The Huddle - Episode 93 - Mental Health; The Importance of Taking Care of Your Mind

Today the guys delve into why prioritizing mental health has never been more critical with special guest Thomas Jachulski, LMSW (https://speakeasygr.com). In today's fast-paced world, burnout is becoming increasingly common, underscoring the necessity of taking breaks for personal and family time. We explore the transformative shift in perception towards seeking professional help; talking to a therapist is now viewed as a strength, not a stigma. This episode highlights the available support systems designed to navigate through challenging periods, emphasizing that it's possible to emerge stronger and healthier. Join us as we discuss the vital steps to safeguarding your mental well-being in these demanding times.

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The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
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what's up team welcome to the Huddle we your we uh weekly playbook for not only

strategizing on the game but changing it from mastering the fundamentals of the craft to distinguishing ourselves in the

marketplace and all the challenges that come with that we're here to give an installer the give the installer a voice

and ensure that you're equipped with everything you need let's band together and create a new Legacy in flooring this

is where you belong all right team what's up guys what's going

on so we have a uh special guest to today uh Thomas and uh Thomas we're

going to get to some really deep topics today and uh I've been looking forward

to this podcast you know this is about surrounding mental health and the importance of caring for yourself caring

for uh being aware of what emotions you have and and all the stuff that we deal

with um I thought I'd start by uh pointing out maybe a couple of uh stats

um just things that are uh maybe surprising to you um but one of which

was surprising to me when I discovered it is that um com you know construction

is in the top tier uh you know next to mining for the highest suicide rate and

uh I'd love to get your perspective on that and kind of talk about some of these things we're in construction in

the flooring industry whether we're in residential or commercial um and it it struck me that

there's something around the I'd love to get your feedback but

like there's something around the perception of being a construction worker as though it's a second rate type

of of uh career or something and we promote on the Huddle like this is a

great career it's provided me and my friends here uh a great life for our families and uh the the ability to meet

new people and uh discover new things but it's also very very challenging so

without further Ado I'd like to introduce Thomas and I will not butcher your last name I'll let you say that

Thomas uh welcome to the to the Huddle and uh we're happy to have you here could you

tell us a little bit about yourself yeah um well believe it or not

my name is Thomas yahi that's how you say it yski yep um so I've been working in

mental health for approaching 10 years now since graduating from Grand Valley State University um I currently work at

a private practice group called Speak Easy mental wealth which is also in Grand Rapids um right now I work doing

individual therapy oneon-one with a variety of different demographics I work a lot of um work with a lot of people

dealing with just general anxiety and depression to autism spectrum disorders

ADHD a growing number of diagnosed neurod Divergent folks um OCD um and a

lot of different other disorders um previously I used to work at Pine

Christian Mental Health Services where I would deal with a lot more higher Acuity patients so that's you know people have

who have a higher likelihood of being hospitalized or need more intensive treatment programs um and I've also

worked in worked in substance abuse counseling too so I've kind of bounced around in a lot of different strata of

the mental health field what I'm sure you guys have some

some you know experience with this as well but you know I feel like in our industry one of the things that

plagues um a lot of our users uh or a lot of our I'm sorry a lot

of our community is um substance abuse that you just

mentioned um and it's so hard to get away from drug and alcohol

addiction um I've I've had good friends I've got family it's just what what do

you guys in the mental health uh Community do you guys have a a pulse

on what causes people to gravitate towards that is it just a I mean it's

easy to say It's A coping mechanism but what how do you get out of these things

what what kind of advice can you give you know the the audience and and us on

dealing with friends or family that are are struggling or even personally if we're struggling ourselves with this

kind of thing well that that's an issue that's really close to my heart I have many

personal friends that have both worked in your industry and still do and have

had very significant severe I I I hesitate to use that word because any any situation can be significant but

what I'm talking about is chemical dependence on things like heroin definitely alcohol and other substances

too um I I'm watching it happen right now and I'm seeing people who have come

come out on the other side um gotten clean gotten healthy and are successful

um they did not have to get out of this field to get be successful it's not the

work itself as far as the work itself what I understand and as somebody who's you know I can only say I've dabbled

I've done some odd jobs and helped out in things things but for people who do it professionally um some of the

pitfalls I see are you know if they're treating this kind of like an entry level or stepping stone job they're kind

of itinerant as it is and that kind of you know the type of Lifestyle they leave tends to lend itself to be able to

do that um what H I've seen helps is you

need to have a group of people who are there to support you whether that's

joining a 12-step program like a a or na um again not all folks are of religious

bent but a lot of people find a lot of help and support in their Church groups um there's lots of other different types

of groups of different um value sets and you know areas that can be of support

but um it it's connection with other people isolation and feeling like you're

alone and on your own and there's no way out of that I think is one of the biggest factors that contributes to people feeling like they need to fill

that void with something else would you say that um that

um I don't want to put words in your mouth but it almost sounded like not having pride in something that you do

eight to 10 hours a day if we sleep eight eight hours a day and then we work 8 to 10 not having a sense of pride in

that is a is like a starting almost like a a ignition to all

this and then we get isolated and we we continue down that path and some some of the comments have said you know the

physically demanding nature of our of our of our work uh leads to injury which

leads to you know sometimes getting on opioids or or something of that nature

um is that accurate is it is it is it important how important I should say let

me just ask how important is it would you say for uh people to find

pride in in what they do we have was saying that like I I don't I don't look

for enthusiasm in my work I bring my enthusiasm to my work that's that's one of the things we say at one of my

companies it's like you know anyway go ahead I I'm I don't want to ramble

but too [Laughter] late no that sounds 100% spot on because

I mean having a physically demanding job I mean people try to find ways to cope

with it and not everyone is trying to take care of their physical health I mean some people are just really

exhausted from their life situations and the physical aspect of their work that you know they get home and they just

want to decompress and go someplace else other than where they just were um as

far as having a sense of pride in your work I think that has that's a key component to being successful in any

business because if you're just doing some sort of what you think is some sort of menial work for somebody else's dream

and you don't feel like you're building your own dream in any way and maybe your values don't fully match the goal of

that organization you know you're not in it to win it in that sense so you're just kind of passing the time and giving

of your time and your talent and your you know your physical energy and if you don't feel like you're getting enough

back from that then I can see how that would also contribute to feeling kind of isolated and slow SL becoming depleted

and heading towards burnout you know I got something to add to what you just said there too and and this is you know

from the outside looking in is as far as the the values matching it's um and you

know from experience from start to where I am now is it's not necessarily my values didn't

match who I worked for or who I worked with it was that um I didn't want them

to match right like I when I when I look I was an alcoholic when I was

younger I was really mad at one point to the point where I woke up in the morning one day

and my truck was like I had to stop like it was still running my foot was on the brake and I was in drive and then uh but

the it was who I surrounded myself with I wanted to go and do that I wanted to go and have fun I wanted to to have that

problem right because it didn't really cause a problem so when I when I put

myself around people who didn't share the same views and didn't want to have the same fun I didn't want to be around

them they weren't they weren't my people they weren't my crowd um and that's a

that's a hard reality too like you have someone that comes and works with us and we're we're trying to push them to to

success and and you know not that we can only make suggestions right

like hey I quit doing this I have a friend who quit doing that I have a cousin who quit doing that uh or a parent and they found success after this

we can only make suggestions like that we can't control um what people view as

their values or their core values um how how do we how do you approach that without

overstepping I think that's a good question because I mean that's something that I have to deal with is you know I'm

I'm here to you know provide I guess whatever knowledge I have and some level of guidance but I'm not here to push

somebody in such a way that I'm just like so boxing for what you need to do because that doesn't stick when it comes

to me somebody was doing that to me how would I feel I'd be like that's cool man I mean but how like you know you need to

feel some level of connection and what you know when I was talking about some people when we were talking earlier some

people came to mind and you know they used I knew these were good friends good people good-hearted people that want

well for others but when they were put in those kind of situations around other people who were you know quote unquote

on the right path they felt isolated within those groups it's like you'd

bring that guy to a church group and he'd feel out of place around all these other people he felt like he couldn't relate to you know a person who doesn't

typically have especially people who don't often make a lot of social

connections they don't they hear I need to join a group and that's like the they want to run the other way I don't want

to be in group therapy I don't want to go to church I don't believe in that stuff I don't want to go to AA that

stuff's for I don't know what you know it's like it we we have a hard time I

think matching our identity to the group and we grab on to that so much so that we're not willing to say hey maybe I'll

benefit from that even if I'm not like 100% school spirit for that team or group you know yeah I think there's a

huge benefit going maybe I should just try that out even if I don't feel like those are my people but maybe I can find

somebody there who I can you know connect with or or maybe I'll at least try this out for a little bit and see

where it Tak yeah get get comfortable or yeah be comfortable getting uncomfortable and

and that's the same thing right like maybe that goes back to the the old school middle school high school

mentality when you're not part of a group so you don't approach it in that manner and when you do get surrounded by

people like that you're a little out of your element so you don't speak as comfortably as you as you normally would

I don't know I'm just trying to overanalyze that and and I would say that

maybe I've been like that at some point but maybe that's maybe that's the the driving force be behind a lot of people

not um willing to open up or or or seek that type of

assistance well it certainly sounds like isolation is about the

worst like it's like fuel on the fire once you have a problem uh of any

sort so at being I can only imagine it takes a lot

of courage to step out there and um try to connect with people when you're fing

the loneliest already and you're you already have this mechanism where I mean I I was

I quit drinking about seven years ago and I I I drank like nuts um and I liked

it it was awesome but it was terrible for me and it was terrible for my mental

well-being I I didn't hold self in high regard but the truth is is that um you

know without finding I wasn't isolated I never isolated myself and that sounds

like um I've got a picture of a family member who I love very dearly but is fighting with this kind of thing

and it's at its worst when they lock themselves in their um space and don't

leave and four days later emerge um

guilt written and finally wanting help it's like they we always get to a point where we where

we know we don't have another way but man would it be awesome to try to um

find a way to that spot without having to go through the hell it's almost like

um having to get hit rock bottom as I've always heard

um if there's a way to get people to not have to hit rock bottom because it's really hard to

watch and I think um like we I talk a lot about Simon cynic right and there was a a video that I just watched of his

the other day and it said that you know one of his friends was really down and he was like like why didn't you reach

out to me and they were like I did you know several times and he he looked back through his text and all they said was

hey do you want to come over he's like why why didn't you just tell me that you were having issues right and it's like sometimes that's all it takes is is

maybe not them telling them telling you that they they have an issue like that it's you actually being like you know

what I'm not doing anything let me just go over there and and that that was like he said

all it takes is like eight minutes right so they they came up with a a code where he said any time one of them is feeling

like that it's like they just text each other hey do you have eight minutes that way they can spend that time and kind of

unwind with each other you know and something I just thought of when you were saying that um

actually all three of you I feel like you know the re the reality is a person

does want to have to change for themselves but I feel like our society puts the onus on the individual so

heavily um and doesn't do enough self-reflection of what the culture is

giving and providing for these people and putting them in so yes I'm a big

believer in personal responsibility but you know what you just said I think why

aren't we reaching out to people as much you know why why aren't we I feel like a

lot of people feel like they're just kind of on their own and I think maybe some of it has to do with the culture

developed by social media in general we're supposed to be more connected but it allows people to just you know have

this device as like a pacifier in front of them and they they something to hide

behind yeah I call it like a digital fail you you basically just have this and this is now your avatar in the world

and you know we can do that that's cool we can do that but I think we still need to have real organic meaningful

relationships in opportunities to build them that's a great uh point that you

know as a society like we're you know we used to really take

care of one another back in the olden days like we you know kids were raised

by tribes and like there were tribes of people and and uh as you said with

social media we seem more disconnected than connected but does kind of bring the light like you know just um if

somebody reaches out they're probably uh you know void of a code word uh maybe

don't um uh ignore that that could be a call

for for help um you know I guess somebody says walking down the street are you gonna ignore them like go hey

and then walk away not talk to them if it's your friend no you stop and have a conversation with them that wouldn't

happen in real life it's just we get to ignore these little blips of information and text it's very that's interesting

right and like you said you know you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable because for the longest time I was like introvert I didn't want

to talk to anyone and then just um I wasn't on the podcast last week because my family were and I were in Mexico he

was being an introvert he didn't want to talk to us and uh on the plane ride back

um I was talking to one of the guys and my niece looked back at me she was like do you know him I said I was sitting

next to him like just the conversation on the plane you know it it seemed like we've known each other for a while and T

was like oh he makes friends all the time on airplanes now yeah me too because I want the Elbow Room so I got

to befriend the person next to me so that way they oh you're a nice guy you can have the

handle you slly devil you yeah no that's interesting you know the the um this

whole concept almost everything keeps going back in my mind like it's it goes

back to not isolating yourself and not being by your by yourself with your own

thoughts and your own pain and we we all do have like uh tough days we have tough

weeks even but when we let uh friend of mine um I was in his business group ed

mylet talks about letting a moment turn into a like your personality you know

like somebody says something mean to you and all of the sudden you I identifies

that or you internalize that and then before you know it you're that turns into your new personality whether

somebody told you at one time Daniel that you're an introvert and you you adopted that or if you actually were

just born that way I mean seriously at the end of the day it's it's when we

constrict away from uh our human nature which is to be you know we're I think

social beings and and and need interaction with other people it's one of the things I love about the podcast I

get to see these guys every week and uh sometimes we don't talk except for on this podcast and so I know you know

being connected that way is is kind of special um outside of

um you know the the substance abuse and addiction um and and just to reiterate

there it it is a lot of information you've provided but

you know support groups connection with others and the fact that we just don't

take if we're not taking pride in what we do or bringing our our happiness with us to our workplace uh and I would

recommend people if they're that unhappy like find find another career even

though I want you in floring uh you know it's not worth your mental uh well-being but some of my um darkest days have been

when I'm just not taking care of myself physically and I'm not I'm not waking up

with any intention I'm just going through the day and taking the whatever

crap gets dropped on me throughout that day is there anything in your opinion to

like this attitude of gratitude as they

say yeah I think it's just an absolute necessary component of being a human I

think the fact that we have the capacity to do something like that is amazing you know but it's I think it's a necessary

reframe because you know when we're going through things like depression or just like monotonous you know life

cycles that seem to kind of be repetitive and we're you know we're getting maybe bored of what we're doing

even though we kind we mostly like it it's supporting us whatever you know and therapists go through that too every I

think lots of fields go through that I don't think any field is immune to it but just

um remembering and make really bringing into balance the idea that there are

ideas and thoughts you have that don't support how you're feeling right now that are facts also it's just when

you're in that mindset it's like you're hyperfocused to only hear the negative it's like it's like when you feel all

you hear on the news is bad news you know well I mean there's some good things there but they're not either not

reporting them or they just like they sound like blips on the radar because you know the negativity is almost like

it only takes on this quality of its own sensationalism so I mean don't get me

wrong I'm not trying to say there aren't people in situations where no your situation is bad like what you're

feeling is real you know you're feeling that for a reason but you know you do

have to look at what is the whole situation if in fact there's way more problematic with you know your the inner

workings of your career or you know what's going on in your family Dynamic how much time you have to take care of

yourself that is non-existent you need to start making some changes and finding incremental feasible changes where you

can you know I would never ask somebody you know you know well you just need to

have a complete upheaval of everything you do and reinvent your whole life I mean most people don't need to do that I

mean there's other ways to Pivot and there's probably other things you can do to support your yourself and your um

your mental health and your emotional health that would allow you to keep doing what you're doing because you know

I had one friend the other day who's you know he was telling me that his his job is just wearing on him he's feeling

depressed you know for lack of a better term it's just kind of soul sucking you know he got a couple other things right

um together in his life and you know a week later he was talking about staying there even longer with other

opportunities and I said what's the wait you you were ready to run the other way

100 miles an hour and now this week you're all right you know and I think part of it was that he you know the

other things going on in our lives like relationship stress there's family stuff that can change the lens at which we're

looking at our work that we do too so some days we just got that energy we're in a good mood we're all happy doing the

work and then other days we just don't it's just not the day and we wish we would have stayed in bed but you know I

think you know if you're feeling that long term then it would behoove you to start taking

some steps towards seeing what you can do about it whether that is reaching out and you know getting yourself set up

with a therapist or counselor um and a lot of times doing that can get you

resources and direction to the other things you need to if you can't if you're having difficulty finding them on

your own in your own life because there's some people who still have a lot of supports in their life but they're

still dealing with those ISS mental health issues like they got all the other stuff they got the whole package

but internally they're still not feeling right so there's probably more to work through you know whether that's trauma

or other issues that are kind of below the surface yeah I totally get that I

because you know myself uh it's it's more socially accepted to to talk to

someone these days which is amazing because that's what needs to happen right you look at before and everyone's

like oh you're talking to someone what's going on with you but now it's like yeah everyone should be really be talking to

someone um I mean a couple years ago I was in it where I I told this guy right

here that I didn't want to be his business partner anymore and I didn't want to be in flooring anymore and I

told my wife I was like I don't want to be with you and it's like it wasn't until I took a step back and actually

realized that I needed to talk to someone to to figure out what I had going on in my life it wasn't anyone

else because our family's a great support system I can talk to you know my

brother about anything I can give my mom a call like everyone is there it's just

it wasn't the person that I needed to talk to I just had to work on it not not

myself but you know with a professional and sometimes that's what you have to do you have to reach out man I I didn't

realize how much I needed it until I actually did it and I've been pretty pretty good ever since and one of the

biggest takeaways especially lately was I I told my wife I said I can actually learn a lot from my daughter um we were

at over near over near Detroit you know a few a few weeks ago a month ago something like that and my truck broke

down wouldn't start so I had to get you know try and fight for a rental vehicle and all this stuff and you know me and

my wife are trying to do all this stuff she's getting the vehicle to and then we go to a restaurant and it's a a

Mongolian Barbecue my daughter got to you know watch them cook her food and stuff and she she's just looked at us

she's said this is the best day and I said you know what we can learn a lot from

you I was gonna say oh go go ahead I was going to say

you could have called up my parents they live over there they could have got you guys a ride her dad was like she called her dad

and he was like I'm I'm heading my down there if you guys don't get a rental car I'll be down there but if you do just

call me back and we ended up getting the last rental car that the last open rental car place

had that's my wife my wife is listening right now here she goes so Thomas I have a question um

piggybacking off of what Daniel had just said um for individuals who might find it hard to reach out

or who might that internally they do have in shoe what are

some what are some ways that someone can reach out for assistance for help

without broadcasting it so so that way they can kind of keep it under wraps um

you know because it's still a good starting point um to to reach out for help what are some some good ways to do

that or go about that okay well um I know that personally

if I'm in crisis I'm not I'm typically not going to spend you know 30 40

minutes trying to find a therapist online and get scheduled two weeks out or whatever it is you know and there's

online platforms and things like that too but what I would say is and this is

It's because I've actually worked in this area to you know we're here in Grand Rapids we are very um support and

mental health program Rich relative to a lot of other areas of the country and a lot of other cities especially in our

area here um I would say you can reach out to your local Community Mental Health um they call it a CMH they all

have different um organizations within their um various counties and typically

they have you know a heline you can call and start getting start talking with somebody immediately and eventually get

connected you know you know within a short period of time actually to some sort of mental health professional or

program nearby that fits with what you're doing um and we have a couple

really great organizations in Grand Rapids where you can actually go for Mental Health Urgent Care um I know when

I was working at Pine Rest and I know they still have that program um you can show up there if you're in crisis and

talk with a counselor immediately and they'll you know walking through those doors doesn't mean that you need to get

you know pack your bags and be gone you know for a week in an impatient program

it could just mean that you need to talk with somebody and then they'll get you set up with Services you know um and

there's a lot of other you know ways to access individual mental health but I

think in those moments like like you said you're trying to keep this you know this information away from

folks that you don't want to have that information you know but you know again

part of getting better I think is being able to talk about those things with your supports in your life too but I

know that some people aren't at that point yet they're at the point where you know it's scary I don't want to I don't

want to have this idea that there might be something wrong with me in a mental way out with my family my friends my you

know my job what is that going to mean are people going to look at me differently you know is does it does it

risk me getting fired will it prevent me from getting jobs Etc all that stuff so

mental health professionals have to follow confidentiality policies it's

it's the it's the law it's the policy um what you talk about with them stays with

them um aside from having to report something like child abuse or if you

know you're a danger to yourself or other people and they need to get you know additional help involved what you

talk about is your business with that professional so you know every County

should have a community mental Healthline and they usually have access to other mental health agencies in the

area and they can help you decide if you're going to need to do something immediately or if you're in a place

where you just need to start seeing a therapist and it's something you can do within the next week or so a lot of a

lot of people uh I think they don't know what's wrong you

know and they just need to talk and that's scary to not know why you're having these feelings and and a lot of

it um you know I've at least for me like

my personality I've been the most miserable when I'm comparing myself to others like literally that's been the uh

one of the igniters for me going into a depressive moment or uh you know even a

few days or being just this overall feeling of unhappiness is and it's so

easy to do with social media where you're comparing your life to this fabricated life online and you know it

is but it's it's just this innate like automatic thing I try to stay off of it

of social media unless I'm using it as a tool for uh you know posting for my

businesses or something um or doing some research or things like that but as a I

used to you know be fairly active on their uh the different platforms and watch but that I was really pretty

miserable and I found you know um that comparing myself and where I'm at in my

life to someone else or something like that is that that's a dangerous uh slope

for me at least at least people like me and I I I don't know if that's just a me thing or if that's uh across the board

but when I start anytime I compare myself to someone else and don't find just a gratitude that I have a great a a

wonderful wife and a a a a a really spectacular life at the end of

the day in my opinion and that's the only thing that matters someone else doesn't need to think that my life is

great but I feel like my life is great and um yeah anyway that danger I just

wrote down one of my notes was the the danger of comparing yourself to

others you know it's funny you say that Paul is a couple of my good friends uh over the past few years have actually

taken a break from social media because things weren't going well at home so

they eliminated that as part of the Cause right because you getting fed all of this propaganda and all of this uh

false sense of uh reality or being of what you're supposed to be what you can

aspire to what you should aspire to and they got rid of that and they were probably the happiest they've ever been

um um and it also put them in a position they actually reached out to people via phone call via text hey what are you

doing this weekend hey I'm gonna come over it's not hey can I come overs hey I'm going to come over I don't have anything to do um yeah and and that

would promote people being surrounding yourself with with people actually helps a lot too I mean the right people right

it's got to be your cow your crowd your people um but start of the social media thing um I like to go to Tik Tock shop

and see what they're selling just so I can be like ah I really that's really cool but I'm not gonna buy that and and then there's

me I actually buy that I just the

um how much of that Thomas is like from a chemical I don't I don't know how how

deep you get into this but like that dopamine hit that we all like get from

being on social media and almost you know I've watched you know some

um YouTube videos like about mental

health and over overstimulation of dopamine and things like that being a

one of the concerns with so much social media is that you get that immediate dopamine hit it's almost like a drug

itself yeah well I mean we we we have a

limited amount of you know dopamine that we can absorb you know in our neurons in

any given time and you know there comes a point where you know when you've been

doing something for example that's been really fun for like a long time there comes a point where you feel like a

little bit cashed out right where it's like it stops feeling as good it's not as exciting it you know and you kind of

go okay I need to go do something else well if we're getting all these little

micro dopamine hits from every single little message stimulus exciting possible on our devices shows we're

watching all the screens we're watching all day long there comes a point where we are a little bit tapped out and when

we're doing that day in day out every day and we're just you know getting ourselves to this point where we don't

even notice it happening anymore you know there is kind of that level of you

know when when you when a stimulus stops having the same effect in Psychology it's called Extinction so it's like when

you dip your toe in a pool of water you know it's cold at first and eventually you get used to it that getting used to

it you also get used to that dopamine hit and then that need for it and then

eventually you do need more of it I mean it's a chemical in your brain that has so many different functions but one of

them is feeling happy um and when you're just triggering that over and over and

over again unnaturally for extended periods of time makes sense why people are getting depressed and finding other

ways to try to make that happen artificially so I really liked what you said you know use this as a tool this is

not your reality this is a way to interact with reality you know it shouldn't be the reality and I think if

you if we start balancing that a little bit more we're going to be in a healthier

Place well I know you have to jump off here in a couple of minutes Thomas I thought um would you you know to the the

bulk of our audiences um guys and and gals out there working uh installing

floors on a daily basis some of them own their own shops and are responsible for other people and there's these various

layers of pressure and daily pressure can you close out with some po like

maybe they're not super depressed but can you close out with some you know

real actionable items on how to deal with that daily pressure of work life

family and um I think that can help us I I would love to hear you know the

positive side how can we get ahead of this thing yeah um I I think you know it

doesn't have to be in its like most things it doesn't have to be in its worst state or most severe state for you

to have to do to do something about it you know you don't have to be you know in the most severe clinical depression

to reach out and you know set yourself up with someone you can talk to it's

once you start doing it it's not not as weird or as scary as people think it is it's a very normal thing it's a very

health building a therapeutic relationship is very healthy um you know

I think finding your version of movement physical exercise something you can do

that naturally causes your body and your brain to release those healthy hormones

and neurotransmitters you got to find your version some people aren't going to go to the gym some people are wrecked

after day of work and they don't really want to do a whole lot of movement any more but you know going and doing some

sort of walking or some sort of light um low impact movement if not you know some

sort of exercise is very helpful um I think we do need to have some sort

of a group or activity or something we do outside of just work and family

pressure too you know I know we feel like we might not have that in our schedule but I think you'd be surprised

what you can fit into schedule even at least an hour a week maybe if you can find an hour a week to do something

different that can have a huge impact and if that happens to be with healthy people who are the types of people

you're trying to Aspire to be like who live you know balanced and fulfilling lives some of that stuff tends to rub

off into your life we need we need more mentors we need more models for what we want to be like we need other we need

people in our Social Circles and friend groups to challenge us a little bit to make us feel a little uncomfortable like

o wow that's really cool what they're doing I don't know if that's something I could do but maybe I could try that you know we we need that healthy pressure

from these from the things in our life so those are the kind of things that are

going to start you know budging those folks into a healthier Zone where they

could maybe have maybe they can see how they can get out of the you know mundane

repetitive depressing you know draining you know experiences and start to see

that there's something on the other side of that yeah and if you're one of the other people that are not necessarily uh

you know struggling with that be that be that other person be that person in the group yeah

be that positive influence for someone else we were talking about social media and stuff and there's a group on

Facebook called mind and body for the flooring trade started by Andy MC Williams and Nate Hall I mean that's a

great Community where we can you know start talking about things like that and I think as a as a any trade in general

we have to start realizing that we always preach we we say all the time have a professional do it you know I'm a

professional you're not so I should be doing it not you and we kind of have to look at that with our mind too like

we're not professionals to to be dealing with the mind there's guys out there that are trained for it you know let's

let's start talking to them and and fixing ourselves you got to talk to the

professional yeah my job is to help people find that and help them get on a

path to be able to do this themselves you know because that's really what it needs to end up in is people finding

their own way to you know help themselves heal yeah well I want to give

you a uh special thank you for joining us today it's such a important topic in

in general um we toss your QR code up here for uh Speak Easy yes and um

hopefully people will uh take advantage of that in in your area and I I will uh

sign off with the fact that you know we all need someone to talk to I I uh I

struggled a lot in the past with well why didn't you know a hundred years ago

people didn't need therapists and blah well it's a lot different world we have a it's so much faster we're so much more

on demand like if you don't get if someone texts you and you don't text

them back in five seconds it's like you know so there's all this demand and there's no wonder we need mental uh

health or we need I mental health we need support in our mental health we need other people and so I applaud you

for getting into that industry and uh all the work and it was interesting to get to know all the different fields you

went you've been through uh particularly I wish you had more time too yeah yeah

I'd love to talk more in the future this was a great opportunity well we'll definitely have you back this

was this was excellent and um having three adopted children of my own and watching them go through foster care and

and different scenarios there's there's uh I got a special heart for that kind of thing so again thanks for all the the

work you do I know it's your job but you must love it and uh it came out in this podcast so Thomas special thank you guys

got anything to say Thomas thank for joining us Thomas appreciate appreciate it man appreciate it as well thank you

well we'll be in touch Thomas because uh we're going to probably uh we're trying to do a uh top a similar topic um around

taking care of yourself uh at least a couple times a year two to three times a year so we'd love to have you back on

and again thank you and enjoy the rest of your day sir you as well all right take care guys thank you

guys well I hope you guys uh enjoyed that uh conversation

um with Thomas and you guys um still

there I think he you got there you go there he goes I hope

you enjoyed the uh conversation there with with Thomas and they he provided a

lot of stuff um I just wanted to he had to go a little bit early but I thought

just recapping what he said that last uh few moments he says and I'll paraphrase but you know be

proactive in finding help don't wait till you're in crisis mode uh you know

we all need it that's one thing I struggled with in the past is the fact that um we we do all need it and uh I

always wonder well like like I said to him a 100 years ago people didn't need it well 100 years ago people didn't have

uh podcast and iPhones and Androids and people a lot l compar

and just all these demands on you so there's no wonder that we're a little bit different of a of a society and need

that support uh he said find ways to be de I I paraphrase this but it sounded

like to me he was saying find ways to be decisive in your exercise like we have

physically challenging jobs a lot of times and the thought of exercising after that

is like GH but even if it is just walk you decided

to do that the day didn't serve it up to you so I just wrote down find a way to be decisive in in exercise uh find a

place to belong yeah uh find a place to belong and sometimes that can be both right

maybe play playing a weekly Golf League or you know exercising with friends or

uh hell knitting club whatever a book club there's all these different ways you can actually um connect with other

people be around people who are a positive influence and then uh I uh

wrote down the Mind and Body in the flooring trade I didn't know about that so I'm glad you brought that up Daniel

but that's the last few uh moments there before Thomas had to run and uh man that

was awesome I got a lot out of that myself and I hope uh I hope the audience did too what do you guys think about um

some of the stuff that he said um like support groups and stuff how can we get

together outside of you know maybe that flooring uh the flooring group that you

mentioned Daniel what do you guys do to uh you guys are involved in softball and stuff and there's Community there that a

lot a lot of Youth Sports for us I think that's everyone in our family like yeah

yeah you you talk to the you know other sports parents and that's what you do you go there you hang out you start

talking to the other parents and I mean just last week when I went to Mexico with my

mom and just hanging out with them unwind intentional time with others God

intentional time off sometimes is you have to kind of plan for that and I think um like I I was talking about

earlier when I was saying you know that to him and and Tanya like I was burned out I really really was burned out and

um you know I had to talk to someone and then I started you know taking more time with Tanya and I just us away from the

kids and I didn't realize how big of an effect that was having on our relationship just you know because I'm

always like let's go do this and bring the kids and just taking time off for for just her and I helped tremendously I

think yeah I guess for me I just love teaching my kids dude I just like

hanging out with my kids and teaching them when I when I can haven't had that that time yet uh or haven't had a lot of

that time recently but I also know that the summer's coming around and um I'm

going to get a lot of that time here coming up I did go out and had BP with my daughters and my son this weekend U

my body didn't want to do it it was kind of chilly kind of cold but my kids wanted to do it they were looking forward to it so I made the time for it

and for those non non sports families BP's batting practice I assume yes

batting practice yeah yeah sorry sorry yeah my girls are excited to start their ball season they actually got practice

tonight so and I'll be leaving here shortly to go and U um accompany them

because my daughter made a comment a comment to me um last year year before

about she was her both my daughters were wrestling practicing wrestling and one of my daughters like I don't want to do

it anymore because Dad Dad doesn't come and watch me that means I'm not any good

man talk about catching the heartstrings and I think I was part of uh um the P or

the with Kyle uh hideen I was I was part of that Mastermind group at that time and I had to tell him like Hey

dude I'm not going to be able to make it today my daughter's got practice uh or I'm gonna be late or you guys G have to

deal with the noise because I I just was I just had to show my face in the window while she was practicing I didn't go in

the room or anything just had to show my presence um and that's important to me have you seen some of those videos on

social media where these kids are just on stage and they're looking around everywhere and just the way that they light up when they see some their

parents there that's I see it with my grand grandkids and then my my oldest uh

well not my old my second to the oldest son he's 14 he he's running track for

the first time this year and he's actually pretty fast I mean he's he's actually really fast pretty surprising

how how well he's doing but when he C comes around the the bend and he just

starts kicking and I'm over there just

yelling and he goes man I came around that bin I heard you up in the stand yelling and I

just so they are there they can hear you they are listening they're watching and

uh he gets a a great amount of I think kids and I get a lot uh of of enjoyment

out of watching them perform and them knowing that we get that gra that that

good feeling out of it too so it's pretty cool

um what's that say having good mental health means you're letting people know early that you are there for them yeah I

think that's important that's the maybe the biggest lesson is like we can get so tied up in our own problems we got to

remember you know helping others is is sometimes the best therapy so being being there for other people um and I

would double down on my uh the comparison thing Ed mlet who's one of my mentors has always said that comparison

is probably the root of many evil it's just the way it's not that you look and

you get jealous it's or you uh you see someone doing something and it doesn't

have to be material it can be that happy life and you fight with your loved one

or it could be you know one of mine is I was not close to my mom I get really

like almost a negative feeling when I see people who are so like you guys

and your mom it's like wow I wish I would have had that or I wish I had uh a

relationship with my mother that was loving and and was was positive that way

and uh you know I just didn't and it is what it is but um I think every

everything's kind of mindset though right because you can look at it like that like I W I wish I could have had that or you can look at it like man that

is awesome that you guys have something that's exactly right and and as you work through the progressions of your

mindset uh it can start in a it's finding that gratitude that's what I've

like don't compare yourself and find gratitude and be happy for other people uh I think someone on here I think it

was Tanya was like said something about like really liking to see other people happy I love seeing other people happy

and it's the only way uh a lot of times that you can get out of that funk and um

but it can also drag you down if you're not in the right uh mindset we were at um my daughter had a skating

party a couple weeks ago and there was a girl she probably like fifth or sixth grade something like that had a shirt on

that said hating me won't make you pretty this is true this is true I like

seeing people happy too um and I mean unless unless we're competing against one another and they're winning then

yeah I don't like seeing that but um I mean that that's just that's also mindset right because you can look at it

and like winning or you can look at it like I gotta I got to be better right gotta it's all how you how you look at

it and how you uh absorb the information I love the fact that that your mind is

always working towards what's the positive angle and um you know I think we all can learn a lot from this and um

this was a awesome podcast um I hope this gets out to a lot of people and um

everybody has the opportunity to a maybe get away from the the stigma of of

getting help or connecting with someone I I know that that's very beneficial um

and then also not being scared to find out the the things that you may think is

wrong with you um it doesn't mean something's wrong with you we're all unique and we have our own uh uh things

that we're fighting with in life uh but it doesn't have to be a negative and you've done a great job in this podcast

Danel bringing up positive angles on things so you know find a way to support

someone else give them some love um get get you know be a little proactive in

your mental health get out there move your body and uh let's let's as an industry improve and uh you know build

like we said in the in our opening build a new Legacy in our industry yeah yeah I would um I would

agree with that I would say um just made me think of this I don't it's not a

saying but um your world does revolve around you regardless of what people say

right so in order for you to have a better world revolve around you if it if

it isn't that that that uh if it is in the shadows then go find a new center

right just shift yourself find a new center so that way you have a different world revolving around

you yeah we all get tied up in our own own perspective for sure um yeah and we

can forget that there there is a big world out there I think that that saying is really about like quit thinking about

yourself so much and uh especially if you're in the habit of either thinking

too great about yourself and you're an egomaniac or if you're thinking too poorly about yourself and you don't

think you're worth the dirt that uh you know gets driven over uh either way

that's probably not the best and so yeah change in your environment there's a lot to that there's I mean this podcast

could go on for five hours with different professionals talking about how your environment affects your your

your mind and your body but really I do like the idea of of both with passion

and enthusiasm uh you know don't you know don't try to find your passion take it

with you in everything you do take your passion with you um we can be passionate

uh about our family and that may be why we're working but trying to find that that why which Simon synic talks about a

lot um finding your why doesn't mean you you have the perfect ideal job um but if

you're doing it for the right reasons it can make it enjoyable um so with that guys I'll sign us out and uh thank you

so much for your input today was awesome man it was one of my favorite episodes today Thomas if you can if you're

listening or if you come yeah thanks again brother yeah thanks again to Thomas for sure and you too Daniel Mr

positive thank you sir thank you Jose and we will talk to you guys uh next

week next [Music] week

The Huddle - Episode 92 - Easier Than You Think; Payroll

In this episode, Easier Than You Think; Payroll with expert Dana Canaday, we unmask the process of setting up and managing payroll for your employees. Many business owners are intimidated by the prospect, but we're here to talk about how it's simpler than it appears. With a multitude of payroll services available, the heavy lifting can be outsourced, or if you prefer, manageable DIY options exist. The initial setup is the hardest part and it can transitions to an almost hands-off system thereafter. Payroll companies can handle tax payments directly, leaving you to simply input employee wages. We will touch on the important distinction between W-2 and 1099, ensuring your staff are paid correctly and legally. Tune in to make payroll the least of your worries.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up team welcome to the Huddle your weekly Playbook where we strategize

not only on playing the game but changing it we're mastering the fundamentals of our craft to you know

making ourselves stand out in the marketplace we're here to help you be equipped with everything you need let's

band together and Forge a new Legacy and floring so with me today Mr Jose

Gonzalez Mr Daniel Gonzalez decided to uh run off on vacation this week so you

got him and I and uh a special guest Dana Canada with Stuart and Associates

our flooring company is here to discuss um you know today's topic which is you

know payroll and uh this kind of thing with subcontract community in in

particular so when Subs when you guys have uh you know we're trying to Break

Down The Walls of the fear of having employees and running your business correctly building up your uh

installation uh prowess with your team and not always uh you know a lot of Subs

sub to another sub and sub to another sub until uh the quality and money gets

diluted so Dana could you tell us a little bit about yourself a little bit about your history and and maybe what

you love about uh you know the uh commercial uh construction world yeah

sure my name is Dana caned and I have worked in the construction industry for

12 years now and for the large majority of that I have worked in

accounting um and so I have um in my experience set up new company hired

employees set up employees um paid taxes and um that sort of thing so I

definitely have some experience with today's topic so I appreciate you having me on thank you so

much for inviting me um and probably my favorite thing about working in

construction in general is just that it's very relationship based um you know

a lot of times in construction you're doing business with people because of a

relationship that you have and um relationships are important to me so I I

love that part about working in the industry awesome awesome well if you're

wondering about the Hat it was literally 80 degrees yesterday here in Witchita and then today it's like 30 so I my

equilibriums off it's probably not cold enough for a hat but uh something's messing with my brain and making me cold

so it's cold it's cold enough how's it up in Michigan is it crazy up there uh

yesterday was well low 40s rain mid 4S rain today is uh really not that much

better it's a little bit warmer the rain just makes it feel that much worse okay well our our swing is what threw me for

a loop it went from nice and pretty nice and 80 to cold overcast and and uh

not so today's today's topic is you know

payroll uh is easier than you think so if you guys are out there and you're

running your subcontracting crew your installation business and we're big proponents here on the Huddle about

running your business as a business charging accordingly and um you know the

the best way for you to succeed is to hire Talent develop that talent and get

them better and if you do want to grow your business uh when we first started

in the commercial flooring world we did not sub at all we have a lot of Subs now we also have ourly uh employees uh

installers as well we're always trying to increase that but it's it's um you

know it's up to the marketplace and the people that are out there yeah want to be hourly employee uh installers but

when I first started I didn't have any in fact we got up to about 15 or 16

hourly employees before I started hiring any subcontractors um so I encourage uh on

this huddle on this podcast uh we always encourage the subs to find good

long-term employees that you can help uh develop their skill they're going to be able to do more for you um and there's

ways um you know that you can hire people and it's it's not as scary you think

so the we'll we'll break it down first have Dana kind of just walk us through

what it's like when you when you bring on you know a new uh employee installer at the

company well one thing I do know for sure and I guess I I I do want to say

that I'm not necessarily an expert I just have some experience in this area so this is not like legal advice but um

you know you do have to have a uh company like tax ID number and um you do

have to be set up with um the state to be able to remit taxes before you can

hire someone um and that's really not that complicated it it's fairly simple um and

there are free resources that you can go to and numbers that you can call if you

are having trouble but but you know when you hire someone there's pretty much

like three basic documents that you have to have for every single uh

employee um one is a um W4 this is for

the IRS um and it tells what kind of money will be

withheld from that employee based on how how they're like if they're a single

person or a married person um and if they have any

exemptions or um um but that they the employee self-

elects that stuff right absolutely and there's information for the employee too

if they're not sure how to fill out the form um of how they should go about

doing that um and then in Kansas it's called a K4 so kind of like the W4 but

it's the Kansas version um and then the other form is an I9 and the

I9 basically is to verify that the person is legally um able to work within

the United States and so a lot of times uh in my experience we haven't I have

never hired anybody that was outside of the country that was like on a work visa

or anything like that so it you know for us uh citizens and you know they're

verifying that information by providing their social security card or their birth certificate or something like this

um and those those three documents are pretty much the main documents that you have to have on each

employee um and you would need those um you know when you were hiring that

person on and then you know from there basically you enter that information

into whatever operating system that you use um and we use uh Stewart and

Associates we use structure but there are you know a large uh variety of

products that people can use um if if I remember correctly I think Jose you said

you guys use QuickBooks um QuickBooks is a very uh very very userfriendly

product and it makes it really easy for you can go ahead and say it's entry level you don't you're not going to

embarrass me it's just um QuickBooks is a very

friendly product because it's word or uh excuse me Microsoft based product so you

know it's kind of like click and play it's I don't know it's pretty in in in

if you work and it's they have an online version that's super simple um I'm GNA

pause just for a quick second and uh introduce one of our uh sponsors so one

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floor Cloud now you know yeah so that's floor Cloud I'm a

huge believer in floor Cloud's technology uh it's easy to set up it's simple interface really makes it a

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it's your your moisture readings or your sight conditions right at my fingertips four hours away in my office uh you know

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general right now is moving very fast and we want to be on the front line and I encourage you to do so as well so War

Cloud's a real game changer uh check check him out today floor cloud.com so

Dana the the um these like operating

systems as you call them are really about you know keeping track of the employee uh that the employees you have

and your Sals and these kinds of things so we always encourage you guys to work uh as a business and you're going to

have to have a operating system of some sort or a really cool series of

spreadsheets whichever one you prefer but I would I would encourage you at I don't want to quote uh you know or or

we're not sponsored by QuickBooks or anything but it is probably the easiest most affordable system to use is uh

QuickBooks Online yeah and and that system also really helps you know uh

guide you how to enter that information because it it it knows those forms and

and what information needs to be entered so it just makes it very easy for you to

be able to set that up it's not very difficult and then a lot of times

without um you know job costing or you

know recording people's hours like the process of running payroll also can be very simple um especially QuickBooks I

mean um we we also use QuickBooks for one of our companies and it's basically

automated it with with the exception of changing the number of hours that people

work um the system automatically runs the payroll make sure it gets paid and

pays the taxes um and quick QuickBook offers that as a service and it makes it

very easy yeah so it'll automatically calculate and and pay the your payroll

taxes on your employees for you so it's not you get a system like that and it's

really seems pretty uh efficient way to uh you know onboard employees and track

their hour well enter their hours and get them paid easily on a weekly basis or monthly basis or whatever whatever

your pay schedule is one of the um I think things to clarify uh on the I9

is um we've had a lot of clients talk about um uh from go career side talk

about the government now as we all know there's a you know immigration situation

which I will not weigh in on on this podcast but I'll say you have a lot of

people that uh that are uh unable to verify that they're a US citizen or have

legal right to work in the United States that being said what's going on though

is the federal government themselves um we had a request from a a customer at go

carer to add in the

um some verification what do they call it proof of some requirements

verification requirements proof of residency yeah it was passed the I9 that

the federal government themselves are asking for so as as you can kind of see

um there's somewhat of of that issue but

the federal government elves want you to verify um so at the end of the day that

I9 there's other you know you don't have to necess you have to have a right to work in the United States and be here uh

in a legal Manner and that's about the the end of that requirement so I I I wanted to clarify that you don't have to

necessarily be a US citizen you just have to be legal to work uh in the United States so um what are what are

some of the problems that you ran into Jose with uh and and or seen with the

way that some subcontractors hire other 1099 guys or they hire somebody and they

they treat them like an employee really but they are paying them like a

1099 so um I can only speak for what I've seen and what we've went through

right and if I told when we started out we started out 100% uh classification or

class our employees properly or classifying individuals as employees let me let me rephrase that I would I would

be lying so um you don't know what you don't know right and um I think the not

understanding the the ramifications if if something were to happen legally how much trouble

you could be in that's that's the one thing that that we didn't know and as we started learning more we started like

oh okay so now I can be responsible for all of this I can be if someone gets H

if something happens they're not classified so they're everything's going to fall right on me um unless I have

that paper trail but they have to have all the right insurance requirements there's a there's a lot of things into

it if you're going to keep someone on as a 1099 um really having a 1099 person is

as complicated as having an employee really I mean you gotta have a work comp

uh you got to have insurance policy a W9 on them you got to have a uh they either

have to have their own work comp insurance or in some states you can wave that uh that requirement um if they're a

1099 but you still have all these documents you you need to legally have to operate as a business if you're going

to be sending somebody a$ 1099 at the end of the year so really the the from a

paperwork standpoint anyway it's not they're they're not that much it's not

harder to have an employee uh I think where it gets harder to have an employee

is you are responsible for them at this at that point at least for their development and them becoming a um you

know getting the proper training and doing you know performing their Duty as you um you know would like them to

so you you say you say that you know it it makes more responsibility but you

also have more control over what that person can do and what what it is that

you need them to do you know you can hold them to a quality standard you can hold them to a timeline or set certain

expectations that you couldn't necessarily for a sub right yeah that's a great point that that is that is a a

very valid point um and that is a that is one of the benefits to being or to

having employees versus always banking on using Subs is they're there for a job

if someone's coming in as an employee they're there because they want a career um a sub is there because it's

convenient at the time for the most part excuse me guys I'm still getting over my cold um but you sound great yeah

I know I bet I do the um the problems that we're running into

with with Subs versus employees is just that and it's I don't want to get too

far off track right but they they can go do whatever they want they can they can quit tomorrow and

and decide to go uh turn a wrench uh when you have an employee like Paul had

mentioned earlier is you can actually encourage them to learn more right you're in charge of that and and to to

talk about the how the ease of having how easy it is uh for an employee versus

a subcontractor it actually gets easier with employees because everything is

once they're entered into your system as an employee everything's pretty much automated all the changes are made from the office and then they go out instead

of the changes being made from the sub and then you're getting the trickle up effect that doesn't uh doesn't really

benefit you in some some scenarios but uh the well I going to jump in just real

quick I think one of the points in made that is so valid and important is uh

that the um the employee you can you can

require them to be there at a certain time whereas a sub you can only give them the schedule and the time you know

that you need to get done with it uh so one quick uh another word from an a

sponsor here is uh go Carrera we're we're sponsoring the Huddle and uh many

of you guys know I've I've talked about go career quite a bit on this uh so we're going to play a quick video uh

about the ease of getting your profile and one of the ways that you can and uh

increase your professionalism as a

[Music]

sub well we decided to sponsor our own with

the Huddle instead of go carera so you got to listen to our awesome intro music so uh that being said goer is really

meant to um give you the tools and and

uh you know the digital Tools in this Digital World to help you uh work

in um with efficiency um you know promote yourself as third party verified

promote your skills and uh you know land more work and increase your uh your

professionalism in the industry and hopefully uh earn some more money too so that being said back on the whole

payroll thing uh as I was saying like we can we when we schedule an employee to

go to a job site they go to the job site at the time that they're scheduled to be there um and well at least you hope and

most times that's true uh but but the the fact is is that you can require them

to be there there's tradeoffs in all of this but um you know one big the

probably the biggest thing for me is being able to to develop their skill set

um send them to trainings Norby one of our top installers here I speak about a lot of times because he is so talented

you know we've sent him I think to three or four different certification courses

um and that's made him better and we've earned business from protect all business because uh nor certified to do

it and Nora because he's certified to do it and so that that's a key Point as

well right I mean the the fact that you can make make it a requirement for them

to be on site at a certain time and uh it gives a better experience Elena had

just touched base on that too and I think that she was referring to subcontractors as far as um requiring trainings uh and offer

advancements right um You can do that with your subs hey you guys want to go get trained on this I got a project

coming up um but it requires a certified

or a qualified individual and you guys are already good at that we just need to get this label um and we have done that

as a subcontractor we have we've been fortunate to to meet a

lot of the the right people at the right time and we've gone and and taken training classes and certifications

because we had a job coming up and that was as a sub um not as an employee um

and that's because we we do want to increase our opportunities as well as

the the companies that we're doing work for right if they look good if they look

good they'll make me look better in the end because I'll get more work from them and um if they see that I'm doing my

best to make them look better then it's GNA be hard to to kind of break that that partnership yeah we haven't really

talked about this yet in the conversation I don't know if it's part of it but you know for for the person

who's doing the work um as an employee just like you were talking about Norby

you know that we we gave that training to Norby as an investment to him but

also for Norby it makes him more marketable and gives him a leg up on

others um because he has that kind of thing and and so you know it it probably

would make I don't want to speak for Norby but probably he wants to stay with someone who's going to continue to

invest in him and make him feel valued and that they're growing him um as an

employee so you know from the employee side it's nice to work for a company

that wants to investing you and when you are working as a subcontractor there's really no incentive to to invest in

someone that way right um because they the incentive is investing in yourself

that's the incentive um and you know it's it's it is it is a a very nice

compliment to have an employee invest their their time and their funds and believe that you're going to succeed in

something um that they are um putting forth the capital for but it's another

thing if you're doing it for yourself if you're doing it for yourself it's there's a lot more reward in doing

it for yourself at the end that it is the the stress of making sure that you are passing and completing these courses

for someone who is who is forking the bill right like oh I don't want to fail they believe in me I don't want to fail

but when you go do it for yourself there's there's a different mindset um for yourself in I think it's important

in both cases no doubt um there's obviously the a huge benefit from the

employee standpoint like you said Dana that you know company's willing to

invest in me yeah I might put a little extra you know gumption on the on the

training course and making sure that they are um uh they they would definitely want to pass if you sent them

so but you know Elena says you know it's motivation and I I have to agree with

that the fact is is that uh employees do like you for if you can invest in their

their skill set and they should make more money as they get that put that skill set into action and that's

typically how it goes if you're a sub and you want to go get trained that's what go career promotes like go if

everybody was an employee go career wouldn't be around but um the fact is is that we want we want all installers

whether you're a sub or a uh employee installer to desire to get better at

your craft uh it just is a nice benefit when that's paid for you as an employee

versus P yourself as a sub um so staying

on this kind of uh trajectory when we're talking about hiring one of the things

that we see as flooring companies who hire Subs is when you have employees and

you have the control of those employees so when when we tell you a job site's

you know open from 7:30 to 330 the guys that have employee

installers or employee install that work for them the sub companies that do that

they're more likely to be on time that's what we've seen they're more likely to be there when you're SK when they're

scheduled to be there um when you are always pushing the buck down 1099 down

the line that's where guys don't show up on time there everybody's an independent

and there's no it's like chaos and uh I think that's one of the things

that kind of plagues the industry is you know the sub hireing sub hireing a sub a

sub and and I can guarantee you if your GC knows it if you if you are working on

projects with General Contractors they are not going to like that that scenario so do to to to do this and listen to

some of the uh information Dana's given about like it's not that hard and you got a lot of paperwork either way you go

to be legally um uh classifying that individual as either a 1099 or a a W2

employee yeah and I I think that oh I'm so sorry go ahead no you're go you're good go ahead um I think that when you

hire Subs of Subs you know and sometimes of Subs um you know you you really run

into the risk of not being able to control the quality on the project because you don't really know what those

people down the line what their skill level is um and you know we've already

kind of talked about it but schedules are kind of a huge thing in construction because you really can um lose money on

a project if you're not performing your job on time so if you don't have the

ability to manage that schedule because you're hiring subs or Subs of Subs of

Subs um it it really creates uh liability um you know the further up

that you go and then you know just to add on to what you said to the sub of Subs that's that's uh the dilution of

what you of expectations right the reason that that a company is hiring a sub is because of uh they already have a

level of expectation that's been set by that individual and now they are uh

subbing that out to another one now communication goes haywire and like Paul

had said um the lack of structure right as far as

uh start time end time um and and I will say that being an employee before we

started preferred flooring was probably one of the best things that could happen because it did instill that structure

now granted when I started in the industry and Daniel too is um we still had structure with the gentleman that we

were working with um however is like once you're an employee though and you're like part of a team everybody is

punching that clock at a specific time in the morning and then you know and and progressing through their day like that

schedule is so important especially when you're working on Commercial projects where there's deadlines and they're

expecting you at you know 6:30 a 7: am or if you have a three-hour window to get some grinding done before they start

a surgery an an operation on an IR you know that that's where all that comes in as soon as you falter on that because of

a sub or sub of a sub that's going to dwindle that work away there there's

there's a level of trust there um that is hard to hard to break I

think things that I have seen too and I I've seen it happen a number of times is

that um you know Elena made a point that we can hold them to a standard as well as accountable but what I've found is

that sometimes the sub of a sub or sub of a sub of a sub those lower people

don't always get P paid Pro l so you know you might be able to hold them

accountable by withholding funds from them but I mean that can also be a risk

as you know being hired on as a subcontractor that you know if you don't

have the knowledge of who you're working for hopefully you get paid for the work

that you do you know well well let's let's be honest about that a sub of a sub of a sub isn't going to take too

kindly to you withholding some funds from them because chances are they need that to get to the next week it's

already got diluted so much by the time get down there yeah there's there's the

filtration system is in full effect at that point yeah and and you know and

that's the whole thing like everyone listening who's afraid of uh classifying employees and payroll

and all that I was there with you guys I was I was horribly Afraid by the

percentages that I had to invest back into the employees and the and the company in order to create that

structure when we first started scared like how am I gonna do it the thing was

is that once we got started and we got into the Rhythm it got easier and it

actually makes you look at your business a lot differently and you got requested more you got more business because you

were able to satisfy your client better and then your margins Go 100% like all of that stuff kind of happens you know

we make our uh typically most times make much better margins on our employee

installers and it's it's because those projects are are they want that service

they those projects want that guy that's going to be there at 6:30 and if you ask

a Norby or one of the other guys that are on our cruise to be there at 6:30

they're there at 6:30 most times and um so the communication level all that

stuff improves um let alone the fact that you you um they they have ownership

of the company they feel like they're they're representing the company better for you when they're out in the field

and so our our we have some really good Subs so I'm not saying anything bad about the the our sub community at all

but you know the the hourly employees always have our shirts on they always have you know it's our vans and our

things that are the tools are uh you know first quality tools out on job

sites so all that stuff leads to efficiency and better branding for your company and so there you go that

branding that's what I was going to add on to that too is is what you were just saying was the exposure that it creates

as well instead of showing up to a project with a Leonard skinnard shirt on or a buttweiser shirt they're showing up

uniformed and you know you and they become a a familiar

a familiar logo a familiar shirt familiar van um in in your area um yeah

and that that does help bring business as well um there's no shame in in in

advertising for yourself yeah but that's that's the

whole point like Dan to Dana Point earlier the the subs you know you you

just don't know what Subs are going to be Subs are going to be Subs at the end of the night yeah

uh but you don't know what there if if a sub is using another

sub you just don't know what and then they're you they have guys that are helping them that they're treating as

1099 guys too you don't know what you're getting that's was I think Dan is

pointed earlier you just don't know what you're getting where with your employee installers you absolutely do or if

you're using a good sub who has employee installers we can feel confident that

you know homberto or one of the guys are going to put Junior on the job and so we

know junior or we know whoever the the the employee of that guy is so you know

to me it's it's a huge benefit to having employee installers uh certainly when

like I said when I first started out I was a subcontractor for flooring companies so I was uh picking up labor

contracts from you know flooring companies like my like my company steart Associates are like preferred flooring

and I'd build relationships with those guys but my guys that worked for me were all employee installers they all worked

for me by the by the hour and there's some other ways to do that Across the Nation I know some people you can still

do W2 uh employee installer by piece work uh that gets real complicated and

takes takes a little bit more effort but you can control your cost to a to an extent um that's not real prevalent

around uh the Midwest here in in Kansas uh but I've heard some of those

structures uh you know on the uh more in the Southeast uh of the country Elena

has a question I'm putting up on the screen right now why are we subbing to a sub to a sub to a sub in the first place

that's a great question that is that is go go ahead Paul I I'll add to whatever you got because I have my my own Theory

as well well most of the time it's it I think it it's because the sub that we

hire uh has a guy that's working for him and instead of bringing him on as a W2

he pays him cash or pays him by check and then sends him a 1099 at the end of

the year if I think it would happen a lot less if you know if the IRS is

successful and this is not fearmongering this is just a fact you know early last year they hired another 80 some thousand

uh agents to go after this 1099 1099 1099 situation is one of their goals and

I think if you're treating an individual as a 1099

sub and you're doing it the right way it's no harder to have a W2 but there's

easier ways to shortcut and make it simpler to just pay somebody a check

each week and then send them a 10 1099 at the end of the year I don't think any

of it's being done probably correctly and the reason it's being done in my opinion in the first place is just out

of fear and ease and that's one of the reasons we're having this podcast is to try to kind of break down some of those

