The Huddle - Episode 17 - Changes that Impacted the Industry
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose look back on changes they have witnessed, and how they changed the industry over the years.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody welcome to this
week's huddle
we're coming at you every Tuesday
um to discuss maintaining forward
progress in your flooring career
really I say this every week it's really
most of this is applicable to any
business but um fluorine's what we're in
and what we care about deeply so
we're here to help uh hopefully we get
some participation this week a little
bit of uh comments uh or questions but
kind of round out some of the topics
we've had previously we are we're going
to be talking about things that have
really changed the industry this this
this huddle
um
so join me as always Mr Daniel and Jose
appreciate you guys thanks for thanks
for always being here
so this week
it may not uh exactly
you know mean what what the the title
may not uh resonate exactly but let me
break it down I figure there's some
you know pretty big changes that
happened in the industry uh bring up
some of those there's been huge product
changes
um and as well as some reputation or
overall just being a floor contractor or
a floor installer change so what I mean
by that is so from an industry
standpoint and I'll look up at my board
here and there because I took some notes
uh
sub
Contracting uh so subcontract installers
they've been around for
for decades and decades and decades
however they really took hold and
started gaining you know
um more attention meaning flooring
contractors or flooring companies
started using subcontract labor really
heavy in the 90s
and all the way through the 2000s to
today I've quoted this before but
depending on which
um
uh study read up to 87 percent of all
flooring
Nationwide is installed by independent
subcontract installers
so that was a that's a huge change
because you went from employee
installers uh you know paid by the hour
or uh sometimes still by the piece but
the point was they were employees
um under the control of a company so
what that means is the company would
make sure that they had the highest
training employees right I mean you
wanted the best installers you sent them
to training uh
and then you had an apprenticeship or a
training program within your company and
those uh Apprentice programs and
training programs you know you were able
to bring in new blood get the new blood
with the old blood having a four-year
Apprentice program for them and then
produce another installer on the back
side of that once you the subcontract
um
storm came
now the subs are responsible to get
themselves trained to make sure they're
up to date on product knowledge and all
that stuff so that's a big Dynamic
change I'm not you know voting uh one
way or the other I think there's a good
uh case to be made for subcontractors
and a good case to be made for employees
uh I don't think it's either or I think
it's both but it was certainly when when
more work started getting done by uh
third-party installers subcontractors
versus employees I think that's a pretty
major major change that also impacted
the way we train our installers versus
employee trained installers and
subcontractors
um I obviously that had a big impact
talk a little bit about Labor shortage
um you know aging out of the installer
that's more today's pro
um problem I I mean it's been a problem
for a lot of years but the the pimples
just turned white we're really feeling
it now
yeah it's like it's just turned white
though
now that now's when the problem's here
so I guess
we can discuss this a bit but is it too
little too late I know a lot of people
are doing a lot of stuff in our industry
trying to solve this problem but
um you know no offense to anybody
working on this problem but it feels
like we're behind the curve like this
type of effort by the manufacturers and
and the industry maybe should have and
when I say this type of effort the money
and the focus on solving this problem
probably should have been you know 15
years ago
um as opposed to you know the last five
years just my opinion uh then I had some
product stuff you know large format Tile
For example you know
I I remember in 95 when I first started
the biggest tile you'd see is an 18 by
18 tile like
there were probably bigger ones but in
general 12 by 12 and 18 by 18 being the
biggest now we have Gage porcelain
panels that are four foot by ten foot so
that changed for everything from the
tooling to the training to
site conditions the whole deal
um
water soluble adhesives and you know
when the EPA took our solvents out
um we've been around long enough you've
had some failures from that I certainly
did
um you know that the
the chemical industry to me just over
the last three or four years has really
started making
great adhesives again
um it took a long time to get the
solvents out and formulate something
that's water soluble that
can
still perform on concrete that has water
in it so
um
and then the new arrival of lvt
you know 15 years ago or so mtico was
about maybe 20 years ago but yeah Antigo
were the own that was it yeah that's
pretty much Antico and now everybody and
their brother makes an lvt uh so and and
such a large percentage of the flooring
installed today from a square foot
standpoint is lvt
um it's it's replaced a lot of tile
where typically tile would go uh or
hardwood
um so yeah
and then floating floors in the
commercial Arena
um you know Wilson aren't uh
used to make a uh laminate floor with a
plastic core for the commercial world uh
back in the late 90s early 2000s uh time
frame and they quit doing that and had a
lot of problems with it and now you know
it's pretty common place to have a click
floor and a commercial building if it's
the right condition so anyway uh last
thing last kind of topic within this uh
overarching topic was uh our reputation
an image as a as a flooring installer
versus I've heard Mark with the uh with
the ntca talk about these Glory Days
back in the 30s or 40s or 50s or
whatever uh time frame when
we were highly respected when we walked
on job sites I seen some old photos he
shared of guys like dressed
to like for construction it they were
dressed to the tens you know they had
the tie I mean they had like a work suit
on it was it was uh pretty interesting
but back we should bring it back let's
bring it back bring back this the work
suit why not
but point being back then uh it was a
respected trade uh I feel like you know
some of that got lost I know that all of
us here and probably anybody even tuning
in to this this uh huddle
um
you know would love to see the not only
participate in making that change back
at least in some uh some degree get back
to that respect and the understanding
that we're skilled Tradesmen and it
takes a lot of effort
um a lot of uh knowledge a lot of
training a lot of skill to effectively
do this this business so that's kind of
the overarching
um thought process I had here what are
your guys thoughts on like you know
industry subcontract anything else that
you guys uh can think of that really
brought major change to the industry and
what are your thoughts on it well I I
wrote down a couple things right here
too it's like uh one of them was before
my time right when when everything kind
of hit or
around that time but
um I wrote down a couple categories I
got Health tools materials and image
kind of what we kind of talked about a
little bit there but the one that hit us
personally since we started was like uh
when silica when this those standards
came out and everything switched over we
kind of got a little bit of a taste of
what
the generations before us might have had
with asbestos you know we kind of got
hit with a take care of it or else we
will kind of thing that's a good point
yeah that silica thing came on like a
freaking hurricane
yeah we were uh we're not in a good spot
at that time I guess but
we actually made a lot of changes before
everybody else did and they everyone
around the area kind of followed suit I
mean it's not we don't intentionally we
didn't intentionally do that but we
started making every contractor aware
that we were 100 silica compliant
um Daniel went above and beyond to make
sure we have the documents the paperwork
like everything that our government was
requiring of us at that time and and now
it's just standard practice so yeah
yeah that silica thing was tough
I we were behind the curve for sure I
didn't know how serious it was if I'm
honest when it came out and you hear all
the talking and I thought yeah it's just
all these major pool manufacturers
trying to sell more tools some different
things same thing same thing we were
like ah whatever we breed dust every day
right one of those people and then you
actually learn about it it's like yeah
it's
you got to change your mindset it's not
like I've already done this and I'm fine
it's I need to protect everyone that
that's working here and on the job site
so we have to do it yeah yeah once you
read into it you realize
um
there is some damage that stuff can do
and protecting you and your employees
and other and other you know job site
workers or what have you is
the responsible thing to do but I would
be lying if at the beginning I didn't
call
I'm not scared I'm well yeah we do a lot
of Hospital work too so it's like always
you know talking to infection control
and you don't realize the numbers of how
many people actually get sick or die
just because there's dust that you're
kicking up just the particulate that's
in the air yeah it was
so it was a little bit easier for us to
justify it right but even did you talk
to uh did you guys actually talk to
medical professionals at the hospital in
that regard or was it just at one of the
hospitals we worked for we infection
control is there every single job she
comes by every single day so we talked
to her quite a bit
yeah she's been happy with us she's been
upset with us we've been on both sides
of that coin but it's hard to be perfect
all the time so
um accidents happen and sometimes uh
you don't think about construction for
two weeks in an area and how much dust
is going to
to get out there even if you are using
the systems it's it's not 100 foolproof
but well I like the way you can kind of
compare it to asbestos maybe not to the
same degree but it's the both of those
were major industry you know I'm glad
you brought that up because I mean
asbestos is a wonderful Building
Material
unfortunately it causes cancer right and
uh documented as such I think it's the
mesothelioma that it uh type of cancer
that it actually causes right
um yeah pretty big industry change we
used a lot of asbestos particularly in
the BCT and
um and it was just VA tile back then but
um
uh the adhesive too you know and a lot
of people don't realize that the tile is
the least you're concerned
from uh adhesive articulate it is the
the bigger piece there's more of it in
there and it's easier to become friable
or to get up in the air
but uh yeah interesting what about
products what's your what's your top you
know few like either headaches you've
experienced I I gotta think adhesive is
on that list but you know what other
product changes has just caused
you know either great
uh change meaning change in a good
manner or just has been a tough one to
deal with here's here's what my thoughts
right cargo tile
it is great but horrible at the same
time because they think that anyone can
just go and install it but
um they don't realize that you have to
treat it like a resilient because
there's that backing on there the
moisture has nowhere to go like broad
blue so
so if you don't treat it like that
you're already setting yourself up for
failure
you know I would add recycled content to
the conversation as well because the
Recycled content and the backings of the
carpet tiles
caused more
personal pain for me
um
because what would happen and has
happened is
you know we have a rule basically that
you remove the we lay on concrete so
basically what that means you go in Tara
brother and carpet or terrible carpet
tile and you're putting down new we
don't just go over what's there we get
back down to concrete we install on
concrete that's our desire now sometimes
budgets different things you gotta you
know get creative do some skim coating
maybe some removal whatever uh to meet
with the client's budget but in general
we want to install on concrete
we have had uh in the past project
managers who
regardless of that being our kind of
company Mantra if they pulled up on a
particular project this happened they
pulled up perfect time
and it had pressure sensitive over old
broadland now this carpet tile performed
just fine so he thought hey it's fine
we'll just put our carpet tile right
back on glue's still sticking no problem
2600 yards completely failed completely
it curled like crazy everywhere so
that's when that's when I
and that was the Recycled backing the
Recycled portion of that backing
like carpet tiles not carpet tiles not
carpetile that each manufacturer has
their own rules and this particular
manufacturer which I'll leave I will not
mention but
they're the Recycled content in their
backing requires like you got to get the
glue off you gotta Pro you got to Prime
the residue
and then you can install their carpet
tile it's very susceptible to take on
and soak up the any chemicals that got
left in that old adhesive and that's
exactly what it did you could pull up a
piece and look at the backing and you'd
see dark spots
and it was a light lighter colored
backing so it wasn't PVC so there's no
uh pla plasticizer migration or anything
like that it was just
it it soaked up something out of that
old adhesive and it turned the backing
dark not black but just dark in spots
all over it and it curled like crazy
and
you know obviously that's a tough lesson
to learn but that that is uh recycled
content in flooring products you know
you gotta deal with those a little bit
different and you really understand what
you're dealing with means reading the
installation instructions for each
product
they make it easy now too because if
you're uh have a lot of
back back in the day there was none of
that it was read the bucket and they
would just and even if the technology
changed the distributor was still
getting rid of all their old adhesives
with the new materials so I mean at SMC
were set up to fail but
if you weren't paying attention to the
specs then well like you said that you
still give an old adhesive right and
that's what something that a lot of
people don't take into consideration too
is
the formulation of adhesive changes over
time and then a lot of people just are
like oh there's pressure sensitive
already down just go right over it and
then that's they got systems out there
now for stuff like that too because so
many failures
well the old adhesive just like you just
said but just to drive the point home
just because it's pressure sensitive
doesn't mean that it works for another
product that requires pressure sensitive
that adhesive if you're replacing it
that for example on this job the carpet
tile was 10 years old
who knows what that adhesive was who
knows how it was formulated
you can't just say yeah it's still
sticky let's put new product over it so
yeah that was another big change and the
water soluble adhesives part you know I
the The Perfect Storm uh when when all
that started happening is they also came
out with unitary backed carpet oh my
favorite my favorite to rip off remember
that how terrible was that right unitary
back glue down you had to use
a special Notch trial that put so much
glue down that putting seams together on
Broad Loom was a nightmare to keep the
the glue from squirting between the
seams
they quit making it because that came
along right about the same time as when
they started taking the solvents out of
the glue so the glue was less sticky and
they were producing a product that
required more adhesion so you have less
adhesion in the adhesives being produced
and a product that requires more
adhesion and I can't I've torn up so
much of what we did and
yeah I hate to say it but it just
bubbled like it would look good you'd
roll it you'd put the right amount of
adhesive down and in a few years it
starts bubbling well
they they have to hot water extract it
that's one of the main recommended
methods of taking care of your carpet
what happens when you have a crappy
water-soluble adhesive today's
water-soluble adhesives are far superior
than when I'm talking I'm talking like
96.
ish time frame
um
you got a crappy water-soluble adhesive
and you're doing hot water extraction
uh that's not a good mix so all that was
uh that that really did change the
carpet side of the industry a lot
and then lvt
LBT the same thing with that one like we
said Antico right we're installing a
bunch of AMT t-con what do you do you
hate the West Side adhesive so what do
they do they come out with pressure
sensitive then you start using it
everywhere and then stuff starts
shrinking and then you realize years
later man
that was that adhesive sure looked good
right about now yeah kind of locks it in
locked it in a little bit better plus
you know Antico made a great product and
they still do like it's still one of my
favorite lvts uh but because lvt blew up
so much
there's lvt you can buy for 50 cents
you know and
it's a it's a six mil or or less wear
layer but you want to talk about
shrinkage and curling or cupping all
those problems
you know that comes because
you start bringing in when
when a market gets hot more and more
manufacturers start making the product
and it gets made cheaper cheaper and
cheaper and it became a product that was
a race to the bottom whereas Antico kind
of had the markets cornered and really
uh made a high quality product and
frankly
I don't see that they ever changed their
their kind of stapled Mainstay product
uh we've done it a lot and it it I've
never had it shrink I've never had
problems with it but there are other
manufacturers out there engineering
Antico around here so when you talk
about how good the adhesive was back
then a few years ago my grandmother
wasn't a home before she passed and it
just happened to be home we did the
floors in a long time ago we went there
and
it stood
the test of time it was still looking
good you know it was custom borders and
all that and it looked it looked really
good for the age and I was very
impressed to not see gaps everywhere you
know yeah a lot of the a lot of those
products are
um and the floating products too you
know that's another waterproof
waterproof flooring you know uh edu the
marketing behind all this waterproof
flooring is
better than what the product itself is
yeah if you drop a cup of water on top
of the floor it's waterproof you get
moisture underneath that floor you'll
find out real quick it's not waterproof
at all like it's only waterproof from
one side
and you got to be cognizant of that we
try to educate our clients on that all
the time and they get frustrated because
all the marketing material
it says that it's waterproof that it's
you know the best thing since sliced
bread and that it won't ever fail
because of moisture or something but you
read the fine print
and you you like we have to to install
it you realize quickly that it's not
it's not the end-all be-all for for for
that scenario I've I've had plenty of
people say well in bathroom just
silicone The Edge yeah well you better
be perfect you better be perfect to not
have one little pinhole anywhere because
the water will find that pinhole and it
will find its way underneath your
flooring and you will still have the
same problem I had to find this way
underneath anyway we just I just had
this conversation on the phone couple
days ago with the client
and it might not have been about the
waterproof aspect but like the warranty
oh this is a 10-year lifetime warranty
you know and they started going on and
on I'm like
you kind of got to read the print a
little bit like you know I'm not a
Salesman I'm talking to you as an
installer this is a limited you know it
you're just reading what you want and it
says limited lifetime yeah read the
actual warranty yeah you said you
definitely got to read into it a little
bit more than that if you want the
literature I'll send it to you but you
know you have to
understand that
they can't give everybody a lifetime
warranty otherwise they wouldn't be in
business right now
yeah so what else uh we we mentioned
image and stuff as well
um you know I mentioned that you know
back in the day we're really
um revered on construction projects and
a lot of times now that's not the case
and like I said I know that all of us
are trying to change that
um but where do you think that went
wrong because it sure seems to correlate
to the time frame when we went really
heavy Subs that's and no offense to Subs
like I was a sub I believe like that's
what go career is built for so like
there's no at least those subcontracts
so yeah no negative there I'm just
stating that that was in that time now
now you have a subcontractor crew you
don't send them to go get trained you
don't put them all through training
that's their responsibility
and a lot of them just decided they they
didn't need to uh now you're several
Generations into it and the guy the
first generation of Subs are probably
fine and so was second because they
learned from these guys that at one
point were trained properly but it seems
like it's slowly gotten
um
it slowly got worse and worse I I go
careers whole purpose is to to turn to
turn that corner but then the
manufacturers they're just trying to
engineer out Talent they're trying to
make flooring products so easy that
anybody can do it and they they have not
succeeded uh they've got a few products
I think that are easy enough to install
like your clicked together flooring
but to do it right and to last that 10
years you still made a pro that's my
opinion I think um
one of the changes that happened was I
think that the market eventually at one
point got flooded with uh the workforce
right like um
Construction in general got flooded and
then like you said it was the training
and education kind of got diluted down
as Generations passed so people stopped
uh
focusing on educating themselves and
becoming more of a Craftsman than just
an installer and I think that's what
what happens is it got watered down it
opens the doors up to let's say more
demographic more different walks of life
in the industry and
um as other trades were on the rise with
the image and the respect because they
were they set themselves apart from
everybody everyone else employing
industry kind of fell behind and just I
don't need a certification to do that
floor I don't need uh to pass an
inspection for this floor you know and
instead of
instead of the industry leaders as in
like manufacturers the top down setting
that standard they just kind of
just let it go it's because our stuff
only gets inspected if there's something
wrong with it
yeah that's a good point you think about
the other trades they're like all right
I got everything set before we put any
drywall up inspect it we don't have the
same thing you know in our industry so
it's it's a lot easier to cut Corners
because you can still make something
look really good initially you know you
look at it oh it's so beautiful and then
you know two months later it's like well
all this has to come up well do you guys
watch any of the DIY uh stuff on TV Like
Home Makeover kind of thing
yeah that's a little bit like there's
different
there's different ones but my there's
another there's a new one out right it's
like the I forget what they call it but
it's basically
going back and redoing what like
flopped flip like bad flips or something
I know really what it boils down to is
DIYs did this flip it looked good while
they did it but now just a short term
later
everything's falling off or having
problems the flooring's failing all
these issues with the plumbing and all
the stuff that they did because the
industry says it's a DIY Thing
it didn't last it didn't last very long
at all and so there's a whole new show
about going in and redoing uh a uh uh a
flip that a DIY guy did uh you know did
on their own
so it's interesting that's my point is
that we are still needing to be trained
to be certified to be informed and
educated on our products to install them
correctly for long term uh performance
of that floor
and that goes with
a lot of the the new tools the
technology the information that's out
there like
there's a lot of things out there to
help people get better if they're a DIY
but there's still a lot of things out
there for us as an industry to to make
ourselves better so we're not losing two
diyers
they do like you said they keep on
engineering stuff to be more user or
installer friendly to to cater to them
and that's why I think uh you know we
have the market where we have it with
you know the the sheet vinyl the
resilient side of it because
there ain't no you ain't DIY in a
flashlight
they have somebody come and install the
vinyl then they're like we don't have
anyone in the wallet well who installed
your vinyl oh yeah but they don't weld
that's amazing to me I mean we have some
guys in-house that we've taught how to
lay the Sheep I know get in it and
that's you know floor prep proper
coverage rolling all of those types of
things even pattern matching and such
but you know welding's at one next step
uh so we'll have another you know you
may have one installer that does but
when you start looking at it from a
subcontractor's perspective one crew
installing another crew coming in
welding that's that's a mess it is yeah
we just I was just on a project last
week where you know we get a call from
someone and they're like hey we just
need someone to come while inside
corners on the flash cove
and I get there and he's like you know
we we hired this other company and they
welded everything and then we were gonna
caulk the inside corners but the owner
was like no and he wouldn't he wouldn't
take the cop so
I went back to the installer and he was
like oh I don't know how to do that so
I'm just gonna leave
that was it that was it
wow okay one thing that changed my my
world and my life from a installer's
perspective was
no one told me about a ride on machine
for Demo Man so the tools from an
installation perspective
no one told me about that when we bought
our first one it was just like it was
amazing
yeah
that that's a whole you got a whole new
life when you jump on a ride on McCain
if you're used to using the idiot stick
to remove VCT or something
the little red shaker box is what we
used a lot before that thing's sucks so
bad I'm surprised you can hear me right
now
yeah
those things that was like running up
the Jackhammer all day yeah
so loud and it didn't do very well
either
nowadays there's you know there's a lot
of great demo equipment wolf has some
really awesome stuff yes they do shout
out to my boy Danny my brother
my twin uh yeah I mean there there's a
lot of great equipment out there now
that um
makes our lives easier that's a big
industry difference I mean
I cannot tell you how much VCT I've
taken up over my life by hand and it's
just not fun no I remember and if you
get on a write-on machine not only are
they very effective they're kind of fun
but I think we kind of got off on a
tangent I think we were we originally
started talking about the whole image
and everything and then where it got off
track and the subcontractors and
um there's just far too many people out
there that don't care about the image
and don't care about the certifications
and stuff like we've been talking about
and it just drags everyone down because
once they start doing that they're also
the guys that are working for a beer at
the end of the day instead of for to
make a career so they drive the pricing
down which in turn makes it harder to be
able to run a business that has
employees where you can offer the
benefits that everyone else is offering
and then focus on the training and have
the dollars and cents needed to invest
into yourself into your guys into your
company well and here's a natural place
for me to plug go Carrera uh I mean the
bottom line is like
you know you just said it uh Daniel the
when you are a company with employee
installers and you're trying to compete
with some guy in a truck that's not
trained not a doesn't value the industry
the way you do
and you're trying to compete against
them
the only the what go career does just
level the playing field so that like
skilled people are competing with like
skilled people so that you're not you
know a three Hammer guy is not competing
with a one hammer guy or a half Hammer
guy for the same work and that's that's
what go career brings to the industry
and hopefully over time here installers
will recognize that higher Hammer rating
equals more jobs and higher pay that is
that is what the data shows us over the
last three years and multiple millions
of dollars ran across the platform is
higher Hammer rating higher pay
and part of that is because obviously
the higher Hammer rated work is more
difficult
takes more Talent takes more skill but
that's that's what is intended I've said
it a a bunch but you don't need a three
Hammer guide to put a carpet tile
vestibule uh you know a vestibule of
walk-off carpet tile land you need
somebody who knows what they're doing
and use the right adhesives and still
have is is educated but not necessarily
the guy that's fully certified and just
kicking kick and tail right
um so getting the right people on the
right project is is kind of the key
there
um so anyway that that's that's our
that's our vision for trying to make
sure that you know like-minded like
skilled people are competing with like
skilled people and not not this guy
that's committed his life to the
industry
thousands upon thousands of dollars and
you know uh tons of hours invested in
his education and his certifications his
or her uh Education certification you
know trainings uh with a guy that
worked for somebody for six or eight
months and this that this is the plague
to me of the industry is the guy that
worked for somebody for six or eight
months and then goes out thinks he's an
installer and starts you know starts his
own subcontracting company and you can't
tell from Adam you don't know if he came
and sat across from you he watched his
boss do it he knows the name of the
tools you question him he seems
confident or she seems confident and you
uh if you give that person a chance
um you better have wonderful oversight
I've made that mistake I bring up a
particular project all the time where a
birthing unit we were doing that the guy
sold me I thought he knew what he was
doing and it was very evident as soon as
our install manager got on the job and
said
yo this needs torn out before anybody
else sees it
you know and we did we tore it out
immediately but I'm not gonna lie we've
been there this is uh Mr promise he used
to be Mr promise the world I like to say
oh yeah oh yeah we could do that and
it's like what is going on and he's like
I I believe we can do it and figure it
out
well part of that we we still ahead of
time educate ourselves as much as we can
before we start doing that and then you
know when you have means you can't if
you have the intent of going and getting
the knowledge you need once you land it
I remember my first protect all job I
wasn't certified and I had no idea but
as soon as
I'm sorry Factory trained uh I we we
hadn't been to the training but I knew
for a fact if I won the project I would
send guys to go get trained and and we
did that so that's not bad but I'll tell
you what is bad is if you say you can do
something you don't go get the training
then you go try to do it and you
let me change that word mess it up to
the point
where it's not recognizable as the
flooring it was supposed to be
and let me go back to this promise to
the world thing
um
I was just always confident in our
ability to be able to to manage that
test and get it done
um and I was always political in my
delivery hey you know what that's not uh
what we specialize in but I I feel is
very similar to this right here
so I'm pretty sure that we can get it
done for you no I never said do it right
number seven be perfect you know I was
very political about it but we I would
force us into
hey if you look at it I forced us to
start reading and paying more attention
to everything to start learning about
everything about it it was well look
that's what we're both here I I
there's not I'm no different when I was
when I was subcontracting literally if
it was a floor that could be installed I
remember my first wool carpet job I had
no right doing that job
had no right uh luckily I had some
mentors around at the time that were
willing to help me out and and make sure
that project went well and I learned a
lot and you know continued to learn but
um yeah we all uh get in those scenarios
because you don't want to turn work down
but just have the intent of going and
getting the training I'm trying to save
you from what I did I don't want you to
go through what I've been through and
that's the whole purpose of this huddle
is like maybe you'll hear something like
you know Jose saying saying that and if
you've done that that's that's fine if
you have the intent of going and getting
the training necessary or at least the
education necessary to install that
product properly but uh without the
intent of doing that you can get
yourself in some pretty deep Waters and
I have with us we're first generation
too so a lot of people you know when
when we go to the conventions and stuff
they're always asking who'd you learn
from who'd you learn from it's like
by messing up yeah basically or going
back I had the
let's call the luxury of coming
Scholars and fixing unsatisfactory work
let's just call it that so I had to
reverse engineer and then put it back
together and that's when I
started finding out the do's and the
don'ts and
it's amazing what you can learn when
you're fixing other people's stuff yep
now we just got to fix the industry man
we just got to try to figure it out well
you know just keep taking stabs at it
every week here and and you know I know
you guys and uh okay
and well we as well as you guys don't
know how to say that properly there but
uh the point being is getting involved
um we did all the last week that's why
about being involved and where you can
get stay up to date on the industry well
that's kind of that this is showing you
why right here is all the changes
everything that happened in the industry
really required for you to be part of it
to stay in touch and and and know the
new products know the new tools I mean
in heat welding the different Groovers
and and
different heat welding tips and all of
that stuff that I mean you you could you
could be an expert in that alone I do
when I do classes I estimate I I carry
probably around twenty five thousand
dollars worth of tools to these classes
his lunch box
I mean it's it's definitely an
investment right but these tools are
12 years old now and they're still going
strong you know you got to take care of
your investment your Investments take
care of you yeah take care of your tools
guys there's another
Pro tip clean your patch trial off and
your bucket out before the pet your
patch dries
Torres on Facebook right now he said
every time he sees new wolf products
gets them all excited
[Laughter]
Danny I'd love to hear that well new
tools are I mean that's a guy's
playground you know a flooring
installers playground I should say I'm
like you get a new tool in some one of
our hands and we want to mess around
with it I got a brand new uh Power
groover this week
so uh that you know I was like let's see
what this thing can do it's
like a part of an airplane it doesn't
look like our old one our old one the
the
um blade would not engage anymore
uh yeah the
I think the motor
where it attaches to the blade I think
those bearings went out on it basically
we didn't have time to try to fix it so
we bought a new one but you know you get
a new tool in and we started grooving
stuff that uh just because right just
because
GTI Max for the fun of it even one of
the cordless ones no I didn't get a
cordless one
we got a leister so
they got a cordless one too
I I uh if I did all the personal tool
purchasing that might be uh you know I
might have investigated that a bit more
but our our uh install manager does most
of that so
but at the same time if you have we had
about a thousand foot to weld I I do you
obviously have a a battery powered one
or do you guys
um we have one it is it does not belong
to us gotcha does it last a long period
of time we have not even got a chance to
use it yet I can't wait to hear
it was a a hey we want you guys to use
this tool
and it's been sitting on the shelves
because we haven't had a job to use it
on yet oh
more or less I want to say when they got
sent to us is more or less a prototype
check this out with what improvements I
mean it's on the market now but see how
cool that is just being who you guys are
you get opportunities to mess around
with stuff probably no one else has even
messed with yet
fun that's it's exciting what about the
stubby let me give a plug for the stubby
tell me about that
um
um so first of all it's
it's a great roller right I actually
only started selling them because I
purchased them from the manufacturer and
started using them once I use them on a
job I said more people need to use this
yeah so Game Changer guys yeah like I'm
not selling it to make a bunch of money
I'm selling it because people should
have it in their toolbox
and uh you know I got him from his name
is actually Daniel too in Australia
and you know we communicated and he I
purchased him he sent them over
I fell in love and it's actually
pretty much one of the only rollers that
we use now from the toolbox it's it's
the number one go-to roller it's it's so
versatile it's hard not to use it where
can people buy it
you can go to our website preferred
flooringmi.com if that's too long
he said that if that's too long so I
bought the domain pfmi dot team because
that's what we are as a team so I
figured that oh nice that was a good fit
sweet
my pinkies don't work man typing that
long email address to people my pinkies
I get accused of it all the time Stewart
and associates.com
and then I got to tell people how to
spell Stuart because they tried
w-a-r-t and like you guys right right
way
if people are watching this and stuff
right now I actually put on uh right
when we're done here I'll put on a
coupon code
uh we'll do go Carreras since that's a
a big part of what we got going on here
so I'll do a go Carrera coupon code for
uh 10 off awesome
awesome take advantage of that guys
hey I got another uh what about
um
the difference in concrete that I think
that's another big changer I only want
to spend a couple of minutes here that
we have left to talk about it but that's
that's great right especially since we
do resilient and
probably a lot of the hard tile guys
will say it too right when it everything
all the additives that they put in there
makes everything non-porous right away
it just locks that moisture in it's not
going up it's not going down it's just
in that slab and you have to treat it as
a non-porous
so much
more work has to go into it
um we did a job
uh Bronson Hospital and this one just
got finished up last year where there
was a bunch of Nora going down and you
know once we you know those are the
questions you ask up front there are any
additives going in here yeah this
additive is going in here I was told
never to use the name because they'll
sue me
all right I think I know which one one
you're talking about
so there are we were like all right
there has to be a bladder layer and in
order for this you know to hold any
warranties or anything
and they there's so much pushback on
what we thought this was going to save
money and
yes yes and no right like
well there's so much I
I've got some friends in that industry
so I don't want to talk poorly but it
there's a lot of snake salesman or snake
oil salesmen in that deal where they're
like this is your cure-all well there's
always resulting damage from something I
mean be honest when you sell this gonna
create a non-porous lab you may have to
profile your slab to achieve a
mechanical bond with your adhesives out
you know or whatever but it just sold as
this oh it stops moisture and
I think that's even debatable to be
honest but at the end of the day it
definitely causes well all the
manufacturers say no additives no no no
carrying compounds all that has to be
removed and then you put it
intrinsically in the concrete mix
you got problems and then uh I've talked
to uh concrete
because
I've been on the project when they're
pouring concrete you can talk to these
guys they'll and watch them add more
more water to their mix as they're going
on a hot day well then they're adding
you know instead of four and a half to
one or four to one you know it gets up
there at that seven and now you have all
this water of convenience in the slab
and this magical product supposed to
solve the problem
um
I don't know the jury's out on it uh I
know that Lou as well as a lot of other
really highly qualified guys in the
industry state will tell you stay away
tell your tell your concrete uh tell
your GC to stay away from the additives
but they're not going to we we've we've
had the
um situation come up several times and
we just make them sign off because they
don't want to go through the additional
um the additional uh cost that it would
create to make it ready for the flooring
so
do you know do the additives only affect
the flooring is that the only thing that
in fact
manufacturer and everything
else probably why they were
keep it going anyway I don't I don't
think it affects the structure or
anything I think it actually makes it
stronger holding the moisture in because
concrete needs moisture in order to to
stay together it does it needs you know
it needs proper hydration but it really
only needs two to one to properly
hydrate Portland
the problem is you'd only place you know
300 square foot a day
in that condition to pour a 10 or 20 or
30 000 foot slab in a day you have to
have water of convenience which is just
water for the pure purpose of being able
to place the concrete in a quicker
manner but as it dries up you get
scaling if it if they over trial it
there's tons of different problems that
come along with it but
as well as you know a slab that does
this and
uh that was the other issue on this job
was the engineering of everything they
they poured all the concrete and it was
a belly
every 12 feet
yep
so
was that a fun job was that a
post-tension slab or something like that
do you know I I don't know all the
specifics all I know is that I had to
fix it
well welcome to flooring
[Laughter]
what we're here for
well we're running out of time here I
want to thank you again great
conversation I hope some people got some
benefit out of it uh
do we have any uh chats or anything I
apologize but we're we're out of time
this week we got going on some some
Rants and some good stuff but bottom
line is the industry's obviously changed
it will continue to change your job is a
high quality flooring installer stay up
with the times stay involved and be
educated and informed
absolutely
go to go career that did you guys get
that those links up yet to where they
can find some training
yep it's on all the socials sweet and I
believe they're building the page uh now
uh just about done with the page that
will be live on the website so
yeah
okay yep sounds like they got it up is
that on the website yeah
yep sweet then now they got somewhere to
go in order to point them to everywhere
yep go to go career.com go to the
trainings or
um events page and uh check it out and
if you have any
trainings that you want to um
uh you you don't see on there that you
think are valuable please email us at
support gocarera.com and let us know
what the training we'll get it put up
next week there may be a gentleman on
here he's involved with uh fcica and
then doing inspections and stuff
um he was watching the last few and then
I think he's on an inspection today he
wanted to join but I think he might want
to actually come on to talk about what
he's got going on so that'd be great I I
shared with him the link and uh we'll
keep in touch to see how that pans out
for next week awesome yeah I would be
interested to chat with him on his
opinion of should flooring installers
get at at least some level of inspection
training to know what the inspectors
look for I've always thought that might
be you know that would be really quality
information for a guy to know what if
there's a failure what do they look for
right you know what I mean so and then
on the flip side
if you are an inspector and you got
questions definitely call and installer
because we've seen it all yeah yeah in
all of us I have inspectors calling me
just asking me questions like I've never
seen this what are you think and then
seen that plenty of times and this is
what it's from
nice
well he's invited it's awesome and uh we
will see you guys next week and talk to
you guys here in a bit signing out all
right have a good week thank you see you
next week all right adios
all right
The Huddle - Episode 16 - Growing with the Industry
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose talk about some resources available to you to ensure that you are able to stay up-to-date with the changes constantly happening in the industry.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
okay well welcome everybody
to uh the weekly huddle where we coming
to every tuesday
to discuss maintaining forward progress
in your business and flooring career
uh today i got daniel with me
as
as always
from pf is with me
today
we're putting together a resource kind
of guide
uh
today's podcast is about
um
or the huddle here is about
you know staying in tune with the
industry staying up to date and i'm not
just talking about new products although
many of the resources we
are going to share with you
will help keep you up to date on new
tools and new products
but
also
uh keeping you up to date on industry
developments
what's up jose
uh
industry developments
it keeps you in touch with um
you know when the conventions we always
talk about whether it's convention or a
show
whether you're in tile carpet
resilient or hardwood
so we're gonna put together a resource
guide a few of them all mention on here
and we'll share that on all of our
social later today
and we'll also
uh send out emails so if you're on our
email list
uh you'll get an email
uh with some links
and
basically this is
different publications in the industry
from floor covering weekly or
um
one of the the you know pro installer or
one of those
um also
uh i've got to give a big shout out to
the ntca if you're a go carrera member
uh you get
their education package and within that
education package
i believe it's 249 a year
uh normally it's 600
so
as a go carrera member you get it for
249
but the
that comes with one of the best
resources for tile which is the tile
letter
and that really keeps you up to date
you'll get that monthly in the mail
and that really keeps you up to date on
all things style from new developments
stories
um
it's like a reader's digest for tile
basically so
um
that's a good one
obviously we've talked about cfi before
becoming a member there is very valuable
to you but also
uh you'll be on their newsletter and
kind of stay up to date with their
trainings
you'll still be able to stay up to date
with new
uh new trainings
um
not just new
or trainings in your area but when they
come out with the new training
um
they they uh they put that in their
newsletter
um there's also
various um
the nwfa is with
uh for wood flooring um nafct
does a great job for
um training and resilient and things
like that
so we'll we'll basically share a
resource guide
uh that will allow you just to go
um
and click on that resource and and go
check out the material
the big thing here is a lot of people
that are in our industry and we've ran
surveys
uh specifically on flooring installers
surveys that
just show that many of them don't have
an idea of where to go to find trainings
or find
you know stay up to date with the
industry standards new installation
methods and techniques
so we're going to share that uh
this
this uh huddle is less conversational
than previous because
i'm going to ask you guys what resources
you have ashlynn will log that down and
if we don't already have that at go
carrera as the resource we'll add that
but um what do you guys get on uh
do you are you on newsletters how do you
stay in touch with where the industries
go and you guys have such a good thumb
on the pulse of that
uh how do you actually
keep that thumb on the industry's pulse
it's
that's exactly it it's uh our inboxes
are filled up with newsletters in the
emails um you know
cfi
uh
yeah
for covering news um
magazine
from the the distributors
even stica
sends information yeah fcica is a good
one too they they they even have like uh
monthly webinars that you can join and
there's the
guys that one's a good one i'm glad you
brought that up jose because
we're both members of fcica
and uh in our flooring companies i'm
also
go career as a member
uh as
the software company um
but
you want to talk about staying up to
date and getting opportunities to jump
on webinars and learn new product i know
rdex does it a lot um
i think i've seen
yeah i've seen almost every major
manufacturer do a webinar new product
launches
it's a fast and efficient way i many
times we look at our inbox and we're
like shoot
it's hard to say for what spam and what
isn't right so you kind of have to thumb
through it a little bit um
but even if it does come through and it
gets flagged there still is some
information in there there's a lot of
links that you could click on and just
kind of move forward through you just
have to
yeah i'd recommend if you don't know
where it's coming from don't click on it
yeah
but for sure there's a lot of
information
well
mentioning the fc ica and that's they
really focus in on
you know the soft goods side of the
industry so the you know resilient and
carpet side um
and they're they're
they're webinars we've done one for goku
air on there before
but their webinars are really
informative um
i would i would suggest uh signing up
with the fcica now i'm not sure on every
resource if you have to be a member to
be
part of it or not so you'll have to
decipher through each one
we might be able to put some some more
information
ashlynn can do that
on the resource guide but
the inboxes is full of stuff and uh
what i'm saying with the webinar is
i know when you look at it it can be
like i don't have 30 minutes but to get
the same information you got to have a
rep come into your office it's going to
take two hours so the thing is is even
like when i was in the field i would put
a webinar on and i wouldn't pay
you know i wouldn't focus 100 percent of
my attention to the webinar i'd be
working over here
leave the phone wherever i can get
signal and just listen and then once i'm
like oh let me let me pay attention to
this real quick go grab the phone look
at it
but the the information is
is very valuable i mean that's um
really where
like for an example i was working
um i don't know bronton is about an hour
and 15 minutes away from here
and uh
working out there doing a brand new
hospital and the mapei was doing one on
their
uh lbt for shower system and i was like
this is sounds interesting to me so i
listened to it came back told him and
we're like let's start talking to him
and pay
uh you know and talked to sam and biando
and uh
the other guy
craig or jeffrey jeff
you know a number of people and then we
ended up getting you know some material
and boom our office has a shower in it
out of lvt
yeah
it's actually pretty sweet looking i
prefer to take a shower here at the
office and i do it
well it's um it's stuff like that i mean
who
i seen now you go to that and then you
follow up with going to surfaces where i
seen
the lvt in the shower and you kind of
can touch and feel it so it's a good
it's good supporting documents for you
to kind of know what's going on when
when you do go to convention or to um to
a show
some of the notable shows we've
mentioned in the past but
surfaces coverings surfaces is all
things flooring
aliens a little more residential
uh coverings is all hard tile all over
the world
ceramic tile of italy of spain portugal
i mean everybody who makes manufacturers
tile
is pretty much there
you got tsp which is a another ceramic
tile
called total solutions plus
that has an annual convention as well
and that is really focused on
uh education
for
the tile industry
um you got
obviously cfi convention which is really
focused on training and
installers let's see other notable ntca
which is the national tile council of
america or association
one of the two uh
then you got um so they obviously are
very focused on tile they got a great
program called five star
um
uh
contractor which you can become as a
flooring company
if you go through certain things um it's
pretty hard to get there but it's it's
pretty valuable there's some specs out
there that require five stars
uh contractors to do uh the work
the nwfa is the national wood flooring
association and that's all things
hardwood and if you ever get a chance to
go to st louis and look at their
facility and see them see some of the
stuff that they have done with hardwood
it's absolutely amazing
and then you've got uh let's see went
through the ent oh fcef everybody that
one is um their
main goal
and they could use your your support too
um their main goal is
helping us solve the labor issues so
they're doing a lot of recruiting
they're working with a lot of uh
community colleges
uh they've got a 10 week
kind of i believe
it i know it's ten weeks i don't know
what they call it a certified program or
whatever it's a training a ten week
training program
okay
um
that is being done in a lot of
a couple of community colleges at this
point i believe um
so they're awesome to be involved with
and kind of see where that's heading
um
let's see what else i know i'm missing
several here but
um
anyway we'll have it all on the resource
list to keep the the the ideas to
you know get plugged in like daniel said
you know you're going to get this into
your inbox you get the choice of whether
to watch
read or whatever and um
and uh take advantage of that
information once you sign up for some of
these things too like the fcica
it's uh
once the webinars are pushed out there
you know you can attend it live but if
you can't make it everything's recorded
and you can get in there and watch it
later too yeah good point yeah they
record every webinar so if you miss one
like daniel said you can go back and
watch it
yeah and i mean if you really look at um
i think everyone pretty much has their
own magazine out too right and
the the information in there is actually
coming from people that are living it
we've written a few articles um i
actually haven't posted on our website
so people can
kind of click through and see what we've
written but
it's a lot of valuable information there
too and then
the the best thing about those articles
is like if you read something from one
of us and then you go to one of these
conventions and you're like hey i read
your article
can we talk about this and you know
that's what happened at tfi convention
and it was awesome to to know that
one people are reading these things and
two
they do have some input and
want to pick your brain not only about
you know what you wrote but about their
thoughts on it and how
how your views of something depending on
what you're talking about maybe you know
a little off or
you know everyone's not gonna agree on
everything but if it's definitely about
an installation method or
a standard uh those are kind of set in
stone
sure but you you bring up a good point i
mean
um you guys have written articles i
think i've written
five or six articles over the years here
uh the key what i'm saying that for is
if you're tied into the to the
organization you have a chance to write
articles too they want content so if you
you get in touch with them and discuss
and you have something important you
want to say
uh to the industry
um
and you know get get your uh research
out there or whatever it is um you know
i've written articles on the labor
shortage i've written articles on using
digital tools and how flooring's a bit
behind from construction in general is a
bit behind in technology we're catching
up honestly
but uh flooring is kind of lagging even
the construction side from a technology
standpoint we had a whole podcast about
technology and stuff you know so
um
but
whatever it is you are passionate about
uh within the industry or even just
business in general you
you will find that there are
opportunities out there to write the
articles yourself and uh you know work
with whether it's scica or whomever on
uh you know getting your article
published
yeah
and it's not that they want the articles
they need the articles right like they
need the content there there's there's
um
a lot of instances where they're just
reaching out saying hey can you just
write us something on one of these 20
subjects yeah like just your views and
it's only like dangerous it's only one
view
um and we can only speak for our
experiences but man it's
it'd be nice to see some new names and
some of these articles and read it
yeah i mean that's a great opportunity
for people to go through they typically
would send out basically an excel
spreadsheet with the different
publications and the requirements for
those publications and then some titles
they're looking to fill
and if you feel like you're an expert in
that area and you've uh you're tied in
with the organization so they know
you're an expert uh you got a good
chance of being published so
yeah what else do you guys do
hands-on man just a lot of hands-on like
um you know we don't have a very big
warehouse or a shot per se but
if there's material out there or
something that is coming across the desk
and we're
not familiar with it we'll make the
phone calls we'll call the wraps we'll
try to get some material whether
it's donated or we purchase it to get
the hands-on
and then from there you start educating
yourself like this isn't working now
let's look to see what tooling is out
there to help this or we'll reach out to
the networks and say hey who's worked
with this before what are you guys using
uh why are you using that you know and
you'll get a bunch of different answers
but it's really a comfort thing and
you get a lot of people involved in the
conversation and it starts a whole
conversation about it and then
it brings to the surface some of the
answers that some other people don't
know or wouldn't even think about asking
and they're
another
opportunity for an aha moment yeah
like we're talking about you know
staying up to date the the biggest thing
is knowing who your reps are and talking
to them about stuff um because once you
it's it's never really to the point
where they're gonna start coming to you
and being like hey
you want to start talking you you
actually have to initiate the
conversation most the time and then once
you do you establish that relationship
and then
they'll start coming to you so you know
we get two manufacturers and stuff like
that they're like hey we got this new
tool coming out can you guys uh
you know check it out and let us know
your thoughts or you know we're having a
really hard time pushing this one tool
or product will you guys work with it
and kind of give us your feedback and
you know we we do we've made videos and
i mean
we've actually made videos to the points
where we're like yeah you know what
we'll record something put it on youtube
and then once we start recording
it's like hey let's let's just stop
recording this and start recording
like something just for these people so
they can know what to tweet before
like
this product
this is i can't push this product
because there's something wrong with it
we're gonna let them know and then they
we can you know
get that next prototype and move on from
there that comes from being involved
at convention everywhere like danny and
those you know with wolf or
the taylor guys or getting in touch with
the manufacturer so that they
yeah or the tool makers in this case
so that they know to even
send you something
right they even know who you are i mean
so that's getting to convention or
getting to
the different shows where
the tool manufacturers display their
stuff and they're they love doing that
so
they love the feedback right because
if they're not making something that
you're going to use
why are they even making it so if that
something can just be tweaked a little
bit like
if we just tweak this we can sell this
much more that's really the information
that they need
you know once you establish that
relationship they'll start reaching out
hey check this out and then you know we
we're notorious for giving honest
feedback
so
it's like this is this is what's wrong
with it this is what i don't like and
this is why this isn't going to be in my
toolbox like
some sometimes it's just yeah sometimes
there's a tool that
well the same thing goes with adhesives
and stuff like that i gotta he's i know
adhesives i just don't care to use you
know i'm not gonna name anybody's name
but i'm just saying you know
you you get messing with something and
you figure out the goods and bads of it
and
report back
yeah i mean look they need content they
need feedback they need all this stuff
and they just need more
daniels and jose's and paul's to be out
there talking and
and and trying their products out and if
you really look at it like when we were
at cfi convention um
mohawk was a huge part of that and alana
was like
talking to us a lot and she's like i
need to know
you know i need
installer feedback so that way we can
know that we're engineering products
that are not only going to be look good
on the floor but be installer friendly
and and perform the way they need to be
yeah and seem and they they they look
pretty and they they seem like they'd
work uh you know
in the manufacturing plant but you got
to get them out in the field to kind of
mess with them a bit see what the
dependencies are
what the problems are
you know
that kind of stuff so
i think cool yeah i thought that her off
guard too was like she has hey what
about this product
i wouldn't even put it in in my house i
wouldn't do it why not it's just
said because i live in michigan it's
just not going to perform where i'm at
yeah i know it's going to fail i
nobody's going to take care of it the
way it's supposed to i don't want it i
don't want it to fail
but that's what started that
conversation well that's nice and deep
and uh getting to know the product but
uh
for sure
well um
so another good way is
join the huddle weekly uh we're here
every tuesday at three o'clock i think
we've
we're on episode
14 or 15 or something
we haven't we've missed uh one i believe
uh maybe two but uh for the most part
we're here um
again we're trying to create a
comprehensive
resource list for you guys so
uh we're gonna publish that like i said
ashton's gonna put it on our social here
the next uh
maybe this afternoon but more than
likely over the next day or so
and um
you know provide your feedback if you
have any questions if we're missing
anything you know just just let us know
i'll reach out to these guys and and if
i don't have the answer they you know
one of us will and we'll get a resource
for you so um
outside that
the huddle was uh a little different
this week
we weren't going real in depth on uh you
know in a topic that you you drill into
but i did want to talk about some of the
ways you can keep your thumb on the
pulse these guys do it great that's why
it's so good to have them on there they
you see them everywhere they're
always at you know conventions and shows
and they're always talking with the
right people and so that's
i guess the last point would be don't be
shy when you get to the shows and
convention come up say hi to any of us
and and
certainly
we may have been pointing to other
people yeah we made it a point at the
last conventions where
if uh if we seen someone sitting by
themselves it's like
let me go sit next to this guy and just
you know talk to him for a little bit
and
you know a lot of people
it's their first time they they have no
idea what they're even walking into yeah
so in order to
be comfortable sometimes you have to
have someone to approach you and so
that's what we did last time and
breaking the ice for him is really what
it was and
i just send wayne pruitt out there and
he breaks the ice for for well he's he's
fantastic
fantastic
but then he doesn't show up yeah that's
true too
and he knows it
uh
i love you dwayne um
but anyway
that's about it for this week guys uh
it's amazing that took almost 30 minutes
just uh going through that but
um
you guys got anything signing off
uh grab that with baby sister
this is why you gotta
get into the
magazines and stuff like that
yeah that's awesome
she put a picture of me on there because
she felt bad oh yeah
both of us are on here just to
moral support yeah basically
like
yeah and you guys basically drag little
sister into uh to her first competition
and and really getting involved herself
and
and she's emerging as not only you know
being recognized as a great installer
but also a leader from
for for females in our industry i i know
i've talked to several
uh ladies who
admire her very much
and
um
so yeah you get to meet people
um
but staying in tune i know we preach a
lot about getting the convention but
that's because this is our our
only not our only method but it's a
really good method of staying in touch
with people that can make a difference
in your business
um and so we just encourage it a lot
um
and then of course
just to recap
we'll we'll uh we'll publish this
resource uh
this resource page and hopefully it
helps everybody out a little bit so if
you got any questions feel free to email
us
um support go carrera got any questions
uh for daniel and jose you guys want to
plug your email
if they if they have any uh install
questions or do you have uh you can
email either one of us uh daniel or jose
at pfmi.team
awesome
all right guys well thanks for joining
me on this short huddle and uh it's good
seeing you guys again and we will talk
to you soon all right all right next
time
next week guys
The Huddle - Episode 15 - The Path to Success
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose piggy-back off of last week's episode to give their final thoughts on setting goals, and setting yourself up for success.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up everybody and welcome to
the Huddle where we come at you weekly
to discuss maintaining forward progress
in your flooring career any career for
that uh matter as we've found through
this journey uh most of the concepts
here are just uh conceptually business
just so happens we're in fluorine
uh hopefully we're able to provide some
value for you guys this week last week
was about goals and and setting them
this week uh we are going to be talking
about
um really the value and the plan to
succeed and your your goals as you work
through them the real value
is just as important in the plan as it
is the success itself so
uh really just a
um boiled down uh concept as it as we go
uh talking about goal and uh goals and
you know may
um sorry a little tongue-tied uh
achieving those goals so you know we
talked about writing them down and and
all of that so creating a plan is kind
of the next
step for any goal and
um
I'm not going to go through I mean I'm
sure we'll touch on some some ways that
each one of us plan but
I just wanted to bring up that the
um the real value as I talked about last
week and you guys discussed as well that
failure is not should not be looked at
as just this big negative thing that
that's where we learn uh that's how we
adjust and kind of get on course uh you
know they say a missile on a way you
know like a laser-guided missile on a
way to its Target
is off course about 80 percent of the
