In this week's episode, the guys bring some special guests in live from CFI FCICA 2023 Convention and Tradeshow to discuss a little about the upcoming show, as well as best practices when it comes to an installer moving from a one-man-show to a full blown installation crew.

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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

um my typical intro is a little off but uh we're going we're gonna hit into this so

um welcome everybody it's just me today uh the two studs are in Orlando at the CFI

fcica convention I'll be joining up with those dudes tomorrow and as well as the

uh Princess uh you know what I'm not sure if crystal is

going to be there to be honest with you because Miss Crystal Sims is uh also

competing uh at the regional qualifier for the

um installer challenge coming up at Tyson in uh January so installer of the year

so uh you guys have me and the boys will

join when they get on from uh whatever they're doing hey

fellas so as stated they're down in Orlando and

uh at the show and uh what's up guys

they're still connecting so I'm going to start off with giving you uh a quick overview of what we're going to be

discussing today obviously the guys are down at the uh fcica and CFI show but

today is around managing installation teams now this particular topic is more so the

installer who then hires some other installers and kind of has uh you know a couple Crews working with him and he

starts managing um those Crews and taking on more work

and some of the tips tricks and strategies uh and particularly some

shortfall or pitfalls that we we've experienced over the years in working

with Subs who've went through that progression so can you guys hear me there down in fancy

Florida they may hear me but we can't hear them

so voice check voice check not working okay

so I'm gonna lead in and these guys will join in whenever they get the audio set

up so you know it's it's a pretty common progression when an installer goes out

on his own there they are on the court it's a port we can hear you guys

can you hear me now yes sir can you hear us

yep are set up so what's up fellas

how was the trip scramble mode is all

the trip the trip is good it was uh I've been down here for a few days already Daniel and them got down here yesterday

um I mean it is what it is you used to be on a plane it was just a standard flight

Maybe sweet I don't need that well today

um as I previously stated we're going to be going over managing installation teams and and really what that boils

down to is um an installer going through the

progression of maybe he was an hourly or a helper with someone or an apprentice and then became an installer himself

or herself and then decided to grow their team and start taking on more work

it's a pretty standard progression with a good installer is that they will take on the uh additional

um you know Manpower or team up with some other guys and uh start doing more

work so that being said the

um a couple of the pitfalls that I've experienced in this progression is

you know overestimating what that what one of your Crews can do and taking on more work then you have the capability

of actually completing um we've seen a lot of guys get into

trouble with that also in that same vein is is maybe

overestimating their ability or that they're going to treat the job the way you would so in both Accords

accountability is a kind of a key component so if you're a installer and

you're running a few subs or a few guys working with you as a sub or a few Crews

[Music] the the key is accountability like you know checking in with them having uh

conversations about your quality um as well as making sure your crews are

trained uh the the the biggest Pitfall that I've seen is

um we award a job to somebody and they have one of their Crews do it and the

quality expectation is not there um and it doesn't match what the lead

installer who we've worked for worked with for many years uh may have been you know capable of

delivering and what we're used to receiving from that uh that particular crew so

all I can say is make sure that you place your cruise uh or your your even

if they're on your W-2 and you're paying them by the hour or however your

Arrangement is just making sure you understand their capabilities and that you put them on jobs where they're going

to be successful are you guys uh audioed up and and I think we're good now can you hear us yep

well you guys rock stepping away from from from the

activities down there um will you guys

you know to drill down on this do you guys use subs and and

um have you guys experienced some of that where you're used to working with a certain guy and he's hired another

another um crew and and he's running two or

three crews and running himself and then you get a job that's not quite up to par

from a quality or performance standpoint um I don't I don't think we we

personally have not run into that right because if we hire someone direct um we're

we know that we're hiring an album they don't have someone else that that's coming in so I can't uh personally say

that we've experienced that however we have been that sub before that needed

extra outside help um and have reached out to uh you know ex-employee who's on their own or

someone who we've worked alongside to help us out and the work hasn't been up to par so

um that has happened and I totally get it I understand and um

we are always open and honest about that situation when it when it happens like Hey we're a little bit overwhelmed right

now in order for us to make this happen I got to bring somebody else on um and

they're fortunate enough we we work with people who are very understanding and

we understand that we uh full responsibility to remedy anything that

that individual who is helping us out uh has done wrong or may have caused so but

we've been pretty fortunate it's only been in a couple little things and they've always been minor but but that's about it and a lot honestly a lot of the

a lot of the downfall to some of those experiences has been communication right uh the other person just doesn't

communicate the same way we do or the same way we had the the people we have the the

luxury of working with uh become accustomed to yeah yeah communication seems to be that

foundational piece that always comes up in almost all of these come uh podcasts and it's because it's such an uh

important part of of getting uh work done especially when you're talking

about working with a you got a new guy going to a job and and all the moving

factors on a project that communication becomes like the most important thing

um yeah we've we've experienced that we've had guys that worked uh you know with us for many many years and then as

they got more and more work more and more capabilities got to know some other people in the industry that bring on new

