The Huddle - Episode 88 - Across the Pond ft Tom Cockerill and Joni Reeves

The guys are thrilled to welcome Tom Cockerill from the UK Flooring Podcast https://theukflooringpodcast.co.uk and Joni Reeves from Floor Design Studio https://thefloordesignstudio.co.uk . Together, we'll bridge the Atlantic to share and compare the universal challenges and triumphs in the world of flooring. Despite the miles between us, professionals in both the UK and the US navigate similar hurdles—from client education and material selection to installation intricacies. Join us as we uncover the shared experiences that unite us, offering insights and solutions that transcend geographical boundaries. Tune in to discover how, in the realm of flooring, we're more alike than different.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up huddle crew the Huddle is your your tribe for maintaining forward

progress in your flooring career it's your weekly Playbook to help M uh

Advance your your knowledge Advance your best business practices and and uh you

know let so you know if you like that kind of activity if you're in flooring

and you want to um you know learn how to uh transform this industry you know this

is your place that was my best attempt that was a terrible opening guys thank you so much for bearing with me on

that don't know if 25 seconds to uh prep for that uh just got off a plane from

Phoenix and jumped into my office and here we are so uh made it you guys know the the

standard here big vat that's better known as I put his name ason

I just that's when I just looked at the screen I'm like why this dude man we got Daniel uh Gonzalez both with preferred

flooring up in Grand Rapids Michigan we got Johnny and Tom both from the UK

welcome fellas happy to have you here with us here hi guys thanks for having

us thank having us for sure thanks for being here today we're going to you know

just wrap about flooring um we're it's kind of a a conversation I

always think of a few guys sitting around a fire having a few drinks and and it always ends up if you're in

flooring it always ends up there anyway so we're just going to talk about it now so uh we're g to talk about business

approaches different ways you guys handle things there in the UK um some installation techniques I

know there's some different uh different approaches there and then the different van vs which I think will be kind of fun

so I'm going to kick this off with some introductions uh I'm Paul Stewart I'm

the founder and CEO of go Carrera um I'm also the president of Stuart and

Associates commercial flooring a commercial floor covering company in witch Kansas Jose Gonzalez kicking off

brother tell us about you a little bit uh my name is Jose Gonzalez uh I am

co-founder of preferred flooring out in Grand Rapids Michigan uh we are a primarily a commercial installation

outfit uh been full service in the commercial industry for about five years now uh and uh we dabble in residential

but I wouldn't say that's our primary uh uh go-to uh Silo to uh to work down but

we do our best it's more organic awesome I am no longer an installer on the floor fulltime so I am

uh what do they refer to as a office uh be I'm gonna let Paul be the first your

computer jocky something like that hey Joan uh Johnny won't you tell

us a bit about yourself I'm kind of going around as the screen here no well

um my name is Johnny Reeves uh I'm co-founder and director of the Flor Design Studio in northern England North

Yorkshire um I I'm still installing I've been installing 24 years I I install

anything and everything that goes on the back of my van by store and tiles um and

we at the for design studio and now i' class as more as a contracting business

we Supply and sell our own products however we are our primary focus is

installation um and my uh my opinion on the UK Market is that's where the

Market's shifting and where the money is going to be is an installation so that's where our focus is woo I hope you're

right you hear that boys yeah the money's an installation so if you're joining us today and watching

this I I tend to believe the same thing here in the US is we can get our act together so Daniel I'm the other half of

preferred flooring he pretty much gave you the whole history of us so I think I'm good there all right Tom tell us a

bit about you man whole history not the whole history yeah Tom cochrell Darlington uh

England so we own a training and mentoring business cochr and core um with my wife Sarah cochrell so we train

any of one thing from small contractors to multi7 figure retailers uh we also

Now train manufacturers um on all things business related nothing to do with the

install side all all business side um also co-founder of Truth digital which is a digital marketing agency for the

flowing industry in the UK and I also still do own a micro contractor that

only installs hardwood that's uh the short version all

right well that's a there's a lot to dive in there um so let's start with a

little bit of the training what kind of training uh business training you guys

specialize in so our Flagship course is called floring freedom and we go through

every element of running a flooring U at the moment retail business or

contracting business U we still not too much into commercial so we cover

everything from cash flow recruitment um mindset performance um Marketing sales

all of those elements um we cover in an intensive two-day course and that's sort of a really our way to start working

with us uh and if we want to work with you obviously it's a two-way two-way thing um and then from there we have a

mentoring program that contractors and retailers would enter into a 12 month

program so that's that's um but we we want to be sure that we want to work

with the individual and the individual wants to work with us so the best ways spending two days in tense um at our

training center so we've got a purpose-built training facility um as I said there is no hammers no knives

anything like that it is tables and chairs and big screens so it's some sometimes people get confused that we're

going to teach people how to lay things and we're certainly not going to do that so it's uh well the business side is uh

I we talk about it a lot and Daniel looks like he's got something to say about this but we talk about you know a

lot of the technical guys here in the US they know what they're doing from a technical perspective and they really

need that guidance in the in the business side so kudos for that that's what I was going to say like over here

that's one of the things that's lacking is the business side of things we just all focus on the installation and then

the training on the install side it's like no man like if you want to be a successful business owner that's what

you got to do you got to you you said something about you know training the mindset that's awesome it's it is it's a

mindset shift to be able to to run a business like that and and not just get

money spend money yeah so how do you how do you approach that mindset and Johnny

I'd love to get your it sounds like you're you have some success right before the podcast we were talking about

some of your uh some of your talents um but I'd like to get both of your take on that like what is the mindset um your

your your ideal client let's say and then Johnny what what do you think is

the the keys to success for you know a successful flooring installer maybe

maybe they sell some materials maybe they don't but um what what do you guys

you know what is the typical your ideal client there Tom and then Johnny if you can just piggyback off Tom's comments on

what you see so from the training side it's going to I want to say it's going to sound awful but um let's stick with a carpet

installer with a mindset they can only achieve x amount so if that's 5 pound a

square meter or square yard or whatever they figure that they've got a mindset I think the ideal client for us is someone

that is preparing to change that mindset and realizes they can get what they feel they worth and changing that mindset

from writing the quotation out going into the client's house selling in this shop environment and I've had many let's

say friendly heated debate about me saying your price needs to be another

20% more than you've been charging for the last 10 years and they swear that

they I'm wrong and then they go away from the C they implement it ring me two weeks

later and said it works and I'm like I know but it's just it's just a mindset

shift it's not a massive upskilling it's not that they're a better installer it's not it's just shifting that mindset that

this isn't the income level that you know some people may be already on that some people wait under that but they get

this mindset they might lose the work they might not get the next job um and

it's like Panic you can see panic in their eyes and that that's even though

it sounds a little bit cruel that that's a perfect client but our biggest success is when that mindset shifts to this is

achievable you can achieve more um revenue and more net profit um for your

you know for your family and go and your your team you know that's that's that's why it's ideal that people are prepared