time it's always off course and
correcting as it goes right Wind Blows
it and it comes back and it's always
failing and it fails its way all the way
to that Target
and that's how we have to be we have to
believe that as long as we're moving
towards that goal as we hit failures we
just readjust and come back into keeping
that Target or that goal in in our
sights
so I'll give you an example I've I've
been working on a a large national
account deal and um I did a uh we're
we're working on a coding
um to be chemical resistant and
different things so we've worked with
many different coding uh products and um
each one of them have failed in some
Manner and just guided us to either the
next product or for example uh I read
some results uh or looked at some
results from a 24-hour test and one of
the main
products or chemicals we have to test
against is acid
well with 24 hours of this codeine being
down and 24 hours of dwell time with the
harsh chemical of acid
it has failed the coating failed so we
would expect uh you know
some level of that failure and that's
going to tell us what's next and so what
I'm saying is don't look at his negative
thing and that's kind of what this is
about making your plan but realizing
that when you get off course if you just
understand that that's not failure
that's just telling you to adjust and
get back on track to the to to that
Target so
I know I've got a lot of that that's
happened in my life and happens uh daily
I kind of accept failure as just a a
tool that's where I gain my tools and my
toolbox uh to um you know attack
different scenarios and business or or
in installation or whatever it may be so
what's your guys thoughts on that I know
it's kind of a continuation of last week
but I didn't didn't want to uh
completely abandon goals they seem to be
you know like the Paramount thing that
we should all do right
I I totally agree
um with us being co-owners and you know
we're
constantly coming up with ideas him more
than me right but a lot of the time it's
like that's that's a dumb idea and then
a lot of the time just like you know
what we're just gonna do it your way and
then when it comes down to it it's never
like a when I Told You So or I told you
this wasn't gonna work it's like
we tried we tried let's let's do
something else now and just to go back
on that too like uh you know preferred
flooring is what my third time trying to
do a flooring business installation
business uh per se but uh
it was everything that we learned from
day one from the first attempt to the
second attempt you know for the first
partnership separating from that
gentleman going on my own trying to go
the uh Women Business Enterprise route
that didn't work out uh you know trying
to have my mother become you know 51
owner that didn't work but he stepped
with the way Daniel was part of that
um whether he knew it or not he was
still part of it
um
and then we got to this right here we
already knew exactly what we didn't want
to do
um and that was because of you know like
the the perception of failure didn't
fail it just didn't work so make some
changes so that way we can all learn so
we can be better this time
um and that's really all it is is it's
hard for some people to view it that way
I know it can be tough in the mix it can
be really tough and I've got some you
know different scenarios that I could
run through uh I wanted to keep this
kind of concise on technique of getting
through those things
uh but
if you're pushing the limit or you're
pushing the barrier of what you've done
before you are going to have some
setbacks that now learning from those is
is what I'm preaching what I'm what I'm
saying we should do I know that's
difficult it's especially difficult when
money is involved yes and finances and
things like that can really stress I
know for from experience
um it can stress that your tolerance you
know if it was a rubber band it
stretched all the way out sometimes when
it comes when you add money to the mix
um so what I would say is
the plan
is part of that so you're you're trying
to make as best of a plan as you can to
achieve whatever goal
um you have in mind now
goals vary so much that we I think it
would be you could waste two hours or
use two hours of time trying to uh you
know run the run different types of
goals through this Theory but the fact
is is
if you can if you can have a good plan
you'll eliminate some of the failure
than just going at it you know what I
mean uh if you want to be
I don't know if you want to if you're a
a small business owner and you want to
double your growth well how do you
achieve that uh you don't just say okay
I'm gonna go bid twice as much work I
mean that would make sense but that
might not be the best way to go about
that goal so really making a plan
um
we we found in that kind of a realm that
monitoring our land rates with as a
commander and
type of project and stuff like that was
a good way to to look at it and plan
based off of the feedback given so a lot
of times what I'm getting at here is the
plan turns into action turns into
feedback turns into readjusting and more
action and that's kind of what the way
that I I've looked at it
um
I'm not great at executing on it I'm
good but I'm not great I got a lot of
room to improve I know some guys that do
that process and they just seem you know
one of the some of these guys just seem
like they're Superman when it comes to
like being able to adjust from a plan
that they had to reach a goal adjust and
then react
um with the same Target in mind but
readjusting
um yeah it's pretty fascinating when you
see guys at the top of performance and
you know we all know that Elon Musk of
the world if you you looked I've read
his book and if you've looked through
all the setbacks and failures and
changes and things that he had to go
through to get to the point of launching
a rocket
um I mean
I know we're not we're not launching
Rockets over here but my point is is
that readjusting and not taking that as
a as a failure so
yeah that's a
that's a hard one to get through right
everyone sees all the successes that you
have they don't understand the steps
that you take that you've taken to get
there they don't see all the failures
but one success can have a hundred
failures but as long as you have that
one success at at the end of The 100
failures because you're learning from it
and your process is going to evolve and
um to add on to what you said about the
gentlemen who are like Superman
um you know some some guys they have
that that strength where they just have
that foresight like you know they start
seeing those dominoes falling in a
pattern that they don't want it to fall
so they start adjusting before it gets
to the last Domino and then they they
you know they Veer a little bit they
help it out they help steer it the way
it needs to be done
um to experience the success they're
looking for I think a lot of that comes
from the plan itself
um I can do better at putting more
effort in the plan of a of achieving a
goal
um I think that's where I can improve to
be honest and possibly be able to course
correct sooner just like you said that
you see something's going to go wrong as
opposed to waiting for it to go wrong
um so
I would say some specific techniques
have you guys used any
um
do you guys when you set a goal or you
have something on the vision board
detract the progress versus a timeline
or have you have you started that's
something that's something that we have
to work on too was actually uh setting
dates I think right because you we set
open-ended goals like uh we want to get
here we want to have this done but then
um the vision board is kind of what what
you know put this in my head is because
we talked you know we talked last week
about baby sister and doing the vision
boards and stuff and we told the guys
hey do the vision boards
we still have a handful of guys that
haven't got it done so it's like
you guys had two weeks like there's no
reason for this like this stuff has to
be done by next week no ifs and your
butts set the date that way you have
something to shoot for cause
realistically
you know humans are procrastinators
right we're gonna wait till the very
last minute in order to get something
done
well I I read a quote that said you know
if you give yourself 30 days to clean
the house it's going to take you 30 days
if you give yourself three days it'll
take you three you know uh or three
hours I mean the point is is that in
some aggressive timelines to it
um you know how efficient you are in
that last
if we use the house the last day that
you're cleaning the house you are Ultra
efficient and really good
the 29 days ahead of that you may not
have been near as efficient like when
that deadline's there you know what I
mean
it's setting that deadline I think I
think is is a big thing and then uh
Rollin actually asked if
if any of us have sat down and built a
short-term and long-term business plan
and us we have not but I have talked to
the Small Business Development Council
because they give free classes and you
know they'll actually assign you someone
that'll actually work on it with you and
I've I've been talking to them a little
bit and trying to eventually get
something set up to the points where I
can break off and actually take some
time to do it but have we actually done
it no and you know that's something that
we need to improve on too is actually
putting something like that in place
um coming from how small we were to
where we're at now we never really
thought that we would need one but then
the bigger you get the more you realize
like man it would have been way easier
if we would have did this like five
years ago when it was just a handful of
people and we actually you don't think
about it right because we were in the
field all the time and it's like but
really we had more time back then than
we actually do right now yeah it's crazy
how that works I we kind of touch on
that I can't remember which huddle it
was but we kind of touch on that same
thing where doing it early you know
whether you're just getting started get
a bank account get an entity set up you
know doing those things early
um will come at you you'll come out
ahead and it's similar to that it took
us to several years before we did that
but we have done a few times uh short
and long-term business plans
the
short term is always a breakdown of the
long term it's like the kind of plan
within a plan is the way we've done it
in the past
um again sometimes we don't hit those
those uh those objectives and then
sometimes we've surprised ourselves so
either way you kind of just have to you
know be
um fluid in it meaning don't take
anything you know I probably what didn't
do anything Ultra great when I got
surprised and things went well sometimes
things just work out well sometimes
things just don't work out and you gotta
adjust as well but um you know so the
answer is yeah we've we have on our side
done uh short term and long-term
business uh planning a lot of that you
can do with your Banker as well if you
got a good Banker they love to do that
stuff if he's a good Banker a Hands-On
kind of guy I found those guys are
pretty
they they're pretty bought into your
business because they're helping you
finance the things so a lot of times
they have been inherent you know uh skin
in the game so to speak uh but that's
awesome you guys are going to take the
step with the small business
administration is that correct or is
that true Business Development Council
so okay
it's we got introduced
um to them through the local chamber and
then when we started looking at getting
uh certified to become a minority
business Enterprise it's something that
I never even knew existed until I
started looking into and it's like man
these guys offer a bunch of stuff at no
cost and it's like
might have to take advantage of this
sometime you get into the right programs
in the right groups there's a lot of
information at your disposal a lot of
help right but
ton and walk you through it they're
going to say
this is the direction you have to go
this is where your information is
located and yeah you got to take some
initiative yeah they'll bring you to
water but they're not going to make you
drink
yeah well I think a lot of times uh
you bring up a good point that there's a
lot of resources out there that we
probably
um
you know it it'd be helpful
if you kind of understood what the
chamber brings uh you know the chambers
involved in a lot of that and different
um you know different cities
um so a good piece of of advice might be
to get with your local chamber and and
ask about small business resources and
planning uh business planning gets
really deep past goals even because you
start really planning on
not just
financially or or size or whatever your
goals are but you're really getting down
into the nitty-gritty of how you're
going to get there and what your assets
are from uh financing standpoint and if
uh if those all align for you to
actually be able to hit that goal or hit
you know make that business plan a
reality
so it's a good exercise
um
I would just
reiterate that the importance of like
being
okay with not hitting that
it's always the touchy subject because
you want people to go at their goals
aggressively but at the same time not be
deflated if you don't hit those and I
know I keep harping on that but I've
personally been affected in the past
where you have this goal you really
think you're going to hit it and then
things don't happen the way you want
them to and it can be deflating I just
want to encourage people just to kind of
strap up your boots and realize that
that's a possibility and when it does
happen don't let it deflate you just
realize that that's course correction
and to get back on the right course
right and I think a lot of this has to
do like um we're talking about the
chamber and stuff like that and a lot of
this
kind of came our way because a friend of
mine that I went to high school with
reached out and um
his dad was vice president of one of the
larger construction companies over here
at the time and he was like hey are you
a part of the minority contractors
Association I was like I have no idea
and then he got into how it's part of
the chamber and how you know they got
this going on and then it's like
it's the information right and then you
have to be vulnerable to to actually
realize all right I have a goal but I
don't know how to get there I can
actually have resources at my you know
fingertips saying to ask questions so I
can say hey I'm kind of stuck right here
it's not even can you help me it's do
you know anyone that can help me because
their network is so vast that they know
everyone in the area and they're like
they're they're quick to put out a name
boom this person will be able to help
you out boom this person and be able to
help you out and it's a
we talk about networking all the time
and usually we're talking about you know
going to the conventions and stuff but
this is a great local networking type of
thing to where
um they do man they can kind of put your
goals into
smaller chunks like and and things that
you never really thought about so
they'll take it and be like well have
you tried this and it's like man I never
even thought of that and then that's all
you need to get going yeah it's a bad
story man they help you connect the dots
well and getting you in touch with other
people that you can communicate with
um you know the old saying your network
is your net worth and it it has to be it
has to do with be surrounding yourself
with people with like mindset and
surrounding yourself with people who are
goal oriented and being able to to
utilize uh other people's wisdom you
know
um I do a lot of quotes here but I heard
a quote that a smart man learns from his
own mistakes and a wise man learns from
others
so
um you know
if you can
kind of get to know other people that
can help you see some of those pitfalls
um in growing business then that's a net
plus so that's what you get from the
chamber right yeah and it's it's like a
trickle effect right you you start with
your goal in mind and then you meet
other people and then bounce ideas off
of them and then that's where you start
you know going all over the place right
and and readjusting and that that's kind
of what we've done and then through the
chamber we've also
um joined our local Builder Builders
Exchange and then through the Builders
Exchange there was a group of guys uh
two guys in there that
um just started a construction company
and it was like I already met one of the
guys at the gym when he worked for
another one but it was like you know
that got us talking and I was just at
lunch with them earlier today and we're
doing you know projects for them now and
it's like a lot of this networking stuff
and talking to people about your goals
that actually lead you
to expanding that like I never thought
that doing this one class was going to
lead us to I think we've done four jobs
for them this year
and uh
it's they were pretty sizable jobs
well that's where you find synergies
right that is when you're working next
to people and you you end up just things
just seem to work out those are
synergies that because you have similar
goals or similar aspirations and and
you're working with other people that
that share those uh those synergies seem
to happen and you just uh that's pretty
cool it was not a class too by the way
so just to let everyone know it was
called applied estimating applied
estimating we were the only flooring
individuals in there but
we just wanted to learn more and it led
to that it was just a class to help
educate us through the general
contractor's eyes
um for contracts and actually it was
through the through the Architects
Architects that is correct yeah wow and
the guy that was leading the class
actually like it got down to the
make sure you read everything in the
contract because they'll put line items
in there like include this in your bin
if you don't and you win the bid guess
what you're coming out of pocket for
that now yeah
yeah we did a bit of a dive on the
contracts and stuff in an earlier huddle
they can certainly
I mean make or break you and but
learning from you know the people you
get around I I think one of the things
that all this kind of plays into is
again getting involved so many times
small business owners don't believe that
they should uh take the time to to go to
these classes or to you know expand your
knowledge I would say when we when we
did the Huddle on starting your business
or expanding your business we talked
about the need to uh you know gain
knowledge education educating yourself
and you guys have obviously done that
and that's that's admirable and also
very necessary to take those next steps
it's all kind of priming the pump so to
speak to uh take you to the next level
so
I I know it can sometimes feel like you
know I can't I don't have time to do X Y
and Z and we're all in that boat like
you guys are busy you have to make the
time for that right you guys had to like
carve out the time and go yeah it goes
back to what what I like to say all the
time it's I started saying it when we
switched over from 1099 to W2 right and
it's like
we keep on saying that
I can't afford it right and at some
point we have to start switching our
mindset to we can't afford not to do it
so that's kind of what what we've been
doing and
you got to start being proactive instead
of reacting and you're reactive it might
be a little too late
um and you still learn if you're
reactive you're still learning but if
you're proactive you're making
Corrections before uh the bad situation
arises and
well you're planning planning that's all
I was going to say it goes back to
actually having a plan yeah
cool well this is gonna uh be a shorter
uh huddle than normal
um just because we really Dove pretty
deep into all these Concepts last week I
just wanted to expand on you know the
plan itself and and understanding that
the you know all these sayings the
journey not the destination all of that
stuff is because of what you learned
during the the planning and start and
that execution or the journey phase
most people get to a goal and they're
like Ah that's not as satisfying as I
thought but they really look back and
say man I learned a lot through that
process so that's what I'm encouraging
everybody to do is to kind of push
yourself to expand your limits and
um you know make a plan
realize that we're not writing down the
Ten Commandments in stone we're we're
putting our best guess is imperfect
human beings uh as to what we want to
have happen
if it doesn't happen exactly that way we
just have to course correct so
awesome well I know this was really
short this week you guys got anything to
jump in on and and uh anything to add
before we close it up for the this
huddle short week short huddle yeah just
um
I would say to everybody just just
understand that what no matter what
you're doing if you're trying to grow
expand or if you're trying to stay uh
just an individual or with a couple of
uh employees
just know that you're going to look back
and at what you've accomplished in
do yourself a favor make sure that
you're proud of what you accomplished
make sure that there is no regrets right
like don't regret anything
um do your best to try to put yourself
10 years ahead and look back
you'll you'll see what Corrections need
to be made uh it'll give you a little
bit more drive if you're not in a good
spot right now or if you want to be in a
different spot
um there are options
and I'll just say what I just said it's
uh
gotta stop saying that you can't afford
to do things you can start realizing
that you can't afford not to do them
good pieces guys good nuggets I
appreciate you guys this week and uh
we'll see you guys next week and um
I'm gonna we're gonna work to publish
what each week's uh Huddle's gonna be on
our website so we can so everybody kind
of knows ahead of time what we'll be
talking about uh we're gonna set that up
we're trying to make things kind of flow
so we should have that up before next
Tuesday we're hoping uh but otherwise
um we will will continue to be on the
Huddle uh you guys uh anybody on we
certainly appreciate you joining us and
if you have any questions
um
you know please feel free to to ask
those questions I would say the one uh
bit of uh communication here is
uh the question of Ethics when it comes
to uh all of this so I would just say
you know doing things ethically and and
trying to do things what is you know
considered to be right can can get
blurred sometimes you have to really
rely on your your morals sometimes and
and making sure you're doing right by
your cut your company your employees and
society as a whole
um uh when you're making these plans
this isn't just
a lot of times if we're planning just on
our on our uh for personal goals you
know it can feel really selfish
um
that's okay but at the same time you
gotta you gotta have a good moral
compass to what you're going against
money just gaining money I think is
where that comment came from uh is not
shouldn't be the goal I mean we gotta
you gotta do the things that make the
money as the goal and let money come
um you do good work you do qual do good
quality be trained uh do good business
practices uh that that eventually turns
into money so
um that's the best way I can answer that
question or
so all right guys well I appreciate you
joining and I'm gonna call you on the
phone after this
all right
all right thanks guys
The Huddle - Episode 14 - Setting Realistic Goals
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose talk about the importance of setting specific and realistic goals, and how to go about achieving them.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
whoa what's up everybody welcome to the
huddle where we come at you every week
to discuss
maintaining forward progress in your
flooring career
really just about any uh
business uh this applies to but
today
joining me is daniel at least for the
moment right now
um
so we're gonna talk about uh setting
realistic goals uh it's something i've
worked on a lot in my life um i thought
i'd get your guys's perspective but
the reason this is is
uh
our businesses in construction
uh really require
goals even if they're daily project
goals or
or financial goals or
growth goals
um i've had the pleasure of being
mentored by some of the uh
leading entrepreneurs in in
the united states on this matter
uh i have not perfected it even close
but
i know what they say and i know what i
try to do as much as possible
so i thought i'd share that and then get
your guys's take on what you guys kind
of do
um
you know from that perspective so
just to start off i would say that um
a lot of people will tell you
to you know set realistic goals and
that's kind of what we talked about in
our title but it's a little catch-22
there
short-term goals or you know weekly
monthly
um
even yearly
uh you may want realistic but
uh at the end of
the day when you're looking at a big
vision you really want something that's
going to drive you it's going to
challenge you
and really
hold your feet to the fire
the idea
and
there's a lot of confluence a lot of
people that believe in this way
if you're aiming for the stars you'll
hit the moon type scenario right like
you may not hit that goal although you
try like hell
um
the truth is you might not hit it but
you also
you don't know where your
where your limit is
if you always have a goal that you can
reach and you know you'll reach and you
hit that and then you go to the next one
well that will move you forward it's not
going to slingshot you
so that's kind of the premise here
i like to set
annual goals for the company and for
myself
and um
but then on a day-to-day basis we have
project goals you know like
day to day what you are trying to get
done in a in a given day with a given
crew or for your own crew
those types of things need to be highly
realistic because you gotta
obviously
that information gets shared to your
client to the
general contractor maybe the end user
you may be working for
so that's almost like to-do's
but they're still goals right you want
them to be realistic when you're talking
about big financial goals um i make them
scary sometimes they're impossible to
hit at least
[Music]
that's what i think in the beginning
uh
a lot of times you get a lot closer than
you probably imagined
so setting big goals and dreaming big
i'm a big proponent of and then breaking
that down
into actionable steps that you can take
on a daily or weekly basis to make sure
you're moving towards that goal and your
ability to execute on your daily or
weekly
tasks
or goals that move you to your big goal
uh determine if you make it
and uh so that's kind of how i've
approached it um i'll give some examples
maybe here in
in this call about a few different goals
that how i set them and how i reached
them but
uh
what do you what do you guys do on your
side i i'm speaking mostly business but
personal is important too because
there's a balance to all this
yeah
for our goals
like especially lately it's been
small ones right um
just
being able to write things down and go
through the list and getting daily daily
stuff done
has been a struggle for a long time so i
mean
got
posted notes everywhere to remind myself
i got books everywhere to
[Music]
you you gotta
you know
that's a goal of mine is to get more
organized and to actually
stay on task and without writing stuff
down like that
it's real easy to get on some some
tangents and just
not even realize
you know how much time is lost in a day
when you don't stay on task
that's a big piece of it right is
writing them down
writing your big goals down but then
breaking them down
and when i say big goals they could be
big tasks uh andy fursella
i'm
i've
had the pleasure of being
mentored by him
and one of his things is like
what are the five most important things
you can do today that move you closer to
your long-term vision
and if you can do those five things
every day and then obviously you're
gonna have these ancillary tasks that
come up and and creep onto your to-do
list but these five things
you know the the power list as he calls
it
that is um
that is
the way you
you know continue to keep forward motion
or forward progress towards a bigger
goal so if your goal
if my goal was to be an xyz
sized company
then i break that down into actionable
steps and then what five things can i do
on a daily basis what phone calls emails
or whatever so
and then keeping your to-do list that
keeps you on task for all your daily
tasks this is kind of on the um
almost separate from that although they
can play together but yeah writing i
guess i was just saying writing them
down is huge yeah and like you said you
know it's almost uh
you you want to get the big picture type
stuff right and set that goal and then
almost reverse engineer that into all
right this is my goal what steps do i
need to to get there and then break
those steps down further all the way
down to your daily tasks so that way
you're always following something to get
to your goal
so uh rollin is on facebook right now
and he asks if we feel
that goals and self-drive go side by
side
um
i think you got to have
some internal motivation to set goals uh
if you go up to the average person
uh it's like one in every you know 10 to
15 people even have written goals
so um and there's other studies that
show it's like one in a hundred so yeah
i think you got to be somewhat motivated
self-motivated to
write them down
um and then of course
you know we're talking owners to owners
here
who's gonna who's gonna make you do it
it's gotta be you
rollins
same way he's in his own you know he's a
head honcho man who's gonna make him do
those things it's it's him it's it's
your self drive and your self motivation
so that's a good question and a good
good insight if you think about it
because uh it kind of tells you what may
be missing in a lot of people's
um
you know ability to uh log their goals
and follow i i got i'll be
100 transparent i haven't written my
goals down in six months i'm really
ashamed of it i'm sitting here doing
a podcast about writing down goals but i
have seen the power of it
you know i've done it for years and
years and years but i can also tell you
from not doing it the the way that i've
done it in the past for the last i don't
know four to six months or something i
can see a difference i'm not achieving
the things
i'm not taking those steps
it's like taking a ladder
if you have your goals written down and
you're doing this kind of daily ritual
of like trying to get those five things
done that'll move you closer to your
goal
all of a sudden you look and you skipped
a few rungs
you're up the ladder higher than what
you thought
closer to your goal so i can tell you
from both practicing it and then uh you
know have lacking the self-discipline or
um
uh that's all it really is and doing it
this last four to four to
six months something like that
yeah i think that yeah you have to
really be motivated in order to want to
get somewhere else um a lot of the the
people
you know stay where they're at because
although they want to get there they
have no motivation to get there right
they just
want to get their eight and skate
so to speak
do you think they want to get there or
do they want to get the rewards of being
there
a lot of it has to do with the whole uh
human nature of
you know wanting that instant
gratification right
and
it's
why can't i just start working here and
in six months make as much money as
the best installer well you're not as
good as that best installer so you got
some work to do
and
they see
from the outside looking in you see
wow they're great but they don't see the
20 years that they put in in order to
get to where they're at they just want
to be
boom let me start doing this and be as
good as you and i mean don't get me
wrong there's some people that come in
and you know a couple months down the
road you're like man this dude surprised
you the person is moving
yeah
well
i asked that question because i i think
there's a lot of people that are stuck
in the uh social media world and you
know i i'm on social media i use it as a
tool
sometimes for entertainment as well
but
i
i don't look at somebody who has
uh
you know that's that's maybe has a
lifestyle or something that that would
be appealing to me and say
oh man i want that and i don't i don't
but i don't want to do the work to get
there but i want that you know i realize
the effort that goes behind things and
that
being lucky is kind of
there's an element of luck to just about
everything
but it's pretty small really
what i've learned is
luck is really when preparedness meets
opportunity you know when you have an
opportunity and you're prepared and then
a couple years later you look lucky i
mean it looks like dude this guy went
from this to that
all of a sudden well
what about the other 18 years it took to
get to get ready and then be open to the
opportunity so i think a lot of that is
is um you know has to be considered if
you're if you're looking at that stuff i
wouldn't get
motivated by things get motivated by
accomplishment of
your tasks and your goals
because that usually leads to
the lifestyle that you want
yeah i
watch a lot of documentaries right
i don't think my kids in my life love it
but anytime i'm actually watching tv
it's on a documentary and i'm actually
learning something
and uh
like it's crazy the way like even
you know the rock stars that we look at
and the famous singers and stuff out
there you watch their documentaries and
that's what they say you know they had a
goal in mind
and they wanted to do anything they they
could do to get there and you really
don't see the struggles that they went
through until you watch something like
that that and it's like
man this dude was just brushed off by
everyone and he never quit
yeah because he he seen that goal and he
wasn't gonna stop until he got there
right
yeah it's like that harry potter book
right
i think she got like denied
by 10 or 12 publishers or whatever
before
someone either took a chance on her i
can't remember if she self-published it
or what but
i remember reading a story that she was
denied by
like multiple yeah yeah
and they they thought and look at that
that thing made her a billionaire you
know
that one that one story line turned into
the saga of you know
harry potter stuff is still coming out
yeah
so
yeah i'd say don't quit
but
you know when i'm writing goals uh
you know and i'm really motivated here i
am sitting talking about goals i'm i'm
motivated to um restart my
my um
ritual of a daily
i still have my power list i i have
the five things
but
it's kind of like the ship in the harbor
without a
without a root or a captain like if i
don't have a goal i'm just kind of doing
stuff and even though they seem
important at the time
if i'm not aimed at something then the
likelihood of getting there is
is uh you know
nearly impossible so having a goal is
like having that target
um or having gps coordinates to a
you know from from where you are to
where you want to be
that's what your goal provides is gives
you the two points the best thing about
the goal too is you're working towards
it and
if you set a timeline and you don't hit
that you can always reformulate what
you're doing in order to still try and
get that you just reformulate your
your steps and keep that goal and i
think that's what we've been doing for
the past few years it's like
you know we we have a vision of where we
want to be
but
in order to get there
it's been a lot of you know this
and
every time that
you know for the past i want to say four
or five years that we felt all right now
we're finally making momentum you know
we hired this person this person's gonna
put us to the next level to where we can
get this accomplished and then what
happens they're gone and
you're back at square one and you gotta
you just gotta pick up the pieces and
say all right well
this is still gonna be my goal but
it's gonna be a different route to get
there at this point
yeah and you can evaluate what went what
went wrong
or what went right and kind of double
down on the things that went right
and you got to look at things from
different perspective too right because
when these things happen it seems like
man you're so devastated this sucked i
spent so much time on this
and then like a couple years down the
road not even that long sometimes it's
like
i'm kind of happy that happened because
it wouldn't have worked out in the long
run anyways so that was probably for the
best
yeah
well and goals are
they're a little bit
you know like i said they're kind of a
target they're they're a little uh how
do i say this
they should be inspiring
almost unachievable sometimes
uh but
when you look back and you say where did
i start at least you moved you know
forward towards that goal
and
um
even if things didn't go right and you
absolutely achieved it you know
kind of evaluating the the
areas like i said that you you had a
really good uh response or a good
um outcome
and then kind of doubling down on that
and failure you know kind of one of the
the biggest pieces of this is don't look
at failure as a bad thing look at that
as a lesson
of what
not to do next time that's easy to say
right
but if you look at people who have done
really great things they felt their way
to success i mean thomas jefferson you
know that story is
is uh probably fresh on i mean most
people know about it but he basically
said i didn't you know he didn't fail 10
000 times when he was uh inventing you
know
the light bulb or whatever
he
found 10 10 000 ways it didn't work and
he found me you know what i mean uh so
he he took the failure as a
lesson on just it that didn't work so
the next thing will something will work
so you got to keep pushing and pushing
and pushing it takes perseverance a lot
of time so and that's probably what
roland
i would think a little bit of insight on
that
as well is that
you know
his goals it takes self-motivation but
it also takes that perseverance it takes
motivate your self-discipline just to
get started
it really takes a lot of
perseverance to keep going when you get
kicked
and
you will get kicked like you just said
you know you had a guy that started and
everything was looking good and you
thought things are going to go
taking this thing to the next level and
next thing you know that guy's gone so
what what can you change next time to
either
not depend on that person for it or
is it
is it a different person you you got a
lot of lessons you can learn from that
and you probably have so
we have and then on the flip side of
kind of like push and pushing
rolling asks if
you feel like we get someone can get to
a point where they're
happy with the place they've gotten to
and feel like they've actually hitting
their ultimate goal already
yeah that's that's a great question
that's probably uh
the million-dollar question is
you know
i think it really depends on your
personality high achievers uh generally
they get somewhere and they're like
i enjoyed the journey there more than i
did getting there than being there and
they create another goal or another you
know they have another thing in their
head that they're going to go after
um
those people
um
you know i i don't know
many
um people that get to
accomplish a big goal in their life
maybe it's to have a hundred thousand
dollars in the bank or something and
then they're like
okay well now i'll quit saving or
something they look at and they're like
i did that and that motivates them to go
ahead and set that next goal
and what
and i just use as an analogy but
um
you know whatever it is a lot of times
once you get there you're going to re
you're going to set another one because
you now know for a fact you can achieve
stuff
especially if you're young and you're
setting goals and you're
you know a teenager and you or you're in
your low 20s and you're setting a goal
and you actually get to that
spot
it's very unlikely you're going to stop
there so i don't know i think that's a
personal
uh person by person thing but
from just
knowing a lot of high achievers i would
tell you that most of the time they get
to that
uh they they reach that goal and they
either already have another one set or
they
they get the confidence especially if
you're new to it i'll tell you that if
you're new to it and you reach that
first goal of whatever that is that
seems big to you at the time and you're
like i did it
why not set another one you know
right and
i think uh
like we've had multiple different goals
on you know different levels we have you
know the business goals and then
industry goals and stuff like that
and it was probably
probably around four years ago or
something like that you know
uh jose and i were talking and it's like
you know the
the ultimate industry goal is to leave
the industry better than
when we came in
and
um i forget who it was but someone asked
me
uh if i felt like i've already achieved
that goal i said i mean if i feel like
the industry still has a lot of work to
do but i still feel like my presence our
presence in the industry has already
left it better than it it was when we
got here
yeah
and that's that's where what's up jose
what's up i was there but
nobody could see or hear me so well now
you're in frame yeah
well i i uh
you know when you're talking about
you know the goal of leaving the
industry better than the way you found
it
if you get real specific on what you're
trying to do
that's when you know you've you've hit
it you know uh
you've already
left the end you know you've already
made a big impact you guys both have
made a big impact on the industry
what i would say is
setting something like
solving this xyz problem whatever maybe
higher installer pay or whatever the
deal is that's just an example but
whatever that is
then you have a real concrete specific
item that you can
know
for a fact like it's almost like an
uh an epiphany
that you've reached it
um
but that's a huge goal though that you
guys said like you're talking about
impacting the entire industry and a lot
of people think our industry's small
it's probably
it's it's the biggest small industry i
know of meaning it's bigger than most
people realize that like 20
something billion dollars of sales in
material goods but then you add labor in
there at about 15 billion
and now overall you're like a you know
35 to 40 billion dollar industry
so
the fact that our industry is still so
small though from a organization
standpoint we we have a lot of access to
people that
you know if you were in aerospace to go
sit down
with uh as a
as a machinist to go sit down with the
president of boeing or something
is
is unlikely
highly unlikely but i've sat down
multiple times and i know you guys have
and i know plenty of other installers
who have sat down with ceos of the
carpet mills that run billion dollar
businesses
so i think we're
as an industry we're a big small
industry
um but your goal to impact it in a
positive way
that's a hell of a goal and i applaud
you guys for for going after that and
and uh you know i share some of and a
lot of those same aspirations is to
um help the industry heal in a lot of
ways and solve a lot of the
communication and
labor issues
those are big big audacious goals to to
solve and takes a lot of perseverance
and you guys are a part of that as as
you know
um
but yeah re reaching for the stars you
may fall short but you know you do get
there
and you do um move forward if you're if
you're consistently trying on a daily
basis and that's where we're at as long
as we're moving forward with it and
we're
not gonna
stop doing what we're doing you know and
uh
who's to say that later on you you know
after we're gone they look back and
they're like they really didn't do that
much but
hey at least we tried right i doubt that
dropping the bucket is still a drop in
the bucket right it's one one drop
closer closer to filling that bucket up
and that's really all that matters and
sorry i came in late guys i really was
there i just couldn't didn't have any
like
options to uh to to speak where i was at
i was having uh
i think i just joined a little bit later
than uh than i needed to but i'm sorry
to backtrack too as i want to go back on
um
a couple of things like the goals and
all that like uh
i just had a conversation with my nephew
uh last week or the week before
about goal he's like yeah i'm setting up
goals and so i
i broke it down a little bit different
for him i said how about instead of
setting up goals you just create
milestones
he's like why i said because if you
don't achieve your goal then you're
going to be like oh i failed
i failed and i'm like you shouldn't view
it like that right because some people
are a little bit different if they set
milestones and on the way to that
milestone
they get sidetracked or have to make a
lateral movement they didn't
fail at their goal their milestone just
changed right i mean either changed in
length of time or changed as a the
description change and they'll get back
to it or they can hit a milestone and
then split two different directions so
that that's my little two cents on that
yeah i don't think there's a right or
wrong way to look at it i would say that
you know
you got to be cautious and self-aware
enough to make sure you're not
shortchanging yourself in those
instances where you don't reach a goal
and then
you
uh or you don't
you get you get to a certain milestone
and then you you uh
take a different path as long as you're
not taking the easier path because it's
easier
but you're taking the other path because
it's more effective in getting to your
goal there's an easy path
sometimes or at least it seems easy yeah
yeah you know how that goes
or too good to be true that's because it
really is too good to be true
yeah i thought i had a rich uncle in
freaking scotland that
14 million dollars was supposed to give
me at least like a facts last week right
that the email that
that they they found uh 14 million
dollars in
in a government account that has your
name on it yeah they need your bank
account
your bank account information and
they'll they'll they'll forward that
straight to you
signature on a bank account everlasting
installations is on here he says that
whenever he clears uh
every time he clears a goal off the
vision board
that's his motivation to set that next
goal like we were talking about earlier
all right i hit this
now it's it's time to to get this next
one and
i can i can see that right
because
that's that self motivation
yeah and vision boards are cool because
you take the time to do one
um
they they keep that
you know especially with men i'm i'm not
trying to separate us but men are just
very uh visual creatures
and uh it works for women too don't get
me wrong um but it's just like as a guy
you're very visual um
stimulus right i mean we we're we're the
main buyers of exotic cars for a reason
we're main buyers of you know
uh these these um
you know lamborghinis and ferraris and
stuff because
visually we're we're uh motivated by
that kind of thing so vision board is
cool because it keeps it right out in
front of you it's cool to hear someone's
keeping a vision board yeah crystal
actually has us all putting our own
personal
vision boards together and we're putting
them on a
a bigger board out in the warehouse
because she wants these guys to realize
that
you should set some goals you should
have some motivation in what you do
somewhere
and uh i think she's getting a little
bit of pushback right now
well that's cool that's leadership right
there
yeah she's a great leader man and you
know what and i i missed uh i missed the
memo on getting that done but i she gave
me everything this morning to get going
someone was on vacation
how dare you i know
i got to pay more i got to be better
than that
well
that's pretty cool you guys are doing
that and combining them
um
as a team it sounds like you're she's
encouraging everybody at your company to
do that huh
yeah everyone she wants everyone to do
it so that way we can actually
point out how
i like some of our our goals and
just our hobbies just like in general
it's just it's gonna bring it all
together it's gonna be a good team
building
uh thing as well as like helping others
you know achieve their goals so
um yeah
it was there that's that's a good idea i
might have to steal that
take some pictures and say trademarked
already sorry
[Laughter]
yeah just um
i guess in in closing here for me anyway
uh i just want people to realize that
failure is not failure really it's just
a lesson
there's a lot of these times when we we
feel like a failure
um
just gotta check yourself today's been a
really rough day for me actually um
in a lot of ways it was um you know
we've
we got
a big kick in the old keister
with
you know a couple of our
long-term guys one of them retiring one
of them moving on to another company a
total different industry in fact
which were kind of sad to lose him from
the industry let alone our company but
uh with all that
we have
you know
a lot of pressure then
stacked upon the the remaining people
keeping a positive outlook even when
things don't work out or when something
falls back um i'm working on a big deal
you guys know about that we're having
some complications with and it's just
this little piece
that's keeping the the whole train from
moving and
you know
the goal is clear
and we just kind of
keep getting notched down
i'm not going to
give up you know we're going to
persevere we'll get through it and and
get the problem solved but um i think
it's i think it's got a lot to do with
uh staying with something even when you
get
it it may seem like a failure but it's
just a
short setback you know
if you're taking two or three steps up
and you take one back down you're still
two steps ahead right so just keep going
just keep pushing
so
don't look at failure as like this
ending thing it's it's a lesson hey
failure is the foundation of success
so it's the um the only way
that you can actually put it all
together and make sense of the finished
product
um i'd really
hate
for me to
experience success without failing
because then
the steps in the effort to get there is
unknown like i'm just there how
if something goes wrong i won't know how
to fix it
yeah i've heard it said that
like you know
um
failure is
like
a setback is only should only be
considered a failure
or is only considered a failure when you
accept it as one so if you feel like
it's a failure that's when it's failure
it's not that the item or the event
itself's a failure you're giving it that
label
it's just a setback just something you
gotta overcome so
if you just keep that positive mindset
going
and this might sound a little foo-foo
but this is true you just got to keep
going sometimes and
not accept it as a failure accept it as
a lesson and keep driving forward um
and that's even in like your kids
sporting events you know
your son
throws a
a game that he wasn't super proud of
well there's some lessons in there it he
shouldn't come off the mound feeling
like a complete failure there's just
some lessons there that he can learn
um and and get better or one of our
we we just adopted three kids and one of
them's playing football and he didn't
get the position he wanted you know on
the team
uh he wanted to be one of the skilled
positions you know running back and wide
receiver or something and he's a
he's in line he's a defensive end and a
offensive end you know
and um
that's not a failure he he's he's he's
on the team first off
secondly
uh he's going to get better
just playing that position
understanding plays and understanding
routes and understanding uh you know
blocking first quarterback for example
and and which way to do that you'll get
a better understanding of the game and
he's you know seventh grade so he's got
plenty of time to grow into his body
there's a lot of kids out there that
don't even start playing football until
seventh grade
or even high school yeah
but cool story you know you were talking
about being on the mound and you know
having that tough game it was we
actually went and watched the
shohei ohtani pitch when he came to
to detroit it was it was one of those
things i told my wife i was like if he
come if he's pitching on one of these
days we're going
and she texted me the game was on sunday
she texted me saturday at like 1pm she
was like he's pitching tomorrow
the next text after that was i got the
tickets
[Laughter]
yeah that's good and then and then when
we got there uh
he did not have a great game you know
you when we went in there i fully
thought we were going to lose and he was
going to just demolish us
and it
you know tanya and i talked and it's
like that's probably the best thing that
could have happened because now
you know the kids can see that you can
be one of the best people in the world
and still have an off day but you know
what he's gonna do he's gonna shake that
off and he's gonna go get that next one
and that's how you either kind of look
at things
they say short memory in sports i think
that's the same thing when you're
setting goals like learn from your
lesson and move on like don't let it
drag you down don't let that
that
that setback drag you down into failure
you know get your motivation
sock sulk for a second or so but get
back on the horse you know
right and i'm i'm sure he's gonna be you
know talking to his coaches and
everything about it don't feel like you
can't reach out to someone to
to help you out with something that
you're struggling in like
if you need to talk to someone
talk to someone
yeah
i did find it very uh helpful one time
um i hired a business coach to help me
through some of that before
um you know sometimes you just got to
reach out and have somebody guide you uh
especially if you're an entrepreneur and
you're on your own and you you may feel
like you don't have a lot of people to
go to
um
it's always there to there's plenty of
business coaches there's
there's
there's undoubtedly
uh dozens in any given city so
you can always find them but the point
is is that you know
sometimes you need a little bit of help
and it's okay to ask for it but
that too goes back to roland
uh comment and that takes
self-discipline and motivation
inner motivation to just make that
that step so yeah i think it all boils
down to you know
keeping keeping your goals in sight
keep moving forward and uh have that
discipline to uh to do so
yeah
no no no no you're my friend told me
once uh playing ball obviously we
compare a lot of things sports
i hit the ball and
i got a double right but before i got
the two i probably could have went to
three but before i got there you hear
him he says
know your body just
know your body right
so
that i stopped that too because so he
said that he's like oh man my head said
you know what
if i do go for it chances are i'm gonna
have to slide i'm not built for that
kind of
you know your body you tried
you know who was there was known
it was no he was he was trying to push
you to go to three though no no he's
trying to tell me the nice way to stand
dude
uh know your body i'll never forget it
but you know that that kind of a relate
that resonated with me through more than
just
that moment and that that
that situation it's uh you know
it's a metaphor for know yourself right
like if you like back to rollins comment
like uh when is enough enough when you
when you stay stop is um
when you start losing the passion for
the things that you're doing
know yourself man know your body know
that
going through the motions isn't going to
get you where you want to go um being
passionate about it and finding
passionate people to surround yourself
with will help motivate you to move on
to those next steps
um
know your body
i'll never forget that's kind of like
well hort hedges said right here we got
a comment on linkedin he said uh not to
stay stagnant doing the same thing play
with the new products learn new things
you know that can be motivation to keep
you moving forward but without you know
doing the research and motivating
yourself to to try those new things
you're just going to stay in the same
spot so
surround yourself with the people that
are trying to build themselves up just
like you are
and trying to learn those new things and
it'll help
help you self-motivate to push yourself
even further and i think that that's uh
those are some good words right there
yeah that incumbent right
yeah i mean that's why we're talking to
you right now
we all have goals and
i mean we we went over there to to your
spot to
ask you questions i mean you you've been
through a lot of the same stuff that
we're going through now and we
appreciate everything that you you
said to us so far and you're very modest
everyone who's listening the gentleman
right here is very modest he's also very
passionate about the industry and he is
leaving a mark as well
so it's just
you know we're just all making our own
little marks on different sides of of
the country right now your mark is a lot
bigger than ours just to let you know we
appreciate any help and everything that
you're you're doing well
i think we we um you know we're aligned
in our in our
passion for for a lot of these things
and
and uh
i look at it like
they're you know you're not always
um
how do i say this i i'm not always
looking for
uh somebody that's bigger than me to to
motivate me or whatever i find
motivation in your guys's and what i
admire
uh is your guys's dedication to growth
your dedication and i'm talking personal
growth and getting better
all those things
are what continue to push you forward
i would say
at the end of all of this if if anybody
gets anything out of it is you know
set your goals
the motivation side of it it does take
some personal motivation or some you
know self-discipline
but the other thing is
you know make sure you're pushing
yourself sometimes you can get in these
zones where you're doing things but
you're not really pushing yourself and
you'll you'll see it at the end of a a
period
and i'm noticing it now because i
haven't really been pushing myself on on
goals uh where
uh you and you know the business kind of
uh
you know saying that is if you're not
growing you're dying
and there's a lot of truth to that in
business
uh and personally because you
even in my marriage i've been married
for 27 years uh you know there's times
where
you're just kind of coasting along and
it gets
that's where you lose passion that's
when the passion gets lost is when that
you just kind of coast along so you got
to be cognizant of that i'm i've got to
be cognizant of that in my in my
personal life say my marriage or or my
business is
try to continue to push the envelope
um and have that as your gauge and it is
each each person's a little bit
different have their own um
you know no know your body type deal
that's true i mean
like it would be
a bit ridiculous for me to think like
i'm gonna go build a rocket now elon did
it
can i do it
so
the the most motivational people in the
world will tell you oh yes you can
well i'm not saying i couldn't
eventually but i'm telling you am i
first check myself am i passionate that
to me is knowing your body am i
passionate about that
you know you may
you may be a great hitter and not a
great runner know your body right you
take your take your wins where they
where you get them uh that match your
talents
um
so
i think the vision boards are another
good thing that came out of this uh it's
cool you guys are doing that by the way
that's awesome that's all that's all
baby sister credit goes to the baby
baby sister brought some cool stuff
because she that that's all that's the
ultimate machine she completed hers
before she even told anyone what was
going on she was like
boom here's mine this is what you guys
are doing this is your homework
she led by example
yep
that's awesome
all right guys well we have come to the
end of our time here i want to thank
both of you for joining me i know this
isn't like super flooring specific but i
don't think that it any of us believe
that this would always be oh what glue
are you using what trial size like these
are these are things that
that will help you to think
uh a little bit bigger
a little longer term and uh then
those trial size things kind of end up
on your to-do list
right unless you guys wanna do one one
one of these episodes where that's all
we do is give you one little
schooling section on how to do this you
know one foot of flash cove yeah
yeah those are um
you know this whole time we've spent
together on on a weekly basis
i value because it kind of it kind of
re-motivates me in a lot of ways
uh reminds me of things that are
uh important and kind of refocuses it
you know like when your camera is too
close to something and it starts to
focus and it it finally focuses it's
that kind of a thing for me so
i really appreciate you guys joining
every week and
you you guys are awesome and i i really
appreciate that that
your sister is um
doing that that's cool that she's
pushing other people to kind of chase
their dreams and giving them the
sometimes you're giving someone else the
power to chase their dreams and that's
what she's doing that's cool he's trying
to re to have people realize that they
do have a dream
that's you know
whether it's you know doing flooring or
not i mean you you got to have something
that you're looking forward to
let's focus on that and that can be your
motivation on why you're here and doing
this i mean everyone's got hobbies right
yeah so take your take your passion from
there and kind of translate it over here
too because this is what's supporting
that hobby anyways you don't want
everyone anyone to feel stuck
yeah
yep
all right gentlemen well thanks again
we'll be talking to you soon and
uh everybody else we will see you
uh next week
uh please join us and if you have any
comments feel free to to open up the
chat didn't have time to even look at if
uh there was any chats i don't believe i
know i we usually do it every excuse me
we usually do everything at the end but
i was kind of just throwing everything
in there as it was as it was coming too
yeah that was good though
awesome all right fellas we'll have a
good week and we will chat with you
later all right see you hi everybody
The Huddle - Episode 13 - Leveling Up; Taking Your Business to the Next Level
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose discuss how and when to realize it's time to take your business to the next level in order to properly grow and create success.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up guys welcome to the huddle we
come with you every week to discuss
maintaining forward progress in your
flooring career
join me
today as usual is daniel and jose
jose is on the road so you get
maybe some some window shots of the
beautiful michigan countryside it looks
like
and we got daniel at the home office up
there in michigan what's going on fellas
how's it going brother
well um
this week we um are going to discuss
the same topic as we were going to have
last week and unfortunately
got pulled in multiple different
directions and we were not able to um
uh be on the podcast last week and and
um we apologize for that but at the end
of the day you guys if you're in this
audience know that uh sometimes things
come up in the flooring business and you
got to take care of that so
we definitely tried to get on but we
were on a job site uh going through some
training with the guys and some
equipment and
it just wasn't in the stars me and just
it just couldn't couldn't make
everything work
yeah
i was on a job site as well in beautiful
colorado springs and i simply could not
pull away i was actually installing a
little bit of bowl on last week
with some cushion quiet cushion
underlayment and uh
my knees and knuckles hurt for a few
days uh back to normal now though
uh normally
yeah normal-ish i gotta check myself i
get out on job sites and sometimes i
just can't stand still and we have a
room that needed done and i was like i
can do that room so i put my skills back
to test
um
it was fun i got i got it done it looks
good but uh not without its challenges
so
this week we're going to talk about
leveling up your business and flooring
now i'm going to touch on in employees
and we can kind of talk about that a
little bit
but really this is uh geared to
uh the end of the independent installer
who may work directly with homeowners
may work through a flooring company
through a dealer
or you could be a full-service flooring
provider yourself and be the store
either way just kind of want to discuss
some of these steps i've been through
many of them
uh in fact all of those
um so i know daniel and jose both
started as installers as well so
uh guys you want to just give like the
10 second version of uh well maybe a
little more than 10 seconds but yeah go
ahead daniel short version of
starting flooring to where you're at now
and i know we've talked about it in the
past but
yeah so
i started a long time ago when i was 12
years old and i'm 35 now so
been in it for a minute um
and
for for a long time it was just you know
a job and then
it wasn't until uh
you know he approached me and was like
hey i kind of want to do our own thing
when we were working for a company it
was like all right and then
since then
uh
was still almost treating it like a job
and then something had to click to where
it's like man something's got to change
or else we're going to keep on doing the
same things over and over again
so you know you we worked for a long
time just me and him and then finally
got to a point to where uh we started
hiring some people and
uh
like we were talking about before we got
on here we hired too many people at one
point and
that that's where i kind of want to say
you know sometimes leveling up is is
scaling back because we we did we
essentially cut the workforce in half to
be able to have those profit margins
where they need to be
in order to sustain everything
and we were just running into a bunch of
punch lists and and everything and
that's kind of uh
a little bit after that is kind of when
i started looking at things like
what kind of training can
be provided or can we provide to so that
way people can
get to these steps faster um because
it was uh
actually a meeting with someone that we
did a lot of work for
they said
you only have so many miles on your
knees and i never really looked at it
that way before
and now that i'm you know 20 something
years into the game
my hips and my knees have have
taken a beating so you kind of got to
look at the
the long-term picture of things like no
one
is going to want to be on their knees
forever so what are the steps that
you're going to take in order to
progress to that next level and for us
that was uh
getting into sales
um here at preferred flooring
and that only this is like year number
four i think so we've been pretty pretty
slow going for a few years and
it's finally starting to pick up
um
we we both say that we're not salesmen
you probably say the same thing about
yourself but anyone who owns a business
is a salesman every single day
i've embraced it the last few years i i
used to be like i'm no salesman you know
like that was a scummy side i think it's
because if you get around enough
installers talking about salesmen
they're gonna they're gonna have a bad
uh taste in their mouth a bit but
you're right i mean you're if you're in
if you own your own company you're a
salesman you're a salesman of yourself
of your service of your employees
i mean it's even if you're not selling a
piece of flooring at that moment you're
selling your your reputation and your
your ability killing yourself right it's
yeah
it's uh
we and we relate a lot to sports teams
and that's what they say in sports teams
you know you're not just representing
yourself anymore you're representing
your organization and you have to kind
of play the part anytime you're in the
eye of anyone really so
um
being professional dressing the part
knowing what you can say to some people
and what you can't say to other people
that's huge and
anyone's growth
definitely takes practice i can tell you
that
yeah i mean so you guys daniel when you
started were you an employee
early on yep
and then you you guys transitioned to
sub and then full service it sounds like
sales of warranty
i think
the other way around we started out as
uh 1099 and then we transitioned to
