The Huddle - Episode 57 - So You Want to be a Commercial Contractor pt. 1 - Common Contract Pitfalls
The guys will be starting a 3-part series on the key things you need to address when you are starting your commercial flooring company. Starting with part one, where they will discuss all things contracts, common pitfalls, and how to avoid or solve them.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
family welcome to the huddle
with me as always Daniel and uh Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring up in
Michigan Grand Rapids to be specific so kids we're here every Tuesday 3 P.M
Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career we are starting today off uh a
three-part series built around uh commercial construction contracts as
it applies to the flooring contractor um so the title is so you want to be a
flooring contractor I've had some some people reach out to me on Facebook about helping them in this regard like uh
bidding practices and and uh you know how to read contracts all this kind of
thing we just had someone in here what was that yesterday yesterday uh the guys
we partnered with epoxy and they're you know there's like how do we even start
something like this like where do you even start so I would recommend that anybody with that question start with
going through the Huddle and reading our watching the estimating practices and
bidding practices uh huddles those were incredibly good we had some special
guests on that that uh for quantify uh we've had
some uh we had a lot of deep very detailed information in those in those
podcasts so I would recommend that and then watch this three-part series and you'll be well ahead you'll get a lot of
information that'll help you um you know become
a material and labor provider should you choose to do so and
um I'll caution on a few things it's it's very it's it's a difficult business
because of cash flow uh typically a lot of the contracts only
um you're only allowed to Bill once a month and I'll get into some of that but uh
without further Ado gentlemen um you know how'd the week go after you
know since the last podcast we hadn't hadn't talked in between so it's just
because everybody's busy right now busy we're I'm actually had a meeting today with the church
trying to finalize the contract and everything and it's hard when you get the volunteer
designers involved that everyone has an opinion and no one can
make a decision you have church boards um school boards anybody that was the
other one I am also dealing with the school right now the principal approved everything got the superintendent to
sign off and then he quit
start today off with some common contract pitfalls so you bid the job
you've watched previous huddle episodes and you learned how to properly estimate projects you've learned how to send in a
good bid now you have a contract what's it all mean
so um if you guys don't mind kind of uh
maybe hitting on one thing that I didn't have on my list which is how do how do
your guys well let me clarify one thing you have contracts that you generate and
you give to somebody so for example I think preferred it was just referencing you probably are giving a contract to
the church correct correct yep and then you have contracts that come to you from
General Contractors so you have work that you may do direct with some businesses that you're going to generate
a contract and that'll be in a a future episode
but this is in particular in regards to when you receive a contract from a GC to
do uh the flooring portion of their construction project uh
in your guys's experience what is the um standard paid time that you guys have
experienced like just historically you're you're looking at 60 days ish so
pretty standard like you said you can only bail once a month right so typically people are there they're like
your bills have to be turned in by the 25th on an AIA which we talked about
last time so those episodes I'm telling you if you have questions We have basically told
you guys how to build a company in 55 you know probably eight out of the 55
episodes is specifically about how to build a commercial flooring company or a
residential flooring company for that matter if you choose so the they wanted the bills by the 25th
for that to go in the building and then hopefully get paid by the next 25th if
everything goes well but typically I I always do two months out you can't
Bank yeah it is well we we consider like a good payer 45
days you know you get 60s you got 90s we got
120s I mean this is not a business for the faint of heart I want to be clear
about that so that's why I'm kind of starting it off this way just so you understand you you have to have some
either either have cash and I've talked about this in previous episodes either have to have a good amount of cash or
you need to have a good banking relationship that you can tap into a line of credit when you need to because
if you have to build like Daniel was just talking on the 25th well then
they don't turn their bill in they have seven days to assemble their bill to the owner and so then seven days
later they turn in their bill so now you're at like the fifth or so of the next month
depending on what month uh how many days during that month but let's say it goes to the owner on the fifth then the owner
has 30 days to pay them so that puts it on the fifth of the next month if the owner pays on time this is assuming
everybody pays on time so then the owner pays them on the fifth of the next month and then they have seven days and I know
that this statute is different by state but in Kansas they have seven legally they have to pay you within seven days
of receiving payment from the owner so another seven days means it's a 12th
maybe the 15th will you build the 25th that's 45 days if everything works great
so um just keep that in mind as we get into some of this but uh okay so you've got a
contract there's some common pitfalls and contracts are very complicated so I
would very much encourage you to get an attorney to look at your contracts until your very first at doing them yourself
this is for educational purposes but not Financial advice or telling you exactly
how to deal with your contracts we're giving you some pitfalls and some known uh experiences but this is not in
replacement of you getting legal advice so talk to your attorney find a good
contract attorney not not just any family law attorney or something or your
uncle that practices traffic loans get a construction attorney that is very
aversed in construction contracts okay so some of the common pitfalls
um that you'll run across is and one of the early early paragraphs in those
contracts is default so default is when you don't uphold your
side of the bargain and the contractor has you know some tools at his disposal or
at their disposal rather um and it's usually listed in the contract with their tools are but 90 of
them the tools are they can put you on notice and when they put you on notice you have a certain
period of time to uh resolve the situation that got you put on notice in
the first place maybe your materials didn't show up or your your short labor whatever the problem
you have a certain period of time now that period of time used to be like
seven to ten days it's now on most construction contracts that I've read two to three days uh-oh we got the
expert in the house [Music] so what do you guys
um what are you guys seeing on default from a day's perspective as far as the response you know it's kind of hard
because we haven't really put ourselves in that position yet so yeah it's hard to say how they would act
and how other specific contractors would react um were
usually pretty people in the in the contracts it's typically seven days still for us okay
and then depending on the relationship you have with that that contractor it's like uh
hey man I'm not gonna get there within the seven days but I'll be there on this day and they're like totally fine as
long as you're in here there it's yeah so build those relationships and watch those huddles about building
relationships because it'll get you out of some trouble right we're getting close to being put on notices
yeah what helps with that is is when the first one comes up and there is an issue and you can do it within the first one
or two days then the next time they're like oh you're not going to be here until day eight no problem yeah just get
here we haven't we haven't been hit with that with that strong pimp hand yet uh of
utilizing some of the legalities they have at their favor based off their contract so but a lot of the times we're
punching out our own stuff as we go anyways we just did uh our local chamber and the only thing on the flooring punch
list was a piece of Base that the door guys messed up
when you walk away with the low punch list congratulations the crew did it the
crew did all that so a lot of the times in this you know three to seven day period they're
expecting you to give them a plan on how to get back on track in writing
um so one of the things is you can negotiate that if it says two to three days
you know try to get that to seven days so you have a little bit more time so it's a
pitfall at two days it's hard to turn things around in two days sometimes on a big construction project and
again it still boils down to good relationships
um we've gotten probably a handful of letters over the last 20 years where we were not performing the way the
contractor wanted us to and that could be I won't get into it sometimes it's like lack of
understanding on how much can be done in a given day and they didn't have their
durations right uh you know expecting 2 000 feet of ceramic tile to be installed
in a day or something uh yeah to the fact that you know sometimes we have not
been able to perform to the uh perfect level um I own that when that happens but we
turn them around the key here is from a contract perspective trying to
negotiate you know five days or something um so that's a default uh quick other uh
termination of the contract is a a possibility they can supplement you and
charge you whatever the cost is for bringing in another flooring company to supplement you
he's gonna jump on on his phone he's gotta take off you know I just realized I had a time uh overlap so I got to go
fair enough we'll catch you on the mobile uh but
so terminate they can they can supplement you and then charge you the different the whatever the other
flooring company charges now that is most GCS do not want to do that that's a
lot of extra paperwork if you'll remember one thing make their life easy like easier the better the
experience for your your contractor you keep it as simple as possible and as
easy as possible they don't like problems so they don't want to be hunting down another flooring company to
come supplement you your best bet is to you know make the uh proper adjustments
and do the best you can in getting their project back up to uh what they feel is
a a good State um the other thing they can do is just
determinate your contract and hire somebody else and then you're on the hook for whatever they pay so if you got
a fifty thousand dollar contract and you've done you've got all the materials and you've done 10 of the labor well
you've incurred probably 70 75 of the cost and then they're going to hire somebody
in to come and do the Labor uh you know your competitor is not going to do you
any favors and they're in charge of whatever they want yep they'll charge whatever they want now
quick pro quo make sure that your GC knows uh that you expect to have daily reports
on the hours the time the cost of that that supplementation or that uh you know
termination and then what they're going to be charging you but best bet don't get in that position
so and then they have termination uh for convenience in a lot of contracts and
that's just maybe the owner just changes his mind mid Midway and shuts the
project down legally they got to pay you cost to that date but they don't owe you any of the profit under those
circumstances so if you have 50 000 in cost they're legally on the hook for that 50 000 but not your profit you're
going to lose that more than likely most courts have upheld that as well so we
haven't gotten in that position but uh these these this is just knowledge over 20 years we've been supplemented one
time in 20 21 22 years or whatever it's been so [Music]
um those are the termination those are the scary things a lot of this is uh
kind of maybe a little bit scary but it's just the fact so that's what the
purpose of this podcast is kind of give you some information and education like you said you've been through it one time
in 20 some years but that information just knowing that it could happen like hey I remember they said something about
this let me give Paul a call and see what I should do real quick yep
um and and playing off of the payment that we've just talked about when Daniel was talking about paying on the 25th and
we went through the time frame there uh another key metric and I've talked about
this in previous podcasts as well but one thing you want to remember is if you cannot build till the 25th and your net
30 with all your vendors try not to have your materials come in on the first
because you're going to hold that receivable now it's going to be almost due before you can even bill for it
so try to have your materials land at your Warehouse or be billed
close to the time that you're going to be able to build that way you're not out that cash for as long a time just a
little nugget or you can get insurance and send pictures and Bill for all the material while it's sitting in your
Warehouse too well you can do that but if you're not able to build until the 25th still that's true and your
materials come in on the fifth you're holding that receivable for 20 days so
you only have 10 days left to pay when you when you just bill it so it's a cash
flow thing try to get your materials come in most contracts will allow you to bill for stored materials as long as you
have the proper insurance and like Daniel just said you can provide pictures
uh okay another thing on my list was um liquidated damages I don't know if I
mentioned that but those are just verify that your contractor is
going to incur liquidated damages liquidative damages by definition is a
dollar figure predetermined dollar figure meant to give back to the owner for lost
um lost profit for not being able to be in business so if you're doing a law firm and they're not able to move in on
the data that they're supposed to and they figure they're gonna lose you know five thousand dollars a day in profit
they uh will predetermine what the per day liquidated damage is these are not
meant to be penalties for non-performance most contracts will
like if you read the AIA contract the standard contract uh that all other
contracts basically derive from uh they're not meant to punish you
so make sure they're your GC is incurring those damages if they're in
your contract because otherwise the GC can charge you for them but he's not paying them so it's more of a penalty so
just a quick pro quo there right typically with flooring we're the last ones in there so
we're on the hook for that almost every time if you're not trying to stay ahead of it that is one hell of a good point
sir the fact is is because we're supposed to be last uh we're not always but we're pretty near the end of the
project and the time crunch on Florian contractors and painting The Finnish
people is waiting for stressful than being a concrete contractor at the
beginning of the project or uh uh you know earthwork company or a still erector or something of that nature uh
it's so early on the project the pressure is not as crazy as us finish
guys so that that's uh there's good and bad about both sides of
that right because that they'll steal most times everyone that starts in the
beginning their warranty doesn't start until everything is completed at least we're out in the end of that so that way
our warranty starts almost as soon as we finish the job yeah that's a good point too uh so your one year warranty that
Daniel just spoke about most contracts I think pretty nearly every contract's
gonna say one year workmanship warranty if you that starts on substantial
completion the contractor and the owner agree on the substantial completion date
so it's usually like Daniel said one of the benefits of being near the end is your one-year warranty starts pretty
close to when you finish the job compared to say somebody who was early on in the project
their one-year warranty still is not going to start until substantial completion which could be four five six
months after they're done and off the job yeah we have one at a hospital right now
where they're still not done and we've done you know multiple different phases and
it's been over I think it's been almost a year since we've actually even been in there
yeah I've got some Hospital work like that too where uh we did the last phase
is not even near a year old but the first phase is two and a half years old and we still have to go back and fix
stuff on warranty there if it comes up now luckily we did a really good job I
haven't had to do that more than maybe a couple of times and it's a large project so it's been it's been pretty
good I wonder if there's a way to to put in literature uh to protect against that if
it is phased out you can ask uh
yeah we did ask uh on a contract that per phase per major phase if you have major
phases uh I think you can maybe get it through I asked and it goes from phase
one two three just like it just flows across the building um and they rejected that request
so um don't know if you don't ask but yeah ask a lot of this stuff is just exactly
that trying to get the best deal for your company a contract before you sign it is just a negotiation
so negotiated um you know and obviously working with good
companies that you've got a good relationship with is is Paramount but a
lot of times when you start out you get you guys may not have those strong relationships yet and you have to
live by the letter of the law which is your contract
um we talked about the the payment dates and everything and that goes to pay when paid most contracts uh are paying when
paid meaning the contractor is not actually on the hook to pay you it's the
owner that's on the hook and the contractor is there to uh pass through
the money as they receive it and they get a fee on that money so most uh most
contracts are pay when paid some areas of the country are paid if paid I would
encourage you to fight that better that totally takes hold risk off of the
DC to pay you and um so I would there there get with your
attorney on that but um I've heard that and we're going to start fighting the pay of pay or pay
when paid thing and start to put some more terms in or try to get some money
down I've been when we were labor only we got caught in one of those where one
of the biggest construction companies over here went bankrupt and it was their
one of their last projects on a building downtown and there was extensive prep
work and everyone's like yeah here we're signing this we're signing that you know additional stuff and then once it came
down to it uh even the people that we were doing work for the flooring store was like oh
yeah we didn't get paid for this so we're not going to pay you and it's like that's not my contract that's your contract
yeah we take care of our labor still we're the ones that are on the hook and really
that's how you got to be as a good flooring contractor in my opinion uh most of your
subs are not in the position to be in this pay of paid pay when paid kind of
world you sign the contract you agreed to the terms unless you're letting all your subs read
the contract and sign a contract that is identical to yours you can't you know I
think it'd be kind of shitty for lack of a better word to then try to hold them to a contract that you agreed
to that they may not have right um that is correct I mean uh man like
how many lay it from a labor only perspective I wonder how many people actually
understand that there is a master contractor which uh someone has to abide by and how many of the original Master
contracts do uh the contractors let us really see
this before they edit and make it their own um well the AI contract is the kind of the
one that most other contracts came from so getting
that and that's public and all I mean you can get an AIA contract by from Google right a lot of your DCS will
still use the AIA contracts and there's some stuff in there that's not great for the subs uh for the subcontractor like
the flooring company uh but read through that that'll kind of give you a baseline understanding of how most contracts read
um okay so that's pay when paid payoff paid stuff accepting uh okay so the retainage do
you guys ever negotiate your retainage amount so a lot of the times no
well a lot of the guys that he deals with we actually don't pay any retainage so that's great the guys that I deal
with um are the same people that I see in like chamber meetings and stuff like that so
I'm constantly in those meetings they're like what can we do to get the smaller guys you know a better chance it's one
Breakout the bids more right and then number two is work on retainage and then
uh it was crazy because the first couple jobs that we did for some of the bigger guys uh they had retainage in there at
10 and before I even asked they were like you guys are locked in at five
that's awesome that's because Daniel went in there with donuts helped them out brought him
breakfast and lunch so so bribe them with food it's not
bribing not brownies yeah yeah yeah
um the point is is that most contracts come across at 10 and you can negotiate it
down we've been successful in getting a lot of those negotiated down to five percent
so a lot of it has to do with your past work performance so you may have to be
Crow for a little bit and accept 10 but it still never hurts to ask it to be
lowered to five but once you get a good reputation with the GC most of the time they'll lower it to five if you ask them
and some of them have just done it yeah and one of the contracts that um
and one of the projects we just finished they actually had it so it's 10 up until you hit 50 of the project and then you
can ask to be lower to five yeah and I've also Progressive yeah I've also seen it where when you're
50 they pay you 50 of your your retainage I don't know if that math works out the same but
um point is is retaining just somewhat negotiable if you just ask and that's something that you have to
realize too like as a Commercial contractor it's yeah you're sending out
all these bills but sometimes this retainage takes a while like you're looking for a huge chunk of
money for longer than you would like and in some cases that could be some of some of your
your profit margin too right or the majority of it because you had to go so tight just to be
relevant on that that bitter that big Market um and it does take a while and it
don't I'm pretty sure that at some point Daniel doesn't look at each other like man do we really want to do this is this
something like we have to build something up we have to be comfortable we find a way to be comfortable um
just meet people like like Paul who help you out and give you advice or they're
like we didn't have we didn't have the Huddle um obviously when when we were starting so there was no information and nobody
talking about it and it was one of those things where you ask but nobody wanted to share information
because everybody wanted to keep it to themselves uh so it's just I do like that Daniel I
do hear him on the phone um talking about the job and negotiating some of the contract well hey this says
this this is this well I could do this but what about this like if we can trade this off that that would help us out too
and it's never any argument I don't ever hear any argument from that guy um from the other side of the line
anyway otherwise Daniel would go I don't want to talk to you anymore but uh
well no yeah be willing to negotiate and a quick uh
comment on retainage our 45 and 60 day comments does not apply to retainage
that I've had that run a year and it gets ridiculous
so just be prepared that your retainage can be held for a long time
um and sometimes not even because of you um we've had jobs where our retained
interests held under no fault of our own for a longer period of time because maybe the electrician put the wall wrong
wall sconces in and the The Replacements aren't coming for three months and
the owners holding all the retainage uh until those are done so it doesn't
always reflect on you but you're still being held as part of the contract team
the overall construction team um so that's a retainage
the last thing I have which I think is important is sometimes you'll get a contract that doesn't have any scope to
it it doesn't say what the contract amount is for um if you're bidding what we call hard
bid jobs I'm not sure what you guys call it but this jobs that are on the street that you're going to compete with it's
open bid it's the open bid Market where Indy flooring company can throw a number
at it we still bid a fair amount of that work we like to negotiated more
obviously but those open jobs uh we still do bid
and a lot of those contracts will come across and say you know scope of work
per uh zero nine six eight oh carpeting specification and they'll list out the
specs and the drawings and that's it I still would ask for a scope and
um if you're doing a job with a a more of a negotiated job then you definitely
want a scope you know furnish and install carpet tile transitions you know
and accessories and like because what they try to do is
and this is what the key is you need to have a scope because your
respect may say something about protection of floors for example but we exclude protection of floors on our on
our bids because we can't be the sheriffs of the project and I explained
that to the GDC I'm like if anybody has the power to keep people off of our floor or be careful on the floor too
because if you put me in charge of protection then I have to replace any damage that
happens um well then I don't want any output protection down but I don't you're not
going to have ladders you're not going to have lifts you're not going to have this that the other like and they don't want me being the sheriff
of their job so we just exclude protection if they just list your spec
and the like the drawings or the the bid documents on without a full scope well
you're agreeing to that if you sign and you don't have your exclusions listed so
I always ask for a scope uh exhibit that says what they want me to provide and
recognize my exclusions leveling you know skim coding unless otherwise listed
on the bid we exclude skin coding additional floor prep leveling filling
all that kind of stuff you don't know what you may or may not have to do until you get to the job and review the slab
and it could be a brand new piece of concrete I got into a long discussion with a good friend of mine a friend of
mine in that's also the president of a pretty good size construction firm any
he got a seven thousand dollar change order from us now we haven't we hadn't done the work there's another uh
nugget for you don't do that you get a change order guys uh but we submitted a
change order request or PCO as we call them potential change order he calls me says there's no way
it's that bad this is brand new concrete this is bad this is the other and I'm like have you been to the site
no will you go look at it and then then call me right right he calls me back
he's like oh my God I can't believe that got by uh
you know that they let their their concrete contractor get away with what they got away with and you know we
obviously ended up getting that change order performing the work and taking care of the client giving them a great
floor but if if I just sign a document that has all the floor prep uh needed to
perform the the material that's in the spec you know specs read very vaguely
that way well I'm agreeing to to all this floor prep that may be there
um so and there's other there's protections within the spec that's in your favor but I'm just saying the key
here is to understand that if you have a full scope that you can Mark out say protection of floors you know uh we've
had it like stripping and waxing at the end I'm like that's uh some spinal cleaning we exclude final cleaning well
you know those kinds of things yeah we do the same thing and when I
do come across someone that's like nope we still want you to include floor protection and it's like all right well
I'm gonna break it out then because I'm not going to include it in my main bed I know no one else is going to yeah yeah
if you're if we're asked to provide for protection we break it out and
we just we're just not cheap with it because we're going to use good quality uh protection materials
because really when you are in charge of protecting the floor you're also accepting the risk of having to replace
because somebody damages it so somebody stole their water on the red rosin paper
that someone else covered it with and it stains your your flooring and
yeah we learned that one through someone else not through us but yeah like Ram
board's great for scratches and stuff but you know it's not going to displace weight so if
they're gonna drive a 5 000 pound lift on your tile floor seven days after it's installed
without putting half inch plywood down uh you know what I mean so we just try
to stay away from protecting the floors and only doing it when we absolutely are
required to do it but that's some of the uh broad overview
broad Strokes of likes and pitfalls that these construction contracts that will
be given to you uh may have in them thought you guys uh have any others that
come to mind uh that you've seen over over the course of time here for you
I think we've actually been pretty lucky so far to where some of the companies either just use what we send them and
sign it and send it back or um I've seen like even some of the bigger companies
over here they'll actually do their contract and then right at the very end they'll have all of our stuff in there
too so that way there's no question this is included in there yeah I like it when they had my fear
there's an exhibit right yeah I love it when they do that it doesn't happen with the really big companies around here
anyway they don't do that but some of your mid-sized gc's that 50 to 80
million dollar contractor they'll just add your your bid as an exhibit I love
that because it's like this is now part of the contract right there's no question it's in there like
it's written in stone yeah yeah I I'm glad you brought that up I
when that does happen you know brings up a question I haven't asked for
that to happen very uh to be honest it just either happens or it doesn't I I hadn't asked for that to be added as an
exhibit just just gotta I'll I'll report back and let you know how that goes I'm
gonna start asking uh for our bid to be added as an exhibit to the contract
you know what that's actually a good idea that we've never I don't think we've ever actually just been there
we're like oh that's pretty cool now there is no there is no um they cannot argue that there is a hidden
agenda or the information was left out because especially when our group we're pretty specific but Connecticut
um pretty specific as to what and going back to the scope too right
because on one of the projects they were that we were on and I think I brought it up before it's in the scope it said
spec new carpet throughout what does that mean that means I'm specking a new
carpet and then they came back with I don't understand and how would you you would interpret it like that I said read
it out loud this is he's not conversating with the
architect you guys like this guy's like you guys won the proposal
and then he just said when Daniel said that I was in the office and I was like
covered nothing like what was their uh intent because he said why would you why
would you expect a new carpet I said because it says right in there to spec new carpet
because they want at first they were just gonna do an expansion and just do new flooring in the expansion and then
one of the alternates was spec new carpet for replacement throughout the entire building so I was like I can save
him a bunch of money if I just packed this new carpet
they went with the other manufacturer anyways and ended up being like
twenty thousand dollars more so I tried but he he did I think after I
told him read it out loud and tell me how you don't understand how why I did that and after I said that he was like
I'll call you back gentlemen
yeah sorry about that I do got to tempted my son though he was my warehouse guy today did some some
inventory for me so I appreciate that but now I gotta get him ready to rock awesome
good luck brother thank you friends we got someone better anyways there we go way better
so what I'm still curious what was the architect's intent in that sentence
they never said anything they just came back with uh okay just give us a price for the other
carpet all right that's that's crazy yeah so when you are biddy and again go
back to the bidding and and uh estimating that's the big thing is read
and understand what is going on right because if you're not reading that spec if I wouldn't have read that and I would
have just if I would have just did the that same carpet I probably would have
lost a bid right off the bat anyways because I know a lot of other people read it the same exact way I did
yeah yeah reading those your specs and reading through your construction
documents we did a whole thing on estimating and and bidding practices two
separate episodes so I won't get into it now go back and read those
um or watch those episodes but once you get a contract the whole purpose is then
whatever you sent them into a bid so they sent you a bid or you sent them a
bid for um you know carpeting at a hundred thousand bucks
if you're reading the the
if you're if your proposal States a certain carpet for example and then
later in the contract they have a different carpet than what was on your bid form it's funny how they get the
dollar a figure right right some of the other uh particulars on how you came to
that dollar figure on your bid wasn't included in the contract so and not only that look at all the figures too because
I've had some contracts come back where it's like these numbers do not add up so
yep I've had plenty of contracts come across that did not have the right dollar figure on
and oh we forgot this uh one of the most common is they'll act they'll say an
alternates accepted but they won't even have they didn't have the alternate dollar figure on there
um we've had that happen it's a simple phone call but you must read your contracts and understand what
you're you're signing on the line for and there's legal ramifications so again
get a construction attorney to review your contracts I would encourage you to
review them with them uh so that you can learn because once you have the
knowledge you can read the contracts on your own right and give yourself a few hundred bucks
and don't be shy to give people a call and ask questions and stuff like that because I know like Millennials and
younger we were like text me right or email why are you calling me but a lot
of it can be done a lot faster when it's over the phone follow-up email just
saying what you just talked about because you can email back and forth for days and no one understands what the
hell is going on yeah yeah so pick up that phone and make a make a you know
make a phone make a better contract for yourself I mean you can work through a lot of those issues
that that uh may come up the bottom line is this you bid the job under a certain
understanding you portray that on your bid form as best as you can
possibly do and then you need to make sure your contract matches that
all the assumptions and all the work that you put into putting that beta
um you don't want to be signing the contract that that has stuff in it that you did not figure and you also you know
some of these pitfalls we talked about in this is like you know if you can negotiate better terms you should try
um that that's the overlying thing and I think what you can see here from what
Daniel and Hosea both said as well as myself in this podcast is that you can a lot of times it works
sometimes it doesn't but you will never know if you don't ask and then there are some things that you just can't agree to
I mean how are you going to protect a hundred thousand for the flooring for free right and make any money you're going to be out of business in no time
so uh you know if you didn't figure floor protection Redline that on the contract send it
back to them initialed uh next to your red line and they a lot of times will
agree to your markups or your changes so don't be scared to another time saving
uh mechanism is say you get a DocuSign contract print that sucker off make your
markups email it to the PM that sent it to you and say Here's my markups can you please uh consider these as uh and and
rewrite the contract and most of the time it happens as long as it's not something ridiculous or a big contention
piece so that that's my
47 minute uh 47 minute uh contract uh
um Pitfall explanation and deep dive yeah and a lot of it it's it's easy to
hear us talking about it but until you're like in the thick of it you won't know until you have that
contract in front of you and you're reading over you know 15 pages and making sure that everything is is
aligning with what you submitted yeah yeah and and so if you're watching
this on YouTube or or one of the social networks like it comment you know subscribe to
our YouTube channel um I say that to also say if you have a if you get into a contract
situation or you you get a contract you don't know refer back to this podcast watch it
see if if we addressed it otherwise reach out to us uh we can give you some
surface level advice but again I don't want to replace an attorney or act like I'm an attorney I know neither does
Daniel or Jose so we're not giving you legal advice we're just giving you our experience and clearly telling you to
get a construction attorney to look at your contracts until you feel comfortable reading them on your own
right Eduardo uh did say that he had a question about go Carrera but I think he
might have jumped off already oh gotcha happy to answer let me see if
he texted me because I texted him no he might he might have got busy well
tell him to email me and I will give him a call
all right well any closing thoughts there Mr Daniel
it is scary when you start getting into all this stuff but like I said you're not gonna know until you start doing it
so a lot of uh being an entrepreneur is pretty much
taking the dive and and hope you land good right
take the risks um I would say a lot of this is sold by a good performance
so making sure you are you know taking care to have the best installers on your
team you know I will plug gokara get into go career and you know
preferred is to go for our company uh I will say we're getting ready to start building uh as gopher building the
network out around them um you know once the company is is live on go career we come to your area and
build the installer Network around you and give you the metrics through the hammer rating and
um and uh past performance and things like that so you know who you're dealing with
right and the the guys the guys that we have signed up um one of them is really technology illiterate
so I've been had to you know walk his hand you know hold his hand through this situation and sign up and everything but
once he got that through his his first project he was like this is actually kind of nice man
yeah and then the next time I just threw a job on there and he accepted it right away it's like yeah this is what can
happen when when you build something like this it's it's not me calling hey what's going on it's me throwing it up
there you telling me when you can do it and then I'll schedule it yeah I will uh I'm gonna read you
um I got a testimonial just the other day sent to me
and this is a flooring installer out of Kansas City
it says finally someone who brought the flooring installation industry out of the Stone Age
like you know exclamation point uh points thank you go Carrera go Carrera
is frankly the easiest and best way I've ever used to find flooring jobs no matter where in the country I might be
there's a chance that I can pop open the app and find a project
now he works mainly in the Midwest and we're really strong here so he has a really good experience in doing that
um negotiate I can find jobs bid jobs negotiate the money or the schedule the
change orders are easy it's organized communication between the installer
the uh the installer provider and the customer and the flooring company all on
one app and then I mentioned getting paid as fast this is the only flooring app I will use again thank you thank all
of you at go career for dragging this side of the of my industry out of the Pony Express era so you know sometimes
it's hard to get going because look we're asking for a lot of data we're trying to really verify uh that the
installer is who he says he is and that can take time and it can be a little bit
difficult we need to have documentation on on file for the companies who are
going to hire you to uh you know know your company know you're covered on insurance
um those kinds of things but once you get to using it it is very intuitive and
easy and um we're adding companies uh we're adding installers at a very good
rate it depends on the metropolitan area we're targeting but even in small metros
we're getting five to eight new installers on a daily basis and those
turn into full profile probably two out of those uh you know I'd say probably
five or eight in a whole week uh so maybe 10 of those turn into 10 15
percent of those turn into full profiles on the application so um yeah anyway that's a quick go career
plug but the point there is know who you're dealing with try to try to do good quality work communicate
well with your installer subs and your employee installers and then communicate
with your GDC well all those things will help a lot and all these things are
really all these contract things we talked about are really just if something goes wrong
then this is their recourse your job is to try to keep it from going wrong so
address the things that will um put you in a bad position
negotiate it but also your performance is your number one defense so
and doing work with good companies check out the GC firm too
um make sure that you check other call other subs well it doesn't matter you
call electrical subs and drywallers and Painters and ask them uh if they've
worked for that that GC firm before and make sure that they're a good company right so doing doing work with good
companies and then uh performing well take away most of your headaches right and one more uh plug before we take off
from here is uh you guys are still giving away the the yeti tumbler right yes we still have
Yeti tumblers to get away on uh anybody who reaches a thousand dollars on Direct
invoicing so you can invoice anybody through that um through that uh part of the
application just go to invoicing and toggle over to direct invoices and you
can build and and gain for uh redoing the carpet in our basement from that to
to you know if you're doing a little side construction project and doing a little remodel or whatever uh you can
get paid right through the uh app and you can accept credit cards and it's it's helped a lot of Crews that
had to turn down work because the customer wanted to pay by credit card and they wanted to get paid Checker cash
uh because they didn't have a way to accept credit cards all you got to do is be a GoPro uh member credit cards right
and that's the other thing too is I hear a lot of people complaining it's like I don't want to accept credit card because
they charge me you know this much percentage while you just build that into your price and that's all you got
like how do you think why do you think we accept credit cards because if if I'm pricing everything like I am
accepting a credit card then when someone does pay with a credit card it's already covered and if they do pay by
check it's just that extra percentage that goes in my pocket in case anything happens later yeah you should figure as
uh kicker just like you said that you're gonna accept credit card figure the four
percent fee and just have it as part of your build uh it most
time is not going to kick you out of winning the project especially if you're good at what you do but it just gives
you another way uh and separate you from other installers that simply cannot accept credit cards I mean getting a
merchant account outside go career is not the easiest thing in the world uh it is easy to get if you're a GoPro member
though a good career uh you know Network installer so all right last plug is fcicas and uh CFI
conventions coming up very quickly it's in the end of September what is it 27th through the
31st or something like that uh I hope you guys can join us there uh it's gonna
be a blast and uh well I I don't know if we're going to be there during a Tuesday
but if we are we'll be shooting the podcast live on location again we've done that a few times but um make sure
to get to that one if you can get to any conference I've been to the fcica's I
don't know for five years and same with CFI and they've always been separated
and I think they'll continue to have some of their own conventions but this one is a joint convention between the
two entities and I I can't imagine it not being fantastic so
get to Orlando it's an awesome hotel right right yeah it is it's beautiful
beautiful hotel and they have some really good drinks at the pool bar when
uh closes down there you go good drinks and
then I will give you a cautionary note I've seen an alligator once when I was going for a run that's why I don't run see
safety man all right my brother well thanks for joining that's going to end our episode
of uh the Huddle and uh next week we'll be talking more contract
um you know uh particular so join us next Tuesday at three o'clock and until
then we're out all right see you guys later
The Huddle - Episode 56 - Building Long Term Customer Relationships
This week the guys discuss building and maintaining a reputation to last.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up my flooring people
welcome to the huddle we come at you every Tuesday at three o'clock P.M
Central sorry I'm over here stuttering uh but we bring you uh thoughts and
ideas on how to maintain forward progress in your flooring career with me as always Daniel and Jose
Gonzalez from Rapids Michigan preferred flooring
guys are uh as as usual Daniel's in the office and Jose is out on the road
so it's it's uh it's proof of their
their um their dedication to the customer and and somewhat of what we're talking about
today about maintaining or building uh quality reputation in the flooring
industry and this really goes across any specialty contractor but um anyway if
you are joining us on any of the socials or on YouTube please consider giving us
comments some likes and subscribes uh I appreciate everybody's comments on
Facebook and and Views and everything preferred floorings uh Facebook page got
blown up last week it was pretty awesome so uh we appreciate all the comments and
and questions so that being said today what do you guys
think is uh building a reputation important I don't think we were we'd be where we
at with where we're at now without building a reputation yeah I mean
it doesn't just apply to business right you got to think about the reputation you have as a student as an employee
um as an athlete like you know every relationship is is based off of a
reputation or the promise of a good reputation so
well I love that you brought that up because it segues right into when you're an installer and when you uh if you're
regardless but particularly uh remember as as companies as people as installers
as as as as um whether you're a foreign contractor or foreign company but installers in
particular remember your online reputation and your reputation so what
you're on Facebook doing and all these things remember that is your business so
getting on uh you know Facebook and and just got to be cognizant of what you put
on social media people will judge you from that uh it may not even be a good depiction of who you are or what you're
capable of doing or or the person you are but you really want to be uh very
cognizant of the fact that what is going on these screens people find later and it may not shine a
great light on you and harm your reputation um I've seen a lot of that in the
installation community and um you know if you come off
on on social as a complainer constantly well
it's very possible that a potential uh partner in in business is going to see
that and uh judge you accordingly to that without knowing you really so just
a cautionary tell I know it's happened I know that when we hire people uh and
even when we hire subcontractors or partner with subcontractors you know we
utilize go career to to do that on the subs but we check social media and all
that too we want to know what kind of people we're dealing with and um so keep
that in mind when you're online what about when you're dealing with your clients and you you know run across let
me ask you let me actually pose it as a question when you guys run across you know
complicated or difficult scenarios with your with a customer on a project
is reputation on the front of your mind top of mind when you're dealing with
them for me the answer is
not always it all depends on the scenario
my first priority is to make sure that I'm doing my best to solve a problem
remember well that I can't solve anything um no I was just going to say that that
plays into your reputation as I see you guys as problem solvers
yeah yeah and that's that's where I think that that's my that is my
priority all the time is make sure that I'm doing my best to solve um
problems and issues or to be proactive and making sure that we're preventing
any future issues and NASA and that does create
uh I guess it does create that in a sense but that's always the first I never worry about like oh I I hope that
they think I'm professional I hope that they think uh that we did a good job it's just
I'm going to be professional and I'm going to do the best job I can and if that is going to
in return build a reputation then that reputation is organic off of workmanship
off of Pride off of uh just everything that we put into it
that I put into it um that that's called authenticity
I mean you get your reputation from being you really are and doing it all the time
it's hard to maintain that phony reputation it's pretty easy it's just the hardest a genuine reputation if you
if you try yes yes that's the hardest
I've seen people try it though I've seen people do it they're always somebody different in front of me than they are
in front of their client and uh or or other inconsistent in general there's uh
someone that we just met for the first time like what two years ago that said that they're the ones that taught us how
to do flooring yeah stuff like that laughable that's
laughable but you know we have this concept at the company at the flooring
company that is um we kind of weigh
we call it the skills of justice but there's three scales and it's reputation
relationships and money and you can't give up
none of the scales can tip all the way down and just crash and burn
um you know so sometimes you got to give up a little bit of money to to maintain
a relationship or a rep your reputation as as a as a business
um that's just you know we we I preach that a lot in our so does our rco that
hey guys money is important that's why we're all in this but at the same time it's part of the the
equation when you're trying to maintain a relationship with a client or maintain
your reputation in the market I actually just ran into the scenario
with our buddy Bob for their life he got put between a
rock and a hard spot on a project and trying to chase money and I just said
look we'll figure it out it'll come out in the wash one way or another let's just figure it out so I changed
the the way we were going to build it because we were fine financially with
that and then it ended up not being as much as he anticipated right because I changed the
format which we were building it and and uh then you know the next day he's
like you know what just build the whole thing we'll just take care and I I was like are you sure like I you
need to make money too dude like I want to make sure that you guys are making money right we'll figure it out like we
have a good working relationship I know that over the next 12 months six months 18 months we'll get it figured out and
it'll all come back I'm not worried about it he was like no let's just do it all right
okay with it it's interesting I've heard you say that you and Daniel uh say stuff like that
where you've built that relationship with somebody and you got the reputation with
them that that um you know it'll you'll treat them fair and and it'll work out in the end and uh
that you want them to make money that's the piece that I I hear you you care
about your client your customer and making money as well yeah yeah you you it's um
they're not in the position to hire us to make money right right that's what
business is all about is making money so that's where Partnerships come in right we're part of the team this is a
partnership we're dancing we're dancing sometimes we take the lead sometimes they take the lead sometimes
somebody that we don't know takes a lead and we just follow it it's just a big dance as long as at the end of at the
end of the shindig we're all happy we can all sit back and and laugh about that that journey and joke around then
then we're winning we won so when do you do does your relay does
your reputation uh I mean it brings you work I know that for a fact so does it
bring you the high quality work you guys desire I mean does it does it help in that manner as well
I think your reputation like um I've been
lately a couple you know measures and you go over there and they're like
automatically attracted to like you said you were saying earlier your online presence I've seen that you guys have
done this and I've seen that you guys have done that and uh you wouldn't be doing that kind of stuff if you didn't
care about what you you're doing so that that's why I'm calling you it's not
it's them looking at your reputation being like I want them because I've seen what they
have done already yeah it's almost like um not necessarily
A gimme per se but it definitely helps out when you don't have to work as hard
to earn some business yeah well and it's it's rewarding to have
people call you and want you to work to do their job I mean that's a good feeling when you're
not just bidding it have to be the low guy and you're just one of many it's nice when they call you and they want
they really want you to do the project that's a good feeling and it is that's a huge compliment
that's a huge compliment for for the efforts and the time and the the the
frustration that that you put into it into you to your work is um to be
reckoned it's recognition is really what it is Everyone likes to do yeah and it's it's
hard it's the feeling right it's a feeling of where
the work and the effort and everything you just put into that for the last couple years or the last 10 years
whatever has just been justified by by in that one moment um yeah and I think it's like
um it's rewarding but
it's also more enjoyable to work with those kind of clients for the most I
know we're in this for money but it's also if if I have to give up a little bit of money and if I have the choice to
say I can make more money but be miserable or make it a little less money and be and have some enjoyable work uh
you know not every project is that way uh you're getting some Bond Runners we're in a few right now you know it's
summer we got school work everywhere and craziness going and when when I first
started talking to Daniel I was like hey man what's going on here what's up with you he's like I'm just busy you know I
mean Daniel is busy right now in the office he's kicking out a lot of a lot of stuff he's got a lot of stuff this is
this is PG-13 you can say oh okay but yeah he's getting he's getting a lot
of stuff done there I'm actually in the field this week and trying to find balance she just uh you know a little bit short stats have a pattern match
project come up and I busted out the knee pads and the pouch and got to it I
don't mind it I know why don't we get sore but I don't mind it why'd you do
that why because because we have deadlines and the
clients uh are really counting on us to get this done and the amount of time that they have for the project they
moved everything out you know that they scheduled this was scheduled uh weeks ago and just because my schedule changed
doesn't mean that they're scheduled to change right like your schedule is very important though which means it's very
important to me so sometimes when sometimes when you get thrown a
curveball man you just gotta readjust keep that weight back and sit on it a little bit longer and sit that bad out
and hope for the best we're gonna have to change this podcast to the diamond [Laughter]
that's just really it man you know I I saw the other day about something similar to that
um and it's just in relation to life uh going up to that you got to go up to bat
and you gotta be wearing the swing in order to get some results uh and and that's really what this is
hey this is what it's going to take to make sure that we stay on schedule on task and that the client is is happy
we're not putting them in a bad spot so when you care about the right things they have other
they have sorry you you uh you're you're breaking up a little bit so I jumped in when you broke up sorry but uh
it sounds like to me when you care about the right things you build a reputation around those things so you're you're
probably known for getting your work on time getting getting work done on time for the most part none of us are 100 on that
this is Construction but getting your work done on time doing quality work and being well uh educated
on flooring systems that's the reputation I see you guys have well not only that and I tell people all
the time because inevitably there's going to be an issue right so once that
issue pops up how do you go about resolving and we hear stories all the time about you know we had this issue
and this person just never called us back it's not just like you know we also
deal with some sales people where it's like as soon as the sale's done their their hands off with it and it's
like it's all about how can you take something that doesn't go right and
still communicate like you're trying to earn their business hey sorry it has happened I'll be out there tomorrow and
shifting things around because that's what has to happen in order to keep people happy
yeah well I mean we you guys and I we probably buy from the Reps that have
the reputation and return your call or answering your call right I mean those they have our reps
have a reputation and we're gonna use the ones that fit our business the best
which is timely response they actually care about the problems we're going through as contractors and want to help
help us solve it you know those are uh reputation items for the sales reps that
you probably want to deal with the ones who who uh take care of you that way right and you know some of the Reps that
do come in here and they're like hey why don't you have this on the shelf and it's like this is the first time I've
ever even met you yeah we just we just had that we just had
that happen and we were having this like literally just guys just threw all the books away because we weren't getting
anywhere now there was a couple like issues that we didn't know about that weren't you know public right but at the
same time it's a new rep and we've known her for uh from uh another distributor
and we're just gonna build on that relationship and she's been very spot on
since uh coming into the office well that shows you I mean it's not that's why reputation is not I mean this is a
business concept I I say that a lot in this podcast because we taught Concepts that are transcending Flooring by far
your reputation will impact your business almost as much
as anything else in my opinion you can have aggressive because why do you get
better why do you get why are you able to be low and still make money right on
if you're bidding jobs well we're able to do that because we can get some you know we work really
hard with our vendors and the vendors we deal with like us and that's because of the reputation that they that is is it's
not just the relationship those those people have the reputation we have the reputation of getting the work so they
know they have to give us good pricing or they lose the opportunity uh and in
this day and age of value engineering everything I mean a spec is not set in
stone but there we have their reputation of not switching people out unless absolutely 100 necessary I don't I don't
try to gain a competitive advantage that often if somebody's worked really hard for respect and this is just the way we
approach it I know I'm not saying it's the only way but if somebody else worked
really hard for um for that spec we don't just go in and
switch them out as long as we feel like we're being taken care of you know so that's all like your reputation of doing
that they feel comfortable going you know going going in hard with you on that job you
know on that on those projects so I yeah I mean I just
um talk to a church earlier today where we
I mean technically it's not signed yet but they pretty much gave us a verbal that we're the one that's going to be
doing the work and that is 100 because the communication between us and our rep
and having that and knowing because he was like Hey this other company is
asking for numbers now here's a price break and that's all it takes yeah I'll give
you another example so we're dealing with a project nice sized project and and there's a
particular product I'm not going to mention anything any of the products on about on in this uh short story but
um there's a product on there that the people that I gotta dance around this a little bit
because we're right in the middle of this but uh there's some people uh a
specific product specified and we have the contract for all the other flooring
and because the uh that particular product we couldn't get pricing on and
and then they verbalized a ridiculous price to us uh we just excluded it well
we got awarded the contract for everything else and they never got a price for that other floor
so long story short this company uh sells makes and
and installs their product and uh it's not a well-known company
either but at the end of the day my contractor called me and said hey
they need to contract under you I don't want to deal with anybody else than you have them send you the bid and then you
fold it all fold it into your contract that's that's a relationship
just making sure you're taking care of it that's awesome you know what I mean I don't like I don't like this I don't
like the way this is going yeah so if you got a good uh reputation and relationship with people we've got a
good reputation I mean those types of things happen that other company doesn't have a reputation around here anyway and
so he's like I don't know them I know you and I'd rather fold their contract
under you so anyway those are just some examples
and I know that you know you can get real nitty-gritty on having a good reputation but I would say doing doing
the basics being actually caring about the quality like
you guys have said many times on this podcast Karen about your your clients profit and
that they make money you know and caring about keeping yourself informed and
educated and trained on the flooring systems that are out there that reputation will get that if you went
reputation is really important that sub stack of reputation where you are the industry expert and I I look at you guys
as the industry experts on many things especially as it comes into resilient flooring so you get that reputation and
business comes to you and I I would implore all
um installers that's why we we promote and evangelize training and education
one that you become the expert and you will be sought after yeah and that's happened a lot like um
you know thank you to all of our peers out there right when when even when we were employees of other companies they
would say that's a Jose jobber that's a Daniel job or let's get let's get the Gonzalez Brothers on there or and after
we started prefer to you know a long time ago now uh same thing is hey you
guys I got a project that came across my books and I don't see anybody else being able to do it but you guys are you
interested of course we are we're not interested because you you know I
don't want to say fluffed our feathers with that a little bit right but we're interested because we know it's a
challenging job we don't fear from challenges like that and we also want to make sure that it's
right for you and your client even if it's not a direct sale for us we still want to make sure it's right in the end
um and we pride ourselves on being able to make sure that that happens yeah we ended up
with a project that and this is years ago and I I just love this project right because of the way it happened is
got a phone call and said hey I really I have a problem I have nobody to do this install and what's let me send me a
drawing I was like whoa look at this look at all these shapes and others and exploding
oval and lvt and and it was all handcuffed nothing was
what was uh was cut at the factory water jet or laser cup and
he said we asked three other installers and everybody said that it was impossible
um that was like that was like a big carrot in front of
you you're absolutely right it was and they gave us the numbers and me and Daniel
looked at the numbers and it was like man that's not even close to enough and then
I just told Daniel I said you know what I don't care let's just do it right
it's impossible let's just do it and we did it we got it done and one of
the one of the guys was uh who said it couldn't be done was as a good friend of ours and he was just like I can't
believe you guys got that done how'd you do it right there is an example where they've
given up a little bit of money for for reputation
I just thought it'd make a great a great profile picture foreign
it's one of them Feathering the cat projects
you know what I loved it and looked great I was happy about I was excited
about it when I went when I was done with the the the layout I was excited
about it when my sister was cutting it in I was excited about it when Daniel was cutting it in there was everything
about it it was just it was an exciting project to be a part of what do you guys um get
I'll give you an example uh do you get projects let me finish the
question then I'll give you an example do you get projects that match your
your reputation from a standpoint of your capability whether size a project
or like what you just stated specifically you know difficult projects
uh because you know there's guys that are known for being
able to solve all these problems and do all this stuff but then they're they're stuck in that world of only
like doing the hardest work all the time
example if if uh if I can make this uh come around and make some sense but I
got a um I interviewed we interviewed as a
company this morning for a oh it's probably a 1.4 million dollar flooring
job big job and we had to give
um examples of projects that we've done of that size well we have a reputation
in doing the large projects we do the casinos we do the new hospitals we do the Arenas we do those jobs and that's
why they reached out to us in the first place and now they just want to one um you know uh references sorry I was
escaping me at the moment they wanted some references so we we sent them references and looks like you know it's
just one one other company that's interviewing for this job and we feel pretty doggone
um confident confident we're going to get that that
project we're excited and confident at the same time so so yeah I think we've been on
on that before where it's like uh especially when we were labor only where it's like we're getting these jobs because that's
what we do we do the hard stuff and then sometimes it's like hey guys you know we do carpet tile too right like don't
forget that yeah also do Carver tile yeah that's those are real conversations
like hey we're like we don't mind like we like doing it right where it's helping us become better and and
hindsight thank you for all of that everybody thank you um but we do like we do like easy days
too right we don't yeah and it's just like
and then you just you you appreciate the um I don't want to call them no-brainer
jobs right because it's some people close to them some people don't but
the ones that are just super easy on the body I would say um we do appreciate those ones as well
yeah and then at the same time you know sometimes we're we do get these
jobs were that are super easy and it's like repetitive stuff and it's like man
I just wish I would have something that would challenge me you know at some point yeah I had an installer uh one of our guys he
was on a he doesn't like going out of town he's one of our employee installers doesn't like going out of town although
we have to have him go out of town occasionally uh he doesn't like
um you know he is an expert I mean he's really really good his name's Norby and
he is one of the best resilient installers I know he you know we put him on all this hard
work all the time but there was a project and he also does tile
um but we six by six wall tile all white like
huge game bathrooms on the Air Force base after three weeks and it was right here in town he was like Hey can you put
me on something else for just a little while I am going brain dead working on this thing it's so it's like stacking
white wall tile for eight hours a day you know five six days a week you put me
on something that challenges me I mean he literally wanted something that would give him some creative I think that's
wanting to you know exercise that creative muscled that really good installers have
you gotta you're absolutely right use your brain sometimes right because if you're not engaging it you start losing
stuff and it's like stacking stacking that time just not
doing it yeah I will say this I will say this if if you like to go to
work every day on on a construction site and do the same carpet like just use
carpet tile you want to do carpet out every single day the same stuff and and don't challenge
yourself that to me in my mind and this is just my opinion guys it's no different than working in a factory
right like you're not challenging yourself you're not doing anything you you are doing the same repetition every
day but my ADHD doesn't allow me to do that so
again I need to be there here I need to do this I need to do that oh what's this new thing over there squirrel that's how
I like I just well I think that's kind of the the the way really good
installers are dude I mean for the most part you're gonna get bored if if you're
doing carpet taller even broadly back in the day we didn't have a ton of carpet towel
um when I was really installing daily and you know you get on a big old high
school with a level you know double cut level Loop or something or even if it's straight okay even just a road cut
there's no challenge whatsoever no pattern match three 34 foot drops in a
room you know and you just laying them out yeah you're getting five six hundred yards down a day but
eventually you want something that's like you know I just got off that job that had all those ovals and all that
stuff on it where you you got some uh satisfaction out of the after the
installation at the end of it you stood back it's one of my favorite things even for my cruise that I didn't you
know actually touch and install myself it's like standing back and seeing with
a finished product that's one of the rewarding things that I love about flooring
so I agree with you you gotta challenge yourself you said stand back and I remember
Daniel bringing uh uh where it wasn't it called Daniel your little drones draw the blank drone to
projects and buying them up there to get a bird's eye view of a lot of these uh
projects that we were doing on a large scale and or trying to add people can we
use your lift can we we just need to get 30 feet up there so we could take a picture and appreciate everything that
we're doing right because it looks good on the print but when you're on ground level and you don't see everything yeah
you're right man just uh the feeling of satisfaction when you're complete I'm proud of it it's definitely
different when you're on site than what a set of drawing to show you yeah it's kind of speaks to the talent
of designers to be able to put stuff on paper that ends up looking so pretty when it's all you know good designers so
shout out to the commercial designers out there well this is uh this might be the first
we're actually you know kind of coming up at the uh Midway point where at the Midway point of the of the podcast
um just wanted to talk about a few things coming up
we kind of discussed it beforehand but here in the future uh if you guys are
watching this if you'll comment whether or not the you think this will be valuable we're considering doing like a
series on uh being a Commercial contractor in the AI AIA uh pay
applications Lane releases certified payroll that kind of stuff that goes
into be doing what we do um so if you're a residential company looking to get into commercial we can
and and you uh you'd really be interested in that kind of data it's really two different worlds
from a billing standpoint and collecting money and all that and we'd like to put on a three or four
part series about being a commercial material and labor supplier like even if
even if they're not trying to come from residential and they're already commercial it's a totally different world when you start
you know bidding and having to do all the billing and stuff yourself because you know like we talked about earlier
before this started it's like what do you mean I just invoice you no it has Beyond a pay application and then
you know you got to get it notarized and it's it's a whole deal that if if you
don't know what you're doing you can really mess yourself up yeah where you can just say I I've done
that like send in that uh invoice early on they're like this has to be on the
pay application g702 and g703 I'm like what the hell is that I just sent you an
invoice that's when I first got into business and started doing I was commercial installer but I didn't have
any idea about you know how you go about the the actual procedures are getting
paid with uh you know commercial projects specifically when there's General Contractors and architects
involved so we're considering uh I'd love to do that if it's valuable to the
audience you know comment somewhere oh yeah Eduardo actually asked uh if he's
still able to join via Zoom so he should be getting the emails to be able to join via Zoom because that
would actually be really beneficial to actually have someone that kind of doesn't know what's going on so that way
when we're talking about it they can ask questions and stuff like that yeah join us here I mean we love having
conversations that we we've done it a lot you can join the podcast and ask
questions during it and we we answer them right during the podcast so if that's a valuable one we'll get it on
the books and we'll get you uh you know join us live it's fun to have people on
here it's also great when we have guests and we'll have some guests on that
series uh actual General Contractors come on and talk about their perspective of it
um like that you know but join us live it's it's a it's a hoot and it's fun and
uh we we love the interaction
what'd you say give me someone else to pick out I mean yeah yeah
gotta have fun guys any any closing uh thoughts on uh
techniques on building reputation
I'll start doing doing the doing the good work
I would just say consistency just whatever you're
consistent at is going to be a reflection of you and your business stay consistent right and if something's out
of the ordinary which is going to force you out of your comfort zone and out of that that consistency that you're trying
to create don't be afraid to say I can't I don't
know I know a guy or I'll find out um because that will spin off and and
help you um create that and also like your
reputation you guys like your reputation is inadvertently creating your brand like that is that is
you that's how people are going to remember you how they're going to see you and once you have a recognizable
brand that brand is going to be associated with your reputation right off the bat and vice versa I would say
just understand that just consistent just be consistent yeah it sounds like what you're
consistent what you consistently do is kind of ends up being your reputation
right and Rollin says right here always being straightforward and honest
and yeah that's that's us too right because I'm never gonna go into somewhere and try and sell them
something that I know isn't going to work yeah yeah considering you guys have mentioned
that multiple times about like how much you care about the client getting the right floor for the right condition and
not just getting a cell yeah it's not about the sale
yeah it is kind of it is but it isn't right I would rather not sell them
something that I know is going to fail though and that's part of our reputation is knowing that if they call us we're
not gonna just sell them anything throw it in and then be like oh that's what you wanted so that's what I put in it's
like take a step back hey these are the options because if we go with this
product this is the potential that can happen yeah so I just got through uh Huron the
designers but have you ever ticked a designer off because you called that out
and you're like it's not gonna work in that condition and yeah
I want to say no I want to say no the fact of the matter is
is that early on I I was a little too blunt right I was a
little too honest I I there was a zero thought process
behind my thought and my verbalization of my God no filter no pause if there was
someone took my filter and poked holes in it and he just ran through and um
I was young I will say that I was young and I was trying to build uh I don't want to say a reputation right but I was
trying to I was trying to build a reputation right I wanted to be the guy that someone called when they needed
they needed it done right I wanted to make sure that I was that guy when they needed someone to be honest I wanted to
be that guy and man was I going about it the wrong way they have come off
I may have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the beginning
but later on that their misunderstanding of what I
was trying to do and my misunderstanding of how to approach that turned into
great relationships and um they do call and say hey what do you
think about this or what about the I have business failing here do you know why well
why did you install it there knowing that this about the product well you know what nobody told me that
right
there's plenty of instance
sorry about that there's plenty of instances where the wrong product I put in the area because somebody wanted to
make a sale and frankly I see that on the Facebook groups where like you know installers or Dr will drag a you know
talk about that with the uh sales people just selling stuff that has no right being installed in this area and uh you
know I I feel for those guys because at the end of the day it's like it's your stuff you're putting
in and some I see this more in residential than commercial where it's
like the wrong product in the in at the wrong product application and the uh
you can't say nothing about it or something like yeah I can't go to the homeowner and say
it when the shop sold it you know they won't work for that shop no more you
know so I feel for those guys but maybe talk to the shop I know that's
what it is right it's going back to communication communication is a huge part of everything because even hold
ahead right here he said designers are cool with his decisions most time but he always gives the option and that's what
you you got to do it's like this is
you you don't go to the homeowner and say hey we shouldn't do this you go to the
designer or the sales person to say hey guys this is probably not the best idea and always present that solution this is
what I would do and this is why you know because a lot of the times they're in
that position where they don't know because they've never they're not in the field they don't know
the applications right so it's also educating them so that way in the future maybe they don't make that same choice
what you don't know and you're always going to have the guys that just go for the sale but hopefully
good quality salesmen will learn the lessons that they've you know from the dings when they put the wrong product in
and man if you're a Salesman listen to this please listen to your installers if they're a good installer listen to them
uh you know installers are us right here on this
call we're in we insult we still do sometimes and we know
open your ears and uh you know help the installer out Eduardo he joined us had
his hand raised what's up Eduardo what's up I don't know if you guys can hear me but uh yeah
great communication and the other day I had I heard this summer but it's the hard conversations
like I sat down with my the boss or the president or company and I told him like you know it's my job to sometimes point
out what's wrong and I might piss you off but that's my job like and you know he said he appreciated it because and we
all hold each other accountable and little by little these hard conversations are getting a lot easier but I know we're going to make each
other mad so that's it nice it's always the hard conversations are
the ones that need to be had the most though yes it is it is and and sometimes when
you when you get a when you gotta approach an owner or someone like that you know who's very much involved they
just might not know because no one else wants to bring it to their attention and the same thing with the sales person right like salesperson's got a lot of
installers working for them and nobody said anything they just do it because they're afraid of losing a
potential chance of doing more installs for that person right we're not trying to undermine anyone we just want it to
be the most successful install for not only the the client but the sales person
too um and I think you know I think uh a little plug for CFI here but I think and
uh and also fcic but I think they're on to it when there's education uh classes for our sales teams
so that way they they can get a little bit of a hands-on experience and they can understand some of what the
installers get out of face right but that's another thing too
protect all last week that guy he was talking about you know they have their their more geared towards sales people
too to help out you kept on calling Jerry Jeff I don't I twice guys come on
it was but it was I know you're hilarious the second time you guys hey the audience doesn't get to
see all the the uh shrapnel I take from that in the text messages later thank you
Jose for the the the the uh the the reminder
I'm so sorry dude I just I like to laugh man I just find that stuff the beauty of
it is uh you know it's just like my uh slip up when I was
Rick James in it it happens and it's a beauty of doing live podcasts I believe
someone is saying to me vulnerable and be who we are so yeah but um let's get back to the CFI
and the Hands-On um sales sales teams don't don't be afraid to ask questions like you know
ask your installers hey how are the jobs going can I do anything different is there anything that I need to work on to
to be better for you to make it easier for you because I'll tell you what I don't like working for the people who
make it hard every time where I got to go back and babysit their job I'll be honest man like uh we're bumping heads
and bumping heads pretty soon I'm going to start charging someone for it or I'm gonna have a sit down with their boss and say listen
I'm doing your guy's job and I don't appreciate it I don't get paid for it start sharing those margins or make some
corrections yeah yeah you know uh to that point
I think installers love it when you go up to them and I know ours do when you go up to them like if it's a newer
product even if it's just a different LBT a different manufacturer and you go hey man how is that lvt delay was it
nice and square or was it they want to tell you whether it was
good or and and uh you want to know that as a as the salesperson you want to
know it wasn't good the new product maybe it was really tough to install
good installers don't gripe around about stuff they just get it figured out and get it done uh but ask those questions
that's a good point ask them how was that product to install know that if you're a retailer and you brought in a
new type of SBC or something you know a new laminate or a new uh uh floating lvt
ask your installer what you know how'd that go together for you you know you you'd be surprised what you'll find out
and you can learn some stuff so right Kevin says it would be nice sales people
in the industry had some type of installation background or training and I'll go back to protect on Jerry because
they every time I see one of their trainings there's a sales person in there doing everything that the
installers are doing just to see what it's like because you when some of these
people are bidding stuff that they don't know right they just think that it everything goes in the same and they don't understand that there's
so much you know technique and and stuff behind some of
these products that it's it's not all the same yeah
all right guys well we're gonna wrap it up closing thoughts I will say that
remember that your online reputation plays into your actual reputation and just be cognizant of that and what you
post online and how you interact with other individuals whether it's in Facebook groups or or you know
um on your live feed or whatever I mean people read stuff and uh so just be
careful there remember that you are like uh Jose said earlier you are you end up
being your company's brand in a lot of ways uh especially as the owner but even
as you know a lead installer for a company if you're if your reputation
is counteractive to the company's brand you can get in trouble a little bit there and if you're an employee
installer there could be some issues like really care about your personal uh reputation and it kind of shines through
to your business reputation and that's what I wanted to like really
log on is the amount of satisfaction and just make it's more enjoyable and you
make better money if you got a good reputation and people are reaching out to you because of that
yes yeah everyone sees well you can make stuff private and
stuff but still there's people out there that'll screenshot and share everything so
always be aware of what you're you're putting on online because you know once
you post it it's there forever yep
yeah I mean when you're posting online try not to make up a character just be
yourself because uh when people run into you and you're not that person that you say you are online
it kind of throws them off because I've ran into some of people that I that I follow on the internet and
I don't know who they are you can go ahead and call me out bro you could call me out no no exactly how you
act pretty genuine so that's what matters yeah
all right guys well Eduardo thanks for hopping on Jose and Daniel thank you so
much uh and um we will chat with you guys a little bit later
sounds good all right guys thank you thank you guys for having me
The Huddle - Episode 55 - Building a Strong Reputation
This week the guys discuss building and maintaining a reputation to last.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up my flooring people
welcome to the huddle we come at you every Tuesday at three o'clock P.M
Central sorry I'm over here stuttering uh but we bring you uh thoughts and
ideas on how to maintain forward progress in your flooring career with me as always Daniel and Jose
Gonzalez from Rapids Michigan preferred flooring
guys are uh as as usual Daniel's in the office and Jose is out on the road
so it's it's uh it's proof of their
their um their dedication to the customer and and somewhat of what we're talking about
today about maintaining or building uh quality reputation in the flooring
industry and this really goes across any specialty contractor but um anyway if
you are joining us on any of the socials or on YouTube please consider giving us
comments some likes and subscribes uh I appreciate everybody's comments on
Facebook and and Views and everything preferred floorings uh Facebook page got
blown up last week it was pretty awesome so uh we appreciate all the comments and
and questions so that being said today what do you guys
think is uh building a reputation important I don't think we were we'd be where we
at with where we're at now without building a reputation yeah I mean
it doesn't just apply to business right you got to think about the reputation you have as a student as an employee
um as an athlete like you know every relationship is is based off of a
reputation or the promise of a good reputation so
well I love that you brought that up because it segues right into when you're an installer and when you uh if you're
regardless but particularly uh remember as as companies as people as installers
as as as as um whether you're a foreign contractor or foreign company but installers in
particular remember your online reputation and your reputation so what
you're on Facebook doing and all these things remember that is your business so
getting on uh you know Facebook and and just got to be cognizant of what you put
on social media people will judge you from that uh it may not even be a good depiction of who you are or what you're
capable of doing or or the person you are but you really want to be uh very
cognizant of the fact that what is going on these screens people find later and it may not shine a
great light on you and harm your reputation um I've seen a lot of that in the
installation community and um you know if you come off
on on social as a complainer constantly well
it's very possible that a potential uh partner in in business is going to see
that and uh judge you accordingly to that without knowing you really so just
a cautionary tell I know it's happened I know that when we hire people uh and
even when we hire subcontractors or partner with subcontractors you know we
utilize go career to to do that on the subs but we check social media and all
that too we want to know what kind of people we're dealing with and um so keep
that in mind when you're online what about when you're dealing with your clients and you you know run across let
me ask you let me actually pose it as a question when you guys run across you know
complicated or difficult scenarios with your with a customer on a project
is reputation on the front of your mind top of mind when you're dealing with
them for me the answer is
not always it all depends on the scenario
my first priority is to make sure that I'm doing my best to solve a problem
remember well that I can't solve anything um no I was just going to say that that
plays into your reputation as I see you guys as problem solvers
yeah yeah and that's that's where I think that that's my that is my
priority all the time is make sure that I'm doing my best to solve um
problems and issues or to be proactive and making sure that we're preventing
any future issues and NASA and that does create
uh I guess it does create that in a sense but that's always the first I never worry about like oh I I hope that
they think I'm professional I hope that they think uh that we did a good job it's just
I'm going to be professional and I'm going to do the best job I can and if that is going to
in return build a reputation then that reputation is organic off of workmanship
off of Pride off of uh just everything that we put into it
that I put into it um that that's called authenticity
I mean you get your reputation from being you really are and doing it all the time
it's hard to maintain that phony reputation it's pretty easy it's just the hardest a genuine reputation if you
if you try yes yes that's the hardest
I've seen people try it though I've seen people do it they're always somebody different in front of me than they are
in front of their client and uh or or other inconsistent in general there's uh
someone that we just met for the first time like what two years ago that said that they're the ones that taught us how
to do flooring yeah stuff like that laughable that's
laughable but you know we have this concept at the company at the flooring
company that is um we kind of weigh
we call it the skills of justice but there's three scales and it's reputation
relationships and money and you can't give up
none of the scales can tip all the way down and just crash and burn
um you know so sometimes you got to give up a little bit of money to to maintain
a relationship or a rep your reputation as as a as a business
um that's just you know we we I preach that a lot in our so does our rco that
hey guys money is important that's why we're all in this but at the same time it's part of the the
equation when you're trying to maintain a relationship with a client or maintain
your reputation in the market I actually just ran into the scenario
with our buddy Bob for their life he got put between a
rock and a hard spot on a project and trying to chase money and I just said
look we'll figure it out it'll come out in the wash one way or another let's just figure it out so I changed
the the way we were going to build it because we were fine financially with
that and then it ended up not being as much as he anticipated right because I changed the
format which we were building it and and uh then you know the next day he's
like you know what just build the whole thing we'll just take care and I I was like are you sure like I you
need to make money too dude like I want to make sure that you guys are making money right we'll figure it out like we
have a good working relationship I know that over the next 12 months six months 18 months we'll get it figured out and
it'll all come back I'm not worried about it he was like no let's just do it all right
okay with it it's interesting I've heard you say that you and Daniel uh say stuff like that
where you've built that relationship with somebody and you got the reputation with
them that that um you know it'll you'll treat them fair and and it'll work out in the end and uh
that you want them to make money that's the piece that I I hear you you care
about your client your customer and making money as well yeah yeah you you it's um
they're not in the position to hire us to make money right right that's what
business is all about is making money so that's where Partnerships come in right we're part of the team this is a
partnership we're dancing we're dancing sometimes we take the lead sometimes they take the lead sometimes
somebody that we don't know takes a lead and we just follow it it's just a big dance as long as at the end of at the
end of the shindig we're all happy we can all sit back and and laugh about that that journey and joke around then
then we're winning we won so when do you do does your relay does
your reputation uh I mean it brings you work I know that for a fact so does it
bring you the high quality work you guys desire I mean does it does it help in that manner as well
I think your reputation like um I've been
lately a couple you know measures and you go over there and they're like
automatically attracted to like you said you were saying earlier your online presence I've seen that you guys have
done this and I've seen that you guys have done that and uh you wouldn't be doing that kind of stuff if you didn't
care about what you you're doing so that that's why I'm calling you it's not
it's them looking at your reputation being like I want them because I've seen what they
have done already yeah it's almost like um not necessarily
A gimme per se but it definitely helps out when you don't have to work as hard
to earn some business yeah well and it's it's rewarding to have
people call you and want you to work to do their job I mean that's a good feeling when you're
not just bidding it have to be the low guy and you're just one of many it's nice when they call you and they want
they really want you to do the project that's a good feeling and it is that's a huge compliment
that's a huge compliment for for the efforts and the time and the the the
frustration that that you put into it into you to your work is um to be
reckoned it's recognition is really what it is Everyone likes to do yeah and it's it's
hard it's the feeling right it's a feeling of where
the work and the effort and everything you just put into that for the last couple years or the last 10 years
whatever has just been justified by by in that one moment um yeah and I think it's like
um it's rewarding but
it's also more enjoyable to work with those kind of clients for the most I
know we're in this for money but it's also if if I have to give up a little bit of money and if I have the choice to
say I can make more money but be miserable or make it a little less money and be and have some enjoyable work uh
you know not every project is that way uh you're getting some Bond Runners we're in a few right now you know it's
summer we got school work everywhere and craziness going and when when I first
started talking to Daniel I was like hey man what's going on here what's up with you he's like I'm just busy you know I
mean Daniel is busy right now in the office he's kicking out a lot of a lot of stuff he's got a lot of stuff this is
this is PG-13 you can say oh okay but yeah he's getting he's getting a lot
of stuff done there I'm actually in the field this week and trying to find balance she just uh you know a little bit short stats have a pattern match
project come up and I busted out the knee pads and the pouch and got to it I
don't mind it I know why don't we get sore but I don't mind it why'd you do
that why because because we have deadlines and the
clients uh are really counting on us to get this done and the amount of time that they have for the project they
moved everything out you know that they scheduled this was scheduled uh weeks ago and just because my schedule changed
doesn't mean that they're scheduled to change right like your schedule is very important though which means it's very
important to me so sometimes when sometimes when you get thrown a
curveball man you just gotta readjust keep that weight back and sit on it a little bit longer and sit that bad out
and hope for the best we're gonna have to change this podcast to the diamond [Laughter]
that's just really it man you know I I saw the other day about something similar to that
um and it's just in relation to life uh going up to that you got to go up to bat
and you gotta be wearing the swing in order to get some results uh and and that's really what this is
hey this is what it's going to take to make sure that we stay on schedule on task and that the client is is happy
we're not putting them in a bad spot so when you care about the right things they have other
they have sorry you you uh you're you're breaking up a little bit so I jumped in when you broke up sorry but uh
it sounds like to me when you care about the right things you build a reputation around those things so you're you're
probably known for getting your work on time getting getting work done on time for the most part none of us are 100 on that
this is Construction but getting your work done on time doing quality work and being well uh educated
on flooring systems that's the reputation I see you guys have well not only that and I tell people all
the time because inevitably there's going to be an issue right so once that
issue pops up how do you go about resolving and we hear stories all the time about you know we had this issue
and this person just never called us back it's not just like you know we also
deal with some sales people where it's like as soon as the sale's done their their hands off with it and it's
like it's all about how can you take something that doesn't go right and
still communicate like you're trying to earn their business hey sorry it has happened I'll be out there tomorrow and
shifting things around because that's what has to happen in order to keep people happy
yeah well I mean we you guys and I we probably buy from the Reps that have
the reputation and return your call or answering your call right I mean those they have our reps
have a reputation and we're gonna use the ones that fit our business the best
which is timely response they actually care about the problems we're going through as contractors and want to help
help us solve it you know those are uh reputation items for the sales reps that
you probably want to deal with the ones who who uh take care of you that way right and you know some of the Reps that
do come in here and they're like hey why don't you have this on the shelf and it's like this is the first time I've
ever even met you yeah we just we just had that we just had
that happen and we were having this like literally just guys just threw all the books away because we weren't getting
anywhere now there was a couple like issues that we didn't know about that weren't you know public right but at the
same time it's a new rep and we've known her for uh from uh another distributor
and we're just gonna build on that relationship and she's been very spot on
since uh coming into the office well that shows you I mean it's not that's why reputation is not I mean this is a
business concept I I say that a lot in this podcast because we taught Concepts that are transcending Flooring by far
your reputation will impact your business almost as much
as anything else in my opinion you can have aggressive because why do you get
better why do you get why are you able to be low and still make money right on
if you're bidding jobs well we're able to do that because we can get some you know we work really
hard with our vendors and the vendors we deal with like us and that's because of the reputation that they that is is it's
not just the relationship those those people have the reputation we have the reputation of getting the work so they
know they have to give us good pricing or they lose the opportunity uh and in
this day and age of value engineering everything I mean a spec is not set in
stone but there we have their reputation of not switching people out unless absolutely 100 necessary I don't I don't
try to gain a competitive advantage that often if somebody's worked really hard for respect and this is just the way we
approach it I know I'm not saying it's the only way but if somebody else worked
really hard for um for that spec we don't just go in and
switch them out as long as we feel like we're being taken care of you know so that's all like your reputation of doing
that they feel comfortable going you know going going in hard with you on that job you
know on that on those projects so I yeah I mean I just
um talk to a church earlier today where we
I mean technically it's not signed yet but they pretty much gave us a verbal that we're the one that's going to be
doing the work and that is 100 because the communication between us and our rep
and having that and knowing because he was like Hey this other company is
asking for numbers now here's a price break and that's all it takes yeah I'll give
you another example so we're dealing with a project nice sized project and and there's a
particular product I'm not going to mention anything any of the products on about on in this uh short story but
um there's a product on there that the people that I gotta dance around this a little bit
because we're right in the middle of this but uh there's some people uh a
specific product specified and we have the contract for all the other flooring
and because the uh that particular product we couldn't get pricing on and
and then they verbalized a ridiculous price to us uh we just excluded it well
we got awarded the contract for everything else and they never got a price for that other floor
so long story short this company uh sells makes and
and installs their product and uh it's not a well-known company
either but at the end of the day my contractor called me and said hey
they need to contract under you I don't want to deal with anybody else than you have them send you the bid and then you
fold it all fold it into your contract that's that's a relationship
just making sure you're taking care of it that's awesome you know what I mean I don't like I don't like this I don't
like the way this is going yeah so if you got a good uh reputation and relationship with people we've got a
good reputation I mean those types of things happen that other company doesn't have a reputation around here anyway and
so he's like I don't know them I know you and I'd rather fold their contract
under you so anyway those are just some examples
and I know that you know you can get real nitty-gritty on having a good reputation but I would say doing doing
the basics being actually caring about the quality like
you guys have said many times on this podcast Karen about your your clients profit and
that they make money you know and caring about keeping yourself informed and
educated and trained on the flooring systems that are out there that reputation will get that if you went
reputation is really important that sub stack of reputation where you are the industry expert and I I look at you guys
as the industry experts on many things especially as it comes into resilient flooring so you get that reputation and
business comes to you and I I would implore all
um installers that's why we we promote and evangelize training and education
one that you become the expert and you will be sought after yeah and that's happened a lot like um
you know thank you to all of our peers out there right when when even when we were employees of other companies they
would say that's a Jose jobber that's a Daniel job or let's get let's get the Gonzalez Brothers on there or and after
we started prefer to you know a long time ago now uh same thing is hey you
guys I got a project that came across my books and I don't see anybody else being able to do it but you guys are you
interested of course we are we're not interested because you you know I
don't want to say fluffed our feathers with that a little bit right but we're interested because we know it's a
challenging job we don't fear from challenges like that and we also want to make sure that it's
right for you and your client even if it's not a direct sale for us we still want to make sure it's right in the end
um and we pride ourselves on being able to make sure that that happens yeah we ended up
with a project that and this is years ago and I I just love this project right because of the way it happened is
got a phone call and said hey I really I have a problem I have nobody to do this install and what's let me send me a
drawing I was like whoa look at this look at all these shapes and others and exploding
oval and lvt and and it was all handcuffed nothing was
what was uh was cut at the factory water jet or laser cup and
he said we asked three other installers and everybody said that it was impossible
um that was like that was like a big carrot in front of
you you're absolutely right it was and they gave us the numbers and me and Daniel
looked at the numbers and it was like man that's not even close to enough and then
I just told Daniel I said you know what I don't care let's just do it right
it's impossible let's just do it and we did it we got it done and one of
the one of the guys was uh who said it couldn't be done was as a good friend of ours and he was just like I can't
believe you guys got that done how'd you do it right there is an example where they've
given up a little bit of money for for reputation
I just thought it'd make a great a great profile picture foreign
it's one of them Feathering the cat projects
you know what I loved it and looked great I was happy about I was excited
about it when I went when I was done with the the the layout I was excited
about it when my sister was cutting it in I was excited about it when Daniel was cutting it in there was everything
about it it was just it was an exciting project to be a part of what do you guys um get
I'll give you an example uh do you get projects let me finish the
question then I'll give you an example do you get projects that match your
