The Huddle - Episode 52 - Managing Common Installation Problems
This week the guys go over how to handle and manage common installation issues, on both the business and technical side.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family
welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday at 3 P.M Central discussing
topics that will help you maintain forward progress in your flooring career with me as always Mr Daniel and Jose
Gonzalez the preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan how we doing gentlemen good made it
well you're not in a truck driving across the Michigan somewhere so no no I
just got back actually so that's why I said I just made it so we almost caught you in the truck
almost well you've always pulled it off in one
manner or another I think I've spent a day or two uh of the podcasts and a
in a um vehicle myself yeah so
all right so today um episode 52 we're talking about
overcoming and managing common installation challenges
so you know with with a lot of our subject
matter here at go Carrera we're dealing with you know
the same real big issues are always going to continue to come up so talking
on the micro issues is always kind of a fun thing to do and and I think that's
kind of where we can find those nuggets so you know the challenges the managing
those challenges of installation so let's start with commercial because
that's what because that's what I love let's do yeah and that's what we do the
most of um so what are I'll throw a couple out there that we
have found um and and you get as deep as you want but I think that one of the biggest
installation challenges that we face is a company from the company side and I I
think it also affects our subs uh and their money is efficiency uh getting on the job site things not
being ready um uh you know moisture issues or
really you know the moisture issues you can deal with but it's really like driving three or four hours to a job
site having Crews show up and then the area not being ready that's never happened that's never happened before at
all right yeah only a time or two um so that that's a challenge and I know
it's a it's obviously affects both sides company and the installer the installer
goes all the way out there company goes off of the word of the site superintendent or Foreman or whomever
you know sends guys out there and they go all the way out they spend their
money and time and effort to go out to a job site and then it's not ready they can't install
or I love this one oh that won't take us about an hour to move
you know we have that moved in no time or things like that or other trades being in the
way and I guess that boils down to this accelerated schedules and things that
are happening on job sites I mean we got projects where owners are wanting to sign off on
warranties and every they don't care it's just like get our stuff in and
um so those are the biggest challenges or the the first challenge I'll bring up and and uh there's some ways around it
and go carrera's got some cool features coming out that can help you uh companies and installers to work through
this problem but um you know initially I've just really been pushing back on
um our superintendents I have I've had to work with our our PM team to like
realize that just because they a GC or a superintendent says I want you out here
on Wednesday that doesn't necessarily mean you do that you know you may say look
all right if you're not ready you know I I want proof that you're
ready um that's tough to get uh there's there's
some ways uh Goku is coming out with a video uh feature that allow you to link
that video link that uh superintendent in right out of the gate have them walk it you can mark up the the video As You
Go and show them what needs uh completed or done
um yeah it's going to be awesome but in the
meantime we're waiting on that awesome feature to come out I demoed it with you guys and it was that was a fun time from
one being on a plane to Vegas I think you were still in Michigan and I was in Wichita and we were all collaborating on
stuff it warranted a a phone call right after
the podcast was done because talking about it and visualizing and
then actually going through the process was totally different it was amazing yeah I might use a podcast just to do
you know a portion of it to get a little cells yet not that I don't we don't talk
about go career obviously we do but maybe show that feature um and let that get out there a bit but
in the meantime I think that you have to uh if you have to go out there as the
company which is what I've been telling our guys like we got to send one of our superintendents on or somebody you need
to save your crew that trip and and verify that it's ready yourself in some manner uh right now for us that's
honestly in person until we launch this feature we're doing the same thing we're
going out to the job site um what's your guys's approach to that because I know you do some work that
maybe outside you know most companies will do work you know two or three hours
circumference of their area yeah I think um same thing we've run
into the same scenarios where yeah we're ready we're ready and you know you kind of got to trust the process whether it's
a direct contract through ourselves or through another company you got a trusted line of communication and that
they're telling the truth um after a few times of showing up and
just kind of getting hosed where you show up with a cruise ah it has happened to you you show up with a crew of six
and like you said oh it's only gonna take an hour or two or you know or you
know what you guys can start in this uh 10 by 10 room right here while we clean this up you know you show up with six
guys and two trucks and material and uh you kind of start making the phone calls
and and it sucks to say it like this but you kind of start asking direct questions and giving
information very direct like hey dude if it's not ready I'm just letting you know like this is where what I'm bringing
this is uh what we plan on doing based off of our conversations and the schedule if it's not ready and I gotta
leave I'm not gonna wait two hours I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna charge you for the date I want to charge you for the entire crew it's not fair to them it's
not fair to me um so we've had those conversations yeah like an hour for them if you got
six guys seven hours for you yeah right yeah and
uh they understand it they they everyone acts oblivious to it
um why did they do it Jose why is it that I have walked on to so many job
sites when they say they're ready and it's not ready and then
um the the best I can tell them is you know most the time we'll just jump
in and start helping them move because we don't want to go home we want to work we're there to work and it's like what
what is this new I it won't it ain't new but it's getting worse like come to the