employees well still it was still
employed 1099 employed right yeah yeah
you guys got caught up in that mix a bit
i remember you saying previously yeah
we did we
took our lumps
yeah
i i
i have a similar
uh background i i started when i was 19
right out of right back when i got back
from the army and then um
in school by the hour i was a helper i
went through all the hazing and
everything that's
you know kind of prominent and flooring
for some reason
you know not like military hazing but
you know go get me the tile stretcher
kind of thing
and
um
a few years later i started sub
contracting and and doing some sub work
um on the side
uh got my insurance and things and then
about three or four years later
after
starting um me and another guy went and
started our own flooring company and we
took a bunch of lumps um so i just
the purpose of this is we both have a
lot of experience running through the
the cycles so i thought we'd maybe try
to save somebody who's gonna
who has aspirations of doing something
similar some of the pain
so to start with you got employees
uh and unemployed if you're an employee
you can always
you know
always increasing your skill whether
your company provides that training or
not look around
find the trainings
you can go to go carrera's website and
find trainings in your you know all the
trainings for any of the disciplines
but
um
you know invest in yourself we say that
a lot because we believe in it i think
all three of us believe in that greatly
so
you you can you can be an employee and
move into say a crew leader or a
installation manager or maybe even be a
trainer for your for your company
what we're really talking about leveling
up is your business so this is really
geared towards the business owner
and if you're an installer
and you're you're 1099
or you're working direct with the
builder or something you're a company
and uh you got to treat yourself as such
so
some of the pitfalls and i'll have you
guys chime in as well here but i got it
written up on my board so i'ma look up
here a few times but
uh as a sub
you maybe
start with smaller projects and want to
move to bigger projects or a bigger crew
and managing uh there's a lot of uh
installers who have started very large
in installation houses
any of those are
ways that you can level up but i would
throw a couple of cautionary points in a
bigger projects do not mean bigger
profits
and
b
bigger crews do not equal bigger profits
now sometimes
and i i'd love your guys's opinion on
this but
sometimes you have to lose profit to get
off your knees when i first started
hiring people we did our profits
definitely hurt but it was the only way
for me to start to get off of my knees
and start to get it still took three to
f
took four or five years for that to
happen
um so what i mean what's your guys
i think that's what we kind of touched
on that right the whole uh the 70 thing
when uh
you're never gonna find anyone to
replace yourself right so you have to
find someone that can do it at least 70
percent of what you do
yeah you know that 70 and then you find
another person so now you're actually at
140
but
you know that's the only way you're
gonna be able to to
level up so to speak right that's what
we're talking about and uh yeah
and you do you see a hit on the profits
and
you know how long that lasts is
ultimately how much work you're you're
going to put in right
um
so what was the uh so it was uh sorry
about that bump there guys but
they a few years ago we got involved
with our local chamber and the gentleman
said it best
um and it mixes in with a lot of other
conversations where
at some point you got to stop working in
your business and start working on your
business right because as long as you're
working in your business you own a job
you don't have a career
so that's uh that right there kind of
resonated hit home
well you may have a career but you're
you're not a business owner you you own
your job you don't own a business at
that point you own your job you own your
business right you're right about the
career yeah but yeah you own a job not a
business and that was like
man i just never really thought about it
like that and why haven't i why hasn't
that crossed my mind
yeah and and sometimes um when you're
talking about bigger projects
uh
or bigger crews
i shouldn't say sometimes this always
really boils down to hiring
and
having good hiring practices
a lot of times when you're hiring new
employees to maybe do some of the stuff
that you did you're looking for them to
do exactly
the way you did it
so a good training process uh you spoke
of that earlier daniel you know what can
you provide in training that can get
somebody up to speed i love your guys's
take i hadn't thought about that about
you know someone's 100 percentage or 70
that seems pretty true because at the
end of the day
um i'll give you an example we have a
guy that's worked for us for 15 years
um
as a project manager who has moved on
and
he was bought in as j as much as anybody
could be to a company but
you know now that he's
elsewhere like
he he doesn't have the stress and
everything that goes along with it like
you can always find another job so
employees always have a way out if you
are a business owner a lot of times
you've kind of pushed all your chips
into the middle and playing all your
cards and so you don't have the
opportunity to just quit
you're you have to keep having that
persistence and driving forward so
before you go start your company i would
say the number one trait you need to
make sure you have
is persistence and a high level of
uh
tolerance to stress from financial
situations it's gonna happen and so you
might as well be prepared for it that's
one thing that i i know that i was not
prepared for whatsoever was
uh
not being paid or or not or and we've
had other podcasts about how to get paid
and we we've given in my opinion really
good advice there but
it's still part of my past and still
part of that financial stress was just
not getting paid and i don't know do you
guys have
any comments on that it it's it's a
piece of
prepared for because what what people
think is that the the money just
just keeps on piling up right but you're
doing this the entire time yeah it's
like when it when it starts getting down
there you're like man what is what is
going on here
yeah
daniel daniel um has approached me
numerous times to where we've had to
adjust our personal pay right like like
we we're at a salary um and we're very
modest salary right because
we don't need anything more than what we
have and uh
he's like hey dude
in order for us to get here in the next
six months we're gonna have to cut our
own pay so that way we can afford this
equipment so that way we can afford this
van or these tools or so we can afford
to do this for the cruise and you know
it it sucks
it sucks
nice you better be willing to sacrifice
itself sacrifice 100 man
um you know when when we decided to do
our first level up and start preferred
flooring
man we barely had food or money for food
for the house we barely had gas money
for the jobs but we
we didn't we had enough to pay our rent
we had enough to pay our utilities and
we also had a great support group and a
phone like hey hey sis what are you guys
doing oh what are you cooking today you
know some people over there and we go
over there and have dinner or they'd
come over and cook for us or something
like they
they seen what we were trying to do
before we knew what we were trying to do
but that was our first steps of leveling
up and the first experience of sacrifice
you find out what you
don't need
um
to move forward well that brings up
another i mean
if you were to redo it or
i was to redo it i would be
looking at do i have the cash
or the access to capital to where
i can cover my bills and and still have
the access to to grow the company
um you know i start when i started i
started with a a salary and i stuck with
that 600 a week salary for five years
before i ever gave myself a raise
and the purpose of that was to build up
as much cash as possible
and
then be able to go to the bank and get a
line of credit
that didn't work
no it didn't work for us either i had
some cash i thought we were ready
we had gotten some bigger projects that
we needed capital to to roll with and we
ended up factoring our invoices
i mean we um
i i didn't have another way to get
capital
we uh we had to give we had to show two
years of history before we could even
apply for our first credit card but i
think daniel
i think we did we did get a break from
one of the local uh financial
establishments close to the two-year
mark because we were not sitting in a
good spot right like we needed to buy
equipment we needed to buy stuff and uh
same thing that salary but what daniel
doesn't tell you is that
our first
year our first
full year of uh preferred flooring is i
think we both had less than seven days
off of work that year
um and some of it daniel's days off were
because he had his first his first kid
his oldest
and
they do took like two days off maybe two
days off and came right back to work
but
again sacrifice
huge man
yeah and i have
when you're gonna do
what you guys did which is go to full
service and start selling the materials
and the labor and providing the whole
experience for
your client when you start doing that it
becomes
overhead heavy
uh reliance on software and technology
and equipment
which all cost money
and
i think that even if you embrace those
things which we do and you got i know
you guys do you buy equipment you are
technology
uh forward and software forward so
you guys have that dna but it costs a
lot of money to do all that um so you
have overhead now you have a building
and you got light bills and utility
bills and a building to pay for so when
you have all that
before you take that step anybody in the
audience you got to think about this and
i know it seems elementary but it's it
it's
it's really um mind-blowing how often
people don't forecast
out
at least one year and make sure that
you're making a good decision from the
long term um i did not
i jumped in i thought i'll i'll just
figure it out that's just kind of my
personality and um
i did but not without the sacrifice
and the headaches that went along with
it
yeah i think uh
so so uh
you know
if you haven't noticed like i i'm the
visionary portion of the daniel uh and
jose team right like
i always see all the positives that
could happen right i don't necessarily
take into consideration
um
the the financial implications sometimes
that could happen but that's where
daniel comes in daniel's a real black
and white real
by the book you know he's going to read
some numbers and crunch remember it's
going to make sense uh a lot of what
we've built
has been on
chance which sucks to say but i
there are some things that you cannot do
if if you don't start to level up and
see that
if you don't have certain
amount of vehicles a certain type of
vehicle certain equipment
if you don't invest in the right things
then you cannot be prepared for that
next level um you're not doing
yourselves any favors but
you don't want to jump to the next four
you're you're not this that's too much
that's the key like i mean you you can't
you can't do it without risk um right
and and
you know if you're there enough you're
gonna get lucky or at least it's gonna
seem like it's lucky to other people but
really it's just where your hard work
meets opportunity seems like luck
but it's not luck it's the fact that
you've been working
long enough that then when the
opportunity comes you meet them right at
the right spot and that's more synergy
in my opinion than luck it appears like
luck because all of a sudden you're
getting good work and you're starting
things are starting to roll
um that happened year seven
eight for us where it really started our
machine started clicking and then we
have improved over the years from that
but
um
you know i i think that
the risk
that you are going to take uh when you
provide materials and labor so when
you're full service
it seems like a rosy
you know garden but in reality there's a
lot of thorns in there and you just have
to be aware of it i'm not discouraging
anybody from doing it by all means if
you understand it jump in uh you can
build a good business in florian by
doing so but you just gotta know that
there's gonna be some hard knocks and
you know i mean at the end of the day
you got two companies sitting here
telling you that
our processes weren't perfect early on
and some of the stuff that you can do
to take away at least some of the lumps
you won't
there's no perfect solution here but is
to be prepared i mean having access to
capital having either cash or access to
capital um
is key when you start doing work with
uh say general contractors or
uh you know property managers where it's
going to take you 60 days to get paid i
mean you still got to pay your bills uh
your vendors still want paid in 30 days
if i'm
i'm guessing
you know
everybody does and the installers too
it's like a
as hard it's hard to leave people
hanging when you know you've been in
that position before and
yeah labor pace
in a lot of places and we just know too
many other you know
guys out there that will
have people come work for him and then
just not pay him and we we made it a
point to not be like
that too that's like yeah the industry
needs to get rid of those guys yeah like
somehow
uh i they're such a low barrier of entry
to be a flooring contractor or flooring
company
um
somehow the the
the people who
do not honor the guys that are actually
doing the work
that's gotta that's gotta quit i know as
go carrera going around talking to a
bunch of other flooring companies uh
we've we've gotten this
uh
feeling that you know some of them
almost believe they own their subs and
or
their even their employees they don't
treat that well i i really
uh believe that the people who treat
their subs and their installers uh
in-house installers or employee
installers
correctly in this you know looming
downturn maybe it won't come i don't
know but uh it appears that it's gonna
come
those are the companies that are gonna
continue to do well even through the the
downturn in 2008 that
cycle we grew
the next two years 20
the first year 30 the next year so
that was i felt a testament that we
didn't lose any of our talent uh we were
able to get the work and we had built a
reputation to be able to perform by that
time and so
we were selected a lot of times when
other companies were really faltering at
that point so
you know preparing yourself right and
having a good reputation like you guys
do
but that really boils down to
in my opinion kind of
setting yourself up for success so what
are your guys's key points if somebody's
wanting to
do what you guys have done what are the
key points of setting yourself up for
success start building your credit score
early on
because yeah it matters um
and might i add uh watch your company
credit scores uh that's what i was going
to say too you know the
d and b number and make sure you're
getting all this stuff set up so that
way by the time you actually need
something you have history in there
already even if you haven't gotten loans
and stuff through the business but at
least you're in the system and they can
look you up and be like oh they've been
in business for you know three years
already
yeah and it makes me way easier and if
nestle leaders uh that's a great point
daniel if if you have vendors get them
to report
your your good pay
early on and
hopefully by the time you get to the
point where you need capital you've
built up a good credit reputation
so
it was it was amazing about the the
credit score thing like we figured after
x amount of years we could use the
business but the business had no credit
so they had to go off of our personal
you know because uh we were owners so
they used the personal until
the business started rolling in their
own its own credit and and now
that's another different
difference another great point be
prepared to personally guarantee a lot
of stuff which means you're putting your
own personal assets like your home and
things like that at risk
a lot of times when you sign early on to
credits
lines of credit with your vendors
um or a bank they want certainly your
bank's going to want a personal
guarantee anyway
but
vendors sometimes do we had contractors
that made me sign personal guarantees
early on uh to personally guarantee
their project would be
completed and that you know my personal
assets would be at risk
um in completing that project
so yeah that's another you guys coming
up with some good stuff yeah nobody
nobody looks at it like that but those
are the the behind the scenes
uh sacrifices that have to be made
um you know and
you when when your brother puts
something on the line that's his that
will affect his family oh yeah you're
you're not putting yourself in a
position to fail you're going to do
anything you can to make sure that
you are successful to make sure that
that debt is paid and satisfied and
it's a rough it's a rough reality but it
is a reality until you have that uh that
cash flow to to do as as you wish if you
could do everything out of pocket and
more power to you but starting out
um
starting out with nothing and no
investors and all by yourself yeah
you're definitely uh
gonna
most of us don't start out with a pile
of cash
or a bunch of investors in flooring
i mean you know we're we're
usually installers taking over a boss's
business or we're going out and starting
our own that's that's most of the
the
you know generation
you know or your generational i should
say um meaning you're taking over your
dad's company or something like that but
yeah that's some good point so we have
credit score which i didn't bring up
which is obviously very important you
got the fact that
you're personally guaranteeing uh a lot
of the work and your credit lines
what else do you guys got
taxes
yeah
don't don't slip on your taxes we talk
about that every single episode i think
yes well it's because it's i would
almost
bet that that's i mean if i if we were
placing bets i think we'd all three bet
that one of the biggest plagues for
your average
installer the guy that subcontracts out
of shops
their biggest dependent their one of
their biggest shortfalls is paying their
taxes on time
you know well
we'll add this to the to the
conversation is uh man we didn't start
out this way right away but
you know we started as a dba but if at
all possible and you're just starting
out you're whatever three days six
months a year in or you're still a dba
after six years
do yourself a favor and at least go
become an llc to
to do that there you know it seems like
a little bit of a headache but man the
re
the reward
of doing that and classifying yourself
differently will will pay for itself man
it's just just don't don't wait too long
to do that do that earlier um and sooner
than later for sure well and to build on
that just a little bit um
you know
you're in a in effect personally
guaranteeing everything when you're a
dba anyway
so yeah you want to give yourself some
level of a corporate veil to protect
your com protect your personal assets
from your company's activities
um
so
i believe greatly in
starting a company starting a s corp uh
the most
common is an s corp or an llc get with
your tax
attorney and your attorney i'm not a
professional attorney so i don't want to
give you advice there but those are the
two most common entities and
uh
there there's a lot of tax advantages to
that as well as the protection it
provides but even after that say you
started a corporation an s corp and
you're a business
a lot of times that's they still want
you to you know your your credit
providers still want you to personally
guarantee because your corporation
doesn't have the back yet
to
to to back all that that capital so
you just got to be prepared for that or
have investors or have some money uh set
aside to be able to cash flow for a
while until you build up your credit but
those are some pitfalls
and then one thing too is um
the your your history right so you can
put out your your charts for the
previous year so that way
people can see your growth and they can
see your your ups and your downs daniel
started doing that a while ago and
um you know i didn't understand what he
was doing until people started asking
for it
uh you know we need to have two years of
history show us where you're at where
your growth was and it's nice to see um
in a snapshot your ups and your downs
and see
you can create your own rhythms there
you'll know when you're slow you'll know
when you're busy you'll know how to
prepare for
uh the next year you're creating uh you
know when you have to when you have to
make your money and save it because that
dip is coming and it's
yeah i want to say it's almost like
clockwork but you know they surprise you
sometimes
yeah and that's a piece where
again
it goes into having the software or
some technology to help you out there um
a lot of accounting software's can do
that month by month graphing ours does
which will show you your
revenues versus cost over month over
month and compare years and all that
stuff uh but you got to be prepared for
that what i would say is don't wait
until your year five or six like i did
to start
keeping track
stuff in line
i
it would have helped the pun i i i
didn't have anything like this when i
first started i wish i did
uh but
that's why we're here is try to help
somebody uh if it helps one person avoid
a few of the problems and become more
successful we've accomplished our goal
right yeah software is huge you you
don't really think about it because you
think i'm just gonna
collect the
shoe box or receipts but that gives you
no information on how you're actually
doing
yeah it doesn't track any spending any
labor any material
uh you know
there's there's a lot of different
things you'll get the more deeper you go
the more information you'll gather and
it gets easier and easier i'm not the
technology guy that's daniel but
daniel pretty much locked me in a room
with a computer and said learn and yeah
i didn't have a choice
well i mean one
pretty simple way is keeping track of
your monthly sales and expenses if you
keep track of those putting them in a
excel spreadsheet and you can run some
pretty simple formulas to
to
even be able to look at it like that
that's really low level easy
uh way to do it but if if you start
there that's still better than doing
nothing we didn't know if we frankly we
didn't know until the end of the year if
we were making money or not
for a long time and and had no idea if
we would make money in a given year um
that's
complicated as it is but if you're not
tracking anything
it becomes even more you know
complicated and there's just no way for
you to know so tracking your your
revenue and expenses and having a a
percentage there that you're comfortable
with and that changes by company and by
by your cost of your building and
everything else
but yeah it's it's one of those things
that i uh i certainly did not do
would have helped a lot
and and a lot of guys you know that that
i talk to they say you know i need to
learn how to use it and then they just
never do and the biggest thing with
everything that we're talking about
right now with the software and you know
um the equipment and everything it's you
got to stop telling yourself that you
can't afford to do it right i'm too busy
to do this i'm too busy to do that and
it's i can't afford not to do it because
if i don't start doing this stuff
if you don't start doing this stuff
you're just going to stay where you're
at the entire time there's
you know there's no paper trail to keep
track of everything that's coming in and
going out so
real like you said you know at the end
of the year you're like i wonder what i
made now
this is my technology ability here look
a couple weeks ago i didn't even know
how to do that you got it in space
well to
polish it off i would um
i would say that
take as
much effort and concern
that you
probably have with creating your logo
and place some of that
effort
and concern into setting your business
up correctly
um and giving yourself the best shot
talk to some people call any of us
send us an email
um
if you have questions on that stuff that
we can help out with but hiring
practices it's important to have a good
interview process and make sure you're
hiring good people that match your
company's core values
then
you know even then like you guys said
you might only get 70 of yourself but
the point is is are you trying to grow a
company
and some people want to own their jobs
and there's nothing wrong with that you
can make a hell of a good living doing
that
but just what are your goals identify
that first when we talk about leveling
up
and then
maybe take some of the advice that
you've heard on this uh podcast here at
the huddle and
apply some of it
plywood is applicable to your goals
but
i i think the two pieces you can't get
away from is the credit score and the
personal guarantee i think those two you
guys brought up is
super
uh important for everybody to be aware
of
that and uh the way that they do
commercial loans is way different than
the way that they do uh the loans that
you've been used to so if you haven't
gone through that process yet just know
that uh
the payback is not over years sometimes
they want that money back as soon as
they can get it
yeah you're not getting a 30-year loan
on your your money
like you would on the house
now they want their money
well gentlemen thanks again for joining
this week uh i
a lot of good stuff came up i wasn't
even anticipating so thanks for your
input i hope it helped anybody do we
have any questions that have come across
um before we shut this down let me
look here so i do know that danny
sherman is saying hi dirk o'brien is
saying hi
what's up fellas uh aaron
is one of my brother's friends saying
that he's a good looking man so
is that what you will
jorge
from san antonio is saying hi and
that credit scores are very important
um
randall
meyering is actually uh one of the
construction companies that we work for
over here it's a great guy
he says he's loving the podcast and as a
construction manager he loves hearing
you know the business discussion on how
other people are kind of going through
the same same things that he
it's not just specific to the flooring
industry right this is business so it's
it's kind of all over the board
yeah it's a big veil it covers a lot of
business
with a tweak towards flooring but for
sure
and uh jorge did say that there's apps
for independent installers like pro
books so that's something that you can
uh
[Music]
start with if you if you don't have
anything and i mean look at some of the
free stuff that they have out right now
just to kind of familiarize yourself
with it before you actually start doing
anything that way
one you're not paying for anything and
two when you do have to upgrade to
something at least you know what you're
doing
yeah
yeah the better idea of what you're
doing
it's a good point use the software
that'll let you use it for
and get some experience with it and uh
so a question looks like came in uh i
get leads from the lead service provider
and work direct with homeowners
but spend a lot of time chasing leads
not pan out making it hard to level up
in any way
uh i would say
i would
assume this is like using homeadvisor or
angie or something like that
and
chasing a lot of leads which means
you're you're competing with a lot of
people that
may or may not have the same
qualifications you do
you know we used some of that early on
we didn't find it valuable for our
company so we ceased using it
the main reason was
i've invested a lot of money and time in
providing a high service and
to get under cut by somebody that just
is not providing the same stuff is uh
and it's hard to convince a homeowner
uh that that that i'm the right person
and we don't do uh much residential
anymore but we used to
um and trying to convince a homeowner
that i'm the better bet at two thousand
dollars higher uh and this is why
usually fell on deaf ears because the
other guy would say well
you know i'm cheaper because i have less
overhead or whatever the situation we
just didn't find it valuable so what i
would say to you
um is
if you can and this is just an idea if
you can
document what type of leads are panning
out for you and what type or not from an
aspect of
what the homeowner is asking for if you
can graft that or if there's a way to
look at uh for example if you're really
successful on bathroom remodels but
you're not so successful on a
and maybe you just do flooring or you do
multiple other things but
if it
let's assume it's just flooring
um if you're not so competitive on
one given type
but you're you seem to be more
competitive in hardwood then kind of
double down on the part that you're
being successful on and leave the others
for the other guys um you guys have any
input on that
what we started doing was uh
pre-qualifying right so you have a
series of questions that you you kind of
ask
and then you kind of give a roundabout
budget number and then it's going to go
one of two ways oh
that's never mind like
why are you so high or that sounds fine
when can you get here
so
great advice it just sucks for the guys
that are paying for those leads anyways
because they're paying for them
whether or not
it's great for the company it's right
the home advisor and angie or whoever i
and i don't know what specific lead
service they're talking about but it's
great for them because they're getting
paid from multiple crews for the same
lead multiple times so it's great
business model for them to make money
yeah but i i don't
from my experience they don't qualify
the leads very well
so that's great advice daniel you're
gonna
that's probably the best advice qualify
the lead come up with um
you know a list of questions and maybe
daniel uh we can we can put that in a
blog post or something and and see what
you what kind of questions you guys have
asked that really uh starts to qualify
that lead
but you said you know kind of a
budgetary price asking some questions
maybe timelines that kind of thing and
pre-qualify that lead before you drive
out waste your gas and time i think one
of the biggest questions that i i don't
know if
jose's been asking it lately but it's
you know who else
are you guys getting numbers from and we
know that
that's that's a big question they say
you know one of five companies
i'm not even gonna bother with this you
know i don't i don't if you're gonna
you're gonna see that number and you're
gonna be like all right we're gonna go
with them but we know what you're gonna
get so
just kindly hey we're we can't handle
that right now or i don't i don't even
know what he says that is that is that
is one of the questions that i have
listed is
what other companies are you um asking
to to estimate this project or to bid
this project
um you know when and
that's mostly geared towards like the
residential aspect right because
consumers are a lot smarter now than
they were 10 years ago they're going to
shop around they're going to
do a lot of their own research and
they're going to ask multiple companies
to come in um they want you to can't
fight for their business and
you know i'm willing to earn someone's
business
to an extent but not at the cost of my
time because my time is very valuable as
well i have 20 other things that i can
be working on that are for sure things
so what do you say to a business what do
you say to somebody who says oh you're
you're not willing to
you know have competition is that the
thing what do you say to that
no it's not that i'm not willing to have
competition it's just that i know that
the the name
list that we'll be going against is i
offer more value and a more personal
experience than what they offer um and
what what i do is
believe it or not this is i'm not i say
this and i mean it
wholeheartedly is
i'm not a salesman
my job is to find what's going to
perform best for you and your family and
your home long term
because i don't want to come back in two
years and redo something i don't want to
come back in three months and fix
something i want to make sure that i'm
giving you
the best product and install for your
dollar that you can possibly have for
the use um i'm not trying to upsell them
i'm not trying to
this is i make the best margin on this
material right here you know i'm not
doing that this is the hot item this
month no i is it's a custom
it's a custom order from from start to
finish from our end um and you know it's
so amazing
you tell them straight out they look the
the difference is
we're going to look at your use case and
make sure you have the right product for
your house or for your home or
your business commercial you know a ti
finish thing with the dentist or
something what's going to work best for
your facility
yeah
we wanted we wanted to perform
you know they have expectations
and
so do we and we like to deliver
well this question has a a lot of
different ways you could go with it so i
hope we kind of
uh addressed it but i'd say your your
guys's uh input on pre-qualifying that
lead
before you go out and start measuring
and spending a bunch of time and effort
and producing a quote just to find out
you really had no chance anyway so i
guess
the whole purpose of pre-qualifying is
to
confirm that you at least have a chance
in being successful on that job right
yeah
all right guys well
that's kind of our thing one more thing
before we go
uh definitely like we're it's leveling
up right so it's about that time to or
whenever whenever you get there
make sure you get a website it doesn't
even need to be a super fancy one like
ours isn't super fancy or anything it's
just
a way that way everyone is on their
phones right be part of that social
media presence have a website link
everything together so that way when you
know someone searches for something
your name pops up yeah and they want to
see proof they want to see
things you've done
good good insight too for sure i i
started with a website
i don't know
if i did it right but i almost started
out of the gate with the website um back
when they were not uh easy to build but
i i scraped enough money together to
have somebody build one for me
way back when we first started um
the i i think that's very valuable
because the world is more digital than
ever and people don't go to your
storefront what's more important than
you know
not to check you out right to see what
kind of company you are or whatever they
are searching you online to find out so
that's great advice too
yeah and they don't cost they don't cost
much either i mean you can get a website
for a couple hundred dollars a year yeah
and they don't you can you can build it
yourself these days there's plenty of
different ways to do it or
you know a website used to cost ten
thousand you can get a website done
somebody can put it together for you for
a thousand bucks um and then if you know
you can go up from there obviously but
um yeah that's that's great advice guys
you you brought this uh whole huddle um
i appreciate all that
insights
and we're trying to learn from you and
listen from you
and learn from you and it didn't work
out did it no well it's great i learned
some stuff and i hope our audience did
too and uh just want to say thank you
guys we truly appreciate i'm sure i i
speak for daniel and jose as well that
we we appreciate you guys coming on and
and participating in the in the huddle
here our podcast
and um
we encourage you to join every week uh
we have about a 90
95 hit rate as far as being on here
every tuesday
um
out of 14 or whatever it's been 12 to
14. we've only missed a couple so uh
hopefully you guys keep coming um
post your comments i mean get involved
we'd love to get this out we know that
some industry people are watching and uh
we've had uh conversations with uh some
people in the industry so we can create
change if we band together so we
encourage you guys to join us uh and
let's have some good discussions we do
have some uh guests coming up we've
invited some people um and i know that
you guys just mentioned that
you're one of your clients would be
great to join as well so we'll bring
them on as and and let's have some good
conversation and we will see you guys
next week until next time all right
thanks guys
The Huddle - Episode 12 - CFI Convention Recap
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose go over things learned from the 2022 CFI Convention, as well as some thoughts on big changes being made in the industry.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
The Huddle - Episode 11 - Live from CFI Convention
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose make it face-to-face in Orlando, FL at the 2022 CFI Convention. They are joined by multiple guests discussing and encouraging installers to attend conventions and get trained.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up guys and welcome to the huddle
where we come to you every tuesday to
talk about maintaining forward progress
in your flooring career
as usual
but live
i got jose and daniel from preferred
flooring in michigan
we're coming to you live from cfi
convention so we thought we'd come
chat it up we had a
episode a few weeks ago about the
importance of coming to some of this
living what we speak uh we're all here
so they know we're not messing around
right we come to these things we network
and
we get to know a lot of like-minded
people that are that are in the industry
and
uh i was actually just over here in uh
a hands-on class that i had to ditch the
person that i was helping to come and
come out here
and i wouldn't apologize real quick she
said she's okay with it forgiven yeah
anything can happen anything can happen
people are going to be uh exiting the
class here pretty soon
uh maybe maybe somebody wants to come
back
to say hi yeah there's just been a lot
of information here already today and
they were running a little bit behind
schedule which is why
i was i had to run out of there and come
out here to talk to you guys
yeah so
the basis of today's just come live
hopefully some people come through after
the classes there's a lot of
courses and uh resilient class there's a
hand sewing class right down the down
the hall here so if they get out in time
they come join us at the podcast but
what we really feel is important to
understand is that
actually getting here uh might just drop
by
hopefully he comes back by but he he
said this is his rejuvenation
and this is time to like
recharge so a lot of us
you know a lot of the talk earlier was
about
uh in the other episode about getting to
convention and getting to you know the
trade shows
is all about knowledge and
networking but
some people come to recharge and be
around other flooring guys just kind of
bouncing stuff it doesn't have to be
technical we just enjoy each other's
company yeah we have common ground to
talk about
so that's one of the biggest reasons to
come that's how we charge just to put in
perspective when we got here right he
was he got here before me and then i got
here
with uh crystal and then we we walk up
to people and then you go to shake a
hand and they just they push it away
give me a hug give me a hug man it's
been so long since i've seen you we're
like family uh that's that's how you're
treated here and it's it's awesome
because
you know it's like
forget your handshake come give me a hug
bring it in
email yeah you know social network
when you're reaching out to all these
individuals you are still maintaining a
relationship but it's
it's totally different to have that um
that virtual relationship versus the in
person right the in person is a
different experience you get to put a
face to it you get to put reaction to it
it's real
it's a real life time really motion
you know
person to person you just can't ever
beat that kind of interaction
yeah hell i've seen dwayne pruitt
he lives in wichita i've seen here
so i mean i don't see him hardly ever
he's in my hometown i mean sometimes it
gets so busy you just need a few days
away
go hang out with some people have the
like i said the common ground
you will end up working through some
problems with one another i mean that's
already happening i got here really late
i literally flew in jumped in
got the rental got set up and here we
are
right i think i just seen you what 15
minutes ago for the first time and yeah
we're like hey let's set this up let's
start talking yeah so we're going to be
here every tuesday guys
we're not here but we're going to be
home sure
so every tuesday
three o'clock central
four o'clock eastern you can do the
other math but come join us this is
gonna be a short episode i am hoping to
get some guests on but yeah uh
the whole
real purpose of this is training so they
are doing some pretty significant
training down the hall
my biggest ploy to everybody is come to
convention come join us next year come
hang out with us
i've seen
seen
[Music]
my first podcast would be like
i don't know
a guy talking sports or something but uh
thank you for uh letting me sit down
with you guys awesome great yeah chris
mckee paul stewart paul nice to meet you
daniel
pleasure nice to meet you guys chris is
the
new president new president of cfi yes
tell us a little bit about chris uh well
i have been in the flooring business for
32 years
uh it's the only career i've ever had i
started off in manufacturing
right i'm sorry you started on accident
you're right and then the truth do you
have a time limit
but yeah this is the absolute truth
people that know me know this story well
so uh
my i grew up in pittsburgh pennsylvania
went to college at georgia tech
uh my uh
high school sweetheart
was a year older than me and she went to
college in ohio
and
[Music]
you know we stayed together all through
college and she graduated obviously a
year ahead of me and got this amazing
job that center in new york city
so i'm getting ready to graduate from
tech
and i have to find a company that wants
to hire somebody that
you know will send be sent to new york
city
and uh
my old
[Music]
one of my old mentors
sent me a letter saying hey if you're
interested in a good company contact
shaw industries contact this guy shaw
and i contacted i said well i'm really
looking for a job in new york city and
he said
we always need
sales guys in new york city
so i signed on with shaw and started
january 8th uh 1990
and entered their uh training program
and that put me in new york or in dalton
for four and a half months of training
right extensive training start off in a
manufacturing plant you do sales
training product knowledge field travels
all this stuff and after four and a half
months i moved to manhattan
with my girlfriend and vice great and
three weeks later we went to lunch she
told me she thought it was never going
to amount to anything she dumped me and
that was
i've been in the industry for 31 years
ever since so
oh sure yeah
you think i'm money driven i'm revenge
but uh yeah so that's how i got the
flooring business i spent about 11 years
in manufacturing
about six plus years with the home depot
okay i started with the home depot and
business development and then became
their general manager of installed
services for decor categories so i
managed all the installations for
flooring countertops
interior exterior panning garage coney
coating and window treatments
and
uh after about six years of doing that i
decided it'd be fun to go out on my own
and i started my own work room
and uh started a work room uh
named it national installation solutions
inc you know it's a very funny story
about that
and i thought okay yeah i'm going to
start a company
your name means a lot
so i said
you gotta i want i want them to think
that i'm big
so i said national good news yeah yeah
and i wanted to be
agnostic so i don't want anything in
their flooring because i was just
starting off if you asked me to install
a garage door i'd do it so i just said
installations
and then with my experience of five or
six years
i had all these uh
uh relationships and i thought i'd use a
lot of my relationships to help me
fulfill so i'd start this partner
network so i said national installation
partners
then i wanted to tell them
you know i'm going to solve your
problems so i'm going to call it
national installation partner solutions
that's perfect
start playing around with the name doing
that room like apps
nips i said people are going to think i
own a strip club
yeah exactly so i changed it to national
installation solutions bank
and uh had that business for 11 years uh
we were primarily primarily b2b so we
did a lot of pro
fulfillment for any kind of pro
contracts that the home depot would get
okay uh that's how i started and then
uh the mortgage crisis hit right yeah
and so i started doing work for
rates who were buying up a lot of houses
and started doing work uh for fannie mae
and freddie mac
and
what turned into part of atlanta it
turned into part of georgia turned into
georgia florida alabama
and then my
the last three years before um
we moved on with the company we um
started fulfill for uh that we were the
biggest fulfiller for uh empire today in
the southeast so
that's kind of my history in that and
then uh
decided to
take an advantage of an opportunity to
move
that business somewhere else
and uh for the last five years i've done
board work and contract work for cca and
for some manufacturers
awesome then i saw this opportunity
well congrats so how long have you been
with cfi now i
joined cfi may 15th of this year and it
isn't official until right now because
he just made the announcement here
until you're on this podcast you mean
nothing you heard it now yeah
exactly the emails and stuff that we got
no nothing nothing this is the only
validation industry
i really enjoyed your welcome speech
earlier oh thank you so i appreciate
that that actually um
was broadcast as well just because
you know we want to kind of show people
um
why why you come to this these kind of
things well there's a problem with that
because you broadcast without my rights
and i mean look at this yeah tick tock
star i mean come on i need royalties
can see the the excitement that is here
and why they should
not just be a member of cfi but
participate yeah yeah and that's been
the biggest thing
we're trying to talk about it's
a lot of people have the mindset of why
am i going to go here when it's not
going to benefit me but
those are the people that don't go to
they're looking at direct benefit right
they're saying
i i give this effort and i make
i get this for it really in investing
you have to have a longer term
view of it well so so
there there's two things right there
when it comes to turning your money or
turning your investment and or your
capital right human capital
or
social capital well you know just just
let's just say capital money
there's two ways to do it
long term is investing that's where you
understand that you put a certain amount
of capital human capital sweat equity
into something knowing that down the
road you're going to put yourself in a
position to make more back
and the other way is to put your money
somewhere
where you get instant return and that's
called vegas
so
and and
and those casinos weren't built on
winners right so no when when i look at
an event like what we're doing here at
cfi
there's there's really
multiple things that you can get if you
you come here number one
you got to be a member if you if you're
in this trade
you got to become a member of cfi i
don't know if your entire audience are
members i i would reckon to say no not
the entire audience but what i'd say is
a lot of the people who comment and
participate are cfi yeah so you know if
you if you look at our industry i mean
we've got roughly what 11 000 retailers
out there i don't know that nobody knows
the exact number and who to listen to
number of installers out there whether
it's 150 000 or 550 000 but there's a
lot of people in install floors and you
know just like everything in else in
life that you do whether it's trying to
make your high school football team or
trying to get a date to the prom or
trying to get a better job you got to
find something to differentiate yourself
and the first step in differentiation
and approach like flooring installation
is becoming a member of cfi right off
the bat it tells your audience that you
care enough to be part of a professional
organization
that
in that that you want to be different
the the second thing is
getting certified you know
you get certified and what you're
telling the industry in the community
that you deal with is you understand the
value of investing in yourself to
improve the
quality of uh
of the product that you offer and these
are really great guys helping me over
here
[Laughter]
[Music]
and then watching you talk on their
phones
[Music]
and so lastly uh and what i say about
attending events like this
is
you know there
you we offer training right we offer
classes we offer exposure to vendors and
we offer camaraderie but the camaraderie
isn't just about having a good time it's
talking to people
that have more experience than you like
we've got roland off camera here who's
132 years old no that's 132 years in the
industry industry that's right
and so but i mean if you're if you're
five years into the career
sitting down and having coffee with this
guy for a half an hour is is going to
advance you in the um
intangible aspects of running a flooring
business which is which you are as an
individual your own business uh and
secondly if you're five years in and you
come here
and you meet someone who's one year in
you're going to help them right and
that's the community aspect of it that
you can only get by attending
right you really
touched on something that we've been
kind of preaching to it's not only are
you here to try and
gain some benefit yourself you're here
to
yeah you're here to give back you you
have to not you have knowledge that
other people don't have as well so why
don't you
share that so that way it's not locked
all inside right absolutely and you know
one thing that you heard me say today
and other people have heard me say
is the worst thing that we can do as an
organization the worst thing
we can do as individuals in in this
industry
is from an industry perspective if we
are irrelevant
right and irrelevant means people don't
know
what you're doing other than your
actions so so we but but when we
consolidate
and we can get together and create a
bigger movement
then we can start pulling the industry
with us
so you know for
for years
you know we've been about pushing
our members into the industry
what we need to do is you know
understand what's important to our other
stakeholders and create an opportunity
or a
situation or environment
where
the industry wants to pull us towards
them and they say okay i get it right
these guys
and gals have the right idea the right
approach they they got a plan they know
what they want to offer the industry and
the industry sees value and says come to
us
yeah one of the things that i think cfi
does well
uh
is
in my opinion what
the what what we have to do
the biggest problem that could happen is
we got a lot of
say 50 to the average age being around
55 for
up to 150. up to 100. yeah
the biggest thing we could create is to
not get the knowledge out of their head
into it's just a waste
do it and your opportunity to come and
learn from people who have done it as
long as wrong
if you just put it in a personal note
that anybody can understand that's why
we should encourage young kids to sit
down and spend time talking to older
people you know their grandparents you
go volunteer at old folk time because
there's knowledge and wisdom that you
can't learn in a book right and that
that's really conveyed um i talked to
zach stacy he did the installation
competition over here they had the
regionals and he was like man they're
like just watching these guys that have
been doing this for 40 years
was worth just coming here even if i
don't get a spot just just to see the
way that their hand skills are and the
way that they do things was worth the
investment because now i've got new
tricks in my back pocket yeah that's
just kind of zach's a phenomenal one he
is he's a young guy he's very good i
know him pretty well
and coming to this stuff his boss who i
know very well
has made sure he comes to convention he
brings his guys i mean then don't forget
there's the then there's the just the
purely personal standpoint feeling good
about yourself feeling pride competition
camaraderie those are things that you
only get by being here in person and you
know we had a great turnout this year uh
bigger than last year awesome but as i
said in the room uh if you were there
when i was talking you know this in
three years this this room needs to be
five times bigger yeah and it needs to
include
and it needs it needs to be because we
if we're going to move the needle we've
got to move the needle right i mean you
know we've got a small percentage
participating right now not a membership
but we have a small percentage in the
industry and we want to make an impact
because we need to make changes to make
the fulfillment industry your
fulfillment side of our industry better
and
but you're going to see
next year i'm hoping we have 100
retailers in here yeah right 100
retailers who show up
and become members of cfi in a different
form and they show up and by showing up
they're saying i recognize the value of
a cfi installer the amount of
information that is here and at
everyone's fingertips is ridiculous
whether it's hand skills or like you
said earlier the information
that you could use to to help raise your
business to the next level absolutely uh
the social capital that is here just to
just to help an individual realize that
there's more to it
i mean just think about this in less
than 15 minutes we start a class
with
[Music]
an insurance specialist
who's here how often do people get to
talk to somebody who's not trying to
sell them a product but is trying to
educate them on something that isn't
part of their trade but is absolutely
necessary um we also have a session
with a top-notch attorney our attorney
yeah who's going to send down and talk
to them about how to face the legal
challenges being an independent
contractor so it's it's really great
that's something that might not be
talked about in your day to day right
like everyone you're the sole proprietor
might not even think about that because
they're really leaning on the person
giving them the work to take care of all
the legal documents and they're just
well and if you have legal questions on
your own you're going to pay 500 bucks
an hour yeah right and instead you're
here getting it for free so uh and and
somebody's just dedicated to answering
your questions so yeah
please come join in absolutely
i got one last question for you yes
maybe putting you on the spot a little
bit with just being here since uh been
in the position since may but what is
your initial vision
for
kind of how the the ship for cfi is uh
sailing okay where do you see it going
in the next so
you know
you know as i said to the general
session today
it's not it's
you know it's not about change it's
about growth it's about evolution right
the
we need to grow and we need to evolve
so change means there's something that
we're doing today that we don't want to
do anymore well we are we are a great
certification
company or organization what we need to
do is expand grow and evolve so that we
become
a
excellent training organization so we we
offer training without certification
right because it's a career path right
but but
we we
you know the industry has to realize
we're not just fighting to get a young
person
to choose to do this instead of working
in the auto trade or in the you know the
framing industry or painting that we're
competing against amazon and walmart and
yeah
[Music]
you know where i live in georgia
a 17 year old kid could graduate high
school and start at 18 and 50 cents an
hour minimum wage with full benefits at
costco
right so so we need to be able to get
that person so
you know we can get them working right
away and earning a good living might not
be certification but it's a training so
that they can start to work and then
after you know they work for a little
while and say wait a minute i can invest
a little bit more of my time effort and
money and get a level one certification
and that will present a more you know
get them further along in their career
and then level two and level three so
as we look forward to cfi evolving
i think we got to continue to be the
absolute superior certification company
in the industry we also have to
uh do a great job of providing
entry-level
training
and then last but not least is we have
to work on the connectivity with the
industry and and that's the biggest part
and it truly is the biggest part because
without the industry recognizing the
value in cfi then
it will never be able to be what it
really is and we're going to do that by
really taking a hard look at you know
our four stakeholders in the industry
which are manufacturers resellers
installation professionals and consumers
right and then you have to understand
what value
uh
is there but how do they each one of
those four stakeholders you know look at
their own value proposition or what
they're looking for in a value
proposition then we need to make sure
that cfi
is meeting the needs of those values and
we got to map it and that's kind of our
vision and uh our strategy and then as
we
turn that into a strategy uh then it
becomes a plan and and that's the most
important thing going forward to now
with cfi is we've got had really solid
structured plans and processes so we
know that we're heading in the right
direction and we can
ask our great volunteers to help us get
there and not just throw them out there
and say go train people yeah so it's not
just a certification
it's more of an educational platform
but don't don't miss the connectivity
yeah right you got to get the
connectivity because that's what's going
to determine whether we really make a
difference because right now we've got
to take the use the connectivity to take
the industry to say
i get it well we have to open back up
the gap so
i read an article about
what we were talking about just a few
moments ago about retail
the gap in pay
has always been pretty substantial
between skilled labor and retail retail
can move a little bit faster because
most retails
is um
you know you mean retail flooring just
retail
uh employment retail employment yeah
they can move so fast because they're
huge companies they raise their price
take a little hit on their stock
whatever not
we as a and i'm talking not just
flooring but skilled labor in general
move slower in that
escalation of wages so
that's another key factor i think we all
need to be aware of is we need to open
that gap back up where your entry level
guy going to costco
is uh you know because we used to hire
guys at 15 bucks an hour now you got to
hire them at 22 bucks an hour and they
may not know much right right because
you got to open that yeah for them to
work hard
in a skilled trade it has to have more
value to them and we have to give them
it's got to be defined right it's got to
be defined and clearly layout right if i
if i walk into a
home depot or if i i'm not talking as an
installer right i'm just talking about
working retail if i walk into a home
depot or a costco or a target and apply
for a job and get accepted you can say
all right i'm starting at minimum wage
but they have a they have a very well
thought out hr program that says
if you do this
you can qualify for a senior associate
then a department head and then an
assistant manager and then a store
manager and then a district manager and
you know what these companies are filled
with stories of kids that started 16 and
the next thing you know you know 20
years later they're running the company
and those are real stories we we have to
build the same path that's rounded out
rounding out your vision absolutely
right there absolutely so that's that's
what we want to create and it it begins
by having the strategy and the plan and
the processes we wish you the very best
because you got a heck of a road ahead
of you yeah we did and we're here to
help you guys out too well i appreciate
it that's why we're all here i
appreciate it we want you to shut down
the damn podcast and let's get to work
it's a pleasure nice meeting you guys
thanks appreciate it absolutely i'll
talk to you soon awesome bye-bye
so well i hope you guys enjoyed that
that was pretty cool yeah
non-scripted non-scripted yeah so
we're gonna
we got a trainer coming in right now
hello he'll tell you a little bit about
himself hi hi man i'm paul hey paul i'm
paul
you guys right
so so we met all 2020 over at surfaces
and have been communicating with him
ever since he's
starting with the competition starting
with the competition speaking virtually
in person
tell us about yourself a little bit
yeah
oh you didn't know this was alive
no this is this is real this is real so
everyone knows right this is real
reaction real time all right
there's there's no hiding it and this is
what resonates with with anyone who's
tuning in they want to see the real
stuff so just let us know about you yeah
well all right you got the real me uh my
name is paul traynor i work with
informal markets i work on the
international surface event most
everyone knows of the surfaces if you
are a stone fabricator or a stone quarry
you know us for stone expo and if you're
on the tile installation or
the sundry size you probably know from
kyle expo yeah and the show's been on
since around 1990 1991 i started my
career there where when it was owned by
wfca i was trade show coordinator they
sold the show in 2000 to henley wood and
it was like a buy one get one free
package buy the show you get the trade
show coordinator free
i went off with them moved to dallas and
stayed in dallas for 15 years and worked
on surfaces for another four years
before i transitioned off onto other new
shows that were coming into the
into the company and
taking care of those and then
transitioned back coming back to about
2017. and i was working with when you
rejoined services
i rejoined services in 2018.
worked on another one of our events in
the los angeles area for about two years
before we sold it again
and that put me right back into surfaces
so
one big circle yeah
know that they're lucky to have you
because i love talking with you
you're super awesome to work with
and i appreciate everything that you've
been doing it's not gone unnoticed
you've watched you've watched a lot of
installers including
daniel maybe myself but transition from
when we were first introduced to the
events to where
where everyone sits now right like
you've seen
more action than we have we're still
fairly new we're considered new um but
what kind of transitions have you seen
and effects for
installers and individuals companies so
let me set this up just a bit a few a
few podcasts ago we were talking about
the importance of getting to
convention obviously but also like the
other trade shows getting from the
installer standpoint um some of them are
not as well attended for installers so
we're trying to encourage them to
get to services get to cover and get to
you know convention
so
a little i think that's kind of what
we're driving at here is
what type of transitions maybe have you
seen from people coming to shows and
getting more involved and then just
really loving this thing
i didn't know there was any other shows
besides ties
tell me more about these other shows
tell me about this yeah
the
transition has come
fairly frequently um i would say up
until
oh i'd probably say
five six maybe seven eight years ago
you could see almost all
and not just inside but everyone was
siloed and if you were parker you were
carpenter if you were tall you were
tired there was no blending there was no
cross-merge between each one
very much
later and very recently you started
seeing a little bit more openness and
and talking amongst each other i think
you see if i
and
installers are a little more open to it
retailers
by and far especially in the times in
the early times when i was working on
surfaces from 1997 to 2004 retailers
would know each other would be friendly
maybe in their communities but they
would not share secrets there was no
everything was a secret everything was a
trade
idea and you didn't want to share
because you didn't want your competition
to get a leg up whereas installers
100
i've always seen where installers share
their ideas and share their discoveries
and strategies to
run a better business
quicker techniques and better practices
we love sharing that stuff
and the retailers were just sitting here
like this guarding it very very tightly
even if you go back to when i competed
in 2020 um
my competitor mike he actually
i looked at his and i was like
how did you do that right and then he
had no issues with saying this is how i
did it this is where you can find some
information on it
that way you know
some of his stuff 100 look better than
mine and you know he's got that
experience and the knowledge to know
where to look for things and then just
him expanding on that and letting me
know
taught me all right this is where i can
find information anytime anyone else has
a question
i can point them in that direction as
well
and roll it back to your point where you
it all rolls back into advance because
now going back
surfaces much more deeply
i haven't come back to informa um
retailers are more open installers are
definitely more open everyone's sharing
the information everyone is now talking
and i believe that it is the trade shows
conferences events that that information
is all shared and everyone can kind of
sit down on an even playing field and
talk about what's working what's not
figuring out that together the boat can
grow right well i don't have to protect
our piece of the pie it does seem like
uh the shows are kind of like open more
open arms to installers now too you see
i mean this last year i've seen way more
than
in the past and it's like they're
welcomed more i if if you talk to an
installer 10 years ago they
one probably didn't even know about any
of the shows but if they did
they thought it was only for
the manufacturers to go make deals with
some
some distributors or something like that
and that business happens there and
that's great but
this open arm in the installation
competition and all that
really seems like it's
brought in more of the installer
community and to me that's really
important because
those guys understanding one of the best
things i ever did is went seeing how
carpet was made when i went to the mill
that was it was eye-opening
so just being involved where those
opportunities come up and and being
involved in um
tice and getting to the that show
getting here to convention
i think it's a it can really kind of
maybe not quantly that might be a big
word to use right there but elevate your
your chance for success as an installer
you know like
well that that's what it's all about
yeah
so it is true um
i recognized you for many companies
especially independent contractors but
most installers aren't getting any
contractors unless you have the luxury
of maybe a retailer who's willing to
pony up the money and send you out to an
event it that's money out of your pocket
one you're gonna pay registration fees
you're gonna have a big hotel plus the
time away from your business and all
that especially time away from the
business and not being able to do jobs
is money right out of your pocket yeah
it's a true investment it's an
investment it really is but it will pay
dividends with the connections you make
and the opportunities that you grow um
first time i ever met yet i would never
have imagined that eventually he's going
to be speaking for me and the programs
yeah and
but it all makes sense it takes those
connections and
i may not be able to find you if you if
anyone's staying home and
you got to shoot your shotgun
yeah so get to convention guys i mean
get here get the thais tice by the way
is awesome i've been going for many
years i've always enjoyed the show and
you guys do a wonderful job putting that
on so yeah it's bigger and better in
2023.