to learn is probably the ideal client someone that's prepared to look at different perspectives uh and not be

tunnel vision I think mainly the reason why I built a flowing business well into the seven figures

with a mindset of I was right and for 10 years I wasn't um you know and it

probably got to sort of year 134 thinking I've reached as much as I can

give but this isn't good enough we're still not doing X and still not y then I started listening so I'm coming from an

era of I was probably my worst type of client myself and then I've g a personal

journey to absorb from other people's experiences and listen more not tell um

so that's that's that's where I've got the perspective of our ideal client it's probably what I used to

be nice I think as well Tom with with regarding your business I think one of the key elements that you bring to the

table is um you highlight the um the business side of the floring industry is

a separate skill to the installation now one thing that I find I've found

throughout the peers is they think the cost they can lay flaws exceptionally well that mean and they can run jobs

that means that when they go on their own they'll have a successful business uh and it's a different skill set a

completely different skill set and what you do highlights and trains them in that and it opens rise to the fact that

that is the case that's my input on your piece anyway mate yeah that their business

side um also allows you to command a b

uh more money for your for your labor because people like to do business with people they like uh we we have uh some

installer groups down here um that I would

say doesn't pay enough attention to the way they present themselves and um they're great they can

be really good installers but a lot of this when you're talking about clients or even if you're working for commercial

shop like uh like ours it's how well are you at the professionalism side how well

do you present yourself and keep your tools and keep your you know do you have to leave a job site three or four times

to go grab something like how prepared and professional are you uh I know you guys uh Daniel and Jose you guys are

like really um focused on that part of your business like how you guys present

yourself and how your installers present for prefer up in Grand Rapids what's your

take yeah I think it it all goes back to a while ago when uh there was some some

pretty bad things that were happening at a hospital in a night project and our crews were getting blamed for some

missing items and uh he the gentleman head of security brought to our attention you don't have your company

logo on your employees if you're not willing to put your brand on them why should I be willing to let them work in

my facility and that right there like made me realize and that it connected

all the dots for me from from when I started till that point where he's right we're not uniformed we we we don't look

professional we look like you know a throw together gang uh coming to do some

floors right like from all walks of the world and then we came together and that's exactly what it looked like but

once um I think it only took a matter of a few days for me to get at least all matching shirts for everyone and then

and then jackets as well uh and if I told you that there wasn't a

difference between the way that we were approached by clients or potential clients uh based off of how uniform or

if we were uniformed or not I would be lying to you guys like the

level it made a difference in your business when you started like uh doubling down on the professional image

as well as probably uh what about like attitude and the way your guys you know treat clients and things of that nature

yeah I think I think this is a big thing that that I know we struggle with in my area like our installers if they're not

they're the face of your company out there whether they're a sub or you're your your employee installer and

so that was another thing too is it gave us representation right and it's all perception so if someone was perceiving

you more as a professional because of how you carried yourself or how you dressed uh or how you can articulate

yourself then that was her goal that's that's that was the next step because we we already had a reputation for doing

work well but we probably didn't look like our reputations uh had made for us

right so I think we were trying to trying to catch up to our our skill set for the installation portion and then

once once we did that then we just kind of kept growing from there but it is also very important like you just said

to to understand the communication aspect of the business and

we we had to I had to learn a lot growing up because I was uh I was very

rough around the edges when I was younger um but also I had to start recognizing who had the ability to

communicate with our clients versus who should not go talk to them yeah make sure you got the right person in the

right seat so to speak yeah 100% so um Daniel you got anything to add

there I was going to move on after that to like business approaches for for how

you guys operate overseas there now let's talk about what they do over there I'm I'm curious to to learn what uh what

we can Implement over here yeah amen so like your business approaches uh give

you an example we have like retail stores and then we got like Angie's List

or Angie uh as it's known over here which is where uh the the enduser

connects with everything from a plumber to a flooring guy um so the flooring guy

kind of gets his own work uh in those aspects um but a lot of installers work

out of retail shops or retail stores pick up their materials in the morning go to the job that was sold through the

store uh and same very similar situation in commercial you know we sell a project

or win a bid um most of our most of the time in commercial your deliver the

product is already on the job site but outside that it's it's pretty similar and then you're dealing with GC in the

commercial world or a homeowner in the residential um so just that as a framework how do you guys gener how does

the installation world over uh over in your guys neck of the woods generate

business and generate and Market themselves and those kind of things what kind of nuggets can you give us for the

uh audience usually for um you'll tend to

find that they'll subcontract will work for retailers uh they'll get the work via that way commercially they tend to

be for in re in uh retail and domestic

environments tend to be teams of one or two usually ones working on themselves and they subcontracted into retail

Market the commercial ones tend to be in teams of two or three uh and then they'll do the same they'll subcontract

to um the commercial Market um you'll get man in Van who will sell is usually

a man and a an apprentice and will sell his own materials out of his out of the back of a vanify samples usually working

from a client base he's built up over the years he's been subcontracting um you very rarely get

outfits of installers where the actual business is installing where it

subcontracts as a business uh it tends to be very independent um everyone seems

to work for themselves very few retailers employ as well very few um

will employ installers which I think is a massive problem

um Johny the um when we had a retail store we only employed so that's

probably my experience and that's what we still do I want emply too yeah yeah

so it's um so again what we're saying about client experience one thing we do on the training but again I think it's a

very valid point what we give examples of if we all were in a position to buy Ferrari or Bentley we would expect a

certain standard to be served if we all went out to buy such car same if we went

out to a restaurant Sim if we went to a five star hotel we would expect a level of service and I think where the real

value in the UK is is the retailers that have embodied that small Independent high quality service doesn't necessarily

have to be hugely priced but it's about that client experience and as me and

Johnny we you know we employ so everyone would have branded t-shirts everyone in

the store would have the t-shirts the Vans categorically would be signwritten so you experience a endtoend

service and but they are I don't know I don't know what the percentage would be Johnny would you think that that what

probably 30% maximum would be that endtoend employed Allin one service I think

that'd be I think that' be generous I'd say close at 10 uh where the where it's all one um and they sell an employ and

install start to finish i' say it's 10% at Market every everywhere else works on a subcontractor bis from my experience

anyway definitely up where I am well I'll give you some stats for the US

um depending on which um survey or study you read it's between 80 and 87% of all

flooring both re retail and Commercial uh that you walk on is

installed by subcontract independent installers um so we we have similar

situations there um as me as everybody knows I I founded go Carrera to help

with the um transparency into the skill set of the installer uh trying because I

I figure we're not going to I'd love to have nothing but employee installers if I'm honest and Frank but it it's just

not the way that the world is working at the moment nor has it worked for the last about 15 20 years over here so we

have to find a way to um you know make the subcontractor uh give them the tools uh

