In this special episode of The Huddle, we’re excited to welcome back Tom Cockerill from the UK to dive into Global Flooring Trends. Join Paul and Jose as they explore what’s happening in the world of flooring across the Atlantic. From innovative technologies and styles gaining popularity in the UK to trends shaping the industry globally, Tom provides a unique international perspective on where flooring is headed.

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

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what's up team welcome back to the Huddle we are your weekly Playbook to

help G you gain forward progress in your flooring career to our new viewers

welcome to the team what's up guys how's it going

today I want to introduce uh Tom cockro who has been uh on the podcast before

and uh Tom is from the UK so we are going to be talking Global flooring

Trends kind of a little bit about installation probably get into some training stuff uh just a myriad of of

topics that we go over here at the huddle with me is as usual Mr Jose Gonzalez we are void Mr Daniel today

he's again out on a job site trying to uh complete some work so yeah get some

stuff done yeah never stops Tom you ever you ever get down on your knees anymore

and put some floors in I would simply know um last time last time

was covid was 100 square meters of flooring and that that was it so

probably 100 meters in the last 10 years on my knees well lucky you uh for for our

viewers out there that didn't catch you on the first podcast uh won't you give us a introduction kind of tell us you

know how you got into flooring what you're up to today and a little bit about Tom yeah no problem um so 20 years

in the flooring industry started on my knees floor sanding then developed into

floor fitting predominantly Uh Wood hardwood um then went into um little bit

of lvt a little bit of lam PR predominantly would um and then fast

forward to now we run a business consultancy um training provider uh for

the flooring industry so we train um anything from contractors to one man in

all lady in a van uh all the way up to multi7 figure retailers um predominantly

or only really on the business side of things so we don't cover installation um

anything of that nature um um it's all to do with the business side um and then

from there the training we offer mentorship and additional training and then we work on predom on my side of the

business we work with some of the manufacturers to deliver bigger projects that's similar to mentoring but but not

quite we we get them from A to B so that that's us in a in a couple of sentences

if that Mak nice so do you do um when you're doing business training you got any us uh company you work with or is it

all in the UK all UK all UK we've just done a course today that's why I'm a

little bit star eyed um for everybody out there it's nine o'clock for Tom it's 3 o'clock for us it's four o'clock for

Jose so Tom's on the back side of a long day so yeah we we've had flowing

contractors with us for two days um today was day two um so we've been right

in the thick of it all day um and day two is sales marketing acquisition

things like that and that's my my piece so yesterday I didn't do as much but today was was mine so hence why nine

o'clock I'm smoked so what is um what is the uh the primary experience level of

uh of companies or individuals that that are taking the courses you offer how do you mean so the what would

you mean by the experience experience do we have a new businesses starting up do you have people who have been in the

business for a while that are getting the Consulting is it a wide range

literally every single variety we had um on the course today on yesterday we had

someone that had worked for a shop for a couple of years and then set up on their own so they're in their first year

trading and then we had commercial contractors that have been in the business 44 years um one of them so it

big variety you know um multi-team um commercial and then just single

operative out on the T fitting carpet so complete there isn't a niche flowing

contractor as long as they're either in a retail environment or on the knees um

the cost covers it so it's you don't discriminate you appreciate I got

it yeah so yeah it's um it really does cover um the basics the higher level all

the way up to the higher level so people get completely different items and we're always really deep dive into that you

know what is the biggest take HS they're getting and they're all completely different completely different for the

companies over um here in the US that do some similar things uh I'm curious what

what what do you find like most

um most of these stores like what is the

like if you had a number one thing that most of them ignore or are not like really paying attention to or where do

where do you provide the most value throughout your course obviously your whole course is valuable but is there

one thing that or a couple of things that most people are

missing so predominantly I would say of the industry um I don't cover it Sarah

covers it but the financial side so completely

comprehending your numbers from start to finish not sort of freestyling not a

little bit of guessing maybe adding some you know exact measurement of where you

are now where you might be in the future and you know and things like that exact

not sort of It's Always most of it is made up from the ground and then work up

and if there's money in the bank that's okay not done on any sort of teed measurement so that's

