The Huddle - Episode 91 - The Future of the Retailer

The guys examine the crucial transition flooring retailers must make towards online sales, as consumer habits increasingly favor the convenience of digital shopping over traditional store visits. This shift, particularly among younger buyers who seek streamlined purchasing processes, challenges retailers to integrate e-commerce into their business models effectively. We also address the growing trend of independent installers gaining market share, often due to retailers' reluctance to collaborate, forcing them to source materials through alternative channels or set up their own accounts. Join us as we explore how the flooring retail landscape is evolving in response to these digital and market pressures.

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The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up team welcome to the Huddle your weekly Playbook where we strategize

on not only playing the game but changing it from mastering the fundamentals of the craft to

distinguishing ourselves in the marketplace we're here to give the installer a voice and ensure you're

equipped with everything you need so let's band together and Forge a new Legacy in floring this is where you

belong welcome with me everyone Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez

from preferred Flooring Grand Rapids Michigan what's going

on oh you know it's pouring over here now it was snowing snowstorm last week

rainstorm this week yeah we keep going up and down here but enough with the weather and hey your

name is Ashlin look at that that's cute oh yeah oh that that doesn't stand for as

that stands for what he smells

like all right just join and don't pay attention we're gonna give a a uh Little

Couple moments here for some guests to

join yeah I was actually vog you uh confirm we're shared on all socials I'm

about to right now so a great idea

so I I think this is an interesting topic today though right we're talking about retailers and we're technically

not retailers so hopefully some of them jump on and start arguing with us I'm hoping

one of them do uh maybe just setting us straight uh we just have some thoughts and Concepts and some uh I think we've

you know heard certain things from you know that we'll get into but discussed

where um you know that landscape may be changing and making sure that we

provide uh open platform for communication to see what what kind of things we can do as professionals to uh

get better and and uh you know kind of guide those turbulent

Waters uh you never know what's going to happen but few Concepts have been tossed out there couple emails I've gotten that

uh with this question I actually tried to get a hold of one of my buddies about

this and uh him and I have just not been able to um connect uh a retailer

everyone knows but um I was just going to try to get a little content from him

for today's podcast but maybe he'll join he's uh joined a time or two so we'll

see so what's um as we're letting I have a question I have a question and and

this is I mean it's for me it's going to sound like a dumb question maybe but what constitutes uh someone as a

retailer uh so I think the first thing is a showroom

yeah uh you gota you gotta have a showroom to whether that's a mobile showroom or a uh you know but some type

of a showroom would be my um probably you know number one thing I mean

flooring flooring dealers uh I mean you can sell flooring and sell it out of off

books and and different things but showroom showing product all that kind of thing I think is kind of the you know

having full displays and a and a good a good sized

um you know selection yeah you know having people come in and actually

taking a look at everything feeling it putting hands on it yeah yeah that that

that would be what I would say is the key retailer to start this off right how

there you go guys this uh topic is going to be a little bit of fun because like

Daniel just said none of the three of us are are uh retailers but we thought we

would bring some Concepts to the to the podcast hopefully we'll get some

interaction from a retailer out there uh or two that may um give us some insights

on what they're thinking but um I uh I can only go off as some of the some of

the information given and uh should be fun Jorge just joined us what's up

jge um okay well let's kick it off so now that we

have uh um tag team back again I know what

you're going at buddy um we're old we are old dude uh but we're still cool so

that being said the uh definition of a retailer right

someone who has a a showroom I think you were setting me up there uh Jose because

we've got some Concepts or some some people who have said that um you know that that a lot of

this may end up moving online and that you know sourcing

local uh you know installation uh you know right now it's

kind of like uh trying to find a needle and Haystack to to know whether or not

you're getting a good guy unless you're using the go career Network right so uh

but that being said uh what what do you I I just wanted to discuss that like

what what are your guys's thoughts is is it possible for your average home buyer

I mean I see it as possible but not probable but some of the people are

building I know a guy building I won't mention because it's kind of confidential but he's building a whole

thing like a a a um a

submersive internet showroom to selfing from and so that is happening I

don't know if it's going to catch Steam and actually you know like the whole that whole concept catch Steam and and

that be the new way um but the idea is that he would give suggestions to uh for

installation but not have any part of it Direct ship the product to the house uh

use some other technology for the homeowner to measure the house themselves add a certain percentage for