I say make but you know encourage the subcontractor to get trained encourage them to be more professional as um to

take their career seriously and and and understand that the way that they present themselves is a huge piece of

their business and um you know that what go Carrera was uh formulated for but at

the end of the day it all boils down to if you're selling a service be it your

labor or uh if you're selling product um

the the way that you treat the client and that client's experience has to be Paramount in your mind installers on

here if you're listening it just it has to be at the top of your mind how how

the client's experience is that's how we all get more work that's how our industry starts to heal that's just my

opinion yeah and brand uh branding and uniform that makes unless you're wanting

to never get bigger than yourself as an installer branding in uniform is the

best way of getting bigger like for example my my Lads my Lads all follow the same training we all fit the same

way because like uh laying floors it's not it's not like electrics or Plumbing where it's the right and a wrong way

laying floors is a craft um oh I love that so the the finish that you get is a lot

of the time defined by the individual so uh and that's why that individual will

usually get more work and that's how I've how I've built my reputation is by

the the finish that I get and if I wanted to get past being just me I need

to bring Lads up to get them to that finish to get them to fit the same way I do to get them to um look the same way I

do like myads we've got the same toolbox we got the same tools in the same tool boxes we we as uniform is exactly the

same from shoes pants Tops we've got custommade tool belts that are all the

same they're all branded even my thermos M mug has got me company brand on I

wanted it to be so that what what I used to find when I was subcontracting was

people would ask for me um and I didn't want it that's another reason why I

never put my personal name in my the business I made it a business in its own right I wanted

people to stop asking for the person and ask for the brand um and the brand is

defined by the way it does stuff so then it doesn't matter who turns up as long as someone from that brand turns up the

product and the service is going to be the same regardless and that's how I see expanding forward as an installer

getting just being yourself I gotta say I love this how you how you presented

that we talk about the difference in the trades that like you know there's a right and a wrong way and I I guess I

visualized that really well when you said that you know in electrical there's a right and a wrong way but in flooring

it's there's there's often multiple ways to get to uh to do it right there's not

always one right way um there's certainly a lot of wrong ways to do it

but there's often more than one right way and uh so I love how you said that it takes a real Craftsman to figure fig

that out in the floor prep that you mentioned before we jumped on the call what's your take there Daniel on uh well

first off you know we're in talk vacular but uh for everybody here in the US Lads are like

guys

yeah what's your take Daniel I'm I'm right there with you like

as soon as we started um you know putting everyone in uniforms and stuff like that it's uh becomes a mindset and

we relate everything to being a team right and you can tell that you're on that same team when everyone is wearing

that apparel so once you you start dressing the part and then

um start acting the part it it's it's hard to to move away from that but there's always going to be that room in

in the industry or any industry for that matter for those one-off guys that don't want to do that right because we're even

they can get the even they can brand themselves though right I mean I think what we're talking about here is is like

Johnny said and what you just said is like you know having a consistent visual

a consistent brand when you go out to jobs when you go out to people's homes and and people's

businesses uh a you know this is called the Huddle and uh it's it's kind of

wrapped around Sports which was wrapped around you know everybody wearing the same shirt and and knowing the team and

and owning that that love of the team and I think when you apparel your guys

up like you do Johnny and I know preferred man I've been to your guys' place you guys do the same thing um it

can also like you said change that mindset and create that team atmosphere yeah it makes a it makes a

difference really does make a difference like Johnny said too it U it it creates

uniformity right like it brings everyone together as a company instead of individuals it doesn't uh it's a comfort

thing the the clients or potential clients are looking at it as a comfort we're hiring preferred flooring we're

not hiring ex installer who who wears preferred flooring stuff it's we're

hiring this company and and there is a comfort level there um that I would like to say that we've earned um from being

consistent on apparel to having the guys show up out every project uniform

residential or commercial so and an interesting concept um I've spoken to a

few let's say bigger contractors that are running around really busy business

owners that you know doing seven seven figures um and they um but they are the

main person that's doing a lot of the work maybe not the installs but they're doing the 60 the 80 100 hours um a month

and then I'm like so what what's the three five 10 year plan and they're like well this can't carry on at this rate

and then when we point out once you become the least um valuable piece of

your business that's when you've got a business that's worth a lot of money so you know

you four weeks out six weeks out and your business runs at the same capacity

then you've got something valuable if you get run over by a train tomorrow suddenly your business is not very

valuable because you're doing all the heavy lifting so that's that's a real sort of thing again where that brand and

if you can not work yourself without some people love to still be in the midst of it but if it can operate

without you being there then suddenly you've got some real tangible value if you want to ever cash that in you know

if that's the plan so that's that's one thing we come across a lot um with the

training side owner operators working double the amount of hours as their team

um and if it if it fell down what what happens then what what precautions are in place so it's uh nothing nothing in

most cases yeah from a high level Tom uh what's that look like I mean obviously

uh you do this for a living so you don't got to give away all your secrets but uh what's it look like to take somebody who

you know let's take a couple of guys in a truck or in a van and you know maybe a

lead um what do you talk to them about marketing it takes a little bit of time to get to what you were just talking

about uh where they're the least valuable but there's steps to that right and marketing is in there somewhere uh

to start a valuable brand and how how do how do the guys go get more uh work

that's valuable and in their skill set I mean one of the easiest most tactical ways um obviously a website is

the first initial one with his all the organic stuff but to scale something and if you got excess Cash go Google ads um

in the UK you can you can scale certain product categories so if you are a

hardwood installer that then wants to go into LBT lvp um quite rapidly and you've

got cash behind you you can within reason turn that on at a certain rate and your phone will ring for those

inquiries so there's there's loads of different other so looking at other larger contracts and increasing your

network um existing contacts VI email but to scale quick as in days not not years um

and if you've got cash unfortunately does have to go to the guys of Google um but having someone clever to manage it

but that that's just one tactic that you can Implement different categories or

different Services I've had people that just go out and buy a set of floor sanders and then suddenly you know we

can get that phone ringing within seven days suddenly that they're the floor sanding expert you know there may not be

but the phone will ring so it's kind of doing doing that from Ground Zero with your Facebook and your Instagram and

using your own network that that takes months and years of reputation so if

that answers it Paul to sort of give you s yeah you know said we've had some great success in that but it's but we

wouldn't recommend it to people that haven't got the cash to give to Google you know unfortunately we only get a very small fee um to manage the money

but the more you know we we've got people that are spending thousands weekly um but very tactically so like

they're putting 4,000 in but getting 20,000 back out and it's you know it's

tracked it's not just money thrown sort of out so it's um but that's probably

one but I think the key thing which my wife would shoot me for is you know I'm very good at the tactics and getting

this stuff in but I think it's absolutely critical to put the structure in place of the right guys the right

processors the right pricing before you start sending rockets at at your at your

online you know because if soon you get really busy and you're pricing every job at at the wrong price it it's a

nightmare it's a complete sort of catastrophe so I think it's the first would be to make a plan with all the