normally um right across from the the smaller turnovers to the bigger turnover

um a lot still don't know where they are um and it's just because there's an

education around that you know we all and where do we find this information you know it's we yeah yeah

that lines up that's I would say that's probably the number one

uh that and uh in a second place I would say is truly

valuing uh your craft like not not just getting into it cuz you worked somewhere

for a for a guy for a year and then you think you can do it so you go out on

your own you don't go and seek out any formalized standardized training or

anything just go out and start putting stuff in those are probably two biggest problems that get that need solved over

here because hey if guys don't know that they're making a profit or not and you

don't know where you're numbers are you don't know you know any Baseline of Break Even

for your for your business then that's a problem I mean that's you you literally

don't have a business you're kind of doing a hobby if you don't know that stuff yeah you're just second yeah and

then secondly is um truly valuing the uh

uh some type of uh standardized uh in station standards

seeking out the craft you know trying to be the best that you can absolutely be

uh trying to obviously change that here but that's interesting I wanted to ask you that and see if it lined up so we

are going to jump into a couple of product topics I was curious you know we

have the title Global flooring Trends I was curious what's rocking over there in the UK what do you guys uh primarily

still you know in stalling both maybe residential if you have any uh Insight in the commercial world uh Jose does

some residential over here in the US side uh I do all commercial so I can I

was going to kind of compare where what what what's trending I was so I've got

three different elements this one is selfish one is trendy and then I'll

cover commercial as well so okay I'll go I'll go with the selfish one first selfish one being uh hardwood um because

that's my background that's my passion still get excited about even though it may be a little bit sad about Timber

floring um and over the years the um especially since covid the price has

gone significantly up transport is up um so it became a point where it it really

got expensive when lvt lvp was up um also coming into the market so that

seemed a better option what I'm now seeing that manufacturers have lowered the price of Entry a little bit and

there seems to be a little bit more of a buzz around wood it may be me because I did feel like there was a dip and I feel

like we're at the end of that dip and we're coming back out and people are really s we're seeing the carpet guys

saying I want to learn more about wood I need wood in my retail store a little

bit more excited about it so I'm seeing that um I see it firsthand so that's a

selfish piece um the main thing that I think is getting other people excited is

the um lvt that's got the basket weave Chevron um we would call them Victorian

tiles so very small intricate tiles and replicating something in the Victorian

time and things like that and the manufacturers are bringing out better and better replications of this sort of

real Specialty Flooring um and that seems to be a buzz that's the trendy um

and then probably could deep dive much more into these so please feel free to dig back into them um commercial side

people seem to be start on the environmental piece of you know saving

the whales and saving the the the um plastic straws and all of this they want

to start the journey but then they end up where actually looks like and we'll

end up possibly with a different hardwood or an lvt or something like that but they start we saving the whales

and it's yeah and and that's what the Architects and the designers seem to want him to speak about but then we work

back and then then look at price and product and look secondary so that's a

an overview so you guys can outow maybe something at me with any of those point but that's my overview of what I feel

2024 is produced in the UK I I would say on on the commercial

side uh your lvt they have gotten a little bit fancier with uh I would call

it with um some designer friendly uh product lines that that um

bring some of that Chevron patterns and and different patterns into uh the lvt

and they they seem to be pretty much Limitless with their ability to create imagery so um lvt is still just a

juggernaut in the commercial uh atmosphere along with carpet tole on the uh the other side in

in um commercial is there's a lot of

products that are coming out that are environmentally friendly that actually

uh Shaws come out with one here uh that is an lvt that's in Cradle to cradle

Cradle to grave and um has a good price point because like

you said what typically happens is we get designers or Architects that are really gung-ho about the green uh you