Fair uh you know those Scary Walls and and let you know that if you do both the

right way one's not that m not in my opinion any more

complicated yeah and I was going to try to add on to it but you you started out exactly where I was going to go with it

so um and and you're right it's the like the fear that I had that we had

when we were started was are we going to be able to afford it that was the fear

is are we gonna be able to afford it um and we didn't start out I like when I

started out we started out with Quick Books right um like just a cheap probably bootleg version um before we

want uh to QuickBooks online but when we want to classify our employees as

employes emplo es we went through um um I don't know if I should say their name

or not but we went through an employee management company who did the classification everything for us to make

it easier and then we started looking like we I say we Daniel S saying why are

we paying them this much money to do this all I gotta do is go click click click now that they understand it um and

we ended up parting ways and taking care of it because we're smaller though very few people don't have a lot of a paper

trail we didn't have benefit packages at that point like it was still Bare Bones um but that's well you bring up a good

point get a get a accountant like you can get smaller accounting firms they're

all over um we started off with a really small accounting firm that I used to

just go every week I drop off a packet of stuff you know and they just take

care of it for me that's old school that's old school now we just email it these nowadays we just email it guys now

you can now you can email it I probably should have not done that I justed myself yeah I used to send faxes

and Courier by Pony Express no the the um but having an accountant

on your team uh also is not near as scary or as expensive and when you do

that you also kind of short change your tax year uh preparation stuff because

they if you if they have access to your QuickBooks then they're kind of always up Tod dat about what you're doing and

and they can ask questions and have you get them stuff inner term uh to stay up

to date and make your tax you know uh processing uh portion of your business

more effective um the other question it looks like is

shouldn't we not have control over who's on our job uh or who uh is being put on

your job the answer is yeah I mean ultimately you have the the authority on

who's going to be on your side or not the problem is is that if you hired a sub and you don't know who they're

sending because they they use other subs or other 1099 people and you just don't

know you know how it is when you know a company you get to know their employees

you kind of know who who each person is if it's a consistent um uh if they have

consistent employment and that's less likely when that sub is then subbing to

another sub or subbing to another sub so yeah I I think the answer to your

question is yeah you do have control I mean we've we've removed people off of job sites because they were not either

they show up in shorts or something just because they know how to install click

lvt they get sent to a commercial project and they're ins short and t-shirt and tennis shoes and we're like

you can't be on this job you know um but that's kind of that's a lot of the

controls that uh you know Dana spoke about and you you touched on as well Jose is having control over uh what they

wear and how they present your company and uh all that to me is leads to better

clients and more profitability and a better company overall so I'm gonna do

something I'm G I'm going to change the word up from having control to um having expectations right because I don't want

to keep saying that and scare be like oh they just want to control me it's not that is that setting a level of

expectation and professionalism is what it what it amounts to um instead of instead of the control factor

it's structured to help build and if I build properly you're going to benefit

as well so let's let's all go all in on on the structure that we're creating

yeah I think that controls thing uh is spoken of a lot because that's how the

IRS um identifies whether or not if they were to come in and audit your company

uh are you exuding control over those 1099 uh individuals if you're exuding

controls in the way of what they wear outside of safety yeah yeah what they

wear if you are trying to control what time they show up to a job site and not

just giving them a scope of work if you are dictating the pricing to them and

not allowing them to set their own price on a job and if you are um uh not allowing

them the well there's a lot of other factors but the other part of control is

not allowing them to have control over their profitability which is dictating

hey we pay this amount and they have no way to move that amount and um you know

as one of our sponsors go career does is allows any subcontractor to then

negotiate the price offering so if a company posts a work order and that work

order is um uh viewed by a subcontractor

that sub can negotiate the price or negotiate the schedule those are important things that that remove that

control so that's where control came from I do like your explanation of saying like it's expectations and you

can expect them to be on the job side at a certain time yeah you can expect them to do a certain uh um level of quality

we we can all expect quality but you can have other expectations surrounding quality on how they perform that work

meaning um with Subs you're not always allowed to even tell them the exact technique you want them to use so anyway

that go ahead Dana I think the only other thing I'd like to point out about you know being in control of who we put

on our job is that we for the company that I work for at Stuart and Associates

we don't have enough employee installers to do all of the work that we have so

that's one reason and it also allows to be in markets that we don't have

employee installers or that it would be more complex to have an employee

installer um where we can hire a um a sub and we are already a

subcontractor to help get that job done so that would be just another reason why

I guess that you would sub work out yeah yeah you took a unique approach to that

I wasn't sure what uh the qu Elena's question was surrounding if that was from us subbing or if that was uh uh the

sub subbing again but that's a good point yeah you get workload and we're trying to um have a good we we don't

have enough employee installers as you said to do all of our work and um and

then you got work outside the marketplace so yeah that all makes sense all right well we're coming up on 45

minutes I want to uh Jing guys a quick uh second to maybe uh any closing

statements I want to thank you Dana for joining us today really appreciate your insights and uh yeah we get to the part

where where benefits come into play right like as an employee that you can you can find benefit packages and that's

a um that was one thing that when I went from working as a sub to a sub and

getting the employee benefit package that was huge um at the time and and well worth the transition um and then I

didn't have to worry about tracking anything and paying taxes and all it was all taken care of that is

a a relief um as far as the closing thoughts I do want to say like you're

just a small company and you get to plan and staying labor only and you do have buddies that you work with but they get

work from you um that's where and I talked to Dana about this too that's where the benefit to the to go Carrera

comes in right now all of a sudden it's just like push of a button boom boom boom all the documents got to be

uploaded every somebody else is taking care of that for you and it just expedites the the payment process to to

the the subs that are working with you you um and man that is the Easy Button

you guys that is the Easy Button I'm not going to lie why people in our area aren't catching on to that yet

ah I know will I know it will well I want to thank everybody my

only closing statement would be something that you said earlier Jose is that uh starting out as a employee

really set good precedence for you uh we've said this a hundred times on this podcast if we've said it once is if

you're a younger newer uh person to the flooring industry get a job as an

employee for a while it'll help you set those good work habits it'll help you set good um uh practicing good

techniques if you're working with a good company and um I would implore you to

start your career out as an employee installer and then if you gain that business Acumen throughout watching this

podcast I know you are then then you can start to uh set up a company that would

be a really good subcontractor to the world but start out as an employee that's how I started that's how I grew

my company that's how Jose and Daniel both did the did uh preferred flooring

and I think it's a good way to go so with that I'm GNA sign us off guys thank you so much Dana really appreciate your

insights and Jose thank you as always sir it's a pleasure so with that we're going to break the huddle

thank you everyone

The Huddle - Episode 91 - The Future of the Retailer

The guys examine the crucial transition flooring retailers must make towards online sales, as consumer habits increasingly favor the convenience of digital shopping over traditional store visits. This shift, particularly among younger buyers who seek streamlined purchasing processes, challenges retailers to integrate e-commerce into their business models effectively. We also address the growing trend of independent installers gaining market share, often due to retailers' reluctance to collaborate, forcing them to source materials through alternative channels or set up their own accounts. Join us as we explore how the flooring retail landscape is evolving in response to these digital and market pressures.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up team welcome to the Huddle your weekly Playbook where we strategize

on not only playing the game but changing it from mastering the fundamentals of the craft to

distinguishing ourselves in the marketplace we're here to give the installer a voice and ensure you're

equipped with everything you need so let's band together and Forge a new Legacy in floring this is where you

belong welcome with me everyone Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez

from preferred Flooring Grand Rapids Michigan what's going

on oh you know it's pouring over here now it was snowing snowstorm last week

rainstorm this week yeah we keep going up and down here but enough with the weather and hey your

name is Ashlin look at that that's cute oh yeah oh that that doesn't stand for as

that stands for what he smells

like all right just join and don't pay attention we're gonna give a a uh Little

Couple moments here for some guests to

join yeah I was actually vog you uh confirm we're shared on all socials I'm

about to right now so a great idea

so I I think this is an interesting topic today though right we're talking about retailers and we're technically

not retailers so hopefully some of them jump on and start arguing with us I'm hoping

one of them do uh maybe just setting us straight uh we just have some thoughts and Concepts and some uh I think we've

you know heard certain things from you know that we'll get into but discussed

where um you know that landscape may be changing and making sure that we

provide uh open platform for communication to see what what kind of things we can do as professionals to uh

get better and and uh you know kind of guide those turbulent

Waters uh you never know what's going to happen but few Concepts have been tossed out there couple emails I've gotten that

uh with this question I actually tried to get a hold of one of my buddies about

this and uh him and I have just not been able to um connect uh a retailer

everyone knows but um I was just going to try to get a little content from him

for today's podcast but maybe he'll join he's uh joined a time or two so we'll

see so what's um as we're letting I have a question I have a question and and

this is I mean it's for me it's going to sound like a dumb question maybe but what constitutes uh someone as a

retailer uh so I think the first thing is a showroom

yeah uh you gota you gotta have a showroom to whether that's a mobile showroom or a uh you know but some type

of a showroom would be my um probably you know number one thing I mean

flooring flooring dealers uh I mean you can sell flooring and sell it out of off

books and and different things but showroom showing product all that kind of thing I think is kind of the you know

having full displays and a and a good a good sized

um you know selection yeah you know having people come in and actually

taking a look at everything feeling it putting hands on it yeah yeah that that

that would be what I would say is the key retailer to start this off right how

there you go guys this uh topic is going to be a little bit of fun because like

Daniel just said none of the three of us are are uh retailers but we thought we

would bring some Concepts to the to the podcast hopefully we'll get some

interaction from a retailer out there uh or two that may um give us some insights

on what they're thinking but um I uh I can only go off as some of the some of

the information given and uh should be fun Jorge just joined us what's up

jge um okay well let's kick it off so now that we

have uh um tag team back again I know what

you're going at buddy um we're old we are old dude uh but we're still cool so

that being said the uh definition of a retailer right

someone who has a a showroom I think you were setting me up there uh Jose because

we've got some Concepts or some some people who have said that um you know that that a lot of

this may end up moving online and that you know sourcing

local uh you know installation uh you know right now it's

kind of like uh trying to find a needle and Haystack to to know whether or not

you're getting a good guy unless you're using the go career Network right so uh

but that being said uh what what do you I I just wanted to discuss that like

what what are your guys's thoughts is is it possible for your average home buyer

I mean I see it as possible but not probable but some of the people are

building I know a guy building I won't mention because it's kind of confidential but he's building a whole

thing like a a a um a

submersive internet showroom to selfing from and so that is happening I

don't know if it's going to catch Steam and actually you know like the whole that whole concept catch Steam and and

that be the new way um but the idea is that he would give suggestions to uh for

installation but not have any part of it Direct ship the product to the house uh

use some other technology for the homeowner to measure the house themselves add a certain percentage for

Waste factors and those kinds of things and then ship ship the material direct to the home do you think that type of a

business model it can catch steam I I mean it it it probably is

already catching steam um with some of the the people out there in know that are practicing some of that in a lighter

manner right with uh the technology and the way it's come so far and all the new Ai and all the renderings that they can

do because I mean even some of the major manufacturers have on their website view this product in your room um and the

basic takeoff is getting a lot easier I think uh uh what's the technology lar is that the technology that's yeah that's

being used right now iPads yeah yeah so what do you do there let's stop right

there and explain lar I I'm not real familiar you guys showed me a little a little piece but right so it's just this

this little spot right here and it just shoots lasers out that the camera's pick

up so you can actually measure everything and have it's I mean when you

were over here we messed with it and it's pretty accurate I mean it's kind of scary accurate that's what they you have

your like like do that and then scan the room and then you have the and then the

it seems practicing already dude but but this is the

technolog is there to do it right I mean lar you download an app

and and I think it's iOS only right now correct yeah the iPhone and

iPad y so so I think that that's where it's shifting to you know once once uh

what was it probably two years ago we sat in a conference and they were talking about Ai and the rise of the

metaverse and you know and and incorporating that like you're not I

think you even said it once too if you're if you're not embracing technology you're GNA get left behind right and and that's where it's gonna be

running to is when when covid came in and hit people scrambled and tried to

find another way to still shop and you know and and that everything went up all the purchasing Amazon everybody was

still business was good online yeah and and uh well and then they're going to

have to sour they're going to have to on once they do that they're going to have to Source their labor so one of the

greatest Technologies on the planet is a labor platform we all know uh and grown

very fond of of go Carrera so let's watch a quick video of

[Music]

that [Music]

well if that was not the best transition ever I don't know what

was no but I mean that's that's uh if you're out there and you're in the uh FL

installation world you owe it to yourself to get that free profile set yourself apart get third party verified

and uh you know there there's a lot of weight that comes to uh selling yourself

to a homeowner or contractor or otherwise when you're third party verified so get that free profile that

being said free profile come on now guys fre yeah is and zero dollars to you f

re that's right so Daniel um or Jose you were just saying you know

there and even Eduardo just popped up Alibaba floring XD I don't know if that's a real thing or if

he's just talking crap it will be next week it will be next week that's the thing though right that's um in terms of

what's going on it's looking at the younger people the younger people don't like going out they don't

like you know socializing per se like doing stuff like

that and look at just Amazon Alibaba right like these types of things exist

because people flock to them and it it's only going to get worse so how are we going to we talk about you know the the

Gen Z and stuff in the workforce but they're also going to be the buyers here pretty soon so how are we going to cater

to them yeah and they they seem to be much

they they seem to trust what they see online line a heck of a lot more than they trust

people the the textile people the textile people like myself are are are pretty much dying out if you look at

Daniel and I we are two different types of Shoppers that dude would buy something online don't like it he'll return it I will go to four different

stores try it on smell it feel it touch it and like ah I'm just gonna buy here

because I don't want to trust it might fit different online it might feel different if I buy it online well that's

the thing that's where the the online rate ings come from right because once you start getting everything online

people can start rating I thought it was going to feel way but it doesn't some of them have even uh brought new technology

out to to fight that you know measuring your feet and stuff if you want

shoes like they send you the stuff to to measure your feet correctly all that

it's kind of fascinating so let's get back to the flooring side of things you got this

nidar thing or is it light light uh and you download the app and and the

homeowner takes a measurement and then goes to this website that gives a real submersive kind of maybe uploads that

that document whatever the result of that liar measurement is and then um you

know gets to see the flooring in their space and gets sold kind of uh right

there you know what I'm saying and then ships to their their house what's the

what's keeping that from happening other than you know the retailers really

continuing to up their game and some of them are freaking fantastic at at connecting with the homeowner when they

come in I don't think retail is going away that's my opinion I think that

people there's enough people that want the human interaction but if 30% or 20%

of people do this that's still a significant piece of the market buying online uh you know what what's uh what

do you see are the pitfalls of or the what what's going to stop it is anything or is it gonna happen the competitive

pricing from big box stores I mean is is hard to compete with you got to look at the investment right like if it is going

to go that route the investment to get set up and and make sure that you are

evolving with that process and then be able to compete with a big box store is going to be very difficult uh you know

and and then all of a sudden now the big back stores give the the one-on-one personal experience along with the

favorable pricing um because of their purchasing the retailers have always bought the big box stores though and

they they've done pretty well with expertise I think the one thing that should be considered that the big box

stores I would say the number one uh

complaint is that they don't you know you got someone who's not a flooring expert selling your flooring um whereas

these online stores could have a real expert because they only have to get it right once right they record all this

stuff like how to pick your flooring correctly do you want a nylon do you want a you know a polyester do you want

you know a cut pile or a loop or whatever and they go through this whole like I could just see them going through

a series of questions to match you to the the category that best fits what

you're looking for I'm looking for carpet I want something that's you know you know

uh a nylon or a wool you know and you kind of Step almost like a wizard like

you're setting up a piece of software yeah and then at the end of it you end

up on you know 40 products that you can look at and toss it in your room from

that lar scan and and get a feel for what you're thinking of and

then now how do they ship carpet I don't know going to be a problem right you need a warehouse I'm sure they have to

figure all that stuff out but these concepts are not ours uh we we've talked about them in some previous uh

discussions from things that have been brought to us so I'm just curious we we

thought it'd be interesting to get everybody's opinion on this so let's read some comments uh maybe the

wholesalers might come in uh strong if the pros sign up with them and do their

their own business instead of going to retail and taking chips and bits

well yeah I think anytime you're you're the the installer or the professionals

are teaming up back with the retailers that's going to be something that would

um probably be a win for the retailer you know what I mean because you at

least you got someone in between you and the installation um but frankly their

software coming out I mean we just watch video they can select their installers

off go Carrera in the future which is not available now then what right um and

uh you know we're not to the public we're B2B but my point is there's software happening and there's

technology happening so what's what's going to um what's going to keep people

going into the retail store I think is that human interaction and that professionalism I know some retail to do

it really really well and when they when they that's why they knock it out of the park but this concept is foreign to me

to buy a whole a whole bunch of but I know people who bought tile off a stone trash for example and then found an

installer and got it installed so man that's a that's a whole lot of

work a whole lot of gambling but I guess if you know if you know the right people and then someone who can who's a professional who can help lead you in

the right direction with material that you might be looking at that's a little bit different um it

really I don't think it really matches up with being able to go inside and and and hang around a brick and morar for

you know four or five hours get some free coffee and meat some people but um

I don't know I don't know many people that I talked to or deal with

that that are still doing that I do know that some of the uh uh some of the

partners that that we still work with uh do have a very large showroom um and a

lot of the majority of their sales come from Walkins and and appointments and

and and having that person-to person experience

and trying to cut that out of the equation isn't going to be easy but um I

think that if you have people that are educated out there that like like hardhead is saying if you have people

who are educated and who are willing to help clients educate themselves I think

that there would be a a market to kind of Branch off of uh the traditional

showroom per se what about you uh Daniel is there you

know we the the title is the future of the of the retailer I want you know maybe it should say the future of re the

future retailer uh you know could be a whole new business structure sure new people

coming in new people finding ways to meet clients where they're at and a lot

of people like to buy online a lot of people do like to buy online and

um like not only is are they the younger people are going to come in and start

buying but those younger people are also going to get in and start selling too right

and it's just going to make sense that everything moves online um just like

you know we we did the the go careera one we're going to do a a stubby tools one right here we sell these things

online and it won't let me create a QR code I was trying to do that um I had one in there but it it wouldn't let me

but we're going to play a quick video here and uh show you guys about this these stubby

[Music]

tools [Music]

[Applause] [Music]

oh damn that's a cool tool it is it's something that we

brought in from Australia because you know I just ordered a couple to try them

out loved them was like more people need to get these into their hands and you can get them uh at our website pfmi team

that's a the short version of it way easier than trying to spell the third flooring Mii

so I I I think those those younger people you know the buyers and the

sellers are all going to flock to online because that's just what they have they've been born

with like they they were born with technology in their hands and they just like that ease of use get some reviews

on things and then that's only going to make the the manufacturers and retailers

tighten up and say yeah this product maybe maybe isn't as good as we thought

it was and we should probably try selling something else right because though those real time reviews are are

key I mean everyone goes to Amazon and some of these products have you know 2,000 3,000 reviews you know I've never

looked does Amazon actually have like flooring on it um so we've actually we've done some

bids where the flooring was actually specked on Amazon like you had to that's

the only person that sold it was Amazon

yeah there's comment here that that says uh we need the we need an interior

designer take because they're keen on the styles that consumers are most

likely to come around to which um which I think keeping up with fashion styles

sorry it's a little small here will be easier to make a user experience that

aligns with what's in yeah but what you know that could be online too right you get someone to uh to there's a lot

online here to help you um kind of check

you know help you select the right materials and help you get the uh the

the newest styles that are in um plus what if the wizard kind of does some of

that for you like a AI designer uh which is happening in the commercial World

anyway that is happening uh there's there's like trendy uh you can have a

trendy AI bot select materials for you it's not flooring yet but I've seen it

in painting and some other materials lighting and so if you wanted a whole

package picked from uh you know a trendy or a modern or you pick your design and

it goes through that wizard so these things are happening I'm I'm fascinated on how it's all coming together I uh

I I don't I don't have a strong opinion because I'm not in that business but I

do I do think that um some people are going to buy that way surely like who

thought Facebook that anybody would would really like Facebook would really do what it did or or social media in

general now look at you know yeah it's a Jugger not of you mean mypace bro you

mean my space now you're really

I mean AI is going to be huge it's only going to continue to get bigger um just like in canva you we use canva

right and it's like in there all you got to do is click a button in it's different color palette and it's going to be kind of the same thing oh this is

the color palette I want let's design my entire house with this so that way

everything flows and you you're never going to have to leave the your phone or your computer well I another another

thought I wonder if retailers don't turn into labor shops that are uh received

the materials and schedule the labor and make sure that it's done wonderfully I

wonder if that's not the the the future retailer is you know having your own

website that does that and then um and then having the materials come over to

your Warehouse so the homeowner does not have to to uh you know receive those

materials and then you you still have a place where the where the uh installer

can pick up materials and come to your house and get her done right and maybe it's more focused on the service of

getting the product installed in the future and less about the product itself

right and I think the the other thing that is going on with the the retailers and stuff is that they're not willing to

partner with the installers right they think well I want all these funds from

selling the material because I mean rightfully so they're the ones that you know buy the the samples and stuff like

that and all the racks and and displays and stuff but at the same time like when

we were doing it we were just asking for a a small margin right like let us make a little bit and they couldn't even do

that and we've that's numerous companies that we we tried to do it with and then

once we started selling we're like man we kind of uh looked horrible to some of these people that we were selling to

because we thought we had that you know at least a few per to mark up but no

they were selling it to us basically for retail and then having us go and it's like no like some of

these some of these things have to be addressed right it's either you start partnering with some installers and

selling them material so that way everyone can make money or they're going to start branching out and start doing

their own thing and we we're we're seeing it a lot more lately and you know some of our sales reps come in here and

I talk to them about it and they're like I get calls every single day from installers that are ready to sell their

own material and unfortunately you know they a lot of times they have to turn

them down but it's like sometimes they they're going to do what we did where they're going to get a warehouse they're going to get an office space and they're

going to they're going to start selling and then not only are you out that installer because you're it they tend to get mad at them

for trying to do their own thing so they're not not only are they out an installer but they're out the sales that

could have been going through them anyways yeah I I I I don't know but I'll

tell you that focusing on that uh that installation experience is always a good

thing so if that got more attention uh we'll see what you know you

you you can imagine I should say that you'd have some happier homeowners from

the end result piece uh I think we've all heard it say you know the flooring really doesn't have any value until it's

installed properly by a Craftsman so um I

wonder you know Eduardo says it's it's about relationships and that's why

people stick to Barbers for the rest of their life you know uh yeah there's a point to that but look what sports clips

did and many of the people who go to Sports Clips somewhere around 90% pick

first available when you're scheduling your appointment on the app and so because of

that yeah it's but the convenience sometimes trumps that

relationship that's why yeah and and now that I'm thinking about it I think the online thing is going to

actually be beneficial in terms of like the people that are only searching for the lowest price like I only want it if

it's going to be the lowest priced item well and and the best the best product too right like there's being

specific and when I might check ratings online but I also do my due diligence

and I go to reviews last

week it was last week talking about talking about sports clips now look at that

um like I I I go and uh I do Google reviews and then YouTube right and I go

try to review product and try to get some real life a a personto person perspective instead of just reading um

the literature that that comes online or like I don't even go to Yelp I'll be honest you guys I don't even ever look

at Yelp so I don't like Yelp because they called us all the time tried to get us to pay

them for stuff and so they they burnt that bridge with me I don't even use their webs site to for

reviews well here's the um so we talked about

like how it could work I mean it seems like technolog is there and everything and and we as we continue to get uh uh

Jose's mic dialed in we are my goodness dude we are

U we know the Technologies there I guess what what would be the best thing I did

was move it down I did retailers kind of uh uh focus on

what matters to the client the most and if they can buy the materials online they can't they they may be able to

Source labor online but they can't have that interaction with you I I still

think there's a spot that the retailers can play to just up the service uh and

you know charge accordingly for the higher service like making sure that uh

you got the right installer on your project and that the the material that

the furniture is handled with care all the stuff that like almost like a white glove service for each in installation

as opposed to um you know the way that many retailers do it today and certainly

big box stores I mean I know how they do it no offense big box stores uh oh no

they got a good system the fact is is that you you know they they ship their materials to the to the installer's web

uh Warehouse installer go takes that out on a work order goes installs and and uh

you get what you get and the last interaction they really have with a big box store is after the

sale you know I I think they follow up afterward to make sure that the install went okay but you get what I'm saying

like that white glove service might come in into play later where retailers

really have to or companies in general really have to uh

almost hold the hand of that client and make sure that they're highly taken care of so anyway I I'm I'm the least uh the

least expert in this in this realm but I thought it would be a fun conversation maybe to have well it it is because you

know like I said salespeople come in here and talk to us about it and it just as as an industry right we have to stop

being so segregated and actually talk to these people and

kind of get a feeling of where they're at and that just starts with a conversation and that's all we're doing is starting the conversation what what

we see is may not be what they see and I I would really like them to you know

listen to this on whatever platform they're going to consume it on and let us know come to us and and and correct

us if we're wrong well or or educate us educate us please um yeah

I don't think any of us are saying that that's the way to go we're just saying like the technolog is there what are you going to do about it uh that's kind of

the conversation you know yeah I mean look here I'm just gonna give you this little quick uh storyline I guess if if

if I had a retail store and I had uh those amenities available for me I would probably have um like a a three

four-step process right the process will start online and they can down to some selections there and then basically like

the prerequisite for them coming in and getting the textile so once they get everything narrowed down they can get

their budget from from the online source resource and then and then narrow it down and come on in right get

pre-approval whatever they want to do then come into the store and then get their their hands on it you know by then

we should have it narrowed down to a couple selections and colors um and if they need any help beyond that then

that's what the the Brick and Mortar is going to be for and and those resources but I'm not a retail store I don't want

to pretend to be but that that that would be the easiest way for for me based off of the way technology is going

because AI we're way dumber than AI that's for sure and all the AI needs is

a starting point if you find a good starting point and give it a good foundation It's Gonna Leave You in the

dust pretty quick well at least a large language models we we can't come up with as quick

as AI that's for sure and the design is is is out there uh I know mid Journey

can do some crazy design work stuff if you just prompt it correctly and so yeah

that the AI stuff is you know it was a buzzword for a while but it's here man

and it's it's a lot of it's happening um I'm curious how it plays into all of

this I think you know time will tell but you know at least having the conversation and having some retailers

hopefully consume a little bit of this and just even if it gets your mind click for a second and installers too like how

are you going to fit into this whole thing how are you going to you know maximize your your earning potential

over the next you know 10 to 15 20 years if you're a young guy or if you're you

know if you're if you're not and you're like I'm GNA be out of this before this all happens anyway but still how are you

going to maximize yourself and maximize your earning potential uh through this transition

possible transition I I would be confident in saying that I think some of

that's going to happen I don't know how much or or what percentage but some of

it's going to happen and if it's uh like I said earlier if it's 20% that's a significant amount when you're talking

about a $ 35 billion

industry reading has comment right here NE got to bust out a

yeah hey hopefully some they will when you get that Jorge you let me

know we'll get Hammer we'll get them Hammer rated and on the [Laughter]

network that's what it is shoot out a list for you so clo closing up because this is a

shorter podcast just from the very nature of the fact that we we um didn't

have a retailer that could get on today to help kind of spur their their opinion

of the conversation and you got you know two companies and three guys that are

more in the commercial World a little bit in the residential but not certainly not retail uh we we are doing our best

in and kicking this conversation along

um at the end of the day what what are your thoughts your your real feeling do

you think in five years that it will be a thing for a homeowner to be

able to have a good experience now they can do it now I know they can buy materials online or flooring online and

get on Angie list or something uh and find an installer and and hope for the

best but do you think in five years that they could do that measure it themselves

and have a good experience you think that's doable I think it's 100% doable based on

not only um the AI that we're seeing right now but even two years ago at

surfaces some of the manufacturers that Apple watch that we gave away was from one of the

manufacturers you know because I went to one of their meetings and it's like well

I'm not really going to use this but we can definitely give it away but that their their premise for the meeting was

what the kind of what we're talking about here the future of the retailer and having the homeowners measure

their own stuff and then we come in afterwards so we already have a basis on their their space and then kind of

what they want and then that's where the AI comes in where it can just fill their space with whatever products they're

talking about or they're they're looking at what about

you Jose add on to what Daniel said because he's exactly right um and you know I do believe that there's a

gentleman out there who who started this whole uh technology thing and doing the virtual shopping if you will for the

flooring um by putting tablets in the store I don't I don't want to say

anyone's name I don't want to get myself in trouble but um so so it's already been going on for for a couple years

right it's just a matter of how fast is it progressing and and and is it catching uh catching on with everyone um

but like Daniel said if the consumer the client the end user is has that at their

fingertips and they can sit there at a their kids concert and Order carpet or

do a measurement on a room with the information they entered while they're hanging out with their family they're going to do that and then if there's an

option to get verification um by an installer then that's probably going to be available as well for for premium

probably I mean I would definitely put a premium on it but I don't think there's

any stopping it I think uh all we can do is roll with

the punchers and and hopefully we can uh stay afloat and grow with uh with

technology yeah I think it's uh just what you said it's it's keeping up with

it knowing that it's coming knowing that it's here and then making some plans around it it's kind of scary I mean at

the end of the day I'm an old I'm an older dude uh and uh I've I had I I

remember the first phone so the first cell phone so the first phone like

1787 whatever uh no the first cell phone came out and

uh I was amazed by that and now we can buy stuff on it and like measure rooms

with our cell phones it just it blows me away but all right with that guys I'm

going to call uh call The Huddle you know out we're g to we're going to cut

the podcast we're about three minutes shy but thank you everybody for joining us uh if you like any the content

specifically on this one like comment on in our sections on our um you know on

our socials on YouTube wherever you consume this and let us know what you think we're not saying we're experts on

this obviously we're just bringing up some theories that have been brought to us and we wanted to like get some

feedback and and and hear from you guys so get in there give us a some ideas of

what you really think the the retail you know business May look like in five or

10 years and if if you don't like it tell us you don't like it just interact

one way or another it helps the channel uh hopefully the uh we kept the

sponsorships or the Partnerships in a cut down time frame that's how we plan

on them to be to not interrupt the podcast too much um if you can comment let us know how we did there I would

certainly appreciate that as well uh we have other partners that will be

uh bringing to you in the future and we' just like to know if we're if we're doing that in a favorable manner to our

audience because you guys matter to us so comment like And subscribe until next

week peace out see you guys thank you everyone

bye

The Huddle - Episode 90 - Floor Academy Crossover with Kyle Hedin

The guys are joined by Kyle Hedin, the voice behind the Floor Academy Podcast (https://flooracademypod.com). This special collaboration highlights the richness and diversity within the flooring industry's podcasting community. We delve into how multiple voices contribute to a broader understanding and appreciation of the trade, fostering a culture of shared knowledge and mutual success. By exploring different perspectives and celebrating each other's contributions, we demonstrate that the industry thrives on collaboration, not competition. Tune in as we unite the podcasting world of flooring, proving that together, we can elevate the entire field.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up team welcome to the Huddle it's your weekly Playbook where we strategize on everything from you know

installation techniques to mindset to how to run your

business more effectively we're not just playing the game we're changing it from mastering the fundamentals of our craft

and distinguishing ourselves in the marketplace we're here to ensure you are equipped with everything you need so

let's band together Forge a new Legacy in floring this is where you belong so welcome to the team speaking to team we

got a great guest today Mr Kyle from floor Academy podcast with me as always Daniel and

Jose Gonzalez preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan what's up yo

what's going on on I don't know how you got stuck with such horrible co-host man I am sorry anytime any anytime you want

[Laughter] so Kyle runs a podcast uh floor Academy

he's very passionate he's been doing it for a while uh Kyle want you tell us a little

bit about we actually uh are not live because we're getting errors from every

single platform right now well well I didn't even go live so you know what I think we just we just roll with it and

and we have some fun here hey got a choice right now I got a

in the corner that's funny and I got I got a phone on look at this we're just killing it over here after that greatt

guys so why don't you work on uh when the live comes on on your

side uh I'm good man I I'm fine I'll just get this and then I can throw it up so all right we're we're we're ready to

I'm ready to go as long as you guys are good I'm ready

get stuff ashon says we're live I don't know about the others but we're gonna keep on trucking cool so uh who am I uh

I'm Kyle Haden I formally I mean I still technically own illustrious Hardwoods I haven't figured this out yet I I'm in

the I'm in a change I stopped my installation business but it's still technically open so I'm a licensed

contractor in Arizona uh I installed from 2015 up until earlier this year

and I focused on laminate luxury vinyl plank engineered hardwood about four and a half years ago I started floor cademy

podcast because I went looking for business information as it related

specifically to the flooring industry it didn't exist it wasn't out there and I

said well I have a background from my time in reality television I know how the camera equipment works the audio

equipment works I'll be that guy because there's obviously if I'm looking for it I'm not the only one I was luckily had

enough brains to realize that there's you know if something doesn't exist there's probably more than one person

looking for it so here we are four and a half years later um haven't missed a

Wednesday since its launch so there's over 200 episodes out there of business

information for you covering the entire gamut we talk addiction issues we talk

how to figure out your numbers we talk how to plan out you know systems and processes is sometimes we just talk

about our feelings and how that is going to affect your business life on your from your personal side um it runs the

gamut but it's all great information and along the way I've been able to make lots and lots of great friends

including you know it started with Daniel that led me to the the two of them Daniel and Jose and recently that

led me to you Paul and had I had better planning on my part I wouldn't have two

episodes back toback with you in them but you know what that's how it's going to roll and so your episode I recorded

with you last week comes out came out last week and now this week they get this joint effort of this crossover of

the Huddle and floor Academy together well you know what you can't get too

much of a good thing I agree no I think it's two different it's two totally different

episodes so it's great content yeah I mean I'm shooting from the back of my truck dude H how about that we're gonna

make this thing happen one way commitment bro that is commitment right there dedication um you know what's cool

though is we talk a lot about uh the connections and getting to know you know

the industry through getting out and putting your yourself out there and networking we talked about that quite a

lot and that's how I met you that's how you met D Daniel and Daniel introduced

you to his brother Jose I mean getting putting yourself out there as an

installer um just connecting um there's multiple ways joining the podcast you

know uh whether it's floor Academy the Huddle Join one of the podcasts do some

commenting get involved in the industry and then go to conventions um there's a lot of

conventions that are more geared to the installer now at least two that I know of uh and a third happened just kind of

uh off of whim at The Summit in Dalton few weeks back so yeah you know there's

a place for installers to go now we're trying to build a community and uh have

that Community come together that's the only way that we can get what we want from the installers perspective you

can't you can't do it alone you can't just raise your prices to one shop if

you're working out a retail stores because that shop will only pay you so much even if you're the best uh but if

as a community we're all coming up and where the prices can go up the

professionalism can go up um and frankly you know our industry uh respect as a

craft as a a true craft uh will uh increase as well that's that's like our

our real purpose behind all this you know so it's great to have you you know join us on the Huddle I've been on your

podcast and you guys uh do a lot of really correct me if I'm wrong but you

do a lot of deeper dives into individual issues and get down and dirty on some

stuff what's your favorite issue you've shot uh I don't I don't know that

there's a favorite I for me like I love I I love the numbers like that's where I get really passionate is I and I I like

solving problems and coming up with creative ways I think that's where my film industry and storytelling

background comes in a lot for what I do in in this world now of of construction

is I like finding and and solving problems I've learned that I'm horrible at executing I think a lot

of uh I think a lot of entrepreneurs are is that we we end up in a role where we

have to actually go and execute plans and we're not so great at it

whereas I'm a great with the vision and I can see things and so what I've

learned especially through doing The Mastermind groups that I facilitate and

I've I've worked with Jose and and Daniel is I'm able to get an outside

perspective of your business and I can then go and say well hey what if you

were to tweak these things over here and I usually come at it from a totally different angle that no one else is

looking at it from and generally I found that it works but and that's kind of my special

skills I wasn't raised as in this industry I stumbled into it fell in love with the people and so my my take on it

is from a totally outside perspective that has nothing to do with it well I I

totally respect the the craftsmanship and the the artisanship that takes

place at the end of the day we're all running businesses or at least we're supposed to be and you have to make

money and so I I love helping people find a way to make the money and sadly the the lowest hanging fruit is to say

charge more but that message only worked for maybe the first year of the podcast C after that the people that started

charging more you can only charge more for so long before you have to learn how to be efficient get better skills better

systems better processes better networking better relationships there's

so much more that has to go into it and that's really where it's gotten exciting

is how do you have to put these pieces together well that's cool I mean it's

you know obviously a um that's typical though as you get

better in your craft uh you get a little bit more speed then you got to find the

efficiencies to start making more money and that's almost in any business there's a lot of businesses that don't make money the first couple of years

that's also the message I try to make sure that people understand you get into the flooring it's no different if you're

going to be start your own flooring business your own flooring installation company it's it's no different than any

business it's it you might make money the first year but it's a lot of investment for the first few years and

you got to have that perseverance to stay with it then you start finding those efficiencies and those uh systems

that'll help you be more profitable uh you start to get well your reputation

it's a really nice uh coalescence between the two because your reputation you start to get known for your quality

while you're doing these other things and that's when you really start to have that

what I've seen Time After Time the success comes really nicely about that

time frame as long as you're committed to the to all aspects to the Quality to

the dedication to finding more efficient methods more systems I mean these guys

both of them as well as myself grew our businesses out of

installation right I mean that's how you did it right Jose you guys were installers and and you you grew it

through becoming well known having great quality being in demand then finding

efficiencies and that frankly never stops I mean we do we're one of the largest flooring contractors in Kansas

and we're still searching for efficiencies and better methods every day oh yeah that's one of the things too

like like just just to you know let everyone know that that I did a mastermind with Kyle for a year Daniel

was also involved and through that through the program when we got to sit down with with other people in the

industry and have different perspectives that actually did help us view things in a different light like no one likes to be

told what they're when they're doing something wrong right but you have to hear it sometimes and sometimes some of

the systems that work for Kyle aren't going to work for me and what works for for me Isn't gonna always work for student Associates but it's always nice

to hear that there's different systems and different ways to implement certain things for whatever growth you'd like to have

and that's where where the Mastermind group that we were part of with Kyle um they that he hosted came into play and

um we did hit a couple Milestones as a business while we were part of that um that group and uh to say that I didn't

make some friends out of that group I'd be lying to you because you you get you get put in a position where you're

talking to someone every week and then every other week and you know and and it's an accountability group is really

all all ended up being in my eyes but we also learned from one another as well and I had the benefit of being on the

his groups with some right some pretty success UC people and that's the thing right like cuz you still do that get

together on on Saturdays and I still got the link even though I'm not part of it so I joined this

weekend in there to yeah to van and uh and Stephen cheater I must have got

deleted from that link actually it was on his calendar and then it popped up on

mine I was like let me see who's in here see what's going on uh all all good but no I think that's

that's the of it is is Jose you're not wrong it is an accountability group but I think that's what we need if we're

going to be sitting here talking about the benefit of relationships and and going and like we need to go to these events and network with

people that's what I'm looking for when I go like look going and seeing the products cool right something new came

out all right does it work for me does it not work for me I don't need to spend 20 minutes with Shaw Mohawk I can look

at a product and I kind of know it in like five minutes I I I'm I'm done I've moved on but to sit down and meet people

that are coming from different markets different backgrounds and all that that's what really gets me excited

because like you said what works for you won't necessarily work for me but there's probably benefit in knowing that

I have to find a way to hold myself accountable to that specific metric in

some way and then how I Implement that is what matters and I give me your

feedback on this uh either Daniel or Jose but I'm you know one of the things

I found is just because it doesn't work for me in the exact form that I see it doesn't mean that I don't manipulate a

little bit and find the way that it does work for me it's the ideas a lot of times uh I did a demo the other day with

a company that does this inventory management stuff and my staff was in the

meeting and they were like well I think we can uh you know I don't see how this

is going to like benefit as and we kept watching and kept watching and light bulbs started going off they were like

well even though we may not not use this platform I just got this idea what if we

did this when we received materials and what if we did that we get them delivered and they started building all

these systems and we came up with two new processes that should make us uh you know more effective and and um and

efficient at the same time so like just it's that's the magic it's not just that

it's like you're going to take something ingest it and and make it work for your

business if you have open ears if you go in with the right attitude that you want to learn something new you want that

you're never too big to uh hear something new and and absorb it I know

that I've learned from these guys I've learned from my own installer group uh

there's just really uh there's a lot of magic and a lot of synergy that happens when you come together as a team with

some common goals and share your experiences well I think com go ahead

Daniel it's a lot easier to start with something than it is from

nothing yeah 100% agree with that that's a there's that's a great great

Foundation to start with for sure there there's well that's that's the problem is that every little guy out there is

out there thinking I can't talk to my competition I can't go Network in my own market and meet people because they're

gonna steal my work and I can't help them out because they won't help me out and here's the thing your business isn't

different from your neighbor's business and if they've already got something in place why are you trying to reinvent the

wheel go grab it and steal it like that again I I don't want to plug my stuff

I'm really not trying to but one of the beauties of The Mastermind group is that as some as people develop stuff I'm

putting all of that in in the vault and so then other people come and join and they're like man I wish I had this I'm

like here you go you know you just hand it out and they're like oh my God this just saved me like 10 hours but that's

the beauty of going and muting people of it right because that you said you don't want to plug your stuff but honestly

that's kind of what we're here together for right it's a it's a crossover plug it in man like we've done your

Mastermind it's it's a it was a great time we learned a lot where where's your bandana um you know I I want to add on

to what you what you just said right there about go go to where they're at grab it take it away from them you're

you're you're you're absolutely right right but sometimes sometimes you're I don't even want to say competition but

sometimes the people you go to mingle with that are in your same Market they might have a bunch of vehicles and no drivers and you might be one of the

drivers for a little bit and you just might have to jump behind that wheel and drive a vehicle for them because because you are if you separate yourself from

the industry you're gonna have a skill set that can benefit them as well as you um especially on the labor side if you

have a set on the labor side that could benefit a company that they don't have another thing too is uh you know

somebody I forget what book I was listening to uh recently that it said the fastest way to scale up is to

acquire another business oh no it wasn't even a book it was a meeting I had downtown um um with the with their local

chamber and they were like the fastest way to scale up is to is through acquisition like that's the fastest way

because if you find a place that's already got processes and procedures and those type of systems in

place and you can you can take it take that's why franch what you're saying right there franchis work well right I

mean is with all the systems we don't have flooring franchises of installer

franchises yet the fact is is that we got to learn from one one another and

not be scared of sharing like what I would say is there's some is good that

that that is my premise of business uh you can look at why do restaurants all

Gather in the same area why do uh if you go to any part of your flooring it's

usually if you are in the same kind of area as other businesses for a reason um

it's not it's not you shouldn't be scared of it uh there's the competition is good and you can learn from other

people as we've said in this podcast but I'm telling you what Beyond uh learning

if you start to when you get really busy if you can give another installer who's

you you have their back like you know they're really good and you give them a project you are putting good stuff out

in the universe I'm telling you that will come back to you a hundredfold

you'll get more work if you are less um you know I don't want to get all spiritual on you but when you start

getting real like negative thinking and negative like yeah mindset that's when

you start thinking like it's a world of of uh of strife and like you know uh

well you get what you put into it it's pretty much what it is if if you're gonna put negativity into it you're gonna get negativity out of it you're

gonna approach everything with a positive manner then then you're gonna get something positive out of it too and

um anything that we can view as negative as as as we progressed and I'm sure a lot of successful people um have as well

anything negative was wasn't really a negative if we learned something from it if we were able to sit back and laugh

and say ah let's not do that again um then that helped us out there was nothing negative about it in the long

run at you know short shortterm view uh yeah there's how we GNA manage how we

gonna get through it you know what one of us has always said don't worry we will we'll figure it out um and that's

you don't have a choice figure it out yeah you don't have a choice another

another thing that think about is uh the flooring companies get together like you

got fuse you got FCI you got oh yeah got starnet like we get together we share

best practices we try to figure out the best thing installers should be doing the same that's what this Huddle's all

about that's what this podcast is all about it's coming together and becoming great and yeah a lot of them companies

you know we got better when we joined fuse five or six years ago I know that most companies who join them will tell

you the same thing they join starnet or they join fuse or they join the FCI and they're huge proponents of it or I think

uh commercial one's another one that has a bunch of flooring companies in it so flooring companies are getting together

installers listen to me get together start joining uh these podcasts with

Kyle the you know on floor Academy join the podcast on on the Huddle like and

then get to the conventions that really matter to you and I know even Beth Miller's on here she has a podcast too

there you go and it's not even that uh look I just went at the beginning of of

March so what two weeks ago from from when we're recording this or so I was I drove up from from Phoenix to Fresno

California and there was an event called thi it was the hybrid and advanced systems installation event so it was it

was for tile people um and they were looking at like mud work and in incorporating foam into it and like

putting the two technologies together but it was four installers by

installers and there's another event called Mud that's that's very similar that's been held in Idaho Falls uh

they're going to hold that uh they changed locations for this upcoming for this year but I and I don't

remember where but that's happening like it's a Grassroots effort by installers

for installers where I don't see that I don't see carpet people planning

events that and I'm not hearing about them I don't see hardwood guys planning their own industry events that are all

about education uh I'm not seeing Cove Base and you know vinyl guys

planning events but I think that's the next evolution is that there's all of

these coverings TI uh nwfa Expo they're

great but they're kind of for the bigger boys really and especially like Ty it's

it's more of a retailer show I love it I get to go I get to see all my friends I get to meet everybody it's great for

networking in general but at the end of the day it's a product display same with coverings it's a product display it's

it's more for retailers in my opinion than it is for the average Joe that's

running an installation company and so want the event that's where FCI and CFI

is co-mingling and doing their uh convention you you know that is the caret players like those guys get

together they're CFI strong now uh FC was there and that co-mingled some other

groups in so I I think that there's there's some the the vinyl uh life is a

little bit different like I've I've not ran that was my my preferred flooring uh

to install no pun intended gentlemen but um you know you don't see

the vinyl guys coming together and sharing heat welding uh techniques but except for at training so yeah but you

know I think that there's a uh a a Evolution going on there I think you're

right there yes that's and that I mean that's what it's turning into is it's no longer like a it's you have to pay to

get to the event but it's not a paid training it's not a paid certification it's guys that are just passionate about

it it's it's CFI but the early days like the early early days right they would

just go go and like work with a shop and and help them um that's that's what was happening is people that wanted to learn

mud work were able to learn mud work at fassy they had a thing on how to do epoxying mitered edges for like niches

and stuff and it was just a you know Josh levit who's just super passionate

about what he does and there was probably 20 guys standing around a standard like 4 foot long uh folding

table watching him work with it asking questions how do I do this better what about this how do you do you

know and it was just an expert answer it was beautiful faor kind of workshops yeah and so it's just the thing with the

tile industry is I think that the tile industry actually the manufacturers end

up supporting their installers a lot better than the rest of the industry does well okay so let's I let's look at

one of the sponsors of the show do you think that that's because because they fall under a different category for um

uh like a union they can under like the masonry and all that so they're

categorized you start to get the the biggest thing is toles still distributed it's one of the biggest

factors you get some distributor like a lot of the trainings

that happen at different um in different cities at Distributors offices H or in their

warehouse or what have you corre there those products are distributed carpet's bought direct from the mill so there's

no real Distribution Center anymore LD Brinkman was the last one and they're

gone they've been gone for 15 years um and sheet vinyl is where do you

buy your sheet where do you buy your Nora from from Nora you know a lot of that's still bought direct from the manufacturer now it gets distributed

taret gets distributed and and I think that's where the Evolution's coming in but so much of the T all the tile it's

very rare you buy direct from the manufacturer unless you're importing it from Italy

there's yes I I think that helps is that you were able to find spots easier although at this distributor we had

manufacturers there that weren't in that distributor they hadn't built that

relationship yet and so obviously one of the you know incentives was to try and make that happen but they didn't care

right they were still there they were able to show their Wares they were able to get people to and educate them about

the product and at least in my market down here in Phoenix we have a location

called uh contractor Furnishings smt which is actually more from the Pacific Northwest is where they're bigger and

have 98% of their locations uh but they don't stock any

material and then they have relationships with the same local Distributors that I was able to plus the major

manufacturers but they have a giant Warehouse that's unused right now like that I guarantee you that if you go

around to your different distributors in town your different retailers somebody if you ask them they will open up their

warehouse to you and then you just need to reach out and build those relationships with your local reps and

get them there it's really not that difficult I'm pretty sure like it would take me some work but I think within two

months if I if I put it in I could have an event in Phoenix that was showing off

if I if I wanted to combine it into all of the different categories within the flooring tille Stone Industries I could

make that happen but it's just a matter of you know to go back to relationships

you got to know your reps and I don't think enough people are even besides meeting your competition

and nobody's competition there's more than enough work for everyone right let's just build each other up and raise

the bar in our industry but you got to go and meet your local manufacturing reps and even if you don't use their

products you don't know what a client's going to ask you need to be informed and

on top of it and have that relationship because if you can it goes back to what Paul was saying if you can help somebody

you're just putting good out in the world it's going to come back to you yeah that's about creating Solutions

right that's that's what what we do solve problems we're solutionists by by by Nature yeah and um whether it's uh

solving an issue with a maybe another installer is having some problems or you go to the other side and and try to go

help a client get the right material in their house I mean we're all we're solving right we're solving potential is

call from an installer today that was asking me questions about some sheet Vino and some Flash Cove right and

granted he was not in our area but I still get those calls from people in our area from the ones that are comfortable

calling and that's how it needs to be it's it shouldn't be a matter of all right I'm going to call them because I

know they work across the country it's I'm going to call them because they know what they're talking about and more people need to open up like that just

like Beth Miller said earlier you know we can't afford to keep holding the solutions

hostage yeah it shouldn't it shouldn't be a secret industrywide for sure and I

I didn't think about you know the distributor thing on the tile side until you said something but it's it's true I

mean either look at your hat right schlutter they put on workshops with

Distributors all the time it's like like weekly they're they're constantly doing

something that's the one I haven't fig there just more Outlets there's just more outlets

and you know if you if you wanted to do a carpet seminar or something about H

hand sewing or doing flat weaves or any of the stuff that is in the carpet world

there's no distributor to go congregate around you could do it like I could do it at my warehouse and then get a few

people around but the the Distributors for tile I

mean they have they even know all the the it's also allow they know all the

installers in the area as well because those installers go in and buy their spacers they go in and buy their trials

they go in and buy their saws they're going in the distributor to buy these things so that's one of the but I'm

going into the I'm going into the distributor to buy tax strip and my you know my staple gun and my seam sealer

that you should be using and your carpet I'm still go into that same distributor to buy

tools they'll open up their space like it it's it's not just because they don't carry the product doesn't mean that you

can't get the space like they still have access to the same people I think it's I think it's a matter of if you do the

work the industry if you do the work like you said and you and somebody was

passionate about doing that work it just definitely I'm not saying that the the

distributor like EJ welon which to they would open up their warehouse and let us

do something but it just doesn't happen as naturally when the tile is there it's

all tile you always have to buy it from a distributor or a re you know if you're

a flooring company you're buying from a a distributor that's how they get their products into a market so you're not

you're not um and you know frankly carpet just to be clear here carpet's a

little bit different Beast CU it's Lo lost a lot of the market share so it's there's a lot of uh a lot less flooring

uh being covered with carpet uh you got more tile more hardwood and significantly more uh Vinyl Products so

yes yes I agree well they got that new tongue and groove carpet coming out don't they the DIY no they did the the

arrow carpet a few years ago that was supposed to be kind of that thing but I

don't even I haven't seen that in years I don't even know if they still make magnetic

flooring hey they do have that out matter of fact that they do have that yeah um so you're right about the

Distributors though guys so like um we wanted to do a certification locally right and we had a distributor lined up

and I had as a matter of fact we had a distributor ready to rock and they gave us the green light and then we had

another flooring store that we were going to go there and uh and they had the space available um the problem was

is like the attendance um to get that many people to commit locally is was

proven to be very difficult because you have to have X number of attendees in order for it to to make sense all the

way around if they're going to do it they want that that attendance right because the more people that they can get their products in front of the

better and it it does make sense but at the same

time so getting easier to for for us to to get people from across the country to

come to our area and do it than it would be to get PE local people there that's

hon that's what I'm seeing to be honest so I've tried multiple times to get a CFI certification and the CTI the

certified tile installer certification going in Phoenix all to I cannot get

they want 10 people for a CFI they want a minimum of six for the CTI can't make it happen I've tried multiple multiple

times um with with the local people I I have a local Facebook group there's over

200 people in it I can't even convert you know 10% 5% of it to

make a certification happen it's really disappointing whereas when I've seen

these opened up it is because it's opened up to a national level and it is a bigger event and it's drawing in

larger names of people that want to meet that know each other from interacting online within the online community that

you you get more people that are excited and passionate about the industry and are willing to make sacrifices to grow

their career than you do yeah in a in a local level and I always say people ask

like oh you know it's so far like why would I want to go to a certification out of state because if you're willing

to invest in yourself if you're willing to walk away from a week's worth of pay

pay for a plane ticket pay for lodging pay for the food and drinks and going

out a couple of nights if you're willing to do that that means the people that are going to that event

are willing to do that too and those are the people that I want to meet I don't want to go to a local certification and

meet the guy that's only willing to go five minutes down the road I don't think that guy has nearly as much to offer me

and and so I want to meet people that are willing to compete and be the best and make sacrifices in their life to get

better as opposed to like accept the standard mundane data day life that

comes with being an installer right it it goes back to you can you could

probably go to a work room and and you're going to see guys that are there and excited in the morning and like

really want to get out and get at it and then you're going to see a group of dudes that stand in the back and they're all bitching and moaning about how they

hate their life they hate their their job they don't understand why they're still doing it this place pays like crap

and yet they keep showing up every every day over and over and over again but it's that negativity you mentioned

earlier it is but it's it's the negativity you mentioned earlier right like it just it feeds on itself and

keeps going you made me think of something too you just made me think of something too so you

have certifications during the week versus on the weekend right so you have you have uh trade contractors who work

for themselves who are Proprietors of their own business who would rather do it on a weekend so that it doesn't

interrupt their work and then you have employees who would rather do it during the week so they can still get paid like they want to get paid by the hour and

attend a class so there's a there's a balance that has to be found there right like how do how do

you how do you uh you have any idea how remedy any of that well so as an employee if I as an employer send my

employe anywhere doesn't matter if it's the weekend I have to pay them if I require them to go the employee gets

paid so congratulations like as an employee complain about but I said that

wrong they don't want to go unless they're getting paid is what I so they don't want to that's what what they have to the the problem is no see they don't

want to go because they don't want they think it's dumb that's what I see is that when you send an employee they

don't understand what you're actually providing them and companies are set up wrong in order to actually convey the

importance the passion and and get people excited about learning as opposed

to you know they think they're going to this thing and they're like I know everything I don't need this you know

they're just that smartass in the class that's like trying to poke holes and and ruin it for everybody else that there to

actually gain something you know I great employees because every time

we've sent the guys to a training any of our employee installers they have

been absolutely um finishing the top of the class they're very happy they're very

appr fantastic they appreciate the opportunities to go learn more I think

that you know maybe to to Jose's Point employees probably are not going to go

self- elect to do a a uh training like I've paid doesn't matter where it's at

or when it's I've paid for them to go um the I I see the biggest

problem the employee installer as a group is still better trained than the

subcontractor in general um I more training they've been um they've been

there there's more certific certified body in the employee installer than

there is the subcontract not say I would buy that I but I think that's because the the guy that got himself off his

knees to do that is passionate enough to understand the importance of it well

they they some sort of structure versus learn learn as you go yeah there's some sort of structure behind being an

employee versus the learn as you go um and that's that's a huge because 80 80

plus percent around 85 to 87% of all floorings installed by subs from a

national perspective the subs are the ones we're consistently talking to about

getting trained you know and investing in yourself we use that term all the time right fellas is invest in yourself

don't spend your invest your time and when you invest your time and money into

your craft you you're going to look take money aside money is important but

you're going to be happier I was much happier when I was actually doing the stuff the right way and after I had

learned than when I was hacking and slashing trying to figure everything out on my own it's incredibly frustrating to

try to put a piece of vinyl together and not know that I was supposed to reverse the damn sheets it you know just that

kind of stuff that you you know that you don't you'll be a happier installer

being well trained people like to do they're doing things that they're good at so I that's I

I I just want to grab people so Nate Hall the comments aren't coming through

right because we been we've been having issues with the lie but I I got it over here Nate Hall says that there's like 50

to 60 people at the top of the pyramid we just need to get all the thousands of people at the bottom to to see that

value of the top and and try and get there like even even just a little bit I'm gonna so I'll

be honest here here's what I've learned my frustration for the longest time was that I am passionate about wanting to

help the guys that don't understand business they're living paycheck to

paycheck they they don't even understand that they are more than you know they say I'm just an installer no you're not

dude you're running a business like whether you realize it or not you fill out tax paperwork every year that makes

you a business even as a sole proprietor right and I've had to struggle with

wondering why am why are my listens so low why is my conversion rate into the Mastermind group so low why can't I get

this master class I want to put together going and I honestly I've come to the conclusion that you know we all get mad

as As Americans we're like oh I hate the 1centers they make too much money they suck ah it's not fair you want to know

the conversion rate for people that go into my Mastermind group 1% there's 1centers within the flooring

industry and that's who we're looking to do right and so if we can continue to

influence that 1% and expand it to only five or 10% I think we've knocked it out

of the park I I that's a great view it's

been such a struggle of like I I've just learned that I'm gonna bang my head against the wall trying to convince

people that don't want to believe I mean there's flat earthers that have literally disproved that the Earth is

flat using their own tools and yet they refute that that happened and they they

say something went wrong you can't convince someone that need when they don't want it right

it's the same FL over here man this dude is a flat earther so I I

hope so I hope he really is but send a link to the video it's the same thing as talking to an addict right you can't

help an addict not exactly until they want it themselves

and so all you can do is put it out there and hope they when when they're ready they'll latch on but if I get one

person we're one person better and I've and I know I've gotten more than one so

that that's one thing you you said about uh trying to attract them right and we've um we've learned that we've

attracted the things that we wanted out of uh being business owners or out of life in general by by not trying to

aggressively attract just going about and letting our actions um speak for

themselves and then it attracts what we've been trying to um obtain I would say um so I guess guess you just gota

gota play the waiting game right is where the the patience is a virtue thing is you got to be patient and people will

eventually see the change that has been made in the people who are making those connections even you know through

through your connections if I told you I didn't learn something from you guys I would I would be but um and I always advocate for you