let everyone know the day too everything
january 30th january 30th and february
2nd uh is the entire show programs day
uh with our pre-show day and then the
three days of the show yeah come this
year you have six months to plan let's
do it paul's gonna be waiting for you
both paul's are gonna be waiting for you
the polls will be there and we will be
looking for you
well thanks for joining us i really
appreciate the time and getting
yeah see you around awesome all right
thank you nice always talking with you
guys see you right now
bye
i think we need to get this guy over
here roland
150 year old guy over here
he's got to grab his cane hold on
get in the walker
[Laughter]
yeah right
what's going on man how are you doing
buddy good to see you brother
man
so rollin
participates uh when we're we're
not together so it's fun having them
here when we are together too
yeah yeah we
good program guys thank you all right
yeah these guys are awesome it's great
to get on and chat with everybody and
just have a good meaningful conversation
it's about educating the industry about
getting together as
installers and people you know tell us a
bit about you because you do some pretty
interesting work
well you know
or tell to i mean for the
audience that doesn't know well you know
tell us a little bit about well you know
i have a little retail shop in frederick
maryland i was of course starting
industry as a you know subcontractor for
a lot of years and i still still get out
there doing it
uh but i have a little retail shop and
uh
but yet i i get out i do
inspections for manufacturers i
uh
teach and train it with cfi and nfic and
anybody else will let me teach it you
know
because i'm getting education
uh well giving it your knowledge is
really cool yeah a lot of information
yeah yeah i try
you know my daughter my my oldest
daughter she's a cfo for her company out
in oregon
and she was home one day and she was
looking through my portfolio
i have a portfolio
and she looked at me she's dad you know
how many years of college it would take
for somebody to get this portfolio
you know
and and and i looked at her and she says
yeah and i said yeah
i guess that's my college you know yeah
yeah you know and that's what you know i
have guys asked me today
you know they'll say what do you mean
you're going to go to this training or
go to the convention or go to a
certification
and i go listen
none of us know it all
and so
you know i'm going to go to it because i
want to know everything i can
for the industry
and whether it be a a
a seminar for a sales person you know i
want to know all aspects of the industry
there being one for the manufacturer
whether it be one for you know
a training or for a new product out
there well you i mean just you just
spoke about um
being an inspector doing inspections do
you think that would be um
it would be a good practice for
installers to
uh get an inspection
uh certificate you know to get trained
well i think i i think
you know i didn't think about that
aspect of it until towards the end of my
end of my career because
you know fortunately for me you know the
lord's been good to me and my body is
still in you know for 134 years old
you know and but you got to look at the
future
and looking at the future you know
you you're to where you get to the point
that you want to get off your knees
because you've got to look at that
you know
and so looking at the future inspections
is one of those features
you know
uh going to work for a manufacturer is
one of those futures and going into a
dealer and working in the sales is one
of those futures
so to have that future you've got to be
open to look at that at that
if you don't want to travel around and
be
a tech for a manufacturer or something
like that you want to stay local because
you have family and all that
then you want to get with the dealer or
look or learn that aspect of it
and
and that's what i did in 1995 middle of
95
you know i thought you know what
i
you know i'm pretty well versed
i was making a good living with it and
everything else but now i want to learn
more
and to learn more was going in and
learning the other aspects
learning you know i started going to
sales seminars
i actually went to the junior college
and took some customer service courses
you know yeah it's invested in yourself
right
and so i wanted to learn that in
so i would have
more i was more versatile
more valuable
and as an installer
you can start looking at that and you
can
and going to you were talking earlier
with with paul
going to
the texas going to the nwfa going to
coverings you know going going to the
cfi convention
you know that all is part of that
package
of making you
more rounded and valuable
and so as far as an inspection that's
another avenue
that you can go into well and i would
think that it also
helps
an installer to understand what
inspectors look for correct because what
you when you go through training
you say you're new and you're learning
we'll just use carpet say you're
learning carpet and you you kind of get
your
feet wet and say two years down the road
you're installing on and
it's valuable to understand what on the
other side what the manufacturer sees is
the most important pieces of that
installation
so that's where i see that getting uh
certified as an inspector even if you
don't use it right away
is valuable knowledge for you to put the
final pieces of the puzzle together and
say you know what i know they look for
steam sales
become a better installer well it helps
you know and know what to do
you know because they're again talking
about that
the inspection
portion of what i do
is small
because of what else i do
as far as my business
and all that
but i have it there and i
when i keep my foot in it and do it
we don't want to do it yeah and how
often i want to do it
who knows
you know when i went instead of being
134 when i hit 135 i might decide to
flip that around yeah all right yeah and
so well you're still crazy enough now to
get it to like
these restaurants right you know yeah
restaurant you know yeah you know and
and i do you know
when i go to do those
you know and guys like jose and ed that
come and help me i don't say you get in
there and do it and you shut back and
just drink coffee i get in there with
them yeah yeah 100 you know work circles
around me you know so
you know so you know i get in there with
them i'm not asking them to come help me
do this
and
put them in the word and say yeah make
me look good you know they do but still
you know
his
sister has a video of me making a
misconception
hasn't been published yet
i'm sitting there i'm cutting in this
piece really i'm cutting in this
groundless pillow and she come up with
the camera and i'm looking up and you
know you just say i'm and so i'm like
and as soon as i did it you knew you
know because i was looking up at her
oh crap
oh you only do stuff like that when
someone's watching she was filming you
know i'm like you know and she's said
they're filming and i'm like and i cut
to one side dropped it down like what
and as soon as i went like this
i've got to lay this down here she's got
the camera rolling
oh no
so so anyway
so i laid it down and of course she had
to come there
focus on it
she didn't go and focus on it after i
fixed it you couldn't see it but she
focused on that well you got to get some
collateral you know it's like really you
know so yeah so you know doing the
restaurant
and all that but you know what i'm going
to tell them you know talking about to
the guys and talk to them up there
you know never stop never stop going
you know oh you know i mean
i
have lifelines and part of the lifelines
is your network and networking is what
you get here yeah is what you get at you
know get in get in and even the forums
you know i mean their lifelines and
their networking there's more
opportunities that can be created and
generated from
involving yourself in the industry
instead of just working on what you
think you need to work on there's more
to it you might not know yes what else
you can work on until you come to a
place like this and you put yourself out
there you ask
questions you you make sure that you you
leave yourself vulnerable right yeah
humility you know and you know what's
nice about
with you know cfi and you know in all
the organizations
is that
you know i'll get a phone call
you know i i have this situation you
know what what am i supposed to do
there's times i don't have the answer
yeah so i don't know everything yeah you
recall all right so fortunately for me i
go okay well let me let me
let me go look at my stuff
and my stuff is i hang the phone up and
i call something
uh mr namba what do i do here
[Music]
you know and and so i you know there's
lifelines
that you get with this you know or i'll
call you know
say they called me and it was a piece of
mohawk and now he's engineered floors
but he used to be able to call me
something with mohawk and it's something
new yeah and i'm like okay
andrew smith
but you had that information yeah
it's about getting to the shows
getting to know those people and then
having those relationships to lean on
correct right yes thanks ron man i
appreciate you joining us it's been a
pleasure all right always a pleasure
guys
and thanks for participating take it
easy
1500 push-ups a day
so i'm splitting like a dog
i'll get them out of the way
200 literally i do about 5 600 today
you're the man i just did a couple
hundred dollars i wouldn't be finished
well awesome welcome to uh the huddle
thanks these guys love what you guys are
doing this is awesome platform for the
installment
yeah that's right
well trying to encourage them to get to
convention get to the
different trade shows
and just get involved yeah a lot of a
lot of the install uh community
has felt siloed over the years that i
was just talking to paul
you can see it enticed you can see more
install you can see the opening of the
arms to the installation community and i
think the guys this is the time
when our audience needs to
get to these events
invest the time in that i i know it's an
investment we all have good jobs
um but we come to these events because
we see value i've been doing this for
since i got out of high school
so
all the years of experience tells me to
get to these events each year so you
learn more here because you're
interacting with the people that live
your profession some of them have
experience where you don't have
experience
you might get that online you might get
it in a class but you can pick it up
here from word knowledge you won't get
anywhere else and if there's every time
the installation world needs to come
together because you're right we we've
lived solo maybe by accident more than
on purpose but because we didn't have an
event like this to come to cfi has been
around the reach of cfi has never been
as great as this
we got the opportunity to bring people
in from all over and say okay let's
let's combine our voice because when
you're out there individually crying hey
foul we're not getting paid enough for
whatever it may be you're one voice when
you get together with an organization
like this and you cry out they hear you
yeah it makes a big difference
definitely power numbers and in
cross-communicating between
you know foreign companies retailers
manufacturers a lot of these events
allow you to get like sit next to
uh the president of edf
contract or you know district people
have seen you know yeah
and we didn't even properly introduce
scott scott
everyone knows
ceo of wsca
listen i grew up in a 10-foot wide
trailer i don't ever see myself as a ceo
but i do realize the power
of all of us getting together and what
you're doing what you're creating with
your career the opportunity for an
installer to have a platform visibility
yeah the visibility the the necessity
for the industry to embrace what we're
doing
never happened it's the reason that when
i came over wsca i said we have to have
cfi under our realm yeah we need to
combine the voices of retail
not just retail i mean 90 of our
membership is retail independent foreign
retails it's also manufacturers
distributors vendors we get all those
voices combined with the people that are
on the front line reaching our customer
last then we can make a difference but
we got to be willing listen i tell
people all the time it's like steering
an aircraft carrier you know you turn
the wheel but you can't see anything
happen
and we all want the same thing we've
just got to come together put down the
silos and the walls and say okay let's
tackle this yeah well i see that
happening more i mean i i really see uh
the advancement in the communication
lines and your leadership live that you
do every week i believe yeah every
friday is awesome
if you guys are not on the wfca's email
list get on it and the leadership online
that's very valuable not only that the
membership is free yeah membership is
free to you unless you're a
manufacturing distributor they pay a
very minimal amount but it means it
costs you nothing right
as an installer the membership is free
why not take advantage of that yeah you
got to because the resources are there
there's so much you have access to on
our website and there's just we we think
about what are the needs of the people
that are coming to our site what are the
needs of our members and when i left
shaw and became the ceo of the wfc i
asked myself one question
what should an association do
well associations exist to solve the
problems of their members right so
what's the biggest problem in our
industry
right here installation and we had we
had tons of silos talking about it but
nobody was actually doing anything about
it everybody was saying that your
problem is your problem
and so we knew when we brought cfi under
our realm we were saying it's our
problem yeah and we want all of us to
address this together that's the reason
when we helped create fcef it was all
about before the solution well i love
that i love that talking point that you
bring it up uh fairly often is
don't just complain like get involved
yeah there's organizations uh with wfca
cfi
uh go carrera
nwm
that's available for you to get involved
and if you don't like something your
voice is more heard today than ever as
an installer you have a better chance of
making
impactful change that you see necessary
but you have to come to convention you
have to get involved become a cfi member
get if you're not certified or trained
it's very simple squeaky wheel disagrees
yeah we're really working with
manufacturers to get them to require
certification for warranties or
extension warranties taylor by the way
is doing an amazing job they double the
length of the warranty if you're cfi
certified and you use those
we hope everybody sees the common sense
in that it comes on board because when
we drive certification we drive
professionalism within the industry
which draws more people into it
[Music]
your time to increase your knowledge and
they see the value of this so they
understand that you are putting forth
the effort to understand the science
behind the product they're pushing out
so that's why it's
i want to say easy for them to extend
that warranty because they know that
you're investing the time so why not
invest back into those those individuals
but i can tell you that there's large
retailers so cfi's uh training and their
weight
that it carries in our algorithm for our
hammer rating and go carrera is one of
the heaviest trains period
so that's cool what that means is
we have we're working with several
national retailers retail chains that
are
going to be coming down the pipe as uh
full remodels of their
tens of thousands of locations and
they're they're writing in their
specifications i help them write their
specification to have a minimum handle
so that that hammer rating is directly
reflective of cfi's
trainings and certifications and all
that not only
do you have the camera ready but we tout
that it's also cfi you know
you know it's all in the profile so
point being is this is becoming more
important to retailers
the reason behind that as it was
explained to me by a very large retailer
is
we
thrive on consistency to our customers
that's what they do
if you're a automotive store you want
the same experience for your customer in
north carolina as new york
whether you eat a hamburger or buy
because the world has become very
nationalized that way right
they want the same consistency that they
provide when they get their
construction projects done and in our
field and their customers workers
they want the consistency and so now
they're starting
a very large retailer is writing in
their spec for minimum hammering because
they want that
consistency
no matter where they get their flooring
and salt any of their locations all over
the nation and that comes from getting
go career does no training we don't
train nobody you have to go to cfi you
got to get trained it carries a lot of
weight in our algorithm
that we give that gives you your skill
score and your hammer rating but you've
got to get the convention you got to get
trained
and
get the certifications as well and
there's going to be opportunities
opening up whether expected you got to
be cfi trained or cfi certified i know
cti on the ctf yeah
i hope you guys know all these
yeah
those guys are getting specified now
this is gonna mean money in your pocket
as an installer and that's what really
matters
we wouldn't be lying
you said we never got a phone call
because of our affiliations our
certifications um you know it's been a
trickle effect right like it puts your
name on a list of
qualified individuals or companies and
you never know when the phone is going
to read because of those connections
that were made we'll limit your
competition
it does what it does is it creates
separation from you and what you
consider your competition
and it puts you in a category all your
own depending on
the market in your area you might be one
of three or one of 30 but you're still
separated right you just increased your
chances
of landing a project you just increase
your chances of generating that revenue
whether it's on the sales or just the
installation side you just increase your
visibility and then not only that it's
once you elevate yourself to the point
to where you become one of the most
knowledgeable people in your particular
area
they call the other guys because they're
looking for someone and then everyone
will point their finger back at you and
you know we've been pretty fortunate so
that that has been what a blessing that
is to get to that level yeah yeah like
another your peers are referring here
it's no longer a competition that at
that point you are sharing the wealth
and you are understanding that
you as an individual have limitations
but you know what because of the network
that we've created i know someone who
can take care of it i know a company can
install it
it can be one of the relationships
again it's the reason you need to be at
these meetings you meet people that can
be a resource for you to help solve some
of the issues that are impacting your
opportunity for success yeah
very busy man yeah i'm heading down
thank
we have we have recruiters right now
that are seeing guys walk by or we only
have five minutes guys i would love to
have more
conversations
uh hopefully we can get daniel over here
back to
to say bye but look we we've had a great
time today
we're running out of time on this
podcast
what fun
has it been
oh sis
listen she went to the nap it's okay
so we're wrapping things up we're
running out of time
say hi
everybody get to convention next year
and tice again is in january i believe
he said right into january check it out
and uh thanks everybody for coming by i
didn't get to any questions we just
simply ran out of time here are we out
of time i wanted to get we got about
four minutes before four minutes we're
just talking about the importance of
trade shows and why do you think that
other installers should come over here
uh
way more important really
we've been doing this to everyone yeah
so chime in don't be shy
videos and such like that anyway this
stuff like this right here that they're
doing is super important you get all
kinds of hands-on knowledge and stuff
like that you're actually starting to
get more and more into doing teachings
here uh if you're not if you don't do
something by all means it's good just
just to come and get your feel of it i
just went through a
um
a resilient class that i've never done
before i don't do resilient but i always
wanted to check it out and do some manly
and stuff like that so i had a chance
here to go and
get a little test with that so
you get to meet people uh
learn new skills meet some new people
lots and tons of us maybe jump on a
podcast out of the blue yeah somebody
say hey come here
reuben we we appreciate it man i know we
think we're running out of time yeah no
i appreciate you guys
come join come join all right guys hey
guys thanks goodbye
foreign
The Huddle - Episode 10 - Getting Paid; How to Avoid Common Problems
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose discuss common mistakes installers make when receiving money, and some resources and solutions to ensure an installer is protected from any monetary mishaps.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
so what's up everybody and welcome to
the huddle where we discuss how to
maintain ford progress in your flooring
installation career i'm paul stewart and
i'm joined today by daniel and jose of
preferred flooring as usual
uh today we're going to con
conduct a a little different type of
huddle and
it's meant to kind of hit where the
rubber meets the road and that is
um
money
oh looks like we got to join hey we got
video
you can see your pretty face
i'm doing anything else yeah let me turn
this a little bit
that way so you can see the pretty my
handy dandy ear scratcher out too
okay good thing we didn't catch on that
so
um
what we're talking about today
is
how to how to avoid
payment mistakes so
mistakes in receiving payments and what
i'm talking about and what this has
come from is talking to several
different subs across the nation and
also reading through some facebook uh
forum complaints about getting paid
um i wanted to discuss some of the
common
mistakes from an installer standpoint
what you can do to protect yourself
a and b
what to do when you don't get paid
so
first off is
is
quality has to be there guys
i'm sorry but you cannot expect people
to pay you top dollar for work if you're
not giving them top dollar
uh quality
what's that it's an over a dollar period
you know yeah
you got it done and you you didn't have
top dollar and it doesn't mean you're
gonna get paid anything if the
customer's not happy if the client's not
happy
yeah so first off
do quality work i don't know how else to
say it
if you if you are deficient in skill you
need to get the training necessary to up
your skill level
don't jump into things this is another
common problem i found in kind of
researching for this episode is
guys are jumping into systems or
new processes of flooring new new things
that they have not received training on
if you've only ever done 12 by 24 being
the largest format ceramic tile you've
ever done don't jump in and accept
projects
where it's a two foot by
five foot tile or three you know three
foot by five foot panel engaged
porcelain panels
get the ding training first make sure
you know what you're doing now
one thing
look you might accept it in the jobs
several months down the road and you can
get the training in between accepting a
job that has that and and actually doing
it that's fine but you have to have the
training
uh for
systems that you've not
done before or been properly trained on
so i have found
guys you know they'll even admit it if
you read through some of the the
results of the
of of what what what the guys say saying
a facebook forum post of well
yeah it wasn't perfect but
okay well you already told me why you
didn't get paid
right
when you say
yeah you're saying but we already know
just by that comment that there's
there's some deficiencies on the
installation quality right and there's a
lot of guys that post on there too not
just guys but there's a lot of people
that post on there too about you know
taking pictures of other people's work
and then you know putting them down and
stuff like that and i just i always
chime in and they probably got what they
paid for
and yeah i mean
when you don't know how to how to price
your stuff it's because you probably
don't really know what you're doing with
it anyways oh what goes into it yeah
yeah that's another good that's a good
time and later that goes into it good
point daniel because
if you're asking how much it should cost
to install a flooring you probably
shouldn't be installing that flooring
if you if you if you don't have enough
experience to know what your costs are
going to be and then and then mark that
up or you know make sure you're making a
profit you probably shouldn't be
installing that flooring
right and then you said you know you
mentioned training when you don't know
how to to work with a certain material
and you know sometimes you're not going
to make that training right but
we've
spent many many hours
in the warehouse with the new material
playing with it out there trying to see
what can go wrong with it before we
actually go on a job site and install it
i mean we got a whole shower system
in our bathroom over here at the office
that
i'm not gonna go
and put this in someone's house when i
don't know how it's gonna react with
stuff yeah this is this is the first
well if you're already highly trained
you're already
very proficient at most flooring
that's a good method right there is at
least get the the experience with it put
your hands on it mess around with it do
it you know
experiment with it when money's not on
the line uh that's that's a form of
training yourself
once you've got your foundation of
knowledge built and your your foundation
of installation
uh
training
you know done then you can use that
method of messing with the flooring
um
messing with different adhesives
whatever the situation is so a
number one on this subject is make sure
you know what you're doing and you do
good quality work
that is
then you have a lot of tools at your
disposal if someone's just not paying
you
uh
so quality first guys second
try to do work with good people like
vet the people you're doing business
with
uh if you're working for a shop make
sure it's a good job
in the go career network we only
onboard
companies that have great reputations
for taking care of their their
installation
professionals so
um
if you're working outside that's fine my
point is do some do some research make
sure the company you're working for
has a good history of payment a good
history of paying their subs on time and
a good history of taking care of their
install professionals so
um that that's the next point i would
make
and um
you know another thing is make sure it's
in writing
a work order um you know obviously go
career is a digital uh platform that the
work orders are all
mutually agreed upon
they're all signed off and and digital
contracts so to speak but if you're not
using that at least make sure you have
some form of a contract or a written
proposal that's signed off and accepted
so that you have
documentation of what
you have agreed upon
from what you're going to provide
and that matches what they're paying
yet you have to have that
once
do you guys have any i mean do you
handshake deals are tough to do right
like what's your guys's input on that
shouldn't we have
if you don't have a contract if you're
if you're working with a gc and that gc
sends you a contract that's that's
that's one thing but say you're working
with a flooring company
and uh like a store or something is
there a work order or something that
they're giving you that lays out what
you're supposed to do and then the the
price for that
that's 101 right
yeah we have
we have people that we've worked with
for 20 years right like i've known for
20 years um we have we still have email
trails and agreements between
that as a relationship as
as
the handshake is almost a thing of the
past i'm not even going to lie like
if it's between
you putting yourself in a bad spot or
your friend or someone else putting
themselves in a position to lose their
their
their job their career or that that
other company put themselves in a bad
position
they're gonna
throw you under the bus no matter who it
is um we've been fortunate to work with
some people who are still not like that
right but we we meet in the middle
something goes wrong we meet in the
middle and we're okay with that
um
a lot of the beginning of the contracts
for those guys are
verbal or with a handshake but then the
process is still started
where we have email training
documentation and signatures and
approvals
we still have all that that's very and
all that was it kind of learned in the
beginning
getting burned right because
you don't you go into it not knowing
exactly how to do things and then
it's like
it becomes a he said she said type of
thing where it's like well i never gave
you approval for that i was literally on
the phone with you and you said i do
this and then when you don't have things
written down set in stone
uh you know email me back and let me
know that this is approved
you know you you have to have that paper
trail even if you don't have a contract
signed or a work order or something is
missing from the work order you got to
have that that kind of
communication
written down so that way you can refer
to it later
yeah you got to have something you got
to have something that that
in my opinion
like best practice is making sure that
you have
this is the scope this is what i'm doing
and then this is the cost for that
anything in excess of this
is and and we know
some of those
variables so for example
if you put a quote together and you send
it to a customer or
the someone sends you a work order
and you're you're evaluating that work
order from a store
you know the variables you know that
like make sure that say if you're doing
a resilient floor
skim coating is not on your work order
make sure that it's clear
i
skim coding will be additional you know
or something of that nature it's really
just protecting yourself
make the scope of work match the price
before you move forward whether it's an
email some some way of of having
reference back i read a lot of posts i
went through a lot of old stuff
in facebook to look through and a lot of
it's like oh i did this extra work and
they don't want to pay me for it
well i mean
make sure you have written documentation
proving that it's an added cost that is
not
part of the original work order and you
you have at least that first piece of
protection on yourself almost
everybody's got a camera now
so i mean
we play games so we learned the hard way
right we learned the hard way
a couple of times working with the same
company thinking that things weren't
going to happen the same way
and you know after the the second time
we took a very big hit to us at that
time was a very big hit and that was it
that
would
we have some clients same way in the in
the flooring company where
um we'd done work with them for many
years and it was it was typically on
change order work
if we didn't document it right it was it
was hell getting paid and sometimes we
didn't we had we went through the same
thing and that's why i'm here is to try
to and you guys are here we're just
trying to um uh
bring up
our experiences and hopefully
prevent some new guys from
really taking hits like that because
some of those can take you out of
business
yeah i mean some of them can put you in
the in the old bankruptcy
column and it's important to
to document
have some some paper trail of some sort
um you know i i try not to plug go
carrera every time i'm on a
one of the huddles but the fact is is
having an equitable system to where
here's the offer you accept the offer as
is
and then it gets awarded that's an
equitable system
also if i have a change order that i i
want you guys to do i have to send it
through the system and you have to
approve you have to accept it or
vice versa the the installer has
additional work they have to
submit a change order to the company and
then the company has to accept it just
don't do the work until it's accepted
that if you're doing paper that's fine
as well but
if you do more work than what's on the
original agreed upon uh amount
get something in writing
i don't even if you
write it on
notebook paper and get the customer to
sign it anything is better than nothing
the key is to really have an equitable
agreement and if it's if it's agreed
upon
and you did a good quality job
and then they don't want to pay
now we can talk about some tools that
the
you know legal ways of uh
you know putting yourself in a good
position
to be able to
uh collect that money
now whether that's a homeowner or a
a business and some of these things that
we'll talk about
you gotta you have to make a business
decision
uh one of them obviously is mechanics
liens
they're very easy to file
the problem is is if you do a ton of
work for that particular client
do you really want to lean their
property
right
what does that do for your long-term
relationship so i would say first step
is have a a calm
professional conversation with the
person and ask what your deficiencies
are and what it will take for you to for
them to release payment to you
another good method
just to digress a minute or
just a second here is you know getting
money down on work is also if it's a new
client even in commercial a lot of times
if it's a new client that's a smaller
client we'll ask for 50 down
and we get that probably good 60 70
percent of the time they'll agree to
that and we just explained to him that
you're a brand new client we've never
worked with you before we need to have
some security in this position so
exactly
what we've been doing there's there's
there's nothing
there's no shame especially in the in
the commercial world you get a bunch of
companies that are bidding all over the
us and then they reach out to you from
you know new yorkers or something and
they're like hey we want you to do this
job all right well here's my numbers and
i'm gonna need 50 up front and if they
say no right off the bat it's like
sounds like uh you should probably go
elsewhere
yeah i'll usually have a conversation
with them and explain to them why and
then if they
have the same stance like we don't do
that yeah i say well we don't do that
either
you know
we don't do business with new clients
out of state
uh on a on a buffalo wild wings to
we're not gonna just jump in and expend
resources and and money
with no guarantee and um
a lot of times they'll agree they'll
understand uh if you're working with a
good company they get it um
so
that that goes into you know you guys
have
experience with uh placing liens have
you guys done that in the past
we have not pretty close recently but we
have not exercised that because you only
have a certain window yeah
yeah so the rules to that
is not if
and if this varies per state so i just
got back from utah to get our
contractors license in utah because we
got some work up there
uh in utah for example you have to
uh
file for your
like at the very beginning of a job
within
uh i believe it's 30 days of starting
the job you have to
file
uh that you have lien rights basically
so you're filing that you have an
equitable position in that project
that's not a lien it's not an intent to
lean or anything it's just putting it on
a directory that you are one of the
people working on that project that and
you expect to be paid for the work that
you're doing
that um
in most states and please look at your
local lien
rights engage an attorney
this i'm not giving uh you know
attorney advice i'm not an attorney i
can just speak from my experience
uh and we work all over the nation so i
know uh one thing for sure it varies per
state lean rights are a state uh
a a state mandate or a state ordinance
it's not a federal thing
so
but most of them one of the most common
things is you must file a lien within 90
days of the last work performed
so the last time you are on the job
performing work
you have to file a lien within 90 days
that's pretty
that's pretty um
pretty sticky isn't it when you're doing
commercial work
right and then i we went through um
i think it was our local chamber had
someone do a presentation on uh liens
and we were on there and they said that
you know here you actually have to file
an intense lien before you can actually
file a lien
yeah and that's the same way in oregon
in fact we're
we have our license up in oregon in
oregon you have to
file a notice of intent to lean
yes that's what it's called
right and that you have to follow that
within a certain time frame and then
if it doesn't get
taken care of within a certain time
frame you have to actually file the lien
now what is filing a lien and tell is
it's typically in most states pretty
easy to do the the idea is that they
want to protect the workers to not get
shafted on payments but
it does have time frame so you have to
do you have to be cognizant
of the time frames to do that
and mechanics liens actually can force a
property into foreclosure so most times
it's going to get taken care of at the
notice of intent to lean
level but you just have to know what
these time frames are for your state and
make sure that you're abiding by those
rules
now if you have open punch list item or
you did poor workmanship and they can
prove that they're going to win i mean
the bottom line is you gotta you gotta
make sure you get step one and two done
first you gotta be be
a professional in that particular
flooring product uh or discipline say
ceramic carpet hardwood or resilient
and then
then you have
something to stand on you got to build a
good foundation which is doing good
quality work after that
you do good work
turn in your billings and you're not
getting paid
uh these are just some some methods to
to help you get paid
now
from a general standpoint i'm always
going to call the customer first and try
to figure out what the deficiency is of
why they're not be why they're not
paying me
and
i even if they tell me well they have
not been paid
um
from in commercial there's a lot of this
which is i haven't been paid from the
owner yet right
and and
most commercial contracts in most states
allow pay when paid or pay if paid
clauses in the contract
you are then when you execute that
contract you're agreeing that
i i
understand that
the contracts abil contractors ability
to pay me is dependent upon their
ability to get paid from the owner right
that's a that's okay
uh we do it all the time and usually
it's like within five to seven days of
them receiving money from the owner
the the key here is that a lot of gc's
will tell you
oh i haven't been paid yet
just ask them the one question if they
have been paid and if they say they have
not asked them if you can call the
architect or
owner and i typically do it in a very
friendly way by saying hey
if some subcontractor pressure would
help you uh get paid i'm happy to make a
phone call to the
to the owner and and let them know that
i want paid as well
and
it shows them that i'm willing to take
the next step i'm willing to make that
phone call to the architect or to the
owner and ask
yeah
i want to know like
where the money's at why it hasn't been
released so i'm willing to make that
phone call to the account sorry
what's that
sorry
daniel's trying to technology right now
so you know making the phone call to
um
or or offering to make that phone call
let them know that you're willing to
continue on the collection process
and when that happens
that usually releases the money pretty
fast
now if they really haven't been paid i
have had
contractors say yeah absolutely go ahead
and then i
send an email or make a phone call to
the owner and i say hey this is paul
stewart i'm with stuart associates
i'm working on xyz project and and uh i
just want you to know we we're owed
money on this job and we don't want to
elevate this to the next level but we
need to be uh we need our position
covered the money that we've expended we
need to be paid for our
our work
i don't even care if it's a progress
payment you know at some point you can't
wait forever to get paid it costs money
to borrow money
right and that cost is going up every
month i mean the fed just raised the the
interest rates another uh 75 basis
points so
you know
if you're borrowing money when you to to
cover your your receivables
like you you have to do a lot of times
when you're in commercial um
you know realize that cost is there and
uh you can't wait forever for it so
any other dirty tricks of the trade that
you guys have used to kind of release
payment when an owner or or someone is
kind of being tough
i don't say it really dirty i mean we're
just very upfront very transparent um
you know
a lot of the conversations that we have
are up front to avoid that we we do have
that uh documentation we do have those
conversations up front because it's a
lot more uncomfortable to have them
when that time of need is there
so we we make sure that that is part of
the front end instead of worrying about
on the back end now and a lot of that is
because of
what went through what we've been
through it's just
it doesn't take me
any
any time to just i don't honestly speak
my mind because i'm really
laid back about it right it's just a
casual conference conversation you bring
it up you say hey these are my concerns
do we have to
um document this do we have any concerns
with these finances and you know it
it's really an upfront conversation to
avoid it at the end well then um
lately what has worked is
um
i just contact them and say hey
this is
you know this late
i'm getting ready to send it to
collections i'm giving you a you know
one last chance before i do
and
i mean when once i i just a few weeks
ago i sent you know
something out that said that and we were
paid within like two hours
yeah
it's funny i mean so it depends on who
you're working with but there are
there's plenty of instances out there
where
they want people want you to collect
um
i had a really old
receivable one time it just kind of
slipped through the
cracks and it wasn't for a huge amount
but
i collected and they were like you're
calling to collect on this
five months later and i'm like
well you knew you owed it
right i did the work
yeah i mean i don't i just there's no
limitation there i mean i did i provided
you a service just because i didn't call
and collect all heavy on you doesn't
mean that you don't pay me you could
have just paid me and this call would
have never happened oh well slipped
through the cracks or whatever so i
think that upfront it's impressive you
guys haven't ever
uh really leaned now i'd say over 20
some years we've leaned probably a
handful of times as all and um
some of those were just letters of
intent
um
even though kansas doesn't require you
to do a letter of intent to lean um we
we can send that anyway right that's
still a good practice like hey
we're owed this amount
and this is just
putting you on notice that we intend to
lean this project if we don't get paid
within and we'll put a time frame to it
that works and we do
you know 300 to 400 projects a year
to only have leaned you know a handful
or less of times as um
i think
lessons get learned fast just like you
guys said
i learned from early days of not getting
paid
you learn quick when your pocketbook
gets hit hard
so doing the first few steps
correctly being
providing good service good quality and
then
following up making sure your contract
whatever that means work order
handwritten
whatever that that's in place email
however you go about that it's got some
written documentation to back you up and
then
you know
you won't get there very often but i i'm
i am surprised on the facebook forums
and different forms you look at how
often this comes up now i will say this
is more of a homeowner thing that i've
noticed on the
from the social media post stuff
i don't
deal with homeowners that often and when
i do there's usually a professional
that's involved meaning an architect or
a designer i'm working with on the job
but direct with homeowner retail type
stuff i don't do so i don't have the
experience there but i can tell you
there's all it's always in your best
interest to make sure you have clear
work directions as far as what the
project entails and that you have a
price associated with that scope yeah
i don't care whether you're doing a
homeowner's house or a commercial
project
you know
a four million dollar commercial
flooring project
either way
clear scope
what's the cost what's the clear
exclusions
and then a good practice of making sure
that any changes that come about are
documented and
equitable or or agreed upon yeah and
it's just like the 50 um
down for the the the residential for the
homeowners like i don't think we touched
a residential project without having
that
ever yeah i think i think i would i
would that would be my
everyday practice now homeowners have
gotten burned too
uh there's plenty of of examples um
of because going on your local facebook
group stuff and search for for
contractor a bunch of them probably come
up about how people just take the money
and run
yeah
yeah so
they have reason to be skittish over the
50
thing
um look building your rape reputation
and your business uh is the best uh part
to that you got
i don't blame a homeowner for not
wanting to give 50 down if you've been
in business for six months and you have
no
references you have no reputation
you got to kind of understand their side
that's the struggle of being a new
business though
i don't know that there's a great way
around that
i know that i have heard some guys will
say
upon delivery of materials i need
they break it down
to where there's a schedule of values
that's what we call in commercial but if
you do that for your homeowner like this
is the cost of your materials with my
markup
cost of your labor with my markup for
each line item like maybe it's your your
bathroom tile this amount your
labors this amount and then in your
kitchen it's
your materials are this amount and your
labor's this amount and then when you
get your materials you can bill them
uh for those materials and recognize
your profit at that point for
uh the material
and then as you finish
your labor you build on a percentage
basis to that homeowner right um danny
sherman on facebook just said that he's
learned it's harder to get a deposit on
labor only but when supplying material
they always make sure that at least the
material is paid for up front so that
way you're not hit you know floating
that material cost and that's a valid
that's a valid point right there because
you i mean technically you haven't done
any labor on that project anyway so i
built for the labor but
i mean i guess it all depends on how
much flavor is actually going to be
involved too and how much
you know that ratio of
material to labor is
yeah if you're doing materials in labor
which i i mean if you're working direct
with a homeowner
hopefully you're able to supply some
materials for the job if not all
i would recommend that you put your
profit puts profit on that material
that profit will help pay for some of
the labor as you perform the job so
don't just cover your raw cost of
of the materials so if it costs you five
hundred dollars in in material don't
bill them 500 you know billing 580 or
whatever it is
so that you can have some profit to then
cover some of your your labor costs
whether it's yourself and and having a
little bit of money to pay yourself
while you're doing the work or if you
have helpers you're able to or other
installer
professionals then you have some some
profit that can help pay them while
you're doing the labor
right and uh rollins says that he gets
50 on all of his jobs like across the
board
so
i mean it's all on
know who you're dealing with right now
doing your research and stuff like we
mentioned you know in the beginning it's
know who you're dealing with that way
you know
what they're comfortable with as well
and then i mean especially when you
don't know them
that's when you really gotta be like all
right this is
this is what the way things need to be
don't let them talk you out of that
because usually that's when the times
you do get burned is when you're like
all right i'll do it this time and then
it's like
i did it this time
hindsight on that's 20 20 for sure
yeah the
the other thing i'd point out is that a
couple of the people who have commented
are known for quality
right so if you know who you are
you you can have some real confidence
and that you execute well you can have
real confidence in asking for the 50
um if a homeowner's a little bit on a
homeowner's side of things if they're a
little reluctant and you have a great
reputation and you can provide with some
references and things like that they're
going to be more apt to
you know come off that 50 down
or paying for the materials upon
delivery some way
you don't want to get so deep into a
project where you've got material labor
all this expenditure and and no money
coming in
been there done that and that's all like
uh you know back
when
the beginning stages when it was a
handshake yeah of course you know and
then you start investing your own money
a lot more time than you need to and
you're not getting compensated yet you
you do start getting nervous right but
it's
trial and error once you start getting
there you keep going and maybe
maybe we didn't reach out and ask enough
people information maybe you know we
didn't know enough people
that were in that position of trying to
grow a business to ask them how did they
operate uh yeah we learned a lot of
things on our own
well anytime you want to know something
i mean reach out like um
these guys
been doing
floor covering projects for a long time
i'm happy to uh
talk to any anybody new in the business
uh that that's trying to figure some
things out and
ways to to
you know protect yourself
i would also say that
non-payment is one thing i mean it even
kind of blows to have to uh forgive my
uh english there but it does it it sucks
to have to wait for a homeowner to get
the draw from their bank and then
process it and then cut you a check i
mean
even waiting on money costs money and
that's why i say make sure you got some
profit in your materials i do know
there's plenty of guys that just come
like the homeowner wants their receipt
and then they want to just pay their
receipt well make sure you're not
dealing with those homeowners i mean let
the no offense to
anyone but let the
scrubs do that work i guess i don't know
how else to say it the bottom line is
you have to be profitable if a homeowner
doesn't understand that you're going to
have profit you had to drive your truck
or your van your
your
your vehicle to go
materials
yeah there's
there's time and effort in getting those
materials picked up and taken to the
homeowner's house there has to be some
money coming in to do that and then
you know
like
i don't know why construction in general
is that way i think it's because the
uh the consumer has been burned so they
they have a
bit of a
reluctancy probably is part of it um
but there again i think that's building
your reputation up to where they feel
comfortable with you because they know
you're going to execute and they know
you're a good solid company
they'll be more apt to pay you if you're
if you're in that position
we're pretty fortunate to deal with a
lot of people like that um i know we've
been around for a little bit
uh but
you you when you start attracting that
certain demographic you it makes it
easier because the word of mouth travels
so
so fast and
you know we appreciate all the
the word about that that we've received
from the amount of work that we have now
have you guys in the past we're getting
close to the the end of this but i i
thought i'd ask have you in the past
like had somebody that is reluctant to
give you the down or
you know process the payment and then
you give them references and they find
out that
you're a good company and and
come off of that
um yeah we actually just had that with a
very large job actually um
and they well we never do that and our
contract just says this
and i'm like well in mine it says this
so like i understand you want me to
follow what your guidelines say but i
also have to protect myself and my
company right and if
if we can't
meet eye to eye on this then i'm sorry
i'm just going to move on and you're
going to move on um
and i think the job went away for a
while and a month later we got a phone
call back like
we're ready
yeah
i'm like i gotta i gotta redo my
proposal guys things have changed
and then i think there's been you know
more than just that sometimes they they
call us and then
you give them a price and then they keep
on looking around and they're we don't
even give them references they just call
other companies and then every single
other company they talk to oh this is
what's going on you should call these
guys
and it you know
your reputation is good when you're
calling other companies around here and
they send you back to us so it's like i
guess well that's a great position my
only point is
yeah that's a really good position to be
in uh it was an odd phone call to say
the least but i got a little bit of a
forwarding because the other installers
one of them actually called me said hey
they called me i said no way call jose
and
he he prepped me for it and when they
called i didn't use it to my advantage
right i just
normal conversation normal project
normal opportunity
we
made the best of it
so it looks like a question came through
how do i go about making a contract
to make sure
i start getting deals in writing what
are the most important things to put in
my contract
i
i'm not an attorney i've read millions
of contracts maybe not millions but
thousands for sure
i would say
get with an attorney and get a standard
form contract if you did want to write
your own you can get with the aia which
is the american institute of architects
and and kind of
go through their contract and pick and
choose the stuff you like because the
legality of their language in that
contract is going to be accurate and you
can kind of copy and paste some of the
things that you like leave the things
out that you don't
but as far as what's the most important
to put in my contract
listen
it can go as deep as detailed as you
want but the two most important things
in my opinion is scope and price
so what is the scope what are you
providing and then what is the cost to
provide that scope and making it clear
in the contract that this price is for
this scope
so that that would be the probably the
most important things to make sure if
you get an attorney to write it up it's
worth the investment probably cost five
or six hundred bucks couple hours of an
attorney's time for them to write a
custom contract for you to give to your
homeowner to your gcs to whatever if
you're a flooring company
um you a lot of times
we we provide a contract to our gcs uh
we have for when we work with our
subcontractors we have a master
subcontract agreement that they sign and
that master subcontract agreement covers
all the particulars that come across in
a commercial project so it's really
that's going to be really detailed to
your uh specific business and how you
like to operate but the two points that
obviously i
you can't do without is the scope and
the money
right and then make sure you you start
listing your exclusions too because
well i think we we list exclusions and
then in there too it also says that if
it's not listed on this proposal it's
not included yeah
good point there's a lot of times where
people are like well i thought this was
included well
no
it's not
we tried to make it so that way
everybody can read it right like um
there's a lot of
uh legal uh verbiage that gets tossed
around but when we have the the template
and then we customize it by what's
excluded because of a walkthrough
because of what we talked about on the
phone
so we try to put those smaller details
in there so it isn't so broad in the
terms but
yeah that's a good point jose like if
you are going to create a contract you i
i would say don't make it so doggone
complicated that they need a law degree
to read it
tell your
you know so it does depend on your
business i mean i get contracts for
especially on like our government work
you know i'll read through it and it'll
be that thick
yeah
but i a lot of times we'll just send it
to the attorney to to want over the
thing as well
so
but if you're providing contracts to
homeowners or you're providing contracts
to
you know general contractors
um
scope money and very good point guys
exclusions so you're telling them what's
in it and you're telling them what it
specifically is not in it
um
and another thing is you know
just kind of going over the basics right
make sure there's an expiration date on
there danny just said that his uh
estimates are
were good for 30 days
it's hard to even hold that right now
i know right make sure there's an
expiration date on it and make sure that
you have your payment terms in there
because when they don't know when
they're supposed to pay you
then that's kind of when
people will say well it slipped my mind
it fell through the cracks well you knew
as soon as i turned it in that you know
payments due on receipt or there's a net
50
you know stuff like that yeah well
that's a good point when i say money i
mean all things money payment terms so
that's good good point i'm glad danny
brought that up is like
is it net
10 net due upon receipt whatever that is
uh just make it clear what you're
expecting uh from money
uh from your from your client
um and then obviously
again the scope and the exclusions um
it's hard it it's hard to get out of it
at that point you know what i mean
you did you did a good job uh most most
people if you have a contract structured
in that way again get with an attorney
if you need a contract that's what i
would recommend
um
none of us here claiming to be attorneys
we just recontracts quite a bit so we
kind of understand them um i would say
you know those two things uh those few
things we just discussed are our most
important and then you know it's a good
place to start and and you're you're
always gonna be tweaking it right you're
gonna go through something
just like anything else you're gonna be
like ooh
if that was in there i probably wouldn't
had to go through this so let me include
that in everything and you know some of
what's in there isn't gonna apply to
every customer but you still keep it in
there that way
you're not
tailoring every single time even though
you are tweaking you don't want to have
things tailored you want to be
streamlined with what you're putting in
there too
ours has evolved so much and it's
simpler it's not long it's simple
well there we go
i know that um this has been a problem
for a lot of installers a lot of uh
flooring companies so i hope you guys
found value
in the conversation today with the guys
um we've been through it we've lost
money both of us i know
we've made some adjustments hopefully
this helps you to understand one thing i
would say
don't think that oh i'm too small to to
start doing this this is one of those
deals that
number one it'll make you um
you're setting yourself up to be bigger
by doing it early
operate like you're bigger than you are
so don't think you're too small to have
contracts like you could be a one-man
show if you're doing homeowner work i'd
be having a contract it's a good
investment
so
with that uh thanks for joining us here
on huddle number 10. uh jose and daniel
thank you guys again i appreciate you
and um for all those on go career
network uh we have some really exciting
stuff coming down the pipe so
stay tuned and uh and if you guys
make sure you get your free installer
profile set up because
yes
yeah there's a lot of opportunity
so it's
no risk
cancel any time type deal get on get
your free profile uh one feature that
came out uh that we've just not done a
very good job of promoting
uh is
the merchant account if you're on the go
career network you can invoice uh you
can accept credit cards from anybody
from your side jobs from your aunt from
your
gcs if if you got a gc that's like hey i
ain't got the money say well i'll accept
credit cards you cover the convenience
fee of four percent boom
so it's a it's a financial tool that
you're able to use just by being having
a free profile on go query you can now
accept credit cards i mean that's that's
a a huge value i think
that is huge i mean there's so many guys
out there that are always asking
questions you know
who do you use how do you implement that
and when you have it you know in your
pocket and all you got to do is
you know punch in some numbers it's just
streamlines the whole process
yeah and it's super easy i mean we've
processed i had a guy one of our
installers um
who does work on the go career network
uh
but i hired him to paint the outside of
our building i didn't
it's a
it's not a job so i didn't send him a go
career work order obviously but he
billed me right through the merchant
account i paid him with credit card for
it
so
it comes in real handy um
we we're going to do better at promoting
the features and new features coming out
so
um be on the lookout and i appreciate
everybody we'll catch you on next week's
huddle and thanks for the questions
comments and uh gentlemen thank you
again
yeah no problem we'll see you guys uh
next week
awesome oh everybody get down to cfi
convention
august 2nd that's where we're going to
be next week yeah i think we might even
all be on the trying to be on the same
screen next week huh yeah we'll all be
together so yeah come down and see us
it's a it's a great event um you'll
learn a lot you'll make a lot of good
connections so get down to the cfi
convention it's in orlando
and uh hell it's beautiful down there if
nothing else so hopefully uh we'll get
to meet some of you guys and looking
forward to that too so
with that all right we'll
chat with you guys later all right see
you all right bye guys
you
The Huddle - Episode 9 - Tackling a Project; Problems and Solutions
This week Daniel and Jose discuss common problems that happen during a project and the most effect ways to manage and solve them.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey guys
thanks for joining us again this week
i'm daniel gonzalez preferred flooring
we got
jose
and john this week with us
we're gonna be talking about uh
tackling projects you know every project
has its own issues and how to deal with
those
uh we've been on a few of them lately
that
were
ridiculous
so yeah the little
little less delightful projects always
make you appreciate the ones that run
smooth that's for sure
as you notice paul isn't here this week
he's uh
working
or something i don't know
so
so bear with us because that dude he's
really good at getting the right
questions and getting everything started
so it's gonna be our first time trying
to get everything rolling by ourselves
so
um please feel free to chime in again
you can see any messages or any
questions you guys have but
um the only thing that we have to go off
of are items that
that we've experienced and that we've
encountered and uh we've had it we've
had uh quite the roller coaster the last
couple months with
the amount of work that we've been
receiving and performing and
having to scatter the guys and you know
there's just been a lot of uh
a lot of issues from uh logistics to
scheduling to
the things that they can hear us on
false expectations uh uh set by uh
either the the salesman
uh for
the store that we're working with or
[Music]
what we're running into a lot lately is
uh
the youtube educated clients
we're not getting any um oh no the mic's
working it's just uh
these two are usually when paul is
talking but those aren't going to be
working today anyways
okay
so i guess go ahead daniel get started
on some of the
issues that we've seen
oh man we do
quite a bit of hospital work and lately
what we've been running into is uh
time constraints right so
you get into a hospital and especially
when you're doing hallways they they
give you a certain time frame and you
gotta start at this time you got to be
done at this time it has to be walkable
and uh
comes into a little bit of an issue
especially when the that hospital you
know once you're on site you're already
there starting and then they're like oh
by the way
instead of
having this walkable at 8am you only
have until 6am now and it's like
all right what can we do to to start
mitigating that and
one of the focuses that i want to talk
about today is
getting to know your your reps right so
this is
this is the brand that we use our rep is
amazing and
that's one of the the main reasons why
we use that brand is because if i call
them right now i know i'm gonna get
you know a text message or a phone call
back within a few minutes
because either he he's busy right now or
he's gonna answer and lead me through my
issues
so
getting to know your reps is really
really important um not only
do
do they have all the information
but you may think that you have to do
things a certain way and
it's totally different i mean that's
what we've realized
throughout the past few years is okay
maybe uh
maybe we don't know everything and
that's kind of how you gotta start
approaching things and even when we do
think or actually know that
the process that we have to do it's
really reassuring that you know he's
just a phone call away saying well
you already know what's going on you
don't really have to call me but
i just need to make sure that everything
is going to be done right
so it's the same thing too like um
when you have your crew on site
um and they call they call you or like
our crew calls us
um
it's uh
reassuring that you're
making sure that you're taking those
necessary steps because with the amount
that our products change it's
it's hard to feel or say that you you do
understand the process
when you know it might have been three
four six months since the last time you
might have looked at some of the uh
information on the the back of a bucket
of adhesive or looked at some of the
installation specs or some of the
requirements
um
that'll help in in those scenarios is
reassuring that you have someone to call
we have someone to call um you know we
we don't know everything and um
we try to know a lot about
everything but we do we it's hard to
keep up
so
we just gotta
to know that
i mean even if you wanted to call us and
just call someone to to get that
reassurance that the project
the issues that you're having on that
project
there are solutions you just need to
know which ones to make
so
uh
a lot of people don't know this guy
right here this guy's job
he he helps us john curtis helps us out
with our day to day
um and he he tackles a lot of those
those pictures for the managers
um a lot of the day-to-day issues that
we might not have
time to take care of but he's really
good with people he's really really good
with with time management and he's got a
great skill set with helping uh
helping the guys get kind of out of the
rut that they're in and that you can get
in when um
when you face some of these issues day
to day on a project as far as uh
scheduling or
unforeseen conditions and
it's pretty good at helping us organize
it you have anything you want to add to
any of what we're talking about john
um so far i'm just kind of taking it in
and
see where i can chime in
so
the hospital project that we've been
talking about um
the time constraints right so we've been
doing a lot more self-leveling lately
not only is it going to give us a better
overall
finished product
but we've noticed that it's really
underutilized in the industry and
that
not only is it going to save time no you
you can't skim it and start installing
that day
but
it is saving the time from having to do
multiple skim coats and skin weight skin
weight this way you're just going there
you're
you're doing the system underneath the
the self leveler and then you're you're
pouring and leave and come back uh
tomorrow and hit the ground running um
we've had multiple multiple projects
that have happened this way and
our reps have been amazing to to help us
out with it um
that's that's just one aspect of an
issue that can pop up on the job site
you know there's multiple issues these
guys have been dealing with scheduling
like crazy lately because commercial
projects like to
to move all over the place
yeah
that's the thing too is like uh i'm
gonna try to play like uh the um
the outsider looking in here but uh as
far as like uh managing
employees and skill sets
where are people on that
um
daniel what what are your views on that
john what are your views on that
um
do you guys
having it having to know when
when and where to put certain people yep
it's always a i think it's always a
struggle because
there's always going to be you know
those new guys that
that regardless of uh where you kind of
send them
there there are going to be times
throughout the day where they're going
to
essentially just be standing around
doing nothing right
but
that's when
you got a you got to kind of take them
under your wing and
kind of just explain to them what you're
doing while you're doing it
as far as being knowing where to send
them sometimes it's flip of the coin
yeah it's a it's a crapshoot
like i hope this works out for the best
in my mind i this is going to work out
and
it actually does in reality is
rapture
a lot of variables you know so so i
think
we've only ran at most uh 12 guys total
right
all right not including wow
before
right
um not including like a subset that
worked for us at the same time that we
have other projects going on but
um you know that's some people only run
two some people run 12 some people run
hundreds i mean
i'd like to pick everybody's brain i'd
like to know what you guys do on all
that
how do you guys uh
classify and organize those as a
subcontractor versus employee
um you know this is this is kind of an
open format any any information or any
questions you guys have would be great
to hear on that
um
because i'd like to learn to be honest
with you i'd like to learn a little bit
more
on how to handle that how to approach it
um
another thing that goes hand in hand
with that is the logistics right the
materials
the tools what equipment
are you set up to deliver your own
material you set up to deliver your own
heavy equipment when you need it for
uh removal or for installs um
there is a drop shipment of material
going to site um
are you guys uh receiving and then
bringing it to site handling it multiple
times
you know um
how does how does that go about
what
challenges do you guys face and what
what way do you guys solve some of those
logistic issues
and then just you know kind of moving on
we can all
we can talk about
you know something that no floor guy
ever really wants to talk about right is
asbestos
what do you
what what do you do when as best as you
find it right
first things first is you got to get it
tested because no one can just look at
something and know that it's asbestos
yeah
do you know where the closest testing
sites are
um is it something you have to mail in
something local must be turnaround time
you know do you know the requirements as
far as uh
how much material they need for testing
how much of the adhesive they might need
for testing
on top of that um
are they qualified are they certified
um how busy are they
what's your time frame
um there's just a lot of uh
there's a lot of variables when it comes
to that as an issue and i know that
everybody handles it a little bit
differently but um
we've just just seen a lot of guys on
the sites right and they they go in
there and they're they take a picture or
something and they're like hey do you
guys think
this is
this is asbestos and it's like go get it
tested well they don't want to get it
tested and it's like it's always the
runaround but
um i think the most recent one was
someone asking
about encapsulating it but
doing a direct glue right over it and
setting this guy up for failure setting
the next guy up for failure right but
i mean where does where does the
liability
fall within that and we've we've taken
the
you used to be i don't are you still
certified for the abatement
not anymore i haven't had a refresher
okay
but but when you go through you know
these types of awareness classes and
certification classes they they tell you
right like
that this is why you can't do it because
the next guy that goes to pull this up
now you just adhered something to it
they're gonna start pulling it up and
there's that chance of it coming up it's
flying up in there and then it's in the
air
already right
yeah it's not fair
it's not fair to them so
yeah i mean if the if the paper trail is
there
you could be liable for it and a lot of
people just
other installers don't realize the risk
that they're putting themselves at when