know products but you know you get you get into the pricing and before you know it it's 35 40% higher and they start

asking for Value engineering ideas and before you know it they're they're just using good oldfashioned lvt so here the

last month or two we've been shown multiple products at my uh

office um that are environmentally friendly PVC free uh good imagery good

good testing all that stuff so that's starting to hit the market it not quite so much in 24 but I can see it going

haywire in 25 so that's the commercial side I don't do enough residential to uh other than

tile to really have a opinion but I know does what are your what are your thoughts Jose um how does it compare

well so far spot on with the commercial right everybody want something that appears to be custom and one-of aind for

their facilities their their hospitals their schools so there's there is a lot of custom high-end work going on in the

commercial world and everything is modular unless like you said unless value engineering is in play then you

start getting like some broad looms and some yeah some lower end uh wear layers

and materials but um for the residential side you know honestly where where I'm

at in our location is hit or miss right it depends on the age of the demographic uh the older um demographic is still

wanting some of that uh nostalgic feeling I mean there's no more carpet around toilets I will say that like

thank God that's that's going that's going away and if they request it we we explain to them the implications that

that come along with that um but uh you know for for a while there it was um it

was a laminate but then you know that shifted over to the rigid core spcs were

getting very popular because of of uh the the we didn't have to put an

expansion every so many square feet right so spc's got popular but then that

is actually fading fading out now and it's more spcs and uh items like that um

the DIY uh thing is kind of fading away a little bit because of all the failures

that everybody is seeing um and I think that's where the spcs and the drop block systems came into play um well they were

they were positioned in the market and I don't know I'd love to hear your opinion or how it worked over in the UK but they

were all the DIY products were positioned as like you don't have to know anything to put this down you don't

have to have any like it the it the we did a podcast where we got on Tik Tok

and looked at some of these things and it was hilarious they they did very good at their marketing they were very very

good at their marketing yeah they just made it like the the stay-at-home mom can put it in you know and and Truth is

is you still have to have the floor prepped correctly and all these things and I I um uh so I think that that

caused a lot of the failures um you know both

mainly in residential but even a little bit in commercial where uh property managers were starting to do some of

their own stuff because they thought that it was no problem it's just carpati how how hard can it be so do you have

did you guys experience that same thing over there exactly the exactly the same where the the Die Hard installers sort

of tried it and then avoided it and realized you may as well just you know most of the real spe well the normal

contractors are sticking and everything down with the lvt um so then when they see in the DIY Market you've got

something know fully waterprof can supposedly fit together as well as a 12

mil laminate um you know go over an unlevel subf and then when it gets to it it fall you know it just snaps and comes

apart yeah yeah um so yeah it's very quickly seems to have swerved and possibly even

I haven't seen it but there was talk more of um either a lot thicker sort of up to 14 mil versions and then also back

to a a laminate to Swerve back into that DIY easy click easy install if the

subflow isn't quite right it'll take it um I did see on a on a flooring display

in a in a in a showroom H and it said suitable like it was on the um point of sale and it said

product is suitable for unlevel subf flaws and just that just didn't resonate

I'm thinking how you've never heard those two things

put together in the same sentence they didn't have a picture of it because they had a transition every third piece every

third row there was a transition that's what they didn't tell you um so going back to that conversation so I we just

had a a potential client call and I went out measured and she was talking me on her phone next to her husband and she's

like well you know we did the DIY thing but now since all of that failed we wanted to call a professional to install

it and I was like oh yeah you know they advertise as DIY unfortunately the

homeowners are still subject to the same standards as a professional and if you don't know those standards or you don't

abide by them and something goes wrong um the there's no coverage um so I mean

I wasn't trying to sell anything but I was just explaining and yeah but I'm glad well you should try to sell because

many many diyers they they don't understand the fact is is read the

install instructions I guarantee you the somewhere it's going to have ANM standard somewhere uh which is the