costings done then send rockets at the for line I think is the uh so so so get

educated yeah uh get a website and get ads yes and then there's proba there's a

there's a load more to that obviously but um you know one of the one of the

key benefits I see with you know the um the website uh one of the reasons go

Carrera allow you know gives installers on the network the ability to have a

personal website uh is the fact that it's a it's an outside branding

mechanism uh it's it's something else talking about you without you talking

about you and um I think clients today really expect to be able to find you

online and uh you know I know that it if if uh it's it's super important from

every marketing person I talk to to have a a website and and then obviously it's

important to have that website to go to work for you but if you just had a website uh at the very least uh they're

able to find you online if they Googled you or what have you so I mean just think about what you do like just in

terms of finding something to eat you're always going online and researching these places right people are going to do the same thing with

you yeah like you gota you've got to have somewhere to be parked right yeah

that's the easiest free so if you can't afford the ads and you want to just do it yourself the easiest way is website

then Google my business and ask your clients for testimonials and reviews simple as that every single install

every single client uncle anti sister that's used your service get the reviews

on there because that's just building it builds your SEO for free and it and it um and it builds your confidence you

know it's very similar to to the G career where you you're building these sort of um you know the more you've got

the more profile you've got before the client even has set foot like got you face to face you're already forming an

opinion like again if we went to a restaurant we would form an opinion if it is good or bad by what we online so

you know before we've even eaten there it still could be terrible but you know same as the install but it's hopefully

if we've done our due diligence right by you looking at these experiences you're going to get what you pay for and that's

yeah that's it go ahead J yeah I would just I agree with it's

like um you never you would't go when you're buying off Amazon you read the reviews don't you um so what's the

difference between buying a I don't know a phone cable of Amazon and buying a flooring service there isn't you got to

look at how um the client's going to buy and they're going to buy they're going

to look for you they're going to look for you online because everyone does it from the phones now no one's going to go

walk around it's all from your phone and then they're going to look at your reviews so it's just you reverse

engineering what people do to buy it's what well what Tom was saying it's

um when you when you think about it from a rather than from an installers or a retailers point of view and start

thinking it from a customer point of view it becomes pretty clear that that's a very very good Avenue to go towards

pushing your business forward I think it's a very important Avenue um right

and even if uh if you use social media to do some branding and advertising that way too then you can figure out how to

create some algorithms to get to get uh your name out there a little bit more you can ask your friends and family to

share your information um you know the Google search and when you put it out there for the

public to give their opinion I know that I like to give my opinion on on great

experiences or really bad experiences I'm really bad at giving opinions on middle of the ground experiences at

restaurants or whatever but it's either going to be really good or really bad right and and you want to either lead

people in the right direction or protect people from from their investment and and yeah you're right those those

reviews can help build a client really fast um can also help break them

as well this is where I'm a bit of the amateur in the room because uh in the

commercial I never really did residential so I never had to try to get a great uh you know rating or really get

well known we we publish on the um bid lists and things like that and and

that's where we get our the majority of our of our leads so um I'll let the experts answer this

but uh what's you know we've we've identified that there's some some easy

ways to do this stuff but the um I think one of the to just

step back before that one of the critical things is also setting your business up correctly Tom you kind of mentioned that early on um but does most

of the installation crews in your areas do they work is so Proprietors or do they actually open some type of a

corporate structure to run their company uh their business under from my experience sorry I was

going to say that the there's different levels there's big commercial outfits

with 30 40 installers probably most of the time they've got 10% are employed

the rest are subcontracted but then you've got other contractors that are

mediumsized just two or three vans and then you have the smaller guys so I don't know Johnny what what again

percentage wise and Commercial I don't know if there's a set a set sort of regime unless you know

anything different Johnny I would I would say most of them um most of the

residential Lads will set up on their own um the only real corporate outfits

would be commercial um I I I can't really think of one off top of my head

that's a residential outfit that provides labor only and and and is set up as a as as a

company all seems to be independent subcontractors well they may be independent I guess what I'm asking is

do they run so in the US you know you got corporate structure of some sort so

you can run as a sole proprietor where I don't really have a company between me it's just Paul stward

installation uh and I can still pay have employees even under that structure but

all the liability in taxes and work a little bit different and it's on me uh I

can set up a LLC a limited liability Corporation or I could set up a S Corp

or a C Corp which you know that's getting into bigger companies but I was just curious I mean some of the we we

found a lot of the installers will set up um I say a lot maybe 40% will set up

an an actual corporate structure of some sort like an LLC uh so that they have some protection um

you know personally from any uh catastrophes um and of course insurance and that kind of thing so do most of the

subs in your area carry they're required to carry Insurance do they have to have licenses or bonding capacity any of that

stuff in your over there inure you need your your liability

insurance and your W courage license um would be what you'd need uh um i' I'd

say there's quite a few operating without it um but that's that's the minimum of what you need really um and

then we need another if you if you're going to specify jobs like um and I can never remember what it's called um

because I just pay the bill I don't actually know what it's called but you certain if you are specking FL say if

you doing a corrective flaw uh there's a problem with a flaw and you're telling them what to do about it need an in an

insurance to back up what you're saying so say if I come across a floor and it's

and it needs a lot of repair and I'm saying well what you the products you need are XY Z and this method is how

you're going to fix it h i need insurance to say that if that method is wrong I'm insured it sounds like

professional liability insurance over here yeah yeah um it's got It's

got a warranty is is what it sounds like you're guaranteeing that process the

system yeah but he's saying that's part of the Insurance that's that's like a professional liability insurance it's an

ins it's an insurance policy it's a sub insurance policy um that it's on top of your liability insurance um I can't I

can't I can't remember what it's called um but very I'd say very very few installers have actually got that um

they they'll just have liability insurance and do they have to be licensed no uh no no no no this you you

can be floring installer tomorrow if you wish with no license whatsoever again

the more I talk to you guys the more I figure out you're just the same as we are yeah and to do with a corporate

structure you can become a limited company um which then means you know um you can be a oneman limited company and

or you can be multi you know um and then that limits your liability so if you're not that and you get into they'll put

you if you got to mortgage your assets yourself then that they can charge

against your house and things if you're a limited company um it it takes your

like family home or anything like that unless you sign another disclaimer away from that liability so if a job went

massively wrong they would sue the company and then you know and if the company didn't have any money well no

one gets paid but if that wasn't in place they would sue and then they can take you home so most people that sort

of scale I don't know what the percentag is all but I would hope most people have a

limited company um in the UK if they're going to start trading maybe over2 200,000 pound a year you know because

again there's bigger jobs bigger risks and and it just yeah just protect you a little bit there's more tax um some tax

benefits and some downfalls to it you can take your salary different and things like that you have to do um

proper accounting so when you're not limited company you can get away with not doing much worth of accounting you

still need to do it but it's not assessed if you're a limited company you must have it done by a a charted

accountant or you know qualified accountant um and then submit it to the government at the right time or or you