your reputation from a standpoint of your capability whether size a project
or like what you just stated specifically you know difficult projects
uh because you know there's guys that are known for being
able to solve all these problems and do all this stuff but then they're they're stuck in that world of only
like doing the hardest work all the time
example if if uh if I can make this uh come around and make some sense but I
got a um I interviewed we interviewed as a
company this morning for a oh it's probably a 1.4 million dollar flooring
job big job and we had to give
um examples of projects that we've done of that size well we have a reputation
in doing the large projects we do the casinos we do the new hospitals we do the Arenas we do those jobs and that's
why they reached out to us in the first place and now they just want to one um you know uh references sorry I was
escaping me at the moment they wanted some references so we we sent them references and looks like you know it's
just one one other company that's interviewing for this job and we feel pretty doggone
um confident confident we're going to get that that
project we're excited and confident at the same time so so yeah I think we've been on
on that before where it's like uh especially when we were labor only where it's like we're getting these jobs because that's
what we do we do the hard stuff and then sometimes it's like hey guys you know we do carpet tile too right like don't
forget that yeah also do Carver tile yeah that's those are real conversations
like hey we're like we don't mind like we like doing it right where it's helping us become better and and
hindsight thank you for all of that everybody thank you um but we do like we do like easy days
too right we don't yeah and it's just like
and then you just you you appreciate the um I don't want to call them no-brainer
jobs right because it's some people close to them some people don't but
the ones that are just super easy on the body I would say um we do appreciate those ones as well
yeah and then at the same time you know sometimes we're we do get these
jobs were that are super easy and it's like repetitive stuff and it's like man
I just wish I would have something that would challenge me you know at some point yeah I had an installer uh one of our guys he
was on a he doesn't like going out of town he's one of our employee installers doesn't like going out of town although
we have to have him go out of town occasionally uh he doesn't like
um you know he is an expert I mean he's really really good his name's Norby and
he is one of the best resilient installers I know he you know we put him on all this hard
work all the time but there was a project and he also does tile
um but we six by six wall tile all white like
huge game bathrooms on the Air Force base after three weeks and it was right here in town he was like Hey can you put
me on something else for just a little while I am going brain dead working on this thing it's so it's like stacking
white wall tile for eight hours a day you know five six days a week you put me
on something that challenges me I mean he literally wanted something that would give him some creative I think that's
wanting to you know exercise that creative muscled that really good installers have
you gotta you're absolutely right use your brain sometimes right because if you're not engaging it you start losing
stuff and it's like stacking stacking that time just not
doing it yeah I will say this I will say this if if you like to go to
work every day on on a construction site and do the same carpet like just use
carpet tile you want to do carpet out every single day the same stuff and and don't challenge
yourself that to me in my mind and this is just my opinion guys it's no different than working in a factory
right like you're not challenging yourself you're not doing anything you you are doing the same repetition every
day but my ADHD doesn't allow me to do that so
again I need to be there here I need to do this I need to do that oh what's this new thing over there squirrel that's how
I like I just well I think that's kind of the the the way really good
installers are dude I mean for the most part you're gonna get bored if if you're
doing carpet taller even broadly back in the day we didn't have a ton of carpet towel
um when I was really installing daily and you know you get on a big old high
school with a level you know double cut level Loop or something or even if it's straight okay even just a road cut
there's no challenge whatsoever no pattern match three 34 foot drops in a
room you know and you just laying them out yeah you're getting five six hundred yards down a day but
eventually you want something that's like you know I just got off that job that had all those ovals and all that
stuff on it where you you got some uh satisfaction out of the after the
installation at the end of it you stood back it's one of my favorite things even for my cruise that I didn't you
know actually touch and install myself it's like standing back and seeing with
a finished product that's one of the rewarding things that I love about flooring
so I agree with you you gotta challenge yourself you said stand back and I remember
Daniel bringing uh uh where it wasn't it called Daniel your little drones draw the blank drone to
projects and buying them up there to get a bird's eye view of a lot of these uh
projects that we were doing on a large scale and or trying to add people can we
use your lift can we we just need to get 30 feet up there so we could take a picture and appreciate everything that
we're doing right because it looks good on the print but when you're on ground level and you don't see everything yeah
you're right man just uh the feeling of satisfaction when you're complete I'm proud of it it's definitely
different when you're on site than what a set of drawing to show you yeah it's kind of speaks to the talent
of designers to be able to put stuff on paper that ends up looking so pretty when it's all you know good designers so
shout out to the commercial designers out there well this is uh this might be the first
we're actually you know kind of coming up at the uh Midway point where at the Midway point of the of the podcast
um just wanted to talk about a few things coming up
we kind of discussed it beforehand but here in the future uh if you guys are
watching this if you'll comment whether or not the you think this will be valuable we're considering doing like a
series on uh being a Commercial contractor in the AI AIA uh pay
applications Lane releases certified payroll that kind of stuff that goes
into be doing what we do um so if you're a residential company looking to get into commercial we can
and and you uh you'd really be interested in that kind of data it's really two different worlds
from a billing standpoint and collecting money and all that and we'd like to put on a three or four
part series about being a commercial material and labor supplier like even if
even if they're not trying to come from residential and they're already commercial it's a totally different world when you start
you know bidding and having to do all the billing and stuff yourself because you know like we talked about earlier
before this started it's like what do you mean I just invoice you no it has Beyond a pay application and then
you know you got to get it notarized and it's it's a whole deal that if if you
don't know what you're doing you can really mess yourself up yeah where you can just say I I've done
that like send in that uh invoice early on they're like this has to be on the
pay application g702 and g703 I'm like what the hell is that I just sent you an
invoice that's when I first got into business and started doing I was commercial installer but I didn't have
any idea about you know how you go about the the actual procedures are getting
paid with uh you know commercial projects specifically when there's General Contractors and architects
involved so we're considering uh I'd love to do that if it's valuable to the
audience you know comment somewhere oh yeah Eduardo actually asked uh if he's
still able to join via Zoom so he should be getting the emails to be able to join via Zoom because that
would actually be really beneficial to actually have someone that kind of doesn't know what's going on so that way
when we're talking about it they can ask questions and stuff like that yeah join us here I mean we love having
conversations that we we've done it a lot you can join the podcast and ask
questions during it and we we answer them right during the podcast so if that's a valuable one we'll get it on
the books and we'll get you uh you know join us live it's fun to have people on
here it's also great when we have guests and we'll have some guests on that
series uh actual General Contractors come on and talk about their perspective of it
um like that you know but join us live it's it's a it's a hoot and it's fun and
uh we we love the interaction
what'd you say give me someone else to pick out I mean yeah yeah
gotta have fun guys any any closing uh thoughts on uh
techniques on building reputation
I'll start doing doing the doing the good work
I would just say consistency just whatever you're
consistent at is going to be a reflection of you and your business stay consistent right and if something's out
of the ordinary which is going to force you out of your comfort zone and out of that that consistency that you're trying
to create don't be afraid to say I can't I don't
know I know a guy or I'll find out um because that will spin off and and
help you um create that and also like your
reputation you guys like your reputation is inadvertently creating your brand like that is that is
you that's how people are going to remember you how they're going to see you and once you have a recognizable
brand that brand is going to be associated with your reputation right off the bat and vice versa I would say
just understand that just consistent just be consistent yeah it sounds like what you're
consistent what you consistently do is kind of ends up being your reputation
right and Rollin says right here always being straightforward and honest
and yeah that's that's us too right because I'm never gonna go into somewhere and try and sell them
something that I know isn't going to work yeah yeah considering you guys have mentioned
that multiple times about like how much you care about the client getting the right floor for the right condition and
not just getting a cell yeah it's not about the sale
yeah it is kind of it is but it isn't right I would rather not sell them
something that I know is going to fail though and that's part of our reputation is knowing that if they call us we're
not gonna just sell them anything throw it in and then be like oh that's what you wanted so that's what I put in it's
like take a step back hey these are the options because if we go with this
product this is the potential that can happen yeah so I just got through uh Huron the
designers but have you ever ticked a designer off because you called that out
and you're like it's not gonna work in that condition and yeah
I want to say no I want to say no the fact of the matter is
is that early on I I was a little too blunt right I was a
little too honest I I there was a zero thought process
behind my thought and my verbalization of my God no filter no pause if there was
someone took my filter and poked holes in it and he just ran through and um
I was young I will say that I was young and I was trying to build uh I don't want to say a reputation right but I was
trying to I was trying to build a reputation right I wanted to be the guy that someone called when they needed
they needed it done right I wanted to make sure that I was that guy when they needed someone to be honest I wanted to
be that guy and man was I going about it the wrong way they have come off
I may have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the beginning
but later on that their misunderstanding of what I
was trying to do and my misunderstanding of how to approach that turned into
great relationships and um they do call and say hey what do you
think about this or what about the I have business failing here do you know why well
why did you install it there knowing that this about the product well you know what nobody told me that
right
there's plenty of instance
sorry about that there's plenty of instances where the wrong product I put in the area because somebody wanted to
make a sale and frankly I see that on the Facebook groups where like you know installers or Dr will drag a you know
talk about that with the uh sales people just selling stuff that has no right being installed in this area and uh you
know I I feel for those guys because at the end of the day it's like it's your stuff you're putting
in and some I see this more in residential than commercial where it's
like the wrong product in the in at the wrong product application and the uh
you can't say nothing about it or something like yeah I can't go to the homeowner and say
it when the shop sold it you know they won't work for that shop no more you
know so I feel for those guys but maybe talk to the shop I know that's
what it is right it's going back to communication communication is a huge part of everything because even hold
ahead right here he said designers are cool with his decisions most time but he always gives the option and that's what
you you got to do it's like this is
you you don't go to the homeowner and say hey we shouldn't do this you go to the
designer or the sales person to say hey guys this is probably not the best idea and always present that solution this is
what I would do and this is why you know because a lot of the times they're in
that position where they don't know because they've never they're not in the field they don't know
the applications right so it's also educating them so that way in the future maybe they don't make that same choice
what you don't know and you're always going to have the guys that just go for the sale but hopefully
good quality salesmen will learn the lessons that they've you know from the dings when they put the wrong product in
and man if you're a Salesman listen to this please listen to your installers if they're a good installer listen to them
uh you know installers are us right here on this
call we're in we insult we still do sometimes and we know
open your ears and uh you know help the installer out Eduardo he joined us had
his hand raised what's up Eduardo what's up I don't know if you guys can hear me but uh yeah
great communication and the other day I had I heard this summer but it's the hard conversations
like I sat down with my the boss or the president or company and I told him like you know it's my job to sometimes point
out what's wrong and I might piss you off but that's my job like and you know he said he appreciated it because and we
all hold each other accountable and little by little these hard conversations are getting a lot easier but I know we're going to make each
other mad so that's it nice it's always the hard conversations are
the ones that need to be had the most though yes it is it is and and sometimes when
you when you get a when you gotta approach an owner or someone like that you know who's very much involved they
just might not know because no one else wants to bring it to their attention and the same thing with the sales person right like salesperson's got a lot of
installers working for them and nobody said anything they just do it because they're afraid of losing a
potential chance of doing more installs for that person right we're not trying to undermine anyone we just want it to
be the most successful install for not only the the client but the sales person
too um and I think you know I think uh a little plug for CFI here but I think and
uh and also fcic but I think they're on to it when there's education uh classes for our sales teams
so that way they they can get a little bit of a hands-on experience and they can understand some of what the
installers get out of face right but that's another thing too
protect all last week that guy he was talking about you know they have their their more geared towards sales people
too to help out you kept on calling Jerry Jeff I don't I twice guys come on
it was but it was I know you're hilarious the second time you guys hey the audience doesn't get to
see all the the uh shrapnel I take from that in the text messages later thank you
Jose for the the the the uh the the reminder
I'm so sorry dude I just I like to laugh man I just find that stuff the beauty of
it is uh you know it's just like my uh slip up when I was
Rick James in it it happens and it's a beauty of doing live podcasts I believe
someone is saying to me vulnerable and be who we are so yeah but um let's get back to the CFI
and the Hands-On um sales sales teams don't don't be afraid to ask questions like you know
ask your installers hey how are the jobs going can I do anything different is there anything that I need to work on to
to be better for you to make it easier for you because I'll tell you what I don't like working for the people who
make it hard every time where I got to go back and babysit their job I'll be honest man like uh we're bumping heads
and bumping heads pretty soon I'm going to start charging someone for it or I'm gonna have a sit down with their boss and say listen
I'm doing your guy's job and I don't appreciate it I don't get paid for it start sharing those margins or make some
corrections yeah yeah you know uh to that point
I think installers love it when you go up to them and I know ours do when you go up to them like if it's a newer
product even if it's just a different LBT a different manufacturer and you go hey man how is that lvt delay was it
nice and square or was it they want to tell you whether it was
good or and and uh you want to know that as a as the salesperson you want to
know it wasn't good the new product maybe it was really tough to install
good installers don't gripe around about stuff they just get it figured out and get it done uh but ask those questions
that's a good point ask them how was that product to install know that if you're a retailer and you brought in a
new type of SBC or something you know a new laminate or a new uh uh floating lvt
ask your installer what you know how'd that go together for you you know you you'd be surprised what you'll find out
and you can learn some stuff so right Kevin says it would be nice sales people
in the industry had some type of installation background or training and I'll go back to protect on Jerry because
they every time I see one of their trainings there's a sales person in there doing everything that the
installers are doing just to see what it's like because you when some of these
people are bidding stuff that they don't know right they just think that it everything goes in the same and they don't understand that there's
so much you know technique and and stuff behind some of
these products that it's it's not all the same yeah
all right guys well we're gonna wrap it up closing thoughts I will say that
remember that your online reputation plays into your actual reputation and just be cognizant of that and what you
post online and how you interact with other individuals whether it's in Facebook groups or or you know
um on your live feed or whatever I mean people read stuff and uh so just be
careful there remember that you are like uh Jose said earlier you are you end up
being your company's brand in a lot of ways uh especially as the owner but even
as you know a lead installer for a company if you're if your reputation
is counteractive to the company's brand you can get in trouble a little bit there and if you're an employee
installer there could be some issues like really care about your personal uh reputation and it kind of shines through
to your business reputation and that's what I wanted to like really
log on is the amount of satisfaction and just make it's more enjoyable and you
make better money if you got a good reputation and people are reaching out to you because of that
yes yeah everyone sees well you can make stuff private and
stuff but still there's people out there that'll screenshot and share everything so
always be aware of what you're you're putting on online because you know once
you post it it's there forever yep
yeah I mean when you're posting online try not to make up a character just be
yourself because uh when people run into you and you're not that person that you say you are online
it kind of throws them off because I've ran into some of people that I that I follow on the internet and
I don't know who they are you can go ahead and call me out bro you could call me out no no exactly how you
act pretty genuine so that's what matters yeah
all right guys well Eduardo thanks for hopping on Jose and Daniel thank you so
much uh and um we will chat with you guys a little bit later
sounds good all right guys thank you thank you guys for having me
The Huddle - Episode 54 - Uniting the Industry
This week the guys had special guests Beth Miller, Sonny Callaham, and Jerry Lee to talk about training, trade shows, and uniting the industry.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up floor and family welcome to
the huddle we come at you every Tuesday at 3 P.M Central to discuss maintaining
Ford progress in your flooring career with me today as always is Daniel and
Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring up in Michigan we got some special guests today we got Jerry Lee Sonny Callahan
and Beth Miller I'll let you guys go through and do a brief introduction here you want to start us off there Jerry
yeah I appreciate you guys having me so my name is Jerry Lee I work with protect all commercial flooring been in the
industry for 22 years not only worked with vinyl flooring but also some resinous and Port floors also but uh
very good very glad to be a part of this today thanks for having me awesome thanks for being here Beth
hey everybody I'm Beth Miller with FCI magazine I'm the managing editor and I
get to spend every day talking to you lovely people so it's kind of nice to actually be on the other end of the game
well welcome aboard glad to have you nice Sunny yeah hey everybody appreciate you
having me on Paul Sonny Callahan um the founder of Divergent adhesives but also
more importantly the founder of nafct along with Paul pleshack and uh we're here to talk about how we can educate
everybody in the industry and pull us all together so I appreciate you having us awesome well welcome aboard
uh so today's uh topic is uniting the flooring industry and we were talking
offline here just a moment ago about how that that could probably be a be a
four-hour podcast because there's so many uh different uh Realms in the
flooring to unite but in general I the the topic is aimed at
for me I see the biggest divide being we go to say a show and you see all these
beautiful flooring products there and everybody's doing it on and I've taken a
few people to their first show at coverings or something like that they get pretty big-eyed didn't understand
the flooring industry was as big as it is uh and then I always point out like all
that pretty stuff doesn't matter if you don't have somebody who's going to put it in professionally like it just
doesn't matter it it you'll take this beautiful product and make it look like you know make it look like hell for lack
of a better word so you know the biggest divide I see is manufacturers make stuff
Distributors distribute stuff the flooring companies buy it and they
need labor but there's there's been over the last oh I I don't know I guess it
could be up for argument's sake at least a decade or two where uh the flooring installation Community
kind of falling from Grace from a qualities perspective uh I asked a
question many times and I could pose it to this panel but if you either know people that installed back in the 40s
and 50s or um did it yourself I often ask a
question was the installation quality the craftsmanship better than or now just as a whole and it was it's hands
down I mean we know the answer it's kind of rhetorical but they were so well trained and most were employee
installers at a flooring company of some sort and today those Dynamics have changed it's split the industry a bit
and uh so that's what we're here to talk about it has a long introduction Let's Get It On
no so what do you guys think of uh from a training aspect I mean we don't have a
flooring College uh we're just kind of now getting a very introductory level
course that's been kind of um inserted into different community colleges what do you guys think of these
approaches no I think it's great uh if you guys
don't mind me I'll go first I I think it's great uh you know I'm looking at this panel I'm thinking about all the
people who are listening chances are I've met you through an association right so get involved with the group
that's closest to your uh your goals and Ambitions in the industry right so you
know most of you guys are through fcica I've met you CFI and other groups like that but being able to take the time and
and it's not even the training for me it's the networking get to get to know the people that if you do have a problem
on a job site you know who to call right it's the you know it's if you don't know the answer you know the person to call
to get the answer and I think a lot of people misunderstand what training is at that point
um they think well okay I got this certification I should make twice as much as what I'm paying that doesn't
necessarily equate to the same thing right it's the ease of making your job better
yeah good points I think training is because of the
siled nature of it uh in our industry I think the advice you just gave of
finding the association the closest fits your I don't know your skill set whether
it's tile or carpet or whatever there's an organization for each one and then getting involved is the key as
installers if you're an independent installer you are your company you are a
company and you you getting involved is a big
piece of I think healing the industry in a lot of ways um but anyway yeah great points honey
how about you uh Jeff Jerry
well I'm thinking it was me because I didn't see a Jeff on the call but um you know that training's been a um a
difficult Dynamic for us uh one is you know there's a lot of times that we set up and host classes and you know we
arrive to do a two-day session and you know installers get called out to the job so then are we getting the right
people into those and you know I get it everybody's busy and you know due to labor shortages so we've done some
things to try to accommodate uh just to you know beyond deposits and things like that but really to to make it intriguing
and uh you know to get the right people in but you know for us it's a training isn't one session it's uh it's follow-up
six months later touching you know welding again and uh some of the the more detailed items just to make sure
that it's stuck after that two-day class so it's uh you know we've expanded our training force in the last year just
just so we can make those extra touches and keep expanding on it and you know we just did a contractor focus group and
when we do get those groups together to try to bring in other resources to talk about adhesive and prep and some of
those types of things so training is one of the most important things that we do and uh you know we're continuing to
think of creative ways especially after the pandemic when people didn't want us to you know we couldn't be face to face
so we started some virtual sessions but now getting back to that face to face but expanding on all those so we can
just continue to keep that knowledge going and uh we're still looking for good ways to make sure that you know the
classes are attended when we get there and uh we don't have the the best answer yet but
um continuing to kind of dive into those topics with my group and uh come up with better ways
when you do the your guys's training do you guys train on
um the floor prep side of things ahead of or is it pretty focused on it's it's pretty detailed on protect
all um we're starting to get into more of the floor prep but one of the the other
uh suggestions that we've had from some of the people on my team is when we do one of those we have somebody from a
tool manufacturer come in we have somebody from a crap manufacturer come in just to
to try to make the best of that and bring that extra knowledge to those groups and we've had some success with
it it's still not where we want it to be but we're making efforts around that so it's but then you're always up against
the the time Factor because now you're bringing in you know it's full two days could roll into three
but we're trying to do that in a condensed fashion just to to uh offer that extra bit of knowledge Beyond just
the protect all side yeah that's United that's that's a form of uniting is and I know Sonny you do
this a lot with the NFA NF uh CT is naft sorry uh Jeff's with us and he'll he'll
he'll back me up on that one the is uniting these different uh
manufacturers to because everybody's products got to play together right and
figure out how that works um and sometimes you just don't know so
it's it's great for those trainings to be um together but
absolutely outside of training how how you know I know it's the one time we can
all get together and that seems like uniting but how do we unite the industry overall to uh really back the training
entities um in a meaningful way I know there's some successes out there and some of you guys
can speak on this better than myself but I thought I'd pose the question you know how how is the manufacturing I
know they're you know um involved with the fcef and and
um a lot of the other associations but still seems to me like training is still like put on the back burner for stuff
and it just it blows my mind I'm an old installer so like I installed protect all I've been installed a lot of sheet
goods and resilient products where kind of I lived and it just still seems like
uh it's the for it still seems to be forgotten a bit I don't know yeah for me
I think it starts with the manufacturers right these manufacturers starting to bring just what well like what Jerry
said they're starting to bring more people in and start training again well if you have one person training this way
and another person training the other way you've got to make sure they're teaching the best practices right so what we've
done is we've created the curriculum so that the technical department can have the curriculum to standardize what
all these different companies are teaching but we also allow them to be product
specific so we've all been to Association presentations and we're talking about the self leveler the
patching compound the this where the manufacturers can teach the correct curriculum or at least a
standardized curriculum and then plug in their product you get sales and
marketing and you get technical well guess who gets the money sales and marketing gets the money right so if we
can combine the two together we've seen a lot of success with having people go through the class and and just
standardize it but again I think having a manufacturer involved is key to success
well Beth you talk to manufacturers a lot what's the does installation come up
uh all uh thumbs up if I ask I was gonna say I was
going to preface that with uh every or every magazine I read or article if it's
not pro installer there's like this or we're on this kick of the labor
shortage for a time you can see it in the Publications it's like all of a sudden labor shortage comes up again and it's in every one of them but for the
most part outside that like uh uniting together to have this standardized curriculum which I I've
always thought it was very clever way to bring in manufacturers and and get a
training that each one trains on their products a specific uh and standardized
way and that's that's a great way to use product demos which you know I know you
elongate those it's not just a product demo but still like the set and your sales reps and people
like that can get involved and it comes out of different pots at the manufacturing uh so we we've all heard
about solution based selling this is solution Based training that's all it is right we teach what can go wrong on the
job and in our manufacturer our educational Partners they teach how to use their products to fix that problem
because if I just if I teach you how to use my product what did I just do I just
sold you my product yeah you kind of touch them both in yeah that's one of the big complaints with installers we
did we've done multiple surveys uh the number one reason installers are not
certified that was the question we asked why are you uh are you certified if not why that's basic the survey number one
reason I don't know where to go number two reason it doesn't make me any
more money the number three reason they just do not think it makes them any better they
don't see any value in it whatsoever yeah so you know it kind of plays all to this you know in my opinion we need to
start um really having a higher expectation of
you know the manufacturer to continue to work with these things and the installer
to take advantage of the the train I mean Jerry can't train you can't train I mean Beth can't put out training
um topics and and locations without the training happening and installers participating so the installer
participation pieces is another one that just I don't know how to fix it perfectly other than what I'm doing at
go Carrera which is you know giving them lasting value but that third one that
third point was well yeah say forbo it's it's great if I'm installing four mode but outside
data doesn't give me any value well if you've installed before and ever messed
with four bow or been through one of their trainings you know that just going to even if you don't get the certificate
just going to the forebo train now I don't know where that's at this moment because I know they pulled back on that and yeah they have a great class
forward protect all's classes another good example we've sent three or four installers to to Michigan for that
um but the thought processes it's great when I'm installing that floor it doesn't make me
anything else unless I'm bidding on installation for that product what go career does just give them lasting value
so that's our attempt at like making these trainings mean something long term
um but you know I I do think that that's one of the you know the industry
told us the installer said well we don't see the value you know we don't know where to go so
they've told us what problems to fix we've got to unite together to try to fix those that's my two cents but I I
kind of want to interject on that I want to interject on that for a second real quick it's already rub guys but uh
uh the they don't see any value and it doesn't make them any more money right so you're probably right in the sense
but if that's the if that's where you're gonna stay mentally that you then you probably don't need to make more money you probably don't deserve to make more
money um and you um the training and the certifications
don't make you more money they make you more valuable to yourself and to the industry so in turn you can generate
additional Revenue right you might not make more money per square foot but your
failure rate is going to decrease and then the phone calls that you get because of your success rates and the
high-end work you kick out is going to increase which in turn could could dictate the your value a little bit more
now you're more valuable to the industry to your local people and you can bump your your rates up a little bit because
you are valuable so just put the skills to like you said put the skills to work that you that you
learned and you will make more money that's yeah maybe not the day you get back from
training you know but several you you show you prove what that what these the
trainings you've been through you prove what they've done for your um your approach and technique and and
yes um Quality and then you can demand more we have guys uh uh as uh Stewart
Associates and installation um companies that
do absolutely fantastic work and they do get paid more by us they're less
headache we know we're not going to have to go out to the job site as much I mean you will make more money I don't know
where that came from that is just what the survey said but the in the so it's obvious I know where it came from
standardized from people like me they came from people like me they're back in the day when when people said go get
your certifications like it ain't gonna do me any justice you know go learn something why I already know how to do it right I was stubborn I was big-headed
it came from people just like me I know exactly where it came from and that's that that's why it's easy for me to go
ahead and and push back on that now because this if you guys aren't willing to invest in yourself like I wasn't willing to invest
in myself a while ago I mean it wasn't until Daniel push pushed me through that door right like hey dude we got to start
doing this it's like dude you're right I don't have anything to show for 20 almost 20 years of of installation like
you're right and uh if you don't invest in yourself you
won't receive any additional funds you won't receive anything in addition to what you're already making
um and you know and granted some people are after the the large dollars some
people are after the long term the longevity of their career and there's there's no wrong way when you're going
and getting educated and training yourself if you want the large dollar you'll get educated train yourself be
have more knowledge right familiarize yourself with more than one product because the the whether you like
it or not those disciplines they overlapped they overlap the more you know about everything and collectively
the better off you are well the more the guy the guys that know that you can send to do a tile job and then turn around
and send them to do a flash coach sheet bottle project they're like worth their weight in gold
[Music] the way you were the way you did think
uh is is flawed right and you change that and look at the results I mean I
this podcast has been here to try to expose that if you will just take the
step and get yourself to these training courses go to go
careers training page go to the nasct's training page go to there there are a
lot of places to go now where you can find it you got to take the leap of faith I just I get what you're saying
but that's where it came from but how do we fix that you know how do you fix the people that believe that and it's only
education and then a podcast like this that bring out the truth I I made more
money after I started getting certified and this was after I started this company it was just a mindset shift well
I think a lot of it has to do with like he said you know your your mindset and then thinking that why do I need this I
already know how to do it and then what happens if you go to your first class and then you learn that you know one or
two nuggets and it's like I never thought of that before and I'm never gonna do it the old way again and then
it's like well what else have I been doing wrong and then further in your education from there because
man what else do you mean this has got to be humble enough to say all right I don't know everything
from someone that does we don't know what you don't know [Laughter]
I was just gonna say there's some really important points in here first one uh yeah forebo that was my first
installation class that I ever attended I learned so much from that and it opened my eyes to you know just the
quality of the class and um you know I did starting off an installation I heard a lot about it
signed myself up for the class got in and uh but after that we've expanded uh
because we've had to uh to to get people interested in training
we in and you don't want to Market you know failures and things like that but we do talk about what can happen by not
going through it and you know anybody who's put in protect all if if they don't pay attention to the welding
process and we had one of the biggest challenges years ago we rolled out rapid weld because everybody you know a 30
year old heat welder he knows how to weld he's not going to come to a class learn how to put on rapid Weld and we
fought that battle but when we started to show some of that you know not Market us negatively but a poor weld what can
happen to you but you know one that's that's helped us a little bit also get people interested
in coming to classes is talking about bidding correctly and Jose you were touching on it
um you know timing that it takes to weld or base and those types of things so we we've added in a portion that is more
than just installation but knowing how to bid properly and make sure that you're making money on it and things like that and that's also it's helped a
little bit I can't say it's it's completely you know it has people knocking down our doors for it but you know we get good participation and
people are interested in that so we've expanded on topics like that also which you know that does catch people's
attention and it's it's been beneficial awesome yeah and I think Jose and Daniel nailed it I mean
it's it's not for the instant gratification I mean just look at the two of them look how long they've been
doing training five six years I don't know how long ago Daniel did we meet at a heat weld class yeah like five years
ago yeah it's been a while and look at the success you guys have had
um but you know the biggest challenge that I see from installers when we say we want them to come to a certification
course the their first thought is oh you're going to try to teach me how to install floors that's not what I'm doing
you know how to teach you know how to install floors I'm teaching you better ways to do it and if you pick up two or
three or four different points at the class guess what that's two or three or four different callbacks you're not
gonna get right you know it takes two or three of those a year to where you're making more money
right you don't have to go fix a headache because oh I learned that at a class that's making you money so you've
got to understand the principle of you know it's not just hey I want more per per you know per per square foot or per
yard whatever it is you know I I always tell people it's like a professional athlete right you think a major league
baseball player doesn't know how to play baseball he knows how to play baseball really good but guess what he does in
between games he practices he trains it's the exact same thing you can't
assume you can't rest on your laurels you can't assume that what you're doing is the right way or the best way I gave
a I gave a presentation last week about ASTM and ASTM standards
it's shocking that people don't know about these standards yet when there's a complaint against your work guess what
you're going to be judged by ASTM standards right and these guys don't have it in
their pocket you should be in your toolbox right next to your Hammer your project managers need to have it again
what we just said a few minutes ago you don't know what you don't know and when you get involved with these groups
for me I sit down with some Chrysler every time I can I think I know a lot about the industry I sit down with Tim
christler I don't say a word for an hour and a half I listen I learn from them and there's people like that all through
the industry that you've got to be humble and understand there's things that you can learn I love that part I love that part of the
industry by the way you guys that's my favorite the what no the part where everyone's willing to
share information yeah that is that's my favorite part like I like to learn right like I like to
absorb information that I love that part that everyone has about them yeah especially the old timers they they're
willing oh yeah to share a lot yep Beth what what do you uh so I was gonna say
there's two things that I think are kind of missing and I'm gonna rewind just a
little bit the manufacturer conversation um something that I stumbled across and
you know all my dealings with everyone and all these shows that I go to um we all know who the manufacturers are
who are involved in installation I mean it's pretty obvious but if you talk to any of the others who
aren't and you say you know so what do you think about this you know installer
shortage well it's not my problem and that's been the attitude of the ones
who aren't involved and and so just like you're talking about the installers trying to switch their attitude and
convince them that training is worthwhile it's going to make them better more efficient installers you
know how do you you have that same problem but with the manufacturer so how do you convert them also you know to see
the value in training and to see the value and and having an installer who can do an excellent job with their
product and make them look better yeah it seems like one one thing to
point out it seems to be you know the real Forefront companies do training you
know right and like you're you're I'll just say inventors of product you know
the the people who are on the your protectors that made product and it has a specific way of installation
specifically with rapid weld you know uh your Nora your Nora rubbers your your
four bows and then your larger companies and they just they
got away from training all together the manufacturers because of the liability am I right in that Sonny is that that's
exactly what it is they don't want to give a certification because of the liability yeah and then they even I
understood kind of pulled back on even like completion courses and it blows my mind
like yeah that you know like the certificate of completion side of things
so you don't get a uh certification but you get a certificate of completion but
what blows my mind is that the manufacturers gave up on that so easy I mean some of them are not
obviously but they gave up on that they just wanted to wash their hands of the
liability and it it's like well what about the three-point I think it was last year was 3.4 billion dollars
3.4 billion in flooring failures I believe it that that's ambulance
if we can't fix that that and that includes moisture and when you include
moisture it bumps it up there quite a bit and some of it you know you look at different uh studies or surveys but yeah
around 3.4 3.8 billion collectively well if we could lower that by half by
getting by manufacturers stepping in and educating again what what is your take Jerry just from the manufacturer's side
of things what what is the big liability no no manufacturers really been able to
answer that because um if they set up a separate entity to
train out of you know I just use one of the big names like Shaw and it was Shaw Training LLC a
completely separated entity they could do this just like a college and have no
liability when when a surgeon gets a malpractice suit they don't Sue Harvard
freaking metal medical right so what what is your um
from the manufacturer side there Jerry what's your take on that yeah it's to me it comes back to
resources uh you know luckily I have visibility to our parent company uh the
roofing manufacturer and and they you know they do they have that in in the
reason they they're able to is because they inspect every job that goes in um and that's how they they grade their
contractors you know for us we're just not big enough to be able to do that yet and uh we tried it years ago to be able
to put eyes on it and to be able to uh and it was just a major undertaking
um we just weren't ready to do that yet but it's it's in conversations uh that
we have quite often on how do we how do we bring back that grading system stay up on it just to make sure that you know
installers are meeting the you know the five-star level that we would want them to be but uh you know we haven't figured
it out yet and uh it is something that we would like to get to well I got a couple solutions for you we should talk
offline so having a network of trusted
installers across the country that can go inspect to well yeah and and the fact that uh you know if you're protect all
trained and you have that value on your Hammer rating uh the we could you can
tag the product and then you would know the level of execution for each
installer who's touched your product at least on our Network so anyway we can talk about that offline I try not to be
too salesy with go Carrera on this but a lot of the problems we uh you should be
you should be selling it every episode well we we inevitably fall in and start
talking about it but you know having a a full network of of graded installers so
to speak scored at the very least and your guys's training uh has an impact on
those people's scores you know we have your training on our platform and
um but yeah so back to the uniting of it that's what
from a training and then instead you know if you said utopian world it's like
you get out of college and there's or out of high school and there's some uh inkling for you to go into flooring in
there some in there's this welcome place we don't have that welcome place like
hey come into our you know I think fcf's trying to be that but
um here's where you need to go first and second and third you know to get plugged into the industry make sure that that
training's almost from the very beginning there's no formalized training it's word of mouth that's all we have my
uncle installs them we get this guy you know and get my nephew to work with me it needs to be you know and I always
here's the chicken which came first the chicken or the egg it's like well we don't have the training because nobody's asking for it well nobody's asking for
it because you don't have the training right so that that's that's one of the gaps that we need to to fill before we
can start really getting people right out of high school to come in the installation because if you think about
flooring I didn't mean to cut you off Paul but no you're good when you when you think about flooring especially when
you come in from the installation side of it there's no other industry out there
anywhere that opens more doors from than an installer and floor covering you can be an inspector you can work for a
manufacturer you can have your own store you can get in logistics because if you understand how these things fit it's
it's crazy what all you can get into whatever you want to do in the industry you can do it you just got to look for
it but that message is not getting to people coming out of high school coming out of college coming out of the Armed
Forces we're not getting that message to them and that's that's that's the bridge we need to gap for sure
yeah I think people in John steyer who are who are trying to change that as well I know that oh sure there's a lot
of groups that are trying yep yeah and that uh Crystal baby sisters uh
tried to Advocate at the local uh high school as well or or in the area and and
I do the same thing here it can try to get in there until we're blue in the face but everyone is always uh
we have a couple roadblocks is really all it is right yes you have to put ourselves in a position where we are also glorified as some of the other
trades so that way people are made aware of of us and and our
uh and what the flooring industry has to offer as a whole not just the installation side but you're right like everything else that comes along with
and that's where it comes as a package right where everyone has to come together because we talked about
manufacturers and how some of them don't care about training and then you go on some of these retail groups and a lot of
you know what's been on some of these retail groups lately is it's not our
deal to train the installers or to let them know that they're worth more if they don't know that they're worth more
I'm just going to keep on paying them but then you get these you know low paid installers that can't go to training
because they can't afford it and they can't pay guys what they're worth because they don't know how to charge
and it's it's just like a vicious circle and it just keeps on doing the same thing over and over again
um and then you know I got a comment from Facebook from Kendall and he he's just going back to manufacturers about
um blaming installers and stuff like that um his example was you know carpet
delamination they always want to blame the installers when it's not the installer's fault but that's where you
have to take into consideration if you take some of these classes you learn about what to look for and stuff like
that so that's the combination and this is document everything from all right
this is I think this is a manufacturer defect this is what I'm going to document this is who I have to talk to
this is who I'm going to send it to and then that way everything is a process
right and these are things no because you're not talking to the right people
it's it's we've been through it where we go on a job and it's like this is your
guys's fault and it's like 100 it's not I guarantee it send it and here's why
here's why yeah send an inspector out I got pictures from start to the Finish
uh what do you guys need to know well that's the that's that's the um you know
it's that's the combative nature a bit between manufacturer installation is it
is you can almost guarantee unless you have a slam dunk claim and I've been through a lot of claims over the years
uh 23 25 years of being in business
the the in the inspector Community
um you know should should not I don't like when the manufacturer uh
hires the inspector and they say they come to my job I've yet to have that turn out uh great not in your favor well
yeah we very very rarely lose these scenarios because we do document so well
but the uh point I wanted to bring up was your point Daniel that I think gets
missed in training is that you start to learn what is being looked for and you
can protect yourself uh the Nuggets that Sunny mentioned earlier that you pick up
on jobs I mean I've had that happen like in our company we had a a couple of
Subs that CFI I I talked them into going and getting CFI and they've been doing it
they learned from their Uncle who was actually a union trained uh installer
and resilient and carpet Iraq I guess uh they were very good installers so they
were very reluctant to go to the training they came back and they've since went to another one uh so they're
all the way through C2 because they were like I didn't even know like these all
these different little tricks that I was taught at this yeah you know you just don't like you said don't know what you don't know I
implore you guys to give the your yourself an advantage if nothing else
the confidence of knowing that you've been trained by industry standards yeah that's my rally cry to every installer
all the time well and if you don't get anything else the people listening don't get anything else from this podcast it's
what you just said documentation me as a manufacturer because I am a manufacturer
when I when I have a complaint and I approach the complaint and the contractor the installer has all the
information in front of them and they're open and they're talking this whole process goes a lot easier
it's when you're combative from day one because you don't know what you did right or did wrong you just oh I didn't
check it for moisture why should I check for moisture it's a 50 year old building right you know what you're supposed to do and
what you're not going to do you can actually work with a manufacturer and I'm telling you things are going to go better for you yeah
yeah Sonny I'll jump in on that too it uh it helps us because you know any if we ever get called to a situation we
want to figure it out you know we want to get everything resolved that helps us all come to what caused it uh not just
to say well I did that you don't bring it show it so we can validate it and absolutely uh you know we want to get to
the roots so we can correct it make sure uh you know there's no more issues moving forward has any of those
scenarios for you Jerry led to new training techniques within the class say get on a claim and you you see that oh
it's we probably should train on this more does that do those things come up I'm just curious absolutely
um you know one that that we saw uh we rolled out rapidwell it's uh concave seams so you know additional training on
that when I said earlier on that follow-up uh after somebody goes through the class going back because we know if
somebody lets the weld sit too long before they smooth it it drags it out the scene becomes concave so yeah we've
uh We've now what we call Refreshers is we go back and we touch on those topics where we see that we need to spend extra
time where maybe you know when the class is done everybody's ready to get back out to the field but uh yeah there's you
know there's certain items that we want to go back and just make sure they're comfortable and it goes back to what everybody was talking about today so the
installer is comfortable when they finish it's a good job everything is good it's solid
um yeah yep well I I think that in general I want to
screw this up today you know uh so mostly you'd be surprised to make a mistake or they may say they don't care
I think that happens a lot yeah they don't care yeah I don't get paid enough I mean look at floor price I don't care
I don't get paid enough although we say this like a joke the one thing that we do things that you can't
see it for my house yeah there you go I think I've heard that a couple times and we say that about a lot of things but
it's more and more or less a joke but yeah I think some guys are serious about that and then uh my my pet peeve is here
and installer say oh coat base will cover it you wouldn't have to worry if it was cut
in tight to the freaking wall base it'll be good yes I can't do this
and here's why ASTM 710 boom that solves about 50 of your problems right there
and I mentioned it you know General especially you're doing commercial work General Contractors want to minimize their liability as well if you tell them
this is why I can't do it it's going to fail I don't care if you find a guy who'll do it a buck a foot it'll still
fail they're gonna go with you if you can back it up I promise you yeah ASTM
standards are in every single contract that we've got that's right
that's our Firepower we use them opposite of what what has been used against us so no yeah it's not preferred
saying no it's ASTM saying no ASTM is pretty recognized they don't they don't like that nobody
like well you know according to the ASTM standards and right here on your guys's uh Master contract it says that I have
to abide by these but you guys are telling me not to right now so now we have a conflict of interest here all
right I'm going to be held to these standards if it fails it doesn't matter what I have and we've had the
conversation a few times but I think it's becoming a few fewer and further in between where those conversations are
actually coming up yeah Kendall came back with uh he said that he's documented stuff right out of the gate
taking pictures and the manufacturers still blame the installer
um so like whatever certification he has what
does it matter at that point because he needs the shop to have his back and he's just wondering what a good
response would be right so ask the certifying body who certified them give
the information to them I'd be happy to talk to anybody through Naf CT CFI would be happy to talk to anybody who said
look this is where I'm going that's what they're there for right you know they got these these numbers
for uh these associations and stuff like that you give them a call and it's like
hey I'm running into this who can I talk to and then they give you a list of people this is who you can talk to in
this field yeah there's all there's always going to be bad manufacturers there's nothing we can do about it but I
promise you the high majority of them want you to do a good job and want to help you do a good job and don't want
any problems right they're going to work with you not against you yeah so I mean when you get your first it's pretty
often when a when an inspector comes out uh that it's either going to be
maintenance or installation what you just got he needs to just push back like
don't take the first don't go down on the first punch that's the key and you can hire your own sector even then hire
your third-party inspector and have them go out and look at it and give give their opinion of it that's another big
piece they tried to fail a carpet job that we did and that's what the first thing we said they were like the inspector said it's your guys's fault we
said all right we're going to hire out our own inspector then and so to go take a look at it now is the end of that one
and then 100 the end of it there was another one where the manufacturer was like you guys did this this and this and
it's like no we we have that documentation you guys waited too long to to throw the VCT down well no we
didn't because you you say that we have you know 10 hours to throw it down we were in and
out in less than eight hours and it's all documented and then not only that at
some point it was but you guys know that we're certified right oh oh hold on yeah
let me let me get back to you yeah yeah I think those are a lot of the keys
where training come in and a you know what to ask for uh b i i you you know
where you can stand and fight like there's certain things not worth fighting for on inspection and there's
certain parts where you can dig your heels in if you know what you're doing and not to say that like
I think we can all agree most flooring failures are because of either
the environment or the installation I mean
manufacturers I'm they have culpability and have failures no doubt about it but
they are making their product in a controlled environment with all these state-of-the-art too I mean they have a
lot less areas where they're going to make a mistake than you are out in the field moving this damn thing around in a
in a you know at a school or something so uh that just goes back to more training
go to training learn where you can um well first off meet the people that
we've just been talking about this whole podcast the people you're going to meet there are going to can save your life I've called Jose and Daniel on stuff
they've called me on stuff we bounced things off of each other we have other people that we will call for advice and
things like just get to know the community first but secondly just knowing where you can really dig your
heels in and what what are those as team standards what are the installation instructions from the manufacturer so
you you can fight some of those deals but that all said uniting
um under you know what do we have to unite under and I think it's it's clear it's it's the installation Community the
training and then manufacturers have been making flooring forever
um we we can adapt to the new products and things as we are higher trained I
mean just put some guy that's never put a large format tile down and let him go try and it's like
you know if you've never been shown or properly trained on a particularly like
Gates porcelain panels I guarantee you are going to have yourself a nightmare so get trained get involved
um you know get your support group yeah reach out anybody on this podcast I know
um you know would be we we are I am more than willing I know
Daniel's more than willing I guarantee you Jerry being with protect all and sunny Beth is with the publication so
she might might uh tell you got the reasons
she knows everyone so you're you're safe you reach out but I mean we've made it known it's
um it's and it's one of the things like Dan or Jose said earlier that he's that he
loves is that we are willing in this industry to help each other out but you gotta know so the installers just got to
communicate a little bit more so yeah I was gonna make actually is the
communication side is something I've noticed I try to go I haven't been to any nafct training so anywhere have to
get together on that but um but something I've learned is there actually is all so much training going
on but so many people don't know about it uh there's organizations being developed
that people don't know about that's bringing training local to a specific area that I even know that fcef is
funding that they don't even promote and I know everyone's overwhelmed I know
they have a lot on their plate but until you tell everyone what you're doing and I know people don't always want to you
know be like hey look at me look at what I'm doing but you need to like where we're at right now like everyone these
young people coming up they need to see everyone who's involved they need to see the John Styers all of you they need to
know who they can reach out to in their area if they're interested I mean
because their parents are not telling them about it we're coming out of a generation of parents who don't
necessarily they didn't come up through the trades so so what you know so that's at least
where it needs to start is that awareness piece but then the other side is for those of us who are in the
industry is we've got to figure out how to communicate that to each other even
as a training aggregator which is one of the main things go career does like we got we put all the training together we
have a training page we try to aggregate it all there it's still it's like getting the
message out there and then anybody reacting I've I've I've posted a few
times with mixed reviews on social about a training in an area and it's not the
comments to come back or anything that that I've taken notice of it's the engagement of that it doesn't get
engaged with very well I don't know why I I don't know the answer to that piece but I think some people are just scared
man some people are scared to be told that that they're not doing a race and people are scared of failure right they
don't want to go to a training or a certification and walk away saying oh man I've been doing it wrong oh man that
was over my head or I didn't pass you know what it's it's not a failure if you're learning
something right if you're in the audience and that you drop the Eco and and like
that here's another component something to think about that I didn't it just didn't
dawn on me but actually a lot of people don't read well like a lot of people
who've been doing this for so so long don't read well they're not good test takers things like that so let me put
the word out I didn't think you were gonna call Daniel out like that
if that's the case then in that situation you just need to go to the people who are in charge and just
explain they will make accommodations for you so that you can get through it you know we do that with bilingual
classes we try to have an interpreter yeah like it's not only like everything that
we're talking about it's also we've been we've been to a class where someone
showed up and they're like they see us and they're intimidated they're like oh why am I here and it's like we're all
right here for the same thing man we're just trying to learn too and you know they they ended up leaving and it's like
don't be intimidated just because you think that we're better than you
right everyone has something and I can learn something from you as well as you can learn something from me that's right
that's right that's the same thing I I did I did uh what certification years ago uh the company I was working for
thought it was a resilience certification I went to a wood certification right I had zero knowledge
at that point about wood flooring but I went in there and there it was already paper and I said you know what it's okay
I'm in the wrong place I said but I'm I'm going to take I'm going to do all this and I'm going to pass right I
challenge myself um and and I did and I did and that's fine
do you know a little bit about some flooring that's going to go a long way no matter what what discipline you're
getting trained or certified in right and and for those people who like that's a people who can't read that well or or
or are afraid to public speak or can't really articulate their words properly
it's okay the flooring industry is blessed with a lot of Hands-On a lot of
a lot of the the classes is more they're the class there is an instructor and
maybe the ratio isn't what you want it to be or isn't what they wanted to be but I assure you that nobody is there to
put you in a bad spot to make you fail everyone wants to see you succeed and pass everyone wants to see you walk out
of there with more knowledge than you walked in with and if you have all the knowledge share and that's part of it
too right because even if you don't get certified you're still learning it's still a win yeah
well and that's I guess at at the core of it is is learn for your
you know go to the training to learn the stuff for yourself and you know
maybe leave the immediate gratification of making more money the next day you get certified or
um you know like like Daniel said if you're really good go help others I I
remember uh plenty there's every certification course I've been to every train I've been to there's somebody
who's really good in there that's walking around helping others as their as they finish their module before
anybody else uh you know it just tends to happen and nobody it's always been a
friendly uh enjoyable scenario so non-competitive yeah just get out there
uh expose yourself to it as as much as you can
um to build your own career like we if you're a flooring installer you are your
product your knowledge your hand skill in your head is your product and the
best way to turn that into a a whether you want to have just a good living or
you know turn it into a lot of money um is by doubling down on your knowledge
I mean even if you go and say um
you know I'm gonna let Jerry's gotta run it looks like Jerry you want to say a few last uh
parting words for us yeah guys um and I hate to cut this short because this is a great conversation but
um but you have to do it on a lake man I mean well I got to go pick up kids
um so it's priorities uh he says we got family again no but this is great and uh
for anybody listening uh you know man and I bet I think you said it but the
resources on on this webinar and and those out there you know we're all willing to help you know we want to
create trainings that work for everybody and we we want to put in topics that everybody wants to learn more about in
addition to because we know everybody knows how to put down she goods and cut and things like that but we want to get
into topics that people want to learn more about too so so just remember we want to hear that and we want to know how we can do it better uh so it's you
know it's it's accommodating to people coming in and really that's for me I think all of us coming together we've
started a little bit of it that I shared earlier bringing in other manufacturer to touch on topics when we do classes
but um you know we want to hear from people how we can do it better because that's that's very important to me always uh
how do people get the most out of a class that protect outputs together and I've heard other manufacturers that you
know intrigued to hear the same so keep sharing it with us and uh we'll definitely continue to do better on our
side and add more to bring value to people that come to those classes let them know how to get a hold of you too
I appreciate that no that's great well wrapping up here
thanks Jerry for joining us uh we have come upon our our one hour so we're gonna shut this thing down
um that we'll go around last closing statement mine is what I got out of this
whole thing is that the fact is is we as a con as a uh flooring Community overall
it's it's the smallest Big Industry I know of like the one you can sit across
the table from the CEO of Shaw or Mohawk at a luncheon at just a general flooring
convention um it's the smallest Big Industry I know and everybody you've heard it across the
the table here everybody's willing to help one another so get involved join and that is in its very nature Unity if
if you go to these things where everybody congregates and make these shows the installer has a bigger
presence you will be listening to more it's go careers rally cry to give the
installer a voice but you have to take your your steps and you got to take your part so that's my my two cents Sonny
I'll go right down the list what's your any closing thoughts there sir the biggest thing for me is going to be ASTM
I always talk about ASTM um if there's ever a complaint or a
problem on one of your job sites you will be judged by one or multiple ASTM standards and it drives me crazy when
people don't know what those standards are so join take is 75 to join as a
individual join and understand those documents and I promise you promise you
it will help you with headaches on a job site awesome well thanks for joining us today sunny
it was it was awesome good to see you again yes sir always good to see you appreciate you having me how about you
Beth I'll go back to the communication part uh make use of your trade Publications I
mean I want to plug FCI magazine but the truth is reach out to Jeff at Pro installer reach out to Floor Covering
news reach out to weekly let us know what you guys are doing I mean we we represent the voice of the industry but
we can only put out there what we get so if no one's talking to us then nothing's
going out so please just whoever you feel most comfortable with reach out to
that person that magazine yep awesome yeah if I can say one one more thing
her point was was spot on because she wasn't selfish she mentioned all the
other Publications that are out there and if you get in the minutia of all this training we all support each other
right there may be there may be some here or there I get it it's political it's gonna happen but if you get down to
it we all support each other because we all want to support the installer who's on the job site we're not selling
anything but education that's right trades Publications like honestly yes
we're all competing for the same news but at the end of the day you're going to see us all sitting together that's right somewhere so that's right
that's right Jose what's your uh closing thoughts all right closing thoughts uh you know if if
it really the the topic the conversation was how can we bring the industry together and unite it's
um existing installers out there who are aren't really strong for the
certification or don't really push for certification or training do your best to change your mindset right because the the amount of
information you're going to get and the the knowledge you're going to gain um is very very minimal to the
opportunities that you're going to have in front of you through the social capital that you're going to create the
social capital Alone um is worth its weight in gold and even if you go through trainings that don't
get certifications at least you're increasing that Capital to where you have someone you can call and if someone
calls you because you're you're climbing the ranks of someone who's knowledgeable then you're going to know someone that
you can refer them to if you don't have an answer and I think that that's really what is going to unite everyone under
the same blanket is is having that that Social Capital that the ability to lean on the industry for questions and
answers that that is that is really what is going to help each other out well said thanks sir awesome Daniel
we're talking about being united right let's we're all everyone manufacturers
retailers stores installers we're all here to put in a beautiful floor that's going to last the lifetime of that the
floor that's supposed to be down right so we need to get together and like you said especially as installers were kind
of that minority group at these shows and stuff so we need to group together even more so that way our presence is
known so if the more people we get out there they have to start paying attention to us
yeah we're not just that afterthought yeah so let's come together let's go to
these shows let's hang out man let's talk to each other that's uh
that's what it's all about that's right I know
you don't have a lot of time like I think I only seen Sunny for dinner one
time as service is but hey we still hung out daytime that's right
well if you're if you're uh in the audience you like any um of the topics that we've talked about
or that you know you're you um have found some things that struck you know struck a chord with you please
consider liking subscribing comment on the the the uh Facebook pages and and
YouTube help us out there but importantly we'd like to know what what
um what topics you guys want to you know have us discuss we've got a lot of years and and access to many of the industry
professionals so consider a like And subscribe and with that I'm going to uh wrap this thing up everybody thank you
so much for coming it was a blast um as usual you know we we came right up
on the hour it went faster than I even expected so that's what happens when you're when you're out we started Paul
said I want to keep this at around a half hour 30 minutes and you see me laugh you seen me laugh right when he
said that too we did it twice twice as good
all right guys we'll have a great rest of your fourth of July thank you all right see you guys see you everybody
thank you guys
The Huddle - Episode 53 - Improving Efficiency and Productivity
This week the guys discuss different ways within your business and in your installation techniques that you can improve your productivity and efficiency in your work.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up
welcome floor and family we're here again on a wonderful Tuesday afternoon 3 P.M Central we come every
Tuesday nearly every Tuesday most Tuesdays 99
uh to discuss maintaining forward progress in your forwarding career we go over a multitude of different topics so
if you're watching this on any of the socials please consider like being subscribing
um on YouTube if you find this valuable a lot of the content is
um you know got a lot of years of experience behind it and so we just try
to come with different topics to keep keep the ball rolling and a lot of times you'll see that
um the topics overlap but that's what business is about is a lot of of things
you do will overlap so today's topic is improving efficiency and productivity uh
I think we can talk about field and um office you know how to set up a job
properly but first off uh like I said before uh hit that like
And subscribe button do it now or else we're not going to be here next day I'm just kidding okay so
all right let's hop along guys um so you know when when I talk when I think
about efficiency and productivity I always think about planning uh I always think about setting up things to uh
succeed the best um just about anything you do you do that but often on job sites uh we I
experienced it last uh last week I was on the job site and we had guys you know a younger crew
gluing up uh some classrooms for some lvt and carpet tile
and it glue up one part at a time and wait for it to dry and glue up the next one and wait for it
to dry and working with other trades and letting other trades in the rooms and
trying to work with them to allow them and so uh we switched it up when I got on
site we got all the other trades out of there and we glued up six rooms and
um got them all installed but the the point is how you set up and play your your job
just about anything when you start talking about efficiency and productivity it requires a plan so
that's my two cents you know um I had wrote that down about the
um you know that's a simple uh example but
it's a real life one that just happened is you know how to use best set up the
job as an installer to be able to get the most productivity earn the most money and leave the the the best
impression upon the client office um my two cents there is just you know
really making sure your job sites are set up um go careers coming out with the new
feature that's going to help drastically with this I believe and that's called link and you'll be able to shoot a link
call to your video call to your superintendent make sure they walk you through the will be probably doing a
demo here on live on the podcast in the future to kind of give you an idea of what that's about so
you know inefficiencies and loss of productivity uh labors are number one or
number two uh expense and so efficiency and productivity are like the key to
profit so what's your guys's thoughts on setting up you know we got kind of this
field and office kind of dichotomy but both have their jobs to do I just want
to kind of add to what you just said because it does it does bring to the surface um
some of the issue is is having the right leadership who understands the that there is a
a process a systematic process into which everything should be installed in order for it to be profitable
um and and get some square footage down um and it almost sounds like uh there
was uh I don't know the guys but like for me I would interpret that situation that you ran into as
um a very passive crew um where they just nail on the head I'll just say
you hit the nail on the head yeah that that would be it like they don't want to ruffle feathers they don't like but at
the same time they're putting everyone else's profit and everyone else's uh dollars and cents
and and forward progress Before Their Own um and can't make up those days at the
end yeah yeah I would I would say you hit the nail on the head a passive uh we
don't want to be
some guy trying to get through a freshly brand I just put my final sweep on the
floor and they're trying to walk through and it's all caution taped off I said you can't come through here I got a job to do too uh you know starts
barking I said I get it give us a couple hours this will be ready and he just keeps going and going and going and I
was like look you're not coming through so I don't know what to tell you you're just wasting time standing here arguing with me so
you know go find something this building's huge go find something else to do for a couple hours and we'll have
you a path through here where you can walk on it right and they don't understand is you need the floor to do
the floor right and it's like so we we explain to people it's like look
like you said go find something else to do right now you can have this entire area tomorrow
but today it's mine yep yeah yeah and and convincing
um you know contractors we didn't used to have to way back in the day it was just
when the flooring guys are there it's time to get out of the way because we are the one trade that needs the entire
space we can't write a painter can paint a wall an electrician be on the other
wall uh uh uh outlet covers right behind him you
know and ceiling guy can can be up there you know work and uh not creating dust
if they're painting but you know electrician can be up in the ceiling even working as long as it's not creating a bunch of dust I mean that you
can just you're not taking up the whole Space of the qrm fluorine but that's why GCS if you're watching we want to be in
last that's why we say we're the last ones in and get try you know I find gc's
more and more often trying to shoehorn you in before they're still in Grid up and you're doing full height wall tile and
they want you to just cut it to this line and all this kind of crap it's just like just get to work in front of me and
then I'll do my job and we're more efficient we actually proved our point last week when we ended up doing
little over a thousand yards and probably 4 000 feet of base and or right
around there a bunch of transitions a bunch of three another three thousand feet of lvt on top of that in a day and
a half with six of us and they they were like well we want to do
it this way every time now and we're like that's what we've been trying to get you to get to allow us to do the
whole time is like get the entire area ready the entire Wing can be ready and
we can knock it out in a day and be in and out of your hair or you can do it
the way that you were having us do it before where in the other Wing we'd go
in and do a classroom and then jump over to the classroom across the the common area and do that one and then hip Scotch
it Hopscotch over to another you know it just that's inefficiency it is
when you're able to [Music] and they do give you more freedom more room to roam
um Team morale is actually up too because you don't have just certain stops so many different times you don't
have to uh you know you don't get like you said hop you go across the hall do another room
back and forth right instead of just progressing or go down well you got to take your tools with you they just don't
understand that I set up all over again yeah
and sometimes you're going to lose a half a day with a whole crew if you've got to go somewhere else it's
particularly true if you're in an air if you're outside you're like if you're an hour or more away if you're going to be
staying the night like I had six guys have to stay one night
away from their family for one night as opposed to one crew for
six or seven days or maybe even 10 days dinking and
dunking around and you having us do this corner and then you move your freaking
piles of ceiling tile on top of our carpet and then we get this sand and sweep and
do the other area and then you move more on there and then we you know it's just like it it's completely inefficient
what I would say for companies and I tell my managers is fight for your
efficiency fight for your company the job sites are friendly
you just have to you just cannot be a yes man if they say we want you here on the 26th doing you know this classroom
and unless they can give you one hell of a compelling reason say how about I'm there on the
30th and you have eight classrooms and then I'll come through and I'll knock
all eight of those out in the same time as it would take one when the job site's
four hours away yeah 100 yeah I mean we 've been a couple for a long until I
forgot that too is uh you know we can just as easily do you know ten thousand
square feet as we can do uh you know five thousand square feet if we have the room to roam it's we're already set up
we're already ready to rock you know we don't know starting to stop and remobilizing uh re-situating any areas
that we have set up for mixing prep material and no reasons the big thing is
prep because they did you don't realize a lot of what we do especially in the
resilient world is prep so we'll prep for four days and then we'll install
everything in one day so when you're trying to make us do that in sections it just don't work out yeah
even when you're prepping for like this was carpet tile Milliken carp towel so it doesn't have to be perfect
but you know when you're prepping for that and you're scraping and sanding and
and sweeping and uh you know clean out saw joints and
patching saw joints when you're doing all of that activity to stop wait for that to dry and then once that
dries you glue up the room and now you're waiting for that to dry for that start and stop they don't
understand how many hours that costs you
shut up that uh one little area it would have probably it probably cost
us five or six hours of man hours to do it that way comparative every day
comparative to getting in a flow and prepping all the rooms like one person is cleaning out
saw joints and vacuuming as they go and the other guys right behind them patching floors and once you get that
system going and just as soon as you're done patching your go the the first guy
is going back and grabbing the sand or hitting and if you patch it right with Corp tail you ain't got to do this but
uh going back and hitting uh you know sanding the the floors and going through
right behind that and Pat and uh uh sweeping well at the end of four hours
over all the rooms are ready compared compared to the same amount or similar amount of time and wondering so yeah
efficiencies really what I hear and what comes up a lot and you will find this I
think you guys probably already know it's communication like communicating with your GC on what you need and then
holding strong and then executing on the plan there's nothing worse than if you
say no I'm not going to be there until this day and I'll knock it out in a day
and it takes you four days still well you know they have the right to be a little upset then yeah the fact is like
you know know what you can do and and proper planning and proper communication
because you guys just said it you know you got to talk to the GCE
and it's just understanding I think there's a there's a longer list
of what not to say right you know not to approach it than there is to as far as what to say and
I think with a little bit of practice anybody can uh can get to that point where they're just
you uh under promise over delivered and that's that's another thing too is that
that helps yeah the job's set up so you you use some mechanism to make
sure that you go go to the job site or you you discuss and make sure the area is ready and your crew shows up and
there's ample space most good flooring companies are going to really surprise you with how much can
be done if you give them the area and the the the
cooperation of getting stuff out of the way helping to uh maintain traffic
because that's another big piece that we always have to fight is traffic uh but
then you know you'll get a lot of floors down in a short amount of time most most of the time what's your uh I do have a
question for you guys what's your approach on say uh do you guys do Residential remodels or
new just new residential only remodels only remodels that's probably a little
easier when you're just dealing with the homeowner but what are some some um you know best practices there guys
for for our residential uh audience get all your ducks in a row
don't uh if if you have an installation background then you might have a little
more information to pass on to the the homeowner right but but do not speak for the installer unless you know for sure
you guys are installing in the same exact uh method oh because I from start to
finish might be a little bit different than Daniel and we might be different than you and I don't want to over speak
um so um doing your best to not give false expectations are we talking we're
talking about salesman here from a retail place or something salesman yeah and that's only because we've been in
the situation before when they're like well they said that you guys were going to start over here and it's like why
would anyone ever start in this back room right here it's hard to closet yeah
start your closet so I can put all my coats back that's a real thing
um I would say that that would would help with um efficiency is a where I was going
with that was setting expectations right uh don't don't set the wrong expectations and be
thorough and don't be afraid to say I'll have to get with the installer or
if you are the installer and you're selling the job and that's what you're doing then just make sure you're not over speaking don't don't make a promise
that you don't know you can keep yet I agree any other residential we do now
we only do I shouldn't say only 99 of the residential we do which is pretty small
amount overall um is is new uh or near new
um doing a house for a guy where I had to go in and finish up some work for another company
um a good a good buddy of mine that you know built the Big O house and stuff
didn't get done right and he asked me to help him get it finished so the
the best thing I can say that from my experience is to let them know that
you know it not kind of like what you said earlier Jose not over promise with
a homeowner because that it's so they only have a few days construction sites one is one thing I I say don't do that
on construction sites either but when you're only going to be on a job for two or three days you know doing
somebody's kitchen or somebody re-corping in someone's house or some new vinyl in the laundry room or
whatever when you're only going to be there for a short time if you if one day turns into two well you just doubled the
time you know and yeah double the Homeowner's uh exposure to the whole uh
flooring replacement and it's it's a disruptive deal to have your flooring replaced because you got to move everything it's not like you can just
throw plastic over it and paint the walls you know it's like everything's got to be moved out
oh good communication again it goes back to communicating well with the person who's
receiving the service you're right about those curveballs too because we just actually had an instance like that where
um the installer had a death in the family and had to deal with a couple things and just like he was like hey let
me push it back a day and then it turned to two days and it's like just take care of what you got to take
care of we'll get it covered right it instead of pushing it back and costing
the the client an extra couple days because they had to get a pod unloaded they were moving from out of state they
were on a time frame that like a deadline and we we had to figure it out on our end
and we did it did cost us an extra day for us to go in there because it was kind of a you know curveball but um we
were able to to make it happen that's what I think you have to realize in residential too is that like they
weren't living in there yet but most the time they are and they're taking off days of work in order to be there
because I mean that's that's our whole world in that house so they're not trying to have
anyone in there messing with anything that that they don't want them to so they want to be present
yeah and those days off are important to people I mean just think of yourself when you take a day off you know to do
something and it doesn't happen I mean it's it's it's disruptive so trying to hit those days kudos to you guys one of
the reasons we don't do much residential is uh we're just not
we haven't taken the time to get good enough at at really approaching it to where we don't disrupt the homeowner uh
I know it's a good business but we we just have not found the best way so maybe we're just too commercially minded
but most of our residential yeah you guys have pulled it off though can we
just deal with it like you know sometimes you just gotta roll
with the punches man that's it that's all we can do well the I I would say the the one thing
I always remind people is like I don't want to rush through this to get you done on
time in the in the time frames the times we have been doing residential jobs and
not being able to get done in time you're going to be living with this floor for a long time I don't want five
hours of extra time I could get out of here and leave yet but I want this to last for you I want this to be beautiful
and you look at it and you know kind of show them the vision of it once it's done through the words of you know just
through communication um yeah I I I'll sacrifice an extra five
hours tomorrow uh to get this done right because I don't want to I don't want to have any you know problems long-term
problems there's 100 percent so again communication so you know
efficiency is all about productivity or you know leads up it's kind of like I
view it as like the building blocks of productivity if you're efficient you should be productive not always but uh
for the most part it's going to improve your productivity um as Subs we you know when I subbed it
was the number one thing I concerned myself with going to a job I mean I did a lot of planning as I said ahead of
time asking questions and discussing the project with my you know client whoever
I was working for because I wanted to go in and like I was kind of considered a
jerk because I didn't talk a lot I was just like I'm here to work I can't even
imagine that I can't even imagine that well it was just a different time and
and uh frankly I had a the child very well and I just you know
I had to get her to appointments all the time and it was all about just kidding get my work done and I was just one
track minded um but outside that it's you know it's
the only way you can really it's the easiest way you can impact your bottom line as an installer is by increasing
your efficiency and your productivity unless you're supplying materials which most installers you know maybe Supply
some stuff but not the bulk of the materials I do I do know there's some you know there's
installer is going to pick it up and take it to the house and do the job if that's the case
your number one cost is your labor your your personal time as well as you have
helping you uh so just this can can make a big impact on your on your bottom line
if you listen to some of these things and really communicate well and may plan
for your job don't just show up to the job with no idea make sure you have the right equipment make sure you have the
right you know tools and materials and check all that when you get there because who wants to get halfway you
know through the job start unpacking stuff just to find out it's not the right material so right you know or the
right equipment um so one of the things that we started doing early on too was
like you said asking questions
this is all stuff that like if I go look at a project I'm going to test the rip on a commercial job I'm gonna I want to
know uh how hard is it what equipment am I going to need am I on the first floor uh upper levels what is the capacity of
the elevator do I have a a dedicated elevator where can the dumpster be put like all of this has you know it all
ties into the efficiency thing so that way I know who what uh and when I can
plug it in to maximize efficiency and doing all of that as a labor only
actually helped us become better um when we got into the sales portion because now we're looking at just we're
looking at way more than one aspect right because if you can maximize on the labor portion and then and and then do
your best to be efficient on uh the sales portion you're going to maximize your profitability uh with both of those
areas combined and that's really what I mean you're going to practice until
you figure that out man it's gonna you're gonna evolve right but you gotta you gotta put for some effort into
all of the details the details are very important for efficiency yeah yeah so communication those details like
you said where the dumpster sets is even an important one especially on your larger if you're on a larger job site
even if it's a house the dumpster's freaking 100 yards away you better be thinking about that when you're planning
your your installation I mean it's going to be a hold just to get your trash thrown away we've put that a lot
on Commercial sites where the dumpsters you know good 100 yards away from the building or you know at the other end of
the building or something you're tearing up a bunch of BCT and they give you a dumpster that's got six
foot walls but you got to get the VCT in there and they already loaded some of it you know now you're
yeah pulling up trash cans like this just so that way you can lift and dump if they don't have a way to put in a
bucket and a sky track so there's a there's all that like I don't know live and learn I guess that's like hey I
don't want anything higher than four feet you know or make friends with the uh make friends with the other trades
too because they're typically the ones with the uniloders and lulls on job sites that'll help you get your
materials off but a bottle of crowns went a long way in the past together or
pizza pizza or Donuts 30 pounds yeah yeah just take care of each other out
there and usually it's good to do it before you ask the favors just say hey look I got everybody this hey who are you for
the floor guys we're now starting till you know next week and then they right away they already like your crew because hey your your
boss bottles Donuts what they don't even buy us Donuts yeah the the
talk about efficiency not not much more savings on efficiency than than
you know fork and a pallet of carpet tile off a job instead of uh hand
unloading it my brother has his dog here and he keeps on farting dude
I was gonna ask if your brother was letting loose or what yeah
he keeps on farting right well um
uh the systematic approach to things to maximize your labor and maximize uh your
productivity I wrote down you know with most jobs if you nickel and dime a job
that's got a penny budget you're gonna you're setting yourself up for failure right so like you got to get in and not
nickel and dime a project around um so again that goes back to
communication and good quality uh information from you and and talking to
people um the setting up of tools and things like that
the crews that we see be the most successful either have a major rig that
has just about everything you can think of in it or they're very
um meticulous in what they put in their Vans or their their vehicles when they
know they're going to do a job and of course all over the crews we work with are our go career
and I'm I've started in my detail area even putting equipment like required
equipment stuff I know you're going to have to have right like if it's a hard
rip and I will put on there you know either right on demo carpet pool or
something you better take something little Eddie's thumping because it's gonna be a bear you know so I'm trying
to communicate that to the cruise better that's how we can get continue to get better as a company we're not great
um at that even I'd say we're good but we can become better uh at at trying to
make sure that we're communicating the information of the job site to the installer before they get there
installer has a listen though because there's been plenty of times where we're out there in the warehouse and we're
like hey make sure you take this and then we get a call like an hour later hey we forgot to grab that I literally
told you right before you left not to forget it yeah we're all on the same team guys help us out
well um sorry go ahead what's that I was like a
part of that is in the morning you know people want to socialize in the morning while they're getting ready so they start talking about what they did
over the weekend and you know things get missed if they're in conversation and I know that that's what some of that is and you don't ever want to be the guy
just like stop talking about your life get your get everything together then you'll have time you know you don't want
to be that guy but um guys pay attention yeah I just um you know I know a lot of
our guys will go out and I'll go out in the warehouse and guys are loading up if they're loading up for a job for me and
they're out there cheater chatting I get it but I'll still say hey you got all the equipment you need you get
everything that you need for this job on the truck you know I have a nice little note in
the bottom of all the work order it says do you have everything you need question mark but I have like items items you
might need you know and then additional notes on top of that I I never had any of that
so I try to incorporate that and make it easier does it happen on every project no it don't but like for the ones that I
have all the information for yes it does yeah we just got you know continue to get better I mean if you were perfect at
everything um you know we wouldn't need to have this podcast right yeah we wouldn't have much to talk
about on this podcast you just be like well I'm great at this I don't know about it
perfect mine too until next week adios so
um the bottom line guys is and I think we can
you know the overall um discussion topic being efficiency and
productivity overall go into the job thinking about it that's what I would tell you go in thinking about how can I
be the most efficient um I I tell people all the time I'm not the you know I considered myself pretty
fast installer good quality fast installer it's not because I cut in
faster than the other guy it's not because I can run a row faster or cut
down a straight edge faster it's because of the way you set the job up to yeah as
soon as I'm done with one thing I know exactly what I'm going to to do like
there's no missed beats you go from this to this and you just Contin if you work
and don't stop moving for eight hours you're going to get a lot of done and it's it's more about the system
systematic planning and setup of the job more so than the you know ripping down a
wall cutting all fast I mean it's not why uh some crews are faster than others most the time it's just approaching it
from a systematic standpoint and they know what they need to get done you know yeah to keep everything moving so that
you're not wait I I hate waiting on something to dry if I'm waiting on something to dry I planned incorrectly
something should be drying while I'm doing something else or or while you're on lunch
something like at the end of the day you ought to
have patch on the floor somewhere before you leave or something especially you know on bigger job sites so you come in
the next day and you're not waiting for patch to dry it saves four hours tomorrow man like
people don't understand that and it's hard it's hard to
is that for everyone to share that mindset right because everyone's like oh man it's you know we're seven hours
seven and a half hours right now we're a half hour from eight hours let me just dink around for the last half hour and do something instead of saying you know
what I just work an extra half hour work eight and a half hours or nine hours today that means I can say you know four
guys times an hour tomorrow morning you know we can probably bang this job out in a half day on Friday and then
I'll be out early on a Friday instead of working and well it's so much more enjoyable I I gotta you know it's so
much more enjoyable to to work it when things are like moving in the right
um sequence I mean we sometimes you can't help it and you have to go out of sequence and it it's no fun I mean
plenty plenty of times but it's it's not it's not as enjoyable as getting in and the
things running the way they they should run and I I'd say to bring up mindset maybe
that's the key is like installers you need to understand that
you're healthy you're part of the team your trade partner we we say that term a lot Daniel you know has has really uh
used that term on this podcast a lot I've adopted it and stole it and trade
parts because you're a partner it means you're you're helping to get to the end result and not you're not a child you're
not an employee especially you know obviously I'm talking about Subs you're if you're a sub you're a trade partner
be a partner adopt the mindset of efficiency and productivity
your team member you're a member of the team is still the same same concept it's just you just have a different label
you're that's really it um yeah it's just the only reason I don't always lump them together is
um often you know our equipment manager is checking out all the equipment to them and they get it for free out of the
you know they they have all their equipment and stuff supplied for them so uh you know what we have found is
sometimes with Subs if they don't have one they they think they can oh I'll I'll figure it out well
figuring things out on a job site like figuring out how to get carpet that's a
hard rip up yeah you can cut it in three inch strips and rip it up by hand and take twice as long
or if you don't have the equipment and you have a work order and you've had
that work order for more than a day you ought to stop by Home Depot and pick up a little Eddie at least or come in and
rent one from us or go buy one like there's there's multiple ways to
plan and it I think the key is like adopting that mindset of go into it thinking how can I be as
productive and efficient on this job as possible I I think just thinking that way by
itself could help um you know a lot of subcontractors out really well I mean the reason I was able
to build a company off of being a sub and change from being a sub and then start selling materials because I did
make a lot of money subbing I made a lot of money subbing and I was very responsible with the money and put all
the money back and we've had previous podcasts on financial responsibility as
an installer but if you want to have a prosperous life you you first off make sure you're
getting paid what you should get paid for you know what you should but then after that like efficiency making sure
you have profitable that you're profitable and then being responsible with that profit you'll go buy a
Mercedes-Benz go buy a new ride on demo machine you know
um but you're forever gonna be rolling money right back into it right because because you're going to find new ways of
them um like if you're me you think that if you just bought something 10 years ago you just bought it but if you're dealing
you understand that wear and tear is like hey like we're gonna have to re-up on right like I can't believe we got to
change these vacuum filters that we bought the Vacuums in 2017.
