top level in uh sheet viny installers then
you know the price might be a little bit cheaper but that's a supply demand metric that will vary um you know in our
area it pays it pays between you know probably 15 to 18 and sometimes a little
bit more uh not much I I don't recall in recent time that it's been less but we
also pay the lineal foot on Cove and the per a lot of times if there's too many
boots then we'll pay per boot that kind of thing um and per lineal foot on heat
welding and all this so really what it boils down to is knowing what your worth
is I think that's the key you know yes and it's and um I think I put on there
is um how do it how do it assess one's uh individual's value right like your value
where you where you want to be at where do you have to be at you know where when how much money is your daily expenses
and your daily operating cost um where does that put you in order for you to be in the green because that's you want to
be in the green um and you have to assess that and a lot of a lot of
the the square footage and aage we've come up with is based off of where we
got to be in the green create an hourly rate that equates that per day divide it
into the square footage square yardage find a good median average it out and then try to use that as your control and
go up and down from there um yeah and if you're just like if you're younger in in a given discipline or or in the trade
you may have to take some work to prove yourself but that's just business like I had to take work you know early on maybe
a little cheaper than I wanted to you don't want to lose money ever but still
maybe not make what I wanted but what I needed and do doing that so that I could
prove myself that I could prove that I I do great work again I if if you're doing
work over go carera you walk into a shop with that proof If you have done work
across the network and gotten some Kudos and gotten this stuff and uh by the way for everybody we're getting ready
release a profile upgrade that's going to really um like really increase the
value of your profile it's going to look incredible um and companies will really
get that Insight that they th they they really starve for so but that
aside point is if you are a little uh newer to the um installation industry or
maybe you're trying your hand at sheet vinyl and you you've been a carpet installer and you went through some courses and now you want to start doing
sheet vinyl because your area is paying well you may have to take on some work
at a little less rate to prove yourself but hey at the end of the day once you've done that you get in the position
like you guys are where hey man quality first I assume that that was always your
first thing was quality and then you got speed later is that right Daniel is that kind of how you approached it it and
it's we don't even call it speed right it's efficiency it's getting more efficient at it so with
efficiency comes the speed so we're not we don't go and and be like yeah we're the fastest no we're the most efficient
yeah and and that efficiency long term uh is the long-term value that that we offer that separates us right like
someone can be really fast and get the room done really fast but every time you got to go visit that project to fix a
punch list every time you got to go back to fix Bas that's curling off to fix flash go that's bubbling up to fix a
seam right you now now you're you're you're taking time out of your day and you're going back where do you cost go
up yeah cost go up so we try to incorporate all of our knowledge and our
experiences that so we don't have you have to take it you that that one project at a time because if this
project goes a certain way then you look at the numbers and you're like man like we got to up it like there is no
question about it because uh Paul from the UK is he says he's doing some
Herring bone uh carine product and since he's from
the UK he says he's getting 10 pounds a meter which I don't know what the
anybody got a a calculator right but at some point you have to look at
your your clients too right like if you're working for a store sometimes Maybe that's not the
right store for you and you have to start looking somewhere else I mean there's been plenty of times
where where we did that and it's like sometimes you have to fire your clients
because it's just not worth it they they don't have the same values as you if
you're you're you know pushing out all this exceptional quality work and they're just not paying you for it even
you know you time and time again conversation um the yeah if you can't
lead them to water yeah um you know the the other the other guys the other you
know stores that we worked for we talked to them about it and they were like you know what you're right it it has been a
while and it and they'll apologize you know what I'm sorry like time gets away from me I don't realize it and I've been
going in at the same numbers so let let us know where we need to be so that way we when we're bidding it's a it's a
constant Evolution too like you raise it a quarter and then once you get that job then the next project you raise it
another quarter and it's constantly you know little bit at a time baby steps right I like uh from the
office Kevin once said many small time make big time and
it's say that about everything I do want to go back uh to something you had
mentioned about the we were talking about how to equate the the rates and you mentioned about doing a project
sometimes you got to get your foot in the door do a project um if if I told you that my long-term