Crews or new team members and leave a guy or a gal even uh on the

job site and not the the same level of communication

expectation and quality and all those things just they're they're not the same

now we've also had to work out plenty of times and the times that it's worked out

it's it's been where they communicate with the main guy or the main person in

a high quality Manner and then that person communicates with us the way we're used to and then it works and when

when I would also say on a quality front the guys that uh the cruiser that perform very well uh

under this condition are ones that value getting their team

trained or sending them to certification courses or or what have you uh one of

our larger Subs has a couple of Crews that are just phenomenal and he's invested in them by sending them to you

know protect all uh training he invested in one and got them uh CT sent them to

CTI certification course and so on the tile side so when you're making sure

your team is as well trained and capable as yourself that's when success can

happen but remember that communication is always key yeah 100 and um

it to add to that too because you had mentioned something early on about uh uh setting up for Success right not in

those words but sometimes you got to put your guys out there in awkward positions for develman

for you to find out if they could if the outcome is what you need if

they're going to perform Under Pressure if they're going to be able to delegate tasks uh and Runner crew right someone

who's got their best hand skills might not be the best lead someone who's a really good lead might

not have all the knowledge that they can move move the parts around where they need to be

um and it yeah as Mr Robin Thompson's here by the

way instead of him commenting here look let's just add him to the let's add them

to the couch oh let's hear this old man just sit down here hey what's up Roland from your buddy

good to see you sir my comment was so many times a fantastic

coach whether it was football baseball whatever was not always the best player

in school or a player in college but they had that knowledge and they had that talent to know how to put the

pieces together to make a a good team it's the same thing in our business you

know it's not always your guy that has the best hand skills that has that best knowledge of how to

put a project together especially on a big commercial project he has to be able to work with the team

he's got to work with the GM he's got to work with the designers all right work with the Air Tech so your your guy were they good hand

skills is good at performing that but not always not always good at lining

that up for that performance to go jump yeah I don't know if that's all you

were talking about but that's well that's that's the bulk of what we're talking about and that's a good point is

you know we talk about making sure that your team is trained but you got to make sure that you have the the capability

and that you're equipped to be able to manage and run other people because managing people is what you're doing

when you start um bringing on new team members and sending them out to projects you got to

be able to be a efficient awesome uh you got to be an efficient

manager and not always have to be the absolute best installer yourself but you

definitely have to be a good manager of other people and and that's what is this is um

understanding people finding common ground uh being able to really really

relate um as far as lingual lingual and uh

if you're a people person you're a people person right it doesn't matter what crowd you're in um and that's a lot of the battle right

there and like say all the time we just started again today communication if you know how to communicate with many

different levels of people um you're going to find success in leadership

um it's just hard to stay away from a leadership role or position if your

communication skills are are better than your uh your hand skills or your

execution in anything that you do well it's sort of Give an example that I can

come from me all right I'm here I couldn't be here without

my guy back at home all right I do the trainings for I had it was at a

point in my business that either I was gonna have to cut back the trainings I do come back you know TV

stuff I do and give more time there because I was you know I needed to give

it to it so instead I went out and knowing people

I know I got the best salesperson in the area he's always been known

everybody's sought after him he knows he's been selling and his dad had a store he knows how to order he knows how

to schedule the guys he knows how to close deals right

so I went out and got him put him there so when I'm gone I can feel confident

that my business is back there running so could he could he install a single

lick no he can't all right is he a financial wizard no he's not all right

but is he a wizard when it comes to selling and closing the deal in hand calling the manufacturers follow and

tracking orders he knows how to do that and he's very very good at it all right well that's what I needed him for

all right so that's when you're an installer and you're looking at or

you're running Crews or you're looking at jobs you need to look at the person that can enhance what you can't do or

what you might can do but you have other things to do so you look at that hole that's missing in your in your company

your business and you then feed it with somebody that knows how to do that and

in that case in my case is my sales team all right um but in the case of an installer like

I said it could be somebody that that might not have the best you know

skills at everything but has the skills that you need yeah it's a good point I I

it brings up another question so you know so often installers because

they're good a high quality guy or or just a high quality crew in general will

get more more and more offers for work and for projects especially in the

commercial world I'm sure it's the same in the residential world and then they they get this feeling like

they got to go get more people what you're kind of in alluding to is

you better self-evaluate and find out where your weak points are so that you can hire to accommodate for those weak

points so if you're not the best scheduler and the best person at following up maybe hiring someone like

that and you stay out on your knees installing if you're that good with your hands until you get somebody that can

help you kind of run your cruise and schedule and and do that piece so a

little bit of self-evaluation it sounds like is necessary uh kind of filling

those uh you know we'll call them Talent holes yeah and I that's what I was more

or less relating to is that you know I had my need I had my wants that I wanted to do

and that was to keep training and keep doing that stuff so I looked at my need because I could have done it I could

have stepped back and done it but I had to give up what I like doing right so I looked at my need and then I looked at

and evaluated who I could put in that need that could fulfill it right so the same thing like you said you know you

get installers and they wouldn't want to get big and get more crews and more crews I did that years ago when I when I

subcontract you know I brought on more guys and I was running multiple Crews and you know and I ended up working more