job no windows no HVAC wanting to sign off on LBT being
installed from China and I'm like you know how bad this can be
if I go down to years ago I remember when we used to have like I remember when deadlines were realistic right I
remember when you had a deadline like Hey we're start we're breaking ground we got 18 months for this project now you
know if you go back 15 uh 20 years ago a project that took 18 months they're getting it done in seven now
um from breaking ground to completion and turnover um they weren't until covert happened right until covert happened but I
it's just uh I am positive that the generals and the
contractors are doing their very best to stay on task and keep the schedule
um as planned but it's the same thing and and you know not not to stand up for
them but I know that they're relaying information and and things are not getting done in a
timely manner by other contractors or trades and um and I don't want to say it like this
but uh you know me being a subcontractor they they kind of trust other subcontractors
to hold up their end of the bargain um performance from a company who has
the majority of the other contractors who are in-house actually perform better their projects are in fact ready or they
exceed expectations but if it's a construction management company who's
managing other stubs and other trades you know that's man that's
I don't want to say it like that there's a disaster waiting to happen if one person falls off or if a material is is
back ordered a product the some of the durations the like the scheduling you
were talking about I mean it's almost like they've there's not
been a concerted effort to understand the lead times now on HVAC
and allow for that in your schedule like it blows my mind we do have three jobs
so we're on long before we should not be on them
they're willing to sign our paperwork and a couple of them I think they have the others are like well we we're
monitoring site conditions and keeping site conditions up to date or up to par with what the specs say and
I'm like you know are you keeping them on who's monitoring this stuff at night like you
got 12 hours of the you got half the hours of the day that it's no one's there really monitoring it so and it's
just frustrating Carlos is on LinkedIn he said about the the moving and the
hours and stuff uh do we put anything in the contract about charging per day
and I think that's you can put any anything that you want
when you send it to but they're always going to send you their contract back and then it's supersedes whatever you say anyways yeah it's always their
contract and you can mark it up and we do um but
most contracts State you know that the the GC is driving the the schedule and
that you agree that you're going to be there when when's schedule to perform the work
and you know
it's just it's like the planning before we get there because
I'll give you an example I'm doing a job did a bunch of classrooms and they spoon
fed us half the classroom at a time there was eight in this one wing and it took a we couldn't put six guys on that
we put one one guy in a Helper and
it took them all week to lay those six classrooms maybe even seven days
because it's just like this now you know it's an out of town job
it's still in Kansas but it's pretty far out now I've had this guy out of town to
get 400 yards of carpet and maybe 800
to a thousand square foot of lvt put in and This Crew you know they don't want
to stay out of town another eight days straight so now I gotta transfer in another crew
it's uh so what we did I'll tell you how we handled it is I started just deciding
that would push back to the GC and say no you have it ready this day and I am coming
with six guys I'm not coming with one or two because they tried that stuff that in this big main huge common area all
carpet tile and they want us to start in this corner and then kind of move this way and then they'll move stuff on to it
and all I was like No just get it ready when are you gonna be ready I'm not going to be there that they wanted us
there to last Monday I was like when are you gonna be ready like really right well we had HVAC on since Friday I said
well that's good because we've got several thousand here at the carpet league in that area so thank you finally
for getting that done but when are you going to be 100 ready with
all the trades out of that error well we can't wait till then I was like why when are you turning it over July
17th I'm talking about doing that entire area in a day and a half yeah right like all
of it base and the entire area in a day and a half and so we got to set up like
that and uh we'll see how that plays out but that's like it's almost like not being not being on
the job for elongated times as a flooring guy and then coming in for two or three days and just banging out a
thousand yards you know it almost seems like that I've been flirting with that a little bit and
it seems like it that's working at least on larger projects I mean so that's a
good schedule is my number one like pet peeve challenge for in my uh in my uh
assessment of like installation problems and then we can get into like actual technical insulation problems too and
some other stuff whatever you guys think but that's that's just a tough one for both sides too it's one that affects you
use the contractor and the installers yeah it affects everybody in
what you just said there too that scenario about getting the area done say two days
I know working with the people that we've worked with for for years it's easy for us to negotiate those areas and
do that because they they know that we're going to complete what we say we're going to complete if we say it's
going to take two days if they give it to me it's gonna take two days we'll get it done in two days you can take three or take three
um but I know a lot of other contractors have just been burned by other installers and you know that leaves a bad taste in their mouth and that's
where that's where they're thinking right they are you know everybody is always a worst case scenario
mindset when it comes to putting themselves in a bad spot and and that's where they dwell so
risk management yeah yeah and it's the same thing with uh if we were to hire
subcontractors or have our employees if something goes wrong you don't ever Bank on something going
wrong you bank on everything going perfect and if something something throws a wrench in your schedule for that day and you had an extra day
uh again ask for forgiveness at that point but I think it just goes back to the the conversation we had a few
podcasts back about you know communication right yeah um we just started doing work for uh GC
over here and it was our first project direct through them and I started showing up at at the
meetings you know they say they only want you there if it's like two weeks out well I started showing up six weeks out they're like you're not even you
