The Huddle - Episode 77 - Making the Industry One
This week the guys are all together in Michigan to discuss bringing the entire industry together, from installers of all disciplines, to companies, distributors, affiliations, training entities and more.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle come at you every Tuesday except
this one at 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your
flooring career special episode I'm up in Grand Rapids with the uh preferred flooring
company making up of a great group of people but with me as always is Daniel
and Jose Gaz what's up guys so um today's episode is
uh I'll break it down a little different than the topic it's really about coming together as one as as a installation
group and and as a greater industry um speaking of that we had a great round
table last night with a bunch of installers here it was absolutely
fantastic uh had a great time some some people zoomed in somewhere here live uh
just an open Q&A and the purpose was to get input um from the installer
perspective you know on things that go Carrera can do to uh you know further
improve the life of the installer what what other uh tools or uh features
benefits deals all that kind of stuff so some great stuff came out of that and
excited to get back to witcha and uh you know decode with my team and talk to uh
you know Daniel and Jose as part of that and uh you know kind of come up with
some programs and some things that that we've uh gathered from that so it was really cool I'm glad everybody came if
you're in the audience at the moment and you were here last night thanks for coming uh they brought in some tacos
from I got to give a shout out to lailis uh yeah they they uh have the
best horn tacos that I've ever had and the corn tortillas did not fall apart
and I've told everybody about it so you might as well hear it too uh they were fantastic
anyway so today's topic is uh you know we we've touched on some of this stuff
in the past uh but it's always worth remembering that you know installers a
lot of times we have um a bit of a limited mindset from the perspective of like there's plenty of
work out there for all of us uh we attack I mean if you get on the Facebook groups you can see there's there's guys
and and probably gals as well uh attacking you know the quality of other
people um I would love we were talking last night with some of the installers here I'd love for a for a
social uh platform where we come together and we're like hey I
see some things you know that maybe you see a picture of a of a project that you see some flaws in you're like hey man
how long you been doing that how long you been laying sheet Von or carpet or whatever it is and uh you know oh three
years well hey I got some I got some tips for you I've been doing it for a long time and I made some of those same
uh some some of those same mistakes if you want some you know some advice or um
you know mentorship or uh guidance or some access to trainings I mean just
more helpful um it doesn't really matter if you're commercial
residential uh hardwood sheet vonle whatever we're really in this for the same purpose you know um do good work at
least this is this is as I see it I'm sure everybody has their own reasoning here but uh from my perspective it's
like we're here to do good quality work in our Craft um I have a big heart for
like trying to raise our industry uh the respect of our industry where uh you
know we're not always um God I don't have a great word other than crap on uh
when it comes to commercial jobs from a scheduling perspective that we get our ample time to do our craft in the in the
the way that it should be done um and uh you know over all we make a
good living doing so um so the more we can share with one another that's going
to give us and and come together as a community and that's you know frankly what go career offers as a community of
installers um I think we can you know make some meaningful change with manufacturers make some meaningful
change where you know the specifications require a certain level of installer so
that you're competing with like uh quality installation professionals and you're not you know the one of the
toughest things in our industry is guys who have been doing it for many many years and um are highly efficient and
highly professional and so charge more for that that they're competing with someone who kind of just got started and
we all have to start somewhere but we should be competing with like quality um
you know installers and all that being said that's my opening spill
uh um what do you guys think like when it comes to this kind of you know we
just proved it last night we're doing it now like coming together as a community that right so even last night you know
we were talking a little bit before this it's we had guys here that we don't all
do the same thing right and then some of us did do the same thing but we're all
looking at each other as partners I'm going to lean on them when when I need help they're going to lean on us when when they need help and that that's the
way that the industry should be like um on Thursday on Thursday I'm going to go out to Indianapolis and help uh you know
a fellow installer with some some forbo he's like will you come out here please
just I don't want to mess this up and I'm like let me let me see what I can do
excuse me and I mean and I was talking to my wife about
it last night and I was like I'm I'm going to go out there and she's like why I said because if I asked him I knew he
would come over here and help us 100% especially bring tacos that dud we we'd have to make them and
Daniel's hitting on it too is uh you know when when you're coming up to the trades and nobody's there to have your
back and you are trying to make a living right and you you find a future it's a tough pill to
swallow feeling like you're in over your head on more than one discipline right
um but it's very comforting knowing that there's people to lean on in the industry that you can pick up the phone
and call a Paul call her Daniel call her Jose and say I might be in over my head I don't know do you have any information
or like I'm just not comfortable 100% I don't want to mess up come help brother
out help out it's just it wasn't it wasn't like that 20 years ago
it wasn't like that 10 years ago and to see that there is a shift because people
are starting to to lift our trade um it's it's it's a nice feeling nice warm
fuzzy feeling inside knowing that there are people out there um that want to see everyone else succeed right
um well part part of that's the work we're doing this is selfless I mean I
mean we don't get paid to be uh you know here every Tuesday you know shooting the
podcast and and you know it's not even necessary the the thing is is that we
want to give information freely where we can in our expertise I don't know
everything but what I do know I'm willing to share and try to help out and you guys have helped us and I've tried
to help you just as companies I mean you know on the company level of a flooring
contractor helping one another out um and I think that the installing Community ought to have even more of
that faing more of that like let's band together let's try to do good work
Elevate our trade I mean I've said this before on the podcast and I stand by it
I think our from a hand skills perspective flooring is one of the um
what probably the most demanding from a hand skills perspective and not not far
behind on a knowledge base I mean we got to know chemistry of different types of basically you got to be a scientist in
order to do commercial flooring and an engineer there's there's a lot of different aspects yeah I mean it takes a
lot of math skill it takes a lot of hand skill and it takes a lot of thought when you're doing a a complicated you know
pattern project or something so helping one another out coming together as an
industry and helping improve our day-to-day lives on projects that's like
that's part of the key you know um I love our general contractors I know you guys love yours but at the end of the
day we still have to uh realize that when we're on job sites with them that we have to we have
to have our time to do you know an effective project and an effective
installation buying materials getting them delivered to the to the site is part of the deal and then the most
important part no matter how pretty that project product looks for the project to
look pretty is the install and so um you know that's where we hope that the
podcast adds some value to people who are just getting started or some who maybe been in in the industry for a long
time but doesn't have uh you know there's always these little nuggets you can learn and I've learned from you guys
and I hope I've been able to bring some value to the table as well and then I love doing this podcast with you guys so
yeah i' would say that um you had mentioned the comments earlier
about uh you know about a platform where there could be conversation where you're building up and helping um and you're
absolutely right um we have a thing where we don't we go on a project that
that might not be performing the way it should or look the way it should we don't ever go on a project and Bash
another flooring installer we don't ever do that have we ever done that if I told you no I'd be lying right in my younger
my younger years yeah probably like I want you to look at me like like I'm better like I'm who you need um but as
you get a little bit older you realize it doesn't really do anything to make you look bad the I don't know under what
circumstances the installer had to do that install I don't know what skill set or knowledge base they had so it's hard
for me to go and Bash someone right even though they try to try coers it out of
you well is this done right how is this how would you have done right and it's just like hey no it's not about how I
would have done it it's about what what conditions were they installing under here at the time I've had plenty of
times dude I've been told we can't do additional floor pre and you're just going to have to lay it and that's going
to be what it is yeah we've been on job where where the other there there's multiple you know installers there and
then you walk over here and you see them like they were gluing right to jip creete and it's like what are you guys
doing they told us that we're not getting paid for any prep so we're just
installing yeah I mean we have done that and had to do that I mean like it was just that was the deal and if somebody
goes back and looks at that job in 5 years and is like and a new property manager making stuff up here but in a
scenario where it's a new manager or something over that property and they're like well what would you have done it's
easy to say at that point well I would have floated that damn floor out uh first off I would have skimmed it I
would have done this I would have done that you know I would have asked the sheet rocker to fix the wall so the base
isn't all we and I mean there's a lot that that you know I would have done well you're just not in the scenario and
it's impossible to um to do that so attacking situations or putting down
other installers um it just typically doesn't you know it doesn't turn out in favor of
you uh I like how you got you were talking about it uh last night I can't remember the scenario but it was more of
like well I'm not going to say what should have or shouldn't have been done uh I can't trying to remember that uh
conversation but it was basically like I'm not going to say but I can tell you what we need to do now kind of thing
yeah and um if that client is receptive to hearing the proper installation
techniques then awesome if they are not then you
know you could be made fun of in five years so it's like you know um so again
building one another up helping each other get trained you know if you know another installer that that needs a
helping hand I mean Daniel you're going out help and on the that flip side too if you are that installer that needs
help right it's nice to know that there's people out there where he just you know he he was he got in I mean we
started this conversation maybe a month ago where he's like I got this project that I'm looking at putting numbers to
where would you be at you know what all goes into it so that way he had an idea
and then all the way down to I got the project what tools do I need and then
getting down to the nitty-gritty like hey this project starts next week I'm
still not comfortable you know 100% will you come help me so that way I know that is going to be done right it it takes a
lot out of someone to actually be like I don't know what I'm doing will you come
help me it's it's a comfort thing too right like when when you have the basic
knowledge and the basic idea of the flooring and and the discipline that you're working on that's one thing but it's
applying that comfortably because you're second guessing yourself once you start second guessing your uh your knowledge
base you start overthinking and like oh I'm missing something because now now your thoughts and your process is scattered but and it's just one of those
things where Daniel could do it in his sleep he's done it a hundred times right and it's just like uh if someone was
here doing a a shower I would be I'd be more than happy to help I know a little
bit I don't know enough but I would I would I would be a fly on the wall I would be a helper and I'm pretty sure
I've offered to many people like hey if you have a project going on you just need extra hand I'll be a fly on the wall just to learn don't pay me no
nothing I like to learn um because I like to absorb information I know I'm
going to learn something rand's watching he says he's Lov that we're sitting across from each other this week yeah
across the country but across special guest who decided to join on his own
cogn there his brother was just here a few minutes ago was yeah that's funny this
is our our nephew Flo how's it going I myself they don't answer
back no your hand that's another thing too you guys uh you know safety right like so if we're talking about lifting
each other and and and building one another so that way we can all have careers safety is a huge part of it
um I'm going to ask him I know the answer how'd you cut yourself I was holding the scraper up and tightening
the screw with it up in the air I pulled it towards myself when someone was teaching you how to change the blade
what's the first thing they sold you keep it on the ground so yeah so
uh safety is important is the key listen and learn you can't you can't continue
success and continue getting better if you if you don't incorporate safety because then you get you get shy you
know you start steering away from the things that that hurt you and I think we talked a little bit about fear last
night right and in relation to to moving forward in life fear controls a lot of
your future decisions and what you do and that's one of the things too is if
you do a project in if if somebody does a for Bowl they don't have or does a
four bow install doesn't have any any help and and very little experience and it fails the chances of them going back
and trying and receiving another project or accepting another project um with that material is slim to none because
they already failed well the problem there is that you know it gives pretty much everybody a bad name I people start
pointing their fingers at the manufacturers right and and you have to start thinking in terms of their part of
this industry too and are there some products out there that are inferior
100% but you have to start giving even the the manufacturers the benefit of the doubt like they're not trying to
manufacture that product that's going to fail they're trying to manufacture good products and when you throw them under the
bus it's not a good look for you either yeah right it's always a partnership
it's I don't know why it failed it's not this is because of this product that's why I hate them it's we don't know why
let's start investigating and get down B because a lot of the the product that
you know we've ripped out and they're like I never want to use this product again it wasn't not the manufacturer's
fault it some of it wasn't even the installer's fault it it goes all the way down to the people that are doing the
maintenance on the products not cleaning it properly flooding it stuff like that so it's it's not only lifting your
fellow installer it's knowing that you know we're all in the same industry what can we do to all help each other out and
once you start looking at it from that mindset you actually have manufacturer is that if you call them for an issue
they W will 100% have your back because they know that you do the same for them yeah I've had plenty of times where
we've had to install what appears to be an install issue or a product failure a project I
should say uh issue and if you've taken
care of your vendor and you're because there's plenty of time times when we've
seen um a problem with a job and heard the same thing like I'm never using this product again I'm like there's so much
more to the performance of a product than just the manufacturing and there's more than just
installation you have your part to taking care of this facility as the
owner and site conditions and changing of site conditions I've got this Friday
I'm going out to uh look at a project where you know they they've got some bubbling issues on some um sheet Goods
vinyl sheet goods and and uh come to find out in this area of the facility
they completely turn off the the uh HVAC system every every break if it's
Christmas break spring break oh no summer they completely just shut it off and I'm like well you realize what that
does to the flooring that's not the manufacturer that's not the the product's fault
and it's also nothing that we could have done differently a year and a half ago
when we installed it so looking at uh looking at problems that way and and
being willing to kind of figure out what what the real issue is um and not
necessarily you know casting Stones as they say I think it's important to uh
figure it out I know that's off the off the rails a little bit from the original
discussion but it all back it all ties back to like working together to improve
the industry improve our reputation as a skilled trade in this industry and um
you know getting that respect I mean there's nothing better feeling to me than when we are like the 800 pound
gorilla on a job every once in a while you got a product that they're like the
Waring guys are coming in especially epoxy I like doing an epoxy epy because
it's like the epoxy guys are going to be here next Tuesday everybody has to get
out of here and I was like man I wish I had that pull with lvt square format you guys can he it out
yeah Square format can you guys start in this back closet over here do this room over
here install the shelving and everything and then you can install the FL so to
add on to what you you were saying about that them turning off the HVB and and some of what you learn you don't learn
in the book you learn over over time or or by by bumping elbows with with an
installed that's been in the industry for years there's a lot of scenarios that that can only come through
experience um and and you know it it sucks to find out the hard way but it
that's just the nature of the Beast sometimes uh like the she is bubbling up right like I'm pretty sure we've run
into that before and you know until we hit that we didn't know we thought we did something wrong but you know if it
did it right away the moisture that built up between that sheet vinyl affected the adhesive and there you go a
lot to it I guess that goes back to like the original discussion about how skilled our trade really is and the
science and the the science and the chemistry that you have to understand between different types of adhesives and
different backing systems uh we talk about that a lot and you know flooring's pretty unique that way um so my ploy to
all the uh audience uh to all the installers and companies as well value
the installation uh team that you have whether they're subs or hourly or both
um you know help find training it's one of the things at the flooring company
that I realize we could do better at is identifying where are uh guys and uh
where our team's deficient and uh addressing that through training I I
talk a lot about training and I believe in it and it's not that we don't do training but be more cognizant of where
the skills can be improved and what skill sets um uh maybe need a little bit
of work and then you know address those whether it's training in in house you
know company trainings or whether it's uh you know getting into an industry training but um all in all it's
it's important that we all realize that the company needs the installation community and the installation Community needs the companies and we got to Value
the companies we work for uh if you're an installer and companies we got to
Value the installation Community right I think if you look at like some of the groups that are focused more on like the
stores and you know the bigger contractors that that hire subs and then
you see a job go south and then they they're just in there bashing
the installer right when they didn't do their due diligence on what that installer is capable of and and S you
know it could have been a site visit when they first started and then you're
like oh maybe we got to back up a little bit because you said that you knew how to do this but you don't and what can we
do in order to get you there so because you don't want to just go through installers
like just cycling through them right you you want to make sure that they know
what is going on so that way when you need them they're there for you yeah
well and um cheapest isn't always the right you
know that the the old saying that uh the the wrong guy at the right price is
still the wrong guy you know yeah so so you know uh uh you want
to be cognizant to make sure that the skill of that of that person matches the skill requirement of
the job and that takes skill on your part as the company to assess that
that's what we do otherwise why wouldn't a GC just hire Subs themselves right and and some some of that is um I'm a face
Toof face conversation type of person right like I I like to have that real person reaction so some of it is when
you ask a question you know your answer right away if they comfortable or not I
mean the human face gives a lot away especially when you know you're asking them and they can't just try and Google
it real quick we were talking about that yesterday about stuff like that Jake's on here too what's up Jake what yeah
question you got he says uh starts with guys that deal with the customers to allow your helpers to see
you in action and just be being that person
that that's great at communication a lot of people don't don't have that strength
especially the younger people I think because we're in the this technology age
right where they grew up with technology everyone is just texting each other and you don't get a lot of that that face
to-face interaction with strangers and it's just a strength that you kind of have to have especially when you're
dealing with you definitely got to learn those communic rights especially on like the residential side I think it's very
important because you're dealing with that homeowner and you're going into that house and it's like this is my
pride this is what I've worked for my whole life yeah and then if you go in there and you don't know how to talk to
them or your body language is like really far off body or body
odor got to look to your leadership and and see someone doing it and then really
it's um following that example right well whether it's good or bad on the
other side of that you don't want to follow in the 90s when I started installing uh there was you know
obviously there were more installers in um they each of the mechanics even at
the hour when I worked by the hour um I had to pick it up a lot of
times because my mechan the mechanic I was working for didn't want to show me for fear of like me taking their
position or and it was just that that whole uh thing and it I I've read that
in the Facebook groups like you know you're training your replacement kind of thing come on like you're
not if if if you look at it that
way um I would I would challenge you to make sure that your that your skills are
where they need to be yourself you know what I mean like because if you're really really good somebody that you
train is not going to come just take your your stuff over um and that's one
of the things and I'm I'm proud to say that go career is trying to tackle is not having these new guys wrestle with
you know old experience and I don't I don't mean old in age but experienced
installers 40 Old 40 yeah 43 exactly well we we had a guy last night that
thought 43 was old so um but you know the you're not training your replacement
maybe eventually maybe when you want to be replaced but you know you're training
people to work alongside you and the way that eventually uh what I found out is
you got to gain the trust of that that uh installer that mechanic and once you
gain their trust then they're more than happy to help you so a word to the wise for both if you're working with the
mechanic is like give them time to to learn to trust you and then honor the
the time with them spend I mean if you're a new installer you ought to be with somebody for several years before
you think you're going to go out on your own and start doing something or even if you work by the hour trying to get in a
position where you're you know a lead or something like take your time make sure you're learning from these guys and go
alongside them I mean companies like ours you know we're hoping that our our our senior installers are are training
the other guys and then we move them aside them it's not a replacement it's like now we got two Crews and we can use
a bunch of Crews you know and not only that I mean just the the construction industry in general there's going to be
a lot of people aging out in these coming years right and then they're going to need people to fill those roles
so you say you're not training your replacement but at the same time there's going to be a point where you're like yes I want to train you because I need
to get off my knee I need a replacement yeah I I like I need someone to replace
these skills or else you know there's going to be a void there there I think I
think there's a big lack in training the Next Generation anyways just because of that notion of I don't want to train my
my replacement and it it happens a lot not even just like in the flooring
industry if you go to like the serving industry any kind of like mechanic yeah
mechanics or like special trait you do with your hands in a sense people are afraid of losing their clients afraid of
giving up the edge that they have that they work so hard to get to so and and and that's the that's the hard
part about any line of work that you're in right like if you're if you're in the line of business where you feel that
you're training your replacement then maybe you're you're not working with the right group maybe maybe you need to to
work with someone who is going to allow the growing or who wants to grow with you and I think the hardest thing to
recognize is that when you're training someone you
you you're training them in hopes that they do take over um one at least one of your disciplines
one of your skill sets that you have because then it frees you up to focus on other things whether it's personal growth or business growth you got to
look at it like that you they're alleviating some of my stresses so that way I can focus on other things as well
and then if you have the right people they grow with you but a lot of people get mad
like you train someone and they're really good and they have hand skills soft skills uh chances are that you know
you got a what what a entrepreneur right entrepreneur like you
can't it doesn't matter what you do what you teach them they're eventually going to leave anyway um and build something
for themselves unless they have no reason to leave but which that's very hard to do but well I had a lot of Pride
when I train you know I have three or four guys that make a living in this industry because I trained them so I
don't care they never replaced me like I replaced my current self at that moment
anyway you you know I kept trying to strive for more anyhow the only way you're going to get replaced is if
you're stuck in the mud yourself so continue your own training continue your own uh um uh advancement if you are an
absolute expert in one field May or in one discipline maybe pick up a second
discipline I mean there's ways that you can continue to outpace anybody that's
going to try to replace you and you ought to have pride that you've trained somebody to have a skill that can put
food on table for their family I have a lot of we're look at it in terms of so
um there's a guy you know we're still really close with and he was one of the people that when I started he was
teaching me and it it's you know to the point now where you know we're still
really good friends you know he'll he'll come in here we'll talk he'll do some jobs for us and he'll straight up say
I'm so proud of what you've done and he he never looked at it like I was trying
to take his stuff he never looked at said it like this is my competition he's like he did he he taught me whatever he
knew and now it's to the point where he's like I'm so proud of everything that you've done like I never would have
thought when you were I don't know 14 years old that this is where you'd be but this is awesome and that that's we
need more people like that yes yeah yeah be proud of training somebody and and
giving them the set of skills that you know puts food on their table and gives them a life uh you know a skilled trade
that they can take anywhere I mean that's that's one of the one of the key benefits of learning a a skilled trade
and being expert level at it I don't care where you go I mean I could just I
could move to any place in this nation and within a few days have a job still
yet today I have enough skill left in these old hands to be able to figure that out you know like you have there's
a sense of security to know I can still go do that no matter what you know
um so train the Next Generation be proud to train the Next Generation be proud to
be one of them that that expand the industry in that way there's no shortage of of uh people there's no shortage of
the need let me put it that way there's a shortage of people there there's no shortage of need so you're not going to
train uh a replacement as long as you're outpacing uh and trying to get better
yourself all the time anyway I mean I know tile guys that have trained multiple other Tile Guys and and we've
given uh the new these guys when they go out on their own work but they're never going to get the same work that we give
you know that core guy I don't think what a lot of people really understand is when
you're training that person and you're going back through the steps yourself you're refining your skills on that
particular subject when you're teaching those basic skills so that new person that's a really good point that is a
really good point yeah and so when was it was that this week or last week when we started doing the NCT last week last
week so we started doing um the NCT substraight and subf floor class just
put it up up here and we all watched the video together right um and then we all
did the test but it it really it was nice because we can pause the video and
explain this is what they're talking about this is you know real world example or or really refine it right
because I enjoyed it because a lot of this I a lot of the stuff is like you watch it one time you take the test and
then it's done you'll probably never you know think about it again but you you do
pick up that that little bit and in order to for for them to gain the knowledge I'm over there learning right
alongside with them again and I mean
I think one of the issues too is that a lot of people don't like the classroom setting so that's why we're doing stuff
out on the job site with our hands and stuff right but it's still it doesn't matter you know what
industry you're in it's necessary because you need that along with your hand skills in order to to be the full
package well I thought it helped to just doing that together because it uh it helps us see that like you don't know
everything yourself like you don't have everything together like we think you do because like learning from you guys we
kind of paint the picture of oh they're the goat they know how to do everything so even close to the truth so
like they don't fail they don't do this they do that oh I didn't know that you guys were perfect like when we're learning and they're like oh you did
that wrong but it's just scenarios right so so like um everybody has their strengths and
weaknesses Daniel he's way better at quoting uh specifics for standards and
and like almost verbatim out of the book I'm not like that I will change the verbiage the wording so that way I
understand it and also so that way you understand it you understand it differently than he does Paul understands it differently than all of
us right so it's a matter of finding that that correlation and relation for whoever the crowd is and whoever you're
teaching right and that's where learning from multiple different people um has a benefit um even if it is the same
discipline so that that's you know I find it I find it a little interesting that the topic is coming together you
know kind of bringing the industry as one and we we end up on training and
communication right not not because we came off of the topic it's because it's so core to the topic so core and so
important to that we are one right and it's not I'm Gonna Keep all these secrets it's I'm gonna sit there and I'm
going to learn with you and the knowledge that I give you and the knowledge that we're learning together I hope you take that and
expand on that and be better than I ever was right that that's the goal in every
think of it in terms of kids you always want your kid to be better than you did you should always want the person that
you bring in the industry to be better than you are 100% so I mean crystal is a
great example I mean like people talk crap to me all the time oh Daniel who
you know Crystal's better than you 100% like he's better than me and that was the goal the whole time that's a pride
moment yeah yeah that that's what's important so training uh having pride in the people that you are training that
their success is really the success of you as a teacher you as an individual and a human uh and the way that you care
about other people and and U so like their success is your success uh I I
encourage everybody to um and I only mention this because a I I I witnessed
it myself when I got in the industry and I still see it on as a um a thing out in
the you know Facebook world uh someday we're going to do I think in 2024 some
of these uh review Facebook comments and and comment on them but uh that could be
fun but the the point is is that still is there this this this idea that I'm
going to train my replacement so I don't want to teach them right well or I don't want to teach them too
much it again just to reiterate if you're always improving you won't get
outpaced and your your pride ought to be in how well you're teaching someone else
um and your pride ought to be at how good they are you have pride in what you guys have taught Crystal and how
Crystal's picked up on the industry and how good she is I mean we all know and if you don't know she's pretty eff and
good uh she you know competes on a national level at the installation
competition so um but that's that's a moment of Pride that's a thing that that should be
a good thing not that you're training your baby sister to to take over your job you know like I I don't quite get
that and so I get a lot of uh Pride out of the guys that I've been able to teach I get Pride when uh you know our hourly
staff we we can we've sent them to trainings and they've gotten to increase their earning potential because of that
so uh yeah that's that's what we mean when we're talking about coming together as one and and building the industry the
strength of the installation Community from a uh skill and ability perspective
and uh respect uh for one another we can build a great industry it starts with us
interacting together starts with communication and people stepping out and doing some stuff that you know isn't
done I I don't know how many flooring podcasts there are I know there's a few but we're we're darn consistent and uh
we've been what episode we on we are on 78 or something 77 I think 77 so 77 it's
a good number 77 weeks like7 in a row and uh not in a row almost in a row
close two in a row uh but we've missed very few um as a whole group I mean when
you consider that so um our percentage we're here to we're here to uh freely
give we hope we help and um you know let's band together almost like
brothers and sisters and uh you know continue to improve our industry overall
right and this is that that podcast right where it's like a lot of us do the same things but this is like get with if
you don't do hard tile get with a hard tile guy and you know take him to lunch or invite them over you know we we had
here yesterday and it's like it it's always great conversation because it's like we don't do the same
thing but we all need each other like if I if I'm if I'm quoting
something and I don't have someone to do that I'm already out of contention if the if the bid isn't broken up right
yeah so it's like get those and that's why we call them Partners it's I'm never going to bring anyone and say that yeah
this is my subcontractor this is what they're going to be doing because um it was one of the construction companies
that we do a lot of work for and they're like we're going to stop calling people Subs because that a sub is a lower tier
right we're not trying to say that you guys are less than us so they started calling us trade Partners so that's
where we get you know a lot of a lot of our stuff from is learning from the the larger company so so we're calling
everyone Partners come be our partner because without you I wouldn't be able to do it in some cases without me you
wouldn't be able to do it so let's partner up together and we still you know we still partner up with some of
the bigger companies around here and do labor only because um one it's because
our our relationship with them is Rock Solid but because we know that we have a certain skill set that not everyone has
so it's in the best interest for us to do it for that for that customer knowing
that your job is going to get done right and you know like just like everyone
else in business we're here to make some money so like those dollars have to to be right and
yeah we can all partner and become one together I mean this this is uniting
everyone uh we had epoxy guys in here and they've they've done a few jobs for
us and uh one of the the companies will call me just and he'll be like and those
epoxy guys are the best guys that I've ever used hands down I say I'm glad you
like them we love them too like they're gonna continue you know being our partner and they they'll come they came
in here you know and started asking us questions just like we're sitting across the table from each other right now just
sharing information because not everyone knows everything and if we can help them
the little bit that we do know that's what we want to do well yeah let's let's all lift each other up and and move on
and like there there's this is such a great industry and there's so many great people in it it's it's in our best
interest to start looking at at each other all Partners I think uh what helps
with that is getting around each other right um
often you know keyboard Warriors you know are very much on their own you know
what I'm saying like they're they're out in their own bubble get out come meet you know we go to just about all the
shows and uh come meet us but meet all the other people that we're talking
about I mean we we get a lot of Knowledge from like the old timers you know Sim and sunny and these guys that
are in the industry that you can just tap into and they what's great about oh
man that is what is great about some of the old-timers uh they don't install anymore but man will they give you the
knowledge you know if you just ask them they just want to they want to share it before you know before they're off into
the sunset you know what I mean and so get getting around one another and and
networking it's another thing I don't think we do very good as an install Community is network and last night was
proof that it can happen and that people can be happy doing it there was competitors in the room there was trade
Partners in the room there was different uh Talent levels there was different uh
disciplines everything and it was a great conversation uh and it was enjoyable so
like you know join in like get out in the commun in your uh you know join in with the install Community join this
podcast uh if you're watching us on YouTube or one of the social channels you know
comment give us a like subscribe what if you guys have like uh one week a month where you be like a expert installer
week and you have one of those old guys come out and just share the knowledge because you said that they want to so much like you know that they want have
the drive to teach the youth teach the upand cominging get them on the stage give them that chance to because there
usually isn't a chance to yeah the the uh that's a great idea and and where
were you yesterday when we were talking about the podcast T I'm just joking no that's that's
really um that's a good idea and we we'll probably do that this this uh
this4 you know bring it's almost we we start calling like 2024 season two right
yeah we we don't think about that because we are the old in some cases we are the oldtimers
but those guys uh it would be great to have some of those guys on we've had some of them on but
specifically uh driven that uh Q&A would be a cool one like getting on and
tapping into a a Sim or someone like that or you know sunny or any of the
even if you have to bring those young installers to ask those questions that they're always free to attend yeah
participate well just like like when you go to networking events that's what you kind of see is the
installers kind of keep to themselves and not want to be
really social like that and I think that's one of the downfalls of like when you look at CFI convention and stuff
because from the outside looking in yeah it looks like they're all friends I'm not trying
to go over there and talk to them but once you start talking to them they're open arms like it's like they some of
them friends some of them are friends like and and that's the big will to put yourself out there right it all started
from somewhere right where we didn't know them and now when we show up somewhere it's come in yeah like we're
hugging we're all friends now it's those conversations have to start somewhere and you just have to be comfortable
enough to to put yourself trust me it's not it's not as scary as you think and and people are more apt to um engage
with you if you just take a take a step say hi um see it whether it's CFI or you
know getting around some of the CTF TI installers that you want to talk about
somewhat intimidating those guys can be like scary to talk to because they're
over here mudding walls and all this stuff if you watch them at some of the competitions and uh doing stuff we don't
even do in campas like some of the stuff that they train there and and test on we
don't even do that kind of stuff in in Camp i' I've talked to um who's the guy
that puts on mud Mario right and you know he's approached me as some tra CH he's like hey you going to come out here
and I was like I don't even do to he said still more than welcome yeah always a chance to learn something new yeah all
right well we're ending uh the time here or getting close to the end of time I
thought uh an interesting you know anytime we do these
podcasts and it by the way it's awesome to be here with you guys and and michig
it's been real rewarding s snowed yeah snowed especially for
um but the the the camaraderie that you
guys have with a lot of the trade Partners is admirable and and people do respect what you guys have done in the
industry what you're doing in the industry so I encourage everybody to kind of have that helping hand with one
another um you know it's it's Unique we a lot of times we are so combative uh
but truth is embrace one another I've I've done a lot of traveling and talking
to other flooring companies and I've learned that if um you know those those
Partnerships with your your installation Community it that is the real key to me
on a really good flooring company and and and uh kind of the differentiating
factor it's it's apparent the the people that are doing really uh good things
whether it's in training or they they their company's growing or they're doing
they're making um uh new strides in the industry it's always the ones who are
are at the shows that I've been to they're they're part of the community so I encourage you if you're just getting
started into flooring particularly you started a new flooring company or you're a new installer get around like-minded
people that that is I mean business people tell you this all the time like
you're the sum of the five people that you hang out with the most so I I would encourage you to get around other
successful people in our industry chat with them uh get the you know the goods
and bads a lot of us will tell you the mistakes we've made we've been pretty transparent on this podcast over the
year over a year now uh doing it that you know we're we weren't perfect we're
still not perfect and we make mistakes and we're somewhat transparent about that so you know hopefully we can all
grow together and uh you know again one more thing today's the last day for the
Sim that was yesterday that was y today's Tuesday sorry yesterday Sim closed so I think we had
17 or 17 or 18 um entries and so uh
we'll be announcing that here next month and uh so best of luck to everybody who
uh who uh you know uh entered into that drawing or into that scholarship and uh
yeah it's a really great training so again if you're watching us on any of the socials if you'll give us a you know
we love the comments we want to hear from you guys consider giving us a like And subscribe as well and it's been a
pleasure gentlemen yeah and if you are on the fence um of going to a trade show ties is right around the corner if you
are introverted or think that you're going to go and just feel out of place us up reach out to us we can introduce
you to whoever we know we can introduce you to the other introverts you guys can introvert in
groups but yeah I mean you're more than welcome to come hang out we're we'll probably be focused on the installation
competition again this year since baby sister is gonna be in it oh yeah but we'll be around I'm gonna we got a new
camera to play with you guys can't call her baby sister she's our baby sisters
everyone calls her baby sister all right guys as well uh we'll shut this down for the day thanks everybody out in the
audience for joining us and um we will see you guys next week thank you
everyone all right [Music]
guys
The Huddle - Episode 76 - Planning for Successful Installations
This week the guys are going to talk about how companies and installers can plan for successful installations, from the accepted bid through to completion.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up Flooring family welcome to the Huddle coming at you every Tuesday 3M
Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career with me as usual Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez
from preferred flooring in Grand Rapids Michigan what's up fellas how's it going going
on just um you know kind of winding down the year and looks pretty quiet behind
you today it's it's pretty quiet we've had uh I don't know about up there but
we've had a lot of uh people sick at the flooring
company and some here too so we're we're chugging along though Ashlin is uh
absent today with um her little girl my granddaughter getting
her um some teeth work done so yeah
excited to announce we're going to be in person next week up in up in Michigan with with the preferred flooring guys so
we're going to be running the podcast from up there so if you're if you're um watching this right now we're going to
be doing um some Q&A just actually more like a round table open
discussion uh surrounding go Carrera with installer input
experiences likes dislikes things you'd like to see um all the input what like anything
that they can think of hey it I was I had this idea that this app would do
this like any input is good input yeah every bit of input is
welcomed I mean I really hope we have a lot of people show up live but um if
you're not able to make it live um or we're going to be sending a zoom link
out to anybody who wants to join that discussion so email us over at support
atgo cara.com put in the in the subject line GC
Meetup and we will um send you a link so
you can join via Zoom so this week is uh kind of a fun topic
it's I I think it's from a store and installer relation standpoint probably
one of the more important topics actually is you know setting up projects for success for installer success and
what does that mean for everybody and kind of discuss different different ways
uh we've went about it in the past uh how we look at it today and you know I I
have the pleasure of getting to know a lot of different flooring companies in different parts to the nation and and
share some of of what I've heard in discussions with them um on how they how
how to properly set up an installer for Success on a job uh which
is the kind of the Crux of the topic so I'm going to kick it off to you guys
how' you used to do it let's start to the fun stuff um or how' it used to be done for
you well I we we had um a couple guys in here what maybe a month ago um
interviewing us for a new uh I think not they're a nonprofit right yeah this non
it's called construction allies in action or something like that and they're trying to get a group of contractors together that are trusted so
that way when these you know these bids come out they're like if they want that Elite group or
whatever this is who they go to and he asked uh he said how
how do you guys feel about how you became you know this to this point and I and I said really it was by accident
because we didn't have anything set up it was it like everything that's happened so far has been by
accident and and take that with with a grain of salt right like it's taking an opportunity of of
it's you guys taking action on opportunities in front of you is what it is correct and and when we say on action
and is because uh um and when I was part of uh Kyle's Mastermind um the accident
thing was only because we didn't document every step of the way in our process right so the accident thing
comes because uh if we were to hand this over tomorrow it it cannot be duplicated
um and that's where the accident comes from Happy accident don't get me wrong right strategic accident and like you
said capitalizing on on opportunities but um couldn't be duplicated if we were to end
right right now tomorrow if that was the case um we are trying to fix all of that
there's a lot there's a lot involved but there is a lot to it I I started documenting way too late myself here at
go carrer we have playbooks for everything so that when somebody's not able to be here that somebody else can
step in Follow The Playbook and and still execute so you know a lot of this
um documenting or putting together training systems and programs with
playbooks I think a lot of us who started the way we did which is just some installers who got either fed up or
had this grandiose idea of what it was like to be a business owner and decided to go out and start their own stuff uh
you know and and probably got kicked in the teeth uh I would assume like I did multiple multiple times but but you
know logging those those things we use a platform for the companies out there we
use a platform called Talent LMS and that's what every one of it's it's a
really good piece of software it's affordable it's one of the better training softwares out there and you can
document every single step of we're going through now trying to get more
granular with it um so that every step of of everything that we do is logged in
there so anybody can get in there and learn so when you new hire or if somebody needs a refresher and you can
see which courses are taken and all that so that's kind of from the company side but setting up installers for say for
project success did you guys ever put you know
how do you do that when you first started or how did you do that when you first started and what lessons have you
learned how have you gotten better so I would say when we first started it was uh Daniel or I was on the project and I
started with a notebook right like I would uh I would take notes um from the
start of the project and this is labor only right this is just me as an installer um I would I would take extra notes uh write things down while I was
uh on the phone with everyone and I would pretty much have a game plan there
right put it together hey we're going to go here this is what we have this is our start date this is our deadline you know and you know I would
say 70% of the time I went in blind on some of the projects because I didn't have time to visit projects um and we
just have to deal with it as we got there that was pretty much the best and well how did
companies deal with you because if you're doing labor only you were working for other companies so how did they set
you up for Success without you know maybe blasting anybody but like was
there's certainly some stories there on um good things that were done and and
things that could have been improved upon and and maybe some lessons you've learned I've I've I've got some stories
there too I think I learned that working for an ex
installer was way more efficient than doing projects for a salesperson who had no installation background um the
installers would set you up for the best chance of success that they possibly could with the information that they had
and the salesperson would just set you up with a sometimes not even a work order just like a handwritten note and
that was it so so go deeper what what did the what's the what did what was the good part how did they set you up for
success I knew what product I was working with right ahead of time um I
knew location of the project obviously um knew what companies we were working
with whether it was uh uh PPE required um uh
the that's pretty much it those were those were the the basics of of what we had um as far as site conditions um that
had to evolve as the relationship got got better right because I would start asking more questions uh what are we
tearing up I guess that I would have that information too if we had demo um you know or if there was extensive prep
I would have that information as well and when it was uh an ex installer like
Bob Bob would you know come in and be like hey we're this we're ripping out carpet it's this brand it's gonna be
stuck stuck make sure you got your machine with you yeah when if it's just a salesperson they'd be like you're
ripping up carpet like what's the difference carpet's carpet carpet Tower broad Moon I don't know it's carpet why
yeah why does it make a difference well because of what we're installing next like we there different steps that we
have to take um but that was all the notebook and getting better at asking the right questions and then as I got
better or annoying at asking those questions they actually got better at taking notes and delivering information
all at once at the beginning so um we helped each other get better
um but yeah when I first started um some of the stuff that was tough to
get through was because uh materials where they're at who's picking
them up like all that kind of thing um some some people I'd work for I'd
be not knowing so and you know I can't can't act as though we're not guilty of
this sometimes even still but every single job I would go to three or four
different supply houses picking stuff up because you know here in witto anyway
not all your product you know not one distributor handled all the product and
so I'd go to the store and pick up the actual flooring then I'd run over to you
know what's now EJ Welch and pick up the the tax strip if I was doing residential
or the patch that I needed and then over here to and it was like running around
and as that got better when I worked for better companies having all my stuff at the store if I'm going to deliver it
having all my stuff at the store I go pick up a pallet maybe two pallets and I'm off to the job site so having the
product staged if I'm picking up was a a big plus uh huge bonus is if it's
delivered to the job site and acclimated properly and all of that stuff and that
that wasn't as big of a concern back in the day for some reason now I I really
I'm not sure that I understand why that was it was just it's there's so much more emphasis on it since I've been in
business since you know n03 9903 um and I say that because I
actually started in 99 and bought my partner out in 03 but um back when I was subbing like that
late 90s time I'd pick up VCT from someone's warehouse and go install it that same
day you know didn't matter what the site conditions from a humidity standpoint
point of course we've we've we've talked about all the adhesive changes um so
that's certainly part of it but I think that you know the materials probably are just not as high quality when you're
talking about like VCT and stuff as it used to be but um you know huge bonuses
getting it on the job site with a written work order um back then Dynamic
work orders today are available and those are even better where you can share information back and forth and
site conditions back and forth and and have that information be live but back
then that wasn't available and you know just getting a work order with materials
on a pallet ready for me to pick up was a huge win from what I had experienced of running around to a bunch of
Distributors trying to pick up materials and takes me two hours before I get to the job site and nobody wants to pay for
that right and you know what the logistic portion of it too like that is
something that has always been a pain in the butt right it I think it always will be if there's
no communication about it because now you're getting ready to start the project and it's a large project and you're right if you have thousands upon
thousands of square feet then you would like like why didn't the semi just get routed that way and delivered right to
site like because then then they got to pay the drop fee on take them dropping
everything off on site yeah um or or the GC is not going to let you have a truckload of material on it so you got
to take it to your place but the uh picking it up
like after a couple times when I say a couple times like after a couple years of dealing with it hit and miss it it
was more or less this is what needs to happen guys if we're working with uh X material
either you guys need to get it to site or we'll do our best to get it to site before we start the project so that way when we do start it's acclimated um that
there used to be an expectation that that's what we were going to do but then um as years passed I'm like hey you know
what if you're not building in delivery into some of your margins that's not my fault like my job is to as an installer
is to get to site and try to get it installed right um yes or no yes or no guys um it's my job to make sure that
the proper steps are being taken with the final product in order for us to be
successful as well as the store um I I think I went through a different a couple different mindsets of that just
to kind of meet in the middle and figure it out yeah lot today you know and we've
gotten better at site deliveries um we try to have all the materials on site
acclimated prior to or we have an acclimation Zone at our
warehouse um where you know if it's just impossible to get the materials out
there the day before maybe it's an occupied space we'll acclimate it as
close as we can in humidity and temperature and then just a car ride over or a truck ride over to the job
site and try to you know always trying to make sure we're acclimating materials and putting the product on the job site
um you know I think another step to this in today's world is you know we all do onscreen takeoffs so making sure that
the install has accurate installation information um they don't have to you
know dig through all the drawings uh we're still get trying to get better and
better at that where if you have a huge project and you got all these drawings don't just give all the drawings whether
it's a digital format or you print them out and give them to you know give them
the whole set of architectural drawings uh we try to give them our take off and
make sure that takeoff is accurate one of the key points there is you know
making sure that if you draw lines on your takeoff that you're you're and
they're just indicator lines make sure the installer knows that doesn't mean that that's the direction that the tile
goes you know there's things like that you got to be really careful of these days with on-screen programs and uh
we've learned our lesson on some of that stuff I mean I won't tell you we're perfect we made mistakes where you know
stuff looks like it's supposed to be set on a diagonal or you know because those are just indicator
lines right and uh we set it on a diagonal and they're
like this supposed to be straightly random set lvt and that's what I started doing like in the description on the
actual product like if it calls it out in the in the print on the Finish schedule I'm putting this is you know
the manufacturer the name of the material the color and how it's supposed to be installed right on that line item yeah
the direction and everything yeah try to do our best to save time so that way people like we were stuck on the phone a
lot trying to all right glue's ready we're ready to install what direction is it you look at the paperwork nothing
right it's like oh you know what I never asked so the salesperson's got a call try to get
a hold of the GC and then the owner or the architect or designer Yeah the more we can the better
we can be as a company in relaying the
accurate information on the products the direction giving them installation
instructions making sure they know ahead of time what trial they need before they
um you know install before they go to install that day so they make sure they have the right trial notches especially
if it's a special you know 16th Square notch or something
nutty um you know having that information there ahead of time so they can already procure the the tools that
they need um those are all things where the more you can have an installing crew
doing the what they're really good at which is installing and not picking up materials and and moving stuff around
and if they do pick up materials and we still have to have that happen pretty you know frequently um you know on large
on our large projects we typically get them to the site but if you got a one- day tenant finish they're probably going
to pick it up at our warehouse uh a lot of those just don't have any space to put the the product on and let it stage
you know stick in a h a Common's hallway or something you know you can't do that so but having it ready and where
somebody can will it out put it on a on their truck and go um that that helps
the installer do what they are best at um even moving materials around on job
sites you know we do our very best to you know have a centralized location to
where they're not hauling it miles away um if it's out in the conx or something
like that we want to be able to get them in get into the building as best as possible or as close of the building but
there's still those times where it's in a conx it has to be in a conx there's no
no room on the job site and so the installer does have to kind of plan on hey I got to grab 60 boxes of wall tile
yeah out of the conx this morning right out of the gate um so it's a teamwork I
mean you know I don't want to exclude the responsibility from the installer
that you know it there's they have a a part in the team but uh the more we can
do to just have install the better that's that's my belief and and
you're right about you're right about the teamwork and that's uh what I was saying earlier about the going back and
forth like I didn't want to deal with it and it was okay never mind I will deal with the the the logistic portion or
like you said rotating material out of aonics uh for one depending on what it is so it can acreate making sure that
it's an eonxs we it's not going to get too hot and then relaying that information to everyone the team the GC
the salesperson uh your Crews that are with you like that's a lot of information right and as soon as you
don't relay information for one or two days uh everyone's gonna be in the dark on that third day and yeah you gotta
make sure that you you stay on top of it yeah there's some uh I won't name any
names but I visited with some companies who go as far as like the installer
doesn't even move materials from the conx like they will make
sure they are good if they pull this off they're really really good um and I I'd
love to get this good if I'm honest uh but if they got materials in a conx
those materials are staged that the evening before by someone at their
office I assume their warehouse people go and stage at material for the installer so the installer is literally
prepping sanding laying I mean like that is uh now if you're doing lvt
or something it's got to be got into the building so whether that's the installer or the company doing that the day before
you need to acclimate the materials but it's uh you know we try to do that in in
a week by- week basis as as opposed to a day-by-day basis um but man if you can
pull that off and just have your everything right there ready for the installer kudos to you that's that's
really tough and we have more than one warehouse guy you know we got two Warehouse guys and a manager and we we
still can't pull that off um so we're looking at systems and ways of of
getting better still um I think that from a retail standpoint I wanted to
know I know a lot of the guys pick up materials retail Wise from a from the
retailer on the way out to the job site or you know the morning of the job so
what are some have you guys dealt with that I mean when you're doing when you used to do work for retailers or how
does how does that work if you guys are doing a house yeah so the residential is a
little bit different right like a lot of people don't have the space needed to
Stage uh the material there and sometimes when we do stage material there if we're installing like an lvp or
something like that we do try to get it there a few days ahead of schedule or or if we're starting on a Monday drop it
off on a Friday um the problem is is that we aren't always able to put it in
the space where the work is going to be performed so we'll be staging in their garage um or in their basement but we're
doing the main level you know what is and that's the hard part um the majority of the carpet jobs we
are not dropping off ruls of carpet uh and and and then staging them there
we're that's going to be a just like the retail shops they come pick it up here and
then take it to the project yeah sometimes it's a matter of them going
and uh doing the demo and ripping everything out bringing the trash here
grabbing the carpet on the way back so that way it's only in you know the
elements you know in their vehicle for the drive here to the house and I think
all the houses that all the residential that we've done has been I don't know probably within 20 minutes half hour or
so yeah some some couple places a little bit over 45 minutes or around that Mark but yeah
um of course you're stretching that you don't have quite as much concern with
shrinkage and things like that if you although it's a heck of a hard stretch
I've I've been there on cold carpet but yeah you guys keep your we house heated
or yes yeah yeah 100% And and we don't keep it like you would keep your home
right we keep it you know between 55 and 62 so that way it's not too cold not too
warm no but when there is those projects like you guys have that spacing that you said like if it's you know a project
like that it's we got to have it 70 in the warehouse for a couple days yeah and and we've done that we staged the
material for a Monday on a Friday in the center of the warehouse and cranked up to heat over the whole weekend just so
that way we could keep it as close to the temperature of someone with their home or or the the facility over the
weekend try to yeah it's it's pretty tough and the manufacturers don't
understand that I don't think I I they're pretty strict on these acclamation you know time frames and you
know particularly residential but even on like I said some of the small you
know tenant you know few thousand foot of lvt and a tenant space kind of work
we're putting it we're pulling it into the office on a pallet we keep skinny
pet Jack or pallets and pet Jack for that reason get it into the office we
have this open space where we'll we've had five six pallets in there before
acclimating to get to a job site so because they they had no room so
you just kind of got to do what you got to do but right and it's communicating too like there's you know things happen if it
gets to a point where this wasn't acclimated hey you get this to the job site you open these boxes and start
spreading them M piles everywhere yep start shuffling yeah what are some other stuff that uh
you think is key for we've talked about you know getting materials to the site as best as we can if not to the site at
least having them ready or staged in one warehouse location would be you
know at least um better than running around to a bunch of Distributors with
different conditions at every distributor um and then we've talked about proper documentation so they know
what they're installing where which direction all that kind of stuff what
other things can you I think you kind of touched on a communication being available for him for questions that
kind of stuff and um having the contact that's going to be on site like like
that was really one one thing I hated when I would I would show up somewhere
and then it's like well no one's here and then you got to call the person hey who who am I supposed to call oh I don't
even I don't even know let me try and get a hold of this person it's like that's one thing that we try to put on
every work order now is the contact that's going to be on site that you have to call call them when you're on your
way call them when you get there ask them where you need to park you know things like that that way M it's not a
matter of hey I'm here where you at oh they didn't tell me you were going to be here it's hey we'll be there in a half
hour and accordingly right and then to touch on that too it's communicating
with the projects before the day you're supposed to start um it's close enough make a site visit uh talk to the GC talk
to the site contact make sure that they understand where you're starting right
because that should be pre-planned you're not just going to go there on a on a large project large very large
project and just wing it right you're gonna want like this is where I'm starting usually on a schedule for you anyway but um you know this is where I'm
starting this is the size of crew I have are you ready for that oh yes we are okay cool or no we're
not uh what do you have ready uh we have this much all right well what I'm gonna do is I'll call you back a little bit
I'm gonna downsize my crew find somewhere else for them to go we'll get you these people or this crew and uh
we'll get started on that area right here but I need to know when the rest is expected to be ready so that way I know
when to ramp back up so yeah that proper planning with your contractor your
client that's a key key Point as well maybe the most important point because
it doesn't matter how good you are delivering materials and having a crew scheduled if they get there and
nothing's ready for them because there was no planning done ahead of time and even when you do plan there's a
guarantee you guys have witnessed it like myself or at least I hope I'm not the only one that has been promised an
area uh told it's cleaned out even been sent pictures proving it's cleaned out
and you get there that next morning and not ready or there's 10 trades in
your way so yeah with with us I think that's that's the biggest thing is yeah
they'll clean it out and everything for you but then you show up and everyone else wants to work in the same area oh they just clean this clean clean
like there's nothing in my way either got all this room for activities let's let's start a
party yeah I think that it's uh production rates are another part um
we've had times where both ways where we've said we got a our crew will
be there tomorrow morning and they have way too much area expected to be done
and then we've had it to where they give them a a th000 foot Hall way and we got four guys there and we're like we could
do six of these today if you just if you get out of the way um so you
know kind of understanding the creu size like you were talking about Jose that's needed for the job that's all part of
the proper planning you remember the six PS I have a written in my book proper
planning prevents piss poor production you know that's that's that
all boils down to communication obviously and how important it is to communicate with your GC about your your
the crew you're sending capability so you can get the proper amount of space opened up for it um that's not a fail
you know fa safe I mean it's still we I can't you know I love my gc's but I
cannot count how many times we've been to a job and had enough work for a few hours and then they want to move
something and let you get this next little piece and then move something else and it's like I get it we're
disruptive but we've been doing flooring for centuries we we know we need the
whole Space so you're not new to this Mr GC please get out of our way and allow
us to do our job we did nobody figures on going in and turning a wide open room into a nine phased project right and and
I tell people all the time I need the floor to do the Flor right like if you're only give me that little bit like
now I have to do that little bit it's going to take me five hours do that little piece when I could have done this
in five hours you ever get the comeback that your contract says you got to work
with other trades it's clear in there you're gonna have to work with other trades and communicate with them and
back and forth you ever get those yep and we've also got like they say that and then they're like why don't you guys
just come in and work at night and it's like why doesn't everyone else just come in and work at night yeah that solves
that problem too why why is it always flooring guy
bottom of the barrel man just you know well the truth is I that that can be the stigma but truth is we we're we take up
the most square footage of space when we are working you know what I mean we stop
traffic is really what it is we stop traffic um and and I get it and is is
production at night could 100% be better and a lot some some installers prefer to
work at night however the the downside of that is the
wear and tear on your body on your sleep schedule on your mental when you when you transition from day to night day to
night day to night um your Crews get sick more right they're less likely to
be motivated the following night the following week production goes down you know between 15 and 20 20% on on
projects that you're fitting in well you can't just run down the store at 2 am and grab an extra bag of PCH right you
can't like your trial Notch is wore out the concrete was a little bit rougher
than normal concrete still good enough for a 5 millimeter lvt for example and
it wore through your trial and it's 2 amm like even Home Depot ain't open then
man you know so there's a lot of limiting factors that and plus you got
to remember risk I mean people getting hurt or injured on the job site at night
the risk is higher but also the to um help them at 2 am versus
two o'clock in the afternoon if if they cut themselves pretty severely or something is it's just everything's more
difficult so I know at two o'clock in the morning when somebody gets hurt I'm gonna want to take them because I don't
want to be at work at two o'clock in the morning yeah I'm your ride I'm your ride dude I'm your ride he's lying I got hurt
at that time before and I had to drive myself that's aome that's a true story huh well my
brother's like dude look how much stuff we have to do and you're doing dumb stuff like that why just duct tape go
and let me know I did I taped it up and then I went to went to the Urgent Care
and then they took it off said oh yeah we can't do nothing with that and then taped it up worse than I had it taped up
so I should just my tape on there man that was a that was a weird project we're actually working with someone who
made national headlines in a very bad way but um that was uh yeah he just
gouged his whole arm there was nothing if they stitched it it would have ripped the first time he bent his arm I was
like dude how did you do that so what' they do I'm sorry I'm going off topic what I'm curious what what had to be
done to fix your arm because it's clearly better they just pack it full of
put balls on it and then wrap it up oh wow yeah I remember I wrote a one of the
articles about safety I wrote about a time a guy had a 4-inch
scraper blade in the back of his pocket and he he just had this really bad habit of sticking it blade up in his back
pocket brand new blade reached back thought the Yin was the Yang and slit
himself across his wrist and he bled like a stuffed hog man
everywhere this was a day job so we got him in the hospital just fine but he was
um so Safety First folks yeah 100% um but it does compliment to the point it
does complicate stuff in the evening especially really late so working at nights can be difficult but getting back
on the topic of you know setting yourself setting your installer your
installation your project up for success is about if you do know that if you know
it ahead of time long enough so the sleep schedule can change and you can put some other um you know our our rule
is you got to have somebody available so if you're working a weekend or a night
someone in our company in our office needs to be alert on alert installation
manager or project manager knowing that you're doing that and uh you know don't have your phone on
silent because yeah you may be needed and and that that is one thing too like if we have a night project going on and
like when he was in the field and I was in the office I couldn't sleep at night because I always felt like if I got
comfortable went to sleep something was going to happen they were gonna need something um and I I have made myself
available to grab some come to the warehouse grab it get it out to the job site um and make sure that the guys can
keep plugging along that's uh it has happened and it will it will happen again I know it yeah I mean it's part of
part of the business a bit but if you do know it again it goes back to communication and planning and that's
kind of our mantra for this year at the flooring company is like proper planning know the job in and
out as a project manager understand all the details or at
least you've built out the project file in a way that you can easily go back and
refresh yourself on the details and you know know what know what your guys are
doing when they're on site and try to set them up for the best to keep them
installing in a safe manner as best as we can possibly do it's um makes for
happier team overall I mean the installers happier when they're producing and we're happier when they're
producing and we're also happier um you know when things are going well and so I
call it time investment because you're going to spend that time anyway at the end of the job or if you're having to
run stuff out or take phone calls or or go go out to the job site to figure
something out because you didn't properly plan on the front side if you inv you can save so much time if you
just invest it it's just like investing your money uh that that concept to me is
always kind of stuck and it's you know you can spend your money and it's gone
forever or you can invest your money and let it build on itself it's same thing with your time if you invested on the
front side properly planning for your projects you're going to have better success jobs going to go smoother and
you're going to save time in the long run um none of us are perfect at it you know I know some of our guys watch the
podcast so I'm transparent that we're not perfect but we try really hard to to
set the guys up for success that's one of the reasons for the podcast too is so we can learn as well yeah
amen I haven't even checked okay so I want to REM
um remind everybody that Monday is the last day for the Sim scholarship that is
the last day to apply if you're watching this I probably should have put that at
the beginning for the guys who watch like three minutes of our of our uh videos on YouTube uh
but last day is Monday I believe the 15th or 18th is it 15th that we we
actually name the uh who want it so for the Sim scholarship make sure that you
if you want to apply please apply between now and the end of the day Monday I again will say how good that
training is we're trying to set up a three days to sim up in our Ken City
location uh you know here in the next few months been working with fcaa to put
all the parts and pieces together on that so we clearly believe in it and I
hope that you guys will take advantage of the it's almost a $1,600 value and it's a fantastic course so right and a
lot of what we're talking about on this podcast today is actually presented in
that program it's just on module yeah yeah it is and um another
announcement is just to remind everybody as I started the podcast uh I will be up
in Michigan with at Preferred flooring's Office on Monday and Tuesday of next week we're going to be shooting the
podcast from there live so uh join us and then Monday we're going to be doing
a you know installer round table so to speak uh we call it sever different
things but it's come speak your mind the idea here is we're building a piece of technology for the industry that's
getting widely adopted by manufacturers by large flooring contractors um all the way through to
the training entities and we want to hear from you we're not just trying to
build something I I I have teamed up with with guys like uh Daniel and Jose
on the intricacies that are needed in this uh application uh early on I I used
my knowledge of being everything from an employee installer to a subcontractor and then uh you know starting my own
flooring company and and that whole uh swath of experience kind of got it going
and then I've talked to gosh hundreds of companies probably by now and so we're
trying to make it work for both sides and and when I say both sides this is
not um against each other just the companies and the installers to make
sure that it's as fruitful and uh useful and and gives you the most value
possible and it starts with the installer we know that the network is
has to be healthy you guys have to uh really want to use go Carrera and the
reasons behind that and we want to hear the reasons why you like it and we want
to really hear the reasons why you don't like it or why you uh don't use it
currently or any of the stuff maybe maybe you haven't signed up yet and we we've met four or five times at a
conference why and what do you see is it is the value not there those kinds of
things so we're going to be talking about all that um come voice your opinion uh we we also uh like to share
what the installation Community is saying to the powers to be meaning the
manufacturers you know that set Mo a lot of the rules the training entities when our our Network talks people can listen
we're pretty strong it's a large Network and the more of us there are the more our voices are going to be
heard right and none of us have any issues going up to these people and it
and explaining to them you know the feedback that we're getting because we have that same feedback to them too
right it's like if I don't like something I go to a manufact factur and I'm like I don't use you because this is
why I'm not I'm we're not the ones that are like well this is a crap product I'm never going to use this again and just
not say anything it's when we go to these conventions we go up to you know
some of these manufacturers and they're like hey have you tried this product yeah and we don't like it and this is
why yeah and this is why and we've done videos we we um it's the same thing with with with
the the go career platform right like it's G to evolve it's going to Contin to evolv same way products are out there to
become installer friendly that's why they become so installer friendly that they label them uh DIY is because of the
evolution of it and and that's I think that's what we're trying to do here is we're we're trying to advocate for the
industry more importantly advocate for the installer and put the installer on a platform that was never there for them
and and and that's what's awesome about what you guys have created so kudos to youa like that's yeah amazing I mean a
lot of the conversations that we've been having with you know the higher ups so to speak or um like some of the
installer groups that that have been getting together it's all these questions become are are getting asked
and it's like how do we fix this how do we fix that and it's like you know me and him have been talking to you for so
long and have been using the program and it's like if everyone just starts getting together and signing
up it's like this could actually fix a lot of the problems that are in the industry yeah create a community is what
it is right that's what we're doing is I was going to say that we're we're creating a community where our voices
matter and we can go and make positive change for the installing Community the
thing is how often you know we we have a couple of magazines uh you know that are out there
that are really focused on the installer but if you look at the overall Publications across the network if
they're not talking about the labor shortage and and that kind of thing how often is the concerns and the the things
that we want to see changed as the installation Community brought up in these Publications well that's what we
want to bring to the Forefront to the the people that can probably make the change or at least they're going to hear
from us and if they don't make the change the more the more growth that the
network and the community has the bigger our voices together so I encourage you
to join us it's going to be a blast we're going to have some food and drinks and and sit around it's going to be uh
kind of like a fireside chat I guess would be the best way to describe it um they at Preferred flooring's Office so
and and you you can stop by and get autographs because my brother's been putting another magazine yeah
y my man that one's a local one this time this is this is our our local chamber magazine oh that's cool congrats
bro that's we we're we're often humbled when we we get in those things but it's
still it's really cool so uh if again if
you cannot join in person and I know that not everybody's right there around Michigan to come up and join us this
could work Across the Nation if you're watching this send us a email support
goar.com and just in the subject line put GC Meetup
for go career Meetup and we'll get you a link and you can join uh via Zoom I'd
love to see the zoom just packed and the room packed and us have a really
meaningful discussion yeah I would love to see that as well we have a lot of local flooring
guys that that we know personally some that we know their names uh but it would be nice to um put a face behind the name
it'd be nice to to see meet face to face U and with a handshake or or even uh see
each other again right that that'd be nice awesome yeah and I'd love to meet
everybody up there so hope to see you and uh with that any closing remarks on
you know setting up the the projects always you're always gonna have to
explain yourself to installers more than once it becomes redundant but you got to do it and then
they'll still call you asking you the same questions again so you just had to kind of get used to explaining it
putting it on paper putting it in messages and then explaining it again because I don't know they a lot of
people don't do stuff like this so I was guilty of it dude I mean I was guilty
when I installed as a sub I'd be you get problem with paperwork orders is they
get lost and I'd lose those dog on things or if I
took notes and lost that paperwork it's it's like you know redundancies are good
having you know as text messaging I'm get I'm dating myself here but when text
messaging started coming around and and all that stuff we we were sending work
orders with pictures and stuff on text messages and reiterating in the text
message and you know whatever it took and the biggest thing is growing with that text technology right because once
it came out that was the best way and then you know more emails like people
started emailing everything and then it came to a point where it's like did you email me did you text
me like like I'm searching everywhere and I can't find it now it's to a point where
you're like okay I know he email text me or message me on some platform let me
find it so yeah make sure that you keep your communication sensory load at and I
will add to what Daniel was saying too and goes back to beginning of the conversation um start creating your your
template right like uh from an installer perspective all the way to a salesperson
make sure if they don't even have it for you make sure you're starting to create your uh your every project to-do list
right so that way you're doing the same things in systematic order so that way for one it becomes second nature for two
now you're documenting and recording your your processes and procedures um
even if you are just installing then you if something gets missed you'll know
right away at a glance instead of like oh forgot to call I forgot to check
forgot about that you'll know amen awesome yeah and and you know um if
we have some time on Monday I'll do a the installer side kind of demo of go
career and show you how that communication could be be kept on a chat accompanied with the work order for the
attorney of the job a lot of guys appreciate that when they have problems on job sites or they have you know
additional prep and they throw it in the chat and and um if you work by the by
the hour we just released the work orders to be able to work for employee installers and I'll show you guys that
when I'm there on Monday uh I fly I'll be up in in uh your neck of the woods
late Sunday and I'll see you you guys Monday morning all right sounds good we'll see you all right we're out have a
good one thanks every you [Music]
guys
The Huddle - Episode 75 - Handling Client Expectations
This week the guys talk about expectations from the clients perspective, and how an installer can handle and meet them.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle com at you every Tuesday at 3 pm
Central we discuss various topics on maintaining Ford progress in your
flooring career with me as always and
sometimes I'm the one missing is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred
flooring up in Grand Rapids Michigan uh Premier
flooring flooring uh contractor and uh
installer residential commercial mainly commercial though up in Grand Rapid so
look them up all right what's going on fellas how's it going brother we're just here
wonderful yeah sh sharing the socials right now so that that's why we're looking down at
our phones yeah well we got we got to get the crowd on here and uh get some
interaction um well how was last week's huddle good I watched a little bit of it
looked like it went pretty well just everyone everyone was like man everything is so much better when Paul's not
there I heard viewership was up and everything I should Miss more often it was it Daniel pointed it out
right away so there was one of my buddies is
an electrician and then we had a meeting the next day um at one of the construction companies and he came up to
me he was like it's my first time able to actually watch a full podcast he was like it was crazy because everything
that you talk about is what's going on in the electrical industry right now and it we just it's like it's not just
flooring related it's the entire construction industry I think so a lot of the the stuff that we talk about
other trades can relate to as well yeah absolutely for sure with the special other specialty contractors you know I
mean we we run in in the same circles have the same issues I would assume a
lot of the same labor problems even I think Co bus in general probably
right just you know just a different uh different hat different title yeah we
should we should do a podcast this podcast this next year called around the
world of Trades and have all the just a a rep from every trade on and let's just
talk uh how everything is the same yeah our gc's may not like uh hearing that
every trade has the same complaints but well it's the I it was actually um one of the so as the vice president of the
co of the construction company uh came up to us he he overheard us talking and
he said the same thing like he feels it because you I mean last week was a new generation right talking about the
younger people coming in and he said we feel that too it's like people coming in
starting they just they want to make that same dollar amount as you're making right now right off the bat with you
know zero um experience and it's yeah I think I'm
sure from that perspective that was a great topic that perspective has got to be shared with
with most people in in uh Construction in general yeah and it can go a lot of
different ways under that topic too but it's just you can we could talk for days about that we can talk days about almost
anything sure we almost do sometimes well uh so this week is
managing uh customer expectations um I think this is a a
really um important topic if you're if you are doing flooring in specific um
but probably like we talked earlier here all the trade but the one thing that
with flooring is we're so disruptive you can kind of rewire a house or do some
Plumbing work or you know even painting without completely displacing your
client you know so we're pretty disruptive in that manner um so managing
those expectations uh what are some key like points under that like what are some key
I'll give you one example example um of a key um topic underneath that topic is
like time you know managing the expectation of time they a lot of times uh
specifically in in commercial they just think it's going to go down it sometimes they think they
it's going to take you a week when you can do it in two days and sometimes they think it's going to take you two days
and it should take two weeks yes and managing that that what are some of the
uh loow hanging fruit for people to to you know start doing that with their
customers because if you don't do that you're going into the Lion's Den on every
job I would um I would start by saying uh
for under or under promise and overd deliver right if you lead with that
um then it's just going to help you out in the end um if you are under promising but then
way overd delivering that could also hurt as well right you don't want to say I need this for five days push the other
trades out of the way for five days and you're done in one and a half he's like what like like if you know it's gonna
take you three days give yourself four if you know it's gonna take you you know five working days then give yourself
till the next you know if you start on a Monday give yourself to the next week Monday or Tuesday to wrap up right like
then you I think clearly communicating that too
in writing uh in some manner even if you're dealing with a homeowner um either on your proposal or
in text messages following up the proposal emails whatever the means of communication is is identifying that but
then also you know communicating that and writing it's saved our um our rear
ends a time or two by communicating it and writing so
it's not like no you said it was going to take a week no I said three weeks no
you didn't okay now it's just my word versus yours so either having it on a
nice Gant chart to show the the timing uh you know on a scheduling chart but at
the very least communicating that is very very important that's like the first piece and then when you're doing
that listen to what Jose said and you know under promise overd deliver um and
you're right uh just to speak to to your point about sometimes if you do that too well
or it goes too well then you you end up like biting your butt you know getting
bit in the butt over it because then they either expect it that next time they have you on a job or a project uh
and do not consider the different sight conditions they say well you got 4,000 ft of LBT you laid it in a day and this
is 4,000 L yeah this one this one's only 2,000 yeah ought to be able to do it in
a half a day well there are certain processes that take time skim coding
prep those kinds of things that you gain efficiency of scale at larger stuff and
then of course not every layout's the same not all the products are the same not all the adhesives are the same on
dry time is it a full you know 100% pressure sensitive is it
does it go in partially wet is it a wet set there's all kinds of factors into
that that can change the total Dynamic of the job so and and also I'm a big fan
and also dealing with expectations set by previous installers um you know you're going to do things a little bit
differently if they've had other installers and I'm referring more to commercial than I am residential um they
that other companies that go in there and they do they go about things a different way a different process than you um whether it takes them longer or
they can get it done in a shorter amount of time you know and it's like well the last company was only here they they did
every phase in three days or four days and you're telling me five yeah like you know I'm I'm sorry I I don't know I
can't speak for them I can only speak for myself this is our process this is you know sometimes you gotta go step by
step and they like well they didn't do that well they didn't even that right A lot of it like that we deal with is like
us going in there and then they're like well they they what he said you know
you're adding a day on and then you you know pick up a carpet tole and they didn't scrape any of the adhesive and
it's like well and then you you have to kind of explain to him well this is what
they didn't do and this is what we're going to do and then if they didn't do it why do you guys have to it's it's
constant yeah con and we always talk about this constant communication right
kind of going over education too yeah yeah I think um a lot of the contractors
that we work with don't deal with people like that they're just like and there was man there was a a post on one of the
sites earlier it was an inspection and they were like why didn't you do this and why didn't you do that wasn't on the
work order so they deal with people that are like that right you know the installs it's not on the work order that
means I'm not going to do it because I'm not going to get paid for it and that that's kind of what what
we've been having to deal with and it's like well this is how it's supposed to be and you know give them I can give
give them all the documentation too right I mean it's in everyone's documentation look at
any I mean we always start with prep just look at the prep and even the prep says that you either got to get it down
to a thin film or it's got to be gone altoe and then priming it if you do get
it down to a residue depending on which adhesive you're using you got to you possibly got to primate and I mean
there's just so many things to it um yeah it seems to me like the education
part is the the piece that a lot of people forget is giving that client the
why um I know some sometimes our guys fail to do that part um I think that's
you know you can't skin over that you got to really explain that like backing systems change right now this is the
installation instru instructions this is how it has to be done this is why it's
going to take us a day longer or two days longer whatever the case may be right and then yeah it it's just a
matter of communicating if you know your process communicate your process um and it it doesn't matter if it takes you
longer or if you get it done quicker than the previous installer just worry about that one that one portion that one
phase and communicate your your worries I mean there's nothing else you can
really do besides that unless you're in the position well you know how can I mean we're trying to give the the
audience some tools here because they we all deal with this you guys know as well as I do how
the pressure gets on during these projects and it's like we don't care we just got to get it done
and giving tools to the audience that like
communication uh education about how it's supposed to be done and why you got
to do it it's like those things are really almost Paramount to to the timing
portion of managing the client's expectations um to back up in the cycle
a little bit what about sales you know managing the the brain was already going
to right right when you go to sell something man kind of throughout that sales process managing the expectation
from a you know a wearability maybe that's just more education about uh the
products that are available and where they should and should not be installed but what what kind of things do you
think about when you think about management of expectations during the sales process so so I I I think uh
lately I've been I don't say lately but um I found success into asking questions
right trying to find out what the issues are what their what their worries are um and then and then building off of that
and then finding Solutions uh moving forward whether it's a a design build or
already uh contracted I just try to find out what their worries are right because
that's all that's going to be in their head when you're having a meeting and you're and you're in the sales process as they're concerned about losing money
they're concerned about displacement they're concerned about hours of operation dust I mean there's they have
a lot of concerns so I just try to what are your top three concerns right now moving forward in this project um and
then that leads to lot of other questions and solutions and and that's how I try to go about it but that's I
like that dude that's ask straight up what are your top three concerns yeah in
as we get started on this project and and um matter of fact I just had a meeting this uh this week over U there
was a concern about Mr a couple MRI machines and they want to keep them operational right but then you have to
worry about uh the magnetic pole and there's a lot of I had a lot of questions and the the gentleman were
just like nobody's ever asked me any of these questions I'm like well sorry I just
want to like I just need to make sure that I understand like how many pounds
uh for for for the mass and of the the steel item like you know what can we do
and he was just like I don't know like it's all listed under the ASM standards
for for this and that's why they have that's why we're putting the marks in the floor um so it's just a matter of
asking all the right questions at the beginning um because now I know yeah you guys going to have to use ceramic blades
and ceramic knives and all that stuff you you had to do that before right I think you you told about that yeah we
had to buy a whole BN amazingly enough there's not like a
kit we had to go searching for everything we found a c ceramic
uh you know knife like a a knife and then the blades themselves were
ceramic uh we had to use a plastic roller uh like hand
roller um or Zen what is it um potted steel or whatever it is that's not
magnetic I forget the composition of it there's like very few Metals you can use
aluminum things like that things are not magnetic but the knife blades and all that stuff
uh you still have all this stuff yeah we do yeah let me know if you guys uh at
the very least and amazingly it's pretty it's not like it was expensive stuff in fact when
you take metal out of everything it tends to get cheaper all of a sudden
it's all made of plastic and and rubber and all that stuff even the the pins
that held the roller together we still have it but I it probably won't last you more than one job if you have any any
level of work because everything is made out of plastic even the pins that hold the wheels into the plastic handh holder
the whole thing is plastic man they can they can probably do a little bit better
with some cast aluminum or or or something that's got a a lower um what's
the what's the property called it's the pins and stuff inside of them it'll suck a pin right out of one of those things
and the cotter pins and the just all the stuff that holds it together the like your regular rollers are made out of a
not they're not a lot of them aren't magnetic you know the little hand rollers you said that but the pins and
the the rod that goes through to hold the wheels on is steel one of the solutions was to wear a
a band around the arm and have all the hand tools tethered off um so everything
is grounded well is Tethered to you so that it go you know it doesn't because
the smaller the tool the less pull the larger I I I don't know the magnetic
pool exactly but I the guy that that was dealing with the the machine said he's
seen it suck keys right through people's jeans so uh I don't know if I'd want to
be Tethered to something well they they did they do have they have some new rules like um
the person cannot be between the unit and their tools anymore they've had a couple bad experiences and um one of the
guys there said that his Milwaukee uh impact gun got sucked into it boom and hit it and they had to shut it down and
it takes two weeks to power those things back on so yeah anyway I'm talk offline on in
the Weeds on that my brain is still remembering that project but yeah managing expectations from a uh on the
sales side for us is always talking about like the the product expectation
how are they going to use the product or the space and trying to get out in front
of any quality concerns we might have um and then you got to do that again if you
get to a job site that has really poor substrate or something and you start
talking about I've got five days to do this area I
cannot get it all prepped perfectly and get this lvt or sheet vinyl or whatever
installed in five days so either I need four more days or I need to manage the
quality expectations and make it very clear uh you know probably what the
floor is going to look like to the best of our ability uh that's another thing that's really important and then um you
know on the sales side just to back up a bit again uh payment expectations like I
want to make sure that we kind of have clear rules around payment and and
releasing of funds particularly when we deal with our it's kind of written in the contract when we're dealing with our
gc's but if we're dealing with end users which we do quite often you know making sure that those those uh understanding
of a big enduser project hey we need to get paid for stored materials as soon as
we either order them or they uh you know arrive at our warehouse or whatever uh
mechanism it is so if you're out there and you're just getting into commercial these are some of the things you really
want to think about if you're if you're working in residential through a shop I
know a lot of that's probably already handled and the salesperson does this stuff but if you're selling a job to an end
user on a commercial job you want to talk through the the payment expectations as well you don't want to
put yourself in a bad financial situation by floating um funds that you probably shouldn't be floating I mean um
I just had a conversation with a with a a company this week about it and uh I
was just like well that's a are you guys been this I would like to but um I need to find out if there's a better better
options for payment because that's a lot of material to be sitting on for two two and a half years through the duration I
know that we'd be you know Progressive billing but she just said oh okay
Clint Daniel's like Progressive progress villing that wasn't your
department and that meeting that I was saying earlier that we were at um they were actually talking
about um like redoing their payment terms for
smaller contractors like us because they're trying to you know get more small people in there yeah and he's like
this is the only way that you know we realize now that this is going to happen is if we actually go through and rewrite
everything and it's only going to be for you know certain contracts it's not going to be in every single contract so
that way if you guys you know do win a bid it's a matter of this is these are your terms and you know if someone else
wins it they don't they don't get those terms so I think uh we're we're kind of in our area at that Forefront where we
go in and make a lot of noise and we have been for the past few years and it's it took you know three four years
but they're finally they're finally hearing us yeah that's a
um that that's an interesting problem that a lot of people don't understand if
they don't hear it from you which is yeah I mean profit money that's one
thing but you can make all the profit in the world that the cash ain't flowing the cash ain't flowing and so
yeah that's that's one of them deals where you guys going out there and and communicating that's again another
overarching theme it seems like comes up in every podcast is communicating but
letting it be known that I'd love to do your job and I'll knock it out of the park for you but we got to come up with
some payment terms that that works for our company yeah 100 and don't be shy
about it right like open communication at the beginning if if you wait until
you are awarded the contract then you say hey I can't because I didn't not getting paid for the material and it's
you know they're not they're like because of my job no it's because of all of them there's no communication but you
