The Huddle - Episode 86 - Handling Large Scale Commercial Installations

This week the guys have guest Rod Von Busch from CDi https://cdifloors.com and Jared Lockwood from Uzin https://us.uzin.com to discuss all of the different pieces that go into successfully handling large scale commercial installations.

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The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

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GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

hey what's up huddle crew welcome to the family welcome to the podcast we are here uh every Tuesday

3M Central discussing how to maintain forward progress in your flooring career this week we got some special

guests with us Rod Van bush from CDI flooring in Nashville is that correct is

that the're Louisville Louisville Louisville Louisville Kentucky Jared with uzen did I pronounce that right uh the

Germans pronounce it uten so yeah uin and uh I'm out of Michigan Indiana I

cover s Ohio and Kentucky as well awesome with me as always is Mr Daniel

and Jose Gonzalez a preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan what's up guys welcome to the podcast we are going

to um pick everybody's Minds today and talk talk about handling large scale

commercial jobs um to kind of set this up a little bit Rod is a uh commercial

floor covering contractor I own a commercial floor covering company as well Daniel and hose do a uh their fair

share of commercial floor covering up in Grand Rapids and they are growing swiftly so you got some experience on

the channel here I hope you're joining and ready to you know maybe hear some

War Stories and hopefully uh prevent some pitfalls but um to set this up we

do work all over the nation and I know Rod does as well um the one of the

biggest things that I think uh comes into mind when I'm thinking of all the

when you talk about large scale commercial projects is all the moving Parts all the material deliveries and

procure and acclamation and schedules and G General Contractors and and then

you got your subs or your uh in employee installers and all that has to work out

really well for a job to go right and there's plenty of times uh you have some

hiccups in that process I've yet to have a what I would call a perfectly successful job but uh finding those

pitfalls um and and trying to uh build processes around them

uh work with really good Crews uh a lot of those things are what we'll talk about today so Rod welcome Jared welcome

nice to have you here with us today we're gonna give people just a few M uh

seconds here to introduce themselves and um let some more people join the call

Rod would you start us off sir sure maybe give us a little bit of back background on yourself well all right so

I'm vice president of operations for CDI exploring here in Kentucky and yes we

have an office in Nashville I'm just not directly responsible for it but uh uh we're Regional company we have offices

in Indianapolis two here in Kentucky and then the Nashville operation and I think

we're a little bit unique as saring contractors go because we're also an ESOP which means we're an employee owned

company which is um you know we started down that path about five years ago and

uh it's been an interesting Journey but uh my background I started out as an

installer started out on my knees just like most of us have and and kind of grew into my

role I feel like I'm still growing into it I've been doing it for almost 40 years but I'm still still learning and

uh every every day brings new experiences and I think that's the important part is is as we're talking

about setting up commercial jobs I think the most important thing you can do is be

proactive yeah meaning that well I want to give you some kudos for always you've

always been um since I've known you a guy that is open and

thoughtful and understands um like you never quit learning it's a it's a

process that we get beat up a little bit out there uh on projects and it's about

learning and getting better uh whether it's from a project perspective or

business perspective you've always come off to me as the typee of guy that is a

kind of a lifetime learner would you kind of look at it that way yeah I will tell you that when

I first went into business for myself and was just running a commercial work room in Lincoln

Nebraska uh I like so many instellar really jumped in and decided I was going

to do it for myself before I was really prepared you know we all get answer no that never happens imagine

that so I'd work with with the gentleman there that that really uh didn't have much formal training himself and so I'd

worked for him for right at five years and got encouraged by family members and friends you need to be doing this for

yourself so I stepped out on that cliff and the first couple years were a real struggle for me and one of the ways that

I survived was I hired some very talented people along the way and I learned from them and you know to this

day you know I that's 70 some employees here at CDI across four states and I

will tell you that there's somebody always coming in with a fresh idea something that that at first you kind of

go I don't know how that will work but if you'll take the time to invest in it it's amazing there's a lot of good ideas

out there you just have to figure out how to put the pieces together and modify them to fit the circumstances but

then they generally will will move move the needle and so yeah always trying to learn from other people because there's

a lot of Professionals in this in this industry that are smarter than I am and I know it and so I I want to learn all I

can from them right have you ever learned anything from Rolland he says that you need to smile

Rolland yeah I see that well you know Rand and I have been buddies for a very long time through our connection with