don't even need to be here right now I said I need to make sure that you're gonna be ready to go when you say you're gonna be ready to go yeah that's a good
point maybe getting to job job meetings earlier that that's that's a good idea
is that literal that was yeah yeah and they asked me why I was there I said
because when this when we get this car my job trying to start installing it as soon as it gets in yeah my scope depends
on all these other guys and what you're telling them right now and then if all those fails like you're
talking about the owners of the sign off I don't I don't know if they relay all the correct information to the owners of
of the facilities or buildings because if you tell them
I don't know maybe I'm different if you tell an owner or tell me that I'm going to pretty much cut the life of a
material or or potentially cut the life of material in half because I'm trying to rush it and then I'm not going to get
the value out of my investment I'm probably just going to want to wait a little bit make sure it's done right
um but that's just me I just said no to a project where they wanted to put and I
talked to the manufacturer and it's cork flooring in a hot yoga studio
and they were like you know what this is this is the method that you can use it's
still not warranted but I've seen it perform and not fail so I'm like all right and then they're like as long as
you don't use the floating system you'll be fine and then they came back hey they're going to buy their own flooring
now so one I lost the sale of the material and then two they want to put floating in there and
I'm like no we're not going to do it and they just came back with well we're never going to use your company I said
that's totally fine it seems like we have different values and I'm not going to install a floor that I know is going
to fail wow
if they only knew you're just trying to prevent a lot of heartache and headache in the future plenty of companies it'll
just come throw in for you why why well we were the third company that he
contacted and I'm the one that got the the correct system in order to do it right everyone else just said they
weren't going to touch it and then as soon as I handed them this is what's going to perform for you
they were like no we want to do it this way well yeah find someone else to do it that way
yeah so I I think that uh
regardless of you know as hard as hard as we both both of our
companies work to maintain relationships and have good communication and stuff I
think it boils down to um
I I think one of the um things that can move the needle the most is what you said about going a
little earlier job site meetings you'll get a real good I think that's a good nugget that comes out of this is like
start going to your job site meetings a little bit earlier than you normally were would I mean like said two or three
weeks out we may start going but get there six weeks and you can see if the HVAC system
is running behind or if the you know and and our documents by the way that to
have someone sign off one of the things that I've learned through going to trade shows and talking
with like you know Jeff and some of the other attorneys that show up to these things is
send it to the GCE you get like our form requires signature by the GC architect
and owner if there's not an architect there's always a GC and always an owner
and if this happens to be the same sign it twice I don't care right there's
there's usually more than just one party involved so we write it up in a way and
where we're trying to be very clear with them and I just give this advice to anybody
who if that's the final straw and you have to eventually what do you do your GC is saying I'll sign whatever you send
me I want you on site next Tuesday like contractually
you're obligated to be there when the GC says and so you send them this document
uh a few pieces I would advise everybody to have list every single possible
failure that can happen right and that's where like I was talking about before
the you have a contract and we're talking about after the contract because once you're in that contract it's
it seems like it'd be a little bit easier to be strong-armed into doing something that you don't want and you
just have to make sure that your bases are covered because you you can't really say well I'm just going to walk away from this job because
you had a contract yeah not without breach of contractor right and that's a major issue now you're in litigation or
arbitration you want to avoid that or they'll just supplement you and then they they'll spend all your money plus
the income and send you a bill for it so there's once you've signed the contract
you're kind of stuck and um if you get in that situation like I said make sure you list every single
possible failure Point whether it's gapping curling adhesive seepage
maintenance issues Complete Flooring failure trip hazards all the stuff we
list as potential failures and then we even list like
common um how did I say it com like the ones that
I anticipate happening on your site most notable common and most notable
failures and I started listing those like these are probably gonna happen on your job
just know that these don't call me uh to come fix I'll come and tell you
how much it's going to cost to fix you know and I put that language all the way through it so that's just a kind of a
sidebar side note so um what other types of deals we got site conditions and job being ready what
other types of installation challenges um well you did touch on moisture right
because that's a huge thing and one of the the biggest challenges is teaching people how to spot moisture issues I
think because once you see something underneath it could be look like wet adhesive but it
may not be necessarily even be a moisture issue right because you can have like a plasticizer migration and
stuff that'll eat the adhesive too and it's not necessarily a moisture issue or anything but
um baby sister was real proud of herself she was on a hospital project one time and there was a bunch of efflorescents
and and stuff like that and she caught it and um thankfully that the the company that
we were working for was like yeah let's fix this now so that way we don't have to later and it it was quite a hefty ad but it
got done right so being able to Spot It and then also talking to your reps
because you need to know the systems to fix it before you and we touched on this before right
don't just present the problem you got to say this is the problem this is the
solution it makes it a lot easier a lot easier for that you know and and that moisture
issue does apply to residential too so like we had an issue where we had a situation where there was an
add-on and it was an old garage that they had added a room over and converted it and this was another Remodel and
stuck to say when we walk in there and I'm looking I'm like was this a garage
