The Huddle - Episode 37 - No Wrong Way to Start Your Business
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose are live from the "training the trainer" event with some special guests (Joey Zago - The Carpet Guys, Dave Garden - CFI Certified Flooring Installers, Angel Saucedo - Installing Professionals of MI and Jimmy Salisbury - Blue Crew Installations) to share experiences on starting their businesses, and how different paths of starting can still lead you to success.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up everybody Paul's not here
today so I guess I have to do the introduction
Paul is traveling right now
we want to go where you're at I know I think Paul is a emergency job
stop right now to make sure that everything is all good with uh something that he's got going on so
uh today what we're going to be talking about is uh no wrong way to start your
business um there is never any perfect time right I always
like to try and relate it to uh having kids when are you ready to have kids you're not not until they just
pop out and then you just gotta roll with the punches we got a couple of guests here today we're actually over uh
near Detroit right now at a training so we got Dave Garden from CFI
we have you go by Joe or Joey either one Joey Joey Zago from the carpet guys as
you can see them it doesn't matter right it's all the same
and then we got people hiding back here too we got angel
y'all gotta get in here too and come introduce yourselves an angel
South Haven Court area the smallest town do a lot of work in Grand Rapids Michigan events
um having a beer having to listen learn what are you going to be doing I want to
be a certified uh requests teaching a five-week class he's
he's here learning to teach so you know when
oh J we got Jimmy back here give me Salisbury from Westfield Indiana
so we got a lot of people on here today so Christian oh yeah Crystal's over here but you know
they do see you too much you've been on a few of them already so when you're starting your business um like when Jose and I started in 2010
it was actually a horrible time because it was the month that my my first kid
was born and it was like uh basically starting off with nothing and
trying to to pick up pieces and figure things out as we went so
as you can see you know we were 12 13 years deep now um we've got some some roots in the
industry and trying to to just you know build everything up but it wasn't always this easy
um a lot of the times you hey Paul is jumping on a lot of times you uh
just have to that's what you have to do and like I said it's like having a kid you go in and think that it's going to
be one way and then the kid proves to you that what you thought is not how things are going to go and then you just
pick things up and move along so hey Paul how's it going
what's up guys hey I already I had to do the introduction since you weren't here you
didn't do it very well my man coming through in the clutch trying
so we gotta we got a few people over here
familiar faces yeah so I was just saying how you know we we started in 2010
um around when my first kid was going to be born and there's really never a perfect time to start a business
and you're just learning as you go just like when when you have a kid right it's figure things out that's all you can do
most times uh most times businesses
right no one ever wakes up more and says I want to be responsible for a 10 15 20
with a thousand people I don't think anybody ever links up saying that it's uh it's the passion for what you do and
maybe your volumes don't um
go down your own path of Entrepreneurship and was I ever ready no I don't ever think I'll be ready to
take the next step in inside no right but you have to do it you gotta take that leap of grades and
you got it you're gonna regret not ever trying if that is in the back anymore and you know
you guys be here for me all day and I'm pretty sure you've heard of the moving forward but so we got guests on today so
they can give a little insight on on who what when and why uh they started their
business so yeah it's hard to hear you so you're gonna have to we're gonna have to switch
spots you do got a great story I'm actually going to move out of the way too because
I'm gonna go share this history that was a trainer
how far you want to go back way back well I still remember the the address of
the Macomb County Youth Home 380 North Rose Road Mount Clemens Michigan that's Juvenile Detention Center I lived there
for most of my teenage years my parents were School teachers
visually impaired students and I went to uh when I got into public school where
they were teaching I got kicked out of every class and I had to be the attention for whatever reason I never
thought that I was good enough to fit in so I wanted to stand out something else
and I was very oppositional somebody told me to do this I would do the opposite I was very anti-authority
didn't like it listening to anybody who told me what to do and uh it was things that were once upon
a time really bad things and Rich actually became Life Savers sometimes down the road
when I eventually got out of school I saw an ad in the paper for shampooing
carpets for 400 a week and I was living in my aunt's basement she said you got to have a job if you're
going to live here so don't worry so I saw Jack's Car Wash and shampooing carpets and Jack's Car Wash and I
figured that would be the best job because I could get paid cash I wouldn't have to claim it on any sort of taxes I could meet pretty girls and get free car
washes I'd probably pocket a few tips what school did you go to that's that what's going on Facebook
93. I got 9th grade that's as far as you're young I only finished I didn't graduate I got it I got a GED I
got a good enough and that was only because I was on
probation show the probation officer I was doing something with my life and uh and that
was the extent of my Community College as well as every time I was in trouble I was Community College oh he's in college you know he doesn't feel sorry for me
anyway um the job at Jack's Car Wash was closed
wasn't available so I got a job champagne carpets and it was a blind dad not shampooing carpets actually it was
selling Kirby vacuum cleaners door-to-door and they said if you could shampoo a room with carpet and if you
shampooed five carpets one out of five people want to buy anything like you because it's so good and then if you sell it you make commission and you get
the 400 a week or the commission of 250 whichever is greater than the two so if you sell one in a week you make 400
bucks until two in a week you make 500 bucks and we can see people on here so it was whichever was greater was sort of thing and so I brought that home and
then when I was I told my Aunt my job and she said I thought you're going to go work at the car wash I mean she goes
you should go work at the car wash jewelry I said it wasn't available well how about the Chichi's restaurant I said yeah they fired
Oh I thought you just quit no no so so well um you know so what's this job again and I said well shampooing carpets
but it's really for Kirby vacuum she goes what my nephew is going to be selling vacuum cleaners you can't make
money selling vacuum cleaners what's your dad going to think of you and I stole my dad about it my dad says but my son's not gonna sell vacuum cleaners you
can't make money selling vacuum cleaners and so I was gonna quit but everyone's telling me that I couldn't do it
that oppositional behavior that I had that was just you know I just wanted to rebel against what they said I couldn't
do and so I never had any sales experience I had no no people skilled whatsoever I
just went stupid basic jobs and we're no brainer jobs and uh I watched some people that I
didn't think were very sharp or bright I thought I was a lot slicker than they were making seven eight hundred bucks a thousand dollars in a week and I was
like man but that idiot can make 700 a thousand bucks a week I was 19. I said I could do better than that and so I
eventually learned how to communicate with customers how to how to overcome objections how to close sales and I
became a pretty darn good sales person selling vacuum cleaners over the door it was a hard sale though because it was a
1500 vacuum cleaner that we were selling to somebody you know typically a wife at home by herself while her husband is at
work and she wasn't expecting us we were knocking on the door giving her a bottle of Tide to take a look at my cleaning products and that's how we got it we
knocked that that's how we learned how to knock on doors also and I became a rejection specialist because I'd have to knock on 50 doors before I get into one
out so it gave me thick skin so all these little things in my
younger life eventually became blessings despite you know how much I hated them at the time fast forward I uh
after selling vacuums for several years I didn't know anything about Kirkwood but I knew what the story it was the
sand in the grit and all that other stuff we've gotten for base and so when I saw an Empire commercial on TV I said hey I remember that
commercial from Chicago and I used to stay out there and so I said that's a good company and so I applied at Empire
today through all these Empire Home Services back then in the morning they just come to Detroit and they weren't going to hire me because I you know they
were only hiring the new carpool accounts I had no carpet experience I didn't know anything about her except for fuzzy sale
and uh they they half the time they wouldn't return my call I was very persistent and
finally I showed up in the door there and I talked to the sailing manager of America says anybody that's just persistent to be you know told no on the
phone ignored by three of us and then show up on the door if you're that persistent you've got to be a hell of a
salesperson especially since you sold these 1500 so they gave me a shot and within six
months I was running circles around their tough guys and uh so that became my career at sales I became a really good salesperson for
them uh one of their top in the country and and one was number one consistently in Detroit
and uh they moved over to Belleville and then we before we know it we had 35 sales people and I was you know always
between one and two and um I left them higher there was things that took place that I wasn't
really happy with uh just run me really really severely the wrong way and I decided I was going to
leave and I went to sell Basement Waterproofing it was a completely different type of sale I hated it but I
was good at it because I was good at sales and then a bunch of people that left Empire at the same time I did one down to Arizona to work for Express
Flooring where Jerry Rutter and Jerry had a company here in down river called Fairway and they partnered me with a guy
named Brad with sun flooring in Phoenix and they formed Express Flooring and it was before Empire got to the market they
basically copied the Empire way of the stock shop at home installed next day if
they got to Phoenix before Empire got to Phoenix and so they really set the stage in that Narcan and trailblazed the whole
area and that market was growing super super fast I mean Phoenix was this big that the next year it was this big but
the next year it was this big it's got the only surrounding suburbs just became massive overnight so they really hit it
out of the park and I got there in 2007 and then at the end of 2008 when the
economy started tanking um it was like they were shell shocked but
most of the sales people were you know like we can't sell they were quitting because they're like oh no one's buying they were just panicking but I was used
to selling you know the people that were afraid to spend them because I was in Michigan you know I mean he was staying
for 20 years these guys are like you know so I I had thicker skin and I didn't quit and a lot of people put and I stuck it out but a few months later I
got a DUI and it was my second DUI and so when I got to DUI in seven years my license ago
and I was facing having to go to jail in their 10th city which is their little pink prison out in the desert here at
Joel Ohio made a demography of their jail inmates I was facing going to going
to jail over there for that and uh I had a way out of way out of going Tent
City and just having to go to county jail if I moved back to Michigan and so I uh I toyed with the idea of coming
back to Michigan um but originally I hired a driver out there to drive me to my sales calls and
my boss was helping pitch in for the price of a driver because I was one of his top sales people over there I wasn't there number one there but I was within
their top three um and so he invested in hiring this girl to drive me around but this girl was half the time she was there half the
time she wasn't so but she wasn't I'd Drive illegally one time I was going to cash my check
and I made an illegal left turn into the parking lot to go catch my check and I saw my Ruther miraculer and he saw him
he might be able to turn and I took off and I got away with him and but what happened was I was 35 years old and I
said what the hell am I doing I'm running from the class of 35 years old you know this is crazier than the I was doing what else to see if I can ask
where yeah yeah we're good this is crazy the stuff I was doing when I was 15 years old when I was in another food
and so uh I I just said it to my boss I said I can't do this well we'll get you another driver
every time I see my dad he looks older you know I I almost got this girl pregnant in Arizona when I was down here
what happens if you know what happens if I'd have started a family down there and my parents are old and they need me and you know I said I you know I I just need
to get back back to Michigan yeah so after three years of being in Arizona I left Arizona back to Michigan and I
immediately went back to Empire today say within a week or so they've completely heard that I was back I said
you should come back we'll get your driver we'll do this and that and so I was like okay I'll do that and so when I went to here went to Empire and I met
with uh two of my old bosses I remembered really quickly after a few minutes why I left in the first place
and I just went home that day and I was like yeah and so I was faced with you know my
house is in foreclosure the one that I had in Michigan I lost my place in Arizona uh my car I was hiding it from
the repo guy for about nine months and they finally got that uh and eventually I went bankrupt when I was living in my
friend's house in his basement and they were renting a house in St Clair Shores but the landlord wasn't paying the
mortgage on the with the rent money so the house with the Foreclosure so now we're inside now we're sliding in a
house it's none of ours uh I got out of having to go to tent city but I had to the deal was I had to go to jail for 30
days in here in Michigan but instead of going to jail because the jail is overcrowded the prosecutor made an
agreement with the prosecutor Arizona saying we'll put them on a five-year probation or put them on a house arrest Heather instead and the lady in Arizona
was pissed off about it but they said you know well we have real criminals in Michigan we're not going to stick him into jail and don't go out of jail for a
DUI we'll monitor them or you can come get them so they said okay and so I was on a house arrest each
other I couldn't leave the house from nine o'clock at night till seven in the morning so we started throwing after hours parties in the basement of this
house we'd hire a DJ we'd buy a bunch of the can we charge people ten dollars ahead to come in it was three o'clock in
the morning when it would start by that time people were already wasted and if they're you know if they're not wasted you're doing drugs they're not spending
the liquor money anyways and so we figured okay if we spend 500 on liquor and we get 100 people in the house we're
gonna walk away with at least three or four hundred dollars a piece between me and one of the roommates and that's what we've done we did it three days a week
and once we ran a legal Club out of this house that isn't even ours
so we put a bunch of space heaters in there but good thank God we had electricity so the DJ equipment works
there's entrepreneurial and then there's you right and so this is businesses
so I didn't want to go work to Empire um I'm just going to share with you but I'm just being very fruitful and you
know the good and bad transparency is phenomenal the the ugly part about it was I had I was an alcoholic I drank
every day I drink every day for a lot of years I didn't drink because I was lonely or depressed I didn't drink when
I was by myself I drank because I wanted to have a good time but I did it every day I was in the nightclub businesses
and so part of being a good promoter is you're at the clubs making friends with people and promoting your next party and
so I did that every single day for a lot of years in Arizona and Chicago here in Miami and um
so that's that's what I did and so I was uh still throwing these parties in this house and one night I smoked cigarettes
I used to smoke Newport chips went to pack and a half or so a day and I did that since I was 13 years old when I was with 35 or 46 at this point and uh it
was I ran out of cigarettes it was about one o'clock 1 30 in the morning I wasn't supposed to be drinking but the
title didn't test if I was drunk it just tested if I was in a location and uh so I asked people to go to the
7-Eleven two miles on the street to go give me a cup of smoke so nobody would like let's come out of having this great big Earth no I'm too messed up to drive
man were you crazy I'm like come on dude it's a mile away I'm trying to talk these people into drunk driving because I thought it was normal you know and uh
and I was getting angry and finally I got out of drunken frustration I ripped the tether off my ankle and I threw it
on the table I'm like dude you're crazy you're gonna go to jail said I don't care those are my words I said the other
words but I want to say it on here um and uh nobody was going to give me their keys so there was this girl that
was passed out of the floor I just thought it was a few minutes ago and I went into a person this day I don't even know what it was going on she was just
passed out and LeBron has been a skirt laying on the floor to run her beer was built next door no one was cleaning up the beard with the houses and
foreclosures they cared about the wooden floors and I went there first and I started going down the street hitting the alarm button until I found the jeep
with lights blinking and I hopped in her car and then I went to 7-Eleven dropped off my ass you know it would have been
three DUIs and it was only five years without that way and I went to 7-Eleven I got smokes and I came back and on my
way back I saw this car roaring up behind me in the room here yeah oh I'm panicking my heart dropping had this
sinking feeling in my stomach thinking oh it's a cop what did I do you know I mean I know what I'm doing I just
don't know what what I did to get his attention and as I'm looking in the mirror I hit the curb so now I'm damn
drunk going over the curb and I'm thinking it was a cop and the car went around me and it wasn't a cop I was I
was just like oh my God I got it I was saved you know like because if I would have got a pot right there
it would have been three DUIs probably need DUI and this much time which would have put me fell in it would have gone
to prison for no less than two years and then by the way they found the car whose cars I don't know it's still a cartoon I
mean I was about a person for two to five years my life would have been good it wasn't looking really good at that point plus I was on probation I wasn't
even supposed to leave the house I was on a house arrest other and I called out for a services and lied to them so that my other Road broke off in my in my in
my sleep and I can't get anyone to drive me up there to test until the morning and so I mean all I mean lie after lie
after life and uh yeah so then so I got back and I and I started drinking a bunch of water and I
went tested the next morning but like God's grace I grew zero
and uh but the next day I said you know what I gotta finish this house or this thing again
so the next day it was the Super Bowl Sunday and uh we had another party planned and
by seven or eight o'clock that that evening people were already demolished because of the Super Bowl but it didn't have to be three o'clock in the morning
when people started all day and during their lands and I'm sober and I'm just irritated number one I'm going through
withdrawals from drinking every day and all of a sudden not drinking out another way and people are coming up to me
hugging me man this is a great party man slobber and saying I love you Joe man you're the greatest you know and uh and
I'm just getting irritated and angry and uh I give myself you know and I just kind of isolated
myself in my room for like an hour and I started thinking of myself well it happened if that was a complex then what
would I be doing right now I wouldn't be this part of it you know I'd be in county jail and uh you know waiting for it probably going over to probably going
to be sent over to prison and if I go to prison you know you know then one you know if I
was lucky enough to avoid prison in Stanton County Jail I'd be begging for you know God get me out of this and I'll never do it again please give me work
release so I can just work and sleep sleep in the jail I'd be you know and so what I did at that moment when I went
back out of the room and then out of my room and everyone's still drunk off their butts I kicked everybody out and I
started looking around the room and I'm crying as I'm looking around the room I remember feeling the tears in my face because I'm looking at these people that
were saying they love me they've known me since I was a kid they're my best friends and I'm thinking to myself if I
did go to jail last night and I went to Jackson Prison an hour and a half up the road who would come to visit me
and I started looking around and I said that person might no no no way no no maybe no no and then I started
asking myself won't even take the time to get the paperwork to fill out again my visitors list no no no at that moment
I realized that I had to change my life my life was more out of control than it was ever before and so I I kicked everybody out and uh I
knew how to sell carpet I wasn't going to go back to work for Empire and there was a new couple installers from when I
worked in Empire um they were slow and so they said well Joe why don't you get the carpet from doors that's the way
foreign
I get samples from these guys and it was 2009 so the economy was tanked beginning
in 2010 and 2000 beginning of 2010 it was super important so it was exciting one and um
they gave me samples they said there how about it you know you know I mean nobody's buying anything right now and
uh I didn't have a license and you know I couldn't take credit cards no Merchant
would sign me up because I bankruptcy you know and then you know there was no financing back then for anybody and so
uh I I just I knew what I I did what I knew I knocked over the world what's that you did real well with that
knocking doors no you're working with floor swords where are you here oh yeah not at first first it was just me yeah
you made a name for yourself over there that's for sure and it was because you could sell more than anything else I had
to generate leads because I can't sell if I can't get in front of a customer and so I uh you know when the topic is
you know when it's never what kind of when's the best time to start a business best time to start a business right now most people go into business and they
they you know they think I gotta come look at the perfect plan I've got to do this they spend months and months and months planning with no execution
meanwhile they're going broken or broker and broker now they don't have any Capital to start anything I started with nothing I had nothing no investors I had
no money except for the money from the night before the Super Bowl party you know I mean I had maybe 250 300 in my in
my name and so but I did know how to make a flyer on a printer I knew how to knock on doors because I did that in
perfect selling vacuum cleaners 1500 vacuum cleaners and I knew that I knew the laws of
averages that if I you know if I want to get in front of three customers in a day and I I gotta I've gotta be able to
knock enough doors to do it and so I uh I when I was on house arrest I um
I watched the documentary The Secret and YouTube which you can still look at the secretive on YouTube it's cost
nothing you can watch it I thought it was much hope this book was nonsense what was first introduced to me but I said you know what my Way's not working
maybe I should show up and listening to do and see what they do and uh my old
boss used to say if you do what they do you get what they got and so I just tried to copy mentors habits from my
past and then I also listened to Stephen Covey sub inhabits sometimes effective people on audiobook I'm not a very good
reader um but uh but I can retain things through audio and so I listened to that
over and over again and uh they gave me the motivation to write down goals instead of thinking about goals my old boss we should say if you wish in one
hand and and the other one or if it was gonna go full faster he says the one with substance he goes so you know thinking of your goals is nothing you
have to write them down on a paper and put in places so that way you actually see them I mean you know and uh and the secret they've talked about a vision
board so I made my first vision and my vision board was I put a picture of a
yellow Corvette with my mom's face on it because that was her dream car so one day I hope to buy her Green Card my uh I
wrote all these silly goals they were completely unrealistic and one of the goals was because when I worked at
Empire and express I'm not the most I ever made in a year was 92 000.
as a salesperson as a good sales person but I worked nine months a year and I took a lot of ten minutes
um so I so I I said what would be a
completely unrealistic goal I've got no driver's license I've got no car I've got no credit you know there's not a
single credit card or whatever sign me up except for my free spirit MasterCard that I had from from Barclay Bank out of
the UK with the weapon by bankruptcy they didn't catch it so I still had that 600 credit line that's all I had and uh
I said well I'd like to figure out a way to make a hundred thousand dollars so that was the The Big Goal how do I
make 100 000 RG I don't know how I'm gonna figure that out uh and I then I started working backwards and I said if
I can get in front of three customers a day three leads a day I'd sell two out of the three and it's
from April until the end of the year I can sell 300 000 if I can get in front of three customers a day and I said okay
so three leads a day equals 300K by that time I had a girlfriend we moved out of the foreclosed house and I moved into
her condo issues where I think so an apartment and she was irritated with me because I put these yellow sticky notes
all over the place I'm a milk jug next to the toothbrush on her alarm clock on her rear view mirror in her car you know
every place I could put said three leads a day goes 300K and I stared at it all day long everywhere
and I figured three leads a day 300K if I could sell 300 000 a third of the money would go to the labor a third of
the money would go to the materials and a third of them money would be profit which would like you so if I could sell
300 000 by then be here I'll make 100k and then so you know I just cut down working I just knocked down 100 Doors a
day because if I knocked on 100 Doors a day 30 or 40 even would be home you know one out of every 10 of them would have ugly carpet because carpets you know
looks good for a year looks okay for the second year let's kind of okay for the third year by the seventh and eighth
year it looks like so so I figured if I knock enough doors I'm gonna you know come across enough people to have
ugly carpet in their family and so that's what I did and before I knew it um the girl that was dating started driving
me around in this journey To Be My Chauffeur so I could I ran out of the doors or not in
St Clair Shores um and I started uh using my promoter skills from when I was a nightclub
Promoter on MySpace and Facebook oh no Instagram wasn't right out there
at that point it just started but I was using social media
next time yeah
and you know I had 40 000 friends on MySpace clubs you know and I but I used
op other people's interviews and that ope what did I do when I was a nightclub promoter I got other other people to be
sub promoters so I'm not the only one out there firing cars and promoting I got these people they advertise for me
and get people to the club and they would give a promoter code and when they got to the door to get half off cover so I could track you know got their kpis
going the key performance indicators includes performing who's that and the person the top three promoters got a
free bottle of champagne or whatever it was of the night they got a VIP thing so they got to be a baller for tonight and
so I had 10 little sub promoters making my party good and they did the energy 10 times what I could do I learned how to
you know motivate other people and and that was a blessing also because when I started my business I could just
I couldn't scale anything until I was able to get other people to do a lot of that partner I'm the power of one you know but if I can get 50 or 100 people
to do stuff then great so anyways uh I uh I my girlfriend was driving me around
and uh I paid all of her bills first with what we made and then everything else after that was split
and that first year around November middle of November right around Thanksgiving I decided I was going to
count the money I didn't I didn't take my half the ball at that point until that day and I said let's see we're at I
want to look at those three weeks a day where are we at are we at 300 000 how much more do we have to do when we were already over 300 000. so I said holy
Grant I have a revoked driver's license no house I've been living in my girlfriend's place and I made a hundred
thousand dollars this year but you know this goal stuff really works
exactly where the money go went back into advertising because I needed to generate leads that were further away from so you know then I started doing uh
Facebook advertising and then Google pay-per-click and things like that and uh and then the so I said let's think of
a bigger outlandish Bowl so the next year I see the school for a million bucks there's no way for 300 money let's
try it anyways and we're 1.6 million and by that point it was me as a salesperson and the guy that I had
driving me around after my girlfriend eventually gone to me I hired my friend to drive me around and while he was
driving me around I convinced him to come into the houses with me and I taught him how to stop so now I had I
hired another driver he was selling and I was selling and then before you know it a couple of guys from Empire that I
used to work with say Hey Joe I'm coming back to Michigan also you know but I don't want to go back to that place man you know hey we got a spot you know what
kind of commission is it I said it's better than how it was over there okay you know it's the next thing I know
I had four sales people and uh and then next year we did three and a half million and then we did five million and
six then nine then eleven and thirteen and then 18 and then 20 and then 20 again and then we've been 30 million the
last two three years and so I mean we just scaled and um well
that's gonna be a hard story to follow up
thanks a real long-winded too he can keep on going sorry no that's awesome at any
point were you like did you ever doubt yourself like why did
I do this you know what I was I was blessed with you know
people have different acronyms for God I believe in God Jesus but people have other things that I've heard of my AAA
program that I go to and one of the things that I hear is the gift of desperation feel good but some people use that as
their their definition of their fireplace and uh I was I had that gift of
desperation I had nothing to lose but I had anything to give I have no comment no harm here Nokia no heat in the house
and so I had you know I I always wanted to own my own business because I looked at entrepreneur just said man you know
my old boss man he was 28 years old I was driving around a Viber and a million dollars in the bank and he came from nothing when he was 20. I said man if
that idiot can do it I could do it and that person could do it not only that you got the sales background right and
as a Salesman you're pretty much no matter who you work for you're kind of working for yourself anyway because
everything that you're selling is based on your personality and and being able
to sell ever since I was in Kirby I always did say this because I like the idea of being able to turn my term in my
own wages I never wanted to work it Forward because no matter how hard I worked or how lazy I was as long as I did just enough to get by they were
going to determine how much I was worth if I worked extra hard that week am I going but in sales if I worked harder and I'd
devoted to my trade and I got really really good at it I determined my own work you get what you put in right and
that's what I that's what I always liked because I was competitive in sports and I was competitive and you know against myself
you know was the ego's been my amigo and also not my amigo and other things you know but uh that that ego that drives
that competitiveness is something that really pushed me I wanted to be the best guy because
what about you there Paul I know that was capable a long one there but
well first off hey sorry I got here late guys I uh
wanted to bring up a couple of things that I heard here that was like
I wrote down a bunch of stuff while you were talking persistence that you have had regardless
of the condition and you had that natural thick skin that you know you're able to be told no
and keep driving towards you know you didn't even have goals probably at that time because it sounds like from your
story the goals came later but you kind of did you still knew that you wanted better than what you had at that moment
and that thick skin and then just pure old entrepreneurship from being a club
promoter to you know having the due diligence to to seek out
more knowledge the secret for for um those who don't know is just basically
it's very poor just like think about what you want quit thinking about the
bad things in life and think about what you want that's if you broke it all down and took all the fluff away and just did
that it it can uh be a great um help to you know getting through some of the
tough times but also I wrote down it's never too late to get
your together it's like you started working sometimes
yeah you started I just I admire people who have
taken a tough road uh and you know had the thick skin and the
persistence and this this thought in their head whether it's been distilled
down into actual goals yet or not it's like this thought in their head that they can do it like this unshakable
thought that like I can do this I can do whatever it is um
my stories pretty quick but what I want to point out to everybody this is about not really having there's
no right way or best way to start a business there's some best practices like you know and a lot of those it
sounds like you had it they kind of came natural to you almost and what I mean by that is
the the Natural Instinct that I know salesmen have been around for 20
years that don't do what you just said which is you know if if working
backwards from a big goal if you have a big goal and you work backwards and break that into daily activities
that's how you succeed it doesn't have a a lot to do with the planning planning's
good to an extent but then you could you can uh what do they call that like
um paralysis analysis you know you can just keep trying to reinvent the will
until you've wasted so much time that it's it's uh you look back and you're
like well I didn't get much done in where the action takers they just go do fail do fail do fail and
and learn from that I heard a good analogy once that you know when I'm we
are blown away at how precise these missiles can be that the the defense
departments have and the fact is is that they're off course about 98 of the time
they're constantly getting feedback as they're going towards the target until
they hit the target it's actually the failure of it that creates the the Precision and success
and so you know they're while there may not be a perfect moment for a perfect
time to start a business having the gumption to do it is first
and then the the Natural Instincts you had to work backwards from a goal and create
daily activities that that serve that goal I mean I know I know businessmen
like I said that have been doing it for 20 years and don't approach life that way so kudos
it was definitely something I learned from those two I I was I was dumb enough to listen and
finally it's smart enough to follow through it I guess I would say you know I eventually got life kicked my ass so
many times because I wasn't born with any disabilities I was born as a mental disability because I'm hard-headed you
know and then I didn't listen to people and finally I you know those that those disabilities that were self-inflicted uh
you know eventually made me um finally surrender it say you know what maybe I should just shut up and listen
to what these people that are doing it the right way maybe I should just copy what they're doing and so the two things that I that that were really brought to
me was that movie The Secret the and watching that over and over and over again and then listen to Stephen covey's
highly Seven Habits of Highly Effective People because I didn't work I didn't that wasn't my natural way of doing it I
learned that I didn't invent that somebody trained it to me through my listening to that audiobook and one of
the first ones that is to start with the end of mine and it went and that audiobook that I haven't listened to for several years I remember very clearly it
says close your eyes and picture your family you know if you picture your funeral you're dead in the box and all your
friends are coming up your family's coming up and they're saying their prayers and there you can hear them in the distance you know talking about you
and memories they had with you what do you want them saying about how do you impact their life what do you do with this knife you know what do you want
them saying about what do you hope that they can say about you you know okay so that's your that's your it's morbid but
that's your that's your end you know on Earth at least that's your end you know and so what do you want to accomplish at
the end of that period of time and what kind of you know outlandish gold would it is it I mean is is your goal to help
people is your goal to be successful financially is your goal to uh create
something or whatever it may be is your goal to change the way somebody on Earth does something what's your life goal how
do you in what do you do in this world that made a difference and you know what do you want that I'm saying about you at
your funeral no now now when you're there you know how do you work backwards if you're driving through the nights
from Detroit to to Miami you can only see you know 150 feet ahead of you but
when you get 100 feet up you can see another 150 feet ahead of you when you're 100 feet up you can see another 150 feet out of you so if you look at
this road map from Detroit to Miami you know that it's 25 hour drive the halfway Point's going to be Atlanta halfway
between Atlanta and there's going to be Columbus you know halfway between you know so you have checkpoints along the way so you know where the end is now you
work back way to backwards to find the most direct routes so that's just something that and that's why that's kind of like where where the where the
podcast came from and why the name is the Huddle right because Paul is a huge football fan so we're related to sports
and it's kind of like what you said you know as a football player you're looking at that next first down
so sometimes you get knocked back but what are you going to do to get that next verse down and it's just that's I
love how it relates to sports you know Babe Ruth was was the the strikeout King people didn't look and it was just breaking up right it was the Home Run
King until 74 Hank Eric finally passed up right but up until way after that he struck out more than any better in
history of baseball anytime you asked him what he was thinking about I was thinking about heading home runs you know and Michael Jordan missed more free
throws more more jump shots more layups more you know he had he failed over and over and over and over and over again
but he wasn't afraid to try it you know and like the launcher we were talking about the missiles I mean you got to
launch you know if you sit there on the launch okay thinking okay I gotta figure this I got to figure no that's bad launch you know and and just as you go
you know that that would be my yeah so many people try to plan their way and then before you know it they're broken
they can't start here's the thing for me it was uh I wouldn't have
anything you have a job nobody would hire me create my own business
that's uh that's that's so that's the way it was it wasn't to talk about the right time to do it the right time to do
it was the fact that I didn't have a job and uh much like yourself man I I had
the the application the Ford Staffing plan on the common half filled out all I
had to do was pass a drug test which is a formality you know was it wasn't it wasn't an issue for me
but I kept staring at this and my wife's looking at me she said wait you know hey how are we going to
make the house she's probably a little nervous um you know and it's just but she's
going to say she was why don't you try doing this on your own what do you mean
and so that's how it started for me and you're talking about Mindless Builder again I can smoke that like Paris
I worked for filter three ten bucks an hour it uh I was doing that while I was
laying Carpenter and then I gave up on that because I was a terrible salesman
absolutely horrific salesman it turns out I could sell myself not a product all right and then uh then I went to I
bartended while I worked at bartend as it turns out you learned how to sell
things in a guitar tech right you should have done it the other reverse order but uh but um uh yeah for me if it
worked for my wife and kid and having having shot
my goodness and Kathy you know if you don't provide for your kids then then
you know the the I guess maybe the guilt and the feeling of failure push pushing
push a minute there and keep pushing you and it keep pushes you in until No Angel you're gonna have your first kid here or
you're going to get that Spades all right you're going to get that in space where you're going to come back here your wife's watching Facebook
let me tell you something you can feel it anything in life that's one thing you can't fail in as long as
you're there right you're there for your kids you don't come you don't fail because you're their hero no matter what
right but you also find out that that love you have for your kids or or for your wife man that drives you and and
that really drives it that makes you do things that you didn't think you're capable of doing before in a good way
you know in a good way and I got to tell you my my wife is still the like the
strongest person in my life right I'll come home tonight and she'll tell me exactly what I didn't do today on the
way home but uh but with without that in my life
I I've been I guys I was happy being a torn carpet installer you know 19 years old I had my own truck
and tools I was 10.99 and and not paying any tax don't get me wrong I don't care
I didn't carry enough money to go to a bar like Joey would have I mean I was
the patron at a place like that for holding out the hundred dollars saying I got this round I got this wrong you know
I made 700 that week and by by Monday morning I had maybe a
hundred dollars in my pocket I had to supply I had to buy either by supplies I had to pay for gas
you know and and oh goodness gracious got to eat sometime this week you know
and somehow I had to make that somehow I'd make that go through and without care yeah never would never
Dave how long were you uh in that position before you met your wife
well here's the thing she was there all along all right we were we were uh I met
my wife just after I got out of high school we were we were friends more than anything else uh she lived in a
different state we we would you know but we had our own things going on and
um I I I like to think that uh I like to think that I was surprised but
that we've all know that's wrong but what it was we were we were two kids
trying to figure our way out right we're trying to figure our way we we helped each other grow up and
um at the end of the day with by having Chuck I mean she had
Chuck my goodness we got married she was still 19 years old I think now no she just turned 20 when we got
married so so we were we were really young you know and and we we did a lot
of we made a lot of mistakes together and then Along Comes Chuck so now mind
you she's the mom she grows up in a hurry all right we usually do this I'm playing softball on 17 and 17 six nights
a week disappearing for the weekend you know at the time of my life and
she's and she's she's raised a shot by her pretty much by herself and uh as she
threw a fit you know she threw a fitting academy uh it got to me one night and I
came home I came home from working and we had uh me and my little brother and we guys all came and tell us stories
about my little brother but we've been working together and and we had a few
I show up at home she cooked you know she she cooked and uh I I um
I had eaten you know and so what I I don't need that I don't need to eat yeah
I don't need any so my wife is five foot three she took that hamburger
and she made it a sloppy joe in my mouth and you know what I did I stood there
and I took it okay in my mouth but but it actually scared
me because I got so mad I got so mad at her that that uh I'm thinking things that aren't right for a
husband to think right and so what do I do I leave for the night um I'll go to the gym and shots and
moves but uh when I do that I'm thinking you know you're thinking and you're thinking by yourself you're thinking
about yourself you go what an idiot so I talked to my dad and my dad by the way I
had a great great parents talk to my dad I tell my dad I said this is you know I'm leaving
and my dad tell you know he says he says you should leave it no I said you should if you obviously don't love
it well no no I didn't say that he said and love her I said I'm leaving her because
she don't love me I says well this you know you love her I'm like gosh darn it did you know why
you have to do that to me you have to make me think that I'm wrong right and you know what I was wrong
I was wrong but uh uh if it weren't for conversations like that and there's
always been people God puts people in your way right he puts people in your way to place your making all your bad
decisions don't be wrong half the time you still make them but they're still there right and they're still there are
the people that they put away and and uh so so for me yeah diesel Pete's I wasn't
a hireable person at all and you talk about that I mean I was I was a uh I'm granted really good with my hands but I
was the clubhouse lawyer you know and the clubhouse lawyers that guy that nobody really wants working for him he's
a necessity as an installer because you need to have good installers but you don't really want that guy because that
guy's a big idiot that tells you everything you sold is wrong and uh and so it took me a second to
catch on it really did and uh uh thank goodness I did you know because like I
said I well I've got a mortgage to pay and and no job and then I started
started doing it on my own and it worked out for me right and now I no longer
um no longer run a company but you know I did end up with a CFI I gotta tell you
telling that story and you look at these installers and they're all off the same path we all have the same issues in life
right you look at the sales people they all have the same issues when you get to talk to the sales people they they you
know it because we all live in the same lives together we're all living in the same Community we're all living and the
thing about it as we help each other grow right and for instance your your story house right your story when you and I
talk your story when we share we share our story we say help each other grow and that's and that's how we do it as
people and when you grow as people what happens your business starts growing because you're growing as a person when
you handle situations better you handle the little things in life just a little bit a little bit differently because of
the relationships you make and because you learn how to deal with them as you grow so the right time to do something
is man get out the boat see how it works right
what's it well I was just saying when it feels right like yeah yeah just jump up and do it
yeah that's just it Paul uh you say when you're right when you say it when it feels right it's never going to feel
right if you wait if you wait I'll never know people it's on the installer walk through an Open
Door the doors were open I recognized them I walked through them ended up with this great comfort right but uh I I did
that not because it never felt right don't get me wrong we were going out of
business more than we were in business oh yeah it always felt like it you know
because at the end of the day my wife would come to me and she's saying you know we got everybody paid but we don't have enough for the mortgage right but
that's that's the top that's because you're you're paying all your employees first those guys come first that's why
he's giving business and then and then and they're sitting there and so you're living off a credit card you know to
make sure everybody else is taking care of and it eventually if it works its way out because you figure out where your
money's going you figure out how not to spend money on the frivolous stuff and the frivolous stuff for me was spending
time with other people you know and and uh you know I got to tell you something
you're going out with other people and they all expect you to buy you're with the wrong people it took me forever
it really did uh you know that we go out to the bar after softball after softball
and and I'd be paying for three rounds and I come home the next day and you know
when I say I could come home the next day by four o'clock in the morning I'm showing up at home in the bar at the softball right my wife's getting up to
go to work you know and here I am I'm showing up and and those that's always a
problem as well you don't want to be that guy and uh you don't want to be that guy that's uh that's a that's a
tough way to go and it took me a while to figure it out but I think especially as installers
right because uh you you look at the industry and uh especially being in the industry for
this long we're look kind of down upon as installers because you know we are
riddled with people that are alcoholics and drug addicts and stuff like that and and those are the the type of guys that
do end up starting their own business not because they know what they're doing but because out of necessity right no one else is
going to hire them so that's what they do but those are also the types of people that never learn from any of their mistakes they're just they're
always going to be working for that beer at the end of the day or for whatever you know whatever whatever they're addicted to
and that that's the thing is the people that are listening to this are listening to this because they're looking for that
outlet they're looking for that story where I was an alcoholic and I realized
that you know something had to change my wife stuffed my mouth full of hamburger
and you know you did you had to reflect on that by yourself and then you talk to
your dad and realize that man that this is my fault it's like what am I going to do to change and unless you make that
realization you're always going to be in the same spot but the the fact of the matter is is that you started from
somewhere and you're at where you're at now because of learning from all your mistakes and all
your failures and I think that like if if I had this 10 years ago and I would
if I could have listened to your story 10 years ago or Dave's story 10 years ago or even our story 10 years ago
and knowing that you have to fail you have to put yourself out there and be
willing to fail in order to grow I think we would have been a lot further along right now
yeah a lot of it in my experience Angel has something to say so go ahead
Paul no I'm just going to say a lot of it in my experiences when I say that like when
it feels right we all get that like idea about starting your business and
and it's not procrastinating in that moment Dave did it out of necessity uh you know
in my uh case we got I I made pretty good money as a employee installer and
then doing jobs on the side that the company I worked with uh were worked for at the time was
getting ready to get bought out like the third or fourth time and I just decided that I uh if this is going to be the way
it is I'll go start my own and being at one of the PMS went and started our own thing and
you know talk about your wives and how family plays into it my wife you know
was a stay-at-home mom and and um out of necessity she couldn't really uh work because of some
health conditions but um I made like almost 60k that last year
and I go to my wife and I'm like hey I'm gonna go start this business and I know we only got 1500 bucks but I'd like to
buy a fax machine and uh we're gonna start this thing we're gonna we're gonna
make millions of dollars right the fact is is if I wouldn't have jumped
or launched or whatever you want to say it never would have happened and uh I
could have talked myself out of that real quick but out of the support with my wife and the uh assumption to just
give it a shot you know we started a business they grew rapidly and I bought my partner out no
three and the rest is history so like when when we talk about the right timing
there is no perfect time there's some good practices you ought to put in place like some proper planning a lot of this
ought to come to uh our audience to understand that there are some some hardships that have been shared here
not to say that you have to go that direction but maybe avoid some of those
pitfalls that that some of us have experienced and um you know create a company that that
does not have to go through all those hardships you're always going to have failure you just got to learn from it so
that's all that's all I got to say about that [Laughter]
pretty much I know I'm off camera here but pretty much what you're saying is that uh when we're growing up and all
those older people that gave us advice and information that could lead us to be a better person and make the right
decisions without having to experience failure that's kind of what we're trying to do here right like everybody's going to do
it again on their own time their own free will but take some of the information that you're Gathering here
from everyone who's here today remember everyone who's going to be here tomorrow take some of that information and retain
it and use some of it you don't have to do step by step this isn't a template we're not giving you
um advice for your life we're just trying to help you um in your forward progress of your your
business that's pretty much all it is and and take it for what it is not for for what it is for you not what it is or
what it was for everyone else this is all information everybody's taking a different route and to them has
experience and success for them from where they started where they're at now
you're not failing you're not trying it's right there's no
no foreign
eventually you get it centered it's trial and error like this child trial and error business is trial and error
but if you sit on the sidelines you know trying to come up with the perfect plan and being too afraid to to get out there and fail get up there and fail you know
the biggest failure is not trying yeah Angel what you got
um
hey man you're you're still but uh you're still fairly new though right I I I I I try to listen to like Stephen
Colby and Brian Tracy try to try to repeat those things as well because yeah I mean
you do need a you do need to have that information with this podcast or little
books or people around who are the kind of teacher that's that's I think a lot of a lot of what it comes down to is
what you surround yourself with people you surround yourself around and and living in information that we do right
now we're we're paying attention to this paying attention to that we're on our phones either dedicating minutes that
tune into hours to something that's not going to benefit us in a year the two years so I think I think the struggle I
don't want to save me because I don't like putting excuses but in general because experiences not excuses
experiences yeah in general it's it's difficult for people to kind of aim for that like you said and fail because they
don't have that that Community or that you know that kind of um that that like
they don't have that hardship where they break down you know in in in like
psychic or I don't know like a drunken state in the middle of the road where they're just like they're pressure up
and they know that their light flashes in front of them are they're they're significant others putting that much
pressure you know because not everybody has that but I don't know that mental strengthness yeah that kind of capacity
that that luck you know to have such good people around me and sometimes they do have people that are just you know
look it's their phone that that's their Community if they're people around them because that's their community
so I mean I think chasing that and chasing that like Community is essentialing because I mean
um I think I think I've been with Solitude for like past three years in that sense
you know put Congress on the rules with your stepdaughter like I'm trying to teach like that's the first part of
letting go of the familiar with the familiarity of where you're used to right I always say like it's human
nature to hate change right humans don't like change but if you you're not changing something you're always going
to get what you're yeah right well I mean one of the one of my favorite
things is your net worth is your net worth like who you hang out with and who you choose to spend your time with and
what what you choose to consume online equals out to where you're going the
thread throughout all these conversations is personal development and the desire to get better at stuff
absolutely and if you think about it just a few years ago you know none of us
would have I never would have thought we'd be in here all talking together but
it's those experiences and reaching out you know Paul reached out to us then we reached out to Paul we've been reaching
out to Dave um you know we 've we've been fortunate enough to
realize that it's it's important to put yourself out there
regardless of how like introverted you are because I know
it's hard as an introvert I'm fairly introverted as well but put yourself out
there and just be able to say and realize that I don't know everything
but I do know something so I need to learn from someone but also I can be a teacher and let people learn from the
experiences I've already had and just just put yourself out there and that that's the same thing with starting a
business it's just put yourself out there and start doing it and make sure that you're picking up
little bits of information along the way and start implementing them I think that's the biggest thing is having the
information and doing nothing with it if someone's giving you the information and all it's doing is sitting there then
you're just failing yourself at that point so and you and you've seen it here
like some of the information that you can get is just uh past experiences along your way
um you know selling vacuums you know you got to deal with people uh
coming home and realizing that the hamburger at home tastes a lot better than the hamburger at the bar
um yeah you know and it's just for for me I think it was the realization that I
was leading people without knowing I was leading people and I was putting people in a bad position
by keeping myself in a bad position so it was time to make a change and I had to make a change for myself and be my
idea then being an entrepreneur is in you from day one you just have to realize uh
it takes more than just yourself to unlock it sometimes and surrounding yourself by like-minded people and or
surrounded yourself with people but where you think you want to be it'll get you on the right path it might take a little bit longer than than some some
others but it'll get you on the right path um so the best time to start a business
is today next week next month anytime you decide yes I'm doing it that's the best
time and if you if you ever need to reach out I'm sure you know everyone in here is pretty open to talking to anyone
at some point so I mean I I appreciate you guys Jimmy in
the background sorry Brother Jimmy's taking it all in he's from Indiana man yeah actually he's from
Michigan you're that he's a wolverine that's right that's it Go Blue go Blue go blue
but then like no I love the the flooring Community I love everyone that you know has
participated and uh and you know engaging With Us online and listening to
everything that that we have to say even though you know sometimes we think that it's pointless and it does get redundant
because everything ties together um we all go through the same things Jorge is you know on here constantly and
you know he'll reach out to me from time to time just to say hi you know and you
create friendships through things like this and I appreciate everyone that's here thank you to everyone that's
listening thank you Paul man I think you were gonna make it today it was a tough one it's one of those uh
one of those things you got to do in business so I get to the office and and find out that we had to have a bid that
we thought was just a a normal bid with a sealed
bed opening with a bid Bond and we were two hours from bid opening and an hour
and a half away from the job so luckily I got a good bonding company it got me a a bid Bond
and um I hustled down to Ponca City Oklahoma to deliver it so uh luckily I could make
it yeah if you're ever looking for an installer in Wichita I know a guy [Laughter]
the best way to describe Mr Duane Pruitt Dusty High that's the eye Dwayne the
other PF but I want to I want to thank everybody for contributing and uh again I
apologize for getting here late but thank you again to Daniel and Jose and
everybody you guys put together for this uh podcast it was I found myself listening a heck of a lot
more and just kind of taking everything in I get to learn that's another thing I
I think that you can if you're looking to be an entrepreneur be a consummate
learner like I'm 47 years old and I still learn stuff I took notes during
this podcast I took notes during this podcast because
you know never stop learning so I want to thank everybody for coming we've reached the end of our hour here and
um appreciate the input and uh yeah thanks a lot guys I appreciate it thank
you Paul we'll see you next week I'm sure we'll talk before then nice to meet you Paul nice to meet you guys
all right have a good one
The Huddle - Bonus Episode - Women in Floor Covering Roundtable
Bonus Episode!!!
Women in Construction week is the first full week in March. We’re always happy to celebrate Women in Construction but as we specialize in flooring, it’s only natural that the discussion is based around that.
The round table discussion at CFI Convention 2022 was part of the Women in Floorcovering but went beyond that aspect to talk about the generational gap. Is the younger generation lazy, or is there far more to it? Is the older generation clinging on to beliefs that are no longer relevant? Views from both sides are expressed here and this conversation is amazing! Shout out to Cynthia and Mareshia for both being vocal and making the conversation well worth it! Thank you to Jen Zurn and Crystal Sims for leading an amazing roundtable discussion.
If you want to join us in the fun and discussion make sure to check THIS LINK to see the most up to date information and to register. The dates are September 20th - the 22nd.
The FCICA and CFI have joined forces to make this Convention the place to be!
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
The Huddle - Episode 36 - Subs Hiring Subs (Trade Partners Hiring Trade Partners)
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose talk about the positives and negatives about subcontractors (Trade Partners) hiring other subcontractors (Trade Partners), and different ways to avoid sticky situations and launch your subcontracting (Trade Contracting) business forward.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family? welcome to the
huddle we're here every Tuesday at three o'clock to discuss many maintaining
forward progress in your flooring career we go over a multitude of things last
week we had the ladies from Wi-Fi was that last week yes I believe so
um and that was an enjoyable conversation uh this week we're going to be talking
about um hiring subs and those subs having Subs instead of employees on their
Cruise so uh this is a very
um in-depth conversation it's something that I believe most people in our in our
industry would uh agree there's a lot of risks so we're going to kind of go over some of those maybe get some questions
uh from the audience on um you know some some uh problems that
maybe they have experienced um sorry I need to introduce uh I'm Paul
Stewart and with me as always is Jose who is in an airport somewhere and
Daniel at the home office up in Michigan Grand Rapids at PF flooring so
uh another training slash
event where where is that at Jose um here it's in Georgia
um I don't know exactly what town yet um one of them pay uh adhesive facility
I believe there you go that's what exactly well awesome
well good job sir I'll just plug it in here guys so bear with me I'm sorry about that kind of our schedule here
you're welcome so welcome welcome uh all right well we're gonna get right
into it here um if if I could get a show of hands
um I would but uh you know I if you're in flooring and you've uh you own a
flooring company a full service that provides materials and labor uh for
commercial flooring projects even residential for that matter and you hire subcontractors to do your installation
or some portion of that installation one of the things that
um I know many people struggle with I know the industry itself struggles with
is those subs that you hired hiring other subs that work underneath them uh
and um you can kind of think of it kind of like a labor broker almost
uh the good ones that really do it right uh make sure that those their subs have
insurance and everything um you know they they run it correctly
they do training they they provide more than just here's a job
uh but with in full disclosure my grandson is here with us today not
feeling well so if you hear a little voice in the background that's that's him and you may even see him running
around uh behind me every now and again because uh three-year-olds are
impossible to um tie down they do what they want and it's illegal
hey and if you guys uh I guess I'm Gonna Keep muting myself here but if it gets too loud when I'm on
um just go ahead and mute me let me just two hours awesome
Okay so Jose uh well let's go with you Daniel
since you're in a quiet place um you guys hire Subs right we do and do have you experienced this
where those subs have guys that work for them that are on a 1099 and not a W-2
yeah all the time I think that's uh that's that happens more often than not
to be honest with you and yeah that's and we're we're also you know
we've been guilty of that in the past too the the one thing that that we did
though was the research and knowing that okay there I mean the the federal government puts out a
form and says here's a checklist if they meet any of these things they're an employee it's like I mean boom
right so so you you gotta that that's where a lot of the that they
where we say you know it's we've been doing this for 20 years is this the same way that they pay the
the guys that work with them it's I've been paying them this way for 20 years
I've never been busted so it must be the right way but they don't really realize
that all it takes is that one time and then they can pretty much take your entire bank
account you know based on how much you paid out and stuff because it's not only do you have to pay penalties and all
that you actually have to pay the guys what they're owed and um one of the the biggest things I think
when we were looking at it was the overtime thing it's like when you're paid on a 10.99 no one's keeping track
of overtime yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of
risks which and I want to be clear if you're doing it right and what I would say is right
is that you are a sub and you're subbing to another sub for whatever reason you have that
business relationship not being a um
employment relationship when they're actually their own entity because we've also worked with people like that too
where it's just two guys and they partner up to get things done but they also do their own separate thing yeah
it's not like the only way we're gonna end up working is if we work together it's I have my
thing you have your thing I get my jobs you get your jobs and then they partner up on those to be able to
to help each other out yeah so that that Dynamic also works too so yeah it's it's
as long as everybody and as far as doing it right what I'm saying is that everybody in the equation has the proper
liability insurance and or workman's comp depending on where
you live in Kansas you're able to exclude yourself from workman's comp if
you are an owner and that's a lot of times I think why these things happen hey uh will you mute uh Jose thank you
sir um and that's why that Dynamic happens but as long as everybody is in the
equation has the proper liability insurance and the proper work comp uh
then or the the the waiver for the work comp in Kansas you can sign a waiver as a as
a uh 1099 as the owner company yep yeah you can do that in Michigan as well and
that's what um your brother Danny Sherman says he says workers comp can bite you yes
yeah and and their job is to try when we get work comp audited their job is to
try to find extra money that's what those Auditors do there they go in to
try to find the holes in your systems so that they can charge for that uh they
realize that that person is not paying work comp they're losing out on money and so if they can get the company all
the way up to the flooring company to cover then then they will so make sure you have good
um good policies in place one thing that I
would suggest for any flooring company is to have a master subcontract agreement with your subs and that then
governs all work all work orders that you may uh award to that subcontractor and in
that um remember we got to start calling them
trade partners trade Partners uh uh so in there you are
addressing items like um pay that they they realize you know that
that they pay their subs that it's required and that they're held liable if
the sub's not paid we'll get into some stories here of uh some catastrophes
that I have experienced in my own business um and then also make sure that your Sub
sub is like that there's some level of training and and making sure that they're capable of doing the job that we
push training here because the freaking technology changes so often and the way
that you apply different products to to the to different substrates change so
often that you have to be aware of these the new trends and things so that's why
we're always you know promoting and preaching to be part of the industry and to be plugged in but that being said
I know that at one uh one point in our uh career we did not or in our business
we did not address these items uh and we had a a project where a sub got paid and
the they hired somebody locally uh it was an out of town project and they
hired someone locally to help them with that project and to not pay them that crew then calls us actually that crew
then called The GC and said they weren't paid which looks terrible for us and
then that GC calls us and says you have Labor on your project that is saying they're not paid
you need to get a hold of this guy and get this situation rectified immediately now they don't care who owes who they
just want that problem done and and gone so we ended up just paying that that uh
local sub and I'm making sure they were whole um and then went back to our sub and and
eventually uh recovered that money from them but you're going to be out double
the money A lot of times if if that happens so make sure that your subs if
they have other subs working for them that they are responsible and that they have that attitude of taking care of
their guys taking care of their subs of their trade Partners if you're going to
take care of your trade partner make sure they're doing the same thing so is there is there something that anyone can
have in place for the future for that because I know that that's going to be a scenario that we're never going to be
able to solve it is there any literature anything any contracts that are currently out there
that give a great Chancellor of that type of partnership well the master having a good Master uh
subcontract agreement with your trade partner is important that addresses
these items there you're right in fact what I have written down here is that being said is
there any way to prevent this Dynamic and I would say no uh I mean just it's
kind of a rhetorical rhetorical question but the fact is is we can't prevent it
from happening how do you tell a company they can't hire another company to do the work you can't do that right and and
there's some of the GCS that um the contracts come through and they want you to list
any you know trade partners that you're using and there's also one underneath them that they want to know if they're
going to use any trade Partners so that way they're keeping track of everything because uh that's where like a lot of
the a lot of the guys that are kind of new to
new to it they don't really look at like the lean waivers and stuff right because it's it's always they're going through a
company don't really need to provide anything because you know what we're going to be
doing all the paperwork and doing all the lien waivers and stuff but it's it's to the point where you
know they're wanting to see everything down to the the trade partners and stuff like that so
and then once they you know I imagine over some some stuff and it's like I need this Lien Waiver
they're like what what is this and it's like like this is gonna be pretty standard
across the board now I think it's you know um yeah I mean the GCS have experienced the
same thing I just uh right said was they they've experienced Subs saying they
weren't paid by their sub which was a sub of of the overall contract holding
sub and that's a lot of Subs in the deal that's three tiers of subcontractors for
a GC the fluorine subcontractor the main holder of the contract with the general
contractor then you have your master agreement with your sub and then they have another one and what what there's
no way to prevent it but I thought what we should do is talk about best practices and how to keep things moving
forward maybe give some some of the audience some some tools and some advice
on how it's been dealt with uh both at my company and at preferred flooring
um we use the master subcontract agreement soon
um to make things a lot easier for us when a new sub comes on they'll be able to fill out our agreement right through
go Carrera so that is is coming in in an important part where our company members
will be able to have their required subcontract documents and anything they want their sub to fill out as part of
their go career sign up because you guys also do the lien waivers through Google yep
so having a good Master subcontract agreement is kind of your first line
defense of making sure that you're talking to your trade partners and making sure that they have if you if you
know that they're subbing that work down to another trade partner then ask them talk to them may ask them to
that that they get that you you know request the insurance from that third
tier trade partner and not just take it for granted or make sure that your trade
partner has an umbrella uh policy that covers anybody working on that project
with you uh those types of that type of language is in our uh masters of
contract agreement um and I that's kind of your first line of defense so what do you guys do and
what what uh what can you uh teach me on you know protecting and I just want to
be clear there's two big risks you have the risk of the the third tier trade
partner say running a forklift through a 200 000 uh you know storefront
and causing immense amount of damage and you need to be making sure that
you're protected from that and then you have the pay that you need to be make sure that you're protected from a that
standpoint that they are paid um you know we are
trying to um formulate some best practices within go Carrera that will help that with our
members which is you know having the third tier even sign
um that they have been paid uh lean release kind of thing so you know but that takes
a lot of uh that that'll be in the future immediately we have to know ways that we
can protect our companies and our our employees and our people from losing
money because uh a third tier trade partner did not have the appropriate insurance or did
not have their ducks in a row so I think we've been uh pretty fortunate to where
yeah where any of our partners that were hiring it's just them and no one
underneath them because the the projects that we're handling are just
you know pretty simple right um the the guys in-house are handling are the more complicated stuff which is
sounds backwards when you think about it right but we like to keep them busy yeah we do the same thing I would say
our in-house guys we try to keep them busy first and so they're gonna you know do right keep them busy first and then
sub everything else out we do have a master's up uh trade partner contract
which you know we have in there that they need to carry the insurances and
you know they we we're not going to be held liable for something that they do and they're responsible for pretty much
all the punch lists and all that stuff and then um I also have in their document that I
have them signed that says if they don't have workers comp then
they need to get they're signing it right and they need to get the exclusion or they're they are working by
themselves um what dynamic well why do you guys think
that this Dynamic is present in our industry
oh man um
licensing required there's no structure per se on how it
on how it should be tiered there's there there's a template but there's so many
loopholes in that template that there's no no set structure that can be followed because you can it's a trickle effect
you can have uh a trade contractor and have a trickle-down of other contractors
underneath them as long as they're meeting the minimum requirement right um and the minimum requirement is across
the board um like like our insurance and our liability might be higher than um a lot
of the individuals that we were hire um but that's because we're taking on a little bit more like you we're taking
our larger contracts we're assuming more liability Not only was the uh labor
aspect but with the material you know and everybody has to be listed as uh
co-insured the labor portion uh the big contractors don't have to worry about anyone
um but I just feel like besides the minimal structure that is
set forth by uh federal and state laws I think that's pretty much it and every state is is inconsistent right from
state to state is different would you say the the ideal structure like for me
anyway the ideal structure is if I hire uh
a trade partner to do a job that then the the installers under them are
that are working for them are employees that's ideal that
is ideal and like you said why is this like this right and it I think it all goes back to like when I say that I got
into the the industry I started getting paid on the 10.99 and I had no idea what was going on until I went to file my
taxes and they're like oh yeah by the way you owe us this much money it's the same thing with this owner starts to do
things and bring people on it I'm paid like this I'm gonna pay you like this
like they don't do the research to know that that's wrong and then
um a lot of the times I think what happens is they they start doing it and then by the time they realize that it's
wrong they're like well I don't want to change because human nature you know humans
don't like change yes what could happen the consequences
right like and for one admitting that you're admitting your wrongs yeah you
did not know something and that you might have failed and kind of slid between the cracks so to speak
um that's always hard but it's just getting those next steps and
that's where the separation too comes from uh owning a job versus a business is
you know it's sad to say that some some of these uh let's just call them work rooms because I think that's what they're referred to as boardrooms
they're the ones that are pretty much putting the bill for all the insurance and uh one of the I don't know the exact
inner workings but based off of what I've been told is there's a percentage taken off of the top and this work room
is hired to have X amount of jobs and they stay busy they have a lot but these
other companies hire them because they know that they have the resources to get the jobs done but instead of educating
these other trade Partners who are just starting or don't want to move up they
um they keep them stagnant they don't educate them on uh some of the laws some
of the rules some of the regulations they keep them stagnant and say just give me a percentage of what I'm telling
you you're going to get paid and I'll take care of the rest not knowing that them taking care of the rest really
isn't doing them any favors at all like they're still going to be held responsible yeah and
you know when you start talking about the big work rooms uh or Workshop
companies out there so you know I've had experience with some that all of them are employees and
that's awesome the ones who do re-sub the workout uh to
another trade partner the the the you don't always know that is that is
what's so um scary about it like you you don't
know if they treat them like an employee um right that they are another that they
are not a true W-2 uh without auditing that per that company's you know
financial situation uh your trade Partners uh you know finances so to
speak to to learn that I mean really you just gotta ask questions I think and be
aware of what the how the trade Partners set up how is their business set up and
get to know it you know a thought just came to mind I wonder if like asking
that question with have them uh you know almost a yes or no question in the
master uh agreement do you sub your work out or or your uh is your work performed
by employees at least you would know this like when we're working for GCS right they have a pre-qualification that
is one of the questions what percentage of your work is done in-house and what percentage of your
work is subbed out they they these are the things they want to know not only that it's when we're we're trying to
work with someone they want to know everything they want our balance sheet they want our profit and laws they want
to know everything about your company for you to work for them and I think that's what a lot of people that aren't
in the position that we're in realizes that once you do get here you're pretty much you got to be an open book anyways
in order to get some of the work and then when we go and ask them you know a simple question it's like why are you
even asking me this it's like I mean because we gotta know normalized
to where transparency is key right where it's like I mean I'm giving out all of
my information all I'm asking you is if you're using someone else like it's essential it goes like it goes like this
is um the reason that we ask this question is because we're doing the same things you're doing by not wanting to
answer the question we're trying to protect our business so we're asking because we're trying to protect ourselves right we're trying to
make things are in line with what we're trying to do what we're trying to build and with what's expected from us
that is the same reason that individuals don't want to answer those questions because they're trying to protect what
they have going on early um and if if they were to make the connection with
the right people and get educated uh under the right circumstances they would understand the business aspect and
realize that some of these workers who are doing it um I don't think the wrong way let's just
say who are who are not ethical on it right um from a governance standpoint
um who are doing it that way if they were just to use their efforts and their smarts to do everything the right way they could probably have a very large
successful employee-based business instead of a contractor or a community
partner business that that's really what the industry needs is Subs to hire employee installers and get and train
them up and charge the amount that they need to charge to have them as an employee and not as a Sub sub uh or
trade partner trade partner you know like that that would be like I said
earlier on that would be ideal um you know but we are in reality and in reality
Subs our trade Partners or our subcontractors do hire other trade
Partners or subcontractors to do the work now why that relationship is there is anyone's guess but the there's
there's like what you said Daniel if there's two
guys or two or three guys that are all getting work and they team up on jobs
and then sometimes they'll do them on their own but sometimes they're teamed up well those are all individual owners
that can exclude themselves for more calm um I would encourage you not to do that
honestly if you don't have health insurance on the outside like work comp is not that expensive for yourself
and if you hurt yourself where you're going to go if you don't have normal insurance right so I believe as
proprietor we have to exclude ourselves um you don't you don't have to
not not in Kansas you don't I don't know it's actually an additional form that we
have to fill out so yeah um so I started thinking too and um you
were right about the uh the Cyber trade contractor um like they're gonna keep hiring and
keep hiring right and I mean potential solutions for them like if they don't want to get in trouble that's what it is
I think they just don't want to assume responsibility of that individual those wages um but if they didn't if they wanted to
avoid trouble the real way to do it is onto all the forms which could get
really messy I don't and I don't think that it's only people they don't want to do it yeah they don't
it's not that some people don't want to do it it's that they don't know how to do it right
yeah or they just don't know like you said when you first got going you didn't
realize that you were gonna get this big tax bill I would just say this one statement if you're a young new
installer that's just getting trained or you've you you want to get into this
industry be an employee find a way to work for either a company or a a
workshop a work shop that that um that will hire you as an employee do
that for the first three to five years and then if you want to go out and sub you'll you'll be more prepared for it at
the very least just know that you're going to be responsible for the taxes and I've watched it too many times uh
our trade Partners get into trouble because they get behind on taxes and such so just realize you're going to
have to pay all that the company's not paying for it they don't have the responsibility to do so it's your job
and your it's it's your responsibility to cover the taxes on that so if you're being paid as a 1099
through a workshop or through by a company just realize you are really you are
liable for all that so I encourage every new guy to work for somebody for as an
employee for as long as you can and hopefully you find a good home and you can uh you know stay on there for long
term we have several installers at our team at sna that are an accountant
blah blah blah all those uh all those uh things I guess I need to say but
you it is preferred and it is looked upon better if you do that you'll get
you'll get by better and you're paying taxes that's what they want people the
government wants you to pay your taxes not avoid them if you can if you have
legitimate deductions and you have legitimate ways to uh offset your
taxable income wonderful that is all legal nothing wrong with it
however pain pain taxes on your income uh you know and separating those two is
a good it's just a good practice to do if you can um that's my opinion
and then um some of the guys out there who um do have a lot of other trade partners that work with them or under
them and don't don't feel like you have to have a brick and mortar until classify two thousand employees you can
do that out here you can use your kitchen as an office and still classify people you don't need a physical uh
brick and mortar so to speak or Warehouse or a business you can you can still do that it doesn't have to be a
physical location um the paper doesn't discriminate in a physical location but the same on paper
um to everybody we were working out of a storage unit foreign
yeah I mean I thought the the the last part that maybe
we can hit on is who's properly training or making sure that the third tier trade partner is
receiving the training uh a good subcontractor a good labor provider
trade partner will make sure that their subs or their trade partners are at
least have access to to training and understand them or help them get to them something has to be done if you're not
going to treat them as an employee and send them to the training at least have a good
um a good system in place where you have
trainings at your at your place or maybe the flooring company that you work with
uh has trainings that you can make sure that all your guys are a part of
um there again they're not your employees so you can't force them but giving the opportunity and making sure
that they know that the opportunities are there that's I mean huge like because
um like Jose and Chris are in Georgia this week for an AFC team
they got a resilient class that they're launching with uh Andy and Kevin from novalis
they already did the sub straight and subfloor so they missed out on today it
actually started today but it looks like they had a pretty good turnout and then I actually uh yeah
John Curtis is uh in North Carolina right now at the Sim program
so it's it's all about and like you say reinvesting in the business right you
invest in the people to to go out and learn something so that they can invest back into their business
as well yeah a lot of the contractors I'm sorry
um as far as the subcontractors uh you're right though I'm like we can give advice and help one-on-one
at the shop or say hey this training is available hey let me connect you with with some of uh some of the trainings
out there but it's really up to them because you know like then that notorious kind of hard to just
pray for them to do something knowing that they don't have to come and do or use any of that knowledge that they
gained um for any of the work for you they don't they can choose not to work for you anymore after that class
um and it's just a little bit harder to do that allow kudos to the people who can do that and they do keep
themselves busy enough to know that they're not going anywhere anytime soon but then again
it probably should be classified as employees because they know they're not going anywhere well there's not a
we all want to have loyal people but you got to think of it like your GC thinks
of it I don't have one GC as good a relationships as we have it gives us
every single project and they do that on purpose they don't want me or our
company to be misclassified as an employee uh because every job they do is
done by us and so Subs out there I I know there's a big Desire by other
flooring companies out there to hoard their subcontractors or their trade partners and not you know want them to
go to do any work for any competitor at any time well you're breaking the law I
I don't know how to say it gently you're breaking the law that guy is and it may
not have come home to roost yet but you know one of the things we try to make sure of if we see one of our trade
Partners doing too much work with us and not with anyone else will literally not
work them for a little bit and until they have to go do some work elsewhere
most of them just naturally through our slow time or something to the Ebbs and
flow of business we'll go grab a job or two from another flooring contractor and
you know we invite that we we feel like that's the that is one of the cleanest ways to prove that they are not your
employee if they come to work for you on Monday Tuesday Wednesday and then for
the next week and a half they're working for someone down the street well it's a clear identifier that they're not your
your employee that's not an employee Arrangement and that they're free to go out and earn business and find business
elsewhere so I would encourage people that think that you want to hoard your subs to reconsider and understand that
like that that is a big thing that some something that is a big thing the IRS is
going after trying to grab that money that they're they feel like they're missing so please
for those companies out there who are listening or or trade Partners subcontractors if you will if you
haven't yet you're not probably up to the trade partner or uh lingo yet um
if there was only a program out there or something available that can help them with that right help them share
um in the the contractors that do the installations for them so that way they're not put in a bad position right
dig them another Avenue to find additional work you know you're going to keep them busy but hey sometimes you got
to let them go for a minute to save yourself and if somebody else has work because there was only a program out
there that could probably help facilitate that I don't I don't know maybe you guys know something about that and he says that you can't fire him but
you can give them incentives right and that kind of goes to we've touched on this with employees or too right it's
like show me that you're worth more and it's the same thing with with the subs is because we've been in that position
we know people that have been in that position where like this this is you're not paying me enough well show me that
you're you're worth more yeah in a way a sub could do that or a trade partner could do that is by
showing that all your all your installers are in fact employee installers that goes a long way I mean I
understand this might be like yeah well you you know the flooring companies don't want to hire the employees so why
are we being uh you know why is the burden being put on us as a as a trade
partner to hire them as employees well I think flooring companies should hire as employees I if if I'm honest I would
hire mostly employees most of the time uh unfortunately our Market just doesn't
have enough people that desire to work that way and so we have to work with subcontractors and we're fine doing it
we have great relationships with our subs but I would still just say that
you know someone through this process it can't just be chaos and like when when you go to war
or when countries you know go to battle back in the day they there weren't you
have individual platoons that are that all make eventually a company that make a brigade blah blah blah well they're
all in unison they're all working together just because they're an individual uh
platoons doesn't mean they're not working together and staying informed uh that's kind of a bad analogy but the
point here is having if if you have if you're a trade partner a first-tier
kind of guy that has a bunch of Subs underneath you that are working for you they at least have to
um understand and kind of operate under the same thing that you are doing
does that make sense I know what that might be confused what I'm trying to say is that no I hired this I hired this
trade partner for his skills and ability I don't want to get this trade partner that is that's working under him that
doesn't have that same skill and ability or or at least the same approach to a project
well that that's uh it goes all goes back to a conversation that I had with a wise man when you're on the on the road
to a restaurant where he said that you can't take the 1099 away because it
kills the entrepreneurship and that's what this country was built on most entrepreneurial skills right yeah
completely take that away however if people understood that they were better classified
somewhere else and they could experience more consistent success as an employee
because of their shortcomings as a business owner are because of uh their
lack of attention to getting better ugly cracked and they can be exposed to a wider range of education and maybe some
of that education would be how to be a better business owner but
we're never going to get rid of the 1099 so I was going to be there but it utilized the right way in the right
manner by the right people you could have a lot more success the success I think if you look at our the design of
our industry it's just uh a little off because even the
the organizations that are trying to pull the newcomers in they keep on pushing them into being You Can Be Your
Own Boss you can do this you can do that and it's like why don't we start telling them
something else right off the get-go right I think the problem though Daniel is there's not enough companies hiring
employees so they can't place them with companies and they end up getting into this whole mix and I I get it but at the
end of the day that if you are new to this industry if
you can possibly get a job as an employee for a little while and I love
our trade Partners our subs and 1099 Crews like we I have no I'm not against
that whatsoever uh the the the piece that I'm trying to address is just
to help them not get into tax problems and to properly train so that they're
able to produce a consistent product and obviously stay out of trouble
um but yeah as long as we're bringing people in and telling them they could be their own boss out of the gate I think
that's the dangerous part because you what what business Acumen have you
achieved by that part by that point um I don't know you know there's some
there's some uh companies out there like footprint floors that does a good job of
training the people to be business owners and then those those franchisees
for footprint floors then um they get all this really high quality training from a business perspective
they go through some Technical Training to learn the the trade if they don't already know it but then they hire Subs
to to actually perform the work but they as a as a sub so to speak or as a trade
partner they they have the business knowledge to fall back on and that's the
piece that we don't train well in our industry right and that's kind of like I mean as
we have a board in the the office but back in the day I uh I came up like hey what if we were just to bring people
around and whatever I'm saying like the contract let's teach them all aspects and try to have them uh you know at x
amount two three four five years they can either choose to stay an employee or they can choose to go ahead and go on
their own and we'll help and we'll support that and kind of like give them a little nudge on their way or you know
I don't want to say push them off equipment like I'm learning how to slide because you know I think they're not flying they're falling right so yeah
um so it said dad and uh a while ago and it's just you're right it's just one of
those things like yeah you could be a business owner but you know you can't put someone in
college for all these years and tell them they're going to make x amount of dollars a year and they're still gonna
fail if they don't know how to handle the finances that they're going to be bringing in right
Rollin says that the IRS knows that Subs are using people that they can't track so the only thing they can do is come
after the dealer and kind of wish he was on here so he could uh kind of elaborate on that but I have
read in the past before um like when we were making the transition about how it's almost a
trickle up thing right though they'll come to us and then we can't prove anything so then they they come to the
dealer and it'll go all the way up into you know the the construction company
that you're working for and it's like who's going to end up paying this it's uh people need to keep track of this
stuff and we've had um meetings with some of the construction companies and they were
pretty honest about everything and they were like who is doing this we need to know
yeah well I feel like we could go a whole another
hour here on this topic but we are nearing the end
um I think some big takeaways is make sure if you're a company uh hiring trade
partners that you have a good uh Master subcontract agreement on the installer
or trade partner labor provider side try to make sure that you
um you know that you care about a training and B get knowledgeable on
how you're paid understand how you're paid and what that means to you financially
and what your what Your liabilities are there from attacks and uh Insurance perspective
uh it's not a the funnest topic to talk about but it's it's deep and uh we'll
probably do another one on this because I don't know that we you know we scratched the surface but I don't know
that we came up with a ton of solutions you know I think that you have to it
there's steps to it right and a lot of the the guys don't even keep track of their income or their expenses so maybe
we can talk to you know have one about about that even it's like start with
something and then work up to the next thing because that's that's kind of like the same thing that we did you know
maybe we should have about our conversation maybe we should have some people on the podcast uh like an insurance agency or
um somebody's uh CPA just so that way they can explain it um I think I think next time that we
shoot this we should have some experts on from insurance and an accountant and
kind of talk through that with with uh people who are certified and trained to
talk about it I just have a lot of experience and I know you guys to do that as well so
all right guys well we're nearing the go ahead Robin says that he's working
with dealers fighting the workplace fraud act in Maryland so that is you
know showing proof I'd like to know more about other people that yeah that are misclassifying right and
it's a trickle up effect so if if you're not doing something right it's going to get to the dealers and dealers don't
want to deal with that stuff either so it's on them to also realize that they have to
at least pass on the information that they know yeah don't worry when they get caught with their pants down they're going to
figure out a way to put it all back on you plus some because they're not just worried about you it's certainly important uh I'd love
to pick Roland's mind on what yeah we do yeah I know I've got to
schedule you rolling yeah come on rolling all right guys well hey to the audience
if you like the content if you've enjoyed the podcast and you understand what we're trying to do here you find
Value please consider subscribing liking uh what whatever platform you're
watching on you know give us a comment or a like um and uh we appreciate the attendance
uh thank you as always to my friends at preferred flooring up in Michigan for
you know helping this podcast be um as informative as it is I really
appreciate you guys and uh from there we will see you next uh week same time
Central uh three o'clock Central Time every single Tuesday
anything signing out fellas sorry I was walking around making everybody dizzy
all right guys well I appreciate you guys appreciate the input and uh to our audience again consider giving us a like
And subscribe and we will see you guys next week all right see ya all right
thanks guys
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 35 - WIFI (Women In the Flooring Industry) Mentorship Program
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose are joined by the Crystal Sims, Shannon Vogel, and Andrea Blackbourn from the WIFI Mentorship Program. To learn more about the FCIF or the WIFI Program, use the links below.