you can't wait until it's a problem to try to fix it that that's a really upfront
communication um or a conversation you should have up front the beginning of any project know those dollars and cents
going out know the time frames um and it could affect your installers too like if you have subcontractors doing all the
work and you're tying up your finances on materials you know just think about what it's going to do to the the the
subs and your team that you have working for you right you can't put yourself in in a bad spot there that's uh because
then communication from them home isn't gonna be so good
well and you got to have somebody put the stuff down at the end of the day you know so maintaining those relationships
a lot of times are more important than anything so you it depending on how you
pay your subs I was took a trip down to Texas and got an earful from a guy
saying well if your platform would solve the problem of Subs having to get paid
every week and when we have to wait till the contractor gets paid to get paid and
when in in law the contract is governs
all parties in the job and I'm like yeah but you you there's very few Subs that
are going to wait 30 60 days for their stuff why would they work through you then they might as well go open Accounts
at the vendor and become your competitor that the the main reason Subs are
willing to do labor only is because they get paid every week they don't have to to wait on the money as long as they do
good quality work they get PA paid each week by most contractors not all but you
know most of them anyway that's a whole another podcast if we want proba break that one down so so you're were talking
about prep earlier right we'll get back on track about prep and you know you you
can't do anything destructive sometimes when you go look at these jobs right and there was just um we just did an
orthodontics office and I was walking through and I see some signs of uh
moisture and stuff and and it looked like it was topical and come to find out
it was it was it was an insurance claim and what happened happened was the cleaning people went in there with some chemical and flooded the
place and it turned all their tile like a pinkish color so I'm like well I don't know
what's underneath here so when I priced it out I priced out self- leving the entire thing you know and good thing I
did because it was Jack look like I mean it look they
took an exterior wall down extended it out to where it looked there was a porch on there
before and I mean it was it was fun pretty gnarly it sounds
like what what T what kind of tile was it just out of curiosity it turned pink was it like lvt or was it it was an
lvt was it okay yeah it was an lvt I don't know what brand or anything no I
was just curious rubber tile lvt VCT what was the the uh type of product be
eight mil wear layer six mil wear layer uh bottom of the barrel LBT I mean I don't I don't want
to throw name name brands out there because I know who they were using and we did not put that brand back in there
but they're happy with that's probably best and you know we went in there and
um turned out really good it did well a lot of times you know the re
let me just ask you what what is why is this topic important why is it important to to
manage customer expectations because customers are what help build your business customers are the best
advertisement that any single company can have you can shoot out as much
socials as possible adverti to your blue in the face um and and it goes back to the the
thing that the guy when I start doing flooring Ray told me he's like you could do a million things right bud but people
will only remember you for the one thing you did wrong and that's the that's really the point right yeah like you
could you can knock it out of the park with quality say time is the problem but if
they get in there three days late or what they felt was three days late then
they remember that and that's what they it's like they judge you by that so it's
it's important to be clear and concise on the um what you can actually get
accomplished and not just give lip service to your clients sometimes that's a difficult conversation I want to bring
that up sometimes it's hard like I can't do that in five days or whatever the time frame is I I need 10 days or 12
days or whatever and that's when a lot of times you'll hear well I did this before at another we did another clinic
in Pennsylvania and it only took people just throw five more people on it like what's five more people gonna do
man this like this I've had that conversation quite a bit so it's incredibly important to to take this
serious to take the part of talking to your client communicating expectations and getting buyin from them that's that
final piece is like you educate and you communicate with them and you tell them
what the deal is but then getting them to buy into that and believe that that you're giving them the best your only
goal is to give them the best product then then you have a better a much better scenario that you're working
under you're going to have a happier client like you just said because you're going to have they you're going to meet
the expectation or just like like we talked about earlier maybe even beat it
because you didn't you know you you undersold and overd delivered and and I would like to add to
that too is um humility goes along with the hard
conversations I mean they're hard because nobody wants to have them but they shouldn't be put
off they they should be hey you have a few minutes we have to talk there's a
couple things not not going right and we I'd like to discuss this with you right instead of trying to put out that fire
when you hit that deadline and you're not done or you thought you have to have that communication
and as hard as it is every time
it does get easier to have that conversation it doesn't get easier to
face to face have the conversation or even on the phone but it gets easier because you understand why you have to
have it yeah and if it's gonna come up eventually anyways right and it's either
it it comes from you or it comes from the results or it comes from the people
that are are Staffing the project you know I'd rather it come from me 100% like if we ding a door or something I
mean it's happens all the time right you you hit a piece of trim you you know hit
a tool into a door or something or a wall and it's like hey this is what
happened um if you have someone to take care of it that's awesome you know let me know if not we'll see what we can do
to take care of it yeah yeah
so it's an interesting thing you said Daniel that you know you're going to have the conversation either way you
might as well have it up front right that's what you're implying and I I 100%
agree and it's because after the problems happened or after you've
already not met a schedule or the quality of the product you know maybe it
it got installed wonderfully but it was just an impossible situation having that conversation at
the end of the day what's it sound like it always sounds like an excuses on the front side it sounds like planning on
the back side it sounds like excuses that's a good way so that's that's one of those uh that's
one of those management of uh you know clients desires and then sometimes you
cannot uh you get into some situations where you cannot win and then I would
say document your rare end off yep and and uh if you do recognize early enough
those situations where where you can't win it's sometimes it's best to say you
know what this is this conversation is going nowhere I'm just going to try to take care of what we have to take care of and
and we'll continue this at a later date try to walk away um I've been the person to not walk away um because when you
feel you're right you you want someone to to to to view your point only right
but sometimes you gotta walk away cool down and come back let that let that M Meat marinate for a second let what you
said marinate for a little bit and then go back and and a lot of times you'll see they'll come and say Hey you kind of
had a good point there like you know how can we work through this you know if you
if you like you said you're you're humble right and managing the expectations right sometimes it's
managing somebody else's feelings sometimes it's managing somebody else's life um and sometimes it's managing
yours and all that's got to be considered um and it's I think the older
you get the easier it is to recognize right because you've just been through more situations but um when I was young
I definitely I definitely didn't want to recognize anything but getting floor down yeah you're in my way get out of my
way well sometimes you still got to be that way it's U different wording though
different wording just just a different delivery yeah no no uh I'm about to
shake you off that ladder yeah
yeah I know that one yeah me too just start gluing just start gluing glue them
in there glue around the ladder so
um when you guys deal with residential is there any particular like parts of
what we've talked about that matter more or a different way of discussing when you're talking to a homeowner I know uh
just to a quick um backstory I we did residential and we
we still do but it's just like new uh residential just not residential replacement unless it's for a really
good friend but back when I I actually did the mobile showroom long before
we're talking like 2002 2003 2002 uh we
had a mobile showroom and um in doing that I got out of the residential real
quick we were probably doing that for six months and not because of sales not because of profits I just could not deal
with I was too young and too uh yeah and and used to commercial um to
to manage those things so how do you do that because people take off for vacation they've got you know Christmas
holidays coming up right and people they want their bathroom to look the best for when their family flies in or they got a
kitchen that they want to get remodeled right in time a whole bunch of scenario that we just like literally went through
over the past um so
residential what's the Nuance that's what I that's what I'm trying to get like what's the Nuance for
residential patience understand that it's a home not a business and also understand that
you're not working with a bunch of contractors who understand the language already you're working with a homeowner
who is essentially asking to be educated if they don't already know a little bit
and that is the the hardest part that I have ever
dealt with for residential is making sure that I was very clear on my end so
that way the questions on the back end are towards the end of the job were well we didn't discuss that right because if
you don't say it that means it's not going to happen if you don't bring it up that means it was never an issue so so
um I'm finding a mixture now back then it wasn't it was all conversation and
and um that's pretty much it and they would WR take notes I would take notes but a combination of emails text and and
a phone call or face to face to make sure that it's clear make sure everything is
clear um it's is well worth your time um saves a lot at the
end well you know I mean that's kind of the same as commercial I guess I mean
you're really just trying to State clearly what you can get done but a lot of homeowners
uh I I suspect you know they they have five days vacation they're going to take
it and they want to get their entire house re re fled or
whatever that that that has to take some Nuance to like Empire commercial well I
saw the commercial and Empire they did the whole living room everything and he just went like
this yeah there's a little more to it yeah yeah well and there's those companies out there those residential
companies that's like floors installed the next day yeah yeah and how often does that
actually happen I don't know that's not my world
I'm always I'm and I know it's not your guys's either that um you know again a
whole another podcast against this free installation and that kind of talk
should we do have a couple residential installers chiming in Kendall says that 100% it takes a lot of patience like
hands down right and then uh Derek says that um taking the little extra time to
to talk to the client you know get the homeowner say hey it's kind of what's going on and you know just take him
through the process and then he says once you get the homeowner on your side it's pretty much do whatever you need to
do to make it make it right I don't want to be living here and then having you
know issues popping up throughout the lifetime of this floor if it's going to be done right now do it do it right so
there's there's two pieces of nuance then yeah like a uh and I I appreciate
what Kendall commented there is patience if you show frustration I'm assuming
he's he's indicating don't show frustration to your to the homeowner and just be very patient with them and you
know it can get rough and tumble in the commercial world you got you can get into it with the superintendent and the
next day you guys are high-fiving that's just that different world you get into it with a a homeowner I'm I'm just
assuming that like the one or two times it happened to me I was the SOB of the
world like I was not their favorite person ever you look at it and I'll go back to the groups again right because I
remember seeing a post that was like per this homeowner like kicked me out of their
house and they won't give me my tools back like what is going on you gota look at it like this too like you're in
someone's home right like you are in their their personal their domain their their their Kingdom and how how would
that how feel if would you just let someone you don't like in your home
right and feel you have to babysit them or someone you don't trust no right so like as soon as I decide like I don't
like someone last place they're gonna be is in my house true you know and and that's that's the hard part right there
is and and it's not about making them like see your way because I don't try to oversell if you if you
start over selling things because you're trying to sell things instead of find Solutions they're going to pick up
anybody will pick up on that right away way anybody uh but if you're helping
find Solutions and and being authentic um then it creates a better relationship right away Express concerns
but not like ah you you know you don't want that that's garbage well that's not really
the quality that that we are talking about like we're talking about a quality that's right here and the material that
that you keep picking is down here I know that the price point isn't isn't what what you want but in order to get
that quality up here we have to raise that budget a little bit well that's when you start talking value right the
value of this flooring you're not going to get the same value out of this and it's only 15 cents a square foot more
you know you're talking pennies yeah you're and and like you brought up the electricians earlier I'm sure that that
same kind of thing whether it's light switches or Outlets or things of that nature that that they have to do that
they they have that same thing it it seems to me that managing uh uh you know
specifically the um homeowner and that other Nuance was
quality is important on our commercial jobs but you know as well as I do on the
superintendent knows he's walking away when when that job's over he's just
trying to get his job done on time and a lot of homeowners it sounds like to me
what was the other gentleman that commented that because it sounds like to me that what's that
DK it seems like to me when you when you uh if you can bring the quality that
that value to the Forefront and say Hey I want you to love your home forever and I'm just spitballing here but I want you
to love your your flooring forever and rushing through this XYZ process is not
going to do that for you I want to do it right you got to live on this floor I want you to be happy for life so
building the value around quality sounds like one of them nuances I mean I've done that tried to do that with
commercial companies and a lot of times you just run into this like I don't care you're a professional
get it done get more guys do whatever you got to do it's your problem I have you under contract and the schedule
State you're going to be done on this day you got to figure that out it's it's more AB BR you just made me think of
something too and in um commercial World they don't want to micromanage what you're doing right they they want you to
come in do your job they're just expecting that you're going to do the best possible job you can with the
equipment material you're ordering um residential if they're present and
they're there they want to feel like they are part of the progress they want to micromanage I would call it but it's
not really micromanaging microw watch yeah it's a
it's they're just absorbing information and helping through the process and once something clicks they want to be part of
it 100% so you just made me think about it in a different different way so now yeah learn how to be nicer I
guess huh well we also don't I'm assuming you don't have like written not
the contracts we go through I was just reading contracts you know some of them are that thick you know what I'm saying
you don't have that kind of governance around a residential job either so your your real governance is your relationship with that homeowner it
sounds like I'm just picking up on some Nuance from the comments here but you
know you gotta your contract is kind of more of the relationship with that person because they can kick you out of
their house tell the store wherever they bought the stuff I want someone else
or if it was direct with you just hire someone else and there's just not a lot of recourse for you I really like this
person we'll just order the material before the down payment I don't like we're not ordering anything till I get
paid Kendall say we talked about you know a few times too it's presentation when you're working in residential you
know show up introduce yourself introduce your crew and you know look the part you you
don't want anyone just I mean we've all we've all known one or two of the guys
that's like I can't really send you to this job man because you're the nicest guy I know but
the face tattoos are not going to work you know what I mean I've always been to
go against the grain so it's it's I try not to use that right but but you know
as well as I do that certain things uh would put would
make clients feel uncomfortable right like you can't bring your kid to work sometimes in residential just like um
you you have your your kid doing what you know and you certainly can't do it
in commercial you're kicked off you can't send a leak van um a van that's
leaking oil into um a concrete driveway with this brand new you know brand new
construction you know there's just things that you can't do you know what I mean um but as far as like um let's just
say demographic and then uh two different demographics coming together on a job site man like back in the day
it was like am I gonna be okay going there because I'm Hispanic right well now it's
they don't care if you have a man Bond they don't care you're black white whatever like they just if you're
professional and you're cordial and you do a good job yeah so as see if I can mentioned we were talking to uh Brian
artioli I don't know if you were there for this conversation or not yeah he was he was saying that um he does like a
white glove service and he'll go in there and when he starts moving furniture you know they they put on the
white gloves to make sure that they're not leaving fingerprints and stuff he says and you know most of the time it's
just a gimmick you just you want those clients to see like if if we have the house the white gloves ain't going on
but if there there's a homeowner there you're like and they're not paying attention you're like hey um you don't yell hey but you're
like um the white gloves on you know just getting their attention real quick just walk around looking like Mickey
Mouse but you want to make sure that they know that you're you know how precious their stuff is to them because
it's the same thing in your house right like the hell are you doing move my stuff around like that bro like that's been in the family for 50
years yeah that that that side of the world man you guys um kudos to to the
residential guys out there because it takes a certain demeanor um and approach it sounds like
for sure to to gain the trust and you only have a few minutes right I mean
that's human nature uh you only have a few minutes whereas like
superintendent or something like that on a on a commercial job even if they don't
like you they don't care as long they don't care you don't care as long as you get the job done and and there's plenty
of superintendant over the years that did not care for me and but I got their
job done and I was respectful enough and you could get into it
and I you know there's just different solutions in the construction uh commercial construction world not so
much as as today as it used to be but I remember um getting into a a little
verbal scuffle with the superintendent taking him a six-pack of beer the next day and saying uh I still don't like it
but here's here's beer for uh as a peace offering you know we got along the rest
of the job he still didn't care for me probably but at the end of the day we got the job done it looked wonderful and
he helped make sure that the areas were ready so you know there those nuances
between how to keep different types of customers happy and it starts with
managing the expectation going into the job we talked about a lot of what we
talked about was like gc's and then homeowners right but you also have your commercial where you contract with you
know those owners direct and then that's when you you do have to think more like
the orthodontist that we did I went and bought a bunch of plastic they got you know all their their equipment in there
that's going to stay in there and it's like I'm not trying to have you guys clean everything so we plastic everything off and take everything up
right there there's there's things like that that when you're working direct with the the client on commercial that
they're just not thinking about the same things that a construction company knows like that's a standard we know we're gonna have to clean this while we're
done you know but they're we're just doing the floors we shouldn't have to do anything if if you do the same job
through a GC you're like you go in there and you do it and then they're like all this stuff is Dusty and it's like wasn't
in my contract man like yeah I didn't have protection of yeah everything in
dust dust protection and yeah it all comes down to understanding
what the client's really looking for it sounds like you know yeah how to best manage that uh I hope that everybody got
some like tidbits and tips and and tricks um I do like the you know
learning about the residential World um tell you in building go careera one of
the things that has come to light is we basically have a toggle on the site on
when you sign up for your profile that's like how much residential and how much commercial have you done versus
commercial have you done in the last three to five years or whatever one of the retail clients were
were doing a beta test with now said well where's your retail replacement toggle and I like what are you talking
about he goes man our we have residential guys that do wonderful work
that are like Bulls in a China closet when you send them to a residential replacement like you need to figure out
a way to identify the residential replacement installers versus just the
residential installers who know how to do good stretch in or good residential installation I was like it's a Nuance I
never even thought of you know there's so many vertical markets just in our industry that it's crazy it does
right um a a build a brand new build is way different than
uh a renovation and I think Daniel has it categorized in our system too from uh
remodels to new construction to health care so he's got all those markets separated in there so we can see where
we're where we're where we're making money and where we're not yes yeah
that's that's the reason but it probably does help you planning on the front side too um it definitely
helps it helps everyone understand that there's going to be a different set of guidelines for that project does that
make sense like yeah this is residential remodel I don't think I've ever done a brand new residential project I'll be
honest I don't think I've ever had that luxury no all brand new residentials had
been multif family units whether it's you know yeah like it
could just be like four Apartments but it's never just a brand new house that's
more like what Dirk does he he'll go you know he has accounts with some Builders and it's like we're building 24 houses
this year first one starts on this day and last one is going on this day
interesting yeah there are a lot of verticals in our business so key takeaways for sounds like be respectful
build rapport communicate and educate like that's
that's what I've I've gotten out of this and execute and execute yeah do what you
say you can do and then kind of buffer that a little bit
awesome we always goad we talk about exceeding e customers expectations so
that's where under promise and O overd deliver comes from right it's like go in there
with a mindset that you're gonna you're going to blow every single
job out of the water you want them people to look at everything and be like this is amazing just have that mindset
every time you go on a job yeah and if you're not confident um in how you're gonna the process or the
execution be confident that you're G to have a solution for that right because then then you can talk around that point
I I say talk around it then you can avoid having that conversation about how you're not comfortable and have the
conversation about this is what I'm GNA do to remedy um if we were to hit the
scenario awesome well guys got we've we've kind of uh mustered through that
one and uh I I tell you there's always like this thought in my head when I come
away with some new ideas of of or new nuggets from the podcast because I learn
as much as as anybody in these things of how do I go back and uh Implement some
of it you know and I think the being really clear with your customer um is
probably the the the give it like how do I say it
it's the um everybody knows that but building the relationships in different
manners and specifically when you start talking about residential um it sounds
like to me that it goes a long way if the person likes you like you said you're going to be in their home so it
goes a long way if if they like you and you treat them they got more going on later they'll invite you back
yep cool well guys um I'm sure we're gonna talk about the scholarship before
we get off of here too oh good point uh so coming up we're GNA be the the Sim
scholarship is still uh going uh we we will be announcing that here in about 10
days the the winner we announc it in January but it's still going on closes
in about 10 or yeah EXA thank you for the clarification that's why it closes
it closes uh in about 101 15 days and then we'll be announcing that in January
so make sure to sign up I know it's on all of our socials um Ashlin if you'll
post it again as a reminder to everybody and we'll all reshare and reshare so uh
you can also go to our blog and and find about it there at go career.com um and then Ty is coming up that's kind
of the next show in January I'll be speaking at that event on a few different topics I have two speaking
engagements there so I'll be speaking at that event and and and um one of them uh one of the topics
already been set and it's going to be about Labor obviously I I feel like that's where my uh at least competency
is so uh come join us there it's in Las Vegas you'll never have a bad time anyway especially Las Vegas in January
so don't bring the right shoes you'll have a bad time yeah stores everywhere
though so it's fine yeah if you don't bring it just buy it that's what my wife says anyway that's what I say too except
for when we travel out of the country then I'm like I'll be all right without this for five days or
whatever all right guys well um we will catch you guys next week and uh we'll be
coming up on you guys got any Christmas parties planned for your company not yet I was actually just looking at a
few things earlier I haven't even talked to him about it yet so stay tuned stay tuned all right all right guys well I
appreciate you so much and uh great topic really good conversation so I
appreciate everybody participating if you are watching this on one of our social channels please comment let us
know what you want us to talk about what would you like to hear from us uh or you
know give us some feedback on on what you thought of the podcast if you're on YouTube give us a like And subscribe
thumbs up thumbs down either way it doesn't matter to us it does help us to get noticed on the good old YouTube
algorithm the more people that watch and and interact with our videos so with that I will let you guys go and we will
The Huddle - Episode 74 - A New Generation of Labor
This week Daniel & Jose discuss new labor coming into the industry, how current tradesworkers can support them, and the differences in past generations to now.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
oh I can't make it uh this week he's uh out working somewhere where' she say he
was um in the
bathroom talking about a new generation of Labor the the kids
that are entering the workforce and what's going on with these uh these kids
I don't know if we really say kids anymore at that age say
kids so you know everyone talks about how uh
things have changed in the industry and and I don't know if uh it's
necessarily the the work that's changed or just the people coming in and how you do the work I mean everything's still
pretty standard it's just I think expectations have changed the amount of time that you have to get
jobs done so they everyone expects more efficiency right or you have to be more
efficient in order to get the to meet the new timelines I remember when a building used to
take nine months a year or longer right now everything's Fast Track
get everything done in three months yeah I remember when I heard that first time the FasTrack um I for the name of the
company but they're like this is a FasTrack job I just remembered like everybody was cutting corners and it was
it ended up being a very horrible job but um I remember the the schedule and
the scope was just I was like we're supposed to get that done in how fast
but I'm competitive so all right up Kevin watching on LinkedIn made it uh
made it pretty easy I was like oh man that wasn't really that hard but a lot of moving Parts have to be on the same
page um I think part of the topic too was how the trades have
changed um for for me I mean been in the trades
for 25 years so I don't even necessarily not
the trades have changed but how the workers have changed yeah yeah
um to be honest man people nowadays are just soft like nobody I'm gonna have to
look at it from from how I started where where I started and what I was brought into
and back when I started you had to prove yourself and then then you ask now it's
backwards everyone's asking for their reward before they prove themselves nobody really wants to
learn um you know I I grew up uh learning on my own right
like I got better on my own because I wanted to um then when I learned I
didn't just learn at work I learned at home so that way I could be better at work the the more I learned at home and
and practice myself the more um the people I worked for wanted to teach me
because they they seen advancement uh but different breed back then I remember
being the young person and and nobody liking me older older guys old guys that were like in their early 30s old guys
that were younger than you line out um really hated that I was their their boss and I get it it was different back
then it wasn't a it wasn't the norm I would say that a
that a a 20-year-old Hispanic male was the boss of some 30y old uh white
Americans they just felt like they they deserved uh to be in that position I
guess I don't know I didn't really care I just knew that I was asked to do a job and I did it but from then till now the
people that were coming in to the trades and we were teaching were ready to learn they understood what a trade meant they
understood that once you were taught this skill it could never be taken away
it was yours to hold to keep to Cradle take home baby it whatever it was yours
now it's I don't even know how how it's viewed now to be honest with you because I I can't um I'm not in that position
I'm not not young like that I'm always going to view it like I'm learning something that that
someone can't take away um well we just run
into it's weird right because you run into the the younger people that will say that they want to learn a trade but
then as soon as that factory comes knocking on the door and they're going
to give them you know 15 cents more an hour than you're giving them right now they're they're jumping ship right away
so that's kind of what what has changed right because they don't look at the process of from point A to point B they
just come in and be like I want to do flooring and they're like I like your
truck I want to have that truck right now why aren't you paying me enough to have the same truck as you it it almost
seems like that's the mentality of the the generation that's coming to work right now like you said they want
everything right now but then they also the ones that are like they always feel
like they they deserve more no matter how much you're giving them I don't think that's necessarily A generational
thing because that's been happening for years well I don't think yeah it's not generation I think it's a culture thing
um from what the media is pushing to what they're being told in
school now like I don't even know what kids are being told in school nowadays so it's
um I don't know if they're they're pushing trades they're pushing I mean they're always pushing higher education
right because it's it's a business they they want they want to have the the education continued so that way they
could collect uh funds from from these poor unsuspecting young
kids without a plan that's weird I'll go off on a
tangent on that one too but um I don't I know that they're pushing
trades more and more because we we see it all the time where
especially like um the the construction companies that we do work for they're
always at these events at the schools and yeah well the over here we have the
the West Michigan construction Institute Yep they're very involved with the community very involved with the school systems um from believe Middle School
through high school and even adult education so that that's that's very helpful so I guess yeah they're bringing
awareness to it um but but it's it's the it's the mindset
of of these kids right because they're we in the information age um everything
is at your fingertips these days and then they see all these people becoming
millionaires on social media right yeah influencers and everyone just wants to be an influencer and then there was
actually some influencers um that were talking about it and they're like not everyone is
is is going to be a Tik Tock star or a YouTube Star there's still people that
need to work you know people still need to build our society and that's what
what we're lacking is is the kids actually coming up and knowing
that I'm still gonna have to work everything's not just going to happen and I'm not just gonna be famous
overnight I mean it does happen to some people right I mean that's that's that's a the the thing it's and some of these
people that's all they want to do they have their mind set on this is all I want to do that's all I'm going to try
and then they come to work and don't give it their all and it's like what's how do you
change their mindset on that I don't know how to change
mindset I think um in order to change mindset you have
to show them that and here's the problem you you show them that you're interested in in helping them get better continue
their education in what they want to be better at and then instead of it being a
luxury it becomes an expectation and I think that that's part of some of the change too is that um nobody views uh
amenities as a luxury anymore it's more of an expectation which makes it harder in a lot of smaller businesses um and I
think that that's where we Chang we because everyone looks at the corporate world and thingss that that that's the the business no
matter how big it is right it's I'm going to go work for this company why don't you guys have this why don't you have that when they don't understand
that small businesses don't have that luxury we're not making billions of dollars a year uh Jake said that we came
up where with the thought that you had to work for what you wanted and earn the money to get it right and like you said
you know we've already touched on this a couple times and then we're only 10 minutes in it's they come in with the
expectation of this is what I already deserve not let me work up to this point
and then get what I want it's it's always
uh they're like I said they're essentially trying to come in
and make exactly what we're making now with
zero effort zero time yeah with no no time into the industry yeah and I think
that people ask like hey how can I get to this point um and I just said I need time I need your time like time is the
most valuable thing that you can you can offer it's the most valuable thing to to each individual but it takes time
to to hone your craft what doesn't matter what it is
um just time if you're not willing to put in the time then you're not going to get
to where you're at you said something about like the truck or whatever I remember there was a conversation on on
Facebook about that too like oh they got flashy truck like that's my truck dude
like I I bought it with with for me like so I could use for me for
work um it might say a company name on it but it's still mine just got blown
engines and smaller trucks and it that took well that's that's besides the point right because it doesn't matter
who owns the truck it's working up to that point in order to be able to get there it's like they don't they don't
look at the the 20 years 20 years ago when we started they just look at this is what we have now yeah and that goes
for everyone in the trade like construction wise like there's a couple buddies of mine
that they have small businesses too I remember when they started they didn't have anything now I'm looking at uh my
buddy who's doing landscaping he's got heavy equipment he's got like like I look at that stuff and I'm like you go
dude like hell yeah he's putting in the work caros is on here right now too he works with a lot of the I don't know if
he necessarily works with the kids but he's really involved in the job core right yes so hey young adult stent send
me that new email young adults right and and getting
them their their foot in the door to the industry and that you know that's one of the things that that really helps out
is these programs that are set up in order to to get a Hands-On approach
instead of starting off you know full bore into the industry which I
mean that's how we all started and kind of just worked out but it it's nice that
these kids have and I'm calling them kids again these uh these people have
the option to to go through so he's old yeah I'm I'm really old now
basically 40
um I don't know if we're really going off that topic or not but like if
um the new generation of Labor how important is the new generation of Labor so the generation that's getting trained
right now and that's entering the system whether or not they want to be up here right away or they're willing to start
at the bottom of the totem pole or near the bottom um you guys are the you guys are are
essentially the the doctors of the future right you're going to be so far in fewe between in 10 years that you're
G to be worth far more in 10 years than you are right now and that's going to expedite anybody's career in the trades
um they're gonna it's gonna the value is gonna be put on You by by the public not
by your achievements is by the public and
um there's not GNA be very many people uh in the in the trades I don't I don't have that metric and I don't know where
to find that metric to be honest with you but based off the conversations that we have here at the local chamber and
projections over the next 10 years plus all the talk that we have with Paul is uh it's not looking very promising for
the amount of work that's going to be coming into the trades versus the amount of people available for them whether
it's the flooring industry or not um there's going to be a a very high demand
um and and we're going to you're probably going to see a very big offset um in uh ability to adjust pricing
accordingly um and if you are getting in now and you're learning learn with
purpose 100% learn with purpose um both of these guys are like Carlos
says the future installers need us right and he's 100% right and then you look at
what Jake is saying he's like uh a lot of the guys out there didn't
really teach the young people coming in right we and we we constantly touch on this too it's where it's like I'm not
going to teach you because then you're going to start taking my work so in in a in a nutshell like we not we but like
industrywide we as an industry kind of put ourselves into the position that we're
in and well that's where the like the word trade secret right like that's a
trade secret well you know what should never have came up with that term because that's what put us in the
position we're in now nobody wants to go somewhere and devote their time to not learn
everything to not learn the secrets um I would rather teach somebody how to do
what how to do what I know how to do so that way I can do something else and
move on um but and and that's you know something that that the kids coming into
have to understand as well though right it's you you have to start at the bottom and work yourself up to the top so you're
going to be doing trash you're going to be doing you know the thing that no one necessarily wants to do but still have
to get done it's part of the process um and and that's where I can see where you
know a lot of the not teaching comes in because a lot of the time
and you know some of us I'm guilty of it it's I'll do this you just go do that
like I don't have time for this right now you just go do that and that's where the FastTrack projects came into play
right like before when I started um just in general back in the day you'd have
time to teach and train people once everything got fast-tracked and that became that became the new control that
became the new um standard and expectation um your your window of
opportunity to teach comfortably uh shrunk right uh uh so you had to get
more people with more skills faster to get the job done in a shorter amount of time but then we're still expected to
pass on information and train properly um and and that's where like uh like the
unions and all that have a oneup where they have their own requirements and training programs and and you know some of that like they have to go up every
other weekend or once a one weekend a month right and it's all it's paid training and that's
what what a lot of the guys don't understand it's that a lot of what you
learn has to kind of be on your own time whether it's a half hour a day that you're not scrolling on social media and
you're actually learning something I mean look at all the the Publications that are out right grab one of the
flooring magazines read an article there's plenty of of guys that are
sharing their knowledge that you can learn you know just a little bit you know something that didn't know yesterday you can learn today and take
that time out and like I said like many small time make big time it's read this
today read that you know in a few days read the the bucket grab some Lit
Literature out of whatever flooring that you're doing and and read up on it it's the amount of people that don't
know that there's actual standards in flooring installation is mindboggling
and um I I think that's where we have a leg up on the the new people that are
coming in right now is because you can teach them right off the bat there's standards this is what we're following
um NCT I've got their hat on today their substrate and subfloor program is
amazing it I've been we've been doing this for over 20 years and we learned so
much on going through that you know it's it's crazy the amount of information
that you don't know you have until you actually have front view yeah it's
um this just one of those things like Daniel says another tool for you toolbox
is um coming into the industry right now and in order to be prep for the future man you better better load up that
toolbox with as much as you possibly can um I think uh the future of any industry
flooring or any industry in the trades is going to be in a very bad shape or
very bad condition if if you don't start loading that toolbox sooner than later and Jake says right here you know the
guys that that taught us weren't necessarily and I'm not reading verbatim
but you know they weren't the nicest right it's get this done or guilty or they they get angry and
it's like uh and then he says right after that that it takes a lot of patience to train
the new people and it really does because it's not we're not training the
same people that we were 20 years yeah there's definitely um and that's what it is is is they're
approaching life through a different lens than what we had right the lens that they have now this is the same way
like my son's 10 years old talking to me about gaming PCs and all that I don't
know anything about that stuff right but he's that's what he's growing up with like he he's 10 he knows a lot about
that and Daniel's only six years younger than I am and the difference in knowledge on Tech versus uh in this sixy
year Gap is was very substantial so he grew up through it with a different lens
than what I did even six years apart I can only imagine 20 years apart 25 years apart and that's what we're dealing with
right now and it's not just just the the world changes technology Changes
Everything Changes and then we have to start looking at ourselves too through that lens and
like you can be like those guys that you learn from and be an a-hole all the time
or you can Channel your inner wooa and have to just let me back up a little bit and
think about what I'm going to say before it comes out of my mouth and sometimes it's real hard sometimes stuff just comes out
still but it's like so like in um in
baseball we use the 24-hour rule right it's if you see the coaches doing
something that you don't necessarily like or the kids doing something it's like you don't approach him right away and say this is what's going on this is
what needs to change it's let me take some time process process it think about
it and then I mean a lot of the times it's like you know TW I come out 24 hours later and it's like you know what
I kind of understand why they were making the decisions that they were do I agree with them
still Maybe maybe not but at the same time I understand why those decisions
were made so it's it's us having to to take a step back and look at the new
generation that that's coming in and realizing that they come from a different time they're not going to be
like us and and kind of empathize with them and
almost baby them into the industry right it's like no we don't want to give you
everything you want like right off the B but we're going to explain to you that this industry is can be lucrative
and you can have a a great life it's just a matter of how much are you gonna take the re on
it and and control your learning to the point to
where I want to be able to to just delegate to you without having to micromanage right hey go do this well I
don't know how to do that well I already showed you this and it's
like that's where the training programs and stuff come in too it's it's it's on us to create these programs in order for
these people to go through because um over the past couple years I think that's what we've learned right
because we we keep on going this is how you do this all right go do it and then it comes back and this is in in the
office and in the field and then it comes back well I don't remember I don't remember you telling me this
I never did this it's like we do this every single day you guys want to say
like I always have a notebook and this is old school stuff like I like to write it out a lot of
people use notes on their phone but that that's that's the biggest part of it too is
uh showing initiative to to take notes not just mental notes but actual
notes um to refer back to like you hear it now you're writing it
now you're seeing it less chance of you forgetting it and that's part of that's part of uh the the training and
absorbing it too is uh is doing doing your uh your part to make
sure that you don't forget because I don't man if someone
tried to make it as easy as we try to make it for some of the guys today I don't like I don't know if I would have
honestly I don't know if I would have tried as hard so I don't even know if I would have would be here right now to be
honest with this so I don't I it's hard for me to accept some of the uh I forgot or I
don't remember when literally everything is written out for everyone and handed
to them in a in a gift basket here's what you have
to do today and like it becomes so redundant for for us because it's like I'm going
to give you a work order I'm going to print it out I'm going to put it in here where you know on team so everyone can
see it and then I'm gonna when you get here I'm gonna tell you what you need and then when every day someone has to
come back because it's like I literally told you to grab that like
why and it's frustrating for us but that's just the reality of the
workforce that we have right now it's like babysitting every single
day but but trying to get them to a point where you don't have to right it's like
raising a kid teach them as much as you can but at some point whether they're ready or not it's like go do
this yeah you you sometimes the best way to learn how to swim is jump in the deep end and
fight for it and that's what that's what people don't want anymore people don't
want to get thrown into the deep end and fight for it anymore they they want to sit on the diving board watch everyone
Splash until the until the water's low enough for them to comfortably jump in and
that's that's not going to work in 10 years I don't know if that's ever gonna work to be honest with
you Carlo says uh being patient and training the next generation is worth it because giving them a skill set that
would help them raise a family and become self- sustainable that's that's that's the always the goal right it's
just a matter of who which one of these young kids is going to start grasping on and realizing
that people it's you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink right you can tell them hey I'm G to
teach you what I know but it's on you to to take what I'm teaching you and expand
on that so when we were so I started when I was 12 he you were
18 so fresh into the trade at 18 and then once I graduated high school
started working with you you started teaching me right and teaching me the way that Jake says getting all Angry go
do this you messed it up and then get all angry right yeah 100% so that it's
it's different and it does you know what I will have to say that there are different styles of learning and teaching right some people do react to
that some people don't and most the people who don't are under
are 30 and under right now because they've been so coddled that they don't
understand what it's like to nobody talks to them like that anymore they don't even talk like that
in school teachers can't your parents can't right I mean you can't even say you can't words that I grew up saying in
a household U to my I mean I say it to my family but words he grew up saying
normal conversation can't even say it anymore without being uh Pol Politically
Incorrect or whatever you want to call it so but what I did was I took the information you gave me I went and tried
it maybe I did it like you maybe I was like this ain't working for me let me figure out a different way but I didn't
just give up or not expand on that I took that knowledge that you gave me went and did a little bit more expanded
that it better and then for you yeah and then now I'm able to go to that next
person and teach them and that's the the constant evolution of of how training
should be right um I've gone through trainings where they were like how did you explain
that because and then I explained it to them and they were like I've never thought to explain it like that before
but that's how I'm going to teach it from now on and that's how it should be it's not
you didn't teach me how to do this that's that excuse only goes so far it's you showed me how to do this and then I
tried it I didn't like it so I expanded on it and learned myself and that's what
the young people are are kind of missing it's not just all come to work do your
job leave go home because just think about it in terms of any other industry
you you got to do training you gotta the teachers that you know we have half days
once a month so the teachers can go through training and just to clarify too and this came up in conversation the
other day Corporate America is different than construction America everyone Corporate
America is they they build that that that onboarding system in there right
like Corporate America usually has a facility big enough to have a conference room full of people being trained all
day every day learning the basics construction America doesn't really have
that at their disposal they they got to go out and they gotta sustain and make money they don't have hundreds of people
already out there making uh money to sustain you know 50 people who are learning for the next two years that
just want to make that clear that there is there is a black and white difference from
construction America to Corporate America um the Hands-On portion you got to get out and do it
you can't someone who went to college for engineering cannot go and do the install
if they're out there doing the architectural on a drawing and they're dragging and dropping and
like that is that is not going out and learning how to do the handson and you
can't you can only read a book so many times before you have to put your hands on it to make sense um and you know
sucks to say but I would say 80% of what we've learned is by putting our hands on it um the the other 20% is just
information that doesn't make any sense until you're ripping it apart tearing it apart cutting it putting it together um
I just want to like make sure everyone knows that there is a separation there um and and I think maybe that's what it
is too is Corporate America built up so so so good of reputation as a uh the
easy button click the easy button that that's what the younger Generations uh kind of expect fact right like I'm going
to put six months in and in six months I should know how to do exactly what these guys know how to do and that's that's
not it that's not that's not the case well that and uh a lot of these
factories are based on time in I think like they have their their set schedule
you're here for this amount of time you get a raise you're here for this amount of time you get a raise and that they
have that that mindset as well yeah that's like a 1% 2% not even yeah not even like I mean I
remember Mom working in the factories um and she she came home one day and she
was like I quit my job I was like what they gave me a a I had my review yeah I
had my review they're like you're you're doing great here's a 10-cent rise she said I
quit 10 cents like what does that do you get next it well I guess four $ four a
week like come on makes no sense in construction you do have you do have
opportunities to you might have a small jump in Pay
small jump in pay and then a substantial jump and then you might be there for a little bit right but the the the
longterm um the long-term value in Pay doesn't come from every getting a raise every
quarter every six months every year and a substan raise it comes from I'm doing great work they're keeping me busy while
other people are staying home um and if everyone is busy and you are not
then must be something wrong there and it does suck like in the bid
Market a lot of people stay busy because they just throw low numbers out and get the jobs and that's what people want to
hire um but we try not to to be that that
company yeah we we try not to be low bid and I'll be honest with people
at the at the GetGo it's like I'm probably not going to be low bid so
and I mean we've gotten a few projects that we weren't low Bid And I mean it's been great
but it's it's the whole
industry looking at looking at the new people that are coming in what us as the
the old guys and the crazy thing is is I call us the old guys and then we go to the conventions and they they call us
the young guys and it's like
um and we say the same thing about them like honestly they want to see all these
changes in the in the industry but it's like they don't want to change the way
that they're doing things and then we look at us and it's like we want things to change the way
change the in the industry and it's like what do we have to do in order to change ourselves in order to accommodate them
but not actually we have someone here hey she's weigh in the background our
niece she she doesn't like to be on video she don't have to be on video but I want to ask you a question since you're here you're young you're a kid how old
are you 17 17 dang get old you want to come on camera what what do I leave like
five minut no that's fine you can leave in two minutes I just have a simple question
what you're young going in you're still in high school right now you're a senior when you get out of high school if you
weren't looking at higher education would you even be attracted to
the trades and if not why and if so why the
trades as in foring construction just construction it doesn't have to be thoring just like does any of that even
interest you and it's okay to say no because if it's if it's us know it's not something
I've ever thought about okay and why is that I always knew that I wanted to um attend that higher
education okay so the trade is just something that doesn't interest you from
from just being interested in learning how to build something for the most no not
really okay and what is interest interesting to you and maybe some of the
people you go to school with like what does what does everyone talk about like when they when I grow up and I'm 21
years old and I'm a full-grown adult and I know everything what what are they gonna do what what is everybody talking
about nowadays in school in high school yeah you don't really hear about when I grow up or when I'm 21 it's when I go to
college and how much fun I'm gonna have how how much parties I'm gonna go to so that's
so you heard here first that is a big
problem um and that all students right because I know the teachers ain't talking about that oh no right so that's
the student so that's all on perspective and so so what is leading that perspective and who whatever is leading
that perspective is also creating the expectations so
it's it's we're live the the times have changed right so you look at it you
gotta get out you got back people are staying their parents longer and longer
these days it's not you're 18 get out go find something else I told my kids that
the other day I said man soon as you guys turn 18 guess what you're out of here they're like what so
the we're essentially creating a a generation of people that think
that they can just Coast on their in their parents basement or
whatever and don't have to worry about their own
thing this is all this is all like our our thoughts guys don't hold us
to it uh or don't think that that's what Society is thinking or how every person
who is old like the anal thinks that that just makes it so you know that puts into perspective why they come in
thinking that things are just going to be handed to them because they've been having things handed to them their entire lives right the participation
Trophies the oh yeah everything like that it's um I showed up pay me yep
and the horrible thing is is that there are jobs out there that it's like you work today get paid today I've gone
through uh some fast food drive-thru that's like apply work today get paid
today so they work their shift they get paid that day
that's that's crazy to me I don't know how you can sustain long-term employees like that especially
if they have and and me I'm always going to revert to how I grew up especially if they have habits um that could prohibit them from
showing up to work the next day but you made me think about something too right everything was handing them I wonder
like if we were to compare a kid let we just take an age like an age of
transition right so let's say a 12y old kid from 50 years ago a
12y old kid you know every do increments of 10 years um starting 50 years ago till till
now what was the responsibility of a 12-year-old kid or expectations versus now and I think that that would kind of
shed the light onto why so may maybe it's not even the generation yes and no
because it's all depends on on how you grew up right because right we grew up
we grew up with raising our kids and then in sports right and we we
constantly put push Sports because kids have to learn how to be coachable you can't just show up and be
like all right I deserve this it's show up let I'm gonna prove to you I'm worth something this is what I want to do like
my son I want to pitch what does he do he works really hard on perfecting that
crap to be to be that in that spot so that that's what we teach right and then
at the same time it's you know Dad I really want to do this
and nine years old go ask your coach I'm not going to do that for you oh dude yeah and and that's where
um like I was just I was just listening to Simon synic right and I and I'll
bring we bring him up a lot too and he says that the the younger generation are
the people that don't like to to ask for things they just show up you're not giving me what I want I'm leaving it's
never I'm going to come in and I'm going to talk to you hey this is what's going on I have this going on at home can you
guys do something for me or can you help me out I think I need just ask for something anything and
they don't like to ask for raises it's I've been here for 30 days they didn't give me a raise I'm leaving and that
that's the mindset that the generation has right now and it's that's not coming from us that's coming from someone that
actually has to deal with this and deal deal with these people on daily basis that's the mindset that they
had right and if you think about it too like the people who like just for us
right um even the most recent person who left there was Zero communication as to
likes and dislikes and we come here this this is this was taped to the
door yeah I quit which is fine at least you left that a lot of people don't do
that yeah they just St showing up so I I guess you could look at that but I have never quit a job or left a job without
having a conversation with the person that was in charge or the person above them I've
never and and I have to go back right like I gotta go back to when I was younger but even when I was in construction I've never just
like I quit it's hey um you got a minute to talk and talk things
through and I've always done that I don't I've never I don't know any other way
like I I feel like no matter how upset I am at a situation or or if I felt like I
was being taken advantage of I still feel like it's worth a conversation because it's a learning experience for
both sides right I get practiced at expressing myself they get practiced at being uh better or seeing some cues that
could lead to something else and and that's that that can benefit both sides
right because everything is learning opportunity yeah
always no idea sorry you have to ignore that phone for a
second spam anyway they're calling about Daniel's extended vehicle
warranty he didn't get those calls anymore is that even the thing anymore but I think um
so to kind of condense everything that because we we get off on tangents a lot
right so that just
so the workers and the trades have changed um looking back on on how we
started it I came it was rough he was rough on me but that pushed me to not
only not want want to mess up right it's like I don't want to mess this up but I'm going to do things on my own so that
way I can learn how to not mess it up on my own I'm not just going to be like well I don't know how to do that don't
send me over here um which kind of was
like I'm Gonna Keep On Learning in order to not work under him anymore so I don't have to keep on getting yelled at yeah
and you know what if that works for people then that works that's awesome like it to each their own but just know
that someone who is gets upset when you don't do something the right way is not they're not getting upset because you
you did it wrong you know they just hold you to a higher standard than you are currently holding
yourself that's all and um if I didn't if I didn't love my
brother I wouldn't have been like that right but I knew that he could do it like dude you can do this dude stop and
it it it was always the the simple things that everybody it's always the simple things
that everyone makes mistakes on because they overthink it um so I guess uh don't
overthink a a career in the trades because it could it could be well worth
it there was a um I saw a video he's talking about Simon syic I think I saw
it's a Tik Tok or something like that they did actually did a a metric of of they used a plumber versus a a doctor and at the
same age out of school someone who became a plumber was in a better better Financial
um situation at at like the 20 year mark than a doctor was granted depends on
what kind of doctor how long you went to school like how long you special right focus on specialty and you you have to
be in the right company with the um opportunity for growth in order to to
get there right but you also have to put in the work right and that you know when going back to when we started again we
started on 1099 we didn't know know the difference right we were
the internet was still fairly new they still called it the web they even called
that anymore the worldwide web you know it was it was still Fair fairly new and
you don't we didn't just hop on Google and search up anything we wanted to we
didn't have uh chat gbt to do everything for us but you know we we started on in
1099 and then it wasn't until you go to fire your taxes and it's like what do you mean I owe
money and and the these these kids know better these days
a majority of them do I mean there's don't get me wrong there's still plenty of people out there that are that
probably don't use technology right and I try to use it as little as possible
possible yeah right but it's like you know that kind of stuff
happened and then you look at today when I don't want to say you know
schools don't educate you on that kind of stuff but that that falls more on like the parenting where it's like they
they always tell you to get a good job and all this stuff right but it's like they're looking for a long-term
career they're not you can look at it as a job
or you can look at it as a career you can take it as far as you want to right you look at it as a job that's all it's
ever going to be if you look at it as a career that's where your mind keeps on
flowing what do I have to learn in order to progress and since they're looking for a
career as an industry we have to start looking at what kind of packages we can
offer in order to get these younger kids in like I said you know on a previous podcast we've had people come through
here that they're like I would have never came to work for you guys if you didn't offer a W2 and if you if you
don't offer Health Care like the these are things that you have to start thinking about the health
care is huge because I mean there's nowhere there's
nowhere around it it's a monopoly well it's there's nowhere around it like we
are hard on our bodies when we're installing right we hurt all the time and not only that talking about
sustaining your own and then growing a family you want to have that there for your family as well um so we have to
start realizing that these kids want all this stuff and put these systems in
place uh not only do we have to work on you know the insulation and the training
and all that it's all the back office work that we have to to realize that not a lot of people work on
and it's uh you know retirement health care just look at workers comp when if
you get hurt on a job site and you're working for a 1099 for someone you think that they have workers comp they're just
it it just doesn't work like that yeah they have writers but those writers are
you're usually excluded from those anyway they're just they're just a piece of paper that you pay $1,000 for for no
reason so it's it's there's a lot of things that go into these new people
that are coming into the industry and how this new generation
thinks Beyond just being on their knees it's yeah they can come in and they'll
show up every day but it's on us to to tell them you know like I can only get you so much
information you actually have to want to learn more and if you don't want to learn more then you're in a job but then
you keep on asking me for a raise but you're not showing me any progression you you you want the benefits of a
career but only putting forth the effort of a job
that's that's the first time I've ever said it like that and
wow it's a really it's a really odd way to look at having a career or a job this
sucks too like even my jobs when I had a job fast food
restaurants I still gave 110% I still tried to learn everything I didn't like
having to depend on people to do certain things I'd just rather like just get it done instead of
waiting but I think we're almost at at our hour anyway I didn't even think we g go that long without Paul no so you know
the kids are looking at it that way and us as the people that have been in in
the industry for a while we need need to look at it as we can say that you
know we're not we're not huge corporations but we kind of have to start thinking like a huge corporation
when it comes to down down to just even the installation we have to think of um
what kind of training programs can we put forth and and stuff like that and
it's not necessarily all on you right there's training entities out there um CFI has you know their
their two we courses that are happening you know we were talking about that last week one's over there um at Dwayne's
place in witch Kansas and then we have one coming over here to degraph
Interiors in in Jennison so it's like um and it's the FCF is putting the bill for
these so why not jump on board right it's like if you know someone that wants to get in the industry this is talk to
Carlos you know get your feet wet with this get with the FCF get the scholarship take these
classes you know these trainings um it's not on it's not all on us to to come up
with everything but it is on us to point people in the direction where they need to go um we
just sent baby sister to uh Nora to get trained and you know that's a really
particular product so it it's really beneficial to go through that
class but that's something that we seen that we needed to do so we send them
we're talking about we just H at the the meeting that I had yesterday um right
before you walked in with the guys it's like I need to get you guys into some some training and it's just it sucks
because it doesn't fall where we need it to sometimes but we're we're about at
that point where we got to start making the time to do it and that's one thing that we have to look at industrywide as
well it's it's never a good time when is a good time to have a kid it's never a good time to have a kid it's never a
good time to just to go to a training it's never a good time to go to a trade show but it's these things that you have
to do in order to to progress your guys or ladies right because there's
your career I'm talking about the the people that work for you yeah the crews Oh I thought you said career I I just
sound like I have an accent but it's like let's start expanding everything
let's know that the people that are coming in aren't built from the same cloth that we were and there's things
that you kind of have to baby step around and get used to and we're having to do it constantly it's a constant
Evolution it's not you can't just be setting your ways and no this is the way
that everything's going because once you're in that that mindset that's why a lot of the guys are working by
themselves because they're not willing to change yeah and that's one one
constant that we talk about all the time is that the flooring IND industry is
constantly changing and that's the evolution of it the products are changing and and and you have to look at
it that way as a business as well it's a constant Evolution like you can have your don't get me wrong you want to have
your your your solid core right you want to have your your mission your your values you know write all that down and
then expand on that but know that things change and that the
people that are coming in the industry right now are different than when you came
into the industry and realiz and a lot of what we do like we talk to Adena when
she was just in here a few minutes ago and you know you asked her some questions and think back to when you were that age
age which was different because we weren't in the same position as she is but you know her friends are what
college are are we going to go to so we can go party I have plenty of friends
that went to college and partied and I have friends right now that are
going through AA because they never sto partying so it's creatures of habit so and and
that's where if you in if you instill in your nephews
nieces your children that life is going to be on Easy Street and you just say
hey just go and ask for this instead of go and prove you're worth this and I
think that that's where a lot of uh a lot of the issues come from for for
the trades nobody wants to prove they're worth and like we said say every single time communication is everything take
talk talk to your kids talk to the the younger people and ask them like you
don't know if you don't ask and that's what we constantly do you know we ask her we ask some of the the younger
people that come through here and we're we're grateful that some of them just tell us you know I wouldn't work here if
you guys didn't have these benefits if we weren't W2
um just start asking and and change your your mindset we're
trying to change ours meet us in the middle and that way uh we can keep on
growing this industry and get these uh younger people in the door and that way when they're our age
they'll be going through the same struggles just a different generation it's I mean you you look at it like that
right it's like every generation complains about the generation that comes after that them they're lazy they
don't like to do this they don't like to do that but that it's that constant
Evolution Jake says Where can he get some pf swag I think you need Jake you need to just come visit us
bro te text one of us and when you got some free time come over to the office
and say what's up and just so you guys know like Jake and I go wait way back before flooring
days well he said that you were at his house when you found out that uh you were starting your flooring career said
you got the I got the what when you got the call that was that was like 50 years ago
that was a long time ago but uh we're about at the hour guys
we're going to wrap up change your mindset any young folks out there want to add to this please comment um you
know like like us subscribe we got the the Huddle podcast uh Facebook page now
um um subscribe to to the podcast on Apple
Spotify YouTube YouTube where wherever we're at and just
look us up find us um right there we got the QR codes right on the screen if you
the on your phone you can actually take a screenshot and if you go to on the iPhone you can anyways if you go to your
photos on the QR code if you long press on it it'll take you right to the site so it's like I now years old I learned
that so give us a like subscribe and I
appreciate everyone you know for chiming in today this is what this podcast is really meant for it's we want the
interaction because the more people that we get to interact with us the better we can understand how we need to change as
well because we don't do everything right it's a constant Evolution teach us something that's that's what we need
we're we're here to to teach you what we've already been through through but we want to know things as well
so um yep yep go to cfi's website and
see what trainings they got go to nct's website fcca see what trainings they got
but the big one right now is the the scholarships that the FCF is giving for
100% paid training you got someone new this is what you guys want to do
right now go to cfi's website see what events that that are close to you and
get get your guys signed up sign up yourself and then I believe that uh go
Carrera is doing the goera is doing the Sim scholarship so um I didn't link it
in here but but if you go to the podcast on the
one of the like Spotify or apple I believe I have a link in there and and follow the Huddle on on Facebook too if
you guys are um have a chance go ahead and click on it I believe I shared the live feed from from uh the Huddle so
just go and click on that and follow that as well so Jake says this is his uh first one he wants to be part of more
we we do this Tuesdays at 4M
Eastern Paul usually says it in central time because he's in central but we're Eastern so 4 pm Tuesdays well uh catch
you guys on the next one appreciate you and take it easy have a one thanks
everyone
The Huddle - Episode 73 - Charging What You're Worth
This week the guys discuss how to charge what you're worth, how to measure your "worth", and how to increase it to make more money.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up Floren family welcome to the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining Ford
progress in your flooring career with me as always Mr Daniel and
Jose Gonzalez have preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan how's it going today fellas going good man we are
going good little beat up but yeah I last week we were talking about a job where it was a planned burnout and we
worked we started the project on Friday and worked every day and then we're actually
finishing it up today so we're a day ahead of schedule which worked out
because we got another thing small thing tomorrow another plan to
burnout yeah but the the good thing is then everyone gets you know four days
off yeah actually had to say say no to uh Friday
but this it's okay sometimes you got to say no
yes well gentlemen it's great to have you on and and uh out of the gate here I
want to wish you guys a Happy Thanksgiving I hope you guys get to spend some time with family and and
that's to everybody in the audience as well like I hope you get to spend some time with the people that you really
care about and why we do all this and work so hard um you know it's uh just a
few days off but man if you take advantage of them build that family unit
up we were um our epoxy partner was just in here he used one of our demo machines
for a project today and he came in he's like man he added some stuff today and now I'm gonna have to go in on Thursday
because he has be open Friday morning and it's actually perfect right because he was like do I do I charge them extra
for that and we're like yeah man like you need to that's a holiday way extra
that's a great story that's a great story to kick off talking numbers and
charging what you're worth which is today's topic we had a similar topic way
back in episode like 12 or 15 or something like
that um and these are these are always so
such a it's kind of a nuance subject uh I
think kicking it off you got to understand what's valuable to the consumer and to the stores I mean for
you to charge what you're worth not everybody's worth the same
right right that's a hard one right because where do you get the metric
besides yourself right what what it is is well a Shameless plug for go Carrera
is a higher hammer rating thank you for the setup a higher Hammer rating is your
clear indication that like I'm better trained if you have a high Kudos score and you've actually done work across a
network uh a high Kudo score and a high Hammer rating right there you have clear
identifiable metrics that you can say I am one of the best here's my proof this is why I'm charging more uh if you don't
choose to use me I understand but I about 70% of my clients give me uh Kudos
and most of my Kudos are um at this in this uh Arena maybe it's professionalism
and exceptional quality uh just as a refresher we track five metrics
professionalism attitude punctuality dependability and exceptional quality
but that is the industry's only real metric that you can do that because you
got well I'm certified so am I well I'm R1 well I'm R2 well I'm C3 and I'm or C2
I'm master and it's like okay well when does it matter and when does it I I mean it just and no no knock to any of the
the um training entities that that could go all the way through well I'm CTI well
I'm act and you know or I'm uh ceramictile uh uh you know I got mine
online of course no one would say that but they just say ceramictile distribution whatever I forget the uh
the gentleman uh Donato's uh company that where you can get a certification online and he has great great great
education on there but it is online and it's simply not as valuable uh as as uh
I think understandably not as valuable as a in-person Hands-On tested P fail
kind of situation a couple of quick notes uh while I have it on my uh head
here um CFI is doing a two-week course here in Witchita introduction course
into um into uh flooring the twoe course is a $2500
value and it's free 100% free wow so if you are a new uh person the only
requirement is that you're not you know you if you go and you're very experienced you're not going to find
Value in the course so you might as well not waste the two weeks but if you're new we have couple of guys that we're going to be hiring I'm hoping I'm trying
to get this course filled because I would love for it to stay free uh because I am I would love to use it as
our hiring tool just saying straight up you go to this course you complete it
we'll we'll loan you the two we two weeks worth of pay at six months of employment that loan is Forgiven and we
have a uh somebody who's not completely green so it is at uh pu's uh training
facility here in Witchita it's a two-e course it's December 4th through the 15th I
believe yes and the it kind of came about quick I wish there was a little
bit more time um the dates last week were not perfectly set so
um I was not 100% on whether or not I couldn't really
I could bring it up but I couldn't give dates last week so I mean um but if you are anywhere close to witch anywhere
close and and I can confirm that it's worth to 2500 bucks their five-week cours is almost it's like five or
$6,000 and it's a similar course this is just condensed down into two weeks so
it's a very valuable course thank you to the to the uh people that are sponsoring
that which is the fcef and the wfca people and the the fact is is that I'm going to
see if I can pull up the um um the website so I can get well I don't
know if it's made it to their website um I had the let me see where that is at
and I will share it but there is a um uh flyer that i' would like to share
and I can maybe leave that up for a moment so people can use the the
uh what is that called um QR code QR code thank you I'm looking and trying to
think at the same time and you know guys like me that's like come on man so okay
I'm gonna pull the QR code just to quickly uh let you know the location is
pro flooring 723 East Skinner wit talk Kansas so it's December 4th through the
15th Monday through Friday 8:30 a.m. through 4:00 p.m. it's a completely free
course the CFI two-e residential carpet course and they will put a a s a uh uh I
think they would be they're completely open I should say to putting a little more uh commercial oriented things if
they have enough commercial guys I know we're sending a few commercial guys uh and so
so there there will be that aspect I'm looking at um what you were talking
about I see the witch one and then in February there's actually one in Jenison Michigan which is not far away from us
it's probably only like what 10 minutes 15 minutes away well there you go let's
pack these courses um let me see here I'm going to put this
up so that um it can be sh there we go I am just going to share
my screen for a moment oh uh host go Carrera please uh
enable me as a uh to uh share for a moment if
possible but anyway so pack that course it's here in witchta like uh Daniel said
there's one coming up in uh Michigan very close to where they're located so
you know getting through cor and and um uh if you're brand new um some of the
guys coming out going to the course here are in completely different fields and want to give floring a try and I'm like
there you go here's a like two two two weeks will at least give you a good
taste of whether or not you want to do this and uh if you complete it and you
want to continue we will hire you and we will pay you for your two weeks that's
pretty that's pretty awesome uh what just a I think it's residential carpet
it is residential carpet with uh but there there will be you know just talk to the trainer they they'll put some
commercial uh an a commercial aspect to it if they have enough commercial oriented people um at least uh I believe
that's true the the other thing is you're not I think they're going to
do kind of an overview of of just floring in general a lot of these things like floor prep and stuff that they hit
you're not going to become a pro in two weeks but what you are going to do is understand what a kicker looks like
understand how carpet is installed understand ma some about how it's made
and just understand jobsite setups and things of this nature so when you do get paired with a journeyman installer or a
mechanic or a whatever you uh however they're referred to in your area around
here we call them mechanics uh uh but um when you are paired up with the mechanic
at least when they say hey go grab my out of the truck you know what to go
look for uh and you don't get tricked into grabbing a tile stretcher or something like this guy uh because uh
you know that that kind of thing happens V vinyl Bas stretcher in the purple unicorn box
yeah that's a legit thing so here is here's the um
flyer and um the QR code let's see if we
can bring the QR code bigger so if you uh I hope that works doing it this way
if you're on and you want to uh pop that QR code and register that is um how you
will get the course for free very valuable course of course guys I I can't
um did that work uh Jose did okay perfect there you go so I'm Gonna Leave
This up for a minute while we talk uh through through some of this stuff also I want to remind everybody
that we are doing the Sim scholarship for go career's uh sponsoring another
Sim uh scholarship this year and the um
details of that are going to is on our social media it will continue to be on the social media I believe um Ashlin if
you could send me a chat on the information uh when we close that I
believe it's January um I forget the day I'll tell
you here in a moment as soon as I get my brain to tell me okay application is open until December 18th so you got
about a month here to apply and Ashlin where do we uh send people to uh apply
we will be announcing the winner on our January 9th huddle so if you're watching this or you watch it on YouTube later
make sure you're on the January 9th huddle so with that being said uh I'll share
other details throughout the podcast here um there's a link on our Instagram
page I believe you guys if you could share that link on your page that would be awesome and we're also going to share
it on all of the Huddle uh socials and show notes so it should also be in the
description if you're watching this in YouTube uh it's probably down in the description doing a good job on blasting
it out too I think I've already gotten like two or three emails saying you know this is what's
going on make sure you apply yeah that's awesome so look a lot of the installers
out there I've said this before this is a great course for you um it's it would
be free course and it's like uh 15,600 bucks uh to do so I believe maybe
even a little bit more and um so it's it's an awesome awesome course it can
benefit you greatly and you may not be on the email drip from the FC if you're not get involved here at the Huddle go
through the you know our our Link in our descriptions it'll be on our all of the socials and uh like I said the show
notes so that being said what are we talking about when we
say uh you know you're worth Char charge what you're worth and and I posed the
question that I think that um you got to understand first what is what what is
what is it that the consumer and that the stores you may work with value I would I mentioned the five that
that we see valuable at go Carrera and I see super valuable at the flooring company that I own which is
professionalism attitude punctuality dependability and exceptional quality
now these are all skills being on time being where you say you're going to be
when you say you're going to be there being a professional these all take skills I was not very polished when I
was 20 I was thinking the same thing like like man yeah these are skills that you learn
over time uh whether it's expanding your venacular your your your verbage
um I love that word actually vacular uh whether it's whether it's
just presenting yourself in a more professional manner uh even when we are dressed in our our installation gear we
can be professional I have plenty of examples of that these guys have plenty
of examples of installers Who present themselves professionally um not just
appearance-wise that's part of it you know look like you took a shower and you did your hair uh and then SM like it too
smell like it too and smell like it too uh but also it's it's how you interact
with the with your customer with your and sometimes it's your customer's customer so your store's customer so if
you're at someone's house and you're doing a job for a retailer understanding how to interact with a
homeowner is a skill set that you need to learn that is valuable to
companies I can tell you one of the highest paying jobs in floring uh albeit
not one that I enjoyed I'm just telling you from a a a overarching comment here
is residential replacement you got to move furniture well you get paid to move it at good stores you're going to get
paid well to move the furniture okay work for good stores uh but you're
going to get paid well to to move furniture the store if you're a professional with them they're likely
going to have your back if you get one of them homeowners that say he scratched
my bed post and the scratch is 15 years old you know like that kind of stuff um
that happens in the retail residential replacement but it it's also one of the paid per unit or per yard per square
foot um that's out there so understand who you're working for and
what they see valuable in you I mean what do you guys see that's most valuable in uh in an installer crew
well I'm gonna have to go back to like the evolution of of how we became who we
are and how it happened is through Tri and error right like learning from everyone else's mistakes now now granted
I didn't have the luxury of experiencing a whole lot of uh residential um in the
beginning uh right because only one of the gentlemen did residential other one was just straight commercial but
it it was a matter of slowly Reinventing myself as I got older and progressed and
realizing you you need you need to be relatable to everyone to to create value
um from a visual perspective the the education professionalism
professionalism yeah 100% I went from cut off uh sleeves and jeans with holes
and that hung over my shoes uh no belt I know I always wore belt but to uh
wearing presentable jeans and sleeves all the time and you know and it it
wasn't well part of this I I hate to interrupt you but part of this is you didn't neither none of us probably got
the best start what we're trying to change in this industry is creating companies where uh the installation is
valued and that you give your guys the tools to be able to do this like we give a you know all of our guys get free
shirts anytime they want them they just grab them out of the Supply Closet grab them anytime keep your stuff looking
good do you know presentable wise uh talking to them about how to interact
with the subcon or with the superintendent on projects and working with other trades uh those are all skill
sets if if we as Co today's companies how are you bringing along the people
like what do you see valuable and then how are you bringing them along your and
mine and uh probably even Daniel's um initial um entrance and experience in
this industry probably wasn't a a great measuring stick if I'm
guessing right through our conversations little rough neish right like very very uh Rough Around the Edges
there but I think the when we started creating the value it just came from
being put in situations where we had to make a decision to go left or go right and then it started making us realize
that we had to create um a level of profession ISM that was Universal not
towards commercial towards residential towards one demographic or the other it was more of a universal thing and that's
where uh the visual value started coming in the behind the scenes value started getting created when we experienc
failures and started questioning what we're doing and why we're doing it and
and how come we're doing it in a manner that someone who doesn't install is
telling us to do it um you know and that's where the behind the scenes education portion came from and we
didn't understand the whole charge what you're worth at the beginning we were just trying to get our foot in the door
and that's what I dislike about the groups and there's you know constantly
people in there talking about you know what what do you guys charge for this what do you charge for that and then
instead of just giving them a straight answer everyone's like you don't know what to charge yeah if you don't know
what to charge don't do it like everyone started from somewhere guys like yeah and and that's crappy to say anyway I
mean at the end of the day you you you I hope we're starting to influence
installers to consider your cost we went over this a on a few podcasts consider
what your costs are to do a job and then what you need to bring home what you desire I should say to bring home and
consider taxes and then charge accordingly based off of your uh your
skill now what I'm saying you may you may not be that fast so you feel like
you have to charge more but are if your quality is there and your your skill sets there um maybe you can the point is
is like everybody should charge what they think is uh appropriate for
themselves and uh so just building on that it sounds like you know when
somebody says how much should I charge or what do you charge for this that's hard it's a hard question to answer uh I
don't think they should answer it in that manner but it's certainly hard to say well I charge uh you know you should
charge $7 a square foot well you got another guy on there I like the if if an
answer was I've I'm I'm C to preface this I'm certified in ceramic toich
issues uh through ctef um and I've been installing I'm a
journeyman installer out of this place and I've been doing it for 20 years and I charge $12 a square foot at least you
have some context to how much you're charging and why really good way to approach that yeah because you you have
to look at someone's their accolades yeah because like the what we charge for sheet vinyl
is gonna be way different than what someone else charges because we've done it to the point where we've mastered it
and can I get things done a lot faster yeah but it took me you know 20 years to get to that point so yeah I mean so
maybe I don't get it done faster maybe it takes me a little longer but it's still going to look way better and I know it's going to be done right
and that that's what I'm charging for I'm not charging because someone told me hey we're paying $9 a yard for sheet
vinyl because we've been told that before and it's like sorry about your
bad luck you can go find someone else that'll do it for that yeah we're paying $9 a yard well I'm charging 18 or I'm
charging 33 or whatever there was it's job specific right and honestly there
was one of the companies around here they were like we got this sheep Vino we need it done uh they were like send us
the information they came back at like I think it was $8 a yard and this was this was like five six
years ago probably and that's exactly what we told him we said we don't we're not going to touch it for less than
18 yeah and yeah that's that's to specific to our area right like every
region is slightly different based off of cost of living so everyone in the hes don't take that with a if if it's uh
that's the upper or lower range of what you guys are getting paid and the reason why I'm saying this is because I know
what it's worth right I know it's also Supply demand driven like if there's if
you're in an area that has 15 which I I I'd love to know where this area is if
it exists but like 15 or 20 like top level in uh sheet viny installers then
you know the price might be a little bit cheaper but that's a supply demand metric that will vary um you know in our
area it pays it pays between you know probably 15 to 18 and sometimes a little
bit more uh not much I I don't recall in recent time that it's been less but we
also pay the lineal foot on Cove and the per a lot of times if there's too many
boots then we'll pay per boot that kind of thing um and per lineal foot on heat
welding and all this so really what it boils down to is knowing what your worth
is I think that's the key you know yes and it's and um I think I put on there
is um how do it how do it assess one's uh individual's value right like your value
where you where you want to be at where do you have to be at you know where when how much money is your daily expenses
and your daily operating cost um where does that put you in order for you to be in the green because that's you want to
be in the green um and you have to assess that and a lot of a lot of
the the square footage and aage we've come up with is based off of where we
got to be in the green create an hourly rate that equates that per day divide it
into the square footage square yardage find a good median average it out and then try to use that as your control and
go up and down from there um yeah and if you're just like if you're younger in in a given discipline or or in the trade
you may have to take some work to prove yourself but that's just business like I had to take work you know early on maybe
a little cheaper than I wanted to you don't want to lose money ever but still
maybe not make what I wanted but what I needed and do doing that so that I could
prove myself that I could prove that I I do great work again I if if you're doing
work over go carera you walk into a shop with that proof If you have done work
across the network and gotten some Kudos and gotten this stuff and uh by the way for everybody we're getting ready
release a profile upgrade that's going to really um like really increase the
value of your profile it's going to look incredible um and companies will really
get that Insight that they th they they really starve for so but that
aside point is if you are a little uh newer to the um installation industry or
maybe you're trying your hand at sheet vinyl and you you've been a carpet installer and you went through some courses and now you want to start doing
sheet vinyl because your area is paying well you may have to take on some work
at a little less rate to prove yourself but hey at the end of the day once you've done that you get in the position
like you guys are where hey man quality first I assume that that was always your
first thing was quality and then you got speed later is that right Daniel is that kind of how you approached it it and
it's we don't even call it speed right it's efficiency it's getting more efficient at it so with
efficiency comes the speed so we're not we don't go and and be like yeah we're the fastest no we're the most efficient
yeah and and that efficiency long term uh is the long-term value that that we offer that separates us right like
someone can be really fast and get the room done really fast but every time you got to go visit that project to fix a
punch list every time you got to go back to fix Bas that's curling off to fix flash go that's bubbling up to fix a
seam right you now now you're you're you're taking time out of your day and you're going back where do you cost go
up yeah cost go up so we try to incorporate all of our knowledge and our
experiences that so we don't have you have to take it you that that one project at a time because if this
project goes a certain way then you look at the numbers and you're like man like we got to up it like there is no
question about it because uh Paul from the UK is he says he's doing some
Herring bone uh carine product and since he's from
the UK he says he's getting 10 pounds a meter which I don't know what the
anybody got a a calculator right but at some point you have to look at
your your clients too right like if you're working for a store sometimes Maybe that's not the
right store for you and you have to start looking somewhere else I mean there's been plenty of times
where where we did that and it's like sometimes you have to fire your clients
because it's just not worth it they they don't have the same values as you if
you're you're you know pushing out all this exceptional quality work and they're just not paying you for it even
you know you time and time again conversation um the yeah if you can't
lead them to water yeah um you know the the other the other guys the other you
know stores that we worked for we talked to them about it and they were like you know what you're right it it has been a
while and it and they'll apologize you know what I'm sorry like time gets away from me I don't realize it and I've been
going in at the same numbers so let let us know where we need to be so that way we when we're bidding it's a it's a
constant Evolution too like you raise it a quarter and then once you get that job then the next project you raise it
another quarter and it's constantly you know little bit at a time baby steps right I like uh from the
office Kevin once said many small time make big time and
it's say that about everything I do want to go back uh to something you had
mentioned about the we were talking about how to equate the the rates and you mentioned about doing a project
sometimes you got to get your foot in the door do a project um if if I told you that my long-term
goal and on a couple projects was to create value um like we talk like dude
that's not even nowhere near enough money for this project they had three people say they can't do it that is
impossible it would look really good on our resume and some of those are investments
right like some of those projects we we took were Investments because we knew that afterwards it would create more
value right is something that we can say hey this is what we're capable of doing and it it gave us more value too so some
of those jobs you guys out there like you gota look at it like that too like yeah well make big money on this but
what can it do for me long term have you guys ever had somebody say well it only
took you three days to do that I mean yep I should get a discount or something
or whatever and I'm like we bought our machine our demo machine what I mean because I'm more efficient and better
and faster than you expected you want pay me less because I'm better that makes no sense as soon as we our demo
machine that's what happened and I'm not gonna lie dude I steamed up right away I
mean I was upset but I was I was able to maintain my composure and uh I was
like well the best comeback is always you know you're not paying for the job
you're not paying me to just lay sheep on you're paying me for the 10 to 15 years that it took for me to learn and
be as good and as efficient and as quality as I am you're not paying for
today you're paying for the 15 years it took me to get as good as I am today and
that is there's a lot of Truth to that because they can for sure go hire anyone off the street to go do that and they
can mess it up real quick especially it doesn't what type of flooring but especially sheet vinyl yeah
yeah I've I've had that problem I think I shared the podcast one other time and it hurts so bad I'm not going to share
it again yeah that's um so I mean so identifying the value
like the value prop and what what people are Desiring the biggest thing is actually keeping track of your projects
and knowing exactly what you're making right because you can you can say yeah I made this much on
this project but what's your profitability on that like we it it
doesn't matter if if you made this much and then you're at a break even point
that that dollar amount is irrelevant how much did you actually make on it because we're we're all in business to
make money right like not for practice we're we're there to to have money in the bank because we all know that any
construction that you're in is going to have a slow time and you have to plan for that so make sure you have that
profit everyone has overhead whether you think you do or not your vehicle is a
part of your overhead fuel maintenance your your house that
you use as your office like all that stuff matters and you know I I think that
um also remembering and and I keep harping on what people value because you
know I've I've had really really good installers uh that I've worked with and
partnered with on projects that have a shitty attitude and are hard to deal with and I've I've quit using them I
mean if you're going to make my life so hard and and throw up these these
problems all the time without any solutions um that gets exhausting and
your quality can be secondary at that point so quality is probably if I had to
say what's most important it's always quality but outside that your attitude and how you deal with people and
realizing we're all humans just trying to get a job done and we all have these
uh external pressures on us to get a job done you know quicker quicker quicker um
and unfortunately that's just how construction is so I don't care if you're an electrician or a flooring guy
that's just how construction is so quality is first but also give care
about your client care about the store you're working for care about making them look great one of the Great great
Prides I had was when my when I was working by the hours when my company would tell me my cost on that job and if
I had a a low installation cost and um
you know that that I was proud that I was making my company money uh I'm I
still feel like that's a a valuable um characteristic to have as an installer
is be proud that your company that you're working for is making money or
that if you're working directly with homeowners that you're improving their lifestyle because they're going to go on
your new floor they're going to take showers in your new tile tile shower they're going to be looking at it all
the time knowing you know thinking in their mind how beautiful it is like you are providing it a tremendous value um
so just remember that when you present yourself and don't ruin your great quality with a shitty attitude that's
what I'm saying yeah 100% And and um one thing too for for creating value is uh
consistency um that that helps create value for for individuals and what you
just said too about the hours um when when I worked for a company hourly too they would they would put uh estimated
hours for a project right and that was for them to be profitable that was a challenge to me
always a challenge oh we have you know 120 hours on this job I got this many
people this many days let me see what I can do to beat that and I would track all that um I wish my
company would have been that sophisticated to tell me what they or or care enough to tell me they just come
tell me what my job C afterwards they tell me but I would uh I would have that that goal on there and you know recently
I started trying to put that in our work orders but as soon as I started doing that it just it just seemed like that
number didn't make nobody paid attention to it hours exceeded that like these are the hours we need for us to be
profitable right if we're here or below we're profitable uh we're above this then we start chipping away at uh at
margins and uh yeah soon as I start putting on there margins start chipping away past
oh 80 hours yeah I think that's why companies may not do that some some some people I mean just to be you know
transparent and honest here you know some people are going to look at that and say well I've got this many hours to
do it and that's how long it's going to take me to do it and don't desire to beat that uh don't see that as a
challenge but uh the ones who see it as a challenge like yourself look at what
you've done I mean that's I I wish I could impart some of you guys into some
of these characteristics that come out in the podcast and like implant them
into some of the installation uh people that we've dealt with over the years uh
you know that there's a lot of similarities from from start to finish there's a ton and um work ethic is work
ethic no matter what right values are values no matter what um Integrity is
integrity right like there's there's not oh you know today I'm not gonna be that
no Integrity is is is a it's a character trait it's a character trait and and had
it since day one and I think that's where the value um for for myself started being creative is when I worked
for someone else I represented them the best possible way right because not only
was I representing the company that I worked for I was still representing myself right
I yeah but you know I mean we always represent ourselves and and I think that's important for people to realize
but be okay representing your company in a positive manner like that that don't
just be okay strive for that I think that that is just uh an aspect that you
know especially when you're if you're dealing with a lot of subcontractors um you know them wanting