Waste factors and those kinds of things and then ship ship the material direct to the home do you think that type of a

business model it can catch steam I I mean it it it probably is

already catching steam um with some of the the people out there in know that are practicing some of that in a lighter

manner right with uh the technology and the way it's come so far and all the new Ai and all the renderings that they can

do because I mean even some of the major manufacturers have on their website view this product in your room um and the

basic takeoff is getting a lot easier I think uh uh what's the technology lar is that the technology that's yeah that's

being used right now iPads yeah yeah so what do you do there let's stop right

there and explain lar I I'm not real familiar you guys showed me a little a little piece but right so it's just this

this little spot right here and it just shoots lasers out that the camera's pick

up so you can actually measure everything and have it's I mean when you

were over here we messed with it and it's pretty accurate I mean it's kind of scary accurate that's what they you have

your like like do that and then scan the room and then you have the and then the

it seems practicing already dude but but this is the

technolog is there to do it right I mean lar you download an app

and and I think it's iOS only right now correct yeah the iPhone and

iPad y so so I think that that's where it's shifting to you know once once uh

what was it probably two years ago we sat in a conference and they were talking about Ai and the rise of the

metaverse and you know and and incorporating that like you're not I

think you even said it once too if you're if you're not embracing technology you're GNA get left behind right and and that's where it's gonna be

running to is when when covid came in and hit people scrambled and tried to

find another way to still shop and you know and and that everything went up all the purchasing Amazon everybody was

still business was good online yeah and and uh well and then they're going to

have to sour they're going to have to on once they do that they're going to have to Source their labor so one of the

greatest Technologies on the planet is a labor platform we all know uh and grown

very fond of of go Carrera so let's watch a quick video of

[Music]

that [Music]

well if that was not the best transition ever I don't know what

was no but I mean that's that's uh if you're out there and you're in the uh FL

installation world you owe it to yourself to get that free profile set yourself apart get third party verified

and uh you know there there's a lot of weight that comes to uh selling yourself

to a homeowner or contractor or otherwise when you're third party verified so get that free profile that

being said free profile come on now guys fre yeah is and zero dollars to you f

re that's right so Daniel um or Jose you were just saying you know

there and even Eduardo just popped up Alibaba floring XD I don't know if that's a real thing or if

he's just talking crap it will be next week it will be next week that's the thing though right that's um in terms of

what's going on it's looking at the younger people the younger people don't like going out they don't

like you know socializing per se like doing stuff like

that and look at just Amazon Alibaba right like these types of things exist

because people flock to them and it it's only going to get worse so how are we going to we talk about you know the the

Gen Z and stuff in the workforce but they're also going to be the buyers here pretty soon so how are we going to cater

to them yeah and they they seem to be much

they they seem to trust what they see online line a heck of a lot more than they trust

people the the textile people the textile people like myself are are are pretty much dying out if you look at

Daniel and I we are two different types of Shoppers that dude would buy something online don't like it he'll return it I will go to four different

stores try it on smell it feel it touch it and like ah I'm just gonna buy here

because I don't want to trust it might fit different online it might feel different if I buy it online well that's

the thing that's where the the online rate ings come from right because once you start getting everything online

people can start rating I thought it was going to feel way but it doesn't some of them have even uh brought new technology

out to to fight that you know measuring your feet and stuff if you want

shoes like they send you the stuff to to measure your feet correctly all that

it's kind of fascinating so let's get back to the flooring side of things you got this

nidar thing or is it light light uh and you download the app and and the

homeowner takes a measurement and then goes to this website that gives a real submersive kind of maybe uploads that

that document whatever the result of that liar measurement is and then um you

know gets to see the flooring in their space and gets sold kind of uh right

there you know what I'm saying and then ships to their their house what's the

what's keeping that from happening other than you know the retailers really

continuing to up their game and some of them are freaking fantastic at at connecting with the homeowner when they

come in I don't think retail is going away that's my opinion I think that

people there's enough people that want the human interaction but if 30% or 20%

of people do this that's still a significant piece of the market buying online uh you know what what's uh what