CFI and and we're practically Brothers we've been doing you know been together working on projects for years and years

and have I ever learned anything from Rand yes I've learned that you cannot put enough information on your business

card if you've ever gotten a business card from Roland you'll understand that

so Jared tell us a little bit about um how you got started and uh maybe a

little bit of background on you know yourself and what what brought you to

flooring well well I was in uh flooring for 25 years now so I started as a

ceramic installer I worked my way through college installing ceramic and then I went to distributor

sales and after that I moved to hold on just a second Jared I hate to

cut you off but the feedback we're gonna do something here to try to reduce the

feedback uh bear with us folks we're trying to get the gain on Mr

Jose's uh mic down would you turn the Auto game back

off all right Jared maybe pull the mic towards you if that's possible sure are

we good now just talk a yeah that sounds better there we go so I don't need to

shout in this thing this has got a pretty good gain I like it yeah all you got to do is talk right there and you

sound you sound like the sexy podcaster right now know so you're ready to

roll yeah so I uh I started in flooring I was what 99 maybe and uh as a ceramic

installer I I installed my way through college and then I moved to distributor

sales for seven eight years and then after that I've been with uin now for eight years so in technical

sales so that's kind of the cliff version so I've installed bunch of different types of flooring and I've

seen a lot of really horrible jobs so so and the one thing that I've picked

up is you know learning is the key I find that every

time I go to training even our trainings that I learned something new every time

and I've been in the industry for you know 25 years in technical rep for eight so just the fact you can pick up little

details and you just got to understand that you don't know everything and you know you just one little detail

that you pick up and just have the humility to admit that you didn't know it before and now you know it now so

yeah we talk about that a lot on the podcast here is we've had um some Crews

that you know have been in the flooring you know been doing it for 20 25 years

not certified it's always 30 you know yeah I think that depends on what what

portion of the country you're in it's like 20 around here is that that that thing but um what was interesting is we

sent two guys and they they were good installers but they got they went through R1 R2 so they could get into the

uh you know into C1 and C2 and when they left those um

certifications they both came back and we're like man you know I I didn't know

what I didn't know and I tell that story a lot but it's true these these guys were good installers but they they had

room to improve they were humble enough that I finally got them into a certif

you know several certification classes and um they were blown away with what

they learned I I see that a lot with installers as well as you know people

like yourself who believe in learning and you you find something out new that might might just change your outlook a

little bit so yeah and we end up on a lot of large projects and stuff out

personally on those projects just because like you want to make sure those

projects go well and you don't have any hiccups and that the TRS the crews are all trained properly and you run into so

many crews that aren't trained properly you you have to learn how to basically

tell them and break it to them that what they've been doing wrong for the last 25 years you can now tell them how to do it

right in a way that doesn't make them feel you know embarrassed they belittled and any of that so there's you know

pretty much up how Jord and I met thank you for sharing

that all right well let's get into some of the stuff um we got some folks

on I mean right out of the gate let me follow up Jared's comment because on

something that I I I think needs to be needs to be said and that is we all hear

day in and day out about the shortage of installers okay we know we don't have enough to go

around but what people don't talk enough about is the undertrained installers

that have been in this industry for years that really need to elevate their game and and the opportunities for them

moving forward and how much more money they could make and how much more efficient they could be with their time

if they would invest a little bit more in their careers and I I don't hear spoken often enough about that issue

because it is absolutely true we need more more young people entering the industry but it's just important to me

that the people that are here have access to upgrading their skills hey man and and that that's a

necessary thing for the new if new guys come in I I had

a talk about this with CFI and with FCF and these these folks I said you know

yeah it's it's um it's important that we get new people in but if we don't still

focus on the making sure that the current pool of installers are trained

who who do you think these new guys end up with and then we're just duding

diluting kind of mediocre skills even more and I think that's kind of the the

uh one of the main problems of the industry is you know once the unions

kind of started faltering off in the trainings uh you know you got grandpa

that was Union you know journeyman installer and then maybe his son wasn't but he taught his son and so he he

absorbed a lot of that then he taught his nephew and before you know it it gets diluted so much and people finding

their own little shortcuts before you know it it doesn't the the way of installation doesn't even resemble the

way the grandpa used to do it and um we have to continue to push for

certifications push for trainings encourage people to go get those and

still right in line with that keep keep working towards um you know bringing in new guys because we we

obviously eventually are going to run out because people are going to age out so that's right well you talk

about yeah you talk about age and out and stuff and then the the guys that are in it right now I think like the FCF and

what they do is amazing right trying to bring in new people but that just leaves

us you know fending for ourselves so to speak to where there's no programs that are offering us

um any to any type of funds to to to help us out when like Eduardo says you

know it it is an investment it's quite an investment things aren't cheap

and we're just not paid well enough as we should be in order to get the

training that we need a lot of guys are gonna want to just focus on the the

project that they're on instead of going to get this training because they can't afford it and that's just the industry

that we're in right now well I think I think part of that is price follows skill though how many hours do we have