their the accolades of a good project to go to them and not to the company they
they work for well we get the same thing no one walks into my commercial even if
the sheet vinyl is so beautiful no one walks in there and says hey who was the flooring contractor on this they say who
was the designer who was your architect who was your Builder they get all the accolades that we put all the hard work
in I appreciate that I'm glad they get that because if they're feeling getting
that positive feedback they know I did the job they know I'm a big portion of why they're getting those accolades I'm
GNA get more work from that client I'm GNA get more work from that GC because they know that so it's okay is my point
yes Kendall Kendall says uh he doesn't work hourly but how does a person find a
Fair hourly wage in our field and I think that's that's a loaded
question because there's it's like are you an employee are you working for
yourself you know a lot of what what we talk about is basically based on um you
know self-employed people right because building a business and stuff like that so really in reality you need to figure
out what your target is per year and then break that down
like typically you're working what 240 hours 280 hours without any vacation or
anything so how much do you need to make a year divided by that number that's how much
you should be at hourly at least yeah and it that's a tough
question because all the qualifications come in behind it yes you know um
so um I would say and and it also greatly varies by your
demographic area or your geographic area so if you're in um you know
California and if you're in Orange County your your hourly rate is going to be much higher than Witchita
Kansas it just is I mean you still buy a house you can still buy a house here for
150,000 bucks you can't buy a house in Orange County for 150 you can't buy a container house in Orange County for 150
when we were in for at foro what you know there was a bunch of guys from uh New York there and they were like if
we're not making over a hundred grand a year like we're we can't live in New
York he said my taxes on my house are like $26,000 a
year yeah see that's the thing like I think I'm I we're in a higher taxed area where I live and my my property taxes on
our house is like $5,000 and I'm like oh my God 26,000 but
that's the point is it it matters where you're at but I would say that's why
your calculation Daniel has to come in like you you got to find out where your bottom dollar is and then start stacking
okay if I have to make this uh I bring extra value because I am foro
certified I am you know XYZ XYZ whatever
I'm also you know been to four different trainings on proper uh floor prep and uh
or if you're in the tile world and I'm I'm laminam certified and and uh you
know slim line certified in the gauge porcelain panels or or whatever uh you
can stack those on and say okay well I need to make 42 bucks an hour I live in
you know this area and and that's what it calls for you know if you're here in
witto and you make you know in the mid to high 30s you're you're you're really
good and you and that's about what the pay is for a a quality in a high quality
installer um I know down in Texas if you catch if you can find it's
kind of like a unicorn but if you can find an hourly installer down there no they're down there but the vast majority
of Texas is Subs um in fact the vast majority of the United States if you
take the whole amount is 80 the statistics say 87% of all flooring
you've walked across is installed by Subs so you know um but if if you were down
in you know a certain part of Texas you might you might be at 28 bucks an hour I
I don't know all the different ranges of the different are is on an hourly basis but um if kind of that midline I would
say if you're a high quality installer is at 25 to
$35 I know that's a big window but somewhere in there is probably you know
but that's it changes by Geographic so much it's hard to like put to to really
answer that right then once you start getting to the employees too you have to start looking at you know the entire
package the package as a whole you know um what is provided what don't you need to buy Health Care great great point I
mean yeah so consider that I mean we provide Health Care to our to our uh
installers just like we do for our office staff we don't treat anybody different we all have the same benefits
um so you know that's a if if you don't know health care costs are very very
expensive so take that into account yeah like yeah our ours went up
8.4% we got so lucky this year ours is up just under four but still up we we
um most companies like 14% most companies were more like La
were more like last year maybe we took the hit last year and didn't take it this year but uh I know a lot of
companies that are up 12 to 20% this year so Healthcare all those benefits
are do you have a vehicle provided is your gas covered do you drive the vehicle home do you pick the vehicle up
at the office every day all these things need to be considered when you're thinking about your overall compensation
package with a company but I don't know that that helped Kevin at all but um just kind of a it it was Kevin right did
I say that right Kendall Kendall sorry I don't know if that answered Kendall's uh question but I I know it's uh gave him a
lot more to think about I could tell you that because because it's a loaded question uh Kendall
like good luck you know just just I all I will say
is that if you're wrong on the price and you have an introductory uh um or hourly
rate just remember you can always go up but as soon as you tell someone sorry you're not worth what you said I'm gonna
take you down here you can pretty much kiss them goodbye right nobody wants to go back so figure out a game plan that
works for you um and maybe do like a probationary period
saying sounded like he was a sub uh maybe not a direct question for himself
but as a Guiding Light for maybe he's looking to hire someone what I always
say if you're on the employer side is you know
there's once you've considered the whole uh value of that installer it's hard to
know until you've worked for a little a little bit of time so we have this period of 60 to 90 days where we're
going to set you at this and then after that we're going to adjust and it's going to be based on these five metrics
that I've mentioned you know professional attitude punctuality dependability and your quality now that
doesn't mean you have to be a full-fledged installer if you're just getting into it you can be a quality
helper like you can be a quality Apprentice you know care about the the
way that things are done uh and do the job duties that you have in a quality manner uh all that to me is is is how
after 90 days then we'll set the person at where we believe um all the from
those metrics how they uh the value that they provide to us and thus the value we provide to the marketplace and thus the
directly uh affects the amount of money that we can charge and so that make yourself as valuable as possible and you
won't even have to worry about about it you know I've been seeing a lot of these um Tik toks come across and you know
this dude is talking about how PE just people are these days when they're just like they think that just by showing up
they're worth so much more you know I'm here every day I should be making this much but they're not providing any value
to you know they're not trying to learn they're just you can like he'll say all the time I can show up every day and not
do anything and think that I'm worth more but it's what are you doing to add value and that goes for being an
employee and being you know a contractor in general and and knowing what you're
worth it's what value are you providing to the clients so that way they know
that you're worth this much yeah um I've had it told to me and
I like this uh analogy but it's like a parking a paid parking spot it's only valuable if someone's using it like if
it's useful right otherwise it's just sitting there and it's it's costing whoever it is so if you're like a p an
empty parking spot meaning you're not providing any additional value but you're there then you're you're actually
going to probably cost your employer money so be valuable like I don't know
where that whole you know well the pendulum will swing the other way but I
don't know where this whole thought process came to be like you have to provide value to the marketplace
and whether you're employee we're in the information age right and everything is
blasted out on social media everywhere and I see a bunch of stuff about you know people bragging about how they go
to work and they don't do anything all day and you know it's like it's a flex to them that they don't
do anything at work all day and then their employer has to pay them like yeah
like like that's a I don't know I I'm I'm a value-driven person
I place my own worth on on producing and
doing things and and providing value whether it's to my family or to my
friends or to my colleagues or to the marketplace I I don't doing as little as
possible and expecting as much as possible is just stay away if you're
that type of person uh you're not my kind of guy I mean I mean I could lose
some friends over that one maybe but at the end of the day that's true I'm just telling you right up if you think that
if you're that type of person that thinks I'm going to do as little as possible and expect as much as as
humanly possible you're just you're not my type of person right and this goes back to the conversation I mean it's
been probably on a few podcasts now where you know when I was not too too deep into the the trade
and I'm telling him I'm like I'm not I don't want to do this like they're only
paying me this much and he's like well that's why they're only paying you this much because you feel like you're you're
not getting paid enough so you're not wanting to do anything so it's like provide that value then get the
residuals it's not the other way around it's not give me this much money and then I'll start doing something yeah
like people need to just change their mindsets and it's hard to talk to people with that mindset because they don't
understand yeah um I always had this thing where and I I probably get it from my mother and a few of my uncles growing
up it's don't ask for for for handouts if you're not putting in the word right
like show make it hard for them to tell you no make it hard for them to not see
the value and if you do offer the value and you create value within yourself and you approach them and they say I'm sorry
we don't see it think guess what it's time for you to move on but don't don't be delusional either
right like don't don't don't create this facade where the trophy by participation
thing uh where your value is up here because you you just wanted to be up
there but you're not really showing the work The Parking Spot well that's that's probably part of just the Social Media
stuff I mean we all use it or or consume some stuff off social media but the the
truth is is that a lot of times it it glorifies this idea of not doing much and getting a lot uh there's more
get-rich quick schemes than ever I mean they've always been around and they've always attracted people so they've
always stayed around but those get-rich quick schemes are that mentality like
I'm going to do as little as possible and get paid as much as possible now I'm not saying you can't
take advantage of things there's investment opportunities in the world that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about what you personally
provide to the marketplace or to your employer pseudo the marketplace uh is is
your value and you can't um you know the higher you the more skill you acquire
the better um you present yourself the more effective you are the more uh
Pleasant you are the more you're going to the more you're going to be worth
that that the math is math to me that to me this is like mathematics and
uh this idea that you know a a lot for a little it never works longterm it never
works and so you know you want to be careful if you're in that mindset um I
don't know that we got off track we just went really deep on what the value of
you what your value is and and understanding um you know that that's a
big part what you're providing uh to you know charging what you're worth that
being said if you are high value and you're working for someone who's trying
to bust you down um and not pay you what
you know you're worth what are some tricks uh we kind of touched on some of those early on in this uh podcast but
what what is some of your guys' thoughts there I mean this everything goes back to communication right you're the people
don't know unless you say something and it all it all has to start with that conversation we have to go to you know
whoever we're doing work for and and say sometimes it's like uh you know we we do
one job and then the next job and they're like how is this so much more and it's like man I did the math and I
didn't make any money last time so I'm I'm I'm sorry but I got to charge you more right like it's it's just that that
Natural Evolution it's the same thing if if you're an employee it's like don't
don't go and and demand stuff it's like hey I think that I'm worth a little bit
more what can we do in order to get to this place what what it's not even what
can we do is what what can I do to provide more value to you what do you need me to do in order to be able to
make this is where I want to be where do I need to get from this point to this point you know what he just made me
think of this right here too and this I'm gonna go back to beginning of the football season with my son we were
missing practices because we had overlap baseball and he said you know he's been practicing hard he wanted to get more
playing time but he wasn't getting the playing time beginning of the season and uh I told him go talk to the coach hey
coach what can I do to present more value to the team so that way that way I
can be on the field a little bit more where am I where am I falling short
right that was the that was dude the coach came up to me afterwards in tears like I've never had a 10-year-old ask me
that that's phen and that's great guidance by you from
you by the way like I I didn't want to do it for him I needed him to do it and step up right he needed figure it out
for himself and it needed to be authentic from him and um it worked he says well you're missing
practices and this and he's like well we already told you know so and so we were gonna miss because I have baseball but
you know what can I work on afterwards when I'm here and dude like from then on it was just like totally different
and and that's what like Daniel said communication I if no one comes and talks to me here in the office when they
have a chance I don't know right I don't I don't know um and if someone has uh if
someone's in a position where they feel that they are more valuable come and talk say hey this is why I'm more
valuable show me like bring show me hey this is what I've been tracking this is this is what I bring to the table this
is what I would like to do this is where I would like to be okay and then just be
ready to have a discussion right like all right well this is what I see so
let's work on this I don't have a problem like I love your plan like I love it I want to pay you more money
because you're making making the company more money so let's be better together right let's figure this out and a lot of
times that's what's gonna happen um I I I think that uh I there is a ton of
great information that's come out here I hope everybody uh grabbed a few nuggets on you know increasing your value so um
you know you can charge what you're worth um frankly you can charge what you're worth but the the higher your
value the more you can charge period I don't care whether you're hourly or something
um and I I can really appreciate how going to you and communicating and
asking like hey hey man I want to go up I'd like to get an increase in Pay what
kind of things do I need to do to increase my pay that that if if people do that or if
a sub comes to the to the store owner and says or whoever runs the work and says hey you know I need to increase my
prices what can I do to provide more value to you that would help you feel good about that maybe it's as simple as
like hey man if you clean up your job site a little bit better where I don't always have to sence someone behind you
it could be something simple uh so communication it seems to come up on every topic but communication is a piece
of this and then don't be scared to ask for what you're worth when you are when you when you have a full understanding
of what that is yeah 100% yeah 100 well
I I don't know how an hour went so fast uh I I know it's been a minute since I
feel like a huddle went this quickly but uh I hope everybody got some value out of this I want to reiterate here before
we um uh part the twoe course here in Witchita Daniel do you uh recall your
the one up in Michigan again it was in February I think I still have it pulled up uh so December 4th through the 15th
is in Witchita it's a two-e course it's free and again I'm just going to go ahead and share this for the the last
little bit uh this QR code uh this the one in Jennison Michigan in February
is by you sharing your screen it took me off oh it is February 5th through
16th and I post that that link from that QR code right on the the live feed so I
I shared the huddles live feed um and I I posted in the comments on I might yeah
Ash if you'll share this in our socials and on our uh in our description on the Huddle that would be excellent as well
get to that uh and the last reminder is the Sim uh scholarship make sure to
apply I hope I wish everybody the best it's always fun honestly I say always
last year was our first year but it was a really fun experience to to give that away and somebody wins something like
that and be so appreciative so um you know put your name in the Hat it doesn't
matter if you're in the office or out in the field uh you'll find Value in that course and and this twoe course if
you're new you're going to find a lot of value in that I promise you at least on the Witchita one and I'm sure the same
is in Michigan but I know the trainers these guys are good and they're going to
understand kind of what they'll watch you over that two weeks they're going to know what you're kind of gravitating
towards and and help you get better and and prepare you for the the marketplace
um and uh if you're in witch I'll hire you so they got a pretty good setup there too so it's it's it's nice yeah
pretty impressive yeah all right gentlemen well as always uh I super
appreciate the conversation it's it's it's uh it's been fun went by fast but
uh you know like they do when you get into a role so I hope you guys have a great Thanksgiving Thanksgiving to every
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone you know enjoy some time with family turkey I'm not going to Turkey
are you off turkey uh Daniel one of one of the guys here my partner at go carera
said I cook steak every year I like I like one year we did tacos one year I
think I did a prime rib but I don't eat any of the turkey I'll be honest like
I've been over that for a very long time my sister I don't know why there's something nostalgic to it for me um you
may not most people don't know my background but growing up we didn't really celebrate that kind of thing when
I was a little kid it wasn't until I was a teenager that uh unfortunately my parents got divorced and and remarried
and my dad's new wife was all about these holidays and so it was like my
first uh it was the traditional turkey maybe a spiral ham it something
nostalgic about turkey for me I really love uh that this time of year so maybe
it's just family so hang out with yours and enjoy it huh we have it we have there all the time I'm just saying I
don't need it yeah yeah I hear you all right guys thank you sir we will talk to you
uh a little bit later and Ashlin if you could cut us
out
The Huddle - Episode 72 - Addressing Installer Burnout
This week the guys address the physical and emotional burnout that an installer can experience, and different ways to prevent and handle it.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle com at you every Tuesday 3 pm
Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career today with me Mr Daniel and host
J Gonzalez from preferred flooring in Grand Rapids Michigan how's it guys how how's how's
Grand Rapids today it's actually kind of warm out it's like it's kind of nice
it's 56 that's like summertime it's it's hot outside well you guys were uh I don't
know if his last podcast or the previous it was snowing out it snowing yeah it was two weeks
ago oh man well we are in the Midwest and you guys are too so it can change
that way we happen to have some nice weather over here perfect weather to discuss
today's topic of installer burnout um it's not not your typical
topic we we uh go into but um because I just don't think it's
discusted enough because there's a lot of nuance to it is it install or burnout
uh from from a aspect that they still want to be you know they still love flooring but they just been you know
it's the summertime and you got got them working on seven days a week trying to get school projects
done uh or traveling all over the the nation doing different projects um or is
it actual you know just sick of being in the flooring
industry uh chatting with you guys just a minute ago I mean I mean I don't know
that I've ever experienced as an installer the the like I want to be out of this industry side but I have been
burnt out like worn out and I don't know if there's a lot of
um a lot of uh remedies to that outside of taking some time off we all need to
we all need to recharge our batteries and um I thought it was interesting earlier I was watching a podcast about
being in the Flow State and like performing at your highest and how
important rest and Recovery is to being like a top performer in whatever
you're doing whether it's installing floors or uh you know being in the trades or whether it's working in an
office and uh I thought it was really interesting uh just a piece that came out of that
the difference between relaxation and Recovery relaxation is
going home and kicking on the tube and you know throwing back a couple of beers at the end of the day and Recovery is
actually disconnecting and and like getting in some silence and some some
getting out of your own headp space and and trying to you know disconnect from
the world for a minute thought that was kind of an interesting
um interesting take on it but how do you do that as an installer and like what
are the signs how do you even know as a company when you're installers or when a
particular installer is burning out what are the signs of
that um always late missing forgetting things all the
time not caring about your stuff I mean those are those are signs because I mean
we just experienced it so I mean we're gonna continue to experience it but most recently just experienced it and the
signs started happen months ago um even after time before time off was was there
but and I know because I was I was his dollar I I remember like I
I remember just oh well oh well I'll worry about that tomorrow you know like
stuff like that but then then all it does is compound everything and put you in even worse spot um talk about punch
list and stuff like that you can like when someone's typically doesn't have a lot of punch list items and then that
next job I mean sometimes you know it takes a lot out of them and at the end of that job it's like man we got a bunch
on here and then you you actually realize like yeah maybe some people are overworked but
that's it's hard to say because I've seen I guess everyone burns out at
different times right because I've seen it where it's like come on guys you're not even working a full 40 hours a week
on the job site so how is this burnout even happening
right now well that's that's what makes it a complicated thing is because it's not always work hours it's it can be the
particular they they could be working beyond their skill set and really you
know working on stuff that's really difficult for them to to do that's where
I found the most if it frustration slash install or burnout would be when I was
doing things that were super challenging that I was probably installing beyond my
my knowledge or beyond my ability and still had to figure out a way to get it done I know we all get there on certain
projects sometimes um but the the details is what I have seen the most in
our company is it's like the little details that guys usually don't miss um
that get missed it's like those turns into punch list like you said but it's
the it's not like the whole job looks terrible or something it's the detail stuff I had a a project where um just
recently where went in and replaced some some carpet tile on a project that that
had curled it was a manufacturer defect it was a claim we went in was able to
leave the vinyl base well when they cut some of the tile uh you know they cut
through the base on a couple of locations they left it instead of
replacing 8et of Base uh the rest of the whole thing they didn't cut through they
cut through a couple spots and they thought I I could almost guarantee you the thought was like h no one will
notice or you know let's prop it up on there look can't even tell can't even tell yeah the first vacuum hits it and
you see the cut you know and we had to go back and and replace you know eight
or 10 feet of Base where that particular installer that was doing that wall uh
you know decided to leave it and it was a night job because you're trying
to you know go in and replace something you just installed a month ago and so it
turned from a project to a occupied project and so now you're trying to move stuff and you're having to move you know
some furniture around and replacing things and and it it was clear to me
that you know we probably shouldn't had them work that day and then have them go work four or five hours at night
honestly hindsight it's always 2020 um but you know it's those kinds of
things where it can be just a day um where you got to be cognizant of of
your cruise you know and and uh because we all try to deliver great products to our you know in end of the day try to
deliver great projects I should say to our clients but you
know Duty calls and you try to try to satisfy time frames and everything else
and so all these things come into it that make it complicated but you know I wonder what if there's anybody out there
that's had true like because I've heard of those guys just like I'm getting the hell out of flooring I'm just done and
I've seen some guys do thata that buddies of ours have done
that like they call say everything's for sale everything's for sale you want it
uh are you sure yep I'm sure okay and then we buy a few things and a year
later they're like yeah I guess I'm just gonna do it again but I'm only gonna do this kind of flooring now it's like yeah
I've had those guys too like hey I'll do your carpet top I don't do anything else like I said like
the hours and what actually you
know how people feel about things like we got Paul on YouTube right now he is talking about he's the guy from the ukuk
and he he says that health and safety is burning him out you know trying to
follow every single thing down to a te and it's like well if I can't do this
this way like I've been doing and trying to switch everything over and and on top
of that um not feeling like you're you're not getting paid what you're worth for the
project you're doing right so that that could be a big thing too but at the same
time that's what it's this is all about is knowing that knowing what you're worth and and charging for that that way
you don't have to feel like that yeah that's one of the key aspects
of the hammer rating for the installer I mean that whole thing was
to really give the good installers that ammo behind them hey if you got a a
great hammer rating a great Kudo rating then oh you know you you're going to
make more money um in the areas where go career is used heavily that's been
proven true and you know p in the
um pay I wonder how much the the attitude towards
flooring guys on projects uh plays into it because we're we're a disruptor on on
a job because we have to take up the floor the floor space and so it's when
you're constantly fighting for your next area and you know when I first got into
the business it was it was different
like it was understood and gc's like it seemed like it was
more like they wanted to get out of your way now it's like more like you got to
fight to get them out of your way um I don't know if that just condens schedules or if it's a multitude of
things but man when you're fighting all the time for space that can play into it
as well you know like 100% I just want to do my job man get out of my way the
line that I use a lot uh in scenarios like that is I need the floor to do the floor I can do 200 square feet pretty
close same amount of time I could do 2,000 square feet it's just you you make me start and stop uh the the less
efficient we're going to be and then we're going to be here longer so it's either you cleared people out for one
day or they keep moving all their stuff around multiple days uh you know and
it's just it's hard to get it's hard to get people to understand that
yeah well that's that's obviously the battle we got to fight for our installers as companies but at the the
same time you know I hope this reach some GC sometimes
and they can hear the frustration that that comes across and and that we have to deal with we we only want to come and
do a good job but fighting for space is is uh you know an added like pressure on
the installer to especially when it's like oh you tell tell me when you're
going to be there well like you just had that that gets
frustrating that gets frustrating for a company but it also gets frustrating for the guys on site um but you know another
part to that is like every time that an install installer has a new
thing to have to like speaking to Paul's um comment from
YouTube every time you have to do a little bit more and this safety thing has you know obviously gotten much more
critical over the last 10 years than what it I mean I remember go to job sites not no hard hat
like it was it was just like if if I have to wear a hard hat you're not ready for me that's how we that's what we used
to say and that just doesn't fly anymore and um so I know a lot of guys still
struggle with that that piece like safety is a big
piece of what the gc's are looking for these days if you're working for gc's but even building like some of our um
end users they they want you to be safe and so they're starting to adopt even like
that kind of an attitude towards it maybe not as Hardline but we've got some
owners that they want you to have the proper safety gear and high viz vests
and everything when you're on their on their property they want to be able to to differentiate you just by looking at
you like he's working construction somewhere he does he that way it's not
like what is this guy doing in our building yeah but all those going into play with what a what a guy has to
juggle on site um I always recommend just swallow swallow hard safety is not
going anywhere you might as well adopt it and embrace it and you
know go to a job site with everything on be prepared there's we don't fight with
our guys anymore about it it's just this is the rule um but outside of that a lot
of the the the burnout that I that I've seen or that I've talked to some guys
about is the frustration like you said with pay and never getting ahead that
never getting ahead part I think could be visited back to some previous
podcasts about financially knowing your worth but also I know some guys that
have you know some Crews that have been paid very well that still constantly seem to struggle and I think that's just
you know go watch some previous podcasts about you know handling your financial
situation better because as you know money is one of the hardest like
stressors in anyone's life and if you don't if you're not handling that right
then the rest of it can go be very stressful and you can be like ah
and like you said Jose the I've had plenty of guys I have witnessed guys
leaving and then they come back I only have one guy that I know of uh that was
certified good carpet installer good sheet vinyl guy
um that quit went driving trucks and he's still driving trucks today five
years later I quit for a little while too because went to electrical for almost a year um and tell us about it
obviously you had a reason well that was more of a that was more of a atmos
atmosphere right like there's a lot of pressure on me to pick people up and you
know and when then when when I was picking people up in the winter and everybody one
person runs five minutes late another person runs a couple minutes late next you know now the people I'm picking up
because they're relying on me to get to the job site um now we're you know half hour 45 minutes
behind it comes down on me then it didn't matter what I it didn't it just
didn't matter right came down on me and I think everybody that was a that was a Tipping Point like you know what I just
don't I don't want to pick anybody up anymore then like I just don't want to do it um yeah that can get old yeah and
and this is you know a long time ago so uh times definitely changed and um you know there's probably a lot more in
between to the story than that but in a nutshell that was it right It's just
sometimes added responsibility and then and then when nobody cares that responsibil was added to you and they
don't see what you got to deal with when they're not around um makes you just not
want to care for them anymore don't want to pick you up yeah they don't want to
be your chauffeur you're a grown man what what do you do when your sub Crews
sh I you know showing some of those signs of burnout is there is there do
you guys ever get to that point where you're like we need to loosen up on giving this crew so much work because
some of their quality is is it when the quality starts to come
down because that's what we do and I don't know that it's at effective because then the damage is already done
it's almost like you got to look out and see that that yeah
I'll be honest I don't I don't know about that point because we don't we try to do the majority of everything in house so yeah the work for Subs is few
and Bar in between um and I will say that uh there's one or
two where I always feel like the work that I have for them is scheduled
they're like so busy and it's like oh I guess I'll fit it in like look you can't fit it in I like I don't I don't want
you to squeeze me in right honest about that because if something goes wrong on
the other job guess what you're not showing up for mine or carrying that that burden on your
shoulders into our project too and I don't want I don't want the explosion to
happen on our project I don't want it to happen I want to be priority right and you know
and every that comes down to scheduling and and knowing what you can do and and
making sure you schedule yourself correctly and that don't take on too much work for what you can you know but
I've I've had plenty of Crews like commit to
projects and I don't think that it was really considered whether they could you know
fully they fully commit but whether they could perform that project to the to the
degree uh that we wanted um and that comes clear we but it if we can identify
it earlier we might be able to do something about it but by the time I've identified
it it's like they're already they're already doing those
things that are going to cause the problem yeah so that what you just said
though like we as Subs right when we were labor only and and doing
that I would say that there was a hard I had a hard time balancing that because you either have too much work or not
enough and we had to say what time of year is it what are we
shooting for where are we at how are the guys doing can we take this on or no and
sometimes they sometimes the answer was no sometimes it was like you know I just I don't care that it's gonna be slow in
a month I just don't want to do it right now I don't want to deal with that and
well I appreciate the guy that are are that know their schedule and know what they can get done in a given time we had
a scenario come up where guy committed to a
job had the whole project lined out I mean all the information when he
accepted the project um got about three qus of the way through it and had another job he had to go
to and pretty much left us high and dry we to go you know get somebody else
to do that job and that's not necessarily burnout but it it that's what leads to it because he knows he's
letting one of his main companies down you know and that can't feel good
to him but at the same time you got to look at the what you can actually get done and commit to your projects and
make sure you have to schedule and then schedule some time off for yourself I I know a lot of the time when I was
installing as a sub I I took on everything it didn't matter man I work
any hours all the time and you know I
burnout might be the right answer at the time I just thought I was tired you know
but give yourself some time off to to recover I know you guys you know you you prioritize family
and I think that's a big part of this too you know people who prioritize family and understand they need that
family time and they need the the time with their loved ones um tend to you
know manage this a little bit better than than others we but like I said
that's that's what we do though it's if I know we're going to be going somewhere I will work a million hours between this
time and this time so that way when I do leave everything's covered so maybe it is working up to that burnout point just
in that little bit of a time but then also taking that time to kind of reset
Daniel yeah you kind of know you have that recovery time coming right around the corner yeah like he worked till
midnight last night uh uh in the field we had a a guy uh quit on us yesterday so he went out worked till midnight
right he intentionally put himself in in a burnout mode but that was so that way
the the crew who had to go wrap up the project today didn't burn themselves out um
yeah some people are are are mentally strong enough to do it and re set in the
morning some people are not some people just hold on to to um they dwell on on
on something something's eating them um and and a lot of the mental burnout comes from like you said overextending
your ability right uncomfortable situation for extended period of time but also it's lack of communication
because if you're not expressing yourself whether you're sub and employee um uh even gc's if they don't express
themselves I've seen them blow up at the end of if you're not expressing concerns and you're not bringing things to anyone's
attention and nobody knows but you or nobody knows but the crew you're working with because that's the tendency is the
vent to who who you see every day right but nobody's ever relaying that that can
also lead to burnout um and communication is part of it like you
got to communicate these are my thoughts these are my feelings these are my concerns I'm not really into it mentally right now I don't know why but I'm going
to keep pushing on um what can we do to help me out what can we do to make some changes so that way
you can put your best foot forward I think that we we're talking about
burnout right but I think there's he's talking about mental burnout and then there's physical burnout so I think there's two different kinds of burnout
because good point because physically I think it's a lot easier to go out there
and burn yourself out physically but mentally it's when it's like becomes real drastic where you know especially
on the business owner side and then when you're running Crews like when we were labor only even and then having to go
home and handle all the paperwork and then I think that side is is really a
lot more taxing personally because when I was just installing I didn't have to use my brain as much I just went out
there and you know beat up my body and yeah you get tired like you said yeah I'm tired I'm tired but then you wake up
and do it all over again the the mental side is where it's like I mean there's
been times where I'm sitting at my desk and I'm just like I'm just I'm going to
go do something else for you know an hour or so because mentally you just can't handle
it anymore and it's just like that hour break just relieves so much pressure
that you have built up in your head yeah yeah it's one of the one of the reasons
we we with our hourly Crews we require like a lunch period we've had had to
fight that over the years where guys work through lunch and they're just like H just want to you
know they just want to um whether whether they actually work through lunch
or not we don't know uh other than you know they're still clocked in
and but doing that every single day um a
it's a safety problem we want them to reset a little bit um but it's also
important to just kind of get away at some point in the day you talked about an hour away it could be 20 minutes away
I've stepped away from the the computer just to get my thoughts and and quit
looking at the ding thing um but I do agree with you when you when you're
bridging both sides is when it gets really tough when you're trying to when I was subbing and I'd get home and have
to like do an hour's worth of paperwork or figure out you know my receipts and trying to because I tried to do job
costing even then I wanted to know whether I was actually profitable on the job and if I had to buy a a new tool
just for that project then you know I was calculating that and doing the
paperwork side on the back side of installing that that can be taxing and so you got to mentally
um I don't I don't know that there's a great way to handle that unless you got somebody that can give you some help and
it's a muscle it's a muscle right like you it's something that you have to
practice and you do get better at it right the things that that you you miss in the beginning you don't miss after
you get a little more practice right because it becomes second nature it's like installing you didn't go out your
first time and flash cove and weld right you went out probably 20 times uh on
your first flash or Flash C W before you walked away from one seam or one vertical uh weld that you were like I
did that right some 20 times 50 times like I know is everyone hits those
milestones at different points but that's what it is it's that muscle that you have to you got to exercise it and
get better and come up with your own system that works for you using other people's ideas maybe but um that that
was the that's the hard part just understanding I've hit a brick wall let
me walk away for a minute and then come back refresh like back in the day I used
to say it all the time look I am really mad at this right now this is not working for me I set my
tools down I set them down nice right because that's me trying to reset set my
stuff down nice and say I'll be right back I'll be back in a little bit I've been there and maybe not set my
tools down so nice before I I think it it was more maybe it was me but I know Crystal
does it too it's like you gotta come do this I'm gonna go do something else you know what I give up I give up
right now please help me and some people do that yeah it's
certainly nice if you have somebody that can come you know pick up the
the I I found the most frustration when I'm trying to pattern match carpet than
almost anything else um it wasn't matching and you're trying to stretch the tar out of it or whatever and you're
working on a time limit too because that adhesive setting up Y and you you just got the phone with the tech rep and he
said no that's within tolerance and you're working to try to
make this thing look as best as you can um oh I've gotten so far frustrated if
there's a a day burnout I've certainly been there I was ready to like just go join the tellers at the at the store I
was working at you know asking people who walk by how much do you guys make where are you I'll be the
greeter but I I I think that um you know it's not a super deep subject I mean at
the end of the day we we work with our hands as installers or you work with
your mind as an installer as well and certainly those two when you're working them together and you're doing something
complicated just being cognizant going into it that that day is going to be
challenging preer preparing yourself sorry I couldn't get that out but preparing yourself for that day and
knowing going into it it's going to be it's going to be one of them days it's it could be rewarding if you're properly
you know prepared but um I also see that as a a big part when
when we're installing getting prepared for our day our tools are right you know
there's nothing more frustrating to me than when my helper or somebody would leave like patch on my trials or glue
all you know those things and you're going in first thing and you're cleaning tools up and like taking care of your
installation can help a lot taking care of your tools um but you know like I
said it's not a super deep subject it's just being cognizant of it and having a few little you know tricks and I think
taking a a breather and I know it can get hard to take a breather when you got people breathing down your neck to get
the job done but at the same time how much more valuable can you be if you come back and you're super engaged in
what you're doing and that goes for whether you're in the office or whether you're installing in the field yeah yeah
Rollin says that he can't stop for lunch because it makes him feel more lazy than just working straight through and that
George eats enough for both of them which I agree but I I think it's it depends on
the person yeah on the person right because because I will get something to eat but I'll be working take a bite work
over here take a bite and just keep on going right and um I just actually listened to the book again Leaders Eat
Last and that's kind of like you got that one too that's a good one I um I
didn't realize you know how much of this stuff we had in our minds already
because like in the field I was always like you guys go to lunch I'm just gonna stay back here I'm GNA set everyone up
that way when you guys get back you just keep on going and then maybe I'll take 10 15 minutes you know but
if if I don't set us up right now right then you know we're just going to be at
at a stand still if everyone just leaves so so so the that that's it right you're
constantly constantly having progress being done and and size of the crew the
person right but um I some people just don't need that mental break that long of a mental break
or to get away from it at for for a full lunch right I I don't know I'm one of
those people well maybe not every day I'm just saying that there's when you feel that coming
on understanding that and saying you know taking a half hour
away can reset your mind and I know
plenty of guys that like to work through work and and get home early um or you
know get off a little early I understand that but if you're
working a a full day um having a little break can help but not that each you
know everybody's a little bit different is different John says that he takes one hour religiously and if it's nice
outside he'll go for a 30 minute run that's how you know he's crazy because he like he runs for fun who said
that the Florin nator y bro did you just say you use your lunch break to go
running that he's the no wonder he's the that's that that's Soldier right there
baby whatever clears your mind hey what's cool is that he found a way to do it you know what you know what I'm
saying like if that works for you we had a guy he's retired now but he brought
the same thing for lunch every day he never left the job site to go eat but
you were not he would go if it was nice outside he go sit on find a place to sit
down outside eat his peanut butter and banana sandwich and that's that's what he's
going to do and it was religious
each to their own the key I think is just knowing yourself well enough to to
whether it's go for a run sit and eat your peanut butter and banana sandwich or whatever it is uh to reset
yourself I kind of want to try a peanut butter and banana sandwich now I'm not gonna
lie you know it was every day you know you made me think you made me think of you know we're maybe the burnout happens
because we're just all creatures of habit right we're all creatures of habit and and if your routine gets messed up
so many times during a day during a week it really messes with you mentally the mental drains you physically because you
don't have any energy um or the the physical right if you're physically being pushed to your limits more often
than what you're used to then maybe that's the burnout there too so maybe matter creating that um expectation that
something's going to go wrong something's gon to be different but trying to maintain that structure for yourself I don't know you may me think
well I can tell you one thing that you know the constant push for production in
our industry that that's a real thing and that's constantly you know I know we do it as a
company to our installers we want a certain we need a certain amount of stuff done and it's like this constant
need for production and you know there's jobsite challenges
that they have to face that go along with that production
and I don't know that there's a great way around that that's construction these days timelines have gotten shorter
the expectation for what you do in a day has gotten more and that pressure is
right there on the people on the job site trying to get it done for you the best we can do as companies is
you know have our install backs and and at the same time still have an
expectation that's reasonable um that's a fine line though right I
think like when I was in the field what I would do was I would jam-pack the
front end of the week so that way by the end of the week it was all right you know let's have a all right day on
Friday but I'm seeing like um especially some of the younger people it's they
exact opposite it's always hey we'll just do that tomorrow we'll just do that tomorrow and then by Friday it's like y
you still got to get done today man like there is no hey we didn't we're not going to finish this job today it's it
has to get done and you didn't plan yourself so I don't feel bad for you that you're working till 8 o'clock
tonight that's really I don't because you left at three o'clock on Monday three o'clock on
Tuesday some of this burnout is self- sabotaged just it
and it's real like yeah you can do that to yourselves you can burn yourself out
like just by that doing that day-to-day thing where it's well that that's just
right with the planning we talked about earlier I mean planning a project is planning the whole project for that week
you know and and that's a good point I mean when
you're if the job has to be done and you're pushing you're kicking the can
down the road sooner or later that you know that's got to be dealt with I mean it's got to get it's got to get done
um you know you talk a I talk a lot about it with our with our project
managers about like being cognizant of what we're expecting out of the
installation uh cruise we have on a job but not from the burnout side if I'm
honest it's more of like try to manageing try to have have proper
expectations uh and managing the expectations of our client and being
upfront with them you know we can't get to that part this you
know that far this week or whatever the scenario is on a particular project but that's that's really where you got
to we're in a professional business and it's important that we're professionals
about it and that you know the six PS I think I've said before it came from uh
guy that started a a big company here in in our city uh Rena Center he he his
name's Tom delin and he he uh you know his deal was the six piece was proper
planning prevents piss Bo production and you know at the end that speaks to right
what you were saying Jose is like plan a little heavier in the beginning of the week and make the end of your week a
little bit nicer going into your weekend if you don't have to work and uh but
hour Friday than a four hour Monday I tell you that yeah you know do I want a 10 hour Monday depends on what I did
that weekend I guess right but if my extracurricular activities are causing me to drag out a Monday because I don't
feel good or I'm just like mentally out of it then maybe I need to reassess what I do on the weekends that affecting not
only my Monday but my crew's Monday and everyone else's Monday like you know and
that's the thing too is have I been that person 100% I've been that guy I've been
on a job Sate with this dude like dudee he went to go sleep in the van I gotta go sleep what I gotta go sleep I'm I'm so
sorry like I me and it was like 100 degrees that day too so I was it it
wasn't a good sleep either woke up looked like I peed on
myself um it's just you know I just wasn't well that's I mean fair fair
point that you know how we treat ourselves over the weekend then that goes back to like relaxing or escaping
versus true recovery like the gentleman who goes for a run I forget his name
that just commented the Florin nator the Florin nator yeah that's that's still even he's
exerting his body he's doing it in a different Manner and that that that's he
says that it resets his brain to focus on the task at hand and that's where you get the mental right because I feel the
same way um I'll go work out at 6:00 am. and it's like being there for you know
that half hour 45 minutes that I'm there sets kind of sets the pace for the day
and it's like that's my alone time and the one thing that I used to do when I
when I was feeling the mental burnout or even physically is I used to say hey
let's go to the park I'm gonna pitch you some softballs I'm gonna put my gear on and I want you to hit the ball at me
what I watch it hit the ball at me no matter where I throw it aim for me please and it's like that sounds stupid
right but I was escaping mentally physically I was doing dumb stuff like
that's pretty dumb uh but I was getting my reps in I was escaping mentally and I
was so happy to let all that out like all that sweat everything that I did for
that two hours or three hours however long I was out there practicing like that was my Escape I get it I get the
run I think I think exercising and moving your body intentionally yes is a
great way um to to manage your your burnout it talking about office and even
installers I mean the the the Escape or the the whether you do it
in the morning or at the end of the day like moving your body
intentionally uh is is a big thing our um our controller at our office every
morning runs a stretching routine for the entire anybody there the installers
are there join in uh sometimes they're a little bit more um reluctant when they
are there just shy almost but uh you know a lot of the office staff is
joining her every morning just moving their body doing some stretches I know
some job sites even require that that's more of a safety thing but you know
getting your head in a different mind space I mean we you can you can do multiple different
things that I I think what's important is just just recognizing it so it
doesn't just keep getting worse and worse worse and worse and before you know it you're ready to just quit
everything yeah and that that's where you don't want to end up I think that recognition has come I
mean you got to be able to to verbalize your your feelings and your worries and
um not only to everyone around you but yourself like I'm burnt out right now like we
were talking crap about you because you said you look a little tired you're a little tired right like hey perfect you know yeah I've got the
allergies eye allergy stuff going on so I've been blinking dry eyes all that
good stuff my eyes are burned out like like last night I was here until one o'clock I was working on my niece's
exhaust right was I tired yeah I was tired I kept telling myself I said
there's three more things there's three more things you know but I knew that it had to be done I
didn't realized that it was that she had been sitting without a car for that long so found out what the issue was found a
remedy said I'd take care of it and I felt inclined to do it right that was my
zen it was something totally different from the computer from install from from
the world I don't do ex work every day mix it up guys go for a run at
lunch come back well I I know the the subject this week was not super deep it
was super you know surface oriented but um
one of the things it's you know I I remember sitting at um CFI and one of
the guys talked about he he's just burned out and I
asked what that meant and he's just sick of the same old Sam same and I'm like
you are in charge of your life brother you got to mix in a new a new a whole new uh
product to start installing or something like if you're just burned out that way
um but I think if I've learned anything
it's it's getting away a little bit um whether it's on a day or a week or or
planning your your job to where you have a nice weekend um you know each each
project project is different each scenario is different and we all
have to manage Our Lives as best as we can but being cognizant of it um I hope
none of the installers out there are reaching you know that point we got some holidays coming up and hopefully
everybody can spend a you know a wonderful Thanksgiving and and a little
bit of time off together with your family but uh you know prioritizing your life is a a piece of of having a job and
having a career as well as if you're independent installer running a business
and um I know that that stress that that pressure and the pressure to produce
both for the job and for your family and uh it can get overwhelming sometimes but
hang in there and find some some ways to truly recover yeah and and don't don't
be afraid to say you're not available and I think back in the day we were so
worried about people not calling us back if we said that we can't that we it was hard for us to say no but um I just I
just had a project they're like really need this done before the holiday and I
was just like I'm sorry my hands are tied the best I can do is the Monday after if anything changes I'll let you
know but that's that's the best that I can do we're we're we're we're packed right now and there's a holiday in there
and sometimes the burnout is planned because that's what I did yes it is
planned everyone this is the first required weekend that we've
worked long time like but I was like hey we have this project this is my plan
is to we have to start on Friday and be done on Wednesday but then I'm paying you for
two holiday days and you have the weekend yeah can we do this yeah and
then someone quit on us yesterday so yeah damn it all right well guys I think we've
pretty much like I said chatted through the complications and signs and some
tricks there's no magic here it's just being cognizant and and maybe getting
away it's nice that a few people you know it's first installer I think I've T
that's commented that he goes for a run uh but that's that's excellent I mean
however you can manage the stress and and the demands of a project and the man's of life more power to you I know
now that I think of it he does kind of have a forc gun beard coming in now doesn't he I just felt like
running all right guys well I'm gonna cut this one a little bit short this week thank you is always for joining and
I appreciate your in input joining I I don't even know why I say that I mean like you guys are the Staples of this
deal and and I again appreciate you guys so much if you're the stapler we're just
the Staples you're the whole stapler I don't know Ashlin might be the actual stapler because she makes sure
I'm on Q2 I know getting text uh is anyone gonna start joining
soon all right guys well have a good week and we will see you guys next week
The Huddle - Episode 71 - Sustainability, Recycling, & Going Green
This week the guys are joined by special guest Rachel Papopoli from Tarkett to talk about recycling, sustainability, and things we can all do in our business to go more green.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle come at you every Tuesday 3M
Central to discuss maintaining Ford progress in your flooring career with me
today as always I say as always but most days is Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from
preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan also today we have a special
guest Rachel and I'm not going to butcher her last name so
uh if one of you guys have a a proper pronunciation please uh go ahead but
we're going to be talking about sustainability and going green um both
from the install side and what that means for us but also manufacturers and
and and what it really uh enta tells um so without further Ado gentlemen how's
how's the week treating um we don't know yet it's
Tuesday well it's been a week since we talk so how did that week treat you
pretty well pretty well we were able to to catch up a little bit I guess and then find out the
things to fall behind on there you go as pretty usual so so pretty normal awesome well Rachel's traveling
today as well so uh if um if we have any
you know connection issues that that's uh might be expected a little bit but uh Rachel if you're there can you tell us a
little bit about yourself and what you uh do with taret absolutely so my name is Rachel
poipoi I am the director of circular economy for taret um I have been in the
flooring industry for about 20 years now so
um primarily my responsibility at taret is to focus just on end of life and
helping you guys actually collect the old flooring and how to properly do that
and how to get it to the collector sorder or to the recycler or back to taret or whatever it is and however we
can upcycle or donate or whatever we're going to do with that product at its end of life but especially to avoid landfill
and your waste to energy so thank you very much for allowing me to join you guys today feel free I can't promise you
I'm going to have the answers but I'll try and do my best more answers than us yeah that
that's that's uh a lot of the questions that we uh I think that we have is is
encompassed around the the collection and and where did
where does somebody send uh you know end of life flooring so flooring um and is that carpet is it all
products what what all kinds of of products can be recycled um and sent
back to either a collector uh or a uh or a
manufacturer so I mean obviously I would love to tell you that every project that you guys are going to do there's a taret
floor going in right that would be I mean that would make my life fantastic um and our company very happy but
obviously we know that that's not the case um so a lot of the times we have a situation let's say where there's going
in but let's say it's a competitor coming out right it could be a sh an interface product a milikin product so
can we help you with that we can so each different product type ultimately can go
back to somebody else um too so let's take a PVC back to carpet tile for an
example right so that you see a lot of us manufacturers make that product and
so right now there is a process um where you can separ create the fiber from the
backing on a PVC back carpet tile and you're looking to harvest the backing
ultimately that's the endgame there and it's because the fiber still contains
some PVC contamination when you're separating it um you can let's take Shaw
for an example Shaw will take their products back so you guys don't necessarily need me and on something
like that you guys can contact Shaw directly they've got certain requirements to participate in the
program um but if it's a Shaw eworks carpati it'll come back um carpati
obviously is is is fantastic it's the easiest product
that we think that we can collect commercial broom is incredibly difficult
um I feel for you I I I can't stand the product myself but it is sold and it's
still laid you know every single day and and I and I of course only look at it right from a recycling point of view
well you just jumped up about four points in our eyes as well so thank you for saying that about Brom we appreciate
you well good I I mean carpati just makes so much more sense but again
there's a place for commercial broadloom you know I'm not going to completely bash it um residential carpet is
obviously a totally different ball game so I mean let's we we should stick mostly to the commercial side right I
would think okay yeah we could talk about both because I think it's important that people
understand that there are some differences there and maybe how they can participate if they are a retailer in
our audience or if it's a residential um shop so uh yeah if you
wouldn't mind just what is the major difference from because I know you're
going to get into the the broadloom with commercial but what's outside of their's adhesive on the back in of commercial
broadloom that is probably not apparent on the residential products uh what else
is the the big differences so on commercial broadloom
it's a very low fiber right so typically on the commercial bom the fiber is really just tucked it into the backing
and so you're not harvesting a tremendous amount of fiber so it's interesting so when you look at carpati
what are you looking to what are you looking to harvest most of the time carpet tile it's the backing but in
commercial broadland you wouldn't look to harvest the backing you want the Fiber Well there's a very low fiber
right whereas in residential carpet well we all know how high that fiber is so when you look at recycling it or
deconstructing it you get a tremendous amount of fiber off of a piece of residential carpet so so those are the
main differences you know from commercial you know and of course you're right the adhesive you know on
commercial is just a nightmare for anybody looking to to deconstruct that carpet it's just horrible
yeah yeah and there's although we don't like um we're not all the uh biggest
fans of commercial broadloom you can't get away from it in the residential world uh
and you know there's still a lot of commercial broadloom that was installed pre carpti that's still going you know
hitting its into life so we still tear up a fair amount I'd say uh the flooring
company I that that I work at that I own is
um certainly well heavier or much heavier on the
carpet tile installation by far than broadloom So eventually I'm I'm saying
we'll probably work ourselves out of the broadloom scenario um but anyway building on that
so the backing is the most important part do do do we need to know or
understand the different backings for them to be accepted by a manufacturer or is it just if it's a tarat product
coming out uh tarat carpti for example will you guys take back any uh
or does it have to be a certain type of backing you mentioned PVC but there's also already recycled backings on the
market so um does the actual backing system matter to its capability and
ability to be recycled yes it absolutely does so if we
look at another competitor so let's take a milikin product um most of the time my
only recycling that I can potentially do on that is going to be donation or reuse
right so so it's interesting if you can't harvest the back through a recycling process that's when I would
ask you guys to look at the front of it the face Viber and say okay how old is
it does it have another life like would you guys potentially put this in your garage or would you maybe donate it to
you know um a poor Community or maybe Habitat for Humanity or restore and so
there's a lot of different aspects to when you're you guys are facing a a a
project um taret has some unique printing that's typically done on the
backing that as you get experienced in dealing with taret products you'll understand some of those numbers that we
print on the backing that you can kind of know it's taret Shaw bless their
heart I mean they do a great job I mean it's literally it's ecoworks and it says for recycling dial800 shw so it doesn't
get any easier than that um interface typically uses the word glassback and it's g a ba AC on the back of theirs
sometimes you guys don't know but you can always um email me and say hey
here's the front and here's the back of it any idea who this might be right we
can't figure out who the manufact is and so you can you can always sort of rely
on some of us in the industry to kind of help you most of us are crazy enough that we've got a passion for this that
we don't want to see it go to the landfill so like I said ultimately we would love it it's a taret job but if
it's not it doesn't mean that I'm not going to help you and it's because there's grandchildren at some
particular point in my future and I need to protect the Earth for them so we want
to make sure that we're keeping it out of the landfill and if we don't have to incinerate it that would be even
better yeah so there's uh the the social responsibility and
and aspect of like if it can be recycled let's recycle it and you don't have to
be um you know a a full on you don't have to fully
you know uh think the overall um trying to tread lightly here but as if it's you
know global warming and getting into the the whole uh aspect of the environment
to know and at the very basic level if it can be recycled it probably should I
mean I guess that's kind of like the the Baseline of of being environmentally
conscious is throwing your bottles in a a place where they may end up in your
carpet later uh because a lot of carpet fibers are made out of you know recycled
pot bottles uh there's plenty of commercial products that the whole the whole uh wear layer is is uh recycled
pot bottles so the the key it sounds like to me is understanding the
different process or products that can be recycled and then reaching out to uh
to you or is there a recycle does does taret or any of the manufacturers have
like recycled hotlines that you call or is it just um uh the the your local rep
will get you in in you know in uh in contact with somebody that can help you
I I'm talking in other markets obviously sure so your local sales reps I I mean
you know any of your local reps definitely hold their hand to the fire right so you know at taret if you had a
question and let's just say you forget my name and and you've got a taret project they they are well aware of our
restart takeback program um and some of our competitors are too but with enough
of you out there yelling and screaming about recycling then you're going to
trigger a lot of those conversations that may not be taking place and listen demand answers and ask questions because
there is still some green washing out that's going on but you know you mentioned before at the very beginning
of the call I would be remiss if we didn't talk about what are we putting in right so this is also where you guys can
flex your muscles a bit and encourage your you know your facility managers your customers your M users if you have
that influence to make sure that they're buying from a manufacturer that has a recycling or a takeback program because
at the end I'm hoping that you guys are in business for the next 50 years right so maybe this same customer is going to
be flipping that floor two three times well you would sure like to be able to say 10 years from now I'm gonna go back
in and I know it's taret all I have to do is just get a hold of them and they're going to take it back makes your
life a lot easier 10 years from now um you know I can remember doing a project
in a hotel in Phoenix where I was able to recycle the carpet but they were
putting down lvt now this goes down this is a couple of years ago when there was no recycling solution for lvt and I
basically looked at them all and I was like well just here's the deal don't call me 10 years from now because I don't know what I'm GNA do with that LBT
that you're putting in you know because there wasn't a recycling solution for it so you know I think listen anything that
goes into the landfill today 500 years from now it's so be there it's not going to break down it's not going to
decompose and I think that's part of the problem so I think we all need to do our part to see what we can we can do to
better future Generations now when you guys when we Rec when we recycle are you
guys putting them back into the products or are different products coming out of it because uh we have Paul fiser um he's
actually from the UK watching on YouTube and he said that he's noticed that when
um some of the products come back you know with recycled contents in them uh
the science behind it changes right and it's he he calls it that it's trash now
but I think what he means is just it's not what he's used to right so are these products going back into the new floors
or are you guys making other things out of them as well so let's talk a little bit about um residential carpet first
right where you really can Harvest everything so if you take a nylon s piece of residential carpet the carpet
fiber can go back into carpet fiber the polypropylene actually gets put back
into different polypropylene products so you actually turn it back into a pallet and then the
filler which is the calcium carbonate actually can go into um concrete into
the aggregate Arena so you can call it upcycling it you can call it down
cycling it it's it catch 22 on how you want to word it um what have we done this year you guys I think you been on a
call with me where we talked about lvt recycling flexible lvt right now
internally we don't have a process to take it back and turn it back into LBT
so instead we're upcycling it and we're making Automotive mats your all- weather
Automotive mats out of it so it is giving the product another life um and I think that is you know
ultimately the end game um your polyester is tricky you know the the the
carpet that's made out of water bottles gets incredibly incredibly tricky it is recycled in California but in the rest
of the 49 states it does wind up in the landfill wow I have a question and it
might be a little off track but um at what point uh for all of the recycling will the chemical composition of the
Recycled products that this is being turned into um be considered useless or
rendered useless um when when you say they're making floor mats is because they can no longer
break it down efficiently enough to use it uh for for other items is that just
trying to figure out like at what point does the recycling of the product stop and you hit the brick wall
so again I'm not a chemist nor am I an engineer so I you
know I I know enough to make myself dangerous um I would say to you that PBC
can be recycled up to eight times before it'll actually start to I believe lose
its Integrity call it maybe um nylon you
know if you guys haven't ever seen what aquafill um is doing here in in the
United States as well as what they do over in Slovenia is they'll take the nylon 6 and it's infinite so that fiber
can be turned back into fiber and turned back into fiber and back and back it's infinite so it'll just continue going on
um one of my biggest Hang-Ups when it came to polyester and listen guys taret has a residential line and it's
polyester okay so I mean you got to call a spade a spade you know I'm not trying to bash it it's just that polyester it
you know those old water bottles in my opinion and that's mine only should stay water bottles because again outside of
California that polyester carpet is going to the landfill so what was the point in that
we we made another product and now it's just going to wind up in the landfill and in some of those cases a lot of
that's multif family right so we all know that multif family what are we looking at three years four years Max
short life cycles for sure 100% sorry guys I'm just sharing
information here well I don't know if we lost Rachel
um but I would say that um was it Paul Daniel from uh UK
yep I my guess is he's talking specifically about recycled backings on
carpet tile because they can be uh more sensitive to Old adhesives and and
things I mean one of our rules is do not install over old glue just because old
carpti was there doesn't mean you can pick up a piece of that carpti and put a new piece down uh specifically if that old glue
was over uh existing broadloom back in the day you could do that uh obviously
milikin still says you can do that but most manufacturers say you don't go over
you know broad Loom adhesive with pressure sensitive there's a lot of issues from plasticizer migration and
all that stuff that can happen but so the caution there is don't take
up an old piece of carpet put down a new one but when that happens the Recycled
backings are are um we have some I have some personal experience with
this they they're not as forgiving little particular yeah you need to make
sure you're following the rules to the T removing all the old adhesive um primer or encapsulate the uh
residue that's remaining and then apply your new adhesive and apply your carpati
uh you got to be real careful when you're dealing with recycled backings and I think that's probably one of the
things that I've seen installers say you know this stuff is junk it's not it's
just way more particular it's got to be done exactly the way you don't have as
you know you have those products you can kind of figure out a way to move to get around some of the industry
recommendations or standards or whatever uh but recycle backing carpet tile uh
you don't want to you know try to get around anything remove that glue all the way to the concrete encapsulate it with the the
manufacturer's primer and then apply your new adhesive in your carpti so I'm
just making a big assumption there that that's what he's kind of referring to maybe it's because I personally have the
same same uh heartache from a similar uh situation
um that I'm I'm sure he's been through yeah he says safety floors but I don't know what they consider safety floors in
the UK so gotcha and then um like as far as the Recycled contents you know we
this was probably 10 years ago now where you know a manufacturer was like it's the best thing we started recycling here
comes the new product coming out and then they didn't change any of the installation specs and then things start
failing and it's almost like um a TR error when you're on the job site and
it's it could be something like that too to where the manufacturer thought that
things were going to go exactly the same way and it just doesn't and then you had
at least we do we we don't we're not we're not quiet right so we're going to go right to the manufacturer and say hey
this isn't working what what do we need to do now and that's I think that's what a lot of people need to do instead of
saying hey this is trash it's more or less hey this isn't working I want to
help you guys out with the solution because I don't want to see this failing all over the place yeah and that's a matter of documenting all the steps too
and say this isn't working where did we go wrong this is where what we've done
from step one till right now um and for the most
part I've done a fair amount of taret and and dealt with their recycle program
because we do Bank of Americas and for taret they their tarat one so I'm
familiar with palletizing all the old carpet and they take it back um I think
as an industry that process getting more streamlined could help
um you know you don't want a dealer who's committed to recycling things to
have to and this isn't always this isn't to say it's just taret or this happened
um just with taret but when we've recycled products in the past you can
have pallets sitting around for longer than you would like waiting to be picked
up and taken and I think that as an industry the better we get at this at
the um at the process of recycling the more that dealers will want to uh
participate and and um because it's
important to do this it is important that like if it can be recycled we should recycle it like don't just throw
things in the the landfill that can be recycled but in in practice and in the
real world if it's not streamlined people are so busy and and time is such
a commodity or such an important piece of our life that if if it's not
streamlined if if the if it's not easy people are not going to do it can you
guys still hear me y we can we can now you kind of uh went away from us there
for a moment okay um and you're you're absolutely right if it isn't easy I'm
gonna lose all of you so and I understand that and it isn't sometimes it's not easy and sometimes when there
isn't a full truckload it makes it incredibly difficult especially when there's some carpati coming out that I'm
really not quite sure what to do with it and then you get a Freight Quote and they tell you that you know from Ohio to
Phoenix is going to cost you $3,200 to move nine pallets and you're like okay hold on a minute like I really need to
think about this um so it it it can be challenging and you're right but the
more people we get involved and the more we can stream and build a program and
again even if it's across competitors I still think it's the right thing to
do um and I think that you guys are going to start to find that you're going to have more than just the banks
demanding that you recycle you're going to have more end users and more clients saying that they want to recycle their
products well and and some of projects that we come across um like some of the I want to say the Govern government
projects some of that is right in their specs it requires recycling um so and it
all obviously it all depends on what material we're taking up um but that's going to lead me to my next question is
are there incentives for the community for the flooring stores for installers
and clients um to look at the recycling option versus just throwing it in a a
dumpster you mean you mean outside the fact that you're say doing the right
thing outside of doing the right thing and and sending stuff to the Landfield that'll be there in 500 years correct I
mean I I'm coming from the the real world here right like some people want to have their name on something and
something for to show and some of the businesses or or larger corporations
where we go in and they have hundreds uh of hundreds and hundreds or thousands of square yards they want to not only are
they have their their environmental print is smaller but do they have something to show that they're
supporting is there a program they can sign up for and say Hey you know I own this many buildings and this is what
we've been doing in recycling um they they like adding that to the resume I'm not saying that everybody's like that
I'm saying I've been asked that question quite a bit is that's a fair that's a
fair question I mean you know like I care how do I show I care if I'm doing
it uh on my own accord and in the background some people you know want to
display their commitment to the environment so is there ways that the manufacturer can do some or are they I
guess that's a good question is manufacturers doing things that promote it uh or promote the companies
that are recycling in a positive manner is there anything like that Rachel um you know I think right now for
us I mean our biggest Accolade there is is you know is the certificate not only for the flooring contractor but right
for the end user sorry um that you've recycled um you know and I hesitate
because the last time we were on a a webinar we had a a contractor in
Missouri right that was doing everything without any state eppr bills or anything
along those lines because this was one of the core beliefs that the flooring contractor went on and it's gotten him
further business because everybody knows that he's going to recycle the product
so the facility managers will call him because they don't have to worry about it going to the landfill you do have epr
you know um you've got it passed in California you've got it passed in New York listen guys I think I may have you
know said this before but on a pallet of carpet tile that gets donated in California there's 35 cents a pound for
that do the math you you st and palti that carpet tile and donate it for to
restore or habitat or whomever give it away for free you have the opportunity
to potentially make some extra money um let alone you can get rid of it for free
in California you're not going to get charged to bring it anywhere so I mean there is still a savings um and like you
said before it is about doing the right thing but I I hear you incentives are always nice I get it and you want to
know what for those of you who have been around a long time you used to get paid to take it yeah I know that even tur
used to pay me 10 cents a pound to collect the stuff and unfortunately
those days are sort of gone that the
I'm sorry is that from was Dupont was that the old company they used to do that
um yes so you had honey well you had dupon um taret was paying like I said
years ago when I was collecting for Candice they were paying me 10 cents a pound on
cup wow so I mean but unfortunately those days are gone
umel am I know you're getting ready to go and I just had one last question uh I
could tell from the background that you're probably uh going to have to jump off but one last question how can we
regionally impact so we're talking California New York we're in the middle of the country these guys are up in
Grand Rapids Michigan what can we do uh that is it getting local recycling would
that improve like what would your dream be uh from a recycling standpoint
because you're obviously very passionate about it what what could we do from a local perspective to lower the cost of
of you know shipping a pallet to California for example is there local is
there ways we can lean on our government from a local perspective to be able to recycle in a local manner or is that
just the technology requires it to go out there well it just again it's going to depend on the product I would say to
you that I think everybody needs a win right so I think that you guys need to
maybe consider taking on a project and seeing how easy you know it can be um
yes localized warehouse space would be amazing right so that when you do have that smaller 500 square yard job or
thousand square yards you've got a spot to put it in where we don't we can come and swing in and pick up an entire
truckload versus just coming in for a couple of petts um you know but I do
have friends all over the states so that do do some collections like I like we've
talked about before in Indianapolis there's a company that does some carpet collection um and there's somebody in
Ohio that does it um so you guys just sort of just need to reach out and just keep asking me questions and I'll help
you however I possibly can because you're right I do believe in it incredibly passionate um your local
governments may be able to provide grants you know there's a lot of them that are doing some stuff with recycling
right now that they may be able to provide you some grants where you can either maybe get some racking within
your warehouses to maybe stack you know stack carpet tile or Gaylord boxes or something along those lines so I mean
you're you're right there's probably some options there um I am GNA have to hop off thank you so much for inviting
me for this you know to this and I was happy that I was a was last minute but it worked out perf
thank thank you for joining us Rachel we appreciate your expertise in this matter because we we had a lot of questions and
and you did great answering them so we appreciate you coming on and safe travels thank you so much and feel free
to reach out anytime you guys you guys now so so expect a call from me you got
it sounds good thanks so much all right bye
Rachel so pretty awesome that was some good information that I I didn't I might not
have thought of so I I I appreciate her joining last minute I got some notes here so yeah I I think that it's it's
there's some interesting nuggets in there one being you know is are there
grants in your local area where you are you could be incentivized so it may be worth something looking into we I wrote
that down so certainly worth looking into um you know what I was saying
earlier and I think Rachel got it was you don't have to be uh you know a
climate change you know that we're so divided on some of these issues in
America this one in particular if it can be recycled it just makes sense to
recycle it so if we can find ways that are localized and easy maybe you get a
grant that would pay for a warehouse where you and some competitors can go p ize their products and then call a truck
once a month or every other month or whatever to come grab a whole you know a
whole storage unit or you know a whole Warehouse full of the stuff so there's
there's certainly I think some incentives from promoting yourself as a
recycler sounds like she's got a dealer in Missouri that's successful at
promoting yourself as look we're going to recycle everything that we can so less of your products are going to end
up in the landfill so there's probably some hay to be made there from a marketing perspective not to turn it
into just that but there's obviously like some maybe some possibilities there
where um you know a lot of big corporate entities want to know their stuff's not just going into the landfill to sit for
500 years plus you know so um I think there's some some uh opportunity there
you got to work with obviously Crews and and everybody to palletize things um for
tarat one when we do the uh Bank of America for them we just palletize it
and put it in the back lot and then they come and pick it up now it's not always
and she spoke of this when it's not a full truck truckload it can take a while for that stuff to get picked up so uh
possibly a localized collection point in each City could solve that problem and
have a a greater impact that's just my thoughts oh that's that's you're
absolutely right I just wonder why they haven't talked to any of the local uh like uh uh recycling companies do they
have any spots allocated to that if if it's lucrative and they can make money some of these places might jump onto it
um well I think the only way they'd be able to make money from what she was saying is if they
actually like resold it or something but you know she had an emphasis on donating
other than that you're paying the freight to get it to where it needs to go yeah but I mean that's why I asked
her about the product because protect all recycled product right you can create an entire business
off of one you know one company's waste going into another product that yeah
that can go somewhere else yeah there's clothing clothing lines it's that way
100% recycled products as well you know I think we we have um you know one of my
purposes for this podcast in for this topic was you
don't because I've mentioned it uh to other people and they're like dude take
that climate change crap somewhere else and I'm like you don't have to be some activist to believe in just recycling
the most basic items that we are consuming or you know using I should say
so I just wanted to get you know a a perspective that if it can be we should
probably try to find the most effective way to recycle things that we can uh she
gave some great advice uh you know engage um talk to her
I think that you know a good follow-up um podcast here in the near future would
be let's see what it's like what if we both both of our companies do a project
it's not driven by the specs we just recycle it and report back on our
experience that could be you know very telling and uh I'm I'd do
it I think we're gonna have to check into it I mean um the Project's gotta be it's Gotta Be Right It's gotta be the
right one for it um absolutely yeah well I think it's like in the bid Market it
may be hard because you know they're focusing on that low bid but if you're going in somewhere and you're that's
where the marketing comes in right hey guys like this is what it sets us apart we're going to recycle your stuff it's
not going to hit the landfill and that could be the Tipping Point on why would we go with someone that's just going to
fill the landfill when this is only you know a couple percent higher and then
they can see why that percentage is there as well like this is only this much higher it's because they're going
to be recycling so be really cool to send your end user a report once it delivered
too yeah you know showing them that you actually did recycle it you saved this
much you you prevented this much curs Inogen to enter the atmosphere you know that that's a that's actually a pretty
cool point right there like yeah I I wonder how much
um emphasis you know I've got some clients in mine I won't mention but I I I
wonder uh if we did that how how
how much it would matter to them but it also feels good to do the right thing and if you can and it doesn't cost you
an arm and a leg and that that has to I mean the economics of this thing is exact I mean that's why she she stated
that it's difficult it's the economics are difficult and uh but if it can be
economically incentivized by getting clients that care about the the the fact that you
recycle and I think most um people people I think most people are down for
recycling right I mean it's not like again you don't have
to be full-on climate change activists to to believe in recycling this is the
most basic um uh almost fundamental just
idea of keeping stuff out of the ocean and keeping your landfills with less
product in them it's something that we do at home without even thinking about it now like like my we my kids do it I
do it um I remember going to school and it became a big thing when I was in elementary but now we have trash and we
have recycle like yeah there's my wife posted on there like a list of
everything that that's accepted to go in the recycling and what's not so and it's just simple things like that
it's like is it g to make a difference absolutely even if it's just this big of a difference it's making a difference
right drop in the bucket is still a drop in the bucket but you could prevent a couple of those drops throughout your time I think that's yeah well we ought
to keep exploring how how it's uh I'm going to actually try try to find the right project to do it on as well and
just see see what the experience is outside of being in tet's umbrella which
is what it was when we're doing the Bank of America you know you tear it out and it's required that that product get
returned um so getting a hold of a carrier and going through the process
and Reporting back what that's like I think uh I think that would be good for our
audience yeah so I do want to mention a couple of things this is a off topic but
we're getting ready to uh to do our Sim scholarship again at go Carrera so just
uh from now I believe it's through I would have to get the exact date but I
believe it's through um the end of this year
um that we are doing the the Sim scholarship again so we'll start um you
know taking applications uh oh I just was read uh through December
18th so we'll be taking applications for that if you are not sim uh I mean we'll
give you we'll we'll give you all the details and the upcoming episodes as well as on our website and everything
about I was just there like I just went through the two days to sim and it is a
lot of information so um definitely see yeah look at
that we we don't just talk about it we're being about it right that's what we're we're here for it's I'm not just
going to say that it's a like he's been a SIM for like three years now right yeah almost three years so it's it's a
lot of great information a lot of great people and I mean it anything that you can
learn any little nuggets that you can take away are are really beneficial and it is very very much focused on the
commercial aspect of things so um there was a a gentleman in in there and he was
like they just threw me into an office position I have no idea what I'm doing
and the amount of attention that he was able to get oneon-one to make sure he understood everything that was going on
was it was crazy to see how much they actually cared about him understanding
everything that his job that they just threw him in entailed so I mean if you're brand new into it it's definitely
great information and we've been doing it for years and it's still great information still great information yeah
and and if you're an installer you get a glimpse it's it's a good precursor to
maybe going into your company and becoming you know one of the uh project
man managers or an installation manager it gives you insight into
what the office kind of why the office has to make different decisions I I just
think it's good even if an installer wins it make sure you go to it and and take a lot of notes um just a little bit
we'll announce the winner on January 9th it goes live the scholarship will go
live on Friday so next week we'll have everything all the links and everything so uh
so yeah we'll be able to uh give you that information next week again it goes
through December 18th and we announced the winner on January 9th so it's all
happening real fast uh it's our commitment to trying to provide at least one scholarship a year to you know our
our audience and and hopefully uh at the end of the day I know that if last
year's was really well received and uh the winner you know we've had a little
bit of contact afterwards it sounded like you know got everything that you could dream out of getting going to a
class like that and you just echoed that too Daniel so yeah I mean it's it's a great class and like you said even if an
installer gets it instead of someone that is in an office position you can actually the translation between what an
installer doesn't see what goes on in the office could really benefit the installer side too and then it just
gives you that that push that like like I didn't you know I didn't realize that all this went on so let me be more
mindful yeah of you the office staff I I went from the field to the office and uh
I I know that the way the field thinks about the office and you
know it was a big learning experience and you can shortcut that learning experience if you do become Sim because
like you said it kind of bridges that the two and let you know kind of what actually goes on how much
work it takes to bid a job win a job order a job track materials set up
deliveries do all these things make sure the job's ready all the stuff that goes into getting one project and um I think
it's it's overlooked by the installation Community frankly right um I know I did
as an installer I know both of you guys have mentioned that before and you're uh installer so I think there's something
to this like we we don't know what the office goes through if you've been in the field your entire life and you win
this thing you're going to get some really good information so I would I I wish the best to everybody and and uh
we're we're just really happy to be able to offer that again this year so yeah that's that's awesome we appreciate that
like the industry needs uh needs more people to to step up like
that because what what a lot of people don't realize is like I said that guy went from an installer to an office
position but as an in installer just looking at it like a lot of these installers and we've talked about it
before just don't have that that type of capital to just drop everything and go do a class or and pay for that class at
the same time so it's just alleviating a lot of that stress so appreciate uh everything that that you do Paul thank
you yeah we are are happy to do it and and love the Sim program love the FCA I
and and what they do over there um so to close out our topic I
think you know understanding that that that often the right thing is not the easiest way
so have a little patience if you go through this and start trying to recycle some of your products but take Rachel's
advice and talk to yourselves rep and find the you know the get get in the
them getting you to the right person uh a lot of times will uh lower your
headache uh quite a bit and I'm going to go through it outside of the taret umbrella and and see what the experience
is like and and uh yeah hopefully here in the next six months or so depending on what project we can do it on we'll be
able to report back some of the some of the experience that that you know and the headaches and as well as the it
feels good I can tell you that when when you're not s sending stuff to the dump
and you're not throwing in your dumpster and you are sending it back somewhere where it's going to get reused there is a good feeling that comes along with
that so and like uh like T she said I don't know if she mentioned it on here
or not but in uh they do take other people's LBT too as long as you know
it's not the rigid core stuff so what she call it flexible LBT is what she called it so you know just save up your
lvt and tarto take and start turning it into a Flor
awesome well we might get uh Rachel's information and share that on uh in our
description on YouTube and mentioning YouTube if you're watching this on YouTube or one of our social channels
consider giving us a like give us some comments let us know uh what you think
about Recycling and how you feel it's impacted the industry give us your feedback it's always welcomed and and we
thrive on that stuff we read all the comments and uh try to incorporate that back into the podcast in in later
episodes so consider giving us a like And subscribe this is our first time uh
actually streaming on the actual hoto podcast page too so yay yeah it's my
first time that page there you go you got you got other ways and means of of
uh consuming and I I hope everybody uh finds value in what we bring
um on a week toe topic basis we sometimes take comments sometimes it's just a topic that that comes up from a
show and then uh brainstorming so we come up with topics as best we can your
comments really do uh kind of Drive some of that so if you if you have a topic that you'd like us to bring on an expert
and uh chat through that with them in this conversational style and you get
value out of this then you know drop us a comment tell us what you want to hear about and if you're an expert drop a
comment tell us yourself and and so so everyone knows we are all about education and everything because we
preached that I just said that I was at the Sim last week or the week before and Crystal's actually over at Nora right
now at their certification so yeah um poor poor baby sister this is her first
time traveling by herself so she was like I hope I don't get [Laughter]
lost she doesn't have is Crystal directionally
challenged I think she was worried about navigating airports by herself because usually when we're when we're with her
she's just right behind us like doesn't even ask questions she's just right there this way follow you right in the
[Laughter] bathroom all right guys well thanks for joining this week it's a pleasure as
always I love these uh these uh times when we get to get together and just wrap about the industry today's topic
was I'm not an expert in and so thank you guys for reaching out to Rachel and getting her on I think that uh her
Insight on you could feel her passion for it but
then she had you know she was able to articulate good quality um answers and
and and how we can go about you know improving how much product we do
recycle I I got to say her uh passion for it was somewhat contagious so you
can feel it you can feel it right through yeah all right guys well thank you as
always we'll see you next week and uh for all those it's every every Tuesday
at 3 pm Central come join
The Huddle - Episode 70 - Flooring Horror Stories
This week the guys get into the spooky spirit to discuss some seriously spooky stories of flooring failures.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up Flor and family welcome to the Huddle we're here every Tuesday 3 pm
Central to discuss maintaining Ford progress in your flooring career with me as always Mr Daniel and
Jose Gonzalez the preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan today we got a um less serious
topic but very serious in practice uh depending on how you're
looking at it yeah and uh I'm sure all of us uh installers have some of these
but it's flooring failures and horror stories so you know let's honor the old
Halloween and and uh get scared by remembering some you know uh I've got a
few catastrophes to share so uh if you've been in this business for any
length of time you probably have some too so if you're watching us live on Facebook or uh one of the channels uh
chime in tell us some of your stories uh if you watch us on YouTube later you know share them in the comments uh
consider giving us a like And subscribe it's always appreciated and it helps us to continue doing what we do uh
we we do this for for the industry and uh you guys are our fuel when you
comment and let us know what you're thinking and give us some good feedback and Heck if if you don't like it give us
a thumbs down it all matters baby so we need that feedback too right gotta get
better all right well I was uh considering uh you know having a guest
today like another flooring contractor to share their horror stories but uh um
I don't know that they were so um willing or excited as I
am to share some of them so uh let's get right to it guys what what
first off when did you first started what year did you guys first start stalling floring 98 98 for me well I started
right after you did in that summer so I started 95 we're about the same era here so and how long before you had your
First Holy beep moment
98 it was because I started in January of 98 and I believe it was like right
you had plenty of time left in the year to yeah yeah I did and it was it was a
long long time but you started with that one I'll get started I thought we'd come
out the gate with your with our first all right so so we were we were doing um
it was like a multi-purpose room uh at a at a church I believe right and it was
all uh what I was told was sheet vinyl right all right so we started installing
it and I'm just you know I was just a helper at that point and we got everything done we got everything welded
it looked pretty good um and you know we knocked it out in about four or five days uh then a c couple days later got a
phone call saying that it was failing and couldn't figure out why um so they went there and took a look at it and I
went there with them and I remember them cutting it open at a seam and just being able to lift it right up off the floor
it was waves everywhere I was like you know what could be happening and you know and the
argument was we did it exactly like we do it every other time I'm just doing what I was as what I was told come to
find out it was lenium not sheet vinyl so we we did it exactly like we do
sheet vinyl every time and I tell you what everything about it was wrong The Notches the the uh open time flash time
um yeah didn't wet set it oh it um
lolium well go ahead and tell them the difference just for the tile guys or the carpet guys out there tell them the
difference between the two because there's a pretty significant difference here and and uh right so lenum is going
to have a Juke backing on it and it's kind of that juk needs something to grab
right so you got to wet set it with a vinyl you're letting the adhesive depending on what type of vinyl
right but you know if you're talking about homogeneous vinyl it's vinyl all the way through so if you wet set it
that adhesive is never going to set up depending on what's underneath it so it just depends on what you're
working with but typically you need larger trial size onium you go in wet uh go wet roll it
yeah I can imagine you use the a 33 second or something not trial on it yeah
yeah we used them everything about it was wrong and so what you do we ended up
having to cut it apart at every scene and we were actually able to roll it
back out of the adhesive in place scrape all the adhesive off start from scratch
roll it back into the adhesive the right way and I I do remember there being a
couple double welds on the scams I mean it definitely wasn't my proudest
moment right but I wasn't in control of that one either but that is what made me start reading everything is knowing that
my my name was associated with that knowing that how many yards or square foot yards were we talking here well
this was that because this was one of the Summers where I was actually working so I was there I wasn't I don't think I
was there for the first part but I think I was there for the second part yeah um
if you can imagine like a Elementary size gymnasium a multi purpose room
that's about the size it was I think it might have been one of the band rooms or something like that several hundred yards yeah it was it was not small it
was not small by any means I tell you what it pretty quick the second time you
had such poor bond that you were able to roll it back and scrape up the glue and
reinstall it and it looked good afterwards right aside of a few saddle seams here
and there yeah yeah you know I don't remember every step along the way I do
remember it wasn't it didn't look like a brand new install the second time around didn't
look like a brand new install the first time around um but lesson learn learn to
read the adhesive learn to read the instructions that come with the roles just save yourself the hassle oh
man I just uh I mean I have a lot a lot more than just that one but that was like the first one well I figured we'd
start with the first one I mean you know the the it's out of the gate and I think
it most of this is going to speak very well to what we preach on this channel which is get trained you know proper
proper education and with the proper amount of experience so that you can
actually absorb the stuff um so I started out in carpet in
95 about 6 months later uh I was put in charge of a job it
was a high school at the time it was the largest High School in
Kansas 11,000 yards of carpet U mainly in
classrooms and it was a J&J piece I remember and it was a double cut and I
met with the tech rep and they brought this little brand new cutter it was a
glass looking cutter we we have tons of them now but it was brand new back at
the time and it was a double cutter so I went through and learned how to use
that I was blowing through this job literally we were laying five six hundred yards a day me and two guys just
killing it I thought I'm an installer dude I got this all figured out I am an
installer and at the end of that thing the job turned out well other than it
had a little bit of a fading issue in the carpet that the school ended up accepting but at the end of the day I
really felt like I was a full I thought I was the the man I had installed all
that carpet I'd only been doing it six months I thought yeah so I get put on a
I will not mention the client because they are actually still they are a client of mine now uh as my own company
at Stuart and Associates but um I went to do a very large Gathering Room like a
big conference room at a manufacturer's