yeah I'm really I'm really bad with that but you know because it it's still fresh on the mind like you know like we just
bought these we bought it like it's still brand new I I grew up using hand-me-down tools
um that lasted forever and now we got equipment that doesn't last a year without it breaking down or or needing
some kind of major maintenance so it's just like when that happens it's like what really already like well that
brings up that brings up a good another good point make sure your equipment's in good working order yeah even we have had
a problem with that like we'll tag it and we have the system and then it gets tagged but then gets put back in the
equipment room and then checked out to someone they don't notice the red tag and it doesn't work and you're out on
the job site they the sub rented a sander from us but grab the one that's
you know got the the pins sheared off uh the the safety
pin thing is shared off we got to put a new one in
there I don't I mean like all that costs time and money that nobody needs to be spending so check your equipment make
sure it's in good working order and keeping it in good working orders best best way to be able to just go grab a
piece and and uh Rock just so you know for future reference that little uh that
little connector the sherpen he's talking about they do make them in strictly alloy they're not covered in
plastic or hardened they only make those for their extreme machine the LA ones well I'm pretty sure you know somebody with a CNC machine get a strong one just
be careful with your wrists yeah be careful what you hit it's fine with your sander not so great
with the the scrape away ahead and a good screw in the in the or a good nail
in the concrete all right well I think we've uh you know again it's a it's a I think a
reiteration of some big common practices which is communication
and planning uh but hopefully you guys picked up some gyms here uh
if nothing else just start thinking about it think about efficiency productivity how can I be as efficient
productive today as possible wake up in the morning think that way get to the you know review your work orders if your
company gives you you know paperwork orders that's fine just review them ahead of time see if you can get them in
time to where you can properly plan um and you know if the company won't
give them to you then you know you got that's that's a little outside maybe you can have a conversation but knowing what
you're getting into before the day you start is probably best practice and then actually look at them consider what
because the company giving you a work order is just a labor work order uh like I said I've started to put
stop plan it out in your head on how you're
going to be the most productive in the day and and watch how it changes your business I promise you you'll make more
money uh if you approach it this way and you'll be more efficient and everybody
will be happier that's my opinion foreign yeah actually pay attention to it
because we we do the same thing he's rolled down there you know we got one of the older National 5700 which is blue
and then the new ones are gray he's like take the machine and then you walk out to the warehouse they already left
and the blue machine is gone now it's like they're they're different the battery has different capacity you know
so yeah uh rougher rip you gotta take the one that's gonna last longer it's
got a little more weight too and then and then I call and it's like hey why'd you guys take this machine oh whoa by
the time we looked at the work order we already had this one on the forklift so that's just the one that we took anyways
again look at your work order as early as you can so you can plan around
and ask questions like that's the other thing sometimes the company isn't as
thorough as they probably should be I know we failed there sometimes ask questions
um if you're on go career throw it in the chat if you work for me and you're listening to this uh or work with me I
should say throw down the work order chat hey man is this carpet gonna be a bear hey have
you tested this or is the job site ready like just communicate back and forth
and I think that there's there is definitely a little uh a larger window for commercial
um to have all those ducks in a row versus some of the residential where it's they shop they want it done they
find something they love and you're there you know within within a week or sometimes a couple days or sometimes the
next day um you know so you they're do you have a little more time to get
the right information in place especially for a large commercial job a large a lot of moving Parts yeah
Haley yep there's the skill to it so all right well gentlemen thanks again
appreciate everything every single week you guys being here um
looks like we got some guests coming on next week I believe uh gonna be discussing unit unifying the
flooring industry from uh you know a few different guests a few
different parts of the industry and continue the conversation from a big perspective of what we really uh care
about here on the Huddle these guys as much as anybody is improving our industry and seeing how
we can continue to kind of mend some of the Terrors that have happened over the last you know a couple of decades and
and uh hopefully push forward to a brighter future for everybody involved because
you look at the industry as a whole right we're all on the same team but everyone is so segregated into their
own markets that it's it's hard to pull together and
we I think we first realized that the first time we went to services and it's like man like this is an issue
but no one really talks about it and everyone is fine with hating everyone else because
you know if you're a flooring installer you're automatically the best person in the world yeah you're the best at what
you do hey I can learn a lot from everybody out there man I'd love to hear from everybody um yeah well I think we've all said
every week like reach out if you have any problems uh if you just want to talk
about your business there's been several guys have reached out on to me on Facebook messenger and I've helped them
out on you know uh a lot of times it's systems and
processes um that I help with but you know we're all in this together we're all here to
try to uh you know improve the industry overall here's our mascot this is the
good old farting dog oh gassy Bruce hi buddy
all right gentlemen well thank you so much for joining me this week um and we will see you guys next week
in between have a successful uh go at it and uh we look forward to chatting with you
next next Tuesday sounds good thank you see ya all right see you guys see everyone thank you bye
The Huddle - Episode 52 - Managing Common Installation Problems
This week the guys go over how to handle and manage common installation issues, on both the business and technical side.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family
welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday at 3 P.M Central discussing
topics that will help you maintain forward progress in your flooring career with me as always Mr Daniel and Jose
Gonzalez the preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan how we doing gentlemen good made it
well you're not in a truck driving across the Michigan somewhere so no no I
just got back actually so that's why I said I just made it so we almost caught you in the truck
almost well you've always pulled it off in one
manner or another I think I've spent a day or two uh of the podcasts and a
in a um vehicle myself yeah so
all right so today um episode 52 we're talking about
overcoming and managing common installation challenges
so you know with with a lot of our subject
matter here at go Carrera we're dealing with you know
the same real big issues are always going to continue to come up so talking
on the micro issues is always kind of a fun thing to do and and I think that's
kind of where we can find those nuggets so you know the challenges the managing
those challenges of installation so let's start with commercial because
that's what because that's what I love let's do yeah and that's what we do the
most of um so what are I'll throw a couple out there that we
have found um and and you get as deep as you want but I think that one of the biggest
installation challenges that we face is a company from the company side and I I
think it also affects our subs uh and their money is efficiency uh getting on the job site things not
being ready um uh you know moisture issues or
really you know the moisture issues you can deal with but it's really like driving three or four hours to a job
site having Crews show up and then the area not being ready that's never happened that's never happened before at
all right yeah only a time or two um so that that's a challenge and I know
it's a it's obviously affects both sides company and the installer the installer
goes all the way out there company goes off of the word of the site superintendent or Foreman or whomever
you know sends guys out there and they go all the way out they spend their
money and time and effort to go out to a job site and then it's not ready they can't install
or I love this one oh that won't take us about an hour to move
you know we have that moved in no time or things like that or other trades being in the
way and I guess that boils down to this accelerated schedules and things that
are happening on job sites I mean we got projects where owners are wanting to sign off on
warranties and every they don't care it's just like get our stuff in and
um so those are the biggest challenges or the the first challenge I'll bring up and and uh there's some ways around it
and go carrera's got some cool features coming out that can help you uh companies and installers to work through
this problem but um you know initially I've just really been pushing back on
um our superintendents I have I've had to work with our our PM team to like
realize that just because they a GC or a superintendent says I want you out here
on Wednesday that doesn't necessarily mean you do that you know you may say look
all right if you're not ready you know I I want proof that you're
ready um that's tough to get uh there's there's
some ways uh Goku is coming out with a video uh feature that allow you to link
that video link that uh superintendent in right out of the gate have them walk it you can mark up the the video As You
Go and show them what needs uh completed or done
um yeah it's going to be awesome but in the
meantime we're waiting on that awesome feature to come out I demoed it with you guys and it was that was a fun time from
one being on a plane to Vegas I think you were still in Michigan and I was in Wichita and we were all collaborating on
stuff it warranted a a phone call right after
the podcast was done because talking about it and visualizing and
then actually going through the process was totally different it was amazing yeah I might use a podcast just to do
you know a portion of it to get a little cells yet not that I don't we don't talk
about go career obviously we do but maybe show that feature um and let that get out there a bit but
in the meantime I think that you have to uh if you have to go out there as the
company which is what I've been telling our guys like we got to send one of our superintendents on or somebody you need
to save your crew that trip and and verify that it's ready yourself in some manner uh right now for us that's
honestly in person until we launch this feature we're doing the same thing we're
going out to the job site um what's your guys's approach to that because I know you do some work that
maybe outside you know most companies will do work you know two or three hours
circumference of their area yeah I think um same thing we've run
into the same scenarios where yeah we're ready we're ready and you know you kind of got to trust the process whether it's
a direct contract through ourselves or through another company you got a trusted line of communication and that
they're telling the truth um after a few times of showing up and
just kind of getting hosed where you show up with a cruise ah it has happened to you you show up with a crew of six
and like you said oh it's only gonna take an hour or two or you know or you
know what you guys can start in this uh 10 by 10 room right here while we clean this up you know you show up with six
guys and two trucks and material and uh you kind of start making the phone calls
and and it sucks to say it like this but you kind of start asking direct questions and giving
information very direct like hey dude if it's not ready I'm just letting you know like this is where what I'm bringing
this is uh what we plan on doing based off of our conversations and the schedule if it's not ready and I gotta
leave I'm not gonna wait two hours I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna charge you for the date I want to charge you for the entire crew it's not fair to them it's
not fair to me um so we've had those conversations yeah like an hour for them if you got
six guys seven hours for you yeah right yeah and
uh they understand it they they everyone acts oblivious to it
um why did they do it Jose why is it that I have walked on to so many job
sites when they say they're ready and it's not ready and then
um the the best I can tell them is you know most the time we'll just jump
in and start helping them move because we don't want to go home we want to work we're there to work and it's like what
what is this new I it won't it ain't new but it's getting worse like come to the
job no windows no HVAC wanting to sign off on LBT being
installed from China and I'm like you know how bad this can be
if I go down to years ago I remember when we used to have like I remember when deadlines were realistic right I
remember when you had a deadline like Hey we're start we're breaking ground we got 18 months for this project now you
know if you go back 15 uh 20 years ago a project that took 18 months they're getting it done in seven now
um from breaking ground to completion and turnover um they weren't until covert happened right until covert happened but I
it's just uh I am positive that the generals and the
contractors are doing their very best to stay on task and keep the schedule
um as planned but it's the same thing and and you know not not to stand up for
them but I know that they're relaying information and and things are not getting done in a
timely manner by other contractors or trades and um and I don't want to say it like this
but uh you know me being a subcontractor they they kind of trust other subcontractors
to hold up their end of the bargain um performance from a company who has
the majority of the other contractors who are in-house actually perform better their projects are in fact ready or they
exceed expectations but if it's a construction management company who's
managing other stubs and other trades you know that's man that's
I don't want to say it like that there's a disaster waiting to happen if one person falls off or if a material is is
back ordered a product the some of the durations the like the scheduling you
were talking about I mean it's almost like they've there's not
been a concerted effort to understand the lead times now on HVAC
and allow for that in your schedule like it blows my mind we do have three jobs
so we're on long before we should not be on them
they're willing to sign our paperwork and a couple of them I think they have the others are like well we we're
monitoring site conditions and keeping site conditions up to date or up to par with what the specs say and
I'm like you know are you keeping them on who's monitoring this stuff at night like you
got 12 hours of the you got half the hours of the day that it's no one's there really monitoring it so and it's
just frustrating Carlos is on LinkedIn he said about the the moving and the
hours and stuff uh do we put anything in the contract about charging per day
and I think that's you can put any anything that you want
when you send it to but they're always going to send you their contract back and then it's supersedes whatever you say anyways yeah it's always their
contract and you can mark it up and we do um but
most contracts State you know that the the GC is driving the the schedule and
that you agree that you're going to be there when when's schedule to perform the work
and you know
it's just it's like the planning before we get there because
I'll give you an example I'm doing a job did a bunch of classrooms and they spoon
fed us half the classroom at a time there was eight in this one wing and it took a we couldn't put six guys on that
we put one one guy in a Helper and
it took them all week to lay those six classrooms maybe even seven days
because it's just like this now you know it's an out of town job
it's still in Kansas but it's pretty far out now I've had this guy out of town to
get 400 yards of carpet and maybe 800
to a thousand square foot of lvt put in and This Crew you know they don't want
to stay out of town another eight days straight so now I gotta transfer in another crew
it's uh so what we did I'll tell you how we handled it is I started just deciding
that would push back to the GC and say no you have it ready this day and I am coming
with six guys I'm not coming with one or two because they tried that stuff that in this big main huge common area all
carpet tile and they want us to start in this corner and then kind of move this way and then they'll move stuff on to it
and all I was like No just get it ready when are you gonna be ready I'm not going to be there that they wanted us
there to last Monday I was like when are you gonna be ready like really right well we had HVAC on since Friday I said
well that's good because we've got several thousand here at the carpet league in that area so thank you finally
for getting that done but when are you going to be 100 ready with
all the trades out of that error well we can't wait till then I was like why when are you turning it over July
17th I'm talking about doing that entire area in a day and a half yeah right like all
of it base and the entire area in a day and a half and so we got to set up like
that and uh we'll see how that plays out but that's like it's almost like not being not being on
the job for elongated times as a flooring guy and then coming in for two or three days and just banging out a
thousand yards you know it almost seems like that I've been flirting with that a little bit and
it seems like it that's working at least on larger projects I mean so that's a
good schedule is my number one like pet peeve challenge for in my uh in my uh
assessment of like installation problems and then we can get into like actual technical insulation problems too and
some other stuff whatever you guys think but that's that's just a tough one for both sides too it's one that affects you
use the contractor and the installers yeah it affects everybody in
what you just said there too that scenario about getting the area done say two days
I know working with the people that we've worked with for for years it's easy for us to negotiate those areas and
do that because they they know that we're going to complete what we say we're going to complete if we say it's
going to take two days if they give it to me it's gonna take two days we'll get it done in two days you can take three or take three
um but I know a lot of other contractors have just been burned by other installers and you know that leaves a bad taste in their mouth and that's
where that's where they're thinking right they are you know everybody is always a worst case scenario
mindset when it comes to putting themselves in a bad spot and and that's where they dwell so
risk management yeah yeah and it's the same thing with uh if we were to hire
subcontractors or have our employees if something goes wrong you don't ever Bank on something going
wrong you bank on everything going perfect and if something something throws a wrench in your schedule for that day and you had an extra day
uh again ask for forgiveness at that point but I think it just goes back to the the conversation we had a few
podcasts back about you know communication right yeah um we just started doing work for uh GC
over here and it was our first project direct through them and I started showing up at at the
meetings you know they say they only want you there if it's like two weeks out well I started showing up six weeks out they're like you're not even you
don't even need to be here right now I said I need to make sure that you're gonna be ready to go when you say you're gonna be ready to go yeah that's a good
point maybe getting to job job meetings earlier that that's that's a good idea
is that literal that was yeah yeah and they asked me why I was there I said
because when this when we get this car my job trying to start installing it as soon as it gets in yeah my scope depends
on all these other guys and what you're telling them right now and then if all those fails like you're
talking about the owners of the sign off I don't I don't know if they relay all the correct information to the owners of
of the facilities or buildings because if you tell them
I don't know maybe I'm different if you tell an owner or tell me that I'm going to pretty much cut the life of a
material or or potentially cut the life of material in half because I'm trying to rush it and then I'm not going to get
the value out of my investment I'm probably just going to want to wait a little bit make sure it's done right
um but that's just me I just said no to a project where they wanted to put and I
talked to the manufacturer and it's cork flooring in a hot yoga studio
and they were like you know what this is this is the method that you can use it's
still not warranted but I've seen it perform and not fail so I'm like all right and then they're like as long as
you don't use the floating system you'll be fine and then they came back hey they're going to buy their own flooring
now so one I lost the sale of the material and then two they want to put floating in there and
I'm like no we're not going to do it and they just came back with well we're never going to use your company I said
that's totally fine it seems like we have different values and I'm not going to install a floor that I know is going
to fail wow
if they only knew you're just trying to prevent a lot of heartache and headache in the future plenty of companies it'll
just come throw in for you why why well we were the third company that he
contacted and I'm the one that got the the correct system in order to do it right everyone else just said they
weren't going to touch it and then as soon as I handed them this is what's going to perform for you
they were like no we want to do it this way well yeah find someone else to do it that way
yeah so I I think that uh
regardless of you know as hard as hard as we both both of our
companies work to maintain relationships and have good communication and stuff I
think it boils down to um
I I think one of the um things that can move the needle the most is what you said about going a
little earlier job site meetings you'll get a real good I think that's a good nugget that comes out of this is like
start going to your job site meetings a little bit earlier than you normally were would I mean like said two or three
weeks out we may start going but get there six weeks and you can see if the HVAC system
is running behind or if the you know and and our documents by the way that to
have someone sign off one of the things that I've learned through going to trade shows and talking
with like you know Jeff and some of the other attorneys that show up to these things is
send it to the GCE you get like our form requires signature by the GC architect
and owner if there's not an architect there's always a GC and always an owner
and if this happens to be the same sign it twice I don't care right there's
there's usually more than just one party involved so we write it up in a way and
where we're trying to be very clear with them and I just give this advice to anybody
who if that's the final straw and you have to eventually what do you do your GC is saying I'll sign whatever you send
me I want you on site next Tuesday like contractually
you're obligated to be there when the GC says and so you send them this document
uh a few pieces I would advise everybody to have list every single possible
failure that can happen right and that's where like I was talking about before
the you have a contract and we're talking about after the contract because once you're in that contract it's
it seems like it'd be a little bit easier to be strong-armed into doing something that you don't want and you
just have to make sure that your bases are covered because you you can't really say well I'm just going to walk away from this job because
you had a contract yeah not without breach of contractor right and that's a major issue now you're in litigation or
arbitration you want to avoid that or they'll just supplement you and then they they'll spend all your money plus
the income and send you a bill for it so there's once you've signed the contract
you're kind of stuck and um if you get in that situation like I said make sure you list every single
possible failure Point whether it's gapping curling adhesive seepage
maintenance issues Complete Flooring failure trip hazards all the stuff we
list as potential failures and then we even list like
common um how did I say it com like the ones that
I anticipate happening on your site most notable common and most notable
failures and I started listing those like these are probably gonna happen on your job
just know that these don't call me uh to come fix I'll come and tell you
how much it's going to cost to fix you know and I put that language all the way through it so that's just a kind of a
sidebar side note so um what other types of deals we got site conditions and job being ready what
other types of installation challenges um well you did touch on moisture right
because that's a huge thing and one of the the biggest challenges is teaching people how to spot moisture issues I
think because once you see something underneath it could be look like wet adhesive but it
may not be necessarily even be a moisture issue right because you can have like a plasticizer migration and
stuff that'll eat the adhesive too and it's not necessarily a moisture issue or anything but
um baby sister was real proud of herself she was on a hospital project one time and there was a bunch of efflorescents
and and stuff like that and she caught it and um thankfully that the the company that
we were working for was like yeah let's fix this now so that way we don't have to later and it it was quite a hefty ad but it
got done right so being able to Spot It and then also talking to your reps
because you need to know the systems to fix it before you and we touched on this before right
don't just present the problem you got to say this is the problem this is the
solution it makes it a lot easier a lot easier for that you know and and that moisture
issue does apply to residential too so like we had an issue where we had a situation where there was an
add-on and it was an old garage that they had added a room over and converted it and this was another Remodel and
stuck to say when we walk in there and I'm looking I'm like was this a garage
I don't know and then we asked the homeowner uh yeah I think it was
no Vapor Barrier so you know it's a garage they didn't have to worry about it so you had to drop that that Obama on
them for the ads too but it's just a
putting yourself in a situation to understand uh that there's educational
classes out there and programs to to help you dive deep into that so you can
spot it a lot easier instead of having to go through all a lot of formal testing just to get the science behind
it look at this let's I've seen this before or I know what that that looks like let's just make
sure um we took a couple classes for that I mean
I mean we take a couple classes for almost everything but well
what are some common signs that you guys
like when you talk about moisture what do you what is the first thing you're looking for when you walk on a
job site you you regardless of you may not be suspecting
but in our field we're always looking for moisture so what are some of the key First Signs so um for me like walking
into a brand new construction site a commercial site just visually I you know I do the old
man Shuffle right feel for imperfections in the concrete as I'm walking and talking but visually I look for
inconsistencies in the concrete for a visual um you know knowing uh spotting what
slabs report at different times and um what ones were exposed to the elements during the time
of the poor and things like that like if you pay attention to that you can see some of the inconsistencies which might
raise some red flags and not red flags like oh we're gonna have to do this but you're going to ask questions and
[Music] some of the people like to answer them some of them don't but you will get your
answers regardless um if you're asking the GC but some of the guys around will say yeah this is
what happened you know we we were pouring the concrete the sun was out it was too hot and it started you
know curing on us really quick we couldn't couldn't do it fast enough or it rained we were doing it and started
pouring down it came down we couldn't cover it on time or you know no roof when we did this this is a lot of different
uh you always try to look at the envelope to make sure that they have Windows Doors and roof is the building
envelope closed if not you're likely going to have some problem then HVAC and
then when you look visually like you can kind of tell that darker
concrete and if you're paying attention you know I've I've called it plenty of
times walking on a job and they're like yeah we better run some early moisture test on this one you know you can just
kind of see it all around puddles here and there uh I've seen leeching up under
the onto the uh sheetrock wall oh yeah on Prime to walls and you can see it
leeched up and I'm like okay this has had water at some point and maybe it's flooded or it's coming through the
concrete and up that drywall or something and so you start investigating and
the the main thing is if you're I mean if you're wondering at all
you better call somebody as an installer and say hey man has this been moisture testing you know like your cruise going
out like if this has what was the reading because it looks because they can change so
having your crew understand that just because you moisture tested two weeks ago uh or 72 hours ago if you're following
the guidelines you're supposed to do it within 72 hours of installation well
can change in 72 hours real quick too you know especially if they don't have proper drainage or something like
that and it is coming through the concrete um we try to look at a lot of those things but
obviously the best thing to do is toss down a moisture task right and then I we I do have to explain
to them because a lot of a lot of people know now about the RH tests and they think that all right this
is the only thing you need but like when there's uh I was just on a
came in early to talk to him and I was like is there a vapor barrier underneath this and they're like no this
was all warehouse space I was like oh yeah we're going to need some moisture testing he was like oh yeah we'll just drop some Pro have someone drop some
probes and I said and you got to do some calcium chlorides too because you know you don't understand that you're not
going to see moisture vapor and unless you cover it in in some cases
right because then the moisture has nowhere to go I said once I yeah once I put carpet
tile on here it's non-porous man it's the moisture is just going to collect underneath and just educating people
about it like that they actually understand they were like 100 we'll get it done
yeah because you can have 75 RH in it and it passes with flying colors but you
can still have high Vapor emissions off 75 80 percent you know so doing both tests although I
admittedly don't do it every time at the facility looks pretty good there's a vapor barrier and the Rh test comes back
at 75 80 85 depending on the adhesive
um we typically overall with that
probably not the best I got I got the the nod of like you better go the next
step mister sir you know to say that we've done it 100 of them uh as well we'd be lying right like like you said
there's a there's a level of comfort and if it's questionable then then yeah by
all means but if you're going in and it you're getting consistent readings and
everything's on the lower levels and you don't feel that there's a need you know you can trust your gut a little
bit but you know just follow all the standards if you feel you need to to do it then
then do it and if you don't don't say Jose said that on the podcast or or Paul
said you don't need to do it if you feel comfortable just well to the contracts and every contract they have it in there
that you need to follow the ASTM standards and they that was straight up put f710 right in anything
resilient well that'll lead to our next challenge which is installers knowing it ASTM f710
and or reading the installation instructions
and really understanding what you're installing um
we've had it happen even recently where specialized products happen to be put in
a specialized way you don't just glue it glue the entire area and start laying
lvt it's a wet set adhesive on this particular job and
got out in front of this guy and it's like dude you can only spread what you can install in 30 minutes it wasn't
clean like this is dead you gotta scrape all this stuff it's gone in fact
last two rows and scrape that up too then reapply what you can install in 30
minutes [Music] is very confusing to some people and
well the manufacturers don't make it any easier some of their debt descriptions is like between five and 75 minutes and
based on slight conditions yeah yeah based on side conditions touch the adhesive if it transfers but not too
much then you know that is exactly how they sounded like in for both
I'm like dude just give me some clear Direction here
but is it little or is it no like yeah like is no okay one line or two lines
like I my fingertip is I can get five lines on there but little to know like which one is it yeah
yeah there's a so I think the manufacturers make that even more difficult but open times and and staying
informed like the cruise it's hard for a company to then get all the crews
informed on stuff that we get to know I wish there was like you know
Facebook's terrible for it but it'd be nice if there was like a just a quality form of like new installation guidelines
as they come out just a thread you know and it's split between like carpet
resilient Hardwood and tile and like when a new tile grout
comes in it's on a bulletin under that that form you go in there and you can look at you know new product releases
new new ways of installing you know shortcuts found by experts that
kind of stuff is that what floor cloud is planning on doing in the future
you know I don't know if that um you know they do a lot of
what floor Cloud does really good the real light in my opinion key value is
you get to load in the products that you're doing on the job site so it'll do all that figuring for you
um as far as um product releases and things like that
I hope so they'd be primed to do so in their with all the aggregation of that
material data they'd be best suited properly in the industry at least
currently uh for that information to be shared
um but I tell you it'd be it'd be nice just to have because you I
guess you can go you know what's an installer gonna do he's going to Google it if he doesn't no
and and what hey they should Google it whether they do or not is yeah we want
them to to Google it if you do not know we tell them like Google is free use it
like or or reach out you know we get we get calls all the time hey I've never worked with this before
and then you know I can say this is what we did the last time but let me I still
need to look up to see if anything's changed and uh when when Crystal and I were down in Georgia I I think I brought
that uh question up about uh a QR code for a live scan on a bucket and and immediate updates but it would be
industry-wide right and um I won't say the manufacturer but they said that
their website is updated as everything happens so in order to find out you got
to go there and check it out um which is okay but you know not everyone's gonna do that all the time
um but if if there were alerts if there were a way to become a member of that manufacturer and receive alerts uh to a
specific app or anything like that with material updates or changes that would be great well at the very least
Google it like yeah I know that sounds pretty simple but pick up your pick pull
out your phone GTS Google this
[Laughter]
we don't need another Paul mishap let me just type it for you guys
all right so we talked about side conditions uh moisture issues and kind
of identifying those early on from an installer standpoint what do you
guys do you guys deliver all your materials to the job site or do they come and pick up from your
Warehouse both yeah both because we like just like
you we have our in-house and then we also have Subs so like yesterday I met
someone at because we're doing some residential projects so I'm Adam on site brought the stuff out there
so that way he can install it today yeah so I asked that question because
um I I went through Facebook to find a lot of griping and the griping that I was I
was just trying to see like all right well this is a bunch of installers and this next podcast is on installation
challenges what are they what's what's being said salesman now it's it's heavily skewed
residential on most of the Facebook stuff so but so salesmen in general
selling stuff that they don't know themselves how to not only how to install but that
it's the right product for the job now I think that's more on residential because in commercial laws you guys know you got
more like professionals picking it at least to an extent an architect or
designer who's been doing it especially seasoned people they kind of understand you're not going to be putting carpet on
a pool deck or something you know like you're not doing these silly things but
salesman that a residential shop especially like the if they're they stay
there and they never even visit the the client's house or anything man
that seems to be a pretty big grade salesman selling things that it's not the right fit and the installer is like
I don't want to install this in here I don't think it's going to last I don't think it's going to work and and then
you look in the comments and it's everything from walk away okay well that's
those guys that just kind of want to put in a room and say is that your answer to everything just to wipe your hands clean
and walk away I mean I don't know that that's the best solution maybe but then
you could call the salesman and they just say install it and you're like and you feel like you're stuck between a
rock and hard place then so you know I also understand their side of
wanting to just walk away uh but the comments go from everything from just walk away to
you know write a letter stating that you're uncomfortable with the installation send them an email right
from your phone I thought that was a pretty good suggestion like hey send them an email and say I just want you to
know I'm completely uncomfortable installing this this flooring in this situation I don't think it's the right
product from my experience per our conversation earlier you told me
to continue on anyway I just wanted this to be noted that I am doing so with uh
you know not rioting but like great Prejudice
right and making sure that that you communicate with the sales team before you communicate with uh the homeowner or
end user is is really good too because maybe there's something there that they didn't know they overlooked and they can
find some resolve right away before everyone goes oh this material blah blah
blah I can't do this crap you know because then you're ruffling feathers you don't need a ruffle so it's about professional yeah guys I mean you you
know the old same loose lip sync I mean yeah you know just griping about it
on site for everybody to hear isn't the best solution either call your call your salesman or your project manager whoever
back in your company and talk it through with them but I it looks to me like
there there's almost this feeling it seems like they're they're truly between a
rock and a hard place like the materials on site the homeowners out of the house the only day you're going to do it you
go tell the homeowner you're not going to do it you've just caused a shitstorm for lack
of a better word um they almost feel forced and I thought
that at least putting your um your reluctancy to do that project in
writing and sending that to your salesman uh is at least put some level of risk management for
the installer so I think that's a good thing to do like if it ain't right and you know it ain't right voice your
opinion and that way you have some level of protection when you if something was
to go wrong and also another another thing too like um early on
um in our careers we I started being proactive you know once I hit a couple projects where there was
information that was left out or no one knew or the salesperson had no knowledge
of um I started being proactive and asking those questions well what about this
area and this area right here and why are we doing it with this method and not this do they understand that this might
happen in this and then people kept telling me like you ask a lot of questions I'm like well I hope you're
taking those because this should be your there should be your template for the next project so that way I don't have to
ask you these questions if you're taking notes so you learn the next time yeah and seriously that was a real
conversation and that wasn't wasn't doing it to be to be an ass that's all I was doing it because I
didn't want to show up to someone's home or someone's business on a project ready to rock and then as soon as I'm there 10
minutes in have to say excuse me Mr homeowner excuse me Mr business owner or
Mrs I I got to step outside for a minute like they're going to understand the body language right because you're going to get in there nobody hides that nobody
walks in and goes oh this looks great hey I'll be right back they walk and they go hell oh no oh um excuse me I'll
be back yeah um so it came back to the communication thing right it all falls back to the
same thing and are you dealing with a salesperson who's 10 years in 20 years in or two years in right
yeah salesperson is somewhat your audience as well you have to know who you're dealing with and know it matters
yes it does matter 100 x installer never install the day in their life like
there's we work with a gentleman uh Bob known him for 25 years now and
X installer like that dude he is on it and if he forgets something it's very rare
um but he's also that salesman that if he does forget something he's like just do it right I'll cover it yeah
his jobs are real nice because uh he's either got like 200 extra yards or he's
two boxes short [Laughter] it's not that bad
so the the what other challenges because you know you got your day in day out like
technical stuff and I think that's really boils down most times to training
and equipment do you have the right training to do it and do you have the right equipment to do it both of those
boxes are checked really the bulk of the problems or what we're talking about now
Manpower you you don't ever know when someone's gonna have an accident someone's going
to be sick or someone's going to have an emergency um that that's always going to be a
challenge right and the smaller the company the more it affects you um you know because
if you have five people working in your company and you lose one person you just lost 28 of your Workforce uh yeah if you
look at it like that uh and is
it's just one of the things that you have to learn how to deal with like I I think uh I still have a hard time dealing with
that but learning to you can only control what you can control or hey like hey
griping about it for two hours in the morning and making a big deal about it isn't solving anything you have to set
that aside and and be part of the solution not the problem and figure it out
yeah so do you have means of when somebody gets
hurt or you know gets sick one day what what's your first thing
[Music] a stage last week you know
um I'm gonna be installing carpet tomorrow you know we employ 40 some people at my company and have uh
you know 60 70 Subs on top of that but still not partially because I still
actually enjoy the stuff I know that a lot of them you know I still do but the
other part of that is uh I enjoy teaching so I'll have my uh a bunch of
my leads with me on this job and just teaching them making sure they understand how to properly set up a job
because most of I'm not fast because I can cut faster
than another guy I'm fast because I know how to set up a job to where it flows in
a manner that everybody stays busy very fluid-like yeah that's what I like doing
when I walk on a job is make sure that it's set up and you know patching starting here and there and there
pull out take measures start and put down lay lines while the patch is going down and doing things in a sequence that
ends up getting the the job done faster but so proper setup of the project is is
where I I like to but yeah sometimes you gotta knee pad up I do think communication is another piece to that
it's like call it like you said and it's funny how a lot of these things go back to good
communication but you know if you're not going to have a guy because someone's sick and you you can't
you know back film with another guy well then what do you do other than call your
superintendent and your project manager or your homeowner and you're like Hey we're going to be down a couple guys uh
we'll we'll look at the whole schedule and the entire team and say what jobs
are not in trouble at all is and can we pull from yes and state and maintain
over there but not maybe knocking out of the park to knock it out of the park over here so sometimes just
communication and scheduling um on large construction sites pushing in a
day or two is not the end of the world pushing Miss Jones kitchen that she moved out of we actually had one of
those this this this week right last week last week last week uh um our guy that we had scheduled to do the carpet
um had a definite family they need to deal with and it put him a day behind he ended up losing a day of work and he got
put a day behind and he was trying to stay on task but it
just it couldn't catch up and it's just like at that point it's like hey dude don't worry about it man we got it calm
collected and then Susie hang up the phone's like oh man we got I don't know how we're gonna do it
you know what um uh baby sister she's a miracle worker sometimes she stepped up and you know
we got everything done everything uh it went smooth it pushed us a little bit behind to start the week yesterday but I
went in the field yesterday and and today I got put behind by a family emergency this morning so
uh well there's always something gonna come out that's why you got to be skilled at these uh problem resolutions
because I mean the fact is it's every week I would venture to say every single week
we have somebody sick not show up uh you know some some manner of
something not going the way you planned it to go right so we got to just be
experts from from our side uh of the coin from the company side at
solving those problems and moving guys around like puzzle pieces almost like chessboard to where's your best next
move yeah um so yeah I mean I guess at the end of uh
you know we're talking about installation challenges though do do you feel like
the big whether you feel like is the biggest
problem you would like like if you could build the just perfect subcontractor
what is that subcontractor look like and and how how is it that their approach
addresses some of these issues we've talked about does that make sense like if you could build the perfect sub what are they
doing that solves a lot of your problems showing up when they things are scheduled punctuality
um willingness to continue their education so that way you don't have to babysit all the time uh right and make sure they
have the information you trust that they have the information um
some sort of a middle to ground higher level of professionalism
um someone who you trust to to have a
great communication on site with clients with you with your staff
um able to articulate issues um
I mean so communication professionalism yeah
um from uh uh maybe a hard skill or more of a uh you
know like equipment the right tools yeah that that that and
obviously the right training so training tools
um communication professionalism yeah and
and some of the other things are blanketed in in those right there too like the Danish reliability
uh you know punctuality stuff like that it's kind of blanking it in the professional no that probably gets blanketed into actually caring about
your customer and who's going to be who's walk and you can tell your customer Flooring by who's going to be
walking on the damn thing when it's all said and done and caring about their experience on
your on the floor you installed so you know that they're going to be on it on time some of the best subs I know are
the ones who actually care that the owner is going to get in their building on time well you know
that if it doesn't just care about getting your job done for you but they
actually care about the owner getting in on time the school's starting on time they feel the pressure with you that is
exuded on to you as the company from your general contractor your homeowner they feel the pressure with you without
you having to apply the pressure you know what I'm saying like that guy that just gets he gets on site he knows he
lost a day he calls you hey man I lost about a half day because of you know
this they cut these saw joints in on a eight by eight grid instead of 12 by 12.
so I had three quarters you know 30 percent more solid joints to patch but
I'll catch you back up tomorrow that kind of guy that just gets it that's been the most beneficial and he
seemed that those types of Crews seem to be naturally more equipped and more
trained yeah buried their ads on to how Daniel is how
we used to be is you know in in our today saves three hours tomorrow right and if you look at a project where
you're there for a month that three hours that you save every day or four times a week four days a week it
ends up at the end of the project because a deadline's a deadline you can't make up 24 hours in in eight hour
day in 24 hours yeah yeah yeah right yeah yeah and
so so any any advantage in install installer or
installation crew could get by Saving Time for the next day is Super beneficial and I know it's hard to view
it that way um as an employee I mean I've always viewed it that way as an employee anyway
but I know that we've probably Cut From a Different Cloth but it's investing your time and not spending it
right yeah it sounds like you know you invest that one hour and you you get any
investment you expect to return on your investment or an Roi well if you're rois three hours
like your example that Daniel had well there you go invest that hour because
it's going to pay you three hours back every day or maybe an hour a day on a week-long job you just you just got
given back seven hours of your life almost so and not only that is hey you
work a couple long days Monday through Thursday Fridays ends up being a shorter day because you save some of those hours
um you know and uh for for some people the sooner you get a project done the sooner you can roll into another one
um I don't know very many successful individuals or installers that
like to work three days and take three days off right I don't I was told by a
guy last week that was in my office here at go Carrera that uh you know down south they like to work
three to five hours a day and Fish on Fridays and I'm like how does he how do
you get any work done we we worked in um Oklahoma and Iowa on some commercial
projects long ago and we went there and with a small crew me Daniel Charles
who's with us again um and some other installers and we went there and banged out these movie theaters like boom
the local guys came up to me it's like can you guys please stop working like that and I thought it was a joke
I was like what are you talking about because of you guys they're gonna expect us to do that and we're not trying to do
that and it's like well you know I'm from Michigan dude there's a reason they called me here
from Michigan um and I'm trying to get back home to my family uh so the sooner I get these jobs done
the sooner I get to go home and I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary I'm just working like what I feel is normal
um and that was that was a rather odd conversation because he was serious and I was like oh
and that was a long time ago that was like 20 years ago yeah I still remember like it was yeah that's still a great
story hey dude did you slow down it was a real conversation
that's funny well I I
think that our our time together every single week always turns into
you know diving deep on stuff that kind of has a similar tone
yeah and that that and why is that because the big issues are still the big
issues the big issues of these accelerated schedules and trying to get
work done in less time and lower budgets and just all this constraint causes all
this heartache really I mean if you have ample time to get I mean most GCS know if you gave them
like a bid and we're gonna award the the job to the GC based on
who we think is most um reasonable on their time frame not
the fastest but the closest to actual reason and that's how you awarded bids then a
GC could put the pieces in they know how to build a building the problem is they agree to these condensed schedules that
these owners want from them which I love all you owners out there but at the same time when you constrain
those schedules I had a conversation with a very large client of mine in the same regard and
we do a ton of work directly with them and then we do some work through a GC or several GCS that on bigger projects for
and he pulled me aside we I had given a talk actually on concrete moisture
which is like the management people the uh you guys probably have a local ifma
chapter there uh you might look into it if everybody else but it's uh iafma so
it's like the international facility management association or something like that anyway I was given a talk about
concrete moisture and my client I had never met he was the head guy at the
facility came up and said hey I never met Stewart and we started having a conversation he's like you know you kind
of had a little bit of a struggle on that last job because I'm not used to having any problems with your company
and it's like well I understand but just so you understand I won't throw
anybody under the bus but when you have a someone else in the middle like a general contractor who dictates our
schedule you're not getting the same level of what we provide you when we're working directly with you because we
tell you we're going to be there on this day then we could be there on this date there's nothing in our way
from being there and Performing the job the way we see it but when we get to a job that has a GC involved and someone's
in the way and we can only do this little area or we can only work for two to three days then we gotta leave well
then the GC calls and wants us back uh they call on a Monday and they want us
back there on a Tuesday where we can't get the same crew that started the job and it's like it brings a lot of other
Dynamics so I just wanted you to understand that so I explained that all to him but those are real life problems
that if those we're always going to have to be Masters at communication
at problem solving and and being agile I think those those are we just have to be
good at it you know um yeah I don't see those really big problems changing overnight
you know I don't think any of the big problems will ever change overnight even if you're prepared for it the night before
yeah it's every GC is going to be a little bit
different everyone's going to react a little bit different uh everyone not everyone is always going to see it
from from our perspective and we're not always going to see it from theirs and you know
I really enjoy working with the companies and the individuals that we've had the pleasure of knowing for a decade
or more because I don't want to say we don't get our way but we come to an
agreement a lot sooner a lot quicker right and we come to an understanding
and yes even though you can't really hear my voice but they really hear the
words right and and they understand the systems now and and we appreciate everyone or the return business and
understanding of what we're trying to accomplish yeah I I mirror that same to to all the
clients we've gotten to work with you know but to maybe piggyback a little bit you know
all that stuff all those variables every job site's different every Project's
different with a different GC well you can have the same GC with the different pm and different super and it's a whole
new experience you know so all those things all those variables are always
there it's what I love and hate about the the construction industry in general
I love the fact that not every day is the same but sometimes I hate the fact
you know right why can't I have just an easy day today well because they all every single day in the flooring
industry in particular but in construction is a a new day with a new set of of problems to solve so you know
if you don't like problems this isn't the industry for you you gotta like to find and resolve problems I think
there's still more good days than bad days though I will say that even though it doesn't seem like it when the bad
days hit the good days still far out number of the bad days everyone amen admit it or
not yeah I agree well gentlemen we're at four o'clock believe it or not
um you mean five o'clock Five O'Clock Somewhere
we do we burn burn through our our hour um just a recap good communication
was a big part if you're an installer showing your professional uh
professionalism by being on time you know being Dependable uh what is Dependable it means people can depend on
you if I can depend on you actually caring about the client and the client
isn't necessarily always the person that you're working directly for it's the person that's the end user that's going
to be using whatever you're putting down yeah yeah not just the guy that's paying you or the the company that's paying you
100 is going to be used in that space you care about them you'll you'll pretty
much do a good job because I mean you can get through a lot of stuff if you're caring about the right stuff you know the right thing so
yeah and you know I I can't say it enough you're when you guys brought up communication that's always a lot of
problems and Link with go Carrera if you haven't seen it and you're in the audience you're going to be blown away
when we start demoing and showing video of this stuff uh it'll tremendously help
with the communication piece uh I've got a few more rounds that I got to do to you guys I want to do a couple more I'll
show you some things we've tweaked so we've got a few more a few more tests with the with everybody but um yeah I'm
excited to roll that feature out to everyone and and and hopefully save everybody some time and money so if
you're watching it on YouTube consider giving us a like And subscribe I know we're not uh talking about AI all the
time although we did get into that last week we're not we're not necessarily talking about the most interesting
subjects on the planet but we are talking about other people which may be the most interesting so you know we're
talking about Tradesmen and women who put food on their table by putting in you know by using the skills in their
hands and the talent in their brain and so um I think all of our our mission
here is to elevate the the Tradesmen you know and uh what they do for all of us
so the building you're you're working in um the house you're sitting in
um the car you drive is likely done by a skilled person and so value what they
give to our society and value what they give to to you and your family so with
that we'll sign out you guys got any last words no thanks thanks everyone for joining
all the time we like we get a lot of the same return people on live and stuff like that so
um actually I have I have a question just to throw it out there for people to answer what can sales team who give you guys
the projects do better on their end to make sure um that your checklist is is checked and
marked for what you expect I would like to see some ideas maybe we can um
throw it in the comments and if you guys have any suggestions on topics or things you'd like us uh to to discuss or bring
an expert on we can do that as well um but if you have any I anything that
you'd like to see tag us on in your group uh tag the guys uh in your
Facebook group about a issue we might just post this as the question what topics uh on the Facebook
um on our Facebook page and and maybe throw it in the groups as well but if you have any suggestions for topics or
things you'd like for us to go over even if it's very specific on a product on how to install a certain product even if
we don't know we can get you the right resource and get you guys plugged in so reach out to us if we can help and we
will see you guys next week all right see you all right see you guys thank you
The Huddle - Episode 51 - How to Market your Flooring Business
The guys are joined by Daniel Mascovitch from Flooring Pro's Marketing (https://flooringprosmarketing.com) to discuss how to appropriately and successfully market your flooring business.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey flooring family welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday 3 P.M
Central we're talking with a very special guest Daniel from flooring Pros with me as
always is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred floors out of Grand Rapids
Michigan and so they're Daniel there's no confusion that's skinny Daniel I'm
fat Daniel you're looking great fat Daniel come on thanks man
these are these are the the names we came up with in Vegas so
yeah next time I see you in person I hope that we can't you can't even tell the difference between us there you go
I'm I totally Embrace Pat Daniel I've been fat my whole life so well that means you got to gain a little bit there
or skinny Daniel So today we're going to be talking about you know marketing your your service
whether that's your full-service flooring company uh retail commercial some ideas built around that uh some
stuff I'm working with flooring Pros on um uh in that regard as well as if
you're an installer how can you start to leverage um and I mean you have no idea how
powerful it can be if you can leverage digital uh marketing for your flooring
service whether uh like I said whether you're a full pledge flooring company but as an installer you're truly setting
yourself apart because 99.5 of installers do not Market
themselves very effectively so that's obviously one of the things that go career does but we only do it
from an aspect of promoting your profile once you're a go Carrera installer this
is uh outside that feel free to use any of the Nuggets you learned today about marketing yourself
um whether you're a member of go career or not this is just all value and we're
going to touch on everything from some chat GPT stuff AI stuff effective
marketing uh you know the challenges that uh installers face
um as well as multiple different ways that you might be able to set yourself
apart in the digital world so kicking things off the biggest problem
that I see is from a marketing perspective with installers they simply don't know what
to do most um most will post on their feed they're
you know in their socials like their completed work or something or some of them have gotten pretty creative on
creating uh short form reels or such of
there of the progress of the installation and those are all cool but if you could drive traffic to that stuff
and to your social pages to get more eyes on that you can really set yourself apart even
within the installers that are currently doing some of this if you're not doing
it taking some prideful pictures of your work and
um even the pro the process of you doing a project is is a a pretty cool way to
show people what we do reality TV is a big thing reality in
general we like to see what if other people are are having the same struggles we are uh and that's what really draws
us to reality television and that's a form that's what social media can be for you is your own reality TV channel
so um that being said effectively marketing let's start with uh just your I'm gonna
say like the two to three man crew that's out and about Daniel uh and I'll
I hate to use skinny Daniel fat Daniel in this one yes so
if you don't use it we're all going to be confused so so I'm actually going
flooring Pros uh and then well that that'll be my separator so I gotta call
you guys he's FP Daniel and we are PF Daniel yeah yeah see that's even
confusing yeah that's even more well I got an app yeah I got four Pros marketing you know I got DM there too so
I could uh yeah that is confusing yeah yeah there we go
um so I've you know been working with a number of flooring uh retailers and installers over the last few years here
just getting to know their businesses and what their struggles are with online marketing as well as over the last 10
years working with various business owners in various different Industries and I think it really comes down to you
know marketing works when you have the right message getting to the right people right so determining what that
message is and who those right people are is going to be really really important so once you determine that
message you really have to understand okay so if you're an installer uh who are you going after are you going after
higher end customers and consumers if that's the case what do they care about
they care about quality they care about making sure that you have a good tight process for the installation that you're
using good products you're gonna you're gonna come on time you're gonna you know finish the project when you you know on
schedule you're going to clean up after yourselves and things like that those are the things that that they really
care about if you're targeting that audience some people might care about they want
to support local as opposed to big box stores so maybe that's your message right and some people really just care
they want the cheapest floor because they just can't afford something that they want like good floors for
affordable prices there's kind of a counter argument there too right like if you want the cheapest don't call me kind
of thing yeah yeah and that that does work if that's the if
that's their message right if they're they're trying there's some people who don't want the cheapest and some people do right and some people want the
cheapest one they think that they can get the cheapest at Home Depot or some of these big box stores but in fact you
guys can get better prices sometimes as an independent installer right so
um it really just depends you have to own in on okay what who do I want to get after like what is my message and then
once you understand what your message is like how do I get in front of those people is that their first step Daniel uh at
Flora flooring Pros is that the first step is like ask yourself this question
and write down the answers like what what does your client want and just take
some time in developing that I mean can you talk through a little bit of the process that you use to pull that out of
people yeah so that's called a customer Avatar right so um I think that marketing doesn't work when
you're trying to be everything to everyone right um so if you know that you want to be
known or perceived as a specific type of flooring company and you know
that there's a specific type of customer that would look for that flooring company then be that own it uh right so
you want to understand who you do want to work with and I think at the beginning when you're we're all starting business you know I know I've made that
mistake you're taking on projects that are not right the right Fit For You
So eventually after you kind of work for a few years you understand hey these are
good clients and these are bad clients so once you have an idea of what a good client is
develop that customer Persona develop that Avatar understand you know what's important to them their challenges their
frustrations with the you know contractors or you know flooring installers or buying flooring or
understanding flooring you know and then hater your messaging to them on all your
platforms and I'll talk about different Platforms in a minute here but um
you know that's really important I think that's the first step is really just understand okay like who do I want to
get in front of who do I want to be and how do I be that that company to that person to that
ideal customer so as a as a
subcontract installer or an installer uh there's
a few avatars I can think of from a customer base like you have if you're in
the commercial world you have your commercial flooring companies if you're in the retail world uh maybe
you're in both you got the retailer you also have your uh end user that you go
direct to and those are distinctive different ways that you're going to Market yourself
um the so it's like really important to figure out if you're doing work for a
retailer but you also do work directly with the homeowner you gotta mesh those somehow I would assume through this
process or have two distinct ways of marketing to them is that correct or would you would you recommend like you
mesh them because many I know many installers work for for a store of some sort whether it's a flooring contractor
a Commercial contractor or a retailer and they may work for uh homeowners uh
directly who went to say floor decor and bought their tile and just need somebody to install
the answer depends it depends on what they want to achieve it depends on resources it depends on budget
it depends on what they have already um like ideally
you know if you're an established business you have a website and a page dedicated on on you know a page
dedicator and website for each of those personas so for your residential projects for your commercial projects
things like that for your retail as well so um depending on
who you're trying to go after and if it's multiple people then just you have to have different messaging for each of
those segments and then you have to have marketing campaigns and and different kind of materials for each of those
segments as well because what an ideal uh commercial client would want or an
ideal commercial partner right if you're trying to get in front of more say designers or Architects or you know
property managers they care about different things than a you know homeowner and looking to redo their
floors right so uh you just need you can have all that stuff on a page you just have the messaging has to be different
for each of those Target audiences right gotcha yeah so yeah that's what we see too like uh
like we have everything set up different like that but what ends up happening is we don't push residential at all but
they see all of our commercial work and they give us a call anyway they're like hey we see your work over here do you do
this as well those are the the Gimme jobs when they're basically tired of
dealing with everyone else and just wants someone that they believe
they they see us that we know what we're doing so they just use that to to get us
in there yeah that's a great great part about flooring is that it's a visual
it's a visual crap right like you're talking about the images and the before and afters and the you know the still
photos and stuff like that of the pro progress of a job people like that because the consumer isn't stupid
consumer knows what they want consumers doing research like I've talked to a lot of my following clients I said like what
percentage of customers who are coming into the showroom know what types of floors they want but
again she's like not you know they're like most of them are like 90 95 they know exactly what they want already
it's not your job to necessarily convince them over one floor or the other it's to convince them that hey you
have what they're looking for and you're the best fit for that right so
um I I Believe In selling and marketing from a standpoint of
Integrity uh you know trust honesty and then omnipresence also right like
education omnipresses so if you can be in front of them in so many different ways that's when marketing really works
if you can get in front of them when they're doing a Google search great you can get in front of them when they're on uh you know social media great as long
as it's not too pushy or or something like that if you can get in front of them you know on groups local groups or
communities emails things like that your omnipres right it's not gonna you know
you're not gonna win over everyone but that's fine that's totally you know that's that's part of marketing
kind of part of the game part of the game so how does uh just a quick question
here for preferred flooring up there uh do you guys
when you're when you get a client because I think it's interesting that somebody sees
uh a commercial job that you did and then once you do their their house we've experienced that as well but
what's what's kind of really cool about that is you're not marketing to that side you're kind of still doubling down
or are uh going after more your commercial stuff and because of as a
result of doing such a good job there you guys are getting the residential jobs is that accurate
um you know there's a there's probably a little bit more to that that meets the eye
um a lot of the residential comes through contacts that we make on Commercial projects and it also comes
from the the area uh the school district um we we do
put our name on Little League teams we put our name on on high school teams we
try to help out in that manner too like originally we didn't help out to get
residuals we helped out because we were kids that grew up without those opportunities and we wanted to help and
plus this is the school district that our children are attending and we want to do our part in helping them become a
successful District um so the
the visual the name is familiar right like oh well let's check out preferred foreign
company oh but all they have is commercial work well look at some of their work I'm sure they do Residential
you know and I'm pretty sure that that some of it is a mixture of a familiar name and logo mixed in with a little bit
of research so um that that um who knows you not who you know thing so
just and plus people thought we had a whole Fleet of Vans at one point but our
vans are such stand out they stand out they're they're driving Billboards and like oh man I've seen your van in
Lansing on Monday but then I was in Greenville and I seen it there on Tuesday man you guys are everywhere how
many crews you have we just laugh but I think that that's what helps with the website it leads it directs people to
the website and in turn they call hey I don't see any residential and then we have a conversation
so that how does how much does brand continuity play into this uh
do you think Daniel yeah uh yeah like it's it's part of the
omnipresent stuff right like again like I I I I I live and breathe the digi in the digital marketing worlds that's what
I know uh so I don't do much of the the traditional marketing or you know but I
think that it's part of that that omnipresent stuff and you know it's it's being seen right so if you're being seen
in person if you're being seen online if you're being seen with the trucks uh you know driving by and people recognize you
when it comes time for them to get flooring chances are you're going to be you know
top of mind right because flooring is not something that's like you know unless there's a you know
obviously an insurance claim or water damage or something like that it's not necessarily something that is like an emergency I need it tomorrow right it's
like oh I'm planning on doing some renovations right it really depends the timing so you can't control the timing
where people are going to need your services but it's up to you as a business and up to someone like me as a
marketing company to make sure that when that timing is right that you are top of
mind that you are found right so uh that you know if people are searching for you
that your website pops up and your your branded assets pop up if they you know
that you're continuing to email them if they became a lead even a year later you
can still nurture them with you know updates uh News latest reviews case
studies before and after pictures things like that that can all be set up on you know automation marketing automation so
that you're nurturing that lead who was interested in boards but maybe they just weren't ready to pull the trigger on their rentals yet and you're still top
of mind right so it really just comes down to um making sure that you're doing your best
to to be there when when the the prospect of prospective client is is ready right
and I think that's where like there's there is that difference between the commercial world and the residential
world as far as like all the emails and stuff because like I'm
especially like project managers and stuff like that they they move from GC
to GC and it's hard to keep track of all that right so in order for us to be top
of mind with um commercial we we that's why we're out doing the baseball teams and stuff
because then we we attract those eyes where it's like hey your kid was on my
kids team and I own a construction business so hey why don't you want we sit down and talk and um you know my
sister's kid is on a team right now with one of the guys that used to work for a distributor who's retired now but now
it's like he sees our logo everywhere he's and then he he calls us hey my church needs some work done can you come
measure it it's it's all all about how many how many eyes we can get on us at all
times so that way like you said we can be top of mind yeah yeah and it comes back to the
beginning there I you know knowing who the right eyes are what the right message and then knowing how to get in
front of them right there's multiple ways to get in front of them and you're right commercial is a whole different Beast than the residential but you can
still use the online stuff right there are still people who are searching for commercial flooring installers in your
city right and there you can still do targeted email lists if you have a list that you buy or you know maybe even jobs
that you did 10 years ago might need some refinishing work they might need some patch ups that might need new
floors right you can reach out to them even 25 right things like that right I didn't mean like you it's it's wrong or
anything it's just you have to have everything that you can in order to get
the most presence that you can yeah 100 yeah 100 I mean because I never thought
that sponsoring the teams and like he said we didn't do it just try and get jobs or anything but
after we started seeing like some of the residuals like man maybe this stuff does work you don't think about it like old
school right printing something having it kind of a shirt or you know um what
are we doing that's all that's awesome that's also tugging on some heart strings I mean there's a whole another
aspect of charitable marketing um not that you do it for the mar for
that side but there's you know if you're involved in your community and you you advertise uh yourself uh
often if there's some event or something you're the sponsor of it you're up on a
billboard you're uh you know so those things always tend to come down the pipe and uh you stay top of mind but
digitally it can be a little bit tougher because the our attention spans
digitally are so short and that's part of your struggle at floor marketing Pros
right I mean like you have to have hard hitting
things digitally uh in some manner so depending on the depending on the
traffic source so it's kind of let's let's break let's break it down here right so we always say when I when I'm
talking to prospective clients it always starts with you know your website right a website you need to have either a
website or a landing page or a squeeze page or something like that that is Catered towards that person who's
looking for what they're looking for so make sure that it's it's that it clearly
addresses that topic whether looking for hardwood flooring or commercial flooring or residential flooring or luxury vinyl
or just an installer whatever you want to make sure that that page is relevant to what people are looking for there or
if there's a promo or an offer or you know a sign up whatever and you want to make sure that it's easy for them to
take action whatever that action is request a quote book an estimate uh you
know call you right you want to make sure it's easy there you want to make sure that the messaging is not all about you or yourself right so a lot of people
a lot of the times I go onto a website it's like you know we're you know Miami's number one flooring company and
here's how why we're so great and we've won on this award and this award and this award and it's like people don't really care about that until afterwards
like talk to the talk to them first like explain why they should care about you
uh show them that you understand their frustration or you know their pain points hey you've been looking for
hardwood floors and you just don't know which one you know is right for you have you dealt with flooring contractors that
never showed up and we're late and you know your project was delayed and they went way over budget or something like
that here is why we won't do that here's proof that we won't do that and here's
you know there's some some uh some awards we've won because of that right so we want to make sure that you know
your messaging and your website are congruent to that kind of stuff there and then you want to figure out where
you're going to be driving that that traffic from so um you know uh
I'm a Google guy that's where you know where I got my feet wet in the online marketing world is the SEO the organic
stuff uh and I think still think it's the best possible traffic Source there
is online the reason being is if someone is searching for something online
chances are they're interested they're searching for flooring near me you know uh flooring Kansas
city they're looking for flooring in Kansas City they're not really looking uh you know to understand you know
what's better or something if they're looking for what's the difference between you know lvp and laminate then
they're looking for more information but they're looking for flowing contractor interview they're looking for a flooring company and the vast majority of people who
uh search will click on either the organic Maps results or the results
below that right so that's why I think that's so powerful of us to have strong
SEO presence is because people are searching for it and you know that they are if you're not ranking high in the
maps or organically you're just losing out on those people who are interested
now it's how can you yourself tell where you're ranking because like if I search
for me it's like pops up as the first one because it knows it's me right
yeah so there's a bunch of different tools let me do one for you guys I'll show you I'll show you a couple here and
give me just a moment you guys continue I just kind of plug in my camera here or
yeah there's a whole bunch of tools that I have a tool that I that people really love and it's to show uh
it is to show local Maps rankings but I need to be able to share my screen
yeah so I would do an organic search I would look from uh an incognito window
okay okay and and take a look there but if you're located where your office is
you are going to show up yeah if you're doing things right so the idea is maybe you should do a search from another side
of the city and and see where you show up ideally you can rank across a whole
Metro like we have some rankings that are making the maps across the whole area it takes a while to get to that
point but it's totally possible so most Maps change my settings on Google to
change my location because like I didn't know that until recently that you could do that but uh yeah on my new phone it I
kept doing like search near me and it thought I was in Ohio because that's where what was programmed into the phone
so and then when I want to find out some information and I'm pulling up a bunch of spam I do uh I do change my location
to a different country and then I I pull up a whole different um a whole different envelope of
information from another yeah so yeah you can change your search uh on the Google settings on the phone also like
through a desktop fake yeah there's a way to change your your geo coordinates as well totally but
yeah there's tools out there that will show you where you're ranking locally in the maps and like I said it's let me see
if I can share my screen here Ashland is the host I just asked her if
she could if you could yeah Ashland if uh you would make uh for
marketing Pros the host that would be awesome
so in the meantime you know okay there we go so you know seos and Google search
is really really important uh and also just showing up for your brand so we
talked about your you know branding right uh you know sponsoring different uh events and teams and scholarships and
Charities and things like that uh you want to make sure that if someone searches your brand you're going to show
up as well and oftentimes people don't really have a strong brand online their competitors might show up for them
because your competitors are bidding on your name or you just don't have that strong of a brand there so let's let's
do uh one here and I'll show you a good example here so it's
it's remind me of the name that you're going to get your business is preferred preferred flowing preferred
flooring bird flooring in
yeah or right there Grand Rapids the second one down I'm trying this one oh
no it just disappeared it was it was the second one second one
okay this one yep three mile road okay so we're gonna enter a search term
there's like flooring or flooring contractor
and we're gonna do a local search and we're gonna move this to miles
and change this to about seven
and I'm gonna move the the grid to a little bit more in the center of Grand Rapids there
and actually we'll just change it yeah throwing contractors it's even just flowing Grand Rapids
and we'll do a search and I'll show you so what this does is it gives you an idea of what your
search you know where you're ranking in the maps across a geographical area so obviously green is good one two or three
is really good because that means you're showing up on a Google search otherwise people have to click on more places to
find you and red and orange and you know uh lighter green is is not so great so this
was one I did for a uh you know prospect that uh last week let's open yours there and you can see
here that he's ranking the maps for a turn like this for flooring only near
his actual physical location but anyone outside of that location he's not
showing up so it's really really important to absolutely to to you know to optimize your site uh for that
traffic and your and your business profile as well to get that right because the vast majority of people are
going to click on that and that was something I didn't necessarily mention is you have you know you've got Google ads you got the maps you got organic
results now how many of you guys actually click on Google ads some of us do I do sometimes but somehow they don't so most
of you really relevant it's got to be really relevant exactly so that's why uh
you know investing in the uh in um or a strong organic SEO presence is
really important so you can see here you guys are showing up for flooring for
in Grand Rapids closer to where your physical location is there
in the Northwest right so anyone in the Northeast
or Southeast or Southwest if they're searching for flowing Grand Rapids isn't finding your your listing there so
that's that's something that you know that's really you know something very interesting and uh appealing to a lot of
flooring businesses out there the majority of the contractors we do we work with are in that area right around
us anyway so so that's amazing that's great yeah so it really depends on it depends on the the company right if you
are annoying reader if you're a retailer and there's someone who's going to drive from this area to that area no problem
if it's the right store if they got the right reviews they you know have a good
brand reputation from a commercial from a commercial standpoint though like
you'd want to to what I see most is general contractors
when you when Google's used where I see it used most is when a general contractor is coming into an area they
don't know who preferred flooring is or who the best is in that area and so they they type in flooring contractors Grand
Rapids or something of that nature you'd want to rank high overall
for that that's not really a real tight local search right that's kind of like
just looking for the best flooring contractor in Grand Rapids how does that what you just showed us how that how
they're uh how they look up and Grant in Grand Rapids how much does that affect
like what what if I'm a GC out of New York and I'm going to build a Trader
Joe's in Grand Rapid and I'm looking for a flooring contractor to cover my my flooring side of that
how much does that that local search that you just showed affect them
it depends how much it depends how much research they're doing right so if
you're if you're if you're a commercial uh you know a GC or a property manager
or if you're a residential homeowner it depends on how much research you're doing right so if you're willing to go
down and take a look at all these sites and read about them that's great but if
you're you know like a lot of people they're just gonna see okay this one has five star reviews 88 five-star reviews
I'm gonna you know click on them and give them a shout uh they're showing up here I don't have to I know the owner of
absolute Floor Covering he's a good guy well that's great that's awesome yeah shout out all right so so yeah so it
really depends like on how much they're willing to to do uh you know you can go
to more places and you can find other stores right there and you can go to see what the reviews are
um in my experience people are looking for a store that has a good reputation
that's going to not going to be too too far away from them uh they're looking for someone who can give them a quote an
estimate at a relatively uh you know as early as possible and they're looking for someone who's going to be within
their price range and budget right so it really depends Paul and I think that that would be
pretty important like I would say that you know you're going to want
to well the reason I ask is that is sorry to interrupt go ahead no no I've
just you know you wanna you wanna uh try to get as much like we're talking it comes down to
omnipresence right you want to get as much visibility as possible in life so if someone is looking
whether they're in New York or they're in you know these southeast of Grand Rapids you want to be visible if you
want to be visible right it really depends on the goal of the company uh but yeah I could see it really and it's
important for a retailer because like from if I'm a homeowner I want to go to the closest Best storm like those two
things right the best but also the closest if I have if I look up on there
and I see somebody that's got 55 star reviews versus 88 but they're closer
you know that's still pretty good I'll I'll probably get but from a commercial standpoint we you know
most commercial contractors don't just service a small area so they'll service all of Grand Rapids or all of right you
know that entire area of of Michigan even
um like even before we traveled doing national accounts at Stewart Associates we still did work in all of Kansas well
Western Kansas is for over four hours away from us you know
um so I guess my question was those local searches really matter when
you're a retailer do they matter as much from the commercial side and I think there's some
Nuance there that that would have to be talked through to get to a true answer to that but that was my question
yeah it depends who's doing the search if that person is is just looking for a reputable company that has good reviews
they'll click on a few of the companies there go to the website and reach out to them right
um most people are not going to spend the time going through multiple Pages that's for
sure so you know there's a there's a joke in our industry that the best place to hide a dead body is on page two of
Google right no one's going to page to Google whether
they're a commercial Prospect or residential Prospect I don't see them really taking the extra time to to find
a result on the second or third page right so if you're buried there I think they're still uh a need there but for
commercial Google is definitely less of a factor and I would say that it would
be more targeted ads so we talked about Google advertising that you got targeted ads right so that's on Facebook or
Instagram or LinkedIn uh YouTube and then uh targeted emails as well so if
you have that list if you know like people you have that ideal custom commercial customer that you want to reach out to you create that list you
send your message depending on what your message is like we talked about at the beginning and you you know you set up
email campaigns and marketing campaigns as well I think that's where you can reach the uh commercial uh customers a
lot a lot better I want to do a couple of things I want to talk about the independent installer
just out there installing so he doesn't really have a lot to say about what the store where it's at he's trying to
Market himself as as the best installer uh for whatever trade part of the trade
he's in maybe the best tile installer in the area and often uh when when people are whether
it's uh I mean I've done it in my own town when I've gotten desperate and and
Googled flooring installers Wichita Kansas you know um how can what are some easy ways they
can Market themselves is one question and then a follow-up is like what is the
experience of going through you know to to demystify this you know email
campaigns and all this I mean how do companies like floor marketing Pros help with that and is it as scary as it
sounds so part one is the first question of how can independent installers Market
themselves effectively who may not have websites but use social media more and
then the second part uh as I just yeah yeah social media would be the key there I
think uh um you know we've tried we've tried some
paid ad campaigns uh on Google ads for independent installers and it just
didn't work as well uh the cost per click is going up on Google ads right now so like we were averaging uh I would
say twenty dollars per click for flooring contractor intermediate tile contractor and that adds up if you are
an independent guy if you just have you know maybe yourself or another couple guys that adds up that would eat a big
budget and uh understandably so frustrates people and they say okay well
it doesn't really work Google ads work absolutely you just have to be able to be willing to spend a
bigger budget you have to have a bigger kind of brand name recognition you have to have a nice site to send them to
there's a whole bunch of different things to make Google ads work better for you so I would say that the Google ads probably not the best solution
unless you have you know you're willing to spend you know 50 bucks a day and you
have one specific keyword you're bidding on in one specific area or a couple zip codes that you're bidding on then I
think you can uh you can leverage some phone calls for sure there and it's pretty easy to get get started there but
social media would be where it's at because of what we talked about with the visual aspect so if you have great
imagery and videos and media and then you're going to share that the
issue is that people aren't sharing it in the right places a few years ago there was a study that showed that
your your Facebook page right your shared Facebook page I think Instagram is a bit better for sure but your
Facebook page organically has a reach of like five percent so if you have a
hundred people who follow your page only five people are gonna see what you post or again unless unless you've boosted or
you know pay to play things like that so um if you're just posting your work on
your own page expecting the phone to ring and there's not many people following it
you're you're you're missing out you're missing the point there but if you're doing some targeted ads you're boosting
it to the Right audience if you're posting in groups you know I I know a couple contractors have had a lot of
success posting in their local you know uh Community groups uh you know local
mums groups and things like that hey you know wanted to share this Amazing Project we just did and don't pitch
yourself like just say this is the pro that this is the project this was the problem we encountered this is what we
did and we're so happy with the results and like here's you know uh you know testimony or you know testimonial or
review from from the client before and after images people are going to be
interested in that you know well that's great that's great because you're I like what you said don't pitch yourself like
just let the results speak for themselves almost like if you're given a a talk somewhere and you
don't you're not there to pitch your company but you're there to talk about the problem or whatever it's almost like yeah you're showing exactly that's cool
like I said the consumer isn't dumb right so there's a place for a pitch and there's a place for not for not for
pitching right so the the Facebook groups some of them are spammed to hell with people just saying hey do you need new new windows do you need a new group
you know I can you know just maybe share some projects and
that's it let them decide hey you know this this looks great I'm gonna call these guys right so that's where I would
uh suggest it would be the the Facebook groups and the Instagram uh but again you need a following so make sure that
you're you're tagging relevant uh accounts and you know relative pages and
maybe following different people so the bigger following you get the more you're going to be seeing leverage stories so
show the pros the the progress of a job show the process of you guys installing people want to know the human side
behind the brand they want you to install it yeah they want to see the process the process so that kind of
stuff would be would be really good uh and then uh you know you can the email marketing all those
I'll talk about in a second but uh Tick Tock I don't know much about Tick Tock but I know that there are a lot of
people who are doing really well with tick tock especially in the flooring world because it is visual it's quick
easy videos oh sure and shorts exactly so that would be something that I would
suggest yeah do they run traffic to their site is
that is there is there a way for um or is that through just email but is
there a way like if you have a Facebook page I I know some smaller companies that's their website is their Facebook
yeah yeah so you don't need to run traffic to a page so like uh like the ads that we're doing with go Carrera I
think we have uh Legion uh form so basically it's a form directly on Facebook or Instagram so you know are
you interested great name email number you know you can set the fields and it's a form it never goes to your site at all
right so if you don't have a website that's ready and that's what I would suggest if you don't have a website that's set up for the conversion that's
going to Showcase your work going to have nice imagery reviews trust factors and things like that
just try to collect their information as quick as possible yeah I'll give you a
plug there you guys did really good for us down in we ran a campaign down in
Florida and it was it was successful with my uh in my view and we have a
website and everything but we're just we were trying to gather uh information but that sounds like that mechanism they use
for GoPro would be really helpful for our installers as well like you know that that could be a easy way like if
you're if they're I see a lot of posts on Facebook that are like I'm the best or this kind of attitude
when they're posting about themselves I really enjoy the ones that are more like what you said that it's like here's some
work I did here's a problem I solved check out the finished result um but at the end of the day they can
they can there's ways to leverage your social is what I was trying to get to like there's ways you can leverage that
to to not just post on your feed and hope for the best
yeah yeah I mean again yeah go ahead I would say you could run a link to all your socials anything you
put Facebook as their primary and they have a second or they can link them all together
um at that point I guess it's better to have a separate work Facebook than personal but
now um I did come up with an idea what you're talking what if we just started calling people and asking them about their floors extended warranty
start spamming on the yeah yeah that's good give that a shot Daniel or Jose and
let me know how that turns out is there a program right now going on
right now for that no so you don't know about Canada over here in the U.S it's a joke because
we are everyone got a call been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty uh yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah
I know there's lots of that's what we're getting calls about Windows right now and window replacement and and like over
here right now it's all about the uh employee retention tax credit get like
24 25 calls a day government grants yeah people making
money off the government grants yeah yeah so um going back just a minute because I
want to give as much value as possible to people who who need it when I taught
when I said you there's more ways to uh leverage your social media than just
throw in a post up and you were yeah you had a thought on that
well yeah hands on your budgets depends on your target audience
uh and depends on your message and in the goal of it is it just if you're trying to get
in front of more homeowners like I said the free way to do it would be just you know share but don't spam
your work on relevant groups you know build a following do some
Instagram things some some shorts uh some stories get people to you know tag
you join in with local charities and community and trying to get some them to share with you because the more that
they share your stuff the more brand recognition you have there and then there's the pay to play which is running
targeted ads there's two ways to do that you have the first one where you can just do a post and you can say boost
this post it works you don't have as much targeting criteria as you would on the
back end which is through business manager so you would set up a Facebook business manager account that's connected to your Instagram you've set
your daily budget you set your audience uh you can be really drilled down uh
it's kind of gotten a little bit trickier in the last few years since um apple and iOS change their like
targeting and privacy settings but you can still do that so if you're a commercial installer
um you know think about who you want to get in front of uh you know
so we we've done some campaigns for commercial uh companies targeting
interior designers Architects property managers and just say hey this is what we do this is the work we do if you ever
have any projects that require you know gym floors or you know hospitals hotels things like that here's our work yeah or
like here's a guide of like how to choose the right floor for your next commercial project right so it's education right there's various
different things it really just depends on the budget and and how willing you are to to connect
with them at that next stage right so if you're just kind of like hey this is my work call me great
if you have enough resources and enough time to put together that that type of
kind of sales funnel material where it's more educational uh you're not pitching anything uh and then eventually more
about you you know the next ad can be about you and your history and then the
next ad can be like a case study like before and afters and reviews and then
finally it can be like book an appointment with me if you're interested so really that's like how we have set up
our social media campaigns but in order to do that we need a decent daily budget
because we have those four levels of ads we have this kind of intro top of funnel ads that are very generic then we have
you know more detailed about about the client what makes them you
know their passion for flooring how they got into it why they love doing what they do and then like a review or a case
study before and after pictures and then like a call to action right we have different levels of ads so it really
just depends uh you know think about who you want to get
in touch with what the message is and then you know just go and build uh build relationships and and get in front of
people there so we've talked a lot about building the relationships on the podcast in the past
what I keep takeaways for me is like talk about like give something away I was not
texting I was actually taking down a a note to um
write up a free pdf about choosing the right flooring that sparked me again calls all the time about that why not
leverage that knowledge that I get from several Architects and have all the
Architects telling me to uh specify what fluorine goes where that's really where
we set ourselves apart is we're not just trying to sell you a floor we're trying to sell you the right floor for the right space
um just had a client just as an example and do a pool room and we bid
um we did protect all which is a product uh for her chlorine and me both really
enjoy and believe in and it was perfect for this pool house at a country club
um they decided to go with somebody else uh and put kinetics in which is a
kind of uh here and there but it's not really the best application for that product and so now the edges are a
little weird and curling and they're calling me say can I start to just call you I have to
give some members uh of our country club work so I can't give you every job but
do you mind me calling you to make sure the right product is being put in I said absolutely so that's part of an idea for
me there uh so giving something away for free it like that seems like especially
if it's valuable and it's well put together and actually provides value to
that person could come right back to you I remember we have our friend called chat gbt so uh
yeah you know um that there are there are prompts out there that build
that material very very well you just have to uh you know program The Prompt a
little bit and prime it to give it the information that you want you know I want to make sure I talk about this type
of room and this type of room this rep room and this type of floor for these for this audience
you know go you know write that guide and you can also say I want to make it like a a pamphlet like a PDF can you
give me some ideas for images as well and it'll give you an idea for images you can send that to a designer a graphic designer and canva there's some
pretty awesome stuff that you can do with that um right what we're using the AI now
pardon me even canva has an AI picture exactly exactly you can connect canva with the chat exact so you can connect
it and send it to canva and Canada will create the uh the guide it's pretty amazing uh all that stuff and I would
just say that if you're doing that uh route you just want to make sure that that if you're putting that out in in
the ecosystem that there's a way for them to either in the past it used to be something
called like gated content right so here here's our guide but you need to get you know put your name and email in order to
download it which is great still works or just make sure that it's there available for anyone but you have
maybe a tracking pixel on it uh you have uh multiple calls to action uh as well
you know do you need help with this get in touch with us right so you don't want to just put it out there without a way
for them to actually get into your uh your your final ecosystem up as well
yeah I I'm sure a lot of people in the audience has used or messed around with
chat GPT a little bit uh if you haven't it's pretty fascinating just to play
around with a little bit but you talked about having the right prompts and things like that
um also if you're gonna write something um remember to put your
this just my my take on like put your flavor into it like don't just rely on
chat GPT to give you a perfect document like yeah
yeah you can input you can input um previous previously written material
as well to to get it to understand how you write and how you talk and like the way you want to uh portray yourself or
your business so you can give it uh you know you can say hey these are these are pages that I've written before this is
my emails that I've written this is my style this is my tone can you write something about this now using that
using that tone right so yeah you can get you can get smart and and when I we use chat TPT for you know writing ads or
writing emails and I'll get back to your your question about the email stuff um and then for website just
understanding structures right so uh going back to the SEO stuff I'll touch
on this really quickly it is uh website will do well if you have the
right Pages for the right things right if you have a good solid site structure so what do I mean by that you know you
talk about flooring okay well flooring what you know flooring installation okay what types of flooring installation I do
hardwood installation we do carpet installation we do Luxury vinyl installation we do a you know you have
pages for all this stuff and things oh what type of phone you sell okay we sell Hardware okay what type of Hardware solid Hardware you know a pre-finished
hardwood you know site finished hardwood engineered hardwood you have types of things you're you're creating that
entity and chat GPT can help really well understanding all that we call them kind
of topical entities or topical relevance in the SEO world so chat TV can help you basically say hey I want to rank you
know my sector flooring what are the different types of topics or entities that I need to have on my site it will give you a list and then you can take
that okay I want to write a page about this one okay great then you edit it and you adjust it and you know your flare
um we try not to copy and paste at all too much especially for the Google stuff
um but we'll take that as as kind of like a inspiration and put it into other writing tools when we're doing our
content that's what that's what I've used it for
is more inspiration maybe a little bit of like guidance on topics or something
but typically the body uh I like to just
for lack of a better word exercise that creativity on my own but it is nice sometimes to have that problem that kind
of gives you some subject lines for an email or or uh you know for a book that
you may be writing or whatever yeah that's where oh yeah that's really helpful
yeah and there's there's a Chrome extension called aiprm I think it's 20 bucks a month or something or 10 bucks a
month and it's just wonderful like it has something like a thousand different prompts depending on what you're trying
to do and you just plug in a couple keywords there and it will just shoot it all out because it's all been pre-programmed uh what's the name of
that a i p r m a i p r m
all right that's been awesome yeah yeah and there's there's tons of you know for social media posts there are
also like I can't remember off the top of my head but there's ones that will create automatically like ads and
carousels and you know uh headlines images and stuff like it's basically just say like hey if you want to do a
social media campaign on choosing the right for for your next commercial project
it would create the various ads for YouTube which is awesome again but again you need to make sure you review it and
then that it's you know true to your fashion and your style and your it represents your brand and all that stuff
but and actually true and and actually true exactly and actually accurate right
right so and then in terms of answering your question about the emails and the email marketing stuff like that we have
programs that we use uh you know we're going to be setting up some some stuff for you Paul there uh we're basically
here's where I think that most people fail with their email or even their lead management
is a lot of people will use say something like a MailChimp or something like that and they'll just send like a newsletter once a month once every six
months put a list but they don't really follow up with it or have like a next
step or a call to action right so when we like to do our email campaigns we like to have uh you know uh multiple
touches related to the same topic because some people might open that first email and they might not open the third or some people might open not open
the first two and they might be open to third right uh um so it depends uh on
the day time of day you're getting in front of them so we'll have multiple touches related to the same topic and if
they're interested we have a call to action we'll move them down along the pipeline and that pipeline will trigger an automation so it will trigger hey
this person's interested you should call them right away because you know they're a hot lead or I will send them a link to
the guide of how to choose you know the right flooring for your next commercial project right so we have various
different automations in place as well so uh so we're not just kind of sending an email and hoping that someone gets
into touch with you you're taking as much action as possible to to convert them into a lead or say hey no I'm not
interested right now or leave me alone you know that's fine if they say leave me alone you know that they're not
interested at all you can you know erase them from from your list right subscribe
yeah yeah is there um what do you think on uh when you say multiple touches per
topic and we're running short on time so I'll make this short but uh multiple touches per topic
the people who maybe grab the do you exasperate the ones who do like open
your emails on a pretty consistent basis uh in almost uh sacrificing them for the
ones who need the additional uh touches on the same topic do you see what I'm
asking like yeah the way we have it set up is we remove people from the workflow
if they opened is not enough but if they replied so we we make sure there's a
question in there like are you interested or would you like to you know schedule an appointment with us
something like that if they replied yes they get moved they get removed they don't get any future emails they get
moved to the next stage if they replied no I'm not interested they get removed and they get you know sent to not
interested uh but if they're opening and they're not replying we'll set still send them until they say yes or no right
so that's the way we have have it set up got him that makes sense
all right well uh I say this every week and I'll say it
again that hour went by fast yeah sure I am I am uh uh want to say thank you to
Daniel from floor marketing Pros he's done some work for us we've been very happy that's why I brought him on uh I
think that uh Daniel can you how can people reach out to you like how can they get in
touch with you if if I'm a a small flooring company or I'm a big flooring company or I'm an installer and I want
you know any entity that I may be how do I reach out to you to maybe give some of your expertise and help yeah uh website
is flooringprosmarketing.com email is Daniel at flooringprosmarketing.com on the website
there's a link to book a call with me as well which I'd be happy to talk uh to you guys and you could find me on uh on
Facebook and Instagram all the all the uh socials there uh the name is Daniel moskovich so it'll be I'm sure it'll be
in the episode here you can have some notes uh some links there you can add me on Facebook and we can talk via
messenger but best would be just kind of visit the sites uh or send me an email awesome
preferred flooring what's your guys's take on all this uh you know what it
what this episode did for me is uh you know I was taking some notes because I just every time I get with someone who's
really tuned into the to their to their uh trade like digital marketing Temple I
just see these holes that I have right I need to you know what I mean like yeah
that's what you you think right because we're we always say look at the our industry and how people
you have the installers that don't know what they're doing and then the installers who do right
you have to think of your of yourself like that I'm not a marketing professional and sometimes you gotta say
you know you're always like this person should hire me because I'm the professional well sometimes you have to think outside of you and be like I'm not
a professional at this that's where you know Daniel comes in and it's like sometimes you got to hire that
professional in order to get to that next level and you'll never get there on your own can you do like us personally
right like what we have done ourselves has gotten us to a certain level and in
order to grow from there the only way to do you know grow from there is to actually hire someone that knows way
more about it than we do yeah because well there's a lot to be said about working in your what you are pro every
moment you spend doing something you're not great at like like for me it's more I'm not the best marketer but I'm really
good at selling floors and I'm really good at you know managing Crews and and hiring people and
training them for my company if I can focus on that and let someone else do some of the marketing stuff then and and
that goes with anything but since we're talking about marketing that's a key Point here is that like sometimes it's
time to turn it over so hopefully uh some people reach out to you Daniel and at the very least I want to say thank
you is packed full of great information man and uh I know it's a bit like
getting the understanding how the digital marketing World works there's a reason why there's professionals and
it's it's because it's it's a little it can seem a little complicated but it's not as scary I'll tell you from
experience as you think when you engage a professional so uh hire me as your