to talk about this because this could go on for a couple days 100% yeah it's a

pretty complicated question that you just asked but sorry Paul go ahead no I

I I I think it you know uh price will follow scale uh

eventually that turns around and you know I I speak of my uncle quite often

who was a superintendent but a carpenter and a superintendent and he did great I

mean he had a he was doing it did it for 35 40 years or

whatever and his skill set created a great lifestyle for him and my my his

family and and but as skill gets diluted that's where

pricing comes a a problem it's not just that the the prices that are out there

are too low or or and that I mean certainly we all want to see prices rise

with uh flooring installation with within the industry but at the same time

when you're bidding jobs and you're doing that stuff everybody on this call knows what that's like you have to bid

in a competitive Manner and we you don't even you you can want to pay somebody a

lot more but the fact is you're constrained by what the market allows a systematic approach to it probably the

chance to plug go career's hammer rating here is the fact that if you're awarding

work based on the skill and what we found I mean there's a lot of guys out there that have very low Hammer ratings

if any and then there's some release standouts you know uh the truth is is the more people that are on there that

are trying to increase their Hammer rating and increase their profile then you're getting that you're bringing that

skill back in and I I can't all I can tell you is the data shows that the

higher Hammer rated guys make more money they have they don't only do more volume they get paid more uh they they can they

I wouldn't say command a uh uh whatever they want but they certainly if you if

you've dealt with a a really good guy and then I'm going to I'm going to get us away from labor or we're going to go

down a rabbit hole for a while but if you deal with a really good guy that

takes care of your commercial job really well and is a great communicator you're

you don't have to go out to the job site quite as often you don't you know they're not Pradas they just take care

of your project and understand what customer service is and how to treat your your GC and how to treat the

superintendent when that happens I would I will pay that guy more

because it may come out of my profit at that point but at the end of the day I'm spinning my profit either on overhead or

on that labor and if I can if I spend a little bit of my profit on that labor because they take away from my overhead

that's kind of how I look at it and that's part of maturing into our conversation about handling large scale

commercial projects or large scale commercial let me address the value of of having a

subcontractor that really performs at the level you just described you're 100%

right I can pay a guy a little bit more money than the going rate if I know I'm not going to have to I hate the word

babysit but I'm not gonna have you're right it's babysit that's the only right word there if I don't have to go out

there and supervise his quality I don't have to go out there and make sure that he's staying on schedule that he's

communicating his needs and and looking ahead to see what he's going to need the

upcoming days all those things if if that guy can perform at that level he is certainly

worth his weight and gold and I I I'm G tell you those are the guys that as I'm

putting together work schedules they're the ones that that get the prime job they're the ones that get yeah the and

they should be rewarded they should be rewarded so you know at any given moment we probably employ 70 or 80

subcontractors around Kentucky and Ohio and Indiana okay

and it is amazing the conversations I find myself in where somebody's going

well how come they got that job and how come they and it's it's really easy to

explain why but they always want to challenge that and so you know the important

thing if you really want to grow your business put your ego on a shelf for a

while set that aside admit for a while that you don't know everything and

listen to the people that have been in it longer and understand how things work build relationships with people

that are smart that understand and it's amazing how far that'll take you but you

know to go out there in in I had an installer and I certainly won't mention his name great guy and have a lot of fun

with him we go play golf occasionally and he does good work but he's been

trying to grow his business and you know I bet everybody on this call has been in that situation where you're trying to

transition into a business owner and getting off your knees and wanting to supervise and wanting to go bid more

work and wanting to and you're now relying on guys that are less talented than yourself to go perform the day in

and day out stuff and so we had a problem on a school he was working on and and I

called him in and I said you know we've got you scheduled for two jobs coming up and they because of some movement in the

schedule you can't do both he saidwell why can't I I've got enough manpower I saidou don't have enough

supervision that was not a fun conversation to have because in his mind and this was his response why are you

treating me like that I always take care of my problems yeah well the problem is is

that you have too many problems I was gonna say that we had ear today with ccs and

it was it was it was actually baseball and recognizing

[Music] I think you got Daniel running to your

rescue because you're we're still having trouble with your mic yeah we're we're having some

problems hearing you uh there Jose we'll bring you back on here in a sec see if Daniel can can can get you lined out

this computer sorry about the technical difficulties but if you're on the call

right now one of the things I want to bring up here is that what Rod just said is the bottom line is it's not just your

ability to install a particular flooring it's your ability to communicate it's your ability to be professional your

ability to set up your projects and your labor and your guys and make sure they're trained we talk about this a lot

on the Huddle is if you are a labor provider and you're going to start supervising those people should be W2s

let's not you know one of the hardest things to deal with is 1099s going to 1099s going to 1099 going to 1099s

before you know it the guy that's actually doing the work is making squat that's the problem keep it if you own a

company as a labor provider your guys should be employes W2s of your company

and then you sub from other flooring companies or Builders or whatever you want but at some point the 1099 train

down to the bottom has to stop and that's one of the problems that that is created um or one of the uh situations