place I had I thought you double cut everything baby I thought that's that's
how this thought that's how carpet was installed and uh it was a almost a solid
black heavy big textured Loop and um
yeah so the the installer That was supposed to be with me there got sick and and my
boss was like you got it no no no direction again this is
these are horror stories for a reason so never anybody listening don't think you're an installer after five six
months of of learning how to double cut and that's your only experience so I go
in here and lay the entire job and it was probably 6 or 700 yard room and I
double cut every seam it looked fantastic I thought as soon as I was
done with it and I walk away you come back and everything like everything
mushroomed it was um it was the worst looking seams you
could imagine uh the the thickness the other part was the
the first carpet I had installed was a really tight Loop and um you know when
you double cut that it stayed together everything stayed tight seam sealed it it looked good this the seam I mean it
it mushroomed and there was seam seal everywhere it looked good until it dried
up I I don't I cannot tell you um how
terrible it was but at the end of the day I double cut every single one of them damn seams and it should have been
row row butt um and it mushrooms so bad that you could see the
backing on every seam and I thought I seem sealed enough I had no
idea and you just can't double cut a carpet like that so told my CFI guys out
there you know uh there's different ways of cutting seams and and uh you probably
learn that in R1 but uh because I was never trained I thought that's how you did every single thing I thought you
just overlapped cut it some of it I was cutting with my knife uh but that that glass cutter got
some work on that project as well there was there was a project that we were
doing nights and they we were doing a bunch of uh Jenny Craigs oh like when
they were a thing and we were doing some and there was another crew that was
doing some same company right and we we were doing ours and they
were like why is it taking you guys so much longer to do yours and they're knocking theirs out so one time we had
to go visit one of their job sites and what they're doing is that what you said they're just boom boom double cut and go
and it was a half inch pattern and it was not good carpet yeah oh man yeah so
yeah lesson learned there I ended up uh getting uh demoted to help her again uh
which I should have never been promoted but um and by the way my promotion did not
bring any extra money so nor did the demotion but they decided probably don't
let me go at my own accord because what it's a bad recipe to put a guy like me
that'll just go at things like he's killing snakes and thinks he knows something I'm gonna go after it and I
did completely uh had to replace every
square inch of that carpet and I glued it down like this was still solvent-based adhesive so uh it was a
nightmare to get up that well you've done a a tear up on new carpet I'm sure
uh at some point this is brand new and stuff the the we had to wait on another
I don't know two weeks to tear it up because they were going to have some events in there and they they were like
we got to have these events so you have to come back over the weekend we had six
guys in there glue was everywhere I'm not sure which was more of a nightmare actually the tear up or
the day after I installed it and I thought I had knocked it out of the park you know uh or a few days after it was
installed so that's my very very first and that
didn't take long I mean that was six months after I start after I
started started six eight months after I started flooring some trusted you after six months I tell you what yeah yeah
that's what happens without the proper training so and like you said I think we've all
been there where you go in and you're like looks great and then someone else
walks in there and it's like what did you do like yeah and I
I I thought when my boss said like it was totally up and then I messed up the
whole job I thought maybe it just needs tractored to
a Brian this guy that taught me I mean maybe it just needs some extra tractor and well it needed a heck of a lot more
than that I'll tell you that get a yarn stuck in the wheel in the it was
yeah so that's my very first uh carpet story but I I got one for sheet vinyl I
was doing a assisted living and this was kind of before moisture it
was right about the time all all the moisture problems really started coming up like I don't think as an industry we
really knew I was probably three four or five years in at this point and I don't
know that the industry really knew uh they certainly hadn't gotten the
chemistry down on the water-based adhesives yet um but also moisture
testing was not like done on every job it wasn't as big of a a a a requirement
I guess it just didn't seem like it was that big a deal now that could be because I was a still a newbie at five
years or whatever I was still pretty new in the industry uh but also our our company that I worked for at the time
they just didn't care about that kind of thing anyway come to find
out we we installed all this sheet vinyl and all the first floor sheet
vinyl the contractor calls me I had started my company by this point by the way so it was my client and um client
calls and says there's something really wrong there's all these lines and
like all this stuff it's like the adhesive is mushing or something
so we get out there I go look at it and it wasn't horrific quite
yet uh so I told him well you know it'll dry out I had no idea
obviously it didn't dry out by the time we went back H he calls and he says hey
it's kind of leveled out but it seems like it's just floating we get out there and you could
literally slap the V and kind of see the water move
underneath it we cut it open and it's just a flood of water coming through it
was the worst still today probably the worst moisture issue that we've that I've ever
experienced um back then you kind of got away with a lot we the owner ended up paying for it
or the GC did accept their responsibility for the the um you know
slab being wet it was a new construction project um but and they had some
irrigation issues that was adding water but come to find out it was kind of under the water table so there was a lot
of problems that you know kind of pointed it that way that was it was the
uh gc's uh responsibility but we never moisture tested it
and at the end of the day it every square inch of it had to be torn up we
didn't do mitigation at the time they there was just a few companies that was doing that at that point and there was
only a couple of products that you could use I mean we're talking early
2000s and uh so it come we tore all the vinyl up dry sucked all the water up and
when I tell you water it had completely emulsified the adhesive 100% it it was
like just colored water under there so we got it all up that vacuumed uh
vacuumed up all the water then they came in and blasted did
mitigation and uh leveled it and then we came back in and laid vinyl again but
lesson there is moisture test yeah one moisture test with that type of slab
would have been it would have been clear as day that uh there's a problem long
ahead of having to go through that so from
a from a uh expense standpoint that's probably
one of the highest I have some others um but that's probably one of the highest
and I have a more recent one that I'll share in a moment but I don't want to Ste all the fun I know I don't know
where Daniel it it's on you guys now it's uh the ping pong has been hit back to you I
got for you and it's similar you're reminding me of it actually is uh we were working out at a hospital out in
Carson City doing um a basement and uh it had a bunch of borders and patterns
that you know that that swooped and switched down the corridor dude it looked pristine it was it took you know
a lot of a lot of layout a lot lot of artistry a lot of hard work and concentration making templates so that
way I can duplicate patterns uh and then you know a week later get a phone call you know this is after we're
done get a phone call it's like there's some weird things that are on the vinyl we don't know how to get them off it
looks like looks like somebody was writing on the vinyl how do you get stains off so we go there take a look at
it and look down and sure enough it's uh we wrote the the drop lengths on the
back of the vinyl right so because of plants and Sizer migration everything
went through so was all backwards numbers and writing and and it was red and it was black um not only that is
there was no moisture test done this was a old slab old building so we had high moisture content hydrostatic pressure on
top of that so the first thing they noticed was our marker the second thing they noticed when we started pulling it
back was the high moisture um and then the the the pressure and then the GC actually took
accountability for that one as well we did not do a moisture test test we did not do this we did not do that they
never so when that job when it rained the vinyl would swell up that's Y and
then once the rain stopped and then it dried out it would lay back flat like nothing had ever happened and and that
was that was when when we came to the conclusion you know and as far as uh um having the knowledge
that I have now I didn't have it back then but I remember talking to the GC and just asking a series of questions
and that did come out and I was like and I go look outside and I'm like
yeah we're actually running downhill and so what I said man this I I know that we
wrote out it with Margaret but I don't think it's my fault that this is failing like that so uh that was quick note on
that for all your sheet vinyl guys that maybe not know you you probably do but
um marker or things like that you put it on the don't don't put it on the back your
vinyl for sure but don't also don't Mark your concrete with Sharpie uh make sure you're looking for
marker for any resilient is our new rule yeah we if we only thing in our pouches
and on our person is a pencil whatever we're doing resilient there's no if ants butts I don't even like to use the the
colored pencils Like Home Depot because I just don't want to risk it right like
yeah just don't want to risk it and uh another idea another thing that that
brings up is uh I remember a job that had uh this purple blotchiness
underneath the vinyl in every room we did a bunch of patient rooms and under
the under the cabinet the it was a ada8
cabinet so underneath there in every single room there was some level of like
this blotchy kind of stain and I was like I don't know what's going going on you
guys had to have dropped something on it what it ended up being is the
plumbers purple um primer had dripped down on
every one of them rooms where he was I guess he was just right there doing it
gets on the concrete I had no we had no idea that that would go through through
the patch through the top through the vinyl and just not it was like it was a
picture taken that's how clear it ended up being once that stain worked all the way
through yeah and we we're finding that a lot with uh cutback adhesive right
because they're like we'll just go in there and throw some patch on throw the
vinyl and in one of the hospitals that we've been doing work in it's all bleeding up and it just it's puddles
right where it's super thick and that'd be the first areas that come and then it it's like looks like pools everywhere
and on uh during coid we were doing a brand new hospital and they
were self- leveled everything and then they were going in and doing some
ceiling work setting stuff up for um like the MRI machines and stuff that were going
in and they did their layout on the ground in
marker and there we had rubber going in a white
rubber and I went the and I'm like come and look at this he was like I told them
not to use marker like this is one of the gc's that will will contact us and they know how
particular resilient is so they're like what needs to happen what can't we do and they base
their I think I don't I forget what they call it but like their handbook that they have for their employees and
contractors they'll come to us and say hey can you review this and let us know what what needs to be changed what can
we do what can't we do so that's one of their rules is on their job sites they tell people no marking on the floor with
markers yeah yeah somebody else did the self- level right yeah yeah so we didn't see it until it bled through um will
bleed I I I'm not sure how far that stuff will bleed but I bet our our skim
on those rooms now this is a different chemical obviously but that primer came
through a good three coat skim coat probably a 16th of an inch thick or maybe maybe
even closer to an eighth inch and it went all the way through that and all the way through the
vinyl you know what sucks too is like when when we were learning to encapsulate things like that like like
the cutback go if the patch wasn't approved we'd prime it and then and then prep over the primer it was still
finding a way through so now some some markers too now we just grind we got to grind all this and one of the biggest we
used to use um clear spray to spray our lines down and stuff I thought that was
the best idea and then we went through like the foro class and they're like that's a foreign material on your floor
now that's is it doing you any good it's a bond breaker like it's only as good as
what you just sprayed on there now and he's talking about we used hairspray forever that's yeah so that's expensive
too but we use the uh the inverted marking spray just to clear one is what I used saw somebody using it I was like
oh that's clear yeah so my marks don't disappear sweet go buy a case great
idea yeah it was for a minute we we did it all the time DCT I still try and come
in pretty soon I think he has some stories too and then uh Dave Garden was
wondering how long you were an installer on your last story on your sheet viny
story okay uh well was about five years in and I had been doing vinyl for
probably a year and I think that's the misconception too in our industry is
people are like oh you've been doing it for five years you should already know which in some cases yeah but in other
cases it's like you're working with a new material it's like if I go to a job and
I'm doing ceramic I'm not going to know 100% of everything just like I do on uh
like resilient but I would ask questions to someone that does know what they're
doing before I go and do something yeah I think that's probably the biggest thing that changed for me was uh I quit
being so damn egotistical and started asking questions when I two after a few
failures I started learning like I need to ask someone who actually knows if I don't and realize that I probably don't
know it wasn't until years in that I became what I would say pretty dog on
good sheet vinyl installer um carpet installer that kind of stuff
but that was after training and and plenty of experience and again I worked
for a company that it it was just like well he he did this
job once send him out there he'll do it all right he'll figure it out and
uh so needless to say we went through quite the
um quite the large amount of the hard lessons not not the lessons you learn
when you go to a good you know flooring installation course the kind that cost you money yeah right that that's how I
learned how to do flash cove myself was he ended up quitting and then we had an
entire new medical building with a bunch of Flash Cove and they were like oh you worked
with Jose so you're on this project now you must know how to do it since you guys are related you must you'll do fine
and and that's I mean I pretty much had to teach myself but it that's what I did I did this was what year was it at this
point 2005 yeah yeah I was probably 26 so you
were 20 so yeah I would say maybe 2006 2007 something like that and it's like
all right I did a bunch of reading there was no Facebook groups and stuff like we have now and
it's as far as I know it turned out fine but I definitely didn't do it right I can tell you
that well that's that's the uh that's another tricky thing is
like sometimes you can do it wrong and it as it looks good and somehow it works out yeah well and and then you do you do
it wrong and then that it's those times that it comes back to bite you you know
what I mean that's subjective too right like if you don't know you're doing it wrong then then it must be right it
looks right yeah dude I had no clue on either one of the two I mentioned
especially the carpet I had no clue that I didn't know how to run a row what are you talking about running a row
like to me you over I thought you cut off a little bit of Salvage measure over
make sure you got two inches run this magical cutter down this carpet and you
got a good seam you know that was just how I thought the the whole industry worked that's the need for for uh you
know proper training yeah education period you're right yeah so I got one more and this isn't
necessarily just a uh install error but maybe a little lesson on what not to do
on the back side of it so we did uh a multi-level uh apartment building
basically and it was on a it had a uh you know
sound sound barrier underlayment under the lvt and we installed both products and
it looked great and then they had a few floods uh the windows
leaked and um so obviously like most of the floor
just came up it just problem they filed you know whatever the
GC told us to find what's you know replace the bad stuff so we went in tore
up and I was not installing at the time uh by this time we had other installers
but they the manager on the job told our installers just take up what's what's uh
what's bad what's floating or what's not stuck and then pull it up and replace
it replace that and then few weeks later more of it
comes up few weeks later more of it comes up few weeks later more of it few
weeks later the stuff we replaced was coming up the lesson here
is the moisture had gotten into the building into nooks and crannies and I'm
talking a flood I'm talking real bad rain event that you know was Major water
event um stop make your GC identify the problem and direct you
on what to replace and make sure that's in writing that's been a ma that was a
major problem it's been nothing but a headache it took forever to get anywhere
on resolution and although that's not my
install error it and it wasn't really an install error except for an a error in
judgment and you know replacing just going in taking and we left the this is
probably a problem uh but left the underlayment that was that had gotten wet and installed right back over it so
there there was there was now that was by direction of the GC as well but my
point here is you have to stop and make make them tell you exact what to do and
then what to replace or what to what what needs fixed and then you uh can
follow that up with uh you know your your plan of action and writing better
yet tell them to do all the demo and you come back moisture test and provide
moisture testing results and then if ready install but that was probably the
most expensive uh problem that we've ever had
and it was an error in judgment like we should not have been we're not building envelope experts my manager at the time
was a ex tie salesman you know that I turned into a flooring guy like these
you can't expect even if he was a professional flooring installer he's not a building envelope expert he doesn't
know the the migration of water through an entire building uh we can understand
a little bit of it has it works through a slab but not a multi-level concrete
building right and I think that's the like what you're talking about when
you don't know compared to when it happens when you do know it's kind of different right because you're like hey
I'm gonna go over here and just do whatever I think needs to be done when you do know what's going on that's when
you there was another hos a hospital project the
main the main main uh pipe for the water
feed had a a solder that failed and it was we already installed some of it we
already installed the hallway and we were going into the rooms they had we had a bladder layer the concrete had
barrier one in it so it's not going to go into the concrete right but that blot
layer and it's like there was probably 50 people pushing brooms of
water to whatever drains we could find in the showers and stuff like that and
there was so much water in there the GC pretty much came up to me and he says what do we have to do from here I think
that's kind of the level that you're you're looking for right you're let me make some phone calls let me see what
this prep manufacturer says let me see what the flooring man manufacturer says and then we'll go from there and it's
like you know that's what I did I made the calls they said this is what you have to do I made them put a
dehumidifier in every single room and I think they had three in the hallway the hallway was probably only like 50 foot
long so I mean and it was running for a week before I Ste foot back in there and
then you have to start doing some destructive tests I'm like I got to start pulling up tiles and seeing what we're dealing with
underneath and Luckily everything that you know I told them to do they did and
and everything actually turned out really good water was everywhere it
survived it's right wow it it was Nora though it's a wet adhesive and when you
go through the class they'll basically tell you you install it right do
whatever you want with water it's going to be fine right and that's exactly it like I was struggling pulling up the
pieces that were flooded still so oh I think um or we have preferred flooring
Tik Tock video of water just pouring into one of the job sites yes and they told me it anywhere but it was already
up and people were liking it so I had to leave it up I did like any logos that were
anywhere are not visible yeah it was uh they said hey it flooded did you see
the video what video oh my good like that's for real like right now yeah
so did did did did you have to replace any of it or did it all most of it I
didn't have to replace any of it the entire blad layer dried out with the dehumidifiers and we
were good to go yeah this would be was that a one- story
situation yeah this luckily this happened on the main floor and not the
second floor because we we did the second floor and moved on to the main floor yeah so a lot of the uh on the previous
job I was just talking about the they couldn't believe that moisture would
stay in the concrete you know afterwards levels you know right several
floors above the I was like yeah you know moisture actually travel up columns and stuff guys I mean we've tested
concrete slabs elevated concrete slabs and at the column lines
you'll get you can get a spike in moisture we've seen it plenty of times so yeah anyway good old moisture stories
well that I think that's the misconception is people think that moisture is just water but they don't take into consideration that there's
Vapor coming out of the earth 100% of the time yeah all day every day yeah
well I was gonna pull up some some good old uh Facebook because I I see on
Facebook's uh you know the different room all these disaster stories but
um decided that wasn't probably the I I didn't want to like have anybody called
out but I seen a lot of like emulsified adhesives and things like that as I was
going through so moisture is like still one of those biggest items you got to pay attention to being more educated
today than I ever was uh when I installed about moisture um you know
understanding the adhesives um you know you almost have to be part chemist in
flooring anymore and understand what does what and how to prep correctly and which type of patch to use in this
situation with this adhesive and so study up know what you're installing uh
that's your first defense and make sure you're trained make sure you're you've got the
education uh that goes along with your experience it'll make you really good um
I sure wish I would have I would say don't be afraid to ask your reps your Tech Reps for um a little bit of Adesa
of some prep material so you can test it out yourself um you know because you might not like it you know you might
someone might send something that you're not familiar with and and you right away you don't like it because of the way it
you is calling for you to mix it or how to use it so you just dismiss it you
don't pay attention to the details after that you're like oh this is crappy anyway we had a tech right in here was in here last week M maybe it wasn't the
tech rep maybe it was the sales rep but he was like I'm going to leave these uh this is our our new skim Co I want you
guys to test it out and I was like oh yeah we got some carpet coming up and he just looks at us and he's like we always
test underneath carpet we do not test under resilient under resilient it's we're using what's what is good what we
know is going to um you know what's funny maybe think about this nightmare
on a project it was a multi-level building when you said that and we were doing electrical closets in rubber tile
and I remember we started on the the lower level and all of these uh electrical closets were were lined up
all the way up right because the conduit came up through the penetrations and I remember telling uh the gentleman that
that was with us to make sure that he used like expandable foam and taped everything off so when we self- leveled
it wasn't going down he said he did I mean he took a lot of time and I just remember that phone
call like all it takes is dude we have we have to get here and clean all this up and sure enough all that self-
leveler that was a low spot and everything went that way from like the third or fourth floor down all the
conduit that was finished painted on the electrical box in the boxes on the back of the box all the way down to the
basement and I'll just never I'll just never forget that I had the same exact
thing happen at a hospital we have uh we do a lot of work in and they now have a
rule no self- leveler none you can't drag
it do whatever else you have to do but you cannot use self leveler they had it
happen multiple other times but it takes the smallest a hole Yeah
and they they fire cocked everything thought they had everything we figured
fire coocking is supposed to stop everything fire and smoke and so it's surely going to stop water well you're
assuming that guy did did a perfect job and we started self-leveling this wasn't
that long ago maybe three four years ago and it went down sad to say into the
Peds pediatric ICU area luckily the main room that it got like really bad in was
a uh unoccupied room but it was um quite
the lesson like you might as well I'm scared I'm fearful after that one to
poor self-level are on elevated slabs you know what you just never know especially remodels where you know
there's an old hole they fill it with concrete well it just doesn't take anything that stuff is so
loose I mean you do I'm sure most people on here have done self- leveler as far
as like even the audience you know you know how self- leveler is yeah and it's so loose that it went it'll go down
floors on Floors if you're not careful like yours said he had go down An Elevator Shaft oh oh
godam that's you know um that's worthy of a Halloween story right there gez you
want to know what's the real nightmare is when you do a project for another flooring company and every no one did
moist your testing even though it says their contract says you need to do it this contract says we're not going to do
it it's on you and us the installer go in and your friend that you know comes and does the inspection on the failure
that's a nightmare State yeah and that was recent a couple years ago couple years ago yeah
and it's like we did what we were supposed to do and it's was like well I can't can't
really say anything bad about you but high moisture content Brothers
like actually I think that test came out um because they didn't have the HVAC on
like they said it oh was that what it was yeah yeah and you know what else on moisture testing make sure you're logging it if you're a if if you're
doing it and you're an installer doing it for a shop or whatever the scenario log it like take if you're doing RH take
pictures like timestamp that stuff one of the first questions you're going to get asked on a failure is did you
moisture test especially if it's sheet final and so we're doing a bunch of that would be a good A good episode right
there yeah because we're doing we have to go do moisture testing starting tomorrow and we're on a project with a
bunch of lvt and I contacted him a couple weeks ago said you guys need to get the moisture testing done because I
need to know the readings to make sure we're good he said don't need to it's brand new it's a brand new conrete you
don't need to I said no and I sent them the document right from the manufacturer it says moisture testing is required on
all resilient Floor Covering projects and then and Shaw is really
good about this too because right in the document it also States in there the installer is not responsible to moisture
test but we are responsible to get the results and he I sent him that and he still came
back with it's new concrete no Christ's on the the project I said hey ask them
tell them that we need the results they didn't get them and it's like okay I can we can test it right
we're certified so let's try and go that route and they agreed so we're going to start
tomorrow which just sucks because it pushes us back a couple days but I mean it's it's got to get get done well good
on you for making sure it happens because that there's nothing worse than getting asked for your results in a
moisture problem well that's where you don't have them or you you says that we
learn from our own mistakes and there's been a time or two where where sha right
in there where Shaw says we're not responsible for the test but we're responsible to get the results and you
learn from oh I didn't ask you for results and now it's failing so
my bad but that that's where you learn yeah well I I could keep going for
but I don't want to uh you know just talk about the bad stuff what I do want to talk about is the lessons of all this
is understanding that ask questions is the biggest lesson
I learned early on if you're installing we we've got a guy that's been in installing maybe for two to three years
and he's one of those Naturals that kind of picked it up really well uh in the ceramic tole world and he's wanting to
go out and be a sub he's only been doing it for like two or three years two
years so you just don't know what you don't know so I encourage every
younger in the industry kind of guy is or you know ask the questions understand
your limitations understand you haven't been taught everything at two years and you you have scenarios you're going to
run up against so if you're going to go out there you better um be willing to
you know swallow the ego and ask questions because that that was my problem and it cost me a lot of pain I
mean I I messed some stuff up when I first started installing so obviously we preach it all the time
on this channel about getting properly trained on the flooring products and
making sure that you're you have enough experience to even get trained there's plenty of times when uh you know an
advanced training is not appropriate because you just don't know what you don't know I I use schlutter you know um
their um two-day shower Workshop it's not hard have you guys been to that no
have you ever okay so it's it's not hard or anything but the the the thing is is if you haven't
learned Reg like installation of ceramic tile thin
set the ba the most basic if you if you have not learned that you have no right doing a shower anyway you know and so
that that training um in particular is is to me somebody who's been doing it a
while the key that I'm trying to or the point that I'm trying to make is ask questions make sure you're seeking out
training and you're seeking out the opportunities to get better um lean on people in the industry that
have learned the lessons maybe the hard way and listen and um that'll help a lot
as even like right now Kendall is asking uh what is the best self-leveling product that's that's a relative
question what do you guys what what is like what is your guys's
top our most common is mape ultra plan easy that's our most commonly used
product uh I would say one of the freaking most
awesome products from a uh result standpoint is uzin they got a we did a
big Home Depot that had to be uh mitigated and self- leveled and I tell
you what I took pictures when it was wet and it literally looked like a mirror
and then when it dried it was absolutely perfect we installed nor Rubber and
rubber tile over it and when it was done the job looked freaking fantastic and I
was really really impressed with Us's product so that you know if we have
plenty of time we'll use Nova plan but we've used Shero depending on the
scenario that you're in and that's why it's kind of relative it's like what is
what is the use case and which which one of them fit best to your use case but
our day in day out because typically you just don't have time to wait 24 48 hours
for it to dry uh is ultra plan easy okay and with us our our go-to is
uin our go-to is uin but like you said what what are what are you going over
what what's the use going to be because there's sometimes when I call our rep and I'm like hey this is the what's
going on and he's like yeah none of our products so then sherox has a lot of really cool use
use case products so to answer his question they they they've got we did a
big uh Ballroom where they wanted to expose concrete so we ended up putting
an acrylic sealer over AP and and it was
this was a multi- uh product substrate so some of it was
like a lightweight concrete some of it was just old 50-year concrete some of it
was just poured six months ago some of it was like it was a hodgepodge of a it
was like a quill of a of a substrate nobody else wanted to touch
it from a adherence standpoint even and not just that you know you may have
crack lines come through any of that you know that is a possibility no matter what product you use if there's movement
this was just like there was no other product to go over it and and Sher Knox there that AP was with I forget what
primer we used SHP maybe yeah and dude I
was in there not this done we did this probably four years ago I was in there few months back and it's still looks
like it still looks great Kevin's on what's up Kevin the uh it the the
product itself like I remember like Daniel saying you have the certain scenarios but whenever we we're like we
have a we don't what to what to use we do call sherocks hey this is the
scenario send me pictures send me information let's see what we can figure out um but I mean any any manufacturer
is GNA have a good system it's just following that system like we're we're ARX certified ARX makes great products I
mean you think about feather finish in general that's the name that comes to
mind right I mean was a Pioneer in the in the um under layman space as far as
I'm concerned everyone's trying to replicate what they had they were definitely the The Godfather of good
good floor you know I would say their feather finish
was the staple of the entire industry and probably still is for the most part
feather finish uh K15 and sdp I mean those were what I was introduced with
that's what I use a lot of and yeah so every product's going to have a a good every manufacturer has a
really you know good product line it's just not all of them are you just can't
use one and say I'm G use this for everything so yeah I hope that provided
between what you guys just said and all that provided some clarity there but and
speaking about like horror stories and stuff the best case the best thing you can do in any on
any project is document everything yeah take pictures of everything I had we
This was um Hospital project and someone else self-
leveled and like we were working upstairs someone was self-leveling downstairs but we were going to do the
install and I went down there and I'm looking at it and you can see it just going into
these joints right and I I thought they were cut joints and I go to the GC and
I'm like hey this ain't right oh yeah 100% they're only an inch and a half deep I said no those are not an inch and
a half deep I guarantee it so I'm taking pictures of everything I go back the
next day and everything is looks great except for at that joint and it's still
dark and you can imagine you know you put a napkin and you dip it in water and you can see the moisture you know Start
Spreading and that's what's happening it's up the joint and then it's going out like four or five inches it's like a
wick yeah and it's like all right I'm going to take more pictures and then the next day same thing and I I go to them
and I'm like uh this is going to fail and they're like no it's not they're an inch and a half deep I guarantee it so
fast forward we it had it took over a week to
fully cure all the way through to where I was comfortable right and it's like
all right we install everything and then fast forward I don't know like six eight months later something like that not not
almost a year it was almost a year and it was the first St from the
winners so we we go back and we get a because we get a phone call and they're
like there's bubbles in the flooring so I inspect I take it up and sure enough
moisture so it it kept on happening and I'm like guys I told you these were not
cut joints and so they overlaid their Co C pores from the different pores that
they did onto where things were happening and sure enough every failure was at a cold
joint and I'm like like I'm gonna fix it this time but I'm not going to fix it
anymore like things happen
documentation and I'm not just saying like from a project manager or company
standpoint like installers protect yourselves like take pictures log them
put them in a file uh if you if you're go career installer throw it in the chat
with your company whoever you're doing the work order for and show them that you have documented a lot of times
sharing that documentation and people knowing you're documenting that well will get them off of the off of their
their seat to to actually do something about it so and sometimes that's writing
down someone's name a meaningful conversation you have with someone who represents the company or the location
you're working at right down right so that way you can well who did you talk to uh that one that one talk to James at
252 on October 15th and and it's not always about if something's going to
fail it's about protecting yourself with getting paid too because I've had plenty of times where they're
like like why are you charging us so much for all this prep and then I send them back pictures this is the material
this is where we pre this is how we were primed and you know and stuff like that and on some of these projects they were
I go back and and I'm talking to them and they're like I'm like uh is the documentation good enough and they're
like I can't believe you have all this documented like it goes a long way the more they
know too the more that they they kind of listen so and something that just protected us recently was uh pictures of
the pro progress pictures that we required the cruise and they got pictures of uh stuff that was hanging
from the ceilings that was intact when we were done and walked out and I got a phone call after the project was done
saying that we broke a couple things all right well let's take a look I showed him the pictures like look it's still
hanging it's still intact in my picture This Is Us walking out oh must have been someone
else this topic needs a few shows agreed I mean we're at we're at
the end of the hour and we've shared a few uh you know I do want to make one quick comment that's pretty funny that
you know how we we floring guys say we're blamed for everything now you're blamed for ceiling stuff for stuff on
the ceiling this is not the first time the the other time was at a school and
there the there's a light fixture like 20 foot up and he's like you guys got patch on this light fixture up there so
he he mixed them really wet patch like going like this with the mixer and then
took the bucket and dropped it and it just went and I said said show me how show me like tell tell like and I was
doing it to be an a-hole I was doing it to be an a-hole I'm not even Ling I'm not joking like you're gonna blame me for that let's let's go through the
scenario and I did man I was and I was really messy with it maybe your guys got
got the uh got the mud got a mud wrestling match
going all right well you guys just froze up on me I don't know if you can hear me oh there you are oh there we go sweet
all right well we've come to the end of this episode guys appreciate you sharing some of the
stories uh it's always you know fitting here you know you talk about Halloween
and scary stories imploring we worry about this stuff um at least I do uh
when you're when you you just don't know what can go wrong we got a multi you
know we're dealing with concrete we're dealing with so many different uh aspects when you put flooring down so
again get trained talk to people get plugged into you know experts in the
industry and uh you know you'll you'll lower your risk like we make way less
failures today than I most of my stories are from the early days and there's a reason for that so as you get experience
and you get trained and uh you know invest in your your business your
company yourself uh you lower that risk so and document document document yeah
says no I need more of the Huddle I think I think one of the biggest things with this topic is being open to share
your failures because a lot of people are like I'm never going to tell anyone about this like I don't want anyone to
know but it's like man we were all brand new ones we all had to go through it like the more we share our failures with
everyone the less likely anyone else is to repeat them yep well that's the uh
that's the goal so all right gentlemen until next week we'll let you go and
good talking with you guys Happy Halloween everyone happy Halloween go get some candy we're not going out it's
too cold down here I don't know what it is up there but we're sub30 degrees I'm like 34 and snowing and the kids are I
said we're gonna hit five houses real quick and then I'll buy you candy good plan all right gentlemen
we'll chat with you guys later uh I need to have a tagline to exit our podcast
I'm always like all right we'll see you bye all right see you next week tagline
we'll get it we'll get it all right see you make your suggestions in our in the comment section we we may adopt
yours all right see you guys see you take it easy thanks
everyone
The Huddle - Episode 69 - Flooring Dealers; Building a Strong Team
This week the guys are joined by special guest Roland Thompson (https://thompsonflooringmd.com) to discuss how he built his company, and what steps others can take to make sure they are building a strong team that will launch their business forward.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
Go Carrera initiated the Forward Progress CIM Scholarship because we believe in supporting professional flooring installers and providing them with educational opportunities to improve their future and encourage ‘forward progress’ in their careers. We value continuing education and believe access to advancement opportunities will ensure a rewarding installation career and a possible future in installation management. FCICA shares these values, which is why Go Carrera is a proud member of FCICA and strong supporter of the Certified Installation Manager (CIM) Program.
Please complete the application to be considered for this scholarship. The closing date for application submissions is Monday, December 18, 2023. One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
Ser what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday
at 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
with me as always is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan we got a special
guest today Mr Roland Thomas of Thompson's floring out of tell me again
Thompson Thompson out of Frederick Maryland Frederick Maryland Frederick Maryland Roland's been on our uh podcast
a time or two and uh well several times always a great Insight uh he brings a
real good unique perspective uh from the retailers world
as well as training and just what it takes to be a highlevel uh flooring
installer so today is just about that retail
and uh the retailers and how you build a successful team around you I was talk do
you guys have an echo a little bit yes okay I'm going to turn some things try
and tune some things in here there we go hopefully that works um I was talking to
Roland right before the the podcast here getting a little bit more background uh
I've known Roland for I don't know four or five years we've been going seeing each other at shows andang out a little
bit one of the unique uh aspects that he does is a lot of these uh TV shows like
uh I believe it's Restaurant Impossible is one of them that you do I think you've done some others but his real
passion is in installation and he at the ripe age of 62 is that correct he
decided to go out 64 64 go out and start his own retail uh Loc where he sells
materials and labor provides labor services to and consultancy uh to clients so
today it's going to be a little bit less of my input because to be honest with
you I'm a I'm in the commercial world uh go Carrera which many of you know me
from is works for both retail and and uh commercial
contractors it's designed to do so however my expertise in flooring
particularly from a business subject matter uh is really more Consolidated around the commercial world so I'm
pleased to have Roland on the the call and um I know that the preferred
flooring gentlemen uh do a lot of residential work as well and Retail
possibly a little bit of that as well so I'm going to let you guys kind of talk about what it takes and Rolland I mean
you you you went from installer to like a the the lead of an installation team
at a at a well Carpet One I believe and
and then went on to start your your business as a retailer what was the what
are some of the key let's start here what have you learned through that
through that transition and what are some key pitfalls that you kind of can share with us that
that you know maybe help some other people avoid if they're looking to do the same thing you did well you know it
sort of think things worked out in in the right progression for me because you
know I when I you was out installing I installed a small bathroom for a retail
for a consumer you know or I'd do a big high I you know commercial building so I
was did both I worked both commercial and residential as far as the installing
and uh then when I went into the carpet one you know so I learned that aspect
and I you know and that's still my passion installers are my passion and but yet when I went into the carbet one
dealer and was handling all the all the stuff for them and I got to go to the sales training I got went to the Carpet
One conven ions I went to all went through all the sales trainings with Sam Alman and all those so I learned that
started learning that into the aspect of the of the business so it sort of
flip-flopped I still kept my hands in installation because I still would go out and do the custom work and certain
things but I was learn at that time I was learning the the the retail end of
it getting to meet the the the sales reps and the retail and all that of the
of the that end of the industry so on that side is that some of the pit some of the
lessons was get getting to know some of the the the sales reps and and actually
realizing that you needed some some soft skills some sales training some some of
that salesmanship that goes along with you know owning your own uh retail
business well you know it there again you know install you know you hear all the time installers make the best sales
people on and but I've seen so many installers try to go into sales and ended up going back in into into
installs because it does take a different mindset trying to sell and it
takes a different disposition trying to sell uh and and learning that from you
know you know going through the customer service orientations and all that kind of stuff learning how to talk to a con
consumer uh is another skill to learn so installers you know to be able to make
that transfer has to be willing to have open their mind up to learn that into the industry you know with us as
installers when we loaded up in the morning we are going out to make money and we knew we had a job we knew we're
gonna do something we're going to make some money and a salesperson has to learn that they have to learn rejection
because you're not going to close every sale because if you close every sale you're you're you're not pricing it right it's just not going to happen good
point it's just not going to happen so that salesperson can go out and talk to
10 people and and he's fortunate if he gets six of them you know and seven of
them there's there's always so so as you started doing this
as you started to really develop your sales skills and stuff and and you know
creating that soft uh you know knowing how to talk to customers and sell them flooring is one thing how did you use
installation and I'm going somewhere with this how did you use your installation prowess and and
knowledge um did that come in handy I should say when it came to selling sure
it does and it still does to this day and and that's why I'm a firm believer that sales people me and Jerry levenson
went over that know battled back and forth that sales people should know about installation because when you're
talking to a a consumer there's a fine line you can you you want them to
understand that you know understand what's going to happen in their home because it's their Castle so you're going to want them to understand what's
going to happen in their home and the more you know to be able to project that to them is going to give you a hands up
to somebody a salesperson or don't but in the same Realms you don't want to overwhelm them with too much te techn
you know terminology either so you don't take all those plaques off the wall and and stack them up in your truck and take
him out to show show I I make him come in and look no he he he just makes one post every day
yeah 365 Kevin is on Facebook he says uh as
seen on TV Mr Seen On TV you should have a shirt like that Roland yeah SE on TV
no so as you started down that path and you started to um you know grow the
business I think you stated earlier you know it kind of just took off you were thinking like hey I'm going to finish my
career out you know doing doing a few things almost as um I wouldn't call it a
hobby but it it almost seemed like you were going into it with you know muted
expectation and then it kind of took off for you you had to build a team around you which is really what this podcast
this this episode's about is how do you build a team as a retailer but more importantly or maybe more importantly is
how do installers become part of a good team and what what aspect on both sides
so how did you build it and then what's it take from the installer to be part of a good team and be valued by the
retailer well go ahead Jose you you put into no I
just like the question I like the question that he asked you I want to hear it from the master of disaster I don't anyway you know what what I did is
like I said I came in figuring you know I was going to just you I just install sell and install because I knew I had
picked up some saleing skins you know you figure I've been married now 49 years I know I can
sell I talked my wife into being able to stay with me but so in the same Realms
you know but when things started taking you know I had to
learn to then trust and and fortunately because I was where at the position I
was I knew you know was CFI trainings and everything else I knew what the better installers were uh but I still
had to learn the trust them and they had to learn to trust me when they came in so it come down to trust and feel
comfortable with each other you got they got to feel comfortable with me I got to feel comfortable with them and and then
when it came to where I had moved to where I couldn't even handle all the all
the measures anymore you know as one person uh you know then I went out and
and you know through being at the carpa one I knew who was one of the best
salesman considered one of the best salesmen in town that people hated to go up against and I made a phone call and
said okay hey I need a guy you ready to come and he say sure so it's it's
learning you know how to you know we're not just like last week I got a call
from from PJ's wife that PJ uh was was not doing well as he's better now so so
I can bring that up let me interject for the audience PJ's one of the like Premier trainers in the industry he he's
uh the uh owner of natural fiber um I forget the whole name but it's the
natur what go ahead nfic natur fiber insation certification yeah so it's
high-end you know dealing with wols and you can even learn how to do the uh you
know SE seams to pattern we went through that class it's a great class yeah so if
you if you're ever interested just to let every know he's talking about when he says PJ it's PJ Arthur with nfic so
yeah so so um I get a call on on Tuesday Morning from Eloise's wife saying that
uh he was taken the hospital and he had a course start in Wednesday there there's guys from Canada and all that in
and needed the course done my point is to this was I had the
capability because I have a good team to know that I could move things around get in the car
and drive down there and put it on for them because I had installers that were going to take care of my customers back
here I had a Salesman who's going to be able to take care of everything
business-wise and so I packed up went down and and did the class for him and came back Saturday so so it provides
freedom is what you're saying I mean this is a very specific instance where the freedom came out to help a friend
and a a you know not only a personal friend of yours but also a industry friend right and able to go help PJ out
Freedom looks You Know M multiple different facets of that but you were able to build a team that's able to run
the company uh in your absence how did you do that let's get to
some nuts and bolts what are you looking for from your let's start with the
salesman what what do you look a good sales for example I just hang up so there again
you know when I started putting the team together yeah I I went to the installers
that you know I used at the carpet one dealer you know installers that I know went through the certifications know
what they're they know how they had to know what I expected out of them when they go into my consumer's home and what
is that let's drill down what is that what you expect of them what I expect
them is to have a do a good job because everybody wants them to do a good job
but I when when they the next day or the two days later sometimes it's two days
all right we make a phone call to our our retail customers all right or any of
them and my questions are a did they do a good job so they're expected to do
that they expect they know my quality level and they they're expected to reach reach towards that the best they can and
it sounds like that starts with the salesperson then correct it starts with the salesperson setting the expectations
to the client all right so he's got to know that all right then I'm GNA ask him
a question were they Pleasant did you enjoy them being in their home I expect
them to treat my customers with K gloves you know is Sir
home you're a guest and they expect I expect him to treat him that way and then I'll then I go did they clean up
and leave your house better than it was when they came those you and I want you
know if I any of those they give me a negative review I'm going to the installer and saying hey you didn't
reach it this time now do I expect them to be perfect no I'm not but I expect
them to strive to do their best and they know that's what I expect out of them yeah and you have a right a good
followup and an expectation so it starts with your your finding just to kind of
unpack this a little bit so getting a good salesman is getting somebody who a
knows floring uh or can be trained to know floring uh and B can set you uh
enduser expectations or homeowner expectations because that is probably
one of and I want to bring that point out because that's I think Daniel and
Jose you guys are in the Facebook groups but that's one of the the complaints from a lot of installers out there is
that the salesman promises the world and then it's it's impossible for the
installer to get out there and and reach those expectations so I think that's important
that A salesperson you know manages the expectations of the homeowner or the end
user and uh so that that point is is is worthy of noting right to talk on the
sales end of it what you're saying is this is what I have in place okay with
with my salesperson now fortunately there again I knew him he was at the
carbal one dealer for years prior to that his dad had a na was a Navy dealer for years he grew up in
the sales portion so product knowledge and everything else I mean somebody
walks in with a with a flooring and he'll look at it and go oh that's this this this this he knows that you know he
can tell them what it was when it was sold and if they make it anymore you know but what makes him what him and I
have in place all right is like you said about the how important it is me being on the installation end a salesperson
being able to relate so two things we have in set in place one is If he if he goes out and looks at a job and he has
any doubt whatsoever of of something that can be done should be done might get done what
a trans what transition should go on this door he brings it to me he'll take pictures brings it to me there sometimes
with me being gone the way I'm gone he can't bring it to me so if I'm not here for him to bring it to me he then needs
to talk to the head head installer from one of the crews because we have multiple you know workroom type things
the have one guy Alfredo has seven guys and and Edwin has eight guys all right
but he needs to take it to them and say hey here's the pictures I took here what this to be done or if he has any doubt
line up for them to meet him at the job and go over it prior to pricing the job
so so uh that's what we have set up here so you know I don't depend on you know
he never installed and you can only teach him so much about installation without them if they haven't done done
it so if there's any doubt in what should be priced
out whether it should be priced out what should be priced out what's needed it's in place for him then to seek out the
expert that knows that so that's how we have set up if you don't know ask that's
right 100% what's your guys's experience in in dealing with that portion when
you're when you're selling to an end user um how do you guys deal with the
similar situation you have somebody going out and selling a job do you guys
do that um still you guys do that coffee and do you guys do that and then
bounce things off one another or do you have a separate salesperson that goes out and sells your pro your residential
projects no that would be us a lot of a lot of the residential is him when I'm
dealing with residential customers I I guess I I don't really know because
I just go in there explain to them what we're going to do I mean what it is in the nutshell is is
Daniel has patience for computers he doesn't have patience for people sometimes understand his strengths and
his weaknesses um I'm definitely more of a people person so it just makes more sense to put myself out there um
and I don't I look at it from from installer perspective I don't ever in I
don't ever and I will never intentionally put an installer at risk or or jeopardize a project because I'm
over speaking um but I I also understand some of the process so I do not um I I
under promise and try to overd deliver right I I still try to do that on on residential and Commercial um but at the
same time is um I try to be thorough and and the way Daniel said to explain everything I I do
my very best to do that um if I don't know I say I don't know if I do know um
I try to articulate my words in a manner that will
fit um our conversation right like I don't want to start droing technical terms to someone where it's going to go
over their head so I try to uh to say it in terms that they're goingon to understand um sometimes just and uh it's
just it's just one of those things where I try to find a solution and instead of uh instead of shooting down their ideas
or saying hey I know that you have this material in mind but we can't do that here I try to find a solution and if
they don't understand it i' explain it to them that way um and as far as the installs I think
the what I'm finding is that no matter how thorough I am with the client
there's always something that they act like oh I didn't know that I was supposed to do
that I didn't know this I didn't know that they they they they like in residential you tend to see that a
lot more than commercial um but you like you're dealing directly with the end user
there's there's no in between it's you and them and and that's why but I try to set everybody up for Success so they
forgot they had to move that water bed and safe yeah we'll have all the furniture moved by the time you get here
and then it gets to that day oh yeah I didn't wake up early yeah
so it it's it's it's a work in progress and and I think that I tell everybody
I'm not a Salesman Daniel tells me otherwise other people tell me otherwise but like I I just try to help find
Solutions and and Rin well salesman's not a dirty word I mean if you're a good
one you you set expectations you tell the client what what they're going to get and you you sell things at a fair
price and and all these key aspects you also work through all the challenges
that may come up or the um the uh rebuttal from from the enduser or
homeowner right so it's not a bad term if you're good at sales you're a Salesman so I'll call you a
Salesman that's fine I'm never I'm never offended by it I'll be honest I'm never offended by it Edo wants to know Eduardo
wants to know why you've been crying all day hiding your eyes I almost put on my
sunglasses so we could all match and you just I go put on mine we're all just sunglassed out I have I had I had
surgery in my eye uh this morning they put a laser in there and shot to the back of my eye so the light is is really
killing me today well you look cool I think it's a look that works for the podcast and you could just be the
sunglass dude on the podcast and Mario's on says hello Mr Rollin and then texted
him right after that I see you I I had a meeting right after my
surgery this morning and I went there and I I I assured the the the young lady that I wasn't said I I feel like such a
tool right now but the my eye hurts really bad so I got to try to protect it
um so well I I think they look good on you so um it sounds like Rand and uh
from what you and Jose are saying I mean it's that first step though is really important for the salesperson to be the
right you know it's the first person the homeowner is going to see often and and
they they have a lot of responsibility to set the job up correctly and make sure that the that the installer is set
up for success I hear Jose and Daniel both say that a lot on the podcast in
different topics it's about setting up your installer for Success um so what does that mean to you
guys what does it mean to set the installer up for Success well um oh go ahead ran go ahead
you know when when you you know as a salesperson any you know we each have
and and that's when I watch guys say well we don't need the salesman or we don't need the store you know each
person has a duty to do and for the salesperson like you said they they
enter the store you know it's the duty of the owner to get advertised get
people into the into the place then when the when they come in it's the duty of the salesman to greet them right to know
how to handle to know how but he also needs enough that's what I said you can get to techn technical with a client
that's what Jose even said you know you're gonna watch what he says you can get too technical with them you need to
give them the information you know of what you know and the pros and cons of product and all that kind of stuff that
comes with selling well then you got they got to set them up with understanding what they're going to go
through when when the install comes and and that's where you need to learn you need to learn if you have tear up you
know that it it it's it's it could be Dusty you know we're protected best the thing but dust can find a place to go
all right there you know and give them ideas and then we're going to take up and we don't know what's under there it
could be this you know get them ready for that in case there's unforeseen things uh and getting them prepped to
know for the installer and then the biggest key is having that all written down for the
installer all right if an installer has a distinctive work
order that explains everything you told the the consumer not the surprise that
the consumer says you told them everything that was discussed all right you know whether you're moving the
furniture whether you're gonna you know paint the paint the banister whether you're gonna do this a detailed layout
and detailed um of what needs to be done then he's prepared I can look at it in
the morning before I leave and go okay this is what I got to do a he knows what
supplies to get all right he knows he's going to need Camen tape he knows he's going to need this specialized glue he
knows he's gonna need that nothing's worse than getting to a job and find out there wasn't something on on the work
order and now you got to run and tell consumer I got to run I'm gonna be gone for an hour I'll be back you know so
that's getting him ready for Success he's there prepar pred to do his job the
way that the job is supposed to be done and you prepared him for that and so
that that to me is is what a job of a Salesman is is not only to sell the job
but have that have the you know the installer you know because an
installer I tell I tell dealers as a Salesman you can mess
up and you you can overcome that if your installer messes up because you didn't
give him the stuff he needs to do and do it right a customer gets mad and might
not come back to your store I as an installer can take take a customer who's mad at a
salesperson and turn them around to love the store because of what I did and
so that success that chain that needs to go there as as a as a retailer you need
to make sure you have each one trained properly to to enhance the other
one sounds like a team effort on there too and that's a great example that's part of being a team is um is is
understanding that uh we all have we all have guidelines as the installer the the
salesperson but it's also understanding that we're all human we're all going to forget something and being able to um uh
being able to smooth things over when something doesn't go as planned um and
and that's actually coming from the installation side having to have the
salesperson back more often than not um and learning together because they might not know the installation side at all
right they're just good at selling um and that's where communication comes in and you gota well and that's where
that's where that's where the team comes in you guys were just talking about I mean I earlier I said you know often the
salesperson is the first thing that the homeowner sees or um you know in many
cases anyway and the installer is typically the last person they're going to see so that shows you your team you
got the owner as Rollin said that has to get the traffic in in first Contact is
say A salesperson and not always but in bigger stores that's certainly true so
in bigger retail ERS and then but very often the installers the last taste in
the the retail uh you know the consumer's mouth so to speak so it's like the last flavor of the store that
you have is the installer and what's important is that the installer
understands that you know and I think that stores that value their labor do a
good job of reminding them how important they are and finding creative ways to
incentivize them to do not only do a good job from an installation perspective and a qualities you know
standpoint but also from like you said Rand were they Pleasant how how you know
being Pleasant being um being in a guest in someone's house means that you're
you're you're thankful for being there you're grateful and you know installers
if we can learn to be grateful for that day's work uh be grateful for that
project and and show it through our actions and through our attitude with the consumer whether that's frankly
whether that's retail or commercial but um you know I was having a conversation
earlier with a guy and and and I was like you know there's two different levels of professionalism when you're or
two different ways of professionalism you can be pretty rough neck uh on a
commercial job but you better have your safety professionalism down you better have hard hat safety glasses work boots
High Biz vest know your safety stuff you may not talk the best and probably shouldn't be in a retail environment but
you take the other side and the retail installer has to be more personable and
pleasant and and understanding that you're a guest in the house and uh but
you know they're not wearing high VI vests and safety glasses and hard hats and work boots and things of that nature
so there's two different ways to be professional as a as an installer um and
you you know the beauty is you kind of pick your path I I did both early on and and I just gravitated to the to the
commercial world uh maybe it's because I was a bit of a butthead when I was in my 20s and and didn't always uh present
myself the best but I also understand what that's like so you know installers
out there you are a piece of the sales process at the end of the day you're part of the team and the more that
retail I'm putting some words in the retailers mouth here but I believe that the more that a retailer Can
U include the installer as part of their team and make sure they know that they're part of the team and make sure
that they know how important they are you know I think that goes a long way yeah I was going to say something about
that because I I think that you're you're talking about building a team right you got to kind of make sure that
your your core values aligned and then that translates over into the workspace because there's you know
plenty of people that we have done work for throughout the years uh kind of the same thing it goes one of two ways it's
either hey this is happening on this project and then they come back with what do we need to do to make this right
do whatever you need to do right like let's figure this out together or they say no do it the way I'm telling you
that's it well you know people PE just like you know old thing and when you you're
becoming a Salesman or you're coming dealing with the public you know they say people like to buy from people they
like yeah and and so they like and trust you know so it's the same thing with the
installation Realms people like who's in their home who they like um prime
example was when I first went into the carpet one and my job was to you know they had had some trouble with the in
some of the installation teams and trying to decide what was going on their number one produ productive
crew I got rid of and their lowest productive crew I
told them they needed to keep and and they they were they were hourly at the
time they were hourly employees and the number one production
crew lost them so much work customers would not come back to that store he
when you say productive crew just for clarification is that just the one that
got the most stuff put in right right and his work was fine it wasn't you know but he he he that crew would go out and
and and if you had a bigger job that's who they sent because that's that who would get it done the other crew
wouldn't get that done it' take two days or almost two days to do that job so he's the one who went but he
lost so you know they lost work that guy he the leag guy for that company for
that Crew He had husbands that came in looking for him to beat the crap out of him on how he treat he treated their W
their wife while they were at work he was you know a customer would come in and and he would just say get out of my
way I'm here to do a job leave me alone he had a bad disposition he would talk to him nasty and I kept telling him yes
he might get the most work done for you but you're losing business people aren't
coming back all right the other the on the other hand part of the reason why Ron and
Randy didn't didn't get much done in the day is they became friends and would
have lunch with the people they loved them every customer come back into the
store you know I said he's bringing you work back the other one isn't so you
know that's part of pulling that team you have to recognize that you have to
to analyze that and bring them on the team there was no way I was going to bring the other guy on the on the team
when I came in there there was just no way he wasn't going to change his ways yeah so so why is all
this why is all this important I mean you know retailers honestly you're not you're not
competing against one another really a lot of the retailers are competing against the big box stores who yeah
where they really lack is the guidance when you go into a box store I won't name any
but you go in there for guidance uh you need guidance in floring there's too
many different products that are made or manufactured in different ways that have
different use cases and you go into a retailer for
that guidance that you wouldn't get at a box store but if you the one thing that box stores uh have really worked on is
the customer service aspect so if retailers are not good at both sides
kind of guiding the consumer on good product selections that fit you know the
long-term uh use case for their house and or um or a given
room and also be pleasant be be um be
enjoyable to work with now I'm not saying the box stores have great Crews that do that but my point here is you
you want to be in in kind of checking both of those boxes as a retailer you
don't have the marketing budget often that you know the big box stores do that
get on TV and commercials and all this stuff you got to beat them on customer experience and if you can beat them on
customer experience that customer comes back and back and back and has no desire to go and get this watered down version
of what you offer and so that's why why this is an important podcast is you know
retailers have to understand you're not competing against one another in reality you're competing against these big box
do and and your guys's job and this is why I keep deferring to you guys because I'm not I'm not in the residential
retail World here's go ahead Roland pardon me
here's you talking about that here's one of the things I use all the time when when the person's been in into a box
store all right is and this is part of being a team and and showing as a team
when when I go to you go to Clos or my salesman go to close we can say well you know Edwin's coming out and going to be
to installer on your job next week or whenever I'm gonna have I'm gonna ass Edwin to your job you know and he's
great guy he's got a wife and he's got you know kids and and you can build him up you know say you know and he's going
to do you a great job you you know he knows what our standards are and everything else feed
it a box store can't do that because that salesperson has no idea who is GNA
go out no clue no clue and not not saying that the guy was a bad installer
but they can't give that Personal Touch that a retailer can do if he builds the
right team and he builds the right experience and he knows his team you know I mean it it you know if I show up
if I show up at Alfredo's job site I know what Alfredo drinks I know what he
likes you know and so I might bring bring them out of soda you know and say
here I was on my way in I thought I'd stop by here you are you're building that team and and box stores can't do
that where where you as a might have their favorites they might have their favorites every now and then but you
know not many not you know they they might get to know one here or there but most of them nowadays who he knows is
the head of the work room yeah not not the guy actually going out to the job site most of right he might know what
you know what beer that the guy from the from the work room likes but he doesn't he won't know the guy that's actually
out there on that on that consumer's house most of the time more time so I do
I know who's I'm sending you know and even if you don't know the day you so
you close the deal you'll say well when we schedule it with you we'll let you know who's coming we'll let you know
what their name is and who's goingon to be at your home and that's something they can't do even on the commercial
side we we had someone in there last week and you know we have uh pictures of
crystal hanging up all over like from when she was in the competition and then it was a a female and she was like is
she going to be at this project and we were like she might be yeah she's like oh my God I'm so excited [Laughter]
you know um so I want to tag on to what Rin was saying about about that one
thing I'm noticing and my mother worked at a big box store for for some time some years uh and not necessarily in the
flooring portion of it but one thing that they are really good at is their retail management like they have a
system in place that would be hard for a smaller place like like me to follow
because the their team is just so vast um so so they're able to to to do that
um and and it sounds like uh we can learn from each other they can learn from us we can learn from them right and it sounds like uh being a smaller store
we we can personalize The Experience right we're selling an experience along with um a a good installation or or or
an installation period and like Rin said they can't guarantee that there's going to be a specific person or crew they
just say it's going to be done this time so I you know as far as the process on that I can't I can only guess how it's
done right um I can't say this is how it's done but um I think uh learning
learning from from from their retail experience um would would probably benefit uh a smaller store as
well and this is myew by the way that walked in he put a hat on because we were talking about we just happen to be
talking about uh uh professionalism right and and you had mentioned that and I was thinking yeah you're right there
is two levels but I think it's professionalism combined with the proper etiquette and I
think that that's what it is it's a combination of the two um so his etiquette was hide his wild crazy hair
you want see well I think I I think that you know a lot of the key points that are are you
know being brought out here is you know the I'm not trying to crap on box stores
but the personalized experience um oftentimes even there you
you start with one salesman you end with another uh it's that kind of a thing
um and that not that you can always you know guarantee which crew is going to be
on a on your job even as a small store um sometimes you can you know get get
close but the the point is is that you can talk about your guys you know them on a personal level and a lot of the
stores use you know larger work rooms we know that and you just don't know who is
going to come to your home and so there's great reasons to work with
quality retailers the the purpose of this was to bring out some of the the needs or the
the important parts of being a great retailer and and how to build that up so
that both the install side and the sell side are successful and they both you
know kind of sharing that success the more that's understood the more that every that team kind of gets more
cohesive um so working on or diving into labor a
little bit more what what's the status of labor for you ring I mean uh your
your main Crews that you use are they what what kind of activity from a are
they bringing in new guys or is there some young C young guys uh young people people coming into your uh the cruise or
or what's that look like for you well you know it and I'm not you I guess I
try to learn how to word I want to word this right because I don't want anybody to take
anything we talk about the insallation insulation crisis and is there an
insulation crisis to a certain degree yes there is but I think we miss
miscount on on people that's getting into industry to a certain degree
because it's nothing for me to see uh in one of the few of the
installers I use that every time their 11 10th 11 12th year year old
grade son or whatever is not going to school he's here helping his dad so
there is a lot of younger guys being you know in the exposed to to the floring industry
you know it's like the old days you know back when I started in 72 you know the
and that's why you saw so many guys saying I'm third generation I'm fourth generation I'm second generation that's
how a lot of people came into the industry it's still being
done but not as seen as much anymore because of the ethnic group that's
bringing them in okay uh the guy
the guys certain guys well that's below
my my my son so I'm not bringing him in but there's still some being brought in
well certainly not to the same level that it's been you know from the past and so but yeah but yeah but so there is
you're seeing in even my trainings I'm seeing more and more you
know more and more than I have been in the last five years younger people at the trainings
now whether or not the trainings are getting to be known more and that about
coming could be part of it but it's still you know just the one I went down
for PJ there there was uh three of them
that were probably under 30 you know yeah I guess you know the
the generational side of things is a double-edged sword uh it can you you can
have you can bring in new guys uh you can bring in family members and such but
also it didn't work like we do have I mean there's no doubt there is a if the
installation shortage is not felt by certain people by in certain areas or by
certain parts of floring yet it will be um oh yeah it is because people are
retire are going to retire over the next five to 10 years at a rate that we've never seen and if we don't start
backfilling their talent there's going to be a problem and there's just not enough friends and family in those
Realms uh and with my son's case you know he worked in the company since he was 13 and then you know wanted to do
something else and that happens as well uh there I will say one thing that seems
to be relevant today is that you know we're not getting replaced with AI I
know that's a buzzword the AI stuff but it's true there's a lot of stuff that's getting much easier a lot of desk jobs
and coding and things of this nature that is being starting to be replaced with AI we're going to have jobs for a
long time guys they're not coming after the the carpet and flooring guys for the robots aren't being trained to do our
job it's it's the Auto Workers and and things like that the push button kind of
scenarios there's too much too much skill in what we do and it's not not
enough meat on the bone so to speak yeah we don't have the cookie cutter hand skills is what it is and every single
job no matter if it if it is um a repeat or you're doing some Assisted Living where every room is the same it's not
the same like it's everything is slightly different can um can't do what we do on an assembly line you can use
assembly line mentality with the right crew but you you cannot replicate and duplicate um like an assembly line and
that's what makes you gotta have some some thought goes into almost every job and you know R you had made a good point
too about the under 30 year olds you're seeing is a lot of the trainings and
education classes and all that that's all hinged based off of what the the
retail uh and and salesperson is requiring of their installation curs um
you know if if they don't advocate for continued education to the guys that
they're hiring the guys that they're hiring will never think about it right they're just learning they're and and
they're making du there nobody's requiring it and a lot of what we do across the us nobody requires their
certification or training um for what we do we we we get certified or training so that way we can be more efficient and
better at what we do right in hopes that it does separate us and helps us stand out um and I think that if if more
people retailers and and just more people in general were on the same page
as that then we would have a lot more unsolicited exposure to our industry and
that's what would really help us out and well it's starting to you know that that boats CH turning slowly where you know
the quality of the installer is starting to matter uh more and more not not from
what they say they can do but what they can actually do and certifications and trainings and and having those
credentials um you know and also displaying them in a way where it it's
it's really tough when you start talking about all these plaques on on Roland's
wall yeah Jeremy says came with the picture frame Jeremy said that um our industry
brings people in and just calls them a Helper and then has them do grunt work and then when when you just say hey
that's my helper and then they're just in that routine of grunt work grunt work grunt work and every grunt person is
always like I want to install something right and then they don't get that chance and that's what makes them kind
of want to be like why am I even going to be here if you're not going to teach me how to do something which I think is
uh and and then you talk about certifications which is you wanted to show us something today didn't you Well
here here's my the the whole thing at at the end of the day when you're when you're talking about training people and
you know on the job training we we had there was a pretty big stigma around the
industry when I first got in that I didn't want to train my replacement yeah um that that's starting
to wne I'm hoping that you know as the uh age of the installer now like 25
years later you know the 30y olds that I knew then are you know now
55 uh the fact is is that you got to want to train the Next Generation that's
my that's our rally cry to installers out there but how do you trap that
there's and how do new install or how do installers find new health and and all
these things you can see all the problems uh all these issues kind of brought up on the different face
Facebook groups where the the the crews are trying to hire off of off of uh you
know Craigslist or whatever well the retailer has a responsibility in my opinion to to help their Crews to work
through the uh the maturity of new installers you know go Carrera what I
was going to show you is jump start I mean it's a job board that we created at go Carrera where all of the new trained
installers and I should say all but we're working with CFI fcica uh Inc all of the training
entities to bring a board and give companies like preferred flooring or our
flooring company steart Associates or Rollins flooring company if you hire by the hour you can get on jump start and
hire directly off a jump start from one of the recent graduates one of the candidates that are saying Hey I want to
be in floring I went through this course I may not be you know I'm not a I'm not an installer but I need to be with
someone and the crews on Goku are able to hire straight off of jumpstart with a
minimum of a hammer rating of one or above that way you can make sure that
the blind's not leading the blind so to speak that a trained installer so jumpstar just to share briefly a quick
screenshot I'm actually going to share this during the podcast here this is what jump start's coming to be where
these guys have graduated you know from different
um most of these are fcef graduates and
it's simple to jump in look at their profile uh you can review their profile what they're interested in what they did
you can schedule an interview go through find out if they have you know
their work workour desires uh you know do they want to work full or part-time
just more about the information that you are looking for uh when you're talking
about hiring somebody new out of the industry the key here is that you know
these these there's been a lot of effort in bringing these guys in and there's not a real good way for placement and
I'll stop the share I just wanted to give a quick kind kind of you know um
sneak peek into what happens when when you can be when you connect everything
and the key here in my opinion is getting these guys placed and retailers
as well as our our flooring you know our installer Network at go Carrera can hire
them uh directly retailers it's a very cheap fee to have access to jump start
our goal is to give an outlet for people to be placed with retailers and uh
installation crews in a meaningful and and in in a learning environment so that
they can uh move forward uh on the back side of that you know if you hire off a
jump start you're required to um to uh report their skill advancement so on a
monthly basis you go in and you file out fill out a report stating what you what
you've shown them and how they're progression is coming so when somebody like Rand hires Rand do you have any
employee installers or is it all um 1099 crw all 10 all 1099 crw so when those
Crews hire new guys um you know through our program you
you report on their on their advancement and where they're going if they're not
doing reports that's that's I like that you know what I mean and and so you can make sure that guys are trained um there
has to be a way to place and track the advancement of new installers and then
reward them based on that uh on their performance so one there too is uh
the you're already going into a pool of people who are interested in the industry right you're already going into
into that you're you're not gambling with someone who's just a friend of a friend or a family friend or a family
who might be interested um you you're you're you're actually drawing from a
from a a network of people who are actively showing interest in your field
and I it's so funny that they said or posted or shared that and today the conversation was find like minded driven
individuals you'll increase your chances of success you know my success is theirs their success is mine it's a shared it's
a shared effort I I like that yeah yeah and I mean are there is everybody on
there going to be uh home runs no but you got a much better I mean they've completed one of
the introductory courses in the flooring and at least they are showing interest
in our industry and then if we can place them correctly get them with good guys get them with good Crews get them with
good companies at the end of the day that's a better recipe than just kind of
making it up at least you have some kind of a recipe to make your cake yeah uh you're not just throwing a bunch of of
ingredients together and hoping something works out and that's what we've done for so long so having a
systematic way of advancing people through their their career and then you know ideally I'm I'm working with the
industry and I really would like for them to have an assessment so after say two years being as a uh a jump starter
working for a crew or working for a company that after a couple of years you can take you know a certification or an
assessment course uh training and uh somewhat like the I
mean we we need to take cues from some of the industries that are doing it pretty well in the Electric electrical
world you can test out and be a journeyman after four years that doesn't mean you're going to be that you're
automatically a journeyman after four years but you can test out and become a journeyman after four years of being an
apprentice we're trying to create that a similar uh environment but a digital
environment that allows guys to get progressively better and then after say
two to four years they can test out one of the entities test them maybe it's rolling going through a skills
assessment test and and Hands-On uh certification not that they have a true
certification from maybe um you know like whether it's CFI or uh CTF or any
of those you may not be CTI certified but what it is is saying this guy's
skill assessment is here and he's an actual installer he's an installation
professional at this point and we have us you you got a potential for a new crew lead um maybe they go through some
soft skills training as well and we have to start replacing the great Crews that
are out there not replacing them but backfilling them so with when they're ready to leave that they can have
confidence that a their knowledge has been passed down I can't think of a more
uh honorable thing than all the stuff that's up in here that I get to pass it down to somebody and now my installation
techniques and what I learned throughout my career and all my plaques got pushed
down to other people that's a that's a that's a feather of my cap when I decide
that I'm done and I'm not going to install anymore so we're trying to uh
just show the industry that we can do things together when retailers uh car
about the the install like Rolland does uh like PF floors and you actually give
a darn about the installation community and you pour into them and invest into them uh you create a better environment
for a good quality team that we've been talking about this whole time and Jeremy just made a good point too he says that
a lot of like a lot of people come into flooring and they see the things that
you have now and they're like well I want that today and when you're talking to you know when you get these people
that are that have gone through you know some of these um essentially the jump
jump start certifications right and they want they want to join your team and you can show them yeah this is a marathon
you know this is not a Sprint it's it took me 20 years to get to where I am
and I'm not saying that it's going to take you 20 years but you have to start somewhere and you have to progressively
get better and that's where I think it's a great idea that you can say yeah you know this is what doing right now we're
going to log this stuff and then at after so much time that that seems to be one of the
missing pieces like we get guys in and we have no way like the old way there's
there's no indication of when I can go be you know step out even if I'm an
employee installer when am I qualified to go out and start running my own crew
for the company I work for when when when does that happen for me when the lead man says you're ready
exactly and if the Le man exactly and that's very opinionated
correctly I mean you you can't help but it be opinionated it's not a uh
measurable we need to make it measurable and that doesn't mean by the way that
everybody that passes should be an installer team lead but it means they
may have the skill set to be an installer team lead so if we track it this nothing's perfect but it's a big
step forward in being able to place guys make sure they're with good quality crews that's why we encourage everybody
the entire installation Community to join go career you don't have to do work across it you don't have to even get
your work but you'll have access to jumpstart you'll be able to um promote your own Hammer rating in
your skill set and um we're working real close to the industry and when I say the
industry I mean like decision makers in national accounts in in uh architectural
firms in manufacturing everybody wants to use certifications or some measurable until
our industry has a accepts the a a standardized form of what what makes a
good installer we say certification in the last CFI convention I was at that was talked about a lot the problem is
there's so many levels to certific that is at R1 R2 C1 C2 Master what what
level do you want and does the consumer understand that so go career distilled that into a h into a score called The
Hammer rating as you guys know and it's a zero to five metric uh that takes into
account all that so um I didn't intend on this going down that path but I did
just want to say when you're place when when we're bringing new people in one of the things retailers need to think about
over the next you know five or 10 years is how are you backfilling your labor sources and how are you encouraging your
current Crews to um hire and train the
new Workforce that's coming in our job is you know as I see it is the
FCF uh whether it's there there's multiple CFI all of the different
training entities their job is to uh find and train new installers and then
get them in the workforce where go career steps in is placement and tracking of their advancement so that we
know as an industry how many new people are coming in how many new people are
getting trained where are they at in their training and then make sure these guys are gamefully employed in a
environment that that's um you know a growth environment for them essentially
it's going to create an algorithm too that that um could give us some some answers on
better chances of success rate you just got to get more people on board and um I want to go back and I know we're running
over right now but uh we kept saying training are replacement um back when I
started that's how I was viewed 100% how it was viewed I was always a young person I was one of the younger leaders
when when when I when I was first introduced to the industry um but as my brother and and everybody came along and
I brought friends and family it was never training my replacement it was more or less like um training and
informing my successor right because if you can't build a team around you that that is is going to essentially be at
your level or take take your um place in a pecking
order so that way you can move on and work on other things to kind of set that pace that then you're not doing yourself any favors for individual growth or
business growth um and that's the same same thing with sales right you don't
hire sales staff and say you're going to be a Salesman for me for 25 years and that's all you're ever going to do you know you limit somebody like that
they'll find something else that they like to do and they'll go somewhere else and the same thing for for in installation and installers you're not
training a replacement you're you're teaching someone um how to how to to do what you know how to do so that way you
can work on something else and and get better and then you'll teach them that too and you you know what if they get
better than you at what you're doing awesome they're GNA teach you something problem is Jose is that
there's still still too many guys out there or people out there because we're
not just guys anymore too many people out there that don't have that mindset
that that hurts that hurts the industry as far as bringing new people in I'm a
firm believer I mean we can look at the boards itself all the all the boards
things we go on on the the different sites you re you read more negative things
about the industry and from the installers that's been doing it for 2030 years saying how bad it is on your back
how bad it is on this how bad it is this why in the world would a young guy stumble across the site and see all this
and go into this industry so we we need to correct that
we need to get to they're not taking accountability for the way that they were taught is what it is right so you
all the it was bad but I didn't lift I didn't do everything the right way well
let's be clear I mean a lot of the the tools and and uh from knee pads to crab
stretchers to uh the the lighter uh Power stretchers I mean everything's
gotten way better right I mean that is no there's no doubt about it like I used
crappy knee pads you know we didn't have I mean prones were around but they
weren't like known when I first got in I mean I I didn't use my first crab
stretcher which you know in in commercial putting together 100 foot seams and such uh sure saves the knee
from kicking it you know kicking stain nael and to get a bow and skew out of a
a commercial carpet is no fun you know no the the fact is hurts just talking
about it yeah our industry's gotten a lot better and we should be able to attract you
know the younger crowd we are look the younger crowd is coming I think that we
have to just embrace the placement Embrace and you don't have to use jump
start like find the guys that are interested I'm just saying there is a resource out there that is available
where we're pulling in from multiple entities and trying to put you know the guys that have shown interest and
graduated and putting them in front of the people who need the labor if you if you're not using that that's fine but
use when you get a new guy pour into them pour into them and and teach them
that not only the way you were taught but the new techniques the new things that are out there you know equip your
Crews uh if they're by the hour equip them with the with the good equipment with a good personal protective
equipment you know great knee pads will go a long dang way I I tell you there's there's an army of PR people out there
that'll tell you how much it's made a difference in their life uh from that all the way to the fact that we're not
lifting as often in any manner especially in the commercial world but
in general like roll good carpet is a the cells have I mean just look at the
charts you know the cells are way down on broadloom carpet um we're not I
remember times of carrying 60 70 80 foot drops up two sets of stairs with seven
guys and we're all breaking our backs now I'm carrying carpet or loading
carple into the elevator because there's no way a broadloom would have fit in that elevator but I can just roll in
some you know it's a lot better industry today than it was back in the day in a
lot of ways and sadly a little bit void of some of
that mentorship that Roland was talking about earlier I'm saying let's bring back that mentorship it doesn't have to
be your cousin it just needs to be somebody or your brother or your uncle or whatever it just needs to be somebody
who's interested in the flooring industry they they're your flooring brother right there automatically and
then take them into your team teach them the right ways and let's see if we
can Thrive together and and build back up our uh our industry we get compared
or I hear a lot of Industry people um you know talk about the way that the
electricians or the plumbers do it because we're somewhat envious of the fact that yeah there's a a skilled labor
shortage overall but we're we're hurting worse or more than the electrician the
the plumbing industry and the reason for that is there's a clear path to become a
journeyman installer or a journeyman uh Electric there's a clear path to become
a journeyman plumber we want to create that clear path in an industry that 87% of all the
flooring is installed by subcontractors 1099 people so how do you do that that's
what we're trying to tackle through technology and we have the technology um
so it's it's it's not going to happen overnight but I hope that um you know
our industry recognizes that there's there's creative ways to uh improve
ourselves we also you know we we need to embrace technology as a as an industry
um I know that those plaques on the wall you learn something new each time that was a new technology today it just
happens to be computers and things of that nature that we need to embrace a bit yeah and I like the way you said
that too as far as um they have a clear path you're right um and
we could keep make when I say we I mean I like I'm always I've always looked at it until right now you just made me
realize something I've always looked at it like they have a clear path because the state and the city mandates it they
have to pass inspections they have to do all that but you know what just because we don't have to pass a lot of that doesn't mean that we cannot create a
clear path that doesn't sense at all it doesn't make sense at all so there again I just learned something thank you sir
thanks Paul because uh it instead of pointing the finger and saying this is why we you don't have a structured uh
curriculum and a structured path to to success or or to a label instead of instead of doing that
it's why don't we you know what because we haven't written it yet that's why yeah nobody else's
fault well it's time we come together as an industry and both
create um and work together to more clearly Define how a new person that
they have something to work forward that they they know that in three to four years that they can have what you were
talking about Daniel they can have what you have so to speak from a you know the skills and abilities uh side of things
and work towards a a a meaningful rewarding career in flooring that I I
sometimes hear people say that with zero conviction I'm telling you it can be a rewarding fulfilling career to be a
floring in installer that doesn't mean you have to do it for 60 years it just means that that you can do
it for the time that you want to do it as long as you're trained properly
you're working with good people and that the industry overall values you as an
individual very well put Roland any last words sir we ran
over here about 15 minutes I'm going to close her down appreciate you coming on board and sharing your experience and
your your your uh you know your years of of doing this and and it's it's
enlightening it's always a pleasure to listen to guys who have been there done that well you know I guess in closing
what I would say is that you know to build yourself a good team takes dedication on on all sides the the
retailer the sales people the installer uh it takes dedication to make
a good team um you know and and as far as the
you know making this a path of success uh there again um it's something that
you you're going to want to do as an individual uh block out all the negativity and that and and uh you know
go ahead and learn to trade I wasn't here to know exactly how you're going to get the people to understand the path
that you're you're doing with a jump start but we'll talk more on that yeah I I I uh invite those
conversations and I want to you know listen to people who've uh been through
the struggle um both in residential and commercial but retail you know there's a
huge need um to to help the the the new
people to me it's a travesty of see CFI and fcca and wfca and all these acronyms
uh are working so hard to bring new people in but there's no systematic way to get them to the next step and I'm all
ears on uh input on how that can happen we've built a piece of technology that can be
molded and and used but we're not you know we're not like uh you know who's
the guy on Facebook floor God you know yeah Mario asked you text me hey
Mario you know so at the end of the day um I want to I just want to improve our
industry overall and I think together with some teamwork and jumping on this podcast the the dedication that Jose and
Daniel have and you're on here often to Roland and and just the dedication you
guys have for the industry is admirable I appreciate it I know that industry appreciat give yourself credit I
wouldn't be here right now talking on this podcast if it wasn't for you sir so give yourself a little bit of credit
well thank you well guys with that I'm going to close her out appreciate you rolling
guys as always thank you so much for coming on and uh being such a anchor for
this thing and uh the movement appreciate the uh input and it's always
enlightening so until next week in fact I'll be talking you guys a little bit
later but until next week we will see the audience and if you enjoy some of the content please give us a like And
subscribe I'm Not Too Proud to Beg uh it gets more uh people uh exposed to some
of the concepts that we're talking about and you know at the end of the day Shone
information what's that share with share with everyone you know share it share it comment if you like it give us a thumbs
up hell even if you don't like it give us a thumbs down either way it's all good it all
counts all right guys we'll see you guys next week see all right see you all right see you
[Music] Roland
The Huddle - Episode 68 - Up & Coming; Technologies
This week the guys discuss some great technologies that are improving the industry we know and love, as well as the importance of integrating these technologies into our daily lives to improve how our business functions.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
industry you know really standing behind and pushing forward that forward
progress that let's get better so I'm gonna open by saying that I know
preferred flooring up in Grand Rapids uhoh
you guys you know kind of embrace technology at this point but you had a time when
you're like yeah I won't call you out Jose oops but your brother D's probably
a little more on the technical side no that's uh that's 100% accurate
and I will still I will still agree with that even though I am also using as much
as I possibly can I still agree that Daniel um is the one pushing the envelope here um if if he didn't say we
need this or hey check this out chances are I probably would never have looked at it so yeah Daniel is uh and it's
amazing the difference between six years uh and age does for school um you know I
left school I was getting done with school when technology hit him in high school and he like this dude grew up
with a laptop like I don't type very fast still right like it shows this dude sounds like he's
Mash I I used to download the the typing
programs and make him do it at home like said you gotta get better at this I'm
old enough that we had uh what do they call it keyboard class yeah yeah keyboarding that's what it was
keyboarding yeah see you guys did keyboarding and then I did computer class yes we just got a
keyboard and we and that was that was new like it was T typewriter before that
so that showing my age a bit um well I know the
one of the things like you guys use big technology companies you've you I know you use Microsoft teams and
Microsoft uh that that platform for doing a lot of your uh um communication
and taking care of your uh I know you use go careera as well for the for like
your uh work order systems and things like that but you also have teams that you use in scheduling and and getting
information to your Crews right yes like you guys use you guys look for
technology for those of you in the audience sorry uh that may not look for
it we're going to talk about a few one being go Carrera uh the other being uh a product
called uh Flor cloud and then bollins bollins Knows Best Man uh you know I
can't wait want to bring him up with his technology so to start out of the gate most of the
time that that I've been involved with technology and now I've built a a software