they do things like this and the only
thing that i can do is kind of chime in
and say hey this is what we talked about
when we were
you know going through these classes and
this is
what was said and they come back
with some ridiculous stuff like uh
what did he say
one of these these one hour or these 10
talks uh
while you're loading up carpet or
something and that they just don't
realize that they're
there there are classes out there that
you can take to
broaden your knowledge on certain
aspects of things and
you kind of gotta
be able to roll with that and know that
you don't know everything
you just
educate yourself that there's you know
you don't have to take a class but do
some reading educate yourself on it
um try to prevent having
some of those issues you don't want to
be held responsible for
for making any vests up airborne to work
it affects someone and maybe the future
health of their child or themselves
so not only the air you can carry it on
your clothes take it home with the
others not only that each
15 years ago when i did take the
certification class i think each
pebble size that you don't have
documented to the epa that you're
updating that they find
dime sized pieces of 5 000
each one so if you got a bag or that's
in your
in your shoes or trash can or yeah
anywhere
so
that was that was a while ago so i'm
sure
the fines are a lot higher right
these guys a lot of these guys are boss
tells them to go rip this up and they
have no idea what they're even hey that
was going to be that i was one of them
i remember when i first started doing
flooring we had races to see who can pop
the rose first
why do you think i sound like this
no that's not that's not that's not the
reason
i could probably sell that one for a
buck
but you know the solution to that to
that problem is uh
get it tested start there that's
worry about the abatement later let's
see if it's hot first don't ever let
anybody talk you into doing something
that you're not comfortable
we um
that was the beginning of the end of a
relationship um
actually for us is
we were asked to do an install
at a school and it was over uh nine by
nine which they told us tested positive
you know it was hot
and we got there and everything was
hollow um it was platforms it was in the
choir room um or if it was a player
right yeah
and
i remember tapping on the floor and i
was like man like
i don't think we can stick to this and i
think we're putting down candace
and
so i i told david said you know i'm
gonna make a phone call i don't know if
they know about this so i called and
they said yeah we knew about that um
just install over
and i was like well
you know we gotta
stick it and then we gotta double cut it
and then i gotta pull
the the bottom piece out and it could
pull the tile up and that like i don't
think you understand that that's what
can happen and then
i'm responsible not you no that's they
know that's the way we got to go and
daniel and i had like it wasn't even
that long of a talk i think we
we sat back for about five minutes
talked about it and decided to walk away
from that job
um i think we left with our guys with
nothing to do for the rest of the week
because of that
i'm pretty sure we made it up to them
but
i couldn't oh in high school no i don't
remember what it was it was out in
greenville i do know that
um but
sometimes you get to make decisions that
uh
might not seem like the right one for
you
um but you know it's not just you have
to worry about when it comes to that
type of
material that should be removed by a
professional
um
what about um
and we're kind of scattered guys just
just just to be clear i know that
there's so many issues that can happen
on a job site
and most of our issues are going to be
geared more towards commercial
so if there is anybody out there who is
primarily residential and you have
uh
some issues that you've come across
please chime in text
i don't know how to read what's going on
on the screen right now um but
please feel free to ask any questions um
what about uh like
change order issues and uh you know when
they make changes on the fly
does everybody or or
i know that have something to a way to
track everything that's going on yeah
because like
we just we're handling that right now
this is getting really
really hard to deal with um and
you know
we have our we sell our own and we do
our own installs and then we also still
install for
for other uh
flooring stores um
but
some of the older
gentlemen i would say you know you get a
little bit old school
but don't necessarily
have all the documents in place uh that
make it easier so we gotta kind of like
track everything from
uh we have to ask our guys to track and
so if they missed something and then we
go back to the other company and see if
they have the information
so and there's change orders and ads in
between all of that and
um
things are going to get lost it's to get
lost but
on whose end you know you're going to
lose on yours
they can lose on theirs
you know
how do you guys take care
of tracking projects uh whether they're
yours or they're not
do you guys uh have your employees track
it um change orders
how does everybody work that out how do
you implement that
there's no one to answer you right now
but
it's just a general question to shoot
you though yeah that somebody can answer
that at some point and plus it's going
to other social media sites so i know
that's what i'm just saying yeah but i
was going to say you know you always
have to have
something right to keep track of it
because if you look at um
the
verbiage and the contracts that you get
it's always
change orders have to be approved before
you can start the work because if you
start the work and start doing that and
then that change order isn't improved
then you're just
doing something for free and no one
wants to work for free right or putting
yourself in a situation where you're
going to be short
at the end of the project on material
because the changes in the middle of the
project and they want you to add
a conference room
of the same material that you're running
down a corridor
just one of those scenarios
and then also if you do a lot of work
for stores um
it's inevitable you're gonna end up
running short on a project right it
happens
probably more times than sales people
like to admit
um
one thing is
do don't
go to the customer right away contact
the salesman to see
what's going on
because uh as we've learned some of
these salesmen just keep stuff in the
warehouse
has like a security measure or something
and
five boxes magically pop up out of thin
air
so
definitely have a relationship with your
salesman to to where you can
communicate like that and not throw them
under the bus
and salesman man
let them know that you have something
extra let them know that it's a stock
material that that you sold the client
um in case they are running short or
running tight so they don't
have to hit their head against the wall
making sure that they're using every
square inch of every piece
we tend to do that
as much as we possibly can anyway but
not everybody is as thoughtful um
there's a lot of a lot of waste involved
and then the the old school guys right
because everything
um
that we've been doing in that that we've
seen done in a lot of the places that we
do work for
is done electronically so they're
measuring electronically they're doing
takeoffs and stuff and
it's hard for
some people to to
trust that
we've been in that situation where it's
all right
well
there's
if i'm short it's the computer's fault
but things you know things change on job
sites we were on one where they took out
radiators that were
you know sitting
on the floor next to a wall and then
it's like all right well that radiator
was out one foot and that
that whole space is you know a couple
hundred feet so you have one foot by
you know 200 feet that adds up to a lot
of square footage and you end up you
know
falling a few pieces short and it's like
it wasn't supposed to be like that but
it's uh gotta roll with the punches and
and get things done still
are your um
are the employees uh able to solve
problems uh on their own without
calling back to the office or our
leadership
uh whether it's your number one number
two number three
um how are those relationships um
if some if a client changes something on
the fly and they gotta work an
additional
hour or two hours are your guys
relationships well enough to trust that
they're going to make the right decision
to to save
the time for the next day or the rest of
the week or or to salvage our
relationship
um same thing with the subs i mean it's
just a little bit give and take right so
um
i would say that
if you are going to have any issues on
any job site i would say try to make
sure that your employees and the subs
are are definitely on the same page as
you and your your end goal is the same
um
because regardless if you are
on the project or not
you are trusting the employees there
with you or by themselves
to help you
come up with a solution and make the
right decisions
i guess uh what it really boils down to
is
open lines of communication all the time
with everyone um when there's issues on
the job site because
as an installer when you're on the job
site you don't wanna
it sucks that you gotta report these
kinds of things but you have to right
because
someone's got to pay for
all these issues that are coming up
and we just have to know and document
everything so that way
when it comes down to final billing
everyone's on the same page with
everything um
so as long as everyone's on the same
page everyone should be all good and
and the customer
should be happy at the end because
they've been involved with
everything
so communicate make sure uh
you get all
you have your your reps information so
that way you guys can communicate with
the clients
and that'll streamline everything
i think that's that's really all we have
for today today was going to be a super
quick one we just wanted to get on here
and make sure that we didn't miss miss a
week
since paul couldn't be here missy paul
you're you're really the one that uh the
brainchild
not that we didn't have enough time to
prepare but
um we can never be as prepared as that
guy sometimes this is what he likes to
do and and we definitely appreciate what
he does
so
there's i don't see anything coming
through so i we're just gonna
you know call it a week there and we'll
see you guys next week paul should be
back and
we'll hit the ground running again
i don't
i didn't even look what the
topic was for next week but
let me see if i have it here
might not have been uh
not only that is uh
the person on the other end of the the
screen is sick so i know she she should
be sleeping right now but instead she's
on here
hanging out with us
so we hope you feel better
all right guys
everyone have a good week
we'll see you next week
The Huddle - Episode 8 - How 2020 Changed the Industry
This week Paul talks with Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring discuss the crazy year that 2020 was. They cover their personal experiences, and the good and bad that came from it all.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up everyone and welcome to
the huddle where we discuss maintaining
forward progress in your following
career i'm paul stewart and i'm joined
as usual by jose and daniel with
preferred flooring
gentlemen how are you doing today
good
doing awesome pretty good
all right well you know we weren't doing
good we could probably tell you're doing
pretty good
yeah well it's busy and i know we're all
you know the standard line is uh trying
to keep up
but uh
kind of plays into today's topic pretty
well is you know
uh at one point uh a lot of us were
twiddling our thumbs so it's a welcomed
problem to have to try to keep up that
means we got business rolling and things
are rocking and
and uh
although with a lot of uncertainty
in the economy
fact is is a lot of people are very busy
so that's a good thing
and i'm glad you guys are so
this week we're going to talk about uh
how 2020 and the pandemic changed uh the
flooring industry
now
i don't really care to
really go through this
i don't know
negative all the all the bads i think
that you know with every
tough situation or negative situation uh
good comes out of it
and um are you guys stuck on
seeing the video
on your side
nope didn't even pop up okay very good
but it did pop up but then i
oh take it off
okay
dude daniel does a lot of clicking over
here he loses me pretty quick
so yeah this other screen is still stuck
on
there's on go creator screen share
all right well we'll let the
we'll let them take care of that we're
gonna get going um
here on
the positives what what came out of it
uh what are we doing different today
that um
really
you know we didn't expect uh i was going
to start it off with um
the rise of technology i mean the fact
is it kind of forced people through
their fear of technology i mean you
didn't really have a choice then to
learn zoom or
microsoft teams or google meet
um people that
were
that still had flip phones now have
smartphones because they're meeting on
zoom i mean i've had uh zoom calls with
with guys who uh you know still had a
flip phone and now they got a smartphone
so that they can uh be on zoom calls and
they know how to work the technology and
they would have never picked it up
ever picked up that piece of technology
without being forced to through
circumstances outside their own control
they didn't really have a choice
so a lot of the good stuff that's come
out of it i think is
obviously communication is is
heightened as long as the technology is
used correctly
i also believe that you know it's give
it's it's increased our ability to earn
so
you know if if you were sick if you're
sick but you feel well you're contagious
right at work you stay at home
uh you're you're you really kind of want
to work but you can't because you can't
go to the office well today you just
simply
yeah i mean it's it's gotten it moved so
fast over the last two years that it
doesn't even seem like that's a big deal
but if you think about it it's a it's
really huge just a few years back if you
had a sick kid
you would simply
stay at home with that kid and either
eat your pto up
uh or your vacation time whatever
company however you're set up at your
companies
um
or you know
pull on your pto or whatever
today if you have a sick kid and
everything's okay and you can still work
you just got to take you just got to be
there for them because they can't be in
daycare
your ability to earn is still there you
simply remote into your office or you
you have remote accesses people are go
to my pc uh surge during uh this whole
pandemic and
as well as like i said zoom and teams
and
and all the other communications uh
google meet
uh
so
it increased the ability to earn even if
you're not on site now even with the
installers uh our crews uh we've seen
it
a similar deal now you can't install
flooring remote but
we've had superintendents uh zoom in
with our
foreman of a project who may be sick to
communicate with the installers on site
and make sure the job's still going well
so that he had
video access to what's going on job site
so
you know it's really changed a lot of
things for the positive um what's your
guys's insight on that i mean
do you did you
[Music]
how many zoom calls did you have
beforehand i mean this today's huddle's
a prime example i'm in beautiful memphis
tennessee
working with the national client on a
program for the next five years
and
here i am
just like i was in my
office in uh my home city right
other than the backdrop you don't know
the difference uh it's pretty cool
so what what have you guys experienced
from that and how have you kind of
leveraged uh that
uh that wave of of uh communication
technology kind of centered around
communication really um
have you guys
experienced any of that or taken
advantage of some of these things
uh to to further your your business and
your guys's career
yeah it's actually um
been huge as far as
not needing to go
to like
a bunch of these on-site meetings i mean
especially commercially we're you know
traveling hour hour and a half and then
we're only going there for
an hour meeting and then you got that
drive back now it's a matter of jumping
on a call
get all the information you know they do
screen sharing and it's like
there you go i mean there's
and you got a recording of it
three three hours saved
it's true yeah that's an application for
sure that's what it did is
when you said technology yeah 100
technology
has kind of
taken over uh every industry because
everyone's relying on it um and because
of that
people started realizing that
some positions and some jobs don't
necessarily need a brick and mortar for
them to be stationary or we don't need
to go visit in person we can communicate
like we are now via email and people are
gathering more information
and sharing more information with more
people at one time
um
in one space like this
and then getting together and talking
about it
um
it puts everyone in a position for
success
without taking them away from their
responsibilities like you said the
downtime from the windshield man like i
i love that uh that you brought that up
daniel because um
there are a lot of
job meetings if you're in commercial
uh the commercial industry there there's
almost always gonna be a weekly meeting
on your major projects and that i didn't
even think of all the time that that
saved so thanks for bringing that up
we've we've got
uh the the uh example
the actual real life example of of
superintendents talking to foreman
also allows that foremen to to attend
the job meeting
uh still maintain kind of control of the
of the the flow of the install
and um still be there even if he's not
feeling well or he's got a family member
not feeling well or whatever um
so that's pretty cool and it saves rpms
from going to the job site just like you
said for a job meeting and maybe that
job's two or three hours away um
it's a huge time saver i mean
the technology can kind of
if you look at the social media side of
technology it can suck your
uh production away if you get drawn in
and you don't use it wisely but
uh and and video calling and things like
that can
some people can overuse it where uh you
know a face to face is more appropriate
but in the
in the vast majority of these situations
i believe that this technology
uh kind of
waved
um and
i know the technology was already there
but it
i think the thing that happened that
wave is that it forced people into it
yeah you know the guys that didn't want
to have anything to do with it were
forced to actually learn how to use it
they had to they had no choice and
because of that now you you i i believe
it really has made a positive impact in
a lot of ways
i don't know
one negative part of that though is
maybe you want to just take off when you
have a sick kid and be with them
and now the employer is somewhat
expecting you to still work right like
put your kid down and log in so i guess
that can cause some some work-life
balance issues but
but your uh example of
job foreman meetings is is huge um
what else uh
what else have you guys seen that like a
positive that came out of this
so um one thing that it added for us is
um you know we are obviously primarily
commercial but when we were creating
um
the residential aspect and then that
part started growing right we were
having some issues as far as
being able to receive those type of
accounts and justify them because we
don't have the showroom we don't have
our large children we don't have the
space to put displays down you know a
50-foot wall
um you know what i was trying to before
then is i was trying to do more of a
mobile
type
showroom where i would try to
consolidate samples bring a limited
amount with me so i'm not overwhelming
the client or myself
and all i did was help justify that um
like hey you guys like
i can't really do that because of this
like people don't want me in their home
anymore i gotta to ship small samples
directly to the clients now so all it
did was help us kind of restructure
um
what we were doing and our approach for
the residential aspect
and that carries over to some of the
commercial as well
yeah but that's a great point on um
the residential side there's been a
surge of companies uh redoing and
revamping their their websites to make
it friendlier for consumers to buy
online from their firm from their
company uh scheduling
that kind of thing
the
re the big surge on i was reading an
article in floor covering weekly about
mobile showrooms you know and and people
doing that uh meeting meeting homeowners
on zoom and they'll send dual samples so
they'll keep the sample and they'll send
the samples to the homeowner direct
i know that's happened where and and
then you both have the samples and you
meet on zoom for selection for their
home
it's really kind of crazy but uh yeah
it's it's created
well with gas prices you know through
the roof it's it's it helps save there
too
so that's that's an interesting take i'm
i've
i had a mobile showroom back in 2002
and we tried our our hand in residential
we do about probably 10
at my flooring company we probably do
like 10
residential projects a year tops on the
very top side so we're really just a
commercial uh contractor at this point
we did try our hand in residential um
but it is interesting to see
the the real
push even manufacturers with their um
there's more coming out with room scene
uh technology you know so you can take a
picture of your house and drop different
floorings in there and see what they
look like you can do that on commercial
as well and that's we've actually used
that some um so yeah all the all that
stuff you know lessens the miles on the
truck and and increases productivity
yeah
and then all it does is give you more
time to try to figure out a way to
mash in a little bit more because you
you have that extra time and um
you don't manage uh your time wisely
then you still produce yourself in a
situation
that's counterintuitive daniel you you
said you said manage your time wisely
and then uh before that is like we're
gonna mash some more in here it's funny
all the extra time you you uh saved
and find a way you find a way to put it
back to use yeah um
you know it also helped with like uh the
views like how important
family is how important the
uh employees family and you know time
away from
work um that's what kobe
really did that for us like
we ended up with a lot of extra time to
spend with family um and although we
make jokes about like oh man i can't
wait to get back to work i'm sick of
these kids or you know i'm sick of you
this is uh
you say that out of love you truly truly
do
but um
once you got once we got back to full
force
you're like man
really had
a good time hanging out with the kid
over or doing this they're having that
free time to um
do you feel like you almost reset that
that uh do you feel like it almost reset
that work life balance where you're like
you know
maybe i was working a little bit too
much pre-covered and and away from
family too much and
some of that time savings uh you can
reinvest back into family yeah it did um
it put into perspective uh the items
that the items you lose track of the
things you lose track of when you are
totally involved
in your own business you you do tend to
lose track of
of
things that you take for granted right
it's because it's there it's always
there it's set in stone but
um
it did kind of bring us back to reality
for a little bit
and you know the sucky part about the
whole thing is that once we restructure
started
getting with these new times and then
like you know the time management thing
and adding more back on
you know being busier anyway yeah you
get easier because now we're learning
new processes learning like for me new
technology and
now you get lost in it again but you
know we um
i mean you have us on on social media on
facebook we do spend quite a bit of time
outside of work with our family and you
know
a lot of sports yeah a lot of sports
yeah
yeah i almost feel like
it gave us a chance to
re-evaluate the whole
work versus family
i would say that
i'm probably as busy now as i've ever
been
um
but i you know i'm i'm out of town
um i'm gonna i'm for four days basically
and
i can zoom with family and
so even when you're away
and maybe
maybe i'm still as busy as ever like i
said but the fact is is you know i can i
can zoom in with my family and you know
have some time with them or face time uh
a lot of us use no knew this technology
was there but you you like i said it
kind of got forced down our throat and
uh we got better at it
i would used a lot of the technology
that was there a lot of the options uh
pre-covered but it certainly after
uh covered i've become more
proficient uh better prepared
to to
use it as a tool and i think that's the
key use it as a tool
to accomplish your goals whether or not
it's
family or or or business so it's kind of
we really we really seen that when we
were over there
with you right and there was one of your
your employees was out and it's like hey
we got this meeting these people are
joining via zoom
and then we do the same thing here now
with teams it's like hey we're i'm gonna
be
gone in the morning but i'm gonna be
driving so i'm just gonna
get on this call and we can still you
know hash everything out on the go
yeah
yep
yeah it's been kind of unique um
a unique aspect of it all um
so
outside of
technology
there's
you know we discussed kind of the impact
on family and how that's uh the the
positive side of that um
we also talked about how
we can be more proficient we can earn
more um
i i want to ask you
did this
whole thing now that you're on the back
we're on the back side of it there's a
bit of resurgence going on right now uh
i don't know about and different it's
kind of pocketed throughout the united
states we had we actually had five guys
down last week
um
the proficiency we had a pm that was
sick he was down for one day and like i
said he then he was able to
simply work from home and as as
effectively as if he was in the office
so that was pretty cool to see
um
but now that you're on the back side of
it
what if if we
i mean did we learn enough that if
something happens again we're better
prepared uh do you think the industry
overall i'm not just talking about your
company or my company if you look at
like
um
just the industry from
because during the pandemic there was no
trainings or no certifications going on
that's all opened back up
um
do you see any possibility that
uh the virtual training for flooring is
there any legs there is there any way
that we can leverage this
where
you can actually do some trainings uh
virtually with uh with actual flooring
skills is that a possibility or is it i
i think it is and it it's all based on
your skill level now right because
there's
if you think about it
i've gone on youtube
you've gone on youtube we go on there
and you you look at the stuff and you
know like we were talking about last
time it's you kind of got to go with
someone who knows what they're doing
right and you got to be the judge of
that but
you can learn a lot just from watching
and then when it comes to the actual
like
you know the hands-on training or an
actual certification that can always
come later a lot of the stuff that
um we tell the guys is just all
it's not even necessarily hands-on stuff
it's all the technical stuff behind why
you have to do a certain ways that's the
important part and that's the the thing
that kind of gets missed a lot because
i've been in certification where
you know they're they're one of the the
first questions asked was who knows what
f710 is
i'm the only one that raised my hand
and he's like oh it really doesn't it's
not important to you guys anyways and
i'm like whoa whoa i need to back that
up because it's very important to us
because the installer's always the one
that gets blamed for a job not going
right and a failure so if they don't
know what they're supposed to be doing
before they even start the job
then it's an issue already so
i think that
that once
we get things set up to the point to
where it is
online and you can go online and it's
you know what you watch a video and
you have to test
i mean
no one likes us right but that's that's
how you
make sure that you retain that
information
and
it could be a matter of you're watching
that video two or three times
but
i i think that the future of it has to
to get with the times and that's where
the times are going it's the technology
is there we have to start utilizing it
just like every other industry is
yeah there's
remote doctors uh that
you know
diagnose and prescribe over
zoom calls now i mean
uh tele-doctors uh you know and and zoom
you go to a doctor's appointment on zoom
i mean that that is a positive in a lot
of ways you're not going to
a medical clinic where you might get
something else might get sick from
someone else that's there and you have
something you know or you pass it on to
somebody else whatever
if you're sick um
yeah there's a lot of doctors doing
that's that kind of thing now and so i
asked that because
i mean if you can do something as
complex as
uh diagnosing a human condition and then
prescribing can we not
figure out how to
do some of the training online uh it
does whether it's a zoom uh a that that
ends up on uh youtube or a training
like you said daniel it's the mind stuff
that helped that you could do
i mean you can't build hand skills it's
my opinion you can't build hand skills
on you know video but what can do
is
why do you need to use xyz
type of adhesive for this type of
flooring and those
uh kind of chemical
issues that that you we have to address
every day as flooring installers
you can get that i i think that data can
be online and
and some of it is but
then test or or do a
on site for the hands-on version of that
and increase the number of maybe you
have to take a online course or a you
know
a video series and test at the end to
then qualify to get to your uh hands-on
piece of that or something but
i thought we ought to you know
with all this going on all the
uh the capabilities for for remoteness
uh and training remotely uh or doing
work remotely i thought it would be
valuable for us to just kind of
contemplate how can we
apply that now
uh when it comes to trainings and
certifications
uh those kinds of things i mean you can
have a classroom
on zoom or on
you know teams where
the instructor is teaching all right a
lot of colleges are doing that so surely
we can do some of that
and and and really increase the amount
of people that get involved and then you
can do an on-site in-person type
deal for hand skills only with the
precursor of finishing the video series
or something
let's just run a bunch of notes as we're
talking because i'm pretty sure that
there is a way to do it via zoom and
train somebody as long as the
communication you know ship out the same
material so you have a training packet
next to um you know
participant a b and c you ship out all
the same
uh material the same specs uh and you do
um a trainer with someone who's there
doing the hands-on multiple angles and
you can go through it live
live questions while they're you know
carpentering whether they're running a
row while they're seaming it up
you know it's just a matter of everyone
having the right tools everyone having
that uh the same material and you know
i'm sure that there's a way and and the
right tools are all based on person too
because i use tools that he doesn't even
like to use right you got to use what
you're comfortable with yeah
this subjective for sure
yeah
well
i think that's the biggest challenge is
uh you ship
you know
a set of but i mean what if
let me finish that thought you ship you
know the the materials to them for a
training but if they don't have the
tools
uh i guess you could do a whole package
with the whole thing
and package it into a bundle here's the
tools you're going to need for this
training along with the materials you're
going to need to go through the training
and
and uh i mean you can't ship 1200
welders but you can do some of the
basics and that's why you can't just
take away the person to person nor would
i ever want to do that i like
communicating with people in in
and
you know zoom is a tool not not a
replacement for
face to face but right even even in the
networking aspect it's
it's nice that you don't have to go to
the meetings and stuff but still the
networking events you get it's different
once you're there in person and talking
and you can actually be there and see
the body language of someone it yeah
it's it's completely different and that
that's what we've noticed too it's like
um
going to like chamber events and stuff
and
on online and then you go to the event
and it's like totally different
atmosphere but
you know those are two different things
the training you're just you're there
focusing on learning networking you're
there to actually meet and
and
talk about and open up to other people
yeah did you guys go to any of the
conventions or anything like that uh
that that that we're on
virtual convention center
cica we've been to a few of them yeah
i've done a couple of
them you know it's so easy to get
distracted on that too because you i
mean
you're sitting in front of the computer
you're not really 100 unplugging
and you know it's
i don't want to say it's not interactive
but
you have the chat that's the challenge
of it
that's the challenge of it is how do you
stay engaged how would you keep a
a new you know somebody you're trying to
teach something maybe it's not even a
new guy it's somebody who's really good
at resilient
and you know is uh because we have a
handful of guys that can lay sheet vinyl
flat lay sheet vinyl
if it's you know chemical weld flat lay
they can do it
that guy now wants to learn how to flash
cove heat well
can't you know how do you keep them and
so this guy may even have
you know go and invest in some tools and
have all the tools but how do you keep
them engaged i think that's one thing
we'd have to contemplate
uh for some if we're able to in um
induce the industry to do some of this
and help maybe we'll do something uh on
one of the huddles where we uh pilot
something where you guys have some
cameras set up and do a piece of it and
i have some cameras set up and i do a
piece of a of a of a training that would
be cool to kind of see what that turns
into
but
uh keeping people engaged i went to
several conferences
that were
the virtual conference and i can tell
you
that was
at best and i don't want to i'm not
trying to talk on anybody to set this
stuff up but at best
it was
um
informational
at best i didn't connect with anybody
the numbers went up a lot of the
organizations that set that stuff up
said well our our
setup was
the uh
we had a lot more participants
on the on the um
on the you know the virtual conference
you're gonna get a lot more and um
the engagement was super
bad i mean i even exhibited for go
carrera several of them and the
engagement was terrible
because people it was so easy to
somebody for somebody to come to your
virtual booth and they weren't really
there
you know on the other side of the screen
they weren't really there engaging with
you they just came to get the points
because the only way that the virtual
conferences could figure out how to
um
uh
really
uh
what am i trying to say like
make sure that the attendance was there
was to and and try to increase
engagement was to give people points for
going to other people's booths in the
trade show
the problem was it was so easy just to
go to a booth
and let and let your virtual self set
there while you're over here working on
something totally different and then go
to another booth and you weren't really
engaging in that
exhibitor's booth at all
and what we just said right there is an
example of
reaching a thousand people versus
reaching 10 people right if we're doing
something virtual and you're only
reaching out to 10 people you can
create a more personalized atmosphere
versus a generalized atmosphere if
you're reaching a thousand people
because you're not going to be able to
to engage individuals one by one on that
unless they're raising their hand and
trying to you know someone's got to sit
through the questions and make sure that
they're picking out what they feel are
the important ones
uh versus if it's 10 you can say
hey paul what do you think or hey dan
you're hey
that's a good insight it means think
about it
say we created uh with other industry
participants we were able to create some
training stuff online uh just
hypothetical here uh
i say room i should say remote not
online so live like now if we had
if we were doing a training we had 50
people on
just because the technology's there that
you're not going to be able to like you
said engage with 50 people so just
because you have the the capability of
having a thousand people
on your call
or on your training it doesn't mean
you're going to be able to
be more effective or train a thousand
people you really got to keep that back
down to 15 20 30. um
yeah so
i think that is
a a really good point that the virtual
doesn't mean
that you can just reach the world
effectively with your message or with
your training that's a good point
well uh okay so we're we're in this
thing about 30 minutes and uh i think uh
you know in my opinion we've touched on
some really cool stuff i contemplated
this for a while um whether or not this
was a
uh huddle-worthy topic but at the end of
the day
kind of talking about
uh i wanted to dig in your guys's brain
maybe see if any questions come through
that
that we can answer but i want to dig in
your guys brain how you use that wave of
technology to increase your business and
and do better and you guys you set it
out of the gate we're busier than ever
but we've saved a lot of time too the
assumption would be that we are working
um we're getting more done in less time
and possibly
uh
being more effective as long as we use
the tools correctly i mean we just
talked about how to use it incorrectly i
think uh but
you know
so i'm gonna i'm gonna open it up for
questions uh it looks like one came
through do you see any
uh new complications if any other
shutdowns happen due to covet
uh
read this new round is spreading faster
than any of the others so the question
is really do you have do you see any new
complications if another shutdown was to
happen
well i
my opinion i think there's going to be
new ones because it would it's um
although we've prepared a little it's
something like clown climbing mount
everest uh just because you did it once
doesn't mean there's not new
complications when you go to try to do
it again it's it's still gonna be a
battle but i do think we're better
prepared you know uh you learn on your
first
rise to the summit so to speak uh some
of the tools and equipment you need to
grab onto
to make your nest next ascent to everest
more uh safer
faster
and more productive and i think if we
see a bigger outbreak i think we're all
more
um
and uh you know have the tool set that
can help us get through it in a lot
faster better more productive manner um
but
um and that's i i'm not a doctor so i
don't know from a
it's not gonna be such a shock like it
was the last time last time it was just
a complete shutdown right like no one
was prepared for it no matter
what you say you were prepared for you
you couldn't prepare for that um
the labor aspect is totally different
because if it does hit and it affects
labor now we're already at a shortage
it's going to put us in
a way worse position than we were before
um
so you know
people might scramble to get projects
done because
their business has hinged on
the fact that they need to get up and
running they need to get their occupancy
uh license inspection you know so maybe
a wave of installers going to come in
and not necessarily know exactly what
they're doing
maybe more failures which is going to
put the mills back into a restructuring
program to try to make it easier to
install i don't know there's a lot of
different angles you can look at it um
but
we can only prepare for for what
we know and until we hit that
we
will never
that brings up a thought um
you know in the first one we had a lot
of
from a national perspective uh we
personally didn't experience this but
from a national perspective there was a
lot of older installers that decided to
call it quits like
it was time they were going to be down
and out of work they might as well go
ahead and retire
if another one happened i i would fear
that the one that the ones that held on
uh you know were two more years down the
road so somebody who was 58 at that time
may not have pulled the trigger someone
at 62 did so if we have another
resurgence that shut things down i could
see another
you know another wave of installers just
calling it quits and i'm gonna go ahead
and retire so i think if
that that just came to mind uh right at
this moment so i i would think that
would be a major complication especially
if it was uh extended but i would say
the new the new guidelines is like if
you get copic
stay home five days or 24 hours without
um tomorrow
uh 24 hours without fever and stay home
for five days right so it's a lot better
than if you came in within six feet of
somebody who had coveted you gotta pay
for two weeks 14 days right so it's
already gotten a lot better on how we
deal with things and hopefully you know
the
the the powers to be
kind of handle it a little bit
differently as well if there was a
new shutdown and the understanding
across the board is is a lot better too
like at first
we're like what okay
all right you got to go for two weeks or
whatever 14 days you've got to go for 10
days your kid oh man that means you're
on quarantine now too and then we have
to try to relay that information to
clients and they were like well i got to
get
this has got to get done well on the
flip side of that i think they've
actually um at least the gc's that we've
been doing work for have gotten
a lot better
when it comes to that stuff because not
only are they do they know that
when you get sick you're staying home
like
no ifs ands or buts about it like i
don't want you here if you're sick
and then two it's the
the labor shortage and it's not just us
it's everywhere right so manufacturing
you look at at the mills and they're
running in the same situations to where
they get people stick and then they run
behind
and
it's been
a struggle at times because it's like
all right i was supposed to get my
material right
on this day
now it's
we're we're coming up to it now i need
to find something else that looks like
this and then
all right daniel we're gonna
this is gonna turn into about a two-hour
podcast
they've just been really
more mindful when it comes to that stuff
and more open to possibilities of okay
we have to make this change in order to
at least try and keep this on on
deadline
yeah i think they're better prepared for
sure i you know i remember one job in
the
first surge where
like somebody on site
if somebody on site had it they shut the
entire job down i had a huge project the
entire job got shut down for three days
while they disinfected
the entire construction site
you know
that seems like crazy to me now but that
was normal like we had that happen
several times um
guys
just because there was a couple of guys
on the job site that had cove but they
would disinfect the entire site and
i'm no doctor i'm not gonna get into the
politics of all that but
today i feel like
the
what you just talked about daniel is bet
the better the general contractors and
owners being better prepared i think at
this point if something did come up
again um and then
like you guys like you said um
jose is that
we are
we're not going to be so caught off
guard that's for sure we have some
aspect of what to expect and they're
certainly going to be different uh
things that happen but we at least have
i i don't know i like the idea the the
analogy of climbing mount everest i mean
we did it once we kind of know what to
expect that doesn't mean it won't be
difficult the second time it's going to
be probably just as difficult it's just
you're better prepared and so
um you know you can execute better i
mean that's about a lie maybe we only
made it halfway up mount everest we just
haven't seen the peak yet you know
so
i guess i guess when
if that time comes um
we just have to take it take it as it
comes there's really nothing else we can
do
yep all right gentlemen we've come to
the end of the huddle thanks again for
joining us do we have any questions that
came in uh
through email or anything like that
we'll see if they if we
do
see here
i think that's it did you guys have
anything else
you wanted to say
no i'd like the conversation today and i
look forward to it again
okay guys awesome thanks a lot um
uh speaking of technology a little plug
for go carrera you know one of the
things there is
it it's it's taking labor onto a
digital platform it allows you to do
work anywhere um it also allows
for
i'm up here and or down here in memphis
dealing with the
client that client is extremely excited
that he's going to be able to have a
network of great installers
and and maintain
the consistency and the quality that he
expects at his at his facilities and uh
for us to facilitate that means it's got
to have the technology that allows uh
the work
the the the supply side the work to
connect to installers
and
we're working hard over here to bring a
ton of opportunity to our installer
network so if you're an installer on go
career network we really appreciate you
and opportunities uh are building and uh
we're excited to bring these uh these
opportunities to to not only
the installing community but there's got
to be flooring companies
that are on the network to be able to
publish these work orders for these
facilities uh this is one of uh three
national account programs we're working
on right now and uh
so when facilities come up to the
michigan area uh you guys are gonna
get to see the some of that windfall and
there's plenty of facilities up in your
area too so it's gonna be great i
appreciate you guys and uh the
conversation was awesome so thanks for
your insights and we will catch you next
week
sounds good see ya all right see you
guys
The Huddle - Episode 7 - Trade Shows; What Attracts Installers
This week Paul talks with Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring discuss upcoming Trade Shows, and how they benefit the Installer.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome everybody to this week's um
huddle
it's episode seven
and um
every week we come to you as usual with
daniel and jose
and the whole goal here is to move your
flooring uh business or career forward
so we like to call it forward progress
uh today's a pretty light-hearted show
uh or huddle we're really wanting to
just kind of talk about experiences at
trade shows and what attracts installers
um i know you guys go to these uh to a
lot of different trade shows just
wanted to chat super quick uh it's day
after holiday so it's kind of a short
week we're gonna keep this hu this
huddle short as well
but uh
i think it'd be beneficial the more
installers i found a ton of value going
to the to the different shows and uh i
thought we'd maybe just chat about that
a little bit
anybody feel like jumping in
uh and as a note we're right on the
on the cusp of uh cfi convention so
that's coming around the corner here at
the first of next month a little less
than a month away so it's probably good
timing to talk about you know what are
the goods uh out there
um that that can attract installers to
get to some of these shows uh you know a
lot of companies go but what about the
what about us
right
i think uh
when we started going it was really for
the installation competition which
they're also doing
the the preliminary installation
competition i think they have like three
or four different um
kind of regional
deals that they're trying to do and to
to get people to go to um surfaces this
year and competing in installer of the
year but
um before that i mean we never really
did anything and then i i signed up i
got in and
you know once you
actually walk into one of these places
and see how
huge it is and how many people are there
and
the p the people that are there it's
like man i never thought i'd be talking
to this guy and him over here shaking
his hand and
talking to him and it's just
just amazing um then you know once you
get your your first one under the belt
and then you start going to more and
more you realize how many um different
like education events and stuff like
that that
that they have so it's not just going
there
to network and hang out but i mean
there's actual classes and seminars that
you can attend and
uh you can pick and choose which ones
you go to but it's like
so much information jam-packed into the
couple days that you're there
so what what's the
you know like you mentioned the
the installation
competition the preliminaries are at cfi
generally and then the main events at
tice
and yeah so
tell me a bit more about that because
you have some you guys got some
some skin in the game there
yeah
i mean
the competition was amazing i they just
brought it back after you know what was
it like almost 20 years that they didn't
have it
and
when i signed up right because
i'm not like
a lot of the the other flooring guys
it's like yeah i'm good but i know there
are people better than me out there so i
was super nervous to sign up
but then
it was actually like
my brother my sister
uh jeremy got chuck that used to work
with us they all like hype me up they're
like man you're you are good you got to
do it so i signed up and
got in and just being in there it's it's
pretty nerve-wracking because you got
all these eyes on you but it's a it's a
great time it's almost
a lot of these people always talk about
how good they are
but none of them ever like
show up to show us how good they are
yeah
yeah it's
the whole the whole journey just as far
as getting involved that was
amazing too and i'm sorry if i if i'm
cutting in a little bit but um
like daniel said when he entered we
didn't know what to expect that was my
first time
ever going um the two
ties and
you know obviously i i went because to
support my brother but
it definitely
opened up
both of our perspectives as far as
understanding that there is
a lot more people out there
with similar
uh goals some similar interests and it
puts you in front of
people in your industry um and like
daniel said knowing that
we're pretty good he's pretty good at
installing you know we all have our
little niche
but
doing the installer of the year and
having him compete and kind of
gaining that much more knowledge because
that that place fuels you right like it
you feed off of the
the vibes that you get while you're in
there and it does help boost you
this is so the installer
competition obviously has
is was the kind of catalyst to get you
guys going
um
i think it's great that they brought it
back
is there you know what about some of the
other shows like coverings um i i would
also say it's a heck of a good time when
you go
you know daniel had mentioned about
you know all the education which is is
you know obviously it is there
uh different
oh how do i say it it's it's not all
just so installer focused or anything
but you can learn some new stuff about
the industry as a whole
the economics of the industry they
usually have like a you know a
state of the uh the industry type deal
there at tice i know
um
but point being is it's also pretty fun
you end up meeting people that you see
on social media or you might meet the
president of shaw or
ef contract or mohawk i mean literally
those guys are just kind of hanging out
there
so it's kind of neat to go meet
you know one of the ceos of a
multi-billion dollar
uh corporation right there hanging
hanging at the same same place that we
are
you have the opportunity to break bread
with some of these people too and you
know as
um
everybody is so down to earth and so
welcoming that it's
it's hard to view
to view it like the outsider looking in
right like
like you said you go meet these people
that hey this guy's on the email i've
been getting for the past three years
and he's like sitting right next to me
and we're talking about
life in general we're not talking about
work right i mean obviously work is
related in there and all ties in but to
be able to to sit there and get to to
learn who everyone is know everyone is
more on a personal level
um
like i said it just feeds to that that
fire inside of you it's that fuel that
you're looking for
that everyone started at some point
worked their way up
um and you know it's not just ties like
i've been into a few other events um and
every single one is the same thing
you go there with an open mind knowing
knowing that you're going to learn
something it's not whether or not yes i
i wonder if i'm going to learn anything
i wonder if i'm going to take something
away it's
100 facts that you're going to learn
something you're going to take something
away it doesn't matter how small or how
big
yeah i mean
i guess i want to spread the word and
try to get more guys there
uh you know even at
i did
kind of a
i wouldn't i wouldn't call it a survey
or anything
uh really um
just a a
overview of of the amount of installers
going appears to be somewhere in the
200 range and it appears i see the same
guys at the same shows
so
my thought
here is like how
the and most of the guys that go to the
shows are some of the guys that you you
see and recognize as some of the the
better installers out there
um
so how do you get more guys to go i
guess uh if if uh
the the thais people and
coverings
uh tsp
uh
cfi convention if they were watching
this what what what got you there is the
competition is there other things that
that these uh you know i go for
networking i go to learn about new
products
i also enjoy just getting around the
rest of the people in the industry
the way you were talking about jose and
what i was
speaking to about you know you you're
you're getting to meet the ceo of say
mohawk or what have you um
we're kind of like a
the biggest small industry there is it
seems to me like
everybody kind of congregates at these
uh conventions and there's
there's a lot to be had and a lot to
learn from the installer standpoint but
it's also a hell of a lot of fun so if
you get out there you start networking
you go have drinks with guys uh you know
i went to a great after party that that
uh
that tile nation put on
uh that was a a great
great uh
event afterwards it was fun to hang out
with everybody so it's a it's a fun
thing
uh
yeah i i see
he'll probably be back in a minute
but uh we got like dwayne pruitt just uh
a few minutes ago said that the new
tools from the vendors is one of his
favorites and then you that that is huge
right because you go to like ties and
they got two alley and you go there and
you see
and the countertops and stuff and it's
like these huge machines it's like man
some of these tools are
are crazy and then you get and they're
doing this
they're doing you know displays or
showing how the tools work it's really
cool jim aaron just chimed in and said
big industry small community
i think that sums it up pretty well
very big industry small community that
that um you know it's got that small
community feel so
if you guys you know
yeah we've seen you go
uh but if the install
competition got people there
um
how what other ways
you know that that competition obviously
brought some installers in
uh you know
just speaking from experience like i
said i like networking getting to know
the the heads of our industry
most people are very
open with their comm their uh contact
information as well and so emailing them
later when i have a question
i got this really talented guy at mapei
that i got his email and i know most of
the people have my pay and this guy just
has a certain specific knowledge that
i'm able to email him and ask him
specific questions and he's not even
necessarily my rep so you get some of
that stuff too
but yeah go go
go into the shows it for me is
a little bit away
from work but it's still enough work
that i feel like i'm being productive
and i can have a good time so
and then once you start looking at it
from like how do we get guys to go there
right that's what we're talking about
and it's like you have to look at it
like these are more um
or have been
in the past more like dealer focused so
you get the guy going out there and and
ladies going out there looking for the
new materials and what's trending and
all that and then
uh to get more installers out there
actually gives us a bigger spot in the
industry for them to be like okay well
it's not just us that's going to these
shows we've got tons of installers here
now and it's kind of like
maybe we we do have to start
communicating better as an industry and
not just
we're storers and we're installers
that's everyone is is here together
let's start talking about that i think
that's one of the biggest things on
why more people need to start going to
these things
yeah i think the more installers to go
the more they're going to do some stuff
to cater
they have always been pretty dealer
focused
but
with the amount of
independent installers that are not
working for a company
there has to be something that draws
them there
um
so
i think the competition is a high level
and i also want to thank you
go ahead
go ahead jose
the competition is what initially
brought us to our first let's quote
unquote convention
that was the that was the driving force
behind it um but
the people that we met and the
connections that were made
is what keeps our engine
and what brings more interest is knowing
that they're going to have technical
reps that they're going to have
marketing rights that they're going to
have um
you know other reps from other
manufacturers offer other aspects of the
industry
that
really keep our interest in returning to
any one of these and not only that is if
you find something that draws your
attention
then go there with a goal like find
someone that you want to connect and
find
something that you need to connect with
and try to connect those dots right like
sign up for it and go when you get there
ask a question maybe
you know i mean i'm going to revert back
to the meeting that we had there in
kansas we said hey this is our this is
where we're falling short as a business
this is where we need help
but
if it wasn't for us continuing to go and
for one uh further our education to
increase our social capital uh and three
just try to be as much of a flooring
nerd as possible in our industry
um we never would have connected because
me and you bumped into each other
multiple times over the course of two
years and yeah we met we met at the show
at different at you know multiple
different times but we met at shows so
that shows you the value i mean i've
grown
go ahead let's say it's just
it's just ongoing like yeah
there's somebody there
for any questions you might have there
is somebody that can help you out
and that's not a place to be shy or
embarrassed or
or anything like that like seriously
everyone there wants to see you succeed
as a sales person as an installer as a
new company as an aspiring company
they want to see your growth you know
everybody there pushes for that and
it's just a matter of asking
the question if someone doesn't know the
answer
they will lead you to the person's guts
well and i think that some of the events
i'll i'll bring up tile nation again
because they did a a really cool
uh booth at theis this last um
event and that was fun it was cool to go
hang out with those guys
cool to watch their approach they made
it fun
uh let you participate
i think if more of that the more that
stuff happens
they seem to draw a pretty good crowd
too
so that was cool
so shout out to them and
hopefully the industry can continue to
do some things that'll kind of
attract installers to the shows i just
think there's such a benefit i know that
we
you know we talk about training and
everything but there's some cool
trainings that are there as well
uh
but there's more than just
you know there's more to this industry
than just
installation training and all that
there's also a good camaraderie amongst
installers when you gather together
and
i think you find
less guys that are
this
you know six month or one year guys that
think they're the the best already uh
you have true professionals showing up
there so
um i've always enjoyed hanging out and
getting to getting to know other
installers we've gotten jobs covered
there
we've formed other relationships there
and so i
i think it's something that if you have
not been to a convention cfi convention
is august
2nd i believe
is that correct
anyone yeah second to the second to the
fourth yeah so go to that that's that's
coming up um
in less than a month
sign up go to that that it's pretty fun
i should i mean it's really installer
focused and and get to know some other
people out there
i know we'll be there go carrera will be
exhibiting there
come by our booth
i know that preferred flooring will be
there
you can get to know some of the other
industries uh people likes
um
you know
uh what was
see obviously cfi but the ceramic tile
education foundation i'm not sure if
they'll be there but
jim aaron and the floor covering
education foundation will be there
um
so get to you can get to know some
people uh and there's also uh
great speakers that got brought up
great great speakers and and um yeah so
he might have been referring to himself
just just throwing that out there
danny wants
everyone to know that wolfe is going to
be there
wolf will be there as well yeah
my brother
your twin
my twin brother
so yeah everybody i mean um this is a
pretty short podcast uh huddle
um but
you know really it's about trying to
encourage people to go to cfi it's right
around the corner and then go to some
other shows as well depending on which
discipline you're in like
uh there's more specific shows like tsp
is really tile focused um but
we may put a link on our uh website in
fact for each one of the shows that you
can go to
um and we'll we'll put that
so if you have any questions go to
goquerrer.com
we'll have that up here in the next i
don't know 48 hours or something it
shouldn't take too long to put something
like that up and we'll
we'll give you the links to the shows
where you can go sign up and and uh show
up i mean
give it a chance if you haven't been
you're going to have a heck of a good
time and you're going to learn a lot
yeah
yeah
when you look at it like cfi
convention that's coming up is pretty
small compared to some of these other
ones where
when you walk into ties and it's like
as far as the eye can see
that you have to walk through
and you know see if i convention is
smaller you you get to actually
network more one-on-one with a lot of
people because it's so close together
and
it's it's just awesome you know we went
for the first time
just last year and it is it's one of
those things that you
don't know how beneficial it actually is
until you go
and then you realize man just like you
said just the networking aspect uh you
can ask any question you want
well and generally
they're they're really everyone's really
helpful so
go enjoy the show that's my ploy to
everybody like let's let's get as many
people to cfi as possible uh cfi
convention and then follow up with you
know
uh another show there's probably
five or six good shows a year good
conventions you can go to a year so
right
and the other thing is don't think that
you have to go to every single one of
them because you'll be gone for a long
time yeah yeah yeah you know and that's
another thing too is like daniel said
this uh this actual cfi convention or
anyone because this is on a smaller
scale compared to
uh ties or any of the the other larger
ones you can actually ask people um a
more direct question on what conventions
do you think would be more beneficial
for me and my company and they'll tell
you hey i went to this one and you know
this one was over my head or i went here
and i got a lot of information that i
could use
um
you know and ask them about all the
group affiliations as well yeah um which
ones could could
uh help you grow which ones could could
uh benefit you as far as a learning
capacity there's just a lot
yeah there is a lot of opportunity to
get involved once you're at the show
you'll find different opportunities if
you want to be
on the advisory board for something or
do something
we got a celebrity in here hey crystal
how you doing good how are you she wants
to plug her her thing that's going on at
cfi is why she's over here right now
awesome plug away
and i are doing a round table discussion
uh with women in chair covering
on uh wednesday august 3rd
come see us come talk with us at what
time at 9am
sweet hey is there a hands-on that's
going on everyone can
what's
that uh crystal is there a hands-on that
you said that you're gonna be
participating in is there any more
information on that that's on tuesday
elliptical stars
yeah so if you're if you're
a woman in
industry installation
uh
go meet crystal and and get to know her
journey it's been pretty cool to to get
to know that and
obviously she's done some pretty cool
stuff
i i got to personally watch her install
a tice and it was it was it was awesome
so
uh go check her out and and
will you be speaking crystal or
is it jen vern and i are leading the
round table discussion sweet
yeah so go go listen and and um
and participate in that as well
is that about women in the floor
recovery industry um just
general conversation general
conversation but the one of the biggest
things
especially the takeaway from last year's
ties is that
the industry is growing and there's more
and more women in here and they need to
start feeling comfortable in the
industry as well so this is an actual
actually a great time for them to come
and network
hang out with crystal
hang out with everyone
yeah
yeah get to the show guys it's going to
be fun
i actually had a dream that someone uh
there was another female that
signed up for installer of the year
competition
good
well hope that comes true
yeah hopefully that'll be reality
yeah
all right guys anything else crystal you
want to say anything else
we're talking about trade shows uh so
what did you think about trade shows
like before you actually went to your
first one
and then how do you feel about them now
since
you know we're going on a pretty regular
basis now i didn't even know they were a
thing until
they went to
ties the first year and i was like they
have nerd conventions for flooring
but uh
once once i went last year
to cfi convention that was my first
convention that i attended and
it's it's game changer it really is to
be around all of the like-minded people
and
just getting to know people on a
personal level instead of just on
facebook or you know over zoom and stuff
it's
it really is a game changer and
you can't afford not to attend these
things
that's a good point
well that's that's pretty encouraging to
hear so if if anybody's
watching and wondering if there's any
value
what you just heard was after the first
one it's a game changer so you like
if that doesn't speak volumes to what
you can learn
both beneficial to your business plus
like on the personal level getting to
know other people at the that's in the
industry and having some fun
you're you're working but you're still
having a good time
that's what's
pretty cool to me i've actually been
told that
uh
like online and just you know meeting
without talking to me like on a personal
level i seem pretty arrogant and i'm an
a-hole or something
but this this person has
since
whatever you know
they told me that you know you get to
know someone and it's like man you're
not even like that at all it's
well you might find personal level thing
yeah you get to
get to actually know somebody
uh you get the joke around man
personality comes out it's it's totally
different when it's all about work
versus in person right because
yeah when it's about work anybody can
come off a little monotone a little
repetitive but as soon as you let your
hair down
you know
there's no rules when it comes to that
you can be
you can be
you you don't have to be the person that
you think everyone wants you to be you
can be yourself and that opens
that you know makes you vulnerable right
it it it brings
it brings to everyone's attention that
yeah this is a real person and that's me
looking at other people and maybe how
people view me i don't know i mean i i
don't do as much
as daniel or crystal have done in front
of the spotlight but
most of what i do is just talking person
to person like like we have in the past
and
it's hard not to be yourself
yeah
yeah we certainly get to let your hair
down if you had any
and
have a good time
crystal knows about letting the hair
down i i'm not so blessed but
uh
so yeah go to convention give it a shot
guys i'd love to see you there
and
um
daniel
jose crystal thanks for joining today
and we look forward to seeing you in
august
and
we'll all be there if you guys want to
come hang out come buy us a drink
yeah yeah we don't we will only probably
drink one drink a piece so we're
lightweight
hey that's gonna be one of my five this
year
so come enjoy i hope to see uh
some new faces and at the very least
i'll get to see some old friends so
that's what i look forward to every year
so um hope everybody makes it uh we
don't have a lot of questions or
anything that came through
today so
we got any questions we do
well anyway hey just just to fill dead
space i i have a baseball game today
with this guy right here
can you tell he's ready for ball
that's why i had to leave early and be
on the phone so
yeah he looked pretty
yeah
okay we have a question of
why would i pay money to attend a trade
show that doesn't have a direct effect
on my abilities
i think that's that's almost like the
same thing as when people say that
certifications don't have an effect on
them because they already know what
they're
they're doing why would they pay for
someone to tell them what they already
know and it's you got to have a
different mindset than that you have to
have
the mindset of you know it's is it going
to directly affect you it all depends on
what you do with the information that
you gather from these shows yes
yeah that's that's a really good way to
put it because
you are going to take something away you
100 are going to take something away and
if
if you go there and you just meet one
person and that one person helps you
with the project or you go help them
with the project or you network and you
go work out of
your comfort zone out of your radius and
you go learn something from somebody
that's i mean that's still
a takeaway you never know what you're
going to learn is the key i mean it's
pretty presumptive
no no offense to the
person asking
it's just presumptive that you're not
going to learn
that it's not going to advance you in
some manner also if you go with the mind
of if you're that good you have
something to give so go and give yeah go
participate and and help other people
then i that's a a bit lacking sometimes
in our industry
if it doesn't benefit you then maybe you
can benefit someone else so be a little
unselfish about it
and and go and you will have a good time
i'll promise you that if you participate
um and then you know
if you're if you know so much that you
may not learn which i would challenge
that for just about anybody but if you
are that guy or that lady
go and give give your knowledge
there there is again
go career is going to be there so
you can go and learn all about what go
prayer is all about and kind of you guys
are going to have like some screens kind
of showing what's going on or
yeah we're going to take we'll have some
screens we'll show you the the platform
show you how it works show you how it
can benefit you as an independent
installer
how it can benefit companies and kind of
the win-win
between you know
companies
uh installers
as well as the industry that has uh you
know
supported us and we're really excited to
be at convention here so thank you for
that daniel
come see us at convention at the very
least you can you can learn a bit a bit
more about go career and see see it live
happening in front of you yeah we're
going to be hanging out at your booth
for a little bit too so word on the
street is that we're going to help you
when needed yeah absolutely that's a
word
all right guys hey thanks for joining
everybody that's we're gonna close it
out with that and um we'll see you next
week and see everybody at convention
all right that sounds good thanks guys
thanks guys see ya thanks for joining
crystal
thanks for letting me crash the party
anytime
The Huddle - Episode 6 - Set Yourself Ahead; Get Trained
This week Paul talks with Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring go into detail about how important it is to get trained and certified. They discuss how it can set you apart from other installers in the hiring process, and how it puts you ahead in your business.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