American testing uh testing of standard measurements or whatever um you know

it's going to have these standards that you got to know uh you know whether it's f710 or 1869 for moisture and all these

things and then on top of that when when you both you both mentioned moisture

proof uh or waterproof yeah waterproof that is such a misleading way to sell something

that is not truly I mean yeah if you spill a cup of water in the middle of the slat of the the properly installed

tile it's it's probably not going to cause you a problem if you get it around

the edges and underneath of it you got yourself an issue and um anyway that's

funny same same same kind of uh challenges no matter where you go yeah

well I think failure is failure no matter what right a a bad installation in in the US is still be a bad

installation in the UK I don't think that that really separates us from them I think U well but they have different

products I was talking to uh Johnny which is u a associate with Tom and and

Sarah and and they have like flat weaves

and things and we have flat weaves but it sounds like you could get certified in just flatweaves and stay busy almost

yeah yeah there is guys that are just simply Car Guys there's people that simply just wood guys just sanding guys

um and there's very very few that can do most items I probably know two or three

contractors across the country that have got a skill set in multiple different fields so you know we're not um the VT

guys tend to stick with a carpet and then the wood um tend to stay together

um and both there is some crossover but that's they seem to be the the channels

but yeah you can um I I know people that um look at the sizes and Naturals um and

do more of that so and then you've got the I'm not going to call them

enthusiastic diyers but the handy men that can do the laminates um but don't

do any stick down you know they so it's they're not really they're few far

between what I would see but they definitely exist do do you guys have uh

so like over here if you're in the natural fiber that's where you live in flatweaves as well like they don't those

guys are usually you know natural fiber Cil and seag grasses and or saw grass or

whatever you know that's a whole different world from me but they kind of the train is kind of formatted that way um as well

but uh so yeah it's it's funny when I was talking to Johnny how it it seemed

like you know there's such it's more Niche even you know what I mean it's

more Niche over there I over here you gotta have you gotta do more than just

carpet to stay alive and lvt and carpet guys they do tend to um that that is

kind of where if you're a good carpet ler you probably know how to do lvt or vice versa so interesting it is I like I

like the the idea that people are still taking the Artistry portion of the

industry a little more serious somewhere um and the way you explained it that's how I interpreted it so I'm just gonna

leave it like that if it's not like that nobody tell me please I just want to appreciate that for a moment so tell Tom do you guys have you

were talking about kind of that Victorian um did you say

Victorian tiles very small tiles soang and pattern flaw that type of very

very intricate patterns in your lvts yes oh really and they replicate old

Victorian Georgian UK house tows that you would have found in the hallway

predominantly um so yes really sort of nice tile effect

um that's what it is it's very very small like Mosaic tiles basically is is

that in the in the sort of Victorian that seems to really sort of K quite an

expensive but it's still not any of the same prices doing in tile um so it's a modern twist and they're just getting

better and better and better um but they probably retail around 100 pound square

meter I would say um plus your install which tends to be more but but the

finished result is something completely different yeah yeah

yeah really cool I just uh I I think your Victorian era is probably way

fancier than ours so well I I'd never heard of course I'm not in the residential world but um

we you know I've seen some of the uh medallions that are like preut together

they water they just basically water jet the stuff out and it's kind of preut together together and you just put it

together like a puzzle out so I've seen some of the Medallion stuff but um not

where there's any uh overall floor like designed to

the individual lvt that the installer puts in himself I mean it's just kind it's a

medallion in a box and you slap it together and put it together you know cut into it basically

so they brought out um like boed edges that have got complete Curves in sort of 90 Dee curves so you not how so it looks

like they've bent the lvt around the staircase or around a curved wall um you

know that's one piece um but then it's cut in I mean I I wouldn't even know where to start to install it but it's

but the the lvt guys you know it's getting more and more intricate and the

borders seem to be the things that really sort of set things off um

I see the point of sale of it a lot but it again it's the point of sale in the showroom works much better actually on

the floor on the deck um because you can show the borders and things like that on a sample board doesn't quite do it