company it it was pretty intimidating to me um but I knew I wanted something to
do all these things for me so the be one thing I want to come out of the gate and
say is like be curious about it try it out you don't have to get in bed with
something and just stay there like check it out use it a little bit if you got a
free trial or or they have you know a free version that you can use at any uh
technology company get in there and get your feet wet I mean Daniel I'm gonna pick on you for a second is that how you
go when you when you want something done you just start searching and try things out well yeah so uh when the whole teams
thing I think we're like one of the smaller companies to use it right because uh I seen it and then it's like
all right this can do this and then then that's what I did I I looked at what we
already had so we are we're already using the Microsoft platform and teams was included because they're just trying
to get it into company's hands so I'm like start messing around with it and then I start asking other people hey do
you guys use this and they're like yeah and it's like huge companies you know it's World some some of the
people that I was talking to are work for worldwide companies it's like yeah this is what we use and it's like all
right how do you use this talk to another person how do you use this and then it's like taking bits and pieces
from everyone just to kind of put it together what we'd be able to use it
for and uh it's really one of those things that you don't know until you
start using it it's almost like if you put it in terms of just like um
actually getting hands on with material right yeah you're you're not going to know until you start putting your hands
on it like you can read as much as you want about it it's not until you actually start using it that it's like
hey this is actually really nice or we also had had software where it's like
there's got to be something better like this is just not it yeah I um that's how I do it I mean
it's same thing I just want to try let me get in there figure out what's really hard what's really good um you know
frankly a lot of it a different work order systems we' used um just lacked in
a lot of the things in go Carrera and the reason we started developing that um
of course all the labor side of it we've talked about before but from a technology piece being able to shoot
work orders to Geographic locations and have installers in that
area be able to respond just from a technology standpoint it sounds really
awesome you know like to be able to do that and you just got to try things out a lot
of the uh work order systems that we had used before and frankly we went from paper to
trying to find something that was gonna you know we had a problem with our guys losing their their paperwork that was
really the first problem we had that made us want to start looking for something digital and uh you know we
found a lot of uh those technology those different software products lacking but
here's the key we found a lot of the really great stuff that it did too and it changed the way we would use just the
great parts of it and it really changed the way that we um that we we looked at
it and I say that and what I mean mean by that is is it wasn't so scary right it got us
used to just trying things just try something like you're not gonna end the world just give it a shot technolog is
not scary just jump in like you said that you do with with flooring products
give it a shot try in an area or in a situation that's not going to be super
detrimental and uh you might just find that you found some really cool pieces of that because I'm sure you don't use
every single piece of teams right but you use right you use what really works for
your firm uh same with go Carrera some people just use it every once in a while
when they need an installer and they look at it as a labor platform some companies use it full bore like they
want they want the whole process because they can use it front to back from creating a work order to processing
payment and gain uh gaining lean releases there's there's um you don't have to do
everything with the software that's one thing that was really intimidating for me in the beginning is like if you
looked at a list of things that this software does you're like I don't need all that and that's a lot of work
and it seems hard jump in find the things that work really well for your company like you guys did it's so
admirable that you guys do that and honestly you said something right there it's uh it's going to be hard and it is
gonna be hard but once you have these things set up it becomes so much easier
like I don't I don't know where we' right now if we didn't have projects
organized like let me go check this project out this is this was sent on this day and then we've run into
situations where people are like you you guys never talked about this no one ever told us this and you go into teams and
it's like yeah my employee told you on this day that this was going to happen
and it's like no brainer anymore it's everything is so organiz that in
comparison it's organized right and it can get better and it's going to get better and and I know that
and you know coming from someone who never embraced technology to where where
I am now I'm ready to change the platform that we created because I have in my
brain better ways to do it now um I'm just ready to change it
up not going that right there is another good point for for somebody who I know you're
technical it's not like you're um ignorant to any of these things but you're you you get to
um understand a lot of this software Rhymes the way it works right it starts
to rhyme and you start to see some similarities and the way things move down through the path yes uh you know a
workflow that's why you can look at it and say hey I wish it I wanted to do this and I'll I'll do this to make it do
that and you can use that H and and more formulate it to your business whether
it's go Carrera teams uh will will throw out their floor Cloud just to start uh
give a quick introduction on floor Cloud floor cloud is a mobile um site
condition reporting uh technology so you put their sensors on your job site you can log
into their their cloud and you can see what the ambient temperature is if you have it Bluetooth to your Wagner meters
you can check your um check your uh RH from anywhere in the world well anywhere
with the internet um clarify um so you know some
people have the Bluetooth this is an example the same thing I was just talking about some people have it Bluetooth to the the Wagner meter some
just have the they want the ambient temperature you know and the the site
readings the key is doing some of these things and moving because a little bit
of progress can do can go a long way in how your business performs
overall um I know that a lot of people one of our big things that go career that's tough is the adoption of
Technology from the older installer um demographic they just don't want to mess
with it you know they the the and they're somewhat fearful of it but when
we walk them through and get them started and then they do their first work order and they start using the system they're like oh this is
easy that's one of one of the guys that we got on it that he was like really against it and it's like this this is
what we're using man like either get on board or we're going to I told them we're essentially we'll find someone
that will use it and you know he was reluctant but then you know after the first time he was like oh it's actually
really streamlined and then he said he said you you guys are the only company
that I do work for now that I don't have to physically go pick up a check yeah
how how awesome is that you know just giving it a shot taking that first step
you know and then starting break down that fear of Technology if anything in
this podcast I'm hoping to to portray to smaller flooring companies
and installers is dropping the fear of Technology like your
car there's not linkages and stuff like that well most most cars I mean some of
the old dudes they're not giving up their old 57 Chevy but you know what I'm saying today's cars like it's a computer
that's reading an algorithm that tells you to the blank blinker to turn on it's
not mechanical they give you the idea that it's mechanical by making it click
yeah but it's not you turn the wheel that's the computer telling this to make this happen and there's linkage involved
I know but I'm just saying like even starting your car key fobs and all this stuff like technology is embedded and
when you have to use it uh it can get it can be really frustrating if you choose
to use it it can be much less frustrating so choose to give it a shot guys quit being so and I'm talking to
the group that is fearful obviously don't be fearful of trying to use a new
piece of technology um you know I know that Flor Cloud had some of that reluctancy as
well like but once the people are using it now they're telling other people about it
so it's taking the first step um ballin's uh Ballin knows best Kim
ballin's you know AI kind of driven uh Q&A basically right send them a question
they'll give you an answer um that piece I know that guys are
reluctant just to call a phone number and send a Text uh I've talked to my guys about it
they're starting to understand like okay you don't have to do it on everything um
his a little bit uh new so there's not as much complexity to it but as it gets
more complex you know my my preaching my my
uh my Ploy here is don't be scared to try out those new things you'll find out that you're going to be more effective I
know you guys have and I I can attest to it in our company when we started embracing technology we became more
efficient it helps uh helps bridge that gap between uh someone who communicates
well and someone who doesn't and all they have to do is download an app or just get on board and then there's a a
central location and that's that's across the board no matter what technology you're using and uh I I went
when I was learning how to use uh I forget what program one of the first measure programs we had you know I went
out of state bird class and uh the the first one I went to the gentleman said something to me that kind of I applied
to everything he said you already know how to do it in your brain and you already know how to do it on paper all
we're doing with the computer is transferring what you already you know how to do onto this the only thing you
need to learn is how to navigate and and mo most everything we use now is customizable
so that's really what I I think about when we talk about technology because
you were reluctant at first to actually use one of the measure programs and you know we worked a lot with Bob over at
Welsh and he was he was kind of the same way and it's like until you start again until you
start using it and actually start you know going through prints and drawing them you don't realize how much time you
can actually save from doing everything like a takeoff
on a paper print because oh man think about it in terms of some of these
projects that we've been doing right it's like I got to price it out with three different materials and in order to get three different prints and do
stuff like that that's craziness oh h lost signal but when we were um just the
last time we were at CFI convention and talking to floor cloud and how they went through their platform and showed us
like this is a live project right now and I'm going to pull it up and we can
see how many different
uh different RH probes that they had and this one is reading high and these ones
are all fine but this is our our Focus area now we need to get this one make sure that this one gets all all squared
away before uh this project can go and to know that you can just go online and
say this one is still not ready I was supposed to have guys out there in two days they're not going to be out there
in two days what what do we got to do to remedy this situation yeah and it's the same thing is uh now you have now you have a
projects and job sites communicating with you instead of making an hour and a half drive a three-hour Drive depending
on how large and and where the project is located um if if you work for
companies and you do work uh for hotel stays a lot uh you can monitor that you
know and say they must not have their uh their windows closed and this temperature is
fluctuating too much or uh this RH isn't dissipating something else has got to be
done it's good to have all that information uh before you go there and have to do all the old manual testing uh
PRI PR to getting started now you know what to do what to look for right away
and that that's the thing right with um talk about you know Bon knows best and how that's aiid
driven and there was I think it was about a week ago or
so where one of the companies was using one of those AI platforms
to see if there was a better way for them to to code or whatever and they ended up putting in a lot of proprietary
information that the company was did not want to out and that is the thing I
think a lot of people are worried about is because once you do get into some of these
platforms information out it's out there forever right you're you're never able
to to get that back and that's what this company learned and now they actually banned
anyone using the AI platform in in their company that's crazy yeah
and it's like we're talking about like lines of code that no one else was supposed to know and now it's out there
forever now yeah the code's gonna be there AI is gonna retain that information and apply
it if someone asked the right series of questions yeah and that's the thing it's it's good and bad because it's
constantly learning by whatever you're making it back on you're telling it but at the same time
it's it's also that information is there forever so if you're trying to have secrets that's really not the route to
go as far as the uh the other technology um and I'm always going to revert back
to what I know because that's the only thing that that that I'm familiar with is is the measure programs um we used to call them napkin
drawings people go to the job sites and draw on a napkin or piece of paper and then you get that uh this fixes that um
all you oldtimers out there it's just a matter of uh learning how to navigate the program
so that way you can get on on I will say paper but you can get into the the system what is in your head
already and the time savings on Switching materials to five different
variations with a click of a button well just think about in terms of
commercial I made it I don't know how long my internet access is pretty uh sketchy so hopefully
I hey we filled it we filled it in for you thank you um in terms of like commercial
projects you think about it and sometimes you know we'll get a bid and it's due if in like three days and it's
like without some of these programs it's it would be impossible I wanted to bring up another
uh another technology quickly that I just found out about that we're going to start we're
going to give a shot but essentially you take a picture of a room
and you can send it in or you upload it and it'll give you uh I don't know if you guys have
heard of this thing but it'll actually give you the square footage of the room anything you ask for about that room it'll give you square footage it needs
just a little bit of information I'm kind of learning um but it takes
standard measurements off of like counters and and uh couches things like
this and it it sets the scale and it knows the camera angle and it does all
these algorithms and it what's it called room scanner is that
the one you're using there's a couple of them out there oh is it is
it I thought I was like if it works and I can do some small jobs go in and take
a picture and get a takeoff like I'm down I'm going use it have you tried it
I've worked with the beta that I have right now um and they released it did
they release it okay so I breaking up again I guess oh can you hear
me can you hear me can you hear me um well I used a um at the time it
was a beta program and um there are still some glitches in it right like the
recognition like it doesn't recognize some things it kind of Blends shapes together but um I'm sure that they've
fixed that if they released it to the public so that's the thing it's
um they use on the iPhone the ldar to
actually it shoots out dots and that's where they get the measurements and stuff from so it's uh the program he's
talking about is for iPhones only which is pretty limited until Android starts
implementing the same technology if they do did I say Samsung no you said Android
okay if they do at all but I mean you're talking um and when I I
had a meeting at the last surfaces with one of the manufacturers and they were going to start implementing this
technology too and the the thought behind it is is that you can have um and
this was more residentially focused because on Commercial projects they a little bit bigger and different but it's like hey I want this room done they can
take their phone scan it for you send it to you you have all the measurements you know where the doors
are and the the actual rendering that it does it does you can make it so that
it's like an entire 3D rendering so you can see exactly what's in the room you can see the furniture that's in it you
can see what's in the next room it's I mean we're talking about technology this
stuff is going to actually come a long way with in the next couple years to where you you may not have to go to a
customer's house to even measure you're gonna have everything put the product in there send them the
quote and I think that that's a question that I had too during that that um webinar we attended was Will I'd be able
to send out an invite to a client and have them scan their own room and then they then they can upload it to my link
that I sent them and then I don't even have to go there yeah speaking
about about this Jeremy says that he can hear you but I don't we don't know if anyone can hear Paul he you you're doing
a lot of freezing I don't know if you wanted to turn your video off to see if that helps a little
bit and you're on your laptop good idea I yeah so I'm I got all kinds of stuff
going on over here speaking of Technology yeah I know speak
that um I don't know you guys hear me better with the video off yeah yep yes
we do it's a nice picture too by the way thank
you um so I guess the point that I wanted to
really get across and that I think you guys display and is uh I think really
important for all of us is give it a shot uh you know go career is coming out with jumpstart we're we're just days away
from launching that where companies will be able to hire the new guys coming into
the industry from the fcef and several other of the organizations be able to
hire them and make offers right off of right off of a a phone um I know that like some of scary
the stuff you guys do sounds SC but
Dr fear and being uh being willing to try some new stuff I think that's like
the the big message I wanted to get lastly because we're going to close this thing down a little bit early today we
had a few everybody in our audience uh things with the podcast are going to get a little bit more uh structured and and
uh crisp we're crisping up the the studio back at go Carrera uh just to
make the experience a little bit better we have some sponsors coming on board uh
it'll be very short I'm not going to make you guys watch a bunch of ads but there's going to be some sponsors that I think you know about um and then
the structure of it all will be a little bit we want to keep the conversation
piece that's what I love about it these guys are my friends on top of doing this stuff we hang out man love it yeah
so I don't want to lose the conversational piece but just a little bit more uh of the a little more
scripted from uh key points that we hit during a
topic and here is my ask of the audience like And subscribe continue to watch us
and please give us some ideas on what you would like for us
to we already have coming up in 24 four or five different
guests and that's just getting going we're going to have a lot more guests and we'd love some of our audience to
come on um and be a guest as well and at least tell us what you've gotten out of
the Huddle we're going to do one of those coming up in the near future uh what's the Huddle done for me and um you
know get some of our audience on and and discuss some of the stuff that maybe we were able to uh disc you know talk about
on the podcast that helped out uh it I know it's fulfilling for me that's why I
do it um you know I know you none of us get paid to do this we just get in here and
rrap about flooring and how to how to better better the industry so at the end
of the day giving us some suggestions giving us some love through like and subscribing to our various channels and
to PF fling's various channels and uh being engaged 2024 is going to be a
great year I'm looking forward to kind of a revamping of the podcast starting starting then so I'm going to keep
reminding everybody of that as we go uh each each one of our episodes leading up to the end of the year but I'd like 2024
to have just a bit more structure a little bit more um variance in topics
and more audience participation along with more guests and not getting all Joe Rogan on you we're just trying to uh
Stay Stay crisp on our messaging while still getting to just hang out and rap a
little bit yeah I I like the the conversational piece too I mean but just like
everything that we talk about uh a little bit more structure in everything
would never hurt right y it's about being efficient right and getting to the point and and and and solving solving
issues before they they become an issue yeah so IDE we're going to keep the keep
the uh podcast closer to about this time uh which is about 30 minutes as opposed
to our hour so that's going to be another big goal and that's why like keeping on topic with the the bullet
points and and and kind of being really crisp with our messaging will help and
allow us to still be conversational and get you all the information within 30 minutes but if it runs over who
cares yeah half hour 45 is good but sometimes the conversation just uh gets
away and some of that's my fault I do get sidetracked quite a bit go on tangents in the conversation Jeremy said
that we should do one about what to do when job sites aren't ready awesome thank you Jeremy we I
think uh job site preparedness is a is a good one yeah and I just missed the the
um webinar today with fcica is that what it was about yeah dude yeah was so out
FCC records them though so you'll be able to watch it yeah but I like participating and asking questions and and just making comments
like poking the bear I like poking the bear well gentlemen um I appreciate you
guys for for everything and thank you for last week covering covering for me and and uh uh thanks again for today and
hopefully the audience just like like I said take the first step with technology
don't be scared that one thing you've been thinking about trying go give it a try and uh I look forward to hearing
some success stories on some of the the content we've created here in
2024 and uh with that I'm Gonna Let You gentlemen go to the
audience you know stay Innovative and let's uh let's get ready for a awesome
last quarter of this this year and and a great setup for 2024
100% all right thanks guys have a good one man see you all right we'll see you thanks everyone
bye
The Huddle - Episode 67 - Balancing Work and Life
In this episode, Daniel and Jose are solo and discussing balancing work & home life; from where they make sure to find balance to where they could improve themselves and some advice along the way.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up everybody Paul's night here he uh had some clients come in and
had to take care of them so it's just Theos today talking about
uh balancing work and life and we were just talking about before we started this how we're probably the worst people
to talk about this because I don't think we really have that that situation nailed down
right now I think uh we are pretty bad at that
a lot of the times were I mean just look at me like when was it two weeks ago I got my tonsil out on Monday and then I
was already back in the office on Tuesday but I think a lot of people can
relate because that's that's the way they are too right I mean especially if you're an owner operator if you're not
working you're not making money well if you're not working and you're
not trying to find work you're you're you're leaving gaps in your schedule too so I guess
uh like like Daniel said though like uh and sorry guys I'm on the road again as always I'm I'm actually almost to the
office I didn't make it um got stuck but there is no balance uh for for me
right now for for us I would say and it's hard because we're
depending on what part stage you're in in your business um or working for someone
doesn't you don't have to be a business owner but it depends on where you're at in life freedom and how
much Freedom you choose to have I guess um to have that work life uh work home
life balance um I I will say that and Daniel too is is I put myself
in a very bad awkward position to do my very best to attend all of my kids
sports um lot of late
nights you might want to turn your uh your camera off because you're breaking up a
lot all right there we go I'm going through all the trees right now but um how much of that did you
catch that that you uh try making it to all your kids
events yeah I I do my best to try to make it to all my kids events and then that might mean putting work on the back
burner for a couple hours um but I don't always go home after those
events I go back to work to catch back up um everybody wants everything done for
them right now or yesterday and that we're just a small team but we
try to do a lot of things for for everyone um we may overextend ourselves
most of the time uh but it's not always that busy uh just gota gota keep pushing forward and
hopefully and hope that you can have that balance
ini I seen a a post on Facebook right that they have it's a picture that says
you know in 20 years the only people that remember that you worked late are
your kids and that can go either way right because I look at it like I hope
they remember that to to see how hard I worked to give them the life that they
had but also that's where that balance comes in because we do take all the time
out in order to make it to most of their events yeah it's it's hard I
mean this summer was very hard uh overc committing I definitely overcommitted uh
the kiddos to sports but um I don't I don't ever want them to
not have something going on uh because it's inconvenient for me so they want to play ball we'll let
them play ball they want to play fall ball I'll let them play fall baseball football wrestling basketball whatever
whatever they want to do right now while they're young because when they get a little bit older it's not going to be the case and I know it um they got to
find what they like now so that way we can focus on what they love later uh and
that means a little bit of sacrifice on I might be half for time
but so all and all hopefully the balance comes later I guess is what I'm saying hopefully the balance comes later it's G
to be a little bit hectic right now it's like having the uh the the messy room right you know where everything's at
it's a mess but eventually you're going to find time to clean it up and then you're going to be able to enjoy it
well Rin is Rollin says hi and he's going to stay on here as long as he can
but just look at him like even you last year at CFI convention right you brought
your your family down there Rin had his wife and his grand kids with them this
year and it's like maybe that's part of the deal too right is introducing them
to to stuff like that because you don't always have to separate everything you
can inter mingle of the two you can bring your your personal life over to
work I mean just at the office here my our kids are here all the
time yeah I guess uh I guess you're right I guess you're right about that so may maybe there is more balance than
than we think or maybe we're just justifying it now I
don't I don't know and Rin says they do remember but when they start working
they understand and I kind I kind of feel that right because you look at back in the day you're like man I mean we
grew up with a single mom right and she's always working she had to and it's
like to she was always working but she like us tried to make it to events so I
remember her being at my concerts and stuff and falling asleep but you know what she was there she was there I
remember that too I remember sitting next to her while she fell sleep and then just laughing right but you you
look at it years later and that that's exactly the thought right like at least she was there at least she was trying
and that's really all you can do as a parent yep mad respect
mom and then you look at you know people that that have hobbies like Zach blows
glass and he'll work here he'll come to work and then right when he's done working he's like I'm go blow some glass
right he's got to get his his Hobby in there too and for a while he was I mean
he was gearing up for like I don't know what what you call it a show or a festival or something where he was
setting up a boo toell some stuff but I mean he was kind of overextending himself but I mean he was doing what he
loved to do and and you can't really knock him for
that you know yeah that's just that's just go the show too like uh you're right
um my my career my work supports my hobbies my hobbies are part of my
balance um and part of me being able to to maintain sanity because everybody
needs an outlet um now that I'm a little bit older and I have and I have kids my kids
are very much part of my hobby my habits um
because I no longer play ball I no longer uh gravel like that's not a
priority to me they are my priority so I I I do my very best to put their stuff
first before any hobbies of mine but I enjoy their stuff too so it's it's really it's really a was right like I
love I love being here well it's like um even when you were playing ball and
working in the field and stuff you still be
the the owner operators that that we were and still are right it was especially when we were in the field it
was like we got all this stuff to do so I would work from Monday through
Thursday as many hours as I could to make that cushion for Friday because I knew I wasn't going to be
there yes 100%
and be because you still had deadlines right you still you still had uh or we
we still had deadlines and that's the thing too is yes we we we do have a benefit of
being able to to kind of do that and work longer hours we're when we're in the field but
um and it's going to be different when your owner operator versus employee or versus uh um uh someone else who is well
off and doesn't need the the financial backing to enjoy themselves or or find that balance
but I still had a commitment to you as my brother to not leave you high and dry
right because I know if I put you in a bad spot then it put you in a bad spot with your family you wouldn't be able to have that time with them either or go
enjoy your hobbies so so we did do that we did we did kind of bust our ass so
that way we could enjoy the one day of our hobby or one day of family
time um that we might have had I think that's the one thing that throughout you
know us having preferred flooring is we've always been pretty set
on not just like not just the weekends but specifically Sundays we are not GNA
work on a Sunday and that that was for like the night jobs because they always wanted us to start on Sundays and it's
like no I'd rather work 80 hours from Monday through Thursday than to work
especially nights on a weekend yeah Sunday was definitely uh Sunday's
definitely for my family and uh before I had kids I every Sunday I would I'd play
softball all day I'd be at the the ballpark from 900 am until whatever
900m um or at tournaments but yep once uh once my son was born that is wi net
stopped 100% Rin says that the biggest thing
that he found that worked for him was to listen to his kids that's what the children remember
that he cared to hear them and it's like I guess I never really asked my kids I
just assumed that they want me to be at everything but that's because you know there I know Tanya one time went to a
she was at Caitlyn's bachelorette party for one day of the tour of one of his
tournaments and he still says oh Mom remember you miss my stuff all the time she missed like two games two games in
the past like five years yeah yeah that's that's uh so ran
you're right man you're right brother like uh the kids are kids are gonna [Music]
remember Ks are GNA remember the times that you weren't there rather than the times that you were they're going to remember everything that you missed
rather than the things that you were because as a parent man we're supposed to be there right as a a even if you're
not a parent and you're part of a support system and uh you know that's one of the things like if you're there
that's awesome but then remember that remember if it's something important and you didn't make it so always try to make
time for your family guys and try to make time for yourself that's the one thing that that balanced to like time
for my family is time for myself because I enjoy it right to an extent to an extent there
is there is that uh my kids do get a little annoy sometimes yeah Elena says being there
physically is not the same as being there mentally you have to clear the mental space for the family as
well and uh I think just looking looking at looking at
it personally right I listen I listened to the audio book um the miracle morning and had a
couple other people listen to it and started going to the gym early in the morning and that it really does it
really is like a Clarity moment for you just time for
yourself put my headphones in work clear my mind and you don't realize how big
that is until you start doing
it yeah that's I like that uh the book The 5 AM club man wish I I get some sleep through
the night I have been burning that midnight already for for a very long time though um
I'm just doing it because I have to find that balance to with uh with with the kiddos
um do you know that we had Sports every day of the week
except for Wednesday through the whole summer and then sometimes it was even
Wednesday man that really that really hurt the old time the
old time St but that that's the thing like with us though it's we constantly take our
work with us right because we're in the day where you got a computer in your
pocket now so it's real easy to just get a call hey what's going on with this let
me check on it for you and then with everything being in the cloud it just makes it that much
easier plus we're constantly taking our computers and stuff with us like uh when
we went to the Bahamas and December and I mean I think I I had a couple bids
do and every morning I would wake up the same time I would wake up here and work
and then once everyone started waking up that's when I was like all right this is that's my time let's go do something as
a family so it is it is that
balance So like um is that is that frowned upon like because I know that like you said so we could take our work
wherever um is that can that be considered balance
right like well Tanya said it's it makes it harder to separate the two because
it's we're we're constantly having that ability to do it but it's the
convenience of it that makes it difficult not to I mean remember when
she came with us she said yes it's frowned upon
but like when she came with with us to Vegas the first time when I went and
competed and she would stay in the the room and work right it's it's kind of
the same thing I think but she's listening to me she'll probably comment if it's not the
same thing well is this um you know some people have the luxury of uh of putting
in PTO and and being able to to have a separation and separate work from from home life uh unfortunately my my for me
my my work is my home life my home life is my work and everything that I do is based around
um is based around what we do right because not only it not only are are we
in business together as family but we work together and we're family and our our families are actually very are very
close so it's it's hard to go somewhere and not think
about family or work or both at the same time or how we can get or how we can get
one of our kids to come work because we always need help that too
um you know and and we Network when we're out like we're
even though we're not working we're working even though when we're not you know we don't have a computer in front
of us or we're not on the phone or or or trying to respond to a text message or email um we're all socializing we're
still working um it's just a different different kind of work um Social
Capital there there's balance too and you know we talk about family but what about what about friends and all that
you know as as you get older your circle gets smaller so it's a lot easier to find balance I guess when it comes to the friends because usually the the
family friends they'll come over to the house and that that perks a a no-brainer like
who stands out um over the course of years uh where you could pick up a
conversation where you left off and you didn't see somebody for a year right uh but everybody has families now too and
they're all doing their own thing and you got to respect that can't expect them to put their family on the back
burner to come and say hi to you reminisce about the old days
but it's always nice to catch up and find that introduce your kids to your friends that that you grew up with or
their kids matter of fact um Kelly that that we played fall ball
with in in Al like I've known that dude since I was I don't know 11 years old 10
years old and we have a kid the same age now and got him together to play ball
together he played fall ball with us we played fallball with him um it was it was fun that that's
nice that's like full circle type things right I think it's it's awesome seeing the the people that I went to high
school with going to the the same you know their kids are going to the same schools and they're a lot of our kids
are within a few years of each other and seeing them at the football games and stuff like that it's pretty pretty
awesome Kyle says um that we've learned how to charge enough to be able to
create free time instead of slave away to be able to afford the bills learn how to run a business instead of just being
an installer that's a huge step towards Freedom creating balance means going as
hard for your family as you do for your business and then right after that Tanya says that I've gotten a lot
better so that which is true right because when we first started and we say this all the time we were working seven
days a week like it was a straight up hustle we were grinding it
was work work work because we it was that that mindset where it was if I'm
not working today not getting paid tomorrow right yeah I mean it still kind
of is the the back your head because that's how we grew up um you know it it
can all be gone in the blink of an eye right don't take anything for granted um you know this two this that that thing
that this two shall pass so but can't just apply that to work and Kyle's right
um I don't want to say our our prices reflect being able to have free time that's that's really not what it is
that's just a reflection of the amount of effort we put into to getting better at our Craft um and the amount of effort
and and the backing like I got gota back that right like we gotta back that with with our
with with our finances you know we don't there's no in there's no insurance for
for bad installs you do a bad job there's nothing that you can pay for on a membership or monthly basis that that
will pay for uh for dumb installs um or bad choices so yeah we invest in
ourselves but that's also one thing investing in ourselves that does that's what gives us more time um we learn how
to be like you said more efficient um man that does give us a little bit
more time and and go to cool places like Florida last year you're right when I took my family that was nice I mean I I
don't want to do that again but that was nice that's that's a that's a fun headache
right those are the times where no vacations with a more work than
it is vacation it's more work going on
vacation with I'm gonna come in the
office oh he's coming inside right now cuz he just got
here I don't Kyle says that we learn how to we
learned our worth and provide value which is that's what what
everyone should be working towards anyways but I think it's more than that
because we're one of the only the only flooring companies over
here I don't know if we are not but we were definitely kind of started it
was providing the PTO and everything for the installers because everyone else is
just on a 1099 and we kind of seen that value in US wanting to do it why
wouldn't we want the employees to do it as well it ends up giving have more time to
they're investing in themselves in their future and if they have a family they can use that PTO to hang out with their
family they like Rollins says uh his 49th wedding
anniversary is is that Tuesday or Thursday come
on should he take the day off he said that like a like a straight up masul turst
[Laughter] thirst sorry guys good he take it the
day off for his wedding anniversary uh yes it's only the 49th though the you
gota wait till the 50th for the day off I think yeah you can't make a deal big
deal about this one you gotta make a big deal about the next one right I don't know I think I'm the wrong person to ask
for all that Tanya says Rin that's a weekend
playing um and don't listen to me appar I think this turned into a episode of us
justifying our our viewpoints on how we find balance for ourselves right because
we're justifying it the way a business owner would instead of the way a family
um would look at it so like if anybody out there has better information or more information or find or has had some
success in a different approach um and I'd love to hear it anybody who has a
different Viewpoint besides owner operator um but if you're married to an owner operator or involved with one then you
can't you don't count because because your Viewpoint is gonna be biased
100% well um that's our fault too though but I think over over the course of the
years that we've been in business not only have we tried to get better about things but they've also tried to get
better about it as well and not getting as angry when you're like well I have to work till 7:30 8:00 tonight because I
got a bid due that that's due tomorrow and they don't care what excuse you have I had to go pick up my kid that don't
that don't matter if the bid is due at at 12: pm and if you're one minute late
sometimes it's done yeah opportunity missed um or like me yeah I only got
like an hour I gotta get this one thing out and then my computer starts messing up and I got to figure that out I'm no
computer with so it takes me a little bit of time to to get my feedback under me um the other day though I I did the
last couple days when I worked late I did leave my computer at home because if I bring it
home I'll straight I'll say oh you know what I forgot to send
this I forgot to look at this let me go grab my computer and then I get stuck working at the dining room table and
that's not fair to my kids when I'm there so I I have left it left it at the
shop yeah Kyle says he think everyone is going to work at their own Dynamic what
works for someone may not work for someone else and that's 100% accurate right and that's why you have people
that it it takes a different mind set to actually run a business and to work for
yourself because if you're not really self-motivated you're really not going
to end up getting anywhere because there's and that's one of the
misconceptions right because a lot of people are like oh you you own your own business you have so much money you can do whatever you want when it's like no I
have my own business that means I have to work twice as much as everyone else because there's there's so many things
that can go wrong and we have to try and prevent those on the front
end but it's you just don't know and that's what
makes you just keep on grinding and trying to
to get as much work as possible and then you end up getting yelled at for
scheduling work through a weekend that I haven't told anyone about yet
but well now you know it was the schedule that they had so now you
know yeah I think I'm pretty much spent on on the on this because like I'm
just open to to ideas um you put me in a position to go work
all day every day I will go work all day every day I will find something to do I'll find something to read find
something to learn um I would have no balance if it wasn't for my kids I would
have no balance if it wasn't for um for family saying stop working
right like I wouldn't I would just I would work like the other day I went put what
I was out in the field for what six hours and came in here to put eight hours in the office we didn't have no sports that day
what do you want me to do go spend time with my kids right I think sometimes it's easier when like the kids have
practice to be be able to just be like all right I'm gonna go pick you up drop you off over here come back over here
because the school is what four minutes away yeah five minutes four minutes so it's just so convenient to be like
all right I'm GNA drop you off I'm come back here I'm gonna do an hour and a half of work go pick you back up go
home and then Elena says it's different with everybody when she grew up she felt like her dad was there for everything
and that her mom would disagree but if she remembers him being there that was quality time right because it doesn't
matter what you're doing your your parents are there that's that should be quality time I would think because that's what we do like even when they're
on the field that's I mean that's what we pay for right is here go entertain
me but her brother says that her brother says that Dad was never home and always
putting work first I would I would kind of wanna ask your brother now how he feels
about it now that that you're older you know that that's one thing let that as
far as viewpoints is it might look like like I put work first or Daniel puts work first but realistically we're
putting our family first right because if we stop grinding we could lose what we have and
that's what it is and until we're at a point where where we don't have to invest so much of our own time to to
have um to have something successful or something succeed on its own and and
self-sustain itself um then that's it like I mean I would I wouldn't sit at
home all day every day but if I didn't have um the pressure of providing for my
family or making sure that I'm doing the best to help provide for employees and their family and and making sure I'm not
putting Daniel and his family in a bad spot like it would life would be a lot
easier but that's not what I'm about it's not who I am I
gotta work hard no matter if I'm working for myself or somebody else I think if you you look at it in terms of like um
winning the lottery right it's like you ask someone what would you do if you won the lottery and then people will start
being like buy this buy that right I'm like man if I won the lottery we could expand the business and not have to
worry about all the finances that we're doing right now um have a building can
rent out can do a little like a because you know I think if you look
looking back when I when I started when I was 12 right I was always like this is something I don't want to do I hated
flooring and then you just keep on doing it and it and it becomes second AG a
mindset to where it's this is going to be my career and then eventually it turned into a passion right and that's
why we go to the conventions and stuff like that because got to hang out with other flooring nerds that think the same
way you do and you know what that that right there is another balance right there and um we
go we don't only go because it's about flooring we go for the people um and it
it recharges us whenever we go to a place like that it just they want 100% does and it's uh if somebody told you
any anything different um then they're going for all the wrong reasons
um it just kind of puts the passion back into it revitalizes us gives us uh more
ideas and conversations like this podcast about balance
um a lot of a lot of family conversations go on at places like that
and it's very much appreciated and Tanya says she always
tells the kids that no one grind harder than their dad I work I work to get stuff done and
I still make it to games practices and rehearsals and yeah and the kids get super angry sometimes because if you got
to be to practice at 5: I will get you there at 5 you want to be there 15 minutes minutes early sorry it probably
not going to happen but I'm still getting you there and I think that's something that they're not going to
realize until they get put in that situation where it's like man I can't believe like even some of the other
parents were like I can't believe how much you guys do like having three kids doing different sports
and having to drive people everywhere it's like I don't know either
but it's it's not something that you think about it's just something that has to get done so it's like boom go over
here pick you up drop you off come back to work pick you up and it's like oh I gotta go I gotta go my son
supposed to be there in five minutes have you ever heard you love your work more than
her I don't know if Tanya has ever said that I love my work more than I love
her I don't think so probably just getting angry because I just working all the time but she has gotten a lot better
over the years I don't know I've never really like hung out with my tool pouch like
that I love [Music] you but
it I mean the the work life balance man it's
just you find it's all it's all relative to who you are and what you do it's
making sure that you're happy and your house is happy and that's
really really what it comes down to and it's it's a constant Evolution too right
because it went from working seven days a week basically 24 hours a day because
it was at the time we were working what an hour and a half away when we first
started every day for like six months basically so we would leave in the
morning not get back and then it's like eat something go to bed do it all over
again Jeremy said it's tougher for the installer still on their knes to be able to take them to practices and games
depending on the time of course um yes and no I mean if you have set hours and
you're still not making it then then that's on you if you work for a place that all you have to do is communicate
and say hey this is what we're doing this summer as a family my daughter my son is playing
sports I'm pretty sure most places will help you and work with you but if you wait till last minute and drop bombs on
people when um there's no it's just a surprise like anything
else right but if you plan for it and then that's what you're trying to do most employers will help work around it I mean we got people now that coach we
got a um uh a guy who's got uh things to do
like twice a week he's got his his own thing that he's got going on and we get it and that's the thing right it's like
hey can I to have someone come in and be like can I come in an hour early because I
got to leave an hour early today or hey I got to do this in the middle of the day but I'll still come in after that
and make up that that time it's I I just think that's where the mindset from an
owner and an employee is though because an employee just like hey I got stuff to do I'm just
leaving but if you have that different and you don't have to be an owner to have the mindset because we were like
this back when we were working for people too it's like I have something to do but I still know that I have this job
to do and it has to be done at this time so I can fit it in if I do it like this
and then I'll come back and it's I mean Jeremy's seen me do it when we were
working at at the hospital it's like I'm leaving my son has the tournament on Friday so I'm G to I'm there till 89
o'clock every day because I'm making up those hours that I would have worked on Friday but I'm doing it throughout the
week and sometimes you don't have that luxury um the projects but that you're
on don't allow you to to work when someone's not there to babysit you on a commercial project anyway but um I think
as long as everything's communicated I think it can be worked out with enough time uh but that's part of the balance
right communication is part of the balance communication is part of everything that we do um any anything you do moving forward you gotta commun
communicate with your kids the coach uh the the mother like like everything
right yeah and that's what T says work life balance means treating your family the way you would treat your business
with care and consideration and I think that was probably one of my faults for a
long time was I was too focused on one instead of to the other like like she said earlier I like you can be there
physically but not mentally right and you can go and do all these things but
unless your your mind is there too then it really doesn't count and I think um
when we started listening to a lot of audio books and stuff like that sometimes you have
to to look outside of yourself and realize that someone else even if it's just
listening to an audio book or reading a book and taking some bits of information from different sources can help you out
in the long run and communication was one of those things and now we talk
about communication all the time it's like what is the biggest part of running
a business communication what is the biggest part of running a household communication and it's communicating
with everyone on how how things are going how they should go and really
like since we're talking about work life balance right we got to communicate with how you feel and tell people at
home dude I got a magnet board at my house with weeks and chores and that's
what I use here at the shop for uh um for projects and and allocating
Manpower uh yeah everybody knows how to use
it is easy even the kids can use it kids move their their their chores around we
have it's a team effort to make sure that there is balance and balance is maintained that's for sure and your team
is your house your team is your crew your team is your employees your co-workers like you all around A Team uh
you all work together if somebody's got something important to do at the end of the week and they have a goal and they
and I want them to reach that goal I want them to get out of work you know and it's not as as an owner is not a a
money grabber have them do more work it's just I remember I used to feel bad when
I work for someone and feel guilty having to to take a vacation and take two days off at the at the end of a busy
work week so I would still do those extra hours I left on a Thursday morning I would work I probably still work 40
hours Monday through Wednesday to make sure that my team wasn't in a bad spot so that way there was peace when I when
I left and peace when I came back um yeah J Su says there has to be a lot
of communication with family and work and it's hard right sometimes you have to sacrifice
yourself and I mean it's hard either
way like have I missed bids because things were going on yes have I
missed kids things because I had too much work going going on also yes and
it's it sucks either way but in the long
run I another bid will always be there but missing that performance or
something like that you'll never be able to get that back so and I've been a bad uncle about that lately man I've been
trying to I got too many nephews and nieces to try to go to other stuff with my kids playing though that's the
problem is I think the problem is we all have too many kids that do things in it that's I said we made one fall ball game
for your son good enough that's that checks that checks the box like I already made a football game for the
nephews and the one game I was supposed to make is the day my computer messed up and I was here till one o'clock in the
morning trying to fix it and that that was on a Wednesday and that was our day off and my son wanted
to go everybody came in the town and I I got stuck so right now my work life balance thing that I have going on is
we're doing the podcast right now and then when we're done with this I'm about
to turn everything off and then go grab Tanya and Arya and then we got um
marching band today
yeah oh my god um you know what they had a little bit
more balance and this is a shout out to Kyle uh when I we were in that group together when I was in the his uh
Mastermind group uh we did a year I think I was with you for a year uh every
other week for a year and I I did I did make a lot more I was more intentional at making
time for the family during that whole time but we had a couple good groups of of people that were very family oriented
and it kind of boost you so so maybe that's another thing is is find surround yourself with the right people um that
enjoy family time and maybe that that energy will transfer over
yeah and then Tanya did take some time off work so she can go drop him off at the school so I didn't so I could
actually do the podcast today so thank you Tanya oh Jus is in Vegas right now hey
go hit another jackpot yeah but I mean I don't I think this is
about as far as we can go today we've covered a lot and like I said we're
probably not the best people to talk to about work life balance we just V after you guys for a while that's all we did
yeah at the same time I think um it was a good conversation because a
lot of people in the industry can probably relate and you know take something away from this as far
as you got to pick and choose what what your what's more important
sometimes and it's not saying that one is like significantly more important or
one significantly less important it's just man if I really want this bid I'm
going to stay here till 9 o' tonight to get it sometimes that's what has to happen as long as you can go back the
next day and make that game everything's all good even if you go to a concert and
fall asleep watching it like that's legit that's how I watch
movies with my kids sleep I'll say movie night and they're all excited they'll put on a movie that I have no interest
in watching and we'll cuddle and I'll sit there in 10 minutes in Tanya and Arya don't let me do that
oh also you can't watch TV and be on your phone at the same time because Arya
don't like that either that's good good for her good for
her but I think uh we're all set today guys don't forget to
uh check out everything on uh social medias like subscribe go on you know the podcast
channels and and listen if you don't get us don't catch us live and share to everyone yeah
and and we missed you Paul you're you're way better at moderating a conversation than we are rant because you you
probably have notes and stuff we just are on here talking feel in dead air bro so thanks
everybody for joining us today and uh we'll see you guys next week have a good one
The Huddle - Episode 66 - Color & Design in Flooring
This week the guys are joined by designer Emma Schlittenhardt from Hardt Studio (https://www.hardtstudio.com) who helps discuss the use of color and design in flooring applications while maintaining functionality.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
we come at you every Tuesday at 300 p.m Central to discuss maintaining Ford progress in your flooring career with me
as usual is Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez although Jose is vacant at the moment
and we uh have a special guest with us today Emma and Emma I will not butcher
your last name so I'll let you say that here uh during the introduction but
um so thank you for joining us we are um really proud of what we've
been able to put together here at the Huddle um as many of you know last week we talked about the um the show that we
just got back from and we had a lot of support from there and it was really awesome to find out how many people
actually watch the show so uh I want to thank our audience and everybody who joins and and finds the information
valuable if you do find this information valuable we would appreciate a subscribe
to our YouTube channel or a like maybe a comment on one of the social channels that you're watching us on and without
further Ado today is about design and colors in commercial flooring so many of
us uh help our clients um select materials and from a flooring contractor
standpoint I typically want to make sure that the performance and the uh right
product is in the right area um but I am not a design expert and colors and I'm
I'm really excited to kind of hear your take on that so uh without further Ado
I'd like to introduce Emma Emma could you tell us a little bit about you and your company and what you guys are up to
yeah um thanks again so much for having me on today Paul it's been um it was a
an honor to be asked asked but um I so my name is Emma schlittenhart first of
all and I am an interior designer um I also have my master's degree in
architecture so that is one thing that sort of separates me apart from a couple of the other designers at least here in
town um and I own and operate an interior design studio called heart
studio um h a r DT it's the last five letters of my last name uh the whole
thing was obviously just a little too much so we just stuck the last part of my last name and uh so we we started um
in 2020 admidst the coid pandemic um and I started as just myself and I have
grown it to a team of four now so it's myself and three others um we offer
everything from floor plan drawings we do a lot of 3D renderings uh we do
finish selections we do Furniture selection we do decorating and organization Services as well
and um we work primarily on residential or commercial remodels um I'd say it's
about a 7030 split with residential being the majority of what we do um and
then I'm also in the process right now of opening up a showroom and we're going to be selling hard surfaces so flooring
uh backsplash cabinets counters things like that um it's going in a um
well-known area of our city here in which itah Kansas and it's going to be called bot
showroom and it'll be a place where we my team can go select our materials of
course for clients but then we will have a retail component as well so we'll be open to the public um serving you know
interior designers builders contractors and then just the general public as well that's great that's awesome what what uh
I got a couple questions uh from your intro you have a Masters in architecture
what made you uh decide to do that that's pretty rare with designers yeah um so I've always been math has always
been my favorite subject in school and it was kind of a surprise to even me that I decided to go down a more
creative path um but I kind of found that passion in college and then got my
my bachelor's in interior design and then decided that I wanted to go to my masters and there were actually a couple
of different um components that played into that um the first one being that I'm really competitive and nobody in my
family has a master's degree and my mindset is like why not me right and so
it was only two more years on top of my other schooling and I did it all online and so it was really like a why not um
and then the second reason is I worked for an architect for a while um while I
was doing my undergrad and he was really a big proponent of getting a degree in
architecture of some sort you know he'd been through through the 20 2007 uh
housing market crash he worked for a firm at the time and he's like the first people that got fired were all the
interior designers um so it kind of scared me honestly a little bit but you know interior design is definitely a
luxury service and when the economy goes that's just one of the first things that go and so I wanted um to obviously have
a little bit of job security and then I knew that it would also SE separate myself from the crowd and I would have
um the knowledge to do more than just pick out the pretty stuff yeah yeah well
that's cool what What's um last question here what what got you to want how did
you arrive at the decision to start your design studio and your your showroom I
should say and open it up to the public and and kind of you know try to Ser as
not only general public but also you know contractors and other designers um so with the design studio
being at home during 2020 and having a lot of Spare Time on My Hands is kind of what prompted that decision my husband
is an entrepreneur and I was always jealous of his um schedule I guess he he was working from home even before coid
and I was like I want to do that too you know so uh when I got sent home during Co I was getting all my work done in two
hours then we would go golfing for a couple of hours and then I didn't know what to even do with the rest of my day
you know so I started doing some um freelance stuff if you will for friends and family members and just helping them
out and then my entrepreneurial husband was like we got to make this into a business we gotta we got to make this
something and um I was really excited about it too I mean he definitely didn't force me or anything he's he's been a
great support and a great help in all of that and so we made it legit um at that
point and then um the reason for starting the showroom of course officing
at home was not everything it was cracked up to be I find it um I find it easy but I find it hard to um end work
at the end of the day and so I wanted a place where my team could meet um you know now that I have a team it it would
be helpful to have an office ourselves it would be helpful to have a conference room where we can take our clients and
we can present to them their floor plans their renderings and pull samples um and
then obviously there's a monetary component of it as well right now we're shopping everywhere else and and that's
all dollars that we're giving um to somebody else and so being able to just have another uh income stream was looked
like a good idea for me and hopefully it is um and then you know my goal with
targeting other designers and contractors is just that I feel that I've been doing this long enough that I
know what other designers want and need here in this market um one big example
of that is you know how divided East and West Witchita are right yeah there's
nothing there's no showrooms on the east side of town really I mean we've got a couple but really most of them are um
larger box chain stores and if you want something besides that there's not really a good option um so that was one
of the reasons that I put it where it was and then also I think that there's a need for that from a designer
perspective a nicer smaller showroom that's more boutique style less less is
more um we won't have a ton of stuff we'll have a very limited selection and um we want to do a really
great designer program to incentivize them to bring their clients in um and
and then yeah um just being in the location where we're at is what made us want to be open to the public because
it's a big like it's a strip center basically so there's people walking back and forth um all the time lots of
restaurant in there and and other stuff so well awesome congrats on all that by
the way yeah thank you so guys uh when you you are
selecting helping the client select flooring uh how often are you working
with the a designer um very minimal actually
um yeah let me let me move this sorry I was coughing earlier so that's why I Disappeared came back um so as far as
working with a designer very minimal and and the reason is is that uh most of the clients already have what they want
picked out or they have something in mind and like she said earlier it's um it's a luxury right and a lot of people
are always trying to pinch those pennies so to speak but when you have uh clients
that don't have the time um they just want someone to make a decision because
they can't make it in the house that's when we run into it quite a bit um and the designers we work with work out of
other other uh showrooms or they have their own so it's really pretty easy the
only questions we get is will this perform yeah this happen and not a lot
of them have the degree in architecture like she does so I'm sure that she kind of already has a little bit of an upper
hand on that performance is key I don't know my buddy Zach is an architect and he told me that they don't know
nothing yeah um yeah I know
that fortunately for for for us uh the designers that we do work with we we've
had a relationship for a very long time um [Music] and they don't really have the best
experiences with a lot of uh the trades a lot of the flooring installers uh that's the only one I could really
relate to unless they vent but uh and that led me to a question actually and I
wanted to ask her is like how do you select your cont contractors how do you build your team
what are you looking for um and the reason I asked that is because we've been fortunate to keep getting repeat
business like they don't call anybody they have a an install that a level of
difficulty they already know what they're going to call and I don't those are some of the projects
that I look forward to doing because it's it's not a race to the bottom it's a what is this going to cost yeah um to
answer your question on uh how do I pick my contractors it's been a that's probably been the hardest
part of my job actually is finding the right contractor and getting them to stick around right um either being
willing to work with me or being willing to stick to this area which all um but
we I mean I went through probably one contractor every three months when I first got started and I obviously um
hold my people to very high standards um not only on the the work that they do but on their timelines and on their
fairness with the clients as far as you know if things come up for additional they want you know a change order more
money things like that um so I was pretty much going through a contractor every three months when I first started
and then I was fortunate enough about a year and a half ago to find a general contractor who reached out to me and so
it was a really good setup because I could test him out on his own projects right so he reached out to me he said I
need your help with design on these these bathrooms and I was able to help him out and kind of watch him from afar
as I'm doing that and seeing how he treats his clients and how he how he works you know how his what his level of
expertise is with everything um and I've worked with him ever since and to me
like he's why go find anybody else he's great so yeah we' we've worked with uh
multiple designers and designers reach out to us was to uh you know help them
not only select product once they have a good color scheme going just to make sure that the right products are in the
right area uh from a performance standpoint uh but also to actually
perform the work and you know bid the job and um a lot of times when you're
working with designers we try to Encompass uh you
know really open up the lines of communication to understand their vision
and and U you know provide expertise where we have it uh so let's move on to the meat and
potatoes which is kind of we're curious on design Trends and you know where
where is design going how can you help us to understand when we're showing clients like where is it all going it
seems you know we were so gray black and white for decade or more what happened gray
what's that that's what I was GNA say what happened to gray yeah so you know I
still see it but it seems to be softening or or or um maybe changing to
more of a taupy color I don't know I I just curious of um not only where are
the trends but from your opinion where do the trends start who starts these things where who says you know Gray's
over let's start something else that's a great question um well so first of all the the way that I
kind of collect my knowledge on what's what's trendy and what's not is I try to do a decent amount of traveling and
seeing what's going on in other places um I just recently judged the parade of
homes in um Tulsa which is not that far away but um they actually have a lot of
people coming in from California similar to Texas and so uh a lot of the trends
there kind of mimic what was happening on the coasts and you'll always hear that Trends start on the coast whether
that's interior design or clothing trends or even like graphic design um
you know it always starts at the coast is what people say and then it comes to us slowly but tulso was a really good
representation of what's happening on the coast because they have a lot of Californians there now and so anyway
while we were there judging the pr of homes um I was actually very pleasantly surprised to see not a lot of gray um
like you said Paul it's there still it is more muted it is more beige influence
so it's more of a gray if you will um but there was really there was no gray flooring there were not really any gray
walls um there was a little bit of gray Cabinetry um a little bit of um maybe a
lighter gray wall but nothing nothing dark at all I mean nothing like your
shirt or or darker gray um there was a lot of color being used um in the actual
hard finishes of the homes there was a lot in the Cabinetry and on ceilings in
powder bathrooms uh tile in bathrooms things like that which was really
exciting to see um mostly the colors were like sage greens and um there were
a couple of almost uh mauve colors that I
saw I think it's coming back what color mauve is uh yeah um yeah you need to
Google it it's it's something um so and then I just actually
yesterday did the parade of homes in Witchita so you know I'm comparing these two and I'm thinking to myself is it
going to be similar are we still way off and actually we were we were pretty spoton with what they're doing there so
um in my opinion that's kind of what the trends are now I've seen it enough to know that that's kind of where we're
leaning and then you know my clients when I work with them they're always giving me a big Pinterest board full of
all the stuff that they like right and I'm seeing a lot of the same colors there I'm seeing a lot of sage green um
so that's where it starts is Pinterest I think it starts on Pinterest and you know who's who's making those pins I
don't know it could be could be Europeans it could be um I don't know it
could be aliens for all I know but um and then I think that you know
magazines and TV shows like HGTV and
even you know Instagram celebrities or influencers on Instagram whatever they're sharing
whatever they're doing uh that really helps set the trends a lot too almost sounds like they're just kind
of collecting an algorithm and that's what's being uh put pushed to the Forefront all the basically social media
is controlling everything the what else is like everything else yeah exactly um
when you said said colors is it you mentioned Mau and sage green you know
one of the things that was pretty predominant with the gray was really almost an
Institutional s level feel I mean it got really cold for a while yeah in
design are they trying to just bring more color in in general do you think or
is it um specific colors that are starting to Trend you see what I'm saying is it just
any color is okay we need more color into our in into uh design in general
yeah and um I would definitely say it's specific colors that are starting to Trend like I'm not seeing yellow at all
um and I know I remember growing up my parents had their whole first level of their house painted a light yellow so
like that hasn't come back yet um hope doesn't I I hope not either we're switch
to White from yellow right now oh good okay um I'm a big fan of of white like I
almost tell all my clients to paint their walls white and then you know it gives you a blank slate to start with
and then we can go from there um but anyway I I do think it's specific colors
and I think those colors are based almost on a like a rotating wheel of what was trendy you know people my age
have PTSD of yellow so that's not going to be trendy for a while yet now once my
generation starts to hit like probably their 60s and their 70s and nobody listens to us anymore because we're old
then that color might start to come back because we've all kind of forgotten about how terrible it was um that kind
of seems to be the trend of what colors come in and out in my opinion oh that's
interesting what you just said um about age so can you break age groups into
specific demographics for color trends does that have a lot to do with it I think well I just I want to you know
burgundy and teal were the colors when I was growing up like in the 80s oh man early 90s I Liv
in the hood was burgundy black and gold well still there the point here is it
has neither one of them colors have come back and so what you're saying is a a a
pretty interesting Insight maybe when I'm 70 yeah then
they'll be back and if if so and I'm still shooting this podcast I'm gonna come on and say emo was right I was
right you have to bring me back for a guest a reappearance I love it interesting so um
when you are selecting colors do you like the permanent colors so the wall colors and those kind of things you just
said you kind of like more of a blank slate whether it's white or maybe a um
um a light color in some sort then you start building around that with you know
your flooring and your tile and your things like that what what do you do there what is the um what should we
consider when we're working with someone and they have uh a beautiful building
residential or commercial uh you know their home their office space um we have
white walls or or light colored walls what what do you want to see in the flooring is it like do you want to
contrast greatly or or does it is it more of a product of like what kind of
facility it is as well um yeah I think that all of that goes into it I think that even the um you know in a house at
least the owner's opinion goes into it a little bit too um there's not always necessarily a right or wrong answer
because I mean in my opinion interior design is Art and art is always subjective what I like you're not going
to like and what you like Daniel's not going to like you know um so but there's definitely some some color theories that
will tell you if something does not go together and part of the reason I like to start with white walls is because
well white obviously is bright it feels clean it feels um open it reflects light
so it makes your space feel bigger and then I like to start there because we can kind of go any Direction with our
flooring right we could go black brown we could even go white or gray on the floors or we could do a color I mean
honestly because it's open at that point to to pretty much anything you want um in my opinion the thing that looks the
best is having a higher contrast flooring with the White Walls if you do go white or light on the walls um so
anything like medium brown tones down to Black is kind of the best fit in my
opinion for that gotcha well I love I love the
um when when you have really light walls and really dark floors it doesn't always
work uh we we do a lot of dentist offices and putting lvt in their
operatory areas uh we don't put dark because of all the spit and the
toothpaste and the stuff just shows up everywhere all of a sudden so that's obviously where that's one of the things
that a lot of designers don't think of and maybe they some do but not not all of them and those are just things that
we we experience later on when someone's like is there a better way to clean this
floor I'm constantly cleaning all the White toothpaste off or whatever and you're like well maybe we shouldn't put
dark walnut or black walnut in absolutely yeah spes yeah I mean and it's funny because everyone thinks that
white shows everything right but it's absolutely the other way around with floors at least um dark floors really do
show everything and I also think like to your point that's why it is helpful to
have designers or Architects or even flooring people who specialize in a certain field uh because if you're doing
you know churches or dentist office or vet clinics or day carees all day you're going to have a lot more knowledge on
exactly what products work best functionally and aesthetically for those types of
spaces when you work with uh the your cont contract or a flooring company or
something uh let's use flooring do you enjoy does it bother you at all when
they bring product to you and say this is what you should use and then there's a color selection within that product
line or would you rather we have found I probably need to qualify this
question we have found that sometimes uh designers can be really stuck on their
product even if it may not be the right
application yeah no I always leave it I mean I if you as a flooring expert are
willing to give me Insight on what brand of flooring I should use I am personally
more than happy to hear you out on that because I cannot mentally keep track of
the right brand of everything for every product that I'm selecting because I'm doing floors trim doors Windows paint
you know it goes on and then it goes into furniture too right and there's a whole list of 250 other brands of
furniture that I'm supposed to keep track of as well and so if you as the flooring expert are willing to advise me
on that um I am more than happy to hear hear that out that might be the architect in you yeah maybe the
reasonable part yeah um I think that maybe a lot of the times designers you
know we are used to having contractors or whoever might
be try to tell us the right way to do our job and so that might be kind of where that comes from that you're
experiencing that with designers sometimes but um no I am I'm not that
way at least I like to think so yeah well we've worked I mean we've had both
ways where the designer really appreciated it I was just curious if uh how you felt about that and then um you
know obviously we used to have a Design Center and have tons of designers come in and
use it was similar concept from the size
standpoint um that you have which is like it wasn't you know some massive
30,000 foot showroom of tile and uh but we were really selective of what goes in
there um but working with designers inside the uh Design Center as we called
it was that always tend to tended to uh
Foster a good uh Team atmosphere it's when they have selected something on a
set of drawings and we're like that is not going to work in a shower room it's LBT and it's glued down that's gonna be
a problem yeah and they're like well just use it you know
anyway on to the next question before I stick my foot in my
mouth the uh uh next question and and
this kind of tends to go a little bit more on the business side how do you how do you bridge the gap between desire and
budget when you're dealing with the client and they got a you know that that old saying a you know what what is a
champagne taste with a beer budget beer budget yeah I hear that all the time um
I've never had anybody tell me they don't have a budget um I've had people who won't give me a number and then it's
not until I've picked stuff out that they say that that's not in their budget and then you know that's obviously always frustrating because you're like
well what is your budget you know that would have been good to know uh but yeah it's definitely a challenge my biggest
thing is I won't even look at stuff if I don't if it's not in their budget so as soon as they give me a number if I know
that you know we have $5 a square foot to spend on flooring I will because I usually start my search online at least
um that's how I do it now when it when I have a showroom that'll probably change but um I will filter it by my price and
I don't even look at anything that's not in my price point um and so that kind of helps me to stay within their budget um
as far as quality goes you know if there isn't item that I think is going to be
better for them and it's not in their budget I'll usually bring that to the clients and kind of let it be their call
you know hey this is a dollar a square foot more it's going to be a $22,000 um you know addition but I
really think it's worth it because it's going to last you another 15 years it's not going to scratch as much and it's
going to be better for your pets H something like that so so a lot of times when designers um one of the challenges
is when homeowners find something on Pinterest and say this is what I and they fall in love with it I I've
literally had it happen where they absolutely fall in love with it and they're like well where else can we cut
to get this budget yeah no I've got yeah I've got some clients that are um kind of doing that
right now I mean they're they bought a 100-year-old house in right right on the river and they want to add on a full
glass wall on the back of the house so that they can see their View and that's like the Mantra of their project they
need to do that now they also need to gut and remodel the rest of the house because it's hundred years old but you know that's like the glass is going to
happen one way or another even if the rest of the house has to have um 50 Cent carpet throughout you know
but that's kind of what the whole the the most important part of the project is and so I think that being able to
figure that out too with your clients is really key um being able to find out what where their priorities lie and I
always say that usually the the spaces that you're going to spend the most time in your kitchen your living room uh
maybe the primary bedroom those are probably going to be your main spaces and then let's start there and then we
can cut in other spots if we need to
awesome guys what's your thoughts on budget what you what have you had to
kind of mental gymnastics have you guys had to do to I think it's less Gap I
think it's less the material for us than it is the overall package because people have a I don't know where they get the
dollar amount in their mind but it's like Oh I thought this was just going to be like $5 a square foot it's like
material is $5 a square foot these days then you want us to remove and
install everything do you guys ever run across
um as you're working through a project and and and interior designer or not do
you ever run across where your client gets really honed in
on a certain product and you have to figure out other products for other areas to reduce cost to make that
product fit in we we do our very best to conform to
their changes that they're trying to have right but if uh I'll be honest if if it's if we're not working through a
designer and I'm talking to a client I'm I'm very direct I try to it's like hey look
I understand you really want to make that change but but I'm letting you know like if if I know it's going to fail and it's not going to perform then I I'm
really have no interest in doing it uh to be honest with you and I mean that that's the short version
of it right usually we go down a conversation and I I drop it very lightly and I say well these are the
potential downfalls um as far as working with a designer or through a designer um
we do have the luxury of being at the Forefront of some of that and and giving
her our or them our our worries on some of the products
um and then and then they usually narrow it down but that's an individual designer but if we're working with a design firm that's a lot harder to do
especially that's more of the commercial world than it is the residential World um they don't like to hear that their
selections are wrong yeah at all um but well maybe that's part of the key is the
um independent designer that's that's a good insight as well is yeah uh we you
know when I get outside my comfort zone I I reach out to the designers that I know and try to get somebody on board
because I may be an expert in the flooring product itself but how it ties in with all the other elements in a
building I'm I'm not I'm not a designer uh so that's where people like Emma come
in to save the day a lot of times um I guess
uh from when we're talking about you know color and design you have an
architect background or degree uh how much has that influence the way that you
approach these things yeah Masters and man so uh what what kind of things uh in
your architectural um uh from that degree does that
influence Your Design because you do floor plans and things like that as well you said so obviously that's going to be
derived from the architectural side of you uh it's really intriguing to me that
you have both Sid so I'm curious when you when you start selecting your your
products that you're going to utilize does that I mean it seems like it would influence the way that you do your
selections not just for color you may be an outlier I guess is what I'm saying where you you consider how it's going to
be used as opposed to just what looks pretty yeah um so in architecture school they I think
there was one class maybe on finishes so there's not a whole lot of focus on it but the one class that there is on
finishes is all about um functionality it's not really got anything to do with color and so it definitely helped me um
a little bit to kind of just take those other items into consideration um they're really good about teaching you
that in interior design school as well that you know we're not just looking at color we have to make sure that the product is going to hold up and that
it's going to function the way that the client needs it to um I would say the biggest thing that the architecture
degree did for me is it opened up my knowledge into commercial design a lot
more um really when you do interior design school the focus is on homes and then switching over to architecture
school it's Swit it's on Commercial design right and so um I don't know if
it changed a whole lot about how I think about the functionality of products but it definitely added a lot to my
knowledge uh for codes and Ada and all of that and that all goes into selecting
product as well I mean not a lot of people know that there's a a coefficient of friction that you need to maintain on
your tile if it's going into an ADA Bathroom um or just a commercial bathroom in general so um it definitely
did add to my knowledge base and I'm I'm very helpful for that because it makes me sound really smart if I'm able to
spit ball stuff out remember one time I was working with a guy and he we were
doing a therapy clinic and you know he texted me two pictures of door knobs and he's like which door knob should I pick
and one of them was one of the traditional round where you twist it and one of them was more of the lever kind
of doorknob and I just respond you know he wanted my opinion on looks and I responded and I said you have to do the
um lever knob because you have to be to code and part of ADA code is that
somebody without a hand has to be able to open that door so you have to be able to open it with your elbow if you don't
have hands and he was just like whoa that's I would have never thought about
that I'm like yeah well never thought about that and we work in hospitals all the time yep so well everybody just
learned something now you'll start paying attention I bet you'll see it a lot more so there you go so so you're
saying that that your your background with your degree helps a little bit with the Engineering Process as well so that
you kind of have an idea of this might be feasible or this is way out of line
or with the budget you submitted to me I can tell you that we're open up this can of worms yeah exactly yep it does well
and it helps that you uh are creative but it's almost like you're
creative second yeah like you're you're you're analytical and math driven first
and so that probably helps a lot because I I uh I love all my designers so this
isn't you know but even though they're taught just like you
said in design school that functionality is important um I I have found that um you know a
fair number can get really hung up on a certain color like that color if I
cannot get it switched over to a different brand and it keep all the
same design look color like they don't want to look at at it and it's they get
really stuck on that piece of it um I'm working on a project right now where you
know it's it's over budget and so we're getting creative with some of the product selections and trying to uh
cross over an lvt that is pretty unique to that brand
in style and so I can't find the something that's like almost the exact
same and it is it is a struggle we are struggling to to get that someone has to
move like the budget's not going to move it's been cleared they're not going
to spend any more money and I've got to switch this out to be able to have any
uh hope of hitting the budget so in that realm it's like please like come my
direction a little bit you got to give a little bit yeah yeah so that's why that question came up earlier actually the
the the gap between the budget and the uh you know the design and and how you
like work through that because we we definitely have those scenarios come up
fairly often a few several times a year at least where you know we're stuck
almost between a rock and a hard place so yeah we were on a project a few years ago where this um she was actually at
maybe she wasn't a designer I forget what she did but uh
she was selecting the colors it sounds like she really really wanted a bamboo floor and it wasn't in the budget so
they went with an engineered like pind looking floor so it had it was real
naughty and had a lot of dark planks oh no she was a designer that's right I know what you're talking about after we
got everything done it was always don't like this over here don't like this
board don't like this board and it's like she was a designer actually she's a
designer for a very large firm um she does a lot of uh spec designs for
companies and she selected a material that the variation in the in the boards
was all over the place right it was different sizes like it was a it was a wood floor
and instead of saying what she didn't like at the beginning she waited till everything was installed insted yeah
that's crazy well this kind of leads me to um kind of my final question for you
Emma which is you know it was a uh touched on a little bit earlier but what
are the keys to success in your mind when dealing in these scenarios where
you're dealing with other people you're dealing with a team you talked about finding a good contractor but a lot of
times uh you're kind of in a luxury position uh in the low bid world of
commercial building where uh you never know who the GC uh is going to be until
the bid is over and and you get told that oh guess what XYZ gc's the the the
Builder uh and they have their team that they've assembled of low biders
and so but working in those scenarios when you're working with teams and just what
the guys just brought up with um Jose was just talking about where he's trying to uh you know be proactive or he wishes
that would have been proactive we all have our frustrations with you know working within a team but what are some
of the keys to success that that you found in your relationship with uh say
this uh current Builder you're working with what what makes it work so well not just this quality there's got to be some
other things yeah um I mean I know that this one's a cliche but honestly communication is 95% of this job and I'm
sure you guys know that but even if something does go wrong because no not even if when something goes wrong
because it always does there you go um if you can communicate it upfront and
effectively and be professional about it and catch it in time and you can
communicate that to your client you'll actually find that most of the time they're not that upset about it I mean people aren't usually upset about
something going wrong they're upset that they were not told or that they were not asked um so for example I was on a
project and the contractors decided they were going to move a wall nobody told me nobody told the client they just moved
it and you know their excuse was oh well we needed to move it because the plumbing something about the plumbing
line and I was said okay well that you should have at least run it by the client like even if you don't want to
run it by me of course I would have liked to have had it run by me but you need to at least tell the homeowner
again they wouldn't have been upset about it because they had to do it um just being able to communicate that um
and then you know I think communication of timeline and budget is also huge uh putting forward the right expectations
making sure your clients know what to expect again they're not going to be upset if you tell them it's going to
take me six months but you got to tell them up front and that way they they have that expectation in mind um so I
think that that's really the reason that uh my contractor who I use uh works so well with me um is because we're we're
pretty good about communicating with one another I probably talk to him 15 times a day
um we on the phone probably every 30 minutes just different project or I'm
asking him a question about something um and again that's just to eliminate as much error as we can uh well that goes
even past like communication I just want to point out that that's embracing
almost communic like really embracing communication
yeah what you said earlier about the wall being moved I would imagine that
part of the um frustration can come that they had no say in it like maybe they would have
wanted the wall moved a little further right or you know what I mean like if the wall had to move yeah me as the
homeowner maybe I want to make sure the wall moves where I want it if it has to
yeah so giving options and communicating exactly sound like those
go hand inand yeah and then just the respect of you know knowing that you're not it's not your house or not your
building it is somebody else's money it's somebody else's project it's somebody else's um a lot of the time
when we're doing homes it's somebody's dream that they've been saving for for 10 15 years and preach please preach
yeah I no and I think it's I think it's disrespectful to just decide oh I'm G to move a wall because I do this every day
and I know what's best well that's fine but you know it's not your house so it's not your choice and I think that's what
it comes down to is just having respect ultimately for your clients and then for me for my general contractor and my
general contractor should do the same for me so something like that can change the entire look of a space um yeah know
like if if everything was structured around that wall because it was breaking up a sight line I get it yeah um and you
know that was probably something that should have been caught on the on the initial uh walkth through or when we
were drawing the floor plans um but it wasn't and it did it it ended up affecting the bathroom they ended up
losing some storage in the bathro that they would have liked to have had obviously it's not the end of the world
um and thankfully they were very reasonable clients and they were aware that it wasn't the end of the world but
in some cases that could have been a a bigger mess than it was yeah well we've
had a lot of communicate or a lot of podcasts um that end up with that word
coming up like it's almost Universal we'll be talking about something or have
a whole uh topic on something and then it comes back to communication is key and uh so I
can't you know bring that up again for our audiences that when you're dealing with clients and you're dealing with
your general contractor as a installer or you're dealing with a store you're dealing with you know Architects or
designers communication both good or bad timely communication yeah um is kind of
the key uh it's a struggle I mean we we have to work with our team uh you know
our our leadership uh has to work with our team all the time to really make sure that communication is uh fostered
as a positive it it seems like um you
know if you don't embrace it the way you guys have with you know your your uh GC
that you're working with or like I know that Daniel and Jose are huge on communication um you know that's what we
preach are to our project managers and our estimators is like if we're not going to b a job that we've been invited
to we need to let the client know we're not bidding this job like as soon as possible or on the project management
side if something goes wrong and material gets delayed it's better to call and say hey this material got
delayed as soon as possible um again that's giving some options to the
designer and to the uh end user to maybe switch product uh
if you wait until it's on a boat coming from Korea and you cannot return it then they're
stuck with that but they're worse off they're stuck with that timeline that right may not work for them so that
communication I'm glad you brought that up uh that that is U Paramount in most
things so I think too like um you know you present a problem when it comes up
and I kind of decide if that is worth sharing with my client usually I'll kind
of Judge if it's something that they need to be told about but if I do bring
up a problem to them I'm always pairing it with a solution so I had chairs that were delayed for a client they needed
them in their house because they were going to have house guests and they were going to have dinners and they needed their dining chairs and so I was texting
her on a Saturday and she asked where they were and I said they're still not here I know your house guests are I on
Tuesday I am so sorry about this I will go to uh I don't remember where I
suggested going I will go get you some chairs and they will be in your house by Tuesday you they will go with your house
they will go with the design style that we that we have going your client or your guests can use them while they're
at your house and then I will pick them up and I will return them afterwards and she responded she was like wow that's an
amazing answer or something and you know just being being able to present that
solution as well is is really important it's crazy how they go from super angry about something wow thank you yeah I
think I her off guard because I think she was just expecting me to say you know they're not here sorry deal with it
and I know that in flooring that's that's a lot different you can't put a flooring in and then well I bring up I
was gonna ask these guys how often have you put in temporary uh carpet or something so that the facility could get
open but then have to go back and and replace it when the materials finally get in it's not even opening sometimes
it's hey we have inspections we need this down right now yeah and like well I
got something at the warehouse let's just throw something in real quick I had to do aary carpet in a movie theater in
Iowa so dve driving down there to install it temporary to come back home and wait for a phone call wow yeah we
even installed um in fact we have several pallets of product and and
different um of different various products just for that like okay put
this cheap carpet in for a couple of weeks until their actual carpet comes in
uh keep it in the neutral easy that's another reason good for us to understand
kind of design and colors coming down the pipe is we try to keep a little bit of product that we can throw in pull up
rep palletize for the next time uh and use it in temporary manners uh we we
have to do that fairly often honestly and crazy tile or with a walk-off carpet
uh specifically if it's like a walk-off system like a petat or something like
that I cannot tell you how many times these are all custom built for the
vestibule uh that we've put in walk-off carpet in a temporary manner until the
the the mat comes in and it could be three four or five months sometimes before they get to fabricating it making
it and sending it to you wow unfortunately we had a car dealership we just uh just got it in but it took
almost four months for that uh product to get made and we had to put temporary carpet in
um and we had to be cognizant of the facility so yeah we we have to do that
sometimes too wow crazy I had no idea okay good to know all right well we're
nearing the end here guys you got anybody uh commenting has something here he says that
um when he's working for a contractor and he's installing an expensive carpet
and the designer wants him to do it so this is the designer working for the contractor but he charges a lot more
than he already got quoted then you know they always have to
call him back to do repairs but I think that's different though right because if who's in charge of the project the
contractor or the designer because when we're working with designers it's always the designer that's in charge of it
and it's always what do you charge it's never the contractor saying that's too much yeah like yeah how do you handle
that as a designer um so with my contractor who I'm working with right now uh the
understanding is sort of whoever's client it was first that's who kind of heads up the project if that makes sense
so if it was my marketing efforts that got me the client then it's kind of my project and vice versa um so if you
bring him in or brought you in exactly yeah whoever whoever brought the other one in that's kind of who is in charge
of the project now there's there's phases and we have our systems worked out where I'm ordering you know
materials X Y and Z and he's ordering BC and D um so obviously if he orders in a
product and it comes in wrong or it's the wrong color it's the wrong budget whatever that might be um that's h on
him uh but yeah uh that's definitely a tricky tricky one yeah
I should have named this uh or the title of this podcast um working with a design team
and Architects because I think that's what it's turned into but it's it's great information because so many of us
have to you know have these relationships and work through uh issues
um so having your insights been been awesome yeah thank you got you guys got
any uh final questions before we close her down easy one so if I wanted to
stock some material on my shelf and be ready for a designer what is a good trending material to have ready for
residential let's just say residential because commercial is its own Beast for what is a what is a good material to
have ready uh ready to rock and ins is this like a hard surface or soft surface
let's just call it in general I'm not doing a lot of carpet
right now at all so if that answers that question question a little bit um I mean I've other than staircases I really
don't do much carpet at all um I would say vinyl flooring is kind of the new
thing um I see a lot of people getting away from um or uh laminate I'm sorry
they're getting a little bit further away from lvp um and I see a lot more laminate
flooring going in now um and so I would say just like a medium colored laminate
floor you know the wood laminate floor something uh in the taupey Grays
ory Brown say brown yeah I would not do it I would not go gray um I just think
it's not I don't think it's G to be around much longer I think it's already on its way out and I don't think that we're going to see that Resurgence for
probably 80 years so hopefully I would say for all
those people out there that have a gray house the good thing is gray is not not burgundy or teal or one of and what I
always say about color is if you like it then that is the what should be in your house I don't it doesn't matter if it's
a trend it doesn't matter if I like it if you like it then uh great you know
it's your house well that's uh they're the ones who pay the bill so I think that's a
good approach shout out to Jorge and Kevin for actually commenting today oh thanks
Kevin thanks Jorge thanks guys there's a couple of our uh really really high-end
uh installer guys that join our podcast every week they're great dudes we got to
hang out with them again a couple weeks ago so shout out to Jorge and and uh
appreciate your comments well I I want to thank you Emma for coming on today and and just kind of wrapping with us
about design and and your approach to business um again congratulations on
your new digs coming up and uh all the success that you're having keep up the good work and
hopefully we get to work together in the future and uh yeah so with that guys you
got anything left no that's it thank you for letting us know right away that you're smarter than us with your
master's degree we appreciate appreciate that Paul Paul said brag on myself so
that's right that's great and when I when I go to you know when I'm looking at projects they always ask me does this
look good over here does this look good over here and my answer is always I'm not a designer because I don't want to
have my hand in that and then they don't like it then it's my fault that's right yeah that's right shoot me a text next
time that happens I'll help them video there you go there go I'll shoot you a text and then the invoice is in the mail
the next day probably that's that's right that's you just yeah yeah all right well
thanks again for joining us it's been a pleasure getting to know you a little bit more and uh understanding your
approach here um particularly the way you approach business honestly I I it's
impressive and I'm I'm glad that you're having some success with finding a good team to work with you and growing your
team so thank you gentlemen as always I appreciate you and the Staples of the
Huddle and with that I am going to close it up so thank you everybody for joining
us and again a quick reminder hit that like And subscribe give us a comment and
uh let us know what you'd like for us talk about guests you'd like for us to bring on and I'm sure we'll have Emma on
again in the future so with that we'll see you guys next week see you have a good one all right thank
[Music] you
The Huddle - Episode 65 - CFI FCICA 2023 Recap
This week as the guys are winding down from a beautiful week in Orlando, they recap their experience at the CFI FCICA 2023 Convention and Tradeshow, from what they learned and what they liked to what they think can be improved
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
Huddle we come at you every single Tuesday at 3 P.M Central to discuss
maintaining Ford progress in your flooring career with me as always is Mr Daniel and Jose
Gonzalez if you prefer flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan
what's up fellas how's it going brother have the trip uh back from uh from the show in Orlando
everything goes smooth everything is good yeah so Daniel Landing had to come
get his tonsils out so I sound really weird today well you sound you're at least I can
understand what you're saying so it sounds like we'll have an awesome podcast and Daniel may be sparing in his
comments uh so today we had planned on
having a show with um designers kind of encompassing Flooring
Design and and color selections and things like that due to some scheduling issues uh we do not have our designers