flooring professional or higher preferred flooring up in Michigan as your flooring professional and hire
Daniel is your marketing professional so yeah I appreciate that it's it's it's it's it's simple but it's not easy
sometimes and and we prefer you guys to focus on what your uh what you're great at as well and yeah and then help you
grow your business stay in our lane just say stay there exactly
all right well I appreciate it uh I want to say if you guys are watching this on
YouTube you know consider giving us a like subscribe to our channel uh I know
that preferred marketing posts as well give them a like And subscribe as well as uh Daniel down at floor marketing
Pros we'll see you guys next week again it's two every Tuesday 3 P.M Central uh
we come with several different topics uh I would like to uh tell you look out for
the news there was a press release recently and we've teamed up with the fcef in helping them to
um you know increase their revenues so keep it keep an eye out on the industry uh paperwork or the industry
Publications for what GoPro is doing right now and uh we're trying to help the industry and that's why we put this
thing on every week with these awesome dudes up in Michigan so thank you guys again every week you're here and
um I can't tell you how much I appreciate it and Daniel to YouTube man thanks for coming on and
we will it's my pleasure next week awesome all right thanks guys we'll see you later see ya all right
The Huddle - Episode 50 - Best Practices for Hiring and Training Installers
This week the guys discuss their methods and protocol for hiring, what works for them vs. what doesn't, and what new tactics they can try to make sure they are choosing the right person for the job.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family welcome to the huddle coming to you every single Tuesday at 3
00 p.m Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
I say every single and uh except last week and a few times before we try to
make it though yeah I think we're hitting a 95 98 percent uh
hit rate that's pretty good with me today is Daniel Gonzalez from
preferred flooring via Nashville down there
down there hanging out with the protect all folks it sounds like yep I just got here uh
probably two hours ago three hours ago something like that so
I had enough nice so you guys are down there kind of I haven't even seen that one yet
gotcha all right I got up here I put everything together and then just went
and checked the pool out real quick and then hopped on well we appreciate you being so diligent
not leaving me alone today so uh today's topic is hiring and uh
training installers um look if we had the exact answer
um you know we we would be proposing the solution to the entire industry but I
think this is more of a discussion um about successes and failures on
um my you know what I've experienced uh being in flooring for over 20 years you
know and what Daniel and if Jose jumps on here uh what preferred flooring kind
of their their side I'll also speak kind of what it took for me to get in the industry so
um I want to open with this you know one of the things that I found is a good
common denominator on ins on good installers guys who have been doing it for quite a while and do good quality
work almost always they love the finished product like it's it's
that's what they love that's the part that they love they love like walking into a building or a home
and transforming it within days or weeks of them being there because we're the
fine uh finishing touch that was certainly one of the one of the things I still enjoy when I
go out um I just enjoy it vicariously through other installers uh who uh work for us
now you know I go out to a job site and I see something the before and afters
um still something that really gets me going and it seems to be a pretty common thread so to stand a reason do you guys
kind of see the same thing on your side Daniel like
I'm sorry I'm trying to get this link over to my brother oh gotcha
well I think it stands to reason if if this if this is part of us it's kind of like
an artist and seeing this thing come together and a project kind of come together from uh well
um you you unfinished yeah because you just think of people in general and we
like that instant gratification right we would touch on this numerous times and there's nothing better than being able
to see what you've done from the start of the day to the end of the day and
knowing I'm the one that did that right I think that's that especially like early on that's how it started with me
it's like that I always wanted to do flooring
absolutely not but there was that point where you do something and you finally do it yourself and you're like
I did that yeah dude it's a satisfaction of of completing something or doing
something that's kind of uh maybe a complicated layout or something that that finishing that product
um it's just something you can't get hey Jose it's just something you can't get
uh by pushing a button in a factory um or you know being on a simply line or
something like putting the same cigarette uh you know thing in a in a in a car for 40 years uh
so I think that you're looking one of the things in hiring installers you're looking for someone who finds
satisfaction in completing things and you can formalize and this is kind of
geared more towards employee installers so uh for everybody who use Subs we use
Subs they do too but for everybody using Subs uh this is probably more uh pointed
to the employee installer side but finding people and asking the
questions that can in an interview that can kind of bring out that like do you
how do you find satisfaction in completing projects or uh you know
what what's your favorite part of starting a project a lot of them will say finishing it you know
um so there's there's a lot of ways of hiring um we've done a bunch of different things from
the monsters and indeeds and things like that all the way to
um you know Craigslist and but I think Daniel and I was talking earlier I think word of mouth is paying the best out for
you guys and you know frankly it tends to pan out the best for us as well so
you know is there something to have in that lead yes sorry for being late guys I couldn't
find you can link up with my computer so I was about to try my phone and then it then it populated but word of mouth has
no worries it has been probably the best right because nobody ever wants to ever really let a friend down
um but it does happen and when it does happen you're always a little bummed out more than you would be if it wasn't a life uh
time friend right or someone you got to deal with the rest of your life but you know everyone's got to live their
life and you can only be upset for so long but it's one of those I'm here to learn for
it from everyone too because there is no foolproof way there isn't no
this there that's what I think I I wanted to point out this is an art there is no science to this
um we are trying a new method we're going to launch a web page it's going to have a questionnaire on the second page
and then we're going to send them through a video interview to try to weed out what we found when we
we go with the Craigslist or an indeed is you get so many people who are just
applying to trying to every single job that they see yeah dude and it's like a mountain of
applications and resumes and you might get two out of it maybe and that's if
you are diligent enough to stick with it and go through the entire pile and not start like
you know so I don't know that those sites are the best uh we haven't had a
lot of success on them we just get a lot of Tire kickers to be honest with you
but this is uh manipulate the the technology and use it and to their
advantage right like we actually get I think someone who hits from like people like across the country saying hey I'll
come work for you you know I have experience but then it's like
I can't pay for your relocation costs like we're we're not big enough to do
something like that and that's what someone's looking for they're looking for like
to to help them out so to come over here and start and we're just not not at that level to be able to offer something like
that oh well and even if you were it's really risky right because you pay the
relocation costs and you can do it in a way that
um you know is tiered we've done it before not for installers but for project managers
um but to be frank with you I lost 3 500 bucks not five months ago
um on a very that on that deal we learned our lesson like okay
we've done it this was was our third or fourth time doing this um first time we got burned this way but
the guy poofed after he got the money so we we decided okay if you can't
afford to get here then we will we're willing to reimburse your costs but not
pay for them up front so that's what I would recommend to anybody is if you are
gonna do it they they come get themselves there on their own accord
and then you can reimburse some of the costs whatever you guys feel uh you know you can work out but you know paying up
front has bit Us in the rear end we lost like 3 500 bucks you know to me I always look at how big of a job I have to do to
make thirty five hundred dollars you know we do the same you know what I mean and I'm like God dog I just did a you
know twenty thousand dollar job for free right or Twenty or thirty thousand dollar jobs for free you know and
um that's kind of how I quit in my mind so that's one thing I would say is like
reimburse travel costs if you are going to pay or help somebody relocate I also
say I I've never paid for somebody's uh complete cost like if they're in there's
a reason there in that dire of the street that they can't get here then it's they typically come with a ton of
baggage right and leave a bit that reimbursement we've been talking about that too with even with training because
uh we've just seen money fly out the window these past few years where it's
like hey we want to they say they want training and then you send them to training and then like they're gone and
that training stays with them so absolutely we'll do you know we're thinking about doing that reimbursement
to where it's like all right you you pay The Upfront cost and then you'll get it back you know on a weekly or monthly
basis that way we're not out of pocket for everything and then that way if you end up leaving tomorrow
that's not yeah expectation anyways yeah because because here's the truth like
you're not gonna get a non-compete on an installer to stick you can't do it I
don't care where you're at in the country how strong in in Kansas non-competes are pretty weak from the
way the legisl legislation looks at it like court cases and stuff uh plenty of
them get overthrown uh the courts just don't like to hamstring employees from being able to do their job and in the
skilled trades they they're they're not going to work so you're best from
working yeah that's like like well how are you going to have a stronghold over someone's uh career right like they've
earned that no matter who they've worked with we'll never do we'll never do that to anybody because even though
it's hard to accept the loss of the dollars and cents invested I know me as an individual I would
really really be upset if I felt like someone was trying to control my direction yeah I wouldn't have it
yeah we'd never do it for installers we have done it with uh PMS uh but our
non-compete is written in a way that's very
um defensible because we only have six months and that's it like give us we just need six
months to get our feet around the projects you've sold and and contact our
clients and and you know make sure they know they're still going to be taken care of uh we need six months so it's
six months and no like I I beat one uh for a guy competitor of mine had a
non-compete on and we won but it was two years 250 miles
judges aren't going to uphold that this is people's livelihoods so uh
non-competes are good if you can get them enforced I wouldn't say they're good for installers I would never put
one on installer but um you know if you have a client facing
person like a salesperson or a or a project manager or something they can be enforceable I would just say make them
really um short time frame and small radius like
you can't make a guy move away from his home to me that just is ridiculous first
off secondly like it doesn't need to be two years six months is plenty of time for you to
get your your your footing with your clients and make sure they're taken care of and then that guy goes work for
someone else and starts calling your clients and trying to get work well you just got to be better than that so unfortunately that's just part of being
a business owner when we're talking about installers I mean you know the old way of hiring
unfortunately is starting to dry up and that's why I think this conversation is is is needed and that is the the dad
having a son coming into the business or a couple of nephews or something that's is just
drying up man it just like I shouldn't say it's drying up it's it's
dried up and so we gotta find new creative ways to hire people and I know
that the fcef is doing a lot of good work so reaching out to them
would be a good thing uh coming down the pipe we have some some new things with
go Carrera that will help called jumpstart where any once we launch jump start
uh any uh installer in our Network can hire off of that jumpstart board but so
can company so if for example if jumpstart's good and you get a couple of new helpers that come on the jumpstart
board that have went through some level of training through the scef they'll go on our
jumpstart board and if they're they're close enough maybe you guys as a company can hire
them Stuart and Associates as a company could hire so we're trying to foster a
way to get new people in onto a board where we're not having to decipher through
line cooks and and and you know what I'm saying like right it's specific to to
our needs and our industry and that's everybody else has it they 100 have it
so I think there's some new ways that we're trying out at
Stewart Associates like I said if this works out I'm gonna share with everybody like
for free I just want more installers in our industry so if it works out for us I'll I'll be putting it on the Huddle on
exactly what we did and how you guys can do it and but we're going to spend the money to to to
you know test it out we think we got a good method um
and uh yes yes
when they're brand new it's hard to to qualify them right because they they still need to get a taste
yeah even if they've went through some level of training the success rate there you just gotta expect it's gonna be a
little bit lower because they they haven't been out in the field and really gotten a taste of what the what the
industry is is so but anything that starts to work
um I'm going to share so we're hoping that that we attract uh like in our
video interview we're asking questions and that only an installer would really know
and that's it's hard to Google like and figure it out quickly and the video
interview side of this is basically the the basic setup is there'll be a landing
page about the benefits of getting into the flooring industry and and and how
robust our industry really is but we need more uh installers and come one
come all regardless of sex gender race any of that please consider flooring as
a as a viable option for a career if they go through that and they fill out
our questionnaire it's just questions uh written questions they type in their answers that comes in and each answer
will have us a number of value to it and if they score a certain amount then we will invite them to a video interview
with that video interview it will be um
questions posed on the screen and then they answer them live just like this
but they only have like a minute so you can't you you're not going to be Googling and trying to find the answer
uh you'll run out of time what was the question again [Laughter]
so we try to make it tight so that they can't just you know Google the answer and you'll you'll know if they do really
uh but it's it's meant to um
it's meant to kind of weed out everybody and then anybody who makes it through that video interview would be offered to
come in for a final in-person interview and hopefully we get plenty of those
kind of guys um and we're we're looking for experience guys but we're also looking for people who answer the soft skill
questions well um like how how one of our questions for example is how closely do you feel a
employee should be supervised right we want to know do they feel like
they need that micromanagement or are they you got two ends of that spectrum
and we try to stay away from the two ends the guy that's like I don't want any management or the guy that's like I
I want uh I would like to have input on an hourly basis you know we're looking
for the guy that's a little more centered uh uh the the installer that's
a little more centered like until I know what I a good answer would be something like until I know uh what I
exactly what I'm doing uh I would love to have a resource to um to lean on however uh once I'm
proficient I don't see the need for heavy supervision that kind of a a deal
would be a good answer for example but yeah this thing is an art and we're trying some new stuff you guys got any
great ideas that uh taco party
for a taco dinner and then that's where the final uh interview is I don't know a
taco eating contest we've seen both sides of the spectrum where some people interview really great and then
those are the same people that don't even show up for the first day yeah and then there's some people that
kind of struggle just because that's you know that's how they are and then they come in and
it's like yeah this person is a worker then
yeah references are about the only way to get through that but even getting references anymore is tough you know you
call a company you better be dedicated to getting references because company doesn't have to answer you and a lot of
times you know they're busy and you're like the last person they care to talk to about some other installer that
worked for them back in the day you know and believe in that some of the references that they list are just family members posing as somebody else
and you gotta be able to kind of feel that out
ask the right questions yeah what is your relation to Mr Gonzalez for
example oh that dude oh man he's my ex-employee [Laughter]
well I I do know that you know don't quit like keep if you can one of
the reasons we're trying to do this a digital way is to have that that flywheel turning all the time and always
have candidates coming through um where it's really tough if it's
dependent on Personnel to do it um you know our CEO does a great job but
at the same time how many interviews can they go through in a week and still do his job you know so
I don't know I was getting on here hoping you guys you guys had the magic pill oh man there's no magic Pill Man
there is no magic pill you know but you know to to um uh LEAP program on what Daniel said
there or piggyback is the um he's right the people who do have all the right answers and all that those guys are in
there they're very from our experience it's been they've been very competent
and now that he said that it's making it made me go back through some of that process where they were too confident
right and the guys who were nervous afraid to say the wrong thing and bus up ended up being the ones that would that
worked a lot better worked out a lot better for for a longer length of time or are still here
um and I guess uh moving forward maybe that's the
understanding people skills right like someone who has all the right answers might have all the right answers because they've messed up that many times they
know exactly what to say now um and I never thought about it like that tell them right now so me empowered
we're kind of talking a little bit before we got on here and you know just mentioning
um people that already have experience and bringing them on and how a lot of the
guys are stuck in their ways and even you know we they come to us and they're
like we know you guys do great work I want to learn from you I want to be on that level and then two months later
they're like I just can't do this anymore because they get sick of us saying it's not good enough do it again
yeah can't believe in stuff like that no shortcuts look at this cut right here you can't leave that why would you think
that's good and you know that gives me some ideas on some more questions like you know if
something could take you 10 minutes doing it close to the right way but it's going to
take you 30 minutes to do it the right way which do you prefer which way would
you go yeah right well that's Integrity too right like almost posing at that like it's okay to
go the shortcut though that way they don't think the setup you know like um
it's like you know doing it the the shortcut way will still produce a great result but
doing it the uh industry recommended way um produces a warranted result which
which would you go to in in stressful times or something just yeah formulate
questions like that you know what I mean that's a good way to put it because sometimes sometimes the the way that it
looks the best isn't the way that it's warrantied sometimes yeah you know and that's that's what what sucks and some
people don't understand they're like oh it looks like this well I just do it like this well well that's not the right way and you
know that's a good question that's that's a way to to kind of sift through some of the uh
the corner to or the people who like to cut corners um well we're going to try some stuff
because I certainly didn't come on here with this topic and you know as some
someone who has all the answers I just don't it's a tough thing to hire skilled
labor it's obvious that's why the not just our industry but all skilled labor is short particularly in fluorine but
um so there's just not a right answer but I would say that it's it's about can some what we feel like and why we're
attempting this is to get some consistency you know in in the recruits that are
coming through and being okay not hiring every single person that comes across
like Bill if you can get a consistent um qualified in some manner anyway
qualified uh applicant then you don't it you don't have to just take the first
one you get and that's also a knee-jerk reaction that I think a lot of people do they get a guy that's come in with like
you said earlier Daniel you know 20 years of experience but he could have the the fact is it comes with 20 years
of baggage and it could be yeah if if they're not teachable and that's that is
one of our questions is on a scale of one to ten rate yourself on how teachable you are
and then we ask another question later that's similar but different which is are you a quick learner or do you need
more instruction right and there's no right or wrong answer to that question by the way uh that's a zero point
question meaning either way they answer it doesn't move them up or down it's just knowledge on our side
and I think that's where like these younger kids coming into the workforce right now it's harder because it's the
the participation trophy kids that are coming in right now and
it's they've always had that to where they didn't have to work for to earn
something so they think that you're just supposed to give it to them regardless of the way that you know they're working
or behaving at work and stuff like that so it just makes it that much harder
um because the kids that if you think about like uh like our kid they're in sports right
because we want them to be coachable being coachable you know converts over to being teachable
so it kind of goes all hand in hand but when you're just handed stuff like hey
good job even to the kids that were crying the whole time when you know you take them
out because someone else has the play it's funny you say that because yesterday I was late to my nephew's game
I wanted to go and help him out and afterwards they won the game and I gave them a little bit of like you know kind
of give him a little booster in the game because he's he's a little scared when he's up to bed and he he's timid he's
like hey what do I do and I answer these questions and he didn't do anything I said and then after the game they were
like uh this coach is like good job and I said don't lie to him like like if you tell him that's a good
job he thinks that he has nothing to strive for right like like you could tell him great effort but don't tell him
good job right hey guys I gotta run though because they wanted me down there like 10 minutes ago and I told him I was
gonna be like well thanks for joining today Daniel and fitness Dirk says that he just wanted to share
with everyone that he got an offer on a project 12 unit apartment lvp for a dollar a square foot and zero
dollars for prep that's all regional but that is very
laughable over here and after you said the the taco comment Jimmy said uh he's
had our tacos in salsa he's moving to Grand Rapids it's working right Mr Salisbury steak
let's go all right guys take it easy I wish I could all right see about the streaming but it'll just stay streaming
the whole time I'm gone no worries thanks for coming in put a timer on it I tried it didn't work all
right all right Bubba all right say Daniel well I think the stream anyway so
as we go here um you know the the hiring training
thing is like it's a complicated thing but do you agree that if if a mechanism can be
found to just keep the a flow going have you ever seen the move the show Suits
yes okay so you know they they every year that uh Harvard would have a
graduating class coming through this that law firm always gets the first look
so the the guys that were hired last year guys and the the people uh men and
women who were hired last year or in previous years are always on pins and needles when that new class comes
through and they're always yeah and and it seems a bit Cutthroat but I wish
we had some level of that in in our industry where it's like a consistent uh
free flow of installers coming coming through and um you know keeps current installers
striving um but also just allows for new people to
come in and get trained uh at this point I wouldn't let anybody go I'd just be hiring you know there's there's such a
shortage but but um interesting thought it is too and um
you know recently I was I was able to sit down with uh the mayor of Walker um where our business is located and uh
there was a young lady there who was working on his staff and they're they're trying to develop new ways to engage uh
uh local business owners right for opportunities and and she had asked what what are we missing and it just happened
to be that the the guy in charge of finances for one of the local schools was there too and I said
we need placement and tests at the the high
school level so that way people know what direction they should be going like higher education like if you're going to do it do it like I would never tell
anyone never to uh to entertain that but at the same time it was like if you're going for higher education what field
are you going to go into you have your gen Ed classes but what are you striving for
and it would it would help it would help uh create a better opportunity for success for everyone not
not just the individual the student the person but the community and even if if
they don't graduate high school right like at what age do they start doing that is it something that could be public and available to to push them
towards their strengths and say well you would succeed in these fields um and I think that's where yeah they
used to do that used to do competency type tests they did in high school back in the day whether you are you know
college material or not so to speak and that that was now that's non-existent
mostly because they don't want to hurt no one's feelings but the truth is not everybody should go to college I didn't go to college
I didn't yeah I tried I tried and then like they said that
I could make a living if I was attending so yeah sorry dude like you're telling me
that I have to like tell my family they're not gonna have anywhere to live because I'm just trying to better my future now I'll figure out a way
um yeah I know a lot of people who didn't go to college and there's plenty of multi-billionaires who didn't go to
college but if you're wanting a really good job and it's going to be you're an accountant or you want to be a attorney
or a doctor or or you know computer science stuff yeah College can be really
beneficial but I think it's a waste of money and a waste of time if you're going into
um and your heart's not really in the social services side of the world like a
you know a liberal arts degree or some crap like that uh or Jim you know gender
studies all this stuff I mean at the end
how is it going to help your future and um we've just gotten so far away from
that and everybody started going to college and we've talked about this on not only on this podcast but multiple
other podcasts talk about it all the time we know that problem but I'll tell you
one thing the AI revolution has started there's plenty of jobs going extinct
that just if you sit behind a computer you ought to be worried about your job in a lot of ways
um but they they're not going to be doing carpet or or tile anytime soon with AI I'll tell you that so get your
hand skills uh that's my point everybody you can't no one can ever take it away
from you no matter what hand skills you try to or what field you go into no one can take that away from you and that's
really what it is um so when you guys do hire somebody new do
you have a particular Training Method do you put them on some type of schedule or yeah so that's the hard one right
because you know we're not as as large as uh as most would think and a lot of
it when we hire we and it sucks to say it like this but we hire because we're in need of it we
don't hire as far as being preventative for for what's going on sometimes we do have the luxury of someone coming in and
we're looking we start we're starting to look and we find someone before the storm hits uh but usually it's like as
the storm hits right like one something's dying off or someone just happens to lose a job and they make a
phone call hey so-and-so said you guys might be her yep we are um and we kind of throw the guys to the
Wolves uh so to speak um you know it's you're gonna learn how to swim pretty quick right but then we
we've also went about like all right let's put them in the field a couple days then come and work in the
Box let's do some explanation a little bit of Hands-On training let's try to do that um I think we talked about doing
two weeks in a box here at the shop before they go to the first job tool education and stuff like that but
it all depends on their level of understanding and how we try to approach it we say all these things but then when
everything comes down down to down to the nitty-gritty we're like yep okay we were gonna have you do this but we
really need you over here now you know yeah people who do well we still yeah maybe
the only thing that that we do that's that's I think maybe outside the box a
little bit but um is we have a module we'll have them installed approve their level of of
ability um but at the end of the day man we still
do it the old way we put them with an installer uh we do circulate them through several of our lead installers
to find a good fit for them as well as a good um make sure that like you know some
guys really like tiles some of them really gravitate to carpet and that so but from
a uh but it's still the old way you stick them with somebody and you hope that they learn some stuff and um you
know we've got some really good installers that just are really crappy trainers and so a guy will get with them
and not learn anything over the course of an entire year so um my my answer is get them in in
you know plugged into some outside training entities if you can if you have a good resource locally
um and if not you know we found a lot of success in sending guys to protect all trainings send them to Nora
certifications and that kind of stuff so you just gotta lean on it we're actually
working on that right now as a matter of fact there's uh some things that came across the desk as far as uh kind of
offsetting some of the costs I think Daniel mentioned it early when I when I when I got on a little bit later but offsetting the cost of the onboarding
process and we're doing our best to uh especially in a nutshell what I just
did is I just submitted a lot of the training programs to the state of Michigan so that way they can be recognized
um because we found out that there is uh essentially there's grant money available um for trainings the problem is is that
it's more for Corporate America instead of construction America so a lot of what
I submitted is all brand new but fingers are crossed um and I just I just got word today right before the podcast that
uh we've made it through step four of the process and I think there's one more
step after that so we'll see if it's approved and if it isn't approved it's a learning process for the state of
Michigan and some of the uh the government funds and and how they allocate them and opens up their eyes as
to what's available so that was a federal Grant type thing yeah I think it's a state
Grant not a Federal Grant I think it's a state Grant so but yeah I mean
it's it's available and I didn't know that right so I had very few days to to prep
for it it threw a lot on my plate but I did it man and I'm excited to see what happens
um hopefully it helps us and it makes it easier for us to like you said to have
someone attend a two-week or five-week introductory introductory class with cfis or fcica or or I'm sorry fcef
so that way it can offset some of the costs and it's easier for easier appeal to swallow so it's not so much of a
you know here's your investment and we hopefully it works right that's what's been happening yeah
yeah the the hiring of uh the hiring of hourly installers you know Subs are a
little bit different that's why this is more geared towards uh employee installer talk but
um I think that make sure that if you are going to hire
um employee installers that you're treating them the same as you treat your office I remember and I I said early in
and on this podcast that I would you know I had some lessons I learned as an employee installer myself one of them
being that if you divide your your sales people and your project managers you
essentially your office from your field in benefits and you know they're treated
better in the office you're set in a really bad tone and so all of our hourly employee
installers have the same health insurance coverage that I have they have the same as anybody in the office they
get the same days off and holidays and and all of that stuff so they get to say
they accrue vacation time at the same uh uh the same rate frequency it's the same
rate um everything so I I remember like we got no paid holidays we got no paid
vacations but the office did and so I would say don't do that and if you are a
company that does that that's that's not good yeah yeah I will say nothing else but I I would say that's a
terrible thing to to do as a terrible model it is because we we were those guys who did
we recognized the difference in treatment early on and we used to call I
didn't refer to office guys as uh like they weren't we were a whole separate team it was them and it was us right
it's always their word against our word it was it wasn't a team uh effort and
oh we promise not to be like that and I think we've done pretty good I mean there's always instances where people
are like oh but you guys have all this and that it's like um you know
me being where I'm at I do have the the ability to to leave my station and come
back and finish my work right I do have that ability that is a perk of of working in the office setting uh versus
the field right you need to be in the field to get to get the work done and that that is there's nothing I could change about that
um however what they don't see is that if I do have to take off for an hour to go um take my kid to a dentist appointment
or something like that or go attend an event um outside of work I come back and work
until eight nine ten o'clock at night but if they leave for a dentist appointment or a doctor appointment they
don't come back and say all right I'm going to make up that time they well I'm just going to take the rest of the day off you know and
so so guys who are employees there's pros and cons to each it's just about having a mutual respect between your
office and your field and making sure there's not this clear like
you know office staff gets treated so much better than the field
um that's that's just to me that's the the way to to add
separation and adds this wedge between the two um I think you know that that's probably
you know at the very least about the lowest line thing you should do as a
company is make sure that you're the guys who are actually making you the money by putting the product on the floor
they're treated the same way just as Fair as your office is
um we all you know I'll tell you what same refrigerator here man we all eat on the same refrigerator so
keeping it organized and stocked up is uh is up to us but you know essentially
we all open the same door we all reach in and grab the same stuff so um I'll link it that way
yeah and I'll I'll you know the I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here because it's not like we're giving you
guys a bunch of revolutionary ideas and we are talking through this uh it's a
bit of a conversation but I would say that you know when
um when our if you can make your your installers
feel proud of what they're doing uh treat them fairly um you'll keep them we have a good uh
retention for installers at our company uh one of them is oftentimes the
installers come into our office to work when we're really slow in the field that doesn't happen very often but if a guy
um as opposed to sitting at home we'll bring them in the office and and have him work
um in fact we had a guy that had knee surgery and he was in the in the office for about oh four weeks or so and he
learned like there's it's not all rosebuds and you know sunshine in the
office it's stressful there's a lot of like pressure uh on the office staff you know
if you're an estimator you got time frames all the time if you're a PM you're always dealing with these
coordination and schedules and multiple project managers and superintendents on
projects and and the installers learn quickly like each day I get to go to one
job for the most part I mean sometimes you'll go to a couple but for the most part you're going to one job and you're
dealing with one set of people in any given day I could be dealing with seven eight or nine as a PM yeah yeah today
was one of those days for me actually my sister helped relieve some of my pop-ups
for today this has not been a the last two days have been really really rough on the schedule with
changes and other trades not showing up and people uh being sick and not able to complete
their tasks and you know and of course you put us in a weird position but
the magical fingers and phone calls of Jose got everything kind of squared up and figured out and we're back on track
good deal well I will report back kind of talked
about a little bit about what we're going to be trying at Stewart and Associates and we are going to give that a shot and we are going to uh
um you know if we have good luck with it we're going to share with the world so you know that's another question I that
I have is like um it I might know the answer but it might
sound like a dumb question but you know do larger companies with more capacity have to have a different uh template to
follow for the onboarding process than a smaller company right because um the reason I ask that is uh you know
the the dollars and cents and sustainability of a new hire is a little
bit different for someone uh who has a larger capacity versus someone who is a
little bit smaller um and and that's the question for the audience too like like seriously like I
that's I I want to know I want to know what everyone does if you have 200 employees versus 10 employees what
what's your approach were you at 200 employees at one point but now you're down to 20 or vice versa what have you
changed why did you yeah
yeah I'd like to know yeah I can only speak to I've been to
you know several conferences one of them being we're a member of fuse and there
was a guy that did a talk about a lot of the stuff they do to hire and retain and
man they it's it's a big company and they have they they they've got a team almost
assembled in in doing this so like it's obviously not easy
um you know but I I I know that the efforts you know it's got to be put
forth what do you do just not just you can't give up you got to have people so uh keep fighting a good fight and if
anybody is watching this on YouTube uh comment and tell us what you're doing
and um yeah let us know what's what's working for you and uh what what maybe
doesn't work for you uh be interesting to see some input on that so
with that my friend I think we're gonna close it out a little bit early today yeah I know without Daniel we're just
lost well it's a tough subject because it it crosses the line of a lot of the
subjects we go we go over every week there's some aspect of training and hiring to almost all of this and to have
this subject just be hiring and training um we probably could have afforded a few
more companies to come on and talk about this with us uh that would have been a good idea by me now that I have it after
the podcast but we can hit that in the future sounds like a plan to me
all right my man well have a great day and uh we'll talk to you next week and
uh look forward to to connecting again and you are going to some some shows
coming up so I I just want to say to the audience if you guys want to come out and hang out with us and maybe jump on the podcast we're gonna definitely be at
the fcef or I'm sorry the FCI CA slash CFI event in September
um we're also probably going to be at tsp coming up uh total Solutions Plus so
come check us out there and uh again if you have any any ideas on what's worked
best in hiring um whether it's like experienced guys or
just really good uh gals and and um guys that that you found that are not
necessarily the most experienced but turned out to be a great hire for you you know let us know
that'd be great all right guys well my man I should say
yes Daniel's already gone we will see you next week my friend have a good one
thanks everyone all right we'll see ya
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 49 - How to Price Competitively while Maintaining Profitability
This week is a dive into how to price at a competitive level, without short selling yourself and still taking home a profit.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up got me in a drink there what's
up Lauren fam welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday We Gather here every Tuesday
to discuss maintaining forward progress in our flooring careers with me as always Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from
preferred flooring up in Grand Rapids Michigan your go-to flooring Pros uh
they're in the north central part of the United States
we got uh Daniel in the office and Jose in a truck which should not surprise
anybody sorry guys I pretty much live in here
have extra clothes I really do have extra clothes
well today we're going to be discussing how to price competitively while
maintaining your profitability excuse me
um this is you know kind of standard Concepts uh that can apply to both
installers and uh flooring companies but the the best method to ensure your
profitability is Cost Plus make sure that you gather all your costs and then you add a
markup to that that covers your overhead and profit uh that's pretty standard for foreign companies from an installer
standpoint I think this first step you guys can tell me your thoughts here
but first step is know what your costs are like so many installers I think we
talked about this in a previous um episode as well like so many guys
don't know what their true costs are would you guys agree is that yeah run into it all the time where you
talk to the guys and they're like uh I made enough money for today and then you
you start talking about the the numbers and it's like you really didn't make anything today
um yeah so what are some things Dan what are some things that the installer
should consider when they're like trying to figure out what their per because what I did was try to figure out what my
per day cost was and there's always a variable in there from how far I have to drive to the job site or whatever but
standard variable this is how much it cost me to go to a job regardless of what I'm doing there
to go to a job for an eight-hour day that's how I looked at it when I was subbing what do you guys think yeah that
thing is a pretty good way to look at it yeah yeah but I think there there's so much
loss in Translation there especially when they they don't know how to keep track of things and all they do is throw
all the receipts in a box and then wait till someone asks for it it's uh you
know a lot of stuff goes into it because you got your fuel your vehicle costs
and then I I don't think so many people have taken into consideration that you
know especially the smaller outfits when it's just you know one or two people it's
100 of your time they're like um and we fell into it too when we were
first starting out it's charging for the time spent on the project only like the
Project's 45 minutes away and that's when we start when in reality we should have started our clock as soon as we
start the day because that that counts towards our time towards that project
yes yeah when you're figuring your and and that's when you guys were
subbing you you just kind of in your head calculating the cost for the day
started it when you were on the job site is that what you're saying yeah when we when we first started
and then you start realizing that there's all these little bits of time
that don't get accounted for and you have to make sure that
you know everyone profit is something that you need in a
business you're not there to hang out and break even every day you're there to
you're out there and so that way you can you can grow right
so you need to realize all this time adds up so you know 15 minutes in the morning and then you gotta go spend a
half hour 45 minutes going to the store or something everything adds up and you got to start charging accordingly
like that you can't just not everything is
just included in the the installation price itself because a lot of guys you
know are charged by the square foot or square yard stuff like that which is fine but when you're looking at
an opportunity and you let's just say lvt if you're
going to do a thousand feet of lvt uh at a dollar a foot
and um you have a it's you and one guy
you want to look at the project at least at the drawings or something and kind of understand the layout and how difficult
the the install may be so those things impact your production and then you have
your regular costs what your help gonna cost for for a day with burden and and
burden being insurance and taxes and stuff um and then what's it costs just per
mile for you to start your vehicle or if you what I'd always do is just look at it like anywhere in Wichita I can go be
at the job and and work for eight hours and I need to make a minimum of 400
bucks or whatever it was then I had a helper I need to make 600 for that day or whatever
um so some of the costs that you need to be considering as an installer and I know this seems Elementary but you get
if you're watching this thinking it's Elementary you'd be surprised at how many people do not even think think it
through this far they just start doing work and hope at the end of the day that they're
they're making money until they figure out they're not and so it's one of those one of those
things where what are you using throughout the day as well right like the consumables was the
one thing that was overlooked on our part for a long time where we would go and buy supplies that would
last us a week two weeks a month and you know we spend a couple thousand
dollars on supplies very minimal supplies like not even equipment just supplies to like
accessories for our equipment a few thousand dollars so you're talking like just to be super clear you're
talking like blade sphere carpet knives blades for utility knives blades for your scrapers that kind of uh consumers
yeah yeah it's a big thing right now yeah notches
um you know what made us start realizing the amount of money that we weren't accounting for is once we started
getting more into grinding everything during uh before we prep
um the segments for Grinders and and the heads and the wheels and accessories all
that stuff is pretty expensive I mean diamonds are expensive guys yeah
ask your why or your girlfriend that well they don't know you buy for
them anyways oh they picked it out [Laughter] they knew what they wanted okay yeah so
that's the stuff that I would you know what I what I would just as an
idea and what I did my hard costs what I just took for Paul Stewart to jump in his van and drive to
a job pretty much anywhere in Wichita and spend eight hours there I had that figure
that I knew now you gotta forgive me it's been 25 years ago but 20 22 23 years ago
maybe something like that but uh the the daily figure then you had your
production costs or your costs that are associated with the production of the work and if it's trials and and those
types of deals I'd figure you know an additional cost and I figured 10 bucks a trial back then I honestly don't even
know what a good trial cost uh at this moment but I figured ten bucks a trial or a blade and you know any other
specific things I needed and if you have a big piece of equipment whether it's a
demo machine or a heat welder or those things you got to be thinking about the maintenance on that even and so
if you take on a job and the money and the money is good enough on a per square
foot basis to cover everything that's fine I'm not telling you have to change the way you price your services I'm
saying consider the cost and look at if you do a thousand feet and in the example I was given at a at a dollar a
foot you're seeing the thousand bucks like you should automatically just deduct the 300 the 200 for this the 100
for that the fifty dollars for this sundry and and scraper blades and then
boom now you're at a more realistic like profit margin uh so to speak
right right ideally you want to pay yourself pay your installer your helper or your
partner or whoever's working with you pay your hard costs and still have some
money left over like that's called profit you don't take you know so many
guys just look at like how much am I paying my guy and then the rest is my profit that's not profit no right
someone's got to go be paid to install it whether it's you paying yourself to go install it or you pay another
installer to go install it you have cost so almost look at it like what would it
cost me as an installer to have Daniel Gonzalez go do my job
and if that's gonna cost me you know XYZ then
and Daniel gets paid and you you just figure in your head okay if I paid Daniel 40 bucks an hour to go do this
job how much is it going to cost me if I can get it done in eight hours and these are all real you know uh hypotheticals
but the point here is regardless of whether you yourself are installing or someone else uh if you take on a project
you want to understand that true profit is after you've paid
yourself something you're paid your help paid your bills your taxes insurance
that kind of thing you should know that rate on a daily basis so if you pay a
thousand bucks a year do the math on how much that costs you a day right it's about three bucks a day or so that it
costs you to be insured and so kind of have those figures in your head and
um anything after those things are paid
that's profit and if your labor only you may not have a ton of profit but you'll
still have you still should aim for some level of profit always aiming for profit 100 percent
and you'll um what's the what's the name of that book that that Kyle already
profit first uh was it profit first yes
um I mean that's that's a good it's a good listener good read um what's the premise there other than
what the title is very clear about yeah so that the it's setting up different
bank accounts for you know like operating costs uh and
like four or five different bank accounts but it's factoring in how much profit you're making at the beginning of
the project and taking that out right off the top put in its own account that way you're only left to pay yourself
with what you were supposed to be saying out anyways
so essentially budgeting project budgeting just by but just using uh bank
accounts to to make it right I think I think it was written when bank accounts
were free and you can have like 10 bank accounts and not have to pay a bunch of stuff
and the title itself is it helps you track and understand we're going wrong
it's look at things a little bit closer all right Jose we're gonna have to
have to keep going because you got a smiley face and a crackly voice
and it's frozen that way so as the this week's topic when we're talking about
the the elephant in the room is you still have to be competitive you still have to win the work
now I would personally love it if we would change
the entire way we bid work in America and just make it the closest to the
average I think I brought this up before but I talked to a GC that was um from Europe it's been several years
ago and the way that he described it over there
was they get all the bids in they uh assemble them come up with the
average and then whichever uh closest to the average wins the job not
the low guy whoever's closest to the average buy a percentage basis and he said that you
could be closest on the high side and still win the job from the guy then the second closest that's on the low side
wouldn't that be freaking awesome then you're bidding jobs to do them right and then the installers are it would change
the whole dynamic I I we can't get our capitalist uh um you know the way we look at money
here in in America like cheap uh to go that direction I don't think but you
know it would be great that being said here we have to win the job by being
either Superior Service where they want to work with you regardless of you being
higher and that's the best place to be or you're the low number
um I would encourage everybody and this is what the point I'm driving at provide
the level of installation quality and service to the to the companies you work with to the highest degree possible
because if you don't have if they don't have to expend management money to be on the job site
watching over you or constantly chasing you down on a Friday afternoon or
whatever if you're just a really good installer and you're an independent you're going to be able to if your
quality is there you're going to be able to charge more I know for a fact we have guys that you
know in a way have you over a barrel as a company because they're so damn good that you know they make a little bit
more money than anybody else because you don't have to worry about them so get to that point where you're not a uh you're
not being used by a flooring company because they have to fill a body on a
job site but you're being used because you were chosen if you can get to that point you're going to make more money
yeah and that's that's kind of how how we built up as well was that level of
service they they knew that as soon as pretty much they handed us the paperwork
it was a hands-off approach and any issues that came up Not only would we
let them know but we had a solution and provided that solution right away it's like hey this is what's going on this is
what needs to be done and that way they have all the information already
how to do that to the customer so how did you come up with Solutions
uh constantly uh learning about our craft it's
a lot of it has had to deal with because we've seen like when we were
doing a bunch of dorm rooms and stuff on Crete and then you see a bunch of guys going in there and they don't know
that you have to Prime the drip creep before you start patching with the cement based patch so it's like
simple stuff like that and or just um
you know the whole moisture thing it moisture is everywhere in the it moisture issues everywhere right so it's
knowing the signs for the moisture before you proceed with anything so that way
you're like look this is moisture we can test and whatever but I guarantee
this is what's what's happening this is how we can fix it that way
they they have the problem and the solution before they
even have they don't even have to come set put back on the job site everybody likes
Solutions when they hear about a problem right we've read a lot of personal development books between
the three of us and a lot of them will either tell you that
outright or there's a feel of that right like don't just come say all this floors
messed up that's it like
why and what's this what solution do you in the field think is the best you and
and that's how you're able to grow into a company like what you guys have done is because you become a Solutions
provider and it only comes from I mean watch every episode of the Huddle and I'll
almost guarantee you you won't find very many that we're not telling you to get
educated and be trained and learn the products and know what you're installing
like it's not the company's job to make sure you understand all that actually it
is the company's job but it's just as much your job as it is the company's job to make sure that you understand how
it's supposed to be installed and then if you step in the first position meaning you become a flooring company
like you guys well now it is you're you're in first spot it's darn sure not the owner's job
to know this it's your job so being educated I again it goes back to embrace
education Embrace training embrace the workshops and the the product demos and
things like that that are available to everybody um go to that stuff it does seem like a
lot of the different training entity um events if you look at them on social
there's more and more people um that's very encouraging I love seeing
that I hope that that everybody learns to become a professional themselves so
that when you do have a problem on a job site you're able to provide that solution that puts you in a position where
companies want to use you instead of somebody else even if you're more expensive right now you guys
experienced that didn't you we did we did can you guys hear me better now that it turned off my video
yeah you know we did experience that and we constantly experience it and it
and I wanted to add but I just didn't know if you guys could hear me but I wanted to add what Daniel was saying too and it was it was coming behind
um other installers or or other installers are failed um
installations that helped us uh come up with solutions that it wasn't we
didn't always have certifications in a bunch of formal training it was just a lot of scenarios that we've hit
um but gaining that knowledge and the additional training and education classes help us have four sites and that
is what I feel it brings value to the table
even from the Labor uh only standpoint is through the foresight to be
preventative ask the right questions when you're sitting down and at people with everyone trying to figure
out how to move forward how to price it so the key is like
the first as a as it applies to this topic the first suggestion I have is
make yourself more valuable yeah find the ways to make yourself more
valuable so that you don't have to be low all the time right and I watched the video it was not about you know the
flooring industry it was about I think it was more geared towards I.T they were talking to like some kids that wanted to
be in I.T in high school and then or something like that and then the the
difference it and the amount of money you can make if you go to college versus if you don't
and how companies look at just you know
your degrees and you're automatically worth that much more and it's it's kind
of like that in the flooring industry too I mean not as far as you know titles and stuff but your education in general
because the more educated you are the more solutions you have
to the problems that are popping up as they come up instead of having to do
trial and error and just ignoring it thinking that it's never going to come back to bite you
yeah and you know for the for the trades or the
um jobs out there that require college like an I.T thing or things that you can
learn in college that and shortcut your experience I know there's a big assault
on education in America I don't agree with it I don't think that you shouldn't send your kids to college I think if
they're going to go into a field where going to college helps them shortcut their years of experience and they can
go in making more money then that's a valuable thing I think what we need to
do is quit don't don't send your kids to uh you know
video a Psychology major and then they get into some other trade or something
or or uh they take a liberal arts degree that that provides no value to them
later but outside that education is essential in most of this like Jose you
just said that you know a lot of this you learned from experience but had you
taken Education First some of those pitfalls could have been avoided I know that's it's certainly
true for me because I started same way that I'm preaching against which is you know just going and trying to do stuff
that I had no business doing um but it it caused a lot of pain to my
clients and myself because I didn't have any right doing it I wasn't trained properly did I learn over time yeah and
then I did go get my certifications and my my trainings but the point here is
like if you can make yourself more valuable to the marketplace like uh Daniel was just talking about uh in it
it's the same thing it's just a different way of getting that education and then you can prove that you are that
Solutions provider so making yourself more valuable is kind of step one to winning jobs in a
competitive market um you know I I also
know that part of being more valuable is being able to be dependent upon and so
you know being a man or a woman of your word if you say you're going to be there on that
day be in there on that day or high level of communication all these things
can help you be better than other and look I'm not
saying anything bad about installers but the bar is not that high like if you communicate well
you show up when you say you're going to show up and if you can't you give the the company or whoever you're working
with plenty of notice that you're not going to be able to start on that day but maybe you start the next morning
getting that call you know three days ahead of time is much better than getting that call the morning of and
yeah 100 it's those kinds of things that make you more valuable so
know your cost make yourself more valuable and then you know at the end of
the day if we are in a real competitive head-to-head bidding uh scenario do you
guys have some um what's your guys's advice in in that case so you're head to head with another
another company or another installer that is let's say equal or apparently equal how
do you how do you look at uh the projects
I think I think everybody's gonna have a lot of Daniel's been doing a lot of uh being
against uh some of the the local companies uh and
he's doing pretty good go ahead so what what I do is
you just talk to him right and it's not really so in the last pre-bit I did we I went
in there and for the first you know 15 minutes we were just strictly talking about baseball you know building that
that rapport with them and then once it gets down to it you know they start
asking questions you know you're competitive um what are some of the issues that we
could run into and I got I just get really really in-depth on the technical side of things
as far as um things that they may not know you know this is what I'm seeing on job
sites these are the solutions this is why this number is you know could be
this and you may not see other people doing that um [Music]
and a lot of it is communication before we even get to that point to where it's like
this they want moisture mitigation included in the number but I'm going to
put it on a separate line item so that way they can see that this is going to be the cost for the moisture remediation
broken out so that way if we don't need it it's there's no question that is gone
can I add to that yeah and also ensures that if your
competitors if your mitigation price we literally want a job over this but if
your mitigation price is fifty thousand dollars and your competitors Low by 60.
or 55 or 45 or something that
it might just bring up hey maybe I should you know whoever you're bidding the job to uh they made the you know it
maybe ought to call this other company and make sure they have this mitigation price too right so it can it can save
you there and I deal with a lot of the same things
um try to try to make everything more personalized like there's there's I get
a lot of negotiated stuff across my point just which is pretty awesome right um and some of the the clients that that
I work with uh pretty easy going pretty easy to talk to Easy to deal with uh
they kind of already know what they want what they need and it's just a matter of explaining
the pitfalls versus the the wins on what they want and
uh like Daniel said they're just giving them information finding finding common ground outside of the
scope of work outside of their project is actually really huge uh so if you're
able to talk to someone personal level that that's super huge and it comes Supernatural to me because
I don't ever really think about like how to go and try to find out what school they went to and what team they like it
just like you just pick up on on things and during conversation you ask questions they give you answers and you
know and then it's about them and it's not really about you or then and then boom now you have solutions for them so
you build a really I mean yeah you know what I'm saying people do business with
people that they like so sometimes the how you get them to like you is you
relate to them on a personal level well at the very least you gotta have a
conversation to see if you're gonna like if they're gonna like you or not so you know building relationships and I would
venture on to say go back and watch our estimating uh podcast uh our huddle
there I it was probably 10 episodes or so ago but we mentioned this then
building relationships is both with the client but when you start getting in the world of supply and materials and I
don't care if you're just supplying grout sponges or something like having a good relationship with your vendor where
you can buy at a better rate will help you a ton if your rep likes working with
you or the store the distributor likes you they're more apt to give you a
better price and all you got to do is ask for it half the time if you built a good relationship with them if you're
not the guy that's always bitching at them always bringing them product back to restock and pay for and you know all
that kind of stuff if you're if you're a good customer to them and you've built a relationship then that's a way for you
to lower your cost below what your competitors cost may be and when that
work I would also say make sure you have it from an installer standpoint make
sure you have an installation vehicle I know a guy that ran across a little bit of money
went and bought a Mercedes doesn't even has an old beat up truck and went and bought a Mercedes and I love the guy but
I was like man you could have got such a nice fan he's driving a really nice car though he
is no doubt about it um but yeah so building those relationships
is what I got out of that right building relationships built with your vendor uh but because I have another client uh a
project I was quoting uh a local church and you know
he just he's seen us doing the school next door um we did a couple classrooms for him then he approached one of the guys we
got his information and you know at first we're the only ones in there and then they they have the meetings and they're
like well we need at least one more number so they bring someone else in and then that's where the relationship with your rep comes in because as soon as
that happened they went we don't have the same rep as the other company
but they still see it in the system so our rep called me right away and he's
like hey this is what's going on uh there's another company involved
you're the one that specked this material this is your new pricing yeah
getting protection is great that phenomenal
yeah and that's that's like um you know specifying work you know
specifying product um I think it comes invaluable to build
relationships because like your day in day out stuff that you buy from your
local distributor if they like dealing with you you you can ask for a better price and
you'll likely get it you know even if it's a dollar off a roller 50 cents off a roll of seam tape in your residential
carpet installer that adds up over the year and if you're constantly buying
things and and you're loyal to a given distributor and you built that
relationship and you go to them they're going to be very um encouraged to keep your business and
they like it so um yeah the competitive bit World you'd think like okay just cut your margin cut
your margin and I wanted to have discussion outside of just cutting your margin cutting your profit margin
the only time I would suggest doing that is if it's one of those jobs that are either
um kind of a resume job you know like I did this project and it
it comes with a lot of clout for doing it um or the project is so easy that the the it
makes sense that you can make the same type same amount of money in in the time frame
uh because it's such a simple project so meaning if the job if it using the earlier example of a
thousand square foot if it's all cut up and it takes you three days versus it's not cut up and it takes you one day
right right then those jobs you might be able to lower margin a little bit
because you're going to still get you're still going to make a close amount of money but only in one day and you
eliminate a lot of cost of uh management and such as well as if you're an installer you you can do another project
right you got two more days now so so John steyer says that uh making your
company seem a little selective and picky on projects gives you a leg up
potential clients you know let them know that they had to schedule with you because he's looking at like doctors and
other professionals sometimes you know it takes months in order to get in there to get an appointment so it's
make them want you more that's a good point and that does add on to like the
the creating a relationship right because the same way that uh a client uh don't want to work with you because
maybe they just don't like you um maybe you don't like your appearance your attitude the way you are the your
approach maybe they don't like you but you have the choice to not like a client as well and and sometimes
sometimes it's better that way if um if you don't like the client and it'd be if you don't like the crying
if something goes wrong on that project chances are you guys are not going to see eye to eye and there's going to be uh some kind of dispute right unless it
goes perfect so if you're getting bad vibes just just hey you know what I'm sorry I don't
think this project is for me um and there's nothing wrong with that either um and maybe they'll ask you why
we've had a couple clients that didn't like us at first or we didn't like them and we just found out that we didn't
like each other because we were we were pretty much the same person just uh different sides of the coin and oh
something's on fire um different sides of the coin
will we push through and we ended up being repeats on both sides the clients
uh and and uh they were hiring us and then they it would end up being good relationships still good relationships
yeah I think it's building it speaks to building relationships but I took it as like being exclusive which
to me kind of also um goes into the final point which is
building some type of a brand for yourself so many uh
installers look I I'm not huge on social media either but building some type of a
reputation or a brand about yourself even if it's outside of social media I
mean I do a ton of uh Consulting with Architects even uh General Contractors
about what the right flooring to put in a particular facility under a particular
use cases because I've got I've gotten the reputation of being a researcher and
having a ton of uh experience on flooring that performs well in different
aspects you know um I I've told the story and this is
probably the project this is really the project that led me to to understand the importance of this is we did a natural
stone a limestone in a class A office building with a ton of people in it uh
in the main lobby and the tile started to crack in different spots and
it's like the softest Stone you could put down in the main lobby of a really
busy busy building and it didn't crack all over but it just you know cracks
would come here and there and then it had some natural veining and different things going along with it the point being is really we should have
put porcelain tile that looked like that in the lobby and then they would have never had a problem and
um so just making sure you're putting the right product in the right spot but that came from a reputation that I had
built uh through the years of experience and as an installer you can get the reputation
of being like like we have guys that are just known for being very particular about how
things get done and they just won't vary from it and they typically have the the
best quality and so there's always a trade-off
uh they can kind of be um more demanding that that type of installer but I would
rather that than a guy that's easier to work with and doesn't have the level of quality
and execution we've we've been called crybabies a few times but
it's okay I'm with you yeah it's um it's okay but some people say crybabies I
like what you said is particular right and it's just um you know we've been down the road of failure
um doing it the way others have priced it out or wanted us to do it because they just have a lack of
lack of knowledge on certain things and and we didn't and we exercise that
muscle quite a bit and I know that they don't like to hear it from anybody right like sometimes we have to swallow that
that hard pill but I've heard it a hundred times like you guys and I'm like
you guys are you talking about flooring guys you guys always oh I'm
sorry we need Windows in a HVAC system running yeah [Laughter]
to be a certain temperature who thought
you know our best uh we've always had the client's best interest uh uh on the
Forefront of anything that we were doing and and not only that is right after the client's best interest is our
workmanship how long is this going to last is this there is this going to be a good investment for them how can I make
this a better investment for them and you know and and and maybe that's just the way we grew up you know growing up
with uh growing up trying to make you know toys from the dollar store last uh because
you you knew you couldn't go back and do it again uh makes you too well just care I mean
it's just caring about your client which goes all into this whole conversation
which is how do you win bids competitively and still stay profitable
well I'll tell you you're gonna take some jobs that are maybe less margin as
a installer or as a company but at the end of the day that cannot be your go-to
way of getting work it cannot always be we have to be the low bid if you have to
be low bid all the time you are just other the the market
like your competitors are setting your pricing that's how I look at it like yes
I'm not doing a very good job of building my reputation as a company or
building our brand out or uh making sure our quality is good if I always always
have to be low if that's the market if that's where you're at then you need to start looking
at some of these soft skills on how to improve your ability to ask for more
money and building relationships so you can ask your vendors to give less money and
and open up that gap between cost and and Revenue and in between there's your profit so
last I think it was last week I was at um an event uh at a local construction
company that the chamber put on and I'm a guy from a construction company we've never worked before and he actually
called me earlier today and that's kind of one of the conversations we had and he's like um
you know what are our strengths stuff like that and he was like what about multi-family I said man multi-family has
you know historically been a race to the bottom and he was like okay well you know what
where do you think that you know your pricing would be and I said I can't really say where my pricing would be because
on on something like that trying to win a bid because my price is my price regardless of where I'm in where I'm
going to be installing it so that pretty much puts me out of contention right away so I'm not going to lower my price
to try and win a project knowing that it's going to take just as much work as all these other ones and then he kind of
shifted the conversation and we started talking about health care and how
um I we know I started talking about resilience and the Flash moving stuff that we do and he's like so you guys are
in a pretty niche market then and so it was you know building it up to that
point to where we pretty much we know what we're worth
and we're not going to Veer away from that just to try and win a project with someone especially
with someone that we've never done business before yeah well I mean
the multi-family stuff um you know when installers will quit
installing lvt from I've heard prices from 45 cents to 55 cents for
multi-family stuff that's why we very rarely do it when we do it it's probably because I talked to the architect early
on and I specified the product if we get a multi-family build job other than that it's really or it's so
big in our area that it's only me and one other company that can actually pull
it off and so it's just me versus them but man I'll tell you what that
multi-family I I wish installers would just quit you know or start to help
companies raise the price on those things because they're so cheap I hate to see installers working their tail off
for 45 cents a foot when we were when we were subbing still that we'd get calls
all the time hey we got 10 000 square feet of LBT will you guys do it for this
much well send us the prints so we can look at them oh no we just want to know if you'll do this square footage for
this moment criteria or
or freaking you know right what's your problem can you send me your price sheet these
are the products yeah price sheets are another thing price sheets are another thing you know plug and go career here I
hope GoPro totally gets rid of like price sheets are are too standardized and they're it's
it's all I mean it works a little bit in residential but in commercial there's like it's if you if you'll install uh
something the same that's a eight foot by 200 foot Corridor has the price of a
kitchenette in a in a hotel that to me is insane
like I agree there should be different that's a different type of project and a
different cost model and if you understand your cost models and you put them together before you go to jobs you
know what you need to make you're just not going to make it on the kitchen mats you know not at the same price so
yeah that's that's funny just could you do ten thousand feet for a dollar a foot
yeah if it's one room and the slab's in great shape maybe you know or two bucks a foot
whatever the market calls for but well I don't want to um you know drag it on longer than it
needs to be because we have other episodes that deal with the specifics of estimating and bidding and kind of some
of this stuff but I just I think it's important to understand that you it's not a race to the bottom on your profit
margin you can still be competitively low and and make money but you better be
bringing in some of that work that Jose was talking about which is that negotiated work
um and then from an installer standpoint that's that looks like working with the
same company or with the same shop that treats you well pays you well and you
know you can keep working with them but then occasionally you got to go work maybe a little less rate elsewhere to
keep your days full the one thing that you know we didn't really talk about but that is worth mentioning is the fact
that you know you're not making anything sitting on your ass petting your dog so there's a there's a number that you got
that you're willing to do it for and um the key is to not always be in the
position to have to do it at that number right and that's kind of what John was
saying you know being able to to pick and choose which projects you actually want to do right especially if
you're subcontracting and they're like like I said hey will you do this for this much and
you don't always have to say yes you know yeah sometimes it's you'll make
more money not doing that job that's why I go that's one of the core
pieces of why go career exists you look at it you got the drawings you got the
costs everything or the pricings everything's there simply decline it if you don't want to
do it or negotiate the job and at the end of the day just doing it
like you said being a little bit more or like John said being a little more exclusive and a little more picky about
doing jobs that best suit and I would always encourage like pick the ones that best suit your skill set because then
You're Gonna Shine almost naturally
all right gentlemen well we have creeped up on an hour already um I will close this out with any final
Thoughts From You Mr Daniel kind of what we were saying man like I
always I always end like the post bids or anytime I go to talk to someone it's
always regardless of what happens information is you know always free if
you ever have any questions definitely feel free to give us a call and we've gotten you know some people that
actually really do call back and you just have to be that resource for them
um and they could come back in the future you know for future projects yeah relationships out loud projects
you might get another you know that project's gonna come and go but that relationship if you build it you're
going to have other opportunities that's great yes 100 how about you Jose final
thoughts sir um you know final thoughts and I'm going to go back to my roots uh this is
a shout out to Daddy's who to write on a labor-only basis
um do yourselves a favor uh take this the next 30 days to take one month uh it
doesn't have to be your busiest month and just start writing down the amount of money on stuff that that you're
buying and what you're using on a job um you know even if it's only a week whatever just just take a month break it
down per week find out what you what it costs you per week uh start looking at your rates and see how much money
um you're actually getting away or leaving on the table um because you don't have that calculated
um just do yourself a favor and this is a really simple thing to do just do yourself a favor get that number look at
your rates and and you'll start to see your breakdown um on profitability on the labor side
um that's just the best thing you can do with your labor only right now
agreed I I will add to that with my final thoughts of look at it as profit per effort
not always profit like on the on the other side I've had plenty
of guys give up awesome projects where they had made you know
because we know him we know what you know they've done work for before and the price per foot wasn't there but
the job layout and the material just the everything all the other intangibles were so perfect that they would have
made a real killing on it so look at the job uh compare your skills and look at
the profit per effort in a eight hour day or all bills paid can you make a lot
more money on a job that pays a little bit less on a from a square foot price
that's possible at the same time do the same when you're looking at the job this
goes both ways don't get yourself in your tit in a ringer by doing a bunch of little you know having some
pricing sheet that locks you into a price and then you're doing a bunch of 80 square foot kitchen that's in a hotel
for the same price that you did you know what I mean so look at it as profit per effort and at the end of the day kind of
like what Jose was uh aiming at there and I think he said it very well but
just to add to it is at the end of the day how much profit did you make like can you can you look
at that over the course 30 days and I think that'd be a great exercise and see
what you're actually profiting versus your true cost so yeah yeah
all right gentlemen as always I appreciate the the uh time you guys
spend here it's always enjoyable yeah I give a shout out to Dwayne I'm wearing my second favorite PF uh
Pruitt flooring I'm not sure that Kansas is right the last time I seen he was
over in Colorado installing some some stuff everywhere ain't nothing yeah nothing to
it but to prove it he should have put that on it he's gonna steal that from you or did
you is that his already no no I've been telling him back but I don't know when I came up with that probably we were at a
CFI event or something like that that's hilarious all right guys well
thank you guys so much and we will chat with you a little bit later all right take it easy next week bye everyone bye
The Huddle - Episode 48 - The Importance of Safety Protocol & OSHA Regulations
This week the guys talk about how important it is to follow proper safety protocol to minimize risk and injury on a jobsite.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
just my camera welcome foreign family
coming to you every Tuesday at three o'clock welcome to the huddle
here to talk about moving your flooring career forward now how was that for
jumbling the intro
what's up guys how are you good how you guys doing doing well
joining me as always as I try to rush into this podcast sorry
is Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids
Michigan we're here you're up there doing a flooring project or a construction job
and needs some Services these are your guys right there So today we're going to be talking about
the importance of safety and uh it's
kind of became a little bit bigger Topic in our in our industry uh several
news outlets or industry Publications have reached out about
writing some articles and such uh kind of safety oriented
and so I thought I would uh start this off by
uh asking you guys have you ever been visited by OSHA yes sir yes we have
I we have as well so I thought we'd share War Stories a little bit and then
um get into some of the the ways that we can maybe uh look to and
improve I know we have uh some some ways that we needed to improve so
tell me about your guys's visit what was the context and uh you don't have to name the project in fact don't name the
project we did good so I mean it was just one of
those random the most recent on one of the random business they were doing work outside on
the left and they just happened to be driving by on the way to another project not even this project so they did a
random inspection um and they came in and we didn't like everyone else who is in compliance does
we said everybody go on break I'll call you when it's time to come
back in yeah you know I wish I was joking about that but I had
no idea what to expect on that one right because it was a surprise but um we actually did pretty good uh they
came in and checked for us it was pretty simple they checked all of our cords they uh all of our connections they made
sure that that we were uh you know boots hard hat
um hi Biz uh I mean we were we were compliant
that day we were complying I would say that but but the project that we were on actually required that right so certain
projects require full PPE and um they have their own systems in place to help
make sure that everyone on site is within range of compliance for for
something like that do you guys um have your standard for safety and so you
get on a job site and the superintendent's not wearing a hard hat or whatever it's kind of relaxed uh
project in that manner do you guys still have your guys's standards or how
do you guys deal with that I think that's like
especially with hard hats and stuff it's been a big thing of mine because if I'm
wearing a hard hat and I'm kneeling down it's gonna hit the back of my neck anyways and then
done so what is the point when I'm working on my knees right when I get up yeah I'll
put it back on but there's got to be some give and take um as far as our standards we absolutely love the jobs
where they're more relaxed on everything and they can we can be more comfortable
but we have no problems you know going full PPE one of the guys just
poked in right before we started and he was like hey is this High Vis and everything today and we're like yep so
you know some of the guys we got high Bish shirts but they don't always wear them so we got
best um everyone has boots we got boxes of
safety glasses out there cut resistant gloves um hard hats
like nice Uh custom ones nice
yeah so it sounds you know we
always say show up like pull PPE if the job site is not
um you know showing any
like we still want work boots here's the non-negotiable items OSHA is going to
tell you hard hat safety glasses work boots long pants orange sleeve shirts
right that's pretty much the standard for OSHA the
art are non-negotiables is either a high Vis shirt or vest
pant long pants four inch sleeves and
um work boots that's that's what we want our guys to wear now I've caught plenty of guys in
tennis shoes when it's you know a really LAX job and it's really hard here's the the day it's
really hard to get on your guys when the superintendent and the Foreman's running around and you know tennis shoes and
stuff so it's it's it's a difficult thing the I wrote an article recently about
this that I think you know I'm going to send to the Publications but it talks about leadership the leadership and the
um if that it has to start up there uh from a safety perspective and I know as
flooring guys we enjoy the jobs and we always say you know if we got to
wear a hard hat job's not ready for us you know that's kind of been the Mantra
over the years but the truth is the way you described it Daniel is how a
lot of the even the really safety oriented unless we're on base and there's a Corps of engineer safety guy
and all this um it's it's kind of the way even our more
safety conscious projects allow us to be if we're in a room installing the floor
keep your hard hat right next to you keep your safety glasses on and and be
as as far as you can take it and keep your hard hat by you and just like you said Daniel if you get up
that hard hat goes on as soon as you stand up not as you're walking out of the room
and part of that I understand from the superintendent or a safety conscious
like a safety um you know a safety director or something
from a GC is they got to set precedence for everybody because not not the whole
a lot of times you know you finish projects off in wings or in sections or phases and you just can't have you know
one one trade walking around without hard hats that just is not set a good precedence but
um so I'll tell you about our safety one of our uh OSHA I think we've been visited
three times total in 20 years so not excessively
the last one was at a large Hospital job and we thankfully uh got through but
they almost got us on some chemicals we were using that we
didn't have MSDS sheets on denatured simple stuff though that not like your
adhesives we had all that and we actually had it in the work order and go Carrera so that worked perfect because
it had the job name and the documents were attached with the
job name and the job address the whole work so that worked perfect but we didn't have it for denatured alcohol
and we had some acetone on site just cleaning up marks and things like that
and because we didn't have the MSDS sheet thankfully I had a a a friend at
the GC firm that was like email it to me I'll print it off for you and put it in your folder in our office so that's the
thing though they want it printed out right for Visible for every everyone it just has to be accessible in in and it
has to have the job name uh and the address so like your binder a lot of
guys we used to put binders in their trucks with everything and then tell them to sort it and put a divider
two dividers that would make that section for that job
um that's we we it never went that far most the time they're looking like you
they're looking at the cords and things like that well this was such a safety conscious job that all that stuff was
easy it was just like you said it was the freaking uh
MSDS sheets that that almost got us it almost got us thankfully we got
through it but so there's a reminder that's that's a lesson for everybody if you have a chemical even goof off if
it's bigger than a the small thing if you got a pint of Goof Off you got to have a freaking MSDS sheet on site for
that right and then when we like um as an installer you don't really think
of this stuff because that's what we provide to the GCS before
we even stepped foot on site right they're that's what they're asking for they're like send us everything and then
it makes it easier on our part because if OSHA goes there they have everything
right there in the Job trailer anyways yeah so you have to have your copy
though you know that oh we have everything in the folder yeah so so so just in in
um and it always depends on who's going to the this guy was looking for something obviously like he was digging
pretty hard someone made him angry he was he was on
a mission that day and uh I was almost his victim
but we're joking around a little bit but
there are some important safety things like we want to be safety conscious as as
contractors and I I know that like in the Home Building world
there's there you know it may be lacks from a standpoint of of requirement from
the top down but there are standard things that for example
face shield or uh protective glasses if you're cutting tile or you're especially
if you're not using the wet saw if you're using a side grinder or a Makita
like the um small Makita four inch cutting wheel with the basically looks like a you know
a circular saw right um but if you're doing any of that kind of
thing or you're grinding concrete we want the guys to have proper you know face masks uh or respirators depending
on the the level using HEPA filters I know we've talked about that in the past uh hepavax and and dustless equipment as
much as possible even then you get a little bit of dust right but that's where you you have to
realize too where what OSHA's looking at in what you can grind on your hands and
knees versus what you can use a stand-up grinder for and then how many cfms your
vacuum has to be for the size of the grinder there's so much involved that people if you
don't read into it you just don't know yeah because that's part of the reason I
think to have an open discussion about it is to point out some of the pitfalls because
you know whether it's my my deal or for example like you just said what if you
don't have the right CFM on your vacuum for that stand up um grinder but it was fine for your
seven incher right or something right um so those types of deals you want to
look into most reasonable OSHA people and most
reasonable safety directors at GC firms as long as you have a good vacuum with a HEPA filter on it you're gonna they're
gonna kinda be okay with you um they but like I said you can get that
guy I mean I we we literally got very lucky we didn't get hit on that
deal and it was for acetone and denatured alcohol stuff we you buy at
Lowe's you know right that could have been something you were like oh let's go grab this real quick and it's just an afterthought well that's exactly what it
was you know the installer had it in his van wanted to clean off some marks off of his vinyl and different stuff I mean
you know um some of his pencil marks or or whatever um
and cleaning different I I don't even know all of what it was on the site for
but it came out of our one of our installers vans that you know they kept it in the van
from the either our supply closet or bought it at Lowe's or something and I
we a lot of times that's what the danger is and I just told our guys like hey if
you take something on site at least let us know and we can email the contractor uh an MSDS for it right I know it seems
ridiculous but this is why we have to do it right here this could have been a five thousand dollar fine for a freaking
28 dollar gallon of acetone you know
so there's um we haven't got got that like hit with
that every one of ours that we've been on they're just looking at um you know the chords uh We've even had
GCS that will walk around and anytime they've seen a chord that was you know
just a little Nick in it or you know one of the wires was sticking out this GC would walk around he'd unplug it and
he'd cut it yeah so you can't use it no more yeah we've had that happen and we
we kind of get ticked off uh because you know uh you can properly fix them
right but you're like well there goes that I got to get a whole new product because they never cut it like right oh
they cut it with it that much left at the from the plug and you can't do nothing about it so you got to buy a new
plug and redo the whole thing but uh and if you're using 10 gauge chords like we
do for our Grinders and stuff you get 100 foot 10 gauge cord that's a 200 cord
right so yeah I'm making sure that you inspect your your equipment before you take it
to site all your GFI stuff is all your cords are in good shape all of that kind
of thing um what do you guys think the uh number one
cause of death on job sites well
oh yeah number one cause do you guys do any high like uh tile work or anything like
that we haven't but we've worked in places where uh we had to wear a harness
anyways just because the the railing on the steps foreign
[Music] there's other things the gray area right right to wear harness
it's really hard unless you got the tie off point right and then um but but
things like like that is uh is really where we've ever come in contact or like Daniel said temporary railing or working
near an edge where the safety wheel is not complete yet even if um
there is a rail there but it's not the finished product they still wanted you harnessed off
wow yeah that's the we had uh one of our
more recent projects at a high school we were doing really large format I think it was three foot by five foot
um I think it was slim Slimline or uh slim panel uh forget
the name of it from Dao it wasn't a laminam but it was similar product and
you know we're up like 40 feet and have you heard how do you maneuver
on like well where it was a trick we had to rent two different Booms to get to be
able to get and one guy was operating one boom with just the slab and they'd
have to hand it off to the other guy to get it to get it up there
it was a feast it'd be behind you too yeah if everything behind you and sliding back and forth and
well the heart they were harnessed from the back were they okay yeah
yeah it becomes a challenge that's for sure in fact unfortunately I've been on a few
projects where you've witnessed a fall and it's it's never
it doesn't take much that's one thing people that I I have witnessed a
electrician fall off of a six foot ladder and it was it was not a pretty sight that's the boss and he was not on
the top or anything like maybe two two steps down so maybe his feet were four foot off the ground or so
and that which doesn't even require you to be tied off until six feet but uh
that was a nasty fall from four foot so like there's reasons for this stuff some
of it's a pain in the ass frankly but um the more safety conscious you are as
a company here's what I found for and and I would I would say this to
all flooring contractors be overly safety so that when your guys
so your guys are more aware like if you're safety training uh one of our
guys just finished another one of our guys I should say just finished from he had 10 hour and he just got his 30 hour
and you know we feel like it just keeps them aware
that doesn't mean they are the the guy with the hard hat vest and the whole works even on jobs that are like a Main
Street office that is a one-day job and the superintendent's running around in shorts you know but they're still that's
why I say well our non-negotiables are are a few things we still want the high Biz
and that's easy enough can you just buy shirts all of our shirts a high Vis and we have a few others that they can wear
uh it's kind of cool we actually caught one of the guys out at dinner with one of our shirts on it was like
representing um it's like bam most of our uh most of
our shirts are high Vis and all of the work shirts or Hive is so it makes that piece really simple
um and then obviously pants I don't care if it's I don't care the condition you're
not wearing shorts on our jobs like we've had certain Crews
um show up to job site with shorts and tennis shoes and we just it's not that's not even an
option so there's some non-negotiables that we should have as even as flooring guys
um like I said face shield or or glasses if you're cut tile um you know properly not throwing one of
my pet peeves is showing up on job site and they're being carpet blades or utility it's all over that essentially
especially right now when they come in a package where you can take your old blades and put it in the package as soon
as you refill your night yeah I just took one time for me and this is a lot of years ago when we were working in a
project in um here's my brother-in-law at the time um left a blade sitting on a handrail
and we were working in a a special needs facility and we went home for the day came back to in
the morning to a very upset um staff there that one of uh one of the
the young kids there had grabbed it and it looked like a stick of like a piece of gum because the square shape but his
mom to try to chew it up oh man nothing happened what
just like that that one right there like I was not a like I was uh put him in a
like if I had a gatorade bottle or something I was always like one of those guys but I was like oh I'll start a pile right
here on this window ledge and I'll pick him up after I'm done if I didn't have everything but after that it was like back in the night
um after I started wearing a Polish bag and right in my pouch or there's a place like or right directly in the trash can
but then you have to tell your guys watch your hand don't stick your hands in there it's way easier just to package them up and you're saying but put them
back in the package or take it you can find duct tape when you need it uh there you go the
coffee can I remember we had coffee cans back in the day I mean like there's ways to do it just find the best method that
you want and keep your blades cleaned up because that's probably you know Cuts in
our Industries one of the biggest um and then not just like you put them in
your pouch and you're reach in your pouch or whatever right so like just properly handling those but I'll tell
you my biggest um and this was before right before I started my company I was working for
another company and the one of the guys on the job site had a really bad habit
of sticking his his uh orange razor scraper in his back pocket
he spent a day in the hospital at the ER good brand new blade right right across
the wrist you put it with the blade up yep oh my God he didn't stick the blade down in his pocket it just cut his rear
end um you know or cut through his pocket or something no it was always blade up and
he just reach back and grab it well I forgot it you know problem with doing stuff like that is you get used to it he
got used to it being back there and forgot it was there and went to go grab some thought he had something else went
to go grab and it just bam he ended up uh I think he ended up out
of work for about four weeks that's bad yeah
so like be careful with razor scrapers
um you know some of the safety like guidelines if you if you've got been
through OSHA's training or any real safety training awareness is probably your best friend
in safety in my opinion like a lot can be uh avoided if you're on a big job
site we got a really big job site with cranes and they're moving uh
crap around all the time I was there a week ago looking at the substrate
like this this is something so we're gonna have to bring in a pump truck uh on a side note to pump like 70 000 foot
of uh at least half inch probably on average there's an inch
where literally inch and a quarter waves in this floor all the way through these units and it
gets lvt but um you know they were taking a porta John
over and I was like I also didn't want Pooh to get on me but I let that thing
go first you know just just be aware of your surroundings is is um you know it
would have saved the guy from cutting his wrist he just wasn't aware first off shouldn't be doing that in the first
place that's kind of a you know I'll just say that's a stupid thing to do but at the same time
I was stupid like that I used to put my before I carried a pouch no lie I put it on my blades in my back pocket and I
remember I did that out of my butt cheek and then I remember my utility line falling through the hole that it cut in
the back pocket and stabbed me in my cab as I was walking on the way like I felt it and I like moved real quick and then
something bit me a little bit but yeah oh man
um just and you know you thought you think that that would change someone's mind but that didn't right it just made
me start getting used to using my other pocket yeah like oh my pants are all bad on that side let me use my other pocket
um well so do you guys um do you guys have like yours what what do
you guys do for your safety do you do safety trainings we we do toolbox you know as job box cars and if
you have enough jobs it it works you don't have to do something special but if you guys do toolbox talks and all
that kind of thing yeah well we might be a little a little we might be slacking slightly because we've kind of uh the
crews kind of dwindle a little bit and and it's been project the project and kind of leaned on the uh
the leadership on site to go over all of that um and we are fortunate that we're working on a lot of repeat jobs with a
lot of repeat customers and we've already been through uh not only their safety um uh curriculum but then we go
through it ours before we go to their meeting go to their meeting and then they add to it
um so you know what maybe we better just retouch on some of that too because uh you get complacent yeah every once in a
while yeah particularly if there's a new guy I know that the our field superintendents uh will
do a toolbox talk in the middle of the week if we haven't had one for a job in a while or if there's a crew that hadn't
been on a job that has them where do you guys get your safety uh your toolbox talks Works work comp company
there you go if you don't know that uh any installer if you have an insurance
company they'll give you especially if you you should have work comp so
you will get they'll provide you with a whole host like hundreds and hundreds of
of different topics and just print them off and go over the topic and get it
signed and there you go they'll even help you with uh your own custom uh employee safety handbook safety handbook
[Music] and most of the literature is already readily available so it's just a matter
of picking and choosing what you want to put in yours and consolidating information it's super simple
so I'm gonna tell you one other story that we never got in trouble for that but made it really big
and I'm not going to tell you anything else except for the story but we had two
installers one had a tick tock account and uh he was filming one of our guys
had glued himself into a corner and grabbed a hold of a door
and swung himself over to
where the glue was not you know almost getting its fingers didn't get his fingers no harm no foul but
it he this other uh installer posted it on tick tock
by the time I was made aware of it it had 1.8 million views
and people were and he had this background song of something about uh I
forget the name of the song it was like a parody of a of a really popular song but it it said something like in a world
of yeah that yeah the Willy Wonka song right there you go
so that's the song that they had played and
at 1.8 I was like this was within a week
and this wasn't modern this was
right when I mean maybe two years ago maybe Tech talk was a couple years old
at that point or a year old something like that so it wasn't like today a 1.8 million
views or 1.7 million views is is still a lot but it's not out of this world
that's pretty out of this world if you think about it back then and um anyway so we had him take it down
obviously and uh said you know guys it would have been just as
easy to leave your path out at the door glue that little bit with the rest of
the room that you had to finish anyway no need in having us you didn't have to
have a straight line you couldn't zigzag your lvt and not have to worry about it but yeah so just I might be a little
jealous that he was able to hold on the door and swing because I know that if I did the heavy fail I'd be on the field
you be in the glue yeah like
well I thought you know safety is never like the funnest conversation to have but I I thought we
could just challenge each other from asking those types of questions of what is your safety protocol you know what
what are the the what are the things that you guys want
from your cruise on site regardless of whether or not is it the same is it
pants and a foreign sleeves or is if it's really like a lacks can they wear
tank tops nope you guys kind of have are the sleeves or pants 100 uniform always
with the company logo um I mean there are instances where it's like
you know it gets cold outside they wore a short sleeve shirt or and and they're cold so they have to wear a jacket or
something like that but we we do try to provide apparel for all um
for all weather I mean we don't work outside so we don't have uh overalls or anything like that but we try to make it
so it's hard for anyone not to have something preferred flooring on the job
site right like and then all your stuff is checks all the boxes for safety anyways yes and
the the the vest and the hive is I think that's the the hardest one because like we did
notice that depending on the color by this it does retain some smell
um and I don't know why that is but it does unsure on your shirts on your shirts yes depending on the material and
the color I think uh cotton High Vis yellow and cotton
um retained more smell so I mean it it's hard to work with someone when they
smell like a bag a bag of dirty rags and it's not their fault right and I haven't
ran into that with ours the fluorescent or maybe I just stink I
don't know but uh you try to have all that in place
because you want to make sure that you're representing and you want separation right and you want if something were to happen you want to be
able to be recognizable by some of the other experience hey that's preferred flooring you know what I don't
know who that is right we're in a AC DC shirt and yeah you know it's just you
know I think well that's not only unprofessional it's also distracting and that's why they don't they don't most
safety directors don't want it on their job sites you know and and I think identifying an individual and as to what
company they are is also part of safety as well you need to be able to identify and create
separation well who do I go to if this guy gets hurt if I don't know who he works for right yeah that's part of it
so do you guys uh another so I asked you what was the number one
cause of death do you know what the number one cause for injury is
lifting you guys are like did you did you read like did you guys get my article from
Ashland or something oh really is it how it is it's lifting
so good we we do one of the biggest things and we've probably got a little lacks on
this occasionally as well but proper lifting of like sheep vinyl rolls
and stuff like that moving those things like there's an art to this there is an art
and we have some stories about that and you're absolutely right like if you don't know anything about center of
gravity and balance like there's an arch of that and many many of people that worked with us
alongside us including ourselves have avoided injury like that thing will break your leg like bam
if you're not doing it right it'll break anything yeah so we we when we do our
classes on lifting of sheet vinyl because you don't always have like you
know anything fancy on a job site to pick it up and move it around you got to get it up and on to at least on a cart
or something if you're going to move it to the far distance and one of the things we try to make sure of
is first off when you're storing it store it together tight and band it together it's much
less likely to fall don't just store one roll here and then a foot away another roll and a foot of
the way another roll if it's going to be stored there for any minute any length of time because you guys know you don't
you don't have to hit it that hard to knock it over and when it's coming down
baby you better be really strong if you think you're gonna stop from hitting the floor
I would say uh forget about strength or just learn how to move out of the way so that's the second Point actually is when
you are moving it's one guy in front one guy in back everybody else the heck out of the way and know where your points
are like if it falls that something that you're not destroying something so
um leaning it in a direction and if it gets away from you get the hell out of it yes 100 that's just let it fall and
just just know like if you guys are moving it know that drywall uh paints all that stuff is a
lot easier to repair than your body yeah if you're aware when you're moving it you can even avoid damaging other stuff
and it'll just fall out in the concrete sometimes it's unavoidable but the best thing I don't care about you know
replacing a a piece of sheetrock or a window at the end of the day if it's got
to do with someone's you know health so we do we teach proper handling of that
and then proper lifting you know I used to do a ton of VCT that's not as big of
a deal anymore but a pound or a box of ECT was 63.5 pounds and you move
30 40 000 square foot in a day you know maybe install 10 and you're
shuffling 10 and stage in 10 and I mean that's a lot of lifting so learning to
lift properly and make sure that you're using your legs and if you need a back brace we
have back braces and all this other stuff but really a technique is gonna out like there's no equipment that's
going to save you from Bad Technique No No and any any young cats out there
starting I would say take care of your body
back brace your number one don't eat it your number one tour remember your body your body yeah that's right like put on a bag I remember
unloading two truckloads of VCT and we were getting
you know getting the into the groove and then all it takes is one person oh let
me ship this box and you go to reach the other one the other guy's already letting it go out of the truck I remember him dropping on the truck
driver's fingers and that dude's finger is exploding and he goes ah and then it's like
that sounds a long time ago but that's all it took like and Jorge says that uh
you know paying attention to inflammation and and you know nerves in your in your back and stuff because even
the smallest little lifting or something can mess you up lifting and twisting
like um you know he does a lot of a lot of problematic eye and carpet that sounds pretty heavy probably rolling up
hold it in the head try to strap it on so one person can carry a big roll lift and twist is very very well and
lifting broad Loom is another you know that's probably where most because we do
so little of it anymore but man I tell you what that that's an art as well how
do you pick up a 35 foot drop on your shoulder with two guys right walking up
and let it Let It Drop right we have a video like a little short on YouTube
where we went and got a bunch of the the things that they use for appliance they
you know put it over the appliance and put it on your forearms we got a bunch of those straps and there's like eight people carrying what were they 125 foot
rolls or something into a church yeah somebody was making fun of that being
done like that but they were like just lifted up and you know what we've been there done that man and and we had to find an easy way
to do it we had to go up and down steps and through between the pews and in the
walkway like there's it had to be very controlled because of all the old woodwork that was through that facility through that church well
and how how heavy it was geez I mean 125 foot roll weighs 800 pounds probably depending on the ounce weight you know I
mean seven eight hundred pounds that's a lot of weight and you got a lot of you
know safety is really about like preserving your health long time that's how I look at it for flooring not just
an injury but long term how do you save your knees how do you
save your back how do you save your neck those those things that you that we
experience injury long term you know whatever that's called uh where the the
effects of daily use of that of your knees
you know it goes from if you start with all the safety regulations and requirements for from
from OSHA on down it really all goes back to self-preservation right like you're
preventative maintenance preventative health that's what you're trying to do you're trying to prevent
uh injury bodily harm I mean you're gonna get hurt at some point when you're in construction that's why the standards
are there because why do you have to wear a harness because someone fell at one point they don't want anyone to fall
again why do we wear knee pads because at some point someone was like my knees kind of
hurt let me invent something to so my knees don't hurt as bad I can't keep getting ready yeah you got your your job
your prod you know your trade specific items um in general you know you got hard hats
iron face protection High Vis respirators hearing protection hand protection and foot protection
the one that um to me is most abused
is hearing protection but it's not in the way well it's probably the way you think guys wearing
earbuds or earphones listening to music and calling that hearing protection and I'm like
first off those earbuds are not doing the you know they probably help
but they're causing more harm by you not being able to hear the the other people right like ear
muffs are it should be used sparingly when you're doing the work don't walk