justice yeah yeah how do you guys are are there um additional skill sets

needed with that or is it literally like kind of putting things together if you're a good lvt guy or they able to do

this without any additional training I think a lot of people are willing to give it a goal because

they've done the borders they've done the sort of detail strips and it's just a little step up from that but there is

training providers that will Deep dive three days just into design work um so

yeah you you can do there's multiple courses in the UK you could you know if you want to really focus on the design

work that you would go and sit to to but it's definitely not mandatory and it's

definitely not something you would get asked in a retail environment have you sat the C it's more to get that skill

set up to say you know to just like anything just get that your level of skill set up

so um so yeah there there is there is multiple training cses for it gotcha now

um awesome do um is there a big need for continued education in the training

there both on the business side and uh the installation side like uh do do more

people lean towards um consulting or uh receiving Consulting and then educating

themselves forther discipline we're the only training provider for business in the UK there is

no one else um you can go and do generic business training um but there is no one that focuses only on the floring

industry um so we're kept busy enough thankfully um but I definitely have seen

a huge increase in the last three three or four years of manufacturer training other training providers setting up um

when I was out on the tools you know you were lucky to get training maybe once every three or five

years with something and it would be a I don't know like um more like a not even

a club but like you know an accreditation you needed to do some commercial work to to do Sports flaws or

things to to do okay operations and that you needed the badge that was approved by the um manufacturer now you could

ring up 10 UK manufacturers tomorrow and say

I'd really like to bring the guys down to do some training um and they would do it they would take out to dinner they

would show you the products and really give you um yes it's a sales ploy to get

you to buy more of that product but it's based on education so they're not going to try and sell you anything what

they're going to show you is the technology behind their product and then you can do your own due diligence and

choose the best suppliers but the education they're doing is is by real guys that have been on the knees um

so and I think it's completely underutilized um where yes the sales

reps the area sales managers are trying to get people on these training they're free um but I think the contractors

should be taking time out of their day their month to do a couple of these because I've done quite a few and every

time I've learned something new um and I've got an alterior motive because I'll go and try them and then recommend them

to my clients and things why don't you take you guys on this but I want to go and sit because I won't refer it if I've

not done it myself but every time I've been to a different one there's something else I thought that was worth

coming for you know these are two and three hour um Journeys to go it's not huge maybe

compared to the state you know going right across the one side the other but you know most of these are in reach two

to three hours of people in the UK um so yeah so it's we we we no no but and

manufacturer yes we talk about this all the time

how how often we we find that people do not take

trainings and there are some free ones from similar situation where you got uh

manufacturers that will do it but again you got days off

travel hotel and and not producing seems to be the biggest thing so having a

merit-based or accredited based um uh reward system uh which is what go

Carrera and the hammer in which we're doing some kind of uh overhauling on all

this but that's where that all comes from is like really good guys that have

good Hammer ratings uh or good scores um should should get paid more and they

should be able to display to the end user why they're worth more and that

that might solve that problem of taking off a day or two because it does have a

future reward Bo in you being able to get more money from the marketplace yeah and

that's there's no way of that in in the UK where you could have done every course and you could have someone that's

done no courses and never been to any sort of education and they could be expected to be paid the same maybe well

and and how would the anybody know like how's the end user know you got you and

me standing next to each other I've never taken a course in my life but I worked for this guy for six months and

think I know what I'm doing and you've taken every course there is and have the certifications and you even got a

certification badge on your van unfortunately the enduser or the purchaser often doesn't

know anything about it like that I know plenty of flooring guys that are on our Network that don't even know where to go

get certified or go get different trainings let alone a homeowner or a general contractor or somebody trying to

hire you to do a job they just don't know so how do you tell and uh so having a way to Market

yourself from a skills perspective and provable that you're a higher quality um

installer than this other guy can validate why you are 20 30 40 whatever

percent higher than him and um we're hoping that that we can with some of our

marketing and and rebranding um and and kind of a new approach at it uh really start to create