hours because I didn't you know I was young I was hungry of getting all I cared

about is I was doing every job in the area everybody was calling me but

I wasn't really getting anything more at the end of the day because I was busy going back

because guys got called in sick and and I had to go fill it in so I had to work 18 hours that day because I had to do my

job and the other job so it's not always you know those days you know

you know and so it's not always getting bigger if you decide to get bigger which

is great because there's a lot of successful bigger outfits but if you go back and find you're going

to find they had a person there that had the talent to tell good talent you know

they sort of understand so they they hired smartly

and they grew smartly so you know my I

guess advice to somebody who's thinking of that or were doing that would be don't jump to it higher and look smartly

yeah so this will be strategic in your hires and your intention and and understand the pitfalls I think uh was

that uh Gino uh Gina Wickman has a couple of books that that refer to EOS

the entrepreneur operating system right um right people the right seats like

like I didn't know until we read that book I didn't know until it was presented to us

but it just something so simple makes so much sense right and that's what he says

he says uh Myers slow I am actually in the talkout group with you your sister

little baby sister oh you better get in there and we're supposed to get up and Dave said I can't get up front and

present it because I do all the time so I said I'm out of here he says you better be coming back

I'm going back yeah thank you thanks for joining us and

I appreciate your input sir hey no problem you guys have a good show I got to get back into the into our breakout

duty calls yeah that sounds good dude he calls you did it kind of ditched them a little bit and they broke

up into groups and then uh but yeah it's all right

so um well it's interesting having Rollin come

in and and chat through that I wish I'd had one I had one more question for him which was specific pitfalls that he seen

um because I I when I was a sub and I had uh my careers

I did the same as everybody which uh or I should say I did it the wrong way I

won't say I did the the same as everybody I did it the wrong way I just started filling bodies with installers

and then had the same exact thing that Roland was uh alluding to there which is

a guy wouldn't show up no call no show and I'd have to still get that client's

day's worth of work done even though I had my own crew going and it's like you

just want to add to try to fulfill the need because there's so much if you're a

good installer there's a ton of work out there and um trying to fulfill that need and I

kind of had the same ego that Roland was just talking about I just cared that I was doing all this work and wanted to

drive by building say I did that when I did that when I did that one uh but at the end of the day if it's not done

right um you know if you don't realize it yourself that

you're not the best manager of other people then maybe you should hire that role first and then start to build your

your cruise out um that that was a pitfall for me like Roland said I was young as well and just

we do the same we we tried to get too much work like you look at it like oh if I get more

work I'll be more profitable the business will be more successful and you know as I was just talking with uh or

texting with my buddy Ray who actually got me in the flooring industry um uh with him the other day is you know

he's he said I've hit this dollar amount and this much money is net profit so far

this year and I said you know more people doesn't mean more profit and he

said it took me so many years to understand that you know and that's what we did we got

too many people too many crews going we're putting out fires uh babysitting a

lot margins went down the overall dollar amount went up right don't get me wrong

like it went up but what was left over after it went up

wasn't worth all the headache and the hassle like and that was young business mind naive

not knowing what to do and not understanding the the that concept of right people right seat

um and that thing applies to way more than just running a business right that applies to your crew you know a crew of

two crew of three you don't want the wrong person talking to the clients you don't want the wrong person installing

uh material they're not comfortable with because the other person I have seniority I got to go talk to the client

you know is that like you got to be sure yeah a lot of the intentions a lot of the the larger Crews that do

well have a a point person a a a not necessarily

even just a salesperson but like an assistant that schedules the cruise and

make sure that you know they have everything I wish I would have thought that way back then I

just hired more people while I'm doing the payroll I'm figuring out who's going

well where I'm managing I'm making sure they got gas in their truck I'm you know

all this stuff and then I'm still trying to install it it was a mess that's where you you'll

get the title of CEO Chief everything officer yeah well I was

uh that times two it felt like you know you're doing absolutely everything and

like you said it it did not turn into a greater bottom line for me uh it turned

into certainly more money but more headache and like said if you if you evaluate

those um is is juice worth the squeeze and so you know

yeah and uh so I I I think getting somebody there that can help you manage

the timing of everything and that would that's a that's a a key component I see

in some of the bigger Crews that they have more than just the lead with two guys or something if

it's bigger than that and you start getting and splitting up and going to different job sites that's when you

ought to start thinking about somebody to schedule your time and and uh eventually trying to replace yourself

from an installation standpoint you ought to have that first uh

kind of scheduler manager type person in place um

I know one crew in particular that does it really well but they didn't they did

not hire that manager until the pain was high enough that he was like I have to find somebody and it improved this

business quite a bit just having somebody running around at the job sites making sure everybody had what they

needed checking on the everybody and he was able to just you know he's

able to just install and now he doesn't even have to do that he's just the face

of the deal and managing the cruise and you know what and and some of them

some of what I've experienced what we've experienced is

nothing is guaranteed right like you're you're making changes and you're trying to do all this but nothing is guaranteed

um all you all you can do is just keep pushing forward and trying to make your decisions work and trying to make the