goal and on a couple projects was to create value um like we talk like dude
that's not even nowhere near enough money for this project they had three people say they can't do it that is
impossible it would look really good on our resume and some of those are investments
right like some of those projects we we took were Investments because we knew that afterwards it would create more
value right is something that we can say hey this is what we're capable of doing and it it gave us more value too so some
of those jobs you guys out there like you gota look at it like that too like yeah well make big money on this but
what can it do for me long term have you guys ever had somebody say well it only
took you three days to do that I mean yep I should get a discount or something
or whatever and I'm like we bought our machine our demo machine what I mean because I'm more efficient and better
and faster than you expected you want pay me less because I'm better that makes no sense as soon as we our demo
machine that's what happened and I'm not gonna lie dude I steamed up right away I
mean I was upset but I was I was able to maintain my composure and uh I was
like well the best comeback is always you know you're not paying for the job
you're not paying me to just lay sheep on you're paying me for the 10 to 15 years that it took for me to learn and
be as good and as efficient and as quality as I am you're not paying for
today you're paying for the 15 years it took me to get as good as I am today and
that is there's a lot of Truth to that because they can for sure go hire anyone off the street to go do that and they
can mess it up real quick especially it doesn't what type of flooring but especially sheet vinyl yeah
yeah I've I've had that problem I think I shared the podcast one other time and it hurts so bad I'm not going to share
it again yeah that's um so I mean so identifying the value
like the value prop and what what people are Desiring the biggest thing is actually keeping track of your projects
and knowing exactly what you're making right because you can you can say yeah I made this much on
this project but what's your profitability on that like we it it
doesn't matter if if you made this much and then you're at a break even point
that that dollar amount is irrelevant how much did you actually make on it because we're we're all in business to
make money right like not for practice we're we're there to to have money in the bank because we all know that any
construction that you're in is going to have a slow time and you have to plan for that so make sure you have that
profit everyone has overhead whether you think you do or not your vehicle is a
part of your overhead fuel maintenance your your house that
you use as your office like all that stuff matters and you know I I think that
um also remembering and and I keep harping on what people value because you
know I've I've had really really good installers uh that I've worked with and
partnered with on projects that have a shitty attitude and are hard to deal with and I've I've quit using them I
mean if you're going to make my life so hard and and throw up these these
problems all the time without any solutions um that gets exhausting and
your quality can be secondary at that point so quality is probably if I had to
say what's most important it's always quality but outside that your attitude and how you deal with people and
realizing we're all humans just trying to get a job done and we all have these
uh external pressures on us to get a job done you know quicker quicker quicker um
and unfortunately that's just how construction is so I don't care if you're an electrician or a flooring guy
that's just how construction is so quality is first but also give care
about your client care about the store you're working for care about making them look great one of the Great great
Prides I had was when my when I was working by the hours when my company would tell me my cost on that job and if
I had a a low installation cost and um
you know that that I was proud that I was making my company money uh I'm I
still feel like that's a a valuable um characteristic to have as an installer
is be proud that your company that you're working for is making money or
that if you're working directly with homeowners that you're improving their lifestyle because they're going to go on
your new floor they're going to take showers in your new tile tile shower they're going to be looking at it all
the time knowing you know thinking in their mind how beautiful it is like you are providing it a tremendous value um
so just remember that when you present yourself and don't ruin your great quality with a shitty attitude that's
what I'm saying yeah 100% And and um one thing too for for creating value is uh
consistency um that that helps create value for for individuals and what you
just said too about the hours um when when I worked for a company hourly too they would they would put uh estimated
hours for a project right and that was for them to be profitable that was a challenge to me
always a challenge oh we have you know 120 hours on this job I got this many
people this many days let me see what I can do to beat that and I would track all that um I wish my
company would have been that sophisticated to tell me what they or or care enough to tell me they just come
tell me what my job C afterwards they tell me but I would uh I would have that that goal on there and you know recently