https://www.fcif.org - The Floor Covering Industry Foundation gets families back on their feet when battling catastrophic injuries, severe disabilities, or other life-altering medical crises.
https://www.womeninflooring.org - WIFI is here to empower, connect, support, encourage, develop, educate, inspire and attract current and future women in the floorcovering industry while playing a major role in the growth and future of the floor covering industry and the next generation of women in flooring.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome to the huddle we're here
every Tuesday at three o'clock to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
we have some special guests with us today I'll call it the ladies of Wi-Fi
um Andrea Crystal's on uh we may have a couple more joining us as well with me
as always Mr Daniel and Jose's here I think he's getting water or something right I was gonna say in his brother
that's not there uh Jose from preferred Florida wasn't a lot of weight [Laughter]
so uh today what we're gonna go through is um you know women in flooring uh it's
been a topic here on the Huddle before and I'll introduce our guests here and
and let them tell a bit about themselves uh Andrea you want to kick us off and let us know a little bit about you
sure uh Andrea Blackburn and I'm here in Dalton Georgia the carpet capital of the
world and I am the executive director of The Floor Covering industry foundation
and I am a board member on the women in floor covering nonprofit awesome so
that's what Wi-Fi stands for women in floor covering industry industry yes
women in the Floor Covering industry yes awesome Shannon uh
welcome to the Huddle would you like to kind of tell us a little bit about yourself sure my name is Shannon Vogel
and I'm the owner of a social media company social that specializes in the flooring industry
and um I'm on here today because I think we're going to talk about mentoring and Crystal Sims is um someone that I've
been mentoring for a little over a year now and uh excited to have this conversation
awesome Crystal welcome this is not your first trip on the Huddle but uh you want to
chime in and say hi to the guests
hi sorry I'm still uh you're still on the job site right now yeah
like a true warrior yeah
um are you embarrassed about show you oh show you the job site yeah asked about your co-workers that's why you don't
want to have them on video they could probably have their butt cracks hanging out they're flying people
par for the flooring industry a standard issue
getting ready to clean up taking this on location okay sorry you can
awesome so
um a little bit about Wi-Fi maybe uh origin story how did this come to be
yeah um so Emily Finkel who who some of you
may know she is a design professional in the flooring industry and had a long
career at Shaw Industries and then retired and started her own curated
collection of flooring and Interiors called Emily Morrow home and then she recently
has taken a position as a vice president in the design area at engineered floors
but Emily started Wi-Fi was her idea and I think their first conversation was
with Tanya Kern who's one of um our friends in that's a an editor of
Fortunes magazine and they were kind of the first two that was like we you know
should start a non-profit that can really pull women together can provide opportunities for networking education
and really highlight flooring as um a fun and engaging profitable career
for women and from there they started to recruit people to join the board I had
known Emily for several years because we both are from the Dalton Georgia area and worked with her on a previous
non-profit and women's group for a different
um non-industry non-profit and she invited me to join the board along with
several other women and we started working on putting together the
organization its structure um it's 501c3 and the rest is history I
guess so it's a it's a non-profit to promote women and flooring of all different
um areas from like Crystal installer to some manufacturing reps and and uh
possibly even Tech reps and just women and flooring in general correct yeah retailers
Distributors all across the industry awesome and you guys have a mentoring
program within Wi-Fi is that is that also correct yes we just launched our
first cohort of mentoring an adult to adult match um so it's centered around professional
and personal development I think for me when I think of mentoring always think of like Big Brothers Big Sisters like
you're going to have a fifth grader you're gonna go eat lunch with this is not that this is an adult friend and
um that's why I was so glad Shannon was able to get on to talk about her relationship with Crystal
um but I think that this we've had a lot of interest um The Forum is live on the um on the
Wi-Fi website so you can sign up to be a mentor or a mentee it's a six-month match and as part of the intake process
you can specify your skills that you have to offer what you think that
um others could glean from you and then if you're a mentee what you would how
you would like to grow professionally and so we have a committee so you match on the on the on the the skill of the
mentor and the need of the mentee yes well you're you're on the right podcast
that's what we do at go Carrera with flooring installers how about that oh well here we go
so yeah um that's that's um you know with the rise of
some I'd say awareness that people like Crystal have brought to uh our industry
that it's a viable uh profession whether it's installer social running social
media for for dealers or companies um it sounds like a really good
opportunity for women to get guided through the process of maybe this industry
um in a creative but also very rewarding way so Shannon you want to give us some
background of how you met Crystal and how that all came to be and you be you're a mentor for crystal
yeah so it's kind of a cool story um I was asked to be an ambassador for Tyson and newcomers meeting and
um I came in and I think Jose actually started the conversation and planted a
seed and then Jim Aaron from fcef and I started talking about we had some
things in common being from South Carolina and something just sparked where Daniel was the third piece and he
said you really should go meet my sister um I feel like there's some synergies there and Crystal was about to
um do her competition the next day and she was struggling a little bit with public speaking and you know just all
the things that we struggle with being seen in public and being heard and using your voice and just the Stars aligned
and I was like girl sit down a minute I got 10 things I'm going to tell you right now if you remember two you're
going to do better than you did before we had this conversation I don't know where this is going so I gave her all of
these tips on public speaking and just whatever was in my heart at that moment
and um she just looked at me and she goes you know my brother told me I need a
mentor and I think you're the one would you be willing to be my mentor and um literally it was the stars aligning
for the perfect relationship that had somebody called me and said hey you need to call this girl environment tour I
would have been like yeah I probably don't have time for that right now but her energy and enthusiasm and willing to
grow and learn just lit my soul on fire and we meet um whether it's once a week once a month
however often we both can we jump on a zoom and we have what's funny is I
thought why can't be her Mentor because like I don't have a degree in that I don't have a certificate for that like I don't have a checklist for that and she
was like I'm not expecting a checklist I just want help so we Have No Agenda we
just start talking about whatever is going on and what is so crazy and cool
is that there are times where I'm the teacher and there's sometimes where she's the teacher and nine times out of
ten we are going through the exact same thing having the same experience the same struggles were different ages from
different states we do completely different jobs in the industry but we have so much in common and just watching
her growth and progress and how fast she learns and has evolved I'm in full
support of the Wi-Fi mentoring program and anything that I can do to contribute to that process because watching
watching how much crystal is grown and how much I have grown from Crystal's experience is I mean it really is one of
the greatest joys of what I do yeah it must be real satisfying to have
um not just to Mentor somebody but to have that connection like that right
outside looking in right you said that it's adults and it's not like a five-year-old sitting at a lunch table
but I've seen it they become five-year-olds sitting at them just having fun and then we try to drag you
into our lunch table and I swear I'm gonna change my last name to Vogel Gonzalez dash part Sims a family has
welcomed me in and been super vulnerable and just generous with their heart and
information and we I think we've all grown we don't know any other way to be honest
like you got to kind of wear who you are on your sleeve right if you're trying to hide something you're still trying to
hide and the idea is not to hide the idea is to to be yourself uh out in the
open wide open Full Throttle all day every day well that's a real um attribute that you guys have to be
honest with you is you open out you're you're very transparent with the way that you approach business I mean that's
what attracted me to you guys and and we became friends and it's that those when
those synergies happen it's pretty special and Crystal do you have time to chime in on what Shannon uh said about
your guys's kind of gearing up and becoming friends and the mentor uh
process with her I always have time to talk about Shannon
um yeah just like she said the the night we met it was really
I think that was the first day of the competition the day we met and uh I was just in a really tough spot mentally
because it was a lot to process that day and still to this day where I I used one of
the pieces of my advice that she gave me and that was uh when you're feeling um
scared or nervous or you know fierce in setting in write those fears down on a
piece of paper and when you walk into wherever you're going throw it in the trash and and leave it there and
for some reason I did that the next day and I came in with a whole new attitude
and ever since then it's like like she said everything the way that we connect is
extremely special and the way that she connects with my entire family and anybody she comes around to be honest
um I love Shannon too right
it's been a really neat experience to have that Mentor like I told Daniel I
think that day that I realized that he was my mentor that you know for the last eight nine years
whatever it had been and I was like I really am looking for something
I was looking for something more more deep more personal um a guidance of a woman who's strong
and powerful and when I met Shannon it was just like this is everything I need and yeah that night I asked her to be my
mentor and I think that it's extremely powerful to have someone walk alongside
you in in life and for us to be complete strangers and be completely comfortable
with each other it's been really uh life-changing for both of us I would say and tell that you guys were ever
strangers to be honest yeah we passed lives we've known each other one cool
thing to add on to that was crystal with you know one of the things we talked about early on was she was like I don't want Daniel to feel like he's not good
enough or not enough to be my mentor and I was like we're gonna put all that pressure on me go have five things to
teach you that I can't teach you I'm going to teach you things he can't teach you because he hasn't been a woman in this industry if you're lucky enough to
have five people walking alongside you and helping you more power to you it's not it's not to me versus Daniel because
we have so many different things to contribute yeah that's a good point many times just
as a note with mentoring I I went through different business coaches and
different mentors myself and oftentimes uh having a couple I couldn't I I had a
mentor teaching me how to copyright because I couldn't I couldn't write an email to save my life in my mid-20s and
I was growing my business and I so I reached out to someone who teaches
copywriting and they had a very specific skill set in a very specific way of teaching me that point is is that often
we need more than just you know that one point of view or that one angle and I
would assume that in being a woman in in the construction field flooring in
particular that comes with its own bit of challenges can you guys speak to some of those challenges that you faced and
how you overcame them oh now turn me loose I'll get on this one well you you've only got like 15 minutes
so yeah I gotta jump in a minute uh if you want I'll start um go ahead so I started in constructing
flooring in a family business in a small town and I'll never forget things and I'm not bashing guys at all I am team
you know I'm all friends with guys I'm not putting anybody down or put anybody in an off light
but I had a rep come in and I said hey I've got this big commercial project I'm really proud of it it's a ton of square
footage it was a great product I wasn't beating him up for price I was just like I need you know I need my price and I
thought oh that looked kind of high so I go to my father who I was not allowed to call Dad I had to call him Steve because
no special treatment because you know if you're in a family business it's twice as hard try to be a female family
business with you know all men in your family and the rep gave my dad
and my ex-husband a better price than he gave me and I was like do you think we don't
talk to each other so that's one one part we can talk about the second is
um when I go to a trade show like I would do everything in my power just to shake things up in general anyway so
I'll go get on stage or do whatever it is that I'm doing and I'll wear a really nice you know Fancy Pants Nordstrom suit
and really nice expensive shiny shoes and then I'll start talking and then
I'll take off my jacket and people see my tattoos and then they see my funny colored hair and then they honestly look
at my chest and they can't reconcile what's happening and they start talking to me differently and then if I've been
home recently and my Southern accent comes out then they'll start talking to me like I'm stupid and it is my superpower to flip it
around and just say like the most intelligent thing I could possibly muster to come up with and then
literally watch their brain not be able to reconcile what's happening the whole idea of talking to me like I'm less than
or Dumber because I'm a woman just makes no sense especially I've got
25 years of experience in this industry and I've done every job there is except being a rep I know my so
um yeah those are my two those are my two sub boxes to get us going well that that's a that's a good push down the
hill right there uh Andrea what about you and have you I and and I get it this is not
meant to be a man-bashing thing that's not the purpose most most of the time it's it's uh
a matter of lack of uh exposure and lack of of knowledge right they're uh not
stupid just a bit ignorant to the uh Dynamics and working with women
specifically in a construction industry you know we have a lot of general
contractors over the last 15 years you'll you'll have a you have a pretty
good chance to have a female project manager or a female project uh
engineer or you know even superintendents but uh so I feel like
you know that it's the path is getting better on this but a lot of that still
happens for sure I said it faces probably a lot of
Industries and a lot of workplaces um I have spent my career working in
fundraising and non-profits and um spend a lot of time on the board side
and um your your boards tend to be heavier male than female
and um so that you know you're dealing with executive level people who are primarily
male lots of times they're um can be significantly older than you and so I think that the Dynamics of that
is just being aware of different people's communication styles that may be related to their gender it may be
related to the area of their country uh area of the country um I've been with the Floor Covering
industry foundation for almost six years now and it was my first experience with having a board that was remote and
spread across the country and so people talk different people have different
ways that they interact than um people do in in the South
and definitely the the gender you know it can be easy to interpret something as
targeted at you in a certain way because of your gender but you but there's also
a lot of other variables that lead people um to how you experience them and so one
of the things that I have kind of as a saying in their family is always assumed
um assume somebody's doing their best and it really takes takes it off the
plate of feeling like that that you are not getting something that you deserve
it may be that someone else just has a different perspective um one of the things with women I'm sure
that y'all have heard this statistic or out there on the internet that if there's a job listing and there's 10
different criteria for that job that women feel like they have to have all 10 of them to apply for it whereas men
don't feel like they have to have two or three and they feel like they're qualified and they should apply for it and so I think that one of the things
that I thought was really interesting about Crystal and Shannon's relationship is that they're not in the same sector
and just how powerful it is to be able to realize your skill set and how it
might be transferable to a different um part of the industry and also to have
someone who's cheerleading you um you know who's in your back corner who's like you know what you could do
that you could do this you Crystal you can stand up in front of an audience and speak I just saw her do that at Tyson
she was great and I think that those connections it's kind of feeling like
that you've um with a mentor that you have a cheerleader or that you have a a
coach that you can really be honest with about your insecurities and there's some
safe space there maybe you don't want to say to your boss what you think your weaknesses are but your Mentor creates
that space where you feel like that you can be vulnerable that you can talk
about things that you want to do different where you can share experiences and how they can help be
Workshop how to make those go better next time so I don't have a ton of uh
great stories about in charity and non-profit you know people lots of times are their best selves and so I've had
some really good work environments some good folks surrounding me um but it's also been just really cool
to see this group of women launch this group and really see the
enthusiasm around it well I think it a lot of it boils down to awareness
I was talking uh I've got a friend that's a a male nurse I mean he he he's
a guy and he's not getting it's not a sexist thing it just when you see a male
nurse and he's got hairy arms and he's got really hairy arms it's like it's just it's it's not always like
uh obviously with some of the stuff you pointed out shared was clearly that way but I'm saying first perception
sometimes is just somebody in a position that we don't recognize as normal and so
we act weird about it the truth is is that humans can do a lot of different things in general and it's your own
personal like uh desire of what you want to do in the world right so if you want
to be a male nurse be a male nurse if you want to be a female Florian installer bring it on right so uh Crystal I I
wanted to ask you a question I I know that you and Shannon obviously hit it
off right away but with your you're you come off a little shy
sometimes right and you may have been how did you overcome that to ask Shannon
to be your mentor
I believe that would have taken some courage um it did and I was and I was extremely
nervous and I was shaking but but that's where I needed growth and so
I can't grow if I'm scared to even ask those simple questions and that's definitely something she's shown me
um and even family so sorry yeah we've
actually established that I'm extremely introverted uh which I didn't even know surprisingly
but um even those first couple meetings that we had together I was I was uh a
little bit hesitant to be myself I guess but
lost that pretty quick now I'm just crazy I think she would agree
crazy amazing it's cool when we do video calls and you'll watch crystal get a
light bulb and then when she gets her notebook out and she starts writing it down I'm like that sat with her that resonated that's going to come back
let's keep working on that and one of the things that we talk about when she gets one of those light bulb moments is the world's going to give you a lot of
practice opportunities once you're open to that lesson that you're about to learn so this is not all fun and games
it's not all easy it's not all you know sunshine and rainbows it's hard work but that hard work is paying off and and
really I think like I said her growth is um just incredible to watch so right
there uh Shannon you said the hard work right and I just kind of want to add a piggyback off of your guys's
um interpretation of of being a woman in the industry is you know it almost
sounds like history just keeps repeating itself over and over right uh when you come from you know the times when
segregation was coming in and and people of color were coming in because you know I I didn't live through that part right
I was on the back end of that for sure uh 80s but coming into to the flooring
industry for me was kind of the same it wasn't in the same instance right but
we still had to face diversity coming in because I wasn't respected as a leader I
wasn't respected as the guy running the crew because I was a person I was a Hispanic male and usually people of my
demographic didn't speak English and they were doing drywall they weren't leading Crews of guys twice their age
and actually better than them so it was different coming in so I think um
I think even from now into the next 20 years we're gonna have to start over with another demographic coming in and
being the first and being um the the first group to establish
himself and set presidents the way that women are starting to do I want to say women have been doing it for years but
now it's like everywhere if nobody has got uh their own individual uh platforms
to um speak their voice and to stand up for one another then I think that that's
weird to me but just so you guys know I think we're going to keep repeating this and and I love Yeah well maybe maybe not
as much as you think if we can start thinking like Andrea just spoke which is assume that people are doing their best
work and assuming that assume the good first like assume that it's a good male
nurse assume that it's a good female instructor minded right they have to be more open-minded because I even had ties when
we you know um gentlemen approached me and he's like I don't even understand saying this
whole women in flooring thing because I was like we were over here today and he's like I don't understand that like why can't everyone just be equal and
it's like you do realize that that is the entire goal so
like come on man like just have an open mind you can't say oh I respect what
they're doing but I just don't understand it and I don't want it to be like this it's like if you if just come in with an open mind
let everyone you know balance themselves out and that the only way to do that is
you know programs like this where it's it is it's you know putting people in the spotlight and saying you know we are
equal we are here let's start treating it as such so that way you know years
down the road it it doesn't have to be that way yeah IT addresses the the
um awareness part of it that's really the the whole goal if if it's not as if
you're trying to form your separate group to then segregate yourself away from Men In flooring the whole idea I
would assume is like bring awareness to the fact that hey we're just because
we're women we are really good at this too and we can you know we got an
installer that almost has has competed in installer over the year we have plenty of examples of sales reps and
leaders and and and uh people like Shannon do you own your own
uh company doing the social media do you work or something right before you leave I do I'm doing my own company I'm about
to turn into a pumpkin I have to jump off but thank you all so much for this conversation I really appreciate the
opportunity to be a part of it and um if there's another one uh sign me up I love this group tell us quickly uh how people
can find you like social wise uh you can find me anywhere on social media Shannon my maiden name is Bilby b-i-l-b-y Vogel
um I've got the same picture everywhere it's um short hair it's probably blonde I've got a full sleeve of tattoos
um Shannon reach social dot media um but yeah I'm all over the Internet so just find me anywhere and reach out
connect even if we don't know each other you can connect with me on LinkedIn or Facebook and I'm happy to probably knows
yeah she probably knows it to put you in my community awesome great thanks well thanks for joining us today thank you
for being on and uh thank you appreciate y'all take care thanks so one thing I do want to add is
um you know going to the women's portion and sitting in and watching how they
interact any men out there listening who are having a hard time accepting that we
have to as a group come together man women are so empowering of each other
but everything like all encompassing right like some of the guys out there are all women's empowerment This Woman's
empowerment that you know what no it's empowerment period because we could learn a lot from them to be honest in a
way that they they support each other when they ask me why I was there I said you know I'm here to learn from them
and there's a lot of people there that are smarter than me so I was learning a lot of stuff
yeah well I guess what I was getting at is that a lot of
times um you get men will tear each other down specifically in installation and you
know we might we might step back and learn a valuable lesson of what it's like to support one another we we
promote that a lot on this podcast the huddles of you know it's like we're a big family and a huddle and it's about
supporting one another don't there's no need to tear each other down like let's try to get better as an industry that's
gonna you know they'll uh Rising tide uh you know uh lifts offices All Ships so
like that's the attitude we should have so I also
go ahead I just wanted to kind of piggyback off of that too I was going to say that that's one of the reasons women
have these uh conferences and things because we'd like to empower each other
and like Daniel's experience how there was a gentleman who didn't understand it we
are oftentimes not understanded um on that or understand it understand
we are not understanding that's a new shirt for us
um but that and I I really thought it was cool that I think there were
maybe five guys that ended up coming to the Women's Conference in Las Vegas and
every all of the women there were super excited for that support and it would be really cool if if more men showed up to
just kind of get an idea of how we Empower each other and the things that
that we could do to make the world a better place and assume that everyone's doing their best and I
think that's a misconception right because or like it's just the information isn't out there because you
you hear a Women's Conference and you think oh this is just going to be all women but and and then like men are loud
or something small print right at the bottom everyone is invited you know so I I did I signed everyone up and we had a
great time there and we did we tried to go to the next one on the women's breakfast and they were like yeah they
were like this is for women only so I'm pretty sure I let y'all in
by the time it was like you guys can come in it's like you know what you guys want your moment we will give you your
moment just know that we're we're over here supporting YouTube for the record that's the second time I got kicked out
of one the first time my sister was in the competition I went to the it wasn't
like what what you had going up I went to the uh the women's uh event just to represent her and I walked in I'll never
forget I walk in and everybody just stops talking and stares at me I said hi
my sister Crystal she can't be here and then chatter just kind of uh commands
but I I'm really good at putting myself in uncomfortable uh situations like that just to bring awareness well frankly I
think that the guys should be able to go in and say hi and show their support I think it would it would do nothing but
help when we come together again what I said earlier I assume none of us are
really wanting to segregate ourselves away from each other I think there's too much of that in the world as we as we uh
witness if you watch enough news which I try to stay away from but fact is is
that you know coming together and learning from different cultures and different upbringings in different pasts
that's how we grow as as people it's certainly been a big influence in my
life with different people uh that I've gotten to uh you know have the pleasure of mentoring me
the whole reason you find a mentor is because of their their past experiences that they can bring you know some
knowledge and light to you I mean that's that's the whole point so uh I did want
to ask uh you Andrew the uh floor covering the fcif
tell us a bit about that what's what's that about how does that play into what
you do sure I'll be happy to shift and talk about that a little I did want to say
one thing just to figure on what y'all are talking about which is I feel like in this day and age with the labor
shortage I know myself with my team it's like we can't afford to not build up our
team members you know because if we don't they'll find somebody else who will you know and so I just feel like
it's such an important business practice to make sure that you're creating a culture that is where your people want
to be and if your people are you know people that have different skin
colors or different genders or they're people that have small children and they
whatever it is I feel like in this day and age we really have to to keep the
talent connected to our organization we have to be flexible and Make spaces
comfortable for everyone and programs like these mentoring programs or other
programs in the industry if there's not something that you feel like is really
helping you make your staff feel engaged you need to find something as a leader
they can make them feel engaged because if not they'll get going so I feel like
that I think Piggy and jumping on there too is you know training opportunities and
and helping them helping employees and staff and growth and and
um you know trying to have advancement opportunities and and those types of
deals as far as you know working with different
um individuals needs at a company you could do a there's probably podcasts
that are just dedicated to that it's such a deep subject but from a surface
level I would say uh employees are important uh the most
important piece of the business I mean the rest of it's just brick and and mortar and you know uh equipment
it's the people do have to you know they're the ones that make the wheels turn so yeah I think that all that's
important as well so kind of related to your employees and thinking about how you can help people
with whatever is going on in their life um so my day job is that I work with the
Floor Covering industry foundation and it's been around for 41 years and it is
a 501c3 that it was started to help people that have catastrophic medical
conditions who work in the Floor Covering industry um it can also be their household family members as well
and we have three criteria for assistance one uh the first one is the
your serious medical condition um it could also be an injury that takes you out of work for a couple months
could be that you have a child that was born with disabilities and you need medical equipment or special therapies
we help a lot of people that have lasage cancer sometimes families have an
elderly parent that's now living with them and maybe they need a bathroom made handicap accessible or it could just be
that their medical condition has caused them to not have the same income that
they'd had before and now they can't afford their Medical Treatments and so maybe we're helping provide medical care
or even helping pay People's rent or mortgage um so all kinds of different things the
medical assistants um the medical piece is the first criteria the second one is
um that you have to be financially stressed and we don't go by federal
poverty guidelines which is what a lot of non-profits do instead we look at the actual situation
um in the past two months for the family and if their expenses are higher than
their income then we usually can help them as long as they don't have a lot of other liquid assets and then the third
criteria is employment in the Floor Covering industry which has to be five or more years and if they're not
currently employed then they couldn't have left more than five or more years unless it was because they're retired or
their disability or injury put them out of work so does this uh does this apply to uh
1099 installers that may have you know that that's that's how they operate in
the flooring industry may not have health insurance maybe maybe not
um sure okay and this is something that you know I don't think a lot of people really know about right I'm like for my
birthday my birthday was in November and you know Facebook asks you do you want to have people donate to a cause and I'm
like yes and that's my first thought was the fcif so I put it on there and there
was actually I think I got over 300 donated by people I remember that and
it's like that that kind of stuff is awesome and I think a lot of them were actually in the industry so it's like
not only are are we coming on here talking about the industry and saying you know support each other we're
donating and and supporting each other that way too and we just have to get the word out because I think a lot of
installers they they wait too long right and it's
too late and it's like if you know about it right now you have to set your pride
aside and know that hey I need help and this is an organization that could help
me out tell us how um how does it obviously you kind of gave
the criteria how does it work I I'm an installer I I have an injury that's
going to prevent me from doing my job for the next you know two months or something I go to a website
there's our website is the acronym for our organization so it's f c i f for
Floor Covering industryfoundation.org and we have a application which is a longer form and
then we have an inquiry form which is a short one-page document and that's the best way to start a conversation with us
um so that we can learn more about your situation um see if you probably will be a good fit for the program that way we can
um make sure before you go through all the trouble of filling out a long form and sending in all of your supporting
documents that we feel like that it's going to be a good fit um and then we review your you know
income and expenses what medical bills that you have um and verify your conditions and your
employment most of our grants are for six months and then they can be renewed
and so your Grant would specify all of them are different um most commonly it's for medical care
so it would be a check for you to pay for your doctor bills and it could be yours that we anticipate coming or lots
of times people are behind at the point that we get involved so they're to help make payments on existing medical bills
that they have um and then after six months you will you would you could
turn in your paperwork showing that you spent the grant as intended and then you can reapply
um for us so it's um so we're pretty big pretty big program we'll add this to the
description in our when we post this on YouTube for the FC
if.org is that correct yes okay so we'll post that in the description of of uh
this video so there's also I assume a way for uh
individuals who have some means to go on and donate sure yep okay we um
we raised just under a million dollars every year and we have donors that are
individual people just like us to large corporate donors that are manufacturers
that are trade show trade media Distributors
um people all across the industry and so whether it's you know you give fifty dollars or you can get five thousand
every little bit helps and is going to turn around and impact a family that's
part of our flooring family do you have a number of uh you know an average or an approximate amount of
families that you guys help a year yeah I think that I didn't look at it
before I got it on the call and then we had close to 150 families applaud last
year and probably a little bit under 100 that we helped so we certainly people apply with us that you know don't meet
the qualifications for whatever reason our average Grant that's paid over six months is around nine thousand dollars
so that's going directly to a family wow so it's pretty impactful so while we you
know don't help thousands and thousands of people the families that we do assist we're really helping them in a pretty
financially transformative way yeah that's a that's a big help for someone
who you know I mean get you through six months of rent you know save your mortgage that's that's meaningful money
right and that's why I said try and get there you know if you know it's going to get to that point that's where the
inquiry form comes in right because it's like yeah start doing it before you start losing everything instead of after
everything is already gone in the audience I mean we'll again we'll
we'll have the link to the description in our description below um like support one another this is what it
looks like um if you got a few hundred extra dollars go in and donate it's helping a
family I I can tell you one thing that's I I want to say unique uh but honestly
I've been in flooring since I got out of high school so I'm not sure of other industry but you know I know there's
other organizations uh that do some of this not necessarily write your grants
but I remember being that a CFI convention wants and an installer friend
of of mine had just lost his son the day before and uh he was 18 years old and
you know there's obvious medical expenses and things that funeral costs and and stuff and you know
the CFI came up and gave me I believe if I remember like twelve hundred dollars
to give to him uh as that they had gathered at the they'd you know it just
gotten around I mean we do care about one another in our industry is what I'm getting at and this is a way if you do
care that you can support others that you may not have direct contact with but it could make a big impact in someone's
life so I encourage you to check them out in the description below and you can
kind of see some of the you know I'm is there some examples on there on people's
uh I'm actually on the website right now and they do have a link for stories right right on there so it's uh you know
they have different links you know their history give do you qualify and then
stories right there so you can go on there and see some of the stories that people have actually you know they've
gone through the process and how how it's probably helped them yeah that's awesome well
um plugging On Through To we're we're coming close on time here I do want to
make sure to you know give a special thank you to Andrea and Crystal and
Shannon who joined us it's it's um it's great to hear some of this uh
some of the relationships that get built through the industry and how we're pulling together to solve some
complicated problems uh but in closing I wanted to ask you Andrea do you know
Crystal I do so Crystal is one of our volunteers
with Wi-Fi and she is on our committee that's launching our mentoring program
and then Crystal and I and these guys we all just hung out in Shannon in Vegas together so nice is Crystal going to uh
become a mentor uh Crystal asked me if people could be a mentor and a mentee and I said you're an
overachiever aren't you I want to do both at the same time and transfer them down look yeah that's
what it's all about though I think yeah yeah so yeah I'm not sure could I'm not Chris
I'll have to speak for herself what she wants to commit to but our program is six months and then people can continue
that relationship you know however they want after that but the program is structured with
um monthly content um first this for six months and so I would suggest that people you know if they want to be a
mentor and then later be a mentee to maybe do one at a time to start out with
construction there's some structure around it initially now yeah would you
guys happen to have um a a mentor program for uh for a gentleman to be
mentored by a a female to help understand perspective well I will put
that on on the brainstorm list One Mentor program right now but we haven't
said that men are excluded I think even even if it's like a group right right like yeah I think that could be valuable
I will say that when we were at uh I forget maybe it was it was one of the comp conferences at women in flooring
kind of table a lot of guys don't know how to even interact and it's not that anybody's
trying to be sexist or anything like that just like how do you approach different scenarios I had posted the
problem to the table like well how do I run ads without yes you know what
specifically women to come in to my company and become installers how do I run ads without coming off sexist in the
very first place and so they addressed that it's those kinds of things maybe
not a mentor mentee uh uh situation but at the least almost like our message to
the industry uh you know at the end of that six months or something would be cool for for people like me that you
know I still need to learn yeah everybody needs to learn is there any way to
approach it it would be great is there a cost to the program or is everything included in the membership
so to join Wi-Fi as an individual member it's 150 a year and then lots of
companies have made large corporate donations and have chosen part of that donation to be sponsorship of their
employees um but yes anybody can can join on the website to be a member of Wi-Fi and then
the mentoring program is just one of the benefits of being a member oh sweet
good and affordable on top of that for sure all right well that's bringing
us to the end of the podcast I want to thank uh the guests again uh everybody who participated uh thank you to the
people in the background Ashlyn and I know that Daniel and Jose kind of helped you know coordinate to make this happen
so I'm glad it happened I'm glad that we were able to get everybody on and kind of uh you know further the the ball down
the field on since it's called the Huddle I'm always using uh football analogy sorry bro
he's got to be decked out today by the way so moving that that ball down the field
on um you know opening up this this dialogue on how we can you know uh
better accept I I do want to mention one more time what you said that really
stood out to me is assume people are doing their best and trying their best and that they deserve to be in the
position or what they're doing I think that goes across the board whether it
was me when I started installing at 19 or Daniel's story about looking like he
was 10 when he was installing and you know I mean the all those things just assume people
are doing their best and and uh that they deserve to be in that position so
yeah and then I just like you don't realize how much this industry
supports every like we support each other right we got fcif we got the the
Wi-Fi mentoring program now you know women supporting the women and um the like once you started talking
about that it took me back to just this last CFI convention to where um you know they have Raffles and stuff
and you see everyone putting in for these Raffles and I think almost every single prize that was won by some by you
know someone that's been in the industry for a while went to someone that was new to give yeah like like you know you see
these kids in there and they're they're like I really need a stretcher and then someone wins a stretcher and then you
see them like hand it off like right away no questions asked you need this like this is going to help you out so I
I really like that aspect of our industry is that we we do we support each other and you know I'm grateful for
everyone that that listens and you know that supports us and what we're trying to do here you know
um we got Jeremy and hold hand here they're always on and you know just it's
amazing the the support system that we have and I'm really glad that that we
have that yeah well said uh and speaking of support if you want to support this podcast if you're viewing it uh in
whatever uh platform you know consider giving us a like uh subscribing to our
YouTube channel uh follow us uh we get a lot of people that I would have never
thought was was listening to us and attending um that come up to me and said yeah I
see you guys uh I see you on the podcast I love the the show the guys are awesome and and and uh you know so if you if you
like the content that you're receiving and uh you want to support us a little bit you know just consider hitting like
And subscribe and share with everyone and then share yeah do it all
right guys well thank you guys again uh Daniel and Jose for joining Crystal
thank you for joining on location that that had to be uh an extra Challenge and
Andrea thank you so much for for being on and bringing to light a couple of these uh organizations that I think we
should all consider sporting thank you so much Paul it's been great and it's great to see everybody else again so
soon after our trip to Tice but I look forward to working with you all awesome okay well signing out we'll see you guys
later and uh thanks again thanks everyone all right bye-bye
bye Crystal okay bye
The Huddle - Episode 34 - Recap of TISE 2023
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose talk all things TISE and their experiences from their week in Las Vegas. They discuss things they enjoyed seeing this year, and changes that came in that they'd like to see continue.
We also would like to congratulate again our winner for the 2023 Forward Progress Scholarship, Carissa Parr.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody
welcome to the huddle we're back from Tise and we got uh
Daniel and Jose with me as always and I just want to come out of the gate with
talking about how uh excited we were to uh exhibit at
Tice and kind of have an opportunity to meet some people uh you know the Huddle is all about
keeping your business your flooring business moving forward so forward progress
uh you know my intro every week's about the same but this one I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just a an intro that
gets um said and and not understood so you know
in essence we're trying to bring value to uh to our community to as installers
uh flooring professionals and really uh you know
if you find the content that we talk about and share here we don't run any
ads we don't plan on running any ads anytime soon uh you know consider giving
us a like And subscribe on if you're watching this on YouTube uh otherwise if you're watching it on
one of the other platforms you know comments and likes on those platforms uh help this message get out to more
um people are on the lookout I get asked all the time for my advice and I give it
freely here um and I know these guys do too they get they get asked all the time about
certain things from other flooring professionals and we just freely give it
here so consider liking subscribing uh with that said uh again we come at
you every Tuesday uh to maintain help you maintain forward progress in your flooring career no matter where you're
at um whether you're an installer or a flooring company or you know a
manufacturer or a sales rep if you're watching this you're gonna get insight
on all the uh inner workings of we all three started installing that's
where we started so we have that knowledge we've subcontracted from other
flooring companies because we have that knowledge I believe all three of us were
or at least I know two of us were employee installers at one point so we got that that background and then we all
three own flooring companies now so and employee employee installers and
subcontractors so there's a good amount of uh experience and knowledge uh that
that we've garnered over the years and what's even more special is we have a good network of people that we tap into
and ask them questions and get feedback from them so if you have any questions uh you know participate in the in the
podcast by asking uh maybe um uh asking or commenting on the video so
that being said this week we're just you know we just got back from Tice uh it
was really exciting time it was our first time as go Carrera exhibiting at
the show so that was pretty special um really cool and
the the show was back to what I remember 2019 being really busy people being
engaged wanting to you know gain knowledge on how they can improve their
situation whether it's a like I said a manufacturer distributor we talked to the full swath of people that are are
involved in the flooring career or the flooring industry uh whether they're like I said I talked to a bunch of sales
reps that would come by uh talk to some tech reps talk to
manufacturers um it was just it was just a fun time even hanging out you know afterwards and
and just chatting it up and I know you guys you know we we we hung out a lot but what was
your guys's favorite part of dice it's always the people for me so it's uh
part of the pinpoint a favorite part because every day there's one thing that stands out right so
I like I return for the people I'll be honest I could care less for for Vegas uh because
I I mean it's super busy right but I go back for the people and
every year I go back it's something different this year there there was a lot of personal connections made all
right you go there for business but man was there a lot of personal connections made this time and and that
leads to Better Business so I I'm looking forward to see what what everything turns into yeah more busy
this year I thought since uh we weren't we didn't have anyone you know baby sister wasn't in the competition I
wasn't we were going to have more time to to like do stuff and it's like kind of neglected the competition Kevin's
saying uh that it was good talking with all of us last week and you know it was awesome um we went live for a
little bit and and showed kind of what was going on over there and I think uh in the future we'll probably do a little bit more of that kind of thing even just
walking around and maybe talking to people but um it was we were on the fence this year because
we didn't know how much we were able to show and how much they didn't want us to but after talking to them uh after this
year's it's pretty much you guys get to do whatever you want like well I think they want they they want you guys to
show I would assume they want people to show The Experience because I I you know
it's hard to explain if you're not there I know that we were gonna try during the podcast and we we cut the feed a little
early but you know if you just it was fun doing the podcast from there too that was that was pretty awesome gym and
and Ken I sent all the audio earlier I'm hoping it's good enough I kind of
listened to a little bit and I could here pretty good but uh Ashland will be the judge of that
well we'll do the best we can to clean it up and and uh but yeah that was fun
and and but what I'm getting at is it's hard to to Really experience it so
unless you get to see how massive it is and how many people are there and all
the um the different parts of the industry that are represented from importers to
to the installer like from the time the products made in Italy all or wherever
all the way to the installers and it seemed like there was a a lot more installers there too I I don't know if
that was just me uh but it seemed like uh we had the installation community so
that was awesome well then you're getting a lot more of the guys on the
technical side and stuff actually you know going over to that side so it's good to see that but also you have
like the union that um was a part of it they had four apprentices there doing
some sheet vinyl and you know one of the kids are like this this kid is only 19 years old and you've done a good job
yeah he was probably one of the best ones in there and it's like that's awesome where was that at
oh man was that was that in their Booth or was that yeah it was it was in their Booth they had like their trailer set up
and then they had four pods set up and everyone in there kind of kind of working and doing the same thing on the
sheep I know and it was like this is awesome there needs to be more of this because it's not just the unions that
are doing stuff like this right so I mean that's a conversation with you some
of the other uh organizations to maybe hey not only do
you have a competition but maybe we can bring in some newcomers and just have them you know compete against themselves
it's not even for anything it's just and it doesn't even have to be that it could be you know we could do some some
sheep sheep vinyl demonstrations and stuff like that I mean I don't we don't do hard tiles so that's always something
that kind of fascinates me so I actually went to a couple of the uh
they they had some educational classes about it and it's like oh this is about mosaics I wanna I wanna learn a little
bit about mosaics and there's you know it's it was awesome the information that
they were they were given out and it's it's something that you know it's free
yeah it's free when you're walking around I mean it's free right you're already there you paid an entry right
but there's things you've already paid to be there you might you're getting your benefits let's get let's get your
you know your money's worth let's go and and learn as much as you can and it's like some of that stuff that they were
talking about I was like man I never really thought of that because we ought to do it we ought to do like uh uh uh uh
a uh sheet vinyl floor with wall tile and just have a
um have some go career guys come in and someone on the network come in and and do the sheet vinyl and then someone on
the network do the tile live just right in our booth because I think we're going to do a 10 by 20 next year that's a good
idea you can go live and say hey guess what we're going to find somebody right now
yeah that'd be cool one of the the really cool things I thought was um see if I did put on you know a
workshop for the the sales people to go to that they can actually learn and see
what the installers are going through yeah they didn't get the traction right away I think they only ended up with four people but they didn't the idea was
materialized a little bit too late so there wasn't really a lot of time to advertise for it but but yeah they're
definitely onto something on that that was uh that was actually because there wasn't a uh there was only
four people we didn't actually have to participate which I I'm thankful that we didn't have to try to squeeze something
else in but I do feel bad that we weren't able to help everyone that we wanted to while we were there
well we're going to get more opportunity especially since CFI and and fcica's
combining their convention this year uh we mentioned it the podcast last uh last
week on on location um I cannot tell you how excited I am for that I know that
seems corny but I'm I'm serious you're getting both sides of the industry
coming together and when I say both sides I'm talking about a lot of com
more dominated company uh association with fcica and a more dominated
installer association with CFI coming together at one convention to me that
seems like a winning so you know winning equation uh so I am I'm excited for that
I hope I hope our audience some people come out and uh you know show up and
and uh you know grab some free free uh merch from go Carrera and and get to
know everybody because man that's going to be fun I know you know installers are all about the free merch I'm over here
rubbing uh the Great Alaskan flooring company you know Steve and all
them were over there this year it was nice hanging out with them what where did you uh where did they
where did they uh where did did they have a booth or they just handing out oh it was it's a you know
a group of installers well technically they're all encompassing company kind of
like us right we're like we'll still go out and install but it's their salesmen and installers if they if they need to
be yeah um it was nice talking to them and just getting with uh
the smaller companies like that because we're all going through the same thing so it's we're all feeding ideas off each
other too so it's not only are you there to Network and and stuff like that but
it's where you're like man like this is what I'm going through and someone always has an idea for everything
yeah I'll tell you one thing I kind of noticed is there's this there's a huge
uptick in the in the you know appreciation for the installer at the
event I noticed uh whether it's any there were some uh I seen some news some
press releases on you know some retailers uh you know
doing a apprenticeship style program through this right here locally I believe this uh DeGrasse interior so Deb
DeGraff was yeah yeah and I think uh Crystal was there at that uh that conference as well that release of that
news so uh one of the local companies is going to start with um I want to it's an
education program I think it's a five-week training course is that what it is they're starting with so yeah five or ten week I mean it's it's obviously
built on the criteria of of the FC yes but the and so you can still qualify for
scholarships it looks like at least from the release I've read so I mean it's just cool that people are starting to
understand I think that your your labor resources uh and as you guys say trade
Partners or employee installers the the fact is is that you have to build from
the ground up you know the stuff of building the trickle-down kind of Ideal
um you know the problem with that is you know if I'm trained as
the president of my company now I just have more work to do to try to train down right yes what if the the
Baseline the foundation of your company if you look at that as the ins your
installer resources as your foundation and it seems like that switch is starting to happen and
companies are realizing like if you win at Labor uh and you win it honoring and
and helping the install professional uh be more successful uh whether that's an
employee installer or a subcontractor or a trade partner I like that term you
know um the fact is is if you build that Foundation right you can really grow
your company because all of us know I mean it's inherently known that you're you're only going to be able to install
what you can install through your re your labor resources so you build that up most of us can sell the crud out of
flooring it's just can you get it installed in a professional manner after you've sold it yeah so after that you
know they came out with that and uh people ask us what do you think about it and we love it like
they they think that we look at it as like that's our competitor I can't believe they're doing this but uh at the
same token you know we're like what can we do to help like this is great for the industry it's not you against me it's
we're all in this together and until people start looking at it like that um nothing is going to end up healing in
our in our industry so it's like you know we're we're fortunate enough to to have the
knowledge to be like you know and part of CFI naft and stuff like that so it's like let us come help
you we can help in these classes uh we can learn in these classes yeah I mean
who knows who's going to come down and train so hey so quick shout out so Dad Dean uh Dave uh
whoever okay Jim Jim if you guys Jen you guys need some help with that I mean
we're local we're right here in the backyard um I mean given our schedule we'll do our best to make room to come and help
out or or to come and in class and learn something that's really what we we
wanted man we need that's awesome we need to leave as well so more than
willing to do that so that's the shout out so whoever right and that's where you know that that trade Partners comes
in because we're in the same trade even though we do the same thing right we we don't do as much residential as them
and they have a commercial and residential division but it's not like I'm not trying to go and take all your
work right we're that's what we're not about we're we're not fine that whole precept is is a false
narrative anyway like it's a it's a there's more work than we can get done
yeah the fact is is that there's not there's there's no no harm there's not a
lot of um downside to sharing knowledge and making our industry better overall so
helping each other out is I think a key um I also want to say that having the a
lot of the Union guys came by our booth and that was that was awesome it was so
cool to talk to those guys it was and I did not have a division it was like what
can we do to improve um I did get a question here from Paul
Turner asking was the union doing a competition or demonstration you guys
were by there I think they were just showcasing their apprentices like this is where you can be at if you're only in
here you know for a certain amount of time and they had they were in multiple levels of uh the apprenticeship program
so there might have been a gift card involved for for the one for the winner for the one who did the best I don't
want to say the winner but that might have been I gotta tell you a 19 year old dude doing cheat vinyl and impressing
you guys that's freaking awesome well he shows you what can happen just period like from a training perspective if you
get trained Young when your hands haven't gotten any bad habits or your mind got any bad habits man can you get
good fast well granted he was like a second or third generation yeah so they said that his dad uh he was like on
Christmas Eve his dad made him go in the garage and do a bunch of work and it's like you know if you're gonna get good I
mean it's good to have a coach like that right because it's no different than any any sports and it just makes sense we
always relate to sport is called the huddle man it just makes so much sense and actually when uh
I was I was talking about it to someone and they were they just looked at me and they were like I don't understand like
why is it called the Huddle yeah I overheard the conversation and it's like this is this is how you have to think of
it right you think of it in terms of sports and this is this is Paul's like he was like this is
the Huddle it's all about forward progress and then you put it in terms of of football and it's that's what you're doing man it's all right we're here
we're going for that next first down sometimes you get sacked man you get pushed back but you're always reaching
for that next verse down what what can we do to get to that yellow line that that's
all we're doing it's one yellow line at a time until you get to the end and
you gotta turn around do it all over again yeah you know the the I've watched
uh um Urban Meyer uh in at a conference
talk and and uh Peyton Manning and
um Lou Holtz even the the thing is is that there's so much
that it's why I love football is just there's so many life lessons within
there like yeah the quarterback's your your quarterback but I don't care how good he is of his offensive line sucks
right so and it's they're usually the ones that get I almost think of installers as an offensive linemen uh
because they they don't get all the Press but man they're the most important part because I it doesn't matter how
good the quarterback is it literally doesn't matter if the offensive line is terrible and so there's just so many
parallels to real life and business that you know it makes sense and and frankly
that's what we do each week we come together we talk about Solutions and what's our next play and we go try to
you know execute on it so yeah keeping that forward progress going to me
um made a lot of sense in my heart on how how we uh how we try to operate as a
company and how we try to operate as a business hey shop at the same store
so yeah um so one of the things that I found really interesting and maybe my favorite
part was the competition like every year I love
to install our competition but I went over there a couple times and the freaking catwalk was packed there was
two or three times I went over there and I couldn't get up there and so I was like well I'll come back later it was 3D
watching the wood guys or then the next thing you know it's three deep watching the uh watching the guys and I was I was
blown away with the interest was that a challenge like over
140 feet 30 feet of seams in the carpet I think yeah that carpet
oh my goodness it was more than a roll yeah of tape holy smokes yeah yeah it
was pretty uh crazy to watch and I I I think this year
um strategy your approach to that to that
uh to your pod was key like staging yeah yeah like how you approach it I've seen
some guys like you know seam everything up and then and then glue the whole the whole thing I watched some guys do it
you know um where they they did it in sequence where they they did some gluing they
glued up to their tape then they you know utilized uh their they seemed it
after the glue was done with the you know uh the cool Glide so the the the
approach seemed like super particular and anybody who hasn't been to it it had like you know
well as a probably three inch border uh and double border uh yeah double border
and three inch and then and that three inch piece they're pulling lines on them to see how straight it is right and
measuring everything and I watched some of the judging which is a piece that I hadn't really I mean I've seen in the
other competitions but I've really paid attention to how they were judging them this time and I tell you what it's it's
pretty freaking cool when you go look at it we have a assisted living client that does they'll pull a dry line down to see
if their patterns are matching all the way down a 200 foot hallway so it it is real life a lot of ways
you know a little little uh secret about me is the very first time I got a striping kit on my lawnmower I pulled a
Mason line across my yarn because I want I didn't know what I was doing I wanted to be money but after a
little bit of practice I didn't need it so that's funny just so you know how I am because I probably would be that that
guy and that wasn't or that person who pulls that line down the hall they probably put the same thing don't let him lie all right and someone that's
been in the the competition it when you look up and you see all those people
emotions get real things like your mind goes blank sometimes and it's just like
uh that's where you get you know you see them and they're just down there and he called me out on he's like you're just
there twiddling your thumbs on your leg it's like yeah because I look up and it's like what are you doing it's like like let me just try and bring this
thought back like don't pay attention don't look up but you got so many people watching yeah
uh the pressure's on oh shut up Siri so yeah that was cool that's that's what I
like kind of stood out the most to me was the the the depth of people wanting to see this
stuff happen it was it was uh so I did enjoy that let's get in trouble man it's getting trash and I like seeing the
difference I know that Colwood kind of put a damper on it and then uh nothing for 2021 but even just compared to to
last year after we had a little more freedom yeah still last year wasn't quite like
2019 but this this was very reminiscent in the 2019's kind of traffic and even
maybe more so it sounded like a lot of people that were there um
you know uh have the same feeling and a thought just
came to my head I if you didn't go one other thing that you'll realize is that like we I spent a little time with the
floor Cloud uh crew there um man you you miss out on some of these
like I've seen their presentations before at another conference which is where you
get to know this stuff yeah hey we were both there yeah exactly and and the
coolest thing it's they're coming up with some cool like hugely beneficial tech for for
commercial and J in particular where you can see and I just want to give them a
shout out because I think their products awesome but you can you can uh know the
the humidity and the ambient temperature and job site conditions of your job and
and I may have mentioned this before but it's like super cool that you can they now Bluetooth their their sensors to the
uh relative humidity sensors in the slab and you can read that four or five hours
away it doesn't matter where you're at you can get that information um so track all the changes right before
they came out with this he's talking to Jason Spangler and he's like this is what you should do and Jason's just like
yeah yeah that is what you should do like you know I
sometimes I'm a little bit behind the eight ball man but you know my intentions are pure yeah
so anyway that's one of the reasons we're we're always like touting get to to the shows and Convention because
that's where you see that kind of stuff there was also right next to me was the booth of now I don't know how far this
tile is gonna go but they take recycled plastic and they mix it in with different things and they they've made
ceramic tile poor like a obviously it's not real ceramic or porcelain but it's
got all the visuals uh it's called sustainable and that was kind of cool just to see that yeah you see these
these new ideas of people trying to approach the market uh with a solution
whether or not it's a material solution a technology solution
um or a people solution with you know the fcef uh or ntca they were doing a
bunch of you know uh that's probably where you you I would
assume went to the the mosaic yeah it was in one of the on one of the stages
it wasn't in uh I mean everything was kind of separated but the main stage being like
I walked 28 miles last week
oh and you'll get your exercise guys go to Tice and you get your exercise one
thing I do regret is I I did I I caught a back end of it but I I missed Sam's uh
presentation for for my pain like that's one dude you got to see if you're gonna go there you got to go watch out
animated that dude is and and even if you want to see Sam he's give he's doing the Naf CT class uh
coming up here in in Georgia for their subfloor and substrate yeah that that
dude man I I went and visited him because I missed his stuff too and I was like when's your next presentation he
was like uh in like 15 minutes but come check this out and then we started talking about the LBT shower and he was
like I remember you guys when it first got introduced and you know you guys are the only ones that really have one like
in your showroom right now he said but there's so much so much interest in it right now it's
crazy yeah it's a presenter man I love just
he's a communique he's such a good communicator from the stage
um it's really he's a talent for sure his passion right like it's real like
people can pick up when when you're just monotone you're reading off something but people also can pick up that
positive energy and that's just that's just all he puts out and if he's Faking It hey that's a good job dude yeah
something I still have his badge from one of the nafct events yeah yeah he he
can freaking present no doubt and but like you said it's all about you know if it wasn't authentic it
wouldn't come off that way that's why it does come off so well is he's so authentic and he's got a he really knows
what he's talking about he's not a presenter he he comes from an installer I mean the guy knows what he's talking
about when he's up there showing you how to do it it is gonna be the right way he's gonna uh give you all the backup of
what what ASTM standards and all this stuff and it's like an encyclopedia up there for him it's pretty cool
it's nice to be surrounded by a lot of uh people who are very involved and
you can find whatever answer you're struggling with if you don't have an answer and you're struggling
somebody will point the finger and lead you to the right person yeah another cool thing was I noticed uh John Namba
taking around a group of installers to different boots yeah they were doing tours yeah that was pretty cool
yeah so you know and Susie was a judge this year first female
judge that's awesome too yeah well if anybody knows what to be looking for she
does you know I I think that uh it's better than him anyway and he's the better
installer yeah he'll straight up tell you so everybody kept saying man so you know
must be true well she's uh she definitely has been
um influential and I think a lot of the women and sellers you know obviously uh
know that you know that that whole thing that's another piece that you guys went to was
the women in uh the leadership conference right women in Wi-Fi
the first one the women the women's uh conference on Monday but before it
actually opened up I had one I had so we actually did go to that and that was um
um it's just eye-opening right like it just made made me
I already realized it but it's solidified uh the different approach uh
men versus women and you know the they tied together the age Gap and the
difference in Generations a lot better than men do um coming from a different aspect and I
think we can we can learn a lot from them uh but it's just nice to be able to sit and be
a part of it be a fly on the wall and listen even though we always kind of try to sit in the front and
we're just ready to to engage in conversation at any time so well I just told them they were like you know
someone asks you know right after it was like uh I don't remember what exactly what they
said but you know why did you come to this and I I came here to learn from people smarter
than me and there's a lot of people a lot of women in here that are are smarter than I am so I'm just here to
learn yeah did you guys uh so that that was on what Friday night
was it Monday Monday morning man yes yes
my Friday since I was out of the office for that
time frame yeah so it was that was that evening how many people were there
oh like probably had been like 50 or 60 people in there and Michelle Winters aren't put a a chicken emoji because
Crystal brought a rubber chicken and like awkward silence she'd squeeze the the rubber chicken
it's a thing now we're we're the preferred flooring Rubber Chickens
that's our mascot you guys gotta own it we have to yeah
well um I know that you know this kind of a recapitize and we shot live from Tice
the cool thing is you know I I do think that uh there were
some good momentum there um it was fun to be there but you know having that installer kind of presence
was noticeable to me and uh
we say it every week come to uh do you guys remember the
fcica and cfi's uh dates I can look it up real quick yeah
get there I know that it's down in um that's in Orlando right yeah oh um
yes August so what they're doing they're doing a joint venture for the uh CFI convention
they're going to combine forces and I believe it's at the rosin Shingle Creek I know yeah I've never been at the past
few years yeah so whether you're CFI or not let's uh
you know show up to that show because you're going to learn I think a lot there uh
Tice was awesome but this will be I think you'll get to communicate and get
even closer with with uh you know more of the installer Network that you know
we all get in our bubbles in our cities but this is a chance to get out and and uh get to know some other guys and and
gals in other areas and uh share your knowledge and they'll share with you
um so Tice was fun that's pretty much what this podcast was about was uh you
know touting the the enjoyment of going to these conferences so
I can't I can't make you go but I I sure hope that seeing the podcast there and
seeing the people that are there and kind of getting to know uh that as well as kind of this quick recap of of of our
experience while we were there um you know maybe entices you a bit just to you know go check it out uh invest we
just say just come hang out with us
come hang out with us we'll hang out with you the whole time I mean it's kind
of what we've been doing right we've just been trying to make people more comfortable because it does get a little intimidating so there's a lot of people
there we like to be that that familiar face we were um
I was honored to be
to party for first-timers and there were some people there who weren't first-timers but they were first-timers
to that group that that came and joined um another Local Company uh Welsh child
marble Dan Welch uh the owner uh came and showed up and then I directed some people his way
um and it's crazy it was uh some of the people that he brought with them like we live 20 minutes away but I mean
I met him in Las Vegas so yeah yeah I seen Pruitt there and he's like I
gotta go to Las Vegas to see you right and he's right here in Wichita so it
looks like the convention except 20 September 20 20th through the 20th
thank you Paul for bringing that up so yeah yeah let's get to that
convention um again you know you can come hang out with all the
all the installers you can come see Daniel and Jose chat with them everyone
one of the things I I will tell you is once you've formed a relationship guys will help you we we we help each other
offline I've said this before but we actually talk offline sometimes uh and
and bounce ideas off of each other on how to help each other's actual flooring business outside of this this uh podcast
and outside of go career our flooring companies we talk about you know how can we help each other get better so uh I am
always happy to help a new flooring company or even a tenured foreign
company if they if they if I have anything to offer I'm willing to give it so right
to someone about that too when we were down there and they were like uh
you know pretty much what are you trying to get out of this and that that was one of the big things was connecting with
other installers and I said I like to be that that resource when people are thinking of uh I have a question with
sheet vinyl or something it's like let me call preferred flooring and they were like and and you answer I'm like yeah
man that's why we put it out there he was like you come up with the time I said most the time it's you know a 10
minute conversation it it doesn't take much but if you know someone that that
can give you that information a lot faster than you can you know try and reach out to someone especially I've gotten calls nine ten
o'clock at night and it's like I'm in a pinch I just need a couple answers real quick a couple pointers and it's like
this is what you should do yeah call me and let me tomorrow and let me know how it turned out and just so everybody
knows like we don't have all the answers we're still learning as we go you know
you know we are still but you guys are great connectors too it's like you guys have a real knack for connecting people
when when they're you know if you don't have the answer connecting them to someone who might so you know there's a
lot of value in that as well you don't always have the answer but it's cool if you know because we get out
and get to these things uh we know some ants some someone who may know the answer even if we don't
yeah Michelle Winter says that we're all amazing and thanks us for everything that we do but also Michelle she's
amazing and we gotta thank her for yeah that she does yes amen and I didn't even recognize her this time I'm not gonna
lie and I think I did tell him I'm pretty sure I told her like she said Jose and I'm like
oh my God that's Michelle Strong work strong work young lady awesome and then uh the nafd event we
were talking about with Sam Biondo and then actually Andy McWilliams and uh
Kevin from novalis are going to be doing a resilient modular training too that's
February 21st through the 23rd in Georgia so I went through that subfloor and sub
prep or substrate training hands down like
one of the best and when is that I've went to it's uh this month the 21st
through the 23rd at the new facility down in uh Georgia I believe
awesome uh and thank you oh it no it says it's at the Mapei adhesive manufacturing facility so thank you Andy
for this uh fidget spinner ink pen yeah now nothing I don't even use pen but I'm
gonna stay here and just spin it all day all day long gotta put it down I was walking around Vegas doing that people
were just like what is that noise I was at a meeting yesterday now I got to get one and the guy he was playing with his
pen the whole time and it wasn't until after I said you gotta check this out and he was like I need one
I've drawn to it that's awesome that's another thing to add to like when you're traveling and
you go to an event like this and and you surround yourself with people who are trying to
increase their knowledge and trying to make other connections you do get revitalized a bit I'm not gonna lie if
you can't tell everyone we're kind of excited to be back home and kind of tell everyone what we felt and what we learned there but
you have to find more reasons to go than more reasons not to to be honest with you like it's just you have to find a
way it's just it's hard yes we know that not everyone has that capability and
fortunately for us we've kind of made it a point to do that we try to
plan ahead a little bit but we can make it a priority yeah we make it a priority
and and this year we didn't not gonna lie we were like on the fence are we going we're not going like uh
I got this going on and then we said we gotta go see Paul there's no it's Andrew
I was happy we were able to have breakfast together on the last day man yeah that was awesome and then you know
shout out to Mohawk 2 because they did do the installer appreciation event over there at the most competition
um having Alana there has actually her talking to us and Mohawks been getting
uh really big into the install side so shout out to Alana and mohawk for for
hosting that um I'm impressed with the line I don't drink beer but thanks for
for the beer for everyone else yeah you know we did we did a little [Music]
uh presentations at the same time so you know just got to make your way
around a little further shout out I I am impressed with that um with Alana's leadership at her age
it's it's no kidding I think it's pretty impressive so
um yeah get out and meet some folks uh again I know I know that we didn't talk
a lot about the actual any any flooring install techniques or anything we'll we'll come out and have some podcasts
that uh are more in-depth on you know actual flooring techniques and
stuff but what we're trying to say is getting to convention is where you learn a lot of that stuff and and uh whether
it's Tice or the CFI FCI Cas uh combined
um convention coming up I I I'm a big believer uh that the installers that get
there um you know they they tend to just have
I'll say they tend to just have a a better beat on their business you know they yeah there was a a couple
Brothers there right and I started talking to them they're on the tile side and they they started their company about 18 months ago and um I don't
remember their names because you like hi nice to meet you forgot your name already that's me
but they they were awesome man she gave everybody name tags I'm talking to him and you know we're
just going over the business aspect of things and how you know we we started and and where we're at now and after
about an hour I said you know what I've been talking a lot and one of the brothers said he he said you know we're
not technically on the same side of the industry because you know we got these silos that we're all in but he was like
this is exactly what I came here for so like even when if they're not installing
the same things man business is business and especially when you're talking to someone else that's you know a pair of
brothers that that come in and even uh Jose and Luis too and they they said
that they they take a lot from this podcast actually they were like we they listened to the podcast and when we were
talking about like branding and putting it on your shirts and stuff he said we really took that and and you know they
showed up with hats and shirts and it's like that's awesome that's what we need you know people are
listening look I'll stand right here I I was uh I was humbled with how many
people came up and said they watched the podcast very humbling
um you know we don't always have the most attendees on the podcast and people consume in their own way but whether
it's YouTube or LinkedIn or Facebook or whatever they're they're I've I had so
many people come up and say they they love the podcast and uh we had multiple
people that we're gonna have on this year um that that want to be on and and
um you know talk about their experience in in our industry and it was it was real humbling it was cool because you
know we just get on here uh chat about the industry and chat about our experiences and it's
it's a reminder people are listening and and uh so showing up I it really
invigorated me to show up at on the podcast like be present and really try
to bring value as much as possible because there are people that that uh listen and go actually do it and they'll
change your business because of it and a little embarrassing thing for me too is uh so after the women's event on Monday
we went up to for a get-together afterwards and um a young lady came out to me was like oh hey your name's Jose I
prefer flooring but yeah she's like oh I listened to the podcast all the time and I'm like
I don't know what you're talking about she's like aren't you on the Huddle and I'm like oh
yes yes I am I am so excited I said so here here's the here's the thing is I
feel like it's just me my brother and our boy Paul get together and just talking so it doesn't really forget that
it's all out there all the time yeah so yeah that was uh so so thanks everyone for watching that's hilarious okay I'm
so sorry about that um I got her card and yeah I need to reach out to her because that brain fart moment because
it's just like this is just real talk and we're just hanging out and and it's just something we love to do so right
and even at the end like uh there there was someone that you you see there all the time right not I think I
have this card here somewhere we'll just wait yeah now you gotta wait
on me but it's you see him there and it
yeah Mike so I've seen them there you know a few
these past few years and we always say hi and everything and before he left he's like Daniel I got to give you my
card because I love everything that you guys are doing and if you're ever in the
neighborhood we want you to come visit and and I'm like yeah you know we'll make sure we bring everyone we bring the
whole family you can only come if you bring the whole family like I want to meet everyone
so there was a caveat to it yeah the whole family well it's I I think that um
you know with all that said it's it's like when we when we come on uh when you come
on and do you start like you said Jose you just kind of start rapping with each other fact is is people find Value in
authentic authenticity and that's what we do we're just talking about our
experiences and so again it was humbling and I I want to tell everybody thank you so much for participating and you know
if you do like what we the value we bring you know the best way to show us
that is like And subscribe hit that thumbs up button on whatever platform
that you're watching it on and you know help us grow the channel and get it get it out to more people yeah build that
Network even you know from here on out and come to these events and sign up for
go career because it's free for installers I mean there's no point not to that's right yeah just to build on
that like you just said Daniel I mean there is absolutely zero cost to the
installer to sign up build their profile get their Hammer rating and you know build their online presence so to speak
it's like a calling card there's nothing there's no cost the only cost is upon settled payment so I always say like the
worst thing that could do could happen is you see a work order that you really want to do you do the work and you get
paid like there's only that that's the worst that could happen if you don't you
still have that as a third party verification when you're trying to sell yourself to someone above somebody else
like there's there's a lot of clout to that and so uh and they're gonna want
these shirts they're going to want these shirts that we were talking about yes I mean even so I didn't realize right I
think you got a bag I'm gonna I'm gonna plug this shirt right here because I'm gonna have to like not only is this
shirt awesome right yes I didn't realize that it has this mesh right here
for a sweat like it's a mesh I didn't even realize that either it's see-through I'm reverse yeah that's
the most comfortable shirt I I almost uh I almost wish that all of our shirts
were that material that right is absolutely awesome this is the material we make our work shirts out of as well
but it doesn't I tell you what let me let me make an offer next week uh if
you're consuming this somewhere else if you come on the Huddle next week and just say and just uh
put in the in the Q a huddle shirt I will send you a I'll send you one of
them shirts and and we are getting ready for a giveaway at some point too yeah few
extra large guys because like just like large ran a little
bit there's this uh this stretchable material I mean it was still comfortable but visually I didn't want to scare
anybody away so I had to jump scare everyone away that is true well with that guys we're gonna wrap it
up and I want to again thank you guys for uh you know all the value you bring to
the to the flooring industry it's it's been awesome last year we wouldn't even be sitting
here talking about it right now thank you for creating I appreciate that thank you for creating that platform uh for
for all of us to do our best and and lift everyone up and help elevate it it's always a team effort that's it's a
team effort and that's why we call Partners right trade Partners we're all in it together let's all become Partners
there you go all right guys so next week Tuesday three o'clock same place same
time and we will catch you guys later all right see ya all right bye everyone
The Huddle - Episode 32 - What can Manufacturers and Distributors do in 2023?
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose have special guest Jake Stefan from Shaw Contract and discuss different ways manufacturers and distributors can positively impact the installation community in the coming year.