I don't ever not advocate for you like oh yeah this is this is where I learned it um it's just one of those things

where got to give everything time for people to see the value in what and

information any information that anyone offers I I think it's a time thing and I think people they're always going to

respect somebody that's walk in the walk it's it's easy to talk the talk and so they want to see something of you know

the success story oh okay so you're out there you're doing it and it it really is working you know I know that I still

get crap of well you weren't an installer very long you never ran a multi-million dollar bu I don't have I

don't have to have done any of that stuff to understand what I'm talking about and being able to but you had tens

of hundreds of people that yeah I did tens of hundreds yeah I got I got T I

got tons of hundreds yes I I that I do but you know I did well for myself

understood what I was doing I just fell out of passion with it and I I think that's another thing is I I KN long I

shut down the flooring business one because it was a distraction to what I really wanted to build and there was enough income luckily in Flor Academy

that I could move forward but I've had a couple of clients call me and and they're disappointed that I'm not

installing anymore and I've had to tell them that the honest answer is I can't install your floor because I will not

deliver you what I'm promising you on paper I I am no longer passionate about

doing it which means I'm going to go there every day and be miserable doing a job which means I'm not going to give it

my all which means I'm going to deliver you a subpar project an end result

that's not fair for me to char you top dollar then how how how do you incite

the passion into an industry how do you incite passion into

an industry of of you know what's been described as you know some guys that

hate their jobs or whatever how do you do that without

um you know let me let me hear coming around to it so I

think part of it is one we have to stop telling everybody the only way to make money is to go out on their own that's

the biggest lie that's being told in this industry in my opinion we have way too many people running businesses and

doing work that were never properly trained to do the work uh so that's that's one part of it the

second part is is that businesses need to step up and actually learn how to run

a business and put in like the one of the things I've noticed is that people don't have core values mission and

vision statements and if you don't have that I don't know how you have a business because you don't know what you

stand for which means you're just winging it every decision you ever make it's not based on anything other than

how you personally feel which is horrible because your business is its own entity and it needs to stand for

something and have its own set of values to make decisions on so once you have that then employees can know where

they're going which they can get excited about because there's opportunity and they can develop a

culture based on your values which they will understand that things never change

and then when you have a positive culture along with a vision and a mission now you get people that can be

passionate because they can accomplish their goals through the offerings of

your company and that's whereas if you just keep telling everybody you know you have

these salty guys that won't train anybody I can't teach you you're going to go out on your own and steal all my work well that's not true

but you're you have a bunch of salty dudes that are trying to not train

people and then telling them the only way to make money is to go out on your own or they won't train them and so the

only way for them to learn is to go out on their own and just start messing it up like it's it's completely broken the

good news is the average age of an installer is like 55 plus so that generation isn't going to last much

longer you're right there's there's an Open Door there there's an open door for the younger Generations even if they're

at 30 years old right now and want to pick up a trade they have enough time to learn something and and find their place

in the industry and still find success um I think it'll fix itself to be honest

I I think that it's it they're just going to slowly get washed out and the people that are stepping up I noticed it

a couple years ago um I I know natural selection is gonna happen leave it up to natural selection

in the industry no no I think that there's positive changes happening but that's where I'm going and so like I I

noticed a couple years ago so I started in in June of 2015 is when I started in the flooring industry and I was getting

the industry magazines and and I was reading them and I was seeing who was writing the Articles constantly every month same people article doing more

than most and yes that's but that's me being a dork right and and I know you

guys are the same way like you want to know yes I am we just say nerds bro we just say nerds nerds I'm a Nord I'm a

I'm a Nord I'm a nerd a dork I'm a everything it could be worse you could look like this guy right here I'm sure

oh yeah I wouldn't want to look like Ken not at all uh but anyway so I was

fortunate enough to be offered a writing gig with Floor Covering installer magazine thank you Beth for making that

help making that happen and um I think within that I when I got my opportunity

I saw other younger people getting an opportunity and not that I'm young I mean I turned 41 this last year dang I

know oh I'm so old but in the grand scheme of things like if if 55 is on their way out right I'm closer to on my

way out I am the start and I started late I started at you know 32 or

whatever so but I saw a change in who was putting the information into the

magazines the magazines all started to shift towards a slightly younger audience and the age drop was about 15

to 20 years I want to say for who was putting out the content which is great

right now we have a new generation of folks that are influencing what's happening I know that um the leaders at

some of the industry organizations are older and they are starting to plan

their exit strategies and really get in order who's going to take over and you

know there's got to be like a three to five year plan at a minimum to get somebody up to speed to be an executive

at one of these organizations so I think those changes are starting to happen and the players

that are there are starting to be identified and step up and these

podcasts are part of that you know again to bring it back to me realizing that I can't help everyone and it's not going

to happen overnight 55y old dudes don't want to listen to a podcast on on average it's just not their form of

entertainment it's more for younger people that are you know 12 to 30 same

with all the technology uh that's being created put out there you know uh

obviously you know with go Carrera being a technology company that the resistance

to that age group is immense so correct it's it's a waiting game yeah you just

gotta persevere through and people want um I think the younger crowd is probably

I think this there'll be a little bit of a shift back to employee hopefully uh

and you know I mean that's kind of against my business model for go Carrera but I also am in flooring uh in in

general and uh uh you know a shift back a little bit would be I think you know

do do a little equilibrium going um could be beneficial for the industry but

I wanted to butt in real quick because I have a a board meeting I gotta get to I'm on the board of a children's of a uh

of a children's home so I've got a board meeting in five minutes so I am GNA jump

and let you guys continue that's why I'm in the back of this truck sitting out the parking lot but uh I it was a

pleasure to hang out with you Kyle and as always guys it's been a joy today

we'll see you guys next week and uh you guys continue on without me and I will

catch you um another time I hope I don't end the stream if I do this no I I'll

I'll take you right off of here real quick thank thanks Paul we'll see you see you guys but I think you know if

we want to talk about relationships look at that guy stepping up and and getting on a board for a a children's

organization within his market like you don't know who you're going to meet and where so you better go get involved in

things out like you can't just stay within flooring it's not going to work that you've got to go meet people in

other areas of life to really get exposed to everything that's that's out

there so good on him yeah and you know we're talking about going back to the employee model you I've talked to a

couple well one guy this week another guy last week and that's what we were talking about it's um I talked to my

buddy who's an electrician and every other trade has a a line that they have to follow in order to get through their

career and we just don't like as an industry and it's not just tile it's

it's carpet it's everyone and we we just don't have that and I think unless we all get together and that's every single

organization and kind of say hey we have to standardize something then we're not

going to end up moving forward and the the guys coming in aren't going to see the the light at

the end of the tunnel I I think some of it's going to come from companies like

yours there's the companies that I'm working with through my Mastermind groups which you know that's you guys

included are ones that I see 510 years down the road being the game changers in

the industry as this is already a lucrative career like if you're not making money I'm sorry but you're doing

it wrong it it's granted yes I lived in Phoenix which was a large market and I

could stumble over a a job by walking out my door and like somebody's gonna

need a floor because there's 4.5 million people here but it wasn't hard to set a

standard and say I will only sell my skills for this and if we're in that

much of a deficit of installers already and the

average age is 55 then that means more people are headed out than are coming in

so supply and demand dictates prices will go up which means it's only going

to get more lucrative from here but that also means is that well I don't want to be a

gatekeeper I have to protect my industry and I see companies like yours being the

future in saying we have a training program we have a standard way of getting you from greenhorn to Journeymen

and I can help you do that and I'll teach you the skills along the way that if you want to go out on your own I will

help you become a business owner I can give you the guides I can help you do that and that model will change it which

I'd rather see companies doing that as all these young people flood in because it's going to get to the point where you

you know you struggle right now to stay busy for a week it's it's going to be amazing to sit there and be like I don't

even have to try I'm booked out six months and I'm having to tell everybody to go away when it gets to that point

everyone and their mother is going to pick up a tool and say they can install flooring and so we have to be able to

start finding ways to sell the value and protect homeowners from making bad

decisions on who they hire and I think companies like yours are going to be the way to do that other comp that's where I

feel like it goes beyond just the journeyman aspect right right because um like Elena says we have passionate

trainers and they they have to share that like everyone sees our work you know yeah I think I think we have to

look at what happens after you're done on the floor I mean you're in that transition right now right you found

something that you love doing and it's looking at what what our industry offers

in terms of technical um sales project management all that and then training has to come

into play too and with all these new people that we need in here we need full-time trainers and we have to make

that as lucrative as installing because some of these trainers like Elena are

really really good and they should be paid you know a a wage where they can live on and be comfortable and train you

know 100% of their time the the money that I've I think we just talked about this the

day well it's the you know I've heard some of the numbers that are getting thrown out for the people to go do the

training for C or not CF um fcef Flor covering Education

Foundation right they're getting all the programs into the local vocational and technical colleges and whatnot across

the country and I've heard the numbers of what they're willing to pay those teachers and it's not FC's fault right

it's it's just what the college can pay and whatnot but no I can't go be a

teacher for you know especially in Arizona where I don't know why we have any teachers here we're one of the wor

worst in the country right they're making like $30,000 a year that's why would I leave a career making $100,000

plus to go make 30 you know I I could and I get it okay I can be really really

passionate about what I do but I also want to have a a good way of living and

I'd like to be able to retire someday and so there has to be this balance um I

I just saw somebody that was a installer um got in an accident and

they're they're wheelchair bound now and so they were struggling to run their business I know he just posted that he got hooked up he's going to get the he

got a job at you know the place we all love Home Depot and he's you know the Home Depot is super stoked to have him

on payroll with his knowledge and experience to help all the diyers and

and people coming in to buy product he's of huge value to him but I

guarantee you that there's no way Home Depot is paying him what his actual worth is yeah he's probably making like $13 an hour or something I mean I hope

it's closer to you know 25 but it's it's stuff like that right like how do you you have we have to find a way to sell

our our skills and get our work so I'm going to go back to the electrician that I know right because we talked about the

the education that they have to go through and that's where you know we will pay for our guys to go to trainings

and stuff like that right and then you look at every training it's a minimum of you know almost $700 at this point and

not only that you have travel costs and everything when electricians you have to go to class on your own time and

depending on you know how far you you are into it it's one day a week could be two days a week it it doesn't matter and

the the company will pay for that but they're only paying like between $4 and $800 per semester for these these people

and they're going on a weekly basis sometimes you know twice a week so until we get some programs like that set up

we're kind of behind in every single industry too that's the succession plan right like

that's the plan that is presented to them uh upfront they understand that there's a path that they have to take and that's part of the path and and it's

under and that's part of um well there's not enough okay so the

electricians have their all a lot of the trades right you got to go back and you got to look at there was a strong union

presence especially on the East Coast years and years and years ago there still is a big Union presence on the

East Coast and so the electricians are their own Union the plumbers are their own Union when you start getting into

flooring we you know Hardwoods fall under carpent under the Carpenters but I

don't look at it that way like I okay it's wood but it's not doing a wood floor is not like framing a house right

and then where's carpet fall where's vinyl plank fall the tile goes under masonry so now you're already split

there but then you have plumbers that are told they're responsible for pans in some parts of the country

and then the tile guy comes and finishes the rest whereas in other parts the tile guy can do the you know the Bas Plumbing

with the pan and everything and so there is no standard and what's always baffled me is that I can turn on late night

television if if I had TV and I know I could still flip through the channels and I'm going to see an advertisement

for Universal Technical Institute so I can go work on a car I'm gonna see a advertisement for their motorcycle

branch I will see an ad for a welding school I'll see an ad for an HVAC school

driving a semi right all of these things where is the for-profit flooring I I don't like where's the guy

that's going to build some dorms on some property and put up the for-profit

flooring school well that's the thing it doesn't have to be a guy that does the school

it's if we get it into colleges like some of these other programs are one it

becomes like you can actually people can companies can afford to send all their

guys there all the time and then two it's People Like Us well like say

there's three classes a week well and they're at night so I'll go do one he'll

go do one someone else will go do one and it's it it makes it that much easier to where we're not having to travel

everywhere so I can see the the benefit into kind of what fcef is putting out there in terms of getting these things

in colleges it's just how do we get the guys that are already in the industry on

board to be able to teach what they know yeah well and I mean that goes to a you

know a theoretical that I've thrown out there is everyone's always I can't find any good help it's because you're not

recruiting man like you can't why aren't you going down to your local high school go talk to the talk to

the school board go talk to the principal at a high school and say hey I have myself and you know four or five

friends from different trades and we would love to get in front of your students what can we do to build this out as you said I don't have to go teach

every class but if I volunteer once a month to get in front of these

kids that's a huge difference and well you're increasing their social capital too and that does help ye yes and that's

exactly it is you want to know why nobody wants to do what we do because one they've been told that college is the only way and two that they don't get

any exposure what how many kids actually get to see a tiled shower go in or carpet installed or some other type of

floor angly we're a hidden trade I say this all the time like I can I can drive

down the road my kids's going to see a road construction worker they're going to see a painter they're going to see um

like a framer right I can see all those things as I drive around and buildings go up but I don't see the Finish trades

they're hidden inside so I not only that there's a stigma to these people too

right we call them helicopters and sometimes they're kids sometimes they're adults but when they do see it they are

very interested and then we end up getting mad at them because they're hovering over us all day instead of being like hey you're interested in this

let's you know let me explain to you what I'm doing and we we've been on job sites where you know there's kids there

and these kids you know they they take all of our scraps and then they build something with it and that's kind of

where where you have to start and yeah you know um we talked to to Carlos with

um nfap and he said that they're not they don't have an issue with getting the kids in they have an issue with

placement so what can we do as an as an industry to that's where the the

employees come in right because you have to be able to place them somewhere where they're not just going to be out fending

for themselves and then throw them to the Wolves here you guys are basically business owners now go try and make some

money or or put them with someone that's going to be like all right you're my you're my 1099 employee which is not a

thing by the way that's a we got an episode

no it's not a thing don't it's when you get taken advantage but yeah I mean you're right it's how do you how do you

place them when there's not good placement options and again I think that

comes down to if we got to send them three states over then that needs to be something that's said on the way in the

door to to doing it is I have options for you but the best companies I can

find are not local you're going to have to look to relocate and and maybe that's where us as employers need to step up

and say I got money I can I can throw a little in towards relocation but if

you're actually getting a young person that's passionate isn't that worth it what's what's $1,500 $2,000 towards

helping a kid move that's going to you know help you grow your business long term well that's where I I just it's

it's not even the the younger kids right it's other installers that are have been

in it and are still looking to relocate you can do that the same way and

it's just hard because the installers that have been in it don't get that same love from the industry

that the the the newer people do and so there there you go that's kind of what

we have to like how can we some of these organizations help these guys that have

been in it but still need a little bit of help in order to get elevated so theoretically if if we find

a way to have existing installers have a path to get off the floor but still stay in the industry that they know right

then in turn in return they'll find a way to attract other new faces to come

in because in order for them to get out they have to find someone to come in um maybe we're focusing on the wrong thing

instead of trying to attract people we need to try to create a path for people uh in the industry and start with the

existing installers versus trying to get new faces and and maybe that will inspire them to find a solution to to

get we have to get something set in Stone and then everyone to buy into to what we're putting out there

this is the path this is what you can do and then it's ultimately up to you like how much do you want to learn to go to

the technical side are you a a a a salesperson can you teach not because

not everyone can teach yeah oh yeah correct uh but I think that's where we have to go back to that employee

model when everyone's out on their own fending for themsel you can't see what

value someone could bring to the industry as a whole because they're struggling they're too focused on the

parts they're struggling with as opposed to the part they're good at whereas when you're running an efficient and

effective company you can say hey you're really good at marketing I want you to go do that and hey you're really good at

installing I want you to do that hey you're really good at training I want you to start training all our new guys and hey you're really good at sales and

I need a new salesman so you go do that you can start plugging people in where they fit best because you can really

hone in on their skills and grow those skills but if everyone's separated you

know I'm having to focus on all the things that I hate doing because they take me longer and I don't get to do

enough of what I actually enjoy so I think that employee model will help do

that um you know you got to look at a company like Jason Goldberg's America's

Floor Source he's just out you know you talked about it's easier to acquire companies to grow and that's where he's

at is he's not buying market share and starting up new stores he's out buying

up entire you know little mom and pop

retailers that have multiple locations at this point and and gaining market share that way but it's because those

companies are already built up so much they have systems and processes in place he can walk in and say Here's the new

stuff you follow these rules now this is how we play and I'm sure all of them are close I've been trying to line up this interview for a while and I'd love to

get it because I want to know why he's doing it this way but I can look at it and kind of assume uh so he's able to

throw stuff in and say okay we're going to change this this and this everything else stays the same let's go and he can

send in a couple of his team members to to his new location have them up to speed within a month probably and Off to the Races they go

and now everyone's doing it the America's Floor Source way and he doesn't have to worry about it whereas

for you guys at at your side if I threw a if I throw a new employee at

you what's that what's that look like to get them up to speed and into the system right it could take six months and

that's not a knock at you it's that it's just not all the all the pieces are there yet let alone if you were to try

to acquire somebody I I just don't see that happening at this point like I think

there's a at our size we are the the person that someone acquires well no but you can so but you

would you could acquire an owner operator right and you're going to bring him in

and I okay hey we need your contacts and and work volume but you don't want to do

it anymore so you come be an employee for us and we'll we'll take care of you here's your benefit package all that fun

stuff right you could do that kind of a thing and then you would acquire their tools and and their

contacts but then how long does it take to say no no no you can't do it your way

anymore we've been for a flooring way and and they've gone because that I

got to be the bad guy to let you guys know that we are running a bit over so I don't know yeah that that was the thing

you know we've been through that and when they left that was their their quote to me was I need to do things my

own way that's that's all that needs to be said go do things your way and and

that's fine but you know what that's the problem with the industry is that not everyone can be that stubborn

not every you somebody's going to have to bend and there's a reason that you are running an inefficient business and

we're still here and growing right like let's let's be a big boy and girl and look at it and and swallow the the tough

pill and admit we're not the greatest thing since slice bread and move forward

so I I think you know we we'll try and wrap things up right and it kind of comes full circle in the conversation to

to really kind of why we're on here it's that we're all in it together and it

doesn't matter if you look at someone as competition or not what really matters is that it doesn't really matter at the

end of the day because that person can be your partner that person can Elevate you you

can Elevate them and that's kind of why we're here it's Kyle I still listen to

your podcast all the time I haven't been to the gym in a while and that's when I usually do so I'm going to have to get

back to it me too what we'll do together man accountability buddies how about

that that's exactly it I mean that's that's what it comes down to right is we just need more accountability in this

industry yeah I think I think that's where we're unique is that we've all

taken that step and become accountable to know that without doing something

personally to help the industry it'll never change so we just project that out to everyone and then hopefully it it

starts catching traction which I think we've all done a great job I mean a lot of people know us that don't necessarily

know us personally and that's huge and to to talk to these guys on a platform

that anyone can really go on and and benefit from um we're just unique in

that that in in the industry man not not a lot of people are doing it so thanks

for everything you do Kyle um give yourself a plug before you get off though bro I was I was going to say

everyone make sure you go you know listen to Kyle's podcast it's great information man I wouldn't I wouldn't be

where I'm at if Jose and Daniel didn't buy into what I was putting out there early on D honestly no Daniel was one of

the first Daniel was in the very first Mastermind group Jose hopped in the second one so you know they were early

adopters they believed in what I had going on they were supporters of the podcast um but you know I wouldn't be

where I was at if I didn't see what they were doing you go meet the gon family in person and you are instantly being made

fun of you are you're just you become a part of the family very very quickly they make it very you just you fit in

and so it's it's awesome and they're huge they they you can't miss them if

you go to a show because they're the people wandering around in a pack of like 10 to 20 people they brought Mom

with with backs right like yes and they got backpacks but like you know it's wives it's it's employees like they

putting ourselves out there big um and that's that's great right and so I've was inspired by that I was

inspired by many people you're wearing Ken Balon shirt you know he he was a big part of me being able to do what I'm

doing right now um so I appreciate everyone that supported me I appreciate everyone that is passionate about this

industry and wants to see it change and laid the way for me to be even be doing

what I'm doing right now because I'll tell you what growing up Podcast didn't exist so who you got to give yourself

some credit too because you're putting you're putting in the work you're putting in the work it doesn't just happen on accident organically you're

putting in the work so you gotta give yourself some credit on that I look it's it's we can continue this conversation

afterwards probably I would okay so go uh check out check out Flor Academy

pod.com if you want to see Flor Academy you can find everything over there on the website everything on the website

he's on all the platforms as are we so you know make sure you like And subscribe to everything that we got

going on Kyle we appreciate you and thanks for uh thanks for doing this crossover it was an amazing time yeah

know it was great thanks we can talk for yeah we we'll have to do we'll have to do another one maybe you know I don't

know how soon but we'll do it so thanks guys and we'll we'll see you guys uh next week sounds

The Huddle - Episode 89 - Project Site Conditions Impact on Profitability ft Scott Banda

The guys are excited to host industry expert Scott Banda (https://floorcloud.com). This session dives into the critical yet often overlooked aspect of how job site conditions directly influence project profitability. We'll explore the tangible benefits of real-time monitoring, showcasing how staying ahead of environmental and logistical challenges can not only prevent costly setbacks but also enhance overall project efficiency. Join us as we discuss strategies and technologies that empower professionals to anticipate, adapt, and act, ensuring that site conditions contribute to, rather than detract from, the bottom line. Tune in to turn potential pitfalls into profit.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email thehuddleforwardprogress@gmail.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up team welcome to the Huddle it's your weekly strategizing session on

not only playing the game but changing it from mastering your craft to learning

how to better display yourself in the industry you're you're our type of

people and you're where you belong welcome to the team all right fumbled there a little bit I almost got it guys

you'll get one of these days God all right so uh with me as always Mr Daniel

and Jose Gonzalez from Grand Rapids Michigan although only one of them is there today Mr Jose

down Georgia representing from the fcca

uh midyear convention I believe is what they call it Y and we got Scott Banda

from Flor cloud with us so Scott welcome aboard glad you could join us today

hey thanks you are you are in the best uh possible um episode for your product

so tell us a bit about you and uh Scott's with Flor cloud and uh he's

going to give him a chance here to tell him a little bit about himself and and and what floor cloud is sure Paul thanks

thanks for having me on this is a great opportunity and we appreciate it so um just a little bit about me and my my

business part um I was the one that uh was nominated to be on camera but Pat has another obligation but um you know

you both are very good-looking guys so hey we'll take either one of you I don't know I seen that email that said that he

has a face for radio [Laughter] so oh that's great so uh both of us have

been in the flooring industry for about 25 years um 16 of my uh years were were

at bosk where I was the director of marketing and business development for North America and uh Pat mullins's

experience he started a company by the name of CMP cements and um they man leveling

underlayments to primers moisture barrier Coatings patches things like that and we came together because um at

bosic we were looking to build out our product line of Surface Prep products and they were a regional brand expanding

West and uh we liked a lot of their products so we put together a deal and we acquired their company so Pat and I

got to know each other from that and worked there for a few years and then uh realized that when we saw some

of the sensor technology that was really coming on the market we felt that we could put together a system that would

help all types of contractors basically identify issues in real

time that would help um really SES and headaches from installation related

failures or or uh redo and and things like that uh not only just flooring but

all the other interior finish trades you know trades that are frequently impacted by building controls if the climate

conditions aren't really maintained in the proper uh range

so that's a little bit about me and how floor Cloud really was

conceived yeah so that falls right in line with our topic of the day you know

project side conditions and their impact on profitability so I mean we couldn't

have a better guess right we talk about it all time you know like I know in past

podcast we talk about showing up to a job and it's like concrete's too cold

there's moisture everywhere and that that's really what what you guys are trying to to put in in front of everyone

before you even get to the job site so that that's amazing yeah exactly Daniel I mean um

Paul do you want me to touch a little on how it works or or do you well let's do this from the very beginning let's talk

about how important it is that site conditions why does floor cloud or any

any of of this matter like what is so important about the site conditions and

how does it impact our profitability so one of the things I'll I'll just throw it out there is as a Commercial

contractor myself there's been plenty of times when the site conditions not only

didn't match like specs and this is where I want you to dig in and uh really

tell us about how Flor Cloud does some of these uh uh product specific uh

notifications but um you know Not only was the job site not in condition for a

certain product it was in condition in a lot of ways to even be doing any finish

work whatsoever uh we still run into that uh we have a project at the moment

uh I can't list it or else uh my client will kick me in the old rear end but at the end of the day we have you know

plastic on covering uh uh the windows and we got a 50 degree slab over here

and 20 feet away it's 78 and the the humidity is different and every

different area and we're like these are thermoplastic products they're going to expand and retract what's going to happen when you

kick on the hbac what's going to happen when you do get this enclosed one thing I can tell you is I

don't know but it's not going to be good you know uh the manufacturers will give you some ideas of what's going to go bad

but what that does though if we send a crew out there um obviously it's wasting that

cruise time huge impact on profitability and we're big on if we can make Cruise

successful and and make the cruise profitable then they're going to be it's

going to benefit the flooring contractor that uses them so you know uh guarding

the installers profitability and then we got to go out there then so then now it's

we're just taking the burden on and it's our project manager our installation manager our people going out there to

survey the site and look at it right um so some of the stuff that we're talking

about is like huge impacts on your profitability a lot of this gets brushed under the rug and overhead but the fact

is is it shows up and if you spend 4 hours with an executive level person out

on your job site if you pay them anything you've lost five six 700 bucks

so um you know that's how I kind of look at the the profitability impacts and

that's only talking about you know the um the uh am you know the temperature

when I say site conditions because this goes this will go a little deeper than just the temperatures and things that

you guys monitor it's also like the floor conditions and the substrate conditions and all of that stuff so uh

Scott you have a very particular feature of of floor Cloud that I love and just

to set this up it's basically once the products for a project are uploaded you

don't only tell them if the Project's out of spec for in a general term you're

telling them which prodject are out of spec yeah versus side conditions is that right that is my favorite yeah that

that's totally right so big part of what we have right so we have the mobile and desktop software we have the floor Cloud sensors we tie into Wagner uh the rapid

rhl 6 is for concrete temperature and relative humidity and then we have our database and the database is a really

powerful uh tool for us database is is made up of over 18,000 products and

we're always adding products to it manufacturers are are actually providing a lot of their data to us um but

basically that's where we keep the really the most critical specifications that the

contractor needs um which are basically range ambient relative humidity a

dupoint and then concrete slab relative humidity and temperature ranges um that

stuff is really what is being measured um or compared against every

hour so the way our stuff works is one an ambient or even a Wagner as well

every hour We're comparing the site conditions against the manufacturer specs of the products that you're

working with and there's no limit to that you know it could be a hundred products it could be one product and if

things dip out of this spec range because building controls get turned off GC um whether it's you know

heat or AC or too dry or too humid you will get an alert and it'll be specific

to the product that's impacted to to the level of detail of what what product

what section of the job and the Delta that it is off the

manufact sense if it's only two degrees off okay if it's 10 15 all right we may

want to get in touch with the manufacture and get a little more guidance here or what not if we should proceed yeah so to bring that around for

like the audience and our our installers that kind of uh you know frequent our

podcast that means less trips to the job site where you find out you can't install that's from an installer

standpoint that is your biggest thing and for companies I mean saving time and your your cruise efforts I mean you guys

up in Michigan I can only imagine there's you get projects ever so often that are of the size that this really

matters I mean am I right am I right I think we get I think we get more projects than

that especially during the the colder months where this is a very important

piece to have um the not only in the commercial but also

you know if if needed maybe a residential aspect and to some extent but let's just stick with the commercial

industry right now like it would tell us so much and to have a report and I'm

sure that we would catch on to the what's trending on that project whether or not we should even make a phone call

or share information to say I don't believe you guys are ready um and this is why but not only that is it gives us

it gives us literature to submit with backing from the standards required for

specific materials for us to not only have an argument with uh the general or

the site conditions period but it has it has that data to back it up and that is

that is worth its weight and gold in some conversations to especially to the to let's just say the old school ones

were like no we have a deadline we need to meet it and it's like well we can meet your deadline if we're not going to

proceed but if we were and it fails what does that do for your client what does that do for you what does that do for us

so Scott tell us a bit from your background I mean where you came from what do manufacturers how do they

approach this stuff if an installer or a company in installs product outside of

the correct project site conditions what happens with failures well I think first

of all um really from all the man and I'm working with more manufacturers now than ever um you know the manufacturers

of course don't want to get involved in claims um it's it's litigious it's expensive claims

investigation um and then the amount of honestly noise and meetings that go on behind the scenes at the corporate

office it's tremendous um and they really do I believe generally uh stick

with their contractor and kind of come to the table but you know they they

provide guidance for reason I mean these products have as the as the market creates more and more

sustainable sensitive products um this stuff's become more important than ever

um you know they're going to they're going to always defer to the published literature um but behind the scenes what

they come to the table with really depends I'd say on of the people involved from what I've seen um you know

and our our system and we're we're starting to get recommended by more and more manufacturers because um they they

see it as a way to help people just be more productive Paul like you're talking about I mean it's it's the data

that objective um that can be presented to the stakeholders the you know you can

provide it to the general contractor you're going to say listen based on these material specs this site is not

ready and we're going to be in Jeopardy of having warranty problems so you may want to take this Mr GC and pass this to

the owner who's pressing you so you you really help them have a more objective

you know even keeled logical professional uh meeting and conversation

once the data is in front of them and that's what we're seeing all over the place and I will say this what we've

seen again we we have about 130ish clients around the US and Canada

now saying the same thing that you know unrelated to one another they're saying this is the data that's allowing me to

push back and get these site conditions to what they need to be and well yeah I mean before how how how do like how did

you how would a company and I'm flooring contractor myself like how would we even

go about producing something that is going to uh be sufficient from a a like

hey we went out and looked and we take a picture of our fluke it's like you know and and maybe a picture of the moisture

yeah reading like it's it's it's kind of I mean it's first world problems because

we didn't have these types of things you know 15 years ago but still there's a

more efficient way um and it allows you to create a report and send it to your GC and you can even add your GC to your

to that particular project if you wanted from my understanding that's 100% right I mean

you know as to what you more or less alluded to you know it's manual with

with manual comes time running back and forth potential errors transcribing readings um and then a bit of the the

honor System so you know with our system and what you just said about putting the

general contractor on it and then not and it's a great way for the flooring contractor or any really sub to to get

close with their GC is say hey this is technology we're using a monitor site we'll give you

put you on the system you can see everything I can see and it really does strengthen the relationship between the

sub and the GC and everybody's s rearranged the schedule if it's too cold in one area you know they're not going

to want to put down a rubber that you know could be a $300,000 problem a month

later what do you think Daniel I think he's absolutely right I think it's like

is it beneficial for us absolutely but it's more beneficial for the DC

because they're the ones that are you know inevitably they're the ones that are going to have to come out of pocket

if anything happens right I mean we would like to think anyways but I mean

for them to see everything that we see and in real time and say hey this isn't

ready and here's a link you know so you can see exactly what I'm talking about instead of me having to do a report and

then them coming back with well is this report accurate yeah you're you're seeing exactly what I'm seeing at that

that exact moment and that's yeah that's absolutely beneficial for the the

industry that's great technology right there and you know that Daniel made a good point it just brings um like we

were on a a project probably 10 years ago where the it was in the middle of

summer there was you know no HVAC and they're trying to have us install this sheet vinyl and the adhesive is not

setting up and it's just something like this would have been really really beneficial 10 years ago when we were on

that project but you know it wasn't around but it is now so that's where you can start implementing things and and be

ahead of you know showing up on that job site and trying to explain to them that it's not ready yeah so for the installers out

there like ask your company if they know about floor Cloud uh if you're working

for a a shop I mean ask them if they if do they know about floor Cloud um can

toss up the QR code probably here yep I'm about to do that right now and uh you know QR it and send them there and

and and have them look at it because it can it's not just a company benefit this

is really uh strives to uh you know reduce the amount of time that you're

going out to the job site so I do have uh a bit of a push back for you Scott so

I'm gonna throw you a curveball here what do you say to the flooring companies and installers who say this is

the gc's responsibility why are they not buying your like why are gc's not just

adopting and putting your stuff in and then reporting to us yeah no it's a good

question um I'll tell you the gc's are probably we're approaching maybe 15 16

gc's um and that's great there're when we have the conversation with the gc's

it's interesting they are usually thinking of mill work drywall wall coverings and then they're

kind of like oh yeah and flooring but um damn we always get walked on yeah it's

kind of it's interesting um but what I would tell you is that the number one

reason and is the flooring contractor the sub wants to control the data

themselves so you know that's propri it's stored in your own job file in the cloud and you own that data so a year

later if there's a problem you can go back and you can get that data and have control over it that that's what I would

tell you is the number one reason and there's been plenty of jobs I was just on one in

Boston yesterday um two contractors were on there flooring contractors and the GC

had floor Cloud so now there's a big property so they're all doing different things but

um I think there's a place for it to really coexist with the GC having it as well well that's a good point a very

good point I would like to uh so the the quick and easy answer is you own the data and if there's a problem later you

got something to go back to and say we were in conditions when we installed yep

yep that and that's going to tie right into what Daniel had said too in uh the

when it's the honor System when we take take our own reports and we have everything written in pictures it is it is during the time that that was that

test was done that particular temperature was taken this Avenue is a

consistent reading you know or constant reading video not a photograph that's

right right yeah it's not a a part of time it is time yeah it's like it's like

I didn't I didn't Photoshop this picture that I took you guys of of this test right here this date is real like my

picture is timestamped but this is timestamped way more often with less visits it it really eliminates the yeah

I don't want to say time that we've wasted going back in and Babys set projects right but it gives you time

back yeah to focus on other things yeah I mean I'll tell you guys how people are most commonly using it um they use it

early put it on the site early to do kind of P what you were

alluding to and that appropriate to to send the labor there because there's nothing worse than sending labor and

it's 40 degrees there and you can't do anything and then they have to be redeployed that's a real cost but the

other thing I I I was just at a couple different conferences one was starett's Tech Summit the other one was fuse's

conference and a common theme at at my Bo saying that

um you know obviously the importance of acclamation of everything you know

essentially any of the resilient products the Rubber products and hardwood products is critical and you

know this is a great use to help you monitor acclamation too just putting stuff on putting material on site you

know and saying yeah it's going to be there for two weeks so it's acclimated there's no need for that risk you you can have a sensor in that room you can

see exactly for yourself if windows are getting opened or doors and whatnot and respond to that and then really truly

only install it when you know it's ready that that alone becoming one of the most popular uses we have and then of course

during the installation but then also guys are leaving these sensors behind a couple weeks or even a month just

because flooring contractor could do a phenomenal job you know the most intricate work medallions you name it

and be off the project and then all you need is somebody else the owner to turn

off the controls because they think it's all done and then the and then the flooring contractors getting you know brought to

the table about you don't know how to do an adhesive installation you're like really we we've been there on a project

not not long ago yeah me too let's tell some more stories man I think we've

already talked about this project but it was you know it was a church and they turn the the HVAC

off uh when no one was in there and then it's not something that you know then

issues start happening and yeah you start getting all investigative and they

they try to blame it you know everyone is blaming someone else but yeah essentially you know once you start

asking the right question things start coming to light and it's like yeah this is why and you start

asking the right people yeah and it's just something that right and it and it

sucks right because you don't want to add to the problem and say it's going to cost this much more it's like how can we

come together and all solve this issue that happened it's not I don't want to be that person and say nope it's your

guys' issue it's like what can we do to help at the same time right yep yep and

you know I had a I had a Sports floor that did the same thing they ended up it

it was an out building with its own HVAC and they turned that sucker down to 50 deges when when it was not being used so

five six days in a row it'd be down in the 50s and then they wonder why they start having

failure uh you know we went back and took care of it uh one time and then the

second time I was like I've got to charge you for this you're going to have to keep this within 7% of what you're what your day-to-day

temperature is I tell them seven I've heard up to 10% difference so if you're going to be a 72 you can be down you

know seven plus uh or minus a bit uh degrees from

that um but you certainly can't go from 72 to 50 all the time and then Crank It

Up to 72 when you have basketball games or whatever in there I mean it

just yeah it just it it destroys flooring how often do um have you heard

Scott from uh your clients that they do leave it behind and you said a couple of

weeks is that fairly often they doing that um I'd say guys that are on it um

now that have been on it for a while are definitely doing that and then we always start to we're trying to share as many

examples of successes um and once we start to do that we need to do a better job of that

but once people start to hear that um they get it like you're your example of

the cooling one um you know Northeast Midwest all these hot areas when they're getting schools ready as you guys know

super tough uh timeline things are generally um not that cool they're

they're they're uncontrolled and then they slam on that HV AC crank the AC and the sites that

have our sensors basically you'll get an alert right away you know you might see some gapping where it starts but you'll

you'll be alerted early on and you can get in there and let somebody know that hey that's that stuff supposed to be cooled you know one degree a day for

seven days or whatever I I'm I'm convinced you know a lot of these mistakes AR um there's a lot of

materials not everybody knows the nuances behind it um but you're really kind of taking all those mistakes off

the table if you keep this thing there for a couple weeks um we had 110 unit

condo complex out in La it was like 105 degrees out there same thing was lvp

they got in there saved that there was a massive um Mondo job in Connecticut that

we saved um because the owner had turned off the controls um not the GC the GC

was sent the alert they got in there over the weekend turned it all back on and I was told by that contract

thousand you know argument um so though it you know for the cost of having floor

Cloud on there for couple weeks or a month it it's peanuts compared to what what it's

saving yeah and you could be the hero and you can be got a question for you Scott um and sorry to interrupted their

po but uh does does uh do these sensors uh have

the ability to uh measure negative positive air pressure um so they measure uh

barometric pressure is that is that what you're referring to so primarily for um

locating the device so they are GPS track within 30t but then if you go

vertical um we have the ability to look at barometric pressure which will tells you how far above sea level the unit is

so you can get a sense of what floor it might be on uh I'm curious why why do

you yeah the reason I was asking is um is you know we do we do a lot of work in hospitals and in hospitals whenever

we're creating dust we have to create or someone has to create a negative airspace right so that that way it's

contained um and we're trusting that they've done that and if they didn't

then if for some reason we create some dust or if we're there for a a long period of time um the residuals that

that are created um can go all over the place and I just didn't know if it was

uh sensitive enough to to know the difference between the negative and the positive air pressure

that needs to be created based off of um what the requirements for the

hospitals that we're working in yeah so that that's a good one I've actually never heard that one I've heard do we

have sensors to monitor air particles so when you're doing Hospital work and trying to adhere to all the Hipp laws um

you can have a sense of you know what might be coming through the curtains

um but I'm I'm actually going to talk to some of the technical team on the Verizon side about your question and

I'll let you know because that's a good one aome okay

so back on the topic here uh obviously it's the you're kind of uh you kind of

are the topic uh for this but in in void

of floor cloud guys you still need to obviously side conditions are like you

got to do it the manual way I mean you got to get out there and make sure your side conditions are correct because

manufacturers when you you may have a great relationship with them uh but not

always I mean if you if you don't do a ton of foro and then you do a foro job

and it fails you're gonna you're not going to be you know buddy buddy with uh foro or what have you so uh the key here

is you know kind of getting out to your job sites uh checking in on it even installers uh you know get with your

your your company that you work with or if you're doing a job on your own you know making sure those side conditions

your ambient temperature your obviously your moisture and your Rh your concrete your D points those things are really

valuable information for you to make sure that your flooring's going to perform now on a part that floor Cloud

can't solve for is I don't think guys's substrate conditions uh past uh humidity

and and temperature so doesn't tell you how much you you have to

sweep or how messed up the the concrete is or um but

when when you're faced with those conditions when you guys have get get out to a job

site what let me ask you it this way you got a new project it's a remodel you

know the substrate's going to have something but we can't always assume when we're bidding jobs that every floor

is just demolished and we're going to have to cap the concrete we'd never get a project right so how do you guys go

about that when you first like how early do you get out to your job

um and and look at the substrate and start you know having some considerations for floor prep or

grinding or those kinds of things that's depending on the deadline

um and how far out it is and how compressed our schedule is at the moment you got to be out there at least two

weeks prior to um so that way you have a little bit of time to adjust especially when it's a prep issue

um we don't I love it when the GC tells me like hey this floor is jacked up you

need to come look at it but that just doesn't happen all the time unfortunately for us we we do know

a lot of the the generals and they they will tell us right away hey you know I know that half of this building is brand

new construction but the other half isn't it didn't come together very well we got a peak we're probably gonna have to level this side to bring it up or

grind or you know we get the luxury of we got we get spoiled a little bit

with the communication but that's because we were very thorough in creating that relationship and expectations on our side um but larger

on definitely gota get out there two I say two weeks it's a it's pretty pretty standard I

believe yeah I try to get out there as early as possible I figur we

can't you know um fight that battle too early um it would be interesting Scott

do you guys ever plan on adding cameras to your sensors so another big problem

with flooring with us is we take up a huge amount of space one of the reasons we're so disruptive on a job site yeah

is like you can have a room packed full of stuff and still paint the wall y you

can't have a room packed full of stuff and still put in the floor right so a

lot of times you know uh I'm thinking of a project right now that we're doing

where um we're getting out there early doing some floor prep and little bit

early but you know you get all the all the prep done

and your guys are getting ready you know go out there and start sanding floors and and doing stuff and you get there

and the room's absolutely packed full of stuff like it just packed full of every

other trade stuff right where you're supposed to start yeah um do you guys have a future plan of adding a little

nice little camera to the outside so guy like me goes out sets a sensor

monitoring my site conditions and I can actually have eyes in the field yeah so that has come up um a handful of times

it is a capability we could launch there are sensors that we can connect right into what we've built our platforms

really into all different sensors um we're just kind of a little apprehensive

to do that right now because we're worried about people feeling that you know it's a big brother thing and you

know are those sensors going to go missing because of that um we probably

Paul you know as as we're kind of bringing this first step of sensor technology to the market the follow on I

think as everybody kind of becomes socialized to what we're doing now will be what you're saying into probably more

cameras still shots originally but of course videos can as well just gets into

be a big data hog and a lot of space in the cloud and all that um but I could

see that coming out yeah I just curious if you guys were thinking about that and if that had been brought up um I mean

just getting every hour would be uh would be you know awesome addition and and what

you guys already have is is great obviously and and serves a huge

need just thinking in the future as you guys you know uh mold your business and

and uh expand your service offerings it's possible that you know getting a picture showing you your job site every

once in a while um and I guess you know knowing installers there'd be a few um

middle fingers on those pictures I'm just guessing probably a lot more than a

little bit of middle fingers every time someone walks past it they'd be doing something yeah

yeah no I see it being valuable guys have spoken about it for the same exact reason you said we had a big customer in

Texas actually ask us the same thing they drive six hours to sits and only to run into the same thing you said yeah

and then like you said like big brothers watching right but I mean at this point

it's 2024 you kind of got to think that someone is watching you all the time anyways so if it's not that camera

there's another camera right around the corner that's going to be watching you I've seen projects where they put cameras up and then they do a time lapse

and it's like I didn't even know any cameras were there but you kind of got to just expect that these days yeah yeah

they got me picking my nose and my butt I'm not gonna say what

order that's disgusting all right so back on track here uh so I got a question when you uh

for you guys up there just commercial flooring contractors and General when you have had those conversations with um

your end user and the the site or your your contractor whoever you're working for and the site conditions are not uh

up to par and let's use the old way pre pre floor

Cloud how are those conversations like um are

they do your contractors or your end users I I see uh I see a difference between

those two so let's use gc's do you do you see them being receptive to what you

say I think that we've been L pretty lucky to to have gc's that rely on us in order to tell them

you know kind of what the best thing is but at the same time we've been on that other side where they're like we don't

care just put it down and it's it's a lot of push back and that's where uh you

know our buddy uh Paul Stewart gave us some some tips on that about having you know things signed off by not only the

GC but the owner and the architect and then I think once you you present that form right there that's when they're

kind of like all right let's uh maybe we should wait or do something about this so that way it's right just turn in the

change order just turn in the change order we'll get it taken care of yeah um yeah Daniel Dan's right and and it to to

add to what Daniel said is um if you're an installer out there and

you you are not doing your best or making your best effort to even track project information for yourself um do

yourself a favor get a notebook take some pictures and and do it especially if something is out of line if you're

uncomfortable for an install try to have some kind of information or literature that you are tracking yourself because a

photo with a timestamp um a concern an email a text message with some concerns

could actually help you at the end of of the day especially with there's an argument or a case being created against

against you because of a potential failure or a failure um yeah and if you're if you're if you're on go Carrera

you can take those pictures toss them right in the chat yeah and and put your

concerns in the chat you know um th those types of things those

documentation you documenting your project and the the condition that it's

in or even things being in your way that goes a way we've you know I created a go

careera to be transparent in many ways transparent into the installer skill and

and ability but transparent into the job site and what the installer has to go through transparent on change orders the

key here is if you don't have goer and you ain't got floor Cloud then you do

what uh Jose was just talking about and document it yourself protect yourself make sure that you are you know uh

bringing your expertise to the to the table I mean that's that's what installers we here for is to really say

this is I mean the company should know I get that and I challenged Scott and he

made a very good point on why gc's aren't the only ones using floor Cloud the the reason only flooring companies

are not should not be responsible for tracking that is so you can protect yourself if you track it on yourself

like J Jose just said and you're you're uh uh taking notes and pictures um in a

in in a big part you're protecting yourself from you know a future uh issue

so yeah we always talk about I mean it almost every podcast it comes around to

Communication in some sort and that's really what Flor Cloud does in an automated way it's what go career does

in a very automated way uh we just all have to participate in these new technologies and push them and push them

to your manufacturer push them to your gc's push them to your flooring contractors that you're working with

yeah yeah I don't think it's the pushing them I think it's the educating them as to the benefit right pushing pushing it

to them is like you're trying to sell them on something but I don't I think this is something that is more

beneficial than it is the dollars it can save the dollars it will save the dollars it has saved

like yeah Fair Point Brer especially yeah I me what we say is you know the

flooring contract that adopt technology earlier definitely separate themselves from the competition right when they're

when they're going after certain projects and they're talking about using technology whatever it is they they're

they're a resource to their client and they're looked at differently than other guys in the market so we we encourage

people to really get out front pitch the stuff best to breed quality control um

and all that just to separate from the pack yeah well I'll

say one more thing for the installers is like there's nothing worse than doing this bang up craftsman style job you

know whether it's a bunch of circles and your sheet vinyl or like curves and just different stuff and you're very proud of

it and then it fails because you got a bond failure because of site conditions that that sucks all around and so the

the one way you can you know protect yourself there is make sure your job site uh that you're well documented if

if you're um you know being forced into installing outside of conditions and the

form that you that Daniel was talking about was just merely uh you know the signoff form for

any flooring companies that are on here it's very clear in the rulings across

the United States on this matter it's our job not only to alert them that they're installing outside of

manufacturer specs but you need to tell them all of the possibilities of what

can happen due to doing that and make sure that you're held harmless and

indemnified from all things that could result from that including safety issues

that could result from peing tiles and these things and then like Daniel said

have your uh GC owner and uh um

architect sign off on that yeah yeah that like there there was a project that

we were on you know this years ago you know before floor before floor Cloud was on our radar and um I mean it it didn't

take much to to monitor site conditions right but we'd physically have to be there it's going to to Home Depot or you

know your box store and buying the thermostat that keeps track of the temperature and humidity I mean it's

it's kind of cheap insurance right but still that's something that job site was an hour and 20 minutes away so that's

where the pictures came in too where you know every morning I'd make my rounds take a a photo of them that way I have

daily readings but that still that's better than nothing I mean Flor better

yeah obviously a far superior and your sensors I'm going to give you as we close out here I'd like for you to tell

us a little bit about the quality of your sensors Scott and what set you apart from going down to Home Depot and

and doing that um you and I had previous talks about that so I want I want you to kind of touch on that because one of the

things uh you know what Daniel was hitting on there is is 100% true

something's better than nothing yeah yep yeah so so tell us a bit about the

sensors and and what makes them so special okay so these sensors are basically um came out of two different

use environments that we thought made great sense for our

trade um basically they they standards for accuracy um as they were used during

covid um on pallets of vaccines that were then shipped around in the cold

chain Logistics process so there's a real tight tolerance around how

that stuff has to be measured and recorded I said earlier there's a GPS tracking to it to within 30 feet but

they're also they can be regarded as an asset cracker and that that's basically

something that is being put on um backos and bulldozers and you know heavy equipment on sites is so they can be in

very rugged environments they their IP67 rated they can get wet they can get

dirty Dusty whatnot so they're they're very accurate yet very

durable awesome well that's what sets them apart guys so give Flor Cloud some

love I see we had a few uh clicks on the uh QR code already uh again encourage

your uh you know educate as Jose said uh your your companies that you may be

working with if you're an installer and companies um you know it's it's it's like Scott said it's pretty cheap

insurance so uh look forward to um you know seeing your success Scott with

floor cloud and more job sites and just better project outcomes that's really

what we all want so yeah and there was um Patrick was at where were we at the

summit with nfct and unite and gave a presentation on it and uh I actually

just released a little short earlier today and there'll be a few more just you know bits and pieces on on your

guys' software coming out on on the social media so we definitely he he definitely did a good job on that and

the the video that you guys put together is is great and I'm looking forward to to using your

guys' stuff in the future on some projects right Jonathan and uh Robert Varden both

said that you know they got him in the school so it's not just for job sites either it's anywhere that could be

valuable it doesn't have to be just job site specific they want to keep make sure that the schools are you know

staying within tolerance too and that that's huge yeah and those guys are starting to integrate it into a little

bit of the curriculum um but just want to thank you guys for having

us on you know I think what you guys are doing for the industry is huge and um we're going to help spread the word

too about the Huddle and go careera so awesome we appreciate that well thanks Scott Jose Daniel guys it was another

awesome episode it was a great chat with you guys again and Scott when we when we

end the live don't get off we always forget to tell

people okay all right right well huddle crew huddle team uh until next Tuesday uh

you'll catch us on all the social channels uh if you see us on any of

those give us a like give us a subscribe you know make a comment tell us what we're doing great what we're following

and uh give us some more topics to discuss we love when you guys give us those topics from the audience because

that helps us to uh you know obviously Aggregate and communicate better

uh with what you guys are facing out in the field all the time and in your businesses so from there we'll catch you

guys later as great having you Scott and thanks everybody for uh your participation and comments thanks guys

we'll see you next week thanks a lot thank you [Music]

everyone

The Huddle - OVERTIME The Power of Partnerships

This bonus episode, live from The SUMMIT 2024, features the guys speak to many guests about the power of partnerships, and the importance of the industry joining together to be successful.