that have created so many problems um so anyway what were you can you try that

again Jose and I'll cut you off quick if you're if you're not sounding too well can you say what you were GNA say

sir I don't even know if he can hear me now all right moving

on poor Jose so um so Daniel in your

guys's business when you're doing when you guys are doing a a large scale project labor what what does it look

like to be working with a another flooring company when you when you are doing labor only I know you guys don't

do that a ton anymore but when you do what does it mean those soft skills I I mentioned

like what what does that look like for you guys I mean I think Rod said it best when he says you don't have to babysit

someone right and that's really what what we push and

um and what we provide so uh I was just I just got a call from one of the the

local high schools and they said you know they got our information from one

of the the gc's and you know he called me probably an hour after that and was

like yeah I gave him your number I told him that you guys are the only people that I trust to be able to do this

project and not have to be babysat those were his exact words and that's really what it comes down to is how can you put

all the information out for someone hand it over to them and trust them that that

they're going to get the project done the way that it needs to be done without having to call you every five minutes

hey should I do it like this hey this is happening what's going on it's that that's really the the value

that you should be getting from a sub so what does that what does that

look like in a in an actual basis what does that what is it to you Rod or

Daniel feel free like what does that mean in an in day-to-day activity is

that them communicating more often or better or like when you when I say job

setup when I what I mean by that is looking out and and calling our you know

our project manager and saying hey you know I'm GNA be done with this area they

got me in in three days I need that other area and we're talking large scale jobs I'm talking School and hospitals

that you you you're going to be on site for months um what what does it mean

exactly to you guys yeah for us it may be a little different than than some other organizations because our our

infrastructure is set up where we have project managers that that perform specific responsibilities and most of

them don't relate to the job site we have installation managers that that travel to the job site prior to

installation making sure that they go check to see if the job's really going to be ready making sure they

understand the schedule making sure that the conditions on the job site are conduced to installation which is a big

deal whether that means taking moisture testing or or going in there and arguing with the contractor about what you have

to have for temperature in the building and what the humidity settings need to be and and all that becomes very

important in supplying a quality job that you don't have to worry about blowing up down the road and don't have

to worry about involving a manufacturer over something that wasn't acclimated properly and so we go to pretty good

length before we ever put the installer on the job to make sure that we have most of those things organized for them

so what I expect of a good contractor is to kind of pick up where we've set the

stage and move through the process of installing and coordinating with the other trades and even then I don't leave

them on an island I expect my installation manager on a large project to be there at least once a week just

being there to support it here here's what most people tend to they

misunderstand as a flooring contractor I can't grow my business without good subcontractors or more hourly people one

one or the other correct and so the bottom line here is is this important to me it's vital my future that those

subcontractors can be efficient with their time and are making a good living because if they're not there's plenty of

opportunities for them to go elsewhere and so you got to kind of be a good

partner and you have to look out for their best interest and sometimes their interest may have to come above your own

but ultimately most important thing is the relationship I have with my customer

and I'll do all I can to protect that but I'm not going to throw the installer under the bus instead we're going to stay engaged so we can steer them away

from trouble well I like how Daniel always calls it trade partners because

that's how that's really what it's it it should be is they're they're Partners in getting this project done and when you

set up a project for an installer and they do a a good job it's the day-to-day

communication that they have with the GC and the day-to-day um uh schedule that

to me is so important and then not waiting to the end of um the the you

know know till you're out of something to say hey I'm out of this or I can't find any more of this or whatever the

situation may be those things do happen on projects I mean you set them up as

best as you can but you got you know time uh you know timely deliveries a lot

of times we can't just deliver a whole project most times we can't deliver a whole project to a job site and if you

did half your [ __ ] would be you know door stops and and

off yeah uh so it's like these end time deliveries you try to do well I mean

it's happened to us plenty of times when materials went out but the warehouse crew didn't grab the transitions or did

didn't grab the yeah or yeah some some part that is needed or they take the

demo machine and then don't bring the ramp so they can't even get it off the vehicle that sounds like something might

just Happ those Happ those types of things

happen and when they do happen uh when your trade partner is is looking out

ahead a little bit and not just at that day or that moment of getting the job done and looking out ahead at the end of

the day um and and can help the flooring company be more efficient by hey I need

this like that daily communication I I love talking to my Crews first thing in

the morning how's it going you got everything you need job set you got any

issues you see any problems see any hurdles no okay great call them at the end of day how to go today it's like a

five minute conversation um and we're a little bit different than you Rod we

don't have as many uh installation managers we've got two for the entire

company and we got five or six uh project managers so RPMs have to get out

to the job sites or do link calls to the job site and walk the job with the guy at the end of the day or make a phone

call I love doing link calls because I can walk through and pick up anything

that I need to have them fix uh but at the same time it's it's I I see

communication as one of those like looking out ahead understanding what the

project requirements are going to are and the schedule and then communicating that back and and having that