We also would like to congratulate again our winner for the 2023 Forward Progress Scholarship, Carissa Parr.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
week on Tuesdays at three o'clock to discuss maintaining Forward progress in
your flooring career this week uh is a extension of last week
and part of a series now so we figured at the beginning of the year we'll
discuss what can we do this year that will make some meaningful change in the industry
and so this week we're talking manufacturers and distributors and we have a guest today Jake with uh
Shaw right yep I got that right yep which show contract thanks for having me Paul
well welcome we're glad that you uh were able to join us today and as usual we
have the two Mainstays of Daniel and Jose for her going out of Michigan uh thank you guys
for once again being on and contributing and and uh just being real
leaders in the industry so awesome bro thanks for having us again you know it awesome
well this week I pulled a Jose anybody who joins our our podcast every week knows it Jose is usually in the truck
going somewhere uh it's my turn so
um that being said we're gonna kind of discuss some ideas that
manufacturers um you know that we fill from uh you know just a quick background most you
know that I own a floor covering company out of Wichita and I'm also founder of
go Carrera um there's a lot of
things over the 20 plus years that I've been in the industry that has changed
with manufacturers uh as it applies to training and really how it applies to the
installation Community uh Jose and Daniel have been installers for how many
years gentlemen 20 something yeah 20 20 something and
they know they're uh they don't have a flooring company called preferred fluorine for the last several years
and um I'm sure they have some insight here too so the first piece that I'll bring
up or that that was on my list is what manufacturers not use
certifications anymore and uh I know there's some liability and
stuff that came about but true certifications and
um of the past seem to be pretty much
um you know pass down to your training entities like CFI and such so
um I guess whoever wants to chime in on that question
so I'll chime in with what I was told before Jake does I know that he's uh the manufacturer with the with Shaw but
um and this is all speculation this is what I've heard through conversations with uh
Tech reps uh is because of the liability that that they
were um acquiring right like when they certify as a manufacturer or do the
training for certification they were um assuming responsibility for that
particular installer or that company and if there were any failures then it was coming back on their training program or
this is what we learned or you certified them and I think that that's where where some of the uh
the issues were coming about and and so they changed the literature a little bit change the the way they were approaching
it um and I get it you don't want to adopt somebody else's negligence right and by
certifying somebody um as a manufacturer you are essentially doing okay you're pretty much assuming the liability right because it's like
yeah they came through they're certified they're approved to go on your job and then if they start doing something wrong
then the customer can be like you sent these guys to me like you said that they had to be certified and they are now up
mm-hmm it's similar to like I mean uh
the automotive industry my my cousins high up with Ford and
they call it Ford factory training and ASD certified will get a
certification a third party um Ford standpoint is Factory trained
yeah right the same thing with when you look at protect all the manufacturer the when we went through that I mean this
had been 10 years ago now when we went through that and it was not a certification it was a factory training
yeah they're just giving you they're educating you on their product and limitations
and then uh what do you got to add to the object yeah oh what was that Paul
yeah I just going I was just gonna say quickly some manufacturers still trained
I mean uh or verify or at least the last time I checked like Nora do
they still get a certification Nora still gives certifications but when I went through there if you're
they require you to actually make a visit back every three years unless one
of the tech reps comes to visit you and sees your work on a project so that actually happened to us so I am Nora
certified and the tech rep when we were on a project actually came out and like watched this
work ask me questions got down and and you know actually seen how we were
putting it in when when the adhesive was spread and stuff like that yeah that's something that I was gonna as far as
certification I know I don't know if Shaw has done it in the past but I know there our trainings
offered or we can have our Tech Team out in the field if there are specific projects that you are working on that
need that kind of oversight or Technical Training
um it's for certification it does come out of a liability uh because you have a paper your training bills are off it
doesn't mean that you're going to do how you did in the actual training certification out in the field so I
think that's what it comes down to but if there's ever an instance where you need oversight or a help in a training
that's something that we could offer by getting somebody down at the Mill whether it's a complicated installer
installed that it's just an added feature that we can assist with
so with that that's on a project by project basis do you guys uh log that
anywhere I think the missing piece is that we we've stripped installers now I
understand the liability piece but we've kind of stripped installers from having ways outside of go career and of course
I'd love every installer to be on go career at the end of the day we've
somewhat stripped installers of the ability to prove their their skills and
their training and their dedication to the craft outside of go Carrera
um they can't show a certificate unless it's you don't mean
um they don't have a way to prove their their um
expertise yeah you know what I mean himself from other installers
or else right and correct me if I'm wrong unless it's just word for mouth that hey these guys do a great job
they're they're trustworthy they'll put it down they'll do it correctly file a protocol are there other certifications
out there outside the Nora that you talked about Jose uh yeah there's there's plenty of
education programs out there for for every Silo in the flooring industry
um you know CFI runs a a general run any fct runs uh resilient and then they're
also doing subfloor subform prep um uh CTI
great training what
what you know who Shaw contract is they know who you know Mohawk and Millikan they
know those names so they don't know that and they they don't know the different
levels so you can say your CFI train you know certified
won't be doing a C2 type project you know what I mean you're you're
absolutely right about that there is no um there's no template that says that you
know hey this is this is my card this tells you where I'm at as far as my expertise and my level there's nothing
like that you throw a name out there and you can say whatever you want after you throw
um a training point there's no manuf that I think what I was
getting at was there's no there there's no clout to it that's what go career is trying to do or is doing is you know
giving a metric to be able to be utilized by ingesting all of the training and then providing the hammer
rating but at the end of the day the void of manufacturer training I
guess I I'm a little curious on standardized training calling it Factory
trained or factory whatever and still logging that that installer completed
that training when you go out to projects and you help them through a project that's that's helping them
through a project but it's not you know our goal is how do you uh
significantly improve the installer's life their their standard of living and
they don't get that you know just because a manufacturer came out to a
project and yeah the project went well but they don't get to carry that forward to other to the rest of their working
career um you know you don't get to say that yeah I was trained by Shaw or I was
trained by Mohawk or whoever right and show a contract such a great company a
large company that um is there any standardized training
Jake to your knowledge where installers could go to a shop facility or a shop
supported facility and get off the job off the project I should say training
not to my knowledge but I'm sure it's something that we could do I don't know if it would be so much as a
certification um there definitely is an opportunity and local rdc's when I was down in
Chicago in the Chicago Market we had one outside of the city where we had
specific installers come in for sheet vinyl training but it's just training
itself it's not so much a certification so I could definitely follow up with the technical team in the mill to see if
that's something where that'd be of interest in local markets to get a group
of installers out there for say it's heat welding or say it's any type of installation and then have a shawback
program for training I just personally haven't done anything to my knowledge on it yeah and it
doesn't necessarily be a certification I wouldn't think just a factory Train That's How Ford got through it uh you
know even the training can be recognized and and just a little background as well
like uh the hammer agency he's talking about for gold Carrera what it is is it it gives the installer a rating it for
their their skill set and okay I don't know like how many trainings are actually recognized and if it adds to a
hammer rating Paul um and I'm I'm sure that you've you're factoring a lot of training and education programs in there too for the
hammering about everything even even after this workshops uh like in the Tile
World they have uh you know the npca afternoon Workshops the different
distributors even those are recognized it doesn't give you a bunch of hammer obviously your staff is pretty much so
recognize that there's still 100 other installers that didn't go to it and you
still did and you still participated and you still probably learned something and
so as long as that training is uh cat is uh cataloged I mean the empathy that did
the training saves the fact that say Daniel did a
one-day Workshop right that we we recognized all the two-day workouts for
Schluter a two-day workshop you know um
and like I said just afternoon workshops in PCA even and each one has a different
weight inside of our algorithm so it gives different uh amounts of hammer
based on the years of experience that you have in a ton of other factors so it's hard to say that this training
equals that amount of weight because it depends on your previous training as well as your
um you know years of experience and work history but if the training that you're talking of
Jake is possible to get um set up where
and industry-wide right there's we have a huge need in the industry to get
trained so I'm not even saying one manufacturer can solve it all but if the manufacturers had a factory training
that they logged when the installer goes and you can fill out a questionnaire that
says you know what type of training it was uh how many hours the Hands-On how many hours of
uh book study tests all that stuff and you just fill out the questionnaire as
long as like for go careers purposes as long as your career can go and verify and prove
that that scholar took training they get to get that that value added to their him already
and they carry that training forward it's a way to incentivize installers to
to especially independent installers that are not under our company sales not
employee installers to go get trained spend the money and the time off to get
trained because it means you know more more work orders and more pay down the
road for them and um the training yourself Jake might not hold weight alone because it's just
quite as in training with a certification in that same field
and now all of a sudden now that that holds more weight so you're taking this glob of of certification let's just call
it like let's say C1 or C2 or something like that from cf5 just use that right but now I'm adding on to that now I have
this now I have the formal Technical Training and the science behind everything now I also have you know
Shaw's training for for their carpet and their bankings and what they have and that's exactly add more weight to that
uh initial certification um that that installer has devoted their time to yeah I mean think about just
just as adding tools to a tool belt right it batters their their personal skills
their training skills their installation skills and then it also helps us out
when our materials do go down of we want it to go on correctly and get that train
training so that we don't have issues in the back end it helps everybody out in
the in the overall sense you know and a lot of like what Patrick when I know you
had said something before we started record but you know um like our relationship with Patrick didn't start as a a sales relationship it started as
an installer talking to the sales rep trying to figure out the problems and making some decisions from an installer
standpoint exactly hey how'd you guys fix that how'd you guys know about that um and
are you talking to Daniel like he's like oh you guys really do good work you know
what you're talking about know what you're doing yeah and uh it helps us out from the manufacturer's perspective even
though I'm a manufacturer's rep but if they can add anything to my tool belt of hey I can talk through a higher maybe
not as high a level as an installer but if I can get some basic knowledge of the actual install as it's going down it
helps out all all sides of the part of the group you know right and then it
also helps uh with material that you're getting respect right like
well I think I'm gonna jump I want to say thank you for bringing that up Jose
the fact is that say you're C2 you said and they get a shot you know Factory training it's like a booster to your
other certification that you already got it's like it adds fuel to the Hammer
rating fire so to speak and so it's more value if you're already certified then you go to a shop Factory uh training if
the weight is heavier uh because of the foundation your ability
that I don't want to get real nerdy on the algorithm that creates the skill score because it's very complex but
essentially what you said is correct and now one other point to or one other
benefit is that you know as an installer going through and uh they may be C2
certified but one of the problems that I've found in the commercial uh Floor
Covering industry is the backings changing and the you know recycled
backings and then getting rid of PVC and then adding PGC back in and then some bland and you know how many backing
changes has the industry had in the last 10 years you're not getting that on a certification you're getting that from
the mill when you guys change your backing I had a 2 000 yard job fail because one of our installers and I will
not name the um the mill but they had a new vacuum
system that required certain price and it'll tell you the processor but surfaces
and those processes were not followed to the seat while the installer had no idea
uh heck even our PM was uh somewhat are you talking about because you had to
prime before you spread the adhesive I saying anything Daniel I'm not saying
stuff you see what he's trying to do there yet but
is and the mill helps us out good behind and you know but the fact is that
failure never had to happen with proper training the failure never had to happen and with over three billion dollars in
failures annually in the flooring industry if you include moisture failures
could we not at the industry as an advocate for installers find a way that
you have that how much how much better is our industry by having the
the failure most likely it's a silver million dollar
deduction from failures right so so I hope that manufacturers this year
really focus on the installer and and form some training don't call it certification let's just call it Factory
or uh Factory informed I don't care how loose this is it as long as the training
is really valuable and you can and people and
people can check to make sure
that's a that's a step in the right direction so we just had the the Taylor
you're breaking up a little bit Paul so we just we just had the Taylor rep in
here um right before we got on here right and he actually just told us that
it received by a certified you would actually get a lifetime warranty when you use their pieces in your projects as
opposed to their 10 or 15 year whatever comes standard right no that's that's installation
but how how can we get with the manufacturers and actually
have them put in their documentation if we have If We Hold certain certifications then
um even our labor warranty is extended on
top of the manufacturer's warranty on some stuff where it's instead of a 10-year warrant you get a 15 year teen
year you get a 20 years backed by not only the manufacturer but the
organization organization you're certified from so that way they can actually see the value that they're
getting as opposed to just hiring someone off the street and hoping that they get a warranty at some point
yeah I I
think that the extended warranty on labor in particular
you know we're we're working on one thing that I think you know we'll be
chatting on this offline but basically once you reach a certain Hammer ready uh
we're working with insurance companies to provide uh the same labor warranty
that like installed us which will give the uh
like a five-year or ten year labor warranty if you're if you're three
hammers are above as a failed piece to the installer for
when they're they're out there you know selling their services but from a manufacturer to stand behind
it what did you think about that Jake yeah again it's if you can add more to
it I don't know how it would work with but you're giving me homework and get the technical team and warranties I I
don't know how that would work along with the set warranties that we have in place but if they do go hand in hand I
don't see an issue but again don't don't shoot the messenger but I can bring it up up the totem pole and exactly see how
that would work though of how can you get that extended warranty if you have a separate certification
I just I don't know personally how that would work without going up the ladder
yeah it's all a process right it has to start some it starts with everything starts with an idea that's that's exactly all we're doing right now is
we're spending on how can the manufacturers and Distributors help oh you know one of our Distributors just
brought the Taylor rep in here to talk about their their products and just doing stuff like that is really
beneficial because they have some products that um we didn't know about right so it's all about you know just just making your
rounds and as a as a salesperson I know how busy you are because I know how much I email you per day
but it's all good I can only imagine what your inbox looks like game but but
also you gotta think it's not only and it just comes out to the whole overarchy thought on this is it's nothing but
beneficial for you for us for installers for everybody so if we can team up and
start this idea and Spark it and ignite it and then something turns out from it
that's that's kind of nothing's gonna get done unless you have conversations like this around it you know whether
it's I'm boots on the ground up here in Michigan but I bring it to a VP who covers the Midwest that BP then covers
it to a divisional and then it goes from there starts like wildfire but like I said you guys got me
homework now I'll I'll follow up get with the technical team and get with other
people up in upper management on it to see exactly what can be done with that
and then like last week we had Uh Kevin in here from Roberts and he's on
Facebook right now and said did I ask the Taylor up his warranty we'll supersede the flooring warranty if it
doesn't it won't matter much and you know that that's another thing too it's
you can see these these manufacturers actually going to
to places and and spreading the knowledge that they have right and that's that's a wonderful thing I
love it and if you look at it so we've we've talked um with the nafct about how
and that's the National Association of Floor Covering technicians if you if you
didn't know um we've talked about before how these
manufacturers are dropping their certifications and how you know that that liability but it's about getting
these other training entities and actually saying all right your guys's training holds its
weight in gold um how can we partner with you because just speaking about resilient she Goods
right sheet vinyl um you can use the knowledge from learning one product
and kind of translate that over to all the other products
so to have just every manufacturer doing their own thing
doesn't necessarily make sense anymore but getting these manufacturers to
actually back these uh different organizations is something else and that's something that I don't have to
deal with but it's something that I want to talk about right because if we can have all these manufacturers back in
backing us up that that just makes us more powerful well and I I wanna that's one of the
reasons that Taylor does that is because they're so closely aligned with CFI
so they you know if others could the
line and I don't know all the Dynamics in the background of the training entities with managers but
we're all you know it's like the industry's working on um you know bringing in more people and
bringing in more people and I support that but something you said in a
conversation earlier today Daniel is that it's been brought up by multiple
people and probably agreed upon is that we have plenty of installers we're
lacking quality we're lacking uh first off a way to verify or know that they
their quality outworking them and then finding out they're not on a job
so that's kind of where we're trying to build plenty of guys that are working uh
but we're really lacking those quality uh installers right
you said that earlier did you yep yeah it's a we have a surplus of installers
it's just not not many of us are are qualified to the standard that we need to be in the
industry and that if you look at it from a whole
um just on the commercial side there's so much science that goes behind the adhesive the products that you have to
know and then you pair that with actually having to know the science behind what you're installing on so if you're installing on wood what kind of
wood is it if you're installing on concrete are there any additives in it
are there any is there anything topical on it what do you have to do if there if there's something on there
so it's there's so much that goes behind it
and there's so many people that are in it and and the stores that are selling these
jobs that that's what the the sales men are there for they're there to sell and then
they worry about the installation afterwards because like I said I'll go on these these um dealer groups and
stuff and that's what they say it's it's sell sell worry about whatever later as long as you get that stuff nothing's
mattering no no you know don't let me take away from that but I want to ask you a question here Jake
how much of product knowledge are you as a sales rep um in the area what is the requirement
of product knowledge on your behalf um um as a sales rep versus a tech rep I
know Tech is more technical but I'm just curious like what is required of you
um to maintain and and how do you promote uh the knowledge of the product make sure that
the installer isn't set up for failure or or the company that you are helping
select a product isn't set up for failure yeah so what's unique so I came
out which I'm out of college I went I lived Georgia first three and a half
months so I went through the shot training program where it was all product knowledge again it does come
down like you said just we know so much about the products and where they go but once we get it out there we get the
specification we need to back it with we need to make sure it's the correct installation so we have all this product
knowledge and product training having the tech team as support I think
we I guess all manufacturers could put a little more emphasis on Technical
Training and installation training because right now as we re we rely on our installers for that knowledge to
pair up with the product knowledge right so as myself being a product specialist
for Shaw contract I would rely on my installers then for
that installation specialist so it's got to be the give and take of we can't expect all of our installers to know our
product in and out just as I I don't know the installation in and
out and that's where I need to rely on installation or my installers for that but like you said if there's the
training that I was offered was mostly product minimal installation what we could do is get that flip-flop
of we try to install or we tried to help out with the acknowledge for ourselves
if I could get help on the installation knowledge it just matters everybody's
chances for Less failures better installs better product better projects
being installed and just happier customers overall so a greater
percentage of success equals a greater percentage of Word of Mouth business which turns into exactly
it creates it creates Word of Mouth for everybody everybody's happy in the long run and you don't have to look at
project two to three times after it's installed whether it starts to fail anything fails so overall it just it
makes sense to just team up and we're all doing it for the same reason so yeah ultimately
from a brand standpoint when a manufacturer has something fell whether
it's the installer's faults or not the end user typically has some type of
strike in their mind about that manufacturer and that's what we we try to mitigate that right because we've
been in the hospitals where they're like we hate this product this product sucks and then we go and rip it out and it's
like the product doesn't suck it's just it wasn't installed correctly so that what
the lifespan was shortened a lot like if it was installed correctly they wouldn't
be having the issues and they wouldn't hate that product and that's something that we we tell the customers it's like
one we don't want to throw the installer under the bus because they did the best that they could they did the best with
the knowledge that they had was it enough no but the the manufacturer shouldn't pay for what that installer
did at the same time it's it's a great product and if we installed it you'll see that and I mean I'm not
at some point they've already made up their mind and they're going to switch out the product right but it's like we
just want to let you know that down the line if this product gets spiked again it's not a bad product and some of it
too is like if they didn't maintain it properly if they were
using them to maintain it because in their head uh it's been
institutionalized and that's what they've been doing for 20 years but the product specifications does not to do it
a certain way they could have killed the life of the product too so I guess I guess that's a education part goes beyond just starting
at the substrate and working your way up right as the system so the end user um should also be educated as far as
maintenance yeah just going off of that I mean I have one where the school district went
from VCT were they stripping wax twice to three times a year they want to use
LBT and they think it's a magical floor that you don't have to do anything to because LBT then they didn't change
their casters everything gets scraped up it's basically having cement put any salt salt melt anything going on
it just got scratched up we're like well it's LBT we don't have to do anything to it so that was coming off of no matter
what product was down it was going to get scratched up no matter what because it's starting from the installation from
the subfloor all the way up and then teaming up with Furniture just to maintain your like our one our product
to the installation because if it starts getting chewed up by Furniture it makes not only a manufacturer look bad the
installers look bad the end user is going to point a finger at somebody and because we're down first it's going to
be one of us foreign they even have stuff out there now it's
where you can um refinish LBT we went through a presentation yeah uh with the fcica and
who was that um I forget what I mean it was my pay wasn't it oh it was my pay yeah yeah they they got a topical it's a temporary
fix right but it's a selling place I never strip out
one there's uh there's some other Coatings and stuff you can put on top
like a solution but
you know I think everybody's moving to lvt um really messed up uh this just side note
the way lvt was sold for the first uh 10 years uh didn't do it any favors uh people
thought I couldn't scratch that uh you know it was impervious to
any problem didn't need any maintenance ever uh it
you know obviously we know different today but um 10 years ago
when there was not as many manufacturers of lvt maybe 15 would be a better time
frame but you know it was kind of sold as the clad back then you know many
people who specified all the Architects or designers or or uh end users who may
buy you know have been around them expect still have this expectation uh you know from a sales standpoint when
we're selling lvt we always talk about that it will scratch we promise you it will scratch if you
don't want to take care of it in a proper manner and maintain your dirt uh it will scratch
so but from an install standpoint uh back to that a little bit
you know as manufacturers if they could do an installer bulletin
with my only my this is my second uh thought installer bulletin that could be
distributed and and actually got in the installer's hand on when different
backing systems come out because you may be certified to be an awesome carpet layer
um but when a new backing comes out and I'm just talking carpet right now
but this applies to almost all of them especially lvt uh that the tailors for
that backing when the chemistry of that backing can just so to stop the processes that need to be
um considered how you install it so
attention part of the tree are you reading that right now
I I was played uh reading the question yeah yeah Levi said that not a question just
input right installation crew and and or the retailer should be explaining the cleaning processes and proper
maintenance to avoid uh potential warranty issues right and
commercially that's a little bit easier because we have to provide all that documentation anyways
[Music] or specification that we give them close
out care and maintenance and all that but you know as well as I do you go back and look at it in five years and someone
who did most of the maintenance Crews that take care of those commercial buildings
do not read or care they have their own system and they do something and
I've seen it completely ruined flooring before but but that's a good point that Levi brings
up is of course from a long-term standpoint
keeping the end user informed is important and and telling them how to maintain and clean their their flooring
or take care of their flooring it'll eliminate a lot of problems that that we go back to try to fix and
I mean I mean yeah so install our bulletins I I know that that manufacturers have like
lists of installers and if if something new comes up it's just
an installer bulletin doesn't need any sense to the company because some
companies have employment dollars but something for the installer to
uh engage with when they're updated install methods for different systems or
backings or something like that do that for us he said that every time something changes he's going to send us like a
little postcard and let us know where it is and how to find the link right that's what we're going to do now Jay because
you're our guy right so I said I told you I have homework so no but um when
you brought up the Nora certification Nora actually does that so they changed
the the adhesive and they change um their their stair installation to where
it's not in order to install nor stairs you have
to use the tape method now there's there's no more ASAP that's going on so
they they did send out you know documentation when that stuff changed um that's from the tech side the tech
rep actually emailed me and said hey this is what's changing
email me back let me know you got this question
that's the certification side you're saying yeah okay that's because I'm in
the certified database gotcha so now does that go out to everybody of hey
here's a here's a tweak of what we're what we're doing with our products this is how we're gonna do it from now on
yep okay um and then Patrick Mullins on LinkedIn
said that this is kind of what they're building not kind of that's what they are building floor Cloud for direct
manufacturer updates to installers so I guess that's something to look into as well
they've been on social media I've seen them a few places lately says when you go to select the product you are going
to install and send you a notification of the new change that's cool
yeah more cats Cloud systems pretty awesome and used but I watched their
uh their um
at fdica and then I I've talked to the
guys over there a couple of times offline so yeah it's pretty that's cool so so Jake we have a question for you
flooring manufacturer recommended adhesive
depends there's a lot of different instances of what the subfloor is
what I guess I think what he he's trying to get at is uh
in in your documentation it usually says Shaw
uh adhesive is required right it's yes we required he's for warranties I
understand that that always doesn't happen and people installers use what they're comfortable with and what
they're used to but again just being able to get the questions up front or those moisture tests done in the
Forefront of how can we prohibit something bad from happening
again if people are used to defense laws are used to using pressure sensitive or
uh just a regular wet set adhesive then that's what they're used to we can only
do so much to recommend our own and like you said just from the fourth like from a maintenance side too it's we
can say okay you have to buy these casters and we're trying to protect our floors we need to think of it as more
information and then be more information the better to then decipher an answer but if the if you were looking for
there's an overall One-Stop shop all adhesive I don't have that answer for
you that's a great answer so like um based on conversations that we've had
with we're just going to go across the board it's the installers that they actually
recommend a system that they're going to warranty and that they're going back that they're comfortable with because
that is the system that they are using for all of their testing if you were to venture outside of utilizing the system
that is recommend recommended by the manufacturer then what you're going to have to do is you're gonna have to make sure that there are safety mechanisms in
place and you are not skipping steps because if one thing fails the system is
not a whole they're gonna have to break it into segments and then they will find the failure where it was
um because science doesn't lie so I don't think any sales rep is going to tell you to yeah go ahead and use that
um like there's a question on there like what if it's not available well if it's not a if the manufacturer adhesive is
not available then you're going to have to use the next best right and the next
best most manufacturers are pretty good at giving that all alternative product I've
had that happen with some other you know if it's a hard set acrylic adhesive or
something well what's another manufacturer that makes one that you guys would accept
and specifically I bet I think a lot of us came really aware of this during the
covid problems we had plenty of of Manufacturers that were like no warranty
without our adhesives they couldn't Supply them and then all of a sudden they're like well you can use these three yeah so and then I'm just going to
try to get like an example here because there's a question about that is um Jake if we were in a scenario where
you guys were I would have uh adhesive for your uh terrain too just say we're
doing some 20 mil terrain two and we couldn't get any adhesive for it um what would be your recommendation for
the next next adhesive in in your toolbox that you are allowed by by Shaw contract to
tell us to use if that is the case yeah so so say that we use our typical resilient adhesive and we can't get it
for whatever reason may be then go into different buckets of still
that are under Shaw that are that are approved but then if we can't get that
then we would then go up the ladder for this project specific to get that that I guess stipulation of can we use
this for this project because of X Y and Z so it was it's just a matter of getting with your manufacturer's rep of
we can't get this we go to option b we can't get this we go to option C now
what can we do so it's just that open communication of how can we find a solution that fits this customer so that
so that question um should be run up the ladder call call the rep talk to them about it because it
can change every conversation exactly project to project Circumstance the circumstance right
because uh sometimes you know we're on the fly right because that's what it's a we have this we ran short on adhesive
the supply store is closing in the half hour which is what they have can I use
yes or no yeah and I don't have the capability being boots on the ground on
out running around to make those decisions so I gotta run it up the ladder too in order to get that approval
to then well actually that it's uh we can actually call the the number that's
on the bucket right the tech the tech number exactly customer service or talk to your
manufacturer's rep if you can't get a hold of them talk to customer service eventually you'll get in front of a
manufacturer's rep who then will have to reload it back or at least for in my case I gotta run it up the ladder to my
manager to then go to tech and and so on so and we've been in the situation
before where we've used some adhesive that said that it worked for certain
things and then it didn't because plasticizer migration is uh
a thing right yeah and the man it was actually wasn't a manufacturer it was
the adhesive so the he's adhesive manufacturer came back with oh you're
not supposed to use it on it and it's I pulled up the specs and it says 100 I
can use it on this so can you believe that they made up new labels and redistributed under new labels who would
do that I we won't say but they don't make the product anymore anyways this is
fun no it's California's fault yeah
actually you know what so that's another thing too is our distributor actually had her back on that instance right there and
actually stop carrying that specific product because of because the manufactured it back their failure
they clearly said in the labels that we had but their new labels were missing it and that's what they were trying to throw at us and we're like no dude like
that look at this look what we got right here look at this instead of here here is day inviting I need to actually your
old table and now because this issue you changed it so some installers pay attention Jason yeah hey that's that's
what we need the internet can be your friend and your enemy at the same time
um double-edged sword hey gentlemen
um already believe it or not
so um I want to thank you Jake for coming on I know some of the stuff we weren't
always you know it's not always looking for the exact answer from you just the insights and and thought processes on
you know I think it's important for manufacturers and the installation Community to have some some uh
some ways to share information and I also go into my very first point
just some level of factory training uh I do like the installer bulletin I
know or cloud has had uh jumped in and said you know that they're they're working on some stuff I know that you
know go career long term I'm not sure when this feature uh is out we will have
installed bulletin eventually where manufacturers just go on and load up uh new information on their
uh installation of a certain product and that'll go out to the entire go career
installer Network um and it'll show as red or not red or
uh you know opened or not opened and kind of get that feedback on
knowing that the installers are getting it rating it and understanding it um
and all those would also be great to have like a tech rep behind it that that
could answer any remaining questions so just some ideas
I love it no thank you guys for inviting me on it opened up my eyes as well so again if there's any questions it's good
for us as manufacturers to be reminded of this well as well because we are so in product where we gotta look at it on
the back end as well of how can we get something down that's going to stay down and perform well to make everybody look
good yeah and then there's our ultimate goal as installers too is we've come across some pretty good
product but we've come across a lot worse installs than bad products yeah right Kelly even puts on here she's when
we were talking about you know the manufacturers and backing up installers she said that uh the manufacturers
backup design organizations all the time why not start doing it for installers
since we're kind of that that backbone right it's uh foreign
to learn about the product that we're putting down and and stuff like that that's uh that's really what we need to
do oh I just real quick if I can just add I I
challenge just everybody to put their manufacture this opened up my eyes a lot
so if you're if you have a specific manufacturer that you love working with or just open up their eyes to so that
they can start that conversation where again it's not it's not it's not going to do anything but benefit us all in the
long run I love it I love it thanks for that comment that's that's important yeah push your sales reps and your Tech
reps to get you the information and and also push you if you've caught any nuggets off this uh off the Huddle
podcast here use them to to kind of uh like Jake said push your sales rep to
maybe make some meaningful change they they can push it up the mountain uh as
Jake was talking about earlier and and get it up to higher levels and I think we all want a better installation a
better installation community and you know at the end of the day deliver great
projects for our end users so yeah all right gentlemen well hey thanks Jake
for joining us again and appreciate it yeah thank you guys appreciate it yeah
it was awesome and Daniel Jose thanks again for being a good Good Samaritan to
the the flooring installation Community because that a lot of people listen and
uh I think that understanding that some of the challenges that we go through out
in the field and the stuff that the the instances you bring up are fresh and can
help us all be better so I appreciate you guys I appreciate everybody thanks for the audience everybody joining in if
you like the content you have heard today consider liking and subscribing to our
YouTube channel we upload these every every uh every week we upload them to uh
our YouTube channel so go searches out like And subscribe join the podcast get
involved in the community outside that I want to say thank you to everybody once more and
we'll uh see you guys next week all right thanks guys
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 31 - 2023 - What Can Installers Do?
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose have special guest Kevin Keefe (Regional Sales Manager at QEP) to talk about what role the installer plays in the necessary changes needed for the industry in 2023. We also would like to congratulate our winner for the 2023 Forward Progress Scholarship, Carissa Parr.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody and welcome to the
Huddle coming to you every Tuesday three o'clock Central and what we discuss is maintaining
forward progress in your flooring career nice as usual uh most of the concepts we talk
about are applicable and flooring in any business really but we specifically dive
in on flooring as that is our favorite industry so uh this week we get the pleasure of
drawing on our Ford progress scholarship uh which we did in Kentucky
and um so the way we're gonna do this let's see if uh
we can have Ashland uh turn on her video
behind her there you'll see nay all the uh
uh applicants as well as a number next to them next to that that number as you
see there's a small little device in the lower left hand corner there which we
are going to uh draw and that number will coincide with that name and that
will be our winner so we're going to do that here a little bit later and today what we are
discussing is uh the first part to another series which is just what you
want to see in the industry this year what what real concrete change can we bring and
what would we see at the end of this year that would tell us we succeeded in
that objective so this week we're starting with the the installers what I call the foundation of our industry
so gentlemen uh well first off let me
introduce uh Jose and Daniel uh as usual you guys are with us this week uh and uh
Jose you are looking fabulous for having kovitzer so day one day one I'm glad you
still you still made it here um so I thought I'd kick it off with
you know what what can we measure at the end of this year from an installer of
the excuse me installation standpoint uh that would tell us yes we accomplished
that um one idea that has and and something
that's really kind of uh really integral to the way I believe is
training and if we get a um maybe we can get a metric of
how many were were trained last year through the various entities and how
many we get trained this year uh we thought uh that would be a good
metric easy to to measure um I also believe that
the overall average uh hammer rating in go Carrera does where where do we want
that and and it's easy to measure because it's all digital but you know what would the average be and
where would we want that to be um but I think it's all based on training what do you guys uh what would
you guys really love from an installation standpoint what would you really love to see happen this year
I would like to see more people get involved in the training uh just in
general I would like to see the older generations and the kind of uh in the
middle uh installer age group to start pushing the education you know so that
way the that way the education portion doesn't take so long right like some some guys
don't don't get to actually learn to put their hands on for a few years some guys get to do it right
away because they don't have a choice but what if we as an industry were able to uh Advocate together and push push
the envelope as far as getting the awareness that education could
further your career a lot faster in the industry um if you were just to
I know it's like to say but maybe sacrifice a little funds for some trading sacrifice a little time person training to to kind of view the big
picture um that's what I'd like to say I like like to see people view it more for
investment versus a pain in the butt to to get away from from work for a week or
or for a few days that's what I was going to say because we talked about that before about investing in yourself and that's really all it is is
you know you're you said sacrifice but it's really more of an investment right because you're using that money for a
good cause you're you're actually going out and learning I mean like I said man all it takes is that one
thing all you need to learn is one thing to make a make a class worth it
yeah uh why don't you introduce our guests there Daniel we got Kevin from uh Roberts Julie
Pierre Roberts it's both so QEP is the umbrella we have a handful of companies
under that name one of them being Roberts awesome well tell us a bit about about
yourself what you're doing now and kind of how you got in the industry well I'm a sales manager for Robertson
QEP so adhesives tools under the limits um I've been in the industry for over 25
years now 23 years on my knees and four and a half on this side of the business with the manufacturing side
um big and uh training training programs uh educating guys doing a lot of shows around the
country representing our company and the products that we have how to use them
um and also continuing my education uh in the installation world and uh trying
to get more guys involved um you're asking what I'd like to see in the industry what for is to try to come
together to solve the biggest problem we have in our industry and that's lack of installers uh when we were going to be
in a serious problem here coming up if we don't get more people involved and I'd like to see everybody basically that
has an opportunity to take a pledge to to bring one person on this year you know that they uh turn them onto the
flooring industry because we need it this industry needs more people and it's going to take everybody to solve that
problem and I think that would be something I would like to see that's a good one and I want to just say
like getting involved man just in general because if we weren't involved
we wouldn't have Kevin he just showed up out of the blue yesterday like he walked through the door and I'm like what's up
and you know you it's it's those relationships that you can build like that like we didn't know he was coming
by he just looked us up since he was in the area and it's like come on in yeah we met and we met at a you know a
training deal through CFI years ago now and been building that relationship uh
Jose and I have gotten paired up golfing in that uh in that function the last few
years and uh you know I listened to this podcast because of the relationship and
meeting these two and uh I love what you guys are doing and I figured I'm in the
area I better stop stop by especially after our one of your last podcast where you're talking about relationships with
uh whatever and I was on that trying to chime in a little bit on that so you
know I don't want to talk about it I want to be about it and get involved I like that
yeah and that might be our saying for the for the the show here is uh yeah
don't talk about it so bringing one bringing one pledging to bring one person in is an interesting
um interesting way to look at it like you know
what what what does it look like to grab somebody by the hand and take them into
our industry you know what does that look like um it's certainly finding
um people is always tough right that's what we hear a lot but at the same time
if you take that personal um approach with somebody and show them that you actually care about them you
might be able to actually pull that off and and uh you know with the with the installer base that we have uh if each
person brought in one one one individual take him to a show take him to a
conference take him to the CFI uh take him to fcic something it doesn't even
have to be anything big like that like our our local Distributors have open houses take them to an open house give
them that time you know even if it's for an extended lunch on that day to take
them to do something free hot dogs I know from the vendor perspective we do a lot of stuff through
uh our Distributors that sell our products and we'll set up for all day let the guys come in take a look at the
tools talk about the adhesives that we sell uh the benefits of using one product over another but it's it's good
to to bring the guys in it's a small little bit of Education that we can do on a regular basis instead of having to
travel to here or there it's just a local distributor there's always food there's always good conversation and
there's people that good camaraderies people that are involved in the same stuff yeah and coming together and
talking about their you know the issues they may be having the successes they may be having and uh you know how to
overcome some problems and stuff like that that's a good point you know going to these things and Jeremy keeps on
asking if he won but we didn't draw yet so stay tuned Jeremy we're gonna we're
gonna be drawing here uh shortly but you know these local events and actually
getting to know some of the the other local installers because there's a you know quite a few around here that we
don't even know and you know once we do meet some of the the people that we haven't met before they always know our
name even though we don't necessarily know theirs and it shouldn't be like that we should uh actually be going out
in the approaching them and you know just stop in and anyone is welcome to stop in
and that's how we've gotten to know a few of the installers though just you know like Kevin did just pop their head
through it I was like come on in man let's start talking well that's crazy creative recruiting
yeah years ago we uh Daniel started a a page for West Michigan flooring
installers right and we wanted to get everyone together on the same page like just have like a little powwow with
everyone and it just it's just everyone's so busy and so stuck in the moment that it's hard to
coordinate that with that many people but I know that if we were able to do that that would be really a really sweet thing to have just like an installer
type uh meeting with some of the local guys in our area maybe you guys already do it in
your area but just to be able to have everyone meeting and help solve one
another's problems or issues or save uh potential issues from happening right
and I think that that would happen and that's what people don't get is we're not in it to compete with anybody
there's no competition out there we're in it to win it together as a team and I want everyone to succeed I I want
everyone to have success if you look at it from that perspective we're not like you said we're not
competing we're actually there to try and help anyone that that needs it and if that's what this entire thing is
about that's why we started this podcast if we've already been through something that you're going through right now reach out you know we
are we perfect no no one is but if we have overcome something that you're going through right now we want to
we want to be that that medium for you so that way you don't have to struggle through something
well and I think it's important when you start talking about kind of congregating
and and trying to assemble people is not like someone doesn't have to lose
for others to win so I love the approach like like you said Jose and like you
just iterated Daniel that we can all win there's more than enough for everybody it doesn't have to be our our industry
is sincerely plagued with the the um what is that uh
like I forget the term but it's basically fear of me you know fear of sharing like
if someone else's success equals your failure and that's not really the key with FL with installers one of the
biggest problems we have uh as go at go Carrera is companies not wanting to uh
onboard their installers because they don't want other companies to have access to their installers as if they
own them and as if uh that someone else succeeding equals their them not
succeeding and we can all succeed we can all benefit from uh installation and
labor efficiencies which we've talked about before on the podcast and just to reiterate that point it's it's a quick
math and I've talked to multiple people over this but it's more of a thought experiment and it's like if one crew
loses eight hours a week that's two on a two-person Crew That's 16 hours a week
lost and it's reasonable to assume that that happens on a week by week across the industry basis that a crew will miss
out on eight hours worth of work from the job side not job site not being ready the conditions not quite being
there or materials not showing up on time or the GC just isn't ready or the homeowner's just not ready that day and
it gets pushed a couple of days it's reasonable to assume that we lose eight hours for a crew that's 16 hours a week
that's lost per crew now if you just said look let's take that over 10 000
Crews well that's a hundred and sixty thousand hours a week lost which equals 4 000 lost work weeks every week
so we also we have a labor shortage no doubt we also have a labor efficiency
issue where when I when I was sitting if if they can go get get work from
another company to fill their their void in that schedule for two days that's good for everybody you don't lose the
labor hours the sub stays busy and and keeps money flowing and some other company got a job done
that they desperately needed to get done it's really win-win-win there's no downfall to it it's just this scarcity
that's what I was trying to think of it's a scarcity mindset like oh I got to keep my all my stuff here well let's
open our knowledge share our knowledge let's share our
um our Collective experiences and try to help people not make the same mistake so
this year I would love to see you know another good measure is how many flooring failures uh happen that's
measurable some of the stuff that we we may or may not have and I don't know does Roberts keep tabs on uh dollar
figures of flooring failures from installation or manufacturer defect
installation uh issues uh we we don't have any failures
you know of course we do we keep track of everything um you know and not just you know
failures but specific to what products that allows us to make Corrections if need be or to figure out what why that
problem's happening um so yeah we we keep uh a pretty significant log a very detailed log of
any any kind of complaints that come in anything that gets to inspection Point anything that goes any farther uh
fortunately we've been pretty lucky this year not just this year but we have we have very few failures across the
country um so we're pretty lucky on that and things happen that's going to have happen I mean it is what it is a lot of
the failures that I see are usually environmental right I'm going to ask you I was going to ask you that question
from your standpoint and be in a past installer uh I I would assume that you
kind of uh take it we all know there are some manufacturers that really are aggressive against the installer
I'm not going to name it but during the claim process it always tends to be the
installer's fault for some some reason or other uh but you being in your
position and your background what would you say is the number one issue when it comes to fluorine failures
that just from your experience it doesn't for my from my experience I think it's a little bit of a blend
between installer failure and environmental failure and a lot of the
installer failures that I see are directly related to environmental failures that if they were a little bit
more knowledgeable maybe had a little bit more training uh they would have taken the steps to avoid the
environmental failure so as a from a manufacturing standpoint if unfortunately if the installer gets
blamed because of something that he didn't do in that he was supposed to do even though it's an environmental issue
you know it is what it is that's why you know trying to get and gain as much
knowledge in in what you do is so important to be able to avoid the problems that are already there that you
might not know about without the knowledge behind it and how to test for it and how to deal with it
um you know one of the one of the things a lot of guys do will go in with a moisture meter and test you know throw a
cheap moisture meter on the floor and say it's okay well you know the bottom line is that's not the standards right
the standards is you got to do an ASTM 2170 or 1869 those are the only two that
are recognized in the industry correct so yeah and for those who don't know
1869 is the calcium chloride and 2170 is the ensued to the the
relative humidity test of the concrete which one is the one where you duct tape a piece of plastic through the floor
I don't know anyway but I mean it's just a fact of knowledge right the more knowledge you have the less likely you
are to have a failure and I mean and that's with anything in life but especially with fluorine and you know
the fact is there's so much going on on every job is so different there's so many things you have to be aware of you
know the more knowledge that you have to be able to avoid the problems on your job site is crucial so you know I push
everybody for education I mean myself I'm still going through education I've got one in February that I'm going to
um constantly things are changing in this industry you've got to constantly be on top of it
um standards are changing products are changing so without this knowledge you run into some of these old school guys
or well I don't do that I don't need to do that they're still rematching their trials the same trial that they've had
yeah and the problem is the problem here and sometimes and you forget it you know so even going
to get refreshed in your head about stuff that that you may have been doing here that you're not doing on a regular
basis that kind of got you know that that fell out this side of the head just hearing it again talk this is why it's
so important to get together with other people in your field to discuss this stuff because there's stuff that can be reiterated into your head that you might
not have been doing that you might know and you just forgot to do or you hear one Horror Story you know from one guy
and you're like man I better start doing my moisture test and not just one here I got to do one for let's say every unit
in in a complex right that's another thing guys don't know well I did a moisture test
on the second okay what about the what about the sixth seventh eighth floor right well you know it was fine down
here I mean it's so there's really a lot that goes on and a lot you can pick up from just talking with other guys and
yeah points out that they what we have we
preach every week is getting trained and and and the key here is it's not just
hand skills right you're talking about intellectual property really is understanding why things uh need to be
done the way that the industry has stated per industry standards so why do we do it that way and one of the things
that maybe a pet peeve of mine is when I hear somebody say I've done it this way for 20 years or I've never had a problem
with it well you also probably never laid this recycled backing so it's
probably best that you understand what this particular piece of material how it
has to be handled and treated to effectively end in a good quality installation the last the expected time
for the end user yeah do you agree with that CJ do you agree with that yeah CJ is pretty quiet
um yeah yeah so we got CJ with us today um from fcica uh for the drawing and uh
so I'm sure she's excited to find the winner as much as we are so uh CJ
welcome to say about um the technology right because it's not
only the technology and the products that you're putting down it's the technology and the concrete what are
they putting in the concrete all this stuff adds up and if you're not you're if you're not trying to keep track of
everything that's changing then you're just gonna end up failing anyways because I mean just just look at the the
buckets of adhesive they're sometimes will will spread a bucket one week and
then the next week then you read the book it the notch sizes change well this change for a reason so yeah and it does
change it does change I mean we're we're can you talk through that a little bit of of how or at least why some of this
stuff changes because I think it's important for installers to understand that regardless guys and and and men and
women in the end in the field in the uh installation Cruise
just because a a ultimately you have to take
responsibility I guess what I'm trying to get to like you have to understand what you're putting down and understand
the proper Notch the the you know when to roll it how long to flash all of
these things that go into it but I thought if you could share kind of what what what happens when you do change say
a trial size or or whatever what what happens there are you testing in the in the
so we do a lot of inside testing ourselves um in our Labs but we also send a lot of
stuff out for extensive outside testing by organizations as well um some of the changes that might
present itself are you're most likely not going to hear about unless you pull out that data sheet and read it again
because it might change as of a week ago and those changes come up because new
products come out and they just because you say it's uh you know we we say that this glue is okay to use with a WPC well
you know within the last six months you might see different backings starting to come out and we get these products sent
to us to specifically test so they can be put on our adhesive can be put on their data sheets as okay to use with
our product and then sometimes we might find a problem down the line and then we have to reevaluate the entire line of
wpcs for instance just using it as an example so you know we're constantly testing all new products that are coming
out with the help of the manufacturers of the flooring themselves and and you know things come up that we find down
the road that you know might we might have a product that might work better um so so what what does the how do you
communicate that so on our end we have uh on our website
you can always go on our website uh robertsconsolidated.com every adhesive that we carries on there
all of our safety data sheets are on there all of our technical data sheets are on there specifically what you can
and cannot use it for trial notches coverage rate open time work time it's
all on there we make it very easy because what the bottom line is the number one tool that every installer has
with them on every job site is their phone okay so to try to make it as easy as possible that you can pull your phone
out and take a look at that product um you know I when I was installing we
we were dealing with flip phones it flip phones and beepers right so things have
changed a lot but a lot and they've made it a lot easier so my my advice to any installers before you go out to that job
the night before to spend 10 minutes and read up on your technical data sheets of the products that you're putting down
and make sure that when you go in the next day that you're not having a second guess yourself and and you know what
you're doing to make a more efficient day because that's where the money is at it's efficiency we were talking about it
yesterday when I was in here about you know how you can make so much more money being a more efficient installer so this
will make you more efficient uh nobody you know it doesn't matter how much you make on that job if you got to go back
and redo the job or pay for that product and again things change on these data
sheets we we want to give as a company give you the knowledge to do the job right
um and we hope that you guys are are following these instructions and everybody knows if you don't follow the instructions anything can happen I mean
we see them every day on social even when you do follow the instructions anything can happen anything can happen
you never know covered right if you have the knowledge you have the best uh chances of a
successful install yeah so story time I had a project uh back in 2016 that had a
claim on it and it had a it was an underlayment uh a from foam products
and uh it's called silencer and it has one side that has a film on it and one
side that does not and the installation struck instructions within the rolls
was different because they had changed their install instructions from film
down to film up so we installed the project film up per
the most uh uh you know relevant and recent installation instructions which was on
the website the role actually had the wrong install instructions so what what you just said
about knowing ahead of time looking it up on your phone or you know popping out the laptop and looking it up had we not
done that we would have installed it incorrectly in fact we got called on it
and they were like you're installing this wrong and we're like no we stay up with the industry standards uh on the
website so we always search for the most recent and relevant data uh install data
and so we were able to prove that yeah look go to the website look here it's newer and this is the correct way to
install it of course the manufacturer backed us up on that but the key here is knowing what you're doing and staying
keeping your the knowledge so that you do install it correctly and even then like you said we have a very complicated
industry with the environmental concerns and job site conditions and all this
stuff in the installer uh installation quality and and their skills and and
knowing their skill level but all that being said being being uh diligent in making sure
that you know what you're installing when you show up to the job adds to that efficiency you were talking about
earlier yeah make sure you do it before you get to your job you don't want to worry your customer when you're here
I do it anyways I just learned you know you know I got a question I wonder and I
just thought about this I wonder if there's a way to pull up like a chart over the last 20 years for some very
common adhesives or materials where the specs have changed uh you know like
where what year and what were the changes from solvent to water base and and and why those were changed right
like the science behind it I wonder if there's a way to to get that so that way um we can get a visual to some of the
installers or even myself so we can see who what when and where and when the changes made and how grouped together
some of those changes were um that's so large because you're talking
about all the Recycled backings on carpet tile yeah just a general language the lvts or whatever but the big numbers
of like when solvents were taken out by the EPA and you know all the
manufacturers had to scramble to try to create an adhesive that would hold our floors down
um and we went through a hard time I mean if you you guys were around you remember that I mean I was around when
we took solvents out and uh it was it was not fun and in the carpet World
they also introduced unitary backing about the same time so now we have a
very hard product to install that needs a lot of adhesive and a lot of grab with
um with adhesives that were just being formulated to uh abide by the new EPA
laws so that was a tough time to be an installer because I remember at one point the notch trial
for unitary backing was doggone near the same size as your v-notch uh ceramic
tile not uh trial it was damn near the same size it was so much glue
trying to keep your adhesive from squirting between your seams and such and it was a nightmare do you remember
that back in the oh mid late 90s
you guys I was 98 I was 98 I started 98. all right well yeah so it was uh but but
that's that's what we're getting at here is staying up to date you know you may have done it the same way for 20 years
and it succeed the problem is the materials have changed and they continue to change these guys are always trying
to find the most efficient product to help you be a great installer uh and I'm
speaking these guys I mean Roberts and and other adhesive manufacturers are are working hard to create great product
that makes yeah more efficient and better we missed the monobot error the mono
Bond we heard all about it from a couple of the same guys but model bomb this model bond that we missed that era I'd
like to add too you know keep your ears out for industry changes too because if something changes uh in the industry as
far as regulations of what can and cannot be done or what can and cannot be used uh when those changes happen to be
aware that you know the manufacturing term adhesives are going to probably change to adapt to that as well so it's
another thing to look out for when when you're talking about changes in technical data sheets too yeah and I
would add that you know there's organizations out there that have webinars and such that address a lot of
this I mean scic is one of them they have a monthly they have more than a monthly but they have webinars very
often that address some of these issues when there's a major change in the
flooring industry like they they will have a webinar about it so when you remember you can go back and re-watch
them yeah so you know join the fcica get involved I know it's several hundred
bucks and it may seem like a lot of money but at the end of the day one failure
averted you know saving yourself from one failure pays for that tenfold so
um I would love to see installers invest more in themselves this year that's what I would love I guess at the basis and I
don't know how we you know or measure that metric wise but overall
being more uh informed and better trained more tuned into the industry
like you're talking about where where you know when there's a change and you know uh and you can have
faith that the industry like there there are mechanisms out there to keep you informed you just gotta plug in and be
part of the industry not just hey I install I go home and I that that's it that's treating it almost like a hobby
treat your career like a doggone career and stay informed and stay plugged in and stay trained I mean look at
everybody on here everybody we've talked for for uh
doggone how many what episode we on 41 30 something weeks we've talked about
being trained like ever almost every episode we talk about making sure that
you're you're uh participating in the in the industry training and a lot of this can can uh keep you from making those
mistakes so yeah I think talking about the fcica is a good spot to actually do
this drawing what do you think yeah I think we are at that time so what we're gonna do now uh first off I want to
thank everybody for joining us today and remind everybody that uh what we're
drawing for today is the fcica uh
stem program it's the Ford progress scholarship uh sponsored by go Carrera
and we are going to draw the winner today so we're gonna I'm gonna uh mute myself here and turn it over to Ashland
to um do the drawing so
of course CJ she's just listened to us the whole time great conversation so you guys do a
great podcast do we have any suspenseful music
you could sing it yeah
everybody's muted I'm not muted
oh no controversy technical difficulties
okay sorry I've been over here talking to myself I apologize I don't know if you guys heard that so Carissa parr's
our winner and um we'll be shooting you an email
Carissa with the instructions on how to take advantage congratulations has been going on for uh what a couple of months
we've been uh going through it I want to thank everybody for
um submitting and uh getting involved and hopefully uh we can do this a few
more times over the next year and I want to thank the fcic for joining us today thank you CJ
um and uh yeah you got anything Stacy
um no just thank you very much go Carrera for doing this scholarship we appreciated the industry appreciates it
so that we can get more um certified installation managers out there um we the Sim program I know you guys
have been talking about it but um and training and everything but it's the only training program for the
installation manager process so it goes um from when you receive an estimate all
the way through like closing out the job and then there's even a claims module at the end as well so
um it definitely helps with planning out jobs um and obviously project management so
we appreciate your support and our um it's offered online so this um who did
you say won it again Paul Carissa Parr great so Carissa can um do it she can
become a Sim online or she can become a Sim at one of our in-person three-day system programs and we are just about to
release um we have an upcoming program February 21st through the 23rd in Charlotte North
Carolina um and then we'll have a few more throughout the year as well so in person
is great because it adds that networking component um Jose did it in person when he became a Sim
um but it's always available online too because sometimes that just works better for people being able to do it you know
at your own schedule in your own pace sure can I ask you a question CJ
um obviously it's called Sam which is certified installation manager but there
would you say there's a lot of value to installers who've been around uh maybe
running several Crews or several people there there's some value a lot of value
there for the installer as well is that yeah absolutely so especially if you
have multiple Crews and you're working on multiple projects anytime you're managing multiple projects
um I definitely think that this is beneficial for you for an installer and it's also a
really great next step in your career path so um for any installer if you want to you
know follow a career path and stay in the flooring industry becoming an installation manager is definitely the
great next you know great next step for that so um yeah and then there's definitely
brings awareness yeah for sure yeah we've talked over
um over several podcasts about the fact that that understanding what
companies are being taught through the Sim program is by itself really valuable
for you to understand why decisions are made within a company that you might be doing business with you may be doing you
may be a stub working for perform with preferred flooring well you can kind of understand if you've went through it why
Jose may make a decision or or um you know set a job up a certain way
that you may not agree with but this is why he does it and so there's just a lot
of benefit I think to anybody in the flooring industry to become a Sim but
um I don't want installers to feel like it just is uh installation manager position it it is but like you said it's
a good uh next step for uh furthering your career but it's also just I think is going to make you a better installer
absolutely cross training is everything right and there you go these three but especially in flooring so
awesome go ahead that's kind of what I was gonna get into as well because it's like you
know what what can the installers do the installers can try and actually you know
talk to the sales people or you know their project managers to to kind of see what they go through on a daily basis so
they it's not it's not so far separated because you look at these groups and it's always
like salesmen are only thinking about one thing and installers are only thinking about one thing and it's like
how do we bridge that Gap so everyone can actually agree on something other
than we need more installers yeah it brings perspective and it definitely helps open up that line of communication
right like from an installer perspective if you're an installer you take a SIM program it it gives you insight as to
what the sales person or the sales team has to go through and what they're looking at to come up with a final
number or come up with a schedule for the installer um and for the management or the sales
team it gives them perspective from the installation side as to what type of problems the installers are facing on
projects on job sites so it helps them understand what to look for to help
mitigate that before the project starts it's about being proactive not reactive right being reactive sometimes it's
already too late but but if you can be proactive and eliminate some scenarios before the project starts before it gets
out of hand or um make corrections to some pricing um on on the next couple of projects and
let that pricing evolve to where it needs to be so it's profitable for the company whether their installers are
hourly or for both the subcontractor and uh the the sales team involved there's there's a lot more to it than just
getting a little more knowledge it does bridge that Gap and that's what's awesome about some program
well there we go bridge the gap with sin all right guys well hey everyone I
appreciate you joining us today uh again I want to congratulate Carissa on her on
her uh Sim congratulations in there so uh that's really awesome and um we will
be back here next Tuesday as well so we're going to continue the series about
what we may want to see uh what's next week so it's manufacturers and Distributors
so we have some of the things that we want to see
from them and uh just to Prelude that a little bit I think it's really getting uh you have been involved with plenty of
installers but from a a big picture manufacturers understanding
um how important it is like they'll say it's important to train but
what what are we doing as an industry to make sure from a manufacturer side to
make sure that the installer touching your goods and putting it down is trained how do we know and how can we
make sure we know and then What mechanisms can we use to help keep track
of that and um you know there's a lot of I think there's a lot boiled into the
manufacturer side and what they can do to help the installation community and and thus I believe it's the foundation
of the flooring industry is the installer so um if we build that Foundation strong this next year we can look at some
prosperity and um you know we just all got a band together guys again on the
podcast go to shows uh you know get involved um and uh email any one of us if you
want to know how to do that so I wore my my ties a competition shirt today because Kevin's going to be competing
this year what's that Kevin's going to be competing in the carpet category this year so
I had to where where my competition shirts to tune in tune in let's see what happens right it's gonna be somebody
they have carpet tile there this year [Laughter]
well awesome Kevin well good luck and we'll see you at Tice I appreciate it thanks for having me on guys all right
thanks everyone
The Huddle - Episode 30 - What We'd Like to See in 2023
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose start their journey on the conversation around what they'd like to see change or improve within the industry in the upcoming year. This will be a 3-part series and they will dive in deeper into different facets of the industry in following episodes.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
we come at you every single week on Tuesdays at 3 P.M Central to discuss
maintaining forward progress in your flooring career uh we just finished up a four-part
series with Daniel and Jose a preferred flooring out of Michigan uh on relationships uh I went back and
watched some of that uh some of those videos um on YouTube there's some good stuff in
there so if you haven't if you missed that uh those that series
um I would highly recommend you go check it out on YouTube and um or one of our LinkedIn accounts
um I know that uh we share on our social as well as YouTube and so
does uh preferred flooring um on a lot of their social channels so there's some good stuff in there guys
you had some good nuggets so um everybody was a contributor for sure
yeah yeah I agree and the way it was broken up into individual
um kind of circumstances or people I guess you know
how to how to have uh because former relationships there's this underlying uh
Concepts but to do it you know in in a meaningful way you kind
of gotta customize those uh for each uh type of person you may be
building a relationship with there's some do's and don'ts in there and a lot of good stuff came out okay
so we're coming up on 2023 guys how do you feel
I can't believe 2022 is at the end right now like where did it go
you know I remember thinking in June like it's already halfway over
at the end of June and here we are already you know what you know December and
we were sitting at the fcic on that mid-year meeting together I was thinking the same thing like holy smokes where's
time going that seems like it's just as yesterday
though I can't believe it
well hopefully Santa got uh the kids everything they wanted and you guys too
yeah so here we go 2023 is uh right around the corner here got one more uh extended
holiday time off uh for a lot of Industries and uh I know a lot of people
are setting you know New Year's resolutions and goals and things of that
nature um I don't think there's anything wrong with that whatsoever as long as it's uh
The Habit is uh you know trying to execute on those goals and the habits not just setting new goals every year
that you don't actually um have a plan to uh you know to execute
on that being said what's uh what's your guys's 2023
um kind of Outlook you want to do like a like a personal in
in a work or business you said yeah I think so you know this week's this week's huddles on what we'd like to see
in 2023 and just I'm thinking we could turn this into a three-part series uh I
think it'd be good and it's really like what what are your uh you know from an
industry standpoint you know what do we want to see in 2023 and let's talk to
some some of the organizations let's get the FCF on and and the ntca and
um you know get there get their outlooks and their
feedbacks and share that with the uh with the audience and uh we could do the same for installers and companies and
maybe uh make it a little bitty uh series here but you know
what we'd like to see in 2023 I think is a personal industry and the and
companies so go ahead and you can start
um oh did we lose them can you hear me yeah
all right I don't know industry and business-wise I just uh
it's really hard to find people right now so maybe finding a few good people would uh do us do us some good
and uh just keep on moving forward
personally it's go on vacation without kids
oh that's funny that is hilarious um
I'll go ahead and edit that one so we'll let Daniel said to you right like uh find out why it's so hard to find
people uh what would probably be one of one of my goals I guess is try to find
out why not just us why everyone in general is
having a hard time maintaining uh maybe in the trades maybe the trades maintaining in-house employees versus
the subcontractor you know why do people go back and forth trying to find out the reasons why
um would probably help in maintaining retaining and maybe
developing new relationships uh you know I'm definitely open to conversation on that with whoever is finding success in
that category for sure because we don't seem to be finding uh very much success
in that category uh lately a lot of people around us don't so that's that would be
a goal for 2023 um yeah maybe we can unpack that a little bit
on the future huddle and maybe even a little bit on this huddle but yeah and then
personally I mean the personal thing is just uh you know China and this this and personal and work
right like trying to be smarter more efficient with my time
over extending over extending my myself uh
on a personal level like at home and or at work which causes stress on one end
or the other and that's might be too many projects less projects less projects
nevertheless projects it's always more projects there you go well I I think
um for me it's like what I'd like to see is are from an
industry perspective I'd just like to see our training and access to training
and the uh ability
um to be more I would like that in the industry that
you know the the players or the participants in training uh flooring
installers to have more presence and and more people know about them and and and
their um uh you know they're training events and
their certifications and such because one of the main uh responses we get a go
Carrera when we ask people why they're not certified is because they don't know where or they're they're why they're
they don't have any trainings they don't know about them or they don't know where to go uh
literally some people don't even know about say CFI or Nast or any of them
um right so I think you know as an industry and this isn't just their responsibility it's part of what we do
on this call we we talk about this all the time so I'm hoping that that grabs hold a little bit better
um I'm hoping 2023 for companies um
maybe result in or or maybe matures throughout the year uh and
the the Market doesn't go into this super low
bid I've been through a few downturns and I've been through the 20
you know the 2008 uh recession um people get really desperate uh
companies do and will bid work um too cheap and they'll have their labor
numbers too cheap and those kinds of things I'm hoping that that does not
happen I'm hoping that as an industry um we're able to maintain decent margins
as companies I should say and that uh that we don't punish the installer uh
particularly the independent you know subcontracting installer uh you know
it's not like you can go lower your in your in-house guys wages so they're
pretty safe right um it's the subs you know a lot of times they get
squished and pushed down and and they're they get
um you know pressured for cheaper prices and I'm just hoping that that doesn't happen this year uh as as the market
seems to be slowing a little bit so uh that's a that's a good point you know
what that uh that kind of makes me realize that projected goal
s might only be a solution for the problem that is in front of you because
what what Daniel said what I said uh and even when she said if we start if we
find a solution for that and we bind those answers all that does is move on to trying to
find me the solution for the next issue that that we have right so what you just said right there yeah that makes a lot
of sense it's blanket overall because you can start on this side of it or you
start on that side of it but it all it all equals the same the same solution at the end right you
hoping for for more prosperous opportunities more
um more opportunities period and more opportunities equals more work more work equals more entrepreneurs more employees
and that's what you're right I do I agree with that man yeah and I guess you know speaking to
yours and Daniel's point I'd love for for um installers out there that are not you
know to do a uh you know an inventory check or maybe a self-assessment and if
you're not doing so well as a sub whether it's you're behind on taxes or there are some other things that are
plaguing your your company uh maybe think about working for somebody
um you know I I hate to say it but I I get you know I
get garnishment letters on Subs even you know here and there and that I'm hoping
I don't see any more of those I'm hoping that you know uh those guys that maybe
need that oversight or they need that company to with withhold the the funds
and pay it in for them on taxes and and uh on child support issues or whatever
uh you know if if you're having problems covering those things it's a pretty good
sign because we just went through one hell of a uh upturn I mean it was busy I
don't I didn't talk to anybody who wasn't busy uh so it was the right time to be making money as a sub and as a
company um and if you're not or you've had some issues there you might think about if
you're in Michigan call these guys and go to work uh for Daniel and Jose uh some of the greatest guys you'll meet
um and awesome at the technical side of the flooring business so great
but um yeah maybe think about working for a company I'm just hoping for a prosperous
2023 that a downturn does not end up uh erasing a lot of the gains that were
made over the last couple of years with for Subs right you know you know a lot
of guys look at it as because our industry is more I Want To Be My Own Boss I want to be
independent and all this and realistically like you know we talked about it a few episodes ago if
the guys that we were working for would have just said all right we'll give you this you know extra week of vacation or
whatever we'd probably still be working for a company right now but it's I wonder
I wonder if there's a and I don't know obviously this is uh trade specific
right but is there is there like a survey that uh subcontractors or um any
provider can take to see um I think if you just look at the groups and when someone talks about
hourly employees how much bashing there is on there about you're leaving money on the table
you're only hurting yourself it's like it goes on and on about how you should
only do your own thing if you're in the industry and that's it but
like you said you get those guys you're getting garnishments for them and it's like
if if you're not good with making money hourly you're not going to be good with
making money you know per square foot either it's it doesn't just magically
you know yeah it's I'm making more money so that's gonna solve all my problems that's not how it is it's actually you
got to be more in control of it yeah if you can't can't manage your hourly money you're not going to be able
to manage sub money uh I think that there's also
um this you know the overarching deal is our
industry has this big push for uh sorry
my granddaughters here with me today so you may see her walk behind me every now and again
um totally fine my little introducer might as well but uh we'll bring her in here in a little bit
to uh introduce her at the end um but
when you're working there's too much there's more responsibility on a sub than there is hourly obviously
um so you just I think if people self-assess and honestly like look at it if you're if all your bills are paid and
things are going well and you pay your your employees well and you're set up and your guys that work under you or for
you are actual employees and you're doing it the right way amen but do some self-assessment and
maybe you need to work for a company and uh if you do there's plenty looking so
um and that's what I was trying to say I wonder if there's uh um something out there for for us as an
industry to to self-assess if there's a survey for us to take to see where
algorithms would place an individual you know like well I can tell you a couple of them bring up two points first off go
career can do that uh we can you know survey all the installers on the network
uh we're building a feature now to be able to to do that to be able to talk to
the entire industry so or our entire network so when a new feature comes out
that a video goes out on how to use the feature information goes out and that
same mechanism could be used for something like that uh Jose which would
be like hey how how uh satisfied are you currently as an hourly employee or
something like that or some level of uh right or as a sub you know because again
the garnishment thing is right like um when we worked hourly like people oh man
I'm being Garners oh man child support oh man uh you know bad taxes from when I
was a sub this and that you know there's just a lot of things and when you're hourly you're right it gives
more work on the office staff they have to do a little bit more work on their end but you do get that debt taken care
of uh that way and as a as a sub getting a 1099 you can
you have the option to dodge it as long as possible until you're back into a corner but you can still find a way to
dodge it well I'm no accountant guys and I'm not going to give Financial advice but I will give you this don't Dodge
your freaking taxes yeah please don't please don't because I'm telling you right now
and you you will you will end up paying it in one BR if nothing else
and you'd never paid it and you died you pay that that could get transferred
to your to your uh you know to other people uh first off secondly
you did pay for it you just paid for it and stress and regret your whole life always worried about the
the tax man getting you um I I would just suggest if you can't run a business
um there's there's no harm there's no like negative to go work
for a company take some classes learn about the business and then go back out on your own when you feel like you've
got a good plan and a good handle on things I'm not saying don't be a sub I support Subs I have no reason for good
Subs not to exist I love them but I also have plenty of hourly employee
installers and I love those guys too and I hope that uh you know I think it's
about being in the right spot for yourself and how you are as a person and how well you are at managing risk and
managing I literally got a phone call um somewhere around noon today from a
sub asking to come to work for me by the hour uh got got
I guess drug through the dirt on a project and didn't get paid by someone I
don't know the story behind it but it you know they likely did not have a written agreement which is another big
problem with subcontractors they they don't get written agreements from the companies that they work for that's why
I go Carrera when companies who use go Carrera every time they create a work order that is a digital contract
everything on there is enforceable by law and it's enforceable on both sides
so it's a very Equitable uh scenario so you know if you're a sub and you're out
there just taking work on you know notebook paper or you're taking work on
verbal agreements stop doing that figure out a way uh join the go career Network work with companies who give you work
orders through that or encourage your company to get on the go career Network so that they can start giving you uh you
know appropriate work orders right and even even deeper than that because we've been in this situation before to where
it's like uh you're talking about subcontractors and then the you know the the companies
lowering the rates and stuff and then they feel a strong arm to like if I don't do this they're not going to give me any more work
and it's like sometimes you have to realize that
no work is better than the work that you're going to be doing losing money
cutting ties with some of these these companies right because it if they're
not gonna appreciate you why are you going to keep on building them up
and yeah they you know we we know it's too many guys that you know even that