business successful and uh sometimes you just gotta take that leap

of faith and hope for the best and a lot of reservation that we've had

through some of the growth is we're just afraid to give someone that

that power over what we've been controlling right and sometimes that is very hard because

some decisions that people make within your company could affect more than just your company or you it can affect

everyone else that is blanketed under that and uh you you got to make sure

that you have the right people you might not always feel like you're financially ready for some of that

change but if that person helps generate the revenue to offset their wages plus

some um having that that Outlook is is huge too

but having people to talk to like Paul who's been through and who has said

you're going to yield some results you just you you just have to you have to trust the process

um yeah yeah and that that brings up my the the

second point which is um I found a lot of times the guys

that are out hiring people or uh looking for for

um crew members do not take into account the things that

I've learned in business which is hiring based on culture now you may not feel

like you have a culture as a uh installation company but you you

honestly do you just don't know what it is so evaluate that and what I mean by that

if you're the early morning hard-working guy that you know uh you and your guys

and girls get up early and you guys get going and and

you're gonna hire somebody who's notoriously shows up at job sites at 10

o'clock and expect it because now they work for you that that's going to change

and I've seen that as the other major Pitfall like if you

are the go-getter early morning kind of person and and you be you're a hard worker and this other installer is known

for like I said showing up you know at nine ten o'clock in the morning or always has a vehicle issue or leans on

excuses a lot near the no excuse kind of person you better make sure you guys mesh well you know uh I don't think

enough people think of that there that's why you see um at least I have seen

guys that work for different Crews and they'll work for this crew for a while and then next thing you know they're

over here working for some other sub and then next thing you know they're working on their own and then they they they go

back to work for another sub over here and they're just always moving around well you got to make sure that whoever

you're hiring makes a fit with how if if you don't feel like you have a culture think about

it like personality that their personality matches with yours that their work ethic you know their

temperament all those things everything meshes well before you hire them

um don't just hire somebody because they know how to install a flooring product that you want to install you know make

sure they're a good fit for your personality and and the way you want your business to run because I I can

tell you one thing that I can vouch for and I know these guys can is the Box stops with you it's not like

whoever you're working for the GC is gonna you know or if you're working for a flooring store that that they're gonna

go worry about oh I'm sorry I sent this guy over there no they hired you to do

the job the bug stops with the main guy so it doesn't matter like you said you you

um they hire you and the person you send is a representative of you and an extension

of your company whether they're an employee or a subcontractor they're still an extension well you think about

it like when you see some of these posts on like where I'm in some Community groups right for our city

and some people will be like I went to this chain restaurant and this person was

horrible I'll never go there again and it's not the owner's fault or it's not

the owner that did it to them or anything it's that one employee that made them decide I'm never going to go to this specific location again

it's the same thing when you're dealing with you know us or someone that that works for us

it's everyone has to have the same attitude going into the day in order for for you

guys to measure well yeah I think everybody's in yeah bad days too

right it just sucks that you could do a million things right it's just everybody always remembers you for the one thing

you did wrong um depending on how how much they

they like to hover over that one thing yeah at the end of the day though

um in construction the good quality people even through those mistakes always kind of land on their feet

because while you might take it in the old shorts on a particular project we've

we've experienced that the company or the GC we're working for or whatever

will come back around and realize that it was you know a pretty isolated issue

the key is though when it's not an isolated issue when it's something that continuously happens that you gotta

evaluate who you're hiring and and make sure that you're you know getting those

those people that are going to fulfill the job the same way that you have

fulfilled them it's a really kind of a sticky scenario with with installation

teams it's you know I've plenty of times hired a guy and he sends out

um you know another crew and that crew does a fantastic job and then another

time he'll send out a different crew that doesn't do such a fantastic job well it's not like I threw him to the

curb over it but you know the key is is if that continued to happen with every

Crew He gave me well then I would have to evaluate whether or not we could do business with them anymore

yeah and that's where he has to evaluate if he's going to do business with the person that keeps on messing up for him

as well right because a lot of are what we call our differentiator in

um in our area is that we do hire employees and we do pay them on a W-2 so

uh they kind of the construction companies kind of know what they're getting they're like oh we're hiring

them yeah I know this is who's going to be there on site and a not a lot of its

times but a lot of the construction companies have you know come up to me and was like you know that's the reason

why you won this bid is because we know exactly what we're gonna get yeah

yeah and you guys have done a really good job of like managing your growth to

not go you know crazy and then all of a sudden have to hire a bunch of uh sub Crews

that you don't know you have some select guys that you use but for the most part

you handle your work with W with your W-2 employees and try to hire right but

and that's a caution that's a that's a success tale for for installers out there looking to grow and you guys grew

your installation business into a full service shop I did the same thing so we have that in common and one of the