partnership that's what I enjoy that's when it seems like it's an enjoyable thing because I certainly have jobs that

are not so enjoyable hey I see one of my hourly installers signed on Josh

Berlin Josh is currently running a big project for us in Lexington a brand new

hospital there and I think he'll tell you himself that it's been quite the

learning experience for him you you can be a good installer

And yet when you get into the mix and sometimes the politics and let alone the

logistics and the coordination on a large project like that it really is something you have to experience to

fully understand the complications of it right and the for me the best thing is

is I said it in the first sentence be proactive be thinking ahead the entire

time what am I going to need how am I going to get and I I'll add one other

thing we may look at something as a two-e look ahead and we'll put everything down on

paper where we're going to be each day with each crew because we'll have multiple Crews sometimes on our same same project so we're scheduling out

everybody for two weeks you better have a plan B because too often your plan a falls

apart and then that crew doesn't have somewhere to go so I'm always trying to lecture my guys on you're it's like hey

I'm going down the interstate and there's a detour I know I've got to go around it but I got to eventually get

back well so how you navigate that has a lot to do with how efficient you are and

how much money actually flows into your hands can you can you keep yourself busy

when it's important to stay busy anybody can run a job when nobody's in your

way figuring out how to navigate when people are in in your way and still

manage to get the job done and still not sacrifice your production is something something that has to be learned right

so when we were on a well when I was running um one of the last hospital

projects and that's you you were saying you know what does that look like dayto day and with us um since we do call you

know each other partners and then once you realize that you do get the training in order to to be able to charge more

that's where um we have worked oursel up to right and with the the partners that we work with what was going on is

we essentially take that role of being the project manager in a sense on that job site I'm the one that has eyes on it

all the time so I'm the one that's going to the meetings I'm the one that is

talking to the GC saying that hey we're going to be ready for this area tomorrow we're going to be ready for this area

next week stuff like that so um in order to get to that point there

there's really no other way to get to that point other than like Josh is running a project like that and I mean

baby sister's going through it right now where she's running a a a project like that and that that's what it is I mean

some sometimes it's myself when I was on that project was not doing any anything

on the floor I was going to this meeting I'm going and and checking the material

I'm going to make sure that these areas are cleaned I'm going to make sure that you know everything is set up for the

crew that is working with me to be successful for the next two three four

days yeah and those yeah that's the foreset yeah and those politics are are

learned so I mean it just takes experience on those type of job sites to

know well you know what does the GC foran expect and you know what are the

other trades how do I have to negotiate with them to get access to it when I need to to to keep the job moving right

so there's a lot of just like you only learn that by doing it well this is going to sound egotistical and I don't

so take it with a grain of salt but you know a lot of times I'll go on a job site discuss a particular scheduling

issue or or a problem with a superintendent and there's been times that I've had to

stop them in the middle of a conversation and say I'm trying to help I really am trying to help I'm not here

to fight with you I'm not here to battle I'm trying to come in to help you and it doesn't hurt the fact that on any given

year I'm associated with 200 Commercial projects how many buildings do you build a

year and so in relationship to that I'm seeing a lot more scheduling issues than

he does so there are times that that even though I don't want to ever come

off arrogant I am the expert in the room he needs to listen and more often than

not if I can gain his trust where he'll listen to me we can work through most of the problems but

there is a there is a sector of superintendents out there that are kind of old school and they don't want to

listen to anybody else they want to dictate how things are done those jobs never Flow as well as the ones where

everybody collectively manages the project yeah I've uh I would agree with

the uh the statement that the old there's some old superintendents out

there that are kind of stuck in their ways and um

want to dictate to you when you're going to do something the problem is they want to dictate to you when

you're going to do something and when you're going to finish something and those types of constraints are what

cause project schedule issues and trying to get jobs done we we know what it

takes to get our job done and we know what the durations are uh on a particular job site and so I like what

you said Jared about neg negotiating that that is a negotiation like learning

how to talk to people and get what you want is the essence of negotiating and

that's what we as you know when I was installing one of the things that I was

I finally got good at I was terrible at it in the early days but I did get better at it and got got pretty good at

talking to the other trades understanding where they're going to be and not making a plan behind the

gc's you know without the GC but gaining some information so that I could talk to

the superintendent hey I talked to the electrician you're going to be out of there tomorrow can I get in there and

get my stuff done before you you know drop your ceiling tile um or you know I

would love them just to be out of our way and we never put floor in before the all the everything's done but that never

happens so you know trying to fit yourself in where you can and then

understanding cure time times especially if you're using some of your your products like the moisture mitigation