as usual what's up everybody
and welcome to the huddle
where we come into weekly to discuss
forward progress and maintaining that in
your flooring career today we're going
to be talking um about trainings we hit
on it every week we're going to do kind
of a deep dive in the importance of that
so
we encourage
questions we'll have q a so you can chat
your question
and
we'll do our best to address that during
q a
so
without further ado joined with me as
usual is jose and daniel of preferred
flooring
and
they are probably
one of the
biggest proponents of training
we certainly are as well but
out there in the industry i think that
it's pretty clear where they stand and
so maybe
maybe we can start with
was there a clear difference because i
know you guys um
got started and and was uh installing
for a while and then you you just you
got some certifications or some
different trainings was there a clear
difference before and after from
like did you learn something that
moved the pendulum for you or was it a
gradual deal
i think
so if if we start like even even before
we started getting certifications um i
was kind of one of those people that i
was that was always like why do i need
to get trained in this i do this every
day
and then it wasn't until you actually go
to your first training or certification
where you're like
damn i kind of been doing that wrong the
entire time
and it wasn't
like i was like well this is bs because
i don't want to admit that i'm wrong
it's i guess i got some things to work
on and it's just that one thing that
that you take away
so once uh we went through the trainings
it was kind of like all right we've been
doing this uh
not necessarily
like completely wrong but there was
steps to it that we were missing so i
was like all right let's
back everything up start doing things
the way they're supposed to be done and
then implementing that moving forward
and and not doing it how we used to
yeah
definitely um definitely a change in
perception right you
[Music]
you don't know that
you might not know everything until you
learn something new because that's all
you know uh and
dale you don't know what you don't know
yeah yeah like daniel said you
you go into these classes uh if you go
in there thinking you're gonna you know
everything you're
completely out of your element you're
putting yourself in a bad spot
um you know humble yourself going there
and be prepared to learn from the newest
guy and the oldest guy in there in that
class
but going in and learning something like
danny i went through a lot a lot more
certifications than i have right even
though
um i had my first cert involved
20 plus years ago
armstrong but um and i think i took a
mohawk certification class on accident
um but um
you got to be the first guy
yeah
and course on accident yeah
you come back with a little bit more
information and you have those ah-ha
moments
so you start thinking back about
past projects that you've done and
you've had issues or if you didn't have
a shortcut or something failed or if
something just wasn't working right then
you're like
[Music]
i know what that is now i know exactly
what that is now
did that help you um
one of the
um
i think big benefits
is just understanding
you have a leg to stand on when you do
have a claim did you do you find that
helpful
if you've ever had a claim i got a story
about that myself but
when
you have a claim but you've been fully
certified and you can
you know kind of prove that you did it
the the manufacturers
um
per the manufacturer's instructions and
for industry training did that have you
ever leaned on that during a claim or
anything
yeah 100 i mean if you're in the
flooring industry and you say you've
never had something go wrong or you've
never had to
uh bite the bullet and say you've made a
mistake or
go back and rethink of what you rethink
of the process uh and put it down on
paper and say you know what i did do
everything right um
if you say you've never had any one of
those two then
you're just not telling the truth or
nobody told you well i mean there's some
guys that
never been trained and
and um
you know i think there's a clear
difference in vernacular of what you say
uh in a claim
uh when you're dealing with a you know
an independent inspector you're dealing
with claims department at a mill
there's there's a difference in what
you
you know if you don't know you didn't do
it right
we had a claim long time ago pre
probably
you know
15 years ago and we've had other issues
but i'm just in this particular thing
uh our installer was not certified at
all he'd been taught well he was he had
good hand skills but he was never
certified never trained
and
he clearly
made some comments to the inspector
and the inspector put that in his report
that
he didn't do it
the per the instructions
part of it's because he probably didn't
he wasn't trained properly
but the other part is years down the
road we've won claims because we were
able to not only show the guys
certified
but in addition to that
uh
he he was able to recite the methods or
the
uh you know the process he took in
installation
and
pretty much those those types of things
are what uh save that particular claim
was that
he was able to
line by line talk about what he did
and what processes he used
and it made a big difference like it
turned the whole thing around
right and then we've been on
you know
a claim or two where the actual
manufacturer
was like well this is your fault and
then you're like whoa whoa whoa but i'm
certified and then they're like oh hold
on then let us take a look back all
right we're going to cover it now
yeah isn't that amazing
well a lot of that is they're going to
try to get away with and not to get too
deep into the claims we i would like to
address that in a future episode like i
believe
man if installers could get
you know the inspection training as well
to know
the angles that are taken
uh there's a benefit there but
in just being trained on the flooring
itself
it's almost as if on claims they they go
with
you know
denying the claim and seeing if you take
it
you know but if you know what you're
doing and you've been properly trained
you can sure get yourself out of those
and rightfully so look it was
i'm not making it like our guy was able
to talk his way out of it it was not a
installation error it was a
manufacturer's defect
and we were just able to get there
by them not
blaming the easiest way which is just to
blame the installer
right and it's not only the
manufacturers it's uh we've been in to
some spots where
the actual people you're doing work for
so the store that you're working for is
like hey this is what's wrong with it
you guys got to go and fix it and it's
like
no it's not our fault they're like oh
yeah we hired a
an inspector and then you're like okay
well we're going to hire an inspector
too and send them out and then you just
magically never hear about that job ever
again yeah
yeah that's a job we're getting ready to
revisit now so because of our honesty
and
um our due diligence through that whole
project um
it's just one of those places they call
us for everything they need for the
flooring and i'm very grateful for that
um
what's your what's your experience with
uh the biggest
we've touched on this before as well
what do you guys hear when somebody
um
you know why they're not
i mean what's the biggest
uh hurdle or reluctancy to getting
trained
good
a lot of it is we hear is like i said
when you're like why do i need to learn
how to do this when i do it every day i
already know what i'm doing
so
there's no point into me going over
there so they can tell me what i already
know
yeah
and that's
that's hard to hear and it's it's hard
to hear because
it's some
commercial changes all the time right
residential might stay the same a little
bit for for like
some carpet but some techniques
come out new techniques new installs new
banking new tools new tools and
there's a lot of things
that if you're not keeping up with it
you're just falling behind and
you
you don't put yourself in a position to
be successful if you think you know
everything and that's the way it's going
to stay and remain it's just it's just
not going to happen
yeah new technology new techniques all
that stuff comes out
so being
up to speed on that stuff is important
but i would say what about
you know
when we ran a survey
for
go carrera we ran a survey trying to
find out why installers don't get
trained and that was the
number one reason number two was they
don't know where
to even go it's like the industry is not
doing a great job they shoot out emails
to flooring companies like myself but
they never get down to the installer
level
for
information on where to get trained for
a given discipline whether it's carpet
or tile or resilient or flash coving
heat welder you know wood flooring and
there's great
trainings out there for just about every
one of the disciplines it's just a
matter of knowing where they're at
um
that's part of our
real goal here is we've we're starting
we're almost finished i should say with
a um
with a webpage that'll have every
training on every month regardless of
who's teaching i don't care who's
teaching it we just want to promote
training
and then
get that out there if it's
recognized as a industry training we
want people to know where it's at and
what it is and try to promote that as
best as we can but
so that solves half
of the two major
kind of uh
disputes about why to get trained but
how do you change the minds of somebody
who says you know
well i'm
i'm not going to make any more money at
it or uh you know it's not going to pay
me i got to take off time and pay for
the training and pay for travel
uh how's that going to benefit me those
types of deals
um how do you kind of go against that
i would say look at what we're doing
right now if we were would have never
put ourselves out there and
did something like that we wouldn't be
sitting here talking to you right now
it's a one of the best networking tools
that you can get as well is going to
these certifications and it's
it's not only that you're you're
learning but you're
also you know learning
alongside someone that's probably has
more experience than you and then on the
other side someone that probably learned
something from you so it's yeah it's
that whole networking aspect it's not
only are you learning about a particular
material or something like that it's i'm
gonna go hang out with like-minded
people and
get that knowledge that i need
um that's a good point the networking
piece of that is
i mean just having somebody to call is a
you know hey daniel i'm running up
against this
xyz scenario what would you do well if
you didn't never go to the train you
don't know who daniel is and you don't
you never
formed any kind of relationship you
might not be able to do that but
i feel pretty comfortable that if i
needed to get some advice i could call
you guys up and say hey man i got this
scenario what would you do you know
right there's we've seen a lot of stuff
and i actually get um calls from some
inspectors that i've done certifications
with when they run into something that's
like hey what's your thoughts on this
and
it's like you know what i've actually i
just went through a job like this so
this is what we found out
and that's the benefit too right is
not only are you increasing your social
capital but you are also educating
yourself through these trainings so that
way when you do have a conversation you
are using the same terminology things
are less likely to get lost in
translation although you know one region
might have a nickname for specific
backings of some sort but if you go back
to the training where everything is kind
of
very specific you can figure it out
if you just have a couple minute
conversation um as to what terminology
is being used um i remember i mean we
still use funny words around here we
don't use the exact terms for a lot of
things uh but that's more
from from me to the guys you know from
my sister to daniel
but more on the job site or when we're
talking to you
to you or someone else the terminology
is a lot closer and tighter knit and
that's another benefit social capital
terminology
yeah you use the wrong terminology you
can get hung on a claim too
yes 100
yeah i i found that
i like to when somebody's saying
something about
oh i've been you know i'm good
i've been doing this for 20 years my
uncle was
the best ever or whatever
uh i've heard i can't count how many
different stories but
when they tell me that i'm if you're if
you're just going to work with one
company or you're
you're never looking to expand your
your client base as an installer trying
to work for more stores than just one so
you don't have all your eggs in one
basket or you're trying to work maybe
with a bill directly with
general contractors or or whatever your
goals are for your company
the fact is you may know you're great
but not everybody else does
and without the knowledge
uh whether it's certifications some way
to know
uh that you're properly trained no one
else knows it's just your word at that
point
that's part of you know what go career
solves with the hammer rating but
at the same time
that the only way you get hammers the
only way you get your skill score up is
education
affiliations trainings
and experience i mean it's how you get
good or uh increase your skill in
anything
i've said it with doctors or
you know you don't want a foot doctor
working on your spinal cord uh you know
you want to make sure they got the
proper training and that they have the
initials behind their name to to make
sure that they're they're qualified to
work on that
body
and just talking about you know like
doctors and stuff i actually um
my son's travel baseball team there's
actually you know we there's some nurses
in there some teachers and i i was
picking their brains and i'm like you
know what kind of continued education do
you guys have to go through
and um just
just the teacher um i talked to her a
couple weeks ago when we were in
tennessee and she's like
we got to go through at least 100 hours
of
you know continued education every year
and
it's like
you think about that 100 hours that's
more than
two weeks of your work time and that's
just maintenance
yeah
and it's like you know the all these
other professions are having to do this
and then our
i don't want to say our entire
profession you know our
everyone is like this but a lot of
people are like i don't need this and it
just boggles my mind now
it does mine too
like
if you think about
that statement like i don't i don't need
trained
it sounds kind of silly when you just
say it if if you hear you know if
somebody would just listen to themselves
and how that sounds i don't need
training
well you got it somewhere you learned
from your uncle or your
cousin or your brother your dad or
grandpa or what whoever you learned how
to install from you got trained
you're just trying we're just saying go
get the
industry training as well back up your
knowledge with
with that that um
you know that certification or or an
industry training that helps support
what you've already learned and part of
the deal was what you talked about
earlier is technology changes i mean
adhesives changed greatly in the 90s
like when they took solvents out uh and
today that they finally got you know
some good water
soluble adhesives but when they took
solvents out that was a big
problem it caused a lot of failures
um
you know
trainings when when um
you guys aren't really carpet guys but
back in the day they came out with the
unitary back carpet it was just
you know no secondary backing
and
to get that stuff to stick to the floor
at the same time when they're taking all
the
the
the uh
solvents out of the adhesives there were
some tricks
that if you knew
unitary would do okay for you
uh if you didn't it wasn't even the
worst it was
lee's carpet with the fiberglass backing
that was though wax back with the blue
blue wet set
yeah i mean
that's we're not still ripping that
stuff out man it's
it's so stuck around all the bubbles i
was gonna say not very easily
um i want to add to the training portion
too because if people are having a hard
time uh deciding whether or not training
is what they need or what's good for
them if you think about it in a
different aspect like uh what are your
hobbies as if you know you go to work
every day and even if you sit in the
office and your hobby is woodworking
after work
you're going to
do research right what is research
research is training you're going to
want to find out more about the species
of blood what's uh you know
what is the better coating to put on it
how am i gonna sand this how am i gonna
shape this
um
if you're playing sports if your hobby
is you know basketball or or weight
training you know you're gonna do
research what protein is good for me uh
do i need to take protein at bedtime you
know what is the best diet you know
there's a science behind everything so
and you're still gonna do research
you're gonna you're gonna train yourself
that's research training
education slash research that's that's
all grouped together so you gotta look
at it like that right
you're in the florida what's the benefit
of doing a a training like an industry
training versus learning on youtube
the
networking youtube is you're listening
to a direction from someone that you
can't ask a question
if you go to a training in person you're
physically
watching you're there you're on top you
could change your angle you can say can
i see that again can you explain that to
me again hold on let me try that what
did i do wrong right and it all depends
on who you're listening to as well
because
on youtube and
all that it's you see some
let me go repair this with some macaque
and call myself a professional
yeah i think it's got a lot to do with
who's teaching it number one
and then number two
you brought up a good point with
networking but i i would
push that further to
why
you can't ask a video why why did you do
it that way and if you're in person with
an instructor i know on the
certifications i've went to
and achieved
uh understanding why they did something
a certain way that differed from the way
that maybe i did it beforehand was a big
uh big help for me to understand how to
how to install it i'm kind of i was that
kid that always asked why and i'm still
i still do that as an adult
i want to know why why did you do it
that way
and then you can even kind of flip that
right because there's probably some
things that you do that
the instructor has probably never seen
me before it's happened when i went to a
certification and you know i'm doing it
and i'm explaining it some way and he's
just watching and he's like you know
what i never thought about it like that
before but that's going to be the way
i'm going to be teaching it from now on
so it's not just you know you learning
things like i said it's
you you
have a lot to offer too and just bring
that with you as well yeah if you're so
good you might just be able to help
somebody else out that i mean
i hate to get you know sappy about it
but for the installers out there that
may be listening that have that
uh attitude or approach that you know i
already know everything well maybe
sharing that knowledge could help too
um you know these training entities um
they're gonna
continue to grow i believe the industry
is pushing
you know more and more towards it um i
see
claims coming out and questionnaires
that ask if you're certified those types
of deals so
i think the industry's pushing that way
so
at the end of the day being
being trained
industry trained by somebody
and then you giving some of your
knowledge you might know a trick that
might just like daniel's um example
there that might help somebody else out
so participation
networking and learning
uh goes a long way i
you mentioned you wouldn't be here
talking to me without it
there's a lot that i think
it's benefited you guys
it certainly benefited our company uh
for embracing training and that's all
we're asking like embrace training
there's a lot of good stuff going on out
there in the tile world
they seem to be a little bit ahead of
the other industry
uh products honestly um
from a training perspective i think um
you know it's it's more of an artistic
or it's looked at as more of an artistic
um
product although i would argue resilient
can be pretty doggone artistic if you
ever do a children's hospital you'll
find that one out yeah any any hospital
any hospital but children's hospitals
they they tend to get a little wild with
colors and patterns but
point being is um you know the industry
is moving that way there's
private um
companies and private organizations
starting a different training give a
shout out to tile nation they do they're
doing you know some pretty cool stuff
with their um
gauge panels
and those the large format trainings for
gauge porcelain panels uh that's pretty
cool you know i know that cfi
continues to
grow they are here in wichita they're
you know they so they have other
training sites now
um
i i'm i'm hopeful that even more come
out and
and uh
that
we can support the amount because here's
here's one thing that i would kind of
throw out there to the industry
if we're if the studies are correct and
we're losing we're 8 000 below what is
needed
uh from an installer level and that's
going to grow exponentially
uh me
being that the average age is somewhere
around 53 to 55 depending on the study
um
how are we going to train
all of those people right
the industry has to step up and and kind
of widen their stance on it i think
overall but right now it's not like you
can't get into a class so i think
there's this dichotomy they're like well
when the demands there will increase the
supply of training so we need to
you know understand that
as
my ploy to the industry is like be
prepared because as as the wave comes in
because i i think we'll backfill
some of the need and
say three or four thousand people need
to be trained how do you how do you
accomplish that so hopefully the
training entities are thinking of that
and preparing for that but right now
it's not like there's a waiting list you
can get to trainings pretty easily i
look at them weekly you know so go get
trained uh increase your abilities maybe
get back to the industry a bit
learn something meet some new people
brand yourself a bit
i mean all those things seem to be
huge benefits to your business
uh if you go out and do it
yeah don't be scared to ask questions
when you're in these places too if any
if you've ever
wanted to ask questions
these certification classes are the
place to ask them because
you're gonna you're gonna realize one of
two things you're doing things the right
way and you're gonna continue to do them
or you're doing them wrong and this is
the place where you can fix it yeah
that's a good point
you can either validate what you're
doing
and that's always good and you get a
stamp of approval so to speak
uh or you can learn the the right way to
do it and start implementing new
techniques
sweet well
what do you guys um
do you guys have any
trainings coming up anything like that
uh down the pipe here
uh no enough for us i was looking at
some of the dates too and that's another
thing that um
might fear some installers too is you
know a lot of the trainings that people
really want are like during the busy
time right and that that's a hard pill
to swallow but um they do have some
off-season training you just gotta be
willing to travel and bust that time and
that money um
like to look into getting more of our
guys uh at least a certification under
their belt i just to make sure that
we're
pushing it to their strengths and not
putting them in a position
to where they feel that they failed
right because we haven't passed every
training that we've ever taken any or
every certification i'm sorry
but we got better even though we didn't
get to serve so we got better
um
and we will continue to get better
because of those experiences
um well kudos to you guys for
for looking at it that way and
you know approaching it where
putting a guy in a certification or a
training that matches their strength i i
know i i grabbed i couldn't lay tile for
the life of me to be honest with you
ceramic doll but i gravitated
and did really well in carpet and she
vinyl resilient side of things
so
working towards people's uh
strengths uh i think is key and then
what their interests are you know what
do you like doing
right
and don't feel intimidated man it's a
it's a place for everyone to learn
that's what we go there
just to learn
um in one of the last
certifications we went to there was
actually a gentleman from our hometown
um that that traveled there too and he
goes in there and he's like man i'm like
i'm so nervous right now i feel so out
of place
and you know just
almost like he was really intimidated
that we were there because we're kind of
well known and it's like don't be like
that man we're here to learn too it's
just stay the course the
most
the most that's going to happen is
you're going to learn something right
yeah
yeah that was a and
that was it came to the realization that
you know
it's not always easy guys right you're
always you're gonna be uncomfortable in
one of these classes or these
certifications at some point
you're just gonna have to accept that
right you're just gonna have to push
through it and give it a go like i said
just because you didn't receive the
certification doesn't mean that you
failed
it just means that you need to brush up
on it a little bit more than you expect
and the next time you go you know what
corrections need to be made
um they're going to let you know
yeah and
every training i've been to
i've ended up
you know getting to know somebody that
you know was cool to hang out with and
even if that's the only time i seen him
at that you know you see him around at
uh different shows and stuff and
everybody's always been really
accommodating and nice at every single
uh certification i've taken any of the
guys that have went it seems like it's
always been a
you know they need you there
that's you know the training entities
need us to go and and we need to go and
learn so it's
obviously a
you know
win-win
uh but i don't think anybody should be
intimidated
that's a little bit of ego sometimes
like almost worried about
you know being proven wrong or something
look go there to learn go there only to
learn and you'll be just fine i mean
that's my
take anyway
see if
we can get uh the uh
training page post
yeah post in uh in the uh
chat
all right let's
see if we got
any questions
i'll toss a couple questions out there
that have been
uh
was
let's see
here's one
pretty uh applicable so uh why would i
pay hundreds of dollars plus travel to
attend a course that may only make me a
little bit a little bit better than
before
they're still a little bit better than
before
that's kind of uh
a little bit better could be uh a lot of
money over over time
so
yeah
different demographic too that a little
bit better might push you past that
threshold that you couldn't get by
before you're wondering why not
that little bit
at the end
equals a lot could be the little bit
you're missing
you know
i mean if you save a couple hours a day
or
a prop per project because you learn
something cool even if it's just a
little bit
um
that could equal out to a lot of money
um
all you need to do from these trainings
and stuff is take away one thing if you
took away one thing that can benefit you
you got to call that a win
amen
uh okay how about um
do do companies really take into
consideration the amount of
certifications that an installer has
um
i think it given
if if i'm choosing and i have the
ability to choose between somebody who's
certified and non-certified of course we
use go carrera so we see all the metrics
of their hammer rating
um
but certainly
that comes out in the hammer rating of
course i'm going gonna hire
if i got two guys i don't know
i'm gonna hire the guy with the best
rating i mean that's if that's the only
metric i have at that point uh of course
if they've done a lot of work orders
through go career and have a good kudo
to work order ratio that's another
consideration but i would say
on my side
yeah if i'm if i'm doing a woven wool
carpet i'd like to
know that the guy's
certified through pj's course or
something through the
you know
natural fiber
uh certification
you put it in the form of a question
like this did you sit down and you're in
a post bed or something like that and
they say
hey your x percentage over the other
two uh companies that are here why is
that and
are you gonna hire the person that
answers with
because we have enough people to do it i
just don't know who's available at the
time or you're going to decide what the
person who says
uh yeah we are a little bit more costly
but that's only because we use certified
installers that this is this is their
their niche this is what they specialize
in and they put in the time and gotten
the education to be the best at this
particular product i mean
that that sells itself
it's not you have to sell it a little
bit right but the consumer doesn't know
unless you tell them
yeah i think it matters to general
contractors if especially if you're
doing a specialized flooring like a
protectal or something like that
or a certain epoxy flooring or wood
flooring or
even a specialized carpet yeah you're
probably not going to be asked for your
certification card if you're doing some
you know
carpet tile but there's a lot more out
there that
you know those things come in
real handy and i think companies do take
it into consideration
um
here's more of a statement i've never
lost a project just because of a
certification
we definitely would have lost some
projects without some of the
certifications that we had
right
yeah they
they called us specifically because we
were
certified and it's like
really you're the only ones over here so
it's
what are you going to charge us and
that's the networking thing too is your
name does go into a database and if
there is a particular customer that
wants
a specific item done
by someone who is certified they're not
looking at you know what's the bottom
dollar they're looking at who's the most
qualified and your name does go into
that database i mean it's still up to
you as a certified installer to come
through and do it the right way and use
your uh your education uh to your
benefit but
that that's a real thing that does
happen guys
i have to ask a question back like how
do you know what you've lost
you know somebody just decided you know
someone could have just decided that
i'm gonna go with this other guy because
he did i mean you don't really know
that's a tough
tough statement like how do you know for
a fact you haven't lost work
how do you know somebody didn't choose
another
person because they were certified and
you didn't get that i mean unless this
person gets every single job they ever
put their
efforts behind
that's a whole nother issue though
then you got then then i would encourage
you to go back to a couple weeks ago and
raise your prices
um
one way to look at it and
i don't speak for everybody but if you
are generating more revenue
um because of the additional phone calls
you're getting because of your
certifications but working less hours
throughout the year
that's a reflection of your
certification
but if you're still having to
crawl around and grind day in and day
out
and you're working
50 hours a week
plus
but you're you're the revenue generated
at the end of the year doesn't reflect
the amount of work that you're putting
in
no that's that's a sure to tell a sign
that you might be missing something
because
verification doesn't necessarily mean
you get paid more money you just might
draw the attention of people willing to
pay the higher dollars
um for the specific projects
well it's that old saying the old meme
that's like
you know you're not paying me to
just to lay your floor you're paying me
for the years of education and training
that took in effort to get here
if you're that guy but you're all you're
also not trained and certified well
you're kind of that's a misnomer i mean
like in
you know
yeah they're paying for your years of
experience your training your education
your your expertise
um
i guess that would be
a good
can you can you be an expert without
being
certified
um
i would say i would say yes
yeah
how valid is that
how do you prove it yeah because you can
be certified not an expert yeah you just
say you're an expert
are you that's almost like a
self-proclaimed expert at that point
well then you you do look at these other
professions right like doctors and stuff
like that you go in their office and
there are certifications right there on
the wall for everyone to see
this is where i went
that's where i got my
my certificate from then right next to
it is their their next one you know
they're very proud of the education that
they got and you should i feel like if
if we had a little bit more pride in
taking those courses and such that
you know i think cfi guys have have
the best culture around that piece of
displaying their
their
certifications probably
uh
just overall
uh not any in particular person but you
see that more i think there's you know
several guys on the go career network
that their profile pictures their their
cfi certification so
uh
you know so i guess you can be an expert
you can be really good but again nobody
else knows it's like
you know when you're you're you're
looking for backup in an argument you're
looking for some some uh someone to back
you up if you're like ain't that right
daniel well that's kind of what a
certification is to your expertise like
ain't that right cfi you know it's or
whatever training entity i say cfi
because it comes to mind the the fastest
but it could be any of them uh the point
is is that
to not be a self-proclaimed expert i
would say
you can be really really good but the
word expert
almost
indicates education
i mean that's my opinion
and
since you you know you mentioned cfi if
you just wanted to get a taste of kind
of uh
what the culture is like and stuff
convention is right around the corner
and we'd be more than happy to see
everyone there i mean just come and hang
out yeah august is cfi convention time
guys
come out there we'll have a booth go
carrera will i know
i believe you guys are going right and
we'll be down there yeah so come out and
see us i mean
um
love to chat more about not only
uh you know cfi because we'll be at the
convention uh but also just overall
uh how to improve your business if you
have any questions come see us
uh one last question before we wrap this
thing up we're here right at time limit
but why don't manufacturers offer
trainings or certifications
some do i i think they're
they're some of them have pulled back
um
because of
liability
them giving a certification
that's why they call them trainings not
certifications right because you can be
factory trained but still not be
certified yeah and
uh
factory trained is just it's all
information right you get some hands-on
you get some written uh you learn some
terminology
and you know they're setting you up for
success right to be better than you were
yesterday um but it's not a
certification because that would be like
you said a liability on their part
yeah i think that's why the the biggest
piece is liability but
at the end of the the
some of these i say at the end of the
day all the time that's like my saying
yes
at the beginning of the day at the
beginning of the day it's really
now um
sir uh
manufacturers
they still train like you said factory
trained
and they still log it like it's still
logged that you completed i think they
give completion certificates or
something like that on some of them um i
can't remember
uh
nora though is a sort of is a factory
certification
um and i believe forbose is still a
factory certification so there's almost
certification actually oh did they okay
yeah and they they stopped theirs before
cove but so they can't can't even use
that as an excuse whether they're
gonna revamp it and reopen it no one
knows but um i am also nora certified so
yeah and i did talk to a representative
from come on forbo
well they said they had to retract the
certification because of some legalities
right there was
they were absorbing a little too much um
i don't know all the details but it was
for legal reasons and
well what are they doing to backfill
that does anybody know
i don't know
i think those no jokes some of that
stuff you better that
their level of
acceptance
is here and you don't think that's that
high right but yours is right here
compared to what they have and
you think that you're pushing your
limits but you weren't even close to
theirs i mean you're talking about them
crawling around and like
there's a pencil mark that's like an
eighth inch right there you're getting
marked down for that yep
learned a lot
learned a lot and um
i um i just never forget it i'll never
forget i have to reach out to forbo
that's
surely they're going to do something
it's just their products aren't that
easy to work with frankly right a lot of
them and and really need that
i was never really comfortable working
with it until we went through that now
now it's like oh affordable i'll do it
all day long i got some vertical
installs that were i'm getting some
numbers together on right now actually
so
huh
yeah i'll have to reach out to him
and then since we're live right now on
like facebook and youtube linkedin we
got a comment that from uh someone
that's in the union
that used to be non-union and he said
the schooling that he received helped
him big time that's where you learn all
the tips and tricks you can't learn on
your own yeah and uni is a very good
advocate for for training man like you
know they have
they got a long process right but they
are very very focused um
i do wish they would open up their
because they're such a large part of our
community that is
independent non-union
that they would open up their training
to non-union people and charge for the
training yeah
something like that because i i do think
they've done a wonderful job most of the
time you get you know a union guy that's
been doing it for a while
you you can have pretty good confidence
in their abilities you know um
that's and after that he said it's an
investment which we talked about was
that last week about investing so
yeah and then uh danny sherman says from
wolf says he'll be at a cfi convention
so you got to go
see him too
danny
my brother
everybody calls us twins especially when
i grow up my beard a little bit it says
now i want to get a picture of you two
together
[Laughter]
oh you're you'll get your chance in
orlando for sure
[Music]
all right guys well i appreciate uh
everybody join in thank you guys for
coming on again it's always a pleasure
every week i i look forward to this so
uh my pleasure
and i think we got through
everything and um i don't see any other
questions so
well danny did put right here my twin
my plan
even though i know what we're going to
talk about i still take notes right
as part of the learning process i i
still want to be better at what we're
doing and i want to review and go over
what we talked about to make sure that
i'm doing myself uh favors later on so
it's doesn't matter what it's in just
never stop learning yeah go back to last
week invest in yourself
right
yeah
work hard at it
i love it
all right fellas
thanks again
signing off we'll see you next tuesday
bye
The Huddle - Episode 5 - Handling Finances and What to do With Your Earnings
This week Paul talks with Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring discuss how to be smart with your money to set yourself up for success in your business. They touch on saving for taxes, investing in yourself, and investing in your business to continue to grow.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up guys and welcome to the huddle
we come at you every week to discuss how
to maintain forward progress in your
flooring career
this applies to flooring but also
plenty of other careers
today we're going to be talking about
you know handling your finances and what
to do with the money that you earn
um
and kind of
just best practices for
for uh where to reinvest that money
and what we have found through
my 20 some years of of
being in the flooring business and a lot
of mistakes i made and a lot of uh
lessons learned
and uh got daniel and jose with me as
usual and they're gonna share some of
their
you know experience and and um
uh you know their their journey as well
we'll have time at the end here uh for
some q a so if you have any questions
type them uh type them in the chat
and uh we'll do our best to answer those
at the end
so as usual guys how's how's the week
starting for you
uh
busy
i think i think we've kind of hit a
bottleneck right now you know with
everything's kind of
the end of every month everything's just
kind of
going together just like that
yeah and summer's here so
if you're in schools uh you're you're
getting
getting that work trying to get that
work done
and uh
it's it's really encouraging just to
note to everybody that
i looked at the architects um we had an
event at one of my facilities here in
wichita
last week
and
talking to some architects and
their uh the reporting they get looks
like
uh it it kind of echoes what
was said at surfaces this year
which is
architectural billings are
significantly up all the way through and
and
look to be uh staying up all the way
through
2023 uh
with all the talk of recessions and and
you know the the economy and all that
that for construction people is is a big
plus so hopefully that stands true that
being said gentlemen
handling your finances i i took a few
notes and wrote down a few things that
um
i think we were discussing before this
may seem a little elementary sometimes
but had i been told some of this stuff
when i first got started i think it
could have well i know for a fact it
would have helped me a lot so
starting off uh
you you start earning money and you you
get some cash flow going what do you do
with that money right
invest that money in yourself
first you can't be the leader of a
company or an uh
you know other employees and things like
that if you're not the person that can
you know
currently if you're not the person that
can be that guy you have to become that
guy that only happens through education
um a lot of personal development um so
you know
i won't tell you what genre or whatever
but there's
you know read books
take courses learn
um
so
i i believe heavily that you have to
become the person you want to be
uh to do the things you want to do
and so you know if you want to be a
star
you know track runner you're not going
to just magically
it's not just magically going to happen
you have to put in the work the training
the learning
and when you get real good you start to
learn these little techniques that make
you faster just
from
uh you know your form and things like
that so
not that i'm a track expert but that's
uh
that's that's the best technology i
could come up with off the top of my
head
uh number two
and
you know you guys could probably speak
to this as good as anybody uh and
probably better than most is your
equipment and tools you know how how
how can those items how do the how do
you see those items like
benefiting why is why would you say
that's so important
uh it promotes efficiency man like
you don't have the right equipment
then it's gonna take you two places long
you know and you know when we started
out um we just talked about this here is
um the d cup as simple as it is and and
to put it in perspective is
the very first time that i've ever seen
millwork base and i was responsible for
doing it you know i had zero knowledge
on it and we went out and i'll never
forget the places called uh
marshall manor went out there with a
utility knife
with zero clue and right on the box we
showed the miter saw
and uh the gentleman on site had this
nice expensive finished carpenter miter
saw and he would not let me use it
we didn't have it and we had a knife
everything didn't look good yeah at the
time it probably did for what i could do
with the knife but
once we got a miter saw it made it so
much easier and then all of a sudden
this d cut comes out
and we have to clean up and i can drag
it around and you can show anybody how
to use it so
and you didn't need power
yeah correct you didn't need power and
you weren't cleaning up the mast you
weren't putting plastic up a wall where
you were cutting to protect uh you know
some some wallpaper that had texture to
it
they're just
having the right stuff and the right
tools uh
goes alongside with the right education
how to use that tool
man does it speed things up where did
you see the d cutter first
i don't know i don't even know i think
daniel just had mentioned something
about d-cut uh we probably went to like
an open house
and seen it and we probably dismissed it
like oh no wait that's no way and then
the demonstration was like
really
so i seen it at a show
i can't remember what show it was but
i've seen it at a show first
so
like go to open houses and go to shows
if you can make it
that's where you're going to see the
most innovative stuff
i one of the things
that i can think of is
the um
the welder
leicester came out with the
the 90 degree angle uh tip
that little thing
turned out i bought it at a show
it turned out to be
absolutely
wonderful it was a great buy
i was heat welded in some flash cove
yesterday and the the toe kick was only
about i don't know it was less than four
inches off the ground i think so i
didn't have that the little gun as well
as that 90-degree tip
yeah getting under cabinets
yeah getting under cabinets in a uh
medical facility you know
sometimes those toe kicks are in farther
than normal
and i tell you what it's come in super
handy my point is just
like keep your mind open for tools if
you can make it to some shows or open
houses or get into your distributor and
asking them what's new
it's it can save a ton of time right
right tell me you know uh investing in
the tools like
simple back to the knee pads
invest in a good pair of knee pads save
your knees for a long time i didn't wear
knee pads to the point where
it looked like i had two knee caps
and i thought that was normal no i'm and
then you you invest into some knee pads
and then you're like man my knees and my
back don't have to feel as bad as they
have been
if you're early on in the career and you
see someone with knee pads
just ask them like even if you think
you're against it just ask them because
long term holy smokes
same thing with a
polish my first six seven years i didn't
carry a punch i put in my back pocket
you know put knives in my bag pocket or
lose tools here leave them
in a classroom down the hall around the
corner do you ever cut yourself
oh yeah cut the bottom of my butt cheek
a few times yeah
cut a hole in the pocket and the carpet
blade would fall through and cut my cab
when i was walking
i'm like oh man guys it's time to switch
pockets i wish i had a leather pouch i
could stick this thing in and that would
have been great right
how convenient so just yeah so i mean
not only will
uh invest in an equipment make you
faster and more efficient it will save
your butt cheeks
yes apparently
uh so
the the next one you guys
you know have invested in your employees
um i believe that's
up there on the list uh investing
from a training perspective um
but you know
the end of the day it's it's caring
uh about them caring about them um
you know
trying to help them succeed
uh advancement opportunities and
and how can you
um
you know
for us it's it's like several years ago
it's been probably five years ago
we started offering full
health insurance paid by the company for
all uh installers and that work for our
company by the hour that are employee
installers um company-wide that
you know we invested in that a half
decade ago or whatever um so investing
in your employees you know
will create loyalty but also
you know we want the best life form that
we can
you know
help them to achieve we can't force
anybody to achieve but
setting setting them up for success as
best as we know how and
listening and hopefully having some open
dialogue so your employees obviously
having good employees that can perform
the duties that you need them to do
whether it's install or in the office an
admin um those are good places to put
your money as well
it's hard not to right because yeah
if you have a bus and you're the driver
but you don't have any wheels you know
you kind of got to find the right team
to help you maintain that vehicle to get
from point a to point b and
um if you're not willing to
put some kind of uh investment towards
your employees i i highly doubt that
they're going to stick around for you
and on the other hand
um
individuals entrepreneurs uh gentlemen
working for themselves and maybe making
a transition from uh
self-employed to employee there there's
there is a difference right like
when we made the transition
it was
a different mindset um we were still
thinking
like we were self-employed and we're
treating the whole thing like we were
self-employed but once we started
transitioning we started thinking
uh
more employee classification and then
everything else that came along with it
um
it started opening up our eyes to to a
couple of different uh avenues that we
weren't taking
um but we did have the luxury of working
with a company who did
classify us as employees and they did
have benefits and you know and you know
can't say that we have original ideas
but it was great to be able to work with
a company like that to
to give us some ideas you can take away
the things you do like
um from situations like that kind of
play what what what was your
what did you guys
when you first started out on your own
you had helper
or a couple helpers or or whatever what
what did investing in your employees at
that time look like what was that
your new gut your your new
company you're going out you got an
installation business
you're going to start subbing through
shops maybe
you know grabbing some work direct
what is your what was your what did it
look like for you guys to invest in
employees at that time
i think it was more of a thank me in my
check type mentality hey thanks man for
doing a great job really thank me in my
check you know i mean so it was more
um just adding additional funds to
their
their check or or
um early on it was a lot of uh
giving them rides to picking them up
from their houses and stuff like that
you take what you can get
so it was working with uh working with
them to
help them be successful in one way or
another whether it's getting them to the
job or or um which i'm sure everybody on
this call
um both
us and anyone watching that's in
flooring can probably relate to going
and
waking up an installer to get them in
the truck and get them in the job so
hopefully uh you know that climate
changes a little bit um
you know my hope is that
the installation community starts to
really take some steps forward here to
get themselves trained to to um utilize
the
the the
you know tools at their disposal to
to get trained
uh and start caring about
your career not just about getting a
check at the end of the week
a check is great that's how we prove
that we we we have given somebody value
is the money but really the goal has to
be something
a little different maybe bigger
which is being the best that you can be
at whatever you chose to to be in i mean
the fact is you're in flooring you chose
it i know a lot of us believe that
boring
[Laughter]
you know a lot of a lot of the people
that we've met along our journey
um
are
in the trade they would stay by accident
right now flooring chose us
um
but those guys have been in it for a lot
longer than we had and
yeah they made some good decisions early
on and
i can't say that we're not taking the
advice from them because anytime we're
sitting there and learning even from you
you know we take advice from you as well
because you've already been through it
you've been through something we haven't
and uh yeah it's just nice
so uh we
we've got
yourself your tools and equipment your
employees i put savings
next like
at some point you have to start
socking a little away you got to start
putting a little bit of money away
um there's other way you know i know
you know financial advisor but i can
tell you saving you know close to 10
percent of your your money each week can
come in real handy during a market
downturn or a few weeks of
of a job canceling on you or whatever so
you know for your own well-being as well
as your families
i honestly believe savings is a piece
that
nobody really likes to save money
i mean we like we really enjoy spending
money but
how much do we like to save money
um
i know that that can be a a
struggle but if you can make it
automatic 10 out of your check whatever
you earn go into savings uh
or somewhere around there that's been a
good practice i didn't honestly start
doing that until
it's kind of almost sad to say probably
10 years ago i was probably
32 or 35 before i really started putting
back
any significant amount of savings
i didn't have anybody tell me how
important it was
i could have
you know when i was making 600 bucks a
week i could have put 60 bucks a week
away
and um
but i didn't i didn't really understand
the importance of it
so if you on this call don't understand
the importance of it i'm just telling
you it it can change your life uh you
can really
um
you know
if it keeps going great and things are
going up and you don't have to tap into
your savings that's awesome now you have
a little nest egg that you can invest in
some manner uh give it a financial
advisor and start talking to them but
don't think that you can't go talk to a
financial advisor like that's another
big piece just go talk they're they're
free to talk to yeah they they all want
to give you that information for free
and then once you're to that point
you're like all right i can't do it by
myself
that's where they start making
their money yeah i'd challenge everybody
on the call go call a financial advisor
tomorrow just talk to them chat with
them
you know
i know the stock market and the economy
sucks right now especially equities and
and you know bond rates aren't great
aren't great either which is an anomaly
in our economy you know both are going
down right now
but
this is the time when you start
investing that things
you make your money in these downturns
you invest now
it has to go back up eventually
so
um
yeah so and that kind of flows right
into the next one which is investments
in in that case i'm not talking about
you know financial instruments as an
investment i'm talking about investing
back in your company and technology
or
more employees or more
you know we already talked about tools
and equipment but a little bit more like
that specialty equipment
that can make you some major money we
bought a demo machine probably it's been
eight or ten years ago tomatoes a ton
of money
and so
i know other installers that have made
that investment 40 grand or their about
investment into a right on demo machine
i know guys that you know they reach out
to me they're like all i want to do is
demo i'm like too bad
yeah
we need you to install steel
but
yeah it's a it's um
but what i mean
is you guys invested your time and
effort into technology to make your
communication better that's what go
career is all about is a piece of
technology that can help you run your
company and your installation labor
better and keep better track and and and
make sure you have the right talent on
the right job
but there's plenty of other software out
there
um
from different accounting systems to
project management systems we use a
product called structure which is
an accounting project management
software uh also we use slack for
interoffice communications to help keep
our email inboxes just for clients
and and things like that so we're not
emailing each other back and forth i
think there's 30 some employees in our
company right now
all those emails back and forth
it's you know we use slack to keep our
inbox clean
you guys use i believe microsoft teams
for a lot of stuff like that too i mean
there had to be an investment in time
and effort to put that together
that was it
yeah it's kind of something involving
just like you know anything in business
it's if it's not evolving that means
you're doing something wrong right
well you're not pushing the envelope
much if
in that case but yeah i agree
well that you know that's that's where
the progression here is you start off as
an installer you start with tools you
start with
and then your first employees and now
you're investing in technologies that
will help your company grow
maybe you got an office manager or
somebody an assistant of some sort
that's helping you and you need
communications
pieces um
so just keep your mind open the real
thing here is
uh one of our core values at stuart
associates is to stay innovative that
we're we want to be on the forefront of
technology and
things that are going to make our
company and our employees more
productive
that's a constant search there's always
new stuff coming out there's always new
things to do
it's a constant search to find the items
that match what your need is
um and
you know i encourage everybody to
you know stay on the
stay on the forefront keep your mind
open um for different things that can
make you better
right and it's it's a mindset switch too
right because when we started it was
always
well
i can't afford this i can't afford to
classify these guys as employees i can't
afford this piece of software
and then yeah we can't afford this
diamond machine
and then it gets to a point where you're
like
i can't afford not to do this yeah
you know it's funny yeah i can't afford
it i remember so this i'm gonna go way
back when we started and we were excited
but when we bought our first welder
uh he welder like
that was expensive to us i think we
spent just over four grand or something
right around four grand and we didn't
really have anything we didn't have any
employees yet
i remember we bought it because i was
like if we don't have it
i can't go after that work like i can't
get the work i'm gonna say now we need
this because now we gotta wait because i
need to get these tools it was like
put it in your pocket put it in your
tool box and then say yes we can do that
but uh we we bought it and the first
thing that we went did was a three foot
repair seam
over at a hospital was a saddle in the
doorway um both of us went we both went
we were excited let's check it out
huge profits yeah yeah yeah um
but
it's just
yeah it's nerve-wracking man it is man
and and
you don't see
the light at the end of the tunnel
until you start getting that vehicle in
motion again right so that's the idea
that's why it's an investment right
that's the idea of investing is delaying
your gratification for that whatever
you're investing in so
that's whether it's money or a tool
you know a lot of people buy something
just like you that
it maybe not pay for itself next week
now i got a great story about my demo
machine i did pay for it in one week by
landing a big job
i was i remember like yesterday i was on
vacation in the bahamas and i called my
rep and i'm like i need that machine
delivered tomorrow
so i was in the situation you're talking
about
avoiding and i had to pay extra
it was a nightmare but we did get the
job done
it went really really well
and it basically that one job paid for
that machine
so there's opportunities out there to
keep your mind open for that stuff too
if you're willing to invest that money
in fact our batteries just went out
on that machine cost six thousand
dollars for new batteries
i know
yeah
but i'll tell you this
we are lost without that piece of
equipment
we have guys we use it so much like
to tear it by hand we have like
you should tear this up by hand well
yeah four inch strips or a ford scraper
or two inch trips
no way i would quit yeah we know
yes you would
yeah that's why we have two of them now
too is if one goes down
we still got that that back up yeah i
need to get another you guys are ahead
of me on that
it's crazy like just i need the plan b
job sites sometimes just the amount of
work that can be done
yeah well and you do you know that kind
of goes back to some previous uh
huddles we've had
it does add to your professionalism you
pull that sucker up
in a trailer and you pull that thing off
people are like
these guys know what they're doing
or you got 10 guys with
with clamp pullers and
you know spud hoes trying to tear stuff
up or we just call them idiot sticks
that weighted
you know
spades that you'd use to
tear up vct back in the day
well so last i have uh i put it last
because it's the
the the one that i think probably
uh turns people off the most but it
really probably should be number one and
that's taxes
i cannot tell you how many stories i've
heard
of installation companies going under or
coming to me for a hourly job because
they didn't pay their taxes
they didn't track them they they didn't
have
a way to keep up with what they were
earning so that they kind of had an idea
on what to save
back or pull back for taxes and this is
separate from your savings
you know
if you're doing well
as an install company you're going to be
i mean get with a an accountant that's
another thing they are cheap when it
comes to
let's call it a life cycle costs like
yeah they're expensive by the hour but
when you need them by for that hour
they're cheap
so
get yourself set up correctly
and make sure you're you're pulling you
know you have your account helping you
understand how much you need to keep
back on taxes and make your
make your uh you know your quarterly
payments or whatever
however you you guys want to do that
that's
up to each individual person or each
individual company but i would tell you
if you are not keeping track of that and
making it a priority i didn't early on i
got in tax trouble
bad tax trouble i was able to pull
myself out of it but
i know i've i've sat with you guys and
talked in the past i know you've had
your problems so this isn't something
that
a few it's almost like every installer
i've ever talked to almost has either
major tax problems currently or
or has had them in the past
i haven't been
you had them in the past
listen
listen everybody
pay your taxes
find a way
to charge more money take some of the
techniques we talked about before about
making more money
increasing your your your value to the
industry so that then you can demand
more
and
by all means you know
a good place to start is around 25
you could be all the way up to 35
you know i think the top tax rates like
39
so i guess you could get all the way to
that level
you have to know kind of where you're at
but if if at the very least you're doing
25
get with your accountant make sure you
got your deductions you're taking
advantage of all the tax code that's
there for you to take advantage of
and then after that
maybe you're less than 25
but
at the end of the day if it ends up at
30 or 35 you're almost there you don't
have a huge tax bill
so this goes back to the whole software
thing too because you can keep track of
that stuff for your account to actually
let you know this is how much you should
be keeping
you know back because without if you
just got a shoe box full of receipts
that you turn in at the end of the year
you don't you're not
yeah
well
a number but is it accurate who knows
unless you buy it
that was me
and that's a benefit of
working you know for example in go
carrera is you have reporting on the
back side of that that at least allows
you to understand it's not an accounting
system but it at least allows you to
understand what you've
uh billed and what you've been paid and
you can track that in your in your
in the the payments account everything
so at the very least you know what your
revenue is
and
um you know in the future we're going to
give some ability to track expenses so a
very low level
um
type of accounting but if you're just
you or two guys and a helper or
something it will suffice and really
help you keep track of where you're at
as you get more sophisticated and you
need to have a full on accounting system
like
quickbooks or something i know a lot of
companies use quickbooks i know i
believe you guys do don't you we use
quickbooks yep yeah and and
that's come a long way so
yeah you're right daniel 100
like use you're gonna have to invest in
technology to be able to
um
you know accurately track
where you're at both from an expense
deductions all that kind of stuff all
your shoe box full
of receipts if i could go back in time
if i go back in time and do it all over
again from day one even if it was just
me and daniel starting out
we should definitely just just have that
just in case because you don't want to
wait till you need it then learn how to
use it right you want to make sure that
you understand the inner workings of it
so that way as you grow
your knowledge grows with it and you're
able to make those adjustments because
uh
even if you're a sole proprietor one
individual like
make it easy on yourself man that's a
super easy investment
yeah i mean
that's again that's what an investment
is is putting something into something
before you need it a lot of times
um
or are you not necessarily like i did
the demo machine
or you can spend all that time at the
beginning of every year trying to get
everything together and you know two
weeks into trying to consolidate all
your paperwork and your receipts when
you could have spent two weeks uh
finding more work or two weeks working
on a project
um you know you'll save yourself a lot
of headache that it's definitely worth
it
yeah
yeah so
i mean
that that's the
the six biggest items i
i have on my list um
and you guys had a lot of the same stuff
it sounds like
i think that
one really important thing to understand
is don't spend all the money that you
make
yeah there's plenty of places to invest
it that'll make you more successful
long-term
help your image help you earn more money
be more efficient
all these things are really important
when you're running a company
and
the last thing i'll say is that there's
so many installer
uh companies out there installation
companies
that do not operate as companies that
that do not even view themselves as a
company
if you're even if you're a sole
proprietor
you can be a company you are the company
at that point but
you have to operate like one again
that's an investment if you're if it's
just you and you you plan on growing
your installation business to
40 guys and being a super sub for
you know medical facilities or whatever
your goal is
you have to start operating as such
don't don't wait until you have to do it
to do it
you know do it ahead of we did
yeah like we did don't do what we did
we're trying to help
trying to tell you guys
the stuff we did wrong
so
well let me
let me uh what's your guys is you guys
got anything else say before we open it
up for questions
no all i was gonna say was uh
uh you learn more about it by other
people's mistakes and your mistakes than
you do by all your successes so
um
you know it doesn't happen overnight and
it doesn't happen on accident
people don't see the failures behind the
success they just see the success so
just know that that's one thing that i i
like to say is you got to stop saying
that i can't afford it and you got to
start changing your mindset and saying i
can't afford not to do something
because it's like you said it's an
investment and it's just going to grow
from from wherever you're at now
yep
yeah it's a
it's a um
it's an interesting dichotomy on what to
do with money because money is like
fire if it's in your pocket so if you
don't get it reinvested to make more of
it um
you know you end up not having any
i've watched it for too many times so my
my
hope is that
any install companies out there that
are listening that you make sure you're
operating as a company that you you know
are
reaching out to accountants and getting
your deductions and and take advantage
of being a company
there's a lot of stuff out there that
you can learn
uh it's just a matter of investing that
time and effort so
let's move on to uh some questions
see what we got here
okay we had a question come in
um how do you recover or bounce back
from a year of not correctly handling
your money
it's hard
yeah it's hard to bounce back
but uh
really
that that saving is i think what kind of
saved us at one point because
we were
we were at least smart about one thing
is we got to put this money away
taxes and savings and then
once you figure out hey we're not doing
too hot and then you got to fall back on
that savings
and then you can kind of
take a look at the big picture and be
like all right this is what wasn't
working this is what has to change and
then you have that cushion in order to
be able to do that yeah and um if
they're referring to like uh textures
and all that um as far as uh falling
behind and not paying uh their estimate
or their quarterly
um
not a lot of people do what i did but i
called them said hey mr irs i think i
owe you some money um and they're like
yeah you're under the radar of course
and so i opened up that kind of worms
myself right but
well kudos
sorry to interrupt you but kudos because
that just keeps snowballing and
snowballing they're not to go away
yes i was i was definitely
there was a lot of years involved in
that right so
um
the way that i personally did it because
i didn't want it to affect anything else
that we were building or my or
uh my family my future um is is i made
phone calls and i i i made payment plans
with the irs i uh
i basically put myself out there you
know vulnerability right humility i said
hey i've made some mistakes i'd like to
correct them but i can't
afford to correct them right now today
what can we do
so that way i can start correcting it
right and um
you might not like what they have to say
but you know
they really want you to correct it so
they are more than willing to work with
you whether you do it on your own or
hire an attorney
um to help with some of those
corrections uh it's just a matter of
taking that initial step but just just
be ready to put yourself in a position
you're going to be uncomfortable for a
little bit
yeah
just to add to that
don't run
don't don't avoid
you'll find it head-on
they will find you
face it head-on and make a payment plan
uh
you know i went through it and
i
sincerely wish i would have had some
guidance and not went through it but i
did
and it's about making a payment plan and
then you make a little chunk of money on
a good job and you pay the sucker down
and you know you just chip away at it
the real
key is to not run
and face it and
jose just gave you a great example of
that call them like you know if you
haven't paid your taxes
i'm not saying you know how much to pay
but you know if you haven't filed in
three years or something
like go ahead and call them
i know a guy that
even though he did do that you know it
was a bit of a struggle
um but he's faced up to it and went
ahead at it and he's about there or he
is there
so those are
from a that's from a tax standpoint if
if you have a rough year like i'm
assuming that question was about taxes
um but
you know if you have a rough year where
you're not really
you know
making money it's it's time to back up
assess and address the problem
um
i'm
i encourage people to be warriors there
like it's gonna sometimes it gets tough
you gotta get up early and stay late
sometimes to make things happen and make
the money you need to make to be a
profitable business
and um sometimes you just gotta strap up
the boots and get after it
and we're in the age right now to where
there's groups out there and reach out
to someone ask a question
everyone
is more than willing to give information
we've all been through something so
yeah just posting a group hey this is
what i'm going through and then
like myself i've
there's been plenty of times where
you know because sometimes you go in
these groups and people just want to
be yes
with
comments that don't matter
so i just reach out through a message
and
and talk to them that way that way they
they know it's like i'm not
i don't want to deal with everything
that's going on but i just want to let
you know
this is what's going on this is what we
did stuff like that
yeah and it might not be relatable to
anybody right because you know
the direction that we went and we might
have taken the long way around compared
to some people who might have been able
to find a way to streamline some results
but
um you know that was the only
way for us at the time it was our only
path at that time and uh once we started
the path it would have taken us longer
to veer back
to start another one so we just
push forward
well the key sounds like it's
just that you pushed forward towards
resolution so
see what other questions we have here
okay there's another question
asking what would be the first step or
resource