this atmosphere where the really good guys get not that when you first get in you shouldn't make money you should but

it should be tied to your skills and experience I mean a doctor is no there's

almost no other trade or skill I don't care if you're a doctor a lawyer

whatever that doesn't get paid as you get more experience and more training if you're a you know a family phys I versus

a brain surgeon we know which one makes more money uh attorneys same thing if you're

a you know intern if you're a a a um the

difference between being a a lawyer and a partner at a firm or somebody who's in

corporate a corporate attorney versus you know a family attorney a family law

like these things have levels to them and so does any trade any skill I think

and uh we're attempting to and you know we've obviously been in talks with you guys about this stuff um but in in an

attempt to get the good guys paid what they're worth and have homeowners and

property managers and contractors know the difference of the the installation

they're paying for uh they may be able we we all may be able to get out of this

low bid guy gets the job kind of scenario I think it's very similar to the not not

the hammer but the the business training we do is not something revolutionary

it's not a golden key it's not a you know big bag of cash what what it is is

making you stand out from the crowd it's making you systemize your sales your marketing your recruitment um your

finances because we all start promly maybe on our knees with one person or on

our own and then we basically guess our way through the business you know yes we

if we train get do training or we learn from other people we can fast forward that but if some quite a lot of guys

literally just get a van and go okay I'm now going to make this up for the next five years and and then we wonder well

why is that company doing better and it could be down to you know um I don't

know like um passing down from family like learning from people that have done it but if you haven't got anyone to

learn from it it's so that coupled with accreditation would you know would get

you let's say a startup business from zero to five years if you worked let's

say your Hammer rating up but then also took the education on the business side um because I remember when you would

first set up you would charge a reasonable rate to win the work because

you feel your your standard is well I'm just learning so I'll just charge this but if if you changed your mindset to a

fiveyear 10e mindset at at year one the cash will start to come in a lot quicker

um and that's it most of the gap between the guys that are earning or not his mindset not quite a lot of the time not

skill set I mean yes fair enough sometimes it is definitely skill set yeah but quite a lot of the time it is

literally there they're getting in their own way that they're incredible installers but they're still charging

what they charge through years ago and yeah it just doesn't make well it does make sense but it's but they get stuck

on this wheel of like just continuously doing the same thing but getting the same results that's why that that you

got to know how to Market yourself and bring your skills out into the to the

Forefront whether it's your marketing skills your business skills your installation skills and be able to pred

present that hey I am I am a better option than the other guy and we have

the same thing that happens all the time guys just they literally it's like two

two guys talk to talk uh over the weekend and jump in a van on Monday and

say we're lnl floor covering

installation give us work and they don't set up a company they don't have a bank account they don't know how um you know

the the the rules for insurance like all the these things and you they just fumble one thing after another until

they figure it out you could Short change this learning curve by getting

with companies like yourself and short shorten the learning curve down to where

you're operating in a high level and that's what that's what I really get excited about when I start thinking

about you know whether it's accreditation and training or business uh teachings is you can it will pay for

itself guys like you can shorten this this learning curve down much shorter if

you get properly trained on both business and the the technical skill I just I just want to just want to butt in

and add to your um your scenario you just explained Paul is you just explained exactly how preferred flooring

got started yeah got got got let go on a Monday Daniel got let go on a Tuesday we

had a van on a Wednesday had our first project on a Friday like like that you just explained it to a tea like

uh what do we gotta do and how many pitfalls did you fall into very very

many yeah very many it wasn't that much different for myself yeah

like I was a installer that decided to go out and give it a go and um I did a

few things different than most installers I paid my I opened a company and I paid myself a salary every week

every bit that made I made over my salary went to the bank account and

that's how I built the business up an actual business uh but not everybody

does that in fact most installers I know they take a job they have no idea if

they're going to make money on it they do the job they pay their help and then

they hope that there's some money left over at the end of the day and if there is great if there's not they gripe that