around a job site with ear muffs on you know so you can you could take a
piece of safety equipment that's meant to my the whole point is you could take a piece of safety equipment that's meant
to help you and and protect you and turn it into a hazard if you're walking
around job site with earmuffs on and you can't hear someone yelling at you to get out of the way for something
right and and there's um some of the contractors around here too are no more headphones at all yeah like
at all not even the earbuds not especially not the big hit but like the over the air yeah like the bows the
full-on you know like noise canceling headphones I mean come on SO and that's
one thing too like it's always been a pet pee [Music]
it had like hey Daniel hey Daniel then you know that's when you know all safety out you grab your knife you throw at him
because he's not listening no I'm just playing but um so so the that part I understand like
you're right the safety you gotta hear hey watch out you know hey or somebody's backing up but then
I started using a headset for talking on the phone instead of working and having to stop
but I would only put one in that that's we're okay with like a single earbud but
we don't want you listening to music uh unless it's like and we know it's
gonna happen but we try to say like just think of yourself a lot of safety is
trying to ingrain the idea of safety it's not just doing the act because you have to do the ACT it's
I I try to approach it I know our guys try to approach it
that are really in charge of safety for us try to approach it to teach you why
you need to do this what why is it so important like if you're gonna listen to music
I mean what am I going to do walk up to every guy and like you know of they're probably listed music but
keep it at a level where you can hear other people and only one ear butt in period if you're gonna listen to if
you're going to have an Air Bud in because a lot of people do that with their phone so they don't just like you said they don't have to stop pick up the
phone they can just go hello you know um but and that's I get it but at the
same time uh we got to be somewhat safety conscious so trying to just ingrain the idea of safety and the the
whys behind each reason and then let each guy use some common sense because all this can
go out the window without common sense I mean you know
so gloves wear gloves whenever you can I like I I did appreciate all the work I
put into my counselors at one point and I took pride and shaking someone's hand and my hand feeling like an absolute
Rock I love gorilla hands yeah I loved it when they said something like that
was a compliment to my hard work when they said that but I also remember working two hours
away from Daniel by myself tearing up ceramic uh and trying to be quiet in a bank and in my hand no gloves in my hand
going through all the showers and I'm cutting I cut myself to the to the Bone and I called it
I don't know if I'm gonna finish this this is what happened and I remember it called me walking up hey uh Where's the restroom yeah this is this is when we
first started and we were both on projects by ourselves it's like
that's actually a really good point and and most tile guys know it but if you're
just demo and tile and maybe you're not a tile guy that's ever been cut down uh I've certainly been cut by porcelain
tile that's broken and it wasn't my first time it's a razor sharp
razor sharp so if you're uh if you are a
um you know entry-level Apprentice or new guy doing some demo on tile uh wear
gloves and still be careful right and that's why we got you know I always buy
them when they go on sale I'll buy a bunch of them and we just have a toad out there we got cut resistant gloves we
have work glove we have uh insulated gloves for in the winter time when we're loading and unloading
yeah and cut resistant gloves has come a long way from the first time I ever put one on until now
um they've come a long way we we like to give them to like the
the brand brand new people like here goes your gloves because it's just
changing a scraper blade we that's where I got a car right here from just going like this and then it slips and then
boom that's all yeah there there's a lot of silliness that happens I you know
um I was cleaning up just a patching trial once oh
and I'd used it all day and my dumbass oh it hurts so bad and it gives me the
cringy I bet you that wasn't the only time you've done it either no don't help
me out but no it wasn't the crazy part is the first time is always the worst and the second time it's not as bad but
you're like oh I should have known the third time you're like I'm dumb if it gets it good enough you're like that's
the last time I'm doing that that was the last time because I cut the tar out of my thumb just trying to pull
chunks of Pat you know just get the thick patch off so I could wash it and man
with the water and the metal it's used rags in a water bucket to clean our
trowels until like cut after cut it's like all right dude something's got then we got the the brushes with the long
hair yeah the brushes and that's best way yeah it is it is that's that's
we don't show anyone else how to clean it besides like that so in challenging ourselves would you
guys say you have a culture of safety
I would say that I don't want to say culture right because that means that it's all
encompassing that means that we Embrace every aspect of it 100 of the time but I would say that we make sure that we
are implementing safety all the time like yeah I I say we're cognizant not culture
yeah yeah there you go there you go it's like the culture is is definitely
is that because we're flooring guys I think it is to be honest with you because I feel like uh I take uh uh you
know a leadership kind of stance on a lot of this stuff but as safety
conscious as I am and I use the word conscious because that's what I feel like our company is but to have it as
part of our culture um I feel like we'd have to take more steps
and more steps in the direction of of teeth
of enforcement probably um enforcement's important though
because the the one thing I didn't say is the guy that had the scraper in the
back of his pocket uh our foreman
other people he was a mechanic there was a form uh uh project format on this
project as a big high school um we made fun of them like
joked about it like yeah you're gonna cut your you know you can cut your arm off someday or
watch out you're gonna shave your back stuff like that yeah and but never said it take the freaking
scraper out of your pocket right like I was only 22 so I'm not trying to give
myself an excuse but I was a little bit fearful so I would say one part of the
culture should be nobody should be fired for filing a safety concern about
somebody else no matter who that is that's it right there a safety concern right like it's not a complaint it's a
concern it is is out of concern for someone else's safety your safety that's
that's a really good way to put it um and if someone's being unsafe on a job site
I want people to feel comfortable enough to say something without the fear of being fired or some
level of retaliation well that that's where you know that's why we say we're a team right we're not it's not I'm gonna
go snitch on you because you're doing this it's hey we're going to talk about this because this needs to be fixed right like this
this isn't safe how can we fix it and it's not like I'm calling you out because you were doing this wrong it's
hey we've always maybe we've always done it this way I don't like the way it's happening what
can we do to change it yeah if you can if you can and Empower them to have some
self-governance meaning the 22 year old brand new kid that just got out of you
know a 10-week course or something and a portion of that was safety and then he goes to your job and a mechanic's doing
something unsafe or you know a full-fledged journeyman or something it's doing something unsafe you want
that new guy to have the the the uh Power to say something to him
without him getting retaliated against that's a that's the trickiest thing with safety I think because
what old dude's gonna listen to this new cat right they always get this attitude
we've watched it happen and I'm like hey man he either cares about his own safety or he cares about yours and either way
it's a it's he should say something no he's just a pompous little that's
what I got back let's see it over and over again right and the biggest one um
lately for me has been the silica standard because you got all these guys out I
breathe asbestos for years and I'm fine you guys can get you know silica is nothing and it's like that's not the
point it's we know that it causes health issues let's do everything we can to keep
everyone healthy and it's not just it's not just you know everyone else it's yourself included like
and if you don't care about yourself at least start caring about others other people yeah
like if someone has an underlying issue that they don't even know about yet and you're kicking up all that dust and
makes you know that they have a reaction to to the silica or something that's
Airborne like if they have a reaction inside we don't know what's going to happen
like we don't know that I don't know if someone like I just met a uh my son's a
baseball coach we made some food we brought it to one of the games and had onions and he said
does it have onions and I'm like well yeah this is guac yeah it's got onions in there he's like well I'm allergic I'm
like like I wouldn't I wouldn't I've never met anybody other onion so I don't think of it right in the peanut butter thing
but it's the same thing someone might have just a bad reaction uh to to something that's in the the Airborne
contaminants well and the the other thing is
um as part of the why like you know if asbestos was heavier it
wouldn't be near as dangerous but you know a particle of his best this takes like 24 hours to fall six feet in Dead Space
so it stays right around this face right so once it kicks up
for an hour before it even Falls to your chin you know like
it takes an hour for it to fall this far basically right silica isn't is heavier so and it's a
different uh shape of a particle so it falls faster but not that's a problem with silica too is it's
it's still very light and it it falls very slowly that's part of the danger it's there's
plenty of things in this world that'll give you cancer and cause you problems but they're away from you you know part
of the problem is how slow these particles fall so the point being here is if you kick up dust
if you kick up asbestos which if you're messing with asbestos then you need to
be licensed to mess with it but point is is with the silica is you're
caught you can cause people harm that you when you think they're not in harm you know you got that's why the why to
me is so important them understanding why why we use this HEPA equipment you
know it's not just concrete dust it's like you gotta understand what this stuff does and then
you can kind of get your head wrapped around why it's so important that hey maybe we should protect ourselves a
little bit better hey another another added bonus to the whole silica thing is that it made made us realize
how much how many times we were cleaning the same dust storm right so now that
you have to be more careful at cleaning up I the residual that's left over is a
lot less and you're a lot less likely to clean up again the next day you know you create a dust arm you clean up you're
like we're all good for tomorrow come in Start Spreading glue you come the next day you go like this and it's like yeah
like it's crazy yeah my very first day on the on any job site I got kicked off
I think I may have told you guys this story but I got some good old-fashioned flooring hazing going on you know go
grab the tile stretcher kind of and it was instead of that though they gave
me a broom and sent me into the sanctuary of a church that had all this wood these wood beams oh
and they were all finished and and perfectly clean all that was left was to lay the carpet
and the the guy sent me in and said hey go go sweep that room well the kitchen room yeah like I'd never even I mean
outside of sweeping a garage floor or something I had never right I didn't know the process of how to keep the dust
down let alone I shouldn't have been sweeping that floor anyway I should have vacuumed it but they are like go sweep
that floor I went in there and I'm just like
I sucked enough silica that day for all of us my nose had it my I had it in my ears I
had eye boogers that were like crusty black you know Brown I mean I was
coughing the crap up um and I got kicked off the job site because super antenna come in there and
called me the dumbest MF where he's ever met through me off the job site first time
somebody told me to grab a sweeping compound it's the same thing like go and grab the the vinyl or the whatever the
base stretcher sweeping combo why am I gonna throw stuff on the floor to sweep it back up that sounds so stupid it's
not one dusted the place out they're like Dude Where's the sleeping cup I'm like what are you talking I'm not falling for that they're like no
seriously it's it's a real thing I'm like oh oh you
guys gotta stop playing jokes on everybody like I didn't know that's the one they didn't I mean that you know
the uh all oil-based sweeping compound not to get off the safety subject but
don't use that no no use the wax stuff but the the
you know I don't I know we're not I feel like we're pretty good because we
get a lot of like just hit uh stop streaming I gotta take off I gotta get my son to his game
so good luck just hit stop streaming when you're done see ya see you Daniel
um so I feel I think we're pretty good and you know we show up on site with we
always say just show up as if you're going to uh fully PPE job and then if
the superintendent is dressed a certain way match match your Foreman or the the
project superintendent right um but I think you know we gotta look past
just what is enforced and encourage them to look
around if there's overhead work please wear your hard hat even if superintendent's not it's just not worth
it one elbow off of a fire sprinkler you know weighs three pounds falling from 30
feet I'll at least knock you out if not you
know and give you a heck of a good gash like think of your people um and I I know how much flooring guys
hate this subject too so I mean but it's so important uh there's that it is
necessary it is necessary and and protecting yourself from long-term harm but also
that short-term harm and so that's why I feel like we do pretty good but from a
overall like construction standpoint I think just flooring in general is a
little bit behind you know well we're way behind we're not just a little bit we're way behind and that's only
we most of the flooring installers are individual sole Proprietors right uh
subcontractors Independents Independence they don't they don't think about uh uh
having to maintain a program that will that could facilitate 10 20 30 40 people
and that's what it is once you start getting into that and you have to start worrying about more than just yourself
that's where a lot of that comes into place and um you know larger companies like share
your information with your um with your with your subcontractor do it with your subs it's one of the trainings you can
do and not getting any trouble from like employee employer training type stuff
crossing any lines there safety trains the one you can do with your with like
that's why GCS can do it with us right they don't send us to learn how to lay sheet vinyl nor could they even if they
wanted to right but they can do safety trainings with us so safety training is
one of those things you can do with your subs you can do with your you you should be doing it with everybody as much as
you can that's where I think the toolbox talks and if you have some safety conscious projects it comes in real
Handy to you know have some consistency in those in those meetings
um so what do you guys uh just to close this out is there anything that we've
talked about that kind of made you say um we need to get a little bit better at that
yeah I think it's just more or less uh being more consistent with the conversation and making sure that that
we're uh um stirring up the dust again the dust the safety talk right like
uh I I know like it's always fresh in my mind and whenever I'm showing somebody
something or we're talking about it I always bring it up but as far as going over specifics and being more consistent
on it like a on a schedule with it and say hey guys this is you know this is
Safety Week of you know every month or hey this is every
every other Wednesday should have a safety day you know what I mean just just so that way it's fresh and then
that's a good idea like do once a month or once a a week just like a
safety refresher even right like who who's who's not being safe who is being
safe who's making sure that it's uh implemented who's making sure that you have what you need when you're
forgetting to be saved right like and I think it's really important because as we I'm going to close out
with this because we are I can't believe how fast time goes sometimes but uh
if if everybody's successful in getting more new blood into the industry those
guys have to act in a safe manner they're going to hurt themselves or somebody else so your your supervisors
and your your the best thing you can do is make sure that everybody takes a
leadership role in safety be conscious and understand that just because the
superintendent's not wearing a hard hat look around you assess the situation put one on if you
if you feel like it's the best thing to have one on even even if it's not you're
not going to get in trouble for not having it um you know a lot of the electricians
and plumbers and the bigger trades um you know they wear it all the time dude
like it's just part of their work gear and I get it flooring you know certain
word a lot further down the road on a project so that's part of our reluctancy
I think and then the fact is is we're on our knees all day and having a hard hat on kind of sucks and so does safety
glasses they're always sliding down and getting in her way um they have what they call them bump
caps is that what they call them they're a little bit smaller um made for not in in the beginning stages of a
project but we'll get one that fits for you and and I've had the big gaudy ones and I've had the smaller ones and I tell
you what from from being a finisher going in there in a project the smaller ones are more up my alley anyway I'm not
bumping my head I'm under I bump my head a lot of things um
yeah they got they got them the size of like almost the size of bike helmets that are really tight in your head so
yeah comfortable um they even have the ones we had to buy
them for one project that required chin straps oh really oh wow
so I mean of course our old guys are like that's
fine unless something hits it and takes it off and then I'm you know it's choking me to death or rip my freaking
hell head off I'm like okay you kind of gotta can you just take your carpet knife out and you cut the strap right
okay let's not say don't listen to me guys I'm sorry rewind strike that yeah edit that
all right my man well we've come to the end here I want to thank you guys again for for being on and and as always uh
bringing some good content if you're watching this on YouTube please like subscribe
um we do this every Tuesday we don't have sponsors we don't have any of that we just come to you with some industry
knowledge a lot of years I've ins I installed right out of high school basically these guys been installing a
long time so we got a lot of uh experience and uh you know a few OSHA
visits under our belts so you know we um we hope you take this serious even
though we know it's a subject that isn't um you know the the probably funnest to
talk about nor the the the one that people that flooring guys like uh I was
eating lunch earlier and three hardwood guys walked in literally with tennis shoes and and and shorts on
and I was like I'm gonna be talking about that this afternoon and all jokes aside I know I have a lot of jokes when
it comes to safety and all that but it it's um it's one of those things you make a joke and it resonates with someone because they'll remember the
joke and then they'll relate it to the conversation but
when you're the one helping everyone learn the safety and every time you teach someone something about safety in
the flooring industry and you have a story about how dumb you were at one point and didn't follow it that's not
good guys like I know that I'm one of those guys that's not good to have this this is why this is in the book you know
this is yeah it's a serious matter and and one we should try as an industry to
take a step forward on um overall just representing as
construction one of the things we gripe about in flooring is not being uh respected as much as we used to be when
we walk on job sites or as much as some other trades sometimes or this is another way like show you're
serious about your your your safety and the safety of others and show that you're concerned about safety overall
and that you have a some level of a safety program some
um if you work for a shop and you're an installer talk to them maybe they'll put
on a safety seminar um I know we certainly do and and um
just not as often as we should so that's where I think we can get better as well so
all right my brother it's great seeing you again loved it appreciate everything
and we will see you next week all right man have a good one all right see you man
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 47 - The Impact of Technology on the Flooring Industry
This week the guys are back to talk about technology in the flooring industry, from cell phones to tools they reminisce on installing without technology and how it has affected today’s installers
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
flooring family welcome everybody to the Huddle we're coming to you every Wednesday
no I lied Tuesday at 3 P.M Central Rick James
Rick James can't say the rest uh
uh so we're here to you know continue the discussion every week about how to
maintain forward progress in your flooring career so this week with me as always Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from
preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan that's true and uh we're going to talk
about the impact of technology on the flooring industry that being said not just
uh one technology there's been a lot of of things that have heavily impacted our
industry with uh taking solvents out of our
adhesive so we'll be flooring nerds for a few minutes here and discuss that
um you know back in the 90s or whatever when they uh I guess it was early 90s
late 80s they started taking Sullivan's out of our adhesives
um really driven by the EPA to reduce you know solvent-based materials going
into landfills were you guys
yeah no for people who are listening did you guys uh install back in the mid
90s late 90s late 90s like late like late late 90s last two years do you happen to
remember like unitary backing on carpet yeah oh yeah
and leave what's that please please backing the
the yeah yeah that that that old wax back or fiberglass backed lease carpet is uh
obviously they got bought by Mohawk but um and that was always a dreaded
material to be honest with you as an installer uh even whether it was the
fact that the stuff just gathered on your knife and it was hard to keep a clean blade or or you
know stretching or to run a row it's hard to steam up run in a row the whole
the whole bit but I ask that because the unitary backings you know when they took
the secondary backing off and the the glue that that product came out and the
reason they had that product just to digress for a moment was to uh help
eliminate or reduce zippering when a thread was pulled on a broad and carpet
it had a really high PSI you know when you hook a hook a
um I'd make stuff up if I knew the piece of equipment like I'll call it a micrometer
that's completely wrong but you know to test how much how many pounds it took to
pull out a loop it you know the unitaries had I think it was 25 pounds in regular action back had eight like
eight pounds or six pounds or something like that to pull out a loop oh after it was adhered to the floor
in general oh really yeah but that all happened about the time
they took the the solvents out of the adhesives and so then these weaker adhesives
you had to add so much adhesive to that unitary backing to just get it to stick to the floor
um I guess I I was just seeing if you guys experienced that at all we we had one one heck of a time with with that
product but that being said once they took our our solvents out of our adhesives they got much weaker and they
didn't really have a technology to backfill it like to just come in with a great adhesive product do you guys um
have any War Stories so um the person I do remember when so back
then when when when I started that was I was still brand new like as far as the science behind everything Oblivion
totally oblivious right but I do remember when the adhesives changed because we went from what we were
calling premium adhesives to this other stuff that was skinning over and it just wasn't holding its attack anymore and
um you know I didn't I obviously didn't know why back then so I was kind of following uh the lead and uh
it actually didn't make sense to me for for years later uh as to what happened but uh
I just remember not being able to get away with blood anymore because that adhesive wasn't going to stay tacky for so long I couldn't come back and throw a
little bit of Steam on something and and re-situated peace or re-situate the pattern it was it was in stone brother
and we couldn't dry it dried out real quick too slide out yeah yeah the
difference from from concrete to Wood substrate as well like it's like man what is going on here
plenty of times uh go even today you go pull up you an old carpet you can tell
which one had if it was an old solvent adhesive because it's still got some tack to it still got some grip
and then the you know old water-based adhesives that were new at that time uh
really crystallized and dry out and it's like you can scratch it off the concrete off the substrate with your fingernail
so the Improvement of that you know I think today we we all have our favorite
adhesives uh which we might name drop a few
um that they've gotten way better at you know their their technology and that's been a big Improvement
um because right along with that when you take solvents out now you also have
much um a much more sensitive floor to
moisture and so we've dealt with all those things and
at this juncture you know there's plenty of new
adhesives out to go 99 you know I think some even um you know
claim to go up to 100 RH yth so
let's name drop what's your favorite pressure sensitive High RH adhesive guys
oh we just uh we just got done using some for for a project that we did about if you want two weeks ago
technically it's not pressure sensitive though but he's talking about uh Taylor resolute
which is the no moisture testing needed but
you you do have to realize that when you get into these thing these adhesives where you don't have to test the
moisture what ends up happening is there's a process involved right because anything underneath that can be affected
by moisture has to be gone yeah yeah so you can't go over old
Crete uh or old gypsum based white floor patch
yeah remove everything yeah so you know technically you're supposed to get down to the concrete right because any patch
that's on there anyways is technically not moisture resistant like uh the Ardex mrf or the utsine 890 so in
order to you know uphold the warranty on everything you also have to get down to that concrete and then use a prep that's
going to be resistant to that moisture as well yeah good point and that's that's newer
too if you look at that that yeah you know 100 percentage
I think anything less than five years old is still brand new right like that's still brand new like
some people are still won't uh some people might not even know that some of that stuff exists yet and that's
that sucks to say like that but it's very true um anything under five years old is still
brand new with my nuts yeah but I I think that the technology man my screen sorry is really
whitewashing out because my white shirt sorry guys uh because of your skin my bad
it's my teeth you've got a better chance my early smile uh
well you know what I mean at it's that's true that it's new but did
it change did it actually help the industry kind of uh I think the water you know higher
moisture resistant patches and and adhesives have been a huge you know game
changer for most companies that have been through that that time period where
you used solvent base adhesives I mean I literally used to use it was um I
believe it was parabond 4023 it was a robot and
that stuff got replaced by 40.99 which was the Gold Label uh water soluble
stuff and we had a whole bunch of buckets that the company I was working for had bought
and we were still using that for so probably a good year after they quit
selling it it was so good that you as as our stock went down
you kind of had to make this judgment call like do I want to use this up you
know like that last bite of really good pie or something is this job Worth to
use it on right now yeah yeah it was that big of a difference between the two so
what other Technologies we got tools what do you guys think of uh
Justin to name a few I I think you know the demo machines have been around for a long time so that that right there in
itself was um a little demo that we've done by hand in
one inch strips or just pulling the trying to pull the carpet off and just
pulling the the the layers the the Naps with the fibers would stay glued down
but you'd be pulling the scrim through the fibers because it's so stuck um and it's just uh
I don't know man like the machine worth its way to go there's so much though I don't know where to start and stop on
that there's just so much uh lasers we don't have to start stuff nowhere we're starting on demo machines and we're
gonna go all the way through to dustless tile sauce because you think about the
the demo machines and then you get back to unitary back because once you tried ripping that up it was just stringing
right yeah it was like you might it was a pain in the butt and then it'd pop you
in the knuckles better wear gloves yeah all that kind of stuff well even now the demo machines from the right arm that we
bought I feel like we just bought it but it was a long time ago um our oldest one till now now they have
the radio control ones where an operator doesn't have to sit on the thing anymore
um and operate it like like come on uh I mean I'm just jealous because I don't
have one but those uh I just can't I can't remember the last
time we didn't have a demo machine well you know those really got popular
in the early 2000s mid 2000s I is you
know when they really started um I think that's when National kind of got
into that game pretty heavy I'm sure the Bronco was around I've seen some Bronco
machines that look like they were made in 1950 so I don't know how long those
have been around but they weren't an everyday machine that people bought I
mean when I was installing the company I worked for I was an
employee installer but they didn't have they didn't have any demo machines and
they were one of the larger companies around at the time um you know now heck I know installers
that have these things right just started uh with the red shaker box is what we called it ripping out entire
grocery stores with it it was straight up not a good time was that the Bronco
no it was the no the hand the walk behind oh yeah with the weight on the
front that it just had a screw that you tighten and then it would fall off every five minutes yeah it was incredibly loud
and and uh somewhat inefficient I'll tell you another one and then the orange one
I'll tell you another tool that's a handheld that does a wonderful job and I don't know when they started making
these do you guys know when they started making little Eddies no I don't
you know we we found those uh oddly enough you know Home Depot was
rents them and I think we rented the first one I was like why in the hell don't we own some of these there are
like what you're talking about it's it's comparable to like the little
uh wolf that we got oh it's like the Duro yeah okay it's like that but shaped a little
bit differently and yeah it's basically basically you know
it's got a a pole on the end of a of a motorized it it spin I forget the
um RPMs on it but it speeds at an incredibly high RPM the vibration is so high okay it's not as loud and that
thing for a handheld um
is really really effective and then
you guys work with um
the stubby right you want to tell us a little bit about that oh yeah The Flash
Cove roller rights real specialized tool except for uh once you once you get it you start using it for everything it's
uh comes in a few sizes they have the cap roller as well and then the corner
roller and then two uh sizes for the code the coast depending on what size you're using
but I actually um the the inventor's name is Daniel as
well he's from Australia and he was posting about him and I was like you know what
we do flash cove all the time let me see what they're about so uh I bought a couple of them started using them and I
was like yeah this is probably something that needs to be more in solid hands so we just uh bought a bunch of them and we
started selling them on the website and I mean everyone that has one loves it I
have never had a complaint on them um it seems like they've come out with some more right some different horror uh
profiles and stuff actually you have one for the actual The Cove cat that you tucked the vinyl into and then um one
for the corners so if you like to not have your seam right in the corner and
you like to fold it I think they they do that a lot overseas so
yeah I mean on the inside corner you'd almost kind of reverse butterfly it yep
gotcha yeah I've never done an inside corner
that way me either but uh easier to weld I bet
[Laughter] even though it's at an angle it's still a flat surface if you if you reverse
butterfly that thing I don't know huh it comes down to that
point though yeah it comes down to sneaking it behind that that cat yeah
true well the looks like I went ahead and looked it up because I was curious
little Eddie came out in 91. yeah this uh Danny right here on YouTube says that
he's been using Eddie's for 25 years man yeah they are awesome for a little
handheld demo machines they work wonders and it's one of those tools that you
don't know it exists and then once you finally get your hands on one you're like how did we live our lives without
this thing yeah and if you're one of our guys you're like how can I modify this thing so our guys take the handle
because they're gonna handle it yeah they take that off and put a kicker
the butt of a kicker on it so they can lean on it but they can lean on it yeah good idea
instead of pushing with your hand you can just yep lean on it and yeah
whatever the uh the first demo machine we actually purchased that was a game changer for us besides just like renting
the red shaker box but on Craigslist I found an old original Turbo for sale for
a hundred bucks and I was like what and it was I remember it was out in Cedar Springs
there was uh about 30 minutes north of Grand Rapids and I told Daniel I said dude I have to leave work and go get
this because we need this and it's 100 bucks he was like yeah bye
so I went out there it turned on and I was like uh would you take 80 for it and the guy looked at me said you and I both
know what this thing is worth less than 100 bucks I said you're right I'm sorry here you go still trying to
get a deal on a deal my man yeah man I think we we made that
we made our money back the first time I rented that out to someone [Music] ah so what do you all what what's
happening cool Technology's been like real game changer for you outside demo
machines and the stubby the d-cut for Millwork bass amen thank you for
bringing that up it wasn't even in my head yeah but dang that thing has changed not only the way you install
the you know Millwork Base or um but the efficiency and the clean
cleanliness yeah and and not happen to have you know a extension cord and a
chop saw with you that was that was a game changer or
setting up somewhere you know centrally located at the job and then everyone
walking back and forth you just drag it with you make your Cuts as you go yeah the D cutter and they have a base D
cutter too right I think uh outside of the Millworks don't they make the the
one that does the um the outside corner outside corner yeah we have one uh
test it out do you guys use it I don't know if I'm a fan I messed with it a
little bit and I just found that it it I think it worked great for a new guy
I know you go right there I mean I think you give a new guy that and it's kind of foolproof
um but man an experienced guy with a knife I think at least for me it was so
much faster to to cut it with a just a regular utility knife
I feel if you got a project and you have some extra bass to waste and you can go
and pre-cut a bunch of like one inch or half inch returns and you know warm them up heat them up and let them shave
that'd be a way to go to allocate you know a four foot piece and then you
pre-cut all these corners and and I see where it can be beneficial but someone who is proficient at installing base and
is good with a knife it's not going to like the idea of having to stop and start
I'll tell you what I have no complaints about the decutter for Millwork space so that thing Game Changer I remember
buying the first time I see now it's like I'm buying that and I bought it right there and there's the crazy thing
is I I just bought another one because we have uh some more a bunch of Millwork bass coming up and I wanted to try and
speed things up but the cost difference from when we bought our first one to
right now I was like man we should have bought a couple [Laughter] emulation
baby you know the first time I ever did mill work base was out at uh folks I'm out in Marshall Michigan
and I didn't know what it was when they told me my base was right there you're
like what in the world this stuff utility knife and super glue and I tell
you what my my Fang danglers were not happy with me huh
it was not probably the prettiest of installs either so I I would imagine not
that would be a tough tough gig to cut that stuff with the you know a 45 on
with a utility knife but I did it all the time with the freaking
um you know chop saw and you had to take your bag off chop saw because it just get clogged up yeah the the
the uh not sawdust but the the debris from cutting that vinyl log up yeah so
yeah take the shot off and you had to clean up after yourself the entire area because it just shoot you everywhere
yeah that was that was a game changer um have you guys used
um or thought about using the dustless
um tile saws he was looking at him a couple years ago yeah I was looking when they first came
out and and um um our guy over at CCS was going to
allow us to take it and kind of try it um but
it didn't turn into anything right like I didn't want it I felt bad taking it to go do my shower at my house yeah you
know I wanted to use it in real life situation because then my house already had it set up and I didn't I didn't want
to mess up their the the one that they had in there showroom
uh but he was more than willing to let us use it and I really really wanted to and so it's I'm getting I get mixed
reviews from some tile guys some tile guys love it some tile guys in the water
I I think it's great uh from a technology standpoint I think it's awesome because I've cut on uh you know
a different shows again another reason to go to shows is you can try out some cool new stuff but
um you know they held the dust down really
well they made a good cut but they are heavier than hell and they're that's both
can be a pro and a con not that it's heavy but the fact that it's heavy is because it's got all the dust
containment and is water uh waterless the benefit
there that I would think and I'd love to talk to some people that have one but if
you're on a job site with no water that's a that's that's a big deal like if the Plumbing's not turned on you need
to cut tile uh so that that thing could come in real Handy I think winter that's what they
used in uh 2020 and purposes when they when they had the ceramic guys
um competing they use those tile saws yeah there you go somewhere where you
where you you have to walk two miles to go outside and make some Cuts yeah in the winter when you don't want to be
outside and in someone's garage or or somewhere where you don't have to worry about making too much of a mess or cold
water um yeah the mess is another part like having a you know set up a a station you
don't really have to do that much yeah so what other tool Technologies before
we move on to like technology from a computer's perspective dude laserly have come so so far just
and and I'm thinking more along the lines not only just the small ones that people are using nowadays to to set
backsplashes to make it easier for all that and you know one-man job or or like I'm talking like the large format
projects where you got patterns upon patterns and you're going in and around
uh you know grocery stores with all these patterns and different types of flooring the first time I used the laser it was
in the Raw it was pretty raw um just a like a surveying laser type
done what is available now is just night and day difference yeah they got it on
your low spots and your floors oh yeah yeah we have one that that will find the
low spots and you can mark and yeah it works good it's kind of a
you know it's a tedious like piece of equipment to use and set up but
it works well I mean it'll find the low spots and the high spots and you know
you have you can help your floor out a lot with one and then of course the layout lasers with tile guys uh
particularly with wall tile and such and matching up floors and wall joints I
mean yeah that's a that's a that's been a big changer I I feel almost blessed to
been in the time when I was working with uh when I was uh employee installer I if
there was no carpet or whatever my job got pushed I'd get sent with the tile guy you know and going with those guys I
remember them using old-fashioned just tubes with water in it water level and you using that to find all their
high spots in those spots on oh yeah so it was truly old school this guy uh what
was his name Jim that's what that tool we got is what's that
oh he's in a bad area isn't he yep yeah so I and now you got a laser to tell you
exactly what's level and what's not so that's that's uh that's pretty cool
um so moving on as we're down here uh
Kevin says that the cool Glide was his game changer oh yeah I you know as commercial guys I know we
all do Residential but not primarily I forget about that
you know I've seen dupp Milliken carpet tile to make an area rug out of a cool Glide
we have a we have a bank customer that you know they wanted the the area rug
over their wood floor in their entrance to match the carpet on both sides and we seamed up with that cool Glide and then
was able to take the whole thing and this was a 12 by 18 area rug uh we seamed it up and was able to roll
it into a big roll and take it out the job site nice and kudos to uh Mr Dwayne
Pruitt who installed that for me and uh Danny says that his least are
robot welder was a game changer doing 150-foot seams at the airport
it also comes in Big Time handy if you're doing a lot of sports flooring those damn joints are you know 70 75
foot long 100 foot long and to have a man on that machine
welding can be a it's a real time saver on those jobs we were we were looking at
a project with uh some static uh dissipative floor
at a battery plant and it was ropey tile and everything had to be welded
so we we went and bought the bought a robot and got all ready and then they were like oh never mind we're just going
to put epoxy instead oh my goodness we still got it and you still got it for
a robo welder that's cool yeah those things are awesome as well that's why I like to get
input from people because it's hard to remember everything that that's a big game changer like I said especially on
Sports flooring you can start welding the circles and all that while your welder is doing you set it up and let it
go for 100 foot and that's that I use it on a on a 10-foot
seam I use it on 20-foot seam
to yank it out for that but it works I mean we were doing a a dance floor one
time and the material was like so finicky with the heat if we were to were
to use any other Mouse it would have discolored it really yep
so yeah you know it adds that consistency of movement to your
you don't have to worry about yeah you don't have to worry about your arms doing this the cord getting in the way
and you move in and then discoloring something yeah
um don't forget about tool boxes guys like I know I I know that sounds good
but the the stackable toolboxes that Milwaukee had came out with and I know
there's copycats now but those are awesome dude look I know I took Daniel to it
I told him you know when I stepping me up and I had
Boston toolbox for my house for personal use I told Daniel I said these are the best tool boxes I've ever seen in my
entire life this is like four years ago maybe five years ago about no no no no no these are fine or two bikes they're
fine like two years later he's like I'm sorry dude they're awesome yeah well you
can't beat pulling your tools instead of carrying your tools and I tell you what those things
those are nice several other Crews have them
well uh let's move on to we're about halfway at least time frame wise
what about uh you know it's hard to not mention the cell phone when you start talking about technology and you start
talking about game changing computer in your pocket yeah like
I know this is a flooring based podcast but at the end of the day just receiving
you know nowadays we have other Technologies I'll plug go career we've had a a couple episodes where we did a
deep dive in that so if you don't if you're watching and you don't know what GoPro is there are several there's a
couple episodes out there or you can always reach out to us for more info but the
you know there's other technology to use the phone but the phone itself you know
whether it was email getting an email on your phone or getting uh
just receiving a phone call uh I know I I'm dating myself here but I remember
pulling over to pay phones to make phone calls so I I am old enough to remember
when payphones actually worked when you put a quarter in them right now you just hey we need updates yeah
too um I remember pay phones and bibles I
remember my friends getting in trouble because uh I had a pager that was uh I bought it very cheap and in order for
someone to page me they had to pay 25 cents off their landline they send me a send me a page it was good for me uh but
man uh that uh and you know just a date myself too is uh I told my son to
videotape something the other day and he said Dan why do you always tell me to
videotape it instead of just record it I was like what do you what do you mean dude I said videotape it is recording it
it does but I I don't know why you say video tape it's just it's got a valid
point okay you're not putting it on video hey you roll the window down
roll the window down yeah Oh I thought you're telling me I I did
exactly what you're talking about [Laughter] I mean if you think about it and we're
just talking about pay phones and pagers and you're sitting on a video calling your vehicle right I know on a cell phone and my kids
my son asked me if they had color TV in the 1900s yeah eventually
when you think about that we were born in the 1900s guys yeah well
we're not showing our age we all look very well you two look very young and I I'm coming up the rails with the the
white Chan but you know how do you how have you guys what's
always impressed me I'm just gonna say it with you guys is that you embrace the new technology as it comes along when
you you work through and find ways to adapt it or you know new technology can
can be a little clunky if you've ever you know used something brand new but you guys just work through whether it's
a tool uh you figuring out new ways to use tools or you know computerized
technology um meaning you guys have been big in to Microsoft teams and and using that for
management of your company and running things so what other types of things have you
guys done that hasn't actually improved your business um from a technology standpoint
uh I can start one off I'll tell you just real quick was on screen takeoffs because when I started doing flooring it
was manual and then I actually went to a course in Vegas to learn the digitizer
which was you taped your your paper drawings to a drafting table Yeah and
then you told it some certain points and then you had this wire that hooked up to your computer and you you do the takeoff
similar to you do uh on screen take off now but on an actual set of paper
drawings so you know nowadays it's color I want to learn that you're you could do
wall elevations and 3D stuff with it so that's that's mine that's probably one
of the biggest uh technologies that really improved our our our business model and business flow
and we adapted it early enough that we were able to kind of gain a competitive
Advantage for a while before everybody jumped on board yeah and early on when we started we we
didn't start with measure square we started with someone else and it was way harder to learn than measure square
in my opinion it was it was harder to learn because measure square is more
user friendly um I'll be honest about that but once you learn the other one and came
over to measure square it was like boom so easy like yeah shout out to measure square we use
them too and it's been a wonderful piece of technology for us so
what else have you guys uh you know I'll be honest for me it's just
the computer period like uh like that right there has come a long way
like I always a file cabinet uh do it by hand guy I was using the same the same
template for every invoice for everything and just deleting everything you know and then doing it again uh we
went from I remember having to fax everything over uh and then I used to tell people like why are we still faxing
there's emails can I just email this to you and people were telling me that that was never gonna happen uh Daniel was
actually the one who uh designed all my invoices when he was like 14 years old
that brings up the the bid boards and things like that works through you know
we use building connected I don't I don't know if you guys use that stuff but you know keeping track of your bids
and and you you send the bids right through building connected so there's
interfaces on top of the email technology and everything like that that has made life way easier because I do
remember uh faxes and faxing you know bids and then calling to make you get
into a delivery uh proof of delivery and then calling to make sure and
it was crazy but yeah that's that by itself I get it computers overall but
there's also these programs that run on top of all that that have made life so
much easier and the reason I wanted to do this type of a podcast is like
just take a minute if you're anywhere close to 40 years old and think back
to what it was like and the the difference is we get so used to what we
use and we're so used to the phone in our hands and I'm sitting recorded on a
laptop and having a video conference that's been you know shot out to the the
worldwide web and it's just it's amazing if you just stop and think about how
quickly technology has changed and one of the things that we want to remember
is that not only has technology changed but the the uh
speed at which it's changing now is so much faster like
it's like that so staying on top and staying out front of what's new and
what's happening is is like you can you can gain competitive advantage over your
competition if you're quick to adopt technology because there's a lot of companies a lot of people that are are a
little bit you know adverse to it or a little bit um that was me you know slow the technology
they it scares them that was me you know what made me realize that I've come a long way and
the other day my sister was in the office and I was typing and yeah
I do okay and she she looked over and was like
does holder type faster than me now and Daniel said yeah and I'm like
and for me that's just the one because I was I started like this and then I graduated to two and then
three but then now you're now I can just like read and type and
yeah you don't think about second nature so guys who haven't started with technology yet starts only took like 15
years but you know he's there now you listen listen when I was in school
they had a class called uh they call boarding keyboarding yeah yeah keyboarding they didn't call it
computers or computer lab they called it keyboarding and that was it yeah I don't know what it's called today like
computer science and is the degree in college but I'm sure it's got like like at my my son is in middle school and my
niece is in high school and they don't even teach typing or anything anymore
oh man they're dropping the ball on that yeah because my son is like typing like
this too and I'm like they don't teach you at school he's like no but voice recognition is gonna probably
do to the keyboard what I don't know uh the computer did to typewriters yeah
yeah you're right and then with all the AI technology coming out as well that's
changing so fast it's it's incredibly um have you guys messed with chat GPT oh
yeah yes 100 so I've used it to me I've used it a lot
um just trying to uh figure out how to train it and teach it different things
um it's pretty incredible how you can
talk to a computer and then that computer can mimic you
in pretty short order it can mimic your writing style it's pretty crazy uh but
if you're not like messing with that kind of stuff right now you're behind I mean it the chat gbt 5 is getting ready
to come out you know it's like how do you stop it I don't know I know there's a lot of concern out there with with the
technology you know there's there's some um pretty high-ranking people of the
planet like musk that are concerned with where this thing's going
and what it could do but at the end of the day uh I'd rather know about it if
it's a problem than not know about it and it'd be a problem at least I can understand it so I would encourage
everybody to you know embrace the new technology as it comes out and get to know it yeah and the thing but I learned
how to use it before Arnold passes away because once Arnold passes away then they're gonna go ballistic they know
that they're safe to do whatever they want that's a yeah
I the thing about chat GPT though is if you put crap in you get crap out right
you got to be real specific in everything that you're putting in there yeah yeah and and ask it questions
um just fool around with it I think it's you know it's free basically for if you
are just trying it um I know they have paid plans but and I'm not a chat GPT spokesman or anything
I've just used it a little bit to I've messed with it a lot a bit uh but I've
actually applied it um in some writing some content creation
stuff here and there uh it's pretty powerful um I started using it with with our job
descriptions and stuff
for looking for employment job descriptions type thing just uh yeah
well writing out the job descriptions that we're going to be handing out to people and stuff like that it's uh
putting the information in there seeing what it thinks and then it comes back with some pretty good stuff that's cool
yeah so there again my points taken you guys have already been messing with it
and and uh got some experience with it
how do you see utilizing that type of you've already mentioned one way how do
you see some other ways that you know some of this AI stuff could be used
um you know you know I see it being very helpful in in updating which I probably should update now is uh like terms and
conditions of contracts um to have the correct legal
um uh verbiage in there right so that way that way you're protecting yourself but
like Daniel said it's a matter of asking it asking the right questions in
the right format so that way you get the the right result um
but but I can see that that being a benefit and then it's going to benefit everybody like that like you're gonna be
able to copy and paste someone else's contract in there and then it's doing to interpret that for you and then
essentially you don't understand I mean essentially that's what you're doing I mean it gets its its information from
other from from who has put something on the Internet at some time and the
internet's history and so it's Gathering all that data gazillions
of bytes of data and it's right there at your fingertips and
so yeah I think I'm asking the right questions I found it pretty useful in
just quick um concise emails
if I if I am too emotionally charged on an email I've had to write an email for me
how to resp how would you respond you know this on to this and then tell it
what to respond to it'll shoot your response tune and you just guide it along and before you know it it's
written an email where my emotionally charged email would have been maybe come
off wrong um if you're dealing with a difficult situation like I happen to have been uh
on this particular instance and it's it's endless what you can use it for but
we've uh We've dabbled with it in that way oh yeah that's that's awesome I never I
never would have thought about that because I I want my emotion to be in there I I do have the tendency to take a
couple hours or write one when I'm upset and delete everything and start over and delete everything and start over here
until I'm until I'm level enough to uh not stay the wrong thing yeah
now you just ask ask Chad gbt yeah yep GPT that all you got to do is
change a couple words and then you're golden I had it right in the book media post for me too
instead of uh GTS now is a GPT right yeah but it's
being in it now because now it's part since Microsoft invested like three billion dollars into it uh it's
incorporated into Bing now so now you gotta move into being
Mazza well
we've went through different technology
um for different things right like adhesives tools
computers that I think that the key here is like if you don't try
if you don't Embrace technology it's one of our core values that my flooring company is we Embrace technology
like you can if you take that attitude I believe that you can get out ahead
um but also uh you know when it becomes technology and
inevitably becomes kind of a a Staple in your life and you're not
falling behind I mean I know plenty of guys you know starting go Carrera that have had problems
utilizing a cell phone just using a cell phone or still have a flip phone because
they don't want to go to the next piece in a smartphone so they still have a flip phone
um you know embrace it because it's not going anywhere the key here is to get to
know it embrace it and then figure out how you can utilize it to better
yourself or better your business that's that's my ploy to everybody is is really
embrace the ideas that are out there see see what it does
and then if it cannot if it if it won't help your business or your you personally fine but at least you've
tried and then you know I guarantee you eventually you find those things that will really change your business
um give you I mean we were putting out bids in days that would take weeks doing
manual takeoffs like that type of a difference in efficiency
um you know we were we were running on on screen take off when other people were
just learning it so Embrace technology that's my Ploy you know what now that you say that the
how easy it is right now to go and revise our projects when people are like oh yeah let me get it with this material
you know what that's out of my budget let's switch this room to this this room to that and it's just a matter of you know drag and drop and click couple
clicks and and you're done versus having it like already draw all over that drawing man you know now you gotta go
print something up I already highlighted everything pencils
yeah Rollin says that I'm out of uniform but he didn't say anything about your white shirt well I think it's so neutral
I think he's given me a pass hey hey you know what hey Robin one one
thing to go to drill that we uh we talked about like the the technology and the tools that
Bureau helped us out on one of those episodes of restaurant impossible to remove adhesive from a wood substrate
without that thing man holy smokes what did you use uh so we use the the Duro with uh the
razor scraper um yeah on it uh the attachment and it was some really really
sticky carpet brought them that came off of a wood substrate um and the double super thick
um and we were going over it with underlayment to put down some lvt but we still had to scrape that glue up
otherwise we were we were going to be lumpy right like I was gonna say why did you know I was gonna set you up really
well they showed it in the episode what episode was it rolling
episode number what because I'll go watch it we'll hope to get everybody go watch it
18 19. it was just aired probably a month and a half ago
um of this year yeah but yeah how impossible would restaurant and possible be without today's flooring without the
technologies that we're talking about like hand pulling I like doing a remodel
like that in 48 hours or whatever it is how tough would that be without modern
day demo machines and stuff like that and other technology that allows us to
do our job more efficiently right and super chop it augmented reality is making uh its
appearance now for for our industry as well not only just the construction in general but um the the metaverse that
that's the real thing uh you gotta gotta get up on some of that and do some research on that guys that's going to
start affecting how we do our job um from the takeoff standpoint and and
and you know submittals and the the whole metaverse thing was a they had at
surfaces at the Women's Conference and when they went through it you know there's a lot of people that
you know ourselves included because we haven't looked into it right but it's like we don't understand so you're going
to get on here and you're going to sell flooring for someone's fake house and
they're like yeah and everyone's just like I don't understand what's going on and they're like think about it what are your kids
doing they're building stuff in Roblox they're doing this they're doing that and they're spending real money on fake
money on V bucks for fortnite right our kids are getting the v-bucks in fortnite and it's like that's what I tell my son
I said I'm not gonna spend keep on spending real money on fake money but that's what that's the nature of the
game right now well they I I hear that some of the engineering they're coding
some of the the stuff to you know even push engineering and and stuff like that
a little further uh and I could imagine your model home
being in the metaverse where you can go physically walk through it before it's ever built to the make any upfront
changes before your actual homes built you know I don't see a future where humans who are social animals uh
completely abandoned reality and go into the metaverse but I could see it as a
very useful tool for stuff like that you design and build a house in the metaverse for next to nothing have the
customer walk through it make sure that there's no changes or even a full building you know how many times have
you went into someone's facility and they're like man everything's awesome but I wish I'd have put another you know
a set of bathrooms over here or I wish I had a extra we only have one mop sink on
the first floor and I don't know why we did it that way it's just little things like that that could be flushed out
and that could be where you know they they do meetings and stuff on here now so it's like you can get an entire team
walking the building together all at the same time you can have you know the EVS team like oh like you said we need a
slop sink right here because the other one is like way over there yeah yep
yeah it's that kind of thing I mean video technology like we're on now um
I mean to get eyes on the job site and stuff that's one of the newest features
coming out on go Carrera as a piece of video technology that allows you to mark up on the screen uh from your office to
like specifically tell you know your field staff or maybe it's superintendent
you're trying to explain something to I can literally start a call with
somebody in the field and I Mark a circle on my screen it shows up on their screen so they know exactly what I'm
trying to tell them and vice versa I mean stuff like that it's like
you can be on the job site without being on the job site yeah 100 I mean today I went uh right
before I got them that's why I'm in the truck as uh we had something pop up I had to go measure it and I'm documenting everything on my
phone in in a program and walking through and videotaping it and putting commentary to it so that way I don't
have to explain it again later on yeah um you know like like doesn't say hey watch the video so it's a one minute
video watch it or we have that 30 second videos that's a great idea I don't know
why I've never thought of doing that I don't like say I don't like that that's a great idea to do that
I gotta say this integrated into some of the measure programs that we use while we're out in
the field or or and I know that some of that is available as long as you're uploading it to some of uh like that uh
construct connect or building connect or whatever like some of that's available but you have to upload everything right
yeah um live and in person going ahead and doing that right there in the program itself
would be work that's weight in gold um when you're doing the actual measure that you don't have to then everybody
has it who has access to it instead of you having to upload it and trying to reform another cool point that I think
that brings out is the fact that Technology's there but how you use it
and the ways you use it you if you get creative just like that like a video of
the job I take video but to then voice you know to actually record what you're
talking about and then use that as a as a tool to make sure that when your Crews
go back to to do the work that they have some guidance that kind of thing is that
how you use it that seems genius to me and that's just technology in a different way
and the idea came about a long time ago when we were working at places where you
got to go in the back door with this key in the back you have to explain to someone how to get around to the back door right so I just started recording
it and then you open the door now we gotta walk through the kitchen into the dining area by the reception desk and
then here's the the keypad to punch the code in this is the code and then I'll hold the camera back and I put my finger
in it you know and I'll actually go through the mode like I try to do stuff like try to make it as easy as possible
that's how good I'll tell you what Google Earth sure helped a lot with telling Cruz what door to go to on a
building and that kind of thing I mean it's all cool stuff you just gotta embrace it yeah
well guys we're already at the end of the Huddle that went fast and that
didn't go very fast we could talk probably uh you know another half hour on technology but it's it's a broad
topic I I think that like I said earlier you know and I I know you guys agree
it's like embrace it try it out if you don't like it you don't have to use it but at least you know about it right and
um from somebody who's came from old school and a little stubborn and you guys out there young guys older guys
women whoever um it doesn't matter if you understand it
or not and just understand that it is there to make life easier understand that it will make your job a
lot easier you don't have to understand it or how to do it just understand that if you're not using it you're losing
something yeah it certainly has the ability to find the way that it that it
fits for your your business model or your personal life or what have you I
know a lot of guys that have their goals written down on a Gold Tracker that's you know an application on a phone so I
mean just find the stuff that works best for you uh you know and and give it a
shot you're gonna find some stuff that's really cool I mean just password savers I mean even that you know if you
what's that without that yeah I would be lost DJ yeah exactly no kidding all right
gentlemen well it's been a pleasure to chat with you again today and uh as
always we will always catch you next week again as always I fully appreciate you guys
always being on here and bringing up these thoughts and ideas it's it's awesome so appreciate you and we will
talk soon sounds good thanks for joining everyone all right see you guys later bye
The Huddle - Episode 46 - Turning Stress into Motivation
This week the guys have special guest Eduardo Martinez on the webinar to talk about stressors and how to use them to launch your business forward, even when they don’t seem positive at the time.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
Pros welcome to the huddle
we come at you every week every Tuesday 3 P.M Central to discuss maintaining
forward progress in your flooring career this week with me as always Mr Daniel
and Jose Gonzalez out of Grand Rapids Michigan what's up what's up guys
USA so we got uh another
individual going to be joining us and uh we'll see we'll see when he chimes in
here but this week's um puddle is really about the stress
level that many installers uh have to go through whether it's you
know stress on finances stress on Project completion is a big one like
getting work getting your work done um how you deal with that stress how you
deal with you know I think it's you know how do you deal with complicated people on job sites
like other trades and and your general contractor your Builder if you're
working in homes how do you deal with the homeowner and the stress level of that so any of these are gonna you know put
you in the state of possibly reacting in a manner that you
do not want to react and so I think it's cool to kind of discuss
this what what do you guys do when you're when you're kind of fighting
against you know sorry I'm getting some feedback yeah I
know it's my fault oh no problem I'm gonna share I'm sharing it on my phone because it's easier than doing it on the
computer and then sometimes the audio just likes to play for no reason oh is that what that was
yeah I'm trying to listen to both conversations I was confused so you know when you're dealing with
these things one of the things that I would like to ask you guys is
what's your Stress Management mechanism I know that sounds fancy but I mean like
what do you do when when you have a a builder or a uh a general contractor or
a homeowner that has maybe unrealistic expectations or maybe they you've made a
promise it didn't quite come through you know how this stuff works yeah yeah you think you're going to get done with the
cafeteria by two o'clock on Tuesday and you're not done until Thursday you know
different things get in the way but you know that stress can be
um almost debilitating sometimes so what do you guys do about you know dealing with these stressors and kind of you
know maybe moving forward because you guys been successful you've obviously done that
and manages in in a manner that keeps you up what's up Eduardo
Eduardo sorry I interrupted your thought keep going okay so the question and I'll I'll
restate it so that you can chime in here too we have many stressors as
installation professionals out in the field and what do you do when what's
your what's your way of dealing with really complicated people that like whether it's project schedule or
you know something else many times you're you can be just a um uh sounding
board or or maybe not even that like a a a one of them punch dummies uh for a
superintendent on a job site or something so you know a lot of this is a day by day thing how do you deal with it
and I'll go ahead and start with that because uh that I'm gonna be I'm gonna be very political
about it I'll just let everybody know that I'm gonna you know everyone's gonna approach this differently right but um
you know sometimes you got to be the one under the stress sometimes you got to be the mediator and
um I've been on both sides probably more often than than not on both sides and I think everybody has but
I guess it all depends on the situation and I think uh what's what's been nice
for us and I'm pulling over here guys so that way I can concentrate on this and not worry about the traffic but
um good idea understanding understanding your audience I guess so to speak right like
uh in is one way that I've always approached it I've always tried to
but myself in someone else's shoes and try to understand exactly what they're going through so that way I know how to
react um because when I was younger I was very reactive to the situation instead of uh
being uh proactive I was very reactive I waited till something went wrong and then I just reacted whether it was
accordingly or not it all depends on what side of the coin you're around but uh
that comes with people skills the longer you're in it the more you're doing it the more situations you become familiar
with and you understand how to I don't want to say weave your way in and out of it but you start understanding people
more and start understanding situations um and you start putting yourself in a position you can read people more but
the stress part of it when it gets put on you you're gonna be reactive or you're going
to take a breath and say okay one step at a time one one word at
a time one scenario at a time and and I've tried to do that for a very long time doesn't always work nope not at all
because they have something going on at home I have something going on at home uh or at
work or at another job site and it's hard to to create divide uh through some of
that but I this is a hard conversation to have because there is no right wrong answer
right there is no uh no exact path for anyone to say this yeah I
mean that's kind of the nature of having humans interacting with humans there's
not a silver bullet to each one what's your what's your take uh Eduardo
and then we'll jump over to Daniel okay so those who personally know me
um I'm kind of stoic so like a lot of time it looks like I'm in a good mood no matter what's going on uh I have that
Hakuna Matata mentality the uh it is what it is I can correct my mistakes but
I can't correct an action so a lot of times just communication like Jose said and it takes practice takes a lot of
practice because I thought I had a problem but it just turns out I had no social skills but I've been working on
it I've been tying adults and uh that's as I've been improving a
lot on it but people love that when you know they don't just like oh thank God people like it when you admit that you
made a mistake and you're like okay I'm willing to correct this you know and it's better that we take action now
instead of you know avoiding it people hate it when you avoid it and all of a sudden it pops up and it costs them a million dollars so yeah you know
communication and practice and accountability you made a great point there too like if you hold
yourself accountable it makes it easier when it when when you're the one bringing out the stress right and you're
at the cause of it instead of stressing yourself out and saying oh I gotta hurry up and fix this I gotta hide this or I can't say this
holding yourself accountable and bringing it up to the front of the class so to speak uh will help uh bring
Solutions a lot quicker absolutely yeah admitting all a lot of times uh is
a really good way of disarming your the other person like
how much do you want to beat me up right you got to go past just like the other
like if you're dealing with a difficult uh Foreman on a job site
when you admit you're you made a mistake now where do we go from here it like
this disarms the the conversation now they have to want to be a real prick to
just keep on harping on the problem and a lot of times the best response is like I get it man I have I've admitted
I was supposed to be here Saturday whatever the problem right but I was supposed to be here Saturday things came
up I let you know about it but at the end of the day we are where we're at
what what do I need to do to to move this you know move this situation forward so that's a great great deal how
about you Daniel what's your input here communication with everything um like especially first starting out
you don't like to talk to people at least I didn't still kind of don't like to talk to people it comes with uh you
don't like talk to people and you're on a podcast every week whatever I know right dude dude this is a real story
let's listen to what he has to say so you just don't like talking to people and you just like try and tiptoe around
things and then you know people get angry and it's just sometimes you're the
person that's getting angry and it's just communicating this is the the way I feel this is what has to be done and and
stuff like that it's a majority of the time the stresses that I'm thinking about on the job sites were you know
scheduling and us getting in there and people being in the way and all this
stuff right and the only way that they can know about you know the things that are going on is for us to be like hey
you guys want us to do it like this that's going to take twice as long this is why this is why I have to do it this
way and you know before I didn't approach it like that I was just like nope I'm not doing it your way this is
the way I'm gonna do it don't care and you know better to ask for forgiveness than permission and then you get to a
point especially working with the same people over and over again it's like look man like if I don't get this area
at the same time it's not going to get done when you want it done so just communication all around
so you know I heard communication
you know you're dealing with people so admitting mistakes I also there's an
undertone of first principles here so if you can just get it back to like okay
here's why I need to do it because they always want to get their job done and so you're
you're taking it back to like we can mull this over or fight about this but what are we going to do from here to
move it forward or in your in your example there Daniel when
you're you're communicating with them and they may not like that that
result the end of the day look I'm just trying to get your job done in the most
efficient manner and and make your client happy to make you happy with me
at the end of the day that's what I'm trying to do here so because a lot of dealing with the the
attitudes and and and complicated people is about getting them always remember
this is what I always think of is like what do I want out of this situation
like that's not a selfish thing what do I want out of this I want to get the job
done or I want to get through this weekend whatever the the goal is remember your goal and always be aiming
at that and then manage your state manager state is I talked about this in a previous podcast but one of my mentors
Ed mylett talks about this a lot when you're in a certain State uh mental
state is what he's talking about you're you're angry or you're upset about
something or you've had a bad day and you're not necessarily angry but you're depressed or whatever we all have these
human emotions managing those States when you're in a complicated situation
the best way to do that is remember the goal of that conversation if you're
getting if you're dealing with a uh you're behind they're pressing you to work the weekend but you don't want to
work the weekend remember your goal if it's to get the job done and you
still think you can get it done without the weekend then you you you can focus on the right
um piece of communication between you two if that makes any sense so you're not
going down rabbit holes and getting getting this he said she said or or pointing fingers thing you're you're
just working on Solutions that's kind of the goal is when your Solutions yeah
when you're thinking of your your your goals you're just thinking of how do I
provide solutions to get through this situation that's that's what I think of
a lot um and of course you know your guys's comments are great I mean communication
is key in that before it happens is can help out too
right like just understanding the process and understanding like what Daniel said communication if you hit the
beginning of the project beginning of anything you're communicating up front what you're doing is you're leaving alleviating the potential stress that
could happen now some of it you have to adjust to on the Fly you got to adjust expectations
yes some of that you you you're never going to be 100 stress-free out of anything right like it could be
something super simple but it causes stress on somebody um but but
being at the Forefront being very honest and and saying this is the scenario this
is where I'm at these are my steps through this uh process uh and if
something happens between one of those steps it can throw me off and throw your schedule off and and and that does
great communication up front uh it relieves a lot of stress on the back end
yeah what's your what's your thoughts there Eduardo um I I I went to uh win-win I always
think about that like that was the fundamentals that I'm thinking about when it comes to any kind of project like you're like yeah I'm gonna take the
weekend off and then the person's like well I'm gonna lose my job my Monday if it's not done so like that's not a win-win but you know maybe he can take
you out to eat and you know buy you some tools or something try and bribe you up but a lot of my my perspective on it is
it's just stress is good but it's it's just such a big causer of like health issues like there's like 70 80 percent
of health issues are caused by stress so you know stress is worrying about what you cannot control at that moment or
what you cannot change at that moment so it's very important that you do manage it somehow because you don't want to end up getting sick people who are stressed
out a lot get sick a lot you know they get heart disease especially us men we end up getting heart disease and strokes
and so I you know I'm not gonna live forever but I'm gonna try yeah carry
some Tylenol for the headaches Mario Fernandez says uh there's never a
problem only a challenge well you know I think if we're managing
it if we're managing expectations correctly like has kind of been a theme
here and then like Eduardo said you know the
stress is there's a reason it's called Stress Management
it's because it's always present there's some level of it you know I adopted three kids not too long ago
that's plenty of stress to manage you know what I mean the the the the point here is that you
do have to manage it and sometimes that's about expectation the other part is like you said
coming coming across with solutions to the problem and I love the win-win
because like you said the store wants you to maybe the dealer you're working with or the contractor
the flooring company you're working with once you need you to work the weekend you don't want to
that's not a win-win how do you create a win-win well multiple times I've you
know given gift cards or uh enticed a subcontractor to work through the
weekend to get something done um and then that seems to alleviate a
little bit of stress if the if the reward's high enough a lot of sometimes the stress can go away so uh for
flooring companies out there you know there's a lot of one thing I don't believe in is the
office never work in a weekend and then always requiring the field to work the
weekends like that's not how we operate I can tell you that like we have guys you can go to my office any given
weekend and catch two or three cars out there managers work in the job with the
crew not on the job site but getting the materials or making sure that they're taken care of or being there for when
they have questions there's just you can't have that separation I believe
installers and office are equal from we're all human it's not like someone's
above so I've never you guys built the same way as well yeah I have a hard time going home um after
um like my day is done when we have Crews working nights and sometimes I end up staying in the office until 11 12
o'clock because I just I feel like I need to be at work too because we have guys out there right and and the guys
the guy your guys will appreciate the fact that you are not just a do it you know one of one of the things I don't
think they know that though I don't think they know that that's what I do so they call me and I'm still at the office I don't think they know that I just I do
that for me but they know that over time they know
if you're consistent with it they definitely know I mean there there's there's only so
many times they can show up to the office to grab some material that they forgot to pick up and you're you happen
to be there that you know you know you're right yeah
when you're managing stress you're managing your state that management like Ed teaches to have
a a trigger to pull you out of that state and back into a positive State because you always want to remember what
am I trying to get out of this conversation you know what I mean if you're in a complicated conversation
with somebody what do you what do you need out of it and what do they want out of it and if you can
um steer the conversation to where both people get what they want
maybe it's the gc's getting their job done and you don't you compromise say
look well I've got an installer it's going to work the weekend uh or Saturday but they won't work
Sunday but we'll get to this point and then by Tuesday we'll be done with that area you know that's communication you
guys have talked about it the entire time but not coming off as a put a um like
you're trying to push them off or be a jerk you're trying to help them through the situation and be a problem
solver that always comes off better as well yeah I I agree with that 100 and I think
that that's the difference between the young Jose and older Jose well well
it's treating everything like a partnership right because you like we talked about before you go in here and
your partner is you're trying to you're both your guys's goal is the same it's to get the project done and in order to
do that you got to talk through it and make sure that things are set up in a sequence especially since they don't
know your sequence you have to communicate that to them so that way they can understand all right I didn't
think about it like that let's kind of change gears and it's been like that on you know a couple of these projects
lately where the the GC will give me a call and be like hey I got these guys coming in here and I'm like yeah but
we're supposed to be there that day and they're like well can't you just do this one area and it's like nah man I need this this whole
thing we're self-leveling I can't just do you know small areas at a time I need
everything and then they're like all right let me call them back let me we'll figure this out and it's
it's you know the GC communicating to me and then me communicating back to them that their plan wasn't going to work out
but us coming together and and putting something else together that ends up working out great especially
like when we're working nights and it's like I will wear I would work 60 hours
in four days rather than have the guys work Friday and they're all about that that way they
also don't have to be there on that Friday yeah I want to add to what what Daniel
said too because you just made me realize something um um it's that communication you know they call
and say hey I'm going to have these guys here too and you're like no because this is the process and some of it might just be that they're just not educated they
don't understand the process so I do explain it to them they hold that in and they they lock that in and they start
understanding more of what we have to do and what we have to uh go through and
that helps build a better relationship for the future which in turn causes less stress and
if you were willing to work with them uh they'll know that as long as you don't let them abuse it I think that that
they'll always approach it and then the next time they call they're gonna say instead of say hey I have these people
coming over and they call and say hey here's the scenario what can we do how
can we work together to make this work because these people also need to get in there but they're also on a time crunch
and availability yeah so it is it's like proper planning and communication to
prevent future stress has been everybody here has talked about that yeah but
that's the bottom line like planning properly for your job good communication
about your processes and what you need prevents future stress and then when you
do get into stressful situations a lot I still want to go back to what Eduardo said remember how can you make it a
win-win and that's similar to like keeping goals in your head so
you're wearing the best shirt on the podcast nobody's going to interrupt you you start talking we'll shut up okay now
I I mean I was I wanted to bring up uh when you guys started talking about you know having your team out on the field and you in the office uh it's either
mental capital or physical capital that you're getting paid to expand because this is my first time working in an office and I am I don't know at the end
of the day my brain's fried so when I ride my home my bike home it's like you know rap music and podcasts but
um it's just it is capital like thinking and creating ideas and working with other people is exhausting you know
um so that's pretty important and then the other thing is like you got to steer the conversation when it comes to
getting what you want like Paul said if you're asking the right questions and you know and understanding that and this
is something I just learned voice inflection was a big reason why me and my wife were miscommunicating because I
thought she had a tone but it's just I didn't understand how voice inflection works and now I'm like listening to her
she's a lot nicer that's the same sentences just said in a
different way you know what's funny you talk about voice infliction and that's one thing um that I have that works for me and
against me is everyone says that I'm very soft-spoken right like people who have just me oh you're very soft-spoken
you're very polite but my family they say I'm just an a-hole like my delivery
is dry but I'm just an a-hole and I'm like man like everybody says what am I soft spoken or am I now like you know
so sorry any Monica so I said it like the elementary way there the PG way
um so so the the truth if there is a truth in that is
probably somewhere in between there yeah it is it is and and I guess my facial expressions
give it away and and that's what people who don't know me don't understand my facial expressions but my family 100
they do they have this the eyebrows I have very very expressive with the eyebrowser
Eduardo can you build a little bit of a scenario of a time when you've
really been stressed out and what was the what was the source of that stress
like oh I like it and I think I know it's a good question no I was going to tell Daniel he's
looking healthy so he doesn't look stressed but uh I mean I have it's a long story
but pretty much last year I was pushing something that I didn't believe in anymore I guess it was just my ego for
doing floors for so long but I wasn't happy about it or passionate about it so I started learning because I got
mentorship mentorship is important uh when you realize like oh crap I'm doing this wrong I should probably ask for
help and so the last seven eight or eight months we've been pregnant uh we're having a kid uh I think I closed
on my business I don't know but I sold everything I have a bicycle I have two bicycles and I am happier than ever I'm
cycling work every day but it's that stress that like gets me up and gets me to work and puts
in the effort because it's scary the the reason I bring this up is I'm not sure who did the exact experiment
but they had a mouse in a little tunnel and they would waft the smell of a cat
behind it they had a little spring attached that would measure the weight of the pressure pushing forward well
when they tried that the mouse pushed but then they added some cheese on the other end so Not only was the mouse
running from something it was pushing towards something so it's that's that's kind of a you know over some patient of
stress and like you gotta run faster than that cat towards something that you
want um and that's that's how I'm using stress like I'm running and I'm going in a certain direction and and uh you know
I can pull twice as hard as anybody and you know I added discipline to that and it's been working pretty well
so the want for the the the final outcome has got to outweigh the the
dangers or the stress so to speak of uh that the outcome could potentially bring
towards you yeah so all right so that's the journey man that's the journey right you gotta love the journey
everyone's running from something you know you know maybe I cut off an old lady in traffic and I was like man I
feel bad about that in my life but you know it's it's this that that multiplication that
that leveraging of those stressors the stress is good but also wanting something on top of that so you can't
just be stressed out hiding at home you got to be outside on the Run doing something yeah says he thinks you're
referring to Speedy Gonzalez well it's interesting because that's a
common kind of um I run uh quite a bit and Runners like the
community which I'm not super involved with but they say you know in your in
the back of your mind you're either running towards something or running away from something and it's Unique that
you're running that you're that both are occurring seems to me that when both are occurring
meaning just like your mouse uh example you're running away from something and
running towards something that that could be pretty powerful if you get into stressful situations and
you understand what you're running from and running towards it's like you can move twice as fast you
even said that so is that kind of the idea of the the so like if you have fear
to add the the positive to the thought process in your when
you're managing your state you think like what am I moving towards which is
kind of similar to the goal thing like remember your goals but you also have this thing you're running from so do
when you are kind of stress fleeing stress are you also thinking that like I
need something positive in my Horizon to be running towards or is that
even uh cognizant yeah you are Eduardo okay uh so I wanted to bring that up
it's like when you have nothing to lose that is the best time to just go for it
because you've got nothing like what are they going to take from you like you got nothing so just that is when rich men
are made when they have nothing to lose and Richmond stay Rich by preserving what they made when they when they made
it but you know that's how I feel like like you have to lower your your standard of living cert and and detach
yourself from from these things that we've been we've been raised through America not to be political but through
the American education system to be you know manufacturing people standing in a line Buy credit get in debt get married
Buy College and so you know avoiding that this is seen you know as a stigma
but all these people I know right here are incredibly intelligent and driven and disciplined so you know I think it's
a little bit of everything now too yeah I'm gonna powder this mouse
in this cat thing because the way you said it and what Paul just added to it just made me like like it
just I just blew my own mind in the thought processes the the fear of the cat is that pushing you harder than the
want or need of the cheese like yeah like I guess you could go pretty deep on
this they say in Psychology the fear response will always you always do more
out of fear than you will out of Desire uh Everybody Wants To Be A Millionaire everybody wants like to have nice things
and do these things and you know most people I should say
um but if they got a bison Chase and then they'll they'll get up off their ass and
go do something I mean like you know it's it's always your belief system and that can go super deep but what I
what I think's kind of um really interesting to this is and Daniel
I'd love to like hear your your idea behind this but if
if Eduardo just you know man talking about managing stress from a lifestyle
level he's talking about like lower your stress level over all by not obsessing
over things simplifying your life and living within your means and then you
don't have to you know skip out on dinner one night because you got a car payment or you
know you can't buy your wife or girlfriend something nice because you got you got the mortgage or the rent or
the whatever what's your guys's thought on like overall lifestyle management
living beneath your means whatever that is I mean it's it that's an
individualized comment but yeah what do you think of that approach it is but it
isn't at the same time because we've touched on this in in previous podcasts too where we say you know we pay
ourselves a salary and the the business income is the business
income and our income is is our income and that's how we we kind of treat it and that's because without separating
the two we know far too many people that live above their means because as soon as
that money hits that bank account it's my money and you know got all this money
to go to the casino this weekend but then up next weekend I can't pay my guys sorry guys
so it's that that's you know like he said you don't want to get too
political but it's kind of uh America in a nutshell it's you you gotta have that motivation
to wanna actually do something so you put it in terms of
um like working out a lot of people say well I can't work
out because this is wrong or this is wrong but you know I'm I've been there I
just fell off a ladder earlier and hurt my knee so there goes uh my gym but I
could still go to the gym and work on my upper body right it's it's you gotta look at things in a
different perspective it's not I can't now it's I can't do this it's well now I just gotta to switch my my thinking on
things and then figure out something else that I can do yeah do you guys think that
um stress is compounding
oh yeah absolutely lifestyle stress
and then you get into a situation on a project or out you know a work stress
pretty reasonable to say that if you've managed the other stressors in your life
Financial stress is one of the the greatest um and and hardest on people if you've
managed that correctly are you do you believe you're able to um deal with situational stress better
that's I think that's Hit or Miss I think that's going to be individualized right like some people just don't care about
financial stress because they don't care they just like Let It Go and it doesn't matter though
some of those guys I guess any they just I know some of those people and I'll
tell you that you know being uh on the receding side of them not caring about
their commitments it's not fun because trusts on me but um there's other ways
of dealing with that but as far as the compounding you know like
the older you get I think the easier it is to to handle and to separate to find
separation um you know when I was younger the the the stresses of at home and personal
life were definitely brought to work with me and then you would kind of hold that and there would be triggers all day
that would trigger that feeling and if that that stress would be brought to the surface
um and you might be a little more touchy than normal with with other things with with people in a little more short
um but as you get older you you you're able to I don't want to say suppress it but you're able to separate it right like you worry about it but you know
like like me and me and you work together uh tomorrow all and I'm stressed about something at home
um and you know I go I choose not to talk about it I now I'm able to separate that and we'll have a good day at work
still right but then on my downtime on my brakes I'm going to be thinking about what I have to deal with later so that
way I'm mentally preparing myself for for what's to come at home or
you know it was with life in general and um
against stream on me if I'm not willing to share that with close friends and try to find some kind of Outlet I mean I
know that's hard for some still hard for me but younger uh me would definitely hold on
to that and I would snap on people and be upset and it would definitely compound and then someone like Daniel
would be like hey dude like what's up dude like what's what's wrong I was gonna say something that I
should have said what's wrong with you today like hey you're just like extra today like what's wrong and that's
usually all it takes for someone to say this is what's going on and then you might have a solution or they might be
able to pull you out of out of that dark hole that you're in right now and bring you back and then you just go ah
so you feel a little bit better it sounds like it it does compound to
some extent in my life I I would say yes if I'm as good as I feel like I've
gotten at State Management um they're I mean
I when I was young with my ego and I had
an explosive anger like explosive it was unmanageable
I'm really embarrassed about it as an older um older man now I think two things
happen as you get older you get a little more wiser and you also your ego starts to die a little bit you know your ego
starts to take a second seat to your Ambitions and your your love for other people that gets a little probably
deeper than this conversation but truth is a great way to put it at the end of the day
um ego starts to take about a back seat to other things that become more important and um yeah
I think the older we get the easier it is to empathize with other people so it makes it a lot easier to
to get the attitude out of the way because it's not like you know it's all me this is what I need
all the time it's uh everyone has things going on in their
life and then you have to realize that you're not the only one that's going through some stuff so it's like
you know what what's going on with you at the same time everyone needs someone to talk to well yeah giving a about
other people will help you as well like pouring in other people a little bit
helping other people get through some tough stuff all of a sudden you're like I ain't got it that bad
it could be that guy and you know we touched on Simon sinek uh
a while a while back you know a few episodes and he says something that
really resonates too it's a you go to the library and they have all these
self-help books but they don't have a section that that's help other people
good point for the most part anyway there's probably a few scattered through there
but yeah what do you think Eduardo so I'm gonna start backwards because uh
you just mentioned the self-help and and it's true like uh you're not gonna change somebody who doesn't want to
change when it comes to stress uh to me I see it as pain the only way to grow is through pain and so now it
makes sense like you know the concept of like I can't give these people everything they need because it's not
going to help them grow up as people and that's part of growing up like now that you all have kids I think you all have
kids like you understand what it's like to love somebody else unconditionally
because like man it feels good when my little girl's like whoa shoot you're back home I was like yeah like that's a
good feeling so you know growing up is learning to love others more than yourself
and you know that's part of the process yeah I know that it may seem like
you know stress the topic is is uh this may not apply no this is
exactly what like manages your overall stress level that
leads to the health complications you talked about earlier
it's hard to manage situational stress I guess was my kind of driving Point here
when everything else in your life is chaotic and stressful so work on the things you have control
over so that when situational stress comes in that you a lot of times don't
have control over whether it's car accident or you know you get you get something happens that's
not really great but you got to deal with it um you're more
equipped to deal with it if if you're the rest of your life is not just some stressful mess
and that's Financial relationships business the whole works
so besides learning how to deal with it internally what does everybody do outside of internalizing and expressing
emotions and and asking for help or trying to help others like uh you know
like I used to play ball quite a bit right that was my stress reliever right and then I mean it brought stress too
but but that was my outlet right that was my hobby like what hobbies uh for me
the Hobbies outside of work and outside of your home life um help relieve some of that um uh you
know there was an old comedian who says uh I don't remember who it was but this is a joke from a very long time ago like
oh when I'm stressed out I did I bought a dog so that when I'm stressed out just come home and kick my dog and that joke
is stuck with me for a lot of years and I don't think anybody talks like that anymore but um
like working on the yard like um Sports uh watching my kids play sports that's a
great stress reliever but I get stressed while I'm doing it because I know that the potential you get stressful you get
anxious anxious yes there you go but anxiety is a form of stress as well but stress on
you um but those are well you got your game you got your
positive stressors and your negative stressors right that's what we were talking about earlier whether you're anxious to get to the cheese or fearful
to get away from the cat it's it you you have positive and negative I mean so it
can be a positive thing that is like a stressful thing like good
things can can be stressful doesn't mean that they're all negative and bad it's
just you know overall um the ones that bother us the most are
obviously the the negative sourced stressors
Jocelyn is actually listening and she said
trying to set herself up for everything with nutrition and
putting time in for hobbies sometimes you'll find you can help other people when doing those things and makes you
know you know yourself feel good so by actually relieving your own stress
you can relieve other people's stress as well and I think you would like with my wife I can see that because she goes to
fit body boot camp at 5am and she's been going for years and they got like
this whole thing going and there's people that come up to us you know we'll be we'll go out to dinner somewhere and
they'll be like oh that's you know and Tanya I know you from Fit Body and she's like I've never met that person before
in my life but they'll tell her like your motivation like just seeing you in there every day and her post it's like
she's motivating other people without even knowing it and that's just what she uses to relieve her stress that's
interesting well that's a question you posed Jose so
what what what what what do you do outside uh you know working out I I
personally fasting helps me a lot uh something about me all you know not
eating and my my brain dealing with that keeps it keeps my stress level down a
little bit um and you know I go I enjoy running
um so a lot of times I'm able to deal with that additional stress through physical stress
yeah now I think uh if I chime in real quick uh I think I'm not sure if Draco willing
says it but you know he says slow is smooth and smooth as fast yes you have to slow down and think about it and the
the kind of what I wanted to head toward was the conscientiousness of knowing like everybody here could be anxious
like our hearts beating we don't know I can't feel that but you know you can ask that and the the last thing I want to
talk about is community you need to find your people like there's a group for everything you can think of out there
and when you hang out with them you feel like wow the room is shiny these people get me you know so finding community on
top of whether you find it at the gym or where you defined it at you know in a meeting Hall like you just got to find a
community to hang out with yeah finding Community is a great Point as well as what
you said earlier I mean I have mentors I have some people that I can rely on to
just kind of unload on um so I I think that you know sometimes
that's your wife make sure you know how to do that one right gentlemen uh but
you know having somebody that has your back and really is a cheerleader of you
that's what I've found in like this Journey I've been on for 15 years
of personal development and and improving myself is you know getting around people that
are your cheerleader and are not are not in the background saying oh he's you
know just wants this or you know talking bad or something that truly celebrates
your wins and that a lot of time is a community that you join and you know
if you're in flooring works it's one of the best communities you can be a part of right here
so it is but it is and you you wouldn't know that if you if you don't
start going somewhere and putting yourself in a position to be recognized and not recognition for for what you
feel is a success or what others view as success just recognize as an individual period just
a name a shake someone's hand meet someone new you never know it might be
someone that lives in Kansas that you just you get along with really well and every time you talk it's like you never miss a beat right yeah yeah I think it's
you know a lot of times we we don't think we have much to give as individuals
and we you do you have more than you know sharing your story or talking to somebody just saying some kind stuff
to I don't care if it's a stranger or your wife and make someone else's day and you know
we talk about going to conventions and going to different um you know flooring shows or or shows
in general that's kind of part of it like
getting putting yourself out there a little bit and you do have a lot more to
give than you'll do then you probably give yourself credit for I'm still guilty of that sometimes like
you you have some gifts that other people can can really benefit from if
you'll put yourself out there a little bit um I think that's what you've kind of alluding to there Jose and you know I
got Eduardo at a show I've met you guys at shows I mean like going to and being
part of the installation community that we're all passionate about and also want to improve we we know the faults we've
talked about them on we're in episode what 46 is that right 42 46 46 weeks
straight I've had this podcast right right straight straight
some emergencies and some like one up One technical difficulty week uh but
yeah for the most part yeah um but yeah just being part of the
community that that will celebrate your wins uh and staying away from the toxic
stuff that you you see the toxic you see the good and bad on social media
specifically when you get into the flooring groups and you'll see like the guys that are gonna attack or say
something negative or you know whatever like
they're they're celebrating people's downfall as opposed to celebrating their
their their wins and so find people in your life they're gonna celebrate your wins and be happy
for you and truly be uh like carrying you on to do greater things and and
taking the next step to improve yourself like that like the first time like I we
actually met Eduardo was at surfaces and he actually I think he like Facebook
messaged me or something he's like I have no idea where I am I'm supposed to be over here I was like bro I'll find
you and they'll find him and his wife and like led him to where he was
supposed to be and then brought her back to the pool because we were hanging out at you know having a pool day
that's right we were in Tennessee and I
the first conversation I was supposed to happen like I started talking I was like hey yeah your brother Daniel preferred for it and then Daniel tell me when you
meet Eduardo tell him that I hate him I was like hold on he's like because he because he won the scholarship I was
supposed to uh I was like there's more of them though
yeah I don't think I ever relayed that that message I remember that you you won it right and
then the next year he won it yeah I got skipped over twice I skipped over
twice and then you know what hopefully CJ's listening because I did they were
emailing about you know more classes that are coming up and I was like you know I don't have time right now plus
I'm banking on winning that scholarship [Laughter]
well it's coming out we're nearing our end I I wanted to point out a few kind
of uh Trends in our conversation communication
like bottling stuff up so communicate uh proactive communication
can help with stress keeping it lower communication on expectations
right like if you can't be there seven tell them between seven and seven thirty
so you got some cushion to manage that expectation that's a simple version of it but like so managing those
expectations and communication and then you know
keeping top of mind what what the task at hand is let's say
that it's kind of the goals it's the win-win piece it's it's all that like what's the task at hand and and staying
focused on that um what other kind of Trends you guys recognized in this
conversation any others
pretty much what you just said there I do not agree with that I mean if you ask
me to repeat it I'm going to say in a really really long version um well you know I will add this to it
though um So based on the conversation it will say that it sounds like
fear is the leading cause of success but with the success no matter what the
success is in your mind just be prepared for a little bit of stress and and figure out a way to deal with it so fear
leading cause of success with success you're gonna have stress grow through pain I think Eduardo said
which is the very basic I mean if you work out you can't expect not to be sore
like you're gonna have pain but that's creating the success you want and then you know realize that stress is
compounding right like The more stress you are about one thing
the more you're going to be stressed out about everything so find that root cause and and focus on on one thing at a time so
that way you can start managing stuff and I think a big part of that especially
for me was talking to someone about what I was stressed about and um even you know my wife and I she she
told me before she was like you don't tell me anything and it's like you know what I I have been pretty
closed off and I I'm not sharing it because it it's like
to me you know just winning a project was just winning a project but it's like sometimes you got to celebrate those
small wins and and let people know like we got this one yeah
and you know celebrating the wins
yep anything to close out here and where do I see you taking notes and yeah no I
don't I'm yeah that what I was going to bring up is uh the only time you can be brave is when you're scared so like the
fact that so many people go through their life in fear and don't do anything to change about it you know the frog in
the boat water that's compounding compounding you should realize you're boiling at some point and and just jump
for it and go for it like I mentioned earliestation like if you got nothing to lose then you got nothing to lose so go for
it yeah um Everybody's scared Everybody's scared Everybody's scared that's that new book you gotta write
everybody scared instead of Everybody Poops everybody
well I do like the the fact that you know uh this was on have you guys ever seen
I'll close out try to make this quick so I don't like waste all the time but have you seen
um uh Evan Almighty it's the sequel to Bruce Almighty
yeah so at one point Morgan Freeman who's playing God in that movie is sitting
with Evan's wife and he's been told to build this Ark and and
he he he says something to the extent that do you think when
you pray to God for strength or for something that he just gives that to you
or do you think he gives you a situation to exercise and get it better and so a lot of times
what you perceive is bad is just a way for you to improve and that's that
progress through stress um you know a lot of times whether you're God fearing or not
these situations come up and I thought it was just interesting how that was put like do you think God like
gives you just gives you strength or gives you a situation where you can exercise your
strength and make it stronger yep that's where um
the failure thing comes in right like you can't learn without failing yeah we've said this before like you
know a rocket our most sophisticated uh laser guided Rockets are off course
ninety percent of the time because the failure is what makes them sends them the the the feedback to make it correct
and it's always correcting until it hits its Target
so that's how we can be as humans so I work at the business assistant
center here in Fort Worth it's like a funded by the city but the score office is right here so like all like SBA stuff
is like I I play with their books but they're looking at them but on the board it says fail is the first attempt in
learning so that that really helped me a lot because if you're trying you're gonna fail everybody's gonna fail and
you just try again a different way you know yeah my first heat welded scene wasn't
very good either [Laughter] well guys thanks for the awesome
conversation we have ended or come to the end of our of our uh podcast here so
I want to appreciate Eduardo for I recognize him for coming on and dropping
some stoic knowledge on us thank you sir that was awesome and Daniel Jose thank
you as always you're a staple I truly appreciate you guys we all do I know the
community really enjoys uh you know consuming some of this content so if you're on here
happen to be on YouTube or one of the uh social medias please drop a like you
know watch the videos drop a comment subscribe request everything yeah do it
all wherever you're consuming uh you know let us know what you're thinking uh
it helps us drive further conversation and future conversations to what the community and what the uh audiences is
interested in so and if they got something that they need to talk about let us know bring them on start talking
The Huddle - Episode 45 - Deep Dive into Go Carrera Pt.2
This week the guys dove into what the installer side of Go Carrera looks like, what features they love, what things they’d like to see added to the app, etc. This is a great episode for Installers who don’t know about Go Carrera and want to learn more. Sign up for your free installer profile today and start using the features we know and love!