Common Grounds we've had over this time of of uh getting to know each other over

the years is the fact that we have that in common we both made mistakes but at this

juncture we've learned a lot of things and we're just trying to tell you guys out there that if you want to do the

same kind of progression uh there are some easier ways than the way I did it

I'll tell you that and one of them is hiring right and not hiring out of desperation hiring the right people that

fit you and when you feel like you have a culture I'd say fit your culture you

know one of my mentors Andy uh Priscilla with

first form out of St Louis he'll go out when he hires now that's a big company but I

thought this was interesting when he has somebody that he's interested in through an interview he'll actually go out and

look in their car and see if it's tidy and if it's or if it's a mess and he does that because not

because it would matter at another place but he that's one of his pet peeves is someone I mean he'd hate me my desk is a

messy mess if to me it wouldn't matter two two cents whether or not your car is

a mess but to him because that's his culture and how he is

he um he goes out and check and takes a takes a peek in their vehicle before

before he signs on the dotted line to hire somebody sees if they kind of match

him so that's probably a bit of an extreme case but that's still the same same thought process

not really I mean I get it right you want to see how someone handle

keeps their personal stuff uh if they keep their personal stuff nice chances are they're going to keep something that

doesn't belong to them nice as well I get it and and I used to tell the guys

all the time when I was in the field like hey we've got to keep the van clean like I don't like this mess pick up your mess and and there somebody asked me why

and I was like what happens if we go to a jobs play at one time and the person we're doing the work for or

um or a store that hires us says you know what it's easier if I just hop in your vehicle and I'll show you where to

go so let me just hop in let's ride together like are you gonna be like hold on a minute

right like so you know what are you going to do it's better to be prepared for something like

that and that's just not the vehicle thing right but and I guess overall in

life it's better to be prepared for someone to judge you off of something um that you fully have control over and

that's appearance cleanliness um

there's a good parallel I mean I do look at guys tools and judge the crap out of

them like if I see a guy that's got patch built up on his trial and you

could tell that he's never won pulling pulling out a scraper to scrape

the the patch off or he's got to bang it on the I mean that kind of stuff I'm like clean your

equipment it this is what makes you money keep your stuff clean and we preach out to our employee installers

obviously we don't have the the need uh or the the ability to control that with

Subs obviously but it is a Telltale sign of how well like a guy that keeps his

equipment uh I'll say the whole crew that keeps their equipment clean and and

and nice they are more likely to keep your job site

clean and nice than somebody who has a messy mess of everything well they care and that goes back to

what you said about the culture thing um I know that my tools are my investments

right the tools are are most the tools you buy are temporary but

I am still going to treat them really well because they're only going to work as good as you keep them

and if you're maintaining them like crap they're going to work like crap they're

not going to last as long as they should but Daniel will tell you we'll buy something

and he was like Hey we got to replace this what we gotta replace it we just bought that he's like dude we just bought that

2017. and it's like uh man I know like

I know we could have got more out of it and and and that goes back to say the tooling like I have tools at home that I

have had probably 20 years now nobody's allowed to touch those tools

right those are mine nobody touches them I don't ever borrow them out they're mine

they're mine they've been well kept nobody touched their majority of them

are not just for flooring but because I know I've taken care of them and I don't want to put that

responsibility to someone else's hands so I got a good good thing going with them 20 years man

yeah you've got a relationship with your tools at that point 100 .

well it also boils down to efficiency if you have to pull out your it's so much

easier to clean a patching trowel or something like that when you're done with it and the stuff's wet there's no

doubt about that that's not up for debate and it's also not up for debate that it your tool is going to be in

better shape in a year uh than if you then if you constantly have to beat it

to death to get the patch off or you know your buckets are always full of crap and you got to beat the crap out of

them to to mix new patch up those things are are

not like efficiency-wise you get on a job it's it is easier to clean them out

when they're wet it's just like pushing this can down the road and taking care of your equipment

um you know we've had a whole podcast on uh those types of items but they come

right back in here because that's the point though if you're gonna hire somebody that maybe the Andy purcella uh

equivalent to going and looking at their car is go look at their tools go see how they take care of their their stuff

before you hire them make sure that you're in line because how they take care of their own is exactly how they're

going to take care of yours I can tell you that yeah I typically try to return things in

better condition than what I got them um and that's just that's just me right like I don't

I don't want to be the reason that something breaks when I give it back yeah

so how's uh you know guys I mean at the end of the day I I think that the the

key takeaways here uh are you know kind of like Roland said no know where your

weaknesses are and hire for those the right people on the in the bus is uh

you know there's a book good to great as well as traction from Geno that uh both talk about putting the right

people on the you know having the right people on the right seat you can have the right person but in the wrong seat so even in your uh you know install

company you can have the wrong people in the wrong seat so knowing what you need to hire for is not

it's just not always hiring a uh another installer sometimes it can be making you

more efficient as an installer by having somebody take the phone calls or processing the work orders and doing

your billing and and making sure that you're you know you you have your materials on site and your guys are and

and your crews are all lined up and stuff so you know evaluate that and

um you know prevent the pitfall of going into either

hiring or going into business or somebody that doesn't match your personality or match your your uh

culture and um you know growing

if you can hire the guys as W-2 that's ideal anyway uh this subbing to a sub

thing is a to me a problem in our industry that we need to figure out how

to not have happen um you can team up with this uh but

another sub if you need help on a job or something but like just subbing your workout to other subs almost being like