I don't know and then we asked the homeowner uh yeah I think it was
no Vapor Barrier so you know it's a garage they didn't have to worry about it so you had to drop that that Obama on
them for the ads too but it's just a
putting yourself in a situation to understand uh that there's educational
classes out there and programs to to help you dive deep into that so you can
spot it a lot easier instead of having to go through all a lot of formal testing just to get the science behind
it look at this let's I've seen this before or I know what that that looks like let's just make
sure um we took a couple classes for that I mean
I mean we take a couple classes for almost everything but well
what are some common signs that you guys
like when you talk about moisture what do you what is the first thing you're looking for when you walk on a
job site you you regardless of you may not be suspecting
but in our field we're always looking for moisture so what are some of the key First Signs so um for me like walking
into a brand new construction site a commercial site just visually I you know I do the old
man Shuffle right feel for imperfections in the concrete as I'm walking and talking but visually I look for
inconsistencies in the concrete for a visual um you know knowing uh spotting what
slabs report at different times and um what ones were exposed to the elements during the time
of the poor and things like that like if you pay attention to that you can see some of the inconsistencies which might
raise some red flags and not red flags like oh we're gonna have to do this but you're going to ask questions and
[Music] some of the people like to answer them some of them don't but you will get your
answers regardless um if you're asking the GC but some of the guys around will say yeah this is
what happened you know we we were pouring the concrete the sun was out it was too hot and it started you
know curing on us really quick we couldn't couldn't do it fast enough or it rained we were doing it and started
pouring down it came down we couldn't cover it on time or you know no roof when we did this this is a lot of different
uh you always try to look at the envelope to make sure that they have Windows Doors and roof is the building
envelope closed if not you're likely going to have some problem then HVAC and
then when you look visually like you can kind of tell that darker
concrete and if you're paying attention you know I've I've called it plenty of
times walking on a job and they're like yeah we better run some early moisture test on this one you know you can just
kind of see it all around puddles here and there uh I've seen leeching up under
the onto the uh sheetrock wall oh yeah on Prime to walls and you can see it
leeched up and I'm like okay this has had water at some point and maybe it's flooded or it's coming through the
concrete and up that drywall or something and so you start investigating and
the the main thing is if you're I mean if you're wondering at all
you better call somebody as an installer and say hey man has this been moisture testing you know like your cruise going
out like if this has what was the reading because it looks because they can change so
having your crew understand that just because you moisture tested two weeks ago uh or 72 hours ago if you're following
the guidelines you're supposed to do it within 72 hours of installation well
can change in 72 hours real quick too you know especially if they don't have proper drainage or something like
that and it is coming through the concrete um we try to look at a lot of those things but
obviously the best thing to do is toss down a moisture task right and then I we I do have to explain
to them because a lot of a lot of people know now about the RH tests and they think that all right this
is the only thing you need but like when there's uh I was just on a
came in early to talk to him and I was like is there a vapor barrier underneath this and they're like no this
was all warehouse space I was like oh yeah we're going to need some moisture testing he was like oh yeah we'll just drop some Pro have someone drop some
probes and I said and you got to do some calcium chlorides too because you know you don't understand that you're not
going to see moisture vapor and unless you cover it in in some cases
right because then the moisture has nowhere to go I said once I yeah once I put carpet
tile on here it's non-porous man it's the moisture is just going to collect underneath and just educating people
about it like that they actually understand they were like 100 we'll get it done
yeah because you can have 75 RH in it and it passes with flying colors but you
can still have high Vapor emissions off 75 80 percent you know so doing both tests although I
admittedly don't do it every time at the facility looks pretty good there's a vapor barrier and the Rh test comes back
at 75 80 85 depending on the adhesive
um we typically overall with that
probably not the best I got I got the the nod of like you better go the next
step mister sir you know to say that we've done it 100 of them uh as well we'd be lying right like like you said
there's a there's a level of comfort and if it's questionable then then yeah by
all means but if you're going in and it you're getting consistent readings and
everything's on the lower levels and you don't feel that there's a need you know you can trust your gut a little
bit but you know just follow all the standards if you feel you need to to do it then
then do it and if you don't don't say Jose said that on the podcast or or Paul
said you don't need to do it if you feel comfortable just well to the contracts and every contract they have it in there
that you need to follow the ASTM standards and they that was straight up put f710 right in anything
resilient well that'll lead to our next challenge which is installers knowing it ASTM f710
and or reading the installation instructions
and really understanding what you're installing um
we've had it happen even recently where specialized products happen to be put in
a specialized way you don't just glue it glue the entire area and start laying
lvt it's a wet set adhesive on this particular job and
got out in front of this guy and it's like dude you can only spread what you can install in 30 minutes it wasn't
clean like this is dead you gotta scrape all this stuff it's gone in fact
last two rows and scrape that up too then reapply what you can install in 30
minutes [Music] is very confusing to some people and
well the manufacturers don't make it any easier some of their debt descriptions is like between five and 75 minutes and
based on slight conditions yeah yeah based on side conditions touch the adhesive if it transfers but not too
much then you know that is exactly how they sounded like in for both
I'm like dude just give me some clear Direction here
but is it little or is it no like yeah like is no okay one line or two lines