I started trying to put that in our work orders but as soon as I started doing that it just it just seemed like that
number didn't make nobody paid attention to it hours exceeded that like these are the hours we need for us to be
profitable right if we're here or below we're profitable uh we're above this then we start chipping away at uh at
margins and uh yeah soon as I start putting on there margins start chipping away past
oh 80 hours yeah I think that's why companies may not do that some some some people I mean just to be you know
transparent and honest here you know some people are going to look at that and say well I've got this many hours to
do it and that's how long it's going to take me to do it and don't desire to beat that uh don't see that as a
challenge but uh the ones who see it as a challenge like yourself look at what
you've done I mean that's I I wish I could impart some of you guys into some
of these characteristics that come out in the podcast and like implant them
into some of the installation uh people that we've dealt with over the years uh
you know that there's a lot of similarities from from start to finish there's a ton and um work ethic is work
ethic no matter what right values are values no matter what um Integrity is
integrity right like there's there's not oh you know today I'm not gonna be that
no Integrity is is is a it's a character trait it's a character trait and and had
it since day one and I think that's where the value um for for myself started being creative is when I worked
for someone else I represented them the best possible way right because not only
was I representing the company that I worked for I was still representing myself right
I yeah but you know I mean we always represent ourselves and and I think that's important for people to realize
but be okay representing your company in a positive manner like that that don't
just be okay strive for that I think that that is just uh an aspect that you
know especially when you're if you're dealing with a lot of subcontractors um you know them wanting
their the accolades of a good project to go to them and not to the company they
they work for well we get the same thing no one walks into my commercial even if
the sheet vinyl is so beautiful no one walks in there and says hey who was the flooring contractor on this they say who
was the designer who was your architect who was your Builder they get all the accolades that we put all the hard work
in I appreciate that I'm glad they get that because if they're feeling getting
that positive feedback they know I did the job they know I'm a big portion of why they're getting those accolades I'm
GNA get more work from that client I'm GNA get more work from that GC because they know that so it's okay is my point
yes Kendall Kendall says uh he doesn't work hourly but how does a person find a
Fair hourly wage in our field and I think that's that's a loaded
question because there's it's like are you an employee are you working for
yourself you know a lot of what what we talk about is basically based on um you
know self-employed people right because building a business and stuff like that so really in reality you need to figure
out what your target is per year and then break that down
like typically you're working what 240 hours 280 hours without any vacation or
anything so how much do you need to make a year divided by that number that's how much
you should be at hourly at least yeah and it that's a tough
question because all the qualifications come in behind it yes you know um
so um I would say and and it also greatly varies by your
demographic area or your geographic area so if you're in um you know
California and if you're in Orange County your your hourly rate is going to be much higher than Witchita
Kansas it just is I mean you still buy a house you can still buy a house here for
150,000 bucks you can't buy a house in Orange County for 150 you can't buy a container house in Orange County for 150
when we were in for at foro what you know there was a bunch of guys from uh New York there and they were like if
we're not making over a hundred grand a year like we're we can't live in New
York he said my taxes on my house are like $26,000 a
year yeah see that's the thing like I think I'm I we're in a higher taxed area where I live and my my property taxes on
our house is like $5,000 and I'm like oh my God 26,000 but
that's the point is it it matters where you're at but I would say that's why
your calculation Daniel has to come in like you you got to find out where your bottom dollar is and then start stacking
okay if I have to make this uh I bring extra value because I am foro
certified I am you know XYZ XYZ whatever
I'm also you know been to four different trainings on proper uh floor prep and uh
or if you're in the tile world and I'm I'm laminam certified and and uh you
know slim line certified in the gauge porcelain panels or or whatever uh you
can stack those on and say okay well I need to make 42 bucks an hour I live in
you know this area and and that's what it calls for you know if you're here in
witto and you make you know in the mid to high 30s you're you're you're really
good and you and that's about what the pay is for a a quality in a high quality
installer um I know down in Texas if you catch if you can find it's
kind of like a unicorn but if you can find an hourly installer down there no they're down there but the vast majority
of Texas is Subs um in fact the vast majority of the United States if you
take the whole amount is 80 the statistics say 87% of all flooring