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up what's up what's up welcome to the huddle we come at you every Tuesday
three o'clock Central or almost in today's case 304 Central to discuss maintaining forward progress
in your flooring career with me as always my cohorts my partner's in crime
Daniel and Jose out of Grand Rapids Michigan preferred flooring up there go
see him hire him if you're a Contractor on here
um okay so this week we're talking um continuing our go career conversation
which is kind of uh an exciting thing to to share we're always talking about it
offline and hinting around during the huddles last week we discussed about
um the company side this week we're going to discuss install our side
so I wanted to start off with
you know a lot we've got probably eight new installers on this
week and I I get every installer wants to have work to do because it's a job it's a Marketplace platform
what I would encourage every installer to look at this as
your digital resume this is the the fact is is you can be on
go career 100 for free build your profile claim go to trainings
that we talk about go to our training page build your Hammer rating be third
party verified and start to um
build your digital resume this is being something that you can share regardless
of whether you're doing work over the go Carrera uh platform or not it's a
third-party verification of your skills and abilities so if we start with that
and the fact is is that you can set yourself apart with that homeowners uh
for example and even General Contractors you say I'm CFI certified I'm sorry I've asked probably 50 people
this week that are just in the general construction world and not in our flooring bubble
they don't know what the hell it is correct I'm sorry I mean no offense to
CFI or anybody who's who's worked really hard I love CFI and they do it but outside of just our bubble
people don't know and the ones that did they didn't know the difference between
R1 R2 C1 C2 Master the only one that made sense to them was Master they
figured that must be pretty impressive that's the top level right yeah but outside that they didn't is there
three they here's a question I was asked well how many levels does it go if your
R1 and R2 is there an R3 R4 or five or six or seven
they don't know so they don't know where that falls on the uh completion kind of
schedule or you know what I mean like if I if if if
um if it was if there's a hundred certifications in your R2 it's less valuable than if it's
two certifications in the residential world and there's two levels well then
you're at the top level of the residential certification outside of being a Master Certified right
so people we would have to try to get and then you have other training
entities on top of that right so it's not just CFI I mean you get certified in
our decks through or self-leveling through the nafct
what what does that certification mean and part of this is because our industry
will name things certification that is not a certification I know there's
plenty of things that are I got a call the other day here um and the the lady was like hello
um and this is because I answer the phone this is Daniel with preferred she was like Daniel are you CFI I was like
yeah we'll see if I started to find she was like no I'm looking for the company CFI because there's a local company here
that named themselves certified flooring installers to kind of give that illusion
that everyone is certified there and the crazy thing is that no one in there is even CFI certified yeah we might yeah
and I'll build on that even as an additional problem so
I have sent guys to get certified Nora
um or if you look at some of the other certification it lists the company and not the actual installer
like that certification I didn't do anything as the president of the company
certification right I know but that's in the but I didn't earn it I paid for them
to go and I'm not saying I shouldn't be listed as a secondary or something but I'm just saying the the way it's all
portrayed what go Carrera does is take all this confusion and turn it into
a understandable metric one to five metric
that anybody can reasonably understand you know the hammer rating zero to five
you're a two and a half hammer right now there's still education that
needs to be done around that and frankly you could be certified but need
some you know a little bit more training to really become proficient
um I know that you know the harder certifications that we know
of you have to be proficient to even take but I'm talking about what outside
of our bubble of knowledge that that we encompasses the flooring companies in
the flooring you know industry outside of that the people who are hiring us a
lot of times may not understand that stuff so that's the the if we look at as
a digital resume that you can build you can you could take a a CFI training and
mat and our uh and then have an naft it doesn't lock you into one entity either
you can take all these different trainings from different places you could do a training with Mapei direct
with their MTI and then a training at
say uh nafct and then a training at CFI and all those come together and it
Aggregates to your hammer rating going up well your CFI when you're just in one entity
and because we don't have like a national college for flooring right if somebody would start that that solve all
of our problems but like and what I mean is not just started but there's a full
certification apprenticeship like Technical College
that that is you know the standard before you can get into flooring or
something um now obviously the F uh fcef is doing some really great stuff and getting a
10-week course into the uh community colleges and that's a great start uh and
though that's even recognized within the hammer rating for brand new people
um but brand new installers uh that are that come onto the application but think
of it as like your digital resume first off and then when it comes to some
of the great benefits so just a few notes a there are some good deals
on there you can go to your Dal Tile and get 10 off of all your tools and spacers
and sponges and stuff like that the code comes on your completed profile you'll
you get the uh you can go to partner deals there and see how to be able to
redeem that do not be offended if at first they do not if you're in we did do
this uh one of our guys went to a Daltile in Memphis and they were like we
don't know nothing about this deal and he goes just please type this code into your computer this discount code and
they did it and they got it and and um but not every single Dell tile manager
uh knows about it but it's at the corporate level of Daltile just so you
know um but there's also tools for flooring the tool Locker there so there's some
good tool discounts that doesn't that doesn't hurt you could take advantage of that for free you
don't have to do a work order or pay any money to take uh take advantage of those
discounts secondly as our member companies you can connect with new
companies through the application and maybe start working with new companies
that you've never thought of here's the thing though it what it really does is from an installer standpoint it puts the
power in the installer's hands so if you get an offer from a store
whether it's a commercial dealer or let's just say a retailer if a if a work
order is published and you see it whether you get on the maps and you search maps and I'm going to show some
of that here in a minute when I share my screen um but
you can um find it there or maybe you're matched if
you're in the area and a work order comes through and you have the hammer rating desired
then it will match you with that work order and let the company know that
you're a match now you have the ability to accept that work order as is or
decline the work order or negotiated so let's say a sheet vinyl job came up in
your area and you're a three Hammer sheet final guy
and it's a two Hammer job only the two hammer and above guys get matched right
because it's matched on that now you're in a you're maybe you're one of three
guys that have uh shown interest or accepted that bid or that that work
order now it's in the company's hands to look you can chat with the company right
there uh pre-award and make your case as to why you're the the the correct you
know installer for the job but here's the key let's say you negotiate it and you're it's it's a work order for a
hundred yards of sheet vinyl at 15 bucks a yard plus your welding plus your uh
Cove and all this but just for simplicity's sake let's say it's a 15 yard uh install price for uh the the
sheet bottle maybe you're a three Hammer guy and you're like you know what I I eat these
kinds of projects for breakfast but I want 18 a yard well you just simply
click the negotiate button type in 18 and submit your negotiation now it's up
to the company whether or not they award it to you but you can also send them a chat and say
um hey Mr uh you know Mr Jose uh here's
the deal I'm I've I've been doing this forever I
promise you here's the here's the real key I'll take care and make sure your job is done on time or whatever they're
they're differentiator is so there's just a lot of power in the
installer's hands that they they can use and the more installers that are on the
app the higher that you're banding together digitally and
and because of that we can increase rates but sporadic installation installers
trying to raise their rates that's why they've had such a hard time is because it's not a unified voice what happens is
uh this installer starts trying to charge more and he's kind of a lone wolf
while he tries and tries and tries particularly if you're working with you
know commercial D or retail dealers um if it's just you you're probably not
going to be successful in getting that raised over across the entire you might get
that one job with that one guy that has known you for 20 years and you can keep your rates but as far as working with
new companies is what I'm getting at because you want to have the option to work with whoever you want and keep your
schedule full what makes and you know any of I don't care what business you're
in doing it at capacity is where you make money right you if you work 20
hours a week in in uh installing it's going to be tough to make a
full-time living so 100 so having the option to jump on a map
and look at work orders and um and kind of browse uh
you know at scale that works really well and we got to have the installers help to do all this to join the network and
be patient for us to bring companies into those areas and we're not just
bringing on you know we're trying to bring on and we have a pre-qualification process for companies just FYI to bring
on companies who align with our values which are the biggest value I think that
go career has is the fact that we want to improve the standard of living for
our installation community yeah and then you think about it going
on there you can kind of just poking around right on the map you could say oh in this area they're getting around this
much and then in this area they're getting around this much I'd I'd rather work over in this area but then you can
also negotiate you know in that other area saying hey there's quite a separation here let's uh
let's try and Bridge this Gap a little bit
when you were mentioning the the the two Hammer rating and the three Hammer rating and hey this is what I want to
yarn um and you're right like if you've proven yourself to someone then you can stick to your guns and have your your
pricing that that you've earned but um you know in order to increase your network sometimes uh sometimes it's okay
to to take a project and maybe not get what you feel your matches your value but they'll never know that unless you
do some work for them they'll never know your your ability and your skill sets so
um and we we understand that um that's part of business um all together you got to show them
sometimes John steyer says it to him it sounds like it's geared more towards commercial tough sell for residential
but that all depends on the work orders that are on there if there's a bunch of residential work orders on there
I mean yeah I mean there's plenty of dealers that want to be able to just go
through the process of I mean it literally takes about depending on the size of the job but let's say it takes
20 minutes to create a really detailed work order with drawings even if it's
drawings of a house or the kitchen or whatever that that the residential
project has create that shoot it out to the network
and get the responses back all this happened digitally as opposed to call in
installers hey are you free next week like the once they're once an installer
is in a company's Network they can actually look at your schedule and see
where your openings are and shoot work orders directly to you so it
really it doesn't matter uh residential or commercial really it's
who's generating the work now we have future ideas about how to work with
homeowners so he would be correct if a homeowner wanted to work with somebody in our Network it wouldn't work right
they don't they don't it this is B to B at this point it's not a B to C or a c
to B meaning a homeowner cannot at this point download the Go career app and
schedule an installer now we have some thoughts on how that might work in the future and I'd love to run that by uh
everybody on here and and get your feedback but we do have a really kind of
cool approach to how that could work to be working directly with the
homeowners through go Carrera and how that would also benefit you know are the
installers and and particularly kind of some of the uh installers who are aging
out giving them a path forward uh that that is off their knees so I'll share
that here in a bit but so I I think
um let me do a couple of I'm going to move my laptop around a little bit so bear with
me
you know just some screen sharing going speaking of that yeah I'm gonna do a little screen sharing here sorry I'm
looking at my phone here guys but like like who's the OG go Carrera for us my
mom is my insurance guy he has rental units he needs floors here's his car here I
told him you're the best I am the best
at this okay
hey thanks John for commenting you so that way we you know we get some clarification if people don't ask
questions we don't know what's answered amen yeah and I need to call you John
it's been a minute it's been a couple weeks need that fix
Ed well let's see here
okay so what I'll share is just kind of I went through this last week and
there's there's um a little bit of dummy data in here just
uh for obvious reasons but let me
John says Paul congratulations on the 20 years you're old bro [Laughter]
no no whatever whatever John thanks John
let's talk about a busy guy that guy man these long King
he's an officer he's a floor guy owns a business that needs to get a lot on his plate too
there's uh Jim says what if I don't know any good installers in that area
can this get me in contact with proven trusted installers and I think that's really the big ticket item here
yeah the the huge the biggest part is being able to say publish a work order
to any place and you know you can kind of see this is a
map and it shows what we've published out
and obviously there's a lot of work in our core areas with you can see some
different uh work orders but the key is if you go to
um like let's go to pin in job you know if you shoot a work order out
you will get this back as the company and you can look and
see like their verification of what their Hammer rating may be in that
discipline a little bit about the the installer you
know we have to uh constantly stay on top of guys to create their
um to to keep their insurance up to date but this is a big metric this particular
gentleman has done 331 work orders across the network and 152 times he's
been given Kudos so even when you're working with
um a if you have a a person who responds to your work order that does not match
your Hammer rating they may be worth looking at if you consider how many work orders they've
done across the network and how many times they've been given Kudos so that's about a 50 Kudo rating right there
another cool thing is like just to kind of touch on the map this on the installer side now I'm
logged in as a company but this on the installer side would show the ones that are available and matched to that
installer so it just say matched above it and you can go in and
view the details of the project now obviously some of these are in different
states but I mean States as far as status within the application
um but the important thing for an installer is that say your job gets pushed three or four
days they can jump on and be like hey here's a two thousand dollar work order let me look at this oh it's uh it's you
know 335 yards of carpet you know 720 feet of Base I can do that in three days
and my job has pushed but I can knock this one out and then go back to the job that I've been uh working on my other
people on there with with a zero dollar amount would that be like a t m type thing you can put one for zero dollars
saying that is just tnm it may be a change order in this case
uh so that was that that is one
um that he had to go back and do some work that was a punch list item
and since he had already been paid for the uh work uh we just wanted to
give them the details of the punch list that's what it looks like but as the network grows you can see
that this kind of scenario in each major Metro is the goal is to have large
amounts of work orders in Dallas and Oklahoma City and all of the major
metros the the difficulty
uh I was going to show you we had one on I noticed over in Virginia somewhere
where was that
oh it may have been picked up or something I thought I'd seen one in Virginia the other day but the
difficulty is that you either have to build out the installer side or the company side as I've said before
um stop sharing and and just kind of talk through this as we build out
the installer Network in a given area we're trying to provide as much value as
possible to allow a installer to use go career outside of
half and you know actually getting work until we then sign
up the companies in that area that can produce work right that can be you gotta start with one or the other right it's
either get a bunch of installers and then have the companies be like all right now it's worth it or get a bunch of companies and then for the installers
be like all right it's worth it but the thing is you got to start somewhere and that's what we're trying to do right now
yeah well that's that's why I I kind of think you know starting with the
installer from the aspect that installers can still utilize it as like
I said a digital resume showing that hey I'm third party verified here here's my
uh profile you know they can click on the QR code they can the whoever you're
showing it to see your public profile and know your Hammer rating in each one
of the multiple disciplines we're going to continue to make that more robust and make it like a I want it to be like a
sales page for the installer to sell himself on himself or herself on well we
talked about in uh or Arizona right is that where we talked about it when the
ideas that you have that's like that's like next level stuff that hasn't installed from from the installer
perspective I never would have ever imagined that any company would ever want to do that to help out that's
that's amazing I mean there's a lot of good things coming up just got to get the traction um to justify it all and yeah so what
Jose is speaking of is we are kind of trying to gauge and not love if
anybody's on here that wants to respond to this but gay Jay uh the idea of
turning your profile that's in go Carrera into a public website and giving you a free website that would be you
know a two to three page website that talks I mean with your gallery and your
Hammer rating and if you have done work a Costco career what's your Kudos and
work order uh completion ratios but then
also have it more robust than just a profile and have it actually be a sales
page for an installer and you just the two-man crew a good a well-trained
two-man crew you could put your a website on your card and when somebody
checks you out they're going to be looking at like completed projects and this kind of stuff it's like really kind
of cool um idea to be able to allow an installer to
truly promote themselves and set themselves apart there's there's very few installers if I I've done a a few
surveys that have a website right it's your larger labor shops or it's somebody
like you guys who are kind of Bridging the Gap between part flooring company part installation
house and going more towards obviously building your flooring company full
service for inside so it's it's just something great to have
and when we talked about I just looked at you like are you serious how come nobody's ever thought of that so Eduardo
says that it's like a social media for skilled trades and we've talked about that as too right like how can it be
more like a social media thing where it's not on an actual social media site
but it is its own thing and it's only the guys that are on there well I tell you what Eduardo that would
be a fairly easy thing to implement for us uh is
creating the uh installer uh forum
so to speak that uh would be just almost exactly like any social media feed that
you uh are and it would be that you're used to but it wouldn't be Facebook or
Instagram or any of that it would just only be wrapped within go career within go career installers and companies like
and really it could be just the installers on one side and companies on other and they
both could talk or mash them all together but that would be fairly easy to do uh
it's a matter of what do you guys think do you think having a kind of a a social media aspect
within go Carrera uh I think I think it'd be easier for people to grasp when they're like all right I'm gonna get on
here and talk to the the people the other people that are on there that are you know like-minded like
me because he also said you know adding uh classes and training civil Carrera
he's talking about ship having the flooring distributors do the marketing
but that's all on the flooring distributors I'd like that's that's up
to you personally I think because like us we have um like the the stickers that we have
that I made up for the huddle with the QR codes that we have those in the Distributors for people to scan
yeah there's um there's a there's a fine line on there right like you can't have
any any one distributor um advocating for one person or a team or
one thing like that they can't they can't do that they have to uh be very uh political about the way they
approach a lot of things they can't just uh show favorites um although
um they can buy me tacos though I will I will have some lunch if they wanted to do it
but as far as like the that one I would say one page website right
because there's plenty of people on there it's like what do they call them a landing page
right that's essentially all you'd be creating hey this is a landing page I'm verified by gold Carrera these are my
stats here are a few pictures of the work that I've done that's really all you need it doesn't even have to get too in depth
and then at the bottom you know this is how you contact me or something right yes it's really looked
at like a kind of like a sales page and then what we thought was page two would
mimic your calendar that's in go career so oh so that people who see you can see
your availability he said is there a leaderboard
hey we've talked about some of those things uh I I am going to tell you about a game uh the game piece that we we have
partially developed is a uh trivia game uh the trivia game would basically be
something about flooring so you'd pick your discipline let's say it's resilient and then you'd go through some questions
and if you get the questions right you earn moves on this board and the board
is basically a matching board they call it Mahjong but it's really popular game you're talking like a hundred and
something million downloads on the App Store so as you match these tiles and
you complete the games you earn you earn the moves by answering the questions so
you're getting educated about the flooring installation side of things the
tile site's been built out more like question and answers because I know one of the questions is uh and I think I've
said this here before is you know when is it appropriate when is it um now it's States like this
uh urethane adhesive matches uh ANC 118.3 epoxy specs except for what
conditions or something like that and the answer is in extreme heat so
therefore not good for commercial kitchens and things like that that's where epoxy should be used or shower
floors like that's the two spots that they do not recommend using the urethane versus in place of an epoxy right it's a
pretty simple question and answer but there's a lot of those you answer that question correctly you get five moves on
the board and as you complete these these puzzles it's going to display an
image on the back side and that's typically going to be um maybe a sponsor of some sort of the you
know whether it's you know sure knocks or uh shown ox or or Mapei or somebody
sponsoring that portion but the idea is that as you complete get the game you
actually earn points that can be redeemed at a uh Florida core or a Lowe's or a Home
Depot and so you play to earn and it's within flooring the puzzles are just matching
puzzles things um I could give you you know show you some details of that but not only that
if you're someone who is already knowledgeable you're gonna might fly through and get some extra points but if
you're an individual who is still in the process of learning just imagine the interest that is going to spark right
like well they're going to go and find out information and Google is going to be blowing up
yeah look who got that well let's see if I can show
just a mock-up of the
let me show you something kind of that gives you an idea of what the
there we go well Paul I got a quick question for you
to fill some of this air yeah let's do it how long do you think will it take on
average to sign up one individual one person to for their own uh go Carrera um
account typically the um so I went through the installer flow
this morning uh myself actually and the it took me probably
20 minutes to get through signing up and then it's going to take a few days or weeks even for
um verification the verification process to happen so a safer experience and say we go we
get five individuals who want to sign up all at the same time go do do a podcast do a live so that way people can go back
and look at it will we be able to uh simultaneously sign them up as long as we're in an open conversation Forum just
like this yeah would five be a decent number to shoot
for would it be less would it be more as far as as far efficiency for time well I
think um being able to get them signed up is you
know we can have other people on the call that could be just be like blazing on the backside like if an installer
wanted to get signed up they can literally get the concierge kind of sign up and just if they're scared of
um uh technology in a way like the sign up process can happen
right there alongside a good career member so I mean Ben does this all the
time who's you know one of our uh you know he's our
client uh director of client success and acquisition so he's talking to
installers constantly and helping them through some of the uh tough sides of of
getting um signed on typically where we've seen
the problem is when we're wanting experience documentation and sellers don't quite know what to to
load and we're just asking for anything that proves the years of experience I know them boys or you know a few
references or something that we don't even care how good you were back in 2000 we just care that you were actually
installing in 2000 you know proof of your certifications and that
stuff will help shorten the time frame of getting you approved and verified otherwise what we have to do is
look on the website see if you're on there but we don't stop there because unfortunately a lot of the training
entities don't keep their websites up to date yeah no
and so we get on there and you're not on there and then we're like okay well
that's not ideal um how can we uh you know so we then call
them and ask them straight up hey you know do
you have uh Jose or Daniel did they finish this
this course and you know try to get a verbal
verification so it's really dealing with the I'm sorry about being distracted I
was trying to find the the game mock-up and uh in the sir on the server here but
the the real complicated part of it is that we do verify everything so if you
say your CFI certified r1r2 C1 C2 and master well we're actually going to find
out if you are uh same with journeyman installers uh on the union we actually
had a work order um down in southeast I better not say exactly where but just from protection
of this guy's uh I don't know that that would cause it cause anybody to know but basically one
of the installers claimed that they were a 10-year journeyman installer out of out of uh I believe Wisconsin or
something or maybe it was Minnesota um named the local and we called the local
and they'd never heard of him
so then come to find out he worked with the journeyman installer who was there
and was verified and he worked with that journeyman installer for 10 years so he
figured he could claim that he was do you get what I'm saying yeah yeah so
he wasn't an actual journeyman in Stellar himself right he was trying to have the the
pasta or the gentleman's experience passed through him as his own okay
um he probably didn't even have to lie about that all he had to do was say hey I got this many years experience this is
the gentleman I worked with and this is who trained me like yeah and and it may not you know because
there's no way for us to verify how good the guy was that trained you unless that
guy's already on good career right and it's also hard to tell um
from just because you work with a great installer doesn't mean that great
installer is a great trainer I think we've all probably been with a mechanic uh or a journeyman installer that didn't
teach us uh very much because it was always just like at least that was my
first experience you know what I think everybody's guilty of that at some point right like
you might be good at training you're not going to be great at it all the time Eduardo says it's good to get dishonesty
vetted out he said that he's got 47 years of experience
how old are you Eduardo like 30 27 something like that he's like 20
something uh I mean he looks a lot older than he is that's hilarious
yeah I mean the idea is obviously to try
and like clean up the
um the option like I just
I think for all of us it's just about oh check this out so here's a here's an
idea now uh full disclosure this is kind of like a prototype type type stuff yeah
but this is can you see this yep so we've called it different things but
we propose this to a few manufacturers to see if they wanted to uh kind of
support the gaming and we've had some hits and don't pay attention to I am not
we are not partnered with anybody at this moment these are just um people we presented to but here's the
idea is that you can kind of see you know [Music] um
the question an answer and then it most of the tile
stuff would be brought to you by the ntca and then um
the installer's correct answers earns moves on the game board so then you're
you know matching these two tile Snappers here and then
um The Game Board review reveals products and or promotions or discounts to the
installer and then at the end of the day um you know sponsorship opportunities
and and trying to help uh get the knowledge passed down in a fun and kind
of Novel way that's that's our gaming idea I
I probably need to run a survey and uh but it'd be interesting if anybody's
watching this on YouTube or whatever I mean comment and tell me would you like
to have a game that you earn not only points on that can be redeemable at a
retailer I will make that happen if we have if we have the traction I guarantee I can uh you know go to just about any
retailer and say hey our network of several thousand installers would like to start redeeming some points at your
place that's kind of an easy easy ask on that side but would you enjoy
um learning in that way and then also you like you get the points but you also
can earn Hammer rating with a certain amount of points it'll bump your Hammer rating up now it's not going to be like
you went to a certified class and used your hands but you know just bump it up a little bit you're putting in some
words it's a continuing education unit right yeah everyone has to do them yeah whatever except for the flooring guys we
don't have to do it well this could this could fulfill that kind of continued education side a lot of the
manufacturers who have shown interest are really interested in like okay this
is how we can launch new products and get the installer base very quickly and the entire installer
base not just the few that come to Tice or you know the hundred or so they or
200 that go to CFI but how much more efficient is it for them
to get you trained on how to utilize their products because we can embed videos and stuff like that as well so it
was kind of a cool idea we haven't taken it all the way to finishing we've mocked it up and we've gotten the framework
done but we don't have what's needed which is I don't want to play it already
an anchor an anchor uh sponsor which would be like a mohawk or something like
that to Anchor the at that application because it's very expensive to build that game out but um what's your guys's
thoughts would you actually play that thing so yeah I would play that and you know what's what's I was looking at the
mock-up there and I almost wonder like uh it looked I couldn't really see it because it's small on the screen but uh
I wonder if you could almost uh use instead of just the one big picture maybe the tiles are separated into uh
section A and section B for tools for specific disciplines too right um it'll help people learn the tools a
little bit more and um yeah so the the tiles are typically going to be
tools or something of that nature that fit the discipline that you've signed in as so what you'll get to pick which
discipline you're playing so if you're a tile guy you're going to play the tile kind of thing because it's hard to
expect a carpet guy to know what the what's the proper grout joint size right
but at the same time if you're wanting to learn that you have the option right yes absolutely there's no you don't have
to have a hammer rating in that discipline you can go through and play the game and get pretty freaking
proficient from a mind standpoint right how to install tile and Eduardo says
what kind of music plays and is there a psychology behind the reward sounds you are using
use the the sonic coin when he gets the coin
so that was soothing it's a soothing sound with a Bing
just like I I was thinking Mario here's showing me showing my age instead of
Sonic I was thinking like Mario Brothers right two weeks ago the movie's awesome but uh
Edward was right like sounds um a new kind of program you right like you hear a certain sound every time and
then you get a reward you know make you happy every time you hear it so that's not a bad angle there
yeah I I would imagine that it you know it coming with some
um You Know audio visual uh rewards right I mean that's just how we are as
humans you know like a congratulations that kind of stuff that happens on whatever your candy crushes of the world
so anyway what we're trying to do is at the end of the day to bring kind of
I know this wasn't um what I'm trying to get across is a concept I know you guys are the same way
like the idea is that we band together as installers we create our profiles and
you have it costs you absolutely nothing to start a profile take advantage of the
the discounts and then if we did add the social media part in even communicating
now I do have a question if it was a social media side to it anybody gets in
but then how long um you could see you've been part of forums
before especially on Facebook you know how toxic they can become very quickly but once you've got an indigo career
there's a real Community there I think that any installer and go Carrera that does any you know the beliefs in it can
have a great conversation with another guy but you get somebody coming in if that was a funnel to get them you know
like anybody could join you didn't have to be a good career member or a go career installer to to be on the social
side um would you think there's a time frame that they either sign up or or get get
off I would say I would be worried about as too many uh just people trying to
start you know how it happens you're not a go clear remember I can see that you have access to login but you
you might be ghosted you don't have access to comment on anything or to like anything you can just just read through
what's going on right in order to comment you must sign up yeah I mean you got become a member so I mean that's a
pretty awesome idea right there guys
because then all the go career members could share best practices on you know
with any software there's tricks and and ways to to use it if more efficiently
than you know if you've ever used QuickBooks you know there's little ways around things or or any any even your
social media sites there's little tricks to promote yourself better and all this stuff
um you know go career remember sharing best practices with one another on how to
um actually take the your career forward and not have it a you know a whole
crybaby session which I've seen or you know a dogging session I've seen guys
just test out how the other people on the on a particular group would react
and they post some crappy install and and then get attacked and they're like I
knew this would happen that's not even my work I was just seeing what you guys would say yeah
then you'll say the funniest one to me was he's taking a picture of the backside of uh and all and said hey can
I use this to stretch in the room because it looks like that thing yeah that was the funniest one to me but
um for stuff like that right like if you get bored and you're you're doing that you're just you're bored maybe maybe you
need a site like go career to find some additional work to keep your mind occupied maybe a game maybe a game that
can teach you something yeah and then as far as like you were talking about betting and stuff when we're talking about social media
um was there a spot on there because we signed up a while ago I don't remember to put your actual like business social medias and stuff in there
uh no that's kind of the idea with the website is that you'd be able to link all your social media sites off of that
so you'd have all the information that's in good career about you and you'd have a website that mimics that but plus you
can add your social media you can add some videos about yourself and you you can make it more robust
I can tell you one thing we don't do much at go career that's not like top of
the line from a technology standpoint the the websites would be freaking
awesome and I was just talking about you were talking about you know verifying and stuff like that what if they had
um a business page that's been out for 10 years yes yes that works by the I'm
sorry I misunderstood your question absolutely if they have a social platform that that
is you know obviously they're time stamped and we can go back and and see that they have business activity back
when they claim to be installing that that does work for your 55 60 year old
guy it doesn't always work because social media has not been around long enough to to grasp all their uh years of
experience but we've had guys just send in literally old invoices they they or
that that um paid invoices we've had guys uh uh give
reference to stores like actual stores that they worked for back in the day
that we've called and verified yeah he worked here back in 1992 you know just
that's it like we don't care if it's we're not trying to check and see how good you were back then either that's
kind of a misconception the whole idea is just to try to qualify the years that
you said you've worked because we all know the guys that say they've been doing it for 20 years and the truth is
they haven't uh okay that transparency is where we can have more trust
across the the the interaction that's what I'm trying to
think of more trust across the interaction equals to better paying situations
um more transparency allows for a two Hammer guy to be doing a two Hammer job and not competing with somebody who's
been doing it for six months right those are the tricks that go career brings in like
one of the I mean I'd love to hear from the network but like one of the things that I've
heard why guys don't get um certified is the first one was they don't know about it like they don't
know where to go get the training I don't think our industry does a great job at promoting themselves from a
training aspect um because when you do it on social media you're typically followed by other
flooring guys so we think everybody sees these things that are on your Facebook feed but it's because we interact with
everything that is flooring that we see all that stuff you know that's that's
the truth like they're not attracting new people who need the training because
those people they're not meeting them where they're at but
um so a lot of this is you know using everything we have to try
to get the uh installer vetted on the network and then banding together to
increase pay by separating yourself from other Hammer rated people
it becomes a competition like a professional sport
you know the Giants no matter how terrible they are are not going to go play a high school football team
right right or or the Jaguars when they were you know 2 and 14 there was talk
about them playing uh the the the Alabama at the that year was undefeated
and they were like who would win you know but that will never happen like you're only competing with you know
other NFL guys so to speak and that's that's what go Carrera creates is you're
competing with other quality like quality guys because the
ham the work orders are generated with a hammer rating filter so so it keeps the
installers within their their comfort zone their parameters their skill set and it also helps uh the flooring stores
or anyone else who is putting the work out there with getting the right guy for
the the installation I mean that's what are down here you want to elevate
up there like you know this is where I want to be right like how much work do you have will you get paid oh really you
know how do I get to that point and and that's where these training entities don't do a very good job of promoting it
right they're promoting what they what they have to offer the installer they're not promoting um what information the installer will
have to offer their clients after they're done yeah there's no throughput to to using that training to Market
yourself or separate yourself okay we've seen it firsthand where you know guys call us hey what do you charge
for this and then we're we tell them what we charge do they get that I don't know because you know
that a lot of everyone the question is should they get that right yeah and then
you see some of these jobs that they produce and they're like I hope they're not getting that because if they're getting the same thing that I'm charging
and this is what's going on that's that's not cool either right and some people get they charge a lot more than
what we do too with a lot less training or or I would say uh credentials not
training I would say they probably have a lot of experience but it's because they've they've earned it you know they've been around long enough and they
have they've been with the right group of people to to earn that and make kudos
to them but not everybody is that fortunate well I always tell guys like
um we had a guy up in Kansas city is like I'm I'm not I don't
I have one old certification but other than that I'm self-taught and I worked
with my uncle and I will admit he's a very good cheap bottle installer I mean he is I've seen his work we've worked in
why why would I want to be on here I you know there there's no reason I was like
well okay well you you're the are you as good as you say you are and he's like well
yeah I was like well no one else knows I mean just you it's like you in that one store but what if that guy what if that
store goes under what if that store decides to close down which is going to be a pandemic here in the next 10 years
there's a lot of older store owners that are simply don't have exit plans or
secession plans so what if the store you're working for the Commercial contractor you're working for sells or
the company or the area gets unionized and now it's only Union installers
employee that's fine too but you as a sub working for that place I'm just
saying don't put all your eggs in one basket I mean that's a common Biz that's a a business 101 teaching go career
allows you to not put all your eggs in one basket it allows you to work with any company that's on the network and
we're we're gonna grow that very quickly that this year um we've already got three companies on
the backlog and it's just a matter of kind of finishing up with those guys
um but what do companies want to see they want to see some installer density in the areas they're working so we're we're
kind of always teeter-tottering back and forth um and you know what you said that you
wanted to make a trip up here to Michigan to come and hang out and I think that uh um once the weather actually warms up
because it was snowing this morning let me tell you how upset I was this morning um once the weather breaks and they do make
that trip maybe we should plan ahead and try to get some traction and get some installers and get a group together
let's have a party up there I mean I'll throw a party and let's just talk about it and I don't mean like you know but
I'm just mean like getting together some food maybe some drink and have a have a
conversation with as many installers as possible and and what I really like the
most is when is installers to conversate with me and tell me what why it sucks in
their head because they'll have this image in their head that this is stupid I've literally been told that by
installers I've never had industry people or professional companies or any good installer ever tell me that but I
have had the guys that are fearful to have their real to to be transparent
about their skills and transparent about their years of experience that's that they're I certainly understand why some
installers are so reluctant to it but I I encourage conversation I encourage
like tell me what you think could be better what could make it even better
for installers look at it this way here's another thing look at it as a digital uh resume and
then think of it like you you own go Carrera and you have a uh
a development team that is willing to to do some things to make it more valuable
to you you just have to voice what that is what do you think would make it more uh worthwhile and valuable to you share
that with us what would make your life easier and that's really what is yeah tell us what your challenges are like I
know that when we first started building go career one of the big challenges one of the big hard things is a lot of
companies and this has changed a little bit but a lot of companies
as included at the time you had to come to our office sign a lien release
then you get a check and then you go to your bank and deposit the check or go to my bank and cash a check and then you
pay your guys and you had to take off early because we paid on Mondays at that
point uh a side note we had to do that because if we paid on Fridays we'd have too many people not show up over the weekend on
weekend work so we had to start paying on Mondays but anyway we we pay on
Mondays means you're gonna have to leave the job site at three o'clock come to our office suddenly release Gates check
get to the bank before five that's all done seamlessly
approved approved paid I was like you just paid him that quick yep done it's
like yeah I've done it on airplanes like literally paid for the Wi-Fi
to be able to pay while I'm 30 000 feet in the air
so it allows companies to also go and and installers to have good interaction
like uh one of the things we've really started doing at the flooring company is going when we go out to job sites taking
pictures of the things that we need fixed throwing them in the chat which is
attached to that work order and then letting the installer know hey finish
these items and you can Bill me complete you know and then we've also the
installers have used it a lot to take video and throw that in the chat or
um which a little grainy honestly but pictures come out perfect and taking
pictures of hey this substrate I'm gonna need 20 bags of floor prep they throw
that in the chat shows all the job site conditions and then send us a change order for you know doing the 20 bags of
self leveler that's approved thank you so it really
just is a real uh job site communication right yeah too because it's
so you got something to show whoever you're working for too whoever you have the contract with this is what was done
this is proof because there's like we've dealt with it where they say that a lot
of people don't document stuff so it's like we were guilty of that early on but like
once you get burnt a couple times you start you start tracking everything and and this platform right here
it's the requirement right yeah track projects so I'm going to tell you about
I'm going to tell you about the uh we're out of time but I'm gonna do it anyway uh so we're we're gonna be
we're on the final stages of starting this a video conferencing within go
Carrera it's going to be called link I believe and so say for example I shot
you guys at work order and you're in Michigan you're doing an Auto Zone up there for me just example you run into a
problem you click the link button and it automatically launches to my phone and
we we are on a video conference similar to what we're doing right here yeah
except uh the camera always starts facing out
on the installer side and so you can show your your
project manager whoever you're working for the job site condition the cool part
comes is we can make notations on the
um right there on the screen and each other see them so say you're like pointing at something and you take an
air you draw an arrow on the screen I see that
so as you show me something I might be like hey look at this right here and I Circle it and you see it on your screen
on the video it's super cool I can't even explain to you how how cool it is and then is that recorded and then saved
so here's the awesome side the chat is going to be embedded in there as well so I you can also chat between us so you
can be like did you so you cannot so for example you're
showing me something that that um a wall is completely out of whack or whatever
and you're gonna have to fix it um you're showing me you put it on the
screen and you you just write with your finger you're you're like half inch low on the substrate right and then that
picture gets saved and each time everything is documented our chat around
that is documented and it comes at the end of that call that video call a
report is generated and put in the file that's attached to that work order and
man if I showed you this you would be like literally it would explode right now
you'd be blown away at how crisp and clean
um it you just the the the report is so good it it logs
it records all the video every picture you took every chat say for example
you're on a job site we need the the superintendent to join you just boom and
he doesn't even have to be a member of go career and he can join that same video call and you'll be like hey James
the substrate is completely messed up I know you're on lunch and you're an hour
away or whatever but can you give us approval to self-level this or whatever uh the scenario is obviously a lot of
superintendents can't can't do that but a lot can and have the power to you know give you the approval to move forward
but there's a so many uh times that I've ran
out to job sites because what my installer is trying to explain to me over the phone I cannot understand
like they speak English and I do too but I can't understand what they're trying
to tell me Well the terminology there's sometimes there's just some disconnect right uh like if you came on one of our
jobs we we wouldn't say trash can we wouldn't say tank but somebody gave it that name a long time ago and we thought
it was hilarious and it just stuck we've said it so many times we'll be making fun of them and it stuck but that's
that's what you're talking about too now um is there a way to have an internet app
like that to where there's like a translate version or like if someone is not bilingual say
we have someone who's predominantly uh speaks Spanish and they're more comfortable explaining it in Spanish is there a way for that or am I throwing a
curveball into this conversation no we are we are uh we're working on Native
translation so the idea with Native translation is you could type in English
but it come across to them in Spanish if that's what they've selected and then when they they can type in
Spanish and it comes across to you in English
yeah well it's on the backlog I mean you know a lot of our uh Hispanic Crews have
requested it it's a it's a it's a bit difficult more difficult than you would
think it's not just like taking Google taking a English word and throwing it in Google and getting a response it's like
trying to make it more native and real time translation so you don't get it in
English and then have to translate it into Spanish it just comes over
in Spanish even if you typed it in English so yeah we're working on that I think
we'll have that done here I mean we'll definitely have it done this year but
well guys I have kept you uh nearly 15 minutes over once again we get going on
this stuff and close it out with uh Eduardo says hammerating leaderboard
with monthly drawings I I like it
yeah he's got some ideas um I like the Hammer Hammer rating
leaderboard I think that's what made me start thinking that the game is we were going to have a Leaderboard on the game like how many points you've earned and
and published that all the time like have it real time so uh as guys are
earning more points and then put their Hammer rating right next to it or something but a hammer
writing leaderboard would be um it'd be fun if it was in region
otherwise the leaderboard is going to be like this this but uh by region and what
do you say with Rewards or something yeah with monthly drawings or yeah
monthly drawings for the top 50 installers something like a mixer that way like if you get if you're one of the
top 50 you can join in a mixer monthly and then uh
I don't know maybe there's some things where you can have a credit towards a training in uh
and your discipline credit towards uh some tools you know that's I mean this
there's a lot of people taking notes on this because I this is the truth of it guys as I listen and I try to I like the
leaderboard with the drawing a monthly drawing and then have uh the social attachment
that idea right there can evolve into so much more than just that as well right it can push
um individuals uh further than they thought that they could ever be pushed by their peers um and that's really what
it's about is is helping each other build on top of the foundation we
already have well you know when it's a lot closer than you think it really could uh put a cool Dynamic together if
you think about it where if you're Hammer rating for each one of your disciplines was part of your profile on
the social site right your picture and your Hammer ratings right next to you the the the the lower Hammer rated guys
would know exactly who to go to to be like dude how'd you get four and a half hammers like I've never seen somebody
that high he's over here putting stuff together already I love Eduardo man you couldn't even put
me first what you didn't hurt it bro oh man if you got
if it's if people are not joining this thing you are missing out on some fun I'm telling you what Eduardo coming in
like that hey hold on hold on hold on no but he's got number one is one like come
on bro number one number one that was intentional okay I got some
work to do I'm gonna report back I gotta get out of here too I got my son's got baseball practice in 15 10 minutes I'm
gonna report back to you on what we can do on uh leaderboard and the social side we already did have a a social aspect
that that uh but not quite in this idea and the idea of having the members able
to comment and work back and forth but non-members you can you can read up and
talk and or read up it's just can't comment can't you know you can't come in and you
know add poison to the to the great conversation right and it's only like a
trial thing too right you only got seven days you can go on there and see because then that way that people are that are
just trying to spy on there like if there's a give it some of the stars or something or keep on going on there they're gonna
have to create something every few days or something that that'll just stop them from doing it yeah and the cool thing is
because it would be driven by go career everybody on there is who they say they are it's not some somebody you know like
on these other social sites you cannot be who you say you are you're gonna be who you say you are on this right right
and there's accountability to talking yeah yeah you know what I mean like on
Facebook and then go talk crap on your Facebook too there you go the people who log on as guests have to use one of
their other social medias as their temporary ID so that way they can be traced and tracked
that way yeah just a lot of those other socials um are fake they're not who they really
say they are on there either especially your Instagrams and twitters but
Facebook's more authentic but uh just super thought yeah I'm uh
I'm I'm logging that all right gentlemen hey thanks for hanging with me uh a little extra here it was a fun time and
uh yeah we'll keep we'll keep talking we've still only scratched the surface though I know it's hard to get through
everything all right guys well we will see you guys next week same bat Time same bat place
thank you so much and Eduardo thanks for I guess I don't know man I didn't get any I didn't even see my name on the
leaderboard but thank you for that great idea all right all right see you guys
The Huddle - Episode 44 - Deep Dive into Go Carrera Pt.1
This week the guys take a deep dive into Go Carrera, starting with companies. They discuss features built just for the companies, how Go Carrera makes life easier for the company, and future feature ideas. Stay tuned for next week when they take on part two and do a deep dive into the installer side of GC!
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up
I usually say what's up flooring family I'm going to say what's up skilled professionals out there
uh welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday at 3 P.M Central
where typically Daniel Jose and myself discuss maintaining forward progress in
your flooring career so we're in our last the last part of a of
a kind of a three-part series although it's kind of listed as two uh in
estimating and bidding we've pretty much went over everything but to round it out we're going to talk
about certified payroll projects or the Davis space at bacon act and
um how you as an installer as a subcontract installer uh in particular
uh should you know some of the things you should know uh when when looking at
these types of projects and the paperwork and the requirements that are are there so
Daniel we were chatting offline you guys how do you guys approach your certified
payroll projects or David's bacon projects or do you avoid them all the all the way around we have typically
avoided them all together because uh over here in our area we're the only ones and this is where we kind of had
that little conversation right where like we're the only ones around the area that actually pay our employees
on a W-2 and uh around here it's a lot of the other guys from what I've gathered over
the years seem to think that it's okay to not pay themselves those rates since
they are the owners so there will be like a chain of a sub of a sub of a sub like
everyone on that project is typically their own business or there's just one guy on there and then I don't know how
they get away with it but no one so they all claim yourself up a sub and
and right either that or they they have a team there and it's just nothing is kept track of how
it should which is crazy because you know based on the conversation that I've had with some of these contractors
everything is like super documented so I have no idea how
they do it or what they do but um on some of the projects when my brother and I were working by ourselves
that's kind of how we did it um and the companies that we were doing the work for that's what they told us so they it
was pretty much you don't have to pay yourselves the rates just fill this out and let us know you know the
how much you were paying yourself so that way we can turn it in and that's what we were doing
but that was just you know us by ourselves so I haven't that's something that we
really haven't touched and we've seen you know with the Freedom of Information Act some of the rates that these uh
companies are going in at for prevailing wages
it's like they're going in at under normal rates and how do you even
pay these guys well first off higher rates like that
the the so let's talk about a couple of things a is
[Music] um when you're looking at a certified payroll job
you got to get the wage determination sheet first that wage termination sheet varies so
greatly between counties and jurisdictions um giving an example we got a a large
certified payroll project going on up at Fort Riley and
I think the tile on their pays uh the the wages
58 something 58 62 I believe somewhere
around there so you know if you're if you're looking at
a project and you do and you can install a hundred square foot with you by yourself in a day
and you're and you you have to and and you're gonna cost you know let's call it
fifty dollars an hour well the easy math that's you know on a eight
hour day let's call it real close to 500 bucks and your tile price per square foot is
going to have to be north of five dollars a foot if your average output's 100 square feet
for you to make any any profit outside of paying for yourself and that's not even having a helper
uh or or an apprentice so you know you got to look at these things and and
especially if you're being offered to do a certified payroll job by the square
foot and then you're going to fill out the U.S Department of Labor form which is the certified payroll form
so that's how we do it mainly is we'll have the sub whoever owns that that
subcontracting company um you know they're gonna fill out their own certified payroll forms for each
person that they paid and all the proof of payment you've seen those forms before haven't you Jose or I meant
Daniel yeah Jose was actually just right here he said that he's going to be signing in in a second so just keep a
lookout for him I was putting it in the chat but yeah we filled them out before and
let me see if I can share um Ashton if you're there let me share
let me see if I can share my screen
um
I think you just gotta go up and to participants and make me a host
[Music] s and and what you're talking about too you know that goes beyond just
the certified payroll stuff it's you can get all your rates if you break it down that way to make sure that you're going
to be profitable it's good I'd be looking I I that's a great
Point Daniel is like consider that on all your jobs but particularly when
you're talking about and the reason I say the wage determination is so important is
because the the fact is
in some areas the tile lab for example a tile journeyman tile installer is 29
dollars and in some areas it's 60 bucks I mean it varies that much yeah I think over
here for the tile guys it's I think around 56. and then and then you always have to
look at where our as a you know carpet or resilient Guy
where do you fit in because you're gonna have to go based on something else because we're not in
there yeah most times we're not in there every once in a while you'll find floor layer
on the wage determination otherwise you get lumped in with the painters or
something like that or Carpenters or something because I think over here we're ran with the Carpenters so
you gotta you gotta be careful how you're classifying yourself yeah and you got to make sure you're classifying
correctly too here's a a little tip if you're going to do a certified payroll job if your helper or your your
Apprentice is installing tile and the Corps of Engineers puts in their daily
report that this guy's a tile installer and then you turn in your certified payroll and I'll show you what that
looks like real quick what a report looks like for our audience this is can you see my screen okay
yeah I can see it yeah yeah so this is you know you got your work classification right here and your hours
worked standard and over time each day and then the rate of pay and then the gross earned and then all
your tax stuff and total deductions so this isn't
if if your core of engineer guy labels your Apprentice as a tile Setter which
is typically what they're classified as the or what the classific uh
classifications called within the certified payroll wage determination uh and not a tile finisher which is
typically you know 15 dollars less or so uh if they see them set in tile and they
report them as a tall Setter for those hours they're going to call your blood I
mean they're going to make you redo your certified payroll and pay him the difference that has actually happened to
us where we had a really good Apprentice that was set in tile alongside the
journeyman installers and they classified him as a tile Setter and we
had to go back and pay him tile Setter wages for those hours that he was actually installing
another piece of info is this is a daily work classification
uh or weekly you know you the I guess what I'm saying is this is a weekly work
classification so you could get tied into that rate of pay for a whole week so
the key here is this form is not incredibly complicated to fill out
but you can see it breaks everything down so you got to be the sub has to be
paying their employees as employees and keeping out the FICA taxes and the
withholding tax and any other deductions and then you know you've got to have
they've got to be able to track and provide um proof of all this as well so that
when you get over here you know you got your final amounts
so anyway I thought it'd be helpful just to see what a certified form looks like for those of you who have not
so typically we're going to have our our sub fill that out uh now if we're having
our in-house guys do it then our employee W2 employee installers then we're going to have our office manager
will fill this out based off of their mobile timesheets
yeah I think this is you know some some good information for the guys because a
lot of them you know when you really look at the big picture they don't even keep track of everything in like QuickBooks or anything a lot a lot of
the guys that I you know know personally that around the area their boxer
receipts and you know just putting it in a folder and giving it to uh an
accountant at the end of the year which at least they have an accountant I'll give them that yeah yeah at least they've they've taken some
steps there and there's software out there like you said QuickBooks go career does a lot of
this um you know a fair amount of the work we're going to
be even adding some more features for installers to have more financial tools at their disposal
um or seat capturing and that kind of thing where you can keep a loose set of books if you don't have a full
accounting system like uh QuickBooks but so I guess the biggest
um pieced all this that I wanted to make sure I conveyed to anybody looking at a certified payroll job is to consider
uh the the paperwork when you're you know gonna look at doing a job
you're gonna have to report and a sub of a sub of a sub of a sub the problem is
then you're stuck in with your your GC typically has insurance requirements and
not everybody's going to have you know for a big project say a five million dollar umbrella or something hell we
have a I think an eight million dollar umbrella so you got these big requirements for for jobs that
I mean a lot of Subs aren't going to pay four or five or ten thousand dollars for a year of of liability insurance right
for especially for one project and the other thing is don't get bullied into doing these projects from some of these
contractors because uh we've been in the situation before to where they have us
start on one of these projects and then it isn't until we turn in a bill and then they're like well where's
your certified payroll and you know luckily it was just my brother and I at this point but it's like what what are
you talking about like this should have been communicated way in advance
so just if you think that it's one of those projects if it's on a government
installation whether it's a fort or an Air Force Base you're about a 95 percent
maybe even 100 I don't know that I've ever done a job on on a government
installation we've done the FBI headquarters we've done tons of work at
our air force base and the VA um you know most of those jobs are going
to be certified payroll so before you bid a job ask for the wage determination sheet which that's my point find out
what you're going to have to pay the people that are working for you on that job and find out how you know and I
showed you the the Department of Labor form there's actually a second sheet to
that you can just Google it and it'll come up for you but the the key here is to know what you're getting into and
then consider security it's going to take like when we're going on to an Air Force Base a lot of times
it takes half hour just for the guys to get through the gate and so make sure you're thinking through
the inefficiencies that the government brings to the table I hate to say that don't shoot me Mr government but fact is
is that there's a there they they bring in efficiencies and red tape that when
they come on to the when they're part of the job site um your production will go down I
promise you that and if you're not used to working on government jobs um depending on the core of engineers
and if they're involved or not um I can tell you that one of the things
is inspections do happen on these jobs I I honestly kind of wish this happened on
all projects but uh where we could call in for inspection uh and that we had to
get that written off as part of our our processes in flooring it would add a
level of uh professionalism that the GCS wouldn't be able to push you around you
know you're you're getting you're getting your inspections but for example we just did a set of really big
bathrooms and it had to be waterproofed everywhere and the prep had to be
inspected prior to waterproofing so we had block walls we had to grind down and
get smooth and level and so that had to be inspected prior to waterproofing once
the Corps of Engineers signed off on that then we could start our waterproofing when that's done it got
flood tested and inspected and then when that was done we could finally start installing and it took 48 Hours on both
cases to get those inspections scheduled and in so we lost two days worth of work while we were waiting for one of the
core people to come in and inspect so I don't want to scare people off I'm just trying to give you the reality of what
these jobs require so you know just take that all into account
when you're looking at doing a project like that for a you know one of the large flooring
companies or even if you're considering doing it direct with the GC and you got a good relationship and you're going to
do a job direct with the GC that's fine too just make sure that you you know
have the wage determination realize that Davis bacon and certified payroll go
hand in hand so those two terms are there are other certified payroll jobs
that are not Davis bacon but all Davis bacon jobs are certified payroll right
yep and um with some of these GCS I've talked to some women you know they have an entire
you know Department really I don't know a few people but their accounting team if if you need if you have any questions
on this you can come in and we will pretty much go break it down for you so that way we
know that you know you you're turning in something that we're going to be able to use because if you turn if you're not
keeping track of it they can also get in trouble yeah that's a good point um the fact is is it's in their best
interest for your certified payroll to be accurate and come through so most of them will work with you because
you know it holds up their payment like one small sub can hold up a
multi-million dollar payment just because their certified payroll isn't in or correct or done or whatever so
you know there it just there's more pressure obviously at that point so make
sure you're informed that's what I'm trying to get out here make sure you're informed about the processes and what is
needed um I'm I'm hoping that we're conveying the uh pertinent details but you're
going to have to continue on with whoever you're working for whether it's the GC or the flooring company to get
like we help our subs get our certified payroll done because we have to have it done which the GC has to have it done so
everybody's in This Together uh that is probably the one benefit of it
um but outside of that I would say you know consider again your wage
determination and what the per square foot for labor is and and make sure that
makes sense you know to your daily production time and how much work you think you can get
done in a day um if you're an employee installer working for a flooring company you know
we give our guys some goals to hit and things like that um
because obviously everybody has to stay profitable we got to keep the lights on and people fed and and you got to make
profit for that so um you know I think outside of that the other thing to
consider that I brought up and I think is really important you just don't think about it is the lost time I mean an hour
a day is not excessive to figure in dead time on a project like that and it's and it's not even with uh some of these
certified payroll stuff we were working at uh one of the factories over here they do baby formula
and every like couldn't have any stickers on anything no stickers on hard
hats I was like dang every other job we got to put a sticker on there for safety so go buy some new hard hats then you go
in there up this has uh some wood on it you can't bring that in there and then every tool that is in your toolbox you
have to take out and wipe down before you bring it in the job site yeah that's
yeah I mean that it's worth noting that this is really
about investigating what you're doing like understanding what you're doing
um because to your point we did a we did a MRI room where they were they
kid they weren't shutting the machine down and we had to use ceramic knives with ceramic blades we found a
ceramic hand roller we had the hand roll the whole thing uh that's all made out
of ceramic the entire piece is made out of ceramic um
so yeah there's other crazy uh job application uh things out there or
project requirements out there but um yeah knowing the project is what it
comes down to or at least knowing the requirements and that's really what this is is pointing to is like make sure
you're you're informed on a certified payroll job know where you're at and how you have to report and what you're going
to get paid um I think the best way to do it from if
you know for even a sub pay yourself a weekly amount
uh you know whatever the wage determination is above and beyond and then
um pay pay all your people and the difference is yours right I mean that's
how it works so keeping keeping um
you know I I don't see how a sub of a sub of a sub Works in this scenario and
um I'm sure some guys have figured out how to make it work but that's it's just so messy I can't imagine a GC being real
happy about getting three four different certified payrolls from one company to
do a job but um yeah that's kind of my spill today was just really based around certified
payroll and just the one piece that we didn't get to in the previous discussions and I think there's so much
government work going on it's one of the strongest sectors right now I'm not
saying it's going to continue but I'm just saying right now there's I don't know how it is up in your area but
Across the Nation from a an overall standpoint it seems to be very strong but it does some people at some of the
meetings like um through the the city and the Chamber and this um
a couple of the people in there said I only do government jobs that's like they
started out as private and then once they got into the government jobs they're like that's all I do and all my
referrals come from Strictly government jobs and it's like
that's crazy well if you get somebody who specializes in the paperwork and it's really good I
mean the the my wife does it for us at Stewart and Associates and she's
she's a machine you know um if you're really good at it there's a
good opportunity because not there's a lot of people that just say forget it I'm walking I don't want to mess with it
and so you can have some good margins on those jobs and
um and still you know employees like it like our guys love when they're getting
paid you know another 10 bucks an hour or something to do some work
um as long as you're efficient and you know what you're doing it's not a bad
business it's just you got to know um and be aware and if you are then and
you and you're willing to jump in like those people and and just stick with it um you know if you if you can make a few
more points and you don't have to get beat I mean it's certainly on a job if
you have a Stan if you have a school job on a air force or on a say on a fort you
know an army base uh or that Services the army base and then you have a school
job elsewhere you're gonna have a lot more competition elsewhere I guarantee you that so if you can get good at it
and you want to get good at it you want to invest the time and effort it takes to make sure that you're crossing your
t's and Dot in your eyes then go for it because you can make a little bit of extra money which yeah that's what she
said she said that she got into it not really knowing what what it entailed and then as soon as she got that that first
project and then um she got some you know different certifications behind her like being a woman-owned business and
stuff like that and then that just kind of turned into you know I only want to use you and yeah
we know if you can get those certifications like the small business the minority the
women owned um or stack those up uh you could you there's a lot of government jobs that
have you know 15 to 30 percent up up to 30 percent of a job
uh sometimes it and each one's a little bit different but as far as the requirements but say up to 30 percent of
the job has to be performed by minority women a disadvantaged uh company that
they say yeah if you're out there and you haven't looked into any of these certifications that's definitely something that you
should do because um you know even with us for for a while it was like why would we want to get
this sort of like minority business certification and stuff like that and it's like well they're there for a
reason right if we can use it to our advantage why not hey man amen if you if
you if there's a program out there that will benefit your company do not be too
proud to go do that excuse my French seriously I'll do it and and and
take advantage of I mean it's there someone's going to use it you might as
well there's I don't see I'm seeing it a lot outside of even the government work to where you know these private
companies want to hit a certain percentage of you know disadvantage
adversity yeah so even if you're not going to go for the government work it's it's worth a
shot just to see what else they can bring to the table yep yep I agree and and so you
um your local chamber help you with that yeah we're we're still in the process
right now so through this through the city of Grand Rapids we have what they call a micro local business Enterprise
which um you're only allowed to be in it for 10 years and you have to be
hey he's there and you have to be you know a certain size once you hit a certain dollar amount you're no longer
eligible so it's the same thing with the small uh the small business
the chamber is actually has been um they rolled out a program to where
they're paying to for minorities to get their MBE or wbe you know whatever it is
so the MBE is uh minority business Enterprise wbe is women then they have
the disadvantaged and you know there's there's multiple people
don't we don't know what you said because you're breaking up I'm lbe
just talked about that one but yeah there's a bunch of different uh
you got you know service disabled veteran indian-owned yeah and American the crazy
thing is right now when the the chamber is helping us out and we're trying to
get it but as a Mexican back in the day they wanted to
classify and put us put uh White on our birth certificates
so now I had to go back and they're asking for like my mom's father's
information it's like I don't know like how do you cut through this red tape with stuff like that I have no idea but
yeah I've never done it so I'm interesting it's interesting to listen to you talk about it and yeah so if you
look at our birth certificates it says that we're White well gentlemen we don't speak Spanish we
don't speak Spanish my little run with it I guess well um so but the process
outside of that has it been your chamber would you re you know would you uh
recommend that whoever it may be on this call or or uh consuming our content here
if they're looking to do uh minority status of some sort would you recommend
they go to the chamber and start there I I think the the chamber in general is a
great place to go I mean especially if you're doing a lot of commercial work because you're getting in with all the
builders and stuff there and which is a great place to to meet other
people right because we always talk about networking it's just like that except for it's not
in the industry it's who else can I work with around my local area so like I'll
I'll go to to events he'll go to events he'll join some groups in there they have
like CEO roundtables it's just a great place and then with
the with the with the certification stuff like the MBE they they have their their programs
uh to where they they'll help you out any questions that you have but it this
one is actually through the the city of Grand Rapids is paying for us to get
ours and they hooked up with um a different company
so they're pretty much just the bridge they're like we'll get all the information together set you up with
your own person point of contact and then they help you out so the answer the
short answer is yes chamber and don't go to it wanting to to
um explore becoming a minority-owned business of some sort whether that's
women or or uh race or if it's um service disabled veteran or what any
of those programs get with your local chamber um and and just start there I think
that's probably the best place to start it is because we we met the guy from the
city of Grand Rapids at a chamber event so great working
well it is good networking as well and hey guys sorry I'm so late but man I tell you what switching phone providers
make sure when you're doing your estimate that you calculate some of that man but um
um well we were just talking we we just went over certified payroll Davis bacon
stuff as he was on Facebook listening I was listening on Facebook the whole time
all right well that's kind of the the whole Crux of this uh this episode was
just rounding out the last piece of information that that you know we've hit
bidding and estimating pretty hard a couple of episodes and just kind of
rounded out if you know as you heard while he was on Facebook just being
aware of what you're what you're bidding and uh yes and and know how to follow
the guidelines because they will hold your money 100 guaranteed 100 certified
payroll done and you're the one that's supposed to do it you will not be paid so
um just consider all that and um yeah so
and then we got into a little bit of the of how you become certified uh you know small business or women owned or
minority owned or whatever just because it was a natural kind of uh Segway
effect because we also because we like go on tangents yeah go off on a tangent
it was a good time it was a good one if if you're gonna be you know we are talking about certified payroll so if
you want an advantage of getting some of that work and you feel like you can do that paperwork that I showed it's really
not that complicated but it it can be daunting a little bit um you might as well if you're a
minority or you're a woman you might as well take advantage of that those programs and then you can get even more
government work um and if you're comfortable doing those the certified payrolls and
all that stuff like we talked earlier I mean you can make a a good living doing
that so even if you're not going to be bidding it direct and you have those
certifications with you they the company that is going to be using you can
actually use that certification too and it accounts towards it so yeah so yeah exactly that's a great Point too uh
Daniel is like if if I'm Stuart and Associates doing a government job with
XYZ GC and I hire preferred to do the labor for
me than I get to that their status as long as it's
I can prove this their status counts to the DC's overall percentage status so me
as a flooring company having a minority uh subcontractors that are certified
minority subcontractors I should say uh can give you a bit of an advantage and
I'm just an old white guy gotta take it when you can right that's
right well that's about it for this episode guys uh it actually is shorter even
though every other time I've said that we we tend to fill up the whole hour but
um for short for me sorry again guys I'm sorry about the lack of communication you're good he's not I couldn't hang up
on him man couldn't hang up on him two and a half hours a day well I'll tell you this if if uh
if you were the only one that missed you know I'd pretty much have to shoot myself in the foot if I gave you any
great grief over it so um hey there is one thing too but that I
want to add certified payroll I do remember when Daniel and I first saw split up and went
on our own there we had an opportunity to work with a company um who all they did was a lot of government work and I remember the the
booklet that they gave me of instructions that that were required to follow was about this thick right here
and if I told you guys that going through that and just kind of skim skimming it a little bit didn't deter me
from working with them I'd be lying because once I started reading into it and and it was a foreign language I
pretty much just said nope not for me and I didn't even entertain it so
don't don't be too afraid to to involve yourself into reading the information that that is presented to you right like
I didn't take the time to go through it with a fine-tooth comb and I think if I did it might have approached it a little
bit differently it might have educated me a little bit more so well that kind of goes back to how we
are as humans and our mindset stuff I mean you're if it looks really painful
we just don't do it and you know you you end up
eventually if you end up getting through one you you kind of are like well that wasn't near as bad as I thought it was
going to be um so yeah like I said earlier I mean if you if you can do it and you feel
comfortable doing all the the paperwork by all means jump in don't let any
reluctancy drive you just get to know it I mean a lot of this is just not just
this but everything we talk about is about being teachable and being willing to learn and change
that's that's 90 of what the podcast really talks about just how can you
improve well you can't improve if you don't take some risks and change a little bit and that's the same thing
here it's it's an opportunity judge it for yourself uh and you know determine the risk
factors that we've talked about on this episode and if you feel comfortable with it dive feet first don't be scared of
the book right everything's an opportunity you just
gotta look at it that way and every opportunity is a learning moment for sure well speaking of learning
moments I hope everybody got some uh very specific information but uh I
hope everybody found some some value in this if you did please consider giving us a like subscribing to our YouTube
channel uh if you're watching us on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn or any
of the uh different you know media Outlets you know consider giving us a
thumbs up so Eduardo said that dang it's this big [Laughter]
that's funny Kevin uh Kevin said that he's stopping by in two
weeks figure he'd give us a heads up this time
we'll have the box set up for you
all right guys well without uh I guess that'll end this podcast here a
little bit early but uh I appreciate you jumping on late Jose hi there's my job
and uh thanks Daniel I appreciate you guys and and
um we'll see you guys next week and uh probably chat in between so all right
thanks Paul good one all right thanks guys see ya
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 43 - Certified Payroll
This week the guys round our their series on estimating and bidding by talking about certified payroll and how to avoid any hiccups when bidding certified payroll projects.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up
I usually say what's up flooring family I'm going to say what's up skilled professionals out there
uh welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday at 3 P.M Central
where typically Daniel Jose and myself discuss maintaining forward progress in
your flooring career so we're in our last the last part of a of
a kind of a three-part series although it's kind of listed as two uh in
estimating and bidding we've pretty much went over everything but to round it out we're going to talk
about certified payroll projects or the Davis space at bacon act and
um how you as an installer as a subcontract installer uh in particular
uh should you know some of the things you should know uh when when looking at
these types of projects and the paperwork and the requirements that are are there so
Daniel we were chatting offline you guys how do you guys approach your certified
payroll projects or David's bacon projects or do you avoid them all the all the way around we have typically
avoided them all together because uh over here in our area we're the only ones and this is where we kind of had
that little conversation right where like we're the only ones around the area that actually pay our employees
on a W-2 and uh around here it's a lot of the other guys from what I've gathered over
the years seem to think that it's okay to not pay themselves those rates since
they are the owners so there will be like a chain of a sub of a sub of a sub like
everyone on that project is typically their own business or there's just one guy on there and then I don't know how
they get away with it but no one so they all claim yourself up a sub and
and right either that or they they have a team there and it's just nothing is kept track of how
it should which is crazy because you know based on the conversation that I've had with some of these contractors
everything is like super documented so I have no idea how
they do it or what they do but um on some of the projects when my brother and I were working by ourselves
that's kind of how we did it um and the companies that we were doing the work for that's what they told us so they it
was pretty much you don't have to pay yourselves the rates just fill this out and let us know you know the
how much you were paying yourself so that way we can turn it in and that's what we were doing
but that was just you know us by ourselves so I haven't that's something that we
really haven't touched and we've seen you know with the Freedom of Information Act some of the rates that these uh
companies are going in at for prevailing wages
it's like they're going in at under normal rates and how do you even
pay these guys well first off higher rates like that
the the so let's talk about a couple of things a is
[Music] um when you're looking at a certified payroll job
you got to get the wage determination sheet first that wage termination sheet varies so
greatly between counties and jurisdictions um giving an example we got a a large
certified payroll project going on up at Fort Riley and
I think the tile on their pays uh the the wages
58 something 58 62 I believe somewhere
around there so you know if you're if you're looking at
a project and you do and you can install a hundred square foot with you by yourself in a day
and you're and you you have to and and you're gonna cost you know let's call it
fifty dollars an hour well the easy math that's you know on a eight
hour day let's call it real close to 500 bucks and your tile price per square foot is
going to have to be north of five dollars a foot if your average output's 100 square feet
for you to make any any profit outside of paying for yourself and that's not even having a helper
uh or or an apprentice so you know you got to look at these things and and
especially if you're being offered to do a certified payroll job by the square
foot and then you're going to fill out the U.S Department of Labor form which is the certified payroll form
so that's how we do it mainly is we'll have the sub whoever owns that that
subcontracting company um you know they're gonna fill out their own certified payroll forms for each
person that they paid and all the proof of payment you've seen those forms before haven't you Jose or I meant
Daniel yeah Jose was actually just right here he said that he's going to be signing in in a second so just keep a
lookout for him I was putting it in the chat but yeah we filled them out before and
let me see if I can share um Ashton if you're there let me share
let me see if I can share my screen
um
I think you just gotta go up and to participants and make me a host
[Music] s and and what you're talking about too you know that goes beyond just
the certified payroll stuff it's you can get all your rates if you break it down that way to make sure that you're going
to be profitable it's good I'd be looking I I that's a great
Point Daniel is like consider that on all your jobs but particularly when
you're talking about and the reason I say the wage determination is so important is
because the the fact is
in some areas the tile lab for example a tile journeyman tile installer is 29
dollars and in some areas it's 60 bucks I mean it varies that much yeah I think over
here for the tile guys it's I think around 56. and then and then you always have to
look at where our as a you know carpet or resilient Guy
where do you fit in because you're gonna have to go based on something else because we're not in
there yeah most times we're not in there every once in a while you'll find floor layer
on the wage determination otherwise you get lumped in with the painters or
something like that or Carpenters or something because I think over here we're ran with the Carpenters so
you gotta you gotta be careful how you're classifying yourself yeah and you got to make sure you're classifying
correctly too here's a a little tip if you're going to do a certified payroll job if your helper or your your
Apprentice is installing tile and the Corps of Engineers puts in their daily
report that this guy's a tile installer and then you turn in your certified payroll and I'll show you what that
looks like real quick what a report looks like for our audience this is can you see my screen okay
yeah I can see it yeah yeah so this is you know you got your work classification right here and your hours
worked standard and over time each day and then the rate of pay and then the gross earned and then all
your tax stuff and total deductions so this isn't
if if your core of engineer guy labels your Apprentice as a tile Setter which
is typically what they're classified as the or what the classific uh
classifications called within the certified payroll wage determination uh and not a tile finisher which is
typically you know 15 dollars less or so uh if they see them set in tile and they
report them as a tall Setter for those hours they're going to call your blood I
mean they're going to make you redo your certified payroll and pay him the difference that has actually happened to
us where we had a really good Apprentice that was set in tile alongside the
journeyman installers and they classified him as a tile Setter and we
had to go back and pay him tile Setter wages for those hours that he was actually installing
another piece of info is this is a daily work classification
uh or weekly you know you the I guess what I'm saying is this is a weekly work
classification so you could get tied into that rate of pay for a whole week so
the key here is this form is not incredibly complicated to fill out
but you can see it breaks everything down so you got to be the sub has to be
paying their employees as employees and keeping out the FICA taxes and the
withholding tax and any other deductions and then you know you've got to have
they've got to be able to track and provide um proof of all this as well so that
when you get over here you know you got your final amounts
so anyway I thought it'd be helpful just to see what a certified form looks like for those of you who have not
so typically we're going to have our our sub fill that out uh now if we're having
our in-house guys do it then our employee W2 employee installers then we're going to have our office manager
will fill this out based off of their mobile timesheets
yeah I think this is you know some some good information for the guys because a
lot of them you know when you really look at the big picture they don't even keep track of everything in like QuickBooks or anything a lot a lot of
the guys that I you know know personally that around the area their boxer
receipts and you know just putting it in a folder and giving it to uh an
accountant at the end of the year which at least they have an accountant I'll give them that yeah yeah at least they've they've taken some
steps there and there's software out there like you said QuickBooks go career does a lot of
this um you know a fair amount of the work we're going to
be even adding some more features for installers to have more financial tools at their disposal
um or seat capturing and that kind of thing where you can keep a loose set of books if you don't have a full
accounting system like uh QuickBooks but so I guess the biggest
um pieced all this that I wanted to make sure I conveyed to anybody looking at a certified payroll job is to consider
uh the the paperwork when you're you know gonna look at doing a job
you're gonna have to report and a sub of a sub of a sub of a sub the problem is
then you're stuck in with your your GC typically has insurance requirements and
not everybody's going to have you know for a big project say a five million dollar umbrella or something hell we
have a I think an eight million dollar umbrella so you got these big requirements for for jobs that
I mean a lot of Subs aren't going to pay four or five or ten thousand dollars for a year of of liability insurance right
for especially for one project and the other thing is don't get bullied into doing these projects from some of these
contractors because uh we've been in the situation before to where they have us
start on one of these projects and then it isn't until we turn in a bill and then they're like well where's
your certified payroll and you know luckily it was just my brother and I at this point but it's like what what are
you talking about like this should have been communicated way in advance
so just if you think that it's one of those projects if it's on a government
installation whether it's a fort or an Air Force Base you're about a 95 percent
maybe even 100 I don't know that I've ever done a job on on a government
installation we've done the FBI headquarters we've done tons of work at
our air force base and the VA um you know most of those jobs are going
to be certified payroll so before you bid a job ask for the wage determination sheet which that's my point find out
what you're going to have to pay the people that are working for you on that job and find out how you know and I
showed you the the Department of Labor form there's actually a second sheet to
that you can just Google it and it'll come up for you but the the key here is to know what you're getting into and
then consider security it's going to take like when we're going on to an Air Force Base a lot of times
it takes half hour just for the guys to get through the gate and so make sure you're thinking through
the inefficiencies that the government brings to the table I hate to say that don't shoot me Mr government but fact is
is that there's a there they they bring in efficiencies and red tape that when
they come on to the when they're part of the job site um your production will go down I
promise you that and if you're not used to working on government jobs um depending on the core of engineers
and if they're involved or not um I can tell you that one of the things
is inspections do happen on these jobs I I honestly kind of wish this happened on
all projects but uh where we could call in for inspection uh and that we had to
get that written off as part of our our processes in flooring it would add a
level of uh professionalism that the GCS wouldn't be able to push you around you
know you're you're getting you're getting your inspections but for example we just did a set of really big
bathrooms and it had to be waterproofed everywhere and the prep had to be
inspected prior to waterproofing so we had block walls we had to grind down and
get smooth and level and so that had to be inspected prior to waterproofing once
the Corps of Engineers signed off on that then we could start our waterproofing when that's done it got
flood tested and inspected and then when that was done we could finally start installing and it took 48 Hours on both
cases to get those inspections scheduled and in so we lost two days worth of work while we were waiting for one of the
core people to come in and inspect so I don't want to scare people off I'm just trying to give you the reality of what
these jobs require so you know just take that all into account
when you're looking at doing a project like that for a you know one of the large flooring
companies or even if you're considering doing it direct with the GC and you got a good relationship and you're going to
do a job direct with the GC that's fine too just make sure that you you know
have the wage determination realize that Davis bacon and certified payroll go
hand in hand so those two terms are there are other certified payroll jobs
that are not Davis bacon but all Davis bacon jobs are certified payroll right
yep and um with some of these GCS I've talked to some women you know they have an entire
you know Department really I don't know a few people but their accounting team if if you need if you have any questions
on this you can come in and we will pretty much go break it down for you so that way we
know that you know you you're turning in something that we're going to be able to use because if you turn if you're not
keeping track of it they can also get in trouble yeah that's a good point um the fact is is it's in their best
interest for your certified payroll to be accurate and come through so most of them will work with you because
you know it holds up their payment like one small sub can hold up a
multi-million dollar payment just because their certified payroll isn't in or correct or done or whatever so
you know there it just there's more pressure obviously at that point so make
sure you're informed that's what I'm trying to get out here make sure you're informed about the processes and what is
needed um I'm I'm hoping that we're conveying the uh pertinent details but you're
going to have to continue on with whoever you're working for whether it's the GC or the flooring company to get
like we help our subs get our certified payroll done because we have to have it done which the GC has to have it done so
everybody's in This Together uh that is probably the one benefit of it
um but outside of that I would say you know consider again your wage
determination and what the per square foot for labor is and and make sure that
makes sense you know to your daily production time and how much work you think you can get
done in a day um if you're an employee installer working for a flooring company you know
we give our guys some goals to hit and things like that um
because obviously everybody has to stay profitable we got to keep the lights on and people fed and and you got to make
profit for that so um you know I think outside of that the other thing to
consider that I brought up and I think is really important you just don't think about it is the lost time I mean an hour
a day is not excessive to figure in dead time on a project like that and it's and it's not even with uh some of these
certified payroll stuff we were working at uh one of the factories over here they do baby formula
and every like couldn't have any stickers on anything no stickers on hard
hats I was like dang every other job we got to put a sticker on there for safety so go buy some new hard hats then you go
in there up this has uh some wood on it you can't bring that in there and then every tool that is in your toolbox you
have to take out and wipe down before you bring it in the job site yeah that's
yeah I mean that it's worth noting that this is really
about investigating what you're doing like understanding what you're doing
um because to your point we did a we did a MRI room where they were they
kid they weren't shutting the machine down and we had to use ceramic knives with ceramic blades we found a
ceramic hand roller we had the hand roll the whole thing uh that's all made out
of ceramic the entire piece is made out of ceramic um
so yeah there's other crazy uh job application uh things out there or
project requirements out there but um yeah knowing the project is what it
comes down to or at least knowing the requirements and that's really what this is is pointing to is like make sure
you're you're informed on a certified payroll job know where you're at and how you have to report and what you're going
to get paid um I think the best way to do it from if
you know for even a sub pay yourself a weekly amount
uh you know whatever the wage determination is above and beyond and then
um pay pay all your people and the difference is yours right I mean that's
how it works so keeping keeping um
you know I I don't see how a sub of a sub of a sub Works in this scenario and
um I'm sure some guys have figured out how to make it work but that's it's just so messy I can't imagine a GC being real
happy about getting three four different certified payrolls from one company to
do a job but um yeah that's kind of my spill today was just really based around certified
payroll and just the one piece that we didn't get to in the previous discussions and I think there's so much
government work going on it's one of the strongest sectors right now I'm not
saying it's going to continue but I'm just saying right now there's I don't know how it is up in your area but
Across the Nation from a an overall standpoint it seems to be very strong but it does some people at some of the
meetings like um through the the city and the Chamber and this um
a couple of the people in there said I only do government jobs that's like they
started out as private and then once they got into the government jobs they're like that's all I do and all my
referrals come from Strictly government jobs and it's like
that's crazy well if you get somebody who specializes in the paperwork and it's really good I
mean the the my wife does it for us at Stewart and Associates and she's
she's a machine you know um if you're really good at it there's a
good opportunity because not there's a lot of people that just say forget it I'm walking I don't want to mess with it
and so you can have some good margins on those jobs and
um and still you know employees like it like our guys love when they're getting
paid you know another 10 bucks an hour or something to do some work
um as long as you're efficient and you know what you're doing it's not a bad
business it's just you got to know um and be aware and if you are then and
you and you're willing to jump in like those people and and just stick with it um you know if you if you can make a few
more points and you don't have to get beat I mean it's certainly on a job if
you have a Stan if you have a school job on a air force or on a say on a fort you
know an army base uh or that Services the army base and then you have a school
job elsewhere you're gonna have a lot more competition elsewhere I guarantee you that so if you can get good at it
and you want to get good at it you want to invest the time and effort it takes to make sure that you're crossing your
t's and Dot in your eyes then go for it because you can make a little bit of extra money which yeah that's what she
said she said that she got into it not really knowing what what it entailed and then as soon as she got that that first
project and then um she got some you know different certifications behind her like being a woman-owned business and
stuff like that and then that just kind of turned into you know I only want to use you and yeah
we know if you can get those certifications like the small business the minority the
women owned um or stack those up uh you could you there's a lot of government jobs that
have you know 15 to 30 percent up up to 30 percent of a job
uh sometimes it and each one's a little bit different but as far as the requirements but say up to 30 percent of
the job has to be performed by minority women a disadvantaged uh company that
they say yeah if you're out there and you haven't looked into any of these certifications that's definitely something that you
should do because um you know even with us for for a while it was like why would we want to get
this sort of like minority business certification and stuff like that and it's like well they're there for a
reason right if we can use it to our advantage why not hey man amen if you if
you if there's a program out there that will benefit your company do not be too
proud to go do that excuse my French seriously I'll do it and and and
take advantage of I mean it's there someone's going to use it you might as
well there's I don't see I'm seeing it a lot outside of even the government work to where you know these private
companies want to hit a certain percentage of you know disadvantage
adversity yeah so even if you're not going to go for the government work it's it's worth a
shot just to see what else they can bring to the table yep yep I agree and and so you
um your local chamber help you with that yeah we're we're still in the process
right now so through this through the city of Grand Rapids we have what they call a micro local business Enterprise
which um you're only allowed to be in it for 10 years and you have to be
hey he's there and you have to be you know a certain size once you hit a certain dollar amount you're no longer
eligible so it's the same thing with the small uh the small business
the chamber is actually has been um they rolled out a program to where
they're paying to for minorities to get their MBE or wbe you know whatever it is
so the MBE is uh minority business Enterprise wbe is women then they have
the disadvantaged and you know there's there's multiple people
don't we don't know what you said because you're breaking up I'm lbe
just talked about that one but yeah there's a bunch of different uh
you got you know service disabled veteran indian-owned yeah and American the crazy
thing is right now when the the chamber is helping us out and we're trying to
get it but as a Mexican back in the day they wanted to
classify and put us put uh White on our birth certificates
so now I had to go back and they're asking for like my mom's father's
information it's like I don't know like how do you cut through this red tape with stuff like that I have no idea but
yeah I've never done it so I'm interesting it's interesting to listen to you talk about it and yeah so if you
look at our birth certificates it says that we're White well gentlemen we don't speak Spanish we
don't speak Spanish my little run with it I guess well um so but the process
outside of that has it been your chamber would you re you know would you uh
recommend that whoever it may be on this call or or uh consuming our content here
if they're looking to do uh minority status of some sort would you recommend
they go to the chamber and start there I I think the the chamber in general is a
great place to go I mean especially if you're doing a lot of commercial work because you're getting in with all the
builders and stuff there and which is a great place to to meet other
people right because we always talk about networking it's just like that except for it's not
in the industry it's who else can I work with around my local area so like I'll
I'll go to to events he'll go to events he'll join some groups in there they have
like CEO roundtables it's just a great place and then with
the with the with the certification stuff like the MBE they they have their their programs
uh to where they they'll help you out any questions that you have but it this
one is actually through the the city of Grand Rapids is paying for us to get
ours and they hooked up with um a different company
so they're pretty much just the bridge they're like we'll get all the information together set you up with
your own person point of contact and then they help you out so the answer the
short answer is yes chamber and don't go to it wanting to to
um explore becoming a minority-owned business of some sort whether that's
women or or uh race or if it's um service disabled veteran or what any
of those programs get with your local chamber um and and just start there I think
that's probably the best place to start it is because we we met the guy from the
city of Grand Rapids at a chamber event so great working
well it is good networking as well and hey guys sorry I'm so late but man I tell you what switching phone providers
make sure when you're doing your estimate that you calculate some of that man but um
um well we were just talking we we just went over certified payroll Davis bacon
stuff as he was on Facebook listening I was listening on Facebook the whole time
all right well that's kind of the the whole Crux of this uh this episode was
just rounding out the last piece of information that that you know we've hit
bidding and estimating pretty hard a couple of episodes and just kind of
rounded out if you know as you heard while he was on Facebook just being
aware of what you're what you're bidding and uh yes and and know how to follow
the guidelines because they will hold your money 100 guaranteed 100 certified
payroll done and you're the one that's supposed to do it you will not be paid so
um just consider all that and um yeah so
and then we got into a little bit of the of how you become certified uh you know small business or women owned or
minority owned or whatever just because it was a natural kind of uh Segway
effect because we also because we like go on tangents yeah go off on a tangent
it was a good time it was a good one if if you're gonna be you know we are talking about certified payroll so if
you want an advantage of getting some of that work and you feel like you can do that paperwork that I showed it's really
not that complicated but it it can be daunting a little bit um you might as well if you're a
minority or you're a woman you might as well take advantage of that those programs and then you can get even more
government work um and if you're comfortable doing those the certified payrolls and
all that stuff like we talked earlier I mean you can make a a good living doing
that so even if you're not going to be bidding it direct and you have those
certifications with you they the company that is going to be using you can
actually use that certification too and it accounts towards it so yeah so yeah exactly that's a great Point too uh
Daniel is like if if I'm Stuart and Associates doing a government job with
XYZ GC and I hire preferred to do the labor for
me than I get to that their status as long as it's
I can prove this their status counts to the DC's overall percentage status so me
as a flooring company having a minority uh subcontractors that are certified
minority subcontractors I should say uh can give you a bit of an advantage and
I'm just an old white guy gotta take it when you can right that's
right well that's about it for this episode guys uh it actually is shorter even
though every other time I've said that we we tend to fill up the whole hour but
um for short for me sorry again guys I'm sorry about the lack of communication you're good he's not I couldn't hang up
on him man couldn't hang up on him two and a half hours a day well I'll tell you this if if uh
if you were the only one that missed you know I'd pretty much have to shoot myself in the foot if I gave you any
great grief over it so um hey there is one thing too but that I
want to add certified payroll I do remember when Daniel and I first saw split up and went
on our own there we had an opportunity to work with a company um who all they did was a lot of government work and I remember the the
booklet that they gave me of instructions that that were required to follow was about this thick right here
and if I told you guys that going through that and just kind of skim skimming it a little bit didn't deter me
from working with them I'd be lying because once I started reading into it and and it was a foreign language I
pretty much just said nope not for me and I didn't even entertain it so
don't don't be too afraid to to involve yourself into reading the information that that is presented to you right like
I didn't take the time to go through it with a fine-tooth comb and I think if I did it might have approached it a little
bit differently it might have educated me a little bit more so well that kind of goes back to how we
are as humans and our mindset stuff I mean you're if it looks really painful
we just don't do it and you know you you end up
eventually if you end up getting through one you you kind of are like well that wasn't near as bad as I thought it was
going to be um so yeah like I said earlier I mean if you if you can do it and you feel
comfortable doing all the the paperwork by all means jump in don't let any
reluctancy drive you just get to know it I mean a lot of this is just not just
this but everything we talk about is about being teachable and being willing to learn and change
that's that's 90 of what the podcast really talks about just how can you
improve well you can't improve if you don't take some risks and change a little bit and that's the same thing
here it's it's an opportunity judge it for yourself uh and you know determine the risk
factors that we've talked about on this episode and if you feel comfortable with it dive feet first don't be scared of
the book right everything's an opportunity you just
gotta look at it that way and every opportunity is a learning moment for sure well speaking of learning
moments I hope everybody got some uh very specific information but uh I
hope everybody found some some value in this if you did please consider giving us a like subscribing to our YouTube
channel uh if you're watching us on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn or any
of the uh different you know media Outlets you know consider giving us a
thumbs up so Eduardo said that dang it's this big [Laughter]
that's funny Kevin uh Kevin said that he's stopping by in two
weeks figure he'd give us a heads up this time
we'll have the box set up for you
all right guys well without uh I guess that'll end this podcast here a
little bit early but uh I appreciate you jumping on late Jose hi there's my job
and uh thanks Daniel I appreciate you guys and and
um we'll see you guys next week and uh probably chat in between so all right
thanks Paul good one all right thanks guys see ya
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 42 - Bidding 101
This week on The Huddle the guys give the ins and outs of bidding, best practices, and mistakes to avoid.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family
welcome to the huddle we're here every Tuesday at 3 P.M Central to discuss
maintaining forward progress in your flooring career uh pretty much any trade uh career
really but um since we're all in flooring we that's where we live uh this week
we're going to be talking about yeah that's what it's about uh we're gonna be talking about bidding
uh if you'll remember a couple of weeks ago we were discussing estimating best
practices and although they can be very similar we kind of look at estimating
and bidding uh kind of in two very connected silos so
the bidding to me is more of what you deliver to your customer your
estimating's in-house you take all that data and you create a an actual proposal
so some of the best practices on delivery of proposals to General Contractors and as well as end users or
maybe even your um you know a residential end user
um I'll just kick it off with a couple of things uh one is
when you're sending when we're sending out proposals to our general contractors we try to have consistency from a uh an
image and and data delivery standpoint to the GC so our our bid proposal forms
are all the same they're written in a PDF format so that our our uh the
different estimators or project Executives sending out bids can't go off the rails too far so that the format of
The Proposal is always the same it always has
um you know our project notes our job specific uh
exclusions and then our standard exclusions that apply to almost all of our projects
the difference between bidding to a general contractor or bidding to an end user is typically with a general
contractor we're bidding off a set of plans and specs so we'll state that we're bidding per plans and
specifications dated this date and these are the Scopes we're bidding with from
this drawing yeah this sheet this date
um we recognize any addendums that we've gotten uh prior to bid which is
important because we've had plenty of times not be delivered in an addendum and it did affect our scope and we had
to revise our our bid and um
you know the the GC that receives those bids knowing that I did not recognize a
particular addendum that had come out uh he knew that he needed to let me know get me the addendum I was able to revise
the bid before you know the bid uh time
um but with end users I typically go deeper and give them an actual scope of
work and I'll build that scope of work out telling them every single more
detail on every single item that I have figured so that's kind of how I do it
what about you guys how how's your um how's that landscape look for you guys
you probably should have let us go first pause you didn't have to lay it all out like that now we're going to go and say oh we just get crayons and colored
pencils and drama pictures well something something's going right I
mean uh you know Daniel's in Las Vegas with a a gold wall behind him so
you know it's all about perception right it's all about perception that's why he's doing that
uh you know we're still we're still very much in the in the learning process of the like uh I think from uh starting out
getting a lot of practice in the labor only and then realizing how many details
were actually left out when we were awarded the project when we helped bid on it helped us kind of structure our
own process uh so to speak um now we do have uh like I said there before
we started we don't have like an identical template that we all work off of very I mean they're all similar
because they come from the same program but uh the conversation we just had prior to maybe made me realize that
maybe we should have an identical checklist so to speak with everything like that but um
well that's what this thing's about a lot of times I yeah you know frankly we we we're friends and we talk on the
phone but at the end of the day these I mean we learn from each other you guys
taught me stuff and I've I've hopefully brought value to you guys as well and
that's what I think this is about from my audience as well as us together here there's plenty of ways that you can do
it right because everyone has their own way and typically when we're doing it we're um like that when we were talking
about estimating measure square that's the program we use so uh when we're building out our
you're doing our takeoffs and stuff and adding products in there when once we submit the bid it's all line items so
you get all your materials and all your labor line items 100 there with us
already but um depending on who you're submitting the bid to we won't
you know give them the price for every single line item is going to be this is what's included
this is the then after that it's we explain you know this is the scope this
is what's excluded and then right at the the bottom we always say
like the biggest thing is one prep is cosmetic only
and two moisture testing should be done by a third party not us can you can you uh go in you just uh
brought something up there that's really intriguing to me when you say cosmetic is that understood
by the clients um so because I think that's a great way to
say it and we we put like this plus plus or mine you know we try to be like small
cracks and and uh variations and it within the eighth inch excluding skim
coating I mean it's all this stuff that you gotta say yeah cosmetic is a really kind of encompassing term to use I think
because and I think that's we got that from um William Thornton from Target Sports and that's what you know talk to
him on the phone my brother talked to him on the phone a few times and it's like that's one of the one of the things he said he said including
cosmetic only because anytime something structural happens oh this concrete is
chipping up well I don't do the concrete I don't do anything structural I'm just
making the the top coat pretty so that way it can accept flooring and when you when what would you guys
not do in part of that cosmetic flooring let's say at a saw joint you have a half
inch lift from one side it cracked the concrete did was supposed to do and
cracked out the saw joint and then lifted and you got a quarter inch or
let's say a half inch difference between one side of this all joint the other
I think that all depends on uh how we bit it too right because
sometimes we'll include in there that um you know like like grinding or
something like grinding um or you know we'd like to go walk the
job first so we'll say we you know we'll put in there this and we'll mark it on the print too and we'll say you know
this cut joint was was Peak so it includes grinding on this cut joint but
um especially when you're bidding and you're going in blind and you can't really see anything
um like say new construction you get the plans before anything is even going up
and then you walk in there and the the construction of the concrete you know they put in a bunch of additives you
walk in there in every cut joint is peaked up right so um what we do is you know we we assess
that after the fact and since they already know that it's cosmetic only and if it's
really if it's something like that you have to look at the the science
behind the concrete and explain to them kind of all right we can grind this down
but after we do that and we patch it and we put resilient floor on it because you
know a lot of lbts cheap vinyls it could the the moisture in the
concrete could you know equal equalize and then this could essentially create
a debit or or something we kind of explain all that to them
and it's like does it mess with the structure still I don't necessarily think so unless you're
like Drilling and putting in like spray foam underneath it trying to make it not move but
we just have to be really thorough with uh with explaining to them but that's
the thing is once you read some of these bid specs they are not thorough in their explanations either yeah
exclusions and things like that because it's not perfectly clear you got to draw
the line somewhere and even on you know as you use the term uh cosmetic
you know basically the way we look at it is we'll do all your cracks and saw
joints and small holes but then you get into a situation where
you get to a job it's to say it's new concrete
and get to a job and it's getting VCT down hallways and it's chattered
everywhere just complete chatter it needs a grind and skim we would not do
that as part of our project that would be a change order right you guys approach it the same way
we have we I think that's where we are yes
yes we are starting to so so the problem that that we're having is and that we've had in the beginning is
that we approach everything as we install it right like even if you were to look at some of our proposals or our
beds like they're in systematic order like we have all the material at top and the material is in sequential order from
install from start to finish and same thing with with all the wine items you
know we start with the removal and I work all the way down until the finished product right because I'm doing the job in my head and that's I'm making sure
I'm not missing anything um so we were very much all inclusive in
100 of our bids in the beginning and started realizing that man we just we're
just getting our we're getting our asses handed to us on this how are these like why are they coming in so low and then
um through the the Freedom of Information Act you can actually have access to some of the the bibs that
you've lost uh
so we started looking at that and then we start like uh deconstructing our proposal and seeing where what was left
out and how it left out and uh unfortunately for us uh we've been
around for a long time not just as preferred Florence but we've been around long enough where people are
people are willing to answer questions right like everybody excludes everything they just
exclude it and say not not in not included or this is the executed from proposal they have a whole list of
things and it's like oh so that's where the Flopper
the contractor or the end user bridge is looking for the bottom number and they
see that one that one number that's all they're looking at doesn't matter if you have one sheet or a thousand sheets they just look at that last number it's like
finalist finalist finalists um so we're learning that but fortunately for us some guys say
let's go look at their line and let's see why they're they're a little bit more unless you know because I know that
they're including a lot they look at it differently
um I would say um you know we try to do it as Fair as you
can but you can only bid if you're bidding off a set of planes and specs you can only bid what the documents are
telling you you start digging in and using your your Spidey senses and
fluorine too deep and you you're gonna get thrown out unless you give them a
reason here's a little trick we use um like if there's a reason in the
documents that we're gonna we feel like somebody may not notice something or if
it's in a really obscure spot in the plans that we think it's going to make
us High we put that like specifically including this thing whatever it is
let's call it uh you know some some uh moisture mitigation but it's not in its
own spec and it's only listed on a detail in the drawing or something and I want a job in Ponca City a 380 000 job
over this and it was because I specifically stated
that I have moisture mitigation figured underneath all flooring as stated on
this sheet detailed this and that got and the value of that was a
hundred and twenty thousand dollars so yeah I had it in my bid but I also
told them the value of that and that it was included in My overall number
that made them make phone calls and and no one else included it right correct
so it went back out for rebid and I ended up winning that job
so you can use something like that to go ahead and add it one thing I wouldn't do
this just it's not a trick it just I don't send out an RFI on it if I feel
like I have something like that that's going to make a GC question someone else's low bid versus mine
and I got a a note that I can put in there that'll make them think oh my God we got to go with them they they read
everything this is obviously in the drawings because he listed the sheet in
the detail number and everything and in last minute I've been in the war
rooms as they call them of gc's plenty of times they are scrambling
and if you can give them a big note stating a lot of times they'll go with
your number because even though you're high because they know you have everything figured and especially if
you're telling them where you've seen that in the documents so that's right I like that
on RFI because I don't want them to go then go to an RFI send it out for all
bidders to not find what I found and you know use that I've also you know I'm
kind of spilling the beans here but I've also found notes in specs particularly
in the tile spec and they'll say you know
um for example they'll say you know waterproofing membrane or something or they'll say epoxy grout per uh tcna 118
blah blah blah whatever I'll go look that up and see if there's a discrepancy between the tcna book guideline that
they're referencing and what they're telling me to do and if there is a
discrepancy particularly if it's in my favor uh I will note that and say we're going
for tcna guidelines and you're pretty safe in that manner in
doing that and you also then end up creating a scenario where the you you
can get a competitive advantage over your uh competition
just by you know kind of digging in a little deeper and finding the the the method that works best
um so you're saying a little bit of knowledge about the product that and some extensive training prior to doing
the estimating that it actually benefit your bidding uh opportunities wow who
would have thought well not only that and if he ends up losing that and someone else wins it and it's not for the tcna and then that job ends up
getting messed up they're gonna end up losing a bunch more money anyways yeah
on top of that you know if you're going per tcna
guidelines which a lot of times that's where it's found that's where your advantage will be found because they
want you to install per industry standards regardless of whether an architect tells you to do most times
because if they're telling you to go outside the industry standard then they can start to get scary close to avoiding
a warranty but so if you're laying on the side of Industry standard and it's going to give you the advantage because
you took the time to go into your tcna handbook and actually look into it and
and discover that you can create an advantage for yourself I like the way you said that you um you separated that
number and actually put it in there you know this is the cost of the mitigation because I talked to on an electrical
engineer um he's actually my son's uh baseball coach and he said that when they go out
to bids especially when it's someone you know they're training someone new they say you have to ask these questions to
make sure all these other people are going to be including this stuff because we're not gonna not include it so we
need to make sure that either they're going to include it or the GC knows that
they they're supposed to include it but they didn't on their bid that way it's a Level Playing Field for them but I can
kind of see it both ways to where it's an advantage for you if you do and an advantage if you don't
yeah either way you're in a better situation than not doing anything obviously but
um you know if you if you just if you're Reliant uh on them getting an RFI and
then or sending an RFI and then getting an addendum now you you have leveled the playing field you're back on par with
everybody what I did was it also makes me come off or us come off more of an
expert like because we did this because we found this and this is here and you
you know when you note it like that I'm giving them the amount to be ducked off my overall bid if they want to get
Apples to Apples so I'm still giving them the mechanism to get there if they need to but um you know in the yeah I
like the heat of the battle it doesn't it doesn't always happen they're just like use that number because
that it's it's got to be right and sometimes at the same time they'll even go check but
I have a question for you so like um so it's kind of like a little State and Then followed by a question
um the statement that I'm gonna make is that essentially when you're doing that and you're breaking it out and you're
providing the information to the contractors you're showing them that you have their their client or the end
user's best interest uh at play there and uh I guess my question is would be
it and sorry about sound green or or a little naiva
when they have these final meetings and they're going over going over these uh final dollar amounts do you think that
some of this information is actually shared with the end user or the the guy
who's paying bills at the end of the day for this whole thing or is this uh they've already got their budget and their approval and they're not sharing
anything as long as they're within the the dollar amount or those parameters it depends on the end user but there's a
lot of times they get down to the nitty-gritty with the end user and have to explain to them why we use this guy
or why we use that guy and a lot of times if you've positioned yourself as the expert
you using this example uh which this was a a public safety center down in Ponca
City uh you know they they had to go back and re-bid the thing and they had to go show the owner why now as a
construction manager this bid has to be redone and then we got to re-bit it again and
we won it but we would have not won the job had that note been on there they would have gave the job to the other
crew would have been done I mean that's the thing too is
especially when you have it separated it can be to the points where this is how much it's going to cost for this but
after the moisture readings come back if you don't need it then you just take that line item right out of it yep
yeah I like that I like that that's a good piece of information qualifying your bid is
and and making it clear how you how what you have figured and why
um sometimes it'll kick you out but we find more often than not you'll find
these little nuggets in in the jobs where I mean we've had it from
um just bathroom elevations calling for Schluter metal but then the finished schedule column for bullnose something
that simple we find out what's the cheapest one and that's what we're gonna figure
this spot is just because both are both are there you know which way do you go
if if all things equal like it's a good set of elevations and a good finish schedule
I mean which one do you trust so we'll find out which one's the cheapest and submit on that
and then once you figure once they figure out oh no we wanted this oh we already won so this is again this is the
change order for this then correct yeah and and I know the change orders get a
bad they get a bad rap they do it a lot of the time it's out of our control well and I'm not against
them I don't think they're a bad thing all the time I mean the bottom line is the architects
love you guys if you're on this call but you know they get paid six percent typically of a project so on a 10
million dollar job they're not doing too bad to create a good set of bid documents and then manage that process
through right with a good GC to manage the process through part is basically
them uh approving the general contractor's application for payments for the owner I mean at some point the
GC is doing most of the management but in the early days doing the homework and
really getting those plans and specs done that's what they're expected to do and so all you can do is read off of
those and a lot of times your expertise is going to tell you something shouldn't
be done that way that's when I would say if you feel that way clearly note it and
make sure that you know sometimes we'll even give the cost for example we did a
bunch of uh uh elevated bathroom shower floors
well it the specs were so terrible uh the drawings were not great it showed
that it was depressed and so we figured mud setting had nothing to say about waterproofing
or what type of it had a plumbing pan liner the rubberized Plumbing pan liners
that are rubber sheet which are terrible for a commercial depressed floor
especially when you're only mud packing say two and a half three inches you need a liquid applied
um and then there are certain uh waterproofing membranes that
um like Mapei hpg can be used as a plumbing pan liner if you do it per
their instructions all that being said I knew that our our number that process is
way more expensive than somebody taking a piece of plastic or a piece of rubber sheet and laying it in and a lot of
times the the plumbers do that so the flooring guys don't even do that part A
lot of times on jobs putting the actual pan liner in it'll go down when they put their drain in and then you hope it
doesn't get a hole in it which is another reason never to use them if you're on this call I'd say try to
switch those things out for liquid pan liners anytime you can but I knew my bid
was going to be higher and I said perspect is my bear is my bid here is what's
really recommended by tcna please add twenty seven thousand dollars they accepted my base bid and we ended
up change ordering to that number that's awesome
putting details in the room finished schedule does that ensure being seen and
followed I think that just depends on how thorough someone's going to be with
reading through the paperwork and then actually going through and then like you said
checking out the discrepancies this shouldn't be done that way and it's either like you said you go on
there and say this is the base bid how you're specking it this is what should be added to get it you know to spec per
these standards and either that or submit an RFI right
yeah a lot of times I'll put in what I like tiled the most in this because there's the most variances here
um yeah and you got a handbook that is recognized by everyone right the tcna
guidelines right that's been around forever we don't really have something that strong in resilient or in carpet
that holds its weight as much as the tcna guidelines do the tcna handbook
so a lot of times if they'll reference something in in
um if they don't reference anything like this job I was telling you about as a multi-family with you know uh recess
slash student housing actually with recess slabs for the showers they didn't
put nothing in there so I referenced the tcna guideline even if I lose the job
I'm kind of trying to help them out and I'm I'm positioning our company as the experts I
mean we're we're using the industry standard and it shows that we're you know we at least open that book and uh
consider it when we're bidding love that you just uh
dotting your eyes and crossing your teeth and making swear of that you know you know something you just made me think about
too is uh and not a lot of good you're too far off track but if we have to dissect these plans and
and all of their terms and go by their Master contract why are they not
dissecting our our bits right like like are they it almost I got six months to
build the drawings in about 60 minutes to get the bids in because people you know Subs none of us send our bids in
super early to GCS because you don't want them shocked and you don't want them to call their buddy or and and even
I've had it happen where even when I had a good company that I've done a ton of business with some PM from another
company comes and joins their company and now he's in charge of running this bid and he's friends with someone else
and picks up the phone and lets him know so you know they're getting bids in up
to the last 15 minutes of the job typically if a bid is due at two two o'clock I'm submitting at 155. yeah like
you're submitting within 10 15 minutes of the project because you don't want to
get shopped do all that work for nothing and so they don't have time unless you bold something out really big and even
even the bigger GCS who have like they'll have an estimator that just handles finishes and then an estimator
that just handles the structural and then an estimator that just handles you know mechanical and electrical or
something of that nature you know I still think best practice is to make
it clear what you're bidding and then also clear what you're not bidding
in some cases um so it just depends on the bid
obviously you can go through a thousand different scenarios but the the real key is what can you put on that bed that gives
you a strategic advantage right right and how can you approach it
it's a competition and like I said earlier change orders are not the demon that everybody makes them out to be
they're necessary as part of the construction process and the better that
the architect is typically the better that the the the less amount
of change orders you're going to get I mean the better the documents are the least questions there are during bedtime
and you're going to get a more you know accurate bid from all parties but
sometimes that's not possible either and sometimes the owner doesn't want to pay the architect as much money as it would
take to you know kind of take it past the finish line and so the architect has
to kind of pull back in some ways on some of the services they provide and
that's when you get kind of a crappy set of drawings um so anyway it's it's about kind of
trying to find the Nugget that at least this part of the discussion has been about like where's the Nuggets
that you can either expose or take advantage of that give you the best possibility of winning the job as long
as you approach that in an ethical Manner and you're not trying to like clearly cheat somebody
but the fact is if you're new using your knowledge to give yourself an advantage that's an earned advantage right and not
only that is knowing your reps to especially when you know they're giving you free reign for like value
engineering or something like that or and it's really common these days especially because you just can't find
some of these products or they're 60 90 days out when after the bid is one they're like we're starting next week
like when can you get in so we had a project that was like that when you know they expect the carpet it was super
expensive the it wasn't going to get there until like two months after they wanted to be
done with the project and I was like look we can go with this other product it's the same color scheme
it's the same face weight it's going to perform the exact same and it's going to save the client 8 500.