Guests :
Sonny Callaham - Co Founder and Chairman of NAFCT https://nafct.com

Paul Pleshek - Co Founder and Executive Director of NAFCT https://nafct.com

Robert Varden - Founder of UNITE https://uniteflooring.org

Beth Miller - Managing Editor Floor Trends & Installation Magazine https://www.floortrendsmag.com

Scott Bohaker - Owner of Bomont Flooring https://bomontflooring.com

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

all right what's up huddle

crew all right we're here at The Summit

in Dalton Georgia and got Sunny callaham

Robert Varden Paul pesek with us we're

just uh you know hanging out a little

bit wanted to get the guys together and

ask you a few questions first off like

how did the summit Comey talked about

the power of Partnerships I want you

guys to just kind of tell us what your

vision for this first you know inoc roll

uh Summit is but then what's your vision

for this thing going forward sure um

first thanks for coming appreciate you

coming but kind of the way it came to be

was Robert had asked me to be a board

member on unite so we started meeting

with unite and obviously meeting with na

afct we started saying yeah we're we're

going for the same goal so why not team

up together and do something together um

we're both fairly new associations right

so work working together I think you

know who I don't know he knows and vice

versa so we had a pretty good contact uh

to have people come and we've had a

great turnout we had 98 people

registered for this so um two days of

education trade show and um a panel

tomorrow so worked out well well so you

know some people may say what with

another convention right but it is

somewhat unique we've already had you

know we're most of the way du uh through

day one and it is a different kind of

setting and it does feel like unite and

that whole concept about getting

together we're all in the same industry

got a lot of the same goals why not come

together and and and work together to

you know increase the industry stance do

everything we're talking about with

labor shortage all this stuff so sure

Robert you well and and and sunny said

it correctly and and I think one thing

that is very different about this this

Gathering let's call it is you mentioned

it seems like another convention or you

know why would anybody have another

convention you know I think our whole

purpose of doing this you know it

started out we wanted to start a better

dialogue between the manufacturer and

the contractor you know again as a tech

guy running around you know how many

times would we get to the job site

you're you've been there and it's like

oh my gosh I wish you have called me

before you know and the installer don't

even realize that's was an option so

where it started out to that and it

built into what it became and this was

in a three-month time

frame but we wanted to get that dialogue

started he said do it so I did it yeah I

heard the other way he did a phenomenal

job I tell you um him and his whole team

Paul and Sarah we gotta give those guys

Kudos but but more

so in me and I think Sun agrees with me

that we don't want to look like a

convention we want it to look like more

of a gathering because we want this

right we want this to be as much yours

as it is ours as much theirs as it ours

because we want it something they can

look forward to and again just getting

the dialogue started between these

groups of Manufacturers and contractors

installers because let's face it who

knows our products better than the

manufacturer and these guys installing

them they need a better communication

yeah who needs to know it the most and

who has the most knowledge let's get

them together that's it so but we do

want that feel of it's as much yours as

it is ours well you guys have that in my

opinion and the the whole concept of

Bridging the Gap from the manufacturer

to the installer being an installer back

in the day myself you just didn't know

like you could call them I think you

mentioned that earlier I was like yeah

damn that's true I didn't know I could

call you mean I can call that guy I

didn't know what moisture was when I

installed didn't know what it was yeah

you know Paul you're not off the hook

dude you're over there trying to get out

of the I know what you're

try

I know what you're trying to do yeah

know stage exactly I was trying to avoid

being here to begin with in this area

well We snuck you in yes so so tell us

you know a little bit from your

perspective how's the day going you know

I'm sitting there thinking of the uh the

noise Factor right where uh it's not

quiet in here when we're sitting here

there's a lot of rumbling of people

visiting I think that's a big part

there's some conversations going on and

conversations you can take some time

with right you're not rushed not trying

to cover 17 Acres of a of a show you're

not uh rushed off when you've got 15

people standing in line waiting to talk

to the same people it's more of an

intimate setting where we can sit here

and we can actually just take the

afternoon and really go and have longer

conversations about things that that

that concern everybody and and we can

see that everybody's really sticking

around here and and taking advantage of

that I think you get that opportunity

very often where you can you don't have

anywhere to rush off to you don't have

you know thousand people to see you can

just take advantage of people that are

in front of you and and slow down and

and have some fun well I want to say you

know on the Huddle every week we're

constantly trying to encourage

installers to get to some of these shows

to get to network like the reason that

companies in the flooring industry we

tend to to find some success that

success starts really when you start

connecting with other companies

my my my flooring company got better

when I became a member of fuse it wasn't

because fuse all of a sudden a rebate or

whatever it was because I got around

other flooring contractors who had

different business practices maybe

better maybe just different that

actually worked better flooring

installers can do the same thing if we

can just get them to come and

participate uh you know I I threw a

couple things out in one of the groups

and I was like hey is anybody going to

be in Georgia and they're like didn't

get an invite I'm like

guys right it's all it's all over uh

really what it boils down to is I think

what you guys have started can be this

Open Arms kind of welcoming thing for

installers to come and actually do

installer sorry sorry about the s

word uh but you know get together and

not feel like you feel like a a fish out

of water a little bit say a a a much

bigger show this is your show get to the

summit uh I want to say I appreciate you

guys putting this together we are

excited to be a part of it as well so

thanks for com next years's next year's

going to be in April right here at the

convention center um 26 we're looking at

Dalton to move it a little bit but this

is not a one-time deal we're going to

keep this going awesome any final

words where where else can you go for a

show for this kind of cost and get the

food we've got no doubt nowhere I mean

I'm telling you you know I've had to do

with putting together a few conventions

and that's one thing when we looked at

this venue and you know I've used this

before as well for a couple of meetings

and it's a great venue I mean and again

I mean you go to Orlando or these places

and and believe me just to feed an

attendee you 500 bucks right same Great

Mills were 100 and a half I mean hope

the convention center don't hear this

and up our price next year but no it's a

it's a phenomenal venue it's right here

in the heart of you know the flooring

capital of the world and so no I think

it was a great

start money for the food they that's why

was $150 yeah guys it's

fortable come come see us next year in

April if you're not here we promis to

bring you live and give you a taste so

thanks guys again I appreciate it thanks

good see you

again appreciate it Paul thank you

gentlemen appreciate everything you guys

do everything Budd appreciate you yeah I

hope this

it

will go talk to another

inster

many

didn't do anything yeah

you

that what are you talking about I'm not

talking how you guys H how how we all

got together with the power of

Partnerships with the Huddle oh we're

still on live you're still live all

right guys oh we are so live the power

of live and the uh fear of live is that

you say something wrong on live no um so

everybody knows the Huddle yes

so when we're talking about the power of

Partnerships we just got through kind of

describing you know with s uh Sunny Paul

and and

Robert them uniting and coming together

and and that power of that partnership

is the same thing with PF floring and

steing Associates and go Carrera that

all started from a partnership we just

it's the well it started with a

relationship that turned into a

partnership 100% And so so we partnered

up on the Huddle it's very quickly

becoming the number one watched uh

podcast in flooring if not already the

number one I'd like to say appreciate

you guys apprciate so thank you guys for

always joining us I got multiple

comments here this week uh already or

today already about uh people who watch

us religiously so we appreciate you guys

100% so thank you for that but the power

of Partnerships is kind of what we're

talking about yeah and it's been

I want to tell you the power it's

absolutely rewarding to get to know

other people and make a deal and really

what we did is make a a handshake deal

to start a podcast together and start

like talking about flooring stuff and

you got it resided with you guys so how

how's it been for I mean what's your

take you know what it's um it's just one

of those deals

where you create a a relationship that

you think is going to be opport

opportunity right it's opportunistic

because that's how that's how everything

starts you go look for opportunities and

then you end up finding common ground

and then instead of an opportunity it

becomes a relationship and a friendship

and then things just kind of spiral from

there and that's what happened with us

both decided to sit down in the same

area at the same time at the same place

and say at a show yeah at a show at a

show fcica event I believe and um it

just kind of turned into to what you see

now like uh

we I met him as a software guy I didn't

know that he was a flooring guy and then

we took the time to talk to one another

and realize that we were actually on the

same page on a lot of beliefs and then

he's like yeah I'm in flooring too this

is you know Stewart Associates that's me

this is just a byproduct of a need that

that that we found and um and and who we

are I mean the podcast came up in an

organic conversation like hey wouldn't

that be cool to have a podcast yeah yeah

it probably would be try to help

everyone out and then 86 yeah 86 episod

and then here we are here we are and

it's um you know it's been fun you know

like I'm not saying that like it's

stopping but it's been a good ride so

far a fun ride and

uh I forget that we do this yeah I

forget that that we take time out of our

day to sit and and rap with one another

and have guests on and because I'm just

hanging with my brother and my boy yeah

and you forget what you're you forget

what you're doing in in a sense of we're

trying to get a word out andang out it

started off a little scary and it

started off a little bit like work like

if it was a little bit like you had to

get geared up for it now it's very

natural

because just to say the tag line again

the power Partnerships yeah it created

the Huddle the bottom line is the

partnership between us and your brother

Ben and everybody at go Carrera

Kevin Daniel my partner you know all of

us getting together at these shows

turned into what you get to watch every

week and we hope we bring you guys value

uh again we always encourage you to you

know comment like subscribe you know

interact with us uh you know help us out

help us get this into more hands and uh

you know more people's fingertips there

watching the Huddle but that's the power

of the partnership the people that we

talk

to really appreciate uh our approach and

again it was because we came together

and decided to try something cool yeah

and um you know we don't go out there

pretending that we know everything we

might know a little bit about a lot but

we're not Professionals in every aspect

of the industry and that's why it's

important for us to to get topic

suggestions from you guys and to get

guests on who we view as leaders in that

that that topic of the

industry yeah yeah we should talk to

Beth and she's here right now Beth come

on

down come on

down so so Beth is generally the one

asking the questions yes uh but I I'll

I'll I'll bring it in on and put you on

the other side so how first

off you've been in this you know

industry on the media

side when we say power of

Partnerships does that what is that like

I'm not going to ask you what does that

mean to you what I'm trying to dig out

of you is what's it look like when

successful Partnerships happen because

people come together you know what I

mean like

um shows can be very redundant yes but

it's the after it's all that after stuff

all these Partnerships that happen

afterwards all the deals that get made

afterwards I mean I met you at a show

like so uh and we encourage our audience

every week to get out and and get

involved and I I particularly want

people to get involved with shows that

are really focused on the uh installer

and that's also near and dear to your

heart so right well let's just use us as

an example so we actually met at the CFI

convention 22 I think it was 2022 I

believe so 21 or2 I believe so and we

did a video but I learned that day what

you're doing learned what go career was

and what it had to offer and so there

was another resource for installers that

now I'm aware of and now I can take that

back with me and I can share with others

so that's the same thing that has to

happen anytime there is an event where

everyone comes together we go home we

share ideas we learn from each other and

then you figure out from what you've

learned how to share that with others to

benefit everyone to benefit the industry

as a whole um and really for me I'm a I

I'm a big picture thinker and I love to

really just pull all these little pieces

together and and go oh man you know what

this this is missing over here who can

who can solve this problem I know yeah

go Carrera or whoever you know Ardex mé

Roberts whoever it is you know and and

connect those people and that's so it's

that power of connection really I think

that comes from events like this yeah

and you get friends I

mean at the end of the day each I'm

moving next week you think you come I'd

love just kidding just kidding

I don't think you're moving off the hill

no no I'm not no all right well really

this whole thing this this uh part of

the uh live event here from the Summit

is all about the power of Partnerships

and as you know I'm a broken record when

I talk about getting together coming

together networking you know getting to

know other people's best business

practices but then you're going to meet

people you never know what you're going

to run across if you just put yourself

out there a bit and and uh you know try

to form some relationship so we'll catch

you guys soon we'll probably go live

again where can they find you Beth oh

where can they find me go to floor

trends.com and you can find all of the

content that we put out videos podcast

articles and if you've contributed

that's where you can find your things if

you don't know who we are go there find

us and if you want to contribute she's

always taking articles always taking

articles yes yes that's right yeah

awesome I think thank you who we got I

think we got Scott over here to talk

about some power Partnerships as well

why don't you step in

here do man's it going so this is Scott

booh haacker he was actually um one of

my certifiers for uh CFI in forny yeah

and at the same time you were the first

certification I ever did for CFI oh I

did not know that yes so I we know

talking to you and your relationship

with with mohawk and other CFI guys and

how you bring them on different job

sites you know you you deal with large

scale commercial we just did a podcast

about large scale commercial and

how kind of difficult it is um H how are

those Partnerships beneficial to you

well it's all about learning because

none of us know everything so at some

point in time we have to get involved in

a in a game that we're not exactly

comfortable with

so building relationships with different

installers different manufacturers field

service technicians for different

companies we can just learn about

products what can go wrong so we can

kind of fix problems before they

actually

happen yeah I mean even here earlier um

the presentations about concrete stuff

like that it's amazing the amount of

information you can learn that you don't

already know

just sitting through a one hour

presentation like that definitely we've

been sitting over here for a half hour

talking to TRX testing moisture and

concrete just how important it is I'm a

carpet guy I've never thought before

that moisture and concrete wasn't was a

problem but it affects adhesives in

different ways right and it's you know

things like that and then bringing other

installers on I think our industry is

kind of fueled by that competitive

nature right someone is always better

than you or you're always better than

someone and you're always chasing or

you're always falling behind when we're

all there for the same information if I

need something I can definitely call you

to get those answers or if and you know

vice versa I think that's really the

power of the Partnerships that we're

looking

at it's knowing that you have a network

of people to call and call to come help

you or you to go help them when you need

it we're not in competition with each

other at all we're here even if we live

in the city succeed right there's room

for everybody to succeed there's

absolutely room for everyone and that

that's the power of Partnerships it's

just building that Network so that way

you have someone to call and

sometimes we've talked occasionally

sometimes you just need a sounding board

right to discuss frustrations that you

have and you need somebody to talk to

that's been through the same experiences

before and then just the the commercial

industry in general right it's I can

always call you and say how's it going

in your Market you know are you seeing

the same things are you seeing something

before I am stuff like that definitely

and sometimes some of us who work very

closely with some of the manufacturers

may see or hear

something before right and getting to

events like this is huge with that right

because you have the the benefit of

going up to one of the manufacturers and

asking them questions and then I also

look at the manufacturers as partners

too so if I'm using Ardex um ardx is a

great partner they have a great support

system and I appreciate everything that

they do I mean I got I can give Seth a

call because I've networked with him and

asked him questions directly and that's

that's

crazy because he's the he's that Top Dog

over there right that's right and and

different glue manufacturers that we

have here if you have a high moisture

content in your slab you don't know what

to do there's usually a solution for

everything it's just not one person

knows it all yeah and the same thing

right everything is a different tool in

the toolbox everything is a partnership

and we're all in this uh industry to

succeed together and the more that

people can look at it that way the

better off the industry will be I think

we need that more now than ever more now

than ever so I mean I I appreciate your

time time today I think we're going to

get ready to wrap this one up we've been

at it for a few minutes now and thanks

for for coming over here and talking to

me even though I just went and grabbed

you real quick of course hey it's all

good good talking to you yeah I

appreciate it thanks thanks SC no

problem so thanks everyone uh we're

going to wrap it up make sure you like

subscribe all that good stuff all over

all the I mean look at these cool

microphones I mean this is the power of

Partnerships right here right because I

seen these on Amazon and I had to get

them and I part he partnered with Amazon

to get these it doesn't mean you didn't

pay for him but anyway just kidding any

no yeah so uh it's been fun man yeah um

if if you're watching this and you're

here come grab some stickers that's what

we're here

for these are the new ones I don't know

if you got any other new ones yeah we

got plenty of them hey the the key is if

if you're not here come next time come

check it out come hang out like I heard

you over saying you can call Seth with I

know that may not be a big ordeal if you

don't know who Seth is and I'm not

saying that he's like the president of

ardx but the guy knows his stuff and

he's the top top guy for Technical and

you as an installer can have the same

ability you run into a problem with some

selflevel or you're run into a technical

issue you can get these phone numbers

and these Conta to contact them directly

and save yourself a hell of a lot of

headache right even if he doesn't have

time he can point me to someone that

does have time yeah so come hang out

we're at the Su we'll be here tomorrow

too yep thanks brother until next time

break

The Huddle - Episode 88 - Across the Pond ft Tom Cockerill and Joni Reeves

The guys are thrilled to welcome Tom Cockerill from the UK Flooring Podcast https://theukflooringpodcast.co.uk and Joni Reeves from Floor Design Studio https://thefloordesignstudio.co.uk . Together, we'll bridge the Atlantic to share and compare the universal challenges and triumphs in the world of flooring. Despite the miles between us, professionals in both the UK and the US navigate similar hurdles—from client education and material selection to installation intricacies. Join us as we uncover the shared experiences that unite us, offering insights and solutions that transcend geographical boundaries. Tune in to discover how, in the realm of flooring, we're more alike than different.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up huddle crew the Huddle is your your tribe for maintaining forward

progress in your flooring career it's your weekly Playbook to help M uh

Advance your your knowledge Advance your best business practices and and uh you

know let so you know if you like that kind of activity if you're in flooring

and you want to um you know learn how to uh transform this industry you know this

is your place that was my best attempt that was a terrible opening guys thank you so much for bearing with me on

that don't know if 25 seconds to uh prep for that uh just got off a plane from

Phoenix and jumped into my office and here we are so uh made it you guys know the the

standard here big vat that's better known as I put his name ason

I just that's when I just looked at the screen I'm like why this dude man we got Daniel uh Gonzalez both with preferred

flooring up in Grand Rapids Michigan we got Johnny and Tom both from the UK

welcome fellas happy to have you here with us here hi guys thanks for having

us thank having us for sure thanks for being here today we're going to you know

just wrap about flooring um we're it's kind of a a conversation I

always think of a few guys sitting around a fire having a few drinks and and it always ends up if you're in

flooring it always ends up there anyway so we're just going to talk about it now so uh we're g to talk about business

approaches different ways you guys handle things there in the UK um some installation techniques I

know there's some different uh different approaches there and then the different van vs which I think will be kind of fun

so I'm going to kick this off with some introductions uh I'm Paul Stewart I'm

the founder and CEO of go Carrera um I'm also the president of Stuart and

Associates commercial flooring a commercial floor covering company in witch Kansas Jose Gonzalez kicking off

brother tell us about you a little bit uh my name is Jose Gonzalez uh I am

co-founder of preferred flooring out in Grand Rapids Michigan uh we are a primarily a commercial installation

outfit uh been full service in the commercial industry for about five years now uh and uh we dabble in residential

but I wouldn't say that's our primary uh uh go-to uh Silo to uh to work down but

we do our best it's more organic awesome I am no longer an installer on the floor fulltime so I am

uh what do they refer to as a office uh be I'm gonna let Paul be the first your

computer jocky something like that hey Joan uh Johnny won't you tell

us a bit about yourself I'm kind of going around as the screen here no well

um my name is Johnny Reeves uh I'm co-founder and director of the Flor Design Studio in northern England North

Yorkshire um I I'm still installing I've been installing 24 years I I install

anything and everything that goes on the back of my van by store and tiles um and

we at the for design studio and now i' class as more as a contracting business

we Supply and sell our own products however we are our primary focus is

installation um and my uh my opinion on the UK Market is that's where the

Market's shifting and where the money is going to be is an installation so that's where our focus is woo I hope you're

right you hear that boys yeah the money's an installation so if you're joining us today and watching

this I I tend to believe the same thing here in the US is we can get our act together so Daniel I'm the other half of

preferred flooring he pretty much gave you the whole history of us so I think I'm good there all right Tom tell us a

bit about you man whole history not the whole history yeah Tom cochrell Darlington uh

England so we own a training and mentoring business cochr and core um with my wife Sarah cochrell so we train

any of one thing from small contractors to multi7 figure retailers uh we also

Now train manufacturers um on all things business related nothing to do with the

install side all all business side um also co-founder of Truth digital which is a digital marketing agency for the

flowing industry in the UK and I also still do own a micro contractor that

only installs hardwood that's uh the short version all

right well that's a there's a lot to dive in there um so let's start with a

little bit of the training what kind of training uh business training you guys

specialize in so our Flagship course is called floring freedom and we go through

every element of running a flooring U at the moment retail business or

contracting business U we still not too much into commercial so we cover

everything from cash flow recruitment um mindset performance um Marketing sales

all of those elements um we cover in an intensive two-day course and that's sort of a really our way to start working

with us uh and if we want to work with you obviously it's a two-way two-way thing um and then from there we have a

mentoring program that contractors and retailers would enter into a 12 month

program so that's that's um but we we want to be sure that we want to work

with the individual and the individual wants to work with us so the best ways spending two days in tense um at our

training center so we've got a purpose-built training facility um as I said there is no hammers no knives

anything like that it is tables and chairs and big screens so it's some sometimes people get confused that we're

going to teach people how to lay things and we're certainly not going to do that so it's uh well the business side is uh

I we talk about it a lot and Daniel looks like he's got something to say about this but we talk about you know a

lot of the technical guys here in the US they know what they're doing from a technical perspective and they really

need that guidance in the in the business side so kudos for that that's what I was going to say like over here

that's one of the things that's lacking is the business side of things we just all focus on the installation and then

the training on the install side it's like no man like if you want to be a successful business owner that's what

you got to do you got to you you said something about you know training the mindset that's awesome it's it is it's a

mindset shift to be able to to run a business like that and and not just get

money spend money yeah so how do you how do you approach that mindset and Johnny

I'd love to get your it sounds like you're you have some success right before the podcast we were talking about

some of your uh some of your talents um but I'd like to get both of your take on that like what is the mindset um your

your your ideal client let's say and then Johnny what what do you think is

the the keys to success for you know a successful flooring installer maybe

maybe they sell some materials maybe they don't but um what what do you guys

you know what is the typical your ideal client there Tom and then Johnny if you can just piggyback off Tom's comments on

what you see so from the training side it's going to I want to say it's going to sound awful but um let's stick with a carpet

installer with a mindset they can only achieve x amount so if that's 5 pound a

square meter or square yard or whatever they figure that they've got a mindset I think the ideal client for us is someone

that is preparing to change that mindset and realizes they can get what they feel they worth and changing that mindset

from writing the quotation out going into the client's house selling in this shop environment and I've had many let's

say friendly heated debate about me saying your price needs to be another

20% more than you've been charging for the last 10 years and they swear that

they I'm wrong and then they go away from the C they implement it ring me two weeks

later and said it works and I'm like I know but it's just it's just a mindset

shift it's not a massive upskilling it's not that they're a better installer it's not it's just shifting that mindset that

this isn't the income level that you know some people may be already on that some people wait under that but they get

this mindset they might lose the work they might not get the next job um and

it's like Panic you can see panic in their eyes and that that's even though

it sounds a little bit cruel that that's a perfect client but our biggest success is when that mindset shifts to this is

achievable you can achieve more um revenue and more net profit um for your

you know for your family and go and your your team you know that's that's that's why it's ideal that people are prepared

to learn is probably the ideal client someone that's prepared to look at different perspectives uh and not be

tunnel vision I think mainly the reason why I built a flowing business well into the seven figures

with a mindset of I was right and for 10 years I wasn't um you know and it

probably got to sort of year 134 thinking I've reached as much as I can

give but this isn't good enough we're still not doing X and still not y then I started listening so I'm coming from an

era of I was probably my worst type of client myself and then I've g a personal

journey to absorb from other people's experiences and listen more not tell um

so that's that's that's where I've got the perspective of our ideal client it's probably what I used to

be nice I think as well Tom with with regarding your business I think one of the key elements that you bring to the

table is um you highlight the um the business side of the floring industry is

a separate skill to the installation now one thing that I find I've found

throughout the peers is they think the cost they can lay flaws exceptionally well that mean and they can run jobs

that means that when they go on their own they'll have a successful business uh and it's a different skill set a

completely different skill set and what you do highlights and trains them in that and it opens rise to the fact that

that is the case that's my input on your piece anyway mate yeah that their business

side um also allows you to command a b

uh more money for your for your labor because people like to do business with people they like uh we we have uh some

installer groups down here um that I would

say doesn't pay enough attention to the way they present themselves and um they're great they can

be really good installers but a lot of this when you're talking about clients or even if you're working for commercial

shop like uh like ours it's how well are you at the professionalism side how well

do you present yourself and keep your tools and keep your you know do you have to leave a job site three or four times

to go grab something like how prepared and professional are you uh I know you guys uh Daniel and Jose you guys are

like really um focused on that part of your business like how you guys present

yourself and how your installers present for prefer up in Grand Rapids what's your

take yeah I think it it all goes back to a while ago when uh there was some some

pretty bad things that were happening at a hospital in a night project and our crews were getting blamed for some

missing items and uh he the gentleman head of security brought to our attention you don't have your company

logo on your employees if you're not willing to put your brand on them why should I be willing to let them work in

my facility and that right there like made me realize and that it connected

all the dots for me from from when I started till that point where he's right we're not uniformed we we we don't look

professional we look like you know a throw together gang uh coming to do some

floors right like from all walks of the world and then we came together and that's exactly what it looked like but

once um I think it only took a matter of a few days for me to get at least all matching shirts for everyone and then

and then jackets as well uh and if I told you that there wasn't a

difference between the way that we were approached by clients or potential clients uh based off of how uniform or

if we were uniformed or not I would be lying to you guys like the

level it made a difference in your business when you started like uh doubling down on the professional image

as well as probably uh what about like attitude and the way your guys you know treat clients and things of that nature

yeah I think I think this is a big thing that that I know we struggle with in my area like our installers if they're not

they're the face of your company out there whether they're a sub or you're your your employee installer and

so that was another thing too is it gave us representation right and it's all perception so if someone was perceiving

you more as a professional because of how you carried yourself or how you dressed uh or how you can articulate

yourself then that was her goal that's that's that was the next step because we we already had a reputation for doing

work well but we probably didn't look like our reputations uh had made for us

right so I think we were trying to trying to catch up to our our skill set for the installation portion and then

once once we did that then we just kind of kept growing from there but it is also very important like you just said

to to understand the communication aspect of the business and

we we had to I had to learn a lot growing up because I was uh I was very

rough around the edges when I was younger um but also I had to start recognizing who had the ability to

communicate with our clients versus who should not go talk to them yeah make sure you got the right person in the

right seat so to speak yeah 100% so um Daniel you got anything to add

there I was going to move on after that to like business approaches for for how

you guys operate overseas there now let's talk about what they do over there I'm I'm curious to to learn what uh what

we can Implement over here yeah amen so like your business approaches uh give

you an example we have like retail stores and then we got like Angie's List

or Angie uh as it's known over here which is where uh the the enduser

connects with everything from a plumber to a flooring guy um so the flooring guy

kind of gets his own work uh in those aspects um but a lot of installers work

out of retail shops or retail stores pick up their materials in the morning go to the job that was sold through the

store uh and same very similar situation in commercial you know we sell a project

or win a bid um most of our most of the time in commercial your deliver the

product is already on the job site but outside that it's it's pretty similar and then you're dealing with GC in the

commercial world or a homeowner in the residential um so just that as a framework how do you guys gener how does

the installation world over uh over in your guys neck of the woods generate

business and generate and Market themselves and those kind of things what kind of nuggets can you give us for the

uh audience usually for um you'll tend to

find that they'll subcontract will work for retailers uh they'll get the work via that way commercially they tend to

be for in re in uh retail and domestic

environments tend to be teams of one or two usually ones working on themselves and they subcontracted into retail

Market the commercial ones tend to be in teams of two or three uh and then they'll do the same they'll subcontract

to um the commercial Market um you'll get man in Van who will sell is usually

a man and a an apprentice and will sell his own materials out of his out of the back of a vanify samples usually working

from a client base he's built up over the years he's been subcontracting um you very rarely get

outfits of installers where the actual business is installing where it

subcontracts as a business uh it tends to be very independent um everyone seems

to work for themselves very few retailers employ as well very few um

will employ installers which I think is a massive problem

um Johny the um when we had a retail store we only employed so that's

probably my experience and that's what we still do I want emply too yeah yeah

so it's um so again what we're saying about client experience one thing we do on the training but again I think it's a

very valid point what we give examples of if we all were in a position to buy Ferrari or Bentley we would expect a

certain standard to be served if we all went out to buy such car same if we went

out to a restaurant Sim if we went to a five star hotel we would expect a level of service and I think where the real

value in the UK is is the retailers that have embodied that small Independent high quality service doesn't necessarily

have to be hugely priced but it's about that client experience and as me and

Johnny we you know we employ so everyone would have branded t-shirts everyone in

the store would have the t-shirts the Vans categorically would be signwritten so you experience a endtoend

service and but they are I don't know I don't know what the percentage would be Johnny would you think that that what

probably 30% maximum would be that endtoend employed Allin one service I think

that'd be I think that' be generous I'd say close at 10 uh where the where it's all one um and they sell an employ and

install start to finish i' say it's 10% at Market every everywhere else works on a subcontractor bis from my experience

anyway definitely up where I am well I'll give you some stats for the US

um depending on which um survey or study you read it's between 80 and 87% of all

flooring both re retail and Commercial uh that you walk on is

installed by subcontract independent installers um so we we have similar

situations there um as me as everybody knows I I founded go Carrera to help

with the um transparency into the skill set of the installer uh trying because I

I figure we're not going to I'd love to have nothing but employee installers if I'm honest and Frank but it it's just

not the way that the world is working at the moment nor has it worked for the last about 15 20 years over here so we

have to find a way to um you know make the subcontractor uh give them the tools uh

I say make but you know encourage the subcontractor to get trained encourage them to be more professional as um to

take their career seriously and and and understand that the way that they present themselves is a huge piece of

their business and um you know that what go Carrera was uh formulated for but at

the end of the day it all boils down to if you're selling a service be it your

labor or uh if you're selling product um

the the way that you treat the client and that client's experience has to be Paramount in your mind installers on

here if you're listening it just it has to be at the top of your mind how how

the client's experience is that's how we all get more work that's how our industry starts to heal that's just my

opinion yeah and brand uh branding and uniform that makes unless you're wanting

to never get bigger than yourself as an installer branding in uniform is the

best way of getting bigger like for example my my Lads my Lads all follow the same training we all fit the same

way because like uh laying floors it's not it's not like electrics or Plumbing where it's the right and a wrong way

laying floors is a craft um oh I love that so the the finish that you get is a lot

of the time defined by the individual so uh and that's why that individual will

usually get more work and that's how I've how I've built my reputation is by

the the finish that I get and if I wanted to get past being just me I need

to bring Lads up to get them to that finish to get them to fit the same way I do to get them to um look the same way I

do like myads we've got the same toolbox we got the same tools in the same tool boxes we we as uniform is exactly the

same from shoes pants Tops we've got custommade tool belts that are all the

same they're all branded even my thermos M mug has got me company brand on I

wanted it to be so that what what I used to find when I was subcontracting was

people would ask for me um and I didn't want it that's another reason why I

never put my personal name in my the business I made it a business in its own right I wanted

people to stop asking for the person and ask for the brand um and the brand is

defined by the way it does stuff so then it doesn't matter who turns up as long as someone from that brand turns up the

product and the service is going to be the same regardless and that's how I see expanding forward as an installer

getting just being yourself I gotta say I love this how you how you presented

that we talk about the difference in the trades that like you know there's a right and a wrong way and I I guess I

visualized that really well when you said that you know in electrical there's a right and a wrong way but in flooring

it's there's there's often multiple ways to get to uh to do it right there's not

always one right way um there's certainly a lot of wrong ways to do it

but there's often more than one right way and uh so I love how you said that it takes a real Craftsman to figure fig

that out in the floor prep that you mentioned before we jumped on the call what's your take there Daniel on uh well

first off you know we're in talk vacular but uh for everybody here in the US Lads are like

guys

yeah what's your take Daniel I'm I'm right there with you like

as soon as we started um you know putting everyone in uniforms and stuff like that it's uh becomes a mindset and

we relate everything to being a team right and you can tell that you're on that same team when everyone is wearing

that apparel so once you you start dressing the part and then

um start acting the part it it's it's hard to to move away from that but there's always going to be that room in

in the industry or any industry for that matter for those one-off guys that don't want to do that right because we're even

they can get the even they can brand themselves though right I mean I think what we're talking about here is is like

Johnny said and what you just said is like you know having a consistent visual

a consistent brand when you go out to jobs when you go out to people's homes and and people's

businesses uh a you know this is called the Huddle and uh it's it's kind of

wrapped around Sports which was wrapped around you know everybody wearing the same shirt and and knowing the team and

and owning that that love of the team and I think when you apparel your guys

up like you do Johnny and I know preferred man I've been to your guys' place you guys do the same thing um it

can also like you said change that mindset and create that team atmosphere yeah it makes a it makes a

difference really does make a difference like Johnny said too it U it it creates

uniformity right like it brings everyone together as a company instead of individuals it doesn't uh it's a comfort

thing the the clients or potential clients are looking at it as a comfort we're hiring preferred flooring we're

not hiring ex installer who who wears preferred flooring stuff it's we're

hiring this company and and there is a comfort level there um that I would like to say that we've earned um from being

consistent on apparel to having the guys show up out every project uniform

residential or commercial so and an interesting concept um I've spoken to a

few let's say bigger contractors that are running around really busy business

owners that you know doing seven seven figures um and they um but they are the

main person that's doing a lot of the work maybe not the installs but they're doing the 60 the 80 100 hours um a month

and then I'm like so what what's the three five 10 year plan and they're like well this can't carry on at this rate

and then when we point out once you become the least um valuable piece of

your business that's when you've got a business that's worth a lot of money so you know

you four weeks out six weeks out and your business runs at the same capacity

then you've got something valuable if you get run over by a train tomorrow suddenly your business is not very

valuable because you're doing all the heavy lifting so that's that's a real sort of thing again where that brand and

if you can not work yourself without some people love to still be in the midst of it but if it can operate

without you being there then suddenly you've got some real tangible value if you want to ever cash that in you know

if that's the plan so that's that's one thing we come across a lot um with the

training side owner operators working double the amount of hours as their team

um and if it if it fell down what what happens then what what precautions are in place so it's uh nothing nothing in

most cases yeah from a high level Tom uh what's that look like I mean obviously

uh you do this for a living so you don't got to give away all your secrets but uh what's it look like to take somebody who

you know let's take a couple of guys in a truck or in a van and you know maybe a

lead um what do you talk to them about marketing it takes a little bit of time to get to what you were just talking

about uh where they're the least valuable but there's steps to that right and marketing is in there somewhere uh

to start a valuable brand and how how do how do the guys go get more uh work

that's valuable and in their skill set I mean one of the easiest most tactical ways um obviously a website is

the first initial one with his all the organic stuff but to scale something and if you got excess Cash go Google ads um

in the UK you can you can scale certain product categories so if you are a

hardwood installer that then wants to go into LBT lvp um quite rapidly and you've

got cash behind you you can within reason turn that on at a certain rate and your phone will ring for those

inquiries so there's there's loads of different other so looking at other larger contracts and increasing your

network um existing contacts VI email but to scale quick as in days not not years um

and if you've got cash unfortunately does have to go to the guys of Google um but having someone clever to manage it

but that that's just one tactic that you can Implement different categories or

different Services I've had people that just go out and buy a set of floor sanders and then suddenly you know we

can get that phone ringing within seven days suddenly that they're the floor sanding expert you know there may not be

but the phone will ring so it's kind of doing doing that from Ground Zero with your Facebook and your Instagram and

using your own network that that takes months and years of reputation so if

that answers it Paul to sort of give you s yeah you know said we've had some great success in that but it's but we

wouldn't recommend it to people that haven't got the cash to give to Google you know unfortunately we only get a very small fee um to manage the money

but the more you know we we've got people that are spending thousands weekly um but very tactically so like

they're putting 4,000 in but getting 20,000 back out and it's you know it's

tracked it's not just money thrown sort of out so it's um but that's probably

one but I think the key thing which my wife would shoot me for is you know I'm very good at the tactics and getting

this stuff in but I think it's absolutely critical to put the structure in place of the right guys the right

processors the right pricing before you start sending rockets at at your at your

online you know because if soon you get really busy and you're pricing every job at at the wrong price it it's a

nightmare it's a complete sort of catastrophe so I think it's the first would be to make a plan with all the

costings done then send rockets at the for line I think is the uh so so so get

educated yeah uh get a website and get ads yes and then there's proba there's a

there's a load more to that obviously but um you know one of the one of the

key benefits I see with you know the um the website uh one of the reasons go

Carrera allow you know gives installers on the network the ability to have a

personal website uh is the fact that it's a it's an outside branding

mechanism uh it's it's something else talking about you without you talking

about you and um I think clients today really expect to be able to find you

online and uh you know I know that it if if uh it's it's super important from

every marketing person I talk to to have a a website and and then obviously it's

important to have that website to go to work for you but if you just had a website uh at the very least uh they're

able to find you online if they Googled you or what have you so I mean just think about what you do like just in

terms of finding something to eat you're always going online and researching these places right people are going to do the same thing with

you yeah like you gota you've got to have somewhere to be parked right yeah

that's the easiest free so if you can't afford the ads and you want to just do it yourself the easiest way is website

then Google my business and ask your clients for testimonials and reviews simple as that every single install

every single client uncle anti sister that's used your service get the reviews

on there because that's just building it builds your SEO for free and it and it um and it builds your confidence you

know it's very similar to to the G career where you you're building these sort of um you know the more you've got

the more profile you've got before the client even has set foot like got you face to face you're already forming an

opinion like again if we went to a restaurant we would form an opinion if it is good or bad by what we online so

you know before we've even eaten there it still could be terrible but you know same as the install but it's hopefully

if we've done our due diligence right by you looking at these experiences you're going to get what you pay for and that's

yeah that's it go ahead J yeah I would just I agree with it's

like um you never you would't go when you're buying off Amazon you read the reviews don't you um so what's the

difference between buying a I don't know a phone cable of Amazon and buying a flooring service there isn't you got to

look at how um the client's going to buy and they're going to buy they're going

to look for you they're going to look for you online because everyone does it from the phones now no one's going to go

walk around it's all from your phone and then they're going to look at your reviews so it's just you reverse

engineering what people do to buy it's what well what Tom was saying it's

um when you when you think about it from a rather than from an installers or a retailers point of view and start

thinking it from a customer point of view it becomes pretty clear that that's a very very good Avenue to go towards

pushing your business forward I think it's a very important Avenue um right

and even if uh if you use social media to do some branding and advertising that way too then you can figure out how to

create some algorithms to get to get uh your name out there a little bit more you can ask your friends and family to

share your information um you know the Google search and when you put it out there for the

public to give their opinion I know that I like to give my opinion on on great

experiences or really bad experiences I'm really bad at giving opinions on middle of the ground experiences at

restaurants or whatever but it's either going to be really good or really bad right and and you want to either lead

people in the right direction or protect people from from their investment and and yeah you're right those those

reviews can help build a client really fast um can also help break them

as well this is where I'm a bit of the amateur in the room because uh in the

commercial I never really did residential so I never had to try to get a great uh you know rating or really get

well known we we publish on the um bid lists and things like that and and

that's where we get our the majority of our of our leads so um I'll let the experts answer this

but uh what's you know we've we've identified that there's some some easy

ways to do this stuff but the um I think one of the to just

step back before that one of the critical things is also setting your business up correctly Tom you kind of mentioned that early on um but does most

of the installation crews in your areas do they work is so Proprietors or do they actually open some type of a

corporate structure to run their company uh their business under from my experience sorry I was

going to say that the there's different levels there's big commercial outfits

with 30 40 installers probably most of the time they've got 10% are employed

the rest are subcontracted but then you've got other contractors that are

mediumsized just two or three vans and then you have the smaller guys so I don't know Johnny what what again

percentage wise and Commercial I don't know if there's a set a set sort of regime unless you know

anything different Johnny I would I would say most of them um most of the

residential Lads will set up on their own um the only real corporate outfits

would be commercial um I I I can't really think of one off top of my head

that's a residential outfit that provides labor only and and and is set up as a as as a

company all seems to be independent subcontractors well they may be independent I guess what I'm asking is

do they run so in the US you know you got corporate structure of some sort so

you can run as a sole proprietor where I don't really have a company between me it's just Paul stward

installation uh and I can still pay have employees even under that structure but

all the liability in taxes and work a little bit different and it's on me uh I

can set up a LLC a limited liability Corporation or I could set up a S Corp

or a C Corp which you know that's getting into bigger companies but I was just curious I mean some of the we we

found a lot of the installers will set up um I say a lot maybe 40% will set up

an an actual corporate structure of some sort like an LLC uh so that they have some protection um

you know personally from any uh catastrophes um and of course insurance and that kind of thing so do most of the

subs in your area carry they're required to carry Insurance do they have to have licenses or bonding capacity any of that

stuff in your over there inure you need your your liability

insurance and your W courage license um would be what you'd need uh um i' I'd

say there's quite a few operating without it um but that's that's the minimum of what you need really um and

then we need another if you if you're going to specify jobs like um and I can never remember what it's called um

because I just pay the bill I don't actually know what it's called but you certain if you are specking FL say if

you doing a corrective flaw uh there's a problem with a flaw and you're telling them what to do about it need an in an

insurance to back up what you're saying so say if I come across a floor and it's

and it needs a lot of repair and I'm saying well what you the products you need are XY Z and this method is how

you're going to fix it h i need insurance to say that if that method is wrong I'm insured it sounds like

professional liability insurance over here yeah yeah um it's got It's

got a warranty is is what it sounds like you're guaranteeing that process the

system yeah but he's saying that's part of the Insurance that's that's like a professional liability insurance it's an

ins it's an insurance policy it's a sub insurance policy um that it's on top of your liability insurance um I can't I

can't I can't remember what it's called um but very I'd say very very few installers have actually got that um

they they'll just have liability insurance and do they have to be licensed no uh no no no no this you you

can be floring installer tomorrow if you wish with no license whatsoever again

the more I talk to you guys the more I figure out you're just the same as we are yeah and to do with a corporate

structure you can become a limited company um which then means you know um you can be a oneman limited company and

or you can be multi you know um and then that limits your liability so if you're not that and you get into they'll put

you if you got to mortgage your assets yourself then that they can charge

against your house and things if you're a limited company um it it takes your

like family home or anything like that unless you sign another disclaimer away from that liability so if a job went

massively wrong they would sue the company and then you know and if the company didn't have any money well no

one gets paid but if that wasn't in place they would sue and then they can take you home so most people that sort

of scale I don't know what the percentag is all but I would hope most people have a

limited company um in the UK if they're going to start trading maybe over2 200,000 pound a year you know because

again there's bigger jobs bigger risks and and it just yeah just protect you a little bit there's more tax um some tax

benefits and some downfalls to it you can take your salary different and things like that you have to do um

proper accounting so when you're not limited company you can get away with not doing much worth of accounting you

still need to do it but it's not assessed if you're a limited company you must have it done by a a charted

accountant or you know qualified accountant um and then submit it to the government at the right time or or you

get fines so you do have more Hoops to jump through but it is better to form

that structure and that can be as big or small as you want there is other bigger versions of that good structure sounds

like a really good structure if you're going to classify yourself as a limited company which would be the equivalent to

our limited liability um company or Corporation sounds very similar but

except except they're mandating that they go through all the other correct channels to make sure that it's a legit

legitimate company through and through and I I like I like that they're yeah they don't do that that that that in

depth uh um looking into it over here honestly um the other thing you can do

is you can go on company's house UK and search any Limited company so I could see what Mr Paul Stewart made net profit

last year if you because you've got to submit them by law um of what profit you

made you know or what profit you didn't make um and you know your assets and your balance sheet and things like that

so you've you've got to submit this information which makes it transparent of who you're dealing with um obviously

people might fabricate things slightly but the information is there for Po from the time that the company was open so

you can look at every single Year's accountancy um which commercially you know protects

you and also if your clients do it they can see if you're you know if you've got court cases if you've got legals against

you you can normally see things like that you can see if they've had companies that haven't succeeded or

anything like that so it gives you that sort of overview if you if you need it you know it doesn't go into massive

depth but it gives you enough to get a basic understanding of who you're dealing with which I think is valuable

um you know it's not intrusive in any way yeah ours is basically check and it

says whether or not they're in good standing with the state uh that they're formed in and that's about it that and

that's just like a $25 fee per year yeah they just want their money yeah so I think there's a lot of

value to that um go ahead Jose I was going to keep uh keep the train rolling

on and start talking about we've talked a lot about business approaches I'll let you finish up on that one and then

get on to one of my favorites which is some installation techniques well we're going to roll right into that because

that's where my brain wet already so all right so um you guys uh tend to do a lot

of actual hardwood what's what's your Market structure like between say carpet

hardwood and tile or vinyl lvp is probably a big one too I would imagine but mine's 100%

hardwood and always has be um so I'm just I'm just hardwood 99% stuck down um

or or or nailed down fixed down in some method and that's it that's you know I'm Johnny will be able to elaborate much

more on um much more installations I I've not been on the tills 10 12 years um but but you know as

I said I've still got the same opinions I had then of fixed down hardwood so carpet lvt um anything like that never

what is what are most of the uh what are most of your facilities let's start with residential we got uh uh about oh 15

minutes here to to do this so I want to kind of get an idea what what is most of

the clients in a residential home is it mostly lvp is it mostly hardwood is it

mostly uh carpet in the home if yeah generally speaking now you'd have a

ground floow in LBT lvp uh um staircase bedrooms upstairs in carpet uh as an

industry I would say the vast majority of sales is in lvt uh or lvp stuck down

as well not the click together stuff that you Americans seem to like which is

rubbish oh I love it you are right it is rubbish 100% I'm not gonna

disagree so just a quick vacular thing guys rubbish is crap yeah

yeah trash it's trash it's so it's so limited so limited and so fragile and

just so bad in compared to the fully alternative that in well within the

industry is kind of seen as a DIY product and it's not um professional installers tell me knows up at it

generally as a rule it's it's not got a very good reputation amongst in stallers

as as in the click system but anyway uh yeah I'd say maybe 60% of the market is

LBT 50 60% of the market um for me

personally I'd say 70% of lvt 20 a 25%

carit 5 to 10% um Hardwoods and then like in the bathrooms

or we I I don't do tiles as much but um

I don't really come across tiles often even in uh when I'm not installing um

it's a smaller smaller sector and you tend to find as well Tyler's um as

Talon's done as part of the bathroom fit out uh by plumbers it's not doesn't tend

to be done by um fling profession by fling contractors so the plers tile hey

yeah wow interesting all all the tyers work closer with the plumbers than with

the floring side of the market unless it's a tile specific trade Warehouse

then obviously ties is going to go there but um I don't come across tyers very

often does uh what What's your substrates like is it mostly wood mostly

on slab or on on slab on ground floor is

the vast majority um upstairs is Timber um but anhydrate and gypson becoming

very very popular in new builds um very very popular because it's cheaper quicker to dry um it's Greener and

install it works well with under floor heating but it can prove a nightmare for

installers what do you guys uh how do you approach floor prep on your on your

slabs like um is there I was talking to well I think we were all actually in a

talk with uh Thomas uh at Ty was that at Ty guys when th was talking about in

Germany he uh no that was at uh CFI convention CFI okay yeah so he he said

man when he got over here to the US and and we're we're patching floors and we're the all the concrete guys are

trying to finish concrete to you know a floor flatness of of uh 316 and 10 feet

and still keep it porous and all this stuff uh he said over in in Germany man

they everything's rough finished and you selfle everything uh is that the way it is with

in your in your uh experience over there or is it is it concrete trying to finish

it yeah yeah we're generally generally rougher finished not that not that rough

rougher finished the sediment is usually left on so you've got a mechanically take that off and then you Prime and put

a smoothing compound down um and then the SR rating is usually

is the SR rating supposed to be uh defined by the slab but it never is so

that's all that always falls on to the contractor I tend to find like what rsr1 would be um a 3 mil

difference over 2 meters which is what um 16th of an inch over 6 half

fet uh some like that but that's rsr1 and that's what you'd if say if you were doing a hering bone in stall that's what

you'd want your prep like um and you got more chance of Angel at my

ass and finding a FL that totally honest got Well we'd say the same thing about

our floor flatness uh I think they call it an FFL number which is a uh an e inch

and 10 feet and uh you want to talk about nightmare with click we are in

love with click some reason over here um we don't do it much in the commercial World although it does get

specified um but you want to talk about a nightmare have a unlevel floor with a

click system and you got yourself a nightmare just don't work it's not strong enough it don't

work Breck and joins yep a l the Locking mechanisms ain't made for it even though

you know the guys will install it anyways and that's where sell it

like I bulletproof yeah I'm of the come

about trying to solve a greater problem that no one's using on uh I think prob

click systems come about to make lvt lvp installation easier because there isn't

enough professionals about to fit it um and the problem isn't the product the

problem is we haven't got enough installers and um I don't think installers are coming into the market

because of the in installation section of the market it's not appealing it doesn't

bring people in uh it's not regulated it's not controlled old um and you've

got like a retirement rate of 10 to one so 10 people are retiring for every one person that comes in yet as a sector

it's a growing Market um yeah it's it's a it's a problem a massive problem and I

think manufacturers are um addressing it by making products easier to fit but by

proxy are making products that are of lesser quality so that then you devaluing the product it seems like it

to me and it's it also seems like it's G in the industry overall a kind of a sour taste I mean look how much stuff went to

Pol at least over here in the US went to polish concrete uh we've talked about

this uh same problem uh Johnny on on previous podcast about manufacturers

trying to uh engineer out the labor or engineer out the uh skill that's

required um I think you know the truth is just like you said earlier I mean we

are a skilled bunch of people um so it's a it's a it's a harder I think that you

know it's probably one of the most skill intensive uh trades out there from a a

hand skills perspective a Craftsman's perspective um and and you just you try

to engineer that out and then that product fails and that's why click systems you know they they have a bad

rap in a lot of ways we all fight it um yeah it's interesting that a lot of the

problems we experience over here uh are are are very that's kind of what I was

looking at it's they try to engineer the products to be more DIY friendly so that anyone can install them and then you get

professionals to install them and then they still do it wrong because it's just

we're in a industry where there's no emphasis on training and doing things right it's

just get in there throw it down on to the next one yeah and there's no um there's no like

with estimation as well like with subcontract Market all the um software

and development that's been helped for installation uh for sorry for estimating

it's all done about selling the product it's not lot for me you need to

concentrate on how it's going to go down that's where the help is needed like

um we term over budget and scarper um you you get if you're a subcontractor

you turn up at this the shop you get giving your goods you turn up to the job site and the goods are wrong the prep

materials are wrong um and you've got two choices you've got to still May

morals and say this is not right for this service uh we can't do it um and

then you don't get paid or the budget and scaer they work with work with what

they've got get it down and get paid and run off that's uh and it's that problem

a't been addressed and that's not the installer's fault um it's the estimate

the person estimating and quantifying the job doesn't know how to install it so he's working with the best knowledge

that he's got and then the installer has to work using that knowledge and it's just a it's just a cluster [ __ ] if I'm

totally honest yeah brilliant there's brilliant

softwares out there there's brilliant softwares out there for estimating um and you can

tweak them because I've done it um but if the people making the softwares could tweak them

to know how these products go down and then um tell the in the estimator um

what needs to be sold and effectively like you guys ever know of measure square that's the one I use so that's

one a point of reference meas square like the catalog um you got the drag and drop and you you You' scale the plan out

and then you drag and drop the uh products in um the tag on and the ads uh

that you can do with that you they can be manipulated to work for um installation so that the you could

categorize it so that only products that work on that type of installation can be sold and then at

least you know that the estimator who's estimating it can only sell products suitable for that

installation and that it would be it's a very simple way around doing it but there's

no um software providing that service it's got to effectively be I think the

um all the new Solutions and the new help and the um where's that people

software developers basically have dragging the industry into the current state of affairs because I don't know

what it's like over there but I'd say that I the flowing industry is 10 20

years behind technology and it needs dragging forward into modern times all the solutions been brought forward to do

that are being aimed at selling floring they not being aimed at fitting it but floring until Go Value it's worked on

until go well until goer like you're Hammer rating your Hammer rating is beauty um it's a class idea it's um it's

a very very good way of um like over with' have an mvq uh but the problem

you've got with the mvq is it's so limited I think it stops at 3 so you could have a lad who's uh been working

for three years uh and he's a level three and then you've got a lad who's been got a level three but then he's

been working at a level three for 25 years on top of that there's no account there's no account for that um

experience there's no account for that knowledge that he gained over the 25 years and on paper them two guys are the

same and they're not they're just not and you're you're Hammer rating and is is a brilliant way of solving that yeah

thank you we're we're uh we're in be uh hopefully introducing that over in your

guys's neck of the woods but uh when we talk about Labor what what is what are

some of the things that you guys or that you've seen in um from a government

standpoint or an industry standpoint on their approach to solving some of the labor shortages that you uh mentioned

earlier um if I'm from my experience chule Tom I think it's been

ignored from my experience think the problem's been ignored yeah there there's nothing like it's difficult no

matter which way you try and get help it's difficult I wouldn't say

unachievable but it's you know it it's there's not any clear pathway at all you've got to fight to get educated to

get you know into that um is a simple answer there's not even a way of dressing it um obviously we're doing

things to try and change that to you know bring more sort of sex it up a bit

you know sort of you know this is what your business could be this is you know this is this is what 10 years looks like

if you do it right this is what 20 years looks like but at the moment it isn't most people fall into

the floring industry and sort of help a friend or um I don't know yeah sort of

yeah but it is e grow up it sounds like the same like over here you either grew up and your your uncle or your dad or

your brother or somebody was in the flooring business and you became their their help and and uh they taught you

and uh there's no there's no way to uh you know obviously like I mentioned

earlier outside go Carrera there's been no way to really incite uh any

governance to to to helping the install ER see the value in getting trained the

and when I say the installer I'm talking about the subcontract installer the uh you know the independent uh companies

can send their their employees to go get trained uh but when we started with

subcontracting and you know it's been going on for you know probably 30 40 years but it really caught wind in the

mid90s over here and um a lot of the Union um uh started to fall away and

that started to create more subs and more subs and more subs and the problem

I think is Grandpa did it the the union way and was very well trained and taught

the Son and the son taught the other son and we're in like the third generation now and it's gotten so watered down that

if you don't go to Industry Level Training like over here it's CFI and

aft um you know uh you got nact if you don't go to one of these

acronyms and start getting your industry training you're going to you're you're

you're like a diyer with a with a at best a sticker on your van saying you

install floors I mean we have to get a Resurgence in training and then bring

that value Forefront that was the idea the hammer rating was like higher Hammer

rating higher pay like you're better trained you have more experience it's all represented in that one rating and

and and you can command a a you know a better fee for that it's it's it's a

brilliantly simple system as well because it shows a commitment to improving yourself if you go higher up

the hammer rate and You' do it but you've done it by a training um and the by going and I know there a lot of them

are just accredited courses and the certificates of attendance but it's it's like we were saying before it's the mindset the sort of person that is

taking hours out of the day putting taking money out of the pocket and paying towards going for these courses

that person is trying to improve themselves to try to get their skills better and they are worth more because

as we said before it's a craft it's not a it's not a trade as such it's a craft and it's about the person improving like

that um and being able to show the end buyer the end user that you are of that

mindset that's the way forward it's a brilliant way of installing confidence in them and a way of getting that person

more money than they are like they yeah you ought to be able to set yourself apart pretty easily you know if you're

the if you're the mindset like all of us on this call like like you Johnny and and Daniel and Jose I know are heavily

certified uh and and been through all kinds of trainings you really get to set yourself apart in a way that the buyer

can understand that's one of the problems we have over here I'm not sure about over there but over here if

somebody says I'm certified in XYZ or I'm certified through XYZ the buyer

doesn't necessarily and I would I would change that the buyer hardly ever knows

that what that means or that that matters at all uh but we can all

understand zero to five yeah yeah that is simple as term

the inclusiveness of it as well um it doesn't really matter Who provided the training coures as long as you've been

on one uh that's good as well like over here you've got um you got ncf youve got

flaw skills you've got um uh CP assessments all providing similar courses but then it's almost an internal

ble as to which one's best and like none none of them are best it's it's it's all

brilliantly useful information and techniques uh there needs to be a unified Hammer rating uh the best way of

putting it that says right it doesn't really matter which LBT cost you've got gone on as long as it's level two it's

worth two hmos um it doesn't the provider is kind of irrelevant um and

then that that needs to be pushed to the buyer so that then the buyer is looking for a hammer r and then like uh then you

can if you're down south you could go to a provider down south if you up north you could go a trainer up north um and

then it spread out evenly um and it would just it improve the industry so much uh and having a clear having a

clear pathway as well like um I'm like I'm 42 um 50 the over here I've got works

I'm 75 and laying floors till I'm 75 is

it's just not going to happen it isn't going to happen but it's all I know it's all I've ever done the needs to be a a

defined Pathway to get out um and like generally Ru of th from when I started

it was always a learn to be a fitter when you get too old to be fitting you set up a shop well I Street retail is

dead it's it's it's just it's dead and it's going to get worse and worse in my opinion everything needs to go online so

over here you just become a greeter at Walmart yeah well as an installer if you like to

stay in the trade I'm of the opinion that um you it would be a lot easier rather than setting up a shop would be

to train Lads and set up a team and set up a business that looked after

installation only and say you had a a huge caret for flowing retailer and then

you had a subcontract uh installation business but that business provided the

measuring service it it held the um it held the stock so the showroom didn't necessarily have to have a warehouse it

could just have sampling um and then the installer provided that uh all for a fee

and then the business would take its make its money from from making doing the measures from staring the goods and

then it would Train The Lads up um through and pay them from the actual

fitting money and then you could scale it out and then that gives a pathway for

the knowledge not to be lost for a start from the experienced older Lads and

somewhere for them to work out the work out to to retirement because there yeah

there's not a cattin L's chance of me dragging massive lumps of carpet up staircases in 20 years I'm struggling

now it's not going to happen in 20 years but if I don't have a different we have a couple comments here

Rin says that you can just stay in it until you're 140 like he is I think he's 160 now

though but the other right the other one was Kevin he's he's wondering if you

guys are seeing a lot of high-end or lowgrade carpet over there and if a lot of people are doing or installers are

doing binding and surging I'd say B binding is growing uh

definitely um higher end flat waves is definitely growing regarding the carpet

but I'd say mid-range uh low end serves a market high end is limited I'd say

mid-range uh midrange action back secondary back is I'd say the basis of

the carpet Market 100% yeah I mean just like over here the highend I mean there's guys that do it

and then there's guys like us that have never set hands on that stuff the only times I I've set hand on flat weave or

anything is when I went and got certified for it yeah but you know it I but I do know it now if I if we ever ran

into it we'd be able to do it that's the big ticket right there you know what I find I find the higher the quality of

the product the easer it is to fit um flat wave in my opinion is a chuffing dole it's a lot lot harder to fit a

cheap po quality Carper than it is to do a fat flat wave and a me Wilton okay I

got to interrupt you just for a second for a vernacular clarification you said

a a truff and Dole Is that what we heard a chuffin dole uh easy very easy okay

Dole okay all right that's what I knew I would love about this

podcast even some places in the UK wouldn't have understood that so

it's that's a pure Ireland thing hey well yeah um yeah so it means it's a lot

easier well the higher grade quality products I know that's true um you know with sheet vinyl which is

where my skill set kind of lied was in the resilient world so lvts and uh vinyl

uh tile vinyl plank and Sheet vinyls the higher-end products typically uh I'm not

saying easier to fit um necessarily but

certainly when it comes to the really important stuff like the welding and things like that it's it's it's easier

to weld uh a quality V vinyl than it is to weld the cheap

vinyl the last uh event we were at that's what they were talking about too about how you know you take someone that

is usually installing really high-end stuff and then you give them a cheap piece of carpet and they're like I don't

even know what to do with this you know they they they have issues and it's it is it's the quality of the carpet has

tons to do with how easy it's installed yeah so

quick question for you guys about M multifam work uh what's that look like over there do you guys I'm sure you have

a a a fair bit of multifam kind of work is is the installer group in in that

services that market um a different group uh or a different type

of installer or what do you mean by multif family uh apartment complexes

condos um um yeah there isn't as many apartments

uh and flats as there is in America there tends to be more houses but I would say I would say that would fall on

the residential installers uh apart from the communal areas communal areas would fall into the commercials because of the

certain nosings and finishes and products you need to put on there um but yeah I I personally I'd say that's more

of a domestic job it's just a scale unless new builds like new build

in London uh highrise that would be the only obscure but that would be highend

residential flooring because the um apartments in London you know into the Millions for very small spaces so you're

getting very expensive floor coverings but in smaller spaces but you might get 80 apartments and again that would but

that would be bigger flowing contractors that may tackle out the the uh work

directly for the main contractor so there would be a main building contractor then you would have a flowing

contractor sub into to that contractor doing 80 Apartments type of thing so but

not not really big but that's tends to be only in the capital cities it's sort of where me and Johnny are I would say

it's few and far between you know might be blocks of 15 and then that would be done possibly you know correct me again

Johnny like like Johnny and his guys would go and do that with no problem but in the in in the cities it's slightly

bigger contractors do it go down in quality and well I'll just say you know

over here a lot of the multifam as we call it so multi-unit uh apartment complexes and

such is typically about the cheapest lvt on the market with the cheapest labor in

the market uh I've heard really I won't even tell you the cost that I've heard

some guys install that stuff for um but uh we we're not super uh big into that

market we do a few if we specify the flooring uh but our guys are you know

they demand a higher rate than um than a lot of the guys who go around the

country here and they'll they'll put in these apartment complexes for I'll just say it like 50 cents a a square foot for

LV glue down lvt lvp just much about 450 yard in it they live in a van down by

the river that's why they can do it I don't know how they do it man we we

don't have those guys but it's it's kind that brings me to to a question too and I know that we're running over a little

bit but um is is the market out there in the commercial world is it more of a bid

Market or is it more of a negotiated Market because if contractors are using specific installers for their projects I

imagine they're trusted and since it isn't the majority of a store providing

the work how does that market shake out if if there's already specifications and

do they just negotiate apprciate the work or is it kind of a gimme or do they have to bid against one another for my

from my experience in that in the commercial side of things you've got the main contractor uh the main contractor is the one that does all the bids and

he's got his favorite subcontractors so like you have uh we used to do hospitals

and we do uh all the hospitals in the north strip from Manchester to Hull um

and you'd only really have three main contractors um who would bid for them jobs and whichever one got them it would

Define which fling contractor got the job it wouldn't necessar the uh the fling contractors themselves wouldn't

bid for the main job you might get um say like you had a main contractor he'd get three prices but it was only ticking

boxes it was always only ever going to be one flowing contractor got that job and it was down a relationship so pretty much negoti

negotiated kind of uh shortlisted bid practices yeah from networking you see

you um it was the main contractor got that job you knew you'd got it it didn't really matter if two or three other

people bided to the main contractor of the floring job you knew hads you already had the relationship with it they just got two or three prices just

to take boxes they were never gonna no one else were going to get that work so as whoever took him out for dinner most

recently is the one ni contracts exactly that it's exactly that yeah whoever um

I've I'm not even going to lie I'm going to tell you the truth I've got a contract for a commercial contractor

before because I fit his house for free um I like you know if this we get this I'm not going to say the job but if we

get that then um that carpet that you want in your house your M really likes

it might just get fit and it might just not cost you out um yeah it might just

show up in your house and and it did and by Magic we got the contract me now it

works um but yeah that that's something once or twice well I

think go ahead Tom go ahead I've interviewed um some of the bigger um

eight figure um commercial contractors on our podcast and I always ask them you

know what is the best way to keep your guys busy what is the best marketing tactics for 24 and every single one

answers their Network who they it doesn't necessarily who they're going out for dinner with but that's where the

value is who they've got a relationship with a proper solid friendship stroke

relationship and based on the last work that they did so that last hospital they did that last prison they did that

that's everything to them which is good because it brings a standard of the work up but that's they're not doing massive

sales campaigns um or things like that even though they'll lose jobs sometimes but still keep really solid

relationships for the next job and the you know the company's been around a long time and that seems to be

completely different to the residential um store sort of work where you do one

job maybe for the same client every 10 years the commercial guys are working consistently for the same people and

building those relationships um in a nice but yes there's probably some underhand you know carpets being fitted

and you know couple m brown envelopes here and there but predominantly it's based on trust and and integrity that's

from what I every time I ask the same question of how have you got to this big and that that's that's the answer every

time yeah the the uh the other method's not sustainable

like you still have to do good work right and have a relationship that that

will um you know nobody wants to uh I don't think that any you know around

here anyway uh that any contractor wants to have uh you know a tough go at a

project or or have you know a a bad quality installation just to give their

buddy the job I mean you still have to perform is what we see over here um but

yeah so we go ahead you've always got to perform it was more of a case of um the

knew you were but a lot of the time the man making the decision it was bound down on price um and it was a price War

and the the people effectively and the war were always going to produce a um a

good quality install it was the usually a price way to get the actual work and

it was just a way of making them favor looking at your company rather than another way um sure I'm not it does

happen it happens quite a lot okay well hey guys

um we we are um about 20 minutes past the the hour and uh it has been I I feel

like I could stay on here for another hour but um so the but the problem is we're going to

start running out of uh bandwidth but um here we go I have a a final couple

questions for you guys and then we're going to close this podcast out from an installer standpoint do do you have uh

any big labor shops is the first question kind of what you were describing Johnny earlier uh there are

some guys very sporadically in the nation that will uh you know take it

they got a warehouse and they train their Crews uh they those guys are typically pretty fabulous to deal with

but um uh do you have any of that currently and then secondly do you do installers cross over from residential

and Commercial pretty uh equally or is it always you know know I'm more of a

commercial installer and I'm a residential installer yeah you tend to they tend to favor one or the other you

tend to find um and they tend to in my experience they tend to favor you'll

have people who favor carpets and justful do carpets people who tend to favor just and just do wood and vinyls

it's it's rare that you would get someone who has an equal an equilibrium of them of them all um and yeah if

regarding commercial and residential people you tend as a as a rule they tend

to be one or the other um the people operated in the gray that can comfortably work in either are are rarer

and rarer um and regarding teams like actual

setups for installers um I don't know one um which is why I'm creating one

myself that's how we operate so um and it's only because there isn't another

one Tom what's your input there um I mean again I've all of our 95% of ours

was residential mid to highend um all hardwood um that's always been and then

we've really cherry-picked commercial jobs um because the payment so when

you're doing residential you get 50% up or you should really get 50% up front and then get paid when you complete the

works commercial has an element of you may struggle to get some of the materials up front and then they'll pay

you 30 days from completion if the terms you know so it's yeah if you looky

and if if if you've you've submitted the invoice on the Tuesday before the Monday that you needed to do on the Thursday

you know it's like yeah yeah that's that's that's what we deal with over

here it's uh you got some billing date uh we're we consider a really good payer

for our company at 40 days in the commercial world so hey

everybody that's uh in the in the audience we've got the UK flooring podcast uh QR code up uh give it a I

know some of you have already scanned it give it a scan give these guys a listen Tom and your wife joined you on that

typically is that correct or I'm horse but Sarah's on there obviously this this

podcast will go on to there um so yeah it's it's a complete free-for all butom it's me that's present

it awesome so give them a follow and and uh check out their podcast uh we're

going to uh end this one I want to thank uh Tom and Johnny for coming on and

giving us your your uh perspective from the UK and from Ireland and and kind

from across the pond yeah from across the pond giving us some the the more I I

think about it and the more we talk the more I see so many similarities to the problems and uh so it's it's just great

to talk to you guys and and get to know what how you approach some things there's definitely some some nuggets in

there if you've been uh watching this live man some of the some of the uh

takeaways and Nuggets in this podcast you should go back and listen to this on YouTube um and then comment and and uh

while you're there just give us a like and uh subscribe subscribe but uh certainly you want to rewatch this

there's a lot of nuggets one of the best things I got to say it again there some of the other trades have a right and

wrong way we got multiple right ways to do uh things sometimes in flooring and

so that's why it requires such high training and and such a professional in my opinion so I hope we can uh the