you know that that we've talked to personally that have come in the office and uh you know they're like can we do
something for you guys and then we we have them do a job and then I'm like hey send me an invoice and he's like uh you
know can I can I just go ahead and give this work quarterback to you it's like man that means you're not keeping track
of anything yeah yeah that's what that's that's why
um you know that's why we found such a big need for for go Carrera to be honest the
one of the biggest things it does is give the sub some accounting
tools running you can see what you ran throughout the year you can you know
have your accountant just jump into your account and download all the transactions they need to do your taxes
that year like it's it makes it um it gives all the tools that a sub
needs to be a sub but even with go Carrera if you don't execute then
you probably need to be an hourly that's that's to me that's
you know reasonable um so yeah I would love that's what I'd love to see in 2023 is just more access
to trainings better uh more marketing to
continued marketing I should say to the high schoolers and that stuff they've they seem to have gotten some really
good traction the fcef over 2022 uh in 20. they're making waves for sure yeah
so I'd like to see that really hit almost mainstream and have like
community colleges you know 30 or 40 of them run in their program that would be
that would be fantastic go ahead go ahead no go ahead we talked
to someone local here right and uh it was us and a few of the other
companies in the area and what what happened was is that those other
companies are just what can you do to get me more bodies right now it's not I
want to have qualified people it's I just want people and if this is an Avenue to get more people in then I want
to be a part of it but I don't want to put in any money and I don't want to put in any time I just want the people
so it's up to the point to where you know they email us back and they're like yeah there's too far of a separation on
your guys's ideas it's it's not gonna work yeah right as of right now it's not
going to work and and some of it I understand it may have to operate on volunteer time until the program uh gets
traction and you know we would find a way to make that happen but at the same time it's
you know I'm long long term for the program versus a quick fix on unless
what one of the podcasts we had to labor shortage right like how much of it was a
labor shortage because of qualified people uh certified people versus uh you
know versus just bodies you know it's I I was
looking at an opportunity to build the economy in our area over the next you know five and ten years instead of build
uh somebody else's labor workforce right away you know it's just well there's yeah the if you want to Independent
quick labor resource then you need to join go Carrera if you want to work on
your employee installer and build your company up in a way uh long term then
that's what the fcef is doing I think it's not probably
um a good place to start to think that you're going to get a bunch of high schoolers to come into your company with you know
eight ten weeks of training and that's and solving your labor problems no
they're causing you more work if if you're going to be a part of hiring the
the the um the graduates of their program of the SEF program you still have work to do
like they still need training they still need to be made you still need to make sure that they're with uh the the right
type of of uh installer like you cannot
just that's not a quick fix that this is a long that's a what they're doing is more of a long-term fix
you know I wonder too like uh you know we talked about the FDA Captain attraction that they have I wonder if
some of the other organizations can just be a little more um
a little more open to putting a face in the name out there to get a little more traction and and their
Silo of the industry right I wonder if that's it because FCA fcef is pretty
broad they're bringing attention to everything um you know go Carrera is definitely
putting the name out for everything all at once but I wonder if these other entities as individuals
um could put forth a little more effort in 2023 to bring more awareness
um you know you mean like individual like one yeah like for example like the
ntca that's just in tile yeah like hey you know put forth a
little bit of effort not just to your to your market right not just to those
guys but maybe there's somebody out there who might be attracted to that who has no idea that that program exists and
if they're well I think offering awareness to everybody all at once then nobody ever know and
well it's kind of a good point and the reason I say that is because one of the problems I think is so many of the uh
organizations are just trying to get you to sign up for their thing they're trying to get you to be you know
like a member of the ntca or a member of the of CFI or member of this or a member
of that like focus on and the union or install they're the
same like all they're really it's like a catalyst to then get you into the Union right it's like let's focus on making
our our talent better uh at every level
and uh every level yes 100 not not so focused on getting more members
necessarily but improving the health of the installer uh community
and uh another thing too is you made me think about this it's not one installer is just going to go
after one organization or affiliation to be to be a part of right if they get
their foot in the door with uh option A then they're going to find out about option b c and d anyway or vice versa
and they're going to inquire on that if they want to further their education if they want to learn more they're they're
going to look at all those resources so the the more educated and involved and
individual and installer or a company gets the more options they find and it's
going to broaden their Horizons they're not going to say I'm just going to stick with you and that's it like I don't use
one type of adhesive and just stick with that and that's it you know I don't just use one
prep or we don't just install one flooring you know it's just you have to entertain them all in order to to remain
relevant to be honest with you I already stay with the times
I think in order for more people too because you brought up the point earlier that a lot of people don't know about
these organizations and when you go to at least Distributors around here
there's no information right and you have all these manufacturer
that you have all the manufacturers preaching you know this organization you know
we're affiliated with them we're affiliated with them but Distributors don't do that and that's where all the
installers go is to the distributor yeah you just made me think of that Dave Chappelle's uh skit where's that
I I drink Coke and Pepsi Pepsi paid me most recently so I like Pepsi better
and that's my that might be what it is but Daniel's Daniel's right like your
local Distributors a small scale as that might be that's the most common place for uh uh individual installer to go and
purchase the hand tool supplies um you know the specialty tools and that's probably a great place for these
places to start is it I don't want to say advertising right but essentially it is advertising but that's a really good
point there Dan it's a good place to start and to put put some kind of effort into something
like that well the Distributors you know if they could team up or the or you know
um training entities could team up with them and make sure that the Flyers are on the counter and that the the counter
guys or the salesmen at the Distributors are actively pushing the the training that's in the area
that is you know that's one of the big pushes for for us is to
get our counter pieces on at every Dell tile and allow now not just one distributor of course
have 300 locations but um you know and then pushing people to our
to the training page of GoPro go career has nothing to do with it we just put that resource together so that people
can go on and have one aggregated spot to look
um we got to do a better job of that this year like getting every training
that could possibly be gotten I think we're probably 80 percent on that still
um but uh but we're trying and I I think that um I'm hoping that that's a a big
push this year the people go get trained uh people go um you know you start investing in
yourself I think one of our first podcasts together was about investing you know uh in yourself and your tools
and your equipment and I'm hoping that that happens a lot this year I'm hoping that installers really see the start to
under that it's got it it kind of has to be driven by the industry you know like
the expectation um and I'm hoping that you know with a high
enough expectation that the guys and uh men and women in in our uh installation
Community take that step to continue to go get uh you know more training
um and build themselves and and really invest in themselves and when I say training I do mean flooring training but
I also mean Financial Training like there's plenty of courses online that can teach you
some some real you know basic fundamental practices in managing your
finances um there's all kinds of stuff but people have to take the step on their own
that's one thing you if it's so easy then and you or if you need it to be
that easy that you're not even willing to do a little Google searching then you probably should be a employee installer
right back to that man it's weird how everything kind of circles back right it yeah it goes like
full circle like I'm not saying get rid of Subs by any by any stretch I'm just saying like let's
make sure that you know well we can't make sure you got to make sure yourself that you're really set up set yourself
up for success yeah yeah you know and I don't know if a lot of people know this too but there
was one point um when when I had to give up working uh you know having
uh there was we had a we had a I had a thing before a visit before the third flooring but I had to give that up to go
work hourly because there was there was just that that point
um after 9 11 where you know it took a little bit to hit but I wasn't over my head right like
there was no way that I could sustain what I was doing and be successful and put myself in a horror the people that
were working with me at the time in a position for success for success
in the direction I was going so I I waited probably until it was a
little bit too late but not to the point where there was no digging myself out but I did man I went back in I bit the
bullet I made I I don't want to say I made a deal but I made a deal like this company wanted me to come back and
work for them hourly but I had I had guys who needed to put food on the table for their families and I worked them
into the deal um I didn't really get the best part of the the deal right but it wasn't about
me right it was about all of us as a whole and they were taking care of him um you know Daniel was part of that a
couple other gentlemen and those other gentlemen are in a really good spot right now like they're they're you know we've separated
and don't work together anymore but they're doing well for themselves man and had I not made that choice then I
don't I'm sure that they'd still be doing well for themselves but I don't know where I would have been right mindset might have
been different if I waited another month or two months um but
I had to make a choice and I felt like my choice affected more than myself
yeah I agree I I started as an hourly so I got that taste first
um probably the reason I became a sub was the company that I was working for was
like treating us as Subs anyway we were paid by the hour and we did get W-2s but
we got no vacation no days off no holiday days off no I mean like you got
the holiday off you didn't get paid so we all tried to work on holidays like um
and no vacation time or anything like that um so I was like well if I'm not gonna
have any of that anyway I might as well go work for myself you know um so I kind of started as an hourly
employee first but either way I'm not saying that there is the path I'm just
saying there's a path and for you to pick that path you really need to be cognizant of what your skill sets are
and if you want to be a sub or you want to own your own install company that's
fine but please try to get out and get educated on all the stuff you need you
may be a fine flooring installer but if you're not good with money or you don't understand or have the discipline uh to
you know put money aside for your taxes and your you know a little Nest Egg for uh you know fixing equipment and taking
care of your trucks and your cars and I mean there's a lot that goes into it I
mean uh I think anybody that's in Florian has probably either had the experience themselves or
knows someone who had the experience of being an hourly employee doing the math that you know gets paid out on it and
saying man I should I should be a sub you know like either you've done that yourself or or you certainly know
someone who has so I I um I agree with that and hey
that's where the um the Sim program comes in handy too right like if you're
an employee or a sub it would actually help shed some light on some of the responsibilities uh as an employee from
an employee perspective but it also helps shed some light if you're a sub looking to grow or to to add to what
you're doing and give you an idea of additional responsibilities to think about yeah it gives you a good uh insight into
you know what what um flooring companies have to deal with and
and what kind of that side is so you can better work with them I whoever wins
this next week is going to be it's a real treat I think so is that when the drawing is next week
yep drawings isn't it next week is it this week
the week after 10th sorry okay week after
um but anyway yeah that's that's a great I think that's great for everybody well I I'm uh
we may not be doing this next week as far as uh digging deeper into 2023 but
the week this month this January I think I'm gonna we'll do a series on setting
yourself up for success in 2023 and uh see if we can get some Nazi we'll get
some uh guest panelists on um I've I've been asked several times by
multiple people about being on the uh on the podcast with us so this this year
that's another that's more of my personal goal is to have uh you know
a dozen of the podcasts maybe be with uh you know more uh
panelists and with us and um trying to add some expertise to some
of our talking so and if they're being said anybody uh listening or watching if you guys have
any anybody in mind or any anything in mind that you need some any questions that you might need answered or want
answers to or information and go ahead and ask and let's share let's see what we can do about trying to find an answer
or finding the right person to help or come on you know come on to the podcast we're pretty low-key here it's not real
hard to get on here it's like if you if you want to be on and have a chat with us um I think all of us I know Daniel and
Jose um feel the same way it's like I'm not saying I have all the answers I just
have 25 years of experience and a lot of Hard Knocks and I have that experience
that I can share you guys have your experience that you can share that doesn't mean we have all the answers so
if you got some ideas or you want to come on and ask some questions or post
some solutions to the to the audience uh I encourage you just to shoot us an
email um and support a good career and say I'd like to be on the podcast and then I'll
reach out to you and we'll get you on yeah I like it well this is short not that short 40
minutes crazy quick time goes um
so I I wish you guys the best uh I wish I wish our industry the best for 2023
um I'll leave you at least my perspective here is we're gonna have
to work hard folks um 2023 is going to have its own
unique challenges just like 2022 did and years before that
be prepared to Pivot and you know make some adjustments throughout the year and
just be be ready to work hard in 2023 it's it's going to be a
I think it can be a very rewarding year for those who understand that things can
get tough and still be very prosperous it doesn't just because it gets a little
harder a little tougher it doesn't mean it can't be prosperous so let's have a prosperous 2023 by
understanding that sometimes that need that means like pulling your bootstraps up and and really getting getting ready
for a a good hard-working year nothing wrong with that sometimes the years go
you can't you can't bat the work away there so much and then sometimes you're
going to be trying to drive the nail to the bottom or or some people in your in your uh Market
maybe trying to drive the price down to the bottom uh don't participate
um we've we've pulled it out of several bids already uh because we found out who's been it and we just said it's not
worth our time until yeah you know and uh the gdcs will
have to make their adjustments to make sure that they're getting them the competitive bids they want but
you know if if there if somebody's misusing labor by driving their labor
prices down um this might be a really strong
um statement but you kind of have an enemy in me if you're driving labor down and trying to just beat your subs to
death to get work I think you're going about it wrong and
um I have a pretty firm belief in that like do your best to maintain
the gains that these gentlemen and and women have made over the last couple of
years in increasing prices and uh you know try to find an advantage that
you have over your competitors that doesn't boil down to being the absolute cheapest person in the uh in the market
yep you're right on that one all right my friend well we lost your brother
tell him uh oh we did yeah bye Daniel he he uh dropped off
about five minutes ago and uh
hung up like oh no they heard that I was going
to say well I want to wish you guys up there uh some warm days and a very prosperous 2023 have a good New Year's
we'll catch you next week and um we're gonna be drawing
um for the uh forward progress uh scholarship on the 10th and we're gonna
do it live it's gonna be fun and um I make that announcement every week other
than that I feel like we ought to ready break they served all right man well thanks
for joining me tell your brother I said um you know best of luck this year and
uh we will be in touch all right brother have a good one all right thanks everyone bye
The Huddle - Episode 29 - Relationships Pt. 4 - Vendors
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose wrap up their 4-part series by focusing on relationships with your vendors.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody and welcome to the
Huddle we're coming to every Tuesday to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
with me as always Daniel and Jose have preferred flooring out of Michigan I'm
Paul Stewart with go Carrera and Stuart Associates out of Wichita
we are rounding out our four-part series on relationships as it applies to the
business of flooring so we've discussed homeowners we've discussed
um General Contractors we've discussed installers today is the final piece to that which is suppliers and distributors
vendors uh this one is kind of near and dear to my heart
um from one perspective if you can be pleasant
and build relationships with your vendors you can give yourself a strategic
Advantage because they are just used to being treated like by many a people
they're used to people calling them on the phone and cussing them out and yelling because their stuff's not here
or something like that all you gotta do is just ratchet it down be respectful
and deliver you know that doesn't mean they don't mess up and we don't have uh
you know corrective conversations but at the end of the day
um be kind um just be kind they're people and
everybody makes mistakes uh sometimes it the the mistake is a lot of times not
even the person you're on the phone with who you're treating like crap so
um it's cold as cold as the Dickens out here in Wichita Kansas we've got us ourselves a uh
blizzard moving in so um thus the hat so
gentlemen uh what's your initial take on the the
relationships you guys have with your vendors and suppliers and and people
so um I guess let's just go locally right let's just start on a smaller scale with
our local distributors um weekend it had the luxury of
starting years ago and becoming a familiar face with uh well with some of the local guys uh just as installers
working for other people um and because of that we've watched
individuals grow um in their company and as they watch us
uh grow a little bit as well so it kind of created a bond a relationship because
I've known these guys for 20 plus years now you know a lot of them
and does it give us an advantage on some things maybe yes but
there's there's also a friendship there where I don't try to use that friendship to take advantage of
pricing or to use anything else for that so did you become friends prior to or
were you friends through your business I well it was a majority of it's been through the business yep but I mean like
when you see someone consistently over the course of 20 years you end up talking to them for a while
yeah especially when you're we we would go to um you know local Distributors and
just hang out in there for an hour or so just to talk to everyone see how
everyone's doing and take them some while this one is my son's baseball team but we
you know take them some cups and stuff and they said oh we're not supposed to show favoritism or anything it's like
it's a cup man [Laughter] well
you know the relationships with the vendors you if if you do it right now I
just want to point out you guys are installers at your core I mean it's where you came
in you probably started the relationship there and I got to be honest it seems like
installers are are better at that they they like like you said Daniel they'll
hang out at the distributor drink some coffee have a donut before they get out to their job site that kind of thing
um companies when we talk to um our vendors a lot of times they'll
they'll just tell us thank you for being you know Pleasant um
payment and things like that are are obviously important to to pay pay the
vendor on time that obviously helps with vendor relations but the day-to-day
person you deal with at your vendor uh at any of the vendors those people don't
you know take take the the payments or whatever you know it's the credit department your your job with or my job
is always uh been to form relationships and
um I do expect I mean I I I'm a little different than you um on that uh
particular subject there Dan Jose is I actually do leverage those relationships
I mean we're friends for a reason we became friends through business normally
but we're friends for a reason it's usually because we've done things right by them and they've done things right by
us in business and so then you kind of birds of a feather kind of thing you
know you you enjoy working with people like that so you know I'll leverage
those relationships to try to get better pricing if I can uh obviously you don't
go to the well every single week but you know you you certainly want to I
certainly feel it's it's a good practice to uh leverage those relationships so
other other companies can do it too like you could be nice too but a lot of times
they're just they don't talk to their employees about treating their vendors well so uh you know some some shop May
uh allow their project managers or something to call and and get rude with
the uh customers or with the vendor um and that happens in my company too
but I always pull the employee aside and talk to them about it and say these guys are important to us that's who we do uh
our largest purchasing with and it's important that we maintain good vendor relationship
so so I wanted to add to what you just said so how about uh when you said leverage that's a better way to put it I don't
intentionally leverage it right we might make little smart comments here and there but see Daniel and I work as a
team so when when I go in and I inquire or I talk on the phone and I inquire I
always follow it up with let me talk to Daniel about that and they they go like oh no
let me change this up because I know Daniel's just gonna say well you know I missed uh x and x website uh it's this
much money so you know because of because of the friendship and they understand our personalities we we do
get favorable pricing on almost every I don't think we've paid we get power pricing on a lot of things
for how small we are and um it's because of the the relationship and
the loyalty and and we we do go hang out in there we do go talk to them about
well and I'm I'm assuming that you guys specify some work that takes work we do
you know selling their products I mean if you do it right we're like their salesman or I should say if they do it
right if if the relationship's good then we're like three salesmen to them they
don't have to pay they just got to give us good pricing that's the price for us to be out pushing your products and and
and building your re your brand in the market so I mean that's the payment
you're not getting any compensation like their their sales people do or like
their sales reps do so your compensation is preferred pricing if I'm bringing you
work I I do expect preferred pricing on the on the uh out there in the market
you know maybe one day we'll work up to the the point where we have enough sales to uh just automatically get the the
best possible pricing we can um we're working up to that point though but well in the meantime build the
relationships yeah yeah so our the relationship with some of our vendors is you know definitely stronger than others
and you can tell that with uh who we're always pushing like you said you you build that relationship you
become their salesman for free right but you get better pricing so you know that 25 cents a
square foot adds up quick on big projects yeah and you know
um some of the the salesmen have actually approached us and this was during like covid and then starting to
get out of it and they you know they approach us and they said you know we know you guys are small so if you need
to push out your your payment terms right we can go out to 90 120 he said
you let me know where you need to be in order to make sure you guys you know are gonna stay afloat and you know that that
was awesome that they would do that yeah that that that right there is
outside of pricing that's a a huge benefit is you know them holding a
receivable a little longer for you is a big deal I mean that can help cash flow
um certainly when you start talking about your your main vendors
um that can be a huge thing that can be you know a substantial Improvement to
your cash flow over the course of that you know 90 days or whatever
do you guys um sorry no I was just gonna say uh do you guys
look at it as building these personal relationships with the counter person
and the sales rep and and the owner Maybe
what helped obviously um after 2020 I mean they
already liked us but after Daniel ended up uh winning uh resilient installer of the year in 2020
um they just had a lot of inside jokes and they're like oh we're Superstar this and
it was pretty funny right I mean uh so so we just uh you know we have very thick skin and
we've made fun of ourselves with it uh made fun of the situation but it went further than we thought it would go but
they just um it opened up more doors uh with more of the people internally there
um so with those doors being open we take advantage of that and then create more relationships now we're
not just knowing the couple guys at the front counter and uh the the rep who who's been coming to the office or who's
been calling us and texting us and chit chatting for the past few years now it's uh you know it's higher up than them
it's corporate it's up the ladder um and then well that right there is has
helped our relationship with everybody overall because now even the delivery guys
um they're um they like us too because we've never
belittled a delivery guy like yeah go put the stuff over there or hey you know
the keys are right there yeah this is where I want it why do you unload it here they always tell us to back up man
I got this it's like nah man I'm trying to help you out too yeah I mean you have other things to do I mean and they're
like man nobody ever helps us like that like well I don't know why not like I know you
have other stops I know you have other things to do or if it's the end of the day I know you want to go home too so there's no reason for me to watch you
work yeah that's a good point um
I don't know that we have a choice I mean at our office when our after about
10 o'clock our two Warehouse guys are out delivering and all that's left is
our backup which is one of our PMs and then it's Joel who's our CEO and then
it's me I mean you know sometimes you just gotta unload trucks and help people
out you know there's been a relationship thing I mean if you think about it uh working
with your sales reps um if you got a good relationship with them you may get preferred pricing but I
would tell you story after Story of times when we needed something on a
weekend and they'd come in open up their the they're closed and
they'll come in and open it up and give me what I need or give our one of our guys what they need or staying late uh we used to have
one of our guys he doesn't work for us anymore he's still a friend of mine um but he was with me for probably 15 or
16 years and they his name was Ray and they called him late in the day Ray almost
every vendor late in the day Ray and he got that reputation of like you
know calling him and they'd help him out and and uh whether it's a weekend or you
know a little bit late on a Friday night even I mean it's it's building those relationships with the counter people as
well that they're willing to stay you know a little bit longer uh to help
someone else out and you know they wouldn't do that for just anybody if they don't like you or you're a jerk
they'll be like well we closed it for I'm so sorry well it's Unique with us because one of
the Distributors over here you know one of the counter guys that we met 20 plus years ago is now our direct sales person
so it's like you you start that relationship there and now you know he'll come in here and he'll hang out
for a couple hours too just sometimes wait if these guys are watching he doesn't hang out for a
couple hours we just made that up talking about work and stuff yeah all
work but yeah it's it you started you know to treat everyone the same because
you never know where they're gonna end up right well and it's the right thing to do it's just like we don't have you
know you don't have a hierarchy of of human beings just based off of what they do
um that's kind of uh short-sighted and superficial if if
it's like oh this one this person can help me so or may help me so I'll be nice to them I'm just saying be nice
because it's the right thing to do just be pleasant to the other person on the end of the phone that you're you're
asking something please be salesman that you know they they go the extra mile there's been instances where you know we
we order something and they're like uh hey this just came in where you guys at
and it's like uh are you they ask first they ask if we're here at the the office and we're like no we're actually on a
job site you know in Lansing which is like 45 minutes away or Muskegon which is another half hour 45 minutes away and
they're just like you know what I gotta go over here I'll just bring it out to you right now nice yeah
we've been very fortunate to come acros have some really really nice I mean to the point where you know sometimes
they're like uh they have you know different spots and some of the big places are
down over in Detroit and they're like you know we have one of these in Detroit but you're not going to get it till next
week but I gotta drive down there anyway so I'm just gonna grab it for you and bring it right back up and it's yeah so
starting those relationships early on so that way you have that so when an opportunity
like that presents itself it's no question it's like you know I'm gonna do this for really my
friend right it's not even yeah in this relationship at that point it's like I know you guys need this so
this is what I'm gonna do for you yeah yeah and I'm no way like
proposing that you're fake or phony or whatever uh to anybody out there
um I'm just saying even if you don't like somebody you could be you know somewhat Pleasant I have vendors that
there's a a few I won't ever name names uh or or at least not right now
but I have a few that I tell you what man
they have an adversary they got somebody in me that will switch their stuff out
every every time I'm still nice to them though I'm still Pleasant I just don't
appreciate the way they do business so I I do things a little bit different and
um you know I'll switch their products out and we have the power to do it so
that doesn't mean that I have to be sour or or mean to them uh it just means that
is the reality is uh you have your good vendors and you got your bad ones the best thing you could do is is pick the
ones that match your company's uh way of doing business and uh try to align with
them and help them make more money by selling their stuff and then they're going to help you back you bring up a
good point on that and we've run into um you know I know that we're still fairly newly we still got our pacifier
and we're still wearing our diapers in the sales industry right um but
we have found consistency through certain manufacturers where it's not
consistent on others through the sales rep um and because of consistency
that is the product that we choose to push um and it's all falling back because you
know commercial a lot of what we do expect and they might they might not give you um the option for an alternate
however if I got to pull a teeth to get some pricing from you um and or from from whoever and it takes
and they're putting my back against the wall on a deadline and I just spent x amount of hours or days to get this
large proposal together and now because you haven't responded to a phone call text message or email
you know I'm gonna miss my opportunity to submit my my proposal or my bid chances are when somebody asks me what
manufacturer uh to they would recommend that's not going to be it so I I mean it's kind of a
the door swings both ways type deal right like you're a representative of not only yourself but your product
um as a rep and I know that everybody gets busy and I do
understand that but like you know I have a contingency or some kind of email saying hey I'm out of town or hey I'm
doing this or I feel like the ones that do have those emails are still the ones that answer when they are out of town
yeah that's a good point it is the ones who are responsible enough to let you know they're not going to be there that
actually show up anyway right sometimes I'll email the rep and then they'll text
me hey got your email I'll get to it when I can yeah and because because of that
scenario in that issue right there Daniel took our our Shelf our sample shelf and cleaned house said nope not this not
this not this and that's what you were kind of talking about earlier I can we can kind of visually show people exactly
what we want them to see and when you come in here you you can tell by our
Shelf who who answers and who doesn't yeah so any any vendors out there or
sales reps I mean one of the biggest complaints is not answering the phone or
getting back to to people in a timely manner our best that I I almost feel
like that's the Catalyst to a good relationship is when you first start dealing with the rep I have a particular
rep that I'm very fond of and I she just answers the phone I don't care if she's
on vacation she's picking her kids up from school like I've I've talked to her in so many
different scenarios because she just answers her phone when I call her and when I need pricing quickly I text her
hey need a quick price on this follow it up with a formal quote but I need it now
and I get it and I also sell well in excess of a million dollars a
year of her product that's a good relationship man that's uh your performing for her and she's
performing for you that's yeah that's what I'm saying like it
seems like if you're just Pleasant and on top of that the rep is doing a good job and you're gonna find the ones just
like you know you just kind of alluded to you're going to find the ones that that uh serve you the best and that kind
of uh fires off a good relationship so I don't think I've ever been upset or mean
with the rap because I do understand there's a lot of moving Parts um but I also well you just got to look
at how many other flooring companies are around here and are not only you know
bidding a bunch of other projects but are bidding the same project as you so it's like they're sometimes they
probably got you know a few hundred emails probably in a few hours I can
only imagine how much stuff that they have to deal with yeah yeah no reason to
be all right they signed up all I do is I I ask for the pricing and
then you know like a day later hey just trying to be at the top of the inbox so that way you see it first thing in the
morning you know it leads me to a question here Paul and this is this is for you right like um
in in correspondence with a rep when you're inquiring on pricing for a product
um and this is learning for me right like I'm gonna absorb this I'm going to learn [Music] um what is what is your approach uh whether
if it's a new rep or whether it's just your relationship is only via email and maybe a phone call every now and then
when you know what is your approach when uh inquiring or asking about pricing uh
we don't have B2B or national price list so a lot of what we do is very personalized
um and we we keep it we keep it personal the entire time if I have a price list we have plenty of price lists I never go
off Priceless when I bid yeah no we don't either I'm always going to call them uh or email them whatever has
proven to be the best uh mode of getting in touch with them but if I'm emailing
project name who's who the architect is quantity and
product um if I expect it I say here's the architect my spec
or if it's not um if it's if it's um you know specked by
the architect they're gonna know it they've met with the architect and had the conversation so there's no use in trying to say you spec something you
didn't um so I just tell them what the Arctic is and and they typically already have a
price put together if they if they specified it and in those it's kind of a
jump ball right um but with your really good reps you might see a little bit preferred
treatment um but I I always have those four key opponents what what's the project name
who's the architect did I expect it or not and then what is the obviously the product name with the quantity or some
approximation quantity okay and then um
I guess to add to that too do you add is it just a straight direct question for a
direct answer or are you are you cordial with them or do you add a little Personal Touch information uh
ask how their families do I mean you know that's what I'm asking I'm asking uh some of that as well yeah typically I
just try to Silo those two things so if I'm asking for pricing I keep it real short blunt no jokes no nothing here's
what I need please respond by you know and sometimes I'll put that in a subject
line pricing ASAP or respond by you know 12 22
right for kind of give them when I absolutely need the number so that they
know what the if I get it sooner which often I do great but if not they know
and then I can refer back and say listen I I made it clear I needed pricing by
this time on this day where's my pricing you know uh and then
even if that's in a friendship uh or a friendly sales rep
I kind of hold the personal stuff back uh to to just when I'm talking to him or or an email out of the blue saying hey
how's it going man hope family's good you know kind of try to Silo on myself I
don't know if that's right or wrong it's just the way I've I've done it it keeps your inbox a little bit cleaner too so you don't have to go back and say oh I
know we were talking about this yeah yeah well and it keeps them from feeling like they have to respond to something
when you just want pricing at that moment you know and feeling like they got to respond to your friendly portion
as well and Heck if you're just asking for pricing sometimes you can get it like like that if if uh if they're
prepared for it so good good call so this this this this
um podcast is uh gonna be shorter uh because vendor relationships are
pretty I I would say simple and maybe it's last because not because it's the
least important it's just to me it's the most simple because you're paying them money so there's a level of that
um but if you're just Pleasant and you respect other people that's
really what you guys said you're helping people get stuff off trucks you're nice and you care about you know getting to
know your counter people and that kind of stuff so they'll visit us here in town too and they'll be like let's go do
lunch and you know majority of the time they're like they're they're always trying to to put
it on the company card and I know that they also have like expenses that they have to meet but sometimes it's nice for
for you to kind of return that favor and let them know that the the relationship goes both ways it's not just one-sided
it's not gimme gimme gimme it's like we appreciate you guys too for everything that you do for us that's a good point
real good point plus if we don't have it in us to always accept like
I'm not I'm still not used to that right I don't think I'll ever get used to that like yeah if it feels a little odd we we
uh told our reps to if you want to take me
or you know our CEO or somebody like that seemingly the the leadership side
of our company out to out to lunch or something uh just bring lunch into the
office for everybody and come over to the office and and so that's 90 95 of
the time when we're uh eating with uh sales rep it's at my office where
installers can come in and grab some food and you know it like everybody can
participate in the uh especially if our sales rep wants to take you out and show
you appreciation for what you've done I say show everybody uh I'm not the only one selling stuff or you know working
hard to to uh build the relationship with that vendor or or you know push in their product or
whatever like share the wealth with the rest of my office and that's that's kind of how we've done it right and Kevin
asks uh if we're just dealing with distributors or reps from manufacturers or both and I think we're we're kind of
talking about both because we we have to deal with both because you know in order
to get some product you're just going right through the distributor and if you email the sales rep they'll they'll
point you in the direction hey I can sell you this but you have to go over here for this yeah and a lot of the times you know um
when the distributor doesn't have the answer we're always going to the manufacturer
anyways so it's like hey we don't really know but that's where the
the friendships come in from going to the the bigger events to where you know we have Kevin on here we have Danny
Sherman on here and it's like these these kind of people are you know I'll reach out to them
in order to get the answers that I need before sometimes I even reach out to the distributor because I know that it's a
streamlined process if that that's what I'm going to do yeah so
to answers Kevin's question it is both I mean if you're
it kind of breaks down to whether or not a product is uh distributed or if it's sold direct from the manufacturer to the
market which is most of your carpet uh is sold you know
through just sales reps um and then you know a lot of your tile and resilient products are sold through
Distributors so you kind of deal with both of them and they're it's a it's a
little unique because when you're dealing with a sales rep um like if I'm at a if I'm dealing with
a distributor and I'm not getting an answer from my sales rep I can call the manager or the distributor and be like
hey look I know you don't normally give pricing but you're gonna do that today because I need your help you know uh if
you could be so kind to help me out um but
when you're dealing with carpet meals uh you got to go to the RVP you know to
their boss if they're not answering to get the pricing um so it's a little more I'd call it a
little more delicate when you're dealing with the sales rep that your only your only
um recourse is really to go above them as opposed to at a distributorship you
can call the distributor and a lot of times they they can get pricing from you from the local manager or whatever
so all right guys well um as I said this this one's gonna be a
little shorter do you guys got any uh any nuggets of wisdom uh in closing here
[Music] just if you're just getting
you might not have intentions of owning your own or moving up but just in case that happens man just uh like Paul said
earlier just treat treat everyone with the same respect that you would treat uh the salesman that you would treat your
client because you don't know what chair anyone is going to be sitting in in 10
years so yeah rolling says on here just be kind oh yeah yeah just be kind I like
it and one of the kindest guys I know right there and the other thing that you already know everything right because
things change on a a constant basis in our industry or the science behind
things changes and you know I'll reach out to some of our prep manufacturers and be like hey this is what we got
going on uh what would you do and then they they typically come back with well
what were you thinking then I tell them and they're like well what do you even like you already know the system why are
you even asking it's like because I need to make sure that's nothing's changed on on anything before I proceed and you
know are given numbers and it's just that just opens it up for more dialogue
to get more personal with them as well Eduardo said we just got to read the labels
Daniel just uh just to add to that too is um whether it's a distributor rep or a
manufacturer rep don't forget about the tech reps that relationship also important and it could coincide with the
sales reps relationship as well because one feeds the other um
don't be afraid to call that 1-800 number that's listed on there if you have questions um because yeah you'll get to know some
of those Tech Guys yeah yeah I I called uh one of them one time we're doing some
I forget what we were doing a rubber stairwell or something and I they something just changed in the specs
I called to ask a question and I get on the phone and they're like yeah this is this person I'm like oh I know you
yeah well um I want to thank you guys again for
joining and uh contributing and always being a good partner in this deal and a staple I I
really appreciate you guys Merry Christmas to you guys uh not sure if Althea Merry Christmas to everybody all
the audience uh anybody watching on on YouTube later uh Merry Christmas to
everybody um I wanted to announce that the uh Ford
progress scholarship the Sim last week we ended with 16 applicants and I was
told that's really good so I want to thank everybody um that's that's awesome I don't I
didn't know what to expect uh next week's huddle uh or the following week
hold on I'm being told my uh supervisors telling me something
new here hold on simply January is that our next total is
January 10th then yeah
are we a non yeah but we're we're announcing January 10th okay okay correction
January 10th we're gonna do a live drawing of the um applicants so we're
basically going to crumble them up into the little paper balls and make it like a lottery and we're just gonna pick the
pick the winner live and um a lot of times these things have
criteria we're not posting any criteria it's just whoever gets picked out of the
out of the till so the bingo card style yeah yeah
[Music] it's definitely worth it yeah so this is gonna
get some great knowledge yeah we're very excited about that we're gonna uh look
at offering this Ford scholarship uh or forward progress scholarship at least once a year uh we may do it more often
if we get really good um you know if we if we got 16 this time
the next time I I want to see 20 or 25 uh so if we see those numbers going up
we're going to continue to sponsor that um and uh you know try to do our best in
giving back and and increasing the knowledge and um again I want to thank
everybody who who uh applied and I wish you the best Merry Christmas and we will
talk to you guys next week and uh we'll be pulling on the on the 10th to see who
our winner is awesome all right guys well again Merry
Christmas and have a happy New Year as well and we will chat with you guys next Tuesday until next time
bye guys
The Huddle - Episode 28 - Relationships Pt. 3 - Homeowners
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose meet up with some special guests (Charlotte Mendez from Craftsman Hardwood Flooring out of San Angelo, TX and John Steier from Steier Flooring out of Algona, IA) to discuss making and maintaining lasting relationships with homeowners while doing residential work.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome to the Huddle we're coming to
you every single Tuesday to discuss maintaining poor progress in your flooring career we really designed the
podcast around that particular thing maintaining forward progress in your flooring career so we go over topics
and best practices and um you know opportunities to improve
your business every week uh with me as always is Mr Daniel and
Jose Gonzalez with preferred flooring out of Michigan I'm Paul Stewart with go Carrera and
Stewart and Associates this week is part three of uh three of a
four-part series based on relationships uh or centered on relationships
we talked about General Contractors last last week where uh is the bulk of our
business and and most of what I've done over my career this week we're talking about homeowners and that is your guys's
uh I think you know Silo better than myself uh we
do maybe five homes a year generally it's a uh general contractor's house or one of
our Architects house or something like that um we don't really have a showroom or
anything like that uh from a residential standpoint that being said I've done some uh quite
a bit over my career but dealing with homeowners uh typically brings some
particular pitfalls and and particular uh advantages as well and some some
opportunities so I thought we'd start off with um
me just telling a brief history because we don't do that much so mine's going to
be real brief and then I'll turn it over to you guys and we can have a good discussion based on how to build
relationships with these uh with these homeowners so you can get some repeat business and uh have a great reputation
so most of my career has been in commercial flooring that's how it started uh when I started subcontracting
around uh 98 um we you know I obviously did some
residential uh work I had both gamuts of residential work
back then and it wasn't really dealing directly with homeowners much I was
working with a really high-end uh and interior designer and so I do a lot of
wool carpet and things like that and um I really got my butt handed to me a few
times on that I hadn't been properly trained on how to install wool and uh
well we'll just leave it at that uh and then I had a guy that owned
I guess you call him slumlord is the the best uh slang word to use
he owns a very large portion of a area that used to be military housing and
um really kind of low end lower end homes and uh back in the old L.D
Brinkman days I would buy carpet for beldi Brinkman and uh sell the whole package to him for nine dollars a yard
and stalled so um I did everything from installing uh 12 a yard for just installation on
the wall to uh nine dollars a yard furnish carpet pad and installation
we did a brief time in 2000 and 2002 we had uh the first to my knowledge
the first real mobile showroom and at the time we had taken a eight foot box
truck and turned it into a showroom um and started doing residential
we did that for about a year figured out real quick that it just was not real
um it didn't fit our wheelhouse of of business and so we got out of it but a
few things I learned in that time homeowners value their vacation almost
as much as their money and if you mess up their vacation to replace their carpet and you do not get
their carpet done in time or something goes wrong you are in trouble
or at least that was my experience uh they my I hate to say this and I'd love
to see if you guys have a counter or if I'm just off on this with my limited amount of experience
but I found them often working to try to get something for free
or we scratched something that they wanted replaced
and every time we got those those items
uh brought up it was a it was just not a fun discussion
um so we were in it for a year we did a bunch of work in that year but
um I I found it was it was just complicated to operate from a commercial mindset
and do Residential so that's kind of my limited uh experience
um what is your guys's I I know you guys have done residential still do
Residential um probably much better uh suited to
talk about this topic and how you guys have succeeded in building those relationships with those uh those
homeowners so kick it off whoever wants to jump I'll
go ahead and get started and and I just want to I just want to clarify yes uh we do commercial and residential but we are
still primarily a commercial outfit um the the residential that that we have
obtained is through our connections through the general trades
um or through uh the the support that we've given to our school district and you know it's kind of returning the
favor and it's kind of unfortunately over the battle uh from from helping out little
leagues and school teams and all that so professional won't be our first choice
it wouldn't be um because you there there is a lot to it that we still need to work on all
right like you said the the small little things because me as a consumer I know
that I'm very picky right and I expect the I expect uh the homeowners to be as
well and it's just one of those things where if
you grew up in the commercial industry and you step into someone's home totally different here you have to prepare
yourself uh for change um
can I oh looks like we dropped him you're on me there Daniel it looks like
we dropped Jose tell him to shut his video here he goes
back on clarify maybe maybe Daniel real quick did did you guys start in
commercial or do you start in residential or did you just kind of out of the gate do both they all said turn
her video off to say bandwidth
we started we started in commercial right so that
that's where everything started from and then like like you you see something and uh it
it's like in the the book traction they call it shiny things hey residential just
fall under my left let me see what what happens and you you start going over
there and then dealing with the homeowners and stuff and personally I don't like residential like
when something like that comes across I'm just like hey you guys can handle this I can
handle something else because I don't have that like kind of like we
were talking about with Crystal like she has that um the patience and stuff to deal with
people and in the commercial world we were talking like I'm more let me get
in there boom boom boom things aren't going to go my way that's how it's going to be with homeowners it's a little more
uh where can I be today well how can we work with you because this that that's
that's their home man that's something that they're that's their livelihood right it's not something that they're
just gonna go and work eight hours and then skate it's where they're gonna come home to try and be themselves after work
and that's a little bit more uh more tricky to to work around than it is so when you're in a commercial world and
you're just you know balls to the wall trying to get everything done that you can it's more give and take than it than
the commercial world so we we started in the commercial we are doing residential
and it's not something that we advertise um
so you guys are a lot like us then just maybe still doing more uh it it sounded
like you guys did a fair amount and maybe um
but it appears you're about like us like you really started in commercial did
commercial and then the residential that comes your way you do but you don't get
out advertised you know right and and we tell people straight up you know when they come to us it's
if if we're really residentially if we're being put against other people
into like a bid situation like if they're getting numerous votes we'll we'll pretty much lose every time
um the guys that and and it sucks for these guys because we we know them and we talk to them on a
regular basis but the the rates that some of these stores are going in at is like the only way for them to make money
for the most part is to cut Corners wherever they can and bang out as much
yardage in a day as they can and we try and sell our jobs so it's not
like that so you know when someone goes in there it's we're using seam sealer we're we're
using the right kind of tape or power stretching we're not just kicking stuff in and that's um
it's hard to explain to people sometimes the difference because
all they look at is the bottom dollar and they don't look at
what they're getting with that that money it's low is best because I'm trying to
spend the least amount of money and it isn't until you know they get burned and a lot of a lot of the stuff
that we actually get residentially is from people that have been burned by
some of the bigger guys in town and they're like we don't want to deal with them anymore
can you help me yeah can you guys hear me at all oh yeah
we can hear you now okay I just wanted to make sure that yeah Daniel's right but about all that
and and I do a lot of the residential bids or estimates I would say because we've not really been and he's
absolutely right we don't uh aggressively go after them but um the ones we do get were sought after
um because of the issues and we're problem solvers and I don't know how much of that conversation you guys got
before I like my screen just flashed went blank
it's funny Daniel's in the Bahamas and is just looking awesome sounding great
you're right here in the U.S and we're having Tech difficulties there yeah I
I'm sitting out in front of a Home Depot because it was the closest parking lot to pull over that's probably what it is they're
stealing they're stealing my signal so how many how many residential
projects will you guys do in a year uh we've had quite a few this year a lot
it's actually that that segment of our stuff is growing and
um we went from like two percent uh a few years ago to we're probably
probably pushing around you know eight to ten percent right now I'm I'm guessing I haven't ran the numbers but
that's that's fairly accurate I feel like that's fairly accurate the 10 mark
we have some emotions going on here huh yeah
Charlotte welcome to the call thank you
so um you guys do a fair amount of residential go ahead and like let's get
into the relationship piece of that what's the what's the uh what's the trick
what's your guys's uh approach to dealing with homeowners and making them raging fans
of your your company or your your installation business or whatever
um you guys may be a part of
Jose Daniel anyone well so pretty much do is residential so
um we're Craftsman hardwood flooring in San Angelo Texas and that's that's our
main clientele is homeowners um we pretty much you know are a Craftsman
store we you know we're about our services our customer service our craftsmanship and people kind of just
know us and they'll gravitate towards us versus you know going to a we basically
specialize in in hardwood um some laminate but mostly just hardwood we do custom design floors you
know herringbone patterns and stuff like that and so you know they're it's basically we're
just marketing ourselves as you know the people to come to if you need you know floor restoration or if you need
hardwood flooring I mean and they pretty much we've had we just got a reputation
around in the area yeah and so you're a niche uh flooring company so you're you kind of stay in
that one vertical or somewhere close to it with Hardwoods and and custom work
um is there other competitors in your area that do at least have the same
approaches you guys no there's no one in the area that just specializes in what we do I mean people
know that we are the go-to in this area there is other hardwood installers I
mean as far as we know there's maybe one other one and he only does solid hardwood on restorations in the old
homes um the other companies you know we actually have we used to work for a lot
of the other um companies in the area before we opened up our retail end of the store so
they can't call us anymore so I really have no idea who they're using but um
you know we end up you know going back and like Jose was saying going back and
fixing you know other people's problems you know so um my son Matt Garcia is the
owner of the store and he's just like super meticulous about not making mistakes we rarely have any job that you
know has messed up and to go back with and like I said we're going back in the area and fixing other people's mistakes
so what what kind of um challenges and uh
maybe some pitfalls that we can share with the audience on
dealing with homeowners in general and how do you build those relationships you're you're unique because you you
have a bit of Advantage being kind of the only one doing that in your area but you still
have to satisfy the client and take care of the client and do the right things so John does a lot he does everything so
how do you how do you do that and maintain that that loyalty from the
homeowner well the first of all we we try you know we're we're geared to I'm
the sales person in the store so you know they call on the first uh person that they touch base with here and so
you know we talk about we we I don't get into like what they want or what you know whatever we talk about their
projects uh you know what is their lifestyle their family dogs you know and
you know honestly we want to get them the right product if we're not the right product we'll we'll send them to
somebody that will be the right product and so that's how they we get their
words in fact this morning I had a client that actually ended up not using
us because of her budget and you know we understood that and she's bringing another client in that does have the
budget uh to come in and look at you know the floors that we provide here and
so that's the ultimate of loyalty she wasn't even our customer but she loved
the way that we went out there Matt had done a custom design for her you know when it was all done and said she just
didn't have it in her budget and sometimes that's just the way it is but the fact that she's bringing another
client back to us speaks huge so it's basically we're not trying to you know
make money off of them we really want to provide a service we want to solve their problems we want to you know be able to
uh give them what they they want we want them to come back in 10 years and say I'm so glad that you talked me into this
flooring you know because if I would have went with you know per se vinyl plank it would have been replaced by now
but this floor still looks beautiful 10 years later and that's exactly what you told us and we also guarantee
um Matt will go back and look we we do the lifetime of the floor guarantee
um which means you know obviously if there's you know flooding or something like that that's not included but you
know if it for some reason something pops somewhere I mean Matt will just go check it out it's no big deal it's like
that's just part of our customer service is to be there we answer the phones you
know we we we make them feel like whatever their problem is is important
so last week when we were talking about General Contractors and and such we
discussed actually showing them you care it sounds like that's what you do with the homeowners you you prove you
actually care uh at the end of the day what they end up with and that their long-term happiness with their floor is
uh utmost important to you we follow up with them too I've developed a basket
that I give them that has cleaning instructions um for how to take care of their hardwood floors what products to use
what products not to use which is huge um you know we we just we provide that
follow-up service you know and they really appreciate it and you know we're we're providing a quality service for
them and that we truly you know maths the same way as Mia you know I can still ask to an Eskimo but only if I believe
in the eyes yeah yeah thank you Facebook go ahead Daniel
it's about customer expectation uh be precise and detailed on what the
customers to expect and what they expect from you always under promise and over deliver
it's kind of you know where you're getting that that's everything afterwards right because not a lot of
other stores are gonna provide that that kind of information or the actual cleaning materials and stuff like that
so that's awesome that you guys do that yeah John welcome to the call yeah yeah thank
you thank you honored to be here uh and I caught the the first part and I I
would I am mainly a residential installer I I kind of go with the slogan
of a man and a van and uh I sell it all I install it all but um uh
they you guys we were talking about you know uh I get when your business gets to a certain size it's hard to be
competitive in a residential market and me even being a smaller size it's it's
at times difficult but I think the um the challenges you know that I look
at that I see in my area might be you know different from other areas not in
your area John so rural uh blue collar uh working class
and that's that's uh what I have yeah this is your this is your time for a plug brother yeah
so I got uh Steyr four in here in Algona Iowa it is uh I mean truly we are in the
middle of nowhere you know I I I was just down in Wichita Kansas and I thought you know some of those areas
just definitely reminded me on the drive there of Algona you know but uh definitely uh uh um uh
um Midwest town I mean uh real real uh uh just kind of a home body type people
um and that's that is my that's my customer base and I'm aware of it I know that
that's that's the sir the the clientele that I want to serve and and so
um one comment that I wanted to make is because I heard this you know uh while I
was actually down in Wichita and it just comes to you know pricing you know you get you get in that residential Market
you know and everybody's on a race to the bottom and I I truly don't believe
that's true um and I think you can see that by with just how people live their lives now you
know you can pull into somebody's driveway and and I'm on you know before I even go into that house I'm looking
around like okay they've got a well-kept yard their vehicles are clean their garage is organized these people like
nice stuff so to me that's almost kind of easy to sell at that point because you can you
can sell value these people understand it um where vice versa
um you know I get maybe if you're not in a neighborhood like that that might be that might be it might be a challenge
moving forward I think some of it may be your average homeowner is not when we're
taking residential and Commercial and like comparing them a bit uh your
average homeowner just it's harder to sell value when they don't understand the difference between One Carpet and
the next or one LBT in the next and they look at you maybe not in your area but in a lot of areas they look at the
salesman and it's just that a Salesman whereas when you're when you're talking to an architect or general contractor
about you know what floor is appropriate for their project you're talking they
understand some of the terminology whether you're you're talking about different types of buying final for a
hospital or different types of carpet and why to use that type of carpet in in
this area versus another you you got a little bit of understanding there I think you just have to educate the
homeowner more is that what you're saying yes yeah uh people will and that's the
uniqueness I think of what I have is as I'm the guy coming back to put it in so they're already reaching out to you know
hey we need to know we we want carpet but should we put carpet in our hallway because we're unsure of you know we got
a very busy household and I I think when you only in the bathroom
shag up the walls um you know I I am I'm very comfortable
in the residential Market I I am and uh and I think it's it's a lot um Daniel made the comment that it is
you know when you work I I'll kind of get a little sidetracked but I'll come right back two commercial
jobs I sold this year are 50 or uh 10 of of my total gross sales only two you
know so that just goes to show you that it don't take a whole lot of work on that side to keep a guy like me busy so I get that so when you're doing like
residential and and I've got let's say four jobs that week I got four personalities I
gotta juggle them I gotta get in the right mindset that okay yes yes so I it does take a unique
individual to do that and it even as an installer where you might not be on the part of the
sales part of it you're just showing up to do the install you've got to have that mindset that today you might be in
Mrs Jones home and and she's very quiet and keeps to herself and then tomorrow you're in Tom's home and he's a lonely
guy that just wants to chit chat your ear off and how do you balance that and and uh continue working and and be known
as you know this is the go-to guy because you can you can not only are you a Craftsman with your hand and your
skills but you have some you know I'm gonna use the word like maybe some Verbal Judo to some degree
you can take on those situations and what's your and I know John I know John
too like on a personal level too like John is very is very uh good at
articulating himself and he is very versatile in any in any atmosphere so that helps him out too and maybe maybe
that's one of those things where it definitely helps to to be able to articulate yourself and be
like well Bruce Lee we don't like water my friend yeah a quick
observation John here is you got to be aware it sounds like to me
you're super aware of who you're dealing with um being aware of their home when you
pull up or the type of person and being able to um like you said you know kind of uh
Verbal Judo uh or probably even personality Judo in a way
um with all the different uh personalities and make people feel important I do know
from a human perspective like we all want to feel important we all want to feel like somebody's noticing us and and
um uh you know feel like we're valued so when you're able to do that
obviously that resides well with them I got a follow-up question I know Daniel wants to say something but just real
quick what are the some of the key pitfalls so we can add some value to people watching
what are some key pitfalls that that somebody maybe whether they're new uh to
the to the flooring industry all together or maybe someone like myself who does commercial
mostly what are what are some of the pitfalls with owners with homeowners and
and kind of how do you maneuver around those or turn them into a superpower what do you do there and and what are
those pitfalls uh for me it it's kind of like what Charlotte said
um I live in a very rural area we all we're gonna see I'm gonna see my clients at a football game I'm gonna see my
clients at the grocery store and it's providing that service that might not even be a flooring service
I might be at their house in their air conditioner and and they're I mean this is a true story their air conditioner
ain't working and they can't who do I call to fix my air conditioner and it might just be we're all contractors we
all got each other's phone numbers I'm going to call it I you know I'm gonna sound like I'm real important oh yeah this is John steyer steyer flooring over
at Mrs Jones you know her air conditioner ain't working can you what do you guys get down there and so I
might not win that um that that job because uh you know it
might be one that's just a budgeted job and and I personally me I'm not the guy for those jobs like I'm not the race to
the bottom sharp in the pencil kind of guy it is what it is um but I think you know it go you know
one thing going back to it is learning communication and soft skills and I think that is such a tough
thing you I think people either just have the ability to learn it or or to conquer it or they just don't have it
um it's that is a tough skill and I think as a residential installer it's it's almost like that is the one thing
that's going to set you above anybody because they're going to remember how nice you were or how pleasant you were
um because they don't understand the whole technical point of installation but they understand human nature and how you treated them
good Insight I think that um just a side note is it's I don't want
people to be discouraged here um I I would tell you that John the way you
deal with people is the exact opposite of how I dealt with people which is probably a good Testament to why I
didn't do so well in the residential
pretty young at the time but I was there to provide a service
figured if I did good install I didn't have to be the most personable person I
didn't know anything about human nature or humans as a you know like human needs
or or understanding people's uh problems I just was there it was a good installer
I'm here to install your floor uh if you want to chit chat I might give you five or ten minutes at
the end of the job but that's about all I got for you you you've really it
sounds like you and Charlotte and Charlotte's son I've I'm Sorry Charlie I forgot his name off the top my head here
but Garcia Matt yeah so you guys tend to have that
um that skill almost already built in I had to learn it it took me a long time to
learn um but guys I'm I'm telling you now you can learn the skill it really is based
on human emotion and human Tendencies and the human needs you can investigate
and research those three topics and really dive in and you can get a lot
better at it if you are like the old Paul it was kind of a jerk and and didn't you know I wanted to do good work
but I wasn't the most personable person so um yeah anyway just wanted to point out
that there you can get better but you you sound like you got it in spades for sure yeah and I was gonna ask you
know because you said that you don't really do the race to the bottom thing but I
didn't know how your competition was you had a lot of people that are around like that because we get some people that
come to us and it's like this is the material I want and we are sometimes we're like you should not use this
material but they're the salesman that they talked to before like sold them on it so well that they do not
want to change their mind and how do you how do you go about something like that
I truthfully don't ever believe in changing somebody's mind that's just that that's led to me in the past with
that buyer's remorse and I hate that where they they just you you they've come in they've wanted something I can't
get it I don't want to get it or for whatever reason it just I've got them to switch
um I I think that's the one unique thing about small communities we are not saturated in my area with flooring
installers flooring stores um I mean it's slim there's more if I
wanted to get a divorce today I could find more lawyers to help me than if I needed my carpet bedroom installed I
mean truthfully and and that is the one benefit we have around here is
yes I know I know I'm higher priced than a lot of places I I don't have I mean
truthfully I just don't have a way of knowing how much shopping around goes in I I do know that when I get asked to bid
projects like we need a bid we're accepting bids I I am up front with them right away
that you know for me to bid this I just want you to know that I'm not gonna there's there's I'm gonna miss something
if I'm the lowest guy on this bid like there's something I'm leaving out so if they know that going into it it kind of
just saves me that that time there too of not having to deal with that but I I'm very well aware that like like in
your case Daniel with what you guys do you know I mean everybody's trying to get in there and you know it's it can be
a matter of just a couple bucks on a huge project that you know sets you apart from the next one and it might not
be you know you guys might all be good you know all good installers all great salesmen
um I I just don't deal with that a whole lot in my area so that's my one plug for living in rural America right there
that's actually pretty good man and so you have an opportunity to I don't want to say control the market but you're
you're essentially setting a standard in your area and that's awesome um well still I mean I mean just
guessing there there are still other options right correct so back to the
pitfall because I really want to make sure that we we focus on the relationship of that you get with it do
you get a lot of uh return customers yes so that that's what's gonna that's
what's Gonna Keep Me in business so how did you what what are the what are the things that were tough to deal with with
a homeowner but you were able to overcome them and maybe even turn them into a a positive like what what for
somebody just watching like they're they're gonna go into their first homeowner's appointment
the homeowner wants whatever it is you can make the story up but they're going in and gonna show some some flooring or
someone comes into the showroom it's their first experience what should they expect from homeowners that is that you
found unique to to kind of your business and then how do you overcome that
um as as great as Google and the internet is they're still for my this is for me
they're still coming in wanting to know what to do and
I can send it it to me it's tough to to you know get the points you know
they they'll go online they'll read I want vinyl plank flooring I need vinyl
plank flooring and you think oh yeah I got a great sale here here we go and you go to the house
and it turns out that they've got four layers of something over here carpet in
here that's that is a big floor prep is a big obstacle in in my opinion for me for
residential remodel that is the and I'm still working on it because my floor prep can be way more than
anything else on that estimate and so when my customers in the shop they come in here and I'm pretty good with my
numbers like I know what my square foot price of carpet's gonna cost I'd roughly know what my square foot of Labor is going to be but I never know what floor
prep is going to be and so I quote them x amount of dollars square foot and I go look at their project and they've got
ceramic tile laid on top of sheet vinyl with two layers a quarter inch subfloor
and the doors are barely open right now and it's hard to at that point articulate the amount of cost it's going
to take for them to put this new floor in and you know address the door at the height
issues address issues with appliances address uh base moldings
and so I would say as a as a a new installer you want to you want to get
make yourself very aware of everything else that goes into play when purchasing
you know a floor like that you know it's not because you can't go in I mean it's going to be really hard for you to say
yeah we're going to come in and just demo out your house when you're living in here but you got to come in with a bunch of jackhammers and shop vacs and
I mean that that's something that really needs to be addressed right up right uphand so so based on what he's saying
right now and what I've seen on some of the like retailer groups it's like
completely different because he's like make sure you have all this stuff in line you go on those retailer groups
where it's just store owners and they sub out um you know most are all of their work and they they always say sell
the job worry about the details later so so don't worry about all that stuff later and then it it gets to a point to
where it's like well who's gonna end up worrying about it probably the installer that walks in the door and then we look
like the a-holes because it's like oh there's a bunch of stuff here that we're
gonna have to address yeah I've always thought the the retail sales people
have got to have uh because they get complained about a lot I I don't have
enough history myself to to say good you
know speak good or uh negative comments about it all I can tell you is that on
the Facebook groups are different you know installer conventions it's like
the the salesman at a retail store is like the most hated person
yeah information I think that they don't add
in there and well they need to be up front here's what I've heard from both Charlotte and John
educational selling educate your client on what to expect educate and that bodes
right with what um the the uh one of the audience members
brought up there Daniel right like Edge setting the expectation yep yeah so like
educating your your client on what to expect on a floor prep situation or what
to expect long term from a flooring that they want um and then managing that expectations
so that when they get that thing that injury result that they knew they get
what they expected that's what I hear the the most I don't I I think that's the problem with
regular salesmen like you're gonna go and install it John so you're going to sell it the way that you're gonna install it a salesman's trying to get a
cell is is almost fearful of the flooring the
the real issue like you said that could be even more expensive than the fluorine itself is
the demo and the floor prep uh yes and and it's
that's a gross Miss I I think that's how do I put this
that's a that's a terrible way to get a cell because then the person following you like Daniel alluded to there when
you're going in afterwards that or going in to install the flooring the the installer that's there's at a
disadvantage from day one he's got to tell him oh you got you know
75 bags of self-leveling that's needed in this facility or in your home well
how much is that going to cost oh installed it's probably around 80 bucks a bag yeah yeah like I mean we run into
situations like that too and because we were the installation outfit who did the
sale it was a little bit easier to to explain right but like if uh I'll put an
example we had a gentleman doing some curb it on another uh one of our installs on a residential job and he
came back and said hey there's some issues with this floor like and dude like they they did chicken wire and they
packed Concrete in there over what substrate and you know and it was like
all right dude I know that you're not going to deal with that I'll just come in I'll deal with it and you've got to let the client
know and it's it's hard to prep anybody for that um but like you said if you're not prepping if
the sales person isn't prepping for uh circumstances that could happen as a
variable the installer is looking bad because now the installer is looking like their hand
is out wanting more money um and they still they're just a middleman anywhere they're putting the
sales person to the point to be middleman where they have to mediate and who's gonna lose like I've been on
the losing side of that as the installer for another company on a residential job or even directly to a homeowner
um those are hard to maintain relationships with because you do look like the bad guy and yeah
feels like a bait and switch doesn't it if I'm at home I'm told that it's going
to cost me you know four thousand dollars for this new lvt in my home and then the installer says I need to spend
another three thousand dollars to to actually do it well it feels like a bait and switch
to a homeowner I would I would guess and and that's where we talked about last week too when we were talking about like
moisture mitigation and stuff it's like I don't want to do this like it in a
perfect world I'd just go in there lay the floor and be done that's what I want to do but if we don't you're not going
to be happy yeah I I think it's all it sounds like
to me one of the most important parts to all this and you guys can correct me if I'm
wrong here but it's it's just educating the homeowner on uh not the processes and the products
themselves there you go and making sure that they're well informed about what they're buying and what they should
expect at the end I mean yeah that sounds like most problems they're
they're whole I mean residential you know like you get into it and the one thing that I always I mean it doesn't
matter whatever job you're working on that day that's the most important job you're going to do that's just how I've
always looked at it and and managing that expectation and uh
you know I and Jose is going to comment on this I know and I'm not one I don't like throwing people under the bus
um because I you know so so like with with sales I get it but you're only is
you only know what you know and so if if you know we we talk about installers not
being trained well well how what does that say about our our sales staff too if they're not trained you know if if if
we're aware of moisture issues height issues there's this whole list of stuff
that's in in our description of our flooring our sales staff needs to be aware of it and I don't think it needs
to be overly complicated discussing this with the homeowner um
um of the of these of these issues that can arise I mean I don't think you need to start throwing money around right
away I think it's just more of an issue of well I'm going to pull your vent out over here it looks as though you've got
three layers of floor I'm gonna put together some options for you best best
procedure to move forward I'll let you decide and go from there because once that
installer shows up the last thing he wants to do is is make a phone call and have to stop what he's doing because
this wasn't addressed when you think about it when they send the installers out there as soon as he stops he's not
making any more money 100 well I'm the homeowner like I said at the very
beginning you know they really value their time off I mean one of the biggest butt Tunes I've ever got in my entire
life was from a lady who took off vacation to to redo the carpet in her
house and the carpet came in a day late I I owed her for her time off and I owed
her for her to reimburse her for a vacation time I mean it was so like
if if that's true and that might just be my experience but they lost their they could be losing
those days right there the homeowner themselves are I mean really both the
installer and the homeowner then are the victims of the scenario I mean that's why we started saying all right we'll
call you when the carpet gets here to schedule only about 18 years
[Laughter] do you guys no I got a question for you
guys because you know me being where I'm at we get keys dropped off all the time we get garage door codes we get told to
help ourselves the fridge I mean is that a common thing in your area neck of the woods or is it like like what you said
there I've always wondered about that Paul is that a you know we expect you know part of our installation
um procedure is the homeowner will be at the house while our crew is working yeah I mean I think there's some that
will you know in my area and I I honestly I can't speak I can tell
you that all my clients like give us keys and stuff but it's a little bit different because they're a general contractor we do all their you know work
for or whatever um I think what what about you guys Daniel and uh most of the time they that
the ones that I've worked on they actually like to be there the entire time um there's sometimes when I'm there and
it isn't until you know they get that face to face they they talk to you for a little bit and then like yeah all right
you guys good all right yeah yeah so most of the residential sales go through me
um and when through the whole process I reassure them that you know they've had
a lot of people have had bad experiences and that's why what led them to us in the first place and I reassured them over and over again
that this is our profession this is what we do for a living um there's nothing that I am going to do that is
going to not have their best interest on on the top of my list
um and sometimes dangerous right sometimes you start out with the homeowner there and then once they get a
little acclimated to you they're like oh you got this all right I'm leaving um and we'd rather have it empty because
we just like to work right but it's not always the case sometimes you get those clients that like to learn a little bit
and ask you a lot of questions those are that's okay too um and then John just to go back about
your food and all that stuff like going in the fridge we've been put in situations like that and
some people crew-wise some people like to take advantage of that yeah some people will prefer not to do that
um so we've we've been the victim of both sides of that where we felt I'm always I'm always leery with that stuff
man I don't wanna we've done it you ate all my Candy like yeah like two
people had some candy you told us help yourself the biggest thing is uh like using the
restroom at the residents like that's going to be a Make It or Break It on the next phone call for sure
I had a client come in so I had to Dart out for a second but we most of our
clients I mean we get they're not there and sometimes they're there because they have to be there and they just stay in another room I don't
know if it's our area and just the high trust Factor but we also focus in on leaving our areas clean and no hand
prints on the walls and just making sure we had one of our guys that choose and you know it's like whatever but don't
live your spittoon Cup on the job and he he did that like one time and that was a
little annoying but we try to make them very conscientious of being very respectful say hey this is like your
home I mean what would you want somebody in your home doing right if you had someone working in there yeah
Daniel looks like he's got somebody churning butter in the background I know I think that's Jose you made a great
point there about the restroom and so you know I'm gonna back up you guys remember when covet hit that was a big
deal for us like I you know we went into people's homes we were clean we cleaned their bathrooms just so it would smell
clean because every you know the whole germ thing that's got to become like a practice that's that's kind of become a
practice for us now it's just a great we've always got those little bleach wipes I don't care I'll put a rubber
glove on clean up everybody's you know mess even if it's your kids I don't care I think that's one thing I tell you what
you want to make somebody's day have them come home to a clean bathroom and uh they they know you did it but we
always do ask if you know we can use a hall bath or uh um a basement bathroom because we're at
your house working we don't want to leave to go to the gas station and we're going to be there eight hours you gotta you know expect us to you know we're
gonna use the bathroom yeah I I'd say commercially the bathroom thing actually resides pretty well uh a
lot of times we're using porta johns and such but once say on a hotel job they
get the toilets in the upper floors and people start using the bathrooms and they start looking like
looking like contractors are using the bathroom yeah we can do anybody that
watches this on YouTube or is watching now we can do better guys
at least all right well um
what uh you know we've talked about a lot of uh the
I would almost call them sales methods but they're they're really relationship
building tools do you guys do any like uh gift cards at the end or like do you
listen to your client um want our business developer she's for
our company she's really good in the commercial World listening to our client and all of a sudden she'll
show hand she'll like homemade chili and take it to our contractor's office or
they love chili she's done that several times uh if they like a certain type of
movie she'll just go buy the movie tickets uh if and these are multi
multi-million dollar companies that we that we do business with but it builds a
relationship like crazy uh do you guys do any of those uh things like someone
loves dogs and you're just out of the blue send them a chewy pack with a whatever is any of that a part of your
relationship building uh methods or or is that too I'm going to be
honestly you know like I don't think about some of that stuff to be honest with you and
a common thing to do um I mean we try to uh do nice things
when we can but I think we've talked about it too uh at a previous conversation about
making the uncomfortable or making the GC uncomfortable or a homeowner uncomfortable like
I don't want to feel like I'm bribing someone to maintain a relationship you can bribe a homeowner all you want
there's nothing nothing illegal driving them with gifts it's a little bit different but you know if you take uh
and and Lori is is our business developer's name she she's really cognizant of taking the whole office for
example the chili not just some individual guy that she's trying to build a relationship with that's awesome
but um yeah you can do that with homeowners all you want and not break any rules
um a lot of times we're working with Builders and their homes are being built
and I've dealt with people for a year and a half they walk in there I'm all hey Katrina how are you doing you know
and you you build that relationship and there was another one she she liked wine
I I actually moved here from California from Wine Country and and I told you we
give them a gift basket but it's a basket sometimes there's coffee cups in there or something that's just for them
and I got one of my favorite bottles of wine and put it in there so you it is super cool when you can meet them like
you get them a personalized gift there was another one that she came in and she had lost her husband and she's moving
here and I put in a little practice to encourage her and so and I'm super good
at customer service you know and you know just to be able to do that you know most of the time it's just a nice basket
with something in there but sometimes if especially if I've developed the relationship for over a year with a client and helping them to you know
design their home and pick out flooring definitely you know I find something cool in there and like Hey kid you know
I push it up to upper management you know can I go ahead and just do a little extra for this person and and they're
they're putting reviews on our on our site yeah absolutely well that's that
that's awesome I mean you know those types of things one of the things we did uh commercially is uh we have a client
that owns a lot of different restaurants and they're not franchises he like builds his own brand up and he'll have
three or four of them and one of them uh we put it we put their logo in their
walk-off carpet in their main entrance form and it was a it was
it was a um big deal to them like they didn't think about it Laurie had thought about
it suggested I was like if you don't think they'll mind let's do it that would be cool and you know now they walk
in and it's a knife a nice vestibule walk-off carpet like normal except it's
got their logo water jetted into it so just a little that that was an expensive
bill but we've done a lot of business with them uh but that you like you just said Charlotte they don't it doesn't
have to be huge grandiose just showing that you're listening and notice that
they like something it seems to go a long way especially in a town like ours
I mean there was another client that we've been working with and just she's been struggling trying to find the right product she goes to the YMCA gym where I
go to you know I can't I know her kids and you know I know their names actually we have a system when somebody comes in
here and they bring in their kids I write in what their kids names are and then when they come back I'm like you
know how's little Joey doing you know or whatever or just talk because you know I've got kids and so you know you dress
the kids you dress the mom you dress the dad and you just you know they're not
just a customer they're a person that's walking in here that needs something and you want to make sure they're spending a
lot of money and you want to make sure you you know that you have that kind of relationship and Jose it's not bribing
it's just being um attentive to the customer and still and it's honest like I honestly just
really care about my customers and and like I said you know some come in and they've got different circumstances
going on in their life and for some reason I become counselors sometimes and you know but I listen you know it's like
you sit there you just pay attention to their struggles and going and I personally just renovated my home and
had to have my floors redone by our company and so I've really got another I
I understand what they're going through it's not fun you know you're displaced and all that we are super
I'm surprised anybody ever replaces their floors I mean you got to get it you know what I mean like you got to get
all the way out of your job it's extensive right you can repaint by
moving stuff Center throw some plastic over it and throw up some paint even and a high quality painter won't