it's like not all change orders are bad either sometimes you know you give them money back and the crazy thing is with
that is by doing that sometimes your margins actually go up because it's a it's a less expensive product and you
have a lot more wiggle room there to to work with so your margins can go up a little bit even
though you're selling uh a less expensive product
yeah I mean at the end of the day when you're you
know you're kind of talking about price per effort so you got to make more
margin on lower end Goods than you do than you have to on a higher and good that's how we look at things and so if
we have a 65 yard carpet we're not going to bid that at the same margin as a ten dollar yard carpet
you know um the effort doesn't change so you need to make sure your margins are covering
all your overhead costs unless you get into your estimating practices of
figuring overhead and approximate hours of overhead and all this management fee
and building that all out we do not we look at it like this is our raw our heavy costs and we're going to mark up
this line item this much this line item this much and on on through and
um and then we produce our bid off of that so as we were talking here you know
presenting of the bid is really what this is all about give yourself a reason to be
looked at right it's kind of like the resume thing I was taught a long time ago like have your bid form
a professional looking bit for me your guyses sounds like it's a professional bit form you want it to be something
that um you know stands out a bit and then B
is just make sure that you're uh and also recognizable like if you guys are
the firm I've talked to you know plenty of people you guys up there have a great reputation in Michigan so when somebody
sees your form with your logo in the same spot it's the same they get the your their their brain recognizes it and
they at least want to look at your number because it goes back to the The Branding episode that we talked about
right you gotta stay on brand all the time yep once your brand is recognizable
then you know that automatically makes people think oh I know who that is let's take a
look at that one yeah pull your bed up and take it take a look
at it even a second look sometimes and exactly and if you give them a
reason then to consider it which is when if you find an advantage you list it you
say why you bid it this way um then
it get it makes them just think for a second you know in that heated moment they have to think do I go with this
number with these guys who always give me good solid numbers
but they're five thousand dollars higher but they also said this thing that
they're looking at is worth three thousand eight hundred bucks so really
it's twelve hundred dollars you know now they're considering you have to you're stopping Them In the Heat of the fire to
consider something and brand is a big part of that Daniel
like you said yeah well you want them to you want them to
depending on what it is right the whole branding a portion of it like uh it's if
they're looking at ours they're like oh well this is this price and like oh these ones are like this like
all right what are they missing like I know that this project this is they're bidding this because this is their
strengths this is what they do this is what they're known known for um and then over here is uh they're not
really known for that but but so now they're missing something um and
it's not a bad thing to have them look at it like that and and hopefully they look at every project like that well
they haven't like that probably not but that's okay um well like I said it is a competition
to some extent I'll give a plug too I won't say the name but we have a
competitor that only does tile and man when they are good they're
really good they got they do good installation they're they're a good company
um when they're bidding certain large top when certain large tile jobs are Bid
we're it's tough to beat them like they have that kind of nailed down
um we get our fair share but it's just on these really particular tile type
projects uh they're just known for doing it the way that it needs to be done so
I've gotten I've lost a job or two to them even when I was low
yeah and that's not because I suck it's just because they've done that good
so kudos to them you've heard that they've earned that then that's what it is we've been in that position too to
where you know we're considered the experts in you know what we do so and
you know when you're going through the post bids and stuff though straight up tell you they're like you guys weren't the low bid but we sell them as as you
know yes you can go with them but these are the potential issues that you might be if you go with these guys it's pretty
much a hands-off approach as soon as they get on the the project you know exact everything is going to go and be
installed exactly how it should be yeah yeah and you know when you're I mean we all have our deals where we
you know get chose over uh we're not always low uh that's for sure a lot of times but
it's a service on the back side that you're talking about or the known for expertise but it's just an example how
it's not just possible for one company I mean I have a company here that we battle with on
those jobs that like I said you know they they'll get the nod on the big big tile jobs that are really complex you
know Olympic-sized pools that kind of stuff you know steam rooms off of it and and
saunas and showers and and onto a pulled deck and down into the pool and I mean
we've done auditoriums for or natatoriums before but a lot of them those guys are gonna get so anyway I'm
just showing you that The Branding is a big piece of your bidding being considered during midday and uh so
anybody new out there uh in the audience that has you know
um wondered why some companies maybe win a lot of work and why others don't part of
it's The Branding and so I would you know take advice from a previous episode I wish I knew that episode number but we
talked about branding and the importance of that in pretty good detail
yes it's uh it's not who you know but it's who knows you um and let's become
very uh very helpful over the last couple years for for us uh to kind of shift gears and
have that different mindset um but also anybody out there who's got other ideas
on some of that and other angles like let us know like we're still learning too man like we're just we're just sharing what we
what we know now and what works for us now but man like I'm open I'd like to learn a lot more
yeah and and I think one of the things that's really
been kind of special about this podcast is we that's the attitude of the podcast
like we want to learn too and we would love more interaction live on the
podcast thank you for everybody who comments and likes our stuff on oh yeah 100 media networks but uh we'd love for
you to come on and listen to us and chime in with some q a uh you know be
heard and um it can it can make the podcast bring people sometimes bring up
different questions than than what we can think of in our in our uh you know
In the Heat of the Moment here but so I encourage you this is my plug to like and subscribers if on our uh
YouTube if that's where you're consuming it or if you're catching out one of our social channels or one of preferred
flooring social channels please give it a thumbs up you know drop a comment in
uh maybe you agreed with some of this maybe you didn't maybe you disagreed and you could do something right
conversation so maybe you have the most bomb uh bid form out there that nobody
knows about and you're willing to share some of that information uh with the industry right and you just you just had
that you're sitting on it is burning a hole in your pocket you need to share it and you just give us a call and help us
out man like well we'll share your brand you share some information come on now let's
scratch each other's backs man like we're all in this together to some extent right
yeah well there there is a um element of of uh all of us flooring
guys trying to band together and I I think you see that when you go to the conferences you know I just got back
from two pretty much back to back from views Alliance which I'm a fuse member
and in our area and then uh fcica and they
were both great a lot of a lot of great learning opportunities but that's also
where you can do some of these um Discovery discussions with other flooring companies who are more than
happy to help you so all right guys anything closing out
on kind of bidding post kind of getting your quantities and estimates from
whether you again just as a refresher you can Outsource this thing now there's very professional companies doing it
um one in the case quantify was
and went through a lot of stuff I think that was a really I hope a lot of people have watched that
because that's that was a really good episode I think and I think if you pair that with this you'll kind of get the
big Concepts on how to best estimate and then um
producer proposal to your client yeah I think you know just closing out
it's uh take nuggets from everyone that you talk to just like we did and
include those in your inclusions and exclusions because like I said
everyone's going to want you if they don't want you to do moisture testing you got to let them know that it still
needs to be done whether it's in the documents or not because you're liable
as soon as you start installing if you don't ask for you or anything
that's you you just bought that if anything happens in most cases yeah and the reason that
is just to build on that for a quick second is because it may not specifically say moisture testing but
what is it going to say is that like there's language typically in a set of specs to say you know once you start
installing except is indication of acceptance acceptance yep right so
there's there's these little Clauses everywhere throughout the documents that'll end up catching
you anyway so take Daniel's advice yeah and the other one is um the the cause the floor prep
being only cosmetic because you know once you read over the specs and everything and know your standards
because they'll they'll stay in there it sometimes it doesn't say anything it just says floor prep to ASTM f710
standards and then you're automatically required to know that so yeah do some
research yeah know that
prep is cosmetic only that document is probably the closest thing that the resilient side has that I
think it's leaned on a lot and all it is that's it a lot
um I guess I guess for me is if I were sharing advice of anybody I would say
don't be afraid to ask questions even if you have to question yourself right like
if you miss it and you submit it man you missed it and you submitted it and you're like uh don't rush through it if
you don't if you don't have enough time to dedicate to doing a large bid
um after the estimate is done then just don't try to rush it just say you know what
call that time as learning experiences and or experience period and move on to the
next one man like there's no sense in Russia at least until yeah yeah well I mean there's
going to be sometimes you stretch that out we certainly skirt the line sometimes on
you know should we bid this or should we not and maybe walk in a way
um but once you've been doing it long enough you can make some educated guesses uh I wouldn't
I I fully recommend going in with full knowledge but every once in a while
especially on branded jobs where you've done 30 of those hotels in the last five
years or something and you got some questions you can go off of your experience and say okay I'm pretty sure
this is gonna how is how it's gonna be and go ahead in that case then and do what I was talking about earlier put it
on your bid form you figured it this way because there was no documentation telling you
and so you figured it this way so we do have a question from LinkedIn right here from Eric he says estimating and
quantifying materials are not equal any thoughts on why our industry by and
large has sales people handling the pricing of jobs other trades and gdc's rely on estimators to put numbers
together but in the flooring world this seems like an estimated role ends with the takeoff
yeah I that's a tough one I know plenty of
companies have sales people we all of our bids and our company is produced
with either project managers or estimators and then still reviewed by a
project manager or project executive because I feel like you have to have
somebody with applicable knowledge to getting work done produce the bid you
know yeah not just a Salesman trying to sell something and right if you get on
Facebook and read the salesman or the that's what I was going to get into
because you go on there and it's like on some of these groups they're like sell sell sell worry about everything else
later it's like yeah and you'll hear about anything that goes into the project it's just what you said they
they're just basing it on Knowledge from something else that they've done so if you just throw a number at it and it
sticks hey you just won the job and then that's when you know you have all these installers complaining hey you missed
this there's no transitions include any floor prep uh this material shouldn't be
installed here it's like there there's so much that goes into it and the
salesman are just sell sell sell and then that's where that fine line is between people like us that are trying
to include everything and not miss anything and then you got those people that are just here's a number accept it
and then try and get change orders later so and and you know what uh and I know
we said the witnessing closing a long time ago no let's go that is um your
unit 100 correct on all of that and so there is a difference between a Salesman
and the bid process right like if you have a Salesman who is uh uh from start
to finish you're only the customer or the client or the end user's only point of contact there's going to be a lot of
information that isn't going to be uh relayed uh and it's going to be missed
and not only that there's going to be a disconnect from the installation crew and the salesman too because because
they're not always going to be on the same page so because think about it
no you're fine you're fine yeah no I get it and and just to add to that is recently
um I just had to have it because we are in labor we do labor only for some other uh stores too uh and recently I had to
have a conversation and send an email out to a salesperson that was once he sold the job he was down down right
didn't follow up didn't do anything and I'm sorry but that doesn't fly with me bro like it's your job to communicate
with the client it's your job to do all this I give you the information but if you don't relay any of it I can't talk
final numbers with your client or the client at all like that's supposed to be new right and that's where it was very
obvious the disconnect from salesperson with zero flooring experience as far as
the install the processes um and the length of time to someone who installs and works on the sales side as
well yeah so in short we don't have anybody with the title sales salesman or
sales person in our company we have a business developer who goes out and finds opportunities and and and talks
with you know developers and general contractors and Architects and
drums up new business but salesman we don't have one because
to me the the person's salesman and what I was saying when I rudely interrupted
you was a Salesman their their job titles done when the
sale's done right so like you want to manager or an executive
putting those numbers out uh any manager that approves a bit in
our company they're the ones who end up having to manage the job and that's because they know we you know
we know that that's going to put in their head like I can't just scrum through this thing real fast because I'm
the one that's gonna have to deal with any problems that come on the backside of winning the job and getting doing the
project so so you know having the manager involved
from the beginning we have estimators but even our estimators don't just send out numbers they quantify they'll put
the bid together but then it has to go across the PM or project executive's desk for full approval and review
so uh Eric did say good answer Paul loved the collaborative approach definitely tough in the meat grinder
that is bidding on a daily basis and it is it's it's tough out there
says that that's when he he's glad that he he measures his own projects and stuff so he doesn't have to rely on
someone measuring sure and uh when you physically do the job you know exactly
the entire process of how to put that puzzle piece together yeah yeah it's nice if you do it's just
so it's more frequent in residential obviously to get out and measure the job
uh some commercial you get the opportunity I'd say 20 of our jobs we
get the field measure um but are you going to go through and field measure a 155 000 Foot Elementary
School yeah yeah that's that's probably not going to happen yeah you might go
and verify a couple of Dimensions um measure some some classrooms but
you're you know measuring the whole thing by hand out in the field it can get tough back in the day probably would
have happened by me right go with my color pencils and my little graph paper and my ruler
not to say that it wouldn't be a better way to do it it just the time consuming
nature of of measuring something that you may not field measuring something on
a large scale that you may not get awarded you know yeah a fair amount of time compared to doing
a takeoff off of a set of drawings so a lot of times if I do go out to the field I'll take a couple of key
measurements and ask them even if they have a coded floor plan may not be to
scale but I can set it to scale and measure square right and use my filled measurements and take them from
different parts of the building maybe I get five or six or eight measurements and then apply that to that drawing
yeah yeah that's a it's what I do now back in the day now I'm just going to measure everything
I like technology now ish sometimes I hate it I still I appreciate it when it
works when it works yeah exactly well there's a lot out there again just
to recap this proposals and in some consistent format
make sure you're including uh you know you're putting in your exclusions
specifically what you're excluding we just a little note on ours where we
have job specific exclusions it's because we found when we added something
to our standard exclusions it was it it was just a word or two and it would get
overlooked because it's in the same spot same exclusion spot as all the other bits so
we added a spot for job specific exclusions so maybe a remodel we're going to specifically exclude moving and
that's where we'd put that kind of thing and our standard exclusions is always
you know excessive unforeseen floor prep you know and we go through all that
stuff final cleaning protection of floors um that kind of stuff so
so making your bid somewhat consistent if you can find some nuggets from by
using the industry knowledge whether it's you know ASTM f710
for resilient or the tcna handbook for tile uh or something in
cfi's stuff or carpet or the carpet and rug instituty right something that gives
you like this strategic Advantage because of knowledge and it doesn't it's
not a discrepancy in the drawings it's something that brings you a nugget in
knowledge so you know take advantage of those opportunities to win a job and
um you know don't be scared to change orders if they're warranted I mean
yeah you ain't gonna pay for everything that changes on a project don't don't think that you're gonna just this is the
number and I'm not going to change anything I just I just had to bid to where uh
right in the spec that said that no change orders are going to be allowed and as soon as they accepted ours
something happened and it was like well we're gonna need a change order and they were like okay things happen sometimes
it's things out of your control and just know that don't let anyone bully you to
take money out of your pocket when you know it's warranted that it's not your fault especially
yeah just remember it's a business you're in business you're not it's not a popularity you know you're not
you want to have a good reputation and a good relationship with everybody but at the end of the day
you you have to do what's right for your employees do what's right for your
industry do what's right for your business and what's right for yourself so you know if you kind of look at it
that way you're doing your employees a disservice in many instances if you're taking these
change orders and there's always going to be some negotiating sometimes you win some sometimes you lose some but for the
most part just don't look at change orders as a a terrible thing and also don't look at
them as a way to just put this Rock Bottom BS number in and then think
you're going to go change order your way to profit don't do it that way either that's unethical
from the start if you're under bidding a job and you think you're going to come in and and become profitable through
change orders that's ridiculous bid the job appropriately but don't be scared of
valid change orders they're they're necessary in our business in our building practices
I just want to know let everyone know that when before we started this we said
that this was going to be a really quick one and then we ended up going the full time anyways and uh FCA magazine did just put out
their an article online about the episodes that we have coming on this month so go on there see which one that
you want to listen to definitely join the zoom or you know any social medias and come and ask questions thank you for
everyone that uh is on here saying hello Dirk Jorge um Kelly
Eric you know we got yeah we love it we appreciate it thanks for the support
yep yeah and just so you guys know I'm always on LinkedIn or any socials looking at your guys's work too like I
love it a lot more than me I'll have like 8 000 notifications by the time I click on the
the app which is horrible I should probably be better about that I think I can do better too my friend
all right guys well that brings us to the end I want to uh Echo what Daniel
just said and and Jose is hey thanks everybody for joining us thank you I really do appreciate the feedback and we
it feeds us it gives us a reason we're on episode 41 42 42 42 yeah we're here
uh we're gonna continue to be here and your guys's participation makes it all worth it and we hope that you grab some
nuggets out of these conversations and feel free to reach out to us and uh come
on sometime those episodes that's on FCI Magazine's list that you may want to be on uh you
know reach out to support a go Carrera Eduardo says is there another Apple
watch this time no but we'll probably put out some uh
some more notice for the next giveaway I'm sure there'll be something popping up yep
all right guys once again thank you so much it's been a pleasure and as awesome
I've learned some stuff so we'll see you guys next Tuesday and uh chat in between
sounds good take it easy
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 41 - Training Entities - Live from FCICA
This week on The Huddle Daniel back home in Michigan, while Paul and Jose are in Arizona at the FCICA Annual Convention, we get to get a front row view of some panels, as well as meeting with some guests from training entities that discuss their trainings, and the importance of being trained.
We also gave away an APPLE WATCH! Congrats to Jeremy Glover!
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
thanks for joining us on the Huddle Paul is actually at fcica right now with Jose
but he is on stage because uh converting time zones is extremely
difficult sometimes I think yeah yeah that was uh that was oopsie uh
we were we were today years old when we realized about the overlap so so I think
how to hook this up in like I mean it didn't take like 20 minutes but once I got it it's working we can hear you so
that that's what counts right now
looks like a little kid what's that so you look like a little kid some shorts on
yeah they're riding high right now so we're gonna be talking about some training entities I think you're there
with uh a few of the people that we're going to be talking to right so we got hopefully we'll have on um Dave Garden
Sunny Callahan I don't know who else is there that we could possibly talk to but there's you know numerous other training
entities out there that um offer training and I actually I'm gonna pull
up go careers site so we can kind of see what the calendar looks like right now just to get an idea of what's going on
lately so if you go to go career.com There's an
actual there's a tab that says Education and Training and uh they have a calendar of events so
there's a you know some CFI some um nwfa so CFI is certified flooring
installers nwfa is the national wood flooring Association
um ctef the certified the ceramic tile Education Foundation
hey we live we live but afdt uh National Association of Floor Covering
technicians and there's actually some but there's like a bona class on here
for a sand and finish school that has all the pricing and stuff on here
then you just click view details and it'll give you a rundown of
the dates and and stuff like that so go career is trying to streamline
everything so that way we can uh have everyone get trained and have access
you know right there you don't have to go to a numerous different sites every
everything is right there at your your disposal in at one page
oh you know what I just realized I can I have a um a headset I can hook up to this uh
that I got for my Airlines from Delta yeah so that way I can hear you guys talk while I'm walking around because
there is a lot of background noise so I was listening but I had to try to get somewhere quiet so uh sorry if I'm
making everyone busy but they're getting ready to start another presentation and it is going to be the presentation that uh that Paul's in
um and then we also got a couple other people in there that we know Bob wind is going to be one of the panelists from uh
Welsh child uh out in Kent City uh Michigan uh Ben Leica from Lansing uh
Kyle and mosaic um is going to be out there and this is kind of foreign
yeah and here's Paul getting ready to go up there on stage we've been a little bit behind all day
um kind of the first opening uh the keynote speaker and first opening presentations
uh went a couple minutes beyond their time frame um which causes me behind we haven't
really had any breaks yet today either so I think they gave us a five minute and then uh we had a shotgun lunch
with this thing hooked up
um so so uh have you have you talked to anyone else there so you did say that
Bob Wynn was there and you said that he's with Welsh tile which is uh we actually work pretty closely with them
and and do a lot of their soft goods but um Dan Welsh is actually he was the
president of the ntca I believe at one point
or here I don't know if he was the president but he said that he was the first actual certified you don't
remember API number one I believe yes El Presidente remember that smart guy man
um helped helped establish a good program and that's what kind of separates the the hard surface uh
industry from the soft surface symmetry is the um they were able to create and Implement
their own training programs and kind of making Universal across the board
um and a lot of people adopted it and I know that there's more than one but
getting a standard and getting getting everything in the order of part of the battle this is what they do and they tell
people to sit Downs they go the song is called hurry up and find your damn skeet
oh for real we can't hear it yeah that microphone is pretty good
okay well I'm just trying to block out some of the background noise and also trying to make it so that way everyone
can hear me so um and I am just kind of walking around stalking showing everybody what's going
on here uh there's uh Miss CJ church right there be ready to close the doors but I'll come and pop in oh you were
just on camera oh I was so we're live right now
you should live stream some of their small tiles all right good I'm waiting for them to get started running late I
know but I think the the biggest thing about the
like the CTI test and um the actual tile Side of Everything Is
that um I know like over here um Dan Welsh used to be part of the
Union so he kind of brought a lot of the way they structured the union over here
so that way like ever I know a lot of people you know there's not a lot of fans of the Union but the one thing that
they do have that is amazing is their training and it's you know we we talk
about this on a previous podcast where you know we talked to him and they say
that you know they make their guys go to to trainings and it's not something that
you have a choice to do it's you know like I said one of the unions we talked
to um one Friday a month or something like that was dedicated towards training but
then the other one was like we strictly do it on weekends I think one of them said one of them I
think maybe I'm wrong maybe it was one of them said that they take an entire week off make them yeah that's
unemployment and that entire week is nothing but training but
um if you look at it that the union technically doesn't get paid for that training then right that's all that's
why they do it on a Saturday or that's why they have them collect unemployment because that's how serious they are if you're
going to be here you're going to do training and you're going to do it on basically your time
and it's just something but it's a requirement right um you know and
don't get me wrong I'll never knock you human right like perception's been changed years ago but it's part of the
agreement is for them to continue their education but the union is structured uh
their education programs in a manner in which it accommodates their work schedule right like
a lot of the problem with uh trade contractors or or Proprietors or a
two-man crew one-man crew is they can't ever really try to justify taking that time off of work to go get
the training um and we were like that at some point as well as we could not
justify right like we're taking time off before time away from work and when we didn't have work on the table we were
working to find our work um but everyone doesn't know who hasn't
gone through any trainings or put themselves in that position is the networking abilities that you have to be
part of organizations and part of training programs um so that way you can try to
unless they avoid the sometimes and avoid those dead times but you create
Social Capital which helps you fill those times right the the contacts that you make and then uh the connections
that you make through these programs um actually help put more work on your table and it's more of the work that you
want less of the work that you don't want um that's that is one of the benefits of of getting uh training and
certifications uh through your flooring Network
and so we've touched on the ntca I actually have
I've never yeah even seen what the nwfa is doing
but I mean I I hear great things and then you also have Bona doing the sand and finish school
I mean that that's something that takes some knowledge about about the products
that you're working with because what what's going to be what species are you staying in what are you installing it's
like when you when you get down to the science of things it's all something that's super important because
wood can fail super fast I mean any of the floors that you install can fail super fast but
if you think of it I mean Wood's just like a sponge right it's gonna absorb any moisture and
they get you off on the right path with uh their their trainings
okay so so they did start the little uh education program in here and it's a one-hour long thing
um and I know I'm gonna go visit uh Mr Sunny did you want me to pop in there and turn on the microphone and see if we can pick up some background noise and
kind of listen into uh some of this education portion uh yeah we can see if
we can listen to something I mean like it's about training and training entities right and fcica is just uh
kind of bringing everyone together right in in the commercial uh flooring space
therefore I just missed an opportunity there with uh with Mike out of Indiana
um he's going to be one of the panelists with me tomorrow uh up on stage and uh he's got
he started his own training program kind of walked away from installing and helping a couple of his uh his friends
seen a need for uh just training right like just to get people training he
understands that in order for a company to be successful successful big or small as they get a
focus on training and educating um current and potential installers before they hit the field so that way
they're not hitting the field with zero knowledge they're hitting the field with a basis a basic knowledge
um right which is kind of what the fcef is doing it's um yes you know that a lot of people are
like well how are they going to go and start installing their own jobs after this five-week or ten week class and
it's not about that it's about getting them uh I think one of the biggest things is you know just safety with the tools when
you have someone that's 100 green you don't know
um everything that you have to do in order to stay safe on a job site so I mean just just
that aspect of things if you are listening on Facebook right now uh make sure that you put your email address
um comment your email address because we are going to be doing a drawing for this Apple watch that I have here
boom Apple watch brand new so what I'm going to do you guys is uh
here in a second I'm just gonna go and invade this room that's in progress right now um and just so you guys know I did sign
up to be in this education program uh Paul and I kind of neglected the fact of
time frame so it's uh quarter after one over here in Arizona and we we usually
do the podcast at four o'clock back home he does it at three and this morning uh over coffee we just realized that uh and
we were not very smart about our time zone changes today so
um we kind of did a little bit of scramble mode but that's all right so I'm gonna turn on the other microphone and walk in I'm going to turn um
there's a mute button on the side and then if you turn the other one on it's a it actually has like a 600 foot range so
you don't have to be right up close to the stage but you can go set it up close to him or something
um I don't know if I'm gonna go do that with everybody hey guys just go suck it there but um no
I can get close enough and I can put the microphone and I'll face it that way I'll turn off the static noise so so that way it gets everything in the room
is that sound fair yeah okay so um give people a taste of what
actually goes on at these uh conventions and stuff I mean yeah 100 probably plenty of people that have never been to
one so if we can give them a little taste of what's going on especially in an education session because that's what
this is about is you know training and education so for me I'm not going to be rude
walking in there talking on the phone because they are presenting and I will I will fill the air for for a little bit
while you're doing it okay I'm gonna turn the volume down so I don't hear you guys so you go ahead and comment Daniel
um and if you can't hear them just let me know and I'll try to turn the microphone and static off so you guys can pick up the uh the rest of the noise
around me so I'm going to turn the camera around as I walk in and I'm gonna turn my volume down all right and then
everybody can listen in so we got some more people joining uh on
social medias too so if you are um just coming in this Apple watch that
we're giving away just uh put your email address in here and we're gonna do a little bit a little
a drawing to see uh who's gonna win this we've got some
emails and stuff coming in Facebook we've got people over here
um so yeah we got a good amount of people
already convention right now walking into this
educational event we're just gonna listen in to see what they're talking about we'll pause on stage right now
uh
I mean glass itself
good uh stuff straight to stick your top to give you a good camera up there
any of those primers as well as Forest substrates and it
gives you also a mechanical mind
[Music] is up in the game that we found a lot of
times gets skipped because it may not be in your specification um
sorry go ahead what you guys are saying
what format towel like for people or uh Scopes that they want to go over Old
Town it's like not a good thing right like never to do it anyway at all but
especially regards on that top because it stops well you can do your aggregate primers
again we have seen going over the place where it's an old school that has the
lazy block and bathrooms and to go over that we and I would
preference the block correctly like make sure it's good to clean even if you practice the uh sanded and then you
apply your primer at least this is how we've approached it some of this stuff you're going to run across isn't always
addressed in the TC is a handbook but a lot of it is but the aggregate primer is being a little bit new
um kind of one of the big just understand that it just like Dave said they stick to just about anything
we've tested it on multiple different substrates and it literally would take a glass it's going to be solid and they're
going to break the glass trying to take it off so if you have like lace block or an old mud set 4x4 well or subway tile
that you're going to go over if it's a sound substrate you can prime it with an
aggregate primer and go over it throw the bond letter okay thank you the key there is Sally Associated
because you're only as good as what's going on yeah uh you know
make sure that it's actually stuck any other Okay so
this is one on one volatile right yes so stupid questions real okay yes sir
what is an aggregate final uh I'll let Daniel tell you more about
probably the chemistry of it that there's uh pretty much all the manufacturers have one now but it's a
it's a really uh for a stupid answer a very sticky primer
it sticks to just about anything he is making sure that what your substrate is if it's sound is that it's cleaned won't
lock it wipe it down with ice Purple alcohol before we apply that primer
um but Daniel's trying to give you a more sophisticated answer there on exactly what they
penetrate that but also they have an actual sale it is
your next layer something to mechanically attach to you've got that texture there so it's going to have
resistance not just on a single plane mode is it rolled on is that how it's applied
thank you okay so waterproofing
a lot of times it's obvious facility that that uh
you know we're in a room that doesn't take on correct water but
you also want to think of your adjacent spaces and if you're on a elevated
substrate that's another thing you want to think about so it's best practice at
least waterproof uh the warm all transition and the more you don't necessarily have
to waterproof the entire wall um you guys what's your opinion on when
to use and when not to use waterproof and say it's not the specification so some of this stuff is
The Architects don't you know guidance in the right direction you have to use our our experience on them right where
you do things right I guess
[Music]
so I mean we uh so that's that's kind of what we
do over what yes
100 agree with Bob um we kind of do that the same way we're
in the immediate wet areas you know Workforce standing but you know we get outside of those those
is also a crack isolation you know so when we're flashing that up the wall the
height to the base here that's preventing that that growl will crack you know that you always see you know so
you know we look at it as waterproofing but it's also a you know crack isolation
to help prevent yeah the kind of prevents from the resulting game between you know even if
it's not a wet area or the toilet overflows in a toilet room you're predicting that water from getting into
your adjacent space so the resulting damage from a problem that you may be brought into if a toilet overflows and
all of a sudden each other to do an engagement space uh it's best to at least get that
so
about the proper joint treatment on Jensen and concrete
I'll bring up a problem real quick so in our area a lot of times Eric protects
put them inside and they need to do he literally
met me with a cement and then you use uh you know drywall mud so that's the
joints so that's not the recommended way it's not going to do anything for your wall
tile it's not crack at that spot um we've seen cracks all the way up and
down a wallboard joint because they weren't
properly treated so the proper treatment on concrete cord is
18 inches foreign
[Music]
board goes to the drywall installers one of the big challenges there is they
just plug everything tight together and the standard is called for proper spaces
because that submit board is going to expand and contract at a rate is different than
your time put them all together that can cause cracking down the line I've been on many
projects where you walk in and you go insane okay that's another three feet or four feet depending on the
boarded all those panels together
thank you all right so he's gonna walk out and
then I know that they hear us but
[Music] um
okay can you hear us now yeah I can hear you so what what was the
actual um discussion that's happening in there the discussion going on is about wall
tile and crap um there's a lot of failures and what to
look for um right of the behind the scenes um uh issues
waterproofing on the floor for hard surface um best practices so that that right there
is essentially it's the best practices uh um uh educational portion right so
uh you get the panelists up there and what they do is they feed off of each other they
talk about their best practices what they do um and then they share other information right because everyone needs a chance
for success and that's what that that's about so um
so what they were talking about was uh going over gypsum and things that uh
basically softening up on the joints like you don't pay attention to it because
it's out of sight out of mind but you're bonding really good to the gypsum but you might not have great bonding to the
uh on the mud on the on the drywall myself yeah so so what they're trying to do is
just saying hey prime prime walls do some kind of uh uh
prep work on there so that way you're ensuring a bond right I don't think I've ever been on it walk around and find out
where the uh yeah oh he loses me uh you're we can
hear you you're just Frozen I can't hear you I think uh I think I'm
in between uh we were in between the Wi-Fi points yeah
maybe two Wi-Fi points exactly welcome to where uh
uh the vendors are here they got they're all set up I'm gonna turn the camera around I can hear you now so go ahead and ask any questions
so I don't think I've ever been on a actual job site where I didn't see the drywall at least Prime but it sounds
like it happens more often than we actually think yeah but those are the the good
discussions that that happen at you know these events so that way I mean it could have been someone's first time there and
then they hear that and they're like man I've been installing on uh on Prime stuff this entire time had no idea
hey look there's somebody here there goes the tall then you're gonna check it check out that shirt that he has on
yeah it was Mr McCain we're live right now
John John McHale the boss of CFI
I heard it didn't turn this around hey how are you
good John how you doing doing great getting ready let's wait a few more minutes and our boots were started so
the the podcast today is about education um so Daniel you have any questions for
him while he's here before they get started right now uh first of all Rollin says hi
he's watching on Facebook right now so you can tell them hi
and uh just so what what do you guys have planned in the next couple of uh a
couple of months as far as classes and and stuff like that you guys got a lot coming up I know that you guys have your
event calendar on on your guys's website why don't you just look like what you
guys got going on give the website that's way people can find you so obviously you know we got a lot of
training going on right now I mean Jonathan's got a class right now with um 11 I think it is that are doing a one
week uh girl first time into hardwood Lebanon and lvps yeah so that's uh going
on right now we just finished up uh the week two weeks before we had a five
weeks of training and Wichita and um got you know like you said quite a few malls
coming up trading was going good all right and the website is CFI installers.org
and there's another tab that says events correct correct
all right you take care thanks nice talking to you all right nice talking to
you everybody here here's a microphone hey that's what
it's all about I think on one of the classes that lvp one that just finished was actually Rollin ran that one
if I'm not mistaken yeah so so this is like some of the
connections that you make here this fcic is about making connections for for the
majority of it is going to be commercial based right but these are some of the Affiliates uh who
sponsors and and oh if you if you yeah you can pan around back over there to actually uh the Sun Belt yeah because
meeting them um when we were at CFI convention last year they actually
um stopped in to our office not too long ago just to introduce themselves as the
the local guys to go to and just made sure that we didn't
that we had everything we needed basically so just from you know attending these events they make sure
that you're taken care of and some of sometimes it's about becoming a familiar face
um it just just to increase that social network you know what that is right there
that's your boy was that Efron that is that from yes sir
I can just tell by the way he walks here here's uh where GoPro is and uh uh
catching catching a little bit of traction there um I talked to Paul today for a little bit and he said uh getting uh more
people to sign up every day um which is good um yeah getting out and
maybe it's the understanding of the purpose of it is what's more than the
word right right because they're not trying to sell anything it's free for the installers they're just trying to
build that network if you look at social networks and stuff like that you know the power
of that social networking has right now that's essentially what go career can be for the installer and you know that's
what we need to start realizing that we're not all competition we're all in it together so we need to start helping each other out and if enough for him to
do it I'm gonna interrupt these guys right here they don't know it yet but I'm going to interrupt them so we're
like we're live right now bro on the Huddle and I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a microphone I'm gonna let Daniel ask you some questions
it's about education bro all right um how you doing Daniel good Efron how's it
going it's going good it's going good and I'm right here with my buddy Manny what's up man
who are you with I'm with love of audible okay and then I guess uh the podcast today is
the importance of Education what do you feel is important for installers uh New or Old
um for them to know about education and what it can provide number one is being open-minded so they can absorb the new
information because everything's being changing from our adhesives like what I mean yeah many are discussing just the
proper way to apply it bottom line being open-minded to be able to absorb the new information we're providing okay well
well essentially it can save a business it can save a family it can save someone's house you know it can
just a little bit of time on educating yourself on the products and the changes and even if you've been doing it for 20
years yeah we can increase techniques that
sometimes nobody's thought of as interesting okay that's all we needed right and if you've been in it for a
long time maybe you could come in and show some techniques yeah you can give some information that is helpful to the whole industry not just not just your
little crew or yourself but everybody else because that's how that's how everybody got to the position they're at here anyway and I'm always open to
anybody's tips tricks because if it's something that is I'll I'll enforce it and pass it on
down and you never know but it might get published in a book you never know what can happen definitely so Efron you're you're a
pretty you're a pretty big part of CFI right he said you're better
here oh yeah hands down everyone will see a license
roughly 98. okay and it begins doing nothing but training with them yeah
that's what I was saying you were at one of the last trainings right and you are one of the very few bilingual people
bilingual trainers that they have so can you right now some insight on that right
now I've talked to some of the other guys but right now you're like one of the more senior uh bilingual trainers
yep I think I'm basically like as far as I can remember I'm the only bilingual trainer
the CFI has so anytime I'm needed they call me up and I go wherever they want
okay so we need to get some more uh bilingual people in there to help you
out then yeah I'm always trying to push it right now my son travels with me on some of these training seminars and you
know I'm always looking to help bring somebody else in if they're willing to do it hey I'm willing to help bring them
in so uh we got Eduardo Martinez over here saying that you're a role model and you
are men like all right that's awesome thank you I've never heard anyone say anything bad about you we love you in
the industry hold head is over here speaking Spanish and I don't speak Spanish so he's just saying hello
hey gracias man hey it's all love man anytime I can help anybody you guys got
my contact information please don't hesitate to pass it on down English Spanish if they're stuck on a job and
having issues use me as a resource I can get the information or get them handled that's
awesome that's that's good to know because you know we deal a lot with people that are um English as their
second language and since we don't speak Spanish it it is that language barrier to where I can explain something so good
and if they don't understand it it's useless right it's lost in translation so we we appreciate that and we'll
definitely use you use that resource when we need to the only thing I ask is generally call
me around your lunch time because that should probably be my morning time because we got that time zone California
yep and I was just ask
ing coming back and forth no man we definitely appreciate uh what
you do for the industry and look forward to working with you even more you know with uh definitely anytime No Maybe
I'll talk about it I have him on a podcast and try to tackle some of uh the cultural
differences and and try to help everyone make some connections I mean if you really think about it what we should do
is we should have just a 100 percent Spanish podcast with like him Eduardo
Jorge whoever else that speaks Spanish that wants to be on it we just we're pretty much just there to uh to record
you guys and go live but you guys just talk about whatever you want
all right hey nice seeing you again brother take care yeah you too take it easy
you gotta go this booster getting ready he said he got Poopers what time what time do the booths open
over there um so I believe they open at two o'clock
and I'm walking around now because I'm looking for Mr uh diver James himself
uh Mr Beer face yeah a few people that have joined on
Facebook um if you are watching on Facebook and you haven't done so yet definitely put
your email address if you're on the zoom call make sure you put your email address because we're going to be giving
away an Apple Watch I think uh Ashland is putting everything together
and she's just gonna do a quick drawing and then uh then it's yours
we appreciate everyone for for joining and this is our way of showing that appreciation right here I knew I'd make
my rounds oh is he watching live he's watching live yeah hey what I'm gonna do is
Daniel is uh I'm gonna I'm gonna turn off my microphone I'm gonna give somebody his and you can go ahead and
talk with him for a little bit um we turn the the camera around so that way you guys can check out his beard so
um actually I'm gonna leave my microphone on but I'm just gonna sit back a little bit yeah so let me um let me turn this um
because you'll have questions too so we just gotta we can hear you we just can't see you which is totally fine because
Sunny is way better looking than you are because he's got a beard
so I'm gonna put the noise transition on low yeah so just hold this yep just hold
that what's going on everybody what's up sonny how's it going it's good man how you doing I was just
sitting here watching it and I heard him come in the door uh did you hear when I when he said I'm
about to go find Mr Divergent himself I did that's why I started yelling and he found him
so uh we're you know we're just talking about the training entities and uh want
to have you just give a little plug and kind of uh you know what you do and what's going on with you
guys right now no sure appreciate it man I'm always happy to talk about nafct you know that
never shy about it but uh you know as you know we got the new resilient class
that we just started um first one we did last month now we got another one scheduled for next month
up at Ardex and Aliquippa um two-day course and then the subfloor substrate class to go with it
and then this one is um special though right because this one is
bilingual this next one this one this one we're gonna have Daniel Ortiz from um
uh from Capri flooring lettuce flooring excuse me he's going to be there to help with any translations that we may need
something that we haven't had in the past that we've really needed um so we're going to have him there
we're going to put together the curriculum so it'll be an uh all Spanish course that's awesome we were just talking to
Efren about how it's uh one of the and you know you and I have talked about this plenty of times before how it's
really lacking to have the the trainers that you need in you know not even just Spanish but
any other language it's it's difficult to find anyone and yeah it's a huge part of the industry that all the training
entities are missing so I'm glad to see you guys jumping on board right in there man I'm proud of you guys yeah it's
needed because we you know we see it we see guys who are hesitant to come because they're not sure if they're
going to get past that language barrier so they miss the training um so we wanted to make sure we had
something for him so it's definitely needed I've got a guy in California I had to do
his data sheets in uh Russia Ukrainian Korean you know just little things like
that he needed it in different languages or so his installers could do it right and it's you know it sounds like oh
that's not a big deal but we don't think about it as manufacturers that you know what we need to cover more than English
right and I think um you know in some of these trainings that I've been to
some of the trainers you know get down to the fact that something that you don't even think
about is that some of these guys don't know how to read any language so that's
you know an issue as well and he said that you know if you do fall into something like that definitely approach
the the trainer and be like hey I can't read he said you know I I don't remember who it was but they were like we had to
read every question but we got through it yeah yeah we we've seen that and and
it's it's a shame because obviously people don't want to say they
can't do that but we're not going to be judgmental we want to help you right we'll we'll help you do the curriculum
we'll help you learn how to read I mean that's part of your life so I get it it's some things we take for granted
that that you know not everybody can do so I want to talk a little bit about
um on the substrate and subfloor class that you guys have because when we went through
that it's probably the most mind-blowing uh presentation that I went through to see
because you got you got you guys have a team right and you the entire team was at the one we went to so we had multiple
manufacturers all working together you know you got Ardex people mixing them a
pay and a tech bucket and it was pretty amazing so you can can you talk a little
bit about what you got going on with that yeah it's funny you mentioned that I was just telling somebody that story
at lunch that we knew we had something special Paul and I looked at each other when San Biondo was talking and for
mopay and in Seth pavarnick and Daniel from Ardex we're mixing you know Tech
self leveler and poured it out on the floor we knew we had something right because when we're doing these events
and we're putting this training together we don't have our sales people had on we have our training hat on and it says all
of our names right so we uh we're really excited about that we obviously that's
our Flagship class but we we certainly love that certification if you if you think about who makes self levelers in
this industry the buffets the Ardex his sherdox play decrete I'm missing somebody Tech they were all
their technical people were on this committee when we put it together right so it's it's it's in depth and it's very
thorough and we always get people who go through the course and they're like I didn't realize I didn't know what I didn't know right right if you go
through a course and you learn one thing you know maybe you review for part of it but if you learn one thing when you're
in that class it's worth it right yeah we had um just like we had the Nora rep
in here last week or the week before and he was talking about you know something that he had and he was like I sent you
the the the new information I said I know I I did I got it and I read it but that was
you know like a year ago so yeah I mean things slip your mind
sometimes right and you're like you know what I do remember reading that now but without the constant reminder it just
you know you don't remember everything but I think not to mention things are going to
change in a year Technologies you're not driving the same car you drove 30 years ago so why would you do the same thing
you did working 30 years ago right things are going to change and evolve and you've got to stay in touch with
what's going on because look at moisture I mean moisture is a big deal used to three pounds 75 percent that was the
standard you know now we have adhesives that go to 99 you know uh underlayments
to go to unlimited moisture things like that so things are always changing so you got to stay in touch
yes everything evolves right it hasn't evolved in order for everything to
remain successful yeah um when concrete evolves adhesive it's just that's right
it's the way it goes constantly changing the only thing consistent is change right right and I think when when we
were at that um event Seth pavarnick you know I asked him I said how do you feel about you know all you guys being in the
same room he was like I love it man it's there there's there's nothing better to show the
industry than what they call his competitors going against here or coming
together and showing people what's going on he said because they don't look at each other as competitors they're all in
there for the same thing and that's to to put something on the floor that's not gonna fail and the only way to do that
is to educate people on how to do it the correct way right right yeah show them uh you know there are shortcuts but you
got to know which ones you can take and ones you can't but that that was the biggest thing when we started putting
nafct together we did we went to all these companies but we didn't go to their sales team we didn't go to their
executive team we went to their technical department and said look this is what we want to do this is how we're trying to change the industry what kind
of input do you have and instantly everyone was on board right they wanted to come and and put it together and you
know it took us probably a year to put that class together even with the people that we had doing it because we wanted
to be so thorough but um you know we can all sit in a room and and that day we're
wearing the Naf CT hat we're not wearing you know our company's hat right and I
mean I think I need a new nasct hat to be honest with you no I think he brought some from uh
where were you guys it's just that oh when they when you guys were in Georgia oh okay so yeah he brought a new
one I'm gonna have to steal it yeah yeah we gave we gave all the rest of our hats away there all the Naf CT hats we need
to get some more so I better hang on to this one then for real yeah yeah
uh guy just kept my drink over live
and then uh so other than naft you are um
the Divergent himself so you want to talk about your adhesives
and what you got going on with that so that way people know that you got some good stuff I mean we're here at fcica uh
here with Jose
all right switching it around that's actually our booth right there um you know we try to stay involved with
all the industry groups that we can and talk about
you know talk about adhesives talk about the best practices you can have and how to use it and um
you know for us it's not really a cell thing we tell people we find out what
their problem is we tell them what we have to fix their problem and do it that way solution-based
selling whatever you want to call it but you know I don't I don't sell buckets of glue I just talk to people about adhesive and if it works it works for
them so I'm not a big salesman for Divergent I'm an NFC salesman
the adhesive sells itself right yeah that's it I mean I I tell people I tell
my customers if I'm in here every month talking to you about glue I'm not doing my job you know it's like the old
infomercial you need to set it and forget it get the product you need put it in there and just keep using it not
ever have to worry about it because if you're thinking about glue on a job we're not doing something right you're
not using the right one so you know what I tell folks too is you know when you're when you're bidding a job or you're
trying to get something done uh just getting glue for a job that you're doing don't make a decision based on economics
when it needs to be based on performance so always make sure you're getting the right stuff
right and I've reached out to you before with some adhesive questions and you're always you know willing to answer calls
and I'm just we talked to Efren and you know he's at any time you got a question reach out and I think that's the biggest
thing about the industry is you know once you start going to some of these networking events everyone you know
ourselves included is you know welcomes you with open arms and they're like anything you need just let me know like
if I don't know it I probably know someone that does yep and if you don't know the answer say you don't know it
and find out find out a topic of a speech I'm giving tomorrow it's okay to
say you don't know there's nothing wrong with that but you know when you talk about different Industries for all
different types of Trades I mean there's nothing really like the flooring industry because you can ask anybody
questions that you're not going to be judged on it right if you don't know the answer there's especially at a group
like fcica there's 30 people here who can answer the question right this is the people that I call when I have
questions so you always got yourself with people who know more than you which is easy for me
sometimes like there was one time where I did call Don steicha and the
his answer to my question was I know you already know this and I believe that you do so I don't
even know why you're calling me but it's like I just gotta make sure man like something like things change something
could have changed and then I don't know the answer anymore
now for sure that's that's the important thing you know be it nafti fcic it's having that network of
people that you can call I mean their trading's great don't get me wrong ours is great theirs is great but it's the
relationships that you make with these technical departments and even sales people that that you know you can call
and call them directly when you have something going on that's that's the that's the intangible value of being in
one of these groups you know
hey Sonny thanks for your time today I look forward to seeing you again soon no thanks for having me I appreciate it see
you later guys see ya and you gotta get ready anyway so the crowd's getting ready to come in I gotta go get me a
drink um I do want to I do want to introduce everybody to someone who's uh who was kind enough to give us a
prototype before the invention hit the market so I'm gonna let him introduce himself and kind of just uh turn the
camera around and show you guys what he has
I'll just let everybody know who you are who you're with and what you got here because you kind of changed the game for us very quickly
yeah so here tell them to put the microphone I hate to put the microwave
okay you've got the tool kit the company that comes with this attaches to a drill and you've got your double head roller
and that's the convenient to keep it one hand with two tools you got a smoother out here and it all comes in and it's a
little different bags canvas bag with that you're going to use your plank Skinner to strip the wear layer off of
luxury of honest points yep do you guys can kind of see what he's doing right here on phone installer magazine
um where can they where can they check out one of the videos and find your product yeah they can go too
to show you how to do just about anything yeah and I'm telling you what guys like
this right here this right here is is just a general basic transition and they skinned this
material off of the plank so it doesn't matter if you have a matching transition or not you can skin
the material and if anybody who's done it by hand before knows how hard it is but man you know what
we've definitely used that and just had something that was sitting on the shelf and was like sounds like we're making
our own yeah no it's it's fantastic it's great and sorry to the people at versatrim or
anybody else who who makes Uh custom orders like that but man I just wanted to get everybody to meet their gentleman
and he helped us out almost a year ago today and it is probably hit the market and it's fantastic so thanks Adam I
appreciate it so make it match
.com all right so I'm gonna go find Mr Garden
before we run out of time guys yeah [Music] we got about seven minutes to go before
we hit the hour what are you doing with that watch right now like what's uh everybody's entering
we've got we've got quite a bit of emails in here I just uh got with Ashlyn
she's putting everything together and once I gave her the okay she is going to
draw a name and uh email and we'll email you guys done talking now look at that Mr popular on
stage we'll email you and just exchange some information and then I'll send it out
you got to give him a little bit I think he said oh he's probably all the way over there
yeah I kind of feel bad that I didn't get to sit through that whole presentation because a few of our friends were there
um presenting and um I'd like to show support
all right well here's Mr Garden right here isn't a conversation right now and I've
been interrupted as Mr Jeffrey Johnson with my pay you guys met John
so what I'm gonna do Daniel same thing is I'm going to turn the camera around just hand it over to him yeah
make sure that um when he you hand him the microphone you give him the correct side I think uh the last guy he had the
microphone pointed towards his hand and not his mouth when you then put it by his mouth he had his finger over the
receiving portion so it looks like we do have some more
people on Facebook that might not have been here so we are giving away an Apple Watch uh within the next 10 minutes so
yeah your email in here
area
and then you are actually going to close us out so I'm going to handle so I'm gonna hand you the the phone
I'm Angie sponsor and then just answer the questions and he's kind of hard to hear right now because I have to use the speaker on the phone but all right
Daniel what's up what's up Mr Garden how you doing today uh not too bad not too bad it's getting
loud in here it's uh I've uh your brother's playing with a shirt
right now what he doesn't realize it since the airline lost my luggage this is
you've been wearing that shirt for three days the shirt's different it should be Man start no starts needed
so uh we're talking about uh training entities and just what you guys are
offering we talked to John a little bit already about um kind of the schedule that's going on but I think one of the biggest things
that you guys have going on right now is the Train the trainers right in order to get more people in the industry trained
we need those people to train them and uh well that's just the thing you know we
started getting these trainings popping up and there's there now we're doing multiple in a week
right we can only stress guys like I mean we got Rollins but poor island we got we're sending that
guy everywhere and uh and you can tell he doesn't enjoy that at all he doesn't
enjoy the Limelight he doesn't he doesn't yeah in front of people at all and it's tough on him no but seriously
seriously if we have all this opportunity to train right now and we're
looking at this and see you know our most of our trainers have gone to work for manufacturers or are aged out
and so This Not That the pool is too small but yes it's too small in other
words it's not too small for what we're doing in 2019 or 2020.