you've walked across is installed by Subs so you know um but if if you were down
in you know a certain part of Texas you might you might be at 28 bucks an hour I
I don't know all the different ranges of the different are is on an hourly basis but um if kind of that midline I would
say if you're a high quality installer is at 25 to
$35 I know that's a big window but somewhere in there is probably you know
but that's it changes by Geographic so much it's hard to like put to to really
answer that right then once you start getting to the employees too you have to start looking at you know the entire
package the package as a whole you know um what is provided what don't you need to buy Health Care great great point I
mean yeah so consider that I mean we provide Health Care to our to our uh
installers just like we do for our office staff we don't treat anybody different we all have the same benefits
um so you know that's a if if you don't know health care costs are very very
expensive so take that into account yeah like yeah our ours went up
8.4% we got so lucky this year ours is up just under four but still up we we
um most companies like 14% most companies were more like La
were more like last year maybe we took the hit last year and didn't take it this year but uh I know a lot of
companies that are up 12 to 20% this year so Healthcare all those benefits
are do you have a vehicle provided is your gas covered do you drive the vehicle home do you pick the vehicle up
at the office every day all these things need to be considered when you're thinking about your overall compensation
package with a company but I don't know that that helped Kevin at all but um just kind of a it it was Kevin right did
I say that right Kendall Kendall sorry I don't know if that answered Kendall's uh question but I I know it's uh gave him a
lot more to think about I could tell you that because because it's a loaded question uh Kendall
like good luck you know just just I all I will say
is that if you're wrong on the price and you have an introductory uh um or hourly
rate just remember you can always go up but as soon as you tell someone sorry you're not worth what you said I'm gonna
take you down here you can pretty much kiss them goodbye right nobody wants to go back so figure out a game plan that
works for you um and maybe do like a probationary period
saying sounded like he was a sub uh maybe not a direct question for himself
but as a Guiding Light for maybe he's looking to hire someone what I always
say if you're on the employer side is you know
there's once you've considered the whole uh value of that installer it's hard to
know until you've worked for a little a little bit of time so we have this period of 60 to 90 days where we're
going to set you at this and then after that we're going to adjust and it's going to be based on these five metrics
that I've mentioned you know professional attitude punctuality dependability and your quality now that
doesn't mean you have to be a full-fledged installer if you're just getting into it you can be a quality
helper like you can be a quality Apprentice you know care about the the
way that things are done uh and do the job duties that you have in a quality manner uh all that to me is is is how
after 90 days then we'll set the person at where we believe um all the from
those metrics how they uh the value that they provide to us and thus the value we provide to the marketplace and thus the
directly uh affects the amount of money that we can charge and so that make yourself as valuable as possible and you
won't even have to worry about about it you know I've been seeing a lot of these um Tik toks come across and you know
this dude is talking about how PE just people are these days when they're just like they think that just by showing up
they're worth so much more you know I'm here every day I should be making this much but they're not providing any value
to you know they're not trying to learn they're just you can like he'll say all the time I can show up every day and not
do anything and think that I'm worth more but it's what are you doing to add value and that goes for being an
employee and being you know a contractor in general and and knowing what you're
worth it's what value are you providing to the clients so that way they know
that you're worth this much yeah um I've had it told to me and
I like this uh analogy but it's like a parking a paid parking spot it's only valuable if someone's using it like if
it's useful right otherwise it's just sitting there and it's it's costing whoever it is so if you're like a p an
empty parking spot meaning you're not providing any additional value but you're there then you're you're actually
going to probably cost your employer money so be valuable like I don't know
where that whole you know well the pendulum will swing the other way but I
don't know where this whole thought process came to be like you have to provide value to the marketplace
and whether you're employee we're in the information age right and everything is
blasted out on social media everywhere and I see a bunch of stuff about you know people bragging about how they go
to work and they don't do anything all day and you know it's like it's a flex to them that they don't
do anything at work all day and then their employer has to pay them like yeah
like like that's a I don't know I I'm I'm a value-driven person
I place my own worth on on producing and
doing things and and providing value whether it's to my family or to my