get fines so you do have more Hoops to jump through but it is better to form

that structure and that can be as big or small as you want there is other bigger versions of that good structure sounds

like a really good structure if you're going to classify yourself as a limited company which would be the equivalent to

our limited liability um company or Corporation sounds very similar but

except except they're mandating that they go through all the other correct channels to make sure that it's a legit

legitimate company through and through and I I like I like that they're yeah they don't do that that that that in

depth uh um looking into it over here honestly um the other thing you can do

is you can go on company's house UK and search any Limited company so I could see what Mr Paul Stewart made net profit

last year if you because you've got to submit them by law um of what profit you

made you know or what profit you didn't make um and you know your assets and your balance sheet and things like that

so you've you've got to submit this information which makes it transparent of who you're dealing with um obviously

people might fabricate things slightly but the information is there for Po from the time that the company was open so

you can look at every single Year's accountancy um which commercially you know protects

you and also if your clients do it they can see if you're you know if you've got court cases if you've got legals against

you you can normally see things like that you can see if they've had companies that haven't succeeded or

anything like that so it gives you that sort of overview if you if you need it you know it doesn't go into massive

depth but it gives you enough to get a basic understanding of who you're dealing with which I think is valuable

um you know it's not intrusive in any way yeah ours is basically check and it

says whether or not they're in good standing with the state uh that they're formed in and that's about it that and

that's just like a $25 fee per year yeah they just want their money yeah so I think there's a lot of

value to that um go ahead Jose I was going to keep uh keep the train rolling

on and start talking about we've talked a lot about business approaches I'll let you finish up on that one and then

get on to one of my favorites which is some installation techniques well we're going to roll right into that because

that's where my brain wet already so all right so um you guys uh tend to do a lot

of actual hardwood what's what's your Market structure like between say carpet

hardwood and tile or vinyl lvp is probably a big one too I would imagine but mine's 100%

hardwood and always has be um so I'm just I'm just hardwood 99% stuck down um

or or or nailed down fixed down in some method and that's it that's you know I'm Johnny will be able to elaborate much

more on um much more installations I I've not been on the tills 10 12 years um but but you know as

I said I've still got the same opinions I had then of fixed down hardwood so carpet lvt um anything like that never

what is what are most of the uh what are most of your facilities let's start with residential we got uh uh about oh 15

minutes here to to do this so I want to kind of get an idea what what is most of

the clients in a residential home is it mostly lvp is it mostly hardwood is it

mostly uh carpet in the home if yeah generally speaking now you'd have a

ground floow in LBT lvp uh um staircase bedrooms upstairs in carpet uh as an

industry I would say the vast majority of sales is in lvt uh or lvp stuck down

as well not the click together stuff that you Americans seem to like which is

rubbish oh I love it you are right it is rubbish 100% I'm not gonna

disagree so just a quick vacular thing guys rubbish is crap yeah

yeah trash it's trash it's so it's so limited so limited and so fragile and

just so bad in compared to the fully alternative that in well within the

industry is kind of seen as a DIY product and it's not um professional installers tell me knows up at it

generally as a rule it's it's not got a very good reputation amongst in stallers

as as in the click system but anyway uh yeah I'd say maybe 60% of the market is

LBT 50 60% of the market um for me

personally I'd say 70% of lvt 20 a 25%

carit 5 to 10% um Hardwoods and then like in the bathrooms

or we I I don't do tiles as much but um

I don't really come across tiles often even in uh when I'm not installing um

it's a smaller smaller sector and you tend to find as well Tyler's um as

Talon's done as part of the bathroom fit out uh by plumbers it's not doesn't tend

to be done by um fling profession by fling contractors so the plers tile hey

yeah wow interesting all all the tyers work closer with the plumbers than with

the floring side of the market unless it's a tile specific trade Warehouse

then obviously ties is going to go there but um I don't come across tyers very

often does uh what What's your substrates like is it mostly wood mostly

on slab or on on slab on ground floor is

the vast majority um upstairs is Timber um but anhydrate and gypson becoming

very very popular in new builds um very very popular because it's cheaper quicker to dry um it's Greener and

install it works well with under floor heating but it can prove a nightmare for

installers what do you guys uh how do you approach floor prep on your on your

slabs like um is there I was talking to well I think we were all actually in a

talk with uh Thomas uh at Ty was that at Ty guys when th was talking about in

Germany he uh no that was at uh CFI convention CFI okay yeah so he he said

man when he got over here to the US and and we're we're patching floors and we're the all the concrete guys are

trying to finish concrete to you know a floor flatness of of uh 316 and 10 feet

and still keep it porous and all this stuff uh he said over in in Germany man

they everything's rough finished and you selfle everything uh is that the way it is with

in your in your uh experience over there or is it is it concrete trying to finish

it yeah yeah we're generally generally rougher finished not that not that rough

rougher finished the sediment is usually left on so you've got a mechanically take that off and then you Prime and put

a smoothing compound down um and then the SR rating is usually

is the SR rating supposed to be uh defined by the slab but it never is so

that's all that always falls on to the contractor I tend to find like what rsr1 would be um a 3 mil

difference over 2 meters which is what um 16th of an inch over 6 half

fet uh some like that but that's rsr1 and that's what you'd if say if you were doing a hering bone in stall that's what

you'd want your prep like um and you got more chance of Angel at my

ass and finding a FL that totally honest got Well we'd say the same thing about

our floor flatness uh I think they call it an FFL number which is a uh an e inch

and 10 feet and uh you want to talk about nightmare with click we are in

love with click some reason over here um we don't do it much in the commercial World although it does get

specified um but you want to talk about a nightmare have a unlevel floor with a

click system and you got yourself a nightmare just don't work it's not strong enough it don't

work Breck and joins yep a l the Locking mechanisms ain't made for it even though

you know the guys will install it anyways and that's where sell it

like I bulletproof yeah I'm of the come

about trying to solve a greater problem that no one's using on uh I think prob

click systems come about to make lvt lvp installation easier because there isn't

enough professionals about to fit it um and the problem isn't the product the

problem is we haven't got enough installers and um I don't think installers are coming into the market

because of the in installation section of the market it's not appealing it doesn't

bring people in uh it's not regulated it's not controlled old um and you've

got like a retirement rate of 10 to one so 10 people are retiring for every one person that comes in yet as a sector

it's a growing Market um yeah it's it's a it's a problem a massive problem and I

think manufacturers are um addressing it by making products easier to fit but by

proxy are making products that are of lesser quality so that then you devaluing the product it seems like it

to me and it's it also seems like it's G in the industry overall a kind of a sour taste I mean look how much stuff went to