for that show so we're going to pump that to next week and this week uh we really wanted to talk about the show we
just all got back from anyway and share some insights with you guys on what we
experienced at this you know Daniel uh Jose and myself were always
kind of promoting getting to these shows and this one was fantastic it was the
the first joint fcicfi convention and we've I mean
preferred guys have been to both cfi's convention and fcica's I have as well
and so we thought we'd discussed some of the great things that came out of this uh show as well as some insights we
might have so starting off
what was your guys's uh overall impression of the show was it a positive
joint venture between the two entities um yes yes it was actually
um looking back at the CFI alone and fcica alone it was right and you know my
perspective is because I'm an installer but I also like the business side of things and it was
it was awesome to have both worlds mingle and in the on the same platform
in the same room uh in the same conversations that was uh
it was just not my nerd I was just super sweet to be able to ask you know questions uh from the installers and
then follow up with a conversation in the same conversation all over to the business side um in that aspect and um a good balance
of residential and Commercial Minds uh together as well and I have
that was my favorite one by far um you know yeah not that they did a bad job on their own I mean those shows
we've always heck when we got when you guys and I talk after those shows were
like that was a good show but there was something special about having both sides of the coin at one show you know
you had fcica that really their member group is flooring contractors and then
you had CFI which were really their group of members are flooring installers
and all certified guys so it was nice to have that whole Community together in
one um you know I do think there was some some hay to be
made or some some opportunities for those two groups to come together even better like maybe
um some some some more integration between the two but it was the first year so you know maybe some of that will
come down the pipe but uh we got we we maybe
you know in our previous discussions maybe there's a little bit of segregation between the two entities you
know if you're a CFI you may be hanging out with CFI all the time and I think the beauty of a of a conference like
this is the the opportunity to go out and meet you know other people from the
other side and kind of understand uh maybe why the flooring companies do things the way they do from the
installer standpoint vice versa like the fcic understanding the struggle of the
installer so the flooring contractors that were there you know as uh with fcica
understanding like the the profession of it and the listen
to the installers on some of their their pain points and what they're struggling
with and I just think there was some hate to be made there what do you guys think yeah well 100 and hey just so
everybody knows Daniel just had his uh tonsils out yesterday so
probably going to be a little bit on the quieter side today so if you see them going like this it's
because he's crying about nothing if he starts doing sign language you know why
um no I I think you're you're I think you're spot on with that like
I don't want to say like missed opportunities right but it was the first one and to be able to integrate and mix
everyone properly is going to be kind of hard to do on your first shot I would
say but uh maybe intentional on workshops that that incorporate both uh
maybe um I think we had a conversation or you and Daniel were conversating about like uh
the panels right like uh uh more of those a good mix um
a a better I don't say better because it was still pretty good but
maybe shooting out an email to everyone and giving people who are attending an opportunity to say hey I'd like to join
the panel if there's space for me um or hey uh this is a great topic for discussion uh this is where my struggles
are and you know and a lot of you'll be surprised a lot of people have some of the same struggles at the same time
um because it's just you know I feel like construction is seasonal right so we're all going through some of the same
struggles um the well and and for the first show like I
don't want to paint the picture like oh you didn't do it do it right that's not
the case you did wonderful it was an awesome show but we're just talking about ways that we feel like whether it's you
know uh dead time that could have during the golf tournament that could have been
utilized for the attendees to do a co-mingle and and share you know I think
one of you guys mentioned uh almost like speed dating at lunch or dinner or one
of them or something just to get to the two groups to co uh mingle a little bit
more but I also don't want to paint the picture like I know better than what they did I'm just saying from a true
attendees perspective it looked like it went well I had a great time it was my
favorite show but there was some clear kind of separation between the groups that I
think we there's just like you guys said there's some opportunities there Robin said that his grandson showed me how to
dance in 100 he did if you look at his Facebook there's a video on there of me dancing with his grandsons that's
awesome yeah and that's something too that happens there too and that's where the mingling comes into play right like
you get to to learn who people are on a personal level not just a professional or a work level right like it's it's
you get to find out who people are outside of the professional facade outside of the installation mindset and
um it might make it easier for a lot of people too if there were an intentional
um circumstances or or events or or games to play together where you I don't want
to say Force together right because you still got to participate but to where
some of the the introverts uh who might stay in their Corner um can get set at a table with someone
else uh who they don't normally bump elbows with and not saying that I didn't do that because I I'm everywhere all the
time right like I don't have a problem mingling I I it doesn't bother me to mingle but you know they're for those
who do and it's opposite for me right because I'm not really one to put myself out there and just start going to talk
to people but um over the past couple years we we constantly talk about you know pushing
forward right forward for Progress forward progress and it's
like if you're not going to put yourself into some of these uncomfortable positions then you're not going to grow as a person so I you know last year at
CFI convention um I seen a gentleman sitting there by himself it was uh Jose right yeah I seen
him he was sitting there by himself and it was his first time there so that's when we brought cookies so I grabbed the cookie and just went
and sat next to him and started talking to him and then you know him and Crystal came and joined us and I mean he he
probably text me you know once or twice a month just to see how I'm doing so it's how relationships are fostered and
I think it's really important to to put yourself out there like that even if you're not very comfortable with it
because me being uncomfortable with it had no comparison on how uncomfortable he was
not knowing a single person there yeah yeah that's a good point I mean we can
talk about the show being set up to facilitate some of that but in a lot of
ways it was I mean the dinner and the the music and things but getting
together like installers or companies
have to kind of step out of your comfort zone to go meet the other side and and
it can't just be everybody else setting it up it does have to even if it was set
up even if it is set up absolutely perfect for example there's going to be you have
to take some steps to go kind of put yourself out there like you said like even after dinners me him and
Crystal would sit at different tables just just to not be all in the same group because I mean we see each other
all the time I don't want to talk to this dude yeah and that was that's intentional
right so when I walk in and they're there first I walk in to see where they're at and then I go the opposite
way I that I mean it's strategic but
got to be uncomfortable oh you get a lot out of it I think I mean didn't you get like
I I that divide and conquer kind of deal you never know who you're gonna meet and
end up being friends with and texting long term and and or what connection it
doesn't always have to be about business either I like the fact that there were several people now I'm a company and an
installer so I Bridge both sides and that's what's easy for us we know the CFI guys and we know fcica guys so just
to be clear that's why we feel like we have a somewhat of a unique perspective that we have a ability to kind of make
some of these comments we we realize that some fcica people have never been
to and many have never been to a CFI convention and vice versa and so there
are opportunities to connect with other the other side um you know at a at a convention or
something like that may not be as as prevalent and that's why you know us saying this could be you know maybe
think about doing something like this I think we provide a pretty unique perspective because I've been going to
CFI for many years so of you guys and the same with fcica for many years so we
we know the flavor of both sides apart and how they came together was pretty magical and I I thoroughly enjoyed it
but I think it'd be uh you know it's also fun to think about like what more
could have been done and how how can it be better next time and even because no matter how good it is
things can always improve I guess that's my point it was an awesome show but it can forward progress and everything Ford
progress baby yeah and this is our huddle where we discuss that so exactly
right I think the the cool thing uh and you know uh like for little plug for Pat
Kelly but it was synergistic the way everything came together and the
the people the the keynote speakers that came in this time like I don't know if
one side or the other would have access to them or if they would have interest but man that was
there was some great information and great and great stories there and I and
like I absolutely loved it um they're opening a keynote speaker for for the event really set the tempo I
don't know if CFI convention ever had a keynote speaker like that before Dave Garden Dave Gardens everything no
speaker well I don't remember a keynote outside of
you know Robert uh Barton back when he was kind of doing it
um or Dave um was fcica brought to the table was I
mean how often do you get to talk to a guy that runs bonnets you know that's
the CEO of bonnets right and that's a very large commercial floor covering contractor and it gave installers who
may be thinking maybe it's a residential installer thinking about getting into commercial can get in there and see and
listen now his wasn't just about you know obviously flooring his was really
about how you set your day up for Success uh but and how you live your life successful
those are man I learned a lot and I go to stuff like that all the time so
I know that you know the installers in the room I took uh an effort to look
around and there was a lot of those guys in there too which was really pretty cool for them to you know maybe
experience something that they wouldn't normally have experience at the at a regular CFI convention
yeah around and said that they used to have the keynote speakers all the time but it the cost got too much so they cut
back and I'm really glad that they they brought it back this year it was some like
it was some really really good information well that was that was the magic of them stories
yeah well that was the magic of them coming together I think the cost it was more cost effective for both sides and
um uh you know combining those resources where fcica they typically would have
some type of a keynote speaker uh and this this was no different so they
were able to bring that flavor to it I also really liked how
you know CFI got to show like their their
strength in numbers or their Community when you know fcica was like we need a chant
too yeah CFI CFI and then fcica just doesn't roll
off quite as quite as well but uh I thought that was pretty funny um
and I enjoyed the fact that they their leadership did seem to talk a bit and
and and you could see them co-mingling uh it would be awesome for those uh
people who are really trying to change the industry continue to
reach to the other side because that installation problem that we all talk about all the time is not going to be
solved by either side it's going to be solved by both sides coming together and using great technology right it's a
collective and that's what we need to realize like we talked about segregation between the two entities but if you look
at our order like the industry as a whole were segregated into not only like
retailers contractors installers manufacturers you can even break it down
even more to carpet wood you know resilient and it's like hard
time everything is so far far separated it's how can we come together as a
collective in order to then you have office warehouse I mean yeah well and and a bit of that's
going to be natural but there are like plenty of ways to kind of come together
from both sides um and I'm sure they got out and talked to
a lot of the installers I did talk to a lot of the CFI guys and
um they enjoyed the show and you know you can't
when CFI is such a tight-knit group of people
not to say that it's small I'm just saying because not but the fact is is that they really love CFI so to embrace
fcica like that was you know that was my only question was
are are people going to be receptive to this co-venture and it seemed like you
know everybody I talked to was like yeah this is awesome man I've really enjoyed it yeah I mean
if you look for something about you're one or something going to find it but if you look for something uh that you could
benefit from man there was way more things to benefit from there than there was to complain about oh yeah by far
it's just the downtime that like you said for
during the golf outing like I've golfed every year I've been there this is the first year I didn't and Dwayne was happy
about that by the way um I mean Dwight they call them Dwight
but uh you know there wasn't anything going on so I took the time to to try not to fall
too far behind on work uh but if there was something going on I definitely would have fell further behind but uh
that's just one of those sacrifices you have to make when you're going out there and and increasing your Social Network
and and trying to do something that benefits the industry not just you but
the industry um and that's always our goal anyway uh trying to make those connections and and
as a matter of fact I think I connected more people to others than I made
connections myself but I still walked away with a couple new new friends okay okay says thanks for sitting with
us Daniel the crazy thing is is like someone was telling me you know they came up to me
and they were like we love your family and you know you guys are the future and all this stuff
right it's like the crazy thing is for me right it's Jorge oh yeah they call me
Julio long story don't get into it but I said the thing that I'm excited for is
like jorhan Jose and Jesus to to get really involved because we're
we got that whole like the Latin side of the industry that's
untouched right now just because of the language barrier and in order to you know grow even more we need to get them
even more involved because I wish I could speak Spanish and they said you look like you can I said yeah that's the
problem well my wife would probably shoot me for
saying this on on air but she's uh Hispanic as well and and uh can't speak
much Spanish uh in fact I have a larger vocabulary than she does but uh right I
have a larger one than we do I always tell her just tell them you're Indian honey
the the I guess really the purpose of talking about this is a we do it all the time
please invest in yourself and get to one of the shows this one if if I believe from what
I understand they're going to do it again next year it's a great opportunity to get up uh get out of your seat get
out of your comfort zone a little bit get out to uh a show which is it's set
up in a way where you can kind of Disconnect from your day to day for a minute and get to really network with
other people and I know that one thing that I benefited greatly from was
talking to other companies and other installers about their approach to
projects like I found I I've heard I heard everything from the installer like
actually going to job meetings and stuff like that as a sub and I was like
that's wild and he loved doing it I won't say that's right or wrong it's not my my position to say I'm just saying
it wouldn't happen around here and you know so in other areas things just work
differently um you know knowing that some there's so many companies that
are dealing with the labor side of things that when when
trying to connect with the labor side of your business or you know that
opportunity what I found a lot of the ones that were good at it or doing well or seem to have a good thing going was
they really connected on a personal level to their installers they they like knew them not just their name and what
they installed but like knew their life and you know about their family and I
had a couple conversations with some company guys who were like yeah we knew we
give you know birthday gifts to you know subcontractors when we know it's their birthday and just stuff like that things
you would do for your in-house crew they're doing for their their crew
overall and I think that shows that appreciation to them and so the more that that can happen you know even I
don't do that we do one subcontractor thing a year where it's like thanks for working so hard but it showed
me it's just not enough we got to do more right I think um like with this joint thing it was my first time being
able to sit with the next gen group with the fcica and it was like real personal because it
was just a few tables in there because it wasn't really like announced or anything but
I mean you go in there and with our unique perspective like you
said we're contractors and installers and then you talk to some of the contractors and they're like how do you
guys like we talked about pricing because you know I'm pretty transparent with everything and he's like I can't believe you guys would get that and I
said yeah but I can't believe you're not getting that because you know after that conversation he's like I'd like to have
my employees as W-2s and have them uh have retirement and all this stuff
and it's like that's that's the thing that we need to talk about it's you talking about pricing and you the things
you want to do at some point you know you got to raise those prices in order to set yourself up that way
but but when I was on stage you know but that's that's what I said it seems like
there's too many people out there that try and keep the installer hungry just to keep them working because they
want to keep essentially hold them hostage you're going to work for me I'm going to keep you as hungry as I can in
order for you to keep doing that but still have you make some money
but that that's not the thing right we gotta as an industry we just have to be better
and know that we're in business for profit and then in order to take care of your
employees you have to charge what you need to charge you can't just accept any rate that's out there
and I mean he was like I would love to do this and I said that that's how you got
to do it man you just have to start doing it but the more the more we can train
people and get people on the Level Playing Field the more those bids will kind of even themselves out and we won't
it won't be you know I just lost this bid by thirty thousand dollars yeah I
think that you're probably more hitting than nail on the head than
you even can imagine the the fact is is it's it boils all the way down to valuing what that installer does for
your company I don't know where that got lost I talked to some Old-Timers you know that talk about
I mean talk about how much respect they got from the companies that of course they
were more W-2 back then but then also when they walk on a job site that the
amount of respect they would get from the general contractor and I I came into the industry when uh that wasn't the
case in you know 95 even I'm talking real Old-Timers so I'm I'm kind of an
old-timer but not not to the Glory Days when we were respected as a trade I
think you know who was it that did the uh heat welding
uh class dick Schmidt dictionary yeah genius if you want to be politically
correct penis Schmidt it's I I
that's my brother yeah I have a a question if that came from him or you but that came from
but you know he his um his his comment about
uh sheet vinyl being the most hand skill required portion of fluorine and that
flooring overall is the most hand skilled in trades was like
right at my heart and no no no no no no not trying to really uh like poop on the
old electricians or anything trying to downplay anyone yeah but you know you don't need a ton
of hand skill for to for as an electrician
and again not on the electricians here I'm just saying when you start to look at the hand
skills required to put down sheet vinyl and and and do that installation it does
require and it was just like you see the love and of course he's an installer so he's going to have that love for us but
the the truth is is we deserve a lot of a lot more respect on a job site than
what today's General Contractors um kind of have for us and
um you know that one of the things that stuck with me from talking to you know a
guy that's been installing for years and years and years and Market the ntca I'll talk about it too
um going in and like it's ready like you're the thousand pound gorilla and it's
because the GC understands that everybody walks on your floor like you can section off
areas easier for you know painting or whatever it just takes up a wall not the
entire floor and for us to do our jobs the most efficient in the way that it best benefits the job as well as all
parties involved so the flooring contractor flooring installers profitability all the way up to the GC
schedule is having the area open and and ready to rock and roll for us
um I think part of that this uh that part of the Fall was when
and again I not to say anything bad about Subs because I was a sub as well and go
Carrera is all about Subs so this is not negative but when sub Contracting really
started coming to its own in the late 80s and then really catching wind in the late
90s where the the those guys now are their own
company and they're showing up on job sites at 10 o'clock and things like that and it was really prevalent when it
first started happening um that's where we got our bad name that's how we're getting a bad name as
installers is if we don't say what we're gonna do and be there when we say we're going to be there and showing up at the
same time or at a a regular construction schedule time not you know they're often it's it's
better for us if we're coming in the afternoon and working if you set that up with your GC great but if it's a seven
to three Thirty project or seven to four project man flooring guys showing up at 10 30 or 11
just it it's going to give us a bad name as an industry that is that's one thing that that when when I started everyone
had this uh uh idea or perception that the flooring Gap is going to show up at
10 o'clock between 10 and noon and leave at three right like and and we didn't want to fall into that category and to
go back to what you're saying about what happened to the industry I think you're right the the the the rise of the of the trade
contract the subcontractor and the uh availability of the 1099
um kind of put an individual as me against the world oh they're doing it for how much but I can
do it for this much and then when I can do it for this much and it and it was everybody going down down down and that
they set the standard and that's where everything kind of fell apart and the lower down you go and the wages the
the the different demographic that you're going to attract right I don't need to make a living I just need to make x amount this week yeah look at my
looking at trying to get through the week instead of looking at building a career and we got to get that back and
look Subs are awesome and we we have to have them as an industry now
um but I do think that you know the more professional that they treat their
business the more uh professional that they act on job sites and the more
professional that they um appear to the to the you know like
their outward appearance the better off the industry is going to be and we all we can do is continue to you know
encourage like the professionalism and reward that
encourage high quality work and reward that and encourage punctuality
dependability you know attitude like track and record that stuff so that you
know who should be you know who should be rewarded for taking care
of the the the project and and who should be rewarded for really keeping you know our in almost uh elevating our
our reputation back to where it should be it's it's all of us that have got to do it like all the the installers that
watch his show it's we're the ones that have to do it we have to like I would rather a guy say I'm going to
show up at nine and then I tell my my GC or my superintendent my my
crew will be there at nine now they won't be they'd still rather him be there at seven when the job site opens
like the other trades and if you look at the the one thing that these other
trades do that that's it like us and painters are known for just kind of coming and going as we
please from an industry standpoint but then you got electricians they're there at 6 30 or 7 o'clock and your HVAC guys
and your your framers even I mean like you're still workers for sure you know
they're just they're they're there when the job site starts they leave when the
job sites close um and if and sometimes like I said I know that there's plenty of instances
where it's better for the project the GC the installer all of us to just work
from three to ten because the job site gets can get cleared out uh but making
that deal with the GC that's a different situation than just showing up at 10 or 11 or whenever you get there and the GC
is like hey man this job's open it and there's nothing that'll tick off a superintendent more than showing up at
11 and then trying to stay after he's planning on leaving and he was there at
six there's nothing that will take one off faster usually with my in my experience I've
got to make arrangements where we know that that's going to happen like if we have a two-hour drive or something like that yeah
we try to be open and honest I know sometimes you just gotta conform to the schedule that's set forth by the
general right like they have guidelines for a reason um you gotta you gotta honor that you
gotta respect that this the same way you want them to honor your wishes and respect your your wishes to get your
area they have to sacrifice the floor for you to do the floor we need to we need the floor to install the floor a
lot of times that's just communicating and letting them know that you're going to be there late anyways because like you said they leave at a certain
time that gives us free reign to get things done in some of those common areas so that's always my excuse right
yeah we show up at this time you guys leave at this time just let me know how to lock up I'll lock everything up
because then I can get all this done after you guys leave yeah if you communicate you're right it
it that goes a long way uh but if you're a company and your sub doesn't
communicate with you that that's what he wants to do and he just shows up or you
know the crew just shows up at whatever time is is uh best for them
but nobody else knows then that just doesn't work so back to the show we got off on a bit of a tangent uh because we
love uh installation but on on the show what did you guys think of the uh the
party you know the the farewell um I forget what it was what they called it but the the music and the food and
the the atmosphere and the gains and you know all that first off let me let me let me mention
something um the beginning of the show they did have like a uh a Social Hour
um but then they have a live band like it's so hard to socialize and
mingle when you have a live band in the corner of a small room like that the Acoustics did not compliment just that
was probably not the best of ideas you guys some people were either into the music some people were into socializing
and then there's people like me who left the room because I was getting frustrated that I couldn't hear anybody and no one can ever hear me over that it
was really hard to have conversations yeah in fact a lot of people were gathered
out in the hall because it was just too loud in the room so either that that could be done uh in a way
probably where where it could facilitate the conversation because we were getting into like talking to other I had met new
people from the Press from uh Floor Covering weekly for example and I'm trying to talk to them and you know it
was really difficult to hear but the idea was awesome and it did facilitate a
lot of conversations problem was just couldn't couldn't quite finish them so yeah good point there the party night
though was less about conversations and more about Jeff and his wife dancing Jeff King and and uh Luba yeah yeah it
was it was pretty uh pretty fun to see people kind of Cutting Loose and having a good time I'll tell you that and that
right there that the music everything that fit in right there like the first
off the food spectacular guy whoever whoever did that selection good job
um the whole the whole time the food yes I gotta say the whole time the food was
really fantastic 100 um I really enjoyed uh the the send-off
night right like uh it's I look forward to that because that's everyone has got their week behind them
everyone has made their connections or they're at the back end of their connections and and you get to
you get to catch people at their most relaxed state
um and that's that right there at the end is when you get to know someone more on a personal level and that's and
that's the important thing right there is it's one thing to go there and make a connection um and to walk away with that but it's
another thing to make a personal connection with people and find Common Ground uh uh life in general and that
actually creates in my experience way better uh relationships business-wise or
person um and sorry Mike Kelly I didn't really mean to
beat you that bad at the end there in the cornhole [Laughter] well the cornhole was fun too A lot of
people played it for a little bit it would have been cool to maybe do like sign some people up for a little tournament or something would have been
cool but it was a song next time but they kind of had that with the
basketballs um yeah the uh the activities I like all that stuff like nothing
brings adults together like playing a kids game again and being able to have
that that friendly banter back and forth right like I I just I'm all for that I'm all for
that I don't know I pretty much stayed at like the photo booth the whole time yeah I didn't even make it over to the
photo base it was yeah we know we were looking for you we got Ben yeah you got I seen Ben and your guys's
uh photos it was pretty awesome I'm waiting to see what what my sister's
photos with clucky but um we'll see what happens with that and clucky was a welcomed guest if you weren't you have
to go next year maybe to to learn about clucky but uh that was pretty funny the
whole time her timing is good let me just tell you your sister has great timing
what's that it's just not caring yeah yeah
well um I don't want to you know extend this to fill an hour we were intending
uh to kind of go over and just talk about the stuff that we loved and the
the stuff that we just seen some opportunities and and discuss how the show went I would say that for me it was
the best show and in spirit of like Daniel mentioned earlier the the Huddle
and our tagline of maintaining forward progress we can all do better no matter
how good we are and um and so there's just some some nuggets
in this that maybe uh we can see some some positive change in the future and
I'm sure these you know the the leadership has had these discussions and you know knowing those guys they've
probably got some some plans already around it but just uh three guys perspective that's been to all the shows
and and uh spent time with all the people it was It was a
it was as close to a 10 of a show that I could give it was really awesome I really enjoyed it
and we were talking about making yourself uncomfortable Jose is actually on here now he's the guy that I'm gonna
sat next to that was sitting alone at the table great guy man and you wouldn't uh
wouldn't even have known if I wasn't just taking the time out to go talk to him yeah that's a great lesson for all of us
to just you know put yourself out there a bit I'm an introvert by nature but I force
myself to get out and talk and and communicate with people and and I know that
from from the perspective that you know after a big party like that or a big
Gathering I'm exhausted I'm not energized my business developer at the flooring company she she'll go to one of
those things and want to go out for you know drinks with everybody afterwards and go continue the thing and I'm like
I'm worn out I'm ready for bed so that's how I know I'm an introvert and uh
extroverts get the energy from those you know really intense conversations and
like uh that atmosphere and I I I get depleted a bit from it but that doesn't
mean you don't do it is the whole point you you met a friend you gained a a colleague through the deal and that's
what happens when you put yourself out there a bit um speaking of putting yourself out there I want to thank everybody that
watches the show I'm continuously kind of uh humbled when I go to a show and
they say hey man the Huddle's awesome and you guys are great and Daniel and Jose I love those guys man they're and
they just start gushing about how much they they uh love the show and how many people tuned in through different uh
media outlets and it's really just humbling and cool and I appreciate
everybody who joins and and they came up and said hi and and knew me from the
Huddle and we hadn't met yet and it was really awesome yeah and I like uh
the fact that even though some people like hey you know what why should we have I watched this other podcast too
but for them uh not to say any name for them to recognize it
there is a difference right like between uh one podcast of the next
because I know there's more than one out there uh some are installer based some are business based some are a few you
know a mixture of in between and um any feedback negative or positive you
guys I love it because all I can do is is help us all be better yeah and who knows maybe you'll come in and
join one day and give us some perspective too um we know we know you talk about being
introverted a lot of these guys want to say something they just don't want to be on screen or something like that yeah
well they have those cool uh avatars that you could be like uh you could be an elephant or something if you want be
a rhino it doesn't matter yeah and blur your background I mean you can be a whole different character oh you're mad
so the uh I I would uh like to bring up that what we are going to start uh some
improvements for the uh podcast here the Huddle
um we're gonna try to have one or two guests on on a monthly basis uh add a
little bit of of few more guests we've got a lot of guest requests at the show too right what's
that different perspectives you can get some professionals on there that know things more than we do yep expand the
the um you the knowledge base as well as others perspectives uh everything from
design to um to finances and and so this next year
several manufacturers reached out and you know they they want to be part of the show uh we've got
other technology companies in our industry that want to come on and and
um as well as some installers want to come on which that really warms my heart I'm I'm hoping to get some of those guys
on like haven't installed you know do one you know every other month or something uh or as many as we could feel
of like in style installer fireside chat and just like rap about the the rough
stuff going on but then the great things that you love about the industry um yeah I'm looking forward to a lot of
the changes we're gonna have the production level a little bit you might see I got a mic finally and I'm not just
using the uh the uh computer audio and so some of those things are going to
happen we're gonna get our our the studio here set up a little bit better and uh bring on some guests some New
Perspectives some new friends and um hopefully be able to provide our
community with some more value I a lot of the feedback that I got and I'd love
to see if you guys Echo this but was they love this conversational style not
just always interviewing somebody so we'll toss in some interviews but I don't want to abandon this because I
love rapping with you guys over you know subject lines but that doesn't mean that we can't just have more panelists and us
still just have that fireside chat kind of thing this conversational based deal
and it it keeps it authentic too um you know we're not so monotone
reading the script uh I don't even think we've ever really
yeah that we might have some ideas but then we spin off it's what we do it's what we do yeah
well it comes like you said more authentic and it's just true I mean we don't plan these things out with a great
level of of planning I don't honestly know that I would want to I
like getting on here having a topic uh prepping a little bit understanding the
topic and and some of the insights I can provide and then chatting with you guys
and then we we shoot the show so there's not a ton of you know heavy heaviness to
it so that's why I'm saying like the more the merrier if we can have you know I I like
I would really like to have you know 10 10 15 installers on just having a
fireside chat you know got it some controls we have to do because of you know the the nature of
it um you know nature of a podcast of everybody in stock and no one's heard so
but you can have like a subject line and and multiple different perspectives and
I look forward to some of those here this next year so so do we
all right fellas well thanks for joining and again I enjoyed hanging out with you guys at the show we were all running
like crazy so we didn't get to spend as much time together as as uh I would have liked but
I just I I love spending time with you guys so I had a fun time the show was
awesome and uh I could tell you guys enjoyed it as well so I'm what man I'm still tired
all right well until next uh week you guys have a good productive positive
uh next seven days and we'll see you guys next week at 3 P.M Central uh on
Tuesday we are going to have designers on and talk about some colors and
designs and flooring and you know Aesthetics versus performance and some of those so if you're in the if you're
an installer that provides materials this could really be beneficial for you to join next week
if you go even if you go to the home uh you know like floor decor and buy product and then resell it to your
client picking those products out assisting your client with those selections these designers will have
some good insight for you yes sir and hey just so everyone knows whoever tuned in last week I just want
everyone to know that Dave is okay he is he survived I've seen him in person he's
fine Dave went down
yeah go watch uh last week's episode to uh get some more insight on that so until then guys have a productive week
thank you so much again and we will uh catch you next week thanks everyone all
right bye guys
The Huddle - Episode 64 - Best Practices for Running an Installation Team
In this week's episode, the guys bring some special guests in live from CFI FCICA 2023 Convention and Tradeshow to discuss a little about the upcoming show, as well as best practices when it comes to an installer moving from a one-man-show to a full blown installation crew.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
um my typical intro is a little off but uh we're going we're gonna hit into this so
um welcome everybody it's just me today uh the two studs are in Orlando at the CFI
fcica convention I'll be joining up with those dudes tomorrow and as well as the
uh Princess uh you know what I'm not sure if crystal is
going to be there to be honest with you because Miss Crystal Sims is uh also
competing uh at the regional qualifier for the
um installer challenge coming up at Tyson in uh January so installer of the year
so uh you guys have me and the boys will
join when they get on from uh whatever they're doing hey
fellas so as stated they're down in Orlando and
uh at the show and uh what's up guys
they're still connecting so I'm going to start off with giving you uh a quick overview of what we're going to be
discussing today obviously the guys are down at the uh fcica and CFI show but
today is around managing installation teams now this particular topic is more so the
installer who then hires some other installers and kind of has uh you know a couple Crews working with him and he
starts managing um those Crews and taking on more work
and some of the tips tricks and strategies uh and particularly some
shortfall or pitfalls that we we've experienced over the years in working
with Subs who've went through that progression so can you guys hear me there down in fancy
Florida they may hear me but we can't hear them
so voice check voice check not working okay
so I'm gonna lead in and these guys will join in whenever they get the audio set
up so you know it's it's a pretty common progression when an installer goes out
on his own there they are on the court it's a port we can hear you guys
can you hear me now yes sir can you hear us
yep are set up so what's up fellas
how was the trip scramble mode is all
the trip the trip is good it was uh I've been down here for a few days already Daniel and them got down here yesterday
um I mean it is what it is you used to be on a plane it was just a standard flight
Maybe sweet I don't need that well today
um as I previously stated we're going to be going over managing installation teams and and really what that boils
down to is um an installer going through the
progression of maybe he was an hourly or a helper with someone or an apprentice and then became an installer himself
or herself and then decided to grow their team and start taking on more work
it's a pretty standard progression with a good installer is that they will take on the uh additional
um you know Manpower or team up with some other guys and uh start doing more
work so that being said the
um a couple of the pitfalls that I've experienced in this progression is
you know overestimating what that what one of your Crews can do and taking on more work then you have the capability
of actually completing um we've seen a lot of guys get into
trouble with that also in that same vein is is maybe
overestimating their ability or that they're going to treat the job the way you would so in both Accords
accountability is a kind of a key component so if you're a installer and
you're running a few subs or a few guys working with you as a sub or a few Crews
[Music] the the key is accountability like you know checking in with them having uh
conversations about your quality um as well as making sure your crews are
trained uh the the the biggest Pitfall that I've seen is
um we award a job to somebody and they have one of their Crews do it and the
quality expectation is not there um and it doesn't match what the lead
installer who we've worked for worked with for many years uh may have been you know capable of
delivering and what we're used to receiving from that uh that particular crew so
all I can say is make sure that you place your cruise uh or your your even
if they're on your W-2 and you're paying them by the hour or however your
Arrangement is just making sure you understand their capabilities and that you put them on jobs where they're going
to be successful are you guys uh audioed up and and I think we're good now can you hear us yep
well you guys rock stepping away from from from the
activities down there um will you guys
you know to drill down on this do you guys use subs and and
um have you guys experienced some of that where you're used to working with a certain guy and he's hired another
another um crew and and he's running two or
three crews and running himself and then you get a job that's not quite up to par
from a quality or performance standpoint um I don't I don't think we we
personally have not run into that right because if we hire someone direct um we're
we know that we're hiring an album they don't have someone else that that's coming in so I can't uh personally say
that we've experienced that however we have been that sub before that needed
extra outside help um and have reached out to uh you know ex-employee who's on their own or
someone who we've worked alongside to help us out and the work hasn't been up to par so
um that has happened and I totally get it I understand and um
we are always open and honest about that situation when it when it happens like Hey we're a little bit overwhelmed right
now in order for us to make this happen I got to bring somebody else on um and
they're fortunate enough we we work with people who are very understanding and
we understand that we uh full responsibility to remedy anything that
that individual who is helping us out uh has done wrong or may have caused so but
we've been pretty fortunate it's only been in a couple little things and they've always been minor but but that's about it and a lot honestly a lot of the
a lot of the downfall to some of those experiences has been communication right uh the other person just doesn't
communicate the same way we do or the same way we had the the people we have the the
luxury of working with uh become accustomed to yeah yeah communication seems to be that
foundational piece that always comes up in almost all of these come uh podcasts and it's because it's such an uh
important part of of getting uh work done especially when you're talking
about working with a you got a new guy going to a job and and all the moving
factors on a project that communication becomes like the most important thing
um yeah we've we've experienced that we've had guys that worked uh you know with us for many many years and then as
they got more and more work more and more capabilities got to know some other people in the industry that bring on new
Crews or new team members and leave a guy or a gal even uh on the
job site and not the the same level of communication
expectation and quality and all those things just they're they're not the same
now we've also had to work out plenty of times and the times that it's worked out
it's it's been where they communicate with the main guy or the main person in
a high quality Manner and then that person communicates with us the way we're used to and then it works and when
when I would also say on a quality front the guys that uh the cruiser that perform very well uh
under this condition are ones that value getting their team
trained or sending them to certification courses or or what have you uh one of
our larger Subs has a couple of Crews that are just phenomenal and he's invested in them by sending them to you
know protect all uh training he invested in one and got them uh CT sent them to
CTI certification course and so on the tile side so when you're making sure
your team is as well trained and capable as yourself that's when success can
happen but remember that communication is always key yeah 100 and um
it to add to that too because you had mentioned something early on about uh uh setting up for Success right not in
those words but sometimes you got to put your guys out there in awkward positions for develman
for you to find out if they could if the outcome is what you need if
they're going to perform Under Pressure if they're going to be able to delegate tasks uh and Runner crew right someone
who's got their best hand skills might not be the best lead someone who's a really good lead might
not have all the knowledge that they can move move the parts around where they need to be
um and it yeah as Mr Robin Thompson's here by the
way instead of him commenting here look let's just add him to the let's add them
to the couch oh let's hear this old man just sit down here hey what's up Roland from your buddy
good to see you sir my comment was so many times a fantastic
coach whether it was football baseball whatever was not always the best player
in school or a player in college but they had that knowledge and they had that talent to know how to put the
pieces together to make a a good team it's the same thing in our business you
know it's not always your guy that has the best hand skills that has that best knowledge of how to
put a project together especially on a big commercial project he has to be able to work with the team
he's got to work with the GM he's got to work with the designers all right work with the Air Tech so your your guy were they good hand
skills is good at performing that but not always not always good at lining
that up for that performance to go jump yeah I don't know if that's all you
were talking about but that's well that's that's the bulk of what we're talking about and that's a good point is
you know we talk about making sure that your team is trained but you got to make sure that you have the the capability
and that you're equipped to be able to manage and run other people because managing people is what you're doing
when you start um bringing on new team members and sending them out to projects you got to
be able to be a efficient awesome uh you got to be an efficient
manager and not always have to be the absolute best installer yourself but you
definitely have to be a good manager of other people and and that's what is this is um
understanding people finding common ground uh being able to really really
relate um as far as lingual lingual and uh
if you're a people person you're a people person right it doesn't matter what crowd you're in um and that's a lot of the battle right
there and like say all the time we just started again today communication if you know how to communicate with many
different levels of people um you're going to find success in leadership
um it's just hard to stay away from a leadership role or position if your
communication skills are are better than your uh your hand skills or your
execution in anything that you do well it's sort of Give an example that I can
come from me all right I'm here I couldn't be here without
my guy back at home all right I do the trainings for I had it was at a
point in my business that either I was gonna have to cut back the trainings I do come back you know TV
stuff I do and give more time there because I was you know I needed to give
it to it so instead I went out and knowing people
I know I got the best salesperson in the area he's always been known
everybody's sought after him he knows he's been selling and his dad had a store he knows how to order he knows how
to schedule the guys he knows how to close deals right
so I went out and got him put him there so when I'm gone I can feel confident
that my business is back there running so could he could he install a single
lick no he can't all right is he a financial wizard no he's not all right
but is he a wizard when it comes to selling and closing the deal in hand calling the manufacturers follow and
tracking orders he knows how to do that and he's very very good at it all right well that's what I needed him for
all right so that's when you're an installer and you're looking at or
you're running Crews or you're looking at jobs you need to look at the person that can enhance what you can't do or
what you might can do but you have other things to do so you look at that hole that's missing in your in your company
your business and you then feed it with somebody that knows how to do that and
in that case in my case is my sales team all right um but in the case of an installer like
I said it could be somebody that that might not have the best you know
skills at everything but has the skills that you need yeah it's a good point I I
it brings up another question so you know so often installers because
they're good a high quality guy or or just a high quality crew in general will
get more more and more offers for work and for projects especially in the
commercial world I'm sure it's the same in the residential world and then they they get this feeling like
they got to go get more people what you're kind of in alluding to is
you better self-evaluate and find out where your weak points are so that you can hire to accommodate for those weak
points so if you're not the best scheduler and the best person at following up maybe hiring someone like
that and you stay out on your knees installing if you're that good with your hands until you get somebody that can
help you kind of run your cruise and schedule and and do that piece so a
little bit of self-evaluation it sounds like is necessary uh kind of filling
those uh you know we'll call them Talent holes yeah and I that's what I was more
or less relating to is that you know I had my need I had my wants that I wanted to do
and that was to keep training and keep doing that stuff so I looked at my need because I could have done it I could
have stepped back and done it but I had to give up what I like doing right so I looked at my need and then I looked at
and evaluated who I could put in that need that could fulfill it right so the same thing like you said you know you
get installers and they wouldn't want to get big and get more crews and more crews I did that years ago when I when I
subcontract you know I brought on more guys and I was running multiple Crews and you know and I ended up working more
hours because I didn't you know I was young I was hungry of getting all I cared
about is I was doing every job in the area everybody was calling me but
I wasn't really getting anything more at the end of the day because I was busy going back
because guys got called in sick and and I had to go fill it in so I had to work 18 hours that day because I had to do my
job and the other job so it's not always you know those days you know
you know and so it's not always getting bigger if you decide to get bigger which
is great because there's a lot of successful bigger outfits but if you go back and find you're going
to find they had a person there that had the talent to tell good talent you know
they sort of understand so they they hired smartly
and they grew smartly so you know my I
guess advice to somebody who's thinking of that or were doing that would be don't jump to it higher and look smartly
yeah so this will be strategic in your hires and your intention and and understand the pitfalls I think uh was
that uh Gino uh Gina Wickman has a couple of books that that refer to EOS
the entrepreneur operating system right um right people the right seats like
like I didn't know until we read that book I didn't know until it was presented to us
but it just something so simple makes so much sense right and that's what he says
he says uh Myers slow I am actually in the talkout group with you your sister
little baby sister oh you better get in there and we're supposed to get up and Dave said I can't get up front and
present it because I do all the time so I said I'm out of here he says you better be coming back
I'm going back yeah thank you thanks for joining us and
I appreciate your input sir hey no problem you guys have a good show I got to get back into the into our breakout
duty calls yeah that sounds good dude he calls you did it kind of ditched them a little bit and they broke
up into groups and then uh but yeah it's all right
so um well it's interesting having Rollin come
in and and chat through that I wish I'd had one I had one more question for him which was specific pitfalls that he seen
um because I I when I was a sub and I had uh my careers
I did the same as everybody which uh or I should say I did it the wrong way I
won't say I did the the same as everybody I did it the wrong way I just started filling bodies with installers
and then had the same exact thing that Roland was uh alluding to there which is
a guy wouldn't show up no call no show and I'd have to still get that client's
day's worth of work done even though I had my own crew going and it's like you
just want to add to try to fulfill the need because there's so much if you're a
good installer there's a ton of work out there and um trying to fulfill that need and I
kind of had the same ego that Roland was just talking about I just cared that I was doing all this work and wanted to
drive by building say I did that when I did that when I did that one uh but at the end of the day if it's not done
right um you know if you don't realize it yourself that
you're not the best manager of other people then maybe you should hire that role first and then start to build your
your cruise out um that that was a pitfall for me like Roland said I was young as well and just
we do the same we we tried to get too much work like you look at it like oh if I get more
work I'll be more profitable the business will be more successful and you know as I was just talking with uh or
texting with my buddy Ray who actually got me in the flooring industry um uh with him the other day is you know
he's he said I've hit this dollar amount and this much money is net profit so far
this year and I said you know more people doesn't mean more profit and he
said it took me so many years to understand that you know and that's what we did we got
too many people too many crews going we're putting out fires uh babysitting a
lot margins went down the overall dollar amount went up right don't get me wrong
like it went up but what was left over after it went up
wasn't worth all the headache and the hassle like and that was young business mind naive
not knowing what to do and not understanding the the that concept of right people right seat
um and that thing applies to way more than just running a business right that applies to your crew you know a crew of
two crew of three you don't want the wrong person talking to the clients you don't want the wrong person installing
uh material they're not comfortable with because the other person I have seniority I got to go talk to the client
you know is that like you got to be sure yeah a lot of the intentions a lot of the the larger Crews that do
well have a a point person a a a not necessarily
even just a salesperson but like an assistant that schedules the cruise and
make sure that you know they have everything I wish I would have thought that way back then I
just hired more people while I'm doing the payroll I'm figuring out who's going
well where I'm managing I'm making sure they got gas in their truck I'm you know
all this stuff and then I'm still trying to install it it was a mess that's where you you'll
get the title of CEO Chief everything officer yeah well I was
uh that times two it felt like you know you're doing absolutely everything and
like you said it it did not turn into a greater bottom line for me uh it turned
into certainly more money but more headache and like said if you if you evaluate
those um is is juice worth the squeeze and so you know
yeah and uh so I I I think getting somebody there that can help you manage
the timing of everything and that would that's a that's a a key component I see
in some of the bigger Crews that they have more than just the lead with two guys or something if
it's bigger than that and you start getting and splitting up and going to different job sites that's when you
ought to start thinking about somebody to schedule your time and and uh eventually trying to replace yourself
from an installation standpoint you ought to have that first uh
kind of scheduler manager type person in place um
I know one crew in particular that does it really well but they didn't they did
not hire that manager until the pain was high enough that he was like I have to find somebody and it improved this
business quite a bit just having somebody running around at the job sites making sure everybody had what they
needed checking on the everybody and he was able to just you know he's
able to just install and now he doesn't even have to do that he's just the face
of the deal and managing the cruise and you know what and and some of them
some of what I've experienced what we've experienced is
nothing is guaranteed right like you're you're making changes and you're trying to do all this but nothing is guaranteed
um all you all you can do is just keep pushing forward and trying to make your decisions work and trying to make the
business successful and uh sometimes you just gotta take that leap
of faith and hope for the best and a lot of reservation that we've had
through some of the growth is we're just afraid to give someone that
that power over what we've been controlling right and sometimes that is very hard because
some decisions that people make within your company could affect more than just your company or you it can affect
everyone else that is blanketed under that and uh you you got to make sure
that you have the right people you might not always feel like you're financially ready for some of that
change but if that person helps generate the revenue to offset their wages plus
some um having that that Outlook is is huge too
but having people to talk to like Paul who's been through and who has said
you're going to yield some results you just you you just have to you have to trust the process
um yeah yeah and that that brings up my the the
second point which is um I found a lot of times the guys
that are out hiring people or uh looking for for
um crew members do not take into account the things that
I've learned in business which is hiring based on culture now you may not feel
like you have a culture as a uh installation company but you you
honestly do you just don't know what it is so evaluate that and what I mean by that
if you're the early morning hard-working guy that you know uh you and your guys
and girls get up early and you guys get going and and
you're gonna hire somebody who's notoriously shows up at job sites at 10
o'clock and expect it because now they work for you that that's going to change
and I've seen that as the other major Pitfall like if you
are the go-getter early morning kind of person and and you be you're a hard worker and this other installer is known
for like I said showing up you know at nine ten o'clock in the morning or always has a vehicle issue or leans on
excuses a lot near the no excuse kind of person you better make sure you guys mesh well you know uh I don't think
enough people think of that there that's why you see um at least I have seen
guys that work for different Crews and they'll work for this crew for a while and then next thing you know they're
over here working for some other sub and then next thing you know they're working on their own and then they they they go
back to work for another sub over here and they're just always moving around well you got to make sure that whoever
you're hiring makes a fit with how if if you don't feel like you have a culture think about
it like personality that their personality matches with yours that their work ethic you know their
temperament all those things everything meshes well before you hire them
um don't just hire somebody because they know how to install a flooring product that you want to install you know make
sure they're a good fit for your personality and and the way you want your business to run because I I can
tell you one thing that I can vouch for and I know these guys can is the Box stops with you it's not like
whoever you're working for the GC is gonna you know or if you're working for a flooring store that that they're gonna
go worry about oh I'm sorry I sent this guy over there no they hired you to do
the job the bug stops with the main guy so it doesn't matter like you said you you
um they hire you and the person you send is a representative of you and an extension
of your company whether they're an employee or a subcontractor they're still an extension well you think about
it like when you see some of these posts on like where I'm in some Community groups right for our city
and some people will be like I went to this chain restaurant and this person was
horrible I'll never go there again and it's not the owner's fault or it's not
the owner that did it to them or anything it's that one employee that made them decide I'm never going to go to this specific location again
it's the same thing when you're dealing with you know us or someone that that works for us
it's everyone has to have the same attitude going into the day in order for for you
guys to measure well yeah I think everybody's in yeah bad days too
right it just sucks that you could do a million things right it's just everybody always remembers you for the one thing
you did wrong um depending on how how much they
they like to hover over that one thing yeah at the end of the day though
um in construction the good quality people even through those mistakes always kind of land on their feet
because while you might take it in the old shorts on a particular project we've
we've experienced that the company or the GC we're working for or whatever
will come back around and realize that it was you know a pretty isolated issue
the key is though when it's not an isolated issue when it's something that continuously happens that you gotta
evaluate who you're hiring and and make sure that you're you know getting those
those people that are going to fulfill the job the same way that you have
fulfilled them it's a really kind of a sticky scenario with with installation
teams it's you know I've plenty of times hired a guy and he sends out
um you know another crew and that crew does a fantastic job and then another
time he'll send out a different crew that doesn't do such a fantastic job well it's not like I threw him to the
curb over it but you know the key is is if that continued to happen with every
Crew He gave me well then I would have to evaluate whether or not we could do business with them anymore
yeah and that's where he has to evaluate if he's going to do business with the person that keeps on messing up for him
as well right because a lot of are what we call our differentiator in
um in our area is that we do hire employees and we do pay them on a W-2 so
uh they kind of the construction companies kind of know what they're getting they're like oh we're hiring
them yeah I know this is who's going to be there on site and a not a lot of its
times but a lot of the construction companies have you know come up to me and was like you know that's the reason
why you won this bid is because we know exactly what we're gonna get yeah
yeah and you guys have done a really good job of like managing your growth to
not go you know crazy and then all of a sudden have to hire a bunch of uh sub Crews
that you don't know you have some select guys that you use but for the most part
you handle your work with W with your W-2 employees and try to hire right but
and that's a caution that's a that's a success tale for for installers out there looking to grow and you guys grew
your installation business into a full service shop I did the same thing so we have that in common and one of the
Common Grounds we've had over this time of of uh getting to know each other over
the years is the fact that we have that in common we both made mistakes but at this
juncture we've learned a lot of things and we're just trying to tell you guys out there that if you want to do the
same kind of progression uh there are some easier ways than the way I did it
I'll tell you that and one of them is hiring right and not hiring out of desperation hiring the right people that
fit you and when you feel like you have a culture I'd say fit your culture you
know one of my mentors Andy uh Priscilla with
first form out of St Louis he'll go out when he hires now that's a big company but I
thought this was interesting when he has somebody that he's interested in through an interview he'll actually go out and
look in their car and see if it's tidy and if it's or if it's a mess and he does that because not
because it would matter at another place but he that's one of his pet peeves is someone I mean he'd hate me my desk is a
messy mess if to me it wouldn't matter two two cents whether or not your car is
a mess but to him because that's his culture and how he is
he um he goes out and check and takes a takes a peek in their vehicle before
before he signs on the dotted line to hire somebody sees if they kind of match
him so that's probably a bit of an extreme case but that's still the same same thought process
not really I mean I get it right you want to see how someone handle
keeps their personal stuff uh if they keep their personal stuff nice chances are they're going to keep something that
doesn't belong to them nice as well I get it and and I used to tell the guys
all the time when I was in the field like hey we've got to keep the van clean like I don't like this mess pick up your mess and and there somebody asked me why
and I was like what happens if we go to a jobs play at one time and the person we're doing the work for or
um or a store that hires us says you know what it's easier if I just hop in your vehicle and I'll show you where to
go so let me just hop in let's ride together like are you gonna be like hold on a minute
right like so you know what are you going to do it's better to be prepared for something like
that and that's just not the vehicle thing right but and I guess overall in
life it's better to be prepared for someone to judge you off of something um that you fully have control over and
that's appearance cleanliness um
there's a good parallel I mean I do look at guys tools and judge the crap out of
them like if I see a guy that's got patch built up on his trial and you
could tell that he's never won pulling pulling out a scraper to scrape
the the patch off or he's got to bang it on the I mean that kind of stuff I'm like clean your
equipment it this is what makes you money keep your stuff clean and we preach out to our employee installers
obviously we don't have the the need uh or the the ability to control that with
Subs obviously but it is a Telltale sign of how well like a guy that keeps his
equipment uh I'll say the whole crew that keeps their equipment clean and and
and nice they are more likely to keep your job site
clean and nice than somebody who has a messy mess of everything well they care and that goes back to
what you said about the culture thing um I know that my tools are my investments
right the tools are are most the tools you buy are temporary but
I am still going to treat them really well because they're only going to work as good as you keep them
and if you're maintaining them like crap they're going to work like crap they're
not going to last as long as they should but Daniel will tell you we'll buy something
and he was like Hey we got to replace this what we gotta replace it we just bought that he's like dude we just bought that
2017. and it's like uh man I know like
I know we could have got more out of it and and and that goes back to say the tooling like I have tools at home that I
have had probably 20 years now nobody's allowed to touch those tools
right those are mine nobody touches them I don't ever borrow them out they're mine
they're mine they've been well kept nobody touched their majority of them
are not just for flooring but because I know I've taken care of them and I don't want to put that
responsibility to someone else's hands so I got a good good thing going with them 20 years man
yeah you've got a relationship with your tools at that point 100 .
well it also boils down to efficiency if you have to pull out your it's so much
easier to clean a patching trowel or something like that when you're done with it and the stuff's wet there's no
doubt about that that's not up for debate and it's also not up for debate that it your tool is going to be in
better shape in a year uh than if you then if you constantly have to beat it
to death to get the patch off or you know your buckets are always full of crap and you got to beat the crap out of
them to to mix new patch up those things are are
not like efficiency-wise you get on a job it's it is easier to clean them out
when they're wet it's just like pushing this can down the road and taking care of your equipment
um you know we've had a whole podcast on uh those types of items but they come
right back in here because that's the point though if you're gonna hire somebody that maybe the Andy purcella uh
equivalent to going and looking at their car is go look at their tools go see how they take care of their their stuff
before you hire them make sure that you're in line because how they take care of their own is exactly how they're
going to take care of yours I can tell you that yeah I typically try to return things in
better condition than what I got them um and that's just that's just me right like I don't
I don't want to be the reason that something breaks when I give it back yeah
so how's uh you know guys I mean at the end of the day I I think that the the
key takeaways here uh are you know kind of like Roland said no know where your
weaknesses are and hire for those the right people on the in the bus is uh
you know there's a book good to great as well as traction from Geno that uh both talk about putting the right
people on the you know having the right people on the right seat you can have the right person but in the wrong seat so even in your uh you know install
company you can have the wrong people in the wrong seat so knowing what you need to hire for is not
it's just not always hiring a uh another installer sometimes it can be making you
more efficient as an installer by having somebody take the phone calls or processing the work orders and doing
your billing and and making sure that you're you know you you have your materials on site and your guys are and
and your crews are all lined up and stuff so you know evaluate that and
um you know prevent the pitfall of going into either
hiring or going into business or somebody that doesn't match your personality or match your your uh
culture and um you know growing
if you can hire the guys as W-2 that's ideal anyway uh this subbing to a sub
thing is a to me a problem in our industry that we need to figure out how
to not have happen um you can team up with this uh but
another sub if you need help on a job or something but like just subbing your workout to other subs almost being like
a broker um that's just taking margin out of the actual installer's pocket to me doesn't
make sense but um those are some of the pitfalls
Dave Garden said hi like he's gonna what's up Dave so
here here I'll get off later here we'll let them introduce themselves real quick
all right Tony say hi to these guys
let me come around this way don't see it I'm sure you guys all know me hey Tony so for everybody everybody in
the audience we got Dave garden with CFI coming in you talk about a guy that's uh
built some Crews up over the years That's Tony Booker hey Tony what's up
Tony was the uh last uh president of CFI no format yep he was a Tony's uh an
inspiration to all of us he actually runs a ccs in Fort Wayne right now
best part about that is he is our tech line
his cell phone yeah [Music]
so anyway how's the show starting off for you guys I think the team meeting we thought we
did today was a team meeting I think it went okay it would uh what's that
oh yeah other than Jose and Dan getting up and leaving it just you know and the
whole the thing about it is right when they were leaving is when we were going to highlight their activities and so the
only activity we highlighted was their butts as they're walking out the door well just in time
no it's uh that's that's all it is it's just a team meeting today we went over uh I think it was a productive team
meeting yeah uh we went over some things and um I learned some things and that's
about it the meat potatoes as it happens when you get here well I'll be there tomorrow morning and
uh for everybody watching I the CFI that we always talk about on the
Huddle here these are the guys that make it happen behind the scenes always working to put together great training
uh events and sessions and and trying to figure out the right
you know whether it's um the right curriculum for a new training or or where uh particular needs
are Across the Nation These Guys these guys make it happen so when we talk about CFI these are the guys but you
know behind the scenes making it all work and and so Dave is you know just to
maybe tell you a little bit and I'll let Dave expand on this but Dave you you ran a large uh installation team and one of
the today's topics actually the topic of the day was managing installation teams
as you're growing you know maybe you're a one or two person crew and then you start hiring other Crews and you start
to get that pain of them not fulfilling the the need or maybe they don't have
the same work ethic as you and so we were talking about some of them pitfalls and you were a guy that grew a a large
install team so uh maybe you can expand on that a little bit
hey when I I used to have hair enough said enough said but uh no the
thing is you can't hire yourself all right that's the first thing you have to understand you got to be able to
put Faith in other people to do their jobs provide them with the training that is necessary and the the real big thing
is you don't want to give somebody a project that will hurt them so you have to understand and know who you have
working for you and as you scale that then you have to hire people that understand that in their own Community
if you scale that to other communities and that's and that's difficult because you become you go from managing a
handful of Crews to managing the people that are managing the crews that's that's the that's the hard that was the
hardest scale for me that was the hardest jump for me because my comfort zone is with the installer
when I found out that I was I was really great at uh rebuilding the company and
maybe not so great at managing the company you know because because managing the companies about the people
you hire to manage all right and you need that and when you get to that point where you gotta have
you got to rely on those people and you got to have trust that they're going to do their jobs and then if they you can't trust them
you've got to be willing to make that change in a hurry because it cannot cost you your crew all right yeah one thing
that I've that I'll tell people is that when what I like to do when I go to a warehouse when I was running the 14
warehouses here show up to the warehouse I go to that back alley
throw that back alley and help the guys unload their trucks and and get to know the helpers
why well think about it those helpers are going to give you more information about what's going on in that job than
you're ever going to hear when you step inside that shop right but the other thing is you're building relationships
and those relationships are important so you know and the funny thing is is now
is after we scaled that company and got it really big I would I would go in to try to do a
training and I'd have to convince people I installed carpet right
don't you know me well no they don't know me and so
you're never just an installer remember that you're never just an installer but you can't hire yourself because yourself
won't work for you what do you say to the guy what do you say to the guy that or the
crew that uh you know the lead lead person on a crew that you know has a lot
of Demand on him uh that you know because they do good work they
got more and more like pressure to do more you know I I own a flooring company
and our good guys we lean on I mean it's just natural that like I know he can do
it I know he's on this job but maybe as soon as he's done there we can get him over here and you're you're kind of and
so then they start going in and hiring some some uh crew members and that's
where it starts to fall apart if they don't do um what what's the pitfalls there
constant training because the pitfalls are a a is if you hire people and
there's only so many ladders down in a chain before somebody can't afford to make a living
all right yeah and so you got to be careful of that and how you set people up because if you've got just because
you've got your your a crew or whatever you're going to call them uh your Apex guy
uh he's he's great for you but the guy he hires
is not that he's not going to be the same as that guy even though he's getting trained by him but he's also
getting paid less and so that you have to be careful because it there's there's no reason to
run a business if you're not going to make any money there's no there's no reason so make sure that uh from my
standpoint I got to make sure that that Apex guy can afford to pay his guy correct and then I got to make sure that his guy
he's actually filtering it down to this guy and when we're crossing there's a lot of gray area here because because
we're going to tell somebody how to run their business what's that make them an employee yes
so there's a lot of gray area there that and I found him I'm gonna put a plug in
here the more certifications and trainings I did inside my warehouse uh the the more
I got to know everybody that was working for everybody and so you got to you you would hear
things that you didn't know um and then the point is to make sure you're doing things with them now Dwayne
who lives in your community has something completely special I mean he has his guys out for barbecues
right yeah you can't know that guy without loving him right so so if you
work for him you you know him he he has I could just see Dwayne having 14
warehouses and going into a different community and just just just to make sure that he had a barbecue out back
where everybody think about this it says genius though because he's getting to know everybody
in a social setting where they want to know him and that and that so if you want to
scale something and you want guys to feel comfortable where they're at you need to make sure they're comfortable with you as a leader
it without that there's it's just a job and not a career it's just a placeholder
not the place they want to be and that makes it makes a big difference
yeah we touched on that earlier a little bit that you know one of the keys to hiring is making sure if you're small
and you don't your your installation company is small and you don't feel like you have a culture you do
discover what that culture is and it may just boil down to your personality but neither regard you got to make sure
you're hiring right and that the people that you bring on Match you or match your company's
culture promotes a good example to be honest with you he's very um he's outgoing and and very uh robust
is a good way I could put it if you're a very quiet person uh and that that
bothers you or if he can't get a rise out of you here and there uh or you
don't get his uh silly jokes or something uh you know there you can hire
wrong and I know he'd tell you you know he's he's made some hires where the personality fit just was not there and
so that's one of the things that just because you can install doesn't mean it's a good hire well you have to remember the most
important thing about scaling Paul as if if he comes up or you come up
short on payroll on a Friday good luck at work out on Monday yeah all right
you pay your installers before you pay yourself that's it that's the best and
best advice I can give anybody because your installers come into your shop and
they see and they they see a check that is short because you can't afford them and then they see you pulling a boat
down the road that's it's it's it's it's it's uh uh that's a problem that's a problem yeah
problem guys so make sure that you pay them first all right that's uh
it's not the best good advice good advice to every crew out there is make
sure your guys are paid and you know pay them what they're worth too uh as another note you know if they're if
they're knocking out of the park for you make sure you're knocking out of the park for them yeah hey we got to go
finish cleaning up okay well hey we're gonna we're gonna close this sucker down so thank you guys for for joining and
and uh we'll see you tomorrow Tony thank you for talking so much
Dave went down man down man sniper he's
over there he's up there I seen him Dave wears as high as 28 shoes so he his his
toe got caught yeah
we didn't get that on video though all right man [Laughter]
he's laughing right now no that what he just said that's 100 right as a leader
you have to eat last and I always plug plug Simon sinek and that's what he always says he has a book called Leaders
Eat Last and that's true right because as a leader um he goes into like the military and how you know that's where
he got it from is in the military you you see everyone that is in a lead
position they let everyone else see and then they'll eat and I didn't realize until you know I really started
listening to it but that's how I've always been you know even as if I'm cooking as the cook I'm always like
you're cooking you're cooking you're cooking and then all right it's time to eat and everyone was always like hey why
aren't you and I just you know you guys eat and then then I'll grab something you know what's funny is he says that and I never thought about it like that I
just always ate last because I thought it was the right thing to do
I just always it's almost like that servant's heart
and and and as a leader of other people you you you you want to serve them and
uh it's interesting that it it boils down to food but it's true I think I
think what you you have to start thinking about um in business it relates to your life
right a lot of things that you do in business is your life like you said it's a personality thing yeah and your if
your personality is uh that leadership personality it translates over into work
so the more that you can realize that hey this is what I'm doing in my
personal life is gonna trickle into my work life and you know vice versa you
start putting those together and it's you don't realize that you have you've had a leadership trait for a really long
time it just took you a long time in order to put it in play and then and then you start realizing
man I never really like listening to these books it's like I never realized that that's how I was so so everybody in
my household at home listening we just figured out why I'm like that
I guess never even done to me I always just took it as a um
just the right thing to do so so when you're when you're hiring and stuff and just look at Dwayne's cookouts right you
can learn a lot from someone just by watching them at the cookout who's going to be hanging over here waiting for all
these people to eat and then they'll go get their plate you know they're they're fine with taking the the few things that
are left over as long as everyone else is you know happy and they're they're
totally satisfied with that and yeah they're handing out that I'm like boom food's ready I'm gonna eat
yeah they're handing out beers to the guys and they're yeah you know they're yeah it's it's um
I think that uh you know one one part of this that has came up here at the end is
leadership uh I think you gotta evaluate if you're a leader or not if you're
going to be leading other people so um I think a cool thing to talk about just
for the last couple of minutes here is what books have you read
um that that kind of Point towards you you mentioned Simon sinek he's always
been a a you know the asked you know his his book about uh I
forget the title but it's basically uh what's the what's your why I wonder why
yeah um and then you know the uh seven habits of an effective
leader is a book that I've read and there's a lot of books that tie into it right it doesn't have to just be
specifically about leadership it's like it'd be about building um yourself uh into that person like the
was that 5am club make your bed my Miracle morning there's there's
there's so invest in yourself as the point right to invest in yourself and I
think if you if you find an author that you like and you listen to or you read
what you're gonna find is that they have authors that they like and they plug in their books so it's like oh let me write
that down so I can listen to that and and you'll you'll see that a lot right it's this person said this in this book
and I really relate to it in what I'm trying to teach you here so I just you can actually find one author and expand
on it just by listening to that one person yeah get around other people that are
growing and and have that energy of like building their business or building
themselves you know hang out with those kinds of people I've always found that environment really impacts the way
people uh grow and how they act and so you know get around good people which
means my Shameless plug back to getting to conventions and and doing what these
guys are doing right now I'll be flying out at 5 30 in the morning to join them and and when you really boil it down
right um that's why I think I like Simon cynic a lot is because it's not even
uh finding stuff about helping yourself it's he he relates it a lot too there
you know there's a lot of books on you know help yourself your help yourself books are right there's nothing about
help other people and that's what he kind of tries to tie it into it I want to help other people and I think that
really resonates with me because I mean just look at what we're doing right now we're not on here to of course it's you
know giving me information that's going to help myself it's going to help our business but at the same time I don't
want people to to have the same struggles as me or as you did it's like we want to help you guys out as well and
I think that's why I bring up Simon sinek a lot is because man it's if if
we're always just focused on how can I help myself how can I help myself we kind of lose sight of what we're really
here for and it's how can I help someone else you'll find you'll find that helping someone else is actually in turn
helping yourself anyway right because well it's like they say you're not fulfilling help enough other
people right it always comes back around I wish baby sister I think baby sister's on a
call over there actually but that's what she's been dealing with a lot lately is she's been talking to me about Karma and
how how Karma you know one thing over here is going to come full circle at some point so it's just you you have to
do it with the with the mindset of I don't I don't want anything from what I'm
giving you but eventually that karma is going to catch up yeah and
um for those out there listen like if you don't relate to the way Simon cynics and delivery is find
somebody that you like that speaks to you right um that's what there's there's a lot of people out there that have a lot of good
motivational uh books uh uh content there you go content they have put it's
got to resonate with you um and until you find that person or or that content
there's just gonna be floating with the Wind yeah well it boils down to
trying to improve yourself so get around the right people you know obviously you guys uh have
invested in yourself and invest in other people as well and at the
like the Apex for me or what what really makes me feel better about uh maybe a
bad day is is if I am able to help somebody get through a tough time it doesn't always mean money sometimes it
is sometimes I help with that but a lot of times it's talking to a friend about a difficult situation they may be going
through um or talking to an installer uh that works for is about a difficult situation
they're going through so be there for people uh but also like you said don't have the intent of getting something
back that's where you run the whole Mojo and I know we got onto a little bit of personal development here but at the end
of the day what is a leader it's somebody who invests in other in their in their their people and and thus
invest in themselves so like you got to be willing to do that and get yourself in the right environment again like get
into a convention and being around Dave and and and Tony and and Daniel and Jose
and all these guys eyes that are there there's a big group of people at the conventions
um there are some Mainstays there that you'll get to know and they can help you in your business they can help you
through a journey that you maybe uh fighting with as an installer most of us
if you specifically at CFI you know most of us installed to go to those shows so
you know if you're trying to grow an installation business Dave grew a massive install business we're very
modest about it too like he doesn't ever
not my place to say what it was but just know that yeah pretty large he's a smart guy
yeah so listen to those guys they're right there for your uh for your your
um you know conversation when you go to uh to the conventions and stuff so I know I
push out a lot and so do these guys so in the meeting someone said something
trying to I think it was josia might have said no it wasn't Josie it was
someone on the other bed but they said um you know I'm not going to teach you
everything I know right because it'll take forever I'm not just going to start explaining everything I know but if you
have a question 100 come and ask me and we'll dive into it so that's what you
have to do in in these situations it's you come here and you're like I need to know about this this person is going to
be there let me make time to ask them this question it's not a matter of going
and say hey teach me everything you know about business it's hey I'm having an issue with this one thing what can I do
about it and that that's that's how you have to approach it and be intentional yeah and
that's how I that really touches me because there
has been some people and it's you know focused more on the resilient flooring than anything but that's what they do is
they come up to us and it's like hey I'm really having an issue on welding an outside corner what kind of tips do you
have for me and it's it's like be intentional like that yeah
all right guys well we've ran to the end of the show I cannot wait to see you
guys tomorrow and uh if if you guys are out in the audience if you like the
content if you enjoy some of these conversations we have and bringing in different people you know every every
time we go to a show or the guys go to a show we we pull in we basically uh hard
recruit some people to come on screen with us and uh These Guys these guys uh
followed the the protocol from previous and just went and got people again uh I
remember we were a CFI the the the it was last year I believe and it's just oh
it was you guys and then Pruitt who's bringing people over hey don't talk to them because
yeah he likes to recruit everybody else but all right well um Orlando area or
anywhere near it we'd love to see you the Rosen Cheagle Creek
yep yep come join us um and uh I hope to see some of you guys
there and I will see you guys tomorrow around I think my flight lands about 8 30 so I'll see you shortly thereafter
sounds good we'll see you tomorrow morning all right guys we'll see you later
The Huddle - Episode 63 - Ballin Knows Best
In this week's episode of The Huddle, the guys are joined by Ken Ballin to discuss his new mobile & desktop app, Ballin Knows Best. Find Ken's web version of the app on ballinknowsbest.com
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family welcome to the
huddle we come at you every Tuesday 3 P.M Central to discuss maintaining
forward progress in your flooring career sorry I was stumbling over my own words with me as always is Jose and Daniel
Gonzalez have preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan and we have a special guest today Ken Ballin of Kim
Ballin installation but uh what's the name of your company skyro floors I knew
that sorry about that um but also Ken's got a really cool uh
platform coming up we're we're gonna have the privilege to get to know in this podcast
um so one thing I want to point out is everybody on here
um if you've tuned into the Huddle in previous episodes you know we're really focused on trying to help the installer
become the best version of themselves the best installation professional they can be can has a excellent program that
he's put together it's an application AI driven that uh is really there to do
just that to give installers the answers that they need to their you know installation problems
um he's building a community around it and um sounds like some really exciting
stuff so welcome Ken as well and uh so to to start off guys uh you
guys having a successful week everybody so far so guys so far very very busy week
well you can see Jose's as usual in his uh vehicle and
not so as uh usual Daniel's out on the side it looks like and uh away from home
base so uh we got Canada's workout room I'm in my office and these guys are out making
it happen so welcome everybody uh if you enjoy the show or if you've watched
previous episodes please consider giving us a like And subscribe on our YouTube channel or on our social channels same
with preferred flooring and Ken has a great following on uh online so if you
follow here and you don't follow him please go follow and kit follow Ken you'll always recognize his logo there
on his shirt I see from far away in every show just because of that shirt so uh so let's
kick it off with uh Kim's uh new Venture first off congrats dude it's a it sounds
awesome uh I love it when guys take these leaps of Faith to try to improve
things um so I guess out of the gate I'm gonna ask you to kind of uh just give us an
overview the name and the overarching idea of your your new venture
yeah sure so um the tech is called that one knows best and essentially what it
started out as was a a text line that you could text questions in uh from the
job site and get responses to you know in real time fairly quickly as well
depending on you know the complexity of the question um the idea is that Bowen knows best
essentially becomes a hub for installers with multiple resources aside from just
the text line that they can get questions answered um we have the website that's also live
and the app that's coming very soon we're working on this week and next week to get it you know out in its final form
but um so we'll have links to sponsors and their websites and their apps we want to
have uh training and Industry events on there we want to have a board of mentors
that can guide people if you're not really getting the question answer that you that you you know you want in this
manner you can contact one of our mentors and get the question answered directly from them and have a little more personal conversation uh sometimes
you can get a little generic response from your AI so you know it kind of gives you that more in person
um feeling and then at some point we'd like to also develop our own kind of forum for installers to interact and
network with each other as well that's great yeah so Community really is what you're
building and um supporting the installer now do I have this right that it's AI driven but
it's kind of person supported it's human supported so if somebody has a complicated question
or something that the AI may not have been uh fully trained on it's got some
people support on the back in the background so you may jump in or one of your mentors jump in and help answer a
question day I may not have provided uh the clearest answer on or something is
that is that accurate well yeah yeah yeah so um I see everything that comes
in all the questions that come in and I see the answers that go back out and if I see something that um you know isn't
really what I know they're looking for or I might do something a little differently I have the ability to jump
in myself to the conversation and you know make um other different suggestions or
modifications to the answer so that we can kind of steer them a little better than they might get initially well I
think I think that's an important um uh aspect of this we've talked about Ai
and actually uh chat GPT and stuff in previous episodes uh I believe it was
the technology episode or something one of the frustrations is you know you're not always going to get those
intricate questions answered sometimes the way you're you're needing the
information and so knowing that there's some some human support behind that is
um I think much needed and I think will go a long way with your user base
oh yeah definitely definitely I mean it's you kind of see you've got people like me people like me who are just
gonna want to talk to someone too like you know you you can read all the literature or and
whatever responses but if it's too monotone it's like you know what I just I feel like there's another way I
feel like like there's just one thing missing when you get a professional like you can on the phone and he says oh yeah
dude his is all go this is what you're missing you didn't know that of course I didn't I'm not kidding I've
given the number out to um to a bunch of people to kind of test out and use and see what they think and
you know I've seen the responses come in and every time that they've asked something that you know I wasn't really
you know behind I would jump in and say you know please be patient with us while I'm still learning
um but this may be a better solution for for your problem and
um you know everybody seems to get a kick out of it when they find out that it's actually me and not uh
AI yeah yeah
oh go ahead go ahead nope we earlier uh we had we had the laundry
of having a conversation prior to start um but it almost sounds like
this uh the program in itself is going to get smarter and progress the more it
gets used did I pick that up correctly yes absolutely so it does it is a guided
Tech what it does learn as it gets used so the more you know we put into it um the more we'll get out of it and the
sooner that we can get sponsors involved to get their um you know set up questions into the
tech that's going to develop it even further so we really you know the the main focus right now is obviously
promotion but it's also getting the sponsors on board because and that's going to be that's just gonna be a game
changer for developing the tech further and it can be anything for anyone from you know setting material manufacturers
tool manufacturers anybody that is involved in the industry I I I'd even like the trade organizations to you know
get involved and have you know that access because at the end of the day the
whole point of this is to benefit the installer you know when I first started
um I didn't have the luxury of working for somebody else I didn't have the luxury of having the flooring installers
of America Facebook group where I can go and ask questions I didn't have the old time installer yelling at me that you
know I was doing stuff wrong that I could ask um you know I just went about things on my own and read the directions and hoped
for the best and you know all right well yeah that's what it was
you're reading the directions and just going you know going with the flow and I
really think we have a lot of opportunity to a lot a lot of good for the new blood coming into the industry and you know making it an attractive
career choice for even younger kids that can get involved and see
um you know so I I really the potential of this is just Limitless
and I hope it gets I hope it gets the attention that it deserves and I hope that um you know it's as successful as I
know it can be so um what what gave you the idea how did
the idea and the uh balms knows best kind of come
uh to till I so the Ballon knows best was not my idea
actually that was not me um I had uh it's on a bit of a Gary
vaynerchuk fan and um for those that don't know garyvee you know go bomb on
social media he's awesome but uh yeah we've got a little bit of a potty mouth but um so he was yeah gear discretion
advice that um he was hot on the AI in the GPT
and everything like that so that kind of piqued my interest and as soon as you know I got into it
um I I just knew like you know this could be a game changer for our industry this has a lot of potential and you know
others in the industry said well it'll probably be like five ten years before it's usable for us
um but my partner on this project is actually a Jason Potts and he is big
he's another flooring installer but he is um into the tech and writing the tech
and doing websites and all this sort of cool stuff then he came to me and he
said Hey listen y'all I'm working on this thing uh what do you think about and I was like dude I'm in like I'm
sorry I didn't even need like I'm there like I've been I've been hot on it for a
while and he was just like I was like all right it's I guess it's time to make the jump and do something because you
know I always say doing something's better than nothing so even if it's something where you're at
least moving in the right direction well typically these kinds of things
um you know they take a little bit of time to get
the the wills churning on things um you know when we started go Carrera
it's it still takes a lot of Industry education because people are are scared
of technology in our industry honestly I've ran across it multiple multiple times uh where our installation
Community is a little bit technology adverse part of that is the average age
as we all know is in the 50s depending on which which uh report you read but
overall it's somewhere around 53 to 58 as the average age of the installation
Community now we have a lot of younger guys in um but the technology any technology
piece is a little bit um slow to adoption
um so patience is always required and and being willing to almost retrain
people in understanding the benefits and and you know like like Jose said he you
know he wants to pick up the phone and talk to somebody so giving them an outlet to still be able to talk to
somebody is an awesome teacher as well and having that mentorship side of things where if you need to
really get deeper into a question or you've got a project coming up you know I can see it working for an installer as
a project coming up maybe start going to handle some materials he hasn't been used to handling yet he or she uh and
preemptively talk to a mentor on your site that could help them pre-plan for a
project even I mean those kinds of things having that human support behind AI I think is super uh important and um
yeah I think that you have something really good going
um so to clarify right now you have the text line where they can text in the
answer or the question and and the answer will come across uh in any text
um client like any messenger client or is it all do you know if it
um you know iPhone has different ones I'm going to say as as you would send a
text message any other method a text message specifically um it will respond to any phone sending
a text message uh yeah yeah anything else like from the
website or the app would be you you know typing your question directly into the
website or the app in the you know submission and the website's live now website is live right now and the app is
going to be shortly uh what is the website for anybody
watching that's bowinowsbest.com awesome
it looks like it's still being worked on because the mentors aren't here are Joe Mo and bro
yeah yeah the questions submission field is
functional um everything out is kind of just a basic layout that we'll Sub in as we kind of uh adjust the design
don't appreciate you talking crap about their name Daniel yeah
be nice to those guys they're great installers
I'm chewing on this if I were talking again I'm chewing on this right now and I can see that this this this thing
being a huge benefit uh you know not only to season installers but to to new
installers who are doing their best to go out on their own they're just not comfortable right because they don't
they don't have the information uh that someone who's been in it for 15 20 years has they don't have that that
Social Capital to lean on and I I almost feel like this is going to
create more of a comfort level for any new installers going out on their own
and they're going to have information at their their fingertips per se um
and I just see this helping everybody like you said it wasn't there when you were when you started it wasn't there
when I started that's for sure or when Paul started you know and it was kind of you know just to spin it off you know
that you're going in and what if it was Regional what if you can have satellite companies if if they can't figure out
between a a person or AI what if they're a satellite company who might be
available to help troubleshoot our project they've needed uh on there oh absolutely you know it's just it just
opens up the lines of communication to anybody and um
you know the the focus my focus has always been the installer you know I'm
an installer my first concern is always the installers having access to the information knowing where they can go
for the uh for the information and the contacts that they need and you know there's still guys out there that don't
know what product reps are or that don't know that there's Tech Guys in these manufacturers and if we can have this
kind of centralized Hub that just brings everybody together it's just gonna bring
it's just gonna be a good thing for everybody involved
yeah and and we we talk about new guys but there's often uh if you get on the
forums or if you're just in the installation Community you'll see guys that maybe do hardwood that's looking to
get into ceramic tile they they have some really good hand skills and yeah but they're jumping into a new scope uh
in the flooring industry this served them very well they they know how to use the tooling uh they they understand the
overall application of multiple floorings um products but they're gonna start
installing themselves a new flooring product and something like this because
uh as previously discussed you you're you're not just doing ceramic tile because that's what you're kind of known
for but you're you're handling resilient you're handling ceramic you're handling
carpet I assume the major disciplines
oh really um of having the mentors because I can have
one of the mentors who focuses on carpet be accessible through the app so if you have questions about carpet you're going
to scroll down here and see that I'm talking to this person about carpet and I'm going to get that personal
experience that I couldn't find with the generic question
yeah yeah I see a lot of applications where um even Integrations like even with go