get a thing on nothing and it's like move back and that you got to move out
if you are stuff and then and then you know it's expensive on top of that paint
a room for 200 bucks or do the floor for you know 1200. so I yeah I'm always
amazed like it's a it's a big commitment I think for uh people when they go to replace their
flooring yeah it really is and you know I lived in one room and then when they
fart guys did it I had one guy one day a week a floor that should have took three weeks took me five months and I was
literally moving while they were doing the sanding I was waiting for the last minute to move out so when our clients
come in here and they start talking about that it's just a matter of relating my own experiences I've also
had a family and we lived in one room with a hot plate why the why they were doing and obviously we're from multiple
generations of Floor Covering so we were doing it but I know what it feels like and I think just to relate to them and
and really and let let them know that you understand where they're at and we're trying to do our best to get you in there and and get the job done for
you so basically she's saying Daniels that you owe a lot of gift baskets
I do I I'm like going through gift basket
that's cool I don't deal with the residential remember but you you take care of all the back
end stuff like that and and Charlotte said just so you know it is I didn't call it Brad I said I just didn't want
to feel like I know I'm I'm just teasing the whole day I know who you are
well I I uh I want to tell everybody thank you for for joining Charlotte and
John I appreciate you guys jumping on and and uh giving your your experience and freely sharing your um
I wouldn't call them tactics but you know the way that you go about building relationships I mean anybody on the call
he should have got some nuggets here a educational selling works so education
and and you guys can chime in here but I it seems to me that
it's very familiar to me in the commercial world we have to be pretty educational based on our sales tactics
uh maybe even more so on your guys's residential stuff and then giving a care
about the person maybe listening tossing a gift basket or like I said you know if
if uh somebody's a huge dog lover Lori will find something that
matches uh she knows what kind of dog they had so actually listening and
understanding their need and what they enjoy and you can bring a little you
know along with the new floor you can bring a little bit more light to their day by just giving them a nice little
gift uh thank you um so that's all good stuff those those are two big things I think that came out
of this call and I hope people really take it to heart because you guys everybody on this call is successful at
doing what they're doing and uh so it's encouraging to hear some of those uh you
know approaches work for both sides of the industry uh but there are some
specific ways to go um you know with your homeowners so
anything any closing thoughts there by anybody I going back to the education that's one
thing that we try to just do if you educate them and then you let them you know pick out what they want once
they've been educated you know they they like they sell vinyl plank as being invincible and it's not and we don't
it's not that we don't want to sell it or do whatever it's just like just understand the limitations of the
product so I education is huge yeah waterproof flooring is not waterproof people no
[Laughter]
the doctor's office and I took a picture of a scratched vinyl plank floor and sent it to my son and I was like it can
scratch yes it will it will scratch in fact if uh if you got the right dog
um so all right uh Jose Daniel closing
thoughts before we uh before we get out of here the it's all the time is almost up for
the scholarship so everyone get on the scholarship if you signed up to be a
part of the webinar you'll probably get another email before it ends I'm assuming I think I got one today
uh yeah so uh what Daniel's talking about is uh our forward progress scholarship
with AFC ICA it's a Salesman you could really benefit from it
honestly um sales minute at uh flooring retailers installers uh several of our guys are
cims and it's the certified installation manager uh through the fcica it's a
great program it's valued around thirteen hundred dollars I believe so uh sign up it's it's a scholarship and and
uh we're looking forward to giving that out we have two days left for
um to apply for that scholarship so if you're interested in kind of learning the best uh practices and management and
things this it's skewed a little bit heavy because it's the I am so he can attest that you know there's some great
knowledge that you can gain in there yeah there's a lot of information that they have in there and I think that the
information that is available through the Sim program is worth its weight and gold if you're a salesperson it opens up
your eyes from the installation aspect if you're an installer it opens up your eyes to the sales aspect it just it
helps uh it helps bring common ground to uh the the full process versus one side
or the other yeah I agree I think that uh that program
anybody from any part whether you're salesman installer owner project manager
at a commercial firm can benefit from it it's got such a wide variety of uh of uh
of uh knowledge and and information and education so I know all this even though
I'm not cim because I have a several on my staff there Paul I also have the book
so I've gotten to read through their books and and their binder so again guys
uh we've come to the end of the podcast it I say this every week but man if an hour flies it was a pleasure this was
fun chatting with everybody and talking through uh everything thank you guys I do have one closing statement it was
huge man well one thing to close out with is good luck mom kick butt down there okay
yeah she's here we're in the Bahamas right now because she has a gymnastics competition
all right good luck [Laughter] good job all right guys we will
um catch you guys next week and um we appreciate Charlotte and John joining
and uh believe the audience got some value and we'll talk to you guys later see ya
The Huddle - Episode 27 - Relationships Pt. 2 - General Contractors
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose continue their 4-part series on relationships, this week on General Contractors.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody and welcome to the
Huddle where we come at you every week to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career with me as
always Mr Daniel and Mr Jose Gonzalez out of Michigan
and uh this week you spell it h-o-s-a
yes Jose with an H no uh this week we are continuing a
series on relationships and this week is on General Contractors so uh we're gonna
kick this thing off um with a question
when you guys have started your your uh dealing with general contractors in the
in the past how was the beginning of the relationship and did you ever experience
happen to um maintain that relationship you know a little bit differently I say
that because you know maintaining that relationship with general contractor if you're doing
a lot of work for a particular GC um it's not if you're going to have have
a conflict it's when and when you have that first conflict maybe your buddies and you formed a good
relationship and then you got a problem and this is the first problem you've come up against
how has that worked for you guys in the past and uh I've got some stories on it as well so
um yeah when we start with that how do you guys start your relate you know pick a
relationship you've got with the GC and how did it get started and then how did you maintain a good relationship with
them so um I'm just going to start out with fortunately for us the relationship with
these generals started uh prior to Preferred flooring so we were able to
establish a relationship with them and it wasn't always
um easy or nice right because we kind of had to follow behind other installers that
always made promises but didn't perform so they just kind of you know whatever you say they're not going to respect it
um but after after we started preferred flooring we had uh a better reputation
um then so it was a lot easier to ask for certain
areas a lot easier I don't want to say favors right because we were a little bit smarter a little bit older more patient
we're able to fill out the situation and understand what direction the
conversation should go so that way we could meet their deadlines and we can get the areas that we felt we needed and
that the areas that we felt we could um have complete by uh the deadline that
they set forth or exceed their deadline so specifically what was
some of those I mean you guys obviously like you just said Jose is you already
had some they already had no good knowledge of how you guys work and how you guys uh operate ahead of time
um so they kind of understood you before they started writing you before you got
into the position where they're writing new contracts is that what you're saying correct gotcha as far as like the
troubles like all right guys man we're cleanup crew right we get stuck with everybody's
stuff Gotta Move It gotta clean it the electricians are our favorite people um
drywallers painters I mean you you name it no we have to deal with it um so some
of the common problems that we deal with is obviously rooms not being ready like
people's stuff in there and I always say that you know every trade thinks they have it
bad but flooring does have it a little tougher because everybody walks on the
floor right you don't walk on the walls you can have two or three painters in one room and and a ceiling an
electrician putting in outlets and no problem but we take up an entire floor space so
a little bit more difficult so getting areas cleaned out and ready for the cruise that's been a problem uh another
problem is overspray from painters and who's going to clean that up and and drywallers as well uh all excessive
drywall mud you know if it's a little bit it's going to come up sander if it's excessive you know it doesn't and or it does but
it takes videos of like piles and it wasn't even drywall it was like the
fireproofing from them spraying yeah like dry fall and stuff like that and
it's like protecting the substrate from other people working you know we we fight a
lot with the painters especially if we're doing like if a lot of our Assisted Living projects have painted
wood base and they just go through and paint and there's this thick thing of
of paint you know uh foot off of the out onto the concrete and
it's got to come up and instead of taking a 10 foot piece of cardboard with them to protect it as they spray
you get that Now setting those expectations early is is uh good and
pre-construction meetings and such but uh and then cleaning out having rooms
cleaned out I you mentioned electricians they're like notorious for coming in after we've cleaned a room and putting
in Outlets or something and you can wire nuts and little pieces of electrical
crap everywhere and then they're gone took them three minutes
they're in and out before we're even we even notice it and then we got to re-clean the room
so those are some of the common problems but that's with other trades but it is the gc's you know it's their project so
that's who we deal with in those matters mostly I think you know like especially since we're some of the last ones in
there what we don't really take into consideration when you know talking to GCS is how much they actually have to
deal with like we only have to worry about the floors but they're in there and they're worrying about everything
so and to go in there and be like all right I understand that
you have to deal with everything but I still need my stuff done and just
showing them that understanding can actually go a long way yeah okay and you had mentioned uh the
painters in the overspray and you know some of that too like understanding the
product that's going down and then relaying that to the general prior to that area being painted primed or if you
walk through on a progress meeting you're doing a walkthrough you notice that they're priming and they're spraying and it's everywhere you say hey
this can't happen like I have to remove that and if some of them's like just spill over like
here's uh here's the information I'm just going to send it over to you go ahead and read that if uh if you can't
you can't defer responsibility right because you're telling them what can't be done yeah and and that's where
being up front in your delivery um can go a long way um with with a general
well and you start to form those relationships as well if you're in commercial you'll see the same painters
on jobs and the same electricians and and eventually you form relationships
with those people too and and that's why relationships to us is so important like
I just go up to the head painter I'm like hey man remember on that last job he left me a bunch of overspray don't be
doing that on this one okay man you know or whatever so it's like having relationships with the other
subcontractors on the project is important as well I think that that tends to help as much as how you deal
with your GC because your GC sees that you're working with the other trades to work through problems and not always
just going and attacking them on everything and they tend to appreciate that a lot when you can work together
more important actually because I've been seeing that a lot in the the
the bids that come through is them pretty much saying that you you're you
on it's your responsibility to get with the other trades to make sure that everyone's going to be working together like they just
I guess they're sick of dealing with it and rightfully so like I said they got a lot on their plate
yeah um they still are the general contractor and they are still you know
you still there's a level of holding them accountable to to and I think that's the biggest
dichotomy of this relationship thing with the GC is holding them accountable to doing their job so that you're not
you know tasked with doing it um every single project but at the same
time doing enough that they know that they're valuable to you
that you that that is the problem with the that relationship with the GC as a
client is you want your client to know that you care about them and you give
them a good experience but at the same time you have these these dichotomies these other things that you can't go
above and and Beyond every single time or else it's expected and you're gonna have to start figuring some some extra
money to cover all these additional costs you incur for cleaning out rooms or scraping you know what I mean so how
do you guys deal with that with that Balancing Act I think it's just a matter of
communication [Music] um if if we're not happy with something or we
we're able to have the foresight on a situation um going in because we recognize a
certain crew or we've worked with um ex-company a few times that we understand the nature in which
their supervisors have them operate it makes it a lot easier to uh to
to foresee some issues and to bring them up in a professional manner also is
making sure that there is a representative from the flooring side um during some of the earlier progress
meetings on some of the larger projects or even the smaller ones so that way you can speak your piece in the beginning so
that way it's not a shock you know there are four meetings in and nobody from the
flooring has shown up and and represented themselves
uh so they've already prepped around all of that and we haven't had a say so I think
it's a matter of communication representation uh that kind of falls into play so being being involved in the
meetings a lot of flooring people have bad reputation for that I think flooring
overall does uh I know that even we struggle to get to every job meeting we
do between four and five hundred projects a year and we struggle to get to every job meeting and so trying to
get to a pre-con meeting at least to set expectations uh is the very minimum we
try to get done and then we go you know there are certain jobs you kind of know
where it's going to be an easy project it's running smooth it's all set up real
nice there's not a lot of dependencies you know maybe it's new construction and you had a real good progress or a
pre-con meeting and it runs well and you don't have to go to every job meeting and then there's those ones you got to
babysit and uh be at every single job meeting so sometimes it can be tough and
I find that The Balancing Act is something we may have talked about offline which is once you kind of do
something for them just don't do it and let it go right you said something about
that Daniel like you follow it up with an email or something like hey we clean
this area out or we scrape this and pictures are worth their weight in gold I'm I'm dealing
with uh something right now on a project where you know there's there's moisture coming
through and I took pictures and stuff early on because I'm like hey guys there's some
moisture issues going on here and you know we're using something that or they use something that you don't
need to do moisture testing so it's like all right if you guys are gonna be
saying all that I'm gonna do it and I'm just letting you know that this is what's going to happen and
now it's happening so the conversation isn't I told you so
it's I have pictures you know you can't really just blame it on me because I
told you it was gonna happen but also what can we do in order to remedy the
situation what does you know the client want are we going to be able to get in there at certain times do they want a
moisture test now and it's is becoming a partner in every aspect of
you know the job it's you're a partner with the
GC you're a partner with you know all the other trades because everyone it all boils down to everyone
is there to make money the GC is there to make money and we keep on calling it GC but it could be a CM you know
construction manager but we're it's a broad term that we use we call everyone gc's because that's what that's what
we've always called them but it's it's a partnership because if if I know they're making money
I know I can make money we know they can make money as long as everyone's working together
yeah so those Partnerships what what makes it a partnership is the fact
that you guys have that we all have a common goal right like we the common
goal is to get the job done in an efficient manner and make money like most of what matters the most and I I
this is another point I had written down what's important to your general
contractor or your construction manager or whoever you are working with in this conversation we'll keep that to CMS and
ngcs construction managers and general contractors or see them at risk as a
overall you know Builder to commercial builders
um what is important to them I can tell you on most jobs and each one will have
some other things but on every job it's going to be schedule and budget yes
right you're not going to get away from those two and then others will add some more
to it but those two if you know your gc's biggest especially your on-site
contact so your superintendent or project Foreman their main goal man is
to get the job done they they don't care about much else how do they get the job done efficiently
and if you compose your problem as a almost as a solution meaning hey
man if you can make sure that the painter protects the concrete it's going to make us come in and out we can get
done with this area in two days in and out and you can turn it back we can turn it back over to you but if we have to
spend two or three days removing paint it's just going to make this longer
and then they're you're kind of giving them a benefit to take care of the problem so that you knowing that
schedule is their big concern um that's worked well for us in the past
uh I think that also working with the other trades that we
mentioned earlier you know if you can go up to the painter and make him aware and then you're still able to turn over that
area in two days and they you know a lot of times uh we've worked with G season
they're like man I would I didn't think it would go this fast you know it's sometimes you just don't realize how
much you can get down in a day if you're a high quality if you have high quality Crews on it and uh so a lot of that's
communication like you mentioned earlier but it's communicating the right message right and it's always
it's communicating letting them know what you're going to have done and also getting done what you say you're going
to have done yeah under promise and over deliver that's uh for sure the best way to
um when you over deliver you th project that they'll see you on but
you like I don't say you but I like to go back and say hey I don't want to
promise that because there's variables in there that we just can't factor in yet so I'm still going to say this is a
seven Working Day project knowing in my head that I want to try to get it done in five six or five still going to be
seven days in my head but the goal is to get it done before that seven then then you're the uh
you're the Savior you've done you've gone above and beyond but you've really
done nothing but stay on task
yeah and so when you guys we talked about the day-to-day interaction as a
relationship what do you guys do for GCS to show them you appreciate them
yeah we've taken them out to lunch um
I think just general conversation man it can't always be about work um if you're a people person you're
going to be able to read um a little bit of the energy that they're pushing out right if they're
under a little bit of stress when you're having a conversation um I like to just Comfort them a little bit not like you know give them a hug
and cry on my shoulder man though it's more like hey dude hey I know you're under a lot of stress I see it so don't
worry man let's work together we got this we're here to have your back so that way we can make you look good we
want to make sure that your client loves what you're doing we want to make sure that everybody else here is happy with you but in order to do that these are
the steps that we need and this is what we would like to see in order for us to
be more efficient if you're going to use me to push everybody then just know that
I need the floor to do the floor and once I get it done you can cover it up you can have it back you know depending
on what material you can have it back pretty quick um but just give me this area and then
you can store whatever you want in here just just and let it sit and that goes back to the relationships too right because
you said what do we do for them to show them that we appreciate them we were uh we were on this project and it's the
first time we ever worked with this guy you know we've worked with numerous other people within the construction company but it was like
he had a lot of pushback and as at one point he was like can you just do this
and I said No and then he was like no you're gonna do this and then walked away so what did I do what I wanted to
do and I closed off an entire area and this was you know first thing in the morning and by three o'clock he came
back over there he was like you really got all that done I said I told you I was going to get it done
and that that was you know the building of that relationship and then the last project we were on with him and you know
I had we had regular meetings in it in the meetings he he pretty much you know
he started with me Daniel what do you need let everyone know because you're pushing like you're running this project
yeah that's that's both okay good and bad to that too you being
the driver um because then execution like you have to execute nice so you
know you get a crew that gets sick or you get a an installer that doesn't show up it was during covet so it was okay
[Laughter] you did
so um yeah just to touch a bit on one thing
with General Contractors if anybody that's watching this hasn't dealt with General Contractors on construct on
contract projects so you get a contract from a GC
contractually you know there's there's um rules to you know bid rigging or that
what they feel might be uh encroaching on ethics and such
um so just remember that if if you offer something to a general contractor and
they refuse it doesn't always mean that they um don't want it just they don't want to
appear to be uh being bribed or something like that to give you work uh
We've ran across that a few times on some larger General Contractors where you know we drop off gifts so during
Christmas and stuff and we've actually had them say hey we don't we don't accept gifts from subcontractors
and we're like okay we get it you know you just got to understand they don't want to have any perception that they're
you know that you're bribing them for work and that's not a bad thing but we
have had that happen and so as you're building the best way to build a relationship and the reason I asked that
question earlier is there's not a lot you can do with them outside of just
being authentically building a relationship with them like you mentioned Jose like actually talking to
him about stuff other than work and um you know performing and and the
day-to-day work that you have with them on a project showing them you care and
those things and that that you're executing and over delivering and under promising as you mentioned but sometimes
you can't gift them sometimes you can't um we used to do this thing I think I've mentioned it prior uh podcast at some
point but we used to this thing called uh like it was called Wichita trivia and so we'd send out an email every single
week to all of our general contractors and it'd be a simple question about Wichita
our hometown and its history and whoever won would get uh one of our season
tickets to the Kansas City Chiefs game for the the next home game
um we added GC call us one of his project managers had participated the owner
calls me and says hey we don't do this it's not allowed I said that's fine we'll take them up
we understand we're not doing any but I do want to point out this is everybody has equal chance this is a trivia and
not a gift so the only way he wins is if he has the right answer and he's the first one but he still didn't want to cross any
lines so you'll you'll run across some of that stuff uh that program died because the Kansas
City Chiefs at the time were terrible and people started saying hey uh we don't really want to go to that game
at the time we were like four and twelve so yeah anyway no and I I guess I didn't
realize that we have gifted quite a bit of you know our merchandise to to everyone and it's
typically usually around the holidays and stuff like that or you know just randomly on different projects we're
working with this guy bring him a hat and uh and a cup
um stuff like that someone is always like oh man your guys's
hoodies are so awesome and then you just lock that in there so that way in the next next project here goes the hoodie
yeah you know um and I don't I don't really think about it as bright
because uh for me from a personal perspective um you know playing softball I've gifted
umpires some of my knucklehead apparel you know hats and stuff like that shirts
uh even some of uh of the other jerseys that I've designed and
not with any expectation that I'm going to get any type of a preferential treatment because if anything they
actually they're harder on me after that because they don't want anybody to think that there is a special treatment there
but just because they like it and like you said you remember that oh you know they
like this hat they like this this jersey I just happen to have an extra one here you go I don't need it I mean yeah for
the most part I think it's most of the time it's accepted I just wanted to kind of throw it out there sometimes it's not
if you get shun don't take it personally is my point the very large GCS uh like our other
negotiated GCS they're like take me to take me golfing and take me out to dinner I'm good with it you know and
that's all cool too but uh just if you try to gift a general contractor and
they turn you down I I would recommend not doing that out of the gate like the first time you meet him don't
do that there's another relationship and then figure it out but uh at the end of
the day if they deny it for for that reason just don't take it personally just understand that there are General
Contractors that want to keep crisp lines uh their fiduciary duty to the
owner when they sign a contract with the owner to give them the best value of their project they want to make sure
they're not crossing any of those lines so don't just don't take it personal and I can see from uh from my work
perspective too that it does when you don't feel like you're uh personally invested in someone or a
company or emotionally invested it's a lot easier to make the logical decision
um or to uh stand your ground on on something you need to any issues or potential issues
um when when you don't feel that there's a a relationship that could be ruined uh
there as well so I get it yeah I mean floor guys like swag right
you guys got some of the best swag in the business I just got a question texted to me
uh I don't know if they're unable to comment but it's hold on a second
yeah any questions what about when the GC is asking you to
do something that's not best long term for the owner foreign
I'm reading into this as hey just install it or just do it type stuff and
you know you can't because in three to five years it's gonna fail maybe it gets you past your warranty but you know at
our company we care about the end user because we know if we care about them enough it it's taking care of the GC but
they're sometimes a conflict there so I think that's where the question kind of comes from is you know what what if the
what the GC is asking you to do is not the best long term for the owner of the
building that's going to be occupying the facility We've ran into this a lot right and um
early on uh as we were you know a subcontractor to other flooring stores
so we were you know subbing down only we weren't full service it was always them pushing us probably
because the GC was pushing them and it was it was then when we were like
there's when you know something isn't gonna perform the way that it needs to
that's your name on the line that's no one else's name on the line right so
you we've been through it to where even though the flooring store told us
to do it we're getting thrown under the bus so that was kind of the end of that
where it was like all right if I know it's not gonna perform the way it needs to I'm not gonna do it and then when we
started getting pushed back from that it's when you start expanding your knowledge even more it's like I'm not
gonna do it and this is why and this is where you can find the information so
um we so how have you specifically dealt with that like
you don't have to name names but a specific scenario where we do quite a
bit of work in hospitals right so it's it's like look man if we do not do this
you have to start looking at the patients that are in here and the
health and their health right because um going back to moisture we we were on
a project where there was a moisture issue and you can tell like it has resilient on it now you rip it up
patch is all crumbling and stuff like that right and then it's like
they're they always come with well it looked fine before why can't you just make it look like that again yeah and
it's like listen that's my most dreaded response
it looked good before why do you have to remove this pressure sensitive glute that's over broad Loom
adhesive the file did just fine and and you just have to look at them and it's
like think about like money aside it's doing the right thing
man you got to have some Integrity sometimes and then like in the hospitals it's like this moisture
is going to affect the air quality because hospitals HVAC is running 24 7 and all it's going to do is keep on
moving that stuff around everywhere so you want to remedy the situation now or
really you're looking at if lawsuits can be spawned at any time
right and if they the more you dig the more you're going to find out so yeah certainly for neglect
it's just a matter of educating them the implications that they're putting
themselves under right is going to last you this window or you don't have to worry
about it anymore because we're gambling now you're going to be here and you want to gamble or we can just take care of it
and there is no Gamble and and the biggest thing is you know they they're
always like well are you gonna do it and especially you know these past few
years we're like no like this is where our contract ends and then you can find
someone else yeah I remember the exact job that started out like the very
I remember when we decided that that was going to be our we're not doing it and then Daniel never
lost a dime on the job I didn't take I think I think what you mentioned earlier the why is a big piece to this I
had a job where going into an area that's that was an old kitchen so it had drains and you
know slopes to drains and and it's being turned into an area it's going to have cubicles and carpet tile
and I I told him that we would have to level out every drain so that it's good
and level and they they the response was uh just patch it and we're okay that
we're gonna because I said you know you're gonna see some gaps and
you know because when you go down into a valley it's going to you're you're covering more square inches so it's
going to gap on you and so we explained that that wasn't enough and they were like well that that'll
we're fine with that and so would the owner bee so I got the furniture plan looked at that and there's going to be
people sitting where these drains are and I was like do you realize if we do this people are going to be like going
this way but their their cherries are going to be just moving around
and uh you know after they got that why it's like getting the right why uh they
were like okay well let me go present it to the owner I think part of the why and why the reason
I I and Drew that all out was because the why is what they need to go to the owner
and feel confident and asking for more money under given circumstances as well so it's not always the GC is just going
to pay you out of their pocket they're they're trying to recoup the money right from the owner so they need your why and
and you know there there's been projects lately where that's that's happened and it's like they're like all right we need
you to kind of dumb it down for us and then once I do that they're like okay this is something we could take to
the owner and and that's how that that conversation is all right now we can go talk to him
she brought up a few times [Music]
well let's just have a meeting let's get the owner involved let's all have a sit down and let's explain to them because
if you want me to explain it to them so that way you're not the bad guy you're not the messenger I have no problem
doing that um because I don't know how many owners of large buildings or any facilities are going to cut some of those small Corners
if they're not getting the full value out of their install they're not going to want to hear
it could fail or it is going to fail well and later it's all excuses now it's
you know on the front side it's it's the why on the back side it's an excuse so
if you do it and it fails or you do it and the end user has a bad experience
with what you did then everything you say seems like an excuse as opposed to
presenting it on the front side it's the reason why you want to do it a certain way
and sometimes it's not always money it could be just a scheduled situation they
don't they don't want you to do it because they want you done tomorrow and what you're proposing is going to take an extra two days or something
but that's where it's nice to have multiple things in the toolbox and not be so set on you know one manufacturer
or something like that because there's plenty of times where like this can this is available and this can
work right now they it's right here you know it does it cost more yeah but
we're gonna stick to that schedule yeah yeah being creative with that that
brings up a good point being creative with solutions to the problems that are inevitably going to come up on projects
uh the GC really any general contractor will appreciate your efforts in being
creative with your with Solutions when it comes to either budget or schedule
um many times I'm sure you guys have been through value engineering on projects and sometimes it's schedule
sometimes it's you know trying to get the cost down and either way when you
come with Creative Solutions um you know they certainly appreciate
those types of deals too especially when it's both when it's this carpet is in stock and it's going to save you 8 500
yeah that's that one yeah that's what we like to call a win-win that's what you like to call the
building blocks of a great relationship yeah and that's pretty you know those are those are it's
awesome when you get into those scenarios where you can provide a true win-win cheaper
are more affordable I hate using that word cheaper but it's more affordable and
it's going to save you it's available right now yeah it's good to know your options
especially now with all the uh shipping issues
religious and yeah options so if you had a GC sitting across from
you right now that you did not know what would you guys say about yourself to kick off a
good relationship with them I guess this happens quite a bit we just
had a meeting a couple weeks ago with uh someone that called us and
we we try and and say that we're transparent right and we're
We're not gonna try nickel and Diamond because we've been on the other side of
that when that's what that company's doing and we're trying to tell you how to do it right it's this is my number man this is pretty pretty close to where
it's going to be if not a little cheaper for you and and that's what you get with us
um not only that it's our work really speaks for ourselves so
it's not going and hey let me get this huge project this
like uh you know our buddy Brian westmas told us you know a few years ago he's
like man I don't need the whole job just give me a closet let me let me do that closet let me go
blow your mind with this closet then then we can talk about something else but let me start out with getting my foot in the door give me at
least something so that way we can we can start out a relationship yep so I I've actually had
excuse me I've actually had uh conversations with general contractor before
that what went something to this extent you
guys that them talking to me they they say you guys your quality is excellent but you're difficult to deal with
yeah and I I said well in what regard well you guys are always all there's
always a problem on a job and with other contract flooring companies we don't have those problems and it typically
comes from we moisture test everything and there's a moisture problem or and here's the solution we try not to bring
a problem without some solutions um or this needs leveled or this needs
skim coated or this needs floated out this is not in the bid this is and
I said I can't speak to what the other flooring companies are doing I can only tell you that we are
Factory trained people where where we understand flooring we've been in this a
long time and we just want what's best for your owner we don't want to shortchange the job and this is the
reason why and you know they they tend to understand that but
somehow you have to make it Pleasant for them to to deal with you in
some ways so we've loosened up um softened the message it some of it
was our delivery some of it was our guys our field staff being too blunt like
nope we're not doing it until we do this yeah there's definitely definitely a way
to deliver that yeah just soften the message a bit a little bit differently and and
understand that what their what they care about they care about their schedule and you're trying to blow it up or they care about their budget and
you're trying to blow it up so you got to recognize what you're doing and then deliver uh appropriately
no we're just Messengers man the the floor they also don't they also don't like feeling like you're
uh you know holding their job hostage right and you're not trying to but it
can feel that way to him sometimes so I don't know it's a those scenarios are
a lot of uh case-by-case matters on how you deal with them but you know
uh sometimes you gotta put your foot down and do do the right thing for the
project even in conflict with your GC sometimes
in my experience uh through that scenario right there um someone who's been in charge of
projects a little bit [Music] a little bit push that like hurry up hurry up get it done I don't care it is
I had that experience with um not just flooring installers but contractors who are saying just say okay
you know the yes contractors yes sir right away I'll just go ahead and do it wrong for you because you're asking me
um they've already had their fair share of failures and as they get older and
smarter they understand stop all right let's explain this a little bit more like Daniel said not
necessarily dumb it down but let's put it in terminology that can be expressed across this boardroom so everyone can
understand it um but then you get the new guys who have just been put in the position of leadership and they're trying to
Flex their muscles a certain dominance yeah they're trying to try not trying to um you know make a name for themselves
they're just like no no no my way or the highway um
but at the end they they are going to still no matter if they are going to dinner with you three
nights a week and shaking your hand when when they're put underneath uh that much pressure you know they're gonna bust and
they're gonna they're gonna put it on whoever is whoever's in that trade it's not gonna be like I told them
the issue was brought up they never came with a solution so I figured that everything was taken care of you know there's a way to there's always a
workaround uh as far as verbalizing uh somebody else's responsibilities yeah
well I like your guys's um attitude towards gc's as being a partner
um as understanding their needs and you try to you know make life as easy for
them as possible but not at your own demise I mean that's kind of how we look
at it we try really hard um you know not too long ago
um a specific situation has come up you know a couple years ago when all
manufacturers used to have uh if you're chemically if you're abating a
uh asbestos floor and you use chemicals they would have different ways you could
skim coat and that well they've all completely like Mohawk the big the big
manufacturers completely said do not install our product over chemically abated floors
they don't have a solution so now you got to go search for a solution and we had this situation come up when Mohawk
uh this was a mohawk project uh had first basically said
that year that no more of our products can be uh installed over chemically
evaded floors period they didn't really have a solution but that was the problem we ended up
finding some different solutions through uh multiple manufacturers from pay and
some others scouring agent with a uh you know a primer system
uh uh we came up with Solutions and now there's more solutions as the as that
goes on but it reminds me of what you said earlier that like it looked good before and so I I've I that's what I got
told is we've done this plenty of times and I've been doing this for 20 years and we've done it this way I understand
sir and I understand that maybe a lot of your projects haven't had failures but
Mohawk or these other big manufacturers have had and it's not just Mohawk all
the big boys did this but they've had enough failures from this
that now they've separated themselves from the problem entirely so it does fail uh it can fail and so here are some
solutions and we had to work through that as a church project with a very good GC of ours and it kind of was a
tough one man because we had to explain to them why this has always been okay in the past
and now it's not and so those scenarios come up and it only it only works
um I shouldn't say it only works it works best if you have a good relationship with them and you show them
and you have shown them in the past that you're only trying to do the right thing and not make an extra dollar off the
thing you're just trying to do what's right for the owner right and I think that's where a lot of the
the training comes in right because you're you're constantly educating yourself and then you're taking that
education to the GCS um one of the the GCS that we work with if you look in their quality standards
manual they contacted me to kind of go over it and before before they published it and
every single flooring picture in there was one of our projects something that
we did and then you know for them to reach out to us and say hey can you you know
in division nine to make sure that you know that this pertains to what you guys are pushing out there and not only that
it's like this this other project that we're
on it and we're having issues now we're with the moisture and it's like well how do you know that's what it is
I'm certified I'm certified to test this the the concrete because my job to know
and then they're like oh we didn't know that well yeah so when I tell you that
you know these things are going to be happening and stuff like that I'm not doing it just to like you said I'm not trying to just pad my pocket and nickel
and dime you it's man this is we can remedy this situation now and not have
to worry about it later any GCS or CMS out there that are that join us or see it later on just to let you guys know no
flooring installer wants to add more onto their list when they're going in so if you're like mad at them because you
feel they're pickle and diming you trust me they do not want to do any mitigation systems they do not want to go I tell
extra work like we don't want to do that it's just a matter of protecting ourselves our livelihood is at risk I
tell them all the time we would love it nothing more than if we just come in and the job's ready and the concrete's fine
and everything's hunky-dory and we come in and knock it out that is our ideal
solution or our ideal situation adding three days of that they don't have in
their schedule of mitigation and leveling is not ideal for us that's not we don't want the added pressure it's
not worth the little bit of money that you do make I'd rather go in and be ready and everything be perfect
sometimes you know you the the little bit of money you make doing that still costs you a bunch of money that you
could be making on a different project yeah exactly and and I'm glad you you
guys said that I'm glad you actually talked to the GCS there uh Jose and told
them I mean the the fact is we're not we don't want that we just soon it be ready
and we come in we're most efficient make the most money when we sell you product and go install it efficiently and we
bill you and right ideally if we could walk in a job site and start installing
we'd be happy yeah you mentioned training earlier and I I
think that's a good uh spot to throw out that a lot of what you guys
have said and a lot of what I speak to is the stuff that's in the cim
right yeah a lot of that how you deal with people and building relationships there's good aspects of that in the cim
training so again just to remind the audience we have uh the Ford progress
scholarship for uh the fcica's cim program and that stands for certified
installation manager but it's really great for project managers install managers and
installers if you guys can get that go I wish I I'm hoping that a ton of
installers go and apply because you understanding what you the field people
are thinking or the office people are thinking a lot of them have been through similar training or that training so you
understanding how they've been trained will help you deal with a store that you may be a southern work out of or what
have you so everybody go go and um sign up for the Ford progress
scholarship it's a 1300 ish dollar value and it's a great program so
and it's uh and just to shed a little bit of light on that too it's like a bird's eye view of someone else's
responsibilities it it puts you in someone else's shoes for a little bit so you're like kind of like the Ghost of
Christmas Past right you're up here watching it and you're learning what's going on and you can you can see where
some corrections could be made or you can go about things a little bit differently to help yourself and and
help the company be more profitable help yourself be more uh efficient there's just a it's just a good program yeah and
and it's no different than the reason why you guys may uh an office person may
go get trained on the actual installation uh methods or go through a training to
install something because we want to know how it happens this is the installer's uh uh opportunity to do the
same like go and figure that out who you got with you there this is Macy my
youngest Macy hi Macy she has no chill she don't care that we're live right now
this is Voltron right here come say hi Voltron my son Caleb hey Caleb
uh nice to meet you welcome to the Huddle guys this is the true huddle now we have a
big team to get right then we did um Dirk did ask a question about giving away his some of his
apparel but he's a residential installer and he's been thinking about giving his t-shirts to his clients he doesn't know
if that's a good idea or not but I think it all depends on you know if your clients actually want
one it depends on how good of a job you do too dirt like if you if you didn't do a good job don't give it to them but
well I think that in general it's um
you got to give them something that they're going to value and not something that you value so
um you know sometimes giving away your swag with some some generals or some
clients I should say it's you know absolutely you know something they want
and then some may not so I think that's where a lot of this stuff comes in right yeah
something like this that's useful for everyone that they're going to use and then not necessarily a shirt that
they're gonna have in their claws that are just give away at some point so if they say that they want a shirt
definitely give them a shirt but something like this that's going to be useful to them you know on a daily basis
is more valuable um with as far as the shirts and stuff I'll take a shirt I'll represent me too
I'll tell you one little trick that I've seen um I didn't do it but I'm gonna steal it
so I noticed uh a GC wearing a Carhartt with his logo with the general
contractor's logo and then real small on the sleeve is the subs name
hmm so he made it for him with his logo on
it and then he put their their the supplier put their name
on the side here just real small not so small personal take their yeah I thought
that was kind of clever John right in front of them just sew it on
yeah I thought that was pretty clever all right well guys we have come to the end of the podcast again I want to tell
you both I appreciate you guys coming on and and sharing your experience I hope the audience got some um
some valuable little nuggets I mean a lot of this stuff is find that one nugget that might help you in your next
interaction with your client and if so it was worth your uh half hour or hour
that you spent on this podcast I can guarantee you that so all right I think
that you know if they look at it as everything that they do is a partnership they're not ruler of the world they're
not the almighty it's all right what how can I help you help me like how can we
do this together I think that that'll open things up to um
better opportunities later on when when they're working with GCS because that's 100 what's happened to us and it makes
it so that way they know that you're not just there to let me just do everything I have to do real quick and run over
everyone it's like let's make this a machine how can I be part of that machine yeah another another takeaway for me for
an experience and I just wanted to share this real quick is um we were on a project one time and the
this was uh through another flooring company and the guy who hired us
um I was letting them know the issues and the potential Solutions and when he told me kind of stuck with me he said
you're always trying to give someone gold when they can only afford bronze and my
my um rebutter to that was if bronze is all they can afford it's
still their investment no matter what right now we didn't do very well on that
job labor only we didn't do very well we didn't come out on top and hit a number
that that we needed to hit to appear profitable however we over delivered we
went above and beyond for the client and regardless of the company that introduced us to them
those people remembered that and that that company that could only afford bronze can now afford platinum and we
are a preferred vendor for them so it's just some of those little things right there that can go a long way you're
building relationships now that might not help you for two years but you're
still building it well there you go that's an investment on that's your gold investment on your side right I mean
that's the investment you put into your to your client for long term uh relationships
and uh they're asking for the link for the the program I think I'll go ahead
and copy and paste it on um on the streams that are live right now
so that way people can do it and I mean Google career has been blasting out some
stuff so it if what's the best we would love to see more people actually on here
and and talking and asking questions I mean live is great too but
um once you get on you know the mailing list for go Carrera then you're gonna get these they get
reminders hey don't forget sign up for this scholarship yeah so I get them even
though I can't there you go me either so
um in most of our social media it's in our bio so on our Instagram uh right even on
my mailing list you could we'll get it that way um if you uh let's see so we got one more podcast
before the comp but before it closes on the 15th I think is that correct Ashland
so we have one more uh maybe we'll start it with uh tossing uh tossing it up
somewhere maybe we can change your screen your screen image and put the link on as your screen image and
everybody can see ICA emails they're even sending it
out so yeah but look for that um on the podcast platforms ad I put it
out on two I have a link in there as well yeah so even if you don't watch us live
like some of these guys you know we see a lot of the same guys every week but it's out there yeah well people are
watching it maybe we'll put in our bio and on YouTube as well because I know
that some people are going there and watching it later so we'll we'll add that we'll add the link to our YouTube
uh Channel today so hopefully that helps some people out to
get uh get on and and uh sign up for that scholarship guys so
all right guys I appreciate you again we'll see you next week and uh I feel like with the uh the the
Huddle we ought to at the end go ready great
all right see you guys next week all right take it easy bye
The Huddle - Episode 26 - Relationships Pt. 1 - Your Crew
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose are starting a four-part series about relationships, starting with your crew. Zach Keur was able to join and give a little insight from an employee aspect.
FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up guys hey what's up everybody and welcome to
this week's edition of the Huddle we're coming to you every Tuesday to discuss
maintaining Ford progress in your flooring career I say it every week pretty much any career or any business I think most of
what we talk about is applicable um this week we're starting a four-part
series on relationships um and today we're going to start with
building and maintaining relationships with your Crews um this is
all party participant right so if you're an installer uh uh you know throw up
some chat or some questions in regards to uh some good and uh positive
um ways that maybe a shop you're working with or a builder you're working with
has really impressed you in that regard of building a relationship with you
and if you're a company um we're going to talk a little bit about that and uh if you find any value
and you find a few nuggets that's what we hope so gentlemen this week let me let me add as usual I
got the the Fantastic gentleman from Michigan Daniel and Jose and uh so how's
it going guys good morning all the snow melted so that's good
well I'm in Colorado Springs at the moment and we just got about an inch of snow it was 50 and sunny yesterday and
today got about an inch and 14 degrees so lovely sounds like home nice change
um so yeah this is a um this topic is one of those that I had to
go back and kind of search in my you know through the 20-something years I've I've been in the flooring industry
in 20 plus years in business and realized that I was really terrible at a
lot of what we're going to talk about today um and I'm still not great
that's the truth so uh hopefully we get some some uh interaction I can learn
something from the preferred flooring folks and and hopefully I can learn something from some of our audience so
I'm gonna kick it off with Daniel what are when when we're talking about
building starting building maintaining relationships with Crews
um and this is whether they're employee or or Subs but I think Subs are a little
more difficult to do your employees get to go to you know Christmas parties and all that stuff and uh maybe you throw a
subcontractor appreciation every now and again but you know your employees are
more involved in the company generally speaking so that may be two different
ways of dealing with it but what's your take on how have you guys been able to and what
have you seen out there that's you know with other companies on building good solid relationships with
their Crews I I think it just starts with
that like getting to to know your your guys rather than just thinking that
they're there to to do what they got to do and then go home uh there's you know quite a few
times where just being in the office the guys are coming to the office and they'll stay
here for you know half hour 45 minutes and just shoot the just talk and
see uh see what's going on in each other's lives and ask questions that
that they really don't have anyone else to to ask and you know it's not always
about work I think is what it boils down to right you have to get to know people on a more personal level rather than
just always talking about work yeah I am
I I think that's probably where you know I was the weakest for
uh the first decade maybe of being in business where you know
it's not that I didn't care it's just I didn't put enough effort into getting to
know them and knowing their life and they got kids and they got a family and
they got you know dreams and aspirations just like the rest of us uh just like everybody does and uh
realizing that at some point I started realized that
the way I was treated as an employee I took a lot of solace in that I was
much better than the company I worked for but I still wasn't very good at this it wasn't very good at showing people I
cared about them specifically our our subcontract
installers um hourlys I did a little bit better with there they're a little bit more you
have a little more interaction with them because uh you know unfortunately for an
hourly crew sometimes we bounce them around from job to job right but yeah I
was I was poor at that part dude and um I feel like I've gotten better but I got I got a long ways to go
how about you Jose so it's it's a little weird like everybody's Dynamic
is a little different right like so a lot of the guys uh the majority of the guys that have run through uh preferred
or been with us for a while or well being with us in the future a lot of
them are referrals through close friends or family and it does give us a little bit of
an advantage on knowing the personal um them personally
um like everybody I know like one of the guys one of our gentlemen Bobby I've known
him since before I think he used to walk around the softball field with boogers hanging out you know what I mean I've
known him since he was in elementary school and even like Jeremy that that worked for us so it makes it easier to
to connect on a personal level and you know that you know their life right you know more than the standard or typical
uh let's say boss or business owner um so that that's little
gives us a little bit of an advantage where I feel it's an advantage for for us but
making sure that you're able to keep that connection is it does prove to be difficult sometimes
right like you get you get busy yeah go ahead sorry
no you're good you get busy and you just you you know that you you connect with
them on a personal level but at the same time it's you're still trying to make sure that you can keep that revolving door of work
open for them so that way they have something solid to base their finances off and
with that with that happening you do lose track of the intimate portion of
any relationship uh that is at work yeah I wanted to bring up that when I
first started it I felt really when I kind of recognized and uh some of the guys I knew from the
other company that we worked at and that some it was more natural because I already knew him but bringing in new
Crews I didn't want to be unauthentic about yeah showing interest in them like
just so that they wanted to do something for me or for the benefit of my company or the benefit of the company in general
uh it really I mean it's it's a personal Journey for me anyway that you actually
have to care you actually have to care without the strings attached of of how
what it does for your business uh not to not trying to call you out on it just you brought up something that triggered
how I was and so I wanted to right you know point that out from a from a work
standpoint I feel like what really um which is the part I probably did
better and I'm still not great at but I'm working on it is good
solid communication and having the jobs
you know ready for them you know like making sure that they're profitable caring about their money
not just my money or the company's money but caring about their money by setting the jobs up correctly
training our project managers and our project Executives and our admin staff
to realize that you know get having an efficient job
site for a crew benefits that crew and if we can do that then they're going to
Make a Better Living and less downtime and those you know Less jobs getting
pushed um some of that's going to happen out completely outside of our like we can't
control them I mean you guys know you show you get pictures from a job site that
say it's ready and you get there and all of a sudden it looks like Sanford and Sons moved into the room
you're supposed to be doing so some of it we cannot control completely
uh but that's that's from the business aspect
and then you know a lot of the subs are my friends uh I have a few that are
um that I I mentor on some some level of consistent basis
come into my office I talk to them uh discuss a lot of the stuff I went
through as a sub uh even my employee installers just stuff I went through as an employee installer and and how we can
do better and one other thing I would say is asking them what you can do better
you know that that door's got to swing both ways in order to become more efficient on both sides you got to be
willing to take criticism whether it's positive or negative on both ends right
I know that there's going to be balance but um and to add to the conversation a
little bit because I don't want anybody to think like I don't talk to anybody at work because I do talk to I do talk to
everybody outside of work as well it's just like um like Daniel said sometimes when they do have a little bit extra
time and they have some going on and eating and we're working a little bit later in the office they come in and hang out and I absolutely love that
right like we'll catch up on life in general and I love that aspect but I do
take the time to shoot text messages or phone calls outside of work hours
um to the guys because I get reminded about them through little things that
Milan day today and I want them to I want them to understand that I think about them
at work I have to think about them but at home I don't have to but I still do because that's what you create as a
family atmosphere yeah that's one of the things that um I think is the biggest compliment we can
receive as a company is when one of our installers or whether they're subs or
employees say that it's like a big family you know
um that's a good just a good feeling you know they know you care at that point
because you can you know you can uh it's different with family right because you can have an argument one minute and then
15 minutes later you're all right and you kind of have to bring that that atmosphere here too right where it's
like all right we can disagree right now but just take a quick 10 minute breather and
then we have to get back to it like if there's no reason to hold a grudge yeah yeah it's a good point
uh how family deals with you know uh disputes and then but at the end of
the day you're still family it's it's pretty similar it is and
that's I think that's human nature it's just it's easier to stay upset and
disagree when when the relationship is long distance right but when you know you got to see somebody every day you
gotta bump into them every day there there is no reason to hold on to that animosity to hold on to
just agree to disagree and move on yeah and so so you know great Concepts
how do we what are specific things that you guys do uh that that
accomplish that so um you know I'll give you an example
I make 100 sure anytime an installer is in our office I go up and talk to them I
go up and say hi how's it going what are you up to how's the wife or daughter or kids or whatever uh and we actually have
a conversation and I shake their hand some sometimes we hug I mean
um you know those are those are real life relationship building things and I'm not
doing it I I hope I'm being clear here I'm not saying go out and do these things
unauthentically like you got to find it in yourself to actually want that you know but
that's been a real um you know relationship Builder I guess uh
almost um organically with with the cruise is man when I see those guys you know I
know what they go through you guys know what they go through yeah there's not a lot of people that that are
you know a lot of companies have people in the office that simply and and
frankly those are the people that could learn the most off of this conversation because all three of us are old and
stalms and you know what it's like to be out on a job site and not have the materials or feel like you're just a
tool in that company's toolbox and if we want to bet that is not a good
Innovation Community we have to be better too
yeah it's one of those things where like you said it can't feel like it's forced right but
at the same time when you're trying something new you kind of got to force yourself to do it and then become comfortable with it so
um a lot of what we have done especially like lately crystal is actually and I
think we've talked about it before she had the guys do a vision board to kind of see where they're at and where they
want to go and we talked about that a few weeks ago and just building on that
and how what what they have going on fits into what we have going on like
we're all striving for the same thing whether it's you know in business or personally you want to better yourself
and that's where where we're at and we we ask them you know how can we help you
guys get to where you need to go as well right we're trying to give them those
tools and it's one of those things where we never really realized how big of an impact you can have on
someone as far as like being a mentor and stuff without even realizing you're being a mentor just giving them the
advice and and stuff like that when you're with them all the time you know we we were in the field for years with
guys and I didn't realize it until it was really the last surfaces where you
know Crystal actually got a mentor and told me she was like
she didn't even realize that I was mentoring her until that time and it's like
you kind of need that especially you know through throughout the day because
there's so many questions that people have and it's like just talk to me let me know what's on
your mind it's it's a free therapy session right yeah a lot of the stuff that a lot of
the stuff that we we come back with you know they don't necessarily want to hear but it's the the things that they need
to hear sometimes
well and it takes a good Dynamic for that to to work
um you know I certainly have the adverse side or the other side of that where
I've mentored with guys um I got one guy in my head right now obviously I won't name it but yeah I'm
entered with him for I don't know a month or two he didn't
work for us for very long and nothing stopped nothing
um come to find out it was somewhat like a joke to him
and that does not deter me that is one individual that decided that
it wasn't for him and I get that not everybody you
know jives perfectly with in with someone else but at the end of the day
it does not deter me I still feel like um I poured into him and that's my job not
how he deals with it or not how the person deals with it it's did I pour into them my knowledge and my experience
and my time and my my my care um you just can't get hung up on whether
it works every time is the point right and that's the thing that that you realize too right is is
as long as you know you're doing your best not everyone wants to be helped right so yeah
foreign wants to be all dead you know if I told
you that I took all the advice that I was given uh through what people or individuals that would be labeled as my
mentor I'd I'd 100 be lying to you um
I said find out the hard way myself because I want to feel it smell it touch it
and it doesn't matter what anybody says to you if it's it's not sometimes if
it's not your idea then your brain rejects it and then you can kind of relate it to kids right
because you look at your kids and you can tell them don't do that don't do that and then finally it's like not
listening go ahead do it now you're crying so what do we learn oh told you
um you know another way too like like I'm gonna go back to the original question that yes uh Daniel and
and some of the ways that I relate to people are a little I want to say unorthodox right only
because that's just our my our family Dynamic like we'll go
to I'll just use Thanksgiving we'll go to Thanksgiving and our Thanksgiving consists of us having
dinner watching the kids trip and fight and and do kid things and as they run in
front of in front of us while we're sitting on the couch we try to trip them and then laugh when they fall um you know so that's uh that's just
kind of how how we grew up so it's normal so the adults will sit there and we'll make fun
of each other which is we'll just rip on each other right but that's our family dynamic
um we like to make fun of each other we like to laugh even at this at our expense or someone else's and a lot of
my relationships with uh with the guys that have worked with us that weren't currently working for us
we do that we have that banter back and forth and it keeps us fresh it keeps us on our toes it keeps the wits alive but
um that's just a a way that I personally make connections with people is I like I
like to have banter like that back and forth but when enough is enough we have to know
that and um life has got to be serious at some moments and life can can be fun and
just having that type of connection with somebody and being able to play around like that
um really helps build a stronger foundation in our relationship outside of just the work relationship
um gives you a chance to kind of you know
we all know the construction industry is tough tough business one is tough
business you know when you have a bad day if you've got a boss that you can go uh let loose with a little bit uh maybe
uh toss some uh you know I hate this play some cornhole yeah I
mean it can it can get um pretty racy sometimes uh with some of
our guys you know they uh from the aspect of you know talking talking
with each other um but you know it gives them a chance to just kind of forget about the day and uh
you know some we all have our tough days so you know that's again it kind of goes back to treat them like family I've I've
been to a lot of we've all been a ton of uh conferences and obviously uh we we
support that if you're in the flooring industry as an installer you ought to get to some of
these things but at the conferences you know um they talk about building
relationships a lot they and they talk about I remember I think it was a fuse
conference actually but one of the speakers they're their biggest thing was these these
people are with you with in the same time frame that you're probably with your family so you should treat them as
such and it was all about treating your employees like family and I'm that that
can be real cliche but if you exercise it and you do it and you actually treat
them like that then you know most of your guys are going to stick around
um and you're going to have a better time together at work right like you said earlier you know you
can't treat them like a tool you gotta and the whole family Dynamic comes in because you have to realize that these
guys are and we can kind of get into the whole generational thing where the younger
people are coming in right because we have some younger guys working with us and it's like they're they want to come
in and work but they also have a life outside of work that they want to get to enjoy so what can you do in order to
kind of help them out with that and for you know the past
oh it's been a long time we we stopped working weekends you know we tell
everyone you want us to work a weekend you're definitely gonna have to make it worth it because we also have to make it
worth it because that's cutting in on family time yeah
and then you know even if if some of the some of these guys that work with us you know that they don't have kids or
anything but still they they have things planned on the weekends and it's like sorry man like in order to break these
plans like your job isn't worth me putting my my guys in a position to
where they're going to be angry and then not produce that following week I'd rather give them the days off that they
already had planned to do something and then we'll start off for us next week
that's it's always a hard thing too it's like it took so long for for me to
comfortably get that message across to a lot of the companies that that we were establishing we've been doing work for
and I know not everybody goes for it not everybody does it there's a lot of guys that would rather work on the weekend uh
than you know than a Thursday or Friday and I get I understand it um and and everybody do what what they
what they wish for their work schedule it just for us and what we were doing and the Dynamics that we had going on it
just seemed to fit better for us to avoid working uh weekends
team morale was better on Monday there was there was more benefits than
negatives and the benefits were more internal obviously right
I wasn't keeping everybody happy when I made them or when we made those decisions
but you you sorry you paused and then went real fast it's gonna make it's gonna
sound real good on the podcast oh okay um so that was crazy sorry but it did it
did help uh I thought I said something wrong for a second I said but it but it did it did help uh it did help our
chemistry as a company and production did get better
it it did and guys were guys love the fact that I did my best to
avoid nights or weekends Can I 100 avoid it no no but it's got to be necessary so yeah
you got to push back on your client to make sure is it necessary or just
something that they're wanting um correct we get a lot of you know well
can you guys work Saturday and Sunday and uh my question is always
is that part of our duration and then if it if it's if it's not is this Con is
this really necessary like what whether don't just say yes I I want to drill
down and find out why do they why do they think they need us to work this weekend and
um you know over the summer this year we our guys were ran pretty hard
um we did work quite a few weekends but I'll tell you we recognized that with
the guys we we told them each each one of them look we know we're driving hard
here and we know it's getting crazy but uh hang in with us you know obviously
it's going to slow down a little bit and we'll we'll um we'll uh get back to some normal work
hours at least acknowledge it I think is where we were at we're not as far along as you
guys in that respect as far as like trying almost setting the rule that you
don't have that you don't work weekends and then someone's really gotta come at you with a real good reason why
um we just try to make sure that it's uh actually necessary and not just a request or a want or you know a a nice
to have right and then we're getting comments uh from LinkedIn like
weekends inflate the price and it costs more installing weekends and nights and
you can look at it like that right but at the same time you have to look at it
from from a different perspective as well like yeah you could get paid more but I'll always go back to
um we had a meeting over here at Welsh Style with Dan Wells and he put it you
know he he laid it out he said you got to start thinking about it as you only have so many miles on your knees yes
so when when you're already working 40 plus hours between Monday and Friday
and then you get weekends in the mix you don't give your body that time that it
needs to rush right and especially lately like when when I go in the field
all it takes is one one day and I feel broken
[Laughter] and you know once you start getting into that rhythm again right it's it's a
little bit easier because you you think things in motion want to stay in motion right it's it's a fact so the more you
do it the easier it gets but just just me being out in the field for three
days puts me in knee braces for two weeks um I went in the field uh I mean this
was probably a good couple months ago now to where you know I worked a few
days and I felt fine and then on a weekend I'm just standing there and you
know we're at a a meeting I'm just meeting all these parents for my niece's new softball team and I'm standing there
talking to one of the coaches and I'm my body just goes like this and I have to catch myself and they're like you all
right I'm like it just went out like I have to limp back to my truck now
yeah well that's it you know we have we touched on this on a previous podcast
during the safety stuff or taking care of your body of your body right and and
if you look at it like you're like uh Dan Welch said is you only have so many
up and downs right you only have so many miles on your knees are you wasting them on weekend work
that's not necessary I mean look if it has to happen I'm just the type
that I I I believe we should try our best to make it happen
yes that can also be done creatively by keeping track of who worked previous
weekends and maybe working someone who hasn't worked a week work the weekend in
the last month or so and you know so there you know you get a little bit more
creative we've we've actually had our leads go in behind a sub uh because the sub have worked you know a month
you know straight through weekends and then we'd just have our hourlys uh if if
they if they didn't have all their hours or something uh they were asking for
hours we can give them those hours and follow behind that sub and help that sub out and right you know so you there's
got to be a little creative sometimes but there was a point too where um we were this was a few months ago we were
doing a hospital project and and uh moisture mitigation and then we had to
self level on top of that and in order to keep on schedule I mean the guys were already working I want to say they were
working 50 plus hours a week at this point you know you know Monday through Friday at that point it's it's hard for me to
say hey you guys got to work Saturday too and me Jose and Crystal went in on Saturday and
self-leveled everything so that way it was ready for the guys on Monday there you go that was and you know what
I love working with my brother and my sister it's it's like that well-oiled
machine you don't have to say hey you need to do this it's just like if we walk in this is what's got to be done
all right boom divide Cocker beat in the middle slap hands and go home and that
that also you know goes to to the culture and showing your team
that you know even though I'm not in the field every day I'm still thinking about you guys and I'm still worried about you
getting the rest that you need so I'm gonna take some of my time and go do this and yeah
it won't happen every every time right because there's our kids
are busy so it's meant to have a free weekend especially like during the
summer is is really rare yeah so and I I don't
feel I don't feel right if I go to the guys and like hey you guys got to work every Saturday for the next three weeks
oh well what are you gonna be doing oh I'm gonna be at this ball game and then I'll be at this ball game it's like I
have stuff to do but I know that especially during the Summers when like Michigan winners are horrible and
there's nothing to do over here in the wintertime other than I don't know go bowling
Aladdin there it go sledding yeah don't nobody like to do that of the weather
and when you're working 50 60 hours from Monday through Friday you want to take
that time to even if you don't want to go to the beach at least you got the time to do it
yeah go do well and you know you bring up the
um a point that I wanted to drill down on a little bit
more which is one thing my guys know like everybody that works for me knows
I'll do what I'm asking you to do I'll do it I have done it
um I'm sitting in a hotel in Colorado Springs that we finished a few months
ago uh walk in a final walk-through with the owner and I remember
a few months back my poor knees guys was terrible but I laid uh uh it's probably
it's been several months now but I I laid some you know Fitness room bolon cheap vinyl uh double set with a a
comfort pad underneath it uh I did that because I had to get it done over the
weekend and our crews have worked their tails off on this job and they needed a
weekend off and me and Sean which is one of our superintendents came out knocked
it out over a couple of days and um so we'll I'll do what I ask you
to do and I have and I think that goes a long way with people as well right I
mean just uh one of our guys Zach has been helping his brother refinish his hardwood floors
and he's like I forgot how much work this was I don't want to do this anymore and then he came I was uh in here on a
Saturday and he came in to grab some stuff and he was like you working on a Saturday I said I don't
think you realize how much we actually work we're pretty much if I have
if I don't have anything going on with the kids I'm working like it you can get
that far behind just on the office aspect of things and are
you really ever a head though right and there's always a job to bid or a job to
get something right and then for him to come in here and see me in here you know
going over a print I got you know bids do and and stuff like that
and just trying to trying to catch up when it's the end of the year so there's plenty to do
and for for them to come in here and and see okay like these guys really really
do work as much as we do yeah I I don't know how to even as an installer
there's this um there's this thought like field versus
office when I was installing it was really prevalent like we were almost unionized not really but
like we always got together and just hated on the office but I just got in
the industry that I I came into uh but it was it was for
good reason I mean I back then our our the company I worked for all the office
you know had health benefits and vacation and holiday pay and all this
us installers had none of that not one of those benefits
um you know I think a way to I bring this up because if someone out there in the audience
um has that one thing that will help you close that Gap is
or a brand new helper has the same health insurance as I do
and it's paid for and it's it's the same stuff they have
the same holidays off they have the same vacation accrual everything that the office has so I think that that can help
with closing that up uh I talked to our insurance lady today actually and she
said um that she's seeing a lot of the bigger
companies like really really ramp up their health care for retainage
because the same things that we've been talking about is the people that are coming into the
workforce right now want to see those benefits packages and
if the big companies are working this hard to to get something going you know I told her straight up I said you know
ours aren't that great and she knows that because she handles them right they're they're not the greatest but
they're definitely not the worst right you could you go from no coverage to the middle of the ground where we're at it's
still it still saves you quite a bit of money it's still a significant right still a
significant say um uh benefit though and she said that that's what she's seeing is all the
bigger companies um my wife works for a a big bank and
just from La this year to next year the the benefits package has gotten
tremendously better like last year I was like ours is better like there's no point in the going with
yours and now this year it's making me stop and look like and they get they
they're really really ramping it up so if you're in a position right now to where you're well it's kind of late
because you have to have all your paperwork in by December first in order to get get it effective on January 1st
but if you're on the fence of getting something started for your guys now is
the time because all the big companies are doing it so you're only going to
fall further behind if you don't yep yeah and I you know that brings up
something that has been on my mind for a long time is how can we uh help the subs
because they they chose to be Subs but that doesn't mean that they don't need help how can we as an industry I know
there's some programs out there I I need to do some more research but how can how can the industry help to make sure
Subs have access to health care and I know Federated teamed up is teamed up
you know and has been for years with the fcica um I wonder if a sub-company that's not
a fcica member could uh you know and that's liability and GL
but I think maybe it's the mtca that has a health insurance coverage program
does as well it's just not through like real health insurance it's
a it's a group program to where you know you still pull your money together and stuff so it's comparable to health care
but it's not that you can't necessarily call it health insurance I don't think and
um when we talk to did we talk to the fcic about it I don't remember but it's you know it has to do
with something about the actual Health Care coverage and you can't get certain coverages somewhere so
it's hard to to blanket that under something that's National I'm surprised that there isn't like um
there isn't like a Universal Health Care Program for people to get into besides uh
individualized uh programs right like uh well I know there's programs out there for for small business owners and such
but I'm talking like if look I'm still considered a small business
you know what I mean from a the government's eyes and health insurance wise we're considered a small company or
a small business our subs are micro sized if from their
perspective so I was just curious if you guys you know because that's another thing and I was also thinking too
because um I was listening to another podcast and they were talking about
back in the day when Labor Ready was you know all the rage and it's like in order
to Labor Ready holy smokes in order to put something together like that right now and just focus on the flooring
industry so that way people have the coverage what would something like that take because you'd have to set up you
know pretty much an office in every state or have someone running every state because
of how different things are state to state and then I mean if you look over here
just are spinning you go half the state and this half the state is covered by this
Health Care coverage and this half the state is covered by this Health Care coverage so in order to put something
together that that could one you know unify the industry and have us
become stronger that way but you're also classifying people as employees getting
the coverage that they need and paying them on a W-2 rather than a
1099 you know it's it'd be great to have something like that
but how would something like that well if you if you have W-2 employees you
ought to be able to put them underneath your company's health insurance you know it's this it's the subs that are kind of
left out to dry on from a health insurance perspective and yes they can go to healthcare.gov and get individualized
but it made me start thinking about the hsas uh help I've seen those wheels
turning and maybe I wonder if that's not a good mechanism we got off a little bit of the topic here but it all builds back
to we actually care about the dang installations that's your family yeah it's your family
right you want to make sure that you're you're thinking of every aspect you can to take care of them is really what it
is I'm gonna look into that a little bit like you know you got so many miles on your knees and all these guys are like
working weekends if you ain't working weekends are you really even a flooring installer look at it in terms of our machine mean
if our machine gets broken we gotta take some time off of that
machine you know like if that battery starts dying let me go plug it in it
requires maintenance plugging in that's a hell of a good thought especially like the big the right on it
works for eight hours and then you got it it's done you kind of plug it in and
that's funny we we expect uh a lot of times and I'm guilty as this as anybody
for this but yeah you expect your uh your human um machine to be more and more more of a
machine than an actual machine in a lot of ways you know your your human um you know the installers I don't know
how to say it but your your twin said that's why you get propane but apparently he's never worked in a hospital so we'll uh yeah let him slide
on that of course the hospital or school or a food service area a retirement home or
most the places that we work yeah or an occupied building sorry Danny
now propane has its place bud but yeah I just think that uh I wonder
if that that I'm going to look into that I'll report guys are just getting in right now we got Zach coming in we're
talking about the team right now so it's only right that we talk to a team member awesome
welcome so I can see your face this is Zach he's the one that was doing
his brother's house refinishing the wood and seeing me working on a Saturday
good welcome to the Huddle man so uh I'm gonna put the guys on the spot
here a little bit we're talking about building relationships with Crews um I own a commercial flooring company
in in Kansas and so we were just throwing back and forth some best practices
from your perspective um what do these guys do really well from the relationship building with the
cruise uh perspective um yeah I don't really do well when I'm
putting on the spot man to be honest with you well you did well I'll tell you this
um it's just like talking the way you just did right then which is real authentic and and real is it um is it uh
let me get see if I can lead along do you feel like they care about you
yeah for sure and uh
what what do they do that give me an example of something that
they've done or do that makes you feel like they actually do give a crap uh they took us out
go-kart racing once I got to smoke those guys and go cars there you go Heat team building stuff
like that sometimes sometimes you gotta let people win to build their confidence
on the first lap and then end up winning the next one
hey my twin knows something about some go-karts too oh yeah propane propane go-karts do you guys
remember that on CFI when he got like T-boned on those fast go-karts like
broke some ribs and stuff Danny tell us a story for that one yeah we were at a CFI uh and went out uh
Team Building thing went racing those uh go-karts the fast ones Danny got I think he broke some ribs
anyway yeah so thanks Reuben so hey let me let me add something let me add
something here so everybody that Zach also known as Zach you glass or the
ghost president
even when he messes up he's the goat but um in his free time but dude likes to
blow glass and his his artistic uh views uh uh on his pieces that he makes
that stuff amazes me like I've I've purchased some of his stuff too and I've shared this stuff I even
tried to sell his stuff in a store um at the mall because I know that he's passionate about it outside of work I
just had to get involved with that Zach how did you get how did you get started blowing glass you're in it now bro
you're in it you might as well yeah I uh I just uh I saw somebody do soft blast when I was a kid my dad always did
stained glass so you're in it now so um but yeah it's funny story I actually uh
just did a Google search one day and I found some guy's phone number on yellowpages.com and I just called him up
one day and was like Hey man want to learn how to make pipes did you even know what the Yellow Pages were before
oh yeah it's not that young yeah but how old are you sir I'm about
to be 30 in a couple weeks all right you're still a youngster in my book pal
well that's cool that's a this is one of his pieces that he made me
this is um maybe butt plug
that's great yeah so yeah you got got into uh
blowing glass Jose and Daniel does this uh does his artistic abilities come
through in his uh flooring install I think I think his
his patience to be able to do something really comes through because blowing
glass is not just like I'm gonna get this done real quick he's told me how much you know work goes into this and
it's like that patience Factor really helps them out I think because
he's one of the guys that you can send them to to do something and you know that
he's going to go over there it might take him a little bit of time but I'm not gonna have to worry about that spot
at all anymore it'll be golden and we don't know if it's really
patients or like all the chemicals that he breathes in because he doesn't wear a mask or anything so
and we we kind of talked earlier too about um
trying to try not to work weekends and stuff because we know you guys have hobbies and for you to to spend your
weekends blowing glass is a lot better for your recharge cycle than it is to if
we would be like well guys you gotta work Saturday and Sunday this week you know
you kind of got to make time for the things that you like to do rather than the things that you need to do
yeah it shows you care not just you but like they care
you know if I'm guilty of uh not having a heck of a lot of hobbies because I work so much and I wouldn't wish that on
people so uh having having um some time off man I can't I can't
have a better example than our our ride-on machine I'm sorry I'm stuck on that like it is like that is a great
analogy comparison yeah eight hours of work and you're you're done and you got
to plug that thing in and recharge it and so humans we need that too so
all right guys hey we are nearing the end of the Huddle and I say this every
week but an hour goes by really fast Zach Bristol said that he made her a butt plug too but hers is bigger so she
can use it slightly better it's called shrapnel okay all right we
got off course Technologies guys Zach you're obviously a talented uh glassblower and uh flooring installer
thanks for joining us today and stuff you can find him on Instagram he does a lot of his work on Instagram right yeah
Instagram slash uh instagram.com
glass all right we'll give Zach a follow and check out
some of his work guys thanks again I do want to bring up the the um
board progress scholarship again um you got there's there's still some time
left to apply for that scholarship uh that go career has put on with uh in in
um Unison with the fcica so if you're an installer and you want to learn a little
bit more of the management side of the business and it will help your
installation career I promise you that uh get on and apply uh it's on all of
our socials I'm pretty sure I know it's on GoPro I do another route of sharing that again too to to get more people
signed up I go see you too Zacky fill it out fill it out brother yeah get on there it's a great program man it's it's
uh I think it's value to like 12 or 1300 dollars and it's it's an awesome program and uh
so that being said guys I'm gonna sign us out uh I appreciate everybody's uh
input this was a great great podcast I'm I'm really happy uh I learned some stuff
and and uh we'll go back and apply some of it so thanks again Zach nice to meet
you yeah you too all right everyone signing out see you guys later
The Huddle - Episode 25 - Installer Spotlight; Crystal Sims & Jen Zurn
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose are joined by special guests Crystal Sims and Jen Zurn who discuss their lives as flooring installers, obstacles they've faced as women in the industry, and their love for flooring.
FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody and welcome to this
week's huddle we come at you every Tuesday three o'clock Central to discuss maintaining forward progress
in your flooring career sorry about that um today's a special episode
um with me as always is Daniel and Jose from preferred flooring uh we're gonna be joined today by
Crystal Sims the installation Guru and
uh Jen zern as well so they shot a a video uh when was that Crystal
at the CFI convention at the CFI convention with Mohawks accessory
um side of their business and it was it was a pretty awesome uh insight into
these ladies oh I I would call it kind of struggle in
the start of their flooring careers I think all of us have some of that um but they have a particular aspect as
as being women in the flooring industry so we thought we would dive deeper into
that conversation with them so welcome Crystal thank you for joining us and Jen should be joining us here
shortly yeah she said she's commuting but she's going to jump on her phone so
all right so we get Jose and Jen in the cars
I've been there as usual lately I've been there a few times myself so
all right so um you know maybe we'll wait for Jen to get
on to start any q a with the ladies but um Crystal can you tell me how that
um interview kind of came to be and and where that where that idea got started
I think Megan um from is it Megan from FC magazine FCI
magazine FCI magazine reached out and asked if I'd be willing to do an interview for them uh during the CFI
convention and I'd actually she had um talked about the
generational Gap is where it where it started from and I just was like I think that Jose and Daniel have a lot more
insight uh as to the generational Gap and so I asked her if the three of us
could actually be there together and so I didn't even know they were going to
separate that interview into me talking about the women in the industry so I thought that was pretty cool once I once
I seen that was coming out she has an issue to where she
she gets nervous and she's like I just wanna want you guys to be there with me you know been like that since she was
she was a kid why don't you just come with me will you just come with me it wasn't even that though I just I just
felt like they would present a lot better for that
installation crisis yeah the the topic that they were looking for and so that's
kind of why I offered the three of us because we all three of us have a little bit something else something different
to offer yeah well you kind of have the two birds with one stone thing though
you know you are younger and uh a woman so you can speak on both aspects so I
enjoyed the the um the video I thought that there was some
particular things in there uh one question in particular for you was I
noticed you said thing and and I wanted to just be transparent and get it out there like I know a lot of uh men in the
industry are walk on eggshells so to speak in talking
to women or not even just two women but to give you an example if I put out a if
I'm talking to the crews and refer to them hey you guys need to do X Y and Z and if
there's a lady on there am I messing up by that but I heard you kind of refer to yourself as one of the guys so that
seems to be maybe a key uh Insight at least for me does that bother you if
you're in the crowd of a of if you're one of two women on a crew and you're referred to as you know
not specifically but as the crew overall as as the guys or you guys is that is
that did I um did I explain that well enough I'm curious no I get it uh I it doesn't
bother me at all Jen needs to be added as a panelist she said
looks like they're working on it all right you know um one thing too is and this is kind of like the little inside
joke is um as as Crystal started progressing in the the her career in the flooring
industry I I never referred to her as uh like her like that's baby sister right
that's what we used to say all the time or if someone could do it I say you want me to go get my baby sister to do it for
you and you know that kind of like uh broke the ice with the guys as far as
um how she was viewed it she was never viewed as lesser than
uh she was always viewed as an equal and some of that might have been because Daniel and I are her brother and
obviously we we are geared a little bit differently but uh the other part is that she just kind of earned that
respect man like she earned it she lifted everything she hauled everything she did she did all
the Hands-On she did all the grunt work she started no different than anybody else would as a a green horn in the
industry um and that earned her a ton of respect from uh anyone woman or male or female that
weren't around her with her um or continues to work around her or whether she earned that respect herself
we didn't do any of that she did all that herself yeah I'm curious with day-to-day
interactions and things like that with your Crews and stuff so looks like Jen's joined us now hey Jen how are you
pretty good sorry about that technical difficulties
we got you in we blame everything on Paul anyways it's my fault
so um interactions day-to-day interactions because you lead a crew is that correct Crystal I do
how does um from the generational Gap standpoint more than female although I'm sure it'll
roll into there how is the if you have
um older installers on your crew how do you how do you work through that as a as a
younger lead so there's actually only one person on
the crew that is older than me um but we've worked together for
years six to eight years something like that he actually started like a year after I did
and so we work really well together uh sometimes he gets on my nerves because
he does a lot of this but uh I just have to let them know like you are still setting an example in
front of you know these younger guys who tend to follow his lead because he is someone to look up to and so
um I did have that conversation with him where it's just like you know me and you are kind of in this together he uh is a
we call him our glorified grunt man so he's really good at setting people setting you up for Success he's good at
you know loading the tools getting everything set up for for mixing prep and stuff so we are a really good team
in that aspect um but
yeah I don't like as far as running Crews I haven't ran into anything uh on
job sites there's usually everyone is pretty respectful of me but I
I present myself in that way as well like I show up as a professional I'm
shaking hands making eye contact um kind of talking him through what my
goal is for the day and what um kind of our process is and answer any
questions that they have gotcha Jan I was just asking Crystal about
leading crews out in the field from the generational standpoint as well as
possibly um uh being a woman as well but
you know for for the installation crisis and you bring in a bunch of people that means they're going to be our future
leader so I was curious to that Dynamic when you are leading older uh installers
on a crew um just some insight to your experience on that
um I haven't run into too much issues with having older guys on a crew
um you know more often than not you know you you develop that relationship and
they trust you know what you're doing and I think when you have uh crew members
working with you you know coming into that situation they are already aware
that you're in charge um but it's a little different when you're running into other Tradesmen on
the job site that are older that it's just it's not atypical to see a woman leading a crew
yeah so so there there I would say you get some double takes but once you kind
of stay like Crystal's saying you you walk in you introduce yourself look him in the eye shake them shake their hand
and you just kind of go through the I don't want to say motions but you're going through the motions to establish
that you know you're there to work and professionalism
you think it's harder to do that as a female than than it is like if one of us
walked in there and just starts taking control because sometimes you know like he's saying those the older generation
kind of views things a little bit differently and they could take things differently do you think that it's harder for you guys to end up doing that
than it would be for us I so I definitely think that it is a little bit harder
um but I also think the mentality of the
individual plays a big part like for me if another you know individual has a
problem with me being there I it's car carpet carp sorry can't talk it's for me
I don't care that is their problem my brain has like designated it as that so
I then they have to contend with that that's not me that's really the confidence that you
were speaking about in the video too right crystal where you got you had to get to that confidence level is that
once you get there is when you start to have that is that accepting yourself that you have
the authority or is it what is that um I I mean I think I'm still working on
all of that uh is are you ever done working on your confidence levels you know as you learn new things you're
you're starting to build confidence on other things as well uh for me
if someone is giving me a hard time I usually try to work out a deal with them
um how long are you gonna be here uh I just need to do this and I think that's
the difference between me and say Daniel per se because when he shows up he's
like I need this and I need this now she's a lot more empathetic than I am when it comes to stuff like that because
when when I go in there it's this is what I need I need the floor to do the floor you guys got to get out whereas
she goes in there hey this is what I need to do how can we work together and I think that actually helps her out a
lot because it's just not something that I think about doing yeah that's interesting yeah I try to
try to form that that partnership and maybe that's why I'm a likable person
when I'm on a job site because if I need to leave that alone for you know a couple hours in the beginning of the day
but that means I have it at the end of the day I can make a different game plan
to where I can still be where I want to be by the end of the day and everybody's still happy
yeah that's that's working I'm I'm on Daniel's side of that fence
when I was young and first started installing and started running crews in
my lower 20s and would catch so much flat because I looked like I was eight
and I I was like I see people what to do
and and I caught a lot of flack and I was a guy I mean I I caught a lot of
flack from older uh installers I mean I got thrown off a job once because they turned me in for
not having a hard hat on my own my own company guys did that because you know it was it was one of
those combative uh situations this young kid coming in thinking he knows everything and and to
be fair to them I was a bit of a uh egotistical jerk when I I thought first
got going I thought I was awesome and it took some education and some uh training
courses to learn that I didn't know as much as I thought I did which is why I am so heavy on pushing on training now
um but um yeah so I would imagine as as a as a woman in the trade
there's pros and cons like you have a gentler way maybe it's just smarter way of getting
what you want like it's still your goal-oriented I want this you just go about it in a
different manner than say Daniel or I would go in and like move this crap get
this out of the way get the ceiling tile guys out of here now we're supposed to do this today and you have a more
creative path to the same goal without causing all the both tension Rollins
says that um he says he's worked with you know both genders and
he feels like they get um a lot more respect because they have a certain self assurance about
themselves right like I know I'm coming in here and I can work with everyone so that that means that you know I'm coming
in as a partner right off the bat I'm not necessarily coming in and trying to take over the entire job like we're
talking about so concerns and stuff we could learn some
stuff that's why we're talking to them yeah how about you yeah how about you Jen working through
some of those site Dynamics and I think it's just like I said before
it's building the relationship having open communication talking to everybody on site trying to coordinate things so
we can all work together I get some you know pushback a little bit
but I don't think it and maybe it's just me I don't think it's any more than when I see like so my
husband and I were running the installation company and if he showed up versus I me showing up
um he was going to get that same pushback no matter what and
um in but in all fairness to what you were saying Daniel my husband is a very young looking face so maybe that just didn't
help our situation or a female he's young looking I know that
that's why you'll never see him without facial hair I don't blame them
is that that's his only way of proving that that he's 40. [Laughter]
showing the Grays yes yeah yes mine are coming in they're slowly but surely yeah
someone called us Platinum me too I got something to add
to that the theory you guys is uh from what I've seen as far as sitting back and observing is that
meat obviously has a male see check it out as a male I go in there and if I go
in there and I'm assertive no matter if I'm trying to work with or against someone to get the areas
um I'm just considered cocky because I'm a man but if a woman goes in there with it she's just considered confident which
is uh approach totally different you know and it's received differently
um depending on also like gen statue depending on the demographic that you're dealing with or the age demographic that
you're dealing with um and when when I started leading Crews I was young and it's the same thing like
I went incompetent but people still thought I was cocky and I was always leading people my crew was always older
than me and everyone I worked with or under on other projects in generals um they were always older than me too
because I was young I was put in a position at a young age but it gave me a lot of practice and and
I think uh I think Crystal's approach because I've seen it firsthand and uh worked really long enough is she's got a
very great balance between both uh confident
and and getting her point across but she also understands the importance of
holding her part of the bargain if she if she makes a deal if she says hey this
is our compromise she's got to hold up her end of the bargain right otherwise she loses all credibility for future
projects for the future of that project but that goes for anybody not just her that's for anybody and uh I think uh
I think it's a struggle no matter what but I I love the fact that she has her own way of going in and uh
commanding respect so to speak well I remember in the one of the round tables
that you two were on as well that talking about the generation uh the Gap
in and um the women thing came up too but it was really the generational Gap portion
where it was talk you guys talked about I forget who said this but I remember it
distinctly like we're not lazy we just try to find the most efficient way that
would be okay so yeah and with that being like
how can we get the older um maybe this isn't the best question but basically how do we get older people
to realize that it's not lazy maybe just listen for a minute and see if their way
is more efficient and um you know specifically since younger
you know the younger crowd I think are being you know attending more uh
trainings when I say younger I mean the the new people coming in the into the industry now have more access to more
training than maybe five years ago uh maybe some of that's coming through through cim or some other trainings or
just going through a training um you know a course itself uh
certification they talk about professionalism and such just depending on which one you go to but my point is is it because of training you you
possibly know a more efficient way than an old school guy would um and that doesn't have to be combative
so how do you work around that where you're like look just hear me out for a minute if you're being from a not from a
women's standpoint but from a generational Gap standpoint does that make any sense I I get what
you're saying I think we just have to have the conversations um because some of us we all of us it's
human nature that we kind of get tunnel vision um and we get stuck in and seeing things
only in from our perspective so the only way to give consideration to there being anything else is to have the
conversation hey maybe it's not that they're just lazy maybe they just have a different way of working and I mean
because when when Reese said some stuff I you know I was like you know I never thought about it like that and she had
some really great points I actually that would have been a clip that I would love to have gotten actually Daniel I think
you got it it's on YouTube the whole thing is on you yeah she did a fantastic job of explaining it and I think that
needs that kind of stuff needs to be put out there because overall I think the younger Generations get a bad rap for
that um I mean if I look at my kids they see how hard I've had to work as a
contractor and I I can I I ca I doubt that they would go yeah I
want to work that hard no they're going to look at it and go I don't want to work that hard I actually think there might be a different way of doing it
yeah and then us you know if we saw our parents struggling growing up uh we're
not going to want to struggle growing up we want to do something different put yourself in a different position for yes and easier uh chance of success
right that's awesome and well that's what parents do too right we try to send our kids up to to have it better than us
so right here that comes natural and a lot of that like I I did an
article about self-leveling right and that's what one of the points of self-leveling is is to do things smarter
you know you can go and go ahead and skim that floor three or four times to get it to look the same way that you
could if you just self-level it one time and people don't don't look at it like that
they they think oh you're just trying to take the easy way out well yeah man you only got so many miles on your knees let's uh let's start thinking about
other ways that you can you know prolong your body and having
you know uh the younger generation start with that right away is going to be
really ideal for the industry well and they're coming in knowing the newer tools we talked at one point about the
pot on one of the podcasts about you know just crab stretchers and how revolutionary we found those when we got
them you know I mean it's it's kind of like the cell phone you know the younger generation like my
kids grew up with cell phones like it was part of them you know growing up
um you know understanding that the tools that they have at their disposal coming
into the trade is is better and so they have a better understanding of the
easier ways of doing things and someone like myself who's been doing it forever grab a kicker and start kicking and
there's this thing called a crab stretcher right Kevin said they uh he had a hard time with the age aspect
because Kevin looks young as well still and he's just at a good worth work ethic
we'll get respect at any age and I think I'm looking at it from from kind of our
perspective right we were our we're minorities so we already kind of get that pushback we've been on jobs to
where a lady looks at Jose she's like you go here now and how long they take
you finish this everything it's like lady eyes don't learn English than you yeah we're going to be right here that
was literally a conversation what Daniel just said and so it gives us a different you know kind of view into
um what a woman may end up going through on a job site or a young person because I started off young too I started off
leading Cruise when I was like 19 years old and it's like no one takes you
seriously until you show them and it sucks because showing them sometimes you
have to work extra hard and and that goes back into something that uh I was I
was listening to to a podcast I don't remember which one it was about a week or two ago and it goes back to and this
is the the younger generation that was adding to it and they said that you know maybe us as a younger generation we're
going in knowing that we're trying to find an easier way knowing that we we're going to end up using an easier way but
if we're not willing to get our hands dirty uh alongside the older generation then maybe we'll never gain that respect
and um and that's kind of the takeaway I took from that is that
maybe the same way when I came in right because I was the younger generation at one point I was the person trying to
make things easier and I was approaching a different way but I also dove in next
to them if they were sticking their hand in the five gallon bucket of manure or crap I was doing it with them knowing I
knew a different way in a better way but I did it with them so that way I was able to gain the respect of my peers so
that way they were listening to me later on uh different approach and nobody's gonna put their hand in a bucket of crap
like I just said but it's it's just one of those examples where maybe there is some give and take on
both sides yeah well you guys both said it Crystal and Jan that you know it sounds like
conversation and how you approach it is 90 of it and then you know what comes
out when the Kevin was it Kevin that just said that hard work is respected by yeah
so I think where some disconnect happens is they they assume trying to find the
easiest way is not hard work a but B really what we should
be focused on is in my opinion is are they if if a young person is punctual
and dependable and there for the like works the same amount of time and is like there at 6 30
the same as the other Crews all this kind of thing if they're hard working from that perspective but then they find
an easier way to do things so really it sound you know to me it would be
if a younger person comes on and they're dependable and they're punctual and teachable then that's all I look for
and it doesn't matter to me how old they are or what gender it's those things that are most important Becky says that
uh presenting yourself in a mindset of always being interested in learning and efficiently working is a piece to
combative Minds I do it this way because I've learned this way just to be
transparent and open to questioning like do you feel that X is more effective
than y and it's oh posing is a question yeah like uh the people that say I've
done it this way for 20 years so it's the only way that I know how to do it
and they don't want to stray from that mindset and and what you have to do is you have to come with an open mind all
right I've done it this way for 20 years but this person is showing me that I can get this done and say x amount of time
and still have it done right then maybe we should be listening a lot more to these people than what we have been I
think there's just an also a natural resistance I mean to an older person I
mean like if a 20 year old carpet layer came up to me and wanted to show me a new way
of doing things I don't I can't say that I wouldn't have resistance to what that
Young Person's saying uh it's it's that a bit of that is just natural
um but there again is where we have to recognize those natural tendencies and
judge whether or not they are are serving us or not I mean is it serving us to be so hard-headed sometimes
obviously not right a great thing that you know I went through a certification with William Thornton and we were doing
some heat welding and he was watching me right and I'm heat welding and I'm
explaining it to another person that was doing the certification and he was just like I never would have thought to
explain it and do it that way I'm gonna write that down so that that's the way that I'm gonna teach it from now on so
this is someone that's been in the industry for years still learning and you can you
have to be able to take that information and run with it instead of being so locked into your ways that you know
no new information can penetrate yeah I think that'll always be training I'm I'm
wondering too if a lot of the their resistance to learning something new is they don't see
the time that it saves them right up front some of these things take a little bit more practice and I know for like
one of the guys on our Crew He said if he doesn't understand something right away or if he doesn't get the concept he
doesn't want to do it that way because he knows that his way is effective even if it's going to save him time in the
long run it saves him being frustrated in that moment so just just throwing out
there that it could be they just are not adapting as as well to New Concepts as
yeah I could just take that's that persistence in training you
know and then being persistent in trying you may not pick it up the first time and run after it but you know when
things are maybe when you're not on such a high pressure job you try that new technique or you try that new way
um but yeah I I'm curious for you and Jen did how was training for you guys you've
guys been through different certification courses and things of that of this nature different training how
has that been for you is it open arms are you treated any differently when you go to different trainings
both both aspects women and and your age when you first started getting trained
I say smirks right almost 21. I feel like uh when when I
started um Well everybody's nice that's that's
great but when you watch the guys interact they're not as nice with each other but they're definitely more
accommodating for you and you're like dude I'm an installer you're an installer let's just look at things that way I'm not delicate you don't have to
watch what you say it's fine my mother probably taught Sailors how to swear so let's move on
um so I feel like uh that is something I've run into a lot and it's just it's not the case and I
just want to be treated as any other installer and um I have a good bathroom to go to right
yes yes that um but and a maternity area all right
when so if you're pregnant I think we had to accommodate a um breastfeeding breast pumping you know
I've seen that in some of the other female uh flooring forums where women
are actually on site with their kids and do that so um more power to them I mean when having
one of the kids I was like installing floor and I told my husband I'm like yeah I think I'm having contractions I'm
going to go back to installing later and ten minutes later it was hey
could we just call the doctor I don't want to deliver the baby and it's just like yeah actually you were actually
installing pregnant and and having contractions yeah and Captain I remember
it perfectly it was a salon in Milwaukee I was doing VCT I was going around the door jamb
and and oh okay guys when you when you stub your toes and you
don't show up to work there's a new level of experience yeah no excuse what
what in the world that is awesome
I said both times I I delivered like a week after I stopped working
wow you're like oh break let's do it
that is crazy so um so that shouldn't get in the way either it sounds like not into not not that I
would uh encourage or discourage either any women to to uh install pregnant but
at the end of the day it shows you that it's not necessarily just like Jen said
it's don't don't treat her as you know more uh fragile or anything her ears and
her body are just fine to do the job she's there to do I think that's the case that we gotta focus on and then
when you have a a woman that's pregnant on a job site too you should see like if you're working in
an office setting like and someone starts complaining about the fumes it's like
a few months pregnant right now you're you're gonna be fine yeah Jen what I'm
sure that this question is going to come up in the chat but I want to know how many contractions does it take for you
to do a door cut I know so I have a high pain threshold so like to me it's like oh well that's
weird and I just kind of go back to it and they're like okay there's another one and but that's be that was it and
then I'm like you know I wonder if that's what it is nah and I was like well I better say something in case it
happens that way it's not my fault I'm gonna be honest to you and and to
Crystal like that just amazes me that you guys are able to function and and go
like I don't want to say like it it's it's an obstacle right but like to me
you know well they just show it yeah I to me it's like some some guys I
know uh including maybe myself as some in some cases always try to find an excuse not to work and that's what
that's where I was going with that is uh it wasn't even an option it wasn't even and you guys were doing that and I I
love that that absolutely amazes me that we are creating life you're creating
you guys are soldiers I don't know what the deal is hey do we have matching scars
it's right here I didn't do mine pregnant though yeah we told her to take
the week off she said no we could I could work one more week we're like I don't think that's what it was the day
she came back to work she's like oh um
every time I cut myself I don't want to tell anyone either except this time they uh I got eight stitches here it's the
first time they made me go to the hospital and I didn't want to the the crazy thing is is that everyone always
like they don't want to tell me but also they do want to tell me because I'm really good at like stitching people up
in a just real quick so you can be all right nurse Daniel
no nurse Dan Porter has said that uh the babies were learning installs in the womb all right we got new installers
coming on board soon I can say I don't know if it's because I worked through my first pregnancy I uh I stayed home most
of that but my second two I was actually doing flooring and them kids are like
way more hyped it might be the things I was smelling
so what what um after the the uh video with mohawks
accessories side um when did that come out and and have you
guys has anybody reached out has has other women who are thinking about
getting into our industry have any reached out to either of you two over
the the time here I I think that very regardless of it came out like this week
right gotcha today's Tuesday and then it was
last week last week Friday or something it'll be interesting to see I I wish
um I hope more ladies watch and consider
it what are the pros like what would you tell a woman that is especially a younger woman because right we're we're
talking about the generational Gap in a way and we're talking about women in construction in a way so what advice do
you give to younger uh women who are considering it like what should they
drop is if they have some concerns what were what are some of those that might come up that they just need to drop and
give it a shot maybe they're preconceived notions or
any of that like for me coming into it I was a
little the construction portion of it because I
had never done construction before but I can honestly say that it has made me a
lot stronger woman because of it and foreign that's because of all the people
that I have surrounded myself with who I've learned from have helped me feel
more confident in my skin and like leading Crews and being able to go out
and talk to different people and um
kind of coordinate different jobs that were needing to be done has helped me
become a better leader and I just feel like I don't want to say powerful but
you feel like like a badass like and it's not because you want the attention or anything it's because you're put into
this leadership position where you can
kind of lead other people to to different successes as well
yeah leadership's leadership regardless of gender or age so if you display those
you know those leadership qualities one of them's being willing to do what
you're asking of others right we we know that's a leadership quality also you
know being punctual and dependable for your staff or for your subordinates
or whatever that that you know being there and uh
being a you know a good leader it it doesn't matter whether you're a woman or a man but it's particularly important it
sounds like for your own confidence to get built you know what I mean like it's
self-generating when you show up and then you do the work and you're you're on time and regardless of your age and
people recognize that if like it was said earlier those things
are respected traits it really doesn't matter what your gender is or what your age is and not only that is a I think
that being in the flooring has actually led me to other uh have other capabilities outside
of flooring as well um foreign just other aspects of construction I've
learned to uh you know painting I can do I can re remodel our I remodeled our
bathroom which I put our bathtub in I put our sink in I didn't do the electrical because that's not what I do
yeah that's scary she calls someone else for electrical well actually I let my
husband mess it up first and then we call them um but I've like Charlie right I've
recently taking up taken up making uh like baking and stuff and just being
because I can be creative with my hands on the floor I can be creative in other
aspects of my life as well hey hold up guys you heard that right like she just now took up baking
so all you guys who think that the stereotypes that that's what women are doing that's what they're learning no no
no no no no that's pretty awesome yeah that you can find the love of
something else through um whether it's some can you know
um carpentry work or some Plumbing work just building your confidence to be able
to jump into some of those things is you know I know a lady who started a company
um here in Wichita about four or five years ago and I actually know her husband pretty well and she started a
company of handy women I forget the name of it but it's it's all women that go in and
in the residential world and do handyman at work for uh customers and they are
killing it they are killing it and they're killing it because they found that
look a lot of a lot of consumers uh now this may not you know go right over into
the you know commercial construction world but in the residential World a lot of consumers like having uh women do the
work I mean that's the bottom line and they are killing it she's adding um
a couple weeks ago I was traveling down in Dallas with Chris and he was telling me they're ready they're trying to find
more women to add to their to that business and I don't know how it's all set up but I thought it was pretty
interesting that they went into a male-dominated field and really just are killing it and it had to be the stuff
you guys are talking about the confidence to do that and obviously they got to do good work or at the end of the
day because that's what that's kind of like the Delta no matter what if you're not doing good work
you can get thrown out right but if you're doing good work and you couple that with the demeanor and the approach
and the creative um thought process that you guys have
it's proven to be a win for them I can say that it does uh cross over to
the commercial aspect as well because I find that when I go on to job sites where women are are the owners or the
designers are women I can actually relate to them a lot more and I think they feel more comfortable and more at
ease that we can communicate on that level that's a good point we've actually
gotten uh invites because they preferred uh to have uh Crystal there as their
installer and that was because like uh uh the designer uh obviously the female at one of the projects or the lady who's
in charge of uh getting uh everything moved out uh in charge of her Crews and
the office staff um really loved the fact that uh Crystal as a crew leader
um was there and and it and it just kind of I don't say it fed into it right but it it's women are not shy women will
Empower women all the time but a guy is always hesitant to empower another male
because they're a male and that's a superpower that women have is is they
don't care right is right wrong is wrong she's done a good job that deserves some notoriety and I love that
and and to that point Jose um you know one of the things because Crystal and I had jumped on a call with
uh she was a new installer and she was going through the two or five week out in Wichita and uh Dwayne Pruitt reached
out and asked us if we jump on a call with her and talk and one of the things that we you know had mentioned is how
great the other females in our industry are like we're each other's cheerleaders
and you don't always get that because you know where it's it's not a competition we're you know we're happy
to see each other's successes and um I mean it's it's fantastic to see the
older generation you know we have Susie Namba Kathy case and you know this generation with Crystal and Elena
lagator and it's really encouraging when you see the Next Generation coming in
that you can encourage them and then feel like yes I do have a place that you
know even even though there might be some intimidation Factor because it is male dominated they can see that they're
getting that support from their their females uh that are also in the industry
yeah because I don't think you know no one empowers a female like another
female and I've seen that not not just in this industry but um my wife used to
teach pole dancing classes and that was the main focus There Was You get these
women that are so like down on themselves and they you just get them in a group and you Empower them up to the
to a point where you know their confidence is is just out there now and she she did
some poll classes too structure pull though probably doesn't hurt as much but um
Rollin does ask a good question and he says that you know both you guys came from families that were in the industry
do you feel like this helps you compared to someone that's starting out fresh in the industry
that is a good question hey we were still fresh though Robin I'll just let you know that we were
still fresh when shooting when she came in we were yeah but we we were already started though so yeah that's a bigger
Advantage for them coming in fresh and having so many women that are
already established in the industry do you guys have a a month is there any
monthly women in Florence group or anything where you guys meet on a monthly basis or anything and just I
believe they just start getting that ball rolling so yes it is starting
sorry we've got some feedback
okay has technical difficulties Jed you said they just got that ball
rolling on that yes yes maybe we'll get some information on that so that way we can share some of
that that information on some of the live feeds or the podcast so that way uh women who are currently in the industry
or looking to get in the industry have somewhere to go to to get information um that would be awesome I just always
give everyone Jen's number so I think that and a flooring group
you know there is women in the flooring um group on Facebook there I think
there's one there's actually quite a few of them yeah I got kicked out of a couple because I'm
not a lady so um Jose
is it only for women is that is that a group only for women or is it just based
on that that a few different pages Alana says women of the flooring business and yeah
I think there's two different ones one everyone is allowed to go to and the other one only women right yeah so and
there are there's there's multiple ones there's like women in floor installation there's uh CFI gals there's tile chicks
so the the premise is is the reason why they don't allow uh guys in there and it
has no it's nothing to do because with you being a guy because you could be the most encouraging one it's so there's a
place for other women to go and be able to ask questions Express concerns where
they feel comfortable and other women who might be in those circumstances without being
may be judged by other guys no matter how encouraging they are because you know Kevin Kevin brought up
uh that's how chick Shannon right and she does amazing work she she's got great videos you know we met her
um and you know her and I think it's her
fiance right they're not married Chris yes yeah they're they're great people and you get on some of these groups and
it's just the amount of crap that people talk for no reason is and it is it's
like just because she has you know more followers than you you'll be fine man like there's no reason to talk crap and
that it's okay right because I've been on that side of things too where people
talk crap about me but you're always if you don't have haters then maybe
you're doing something wrong right it's like don't bother me one bit you can there seems to always be there seems to
always be a um I'd say a minority of people on these
Facebook groups that their goal is to like find something negative
um I've read through plenty I'm on Plenty of the Facebook groups and women are men it's like
there's just a a a portion of them that are always going to go down negative and there's a portion that's always trying
to find the positive and you can clearly see them uh but but I was just curious
if there was that uh aspect and obviously there is because and that's a good thing I I don't see a
not that a man should be in there but there should be some the some that are mixed with that being
the focus and some that are just women only and that's kind of uh would allow more men to show their
support and also like we're all everybody is all in different parts of the country if so if someone
needs a job in Wichita and they're a female and they they have a good track record or or are hard workers we we
would like to know them you know yeah it's also a way of you know gainfully employing people who
want to be gainfully employed so I was just curious if that dynamic's there that's that's awesome that it is I just
I just found another women's group on on Facebook I just typed it in to see what went on and I'm a little jealous of the
name it's called Wi-Fi
pretty good name
we're getting close to the end here uh it's funny how quick an hour goes jeez
um I do want to remind before we close that we have to forward uh Ford progress
scholarship uh if you guys don't know about that we mention every week but
it's uh fcica's Sim program uh go career
is sponsored uh one of those courses and so there's a scholarship uh
that we've emailed and emailed out I wonder could we post that like during
our next during next week's we got another email about it today as
well and then I also posted to the groups about it since I can't since I can't win it I
might as well ineligible that's right me too you and me together but uh
you know apply for that scholarship uh we will be selecting the winner on
December 15th uh or thereabouts and so yeah get on and
I want to make sure to to uh announce that oh the deadline I'm sorry let me make a
correction the deadline is December 15th and we will announce it January 10th the
day before my birthday hey
so uh uh anything and closing uh you guys would like to close with
are you talking to our guests I'm talking to Jan and Crystal our our unique guest for the week
well I would suggest that if there's any females looking to get into the industry one I'm more than happy to jump on a
phone call Zoom meeting whatever it is and talk about it
um and and two you know if if it's something where you like working with your hands
and even though it's a male dominated industry uh there is a place here it is
a very uh encouraging inviting trade
um I I just take take the time and explore the possibilities
thank you for saying that that's that's awesome yeah it is I feel like Crystal
uh I say ditto well I want to thank you guys for
joining us this week I know an hour's uh short time to get through everything but
I hope everybody gained a little uh insight to the perspective of being
younger coming into a trade that's also
you know um older dominated too I mean our average installer in the industry is
somewhere between 53 and 58 depending on which study you read so not only are you
got that battle but also uh being in a male dominated field so you guys are
you know lionesses in my mind and and uh I appreciate your leadership in this
this uh this Arena so it's a big lesson for men and women I think a lot of the
stuff we we talked about on this call so I appreciate you guys these people are saying that they need to see more of you
guys on here so you might have to just uh-oh we might have to just take a break
we'll call it the Crystal and Jen show yeah there you go crazy train oh let me
let me write the opening uh the opening uh statement and music okay you have to
only in song and dance Farm Jose interpretive dance so
um I want to add before before we let everyone go if we end because I want I want to add something that uh cross my
mind during this whole conversation is guys maybe we can learn something from
women entering the any industry not just flooring but you know we put ourselves in a situation
right now where the older generation was not willing to share information yet we have women coming in to every aspect of
life construction business and they're willing to pass that information on to the next because they are so supportive
of building one another up we probably wouldn't even be in a
shortage of Labor right now if we had that vision and that view and shared
that same Drive uh that women do we would we would be more than willing to share information and pass it out once
they pass it down but pass it on and pass it down uh because we would be building up the community around us
instead of making sure that we are the only one on that totem pole that should never be the case in any industry no
matter what we should be more than willing to share with with everyone around us essentially
creating a village right that's so just food for thought that's what popped in my head during this whole conversation it's not a flooring competition it
should be a flooring family yeah the competition is only you know a few times a year for the Regionals and then once a
year in Vegas yeah and I'll add to that that the the
lessons that you can learn is we're all installers so like the supporting that
you're talking about Jose would have been really nice when I first got in I could tell you that
you're not treated the best sometimes if you get with an old installer doesn't
want to see you there so if we could be more supportive of installers in general gender be damned and age be damned just
support another skilled trades person and uh support their journey by sharing
one of our core values in my company is that we share our knowledge and we make others feel that by showing them
and so you know the only way you can really break down the barriers is to not
have them in the first place and recognize an installer for their work as an installer so maybe Jen kind of
touched on this earlier and I know crystal said it too like we're not We're Not Fragile and all this stuff
treat us like installers give us the knowledge pass it on and allow us to do a great job
just like crystal said in the video let me show you right but also don't join our groups
[Music] well thank you guys that I'm gonna
we will see you guys next week and thank you Jen and thank you Crystal for joining us it was awesome I hope you
guys enjoyed it as well and we'll catch you on the next episode thanks guys
The Huddle - Episode 24 - The Installation Crisis; What Can We Do Now?
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose continue the ongoing discussion of the Installation Crisis, proceeding to take steps towards improving our industry.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up everybody Welcome to the huddle we'll come at you every Tuesday to
discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career I say this every week but it's really
kind of uh business General stuff and we dive down deep on flooring every week so
a little bit different um so I want to thank everybody for coming
and joining us uh with me today as always
well yeah I should say as always you guys have covered here as always our
Staples damn we got Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring up in Michigan
so we get together every week talk about some topics that we feel important uh or
uh has been sent in to us and um are applicable to the flooring industry and
that we find is uh you know worthwhile talking about so this week
one of the um this is probably
the biggest topic on our industry's mind and has been for a long time so these
words installation crisis um we've all heard and this week's
discussion is on the installation crisis but what can we do now
so that being said I I wanted to bring up obviously
um we're short there's a shortage of Labor of trade labor in general and we have that in flooring
uh kudos to the the organizations out there
trying to tackle the problem from a uh uh personnel's perspective like bringing
in more people uh more youth into the industry getting them trained people
like uh you know uh Kim and and uh Jim over at the fcef I
know that a lot of the other organizations are working with them on that from the ntca nwfa you know all the
acronyms of our industry and the branching out from them right yeah yeah
so if you can remember them all I'd say them all but I could probably throw a few in there and you wouldn't even notice as far as the acronyms are
concerned uh that being said we wanted to talk about a concept of
efficiency in labor um other Industries
um really hold this as like one of their key metrics uh we'll use uh like the
automotive manufacturing industry that is one of their key metrics what is our efficiency rating
right um just about all manufacturing is that way
now I'm not in efficiency and labor in particular so I'm not saying that we are like the
manufacturing industry but I thought I'd pick up some of their metrics so as an industry they look for somewhere around
depending on which article or survey what piece of research you look at but
it seems somewhere around 68 efficiency in labor so
what that means to them or what it means is just you're they're getting 68 of the
value of 100 of their labor right and as an industry they feel like that's pretty good like that's that's
acceptable that's pretty good now you take individual organizations
like Toyota and they aim for like I believe it's 96 or 98 efficiency
all right now Toyota's a jug or not and is known in in uh the business world as
being one of the most efficient efficient companies on the planet um there's books written about them uh
and you can kind of uh see why there's they were so successful as the world's
largest automotive manufacturer but then you take Tesla who is the up and comer
who's out there kicking everyone's rear again labor efficiency is one of their key
metrics I never hear this talked about in our industry uh all most of us most of the flooring
contractors in the United States use 1099 subcontract labor
now that being said how do we monitor or kind of look at the labor as a pool and
our efficiency in that uh particular metric
so would you guys say like on average just a a a a big average that
a crew maybe uh loses eight hours per week in
either the job got moved or you know materials didn't show up on time or they
get to the job and it's actually not ready even though the GC told you yeah it's 100 ready for you
that should have got a laugh out of you Daniel for sure whatever the reason is is that they lose
uh eight hours a week on an average now I get it sometimes it's more you know
maybe three or four days or you may have a crew that doesn't get a day off in months but is that reasonable to make
that assumption yeah it's probably more than that yeah and I think um you can find separation
too right like they did lack of efficiency from the cruise or
lack of efficiency from um other contractors so I don't know there's a way for that but if we're
adding it all together yeah I would say yeah so if you took that's a good point but if you just took uh the
efficiency of the people that utilize the labor the how efficient are we as
flooring contractors Across the Nation at using our labor the labor that's out there uh if we say
eight hours and we have two guys on a crew and I know this is not every crew I'm just trying to get to some some some
math here to to start a conversation but if we said two guys lose eight hours
a week then that's 16 hours a week right
now would you guys say it's reasonable to put the total crew number worse that 10
000 Crews would be certainly low that's not you know
or or do you think there's more or less than 10 000 Crews across the United
States uh flooring installers I believe there's going to be more than 10 000 Crews if we're breaking them up
into two but I would say that that's an easy number to use just for for some roundabout
numbers probably it's not outrageous right I mean I'm not yeah I'm not overblowing it would you say no right
I'm not saying 60 000 Crews I'm just 10 000 Crews okay well
I can do math pretty well but just for a little bit of uh emphasis here you know
obviously then that's a hundred and sixty thousand hours weekly of lost
production in our industry if we took that and divided it by 40 as
an average work week we're losing 4 000 hours or 4 000 work
weeks every single week in flooring
right I don't know about you that's pretty damn inefficient it seems like
that's a lot that means 4 000 work weeks every single week is lost that's the
equivalent of adding 4 000 quality Crews to our industry if we're six or eight
thousand short as has been proposed by some of the research
we're over halfway there just by becoming efficients now
I'm sure one of you thinking like yeah we're not going to get to 100 efficiency if if freaking Toyota cannot and I get
it like I agree uh We're not gonna be 100 efficient
but if we took just the Delta between Toyota and Manufacturing in general it's
about 30 percent so could we get 30 percent better and gain 30 percent back into get 30 percent more flooring down
every week because we're 30 percent more efficient I think um taking advantage of 30 of
that is that are you guys following me here no 100 following you on that and and obviously you know the the
automotive industry is more of a controlled area a lot less uh um I would say
variables inspired human uh mistakes right but they still have maintenance they still have robotics they have all
that to worry about and I think that uh we can
strive to get 30 better um but not knowing what variables to use
for those type of metrics can be hard to to Cipher exactly what route to take to
get to that point but um is definitely definitely missing a lot of things in
our industry as far as structured to get us to that point um yeah it could be double that guys I
mean we're just shooting off the hip as far as like having a discussion but just in all the travels to the different
shows talking to different people even talking to you guys having you know a
guy and I have it happen in my company where something happens and they're not doing
that job for two or three days and then they need they they're so they're gonna wait or sorry not the wrong term they're
they're those are dead hours for those three days right
um so I'm just wondering what can we do about the shortage now like what can be
executed upon now so I wanted to start a conversation with the industry
I would love to have just kind of push this out there I think it's irresponsible of us as
Leaders to not at least discuss this consider it discuss it and kind of mull
it over uh so I thought we'd go just kind of talk about it today and maybe in a month we can have a full panel
discussion with some experts and some different people uh in our industry and outside of our industry uh but all based
around um all based around
efficiency and do we agree that this is a problem I've talked to plenty uh
plenty of people in our travels and it appears to be a major problem so what's
your thoughts Daniel I think that uh
even if like you you started talking about subcontractors and stuff like that but even us as uh you know we have
in-house Crews and our efficiencies are still like that right because in the mornings if something's not ready our
crews are lagging behind those are lost hours as well and then when we show up and something's not ready that's a whole
nother story but a lot of the guys um a lot of the guys on the Facebook groups
talk about you know showing up and when something's not ready or if something small is in the way then they just walk
away from that job so they're kind of
making the problem bigger right because it's either you know I'm I take 20 minutes and move these few things or I
just walk away and lose all that labor for the day and a lot of the a lot of the guys out there
will just be like up that's not mine I'm not doing I'm not moving that well that's pretty uh that's a that's
interesting to talk about because just my quick take and is
if it's egregious but if you could move it like using your example of 20 minutes it's pretty silly to walk away from that
20 minutes of hard work earns you the ability to do eight hours of your
profession um I realized that it was probably someone else's job and there's probably
other things to consider but come on like and I know it happens too Daniel
you're you could the Facebook group seemed to be pretty ripe with that kind of conversation what's your thoughts
Jose on on what Daniel just talked about so so I agree with Daniel right like I
had every situation is individualized um and yeah we've been on both sides of
that 20 minutes of moving things like mood right depends on your mood right
part part of part of the issue is that as an industry we don't have like a set
of standards in place we don't have a system in place like a big giant template a holy grail of flooring to
follow as a template so therefore the the systems there is no trickle down and
then as far as the the items being in the way and you know GC thing it's ready
it's not you have an installer or as a crew leader or whoever showing up at the job
site understand that there might be very minimal effort um involved into making sure that you or
your crew or your guys have a full day's worth of work and you can still remain profitable
um and I think that goes back to not having the systems in place which means you don't have a contingency plan
in place if you don't have any contingencies in place like plan a plan a is this by plan b c and d is this
it just makes it harder to have those readily available uh if they're not
talked about beforehand or readily available if your mindset is not readily
available because going in after some bad jobs and seeing that or working with a general
contractor where that's their normal and you're like you know I've had enough of this I'm done yeah every time I go to
this contractor's project it's always this way yeah I'm done I'm out of here you know and
I think I don't know when our turning point was but we did start looking at it a little bit differently
like take pictures of it get out of the way we'll uh you know we'll raise the issue
but we're gonna keep moving forward well it just helps out in the in the big
picture right because we've been on projects where that's happened we take pictures and then they come back to us
and they're like they try to complain about something it's like whoa what you complaining about look at what we did
for you already yeah we went I I uh I share your guys's
uh fight and the the result a lot of times we'll have the guys take pictures
and load it up into our software and then um not only do you have it later a lot
of times and I would give this advice to any flooring company if your hat if it happens more than once or twice and
you're on a bigger job where it's going to be months spanned or something everyone gets amnesia at the raw at the
end of the project and forgets all these no I I would encourage to send uh notice
of delay to your GC uh we we have a template letter uh it's
just a notice of a delay of delay and we tossed a couple pictures on that PDF we actually put it on the PDF and then send
it to him just say notice that delay they don't like it but you've done your job and if they call you all mad say
look man I'm not doing nothing I'm I even I'll even move this stuff today but
I'm just telling you you're delaying us they don't like that uh they tend to clean up a little better after you've
done that a time or two uh but the ones that don't you get down to the end of the job and they're like you're behind
you're behind and you're gonna get liquidated damages right if you say listen I've sent you eight
delay notice notice of delay letters um
there's no reason to to elevate this into a uh worse situation but I'm pretty
sure that I I have the documentation I've alerted you to the delays I've checked all the boxes on the contract to
make sure I'm protected so that's my only goal let's work together to get this job done sir but at the end of the
day that's what it's for right Jorge right here he's on LinkedIn he says that uh he gives
if it happens on a regular basis he only gives the contractors you know twice he I'll do it twice from then on you're
paying me for whatever I'm moving yeah and we we share that I mean a
couple of times you send him a notice that you know I'll do it a time or two and then I'm like I'll tell my manager
send a notice of delay um and if you do if we do that if our
managers execute on that just putting you in a more risk off
situation when it comes down to the end of the job we particularly have to deal
with this in in flooring right I mean still manufacturers I I actually got
into a lawsuit long time ago and I wasn't being sued I was just a witness on a suit uh but it was the steel
manufacturer had delayed a project or the steel the steel subcontractor had delayed a grocery store project we were
doing in Wichita by four months and they did not end they did not change the
end date and they uh as usual tried to shrink everybody's
durations down to make it happen put us on three shifts we come in it we work
they wanted us to work from like seven to three four to like two or something
like that and like this crazy not even real first second third shift is like weird shift but three shifts every day
for three weeks to get the job done on time I was like okay well we we need to
change order for the additional labor this is gonna well you're still getting they're
separate Crews you shouldn't be in Crete incurring overtime or anything I'm like yeah you're putting me on weird night
work stuff and the crews aren't near as efficient and you know you go through all that but the point is is that
General Contractors no offense you guys are our clients if any are on here and we don't hate you we love you but the
fact is is that they're trying to hit an end date and be damned if everybody's
durations have to shrink down because something happened with the steel or the
earth work or whatever the problem was on this one as I said it was still the still erection
um but yeah so and your your comment Daniel about
um employees what do you guys do when when a job cancels for your employees what what do
they well that's that's what I was gonna kind of get into too because you talk about like Toyota and the automotive
industry when they have these huge factories and if something goes down over here they have placement like
there's always something to do right and that's kind of what you have to to look at
in your business as well because are you on the job site today no but you
know can you clean the van can you organize this can you do something else and take that off the plate that you
don't have to do later and we've been working on that so um like there's been times where
you know stuff happens it falls through or or you you have to push something up and then you don't have anything for
tomorrow and it's like we've got practice boxes out there we've got a warehouse that you know
um we don't have a warehouse guys so if we're not the ones taking care of it then it's a huge mess so we we tell the
guys you know everything is a team here so if you guys aren't doing it guess who
who has to do it yeah and you know that just puts more stuff on us so if you
have the opportunity to come in here and do some cleaning and organizing and learn where stuff goes let's take that
opportunity let's you know bring a box down spend half the day cleaning half the day learning a cut that you have
been uh struggling with you know work on some bass work with the material you've never
worked with before do something repetition you do try to find something that can be
productive in either training or setting themselves up to be more efficient because what you mentioned a lot of it
is right back to efficiency cleaning your van and getting it ready is gonna make it more efficient on on your your
work we can all agree on that I know because you guys installed my installed I guarantee you organized van where I
can go grab uh patch trial and not dig through 17 buckets underneath stuff like
yeah it makes it more efficient but so you you find uh placement for them guys
you find something we do our very best yeah we're trying to find an uh opportunity for them to to do something
like that yeah you try to keep some back burner projects that you know are are I want to say willy-nilly right where uh
the customer or the client you can get in here anytime no notice like an empty Suite uh and a strip mall that may have
you know they don't have uh attendant ready yet but you know that there's some demo or some string or some grinding
that's got to be done try to keep those ones on the back burner but when you slow down and a project moves for a week
or two weeks you can burn through those little projects fairly quick and once those are done you have to you have to
build those back up those are those are hard to find when you're not operating from volume and you're more or less
trying or doing your best not to overload your schedule for the crews that that you have available or the
guide you have right because you don't want to overwork them but you don't want to underwork them uh so those are the little diamonds like
that are kind of hard to find but we do get lucky with those through the year and
like Daniel said though if that doesn't work out we have nothing there nothing available then you know you you got time
to lean you got time to clean you gotta there's just just get to get better um at the crap and some guys are all for
it man some guys just rather stay home and they all make money and but then complain that they don't make the money
and you know it's not this is this is in general as far as what we've experienced over the the
years in the industry we've all the way back to when I worked um you know at the other company this
everybody's different everybody's wired differently some people want to get better and get the practice and people
are content where they're at you know and I wish somebody had practice boxes for me when I was uh getting I was gonna
say like the training piece I never experienced anything like that when I
was working by the irf we didn't know if the job got canceled you just went home we didn't have vacation pay now that you
just went home
and when Jen zern actually has a she said something on the chat
uh you know kind of comparing the the industries and how they're
they're oh yeah I see friends to compare right but if you look at the automotive industry the the consistency and work
performed day to day but it's it's the same thing right like I said if you're not over here you can
be doing something else and that's what she said she said uh they told their crew if you got time to lean you got
time to clean I love that Jen I'm still in that I'm just telling you right now
if you got time to lean you got time to clean uh yeah so I'm looking at that too
Daniel she just uh brought up we need processing protocols for
um increased efficiencies right and we could talk more about those uh opportunities uh maybe on the panelists
talk uh there's some some ideas and and things I think that could be executed on immediately in the processes and
protocols area I think also I'm not I want to be clear I'm not trying to compare our industry to the automotive
industry I think everybody got that I I realize like that's a juggernaut of a
machine they're in controlled spaces if you're on this line and that line goes
down you just simply go over to this line or to another place and so I realized that but Daniel brought up I
mean in in Jose you talked about as well is that we can have them uh train more
clean the van organize their vans take a course like what about
you know cim those types of courses like this is that's a good chance for Education
um it made me think like dang what if I put together like some training courses for the crews because we have our
training portal uh that on down days sit in the conference room and and go
through these trainings and complete the trainings even though it's online stuff a lot of what we like to teach on our
hourly Cruise because most of our hourly guys are highly highly skilled hand guys but we always want to continue to teach
them how to be um you know have the right attitude in dealing with difficult people in
difficult scenarios so training is a great way to do it and so is uh you know I had a guy
um when was that that would have been right at the beginning of covet actually uh we
just repainted a a big portion of the office and had the guy's doing painting um we didn't you know hindsight's always
20 20. I wish I would have just uh you know had our uh uh uh installation managers
pull down the box and do more training but even painting uh you know we just
tried to keep them busy but that's still um do you guys
put your hour make sure your hourly crew stays busy and then supplement with subs or does everybody isn't all equal
opportunity because we always look at like we're gonna keep our airlies busy and then any of the other work is going
to be done by sub so we don't have a lot of downtime except for an extenuating circumstances on the hourly Cruise we'd
do the same thing we do keep the guys busy um there are certain things that we
don't touch like uh we weren't busy when we was at like a week or two ago but it was a wood
refinished job and we don't do wood refinishing so there was no way out we were going to be like all right we're
just going to take care of this now yeah you know what it's a little slow
I'm gonna start window tint right no I get it um
you know at least one thing with the hour at least is you have they they're they're in a more controlled position
Subs aren't and and right and most I I didn't have the subs painting my office or sweeping the warehouse right I had
the hourlys do that because I wanted to get there keep their hours up and when it got slow but
you don't do that for Subs so we have to consider and I'm I'm not saying we're
we're not going to come up the solution right this minute or whatever I just wanted to pose the thought-provoking
question of how can we increase our um increase our efficiency
maybe that's only 10 but anything any portion of 4 000 work weeks would be
better than nothing so can we do it and how can we do it and what are some ideas and let's get a panel together to have
an open discussion that may be result in some new stuff the new uh approaches on
how we do business that we could Implement quicker than waiting for uh
the the new wave that's coming in something more immediate let's fix the
the stuff that we have now become more efficient we talk about it all the time from the tools when we talk about tools
and equipment what's it based in efficiencies right I mean like having a
good a good grinder or the the right you know the right tool for the right job because it's more efficient and um
efficiency is what justifies the majority of the purchases and the majority of the investment into the company
um you know you're not you don't buy things well maybe me sometimes but you know buy things
because they're cool looking all right but uh you buy things because what it does is it gives you time back
and you know you get more time back the more efficient you are uh the more efficient you can become the more
efficient tools can make you um or even the right person can make you
um you have the tendency to invest more into that aspect and it's just one of those machines right
like efficiency is is the oil and you got to keep you got to keep that machine going
and a lot of the times we're talking to to guys who are always
in the field right they they're they're working 12 hours a day they're coming home and then you tell
them hey you should work on efficiencies and they're like man that is not something that I want to be working on
right now it's just a lot of the times uh
especially like I well I always refer to the groups right because I see a lot of conversations happen but anytime someone
asks a question it they always come back with not always most of the time majority of
the time these guys come back with a dumb answer that don't doesn't make sense anyways or well if you don't know how to do that you shouldn't be doing
that it's like man like it's it's the same thing if that's why we're doing this and talking
so that way other people can realize hey if they're
looking at it this way maybe I should be looking at it this way and working on myself at the same time because
we're not perfect and we're still working on things right so that that's what that's what it is it's taking the
industry where it is now realizing that something has to change for for the new
people to be more attracted to it changing that and then bringing them in right now what's happening with the fcef
and and they're kind of pushes they're just trying to bring as many in as they can
without fixing what's wrong already yeah and then they're in that Silo of
bringing new in we just we're leaders here I've accepted it like I'm a I've
been a leader in my company for for years but from the industry perspective we're we're standing up and trying to do
something some people are following our lead that makes us leader so let's accept that and
let's go to the the fact that um operational efficiencies from from
the industry standpoint is personal efficiencies is another leg
down or another um another level up from that my my son worked at
uh Amazon for a short time uh he was between jobs and flooring and
now he works for an excavation company as an estimator uh but he worked at Amazon for maybe four or five weeks
something like that they train on which way to turn to grab
something me you want to talk and I'm not saying we need to do that so I'm not say but it's
interesting when you look at these really like extremely efficient
Industries and businesses there there's something we can learn from it like they
teach you you turn this way and you grab here and they have everything at certain levels so for safety and efficiency and
green light red light blue light for different things that you grab put here do that like it's all about efficiency
and it and they the only metric the main metric they measure when you're out
there uh I think he was called a packer or a picker one of the two there's someone that
worked at Amazon on the call like correct me I think it's a picker but
when you um that you you they they uh judge you on
how many items you pick in an hour and and uh how many like mistakes you made
in an hour on your picking and and they're they're monitoring your movement and everything uh it's really
like we're not getting there and I'm not even suggesting we go there I'm just saying think about that like think if
they can be that efficient surely we can get a little more efficient and uh as an industry as an entire labor industry
um you know I got a call this morning uh maybe I don't know two hours ago so it
wasn't really morning uh but it was hey man uh I ain't got any work from a crew
that I haven't heard from in years probably two years and uh I ain't got any work you got any work
I'm like that's an inefficient way to try to find
work too because like how do you what are you gonna call 30 of us until you
find something I mean that's the only way that that's how you do it right now but there was only a platform where you
could find what really means yeah there's only something available for that
very true like we know that and we've gotten to you know jumping on maps at go carrera's
uh uh a very efficient way for installers to find new work but the the interesting thing with him or
the interesting thing I just realized was he's going to call somebody until and then go to the office and talk to
people until he finds a job so there's these times of desperation when it starts to slow down I feel like
I've talked to a lot of people this last month or so it we always we were everybody was so busy and it does seem
like everybody's starting to slow down a little bit uh part of that's probably winter another part of that is just I
think that the economy is cooling off a little bit um but it's interesting to me is that
there when time when they don't have when when a sub doesn't have any work they'll go to a lot of links to get it
you know what I mean a lot of links to find it um but trust me I understand that firsthand
yeah we call it scramble mode man like when things get shifted so bad and you you don't have a a plan B plan C right
scramble mode like you know I think for one to actually I think it
was this year when we had a large project um that was going to soak up everything we had on the labor side so and again it
put all the eggs in that one basket and it slid them up and I found out like like four days before our start date
foreign
the economy and stuff right and you got to kind of play off that too and it's
almost like we kind of should have seen the writing on the wall because there was a few months ago where uh we do a
lot of Hospital work right and one of the hospitals put a capital freeze on everything and projects just started
falling off and you know when the last time that happened was coven
so well they follow Trend too and and that could help anyone be more efficient
as as following the right tread and it's funny you mentioned the automotive industry of the automotive industry is
actually one of the main components that actually sets the trend I'm spending as well it's one of the the top industries
to look at if you aren't following trends you said Automotive right yes
so is that on delivered cars or what what production production right so if
they in production of the number of vehicles is dropping
um that means that factory production is going to drop which also means that spending is going to drop because the
factory industry is a lot of the factory industry is our is the modern day coal
industry I I believe right like without cold back in the day people couldn't operate their the heavy
machinery no trains were running that means nothing was being delivered nothing was being delivered that means the world yeah not much not much was
happening right so I just kind of look at it like that I mean that's only my assessment by comparison that I did if I
had like right now two seconds ago but that's uh one of one of the industries
that uh some of the local groups here follow for um spending trends for the economy
gotcha
so I was just reading a comment it just it was uh from Jen again just kind of
clarifying that you know it is tough to compare industry to
Industry directly I'm just saying uh I think that if there's one industry that
can be that efficient you can borrow something from them right yeah there's there's just some light to be seen
there's exactly there you can borrow something from them some of the and at least it should encourage us that
we know that there's Industries out there that are that efficient we can realize and and look
at the end of the day we're just having a conversation a good conversation and in a in a month if we had a a good group
of panelists together and we're all just kind of going through this and and there's no clear like way to do
it at least our brains are thinking creatively about solving what we know is a problem
I think Jen knows a little bit about efficiency too I think she knows somebody that's very close to her that might have made a spreadsheet on
efficiency fuel efficiency and dollars saved by switching from one type of
vehicle to another now just just throw that out there really
from switching the gas to diesel yeah I don't remember exactly what vehicles
but I do remember uh her making fun of MJ because he's a spreadsheet master
well the um
sorry let me shut this thing down so anyway the um the the labor side of of
our industry we we get the three of us talk every week about how we're dependent as an industry on
the guys putting the stuff on the floor guys and gals putting stuff on the floor and if we can train them better and make
them more efficient and I feel like the reason that it's such a to me a a great
I uh thought process or something to think about is we are getting better I I
feel like you know a lot of the organizations out there they're standing up and doing stuff I mean there's new
organizations that have been formed over the last few years but they can't there's not one organization that can
solve every problem you know what I mean when it comes around to that so if Jim and fcef and Kate and them are working
on bringing in new and you got CFI you know ntca tcna you know not tcna but uh
nwfa and these organizations um training them up
they they can't be everything to everyone um so we're having the efficiency talk
and see what we can do about increasing our labor efficiency even if we could
get some good ideas I have some I'd love to share that with the panelists here in a month I know you guys do uh Jose and I
talked a little bit I know we've talked kind of chatted about this in the past so right I think we kind of tipped all
around the subject a little bit right because because we know that we can be better and nobody likes to point out
nobody likes to point out or admit weaknesses unless it's going to be the topic and it's the the conversation is
going to be beneficial to somebody for some bodies right but um it is the sad truth in our injury is
that we could all be more efficient at what we're doing and you just uh you just made me think of a a good point
um with all of the what the fcef is doing as far as bringing in uh new talent and younger uh more able-bodied
uh individuals to add to the industry to kind of help mitigate the uh shortage
what are we going to do if all these people do join and they are trying to be successful and we don't have
the efficiencies in place to help them Thrive what what are we going to do like
you know that brings up do you guys remember I know you guys were both in the
um the women in flooring uh where was that
at if I convention do you remember uh it being brought up
that the young people aren't lazy they're just looking for the easiest
most efficient way efficient yeah it came up today too in that uh that Summit
I was attending and um the guy who broke it down uh is studying like a
Neurology in the brain like there was there's I wrote some notes now there's a way that he broke it down to
to make more sense he said the the old brain right like the the evolved
brain so we take our brain way back it wants to find the easiest way to do
something doesn't mean and we perceive that as lazy now right but the brain automatically wants to find the easiest
way to do it another word for lazy or easy is
efficient so no perspective on on how you want to view it yeah and
the younger generation grew up with some of the most efficient ways of doing I
mean we can send emails and uh phone calls and
let people know where we're at and like this thing is got more power than the
space shuttle has sent us to the Moon you know and they grew up with that
efficiency in their hands and so it doesn't surprise me that they look for those efficiencies so to your point
Daniel I'm coming full circle here is if if we've been told and it's been uh
reiterated that the younger generation looks for those things should we not as
an industry then also realize that we have to approach uh our labor shortage our labor problems
uh from that efficiency lens as well I I
think I said this earlier but I think it's just simply irresponsible for us as an industry to not consider can we can
we become more efficient first I know we're adding people in but if we have the 10 000 Crews that we just talked
about which we can agree that's way low but that's what to use if we had those
10 000 Crews and we can make them more efficient just by filling their dead dead hours
if we can do that to some measurable number that increases our ability as an
industry automatically so interesting conversations guys
um we got like
Luis uh is on here and this was a while ago and he thinks
that we would get more people interested if a lot more people would actually
classify them as employees as opposed to just 10.99 and having them
deal with everything and we've we've touched on this you know previously too um about young people knowing that hey I
don't want to work for you on the 1099 because I know I'm going to have to pay my own taxes at the end of the year and
that's not something that that they want to do so I I think he's right there um I tell you what I'll hire you if you
want to be an hourly employee I that's the hardest position I've had to feel I mean literally probably seven or eight
of the few hundred Crews we have came from being our lease and they came
to me and said hey we want a sub who am I to tell them no you're not doing that and that's totally fine it's
just because we we know we have an emphasis on training and stuff like that and when you can get in with a company
that's gonna send you to training or train you themselves why not go learn as much as you can before you go out on
your own Point well taken because they are awesome Subs the ones that came out of
our hourly crews are awesome so that's a damn good point I mean um man just everything we're
talking about right now kind of Blends right into what I said in all day
all day um you know they they took they just did professional sports right just for a quick uh comparison is uh do you
think that uh Kobe stopped practicing once he made it to the NBA you know do
you think uh or along the blade there was a balance between Education
and Training education was uh uh learning the the why
um and the training was the the Hands-On The Experience because the training is the experience but if someone isn't
being educated whether it's Hands-On or efficiency
then they won't be able to apply that education to to the long term which is the training whether it's Hands-On or in
the field experience so and that that really um I like the format in which he
presented that it was it was a really good really good portion of today's session it was just for all of our
benefit what what um what was the um
I don't want to say seminar but was it a seminar what was you in today were you where it got you inspired it was a it
was an event uh by our local chamber um it was uh the uh the speaker's name
by the way is Steve Robbins Asian guy um really really cool cat but um the event
was for uh diversity and um and talent
in town yep so it was uh it was a lot of different walks brought
together for for one common goal and and everybody the basis was was all the same
subject but everybody had different views and their their different views helped paint one large picture instead
of individual pictures and and obviously that's my perspective right that's my take away from it but it was uh
absolutely it was a good event today that's awesome
Jen had uh and thanks thank you for your uh participation Jen this is awesome so
uh she said the next generation wants benefits they don't want to struggle like their parents and grandparents
um I kind of agree although I think Grandparents were were um you know pretty much employee union
like ours the subcontracting and flooring really caught steam in the 80s
and 90s and now it's like it is the way it is uh
but I I wonder what kind of benefits um
you know the installers at their own when when you
are the owner of your own uh job basically that's what a 1099 sub is they
own their job what kind of um opportunities can be
developed or something for uh for the the industry where Subs have some
benefits I I know there's options out there I know that there's you know group health insurance things that you can buy
into marriage in TCA or whatever I mean so I think
they're the opportunities out there I don't know that everybody knows about them um I know that because I've talked to a
lot of installers that have no idea or have had no idea in the past on where
to even go get trained let alone that those people who are training you actually if you're a member of them you
can get you know discounts on your um on your uh liability and work comp
insurance and you know a better um rate
for um your health insurance benefits and such but I would say that it there's
just just simply you can't have it all your way where if you want
benefits and those things go be an employee please I would love to hire
more employee installers I I know you guys good quality employee installers my hands up bring them in
the problem is we've had more Exodus and we pay well we have full fully paid health insurance
for for the employee we cover the health insurance 100 percent they have seven uh
paid holidays they get PTO based on their time they have all the benefits
anybody in our office has and they some of them have still left to go be a sub
and be a sub for us I mean it's not like they're even going to a different company they just want to own their own thing so
I think I would love it to to be a little more
uh on the hourly side but it's just not the reality so um how can we create I think part of it
has to be that the sub has to understand they are their boss they are the owner they are the king cheese go invest make
sure you're charging enough and get a health insurance policy for you and your your helper charging enough that's the
thing Nate says uh he says if efficiency is already built in most installers have
to produce as much as possible to try and make money at the going rate
he is 100 correct but that is efficiency on the individual level right I'm trying to pose let's
think efficiency on the industry level there's certainly Crews like uh don't
get any days off um and then two hours away is
equally qualified Crews sitting on their finger and leaning back on their thumb that nobody knows that is is off for
those two days or three days or a week right you know what I mean that could come in and help that guy not have to
work 90 hours that week and maybe have a Saturday Sunday off uh his point is
exactly what I or he the fact his uh accurate statement is exactly what I'm
I'm talking about there he shouldn't have to do that part of the problem is
in my opinion is the overall industry inefficiency so
yeah yeah and a lot of the the efficiencies have to be done
together right too many other installers out there think it's like you said there's a guy two hours
away that no one knows about it's not them versus us it's we're in the same industry Let's help
each other out you know come over here say hi we have guys stopping by you know just to hey I've never met you guys I
just want to come in here you know shake your hand let you know that we know who you are and we like what you're doing
just appreciate it more people did that and it's
all you got to do is come in and talk to us man we're not against everyone we're for everyone
people think that you know since we're in the position we're in it's I don't want to go talk to them they
think that they're better than everyone I'm not better we're not better than anyone we're just we're not anymore lucrative position we're not in any more
lucrative position either right well even if you guys were look I know you guys you're you're a humble you're
humble first off secondly just because you're really good at something uh does
not mean you think you're better or you're trying to get your message out there it's often when we're on camera and someone's watching on the other side
and we present ideas or we say things in a confident manner that it comes off as
uh you are uh you know you think you're better I don't think I don't think that's the case for anyone
to be honest with you I think you guys work really hard uh to
um I think you you guys people who are in your position work really hard to get
there through training and education and things so I think it's uh
it's a it's taking our lives man we've taken our lumps and we we will continue to take our loans it seems like to me
it's like the the caveman in the in the cave uh with a whole pile of food that's
gonna go bad uh but it's his it's mine uh and and I I I'm not sharing it with
anybody I don't it seems like there's a bit of that that happened I shouldn't
say it seems like there's certainly a bit of that that happens in our industry but um
but if you don't have any furniture inside people don't see it right so
um that's just the outside I don't want people to to judge and I don't judge
anyone in the industry by the outer shell right like give me some information I like to learn I like to absorb it anything that you can do to
help me become a better version of myself it's greatly appreciated um and and vice versa if I have a little
bit of information to share with you to help you become a better version of yourself even if it's for that day or
that week I wasn't happy to share it that's just here's how how we are how I am how I
that's how every every I don't want everyone should be because some people can't do that but it's just
it's nice to know that there are individuals out there willing to help and and because of those individuals
that helped us and those companies that that helped us along the way makes it easier for us to to want to help others
as well yeah and that that goes that's why we do it and that's why we're trying
to do it so that way you know that next Generation can come in and feel more comfortable with everything yeah and and
it was uh I just read that you know I think it was Jen again actually said that that something to the extent that
it's it's not fair to expect uh or to have a young installer to be a 1099 sub
you got my vote I know you got Jose I agree 100
you either need to get with that high quality established sub who has a
history of training themselves if there's anybody new watching on any of the platforms
get a job if you've gotten some lower uh you know some level of training or you want to be
in flooring get with a very well established a subcontractor that has a
history of training and taking care of their their employee installers
or get a job with a flooring company that hires employee installers until uh
like some of our guys over the years until you feel comfortable and if you want to be a sub once you are you get
not only are you trained in flooring but you learn some business aspects of this you know some of the business aspects of
our industry then maybe turn into a sub if you want or stay as narrowly you know we have plenty of older hourly guys that
work for us too you know um I agree 100 Jen and I had a guy call
the office the other day to talk to me and you know he said that he's been uh watching us talk and he loves it he's a
local guy he's probably I think he was from about 45 minutes away or something like that and he said that what he sees
um a real big lack in the industry is on the bilingual side because we don't have
a lot of bilingual people that are going to be able to teach so what he does is he's that kind of that Medium he's a
work room right to where he gets a lot of the work has the guys do it that don't really speak English well and
a lot of them come and talk to him and they're like you know we we don't want to work directly for you and he's like
you know that's fine and I want to help you out but without that communication uh you know a lot of these
companies will come to him and they'll be like if you're not here communicating with us we don't want to work directly
with them there's too much of a separation there yeah yeah and it's not
they're there's uh we have a sub that's that way too he actually hires
um uh you know guys who don't have the best English you
could talk to them and understand in a normal conversation conversation but if you're getting in the nitty-gritty
details of a project you know how you get it Gets Lost in Translation as they say
um you just can't quite get the point across or they can't quite understand you and he's been extremely valuable
over the years and hiring and training uh bilingual or
sorry like um people who are not bilingual or not uh speak very good
English and uh he's done a great job we need more of that right we need people
we need to bring it to the Forefront really because if you look at it we talk about you know the pricing and stuff and
then a lot of people in the groups always refer to well there's a bunch of illegals that are
doing this over here and you know they they always refer back to that and it's like but if if you just help them out
and make them understand then
and we can bring a lot more people in as well and bridge that you know Gap to
where we need installers but we need those bilingual people here
with us so that way we can actually bridge that Gap because he called me and he's like I'm like you I'm bilingual I'm
like actually I'm not so
one of our our installation managers are bilingual as well and so he's able to
you know even with uh some of our the the the the team leads on these for the
subs like you know the sub owner um you know they can have a little bit of
broken English and get through 99 of stuff but there's still that little some of that detail stuff that our guy has to
jump in and explain in Spanish to them and then it makes sense so you know if
nothing else out of this I realize the need to out of this last piece Daniel I realized the need to execute on
um translating a Spanish version of go Carrera immediately
I've seen I've seen the gears turning when Daniel yeah he probably needs facial expressions are totally change
you're like James they need to do something about that um my mom can translate don't ask don't
ask Daniel to translate it don't ask me to translate I use Google Translate you know what's funny if you talk about
that Daniel and I actually just inquired over to Megan at the chamber about some classes to go and and try to learn
because along with some of the guy education on Excel when he called me right and he he's
talking about it and I'm like it's really a comfort level thing because you go to some of these events and you see
someone sitting by themselves and usually it's someone that you know are they bilingual yes but do they feel
comfortable enough to bring that out and talk to you not really so you got to
kind of go out of your own comfort zone to to go over there and talk to them and kind of bring that out and let them know
that you know everyone is welcome in the industry we're not we're not trying to break everything out
and let them know that we need them right now more than ever and you know what it it doesn't always
get the boo heads put themselves in
uncomfortable position to join that group or or go to that um that event and
they just like the most important person about something that you don't even know until you start talking to Jorge said
that he started talking to you in Spanish and you were just like that I'm like foreign
it happens all the time and it well my wife my wife is Hispanic and and
she uh she you know people come up and just especially if we're at a Mexican
restaurant and they'll start speaking Spanish I said honey you just got to tell them hey I'm offended I'm Indian
and dude
it doesn't work it doesn't work no it doesn't get you through it well I thought it was always funny she's like
oh stop it but anyway well guys we've come to the end of our uh time here it
really flew today we're a little past which I never never mind on great
conversation like this
we're we're definitely going to be revisiting this numerous times right because it's it's going to be a constant
thing in the industry where everyone talks about the installation crisis what can we do where do we have to go and
without the constant conversation it's not going to get anywhere yeah instead
of just like uh like our GCS do to us when there's a problem on a job or the
the production they just send more guys is that the answer yeah always is that
always the answer no it's not always answer sometimes it is but that's how we're approaching the installation
crisis right now send more guys we just need more people yeah that doesn't
always work um you know if we do come back to this conversation I do have I do have a
little story that was shared with me a long time ago about efficiency that really stuck with me for for the years
and Daniel's heard it before um because it's something that you can't forget once you hear it well write it
down uh so what I'm proposing and we'll follow up uh through our media channels and and email to everybody but uh I'm
proposing we get a panelist of people whether it's some people from the SEF I
want to bring in a manufacturing I got a really good friend that was the head of spirit
uh which is the largest um aircraft subcontract uh manufacturing
company I think on the planet but certainly in the United States and the
so I know I could get her on she she under like she's that corporate level
person that's dealt with efficiencies in manufacturing so it'd be fun to have someone outside the industry come in and
talk about efficiencies and some of the detail stuff that they might do get all of our flooring guys in here maybe we
can get like uh you know some some manufacturers maybe president of uh EF
contract will join us or Mohawk or Shaw or one of them let's talk efficiencies
let's talk about how we can improve uh as an industry in that manner and I want to tell everybody thank you for your
contributions today YouTube rock I appreciate your uh
oh you guys are always so fun to talk to so okay
um thanks again and we will uh catch up with you guys next week and um be on the
lookout uh for and I'm sure a lot of people have dropped off now that it's a an hour and seven minutes long but uh if
you're still on here be on the lookout for some communication from us I want to get this panelist together and just have
a talk a a full-on full circle conversation
more stuff on social media too to try and draw the crowd I think it's been working out a little bit is there a way
for um is there a way for for other people to send in questions if they're not able to join the the live podcast or
or not able to be a part of it or a panelist if they're somewhere where they can send some questions that can be
brought up and maybe you can get a list of those together and and try to get some of those answered yeah as the info
I go Carrera right yeah you can do you can do uh
there let me give you some resources it's supported go career info go career
Ashland at go Carrera Paul at go Carrera Daniel ago Carrera these two guys at
Daniel or Jose at m i p f m i dot m i
dot team yes sorry so like
following mi.com too but like I said it's too long it's more efficient go the
short way all right guys it's all about the efficiency all about the efficiency I
appreciate you fellas and and to everybody thank you and we'll talk to you guys next week all right all right
The Huddle - Episode 23 - How Far Out Is Your Labor Booked?
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose will be discussing scheduling, and how busy their labor is in this current climate.
FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome to this weeks
episode of the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
this week's a little bit of a um a little different of a of a um
huddle I'm just I'm hoping that we can get some participation because the question is uh you know how's your
how's your schedule looking how far out are you booked it was pretty easy or pretty uh simple topic but I'm just
curious on uh you know how installers schedules look at this time of the year
and um what kind of backlogs we're all dealing with not not necessarily just as the
company but kind of overall so um
it's a it's a good way we're coming up at the year end here uh I think our next huddle we're going to talk about goals
uh either the next huddle or the Huddle after that talk about how to set you know
real goals and and I know we've done that before but it seems pretty fitting coming up to the end of the year so
so join me as always is Daniel and Jose from preferred flooring out of Michigan
gentlemen how you doing today doing great good
so how's uh how's the uh installation Market schedule in your guys's area do
you know how the uh how your subs are handling is it busy busy is it slowing
down a bit all right we've been slowing down quite a bit um over here in our area
mainly on some of the negotiated work has been a little bit slow right but there's a lot of bits coming across but
the bits don't do us any good right now um and if we weren't winning uh bids a
few months ago then you know then a little bit of a roll right now for that as well but
um that's it's this this time of year is I don't want to say it's always like this
because it's not always like that but this is the time of year where it's a little bit of a low and then all of a
sudden right before the holidays or during the holidays everybody wants everything done yeah your shutdown work do you guys do a
lot of shutdown work like just over the whether it's a school
um restaurants yeah got a couple restaurants that uh are
gonna be happening around the holidays um that's the only time that they can really justify shutting down for a week
um to take care of some loose items um I had some other things scheduled for the holidays but we were able to move
them up and the schools were able to accommodate a schedule sooner than later so uh it actually helped out a lot
awesome well we've uh I'd say that the bid Market seems to
slow down pretty well but if you if you captured the right jobs at the right time in the past you're probably still
busy right now installing and moving materials and all that good jazz so
I mean we're ordering materials and setting jobs up we got a few shut down jobs but overall uh I was just looking
at the schedule in go Carrera that kind of shows where a lot of you know
installer schedules um it appears you know it'll be slowing
down a little bit and uh I think I've hit on this before but
the architectural Billings look to be good through 2023 so commercially it
looks like it's still gonna be somewhat busy I'm you know a major world event could change that so you know be on the
lookout um we're kind of in some weird times from a you know a world
economic and and uh political stance
um so we'll see if that if the uh stats I've heard that the architectural
buildings are are maintaining through 2023 could spell another decent year here so
talk to a few installers and prep for this and um there there are some guys sitting a
little bit more around right now um uh so great time to get some education
classes in what's that great time to get some education classes and some training some Hands-On use your downtime wisely
if you've planned it correctly no doubt that's a great Point
um yeah it'd be a good time if you if you are a little bit slow to join in on some
of the fcica webinars that I know there's uh Ardex is always doing different webinars and I don't know off
the cuff um of some that are coming up but I I do know that you know there's constant
training there and then there's some courses uh CFI is constantly running stuff you can always go to our training
page that stays fairly up to date with new trainings um and you know opportunities for you
guys so I wanted to mention the forward progress um Sim scholarship again uh I'll I'll do
that every every week until we get as a winner but um when does that stop
Ashland is the deadline for so December 15th is the deadline for applications
for that that scholarship so if you guys um you know know anybody or if you've
received the email from scica feel free to forward that on or the email from go
Carrera please forward that on to anybody who may be interested
um outside of Daniel where I
and uh so yeah pass it around and and I know several people have already
um applied for that scholarship so I'm looking forward to uh handing that out
and and hopefully uh starting something uh where we can maybe uh we're pretty
committed to doing that every year uh but hopefully be able to do even maybe a little a little bit more maybe two of
them a year we'll see how it gets uh received by the audience and and by installer so specifically I'd
like to see an installer win this thing um I don't have a lot of control over that but uh the installer group does if
you'll go and apply for the scholarship and you it's free I mean go apply and
win and uh take the opportunity to learn something that you're not going to be taught in
your standard Technical Training this is a lot of those soft skills we've talked about on the Huddle before and it's a
good training we have several cims at our company at our flooring company and
uh I know Daniel's gonna be one and I'm gonna joining we're going to make sure we're
together on that actually eventually I can suppose we'll be over there then I can cheat off of him no I'm just kidding
um right now too so there's going to be a little more
a little more streamlined process I want to say um instead of the the longer drawn-out
version of the educational uh portions so hopefully it turns out well you guys
working on that is that what you said yeah yeah um I've been working on it with Amy Johnson just a little bit I
mean I think uh a little bit behind uh schedule because I'm gonna get some
PowerPoints together and approve but I know that there's uh there's several people working on
um creating a better version of it to expedite the educational portion
that's cool because you know I've read through most of the stuff that our cims
brought back after the you know they they did their three-day
um that's one heck of a program as is so
uh kudos for making it even better so I always got the best on that for sure
that's awesome okay so cim don't forget get on uh Ford
if you've received the email from fcica or go Carrera please forward that on and
let's get as many people uh the opportunity to win this uh this scholarship as possible
that being said um I guess the point of this is you know
we're always talking about how short it is um I'm I'm just curious is
uh do what happens what in your guys opinion what happens if you add six or
seven thousand installers are we still just better off in the busy times than a lot of guys sitting around that's a
controversial statement to bring up but I'm I'm curious your guys's opinion of that we say we're you know six eight ten
thousand short and I believe I believe that stat I actually believe it's going to be way worse than that meaning when
we start aging out I mean we've already started but really then this next five
years you're going to see a big decline I believe but at this point if we were to add say
8 000 installers Across the Nation uh would it just help in the busy times or
is there enough work out there um and and again just this could be a
really short huddle because if we don't get a lot of participation we're not going to have a lot of uh material to
work off of but uh that being said what do you guys think about that do you think that that
um we need like this 8 000 number that I keep hearing and that we've heard over
the last several years or is it a matter of uh we're just used to working so hard
in so many hours in fluorine that we'd actually have a normal life and
that would be okay or uh what's your guys's take
well I still want to say that one of the the
biggest issues is getting the the costs up where they need to be in order to
sustain everything that you need to because there's too many guys out there that
and we we say it constantly right they're they they pretty much just own a
job and they're that's all they're doing so they're not taking care of themselves they're not getting their health care
which means that they're not going to the doctors on a regular basis which means that if they do hire someone
they're hiring them wrong so how do we get the the rates up to the point to
where people can comfortably do this
and do things right at the same time because
I mean Healthcare and this stuff goes hand in hand and well I'll say it again you know I will continually say it
I should have been in the doctors a long time ago you know should have been wearing knee pads from day one like we
have our guys do should have uh we have you know cut resistant gloves on
the Shelf just in case anyone wants to it's it's a lot that goes in it that a
lot of people don't really take into consideration and um some of the
some of the organizations out there keep on pushing like
how much money you can make and throwing out these ridiculous numbers but I mean
that's only gonna if it does bring them in it's only going to take them so far that could be because as soon as you get
the the full scope of kind of what the industry entails it's like man this is
not what I thought it was going to be right so I think I think it's it's sorry to
interrupt but I think it's important that we we what the point you just brought up is is
um worthy of a little deeper dive is we throw these big numbers out but you have
to realize that those are those numbers are really
if you and if you own a job I don't necessarily think that you know you being you owning your job is a bad thing
as long as you're valuing the trainings and your your valuing your what you are
providing and providing that uh at a worthwhile cost and
um you know take into account the education and the the the professionalism if you're acting
like a true professional and you are a professional Floor Covering installer that is
um then you can make a lot of money I think what we're talking about though is
that the organizations take numbers from current
say subcontract uh installers professional guys
but not talking about the amount of time or effort or hours that they are putting
in what I would love to see in this industry is a you know hour more hourly
um even though go Carrera really is built for more of the independent
um but also just making sure that the uh independent Labor uh on the market is
held accountable to Quality expectations education expectations uh those kinds of
things so that the industry can become healthier from a fiscal Health standpoint a financial standpoint and
you mentioned you know like insurance and stuff like that I mean there's
um if you even have a health savings account right an HSA as a as a sub which at the
very least I would I would recommend you do there's a lot of financial benefits to doing that
um but the point is you gotta you gotta make enough money to put it in there right so when they talk these numbers
they're not talking about a lot of the people they're talking to say a subcontractor say yeah I made 350 last
year and the question is did they
is any of that put back is it have they taken care of their do they have health insurance and those kinds of things like
and if so then you really got to take that away from that 350. you know like I could say we did 12 15 million last year
well it's not like I got 15 million dollars in the bank account you know what I mean so
just making the numbers actually realistic and real
um so and then your rally cry Daniel look if you're an employee demand to be
paid on a W-2 and have the same benefits as whoever else is there on payroll at
the company that you're at if you're a 1099 you are your own guy
and you got to take care of yourself and the you got to have the money to do so so make sure you're charging
appropriately right and like you said you know it's not a bad thing to own a job a lot of guys like working just by themselves and
that's totally fine I mean uh even you know in the field
a lot of the time just like you guys just go do your thing and then I'm gonna go do mine over here work by myself
because I just I need that piece and I can understand where where a lot of people would just want to work by
themselves and if that's what you want to do there's definitely you know ways you can make a great living and flooring
is one of them yeah but I still I still echo your your
sediment still take care of yourself and if you're working alone it's going to be a
lot harder on your body but I think one of the biggest plagues and you brought it up it's not it's not
10.99 subcontractor installers it's those subcontractors
hiring people and then paying them is 10.99 that is the piece where you get a third
tier that's where it starts to get really messy and quality control gets lost you know we've had it happen to us
we award a job to to a sub and then they have some other guy do it that works
with them but is a 1099 as well well how many layers of 1099 are we gonna go here
like you know what I'm saying someone's got to have employees I'm happy to we do have in-house
employee benefit installers but we also have Subs I would love for those subs to have
employee installers that they are um somehow incentivize to make sure that
their employees are trained that used to be what the companies did now that the subs are out there so
heavily and have been for 20 you know going on 20 years here they really need to hire employees and
and make sure they're charging enough to make sure that employee can be taken care of so if you have one helper the
helper should be paid on a W-2 it benefits you greatly uh although you
still have to then you have to pay taxes and those kinds of things payroll taxes but it's it's really not that difficult
if you just get an accountant that can help you out a few hundred dollars a year and can
help you you know towed a straight line um so yeah that's where I see
that's a law off subject obviously but uh that's where I see where it's what's new on here you know things play off of
each other yeah when you when you do have employees right because we're focused on how the schedule is right now
and it has a lately it's been essentially hit or miss and I think we've been a little lucky to have some
things fall in our lap but for the pet like last week we had the guys in here and we brought the the training boxes
down and it's like you know we got time you guys are this is this is the material you're gonna work with and
essentially go in this box and what we're looking for is perfection so if you're going to present me with anything
less than perfection let's do it again yeah it's awesome those um
over this time of year is typically uh when we when our training module gets
the most activity as well you know a guy has a day off instead of him going taking PTO if he
wants to uh not use his time off and once to work we'll put him in the module
and and have him you know some of the really good guys will put them with someone else to train
them for the day uh in the module and we'll use some leftover sheet vinyl
whatever and wall tile we've installed everything in that doggone module so
so now's a I guess you know now's a great time to train if you're a
company out there get your employees into talking about kind of um the people that had stuff going on if you look at
the Naf CT they actually have an online course for their uh subfloor and
substrate and it gets really in-depth on some stuff I mean like
I've been doing this for 20 something years right and when we went through this I was like man I never knew this
information like it's things that you the science behind everything that you
wouldn't even think of if you know you're just doing it forever you would actually have to go super
in-depth and it kind of gives you that that background like this material is this way because of this and if you see
this on you know wood that's because it's made this way that means it's going to grow more this way than it would the
other way and it gets very very in-depth and I I would
encourage everyone to take that just for you know it's great knowledge
and which one is that the subfloor and sub-story prep yep
so there's one coming up in Stockton California so I think the way they have it set up
is you actually it's videos online you watch the videos you take the test and
then um the actual in-person stuff is only a one day deal where you go show up and
then that's when you you're able to but you had to have taken the the written portion first correct
yep so it looks like pretty pretty simple just like you said Daniel it's uh sign
up for the certification program and you can just go to nafct
.com and then click on training and go to calendar classes and then you can
click on any of those trainings and I'll tell you right there they're actually at the the first in-person one that they
did um in Ohio right at uh Jason Goldberg's
place and it was real nice to see like
all the different prep manufacturers working with each other knowing that
everyone's getting along you got you know I'm a pay guy mixing stuff in Ardex
bucket and it's just it was great to watch everyone kind of interact that you
think well this is a competitor well just another tool in the toolbox man there's places for everyone out there
and everyone has their favorite but you always need something else because at
some point your favorite is going to be like oh yeah we're not going to cover that yeah well and
they all realize they have each one has some Unique Products so you know there
are certain things sure Knox has that Muppet doesn't and vice versa and Ardex has that no one has and so it's good to
know that the manufacturers work together I got a question for you Daniel can you take the online version and then
go to any of the uh the in person Hands-On I believe so I think
so I I'm not sure that's convenient if it works that way that's really cool so you
can do everything online and then once you're finished with that you can be like oh this one's next month right in
my hometown so that's the one I'm gonna go to so go get your the written portion
done and even if it's several months away from one in your area being
performed do the written one and um
be prepared for your your in-house sorry I was looking at this um
the the different dates yeah there's several on November 16th from
Calhoun Garland Texas and Stockton California so yeah that's it's cool if
if you can go on and and complete the um
complete the online portion of it and then go to the one that's closest to you so
you know a few hours a dead time could be used to learn something new and uh or
or even you know kind of strengthen what you may already know and uh and then get
prepared for you know the sub the substrate and floor prep now I would say
that class also qualifies for a badge and go career which is cool um it
the purpose of badges is you know obviously you may be great at carpet or or or whatever but if you're doing
flashcode she vinyl or she vinyl and or lvt or any of that stuff I want to see that you got a self-leveling floor prep
badge because that badge tells me you've been through a couple of courses teaching you the chemistry which is I
think the piece that you can't it's difficult to learn the chemistry piece
outside of a training an education from the manufacturers
you know unfortunately a lot of people learn the science behind everything after something fails instead of before
um and and that's a that's the sad truth and that's that's a hard pill to swallow but we've been on
on the learning side of that both both sides um yeah
that's what it is right it's better um but hey I wanted to go back to the
the original question and uh the subject when you said uh earlier you said because of these slow times do we really
need eight thousand are we really short 8 000 or whatever number uh installers
and um this is theoretical right and it's just
uh I feel like yes we are short but we're short qualified individuals
not just an installer got Advantage some tools or short qualified people who are
um who are doing quality work because that's what's that's what's disappearing uh is the
20 years 30 years 40 years experience is what we're losing and we're gaining the
two years doing residential care but now I'm going to start my own commercial flooring business you know I mean that's that's I
think that that's what's really watering our industry down and that's what hers is
what will they do to the market if we had 8 000 more qualified installers it
you know part of me thinks I like something what happened where now work is scarce and now we have to compete
against one another but the other part is like I wonder how many businesses how many owners how many uh places aren't
accepting bids or changing uh when they're doing work because they can't find the qualified people how many
people are pushing it off until the next year and it just piles on and piles but they just don't or they just don't bid a
specific type of flooring because they don't have the expertise to do it that would be interesting but you bring up a good point I wonder uh
you know when you talk about uh good quality guys
like I I know we preach training and and education on
here that's because that's how we there's only two ways to learn you either have to have an amazing person
ahead of you that's willing to teach you and so your experience turns into you
learning or you have some experience that you marry with actual training like
the only way you get better at anything is doing it and learning it like education and expertise or or experience
so I guess all that being said yeah you you have
when you when we talk about losing or aging out on some of uh the older
installers you are losing that 20 30 years and you're gaining uh less
I hate to say it less experience less qualified really uh installer group
I guess the question is if it if we did have say 8 000
do supply and demand economics come into it so we're already talking about not getting paid enough in What atmosphere
is it going to take for prices to go up then because if Supply did demand
economics are at play then lower lower Supply on the installer side more demand
in the in the need should equal the higher wages period it should it should
bring that up and then you swap that you get enough installers to do it on a
40-hour week increased competition increase Supply does that drive prices down
I guess it depends on the market and the area right what time of year is it are you going after commercial residential
are you doing educational are you doing health care I mean how about this for an
answer if they've invested in themselves and spent money on training and
certifications and education they're less likely to take a job for super
cheap and drive prices down so if they're highly qualified and trained and
they have a there's a a barrier of Entry I just wish there was a more you know
that's what go career is trying to be is some barrier of Entry that encourages guys to uh guys and gals installers in
general to get trained and certified to increase their Hammer rating to qualify for more work
that's the whole spill right so if that's it then there's the the
installers who are putting forth the money and the time to go pay for a
training be at a training or you know take an online course and then go to a
training um it's the guys that don't have that that
are gonna in my opinion they're gonna drive down the price and I was part of the problem when I first started I I'll
so I know that I know this is how it happens I mean I'd only been doing it for a year probably uh less when well yeah
about I guess it'd be maybe three years total before I went out and started subbing
um I had no business doing that and I I
charged way too less of a prize way too low of a price and the purpose was I wanted to get work and and
put food on the table but at that point I hadn't taken any training I hadn't
gotten any certifications uh so the young Paul Stewart is the problem
with the industry and I think that's where most everyone gets their start if they're starting on
the installation side anyway um unless they are working for uh I mean
they're not in some contract if they're working as an employee or for a union they have um the Union's got a lot of
programs in place just for them and that's awesome um and I don't know too many people that
said I left the union to start my own you know what I mean they're comfortable right um
but it's the Entre entrepreneur's spirit that forces someone's mental to take that
that lateral movement and walk alongside of the people they learned with
um to try to start their own future and unfortunately we did the same thing we we started we didn't know right no
matter how much practice we got how many questions we had um every answer was different we didn't
know what to charge so you start and then you start fighting out we ain't charging enough
yeah maybe maybe we gotta rethink these prices if we get enough people on here
um participating we've weekly we we have a decent audience that we're obviously
trying to grow it here on the Huddle but it would be I would love to have that like
disclosure like transparent conversation with 10 or 15
installers on the Huddle about pricing and and how they're going about it and
a lot of things to factor in there that's actually a good topic right there yeah because we talk to people all
across the U.S about pricing already right in it and people reach out to me on a regular
basis and even you know the local guys and they're like what do you guys get for this what do you get for that and it's like I'm gonna tell them exactly
what we're getting for because that's what I feel it's worth like if you're not making this doing this
stop doing it and some people are like man you don't charge enough and some people are like I
can't believe you're getting that and it's just yeah it's so Regional yeah I mean
and I I I still believe that the the higher
trained you are I know my prices for some of the work after I've after we
get trained or we got certified or or what have you prices did go up I I just
understood the value of what we were providing better after I had gotten
educated so uh I know we preach on it all the time but I'm not stopping we we've got to get
our industry the health of our industry better through training and education
start Bridging the Gap you know with with the the actual stores because a
majority of the guys out there are subcontractors and if we don't start bridging that Gap there's always going
to be that disconnect between even just the salesman and his installers because
I've I've met you know project managers on job sites um for local companies that we have said
no to work before but they get put in a spot and they you know I show up and we're walking around the job and he's
like well what do you think of these prices and I was like yeah we can't do it for that price he's like but I got someone else that says that you know
they'll do carpet tile for two dollars a yard I said why why did you even call me here
and that's that's the disconnect that that people have it's like at some point these stores got a even
talk to the guys and be like listen you're not charging enough for this but
they're too worried about padding their own Pockets because every time you go on the groups and you know
um it's a majority of it is actually retail store owners so they're doing a lot of residential but that's the only
thing they talk about is numbers numbers gotta hit this margin gotta hit that margin and then the only time they bring
up uh installation is when there's an issue and then at that point it's bash
the installers when in reality it's maybe if you would have sold the right
product or if you would have hired the right people you wouldn't be in the situation you are now and and that goes
to like some of the relationships that we have and um extremely transparent like I know that
when we're hired for for the labor portion I understand 100 that they have to make
money and I am by no means trying to pick their back pocket um and and some of this give and take
right like I know that on this project right here I know that I might not be able to recoup what I feel
we've invested in some of the the ads or the unforeseen conditions but I know
that I'll make it up with them on the next one or two so I'm not concerned about that and transparency is Paramount
I just we're all in it to make money we're not in it for practice and if you're working
with a company or a store that understands you guys and your value then
they have no problem sitting down and saying hey I'm in a bad spot at this number or hey
uh can you help me out or hey you know what we did really good on this job here's a little bit extra guys and
that's happened to us and we're like um I'm not gonna say no
yeah they that that's a funny dynamic
um have you ever had a GC call you hey you did a great job guys I'm going to give you an extra XYZ on this contract
that never happens I've never had a GC copy I've never in 20 something years
ever had a GC I've gotten compliments like hey man you guys did a great job thanks for this guy or that guy but
never hey you know I know that's a two hundred thousand dollar job but I'm gonna send you a change order for 10
grand just because you did so good it doesn't work that way for the flooring
company so when it does work that way for a sub um that's a company just showing
appreciation but what I'd say is the the installers in the industry just have to
and I know it's very Regional but you just have to value your your body and your work and what you're
providing and I just find it the guys that are not trained that's how go career ever came to be is when we
started searching all over the nation for installers to do a big national account that we have
um when it first came around in early 2017 you know we learned through hiring guys
all over the nation that if we found a highly certified highly
trained guy he was just better and I'm not just talking about he was just better to deal with uh I'm not saying
that you know there's not the out there's plenty of outliers guys who are not you know uh how do I say this like
formally trained um they learn from their uncle or whatever so they're not formally trained
but they're awesome there's plenty of those guys don't get me wrong I'm just saying that over the course of
going through this for years now and working with installers all over the
nation the guys who value themselves enough to go through the education process and get the trainings and
certifications that matter to them they're just they they value themselves more we had to pay them more but they
also came through for us in a better situation in a better manner than
someone we were maybe taking a shot on and that's how go career came to be
really I mean once you have that realization
then you put together we decided to put together stuff that that took the two main metrics which is experience and
training and make them work together built an algorithm to give a skill score
and that's that's where that all started so you know value yourself enough to charge appropriately is the bottom line
and that's what Daniel was you know it you know stabbing at I mean you didn't stab at it you shot it with a rifle I
mean you required that you know value what I and I'm not saying
everybody should make the same as what you charge Daniel you you you're a you're one everyone
should just make enough so that way they can run the business that they need to run right
um whether it's the one-man deal or if you have a crew of four you need to be able
to uh all make a living and have a little bit of profit at the end of the
day that way when something happens because not if something happens when something happens you need to have that
cushion for later I wonder if a worksheet or a module that would allow
an installer within go career to like put their
their average production uh and
the product and the price that they charge a yard and then we give them some
expense categories to fill out and it shows them how much they have to install on a daily basis to break even
where you actually see this is what your average taxes would be it's actually the
average uh you know pay you know one helper cost you you know just use
uh Excel King so what's that I said you are the Excel
King yeah we could build a module even uh based on Excel honestly but uh it would
just be a web module that that I don't know something like anyone can just go plug whatever they want and yeah
install our health and give a give a a part to what what discipline so sheet
vinyl how much per yard do you charge XYZ uh do you you know one employee at this
amount um and and fill all that out and then here's what your tax expense is gonna
most likely be now we're not financial advisors or accountants here but you
know you can look at the U.S tax code and obviously it's going to change state by state but from a U.S tax code it's
easy enough to say about what bracket you're in and if you're in the six figure bracket in flooring you're going
to be at a 30 to 38 income tax so you know these aren't
the hard numbers to come up with but then you could see well what I would do is show you like man I'm not making if I
hire a guy the right way I'm not making any money at 12 an hour on cheat vinyl
or you know whatever the number is at 18 now I can make some money I can pay up
pay my guy the way I should pay my taxes you know set a little bit aside for
equipment and and future purchases and build a finance a a tool to help guys be
more financially aware just aware that I can't do it at 12
bucks or I can't do it on carpet I can't install carpet at two dollars have a
quality helper pay my taxes pay my insurance pay my gas pay my truck payment and make a profit to take home
to Mama right uh we have Kendall on Facebook over here
and he says that what he's seen in his career
um as a residential carpet installer is that a lot of the guys now are actually
switching over to hardwood and uh click together plank
and that leaves a lot of the new guys that don't know what they're doing coming in and messing a bunch of stuff
up on the carpet side but it's it's like that
everywhere I think because we see it we see people that have done you know
the even the click together Plank and it's supposed to be a DIY thing but they still don't pay attention to
it's none of it's the you know DIY if you're not gonna follow the instructions
and understand how to uh uh accomplish the
like if it says to leave a quarter inch Gap around all uh immovable you know
vertical objects so door frames and things like this and you don't know how to cut correctly
to give yourself a nice quarter inch Gap around there I mean it's it's the simplest things but
it still takes hand skills to do is my point and a lot of the DIY stuff that's posed as
DIY is straight from the manufacturer I love you manufacturers but you guys publish it that way so that more people
will buy your stuff you know they're not trained so if they have a problem on the job it's most
likely coming back on them because they installed it themselves you will definitely because you find fault in
professional flooring installers installation methods
you're definitely going to be able to find fault in a DIY person so your your
exposure your risk is so low when you when you uh when you advertise a product
is DIY and if it goes wrong no skin off the manufacturer's back really
and that's um the specs are very broad the limited
warranty I mean it doesn't matter you if you they were to go through every single
piece installed they would find flaws in a the most professional of installs ever
I mean come on date well that's my whole point is when you when you have a DIY slated
product that when somebody does it DIY the the possibility of it coming back on
the manufacturer is pretty low because I've been involved with claims and had
to defend claims on guys who were highly certified and we did it the right way
but the manufacturer still I mean this is you know if any manufacturers on here
listening I'm sorry but the first the first plug is to what did the installer
do wrong the product failed what did the installer do wrong and and it's not uh a
real transparent investigation you're looking what what install wise was not
done exactly to the T but we don't get to do that to your manufacturing processes we don't get to go in your
manufacturing plant and say what conditions within the manufacturing
plant were not exactly the way they should be during the manufacturing of this product
so long story short is DIY stuff just what I'm getting at it's just it's
pretty low um risk for a manufacturer and the fact is is most DIY products have some level
of complexity that really requires a pro that's just my opinion I've watched too
many products go in click together oh it looks so easy and then a guy doesn't
know how to even cut in the last piece or he started on the wrong side and started with the wrong start of started
off incorrectly and had to take up the whole area and turn it around and I mean Kendall says that he's seen like a lot
of the customers going to buy their stuff from the box store and then calling you to install it too and it's
like that's where as an installer when because uh
Danny Sherman also says you know you gotta you gotta make a living right it's a give and take to a certain degree as
far as like talking to the salesman and stuff and it's like that too if you sell your own product and someone already has
it but you don't have work that's putting work on the table right but you have to that's when you have to
know your numbers and know all right I'm not making money on the product so I'm gonna up my margins on the install side
in order to be able to still have that little bit of a cushion yeah
you got to know your worth and if if you're a company the supply if you're an installer supplies your own material
sometimes you buy from you know one of the distributors or a box store or you buy it from you know Floor Decor or
whatever and you supply materials sometimes that's awesome but you got to
listen to Daniel if you're working labor only you better you got to make up some margins somewhere
um I would I would just say know your worth and
even with that directive that means guys that are not trained and and don't have
certifications have not you know uh put forth that effort there what they know
they're worth uh as is going to be lower than somebody who's invested several thousand dollars and and a lot of hours
in getting certified and trained so I think it's got to start with getting
your education right I know our education system in America gets a lot of you know brow brow beating but
there's a reason you still start your life as soon as you're basically able to walk and communicate in an effective
manner you're going to school and learning things and I think that as soon as you're able
and willing to start your own flooring installation business
you should start with the basics and go get trained get certified and you know
then you know your worth that you will know your worth better by that and like
I always say get to Convention talk to these guys go talk to some other installers who know their worth and uh
you know know where you can charge um realizing the the uh experience Gap
you know some new sheet vinyl guy should not go to Daniel and say hey man how much do you make a yard and or a foot
whichever way and uh try to make that I mean know your true worth and if you're
just getting going and you're highly certified highly trained you may be a little cheaper than someone's got 20 years of experience but that's okay as
long as you're charging appropriately for the effort and um time and money that you've invested
in yourself I feel like if you got I guess what I'm saying I feel like if you got skin in
the game by spending money and getting educated that you're going to be more apt to ask for what you're worth than
somebody who's going to be reluctant to do so because he knows he hasn't been properly trained he knows he hasn't been
properly educated on those systems um the adhesives the the you know
ambient conditions the concrete substrate conditions you know what is a smooth floor what is a flat floor and
understand all that stuff so there's definitely a lot of moving Parts yep all right guys well we're at the end
here that went longer than I was anticipating with the a little bit uh lower participation this week but as
always a great conversation I hope anybody who's on uh you know learn something if you need anything please
reach out um if you have any questions about training or how to get trained you you're free to shoot me an email Paul at
gocarera.com either one of these guys uh they've always been open to helping
installers become better versions of themselves and uh you know better
installers overall so you guys want to plug your uh best way to get in contact with you
just our first name at you know Daniel or Jose at pfmi dot team for the email
uh local installers actually stopped by here uh I don't want to say too often but
enough to where you know anytime they want to come by it's like doors open come we had someone show up
the other day you know um he had a couple brand new guys and him it's him and his dad and his his
guys came in here and just hey come and take a look at what we got going on take a look at how we uh
kind of train the guys the boxes that we use and also per I I told them I said if you
ever want to bring your new guys here you guys don't you know have some down time bring them over dude you guys are
so awesome I mean I don't know how many people are on the call today but if you don't understand
what that is saying he's these could be somewhat potential uh installers for you
but also potential competition and you're trying to make
the industry better by sharing best practices and showing people how to do things that is fantastic it's the only
way to be better as a whole man the only way yeah well guys thanks again for joining me as
always it was a pleasure it's funny how fast an hour goes when you start chatting and and uh you know talking
about things you're passionate about so I uh appreciate you guys every single week and we will see you guys next week
uh three o'clock Central Time on Tuesday come join us on the Huddle and uh
hopefully we can all help each other to uh you know like we talked on this call improve the end of the health of the uh
industry and specifically the installation um portion of the industry so
signing out thank you gentlemen yeah thank you so much all right have a good one see y
The Huddle - Episode 22 - It's More Than Just Skill
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose will be discussing all pieces that go into being a flooring installer, further than just the skill it takes to install flooring.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up everybody Welcome again to the Huddle where we come at you every
Tuesday to discuss maintaining Ford progress in your flooring career
I say flooring career but uh frankly we we talk about any number of things and it's super applicable to uh business in
general it just happens to be we're in a very difficult business called flooring
and uh so there's a lot lot to Garner join in this week
we are talking um as usual with Daniel and Jose of
preferred flooring um gentlemen how's your week start and how's it going
uh same bad Channel
busy busy and in and out of the field for me the past couple weeks um but we
had uh FCI CA Regional today so I rushed back here so I can be on here and he's
probably still in the parking lot oh really I just made it to my destination I backed the trailer in
and turn my computer on nice
well thanks for joining me and I should say all of us and uh always you guys are
a staple and I cannot tell you every week how much I appreciate you
so that being said this week's huddle is uh it's more than just skill
and really what that what the uh follow-up to that is
we're talking more than just technical skill this probably gets a little bit more into mindset and working
um to please a client and please your customer and um one of the reasons that go Carrera
decided to launch the fourth progress scholarship fund for cim is if you just
review the cim documents or if you have any cims that work for you SIM for short
you realize a lot of that's got to do with how you deal with customers and and
clients and and and making sure that you're setting yourself up to try to to
give your client the best experience possible that's what we preach at my company is
providing a superior experience a good experience for the customer and from an installer standpoint you are
in a and I'm not just talking about it or single a now installers but I'm
this is applicable to companies as well but uh from an installer standpoint
you have you have like a really tough job because you got more than just one client right you know on a project
you're trying to satisfy the end user you're also trying to satisfy your
clients client be it the GC or a property management company and then
you're trying to you know uh please your uh flooring company that you may be
working for or if you're anywhere in there A lot of times you know installers have multiple people they have to
um or multiple entities they have to you know take care of them please it's one of the things when I was installing uh
all the time that I was cognizant of and I would always try to be as as cool as I
could be to the owner uh as a you know 25 year old kid that didn't know nothing uh other than how to lay carpet uh I
really started dipping my toes in how to be a professional so one of the things
um that you know I feel is probably well let me put it this way
in in the go career Network you're you're giving kudos for doing a good job and you're giving kudos for
professionalism punctuality dependability attitude and exceptional quality those
are the items that you those are the five metrics that you can actually earn kudos for doing uh going above and
beyond those are the things that I found are most important for installers to display
a high level of uh of um ability and
if you can show up when you're supposed to so that's punctuality
be there uh when you say you're going to be there uh on a given day on a
dependability and punctuality are similar but they're not the same so if I can depend on you is what
requires is required for dependability you could be punctual but also I can you
know you may not be the type of person that could be dependent upon so dependability professionalism
so being a true professional as an installer um
uh a good attitude if you don't like this business I would
encourage you to teach somebody how to do what you're doing and then go do something else but please replace
yourself before you leave um but look we gotta have you're gonna do
this for eight ten hours a day you might as well try to have the best attitude possible and then exceptional quality
so those soft skills as we call them is what I kind of wanted to uh discuss with
you guys today um so how important is it or how much weight do you uh put on a installer for
um you know say dependability and punctuality and I'm talking Subs in
particular because in hourly you uh if they're not there on time or what have you there are some consequences but what
do you what do you guys uh what which ones actually let me ask you this out of those which ones would you would you
take uh in highest regard I'll go ahead and start but um and I'm just going to
add to this uh you know because we we still ourselves right uh we still get
work from other stores we still get work from other companies so I'm going to speak it from that aspect and um
I think it was very important and I learned early on that uh
creating that standard as a subcontractor working for another storage I was representing someone else
and although my shirts might have said preferred flooring when I made a phone call to a client or a general or I
presented myself I was always Jose with so-and-so company it was never Jose with
preferred flooring right and I still do that to this day when I make a phone call I say hey this is Jose with so and
so when I meet them face to face I am wearing Reverend they say hey I thought you were with Vanessa we are we're
representing uh whatever this company but you know this is my company as well um and we try to have that the proper
representation um early and I didn't learn that being able
to communicate um with whomever and user in general uh
the store we're doing work for was extremely huge in building and creating
and maintaining relationships so I I want to say communication for me has been
some of the most important items to have because I mean that's very broad but
extremely important it can cover up a lot of the other
um maybe if you're not as punctual as as
you'd like to be or maybe as you should be if you're a hell of a communicator you can sure cover that up pretty well
hey man I'm running 10 minutes late and if you let them know 30 minutes beforehand that you're running 10
minutes late no one gets mad at you you've been reading my notes is that my how-to notes
well you know how it goes uh you got you got uh the guys that show up late
and they just show up and then you got the guys that'll actually communicate I'm running behind and they'll let you
know a half hour an hour before you get there so you're not waiting on them so that's a good point I don't have that in
the metric we probably should and I I wonder how that would be measured but that's that's a good point because
communication can cover her up and I mean it's very very needed obviously but
it can sure you know help you through some of the other shortfalls what about you Daniel
got a I think you gotta know how to communicate because there's too many times where
guys you know we that that sometimes you know that have worked with us in the past and they don't know how to turn on
and off the professional thing so there's a time and place for everything
so if you can't kind of turn that on and off and know your settings then
you're already kind of falling a little bit behind
so like they're all almost like a uh a facade is
what you mean like they're putting on a professional facade and they don't know when to turn it on and off well they
they don't know how to put on that professional you know they they they don't have that
that switch towards like yeah you can be yourself right but you still have to be professional about it and it's just some
guys they just the the way they talk is the way they talk and there is no
no switching them off from that you know I don't know exactly what
they would quarantine in a very large grocery store and the other thing separating us from the employees and the
customers was a sheet of plastic right no sound proof room or anything like
that and it goes back to the outer sight out of mind thing right like just
because we couldn't see people doesn't mean that they couldn't hear us and uh you know I can't
I'm guilty um I'm not always hearing my professional cat you know I like the
joke wrong I like to make jokes with staff and and sometimes uh sometimes you get that uh unfriendly reminder that hey
we can actually hear you guys or we can see you guys and um I've been guilty of that uh uh of
being on the unprofessional end uh of that and uh you know all you can do is
apologize you know say sorry you know and it's it's hard because construction is there are some pretty raw uh
individuals and individuality and construction when you're installing in the field versus uh you have a lot of
practice in the office setting or the professional setting uh versus the Hands-On setting uh where in the
commercial World sometimes you have a whole building to yourself thousands of square feet sometimes you have you know
200 square feet and you're surrounded by by employees and staff and you you have to learn how to hit that switch and turn
it out and keep it on for the duration of the day that project that week that month
yeah well and I think we have to kind of recognize there's different types or
levels of professionalism I mean UFC fighters the good ones are professionals
but how you know look at the the
industry they're in they're professional within that industry the same guy doesn't necessarily go who's considered
a a true professional and say MMA or UFC fighting fighting uh may not do so good
in a board room or something like I'm not at I'm not even like when I give kudos for professionalism it's usually
not like the guy is gotta be staunchy or you know what I mean like
uptight I'm just talking he knows how to communicate and there's that word again communicate to the end user in a way
that is not disrespectful and is in in engaging the end user uh if they're
talking to them or to the general contractor or dealing with the difficult superintendent or even dealing with the
teammate and and showing them how they want something done as opposed to just
barking at them like that to me is professional it doesn't mean you can't you know you you gotta have your speech
you know dialed in as if you're gonna be standing on stage in front of 10 000
people or something it's more like professional within our industry means I
I you can boil it down boil it down to the kind of the core of that maybe
communication yeah yeah it go it does go a long way up you
know we sometimes get wrapped up being here loading up in the morning and
then someone's expecting us at a certain time and it's a lot better to call them as soon as we leave here when they're 45
minutes away like hey I'm running 10 minutes late so they can be like all right you know that job's just five
minutes away from me I'll just hold off a little bit and before I meet you there rather than have them go there and start
and just wait on you it's it does go a long way I mean I can't say that I've
never done that like just don't even say nothing then you're like five minutes out and they're like dude where you at
been here for like 20 minutes already yeah yeah that comes out to play really
hard when you're dealing with a customer who believes if you're on time you're late and if you're early you're on time
yeah we've got a few of those clients that like well
I want to be hitting the ground running it when when our meeting starts not just walking up to the building so those
those guys have got to get there a little bit earlier um yeah I think it is uh good
communication is kind of the Cornerstone to a lot of this I think it would be hard for you to give
somebody um you know credit for being a professional if they didn't communicate
well uh so there it's a rock in that uh same with attitude if someone's not
communicating with you well it almost comes off as a bad attitude and they may not even have a bad attitude but people
who don't communicate in a effective manner at least doesn't mean you have to
be Mr outgoing but just an effective communication manner um you know I think that helps with
Attitude as well right I mean it's kind of a Cornerstone to a lot of these is this communication piece
well we in our industry and then when we go to a lot of these uh
there are quite a few introverts that do get up there and speak and they're really good communicators right but uh
they they're they're introverts they don't that's it's because that's what their profession is calling for is what
the moment is calling for and then after their they go up and do a
presentation they go back to being themselves and you can be yourself if you're an
introvert extrovert and still communicate well like you said you don't have to be super outgoing you don't have
to be the jokester you don't have to be super technical just be honest be
yourself and communicate your point uh communicate the information
yeah so you know overall I do I just think that you can have we all know that
the installer that's got like crazy good skills and a crazy bad
attitude I know a couple and that's what I'm kind of
you know covertly addressing here is the guys that got all these great skills but
they're lacking the soft skills of the communication the um
and again communication can Bridge a lot of other problems if you're just good at
communicating uh you know any in any given scenario but
it's it's missing those soft skills where you really care about
doing what you say you're going to do and we all struggle with that a bit I mean I know I do I say everybody but I I
should just take that on my own shoulders I was trying to get some company on that but uh I struggle myself
with doing what I say I'm gonna if I say I'm gonna do x y and z
um when I say I have to be cognizant
is why I say I struggle I have to be cognizant of actually getting that on a
calendar and getting that scheduled so that I can make sure to execute upon it I've had to put systems in place that
help me to remember to do those things because a lot of times you'll be having a conversation with someone you say oh
yeah man I'll take care of you on that if you forget it you may have the best intentions but if you forget to do it
then so there's a little more than just doing what you say which is being
Dependable or being you know punctual it's also about having some time management skills I think to make sure
that you don't forget these things or forget to do what you say you're gonna do
because frankly I know I know guys that 90 they they have really good intentions
when they say something and then they forget it
80 guy right I can there's some things that will get to 100 but usually I can get to about 80 percent and then uh you
know my superpower of ADHD kicks in and then get bored and you kind of get sidetracked and then other items kind of
uh take over that and it's a matter like you said it's a matter of controlling it you know I carry around these notebooks
all the time because it is a little bit of a reminder um to review the dates and everything
um yeah kudos to your notebook by the way I make notes for it it's for me it's not for anybody else right it's for me
um I did try doing it on my phone for a while using the the programs on the phone but
um handwriting it and going through those help me out in a ton do I get everything done like no man I'm not
perfect sometimes I take on a little bit too much but um like you said it's just a matter of
exercising that muscle right getting used to following something to completion is
some people have it naturally some people got to work on it well I'm the guy that's got to work on it
just because I I want to do you know I want to be able to
um make people feel that I I care about them when I'm dealing with it
particularly clients and things um but most of that's follow through on
my commitments and so I've got various ways I I use a calendar like Google
Calendar if it's on there I'm in good shape if it's not there's a good chance it's not going to
happen yeah my to-do list doesn't work it's got to be
like scheduled appointment right and I've I've noticed that like in the office it's a lot easier to get off
track and not hit the what you say you're gonna do unless you have something scheduled but
in the field it was a lot easier because you know talking to a GC or you know whoever's on site and saying this is
where we're going to be at the end of the day and then we're essentially working until we hit
that point and not leaving until we do or you know this is where we're going to be at the end of the week and then split
it up you know that way you know what you're doing each day is a lot easier
than come in here and being like it just gets so overwhelming with everything that's going on
and then it it's so much easier to get distracted by the little things when you're in the office than when you're in
the field because you already know like over here you can be like yeah I'll just do that for a minute and then like an
hour goes by be like oh man what was I supposed to do again but when you're in the field it's like you can see exactly
where you're starting an end point is and you know exactly all right I got to
be over there and I want to leave in 45 minutes so that's what I'm gonna do well in the field you get lost a bit in
your work too I mean like it's I focus so much better on the installation I'm
doing I'm not checking my phone I'll go hours and hours and hours and hours without ever even looking at a phone
when I'm installing when I sit at my desk and I'm working on stuff and get an
email and then a text message and then this and then that and the other you got all these distractions you would think
it'd be the you know the opposite being in a controlled environment that we
created I mean it's my office I created the environment and it's full of
distractions you know um whether it's employees coming in hey got a second or an email comes across
like I said or a slack message or whatever I've turned most of my notifications off but I get what you're
saying Daniel it's like you got all these little things that's where I find it hard to really
focus um you know in the field the like you said it's a little easier
from this on this perspective on this piece I should say it's a little easier I think it's part
of when when I'm talking about punctuality and dependability professionalism out there it's just if
you say you're going to be somewhere on a Saturday at noon to meet a bank to
open up the door and do the job you got to be there on Saturday at noon that's
what you said you would do it's those kinds of things where you really damage your reputation if you
let people down too many times and you damage your frankly you damage your reputation with yourself when you say
you're going to do something and you don't do it you're you're losing credit with your
own self um I know that sounds a little odd but one of my mentors uh said that's
probably the most important promise you can keep is are those promises to yourself it bleeds over into how you treat other
people is how you treat yourself so it's a little mindset out there but I have a question too like um and this is Broad
and this can incorporate more people as how much of these distractions and how
much other items are are the cause of
of a lower grade of communication right like like how much outside stress or how
much stress um causes us to not communicate well like what is it like how can we mitigate
that how can we find other things to help our environment whether it's in the
field or in the office at home so that way it doesn't affect our ability to communicate and be at the top of our
game like uh I'm always open to ideas like that because every day is different for everyone for myself included
I think fear is probably the number one killer of communication
just fear of saying something fear of being ridiculed for a question or you as
a as a boss I try to make it a
make it easy for people to come to me to ask questions and to do so I don't want them to feel
like I think they're stupid which I don't they're they're they're all very intelligent people but it's how you
answer a question or deal with someone can make them feel that way so my my point being to this is
fear uh fear of of especially the
introvert people you spoke of earlier Jose I think fear is one of those things to just make people clam up and shut
down I'm gonna I'm an introvert by Nature um that's that's the 100 truth
um I don't have a problem talking to people I don't have a problem you know communicating with people but as an
introvert that really means you know when you're in a crowd of people whether
it's at a convention or whatever are you energized by that and when you
leave it are you energized by all that interaction with other people or are you depleted are you tired and I could be
talking to four or five people in a group for an hour and when I'm done with it you know I'm pretty much exhausted
it's like it takes a lot of effort for me to communicate and be uh outgoing uh
as an introvert not just something I've I've learned about myself self over the years and I've learned to deal with
because I was really pretty shy and quiet um in my earlier adult life as well
um so the communication piece you just
gotta be okay with um getting feedback I think that feedback and and and uh maybe the
consequence of whatever that communication is that's why you don't call the person right that's why you don't that's why some people don't call
you to tell you they're running late because they don't want to hear you say again or
dude I gotta leave in 10 minutes you got to get here now you know whatever that the response is they're just like I'll
get there and then deal with it I guess that's an easier way out is to
what was that saying uh easier to ask for forgiveness than permission yeah yeah
that's true sometimes sometimes some people live and die by that because it's kind of
kind of hard but you know the the inside just gives me it's fairly accurate to the mannerism
um that we've experienced over the years from from people and had some would say
that I'm outgoing and as an outgoing person it it's not that I want to go in the middle of a crowd and talk and say
hey just want to like be the voice that's not me I'll I'll interact with everyone but if everyone's
being quiet I'll still be I'll sit in the corner I'll be quiet too but um I guess that my energy is fueled by
the internet he will not just sit there and be quiet he's just lying to you
um but I do like to interject I like to bring humor to everything and I like to
laugh and I like to have fun because because I truly enjoy what I do no matter what I'm doing well being around
you enough if I could tell you you um you enjoy communication you enjoy uh
conversation with people those are those are all um
you know I think you're a great communicator but how you get someone who is
um maybe not so natural at it I don't know if you're natural if you've just built
up the uh muscle uh for communication but you know someone who's is truly just a
shy person and has some fear of talking people I'm no psychologist I
don't know how to solve that all I can tell you is the value of communication truly outweighs the any of the
consequences in 99 of cases so it's just better to be you know good communicative
and I feel like I've we maybe have swayed here but really what the whole
huddle was intended to be is like these soft skills and communication is that is
one of those you can have great hand skills and still
not get the pay you deserve for those hand skills not get the opportunities
you deserve I know I will tell you a story quick story of a I lost a client
for a while come to find out one of my PMS was just
super difficult uh and I I mean we bent over backwards
for the most part for this client if I go talk to him and uh I asked the
CEO to lunch and this has been several years ago but I was like hey man you know we used to do all your work now I
maybe see a project every a year from you what what is going on and it's like
you guys don't communicate it's hard to get a hold of your guy and at the end of
the day it's just not pleasant I said no no quality problems none of
that he's like no we've never had a problem with your quality I was like
I was really set aside because I always thought like that was the most important thing and I still believe it is but man
isn't communication and professionalism kind of squeezing up there if you can lose a client because they didn't enjoy
working with you someone else made it easier to work with them and maybe they
that other company doesn't even do the same level of quality as we do but they'd rather be there than deal with
someone who's high quality but difficult to deal with so you know those thoughts
the soft skills and the soft skills are a true thing you will you can win and
lose work depending upon your level of uh ability in that Arena
so I I I do like my two sets I do like debut and that might might
never have viewed it like that either right because you you kind of rely on
your your hard skills your your Hands-On ability to help sustain some of your
clients uh but yeah you're right I guess uh the same thing for me
I never really looked at it like that if if I'm not communicating if I'm not communicating well with someone else
they have every right to not like that and go elsewhere um easier communication if you're easy
if you're making their life hell or if it's just not pleasant to deal with you the clients who realize like I got to do
this stuff for eight hours and 10 hours a day like I said earlier you should enjoy it well those clients that realize
that they're like you're no fun to work with man you're hard if you're if you're
difficult to work with but have the best skill you're still not recognizing your
potential I think that was really what I wanted to like make sure is clear you
can be wonderful from a technical install perspective but
if you're difficult to deal with and not pleasant and you know don't do
what you say all those things you're not realizing the potential that you have to to in earning money in in
earning um respect and in influence and your influence in the industry you can kind
of flip that right because in in the groups there's a lot of talk about customers that are horrible to deal with
and how they hate doing that but then you kind of got to look at that you know
with yourself too because sometimes the cus like you said the customers don't want to deal with you because you're
difficult to deal with it's not it goes both ways it's not just always the customer we've had you know calls
here at the office to where you know I'll answer and they'll be like you're like the sixth person I've called and
the only one that has answered the phone yeah that's a big thing these days
especially at the office but yeah you know what's interesting you bring up the Facebook groups on that is
never do I see in those groups like guys I'm having problems connecting with my
customers I've had you know I constantly have bad customers or I have customers
that are difficult to deal with maybe it's me what are some tips what
are some tricks if if it's always happening to you guys there's a common
denominator there called you not every customer is hard to deal with
they're certainly difficult I mean I got some that are hard to deal with and I just got to Barrel through it I also
have great ones uh if all I experienced was bad
um customer interactions it's probably I probably need to look at myself and that introspective uh attitude could go a
long way so that's a good point Daniel did that I also wonder like um these
soft skills I wonder at uh isn't there a way to gauge it like at what level are you expected to have this
certain set of soft skills right from entry level all the way to management
um like is is there is there any way to to template expectations
I don't know about expectations um I could say that I think it's like
walking for a toddler or for an infant you you start learning as early as
possible and you only get better as you do practice
like if you're brand new in this industry focus on your communication focus on
some of the you know professionalism focus on your ability to
um to um you know influence people focus on what
you can control and then keep keep getting better just
like an infant walking it's going to take you know they they just get started they don't know what the hell they're
doing but they don't just keep I want to keep going and as you go uh your
communication is going to you're going to hone that skill yeah on Facebook Eduardo actually said that a while ago
you know and I think it was when you were talking about uh like getting up in front of people and
and talking and stuff right but it all goes together it's the more you do it the more practice you get at it the
better you're gonna be so if you you have to start somewhere so just start you know baby stuff start with the
customers and then work up to getting in front of that crowd and you know it's it's not for everyone it's not for me I
I realize that I still do it but yeah well and communication you know
it's got different levels I mean you don't have to be a public speaker to be a good communicator and uh the other
soft skills that I think that are you know so important in this industry like I said dependability and punctuality are
two of my biggest that's that's not you know what it takes
is just communicating on a consistent manner uh getting used to what are those
triggers when you do need to make a phone call um and then just not being scared to make the phone call you don't need to be
an extrovert to communicate like I said you know and you don't even need to be some extrovert to be outgoing
um introverts can talk and and do plenty of stuff and and public speak as well
but these other skills they don't they I call them soft skills but it's not a
skill to honor what you say I'm gonna be there Tuesday at 7 00 a.m to be there
Tuesday at 7 A.M and then use your communication if you're not going to make it to buffer
your time but that's what I I'm glad you brought it up uh Jose is because you know communication which we don't have
as a metric in the Kudo system but it's a good it's a good way to get
yourself out of um it's a good way to get yourself a lot of opportunity and keep yourself out of a
lot of trouble if you're a good communicator and
hold you hold your holders if you're able to make those phone calls and say hey I'm running
behind and like beginning of the meeting today
it happens to me a lot either I'm 10 minutes late or I have a client that's 10 minutes late or a conversation during
a meeting lasts a little bit longer but I still have three other places to go and now I'm 15 minutes behind uh put me
in a worse spot for traffic and I do have to call those people or
um maybe in the middle of the meeting of the sit down I'll shoot out a text message because that's a lot of
communication through here now too like hey just to give you a heads up we're running a little bit longer than expected I am going to be if I know I'm
going to be at least 10 minutes late I'm gonna put 15 or 20 minutes on there and give me a little bit of time because no
Theory Rob maybe the wrong mindset but now if I'm earlier than the 15 minutes that I said I was going to be late if I
show up at seven minutes later than original time no Eddie I'm early enough yeah
um I mean and remember this is this is uh progress not Perfection there I I'm
certainly not sitting here in front of anybody saying I'm the best Communicator in the world that
you know never runs late or day I'm I I stack my schedule pretty hard uh I just
try to text or communicate and uh you know specifically if I'm dealing with
clients I mean you gotta show them their respect so yeah it's kind of the Catalyst um nice
conversation around communication it's kind of the Catalyst and the the protector of the other soft skills kind
of in my in my view after this conversation do you guys got any any
recommendations on any books or or um any audiobooks that would help
someone have more insight on becoming better at these soft skills and communicating
um you know the the only book that comes straight to mind is seven habits of highly effective people uh that's a
really good book I actually write that down I think it's Steven Covey if I remember
right yeah
I really like listening to audiobooks man I I don't know how or why I seem to
be the only time that I can fish supplement when I'm zoning out well I mean you probably as much as you're in
your truck driving around if you're listening to audiobooks you probably have a master's degree in whatever you're listening to
I'm all over the board the equivalent of a master's degree oh yeah I mean you
could have half a masters and how to run a softball league and then half a masters and run a pornography
half a masters in raising children cooking barbecue you know I don't know
No Doubt all right guys well thanks uh for coming on this week I know it's a little bit
shorter not much but um it's interesting how some of our conversations which way they go I
actually learned more than and then uh you know I was anticipating just kind of
throwing out there these soft skills and having a discussion but you know I don't even have communication on that list and
it's pretty clear it's like the Catalyst everything but what a way that that these things
kind of you know what you learn I you know
you can be the moderator or the the the head guy at anything and sit there and learn if you just want to if you just
have open air so uh learned something today so I want to thank you two for joining me and and uh
having a good conversation uh we'll see you next week and uh you guys have a
great week thank you brother all right guys thank you guys all right bye
The Huddle - Episode 21 - Would you want your kid in the Flooring Industry?
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose and John discuss whether or not they would want their kids to be a part of the flooring industry, and what changes have impacted their opinions.
FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
here we are what's up everybody what's up everybody and welcome to this week's huddle we come at you every Tuesday
afternoon at three o'clock to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
um really we we touch on a lot of subjects that are uh uh flooring related
but also just general business related topics as well join me as always is Daniel and I
believe Jose is going to be joining us here in a bit and um this week's topic uh Falls in line with
all of our discussions um in regards to
bringing new people in and um you know trying to get new people
started in the flooring industry and so this week's topic is would you want your kid in the flooring industry
so would you know basically we all uh
we all have been in it a while maybe and now you're you got children and would
you want them in this industry so the reason I asked this question is and
above and beyond just the fact that it it plays very well with
uh previous discussions um but I've I've noticed a lot of smaller
flooring business owners who whose children don't want anything to do with it so maybe the question should be
would you want your flooring your kid in flooring industry and do they want to be
but um for the topic of this week would you want your kid in the your child to uh
get in the business so I guess that's a it's a question so I'd
love participation from the audience anybody who's on uh that can either tell
a story about their child uh being in flooring um uh or answer the question and maybe
follow that up with why and and what you think
um the negatives are that would want you as a parent to do not possibly want your
child in fluorine kind of stems from a lot of football players professional football players won't let their own
children play football and so that thought came to me I wonder what what a flooring a lifetime flooring guy would
say about having their their child in the flooring business uh this is probably more geared towards
installing although the business in general but would you want your kid to be a flooring installer so
that is the question on the table I will I would love to hear Daniel first
um get your your uh input okay
I don't know if Ashland's there but my brother's hey Ashley can we get Jose on please
um I tried to promote him to a panelist it declined or he declined the promotion and then left Nicole okay okay
well Daniel for now it's you and me hopefully uh Jose joins and Ashland can
um patch him in so um let's start off with you I also am up in
my Kansas City office today and uh I have uh my manager up here my project
executive at this location uh who may join us um might jump in the frame here and I
got John over here too I think it might be beneficial for him to come in here because his kid is actually in the
industry as well um well let's bring him in and let's let's have you guys start the conversation off with one of you
answering the question and and following up with the why okay I'll start off I I always tell
everyone that uh with the way the industry is right now I would not have
my kids join the industry um especially
not not necessarily like on the sales side or anything but on the installation side because of
it's a it's an uphill battle with the installation side right now you know fighting stores trying to get paid what
I wanna you would want to say what we think we're Worth right but it's really what we are worth
um a lot of the conversations that we have have to deal with you know not
we we need to stop saying I can't afford to do this and start saying that I can't afford not to
and that's where a lot of the the stores that you work for put you they put you
in that place where you're like I can't afford to do this and I can't afford to do that and they essentially bully you
into a spot to where you know you're scared to say no to work because they're going to stop feeding you and then once
they stop feeding you you think that you're gonna end up going under right away and there there's nowhere else for
you to go I mean I felt like that for for a while you know you're dealing with huge
companies and every single day pretty much they have something for you and then you know if I
end up saying no what's gonna happen well we started saying no and just like we
thought you know they essentially cut us off so
um it was hard and you know the industry is is still hard like that and I don't want
my kids to be put in that same position that I was in especially right now with
I mean we've talked about my body I'm 35 years old and just on Saturday my hip
went out and it was my good hip so now I have zero good hips
yeah so it's tough on the body we know that although things have gotten a lot better
uh I think uh from a uh you know you
know personal uh cut I want to say safety for lack of a
better word like knee pads and things like that so your personal protection items that are available to you and
fluorine are a lot better today than the The Old Rugged knee pads we used to use but I
um something that struck me is you talked about a store basically
it sounds like uh exuding controls and power over you as a installer and when
you started to say no or maybe negotiate your pricing
um you started to get blackballed at that particular store is that accurate
yeah yeah basically it's like uh you're they gonna do it for what we tell you
you're that we're paying you or pretty much you can find some somewhere else to
go either do it or pound sand huh yeah foreign
little plug for gold Carrera here right because I've I've used the software and
um you know we got pretty in depth with it when we went in to visit you and that's one of the best aspects of it is the negotiating part and
that's something that a lot of these guys don't realize that they have is the power to negotiate
and especially in numbers right like if you're if you're part of go Carrera and
you're part of um you know a couple thousand other installers and
if you get saturation in certain areas where installers can stand up for themselves and I'm a flooring store I'm
a commercial flooring company and I want the guys to stand up for themselves and
uh get more money from the market uh I've seen an interesting post on
Facebook maybe it was yesterday where a guy was discussed talking about you know
not being paid what he what he wants and what he needs to be paid from a store and then some other people chimed in and
said you know well stores shouldn't make any money off of my labor uh
the to address that stores should companies
should make money on expenses if some If You're expending Something Out in a major way
in a and you're the one as a company waiting for that money to come through now if installers from the now this is a
commercial situation from a commercial flooring company if the installers wanted to wait
the 60 to 90 days to get paid like I have to then okay then you you probably
can make a heck of a lot more if you want to make those terms with a flooring company but the fact that we pay out every
single week and we wait for the money to come through on that labor performed
from the contractor and often it's 60 to 90 days that is we are financing that and you
have to make a profit on anything that you're you're expending or financing
that being said the real problem is installers get on Facebook and and I'm sorry but
that's what it is they don't do anything about it there's there there's probably more plug-in go career than I've done on
this on the podcast but fact is if they get on go Carrera in in a meaningful way
from in in given areas you know Geographic areas if if you if you're on
the go career Network negotiate your pricing between no matter what company you work for you you make sure you're
getting the you're requesting you're negotiating that price up that changes
the market the installer has the power to change the market if they gather together and
do it if you're negotiating what are the numbers and your your your prices
say you're getting paid four dollars a yard for carpet and you want to get paid five these are
just for example if you will if you go to both come to
every company that you work for and you demand five eventually the price and
other installers do the same thing eventually that price is you may have to eat a little dirt and get to 450 and
then five but eventually that will move up the installers have to band together
for that to happen and you have to have a platform that can band you together and that is go career so that's my
that's my pitch and get together band together and have a common a common goal
of increasing the labor because here's the dirty Secret flooring companies make more money we do
it on a percentage basis so if I make 10 percent on everything I expend for
example and my labor cost is four dollars I make more money if I if my
labor cost is five six seven dollars if I'm making ten percent on it so if the
mark labor market and this also goes to go Carrera with the hammer rating making sure that a
six-month guy that's going to go in and and undercut everybody you know that guy that was was with a
mechanic for six months and then went out and started his own thing he's not going to have a hammer rating worth a
darn and he should he's not going to get much work in the go career system unless he goes and increases his experience and
his education as he does that his hammer rating will increase
then he's in the go career system you're only competing with the same level of
hammer rated person no matter what so the the installer does have the power to
make some change if they will band together and and make and create positive change you know I I'll announce
it here we're going to have a convention for go Carrera installers where we can talk about these Concepts and where we
can Implement them out in the marketplace that will I'm going to try like hell to
make uh our first convention uh be 2023 now I don't know if I'm gonna be able to
pull that off but that's going to be my goal then we can band together as an industry at the level where it matters
the most I don't care how good of a Salesman I am if I can't get the stuff installed in a
good in the proper manner and please the client it doesn't matter
I have to get it installed there's no value to the flooring until it's on the floor
installed correctly so it doesn't the the the change has to
happen at the installer level and with so many installers being subcontractors
similar to your your article Daniel where you talked about in companies
hiring and 1099 employees which is a misnomer that doesn't exist there's no
such thing you're either an employee or you're a subcontractor that's it if
you're an employee you are paid on a W-2 you get taxes taken out you are your
expenses as it relates to the the business are covered if you're a 1099 subcontractor
you are responsible for all that stuff and the lack of control from the company is key for that relationship to work a
lot of what I was talking about with you know why I wouldn't want my kids to do it kind of ties back into what you were
just talking about and it's there's too many people out there that aren't doing it that way which make the prices lower
and then they are uneducated so they think that they have to just accept those rates and
there's no way to get out of it which in turn makes them
hire other people on a 1099 basis who don't know what they're doing that go
out risk it and it's just a vicious and it dry it dry it keeps the price down
that's why yeah I got paid 275 to three dollars a yard
to lay carpet back in 95. today the market pays about four dollars
in my area 350 to 4. that is not an increase
man the guys who are willing to work for that now I get it we have some jobs that
are you know huge big open department stores and you know a guy can still make
several thousand dollars in a day but my point is not on a project by project
basis but as an industry from the installer level if you're going to come to me and want
four dollars and then go down the street to my competitor and charge them three dollars then you're breaking the you're
breaking the the system you have to have
Subs need to understand you you have to cover your costs and you have to cover
expenses and if you have somebody working for you as a sub and you got a Helper and you're paying them 10.99
that's not fair either now this guy who's just in the industry is experiencing the industry as a 1099
person for another sub and they're getting paid even less than that sub
gets paid from the store that's where all this gets mixed up subcontractors please if you're gonna
hire people to work for you make them your employee get the appropriate
Insurance get get operate as a business and then charge appropriately so that
you can cover those expenses and then turn still turn a profit at the end of the year so that got off onto a bit of a
rant you guys hear me uh yeah we can't see you anymore but we
can hear you so the question on the table uh yeah I mean the industry's messed up uh in a
lot of ways from a labor perspective and um so you that's that's your
your stance uh can you introduce the gentleman with you Dave this is John Curtis this is all right
project coordinator and his son actually works here as well
so I mean he he has that that other side of it to where he's already brought his kid in he's a few years in now right a
couple years yeah so tell us about that John well
so I was thinking about objectively if I had it the chance to go back and kind of
steer him and uh um something else I'm I might do that but
for me I think it was a good fit in my situation with my sons because he he had
he didn't have very much Direction he's working at a restaurant and I didn't want I didn't want that life for him I
was trying to get him and geared into the trades he was in a trade school in high school for uh
HVAC for a technician for a technical program for that and he just didn't
really like that and then one summer he came to work with me and and I think it was probably the easy way out for
him he was just kind of well this is easy to work for my dad I
can I can learn everything from him and I don't really have to go put myself out
there and go venture out don't have to go to interviews and stuff you don't have to go to interviews or anything
like that so and don't tell the story that you told me about the gentleman that that kind of
mentioned something negative derogatory to reach towards you that kind of helped push that envelope too because I love
that story that you told me about about that GC oh we're working on a school out at a
school on the Lakeshore and I was just sent there just to uh just install some
vinyl base or something something got missed and it wasn't my job they sent they sent me and my son there to install
vinyl base well it's a huge School we're only there for a day we're waiting for the GC outside and he sees he sees my
son and he's like oh well well shouldn't you be in shouldn't you be in college and he's just like no and he's like well
what do you want to do with with your life you know just go ahead and install vinyl base all for your for your entire
life and you know the yeah I got you got my son pretty upset and I I got
pretty mad at him too a little bit and I'm just like we if everybody goes to college we're
not going to have anybody to build our buildings and to that right there we need we need
people we need guys to put vinyl base on in this world not every weekend sit and
go to college and do that and do that life so it's for my son in my situation
I feel good about it and where he's at um he's learning he's interested in it
he wants to stay with it um could there be more more motivation and more interest yes but he's also a fresh
21 so he's got he's got a lot ahead of him I didn't have the the same motivation I do
now when I was 21 either so yeah I didn't know that would help me my wife is also in
Flores too so I mean we can we can foster his development and I can't answer almost every damn question that
he has so selfishly I like that he's in floors because I can help him and Foster him
yeah I mean you're in a unique scenario you're with a good company and uh you
have the ability to kind of guide the experience of his development and
um you know what Daniel's sore spot is from being out in the in the weeds of it
with multiple different you know companies uh trying to make things work uh I have a similar story
John when I was uh installing uh this came from a school teacher we were doing
a middle school and we were doing a hallway of VCT had some complicated uh patterns in it some
waves and some circles and you know different designs uh in this floor and I
got to go use the bathroom and so we're doing the end of the haul I walked past a classroom at the beginning of the hall
right off the commons area getting ready to go to the bathroom and I hear the teacher tell her students something to
the extent of you know you guys want it you guys keep it up you're gonna end up
like those guys out there talking about me and my crew and
so and half the students were like all right it was like it was like a real kick in the teeth right and
um because actually the pattern took a lot of mathematics to to work out and
make uh land where the the architect showed it on their drawings and so it
took a lot of of the skills and and and Mathematics that you learn in school but
this idea that you got to go to college to be worthwhile is a flawed idea absolutely we do need people to do
flooring and electrical and build our buildings and maintain our facilities and put up our high lines and build our
roads and build our cars and change our oil those are all services now that
doesn't mean they need to make dick I'm sorry for the language in this podcast I've thrown a few uh people
seriously like they they need to make that just because they're doing a service-based work doesn't mean that it
should not pay well um so my my side of this is uh from the kids
perspective is my son was imploring he he started working in the Summers when he was 13 in the warehouse when he was
able to get on job sites we put him with guys to learn um would I have him in flooring
I can say that I would not be disappointed one bit if he went and if
he stayed in flooring now he's went down a different path uh but when he was a
freshman in in college he was able to get a job installing
floors now they subbed to him it was a subcontract Arrangement and he was able
to do some student housing and get paid 300 bucks per unit that he laid the
vinyl in and he'd get one uh he'd definitely get one or two units done a
week and sometimes three so when you're a freshman in college and you can make 900 bucks in a week
I think that's pretty damn good right and we got to do that on a part-time basis right uh Jimmy says you know you
talk about not everyone is meant for college but he he makes a point here he says that he'd love for his sons to be
involved in the business but in his opinion business classes are a must if you're
going to try and do the the you know the independent route
and you know he says that you know CFI training and FCF you know a combination
of those would be really beneficial for for people starting out and then uh Roy
Lewis says nothing beats a trade because you can always provide and that kind of
ties into what you just said like he went to college he already knew what he was doing so he was able to start
working right away yeah because see we made a deal um I would pay for college and
but if he stayed at the dorm then it's it's covered well he wanted to stay with his buddies and
um K-State is where he went and as a freshman you don't you do not have to be
in dorms at K-State and so he from a from freshman from kickoff uh as a
college kid had to pay his own rent had to buy his own gasoline and things
like that and so he had to he had to make money and uh he had a trade that he
had learned enough that he could lay simple flooring in a simple scenario student housing so unit
by unit and um it was flexible which is what he needed
during college and he was able to to for the first year be able to to make a
decent income while he was in college and uh I'm thankful for that I think
that if I had it to do over I do I I don't have any regrets on that on him
learning the flooring trade um right now uh I I had a conversation with
him last week he started a new job at an excavation company and uh he's like he said something to
the extent the conversation went like well if I need to make an extra thousand bucks I can still do it
right so he could still do somebody's kitchen uh or or living room and and some luxury
vinyl tile or something and still make a thousand dollars over a weekend if he
needed some extra cash so from that perspective I love flooring I love the
fact that if you if you had to you can still go out get dirty and and
make a living uh put food on the table so um I do like that part Daniel uh
mentioned about uh his perspective on this Jose so what what's your what's
your thoughts so um just like Daniel years ago like I
couldn't imagine my son putting his body through what I put my body through and
um I couldn't imagine doing that um as my son gets a little bit older uh he
he's turning into um a child that's a little bit built a little bit different mentally right like
sports and all that he loves that but I can see where mindset has shifted on my part
um I'm not an advocate I'm not a good advocate for higher education I do believe that a trade is something that
no one can take that away from you no matter what trade it is and over the
past you know a few years I I've come to realize that if my son
wants to to do flooring I'm going to back him up no matter what if he wants to get into the industry I'm going to
back him no matter what whether it's on his knees installing or whether it's uh you know taking over uh something that
maybe you know maybe in the future we built something that he could take over if it's possible and even if he didn't he can still come
and work as he gets older and learn to trade um because it's been I've noticed that
a flooring guy a good flooring guy who's well versed can also do drywall pretty
well can also do electrical pretty well can also do framing can also do plumbing
because not only do we know how to read the schematics and the prints is our work is extremely detailed and because
of those extreme details that we have to follow the other details that go along all these other trades by going by a
book reading off the print um although they have a lot of rules the details and the Hands-On are pretty easy
to follow and I I believe that a flooring installer or flooring um artist
and if you will could conform a little bit and and adjust and pick that up
um and as far as higher education being involved if he did want to go to college I would
definitely push business class for him because no matter what I think business class can
can help if you use the new trades or if he chooses not to go in the trades that would help no matter what he does in life because he'll have a better
business and translate to a lot more yes they can translate to a lot more if you have a better understanding of the
inner workings of how a business operates um do I believe that my son is going to
be motivated and be an entrepreneur yes do I believe that he can work for
himself yes do I know if he's going to I have no idea it's going to be I mean would you
want would you want him to be a flooring installer
if I had to say yes right now my answer would be yes because I'm looking down the road right down the road in 10 15
years when he's when he's uh as he actually be out of high school he's nine years old now he's gonna be ten so
whatever eight years I have a feeling that
Craftsmen no matter what trade are going to be worth their weight in gold here pretty soon because of how many are
falling off yeah we will if I had to prep him for the future I would say the
future is in in the trains because
we're falling off at a really fast rate and it's gonna be hard to find someone to fill that void and if I can give them
a head start on helping or having him help me learn um while I'm teaching him I think he'll
have a decent resume at 18 19 20 years old whether he chooses to go to college
or not um and that's that's my thoughts if I had to make a decision today my answer would
be yes and that's my basis you know I watched a uh video about
buying businesses um and
you know different types of opportunities out there and
there's this lady her name is name her name is Cody Sanchez she's on YouTube
and she does these different business videos successful entrepreneur uh she buys dirty
businesses as she says like trade businesses and she said because there's
been such an assault on that those those that industry as a whole the trade
industry that it it can only go down it's like a stock it can only go down for so long if it's
a good quality stock it's going to end up changing direction and going up and
the same will happen with our trade we sitting on this call have agreed that
we we want to help be a catalyst to that change um you know I think that when pay gets
up there it helps with the body breaking down because you're not working yourself to death to make a living wage
right so I think that helps if we can get the prices up and Jerry Livingston
says but Subs aren't charging a rate they are asking what we pay I I'm taking
you know obviously store here he says they are giving all the control over to
the stores so Subs quit begging know your words just call somebody and
be patient I mean it does take a little bit of time to change it change the pay if you'll work with your stores that the
stores that you work with if you'll work with them in increasing the pay and say
I really even if you take a job and I'm just going to use four bucks because that's what I've been using if you take
a job for four dollars a square foot if you say look I need this up to four
and a quarter by June I mean and stick to it your store will start to do that
especially in the go career system where you have a good Hammer rating you got good Kudos us I have paid more when I
see somebody negotiate the price and they got a great hammer rating and a and good Kudos uh in our system
of course I mean the guy offers a lot less risk because he does the job so
well so with less risk more pay I can still make the same amount of profits I
don't have punch lists I don't have those things that I have to go through so I think he's making a good point that
if Subs are going to con and he's he's he's proven the point that I made earlier that it is in the installer's
hands to make the change we have a platform where you can band together and go Carrera outside that
get to Convention get involved with
um you know the fcef get involved with ntca
get involved whichever field you're in tile or resilient or whatever get involved with CFI it doesn't even matter
just get involved get involved yeah and make meaningful change in your career by
standing up for the value that you're per that you're providing don't get on
Facebook and just about it like actually do something and that's the other thing you just said
it too that go ahead David uh it's you know when people do go on
Facebook and they have questions don't bash them man we all started somewhere help someone out
yeah don't make it so hard on the new guys either when they come into the industry don't don't beat them up like
uh I was I was treated pretty poorly as a as a uh as a hourly first time when I
first got into flooring you know getting the and I'm not talking about hey go get
the tile stretcher type um jokes just I'm talking more like
like uh just being mean and setting you up for
failure it was like 100 blades at you uh well I'll tell you a quick Story the
worst thing that happened to me I get kicked off of a job and I've only been doing the the job for maybe two weeks or
less uh the guys I was working with at the company that they were the mechanics
I was a helper they gave me a broom and said go sweep out that that big room
over there I didn't know no better well it was the sanctuary and it had all
this wood all finished all beautiful everywhere on the ceiling
these beams going across what do I do I go in there and just start pushing this broom start throwing it dust was going
everywhere had no idea about dust control I just two weeks in the business
the GC comes in and just screams at me like I was the biggest POS
on the planet and kicked me off his job site the guys are in the back just
laughing at me they set me up on the whole thing don't do that I'm lucky
I'm still here and uh sitting on a flooring podcast talking about flooring because I almost I almost exited right
then uh many more things that have come across as when you take when you have a trade you can easily obtain this is from
uh Jorge Ortega or or time it says you can make
Ortega's that's that's not a bad one obtain larger sums of money versus
working by the hour for someone those big chunks go a long way as long as you keep your tools and get the job done I
think he's talking about reinvesting back into your yourself you do make that money uh at least that's what I take
from it and and uh he's got a point you you can make a lot more money as a as a
sub but if you're doing it right and you're paying your guys on a W-2 and you
have an accountant and you're paying your taxes and you're taking care of business because you are a business owner
then and you're charging appropriately to cover all that and still turn a profit then yes I agree 100 percent
and then Jerry says again he says if you charge me more I will pass that on to the customer I need I need to charge my
customer money so I can pay the installer what they are worth so yes I I think that's kind of playing off
of what I imagine Facebook post was yeah uh uh stores do make money on your
labor we should make money on your labor and uh to to suggest otherwise is
um not that would be um similar to The GC not making any
money on the flooring uh yeah it's just not smart business like that it's not smart business to
think and I'm sorry to interrupt Paul um but if I were if I were to tell you
that at one point in my career that that didn't come out of my mouth and you know
it wasn't like blanketing it overall right but it was like you know for example it was on a project
um no we we sat down at a meeting after getting or getting a AWA sign for prep
after prep after prep like hey there's so much unforeseen stuff here you know 270 something hours to be to get closer
and then they said oh we're not going to pay him for it and we sat down in a meeting uh
with the owners and the the gentleman the salesman that hired us for it and he flat out stood out stood up for us and
uh and Mr Tim Johnson he's a good guy good friend of mine to this day even
though we don't talk as much as we should but he stood up for us and advocated for us and said this isn't
right you guys why don't we lose on our margins on the sales to replenish what they spent on it
right but they there was more to it than that and this is it has come out after the fact but that right there made me
realize that you know not every job is going to be profitable for the store or the installer but you
can find common ground and meet in the middle right because your values have to have to have to match up and then we we
no longer do work for for that store uh we probably could um but we just choose not to and I'm
still friends with people that work out of there and I'm still I want to say I'm still friends with the owner right we're
just just it doesn't work for us um a couple a month down the road we found out that the company we did the
work for they did the work for and then we were subbed for it actually went bankrupt so
it's not that they didn't want to pay us right it's just instead of going through all the hassle of
explaining everything they knew that they were going to get paid regardless anyway so they just didn't have the funds but if that
conversation was approached in a different way then my mindset would have been different to that whole thing and maybe our relationship would be
different to this day um but you make another good point I mean the fact uh you know when we're
talking about should a store make profit on their Labor uh
certainly if you consider the risk factor of not
being paid in the time frame of paid that again supports the fact that the
stores have to charge appropriately for the labor now if
you're working for a store that's charging 15 and paying you two that's your fault man that's right like so
um that would be a little ridiculous uh I don't know if I'd be able to work for
anybody finding out they did that but what Jerry said too is is the the
increase does get passed on right so what we prided ourselves on when we're
you know coming from the labor only is we were actually able to create repeat customers
um for these stories that we worked on and that's all negotiated work right it wasn't that we had to bid on things and
maybe some of it was in through the bid Market but we helped them create
um the repeat customers so that way they didn't have to fight against anybody else and it was because we were going to
be on the project hey you know what these are the numbers this is preferred it's going to be on the project for you
um you know that you know this is their Niche this is their specialty uh so on and that actually helped us increase our
numbers because we started investing more into tools more into education more into equipment ourselves and the the
crews with what we needed to be more efficient to do larger projects um you know we were building and yeah you guys
were adding value to it yeah you got to charge a little bit more and we didn't
just slap him and say boom here's the increase no it was a trickle it was a you know Daniel said hey dude like if
we're going to keep going this direction we have to start going up so we had you know 10 cents here 25 cents here
depending on on what what it is but that's slowly what we did and
it worked and so many years are understood like have I guess
would you guys agree that if a guy comes in to you he's super high quality he says hey man
we're at four bucks I need you to get to 450 in the next few months here maybe
three six months from now I need to get I need that to be 450. great sub does
shows up on time you know punctual Dependable that kind of a guy you'd work
towards making that happen would you or would you not we would and I'm 100
um you know when we've talked to guys who we were subbing for and we've said that
there was no hesitation from them to offer us a little bit more right away because they were they knew that they
already had a little bit of a cushion because you do you mark up your labor so you get rid of that
you know to to make sure that everyone is staying happy which only
you know builds that that partnership up even stronger because all right I know that
they're losing a little bit on their end to make me happy now which is going to make me you know when they're like hey I
need you to go in a little bit tighter on this one because you know I don't know they messed up or something got
missed it makes it a lot easier to be like done I will do that for you right because of
what you did for me yeah that's just working with your because installers
that are sub subbing from us I'm your client right I give you the work orders I pay
you every single time I'm your client have a conversation with me about how we
can increase prices how can we get better don't if you're just griping
about it in the background or you're you're doing those things I don't see the productivity uh because everybody
agrees like even another flooring company just was on talking about it right like yeah we we understand but it
has to be on a market level because one store in a given Market cannot just
pay out 75 percent more than another store and win bids you you won't ever
win a job so it has to start at the level where the cost is coming from which is the installer I hate to I'm not
you know very not very often am I putting the blame on the installer but I am putting the responsibility on you
guys to as a community to gather together and help yourselves to help the
industry to help the stores will be better if if everybody is on the go career
Network and you're getting work based off Hammer rating and you are and higher Hammer rating equals higher pay that's
been proven then it only makes sense uh to do that but you gotta you gotta
take the steps whether that's with go career or going to Convention and talking to the CFI your CFI group or
going to fcica meetings and teaming up with other companies or other installers
and talking to them I when when Jose and I was at uh fcica there were multiple
installers there not just flooring companies so you know you you have the chance to talk to other installers as
well you know get together make some meaningful change through good
conversation and then go back and implement it go back and implement it go have that talk with your store
go have the talk that hey we're here I'd like to work to hear as you know within
the next six months or something I need to get here or three I'm just throwing you know time frames out there whatever
yeah you you decide your threshold there but just have some conversations with
them uh I think most stores will pay to have really high quality guys it just is
important that that it's it's awarded based on the level of quality and the
level of service that you are giving to that store if you are doing like Jose was just talking and adding value you
should be able to get paid more if you are going to and this is like if you're going to stay just you
and your cousin in a beat up pickup truck and never like it reinvesting back
into your tools and you're always borrowing tools from the company and all that stuff you're you're taking value
you're not adding value and so if that's you make a change like find ways to add
value to the process and not take value away from the process you know and then you can be in the position like Daniel
was just talking about where when the store needs you and you're there for them and then you need the store and
they're there for you that Dynamic only happens when you're working together
I totally understand that gotta have the conversations you don't
know unless you ask right tell John I said thanks for joining us there that was awesome I think he's I think he's
going to poop no no [Laughter]
um what you said to Paul isn't too far off on the tangent that
from what we're we're supposed to be talking about about having your kid but it all tied together because we're
setting a foundation for the future right and if we're setting a foundation that's misleading and it's not going to
be truthful and we're setting a foundation that's going to be watered down for the future of our industry
whether it's our child or not um we do have to make it known that it's
it's about having the right equipment and it's about being able to execute and be consistent and that that's what it is
is if you can consistently perform and let's just say at a higher level you can perform at a higher level with and
creating um a consistency of less risk right like
we had a really strong run with zero to no punchings for a long time do we still
get them yes we do but some of them are categorized as repairs right but they're pungentists
yeah but um but it's about the consistency and that's that's what what really controls
the market it's like if you can match consistency consistency skill set along with I don't want to say
imagery because not everybody is going to follow that beauty your images whatever you create but if you can on a
professional level you are attracting a specific demographic and you're working towards a specific demographic you kind
of have to fit the criteria right and that just all falls into place with it if you're if you're if you're on track
for that then and stay on track of that if your demographic is high-end homes and you're doing custom wood floors
then stay on track for that you're not gonna you're not one image has a lot to
do with how you perform right you don't have to necessarily be the cleanest cut person on the planet
but if you are if you are if you show up when you're supposed to when it's when you're
scheduled uh if you're punctual dependable and quality and like Jerry says
you help the store look good to the customer yes
of course he says I'll pay more for a reliable
installer I think that's across every flooring company every quality flooring
company is that if you make us if a sub makes us look good we are more apt to
take care and pay that guy more as we're able to but as far as changing that's on
a sub by sub level and that kind of happens now what I'm talking about is changing the entire industry to up the
water level of pay um and I think that takes um that takes people Banning together
installers banding together and making some meaningful change uh by by
communicating with the story that you need more right investing in your tools
by investing in yourself all the stuff we talk about all the time on the Huddle is investing back in yourself in
education and invest back into yourself in your tools and your equipment or in
Coalition that's what we need to start with flooring Coalition and then floor Trends has a a podcast that was released
last week I think I listened to it this morning um it's about building market share and
he's straight upset in there he said that installers are gonna be the ones that are
dominating everything pretty soon because we we have the powers in our hands right without us things don't get
done and it just it's about that time like you said you know you can only go down for so long until you start coming
back up and it's about that time for us to start coming back up and building um a stronger Workforce because you look
at things from back in the day and you know people were proud to be a flooring installer this is what I do yeah and now
you know it it's it's not the norm anymore like when we when we were first starting they were like we'd show up to
the job site and they'd be like oh you guys are the four guys usually they don't show up till like noon
we had to think for a while when we were the first ones there and the last ones leave um yeah nobody in our air has ever seen
that and that that to me was one of the um one of the takeaways from working uh as
a an employee for uh the company where I met Johnny who was just in the background
um was they were they were a company they would show up
in the morning they would mobilize get to work go put in eight hours on the job site and then then go home and it was
that was hard to find in the flooring industry because there is no Temple area there is no as a subcontractor you you as a 1099
subcontractor you don't have any lost so to speak so you were kind of
on your own hey stayed out late last night I guess I'm going in late tomorrow yeah well I mean those are the metrics
that are tracked though right those are the things that that's that people uh
recognize in a really high quality sub is uh dependability punctuality those
types of things because as a flooring company you can't legally you cannot tell a subcontractor
you start at eight and your day's over at five right that's not you can say the
job site hours are seven to three and we have this much work to get done here's
your work order you accept it you know the schedule you got to get it done on time and then
as as long as they're working within those hours and get the job done then uh
you gotta accept the the hours of of work if you will if the if the 1099 Subs will
just change their perspective a bit and start showing up better than or at least as good as
hourly installers uh you know be as punctual or and more
dependable and add more value you're going the the whole industry will change
like it is on the backs of installers uh it had a q a thing here that says you
know that installers make or break a company um I believe that uh that is 100 correct
like the installers can cause you as a store can cause you an immense pain or immense
pleasure and either way um you know the store hat you have to
deal with those things as they come but what's important is how you work together if you don't if the store is
not taking care of you um from a perspective of pay or or
setting up the jobs as good as they can and we all struggle with that a bit I'm
not saying we're perfect by any means but I am saying that go work for another store
go go go work for another store if you're unhappy at the store you're at right you guys have the you have the
control of your life and um again you know not that you shouldn't
get on uh social media and have discussions and I'm not even discouraging that whatsoever I think
it's awesome but I'm just taking some of the complaints out of that and you can
see that they're just complaining as opposed to proposing meaningful
Solutions and so um and there's a lot of solutions out
there you just gotta explore them so and have I have that conversation like uh Rollin says right here you got to have
that conversation right because then Rylan will tell you he says uh give me a
reason to pay you more it's about as clean as you can say it
right add value by being punctual dependable and having been well equipped
and you you have ninety percent of it knocked out of the park right there you know and now if you can install the
floor and do it in a great manner you you roll the roost I mean I know Subs
that roll the roost because they are Dependable punctual
well-equipped can if they if they're going to grind the floor and they don't have the right grinder with them they
got another one gr they that they they grab and and that one work I mean like
they're well equipped well trained and um
care a lot about being punctual and dependable uh those are just very
um important metrics for for Subs to you know keep track of themselves on
um we're running out of time here aren't we yep we're running out of time and so
it's always when we get on a good subject like I just want to say that this kind
of uh ties into why we started working so hard for the
industry and trying to change things is because of looking at our kids like what
I want them to do what I do right now and that's what pushes me to try and make them changes because like like he
said you know people don't know what their kids are going to do if one day my son is like this is what I want to do I
want to do the same thing that you do I want him to be in a better place than I was when he at the first day he starts
on the job site so so I you know to me Daniel you're you
said no but I think you're a yes I think you're a yes if the industry if
if the industry some of the changes that we're talking about and that we here can
at the shows all the time we start making those meaningful changes as an industry
um I think that uh you know you get a better situation A diff a better
scenario for your child uh because we love our kids we want them to have a better uh experience or existence and
what we have that's what every parent wants um but when that happened but what that
requires is everybody on this call everybody that's listening and and and
those of us who have contributed band together let's make some change by
doing things a little bit differently that does require a little bit of pain but let's do things a little bit
differently have those conversations let's get to pay where it should be and
let's value the installation uh Professionals in our industry I'm going
to leave this call with a quick uh story mark from the ntca
started a talk one time it was at surfaces and he I believe it was at surfaces and he was talking about how
back in the 30s and 40s like when a flooring guy walked in and he had some
pictures like they were in these dresses yeah I remember that a nice shirt and
they had a little tie on and now this was way back in the day but when the flooring guys showed up they were like
get out of the way the the Craftsmen are here today I was I was there for that I
was there were you there okay I was I was blown away with some of the pictures and stuff we can work back towards that we just
have to build back the responsibility I guarantee you those guys in that picture didn't show up at 10 o'clock and leave
it too so if you want that respect start acting like it and earning it
and uh I want to tell you guys I really appreciate you uh joining me and uh
having this discussion because you know with kids we we uh you know you you want
to have a better like I said a better experience for him but it it can happen in this industry as well so I hope we
can all make some meaningful change that that improves the industry and um you know addresses a lot of the
concerns out there so once again guys that's it four o'clock we made it a full hour uh with zero effort that was very
uh very fluid conversation I appreciate you guys and tell John it was nice to meet him and you guys have a good
afternoon and we'll catch you guys next Tuesday we'll see you soon have a good one all right thanks guys thanks guys
The Huddle - Episode 20 - Bridging the Generational Gap
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel, Jose (Crystal’s brothers) and Crystal (baby sister) discuss bridging the generational gap in the industry; from how to get more young installers involved and how to get older installers to mentor them.
FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
this week's huddle we come at you
every Tuesday to discuss how to maintain
forward progress in your flooring career
so this week with us is uh we got the
preferred flooring folks again Crystal's
joining us Daniel Jose and Ashland's
going to come on here and discuss
um
a scholarship that we are doing for uh
the Sim program with the scic8 so
Ashland take it away
okay well if you missed it last week um
Daniel and Paul were in Florida with CJ
in the FBI fcsca
um we have now created the forward
progress scholarship which will help
send an installer to be part of the
fcica certified installation manager
program
um with the option to also be a part of
the three-day System Program
um all you have to do go ahead and just
email Ashland and go Carrera that's
Ashlynn gokaro.com or you can message us
on any of our social medias right now
for more information on how to apply
foreign
I would say
um
that the Sim program is is going to be
Hammer rated now so you'll get Hammer
rating for going through the program uh
there's more and more installers that I
think as we've looked at it
um and talked to more guys there's more
than I realized that have went through
the program already and it's a
tremendous
um
it's a tremendous training uh teaching
you a lot of the stuff we go over on
whether it's running projects uh or or
trying to manage Crews or or get work
done a lot of the best practices are
right there in that same program uh
again that's ran by the seica and the
Ford progress uh scholarship
again just to Echo what Ashland just
said
email her Ashland gocarera.com that's
a-s-h-l-y-n-n
and then
um we can get you hooked up and entered
into the to the uh uh scholarship
and uh we will be announcing I'm not
sure which uh three days to Sam we're
going to promote quite yet but that'll
come about here
um Ashlyn can let you know that so
hopefully we get plenty of applicants
because I really would like to see who's
in interested in uh learning more of the
business side and the uh maybe not so
much Technical Training but more uh
mindset and and how to go about running
winning projects
oh that was loud my bad what's that
was loud hey you push the button over
here they mean interrupt gotcha so this
week our discussion is uh the
generational yeah Bridging the
generational Gap so as many people on
this call know
um and a lot of the flooring companies
can attest is the average age of the
installer is somewhere between that 53
to 58 depending on the region
there's been a lot of discussion about
and and Jose can talk about it too uh at
our fcica uh convention there was that
was like probably the most talked about
topic was the new generation and the old
generation and how to get those two to
come together and transfer of Knowledge
from the older guys to older men and
women that are in the trade into the
younger men and women that are joining
the trade now
um there was a lot of quick to uh say
well the younger Generations lazy and
doesn't want to work I think we heard
that a little bit uh I I don't know that
you know we pushed back yeah I know Jose
pushed back on that thought process and
that um I'm you know my my opinion is
the older guys need to really stand
stand up and Mentor the younger
generation like just take the burden on
yourself that it is our duty uh as you
know experienced installers to pass that
that knowledge on uh so when you're
dealing with a helper or something look
look at you less as just an employee
uh employer Arrangement and maybe look
at it as a mentor mentee Arrangement as
well
um but anyway I know that came up a lot
what's your thoughts of the of how that
was uh discussed during the convention
well because I think I think the the
thought process no matter where you're
at is always the same you know you
the younger generation is lazy uh the
older generation is aging out it's too
late for me to teach somebody
um you know and
it's not perspective if you're going to
believe that they're lazy then then
you're going to believe you're not going
to let it go but if you're if you're
saying that but not offering an
opportunity and not devoting some time
to
for someone who falls under that
category then you're not really
getting your hands dirty uh so to speak
you have to give someone an opportunity
to fail before you already labeled them
uh lazy or or a failure at what you're
trying to teach
um well I think you pointed out
something that's important that that
when I bring it up and that is
they're they operate differently yeah it
doesn't mean lazy they're they're trying
to find more efficient ways to do things
and that's not so far from what you know
like some of the tool manufacturers are
doing they're trying to make tools that
make it easier on your body we got to
sit through several demonstrations of
awesome tools that keep you off your
knees like
that's all beneficial right it's it's
it's not you brought that point up but I
wanted to remind you about that that you
you said you know they're different
they're they just up they they approach
things differently that doesn't mean
they're lazy though yeah they've already
they've already um
they grew up in a different time right
they have a lot of information at their
fingertips and when you
when you are teaching uh someone who
who's part of the younger generation
they don't just take what you said and
go back and just Ponder on that right
they take what you said go back and find
many other variations of your thought
process and then they YouTube it they
come back they come back to the table
with a hybrid version of what they feel
the direction of that should go and just
because
just because we went through uh from
point A to point B
walking through the snow with one socket
no shoes doesn't mean that they're going
to want to do that same process right
they're going to say hey
I was getting a vehicle let's go and and
try to expedite this let's let's try to
make it easier on everybody involved
um they're gonna help uh refine the
training process well there's been you
know people that have come through here
and then that's what they do they
research stuff and go on YouTube and
then they'll come back and be like hey
check this out and sometimes it's like I
never knew about that let's look into
this and you can't be closed-minded you
have to take that information and and
expand on it
yeah do you think do you do you know
another thing that came up was that
um
not that not just that the younger
generation was necessarily lazy
um but also that they seem to not uh
want to
it's not that they're lazy it's just
they're not as money driven do you
remember that when they kept saying that
it's not they're not as money driven so
they're would you see that as true and
Crystal you're in the room here thanks
for joining us today do you do you do
you guys
see that as true do you see that the
younger generation is not as Money
Motivated and more experienced as far as
like they want their work life to have
to be rewarding in some way and but not
totally consume their life
so I don't mean to interrupting your
thought process so so my my opinion on
you know a lot of the younger generation
grew up where their parents have devoted
a lot of time to their craft and to
their business or to work where there
was not a lot of uh not of not a lot of
family time per se right
so in order to break that cycle the
thought process has to change and when
the thought process changed the systems
change and that's what they're doing is
they're approaching it a little bit
different
yeah they want to go out and be
successful and have a good career a good
paying job but if they're going to find
balance of work and home life work and
family they're going to find balance
more than
more than the older generators the other
generation is I got to provide so work
is important so they can live a better
life well you know what you did a good
job they are they did live a better life
but now they understand that they missed
a lot of family time and they're trying
to close that Gap so I think a lot of it
like um
looking at
my nephews and stuff that are
you know they're you know in their
younger 20s and seeing how and my nieces
too like they jump from job to job and
you want to say that they're not Money
Motivated but if you look at the the
younger people they'll jump from one job
to another
for a quarter an hour
and it's like we were offering you not
not us but you know one company was
offering them so much but then they jump
over here just because that quarter an
hour but they're a lot of the that
that's just one one aspect of it but a
lot of the younger people that that I
talk to and I think they're looking more
for the benefits package you know what
is what they want that Health Care they
want to know that they're going to be
covered in retirement they're looking
out you know because they're they're
looking at their parents right now or
their grandparents and they're like
they're retiring with nothing like I
don't want to be that person that has to
work in order to make it through
retirement
well a cool metric outside flooring is
that
the US has the youngest investor
population in its history meaning our
population is investing earlier younger
than ever
uh which would you know kind of go to
your point Daniel that you know they
care about their future
um I don't know so a where's the rubber
meet the road how do we Bridge uh the
generational Gap what is the what what's
our best advice to give to the audience
on how to approach younger because I
think part of this is
you can't just throw your hands up say
they don't want to learn or they're lazy
or whatever like it's it's in our
approach the older folks
um you know
it's I think it's on our shoulders to
approach the younger generation in a way
that they understand
so that that's part of it what's your
guys's thoughts on that like how do we
actually Bridge it we got to start
listening to what the younger generation
is saying the the women in flooring at
convention at CFI convention actually
opened my eyes up to them probably them
too it's all when you know Jeff was just
sitting off to the side and
and at the end you know he came in and
said that everything that we were saying
is all based on assumption you I assume
this so that's where this thought
process is and they assume this so it's
it's open communication between everyone
and knowing that one you got to take the
younger generation's perspective into
account and two you got to realize that
you're not always right we say all the
time that you know just because I've
I've been doing this for 40 years well
you've been doing it wrong for 40 years
I don't necessarily mean that you know
everyone's thought process process has
been wrong but you have to evolve your
thought process in order to know that
you know things are changing let's start
changing with the times
just because you've done this for 30
years doesn't mean it's right right now
it's it's about time to start changing
and we got you know John steyer right
here he says that the younger generation
is they work to Live While you know
their moms and dads live to work and I
see that a lot because you talk more
like that you know in some of these
groups they're like oh you only work 45
hours I remember my first part-time job
you know yeah we can go back to that and
it's like people say that that is how it
was like even when I came into the
trades it was like if you weren't
working 60 hours a week there was
something wrong with you and now it's
like
people want to put in their 40 hours and
they want to be able to walk away and be
like all right I put in my 40 hours let
me go and and do what I want to do and
people right now you know they got
Hobbies our guys that blows glass he
doesn't want to do this 60 hours a week
and then go blow glass it's like I want
to put in my time so that way I can go
do what I enjoy doing all right enjoy
it's almost like we've went back to when
yes you know back to when there was some
bounce I mean back in the 50s or so you
know you didn't work
70 80 hours back then
um and you didn't you didn't have two
family households either two family
income households either back then uh
not so much right for the most part the
van went out and earned a living and and
had some balance uh nowadays there's a
two income families which is awesome but
and almost required anymore to be honest
with you but the point is
now that you have that it's almost like
you realize that all we're doing is
working coming home and eating dinner
going to bed and repeating the process
tomorrow
and so families maybe are starting you
know younger generation realizing like
I I love that saying I've never heard
that but that is as accurate as I've
heard it spoke in so little words I did
I I do love to work in a lot of ways I
live to work and tires I'm right there
yeah
I I
um
my
experience with the younger generation
um in installing in particular has been
a little mixed
I don't see them as lazy at all what
I've experienced is
um it's like they have to earn their way
to learn meaning that the older
generation doesn't want to teach them
until they've proven themselves long
enough that they're gonna actually uh
absorb the information and put it to
good use it's almost like there's a test
uh and I've I've watched it with our own
Crews uh where you know one of our older
crew members you know won't teach a new
guy anything until he's kind of proven
himself that he's going to be there for
a bit that he's actually wants to learn
and apply that knowledge so it's like I
think the older generation in some ways
just don't want to waste their time
either and so
on that side and that's kind of what you
deal with that earlier right when I'm
saying that
um talking about my nephews and stuff
because I've talked to him I've talked
to you know my niece about it and it's
like you look at their work history and
through the court I mean their how does
our nephew's 21 lunch over right yeah 21
and then you know my niece is around the
same age
um
and it's like you look at it and it
through the work history from when they
turn 18 to 21 they can give you three
four pages of employers that they work
for and it's like as an employer you
look at that and you're like if I hire
this person what is
what is what are the chances that
they're going to stick around long
enough for me to get my return on
investment so I kind of see it from that
perspective too right well that's where
the younger generation has to give a
little bit you know we're defending them
but at the same time from an employer
standpoint and just like I said the old
dude standpoint or old you know older
installer standpoint
if you're if you're a job Hopper like
how do we get back to some some
long-term consistency because I do know
that the stats show that younger people
have more jobs I've had four jobs my
entire life I'm 46 years old uh you know
I know people who are 22 and have had 20
jobs or 10 jobs or whatever they've had
four jobs in the last month yeah thing
when I when I got into the flooring
industry and I was hired part of my
conversations were oh man I've worked
I've worked here here here here here and
I was 18 years old and
um uh the gentleman I worked for a ray
it was like this is years later he's
like dude when you started working with
me and you started telling me all these
places you work and we just like because
I started chewing temporary they decided
to ask me to stick around because like I
was so nervous that you were just gonna
leave I was like it wasn't
about me leaving I I left these places
because and now we're talking about it
makes sense I left them because it
didn't fit my life it didn't fit what I
was trying to do at the time or what was
important to me at the time right
because
I worked for money back then but when I
was you know before I was 18 but at the
same time is I still wanted to play
baseball and I still had school and I
still had other things
um and some employers were not willing
to bend so to speak to to accommodate
some of that but um
I I don't think the the long list of uh
ex-employ or exemplate ex employment
places will scare me away I think that
maybe they just have a little more
experience with people
um so I kind of look at it like you know
the glass half full with that right and
it's all on perspective right John says
that um
when he graduated high school you're
lucky to get a factory job at 40 hours a
week and now factories are wanting you
to work 60 plus hours with weekends you
know mandatory
yeah he's one of the younger ones he's
what 23. 24.
um
there was another one right here earlier
uh George
Jorge yeah he said um go up a little bit
but about people training that they're
they're afraid that they're going oh
right here and go on their own operator
yeah
and really that's that's really what you
want right because if someone is
comfortable enough to go on their own
that means that you did your job while
training them sometimes sometimes people
just think that it's going to be easy
money and then they go out there and
that's a whole another issue right right
um yeah there's a couple of different
ways that happens I mean I think you
should be proud if you get somebody and
you
um
train them well enough to go out and and
start their own gig I think that should
be a source of Pride
um yes and and not looked at as bad but
there's this
epidemic of of guys or girls and more in
the guys to be honest with you that that
that work for six months under somebody
and then think they are flooring and
seller
um you know
there's that that's a problem and
obviously uh we don't do this podcast to
just promote go career but that is one
of the things go career prevents is if
you've only got six months experience
and maybe a training or two you're just
not going to have that higher Hammer
rating and not qualify for that much
work because reality is different than
that there's a few unicorns out there
that can
you know picked this thing up in a year
or something but
there's there's there's so much to uh
being a flooring installer so many to to
really be effective that you know six
months or a year is a tall order
um but at the end of the day I I think
that
if we're able to from what even what uh
Jorge said
understand that what giving because I've
heard this argument you know they're
going to take my job or it's going to be
more competition or that well if you
train them correctly and you teach them
the business side too on how to give you
know price yourself
correctly in the market you're creating
good competition you're not creating bad
competition you're not creating you know
hacks and you don't creating a
partnership anyway it's not even
necessarily competition you could be
creating a partnership if that person is
is trustworthy and the workmanship is
great you're creating someone else who
can essentially help you with your
business as well
yeah
yeah I don't know there's not a silver
bullet to this question or this this um
this problem really but the discussion
and I don't know is there a
you know convention and the the the
shows is when this gets talked about a
lot in bigger group settings but
fcef CFI
NTC all the different organizations you
know I think they struggle with this
same problem I mean they talk about it
so is there it would be interesting to
really understand is there steps that
can be taken like
prescribe steps like
to to solve in the problem or is it just
like we have to take these ideals that
we're talking about and then do the best
we can and that's where it's been that's
where it stood but it'd be interesting
if we could say you know
new guy
just out of the gate realize they want
to have a life that's first off they
they're they're not you
they're they didn't live your life they
lived a different life
realize they want to have one
so then you train around that and be
okay with somebody working 40 hours and
maybe one of the things is dropping that
that uh negative uh viewpoint on 40
hours is somehow not a full week that's
a full week's work you know
still lost still
drive time everything else involved in
there too right I mean 40 Hour Work Week
local within a half hour drive you're
still devoting 10 to 12 hours to your
your work
yeah
I think that uh
a lot of the younger generation right
now is looking for a comfortable
workplace somewhere where they're
feelings are considered just as much as
you know them wanting to enjoy life like
if someone comes and they're in a
hostile work environment they're not
going to want to stay there uh the
younger generation is a lot more
sensitive I guess is that is that the
right word they're just not willing to
put up with what we did they can't they
they have the benefit of picking and
choosing their their jobs because our
parents worked so hard so if they go to
a job and they're being yelled at or
belittled or they're just you know
certain Vibes if you will that they
don't agree with then they're just
essentially like I don't have to put up
with this I can go work over here like
tomorrow and that's that's what I've
realized like leading some of these some
of the newer guys on our crew like I
really have to approach every individual
a little bit different you lead everyone
a little bit differently you know some
you could pick on a little bit more but
some you really have to
watch the your words and because you
don't want to offend people because
everyone's personality is different
everyone might you might be joking but
they might not know that you're joking
so just taking their feelings into
consideration and kind of
um leading based on their personality
getting to know people and that's kind
of what you know we touched on earlier
it's not
it's the I've always done this or this
is how I was brought brought in the
trade so this is how you're going to be
brought in the trade and that's what
we're trying to break right now right
and you know Eduardo said you know he
said the last guy that I worked for I
walked like I'm not gonna put up with
this you know and and that's that's the
gravity of the situation right now is
they do not have to put up with it and
what what is gonna happen is that you
know the more especially with technology
everyone is talking and it's like yeah
dude I didn't put up with that and I
just walked well that's what I'm gonna
do tomorrow well here we are with the
Clash of I of these ideals you know from
the two generations you know the the
older generation thinks that the younger
generation should be tougher scanned and
just
kind of deal with it the way that they
did
because I think I know I've had bad jobs
you know you guys have probably had some
crappy crappy jobs
um
we just dealt with it you know what I
mean and they they're not willing to
deal with that uh that conflict
the older generation feels like they
ought to just have thicker skin
and but there has to be some give
somewhere we're going to have this
problem and we're not going to even come
close to solving some of these issues
without those coming those two ideas
softening a little bit like
not being so sensitive but also being
more sensitive but both sides almost
seem like they have to move a little bit
I don't know how to make that happen
yeah I gotta find that dance right dance
right it's got a balance because if
you're not willing to look at their
point of view they're not going to be
willing to look at yours right so it's
it's that give and take and and you
gotta find that balance
um even like Tim asks right here he says
what is there to entice the younger
generation and then he follows that up
with you know you look at
what would make someone want to come to
this trade from being a plumber or an
electrician like what are we offering
that other people aren't and I think at
this point in time there really isn't
anything that the flooring industry is
offering that that you know other people
aren't we're actually probably far
behind what other people are offering
because you're looking at you know
electricians and even around here we
have
you know
electrical companies that have huge
workforces and it's like
you look at that and it's like people
want to go work there but then when you
look at the flooring industry it's
always I Want To Be My Own Boss I want
I want to
have my own work I don't want to work
for someone and it the stigma just
shouldn't be there because there's
companies out there that
that can put you in a better spot than
you know going out there on your own and
struggling for those couple years
um even if it's just a stepping stone
there's I know plenty of electricians
that have gone through some of these
companies and they do their own thing
now but it but it's going through them
and getting that necessary education in
order to get to that level what's that
education
so the electricians and the plumbers
that and and people who are the Steel
Erectors
um they're all subject to inspections
right they have to have an inspection
their workmanship has to be to a
specific level and standard for the job
to proceed to carry on
we don't get our stuff looked at unless
it fails
they appreciate yeah so so government
category government jobs uh we had this
discussion in our office last week or
the week before about
um
some of our government projects
you get each
um
sorry I had a chat come up uh you get
each step of the way
gets inspected so we are doing ceramic
tile and the prep got inspected prior to
the waterproofing and when the
waterproofing was done we had to call
the Corps of Engineers guy in to inspect
the waterproofing and then it was the
next step in the next step that would be
awesome if that happened it would
prevent a lot of failures but it just
isn't part of the trade I think that
your point to the electricians and the
the plumbers and things like that
from a trade perspective they they get
better press than we do for sure I mean
if you're scrolling through your feed
and you see something about you know
joining trade it's usually electrician
or plumber
you know electricians are like
um
they're not my favorite people on job
sites but the
um they certainly have the best press
you know what I mean uh
our industry being so independent and
installers wanting to become
subcontractors uh and and work on their
own and do their own work
that is a that's that's tough if you
work for a company and we we have hourly
Anne Subs uh and many of our subs were
hourly at some point
um
so I think that there's there's a prog a
progression that you could go through uh
to becoming Your Own Boss but there's
such a low barrier of Entry to to jump
into flooring that
guys do try to do it like
six months after they've started with
somebody and they don't don't have any
previous experience and so
I think there's a dance there as well
but I think if
in my opinion
if the older generation will embrace the
younger generation and I know we're
we're a one of a million podcasts out
there so whoever's listening
um embrace the younger generation and
understand that you're Pro you're
providing for them a long life of of
earning if you can truly teach them how
to do fluorine
Eduardo what the the Q a that jumped up
is uh you know you achieving dreams is
possible through the flooring industry
well it is I mean you can make a lot of
money especially as a sub but only if
you're properly trained I mean a few
failures and you're out of business if
you're not if you're not doing it right
you know right I mean so look at us just
last week we were in Georgia for the
nfic certification right and
um a lot of that carpet I've never
even laid hands on until we got there
and did I I went there for the
certification right but I I went there
with um
to learn about the product in case it
ever comes up not because that's what
I'm gonna go out looking for I just want
to know enough about something that if
it pops up
even if I'm not the one doing it I can
know something about it and I know
something is off right away
yeah
and it's it's that getting getting
educated like that
well what's the what's the
best way I I know that as we've talked
before in uh previous huddles
um
you know the ftef and in TCA all the
organizations are kind of working on in
the wfca
um working on attracting new
um younger installers it seems like
that's working a bit but
from an overall standpoint
um it'd be interesting to know
their
um
how many of those guys that they've ran
through their 10-week course got a job
and are staying what's the staying power
what's the
um you know how long is that acquisition
staying with the the trade
is the training working possibly but is
is are we resonating as an industry are
we resonating with the younger crowd
that that's that's a good question for
them I think it's still too early to
know right because it's this is just
popping off in the last couple years so
that data has to start filtering through
and that you know and it's not we don't
need to know just that we need to know
like who are they being placed with or
be they be in place with someone that's
going to pay them right
treat them right obviously treatment's a
big part of this
and uh you know just just in our
business it's been an evolution right
we've
and and I've said this before it's when
we started saying that
in when we stopped saying I can't afford
this and started saying we can't afford
not to do it is when you know that
progression started coming along and
it's
people need to start thinking like that
you know I can't afford to pay my taxes
well at some point you're going to get
hit and you're going to be like man I
can't afford not to right yeah I
shouldn't that was a mistake and you
know I can't afford to pay my employees
right well the
the classification of workers right now
that's going on everywhere and it's a
lot of it is due to you know Uber and
doordash and stuff but it's
that's legit man it's gonna come back to
bite us at some point and it's are you
gonna you know start researching and
getting on the right path now or are you
gonna wait until it's too late
um a lot of the
the younger people want to see that
that income coming legit because once
they get that 10.99 and they go to file
their tax and they're like wait I owe
money yeah what's this about I thought I
got refunds at the end of the year okay
besides besides the Young Generation who
are trying to avoid paying some kind of
outstanding debt that that they've
acquired uh I don't know too many that
are real interested in worrying about
their taxes at the turn of the year or
every quarter you know they
just the ones who are trying to avoid
you know getting garnishments and stuff
like that and you know I know some of it
is
they've just
trying to put on the back burner so they
catch up some of this they're trying to
avoid it period but
not very many young people are coming up
like hey is there a way for me to just
pay my taxes in you know about every
quarter one lump sum that's what I want
to do you know yeah you kind of
no one jumps into it because they want
to they jump into it because they feel
like that's a start it's the beginning
or out of necessity
yeah the tax thing is we beat on it all
the time because so doggone important if
you're going to be an independent
pay in quarterly talk to an accountant
pay in quarterly income taxes estimates
and then you might get a refund at the
end of the year you might not but at
least you're not going to have a huge
tax bill at the end of the year uh
managing the money from a business
standpoint
the the business piece of this uh for
Subs is
it's one of the most important parts
because you can have a great installer
that really gets himself uh you know in
a pickle that ends up you know there was
a time there when sub was about the
it was the
it's still the majority of the work but
I mean it seemed like you couldn't hire
an hourly if you wanted to uh and then
it turned and it was a lot of guys who
got behind on taxes and just needed to
get the IRS off their back so they get a
W-2 and then they they get garnished and
that's a better scenario than their
house getting taken and everything else
that could happen so they get a job they
get a W-2 The Government Can garnish
them and they're they're hap that's a
happier existence we've had several guys
come in because of that over over the
years but just don't get yourself in
that scenario pay your taxes on a
quarterly basis I know it sucks but at
the end of the day it's a much better
existence than getting some huge tax
bill at the end of the year and these
are things that the younger generation
may not even like I'm talking about just
getting them into the trade I would love
for him to go to work for a company for
a preferred or Steward Associates or
someone who hires by the hour for
several years before they go out and
start their own gig but and this kind of
ties back into you know one of the the
previous podcasts when we were talking
about
um our body being our most important
tool and how we have to take care of it
because
for the longest time I didn't have
health insurance and that made me not go
to the doctor at all
and it's like
just for you know simple stuff look at
take you know your shoulder right
his shoulder was is messed up and we
didn't have a health insurance so here
of course I'm not going to deal with the
doctor like uh it'll probably be better
next week
these younger kids you know
when they come into work somewhere and
they have that accessible and you tell
them yeah go to the doctor go to the
dentist you know take care of your body
that's not
what we were brought up like it's beat
yourself up as much as you can and if
you go see a doctor well
you're a little B that's that's all it
came down to and it's like no that's
that that's where you get these younger
people and they they look at things from
a different perspective and doing things
differently so that way they don't have
to work as hard because
honestly I tell the guys like
I'm 35 my hips and my knees are
basically done
well there's a dichotomy of it too right
you're like we're we're short
in dollars in our industry so guys are
working long hours and harder than
I mean I've got guys that
like have been ran pretty hard over the
summer
um you know it's it's tough because you
got the work that has to get done you
got the crews that can do it but it
requires a lot more time
um
we need to make flooring a living wage
at 40 hours I think is one of the
answers like make it a living wage at 40
hours
and when I say living I mean if we're
going to compete
in the end in the construction industry
we a living wage isn't
making it you know just getting by it's
it's being able to afford a lifestyle
and somehow that has to happen within 40
hours right and a lot of that has to do
with
um
going back to the business side of
things people think that oh I'm just
going to do this repair is going to take
me 15 minutes I'll just charge them 15
minutes worth of work but it's it's more
involved than that it's your fuel it's
the you know the the wear and tear on
the vehicle it's your body it's your
insurance like all this gets wrapped up
into that package of the 15 minutes and
what the repair that takes you
45 minutes to drive to 15 minutes to do
45 minutes to drive back and that's
that's not including loading up the
tools that you need in the morning
making sure you have everything it's all
this gets wrapped up into it so you know
you're looking all in at least four
hours and you have to hit a minimum day
charge because at that four hours
is it really four hours if you don't
have anything to do after that because
you scheduled it yeah that's just lost
time at that point
so
um in order to have the younger people
come in and
be sustainable you have to know how to
run things like that because if you're
going to hire someone to go do that and
it's like yeah it only took you 15
minutes but
younger people yeah I know that I'm not
gonna go do this for 15 minutes right
you have to be able to to make sure that
that they're covered for that day as
well
yeah and the the
I mean you can do the best you can as a
shop but you know our industry also has
a vast uh amount of installers that work
you know directly with Builders and such
and
you know good business practices is a
whole nother
podcast and we've had a couple we'll
keep having them because to me it's it's
you know I think to all of us it's
important that they understand the
business side of this if you're going to
be a sub but bringing in and Bridging
the generational gap between installers
to me
uh really equates from this conversation
experience is important to the
the younger generation
take into account the way that you come
across as an older person to that
younger generation because their
feelings
like it or hate it that I think
sensitive is the right word crystal it's
like a bit more sensitive a bit more in
touch with their feelings and a bit more
in touch with the fact that like if
their experience sucks at work they
don't want to spend eight hours doing it
or ten hours for that matter so the
experience of working has to be somewhat
you know pleasurable or else we're not
going to attract them and fluorine's a
tough business uh you know it can be
tough on your body but there's also some
really cool stuff uh you know staying in
tune and I know I preach about the
conventions and the shows but you get to
go see some I got to see tools I've
never seen I've been doing this my whole
life and I got to see tools I've never
seen because they're constantly coming
out with new stuff that will save your
body uh Jose and I've seen a few of them
that they will save your body they will
save you time they will save the time on
the floor so that's getting involved
that requires some effort on
um
that requires some effort on the uh new
installers shoulders to you know take
that step too though
it'll make their work look a lot better
too and put them on a whole nother
platform as well which brings more value
to them long term yeah even if you're by
the hour if you're if you're versed on
the like if one of my guys came up to me
and said hey I've seen this awesome tool
that I was watching this this video
online with wolf and they showed this
tool can we get it that would be
encouraging to me
yeah
you know awesome tools because of people
coming in like that like hey you gotta
check this out
let me check it out yeah
[Music]
first place I've ever seen it was at a
Convention as a matter of fact I had it
before it hit the market and
you know we were we were doing our own
custom uh transitions nosings reducers
uh for with Ali and sitting there
peeling my hand and this guy says look
at this peel the whole plank full print
everything in like two minutes and I was
like
what yeah
well I I think I got mentioned on here
uh before and it may have been you
Daniel talked about crab stretcher that
was like a
you know a carpet crab stretcher was
that was
mind-blowingly uh awesome to me when I
first seen it
and we just on two sides of a scene
kicking it together and putting stay
Nails in trying to you know get bow and
skew out and stuff well I'm not
mind-blowing the crab structure was and
I don't know I just I don't know if
he'll remember but what was the name of
the job the first job we did using the
craft store shirt
the only reason we bought it you don't
remember Bible's for Mexico
I'll remember is on the Lake Shore and
we bought the crab stretcher for it
because we had some very long seams and
I was not looking forward to me banging
that to get a little half inch pattern
so I'll never forget the job I'll never
forget where
I was just like I was happy we bought a
new tool hey yeah well there
there there's the other thing is
with the new tools
um I I know the tool manufacturers do a
pretty good job of like getting their
stuff out there but I think a lot of
that uh could reside with the the
younger generation as well is the fact
that not all this stuff is the way we
used to do it I mean my Kicker was 10
times better than the guy I learned from
who actually had an old kicker with a
cotton butt you know I mean it was
wrapped in leather and it was a cotton
butt and uh you know mine was a Cadillac
compared to that so I mean the tools are
getting better for us our bodies don't
have to take the damage if you're
interested in the flooring trade Reach
Out
to to me Paul at go Carrera Daniel and
uh Jose even Crystal I bet has a uh uh
preferred flooring Michigan what's your
guys's uh email it's Daniel
where am I you can do pfmi dot team
remember I I said we shortened it up he
was like that's preferred flooring Mi is
too long so my pinkies don't work
so I mean reach out
um we can get you connected to some
awesome training
truth is is that the industry is getting
better it is a good industry the one
thing that I think we do have is a good
Community people that want to solve some
of the problems we're just trying to
figure everything out
um it's kind of I've said it before I
think we're the biggest smallest Big
Industry there is you know it's like you
have access to a lot of people in this
industry that you know you go to a
convention you can literally sit there
and talk to the CEO of a multi-billion
dollar manufacturer so you know
kind of getting involved is important or
at least
go get a job with a company that's
involved if you're just an installer
that and you're looking for an hourly
gig or something go with account at
least get with a company that's involved
in this stuff you be encouraged if you
see your your president or your your
your install manager or something going
to these conventions because that's
where we learn about the new tools about
the new processes awesome new ways of
doing things I learned something at
fciaca this last week that I'm we're
going to be implementing we're we're
going to integrate even further than we
are now at the flooring company so
um you know there's always something to
learn
um I think if we all keep our our
learning hats on and
um
you know kind of address what the uh
younger generation is looking for I just
got a chat says entry level uh should
come with health insurance well at a
company you know at my flooring company
you have your health insurance paid for
so a lot of companies will you know you
you have the access but if you're going
to be a sub now you have to start out
looking at group policies and stuff like
that and I know the ntca
um and some of the other organizations
have group rates for health insurance so
as a sub if you want to look into that
uh reach out we can we can get you
connected but there are group kind of
health insurance for a sub if you want
but at the end of the day if you want
your health insurance provided you're
going to have to go to work by the hour
for a company and that's okay
yeah and you know that if you are a
company like you know we are
know that the benefits that you can
offer do go a long way with uh the new
hires at
that are coming in
um and it's not just health insurance or
the retirement you have to look at
packages like through the the chamber we
get 20 off of one of the local colleges
and we get discounts at
um certain you know office supply stores
and other things that can can benefit
the employees that are coming in it's
not just what you're you're offering
it's I mean it kind of is what you're
offering right but it's the entire
package deal it's not just
this is what we're offering because
health insurance and stuff like that
it's expand on everything that from
every organization that you're involved
in because all that can entice one
person to come on board
yeah you got to get pretty comprehensive
with it for sure
um I don't know that we solved any
problems it's always a good discussion
to try to understand and get get a you
know conversation going about
um this topic in particular because I
think that
you well it's it's clear from every
report you get from the industry that
we're aging out and not replacing fast
enough so this conversation has to
continue
um and you know leaders in this this
industry have to kind of open arms and
and and lock hands with the others and
and try to help solve the problem so
continue to do it I know you guys will
and I I hope that uh we can make an
impact here right and that whole um from
the CFI convention the women in flooring
Roundtable that they did when the
younger ladies that were in there did
speak out about how they felt about
everything is actually on our YouTube if
you wanted to go over there and watch
that entire thing it's
it's nice to see how there's you know
the older generation and then at the
very end the younger generation kind of
spoke up and and pretty much let us know
exactly if you let us know how she felt
and it was yeah
okay yeah and the they that particular
meeting really echoed a lot of what we
talked about the experience uh you know
having a work experience that's Pleasant
you know the fact that
um you know
the sexism in construction in general uh
and how they've made it through that
some of the uh
more experienced installers in that room
spoke about that and I I'm sure it's
still around but I I think that we're
getting better as a society on those I
on those matters and uh you know
hopefully you know anybody who wants to
be in flooring is welcome in my opinion
and we'd love to have all of you so uh
if you're interested in flooring there
are a lot of programs out there that you
can get tied into you can always shoot
an email to support gocarera.com if you
have questions about that how to get
involved uh when conventions are or when
shows are we can share any of that
information with you and we also have a
you know a page dedicated to training
and where they're at and everything like
that on our website at gocarera.com uh
you can reach out to Daniel Jose and
them over preferred flooring I guarantee
you they can get you hooked into some
awesome trainings if you're if you're
looking to get involved in this industry
so and uh so with that guys uh we've
reached our time limit and uh I want to
appreciate
I want to tell you I appreciate the the
input I know it's like you know a lot of
these you want to get to some resolution
we can't get to resolution on this
matter we can just have discussions and
hope that people here people make this
is something that the conversation is
going to have to keep on going on
because it's going to be constantly
evolving anyways because as soon as as
soon as we get that
this generation that we're dealing with
right now as soon as we're like all
right we understand them that's when the
next one's coming in yeah yeah
so you got to be pliable
got to all right guys so much Crystal
what's up don't forget about the the
scholarship
yes uh just to mention that again thank
you Daniel as uh The Sims scholarship
with the fcica again email support to go
Carrera or Ashland go Carrera
um and uh enter to uh win that
scholarship again it's an awesome
training and I think you'll hear a lot
of the stuff that we've talked about uh
echoed in that training but with you
know deeper knowledge and deeper
training into it so
um anybody
when we figure out which one we're gonna
kind of push for this maybe we got to
make it so me and you were there so that
way they're not there by themselves yeah
that'd be awesome
yeah Stockton's the next one I just
don't know if they are going to be able
to have room at that one so I believe
we're gonna have to go with the one
after that and I don't know that that's
been set yet so that's why we're not
quite sure
um of which one were I believe it's the
next one after Stockton but I just don't
have the dates and the time and the the
location but yeah that would be that's a
great idea let's go to that one and
whoever wins can hang out with Daniel
and I and and maybe Crystal will be
there if we can't be there you know yeah
so that way someone will be there right
yeah that'd be awesome
thanks a lot I appreciate you and uh we
will be uh seeing you guys next week and
uh have a pleasant week everyone thanks
you too see ya thanks bye
thank you
The Huddle - Episode 19 - The Power of Partnerships
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose discuss the power of partnerships and how creating those partnerships can launch your business forward. Paul and Jose are live from the FCICA Convention, and are joined by CJ from FCICA who shares some of her knowledge as well.
FORWARD PROGRESS SCHOLARSHIP: email Ashlynn@gocarrera.com or message GoCarrera on social media to apply to be able to win a CIM Scholarship and be a part of a 3 days to CIM.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up everybody
welcome to the Huddle we're on location
this week
as you know every week we uh we do this
uh podcast three o'clock on Tuesdays
central time and we're coming to you
every single week on the Huddle to help
you maintain forward progress in your
flooring career so Jose's with me
Daniel's back in Michigan on the fort
and uh he was just mentioning how
terrible it looks here so uh today's
podcast is about the power of
Partnerships so
um
you know speaking of Partnerships we are
um
always talking about making it to
conferences and conventions and things
like that and the value of that to
installers flooring contractors and such
so today we got CJ who's the executive
director of fcica and
yeah so she can take myself
no have a seat hi everyone so CJ's uh
the executive director for fcica which
is uh Floor Covering uh flooring
contractors Association where we come
together two times a year right mid-year
and annual and uh
got all your standard I shouldn't say
standard but all the the best suppliers
um
flooring contractors we got installers
uh everybody gets together shares best
practices what's really unique about the
fcica is uh everybody's uh willingness
to help the other the other companies I
mean in in reality a lot of times we're
competitors but we come together to help
share best practices ideas uh one of the
things that's really resonated uh at
this event has been technology not only
like
go Carrera type technology or
cloud-based technology and all that
that's here for sure in Spades in a lot
of ways but also tools so we had a great
um presentation earlier about like
modern installer tools and
um so anyway CJ puts us together
does all the hard work uh what's your
vision for the fcica and how how
bringing people together
um really creates strong lasting
Partnerships so um that's really fcica's
Vision it's uh it comes from our board
and all of our members and kind of like
what you just said everyone's
willingness to help each other out so
our mission is to help make commercial
foreign contractors successful
um and really uh one of the things that
we really try to do is partner with
every everyone in the industry so we
have a lot of Industry Partnerships
someone from wfca is here someone from
install is here
um starnet was here starnet fuse and of
course the USA all partner with us
um because we we all want to work
together to help make the boring
industry better and help everyone grow
you know together and this is uh is it a
membership do you have to be accepted
how do you go about becoming a member of
fcica
um so you can go to our website and
apply online or give us a call or send
me an email
um and we'll help walk you through the
process but for contractors it's 500 a
year
um and and you just apply online and
we'll um you know accept the membership
we also have as you said suppliers are
members and Distributors we have some
consultants and then our industry
Partners as well
so what about some of the spin-off
programs
more more specifically symptoms yeah one
you should mention that Jose is a Sim
which stands for certified installation
manager
um and that is a program that helps
provide education and certification to
our project managers
um or you know installation managers um
that you know all of our commercial
foreign contractors have
um it's an online program we also offer
an in-person program which Jose did with
us in Atlanta
um and that's three days to Sam and
that's called yep three days to send and
there are eight modules and they walk
you through
um everything from like once you receive
the estimate to
um like planning out the job all the way
to closing up
has has fcica ever considered
um
not a lower level of that but to me
there what we found with good Carrera is
there's a lot of installers that are
also getting Sim and it seems uh to me
like a no-brainer like we're going to uh
for anybody in the audience it's part of
our installer Network we're going to
start offering uh we're gonna ingest Sam
into the GoPro software and start
issuing Hammer rating on it because of
the professionalism and the the uh it's
more the mindset stuff right it may not
be a skill training with your hands but
it's it's super important for installers
to understand how to work with
contractors flooring contractors as well
as general contractors you guys are out
on out in the field you're out dealing
with superintendents and the project
managers on a daily basis and these are
this uh Sim program uh we have two sims
that Stewart and Associates as well and
the Sim program really gives you the the
skills and the the tools to be able to
deal with difficult people how to manage
job and also if you know what your
company is doing whatever shop you're
working with if they've been trained in
it too then you guys are kind of
operating in unison and you know what
the the company that you're working for
is looking to accomplish and how they're
going about things so you just work
better together so have you guys ever
considered like an installer level Sim
or a Sim it's affordable enough for
anybody but
um
has that ever come up at all
um not specifically an installer level
like creating another level but a lot of
the education that we provide so um we
do educational webinars online monthly
um and we have all of that um saved in a
learning management system that you can
access later so those are definitely
great steps and um kind of all geared
towards
teaching installation managers and it
would it's obviously applicable
applicable to installers as well gotcha
yeah I I think if if anybody in the
audience
um Ashlynn will uh we'll we'll actually
post
um some links to fcic as well as uh
maybe some direct links to the Sim
program and I would encourage any
installer it's on the uh huddle today to
uh entertain becoming a Sim uh
specifically if you run Cruise so if
you're if you're an install shop and and
you have 10 guys working for you or 100
guys working for you it's really
important that you understand how to
manage them efficiently uh Daniel or USM
as well sir no CJ keeps on bugging me
though
he will be someday so one more thing I
want to actually
sheds light on the back and from the
business right like it if it brings it
brings some of the scenarios that you
might not have had all the details for
uh up to the surface so that way you can
start paying attention to uh to bottom
lines and it it makes it so you're
dissecting your project a lot more than
just what you can see feel in touch well
and you're doing it in a way that you're
the company's been trained a lot of
there's a lot of Sims in the flooring
Contracting community and the the
company community so you're you're now
working like I said you're in unison
with them and not you don't wonder why
they do something you know why they're
doing a certain thing a certain way
because uh you've been trained as well
so I think it's great Daniel and I both
need to get simmed uh as I'm sitting
here I have some uh project managers in
the company that are Sam uh myself I am
not but uh me and Daniel ought to tackle
that together right there's actually
scholarship right huh people can apply
for the scholarship once that opens too
to try and yeah so we do thank you thank
you Neil for bringing that up we have a
scholarship
artists provides a scholarship every
year
with the scholarship winner speaking of
Partnerships that's another partnership
um yeah so you can apply for that
scholarship is that just online through
the is that the best ways like email you
yeah email us we do it um once a year so
we already selected the winner this year
but we'll do another one next year
um and for the audience's uh information
how much is this in
so if you have a discount if you're a
member of fcica so if you're a member
it's
1225 if you're a non-member it's
350 more than that and I can't do the
math it's like 15.
okay well go career is going to sponsor
uh a we'll do a um scholarship as well
oh great for next whatever the the
whether we can get it done for stocking
or not uh but uh we'll we'll offer uh a
scholarship as uh partner with uh fcica
uh Daniel and I cannot win is the Only
Rule
dang I was counting on that one so if if
there's anybody on the call that would
like to shoot a email to support a go
Carrera and we'll get you the
information
um get you hooked up with
with fcica and we'll uh offer us a uh
scholarship as well thank you thank you
you're welcome thanks for the
partnership awesome
so we're going to keep it short today uh
obviously we got like a lot going on
it's beautiful here uh but we have more
uh educational
um seminars to go to I just want to
mention once more that getting to
conferences and getting to conventions
and things like that I know it seems
like a lot but a few days out of the
year five or six days out of the year to
make it to two or three is well worth
your time and well worth your uh your
money because you you do create
Partnerships uh you know Jose was just
talking about working with wolf tools on
different stuff we've seen some awesome
really awesome
um
new tools coming out uh yeah I I want to
even present them to the go career
Community uh they're they're really uh
game changers when it comes to
installing uh specifically rolled sheet
Goods uh it's really some great stuff so
power Partnerships guys is really about
forming relationships uh to benefit us
all here in the flooring community so I
mean obviously we've got preferred
flooring we got Stuart Associates we got
scica go Carrera we're all here to try
to improve the industry so I apologize
this week is going to be shorter and
um than normal but I wanted to keep the
placeholder and and jump on here and
kind of chat through that a bit so
Daniel do you have anything to add sir
um no Jimmy other than you wish you were
here
and all that I mean it's it's 73 degrees
here today so it's not too bad it's been
pretty cold lately now it's warm as soon
as he leaves so
uh they just want to know what the email
is for the scholarship one more time
just so that way they can
support at
gocarera.com support gocareer.com or if
you either that or Ashland gocareer.com
Ashlynn either one will work and we'll
get you hooked up with the fcica to uh
figure out how we're gonna do a drawing
or however they do it we're just going
to piggyback on however they selected
the uh scholarship that I can't win
they'll put it right back in the till if
it's Daniel or I so
all right well hey everybody thank you
very much
um we appreciate you being here uh again
sorry for such a short uh huddle this
week I know we usually go 30 45 minutes
often an hour but uh this week we're
going to cut a little bit short yeah
it's it's gorgeous here but it's pretty
sticky uh outside and uh we got some
more learning to do so I want to thank
everybody once more and uh Daniel we'll
catch you thank you CJ for joining us
yeah
I appreciate being here awesome awesome
all right well thanks everybody that's
going to conclude it this week I think
that goes on record as our fastest
huddle it is 15 minutes boom I said
we're gonna try and keep the 15 minutes
and we did all right thanks everybody
and we'll catch you next week all right
have a good one bye
The Huddle - Episode 18 - Taking Care of your Tools
This week on The Huddle Paul, Daniel and Jose discuss taking care of all of your tools, the most important one being your body.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
all right well we'll kick this thing off
welcome everybody
to this week's huddle where we come to
you every single Tuesday with the
exception of two or maybe three over the
last uh almost every single Tuesday
um
and we like to discuss how to maintain
forward progress in your flooring career
so
whether that's growing your business in
different areas uh we talk a very wide
variety of topics in today's topic is uh
maintaining your tools
and that really starts uh with your body
being the uh number one tool that you
use in flooring and I know I got two
gentlemen with me today as always is
Daniel and Jose
and um they know a bit about uh
installing and and how to keep your body
from falling apart but I did think we
figured you know we could start with a
little bit of
um you know actual tools
um one of my pet peeves as an installer
uh in the old days and for sure when I
was out in the field every day
dirty patch trials or or somebody
leaving patch their trial and just
letting it dry or glue on a trowel and
letting it dry or whatever
um
pet peeve I'm just letting you know I
share the same one I know that trials
are not uh Ultra expensive but why spend
money where you don't need to by
breaking them when you try to scrape off
a half inch of floor patch or thin set
or whatever off of a trawl uh this seems
real low-key here but
it is my pet peeve but it's not about it
being expensive right it's about going
and grabbing it and getting ready to use
it and it's no longer
in the condition you need it to do a
good job and you don't have no notice
that that's that's where the pet peeve
comes in for me
well that and and uh like maintain you
know we all have much uh more expensive
tools or equipment that we need to
maintain uh I bring up the trial because
a mentor of mine at my let's says
how you do one thing's how you do
everything in a given you know vertical
so how you take care of your trial is a
pretty good indicator of what your van
looks like
almost guarantee you
you go up and you see a patch trial
that's just been Caked Up
time after time and it looks like crap
just go to their van I don't or their
their their truck I'd almost guarantee
you it's a mess uh same with if it's a
tile company or a tile installer and
their trials are you know caked full of
thin set or they're grout floats have
old grout on them and they're going to
try to scrape them clean when they need
them I I don't understand that like
thought process it's so much easier to
clean it when it's wet but
I've I've seen it a hundred times if
I've seen it won and
the point here that on actual tools and
equipment before we get to your your
physical health
um
the real the real fact is if you don't
take care of the trials your your saws
probably uh you know a mess you're you
probably have a dull wheel on your you
know your breaker board
um it's just all the you got to take
care of what takes care of you all right
we've hit on this before we've not done
an episode on it but we have hit on this
before uh in some previous episodes but
so anyway that's one of my pet peeves
what do you guys see out in the field
that really I mean Jose kind of chimed
in he shares that but what do you see on
here uh with uh different performing
Crews that like drive you nuts from a
maintaining your I mean these are your
assets that's another thing in your work
area
the work area right like
man just
there's no reason to throw scraps
everywhere and then have to clean it up
it's just as simple to keep it in the
pile and then pick up one pile at the
end of that room or the end of the day
or the end of the job
um and they have member that's always
been a pet peeve of mine
um Daniel knows it has been uh but that
along with the tools of course and uh
you you hit it right on the noses
clean trials usually equals clean
organized man and try to
everybody hated me for a long time
because at the end of the day I'd say
we're ready to go and I'd go outside the
band would be in shambles like everybody
just throw things in there I'm like ah
all the tools back out what it's 5 30.
it's six o'clock you know I I don't care
dude like if I don't know where they're
at then I don't want that in there like
that because I'm gonna have to clean it
all the tools back out it's going to
take 10 minutes for all of us or it's
going to take two hours of myself
that's the thing it's saving time the
next day just thinking about that trial
like the patching trials someone leaves
that patch on there and then you gotta
grab a four inch scraper and start
scraping that off and then you're
already looking at you know 15 20
minutes of just trying to get a tool
ready that should have been ready
right away
yeah yeah
and it kind of comes down to uh
Eduardo chimed in here and said howdy
guys and how it says this is true I I uh
I think I I share your
there's sediment there it's certainly
true and you know how you take care of
your body
um
I know this is a you know we're based in
flooring but the fact is is taking care
of yourself in any skilled trades
important I know this has come up like
uh
probably hit you know been more of a
topic uh in the recent years we kind of
talked about how uh the females in the
uh trade that we know
seem to do a better job of doing of
taking care of themselves than we do
whether in gloves or you know good knee
pads really caring but there's also
like the fact that you get up and down
in your joints and your knees and how
long do you expect
yeah hips how long do you expect a tool
to last well
you're you're one of the tools at your
disposal you're one of the major assets
so
um about five years ago uh
I when I was installing I was I was in
good shape
and then as I got into the office uh I
ballooned up to about 205 pounds and uh
so this last five years has been a
journey for me in taking care of my body
taking care of my health I'm 46 and
trying to you know
live as close to
you know 100
way to say that you ballooned up to a
weight that is still less than me thanks
well I I don't know did I show you guys
that picture of me yeah you did you did
not have fat pictures yeah
I mean you're looking at my fat picture
right now so
so the point is uh
like I'm not talking about weight loss
or whatever but I do have a lot of
experience in it now uh I've maintained
the weight loss for the last five years
uh I know these gentlemen have
uh dropped some weight over the years as
well and
like I I don't want to sound like I'm
preaching here but it it certainly is
important for you to take care of your
your body as best as possible being at a
weight that you feel comfortable with
that doesn't mean you have to be skinny
or super fit or whatever just a weight
that you feel comfortable working here
that's a good a good way to put it and
um you know
my 255 pound ass out there working my
knees are killing me a hell of a lot
more than they do when uh you know when
I decide to get out there now
um that extra weight you know you got to
just be at a comfortable weight
my doctor's terms I'm overweight like by
10 or 15 pounds I feel great at the
weight I'm at
um
but all that being said like proper
hydration making sure that you're
hydrated uh this isn't a fitness class
but it's certainly important to
understand that how you treat your body
how you treat your all your tools
everything that it takes for you to get
a job done is important
um so
we in fluorine are up down up down up
down all day long
um unless you're doing well twerking and
stretching and
some very odd positions to to get some
cutting done and then if you do the
flash cove you're always laying on your
belly yeah
yeah learn how to do things left-handed
I mean there's a lot of
a lot of Mind and Body coordination
that's got to go into a lot of what we
do as well
yeah so I mean it the the truth is you
know we don't do as much carpet in our
industry like real good broad Loom
carpet in the commercial world uh as as
back when I was installing but even
proper lifting of things that was a huge
deal I never got injured from lifting
carpet and I did it for years and years
and years and it was just lifting it
properly so remember to take care of
yourself don't get in such a doggone
hurry on a job that you're just yanking
stuff from one spot to the next and
injure yourself and what happens when
you injure yourself is you lose money
especially if you're a subcontractor uh
you're going to lose money you don't
unless you have workman's comp on
yourself
um
you're gonna lose some money you're
going to be sitting even if you do have
workman's comp you're going to go to
they'll cover your medical expensive I'm
going to cover your time off necessarily
uh being self-employed
um so
yeah I want to add to that too is um and
an injury isn't always noticeable right
away I will let you guys know that like
is something if you're doing something
the wrong way for an extended period of
time the injury might not be a torn
muscle or or you might not walk away say
oh I'm hurt right now but over the
course of five years ten years
um you could sustain some long-term
injuries by just not thinking things
through an improper technique yes that
creeps up on you all of a sudden
you're back whatever your knees so I
mean
take it with uh you know
take this how you
um and apply it to your life to your
career as you will but properly taking
care of yourself and thinking about your
next uh move when you're doing flooring
is important
um these guys get out there I've seen
guys going you know they're just getting
after it and I'll tell you a story we
have
um we had a guy on our cruise that he
was 34 and
awesome
CFI certified guy I think he got all the
uh was C2 certification uh had some
other trainings very very good installer
cared about his work but he went at
everything like he's killing snakes and
a couple years ago it's been about three
or four years ago him and his brother
were a team they were one of our subs
and they both quit and they went to
start driving trucks
making way less money but uh they were
doing
delivery truck driving paid by the hour
and
um one of them came back because of the
money the other one has made his life
work for the last three like I said
three or four years and he was a
wonderful installer we lost and the only
reason was because he just said my
body's breaking down he was 35.
my body's breaking down I can't keep
doing this forever
so that brings up a few things that
is probably past
um
is it real echoey when I talk
no okay uh
it brings up a few things
um you know first off
obviously like I said taking care of
yourself
not going at things so so crazily
um
and realizing that you've got a long
career ahead of you
but how many of these guys
that that
when we are talking about shortage and
labor you know having a
um
the next step after installation we've
talked about that in some podcasts and
there's opportunities out there whether
it's you know be an assessor with go
Carrera or a
you know a mill rep or a tech rep or
whatever there are some verticals
um we we aim to continue to improve that
but uh that's one thing the industry's
talked about a bit you know the life
expectancy of a flooring contractor I
say life expectancy you're in 10 years
and you die so it seems like it
sometimes I'm at the career expectancy
like how long are can you can you do
this right
um hey Eduardo said the belly is uh is
your third pad
uh
that's kind of funny
um
anyway doing some
some things to uh maintain your career
but then building your mind a lot we've
done a lot of uh podcasts huddles on how
to improve your skills and those kinds
of things that will allow you to move to
that next step in the future
um and maybe take a tech rep job or take
an assessor uh position any of that kind
of thing uh you got to build your mind
but also you got to take care of your
body I know a lot of old installers that
just didn't do it and they're paying for
it now I was on that path I didn't wear
knee pads and take care of myself
luckily I was not in uh you know every
day on my knees
for 30 years I got it I got up and and
uh started my company uh fairly early in
my career and was able to get off my
knees and probably you know 10 to 15
years or whatever it was but point is
take care of yourself guys gals uh in
fact guys talk to the gals because
they'll tell you how to do it uh but you
know maintaining maintaining
um
your your career really and keeping it
going forward like the Huddle says you
know forward progress is you gotta have
a body that's gonna stick with you
through this so I know balance for sure
what's that
so you got to find balance for sure you
know you can't have one without the
other
yep
and I know this is going to fall on a
bunch of deaf ears but uh because I'm no
fitness trainer or anything but I can
just tell you from experience I've
watched a lot of guys go down and uh I
just gave you an example of a guy that
was 35 and quit our industry we want to
talk about Labor shortage part of the
problem is you know some of these guys
by go at it so hard that by you know
year 10 they're ready to get off their
knees and get into something else
because their body's breaking down so
what are some what's your guys's
thoughts I'm not a personal trainer I
just thought we'd have an open
discussion about this yeah
um
because if we're talking labor shortage
and you got 35 year olds quitting
because their body's not keeping up what
do we do
number one thing for me man is I don't
care who you work with or who you work
under or what kind of competition they
make go invest in some knee pads right
away
right away man like
I didn't wear knee pads for I don't know
the first five six years of my career
and I'd like to get those five or six
years back to be honest with you because
there's a lot of moving Parts down there
man you
I was like I was a lot bigger when I
started a lot bigger in those five or
six years that's a lot of weight a lot
of movement on those knees and my shins
and my ankles and my back for improper
support
um you know it's a domino effect I would
say an epad would be my number one thing
you guys wear back braces I know a
couple guys as they install
it is a hit or miss on me and sometimes
yes sometimes no would you say Daniel
yeah sometimes I wear a back brace
it just depends on how messed up I am at
that moment yeah there's more uh where
where when you when you feel you need it
instead of trying to prevent right but
if you're down down doing BCT or you
know you're going to be down for you
know an hour and a half at a time I can
see a back break being very helpful
uh for that time and moving it yeah he's
63 and a half pounds a box moving that
crap around can uh catch up to you
pretty quick too
yes
so Rollin says that uh
he can do
let me see him find it
when you're 134 you can do what you want
he he
is uh maybe
the oldest man alive
still doing flooring he rocks by the way
you do a great rolling for for all the
years you've been installing brother you
ought to tell us what you what you've
done right and then uh Jorge says that
you know using power stretchers it's
where it's at let the tools do the work
for you and that's 100 damn it I wish I
would have thought of that that's
brought that point up that that may be
the most important point and Jeremy says
that playing softball helps keep you in
shape but
I think uh a lot of it has to do with
your diet because I I've seen him gain a
little bit of poundage over the years
maybe it's the bear in the softball
tournaments
I don't drinks much he doesn't he
doesn't drink okay well he just doesn't
eat vegetables
I I got a comment says health and
discipline go hand in hand with Career
Success
yes
I would agree so with what I'm thinking
is
um like Jose said that you know coming
in and not using knee pads and that that
really messed mess messed me up but
what I really didn't pay attention to
was the hips and just like uh walking on
Old adhesive and stuff my hips used to
kind of pop out all the time
and now
um I just had the weight loss surgery
like a year and a half ago and the
reason I got it was because during covid
one of my hips just went out on me while
we were on a job site like I went to go
stand up and I just went right back down
and I I couldn't do anything
so what was that what what do you think
that like
particular like what were you installing
what what was it the glue adhesive
walking on that for expense I think that
has a lot to do with it because I
remember coming up and then always
walking on that adhesive and taking
those steps and I would feel my hips
stretching but not only that it's when
you're installing you know you're
constantly have your legs out on an
angle and you're not really sure you
figure your posture and everything
you're just trying to get in the best
position to install
so what's the worst flooring to install
from uh
[Music]
from this with this perspective about
you know your body wear and tear my
opinion my opinion is VCT
because it's such small and compact you
don't think about it because of the size
and but you'll grab a box and you'll
rotate it you'll put a box here there
you'll reach you'll leave lean backwards
as far as you can Ben grab you know a
half a box with one hand and slide it
forward
um I think that I think VCT is probably
one of the ones that
got me the best of me over the course of
my installation career
um
only because of how much we did probably
that probably has a lot to do with it
too I did we did a lot of bzt when I
started it
um you just don't think about it uh
because it is so small and compact but
when you're working with a roll of
carpet or sheet buying them you're
you're like I gotta lift it here I got a
pivot here I'm gonna need help with that
now the damn carpet can be heavy and you
gotta get lights of stairs sometimes
can't fit it in elevators
uh you know you got a 60-foot drop on
the second floor it's not going in an
elevator at least not your normal size
elevator so I think that's that from I
would say carpet uh at water it says uh
says ceramic
oh yeah I I don't know
um ceramic to me has always been like
the oldest installers I know are in
ceramic tile
like the older guy I'm talking 60s and
70s
I had a I had a guy that worked for me
uh he retired when he was 72 and he came
back when he was 74 and worked till he
was 80. installing ceramic tile and
passed away he retired about 81 or
whatever and he worked for other uh
flooring contractors uh
flooring companies as well but
um his nickname was cowboy and he was a
hell of an installer but he he went on
forever dude it wasn't until he retired
that he ended up passing away about
three or four years later but uh of
course he was 83 at that point but he
couldn't he couldn't quit moving he was
one of those you know Sparky guys that
just could not sit still so tried
retirement on for a day or two and then
went back at it but
um resilient I mean all of it's hard on
your body don't get me wrong and Jeremy
says that he thinks that the the rolled
rubber flooring the the thicker stuff
three quarter inch oh yeah that's that's
what gets it for him and then the
adhesive that comes with it because you
gotta if you're not using two hands to
spread it you're not spreading it right
that is a good point that damn urethane
adhesive when you're doing a rubber
floor
man Dirk says that carpet was always
hardest on him and I kind of agree with
that especially
in the early part of my career because I
didn't know what a crab stretcher was
for a long time
it was the grab the kickers and
start kicking like kick this seam
together the glue's already set up and
this still gotta go so
so starting to sound like just every bit
of flooring gifts depends on what day
and what month it is right
yeah so they all have their they all had
their tough Parts I I do got to say I
remember doing a gym floor and you want
to talk about a sore elbow after
spreading that freaking urethane
adhesive for
all day long and then on top of that
everything's heavy
bulky that's a good point as well
what did uh what did
um the guy say about car oh the crab
stretcher that's a dang good
um comment as well I didn't have a crap
I didn't even know crab stretchers
existed for probably five years after
installing it was horrible
I could probably still I could probably
still break a cinder block with my knee
but I would prefer not to kick anything
with that thing anymore it probably
wouldn't walk for a few weeks after that
two knee braces
Robin says to keep in shape he still
plays Sports
but what he thinks is uh kept him going
for the 150 years so far is he's gonna
learn how to lift
and balance a load and he stretches uh
before he he starts working
there you go that's a good that's a good
points Roland's been around for a long
time
if if he says to stretch before you get
going that's probably a good idea he
also brought up like all the balancing
and all that and he hit on that
um as well Daniel is use equipment you
got for carpet you got carpet dollies uh
if you don't have a carpet dolly put a
piece of wood block of wood over your
two-wheel dolly lay it down and it will
work as a carpet dolly If the roll is
not too big you don't even need the
woods sometimes just put the carpet on
there and it sometimes it's still
working yeah as long as you're not going
I always did the little wood just
because they wanted to increase the
carpet too bad when I was getting ready
to install but
uh point is you know use equipment to
move your stuff around use
um you know like I said they they have a
lot of this I know that one of the
best tools and cheap models cheap bottle
rollers I mean sorry oh man right this
whole thing is about taking care of
tools right and taking care of yourself
I just
um replace the rollers on our sheet
vinyl cart because we use this so much
that the bearings went out yeah and
I'm not gonna go old school and start
rolling it again I actually bought
another one and then replaced the the
stuff so that now we have two and then
he got another one for free from
somewhere so we got three and it's well
we've just kind of went full circle
right there on how taking care of your
tools can take care of your body yeah
keeping that stuff up to you know stuff
um and keeping your tools in good shape
and demo tools too I know the some of
the demo tools are expensive but you
know we were on a project a few months
ago and the guys had
um big you know
um hammer drills basically one inch
hammer drills with a a flat paddle on
the end taking up DCT
they beat their asses to death excuse my
French
for hours doing that they were wasted
after tearing up 3 000 feet now I know
that some of the tools that Danny sells
over at Wolf
uh can be expensive uh or even the
Nationals
um but investing in some of those uh
self-propelled demo machines demo we
didn't bring up demo
especially Lee's wet set oh beat my ass
several times still does we just we just
had some guys carrying some off of a
stage and I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry
to the preferred team my apologies but
uh a wood a wood stage by hand and one
inch strips and it uh one week man for
like 100 yards I mean it was it was
pretty bad
yeah you got like the trifecta you can't
even use a real good demo machine on a
wood stage
no we tried everything did you try the
carpet puller yep the
tried the carpet floor tried the the
turbo machine tried the we call it the
mini turbo I don't even know the real
name of it
the Duro Duro Duro Duro stripper we
tried that with the blades upside down
backwards sideways
I just know even when you do your best
you're going to end up doing something
that's why you got to stretch
I hope you guys stretch before that
stage because that sounds like a pain
I'm just saying like that demo if you
can you know in commercial we're
typically on concrete slabs most of the
time and I know there's a lot of
residential on the coasts and you know
different areas that's uh concrete slab
uh in in the midwest there's a lot of
wood substrate with basements and so
it's hard to to use a heavy machine or
even some of the demo machines that just
tear the wood apart
um but there's other like for tearing up
carpet glue down carpet you know that
right carpet puller the old cage puller
that thing you know we we've got two of
them one of them's been I mean I've
literally had it since like 90.
596 bought it from my boss that I worked
for at the time I guess I actually owned
it since 99 but uh I was using that same
machine in in 95 96 so they last a long
time
uh a lot of this equipment cost you a
few thousand bucks but if you take that
over lost time wear on your body and
long-term Health they're worth the
investment guys in my opinion yeah and
Jorge brought up uh furniture moving
that's hard on your body oh man they got
Furniture slides for that
Furniture slides of slings that go under
you know those types of people air sleds
holy smokes I remember the first time we
used those I would I think I went home
and moved my refrigerator just for fun
you know I've been wanting to clean
behind this thing let me use this
funny
yeah though so using equipment taking
care of the equipment takes care of your
main piece of equipment which is your
body and you you think like we have uh
one of our
the first ride on removal machine that
we bought we bought
over 10 years ago and it's just crazy to
think that it's been that long because
especially this guy over here he's like
man we just bought that we bought it
like 10 years ago
and it's it's still working I mean the
bad the they don't sell the original
charger for it anymore so it beeps all
the time which is super annoying but I
mean it's it's still doing its job it's
still running
yeah I just put new batteries in mine
about six months ago my national
yeah maintaining it not the cheapest
thing to do but the the big picture
dude there's it's an investment I would
have to had 30 guys
uh to take care of what that machine's
taking care of for me over the years
it's there's no comparison
to like 30 guys and how many man hours
it would have taken and that machine's
probably only got you know it's probably
got less than a thousand hours on it
yeah
yeah yeah so the the
get the right equipment maintain that
equipment take care of it and take care
of your body and if you do all that same
time you're actually
your equipment will take care of you as
well
working Gerardo saying that the chat
isn't working so I if he has a question
he can just type it on this uh q a right
oh yeah it looks like the chat Works uh
sorry Eduardo but if uh
oh yeah so Jocelyn says uh make sure
y'all eat food is the food food is the
fuel needed for the job that's a good uh
that's a good point don't forget to eat
take care and oops I'll throw in there
try to eat decent food if you can I know
when I was in out in the field all the
time I mean it's hard not to just go
grab the you know fast food joint down
the street but the the gas station hot
dog yeah the speed dog hot dog
uh we did have a guy that worked for me
for many many years that always every
single day had a peanut butter and jelly
sandwich and two bananas
that's what he had he had um himself a
little little deli sandwich an apple and
a banana and water that's oh yeah the
Tomato he's the one that taught me how
to not cut up the tomatoes and put it on
the sandwiches bring it and take bites
of it while you're eating your sandwich
so it doesn't get soggy and when I was
working with him that was man that was
about 15 years ago and he was already in
his late 70s and still healthier
physically than a lot of the young guys
that were early mid-20s uh not taking
care of themselves I learned a lot from
that guy
what was his name
Stan
Stan uh what was his last name Daniel
I'm drawing a blank on his last name I
should know it
Johnny knows if he's in there he left
already
eat good food not Casey's Pizza
eat good food not Casey's Pizza I think
that uh that's probably my favorite stop
uh someone says
eat rotisserie chicken and keep gaining
muscle
protein
all right well I know this was a little
um
you know maybe uh better suited for a
fitness podcast but the truth is that
you don't take care of yourself your
number one tool and you don't buy the
right equipment take care of your
equipment your number one tool is going
to let you down uh I've seen it happen
and I've experienced it with our crews
um so I'd encourage everybody to take
care of yourself
lift right use your equipment
work smart not hard uh you can do both
actually but work smart for sure and
um you know
try to keep your career going for for
many many years I I mean there's
examples of plenty of guys who make it
for years and they're usually the guys
that took care of themselves so easier
to work harder when you have the right
equipment because you're you're not
tearing yourself up doing everything
well I'm the freaking equipment it's
funner than pulling up carpet with you
in one inch strips hell of a lot better
to jump on a piece of equipment and you
use a a turbo or something like that
that's yeah and until it goes through a
wall well it's always collateral damage
better proper use of the equipment
proper use of the equipment proper use
all right guys you guys got anything in
closing on this uh little uh shorter of
a podcast
take care of your mental health as well
mental health has a lot to do with you
with your physical if you're not if
you're not correcting yourself mentally
or or consciously making an effort to to
to take care of yourself mentally then
the physical part isn't even going to
matter
um you're just not going to care at some
point I think sometimes they go hand in
hand like uh yeah I go see a therapist
through the bariatric place that I had
surgery at because you know
it is it's a it's a huge change and not
only that it's like they said you ever
need to talk to anyone about anything
definitely you know
give us a call and there was one point
where I was like yeah it's time to talk
to someone and it does a lot man it
really does all you got to do is
all it is is essentially event session
with someone that's not gonna say
anything or judge you and sometimes
that's all you need get past that stigma
yep yeah yeah
that's great advice guys I I I
tell you what
it's pretty easy to get down these this
you know when when the economy and you
got Wars and all this stuff and I don't
want to bring any negativity in uh to a
great degree but
taking care of your mind you know
compare yourself to your yourself
yesterday and not other people uh that's
a trick that one of my mentors taught me
is like you don't compare yourself to
other people you compare yourself to
your the version of you that was
yesterday and the version of you you
want to be and then you're just building
upon what you've done yesterday and you
can make those little one percent
changes and uh it makes a big difference
in your mindset makes a big difference
uh you know Daniel just told you man it
goes hand in hand taking care of your
mind and taking care of your body and a
good good strong mind usually equals
good strong body and not always but you
know they do correlate
um and then take care of your equipment
and by the way
Andy McWilliams started a group on
Facebook it's called Uh mind and body
for the flooring trade
so
what does it cost to jump on that mind
and body for the flooring trade
and that's on me that's what it's called
that's on Facebook group yep yeah it's a
group yeah
shoot that out we'll post this in our
social uh I would I'm interested in that
myself
yeah he's got some good some some good
motivation uh motivational posts on
there there's there's a good following
on there as well awesome
one of the best things that I've learned
on there is something that he posted
when he said it's none of my business
what other people think about me now I
live my life like that that is 100
the best advice ever I've heard that
same before it's hard to live by
sometimes it's like you know because we
do care about how we're perceived as
humans just the very nature but damn if
you could take that advice and take it
to heart
yeah that's a big Improvement right
there so awesome guys thanks again for
joining us this week I appreciate all
the comments and the Q and A's I didn't
get to every one of them I apologize
um but we do appreciate the uh
interaction and the uh you know
participation so we'll see you guys next
week and uh until then guys have a great
week all right stay safe
all right see you guys see ya
thank you