like I my fingertip is I can get five lines on there but little to know like which one is it yeah
yeah there's a so I think the manufacturers make that even more difficult but open times and and staying
informed like the cruise it's hard for a company to then get all the crews
informed on stuff that we get to know I wish there was like you know
Facebook's terrible for it but it'd be nice if there was like a just a quality form of like new installation guidelines
as they come out just a thread you know and it's split between like carpet
resilient Hardwood and tile and like when a new tile grout
comes in it's on a bulletin under that that form you go in there and you can look at you know new product releases
new new ways of installing you know shortcuts found by experts that
kind of stuff is that what floor cloud is planning on doing in the future
you know I don't know if that um you know they do a lot of
what floor Cloud does really good the real light in my opinion key value is
you get to load in the products that you're doing on the job site so it'll do all that figuring for you
um as far as um product releases and things like that
I hope so they'd be primed to do so in their with all the aggregation of that
material data they'd be best suited properly in the industry at least
currently uh for that information to be shared
um but I tell you it'd be it'd be nice just to have because you I
guess you can go you know what's an installer gonna do he's going to Google it if he doesn't no
and and what hey they should Google it whether they do or not is yeah we want
them to to Google it if you do not know we tell them like Google is free use it
like or or reach out you know we get we get calls all the time hey I've never worked with this before
and then you know I can say this is what we did the last time but let me I still
need to look up to see if anything's changed and uh when when Crystal and I were down in Georgia I I think I brought
that uh question up about uh a QR code for a live scan on a bucket and and immediate updates but it would be
industry-wide right and um I won't say the manufacturer but they said that
their website is updated as everything happens so in order to find out you got
to go there and check it out um which is okay but you know not everyone's gonna do that all the time
um but if if there were alerts if there were a way to become a member of that manufacturer and receive alerts uh to a
specific app or anything like that with material updates or changes that would be great well at the very least
Google it like yeah I know that sounds pretty simple but pick up your pick pull
out your phone GTS Google this
[Laughter]
we don't need another Paul mishap let me just type it for you guys
all right so we talked about side conditions uh moisture issues and kind
of identifying those early on from an installer standpoint what do you
guys do you guys deliver all your materials to the job site or do they come and pick up from your
Warehouse both yeah both because we like just like
you we have our in-house and then we also have Subs so like yesterday I met
someone at because we're doing some residential projects so I'm Adam on site brought the stuff out there
so that way he can install it today yeah so I asked that question because
um I I went through Facebook to find a lot of griping and the griping that I was I
was just trying to see like all right well this is a bunch of installers and this next podcast is on installation
challenges what are they what's what's being said salesman now it's it's heavily skewed
residential on most of the Facebook stuff so but so salesmen in general
selling stuff that they don't know themselves how to not only how to install but that
it's the right product for the job now I think that's more on residential because in commercial laws you guys know you got
more like professionals picking it at least to an extent an architect or
designer who's been doing it especially seasoned people they kind of understand you're not going to be putting carpet on
a pool deck or something you know like you're not doing these silly things but
salesman that a residential shop especially like the if they're they stay
there and they never even visit the the client's house or anything man
that seems to be a pretty big grade salesman selling things that it's not the right fit and the installer is like
I don't want to install this in here I don't think it's going to last I don't think it's going to work and and then
you look in the comments and it's everything from walk away okay well that's
those guys that just kind of want to put in a room and say is that your answer to everything just to wipe your hands clean
and walk away I mean I don't know that that's the best solution maybe but then
you could call the salesman and they just say install it and you're like and you feel like you're stuck between a
rock and hard place then so you know I also understand their side of
wanting to just walk away uh but the comments go from everything from just walk away to
you know write a letter stating that you're uncomfortable with the installation send them an email right
from your phone I thought that was a pretty good suggestion like hey send them an email and say I just want you to
know I'm completely uncomfortable installing this this flooring in this situation I don't think it's the right
product from my experience per our conversation earlier you told me
to continue on anyway I just wanted this to be noted that I am doing so with uh
you know not rioting but like great Prejudice
right and making sure that that you communicate with the sales team before you communicate with uh the homeowner or
end user is is really good too because maybe there's something there that they didn't know they overlooked and they can
find some resolve right away before everyone goes oh this material blah blah
blah I can't do this crap you know because then you're ruffling feathers you don't need a ruffle so it's about professional yeah guys I mean you you
know the old same loose lip sync I mean yeah you know just griping about it
on site for everybody to hear isn't the best solution either call your call your salesman or your project manager whoever
back in your company and talk it through with them but I it looks to me like
there there's almost this feeling it seems like they're they're truly between a
rock and a hard place like the materials on site the homeowners out of the house the only day you're going to do it you
go tell the homeowner you're not going to do it you've just caused a shitstorm for lack
of a better word um they almost feel forced and I thought
that at least putting your um your reluctancy to do that project in
writing and sending that to your salesman uh is at least put some level of risk management for
the installer so I think that's a good thing to do like if it ain't right and you know it ain't right voice your