a broker um that's just taking margin out of the actual installer's pocket to me doesn't

make sense but um those are some of the pitfalls

Dave Garden said hi like he's gonna what's up Dave so

here here I'll get off later here we'll let them introduce themselves real quick

all right Tony say hi to these guys

let me come around this way don't see it I'm sure you guys all know me hey Tony so for everybody everybody in

the audience we got Dave garden with CFI coming in you talk about a guy that's uh

built some Crews up over the years That's Tony Booker hey Tony what's up

Tony was the uh last uh president of CFI no format yep he was a Tony's uh an

inspiration to all of us he actually runs a ccs in Fort Wayne right now

best part about that is he is our tech line

his cell phone yeah [Music]

so anyway how's the show starting off for you guys I think the team meeting we thought we

did today was a team meeting I think it went okay it would uh what's that

oh yeah other than Jose and Dan getting up and leaving it just you know and the

whole the thing about it is right when they were leaving is when we were going to highlight their activities and so the

only activity we highlighted was their butts as they're walking out the door well just in time

no it's uh that's that's all it is it's just a team meeting today we went over uh I think it was a productive team

meeting yeah uh we went over some things and um I learned some things and that's

about it the meat potatoes as it happens when you get here well I'll be there tomorrow morning and

uh for everybody watching I the CFI that we always talk about on the

Huddle here these are the guys that make it happen behind the scenes always working to put together great training

uh events and sessions and and trying to figure out the right

you know whether it's um the right curriculum for a new training or or where uh particular needs

are Across the Nation These Guys these guys make it happen so when we talk about CFI these are the guys but you

know behind the scenes making it all work and and so Dave is you know just to

maybe tell you a little bit and I'll let Dave expand on this but Dave you you ran a large uh installation team and one of

the today's topics actually the topic of the day was managing installation teams

as you're growing you know maybe you're a one or two person crew and then you start hiring other Crews and you start

to get that pain of them not fulfilling the the need or maybe they don't have

the same work ethic as you and so we were talking about some of them pitfalls and you were a guy that grew a a large

install team so uh maybe you can expand on that a little bit

hey when I I used to have hair enough said enough said but uh no the

thing is you can't hire yourself all right that's the first thing you have to understand you got to be able to

put Faith in other people to do their jobs provide them with the training that is necessary and the the real big thing

is you don't want to give somebody a project that will hurt them so you have to understand and know who you have

working for you and as you scale that then you have to hire people that understand that in their own Community

if you scale that to other communities and that's and that's difficult because you become you go from managing a

handful of Crews to managing the people that are managing the crews that's that's the that's the hard that was the

hardest scale for me that was the hardest jump for me because my comfort zone is with the installer

when I found out that I was I was really great at uh rebuilding the company and

maybe not so great at managing the company you know because because managing the companies about the people

you hire to manage all right and you need that and when you get to that point where you gotta have

you got to rely on those people and you got to have trust that they're going to do their jobs and then if they you can't trust them

you've got to be willing to make that change in a hurry because it cannot cost you your crew all right yeah one thing

that I've that I'll tell people is that when what I like to do when I go to a warehouse when I was running the 14

warehouses here show up to the warehouse I go to that back alley

throw that back alley and help the guys unload their trucks and and get to know the helpers

why well think about it those helpers are going to give you more information about what's going on in that job than

you're ever going to hear when you step inside that shop right but the other thing is you're building relationships

and those relationships are important so you know and the funny thing is is now

is after we scaled that company and got it really big I would I would go in to try to do a

training and I'd have to convince people I installed carpet right

don't you know me well no they don't know me and so

you're never just an installer remember that you're never just an installer but you can't hire yourself because yourself

won't work for you what do you say to the guy what do you say to the guy that or the

crew that uh you know the lead lead person on a crew that you know has a lot

of Demand on him uh that you know because they do good work they

got more and more like pressure to do more you know I I own a flooring company

and our good guys we lean on I mean it's just natural that like I know he can do

it I know he's on this job but maybe as soon as he's done there we can get him over here and you're you're kind of and

so then they start going in and hiring some some uh crew members and that's

where it starts to fall apart if they don't do um what what's the pitfalls there

constant training because the pitfalls are a a is if you hire people and

there's only so many ladders down in a chain before somebody can't afford to make a living

all right yeah and so you got to be careful of that and how you set people up because if you've got just because

you've got your your a crew or whatever you're going to call them uh your Apex guy

uh he's he's great for you but the guy he hires

is not that he's not going to be the same as that guy even though he's getting trained by him but he's also

getting paid less and so that you have to be careful because it there's there's no reason to

run a business if you're not going to make any money there's no there's no reason so make sure that uh from my

standpoint I got to make sure that that Apex guy can afford to pay his guy correct and then I got to make sure that his guy

he's actually filtering it down to this guy and when we're crossing there's a lot of gray area here because because

we're going to tell somebody how to run their business what's that make them an employee yes

so there's a lot of gray area there that and I found him I'm gonna put a plug in

here the more certifications and trainings I did inside my warehouse uh the the more