Pol at least over here in the US went to polish concrete uh we've talked about

this uh same problem uh Johnny on on previous podcast about manufacturers

trying to uh engineer out the labor or engineer out the uh skill that's

required um I think you know the truth is just like you said earlier I mean we

are a skilled bunch of people um so it's a it's a it's a harder I think that you

know it's probably one of the most skill intensive uh trades out there from a a

hand skills perspective a Craftsman's perspective um and and you just you try

to engineer that out and then that product fails and that's why click systems you know they they have a bad

rap in a lot of ways we all fight it um yeah it's interesting that a lot of the

problems we experience over here uh are are are very that's kind of what I was

looking at it's they try to engineer the products to be more DIY friendly so that anyone can install them and then you get

professionals to install them and then they still do it wrong because it's just

we're in a industry where there's no emphasis on training and doing things right it's

just get in there throw it down on to the next one yeah and there's no um there's no like

with estimation as well like with subcontract Market all the um software

and development that's been helped for installation uh for sorry for estimating

it's all done about selling the product it's not lot for me you need to

concentrate on how it's going to go down that's where the help is needed like

um we term over budget and scarper um you you get if you're a subcontractor

you turn up at this the shop you get giving your goods you turn up to the job site and the goods are wrong the prep

materials are wrong um and you've got two choices you've got to still May

morals and say this is not right for this service uh we can't do it um and

then you don't get paid or the budget and scaer they work with work with what

they've got get it down and get paid and run off that's uh and it's that problem

a't been addressed and that's not the installer's fault um it's the estimate

the person estimating and quantifying the job doesn't know how to install it so he's working with the best knowledge

that he's got and then the installer has to work using that knowledge and it's just a it's just a cluster [ __ ] if I'm

totally honest yeah brilliant there's brilliant

softwares out there there's brilliant softwares out there for estimating um and you can

tweak them because I've done it um but if the people making the softwares could tweak them

to know how these products go down and then um tell the in the estimator um

what needs to be sold and effectively like you guys ever know of measure square that's the one I use so that's

one a point of reference meas square like the catalog um you got the drag and drop and you you You' scale the plan out

and then you drag and drop the uh products in um the tag on and the ads uh

that you can do with that you they can be manipulated to work for um installation so that the you could

categorize it so that only products that work on that type of installation can be sold and then at

least you know that the estimator who's estimating it can only sell products suitable for that

installation and that it would be it's a very simple way around doing it but there's

no um software providing that service it's got to effectively be I think the

um all the new Solutions and the new help and the um where's that people

software developers basically have dragging the industry into the current state of affairs because I don't know

what it's like over there but I'd say that I the flowing industry is 10 20

years behind technology and it needs dragging forward into modern times all the solutions been brought forward to do

that are being aimed at selling floring they not being aimed at fitting it but floring until Go Value it's worked on

until go well until goer like you're Hammer rating your Hammer rating is beauty um it's a class idea it's um it's

a very very good way of um like over with' have an mvq uh but the problem

you've got with the mvq is it's so limited I think it stops at 3 so you could have a lad who's uh been working

for three years uh and he's a level three and then you've got a lad who's been got a level three but then he's

been working at a level three for 25 years on top of that there's no account there's no account for that um

experience there's no account for that knowledge that he gained over the 25 years and on paper them two guys are the

same and they're not they're just not and you're you're Hammer rating and is is a brilliant way of solving that yeah

thank you we're we're uh we're in be uh hopefully introducing that over in your

guys's neck of the woods but uh when we talk about Labor what what is what are

some of the things that you guys or that you've seen in um from a government

standpoint or an industry standpoint on their approach to solving some of the labor shortages that you uh mentioned

earlier um if I'm from my experience chule Tom I think it's been

ignored from my experience think the problem's been ignored yeah there there's nothing like it's difficult no

matter which way you try and get help it's difficult I wouldn't say

unachievable but it's you know it it's there's not any clear pathway at all you've got to fight to get educated to

get you know into that um is a simple answer there's not even a way of dressing it um obviously we're doing

things to try and change that to you know bring more sort of sex it up a bit

you know sort of you know this is what your business could be this is you know this is this is what 10 years looks like

if you do it right this is what 20 years looks like but at the moment it isn't most people fall into

the floring industry and sort of help a friend or um I don't know yeah sort of

yeah but it is e grow up it sounds like the same like over here you either grew up and your your uncle or your dad or

your brother or somebody was in the flooring business and you became their their help and and uh they taught you

and uh there's no there's no way to uh you know obviously like I mentioned

earlier outside go Carrera there's been no way to really incite uh any

governance to to to helping the install ER see the value in getting trained the

and when I say the installer I'm talking about the subcontract installer the uh you know the independent uh companies

can send their their employees to go get trained uh but when we started with

subcontracting and you know it's been going on for you know probably 30 40 years but it really caught wind in the

mid90s over here and um a lot of the Union um uh started to fall away and

that started to create more subs and more subs and more subs and the problem

I think is Grandpa did it the the union way and was very well trained and taught

the Son and the son taught the other son and we're in like the third generation now and it's gotten so watered down that

if you don't go to Industry Level Training like over here it's CFI and

aft um you know uh you got nact if you don't go to one of these

acronyms and start getting your industry training you're going to you're you're

you're like a diyer with a with a at best a sticker on your van saying you

install floors I mean we have to get a Resurgence in training and then bring

that value Forefront that was the idea the hammer rating was like higher Hammer

rating higher pay like you're better trained you have more experience it's all represented in that one rating and

and and you can command a a you know a better fee for that it's it's it's a

brilliantly simple system as well because it shows a commitment to improving yourself if you go higher up

the hammer rate and You' do it but you've done it by a training um and the by going and I know there a lot of them

are just accredited courses and the certificates of attendance but it's it's like we were saying before it's the mindset the sort of person that is

taking hours out of the day putting taking money out of the pocket and paying towards going for these courses

that person is trying to improve themselves to try to get their skills better and they are worth more because

as we said before it's a craft it's not a it's not a trade as such it's a craft and it's about the person improving like

that um and being able to show the end buyer the end user that you are of that

mindset that's the way forward it's a brilliant way of installing confidence in them and a way of getting that person

more money than they are like they yeah you ought to be able to set yourself apart pretty easily you know if you're

the if you're the mindset like all of us on this call like like you Johnny and and Daniel and Jose I know are heavily

certified uh and and been through all kinds of trainings you really get to set yourself apart in a way that the buyer

can understand that's one of the problems we have over here I'm not sure about over there but over here if

somebody says I'm certified in XYZ or I'm certified through XYZ the buyer

doesn't necessarily and I would I would change that the buyer hardly ever knows

that what that means or that that matters at all uh but we can all

understand zero to five yeah yeah that is simple as term

the inclusiveness of it as well um it doesn't really matter Who provided the training coures as long as you've been

on one uh that's good as well like over here you've got um you got ncf youve got

flaw skills you've got um uh CP assessments all providing similar courses but then it's almost an internal

ble as to which one's best and like none none of them are best it's it's it's all

brilliantly useful information and techniques uh there needs to be a unified Hammer rating uh the best way of