opinion and that way you have some level of protection when you if something was
to go wrong and also another another thing too like um early on
um in our careers we I started being proactive you know once I hit a couple projects where there was
information that was left out or no one knew or the salesperson had no knowledge
of um I started being proactive and asking those questions well what about this
area and this area right here and why are we doing it with this method and not this do they understand that this might
happen in this and then people kept telling me like you ask a lot of questions I'm like well I hope you're
taking those because this should be your there should be your template for the next project so that way I don't have to
ask you these questions if you're taking notes so you learn the next time yeah and seriously that was a real
conversation and that wasn't wasn't doing it to be to be an ass that's all I was doing it because I
didn't want to show up to someone's home or someone's business on a project ready to rock and then as soon as I'm there 10
minutes in have to say excuse me Mr homeowner excuse me Mr business owner or
Mrs I I got to step outside for a minute like they're going to understand the body language right because you're going to get in there nobody hides that nobody
walks in and goes oh this looks great hey I'll be right back they walk and they go hell oh no oh um excuse me I'll
be back yeah um so it came back to the communication thing right it all falls back to the
same thing and are you dealing with a salesperson who's 10 years in 20 years in or two years in right
yeah salesperson is somewhat your audience as well you have to know who you're dealing with and know it matters
yes it does matter 100 x installer never install the day in their life like
there's we work with a gentleman uh Bob known him for 25 years now and
X installer like that dude he is on it and if he forgets something it's very rare
um but he's also that salesman that if he does forget something he's like just do it right I'll cover it yeah
his jobs are real nice because uh he's either got like 200 extra yards or he's
two boxes short [Laughter] it's not that bad
so the the what other challenges because you know you got your day in day out like
technical stuff and I think that's really boils down most times to training
and equipment do you have the right training to do it and do you have the right equipment to do it both of those
boxes are checked really the bulk of the problems or what we're talking about now
Manpower you you don't ever know when someone's gonna have an accident someone's going
to be sick or someone's going to have an emergency um that that's always going to be a
challenge right and the smaller the company the more it affects you um you know because
if you have five people working in your company and you lose one person you just lost 28 of your Workforce uh yeah if you
look at it like that uh and is
it's just one of the things that you have to learn how to deal with like I I think uh I still have a hard time dealing with
that but learning to you can only control what you can control or hey like hey
griping about it for two hours in the morning and making a big deal about it isn't solving anything you have to set
that aside and and be part of the solution not the problem and figure it out
yeah so do you have means of when somebody gets
hurt or you know gets sick one day what what's your first thing
[Music] a stage last week you know
um I'm gonna be installing carpet tomorrow you know we employ 40 some people at my company and have uh
you know 60 70 Subs on top of that but still not partially because I still
actually enjoy the stuff I know that a lot of them you know I still do but the
other part of that is uh I enjoy teaching so I'll have my uh a bunch of
my leads with me on this job and just teaching them making sure they understand how to properly set up a job
because most of I'm not fast because I can cut faster
than another guy I'm fast because I know how to set up a job to where it flows in
a manner that everybody stays busy very fluid-like yeah that's what I like doing
when I walk on a job is make sure that it's set up and you know patching starting here and there and there
pull out take measures start and put down lay lines while the patch is going down and doing things in a sequence that
ends up getting the the job done faster but so proper setup of the project is is
where I I like to but yeah sometimes you gotta knee pad up I do think communication is another piece to that
it's like call it like you said and it's funny how a lot of these things go back to good
communication but you know if you're not going to have a guy because someone's sick and you you can't
you know back film with another guy well then what do you do other than call your
superintendent and your project manager or your homeowner and you're like Hey we're going to be down a couple guys uh
we'll we'll look at the whole schedule and the entire team and say what jobs
are not in trouble at all is and can we pull from yes and state and maintain
over there but not maybe knocking out of the park to knock it out of the park over here so sometimes just
communication and scheduling um on large construction sites pushing in a
day or two is not the end of the world pushing Miss Jones kitchen that she moved out of we actually had one of
those this this this week right last week last week last week uh um our guy that we had scheduled to do the carpet
um had a definite family they need to deal with and it put him a day behind he ended up losing a day of work and he got
put a day behind and he was trying to stay on task but it
just it couldn't catch up and it's just like at that point it's like hey dude don't worry about it man we got it calm
collected and then Susie hang up the phone's like oh man we got I don't know how we're gonna do it
you know what um uh baby sister she's a miracle worker sometimes she stepped up and you know
we got everything done everything uh it went smooth it pushed us a little bit behind to start the week yesterday but I
went in the field yesterday and and today I got put behind by a family emergency this morning so
uh well there's always something gonna come out that's why you got to be skilled at these uh problem resolutions
because I mean the fact is it's every week I would venture to say every single week
we have somebody sick not show up uh you know some some manner of
something not going the way you planned it to go right so we got to just be
experts from from our side uh of the coin from the company side at
solving those problems and moving guys around like puzzle pieces almost like chessboard to where's your best next
move yeah um so yeah I mean I guess at the end of uh
you know we're talking about installation challenges though do do you feel like
the big whether you feel like is the biggest
problem you would like like if you could build the just perfect subcontractor