I got to know everybody that was working for everybody and so you got to you you would hear

things that you didn't know um and then the point is to make sure you're doing things with them now Dwayne

who lives in your community has something completely special I mean he has his guys out for barbecues

right yeah you can't know that guy without loving him right so so if you

work for him you you know him he he has I could just see Dwayne having 14

warehouses and going into a different community and just just just to make sure that he had a barbecue out back

where everybody think about this it says genius though because he's getting to know everybody

in a social setting where they want to know him and that and that so if you want to

scale something and you want guys to feel comfortable where they're at you need to make sure they're comfortable with you as a leader

it without that there's it's just a job and not a career it's just a placeholder

not the place they want to be and that makes it makes a big difference

yeah we touched on that earlier a little bit that you know one of the keys to hiring is making sure if you're small

and you don't your your installation company is small and you don't feel like you have a culture you do

discover what that culture is and it may just boil down to your personality but neither regard you got to make sure

you're hiring right and that the people that you bring on Match you or match your company's

culture promotes a good example to be honest with you he's very um he's outgoing and and very uh robust

is a good way I could put it if you're a very quiet person uh and that that

bothers you or if he can't get a rise out of you here and there uh or you

don't get his uh silly jokes or something uh you know there you can hire

wrong and I know he'd tell you you know he's he's made some hires where the personality fit just was not there and

so that's one of the things that just because you can install doesn't mean it's a good hire well you have to remember the most

important thing about scaling Paul as if if he comes up or you come up

short on payroll on a Friday good luck at work out on Monday yeah all right

you pay your installers before you pay yourself that's it that's the best and

best advice I can give anybody because your installers come into your shop and

they see and they they see a check that is short because you can't afford them and then they see you pulling a boat

down the road that's it's it's it's it's it's uh uh that's a problem that's a problem yeah

problem guys so make sure that you pay them first all right that's uh

it's not the best good advice good advice to every crew out there is make

sure your guys are paid and you know pay them what they're worth too uh as another note you know if they're if

they're knocking out of the park for you make sure you're knocking out of the park for them yeah hey we got to go

finish cleaning up okay well hey we're gonna we're gonna close this sucker down so thank you guys for for joining and

and uh we'll see you tomorrow Tony thank you for talking so much

Dave went down man down man sniper he's

over there he's up there I seen him Dave wears as high as 28 shoes so he his his

toe got caught yeah

we didn't get that on video though all right man [Laughter]

he's laughing right now no that what he just said that's 100 right as a leader

you have to eat last and I always plug plug Simon sinek and that's what he always says he has a book called Leaders

Eat Last and that's true right because as a leader um he goes into like the military and how you know that's where

he got it from is in the military you you see everyone that is in a lead

position they let everyone else see and then they'll eat and I didn't realize until you know I really started

listening to it but that's how I've always been you know even as if I'm cooking as the cook I'm always like

you're cooking you're cooking you're cooking and then all right it's time to eat and everyone was always like hey why

aren't you and I just you know you guys eat and then then I'll grab something you know what's funny is he says that and I never thought about it like that I

just always ate last because I thought it was the right thing to do

I just always it's almost like that servant's heart

and and and as a leader of other people you you you you want to serve them and

uh it's interesting that it it boils down to food but it's true I think I

think what you you have to start thinking about um in business it relates to your life

right a lot of things that you do in business is your life like you said it's a personality thing yeah and your if

your personality is uh that leadership personality it translates over into work

so the more that you can realize that hey this is what I'm doing in my

personal life is gonna trickle into my work life and you know vice versa you

start putting those together and it's you don't realize that you have you've had a leadership trait for a really long

time it just took you a long time in order to put it in play and then and then you start realizing

man I never really like listening to these books it's like I never realized that that's how I was so so everybody in

my household at home listening we just figured out why I'm like that

I guess never even done to me I always just took it as a um

just the right thing to do so so when you're when you're hiring and stuff and just look at Dwayne's cookouts right you

can learn a lot from someone just by watching them at the cookout who's going to be hanging over here waiting for all

these people to eat and then they'll go get their plate you know they're they're fine with taking the the few things that

are left over as long as everyone else is you know happy and they're they're

totally satisfied with that and yeah they're handing out that I'm like boom food's ready I'm gonna eat

yeah they're handing out beers to the guys and they're yeah you know they're yeah it's it's um

I think that uh you know one one part of this that has came up here at the end is

leadership uh I think you gotta evaluate if you're a leader or not if you're

going to be leading other people so um I think a cool thing to talk about just

for the last couple of minutes here is what books have you read

um that that kind of Point towards you you mentioned Simon sinek he's always

been a a you know the asked you know his his book about uh I

forget the title but it's basically uh what's the what's your why I wonder why

yeah um and then you know the uh seven habits of an effective

leader is a book that I've read and there's a lot of books that tie into it right it doesn't have to just be

specifically about leadership it's like it'd be about building um yourself uh into that person like the

was that 5am club make your bed my Miracle morning there's there's

there's so invest in yourself as the point right to invest in yourself and I

think if you if you find an author that you like and you listen to or you read

what you're gonna find is that they have authors that they like and they plug in their books so it's like oh let me write