the market doesn't pay enough you know as opposed to what you're talking about

Tom is like actually setting yourself apart so that you can clearly identify

so that your customer can clearly identify why you're worth more money uh if you're charging the same today as you

did three years ago there then you there's another way there's a better way

and you should you should search that out that's my opinion that's pretty spot on and I I

think if it could be accredited I think it could probably one give this call

more or the commercial more um you have to do it with Gas and

Electric in the UK so why you know why not do it with floring um but even on even a smaller scale which I think um

was a real sort of real take on for me we do very similar training for the last

three or four years and then we did some uh pre-qualification on the telephone so

a client rings in to your shop or to you or while you're out in the van and most

people just pick the phone up and just and and just answer it like a normal um

and what we actually did was we did 40 minutes training H but what I did was we

uh one of our clients led the training and what she was a um husband and wife

team so she ran the office and he went out installing um and so she would answer the phone take a couple of

details go out with some carpet books in her car and and then say choose your

samples and then they would then do a quote and that was it that was the system because what else do you do but

in four year Well since then she's been working with those and took other training um even like from different

business training and she's formalized this complete structure how to on aor

how to work out if the client really is that client for you Shaw's value on the

phone shows interest in the client and probably only goes out to 60% of the

people that have called through um sometimes gives prices over the phone if she thinks it's relevant but now all of

the work she is doing is at this higher level her husbands over the moon because all the clients pay really quick there

never any confusion about product choice or anything like that and it's just so

simple she uses a prompt sheet on every single call that's it so it's again

there's no golden key no magical wand it's a prompt sheet um and that's every

single and this is just residential install um so if there could be like you know if just fling contractors went

through that training that's a tiny 45 minute one hour training but it

literally could change your financial position uh it's change hers it's change of people within our Network that have

done it and the thing that's great is she led the training not me H we discussed it beforeand

the key key birs but but she now is impacting others by a simple piece of

paper so it it we don't need to change the world I think we just need to change a little bit more education rather than

freestyling it um and guessing um because guessing doesn't work all the time I think well and like you started

off it's it's a it's a type of pre-qualification yeah you're you're

pre-qualifying your customer and if you as a premium installer would do that and

just don't take the clients that are not willing to pay for a little uh you know for the extra work or the extra um not

even extra the the the premium type installation where with a company or

with a flooring installer who is going to be there in six months that's another big problem like that plagues I would

say the industry's um visual from like we don't

have the best Optics because people you know an installer will do a job and in

six months he's nowhere to be found not it doesn't have the same number doesn't have the same van doesn't have the same

business name may not even be around at all or if he is he may not be under the

same name or like it's just and and a lot of that comes from just not getting

proper business training on because that's what you're doing you're starting a business even if you're just

installing you're starting a business so understanding your metrics and then really being a professional at what you

are you're a technician a lot of times in the beginning be a pro at being that

you know and take pride in it and uh I think the more we can push as an

industry towards that the the more the healthier the industry gets and I like the the way you you

formatted all that too because what she did was she stumbled Upon a structure that vetted like you said uh prequal or

vetted her client and it slowly as as she went down her sheet is slowly put

them into a category client no client and that was I like

that is you just get better clients is that the bottom line Tom she got better clients she just gets better clients she

just gets better and better clients and she's even gone even one step to the out of comfort zone asking questions such as

have you received any other quot quotes for this job and that's not not so bad

um and that's so that's the first piece of it but then the second piece of what

are you looking to get from me that the others haven't given you like questions like that at the first you know

brilliant sales question but who you know which cont contractors ask that type of question you know so at that

point Mrs Jones would be saying well the first guy didn't turn up to come and look around the second guy didn't even

price the job and the third guy came back with a price for something exorbitant like 10,000 and didn't ask me

any good questions so she said so if I can come within your budget with the right product are we going to be you

know we should be a work together absolutely and she's never met this person so she's getting really sort of