People Like Us can can band together more and more and help heal the industry

across the hell across the planet at this point you know but really in the western world uh where you got uh you

know capitalism and and kind of free markets where uh labor operates the way

that we're talking on this podcast that we can kind of heal our industry and and hopefully attract some new uh talent in

uh get them talent that Talent placed we've got some some programs going on with go Carrera that does that that I'll

share with you Tom when we uh talk a little bit deep about it but um yeah it's just been a pleasure thank you to

Jose and Daniel you guys um are the Huddle and uh I appreciate you guys

always coming on and and um this has been awesome so uh any closing

arguments no but thank you thank you so much for having us been absolute pleasure love it yeah we' enjoyed it

thank you awesome I I just wish that uh our commercial Market over here was more

like your guys is over here we see you know low bid rules the market and then you talk to these contractors and

they're like we'll never work with them again and then on the next bid guess what they're low bid and then the same

thing all over again yeah true I appreciate you guys for uh coming on today it was it was a

blast I appreciate you guys teaching me timber for wood rubbish for trash or

cheap and you guys didn't say it directly but uh someone who only installs click lvp is pretty much only a

professional DIY I appreciate

that all right guys well uh if you're watching this we're here every Tuesday

so come and see us give us a follow like subscribe make some comments uh if you

like this content the only way that uh we can get it out to the masses is by uh

your engagement so um you know help us out and uh you know we're going to end

the stream guys but you don't have to click off just yet yep we forget to pre

preface that all the time yeah you guys stay on and we'll see the audience later

see you thanks everyone

bye

The Huddle - Episode 87 - Client Education on Flooring Projects

Join Paul, Daniel and Jose on today's episode as it zeroes in on Client Education on Flooring Projects. Dive deep with us as we unravel the essentials of navigating flooring choices, installation nuances, and maintenance must-knows. Tune in and step up your flooring game!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up huddle crew we had a little bit of uh technical difficulty thanks for joining us here on

the Huddle coming at you every Tuesday 3 pm Central if you're joining us on one of

the live streams please uh comment give us some feedback throughout the uh

process here my two cohorts Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred

flooring uh both of them are Mobile today so uh we'll be we'll be going um

we'll not only be live we'll be remote so floor God's in the

house um so anyway today we're going to be talking about and by the way we're

all we're we're creeping up on a 100 episodes folks we got to give me some ideas on what we should do special for

the 100 episode uh type in your type in your ideas for something cool to do for the h

100th episode of the Huddle anyway we're on episode number 87 and we are talking

about client education on flooring projects that's kind of a maybe needs a

little bit more uh indepth conversation just on what the topic means it means educating your client about the flooring

and the expected you know managing we've talked about managing expectations uh so

it's really educating your client about the flooring you're putting in for them

why you selected it or why you kind of uh LED them to the path of that particular

flooring and um you know properly educating them not only on what to

expect afterwards but what to expect during the installation what kind of you

know if you're doing a glue down lvp maybe explaining that you know it's got to be smooth and uh dust free and all of

these things uh that we know for for flooring per asmf 710 right so for

residential um homes or commercial properties kind of educating the process

of the installation that's kind of what we're talking about today and going to dive a little bit deeper on how to

manage that because your customers satisfaction

heavily depends on your ability to effectively communicate what to expect

during the process of the install what really all the way up to the you

know starting at the cell but particularly the install when you're in their home or their business and through

what to expect uh from the performance of the flooring and and uh you know each

job site's different each Project's different so there those expectations are different on every job

job so Jose as you're driving down the road and you probably are got a few

things on your on your uh plate here today do you mind chiming in on where do

you start managing customer expectations

well you you start at the beginning um first off is uh you know we're we're

solutionists right so we got to see what's there what's going on whether this is uh commercial residential new

construction renovation um there's a lot of there's a lot of things to factor in for for me

when I'm when I'm approaching it and uh it's a matter

of for me and this is like my opinion guys this is my Approach I try to find out what they didn't like about what

they previously had right um what is leading to the renovation is this a is

this an insurance claim or is this just uh updating is it purely Aesthetics or

yeah installed a few years ago they're just not happy with the performance yeah or maybe was you you

were breaking up there so I was going to just kind of pick up on what I think you were putting down there was you know

what what did they why is this uh renovation happening if it's obvious a

disaster of some sort then you know it's got to be replaced but if it's was it Aesthetics or the the colors are out of

date well that tells you a lot tells you your customer wants to stay trendy or at

least up to date um unless it's 1950s stuff then they just kind of skipped a

few a few generations of uh of of design

but uh yeah getting to know why they are wanting a new floor or remodeling their

home or whatever that's a great place to start plus it shows you give a oh wo woo

woo easy Paul if plus it shows you give a care about uh you know why they're why

they're shopping yeah and and can you hear me okay now I I pulled over so that way I

wasn't getting that way I have a good signal but yeah that that's that's where I was going with that it's um um setting

the expectations for for for me is is having the is understanding exactly where they're coming from and where they

want to go what's going to be the end product um uh you know and and it is different commercial than residential uh

and I'll start with the residential portion uh just to kind of get that one going is now nowadays a lot of a lot of

clients have an idea of what they want they understand a lot of the science and

performance behind the products it I feel it's it's it's my it's our responsibility as the professional to

make sure that we're educating them and setting a level of expectation that is

accurate to the product that we're going to to be installing or the product that they want because sometimes they want it

to look a certain way but it will not perform uh for for the life of the product or the warranty and um you say

Jose just to butt in here would you say that the customer is two things this is

my thought so I'm leading you down yeah I love it but but are would you say

they're both more educated and misinformed at the same time than uh

customers 15 years ago yes I'm going to they watch YouTube

videos they got an idea but they're also misinformed because they're sold that this is a waterproof flooring and and

then nothing behind that to really understand what waterproof means or what it means to have a waterproof flooring

and and you gota think too like like uh myself as a consumer um I have a habit

of picking out the words and the the the verbiage that I want want to pay

attention to the what benefits my my thought process that's what I pay

attention to and um you know it's the like the sales gimmick you know what's what's better priced $9.99 or $10 right

it's um putting the literature in front that is going to be more valuable or maybe I

don't want to say MISD but um put the customer in a position to pay

attention to what they want to hear and what they want to see um and it's I don't want to

say it's like a sales gimmick but you know you got to read the fine print you know it it

waterproof some material could be with the right system but I would say more

water resistant as a whole and that's where we come in and try to explain to them hey I'm cutting this material

that's got a coating that's water resistant so once I cut this material and I put it against the wall I'm

removing that water resistant layer oh but it says it's waterproof well yes yes

and no to an extent this piece itself could probably be considered waterproof but I would say more water resistant

once it scratches etches or or gets cut now we have an exposed area that is no

longer uh waterproof um yeah that's the that's

probably the point I'm driving at is you know they're the the consumer is more

educated they know more of what they want so we have to as sales professionals or as flooring

professionals be able to exceed that what they watched and learned on YouTube

so we need to be educate like experts in our in our field to be able to guide them from

where they're at now uh back in the day I mean people were a blank slate a lot

of times they didn't have the the YouTubes and the the all the all the other

um yeah a quick shout out our our our uh main Tech Guy Mr Daniel not on today uh

you know he usually will throw up everybody's chat but I want to say what's up Roland and Mario

Jimmy Scott yeah Elena welcome to the to

the stream guys welcome to the podcast so um floor God in the house there we go

someone's doing it for me um you're right we have to fill in the gaps that's

what it is we got to fill in the gaps um you know so sometimes it's a matter just

uh they already know and if if they're stubborn like I am they'll have their they'll have their heart set on

something and their mind will be made up and this is the video I watch this is the information right here and that's

where we got to unfold uh everything and say all right but but check this out this is the line that I'm referring to

this is the information that I would like you to pay attention to because at the end of the day we want to make sure

that we're installing everything to specifications manufacturing recommendations um and and they are

happy with what we left and it sometimes it's uh that's

where helping a client shift their mindset from Aesthetics to Performance

and life and investment versus uh well this is what I want and this is what's

going to work it's hard sell sometimes ultimately it's about you know the

customer being happy long term with their flooring and when you start moving from residential into commercial it

comes into things like educating them on the site conditions and you got to do

that in residential as well but in residential replacement anyway most of

the times you have a much better chance of a positive site condition a good

sight condition than you would on a new commercial or even a a large commercial remodel you may not

have HVAC you may not have Windows you may have all these uh these things going on on commercial job sites and that's

where one of our one of our buddies over at floor Cloud you know that's when their technology comes in so having the

technology to back not just educating your client about um the materials and how they're

going to look but then also the site conditions that are needed for that material to be installed properly as

well as the long-term performance and then you got the backside care and maintenance of it um do you guys educate

at the end of a job do you guys do that on residential I know you have to on

Commercial like you have to give a care and maintenance package as part of your closeout documents but when you're doing

a residential job do you do the same thing you give them care and maintenance package on how to properly care for the

floor um so I'm a little proactive when it comes to that if if right we're

putting down something simple like you know just a standard piece of carpet let's just call a carpet there's really

not a whole lot to talk about just let them know the ins and the outs don't over clean it don't saturate it I think

we had a conversation about detergents and how they attract dirt I we have those conversations as well but um when

it comes to installing some resilient uh and I'm just going to go to that because that's what what we do when it comes to

that I I I do have to have a conversation with them because I I look in the corner and they'll have a steam

mop ready to rock right and I'm like well you're not going to want to hear

this but um if this is the material you're going with h you're not going to want to use that that's going to avoid

any of the manufacturer warranty and they were like why why well and then we

have to go over the science behind it and I have to give them the literature um yeah why don't you guys in the

comments tell us what you guys do to educate your customer because Jose's

looking at it ahead of time and and a lot of times you got to say well even like one of my favorite things when I

did sell residential uh products was I'd tell the customer like depending on the

different fiber types uh for the carpet but you know bare feet are one of the

worst things for a cutpile carpet residential in particular and so if you

can wear some socks or some booties you'll help your carpet stay uh nice and

fluffy for long longer you won't get those oils into the product that then

attract dirt that then give you the traffic patterns and are harder to clean so give us some comments on what you do

to uh when you go into a homeowner or commercial uh project and education so

along those lines you were talking about the the Steam Mop what other do you you

probably also try to discover like how often do you want to clean because we want floors a lot of times when I'm

specifically dealing in the commercial world with say a um more of a tenant

finish like a an attorney firm or you know a law firm or you know a smaller

say a four five 6,000 foot a dentist that kind of thing how often do you have your cleaning crews in here how educated

are they and you know how do you want to live on this floor like do you want to

have to clean it all the time well then you probably don't want this product you know and this will be more cleanable or you

know you get this color it'll look clean for a lot longer because you only clean once a week right you only deep clean

once a week so a lot of those things we try to discover on the front side when we're selling

too and and that's uh that that's a good point and unfortunately for for some of

the I'm going to go to the commercial projects for some of the commercial project projects we do we don't we don't have a say in the color selection

material selection um so we know we're kind of put in a architect expected or

something yeah and say say we're doing the install for another company right and we're just the installation outfit

on there um we have to watch what we say we have to watch our approach because we don't want to overp and and and say the

wrong thing but at the same time you know the clients are asking questions and and I'll use for example I W say the

name of the place but there was a a white rubber tile going in a um let's

just call it a medical building and they were gonna have a lot of traffic and it was coming in right from the vestibule

right inside we're in Michigan we have you know all the elements and before we

installed we're like white and I had I had a friend that worked there in the office and we we had

an off off record chat about it I'm like man this is what's going to happen like

I don't don't think that this is the wisest choice but I mean it was too late everything was purchased they went ahead

with it the designer sold the the design and the color scheme

um and we yeah but at the end of the day it's still it falls on than whoever

you're installing that floor for to kind of educate them on you're going to have

to keep this thing you want this to look clean you're going to have to keep it clean that's one thing that I've learned

a lot with uh uh even on Commercial jobs

I thought this this grout wouldn't get stained and I'm like yeah it won't stain

but it it's not it's not dirt proof like it's not going to not get dirty you

still have to deep clean it it'll clean back to its original look very well

because it's an epoxy or it's a you know power grout does real good there um you

know in a lot of the urethanes but it doesn't mean you can't that you don't clean it like it's got some uh you know

repellent just pushes the dirt they have they have topicals that

you can use on some of the products that it's okay to use it and it is called for to to help mitigate that but even then

you have to keep up with recoding um refinishing and and that's where all of that comes into play um and let me go to

the comments here Rand had said on here that need take that off the installers plate it needs to come from the people

that spec or sold the project and he's right he's right um it it does however

it's one of those uh items where it's going to be talked about

throughout the project before the project during the project after the project and um as an installer you just

have to be prepared for those conversations um and just understand

that you are walking a fine line of throwing someone under the bus and saying something that you shouldn't say

or or or Mis or leading the client into into believing that they have been

taking advantage of her dup when well at the end of the day yes he's right it's not the installer but we're not only

talking from the installer standpoint from a flooring company standpoint it's our job to say those things as a

flooring installer standpoint our job is to install you know we didn't quite get

there so I think Rand jump up ahead of us in in the the in the in the uh

conversation here but yeah as installers we're there to install if they ask us how good is this going to clean we can

kind of bring that information up and say you know I have seen this clean very

well that's probably the best thing you can say and leave it at that and let the flooring company that you're installing

for uh or the architect or whoever make those uh those uh you know further

comments and you just keep yourself out of it your job's to install it uh I know

that when I was installing as a sub sometimes I get like the question H how good is this product and I'm like it

installs wonderfully ma'am um that's that's you know or I

enjoy installing this product and that's enough for them to leave me alone on it and I don't have to go down the road of

like trying to provide more information than I probably should it just not my position as an installer but we started

off kind of from the company standpoint um I do agree like time of sale Rollin

says you know it needs to be be brought up at the time of sale I think that's kind of what we were talking about

earlier and Daniel's in the house what up so

um Jimmy says the worst question from a customer is this a good product Oh my

goodness that's that's actually a very common question yeah um what do you think about that's yeah that's where I

always say I enjoy installing this product sir or ma'am whatever I enjoy installing this and you're gonna love it

too yeah I don't I don't go no further I just say I you know the product's nice

to install it's going very well let the what about how's it going to perform say

well you probably better call your salesp person on that they they probably know a little bit more about that that

the you know long-term uh longevity of this product but it does install well a

lot of times if a Salesman or a flooring company um you know kind of sets up

their projects right hopefully not a lot of that comes uh comes to the installer but I know it does so it does and um

shifting back over to like commercial where you're not really being watched

and and you don't have a lot of those those questions being asked because I I I tend to get more questions like that

when we were the residential um yeah industry and

commercialist they everybody on the project already knows what you're installing they don't ask you those

questions what the they don't is she running for president or what uh it's no

she she's got a game tonight so they had their last home game and I brought this with me so we can

uh I'm sure I'm sure she's gonna really really love that and appreciate that

um stuff right there um what I was going with the the commercial portion of it

you don't get asked a lot of those questions right the only things you get asked is why does this why does this look like

that why is this side not done how long until you get done here when do you need this area when can I have that room when

you're done um and that's where educating and being consistent on floor

floor protection um hey make sure that their overhead is done before I come in

because I'm working with the lvt they start putting ladders and Bakers on there we're gonna be you know moving

tile even though it's glued down if it's not over PS adhesive you know there's

and and I think that there's some prep that goes along with the commercial along those lines as well well even I

did a that's part of you that's where and stuff I did a post bid last week and

that's what we were going over about you know they had such a slim timeline and it's

like no like this is going to take longer plus once I install this sheet Vino you guys got to be off of it for

three days and it's he's like these are things that no one has ever told me

before yeah and that's a that's a hard truth right your customer will

appreciate that I mean they may not like it uh most of the time on Commercial

jobs you got these tight time frames but they appreciate the information at the very least you're protecting yourself

right 100% well and and you're you're prepping them for the down time as well

right you're now there's a lot of more lot more moving Parts on the commercial project too because if they got to get

in and set some fixtures they got to get in put casew workk on top of that flooring now they had it scheduled so

tight where they were in the same day or the very next day and now they're they're losing three days um depend now

let let me throw let me throw this at you so if it's a floating lvt in that area and they they plan on putting their

casework in afterwards right that's where the education comes in because there's plenty of of contractors that

don't they either don't know it or they don't think about it like hey that's got to be put in first man and then I've got

to leave my Gap around that product you can't go setting your mill work right on top of my floating floor

what that's all part of this education that we're talking about and hey by by the way uh I want to give a shout out to

Jesus he's going up he just got back from the summit and he's going up to uh

artx facility to get some uh some more training get a certification up there so

yes siros to uh to Jesus for staying in the game and keeping trained but uh that do big things right

there that dude's hitting it hard yeah great job brother um but yeah

that's part of the education too like telling them when when those things can and cannot happen

um what what do you'd guys think of doing a after um we kind of started

doing this and and had some success with it and I think we're going to kind of double down on it which is on Commercial

jobs anyway having a uh session with their cleaning company to show them how

to properly clean it like it's a three-hour deal that will come to your facility we'll work with your janitorial

staff to show them how to properly take care of this floor it's more important on like I found on biospec some of these

she vinyls biospec is one of them that man can they destroy that sheet vinyl if it's not handled right um same with like

your your textured sheet vinyls um as well as your lvts and stuff but

there's certain processes with some of the sheet vels where it's it's spray buff and you're not supposed to wax it

and they thought they were gonna wax it and all this stuff that kind of goes into that oh my goodness so uh we we've

done a few of those sessions I was curious what you guys well I'm hoping that it does happen

that way actually I mean you're telling the truth but it's usually it's not happened when we've done a session with

them because they just never we give them a car in maintenance that owner gives it to the maintenance director

maintenance director gives it to the janitorial staff and janitorial staff gives it to file 13 that seems to be

what happens the missing file yeah um no honestly that's a good idea I mean I'm

gonna be honest like um we've probably talked about stuff like that in a meeting saying that they need to educate

their staff but I don't I've never once sat down and said we need to take initiative to make sure that their staff

or the right people in their staff are getting educated so that's a yeah right down to the source to training the the

people that are going to put the their hands on it it's it's hard to get set up and Dave Gard asked are youi providing a

supply list like a cleaning supply list for them typically that's in the care and maintenance package for our projects

uh the proper whether it's a microfiber or or the proper cleaning uh chemicals

they'll tell you you know Johnson pH neutral or whoever's uh product if it's

Armstrong they're going to tell you an Armstrong product and simple green but they also they they'll also give you some you

know kind of generic ones uh that you can get from uh janitorial supply house

uh as options so for the most part we do cover that we try to highlight the most important parts which to us is when to

clean it what to use to clean it and the equipment needed to clean it so um I

think that's a great question uh Dave and uh for sure one of the falls right into

educating your client at the end of the day we do if we do a great job and the floor looks great I would I just hate to

the to think of the times that it's happened and it

has where a customer ruined the the floor because they didn't properly maintain it um so trying to find ways to

educate around that it can be difficult but um that's kind of what we've been flirting with we've done a few of them

and uh thinking about doing more of them but man it costs a lot of money honestly and costs a lot of time uh to put that

together so but at the end of the day hoping that the client has a longterm

floor not a bad idea get it set up for them to to have

one of the cleaning company Distributors to go out and do it that's not a bad

idea I guess you could always ask the uh the the the janitor the whoever's

cleaning the floors where they buy their chemicals and then make sure that send it to them and get something

set up well I the flooring distributors are like if it's a specialty product I just

hey this person is looking for this information can you provide it to them and uh I wanted them to provide it to me

and they said nope we'll take care of everything so that's kind of been my go-to since then I've always had had good luck

providing it I just don't have good luck with the with the genitori companies

like following that like actually doing it the way that the manufacturer says to

clean it so right anyway as we're on education and

speaking of Education uh we just got back from the summit I think a lot of

you guys uh that are on the stream right now some of you guys are there uh some

of you guys maybe tuned in to some of the live streams that was a good show I

love all the organizations that uh you know put

together these opportunities for for installers to get together and and chat

and find new ways to do business and H open the lines of communication up

between the installer and the manufacture was the real purpose of the summit um so yeah stay educated my

friends these are important things that you can teach your customer um you know I'm going to tap back into you guys you

guys are wealth and knowledge tell me some other stuff that we should do uh maybe from the installer side um you

know where do you f where do you find that we got to be smart and when I'm

saying educate the client this is maybe even educating the flooring company I've had this happened to me so I got an

example but that's what it is it's educating the salesman as an installer and letting

them know what is I mean since we're the ones that are on on the ground the all

the time it's letting them know hey this material can't go here this material

should be going here instead stuff like that because some of these salesmen um don't have the same training that we

do right and which that's an issue too they really should but they don't and it

it's educating the salesman when something goes wrong instead of just complaining about it you're actually in

there letting them know so it doesn't happen again well this thing happened this

happened to me not um not too long ago

on an epoxy floor is was coming right out of a warehouse into a break room and

my installer said hey man you need to have a um a uh satin finish and aluminum

oxide on your top coat that'll keep the dirty foot traffic from showing up I was

like all right well let's do it I mean what and it's true the floor looks clean

all the damn time there's not those dirty footprints coming out of the manufacturer plant those you know dark

gray Footprints it just it's not visible the aluminum oxide that's in the top

coat along with it being a satin finish and not a high gloss finish the floor looks amazing and the customer loves it

more to come so I would say sales people a good cheat code yeah dude even I've

been doing this my whole life I still learn so I would implore the salese out there the people out selling floors and

specking the floor for your customer listen to your installer a lot of times they'll they'll give you little tricks

little thoughts that you haven't maybe ain't been on the floor in the last 15 years and and there's some things they

know that you may not so Dave Gordon says go to CFI convention for continuing educ Hill

yeah and at the CFI convention um I think it was not not this year the year

last year and I think this year as well is they actually had an event specifically Geared for sales staff to

come in and understand and get their hands on some material and kind of go through the some of the process so they

kind of understand uh what the installer has to deal with it's it's not going to be a dayto DAT but it gave them more

information um and it maybe a little bit more Hands-On knowledge of of what they deal with um

and I'm sure that through conversation they talked about some of the pitfalls as an installer and the the disconnect

in communication between the sales staff and the installation um and I think that that's

really what it is and you know what I'm gonna go back and let you guys know communication right communication is key

like if if you are on the Forefront of a design build for a commercial project and you have as a salesperson you have

installers readily available who are always willing to discuss projects that

you have in mind for them give them a call show them what you're thinking if

if you're designing it right show them what you got if somebody else is specking it that way they can say hey

I'm sorry but you know putting a 4 inch strip of LBT around this recess mat in

this entry probably isn't G to work in the winter in Michigan you're going to end up with it failing you know I mean

we try to tell people people we we try to but well it's not always going to work but it is our it is our I feel like

it's our duty to explain these things but you can't go tell the the building owner that if

you're the installer you go tell yourself and like man hey this is going to be a problem dude don't be calling me

back in six months when that lvt comes loose in that vestibule I'm telling you now I'm going to install it perfectly

but it ain't going to last just know yep and and uh not saying I Told You So

after something happens um if you did try to direct someone is also very huge

uh just just being part of the solution um after something does go south um is

worth its waiting gold as well and and people respond to that a lot better than I Told You So told you like oh what last

time I call you Mr I told you so yeah the uh

the funny thing about that is nobody wins I mean nobody wins in that one

right I told you so just no one wins it feels good I guess if you're the guy saying I told you so

but um so a you comments uh here it opens their eyes and shows that they

have room for improving in their sales more efficient uh and less issues for

sure Elena is correct 100% that's uh that is a great way to approach it and

that is a that is a great way to sell your labor if that's what you're

providing um have that approach hey I would like to discuss future projects and this is why and then you guys get

better as a team salesperson in installation get better as a team as as your relationship

progresses yeah there's no harm in uh it's funny I I don't know if we have a

topic that communication doesn't come up on but you know it's it's always there

uh I mean I guess it's pretty much the foundation of any uh relationship or

solving any problem uh so it makes sense that it's there but uh it's funny how it

always comes up yeah I think that communicating on both sides the like you

said earlier though uh Jose when you're an installer you got you do have to be careful that you know don't try to

be captain save the project from Captain

Save A flow yeah I gotta be careful what I say right um but you you know there

there's there's truth to that you you can get your your store in trouble or your salese in trouble or throw the

architect under the bus which there's no architect on the planet that does not

that's going to appreciate that I can tell you it'll cause you nothing but harm so the best thing you can do is

communicate with your next line of communication which is the store if you're if or whoever sold the product if

you are in that um in that position and and somebody said in the comments you

know uh I love installing this stuff I have it in my house I don't know if that

applies on every job or how many rooms you got but uh if you do have it in your

house that's a great comeback for sure it it is and you know what I've actually I've actually honestly used

that line and were was truthful about it

yeah it's if I wouldn't install it in my mom's house I I um I probably wouldn't

want to work with it but you don't always get to pick and choose what you're installing um but you do have

control over how well you install that and and you have control over following

the specs and making sure that projects are ready ra regardless of residential

or commercial yeah and you have control over telling the the customer why you need to level that Flor floor or skim

the floor or patch the floor level this you know this uh three 3/4 inch you know

variant from the you know laundry room floor to the kitchen or whatever scenario it is I

mean the that's where your education comes in um but I there's always

relationships here and so just be cognizant of that I think I mean I know

that I wouldn't want to be thrown under the bus because I I sold something to a customer

that I think is best but the installer doesn't because there's differences of opinion too so make sure it's not your

opinion coming out you know lean on the documents and make sure that you're you're you are educated before you talk

the worst thing that H could happen is you're trying to educate somebody but you're not so make sure you're educated

on the products make sure you know your job and a lot of the installers out there do but they're there's a fair

amount that do not we all know this they always start I've been doing it this way

for 20 years yeah if they say that that is a huge huge red flag for me man every

don't tell my wife you're getting this or I will be spending more money that's Dave Garden's

line um you know um we just mentioned AR you did mention Architects a few moments

ago and I do want to this is part of the educ in the client processes the

majority of Architects do spe in their master master specs about following ASM

standards and what Daniel had just mentioned about going on the PO or the post bid um and some some generals just

don't know the what the ASM standards are and if the architect is specifying

that everything must adhere to those standards but then you're being asked not to adhere to them that is an

opportunity to educate whomever is telling you not to adhere to them about those standards that are in the master

contract yeah um that's that's that's a an education piece

that sometimes it's very hard but it has to be done yeah I mean it can it can end

up being a little bit uh contentious but dude at the end of the day you're the

installer and you're you know who's going to get called if something's going bad with that floor like you're going to

be one of the first calls if not the first call so protect yourself by knowing what you're talking about

understanding those uh standards I can't tell you like these education sessions that that we get to go through when

we're at different conferences those things I took a ton of notes at Summit when I'm at CFI I take it at their

convention I'm sitting in those seminars I'm taking tons of notes I I'm trying to learn so that I'm educated when I'm

helping out my project managers as a president of my flooring company and trying to help them understand certain

things and the same same goes for our clients when when they need some backup

when my PMS you know get into a situation and they've explained

something um the more educated they are the better off they are the more um

equipped they are to uh make sure to guide that client down a successful path

I come in as a backup when I need to I can't do that if I'm not educated so

even when I'm bidding work uh just to take this one step further when I'm bidding work one of the things I try to

pound into my estimator's heads read the product information

understand how it's supposed to be installed man it's hard for you to like bid a job without understanding these

things um when I do bid approvals for our guys I'm constantly getting into the

product data of the products if I don't know the job or if I don't know the product I'm going to learn about it

before I put a bit out that's for you commercial

guys and you know what it's funny you say that and even if it's a product or material that you're you're very

familiar with it never hurts to resim some of that information because something may change and you have to be

ready for that there is a they don't care if you didn't read it or not like

that I've been doing it this this way for 20 years sorry guys that doesn't apply anymore it could be two months

from the last time you did it much crap yeah try try uh send sending mail the

way you did 20 years ago and see how quick and efficient you are you know what I'm saying like things change man

we got technology that makes your floor go down faster makes your product look

better makes your labor more efficient I mean there's technology out there that

is a a big benefit all this if you if you're doing it the same way now that

you've been doing it 20 years ago you are are not giving yourself a compliment

dude I'm sorry that's not a compliment to yourself if you've been doing this information streamlined yeah if you've

been doing this the same way for 20 years you're not learning you're not giving your client the best and so uh

for those of you out there that might say that uh please stop saying it you're not doing yourself any

favors because because you should be learning you should be doing it the the most modern the most effective way not

the way it was done 20 years ago hey Daniel I want to point out like the obvious uh you know two podcasts ago

Dan Jose couldn't say nothing and he was super quiet you and I talk the whole

time and now Mr Jose you come on late and you have said four words the

audience wants to know what your best I'm your thoughts on these subjects

I'm in the country right so my signal wasn't the best but I'm on the highway now so it may be a little bit better I

was kind of going in and out and I didn't want to start talking and then start getting all chopped up get frozen

but I mean just look at the tool it was rather peaceful without the sound of your voice I know

right we're talking about you know doing the things the same way for 20 years but just look at the tooling and how

advanced it's been just over the last few years let alone 20 years I mean Robert's QP was uh over at the summit

and they were talking about all these tools that they're getting ready to release and it's like man

EAS making your life easier and if you're still trying to use the same thing that you were 20 years ago maybe

it's time for an upgrade yeah time to stay educated baby

get educated get the right tools get the most efficient tools and learn the most efficient new processes and procedures I

learned some stuff this last weekend that I was like dang man that's freaking cool I'm a old carpet guy some of that

stuff I I I won't bring it all up because you should have watched the live stream we gave you an

opportunity but but there was some cool stuff on there so uh Rollins cutting out

early everything yeah there there's plenty of

stuff that we didn't live stream because you know that's that's our way to to kind of entice you to get to these

things to to go there and learn because yeah some of the stuff that we did like

stream was very valuable but there's a bunch of stuff that we didn't that was super valuable too and it's man just the

the guys talking about concrete and the signs behind it it's crazy that was amazing that was amazing I've been

dealing withr my whole life dude and now I took a ton of notes on that and I got to say like you're 100% correct and a

lot of the you know speakers they don't want their stuff live stream so you got to go to Convention CFI convention go to

these things go to the it go to all of them that you can get your hands on they're all valuable I I remembered I

think it may have been Jose he was like man I didn't learn this that in this other class and we won't name anything

but at the end of the day I was like that's why you got to go to multiple different courses with different

teachers and different instructors is because that's where you learn different techniques from different instructors

not one instructor is going to be able to show you everything you know so

right what's up everybody views everybody views uh views life through a

different lens right and it's and that's the same thing with uh when it comes to the craftsmanship of what we do and

communication skills and approaches to clients to projects uh some people will

never set foot on a commercial project some people uh won't touch a residential project right um you know you have to

you got to be versatile you got to you got to be willing to look through somebody else's lens for even if it's

just a short period of time to kind of see what's out there for you to absorb for you to use and for you to teach and

and and that's the joy of going to these events is you're always having a little Peak through somebody else's lens and

this amazing the amount of information that everyone has they're willing to share yeah and it just makes you better

as an installer A salesperson an individual um makes it a lot easier to

communic with the end users with the clients uh with everyone yeah it just makes you better and at that I'm going

to say stay educated my friends uh and then educate your client I mean that's

what this whole episode was about uh but you first have to be educated yourself

you can self-educate a lot but um you know we push the events a ton but at the end of the day at the very least read

your product data get to know the product get your hands on it learn it you know go to your local when there's

training courses uh locally go go to those um you know get get trained again

I'll say the guy that tells me I've been doing it this way for 20 years to me is just a guy that does not want to learn

doesn't want to stay educated doesn't want to stay up to date with the newest processes and procedures of of our

industry and they change every year I go and learn something new so with that guys we're going to break

up for this week so you guys you guys have a great

rest of your day thanks for everybody for the comments if you like what we you know bring to the table here on the

Huddle please give us a like subscribe download our stuff comment uh you know

tell us what you do and don't like and definitely give it a share

uh Alana says knowledge is power I got to leave that one out there that's always good so um with that guys we'll

see you guys next week and I will be at the fuse conference flying in just

getting back uh just in time for the Huddle next week so we'll see you next week and uh until then stay

successful hey I like it thanks everyone all right guys guys thanks we'll see

[Music] you

The Huddle - Episode 86 - Handling Large Scale Commercial Installations

This week the guys have guest Rod Von Busch from CDi https://cdifloors.com and Jared Lockwood from Uzin https://us.uzin.com to discuss all of the different pieces that go into successfully handling large scale commercial installations.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

hey what's up huddle crew welcome to the family welcome to the podcast we are here uh every Tuesday

3M Central discussing how to maintain forward progress in your flooring career this week we got some special

guests with us Rod Van bush from CDI flooring in Nashville is that correct is

that the're Louisville Louisville Louisville Louisville Kentucky Jared with uzen did I pronounce that right uh the

Germans pronounce it uten so yeah uin and uh I'm out of Michigan Indiana I

cover s Ohio and Kentucky as well awesome with me as always is Mr Daniel

and Jose Gonzalez a preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids Michigan what's up guys welcome to the podcast we are going

to um pick everybody's Minds today and talk talk about handling large scale

commercial jobs um to kind of set this up a little bit Rod is a uh commercial

floor covering contractor I own a commercial floor covering company as well Daniel and hose do a uh their fair

share of commercial floor covering up in Grand Rapids and they are growing swiftly so you got some experience on

the channel here I hope you're joining and ready to you know maybe hear some

War Stories and hopefully uh prevent some pitfalls but um to set this up we

do work all over the nation and I know Rod does as well um the one of the

biggest things that I think uh comes into mind when I'm thinking of all the

when you talk about large scale commercial projects is all the moving Parts all the material deliveries and

procure and acclamation and schedules and G General Contractors and and then

you got your subs or your uh in employee installers and all that has to work out

really well for a job to go right and there's plenty of times uh you have some

hiccups in that process I've yet to have a what I would call a perfectly successful job but uh finding those

pitfalls um and and trying to uh build processes around them

uh work with really good Crews uh a lot of those things are what we'll talk about today so Rod welcome Jared welcome

nice to have you here with us today we're gonna give people just a few M uh

seconds here to introduce themselves and um let some more people join the call

Rod would you start us off sir sure maybe give us a little bit of back background on yourself well all right so

I'm vice president of operations for CDI exploring here in Kentucky and yes we

have an office in Nashville I'm just not directly responsible for it but uh uh we're Regional company we have offices

in Indianapolis two here in Kentucky and then the Nashville operation and I think

we're a little bit unique as saring contractors go because we're also an ESOP which means we're an employee owned

company which is um you know we started down that path about five years ago and

uh it's been an interesting Journey but uh my background I started out as an

installer started out on my knees just like most of us have and and kind of grew into my

role I feel like I'm still growing into it I've been doing it for almost 40 years but I'm still still learning and

uh every every day brings new experiences and I think that's the important part is is as we're talking

about setting up commercial jobs I think the most important thing you can do is be

proactive yeah meaning that well I want to give you some kudos for always you've

always been um since I've known you a guy that is open and

thoughtful and understands um like you never quit learning it's a it's a

process that we get beat up a little bit out there uh on projects and it's about

learning and getting better uh whether it's from a project perspective or

business perspective you've always come off to me as the typee of guy that is a

kind of a lifetime learner would you kind of look at it that way yeah I will tell you that when

I first went into business for myself and was just running a commercial work room in Lincoln

Nebraska uh I like so many instellar really jumped in and decided I was going

to do it for myself before I was really prepared you know we all get answer no that never happens imagine

that so I'd work with with the gentleman there that that really uh didn't have much formal training himself and so I'd

worked for him for right at five years and got encouraged by family members and friends you need to be doing this for

yourself so I stepped out on that cliff and the first couple years were a real struggle for me and one of the ways that

I survived was I hired some very talented people along the way and I learned from them and you know to this

day you know I that's 70 some employees here at CDI across four states and I

will tell you that there's somebody always coming in with a fresh idea something that that at first you kind of

go I don't know how that will work but if you'll take the time to invest in it it's amazing there's a lot of good ideas

out there you just have to figure out how to put the pieces together and modify them to fit the circumstances but

then they generally will will move move the needle and so yeah always trying to learn from other people because there's

a lot of Professionals in this in this industry that are smarter than I am and I know it and so I I want to learn all I

can from them right have you ever learned anything from Rolland he says that you need to smile

Rolland yeah I see that well you know Rand and I have been buddies for a very long time through our connection with

CFI and and we're practically Brothers we've been doing you know been together working on projects for years and years

and have I ever learned anything from Rand yes I've learned that you cannot put enough information on your business

card if you've ever gotten a business card from Roland you'll understand that

so Jared tell us a little bit about um how you got started and uh maybe a

little bit of background on you know yourself and what what brought you to

flooring well well I was in uh flooring for 25 years now so I started as a

ceramic installer I worked my way through college installing ceramic and then I went to distributor

sales and after that I moved to hold on just a second Jared I hate to

cut you off but the feedback we're gonna do something here to try to reduce the

feedback uh bear with us folks we're trying to get the gain on Mr

Jose's uh mic down would you turn the Auto game back

off all right Jared maybe pull the mic towards you if that's possible sure are

we good now just talk a yeah that sounds better there we go so I don't need to

shout in this thing this has got a pretty good gain I like it yeah all you got to do is talk right there and you

sound you sound like the sexy podcaster right now know so you're ready to

roll yeah so I uh I started in flooring I was what 99 maybe and uh as a ceramic

installer I I installed my way through college and then I moved to distributor

sales for seven eight years and then after that I've been with uin now for eight years so in technical

sales so that's kind of the cliff version so I've installed bunch of different types of flooring and I've

seen a lot of really horrible jobs so so and the one thing that I've picked

up is you know learning is the key I find that every

time I go to training even our trainings that I learned something new every time

and I've been in the industry for you know 25 years in technical rep for eight so just the fact you can pick up little

details and you just got to understand that you don't know everything and you know you just one little detail

that you pick up and just have the humility to admit that you didn't know it before and now you know it now so

yeah we talk about that a lot on the podcast here is we've had um some Crews

that you know have been in the flooring you know been doing it for 20 25 years

not certified it's always 30 you know yeah I think that depends on what what

portion of the country you're in it's like 20 around here is that that that thing but um what was interesting is we

sent two guys and they they were good installers but they got they went through R1 R2 so they could get into the

uh you know into C1 and C2 and when they left those um

certifications they both came back and we're like man you know I I didn't know

what I didn't know and I tell that story a lot but it's true these these guys were good installers but they they had

room to improve they were humble enough that I finally got them into a certif

you know several certification classes and um they were blown away with what

they learned I I see that a lot with installers as well as you know people

like yourself who believe in learning and you you find something out new that might might just change your outlook a

little bit so yeah and we end up on a lot of large projects and stuff out

personally on those projects just because like you want to make sure those

projects go well and you don't have any hiccups and that the TRS the crews are all trained properly and you run into so

many crews that aren't trained properly you you have to learn how to basically

tell them and break it to them that what they've been doing wrong for the last 25 years you can now tell them how to do it

right in a way that doesn't make them feel you know embarrassed they belittled and any of that so there's you know

pretty much up how Jord and I met thank you for sharing

that all right well let's get into some of the stuff um we got some folks

on I mean right out of the gate let me follow up Jared's comment because on

something that I I I think needs to be needs to be said and that is we all hear

day in and day out about the shortage of installers okay we know we don't have enough to go

around but what people don't talk enough about is the undertrained installers

that have been in this industry for years that really need to elevate their game and and the opportunities for them

moving forward and how much more money they could make and how much more efficient they could be with their time

if they would invest a little bit more in their careers and I I don't hear spoken often enough about that issue

because it is absolutely true we need more more young people entering the industry but it's just important to me

that the people that are here have access to upgrading their skills hey man and and that that's a

necessary thing for the new if new guys come in I I had

a talk about this with CFI and with FCF and these these folks I said you know

yeah it's it's um it's important that we get new people in but if we don't still

focus on the making sure that the current pool of installers are trained

who who do you think these new guys end up with and then we're just duding

diluting kind of mediocre skills even more and I think that's kind of the the

uh one of the main problems of the industry is you know once the unions

kind of started faltering off in the trainings uh you know you got grandpa

that was Union you know journeyman installer and then maybe his son wasn't but he taught his son and so he he

absorbed a lot of that then he taught his nephew and before you know it it gets diluted so much and people finding

their own little shortcuts before you know it it doesn't the the way of installation doesn't even resemble the

way the grandpa used to do it and um we have to continue to push for

certifications push for trainings encourage people to go get those and

still right in line with that keep keep working towards um you know bringing in new guys because we we

obviously eventually are going to run out because people are going to age out so that's right well you talk

about yeah you talk about age and out and stuff and then the the guys that are in it right now I think like the FCF and

what they do is amazing right trying to bring in new people but that just leaves

us you know fending for ourselves so to speak to where there's no programs that are offering us

um any to any type of funds to to to help us out when like Eduardo says you

know it it is an investment it's quite an investment things aren't cheap

and we're just not paid well enough as we should be in order to get the

training that we need a lot of guys are gonna want to just focus on the the

project that they're on instead of going to get this training because they can't afford it and that's just the industry

that we're in right now well I think I think part of that is price follows skill though how many hours do we have

to talk about this because this could go on for a couple days 100% yeah it's a

pretty complicated question that you just asked but sorry Paul go ahead no I

I I I think it you know uh price will follow scale uh

eventually that turns around and you know I I speak of my uncle quite often

who was a superintendent but a carpenter and a superintendent and he did great I

mean he had a he was doing it did it for 35 40 years or

whatever and his skill set created a great lifestyle for him and my my his

family and and but as skill gets diluted that's where

pricing comes a a problem it's not just that the the prices that are out there

are too low or or and that I mean certainly we all want to see prices rise

with uh flooring installation with within the industry but at the same time

when you're bidding jobs and you're doing that stuff everybody on this call knows what that's like you have to bid

in a competitive Manner and we you don't even you you can want to pay somebody a

lot more but the fact is you're constrained by what the market allows a systematic approach to it probably the

chance to plug go career's hammer rating here is the fact that if you're awarding

work based on the skill and what we found I mean there's a lot of guys out there that have very low Hammer ratings

if any and then there's some release standouts you know uh the truth is is the more people that are on there that

are trying to increase their Hammer rating and increase their profile then you're getting that you're bringing that

skill back in and I I can't all I can tell you is the data shows that the

higher Hammer rated guys make more money they have they don't only do more volume they get paid more uh they they can they

I wouldn't say command a uh uh whatever they want but they certainly if you if

you've dealt with a a really good guy and then I'm going to I'm going to get us away from labor or we're going to go

down a rabbit hole for a while but if you deal with a really good guy that

takes care of your commercial job really well and is a great communicator you're

you don't have to go out to the job site quite as often you don't you know they're not Pradas they just take care

of your project and understand what customer service is and how to treat your your GC and how to treat the

superintendent when that happens I would I will pay that guy more

because it may come out of my profit at that point but at the end of the day I'm spinning my profit either on overhead or

on that labor and if I can if I spend a little bit of my profit on that labor because they take away from my overhead

that's kind of how I look at it and that's part of maturing into our conversation about handling large scale

commercial projects or large scale commercial let me address the value of of having a

subcontractor that really performs at the level you just described you're 100%

right I can pay a guy a little bit more money than the going rate if I know I'm not going to have to I hate the word

babysit but I'm not gonna have you're right it's babysit that's the only right word there if I don't have to go out

there and supervise his quality I don't have to go out there and make sure that he's staying on schedule that he's

communicating his needs and and looking ahead to see what he's going to need the

upcoming days all those things if if that guy can perform at that level he is certainly

worth his weight and gold and I I I'm G tell you those are the guys that as I'm

putting together work schedules they're the ones that that get the prime job they're the ones that get yeah the and

they should be rewarded they should be rewarded so you know at any given moment we probably employ 70 or 80

subcontractors around Kentucky and Ohio and Indiana okay

and it is amazing the conversations I find myself in where somebody's going

well how come they got that job and how come they and it's it's really easy to

explain why but they always want to challenge that and so you know the important

thing if you really want to grow your business put your ego on a shelf for a

while set that aside admit for a while that you don't know everything and

listen to the people that have been in it longer and understand how things work build relationships with people

that are smart that understand and it's amazing how far that'll take you but you

know to go out there in in I had an installer and I certainly won't mention his name great guy and have a lot of fun

with him we go play golf occasionally and he does good work but he's been

trying to grow his business and you know I bet everybody on this call has been in that situation where you're trying to

transition into a business owner and getting off your knees and wanting to supervise and wanting to go bid more

work and wanting to and you're now relying on guys that are less talented than yourself to go perform the day in

and day out stuff and so we had a problem on a school he was working on and and I

called him in and I said you know we've got you scheduled for two jobs coming up and they because of some movement in the

schedule you can't do both he saidwell why can't I I've got enough manpower I saidou don't have enough

supervision that was not a fun conversation to have because in his mind and this was his response why are you

treating me like that I always take care of my problems yeah well the problem is is

that you have too many problems I was gonna say that we had ear today with ccs and

it was it was it was actually baseball and recognizing

[Music] I think you got Daniel running to your

rescue because you're we're still having trouble with your mic yeah we're we're having some

problems hearing you uh there Jose we'll bring you back on here in a sec see if Daniel can can can get you lined out

this computer sorry about the technical difficulties but if you're on the call

right now one of the things I want to bring up here is that what Rod just said is the bottom line is it's not just your

ability to install a particular flooring it's your ability to communicate it's your ability to be professional your

ability to set up your projects and your labor and your guys and make sure they're trained we talk about this a lot

on the Huddle is if you are a labor provider and you're going to start supervising those people should be W2s

let's not you know one of the hardest things to deal with is 1099s going to 1099s going to 1099 going to 1099s

before you know it the guy that's actually doing the work is making squat that's the problem keep it if you own a

company as a labor provider your guys should be employes W2s of your company

and then you sub from other flooring companies or Builders or whatever you want but at some point the 1099 train

down to the bottom has to stop and that's one of the problems that that is created um or one of the uh situations

that have created so many problems um so anyway what were you can you try that

again Jose and I'll cut you off quick if you're if you're not sounding too well can you say what you were GNA say

sir I don't even know if he can hear me now all right moving

on poor Jose so um so Daniel in your

guys's business when you're doing when you guys are doing a a large scale project labor what what does it look

like to be working with a another flooring company when you when you are doing labor only I know you guys don't

do that a ton anymore but when you do what does it mean those soft skills I I mentioned

like what what does that look like for you guys I mean I think Rod said it best when he says you don't have to babysit

someone right and that's really what what we push and

um and what we provide so uh I was just I just got a call from one of the the

local high schools and they said you know they got our information from one

of the the gc's and you know he called me probably an hour after that and was

like yeah I gave him your number I told him that you guys are the only people that I trust to be able to do this

project and not have to be babysat those were his exact words and that's really what it comes down to is how can you put

all the information out for someone hand it over to them and trust them that that

they're going to get the project done the way that it needs to be done without having to call you every five minutes

hey should I do it like this hey this is happening what's going on it's that that's really the the value

that you should be getting from a sub so what does that what does that

look like in a in an actual basis what does that what is it to you Rod or

Daniel feel free like what does that mean in an in day-to-day activity is

that them communicating more often or better or like when you when I say job

setup when I what I mean by that is looking out and and calling our you know

our project manager and saying hey you know I'm GNA be done with this area they

got me in in three days I need that other area and we're talking large scale jobs I'm talking School and hospitals

that you you you're going to be on site for months um what what does it mean

exactly to you guys yeah for us it may be a little different than than some other organizations because our our

infrastructure is set up where we have project managers that that perform specific responsibilities and most of

them don't relate to the job site we have installation managers that that travel to the job site prior to

installation making sure that they go check to see if the job's really going to be ready making sure they

understand the schedule making sure that the conditions on the job site are conduced to installation which is a big

deal whether that means taking moisture testing or or going in there and arguing with the contractor about what you have

to have for temperature in the building and what the humidity settings need to be and and all that becomes very

important in supplying a quality job that you don't have to worry about blowing up down the road and don't have

to worry about involving a manufacturer over something that wasn't acclimated properly and so we go to pretty good

length before we ever put the installer on the job to make sure that we have most of those things organized for them

so what I expect of a good contractor is to kind of pick up where we've set the

stage and move through the process of installing and coordinating with the other trades and even then I don't leave

them on an island I expect my installation manager on a large project to be there at least once a week just

being there to support it here here's what most people tend to they

misunderstand as a flooring contractor I can't grow my business without good subcontractors or more hourly people one

one or the other correct and so the bottom line here is is this important to me it's vital my future that those

subcontractors can be efficient with their time and are making a good living because if they're not there's plenty of

opportunities for them to go elsewhere and so you got to kind of be a good

partner and you have to look out for their best interest and sometimes their interest may have to come above your own

but ultimately most important thing is the relationship I have with my customer

and I'll do all I can to protect that but I'm not going to throw the installer under the bus instead we're going to stay engaged so we can steer them away

from trouble well I like how Daniel always calls it trade partners because

that's how that's really what it's it it should be is they're they're Partners in getting this project done and when you

set up a project for an installer and they do a a good job it's the day-to-day

communication that they have with the GC and the day-to-day um uh schedule that

to me is so important and then not waiting to the end of um the the you

know know till you're out of something to say hey I'm out of this or I can't find any more of this or whatever the

situation may be those things do happen on projects I mean you set them up as

best as you can but you got you know time uh you know timely deliveries a lot

of times we can't just deliver a whole project most times we can't deliver a whole project to a job site and if you

did half your [ __ ] would be you know door stops and and

off yeah uh so it's like these end time deliveries you try to do well I mean

it's happened to us plenty of times when materials went out but the warehouse crew didn't grab the transitions or did

didn't grab the yeah or yeah some some part that is needed or they take the

demo machine and then don't bring the ramp so they can't even get it off the vehicle that sounds like something might

just Happ those Happ those types of things

happen and when they do happen uh when your trade partner is is looking out

ahead a little bit and not just at that day or that moment of getting the job done and looking out ahead at the end of

the day um and and can help the flooring company be more efficient by hey I need

this like that daily communication I I love talking to my Crews first thing in

the morning how's it going you got everything you need job set you got any

issues you see any problems see any hurdles no okay great call them at the end of day how to go today it's like a

five minute conversation um and we're a little bit different than you Rod we

don't have as many uh installation managers we've got two for the entire

company and we got five or six uh project managers so RPMs have to get out

to the job sites or do link calls to the job site and walk the job with the guy at the end of the day or make a phone

call I love doing link calls because I can walk through and pick up anything

that I need to have them fix uh but at the same time it's it's I I see

communication as one of those like looking out ahead understanding what the

project requirements are going to are and the schedule and then communicating that back and and having that

partnership that's what I enjoy that's when it seems like it's an enjoyable thing because I certainly have jobs that

are not so enjoyable hey I see one of my hourly installers signed on Josh

Berlin Josh is currently running a big project for us in Lexington a brand new

hospital there and I think he'll tell you himself that it's been quite the

learning experience for him you you can be a good installer

And yet when you get into the mix and sometimes the politics and let alone the

logistics and the coordination on a large project like that it really is something you have to experience to

fully understand the complications of it right and the for me the best thing is

is I said it in the first sentence be proactive be thinking ahead the entire

time what am I going to need how am I going to get and I I'll add one other

thing we may look at something as a two-e look ahead and we'll put everything down on

paper where we're going to be each day with each crew because we'll have multiple Crews sometimes on our same same project so we're scheduling out

everybody for two weeks you better have a plan B because too often your plan a falls

apart and then that crew doesn't have somewhere to go so I'm always trying to lecture my guys on you're it's like hey

I'm going down the interstate and there's a detour I know I've got to go around it but I got to eventually get

back well so how you navigate that has a lot to do with how efficient you are and

how much money actually flows into your hands can you can you keep yourself busy

when it's important to stay busy anybody can run a job when nobody's in your

way figuring out how to navigate when people are in in your way and still

manage to get the job done and still not sacrifice your production is something something that has to be learned right

so when we were on a well when I was running um one of the last hospital

projects and that's you you were saying you know what does that look like dayto day and with us um since we do call you

know each other partners and then once you realize that you do get the training in order to to be able to charge more

that's where um we have worked oursel up to right and with the the partners that we work with what was going on is

we essentially take that role of being the project manager in a sense on that job site I'm the one that has eyes on it

all the time so I'm the one that's going to the meetings I'm the one that is

talking to the GC saying that hey we're going to be ready for this area tomorrow we're going to be ready for this area

next week stuff like that so um in order to get to that point there

there's really no other way to get to that point other than like Josh is running a project like that and I mean

baby sister's going through it right now where she's running a a a project like that and that that's what it is I mean

some sometimes it's myself when I was on that project was not doing any anything

on the floor I was going to this meeting I'm going and and checking the material

I'm going to make sure that these areas are cleaned I'm going to make sure that you know everything is set up for the

crew that is working with me to be successful for the next two three four

days yeah and those yeah that's the foreset yeah and those politics are are

learned so I mean it just takes experience on those type of job sites to

know well you know what does the GC foran expect and you know what are the

other trades how do I have to negotiate with them to get access to it when I need to to to keep the job moving right

so there's a lot of just like you only learn that by doing it well this is going to sound egotistical and I don't

so take it with a grain of salt but you know a lot of times I'll go on a job site discuss a particular scheduling

issue or or a problem with a superintendent and there's been times that I've had to

stop them in the middle of a conversation and say I'm trying to help I really am trying to help I'm not here

to fight with you I'm not here to battle I'm trying to come in to help you and it doesn't hurt the fact that on any given

year I'm associated with 200 Commercial projects how many buildings do you build a

year and so in relationship to that I'm seeing a lot more scheduling issues than

he does so there are times that that even though I don't want to ever come

off arrogant I am the expert in the room he needs to listen and more often than

not if I can gain his trust where he'll listen to me we can work through most of the problems but

there is a there is a sector of superintendents out there that are kind of old school and they don't want to

listen to anybody else they want to dictate how things are done those jobs never Flow as well as the ones where

everybody collectively manages the project yeah I've uh I would agree with

the uh the statement that the old there's some old superintendents out

there that are kind of stuck in their ways and um

want to dictate to you when you're going to do something the problem is they want to dictate to you when

you're going to do something and when you're going to finish something and those types of constraints are what

cause project schedule issues and trying to get jobs done we we know what it

takes to get our job done and we know what the durations are uh on a particular job site and so I like what

you said Jared about neg negotiating that that is a negotiation like learning

how to talk to people and get what you want is the essence of negotiating and

that's what we as you know when I was installing one of the things that I was

I finally got good at I was terrible at it in the early days but I did get better at it and got got pretty good at

talking to the other trades understanding where they're going to be and not making a plan behind the

gc's you know without the GC but gaining some information so that I could talk to

the superintendent hey I talked to the electrician you're going to be out of there tomorrow can I get in there and

get my stuff done before you you know drop your ceiling tile um or you know I

would love them just to be out of our way and we never put floor in before the all the everything's done but that never

happens so you know trying to fit yourself in where you can and then

understanding cure time times especially if you're using some of your your products like the moisture mitigation