that down so I can listen to that and and you'll you'll see that a lot right it's this person said this in this book

and I really relate to it in what I'm trying to teach you here so I just you can actually find one author and expand

on it just by listening to that one person yeah get around other people that are

growing and and have that energy of like building their business or building

themselves you know hang out with those kinds of people I've always found that environment really impacts the way

people uh grow and how they act and so you know get around good people which

means my Shameless plug back to getting to conventions and and doing what these

guys are doing right now I'll be flying out at 5 30 in the morning to join them and and when you really boil it down

right um that's why I think I like Simon cynic a lot is because it's not even

uh finding stuff about helping yourself it's he he relates it a lot too there

you know there's a lot of books on you know help yourself your help yourself books are right there's nothing about

help other people and that's what he kind of tries to tie it into it I want to help other people and I think that

really resonates with me because I mean just look at what we're doing right now we're not on here to of course it's you

know giving me information that's going to help myself it's going to help our business but at the same time I don't

want people to to have the same struggles as me or as you did it's like we want to help you guys out as well and

I think that's why I bring up Simon sinek a lot is because man it's if if

we're always just focused on how can I help myself how can I help myself we kind of lose sight of what we're really

here for and it's how can I help someone else you'll find you'll find that helping someone else is actually in turn

helping yourself anyway right because well it's like they say you're not fulfilling help enough other

people right it always comes back around I wish baby sister I think baby sister's on a

call over there actually but that's what she's been dealing with a lot lately is she's been talking to me about Karma and

how how Karma you know one thing over here is going to come full circle at some point so it's just you you have to

do it with the with the mindset of I don't I don't want anything from what I'm

giving you but eventually that karma is going to catch up yeah and

um for those out there listen like if you don't relate to the way Simon cynics and delivery is find

somebody that you like that speaks to you right um that's what there's there's a lot of people out there that have a lot of good

motivational uh books uh uh content there you go content they have put it's

got to resonate with you um and until you find that person or or that content

there's just gonna be floating with the Wind yeah well it boils down to

trying to improve yourself so get around the right people you know obviously you guys uh have

invested in yourself and invest in other people as well and at the

like the Apex for me or what what really makes me feel better about uh maybe a

bad day is is if I am able to help somebody get through a tough time it doesn't always mean money sometimes it

is sometimes I help with that but a lot of times it's talking to a friend about a difficult situation they may be going

through um or talking to an installer uh that works for is about a difficult situation

they're going through so be there for people uh but also like you said don't have the intent of getting something

back that's where you run the whole Mojo and I know we got onto a little bit of personal development here but at the end

of the day what is a leader it's somebody who invests in other in their in their their people and and thus

invest in themselves so like you got to be willing to do that and get yourself in the right environment again like get

into a convention and being around Dave and and and Tony and and Daniel and Jose

and all these guys eyes that are there there's a big group of people at the conventions

um there are some Mainstays there that you'll get to know and they can help you in your business they can help you

through a journey that you maybe uh fighting with as an installer most of us

if you specifically at CFI you know most of us installed to go to those shows so

you know if you're trying to grow an installation business Dave grew a massive install business we're very

modest about it too like he doesn't ever

not my place to say what it was but just know that yeah pretty large he's a smart guy

yeah so listen to those guys they're right there for your uh for your your

um you know conversation when you go to uh to the conventions and stuff so I know I

push out a lot and so do these guys so in the meeting someone said something

trying to I think it was josia might have said no it wasn't Josie it was

someone on the other bed but they said um you know I'm not going to teach you

everything I know right because it'll take forever I'm not just going to start explaining everything I know but if you

have a question 100 come and ask me and we'll dive into it so that's what you

have to do in in these situations it's you come here and you're like I need to know about this this person is going to

be there let me make time to ask them this question it's not a matter of going

and say hey teach me everything you know about business it's hey I'm having an issue with this one thing what can I do

about it and that that's that's how you have to approach it and be intentional yeah and

that's how I that really touches me because there

has been some people and it's you know focused more on the resilient flooring than anything but that's what they do is

they come up to us and it's like hey I'm really having an issue on welding an outside corner what kind of tips do you

have for me and it's it's like be intentional like that yeah

all right guys well we've ran to the end of the show I cannot wait to see you

guys tomorrow and uh if if you guys are out in the audience if you like the

content if you enjoy some of these conversations we have and bringing in different people you know every every

time we go to a show or the guys go to a show we we pull in we basically uh hard

recruit some people to come on screen with us and uh These Guys these guys uh

followed the the protocol from previous and just went and got people again uh I

remember we were a CFI the the the it was last year I believe and it's just oh

it was you guys and then Pruitt who's bringing people over hey don't talk to them because

yeah he likes to recruit everybody else but all right well um Orlando area or

anywhere near it we'd love to see you the Rosen Cheagle Creek

yep yep come join us um and uh I hope to see some of you guys

there and I will see you guys tomorrow around I think my flight lands about 8 30 so I'll see you shortly thereafter

sounds good we'll see you tomorrow morning all right guys we'll see you later