do you see are the pitfalls of or the what what's going to stop it is anything or is it gonna happen the competitive

pricing from big box stores I mean is is hard to compete with you got to look at the investment right like if it is going

to go that route the investment to get set up and and make sure that you are

evolving with that process and then be able to compete with a big box store is going to be very difficult uh you know

and and then all of a sudden now the big back stores give the the one-on-one personal experience along with the

favorable pricing um because of their purchasing the retailers have always bought the big box stores though and

they they've done pretty well with expertise I think the one thing that should be considered that the big box

stores I would say the number one uh

complaint is that they don't you know you got someone who's not a flooring expert selling your flooring um whereas

these online stores could have a real expert because they only have to get it right once right they record all this

stuff like how to pick your flooring correctly do you want a nylon do you want a you know a polyester do you want

you know a cut pile or a loop or whatever and they go through this whole like I could just see them going through

a series of questions to match you to the the category that best fits what

you're looking for I'm looking for carpet I want something that's you know you know

uh a nylon or a wool you know and you kind of Step almost like a wizard like

you're setting up a piece of software yeah and then at the end of it you end

up on you know 40 products that you can look at and toss it in your room from

that lar scan and and get a feel for what you're thinking of and

then now how do they ship carpet I don't know going to be a problem right you need a warehouse I'm sure they have to

figure all that stuff out but these concepts are not ours uh we we've talked about them in some previous uh

discussions from things that have been brought to us so I'm just curious we we

thought it'd be interesting to get everybody's opinion on this so let's read some comments uh maybe the

wholesalers might come in uh strong if the pros sign up with them and do their

their own business instead of going to retail and taking chips and bits

well yeah I think anytime you're you're the the installer or the professionals

are teaming up back with the retailers that's going to be something that would

um probably be a win for the retailer you know what I mean because you at

least you got someone in between you and the installation um but frankly their

software coming out I mean we just watch video they can select their installers

off go Carrera in the future which is not available now then what right um and

uh you know we're not to the public we're B2B but my point is there's software happening and there's

technology happening so what's what's going to um what's going to keep people

going into the retail store I think is that human interaction and that professionalism I know some retail to do

it really really well and when they when they that's why they knock it out of the park but this concept is foreign to me

to buy a whole a whole bunch of but I know people who bought tile off a stone trash for example and then found an

installer and got it installed so man that's a that's a whole lot of

work a whole lot of gambling but I guess if you know if you know the right people and then someone who can who's a professional who can help lead you in

the right direction with material that you might be looking at that's a little bit different um it

really I don't think it really matches up with being able to go inside and and and hang around a brick and morar for

you know four or five hours get some free coffee and meat some people but um

I don't know I don't know many people that I talked to or deal with

that that are still doing that I do know that some of the uh uh some of the

partners that that we still work with uh do have a very large showroom um and a

lot of the majority of their sales come from Walkins and and appointments and

and and having that person-to person experience

and trying to cut that out of the equation isn't going to be easy but um I

think that if you have people that are educated out there that like like hardhead is saying if you have people

who are educated and who are willing to help clients educate themselves I think

that there would be a a market to kind of Branch off of uh the traditional

showroom per se what about you uh Daniel is there you

know we the the title is the future of the of the retailer I want you know maybe it should say the future of re the

future retailer uh you know could be a whole new business structure sure new people

coming in new people finding ways to meet clients where they're at and a lot

of people like to buy online a lot of people do like to buy online and

um like not only is are they the younger people are going to come in and start

buying but those younger people are also going to get in and start selling too right

and it's just going to make sense that everything moves online um just like

you know we we did the the go careera one we're going to do a a stubby tools one right here we sell these things

online and it won't let me create a QR code I was trying to do that um I had one in there but it it wouldn't let me

but we're going to play a quick video here and uh show you guys about this these stubby

[Music]

tools [Music]