um be prior to coping is what I'll say as I guess 2018 or 19. but for the market we have right now it
is too small and the tough part about this Daniel is is we're looking for the
right guys busy doing training it's tough to train them you know and
that's a it sounds like it sounds tough but you can't just throw somebody out there and say hey look
you're a trainer now we know you can make this scene we know we we know you know what uh well how to run a trial you
know we know you know how to mix uh mix uh floor prep so in that case you're a
trainer but it's not it's not that simple and it's really not that simple so we really want guys
I'm talking about the gift um you know guys that aren't afraid to talk but guys that aren't afraid to talk
and fit inside a system of a curriculum that's been written by people that were
let's face it smarter than me all right right so you think about this so all the curriculum that I that I teach
you know you look at John number Bob Gillespie and Eddie Braille and those guys those guys I mean they've got Jim
Walker of course otherwise Nazi Walker but those guys um they they wrote solid stuff it maybe
needs updating right we all can all need updates but the class structure that they put
together is there for a reason and I hear Jerry Miller teaching the true cut method Step at our
last train to train her and uh it's amazing it's amazing when you get
to stuff like that that the guys they know how to put the step on right but then demonstrating is
something completely different well when you're working on the job site you're not
you're just working right you're working you're in there you're get in get out you're trying to get paid and when
you're teaching someone it's you have to to teach it and then explain it way slower and like
you said you know when we went through the Train the trainer it's like that all this stuff you know you can learn it in
20 minutes but it's going to take like two days yeah you need to realize one that you got to explain it to people
that may not know you know exactly what they're doing because we've been in all been in classes where someone that
doesn't you know they're pretty new to that technique and then number two is
you got to make sure that you can actually talk in front of a crowd and be engaging and have people listen want to
listen to you well you have to think about it in the class that we did together the one that you your your brother and sister were in we had a
debate about wall trimmers right to the point where we were doing what was the you I think it was you
pulled the directions out on how to use it yeah but the thing about it is
you can do it so many different ways on your job site but if you're going to train it you have to train it to the
manufacturer's specifications and that's tough for some guys because we all most of us taught ourselves right
and that uh don't get me wrong we love that uh we love that we love guys that
take the initiative to learn things but when we start teaching them uh that
that product or that we have to follow what the manufacturer tells us that they want us to they want us to present their
tool right and and these manufacturers have gifted us with some of their tools
do you look at what Robertson tracks have done for us over the years my goodness how we could we can only thank
them for their tools so if we show them incorrectly we're not thanking them if
we're actually hurting their tool and that's that's uh that doesn't do anybody any good
right and that's the thing it's and it's not just one tool like you're not going to say this is the tool
that you have to use it's you brought up you bring a bunch out and it's like these are the tools that we use use the
one that you like use the one that you're used to it's it's not all one tool fits all type of scenario well yeah
especially like with the carpet with the carpet we stress if you got your iron and that's what you use I'm testing you
all right I'm testing you make sure you if you if you like your iron go grab your iron from the from the Vans I want
to show you how that what the cool Glide does I want to show you what it's what a three inch uh a three inch iron is
supposed to do I want to show all that to you and I'll show you the proper way of using the tools but uh when you're
when you're instructing you really need to stress to somebody else
um a you're not you're not um the judge and jury you know you're there you're there
to inspire them to to create something right you want to leave in the class uh you want them leaving that class so that
they're they're pumped up about the lessons they've learned which you don't want to do you don't want to feel like
they've gotten beaten down because their way wasn't the right way and and so you really you really have to
work with the guys and I got I got to tell you one of the things I look for and what uh and I wanted to I didn't do
this in our class I wanted to hand everybody a clipboard and I wanted to see who lost them
and the reason for that is is because if you're training well think about this if you're training somebody you're standing
there with a clipboard in your hand you're probably the wrong guy to be doing a training because what you're
doing you're grading them not really training them and I like to see so I like the guy that can't find his
clipboard you know because he's down on his hands and he's working right and that's uh yeah you'd love to see that
you love to see guys actually give get right down next to somebody and you got your yeah I just and if you if they are
if you know anyone is listening that is interested in training definitely reach out to you because you guys are probably
going to have plenty more of these right coming up I think one of the the best things about
the Train the trainer when um when we were there is that you're working with other guys that already
know what they're doing and might not just have that um
the outgoing personality and you know get along with everyone and stuff like that but you have the ability to ask
those questions that you know are gonna get asked in the class just so they can kind of be prepared once they they do
get into that situation oh yeah there's always that EGR in the room right uh EGR guys is extra Grace
required there's always there's always always at EGR I remember when I was a student that
was me so you know it wasn't until somebody humbled me that I actually started
learning thank goodness thank goodness there were people around to do that so uh Rollin is jumping off right now he
said tell shorty Dave to have fun um yeah you tell Roland I always do have
fun mostly at his expense but uh so do you need anything else from
me no we appreciate it um we already gave the the website earlier but it is CFI installers.org uh go on there see
what events are going on and you know we'd love to have you guys be part of CFI one more if you want to become a
trainer email education at CFI installers.org
all right education at CFI installers.org um
my cell phone number for that but somebody who I kept calling it his new
well Dave appreciate your time today and uh we'll we'll be talking to you soon thank you the day in the back here
all right I think uh yeah
we're about ready to bring Ashlyn on and uh give this watch away
all right got quite a few names in here so we'll see
that's probably a horrible gentleman probably sound like dying Chewbacca Jeremy Glover
Jeremy Glover I don't even have to ship it you can't come pick it up
the last uh one that we gave away we gave away the fcica the the Sim and he
was kind of butt hurt that he didn't win and that's what he said it's rigged it was rigged again well he doesn't get to
say that I guess hey we know that uh it wasn't us that Drew
yeah I didn't even know he worked there you don't even know who Jimmy Glover is so exactly
Eduardo says it was rigged because uh I learned how to use these
microphones like one minute before we went live actually we were going by didn't and that's my fault so and I
ordered a couple of those microphones Hey There Goes Kathy hey how's it going good how you doing
today awesome having fun learning yeah
yeah all right make sure you teach this guy next to you something before he leaves that's what I'm doing I'm here to one of them I'll be teaching them don't
worry I got you covered buddy all right have fun thanks well congratulations Jeremy I'm winning
and thanks everybody but um I should probably go because I got some people to talk to I gotta do some
learning while I'm here and then we also have to thank Ashland for actually uh coming on camera he came on camera he
hates coming on camera you guys are so welcome that's awesome all right one
thanks for uh joining us and make sure you you follow us on social media um ask us any questions that you want
definitely hit us up with any questions and you know the go Carrera YouTube page you
can watch these videos and then we're also on you know any of the the podcast platforms so make sure
that you uh if you didn't listen to the whole thing and you want to there's plenty of ways to listen so
tell someone and uh I'm sure that there will be plenty more giveaways in the future and
Ashland will come on camera again for those oh well I'll be there all right you guys have a good one and we'll see
you next week
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 40 - The Mindset of Success
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose get a little more internal, digging deep on getting your mind right in order to be successful, and what role mindset plays in when and how you achieve your goals.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
family welcome to the huddle we're here every Tuesday at three o'clock to
discuss maintaining Port progress in your flooring career I'm Paul Stewart with go Carrera
with me as always is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez a preferred flooring from Grand
Rapids Michigan we're trying to catch up beforehand here
but how's things going better this way for me man that was down last week yeah there's a bit of I think
I was down you were down uh yeah for people being scientific I had
the man to the man the man flew cool well
um this week's a little bit off the beaten path of flooring installation and
tools and everything else we talk about a lot uh we are going to be talking about mindset and
uh I think you know kind of diving into
um the mindset that you need to take the next level
um and and almost no matter what uh level you're at now but taking it to
the next level um you know I've had
the the real pleasure and I'd say blessing of of working with some of the at least
one of these guys uh his name's Ed mylett is one of the top mindset coaches
on the planet really uh certainly in the United States he was
a one of
me Robin losing a little bit
early Pro at the same time
uh oh is that me
we heard oh
okay okay let me try something here
no it's it's your Wi-Fi Paul yes
I'm gonna try and switch over here
get this fired up busting out the hot spot
busting out the hot spot there you go hopefully I don't lose you guys when
this happens
you know how to get back on yeah if you don't Ashland does super smart
how's that is that better yep okay
probably look like a robot for a second there sounded like a robot
uh so I don't know where I left where I started really following the coach yeah
just start start with one of the when you were talking about the mindset coach yeah okay yeah so I've had the real
pleasure of of learning from one of the best in the nation uh probably the world
on mindset training um and and once you go down the path of
working on your mindset this is it it never stops guys and it's it's one of
those things that that I think is a real separator between
um High performers and people who kind of get stuck and it's a good way to get unstuck and his name's Ed my Ladd uh he
he was one of Tony Robbins Protege long long time ago he's built
oh I I don't know how many Fantastic companies but he's he's ran come he's
owned companies in the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars well he just bought an island that has a
six thousand foot Cottage on it so that tells you anything uh he flies in a
falcon 900 or some crap private jet so he's
he's been Ultra successful but he's one of the most down to earth and uh very uh
personable people you'll ever meet I don't say that to brag on on Ed what
I'm I'm saying is he did come from nothing and
like Tony he talks about the six real human needs and one of them being
significance you know others are like variety and and security and those types
of human basic human needs he's high on the significance chart meaning he when he achieves things
that's what really feeds his soul but what he's taught me over the
past probably three to four years um is no matter what level you're at you can
take these steps to take yourself to the next level and those steps
start with your mind um it's really fascinating if you think
about the brain everything you see everything you've touched or you use on a daily basis started as somebody's
thought [Music] you know it was a thought in somebody's mind that collaborated with some other
people's thoughts and then some engineering thoughts and then before you know it you have a product that you love
like an iPhone or something so
a lot of people when they get stuck and when I get stuck and it happens when you
hit these ceilings and Ed teaches this Theory that
we all have an internal uh thermometer kind of like on the wall in your house
and if you're you know if you're a set of 70
it's real hard without changing your mindset to perform better than that
and sure enough you'll have this great success on something and then you'll feel yourself just crash right back down
uh I know that I've witnessed that in my career and in my personal life and
athletically as well if I'm when I was competing in different races uh ocrs and
such you know you can catch yourself doing really well at something and you
you get this real successive feels but then you you almost self-sabotage
and it's because you haven't changed your mindset to uh
most of the time believe you're worthy of that so when we're installers and a
lot of you know companies that are are around right now are installers like you guys
or like myself that went on to start building a company
and you use your belief system changes right
you start to believe a little bit more as you go as you achieve something you start to believe well that's kind of
slowly um moving that temperature gauge back up to where you want it to be maybe
you're at a 50 and you want to be at a 70 so to speak
um you know believing that you can get there is the first battle and
thinking big is the other thing like you won't fail if you don't think big
right because if you're always thinking really small those are achievable things yeah yeah if
you've been to a goal setting um Workshop or something where someone's teaching you about setting goals they're
going to tell you like set big goals uh most of them and I believe in that but
you also have to believe that it's possible right I've been listening a lot to uh
Simon sinek like I just listened to um start with why and then I'm listening
to find your why right now too and one of the the things that he always points
back to is Henry Ford whether you think you can or you can't you're right yeah
correct it's all in how how yeah Henry Ford I'm saying that to people since I
was a little kid yeah I heard I've just been saying it to him
yeah it's like it's it's all in what you believe right if you believe you can you're gonna do
it and that's where we kind of balance each other out because he thinks that 100 percent
anything is possible and then me I'm more like oh that's gonna be eternal
optimist I just think it's all feasible right
because you surround yourself with um we've had
we've been fortunate to surround ourselves with great minds and when you surround yourself by people who
are full of positivity it feeds to your positive Natures too and that's where most of that comes from
um I've never had a coach like this gentleman that you're talking about um maybe I should look into that because
mindset is different and it has changed and it will change you know mindset today isn't going to be the same in five
years I I guarantee that but um I think uh yeah it's a discovery I
mean they're going to discover new ways the truth is your mind doesn't change that like the the the neurotransmitters
and these things they don't they don't change that fast but humans are starting to learn
they're calling it the enlightened phase where you're starting to learn that your
mind is a is your tool like your subconscious is your tool and your job
as a human is to feed your subconscious the things you you desire and believe in
and allow things to happen that doesn't mean you you know you imagine stuff and proof you know everything just appears
on your front door it but it means you still have to take action but that's part of you and this is the cool part
you're taking action is part of you um solidifying your belief in something
like if you really believe something you're going to take action on it right and if you don't that's when we
procrastinate that's when we hold up it's either fear or lack of belief
and so what you think about and how you go about your day and like Simon sinek man
that dude is absolutely awesome too uh the the you know start with your why
I have not read that Daniel so I'd like to hear some of the insights you've garnered from that but uh one of Ed's
most you know this is this comes from Neuroscience
this isn't phony baloney stuff now I have you guys ever heard of the secret right the the book The Secret it's like
talks about uh it was one of the first books written on you know I think I have
it I might I might have downloaded it but I think you talked about it one of the last previous episodes right yeah I
think I've referenced it it's a little bit floofy for me but that it was the
first uh book one of the first books um that really was talking about
affirmations and speaking things into existence and
all this stuff it puts it in a way where almost the action is secondary not as necessary
um which I don't agree with myself I think action is how you solidify your belief in something so if you can can
dream it you can achieve it right you've probably heard that saying before and so
but the only way you convince yourself sometimes that it can be done is just by
taking action I know that even in actually installing
floors I've walked I I've gotten a set of blueprints before uh as an installer
and I'm like how in the world I don't I don't know how to do this at all I don't
know I love those prints I love those kind of videos how in the world am I going to make this happen well you just
take one step and one foot in front of the other and you start working it and
you start to figure some things out and you start to figure out how to get it done you make a few mistakes of course
correct you know um so it's this is applicable stuff
But first you have to believe you can actually do it so getting those drawings like you said you love them Jose
I love the the thought process and the the internal
brainstorming that is involved in that when someone says it can't be done or or you feel like it's like is you looking
at you're right like that's impossible just the thought process going through that I don't I don't know why I love
that part I just love that part but when you look at it and you're like yeah I can figure that
out like in the back of your mind you're like I can figure that out I I I'm
always like that no matter what well that's the belief yeah
that's the belief that's the piece that you know a lot of people lack and you
just have to find that belief or some people it comes very natural like yourself and you need Daniel with the
lasso to kind of Reign you back sometimes like I don't you think you
could do it big brother but just think about it for a second you know the thing is like yes it can be done
right but like the perspective that he brings to it is like I'm sure it can be done but
at what cost can it be done right what's it going to do what domino is it going to tip over for that to to be the end
goal that's that's where he comes in well sometimes it's a matter of uh yeah we can do it but this tool costs this
much and we were 100 gonna need it is this gonna justify yeah this purchase
The Squeeze my um my mother told me a long time ago
when I was a little kid when I used to fix everything um if I can take it apart I should be
able to put it back to the other right so just that little thing that she told
me when I was a little kid makes me mentally dissect everything before I even touch it and that's where the
confidence comes that I can figure it out like everybody was the first one that instilled belief in you
well yeah but um I also ended up with a lot of extra screws and parts and the things never really worked again
um well I don't work on my own Vehicles yes me either
well so one of the the core principles that Ed teaches is called
the RAS or the reticular activating system and it's literally a neuro
circuit in your mind where what you focus on you attract more of
so if we're focusing on negativity and and I can't and and this is tough my life
sucks you know whatever if you're if you're in that kind of a mindset
you are going to bring in more of that into your life it's like you're
you're subconscious is is meant is built to affirm your Consciousness your your
conscious brain so it's like oh you can't do it let me affirm that let me make sure that you don't go jumping off
a bridge because because you're wrong you know like it
wants to keep you stable and and so whatever you're you're thinking of most
whatever you're focused on where you're where your mind goes is where your
subconscious mind goes and you if you're thinking of the positive things and
you're thinking of the success of your company and the success of your projects and this is tough like especially when
things out of your control maybe at some point is causing the that to not be true like
you know that you know you're in the the so to speak but
you got keep in a positive mindset and I've seen this work on multiple projects like just keep thinking about the
positive side of things and things tend to work out that doesn't mean you just sit back on
your finger and lean back on your thumb so to speak you got to take action but
keeping a positive mindset about things and keeping at the front of your mind the things that you want to achieve
whether it's as an installer as a company as uh you know
regardless of level I mean you guys started as installation you know as installers kind of in a bad situation
you learn some stuff you found a lot of value in you know Education and Training
and as you got a little deeper into your install um and you you started to get better and
better and then you took the next step and now you guys own the company new employee subs and you employ employee
installers and you know starting from you know
a um I'm not going to say an installer
because I I wouldn't install I was just a guy pushing a broom you know that they got Tricks played on him all the time by
my by my uh you know I think that's how everything starts right every installer
starts by push it yeah the Gopher the girl yeah the the room Pusher you know everybody starts like that yeah well
some of us are smart enough to maybe go get some training first or lucky enough to go get some training first where you
you have a little bit of knowledge when you walk onto the job site I had zero knowledge the day I walked under the job
site of what to be an installer do anything so
um but yeah what you think about it really affects the opportunities that
come your way it's it's very similar to if you go buy a new car and you know you
thought the car was pretty unique you liked it you loved it as soon as you buy it you see 10 of them on the street
yeah so 100 well I did 10 more people just get the car that day or something no you just
didn't recognize it and now that it's at the front of your mind you you notice it
so you notice and your your subconscious works on the things that you are uh
focusing on so a lot of mindset it's easy to say just think positive
but that's one of the hardest things to do when you're when you're in a negative situation so what's one of the good
exercises for that though and I think uh like like I want I'm asking on a personal level too like
um I take time to to sit back and take a breather and and what what I call
manifest right I try to take time and and focus on on my subconscious does it
work all the time no but it's it's a muscle I feel like I constantly have to work on it like I want to know what
everybody else does there's something else that might work better for me is there um
it is um it is focusing and taking a step back if
you're talking about being in a uh a boiler uh kind of situation
um I'll tell you a story breathing Ed calls it breathing from
your heart it's kind of like just breathing from your chest but I'm
imagining from from literally from your heart it's kind of the way that you feel
when you hug somebody you really deeply love and breathing that in you know what I
mean and I know this sounds a little pie in the sky stuff but it is true
um but when you're in an emergency situation uh
you know calming you're having working on the exercise of breathing and
controlling your breathing comes in real handy when you get in an emergency situation
so I think I've told you guys about the time when I was in Las Vegas and I was on vacation and I went down to the pool
at a at the condo we were playing we were staying at and I was going down to the swimming pool to check it out my
wife and family was not at the condo at the time they were out enjoying the strip and
I went down to the uh pool walk past the pool get to the hot tub and there's this little
little boy in the arms of another little boy that was probably like nine and the
little boy in his arms looked to be about two and it's 117 degrees in
Vegas at the time and I noticed his lips were blue and I was like he's in a hot tub it's
thousand degrees outside something's not right and I said is he okay and they
were like oh yeah you know I mean it's just a little nine-year-old kid holding him well
I grab him and by the arm and he's a wet noodle I mean he's just nothing
I lay him down and I immediately start CPR and
we fast forward that he he was revived and lived and we we have contact with
him now but the point I'm gonna make is his dad is in the was active military at
the time they were only about 15 feet away sitting in their lounge chairs
just honestly didn't know anything was wrong but when the emergency broke out
his mind shut off and he he was bawling and his wife was
bawling obviously and a very intense situation
but it shows you like and and nobody around me there was probably 80 people
there kind of gathering around no doctor came and took over no nurse came and
took over there was nobody there it was just and had he had to deal with that situation
under that under the mindset he was in at that moment um
it would have been dire you know it would have been a completely different outcome right you're right because now
you put it when you say it like that you're right the perspective the being able to
like you said breathe through their heart rate take that take that breath and actually process what's going on and
instead of thinking about oh this is the worst outcome ever this is not going to turn out
try something do something take action you have to take an action right calm yourself and take action and this isn't
anything this is a really um kind of an emotional situation obviously
with this little boy but it was um
it's a big situation but this works in small situations as well the point is is
it's not like we just stood around him praying hoping he's gonna come to life all of a sudden
right right you you had to get and take action and
not one time that I think he was gonna die not one moment in that time did I did I
feel like he was gonna die is that possible belief I just believed
um call it what you will but he's alive today and
um so you know applying this to business I didn't want to bring down the the mood
but I just wanted to to bring up like there's gonna be these boilerplate
moments where you're just you're frantic and sometimes it's in business I don't
know if you guys have been there before but I I've been there where it's like the the stress of the financial
situation of a certain deal like took and took over and we're a small business
man nothing nothing is for sure right we're just a small business yeah that is certain right but I can certainly count
on Daniel he can certainly count on me you know we all have our limits but it's a small business like you you get those
Boiler Room scenarios uh a lot more than you'd like to admit but
is it really us internalizing and then saying oh no no or is it really the
situation is bad you know most of the time it's us reacting and then being
reactive but then the mindset does have to change in order to push through sometimes you gotta walk away from each
other and come back and finish the conversation you know yep yeah those are all like real
um day-to-day stuff even you know if you can keep that that
um belief in yourself that you're gonna do it that's how you guys have done what you've done you believed in yourselves
and if there's a message to the installation community of any installer out there that's wanting to start their
own deal uh you know maybe you start a full service shop you first really have
to believe that it's possible that you can actually do it the how will come heck you can jump on this podcast go
back and I I what episode are we on 40 something 40. we should be celebrating today
40. uh go back and listen to some of the
episodes and it'll help you through a lot of your struggles in business a lot
of your early struggles for sure that I've went through that you guys have went through that would help them right
so but you you do have to believe it's possible the howls or the mechanisms or
the the you know day-to-day techniques you can learn that but you won't even try you
won't even take action on those things unless you believe that it's possible and so
what are your guys's um I kind of rambled there for a minute but I was curious oh I like it man like
listening to it it's nice to hear hear other perspectives like to hear from someone else other than other people
usually ask us and you know we're usually the ones telling so it's it's very refreshing man right and it just
it's it's crazy that I just actually listen to start with why twice and then
no uh fine yeah and then now I'm listening to find your why and that's kind of what it's about it's about
mindset right and it's not only in business you know everyone
starts with sometimes you don't know your why but without understanding it you don't know exactly what you're
working for and it's not like you were saying it's not a matter of the house and what's it's what are you doing this
for and then all that can fall in place later as long as you're striving for that goal the entire time everything
else can be learned and that's pretty much what what that book is about does it talk about that
one of the things I've learned is you'll get a certain I when I started my
company I just want to make some money I thought Bugattis were on their way you
know I should have I should have uh I had Ed
back then but my my thought I just wonder make money you know I thought I
could make a bunch more money that I made laying floors for somebody else and and
I was Employee installer so uh you know I I did side jobs and some some sub work
but I worked basically most of my time as a employee installer and I just
figured I just wanted money and that'll get you a certain length in business that'll get you a
certain uh you know uh distance down the road
but at some point it's not enough money is not gonna be a an enough driver
because you get to the point and I got there where I thought I made it I mean I
made we did two million dollars one year in the third year we're in business 2.4
million and I thought we had made it and it was more money than I had ever seen
or uh certainly ever you know produced of
course that's Revenue not profit so so I'm clear with everybody I didn't make
2.4 million we just our revenues were 2.4 but we were pretty lean we were only
weren't still at the time we had a little bitty office and subbed out to a warehouse place the
warehouse and our guys would go pick stuff up there um at a United Warehouse
and uh but my point here is that that's it I mean the next year it was real
tough to grow um partially because I had hit that threshold right whether you call it your
ceiling or like Ed kind of puts the thermometer I'd hit the Maxima thermometer the max of my belief system
at the time and I had maxed that sucker out and the
only thing that could happen was either change my belief changed my belief system or cool off and
I cooled off you know and I didn't know any better at the time but hopefully this finds the
one guy that's out there and is either going through or will go through something like that and it's like okay
instead of cooling off let me think and change my belief system right and I
mean let me up my belief that belief system what you just said right there too like uh that happens a lot everybody
plateaus mentally right it happens a lot but instead of cooling off or anything like
that we try not to cool off right we understand that sometimes we have to take a couple steps back in order to take those next five steps forward right
we understand that part um but the using your temperature as a
reference like if we want to hover or we hit it at 70 was our captain and we want to hover at somebody like
know that it's okay to hover at 70 until the rest of it starts making sense to you until you find the path that you
want to go down um because I know that we've Hit That 70 degree marker a few times right
um and we we've intentionally went back down to 50 um on our own and we unintentionally
went back down to 50 honor um with the business too but it was always
is the learning curve right we've learned our lessons from it we learned that hey we made a couple choices that
didn't really work out um Let me let me ask you a question let me challenge you a little bit yeah when
you said that you uh caught off to 50 on your own do you
think you really cool off to 50 on your own or was was there fear or things that
made you think that if we keep pushing we're going to fail and so let's let's bring it back down a few notches I think
it was at that point where you see that threshold and it's like
if we keep on pushing this hard without having the right systems in place
it's gonna Crash and Burn yes so it's like you you can see kind of see that writing on the wall where it's like if
we we can you know we can keep on pushing but eventually something's gonna happen and it's we're
not going to have anything in place to mitigate what just happened and then we're gonna be you know pushing
ourselves that much further behind so what can we do now in order to kind of
you know take your foot off the gas for a little bit and then get something in place so that way when
when you do hit that gas again it's gonna go even further than you could have if you would have just kept
your gas on the foot on the gas in the first place yeah so you know the reason
I asked that is because you you decided to do less revenue or to
pull back your company but that doesn't necessarily mean you cooled off your temperature gauge you were strategically
planning then at that point call it approaching the hurdle right yeah yeah you're you're at the
hurdle you just okay all of a sudden the hurdles right here
and you're like I've got to take at least a couple steps back to get a run and start to clear this sucker
so you just approach the hurdle and you're like okay strategically the best thing to do is
take a couple steps back but I believe I can clear the hurdle
yeah I guess you're right I just got to take a couple steps back get get a little bit of run and start get two to
three steps behind me and and then I can clear that sucker yeah we never really
changed our um we never really changed the goal but you're right that's that's a way better way to put it who never changed the goal
in the next Milestone we were trying to achieve we just knew that at that moment with the Kurds that we
had that wasn't going to work to achieve that so
so I think like a while ago you were talking about you know when you first started money money money how can I make
money Monday money and then there comes a point and what you're doing that you realize it's
like sometimes you have to realize that money is just the byproduct of your main goal
yeah yeah providing value well that's where you finding your why is that that's the
piece that can Elevate you to the next step in belief that's what brings the
belief a strong why like whatever that is for each individual person
um you know that's stronger than money is the byproduct of doing providing value
to the marketplace that's it that's the bottom line right that's that's how someone shows
you appreciation for bringing something of value to them outside of that
um if money didn't work that way it'd be pretty worthless right so the you know
the value that you provide to the marketplace is why you get money but your why is how you break through the
ceilings or move your temperature gauge up that's that's where you get your
belief that's where you get the gumption to believe that you can do something like build the best flooring company in
Michigan but then wait a second maybe I'll build the best flooring company in the entire Midwest you know or uh the
most Innovative flooring company or I'm going to try I'm going to change the
installation you know industry or a lot of the things that you guys have started
to tackle has come from a bigger why than and and money is just on the side
you know that it comes from providing value and a lot of times you've got to deposit that penny Bank longer than
you'd like before that value turns into money but you know
go Carrera for me has certainly been [Laughter]
we advocate for you all the time man just so you know like I just wish people would understand like
it's so hard so hard for the installers not to understand I'm like when we're explaining to we're not trying to sell
them something we're trying to help them and it's because of the why right like like you said I needed money that's why
I started working once I started working you know his I it wasn't no longer about the money as
I was making friends that's why I was working and then then it was like oh now I can buy things for myself now I could
do more things and everybody's wide my why changed again when like it evolved when my son was born my wife
changed yeah there's one of our biggest whys for most
most people most men the big wise family
you know um you know trying to provide something a better experience for your children
than what you may have gotten um that's a huge why and then sometimes
you you maybe you grew up great you want to emulate and at least meet the the experience you had but you want to do
maybe spend more time than you know it's really rare to have uh I I know my kids
like I gave them a way better life like multitudes better than I was given but I
was somewhat absent you know I mean there was a cost to pay there was a price to pay for that and
you know what I'm saying so I'm sure they you know my my daughter in particular well in particular she's the
only one with kids now thank goodness but uh you know really values the time
with her children you know and that's a big piece probably trying to a part of that is like that's
you can't buy that back she realizes something that I was going for a different why at the time
um it's it's uh the one thing that always
stays in my mind when I'm trying to uh take myself to the next level is
becoming the person that I'm gonna have to be to
achieve the success that I want right like become the person first
and then so that you're ready for that success and that that helps a lot too
and there's a lot of different concepts that we've talked about here whether it's keeping the positive mindset
realizing that your reticular activating system actually brings more to you of what you think about the most
um or finding your why and and realizing that money is just a byproduct of the
value you you provide or in this instance is becoming the man that
I have to become to get the success that I want to get
like you don't just have that next level success in the old you the old you is
not prepared that's why lottery winners like 90 of them go broke yeah no matter how much
money they win fellas too
it you know you don't you don't believe you deserve it you've got to probably never see me again
you wouldn't come down to Wichita and see us yeah yeah he probably jumped on your private jet and come down and say
hi be a zoom I'm gonna be a zoom from the Bahamas from my mansion somewhere and I
don't I would not move to the Bahamas yeah I forgot about your experience noted
why definitely has a lot to
do on track with the wire you everybody your your why is going to evolve it's
going to change right like I I when we were talking I just pictured my why as a pyramid right like my initial y was down
here at the bottom point of my pyramid but then it then it evolves into many different whys and at the end of my life
I know that it's all going to tie right back to that same why like it's all going to tie together and um
thing is all right here's an interesting concept because you you talked about the end of your life but
one of the concepts is uh that when you die
and you go to heaven that you meet the you you were meant to be
now you don't have to be um uh believe in heaven or hell and all
this to get the concept the concept is like you were you what your potential is
someday you're either gonna have the feeling of regret or
achievement to that potential like are you are you pushing yourself enough
so sometimes we get scared and and we're scared to grow into pain
you know if we know that next level is going to be very painful then we're scared to grow into pain in fact some
experts will say that you you you will self-sabotage to not grow into pain
like it does make sense like I'm gonna do something to purposely go into a pain
line you know uh but a lot of times it's your why that'll get you plow
through that pain line and then your your ability to execute and I won't get
off the fact that we have to act and execute you know you have to do things with that belief with that mindset that
you can achieve it um the very first you know whether you believe you can or you believe you can't
you're right remember that that's one of the best sayings ever in that that many words you
know you gotta stay with emotion too you believe you can do it you're right
and you believe that you can't you're also right yes like I say that to my
kids all the time and I I mean they're kids they're 10 and my girls are six and I know that
in one ear and out the other right no it matters that's going to stick one time
it's going to stick and it's gonna well as it's it's almost like a crop duster as it's flying through it's just leaving
a little bit of stuff each time I hope so I hope so
um and it does it does suck to sound like so cliche and and and do that but
it's so true what do you do to to
um for your mental awareness and your mental peace to to make sure that you
keep on track I mean I have the tendency to overload myself Daniel does too like I don't
lately my outlet since uh this is my first official year not coaching not
having my a team of my own and traveling uh my outlet unfortunately is going to
be I mean unfortunately for my kids it's going to be their sports right like that's gonna be my outlet
and hanging out with my kid or doing that um that's fortunate for me I'm happy to be
able to do that but it's unfortunate from now because they're going to hear me accustomed better but
um not at my six-year-olds though I won't do that out loud yeah
I I think um well you're reaffirming your why every
time you go there every time you're coaching you know so I I think you know
for me realizing that I've been real selfish in my life
you know I've I've built most of what I've built for me or for my ego or to
give my kids a better life but you know there's there's some good in there but a lot of it was built on
you know my my ego um now I'm really going through this
drudgery of working on Paul to uh
to do to serve other people to get better and to care about other people
and to make a difference in other people's lives and not just my own
I was pretty selfish maybe that's warranted because I I mean if I if I
took an hour to tell you about my life you might uh you you could probably
understand at least but have you have you you know brings to to
thought the movie have you guys seen that movie Bruce Almighty yeah when God
goes back to him is like you've had my powers for over a week and what have you done he's like
yeah I'm right at a few wrongs of my own life okay you know and he got back he
boy he went and got you know the girl that he you know
at some point um guess what I'm saying is your your reasoning and your whys and your belief
systems kind of change as you go [Music] um and it's
it's still trying I tried to keep my first off
goals are like Paramount we've we've had a goal setting podcast before I think
that kind of keeps the target out in front of you where you you have something to aim at on the hard days
um you know clearing your mind and and giving yourself a break
uh from the day-to-day just barrage that
happens in business and then rewarding yourself maybe you
know coaching your kids um is very rewarding for you but find ways
to reward yourself it doesn't have to be material or it could be material you know there's been times where I'm like I
want this XYZ well if I want that you know frankly I could probably go buy
it right now but I forced myself to almost earn it like yeah well if I do
this this and that like these three things and it's not even tied to money A lot of times like if I wanted to get a
new I'm getting ready to for the first time in 25 years or 30 years probably uh
I'm not gonna have a truck I'm getting rid of my truck and I'm gonna drive a car
and well I'm like you're gonna let like just park your truck somewhere right no
well I have a half dozen at the office that I can use at any point so I'm gonna
it's gonna be one of the office trucks truck look I just had to get rid of my
truck too oh well you didn't have to do that to get a new car dude call me next time I'll tell
you how to get a new one without doing that unfortunately the parts and stuff are
are so expensive I don't I don't even know if they're they'll total it I don't think it's that much damage wow that
didn't look good no but I'm probably gonna have to wait like six months so in order to get it back wow so what
happened someone was making a right-hand turn and changed their mind at the last second
when I was right there yikes oh when you tell me that all I can think of is first
thing big brother said this was uh well first thing was is everybody okay yeah like it was
uh so it's your fault you're just telling me it's your fault there's a picture of the them slowing down like
because I've done it slowed down like oh no never mind you jump in but me as the person behind
I'm timing it out I've already let my foot off of the brake I'm back on the accelerator because they're going to be
turning and I'm going to be clear yeah dude the the only accident I've
been in is the is the same thing someone was getting going I thought they
were going to continue to finish their right hand turn so I looked and there was no one coming so I hit the gases my
eyes were off and they just stopped gave him one of them
nobody got totaled but yeah so I forget where we were at with
that you're gonna get you're the first time in your life oh yeah so I'm gonna buy a car I I decided I'm gonna buy a
car but this time I decided I'm not just gonna go buy it I'm gonna put some parameters on myself that I can go buy
this car that I I as cars go you know it's it's kind of funny since I've never bought I
I cannot remember buying a car other than for my wife
so this is where the Bugatti comes in no I'm looking at an Audi S7 and
um right what's that yeah it's manual oh yeah
yeah uh well no this is automatic sorry I'm not gonna uh Drive every day on a manual
now now I drive uh my toys Emmanuel and I learned on a manual so I think that's
a valuable lesson make sure your kids learn how to drive that uh but
um the point is I'm just gonna I'm just using it as a reward system
I'm trying this out instead of just going and buying the car I I put a couple of small goals in my head like do
this and do that and do this and Achieve these few things uh and it's not dollar for dollar it's not like okay go make
you know 85 000 and then you can go buy the car that's not what I'm doing I'm just trying to give myself a couple of
little kicks in the butt that I need on a couple of items and if I get those items done some stuff that uh Paul
Stewart's procrastinated on uh you know I go buy the car so it's kind of like what I do with the
kit like when I grew up or when my kids are growing up is Dad like what's the thing V bucks now like that can I get
some v-bucks well you're asking me for something but you haven't shown me anything like
show me something and then you can get rewarded right with the button you're doing that for yourself no you know what
that's actually a good idea the point to that is you know we got we have talked
on this podcast about rewarding your employees and showing them appreciation but how often do we do it for ourselves
so that's really where that was going like you guys reward your employees we
reward our employees you you want to make it like any business coach I
shouldn't say any but a lot of good business coaches will you know tell you to make sure your team knows that you
appreciate them to show appreciation right and uh reward your team but also
you know that appreciation piece so how often do you do that for yourself you know care about you too and that's
that's part of the mindset of of belief and and um achievement is we we need to reward
ourselves a little bit too um so just you know I I think that is
kind of where my mind is at right now on that uh particular item
um we'll see how it works out and and hopefully I uh if I knock it out of the
park I'll get the car sooner than later and then if if I if I procrastinate any longer then it might you know be a few
few more months down the road but um yeah so
just to recap real quick I cannot believe in hours went by jeez yeah 54
minutes yeah can you believe that wow
um so we've talked about keep it in a positive mindset
understanding that your reticular activating system does bring more into
your life more uh trying to affirm what your conscious minds thinking it's gonna
it's gonna bring more of that to re uh to reaffirm yourself that's its job
and we talked about probably one of the biggest things is your why and so I'm glad you brought that up Daniel what you
know we got another five minutes here to finish up sometimes we'd just close it out right here but I'm curious
what is your favorite kind of insight from that book because I want to read it
um it's just how why is the why so important
so he talks a lot about like apple and Steve Jobs and if you have watched that
the Steve Jobs movie with Ashton Kutcher at all it kind of uh what he wrote kind of you you see play
out in the movie and in Steve's life it's he had an idea in his head that he wanted to get you know this user
interface that everyone can use when you really think about it when they they brought the compute the the Apple what
was it the Apple One Macintosh this was before the Macintosh they they you know they they were like
his mindset was everyone needs one of these and no one could see it because it
wasn't a thing at the time but his mind wasn't set like right now his mind is you know
was already 20 years in the future and it's essentially that it's you know what what
do you do why are you doing what you're doing and you know in our case we've
always preached you know the value that our installations bring to people
and never never be hearing from that it's
it's what we're there to do every single day and there's going to be people that
don't share that mindset and that's 100 fine because you know he kind of got
into apple and Microsoft where it was Apple was based on you know the the
quality of the The Experience where Microsoft was you know as the software they they both
had kind of the same goal but that's why Steve Jobs wasn't like anyone
can use this he was I'm gonna perfect this and it's going to be its own ecosystem as opposed to Microsoft where
everyone can use it and you know he even explained it himself to where he said um
he was a fan of Apple for a long time even though he never owned an apple just
because what the company stood for and it's for me it's um that's why you
know our our slogan is setting the standard one installation at a time it's I'm not I'm
not going there to um essentially practice on your stuff
that's why we do practice here because I'm trying to to up that level in every single thing that I do so if I'm you
know um we had a meeting with um Nora by interface you know last week and
he he said it right it's like we're there to to do the best job
because even if someone can't necessarily afford
you know that best job or or what some people would say you
know they can't afford gold it's if they can only afford bronze that is their
gold so they deserve the same type of installation that you would if
you were installing that gold product even though it's not necessarily that gold product you know one
not everyone is on that same level but it's that's their livelihood that's
their investment that's their investment that's what they could afford that is I gotta give you props that's a wonderful
thought It's a Wonderful thought that that just because they can afford what the market
calls bronze that is their gold that's a wonderful thought and and one
that every damn installer should think keep on the top of their mind when you're out installing it right and still
on a a rag or a 80 a yard wool
Kudos guys that's an awesome thought and I think that that's you know a big
takeaway from there it was it was a that it sucks that it came out like that uh
the the goal that their bronze is the bronze is their gold but what it did was it opened up our values and it it
actually made we lost the relationship off of this conversation because we walked away from the job but that wasn't
it was it was my I felt it was safer for me save her for the crew and it was our choice but it also
um solidified what our values were right right and you know it made us like the
rep was asking us why we didn't do work for a certain company and the best explanation that I can come up
with is we don't share the same values yeah and that's okay they're gonna do their thing we're gonna do ours but I'm
not gonna sacrifice my values to make someone else happy because that only
deteriorates what we stand for so that and that
that's the big thing right it's people are going to have different values people are going to have their own whys the thing is is that you stick
with your why and the people that you want to attract you will yes and the people that you don't want to you won't
yeah that's right there kind of encompasses what we were just
talking about and and there's a great saying that says uh you know uh you do
no service to the World by dimming your light um
let me see if I can say this right by dimming your light for the comfort of
others like because you shine too bright uh and it may it may make other people
go uncomfortable um you're not doing the world any service
by you dimming your light down to their standards uh you know keep your light
bright and you'll attract those people who who have that and you know I know
we're running over a little bit another thought to me is that this also all
equates to who you surround yourself with and who you hang out with you know they they
say the the you're the sum of the the five people you hang out with like
that's that's who you are uh a lot of a lot of people will say
show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are I can tell you who you are by your five closest friends or five
closest people friends in particular because you get to pick them family you know what's the saying you
can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your family or something like that
or kick your butt whatever yeah you can pick your butt and you can pick your nose you can't pick your family
um yeah what a great discussion I love that last thought there man yeah and the other thing that I've been
doing lately too is because we're focused on mindset is realizing that
that you can change right and you don't know everything so I I watched um a tick
tock because you know everyone's got a tick tock these days and you actually
learn quite a bit of stuff on there and there was a motivational speaker on there that
um he said that he was 20 years old he just got done with his you know one of one of his conferences got his first
Standing Ovation from his you know his peers and then got into a car accident
and the doctors told him that he was never gonna walk again and he said it was kind of from that
moment on it was I'm just gonna be the happiest person that I can
regardless of the circumstances because I'm still alive and you know his doctors were worried about him and you know
approached his parents like this is going to come out in some way somehow he's gonna end up you know sabotaging
himself but it's really that mindset thing he said you know his dad talked to
him and he was like I thought you knew me better than that so he explained it like if something happens and there's no way
that you can change the outcome you have five minutes to be angry and then you got to be done
so I I've been trying to implement that and it's really hard to change but
you know that comes with practice too so also dude it's a muscle man you got got to do that so I've been trying to uh
you gotta let some things go in order to move forward
yeah shedding a scan of your old self uh on a on a big level like that is
it's hard man it's hard to let go of that comfort of who you are and operate
in the same you know and operate in a different way uh or
think in a different way but if something's tugging at you to do something else to do something greater
to go to the next level or go a different direction or whatever if
something's tugging at you it's it's hard to also not listen to that so you get this conflict in yourself where it's
like I I know I can do more you know I know I can be more helpful to
people or I know I can grow the company um to my dreams uh but
at the same time you it requires change it requires a new belief in yourself and
and almost like a snake shouldn't it's it's old skin to grow you know that's
why they shed it they have to they they can't grow with the old skin on so they shut it off to a
new a new set if we can do that and remind ourselves and I like the thought
that like give yourself five minutes to be pissed off but then after that
back back at it I got it and that's what Eduardo says right here he says the old you has to die to make room for the new
you but like you said it doesn't necessarily you don't necessarily have to die you just have to grow
um I know the saying and and not to uh disagree with Eduardo at all but I I
think you're right I think it's more about growing because you got a good foundation even if you
had a rough upbringing or maybe didn't do all the right things like I didn't
um you you there's still a lot of good there to build off of don't throw the baby out with the bath water the good
stuff to just grow build that and kind of shed the the old some of that old
um the the bad stuff the stuff that's keeping you down the stuff that's
weighing you down your past almost said the F-bomb forgive yourself
like forgive yourself you know freaking forgive yourself for some stuff just to
go off Eduardo's thing right there is um it and that kind of hits home for me too right is
the old me didn't die to me right the old me is still there the old me died to
everyone else who knew they owed me yeah that's a good point perception right yeah that's is Diet but no that's still
me but that's why I'm who I am today that's why we have the the goals that's
why we have the wise that's why we try to stay focused to a certain extent obviously you gotta try to maintain
Focus and the only reason we keep pushing forward rightly I keep pushing forward
and luckily we got I got Daniel to bounce uh ideas off he bounces ideas off me but I've got a Daniel too yeah
everyone needs a Daniel episode yeah get yourself a Daniel
that's another thing put it well this is a great episode though I
liked it I liked it too yeah
[Music] well we're we're uh we're just we're
right there um I know that we've went over and you know it's such a fascinating topic and
when you start talking about the application of all this stuff um I know it can seem like
you know it doesn't apply to you and I'm talking to the audience and and people who will consume this content elsewhere
is you know the the Journey of self-discovery and
personal development and mindset is it's a lifelong thing so you're signing up
for a long time um so don't get discouraged
um and you know as as always if you ever want to chat with one of us you know the
way to get a hold of us uh We've we've told you guys our emails and we're
on here every week feel free to jump on and and uh participate I will say
social media yeah we're on social on all the all both of our channels so
um and if you do like this you're watching it on whatever medium you know consider
giving us a like or a subscribe um you know
I see this on YouTube all the time smash that like button well you know or gently
rub the light button I don't care you know give us some likes give us some love so and then next week we gotta
start putting this out there we're going to be giving this this guy away that's next week I believe all right
everybody well it is now yeah Ashland just confirmed next week Apple watch so if
you're watching this on YouTube or something you better tune in live next week
that could be yours all right guys man I I enjoyed the yeah it's just a box it'll
hold a necklace I enjoyed this immensely I I feel like I
could keep going for another 30 minutes but uh then people's gonna see an hour and a half uh uh episode on YouTube and
not even click on it so all right what to Circle back and do some more of this
I'm gonna we're gonna have to have Ashlyn go through and just cut up the the interesting parts and start posting
them on uh Facebook yeah tick tocks tick tocks we need some stick talk action
going all right guys man I love you dudes I enjoyed this so much and I appreciate
you guys uh participating in you I always you always bring something that's
a nugget that I get to take away so very selfishly I'm very grateful and and our
audience loves it and and when you were talking earlier I was downloading more books
he wasn't paying attention be a consummate learner that's a good way to be for sure anybody out there um
next week we will have the 800 number out for everyone who needs to rent the annual for a day
um Daniel um we'll get that active I'll throw my Daniel on there too
oh he was one of them all right hey brother I'll see you at
fcica will you be there too Daniel no I won't I will be here okay
just like last last time last FCI CA like every time
well we'll see you there and uh we'll be shooting from there next week so
I'm actually a panelist for one of the panels uh this this go around so he'll have these Fleet microphones for you
guys to use I'm running a uh wall one of one of the wall the wall tile 101 panel
are you yeah I better learn something I'm gonna go sit in there I'm gonna be a Heckler for sure
[Laughter] all right guys signing out we'll talk to
you next week [Music] see you in Tucson brother all right see
ya bye guys
The Huddle - Episode 39 - Estimating 101
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose are joined by Kathy Case from Quantify to cover the ins and outs of estimating. Kathy offers third-party estimating services and is well-versed in softwares to help your company. Spoiler alert . . . we all LOVE MEASURE SQUARE!
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome to the Huddle uh join me this week uh we got a special episode but
joining you as always is Daniel with preferred flooring and I would say
always Jose but it's he's a little bit like me it's not always but he is the
best so uh and then we have Kathy case uh joining us today to discuss uh
estimating so maybe um you've got a small company or a big
company it really doesn't matter we use a lot of these core principles in our
business to make sure that we're checking the boxes you know kind of dot
in the eyes and crossing the t's a lot of you may or may not know that
estimating can be a service that you can um you know hire out to a third party
and I happen to know Kathy uh in this regard and I thought it'd be cool if she
came on and kind of uh gave us a few tips
um maybe it's software tips on which software she um thinks is the best uh for a beginner
um and then which one's kind of intermediate and so on uh and then also I'll just go over with uh me and Daniel
discussing you know some of the tricks of the trade so to speak
um and what you really want to do and what you do not so Kathy welcome
to the huddle appreciate it thanks for having me here would you mind telling us just a little
bit about yourself um where you when did you get into flooring that's
always a great question to ask somebody um I think we were still using stones
and chisels with tablets [Music] I started in 1979 uh legitimately I'm
Third Generation in the industry so I was on my first project at the age of six watching Terrazzo go in
um I grew up on the ceramic tile side of the business my grandfather having started the business in 1923 and
um in 1985 I went from running my first project in May to running 50 Union
installers by September when my dad passed away unexpectedly
and it it gave me a lot of Education I was fortunate to have a lot of people
step up and and help Mentor me and so for me at this point I tried to do the
same for others I've worked in the Ceramics tile industry as a beginning point but I've
also worked for flooring contractors as well having done everything from installing estimating project management
sales and executive Management in 2009 I
switched my focus to estimating after having been a member of the construction specifications Institute
during that time I found talking directly with spec writers that
it really wasn't their fault that the specs were so bad they weren't given the time to be able to do the research and
so I recognized the importance of the estimating role for a company and that's
why I switched to estimating after working for several prominent
flooring contractors in 2019 I opened up the service with the intention of being
an emergency resource so that when a company was overwhelmed with work or
they were short staffed that they'd have a resource so that they didn't miss the opportunity to serve their client
after three months into the business we started having people ask us for full-time estimators so we do offer
service either way that's a awesome story six years old watching
Terrazzo go in and then you fast forward to uh you know your your dad passing away
and you happen to take over the Helm of 50 Union installers that's that does speak volumes to the team you
had and um and then so when you decided to get into the estimating or kind of
you know Branch off into estimating as a service
you said that you were looking to just pick up some some uh downtime for
companies right time of need where what do you think is the biggest
change that had to happen for companies to feel comfortable using a third party
well I have to tell you the first thing is people feeling comfortable having estimating not done in the office and I
think covid was a huge turning point for that people were used to having everybody
right there they wanted their sales people and their support team their project managers to be able to walk
right up to an estimator and get their answers on the spot I will tell you when
I ran teams of estimators I did not allow that to happen it's one of the
greatest risks in making mistakes for an estimator to stop them in the middle of what they're doing and not have a really
cleanly defined stopping point to go back to once they've changed their focus
besides the fact that their mind is in that project and trying to switch into your project can take some time for that
mental focus to get back into what you're asking so that can be a challenge
in and of itself there's your first nugget guys don't interrupt the estimators when they're estimating
um that's a I happen to agree with you I know that some some offices are a little
louder our estimate are actually put on the noise canceling headphones because we're in an open Office setting and be
in the zone yeah he's got to get in the zone uh hey Daniel do you guys up there who
does your the main part of your estimating uh it depends on the contractor so
we all handle our our own contractors so if if I'm if we're getting bids
through the contractor that that I handle I'll do a majority of the estimating um as far as like the takeoffs and stuff
like that it's a team effort whoever doesn't have anything going at a particular time and
we've actually talked to Kathy about onboarding with her as well it's just we need to we need to
pull the trigger because she said one thing at uh at ties this last time that
I'll never forget because I you know I went up introduced and we're talking I was like man I hope that you know I hope
one day that we'd be able to afford you and she looked me in the eyes and she said you can't afford not to hire me I
said that's right like best takeaway from from that
right there and I was like I'm gonna I'm actually gonna use that for when people ask me to like oh you're you're
expensive I can't afford to hire you you can't afford not to hire me yeah I think it's the same mindset that we have you
know as installers is is is that really it's I'm the best at what I do you can
go ahead and keep on struggling or you can hire me right yeah
so when you guys um I'm gonna start from the beginning just
I know a lot of uh the audience is likely uh knows this part but obviously
most of it starts with some type of an invitation to bid um there's
even that first step for our systems and processes that you can use to help keep
yourself streamlined there's services like building connected we use just a
bid calendar in Excel for a long time and that works just fine as signing your
jobs and know who's working on what and management of all your bid invitations
uh as you get bigger uh we decided to actually have a
coordinator that does nothing but that that part manage the bid invites and assign estimators to uh to bid the job
or does it go to uh quantify with Kathy and have have a takeout perform there so
management of those is like that's step one when you start getting into uh
the actual set of drawings and specifications this seems uh Elementary
too but I would say that one of the biggest mistakes I've witnessed with
estimators is not starting with the product and the specification and really
knowing what you're going to get ready to take off I've watched many of them just open up a set of drawings go to the
finished schedule and start just going um so what's your thought on that
approach it seems to me um it leaves a lot of room for error
I'd agree with you with our team they're required to go through the full set of
documents and call out all the drawings all the the details the specifications
that are specific to the scope of work so that they're familiar with that information especially in the day of
electronic drawings it's not like the days of old when I started where you could just flip a page real quick I do
remember that time I used to manage it'll take Austin run into the blueprint company to pick up drawings that got
emailed to them from some GC we got it so much better now and it's
it's yeah it takes a long time I still know some people that would rather do it on paper and then it's like
the the amount of time you spend just learning software and the amount of time you save later on or like we say like
just hire someone out like hire cat and then it just save saves all that time
what was uh what was your comment on that Kathy
about just kind of jumping into a set of a finish schedule on a drawing and just going for the takeoff you were yeah I've
seen that happen as well and the tough thing is that you're not really aware of those details as much so it you can miss
something when you're rushing through to that point if you're doing a TI project it's carpetile and base and resilient
flooring it's not that big a deal but when you're talking about a school or a hospital or Assisted Living you really
want to know those details it's time consuming to have to go back and change things after you've already
done it one way and you actually see hopefully you're seeing those details at
some point in the review yeah but not always not all estimators go through the full set of drawings and that's
definitely a problem because too many companies are relying on the estimator to really know the documents
would you say it's really beneficial on a for a flooring project and let's say
it's a um it's a Remy model so you have a demo
set and you have your architectural drawings do you guys kind of follow uh
the the um the school of thought that all the architectural drawings apply or do you
only look at the things that are relevant to the flooring piece the tough thing is demo drawings often
have scope of work for the flooring contractor that you won't find in the architectural drawings something as
simple as the responsibility of the demo itself will be identified more likely in those demo drawings or the scope of work
for what's being demoed in the existing area you can't assume that everything is
being demoed and hopefully it's going to give you an idea of what the material is that's existing Now versus you know what
you're going to be dealing with for the new finishes it's key for understanding the installation process and the
materials that you're going to need to be able to install that finished product it would be awesome if Architects
actually put on there the existing material that's in the space all it usually says for us is match existing
match type of stuff they're doing a partial Renault
um that's where that information is typically they don't muddle up the floor
plan as much it's certainly in there I mean Architects are like you know children they have they all have their
own personality and how they approach things and how they present things
um and it's but in general it's a good idea to make sure you're reviewing your
demo drawings and the um almost the full battery of architectural
drawings at least get familiar with the things outside of your finished floor plan and your elevations uh that's
that's where when I first started estimating that's all I cared about where's the finished floor plan where's the elevation and then you figure out
quickly that finished floor plan has a different material than what's in the specifications and yeah so there's a
go ahead Kathy yeah I just wanted to point out that when it comes to ceramic tile you have to take it a step further
oftentimes you need to go to the structural plans or the plumbing plans structural if there's a recess for a mud
floor to know what the extent is and how deep that recess is and the plumbing
plans to understand what's happening in shower pans or any kind of gutters things like that so when it comes to
ceramic you have to take it the extra step yeah that's a good point there's there's a lot more information that you
have to figure out when it comes to you know mud setting uh showers and where
the plumbing yeah you know I've even found it helpful from uh
identifying the um the uh wall
mounted toilets those things are way harder to cut
around than a hole in a floor and so we started like really looking for those
because they can be a real pain you got to get the best way to do it is get a template from the plumber so that you
can mark it out but it's it's a it's kind of a pain compared to just cutting around a hole in a floor and so it's
even that kind of stuff you see on the plumbing drawings that you don't see uh the pattern of that uh wall mounted
toilet on it even a set of elevation sometimes so so we're always looking for the trench
plan people don't think that's a lot of prep
goes on them but takes a lot of prep yeah ceramic tile now is combining the actual
drains into the tile work as well and you also have those pre-form shower fans
that depending on where the the drain is located or what the type of the grain is the shower pan has a huge cost
difference yeah so that's another when you need to be looking at those Plumbing plans
yeah and so uh nugget number two is like really review the drawings try to know
what you're looking for um understand what products you're looking at uh just a few pitfalls I
remember when I sat at uh you know a drawing table all the time
with stuff like them calling out bullnose um on a series that doesn't make
bullnose and then uh I actually one time had to go pay to have it made
uh because I didn't bring it up and they didn't care that the that tile did not
come with a bullnose they asked for it and they knew that they can be made after market and that's what they made
me do so it's stuff like that where you can just cost yourself
um so being real detailed and getting to know there's a lot today's a lot better I mean we just kind of got I'd say 80
percent through an integration with measure square spec Intel and structure
which is our kind of software stack at Stewart Associates and so there's a lot
more tools today like spec and tell um that can really give you the information about that that flooring the
tile whatever it is so we got getting through the drawings
um you know and and really reviewing those what is um what's our next step and I know that
we could go for two hours on this but just so we stepped through the process of best practices here what's what would
our next step be in your one of your guys's Minds actually decide if the project is for
you um that's one of the biggest things like uh
you get so many that come across you know and it's like look at the print read the manual is
this project for me and you have to decide that and say no like um that I think that's one of the
big things is realize that when you do get you know a request for proposal that
there's an option there to say no and these companies are counting on you to either accept it or not so that way they
know if they need to find someone else yeah good nugget there is tell them though if they've sent you directly a
invitation to bed and you didn't find it all one of the bid boards online bid Boards out of respect and letting them
know that you're you do not plan on bidding the project uh that that's a good point too I didn't even think about
that I got to give you some props bro like you decide whether or not you want to bid it so let's assume we made that
decision we want to bid the project um what's the next what's your guys's next
kind of major step I think one of the things you need to do
if you've already gone through the drawings and looked at all the details is really understand those details and
see where the conflicts are I'm not saying if there's conflicts I'm saying where they are because they're gonna
exist no matter at what level and that's the time you want to try to get your questions going because there's usually
RFI deadlines and even if there aren't you want to give your customer the GC or
the end user the time to be able to do their research when you're seeing the conflicts I would suggest that as you're
proposing them you give enough information drawing details
um where you know if you're seeing a conflict between two different pieces of information you're listing both of those
pieces of information and provide a potential solution if you just go to
them with a problem in their mind they have to start at square one but if you've given them a potential solution
then they're starting to think about whether that solution is something that they agree with and it's easier for them
to process what they really want to do whether it's your choice or it's some
version or something totally different it just tends to will with an architect too
you do you definitely do but I it just speeds the process Along by proposing a
solution I I skipped over a piece how long before
bit date do you think your standard uh let's just call it your your
let's use something that I think a lot of people can relate to like a four-story Courtyard by Marriott don't
uh consider all the uh economies at scale that you get because
you probably bid a hundred of them but let's just say it's your first Courtyard it's a project I think people can image
in their head how long do you think now that we have this timeline for the
rfis you know because just to build on what Kathy said these rfis typically
it's seven days before bids when they're due some of it'll go to three and some
don't state but that means you got to be planning which is what I'm building on here is planning out your estimating
um but how long would you say Kathy I'd love your input to Daniel on a on say a
four story standard Courtyard by Marriott when should you start your uh
estimating process the sooner the better because it does
give you the time to ask the questions I mean ultimately when you're looking at
materials hopefully one of the other steps that you're doing in this process is reaching out to the manufacturer that
should be in the part that Daniel was talking about when you're making the decision whether or not to go ahead with
the project but you want to have an idea of how long it will take for you to get
the pricing back from the manufacturers they just about all the time now want quantities before they're going to give
you pricing so if it's going to be something that they can turn around in a few hours a few days you need to know that to be
planning your time appropriately from the pricing perspective
yeah I would agree that this the sooner the better right because uh
typically with the the bids that we've been getting your your timeline is not
very much so we get you know one or two weeks to do it and you gotta
figure that at least two of those days you're going to be waiting on reps right depends on what rep some of them answer
you right away some of them you have to bug them like two or three times two or three days in a row
and that that's the big thing what Kathy said is they want quantities so
sometimes you know when it's a a super fast track project like sometimes they'll email and say hey we didn't get
anyone to give us numbers for this will you just help us out real quick the bid is due tomorrow so I'll get right into
the emails with the Reps and saying this is the material this is the architect I don't have quantities yet as soon as I
get them I'll let you know I just need the price yeah I found with reps that if you can
get close so I do I'll use bluebeam
um and maybe Ashland can uh send post links
on our social for the for quantify and some of the um other uh softwares and services that
we use so but um I use bluebeam as a PDF reader and
measurer to get what I call Common Sense takeoff I'll take off an entire floor and then take off a
couple of the the bathrooms and then just do the the the the math just
obviously not as a full takeoff but just to give them close numbers if you're within a couple
hundred yards it's not going to make a big difference on your project but um I guess
without a a for sure time frame we've always tried to use eight days on like
a 45 50 60 000 foot project
um day one get in get your of at least alert your reps that you're
going to be needing pricing and some of them will send it to you actually without quantities and and but shoot a
quick email you know we getting ready I think pretty late in the in the game
here seven eight days before the bid is due um gives a couple of days to get pricing
and your rfis can be running at the same time but then you still need to build out your spreadsheet or whatever method
you're using to assemble the numbers which we'll get to next um and then type up professional
proposal and then make sure you have all of the bidding General Contractors or
are you bidding this direct to an owner uh are you bidding it to see them at risk uh what kind of project is it and
that's another value of knowing the the specs early on and getting in there uh
we've had one of our estimators send a bid out to a bunch of GC these that were
actually bidding portions of the job to a much larger GC on a huge project
and thought that all the GCS these three GCS were bidding it when in fact they
were doing like the interior package of the entire building and then this GC was doing all the flat work and still
erection and so it can help you uh get your head wrapped around who you're sending your bid to and make sure you
are um so I I say eight days but that's probably because that's just how we do
it that's a good time frame again thinking of all the parts and pieces that go into
the process because you do have a couple some period of time to analyze the
documents to determine if it is a good opportunity to make your connections then you're going to need a day or two
at least on the estimating side then going ahead and getting your pricing
putting it together if there's any kind of breakouts required God forbid there's
an addendum or some information that's provided or 14 alternates
yes exactly so that that is definitely time consuming as a general rule you
should be allowing yourself at least two to three days to review the estimate put the proposal together and get it out the
door and that's without it being a public job where it's a public bid opening yeah you never want those to be
the last minute because you run the risk I've seen too many times when somebody walked in a minute past closing time and
they missed the opportunity to bid the job even when they're due online like we uh submitted ones who the uh
one of the colleges over here and it says everything has to be submitted online and I went on
there you know two hours early and I keep on trying to submit and it's like just not not doing anything and then by
the time it finally loaded through it was like 10 minutes past and it I was I
was like now what did it go through
um I was able to get a hold of the guy and let him know kind of what was going on while it was happening so he still
let us go through gotcha yeah well that's why I wasn't on the bid uh or on
the Huddle last week or I was on for a short time I should say the week before uh yeah last week
you were on a plane last week I was in the air flying uh from Memphis so uh but
the week before we had let a job slip through the deal uh and this is why
this this is why it's so important and we really drove this home with our
estimator to read your specs and your drawings ahead of time is a
if it's a if it's a public opening the location and the directions on how you
are to submit that bid is all in the specifications number one number two
that's also where you find all your alternates and you know if you have four
or five alternates on a job it's going to be in the specs in section zero one hundred typically
and if you have four or five different ways that they want this bathroom as an
alternate but without the tile in the shower they want a fabricate a chair but then they want another alternate for
just the shower and then you know when you start partnering and piecing this thing together it helps you to do your
take off the way that you're going to have to bid the job so I think all that's important
and we get the job downloaded loaded up
eight days go by Ish we we got our bid back whether we uh Outsource the takeoff
or not we put our bid together um what are some important items that every
bit form should have Daniel I'll let you start because you're
still in the flooring uh bid you know business Kathy does mainly the
estimating at this point but I do want your take on that exclusions you need to let them know
like right up front like inclusions and exclusions because this is what it's included if it's not listed
it's not included this is what's excluded and
we have been into that where we do this and all
they do is look at the number and say yes or no and then once they say yes then you're you're starting to go
through stuff and they're like well when are you going to be here to do this and be like we're not going to do that that's excluded like
I'm not and and that's yeah if you snuck it in your contract that's a problem though
right and that that's where once we you do get to the contract part
read the read everything so that way like um we're doing a job that
it's almost going to the next phase right now but when uh when we we want it and then he started
asking questions and I'm like uh he's like who told you to spec a new
carpet I said you guys did it's it's right there on the bid form even like
it's in the spec it's in the bid form and it and it read like the alternate was to spec a new carpet
for the installation on the entire building instead of just the renovation phase
and he was like I don't understand where you've got just like a new carpet from I said read it again and then you decide
where I got to to spec a new carpet so I guess that that's one of the big
things is if you do read something like that there's no dumb questions right and I
I will drive that like you can you can think of one thing but until you ask them what they meant by it it's all up
to interpretation yeah I think that's a good point be willing to ask the questions
so I I agree that the exclusions and exclusions uh inclusions exclusions are
like the mo one of the most important things I think a properly laid out bid
telling them what you're bidding uh are you bidding per plans and specifications
and then you don't list all your materials you just that when a job has heavy specified
products so it's not on a maybe it's on a finished schedule still but it's it's in the spec book and they've taken the
time to really about every product in the spec book then I'll bid per plans
and specifications and then my exclusions matter right because then they can know when this spec section
oh nine three thousand and that's full volatile
and I exclude you know waterproofing on the first floor or uh you know something
whatever it is and the the real important part is that they have a spec to go see why where
it's excluded from uh when you're just listing your materials and say you've
got Daltile this Daltile that whatever the products are and you're actually listing out products uh and that's a way
to do it as well but you got to be a little more careful with your exclusions I think and that is we added a box on
our bid form that says job specific exclusions and then our standardized these are our exclusions on every job so
and then of course the price who are you addressing it to are you addressing it to all bidding general
contractors are you addressing to the estimating Department I would encourage you as long as you don't have eight or
ten different GCS if you got two or three personalizing hey it's this guy
you know it's Daniel Gonzalez that Brady done and so a little personalization is
is uh uh can go a long way as well but the
main thing is obviously the price and scope and then the uh inclusions exclusions what about you Kathy do you
have any other like add-ons to that that we need to be careful for well first and foremost I want to
comment on your personalizing because I think that is important even if you have eight or ten bidders if two or three of
them are people that you work with regularly make it personal make it addressed directly to them
because they want to feel important quite honestly so I would personalize it
um when it comes to the exclusions and inclusions you want to be real careful to include how you've handled any
conflicts in the drawings if it's not been addressed in an addendum that
becomes part of your contract drawings you can't assume just because you had a conversation with your client that he's
going to remember at the time of award that that's how you had agreed to handle that situation
not only do you want it in there and clearly identified why you have that
um how you've come to that conflict resolution but when you're before you sign the contract you want to be sitting
down with them and making sure that you've reviewed those conflicts and that everybody's in agreement with the way
that you've addressed it so that you're getting that resolved before you're on the job site before it becomes you know
potentially an ugly situation about the cost and who's going to bear that
that's a good point because you don't always get your rfis answered I mean frankly
um particularly if it's coming close to the uh you know end of the bid uh date
but I I know some Architects that just don't answer Subs rfis they make us send
it through uh one of the general contractors and then that general contractor flooring we're the last thing on maybe
not the last name but we're one of the latter things on their mind when they're building a facility and so we send in an
RFI that has to go through the GC because an architect's somewhat of a pompous then you know you may not get
the answer so you have to learn to make intelligent assumptions and then detail
out what that assumption is would you agree that that's kind of what what the
best method is when you when you don't get an answer to your question absolutely and again even if you get an
answer from your client but it's a verbal answer or even an email you want to make sure that you're including it
the only time that I feel it may not be necessary is at least if it's documented
in an addendum or an RFI response yeah you want to protect yourself and you need it for your own reminder as well
because you're going through how many projects not only bidding but like Construction
side as well so you need that kind of Tickler to remind yourself when you're getting back into that project that
those items need to be resolved yeah I even put on ours you know that it includes this addendum dated this day so
that way they don't have to come back and ask me hey Does it include this hey Does it include that yes it does include
this and it's already listed in there yeah last year addendums list your uh if
you've got a lot of alternates and only five of them apply to you I would encourage you to say you got 10 and 5
apply to you I've list all 10 and no change on the ones that don't affect you and then that saved us before because we
thought we didn't have anything on this uh alternate but in fact we did and
um you know it was helpful that the GC scene that we didn't have a number in on
that it just kind of laid it out if you got a couple alternates just obviously making sure that we we log our
alternates and and the pricing for that and then like Daniel just said make sure they you recognize the addendums
and then even in the project manual sometimes you'll run into you know the job specific bid forms and you have to
use that bid form they don't want anything else and that's where uh you know that they're going to be a huge
stick around price I've been finding out because they want that bit form they want the number
any alternates that's it they don't care about anything else they just want to see that number
yeah well those are dangerous and I just I always send our qualification sheet
with it even if it's their bid form and I'm like I've written it on the bottom of the bit form that our our uh
um uh our explanation sheet must be considered with this number or else to
just throw our away I mean there's too many there's too many things too
many ways to get caught on that bill and if you're some of this is like as you build a
relationship with your GCS uh and you have a good solid relationship with someone they're going to call you and
discuss things I had a call last week on a bid for one of my estimators you know they'll call you and let you know you're
kind of something's wacky or you know did you look at it this way did you look
at that um so that's part of you know the final thing is
personalizing that bid form is for what to build a relationship because like Kathy said they want to feel important
we all do and a lot of estimators are just sitting behind a computer screen for eight ten hours a day guys so like
Donald love and so personalize it but that's to build a relationship that's one of the
things that does it's you're recognizing that other human and that can come really in handy from a perspective from
the perspective of if you did mess something up they'll call you you know I I had a job that we're not sure until we
get through whether I was right or they're the uh the competitor was right but we had
all our opposite bids from a price perspective and there was only two bidders it's kind of the worst scenario
for me I was low by like 20 something percent low and they were high and I'm like okay which
one of us made the mistake here they called me I looked at mine and went over
with the estimators uh I feel really confident that it's fine and that we had
everything covered but at the end of the day those relationships that you built by acknowledging other people can come
in handy and really save your rear end yeah I've had those calls too where
they they call and they they like working with you because you do build that you know that that bond with these
people and they call you and they're like hey I just want to let you know that
right now you know you're not you're not the lowest you're you're you know little
you're kind of right in the middle and I'm not telling you that you need to lower your price on anything I just want
to let you take a look at everything to see if there was something that you added that shouldn't be there
yeah so relationships 100 matter yeah you'll get those calls um you know
I would you know say be very careful I want to be clear
what bid rigging is and what that is actually and a contractor Colleen or just talking
to on a on a normal project talking to a sub about the job if they're not sharing
you know specific numbers or something the key that's not bit rigging by
calling your client or your uh your flooring vendor for example and saying
hey can you re-look at this the fact is is that they know you're going to do the job right and when GCS do that it's
typically because they want to deliver the best value for their client they don't want all the headaches and the
being sure or the you know the things that happen when you when they have to deal with another uh provider so at the
end of the day that that's not been rigging uh I would say it's very much frowned upon in the industry but it's
not an illegal activity now if Daniel and I got together and we're bidding the same GC and him and I
said Hey listen 60 profit baby
and we went in and we were we knew we were the only two bidders and we both
did it way up there like that's bittering that is illegal and will land
your ass in jail and we know I know of a of a very large company in Chicago that this it's pretty
well known uh but this happened to and I believe it was their VP that went he did
some time yeah and like I said he didn't tell me any dollar amounts you know he's just
like is there anything that you could have had in there that shouldn't be in there like you you added something twice or
something just and he just you know they that the big
thing was I love working with you guys I would love to see you on this project but ultimately it's not my decision but
if you could see people added anything in there second look
yeah well you get those opportunities to to uh you know work with your contractor but I just wanted to be clear because
I've heard people say that like well that's bid reading it's not uh and it's
not illegal that activity like I said it's pretty frowned upon or it can be frowned upon but the dirty secret is
every flooring company I've ever talked to it happens I was at a conference with
a hundred and I don't know what are we up to 160 contractors at that place there was a certain discussion where it
was all talked about well yeah the contractor calls me and wants me lowering my price and you know get
closer to the low guy um so what I would say though is building
the relationship can come in handy the the example I was giving was
like I because there was only two bidders right with this guy Bennett High or if I miss
something you know and they don't have a third or a four to be like okay these are grouped together and this guy's way
low so he's probably the outlier it was just two of us and we both had pretty good reputations I see pretty good on
their side our reputation's awesome but uh the
so they called to give me a chance to look at it before they you know put me in as the low bid and that you
know can save your bacon sometimes um and that that's one thing too is you know once you do
find out that you don't win something definitely ask them well how much was I
off by and sometimes they'll give you a percent sometimes they'll give you a dollar amount and you're like man you can take
that percentage and be like man I was only you know three percent off and I lost this bid and yeah you can find some
ways to tweak it yeah that gives you a chance to re-look at that project and be like what could I have done differently
and still been profitable but got this job and that's really the the biggest
thing that we've been dealing with lately is learning from the projects that we've been that we didn't get
to go forward and still maintain you know the profit that we need in order to
run but getting it getting the projects that we want and maybe the Holy Grail of estimating
is don't do free like do not do work that you think you're going to lose
money on or that it's so tight if you have a project that has
seven alternates and there's 12 gc's bidding and it's some big you know
project that is like a Mainstay in your area like a new library or you know a new college dorm or something that would
get accolades and there's all these walk away sometimes it's just best to walk
away when you got all these alternates which tells you the owner wants to see
it 15 different ways right uh owner or architect and then your G you got eight
or ten gc's that's telling you right there they want the Autumn dollar price you unless you
most likely mess something up to be low you're not going to get the job anyway so I think that plays into it as well
early on get in and out of the projects if you can't do them when it comes to public bids you know
look you get a one shot at the price and I'll tell you when I was on the
Contracting side one of my favorite projects I knew one of my competitors wanted that job it was in his hometown
he didn't want somebody else on that job it was for my favorite client they considered me their favorite tile
contractor and so when it came time we we put a price on it as a convenience to
them because they want to show their customer that they have plenty of
participation in the bid and so I put the right price on the job I did not try
to be tight on my number and what ended up happening was we were third low bidder
the first bidder which was the person I knew was going to be aggressive missed the entire lower level of the school
which was locker rooms swimming pool decks and so he got cost the second low
bidder missed seven thousand feet of epoxy grout so he got tossed what
started out as a 290 000 bid ended up being almost seven hundred thousand
dollars and I was third low the point being is that being the low
number does not necessarily gain you the bid in a public situation because a good
contractor is going to qualify the scope of work that you have you want to make sure that you've covered the job
properly and priced it properly and then go in with the right number yeah lowest
qualified right and they'll tell you because we've talked about her too because on the
public jobs you're putting in a bid Bond and then if it's over a certain dollar amount you got to do the performance
bond and stuff like that and it's the and we've talked to them they're like
we typically don't use the bid Bond because we'll just toss them out and be like yeah you're done with this one he
said but in certain cases when we need to we'll definitely use that money yeah
I've never had one uh used but um because I don't pull out of bids I'm
you know frankly I've I've we've made mistakes and I've done a loser job before uh just to maintain the the
relationship um while we're we're closing in on an
hour already guys I got a question um with you know what we've we've talked about
the importance of building the relationship at the end of the project what is your best comeback when they say
oh we can't tell you that when you ask for uh where you landed
that's kind of a silly question but I'm just curious because I got my go-to
do you have good I don't know they usually just tell me you don't have gc's to say oh I can't tell you that no
so we we will they'll be like well we can't share that with you and I'm like okay so you're saying
you cannot share with me where my competitor landed are you in a you were in an opening with
all your competitors and you've got to hear all of theirs uh
we are only trying to get better that's where I lead to it's like we're only trying to get better I'm not I've lost
this job if I've lost this job that's got nothing to do with it we are just trying to increase our performance from
a getting jobs or bids in on time and providing you with accurate numbers
that's all so any real guidance that can help us become a better uh you know bid
resource for you because see just like you alluded to Kathy the G sees a lot of their
reputation when if they're bidding to a owner is how many Subs can can they get
those three Subs to come and give them three numbers on each scope and you know
the owners they recognize that stuff if a if a GC Can't Get Enough Subs to even get two or three bids they know that you
know there's possibly uh some skeletons in the closet with that GC
um so yeah I guess at the at the end of the day that's what I tell them
I've asked them in the past if they give that roadblock is to at least give me an
idea and my two percent five percent ten percent twenty percent and oftentimes they'll at least give you a ballpark
they may not give you the exact number but similar to what you said you know I
explained to them that I'm trying to serve them and if my number is not working for them then
you know I need to know what I have to do to be effective for them I always make it about them when you make it
about that you don't make it about yourself you have a better shot at getting the answers
yeah good insight well uh so we went from
start of getting a bit invitation and I know we didn't do any screen shares on
actual takeoffs uh but I would like to discuss for the last couple of minutes here
the best software stacks for estimating takeoff PDF readers that kind of thing
what are your favorites Kathy because you do this with multiple different companies so wait a second if you cannot
answer this do not worry about it I will answer my I just realized the position I
just put you in I'm sorry I into it all the time because I've been asked when I was doing speeches at conferences so you
know I will tell you who it is and why it is there's great software out there
and everybody's going to have their own ideas as to what is important to them
but for me measure square has become my absolute favorite go-to as well as all
of my estimators because we've experienced no glitches in their system
and more importantly they're there to serve the industry if you can see a
potential Improvement in their software they're going to hear you out and they're going to consider it and more
than likely either they're either they'll adopt it or adapt it one of the two that's really important the industry
is forever changing software's are changing products are changing and so if
you've got a software company that's going to work with you to try and make their product better to serve you better
that's that's key that's huge yeah that's awesome I would say the same thing with measure
square we've we've used some others in the past but measure squares our favorite us too that's what we switched over I
think two or three years ago from a different program and not only is it more user friendly
but like Kathy said it's if you have an idea they will absolutely hear you out I
mean my brother's been on webinars with them constantly like this is my idea
this will make my life easier how can we get it into your system and it's
they're they're all about it they're like you said they're they're here to serve us right and they really show it
yeah brother breeders
um or anything like that Kathy I don't I didn't know if I mean not just for reading documents but we use bluebeam
it's kind of a you can do some takeoffs with it I I do it to check estimator
sometimes or whatever but you can Mark I like it because I can mark up the drawings and put notes and Cloud stuff
out and I can cut stuff away and I can make the drawing what I need to make it
because I'm always thinking about okay what is the installer gonna think when he sees this that's just how I build
things so you can actually cloud and make notes all over measure square as well so there
isn't that limitation we don't typically use bluebeam um not at least for flooring we've
started doing drywall painting and ceilings and in those we may apply it
more because we're not typically using measure square at this time a measure square is now developing in a way to be
able to be used for those other trades but we haven't the teams are not quite up to par on measure square yet for
those trades gotcha what about you Daniel yeah typically we're doing measure
square as well like that's where you make all your markups and stuff yep so
they have a notes option and then we'll like draw arrows to the we'll draw an arrow and put a note out so that way
people know exactly what we're talking about yeah so uh our estimators will do that
kind of thing but when I as a if I'm project managing in it managing the job
I don't just I don't have I don't even have a measure square login myself so I
get the documents from the estimating uh the estimators and you know they're in
PDF form uh or a measure square file well if I don't have measure square I'm not going to be able to look at it there
so right in the PDF form and then I use bluebeam because it can do all those
markups and stuff uh it's a lot better than like an adobe or something like that although you can probably get a
really high end of adobe to work for you but is uh is that software does that
software have a cost to it moving yeah it's like I had to remember
it's like 300 bucks a year or something it's not like not too bad but yeah so going from PDFs
like that when we're out on the field we do have um the
measure square mobile as well so we can pull it up on there but if we
don't have if we don't want to do that and just doing a screenshot and marking it up with our phones is what we do
gotcha well it was a pleasure we're gonna have to wind this thing down to stand or an
hour it was a pleasure of chatting with both of you about this and getting into the weeds a bit about how estimating uh
you know there is a way to do it it's not the only way but there are some best practices so I hope that we shared
enough with you guys so that you know what those best practices are as always if you have any questions for me you can
reach out at Paula go Carrera uh Daniel yours is shoot your email again because
Daniel will do just the easy one Daniel at pfmi dot team
awesome and Kathy if somebody wanted to reach out to you for a service or maybe have you bid a few jobs for them and
they're you know they're really busy or something what's the best way for them to reach out to you my phone number which is
203-627-0067 or my email which is K case at quantifyna.com
and uh Kathy with the k athy with a K that's great so
um all right well if you guys like the the content that
you got I would encourage you please help us out give us a like you know a thumbs up whatever you're watching this
on uh one of the big realizations we've had over the last several months me and the guys is uh people will consume this
this uh podcast in multiple different ways it's it's YouTube It's LinkedIn
it's Facebook it's you know it's all over uh so consider liking uh if you're
on on um YouTube consider subscribing uh we do this for free every single week
every Tuesday at three o'clock Central Kathy thank you again for joining us it
was a real pleasure to talk through that with you Daniel tell your brother to get better my friend yeah
yeah I'm I'm gonna go to bed all right everyone
all right see you next week and Kathy again thank you for joining us I'll see you in a week awesome see ya
bye
The Huddle - Episode 38 - From Residential to Commercial
This week on The Huddle Daniel, Jose discuss the process as well as pro's and cons of an installer moving from residential installation to commercial installation.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
no Paul again this week he's actually traveling uh don't know where he's traveling to in
this time but he's busy somewhere cooler than the office right
well this week we're going to be talking a little bit about uh moving from residential to Commercial
and kind of how you go about that and me personally I don't really know because
I've been a commercial my entire career but this guy right here has actually
made the switch uh early on so he'll do most of the talking and
we'll see what uh what he's got to say so today if there's anybody out there
who wants to uh be included in the conversation please speak up and feel free to reach out and join the
conversation and like Daniel said the starting uh [Music]
[Music]
in commercial um never really chose a side
um until him and his partner split up and then then we veered over the commercial but uh for me the experience was
I'm gonna be honest residential is not for everyone um it wasn't for me I I don't feel like
uh the setting was my strength to begin with only because I
I know what it's like to have someone in your home and I just I felt like I was always invading when someone else's
privacy uh you know they went out and your home is supposed to be your your Sanctuary
um it's it's your kingdom and it's yours alone and I always felt a little odd
being in there to be honest um and maybe that's just uh my brain right um we want to be respectful of
other people's property um their area so when we did transition more towards
the commercial side I was extremely happy about that um
the commercial Society just there was just a lot more I want to say freedom but that's definitely changes in the
past 10 years or so but the uh the freedom on the commercial side was
not having to deal with the homeowners being like um I was just we were just talking about
this a little bit ago about how you see some of the pictures on Facebook and you know it's you know these guys working
over here and then the homeowner in a chair like five six feet away from them just
watching them all day long and a lot of uh sorry Mom our mother is over here copping yeah that's just her saying Hi
how long homes by the way um but it's like we call them helicopters we used to call them
helicopters right and they they used to bother me too up until uh
there there becomes there's a point in your career where you don't really care
who's watching you anymore because you're not doing anything wrong in it
even if you do mess up you know how to fix it it's not like it's a you need to try and hide anything it's like oops my
bad let me go grab this over here and fix this real quick usually my um
uh yeah I'll be right back um the the it's just it's just a different
setting um understanding the difference uh as far
as communication with the homeowner versus a commercial site when you're dealing with other trades in general
um the communication aspect is a lot different and I feel there's more
etiquette involved in residential and that's probably why in my younger years I didn't really like it right because I
there was too much structure that needed to be in place for me and now there's a
little rough around the edges when I was younger I was not um
I was not the easiest person to talk around I and I struggled with this to this day is
I I have a very very thin filter and back then I had no feel to it I didn't understand uh the
concept of utilizing building time and a place being able to turn it on and shut
it off at will yeah that was uh that was more difficult when I was younger
if you didn't like me then oh well chances I don't like you either like that was my mindset went out you know 18
19 20 uh probably 21 to that um
you go from from the household in the residential setting uh whether it's
um playing HUD homes or any of that type of work to you know the high-end portion
there's a very broad spectrum there right like there's a lot you can get away with in certain
scenarios but um I'll be honest I was never in those you know half million dollar homes or a
million dollar homes uh I don't think that our skill set that when I was that young and the gentleman that I worked
with were for um that wasn't something they went after either and
thank you I wasn't ready for that that could have put me in a different position for sure could have messed up a
lot more stuff yeah yeah it was a good kind of um and it's all mine so some guys man some
guys are just like built for for that like uh you know my buddy John steyer and styrofoor and I don't know that
that guy isn't built for the residential aspect um
he's just he understands people right and there's been his in his line of work and it
takes it takes a certain person to thrive in
in that atmosphere that environment um could I do it now yeah 100 I'm fine now
like I understand you know it's a little bit different you know I'm a little bit different a lot different
um and everyone is a little more understanding but the commercial industry is is where I
find my comfort and I would always re remain comfortable in any commercial setting
um and that kind of falls under the uh what was it called um
like assistive living I know that that that's where they live and there's you know their own residence but to me I
still consider that commercial projects um and then transitioning over was
super easy super helpful it was more our strength anyway give me
you know 50 000 square feet we're going to perform rather than a 5 000 square foot where I just
felt like you were in Japan even 5 000 square foot home is still a big home yeah and I think that's one of the things that Paul probably wanted to talk
about too was because you you get these guys that are you know strictly residential and they're one two-man
operations and then once you get into a commercial setting I mean there's some times where we have five six seven
people on one project for you know months straight and just one having the
manpower to be able to do something like that and not you know kill yourself work yourself to the
ground but also you know you're looking at
um the the cost of the product if you're selling the product you're going from you know having a house that's
a couple thousand square feet where you're coming out of pocket you know essentially a few grand to
I mean some some of these commercial projects are millions yeah that's uh
that's above what we're going to do right now you guys so don't get that wrong but still they can facilitate that
when you look at you know some of these groups it's um I mean even if you look at Home Depot
and you know the box stores and stuff like that they they want their money before they even
start any work right and you know a lot of the flooring stores are like that as well and probably the guys that are
doing residential it's like you're gonna give me my at least half of my money up front and then you know we're gonna get
payment incrementally or right after the work starts when you're working with
commercial um trying to do everything by yourself full service you're looking at you know
The Waiting months before you get any payment it's like there there's so much
more paperwork and stuff on the office and that you don't have to deal with when you're residential you don't have
to deal with you know um AIA billing and you know putting stuff on certain
documents in order and having to get it notarized even before you get paid that's you know something that we had to
learn as we went to yeah you know and it's crazy too thinking that you're more
our comfort my comfort your comfort whatever our comfort is in the commercial industry knowing that there's
more rules to follow when the part that I didn't like about the residential was
the rules you had to follow and it's just weird to think
so it was open space right like uh freedom to run so to speak
um in the commercial than it was in the residential and I guess that that does come with its headache and we're
learning as we go we're still learning and we're evolving um but you did set that one touch on
what you said too like the residential part like he's right like if you're of one two three-man operation and you can
find enough work for you guys to partner up you want to work together um
um then the residential is kind of right up your alley right so if you're one of those
individuals that likes working alone works for you by yourself or you want
help every now and then the residential is a lot easier to uh maintain uh or be
successful at than commercial um you know it all has its challenges and
so snitch um but if you are
um if you have ADHD you just need a thousand things to do on one project then commercial is where it's at
um I don't know how else to explain it but um some people are just uh love the the wide openness of the
commercials and people love their as eventual but um I think it might be transition line
if you think it's easier for a residential guy to transition to commercial or the other way around I think it's easier for a commercial guy
to transition into residential because we've seen that more often than we've seen residential guys going to
commercial because you you have to you have to be willing to
create a team if you're going to do commercial rights because if you're if you just want to work by yourself
then residential is the way to go because you're working in a smaller space
on projects that you can handle yourself with just you and a guy but if you're looking at you know some of these bigger
commercial projects that's when it takes more people so a lot of the guys that we've seen transition into the
residential from the commercial have not had
a hard time really and they enjoy what they do still and I mean you think about
a couple years ago when you we've seen the the residential Market shooting off
right and the commercial was not really you know tanking or anything but it was just steady so what did they do they
they were like man all these houses are being built and I know some Builders I'm just going to switch over and now you
know we're getting calls from some of these guys and it's like hey what do you got going on because I mean even through
the chamber you you go to the meetings and they that's what they'll say they see everything in the residential side
kind of uh slowing down a little bit and the commercial side is actually taken off a little bit more than it has been I
think especially the multi-family so and you know and that's one thing too with Healthy Families going to be able to to
feed both both uh monsters right commercial and residential because
essentially that's what I'm doing this this residential project and a commercial scale
I think that's that's a good one and you you get a mixture right because a lot of the multi-family that I've been seeing
come across the desk are like they'll still have the the stretch
carpet in the units in like the bedrooms but then in the kitchen and stuff it would be glue down lvp or shoe vinyl or
sheet vinyl instead of the the click stuff yeah but then the common areas we'll have uh commercial go down uh
carpet or resilient as well but I think um if you are looking to make a switch and you are doing residential even
you know full service selling the materials and everything I don't know a lot of these
guys I go through like Floor Source or something or they have partnership with the stores but if you're looking to get
in the commercial I'd 100 percent see it being beneficial for you to you know get
with the store that's doing most of the the legwork and then just providing the labor because
I mean that's how we did it for years and it and it worked right it's
you don't have that headache of chasing down the payments having to come up with
all the money up front I mean some of the projects that we've done lately they're not even big but it's still you
know 60 70 000 worth of material that you're pretty
much saying here and I'll see you in a few months [Music]
you know it's it's part of the process part of the learning right because I'm even the other day you know the thing
was yesterday the before yesterday had someone message me on Facebook and he's like hey I'm thinking about getting into
this multiply family type deal has 256 units and
I was just wondering you know he was asking me about measurements about you know how do I do pricing I'm usually not
doing stuff and it's like man at 256 units plus the hallways plus their stairwells I said you're probably
looking at you know quarter million dollars easy just the material that you're going to have to
flow it's like not only that it's it's he's working with someone that they want him to
supply the material and everything and it's like man do you even have the accounts to be able to
to order this stuff how are you going to leverage that too is when uh uh when they're at the
starting line and they Inspire the pistol what are you gonna do for labor you know
do you have all that in place uh can you have all that in place um I mean there's a lot of variables to
think about it you know and and I I go out like this and I tell people like this uh you know because we have we have
a size project that we know is outside of what we could handle right like we
understand everybody has limitations um even if we're giving out to our Network and try to to use some of the
guys in the installs that we know for uh for help there there is no project too small but
there's definitely a project that is too big and knowing your limitations on that right
away will help you a lot like I think that at some point we may have taken on more than we could chew
um and it always start like that because scheduling is all over the place in commercial
residential is actually fairly easy to schedule as long as you have the material uh but commercial there's a lot
a lot of variables that that pushing back around wants you to get pushed up
and and I think uh we've been to the point where we were working way too much to accommodate everybody else's schedule
changes I'm thinking that we were going to lose work if we said we can't accommodate
um and you know there's some cases we may have um and in some cases we probably do
right now but um it's okay to say no or I'm sorry that was I cannot accommodate that
schedule change right and if you're thinking about you know I definitely feel free to reach out to us and you
know like I said someone on Facebook reached out to me with questions and man this
all we want to do is give you the information to make you make the right decision but we can't make it for you
right you're going to do whatever you want to do so
just be informed right and that's what that's what we're here for to inform
everyone and just kind of let you know what we've been through and I think if you are making the switch looking back
um that's that's the best bet is to get with you know another a contractor a
flooring contractor in your area and start on the labor aspect only and
see how far that can take you before you even think about you know doing any at
least any big projects I mean we've done you know projects where it's just even at schools
when we were first starting to sew it's like you know a few rooms here and a few rooms there and it's like
when you're when you're self-funding it's hard to uh
hard to watch that money go out and not knowing when it's gonna gonna return it's easy to overextend your finances
because I mean it you can look at it like you're going to get it back but
when timing is very important extremely important timing can make or
break me for sure right so you know just going back to those those when they pay when
residential you're essentially asking for money up front you're getting it and then you're getting your money pretty
much as soon as you're done um we have commercial projects that we I've been waiting
for payment for probably two months now and you know we have some contracts or
some bits proposals that go out and they come back and it's like hey you you're asking for you know a net 15 or a net 30
and it's we pay net 45 or a net 60 is that okay and I mean that's a a matter
of absolutely we will work with you because
we want the work it's if we say no they probably are not going to change their
their pay schedule to accommodate you and and on the other hand you may
already have some relationships with contractors and they understand uh you know all these small or these large
contractors started out in a position where they they couldn't afford to to do what they're
doing now they weren't fsis and some of them understand but you know what like if they see value in you then they will
they may not they will they may bend the rules a little bit but I would not make it a habit on asking
um but just be transparent like 100 be transparent if you can you can if you can't you can't but don't
lead them to believe you can when you change um that's just nobody likes to have egg
on their face um and you know on another note um the new salesmen flooring stores out
there you know chances are one of your guys's uh installers or one of the crews
has someone out there who gets a lot of phone calls about uh work and selling
product they don't want to deal with it they defer that but if you guys have meetings with them and say hey
um if you guys ever get these uh phone calls or the clients asking you this or that about a product that they're interested or if you can or if you want
to um and obviously it's not stepping on your toes right like you know I'm right
behind the Fiji um it could generate more revenue for you guys too but to be honest give them a
piece of the pie you know what I mean yeah that's where we say Partnerships right that's what you're doing you're being transparent creating Partnerships
rather than creating someone that's trying to go behind your back and they're they're going to end up doing
doing it anyways you might as well take your piece while you can yeah I mean
you know for a long time I was in the field and doing all and I'll say oh doing a lot of office work as well right
and and I think at one point the guy's so busy uh me taking care of phone calls and estimates and labor votes and all
that that I was having um I was spending less and less time on the floor on projects when I needed to be
spending more and I was putting my guys from you know eight to ten hour day to a 12-hour day
um but also when I was uh on the floor doing the installs it was I was go go go
no lunch no break because I know I'm gonna get a phone call I know I have a meeting I know I got to leave for an
hour you know and I have a half hour drive you know I'm gonna lose three hours uh or I'm some of the guy's home
and I would stay and make up for the time so I was really not doing myself in favors but
my mom's trying to technology everywhere with a very easy twin [Music] is it out of paper
um anyway guys sorry um you want to help her a little bit no just leave it alone I will do it when
we're done um sorry spending too much time on the
phone and not enough time on the floor so and then the transition to the office
part was in order for me to justify being more available for
um our clients or Partners um I had to start
making additional funds on the sales portion and that's where the Partnerships come into play like hey I
have a client looking for this uh can I purchase material through you but leave
me a little bit of room for the margin and that's how it really started um
once again I wasn't responsible for the finances out of pocket but I did owe them the dollars and cents and something
was said and done so um that did help with a little bit of the transition from things from labor to
sales but the only thing that would help transitioning anyone from residential to
commercial would be know what you're getting into call
somebody ask questions do not partner up with another installation company and you know get your feet wet on a few jobs
because it's it is the the market from residential to commercial is totally different and
that's why you know we love commercial and that's why residential guys love residential yeah and um and just for the residential
guys who are who are making the transition hey just understand that there's a lot more science involved in
commercial there's a lot more of the mutual understanding to know in the commercial run and I'm not I'm not taking a shot at
any residential guy because or or office it's just there is way more that could go wrong in
a commercial setting than there is in a residential setting depending on what type of residential right because if
you're just doing carpet day in and day out and you're stretching you're not really worried about uh moisture
readings or anything but if you do wood you're all you're constantly having to check the moisture of the wood to make
sure that it's with intolerance of the product you're installing anyway so like you said it's it depends on what
you're you're dealing with but in commercial I mean you're dealing with concrete
a large majority of the time and if you're not if you don't keep everything
you know set and make sure that you have your readings and everything and something comes just pops up and
it's like oh what's the the moisture content it was like I don't know well or if you go what's
moisture content right sounds like it's your fault right away
we didn't we didn't start out like that like that we didn't start out knowing
everything we just uh ended up uh learning as we went we've been on that when someone
is like well what's the moisture content you're like don't know
like didn't know that was my deal and then once you start reading uh all the specs it's like yeah the installer needs
to know like you don't have to do the testing but you need to know what those uh moisture results are before you
proceed because as soon as you start spreading that adhesive you're owning that project yeah and you know he makes
a good point too so if you are a transition to the residential commercial in the residential World a lot of the
stores rely on the installer to give them information and they use that information uh for their their terms
with their plan right um and that's what pretty much rides up the contract is just an understanding that it's limited
um but when you move over to the commercial side and say you're doing labor only um if you don't really know what is
entailed or what's included in the contract between the flooring store or the flooring
contractor or trade partner that you are working through to do the install
um you could be putting yourself in a very very bad position um
because they may miss something and you need to be able to um to catch up to that you need to be able
to understand what the terms are so you understand what's in your scope because if you're not working with someone you
trust or who's reputable they may defer the failure or anything that goes wrong
right back onto you and that's not what you want well you're talking about you know stuff like that and change orders
with homeowners are pretty much on the Fly you're dealing with a homeowner already anyways and in the commercial World some of the
the documents I I've seen you know they state right in there you know any
additional work even if you get something signed is not going to be
paid to you unless a change order is issued so you have to you know go through more hoops and it just it really
does suck sometimes because sometimes it just puts you in a spot so you're if you're like if I don't do this I can't
continue so do I just continue and then worry about it later or
I mean they probably run into that on residential too but it's easier to get into contact with a homeowner than it is
to go through the chain of command on a commercial process yeah I mean the person essentially you are bumping albums with
the person who is paying the final bill um in residential unless it's an investor who's in everywhere right
um and you can get in verbal you can talk face to face say hey who ran into this situation hey look what we found
commercialist um I I wish it was that easy I do remember when it used to be a handshake uh in an agreement and then you're
you're good right but um there are times I've definitely changed uh there's no more I mean there
is pain shootings and there are people that you can still trust that will follow through on what they say they
will do um however there are still uh documents in place
and systems in place to make sure that there's just you can trust someone and give them a handshake and understand
that they are going to to come through without the documentation right then and right there then we can go ahead and
continue on and um move forward with progress on on the project itself
but I think this one's going to be a quick one today you've got to get your son over to practice Paul's traveling
and uh we don't really have any plus that was on here for a little bit he said
that he's uh making the transition right now and it's it is it's
a different world but I mean it's definitely a really good world to be in
so if you do want to get in the commercial like I said my advice is to get with a flooring contractor in your
area and start out with labor only so you're not eating the cost of all that material right away plus plus you know
well these manufacturers or Distributors even open wheel open account we when we
when we made the switch from you know labor only to full service there were some Distributors and manufacturers that
told us straight up no we're not gonna even open you an account because of the other people around you and it wasn't
until you know they start seeing seeing you constantly like hey this is
legit we're actually doing this then they're like all right we'll work with you yeah yeah we say hey
I really need this if you don't sell it to me I'm gonna go over here like I I need to figure this out and
just have a conversation with them because I understand their aspect right nobody wants to saturate the market with
uh with a sales team right they don't want you know an area that's got 20 stores
they don't want their product at 20 stories and have everyone bumping heads
against one or another I get it I understand
um however you know hey let their margin separately build right but their skills
don't believe that that's one of the things too is working with your margin because when you do get in the commercial a lot of it is low bid rule
is all until you have a strong hold on what your your Niche is right and
um there's been there was a project that we lost when was that last week or the week before when it's like
um it was like uh just over a 100 Grand and you know we were within four thousand dollars of the low bid and it
was like sorry like that's all it takes is you know less than four percent you put all that
work into getting these composers together they went through all of your details they bypass all that they look at the numbers say yeah
oh Yep this is the lowest one we're gonna go there um not always but that does happen more
often than not um you'll get the the because the clients that that love
you enough to where you know you're the you're the only person that they're gonna call and we love those things
so I guess uh I guess we're gonna I'm gonna have to fill this out on my end pretty soon pretty quick but in closing
for me is um here are my thoughts my opinions if you are in the residential
um Market as an installer or even sales uh just the margins there could
potentially be a lot greater uh than the margins in the commercial
um and I'm just saying like and we have a sale in a house and say the average house for flooring on what a
2 000 square foot house uh up and down is anywhere between fifteen and twenty thousand dollars depending on what
you're selling they're gonna have an opportunity to make a better margin on that project
um but if you go to a 2000 square foot commercial project um the margins on that uh hard
or no in comparison like they're just substantially lower because the the
market is a little more cut from I would say um yeah but I think you know depending on
the speed we can do personally we can do you know that 2 000 square foot commercial a lot faster than
we'd be able to do the residentials so right right and it all depends on what your strength
so if you're one of those people that just like to be wide open and feel throttle uh commercial is where it's at if you're
um I'm not saying don't be meticulous but um just having their freedom roam but if
you are one of the individuals that likes to donran and um have an easier
day or week so to speak right and take the time move things around um you know for the the customer the
client and your trade partner then residential is a little bit more um someone pays for individuals like
that uh to each their own um I I like where we're at in our percentages right now so
they're constantly working on those work in progress all the time but yeah if you guys got any questions
you guys uh should know where to reach us by now if not you know our first name's Daniel Jose at
preferred flooringmi.com or like I said before and we we shortened it so at
pfmi.team will probably be easier but a lot of people even after that they're like well
is there like a DOT comment yeah it's like no just dot team that's it but all right guys hope uh you enjoyed
this one and we'll catch you guys on the next one