Jared or self-leveling you got cure times and stuff that you got to understand and they don't always

understand that so bringing that level of expertise I don't think that's arrogant at all I think it's absolutely necessary on most jobs yeah and

sometimes you just have to let them know what the trade-offs are like most decisions we make in the construction

industry have some sort of trade-off whether it's cure time or workability or finished prod product or having to add

another primer or whatever right we always have you know if you get a faster

cure time guess what it's going to cost more money and that's a trade-off and you know it's the same thing when you're

discussing with a foreman on a job site with the GC you're talking with him and you're like well if you push us off

another day then I don't have the same group of people coming back here now I'm

G to have two less people because they have to be on a different job and this is what your trade-off is right like it's going to take an extra one day or

two days or whatever to finish this particular area or do something and you just got to let them know what the

tradeoff is for the decision they're going to make and then you can let them make the call right um but you have to

let them know what the trade-offs are well you know it's interesting we're talking about gc's and we're leaving out

the whole construction management segment which has to be managed even different than the GC model might uh

construction managers unless their construction management at risk often are a lot more hands off and they really

do expect you to handle the logistics and the scheduling with the other trades

and they'll set up their meetings and everybody goes in there and I always get a kick out it because I say you know

okay it's it's the Friday morning Liars Club because and tell stories about what

they're going to have done that they're have no chance of getting done but it's important when I was a young

installer I used to really I mean they nicknamed me ramrod because when I got on the job site you just get out of my

way I'm there to do a job I pushed my way through I would irritate and piss

off plenty of other contractors on the job because I had the mentality that

I've got two weeks to get done I'm GNA get it done hell high water and I want to tell you what it was

counterproductive and it took me a long time to find that out because I kept running into the same contractors and

guess what they remember and and if they didn't like you after you finish the last job with them they're not going to

like you any better when you start the next one and so it's important that you

do kind of look at it more globally and you look at how can I fit into the bigger picture and how can I make it

work for everybody not just me if you show a little bit of kindness and a little bit of generosity and you're a

little bit creative when you run into one of those situations not every other contractor on

the job will duplicate your effort but the majority of them will buy into it

and they'll treat you with a level of respect that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise and and so this business is about

relationships at every level every level and so the idea is is

to go out of your way to try and build that next relationship because it pays dividends you know we get a lot of work

that we're not always low we get it because we've created a situation for

our ourselves where people want us on the job so even sometimes when it's a hard bid we're able to kind of navigate

our way through to be in position to to win that job and it's because people want us and I think that's important and

so as we're talking about cdi's business philosophy you have to understand that has to funnel all the way down through

our crews they have to share that they have to they have to demonstrate they understand that that sometimes is is a

complicated issue yeah and I like what you said there about

um you know having relationships all the way through I you know there's plenty of

times as a flooring contractor we don't have booms on jobs all the times or LOLs or or uh tella handlers whatever you

guys want to call them they got many names but man can you make a buddy with the Mason that's on site for so long

that'll let you use his maybe buy the gas or a sixpack of beer and I don't

know how many times that deal yeah it's a case now no

no more [Laughter]

inflation yeah you know that that relationship is is what those

relationships with your subs with your GC with everybody the ultimate goal and

what we try to get our our people to understand and what I implore like on

this podcast is understand that to be successful in any business you have to

have the customers needs at at in front of you like that's got to be your number

one concern is dealing with the customer needs the problem that we have in

construction and particularly by the time it gets down to flooring is those customers needs

are um sometimes unachievable and it's getting down to

crunch time I've got a a big uh a big project we're doing right now uh one of

my managers is fighting on where the owner wanted a whole another wing of

this this um condo project opened up at the same time and it wasn't on the

schedule the owner wants it the GC didn't want to say no you know all this stuff and then that just flows down to

you and now they expect that you got like 30 guys just sitting in the wing somewhere doing nothing ready to just

deploy to their job site and while we have some some mechanisms on being able

to pull some of that stuff off it can be very complicated to do so um and that's

that's just part of how why this business is a t can be a very tough business but it can also be very

rewarding when you're able to get something like that done for a for a client and they don't forget it very

quickly if you do pull it off for well I will tell you that that one

of the things that that I'm not ashamed to say I utilize it on a regular basis when I'm getting kind of pushed by a

contractor and they're not giving me the space they need but they want more manpower and I think we've all lived

that experience too now get me more people well where am I going to put them you know you need more guys you need

more guys I got I got to get this area done and and so a lot of times we'll get more creative and there are times that