what is that subcontractor look like and and how how is it that their approach
addresses some of these issues we've talked about does that make sense like if you could build the perfect sub what are they
doing that solves a lot of your problems showing up when they things are scheduled punctuality
um willingness to continue their education so that way you don't have to babysit all the time uh right and make sure they
have the information you trust that they have the information um
some sort of a middle to ground higher level of professionalism
um someone who you trust to to have a
great communication on site with clients with you with your staff
um able to articulate issues um
I mean so communication professionalism yeah
um from uh uh maybe a hard skill or more of a uh you
know like equipment the right tools yeah that that that and
obviously the right training so training tools
um communication professionalism yeah and
and some of the other things are blanketed in in those right there too like the Danish reliability
uh you know punctuality stuff like that it's kind of blanking it in the professional no that probably gets blanketed into actually caring about
your customer and who's going to be who's walk and you can tell your customer Flooring by who's going to be
walking on the damn thing when it's all said and done and caring about their experience on
your on the floor you installed so you know that they're going to be on it on time some of the best subs I know are
the ones who actually care that the owner is going to get in their building on time well you know
that if it doesn't just care about getting your job done for you but they
actually care about the owner getting in on time the school's starting on time they feel the pressure with you that is
exuded on to you as the company from your general contractor your homeowner they feel the pressure with you without
you having to apply the pressure you know what I'm saying like that guy that just gets he gets on site he knows he
lost a day he calls you hey man I lost about a half day because of you know
this they cut these saw joints in on a eight by eight grid instead of 12 by 12.
so I had three quarters you know 30 percent more solid joints to patch but
I'll catch you back up tomorrow that kind of guy that just gets it that's been the most beneficial and he
seemed that those types of Crews seem to be naturally more equipped and more
trained yeah buried their ads on to how Daniel is how
we used to be is you know in in our today saves three hours tomorrow right and if you look at a project where
you're there for a month that three hours that you save every day or four times a week four days a week it
ends up at the end of the project because a deadline's a deadline you can't make up 24 hours in in eight hour
day in 24 hours yeah yeah yeah right yeah yeah and
so so any any advantage in install installer or
installation crew could get by Saving Time for the next day is Super beneficial and I know it's hard to view
it that way um as an employee I mean I've always viewed it that way as an employee anyway
but I know that we've probably Cut From a Different Cloth but it's investing your time and not spending it
right yeah it sounds like you know you invest that one hour and you you get any
investment you expect to return on your investment or an Roi well if you're rois three hours
like your example that Daniel had well there you go invest that hour because
it's going to pay you three hours back every day or maybe an hour a day on a week-long job you just you just got
given back seven hours of your life almost so and not only that is hey you
work a couple long days Monday through Thursday Fridays ends up being a shorter day because you save some of those hours
um you know and uh for for some people the sooner you get a project done the sooner you can roll into another one
um I don't know very many successful individuals or installers that
like to work three days and take three days off right I don't I was told by a
guy last week that was in my office here at go Carrera that uh you know down south they like to work
three to five hours a day and Fish on Fridays and I'm like how does he how do
you get any work done we we worked in um Oklahoma and Iowa on some commercial
projects long ago and we went there and with a small crew me Daniel Charles
who's with us again um and some other installers and we went there and banged out these movie theaters like boom
the local guys came up to me it's like can you guys please stop working like that and I thought it was a joke
I was like what are you talking about because of you guys they're gonna expect us to do that and we're not trying to do
that and it's like well you know I'm from Michigan dude there's a reason they called me here
from Michigan um and I'm trying to get back home to my family uh so the sooner I get these jobs done
the sooner I get to go home and I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary I'm just working like what I feel is normal
um and that was that was a rather odd conversation because he was serious and I was like oh
and that was a long time ago that was like 20 years ago yeah I still remember like it was yeah that's still a great
story hey dude did you slow down it was a real conversation
that's funny well I I
think that our our time together every single week always turns into
you know diving deep on stuff that kind of has a similar tone
yeah and that that and why is that because the big issues are still the big
issues the big issues of these accelerated schedules and trying to get
work done in less time and lower budgets and just all this constraint causes all
this heartache really I mean if you have ample time to get I mean most GCS know if you gave them
like a bid and we're gonna award the the job to the GC based on
who we think is most um reasonable on their time frame not
the fastest but the closest to actual reason and that's how you awarded bids then a
GC could put the pieces in they know how to build a building the problem is they agree to these condensed schedules that
these owners want from them which I love all you owners out there but at the same time when you constrain
those schedules I had a conversation with a very large client of mine in the same regard and
we do a ton of work directly with them and then we do some work through a GC or several GCS that on bigger projects for
and he pulled me aside we I had given a talk actually on concrete moisture
which is like the management people the uh you guys probably have a local ifma
chapter there uh you might look into it if everybody else but it's uh iafma so
it's like the international facility management association or something like that anyway I was given a talk about
concrete moisture and my client I had never met he was the head guy at the
facility came up and said hey I never met Stewart and we started having a conversation he's like you know you kind