friends or to my colleagues or to the marketplace I I don't doing as little as
possible and expecting as much as possible is just stay away if you're
that type of person uh you're not my kind of guy I mean I mean I could lose
some friends over that one maybe but at the end of the day that's true I'm just telling you right up if you think that
if you're that type of person that thinks I'm going to do as little as possible and expect as much as as
humanly possible you're just you're not my type of person right and this goes back to the conversation I mean it's
been probably on a few podcasts now where you know when I was not too too deep into the the trade
and I'm telling him I'm like I'm not I don't want to do this like they're only
paying me this much and he's like well that's why they're only paying you this much because you feel like you're you're
not getting paid enough so you're not wanting to do anything so it's like provide that value then get the
residuals it's not the other way around it's not give me this much money and then I'll start doing something yeah
like people need to just change their mindsets and it's hard to talk to people with that mindset because they don't
understand yeah um I always had this thing where and I I probably get it from my mother and a few of my uncles growing
up it's don't ask for for for handouts if you're not putting in the word right
like show make it hard for them to tell you no make it hard for them to not see
the value and if you do offer the value and you create value within yourself and you approach them and they say I'm sorry
we don't see it think guess what it's time for you to move on but don't don't be delusional either
right like don't don't don't create this facade where the trophy by participation
thing uh where your value is up here because you you just wanted to be up
there but you're not really showing the work The Parking Spot well that's that's probably part of just the Social Media
stuff I mean we all use it or or consume some stuff off social media but the the
truth is is that a lot of times it it glorifies this idea of not doing much and getting a lot uh there's more
get-rich quick schemes than ever I mean they've always been around and they've always attracted people so they've
always stayed around but those get-rich quick schemes are that mentality like
I'm going to do as little as possible and get paid as much as possible now I'm not saying you can't
take advantage of things there's investment opportunities in the world that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about what you personally
provide to the marketplace or to your employer pseudo the marketplace uh is is
your value and you can't um you know the higher you the more skill you acquire
the better um you present yourself the more effective you are the more uh
Pleasant you are the more you're going to the more you're going to be worth
that that the math is math to me that to me this is like mathematics and
uh this idea that you know a a lot for a little it never works longterm it never
works and so you know you want to be careful if you're in that mindset um I
don't know that we got off track we just went really deep on what the value of
you what your value is and and understanding um you know that that's a
big part what you're providing uh to you know charging what you're worth that
being said if you are high value and you're working for someone who's trying
to bust you down um and not pay you what
you know you're worth what are some tricks uh we kind of touched on some of those early on in this uh podcast but
what what is some of your guys' thoughts there I mean this everything goes back to communication right you're the people
don't know unless you say something and it all it all has to start with that conversation we have to go to you know
whoever we're doing work for and and say sometimes it's like uh you know we we do
one job and then the next job and they're like how is this so much more and it's like man I did the math and I
didn't make any money last time so I'm I'm I'm sorry but I got to charge you more right like it's it's just that that
Natural Evolution it's the same thing if if you're an employee it's like don't
don't go and and demand stuff it's like hey I think that I'm worth a little bit
more what can we do in order to get to this place what what it's not even what
can we do is what what can I do to provide more value to you what do you need me to do in order to be able to
make this is where I want to be where do I need to get from this point to this point you know what he just made me
think of this right here too and this I'm gonna go back to beginning of the football season with my son we were
missing practices because we had overlap baseball and he said you know he's been practicing hard he wanted to get more
playing time but he wasn't getting the playing time beginning of the season and uh I told him go talk to the coach hey
coach what can I do to present more value to the team so that way that way I
can be on the field a little bit more where am I where am I falling short
right that was the that was dude the coach came up to me afterwards in tears like I've never had a 10-year-old ask me
that that's phen and that's great guidance by you from
you by the way like I I didn't want to do it for him I needed him to do it and step up right he needed figure it out
for himself and it needed to be authentic from him and um it worked he says well you're missing
practices and this and he's like well we already told you know so and so we were gonna miss because I have baseball but