I've have sacrificed and and the guys that work for me probably don't always appreciate it but I put them in a in a

second shift where they didn't have to work at the same time the others did so they could be more efficient and yeah oftentimes I have to

put the bill for that sometimes I can pass it along to the contractor but you got to get you got to get to a point

where whatever expectation is reasonable is somehow achieved and so

sometimes the definition of reasonable gets a little skewed but yeah you bet you better figure out what that

is and so I I will tell you that I'll often tell an install or tell a contractor that bringing more manpower

is not the right answer and we'll work through the whole scenario and and sometimes we'll come up with a whole

different plan but I'm never afraid to tell my health care customers that guys

if you're not ready when you're supposed to be ready the these are sheat vinyl people they're in high demand if they go

somewhere else I can't promise you they're going to be back here when you need them so you better find a way to be ready and you'd be surprised how

frequently that works I always tell people we've all lived it the elevator people can show up anytime they

want work elevator people can show up anytime they want and everybody

accommodates them because at least here in Kentucky there's only three elevator companies so you know they're pretty high and so they just work with them and

I keep saying if you can accommodate them certainly with a little planning you can accommodate the rest of us we

just need to turn around and do something that most gc's are not accustomed doing and that is to manage

the schedule from day one not once the interior traits begin their work yeah we talked about this you know before too

and it's um like they're always like you guys can

work at night and stuff like that when it's like no why don't you just make these people that are in our way work at

night and they don't like those conversations either no they never do they never do and I think that's not a

First Choice that's kind of a last resort but if you really have to find a

way to get it done you've got to get past saying no and you got to say yes I don't I don't

know how but I'll figure it out and that's that's kind of what we do sometimes it's just simply say gota

figure it out yeah we can hear you Jose holy

smokes I Ain back I've been muted this whole time and it's I know well it's

just been killing you you sound like a mouse but I have so

many notes right now yeah it is killing me okay very great either what what what

I um unfortunately for Jose who does uh always bring the bring the the heat

during the Huddle here is we're nearing the end so I want to kind of distill all

the conversation down into like best practices so

um I'll fire off and then we'll just go uh around I I would say best practices

for the for the flooring company side set your jobs up correctly uh like

understand your project if you're a project manager uh know know your schedule and then I am a firm believer a

very firm believer in having kickoff like pre-construction meetings on site

going through the job and really understanding what the schedule is what the demands are and then giving them

good ways to communicate back and forth with both video uh capabilities and text

messaging you know let them know what the best way to get a hold of you is what I'm trying to say as well as the

way you like to commu to communicate so to me it's communication and project

setup how about you rod well I think this is more

philosophical but but I will tell you that I think one of the most important things that you can do on a large job is

find a way to get the superintendent to like you okay really really important thing to do

you know I tell our installation managers all the time hey if you got the opportunity take him to

lunch figure out what his candy is figure out what it takes to get him on

your side about it the wrong way you want wrong way okay well anyhow um so

along that lines I think that communication has to be a daily

thing I think the more you're engaged in setting the schedule up and maintaining

the schedule and modifying it as needed the more successful you'll be as a flooring

contractor now that doesn't mean you're going to have a voice with every superintendent sometimes it doesn't work

some of the best advice that that I think I can give after doing this for 40 years still is not going to work every

time but I think it'll work the majority of the time and if you get incremental improvements across the board I think

you'll find your life is a hell of a lot easier so I always say be a problem solver don't be a

problem that that superintendent is probably dealing with 10 12 14 other

trades and they're all coming to him with problems when you become the problem solver you become a Val valuable part of

his team and that's and I'm not saying that to be cliche I really no I love

that saying be a problem solver and not the problem yeah how about you Daniel

let mey Jose let's get you in here yeah let me try to go because I gotta get some talking off my chest here so um

100% agree with the uh do your best to to get the the GC on your side I agree

with that right there um another couple things I'm going to touch based on a few of the items that you guys spoke about

was communication is key in order to for for you to have a plan B and for the

plan B to work out you have to be able to communicate sometimes for me it was

harder to have a wide openen job than it was to have a cluttered job because now we're ahead of schedule and my plan B is

more important to have the place um when I had three weeks plann for a project a

month now we're done in two weeks what am I going to do now uh communication for that and updating every day

um the getting the the rest of the contractors on your side like you said

Paul definitely definitely buy buy a case of beer help them out buy buy the the crew

lunch by if you're working at a facility where their employees are unloading you buy them lunch do something that's going

to be remembered stand out separate yourself that's that's really all I got

guys and and be be ready to get comfortable being

uncomfortable that's about all you can do how about you Daniel and Jared you

guys I'll let Jared go first um from a manufacturer perspective

um I would just say like utilize your manufacturer reps if uh especially difficult situations where I've seen uh