building Rapport and it's not St she's using her personality her sort of

professionalism none of it staged um she just has the prompt sheet so she doesn't forget um and then she also has the

technical side and things like that so she can refer back to the sheet and it's every single call one piece of paper um

and it's worked multiple times for other people but I think it was just great that we deep dived in it on on a zoom

like this with all of our clients across country and it was like everyone's took something from I've took something from

this St yeah well that's a that's a beauty of a training and you mention mened it

earlier is you're probably going to learn something a lot of the other

stigma around uh flooring guys is like they think they already know it and I always tell this story we have a uh two

guys uh that have subbed from us for a long time one of them's now uh out of the

industry but him and his brother they were called the McDaniel uh Brothers one of them still works for us but they had

been doing carpet for a lot of years and we we ended up having a course here in

uh witto and they went to R1 R1 R2 and

then C1 uh so three courses with CFI and

these guys have been doing it for a lot of years but they were the same type they learned from their uncle and thought they both of them came back

raving about how much they learn all these little tricks and and ways to not

have to go back and ways that would make the client happier and just all these

little details and that was a technical training so um yeah I I I'm blown away

when I go to to a course of any sort you're always probably going to learn

something I was gon to say I don't think I've done a course that I've not Come Away with something I really don't think

I've done any and I've done multiple um installer um education business mindset

um emotional every single type of training I've done I don't think I've ever come away and

thought no um you some of it you know may have not been relevant but I still came away with something and thought I'm

going to I'm going to use that so it's yeah it's I yeah I think I'm sure they do

exist but I not ever experienced and I've done lots of training so yeah the roller coaster you just talked about

sometimes that all happens in the same day on the same project yeah it sure

does well we're already nearing our time and as a reminder for the audience Tom is uh

pushing 9:30 probably at this point what time is it there Tom almost 10 almost 10

nearly 10 nearly 10 nearly 10 okay well we're gonna cut it a little bit short today um and thank thank you Tom for

joining us it's always it's always awesome to kind of get you on and and

and hear your guys' mind uh mindset about the industry because not only are

are did did you come from the flooring technical side you guys run a training

program um if that ever gets uh fully online where some us people can uh

partake make sure to let us know because I think that would be amazing absolutely we we can certainly

do things on Zoom we do a lot on Zoom but most of our trains in person at training center both said we do a mini

ones all the time so yeah it's we' love how can uh everybody find that

um there's nothing available I mean the website cockren co.co.com

reached out to us and said look I'm I'm struggling with this I'm sure we could probably help you know or or certainly

invite them into a group environment where we've got other contractors that um and that's what we're kind of doing

probably focusing next year is bringing our high level clients that have been through all the trend to help others

because there's only one me and one of Sarah so the more the more people we can

impact more families we can impact that's what we're there trying to do so you know well if anybody in the audience

if you if this is resonating uh you know let us know and we can definitely get you hooked up with

Tom uh it's cockal uh c c k r i l l yeah

c c e r i l l okay e r i l l and then

okay Co okay cockroll and co.uk right.

co.uk do co.uk all right so hook up with those uh

I'm in contact with cockroll and uh Sarah and I talk to Tom every once in a

while I think I talk to your wife more often but uh we can get you guys hooked up if you want to look into their

trainings one thing I would say is you're you you you you never know what

you might learn from somebody across the pond about how you guys might do a business just a little bit different

than we do that could be a really big benefit so if anybody uh just reach out

to me Paulo cara.com and uh or you can uh reach out to Jose

he'll get in touch with us anybody uh Rand says uh I always say if I'm the

smartest person in the room I'm in the wrong room that's particularly true for you I'm just kidding

buddy all right Tom hey thanks for joining us today man it's a pleasure and thank you for staying up and and uh

having a great conversation Jose thanks again for always being here my man and

uh with that we will uh catch you the next time you're on the Huddle thanks

everyone all right thanks guys peace