Jared or self-leveling you got cure times and stuff that you got to understand and they don't always

understand that so bringing that level of expertise I don't think that's arrogant at all I think it's absolutely necessary on most jobs yeah and

sometimes you just have to let them know what the trade-offs are like most decisions we make in the construction

industry have some sort of trade-off whether it's cure time or workability or finished prod product or having to add

another primer or whatever right we always have you know if you get a faster

cure time guess what it's going to cost more money and that's a trade-off and you know it's the same thing when you're

discussing with a foreman on a job site with the GC you're talking with him and you're like well if you push us off

another day then I don't have the same group of people coming back here now I'm

G to have two less people because they have to be on a different job and this is what your trade-off is right like it's going to take an extra one day or

two days or whatever to finish this particular area or do something and you just got to let them know what the

tradeoff is for the decision they're going to make and then you can let them make the call right um but you have to

let them know what the trade-offs are well you know it's interesting we're talking about gc's and we're leaving out

the whole construction management segment which has to be managed even different than the GC model might uh

construction managers unless their construction management at risk often are a lot more hands off and they really

do expect you to handle the logistics and the scheduling with the other trades

and they'll set up their meetings and everybody goes in there and I always get a kick out it because I say you know

okay it's it's the Friday morning Liars Club because and tell stories about what

they're going to have done that they're have no chance of getting done but it's important when I was a young

installer I used to really I mean they nicknamed me ramrod because when I got on the job site you just get out of my

way I'm there to do a job I pushed my way through I would irritate and piss

off plenty of other contractors on the job because I had the mentality that

I've got two weeks to get done I'm GNA get it done hell high water and I want to tell you what it was

counterproductive and it took me a long time to find that out because I kept running into the same contractors and

guess what they remember and and if they didn't like you after you finish the last job with them they're not going to

like you any better when you start the next one and so it's important that you

do kind of look at it more globally and you look at how can I fit into the bigger picture and how can I make it

work for everybody not just me if you show a little bit of kindness and a little bit of generosity and you're a

little bit creative when you run into one of those situations not every other contractor on

the job will duplicate your effort but the majority of them will buy into it

and they'll treat you with a level of respect that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise and and so this business is about

relationships at every level every level and so the idea is is

to go out of your way to try and build that next relationship because it pays dividends you know we get a lot of work

that we're not always low we get it because we've created a situation for

our ourselves where people want us on the job so even sometimes when it's a hard bid we're able to kind of navigate

our way through to be in position to to win that job and it's because people want us and I think that's important and

so as we're talking about cdi's business philosophy you have to understand that has to funnel all the way down through

our crews they have to share that they have to they have to demonstrate they understand that that sometimes is is a

complicated issue yeah and I like what you said there about

um you know having relationships all the way through I you know there's plenty of

times as a flooring contractor we don't have booms on jobs all the times or LOLs or or uh tella handlers whatever you

guys want to call them they got many names but man can you make a buddy with the Mason that's on site for so long

that'll let you use his maybe buy the gas or a sixpack of beer and I don't

know how many times that deal yeah it's a case now no

no more [Laughter]

inflation yeah you know that that relationship is is what those

relationships with your subs with your GC with everybody the ultimate goal and

what we try to get our our people to understand and what I implore like on

this podcast is understand that to be successful in any business you have to

have the customers needs at at in front of you like that's got to be your number

one concern is dealing with the customer needs the problem that we have in

construction and particularly by the time it gets down to flooring is those customers needs

are um sometimes unachievable and it's getting down to

crunch time I've got a a big uh a big project we're doing right now uh one of

my managers is fighting on where the owner wanted a whole another wing of

this this um condo project opened up at the same time and it wasn't on the

schedule the owner wants it the GC didn't want to say no you know all this stuff and then that just flows down to

you and now they expect that you got like 30 guys just sitting in the wing somewhere doing nothing ready to just

deploy to their job site and while we have some some mechanisms on being able

to pull some of that stuff off it can be very complicated to do so um and that's

that's just part of how why this business is a t can be a very tough business but it can also be very

rewarding when you're able to get something like that done for a for a client and they don't forget it very

quickly if you do pull it off for well I will tell you that that one

of the things that that I'm not ashamed to say I utilize it on a regular basis when I'm getting kind of pushed by a

contractor and they're not giving me the space they need but they want more manpower and I think we've all lived

that experience too now get me more people well where am I going to put them you know you need more guys you need

more guys I got I got to get this area done and and so a lot of times we'll get more creative and there are times that

I've have sacrificed and and the guys that work for me probably don't always appreciate it but I put them in a in a

second shift where they didn't have to work at the same time the others did so they could be more efficient and yeah oftentimes I have to

put the bill for that sometimes I can pass it along to the contractor but you got to get you got to get to a point

where whatever expectation is reasonable is somehow achieved and so

sometimes the definition of reasonable gets a little skewed but yeah you bet you better figure out what that

is and so I I will tell you that I'll often tell an install or tell a contractor that bringing more manpower

is not the right answer and we'll work through the whole scenario and and sometimes we'll come up with a whole

different plan but I'm never afraid to tell my health care customers that guys

if you're not ready when you're supposed to be ready the these are sheat vinyl people they're in high demand if they go

somewhere else I can't promise you they're going to be back here when you need them so you better find a way to be ready and you'd be surprised how

frequently that works I always tell people we've all lived it the elevator people can show up anytime they

want work elevator people can show up anytime they want and everybody

accommodates them because at least here in Kentucky there's only three elevator companies so you know they're pretty high and so they just work with them and

I keep saying if you can accommodate them certainly with a little planning you can accommodate the rest of us we

just need to turn around and do something that most gc's are not accustomed doing and that is to manage

the schedule from day one not once the interior traits begin their work yeah we talked about this you know before too

and it's um like they're always like you guys can

work at night and stuff like that when it's like no why don't you just make these people that are in our way work at

night and they don't like those conversations either no they never do they never do and I think that's not a

First Choice that's kind of a last resort but if you really have to find a

way to get it done you've got to get past saying no and you got to say yes I don't I don't

know how but I'll figure it out and that's that's kind of what we do sometimes it's just simply say gota

figure it out yeah we can hear you Jose holy

smokes I Ain back I've been muted this whole time and it's I know well it's

just been killing you you sound like a mouse but I have so

many notes right now yeah it is killing me okay very great either what what what

I um unfortunately for Jose who does uh always bring the bring the the heat

during the Huddle here is we're nearing the end so I want to kind of distill all

the conversation down into like best practices so

um I'll fire off and then we'll just go uh around I I would say best practices

for the for the flooring company side set your jobs up correctly uh like

understand your project if you're a project manager uh know know your schedule and then I am a firm believer a

very firm believer in having kickoff like pre-construction meetings on site

going through the job and really understanding what the schedule is what the demands are and then giving them

good ways to communicate back and forth with both video uh capabilities and text

messaging you know let them know what the best way to get a hold of you is what I'm trying to say as well as the

way you like to commu to communicate so to me it's communication and project

setup how about you rod well I think this is more

philosophical but but I will tell you that I think one of the most important things that you can do on a large job is

find a way to get the superintendent to like you okay really really important thing to do

you know I tell our installation managers all the time hey if you got the opportunity take him to

lunch figure out what his candy is figure out what it takes to get him on

your side about it the wrong way you want wrong way okay well anyhow um so

along that lines I think that communication has to be a daily

thing I think the more you're engaged in setting the schedule up and maintaining

the schedule and modifying it as needed the more successful you'll be as a flooring

contractor now that doesn't mean you're going to have a voice with every superintendent sometimes it doesn't work

some of the best advice that that I think I can give after doing this for 40 years still is not going to work every

time but I think it'll work the majority of the time and if you get incremental improvements across the board I think

you'll find your life is a hell of a lot easier so I always say be a problem solver don't be a

problem that that superintendent is probably dealing with 10 12 14 other

trades and they're all coming to him with problems when you become the problem solver you become a Val valuable part of

his team and that's and I'm not saying that to be cliche I really no I love

that saying be a problem solver and not the problem yeah how about you Daniel

let mey Jose let's get you in here yeah let me try to go because I gotta get some talking off my chest here so um

100% agree with the uh do your best to to get the the GC on your side I agree

with that right there um another couple things I'm going to touch based on a few of the items that you guys spoke about

was communication is key in order to for for you to have a plan B and for the

plan B to work out you have to be able to communicate sometimes for me it was

harder to have a wide openen job than it was to have a cluttered job because now we're ahead of schedule and my plan B is

more important to have the place um when I had three weeks plann for a project a

month now we're done in two weeks what am I going to do now uh communication for that and updating every day

um the getting the the rest of the contractors on your side like you said

Paul definitely definitely buy buy a case of beer help them out buy buy the the crew

lunch by if you're working at a facility where their employees are unloading you buy them lunch do something that's going

to be remembered stand out separate yourself that's that's really all I got

guys and and be be ready to get comfortable being

uncomfortable that's about all you can do how about you Daniel and Jared you

guys I'll let Jared go first um from a manufacturer perspective

um I would just say like utilize your manufacturer reps if uh especially difficult situations where I've seen uh

I've seen contractors say word for word what I say to either an owner's rep or a GC rep and

they'll be nodding and completely agree when I say it and when the contractor said it they thought he was trying to

rip him off with a change order so utilize your manufacturer reps whether it's the adhesive rep the Floor Covering

rep uh the prep rep like uten um use those reps to uh to help your cause like

we're we're we're industry experts as well and sometimes they'll listen to us

when they won't necessarily listen to the flooring contractor on what's necessary and what change orders are necessary if somebody like from the

manufacturer level is advocating for the change you guys have I like that advice and and it

probably can't be overstated because I want to tell you the number of times that that I've argued with a contractor

about jobsite conditions and then got the manufacturer involved to come in and say you're not going to have a warranty

you're not going to do that when not yeah makes all the difference in the world it really does yeah they they

listen to the manufacturer reps when they think that the floring contractor is just trying to rip them off and like

it's like I I get on a job site I'm like I'm not saying a word different than

what the floring contractor already told them but since it's coming out of my mouth somehow it all of a sudden has

some sort of credence behind it and they just they just look at it differently because they think our our motivations

are different or you know we're the ones sitting behind the warranty so you know if they want that backing they have to

do what we say so and I'm right there like CU this is kind of a

all-encompassing thing with me going last because with what Rod said you know

getting on their good side sometimes getting on their bad side can end you up

on that good side because that's happened multiple times where I'm like nope this is what I'm going to do and

then I just do it and then they come back and they're like wow you guys got that done really fast and I said I told you that now if you have this next thing

ready it's going to be the same thing so that that builds that trust with that contractor and then it's crazy

because that is the same contractor where I was on a job site and we were having issues and I called Jared so

being that problem solver I called the rep and I'm like Jared this is what's kind of happening what's going on what

do you recommend he recommends something I go back to the GC saying I already talked to the rep this is what we have

to do and being that problem solver so it's it's kind of you got to do all these

things all at the same time and you have to have the the mindset to where you can handle this kind of

stuff and yeah it it takes a lot it t it takes a lot and a lot of time to get to

where you're comfortable doing everything but you do need that time

yeah well I I would say that to kind of close this out here

you know all we we talked a lot about the flooring um you know from a flooring

company standpoint if you're an installer on here watching uh I I would

say understand that don't take everything personal from the gc's and these things don't you know to me it's

like you got a job to do you have the skill set to do that job and don't there

there's Gruff superintendant out there especially you young guys probably need to hear this there's Gruff

superintendant out there don't take everything so personal you have a goal keep your goal in mind like for that

project and and communicate with your your flooring company if you're working with one and try try to remember that

you have a daily you know uh objective that you want to meet and so that

communication that keeps being brought up is important for us to communicate with our gc's but it's also important

for you guys you the subcontractors out there to communicate well with your your

flooring company you know everything from Material deliveries to getting the

product installed to site conditions we're just not there every day even the best of us can't be there every day so

good communication between us when we're working together uh will help both of

our Lives go a lot easier and then uh last but not least is when we from a

flooring contractor standpoint when I'm dealing with gc's I I like you know what

you said Daniel about sometimes it's not um you know just sometimes doing

something they don't like is getting them on your side I always look at it like what is the best for the project

and sometimes I have to force that what is best for the project not just me but

actually for the project and for the end user that is correct I agree with that

well real Qui just do what you say you're GNA do yeah that's a good policy oh my God

if you just do what you say you're GNA do it it's like magic because all of a

sudden they don't worry about you no more you're the one guy out there they don't have to worry about so just deliver what you

promise prom deliver yeah we can cut out this whole podcast and just do what

Roger said just do do what you say you're gonna do that's it that's the whole podcast right there

well the podcast has come to an end guys uh thanks everybody for joining us today

hey give help us out here give us a like a subscribe comment you know get the

word out the the bottom line is we don't uh you know have a lot of uh algorithmic

knowhow we need you guys to share the show talk about the show and get the viewership up that's what's going to

show the platforms that you like what we talk about uh as Daniel has at the bottom if you have a topic that you want

us to cover send it to Ashlin goar.com and we'll get you on the podcast maybe

at the very least we could talk about a subject that is important to you so uh

we' like to get on here and wrap kind of like the you know just a fireside chat kind of uh thing and we hope you guys

enjoy that um that platform so thank you for joining us we'll see you guys next week 3M Central we'll see them this week

because we're going to be at the summit starting well we we'll be there tomorrow but then I think it starts yeah we are

going to be shooting an overtime at from The Summit in Dalton Georgia uh you know

take that QR code if you can make it down there I know it's it's kind of last minute but if we've implored you guys to

get down to these conferences because what Rod was speaking about earlier about you know networking and getting

and the this business being about relationships you will you will meet people there that have been through what

you're what you've been what you are going to go through I should say and can help you navigate some of those pitfalls

trust me if you get to the summit or you get to cfi's Convention that we go to

Every Time CFI and fci's Joint convention those are where you meet the people that can help you get you know

get better at your craft and get better at how you approach your business and grow your company in a sustainable way

and maybe maybe avoid some of the pitfalls we were talking about here early on when we all got started yeah

Thanks Elena for passing stickers out Only Solution yeah all right thank you guys I appreciate it all right thanks

for joining us Rod Jared thanks for joining us and we will talk to you guys uh this week and next week adios see you

see thanks [Music]

everyone

The Huddle - Episode 85 - The Role of Apprenticeships in Flooring

This week the guys are joined by Carlos Mongalo from the NFCAP to discuss what role apprenticeships used to play in the flooring industry, what role they play now, and how they affect the employee to subcontractor ratio.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up huddle crew it is so cool back at you with another episode of the Huddle coming at

you every Tuesday 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining flooring forward progress in your flooring

careers today we got a special guest an episode that is really um near and dear

to all of our hearts uh the role of apprentice ships in flooring uh this used to be much more

prevalent in our industry back in the day we want to discuss how to um you

know maybe some methods of reigniting that in um you know the current

environment not not as many employee installers in our industry at the moment

and it's been that way for the last 15 20 years so we got Carlos with us from

nfap that's the best way nfap the best way nfap NF cap No Cap No

Cap so Carlos and with me as always is Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from preferred flooring out of Grand Rapids

Michigan yo yo I don't introduce myself very often but I'll go ahead and say I'm Paul Stewart and I'm with uh Patrick

mahes Carrera and Patrick Mahomes I'm trying to get him like perfectly in the

background so congratulations to my buddy Patrick for pulling another Super Bowl victory home to the Kansas City

Chiefs ah yeah so how's it going Carlos wonderful

I'm over here in Miami right now just just U landed this morning I'll be back in San Francisco tomorrow

night you're you're gonna be in two state two cities that we had to beat to

uh win the championship so sorry I'm going to be making these references the entire episode but we had to beat Miami

in the playoffs and we just beat San Francisco to win anybody's feelings

but that's great well I I can tell you I do wish that it would have been uh a

different uh Team going up against I I was really rooting on Detroit and um

I've got a lot of friends up where you guys are we got installers down here that are from up there in Detroit and I

was rooting for him I was rooting for him that was a great game I saw it it

was fun yeah s they came back and and beat the Lions I couldn't believe it I thought they they were losing but they

came back it was that third quarter yeah that whole second got yeah

we don't we don't talk about that anymore we just uh s we'll get it next

year we'll get iter we'll be back old news old news bro why you bringing up old

stuff well speaking of you know championships how how do we turn

installers into Champions and uh you know win them a championship from a

installation perspective like we we touted this industry we touted about how

beneficial um and rewarding it can be it's one of the things I love about it

uh not just you know from a financial standpoint uh can you do well in this

industry but there's just something about doing a a project and and standing

up and finishing a finishing a job you're the finishing touches to a lot of these uh homes and offices and hospitals

so it's something I've always gotten a lot of Pride out of when I was installing was the completion the completed product

so Carlos uh you guys at in nfap do um a

lot in this area a lot in the arena of apprenticeships uh it's a daunting task

I've talked to you several times I know it's you know not always the easiest um thing to to attack I mean how

I'm gonna open it up with a question straight to you how are you guys looking at it how does nfap and the states and H

how do people look at apprenticeships when we have such a heavy uh influence

of subcontractors which I love my Subs we got plenty there's if you want to go out and start your own installation

business you got my support I know you got these guys support but it does present a unique challenge to those

trying to work with apprenticeships does it not yeah um well it honestly there's

it's it's um it does not in the long run and and the reason why is because you

know when we're out here and we're promoting the floring industry and saying hey there's an opportunity for you to become a flooring installed or

you know we're not selling um a job we're actually selling the the opportunity of becoming your own

flooring contractor um so that's the way that we get these students into into you know

interest into our program and and coming into our industry um they go work for a flooring

contractor for about three to four years once they complete their apprenticeship hours then they get a certificate from

the Department of Labor uh oh

he'll be right back I think um I think what he's alluding to is the opportunity

to become a subcontractor but getting these uh new what I am I back you're

back did you get a up Carlos yeah man next time I won't use my phone for this

um so once they get their certificate from Department of Labor then they can transition and start their own flooring

company and you know be a 1099 so a lot of these companies that we work with

they have the vision of they have an apprenticeship program already within their company and they're already aiming

that these students that they take in are one day going to end up being subcontractors for their company once

they complete the apprenticeship program so what we're doing now is making sure that they learn the standard of the trade so by the time they already have

their own company they're actually selling quality work gotcha yeah so as I was saying when

you dropped off there for a second I think from we're kind of talking about two different perspectives on this yes

uh you you are talking about the opportunity to become your own boss and be a subcontractor eventually that um is

a very intriguing offer right it's it is a it is one of the industries you can go

out and Be Your Own Boss uh you can make a lot of uh money or you can balance

kind of have that uh freedom to balance your lifestyle but from my perspective that I'm talking about is the

complication it brings for your placement because there's so few companies particularly I mean you take a

huge swath of the company there's very there's there's a lot of companies that do not hire on even apprentices or or

installers at all I just um got back a few weeks back from a a tour down in

Dallas and I met with like you know

I think probably 12 or 13 different companies not one of them even had uh one employee installer so yeah

you know placement is what more of what I'm talking about um you know getting them with a flooring company if if

you're to do it on a large scale can be complicated I would think because a lot

of the outlets for installers who want to come into the industry the outlet is to go work for one of the subcontractors

or go work for a labor shop right I mean and so yeah how do you

guys you just make sure you're dealing with companies that that want that eventuality of them becoming a sub as

the overall goal yeah well you know the the contractors that we're working with now um they have in-house Crews so it's

already part of their business model so those those are the companies essentially that we work with to start off with for our students

I got a question for you so if um if the premise is to get them trained to get them out and get them out on

their own at what point is um at what point does someone say yes you are good

enough in this discipline to be out on your own in such a short amount of

time you think you think four years is a short amount of time depending well not for the maybe not for the trade or for

for the trade the the skill set maybe they're getting um I would say they're becoming at four

years um at least in my experience of of

hiring hundreds of installers uh I would say they're Prof becoming proficient at a particular

discipline true but getting out on their own yeah getting out on their own it

might be a little premature but I think also what we're talking about in and what we discuss a lot on this podcast is

the business Acumen that you need to really go Be Your Own Boss right there's

there there's that piece where either going to work with a subcontractor a

good one where you can learn some of that stuff uh or doing some business

courses or or some mentorship with you know guys like Jose or Daniel or myself

on what it's like and what you really need to pay atten attention to if you're a sub to not only be successful on your

installation but be successful as a business because you're a business at that point and this is Roy just made a

comment you know the main problem is how to run the business and not training the installer right because after four years

you can have some decent hand skills and not know anything at all about running a business yeah so so what we do is okay

so right now we work with Department of Labor on the side of getting these students into the program into

apprenticeship um there's another department we work with it's Department of Commerce and they have an agency

called minority development um minority business development agency they provide the training um and the resources to

basically set up a student on the business side so that's the thing is I

feel like after four years of you doing floor installation you're kind of going to know like and you're getting paid a

decent amount of of a salary working inh house you're kind of going to be like do I really want to start my own flooring

company because that you know when you're young you're ambitious you want to you know have your own business but when you start seeing what it takes to

run a company especially when you're working at a floor with a flooring uh contractor you see the other stuff that

you never would have thought of so I feel that some students might say you know what i' rather just um get promoted

within the company and and maybe into Department yeah hopefully so because

honestly there's a a pretty low percentage of floring installers that should end up being you know their own

boss I mean particularly that that young I guess not just what nfap is doing but

I'm I'm curious of your take on this after being in it not not so much just what you do which is interesting and

good and I'm glad that you uh brought that up but what's your what's your what's your guys's you know group

discussion here what what's what what are some sol solutions to properly

maintain some of the new uh applicants that companies like nfap or fcef or

these other entities are bringing into the industry to make sure that you know

the the education continues for the person and if they do want to go out on

their own what is um what is the mechanisms or or what should we be

thinking as an industry to make sure they're successful ultimately because you know having an installer come in do

a good job uh with his hands but failing as a business that that that may not be

the best uh you know end result either right so just yeah you know off the hit

not not anything uh that's necessarily nfap uh specific but what's your what's

your thoughts around you know that those kinds of things well man you know I tell you something starting a business from

zero is not easy um from experience I think uh it's it's not it's not easy so I I I

think someone has to be really resilient and have a drive and and to stick in

there and and actually want to to learn how to run a company and and find a way

how to succeed or how to Market yourself against the competition it's not easy but I know if you if you stay committed

and you work hard and you network in the long run and know you can build a fruitful company so it's not it's not

for everyone um it's not for everyone but for the ones who have that heart then yeah they can do it but if not they

can just have the skill set and work for a company that is always busy a commercial flooring company for sure is

most of the time is busy yeah what about you guys uh Daniel and Jose I mean Dave

Garden just chimed in and said you know uh you in increasing or continued

education be should be a standard for all installers I agree with that I think we should you know ever stop learning

it's not like you get to the end of the four years and you're good but education in in business as well right right so I

I think when we talk about apprenticeships um for the most part you you kind of relate it to the union

because it's Union strong right so when you talk about apprenticeships you're talking about going through that course

for the four years and then basically saying all right now you can do whatever but I mean they still train on a regular

basis as long as they're part of that Union so I think we we just need to get

to that point where um it's not necessarily frowned upon by

so many people like I already know what I'm doing I've been doing it for 20 years so I don't need training right and

we talk about this all the time but it has to be where I think that's where the

the benefit of actually having the the employee installers kind of like similar

to the Union right but a union doesn't necessarily have to employ them full-time right they can go from Union

shop to Union shop but having the employee installers kind of gives you or

at least them um like they will actually want to train

since I mean like for us we we pay the guys when they when they come in and train and it's just that's not the case

when you're on your own and that's why a lot of the guys that are you know 1099 are doing their own thing

it's like they they either have to go work today to make the amount of money

they need to or they're going to go to a training and lose a bunch of money and then be fall way behind so it's just

that I think that's the that's like the stigma but like pu hey what's up pu he

just chimes in says good morning everyone but it's uh three o'clock in

the afternoon he's still on uh he just woke Chief hangover yeah he just woke up from

the game uh but that that's the stigma but it's not true the most successful guys I

know that make the most money in the industry are the ones who are are dedicated to Education and Training them

getting training they they invest their time in the Education and Training and

that's how they view it they don't view it as spending money to go and losing money to go get trained they view it as

I'm going to invest this amount of time this amount of effort and money so that

I can you know increase my my performance increase my my standing in

the industry and you know command a bigger dollar and get better get get

better projects get more rewarding projects that pay better I mean that's

that's what I see that's the proof that's the data uh I think it's a farce

that you know somehow you you lose money by becoming more educated um if that was

the case there we wouldn't have you know any doctors or any surgeons like they go

do this stuff uh and then you get out of it and yes there's a sacrifice period

but you get out of it and you can you can command more money I mean that's

that's what I think I I see happening more than you know I I I agree with you

it's it's it's kind of like you know you go you take all these courses you take all these certifications you're getting

better at what you're doing you're becoming a professional and you you know you build a sense of pride of what you're doing it's you become a CRA it's

like a craft at the end of the day artisan and and when I've realized from the experience of doing this over the

past almost five years of you know doing the leg work and just seeing someone talk about apprenticeship like the other

day we had a a class in Austin and this individual who's been in the industry for quite some time but he just joined

the apprenticeship he was proud of to say like you know I'm in school again I'm an apprentice I'm

learning and just seeing how he felt of being a part of an apprenticeship

program and the pride that he was demonstrating it just showed that we're it's just a shift we're not just a

regular flooring installer putting floors in like there's Pride behind it it it's starting to become like a professional and you know that's the way

we promote it to the students is that's why we take them to the to the trade show like look this is our industry it's

big this is it's not just some small thing it's it's the students that we took they were blown away they had a

change of heart about our industry and so that's something that we want to keep portraying that being a flooring

installer is not like a low job it's it's something great and I think the Next Generation by the way thanks for

bringing them that was really really cool to see see you guys cruising around the trade show and joining us on the

podcast there that was that was neat yeah that that was pretty awesome I do want to apologize guys I have to take

off right now though so um I I don't want to all right man take care I'll tell you

guys what's going on later I don't want to bring down the mood got very good all right sir Kudos Daniel best luck I'm not

hey hey Daniel sorry about them lines man hey we'll get him next year we'll get him next year that's what we say

every year so um as we're continuing this

apprenticeship talk and uh I'm not sure what's going on but I hope Daniel everything's good with Daniel so we'll

we'll wish for the best there but um one of the things about apprenticeship to me is gaining you know

experience in not only what you're doing but how to operate projects uh we got a

podcast coming up about site conditions and how they can uh impact your

profitability you know learning how to properly set up projects even after

you've uh gotten through your apprenticeship um the the that's the

real benefit of being with a company or being with a you know an emplo being in an employee standpoint before you go out

and start your own thing so we we say this a lot on the podcast here is like take your time before you go out and

start your business work with a company really understand the best ways to set

up jobs and because that has a lot to do with your your uh your potential success

in the future um you know as far as the role that apprenticeships play I believe

that the if we can figure out and continue to hone in on creative ways to

deal in the digital world with apprenticeships and placements um you know that's going to

be a need here in the future the young the younger generation live on their devices and you know the the more that

we can understand meeting them where they're at and finding uh ways to connect them with uh work opportunities

and people and making sure that you know as a industry we're doing our very best

for the new incoming uh youth um and you guys do a

great job at in incap I mean you you're very uh I would say you could see it in

your eyes you're dedicated to the kids you're very happy with what you do um

what is the biggest challenges we we understand the role of apprenticeships now what's the biggest challenges how

can the industry help out in these uh you know in this apprenticeship kind of

approach man our our biggest challenge right now is placement that's it it's it's placement

like the students are there but to find placement for usar I hear you now it's it's just

placement at this current moment um we can find more contractors that are willing to you know become apprenti

sponsor and take our students that'd be great so why don't we go through real

quick what what does it take to place a student with nfap because we have uh

there's some solutions out there for placement I've talked to you about uh jumpstart which is a go careera product

that essentially puts the new students on a platform and then we connect them

to uh our our network of installers and if you're at least one hammer above

as a network installer you have access to jump start and then you can hire off a jump start jump start is not 100% live

yet but we're just finishing some stuff up that is the concept of jumpstart but

that doesn't work well with the way some of the states work and what you have to do so why don't you explain to us the

the the methods that you kind of you know have to go

through um well well one um you have to fill out an application to see you know

what what your company is offering you know the wage scales um the benefits you provide for

the employee because at the end of the day even the student has to make that decision if they want to go work at that specific company um so we present that

like the job offers to the to the students now for a company to become an apprenticeship sponsor all they have to do is sign an appendix D which is an

employe agreement and within that agreement it's it's just stating that you're going to follow the standard of

the apprenticeship guidelines which is what what are you going to train them on

um for example nwfa and ntca has these apprenticeship guidelines you're

supposed to follow and they have the books available they have the on online university they have to follow that for

the next three to four years and complete that and I mean it's it's not it's it's great to be honest with you

because you're basically training your Workforce according to the standard of the industry and it helps you build a

quality Workforce in addition to all that when you become anip sponsor um at a state St and a federal level there's

um tax credits at a county level and it when you hire our students uh we can

help sometimes it can be 100% salary reimbursement up to three to five months or or 50% depending on the county you're

in um another thing benefit is that the students they get tools up to 1,500 um we also um cover for example

they're going to do the work flooring specialist we cover that um nwfa certification cost if they going to be

um ntca tile Setter then we also cover the CTI certification cost so these

students that we bring to the table um they come with resources that you know help them succeed not only that on top

of all that we help these students transition from um jop core um you know

a lot of them will relocate to new cities that you know they don't have any family members or apartments or nothing

like that so we help them find a place um we help them get grants so they can get a down payment to a car or at least

pay one month of their of their rent to to give a little boost in life um so we help help them get stable within the

first 3 to six months once they transition out of Job Corp and start working with the local

contractor so that was gonna be one of my questions for you was uh the I don't

know how well you guys can hear me but my microphone and my I hear you I hear you hear you just fting but um that was

one of the questions I was gonna have for you too was when they're transitioning and they do want to you know basically travel and and go out of

state and maybe set root somewhere else I didn't I didn't know if there was any solid programs in place for

that yeah so so the way that it works is it doesn't matter where the student wants to go um as long as before they

even get there we we set them up with the local Workforce board to get elgible

once they're elgible then they they qualify for the local resources and along with your company as well you you

get um partner up with the work with the workforce board so it just have to do it in advance like it has to be planned out

um in due time because the government tends to work pretty slow um so you have to be on top of it um and and also as an

employer take that into consideration um that it takes time so we can do that ahead of time and and do

that smooth transition and it will work perfectly fine so it's a pretty big lift for say a

a subcontractor to qualify for the program with you uh to to then get

apprentices into their install company is that what

you're saying yeah you know I don't want to say

it's a big lift I mean I think we're doing it already it's just what it does is creates something formal for these

flooring companies that that are already busy if you're busy all the time and you want to build your Workforce I think

it's the perfect system to set in place yeah so Jorge ask who's doing

training at at nfap in San Marcos Texas uh currently we have someone that

used to work for the Union in Washington um he he retired he's he's

the instructor there he was a a flooring installer for about 30 years

cool yeah so like there's Dave Garden said you know I I pulled it up a minute

ago that the largest problem is the 1099 system um

to delve into that a bit I don't it's it's Subs paying their their employees

or the people that work for them on jobs as a 1099 and not hiring them as

employees and properly training them and getting them um you know uh in touch

with different opportunities to become better I think that's what he's referring to uh he's he may chime in and

correct me but you know uh Dave is uh used to own a large uh I think his son

runs it now but used to own a large uh labor shop so the labor shops ought to be different I if you're a head

installer you should be hiring employees or at least that's that that would be the best way to then you know help that

employee go uh you know further their education and get better um we've talked

about it here on the podcast before but I think you know

um it's not as prevalent as as I think it used to be and that's subs or

installers not wanting to train other installers because they're training them to take their jobs kind of thing I think

we know we all know that stigma it doesn't I know a lot of people that love to train uh a lot of installers that

love teaching the Next Generation Um do you run across that much Carlos in the

when you place a new uh Apprentice into a place where the feedback comes back

that he's not being well received or something to like or is that is that a far is that

a is that a old tale that just keeps coming up no actually

um uh from our experiences past three years what we realize is it depends on

the on the size of the company if it's a big company that has many in-house installers like you know the guy has a

lot of Vans and he sends sends them out to to complete his contracts like there

that it works perfectly fine with our students but when it's someone that just has doesn't even have a shop only has a

van like a subcontractor and it's I we sent students to go work with them and

it it just didn't work out for some particular reason um he didn't want to even take the time to even when we told

him to an apprentice they didn't want to train him at all I don't know what happened I'll chime in on that one right

there and I understand that that portion too because we were we were once stuck in that uh in that rut where we felt

that we didn't have the time to focus training on individuals right so it was

we have deadlines in the commercial in the commercial world we have deadlines and and we would start training and then we'd start running out of time and say

all right you know what I'm running out of time I have to have you go do this because I know you do this well um and then then the next project we'll try to

pick up and that that kind of uh that kind of derails the training and motivation a little bit both for the

employer and the employee uh because you know there's gaps in between but um I

think once we started doing more in-house and practice training um on our slower days and recognizing when it was

a good time to split the crew in half and have some guys come here in practice while the other guys are on a project um

we started doing that we started getting a little more ahead of the game for for us

anyway yeah and you guys have sent your employees to you know different trainings and and uh uh certifications

you know what I'm saying so yeah you see the value there I here at at my flooring

company um when I would say there's five or at least five if not six or seven of

our subs that used to be hourly employees here so you know we we don't

try to stop them uh we do try to have an exit interview uh with them sometimes it

does stop them and explain to them all of the requirements that are going to

you know be on their shoulders now to fulfill as a business owner and um I

think that's good a good thing for a company to do I don't want to stifle

entrepreneurship uh in many cases we ended up with one hell of a sub out of the deal and they they went on to uh

hire more people and you know more doers

and and do it the right way and and make make a great sub uh others have fallen

pretty hard and so I all I can do is continue to encourage people that if

you're going to be if you want to go out and be a subcontractor it's awesome but

please know what you're getting into and understand that this problem of hiring people it's one of the main things I see

on the Facebook pages all the time is like I can't find any good help I can't well there's resources out there nfap is

one of them but you have to be prepared you have to own a you have to treat your your installation company as a business

and then you can kind of check some of these boxes reach out to nfap reach out

to fcef start looking at ways reach out to go careera we'll get you to where you can have access to the uh jump start and

you can have access to you know young Talent or newer talent to the industry

anyway um but you got to run your business like a business and if you just go out you

get a van you get some tools and you start installing floors and you don't really treat your company like a

business uh like David said earlier he he kind of confirmed that the largest issue that he's talking about when he

said 1099 is the individual subcontractor misusing the system to avoid running a

business properly yeah that's a pretty good sum up of what I'm talking about here is uh you know you got to run it

like a business that's right and then I think uh Dwayne on there too it to answer his

question is kind of what you just alluded to is is run it like a business that's the only way to run that successful workroom is it doesn't matter

if your labor only full retail or retail and then you sub everything out you know you still have to understand the

business aspect of the industry business is business if it's it's got to be for-profit it's got to make money to

sustain itself regardless um your your people are your tools um their mindset

their health their education those are their tools you got to feed you got to feed into that right you gotta you got

to make sure that you're catering to those tools so that way they can get better they can get sharper in turn your

business will get better your business will get sharper um takes a it takes a while to

understand that you have to invest time and money into getting better and

getting everyone around you better um it's just it's hard at first when you don't feel like you're generating the

revenue um but you have to you so we're talking about when we're talking about

running it like a business we're talking about caring about your people we're talking about caring about uh your p&l

like actually make sure you're making money uh we're talking about caring about your equipment and we're talking

about you know controlling your expenses making sure that you're your profit

model or your Revenue model you know makes enough money to cover those things and pay you well and that your people

are one of your most important assets many times I think what what I'm reading in most of these you know here's the

problem kind of comments is it's when it subs hook up with someone else and they

split the the money or they hook up with someone and you're like you're going to get 10% of every job we do and I'm going

to pay you as a$ 1099 a sub you know subbing to another sub

subbing to another sub kind of scenario or 1099 1099 to 1099 that's where you

just get lost in the mix and that is a problem in our industry uh you know if

you're if you're a if you are a shop or you're a labor um you know whether some

people call them Brokers or what have you but if you if you own a labor shop

and you are working the the thing that separates you from uh everyone else is

how you treat your people and how you educate your people and how you pour into them to help them get better like

Jose was just talking about and well you know guys I want to

add something about that that whole 109 1099 thing um not too long ago I had a meeting with the company in in Dallas

Texas and he was in informing me that the IRS is starting to track down and stuff like that if a company that's

supposedly 1099 is receiving more than 80% of income from one company that

that's not even $199 and then the IRS is going to go after that company to get those taxes so that's something that's

in the right now that's a trickle up yeah that's what's happening right now in Texas so this guy's like he's like

hey I got to change my model and just do um W2s just to avoid that that wave

that's about to take out a lot of companies within our industry yeah they there's there's a lot

of different metrics that they're using uh one of them being you know uh control

one of them being um the capability for profit and

loss uh that's another metric that they you know can these sub lose money right

uh scheduling you know and that that falls falls under the control piece uh taxes

uh work comp those kinds of deals and and is the sub working for other people that's one of the reasons I'm so you

know Pro go Carrera the fact is is that all my installers that work for me are

also on the network doing work for other people and it's all right there on the platform and you can see that that uh

they don't just work for me uh they may work a lot of time for uh or I shouldn't

say for me but with me as a trade partner but they also get other work on

go Carrera and it's it's a they have to to maintain their own insurance they

have to maintain their w9s and pay their taxes and that stuff but it's really

important that we don't it's really important that we don't try to work the system like hire

good people try to pour into your people if you're a sub our hourly employees are benefited with health insurance and paid

by the hour on a W2 with a company van you know uh with free work gear and and

and and and equip and then our subs they have to they have to take care of all of their own stuff

if they're traveling they got to get their own hotel rooms uh you know those kinds of deals if our if our uh hourly

employees are traveling well what guess what they got their hotel already taken care of where it's at paid for done and

so you can run a a system where you have both employee installers and Subs but

you have to have clear definition between how you treat them and you can't can't treat a sub like an employee and I

think that's a lot of what like David and and and uh uh some of the other

comments are are referring to is the fact is is like dude you know R that's

the only way for us to increase the health of the industry and get these these new crew these new um uh

apprentices or new people coming into the to the industry to build them up and

make them better I I've said it for a long time ever since I sat into a in a

uh a uh seminar talking about the installation crisis and how big it was

and all the metrics around it I thought what a catastrophe to not only have that

shortage but if we fix and bring in the kind of numbers they're talking about how do we properly make sure that

they're placed with quality other Quality Companies and other quality installers to make sure that they

continue to get better because that's the fastest way to lose them I almost didn't end up in this industry

because I ended up with some jerk that was just a jerk to me as my my first uh

you know my first mechanic and um you know we got to change that attitude and

and and invite these guys in invite these new uh me men and women into our

industry and pour into them and try and help them get better so I I want to touch based on

another question Dwayne kind of finished it he just wanted to know he meant his question was more directed how do you

how does he get um or how does he start using the installers thatf nfap are are

providing um and I think it's just a matter he said it earlier and Dwayne must must not have been out but you just gotta fill out a form like a pre-qual

and give you some information and see where it goes from there and I don't think where's way located he's located here in wiah wiah

you know yeah so the first time the first time I was over there I say Hey where's wi at they're like What's

um but I do want to I do want to add just for clarification too just in case anybody's there's a QR code Dwayne uh

that that'll get you to to the place where you need to get in contact with

Carlos and uh hopefully that helps you out a little bit so so so some of the benefit and

this I'm going to kind of summarize it a little bit is uh nfap is providing

training for individuals to put them out there in the workforce um to introduce them to companies or to go on their own

um if you're one of the companies that are able to um I don't want to say adopt right but able to take on a few

employees you take them on you give them additional training after a few years then it's up to the individual to decide

whether they stay or become self-employed um and I guess it goes back to it's no different than somebody

getting hired off the streets except for you are giving them a head start for companies you're getting some some basic

training in some basic flooring knowledge and companies like myself wouldn't have to start from scratch on

the training portion of it um now yeah you I want to say something about that

yeah let me add on top of that um you know what we're really doing is we're vetting out the students ahead of time

um you know they they go through electrical trade they go through Plumbing they go through you know

painting all different type of Trades so by the time they get to us and and exit

our program you know you're getting someone who said hey you know I see this as a career path I see it as something I

can do you know for the rest of my life so you're getting someone who's not thinking about oh let me try it out and see if I like it no you're getting

someone who wants to grow in it and and do something and and become something great in the industry um and the other

thing is we look for individuals you know who have great character that we see that will be have a a bright future

um it's it takes a lot of our resources and time but we're doing that vetting out for the for the contract we're doing

that service for them because we want the contractors to be busy getting the next contract to keep these students

busy and making money well that's a good distinction I

mean bringing you know we all have experienced like the new guy um CFI did

a two-week course and uh we utilize that twoe

course to vet out some guys I mean if you're not going to stay at a twoe course then you're probably not going to make it here we ended up with one good

guy he's still employed with us today and um so anything that the industry

does in these regards to preet and make sure that they want to be in the flooring industry um I I think that's

you know a a huge Service uh so thank you for what you do Carlos we've already

believe it or not come up to the end of the podcast I want to once again thank you for uh joining us um everybody just

just want to say Jose's brother Daniel is fine he does have a puppy that's not

doing well and uh I don't mind saying it here at the he didn't want to bring down the mood but sounds like one of his

puppies a big dog guy and as well as Daniel is or Jose is um but his puppy's

not doing well so he had to had to go um so but thank you to to him for joining

um if you enjoy the the type of content that we bring here we encourage you to

you know come see us on Apple or Spotify you know we're on

YouTube um you know give us a thumbs up a thumbs down whatever you want to do

give us some some content um that you want us to talk about we got some really

good episodes coming up and with some really great sponsors and and really

great uh manufacturers and and just you know people trying to change the industry like yourself Carlos so thanks

again for joining us and uh again everybody thank you for the comments

really appreciate it and I appreciate all of uh you guys joining us and with

that I'm I'm gonna say break all right thanks than thanks for the congratulations to the Chiefs last thing

I gotta say it all right guys we'll see you guys next week again 3 pm Central uh

on Tuesdays thanks everyone right see you [Music]

Carlos

The Huddle - OVERTIME Passing the Baton

This bonus episode, also live from TISE 2024, features many key faces of the industry discussing training and where the industry can go from here.

Guests :
Dave Garden - Executive Director of Education - CFI
Jen Zurn - Project Manager - CFI
Jesus Garcia - CFI & NFIC
Jorge Orta - CFI & NFIC

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

hey what's up huddle crew we're here at uh TI 2024 we're at the surfaces theater

and we are going to have a pretty awesome panel I encourage you if you got any friends that aren't on watch it we

promised to bring Ty to you if you couldn't make it and we're here to do that so we're going to have a a panel

about passing on the Baton all about kind of training what the Next Generation looks like and what we're

going to do from here so Jose one of my Staples is here so Jose is going to tell

you about the uh panel and who's on it and what to expect here a little bit so that's uh he's putting a lot out

Me by trying to tell me to tell you what to expect because uh I think most of the people are in the dark except for who's on the panel and maybe the committee um

but on the panel today we have uh uh we have Jesus we have uh Mr Garden right here we have John NAA we have horad and

Jen zern so so we got some pretty uh familiar faces in the industry and uh I'm I'm just as curious as you to see

what they got to do and what they're going to say yeah I think it's an important topic man yeah I think um this

is just the beginning of passing it on to the next Generation so everyone stay tuned um let's see what uh what's in

store for for this event all right let's do

it yeah we already okay guys thanks for coming to our uh to our

I guess it's not a demonstration we're talking about Floor Covering it's why we're all here I

um I'm taking this this over we're taking this over for PJ Arthur and this

is his idea he is a guy that runs nfic and I just want to thank him for

the opportunity that we're we're all gifted here to be able to talk to you about what we enjoy doing and U I know I

I know I I speak on behalf of everybody on the stage well we do for a living we love

and we're your installers we absolutely love that and my my I'm going to ask the

the panel here why they got involved with CFI or nfic and where they see the training and their involvement in

training other people in the future my name is Dave Garden I am the executive director of education for

CFI it's is a it's a lot of fun I'll tell you I was

initially in in inspired to get involved with CFI because I wanted to know who Jim Walker was right I I wanted to know

who he was because he was such a uh a legendary figure in the installation

Community but he's not the reason I got involved with training I uh for that that goes to Jane

Walker John Namba you know uh Bob wpie and people like that that that inspired

me when I was coming to start to come to our conventions those are the guys that got me involved with

training they were gosh they were suppos they were so smart I just wanted I wanted to know

what they knew and then I wanted to be able to share that with other

people and that and that's a big step for all of us right because everybody on this panel here when we go and we help

other people when we get out when we get out and do trainings for other people let's face it we could probably

make more money in our daily lives and our in our business there's not a lot of money and training we do this because it

comes from our heart so what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask start with Jen down there Jen is there we start with

you all right so we're gonna start with Jen Jen what what was the reason that

you decided to what's the trigger said this I want to be a not not an installer

but a trainer so in my community in Wisconsin you know 10 15 years ago there was a

need that you could see a amongst

our is this better I'll yell at you like I'm yelling

at my kids um in my local Comm installation

Community I saw that there was a need and from that it was you know we we kind

of kept things from one another as installers because that was competition

you didn't share in information and I didn't understand that because the only way we were going to make progress as a

community was to help Elevate the training and education of our area

and the uh likeminded knowledge and forward

progress was CFI so when they came to our area I drank the

Kool-Aid it it was a a fresh of breath air it really was and the person that helped inspire me get to that because

again all the installers we were competition nobody wanted to share information nobody want to help one

another and it's been great watching this progress amongst installers

Nationwide come together and want to help each other so the one person that I would credit for helping that would be

my husband Jay zern of course he's not here right now so I can't pick on him and make him all like embarrassed but

that would be the the person because he's the one that also introduced me to CFI it was that mindset that said I want

to be a part of that I want to help make that difference there there is no glory in it I'm not I'm not looking at a

legacy of leaving behind if I can do anything to help one person one

installer in our community in any way with their business their skill set I

I've I've done something that is going to releve ripples in our industry

because that person is going to share that it's going to

grow thank you Jen that was really good I practiced it all

night so John John what what was your trigger we all got to know because you're like you're like the the Sensei

of uh of Floor Covering here you want to use mine here we

go we on check check all right so

my my exposure to training was due

to protecting my business I was installer I actually started in the carpet side of the

industry and uh we made a point of trying to follow

the industry and or manufacturer guidelines I was doing a glue down in a

bar one night we installed it we sealed our seams

we use the proper amount of adhesive the the uh seams didn't fall

apart a few weeks later but it started to fall apart about three inches behind where we had adhered put down our

carpet rep comes out takes a look at it sends an inspector comes out and look at it they said it's installation related

uh oh you do not realize what you just did so that's my that was a start of my

journey to find out better myself to prove it because I I told them guys

there's seam sealer there it didn't follow apart at the seam my seam I'm covered for that three inches your

product is delaminating and failing so I thought you know what how can I myself

protect my business and be be looked at as a professional and

that's when you know I started going to all these different certification all these different products and uh you once

you start going down that road you realize you know what it gives you your

self-esteem people start to give you credibility and you're able to build

upon that with your business you know if you know how to Market these things getting a certification or going to a

training isn't going to make you an overnight success it makes you no different than the day before you have a

piece of paper now that says you're certified all right it's what you do

with that certification that empowers you know we're using word empowering that's what empowers you to do better

all right how do I got into train I I went to the CFI certification and went to other certifications but CFI was that

Grassroots organization at that time and uh I went through that certification

process and you know they hey you got some really good hand schools would you like to be a trainer I said I don't know about that I'm I'm just an installer I

am not a speaker so the first few times oh my gosh we

were rookies my my good buddy Andre Southworth who passed away he's kind of the one that got me in into this and uh

we were both rookies up there you know how do you you don't get in front of just an audience just like this all of a sudden be be able to talk to talk and

you know you're talking your peers other installers do I really know more than they know you so it was you know it's a

challenge and yeah it's not about making money if you want to get into the

training side of things more power to you but do it as a passion you've got to love it because you're not going to make

a lot of money you'll get you know you'll get some money back but it's not

about making the money it's about giving back so what makes me keep

training I have seen even at this show I've met people that come up to me and say hey you don't remember me but in 200

2 you certified me like whoa you made a change in my life that's what we live

for all right it's not the money and we don't need you know we don't need all the glory it's not about that it's about

do you make a difference in someone's life and that's what kind of drives me

so that's my story John that's awesome because I think we can all share stories like that and it as a trainer you're

excuse me you're absolutely right when somebody comes up to you and says you know and and I've done this where I've

sat down and interviewed installers to come work for me the guy as soon as you show up to the to as soon as he walks in

the door as soon as he shows up he says I know you you train me and and that's there's no better feeling than that

right and and I got to tell you so my dad always told me that if you really want to grow as a person when you start

sharing a bit of yourself you start sharing what you do you get it back to 10f right and and it just it makes you

better it makes you a better person and so I think that uh everything you said there is every one of our trainers

probably has the same story it's very similar story and uh we're glad we're

we're most certainly glad for you because well he's he's like one of my mentors right

so so Asus you you became nfic and CFI

what inspired you to do that okay hi my name is Garcia and I come from Houston

Texas and uh this is my lyc story I'm going to be short I'm not going to be that Al but um um I'm going to be sure

uh this is my story why um come to CFI and nfic um because I've been doing this for

I'm installer and I've been do this for 23 years and uh my my thought was like I

know everything I know do carpet I know how to do CH I know a lot of a lot of

floting uh type of floting right and carpet from my in my mind I have the

that I know everything so the way that I come to CFI because I

know CFI from 2000 but been F from 2000 CFI and N nfic I know them but I never

want to get a certified because I was thinking that I know everything so the way that I come to CFI was we had

mistakes and I was having mistakes and in the jobs right so that's what I make

me come to CFI when I when I find CFI it like a young mom say it change my life

because they make me better to to do uh better jobs in my in my career because I

I take that like a career because nobody can do like what we do it's hard hard to

work keep working I know it's a hard work but when I get to CFI and uh I was

thinking that I know everything so when I get to CFI it was not true I find a lot of mistakes I was doing so bad and

now I'm doing it better and um now I'm now I'm be U I'm train be trainer so see

how fast I grow and uh it change it Chang everything uh not just for for me

customers any any companies that you work for so um that's that's that's the way that

I get to CFI to try fixing my my mistakes that I was doing it and uh

changed my life and U like I like I we're not want to talk about price so money it's everything hard

because so soon as uh they know soon as they put me a big road right there I'll

destroy that road quick so so it come

everything like hours it take a lot of sucer fres myself too uh everything so I

mean I'm I'm proud of CFI thanks we're glad to have yeah I got to tell you any

retailer out there would you like to have a guy like that working for you I mean seriously a guy that cares that

much that he knows after 20 years he decides he needs to get better man we

could all get a little of that or he uh for me honestly uh my motivation was

actually looking at all you guys being here all the time I would go to my local supply store and pick up magazines and I

would see the events that were happening and I always told so I want to be at that event I want to meet these guys

pick their brain uh because I felt that I wanted to produce a better quality installation

and uh the only way I could do that was by coming out and actually meeting a lot of people asking the right questions and

just trying to educate myself and and that way I can let my have my have my

client have a better quality installation uh so I had and and go out

there go to do the CFI trainings not all of us everything it's

always a learning experience I do thank you um I'm glad that I'm

here me um in my own business and to be a better individual

and give a better quality installation so um I do thank everybody that's helped

me out nfic and CFI and I believe that everybody should advance and keep

educating themselves because there's a lot to know out there and we don't know it all and like J Su said I had that big

head too at some point I thought hey I know everything and when you actually come down and meet these people you'll

be humbled at how much these individuals know more than you and uh I ask the

questions and they teach me what I what I want uh to know and and that's great

and it's not going to happen easily but you actually have to put yourself out there and if you don't put yourself out

there you're never going to know you're going to be stuck in the same spot always so uh you have to benefit

yourself from these educational uh uh trainings that different organizations

provide and if you don't do that you you you might stay stuck in the same spot but all you can do is try to

advance and and just try to gain more knowledge that's really what it's

about so so what's inspiring you to want to share that knowledge um I actually at

the moment there's uh certain people that in my area that want to learn so I

haven't had a class come through in a while so I I try to teach them personally uh so they can try to learn a

little bit and hopefully we can get a class coming through our area soon so we can get more individuals to to learn a

little bit more I I gotta tell you so for me your story is great because about elevating the level of everybody around

you right why can't everybody enjoy the same life I do I I was was so glad to

have three kids I was able to raise right I was able to raise them through an installation through installation

it's uh which is which is awesome let me tell you so again same thing if you had

that guy walk through your door of her job heck if I had a daughter I'd probably bring them

home F absolutely this is how we want to be represented right so at CFI when we

see a guy like that come through our doors we're like hey we see big things from you let's train you to be a trainer

let's train you to be a trainer because we really when you look here we have an empty chair right you know what the

empty chair is for the next trainer all right we're looking for people to

get involved with training because you know think about this we're looking for installers everywhere right we're all

we're all but how are we going to get those installers up to speed with what with what they're actually supposed to do well how we do that is by by training

them so we're looking for trainers I know I know I could tell you every training organization is looking for

that next trainer whether it be that whether it be CTF nwfa or us that's what we do we train installers

right and PJ's no different PJ is looking for that next guy that's got that hand skill that that uh has got the

ability to communicate right I I don't know anything else I can

say John's got something to add you know we wonder you know how how are we going

to get the Next Generation to uh recognize the flooring trade as a

profession and a career right everyone here is involved in installation of one

way or another and we all have different levels we all have uh you know as far as

qualifications and then you look at the Next Generation coming up it's where are

they going you know right now Nationwide it's like there's a shortage of people just to fill in you know everyday jobs

let alone our installation or the construction side of the industry so where are all the kids going right

I think in order for us as an industry to gain more installers for the

future we need to recognize that the installer is a key

component there are so many retailers out there and so this is not just on

retailers there are so many retailers out there that that are wanting to get the installer that has the lowest

rates that to me is not the way to run a business that is not any way to entice

someone from high school age coming up into the to the field how much let's see

how how much can I beat you up and and capitalize on beating you up not paying

you minimal amount and making me money and that's the wrong mentality the

mentality has to be how do I Elevate this high school student who's just

graduated how do I have them work into my company and create a career path for

them so now I have my installation team that's built in for me you know do you

bring them on as an employee do you bring him on as a contractor you know there's there's so many issues with the

contractor empoyee thing going on right now throughout the United States that

sometimes you know the thing I I look at it is if you want someone who's who's wants a career path give them an

opportunity to grow bring them on as an employee you may have to bring an employee on one employee build it from

there and then send that employee out with some of your contractors so they gain that experience but you have an

in-house person now that's you're able to mold and build and bring into your

company all right so so many times we expect the subcontractor do the training

the helper works for them for six months decide he or she is tired of working for that particular person they want to move

on they've only got six months of training and is it formal training it's not and that's why I think having the

ability to have these associations participate in training and trying to

build a better installer program out there is essential we're look I'm hey I

was up here I'm on my downside okay but what we have to offer what what do we

have to offer we have our knowledge and that's what we need to pass on to that next Generation if they want

to be involved in this we have to show them there is a career path there is a

future in this and you don't have to drive around a beat up truck every time you go out to your job sites because

you're getting beat up on pricing so that's what it's all about and that's what these associations are doing they're trying to bring installers

together to be more professional and run your business as a business and we need

help from the retail Community why because the retailers are our partners we cannot look at them as an adversarial

partner it's atic relationship yep exactly so all right yeah John correct

though we we're learning off of each other and some of the stuff we're learning sometimes I mean it might not

be correct so it's a domino effect it's going to trickle down to the to the rest are you going to do a good installation

or are you not you know and sometimes you need that extra push that education just sometimes one little thing you

learn today it's going to advance you uh in your in your job you know and right

so yeah it either the dominal are going to fall right or they're going to fall wrong but it's gonna trickle down

somewhere um that's what I believe Jen got something to add um honestly I I

think John and gor's covered it all it's the we we have to come together really

as a community because it is like I just said a symbiotic relationship the retailer can't um can't install the

product without the installer the installer needs the retailer to sell the product I I mean we can't keep looking

at this as um a race to the bottom because it's only it's going to hurt all

of us because eventually we're going to start losing even the installers that are already involved because they can't

survive they're going they're going to leave because there's nothing in it it's for them they're they're staking their

business every time they go out and do a job so we have to have the conversation

with all of us at the table and creating those clear Pathways like John said for

that next Generation because we can't continue to operate the way we've always done things and how we get the Next

Generation into this installation Community because it it you can't go I

got into it because I know somebody or um my buddy's working for somebody who knows somebody and it no we need to show

them that hey we're as good as electricians and plumbers HVAC and by the training organizations

being present we're helping Elevate that education and knowledge so we can we can

be considered for every high school student who's looking at a trade yep I want to do

flooring thank you Jen go right ahead what you

got question prob do you believe your personality affects what type of flooring you become profession at I'm

sorry you um you believe there's a correlation between the personality your energy level the mindset on what kind of

floor you can install what type of flooring we can install no sure you

think so yeah I don't I don't I think I think if you're a go-getter you're a go-getter man it's my personality

yeah does your per it's not necessarily your person well you know when you when you start playing into emotions it's

like it's it's uh that self-esteem okay that Pride you there's

a there's a fine line be there's a fine line between

arrogance and just being humble and knowing your stuff okay I know a lot of

arrogant people that think they know everything and they don't want to share anything they think they're you know

they're they're top of the mountain and then those are the type of people I really

don't gravitate to you you are hitting it humility is a big thing so

personality you know with the person you with your own person that a lot of the personality traits are your your

upbringing you know how were your parents did did they bring you up did they bring you up to be respectful all

right did they bring you up to be you know self-driven so and so yeah when that we

talk about personality does it drive you to a certain flooring I don't know if it's it's driving you to a certain flooring but it it drives you to become

better if you've got that person the personality traits built in I think it drives you and helps drive you to

whatever you desire to reach you know what area whether it's laminate hardwood

carpet you know I think it just depends on what you feel you know you want to go

for I I don't know if I'm just I'm one of those who wants to know

everything and continually learn so I started in carpet then I got into sand

and finish hardwood then I got into tile then I got into anything that went on the floor moisture Med anything that

went on the floor I was into it so I and whatever I got into I wanted to make

sure sure that I had the best knowledge and Hands-On that I could achieve for my

own sake all right does that build up my personality yeah in a way it does

because it it makes you feel it makes you feel proud all right but

uh and that can lead into your business philosophy people see that people will

see that personality come out they're going to see someone who's confident when this when the sales comes down okay

so many salespeople you have a client this

client is coming into your store to buy to purchase flooring

okay you have to build a relationship are you building a relationship are you

just selling a job if you're just selling a job yeah I'll do it for a buck less I'll do it for a dollar less a yard

just to beat you beat the competition down the road did you just build a relationship with that client no you

just sold a job all right so you did it for the the lowest price because you

said guaranteed lowest prices really we do not operate that way our

business philosophy just remember we're probably going to be one of the most expensive

contractors you work with but you know what we're busy we are busy so selling

cheap beating up the inst dollar prices you know beating up your salese with you

know the commissions and price that's not the way to go all right if you had that BS business mindset you're not

going to we're not going to empower the next generation of of young folks coming up we are we are gonna struggle just

finding decent installers you're gonna find those installers that you know are you showing up to my job today hey hey

hey hello hello Bo I haven't heard from my installer customer calls you hey is your installer coming over um yeah just

run a little bit behind you that's not the way to run a business if you're

running your business out way on discount pricing you know what you need to get out of the flooring

industry because we're here to make money I'm here to make money I don't know about some of you but I'm here to

make money and I want to keep my money so this so back to your personality thing it does play a factor I think yeah

we're we're not going to get rich off of working uh this job like we're not going to become millionaires tomorrow uh

installing carpet but you know it is going to help a little bit of that extra

money helps you have a better vehicle have helps you have better tools um that way you can do a a better job you know

something Jorge you got to Define what rich is all right for me rich is my family my kids you know my parents my

brother my sister that's rich right yeah Rich isn't Rich isn't but the coin I can

spend or the coin I got in the bank that's not rich guys so if we if we have the wrong mindset at times understanding

what what we're here for our purpose our purpose is in interact with each other

our purpose is not not singular it's not about me and what I like to tell our

trainers is as as soon as you become the most important person in that room you

become a terrible trainer because it's about the people in that room that you're that you get to share your gifts

with right and that's that's why we're here here and that's why everybody here everybody out here is here is because

we're we're meant we're meant to interact with each other that's that's I'm sorry but that's

why we're here you got something to add there Asus we're leaving you on the corner there no yes yes I want to send a

message to let's see if you catch this um I want to send a message to all the

retails all companies all contractors installers uh new installers uh helpers

get get coming H get certified this is why uh before I get certified I was

having so many troubles to get a job so many troubles because they not leave you they think that you want to do something