I've seen contractors say word for word what I say to either an owner's rep or a GC rep and

they'll be nodding and completely agree when I say it and when the contractor said it they thought he was trying to

rip him off with a change order so utilize your manufacturer reps whether it's the adhesive rep the Floor Covering

rep uh the prep rep like uten um use those reps to uh to help your cause like

we're we're we're industry experts as well and sometimes they'll listen to us

when they won't necessarily listen to the flooring contractor on what's necessary and what change orders are necessary if somebody like from the

manufacturer level is advocating for the change you guys have I like that advice and and it

probably can't be overstated because I want to tell you the number of times that that I've argued with a contractor

about jobsite conditions and then got the manufacturer involved to come in and say you're not going to have a warranty

you're not going to do that when not yeah makes all the difference in the world it really does yeah they they

listen to the manufacturer reps when they think that the floring contractor is just trying to rip them off and like

it's like I I get on a job site I'm like I'm not saying a word different than

what the floring contractor already told them but since it's coming out of my mouth somehow it all of a sudden has

some sort of credence behind it and they just they just look at it differently because they think our our motivations

are different or you know we're the ones sitting behind the warranty so you know if they want that backing they have to

do what we say so and I'm right there like CU this is kind of a

all-encompassing thing with me going last because with what Rod said you know

getting on their good side sometimes getting on their bad side can end you up

on that good side because that's happened multiple times where I'm like nope this is what I'm going to do and

then I just do it and then they come back and they're like wow you guys got that done really fast and I said I told you that now if you have this next thing

ready it's going to be the same thing so that that builds that trust with that contractor and then it's crazy

because that is the same contractor where I was on a job site and we were having issues and I called Jared so

being that problem solver I called the rep and I'm like Jared this is what's kind of happening what's going on what

do you recommend he recommends something I go back to the GC saying I already talked to the rep this is what we have

to do and being that problem solver so it's it's kind of you got to do all these

things all at the same time and you have to have the the mindset to where you can handle this kind of

stuff and yeah it it takes a lot it t it takes a lot and a lot of time to get to

where you're comfortable doing everything but you do need that time

yeah well I I would say that to kind of close this out here

you know all we we talked a lot about the flooring um you know from a flooring

company standpoint if you're an installer on here watching uh I I would

say understand that don't take everything personal from the gc's and these things don't you know to me it's

like you got a job to do you have the skill set to do that job and don't there

there's Gruff superintendant out there especially you young guys probably need to hear this there's Gruff

superintendant out there don't take everything so personal you have a goal keep your goal in mind like for that

project and and communicate with your your flooring company if you're working with one and try try to remember that

you have a daily you know uh objective that you want to meet and so that

communication that keeps being brought up is important for us to communicate with our gc's but it's also important

for you guys you the subcontractors out there to communicate well with your your

flooring company you know everything from Material deliveries to getting the

product installed to site conditions we're just not there every day even the best of us can't be there every day so

good communication between us when we're working together uh will help both of

our Lives go a lot easier and then uh last but not least is when we from a

flooring contractor standpoint when I'm dealing with gc's I I like you know what

you said Daniel about sometimes it's not um you know just sometimes doing

something they don't like is getting them on your side I always look at it like what is the best for the project

and sometimes I have to force that what is best for the project not just me but

actually for the project and for the end user that is correct I agree with that

well real Qui just do what you say you're GNA do yeah that's a good policy oh my God

if you just do what you say you're GNA do it it's like magic because all of a

sudden they don't worry about you no more you're the one guy out there they don't have to worry about so just deliver what you

promise prom deliver yeah we can cut out this whole podcast and just do what

Roger said just do do what you say you're gonna do that's it that's the whole podcast right there

well the podcast has come to an end guys uh thanks everybody for joining us today

hey give help us out here give us a like a subscribe comment you know get the

word out the the bottom line is we don't uh you know have a lot of uh algorithmic

knowhow we need you guys to share the show talk about the show and get the viewership up that's what's going to

show the platforms that you like what we talk about uh as Daniel has at the bottom if you have a topic that you want

us to cover send it to Ashlin goar.com and we'll get you on the podcast maybe

at the very least we could talk about a subject that is important to you so uh

we' like to get on here and wrap kind of like the you know just a fireside chat kind of uh thing and we hope you guys

enjoy that um that platform so thank you for joining us we'll see you guys next week 3M Central we'll see them this week

because we're going to be at the summit starting well we we'll be there tomorrow but then I think it starts yeah we are

going to be shooting an overtime at from The Summit in Dalton Georgia uh you know

take that QR code if you can make it down there I know it's it's kind of last minute but if we've implored you guys to

get down to these conferences because what Rod was speaking about earlier about you know networking and getting

and the this business being about relationships you will you will meet people there that have been through what

you're what you've been what you are going to go through I should say and can help you navigate some of those pitfalls

trust me if you get to the summit or you get to cfi's Convention that we go to

Every Time CFI and fci's Joint convention those are where you meet the people that can help you get you know

get better at your craft and get better at how you approach your business and grow your company in a sustainable way

and maybe maybe avoid some of the pitfalls we were talking about here early on when we all got started yeah

Thanks Elena for passing stickers out Only Solution yeah all right thank you guys I appreciate it all right thanks

for joining us Rod Jared thanks for joining us and we will talk to you guys uh this week and next week adios see you

see thanks [Music]

everyone