of had a little bit of a struggle on that last job because I'm not used to having any problems with your company
and it's like well I understand but just so you understand I won't throw
anybody under the bus but when you have a someone else in the middle like a general contractor who dictates our
schedule you're not getting the same level of what we provide you when we're working directly with you because we
tell you we're going to be there on this day then we could be there on this date there's nothing in our way
from being there and Performing the job the way we see it but when we get to a job that has a GC involved and someone's
in the way and we can only do this little area or we can only work for two to three days then we gotta leave well
then the GC calls and wants us back uh they call on a Monday and they want us
back there on a Tuesday where we can't get the same crew that started the job and it's like it brings a lot of other
Dynamics so I just wanted you to understand that so I explained that all to him but those are real life problems
that if those we're always going to have to be Masters at communication
at problem solving and and being agile I think those those are we just have to be
good at it you know um yeah I don't see those really big problems changing overnight
you know I don't think any of the big problems will ever change overnight even if you're prepared for it the night before
yeah it's every GC is going to be a little bit
different everyone's going to react a little bit different uh everyone not everyone is always going to see it
from from our perspective and we're not always going to see it from theirs and you know
I really enjoy working with the companies and the individuals that we've had the pleasure of knowing for a decade
or more because I don't want to say we don't get our way but we come to an
agreement a lot sooner a lot quicker right and we come to an understanding
and yes even though you can't really hear my voice but they really hear the
words right and and they understand the systems now and and we appreciate everyone or the return business and
understanding of what we're trying to accomplish yeah I I mirror that same to to all the
clients we've gotten to work with you know but to maybe piggyback a little bit you know
all that stuff all those variables every job site's different every Project's
different with a different GC well you can have the same GC with the different pm and different super and it's a whole
new experience you know so all those things all those variables are always
there it's what I love and hate about the the construction industry in general
I love the fact that not every day is the same but sometimes I hate the fact
you know right why can't I have just an easy day today well because they all every single day in the flooring
industry in particular but in construction is a a new day with a new set of of problems to solve so you know
if you don't like problems this isn't the industry for you you gotta like to find and resolve problems I think
there's still more good days than bad days though I will say that even though it doesn't seem like it when the bad
days hit the good days still far out number of the bad days everyone amen admit it or
not yeah I agree well gentlemen we're at four o'clock believe it or not
um you mean five o'clock Five O'Clock Somewhere
we do we burn burn through our our hour um just a recap good communication
was a big part if you're an installer showing your professional uh
professionalism by being on time you know being Dependable uh what is Dependable it means people can depend on
you if I can depend on you actually caring about the client and the client
isn't necessarily always the person that you're working directly for it's the person that's the end user that's going
to be using whatever you're putting down yeah yeah not just the guy that's paying you or the the company that's paying you
100 is going to be used in that space you care about them you'll you'll pretty
much do a good job because I mean you can get through a lot of stuff if you're caring about the right stuff you know the right thing so
yeah and you know I I can't say it enough you're when you guys brought up communication that's always a lot of
problems and Link with go Carrera if you haven't seen it and you're in the audience you're going to be blown away
when we start demoing and showing video of this stuff uh it'll tremendously help
with the communication piece uh I've got a few more rounds that I got to do to you guys I want to do a couple more I'll
show you some things we've tweaked so we've got a few more a few more tests with the with everybody but um yeah I'm
excited to roll that feature out to everyone and and and hopefully save everybody some time and money so if
you're watching it on YouTube consider giving us a like And subscribe I know we're not uh talking about AI all the
time although we did get into that last week we're not we're not necessarily talking about the most interesting
subjects on the planet but we are talking about other people which may be the most interesting so you know we're
talking about Tradesmen and women who put food on their table by putting in you know by using the skills in their
hands and the talent in their brain and so um I think all of our our mission
here is to elevate the the Tradesmen you know and uh what they do for all of us
so the building you're you're working in um the house you're sitting in
um the car you drive is likely done by a skilled person and so value what they
give to our society and value what they give to to you and your family so with
that we'll sign out you guys got any last words no thanks thanks everyone for joining
all the time we like we get a lot of the same return people on live and stuff like that so
um actually I have I have a question just to throw it out there for people to answer what can sales team who give you guys
the projects do better on their end to make sure um that your checklist is is checked and
marked for what you expect I would like to see some ideas maybe we can um
throw it in the comments and if you guys have any suggestions on topics or things you'd like us uh to to discuss or bring
an expert on we can do that as well um but if you have any I anything that
you'd like to see tag us on in your group uh tag the guys uh in your
Facebook group about a issue we might just post this as the question what topics uh on the Facebook
um on our Facebook page and and maybe throw it in the groups as well but if you have any suggestions for topics or
things you'd like for us to go over even if it's very specific on a product on how to install a certain product even if
we don't know we can get you the right resource and get you guys plugged in so reach out to us if we can help and we
will see you guys next week all right see you all right see you guys thank you