that can be used to get ahead of them
for their financial responsibilities
to get ahead for their financial
responsibilities
yeah what would be their first step or
their first resource that they can use
talk to an accountant we already kind of
touched on that it wasn't until
like
our account actually helped us to
restructure the way that we were set up
so that way we
essentially save a bunch of money on
taxes
and
that money helped offset the cost of the
employees that we had
so
just you know
going to them and like i said he talked
to us for free before we were like all
right we're on board yeah they're they
yeah they want you to give your clients
right and he didn't he didn't put us in
the position to where he was
um
the deductions kind of were overbearing
it made us look like our annual income
was lower right because our net worth we
can you want to make sure that you are
doing it in a fashion
so you can still go qualify for a loan
uh your personal income versus your
business income if you go that route
um it's good enough to get the loans and
make your
net worth
um
enough to qualify for them and i mean
obviously credit scores involved but
that's another talk um
just understand what you're doing and
what your end goal is
um and then they'll lead you in that
direction then the other thing i would
say is to
it goes back to the software you know we
use quickbooks but there's plenty of
other things out there you can go using
excel spreadsheet or google docs you
know
but
tracking
what you're making and what you're
spending
so you have to know what's coming in and
what's going on because if you don't a
lot of things get lost in translation so
the more information that you track the
better off you are
in the long run to know
when something's going wrong
or
that that's really when something's
going wrong so that way you know all
right something has to change
ahead of time before it starts getting
too bad and it's never too early to
start that
no and then you're going to babysit
right yeah don't wait
to do it
like it's never too early to
start tracking what you make
and
um
what
what expenses you have and then what's
left over and talking to an accountant
so that you can reduce your taxable
income
uh is is important but i would say like
the probably the most elementary answer
to that is
what we've talked about in this call
save ten percent
put back 25 percent and and make your
quarterly or
some
uh standard
uh pay into
on taxes
uh and invest in
in equipment and tools that are going to
make you more money i would say what
we've talked about on this call is a
great spot to start
even if you don't talk to an accountant
if you track your expenses track your
income
save some money
and put back money for taxes
uh your your light years away ahead of
where i started and where what i'm what
i did for the first five or six years
right and that's where i you know that i
say it's baby stuff because
you just have to start getting in a
rhythm of
doing these things in order to keep on
doing them right you got to make it a
habit yeah and then once it becomes a
habit then then it's easier to go back
and be like okay now i need to track
this or now i need to break down
you know these costs per job and then
we're still not into not to a spot yet
to where we feel comfortable or we're
tracking enough stuff so
it's just continuously going and being
like all right once i get in the habit
of this i can go back and then start
tracking the next thing so that way
next year at this time i'll know where
i'm at with that
we'll just keep improving right
like you said
like do it
don't don't think that you have to wait
to you're going to be perfect at it to
start start
get better each year eventually you get
there we had a comment come across here
that that says uh contractors need to
understand their overhead first and
foremost
they need to know what it will cost to
live
you have to put all this together so you
can
know how to charge appropriately and
figure out your taxes
uh yeah for sure i mean overhead and
cost expenses
is important early on you may not have
much true overhead
uh when i started it was just me and a
and a helper
and
you know i started subbing when i
actually opened the company and we got a
little office now we got overhead and we
had to know what our expenses were and
when you get to that point
it's good to figure out what your
breakeven point is how much do you need
how much revenue at your regular
um
profit margin
how much revenue do you have to make to
break even now you have a goal of where
to break even
and then north of that
is profit
you know
we found that as we grew and got bigger
and bigger and bigger
our profit
uh timeline got farther and farther down
the year
it wasn't until the last quarter of the
year that we actually started to pull in
the profit for the entire year
up to that point even though we're
profitable we're we're making money
every month the bottom line is
you they're from a yearly basis you have
a a break-even point
and i would encourage anybody you know
know what your break-even point is and
then you kind of know where where you
need to drive north because at some
point if your overhead are somewhat
fixed
and you
you you increase your
um
your revenues versus that stagnant
overhead
that's when you hit profit so
any other questions
oh we got kyle
raise
well that was my my comment so um uh i
can't turn my video on if you want to
turn my video on i can uh you can see my
face but uh awesome
hey i don't disagree sir um so what i
was going to say is you were talking
about early on you didn't have a lot of
overhead and i i i slightly disagree
with that and i think it's overlooked
okay so
when i when i'm talking about overhead
your truck is your overhead your tools
are your overhead your trailers your
overhead the employee is is overhead
like there's way more expenses than what
people are are looking at in my opinion
especially if you do have an employee
right now you're adding in workman's
comp matching taxes
you have your general liability
you have any other insurances for your
your truck uh i put insurance on my
trailer i've got
insurance on my tools so all this stuff
starts adding up and it's more like i
think a lot of guys look at it they're
like okay well i need to make
75 000 a year and that breaks down to x
amount of dollars per day well that's
great except you forgot about the taxes
and everything else i want to be able to
buy a new 30 000
used truck every five years
so that's built into my overhead i'm not
paying for that out of my seventy five
thousand dollars that would be foolish
right because
it's a business the trucks it's the
businesses truck so it needs to pay for
the thirty 30 000 truck every every five
years i i have my tools on a on a
five-year replacement plan if i take
care of them can they last longer than
that
sure but
we have to know what it costs and then
that money's there so if i'm not reaping
again how did you go about that i i
completely agree uh how did you go about
um assessing that early on when you had
a ban and some tools or a truck and some
tools
and uh you you figured the replacement
costs for tooling and things like that
which is very
uh much a
um
overhead item that
you know typically comes a little later
but
certainly the vehicle and the tools and
such
uh that's pretty pretty uh cool idea to
think to put together a uh expense so to
speak
for a tool replacement
yeah how'd you go about that
so i'll be honest that i came up with it
maybe like a year ago
and it was just i have a knack for
numbers like i just early on i was asked
by somebody that i was in a bni group
with and they were like what's your
what's your like
break-even point for a day and i was
like ah it's like 500 bucks they're like
well how do you know i was like i just i
know
and so i went and sat down with my
bookkeeper and it turns out it was 500
bucks but that was
breaking dead even like taxes were
covered expenses were covered everything
and so
as i got better and i started charging
more um i really started looking at it
and i kept seeing people how do i what
do i charge what do i charge right in
all these different groups and so
i developed a spreadsheet and i was just
like okay folks i need help like what
are the expenses that it costs you to
run your business like start throwing
everything in the kitchen sink at me and
i i put together a comprehensive list on
a spreadsheet
and i figured out if it was an immediate
expense
then that comes out as a business
expense that year
if it's something like your tools or
your truck and you're having to save
that money up year over year then
there's a there's a column in it that
you can market as taxable because you're
going to pay taxes on that money sitting
there
and so
it takes into account you know
20 30 things and if you have things that
you need to add you can add them in if
you have a shop space you can put that
cost in if you have
um
multiple trailers or something you can
you can sit there and customize this to
it and it was just me thinking about
what does it actually take
to run a business because when you're
when you're talking with contractors
great artisans not always great at
business and a lot of things go
overlooked and i and really enjoy that
side of the of it and so i like trying
to put together these tools to help
further
other people to be more successful
there's no reason that
installers should be living paycheck to
paycheck no it's it's there's no excuse
in my mind whatsoever and this is a tool
to
push them forward let me caveat to that
is to say that you know as we've talked
in this discussion that it's never too
early to start
what i'm what i'm trying to
encourage people especially installers
who are getting going is
they may not have a truck
two trailers and all the tools
understanding your expenses should start
the day you decide to start
subcontracting or going out and doing
uh you know performing as a company
if you're doing that it's never too
early to start
tracking expenses
tracking revenue and understanding the
difference
you
have some years of experience to
fine-tune that stuff i've got 25 years
and we have
you know accountants that
we know exactly what we have to bill
every month to break even and anything
north of that is gravy baby right and we
understand those numbers but don't think
you have to get
you know become some big company or some
big you know even installation like you
have to do a million dollars a year in
installation to to to do this you need
to do it regardless of whether your your
your you're billing out 200 000 a year
or if you're billing out 10 million a
year you need to understand your
expenses versus revenue
100 if you don't understand what you're
bringing
to the table
and you don't understand where the
money's going then how do you know what
to bring in
you're just guessing at everything
and that's not you're not doing yourself
any
favors in that aspect you know right
it's actually saved us
to because i have a spreadsheet for
employee costs right and it's it's
actually saved us because it's like
why do you why do you guys have to
charge this much hourly well because
this employee costs this much and if i
don't charge you this much i'm pretty
much paying you to go work for you right
now that doesn't make any sense so it
just goes back to the the more you track
the more you know
yep
no i agree i don't think that's done
enough right i think doing time studies
is utterly important to a contracting
business just because
you get you know you go and you look at
a job you're like
that's 10 minutes that'll take an hour
that'll take 15 minutes and then you go
and do it and it was
five hours total
and you bid it one way and then it took
you a totally different amount of time
the numbers don't work
so yeah and it certainly gets more
sophisticated when you're doing
per job like if you're going out to a
project and bidding
you know a home or or someone
when when you don't when you're working
direct with whether it's the homeowner
or direct with gcs or things like that
it it it frankly the sophistication
that's needed at that point should go up
it's going to take um
you know more more
you have to start thinking about if
you're going to work with you know gcs
or or or something like that to pay
every 30 to 90 days you got to start
thinking about your your backlog and
your
you know cash on hand to be able to
finance that that work and that gets
really complicated because you're
talking about getting with banks for
lines of credit and all this kind of
thing
but
what is important i think is
that just getting the baseline when you
first start out if you baseline this
thing and your you track all your
expenses you track your revenue and you
know what your breakeven point is that's
a great starting point and just like
kyle's mentioned you can get and you
know daniel and jose
you you you increase your level of
sophistication with this as you grow but
don't wait
look that's the biggest thing i've seen
i've seen guys get you know
eight or ten guys underneath them and
they're they're pulling uh two million
three million dollars in in installation
only
and
they got way behind because they never
did any of this uh tracking never paying
their taxes didn't even know what it was
gonna cost
uh from a tax standpoint or what their
obligations were so
yeah great stuff kyle thanks for the
comments man i i think that's um
valuable input and at the end of the day
my encouragement to everybody is really
to get started right when you start your
business and don't wait till like i did
you know
four or five years later i'm trying to
figure everything out
i no thank you thank you for letting me
on i i appreciate it i i think you're
right
the earlier you start the the better off
you're going to be and you're talking
about some things that i know even
daniel and jose have have
going on and and they're looking at how
do we track
our expenses and and put you know figure
out cash flow for the next 30 60 90 days
and book projects around that and like
it you're right it's never too early to
start in that
you need to understand your business
that you you opened a business
and now you have to act like an actual
business owner you're not an installer
anymore you want to be an installer go
be somebody's employee because that's
the only time you're an installer in my
opinion i'll hire you
yeah
even if you're subcontracting you still
own a business and yeah so like it's
sorry you own a business you need to act
like you own one the store handing you a
work order doesn't mean
that you're just an installer that's not
how this works so correct it's all great
advice and that's where you know a quick
plug for go carrera the the fact is is
when you get a work order from a go
carrera company
there's a negotiate button there
use it if you need it use it negotiate
the work to what you think you can do
the job for
too many shops try to prescribe the cost
our our platform
has the
change order and negotiation features
for that reason is you are a company if
you're a sub if you have to make more
money now
who knows what shop we there's
you know several uh companies on the go
career platform but
so who knows whether or not you're
pricing yourself out or not but the fact
is if you have a good hammer rating a
good kudos score in the system you're
going to have more power to negotiate
and
you know make the money you need to make
from any shop
that being said guys thanks everybody
for joining us today we've ran out of
time i want to give a special thank you
to daniel and jose for joining us again
kyle thanks for your input we super
appreciate it and everybody who
had
questions uh
come back next tuesday we'll be um you
know i forget what is our
um
do you remember
i forget what our our uh topic is next
tuesday but join us at three o'clock
central time and uh we appreciate
everybody and i hope you got a little
bit of value out of this
so next week it's uh learning and
excelling
learning and excelling
we'll uh
further that one
a little further description by next
week so
yeah all right everybody thanks be on
the lookout for an email for next week's
um huddle
thanks for joining see you guys
The Huddle - Episode 4 - Increasing Your Prices
This week Paul talks with Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring about the ways to go about raising your prices, when to do it, and how to understand your value in order to do so.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up guys welcome to the huddle
where we discuss maintaining forward
progress in your flooring career
i'm paul stewart and joining with me
today is jose
and
jose's with preferred flooring in
michigan
um
we appreciate everybody joining us and
uh
just a quick housekeeping a couple
things got any questions click the q a
button and chat your questions and we'll
address those as we go
so
today's episode 4 and we're going to be
discussing understanding your value and
how to increase your prices
um
jose welcome how's it been going brother
hey another week in the life of jose so
it's uh it's been going pretty good uh
we're
busy
busy busy busy right now you know
everybody's uh
a little bit behind
of course is uh you know
the whole shipping issues are putting
everyone in a bad spot and then yeah
lack of uh
lack of trained
um
help is is also putting everyone in a
bad spot but we're pushing through man
well discussing that i mean one of the
things um
you know
when you're trying to increase prices or
um you know i think the first step is
understanding your value and having the
confidence to increase your prices
well where does confidence come from
you know it comes from training
and it comes from
uh certifications and it comes from
experience
right 100
airline pilots the more time they spend
in a simulator the better they perform
as a pilot
so their training
makes them better and more confident
pilots right it's a repetition
that's right so
training and certifications i've heard a
lot of guys say well i don't make any
more money because of that well
if you'll if you'll consider the amount
of confidence that it breeds
because you are properly trained
and you add that with some experience
and now you have a good recipe for
confidence where you have the ability
to you know ask for more
and negotiate you know i took down
i mean i took a few uh
wrote down a few points here that you
know negotiating your prices whether
you're within goku or not
um in the go career network or or you're
not the key here is that you have the
confidence so what are you bringing to
the table that other installers are not
right that's where that's where that
confidence would come from so what's
your take on some of those things
um well the take is that you know
regardless of if you're going to get
certifications or not if you are well
versed in a specific material for the
insult
you you get better right your systems
your operations you get more efficient
faster you you have the tendency to not
accidentally skip steps or intentionally
skip steps because you know the outcome
um so it it leads to a more successful
install
um
everything is very systematic in what we
do and
the
the more you do it the more repetition
you get the more efficient which means
the more valuable you are not to only
um the client and either the flooring
house or your own company but to
yourself
what you're doing is you're putting
yourself in a position
to be aware of the material limitations
uh expectations
um and also
give time back to both uh the client to
yourself you know something that used to
take five days
takes four days now
now should you
you can charge the same amount but
you're done a day early you should
charge the same amount in fact it's more
valuable to most companies
if you're able to do the same amount of
flooring
in a shorter period of time than
somebody else now i know there's
you know there's been times where i've
had clients say
and i'm sure you have two where it's
like well it only took you five hours to
do this we expected it to take two days
uh can i get a discount my my
exact answer is no you're not paying me
for
and this may sound cliche but this is
the truth you're not paying me just to
do the job you're paying me for the 25
years of experience to get this job done
in five hours and not two days yeah and
i've been able to i in because of that
i'm able to turn over your project
quicker with higher quality
and uh better guarantees so
you know
those are ways
if you if you can lower your time frame
and increase your prices that's
compounding that's like compounding
interest so now you spent five hours
instead of 14
you got paid five dollars a foot instead
of four
and you've compounded your your your uh
pay your your total um
i guess you'd call it like your hourly
rate if you wanted to bring it down into
an hourly rate you're you're increasing
that so
i'm sorry
you mentioned
you know knowing the product and whether
you're trained or certified but that
knowing the product
um
and having experience as being a key
piece would you say that training and
certifications though are a shortcut to
that um
you know what nothing is more of a
shortcut than actually getting your
hands
dirty right like diving in and getting
elbow deep
however
certifications and additional training
can only
speed up the process you know what it
does is it it brings
to light certain scenarios that you
might not have known about
or if
say you've been working with the
material for you know five years six
years and then all of a sudden you
decide to go take a certification class
you might have a aha moment and and you
know it's not you might you will have an
aha moment there are going to be about a
dozen projects in your head that pop in
and you say if i would have known that
prior to this day right here i could
have avoided these issues i could have
saved this much time i i would have had
that in my toolbox that mental tool box
is very important
when it comes to creating any efficient
systems
of insulation whether it's yourself or
with a crew it's super important to have
that
yeah
well what i found um in my experience is
those aha moments like you said always
happen
uh we've sent guys to certifications
that have been doing it for 15 20 years
and they're like
i didn't think i was going to learn
anything i was checking a box and
i learned a ton i learned
two or three you know things that equal
a ton meaning there are very important
pieces
that they learned in that training or
that certification that can save them
ample time and and effort and make them
more money so
um
you know you never know what nugget
you're gonna pick up that could save you
um you know a lot of time a lot of
effort get better quality
all
with uh moving for the effort i mean
everybody in flooring would like to make
more money so at the end of the day
if that's
like one of the goals is how do we get
paid our values worth
then how do we get there and in in my
experience
having the training the certification
mixed with the experience is
that's like the secret recipe now i know
that you know there's a lot of guys that
have a lot of experience but they just
don't know what they don't know when
they argue that they don't need a
training so anyway i've beat that up
enough i mean i just believe in being
trained per industry standards not to
mention if something goes wrong
and you have a failure
and it's not
a and we'll get into this in another
episode but working with uh you know
inspectors and such oh yeah you know
i'll tell you what
being certified and trained certainly
helps you
if um
if you get into one of those scenarios
and you will get into one of those
scenarios
do you understand acclimation and why
do you understand proper adhesive trials
and flashing times and all that and why
do you understand thermoplastic
materials and lvts and dimensional
stability and all of that stuff that
that's the kind of thing you learn in
trainings that you don't learn you might
learn how to lay something out and put
things together to where when it's done
it looks good but what are we talking
about we're talking about getting
giving a product that's going to last
the consumer
and in our case it's commercial in your
case commercial um
end user
for the the length of time that they
expect which is 10 to 15 years right not
not
when you walk away it looked good so a
lot of these things
that i just spoke of are the things you
learn in the certifications and
trainings that you just will not learn
from your uncle you may learn the proper
technique on how to trial
how to
square up lines how to lay out
those things you might learn but you
probably will not learn how the products
manufactured what makes one lvt
just to pick on lvt because there's a
thousand of them yeah
what makes one lvt better than another
what is it they look the same
in school instructions
why does one give you a different
performance than the other
you know and the key is understanding
those met those things so
i'll give you a quick example i we had a
claim
on about 700 foot of lvt and it was
blamed on
uh
improper adhesive transfer
right
well
the transfer was
well documented in the in many many
pictures and so we were able to um deal
with that but because the lou
uh who produces the commercial floor
report
uh one of the things that came out was
look lvt ought to lay there by itself
with no adhesive without gapping
or curling it should be dimensionally
stable you learn those kinds of things
through these reports and as well you
learn those if you go and get certified
in different uh you know flooring
products so
that's my take on um
you know having the confidence to go and
ask uh or negotiate your pricing another
thing is um
you know
believing
that and i wrote this down is believing
enough to be clear on the front side
that look i'm probably not the cheapest
person so if you're coming to me
to be the cheapest installer i'm
probably not your guy
and being okay losing some of that type
of work i know you guys have taken that
tact before we take that attack yep
i just did minutes before we got on the
phone you know
it's just it's what you have to do and
it's
you know it's a confidence thing too
right we when you know what you bring to
the table it's kind of hard to try to
match what everyone else is doing right
you don't
it's it's different
the value
that you the value you see yourself is
always going to be different from what
everyone else sees
no matter what but if you can back it up
and you have a track record of backing
it up then then why not exercise that
muscle why not implement um a program
like that because
it's it's for you you know well it's
your job it's your job to then
convey that information and convey why
you're worth more
so i had written down you know
marketing to these efforts
look you're paying me just like i said
earlier you're paying me for 25 years of
experience and training
you're not paying me for the five hours
of doing your job like you are but
really what you're purchasing is all
this experience training and
certifications that are installers or
back in the day i was certified um you
know
you're that's what you're purchasing so
i
i feel like there's been a
a big uptick in that i know that um
as you know i i created go carrera back
in 2018 and
one of the things we're working on right
now is working with architects to set
minimum hammer ratings well
for those you don't know a hammer rating
is a skill score you you get that's
simply a mix between your years of
experience your certifications and your
trainings
and when you got each one of those
there's a complicated algorithm that
that
that
makes or creates the hammer rating based
on those things but here's my point
architects want some some way to
understand that the installer is
minimally
viable to do their job and so we're
helping helping with that well where
does all that drive from the drives from
your certification trainings and
education
and your experience but it also derives
from your ability to market to those
things so when somebody says
that
look you're too high say i understand
not not as many people and i've used
this before um i get it look
the other company uh or other people
they don't value the the proper training
that the way that steward associates
does so
um
you know proceed at your own risk i
appreciate the opportunity and we'll get
you on the next one maybe but
just as a note we're very rarely going
to be the cheapest person in the room
now
sometimes we are because of purchasing
power um but outside that like i really
want to be hired because our systems and
our our quality is higher than other
people
that's why i want people to see the
value you want to see the overall value
you know the upper cost
it's hard to market yourself when a lot
of people nowadays are looking at
cost and it's not just nowadays it's
been for for ever
um and if you can market yourself with
confidence and
and have them see the value that you
offer
that is not in the numbers up front that
is in the long term value um a lot of
people
actually don't even think twice about
that that's
not even really an issue
well that's an interesting point
and the reason i say that is
you installed back when bct was probably
king of the vinyl world as well right
like i mean i've installed myself
hundreds of thousands of feet of ect
vct is the most affordable product up
front
oh yeah yeah
what the lvt industry and the low
maintenance flooring industry
uh sheet vinyls and such have been able
to do
is life cycle cost so the life cycle
cost of keeping a vct looking good
through waxing
stripping and waxing every year that
kind of thing
and the fact that there's so much filler
in vct that it shrinks and doesn't look
great
they have been able to sell on my cycle
cost
why can't an installer do the same thing
like
you know if we could come up with a
metric of life cycle costs for a
certified installer versus non-certified
or you know highly trained install
installer versus a non-highly trained
like how how quickly do products fail or
yeah how long do your products last i
mean i've never done a study like that
but it'd be interesting i guarantee that
would be almost guarantee you that
the highly trained person's
life cycle cost is lower you're not
replacing that floor because it looks
like
crap
uh in two years or three years and we've
done that we've walked we've went in and
replaced floors behind people just a
couple years old it's supposed to be a
15-year floor but it wasn't installed
properly
bonding issues
wasn't rolled
things like this that caused the product
to fail
and the other company or the other
installer
you know
nowhere to be found and um that leads me
to my third point
stay around
don't change your phone number yeah mark
it to yourself to your phone number to
your
to your brand if it's
jose flooring and not preferred flooring
you're you're an installer and it's jose
gonzalez professional floor
installations
that's awesome but
it
the way you can the only way you market
to something is if something's
consistent so keep yourself consistent
with the naming consistent with your
phone don't change your phone number
every six weeks
keep your phone number same
be consistent and reliable and that goes
a long way with
you know uh being able to raise your
prices as well
right and then um you know i like to add
to that too is uh
um hold yourself accountable right if
you are you know everybody has a
learning curve right everybody goes
through that phase they're still
learning about a product they're really
interested they are putting in the time
and the effort
and things go wrong
hold yourself accountable to that learn
from that it's only a failure if you
don't learn
um you know hopefully it's something
small hopefully you're not
you're your first time getting your feet
wet with a product you're not jumping
into a 25 000 square foot
uh you know lvt job and you know nothing
about it because all you've done is you
know commercial lbt all you've done is
stretch carpet your whole life um but
learn from it take the information that
you gather little bits and pieces and
use it if something goes wrong
go tear it apart while you're removing
it and replacing it
yeah it sucks to have to bite the bullet
and
figuring out why right yeah but but
you're reverse engineering it you're
trying to find out why and what it does
is it it sparks your interests right if
you're like me you want to know you want
to learn so you start reading you start
doing more on the back end when you
should have been on the front end but
then it's those aha moments um you know
and you do it for yourself
um and most of the time
the replacement of it is
you'll gain that back
um either from the client uh
giving you future work or from the store
giving you future work because
you just owned it right hey you know
what i did mess that up i'm sorry uh
we'll make it right let's do what we can
to make it right if it costs you a
couple bucks it does
you know in the past we've had stores
give me the product that they pay for
the product i provide the labor
um you know and i was learning and you
know or something else went wrong
and it's okay it's okay to not be
perfect because you're gonna learn
um
but those are the stores that trust
me a lot now because i was
very honest and said you know what yep
whether it was my fault or not when they
first came up to me and said it i would
just say i am so sorry
let's go check it out and see what we
can do to fix it
that's it i didn't blame anybody else
yeah be there for your client being
there in their hard times when their
floors uh fail i mean they need you
right they don't know what to do they
need you so don't run don't get too
defensive over the deal
yeah i agree with you kind of have that
learner
um kind of mentality let's see what
happened
investigate and then defend yourself if
you're in the right and if you're if
you're not fess up and fix it and learn
yeah
and just so everybody knows man science
doesn't lie so
they will call somebody and they they
will take a very uh neutral approach and
and use science
to to figure out what happened yeah and
by all means use
use uh don't be scared and we'll get
into this another podcast i don't want
to get off into it but you know don't be
scared to hire your own
uh in
inspector uh in fact i think every
installer ought to go through inspection
course
i think that
we're gonna start pushing that at go
carrera we're gonna try to get every
installer to go through an inspection
course
and learn what they're learning so that
you know what to do uh in the cases that
you're you're you know
um having to deal with one so my final
point
uh and
you probably have some too but expand
you know as far as uh being paid more
making yourself more values expand your
offering you know if you're uh if you're
a carpet guy
learn cheap on them or if you're a tile
guy learn large panel you know gauge
porcelain panels
um there's a lot of good training out
there you can reach out to go carrera
support at go carrera and ask
where
to go and and get a certain training
we're in the middle of
developing that full feature where
you'll be able to
at a click of a button right out of the
app go to local trainings in your area
but i would say expanding your offering
we'll
go a long way and doing it in the um
in the
flooring products that are not so
typical we all love big lvt jobs or big
carpetil jobs but i'll tell you what
some of the guys make the best money are
the guys who
really dug down into patterned goods
woven uh wools and sisals and
sea grass and really went and got all
those
certifications and trainings to be able
to like do the theaters and the the
casinos and the
the you know
different really high-end
hospitality work
in sheet vinyl it's one of the highest
demand products with healthcare and
probably has the the biggest demand from
a
from a needs standpoint but the lowest
uh
in supply from installers like high high
quality
flash sheet vinyl guys are hard to come
by
so it's very intimidating
yeah which is very intimidating that's
always well you mess up a piece of vct
you're messing up a nine by thirty six
or six by three whatever its size is you
mess up a piece of
200 yard woven wool carpet you're you're
you could destroy a whole drop so i
understand but that's also because of
that risk is why you're paid a little
bit more uh or a lot a bit more in many
cases so i would say expand your
offering it'll help you stay busy
utilizing those hours that you have um
you know maybe you don't have maybe you
are a sheet vinyl expert
be
learn learn some some tile or learn some
carpet
anything
you can fill your schedule up thus
utilizing your your workable time
uh and you know
fill in work um one of the benefits of
maps in go carrera is if a job cancels
on you or something get on maps and hunt
maybe you know get on there and hunt
around for work
in your area or other areas maybe you
can find a job a couple hours away to
fill your schedule but the key here is
maximize your time
and
and you get there by expanding your
offering
maximize your your experience
um through trainings i mean you can't
buy more years of experience but what
you can do is buy
you can kind of shortcut it with
training and certification so yeah
we're big on that i believe in the the
cfis and the the manufacturers
uh the ntca you know manufacturers put
on a lot of their own trainings like
nora protect all forbo
these companies they have high
high quality trainings
cfi has good trainings they're expanding
their offerings
the ntca and the ntca university
even online you can learn some tricks um
but there's hands-on at cti which is
ctef to be uh cti certified um
i mean there's there's multiple training
entities out there so there's a lot get
getting trained and then getting on go
career to get your trainings aggregated
so you get a good hammer reading and
then get awarded work based on your
hammer rating we've proven one thing in
three years we've been in business
uh and really
you know
just a couple of years with the new
version
is higher hammer rating and higher kudos
equals higher pay it's been proven uh we
have millions of dollars that have been
paid out through the app to date and
with that
date comes data and that data shows that
if you're higher trained you're getting
paid better on that
on in the go career network for sure and
i believe that if you market yourself
even if you're not on the go career
network and that's fine
but
if you're not
market you got to market yourself that's
what goku does is market that that
your hammer rating for you to the
flooring contractors that have
subscribed to our to our platform so if
you're outside
you still need to learn how to market
like these preferred flooring
daniel and jose have done a wonderful
job marketing themselves you have to do
that if you're going to be outside go
carrera and if you if you can get both
like daniel and jose i think the future
is very very bright for you but
um you know what's some other keys to
increasing your pay we got about uh five
minutes or so here left so
um
i think we touched based on some of that
last week with as far as the image and
all that you know
you want to increase your pay you have
to
do what
you can to attract the right demographic
um you know if
it was a dress for the part you want
yeah right so so you gotta kind of do
that and that's not
saying anything
bad about what you're wearing i'm just
you know using that very loosely in just
the term um
that's one dress for success i mean it
doesn't it doesn't mean you wear a suit
to go install floors but i did see
um
sorry to interrupt you but no go ahead
gentlemen at the ntca showed a picture
one time of old installers back in like
the 30s or 40s
and they wore
like suspenders and a dress kind of a
dressier shirt and a tie and they tucked
it into their shirt i mean they were
like
and they were revered on job sites
it's funny when you talk to some people
that's how we want to be treated when we
get on the job sites the only way we can
do it is band together
have a
like you just said image
image right and skill set so
um consistency you know
you're not going to hit the top of a
page in a year or two years of
experience
um you know if
if you stay
if you stay in the industry long enough
you're going to create a
a following so to speak once you create
a following and you know instead of five
companies or five people knowing who you
are five
contractors you know now you have 20 and
then on top of 20 then you have 30. the
more people that know you and what
you're capable of doing
the more people that want you to come
and do their work and when they want you
to come and do their work you have a
little bit of a negotiating power there
right because it's like
you can kind of pick and choose am i
going left or am i going right today you
know or for this month you know
the most profitable project 100
like if you
have to choose at least you can pick the
most profitable one for
the best of your ability
and most profitable isn't always the
largest project it isn't always the
biggest one the most profitable one is
the one that where you can maximize
your
your time and effort
um and
when i say time and efforts maximize
your time on site how much time are you
getting back with your family your free
time as well what is that worth to you
you know value comes in all shapes and
forms and i think that uh
[Music]
that's one to consider as well depending
on if you're an individual installer
versus a company versus someone who's
trying to get
to a specific milestone with employees
or whatnot like
know which which one you're after and
which one you want to go for so so that
way you understand
what direction you should be
concentrating on going
yeah
well i
you know we will get into more like
planning your business and and and doing
some of that stuff
um
but certainly the things that are easy
enough to do that are in your power to
do
is
get trained
um
you know you are in control of what you
put on in the mornings and what you buy
to wear
and
you know
once you're trained you you can utilize
a lot of tactics to increase your your
pay
um be courageous in negotiating your
your your amounts with your stores
and they may or may not be able to do it
we all work on budgets i own a
flooring company and it's not always
that i can
you know afford to pay out a negotiated
amount however
if not
and i can't work with that guy
immediately
sometimes it it it puts a
you know
a little kick in the rear for for our
estimators or our project managers to
kind of look at the numbers and see if
we can squeeze a little bit more
on the next bid to be able to afford to
pay some more so
i want to work with the flooring
industry overall but you know the
installers
of the
the installation community in general
um from a store standpoint from a
flooring contractor you know a
full-fledged or full-service flooring
provider
how do we do this together guys and you
know i create a go career to help the
installers band together in one spot
tout their trainings and their
certifications and
and get hammer rated and and move that
into more money um i'm i'm open ears
when you guys uh have questions please
participate ask questions
jose daniel's uh not wasn't able to join
us today but uh you know he's usually on
and
one of us can at least uh take a stab at
your question
and uh hopefully get you some answers
help you be more successful in your
flooring career so that's our goal
that's our goal with the huddle um
forward progress man like
moving your your career forward and
that's my goal with
go carrera that's my goal with with my
flooring company is just how do we how
do we maintain a long-term
uh
high quality career well to me
what what's good for the installer is
good for the industry and we got to
figure that piece out um and you know
you still got to win bids and you still
got to beat other flooring companies
that don't care about this stuff and i
you know it's something that i know
preferred beats their head up against
the wall doing and sometimes we do too
we do it a lot is fighting
uh companies that don't value the
installation community as as we do
and um so we do our very best
and uh we're open for suggestions and
we're definitely open for any questions
if we can help so jose again thanks for
joining me today dude thanks for your
input yeah any closing thoughts thanks
for having us
um
a couple closing things actually i just
want to kind of piggyback off of what
you said and you had uh mentioned uh get
trained so
thinking outside the box maybe maybe
it's more get educated right just
educate yourself you don't have to
get trained i mean that kind of puts
like a label over you but for the guys
that don't like to be told what to do
because i'll admit that i was one of
them a very long time ago you know very
stubborn
but
um
i didn't necessarily want to get trained
on anything but
if somebody would have came to me you
know 18 years ago and say it and said
get educated
that probably would have changed my
mindset a little bit and just get
educated man uh um educate yourself uh
you know
try to hold a presence
right whether it's
with uh your appearance uh how you
articulate yourself hold that presence
and then confidence will fall into place
once the confidence falls into place
everything else will just start making a
lot more sense
yeah
i i must say
that when you
if you look back on your career though
when when you started to embrace
trainings and certifications it appears
to me from our previous conversations
that that's kind of when it started to
turn though because you got yourself
around people that thought differently
yeah there's there's a lot to that too
just being around people who
think differently than than
you know just the bare minimum sometimes
yeah
you are that's just my two thoughts my
two cents um i believe i i agree with
you getting educated but i i don't think
like we go to school and we go get
every other trade goes and has
trainings and continued education and
those things to to help you
become better i'm not saying it's
required to be a flooring contractor or
a flooring installer i'm just saying it
can help a two-year guy kind of has an
idea what he's doing if he goes and gets
a few trainings and certifications under
his belt and then goes out and applies
more
experience to that
it just seems to me and through our
experience with uh working with hundreds
and hundreds of installers
that that's a pretty good
not recipe
not like 100
every i'm not saying every certified guy
is better than every uncertified guy
that's not true
i'm just
in general if we took a population
versus population
our experience going nationwide doing
flooring projects all over
when we've dealt with certified guys
especially sight unseen like not knowing
them
they we just had a better experience
it's a different thought process and
like you said you um that curve right
like that that tipping point is
um the the old saying you you're a
product of your environment
so
you surround yourself by
uh or with people who are like-minded
it starts to resonate a little bit more
um you know the
through
networking and certifications it did
open
up other doors for us um as a company as
individuals and i'm very grateful for
that but had we
had we never stepped outside of our
comfort zone and thought outside of the
box that was kind of uh
i want to say was built by what everyone
around us was already saying and what
they believed in um we we might not be
having this conversation today so
it's just one of those things like
there's a lot more out there put
yourself in a position to learn from
somebody else who
is certified who is factory trained who
has been around
um
don't discount the information that they
have
because you feel like you know
everything it could put you in a
position for
much better and much faster success
yeah be a learner
well
i'm going to close this thing out thanks
for joining us and
episode 4 here and um you know to your
guys's continued success everybody on
the on the webinar here and jose and
preferred flooring
uh much success to you guys and we'll
see you next week
you
The Huddle - Episode 3 - Image Isn't Everything (but it's close)
This week Paul talks with Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring about how your image plays a role in your personal and professional success.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
all right what's up everyone and welcome
to the huddle
we come to you weekly to discuss on how
to maintain forward progress in your
flooring careers
i'm paul stewart
and joining me as always today is
daniel and jose with preferred flooring
what's up guys hey how's it going
so today we're going to be discussing um
image uh title of the
of this episode is images and everything
but it's close
so
you know
there's a there's a ton of uh
there's a ton of discrepancy i believe
in what we talk about when we're talking
about image it's not uh you know we're
flooring guys so it could be
it's not having a dirty shirt or or
working uh
you know
like trying to be the best dressed it's
about how you present yourself both
professionally and from a
from an aesthetic standpoint so
you know a lot of times um
you know in my career
uh
there's been guys that come into you
know our company to
uh
apply for for a job or or try to become
a subcontractor if i don't know them
image has a huge play in my initial
assessment of them even if they
sound like they may know what they're
talking about
if they're
you know wearing a
f you the to the world
i'm sure you guys have some experiences
uh so maybe we'll share a few uh
experiences here on
one of you guys ran across in in uh
both in your in your ability to gain
work because of the way you guys present
yourselves and uh how do you guys look
at you know guys and jeans that are
ripped up to their pants pockets or
those types of deals so yeah i'll go
ahead and start off if you guys don't
mind um
so
when when i got into the industry uh i'm
not gonna lie man i was not
i was not the most uh presentable person
right i was a
cutoff sleeve shirt i wore the big baggy
jeans i was never really big on like uh
sagging right but
where i grew up everyone everyone did it
it really wasn't my style but so i wore
the oversized jeans that were cut off at
the bottom with the strings hanging
everywhere
uh holes in them
um you know and
coming in nobody really ever did say
anything
about what i was
wearing um
but i did start to notice a trend uh on
my own as far as
the companies that we did work for on
the commercial land the the the more
prestigious they were
was more visual to me than it was uh
anything else right so they started
getting on to larger projects you
started seeing people where they were
more uniform
and to me they just stood out as as more
professional
did i catch on right away and start uh
you know addressing that part no i i
didn't to be honest with you i didn't i
didn't wear
my actual first uh uniform for work
until i went and worked for a um a
company under a w-2 in a warm just a
simple shirt with a simple logo and you
know what it made me feel so much better
made me feel more professional then i
started worrying about more about my
appearance because now
now i'm a crew leader for this company
and i'm representing them and i wanted
to make sure that i was representing
them in the right manner
so i started you know
watching how much glue i got on my shirt
on my pants started watching how many
rips i had in my pants you know try to
make myself more presentable right
um and you know none of this really
resonated until later on after we
started uh preferred flooring and
we didn't have our guys uniformed and
there was a
specific incident and we were getting
blamed for it and it
really did not
it was like something out of the movies
and you know the guy said something to
me that just like right away it hit me
and he said um
my phone's going off for some reason he
said
if you're not willing to put your logo
on your employees why would i be willing
to let them work in my facility
and as soon as he said that it was just
like fireworks in the brain
and
no matter how much
we try to veer away from it
people are very visual and they're going
to judge you by your appearance when
they first meet you they have nothing
else to use the judging appearance
it might not be everything but it's the
majority of something and well
first impression wise it's pretty close
right i mean it's pretty cool you don't
know the guy and they it's the first
time you're meeting
uh
i don't know there's a there's a lot you
can judge the way they present
themselves and things like that but also
uh the the
their appearance by itself seems to
speak volumes when you first meet and i
know it does for me
yeah it did and
and you know i'm not gonna lie like
within within five days i had
you know the cheapest cotton shirts made
for the guys
um you know everybody still had their
own coats and all that because you know
it was winter time when this happened
uh but we all looked uniform within a
within a week and
after that happened
you just all of a sudden you started
noticing that uh
the respect that you were getting
your crew was getting not just you as
the leader but your crew was getting
more respect all of a sudden you know
everybody's got sleeves on everybody's
matching the obviously the jeans wasn't
working progress but
um you know it put us
it put us in a position where all of a
sudden like
maybe we can attract the people that we
are trying to work for maybe we can do
that you know and it started we started
thinking about different ways that we
could uh um improve on our appearance i
don't want to say alter our periods
right because you know people can can
wear their personality in the haircut
bald
dreads whatever they want piercings you
know that that part really doesn't
bother me at all right i know it bothers
some but
um the appearance as far as
the clothing and the aesthetics of that
really did help
bring to light it made it so people
focused on us as a group
instead of just knowing what we did you
know
it gave us a better
representation of who we were
do you see a difference
i mean you were talking there that
um
you noticed a difference have you
continued to notice a difference how
people perceive you or how
some you know a client
responds to you
because of your crew
um for example i i i have a customer
that we have
uh done a ton of different of their
facilities
and when we had a crew on that had all
of our shirts on
they were all the neon yellow
they had they all looked very
you know much there's a reason why the
military and the police forces and and
things wear uniforms and i'm not saying
you have to go full on guard uniform but
i'm just saying like a standardized look
within for you for installers
and
the difference between the way that
client perceived how that job went
versus
other jobs with guys who were
sub crews that had different shirts on
and
and they weren't even offensive shirts
it was just one had a black
uh you know t-shirt on and one had
a different colored you know whatever
it wasn't anything offensive on them it
just they looked hodgepodge you know
what i mean
there's there's a definite in my opinion
if you're a subcontractor if you're a
1099 installer
putting on the uniform on a daily basis
it could be a simple logo or it could
just be a the same colored shirt for you
and your helper
every single day um i think it goes a
long way for perception from the client
100 i agree i agree with that 100
yeah so daniel what about uh what about
you have you i mean you you've
basically grown up in flooring so i mean
you guys kind of know that to me you
know what we're talking about here image
being important but you got any personal
stories or experiences with uh either
pro or khan versus uh you know somebody
being in
you know their appearance either gaining
them work or losing them work
um
well we do a lot of commercial right so
appearances is
is everything because you go in some of
these businesses and
they have a dress code and then you go
in there and we've seen guys with
you know shorts cut off sleeve shirts
and
we're talking you know working at
colleges and stuff and it's like man
there's got to be
something that you can do to make it so
that people know what you're there for
and
at least look presentable because
i mean some of these guys man they just
well a lot of those places it's a safety
thing too they they don't know a part of
what what the
facility has you there for
um
and you look like a
you know a 40 year old dude at a college
walking around the campus right and
that's what i mean it's like something
they they don't pay any attention to
what they look like and it almost makes
it
they look like the way
some people
you know picture
us looking like and it just drags
everyone else down it's like not every
flooring guy is out there
with
cut off sleeve shirts and wearing shorts
and they don't
ever do their hair
yeah you know i'm just gonna flat-out
say it you know i'm sure we're just
trying to tiptoe around it right without
hurting feelings but
you know if i if i put myself in the
consumer shoes and i'm looking for
specific like you know if i go to a
mechanic shop i expect them to look like
a mechanic right but if i go to mechanic
shop and the guy comes in
and he's wearing a cut-off sleeve
metallica shirt like i said shorts no no
work uh safety boots
i'm probably not going to trust the guy
to work on my vehicle i mean that's the
bottom line right you got to dress the
part um you know i can only imagine what
residential guys go through because i
know that there aren't a lot of
guidelines for them to follow and they
can pretty much do what they what they
want um as well but you know
from
a customer perspective
whether
where i started doesn't is irrelevant
right how i started is irrelevant
because
i do look at that and
i know that if i am going to
go to abc company and i'm
deterred because of an appearance
you know has it happened yeah 100 might
have been the person might have been the
place but i mean it's because we're
visual right you associate
professionalism with the appearance of
the professional that's presenting
themselves to you and i'm sure we've
lost some in the past
because well let me let me
build on that just a second
this is something that you have complete
control of every single morning
what shirt you put on what jeans you put
on
and
so for you to make the decision to wear
certain things
that i think is part of why
your dress code or how you dress
is something that's important to people
when they see you in their business
you they know you chose to put that
stuff on you chose to present yourself
that way
i would i'm just trying to implore
people like give a darn about how you're
presenting yourself to the world
both
overall but you know particularly for in
our industry when we have such a
a black cloud of this assumption of how
we are
like rise above that put on genes that
either have been patched correctly we
all know we go through genes like you
know right so so i was actually in the
field today right so my shirt is all
super dusty and stuff but
my pants are
on the front are dirty because i'm
constantly wiping my stuff off but i
mean we got logos everywhere you got to
be proud of
who you work for right
yeah and your your jeans and
the dirty
dirtiness you expect we're in
construction but you don't have to have
like you said cut off sleeves and holes
in your
excessive holes in your jeans or those
kinds of things i mean customers care
man they do
um i know this seems like a pretty small
item for
to be talking about on
on this huddle but i've just watched
guys lose business over it and i've
watched them you know struggle
um
sometimes financially from not
properly presenting themselves i mean
think about this
businesses spend millions of dollars a
year
on marketing and branding themselves
trying to make themselves look as
appealing to the to the consumer as
possible
shouldn't you do the same in
in as much control as you have you don't
need to spend a bunch of money a
t-shirt's a t-shirt buy one that you
know instead of buying a metallica
t-shirt you know
toss your logo on a four dollar t-shirt
or
maybe the place doesn't allow logos
having a standardized color that you
guys can wear
on a day in day out basis or hey hit us
up at go career we'll send you a whole
buttload of t-shirts it's all good like
just wearing something that's familiar
and says
if it's going to say something i believe
i agree with you daniel if it's going to
say something it ought to say what you
do
yeah it separates you from everyone else
especially on a large project with
multiple trades there's got to be some
kind of separation right i mean
if something goes wrong or something
happens to an individual
being um easily identified is to your
benefit as well
yeah that's a good point safety
yeah
yeah i'd say another thing is
as a sub crew uh how you keep your
vehicle and your van or your truck and
how you keep your tools
all those say a lot about you um
i know
one of the guys i used to work with um
when i had to uh bluntly
back in the day
you know
he never had a trial in his bucket that
wasn't dirty
he either had patch caked on it and he'd
scrape it off before he used it or
glue all over it and he'd pick it off
before he got going i mean
instead of taking the few minutes after
he was done with
you know spreading his glue and tossing
it in a bucket and wiping it off with
the sponge and then putting it back in a
clean bucket or
you know cleaning the patch off his
trial he just let it dry and then scrape
it off with a four-inch scraper
afterwards i won't lie i did that too
when early early on in my career i
learned quickly
that wasn't that wasn't uh the preferred
method for me but you know i think that
stuff speaks volumes as well if you
tell you one thing
if you have a sub company your guys's
place there in michigan
looking to do work and you just go out
and look at their van that's going to
say a lot about them just go look at
their vehicle look at their installed
vehicle look inside look at their tools
that'll tell you a bunch about what that
guy
values what is he clean is he a clean
installer clean installers don't have
dirty tools i can tell you that like if
they're clean on the job site and they
keep their stuff picked up and they're
they spill a bag of patch they sweep it
up or whatever
those guys that do those activities
they're not the ones who have dirty
tools you know nasty dirty i'm not
saying the tools need to be looking
crystal clean but no man
you know what i'm saying like yeah
i mean i think so they don't have to
look brand new every single day but yeah
um in our
just in our meeting this morning we we
had a
talk about
you know tool upkeep it's
it's not
one's person one person's job in order
to keep that tool up it's everyone's job
because
it's part of the appearance if we're
going to have a bunch of broke down
stuff then why even have it like
and
you keep on like we keep on talking
about um
appearance and then some guys losing
jobs and stuff but
some guys are just there for those jobs
i mean
and and that's totally fine because
someone's got to do those jobs right
because
yeah i mean
it goes to those those customers that
are
looking at the bottom dollar
instead of
the value that someone provides
and i would 100 rather just
them take care of those people and me
not have to worry about it
yeah you're talking about
like people just shopping only on
cost
and
those being the crews that are willing
to to lower their
you know their car their their price to
everybody
um
you know
that's a whole nother episode
right a whole nother episode about
what are we gonna do
uh and how do you separate yourself
um in fact a little ahead of schedule
here you know next week's
uh
huddle is
directly on that is understanding your
value and how to increase your prices
well this is this is number one right
here easiest thing you can do
present yourself as a true professional
be
trained and skilled in your craft and
then
charge more
right
and stick to your guns like
i think i may have told a told this
story previously but we had a customer
or
a project that we had lost
a big job about 70 000 feet of tile i
ran into the
uh to an installer at a local emser and
um
i was like hey what are you up to and
you know just kind of chatting it up and
he used to work for us years ago and
uh
he said oh i'm doing this big you know
medical
like office building
about 60 000 feet man but the chick
she's really
she's really cheap dude and i was like
well what'd you what are you doing it
for he's like two bucks a foot tile 24
by 24
large format
large format
i i was blown away i was like
we uh we we haven't i i
don't ever remember paying two dollars a
foot for tile install uh
those types of people those people who
do that are
unfortunate i don't have really great
things to say so i won't say much it
just i really believe they
put dents
in our industry they cause other
people's um
you just can't make a living wage okay
maybe in one cafeteria that's 80 by 60
you'll make it you'll make some money
but
what about down the halls and then all
the door cuts and yeah just all this
other stuff man you know normal jobs
just aren't that big and that that that
uh you know maybe it was wide open or
something but even in that case you're
doing the work
you know understanding where you bring
value and how you bring value to the
process and not just going as low as you
can to get the work is you know what
like i said we'll address that in next
week's episode but um
i do believe image has is the easiest
way to at least
start to separate yourself as caring
about
um you know
caring about your product what you're
going to give that customer i mean
there's a lot of research out there that
says how you dress or how you care about
you is what you're going to give to your
client
and uh you know it seems to be a little
bit true
yeah it's it's directly you know
the way we're talking about the pricing
and all that it
how you present yourself is is directly
proportionate in most cases to
how they perceive you and how much
they're actually willing to pay so
you're only cutting yourself short if
you are that guy which
like i said some some guys just want to
do that and that's
totally fine but you know we're
we're trying to lift this industry so we
can do that one person at a time if one
person hears this and that they make
that jump to to go get a shirt and i
mean a lot of people think that it's
super expensive i mean if you don't have
a logo there's apps out there you can go
on fiverr have someone create you a logo
you know they'll
they'll give you a few mock-ups you
choose one you take that logo to your
local screen print shop
and they'll create a screen for it i
mean it is a one-time charge that they
do for the artwork and having to create
all that stuff but once you pay that you
can order more
and
you don't have to pay that charge again
so
it's an upfront cost but
it's worth it
because i mean
uh our shirts we don't we don't pay much
for them they're they're a different
material right so it's a dry fit
material
um that wicks moisture away because
we're always sweating right so we want
to
yeah
yeah so we don't really like the cotton
too much
but
i mean it's like
six five or six dollars a shirt and then
what a dollar fifty to put the logo on
it
it's really not much yeah so for under
10 bucks
yeah why is there a feedback
for under 10 you can have
a t-shirt with your logo on it i mean i
think the setup fee is like 150 bucks
it's not much the same thing you're a
small company and then if you
go with another small company that's
trying to build a name as well they'll
probably even give you a better deal
like hey just tell people about me
and stuff like that um
it doesn't even have to be a small
company we went with the first time
the first time we didn't want to talk
about because we didn't do it right but
after we actually started going to a
screen print company we went to one of
the bigger ones in town and that's when
we realized man we uh we're paying this
other guy that was doing it you know on
his own
this much per shirt
when we can only be paying this much and
that's when you you kind of realize like
man it's a lot
more manageable than people put it out
to be well that's a good
i think a good thing to
know
is that the
um
go with the larger guy the the larger
guy in your area typically they're
larger because they do the most they
have the most buying power on the shirts
and they can
uh you know
you're gonna
be cheaper we use the biggest in in our
area and we pay eight bucks a shirt
logoed
in and out of the door for three
different colors
and
you know
you maybe pay 10 bucks because you don't
buy them you know say a smaller company
uh but at the end of the day man
ten dollars you're not going to buy a
shirt for
ten dollars at walmart or you might in a
package of white tees or something but
right so this is pretty easy low-hanging
fruit for somebody to to do that and
then like on your vehicle if you want to
look presentable there
you i i've literally
seen guys just put professional flooring
installer they're not cf not the cfi
logo or nothing just professional
flooring star they got a magnet put it
on their the side of their truck
no logo or nothing and it feels better
than
their truck by itself when they pull up
to a job site right so if you want to
put your logo on one of those magnets
they're 100 bucks a piece
toss them on your vehicle take them off
if it's a personal vehicle that you uh
like i did in the early days crossover
from family vehicle to work vehicle
pull them on and off and you're you're
good
i don't want this to seem elementary
because it it's actually way more
important than it is hard
that's the purpose that's why i wanted
to have this talk like
the the importance of caring about this
stuff is way more is is so much higher
than than how hard it is to do it it's
simple get a get a shirt you like
whether it's a pillow or a t-shirt
even if you you uh initially start the
way you guys were talking it wasn't the
right way at least it's a step in the
right direction i would recommend go see
you know a big screen printer in your
area telling you you're gonna buy you
know
10 shirts at a time or something like
that and see what their cost is and then
later when you get you know a few
helpers or something you're buying 20 or
30 shirts at a time your costs will go
down but
these
practices are simple
and then you talk about the way you you
visually present yourself and then how
you act
that's a whole nother deal but if those
two match up
um
you know you you're going to be a lot
more successful than the guy that just
refuses because the only the only reason
i can see
with the information out there that
somebody would not put on a decent set
of clothing is because they don't care
all right they don't care um
logo or not like put on a decent shirt
some jeans and work boots and look the
part
if you don't care you're you're that's
exactly what you're telling your client
that's exactly what you're telling a
company like my flooring company when
you come in to try to
get work from me you know that was me
that was me when i started i'm not gonna
lie because i didn't care
i didn't understand the importance of it
i didn't understand the benefit of it i
i really honestly didn't care well if we
help one or two people that are
listening to this call
uh get get further than where you were
at where you're like i didn't care i
don't care because i didn't know the
importance to really realize the
importance
just so everybody knows like you guys
own a flooring company you guys hire
installers
your opinion matters in this i own a
flooring company i hire installers i'm
telling you it this stuff matters guys
so take note of what these guys are
saying
simply
wear decent clothing but go if you can
swing a few hundred bucks to go get your
logo put on a shirt do it have some
pride in what you're building
absolutely and then to touch on what you
were talking about as far as uh
you know
the way you sound and stuff you do
essentially
have to create a customer service voice
is what everyone calls it right because
you you got to kind of become a
different person that everyone can
relate to
and it's it's happened here in the
office when i'm on the phone
and then
someone that's not usually here you know
hears me talk on the phone and they were
like man you sound really good you got a
really good customer service voice and
it's like
kinda have to have that you gotta you
gotta
you you have to know what the customer
wants and then play off of that and they
don't wanna
hear your everyday sling and all that
stuff that you you usually talk about
and
yeah you kind of did the way the same
way when you take the magnet on put the
magnet on the car and take it off you
have to be able to turn that on and off
and know when to use it
yeah
another interesting aspect
i had a
um
sorry i'm getting feedback so it's a
little distracting but i had a uh a
client say that
or a
not a client i was listening to a audio
book and it's about customer service and
branding and all that and it talked
about putting on your hero uniform for
the day it was talking about
like you know all the heroes all the