[Applause] [Music]

oh damn that's a cool tool it is it's something that we

brought in from Australia because you know I just ordered a couple to try them

out loved them was like more people need to get these into their hands and you can get them uh at our website pfmi team

that's a the short version of it way easier than trying to spell the third flooring Mii

so I I I think those those younger people you know the buyers and the

sellers are all going to flock to online because that's just what they have they've been born

with like they they were born with technology in their hands and they just like that ease of use get some reviews

on things and then that's only going to make the the manufacturers and retailers

tighten up and say yeah this product maybe maybe isn't as good as we thought

it was and we should probably try selling something else right because though those real time reviews are are

key I mean everyone goes to Amazon and some of these products have you know 2,000 3,000 reviews you know I've never

looked does Amazon actually have like flooring on it um so we've actually we've done some

bids where the flooring was actually specked on Amazon like you had to that's

the only person that sold it was Amazon

yeah there's comment here that that says uh we need the we need an interior

designer take because they're keen on the styles that consumers are most

likely to come around to which um which I think keeping up with fashion styles

sorry it's a little small here will be easier to make a user experience that

aligns with what's in yeah but what you know that could be online too right you get someone to uh to there's a lot

online here to help you um kind of check

you know help you select the right materials and help you get the uh the

the newest styles that are in um plus what if the wizard kind of does some of

that for you like a AI designer uh which is happening in the commercial World

anyway that is happening uh there's there's like trendy uh you can have a

trendy AI bot select materials for you it's not flooring yet but I've seen it

in painting and some other materials lighting and so if you wanted a whole

package picked from uh you know a trendy or a modern or you pick your design and

it goes through that wizard so these things are happening I'm I'm fascinated on how it's all coming together I uh

I I don't I don't have a strong opinion because I'm not in that business but I

do I do think that um some people are going to buy that way surely like who

thought Facebook that anybody would would really like Facebook would really do what it did or or social media in

general now look at you know yeah it's a Jugger not of you mean mypace bro you

mean my space now you're really

I mean AI is going to be huge it's only going to continue to get bigger um just like in canva you we use canva

right and it's like in there all you got to do is click a button in it's different color palette and it's going to be kind of the same thing oh this is

the color palette I want let's design my entire house with this so that way

everything flows and you you're never going to have to leave the your phone or your computer well I another another

thought I wonder if retailers don't turn into labor shops that are uh received

the materials and schedule the labor and make sure that it's done wonderfully I

wonder if that's not the the the future retailer is you know having your own

website that does that and then um and then having the materials come over to

your Warehouse so the homeowner does not have to to uh you know receive those

materials and then you you still have a place where the where the uh installer

can pick up materials and come to your house and get her done right and maybe it's more focused on the service of

getting the product installed in the future and less about the product itself

right and I think the the other thing that is going on with the the retailers and stuff is that they're not willing to

partner with the installers right they think well I want all these funds from

selling the material because I mean rightfully so they're the ones that you know buy the the samples and stuff like

that and all the racks and and displays and stuff but at the same time like when

we were doing it we were just asking for a a small margin right like let us make a little bit and they couldn't even do

that and we've that's numerous companies that we we tried to do it with and then

once we started selling we're like man we kind of uh looked horrible to some of these people that we were selling to

because we thought we had that you know at least a few per to mark up but no

they were selling it to us basically for retail and then having us go and it's like no like some of

these some of these things have to be addressed right it's either you start partnering with some installers and

selling them material so that way everyone can make money or they're going to start branching out and start doing

their own thing and we we're we're seeing it a lot more lately and you know some of our sales reps come in here and

I talk to them about it and they're like I get calls every single day from installers that are ready to sell their

own material and unfortunately you know they a lot of times they have to turn

them down but it's like sometimes they they're going to do what we did where they're going to get a warehouse they're going to get an office space and they're

going to they're going to start selling and then not only are you out that installer because you're it they tend to get mad at them

for trying to do their own thing so they're not not only are they out an installer but they're out the sales that

could have been going through them anyways yeah I I I I don't know but I'll

tell you that focusing on that uh that installation experience is always a good

thing so if that got more attention uh we'll see what you know you

you you can imagine I should say that you'd have some happier homeowners from

the end result piece uh I think we've all heard it say you know the flooring really doesn't have any value until it's