Carrera where we have a video chat feature where uh I could send you a text
message to open up your camera and you may have a problem out on site and need
my expertise as the project manager for a job or something on a layout question
or whatever and I can visually see on my computer your camera and take pictures
and make markups on the the video and those kinds of things we had the idea of
adding a link is the name of that feature link a pro and that's kind of
what you're doing is like giving them access for
um uh tech for a phone call and we may even be able to do some things where you
know they they actually have can on the other side looking they're showing you
the problem and you're making markups and saying hey dude if you move this part this far over it'll help your
layout tremensely or whatever the scenario but it kind of gives the mentor the eyes out in the field
so there's a lot of ways to improve and get better and I'm and obviously you're
thinking about a lot of this stuff so I just want to commend you for for taking
the um the leap I almost said having the Boop
to take the lead you know the I've made a few slip UPS on here we're not PG but
we try to keep it about PG-13 or so but you know having the the
um wherewithal to see the problem and then the courage to go out and start something it takes a lot
um I I know when I started go Carrera several years ago it you get a lot of
pushback anytime it's technology and P people are just uh skeptical of things
right and uh we started go career in 2018 our first real launch and it took a
it's taken years for people to start to get comfortable with the idea of of
utilizing technology to uh leverage themselves and and become the best
version of their themselves as an installer so those things
um you know I always say thank God for Facebook or no 50 year old would know how to use any application but uh but uh
yours is sounds very simple which is also a huge benefit get in you know get
in the application type in your question and get an answer yeah definitely I have a question
I'll go ahead Daniel we have Rollin on Facebook with a question I don't know if he missed the
beginning or if my signal is that greater or anything but he says where are the answers coming from is it from
an expert or found on the net and I think Ken already kind of answered that uh it's a it's a learning algorithm
right so the more you put into it the more the AI learns to spit you out an
answer but then that's where we all have the mentors in the their you know respective discipline to where if the
answer isn't really there you can have someone on hand to give an answer
yeah yeah no that's exactly it yeah um so the idea is that it it does have
that kind of harvesting ability that traditional uh GPT does but with the access to seeing the
inquiries come in as you know in real time uh we do have the access to jump in
and make modifications and answer them a little more personally than you know
might be needed well like you said with with sponsors having
so another answer Rollin is uh having the sponsors come in or manufacturers
come in they're going to be providing some of those questions and answers it sounds like or answers to the most
common questions probably to kick that AI engine rolling
um I would assume something like that is happening as you said that the manufacturers with or the sponsors in
general will have some input as well right yeah and we're constantly
um inputting questions ourselves that maybe are are a little less manufacturer
and vendor driven and a little more installer driven something that I might
ask on a job site that a manufacturer isn't going to be you know I might say
oh I don't know an easier way to manipulate this plank around a door jamb
or something like that uh whereas a manufacturer of a setting material isn't really going to be interested in that
sort of you know situation tips and tricks tips and tricks
so um I have a question about about uh how old would this uh be available to to
me like the general public how how does that work out is there a membership as you uh report is it completely free to
installers um we are funded
by us currently hopefully by sponsors pretty soon I know the feeling my friend
if anybody's interested in sponsoring please reach out um but um yeah so free for installer and
that was kind of my thing I wanted to be free for installers um we do have another uh facet of the kind of the bow
knows best company where we're doing um like kind of template websites for installers
who may not have websites um but that's everything aside from that is
completely free for installers so using the tech uh you know getting the information anything like that
completely free for installers um we will be fully funded by our
sponsors and that allows us to further develop the tech further promote the tech so that we can just grow it and get
bigger where do you see
I'll go ahead got another question on Facebook from Tanner James he's asking
if uh their support for a hardwood refinishing right now
um it has been answering um hardwood refinishing questions and
actually I have a very reputable hardwood refinisher in the industry
um that likes to mess with it quite a bit so he kind of gives it the run through he's like dude that was kind of impressive it's like it's not bad right
he was like yeah that's cool yeah yeah so I mean there are those things that I
don't personally like I'm not a refinisher so I lean on others to say and I'll you know take a screenshot of
the question and the answer and say hey what do you think about that and usually the answer that I get is something like
well that makes sense I said I might do it a different way but that is correct and that seems to be the consistent uh
results throughout at least the the inquiries that I don't have 100 of
background in so so it sounds like the hardwood refinishing has been uh you know worked
on and been trained a little bit so yeah sounds like yeah I mean the the issue not issue but
like something that um I kind of see come up from time to time though is that you know the AI Tech
takes information from these vendors who have their websites so if you're asking for a something a product from a certain
vendor and they've discontinued it but haven't taken it off their website
that seems to be a uh ongoing obstacle that uh
um but you know that and that's kind of the benefit of these vendors having sponsorships because you know they can
input these questions and then we can do another you know another setup fee you know a few years down the road when you
introduce a new product line and we can do a whole new set of questions that we're inputting into the tech and it's
just going to learn and keep you know kind of feeding off what we give it
it's pretty pretty awesome I I do have a question on the text line is it a phone
number that you provide for the text line and is that on your website or yeah
so I wanted to text text uh question right now what would I do uh you can
text 609 483-4975 and
um ironically today we're doing a little maintenance but typically speaking any other day would be fun
laughs it happens one more time give me and uh
our audience that number one more time yeah yeah I'm gonna write it down I'm gonna write it down this time
the text line from Valentine 609 -483
-4975 and if you just go to the website you
can actually there's a little bubble on there it says you know ask your question you just click on that and it'll open up
messages yeah and the uh if you don't want to memorize it
go ahead Daniel's breaking up a bit because he's
out uh working in the field but you're you're basically what he's saying is you
can do it just like we uh mentioned earlier Ken mentioned earlier is you can
go to the website and use the chat bot on the website to get the answer or you can text
609-483-4975 your question just save that and your phone is Baldwin knows
best and and when you're out on site if you got a question you know send a text you might get the man himself responding
to you so maybe so Ken where do you see
um you talked about having a a kind of a forum type deal where do you see all
this coming together and what what is uh success for calling uh Baldwin's no
Ballin knows best sorry what does success look like for that that's right you know I our our goal and
you know uh my partner Jason and I have taught we talk about this pretty regularly
um the goal is to have a centralized Hub a resource for installers across the industry regardless of what flooring
type you install whether it's one or everything um you have this resource that you can
go to for anything that you need whether it's a question answered whether it's uh
links to uh vendors websites and you just have access to all the information that none of us knew was out there when
we first started
for sure is this going to be uh available internationally or is it just in the US
for right now um I would love for it to be International
um we are working towards I shouldn't even say this maybe I should
no I will whatever um so we're it's just us we're it's just us talking bro yeah yeah
so there is a push for ballon to learn Spanish
um and depending on how we see that going will lead to other things down the
road um I really just want to focus on the English version that I can understand first whoa
thank you I appreciate that foreign yeah I could see a big need for uh
Spanish honestly I mean they're so there there's well and that was the large community one of the first things that
we had talked about but um yeah you know depending on the sex the success of it in the states in
English that will kind of dictate how we evolve it uh to learn Spanish in other languages and you know hopefully at some
point go International the cool thing about uh um the AI platform is that it it can interpret uh
English Spanish and Spanish to English 42. it might miss some here and there a
little bit but I mean for the most part if they have a question in Spanish I bet
you they can translate that and bring up the literature in English
um but again that's something like with refinishing or carpet where I copped or I take a screenshot and send it to an
installer that I know speaks Spanish and can say hey what do you think about this yeah again you know when I've done that
it's been okay that makes sense um I I might do things a little
differently but that that's an acceptable answer so it's you know it's it's kind of that the more we build the
network the more we bring on more mentors um and you know that's the perfect example of having somebody that speaks
Spanish as one of the mentors you know it just makes us more accessible to
um those that can use the yeah so it sure does
as the men took from the mentor side is this a are they going to be available at
certain times or is it a callback thing is that a schedule an event how do you
see that um playing out so from our initial conversation
um it would be essentially the same thing as you're sending me a message on the job site I answer it as soon as I
can I might not see it for a few minutes but I answer and give some sort of
you know comprehensive response um it might not be a phone call it could
be a text it could be you know a message on messenger um but I I would like to think that you
know we can kind of modify it as we go along and you know
kind of increase our reach based on our needs um so I mean I I see it as an all-access
and maybe if this person isn't available right now you know we've got two or three people in that category that can
help you if you're you know really in a jam um but if you've got you know your first
choice is Jose Gonzalez and you're gonna send him a message you're going to wait for his
response because you like what he has to say oh God just don't don't do it in Spanish
guys I need help with that don't let that don't let the last name pull you or the
first name oh yeah my wife's Hispanic and so I
always tell her just tell them you're Indian honey so
[Music] um well Ken I I've got just a a couple
of other maybe a little more technical questions uh on the tech itself
um when people do get a response that they you know that doesn't make sense to
them or doesn't maybe apply directly what's the next step for them do they
re-ask the question because you know in my experience using some of the AI tools
taking part of the answer part of the original question and reformatting it can get you a better answer is that is
that kind of the guidance or is it just what's your guidance there because surely
um there's there's some of that that might happen so just give the uh potential users a a little guideline on
maybe if they don't get the perfect answer the first time oh no absolutely so I mean well very
similar to all of us learning how to use standard search engines you know when that kind of first gained in popularity
using a search engine we had Yahoo we had Hotmail we had you know um ask Jeeves remember SG I think I'm
dating myself here um you had to type a question it had to be
a question like capital letter on the front question mark on the back and that's the format that that platform
accepted um so you know AI is no different you ask it questions and you can kind of see
you're like oh you know I'm going through Google and this didn't really give me the results that I'm looking for so let me kind of tweak this question a
little bit um so I asked a question about um what and this kind of makes me crazy
when people ask at this because it's not what it's meant for at all but um I said what thinset should I use for
setting well by 24 uh marble and it it spits out this answer with a
product that I'm like uh yes but no I said you know I would change a little
bit what type of um modified thimset from this
manufacturer should I use in this shower application if this is going to be in a
a heated floor like you just kind of make it a little more specific and you
can kind of tweak out the answer like okay that makes sense um but then there's things like I I was
setting a shower a few weeks back and um I'm using flow effects drains just for an example and I was drilling through
the subfloor to make the hole for the drain and I just couldn't for the life of me remember
um what the spec was on the size of the hole that I needed to drill and I didn't have um
I couldn't get on the net for the internet for some reason so I you know text it in to the bow knows best you
know what size hole do I need for a flow effect strange did it right at me four and a half inches sweet I'm good so like
you know sometimes you get that very direct very you know exactly what you're looking for and sometimes you need to
kind of stretch the question to kind of tweak out that answer that makes sense but you know it's it's like like other
AI you can tell when it's the question when it's the answer you need and then when it's just giving that generic kind
of you know response but um you know I said right now as of today if you text in I
see the question come in I see the answer go out and I can jump in myself and say you know hold on let's switch
that recommendation up and let's do this or hold on let me confirm with this person that I know has the answer and I
will get back to you personally with the answer to your question that's awesome you know I with those
questions the way you just ask that um I I kind of see this asking questions back like the thinset
question like it was gonna say you know like say if someone doesn't specify whether it's it's stone or porcelain
maybe it's going to pop up three questions what material are you installing where is it at is it out of
what substrate you know what I mean like I can and then they start clicking makes
those modifications but yeah you're absolutely right and uh it and it would help someone
who might not have all of the terminology down they understand the hand skills but they might not have the
terminology I could see that helping them actually get better at terminology as well because because now it's kind of
I don't want to say leading them right but it's it's honing in on exactly what they need
making them aware of something they weren't thinking of before you know like we didn't know that it mattered that the
substrate is foam instead of drywall yeah or you know it we did we didn't
know that it mattered that I had to change the trowel size for a glue down installation for resilient based on the
substrate that's that's all great information
there I'm gonna be doing messages thing every day I'm testing it out I'm gonna test it
out I'm gonna ask the dumbest questions just so that way you can have some kind of algorithm oh that's probably welcomed
no I'm definitely absolutely and specifically when it gets it wrong send me a screenshot because I would love to
check it out and make that modification okay that's kind of the whole point
though you know as we it it takes it takes the community right so if we're
all working together to develop this technology we're only making it better for those that are coming in you know to
use it and you know a very smart lady instead you know it's our responsibility to hold the door for those coming in
behind us and you know I just that's kind of a just a reoccurring
thought in me every day you know what so yeah it is too like any any installers any
seasoned vets out there listening right now and you guys have access to that I think that uh uh it would probably help
tremendously for for anyone just to get on and add some some basic general questions so that way you can start
creating a database so that way you can start spitting out better answers and and more in-depth answers
um like you said it takes a village I like that if we can get it to be less of a less of
a harvester of information and more of a provider of information I mean that's the goal right there
I can't wait for you to celebrate that Tipping Point me too brother me too
so if you're if you guys are uh Curious on anything I mean using again I'm going
to repeat the number a couple more times before this is over because just using this thing is going to make it better
I've I've messed with AI quite a bit and the the key is community usage
um I've got probably a hundred different uh Bots training for different reasons
whether it's you know writing out a email letter or different use cases for
just your simple jet chat GPT but what what is key is the more information it's
fed the more it learns and learns upon it's your guys's input as well so using
this is a benefit to everybody that's the bottom line right I mean so again
the phone number to text this is the easiest way to get involved right now pull out your phone type in
609-483-47-4975 knows best and start using it and and
text in your your questions uh you'll get some from me for sure so
and the name of the app is going to be the same as the website just battling those best yep that one knows best we're
gonna keep it simple and will this be down uh available in the App Stores or will it be a web uh
web application um no it will be now I'm gonna put my
foot in my mouth no it is available for uh both Android and Apple users in the
apps awesome fingers crossed all right
fingers crossed it takes a little bit of time guys so support Cannon is in his Venture here he's just uh you know
really came up with a unique approach to helping uh the multitude of installers
that you just can't provide from a Facebook group even or a um you know and
you've done good with your Facebook group and and monitor being the moderator of those and and uh your
social presence and and and videos and stuff but it this is giving you the
information when you need it and not you putting content out and then and then someone finds the content so it's a
different model it's it's almost like on demand and that's kind of where the world's moving I mean you gotta freaking
have every streaming platform to watch your movies anymore you can't just uh have good old cable television so you
know get with the times start using this I I think it's worthwhile for any of our
listeners anybody um you know that's that's engaged with us over the years to help to Foster that
that um that technology in a way that it it becomes so user just like Ken said NADA
not a harvester of information but a provider of information and uh you guys
uh all of us have a a role in that and if we can do that then men how many
people can you help in there in a tough time I I installed since I got out of high school and I know what it's like to
be absolutely freaking frustrated at a point where you don't know what the next
step is um and you don't know what the answer to the you don't have an answer or a
solution to the problem and you with a very heavy heart and very uh fearful
um approach go ahead and do it the best you know how and often it's not the right way and so this can circumvent a
lot of those scenarios um if you've been installing any time you've been there I'm sure where you
just didn't know what to do and you did your best it didn't work out and I've had failures uh on my own stuff
especially really early on before I really got all the training certifications
um I would encourage everybody can CFI certified uh you know
I'm Nora and more on the resident or resilient side of the world that's what
I really loved when I was installing these guys are you know Jose and Daniel are both uh heavily certified in the
different resilience and floor prep so I think all of us on this show on this podcast would also uh really encourage
you guys to get to the different conventions get to CFI convention fcica
CFI joint convention is going on at the uh latter part of this month down in
Orlando uh next week you can look that up next week it is look how fast it
comes so if you can make it get down there um and get certified guys go to get CFI
certified or if your things tile give it the ctef and and get your CTI
certification or if you're really good go for the ACT we really like to see
guys engage themselves in education what Ken's doing is supporting that uh
through his platform and he's also given that Early Education that nothing is
going to completely supplement your ability to go put your hands on the product and get certified so I I I would
still I think everybody on this uh call would would support that like let's
continue to get better as an industry um and what you are doing sir is really awesome I think it's a got a great use
case uh we'll certainly support it uh you and I can have some offline conversations on how maybe we can help
you out a little bit maybe show you some pitfalls that we ran through since 2018 and uh and uh and so anything we can do
to support you and help
you guys I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but and is taller than Daniel I just want
everyone to know that well
Daniel I'm still on the far right side of the frame of the picture then right
it's all good my friend you're my buddy closed
good deal uh any closing thoughts uh ideas uh or input here from you can
um that that may help the users any further with kind of how you're going are you keeping uh a blog or anything
like that to keep your community updated or are you sharing that on your Facebook group like how can they stay engaged
with your new videos so they kind of know the developments yeah yeah so I've
really tried to keep it off the Facebook groups I I don't like
I I don't want to kind of abuse that facet of my
um social media presence does that make sense I don't know um so um but anybody you know and I
always to everybody that I tell in the Facebook groups you know is always welcome to message me text me call me
whatever my phone number's plastered all over the Internet um I will start doing like
um I I've been on the fence with it because I'm not
overly um committed to putting my face on
camera contrary to popular popular belief but I was going to start taking the
inquiries and doing like a short video where I oh so and so asked this question and this is my answer and I'll put it on
my Tick Tock and my Instagram stories and then kind of do that sort of I don't want to just
Spam my profiles and spam the groups with it I I just I want people to come
to us uh as opposed to me spamming everyone
um well I know when they take a Blog maybe a Blog on your website that just
kind of gives the updates hey this is now live or this is now live or something yeah yeah and I'll I'll probably do
things like that on my social media um but yeah you know the goal right now
is two things it's to get people to use it and know about it and then to get the
sponsors involved so that you know we can really start teaching the tech and you know having the ability to uh use
that sponsorship to really promote and teach the tech further awesome
all right inputs yeah you know what I think um I do have
a little bit input I think once everyone starts getting their their hands in the pot so to speak
um I don't think you're gonna need to worry about social media blasting it I
think it's going to be a quick Pace yeah you know copy and paste for for people and they're gonna say go here and I
think it's going to take off another thing too is this potential sponsorship it starts getting Bleak let me know we
can start a pop can dry for you bro um we'll get it going
[Music] laughs
oh man Daniel you got anything uh any uh insights or input here
no I just look forward to using it and seeing what it spits us off back at me is there going to be uh
anything where like you can have someone like us give it information
that it can spit out oh yeah absolutely like if there's and
so and actually that's that's a great Point um yeah if you guys and it had
information specific to like a category through the installation absolutely send
me the questions and answers and we can plug them in like that that stuff for installers is gold
so if anybody on the installation side wants to help contribute to that
um that is obviously of we're not going to charge people to do that that's just that's benefiting the community
so anything from the resilience side from the carpet side from the hardwood anything epoxy whatever sort of anything
that covers the floor like we will gladly take the questions and answers to put into the tech absolutely that's
awesome awesome all right well guys uh we're gonna wrap
this thing up Ken thanks again for coming on and telling us about Allen knows best
um and uh you know kind of giving us a rundown I hope everybody stands that your input and and working
with the technology uh I do want to point out what you said it's kind of like Googling something if you don't get
the the results you wanted in the first Google search you Google search again so
yeah tweak it a little bit so so uh remember to do that use the technology
use that I'm going to save the phone number one more time
609-483-4975 and text in your questions let's see if we can uh train this thing
together and and help Ken and his mission to improve the installer's life so with that uh I want to say thank you
thank you guys as always for being a staple and the the pillars of the Huddle
and uh we'll catch you guys next week on site
even right oh yeah we'll see you guys we'll be there we'll be there Monday
you'll be there Monday I think I had to look at my flight I can't remember if I get there Tuesday or Wednesday
um it's kind of a whirlwind uh because I have a show directly after that as well
that I gotta uh I've got to go to so it's like Bing Bang from from here
through October is going to be pretty crazy but um Ken if we see you at a show uh
I look forward to you know catching up and seeing how how it's going and the progress man so absolutely um and we'll
we'll have you back on to give us an update here in the in the near future as well so no we appreciate it again thank
you guys so much for having me thank you all right guys I love it I love this idea it was an all it was an
awesome huddle I loved it and uh again if you guys like what you uh have uh the
content of this episode or any other episodes most of this uh huddle most of
our huddle episodes are really geared in improving the installer's lifestyle and giving them the tools whether it's
Financial tools or information or bringing on great people I can to uh you
know improve your installation career uh please again consider giving us a like a
subscribe comment and reach out to us on our social channels and from there we
will see you guys next week have a good one everyone see you all right see you Bellas
The Huddle - Episode 62 - Managing Cash Flow
This week the guys discuss starting your business and managing your cash flow, from what needs to be set back for tax needs to what you need to use to launch your business forward
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
what's up flooring family welcome to the Huddle we come back to you every Tuesday at three o'clock
Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career
you like what you hear here if you've uh enjoyed any of the episodes please consider giving us a like or subscribe
in our YouTube channel uh like And subscribe preferred floorings
uh social networks whether it's Facebook or Instagram the guys are great on there
and uh same with go career so I missed everybody last week thank you
guys for jumping in there and and uh covering the show I appreciate that yeah
hopefully we did okay well I haven't gotten to look at the whole thing but I know you guys so you
you covered just fine so this week um
we're gonna be talking about cash flow and cash flow management uh starting
with the uh installation professional
one of the you know ways we got started I think you know
preferred flooring got started installing so did I and so
managing that early cash flow was key to eventually opening up a full-service
shop um so I just thought I'd start with you guys give us a little bit
of a you know maybe experience on how you guys manage cash flow early on some of
the the the great things we did are some of the maybe mistakes you made and and uh
then I'll I'll follow up because we have a very similar path to starting our flooring service you know the full
service flooring company I think in the beginning it was a
we had to learn as we want right in the beginning it was just very hard so you know labor only and you're
you don't factor in a lot of like consumables and everything else and cash flow was very tight to say the least
um starting out I think um we structured our pay base off of a
salary so that way that way we weren't just willy-nilly
with the bank account um that was I mean we're still salary um to this day because of it because it
worked um but in the beginning Castle was a lot different we didn't have
whatever we didn't have we had to go buy and we didn't have the um
the credit line yet unless we were using our own so
um that was pretty difficult and challenging in the beginning but the with the little bit that we paid
ourselves on the salary and then I think we waited about a year before we hired our first employee so we can build up a
cash flow um so that way we didn't have to worry about not being able to pay someone uh
that was a very long year um and you'll learn
you learn that it's not very hard to live without a lot of things essentially like what he just said like
short form is stay broke I like it I'll I'll uh
excuse me hit them I had a very similar thing when I
started me and my partner that uh started the company we both
it's a very low salaries and I tried to build up cash uh one of the key I think
um important things was we took work from different segments
so we were labor only but sometimes we a lot of times we'd work for a shop
because we get paid every week and then sometimes we'd work for another two a designer who would pay us when the
job was done and then sometimes it would work you know started working with the
general contractor who'd pay us every you know in 30 or 60 days we didn't jump right into
the you know working with the GC on big construction jobs we'd have never made
it we also did just put the money in the bank and take whatever was left over
um so I think that was very wise I still take a salary myself after 20 years so
um the the key of the of staying broke as you said
Daniel is like that that's what we did too it's not an easy road but
uh ultimately if your goal is to you know I've seen it I've seen it happen the
other way I've seen plenty of guys uh do work and then they get in real trouble because they either try to do
you know non-cash flowing projects meaning working with the GC or something
like that too early because of GDC because they're really good so the GC is like hey I want you to
do my job and they say okay and then they they do another project for a
general contractor and they don't get paid forever and they were not prepared for that so I think having a good mix of
projects is key too because you guys kind of mix that around as well as well as residential I think that's another
one where you can get that that deposit get that money flowing into that kind of thing did you guys do that
too yeah I think we got pretty lucky a lot of the the places that we started working for right away were you know
returning an invoice and within within seven days we were we were getting paid um if it was larger projects uh you know
that payment schedule would be slightly extended but um for the most part I was very
transparent with everyone and so was Daniel like hey you guys we're starting out like we have zero dollars uh we
invest in everything we had uh when we were let go and we invested a little bit that was borrowed
um and they were like you need to check just let us know if you need a check just let us know we didn't abuse that we
didn't even we didn't even ask for that it was just offered so you know to to go
back to where you said uh the contractors where you're waiting 30 60 90 days um we were fortunate to not be in that
scenario uh right um and you're right um
had that been an audition I don't know if we would have went down that road because of the length of time
um the cash flow everything that was coming in was was going right back into it right away like we hadn't we had nothing
you know yeah you had to buy equipment almost immediately yeah that's what we found and a big benefit of paying
yourself a salary as well just as a side note is uh oh you use some personal
experience here with my my father who has worked for herself for many many I mean for probably 30 40 years he worked
for himself as a painter he never paid himself a salary
uh so the only Social Security he has today is what he earned the first 10 years of
working as a union and uh painter so
you know today his his social security income is like 600 bucks a month because
he never paid in he didn't W you know pay himself a salary a W-2 salary
position he just paid his expenses and kept what's left so there's another
benefit of like doing that um I gotta I just hope that it's actually
going to be there when I when I turned 65 years ago yeah but the point here is had he paid
himself a W-2 and and paid into his Social Security way back then he'd be in a
different position today and um you know you can't go back but my
advice to any installer is if you're even even if you are just an installer
and you got a couple of guys working for you pay yourself a salary let your bank
account grow uh it'll come in handy on a rainy day you'll have a little bit of money to invest in things that you may
want to invest in whether that's equipment or um you know expanding your business but
living off of what's left will get you um I've seen him get a lot of guys in
trouble you know just and properly part of that is probably uh
the next topic uh under this is like
not just um how do I say this a lot of installers
who get started and they live off of the the proceeds
tend to live off all the proceeds so you never budget your personal life because
of it you know you just have this money coming in and then properly tracking
expenses doesn't happen as much then you know kind of I guess the bottom line is
run it like a business if you're an installer run your installation business like a business
you know we had a conversation like that in the Mastermind group where Kyle um about that um it's it's hard to
track your it's hard to track any project and get
your your daily operating costs if you aren't on a set pay schedule right like
if you're just starting out and you're going through your bank account and everything that gets deposit you're
treating it like a flow through to you um you don't really know where to make adjustments financially on some of your
pricing on what am I spending on supplies for this type of work or this week or this month I think that's one of
the biggest things when we started that's what we did is you had to separate your business income from your
personal income like yeah just because the business isn't making all this money doesn't mean
I'm making all this money even though we're technically a pass-through entity so
the the IRS treats it like that but you still have to separate that based on all
right this is what I want to do in business this is how I can get there this is my own personal over here and
like I said it was it wasn't a mindset of stay broke it was it's what we had to do in order to move
forward like in order to see the vision transpire it's like we're only going to
pay ourselves this much and then constantly reinvest into the business and that's what we did for years so
that's what we're still doing right now and and you can also helped you on taxes because when you're paying yourself a
weekly uh salary you're paying in taxes what we did
um yeah and I still do to this day is i max out my taxes like I want them to
take as much out of my weekly income my my salary and then I knew what I needed
to bring home to make do early on and that's what I paid myself plus I made sure I paid enough to cover
the taxes I wanted to pay as much into taxes because it is a pass-through um
tax structure if you're say an S corp or even an LLC
the profit and the burden of that profit flows through to you but like he said
have a separate bank account for your company and then pay yourself a weekly salary into your into your uh just like
you would any employee right into your personal account but you're paying those weekly taxes and it's it's easier to
stay up on the taxes early on um that way you don't have this huge tax bill at the end of the year if you just
have one account and you pay everything out of it and you just keep all the extra you better be making some
quarterly tax payments but one way to do that almost automatically is max out
your tax um amount that you pay in on a weekly basis from
from your salary and then um you know at the end of the year when your income is all calculated for taxes
you've you've paid a pretty fair sum in from your personal income and me and my
partner when we first started I'd obviously I bought him out no three but from 99 to 2003
we both just took salaries and it helped us stay up on our taxes kept our tax
program down at the end of the year that kind of thing so there's a lot of benefits to doing it that way
yeah and we um in full disclosure everyone like I learned this the hard
way from previous Ventures right and that's why when when Daniel and I
partnered up and we decided to start our preferred that it had to be structured right away the other way didn't it
didn't didn't work I mean it worked for as long as there was there were funds in the bank but as soon as
you get under a certain dollar amount and you have X amount employees it doesn't work anymore you're scrambling
you're in scramble mode everything's separated right so your employees your uh wages your wages then
then uh everything else on top of that your vehicle the maintenance and starting out nobody goes out and buys a
brand new vehicle right so you're gonna buy a used vehicle you got to figure you're gonna spend 500 a month in
maintenance on that on top of fuel and whatever else um I mean you're gonna be spending a
truck payment a band payment anyway and maintenance on an old vehicle so
learn that one as well yeah and even if you do go get a new one you gotta try you got a bigger vehicle
payment so I mean at the end of the day having those separated is wise and
um like I said there's that added benefit of having us with taxes automatically coming out of your account
or out of your check on a weekly basis and then you know frankly it it helps
you to not overspend on a personal level uh you know sometimes you're gonna have
some down weeks when you're installation only and
it's nice to have that extra money in the bank where your salary still comes through each week
just like it has and if you live within those means then you know you can make it through uh you
know a period of time without actually working and you may be out you know
scrambling for work but there are slow times I mean it's not been around for a while but it does happen I remember
installing and out trying to drum up work and it may have a week off but I
still got my salary because we put the money in the bank yep I remember planning for it too I
remember the lulls like right before Thanksgiving and then after Christmas that was about where I was at so
um and then it always a little bit of a little right before we called School season started
um and you know it just it's like the tide was just pulling itself back for a second but it was gonna come back strong
and you gotta be ready that's a good analogy Jeremy's commented
on Facebook he says the one of the reasons why he hasn't jumped in full time on his own is not being able to have the steady cash flow
about being a W-2 employee he's able to invest in 401k and move up the ladder to
get off his knees in a reasonable amount of time because I think he just you see too many guys out there that like he says they're
one-man cruise and you know they're 60 years old right now and it's because they didn't take the
time to plan things out when they were younger kind of like you said your dad that's that's all he did was you know when he
was in the union and then he has really nothing after that it's a lot of these guys take a look at that bank account
and I mean don't get me wrong a lot of us come from you know pretty much nothing so it's
when you see it start seeing that that amount of money rolling in it's hard to to just look the other way and keep it
into that account but it's it's all mindset right it's uh where do you want to go uh delayed gratification
where do you want to go and and what do you have to do in order to get there and a lot of these guys can't see past the
weekend you know we see guys that are you know on Saturday they're out at the casino and then on Monday they're
complaining because they can't work because their vehicle is broke down and they don't have no money to fix it
yeah I can't count how many times I've had that you know talk with an installer who doesn't have
gas money on Monday or Tuesday or whatever and can't get to the job site I'm like dude you just got
paid six grand last week you know how in the world and a lot of times it's
just they it's so much easier to indulge in the
things where you would have discretion when you just
take what's left over if that's how you're gonna operate your busy business and you got three thousand
dollars left over after a six thousand dollar a week and you pay everybody and you go out you had three grand in your
mind well I paid myself 600 bucks for the first four years that's what I paid myself on a salary and we didn't we
didn't move that for four years neither one of us so you know I it can be tough but it is
delayed gratification if you're wanting to build a business even a successful installation business
you got to have some money put aside for training your guys for for uh training
yourself for getting to Convention all those things go into this big bucket and
you're just a W-2 coming out of that bucket and you let that bucket grow and I know what you're saying I mean there
was weeks we that me and my helper would do six thousand dollars seven thousand dollars worth of work I get paid 600
that bank or our business banking account was going up and up and up and I'm still just kind of scrounging by
personally but if you really want to grow a business or grow a a nasty vegan maybe
you don't want to be a full service but you don't want to be living week to week forever grow that Nest Egg big enough to
where you maybe you can increase your salary uh in in a couple of years and
then that Nest they can continue to grow where you're not always dependent
I think what I did not want to do and the reason I was just super fine with taking the salaries I did not want to
have to starve the next week I'd learn how to live on 600 bucks so that was
gonna work and then I didn't want to have this time frame where my family had to go down
if you do it that way we didn't ever have to go back in lifestyle it was a a you know lavish
lifestyle but it was the lifestyle we were living at that time we didn't have to go backwards because we were always getting that check because that that
Nest Egg was growing so on down weeks or slow weeks I was still getting paid even if I only
created a thousand bucks that week I still got my normal payment and I was
you know what I'm saying it's like treating yourself like a good employee is the best I think that's the best when
you first start you create a routine and it does get easier it gets it gets way easier once you create that
routine um and I just don't understand
how back when I was younger how I didn't see that and the need for that so and
then that's one thing too I think Daniel made me think about it when he earlier is when
there is no education classes out there everybody's worried about hand skills and installation but there is no financial management classes out there
for a young entrepreneur who can go get a 1099 a DBA or LLC right they don't
have any of that you got to do all that that's why we're here yeah and and that's the thing though is they do have
those classes it's just you have to go look for them yeah they're not readily available like oh yeah and here's here's
a booklet if you're starting a DBA and you have a business license here's a booklet from your county and that would
be that's the thing it's it's like uh the FCF and
and you know we're trying to recruit more installers but recruiting new installers doesn't
necessarily mean we're recruiting good business people like they keep on
pushing them into you can make this much money and work to Be Your Own Boss and all this but they
don't push them to where it's like go come through our program and then go
work for this company for x amount of years before you do this it's it's
always uh that that that mindset or that statement where
it's like You Can Be Your Own Boss and I mean you you know as well as we do
being the boss is not always the the greatest thing in the world it's uh yeah sometimes
yeah it's like it it would be so much easier if we weren't
but at the same time if we weren't in the positions that we are now we
wouldn't have this platform here talking to other guys that needed the help yeah I I mean I can't say enough that
you know we've touched on so many subjects that if you are starting out as
an installer and you're thinking about or you're an established installer and you're thinking about like taking the
next step in your in your uh in your career or your business
you know Ford progress does means like wherever you're at right now you can move forward you can go you can
go but you can get bigger better or just better but you know what if we shot a 16
plus episodes and a lot of them have to do with how you run a small installation
company and how you can turn that into like I could have been extremely
successful from a monetary standpoint without going for a service because I
did pay myself a salary and I did create a lot of I did a good installs and I I
attracted good installers me and one other crew um we really could have had a very good
uh lifestyle um you know I wanted to grow a full certain
grow into a full service company there was a big need in my area and
um so that's what I wanted but you can run a successful installation only company as well it's just
having some discipline with your money uh you know we're talking about cash flows so you've got to consider making
good business deals on the front side like getting terms that fit your
business model playing collecting well and then doing good work I think those are all kind of
I hope understood you have to be a good quality work you gotta collect your money and you got to do the work that
best serves your business but at the end of the day man you can be you you can go
any direction in your once you have the hand skills and the business mindset that that of discipline
I see it all the time the biggest problem that that plagues the
installation industry is guys just living off of what they make and not having discipline around their money
I know a guy that you know he does real well from how much he pulls
and you know instead of he replaced his old truck within Mercedes-Benz you know
I think that kind of spoke a lot to what where his mind was I mean
could have went out and got a really nice uh van that would better serve your
business um you know I don't think I drove a car for I don't I still don't drive a car I
probably haven't drove a car in 20 plus years but I didn't drive a non-installation vehicle for almost 10
years like my kids I'd take out the scenes and I'd ratchet I'd literally put
the seat back in so that I could put my car my kids car seat in my van I can't imagine not driving a work vehicle like
something that I can throw my tools and material I can't I just I can't like
there's a need for it what happens you know yeah I don't know I remember driving my
my S10 across the country with a 35 foot roll of rolling and from Over the cab
and it scratched everything up all right yeah yeah
I think uh another piece of this um cash flow portion is also tracking
your helpers labor and making sure whether it's a helper or other installers that work for your install
company making sure that you know they're being properly trained and they
even care about the quality they're putting in and their production giving
goals I know we talked about that in the past about giving your installers goals
um you know when I was just me and another guy uh I had a helper he had a helper I mean
we both set goals on a weekly basis on what we were going to try and get done
on a bigger job and sometimes it was a daily goal if it was a you know smaller
project you just kind of got to get together and um kind of track that labor and know
where your expenses are coming from because labor and equipment
gas all that stuff it adds up it does like so
um when you first started how were you tracking um for your your partner and the helpers like I I've always done like
time cards we used to do handwritten time card track hours uh some people do square footage or just buy the job or by
the day um what are some other ways for people starting out uh to try that because it
has a lot to do with the two you got to be able to track what they're installing how much how much they're installing or
if you're by the hour like is there the rate match what's going down
yeah we always did it by the hour and um the lead guy my other lead guy he got a
salary and then a bonus on whatever got that whatever he beat so that was the
purpose of the goals so say you got a thousand dollar job just as an example and it's gonna go for a week and
as an example he gets paid 500 bucks and his helper gets paid 200 bucks and
there's a thousand dollars of money in that budget for the labor portion
plus a plus a profit to the company well we just bonus him out the difference
so it always encouraged them to work um but they weren't working harder for
nothing more um it wasn't really that unique of a setup it was just how we chose uh
looking back I probably would have done a little different but that's how we did it and uh it worked out pretty well I
mean he my my other installer performed well he worked hard and he was he was
there uh you gotta give him go give employees and he was an employee so
um But You Gotta Give those guys a reason to get up and go to work
and we just could not afford a big big you know huge hourly rate at the end of the day some of the jobs
didn't have any money at the end of at the end of the wages
but again we were trying to set precedents that
when we have good jobs that pay out well then we're we're gonna you can make more
money but at the end of the day you need to be budgeting your life from what you
know you're gonna make foreign so what about um Financial establishment
or would you you know guys who you still use a shoebox I mean
well it's not even a financial establishment that's a bookkeeping software
yeah so that he says very helpful to track your expenses but
back then we didn't have all the fancy technology so it was literally uh turned
in an expense report each week from each crew every every gas receipt
every everything if they're out of town food receipts and hotel receipts and all that
came through and then my partner would put that into QuickBooks that's what we used at the time and this was before
QuickBooks went online um so this was just a piece of software on a computer at the time and
you know we we track all the expenses including labor and then what was left
over was available to be bonused to the other installer and I never bonus myself
that was the sacrifice I made there was no bonus to myself all my extra went
stayed in the bank account for the company better safe than sorry yep we get it
yeah I mean we were used to getting to eating ramen noodles I just didn't want to have to go down to like you know
canned beans hey there's nothing wrong with canned beans
uh I'm sure you have family or friends that'll support you and you know I'm not
too proud to say that Daniel and I did go to we counted on family for some food sometimes
um and it helped not not saying like hey can you feed me on Wednesdays and Fridays it was uh what
y'all doing today come over
no we lost the audio on you
just gotta turn on your headphones or your mic on your headphones
[Laughter] thanks there it goes
is it good yeah yeah I'm back okay sorry about that I don't know if I touched
something or when I when I adjust to them but
I guess um you know you don't have to start that way do you I mean you don't not everybody has to start struggling uh if
you if you've established yourself uh working by by the hour for or by the day
or whatever but as an employee for a company you've got a good savings stopped away and maybe uh some assets
not the way that you can get a loan against you can kind of jump in and Skip some of
these other steps we're talking about I mean we're not saying everybody has to go through the ramen noodle phase so to
speak no but when we started like both of our credit scores were
not the greatest and we you know we
we were already struggling and it was just not an ideal situation
and we just did what we had to do in order to make that situation better
yeah like if like you said if you were
already planning on doing something like that for years and now you feel like you have the the finances to to pull that
trigger and you're comfortable yeah you're in a way better spot and that's a lot smarter um and way ahead I encourage I mean to
plan it one thing that you guys and I have in common as well is we didn't plan it I mean you guys
it was kind of a very similar scenario I think I I got
noticed that we the company I was working for was getting ready to get bought out like the fourth time and the
new ownership group was one of the existing PMS that worked there that did not like me at all
um and she she she's a friend of mine today but back then she was she did not
like me at all and I knew my my writing was on the wall I was I was getting booted as soon as she took over so I
just I had to quit and go make money right away you know so I didn't have a lot of time
planning on it I just figured hey I can do I can do at least as good as that
company was doing which was not that good and this new ownership group coming in you know promised the world just like
the previous one did things are going to be better um and when I say better I'm not saying
like you know getting paid more I'm talking about having checks that would clear the bank account oh yeah you know
one time I held five checks that did not clear and you want to talk about Speedy
Gonzalez on the way to the bank every when I'd get the tip who from the PM
they ended up being my partner he tipped me when he knew a check came in and then
I could jump in my car and run to the bank see how many of those checks I could get cash and uh
you know that just getting checks that would clear would have been an improvement back then
the new ownership group when they came in was promising things were going to be different
I just didn't think I was going to be there anyway so I decided to go out on my own and when
when you do that it's kind of last minute I'm in the same position either I didn't have the best
credit at the time I was young I was only 22 when I started the company so I
didn't have it wasn't that I didn't have good credit or bad credit I just didn't
have any credit no credit you know I had one car loan that I was paying ridiculous percentage on because I
didn't have any credit and um so there's a hard road but you just all I'm doing all this the purpose of
this uh discussion is is to let you know that one other people have went through
it two there are brighter days if you can be disciplined with your money and I can
tell you right now there's for every one of the stories like yours or ours there's 50 stories of the guy that lives
off his business a hundred percent and uses all the funds and never has a
rainy day doesn't pay his taxes and ends up working for somebody
out of necessity not out of choice they have to work somewhere because the IRS is after them and they need to get
garnished I mean I know those guys so do we and you're right we are
definitely outnumbered by those guys so the reason they go W-2 is the fact is is
they give W2 then the government can only garnish their wages that they don't go take their home and
their cars and you know everything you stay on 1099 and the government if you
go to back taxes they come to start taking itself
so cash flow is important early on I mean
that's the bottom line to this is collect your money do good work make sure you're installing good product so
you don't have failed projects early on one thing that'll kill you as an installer is doing poor hook early on
it'll just it'll just kill you happen to go back and and rework or redo
stuff I'm not saying we were perfect in that regard that we had very few and far between of going back and having having
problems when I was installing a lot and then if you can get a good mix
of jobs between homeowners you know maybe a little longer term stuff like
with with your interior designers or something like that and then working for a shop that could give you that weekly
pay the having a good mix there kept our cash flow a lot better if I've been just
DC Universe on there's no way in hell I would have made it and same with if I I
had a Interior Design Group and they're the ones who really kind of helped us uh
see that we were going to have business as a company and uh they were a high-end
uh interior designer but they didn't pay they collected from the client and they
paid us and they didn't pay us every week it was when the job was done and if it was a two or three week project we
had to wait two or three weeks for the for the money but we had all the expenses all the gas
all the labor all the car payments and everything you're muted again
I had to be on my phone because I wasn't smart enough to charge my laptop beforehand
so you know even if I would have done only the interior designers work it would not
have worked out it wouldn't have made it because I couldn't have always been spanning those three weeks we had to
have a good mix of those three working for a shop we got paid every single week and that helped a lot
um of course they didn't like it when we started working with GCS and then we lost that but that's a natural
masturation of like you know growing your business I think yeah so so
good advice is to make sure that you don't have all your
eggs in one basket that you do have a mix of pay schedules understand those pay schedules and stick to turning in
the invoices if needed right because if you don't if you missed that pay period that's your fault not theirs
um don't over extend your finances on labor
um material like sometimes we did that too a couple times where we weren't into material sales but we
would buy material with money that we didn't really have and then we'd be waiting it's like then think that one through
um track employees contractors wages will
help um and have separate bank accounts yeah
yeah that that's probably the first one have a business account and have your personal account so don't live out of
your business account and start working on your business credit on day one
yeah yeah well this is about cash flow but that's a very important piece too right
like if we didn't build credit and get to a point where we said all right we either use it or we don't right it was
all right let's use it so that way we're not using what we have because I know that what we have down the road is going
to pay for that you know right right away a lot of the cash flow like when we were
I mean we we were running 12 installers at one point and that stuff starts
adding up especially when you're waiting for checks and it's like uh all right let's get
this line of credit going and then you talk to them and they're like all right we'll give you five grand it's like well
five grand is going to do anything but that five grand and then you we just you
know you initially take it out and then you repay it and it costs you a little bit of money but then they're like all
right you paid that pretty quick here goes 25. here goes 50. oh here goes 100 and it's
like you get you have to steadily build on on that and
honestly it's the the cost of doing business sometimes and that's how you gotta just look at things it's not I
don't want to pay interest on this because I just don't want to pay interest it's business is expensive and
sometimes you gotta I'm out of pocket in order to build something that's the business expense of Spain
interest and and building that's a great point is
starting to build that business line of credit whether it's with your bank with your vendors pay your vendors on time
they they'll extend you out a little longer and sometimes you get that you
get to that nice 30-day you know net with the with the vendor and then you're getting paid on a weekly
basis from these and get that mix was really important for us I know you guys have a similar deal
where we do we did some homeowner stuff we get paid a little faster you can get 50 down
and like I said working for a shop we go do the labor only and get that money within a couple of weeks and then your
longer term stuff but building that business line of credit whether it click your bank and or bidders is super
important because then you're not just ripping out of your cash yeah that's uh it's always a little
heartbreaking when you when you get a double large chunk out of your hard-earned money
and pay your taxes because you don't want to be the guy paying interest on your taxes that's another thing like
that'll just that just snowballs on you that's where you don't want to that's
where you don't want to be borrowing from right and that's where when you say paying quarterly right because if you
don't pay quarterly and you only pay at the end of the year you're going to get hit with a penalty regardless
so yeah and it's it's a the penalty is one thing that
um those quarterlies it just is another discipline thing like it it helps you
be more disciplined and entertain those those tax bills um they're not going to go anywhere
they're going to be there so you know at the end of the year if you profited 100 Grand and you've got to give 25 to the
government do you have 25k in the bank that you can just send in you can
sacrifice well that's why it can be tough if that
happens to hit a slow time in your business and maybe you've been drawing on it and
when's it hit at that slow time at the end of the year like what Jose was just
talking about maybe you don't have it well then you get your real penalties when you're not paying it at the end of
the year plus you start including interest and all these things so being disciplined on
your quarterly um you know estimates and I mean there
was times when we get money back because we do the quarterly estimate and plus my
weekly payroll uh to me and my partner we were taking out our income taxes on
that as well and since we were an S corp all the money flowed through so all that
texts that we paid again every single week plus our quarterly estimates we actually get some money back at the end
of the year that didn't last long as you grow that's harder and harder to do but but uh
still I I would recommend paying in uh you know and of course
always going to make this comment talk to your tax attorney talk to your to your your accountant and make sure to
get professional advice but what worked for me was paying quarterly taxes even
though that quarterly tax estimate and um taking a W-2 so that I could get
taxes taken out weekly and when you pay your taxes you get uh basically your receipt is giving you
your net worth and that will help um when you are starting to uh get traction and want to apply for that you
know five thousand dollar loan ten thousand fifteen thousand you got to have a net worth if you don't you don't
have anything but what someone's paid you that's that's that's nothing they need to know that you've paid uh into
the government uh to even qualify for for any of those loans well it doesn't matter what you want to
do if you're going to go through if you want to apply for anything they're going to want to see you know those
let me see those last three years of uh your business taxes yep and yep that's something you don't want
to fall into either and we've touched on this numerous times before it's not not being able to build where you want to go
because of your negligence on not paying taxes and then you can't pay cash for everything
no and that's a pain in the rear anyway and that's not really running a business that's owning a job and you're not even
doing a great job at that if you're not paying taxes um and some people are just fine owning a
job but you still got to do the right thing pay in your taxes
again I don't care if if today I was still installing on a daily basis and
I'd still pay myself a salary I I would still do it the same way that's the one thing looking back I
wouldn't change I think it was the right thing to do it worked and it helped me tremendously in getting that Cadence
down and understanding when I didn't really understand a lot about business I didn't have to like
worry about like making it I I don't know there's a
certain level of personal um security and knowing that you're
getting that payment every week from yourself yes but still that you're you're not going like I said going from
ramen noodles to canned beans or maybe it's maybe you can vegans are better it's the other is a backdrop but to get
what I'm saying yeah or Mexican so we love these
I was like we've kind of touched on the biggest
things and you you just kind of kept them off there a second ago Jose is
there anything else you guys can think of a pitfall for the new guys kind of getting going
um I know one of the comments was talking about you know 401k and things like that
obviously you can do that on your own as well um right if you if you're responsible
with your money you can you can pay into a 401k right right as as you're uh taking your W-2
I do have something to add to that um to this whole conversation is uh
and you know to each their own right it's okay to say no when you start
getting the cash flow and you have friends and family reaching out to you you're trying to build something that's
going to last a lot longer than than a favor um it's okay to say now
yeah well I think that can go down a really deep rabbit hole because I think we both probably have some instances
where all of a sudden friends you haven't talked to in a long time all of a sudden find you again uh I
mean I'm a sucker for family and Daniels too if I said we say no all the time I'd
be lying right and and but if you and your business are not in a
good spot it is in your best interest to to have that control and say I'm sorry I can't
right now even though it hurts your heart I think that's the key is knowing that
if you can't you don't yeah if you can awesome 100 you know help out but at the end of
the day don't don't fool yourself don't let you go you know cause you to say oh they're gonna think I'm not making that's what's
got me like I would help people out because I didn't want to think my business wasn't doing great
you know so if I give them money they they think are successful as the family
mainly you know that this Venture that I jumped out head first into the water for
uh you know I didn't want anybody to think that it wasn't panning out
that there's plenty of times I gave money when I sit down well today
this is this is what being a business owner is this is what we're riding a roller coaster
yeah it is certainly a roller coaster all right well with that guys
it's a pleasure to see you guys how was uh you know I'll tell you I caught a bunch
of fish that were about this big and a few that let me back up they were like
like that so where are you actually I went to uh Northern Canada
Saskatchewan and uh there's a place there called in the lodge Eno Lake Lodge a buddy of Mino
owns that and um and then we take a float plane on into
the Northern Territories and and go to some lakes that have never been fished
or rarely fished and and uh slay them so it was a good trip
and I appreciate you guys covering for me last week yeah not a problem everybody basically
just him talking the whole time [Laughter]
try I tried the whole time I don't know if that's uh if that's a uh
uh indication of your knowledge or no I'm just pretty good at feeling Dead Space dead air right like I'm the filler
guy it's okay I understand all right guys well thanks a lot and uh
we will see you guys next week and um looking forward to hanging out with
you guys at the end of this month yeah in a couple more weeks right yep oh it
is yes it is two weeks oh wow yeah about two weeks away guys uh I guess it's
worth saying here uh FC uh fcic and uh
the CFI their combined convention is going to be in Orlando so if you haven't gotten a 10 if you don't plan on
attending or you hadn't thought about attending I would strongly encourage you to uh get down and come hang out with
some professionals that can look we all learn from somebody I I learned from people I know that Jose and
Daniel learn from others that these shows come down and and you can see a
bunch of different types of businesses and how they run and they people will talk to you and help you through some of
your problems so I encourage you to get down there and experience it and most importantly Crystal will be there
yeah and Crystal will be there go down check check out the uh the show has I almost said go down there and check out
Crystal
this is the new family member oh what kind of dog is that
thanks Luna all right welcome to the family Linda
she's a Shiba Inu yeah
it's my daughter's dog I've heard that somewhere
Dogecoin is based on a Shiba Inu dog oh it's a cryptocurrency thing
gotcha sweet that's a cutie
all right guys we'll talk to you guys next week appreciate you Jordan and we will see
you guys later everyone thanks guys hey bye
The Huddle - Episode 61 - Commercial Safety
This week Jose and Daniel dive deep into safety in a commercial setting, from available safety trainings to mandatory PPE and more.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
hey what's up guys thanks for joining us today Paul is not here for the
introduction so you're stuck with us instead yeah I'm gonna have to deal with us in our uh
I don't want to say half-ass but he's just really good at the introduction it's like he goes home every night in
the mirror and he practices it and then he tells himself in the mirror that you are a winner
we don't even know what you did without him here
would they say that he's out on an island somewhere fishing
a good place to be well go ahead and make the introduction Daniel what's today's episode about
talking about commercial safety and I'm counting on you right now because I'm trying to do
the post stuff oh okay well thanks everyone for joining us
um like Daniel said today we're going to be going over commercial safety uh once again I'm on the road we got
baseball today um a long drive and I got to be there um before the podcast is scheduled to be
over so I gotta do it on the road today it's not for work it's for my son's baseball team
um so I guess uh the topic today is kind of what
what we do we're primarily commercial it's what our focus is and you know if
there's any commercial guys out there that have any input uh during the podcast please 100 in China
um you know we're we're here to learn just as much as we are here to share the information that we have
um now we have is our experience and what we've learned and what what
we've uh had the pleasure of uh of going through
during her commercial uh um careers so
um I guess safety safety handbook because everybody have a safety handbook you guys feel like you don't need a
safety handbook um if you have one you write it yourself or did you hire
um and outside companies do it for you um
and don't have one why why do you think you don't need one
you know those are some some questions that started out the conversations for today
I think what because we just had uh our insurance agent in here the other day
right and that's kind of what we were talking about about the things that they provide
to you at no cost in order for you to set you up for Success right and
utilizing what they what they give you in order to lower
your rates so the the program that they offer you actually can lower your
workers comp rate can lower your your stuff it's just a matter of actually asking them what they offer and then
utilizing them right so our our employee handbook is something that
can be handled through the insurance but our safety handbook is something that we
hired out to someone
yeah you know that's one thing too when he came in this week or last week and
talked to us I didn't I didn't realize that uh just by participating in some of the programs that they have and
utilizing what additional programs on top of just uh the insurance uh utilizing some of
those programs that would actually give us uh better rates on some of what we have
from them and through them so that was a that was really good really good to hear
such that insurance is just gonna go up every year but I guess with the cost of inflation
happening every year it's uh now is a good time as I need to start looking into some of those
programs that participate in to get some of those deductions uh apply to to the
account right and then Rollin asked if we
if people keep their SDS info on PDF or in a folder for each job
and majority of what we do is all PDF so what I'll do is I'll actually send
all the SDS over to the GC the GC keeps it in folder on the
job site yeah I think um you know there's a little bit like
when I was younger and you were on projects I think there were some projects where we were
supposed to have all of that on hand right as the flooring installer just in
case and and I I honestly don't recall the the reasoning uh besides that
people are going to the source that there was a chemical spill or if there was uh allergic reaction to something
that we would have the information but it makes a lot of sense for the GC to
have all of that uh in their their portfolio or their folder um and maybe send out digital copies to
every contractor or on site on a large job so that way people do have access to
that in PDF format um and there's a file you know the electronic world is amazing if you're
willing uh to use it and having all that information at your fingertips it's a lot easier
uh you can reach every employee by just getting in on the file or sharing a file with them and they can open it for every
project cool and then they have everything from flooring to uh
from the floor to the ceiling right and I he said that he keeps everything in
Boulders on his iPad so they always have it and it's readily accessible right and I
think that's kind of so what us we use Microsoft teams and every job is broken
down per project so that's something that when we're bidding we can actually
probably start doing that is throwing all the SDS not only giving them into the GC but just throwing them in that
file that way in case anyone is like where's these SDS at you know and just
say oh right here right on teams it's in everyone's pocket at all times yeah that's a good idea and actually
um the only drawback to that would be is if we're working in a place where uh service is horrible
um that would be the only drawback but I think that there's a way to have access to that when you're offline
as long as you download it while you're um
what other what other safety um program well you know what let's talk
about like the the old chapter like we have milosha over here right and they have a different levels of training that
that I think uh apply to a lot of the larger commercial jobs and um because of last week we just found
out why they have uh customized training on some of these projects
um because they are able to lower their costs on their insurance
and that is uh that was kind of an eye-opener I used to get mad why are we
gonna sit through you know one hour of uh of this or why do we have to take this
safety video over and over yeah from 1978
uh on some projects but um no I get it I understand um I and
you're always upset when you have to sit through all those safety courses or whatever they call it uh Daniel they
call it a when you're sitting down in every whatever you're drawing a blank right
now but um until you're on a project where someone actually does get hurt you need to know
where the emergency exit is you need to know what to do if someone has a fog
what to do if someone has a put a report to how to report um those things are um
they all feel like a waste of time until that happens right I mean we that's what we're talking
about because the insurance agent was here and everything is just Insurance in case something happens right
you don't need it until it happens but then if it's not there then you're screwed you think about first aid kids I
buy first aid kits uh regularly to keep in the veins because
I mean technically you're not supposed to refill first aid kits without getting it recertified right so you can't just
throw whatever you want in there because if they get it inspected they're gonna be like well this is not even supposed
to be in here so why is it in here and it's a lot of stuff like this that we didn't know before
that we had to learn and some of it was you know OSHA showing up to job sites and inspecting what we had
uh we've talked about GCS before walking around the job sites cutting extension
cords because they had you know a little Nick in them yeah and you people that might be
listening to their information just to let you know some of these vacuums do come without a ground wire on the
factory cord stop cutting all of them because it doesn't have a third prong on
there come on man you got to see that that's from my factory you know no one's just gonna go and add a two-prong uh
cord to to a vacuum like that um but sorry that's just me arranging it
I just remember that brand new vacuums like we just bought them and they came through and uh we were offering jobs or
site for a weekend and a day I believe and uh came doing all of our cords were were cut all of our brand new vacuums
like it doesn't even make any sense like Rollin says that he carries two first
aid kits one for for use and one to keep sealed just in case
so there you go uh I do not use a first show first show for show uh first aid
kit that's a pretty good idea I think uh we started thinking about making those
uh out of like a Milwaukee Bucks or something like that but well Milwaukee makes their own pack out for City kids
now oh do they sell refillables that are sealed
and certified see probably not so I might as well just keep on buying the ones that we're buying
yeah might as well um what else do we got for for safety
Daniel um it's really broad because we've already touched on a handful of things and we didn't really dive deep into
anything right so you can even go back to the safety handbook and making sure
you have one paying someone to do it like we did or
look at the fcica they if you're a member of the fcica they actually provide you with a safety handbook that
is uh flooring specific right and I I believe that you are able
to edit that and customize it uh to fit the
size of your company um I I know that
and this is all going on from a conversation that was had at one point and one of the the conferences so
um I believe that that is possible and you can deduct or remove some of the uh
the literature that's in there that doesn't apply to you um you know someone with
10 employees versus 100 employees is getting to have a need for
a more extensive safety handbook I guess I would say
um there's a lot more movement Parts you probably have a lot more things to worry about you know uh there's what on site
safety and then if you have a brick and mortar uh you're gonna have a size gun
but obviously if you then you have your Warehouse safety um
I think there's a lot of things that apply to that a lot of that can go back to getting a hold of your insurance and
letting them know hey come do a walk through let me know what I have to change it's better to do that
and be covered than it is to have something happen and then them come walk
through like why didn't you have these systems set in place yeah
yeah and not only that if you if you have if you don't have some place and then you know
say say you are working on a left or you are doing uh uh off of a baker and
you're doing a vertical install you know over the six foot threshold and somebody
does fall right and something does happen you don't have that in place
you could first off that family could be in a very bad position you know if it's a father
of three uh it doesn't matter very bad position and what do you do to
tell the family we didn't feel that we needed to have thinking programs in place uh protect us
to protect your family you can't you can't put yourself
uh two is is that you know people become complacent people get uh
comfortable not practicing safety like it becomes
second nature you're just ah have I done it yeah I probably still do it I'm not gonna lie
um more so more so probably at my house or anything like that than anything else
but or that's when I started or back when I started when you guys used to throw carpet knives at each other
hey you know what it teaches you how to have better hands it makes you watch it right
right um yeah don't don't listen to him guys we never did that we never did that
um those are just some of those things too like uh depending on who you're working
with and how everybody uh likes to play around uh goofing off can really get you
in a really bad situation if uh if you're not using your brain
um and then I did uh I think we did stop grouping off bill after a little while I remember when Daniel did start working
in that I tried to it was kneeling down and trying to throw a carpet blade
on his back just it sounds really bad you guys trying to throw a cover blade on his
back and I had glue on my fingers and then when I wanted to flick it they went flying in a car uh the guy we
work with Ray right across his nose um yeah and uh don't cover blades are still
sharp in the middle just so you know was not a
was not one of my best moments I just put it that way
now every time we had a gentleman unloading his covered blades and not putting them in a same place as used
ones that are really at a
um and I want to say it was like an assisted living place it was something like that for for young
kids and uh it didn't turn out very well next time we walk in and we found out that one of
the kids actually grabbed it like a piece of gum put in his mouth and try to chew on it
luckily nothing happened but those are those are all learning moments very early and and in my career uh and
after that happens I mean that's pretty extreme on some cases but after stuff like that happens you start uh
to realize yeah you gotta start changing you can't
can't pretend that the world around you doesn't exist and uh and just no one's ever going to
get hurt you can't ever pretend that uh hey there's a guy about my house
um then we we also were talking about um like gc's going around cutting cords and
stuff when there's Nick cinnamon it's just something that you have to watch out for because I mean even we deal with
it on uh uh a semi-regular basis when
there's times when I'll go out on a job site and you know check out how things are going and there's chords hanging out
of you know the end of the vacuum you know because it we already replaced
an end but it's not on there right and it's like it's little things like that where it's going to take 10 minutes to
do it but they'd rather not do it and get done what they need to
get done and then it just becomes an afterthought in the back of their mind and then
nothing ever comes of it until the next time they have to use it then they're like oh yeah we need to fix this cord
I'll just do it after this and it just becomes a vicious cycle right yeah take
10 minutes fix the cord like it doesn't take that long
you know and and for for us and in our industry and
how RT that we have to be at some point and the Hand skills that we all have
um maintaining your your job site even in the commercial industry learn a little
bit about the tools you work with learn a little bit about binary repairs so
that way you can avoid a fine um avoiding someone cutting your gloves and a point injury
um exposed while you're on your floors is not not very safe I mean I've never had it
happen like in the cartoons where you drop a cord he's got a bare wire and and someone's standing in a puddle of water
and everybody gets electrocuted I've never ever seen that I think that some of that is just a little bit crazy
but I think a majority of the time what we witness is uh the ends of the cords melting because
things aren't you know the way that they're supposed to be and just the the current from them
melting them and that's where you know gfcs
yeah oh yeah yeah especially on Commercial projects man uh GFCI ground fault
circuit interrupter those things uh those things are pretty much required
for you to be plugged into uh on almost every commercial project that that we're
online um I don't know how enforced it's been
but I do know that it protects it protects your equipment
it protects the uh uh the circuit that protects the building you know and
it's just one of those things I think we can go on and on about electrical all day because that's what we deal with
would be equipment and Commercial projects I think it is a kind of knowing what your equipment is pulling and
knowing you know basically commercially
they're always running what 20 amps 20 amps 20 amps in commercials
I used to be 10 and 15 and I think that now um it's 20 a.m because
diy-ers like myself are running too much load on a circuit on a thing yeah but
that's the things that you have to take into consideration right because our vacuums pull
the entire 20 amps by themselves that means that if basically there's anything else plugged into that circuit when you
start the vacuum It's Gonna Pop right and and it pops and you draw so
much power the line overheats is what what seems to cause it but if you have
something that is uh voltage isn't regulated like it should be and it is it does have a little bit
more uh amperage on that that circuit it will allow you to run a little bit more but
that's also not very safe um read your read your uh your equipment
your devices um know when you have to ask for dedicated
um Power um you're running phase power or just uh uh 110 that know what you what you need
and what you have right because even even our vacuums are drawn I think 12 amp or not our vacuums but our fans are
drawn 12 amps so if you plug two fans and turn them both on high it's the same thing that's why uh I went
and found some that you can run in the daisy chain that only draw I think 2.4 amps each so you're you're able to plug
four of them in at a right up together
but I need to know that about those about those yeah did you realize that okay that that's what the GFCI is is key
for especially on Commercial projects you're probably not going to run into a commercial project where it's not in the
documents that you're gonna have to run these things so it's better just to have them on your
on your vehicle that way when you when you're ready to work
it's ready to go um what about uh
personal protection equipment PPE so commercially commercially you got to
look at what OSHA requires right and then go from there but
um pretty much every construction company that we deal with
is all 100 PPE so we're work boots steel toes
pants shirts that are high Vis with at least four inch sleeve
uh Hard Hats Safety glasses and ear protection hearing protection
yeah and I think um Airy protection is
something that is overlooked all the time that's very important because I
am hard of hearing now a little bit and it's uh it probably could have been prevented
doing all that grinding and stuff back in the day without any hearing protection and the thing is is it it doesn't cost a
lot you can get an entire box for 20 bucks that'll last you a long time
and I'm mute yourself now I started getting
involved um
the the hearing protection is overlooked and so is uh so is uh the safety glasses
you get a bottle Slumber in your eye and they can put you in a bad spot in a rust in there uh and then you everybody has a
tendency to rub their eyes you can make it worse but I'm gonna go back to the hearing protection part too and
and the the decibels that you push out and like
the in the the high-pitched frequencies from grinding uh the concrete and maybe
some steel reinforcement that that's in there that really doesn't number two yet
um the vibration that you're getting along with the sound that when you're grinding you don't realize it until you
turn it off and then you have that humming yeah that's uh that's not a good sign you guys
um I do know that uh the noise canceling headphones or earbuds now are
uh a no-go at our job so if we're on a commercial project now we're not even
supposed to be wearing headphones this must be strictly ear protection
and that's another safety thing too is if someone says move or get out of the
way or watch out and
there's there's been a few injuries in the state over the past few years that have led to that uh so I mean
one of those things you don't have to like it one thing I'm happy about now is that uh we don't have to wear the masks
anymore right because when that was happening like wearing a mask and the safety
glasses at the same time they would just fog up right away and I had uh plenty of back and forth
with some of the the companies we do work for because it's like you can have one or the other but you're not getting both
yeah oh I would say this spend spend a couple
extra dollars on a good hard hat you guys um I know everybody you know those are
things that you like the safety if something Falls uh and lands on your head first you want to be safe see who
has revenge over all day installing uh well when I say yeah I don't mean myself
anymore my bad but when you're bent over all day installing that thing is super
annoying uh you know commercial projects sometimes don't have
uh the temperature regulated so you sweat a little bit much and it wants to fall off so safety good good safety
glasses uh fog resistant a good hard hat and maybe uh something to absorb the
sweat um we're helping keep it on all day right uh we just upgraded to the
Milwaukee hard hats right and they have uh the system on there to where you can
actually have a light or they actually have like ear protection that you could just flip right up
that way everything is on there when you need it
I think people must really want to talk to me I'm just gonna that's uh that's a call for from the
business line right now oh is it okay
about to block them um but that's a little bit of pp uh e
um oh and you said safety or you said work boots with steel till so you guys it doesn't have to be still throw a
safety tell right they have different versions of it they have composite they do yeah um so and I believe that it's
just got to be um I don't know if the rating is offhand it's just it just has to be able to withstand uh x amount of
pounds per square inch pressure resistant uh to uh there's a minimum amount that is a
requirement that that should be worn right and if you are wearing the safety
toes steel toes uh invest in something that's going to protect the leather like tough toe or
gorilla toe because all it takes is like a couple days and
then you're wearing through there we've all been there yeah um
what else uh I would like to hear somebody's thoughts on Cut resistant gloves
so when I went through the Nora certification they make you if you if
you're over the line and this is like right by you know the modules you step
over that line you're required to have cut resistant gloves on you don't even have to have a knife in your hand
I don't know about you guys but doing resilient and trying to you know
cut in some to say you're you're hand cutting some
patterns and scribing and all that and you need you rely on your fingertips right like
it's very hard with those gloves I told you that I kept in mind when I was doing that kind of work I would 100 be like
um I would keep them by my person and that's it
that's where that's where I would be at Rollin says how can you tell when OSHA shows up to a job site
everybody goes on break he's at the building empties out in less than two minutes
everybody goes on break break time and that's it too we've been there
yeah um been on break matter of fact uh one of my last
experience with them uh that's what we did it we we had a pretty laid-back GC
um as long as we kept our herd hitting our glasses uh on our person at on when we
were walking around being pretty chill but uh didn't really reinforce uh
shoes or boots or safety toe or safety shoes or whatever you want to call them but that one's also showed up he's like
oh and they just showed up because they saw something outside a sky track there or scissor lift that
was extended all the way up um I don't think anybody was on it but he seen that and said you know what this
is a site I want to check out and he just popped in and I didn't know what to do so I just
looked around and I seen uh nobody has their work boots on um
hopefully our equipment was good and that was it break time guys go get
your boots on go get your safety glasses um but we passed so we were good
and I was actually honest with them about it I told him what we did and he just started laughing he was like
well thank you for being honest he was like everybody does it we we know we know what people are doing we're not
we're not idiots right and just like uh as far as the equipment the cords making
sure everything is going to stay safe it's uh actually checking these things when
you're using them and like I said you get
on the job site it's different because you're in a rush I need to get this done I need to do this just keep on going and
then it it becomes an afterthought so we've actually uh every so often will
bring equipment in here in the shop and just check everything over this is broke
this is broke this is bro this isn't going back on the van
but it's it's something that you have to
keep up with in order to make sure that things are going to stay safe and you
can't always rely on it happening on the job site so
I mean we've done it for years take everything off the veins check over everything put it back together
yep it is normal maintenance and you know and
when you work for yourself and as you're in and you're buying the tools and you're using them every day it's a lot easier
to keep an eye on them but everyone out there who is an employee or works for someone who provides tools
um please man just treat them like your tools right and be aware that
if there is a potential safety hazard or something is breaking out a tool say something right uh they bring it to
someone's attention so that way it can either get fixed or replaced uh
I just hate for someone to get hurt or even more occur to get in trouble on a project when it could have been
prevented um to treat everything as if it was your own and then that's really all you need
to to do in order to prevent uh injury um right you're not going to want to
make something that's breaking um here's a graduate that's not going
that's not balanced anymore and you're using a cutting wheel in the shatters and it catches you in the face and
you're not wearing safety glasses like we don't want that to happen to you so prevent it from happening to someone you
work with and uh as far as the cut resistant gloves that you were talking about I did
buy a bunch of them and any new people that we have coming to work here I have been making them
take cut resistant gloves with them because a majority of the time what are
what are they doing scraping you know doing demo
stuff like that cleaning up especially if it's like um if we're you know ripping out some some
ceramic or something yet porcelain you got the sharp edges so I that that is one of the
requirements that that I have is any new people have to
wear the cut resistant gloves that's a good thought
um there's uh does anybody out there have anything any systems in place for safety as far as uh maybe people who
drive your vehicles like I know some some of you guys are pretty big and you guys have uh
vehicles that go off for deliveries every day for for your drivers do you guys have any safety programs what is
I just wonder what that looks like I've never really put a bunch of thought
into something like that but we do trust uh the cruise went uh very expensive uh
tools and that's exactly what they are right and that's that's why I was talking
about the other day is possibly getting some dash cams to put in there yeah
I didn't say that the insurance guy did mention about the
the module yeah that plugs in so that way you can track how your your guys are
driving or basically so they can check out how the guys are driving
but that's something that uh can also lower your rates he was telling us
but I don't know how much is uh how much is too much is
there a thing as too much when you're talking about it because if you look at some of these big companies
I mean everything is tracked right and that if you're even though we're a small company and other people are small
companies it's uh kind of just mirroring what the big
companies are doing because they're big because they're doing something right
that's a when we were stuttering but how much is too much right like so
if you think about it like this and this is this is me just thinking out loud as I always do
um if you're a company out there and you're carrying the bare minimum so that way you can cover your ass
um I get it I understand right you're worried about you but if you're carrying
the bare minimum to cover your ass what about your employees what about their families what if something happens
um to to them and they can no longer provider they're going to be covered what about
the if you have uh we're talking about drivers what is what if one of your employees are driving and goes out and
gets in an accident and you have the bare minimum coverage and they cause damage your property they cause damage
to someone else and their family has in a bad spot I think but that's uh
and you can afford it and get it right if you can't if you can't afford the best car parts find a way to
find a way to get in a position to where you can so that way you can make sure everybody is is safe if something does
happen um having the right systems in place having an employee handbook uh you know
toolbox talk you know I think we mentioned that in one of the previous podcasts about it
and I said that we've been slacking and we have that's also very important um and I think
in order to get some discounts on something that you can actually have a daily or weekly or monthly toolbox talk
and go over safety and make sure that equipment is
um and good operation
yeah it's something that becomes a little uh seems like it could
become redundant but you have to also realize that you filter
employees in and out right and they they might not have been there for
the last one and even though everyone else has already gone through that toolbox talk this person might not
have and that could potentially teach him something that could prevent him from hurting himself that day
I've had a toolbox charge and then it's nice to get a refresher every now
and then they should they shouldn't be managing especially for us so yeah I guess
um what's another you know what I just thought about is uh laughing um and that's something that
I don't think a lot of people really teach proper lifting right there's that video was pretty a
couple years on this that has always lived with your back always um
and for us as flooring installers it goes beyond just learning how to lift something happening from a large roll of
carpet to uh to even you know just about some BCT
because we tend to forget about the proper technique
until we get hurt um
shouldn't have did that yeah why did that just happen I don't
understand I was looking at right you know but you know I remember having hurting my back and having this back for
a while because when like you're installing BCT and say you put three boxes on a cart right but now you're
loading it up material while you're on your knees and you're
rotating and you're doing things that you're not supposed to be doing with it over reaching overextending
um with x amount of pounds in your hand and and and gets to your body
um over time at 100 Balls um so new hires new people
be conscious of what you're doing understanding that the long terms of how
strong you look to your co-workers how many bags of uh
how many bags of self leveler you can carry on one shoulder on three flights a step so you know I'll including a fair
lab I don't know like if I was young I did it it's always a competition
and then the other thing about um safety that we really haven't touched on
it's fairly new when I say new it's what like since 2016 is the silica standard
when all that rolled out uh to require you know the use of hepas and basically
everything that you use now and it's not just uh
it's not just to protect you it's to protect everyone on that job site
whatever you're Frozen right now you might want
to turn your video off I'll turn video off so that way
can you hear me okay though can you hear me okay though
yeah the video is still frozen on here but I can hear you now okay
oh and he's gone so Elena commented on Facebook
Elena coming around on Facebook says uh part of it is work smarter not harder and back to the safety talks it's
important that the message is taking care of your body or your family and future and not just
not just us telling you what to do right because it's that's what we went over in one of the previous episodes was your
number one tool is your body so what can you do to take care of your body and that's when we got into you know like um
our our ride on machines can only work for so long until you have to turn them
off plug them in and let them recharge it's the same thing you know what your body tells you when it's ready to to get
that recharge and you have to start listening to it yeah that's uh
that's one of the things that uh you definitely don't start listening to that until you get a little bit more
remember being young and thinking about that and these other guys just don't like to
do anything they just try to you know Hey where's
uh right hey cut this real quick cut this real quick I gotta go grab safety
glasses out of the van and it's like man here just give it to me I'll do it real quick and now I'm that old guy I'm that
old guy that's like oh you I need to cut this let me go grab some safety glasses
takes a while to understand anyone who starts who was like that at a
young age and understands the what Satan really means from the long term of your career you guys are
steps ahead for sure steps ahead some of us and dumb people didn't care
or didn't really think about it um being safe is one of those things where
it's found upon and people make fun of you at work and maybe uh maybe you should one just be a leader
and just saying this is why I'm doing it right
and maybe some of the guys that worked there you can use them as an example as
to why I look at Jose is when he's walking and that's
because he did years of this without being saved well yeah it goes back to you know when
I was just brought up the silica standard and how a lot of guys are like I've been doing this for years it's too
late for me and it's like it's never really too late it's just knowing that hey this is not good for
you that means it's not good for anyone else else that's around you it's not just thinking about yourself at that
point it's who else is around you you know who are you employing and going
from there because I mean don't get me wrong it was hard taking
that hit buying all that equipment but at the same time not only we are we
healthier now for it but everything is already there for the employees to use
and and you know what and the silica thing like I'm too old for that now it's too late for me no it's not well and if
you're going home to a family just remember that you're going to carry that home in in your clothing too like it's not just on the job site and
you're free and clear the same thing with asbestos not just at the location you're gonna carry it with me
um a lot smaller in a lot smaller amounts
but it's still exposure nonetheless
well like I always say many small time make big time right it only takes a little bit of you know many many small
exposures in order for you to get sick off of something and I mean you look at
Asbestos and how people react towards that and it's basically it's different but it's the
same you have to treat it just as you would Asbestos and you're you're not going to
go just start tearing up some asbestos so why would you just go you know start grinding and stuff and not caring about
about the dust that you're creating
yes we still create dozens of projects it's
just crazy dominance I think about the way that we used to clean large
rooms compared to how it is now sweet yeah yeah I mean just
was not smart and Cloud out dust out an entire room and then worked in there for the next three days and the room was you
know it's a warehouse it says Warehouse 100 by 100 you just gone before swept it with
brooms nose sweeping compound threw all that dust up in the air and the next uh
next couple days all that dust that you that that you put up in the air is falling down on you sitting there breathing right
and you think about all that um years later I wonder why yeah
it boils down to like Elena just said again you know most of it's not super
expensive you can pay with it pay for it within a job or two and she tells her
students that you know you don't think about just the particles of dust from sweeping but she's wearing a face mask
just for sweeping and it's like you know some of that stuff is and it could be a
matter of buying a twenty dollar bag of sweeping compound making sure that it's not oil based
right because we don't want oil but of course
but just you know the little things that you can do for the safety of everyone around you
but I mean right around we're at around 48 minutes right now I think we're we're
gonna wrap it up pretty quick here so just uh go ahead with your final thoughts and then we'll we'll end this
one for today and see if uh Paul's done fishing for next week
[Music] just be conscious of your decisions
right your decisions at work and your decisions to earn a blind eye to some equipment or
some tooling that could use some repairs or is it working properly um could affect more than just you
um long term um if you're on a large crew or even a small crew
um worry about everyone else the way you would worry about yourself worry about
their family at home the way you worry about your family at home that would definitely bring perspective if you're
an employer and you don't have and you're trying to skate by with a
very minimum of coverages and you're not having your employees um
and you don't have coverage think about that think about things
[Music]
you can just you keep on cutting out so I'm just gonna go ahead and start talking out uh I agree with you on it's
not all about you it's about everyone that is around you
um we do a lot of Hospital work so a lot of what we do has to comply with
infection control which makes things uh you want I want to say it makes things
harder but really it makes things easier in order to be compliant with everything else
because that's one of the main things with the silica was oh we're in hospitals so
we're gonna like day one is we have to be compliant and when you talk to infection control
there's numbers out there that you know there's so many people per year that died just based on
dust getting in the HVAC system and messing you know with whatever they got
going on and it's if you're not thinking about just things
like that and you can't even say it's a little thing because you're talking about someone else's life it's
if you can't just think about oh let me buy an air scrubber because I'm going
into a school and there's kids in the classroom next door you know many I'm and I say it all the
time many small time make big time it takes little steps on everything to make
something you know big and impactful and you know just
start making those small steps to not only uh prevent things but making sure that
people around you are covered it's it's not just all about you so safety is is
everyone start thinking about huh maybe you don't care about yourself just start thinking about everyone else
that's going to be around you and you'll end up being safer too safety's a team effort everyone
all right well we'll end it there and uh thanks everyone for joining Elena hold ahead
and Rollin for uh joining us and commenting and uh we'll see you next
week make sure uh you guys are are liking the stuff you know subscribe to the YouTube channel go careers YouTube
uh you can find us on the podcast when uh I actually remember to update them
which I have to I think I have two of them to put on there right now
I'll get to it at some point all right we'll see you guys next week
have a good one
The Huddle - Episode 60 - Effective Project Management
This week the guys switch gears from their short series to focus on how to effectively manage a project.