WR and some we do and they still doing up there so if you if you got company or

you are a contractor you got people working for you bring it them get certified because you know why it's

going to change it's going to change a lot you're going to keep your customers the h time you're going to do better and

this is the way that I there is benefit for me because every everywhere that I

go now I I just show my certification that I'm an f and CFI they don't ask

questions they just give me the job that quick imagine that it Chang so I'm not

gonna it's not going to be mandatory but uh I suggest all the retails send you

guys to get certif certified anywhere don't matter if you don't CFI nfic some

other places um it will change you it will change you this message for you guys uh all the all the all installers

they think they like me were like I was thinking before that I know everything but uh we seen people coming CFI or nfic

for 40 years being Starling and they say they they know everything I want you put in test if you really do know everything

when they come to CFI nfic they don't know anything they fail believe me they

fail right you're absolutely right any wonder why we asked him to be a

trainer John Jen I I I just wanted to add one more

thing to what John was saying um earlier about running your business and not doing it at discounts we see a lot of

people question when they're shopping around you know our competition the big

box stores what's what's their favorite what's their favorite

sale free installation how many electricians and plumbers have

advertising of free installation why are we doing this to

ourselves why are we letting it be

done good thank you guys very much for

visiting

hey

guys do you want it tort or whatever makes it easier to get so you got you

want let's do this way and then I'll catch turn around

John one more at least there you

go

okay yeah so I'm gonna have a quick interview with a couple of the guys uh and delve into a couple of key issues

that they brought up on stage I just want to drive the point home here so or hey can I talk to you just for a

quick second jump down here sir so hey Jorge thanks for being on the

panel dude that was awesome yes sir uh I got I'm just gonna hold this mic in front of you but one of the things that

you said up there that really kind of struck me was when you start talking about getting you know you you did it

because you wanted to be around people and get better and both you and Jose or

Jesus kind of men mentioned that like there was some time frame where you were a little reluctant to getting certified

and what we say on the Huddle all the time is there's only two ways to get better right to to become good at

anything is education and experience but you can't get experience faster you can't speed up

experience you can speed up education so I wanted you to like you know kind of encourage the younger crowd based on

that you can get better faster with education right correct yeah and uh experience comes with time it's not

going to just pop out of th a you know you have to motivate yourself you have to network you have to put yourself out

there uh that way you can gain that experience uh because the education's going to be there and you're not just

going to know it from today to tomorrow it's very important though because every

little bit of Education that you actually do get it does help you out it's going to push you to the next level

and it's self motivation as well you got to make sure that you actually go out there talk to these people and just pick

their brain you know and and and try to gain as much knowledge as you can so you could take that back with you yeah getting engaged being a part of the

community is a big part yes and like I like I'm saying here is you if you douse

your years of experience in with the education and the certification so maybe

you go get your R1 and then you go practice those skills and then you go get your R2 and then you practice those

skills by the time I mean you be in the industry for five years and be far ahead of say a Jesus who's been doing it wrong

for 20 years right correct correct yeah um you definitely need to put yourself out there gain that experience because

with time you're not even going to know when you just start being better you're just gonna all of a sudden it's just GNA happen and you're going to be a little

bit better than you were yesterday well I appreciate the comments because you're you're one of the the guys we look up to

on the Huddle I mean you do such beautiful work I love following you on Facebook so so give Jorge a follow or

you know let him let him know you appreciate his work on his page he he posts a lot of really cool stuff so thanks for coming thank you man I I love

the Huddle I check you guys out all the week and there's a lot of stuff that I don't know and I have to go back and

look at the videos because it it's very important every every topic that's on there it's going to help you and it

might not help everybody but there's a topic that's going to be in there out of the 80 something probably episodes you

have that's going to touch touch you personally and there's a lot of them out there love it man thanks for joining

appreciate it hey hey Seuss come join us man hey

thanks for being on the panel that was awesome I loved your uh you know your

perspective from you were a installer that very well respected doing a lot of

work and you really thought you knew everything this is one of those things we bring up on the Huddle a lot is guys

who have been doing it for 20 years but they've been doing it wrong for 20 years and we bring that up a lot and you just

you just spoke it up here can you tell us a little bit about like you you you

already said you kind of had this realization but how did it feel when you walked into the CER you know to the CFI

and you realized man I don't know at all and and I love your ploy to Young installers to get certified yeah oh yeah

um my my my thing that to get a CFI in uh that was the the problem that I had

uh in the in the well before that um I was having to many troubles and I was

thinking that I know everything but uh in realiz real life we don't we don't and um I so a couple of mistakes so when

uh I get to CFI because um that back in those days I have like two problems in

the carpet so that's what it make me to go CFI because I want to know and it is no one to let you know nobody show you

and I you ask question that that nobody knows so the only way to get in is in a CFI so from then it changed everything

it changed everything um changed my life for sure yeah there's a lot of guys out there that are just going through the

motion of installing but they really don't know what they don't know and uh

basically the first thing they didn't even know how to do um installing tax p

and even a how stretch they just don't use power stretches so there a lot thing there a lot install they don't do they

don't use it they they know they are it's power stretches to stretch it but they don't use it so there a there a

those are big mistakes yeah and a lot of times people uh when you're not certified you don't see the importance

this is one of the things I think a lot of guys may know some of the technique that you learn at CFI but they don't

understand the importance of power stretching a room they think it just going to take them more time but in a

year and a half when that customer's rug starts curl you know starts bubbling up and wrinkling up and all that because

they just knee kicked in the room you know they're already on to the next job so so you got to have pride in your work

too right yes yes that's definitely and that's the thing that when you come to CFI they um they remind you everything

again so when you say that you you know everything and we put on test or you

come to do certification and I you fail you you fail and what your 40 years doing Flo in carpet or your hard flam so

I don't mean nothing so when uh when you get a CFI or NFC we're talking about carpet right so um it changed change

everything and every day and I still I'm I'm not say that I know now everything

we keep learning yeah it sounds like CFI also and the certifications and the trainings also help you to re kind of

become humble that everybody was talking about I mean when you're untrained a lot of times you get this ego that you think

you're just the best but I I I was there as an installer it wasn't until I went and started getting certified in

different sheet vinals that was my gig uh that I learned that like man I've been doing this wrong so the the

sooner the younger guys need to get in there and learn the the industry standards earlier to not have to go

through the 20 years of doing it wrong right and believe me uh today uh today and yesterday I just learned two things

to do steps um amazing and new tools nobody has it still not out there and

one of the guys that has it it's a master too and um everyone want that too no why they have it yeah you learned a

little bit from a master too right yeah I learn another thing so when I get back to work I know what to do better now so

that's what I'm saying come to CFI I invite all all those all those installers this message for retails

contractors installers and helpers I mean I think I think the contractors and

the retails they that's the responsibility for them to send our

installers to get drive that yeah to to get a certified because believe me any any any store any customer get to your

to to your store or bu you something um you long as this you tell them um you

would you would let know that you you got certified uh installers they will not gone anywhere else they you will

keep them and they will bu you whatever you want and but you sure they they want to do um quality work because see this

now when you get a CFI not just I get a job so because I'm certified but now you

not just alone you come the whole yeah you got you got you got a group of

people behind you and and that's a good point that you make about the the companies and and them them re you know

encourage your subcontractors to go get certified like award work based off of

the fact of how good they are and how dedicated they are to getting certified and getting that training see this is

different um when you get certified everything come along uh together um

your prices gonna change too yeah you can make some more money we don't I don't want to talk about prices or

whatever but um it would change everything well it's important like I I installed I've made a good life for my

family and and Dave Garden kind of mentioned that up there so I want to tell you that you know you're an

inspiration my man keep it going keep inspiring the young guys and uh

hopefully we can drive more of our installation Community to embrace the the education and the training and the

certifications are out there this me this message message is for uh the

contractors and installers now this only for the contractors and installer now

you contractors you installer you have helpers this is uh one thing when I was

I was say helper they don't want to let you know they know of a CFI long time

they don't want to let you go why because it's going to change please guys don't get stuck that people man don't be

hate that people because if youo doing that we're going to head TRS that's a good point people the the ones

discouraging you from getting trained or or or improving yourself through

education are the ones who are trying to keep you from advancing because they're trying to you know yeah that's a great

point so sometimes I don't want to talk too much because um we gonna get like U healing HT you know for somebody else

let mean it's not the point but uh just get satified come on guys come guys come on thanks Jus I appreciate you man it's

great great hanging out with you thank you hey guys thanks for joining us you

know give us a a like subscribe follow let us know that you like the content if

not uh let us know that you don't let us know what we can improve that's what we're all about and that's why we're here man we're we're the Huddle so we're

gonna huddle up and and break out of here all right guys

The Huddle - OVERTIME Training Entities

In this exclusive bonus episode, the guys are live from TISE with some of the industry's favorite faces to talk all about the importance of training and what they do to promote and entice installers to get trained.

Guests :
Steve Abernathy - COO of the WFCA & Executive Director of CFI
Paul Pleshek - Executive Director of NAFCT
CJ Church - Executive Director of FCICA
Carlos Mongalo - Program Manager of NFCAP
Scot Banda - President of FloorCloud

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

all right what's up huddle crew welcome to to uh Ty

2024 thank you Ty for putting together a podcast booth for us this was just this

is just for the Huddle just kidding uh this is pretty awesome it's it's nice to

have a place to uh launch from on this one we're going to be talking with multiple training entities uh today

we're starting with Mr Steve abery who's with wfca and uh director I believe at

CFI is that correct or or uh you might correct my title that's pretty close

yeah I'm the chief operating officer at the wfca and executive director of CFI as

well so kind of carry two hats there in that sense well we thank you for your

service uh every single time we're on the podcast we are promoting training uh

we believe believe one of our core beliefs here is you know that a well- Tred installer is a

better installer a we all all three of us own flooring companies and we've uh

We've witnessed it uh first off secondly um you know when you talk about

the installer shortage and all this stuff there's really only one way you can shortcut um as you bring in new people

you can't you can't get better at anything without experience and education that's the that's the two

paths go hand in that's right you can't fast forward experience but you can fast

forward training right you can go get your R1 maybe you just got in it six

months later go go do your R1 go back out in the field work for a while do

your R2 so um you know we we're a big believer in training uh you know

obviously go Carrera is all about ingesting these trainings and producing Hammer rating that's easy to understand

for the uh people out there looking for labor all that being said gentlemen

welcome this is awesome so uh as always it's a pleasure Steve can you can you

give us a bit of a background on CFI kind of how we got here today and then

what what is cfi's Vision on bringing in new uh new people into the industry but

also like you know your core competencies being awesome at training so uh how does CFI continue that that

Legacy of being awesome at training great first of all let me let me thank you guys for your support of

installation training I mean it's it's a huge benefit to the industry for you to

keep carrying that torch and involving us thank you for inviting us to come on

the podcast of course it's a great honor for us to be onbody BL I mean it really is I mean we love

the opportunity we always relish the opportunity to get to talk about what our passion is and that is

you know an installation training with CFI wfca got involved in CFI about nine

years ago close to nine years ago in late late 2015 early 2016 and we

purchased CFI at the time and uh made it a division with wfca but wfca had been

involved in CFI for years and years before that big supporter I we were a huge supporter

and we had the opportunity to integrate that into wfca as a you know the division of wfca so we did that and you

know it's it's it's one of the things that we have been committed with not just of late but for years on end and we

continue that commitment to it because we believe that it's important for the industry and

so um you know we set out in that time frame to look at what what would CFI do

what would it do differently how would we you know manage the organization how would we look at the Strategic focus of

it and we really broke it out into a couple of different Tracks Of course CFI

at its core is a training organization but we also have a membership component of that which is for us it was just an

astonishing thing to see the Brotherhood of CFI when we first got exposed to I mean Sisterhood now as well I mean it's

amazing how many how many ladies we have coming into the organization so it it was just it was a different fi than you

know you you normally see as like a big family and we really love that we want

to try to keep that in the organization because I think that connection um to

each other and that networking opportunity between the members of the organization is a key part of their

experience with CFI and I think we want to we want to keep driving that so we are a membership organization and we are

very appreciative and excited to engage with our members um but at our core we are a training and

certification organization so we we we train but we also believe strongly in certification that certification is a

key component um because if you're going to train someone um you need the

credentials to go along with that those credentials establish the fact that you

have completed uh a course of study and that credential is the evidence to say

that I am proficient this and I think that's a very important thing for an installer to have so we believe not only

in training but we believe ultimately you should seek certification yeah absolutely credential so we do both of

those but there's two tracks of training that we do the first track is what sort

of the core of what CFI had done for years and that is the training and certification existing installers so

installers that have been in the field for some time we would do continuing education type of training we still do

much of L today whether that be you know floor prep whether that be um specific

you know skill sets by you know for carpet or whatever it may be um you know

a heat welding class for Brazilian you know there's there's there's specific skill sets that continue to build that

maybe didn't have to start with but you know then we also do certification

courses where we do a a certification training combination we getting some

training and they're testing for their certification and of course that testing is a is a twofold test it's a written

test for your knowledge but also a skills that test hands test you got show you

got you gotta demonstrate that you got to show what you can do uh before you get those credentials those credentials

have to have integrity about them which means you got to test you got to hold a standard by which that you issue those

so we have that track which is the continuing education leading to

certification of course to get certification we have a minimum two-year requirement to get your R1 or C1 carget

for example um and so you have to have that experience in the field typically

to be able to sit for that certification test and go through that training however we began another track which is

really um sort of trying to address the longer term need of the issue we have in

the forur the labor shortage right labor shortage I love what you guys doing here with these uh these introductory bring

them in shortterm uh courses my flooring companies had a few people go through

the two week course y I mean those kinds of things I think that's where you're leading right yes that's exactly right

and what we did is you know we started that track of Education which is designed for very very entry level no

experience necessary know you can come right out of high school and goiv programs and of course we partnered with

uh F CF wfca was instrumental in setting up fcef which is the full covering

Education Foundation which is having to fund that education yeah J yeah they're great yeah they're great

so we we partnered with them and and helped create that organization and U so

that we could have a means by which we could fund you know that education for

them because it it is an impediment you know for education education is not cheap it's not free uh somebody has to

pay for it yeah that sense of the way and this was a way for the industry to get involved in that c IFI was right

there at the very beginning of it but we we set up those courses we have we have

a now we have morphed into several different IND level courses to bring kids in either right out of high school

or maybe if they want to change careers they can get in there and learn it everything from a one week introductory

class to a two week class um all the way up to we do a five-week course which

takes them from from you know very very basic skills that might be for a helper

all the way to the point of installing glory and they can reach certification if they get 200 hours of Education over

five weeks um that's quite a bit of that's quite a bit of class that's a big training just just to

clarify uh that five-week course it doesn't mean you're going to come out you know blowing and going yeah trying

to trying to kill a allall job or but I think the kind of standard is you could go install a a hallway and two rooms off

of it very efficiently or something like that kick

still Ai No that's wonderful but just to clarify yeah they are involved in five

weeks of nothing but hands on paperwork education like I think we're gonna have a couple of our guys have been working

for a little bit they do that because the time time it saves us y do like the

way you're going the the path that this is all taken when you have this really core offering and now you're bringing in

some more introductory courses because if we're going to attack this thing uh we got to have as many entry points into

the industry as possible you gota you got you got to minimize the barriers to in so you got to take away the maybe the

cons the restraints or the the things that might impede them from from getting

involved so if they can't take a five week course they could take a one week course or two we course and and then

that credits toward their five weeks of experience that they want to do that or five weeks of they five week

time right now is a good time because you talk about installers and we've been fighting for years to up

the installer pay right so the money is a huge deal in in training and I think

um right now is is good to talk about the fcef and what they're doing right now with the 100 and

yeah so there is a promotion running right now with the full covering Education Foundation so that um for a

100 days we were going to scholarship 100 the first 100 students to apply and

get approved for scholarship uh in this period of time we're in right now it runs till about the 9th of March believe

that and so they would be able to get 100% which is it's normally 50% so

during that promotion they can get 100% coverage on the cost of the course as

long as it's $2,500 or more which is their limit um so we structured a series

of one and twoe courses that would dipped into that to be able to allow the students to come in and get 100% scholar

so that's awesome that's awesome that you guys did that because you know like I said the cost is huge when you're

talking about installers and especially when their their entry level when they

may be coming right out of high school and not have those funds that's right so it's it's it's a good program a great

program we're very excited about that we have uh I can't remember on top my head how many we've already had to go through

that but we are we are um continuing to add students to that continue to add

locations to that but the one and twoe classes are are a little bit more bite-sized for them and they can get

started I will tell you this in two weeks time for sure we can create a

pretty a pretty good helper in that time frame that has I mean you think about it I me

that's in two weeks time you're getting 80 hours of I canest in two week you can

get in two weeks time you can get to the helper level much much higher level probably a Year's worth of experience or

more for a helper in two weeks if they're intensely being trained for that two weeks they learn the trade they

learn the tools they learn some of the techniques they learn you know the terminology all of those things and they

get the safety side out it you get those first two weeks out there now you've got a helper that you can place in the field

and they can start getting experience as you said you can you can accelerate the education can't accelerate the

experience that's right they still got to get that experience but it's a good start um for

those yeah for all the companies out there look uh here's the deal I like the two-e course because it gives us

something uh to get a a real feel for so when we had uh several guys through one

of the twoe courses guys from completely different Industries and we set up this

uh program at the flooring company I own uh where we would pay for their two

weeks of being there their salary or their their wages for those two weeks as long as they completed the course and

was there all every day and then um that would be written as a loan to them if they stayed at the company for uh six

months then the loans were given in six months and we got two of them out of that deal but great but what really uh

uh the reason I like the two week the reason I mentioned that is at two weeks I was able to talk to the instructor a

little bit and and and garnered like where they one week seemed a little

tight they were they were like he seems pretty good but you know that second week I was able to get real good

feedback that's like yeah this guy's actually you know you definitely want to hire him and keep him on so you get two

weeks seems to be that freaking sweet spot for these entries it is and and you know you think about it in one week's

time you probably figure out whether this is for me or not in the first week

you know what I mean yeah which is why the third guy uh start off in week two the second week you know you figure

that out and you really start to get serious about the trade and you get serious about hey this could be a future

and it can be a future it's a phenomenal future as you guys know I mean where we

all started got started and the work is there there the career is there the

career path is there and I think that's one of the things we've been challenged with is communicating that career path

what is it you come in and you know you're not going to be on your news forever I mean look what you guys are doing yeah well even if you um you know

I I enjoy getting back down there every now and again way easier I always say that it's way easier there there's a lot

of benefits to in to the mindset that you got to be in the office and doing you know business stuff uh I I love the

just engagement into the product and stuff when I when I get the chance to install you know earlier when the panel

was on on RTI stage Jen said something uh you know about the free installation

that a lot of the um you know big boxes or push um I I don't know what can be

done on in the industry level these are private or publicly heal companies have their own own methods of sales but to

the you know if you're out there and you are thinking about getting you know flooring for your house I promise you

those guys are not working for free no so it's a gimmick quit falling for

it well you know I know that that each retailer you know makes decisions on how they how they go to market how they

price things and things like that but it does somewhat um diminish or minimize

the value of installation in the sales you know in the whole sales process the people do yeah and truth of the matter

is the most important thing is the installation yeah I mean sure you got to

have great product don't don't but great product is nothing it's in a box yeah

the experience of this is in my house that's on my floor that's the installed well I've heard it said you know a great

product installed by a bad installer or having a bad install you know that's

horrific but a a inferior product installed by a great installer and you still end up with a good floor like

that's how important installation is yeah so we're we're trying to get that message out and um you know 20 I'll just

mention this 2023 for us was a phenomenal year we had a record year in

2023 with 2023 with CFI we had a our our

membership growth was staggering attendance was up at the last our attendance and and just the whole Buzz

of convention was phenomal that was great this is one of the best conventions we've had in that day uh

message that I got um but the most important is training and we we grew

training last year huge way and you know we're coming off of that momentum in 23

and we're going to be pushing hard for 24 we are amping up our schedule of training um and the thing about it we

talking about twoe courses the twoe courses the five we courses the onee courses the certifications we bring to

the mark in other words we come to where the students are so we we we really want

to partner with retailers and dealers distributors in those marketplaces to

establish kind I have a I have a question on that right and for for any of the retail stores or any of the companies that are interested in hosting

one of these trainings whether it's the two we or the five we are are these uh

are these classes that would be kind of tailored to what they're looking for as far as uh installation needs commercial

residential or is it going to be kind of a a cookie cutter template and and maybe some room for adjustment so to customize

it we we certainly want to meet the need for the partner that we're that's hosting us if we are partnering with a

retailer they have a specific need we will we will bring that need to them um

we have a catalog quite extensive catalog of all kinds of training from every product category to residential

land commercial at all levels up and down the experience side out it so we

can we can we have something that would fit just about every need out there if there's something specific that they

want training on um that's not a problem we've got a lot of high but you do have

to have a systematized I mean you you got to have a standardized curriculum there is a stand you got to have that

stuff and then you can maybe have some add-ons or whatever we can bring this into it supplement it and we can

absolutely do that because you know we got we've got a network of trainers that are second produ just they're the best

in the business and um very proud of you very thankful for their help well as we're as we're as

we're nearing our time here I want to give you a chance to like tell us new guys watching H how do we get how

does a new guy and maybe like the guys I sent to the twoe course they weren't out

of high school but they were in a whole different trade so how do we get involved what's the lowest barrier of

entry for me to get hey I want to be imploring what's my next step so so the

the first step would be to go to to our website so we keep everything on the website all of our schedules are out

there information about the classes our cataloges are out there so if I'm an entry level installer looking to get

into the TR I would uh first go to our website CFI install. org and um at that

website you'll see a schedule of our events descriptions of all those courses you would want to look for the one or

two week one two or five week entry level courses and we host those as I say all around the country at various times

and sign up for one of those that'll get you started that'll get you into the trade and you just go beyond that you

know once you get in the door um I will say this we also have generally no problems placing people into jobs I mean

this is this is not hard to get a job in this industry right now yeah if you can get that education it's sort of you're

to kick it into the door for you know to differentiate you from somebody just walking off the street that has no

education whatsoever you go in and say hey I've been through this course so that ENT ofev a course you'll find them on our website as I said we host them in

various places it's like the appetizer I mean figure figure out if you want to be in the business you know start off with

that one two five we course Absolut you know wet your whistle and figure out if

flooring's for you because we're not acting like every single person that wants to be in the trades is going to

find floring a pilling but I loved it right right right loved it you loved it

I mean we're out there we just got to get them connected get that appetizer in you and then you know get place with the

company and and continue your education it's remarkable how many kids coming out of high school don't realize this is a

career opportunity I just don't realize it's there but if we can educate them

and that's what FCF is trying to do is trying to educate them about the opportunities in floring and uh show if

we can show them um you know how how good a career this can be uh it's a

professional career yeah and if they approach it professionally and that includes education and leave the limited

mindset away I'm going to say something here just super quick yeah you know the value if you take the all the square

footage sold flooring seems small because we're all just in this group together love each other whatever right

there's 40 billion ion dollar of Labor value done every year that's right

that's right 40 billion dollars of floring Labor value every single year so

the opportunity is there and if you're wanting to get involved in a trade where you really want to show your hand skills

and you enjoy like stepping back and seeing that finished product that was my reward I know we talked about yo there's

so much satisfaction in that uh I I challenge anybody to find a trade that

that requires more hand skills um this is the place for you so go to CFI

installers dog and I'm sure we po we popped up that on our on our live stream

here you could also give us a call too yeah or just give a call pick up the old phone we'll talk to you all about it and

tell you where you can get from what you can come into this career yeah let's get going guys uh again CI

installers Steve thanks for joining us totient our technical we got the tech

figured out now it's my fault all right thanks a lot

Steve Mr we got next I think we got Mr Paul pek stepping

up to the plate Mr Houdini himself one minute the

hello yeah you don't get to say any dirty jokes Paul we're live the entire process here so I hope run

delay you know what he does he probably has the best voice for this I four of us

that Wisconsin accent is that what it is understand well remind everybody eat the

mic and let's um let's get going Paul welcome uh I I think that you've uh been

seen the Huddle before have you been on yet have we had you on yet looking forward to it I enjoy talking to you guys nice meeting your mom last night by

the way was here a little while ago she's probably driving around she driving around Amigo learn what a CH was well welcome

chka CH all right well welcome to the Huddle

man um today's episode is all about training like if you have

uh not been on the Huddle but if you watch the Huddle at all this is is a

staple of us we believe in training we believe in uh the fact is is that we

know that uncles train nephews to us that doesn't eliminate the need for

standardized uh training and um meeting the industry standard when it comes to

that so welcome and thank you for coming I want to get your feedback on what we were talking about a

little bit earlier about bringing the new guys in and what uh the NF ncts

approach is to uh you know given the lowest barrier of Entry uh for these new

guys who and and GS looking to get into this industry yeah what we've really

approached the industry as that in order to have a successful installation you really have to start with some bottom

line is that if you don't have that perfect face to start with you're going

to have excellent hand skills you're be an excellent installer but at the end of the day likely go to that successful

installations pretty so we started with that our education overall is very incremental so on the resilient side for

example you have to come in and take the subcore course in order to go and take the LBT course a modular resilient

course um then you can move on to the seat good scores and well flash cold and

work your way through that industry on that side of it incrementally so you can grow like we talked about everybody on

career path where do you go when you get into this industry I think that really what we tried to focus on with most of

our efforts of bringing people into the industry is to make education an

expectation right I think when you look at installation if the perception of it

is that it's just a labor job it's you know in the category with uh Roofing and

drywall and painting then what's the what's your career path with that in my

opinion it's absolutely not it's a skill trade you're working with tens of thousands of dollars worth the material if you make a mistake it's going to cost

you a lot of money don't do it right and on top of that you're a Craftsman right yeah you put that Bing in and put that

Bing well it takes skill to do it prop absolutely and a lot of knowledge too

right like there a that's a discredit uh to the fling industry is that we have to

be scientists as well we have to understand and this is probably geared more towards commercial we have to understand the science behind the lot

and like you said the right start with a strong Foundation that's that's that's

everything that's yeah you don't build a house on a strong Foundation that's going to fall over right that's kind of

what the NCT is is looking at you gota you got to start at that base and work up and looking at the subfloor it's

where everyone has to start yeah and I remember when when the class became public and it came out and we had a

conversation we were like we started totally backwards we started on the top and working our way down and just like

man but this you know the the the pre it being required as a prequisite to the

the resilient class like there's like well Mak sense resilience about the most uh you know the most uh let me say the

least tolerant or most temperamental when it comes to uh subfloor uh you know discrepancies and issues so absolutely

and we we've also tried to bring in some more uh specialized areas within the industry uh some people know as as well

know it's here but we very very shortly we'll have the moisture mitigation certification so for concrete sorters

when you got to ad tested they failed but you do not there are so many options out there and there's so many ways to

address that um you put together a class that's going to teach how to identify the best process for any given failure

and for the for covering you're putting on but there's a difference between you know what you're going to do underneath

a m versus carp for example yeah so that next certification that be shortly

that'll be delivered by our education Partners like our and yeah let's walk

through that a little bit tell us about your approach to uh the education and how you guys uh go about your trainings

and certifications and uh curriculum building I mean what's your what's your

what's the nct's approach with that so one of the things that we identified early on and we' we've known growing in

the industry with co-founder uh I'm a co-founder with uh sunic we got together we

work an educational business doing training and we decided to turn it into an

association so we co-founded the nfct as National Association for governings but

what we identified in all of our work you know between the two of us we worked with and served on boards for committees

for seven or eight different industry Association and we worked with a lot of Manufacturers we've seen how much that

manufacturer training was truly technical in nature with the sales aspect right it wasn't a sales training

with a little bit of technical these were classes that we were going to that were excellent but at the end of the day you couldn't get any sort of credential

for you couldn't get any sort of uh thing you put on your business card or on your website that show that you knew

how to work with a for covering or sub so we went to

uh God forgive me if I forget any of them but we went to a pay RX donuts lree

andle and I logic was we brought them all together

and we put together the sub so now as our educational Partners now all of those companies can go teach the exact

same program across the board so it's all standardized when they give that program but we do also give them the

room to be able to say okay well we're talking about self lers well here's yeah

well that makes sense yeah that makes sense give them the ability to do a product um uh I won't

say demonstration but a product uh placement while they're doing the education right and you guys are

bringing in a lot of Manufacturers and I think that's one of the things that people look at is why would I go get

certified over here and pay this money when this certain manufacturer has a training that I can go do and sometimes

they are free right I mean most manufacturers offer the free training but when you bring

in when you bring in a handful of Manufacturers and it's recognized by all of them because you know a sheet vinyl

for instance can be translated through different manufacturers you know the

adhesive is different the notch is different but the installation method is the same and to put something together like that that is recognized by many

manufacturers is pretty awesome I think yeah it's a unique approach and um the

more the merrier absolutely right right and and these are um Niche trainings

like I say Niche I mean we're talking sheet vinyl if you're in healthcare it's like the product but what I'm getting at

is uh generalized training is your subfloor and then you build upon that

you want your modular uh resilient training boom you want to do now do you

require that before you do the sheet Goods okay you have to have that cell phone for everything no no no meant do

you have to do the modular resilient training to do sheet Goods no it's

probably best just FY but I'm just curious there's levels to the these

definitely levels to it one would make the other one easier if you had some basic knowledge and then graduating to

the next difficulty you have you do have to be experiencing the industry and take she not going to walk in as a as a new

uh so if you've had to have some time working with it U we recommend it but

more important than go with the she food's work is that you got Sol experience understand what the tools are

you know what you're doing you can ask yeah well we know you got a great

trainer well so

um hey I'll give you a shout out sunny I mean Paul

Paul no I'm just kidding um so what's the easiest way for like people to get

involved if if if I'm brand new to the industry I don't have to be high

schooler but I'm I'm in a different industry and I'm looking up trainings in flooring or flooring career uh how does

the NCT come into play to kind of yank those uh opportunities out of the market

so if somebody's looking into flooring as a business like I said I think that one of the biggest things that we can do

to draw people in is to really at the image with perception yeah

perception what I think we're working really hard on that with in an effort to try to reach people I think we've got

more modern approach to it for our sore post for example that's 6 hour worth of online training person you know so we're

trying to make it so that I grew up there wasn't anything such thing as online training but I

think everybody that comes into an industry has an expectation that that's I also think that if an industry

looks Antiquated that is kind of a turn off people that are looking for a new indry

to come into so they're looking forting Cutting Edge devices looking for

technology work on their phone go Carrera um you know yeah trying to look

the this generation if we're talking about the youth they have literally they're the first generation I believe

that they were born with the phone in their hands with the phone with internet

access with like highspeed internet access on your computer in your pocket

yes so it only makes sense that you have to have a modern approach to the way you

reach out to them way you train so I like that absolutely um we we're really

working hard to make sure that uh we're accessible in every way shap we try to

make sure that our class are affordable we pric on that s for course $100 100

bucks and it's it's a great course we've talked about it plenty of times $100 to

give yourself a great Foundation a great Stu that's worth it if you if you're just uh uh thinking about doing your

kitchen by yourself I mean yeah that's awesome so yeah we approach with that

we're also trying to give people we're doing yeah let's go that's our that's

our next topic uh but we're trying to pull people in we're trying to have portable education people together and network

and work together you know there's so many excellent organizations uh we're we're working on pursuing the

conversation that was started at FCI FCA FC CFI there's a lot of acronyms in

this business you guys so sorry it's a little confusing and uh Wagner meter is commenting on on the post too to to get

over here to the summit so we appreciate that yeah well Jason could just come and step

all yeah get to the summit so tell us a little bit about the summit the summit's uh you know more training installer

focused um give us a little bit about how that came to be and uh what what

what can we expect out of the summit because we're going to be there one of the things I love right now going on in

the industry there's a lot of areas where everybody's trying to cooperate brought up FCA and

CFI they brought that up right away um they just had their convention together

last year uh we're working with um Robert Bon as well as unite so we're

joining together to put together the something and so we each put together a day of Education we're going to have a

half a day of a trade show uh it's our first one so you know hey gotta start somewhere gotta start

somewhere uh we actually already have a DAT plan same for next year okay so I W

another announce there you go get um but yeah we're got uh so I've got

the list so I don't forget anybody this time but we've got presentations we've got concrete overview mixed designs with

Team craft from more about concrete than I've ever

known uh we've got Seth bck talking about what cus concrete slab back

to that for guardex right y y uh we got Lee Phillips I think one of he's from uh

professional testing know an adult presentation right now with so much uh

VY product that's out there there's not really you know even through inspections

if you go and you have a piece of material and can't find any installation or site disses with it doesn't always

necessarily be in the product B still have testing so I think we'll have them talking a lot about what kind of test

you can do on VI within so are these seminars will these

be like uh seminar kind of classroom settings classroom okay y uh son pal

Hampton talk about estm we got uh Scott bander talking about for cloud and

Robert Bon talking about

seaming awesome so yeah it's going to be uh uh subate subrate flooring failures

with blor that's going to be a new angle if yeah

awesome wealth of information and uh out free to talk about things that are

sometimes taboo to talk about the industry so yeah that's what we're all about amen I get lose report

man sounds like a Fountain of Knowledge a lot a lot of conversation

come join in on that conversation the more voices we can get you know the the better and that's what this podcast is

built on it's the the voice of the installer you know we're not going to be quiet anymore let's uh let's kind of

disrupt the industry and ask these hard questions especially when the manufacturers are going to be there let's let's see what they have to say

yeah let's do it so it's going to be in in Dalton correct February 22nd and 23rd

well we look forward to that Paul and thanks for for coming on with us today thank you all for having me awesome

thanks Paul

all right out with the second Paul and with CJ hi hi CJ how's it

going it's going fantastic thanks for joining us today thanks thanks for having me so CJ is with the FCI and

we'll let you tell us what that means the floor covering installation

contract Association is what it stands for uh and our tagline is um the foreign

contractors so yeah so uh heavy um focus on commercial floor covering

contractors and how they can improve their business and and and um you know

be so more successful in the marketplace yep um how do you guys look at installation training and the the things

going on how how do you guys get involved with that um so we obviously

we're doing a lot of Industry Partnerships and supporting installation training we've um last year last fall we

did our first joint convention with CFI um and we're doing it again this year was a lot of weren't there make sure you

come this year uh it's going to be starting October 1st uh back at the roseen jingle Creek in Orlando great

place it is yeah really hot but in October it's better yeah it

is um and yeah so we're going to be doing it again this year um that's kind of a big change we made supporting

installation training yeah well I knew the answer obviously because I was at FC

and CFI but uh you guys teaming up with CFI

um to me that all that can do is improve your current members and their

businesses we all rely on labor to to you know get our our products down we're

really good at selling stuff and we're really really good at like talking to designers and and scheduling stuff with

General Contractors but we are all limited by what we can get installed in

a professional manner so I'd love that the FC teamed up with CFI and did that

joint convention it was meant to be it was it was so fun it was and kind of like what Paul was getting at earlier

right you're looking at the evolution of a career and how an installer can have their career you know the next step what

is the next step and I think um the FCI is Paramount in that especially with the SIM program um I went through it he went

through it Paul's about to go through it at some point I promise great I'll sign you up but yeah I I think you know we

talk about that that career Evolution and I think that's where CFI or seica

comes in with CFI it's you know you start out as an installer and you have to see the progression of a career and I

think that's where you guys come in yeah definitely and just a little plug for for that is that is actually where where

Paul and I met so this relationship and this podcast actually came about because of well I think technically we met here

at ties but that's where you guys kind of connected yeah yeah FC yeah yeah so

fcica uh has a midyear convention and so

that will the real there be just an fcic convention this year and and the joint

convention or is it just yeah so we're going to do um we're flapping our normal

time periers for our convention so typically fci's convention is in March and then the midyear meeting which is um

similar format with like education and product demos but not a trade show and with a plant tour instead um it's

usually in the fall so we're kind we're flapping that now so this year we have our March we're calling it our spring

midyear meeting and then next year maybe we'll drop the mid year it's not really yeah Midway for the year um so that's in

Dalton and so that will be we have um some great education sessions lined up some product demos and then we'll be

touring um a shot inw while we're there gotcha what's it uh what do

you what do you think about all of the um talks did you happen to pick up or or

um uh catch the uh panel earlier that was on stage no I okay it was really

good I you know the the whole training thing because here on the Huddle I mean we we talk

about it if you've caught any of our episodes we talk about it constantly uh I'm a floor covering contractor I own a

flooring company as you know back in witto we're a member of FC we've got guys that we've sent

through uh CFI trainings and even had some Sim guys go through uh for our

managers it's all education but the real challenge that

seems to be you know being cried from the mouth mountains is not just we've

heard installation shortage forever but it seems like stuff is happening and

things are starting to actually take hold uh Steve abery earlier was talking

about how 2023 was a Paramount year for them they they trained more people they got more

members what what is fci's role

in not just teaming up with CFI but how I I know some of the answers

but how do you guys you guys encourage your your your uh members to H trained

guys and and and if you have in-house employee installers send them to training and things like that do you

have education sessions around or planned for your flooring

contractors to like really engage because I think that's the rally cry is like the flooring contractors and the

retailers need to get engaged with these training entities to start supporting the fcef and these other uh efforts out

there and send your people to the training that's what helps with the training industry right so what's your

guys' approach you got any plans for the mid year did I say that right actually one of our education

sessions at the mid year meeting is recruiting and retaining employees and installers and um another entity that we

work with another industry partner is install um and they um see the cool with

install is helping um write the or helping with the content for the education section as well as

some of our other um you know foreign contact yeah you guys also just to make

sure that this gets covered give um you have some free resources for your members to properly train their

installers in house even some curriculum stuff I know I've gotten some of it like some of the flooring um installation

training uh curriculum that you can self I mean if you're not going to do any if

you're not going to go to the training ins that was that's how I kind of took that but it's still about training the

installer right yeah fit program yeah uh that's our it's like a inhouse training

program so it has it's kind of like a train the trainer and you train employees using your materials like

train install using whatever materials on job yep y awesome yeah well thanks

for joining us today um do you have when is the next convention and how

do uh in contractors that have not engaged with the FC and one other thing

too is uh they said don't forget about the next meeting regional meeting February 16th yeah February 16th in

Stockton California at ARX um and Wagner leaders I don't know if Jason commented

that he's doing he's doing one of the education sessions there it's on um like sub prep and moer mitigation so FC we

started doing these Regional meetings um after Co in between our large imperson meetings to get our U members together

in person you know more frequently throughout the year so they're free to members and non-members um yeah and yeah

housing at different facilities so February 16th in sackton California anyone is available to go it's uh a one

day like 9 to three um type of training and yeah that'll be great and then we

have um the midyear meeting coming up in Dalton before the two days before the mid meeting we're going to be doing a

two days to send so if anyone to send people through it in person Sim you both did your Sims in person yeah he did it

when it was three days yes I got lucky and wait till it was two that's probably because the evolution again right

evolution of everything get people who areb Mur they don't need three days like that and yeah we have another

two assistant in New Jersey in April so right yeah awesome yeah so we have all our info and

what's the website FC that's easy folks fca.com CJ thanks for

joining us today I appreciate it and patient yeah thanks for your patience

anytime yeah they they can all come come right here they can set up some chairs and

stuff as long as they don't mind being on

camera what's up Carlos you guys doing D you're the first one here last I'm

sorry we had a couple technical the beginning but it's my fault I'll take the blame again well thanks for coming

welcome to the Huddle Carlos we've been talking about getting him on for a while now and he's

just a busy guy so Carlos is with the NF ACP orap yep NF n NF No Cap

though Carlos welcome man um I've talked to you a little bit gotten to know a

little bit about what you guys do tell tell the audience uh what is NFC cap I'm

gonna use that from now on by the way uh yeah so so tell me about your approach to training what's your what what's

what's going on over there what you about you know in our industry but the way that we see ourselves is we more of

a theater um you know we're out there looking for the Next Generation tap into

a youth that M doesn't know what they want to doing like so we present from the fling industry you know we do like

we intro to fling they do carpet tile with fling resilient and then from there

they choose they want to do one of those those routes and some they say no I don't want to do this I'm be trip be a f

so we're kind of helping them out make a decision in life um then after that we find a local contractor that wants to

you know hire an apprentice and follow the standards um and just keep training them for the next three to four years

that can be their you know leaden Dollar Man or they can transition to sales or marketing one day you never know right

own or owner orer I know they want some of them here want to be their own foreign contractor have their own

company absolutely well all of us started at that as an installer I was I was a Helper and moved on I became you

know the best at sheet vinyl no I mean I I was a Helper and I fell in love with you

know we did a lot of Hospital work so I fell in love with flash cove sheep vinyl and that's where I ended up getting my

certifications I know this man's the same kind of path in love this dude's a

master of disaster and does all kinds of stuff but but the point is is that there's once you get a skill like that

it really gives you the confidence that you can go do whatever within this industry but get that skill right you

know get some years of installation under you and then doors will open up absolutely and I think one of the the

key things that I'm taking away from what we were talking about is that you actually give them every segment of the

industry and you're like do you like any of these ones and then you give them that choice it's either yes I like this

one let's specialize or no I don't like any of them all right let's see what other programs work for you correct and

and we we got some communication too like I know that there's been a little bit of a gap in right like fill this out or it's not working but uh um we have

talked about customizing like hey you called me and said what is it do you need as a company what would benefit

your company the most from a training aspect and knowledge point if you were to have someone start tomorrow what

would you need them to know what would you like them to know and and being able to customize some of that like you said

introduce them to all the disciplines and then have them pick their discipline because it suits them or they just love

it and uh building on top of that that's that's something different not a lot of people are doing something like

that that's that's awesome that you guys have that in place yeah well there's a lot of different approaches to training

and and placement so you really need companies who

need helper apprentices uh level people to engage with you and then you kind of

match uh their need right like then you go out and you got some students with you here today I understand we have some

can we bring them up let's bring them all so hey you know

what bro we're still all apprentices of black man so it doesn't need to matter right we're students Ben can you uh

bring some chairs over oh you got you gota ask Kevin Ben

Ben left Ben left building

Kevin so I think it's pretty awesome that you you brought the team with you man because uh looking back like a show

like this can kind of change your mind to how big the industry is like everyone says that the flooring industry is very

very small but big at the same time and you kind of see that here where I mean

you can walk from one side to the other a mile and dude I got 10,000 steps by 10

o'clock yeah he got here at 928 all right so uh where's everybody

from Angel how about

you from Mexico oh what's your name kisten

Chavez Mrs Lopez I'll leave it at that sorry I'm not these things make it hard

hi oh Andrea welcome Britney from

Arlington Jeremy from Texas as well all right so how how' this all come to be how they in Vegas with you man um well

top they were the top students they show commitment to the trade and because they show commitment and kind want to show

them the road map to our industry it's not just being an installer opportunity to go to different you there's a lot of

Manufacturers here I met a lot of technical reps who used to have their own flooring company and I work for a

corporation so that's something that I want them to see that there's a lot of opportunity in our industry it is not

you're not just going to be installing for for the rest of your life not unless you want to yeah unless you want to because there's plenty of guys out there

that you know 60 70 years old that that we've known personally that they're like this is just what I like doing so that's

what I'm going to do yeah but you know but I I do look forward to seeing uh one one day one of them hopefully compete in

the competition here um I'd like to see all of them compete yeah what do you guys think about Crystal competing in

the uh the competition you might want to move that microphone

you're rooting for her you got some fans Crystal hey you already had fans though right who's

crystal that's baby sister yeah yeah so uh I'm glad that everybody you know gets

a chance to see like the youth coming in that's what I think is special about what you're doing uh however you're

doing it your secret sauce over there is awesome I mean all the profile that I've

looked at when you and I were talking you you tend to be able to attach

yourself or attach uh in fcap to uh the youth that's important right like you

don't have to um there's a lot of people that don't really know what path they're going to take when they get out of high

school and for you to be there or your organization to be there to help guide

them along dude that is a a piece of what's clearly missing I mean I mean you

know Steve ABY kind of T touched on it earlier as well but committing to the

youth so what what kind of what does that look like for you guys What attracted the youth and the diversity

that you guys bring to the table which I think is special yeah um I think one one of our biggest you know reasons why we

we could succeed is because our one of our partners is Job Court okay you know Job Court has like 121 locations

nationwide um and his students there you know taking carpentry or BCT which is um

fielders construction technology and so what we do is we we we target them at

the school and we present in the Ping trade and they come out to see some presentation from manufactur gr uh a

demonstration and they do an application process and they get interviewed and the ones who really want to do it you kind

of can tell after an interview and they start the 8we intro to and touch everything and and then we figure out if

they really wanted to do and is this at a given location or do you do it at multiple places how do you

how do you operate that um so they they went through Gary J cor which is in San maros Texas that's the first one we

opened up about two years ago uh but now we have Dallas which isny Texas and we

have San Francisco which is in California which are our three locations we have right now um but we're not

planning to to grow like those three locations I think we want to do now just go in do a presentation be in the theard

and then hey you want to do flooring um come to this school in in in San Marcos

do fling bring them from different parts of the country and then send them back from that's awesome yeah that's really

really cool so um what what uh level or what time frame

are are your students in currently well well you know um and I should have let you just introduce them yeah than me

trying that weird like what's your name and I can't hear him anyway because they got my dang handon on how long you been working at J eight

months J with oh that's cool yeah she's good pigs she real good

pigs and long you been there eight months so yeah eight months

and these two are currently students school they're going to graduate soon they were play in March um she made the

decision to take the wood route and she made the decision a TI Setter we place when what companies at nobody wants to

do I mean honestly if you look at social media a lot of the

female it takes that detail you know it takes there there's detail there like

the mosaicist stuff like that it's the detail work in and something like that and I I hope you you guys to go far in

your career um we talked about the evolution of of a career and I hope you can see that here how you you're not

going to be stuck um learn as much as you can now to help you in your future later and I I commend Carlos and the

program because right now um I mean over Across the Nation the flooring

installer is fighting for a seat at the table and you're presenting that so thank you for that yeah yeah it's a

great program and thanks for you know like reaching out I think that uh you

know what I I I especially like about everything that we've done here today is

that it's not about the manufacturer we're at a trade show with the the biggest manufacturers in the world and

we're sitting here talking about the most important part of all that in the world but it is it is the labor and the

training and the the opportunities that you guys are providing so it would be awesome for to get these manufacturers

involved into into talking to you guys we're GNA get there we'll get there one day we're g to get there we need that

yeah but they're listening too they're listening too right and they're moves are probably way more strategic than

ours but we're we're making moves so yeah we're throwing battle axes and they got they got drawings out and planning

but that's all right so what's the um what's next what are you guys doing at the rest of the show here uh we'll walk

around and go to the competition um see a couple more you know manufacturers

tools tools love yeah I know they want to go to some tools right now I don't

blame you and then never gonna go eat awesome yeah that's awesome man thank you for uh thank you for being on today

man we appreciate it and thanks for always reaching out I know you you're not a quiet one so you gotta be low to

make some change and that's what you're doing I mean I can't do it without you guys yeah he's got a lot of figh dude I

mean he has a Scorpio he's got awesome birthday too so you guys have the same birthday you got the same birthday how'

you forget my birthday man didn't even text me bro you on you said how you know my birthday I

look at your ID like two years ago that's funny all right well thanks

for joining and uh looks like we got one more you guys enjoy the show

ladies have fun I'm glad you guys were able to come oh hey before you run Carlos what's the easiest way for a

company that may want to get in touch with you what's the easiest way outside of like Google well you know what I I'll

give you my correct line my phone number is 305 972 2232 we told you he's

bold and we we got the link up right here too guess what you have no excuses

anymore you have his direct M yeah so Carlos get ready for your phone to blow

up yeah you think about that all right thanks brother

oopsie I got you hey thank you [Music]

hey made it I made it made it you actually been youve been hovered Mr Scott B Banda Banda Panda Scott Banda

you got it PA I fumbled every everybody else's name I figured yours is too easy I got to

Fumble it somehow so he's got welcome man what's going on today oh just uh

really chatting it up with a lot of people great a lot of activity here it's been great it's busy right it's been

busier than uh uh the past years honestly I mean think so yeah it's great

uh so Scott is with Flor Cloud if you don't know about Flor Cloud just a uh

quick overview and I'll let Scott take it from there but floor cloud is basically a remote job site monitoring

system and he'll give you more information here but uh instead of driving four hours to your job site to

see what the site conditions are and see if the uh you know concrete moisture is

uh within industry standards you know look up floor cloud and uh they you can

get it right from your desktop so Scott welcome give us a little bit of information a little little more detail

than what I just did there on floor Cloud Sure so floor Cloud uh it's a solution that we basically built for

contractors uh small large medium General Contractors really across all trades uh we started the company focused

on flooring because that's where my partner and I basically came out of and uh it allows contractors to remotely

monitor their job sites so you mentioned um the concrete moisture that's uh in

Partnership of Wagner meters yep um and those are the probes that are essentially monitoring the relative

community in the slab as well as a slab attemp but we also have sensors that I have one here for but these These are um

basically sensors that go on the wall and these measure ambient temperature humidity Vio and track GPS location so

the concept here is that these are tracking site conditions and then every hour sending out data through the

cellular network so there's no wifi involved or looking for passwords or anything like that and what we're doing

is we're measuring the site conditions against the manufacturer specification I

think this is uh just to jump in this is where magic happens go ahead so um we have a database with over

10,000 products in there we and those are the product specs so for all your flooring products the primers

self-leveling underl adhesives what we're doing is we're comparing those site conditions against those specs and

if things go out of spec uh for example if a a general contractor building owner

actually turned off controls I got too hot to you guys probably have never seen that in your life right um You will get

a notification a push notific in real time so the concept is that the contractor can take corrective action um

to avoid something really mushrooming into a big problem you know like bubbling gapping you know all that stuff

you guys yeah all the issues and you can save yourself some some time driving out to a job site and tossing a probe into

or your reader into the Wagner probe to find out that you are still not within

tolerance absolutely save yourself some time inrease like you can keep in even

after installation to monitor this uh site still yeah so um not really on the

Wagner side because once you cover up that you're gonna have issues with communication coming okay because it's

Bluetooth right correct um but with our Sensers you can still monitor the

ambient conditions and we have people doing that actually where they'll keep them behind for a month or even a couple

months um just to really help again protect the contractor I can tell you guys there's been a lot of situations

where luckily a contractor will have these on there for an another a month and then for example if a general

contractor cools the building too quickly um we get notification we've been in a situation you know because we

live in Michigan where uh we're running on temporary heat and something Happ

temp heat the propane will run out the the electricity will run will you know a Brak will pop or something then you got

nothing that's exactly right so and that that's normally what happens is we detect when that starts to change we

make it very easy for the contractor our contractor to share the data with just a click of a button they can share a graph

with their GC or then their owner and the information comes over very professional and very you know detailed

so it's really not question and then um corrective action is you can taken on behalf of GC or the owner get in there

and they'll fix the situation because no one really wants to have warranty problems and that's not at all that's

well and and they don't have to take your your word for it correct this is what happens sometimes right you're out

on a job site and you say your your moisture is high and they or or there's a you know you think the uh temperatur

is out of whack or the humidity is too high or whatever the sight condition may be the GC a lot of times we ran oh it's

all right are you sure blah blah blah blah blah or no we don't turn it off on the weekends or or I I thought it was

this or that or the other it just takes a lot of the guess work out of it I think that's one of the things I see as

huge value that and obviously automatically if you feed your your software what products you have it'll

tell you I believe it tells you in a red light or something a signal something

real easy to read yeah very easy that that hey this product is outside of or

the site conditions are outside this product's recommended level yeah that's that's freaking cool yeah so so

basically what're we're talking about here is uh is protection on all sides right now you're you're you're

protecting the Integrity of the product you're protecting the install because you have the information uh

you're protecting the end user so that way their product doesn't fail essentially exactly um and uh science

doesn't lie science doesn't lie we need him on our uh yeah website saying that

ex comment that's exactly we can talk about that right after [Laughter]

this no that's right so and and this is me probably going off but like

uh this would be beneficial like I know this is geared towards commercial but it almost be beneficial like a large wood

project for custom wood job oh I can't imagine it wouldn't be beneficial in a home even with it yeah for for an

engineer who's got to keep uh you know the our agent home within certain perameters in order for their FL to

perform well yeah you're exactly right we're actually involved with the nwfa and we have customized a couple I'm

always late good ideas man I'm always late you're right on and um we we're now you really started focused on the more

uh commercial focused contractors but but uh things are really rolling out well there so now we're really going

into more residential as well because you know there's a lot of luxury vinyl plank and and wood going into homes all

the time yeah same I mean site a site is a site yeah exactly and the conditions

the the that are needed for these floorings are I mean it doesn't matter if it's a commercial building or a house

exactly still needs it exactly yeah you know and and that's where it goes like um this is going to help people

understand that manufacturers requirements really aren't like or recommendations that really aren't

recommendations requirements yeah let's call them requirements your claim will get denied

if it's not within the recommendation I thought it was just a

recommendation it's just it's suggested that's it yeah yeah no so go ahead I was

say I talked to talked to you a little bit earlier right I don't know to what size of a

company would utilize this best or what here for as far as uh um the type of company but it almost sounds like if

you're not investing into it you're not really protecting yourself um and the

not to like put a plugin for you like that but with the whole science doesn't bu thing like that that is uh that is

something that uh probably should be talked about a little bit more and yeah bring to bring to the light the

importance of uh the temperature in the tracking of the projects well it's certainly talked about when things fail

yeah like yeah so let's talk about just preventing the failures right pre

prevent yourself from putting down flooring outside the requirements of the

floor and you guys help with that in a very economic um and efficient way so that's

right yeah what just on that point um we do have a report um that you can

generate that is really a submitt document so it gets the once you connect

the products that you're going to work with in the software it can generate a one pager that you can easily send off

to the owner of the GC about what the manufacturer specs are for each of the products that you're going to install so

that can start the conversation early about the type of conditions that you need and it doesn't make the contractor

look like they're being difficult but here the parameters specified by the manufacturer so that everybody gets the

warrantee that you know essentially the owner is looking for so so essentially they can stop blaming us installers for

being too picky and you have a document say this is what's required like it's it's not me saying it's the manufacturer

saying that this is what's required yeah often times it gets blamed on uh any number of things when it comes uh down

to it but it like they think we just don't have the Manpower or you just don't have you just don't want to you

know come to the job site for for some other reason no man like these we I've

been through failures they are very very costly and it always costs the flooring

contractor first I can't just your time even if it's a manufacturer's uh defect

or something who pays for it out of the gate like I'm not going to let my client just sit with curled LBT for six months

right until the claim gets figured out right we're going to cover it and then fight the manufacturer so like just

cover yourself on the front side and uh for Cloud's a great way to do that yeah

so what kind of training is needed from a um you know for a company like how long does it take to implement uh floor

Cloud into a company that's a great question so um we designed it to be super simple so literally our training

takes place in 15 minutes or less we love super simple is this a plug play it is as simple as download the app and you

guys have here's the sensor right but once once these come in there's a QR code on the front so you download the

app essentially charge that and then you scan the QR code on the front and it's

activated and it's basically recording data and populating that data on your phone desktop tablet within 30 minutes

and how long does the battery last on this three month battery life um you can leave it plugged in with a cord

indefinitely and then you can recharge it within like two hours back to 100% really that's Gooding with the cord can

you hard wire it in or anything just said you can leave it plugged in you can leave it plugged in so so um I mean

you're not going to wire it into the to the Building Systems there I guess you know if you really

want to cover elri maybe yeah yeah I was going to touch on one thing Paul when you mentioned about you know showing up

and pushing back when the site's ready so one of the most common uses is um the

contractors will put these on the site like a couple weeks or a month in advance and then you're getting the

readings yourself on um really the Readiness of that property so that's

where I see the best Val I mean I don't want to go set that thing when I'm supposed to start I I want to go set

this thing a month ahead of time I mean we're doing a huge Hospital in Western

Kansas and it's going to be you know it's latter part of this year maybe even

first quarter of next year before we start but it's four hours away yeah I want to set this thing in there you know

a month beforehand or two months beforehand and monitor it myself and let

the G I mean and what how much more professional you look when you tell the GC like we're only four weeks out and it

looks like you're far outside the deal you know you probably need to be really F like the ageback needs we to get the