installed properly by a Craftsman so um I

wonder you know Eduardo says it's it's about relationships and that's why

people stick to Barbers for the rest of their life you know uh yeah there's a point to that but look what sports clips

did and many of the people who go to Sports Clips somewhere around 90% pick

first available when you're scheduling your appointment on the app and so because of

that yeah it's but the convenience sometimes trumps that

relationship that's why yeah and and now that I'm thinking about it I think the online thing is going to

actually be beneficial in terms of like the people that are only searching for the lowest price like I only want it if

it's going to be the lowest priced item well and and the best the best product too right like there's being

specific and when I might check ratings online but I also do my due diligence

and I go to reviews last

week it was last week talking about talking about sports clips now look at that

um like I I I go and uh I do Google reviews and then YouTube right and I go

try to review product and try to get some real life a a personto person perspective instead of just reading um

the literature that that comes online or like I don't even go to Yelp I'll be honest you guys I don't even ever look

at Yelp so I don't like Yelp because they called us all the time tried to get us to pay

them for stuff and so they they burnt that bridge with me I don't even use their webs site to for

reviews well here's the um so we talked about

like how it could work I mean it seems like technolog is there and everything and and we as we continue to get uh uh

Jose's mic dialed in we are my goodness dude we are

U we know the Technologies there I guess what what would be the best thing I did

was move it down I did retailers kind of uh uh focus on

what matters to the client the most and if they can buy the materials online they can't they they may be able to

Source labor online but they can't have that interaction with you I I still

think there's a spot that the retailers can play to just up the service uh and

you know charge accordingly for the higher service like making sure that uh

you got the right installer on your project and that the the material that

the furniture is handled with care all the stuff that like almost like a white glove service for each in installation

as opposed to um you know the way that many retailers do it today and certainly

big box stores I mean I know how they do it no offense big box stores uh oh no

they got a good system the fact is is that you you know they they ship their materials to the to the installer's web

uh Warehouse installer go takes that out on a work order goes installs and and uh

you get what you get and the last interaction they really have with a big box store is after the

sale you know I I think they follow up afterward to make sure that the install went okay but you get what I'm saying

like that white glove service might come in into play later where retailers

really have to or companies in general really have to uh

almost hold the hand of that client and make sure that they're highly taken care of so anyway I I'm I'm the least uh the

least expert in this in this realm but I thought it would be a fun conversation maybe to have well it it is because you

know like I said salespeople come in here and talk to us about it and it just as as an industry right we have to stop

being so segregated and actually talk to these people and

kind of get a feeling of where they're at and that just starts with a conversation and that's all we're doing is starting the conversation what what

we see is may not be what they see and I I would really like them to you know

listen to this on whatever platform they're going to consume it on and let us know come to us and and and correct

us if we're wrong well or or educate us educate us please um yeah

I don't think any of us are saying that that's the way to go we're just saying like the technolog is there what are you going to do about it uh that's kind of

the conversation you know yeah I mean look here I'm just gonna give you this little quick uh storyline I guess if if

if I had a retail store and I had uh those amenities available for me I would probably have um like a a three

four-step process right the process will start online and they can down to some selections there and then basically like

the prerequisite for them coming in and getting the textile so once they get everything narrowed down they can get

their budget from from the online source resource and then and then narrow it down and come on in right get

pre-approval whatever they want to do then come into the store and then get their their hands on it you know by then

we should have it narrowed down to a couple selections and colors um and if they need any help beyond that then

that's what the the Brick and Mortar is going to be for and and those resources but I'm not a retail store I don't want

to pretend to be but that that that would be the easiest way for for me based off of the way technology is going

because AI we're way dumber than AI that's for sure and all the AI needs is

a starting point if you find a good starting point and give it a good foundation It's Gonna Leave You in the

dust pretty quick well at least a large language models we we can't come up with as quick

as AI that's for sure and the design is is is out there uh I know mid Journey

can do some crazy design work stuff if you just prompt it correctly and so yeah

that the AI stuff is you know it was a buzzword for a while but it's here man

and it's it's a lot of it's happening um I'm curious how it plays into all of

this I think you know time will tell but you know at least having the conversation and having some retailers

hopefully consume a little bit of this and just even if it gets your mind click for a second and installers too like how