putting it that says right it doesn't really matter which LBT cost you've got gone on as long as it's level two it's

worth two hmos um it doesn't the provider is kind of irrelevant um and

then that that needs to be pushed to the buyer so that then the buyer is looking for a hammer r and then like uh then you

can if you're down south you could go to a provider down south if you up north you could go a trainer up north um and

then it spread out evenly um and it would just it improve the industry so much uh and having a clear having a

clear pathway as well like um I'm like I'm 42 um 50 the over here I've got works

I'm 75 and laying floors till I'm 75 is

it's just not going to happen it isn't going to happen but it's all I know it's all I've ever done the needs to be a a

defined Pathway to get out um and like generally Ru of th from when I started

it was always a learn to be a fitter when you get too old to be fitting you set up a shop well I Street retail is

dead it's it's it's just it's dead and it's going to get worse and worse in my opinion everything needs to go online so

over here you just become a greeter at Walmart yeah well as an installer if you like to

stay in the trade I'm of the opinion that um you it would be a lot easier rather than setting up a shop would be

to train Lads and set up a team and set up a business that looked after

installation only and say you had a a huge caret for flowing retailer and then

you had a subcontract uh installation business but that business provided the

measuring service it it held the um it held the stock so the showroom didn't necessarily have to have a warehouse it

could just have sampling um and then the installer provided that uh all for a fee

and then the business would take its make its money from from making doing the measures from staring the goods and

then it would Train The Lads up um through and pay them from the actual

fitting money and then you could scale it out and then that gives a pathway for

the knowledge not to be lost for a start from the experienced older Lads and

somewhere for them to work out the work out to to retirement because there yeah

there's not a cattin L's chance of me dragging massive lumps of carpet up staircases in 20 years I'm struggling

now it's not going to happen in 20 years but if I don't have a different we have a couple comments here

Rin says that you can just stay in it until you're 140 like he is I think he's 160 now

though but the other right the other one was Kevin he's he's wondering if you

guys are seeing a lot of high-end or lowgrade carpet over there and if a lot of people are doing or installers are

doing binding and surging I'd say B binding is growing uh

definitely um higher end flat waves is definitely growing regarding the carpet

but I'd say mid-range uh low end serves a market high end is limited I'd say

mid-range uh midrange action back secondary back is I'd say the basis of

the carpet Market 100% yeah I mean just like over here the highend I mean there's guys that do it

and then there's guys like us that have never set hands on that stuff the only times I I've set hand on flat weave or

anything is when I went and got certified for it yeah but you know it I but I do know it now if I if we ever ran

into it we'd be able to do it that's the big ticket right there you know what I find I find the higher the quality of

the product the easer it is to fit um flat wave in my opinion is a chuffing dole it's a lot lot harder to fit a

cheap po quality Carper than it is to do a fat flat wave and a me Wilton okay I

got to interrupt you just for a second for a vernacular clarification you said

a a truff and Dole Is that what we heard a chuffin dole uh easy very easy okay

Dole okay all right that's what I knew I would love about this

podcast even some places in the UK wouldn't have understood that so

it's that's a pure Ireland thing hey well yeah um yeah so it means it's a lot

easier well the higher grade quality products I know that's true um you know with sheet vinyl which is

where my skill set kind of lied was in the resilient world so lvts and uh vinyl

uh tile vinyl plank and Sheet vinyls the higher-end products typically uh I'm not

saying easier to fit um necessarily but

certainly when it comes to the really important stuff like the welding and things like that it's it's it's easier

to weld uh a quality V vinyl than it is to weld the cheap

vinyl the last uh event we were at that's what they were talking about too about how you know you take someone that

is usually installing really high-end stuff and then you give them a cheap piece of carpet and they're like I don't

even know what to do with this you know they they they have issues and it's it is it's the quality of the carpet has

tons to do with how easy it's installed yeah so

quick question for you guys about M multifam work uh what's that look like over there do you guys I'm sure you have

a a a fair bit of multifam kind of work is is the installer group in in that

services that market um a different group uh or a different type

of installer or what do you mean by multif family uh apartment complexes

condos um um yeah there isn't as many apartments

uh and flats as there is in America there tends to be more houses but I would say I would say that would fall on

the residential installers uh apart from the communal areas communal areas would fall into the commercials because of the

certain nosings and finishes and products you need to put on there um but yeah I I personally I'd say that's more

of a domestic job it's just a scale unless new builds like new build

in London uh highrise that would be the only obscure but that would be highend

residential flooring because the um apartments in London you know into the Millions for very small spaces so you're

getting very expensive floor coverings but in smaller spaces but you might get 80 apartments and again that would but

that would be bigger flowing contractors that may tackle out the the uh work

directly for the main contractor so there would be a main building contractor then you would have a flowing

contractor sub into to that contractor doing 80 Apartments type of thing so but

not not really big but that's tends to be only in the capital cities it's sort of where me and Johnny are I would say

it's few and far between you know might be blocks of 15 and then that would be done possibly you know correct me again

Johnny like like Johnny and his guys would go and do that with no problem but in the in in the cities it's slightly

bigger contractors do it go down in quality and well I'll just say you know

over here a lot of the multifam as we call it so multi-unit uh apartment complexes and

such is typically about the cheapest lvt on the market with the cheapest labor in

the market uh I've heard really I won't even tell you the cost that I've heard

some guys install that stuff for um but uh we we're not super uh big into that

market we do a few if we specify the flooring uh but our guys are you know

they demand a higher rate than um than a lot of the guys who go around the

country here and they'll they'll put in these apartment complexes for I'll just say it like 50 cents a a square foot for

LV glue down lvt lvp just much about 450 yard in it they live in a van down by

the river that's why they can do it I don't know how they do it man we we

don't have those guys but it's it's kind that brings me to to a question too and I know that we're running over a little

bit but um is is the market out there in the commercial world is it more of a bid

Market or is it more of a negotiated Market because if contractors are using specific installers for their projects I

imagine they're trusted and since it isn't the majority of a store providing

the work how does that market shake out if if there's already specifications and

do they just negotiate apprciate the work or is it kind of a gimme or do they have to bid against one another for my

from my experience in that in the commercial side of things you've got the main contractor uh the main contractor is the one that does all the bids and

he's got his favorite subcontractors so like you have uh we used to do hospitals

and we do uh all the hospitals in the north strip from Manchester to Hull um

and you'd only really have three main contractors um who would bid for them jobs and whichever one got them it would