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome to the Huddle we come at
you every Tuesday 3 P.M Central to discuss maintaining poor progress in your foreign career
be it an installer a company uh we we um kind of tackle a ton of different topics
on this podcast with me as always Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez
Grand Rapids Michigan almost at Detroit it's okay we wouldn't even know we
wouldn't even have stopped you we would have just let it go oh well how's it going today guys
well we're a couple minutes late right but that's good because I was actually on the road I didn't think I was going
to make it uh so I I logged on on the road and took that opportunity of being a little
bit behind to get in the office I had a little technical difficulty here uh I'll
call it as it is it was user malfunction and any uh any part of the actual
technology so well um we are today's topic like I said
before we we kind of tackle topics from uh all sides of the industry whether it's
you know the the training organizations but uh to to companies and installers but
primarily we're talking to the installer um and um
those who are are looking maybe to move their career in a different path start a
flooring company uh take over their dad's company their uncles whatever
um be a successor of some sort uh all the way to just the guy that's out there
working his butt off for the industry installing carpet and tile and resilient
and all the good flooring products out there so uh today's topic effective project
management uh we've kind of touched on some you know key points to this topic and
other episodes I guess we could probably we'll probably be saying that a lot now that we're what 60 something episodes in
we've 60 60 this is number 60. zero
we've been doing this for over a year guys so uh I want to thank all of our audience and the people who tune in
um I love hearing from you guys I got a call this week actually got a couple of calls this week
and it's just nice when people reach out and say they enjoy the Huddle and they
watch us religiously on one of the media channels um
and bring up questions that they had on some stuff so this this week uh got a
call from an installer on uh just wanting some some guidance on on how to
move into the commercial world and so that's always refreshing I'm sure you
guys get it too I know you do so it's awesome and I want to just thank everybody who uh Tunes in and uh without
further Ado we will get started
um I'm gonna start with a question what is project management
it's it's kind of used in so many different Industries for so many different three so many different things
if you if you ever want to do an experiment go to ZipRecruiter and put a
put a uh job posting for project manager and see what you get wow
you'll get everything from uh a guy that
uh designs and oversees or project manages new parts for airplanes to
project managers for uh food companies it's it's a big broad term but
in our industry it's just that it's a project and there's a manager that has to oversee the schedule the labor
allocation and the finances and budget of that job
so do you guys agree that that's pretty much what what the uh definition is for
us I do I do and I think uh depending on the the size of your outfit is going to
depend on what that project manager has on on their plate so if you want to give
it that title right so it could be the owner yeah oftentimes is is one of the I'm gonna
I'm still I Still project managed work and and we do um you know hundreds of projects a year but I still project
manage work I know you guys both run jobs and project managed so
um there's always seemed to be pillars to to these types of titles as far as like
effectively managing projects uh what do you guys think some of the pillars are
to you like the key points that all the other stuff falls under
well the the main key point for for us is going to go back to like one of the other episodes where we talked about
communication um like that right there to me is number
one um if you can't keep an open line of communication or
understand how to communicate any aspect of the project whether it's with your your client or your installer or the
crews or multiple Crews um you're going to be in a really really bad spot
yeah so that was the first pillar on my uh that I had written down as well and I
put labor and client so the head obviously a lot of times uh for
the audience uh we don't pre um on every episode we're not able to
kind of get together and plan for it so we ad-lib some of this stuff and and uh
one of the great things about PF is we have a lot of similarities in how we look at business and and so we can get
away with that because our answers are the same uh so
I wanted to say that communication doesn't just mean communication when it's convenient
or when you have good news or you know your your client wants to hear
from you and and your whole you don't want to hold off and tell them nothing silence is worse
than telling them hey I don't know yet I just sold the vendor the materials are
still not released or still not produced or still not on the truck or he's
dealing with that right now oh my God right I mean you still have to call them and say I wish I could tell you
something and I certainly would if I could but this is the reality and sometimes
you got to back it up with communication on add to vent to that communication list your vendors because a lot of times
it saved us with our clients where we just forward them the email from the vendor and say Here's the proof we're
not just trying to delay your job or not show up or short labor they automatically think you don't have guys
and you're using material delivery at least that's kind of the tendency around here I don't know right I want to speak
for you guys but they tend to think like you're purposely doing it or something right and then
even even when it comes down to to some change orders I just had a project out of school and they're like we need to
get it done by this day and I'm like well that's already gone and sailed right but we can get the product here
sooner and that's all I did I took the price that the rep gave me I'm like I'm not trying to make money on this I just
want to get this material here just as fast as you guys do this is what it's going to cost that's it yeah
yep and and showing uh we have uh a job well several dealerships we're doing for
a dealership group and the one thing that we're waiting on is the entry math system
it's like a you know an aluminum I won't name any names or anything Ben's aluminum entry mat system there's a
couple out there so yeah there's a few out there so you can uh but you know
they take time to produce they're custom every single one of them are accustomed to the size that you need and our client
just keeps pounding on us about the delivery of it more like has it been produced yet has it been produced yet
and when our PM doesn't communicate that it makes the client more nervous they
don't think you even are working on their problem if you don't communicate and so that's why communication to me
even if it's not the news you want to deliver maybe it's no news
um you know waiting to hear good news and then communicate that because that's easier and feels better than
communicating bad or no news right but it's important I think that you still
communicate the bad news you know let your client know that you're on it
um and same with vendors if you're waiting on something communicating with them because certainly uh we have a
saying that our company that we get we have to be better than our vendors because a lot of times they tell us that
they and it doesn't come in and so you know we have to deal with those issues as well as communication from
them they don't just offer up hey it's on the truck it's on its way because
there's so many fires and I don't blame them I'm just saying that it's the fact right yeah product waiting to hear on
but if you don't reach out to them and communicate it's like we're the Catalyst to the whole situation we have to reach
out to the vendor get the information and then call our client give them the information because it doesn't always
just flow freely from our vendor even if it's a rush plot issue because
they got 20 other of us that probably have the same thing going on so the squeaky will gets the grease and um you
know we we've talked about communication on almost everything but the saying is there for a reason communication is key
or the key and uh that's because it's probably the most important part to any
um aspect of business whether you're collecting money
um you know trying to Be an Effective project manager or whatever I mean you guys love communication what what's
one of the tools what's your best um not tools how do you guys look at it I
mean do you do you consider when you're talking a client
let's use a situation where you have a client you're really there they need to
get in their building and you don't have the answer do you guys still just call them and say
look I don't have an answer yet but I just called that kind of stuff yeah
it's it's not even it's communicating with them that you're also communicating
with your reps and trying to get some answers it's like I talked to him three times today and I still got nothing yeah and it's so going
back to that right there like I just want to add to that too you said communicating
um good news or bad news to me it's more important to communicate the bad news
so that way a solution can start materializing if you need to kind of take a a lateral movement and then it is
the good news the good news is uh great it's gonna be good news at 8 A.M and it's still going to be good news at 3
P.M right but the bad news at 8 A.M is better to have the bad news at 8 A.M
than 3 P.M um too like if dude if you could just tell
me the day before that you're not going to be on and not just don't show up or
don't you know it's not even like that with us it's with our cruise it's uh it'll be 3
30 and then they'll be like hey we're not going to be done today and it's like you should have known this hours ago
and lunch time at least at lunch time at least by lunchtime you kind of have an indicator for ding
sure I did um that that that's what I'm I wanted to kind of draw you know guide
towards or or get to was you know we need our our crews to communicate with
us too when you're talking about schedule it's not always the vendor I mean there are vendor in that in the
labor side is the crew yeah or the employee installer just letting you know
so you can effectively communicate a lot of times they I
I wonder why they don't you know um my guess is they think they're going
to disappoint you or you're going to ask them to work harder or something I mean
at that point it doesn't matter I mean depending on the schedule it it is room
for disappointment right but like like I said you can't start finding a solution unless you know that there's an issue
you know and and that's the biggest thing like it's okay I don't if I'm doing something
and I'm not going to make a deadline I have to bring that out to the Forefront depending on what type of project it is
if I don't know till 3 pm that they're not going to be done that day but we were scheduled to turn it over uh that
night for cleaning crew I like egg on the face right like that's something I need to know and then and
going back to like uh the wrapping the vendor issue too it's one thing that I've learned
recently is the open communication with them hey just checking to make sure that my
product is going to be here on time hey I haven't received a response on the purchase order or a courtesy response on
the purchase order that has something two months ago and uh where's the products produce scheduled to be here
two days ago and I haven't seen it yet oh yeah we never processed that oh my goodness
yeah that's another example of like being better than your vendor yeah it's
just like we've had it the same exact thing where oh we or they whether they've didn't
place the order well we sent you know some guy at your company uh a
confirmation and never got a sign so the order didn't get placed or something and I'm like you guys don't
follow up like so that's where you just gotta like follow up pay is this order good is it
placed isn't it moving yes okay well lesson learned I'm I'm on my behalf as
well like don't don't always trust the process right and if if something did get missed or
overlooked uh it's not one way or the other it's it's both sides and if it's late
it's my fault regardless I have to say it's my fault um yeah
I can't I can blame it on whoever I want but I have to say it's my fault it doesn't
make anybody look any better when you start saying well this person and that person or this company that company you
gotta be willing to take uh the full force of uh of whatever incident whatever bad news
yep I'm okay doing that I mean I'm not okay doing that but I'm okay doing that does that even make sense
well I mean sometimes it's it's it is both ways I mean sometimes
like the bad news uh they're gonna find out regardless anyway
it's just are you gonna communicate so that they can start problem solving which is number two on my list is
effective problem solving but account it's it's derived from communication so
it's real hard to like you said you let right into it
it's hard to start thinking about Solutions and problem solving if you
don't know there's a problem so that like I said the earlier you can communicate that the better off you are
that's across the board that's every that's I think that's everybody that has to be everybody
so on effective uh problem solving um you know provide Solutions is top of
my list like think of it from a Solutions provider I love like even your guys's uh I believe your email
um signature says something about your Solutions provider or something right
yeah thank you for trusting preferred flooring for um helping you with your flooring
Solutions or something like that yeah yeah I mean it's like you know those things right there I don't even think about this like I was doing my my
signature and I was like oh this sounds pretty good well it's true though that's what you
really do um and then I I have focus on future
don't you know it's it's real easy um
to it's real easy to
get in a situation where you're fighting over what has happened and you're not
focused on trying to get whatever the problem is solved I had a big blow up
last week I'm I'm um probably still have elevated uh cortisol
levels from getting in a big you know argument with a foreman on a
job site and I was just trying to get him to understand that I need your help
now to get this building done my guys have this problem
you should have been done a week ago okay what can I talk about that how does that
help the situation right now I'm not god dude you can keep yelling at me about how I should have been done or I can say
that you didn't you know pay attention to our durations and we can have a fight for an hour on this thing
but right now I'm about two hours away three hours away from finishing your job
if I can get a solution to this would you like that let's let's talk about so
I I want to focus on what we can do about what is that you know right at us right
now it's kind of like what do they say you know you don't worry about you know having an infection in your toe when a
lion's chasing you or something like that I mean does the problem is right that is the problem all the other
problems all the other stuff you got to solve the main problem first and
so um which leads me into the last part of effective problem solving is
understanding what the problem in front of you is and not getting distracted by what these other little things that make
and I have a specific thing in my head specific problem in my head that why I'm
saying little things they may not be little things but in this particular situation all this other stuff was
inconsequential it's it's a time waste at this moment we
have a lion on top of us how do we get him off how do we fix the problem that is happening right now and um
you know we got around it finally got to it so uh you know got the got the the
problem solved and we actually got the job done we're a few hours late but got the project completed
um so what else what is on your guys uh what else do you guys see as effective
uh you know key key things or important things on effective uh project
management um being open about scenarios up front with
the guys uh you know trying we've been around for a little while right we've been in a lot of different
scenarios you're talking about planning I can already tell you yeah it's planning right so you you hope for the
best you plan for the worst um and try to give as much information up front
as possible without overwhelming anyone right so
that way they can process what they have in front of them without overwhelming
um so they're not already on a stressful level so that way if a problem does arise then
they're able to attack that that particular issue or that particular
problem without worrying about the stress of everything else because it's kind of mapped out um
I wish someone did that for me when I when I started but um it's not always the case right and
some of it is you just gotta go with the flow but that's try to alleviate
um stresses whenever possible for from any of the crews or uh the generals or
the the sales rep or whoever the client try to try to go over those scenarios and
possibilities um before they become an issue ahead of time so like planning to me could have
been I guess I have it down later on the list but it could have been number one too I mean because that prevents so many
problems and issues that come up um there's the six P's that
um a guy here that built to cut well Rent-A-Center Tom Devlin uh I've talked
to a bunch of the people that have worked for him back in the past when he owned a Rent-A-Center and he sold that
in like the late 80s uh real big success story for here in Wichita and he started
that entrepreneurial uh program at our college at Wichita State University
I I tell you that because one of his sayings was the six P's was piss poor
planning or uh proper planning prevents piss poor
production I like that so you know from a
production standpoint and getting stuff done if you plan properly you can get through
uh you just alleviate so many headaches I I tell my team it's like invest your
time don't spend it if you invest it it's early on you're investing in the
project you're investing these hours and planning and it's an investment because
it has an Roi it pays you back you get that time back for damn sure you
know if you're if you don't plan and you have all these problems at the end and we've we've had it we still have it
where project managers don't plan out their project properly and have a good
um well plan for how how they're going to get from A to B whether it's a phase or an entire job or whatever
and I always try to I don't try to I preach
that it's investing your time when you're planning it's spending your time putting out flyers
and I can't think of a better way to say it but that's just the kind of the saying
that we use and when it's done it pays dividends man it pays back in
spades because you're just not wasting all that time and and you know how it is how much more money do you spend hot
shotting material or doing things like this when you know paying extra freight
or on the phone just constantly tracking something because it you know we're not
perfect we don't always plan appropriately but a little bit of planning could have prevented it and uh
you know earlier ordering check in with your vendor on is this a
you know three to six week production or is this a six 12-week type of production those types of things are what gets uh
still get us in trouble sometimes you know we'll we'll think something's a a normal you know it's out of stock back
order uh kind of product or whatever and you just assume that because the last
order was three to six weeks that this one is yeah maybe it's a different fiber on a carpet and they have to buy the
fiber they don't make it in-house and then they're waiting on the fiber production and all these things that can
happen so you want to be a Commercial contractor yeah
that scenario just happened on one of the projects that Daniel was talking about is uh you know they they they put
in uh a revision on a product and they wanted you know 12 foot wide uh sheet Goods instead of six foot wide to reduce
seams it's like well all right well let me find out if it's available yeah it's available I have
this much right now in in this state all right awesome so everything got approved two days later place the order
it was gone and it was gone yeah so we had to go back to production so any
clients out there watching just remember if you don't order the product immediately it could be gone immediately yeah we
don't have the control and the Mill's not or the distributor is not going to
not sell it unless you have it on hold or ordered yeah we're talking thousands
of yards and that was um that was because when uh uh a corporation is involved
right they have their their processes and procedures that they have to follow as well and everything's got a trickle
up before we get an answer right okay yeah I like it but let's we gotta get an answer we gotta get an answer until it gets final approval and that's
what happened and we got it approved in a couple days but that was a couple days too late
yeah I've had that happen a handful of times you order something or you check stock on something and then
I say a handful probably five handfuls of times over the time
a handful of time over the last couple months probably but you check on it and then just about
it seems like immediately someone in the you know atmosphere heard again ordered
the damn product right right after you called and checked stock on it ding ding ding order now yeah I've been in their
shopping cart for three weeks I wanted to bring up technology and its
role um it's not a pillar but I thought it you know it has a role here it is a
pillar it is a pillar dude you think it's a pillar okay it is what what's your uh
so technology to me the reason I didn't call it a
pillar was just the fact that and it probably is but the reason I didn't was
it supports effective communication it you know if you think back before email
and stuff how those people had to get the information from one person to the next it was days you know picking up the
phone calling someone else's landline hey Jim that carpet's not going to be
here until February all right click he has to drive to the job site let his
superintendent know you know I mean we didn't have all this technology where it
was just instantaneous and you're forwarded messages and stuff and you can get the same information in seconds it
used to take days to get so it really supports effective
communication um and understanding you know one of the pill one of
communication and and that is a pillar and go Carrera because that is one of
the biggest things that we feel uh can help is keeping the communication with
the project if you do a lot more a lot of projects you know text messages and
emails can get lost or or just um you can find them but they're in a
chain of things that you don't remember what was said before or after or whatever and we have sometimes we'll
have people that you start a communication on email and then they go to text message message then it's a
phone back to email yeah like just we were there we were there that's what we were doing it was hard to keep track
right and then there's five different threads uh text messages and then the emails and then you start having a
conversation about Project B and C but you're on email thread project a and
there's just like ah um it takes practice to get better at
making sure that you're intentional on the communication in its specific area
and where it belongs and um in its piece of technology yeah and
and don't get me wrong I was really really but now I'm the one who gets
frustrated when people are taking conversations outside of of uh a specific thread where it should be where
it belongs yeah where you can keep track some some level of tracking on it yeah and
Daniel was light years ahead of me it's amazing the difference he's only six years younger than I am but it's amazing
the difference in technology what he grew up with versus what I did yeah yeah the the the understanding and importance
of what he has taught me uh about technology versus what I thought I I
didn't need um we just had a conversation with the client today uh measuring with uh you
know measuring with the mobile app walked around with me distract me there's so much that I left
my laser and my tape measure there and he called me when I was five minutes from the shop hey Jose you forgot sure
did but yeah you know technology goes a long way I
mean there's a bunch of different ways where it it can help um
overall life obviously but when you're talking about project management
everybody else is moving at the speed of light you know communication with your
client and if you deal with General Contractors and bigger General Contractors that are using procore and
all these things and you know go career is kind of the pro core for flooring Subs in a way and it just wants to keep
the communication packed um around the project but the point here
is if everybody else is using it you better or using a piece of technology and this
is not obviously to you guys but if you're a if you were a fan of the previous uh
series about becoming a flooring contractor one thing I can tell you is that you're going to have to embrace technology you're going to have to
really look at the different accounting tools and the different you know communication tools and different uh
applications that best serve your business but they're essential for these
other things to work at all
it is and it's hard to um it's hard to
explain that to some individuals who are still stuck in
their old ways I would just saying right like oh I don't need that I'm successful without that and like
you know I guess if you willing to to stay stagnant and in that
same repetitive lifestyle then yes but if you're someone who's trying to scale up
and you're trying to you're trying to promote your business
and and get better and become more efficient then technology is something you cannot leave behind trying to have
forward progress yeah amen there you go some people just don't understand that
man and you don't want to it is it is hard especially like when we started
implementing teams it was everyone is learning it all at the same time and I'm
still learning it yeah yeah I mean and and Technology changes too right so
they're gonna have updates and then you gotta relearn it but it's like without having everything in that
particular job you can't just go back and be like oh let me just scroll through this job then you got to go
through dang who was that that I was emailing what was their name again yeah what project was that tearing up the
search box yeah turn it up I hate the search box I think that you're right
technology could be considered a pillar or it could just be complementary to every pillar that's in there right like
the first time that holds all the pillars up I mean to me it's an add mixture to your
foundation that's all it is yeah it might not be a pillar but it's definitely mixed into every every little bit and piece of of
any industry and you know problem solving you could use technology plan for the future for communication whether
it is the client uh the labor rep manufacturer like technology is part of everything that we
do right now and it's not going away anytime soon amen so on when you're just to go back a
little bit to proper planning I I forgot to mention this is uh I'll be a little vulnerable
and transparent one of our biggest problems um across our team is
setting realistic expectations early on part of the planning process
but you know I got a PM right now that's uh kind of he learned his lesson that he's
in a a battle pre-planned to battle with a contractor who asked for durations on
the last portion of the job and he said it's going to take three weeks the guy starts you know mauling it over and and
responds well that should take two weeks he goes it's gonna take three weeks
that's our duration that's how much time we've already done nine of these
buildings we know how long the the last one's going to take with our current labor source that we have available to
do that job and it's going to take three weeks that's one thing and I'm proud of being
for like doing that and and getting out ahead of it because we were expected to
do the same job the same building um each one of the other nine in in uh
like three days and it's impossible without without having seven or ten guys
on each floor like literally one one crew per per unit it's
without having one crew in each unit doing all the different flooring whether
it's the LBT the base or the carpet or whatever but doing the whole scope in each unit and having one crew in each
unit on each floor it's impossible to get it done in three days uh we ended up
having like 40 some guys on that job site at one time trying to get it caught up because
on or we allowed the client to set the unrealistic expectation it goes you know
sometimes it's them setting it and you don't say anything but part of planning is re rebutting that and saying No this
is how long it should take and uh I mean it it caused us a heck of
a problem you know because go career or not I could shoot out a work order and maybe get some extra guys over there but
then you got you know hours of time when you're on fire like that to try to get a new crew
started on a new job and all that stuff you're like effort this guy did the other apartment
the other student housing get him over here he did one get him over here you know and you're trying to just get the
project finished um but I I feel like that that planning is
really a lot about proper uh expectation management you know like telling the
client what the real truth is and I found more and more and you guys probably can Echo this that we are
getting squeezed more and more on our duration yeah and it's like guys
some of the products have to dry before we don't control that
and I don't know if if concrete's nice and dry and the humidity the ambient
temperature and humidities uh reasonable then it'll probably dry in an hour but
you know you get get a few uh a few dozen Windows opened into the job site
because people want to throw their trash out of them or something all of a sudden it could take four hours
for that same area to dry and so that proper like duration
um has been that's and and the fact that I don't know where it stops but clients
thinking that because one job you were able to go slam in 1100 yards in a day of carpet
tile with two guy two Crews or something that that's doable on every job because it's a similar size and one's a big
single room and one has 20 offices and it's like do you not it doesn't it's
not apples for apples but a lot of times they just look at square footage look at square footage
um and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't comprehend or compute so I want to throw
that out there that you know properly setting the expectation when you're doing your planning
um can help a lot as well and we we have to get better at that everyone has to get better at that and
that's that's something that I've done too in the past where they do give you a timeline and then
you're like no it's going to take this much and then it's like well if you want to take that much you know you want to
cut it down by that much time we we can but it's going to take this much more
to do it and you know switching products out it's like we're not going to skim coat the
whole thing we're going to self-level it with an expensive self-leveler that's going to cure in an hour
so I mean you wanna and sometimes it just can't be done no
matter yeah yeah I got another job that had a similar deal we told him a month ahead of time
or ahead of time we told them it was a month duration to get all this Nora uh
flooring down and it's a a lot of yardage Flash Cove heat welded
everywhere like the hallways are not you know flat lay in the rooms
everything Splash code there's Corners everywhere and they just couldn't
understand why this area was going to take so long and we said because we know what it's going to take it's going to
take a month you know when they release their damn schedule they give us 13 days
guess what happened didn't get done in time no way but come on it's it's taking them off and it's also
not something you just throw a bunch of more people at because more people doesn't equal more production and equals
more problems especially on something as particular as Nora exactly it was it's a very particular product and on top of
that the the you know when you can get too many
people in an area like not everybody can be productive when you start doing that I mean you have to be able to get out
and get to the water to skim coat but if that hallway is that that is the only entrance into the
other room is glued up or has product pulled back or it's being pattern felted
or whatever the scenario no one can go through there and so like more people doesn't always
solve the problem and that's why those durations you know we kind of Saved ourselves on that
um that deal because we we had it in writing that it was going to take a month to do we told them very clearly to
take a month and they they completely ignored it and that's you know what that's the sad
truth that's happening right now is everything is getting funneled in and you know we're we're finishers right
like we're coming in as finishers and they're trying to get us the final product that everyone's going to see
that everyone is going that needs to outperform the stuff that's hidden um they want you to hurry up hurry up
and get it done I remember a conversation one time and you were talking about uh ambient temperature and humidity we ran into a really bad
problem with humidity and we're prepping and nothing's drying not even with moving air I remember the the general
telling me well you need to get more people here and I because I was young and the person yeah
exactly that's exactly what I said right I mean you want them to breathe on it like I don't understand what more people
is going to do well that's not what I mean well that's what's going on right now so I guess you
know it's one o'clock and we don't usually leave at one usually the last one's here but we're leaving there's nothing else I can do
so it was funny you said that that's exactly what I said you know and we've had
instances we've had too many people on a project uh you know we've had new guys and when you have a new guy sometimes
you do have one too many extra hands and you know I just I remember a friend of
mine that worked with us and he was handing handing one of the installers one piece of Base at a time because there was nothing for him to do so he
had it over his shoulder here you go hahaha
oh yeah you know the other thing when you start talking about Shiba and stuff
and uh we've had this happen you have one crew over here doing cheap on
another crew over there and there's no specific boot way of doing the boots and
they don't communicate one dude does a butterfly and one does an outside on my inside corner or an outside corner
you know different ways of of doing your corners and and they're like we like that way better
than that way we're like it's not specified and you you yeah you made us have three different Crews on the site
yeah one of those things that just happened and I wish we would have caught it and like had some pre-con meeting
with all the crews but yeah that time you're on fire so again planning durations can save you but that that
locks it in for if you ever run into that situation again you're like hey you guys were already there what are you
doing so that's what everyone is because none they're both right yes yes preference and if and if um any
resilient installers out there and you run into that and if you're going to a project and it doesn't specify then then
spend some time doing mock-up so they understand what you're talking about when you say uh if you're if you're
there helping another crew or doing the job yeah go look at the other guys stop see how it's already been done uh that
would have solved our problem too but that didn't happen either and if you um ever get put in a situation where
someone tells you on a Friday that you have to work through the weekend because it's got to be done and then you have to hire other flooring companies to come
and help make sure you're not the flooring company that says yeah I can I can do that yeah
oh man nightmare unless you're friends with the other flooring company and you can talk
between the two of you about the best way to attack it yeah doesn't happen
very often in the same Market obviously but all right well uh what other
you guys got anything else that's the end of my my uh list that I had written down that I found that you know I felt
like was important on our side um I do have something else
um and when you when you're project managing
put forth an effort to know your people you're right um
it's something as simple as as knowing a hobby knowing what they like to do and conversating
um it it is one of those things that is very hard to remember to do when you feel like you
have a million things to do all the time right is to be personable but
um me time for that be intentional about that that's
yeah and you're no one knows it as much as they want to right or as much as they they probably should unless that's their
full-time job but be intentional and knowing I don't want to say your
audience right because it's more than just your audience but the people you work with whether it's a rep versus uh
your your employee or uh your your contractor like
strike up a conversation know them get to know them I'll add on to that just a little bit
maybe not so personable but still uh important in that same arena is
uh you know the quality expectation of things and how things are gonna look
you know making sure it's clear that
um you know I know you for example uh we had on that student
housing project they they rejected they totally said no prep like do not prep the floors
right no no we're not paying you a dime to prep anything all right sign this paper you understand that what the
concrete and Chip Creek look like is how this floor is going to look right
and um so going through that and and listing
out the things that can happen like we can have peeling because chip Creek's not properly prepared and all these
things and just listing them out and the the concrete itself had blisters in it
where air bubbles came up it didn't pop it's like that's going to show through it's going to look like debris under the
lvt but it's not debris it's the concrete bumps that are like throughout so
um we don't always sad to say you don't always have the highest quality projects
uh and project expectations that you like I've got a few projects I wish you
know we we didn't have to do because it you just cannot possibly do the level of
quality you would like to uh but when you do come up against that it's important to uh you know plan on the
expectation and make sure your client knows this is what to expect and not just verbally I would uh highly
recommend you put that righty but uh knowing what their expectation is and
you know what it's going to look like and then marrying those two together so that everybody's informed
yeah we we just we walked away from
one of the construction companies not too long ago because they had uh I did
all the legwork and you know got a system approved from the manufacturer that is still technically not warranted
by the manufacturer but it had been performing so I did all that and then they came
back with no we just want to put floating floor in there I said I'm not gonna do it and then they got all
angry at me and I was like when I say butt hurt is what he was going to say
but I just talked to uh the owner of that construction company and I got a
meeting with her in a couple weeks and she was like oh yeah you were the
one that was supposed to do that it's all failing already
we don't say I told you so either we just say well need any help finding a solution yeah
yeah you could say it in your brain but uh and it feels good to say it in your
brain even but not very productive to what's wrong with him you don't go
I mean yeah oh no
um so some people just don't understand and I get it sometimes sometimes Solutions
are outside of the budget that's available um I I get it yeah that's what happened now they
didn't have a a dime extra I mean at all and I I usually will even give some to try to
get it right but it's such a massive project and because it's individual units you give to one unit they're going
to want all the units so unfortunately you can't give to even one unit or else everything else
the you just raise the expectation level now you're skim coding and floating and doing everything on every unit why can't
all the units look like this because you don't want to pay for it and I decided to make one look good well then you
should have made them all look good you know that kind of thing the unit I'm moving into so I spent my time working
on it so yeah that's the one my kid's moving into so uh yeah
all right guys well we came to the end of our time I I feel like uh you know affected project management just to
recap the whole thing here real quickly is communication with your labor your
client your vendors uh effective problem solving being a Solutions provider uh
embracing technology and then proper planning prevents pissport production
so all right guys well that that hour flew by as usual it's always a pleasure
to hang out and talk to you guys um again I just want to uh say to the
audience convention with fcic and CFI is coming up at the end of September uh
look I don't get nothing for this I just think it's valuable for everybody that can go to go so I know you guys feel the
same way I came here come hang out with us and yeah I was going to say actually I do get something out of it let's just
go hang out yeah we'll hang out by the pool bar yeah yeah and if the if if it's a Tuesday
maybe we'll pull you in on the podcast and you can contribute and and be part of the uh part of the Huddle so oh the
the convention does start on that Wednesday right so you should be getting there a day earlier anyways
yeah then when you can join us I think we have some um we had to attend a few things on Tuesday anyway yeah we
have a meeting that goes right up until the time when this is supposed to start so I'm probably gonna set everything up
somewhere go to the meeting that old story yeah yeah you've always
got an excuse always that's how I mean we've shot him at poolside we've shot them in yeah right outside the doors
we're going to be here on Tuesdays that's our that's our goal we've only missed a couple in over a year so
um and and one of those I think was a full technology failure so you know
sometimes it happens but um all right well uh last but not least please if you
enjoy the content or you see some value give us a like a subscribe if you're on
a YouTube channel or you're you're catching this on one of the social channels you know comment tell us what
you guys want to hear about uh one thing I was gonna throw out there you know with all the Facebook groups we're part
of I thought we'd do um maybe take one episode a month to just dig through some of the comments we
won't name any comments but you know we want screenshots we want to put them
up put them on the screen let's dissect these we can I mean they put it out
there publicly but uh you know go through some of the the questions some of the problems out there some of the
funny you read and oh man yeah on the on the Facebook uh groups uh but
just our comments about the uh that you know maybe it's the go career comment section of uh from the Facebook uh and
Instagrams of the of the world so I think that'd be fun a little off the
beaten path not always so serious about how to run a business and things and just uh you know have a little bit of
fun with it so that does sound like a good time actually yeah it would be fun if you
guys are here and you want to comment on one of those uh and you have an idea for a topic on the podcast give us a give us
a shout on there you know let us know and and we'll do our best to put something together for it and maybe your
episode ends up I just read that comment really but commercial planning is some hard
stuff when you add all these episodes or yeah I'll add all these episodes together
yeah all right guys have been commenting on here
oh man sorry that's funny to me because overwhelming
yeah well there's a lot to the business there's a lot to any business but the flooring business uh you know that's why
we're here we're here to help people and and that's why we do it in segments right because you learn a little bit at
a time because many small time make big time amen all right fellas we will chat with you
guys next week and um until then have a good week yeah thank you all right thank you guys
The Huddle - Episode 59 - So You Want to be a Commercial Contractor pt. 3- Getting Paid
The guys will be continuing to part 3 of a 3-part series on the key things you need to address when you are starting your commercial flooring company. This week the guys are joined by special guest Dana Canaday, while they talk about getting paid and all the ways to do it.
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GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
welcome to the Huddle uh welcome back we're coming to you every Tuesday 3 P.M
Central with me as always Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from preferred flooring
up in Grand Rapids Michigan got a special guest today Dana Canaday
which uh Dana is a controller at our other company Stewart Associates as a so
she does a lot with payments and such which is our topic today so uh this is the third part final part
to a three-part series um so you want to be a commercial flooring company or contractor and uh
I would come out and say the very first thing uh this is on getting paid if you
haven't watched previous two episodes you have got to go watch those uh so go
to our YouTube channel subscribe uh you know throw us a like
um or visit one of preferred um social platforms or our social
platforms it's all over so watching those two is most important to today so
kicking that off um I'm just gonna come out and kind of refer back to last week so we were
talking about the g702 g703 really intriguing topics here but uh they are
they are the getting those two documents right
is probably the most important thing of you getting paid all the other stuff is
you know the lane waivers and such that varies on contract to contractor contractor to contractor uh whether or
not they require those but almost every single contract that you get is going to require those AIA documents again g702
and g703 which is the schedule values and your applications for payment
so that being said I'm going to start it off with a question to
um well let's just kick it off with our special guest Dana Dana we um
you've been in construction for how long tell us a little bit about yourself
and I I started out working um for a general contractor and actually
worked with them for quite a long time and before making the move to Stuart and Associates just
um a few months ago actually and also just thank you so much for having me on
today I have listened to your podcast and I think you guys are putting out some really great content and I think
it's going to be really helpful to the industry so thank you for committing to
getting that done and and thanks for having me on well we are very happy to have you
um yeah in your uh time frame at a general contractor so you're you're
really your Insight on on these topics is and there is going to be you know
really valuable because you've been on both sides of the payor and the the payee on
that we're addressing in this podcast which is your specialty contractors that work for you and you worked for a really
good contractor um that uh you know has a good reputation Doug builds quality projects
and also you know is a good payer uh we realize that that's just not the whole
industry and and the whole market so sometimes you got some
you know challenges out there and um without getting too specific could you
tell me some of the challenges when you were a GC what it was like to on getting
paid from owners uh since that's where it really kind of all starts
yeah great great question and I would also agree with you that you know having
that background of submitting the proper paperwork the first time is definitely the most important key to getting paid
whether you're a general contractor or a subcontractor because
um it's the first step in getting your pay application moved in line for
payment but I think um some other important tips for
um potentially risky um or you know not knowing whether or not you're getting paid is knowing who
you're doing business with you know understanding who your customer is and what
um kind of situation that they might be in um obviously that's not always possible
depending on the size of your company or the kinds of projects that you do but I
definitely think that that can help um in having a better you know
understanding of of even like how your pay applications are going to move
through their system um but I think some of the common reasons for non-payment is you know
funding um getting payment from um
on the GC side it could be you know from the bank or
um if there's other parties involved so that's like when a when a GC is working
for an owner who has a uh loan to build their building and they do a pay
application to the bank basically correct yeah that's exactly right and
sometimes it's also through the architect um so it kind of just depends on what
the project is um but definitely those things go all the way down the line as as
subcontractors are intimately familiar with right yeah yeah I think one of the challenges
for a sub is we don't get the chance to interview
um with the owner or really get intimate details on the owner
um so sometimes you know you'll have a project that goes really well we actually have one I won't mention the
name of the project but we have a project that went really well um and our payment has been
very very slow or held and you know it's it's the the owner
um and at the end of the day we don't have as much opportunity to investigate
and know who we're dealing with so what what would you say for a sub uh
which is the seat you sit in now what do you say like does
do you look at because I kind of consider looking at the general contractor if they're good payers then
and they have a good reputation to pay and then they're pretty good at vetting their ownership of who they do work for
is that is that a good statement or is there more to it I I definitely
at least what you know like knowing who the owners are as a
subcontractor you can do the same thing with the GCS that you're working with in
understanding how they determine even what projects they're going to bid or
um you know and I I feel getting into construction like one of the things that I love is that it's so relational
um and I I loved hearing stories when I first started of people being able to do million dollar projects on a handshake
you know and we just don't live in the day and age where you can really do that anymore but it's really just about like
honoring your word and um knowing who you're doing business with even if that's the GC I think that
helps in you know all of the whole process you
know Daniel and Jose how do you guys go about do you guys uh
you know we've all got the contracts that say uh things like uh reference the
master contract between the owner and the and the company supersedes this contract in certain ways and certain
things do you guys dig into that and try to get to know who the owner is or do you when you get a contract that
references the general contractors uh contract with the owner
I think the stuff that we've been bidding we've it's a lot of Hospital work and
and you know the companies around here we actually know who the owner is it's not
like just some random person or something like that but I don't I don't
think we've gotten to where it says you know get with that contract and then the one that we did get it that said you
know refer to that contract they did include it and we did have to skim through that just to make sure yeah
um depending on you know the size of the you know subcontracting company that you
are it may not always be feasible to dig into all of those details you know what
I'm saying like if you have a lot of jobs that you have to like read through
you know 120 pages of contract like I mean that's overwhelming and
intimidating you know and honestly it's not even always reasonable that you can
do that you know it kind of depends on how your company unfortunately um fortunately to to for me anyway and
this is my view is a lot of a lot of what's in that contract is open until uh to interpretation right like if
if that match or contract specifically says the general contractor and I try to exclude anything that doesn't pertain to
flooring and I'll leave that to the general contractor like it says general contract doesn't say specifically for
the flooring contractors so I try to I try to use that does it
is it going to hold any weight I don't I don't know but it's not specified for me to to abide by so I try to eliminate
that from from my portion as well when going through and trying to figure out what terms I think that's where you know
some of this comes back to Paul's point last time when he was talking about make sure that there's a spec in there
telling you exactly what you need to do and what needs to be provided yeah the scope that scope uh that
outline of the scope is like imperative if you can get it in your contract
um it helps a lot but you know I think what the reason we're starting here is because payment really depends
um at its the very first level is doing business with people who paint and
um sometimes when you're doing hard bit work and you don't know who the GC is
going to be because it's a full heart bid and all the GCS have been all the subs are bidding it and you end up with
that job um you know you don't always have the opportunity to select who you're working
with but when you do and if you're going to bid the the hard bit stuff that's a
risk you got to take but when you're bidding negotiated stuff like I know that you guys do probably 90 negotiated
at preferred uh we do a really fair amount of artwork is negotiated as well
that's better obviously because you get to know who you're dealing with from the
beginning um and you seem and it's more relational which we had a whole podcast on building
relationships with your GCS and your your um your client in general but it all
starts with having a good relationship and and uh knowing the company that you're working with and then kind of
getting the flow or understanding their flow of payment and and what they request and you still
won't always get it right uh but you know a lot of those things
um a lot of the real difficult projects that we have ran across are the hard bid
jobs just about everyone that I can think of that's not all of them but uh
that are harder to collect on it's the hard bid job the open bid Market projects and honestly I would I would
challenge business owners to even consider you know are you even profitable and successful in those other
jobs that it's worth it to continue doing a lot of work that way because you
know when you have a relationship I mean having the benefit of doing negotiated work is a is a great privilege and a
testament really to the kind of work that you do that someone trusts you well enough to to give you that work
yep yeah and um you know I'm going to go back a couple years too to where we
weren't necessarily in the best of situations when we were trying to you
know spread our wings a little bit into sales and you know I'm fortunate to have relationships with some of the local
contractors and asking them like hey you're asking me to bid on this work
right I know it's not negotiating you have to get it's amount of bids what if I asked for 50 up up front and
if I'm awarded in the contract like well we don't really do that I was like well I'm not really in a position to be able
to afford you know to float out you know fifty thousand dollars here and 30 there
100 here we're not you know and like we're not in that position yet and you
know all they would say was we'll work with you on it if you get awarded and then that kind of solidified
that I think we did get them working we got to work with a smaller jobs so that way it's easier for them to say
it's not over X dollar amount so we're we're not going to do 50 or we can't
but we did we did try to work our jelly on that for a little while and it didn't work success
were you successful with that in some regards you guys the the ones that we started doing that with will still like
every time a contract comes through they're like if you need a bill for anything let me know
yeah and honestly I would also encourage that and Paul and I have kind of talked about that recently that you know it's I
would definitely encourage because the general contractors that you do have those really good relationships
obviously they want to keep you happy as well and you know unless you're having
those relationship kind of conversations that they are understanding where you're coming from and really set everybody up
for the best possible success right like we can meet these deadlines if we can
have these kinds of things then it just it makes everything
it made it a lot easier for us and um I don't know if you guys can hear me right now but it was a little glitching for a
second we can hear you um being a smaller company and starting
from the labor only and and I was not shy right like I everything on the table
everything on the table like you guys I want to get to a point where I can afford to float those for any project
that we're awarded with you guys however in order for me to get to that platform I need to I need to be transparent and I
need to say this is how this is the route that we can take to get to that point so that way we're not
overextending our finances and loans and trying to you know leverage the funds
that aren't necessarily ours you know so we and then
with that going that route and then some companies from out of state contacting us and wanting us to bed I'm like well I
don't know you guys so because we don't have a relationship we do require 50 down payment of the overall bid
until we have an established relationship there's no if answered buttons and they either said sorry we don't want
to work with you or they said okay no problem um hey Dana you're on mute
Jose I think you brought up a really great point and you know putting it all
on the table there there's this risk involved with being vulnerable with someone right I mean that's really in
any kind of relationship that you have in your life but in business you know to be vulnerable like that you run the risk
of them saying like no we don't want to work with you or even making it hard for
you to do business because maybe they're going to join track all of your stuff or things like that but the thing is is
that when you're vulnerable it builds trust with people and so if you're dealing with the right people then
they're going to learn that they can trust you because you've been honest with them about where you're at and
um I I think those are great ways to um develop relationships with your um
GCS or owners or whoever you're working with yeah sometimes it's when that very
first at the very beginning when you're dealing with the new contractor
um you know back in when you're if you're doing smaller a smaller project with a new contractor it's one thing but
you know like a big hospital or something with the new contractor I wonder how that would go over to uh
you know ask and this is honest question that I
want you know for example we have a 1.3 or four or five million dollar project
that we just uh bid and we were interviewed for and it looks like we're
you know on the front we're we're in the front of the race at the moment what would it do to say hey we really
need you know 50 of the material cost or something like that paid uh you know
within even if you gave some different terms like net 30 not pay when paid but net 30 type stuff right uh I wonder how
that would go over with those bigger contracts so um you know what let me to that is um
when the conversation came up about the finances and if we can uh afford it and or
from me saying that I can't afford to do that as they were like well then if you can't afford it why are you trying to do
it and I said I said okay so if you're saying that to me so something saying yeah if you're asking me to bid on this
and you can't afford to put 50 down why do I want to come and work for you you know like that's real that's good
dude I like that you're you're telling me that I gotta gamble but you're not you're not willing
to do it either right so you meet me in the middle you know like it's the same thing it's the trust them bigger
businesses they just have a lot more literature paperwork they have a bigger team um but at the end it all gets filtered
down to the same values same same understanding same principles that's
exactly right good point hey Daniel so I got a question for you uh I know you do
a lot of the office work and stuff but you know I think the next point is
I'll make a statement and then follow that up with a question on how you maybe
do a collection call at uh preferred when you when you need to call and collect but understanding the contract
terms uh for our audience is kind of the next step like you really have to understand what those terms are for your
contract if it's paid when paid and understanding the pay schedule from the owner to the contractor as best as you
can is kind of your you know your next step after you've done your uh you know
your AIA documents your application for payments correctly then it's like
understanding what to expect from them and uh and then you got a call and and
follow up on getting paid sometimes so I was curious on uh from your perspective
and what you guys do there preferred Daniel what's what's I think we've been lucky we've been lucky to not have to
deal with any of that to the point where even when we were you know waiting on retainage the construction company was
very upfront with us and was like I mean we already got most the payment then it's like hey the owner isn't giving us
the remainder of this check and we're like almost every other day they were
contacting us saying that they were contacting the owner but as far as like
not not receiving payment uh we haven't run into that on a contract basis a lot
of the payment stuff that we do have issues with is for other flooring
contractors as a subcontractor or um actual homeowners like that's why I I'm
not a big fan of dealing with the residential Market
yeah but um well the
residential is a whole new a whole nother thing but you always get 50 on that don't you up front yeah
I don't do enough we do I don't know five to maybe on a busy residential year
10 projects 10 residential projects but we always try to we always get payment
up front with that yeah yeah I would advise that and and just for everyone listening to I
I want to make sure that this gets set to the the 50 that down payment is
because of material um and language it's not just the labor only project it's the full scope
um so we're not like accepting a large late-rolling job and just asking for money for work that we
haven't completed so it's that it's to cover our our buds on the material and
the purchase of and securing it and ensuring that well and in construction you can't
actually um claim Revenue that you haven't earned yet so but you can make those
negotiations for materials up front and what a great thing is that you know to
be able to at least secure what you need to to do your project even if it's down
the road
no but material is your biggest you know obviously your first expense and you're
often your biggest expense on a project so trying to cover those costs which we
did get into in a previous episode about you know having your materials land so
you get your bill from your vendor close to the time when you're able to then Bill your contractor
those are kind of keys to try to help with cash flow but uh
so you don't you don't have a lot of uh connect collection calls uh I know I was
actually going to ask you what it what is your guys's process so we can get a glimpse into that well I I had I have one trick that that
um outside of what Dana does and she does a great job she's really helped us
um frankly we're not the best collectors in the in the in the business uh we we are continually looking on how to get
better um Dana has been doing a really good job on that uh one one thing that I always
do if I'm told that multiple times that they have not been paid by the owner is
let me I would like to call the owner or I'd like to call the architect and talk to
them and make sure that you know see if there's anything that I can help with uh
even if they're not saying it's my scope that's causing the owner to hold
it I'm just saying that I'll offer hey how about I call the architect and put a
little pressure on and let them know that we're looking for payment or the owner um and uh maybe that'll help you
a handful of times that I've gotten a check within a couple
of days from that and I didn't even have to call now that's not the best
um best feeling because it feels like they probably had the money and they were
holding it for some reason uh your mind can wander on that one but uh
the the fact is is that you know I didn't have to call the architect or the
owner and payment was released and it's um and and when it is something I do call
the owner and I have um in fact I've got one in particular that I'm done on my
mind right now that I've got to call the owner and talk to him and and uh so offering to call the owner or architect
a if they have been paid the general contractor has been paid for your
portion of word they don't want and they are just not paying you because they're some other reason then
they really don't want you to call the architect and owner and find out that they've been paid for your scope of work because then by law they have to pay you
within seven days if they've been paid at least in Kansas in seven days I'm sure that varies by area but blog Kansas
is seven days after receipt of the payment from owner the contractor has to pay their subs and vendors so
they certainly don't want you to find that out and those are the instances where it feels like they probably had
already been paid so anyway that's that's one of the things uh we do we have some other
collection processes Dana can kind of give you some high level stuff there that we
one I I know one of the biggest things that we've ran across is we didn't get your application for pink
we've we've had that so Dana's put in some new processes and and uh worked
with some of our other uh leadership on on that but Dana you want to speak to
some of that yeah sure I think that um probably the most important thing about getting paid
is having good communication and um that really involves knowing who you
should be talking to about that and that can vary greatly by you know company job
whatever because sometimes you have to talk with someone in accounting or sometimes it's important to talk with
the project manager or sometimes they have project Engineers or project
accountants who know that information and knowing who the right person to
communicate with is um really important part of you know keeping that moving along
um and I do think that having a system and making a point to follow up is helpful in keeping cash coming along and
um identifying errors early in the process and that really just all starts with communication
um phone calls emails whatever honestly is successful
um depending on who you're dealing with so that that leads us to
[Music] um the the one of the final kind of I
wouldn't call it last resort but pretty close is maintaining your lien rights on projects and
um so I'll tell you what the lien rights are here in Kansas is you have to file lien on the project uh
within 90 days of the last time you performed work on the project
um it doesn't have to be a significant amount it can be punch list but it's got to be 90 days within the last time that
you were sit on the project um so that's the lien ride so for the
audience like you want to maintain those um we don't lean as much as uh a lot of
companies I I've got a friend who owns a painting company that does a lot of the same projects as I do and they get paid
a lot better than we do and uh that was really revealing to me and the fact is
is they'll profile lean like at 45 days they're they're they're said the letter
and saying hey we're going to file Lane if we don't get paid um do you think that everybody in the
audience even understands what that means um
uh I don't know do it take a explain what I'll explain that part of it uh
yeah I was just wondering because I I've like I said I'm not like intimately familiar with who your audience is but I
I did wonder you know if people who might be watching even knew what that meant but so really Alina is just a
claim against property that can be used as collateral to repay a debt and so an
example of something that a lot of people could be familiar with is like a car payment so if you have a car payment
then a bank has a lien on your vehicle so that if anything happens to that
vehicle that the bank is going to get their portion and so you can apply that
then bigger so whenever as a subcontractor you're buying materials
you're paying your employees to go and perform work on a drop a job then you
have a claim at that real property that is you know being built
um and so it that's that's the only like recourse you have as a contractor or a
supplier to make sure that you're getting paid as to file both liens and
definitely it depends on jurisdiction and the kind of work that you do but it
is important to know what those rights are because you you could very easily
um diminish your rights or even not have anything to get started without knowing
you know what you're getting involved in yeah you could lose them all together uh
one note is federal government you cannot lean uh those projects so you
know playing off the way Dana just said some jobs you can't lean and that's the
federal government now uh obviously they have plenty of money if they need it
they'll print some more so yeah it's pretty pretty easy to to know who you're
dealing with in that case um I would say one more
um add-on to your lean um or maybe just to build on that a bit so
the idea is if a when a bank transfers title ownership of a building over uh
and the they can't close out a loan for example on a building if there's a
current lien on it so that's why you want to lean early uh if you are going to lean a project is the fact is is that
that bank can't they can't close out the note to on a on a project that they have
funded um if there's current mechanic leads on them uh also the
say for example the owner is not um this is a not that this is a worse
scenario where the owner owns the building didn't take out a loan for the remodel maybe he's paying cash or has
investors to do it so if you lean its property it's he and he's going to be
there anyway there's nothing there's no trigger to make your lane worth
something it only comes into effect if he tries to sell that property so it could you're still protecting yourself
but it could be years down the road before you get the money if he if ever uh if you're dealing with somebody
really right and Elena is something that you have to renew right you have to renew the lien every year or
something like that yeah some
something that you kind of continue at until you get what you want and
obviously saying that you know you can you can put out some money to get money
you know so it has to be worth it you have to know what what you're in it for so no um I do know that that here in
Michigan there's like Windows of opportunity right like uh you got to submit uh notice to lean within certain
time parameters and the same uh there as well well it's a little bit different on
so if you're going to file a lien you gotta it depends on the uh property
really all residential you have to notify the owner so for example if you're doing work for a builder you have
to notify the owner that there is that you have an intent to lean that property
um commercially you don't always have to do it but uh a notice a notice of intent
to lean being sent to to the GC and to the owner and if
there's an architect an architect then um that's kind of your first course you don't just run out and file lean
I would encourage everybody to First file a notice of intent to lean and name
everybody on it and then once you've done that then and you can do that
in-house like you can save the attorney's fees for that part I mean not legal advice please always talk to your
attorney but I mean in most regards you can you can do your you can send that
notice of intent to lean yourself um it's something that frankly we probably need to be a lot better at but
at the end of the day filing that first kind of puts everybody on notice that a
a lot of times the owner doesn't know that you have not been paid or that the subs not been taken care of and it's the
GC uh that that and then they put pressure on the GC and and make them
pain uh B is they have a right to know what's going on in the background and if
they're if they're because you know an owner of a big building they don't know
all the subs intimately for sure sometimes they may not even know who you are their their contract is with the
general contractor and so they're depending on them to vet the subs correctly and and make sure they have a
good quality sub crew but the owner does you know as a course of
respect uh does probably need to you know best best practice would be to send
that notice of intent so that's kind of the way we do it
um we're and again this is always changing another thing that I can say is that we've done business with certain
companies for 10 15 years and then they get change they change your accounting system or their they have some turnover
in their accounting department and all of a sudden they're just it's from a payer's or a paying standpoint they're
told it's like dealing with the total different company um so yeah just kind of having your head
on a swivel um now when you're knowing your client all the stuff we've talked about already
um and then to kick it back to do you guys ever get that um
that excuse that they didn't get your pay out do you guys not get that yeah it didn't seem like it and we we get it
enough that it's like oh yeah since I handle all the pay apps I'm
usually I'm sending them and then I'm like please reply so I know you got this and
then if they don't reply that's when I'm like making sure that they got it it's the invoices where people act like
they don't get even though uh oh say right on there open this day at
this time open this day at this time we didn't get it we only opened it 27 times
laughs yeah I I QuickBooks is tough from a job costing
standpoint but some of those things are sure freaking handy knowing when they opened your your uh your your pay app or
because a lot of uh times an opened email doesn't mean they read your pay app and I've had that excuse like yeah
I've seen the email but the pay app yeah or wasn't attached or some
something right um so yeah we've talked about like that
follow-up that you just spoke of Daniel I think is one of the things we're getting better at is like we send out
our Billings our payouts and then we follow up hey is there any problem with this do you see any issues did you
receive it okay that kind of thing um and then there's a balance of like
not wanting to totally exasperate your client with so much of it but at the end of the day
we got to get paid for what we do yeah you know yeah I mean we spend a lot of
money to get other people's jobs done I I have a question on this I don't know
if this even applies in my commercial but um we've done the work with uh real estate agents before and
purchase material done the work and said that we were fine waiting until uh property was closed on for us to receive
a check from the title company does that happen in commercial as well I mean we've never had any commercials that's
why I'm asking and then how did you guys approach that if it does not to my knowledge not not that
particular Arrangement um nothing comes to mind where you're
waiting for them to close on the building or what have you although I mean in essence that's kind of what
we're retainage ends up being it seems like is you know once it's closed on
then you get that final money but uh from an overall project standpoint uh I
could see where developers or big big residential builders would love to have
that kind of a situation where they can build their spec homes and you carry the receivable until they sell that spec
home and then you get paid I hope the profit's there for you in those types of
deals yeah we didn't uh we didn't do we haven't done any of that unless there
was a contract in place already and we were just waiting for the turnover so yeah
um we did have some weird scenarios too though like we're one of uh my buddy
actually passed away before uh an invoice was satisfied and that was the
contract of the contract transfer though
we made it through it and got it um yeah that's unique
you can get in a ton of different scenarios from a residential and all those types of deals you know a lot of
these uh big builders in the residential world I'm sure operate some level of of
not you know you're not going to get 50 down and those kinds of things it operates maybe a little more like a
commercial job but in commercial the key is everything we've talked about in this
podcast and the two previous is getting your payoffs in understanding your contracts and then you know maintaining
your lead rights and follow-up again I I'd probably say this on 90 of our
podcast but it's it really a lot of it boils down to relationships and um
good or bad sometimes they can get hurt in collections so that's that's one
um line to navigate you know all right well hey uh we're we're about
20 minutes from an hour and I feel like we've pretty much covered all the
pertinent information here uh so we might actually finish the podcast a
little early today you guys have some that's why I started lavender inputs
yeah so when uh our local Builders Exchange
teams up with different lawyers in the area and they they'll put on different
like uh webinars and stuff and it's I think it's at no cost but I'm not sure
since we're members or might be a members only thing but like every quarter I think they do something on
liens and it's like I've I've attended a couple of them and you
learned something new every time and it's since it's so localized it's
everything that you have to be following in this area and what they have seen you know in their cases that
if you don't do this you're probably not going to win when if it goes to court so I mean that's that's an option to
look into it's not is that through your chat is that through the chamber no it's uh the Builders Exchange
okay so it'd be like our Builders Association maybe there's I was I was just gonna say there's actually a lot of
different kind kinds of organizations who put on events like that and some of them are members only but when and
sometimes when they're not you do have to pay a little bit extra to attend but it's also interesting to note that if
you know you can go to an event put on maybe by the AGC which is you know
worldwide and they might give a certain perspective or um in my previous job I was a member of
cfma which is for construction financial management and so you know they might
present it in a way so you might be getting different bits and pieces depending on who's offering the content
and that could be really helpful as well in knowing and understanding your your
lien rights or pay applications and stuff like that
yeah the AGC is a really good one have you are you guys a member of the
AGC up there uh have you guys ever went to any of their stuff Daniel no
they're they're pretty good um even if you sit in on their general
contract there they have some certain meetings that anybody can go to
um at one point there was a pretty decent um
subcontractor Community for the specialty contractors of the AGC in
Wichita that kind of uh fell apart but when it was pretty live and I don't know
maybe I should kick start that thing back up but the when it was around it
was nice to have the different trades with their electricians and Painters drywallers and roofers and
Steel Erectors all in the same building talking about what matters to Specialty
contractors to us to us subs and I wish it was a stronger portion of the EGC the
the specialty contractor their they did a really good job of being on
our side when it was our meeting but for the most part obviously it's the
association of general contractor so um fair enough it is mainly for General
Contractors um but at the end of the day ma'am I if you you might check at that
um in your area and see if the specialty contractors have a a good um meet up it was like a monthly Meetup
or something like that if I remember right now I used to go to him pretty often um then the specialty contractor that
was doing that ended up going out of business honestly so I don't think
anybody's picked that that piece back up here do you know of anybody Dana that's running the specialty contractor side
here not that I know and I've never been personally very involved with the AGC
but what I can tell you from what experience that I have had is that they're very pro-industry so just like
you said like they're really I mean they may not have something for specialty
subcontractors in your area but even if they don't you can rest assured that the
AGC was working on behalf of the industry they're they're lobbying for
um good uh uh help for the industry as a whole I
believe yeah so yeah I think that's we haven't been part of that um or been into any other events or
anything but we have been to a few events for um the ABC the associated builders and
contractors so I mean do we have a chapter of the ABC
here so again really good information on the
stuff that we've been to it's you know they do a presentation and then they break everyone out into some workshops
where you pick and choose exactly what you want to know more about and they have experts there and
it's actually pretty sweet we should probably get some more of those but I believe they only do it once a year
yeah so forget we do have access to some of that
information and some of the legal documents through the fcica as well um that's just a matter of digging in
and contacting the right people but that's um it's more I don't want to say generic
right but it's more generalized for our industry specific but these other associations you'll definitely get a a
different perspective um on how to approach uh any anything
legally or or any of the other General Contractors you do work with yeah it's a good point if you are
considering and if you've watched and consumed this series I'm I'm I'm
assuming that you're at least thinking about starting your own uh you know material and labor providing the whole
kind of you know full service flooring company um getting involved with the fcica would
be is is really a good idea the other organizations are all great
don't get me wrong and there's plenty of them to be a part of but the fcica has done a really good job with
the business of the flooring business like they've they've got a lot of of uh
good high quality information their Sim program does really well at training your project managers or your
installation managers um in fact we're trying to assemble one in Kansas City for uh to have
uh three days to send there so uh all that being said getting involved with
your local you know or I should say your local but your industry specific uh
organization and associations for flooring fcica is is really good
usually we're talking about the training organizations just for you know
installing and stuff but there's plenty more out there for the business knowledge and stuff too and that you
just have to pick and choose uh I mean go to some meetings go to some of their free events and see who you like
see we touted on on the podcast all the time
like get to Convention the different conventions and the different shows and fcic there was one coming up in
September at the end of September their Jordan force was with the CFI and it's
down in Orlando did I get that right Orlando yep Rosen Shingle Creek in
Orlando we'll be there um uh exhibiting as well as their on uh
you know learning more uh it's a great opportunity if if you're watching this
uh I cannot encourage you enough to get to that because that is like a training
entity and a kind of a flooring business Association that came together and did
is doing one show and and that should create a nice energy uh and really good
high quality information so make it to make it to that show and like like Daniel said I mean get to seica has
events about uh was it two or three times a year uh twice at least twice mid
mid-year and then the end of the year so look into that um
yeah so any other little bits of nuggets that we can give the audience before we uh close it up
for the day yes the next Regional competition for installer of the year is
September 15th and 16th in Fort Wayne Indiana so we got to get more people signed up
for this and you know our our trade is filled with people that say they're the best now let's uh put your money where
your mouth is let's go show everyone yeah so all you guys out there
that's in Indiana he said this one is in Indiana and there there may be one more
in Texas before uh surfaces
okay so just as a quick overview if anybody doesn't know what Daniel's
talking about every year there's an installer of the year or carpet hardwood
uh I think that's usually some uh mix of
lvp and cheap vinyl but resilient um and then uh do they do Sprint they
don't do something they've changed it so they're only doing two categories this
year they're doing carpet and lvp so those are your two headquarters I
know last year they did wood and carpet yeah and then the previous year they did
they did have like a carpet resilient and ceramic I believe one year that was
in 20. there was a there was a lot there was a lot going on yeah
and I know that lvp sounds easy but trust me when you see the patterns and
the crap that is laid out uh Mr uh guy
who lays big rooms of lvp and says it's so easy this is not the same thing I can
tell you that but put your skills to test uh Fort Wayne Indiana when is it again Daniel
September 15th and 16th that's a Friday Saturday and the best way to enter that show is
through cfi's website or what's the what's the easiest way do you know
that is a good question um I tried to look at that I can tell you
at least you can call CFI certified for US Dollars and and and uh they'll give
you the information but I believe there was some info possibly either on the wfca or the F or
cfi's website right I'm sure because they're they're it's a partnership right now so I'm sure that you can find it on
either other websites or it might even be on uh the international service event website
yeah so you know what that's probably a good place to live once you've done the the regional and
you win your Regional you can make it to uh services in Vegas and then actually
if I remember right they pay for your trip out there yeah they pay for your
plane ticket they pay for your hotel stay they give you a couple of food vouchers that get you like uh one peanut
and a water if you're lucky because that's that's how Vegas is
you forgot to you forgot to tell them you gotta go through a two-hour tour of
uh some time share to get that peanut yeah
if you're a good installer and you want to test yourself get to get to Fort Wayne give it a shot
um they I can tell you I've been to multiple of the shows in fact Crystal sent who's Daniel and Jose's uh sister
has competed in that and she did very very well I was a blast to uh to be
there that it's a it's a fun um it's a really fun way to prove your
skill set so um yeah so yeah encourage everybody to make it to the uh CFI fcicio at the end
of September and also uh get out and get involved and try to try to test your
skills and see how good of an installer you are see if you can make it to Vegas so with that I am going to fill this
podcast down everybody thank you for joining me Jose and Daniel as always Dana thank you uh for joining us today
really appreciate your input and uh some of your uh insights into the other side of the
industry you know the gcd side so I hope everybody got a lot of value out of uh
this series and understanding we're not trying to scare you from going in and doing it
um we just want you to be prepared and understand that it's all it's a lot more than just you know printing off an
invoice off of uh your accounting system and shooting it to your customer when you're finished with the job or in some
cases handwriting an invoice or just turning into one corner that the that the shop gives you saying here here's
the invoice it's it's not all that easy yeah there's a lot more involved to get
your money and we wanted you to be prepared to choose to join um you know the the commercial flooring
world and and um start employing people and buying materials and bidding on work uh it's
rewarding but it's a tough business so we wanted to kind of give you the info up front and I know a lot of uh you guys
out there probably have some opportunities coming down the pipe uh in the next uh you know half a decade next
five years there's a lot of flooring business owners that are looking to get rid of their companies or or retiring
and they're looking to to find somebody to to take that over and um I like I
said earlier I've been approached by a couple of people who that's happening to them and they just wanted some advice of
it so hopefully this podcast can be a a resource for those individuals I know a
lot of people I can't go to Convention with these two without them being you know inundated with crowds of people
asking questions like that you know wanting to know what you guys are doing so tune in to the Huddle and get a lot of
their uh their thoughts and brains and um with that I'm gonna cut it out and uh
I appreciate everybody and we will see you guys next week all right see ya thanks okay thank you good day thank you
everyone all right see it
The Huddle - Episode 58 - So You Want to be a Commercial Contractor pt. 2 - Payment Applications
The guys will be continuing to part 2 of a 3-part series on the key things you need to address when you are starting your commercial flooring company. This weeks talk is about all things needed to apply for payment and get paid as a commercial contractor.
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The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.
family welcome to the Huddle coming to you every Tuesday to discuss maintaining
for progress in your flooring career every Tuesday 3 P.M Central join us uh
Facebook uh YouTube however you like to consume please consider like subscribe being
commenting uh you know commenting let us know what you're thinking and questions
you may have and we'll we'll uh incorporate that into uh this podcast so
with me as always Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred Florida
Grand Rapids Michigan and every time we start I'm always looking down because I'm sharing it to groups right now I was
gonna say that everybody thinks he's probably always ignoring you the first couple minutes no he's just uh piping us into the
interwebs all right well today is um a Bittersweet this whole series is
somewhat of a Bittersweet kind of uh subject line it's
it's uh pay applications and uh well it's really about whether or not you you
know giving you some information on uh whether or not you want to actually
become a commercial flooring contractor but uh uh this this episode is on pay
applications and payments so we all like to get paid uh but in the uh commercial
construction world it's a process let me put it that way
so just to introduce construction accounting and and what what you have to
do uh there's two main forms one's called the g702 the other is the g703
the g702 is a pay application and the g703 is the schedule of values
we'll start with g702 um it's an application for payment
okay so remember that application not an invoice okay that means that it can be denied or
changed because you're applying for for payment um it's
uh decide its whole design it was done to show the total
less uh you know let's say the original contract amount
net net amount of change orders the new contract amount uh less retainage less previously build
and then your new uh payment amount back
at the beginning here I was talking about the g702 and g703
and the g702 being the pay application and the fact that it's a pay application
and not an invoice so it's an application for payment right so that
means it could be changed or even even um uh declined or denied
uh so the the whole design of that pay application is to uh show that
what's your total contract amount is plus any change orders uh positive or negative ads or deducts I
should say uh and then less then show the retainage amount let's say
it's 10 and then the billable amount because you can't bill retainage until
the end of the project so it takes it out at the very beginning there and so you then have less your retainage less
previous pay applications and then your new Total
so as a quick thought exercise let's say you have a hundred dollar uh project a
contract amount you get a 20 change order that makes your new contract them out 120 bucks less retainage of 12
dollars uh would leave you at 108 bucks if that's correct math
so now you have a hundred and eight dollars and say you've built 50 bucks before that leaves you with 58 dollars
uh to available the bill against and
um so that's how that math works supporting that and right with it is the
g703 the g703 is the schedule of values and it's just that it's a it's a
schedule of the value of each item on the project so so you have carpet
ceramic and sheet vinyl so you'd have carpet materials carpet labor ceramic
materials ceramic labor resilient materials resilient labor and then as
you buy your materials and you store them in a uh acceptable spot you know an
acceptable Warehouse that's bonded and insured or at least insured with those
materials listed on your insurance as uh insured in your building
you can bill for what's called stored materials so you could build say for example very often in commercial we buy
all of our materials for a project and then we bill for all of them as they come in so your schedule values would
Bill 100 percent for your carpet materials 100 for your
ceramic materials and maybe you don't have your resigning materials yet so you don't bill for it or if you have half of
them you Bill for half of them you know 50 percent and then your next pay app typically is
just kind of a standard flow you'd be billing for the rest of your resilient materials right now you're 100
but you have all your labor line items that are left to be billed and so as you complete through the project maybe month
that second month that you're able to build because in commercial world you can typically only Bill once a month on
a given date and that's typically in the contract go back to the other podcasts on contracts and uh review that
but at the end of the day the goal for the g703 is so when you
Bill your client your general contractor they can then Bill their uh the owner and show your
schedule of value showing the owner what materials they're paying for
um often you will be asked for either invoices or some proof that you have the
materials on site in a stored bonded or
insured Warehouse um so the idea here is that you can progress bill for some of your materials
or all of your materials and then build your labor as you go so if a job's
um phased out over the next six months or it's going to take six months to do the project you can bill each month
and you know keep the cash flow coming on the following month as you're as your payments come in so
let me see what else do I want to say about the g703
yeah yeah Clarity on on billing uh and exactly
what you're billing so a quick story of a company I started when I was 22 a
flooring company with a partner uh he was doing the office work and I was doing right in the field and managing
all the installation uh we had gotten behind with our our customers from a payment aspect they
hadn't paid us in a long time we're owed a lot of money
um obviously Banks and vendors were barking down our necks and and uh
ultimately me and our accountant went in and started reviewing and found out he
was just sending invoices well with an invoice they're not going to pay you
um they need the g702 and the g703 and that's an AIA the American Institute of
Architects forum hello Daniel hey you're back third time
well maybe third time's a charm I don't know I uh it keeps it keeps crashing so
if it does again we'll we'll just have to post uh we may push
uh this this subject to next week and reshoot this I don't really know 100 to
be honest with you how how well she's going to be able to Patches all together with three different showings but
I just um as I was waiting on you uh you guys wasn't sure if he was gonna be able to
join again but I went ahead and went through kind of the overall uh g702 and g703 it
was kind of going through a story of the first company first flooring company I
started and the fact that my partner at the time had build a bunch of work but
it was just invoiced not on pay applications and once I brought our
accountant in and I kind of took over I started calling all the clients and
asking them you know why money hey you know I showed that you owe us this amount of money and it's 60 days past
due and they're like we've never received a payout from you and then I come to find out he was just
sending uh invoices so the the point here is they're not gonna
you know regular commercial construction where you're dealing with the general contractor they're just not going to pay
you without a pay application uh it's designed to keep track of where the flow
of the project is and what has been built for and what has been paid and what if it's not so I talked to some
Architects that say that they look at pay applications it's going to actually go to the job site and they're like there's no way this is 80 done
yeah it's all based on percentage of completion and uh so I was kind of
giving an example um for your scheduled values it's all on
percentages so let's say you Bill a uh project you got a contract
that's a hundred bucks I kind of went through a similar scenario but
say yours you got a hundred dollar uh contract and you Bill for 20 bucks on
your second payout So you you're billing twenty dollars on
your second payout and you've already built for 50 on your first payout
so in essence you're going to bill for seventy percent of the contract amount you build for 50 already you may have
already been paid for that but it always works off of totals and works back so
if you're you build for 50 the first time you're billing for 20 this time that's 70 percent complete of the
contract amount and that's that's what it's going to show on your schedule values is percent of complete
um like you just said it's an easy way for Architects and general contractors kind of walk the job and say I'm being
billed for 80 complete on my carpet labor line item
but they're not even halfway done so it's an easy way for them to find out quickly or compare quickly
your pay application versus reality
um one other note and this kind of goes back to the uh contracts but most of the
time you can build you can project through the end of the month so if your pay app is due on the 20th you can
project through the end of the month both materials and labor that you believe you're going to have in your
insured Warehouse or installed and you can bill for that amount so
um that's just uh I would caution to be
particularly careful and make sure that you are as accurate as possible
um a lot of we've had plenty of projects they want to come to our warehouse and see the materials or they want to walk
the job after we build and make sure that we've we're not over billing
um obviously contractors in all regards like I don't want to pay
my sub for work that's not complete they don't want to pay us for work it's not complete so it makes a lot of sense
um I'll kick it over to you Daniel do you what's do you have any in other
information insights about the complexities I I kind of lined it out
but yeah I when we when we first started doing it like it's all brand new to me
so uh the one thing that I did was call the accounting department to where I'm
building and it's like how do you guys want this filled out and uh some of the
projects were you know really small they were just one day projects
and they're like just put everything on one line item it's fine but then you get into the more complex
stuff when they're like I want it broken everything broken out by single line item stuff like
so it's it's real particular in who you're working with
yeah I've had them where they actually send a example of the schedule of values
and want even like Freight and stuff broken out which has
always been silly once or twice but for the most part it's
like if you have four different products if you have carpet resilient you know ceramic tile and and epoxy on a
job they're going to want to know sorry on every single one yeah ceramic
materials ceramic labor carpet materials carpet labor resilient materials
resilient labor and um sometimes they can even get more picky than that but it those are more
particular projects I think that I've found where uh maybe a school board's
trying to review it and they want to really micro like I've had to break out
transitions and stuff and most of the time the transitions we just lump in with if it's rubber transitions it's
going in there resilient if it's tile transition that's going in the tile and
don't worry about it but uh we have had them like where's your transition
materials in labor all right I'll break it break it down you got to go redo it yeah
yeah that I just made it a habit since we we're not dealing with like huge
projects that take a ridiculous amount of time so I'll I'll break everything out but I
know once you get into these projects that can last over a couple years those line items start adding up quick
yeah and change orders and all that go on these uh so you know just remember
whatever is on whatever you're going to bill for has to be represented on both forms both on your g703 and then it ties
out with your g702 so the total should be matching
um another note is your g702 or your
payment application has to be notarized so if you don't have a notary uh you
should probably plan on going to your bank every time you Bill that's another thing we have three notaries in our
office so we don't have to deal with that anymore but I remember going to uh Dylan's which is a Kroger grocery store
uh three or four times a month getting pay applications uh notarized now this
is back in the early 2000s but uh yeah you know you gotta have each one has to
be notarized as well so it used to be easier because uh we still go to the bank but I used to be able to just walk
in and be like hey can I get this notarized real quick and I was like since covert note got to make an
appointment wow really yep
um one of us again to become a notary yeah and a spouse like they don't like your
spouse my wife works for us she she's a notary so when when she notarizes if
she's the only notary then rco has to sign the payout because she can't
notarize for me oh so
um well I I will admit I've lost some steam with our crashing and back and
crashing back but from a I feel like I've covered the basics of what a g702
and g703 is and why they're used
um and well you know the purpose behind it because I know I was when I first
started doing them I was like why can't I just send them an invoice well because what percentage everything
has to do with percentages in construction and County what percentage
complete are you and the forms the g702 and O3 show that very
clearly versus say an invoice that may or may not even show the total contract
amount depending on how you have it set up in your you know a time where you we used QuickBooks uh or Peachtree one of
them we use both of them at one point but you know it makes it easier for
everybody to know what's being built for and and uh the percent complete and that
goes right into your work in progress which is a piece of your the whip as
it's called in accounting and um that's a whole nother rapid hole to
go down and uh would probably take a whole hour but uh for simplicity's sake
a whip says of all your projects how much complete how much of the cost have
you incurred and so if you have a hundred dollar job and you had fifty
dollars in cost budgeted or figured as the project
but you only ended up spending half of that well you you have to do a budget adjustment
to make it right otherwise it thinks the whip is gonna say you're only you know 30 complete
not not the because it's all based on your cost uh let me see if I can explain
that easier if you if you build a hundred bucks on that hundred dollar contract
the the construction accounting is only going to let you recognize if you've
only um incurred fifty percent of your cost it's gonna only allow you to recognize
fifty percent of your profit so if you in in indeed save that money then
you do a budget adjustment and it's back to okay I spent all 35 dollars it went
for fifty dollars of expected expense 35 so then you can break it then it breaks
even you you've you've spent all 35 bucks now you can recognize all of your
profit but um it's a way to keep
your accounting accurate from over build or under build scenarios it
works the other way too if you've incurred fifty percent of your cost but you're only billing for you know
a lower level of that say 30 or something well you're under a build and
let you know that but all that's placed together the point is in construction
accounting everything is tied together um and these two most important
documents again the g702 pay application and your g703 scheduled values
those are the most important you got to get them right they got to be accurate that's how you get paid
um so we have separate people that do that like that are really good at making sure that they're accurate
yeah it takes some work to get used to filling those out especially because we still use QuickBooks so we're
we have to do the the payout and then also enter everything into QuickBooks
yeah yeah when you get uh and you knew that
we did that for a long time and got I mean all the way probably up to six million dollars or so before we got a
accounting system that spent out the g70203 for us but if you're filling them
out offline or if you're still working in QuickBooks or you're doing some other uh non
I'd say project costing you know real real good system uh
accounting system for project costs uh then you do it offline you fill out g702
and O3 then if you did it the way I did it you'd always do that first I'd get it accepted then I'd enter in my accounting
system otherwise I was going back in and correcting all of it right
yeah all right well what else we got on pay
apps uh sworn statements Lane releases uh new waivers and uh
go jump in on sworn statements they just want to know everyone that all
of your vendors pretty much and how much you owe them and are they paid and if
not how much you still owe them so
I I think that probably happens different different areas uh ours is
mainly they want Lane waivers and we'll get into that next week when we're talking about how to get paid
um but Lane waivers as a lot of the pay applications want them with it or the
sworn statements that preferred flooring is paid uh up through you know July 31st
2023. and if your pay app is for that pay period Then
you should get through uh a lot of our GCS want the vendors to list their
projects specifically which is where side marks and all that kind of stuff comes in when you're placing uh your
your orders with your vendors but um
yeah it's it's a pain to get to get you got to get these things right and having
that sworn statement or a a waiver of of leaned yes we've only had one project
where they wanted waivers from every single vendor um and typically the sworn statement is
just I fill it out and they just accept it because the sworn statement has been notarized too so if I'm lying that's
yeah that's legally on me yeah yeah those those are a lot nicer than getting
lien waivers because then you're someone else's like
Mercy to get you the lean waiver we've had them take a month because someone's
sick and and especially over covid it was a nightmare to get lean waivers
people were working from home and not working and oh I can't you know someone
would say at our vendor I can't do anything about it only this person can
some can sign Lane waivers like well you're better call them up and get them
I don't know what to tell you I've got to get paid and it's all you guys want me to pay you but these Lane waivers are
a big piece of that so I need you to get those back to me as fast as and
efficiently as possible but it's always a fight it's just it's tough because you
know Distributors used to and manufacturers in new staff to do that back in you know 20 years ago lien
waivers from vendors was not a thing even when I first got into business never had to do it it was just a matter
of show me proof you got my materials basically
and um I think vendors started filing liens when companies uh honest and then gc's
and Architects were like well we got to cover that risk and that's where lien
waivers from every vendor comes in yeah I don't it was a nightmare to get
some of these vendors to actually do it too yeah notes right now guys because
honestly this is this is Daniel's uh uh category for for us right like I got
bits and pieces here but yeah it's um well hug your brother afterwards
because it could be a real pain in the ass to get it I hear about it all the time and yeah
and then getting it paid is a whole nother thing but the first step is getting these these documents in
accurately along with your sworn statements or your
um or your waivers of lean from from your vendors it's almost like because When contractors
um are after year they accept your pay application and then they they send it
send us an email because a lot of stuff is electronic payments right and it's like this is gonna post to your account
here's the lien waiver we'll send the money when we get this back and it's like it's almost like we should start
doing that to almost every payment for our vendor it's like here's your money send me a lien waiver that's not a bad
idea it's not a bad idea it's just like like a whorehouse right here it seems like a
ton of paperwork it is but it's it's a ton of paperwork
that's a good idea Daniel I wonder if we could start just saying here's a check
here's the lien waivers that for projects attached to this check please sign them
and we'll release a check bam
that's not what you get them up front and then file them and then when we eat them we already have them
right then they'll be way quicker to be to get you something signed then
if they already had the money yeah that's most of it right they already have your money for that job and then it
it happens one or two believes you send your lean waivers in with your pay applications
and uh also side note they have a form in most uh it's a separate form
for a lot of the general contractors that have a list of your subs and suppliers and you list the dollar figure
on there and what's remaining to pay to each one of them as well and a lot of times you gotta have Lane waivers from
your subs which is why go Carrera has that as an automatic you know get a lien
release on every single payment so you have them uh
the that form is typically
uh not with your payout but it's when you get a check or they got a check ready for you and they're like hey we
need this filled out and signed so yeah there's there and each GC may have
different insights as what are different rules just remember this it's all about
risk mitigation that's what construction is all about how can
and a lot of our like conversations on this podcast has been
around the troubles that that causes when you're just like how can I mitigate
or minimize the amount of risk that my company takes on I know we're we said we're going to
talk about lien waivers later but Dwayne says as an installer we get asked to
fill out lane waivers before we get paid does that put us at risk of not being legally covered and I think that's where
you got to put in there's numerous types of lien waivers there's conditional and
unconditional right so conditional is what you sign before you get paid it's I waived my rights to
lean when I get this payment yeah unconditional is boom I already got paid
I waived my Lane yeah yeah there's different types of lean waivers a lot of the uh a lot of
the ones that companies will have you sign um you just if you're working with the
GC you really need to make sure you're signing the right one um we have plenty of times how to want
us to sign an unconditional and we refuse until we have a check like I'll come to your office and sign
it and you hand me a check but I'm not signing it and sending it back getting a check and there there was a
when we were subcontracting for for our company they they sent us an unconditional
and they're like here sign this and get us get this back to us and we'll get you a check and we weren't done with the
project yet and it was a full unconditional and I'm like I'm not assigning this
and like she was really upset with me and I said you can be upset all you want
I said but I'm not signing this I said I'll send you a partial conditional I
remember that yeah that's another uh term that is used is partial lean waiver
so you can have conditional partial full traditional final there's a lot of
different types they some of them mean the same thing with different verbiage but essentially you're gonna have to
sign something each time you get a check um and obviously it's going to be either
a partial or a conditional lien waiver uh unless you are done with the job and
100 percent yeah there it's this isn't meant to
scare people away I just know what I went through was he double hockey sticks when I first started trying to figure
this stuff out and I just wanted to provide you know we all
wanted to provide a resource on which you can kind of plug into an episode
watch a little bit of something and learn enough that you at least know what you're getting into this isn't as easy
as just printing off a invoice or you know writing the invoice out on a piece
of paper in most regards some really small General Contractors they may let
you do that kind of stuff on really small you know tenant finish kind of
thing or something but any of your major commercial jobs you're going to have to go through this process so be prepared
make sure you have you know somebody that understands accounting helping you do this I would have never figured it
out on my own uh I've done it for years and and understand it really well now
but when I first started I had to have an accountant come in and like how do I fill these out and I didn't have the
balls to be honest with you then just call my clients say I have no idea how to fill these out you know and and
either did I at first right except for there was a point where I'm just we were
I think we were in a meeting at the chamber and one of the
um it might have been one of the minority meetings where they're trying to get us smaller businesses you know in
there and they're like anytime you have any questions that's what our our
billing department is for like you may think that it's a dumb question
but that's what they're there for it's like they're there to make sure everything is
filled out because we don't want to hold your money yeah I view your money
I wish that would rang true to be honest with you I I see
there are various crap that holds up payments but I I
think in general most people do but you know there's you got to be careful who you work for
um but here's what's getting this right is Paramount to getting paid on time or
getting paid as close to on time as possible you don't want to be the guy holding up
pay apps I'll tell you that they'll just go on without you if you miss that pay app you've got to wait a whole another
month to even turn your bill in I've been through that
right and Dwayne asks if they where they say it and stuff so I'm just going to
print one out real quick and put it on the screen so that way he can see what what our
waiver looks like okay all I keep hearing is done
so I'm going to cover
the job but you can see right at the top partial
conditional because we did not receive the check yet
and then goes through and so as long as you we make it very clear
that like right at the top this is partial partial conditional full conditional
you know essentially you're releasing lean on that dollar figure of payment
yeah so if they don't pay you the next time you can only lean what they did not
pay you not the full contract right that's the idea behind partials and
conditionals so essentially it's all again about risk
management and tracking where the money's at who's been paid what how they've been paid all the information uh
is and you know frankly g702 and O3 are really good forms for that but they are
they they're not once you're used to them I don't see them as complex but it does take a
minute to get used to them because you're always working from a total like if you have a hundred thousand dollar
job and you build four times on that it feels weird to put total completed
and stored to date when all I want to build is another 10 grand
but I got to put 100 you know 100 000 job maybe on eighty thousand dollars then eight thousand of that's retainage
then I built you know 70 000 previously leaving me my ten
thousand dollars as this period payment so it's working it's always working off
the total with percentages so it can be confusing but once you get used to it it's not it's not really that
complicated it's like uh right it's like balancing a physical checkbook the dollars and cents and then the percentage of the project being done
it's like just try to break it down into dummy terms for people like me um and I almost wonder like uh
so like if I purchase a house why why can't we use these other these programs like DocuSign but they don't have
anything like that instead of getting an ordery um like what is the why can't it be
utilized do they have something that can be utilized like that it's all red tape more than anything I
mean there are plenty of uh companies that you use DocuSign for their lien
releases um I wouldn't say
a lot at least from in our area but some do but never on the big government work
or really like bigger commercial work it stays in that older kind of methods
they want to sign they want to notarized in the paperwork you know they
there's some that you have to have wedding you cannot email it like there's
stuff like that yeah yeah I remember that yeah
still with notaries it's like if if they don't have this stamp and everything
yeah so I don't want to scare everybody away but I didn't like everybody to
understand what you'd be getting into and I know we didn't go through and show what they actually look like but this is
702. so it is like the total on there and
then the change orders all the way down and then
the schedule of values 703 and this was one of one of the ones that
wanted every single line item in there yeah you do trying to block the light
yeah so it's like but as you can see like right there
that's the percentage lines yeah so they they want to know percentage on every
single line item yeah that's a very good example thanks
for showing that because it's it's a matter of
uh again not to beat a dead horse here but it's their way of risk management and
um the fact is is if they don't know how much they've built you built them for
previously and the retainage piece all that mixed in uh but if they don't know
what you've built for previously and they're going to go dig it up on another document what they're trying to do is
streamline it and these I you know I gotta say again g702 and O3 both are
pretty streamlined they work together so if you've got an accounting system that will spit them out Kudos because it does
make life a lot easier our billing department just says what percentage of they'll send us their schedule values
and ask each pm to put the percentage of complete on each line item and then they
they just fill that amount and it spits out the g702 NO3 automatically that's
structure that's the system we use but there's plenty of others that do the same thing so
how do you guys gauge your percentage of um project complete is it material used or
do you guys have uh use your takeoff program to be exact it's a general question you know that
we will bill you know power much material we got in and it's you know if
we had 50 000 to put lvt and we only got 25 we're going to build 50 on the
material line item um you know typically the kind of
um schedule for this kind of thing is you know if you've got a larger project you're probably going to be billing for
your early materials first you know your ceramic material might be your first
billing only then your second billing may have a mix of ceramic labor and your
resilient materials finally came in so maybe you Bill 100 on your materials uh
for ceramic and then you know 100 on resilient but only 10 percent of your
ceramic labor and then the next month it comes in and you do the same thing but it's maybe you
got the rest of your materials in now you're Building 100 on all materials and
you know 75 on your ceramic labor and 20 on your resilient
that's the only way you can stay and get progress payments and keep track of what's being paid and where it gets
really confusing even on a spreadsheet if you just do that so I understand the need for yeah a system like this but you
just explained it really well on why the system is needed because there's no guesswork at the end is really what it
is you're tracking everything progressively and small idea it'll be easier but larger ones whoo yeah ideally
you want to Bill them and they understand what you're billing and they process your payment but or process your
pay application but there's plenty of times when you know they're like
we've had a few times where they're like well your billing is 100 on your materials and uh
you don't have any installed so we're not gonna that's just materials some you
know like some GCS want us to put our only build in for materials as they're
put in place in different parts of the nation that's a requirement where it's
in place materials and not stored materials so you can't even build for all your materials until you put them in
place that's crazy I won't do work in those areas because what happens if someone
steals it you'll go broke dude like on a big job you imagine that that's why it's
real nice uh to not be on those super huge projects like that so we're we're still
um to the size where it's a normal project for us is you know
hundred thousand dollars ish and you think man that's a that's a huge project but really that's only like three weeks
of work if that right yeah still a good size project but
you know done right you can do it you want to pay period right that's what I mean like it's either one or two two of
them and that's it it's not like these huge jobs where it's like every single month for two years you're just
trying to nibble away at it yeah yeah I I've got about you know I've got a mix
of jobs but we've got several of those were hospitals or big Schools they're
building it and they're turning over you know the clinic of the hospital first
and so you got to get that done but then then the or then whatever or the
emergency department they're building these phases and building it out I think the most pay apps I've had is 13
or 14. months um
Maybe I should say 13 or 14 pay apps but there's months we didn't build anything
so it you know spanned across several couple two or three years we've had jobs
and they're a pain and if you try to go back to one that you build and the last
time you build it because you know you finished the first area and the other area is not ready for you for another
three months and you go back those those forms really help you kind of stay we do
have one that's like that right now and it's a hospital because the other day he
was like you should go for this and I'm like but we can't close everything out
yeah because we still got another phase that they keep on pushing back and it's been over a year I think
yeah yeah and it's just one of those things like I really just want to get that off of my board like it's been
hovering there but I know and it's like with the material they're they're like
oh yeah there's nowhere to store it on site or um it was I don't want to store it on site
because there's like four or five different construction companies in there and they just start taking
whatever is in the storage so I'm like I gotta put it somewhere they're like you know what we have an off-site storage
just bring it over there because I'm not whole I don't want to hold on to this for two years until you guys decide it's
ready to go yeah we we have uh some projects still
you know the storage of material is a big thing make sure your Warehouse is either insured for those materials and a
lot of times they make you list it on your like their Project Specific in the
amount that of the the value of their materials
um again risk management they want to know if your building burns down that their materials are covered in that
right catastrophe so all right well I think we've beat these two forms up and the subsequent
forms that come across and sorry for everybody that we had some technical
difficulties I should I shouldn't say we uh Zoom just crashing uh we finally got
it up and going so we'll Pace this together as best we can to give you the best episode we can on the GoPro Youtube
channel otherwise uh you may get to watch some bloopers on other other areas
so I I started doing something else right away and they got a text we're trying it again I'm like oh we figured
I'd give it a third shot and if it didn't work then we would reshoot but uh hopefully everybody got some some good
Insight on just what what these forms are why they're
required and don't try to fight the system I also did that I was a jerk and I was like you guys owe me money and you
know it just pay the invoice well and they're like look at look at the
contract it says that you're supposed to be on these phones very clearly Mr Stewart exactly what you're supposed to
do you don't understand something it is frustrating when you just don't understand it because it's real easy
like you owe me is that here you owe me what are these for yeah
you can't deny you have carpet in the building that did not have carpet before you didn't magically happen just pay me
but so don't try to buff the system just follow the rules uh as always if you if
anybody has questions about how to look at a g70203 reach out to one of the
three of us we're happy to you know um help walk you through it
um any of the if anyone needs it actually I actually have it in a Excel
form so yeah so if you need one hit Daniel up because he's got it in Excel which makes
uh both forms much easier when they automatically calculate for you and
you're not sitting there writing it down doing the math so no and then when I first got the Excel
version it was about five or eight years after we started
what that was a big upgrade right there I I actually wrote it myself because I
couldn't find one and I didn't want to pay for one because let's just say that I didn't want to pay for it you can't buy them but we our
family has a really big problem with that like he figured stuff out in the technology side that he doesn't want to pay for and
I just try to figure it out with my hands and tools and I don't pay for that so I'm just gonna learn how to fix it I'm gonna learn how to build it
well you get there in the end so reach out to Daniel if you uh would
like to uh get an Excel version um and then just reach out if you have
any questions with that gentlemen we'll break this huddle and we'll see you next week
sounds good thank you