are you going to fit into this whole thing how are you going to you know maximize your your earning potential

over the next you know 10 to 15 20 years if you're a young guy or if you're you

know if you're if you're not and you're like I'm GNA be out of this before this all happens anyway but still how are you

going to maximize yourself and maximize your earning potential uh through this transition

possible transition I I would be confident in saying that I think some of

that's going to happen I don't know how much or or what percentage but some of

it's going to happen and if it's uh like I said earlier if it's 20% that's a significant amount when you're talking

about a $ 35 billion

industry reading has comment right here NE got to bust out a

yeah hey hopefully some they will when you get that Jorge you let me

know we'll get Hammer we'll get them Hammer rated and on the [Laughter]

network that's what it is shoot out a list for you so clo closing up because this is a

shorter podcast just from the very nature of the fact that we we um didn't

have a retailer that could get on today to help kind of spur their their opinion

of the conversation and you got you know two companies and three guys that are

more in the commercial World a little bit in the residential but not certainly not retail uh we we are doing our best

in and kicking this conversation along

um at the end of the day what what are your thoughts your your real feeling do

you think in five years that it will be a thing for a homeowner to be

able to have a good experience now they can do it now I know they can buy materials online or flooring online and

get on Angie list or something uh and find an installer and and hope for the

best but do you think in five years that they could do that measure it themselves

and have a good experience you think that's doable I think it's 100% doable based on

not only um the AI that we're seeing right now but even two years ago at

surfaces some of the manufacturers that Apple watch that we gave away was from one of the

manufacturers you know because I went to one of their meetings and it's like well

I'm not really going to use this but we can definitely give it away but that their their premise for the meeting was

what the kind of what we're talking about here the future of the retailer and having the homeowners measure

their own stuff and then we come in afterwards so we already have a basis on their their space and then kind of

what they want and then that's where the AI comes in where it can just fill their space with whatever products they're

talking about or they're they're looking at what about

you Jose add on to what Daniel said because he's exactly right um and you know I do believe that there's a

gentleman out there who who started this whole uh technology thing and doing the virtual shopping if you will for the

flooring um by putting tablets in the store I don't I don't want to say

anyone's name I don't want to get myself in trouble but um so so it's already been going on for for a couple years

right it's just a matter of how fast is it progressing and and and is it catching uh catching on with everyone um

but like Daniel said if the consumer the client the end user is has that at their

fingertips and they can sit there at a their kids concert and Order carpet or

do a measurement on a room with the information they entered while they're hanging out with their family they're going to do that and then if there's an

option to get verification um by an installer then that's probably going to be available as well for for premium

probably I mean I would definitely put a premium on it but I don't think there's

any stopping it I think uh all we can do is roll with

the punchers and and hopefully we can uh stay afloat and grow with uh with

technology yeah I think it's uh just what you said it's it's keeping up with

it knowing that it's coming knowing that it's here and then making some plans around it it's kind of scary I mean at

the end of the day I'm an old I'm an older dude uh and uh I've I had I I

remember the first phone so the first cell phone so the first phone like

1787 whatever uh no the first cell phone came out and

uh I was amazed by that and now we can buy stuff on it and like measure rooms

with our cell phones it just it blows me away but all right with that guys I'm

going to call uh call The Huddle you know out we're g to we're going to cut

the podcast we're about three minutes shy but thank you everybody for joining us uh if you like any the content

specifically on this one like comment on in our sections on our um you know on

our socials on YouTube wherever you consume this and let us know what you think we're not saying we're experts on

this obviously we're just bringing up some theories that have been brought to us and we wanted to like get some

feedback and and and hear from you guys so get in there give us a some ideas of

what you really think the the retail you know business May look like in five or

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one way or another it helps the channel uh hopefully the uh we kept the

sponsorships or the Partnerships in a cut down time frame that's how we plan

on them to be to not interrupt the podcast too much um if you can comment let us know how we did there I would

certainly appreciate that as well uh we have other partners that will be

uh bringing to you in the future and we' just like to know if we're if we're doing that in a favorable manner to our

audience because you guys matter to us so comment like And subscribe until next

week peace out see you guys thank you everyone

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