you know what can I work on afterwards when I'm here and dude like from then on it was just like totally different
and and that's what like Daniel said communication I if no one comes and talks to me here in the office when they
have a chance I don't know right I don't I don't know um and if someone has uh if
someone's in a position where they feel that they are more valuable come and talk say hey this is why I'm more
valuable show me like bring show me hey this is what I've been tracking this is this is what I bring to the table this
is what I would like to do this is where I would like to be okay and then just be
ready to have a discussion right like all right well this is what I see so
let's work on this I don't have a problem like I love your plan like I love it I want to pay you more money
because you're making making the company more money so let's be better together right let's figure this out and a lot of
times that's what's gonna happen um I I I think that uh I there is a ton of
great information that's come out here I hope everybody uh grabbed a few nuggets on you know increasing your value so um
you know you can charge what you're worth um frankly you can charge what you're worth but the the higher your
value the more you can charge period I don't care whether you're hourly or something
um and I I can really appreciate how going to you and communicating and
asking like hey hey man I want to go up I'd like to get an increase in Pay what
kind of things do I need to do to increase my pay that that if if people do that or if
a sub comes to the to the store owner and says or whoever runs the work and says hey you know I need to increase my
prices what can I do to provide more value to you that would help you feel good about that maybe it's as simple as
like hey man if you clean up your job site a little bit better where I don't always have to sence someone behind you
it could be something simple uh so communication it seems to come up on every topic but communication is a piece
of this and then don't be scared to ask for what you're worth when you are when you when you have a full understanding
of what that is yeah 100% yeah 100 well
I I don't know how an hour went so fast uh I I know it's been a minute since I
feel like a huddle went this quickly but uh I hope everybody got some value out of this I want to reiterate here before
we um uh part the twoe course here in Witchita Daniel do you uh recall your
the one up in Michigan again it was in February I think I still have it pulled up uh so December 4th through the 15th
is in Witchita it's a two-e course it's free and again I'm just going to go ahead and share this for the the last
little bit uh this QR code uh this the one in Jennison Michigan in February
is by you sharing your screen it took me off oh it is February 5th through
16th and I post that that link from that QR code right on the the live feed so I
I shared the huddles live feed um and I I posted in the comments on I might yeah
Ash if you'll share this in our socials and on our uh in our description on the Huddle that would be excellent as well
get to that uh and the last reminder is the Sim uh scholarship make sure to
apply I hope I wish everybody the best it's always fun honestly I say always
last year was our first year but it was a really fun experience to to give that away and somebody wins something like
that and be so appreciative so um you know put your name in the Hat it doesn't
matter if you're in the office or out in the field uh you'll find Value in that course and and this twoe course if
you're new you're going to find a lot of value in that I promise you at least on the Witchita one and I'm sure the same
is in Michigan but I know the trainers these guys are good and they're going to
understand kind of what they'll watch you over that two weeks they're going to know what you're kind of gravitating
towards and and help you get better and and prepare you for the the marketplace
um and uh if you're in witch I'll hire you so they got a pretty good setup there too so it's it's it's nice yeah
pretty impressive yeah all right gentlemen well as always uh I super
appreciate the conversation it's it's it's uh it's been fun went by fast but
uh you know like they do when you get into a role so I hope you guys have a great Thanksgiving Thanksgiving to every
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone you know enjoy some time with family turkey I'm not going to Turkey
are you off turkey uh Daniel one of one of the guys here my partner at go carera
said I cook steak every year I like I like one year we did tacos one year I
think I did a prime rib but I don't eat any of the turkey I'll be honest like
I've been over that for a very long time my sister I don't know why there's something nostalgic to it for me um you
may not most people don't know my background but growing up we didn't really celebrate that kind of thing when
I was a little kid it wasn't until I was a teenager that uh unfortunately my parents got divorced and and remarried
and my dad's new wife was all about these holidays and so it was like my
first uh it was the traditional turkey maybe a spiral ham it something
nostalgic about turkey for me I really love uh that this time of year so maybe
it's just family so hang out with yours and enjoy it huh we have it we have there all the time I'm just saying I
don't need it yeah yeah I hear you all right guys thank you sir we will talk to you
uh a little bit later and Ashlin if you could cut us
out