batman superman everybody had a uniform
and it's like transforming yourself from
your daily
uh who you are into your
what you're presenting when you're at
work and let's face it like you can't
just
you know be homies with everybody when
you're talking to clients and and
business people i mean you and i you
guys and i hung out
i don't we don't we you can't just
you know throw all that type of language
and you know uh
the way you are in your personal life uh
you keep a piece of that but you have to
like you said have a customer service
facing attitude uh so how you present
yourself from a i guess what i was
getting at there is when you put on that
uniform if you can
visualize like that's when you need to
switch that over too when you're when
you're representing that
that
brand or yourself
you know consider changing the way that
you uh go about talking to your clients
and
and
whether you work for a store or you work
directly and you you
go out and get drum up your own business
in the retail market or
you know maybe you do a little bit of
work for gcs here and there uh
any
any of those scenarios you're still
presenting yourself and i think that it
goes a long way if you can do it in a
professional manner it does too and it's
um
it's also like a muscle right like you
know that you have to have your customer
service voice
and versus your who you are at home your
everyday
but but it's like a muscle but the more
you use it the easier it becomes and
you start finding that it does start to
transfer over because
you're becoming who you really should be
anyway you you start those practices for
work and then all of a sudden it
transfers the home you're a little bit
cleaner
vocabulary around
around the kids growing up clean your
vocabulary around people you might not
know who are
in a restaurant while you're out with
your family and friends you know you
start start realizing that uh it becomes
a lot easier to
to articulate yourself and just be
just be professional all the time you
know you know somebody's always watching
somebody's always listening um you don't
want to say or do the wrong thing in
front of the wrong people as well as
that also puts a strain on your your
business and your your persona
well you realize real quick that
perception is
is a big thing
how people perceive you is important
having a you know
where i'm not saying you you can't be
yourself
i'm just saying be the best version of
yourself there you go
there you go that's
well
all right guys well thanks for joining
me today uh again trying to keep these
between 30 to 45 minutes
uh
trying to keep them hitting hard and uh
provide as much value as possible to uh
people and hopefully
as uh
you know like i said if we help one or
two guys take a step or two ahead um
then then the goals accomplished so
again next week we're going to be
talking about understanding your value
and how to increase your prices
what
i i want to come uh with some practical
steps on how i pay
different installers higher prices than
others
and how can you be in that
higher group how does that work um i'm
sure you guys do it i've talked to
hundreds of flooring business owners
and the fact is is some guys make more
money and why is that
and how can you join that group if
you're not and if you're in that group
how can you increase your prices even
more because at the end of the day here
uh we have a little bit of ways to go
before we
uh are
where
i would say uh infla you know to even
match inflation at this point so
um how can we help these guys and and
gals out there installing working their
tails off make sure they're getting full
value for what they're providing
let's come with it hard next week with
some good ideas on how to help the
installer make more money
yeah
all right brothers
have a good one signing off we'll talk
to you next week
thanks everybody
The Huddle - Episode 2 - Employee vs Subcontractor
This week Paul Stuart is joined by Jose and Daniel Gonzalez, where they discuss comparing the differences and similarities between being an employee installer vs. a subcontractor installer.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up guys welcome to
the huddle it's a weekly discussion
about how to maintain forward progress
in your flooring career
today we're going to be talking about
employee versus subcontractor what's
best for you a quick introduction my
name is paul stewart i'm the founder and
ceo of go carrera and president of
stewart associates flooring company
located in wichita kansas
got daniel and i got jose with me from
preferred flooring what's up guys
hey what's up
how's the day
busy as always
nice flooring right
yeah flooring in life you gotta find
balance
yep
well hey i wanted to open the discussion
with
um
kind of
discussing our individual
uh experiences with the two different
kind of aspects of flooring uh
you know the employee and the
subcontractor
uh
what's your guys experience with that um
kind of set a baseline here between
three of us on
what what your guys's past and tells
what your experience is there and and
i'll share mine
okay um
i'll go ahead and start well you know
when when i started an industry i was uh
definitely under 10.99 um
i i didn't really
really know any different so so that was
where i started i did transition over to
uh w2 and play
at some point and you know they
they both have their place they both
have their benefit they both have their
drawbacks um
does it matter to me which one i'm
categorized
under now that i'm a little bit older it
does to some extent because you know my
my future is
my future feels to me better off uh
categorizing myself as an employee
versus the contractor because
items are taken care of for me and
there's a lot less work on the back end
for me to take care of on a personal
level um
with the government insurance and
retirement and all that so it just it
makes life a little bit easier um when
everything's kind of grouped together so
um preferably i would
say that i i like where i'm at as an
employee of our own business
at the moment yes
yeah we'll get into that a little bit
but i mean there's certainly other
options
uh if you are a sub and you own your own
business to be still an employee of that
business and that company
pay you as a employee so we can get into
some of that too
what about you daniel
you still came off as an employee didn't
you i know well
the wrong kind of employee the 1099
employee and
that's where this
i don't even think it's just the
flooring industry i think it's just
construction in general
tends to think that
that's okay and
and that's that's you know something
that people need to know that it's not
the right way to do things especially
when you are calling them an employee
and
they aren't
exactly working for themselves so i
started as um
what they would call a 1099 employee
right even though that's not really
a thing an employee's an employee
but for
for a few years i was on a 1099 and it
wasn't until
i went to go do my taxes and it's like
what i owe money like how is this even
possible like
and that's when
you kind of realize oh i've been paid
wrong this entire time and
what do you do from there
yeah a lot of guys have gotten stuck
from that deal and i think let's let's
take a minute to like clearly define the
difference because i think that's part
of it right i mean
daniel
and jose both of you guys sound like you
got started as 1099 thinking you were an
employee so to speak but
so
to define
the difference an employee
is paid a
in my there's my opinion and then
there's the legal uh version
uh you can pay an employee by the piece
as long as they make a certain dollar
figure and some of these things change
state by state some of the rules but in
general
uh they have to make a minimum they have
to make at least minimum wage even if
you're paying them by the peace if
you're going to
treat them as an employee now if you're
gonna do it that way you still need to
take out taxes
uh you know take care of their payroll
taxes take care of their income taxes
the whole works you still have to
encompass all that uh the most
traditional way and what in our opinion
is the best way to hire an employee is
hire them by the hour
uh pay their you know have them set up
they get work they have workman's comp
insurance under your company
uh they you know they are paid overtime
when they work over 40 hours and again
that's another thing that
changes state by state some of the
some states it's if you work over eight
hours in a day so it kind of depends
but the bottom line is
they're paid by the hour they have the
same benefits uh say vacation time uh
holiday pay those kinds of things that
maybe the office staff has
at our flooring company our hourly
installers have the same exact benefits
as our vice president
same health insurance provided by the
company same
same benefits with uh
vacation time and and holiday pay that
entire thing so that's my opinion
of what really having an hourly employee
is and then subcontractor is the 1099
guy that has to cover his own
insurance taxes those kinds of things
and i think where some people get caught
in this web is they're hired by the as
an hourly pay structure
but pay but
tax wise are treated as a 1099
uh
independent
contractor and so you you go working
for 15 bucks an hour
and at the end of the year you learn
that you owe
5 000 in taxes because the employer that
was
saying you were an employee and treating
you as an employee a lot of times which
is even worse meaning they
you got to be there at 7 00 a.m you
don't leave till 4 30 whatever those
time constraints are which
uh you know we get into compliance a lot
when you start talking about those
things because
you cannot have control over
that
subcontractor if you're paying them as a
1099 and you're not covering them
anywhere you're not taking care of their
unemployment insurance they're you're
not covering their employees
the employee stuff
then
um you know they're really not an
employee but at the end of the day
the pain that that causes to a lot of
installers who get started there
and they get behind on taxes and then
before you know it
taxes are a big item in their life a big
stress point so
that's that's kind of my uh
what's your guys's opinion is that
pretty accurate from uh yeah that's
that's pretty accurate and then you run
into the guys that
you know they don't know no better and
then once they
do find out that oh man i'm gonna oh
they just are like i'm just not even
gonna file
and they they try to go years and years
without doing it and then it's not until
some of these guys actually are like man
now i want to buy a house
but
because of the situation i put myself in
or the situation that
my employer has put me in by doing
things wrong
well i seem to remember us sitting on
the porch out in the country talking to
a certain installer that i won't name
but i mean those types of things was the
topic of conversation and everybody
sitting there it had something similar
that had happened you know they got
behind on taxes half the time they
didn't even know they owed taxes i know
people on this call
uh have been in the same position where
they got behind on taxes
and you know it was a
a major stressor in their life well i
did 100 you know and i did it to myself
um and i'll be transparent i'll be
honest
uh you know
first off i started out uh 1099 not
educated right like oh i'm making cash
i'm getting paid you know this is you
know under under the table type thing
he's just reporting it because he had to
show the money went somewhere
um and then once i found out about what
i had to owe
um
i was like
let me just kind of
dodge and duck as long as i can to try
to avoid it thinking it was going to go
away but no it didn't
um and it got to the point when i did
finally become a w-2 employee
um
i didn't want to raise any red flag so i
didn't even do my taxes when i was going
to receive a refund and all that did was
put me even more in the hole for
penalties and uh and interests uh and
you know and all that so it's there
there's there was a trickle effect
how did you deal with that i mean that
had to be major stress
you know um
when i i finally met my wife i
i had to make a decision right like if i
was gonna build a life and i was gonna
purchase a home and try to uh to raise a
family
um
i didn't want anything to be taken away
because it wasn't her fault and it
wouldn't be my kid's fault it was my
my
lack of knowledge that put me in that
situation my lack of uh
educating myself you know my pride right
not asking the right people the right
questions even though i kind of already
knew i should i just kind of avoided it
and
i called the irs
hey this is my name
i think i owe you some money okay you
are officially the first installer i've
ever met
i did as daniel dude
you know i just i didn't want it to come
back and bite me in the rear end
after i started doing things what i felt
was the right way you know and
i just didn't want to buy anybody else
either yeah no i mean kudos to you for
doing it i'm just saying that
it just keeps going generally and you're
you're talking the same you're telling
the same story that i've heard
for a long for
last several years that we've been
traveling
across the united states going to
different shows meeting with installers
all over the nation
it's a very similar problem
they didn't know any better they were
they the guidance they got was not good
they were young they got into flooring
they were getting you know 15 or 20 an
hour in cash it the money felt right uh
it felt good but at the end of the day
they didn't realize you know 20 of that
uh is going to uncle sam and they didn't
plan on it no but i really did not
just them knowing that that like
you know
there are options like the there's two
different ways of doing things now the
vast majority of flooring is
subcontracted and we i get that and and
go carrera supports that that's what it
was built for but we encourage
uh like
employment
in the true term of employee installer
to me
helps the industry to allow that that
individual to develop
now that that's not going to change the
industry i mean there's plenty of people
that believe that
you know employee installers are better
that that's a better path form
unfortunately you're never going to
squash or get rid of entrepreneurship
like we're entrepreneurs man i mean
you know i was a when i started i was
i started off as an hourly employee in
the flooring business um i made eight
bucks an hour to sweep floors and pick
up trash and
that kind of stuff
you know i stayed there for about four
years and even at the end of those four
years being mentored and and going
through uh being under some really good
installers after that four years uh that
company was getting ready to get bought
out so i went and started my own company
and i started subby
i i have seen every aspect of the
business
and i believe
that the decision between being a hourly
employee or a subcontractor
really boils down to your risk
appetite for risk and your ability to
execute on
uh
bookkeeping i mean it's pretty simple
stuff but it is important if you're
going to be a sub
uh you know we we grew our company very
quickly
and um
you know started to become a full
service flooring company a few years
later
because i paid myself as an employee i
paid myself 600 bucks a week as a sub
it didn't matter how much i made from
installing that went into the company i
took a 600 a week salary and i did that
for five years and that allowed the
company to grow and us to be able to put
back money and then start
full service supplying materials and
such
but
the that is not the path for everybody
and you just have to be honest with
yourself in my opinion
right like yeah some some people are
just better at being employees and
that's good that's fine we need the we
needed good quality employee installers
in this business as well
yeah
we definitely uh
definitely need to bring to the
forefront from the uh the implications
that someone could put themselves in to
help them decide what side of that line
they want to be on right um because it
can only
it can only help
uh
the construction industry and as a whole
not just flooring but everyone
um and
no we need to have an informed decision
like that at least give them the
information so if anybody's
watching this that you're you're a
flooring
subcontractor and you're behind on taxes
and you're like we feel your pain i
think that everybody's
sitting here has been in some version of
that at some point in our careers
the the the only way i think uh jose
brought up my
the this isn't tax advice but this is
just life advice go take care of it look
what jose did he went forward and said
hey i owe this money
i think i owe you this money anyway
i have no idea can you help me and you
know i attack the problem and go ahead
and
you know because it'll come back and and
bite you in the in the latter part of
your life when you want to buy a house
or a car or whatever
um
but back to the point you you guys have
hourly and subcontractors at your
company now correct correct
yeah we don't discriminate how do you
choose between that because i know that
over our uh business
life
there's probably eight or ten of our
subs that were hourly employees and we
actually helped them get into business
because we're not going to as we figure
we know what we've trained them to do is
an hourly and
i'm not going to stop them from chasing
their dream 100
i'm going to help them and i want to
continue to have them as a good resource
for installation for my company so
um how do you guys look at this how do
you determine
do you do you have a
determination on who should be a sub and
who should be an hourly or is it all
based on that guy
or girl
uh
historically like it's all based on the
person because we've had people as
employees that
have been like you know what this isn't
really for me i'm gonna start my own
thing and it's like
awesome if you need anything let us know
i mean um our ride on machines we've had
you know people use
if they don't have a tool here and
there's like here you go and it's like
you're not they're not even doing work
for us but we're still helping them out
because that's just
no one
ever really left on bad terms right and
it's like they always came to us like
hey this is what i'm thinking about it's
i'm not i can't keep you here man if
you're not happy you need to go do
something that's going to make you happy
and
um and then you know a few years later
we have them in here and doing a job
here and a job there and it just goes
like that but um right now what we do is
most of our stuff is in-house
and then
a lot of the residential were starting
to subcontract because
coming from a commercial background
we're just not as efficient
in that aspect
so if we can
offload that and that gives our guys
um room to focus on what they're good at
which is the commercial jobs yeah and
we're not we're not efficient it's not
because the lack of knowledge on our
part is because our
our focus has always been commercial and
that's what our our employees are
trained on was the commercial aspect so
every time we squeeze into some
residential here and there it is more of
a training process through the project
versus uh let's go get it done type of
process
well they run different there's no doubt
about it from a project management
standpoint the job's run different
uh let me ask you another question
what is the the biggest factor
uh that you see is why
somebody wants to be a subcontractor
versus be an employee
so what what what what's what's
motivating the guys you talked about
to to want to
leave a good company with
with the security of the hourly
installer
life what what what do you think
i think you like he said that's pretty
broad because we've had guys that
have left because they feel like they
just need to do things their way you
know exact words i need to do things my
way
okay have at it and
and then we have guys that
will see
a dollar figure and be like well if
you're making this much and i'm only
making this much that means that
i need to go do my own thing but those
are also the guys that once they start
doing their own thing it's like
one week they're
spending spending spending and then the
next you know
few weeks after that
it's
you know because the social media you
see everything it's posts about them
being broke and stuff so they they
really have no
[Music]
they don't have an idea of what it takes
and what it entails to
um gather the tools the insurance the
contacts and and try to
have everything you need at your
fingertips because it's
when you're out there and you buy it and
you've been in business for a little bit
and you've had some time to collect
everything to make the installs go
easier and you're an employee and you
have everything you need to do a job
from start to finish no matter what it
is it's a lot different than going out
on your own and all you have is knee
pads and a pouch it's totally different
you know no van no
so so some of the guys
so how do you stop so that's the key
right there in my opinion like if you
don't have the assets the tools the the
vehicle the the
the
let's call it just the starter kit to be
a sub i mean you got to have a vehicle
that's meant to do this you know a van
or an enclosed truck or something like
that you gotta have a work vehicle
and the proper tools to perform your
trade if you don't have the basics then
that should probably tell you to stay on
as an employee for a while and build
those
goals
build that stuff up buy your own tools
and buy your own thing and then you can
go
you know
out on your own later i think that one
of the
one of the things i've
um
recognized over the years is guys just
want to
um
like if they said we want to do it my i
want to do things my way from a
technical standpoint from a flooring
tech you know installation technique
standpoint that's not allowed like
you're still going to have to do it the
right way we're going to make sure
now if you're talking about
you don't want to get up at six and be
the office by seven and pick up your own
materials and then go to the job site
like more of our hourlies do
i get that like if you want to be your
own sub and
but there there really needs to be
almost this like starter kit the check
box do i have this do i have that do i
have this do i have that or prior to
going and being a subcontractor and if
you don't if you can't check all those
boxes you probably should stay as an
employee that's just
you know my two cents on it but
hey guys this is saying can you hear me
yeah what's up everybody hey how you
doing brother uh i'm doing good just
wanted to add to that topic you know um
so for me when i started yes i got the
van you know i got the tools the basic
tools to go ahead and start and as the
job requires additional stuff you know
you go ahead and invest whether you're
rented or you want to purchase it that's
kind of up to you
but what i also started doing because
when i realized look i'm not i don't i
don't want to grow my business while
doing the installation and i'm going to
find people to do the work and i have
people working for me i gave them like i
said look
i'm going to eat you guys like a
subcontractor
you are allowed to use my tools you are
allowed to take my vent until you guys
get up to a certain point you know and
that's what i started doing they drove
to my location to pick up my van and use
my tools and then they start you know
slowly building their own tools you know
with their pocket knives and
floor scrapers and stuff like that but
you know i still had the demo machine to
provide just to help them get going
because you know we're kind of helping
each other
so that was one way i guess you could
kind of start if you have
another business partner that could
provide you or support you with what you
don't have
yeah the only thing i see there uh
hussein and you can probably like
chime in here
is the liability of somebody
that's not an employee of your company
driving your vehicle
materials from one place to the other
and those types of deals can put you at
undue risk
so
you know having them as an employee
until they get there mitigate your risk
at least from a standpoint of personal
risk
because your insurance company would
want you to have them as an employee if
they're gonna be driving your vehicle so
that's just my two cents on that is if
you're gonna
you have to add them to your insurance
yes
yeah so
um
what what else do you see uh
daniel and jose on like
what are some of the
the biggest pros and cons um you know
everybody would say money for sub
because you can
make significant
money as a subcontractor but you got to
start checking off these boxes like
taxes insurance and things like that
that's a pro anacon i think because you
look at the money that you make but
not a lot of people talk about the
expenses that come with the amount of
money you're making either
and like you said you started you know
you were paying yourself a salary of
600. we started off paying
ourselves
half of what you were paying and this
this went on for a couple years and it's
like
was it hard absolutely and
would i do it again probably um but it's
it's a matter of
seeing that end goal and
actually knowing what you want it's uh
you
definitely spend a lot of
there's a lot of expenses that go into
running a business that a lot of people
don't see
and
that that's something that um a lot of
the organization organizations that are
out right now don't even talk about
which is
i understand why they don't but it's
frustrating that they don't because
they're you set someone up for failure
if you don't if you're not open and
honest about stuff like that and
expenses are
crazy
even
well that's why we're talking i mean
that's why we're having this
conversation is at the at the end of the
day here
there there's a ton of expenses if i
could give a sub any
guidance whatsoever is don't treat your
business because if you're a
subcontractor go open up
a llc or get a true business uh entity
consult again i want to make sure you
consult with an attorney and and an
accountant but this is my opinion
um open up an actual company structure
it's pretty cheap to open up a quick llc
and then pay yourself as an employee
put the money back
so that uh as you're paying yourself as
an employee you'll be taking out taxes
of what you pay every week and it helps
your dependency at the end of the year
or your your um
your com your commitment to the irs at
the end of the year if you're getting
money taken out weekly as an employee so
that's the first trip so you've been
paying your you every week you get paid
you're paying in to the irs until you're
and you're legal that way at the end of
the year if you didn't pay enough you'll
still owe but at least you've paid some
throughout the year
through your uh weekly payroll to
yourself so i would encourage every sub
to set themselves up as a company pay
yourself as an employee and don't treat
your company as a piggy bank it's not
just something that you made five
thousand dollars this week and you spend
five thousand dollars and that's that's
where that's where you get the guys and
i know we've you guys got a story about
facebook i'd like for you to kind of
chime in on but
that's where you get these stories of
guys being so far behind on their taxes
or they're broke all the time and it's
if you spend every dime you make and you
don't put that money to work for you
later and this is a bit of just business
and investment like
the the the
standard best practices i don't care
what industry you're in put 10 percent
back
for savings put 10 back
to to
for a rainy day and put 30 percent back
for taxes now if you can do that if you
do the math and that makes sense
okay
but those are just these baseline
figures that you should be figuring if
you think you're gonna make a thousand
dollars
in a week take a hundred put it aside
for your savings a hundred for a rainy
day right
300
for
um taxes and and and uh commitments for
there and then what do you have left
after you've taken 500 out
is a 500 so if that's still attractive
and you can make that work for you
by all means but
right too many times
the story like you guys uh were talking
about the other um in another
conversation we had is
i mean why don't you share that with us
i mean that's
the conversation going on on the west
michigan
page right
did you talk to him about it yes a
little bit ago yeah give him a little
bit of information on that sorry i'm
just he was gone when that was
conversation yeah no worries i mean just
kind of overview of yeah
on facebook
on facebook you know someone posts on
there that they're looking for someone
at a certain dollar amount
and then guys say that that they weren't
bashing but i mean i it's all
written right so maybe i read it wrong
but they're like
well i paid this much for i i won't pay
anyone less than this much or i start my
guys out at this much
and it's like
none of that matters if you're not
paying your guys correctly and they're
gonna end up having to pay their own
self-employment tax anyways
because if you think about it in the big
scheme of things they're complaining at
you know just throwing figures out there
if someone's paying someone 16 an hour
and you're like well i pay my guys 19 an
hour but you're paying them out of 10.99
so that's not a true 19 an hour because
if you
if you really break down how much an
employee costs at
i don't have the spreadsheet in front of
me but i'm i
i think the our cost
at uh 16 an hour somewhere around 22 an
hour is our
our all-in
yeah bear burden is somewhere average
around six bucks in an hour
yeah
so depending on retirement and
investment
yeah
yeah
and then yeah that's not even including
like
the the health care and all that yet so
it is it it starts getting up there
because you you don't think
you know you
a lot of these guys are going out there
and working and they're you know on a
1099 and they're not covered by comp so
if anything happens on the job site it's
like what happens then yeah you're not
protected cut your fingers off yeah
and you're not if if you're 1099
you don't and you don't have your own
insurance your own work comp insurance
um
yeah it's all that in my opinion i think
that's something that would be nice if
the industry would change not our
industry but the insurance industry i
think a 1099 guy
should have to have work com i mean me
that would take a lot of these
the guys that are playing as a company
uh almost you know they're not they
don't act like a company but they
install
and they're 10.99 it would it would take
those guys out of it and the only reason
i say this is for safety i mean
and at the end of the day
these are things guys don't think about
or things that
the installers aren't considering when
they're talking about going out on their
own um so i'm hoping that a discussion
an open discussion can kind of push the
you know how to at the end of the day
how are we going to move
forward progress
with
both employee installers and
subcontractors and i think it's just
really truly understanding the
difference between the two so you don't
get the wool pulled over your eyes when
you go talk to some retailer that's like
yeah man i'll you you can come work here
and i'll pay you 18 an hour and they're
like
and then at the end of the year it's
your story right
because that's the tax bill that's what
they kind of compare things to is you
can go work at mcdonald's and make that
amount of money but they're not taking
into
you know consideration that mcdonald's
is paying them out of w2
and then you get your whole benefits
package
and if you really just
just the simple stuff like paying
overtime
like on a 1099 these guys are working
straight time 100 of the time and
a lot of it is you know these guys that
are like i work 60 70 hours a week and
i'm doing fine well you're working 60 70
hours a week at you know 15 an hour
that's that's not fair for you guilty
well what you you brought up another
good point i mean what about
unemployment insurance so that you know
who's paying into unemployment for a
1099 nobody my dad was a painter uh
subcontractor as well i mean and he
never paid into unemployment insurance
ever and
at the end you know or
social security uh you know he needs
supplemented because he only has like
throughout his entire life he's only uh
he only contributed enough where he
makes three or four hundred bucks a
month
from social security because he was he
was an independent didn't pay himself as
an as a
as an employee so that you could start
paying into that right i've been
self-employed since i was 22 but i've
been paying into
my my unemployment my own unemployment
insurance my own um
you know um
social security all of that has been
paid since since i started the company
right and when you're an independent you
really don't think about
insurance because those plans aren't
necessarily
offered
you know if you're out on your own
unless you're doing like a traditional
or a roth ira and a lot of guys don't
even know what's out there for them to
contribute to
yeah and those are investments but just
regular insurance even i mean i'm
talking about pay
if you are just
taking in 1099 money and paying your
income taxes
but you're not paying into unemployment
right so you know a portion of every one
of our employees we have to match their
unemployment so that if they get laid
off or or you know whatever happens a
recession or whatever happens in the
world that if they're laid off there
they have you know the company has
money
in escrow with the state to pay
employees for the time that they're
unemployed right if they if they um
become unemployed those things don't
happen let alone social security i'm not
sure it'll be there by the time we all
get there or not but
you know my my dad never paid in and
that's why he has such a small amount
that comes into his
you know into him every year
so you know those are everything i think
like we need to think about as
installers when we're getting ready to
go
out on our own
i was lucky enough to have somebody tell
me just pay yourself as an employee
and you don't just you're not the bank
you don't get a thousand dollars from
your install that week and that's your
money you pay yourself in a
salary or a by the hour
whatever you make
goes into your company that's your
company's money and just you know i
think
having some of this knowledge that we've
been talking about on this call on this
conversation
can help a guy understand the real uh
commitment that it takes to do what
you guys have done what i've done is
literally
running your subcontract business like a
business
so
so
you know those are great points right
but if you started the business from
scratch and you know you you are paying
yourself
like i am not saying whatever you make
you spend but i kept most of the money
in the company if you can right if you
are the only person working
and you have to feed your family it's a
different story luckily my wife works
you know i can kind of take a lot more
risk and i don't have to take some
salary to myself but if you were to take
some salary to yourself you know you
gotta make sure that salary
is not going to bring your net income to
for your business to like negative right
you want to keep that
some income in there uh so that you
could basically what you're talking
about reinvest in the company
so
so throughout the years you know you
start building this i guess almost like
um
reserve
right now you you are able to
pay and you know pay your bills and pay
your guys it's going to take you to get
there a few years but once you get there
you have a much better cash flow that
you are able to wait for receiving your
payments your invoice but you're also
able to pay
i hope nobody goes out there and
whatever they get and they go spend
every week that's crazy
and then who's saying well i think a lot
of that happens
i know i know a lot of that happens and
i would also say that you do have to
start
when we talk when i'm talking about
paying yourself a salary
you you have to part of this is what are
your goals if you are just going to own
your job forever
make the salary big enough that i mean
like if you're just going to install
with your cousin as your helper and you
guys are going to run a really good
subcontract business but that's all you
ever wanted to be you never want to hire
more people you just want to have one
helper along with you the entire time i
would still say pay yourself a salary
whatever that dollar figure is
because
it just helps with you staying up on
your taxes and pay and unemployment
i mean for goodness sakes if the economy
took a downturn you're a sub and you've
been paying into unemployment for
forever you can be unemployed too so it
generates consistency too so if you like
uh i'll go back to the the loan type
deal you're going to go try to buy a
house or a car or something like that
you have consistency right because they
don't want to see one year you made you
know 50 grand the next year you made 80
grand and then the third year you made
30 grand they don't want to see that
they want to see some kind of
consistency they don't want to see
fluctuation in annual uh income either
and um and also to piggyback off what
hussein said he's right you
gotta keep money back into it when
when uh when we started it was dba and
we started as a dba and then uh
rolled into an llc and then classified
ourselves as employees right and that's
one thing people don't understand we've
said it a couple times that you pay
yourself as an employee
uh under llc
there are a lot more benefits to that
than you think there are dba man we put
ourselves in
not so good positions doing it that
route but yeah you're in a lot of you
put yourself in a lot of risk right in
the middle of a lot of risk
risk in the finances but once
once the llc was formed and we
restructured pretty much
the
the transition was a little hard at
first but the long-term benefits
outweigh the short-term uh discomfort of
not seeing
those dollars and cents right away um
like yeah i i would say that that
the um
you get
i mean again give with your accountants
but you have write-offs and things that
happen when you form a company and it
can help offset some of those costs like
your fuel costs and all these things
that are are business expenses now and
don't just come right out of your pocket
so i don't think that
hey if you if you know how to run a
company or you you've taken this
information and you're listening to it
you think i can do this i can be a sub i
can run then great just
i mean follow some of the you know
underlying
you know foundational principles we've
talked about but
if you're not
employee may be the best route for you
and that could be an employee with a
really good subcontractor i mean i know
a lot of guys that have 20 30 40 50
employees up even hundreds that are our
labor houses but they they pay their
guys as employees um and there are some
that do it wrong as well
but that's what this is for to try to
inform you to make sure you ask the
right questions from an employer if
you're a new installer you know say
you've been doing working for somebody
for
a a small subcontractor for eight years
and now you're going to
um
you know go out on your own
and and
be a sub as long as you understand the
parameters great on the other side of
that when you go if you wanted to go
work for somebody again don't get duped
into being paid like daniel was talking
as a 1099 guy and then tell you you're
an employee
you know
demand the right things if you're going
to be an employee i guess is what i'm
getting at there so right and there's
not
one isn't right and one isn't wrong
right because you can
pick and choose which one you want but
as an employer there is a right and
wrong way to pay an employee
you you yourself as the employer have to
actually figure out
all right i'm ready to go out on my own
but never be scared to ask people
questions because business is
it can it can get pretty confusing
there's a lot that goes into it so
definitely reach out to someone you
don't want to put yourself in the
position to where
now you want to buy a house and you
still can't even though
you're running your own thing
yeah don't get caught off guard 20 years
from now i mean we've talked about some
of the very f foundational pieces today
if you follow those you're going to be
in a heck of a lot better position than
you know i know some of us were
so
in closing here keep this thing right
close to 45 minutes every week we've
talked about the pros and cons
um
you know this this next week
you know we're going to be talking about
maybe you are a sub
image
what is the imager portraying you know
image isn't everything
but it's close
so how are you portraying yourself
that's on next week's episode of the
huddle um i want to
thank daniel and jose and
any um a couple other people that that
chimed in
and appreciate all the information and
good conversation guys you got anything
to say in closing here
no just i've i already said it don't
don't be scared to reach out to someone
that's already been through what you're
gonna go through because it's only gonna
help you out in the long run yeah
um and
i just wanna add like uh i'm a little
bit old school right and daniel brought
to the forefront a while ago for us that
there were organizations out there that
are geared around the installer and
helping educate and
people's
whether they believe it or not the
subcontractors were employed believe it
or not
everyone started somewhere and the the
majority of everyone who is in a
leadership role or position in the
flooring industry
a lot of them started where we did and
you know they they have a lot of
information that they're willing to
share it's not a secret it's not
anything they're trying to hide so try
to find an organization that fits uh
your model um do some research make some
phone calls um and
don't be shy man set pride aside
sometimes you know you're you got to put
put yourself in your family first and
there's something probably aside to ask
questions that you might be embarrassed
to ask or you might not even know you
have a question until somebody brings
something up
um
you know and
i think that uh
that is
the
maybe the best advice you can
have given is
ask questions we're going to be sharing
on this show
uh plenty of times different
organizations you can get in touch with
join this
join the the call we're we're on every
week on
every tuesday at 3 p.m central
and
send your questions in if you have any
questions we'll do our best to answer
them or we're going to have some really
great guests in the future that
that are going to be tied around uh you
know taxes and all this stuff we're
talking about but all this is built
around how to
build your career whether you're an
employee or a sub
and set yourself up for the best success
possible so with that i'm going to close
this call i want to thank the guys again
i really appreciate it and
i guess we'll see you guys next week
all right see ya
The Huddle - Episode 1 - Introduction
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up daniel what's up jose
how's it going what's going on brother
i'm here
sorry if it's a little loud i'm almost
to the office so i'll be there in about
two minutes
okay what's up daniel what are you doing
setting up this camera and stuff
[Laughter]
i guess welcome to this week's uh huddle
first official huddle so
a little bit about what we're doing here
is um
huddle's intended to bring just like a
huddle in in football it's intended to
bring
uh
people from the industry together
and
whether it's
you know company owners
industry leaders
installers
professionals for
uh you know that can assist
installers in taxes to legal issues uh
just industry overall
conversation
uh you know this is gonna morph into
any specialty construction uh person
whether they're a drywaller or whatever
but we're flooring guys so uh that's
where we're starting i'd like to hear a
little bit about daniel and jose so
daniel won't kick us off tell us a
little bit about you
and uh preferred flooring and what you
just you know uh you're kind of flooring
famous
at this point and snoring famous
so now that'll get started and and a
little bit about your background
okay my name is daniel gonzalez with
preferred flooring in grand rapids
michigan
been doing this for uh
23 23 years now
i started out when i was 12 years old in
high school
and as soon as i graduated i pretty much
graduated and then that following week i
started full time and been doing it ever
since
uh jose is my brother and business
partner we've been doing this it's
actually 12 years as of like a week ago
congrats
thanks uh it's been
like any other thing you know it's been
a struggle
but that's what business is all about
right it's all about the struggle and
getting out of that struggle
um
we were labor only for a number of years
up until probably three or four years
ago we started uh
trying to do the whole full service
thing and it isn't until uh recently
really that we really
kind of
started to catch traction with that and
uh
now we have a whole another set of
headaches because that's what happens
sure
well you got to track materials now
track everything you got to deal with uh
all the shipping and
freight and fuel surcharges and
material price increases all that kind
of good stuff
jose looks like he's walking into the
office we'll give him a second
i'll uh tell you
maybe introduce myself i'm paul stewart
i've been in flooring similar to daniel
i didn't quite start at 12
but
pretty much right out of high school
after graduation
maybe a year later or so i got into
flooring
i remember the date
it was february of 95
and
heck i did it just did not have dirty
hands i was busting down tires at the
time and
and uh i did it to
you know try to
i don't know make a living without being
so filthy that was my thought um so
i started started uh at a company as an
hourly employee
like i said in 95 um
a few years later that company was
getting ready to get bought out for like
the third or fourth time and so
i decided me and this other guy that
worked there decided we could do this on
our own so we started
uh a flooring company at the time which
was really a labor-only shop and
uh i installed for
about
another 10 or so years 12 years
and through that transition we did the
same thing you guys are doing daniel is
we started selling materials and
and uh wanted to take care of our
clients
material needs as well as labor you know
we found that there was a
shortage in
in
what i'd call good customer service at
the time particularly centered around
materials so
yeah so
that's kind of history you know a few
years later i bought my partner out and
started stewart associates and we're now
one of the largest flooring contractors
in the midwest
and
you know my real passion is really to
figure out how we can
you know
up the installers quality of life that's
probably the easiest way i can see it
that's my real passion is how do we do
that because i feel like if the
installer succeeds and is successful and
has a good quality of life that at the
end of the day that equates into the
flooring companies that use that
labor
or hire that labor out
makes us successful so
that's a little bit about
me and how we started go carrera
did that in 2017 launched our first
version in 2018
and our current version
is um
live since
20
uh i'd say september
2020 or so
so
it's a complete platform
built around empowering
the flooring installer
giving them the
kind of construction accounting tools at
their fingertips and allows them to work
with companies like stuart and
associates for flooring anybody anywhere
and kind of puts power in their hands so
that's my story dan daniel uh already
kind of went how about you jose you want
to tell us a little bit yeah
hey first of all thanks for bearing with
me miles in the truck and making a
transition here
um so same thing uh
do you remember your first date i
remember my first date was january 7th
1998.
i had a herman miller
furniture company here in michigan
um
started out as a two-week temporary
two weeks turned into two months two
months turned into two years
um i happened to bring my brother into
it you know during the summers and like
you said when he was 12 when he was
younger
um
on and off with uh
a couple different companies in the
beginning
um
had a couple go-arounds
starting my own business uh previously
um
so two other businesses before preferred
flooring um
then uh
it didn't really work out the recession
hit back in 2008 2009 is when i got it
with it pretty hard uh and
brought everybody with me to another
company to work uh
as employed by the hour for with other
companies that i had experience with
um from there we kind of stayed put for
a while until uh
until we felt it was necessary for us to
leave until we thought we reached the
camp um and
uh we we take pride in what we do and
like you said is uh
the idea was definitely installer base
the idea of preferred flooring was for
us to create
something for
the flooring installer to be to be great
at one thing to focus on the
installation and the education
um it wasn't as broad as it is now it
was more focused on just us and our
abilities but
um that's what we came up with the name
is everyone preferred daniel or myself
to be on their job sites so it just only
seemed fit to go preferred flooring
um
and yeah 12 years later now we've kind
of
adopted the sales a few years ago and
we're learning and you know
i don't like anybody else who's starting
out man we don't have uh there's no book
to tell us what we gotta do we're still
learning as we go you know we ask advice
from everyone that we meet
where are you guys located
grand rapids michigan
awesome so um technically we're grand
rapids we're in a suburb of grand rapids
is where our physical location is at
um so walker grand rapids
sweet
well a little bit about why the huddle
ever came to be
there's plenty of flooring podcasts out
there we're not really trying to you
know
just have guests on in flooring
overall
and
you know only talk about the appropriate
way to install sheet vinyl although
that's important and we'll definitely
get into some of that stuff but
um you know as an industry we struggle
to
bring on new talent we've struggled
uh with the labor shortage like many and
many of the specialty
construction companies uh or
construction industries do
but we kind of struggle even more than
some of those due to not having in my
opinion
uh really
i guess the best way to put it is
standardized training
so the training is real fragmented
there's good training out there but it's
real fragmented so
uh knowing which trainings are good and
which ones are not
and i i you know i think that you know
having discussions
like this uh
that you know
what is a good training what's a good
training you guys have been to
uh what's a good training that you know
some of our guys have been to what we've
been to or i've been to myself even
um so a lot of that stuff you know come
out through this
through these uh huddles i want to have
fun this is our first one so it's
obviously always starts off a little bit
choppy and
and uh getting our footing but uh
you know the the real purpose of the
huddle here is for us to come together
like football teams
and even though an offense and the
defense have two separate agendas
they're still part of the same team so
when the industry
or manufacturers come on and join us
you know
we got to remember we we're all part of
the same team we just have different
objectives so
i use a lot of football analogies i love
football and i love the what that sport
means to life and what it does
from a perspective of preparedness
proper training
all that stuff that kind of goes into
that heck if you're a great football
player and you you uh
apply some of those
those uh principles to flooring you're
gonna be a hell of a flooring guy too
so
what's
tell me
like over the last year
what is your guys's um personal
challenges uh what does that look like
uh starting to sell materials and and
deal with uh gcs i ha i happen to
believe one of our
one of our core issues is this idea that
in construction
that
you know flooring guys or any specialty
contractor but it seems like flooring
guys in particular are almost
treated as less than um
you know
maybe less than other trades but
certainly a lot of times uh you know
not as a professional so
what's your guys's uh journey been like
because you guys are to me i've gotten
to spend time with you some of the most
professional guys that i've gotten the
pleasure to get to know
our yeah thanks um our journey's been
like i said it's it's business so it's
been
a little rough uh we did realize early
on that
that is how
the flooring industry was
perceived
and we kind of wanted to to break away
from that because
when you show up on a job you know at 8
a.m and everyone else has been there
since 6 that's
still technically early for a flooring
guy which is crazy to me
they're like oh my god you're here
already we didn't know we thought you
guys would be here at like 10 and you
know you hear stories of guys getting
there at 10 and leaving at 2 and it's
like
we didn't we didn't want to have
we don't want people to look at us like
being just another
guy that's like that we wanted to to be
a legit business and
to
be looked at as professionals because um
i think early on in
in my flooring career you know they ask
a lot of people ask you know what do you
do in this
flooring installer and it's like oh i
didn't know there was professional
flooring installers out there
but yeah i mean really that that's what
it is right it's you're you're going in
there and you're
being professional and installing a
floor so
to be looked at as a professional we
wanted to
to actually look professional so we you
know
our logo actually our cousin did our
logo and it came from
you know just asking him and paying him
25
25 and it's like now it's everywhere
yeah
but we we didn't want to be looked at
like you said like we're less than so we
we strive to be
better than anyone around and that's
really
our footprint in the industry um not
even just over here but like you said
you've talked to us and people can see
that everywhere and we just want to let
people know that you know you do start
technically we're still real small i
mean we've got only 11 people in the
company
so
it's small but you you still have to
look big time in order to
to have people take you seriously
sometimes well you got to land work and
you got to have some some
stability there
but from the flooring it's interesting
to me
how
a lot of uh you know the companies that
are out there were started by flooring
installers so the thought that we're not
professional um
is a little comical to me
um
you know many of the companies that are
in
say fuse alliance or or star net a lot
of those companies were started by
you know old flooring guys so
they've ran uh multiple millions of
dollars uh a year and in business we got
a billion dollar flooring contractor
here in america you know i mean it's
it's uh it's not small time it's a
bigger industry than most people really
realize um
well it's not glorified
it's not glorified and i think that
that's the issue is that you know um
nothing against anybody else but when
they're pushing uh
trade school as plumbing electrical
and then you know hvac is falling in
there when they're pushing all of that
um
and then you start looking at
the lower spectrum where framing and
groupers
and concrete guys you know they push all
that before they push flooring
um you know i
i asked a question in a group of
100 people
um
about flooring no um who does the flying
the framework the finished carpenter
nobody really had an answer for that and
it was like yeah you gotta you gotta
bring
bring awareness that there is a niche
right it's not even really addiction
it's just an industry all its own just
like all the other ones
well the the
why do you think that is i mean do you
think it's because
the the training side of it i mean you
can teach framing and roofing and things
but flooring
there's really four
now even you know five or six distinct
disciplines in flooring you know you got
carpet
resilient
um
hardwood tile
and say polished concrete and epoxy so
because of that
like one technique doesn't flow over you
seem carpet completely different than
you seem
uh you know sheet vinyl i mean you're
not stretching sheet vinyl to match a
pattern necessarily i mean you know
there there's a lot of different
techniques so i wonder if it's not a bit
of that i mean you could be go
you know
how do i say this you go to like high
school shop class they can teach you how
to build a lamp or something that was my
that's what i've built right a lamp but
uh
they may not be able to teach you how to
be
how to actually install
uh all these multiple floorings now i
think they got some stuff out there the
fcef is doing some stuff at some of the
community colleges on a 10-week course
uh kind of introductory level but you
know
there's so many
in my opinion just to answer my own
question and then
get your opinion on this but
so many of the flooring guys in in our
industry learned from a relative
or something like that and they have no
way to prove or
um kind of i don't even want to say
proof but like
um
display or tout their abilities because
i mean how do you say like i learned
from my uncle you
know so without a person
yeah a lot a lot of guys take pride in
actually getting
learning from their uncle or their
father their grandfather
and it's hard for them to
sort of go to a class i think and
realize that they've been doing
something wrong their entire careers
and people just you need to stop looking
at it
like that and you have to start looking
at it like well if i'm doing something
wrong i want to learn how to make it
right and the only way to do that is to
actually
learn from
someone else
that knows the technique
and
kind of translate that into your
everyday but a lot of people
are are closed-minded like um
the last cfi class we we took you know
um we asked some guys to go and one of
them said why would i want to go and
have them tell me stuff that i already
know
but but they don't realize that all it
takes is that one trick man to save you
so much time
doing something so if you learn one
thing
in any any class you go to in a seminar
you know it doesn't matter it doesn't
have to be an actual certification but
um
continued education is paramount because
you learn one thing and
it just it changes your day-to-day and
makes things so much easier
yeah so how do you change the hearts and
minds of the installation community i
mean you guys are
you guys
are installers
high-quality installers i installed i've
got some people on this call that
installed
uh
how do you change your heart and minds
of
the installation community to realize
that
you may have been trained and maybe even
trained well from a from a relative
um
or or you know
a good friend but
you know
understanding that a standardized way of
doing a job
um
and being able to
kind of
have proof of that that that's what i'm
trying to get to here is like you know
you go to a doctor's office they got
their their dog on diplomas and their
their all their stuff on the walls or
any profession not that we're done
but they have their stuff on they're
proud of what they've accomplished in
training in learning not
they don't put their operations on the
wall they put their their certifications
and their diplomas and their
their achievements on the walls so
why why do we not have that type of
pride in going and learning our trade
i think there's a trickle effect you
know
and i'm i'm only you know obviously this
is my opinion and i'm going to go back
to when when i started doing flying is
everybody had a perception that the
flooring guys were the bottom of the
barrel right like they couldn't make it
in another industry so they ended up on
the floor um
and
we didn't
when i started and people i worked we
didn't do anything to make us look any
better either we weren't
the most uh presentable um face-to-face
we weren't the most articulate when it
came to
sitting in a progress meeting or holding
a conversation
um but you know that's individualized
right typically the one in charge
was the one sitting in all those
meetings but
from the top down there was never any
type of um
uh form
that we had to stick to we didn't have
any structure from the top down there
was no
you know electrician's got to be
licensed to do specific work the
plumber's got to be licensed they have
to pass inspection
there's a lot of different
things that they have to abide by and
books that they have to follow 100
in order for them to become successful
and move on to the next step they have
hours of apprenticeship hours of
training under certain levels to keep
moving up
and that right there that process just
the process alone gains respect visually
um and
for installs we don't have that we we
it might have said on an on a commercial
project it might have said uh must be
installed by a certified installer in a
particular material right
that didn't always get followed because
certified installers were very slim and
honestly they're still kind of slim
because
somebody who's been installing for 20
years
does feel like they don't
need to go get that certification right
um at one point you know daniel was like
hey
hey you got to go go get it you know
it's our talk go get a certification
then he came down uh to me and i'm like
you know what
i just kind of want to get a
certification and justify what i've been
doing for years like it's not even for
anybody else out there i bet you learned
something though you know we sent some
guys to cfi
and there's multiple other organizations
by the way but it just happens uh
we we sent some guys to cfi that had
been just that they learned from their
uncle literally and they were good
installers they did a good job and when
they got back they they literally were
like dude i was
i was going because you were kind of on
me about going but i actually learned
some stuff
and they'd been doing it for 10 or 15
years by that point and learned from
their uncle the thing is is it's kind of
it seems to me it's kind of like
the uh you know when using school and
they had to get in a circle and you tell
somebody something and by the time it
got back around to you is completely
different i think that some of the
trainings are the same way maybe
you know their uncle got certified or
somebody down the line was properly
trained and then as it gets it gets a
little bit diluted and that's why i
think the certifications are so
important and trainings in general
certifications
you know workshops that kind of stuff i
think they're important because it
re-ups what you know
uh it can reaffirm
uh what you've been taught but also
you're gonna probably pick up some some
key pieces there
and you know frankly
you can make a good living in flooring
and
um
so i'm i'm hopeful
that over time as this webinar podcast
whatever we decide to call it uh you
know as as we
come together and huddle every week and
bring in some
some uh some of the
manufacturers uh possibly some of the
training entities
uh whoever we can get to join us
that
we can start to kind of uh shift the
paradigm a bit
and open people's mind to the fact that
the installer in particular that
proper training
if you build a good foundation and then
you learn from somebody else it's always
better in my opinion so hopefully we can
kind of uh change change that
atmosphere i i don't know how else to
say it but i know the entire industry is
trying to solve this problem
but nobody else is getting together with
you know
all facets from installers i
i would love the day when the huddle has
you know five or 10 15 20 100 i don't
care installers and then the ceo of
e of uh you know shaw or somebody like
that where we're all together coming up
understanding what the big problem is in
our industry and we know what it is
labor we're not even
appropriately using all the labor we
have let alone um bringing in new new
blood so
some of those things are starting to
happen
um but
it's without input
i think that
i think without input from the
installation community
you got a lot of
ceos out there
with different training organizations
and uh industry organizations just kind
of making the call as best as they know
so maybe we could be a voice for the
installation community and
and um
i'd say the service side of the business
in general not just uh the main not the
manufacturing of the products we'll get
those guys on but the service side
and uh
so
we're gonna keep these things short each
week we'll see how they go but somewhere
around 30 minutes and um
so
each week we'll also
take some um we're in the
in the process of kind of formatting a
few things
uh that we did not have ready this week
but each week we'd like to take some uh
questions from the
uh you know from the audience
maybe answer them or just discuss them
i'm not saying i have all the answers
i'm not saying you guys have all the
answers but we can sure as hell discuss
this stuff and see what we come up with
what comes out of a good discussion is
sometimes
you know better than one guy trying to
answer every single question so yeah 100
and it's always it's always good to hear
someone else's opinion and voice
um you know if
regional uh
struggles might be different you know in
your area than my area but it's always
nice
to hear what's going on to see what's
going on and to learn because
you guys might be you know two years in
the future from where we're at or vice
versa and if if there's some scenarios
from other installers that are out there
or they've already hit some scenarios
hey
this is the place to bring it all out
let's talk about it let's let's help one
another it's about
bringing our industry to the forefront
for one another
yeah
there's too many installers that think
that every other installer is their
competition and what they don't realize
is that we're all in this together and
if we don't
start acting like that and kind of
bridging the gap with just the
installation community
we'll never do that with the retailers
and the stores and stuff like that it's
it's it's got to start somewhere and us
as installers have to realize that man
we gotta start talking to each other
not as competition but as equals and
uh
and learn from each other um that's
that's a big thing right we were talking
about classes and all this stuff and
just talking to some people i i can
learn
i have learned a lot from you know just
talking to installers
like we're talking now
and it's it's crazy the amount of
information that one person has that you
don't and then you just get feed it
right back to them on something that
they don't
know and we just have to start feeding
off each other and
start trusting each other really because
as a community we're kind of broken up
and it's it's time to come together
well how do we you know
that's a great point i mean at the end
of the day
quality of life for an installer
specifically the independent installer
right because he's not under the care of
a company he is a
independent
installation company himself or herself
with that being said like
the only way to change the industry is
for the installation community to band
together you know come together
discuss things
have some uh you know that's the only
way you're gonna get price enough if you
ask any flooring company at all the
conventions i've been at most of them
want to pay more but the reason they
don't pay more is because their
competitor down the street's not going
to pay the same and they're going to
lose out on work if they up their labor
rates well if the install community came
together under one
kind of uh roof
and made some some decisions there
where it doesn't matter which company
they're working for that their their
rates are going to start bumping up well
eventually the entire
industry
rates start going up right if i'm if i'm
paying the same
uh as the guy down the street or or the
the installers in our community are
charging the same for me as they are
down the street
then
when it bumps up a little bit and we use
you know we use go carrera a little plug
for go carreras
it keeps all of the
um
the power in the installer's hands to
negotiate their pricing and charge what
they
uh what they feel is uh appropriate for
their skill level
that being said
if they if it's if it's that way
throughout the entire install community
then you can start to bump up rates
installers can start to get paid more
companies can charge more and you don't
get this throat cutting scenario where
we if you're
you're doing you know contract work now
um so you guys know
like if you pay way more than your your
competitor down the street in in labor
i mean
as good as you guys are as good as we
are at the end of the day we're not
getting every job
uh we're not we're not you guys aren't
getting every job you bid
we've lost work because our competitor
pays
you know
i won't even name the rate but really
cheap for certain items and we just
can't compete with them we refuse to go
down that low
and uh to beat up the installers
yeah well i just think that if we come
together
um and there's a lot of companies that i
think sit in the same chair as we do and
a lot of installers out there want
want their quality of life to be um that
they don't have to work 90 hours to make
a living and um i think that as a entire
industry we have to address that and if
we can address that appropriately
and give a mechanism that allows
installers to
um you know
have the power
um
i think dealers and and retailers and
con you know flooring companies foreign
contractors
will start to uh bump up i know it's
worked for us we use go carrera
everybody's gonna be able to benefit
from it it brings uh it brings
visibility to the installers and brings
visibility to a skill set right you
don't want
you don't want a
joke or guy to
go and install
x material for you when his experience
is limited you want that to be a success
for you for the installer for the end
user
um and that's what what this is about
it's about bringing visibility to
strengths right you don't have to
exploit anybody's weakness but if you
bring their strength out in front of say
hey this is what i'm strong at there is
no question there is no no doubt um and
i think that that's why
this platform is going to be great for
for anybody it's going to benefit the
the flooring store the manufacturer the
installer
uh the commercial um property owner the
business owner the homeowner is gonna i
mean
it's
it's a great great tool
well getting the right guy on the right
on the project is is 90 of it and right
now because we don't have this
standardized
way of being able to
assess what an installer can do so
you know there's only a few trainings
out there that that
perk my eyebrows and make me say oh that
guy has to be good if he has that
certification
um
outside that there's there's
not a college there's no degree to get
and so
we had to build something that allows
you know
the the people who sell the labor
to be able to hire the labor
based on the skills and ability of that
that uh labor provider
and um i feel like
if we continue down this path it will
ultimately result in better installers
better uh industry and hopefully better
flooring companies too because we can
all get better so
with that you guys got any closing words
i'm going to close this off here and uh
sign us out
never stop learning i was once one of
those guys that like i i mentioned
earlier and when he was like well am i
going to go there so they can tell me
something that i already know
and once you do your your first
certification class you you realize that
i mean like i said
i was doing things wrong and
uh you you translate that into your
everyday and realize that you're you're
not a know-it-all and once you realize
that and figure out that
you can learn something new every day
you take that with you in in every
aspect of your life and
it'll help you out everywhere not just
the flooring industry
yeah
i agree i would say i would add to that
um or to this is that
if this is uh your career this is what
you're choosing then um you know
invest in yourself
invest in yourself you know even if it
isn't investing in a certification or
anything like that investing yourself
whether it's family time personal time
or you know you want to invest in your
business
do you want to work 90 hours a week i
understand i was there the only one who
worked 40 hours a week i understand
what's there you only want to work 20.
that's okay too but invest in your crap
because this is your career invest in
yourself
education cooling whatever just
put yourself
forward put yourself in the forefront of
your own life
yeah so put your put your knowledge in
your your uh career
uh you know at the top of your
at the top of your uh list of things
that you need to do and and your goals
right so
awesome well thanks for joining us this
week guys got off to a bit of a rocky
start but we're gonna get this thing
rolling uh we'll be in some
some good conversations down the road so
thanks for joining us and appreciate
everybody coming and we will uh we'll
chat with you guys next week