Define which fling contractor got the job it wouldn't necessar the uh the fling contractors themselves wouldn't

bid for the main job you might get um say like you had a main contractor he'd get three prices but it was only ticking

boxes it was always only ever going to be one flowing contractor got that job and it was down a relationship so pretty much negoti

negotiated kind of uh shortlisted bid practices yeah from networking you see

you um it was the main contractor got that job you knew you'd got it it didn't really matter if two or three other

people bided to the main contractor of the floring job you knew hads you already had the relationship with it they just got two or three prices just

to take boxes they were never gonna no one else were going to get that work so as whoever took him out for dinner most

recently is the one ni contracts exactly that it's exactly that yeah whoever um

I've I'm not even going to lie I'm going to tell you the truth I've got a contract for a commercial contractor

before because I fit his house for free um I like you know if this we get this I'm not going to say the job but if we

get that then um that carpet that you want in your house your M really likes

it might just get fit and it might just not cost you out um yeah it might just

show up in your house and and it did and by Magic we got the contract me now it

works um but yeah that that's something once or twice well I

think go ahead Tom go ahead I've interviewed um some of the bigger um

eight figure um commercial contractors on our podcast and I always ask them you

know what is the best way to keep your guys busy what is the best marketing tactics for 24 and every single one

answers their Network who they it doesn't necessarily who they're going out for dinner with but that's where the

value is who they've got a relationship with a proper solid friendship stroke

relationship and based on the last work that they did so that last hospital they did that last prison they did that

that's everything to them which is good because it brings a standard of the work up but that's they're not doing massive

sales campaigns um or things like that even though they'll lose jobs sometimes but still keep really solid

relationships for the next job and the you know the company's been around a long time and that seems to be

completely different to the residential um store sort of work where you do one

job maybe for the same client every 10 years the commercial guys are working consistently for the same people and

building those relationships um in a nice but yes there's probably some underhand you know carpets being fitted

and you know couple m brown envelopes here and there but predominantly it's based on trust and and integrity that's

from what I every time I ask the same question of how have you got to this big and that that's that's the answer every

time yeah the the uh the other method's not sustainable

like you still have to do good work right and have a relationship that that

will um you know nobody wants to uh I don't think that any you know around

here anyway uh that any contractor wants to have uh you know a tough go at a

project or or have you know a a bad quality installation just to give their

buddy the job I mean you still have to perform is what we see over here um but

yeah so we go ahead you've always got to perform it was more of a case of um the

knew you were but a lot of the time the man making the decision it was bound down on price um and it was a price War

and the the people effectively and the war were always going to produce a um a

good quality install it was the usually a price way to get the actual work and

it was just a way of making them favor looking at your company rather than another way um sure I'm not it does

happen it happens quite a lot okay well hey guys

um we we are um about 20 minutes past the the hour and uh it has been I I feel

like I could stay on here for another hour but um so the but the problem is we're going to

start running out of uh bandwidth but um here we go I have a a final couple

questions for you guys and then we're going to close this podcast out from an installer standpoint do do you have uh

any big labor shops is the first question kind of what you were describing Johnny earlier uh there are

some guys very sporadically in the nation that will uh you know take it

they got a warehouse and they train their Crews uh they those guys are typically pretty fabulous to deal with

but um uh do you have any of that currently and then secondly do you do installers cross over from residential

and Commercial pretty uh equally or is it always you know know I'm more of a

commercial installer and I'm a residential installer yeah you tend to they tend to favor one or the other you

tend to find um and they tend to in my experience they tend to favor you'll

have people who favor carpets and justful do carpets people who tend to favor just and just do wood and vinyls

it's it's rare that you would get someone who has an equal an equilibrium of them of them all um and yeah if

regarding commercial and residential people you tend as a as a rule they tend

to be one or the other um the people operated in the gray that can comfortably work in either are are rarer

and rarer um and regarding teams like actual

setups for installers um I don't know one um which is why I'm creating one

myself that's how we operate so um and it's only because there isn't another

one Tom what's your input there um I mean again I've all of our 95% of ours

was residential mid to highend um all hardwood um that's always been and then

we've really cherry-picked commercial jobs um because the payment so when

you're doing residential you get 50% up or you should really get 50% up front and then get paid when you complete the

works commercial has an element of you may struggle to get some of the materials up front and then they'll pay

you 30 days from completion if the terms you know so it's yeah if you looky

and if if if you've you've submitted the invoice on the Tuesday before the Monday that you needed to do on the Thursday

you know it's like yeah yeah that's that's that's what we deal with over

here it's uh you got some billing date uh we're we consider a really good payer

for our company at 40 days in the commercial world so hey

everybody that's uh in the in the audience we've got the UK flooring podcast uh QR code up uh give it a I

know some of you have already scanned it give it a scan give these guys a listen Tom and your wife joined you on that

typically is that correct or I'm horse but Sarah's on there obviously this this

podcast will go on to there um so yeah it's it's a complete free-for all butom it's me that's present

it awesome so give them a follow and and uh check out their podcast uh we're

going to uh end this one I want to thank uh Tom and Johnny for coming on and

giving us your your uh perspective from the UK and from Ireland and and kind

from across the pond yeah from across the pond giving us some the the more I I

think about it and the more we talk the more I see so many similarities to the problems and uh so it's it's just great

to talk to you guys and and get to know what how you approach some things there's definitely some some nuggets in

there if you've been uh watching this live man some of the some of the uh

takeaways and Nuggets in this podcast you should go back and listen to this on YouTube um and then comment and and uh

while you're there just give us a like and uh subscribe subscribe but uh certainly you want to rewatch this

there's a lot of nuggets one of the best things I got to say it again there some of the other trades have a right and

wrong way we got multiple right ways to do uh things sometimes in flooring and

so that's why it requires such high training and and such a professional in my opinion so I hope we can uh the

People Like Us can can band together more and more and help heal the industry

across the hell across the planet at this point you know but really in the western world uh where you got uh you

know capitalism and and kind of free markets where uh labor operates the way

that we're talking on this podcast that we can kind of heal our industry and and hopefully attract some new uh talent in

uh get them talent that Talent placed we've got some some programs going on with go Carrera that does that that I'll

share with you Tom when we uh talk a little bit deep about it but um yeah it's just been a pleasure thank you to

Jose and Daniel you guys um are the Huddle and uh I appreciate you guys

always coming on and and um this has been awesome so uh any closing

arguments no but thank you thank you so much for having us been absolute pleasure love it yeah we' enjoyed it

thank you awesome I I just wish that uh our commercial Market over here was more

like your guys is over here we see you know low bid rules the market and then you talk to these contractors and

they're like we'll never work with them again and then on the next bid guess what they're low bid and then the same

thing all over again yeah true I appreciate you guys for uh coming on today it was it was a

blast I appreciate you guys teaching me timber for wood rubbish for trash or

cheap and you guys didn't say it directly but uh someone who only installs click lvp is pretty much only a

professional DIY I appreciate

that all right guys well uh if you're watching this we're here every Tuesday

so come and see us give us a follow like subscribe make some comments uh if you

like this content the only way that uh we can get it out to the masses is by uh

your engagement so um you know help us out and uh you know we're going to end

the stream guys but you don't have to click off just yet yep we forget to pre

preface that all the time yeah you guys stay on and we'll see the audience later

see you thanks everyone

bye