Building closed up you know you got a month of time you become a resource or an asset to the to your GC in those

because they don't have this not I mean they can they could but chances are you're gonna be chances are you're gonna

be on a job site that you're you're GC doesn't have it and you can provide a great service exactly that's how I look

at that's where I thought the the outside the value of like monitoring and

and protecting yourself from failures just not sending Five Guys or eight guys

four hours away just to turn around and come back because it ain't ready well you can have those conversations early

too and it makes the conversation so much easier because it's not an insolar or a company making a recommendation or

shoving the process down someone's throat or just being uh pron it's these are the facts guys you have the same

information that I have that's right um let's have a so we can fix this before it becomes an issue so on that point of

having the same data we have some clients that put their general contractor on the system so essentially

they're seeing that data so if you have a good relationship with some GCS which a lot of you guys basically have your

kind of for DS you put them on the projects it's another way to get super tight with them they get the same data

you see and it just kind of brings it all I mean that actually adds more value to them as well I mean you're you're

providing them with something that they didn't have before so you're protecting yourself you're providing a benefit for

them it's a win-win situation yeah floor Cloud's got your cover when it comes to uh you know site conditions go career's

got you covered when it comes to like video on site you know once your crew does get there shoot a link video with

them walk the job site then you got two reports you got a report that's going to tell you the site conditions and then

you got a report that that downloads out a go careera that'll give you the actual video and uh you know the visual feed

proving that everything's out there so you get them both and and you got your job sites covered bro you're

totally covered yeah totally Scott we we definitely appreciate you we're kind of getting kicked out of the podcast Booth

right now dude I'm glad you got on we were running a little bit behind I'm glad you got on here for Cloud's a great

uh great service to our industry I'm glad you guys came up with it I'm a little jealous and uh but that being

said congrats for all the success I see you guys out there a lot and uh you got to be doing something right when you're

walking up on the big LED and floor clouds on there baby right made me smile Scott thanks for coming brother really

appreciate it and uh look forward to more success for you let let us know what we can do for you thank you all

right thanks Scott hey guys thanks for for joining us this was a long podcast today even though we were late and uh

make sure you're you're liking and subscribing and giving us some some feedback we'd love to to hear anything

that you got to say yeah like um we we presented a bunch of stuff

today we would love to know how you feel about each item I mean get on there tell us about floor Cloud tell us about what

you think our approach uh with training and and how we can better uh not only

the situation from a labor standpoint but how can we work together with the

industry just even deeper right we got we your installers on here he says Derek M Daniel he said that he was uh glad to

be able to watch just live and he loves the content you know and he really loves seeing the younger people getting

involved and so do we so we can't wait to to keep the conversation going and have some more younger guys on here

shout out to Derek he's a stud looks like their get their security getting their tasers we got to go before we get

handcuffed just hopefully a take away for this for anybody watching who isn't in the flooring industry or just

starting or who watchs their advancing careers uh basically my takeway is that we uh there's a lot of different

opportunities it's not just in in there's a lot of different opportun in this indry so check into it give it a

chance yeah all right all right thanks guys well see you we're out ready next one we'll see you tomorrow morning for

the installer of the Year competition announc yeah let's

The Huddle - Episode 84 - The Unforeseen Pitfalls of Luxury Vinyl

This week the guys are joined by special guest Jason Ramsay who brings a wealth of knowledge in the luxury vinyl world to talk about unforeseen pitfalls, educating customers, and handling customer expectations.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

there we go technical difficulty there what's up huddle crew Welcome to our

podcast this week we got some special guests with us uh Jason Ramsey from

California I believe and with me as always Mr Jose and Daniel Daniel

Gonzalez out of Grand Rapids Michigan yo yo guys are uh you feeling better Daniel

you back in the feeling way better nice so we just got back from Ty and um this

is our second week back actually and Daniel came back with the Old Co but until the last podcast he was

hacking and coughing the whole time yeah it was it was not good but I'm all better now we can't get that through the

microphone and stuff can we we can't I think that's how I got it no put on a

Mas Jason that would be fun working on that right now ai's trying to figure out for that so Jason's um a flooring installer

uh runs a subcontracting company out of uh out of California and I want your

quick take Jason on who you are kind of what what Niche you've fallen into in

flooring and then uh a little you know a little bit about your background but then uh you know on our topic the

pitfalls of uh luxury vinyl you know give us the high Lev View and then we'll

dig in so tell us a little bit about yourself yeah sounds good so tylon floring contractor out here in a

beautiful Orange County California land of avocado toast and yoga pants right

yeah baby that's right but I started 993 as a carpet installer evolved uh uh went

through a lot of trial and errors ups and downs uh became a Thailand foreign contractor out here uh eventually got my

moisture testing uh for slabs certification and then uh evolved into a

uh flooring inspector and uh out here run about five employees and um just

dealing with the everyday in and out of this business it's amazing right yeah

yeah we talk a lot about the um the fun the the the complications the pitfalls

of the industry itself and so you know and how some times we can be Our Own

Worst Enemy um so you mentioned um a

couple things as we were kind of getting to know each other before the podcast started uh one of them being that uh let

me mention two of them but one of them being that you had a light bulb or a

moment of like hey I want to know more about this and you really started digging into training and and getting

certified and things like that what can you tell us a little a little bit about that we're really big on certifications

and training and improving yourself yeah and I agree so I was

reading the manufacturers uh instructions one day and I was going through all of it and I was just kind of

Blown Away at all the basically booby traps was what I called it for for us

for us installers out there I felt like it was just unbelievable the things that we had to conform to in order to really

have that manufacturers warranty and also provide that to the customer so reading that I just was like

I I was almost scared and and so that started my my journey into and really an

obsession I mean NCT and ARX and I just if there was something out there that I

could take I mean and a lot of it was during covid as well so I was taking lots of webinars and stuff but then if

there was a a class somewhere that I could go and I could take something I mean I was doing it I was really investing in in me um and then I started

to to put my my employees through the uh through through the same

things gotcha yeah that was the second thing was you have employee installers

uh California with the ab5 rules uh you know

really doubl down in a lot of ways and make it really tough if not impossible

for this 1099 thing you have to be a legitimate um uh a legitimate company to you know

perform the Labor uh the way that you do um so I thought that was interesting one

of the things we promote big here as well is that Subs uh I own a commercial

floor covering company in in witto Kansas so we do we we have about SE 70

to 80 subcontractors that we run and we have about 12 to 13 employee in house uh

benefited you know uh health insurance kind of W2s W2s employee installer

sometimes I go really deep in that to make sure drives home with people but

um you know one of the things that we promote big time is if you're a sub you

need to be hiring employees and not trying to$ 1099 out your labor at that

point uh you know these guys should be on your payroll uh what whatever benefits package you can afford to give

them uh should be given to them and they but they should be on your on your as a

W2 um it sounds like that's pretty much a must in

California yeah that's that's right there's really no way around it and it doesn't really even matter your structure if you can structure LLC as

cor DBA whatever and for instance if I hire somebody that does flooring

uh they are W2 you know there's this thing called this ABC rule IRS has it

California state has it and to try to classify somebody as a 1099 it's it's

it's it's virtually impossible so now if they're a plumber right we can do that right um painter something yeah because

it it boils down especially in California to is it work that you could do or that you performed on your in your

daily business and if so then you cannot sub that portion out that should be done

I'm house now that doesn't mean that flooring yeah it doesn't mean that flooring contractors can't sub to you it

just means that then your employees or your your workers must be W2 uh

employees yeah and the regulation with that really comes down to um it's funny

it's it's insurance companies right it's workers comp companies when they're doing the audits

um and that's because you know the the the State Franchise Board or the tax the

tax board or the Ed employee Development Department they're not throwing darts in just going around and auditing people

the way they find out is is if somebody reports um reports that business but um

it's really the workers comp and they're making all the money right on the premiums and and yeah that's what they

want right yeah yeah really that's exactly what it is and it seems like out of all the agencies and all the

bureaucracy all the things that I have to all the Hoops have to jump through it's the insurance company that I have to really comply with which yeah they're

the ones that going to give you your yearly audit and all that good stuff yeah yeah even though where pay go so it

you know it's pay as as you go the workers comp and they see all that they still audit you know yeah and look for

it but yeah so that's that's how it is out here and there's still a lot of businesses I see them all the time that

are skirting that system and you know I can go onto the contractor State License Board and I can look at their license

that license on there tells us so much more information and it tells us if they have workers's comp or not so let's say

I'm doing an inspection and I do a deep dive on the company and I'm like look you guys you guys you know Four Guys

Five Guys here doing this job or whatnot and you're exemp from workers comp so I

mean I I'm not the workers comp police but my point is you know there's a lot

of people not playing by the rules yeah mind your pce Nationwide right that's not just California yeah but it looks

like California has a better handle on it than the rest of the US does you just you just taught me that insurance

companies have way more pool than they think they do for that they know well they don't they don't sponsor all the go

every golf tournament in the world because they're not making money that you know yeah the the

California what they did with their ab5 is really make it just that much more

comp uh complicated to then sub out to you know the a third tier sub first tier

is typically uh first and second tier so the general Subs to me and I can sub

mine as long as they have their cois the Certificate of Insurance

and then they name you and they can do all that then good when you come to that audit yeah it's just a matter of making

sure that you are um you know that a you have all that but you know that's where

it kind of gets rid of the third fourth fifth tier where everybody's exempt on a job from work comp and nobody and it

opens up that that risk factor so well that's a quick lesson everybody on

insurance now on to flooring um yeah could we could have been uh you know a

whole topic on that yeah yeah one of the things we're gonna have to talk about that one one time just the whole episode

yeah I'm gon say one thing he mentioned earlier was all the the complicated stuff about the industry and and uh

that's one of them but um yeah so you got into flooring you probably got

snagged like the rest of us and stayed in uh Jose and Daniel both have the same

same kind of you get sucked in man I mean that's right flinging

it sucks you in and it doesn't let you out doesn't let you out so today

uh sorry go ahead Jason oh I was just gonna say you know it when it's good

it's good but when it's bad it can be bad amen well and kudos to you for

getting uh inspector uh certification as well because that's one of the things

that where we think um you know I I personally haven't done it and I think

that it would be a good thing not only only for myself but for you know installers out there to know what the

inspectors are going to be looking for uh we kind of talked about that in previous episodes as well but um who

knows on that yeah it strengthens your whole business because you're able to see the other side of it and you're able

to then um curtail any of those things that you may be doing in your business

right that's really what I did that why I started that for and then it turn it just blossomed in this whole other world

and this whole other thing but but that's that's why I did that because you

think you know stuff as it installer and you think you can run your top cutter you think you can do your Tri you think you can do all this stuff the reality is

it's it's it's it's it's mind uh mindblowing and I suggest any of you guys to to to pursue that at least that

better use that r one that I got yeah yeah yeah there's a lot of good

ones out there NC CT has one and there's a few there's a few other ones um some could be a little scammy and stuff but I

highly recommend the NCT is one that uh I believe you know both of these guys

what's up Rand um both of these guys work with the NCT from a uh a training

perspective and curriculum and all that kind of stuff so great organization there with sunny and Paul that's right

yeah so the unforeseen pitfalls a luxury vinyl um yes you know what good point

there Daniel I want to uh bring up we're going to be at the summit coming up in uh Dalton Georgia two weeks right in a

couple of weeks so uh yeah yeah so if you can make it out to Dalton and um

it's at the Dalton Convention Center in afct is putting that on in uh in unison

with unite which is uh Robert Varden I believe and and his group and uh it's a

great opportunity for installers come out meet other other Crews work on best

practices one of the things I I I plead with our installer uh audience for is

the a lot of companies we go and we meet with other companies at fuse Alliance or

starnet or uh FC and what we're there for is to absorb best practic from other

companies and then see if we can go back to our office and apply those that's what these things are for for the

installers to go get to know other installers find out best practices you

just learned from Jason and what we've talked about multiple times is getting your

inspector's license a lot of times it's a partial online partial in person there's multiple different ways you can

go about it but uh being trained all these things we promote on the Huddle

here you know getting out and meeting other installers let's stop this siloing each other away

and get out meet each other understand what Jason's doing great in um in

California what Jose and and Daniel are doing great in Michigan what we may be doing right down here in Witchita what

other people are doing right in South Carolina and then try to take those business best practices back in your

installation business so that the come come is at the summit will be exhibiting there go Carrera will and uh come see us

so on to the topic which is uh you know probably the isn't it didn't they say

Daniel and Jose did you guys catch on the LA at Ty it's it's still the fastest

growing uh they thought L lvt would uh cool off and it's not yeah not everyone

is almost going like there's a lot of talk with the sales guys about going back to laminate but vinyl is not going

anywhere anytime soon because I mean you were at the show the amount of people

there that were exhibiting vinyl was ridiculous yes I think it's industry

like it residential or commercial so in the commercial world I don't see any type of resilient going anywhere anytime

soon um no you're right yeah so EAS to

maintain yeah no wax you know there there's a lot of great benefits but

today's topic is about pitfalls so what kind of pitfalls are we seeing do we

know about in the residential let's kick it off in the residential World a lot of

that's going to be your spc's your your solid cores made of different things what kind of things have you guys ran

across that we would be valuable to the audience to understand that like watch

out for this drop lock drop lock

I mean we can talk to the we can ask the inspector but I'm pretty sure drop Lock's a big deal you know before he

gives a before he gives his two sense into that because I know it's gonna be a lot smarter than mine um you know a lot

of is we're having it might not even be the product right the majority of the issues is the installer error of it it's

just that the margin for error is just so slim on that drop loock that it's got

to be absolutely perfect and you know you can't have someone who's used to getting paid by the square foot going in

there try to bang out a job like they're doing a regular laminate project walk away everything looks good you know you

get a phone call a week later and everything's thumbnailing um because it wasn't laid and set in perfect before

they either pounded it down too hard or pressed it or rolled it however they want to engage that Locking System so so

what's the problem guys what what what what are the problems we are seeing like

what what are the symptoms of the the issue of the install

so um and you guys are right about the the drop lock there's angle lock there's a lot of different locking mechanisms

and I think sometimes guys don't understand they they blanket approach these products and what does that comes

back to right we're not reading we're not reading the instructions I mean you got QR codes they're on YouTube they're

in Spanish they're in English they're in French in Italian I see so there's really no excuse to understand what what

locking mechanism is on the product that you're installing but guys just don't and then there's no communication from

the head installer for and owner whatever but let's rewind that let's let's let's let's talk about let's talk

about the first so this this stuff is marketed so well right your your

brother's doing it the designer the sister the cousin it's everywhere you're on Facebook it's all over the place everybody's doing it's the best thing

since sliced bread but that and then you go into these showrooms right these

people go to these showrooms they're looking at almond and butter wheat and oh this one looks great with my my my

paint and decor or whatnot but the reality what what's really needs to be

discussed is who's installing it how they're installing it are they qualified

or certified um but sales people don't want to touch upon that

why well they there there's multiple reasons why just my uh opinion here but one of

them being that the the percentage of installers that are certified or um have

taken some level of training has fallen off a cliff in the last 10 15 years so

it's a shortage of these certified and highly trained installers uh first off

and secondly it's like I did a talk at at Ty about this

like they're they're scared to promote their installer as uh for fear of losing

out or getting gone around uh I noticed that a bit at the show uh I promote like

sell yourself sell your company based on the quality of your installer group and

so anyway that's my two cents on that so a lot of these showrooms um they're they

don't have in-house installation okay so once they make a sale um that

customer done on own right and and then then everything falls into whose lab the

installers lab right um and so this is where we're

seeing the big problem so salese they may not necessarily be taking product knowledge classes they may have worked

at a grocery store a month before and now they're in this environment where they're selling floors and they really

don't know about all the products and how it has to be installed so what so the biggest the biggest Pitfall that I

see is is is and as you guys probably know is it's going to be floor

prep I think we've had about different comments already I mean just this one

right here from Chad prepping the homeowner for what true prepping is right you know Jimmy saying that

flatness is the big issue and then Rin was just like floor prep like right off the bat and that's that's one of the big

issues so sales people don't want to touch upon that right either they don't even know they don't care or they don't

want to scare that person off right I think they're trained to avoid that

conversation all together because could essentially scare a client away could be a lot of them don't know the difference

between an SBC lvp well they don't know Lam they don't know what they're even sound they don't even know like you said

this one looks good in my house so that's the one that I want yeah butter toast this is gonna be

great but the reality is the reality is these products they need to be almost

count you need countertop flatness so you know we go back to the 316 and 10 we

all we all understand that but you think homeowners they can't process this asmf

710 stuff and manufacturers guidelines and 316 and 10 they don't even know an inch to millim they don't know they

don't know just to make it look nice but then what happens is 12 16 18 14 22 months later when there's deflection

right and you've got creased joints and they're starting to they're starting to have ledging and then they're starting

to break and come up they're hitting their toe socks it's a whole thing it just it's downhill from there right all

because of the guy that came in at 15,000 who included um grinding priming

and self-leveling everything to the other guy that comes in who doesn't have that and he's just gonna try and do a spot patch or something doesn't even

come in with a 10 foot level or scet um and it's gonna do the job for 8,000 so

you got x amount versus this amount and most customers are price driven I get it I get it but this is why we have to try

to educate people and this is my mission is to try to educate homeowners they still don't want to see so when I go

into a lot of these inspections and and it's it's it's totally ruined people their their eyes are wide open they're

listening they want to learn right but hindsight's 2020 so when I go in and I do an

estimate I'm 15,000 the other person's 8,000 well that's a big difference and

there's a reason right the reason is these products need to be super flat the

slus are expensive primers are expensive getting it right is expensive having your gauge rakes and Spike rollers and

getting everything done right there's so much more to it than just mixing up some web creete 95 and throwing that down and

thinking you're just gonna patch your way through this job no you're gonna you can make it worse because what you

thought was a high spot could actually be a low spot so you're grinding it and you're making a bigger low spot you're

making it worse and you don't have the right um tools to tell you what's really

going on with that substrate or subfloor so getting it flat is the number

one issue that I'm seeing um in this industry with these products now

laminates for the most part and then wood floors we still need that flatness right we still need that 316 some we can

get you know an e here and there but with the laminates but we still need that flatness so it really doesn't matter what product you're putting down

this notion that this luxury Vinyl Products are so inexpensive and they're waterproof and all this stuff and you

don't need to couldn't be couldn't be farther from the truth right yeah the waterproof thing drives me nuts

but I I got it's been raining here for 48 hours all my extra samples I'm gonna

build a wrath my man with this LBP we're gonna see how water yeah the the whole waterproof uh

you mentioned earlier one of the the bait and switches is uh about

waterproofing being waterproof for example is just how well they Market

this stuff it is it is mind-blowing how good of a job they've done at marketing

this waterproof scenario Well yeah if you spill a cup of water in a well-installed uh you know floor in the

middle away from the edges that are likely not silic ConEd or anything like

that okay it could be waterproof in that zone uh but if you're on slab it does

nothing for high for moisture mitigation or moisture coming up from the bottom

and it also does nothing if you're going to flood a room and it goes around to the edges it it's like yeah yeah it's

waterproof in a a cup size like th you know this big of a square foot in the

middle of the of a well-installed floor uh but there's a lot of pitfalls with that so anyway yeah there's an as

there's an ASM standard um for the product and basically I think it starts at they have to be uh up to 24 hours and

then they measure the the the swelling of the XP pad right the back the the

your underlayment pad that's attached and Andor the product so I think it's like two to three% or 5 percent so that

there is a standard there that they can technically say that and they have to has to be done um has to within 24 you

have to pass 24 hours and then right and we keep on talking about ASM standards

right and I think that's one of the misconceptions is that just since we're installers we automatically should know

all these things but there's plenty of installers that don't and I think that's one of the big hiccups is you have

professional installers doing it but they may not be as professional as you think right just because you do it every

day doesn't mean that you're doing it right and why you're doing it that way

yeah and and STM you know they have these things outlined like you mentioned f710 earlier and there's probably guys

listening right now or ladies that don't know what f710 is so yeah if you don't definitely go look it up I mean it's a

document that you have to pay for but we should probably do a podcast on

ASM f710 100% yeah I'm on that committee uh fo6 is the Comm we just joined we

just joined as well oh co good good good for you guys they raised the price too so fun fun with that right well we

joined like two months ago maybe oh okay so well anyways it's it's

that's great gives you voting rights and there's there's so much knowledge out there understanding why you're doing

things right why why are we getting these this substrate into you know 316 from 10 why are we putting Vapor

retarders vapor barriers and we can have a discussion on that someday too if you want the difference of vapor retarders

and barriers us that terminology so so some of the I just

want to bring up something some of the uh items that we're talking about the

pitfalls really that they display themselves in what you were talking

about earlier we got some deflection uh comments and some of the comments but

the um you know delamination the things that happen because the sock Grabbers and the toe

Cutters and the things of the of this that is the the symptom from not

properly preparing not proper installation proper acclamation proper storage and

acclamation and that's right St and acclamation too different correct what

what are you talking about they don't it doesn't need acclamation it says right on the box it doesn't need acclamation ready for I got a good story

for you from one I did last week on that one it's it's but yeah all those people who have uh their

commercial material stored outside in a conx in 75 degree weather it's like 120

in there you're really compromising that material so and probably one of the difficult most difficult things to do

because every job is unique in and of itself and the challenges and uh you know put areas to put the material and

time constraints and on and on and on and trying to conform to everything it's it's it's

nearly impossible they make it so possible for the installers as you guys know and I know you guys have climate

controlled storage places which is fantastic and you're able to document and show all that stuff I me that's that's that's that's what you got to do

because it's just not practical to be able to on some of the yeah the best we can do is uh we have an acclamation Zone

and we try to get it as close as possible because frankly um just as you were mentioning there's just there's

jobsite access issues and I'm in commercial so in that world there's jobsite access issues storage issues

ontime deliveries written into your contract where it's like ontime delivery but it's got to acclimate for 24 or 48

Hours well sorry like this has to happen um

yeah and and there's all these schedule constraints and all those stuff and and

preferred does a lot of commercial um as well but uh they also do some

residential I only do commercial except for once in a great while some friends or Architects uh their houses will do

but we don't do retail residential but um anyway long story short it's all

those constraints that Force us into these boxes of trying to make a product work and sometimes pushing the limits of

what acclamation means yeah that's that's right I just inspected one where they did it in

August it was schools and it was lvp and it's all the products outside is 9

degrees right you could imagine go and install it turn on the AC's and everything guess what

happens yeah man G Gap right so

conditions and and all that stuff uh comes into play as well so Jason when I

went to the NCT I went to one of the seminars I mean this was probably 2018 or something uh Brent fik from Ry

actually had a presentation on just dimensional stability and how much the

pl can actually grow and then you do that over you know there some of these companies are saying that there's no

limit to you don't you don't need any transitions anywhere there's no limit anymore right but the science behind how

much it can grow and how much is actually acceptable is ridiculous like

man how can it grow that much and I mean still be considered stable and they are

yeah that's that that's where knowing all this stuff comes into play right

yeah they have and they have memory so there's like something called like an analing process so when it's when they're made they're heat they're heated

at a certain temperature and size and so they go back to that size right and so this was this one I measured I I did my

own my own redneck test and I I demonstrated how just in my truck it GW

this product was like 35 and 15 16 it was like a nominal 36 but just in my

truck for 30 minutes it grew to 36 inches and then I took it and put it into a project that was on on the

concrete substr and it went back down to 35 and 1516 so in a matter of a few minutes right so just by that and and

when I inspected these schools four different schools every plank was 35 and

156 every flank and there was the everything was gapped um and the gaps are like 30 a 30 second in the 16th but

regardless every plank every plank I mean i measur r I measured so many freaking planks I got I'm down with it

enough you guys are G to get the point so but anyway so with that it's definitely so important to acclimate now

I'll go do I'll measure residentials where the people have the attic stock sitting outside for two years in all

kinds of weather and they're perfect okay so you know there there you go

right um but so to to turn back so the first thing that that the first Pitfall

is that flatness and the importance of um really educating that buyer that that

consumer um how how important it is to to really get that right and to spend the money on that everything is prep you

prep your walls you go to paint your car you clean your dishes you prep right you're not just throwing dirty dishes

into the dishwasher you're going to clean them up you're gonna prep those things so Prep Prep Prep and why why in

all all these other Industries everything else prep is is okay but in the flooring industry people don't want

to pay prep and that's what it comes down to for some single reason um people don't want to pay for prep and

and I see it all the time guys are always telling me they don't want to pay Jason they don't want to pay well you

know why'd you do the job then you know I mean that's another another thing right guys are still doing the projects

right and they know better and so um but so prep is is what I find right now with

these products in residentials the number one thing and then I would say second um right now would be uh

uh some type of moisture management system one way or the other right um and

starting by reading those manufacturers guidelines are going to give most installers the the the direction of

where to go with that Kendall Kendall you know had a

comment up here saying that there was an entire upper level that they had to replace and the manufacturer didn't

require a a vapor barer barrier underneath it and then after this failure they they retract and said all

right we're going to change the spec and then now they require it but the fact of the matter is is that it's just like

everything else right it's almost it's almost like a trial and error if they don't catch it at the factory they're

going to catch it in the field somewhere and at least this this manufacturer owned up and said yep it's our fault

Let's uh let's figure this out and change our actual spec yeah I I want to bring something up

so we we have the staller side um you know floor prep making sure we

properly um communicate to the end user whoever that may be the reasons why we

need to do floor prep and if you can use ASM standards or the manufacturer's

recommendations in your favor that's what I always do I'm like I would love

to just come in and blow and go and knock this thing out but you have you know quarter inch dips all the way down

your hallway your lvt is going to look like hammered poop when it's completed a

B I can't control gaap or anything on the install as it's going because when

it goes down it takes more room and you you you have issues uh particularly if

it's like a VCT or something uh let alone LBT but the point uh I was getting

to is we also have some Manufacturing things we need to talk about like regions of manufacturing and things of

this that we need to be cognizant of as installers and where we know that there

are clear regions of the world where product come from that will give you a

higher likelihood of issue um do you guys why is that why is it the region do

you think or it's mainly the raw materials that they use to make their back that's right it's where they Source

it's where they source the uh the uh the chemicals and the products from because they could be sourcing from three two

three four different places and and and Manufacturing it in in one region and we

don't know what goes in that secret sauce per se right we don't know we can't police all that you just don't

know how the quality of those things so yeah right and that's where the manufacturers come in right because they

they should be testing every batch that comes in to make sure that it's supposed to be exactly what they need one of my

favorite manufacturers which I'm not going to mention manufacturers names but one of my favorite manufacturers does a

really good job of visiting the actual plants that's right talking with the

actual people on the on the floor making the product um and does a really good

job of vetting out and making sure that the plant is producing something he can

stand his brand can stand behind absolutely and I think that's really important is to make sure you're dealing

with manufacturers who care enough about their product that they they know where

it's sourced they understand where the raw materials are coming from this is the complication of being an installer I

I wish it wasn't this way either guys I wish we didn't have to be chemists concrete experts you know raw material

experts and uh you know understand how the products actually made to put it doesn't change the fact that we need to

be just because we don't think it should be that way it doesn't change the fact that that's how it is right now that's

the only way you can mitigate your risk yeah and like Chad said right here I mean we we talk about it all the time

you know reading the bucket of adhesive and that's pretty much what he's saying make sure you're reading it it doesn't

matter if you've installed it a thousand times on that next one it could the instructions could have changed I have

aile situation with this with this exact thing where the backing system changed

the installation instructions changed a lot changed and all of a sudden we had

2,000 yards that had to be replaced and it was not a cheap thing the manufacturer did come to the table on it

but it was it was a major problem and so you I have another instance where we

were putting an underlayment under lvt and one the the instructions in the

package this is complicated a little bit um puts us at another disadvantage but

the instructions in the package uh change so I I also encourage you to

check the online stuff because that's what we did verified with the

manufacturer which way it was uh to be uh done and when they had an issue and

the GC tried to point and say well the install instructions say film down and

we were like well that's outdated they can't recall 20,000 rolls or 200,000

rolls and change this piece of paper they keep their online stuff up to date

that's right that's another point to to make sure as an installer or you're kind of think read the packaging but also I

encourage everybody Google is your friend go find the install instructions

online and just double check that's right those are those are always up to

date yeah that that saved our rear end on this project literally the fact that

we installed it correctly on the most updated installation instructions and not the

way that the pamphlet in the material said to do it right and I I think that's one of the the the only downside I can

see of all the networking and stuff that we do is that you become known by some

of these people right because I've called some of these Tech reps and then they're like oh I trust you it's like I

need an answer like come on now yeah yeah yeah yeah what do you what do you think I think I want to be

covered we had one where the primer said um wait four hours before stalling the

Florida but online it says uh wait four hours or uh ambiant conditions pend

depending or something like that right so I'm not in Delaware or New York or

Florida right Southern California pretty nice weather and so it was gold after

two hours we were good we were good to go uh I had my hydrometer I tested it everything was fine and she had made a

big thing because the bucket said four hours well these the bucka was like 11 months old they updated or such like

said and that was that that saved me yeah so knowing knowing those things

um it doesn't take a lot of time take just take a few minutes of your time and

verify that your install instructions are correct it could save you and then you know kind of understanding I think

stores need to be cognizant of this more so than the installers of where where

yes are that and what the products are that they're selling so I tell stores

listen when when they come to pick the material up from your from your shop or whatever print it out or whoever's

buying it print out the installation instructions Supply it on the invoice on

an email whatever give it to the guys picking it up because typically guys are picking up the day of install they're

not acclimating right but regardless whenever they pick it up hand them that so they have it and at least you've done

that right you've at least given them the opportunity to read those installation and that'll really um help

with claims yeah hopefully yeah it's one of the things we push at go Carrera a lot is the the dynamic work order part

of that is you can add it at any point and make sure that that's brought to their attention so that the installer

knows the most updated installation instructions and and giving that to the in have the installer needs to know days

if not more time what they're working with and be able to read that stuff

another problem is there's so many so many things coming at the installer that they have to deal with and think about

you can't just do the job anymore you have 82 things going on that you try to

micromanage all of that and it can be difficult and then the installers expected to do all these things it's

easy to sit back and just say oh you didn't do this you didn't read this look it says over here 1116 by 1116 by 1116

you use 116 by 1116 by 316 or whatever the heck right I mean it can be so much

it's easy for somebody that's not in that world really that's down in there getting their hands dirty doing it to

sit back get her done get her done get her done get her done get her done got that pressure lines timelines so many

armchair quarterbacks out there and all these technical dudes and people I get it but you know what put yourself in

these guys shoes and women's shoes it's not easy they have a lot to think about and it's all in their lap if people make

the sale whatever ever it is that chain down everything falls into that Asar to

get 82 things right you know it just I think it's important yeah and I

think that's one of the good things like um that's going on right now because you see a lot of the text that are coming in

from the installation world and um some of these pris yeah some of these

certifications that I go to some of the reps are like all right we're talking about this right now but in reality we

all know that job sites aren't going to be ran like this and they actually go through different things like if the job

site was like this this is what I do and stuff like that so at least we have that

that we can kind of look forward to if if Keep On trending that way so one

thing we're finding as well with these residential floating products these spcs lbps and on on we see that a lot of the

problems are about that six millimeter and below so if you're up over that six millimeter product you know they have

that dimensional layer to it that stability layer that that they're being made with in order to make a a less

expensive product or cheaper you omit that layer right and so now you're down

with a product that's five 5.5 millimeters and this is where I see a lot of failures on a lot of with with

products right from temperatures you know sunlight and and be clear this is

in residential on your click flooring uh yeah that's that's that's exactly right

not I'm not talking about commercial I mean even commercially we we're seeing more and more even on the specs where

they have click flooring going in commercial spaces which yeah we try to lead them away from that right away

absolutely smartest thing you can do um you just you know we never lost money on a job we didn't do yeah dang I've heard

that somewhere right that's really what it comes down to you know

i000 square foot project they floated the commercial thing are you kidding me

so yeah and Rollin says you know they they sell it as it's so easy to install

anyone can do it and that's just when we talk about a Geo

commercial when we talk about floor prep right it's it's just I mean maybe the

the product could be that easy to install but we always talk about your base where are you starting from you're

starting from that prep right if you don't do that prep right you're already putting yourself far behind where you

need to be and this goes on this is for residential and Commercial that's right

are advertising everything as the DIY which kind of takes away from our credibility um as as professional

installers well it doesn't help that the box stores are are are saying free install we talked about that a lot you

know this free installation gimmick doesn't help our cause at all it devalues what the installer does and um

I don't look no one's actually believes it but somehow

it does work for B someone believes it someone believes it I can't I can't

hardly believe they actually think the GU there working for free like he's it's built into the price uh but at the end

of the day the the the uh Optics of it is not good for our industry in my

opinion but um I don't want any of the box stores to put a head out on me or anything just uh wish that they would

maybe approach it a little bit different technically we'd love their marketing department to come on here and tell us

why they do it right yeah yeah come on uh I won't name

any so I I think we spent like over a half hour on just the residential aspect

so commercially um I think over the years one of the the biggest things that

we've seen is the adhesive that goes underneath and we actually switched from

pressure sensitive to um essentially semi wet setting everything to get that

actual Bond going because you talk we talked about raw materials and everything that goes into the product

and then you just see plasticizer migration right and evaporation and and

these things they're they're going to shrink eventually so what what can you do to mitigate that it's that's what we

found our solution was was as soon as we started doing this it was less complaints we go to these jobs years

later everything's still together so I mean it's kind of um cheap insurance

right you're still using the same kind of the same products you're just using them in a in a slightly different

way yeah yeah I think I think that's a good point I also think that you know

concrete you know commercial brings in just mostly concrete and brings in

moisture testing and understanding the moisture parameters and understanding that even the best moisture test can be

off by about three two to three% in One Direction or the other when you're pushing these limits uh having having

some security on your your either recommendation of a full mitigation

system or a true wet set adhesive uh you know like a modified

siling kind of adhesive or at the very least educating the people that this is

the parameter remember this could be off 2 to 3% all of them say that all of the

uh the moisture testing so moisture comes into a big in a big way in

commercial uh because we don't have crawl spaces and stuff a lot of the slabs are slab on grade who knows if

it's a 50-year-old slab if there's any any there's likely even if it did have a

uh vapor barrier under the slab it's very likely that it's completely degraded to nothing and so you have to

take measures to protect both you and your client it's your client that's going to have to deal with this or

should get a 10 to 15E floor and so you

have that responsibility to uh you know and I'm talking more from the company salese perspective uh to make sure that

you're you're educating the client in a way that they understand that hey we

we're going to do moisture test if it's pushing the limit at all we're gonna we're going to need to do something about it that's that's right and I think

we we have to really emphasize time of install um moisture testing and what

does that mean right so you can you can do a calcium chloride or you can do a 2170 and C2 days before weeks whatever

that's just at that time gives you just yes a little snapshot like taking blood pressure on somebody right that doesn't

tell you everything it just tells you that aspect RH in the slab in that spot

RH in that spot right um so what we're finding is is a bigger

issue is going to be atmospheric conditions right your your your um your

dupoint and your ionic dupoint and what does that mean right so I know they're big words but let's simplify it so the

time of install you want to test that top gradient layer right of the slab

right you want to test that moisture content because that's what we're adhering to and that's most important we want

that Bond there so at time of install it's very important to put whatever uh

uh meter that you're using down and if that meter doesn't have a hygrometer built in you want to have that

hygrometer so it's going to tell you your ambian conditions specifically that dupoint and then you want to have that

infrared uh thermometer and you want to test the surface temperature right of the substrate to see are we within that

10 degrees Fahrenheit are we above that right you want your surface temperature 10 degrees above uh Fahrenheit above the

due point so if your dueo 60 you want that surface temperature to at least be

70 okay then we can really ensure that we're going knowledge yeah this is well these are

going to be new standards that you're going to start seeing soon as ANM but

also you're going to see manufacturers incorporating this more and more we already are in their in their guidelines

especially Coatings adhesive manufacturers things like that um so you'll look at there's there's a few

manufacturers they want five degrees usually it's 5 degrees Celsius 10 degrees Fahrenheit but what's most

important is time of install and documenting that using geotag using photos um because sometimes we can have

a do Point um and you can't always see that moisture on the surface you're

going to have a bond failure so yeah that's awesome that you bring that up I I think um even I just

learned a few little tidbits there so good to know um we're gonna have to

start wrapping things up I want to go around and say uh best approach for an

installer uh both residential and Commercial just best approach as they come in they're doing the lvp job uh you

know 20 seconds best approach thought process wise uh when they step onto a

job site or they accept a job let's let's start with you Jason

okay yeah uh first of all read the manufacturers guidelines uh secondly uh

read the manufacturer's guidelines okay that's where I'm I'm G to start with and

and and really knowing your products getting your for prep proper and then documenting your your

moisture awesome how about you Daniel yeah absolutely I any certification you

go to to they always end with read manufacturers spef unless you know

manufacturer specifications oversee anything that we say here right so

definitely check out the manufacturer's recommendations and just know that uh moisture vapor is always come up up

through the Earth regardless of what you think so moisture is going to be an

issue anywhere you go residentially commercially so always keep that in the back of your mind

Jose sounds uh sounds like that's pretty Universal so I'm just going to shift gears and make a little bit of a joke

here um the maybe we should just change it to the same way that doctors do it

right instead of going through all this rig and row of learning science and and and the science and nature of everything

we should just call it flooring installation practice that way uh can come after us for anything uh that's

really all I have you got get that you gotta get that right you got to get that mou floor in uh Insurance

then yeah I would say uh project conditions uh understand how those after

you've done what the gentlemen have mentioned here uh make sure you understand the environment and and what

you're being asked to do and that not to be fearful of pushing back on whether or

not you should be installing on that given day or in those given conditions um being being firm in your belief of

what you've just read and and having the um courage to tell the superintendent or

the job foreman or whoever is on your deal yeah the the site conditions are not up to par I've just called the

office and let them know but I can't install without the condition not not

and provide warranty without the conditions uh that then it puts it back on the store which in our case we would

write a letter state in all the potent we have a standard letter tells them everything that can happen if they don't

do something about the site conditions and very very rarely do they say go

ahead but then sometimes when they do that letter is prepared and they're signing off um this is not a simple sign

off like you accept that there's no warranty this thing has to be um

articulated in a way that you tell them not only what the potential problems are

yeah but what causes the you have to lay it out in in a total way before that

would hold up in court so if you are going to take that method or take that route uh make sure that I would consult

with an attorney to make sure that you're uh preparing a document correctly so I mean that we are the professionals

right and that's what it what it boils down to if you are that professional know all that's what that's what the

judge would say all right huddle crew Jason thanks for joining us today dude it was a great conversation I hope you

had fun um guys thanks again as usual it was a great podcast with you too and uh

we look forward to having Jason on again in the future let do it pass the word around get some people uh the more

viewership we get the more we can promote uh proper installation techniques so if you like the uh content

even if you don't like Daniel likes to say give us a thumbs down but give us a thumbs up comment tell us what we uh are

doing great tell us what where you uh what what you know topics you'd like us

to cover that kind of thing and and uh if you don't like it come on and talk to

us tell us uh what we're supposed to be talking about yeah yeah good good stuff

guys you guys keep it up man this is what we gotta do one love one love in the community spread and share the

love awesome well thank you guys and we'll see you next Tuesday and and we

are out

The Huddle - Episode 83 - TISE 2024 Recap

This week the guys break down their experiences from TISE 2024, from new developments in the industry, to seeing some old faces and meeting new ones.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

are we live what's up huddle crew what's

Up's all right guys very excited to see so we're gonna be uh yeah yeah I gotta

flirt with the uh with the new intro but um thanks for joining us today we're

going to come out of the gate with asking you to uh give us a like And subscribe wherever you're watching this

and um you know join us in the comments give us some some feedback today we're

going to be talking about Ty uh every time we we uh go to Ty you

know there's an episode before an episode after and you we we like to kind of build it up and then and then break

it down so Ty was freaking pretty awesome this year uh me and me and the

crew got got some uh extra special media passes so we were we were able to get

around and do our podcast multiple times I hope you guys enjoyed the overtimes uh that was extremely fun I

enjoyed this a t a ton and um it's why we do it every single week and so you

know last week I don't know how many hours we were on screen but it was a blast so a lot we were on screen a

lot on screen we were walking somewhere to be on screen it's like hey Daniel when are we going live oh right now now

okay now okay so guys what's uh you guys got back

okay acclimated back into life what's uh what's your biggest what's your biggest

takeaway from from the uh show co co I knew it our boy came back with

the old vid I got the co yeah he I'm pretty sure I got it from the yeah I'm

pretty sure I got it from the person that was sitting behind me on the plane because they were hacking up

and then and then me as a big brother I jinxed them I'm like yeah Daniel's gonna get sick they're just

like dang that ain't nice I know but I said it to only the

people I was sitting by I didn't really think it was gonna happen but it did and there you go you

jiny so what did you guys think of the um of the show

overall so uh very bus busier didn't it didn't seem like there was a hell of a

more people there there that was um that was a thing I I I feel like there was

more the installer base was larger than than normal um but I also feel like

there were there were more um Distributors there there were more there was just a lot more to see a lot more to

they were wall to wall this time that was crazy they didn't have any any of the areas uh sectioned off or anything

so they're back to full capacity yeah that was aive got our steps in that's for sure

yeah oh my goodness 100% oh my I don't even know how many steps how many steps there was from one

side of the other but I know that we were on opposite sides every

time so has warming up his food while he's watching my man Jorge so hey that

you know speaking of that the installation um awareness part of the

show was what kind of stood out to me there was freaking uh way more speakers on on the install

side of things um at wo made it back it was it was I made it down there too I

didn't get to catch up with him I brought him some uh some apparel for the next day but we got so busy it was so

hard for me to to to make time just to catch up yeah so the the installer uh the

installation kind of theme was was um more prevalent there was a lot of you

know speakers and speeches um and sessions about the

installation uh in various different ways about installation in general in

various different ways um one thing in particular that kept coming up was the

valuing of your labor uh I did a my talk was on that and then we witnessed uh one

of the panels was like very similar themed and then so you know having that

type of awareness if you're watching and you're an installer I think it it should show you that our largest show is

starting to kind of put some eyes on this um not just on the issues but also

on the awareness of how important it is to value your labor uh we got to have a

fun time with Paul trener says it's uh three4 of

a mile in the end well I walked that about four times so oh man

we were running back and forth stage yeah we go to the insulation competition oh we have to go back over here to do

this uh live thing in like 20 minutes let's walk all the way back yeah yeah

you know what next year though we're uh someone should just bring a whole box of helies and just sell helies there for

people who have to go back and forth yeah yeah it's definitely Mario says his legs

hurt he was a blast too that's the first time that I've gotten to talk to to Mario and that's one of the benefits we

always talk about on the show here is getting out there and getting to meet new people and getting to hang out with

your friends um I know Mario over social uh but I never really got to spend any

personal time with him and that was really cool he's a good dude if you've seen his work on um online you know he

does great you know great install and uh he talked about the importance of

getting certified and that was the other thing that I noticed was yeah how many installers that are certified you know

and a lot of them were not certified for a long time and then they got certified and they had these aha moments about how

much stuff they had been doing wrong and I think that that was part of the takeaway too and like you said about

that panel right it wasn't the talk wasn't supposed to be geared towards dollars and cents but

more towards the value of training and certification which also equates to

potentially more dollars and cents depending on how you uh you Market yourself and and and what you do and um

I think that that's where that panel kind of went off into left field a little bit but um it it does all boil

down to the same thing you got to have a way to it doesn't matter if you're on go Carrera

or if you're out on your own you're not on go Carrera the truth is is you know certifications matter that's what helps

with raising your Hammer rating uh it's also you know if if you can utilize your

CFI card to show you're a certified installer those types of things um you

know a lot of installers were talking about how they use those and leverage those things for those those assets uh

for you know better work uh higher paying jobs all this kind of stuff but

what comes out most is the pride you know the pride of knowing you're doing it the right way um one of I've said

this several times on the Huddle but one of the biggest things when we did a survey of installers and asked

non-certified guys why are you not certified the number one answer was we don't know how and the number two answer

was why would I get I already know we we had you know we had how many many guys

uh on stage talking about they had that same attitude and then they figured out

when they finally decided whether it was through a local chapter of CFI or one of

their buddies um you know uh convinced them to to to get involved and get

certified whatever but once they did they realized how much stuff they really didn't know that is a common theme we've

had guys at our company that we sent through certification that had the same thing that we helped go through

certification and they thought they knew everything you know it's they'd been doing it for 15 20 years and then they

go to a class and they're like they get you know a couple of certifications and they realize like damn I've been doing

certain things wrong this whole time and I it's a common thing I always hear it so I'll shut down anybody who says well

I'm I'm so good I don't need certification yeah well I've I've got too much proof from other guys that said

the same thing as you that have same for us they they changed

their tone once they got certified yeah I don't think we acted like we knew everything or said we knew everything I

knew that we knew quite a bit but there you still learn way more and it just

like oh w we were doing it like what yeah we've been doing it wrong but even uh if you look at when when that panel

you were talking about when Jesus was up there he openly admitted that he was

installing for 20 years the wrong way and he was like he got trained and he was just like I've

been doing it the wrong way this whole time and uh that's humility man that's

that goes a long way especially when when when you're willing to sit up there

in front of you know your peers like that and say I thought I knew until I found out I

didn't know well it's hard to deny it once you kind of come across it so I'm just it's the same thing my same Ploy

every week it just came through uh I should say our same employ every week is

go get certified find get involved with the different uh training entities and

go get certified uh we got some screenshots of this is one of the panels with Jorge and

and Jesus and Dave Garden John N J Jen zern that empty seat right there

that empty seat right there Dave really played into that one he was like and this empty seat right here is safe for

you yeah up here I think it's true you know you can get up there and and um but

I don't think many installers care about that it's usually about like what can I do how does this improve my my uh plot

in Life or how does it improve my my status or how does it improve my family

and all those guys talked about that you know I think Jen and um John Namba Jen

zern and John Namba did the kind of brought that out the best is

like it's more than just like we're John said it straight up we're here to make

money and that is what we're here to do I'm not in business to not make money folks right the flooring company you

work for is there to make money uh the installer that's working for you if you're a flooring contractor is there to

make money everybody needs to respect that and understand the best way you can do that is by being highly ra

now however you want to break that up whether it's on go career or whether it's like you know being highly

certified or highly rated on Google whatever the the the better reputation

the better skill you have those two things are the biggest uh you know

that's going to be the biggest driver of how much money you can can create for yourself and for your family so it gives

you it gives you Firepower for negotiations right like if you set yourself a part and and there's just it

just gives you that Firepower um it it creates uh I don't want to say a

persona but it it creates a a category that you can claim all your own um for

whatever for however many projects you have listed or if someone says oh that's a really difficult project you know the

only person I can think of that we can trust to do that it's going to be Mr Stewart you know Paul's goingon to be

the only one that we can trust I know that he's trained in and that that discipline I know that he's certified

and I know he's put in the work um and that's really what it does yeah so it was a pleasure to kind

of hear some of that another cool thing uh I noticed is the dang tile panels are

getting even bigger I think you know we I'm not they are slab I mean we we've

installed plenty of of you know 5 foot by 10 foot tiles but I seen eight by

12s o I didn't pull out a measuring tape but there was an 8 by 12 piece of

quarter inch gauged porcelain panel there so wow uh you know and the coffee

was good there Rollin at least in the media room it wasn't too bad we got to hang out with

Rollin too and go to a restaurant and uh yeah hey and I want to I'm sure we all

Echo this I want to give a special shout out to Rand for putting that dinner together thank you sir and and um

bringing all the installers together it was a fun night we got to eat at what was that place called it's his

his if I can get this Robert herine um Public House public yeah in the Tropic

Daniel just told me that it was uh closing down too so that's that's a bummer I mean as good I'm glad I was

able to experience it before that happened but yeah that was uh it was excellent

but yeah thank you Roland for putting that together and bringing bringing all the different uh people together and all

the installers hanging out and breaking bread and having good talks and I know

that uh there's a lot of familiar faces there so it was cool to catch up I think there's probably 30 people there or more

or more probably more yeah I know I finally got to meet some people face to face this this go around

even though my time is limited but that it was funny sitting across and then you recognize the voice and I was like Matt

yeah there there it is that's one of the there's a few people missing there but

there was you know who I met uh the Solace what's what's their first name um

Tina and James yeah that I got to hang out with them a little bit that was a really those really nice people oh my

God awesome people yeah so that's why you go to convention is to hang out with some people get to know some other uh

installers at different places United States I feel like when you know people like me it was uh Tina and James they

weren't able to get tickets to the show Knox event and good thing broke down

because we started walking the other way and I said we already checked in just let's go and they just followed me right

up there so sorry Dynamite it's it's only two people I

promise don't get him Thomas Daniel was uh Daniel was selling

tickets by the elevator SC scalp and Skyfall tickets

that was another fun event we um we went to was uh the Skyfall event what a view

yeah I'm this view right here man it was crazy that is that's an actual picture

taken from a phone yeah that was awesome man that's amazing it was a it

was a blessing to be there hanging out got to chat with like I said Eduardo and

and uh what was the name again James Solace

yeah yep yeah yeah him and his wife they were they were great and by the way if you're watching uh chop wood and carry

water the book that they recommended I've I've read uh since since I met them

at Skyfall great book great book recommend it to everybody chop wood

carry water uh so anyway that's um that's kind

of some of the stuff that happened Ty we also uh walked around there was a lot of

um really great new faces from a manufacturer

standpoint as usual you'll see a ton of lvt uh carpet hardwood tile but there

was more lvt manufacturers than you can shake a stick

at there was so many manufacturers I've never even heard of before it was crazy crazy yeah yeah I felt the same way and

I I don't know I would encourage everybody to vet manufactures before you

start getting their stuff make sure you know know the product know the

dimensional stability of the product and selling but uh there was a lot of really

cool looking stuff I I don't know the quality of the uh or the stability of it

none of us want to install something and then go back and be able to stick nickels in between it but um there there

was certainly some really cool looking uh new products and we got our steps

like this right here I mean there's that flooring right there on the left and then you know the backpack on the

right yeah baby that was Danel about the whole trip

right there running around from one place to another yes sir and and everyone loved

the backpacks I got stopped plenty of times just to ask about him you know that the U the cheesiest thing the

cheesiest thing that that we did was uh we put uh the 360 camera on my mom's Cadillac that she was driving around

yeah Mom's in the background there it was cool to meet your mom and hang out with her she's sure proud of you guys

yeah thanks everybody for treating her like family that's that's uh that's fantastic just kind of with open arms I know that uh she's a hard person not to

like right away because she's just so out there but um she she she does she she did good man worried about how busy

it was going to be but she called that Amigo or whatever it was her

Cadillac running into people so do you guys have any um uh

interactions with anybody that uh that kind of um you know is

memorable any particular interactions I only got uh I've got a couple but um you

know those types I stopped by I was able to stop by prony and talk to them to them for a while and it's actually um I

like it because it's a installer you know it he was an installer he created

prony out of necessity and now they've become you know to the size that they are and it's actually his daughter is

taken over and she's going to be the the the person in charge pretty soon

here uh she said she doesn't know how soon because you know it's hard for any of us to let go of what we built but

yeah um from what she said that you know they've got a bunch of ideas on how to

bring new products to Market and and stuff like that so I'm I'm looking forward to what they got to

offer and you know I gave her an idea too right there like boom here's an idea walk away mic drop can't say it can't

say it out loud um I fin got to meet some of metri

Square team in person the people that are actually helping me out all the time um did you get to meet

Steve I met him a couple times already but uh the guy who's been working with

me personally uh Brian Brian D is that that his name yeah that's the guy like

it made eye contact and we both knew right away hey that's the one that always

complains who me yeah that's the guy that always calls and said how come you guys can't do this

yet well that's just in your nature there Jose like you know give up give up

some ideas for someone you want to run with it I know I know what am I gonna do with the ideas anyway so man got too

many of them yeah I had a uh you know just all

the different interactions with several manufacturers and the different associations uh but kind kind of what

stood out to me was was the over and it sounds redundant but over at the

installation um uh competition when I was over there and

chatting with uh different people and and got to meet um what does he go by

his name's William but we got to meet a five Hammer uh rated installer on go

Carrera and there they very few uh there's only three or four of several

thousand you're absolutely right I forgot about Jerry it goes by Jerry yeah

and I forget his last name but yeah I found him on Facebook already too and and what a small world dude like you're

right and I talked to him and then we found out that we actually worked for the same company you know different

times but holy smokes and then he's just saying some things I'm like well why

would people do that he's like that's what I say we were like say it was so weird it was surreal to to have a a

mindset that kind of matched yours and it was a little creepy yeah he was so humble dude that's what I noticed was

for he didn't want any of the recognition yeah anything like that he

was just such a humble guy but at the end of the day he's one out of just a

couple in the entire uh you know go Carrera base right now

that is uh five Hammers and I'm G see if I can he showed me some of his work too

because that's what I wanted to see I like one I don't know I just when you when you find out somebody is is good at

what they do from their peers I want to see their work and I want to ask them how they how they did that what is your

process right like make me better make me better just give me some

information let see if I could load that up and show you he's he was cool we

talked for a lot longer than um than I

anticipated let me see if I can pull up here it is see if I can pull up this

picture yeah see if I can share it now I'm not sure I don't share a ton

but let's see uh let's see if I

can no I'm not good enough I'll figure it out guys anyway that was a pretty

cool conversation because he was talking like you at the end of the day he he didn't care he just wanted to know

everything he could so he could do the best quality work he could possibly do and be sought after uh from a install

standpoint and he's a very successful dude and uh it was cool to get to know him a little

bit I felt bad because the conversation that I had with him kept him away from his wife and she was ready to go she's

very proud of what he's done uh which is cool I think that is um you know one of

the things I took from that for sure was he don't he he he doesn't like to boast

but man she is super proud of him and as she should be we're sending we'll be sending him some of our uh some of our

gear to see if he can uh maybe get some pictures and throw them up on social for

everybody but yeah it was that and uh I got to talk to a couple of the industry

uh you know I'd say leaders who are trying to solve some of these you know

complicated issues we talk about around um around uh labor and installers and

and one of the things uh that was really cool was talking to um Shaw I got to

yeah there we go Jerry mcnight William Jerry

mcnight yep that's so cool five Hammer man

that's that's a big thing man yeah good for fantastic so

yeah all right so uh everybody made it back what's what's up

Jose is that Jesus can't can't forget

Paul thanks buddy we tried to make it to a lot of different different things guys they was

just going left and right and back and forth and we had to take breaks and stuff so yeah and get set up but we did

our best yeah so I hope everybody enjoyed the content from the show we

we've shot a lot we're releasing as As It Gets Ready I think some of it's been shot out there there's two yeah there's

two of them out there right now so we got and then the ties the live at ties

that that we did are on YouTube already and um podcast platforms what what' you

guys think of the belts for installer of the Year those are pretty

cool great touch yeah I asked Paul I was like Hey man can I Paul trer I was like

hey can I borrow that for a second he says no way no not until they uh award you know hand

it out I was like okay we'll we'll do our best there's the belts there's your two winners James and

Hassan were they both from Golden Coast flooring uh no

okay no the other guy that was from where Hassan was from didn't win gotcha oh you know what that was

Hugo well congrats to those guys for uh winning they had some major competition

if you've never been to the installation competition there it's there's a regional qualifier and then they get up

to Vegas to compete and it is not an easy feat um a

lot of these things are um you know a a

very complicated pattern multiple different materials even in the lvt they

had click they had uh the Chevron glue down and you had to do the hering bone

chevron pattern with your glue down you had to field cut all that stuff and put it all together and make all your your

uh had a s an oval in the middle you had to so I didn't see anybody scribing but

but 100% custom work that's all cust it was pretty cool to watch you know what

um brings up a good point here he says what really got me is when JY zern talked about how big box stores affect

us and when uh they when they advertise free installations I brought that up in

my uh in my speech as well is like first off we

know like the public should know that this stuff isn't free but why that

gimmick works I don't get it and to me it's it's a it's a gimmick sorry if I

piss off any uh Lowe's or Home Depot people out there but God it's so

frustrating to see that to me it just devalues what we do uh from an

installation professional standpoint she said it she said it correctly when she said you don't ever hear plumbers say

free installation electricians say free installation yeah you know you're paying for it like why hide it right but it's

the same gimmick as $9.99 or $10 you know what I mean it's perception so

there's something to it but she I think I think Jorge hit or you hit the nail on

the head on Jorge's comment is it's you know the people we're competing with as

an industry to get skilled labor they don't do that stuff they don't say you know electricians Free Labor you know or

plumbers Free Labor or HVAC people free labor no free roof install free drywall

it's like they don't do that and for some reason we do that and we believe that that's a a good way to go the the

box stores do anyway I don't I don't see that as much on the retail and good on you retailers for you know the the

speech I gave was retailers leveraging their labor to sell more saying we have

the best it will cost you a little more but you know we're not going to be back in six months to restretch your carpet

you know right that kind of stuff is like sell using the quality of your of

your labor not sell devaluing your labor it's like two completely polar opposite

ideals well it's it's the um the long-term value versus upfront cost

that's that's what it is so you're playing playing for the long game not the short game um you know one thing

that I I I didn't think about till a few minutes ago was What stood out is that uh Paul and I had an opportunity to meet

two other podcasters from the UK and sucks it sucks to say this but to hear

that they have these same problems that we have here in the

states I mean it's good hear yeah it's good to hear it but it sucks that this

issue that we have and we're facing it's not just us it's sounds like it's Universal and it's just like holy smokes

are you serious um and yeah we're gonna be doing a joint podcast with those guys

uh I think that'll be cool one of the ideas I I can't remember who who brought it up was like they're going to bring

one of their Master guys and we'll get one of our Master guys on and um let them chat see what the

different approaches to installation is and uh you know over the pond they do

some stuff different than we do here uh you know if you've ever watched Thomas with shero's um speak he talks about

when he first came to the US from I believe it was Germany um and uh

they self-level everything over there yeah and over here so all the conr yeah

all the concrete over there is just broom finished and then you go in and you self- level it and then over here

we're trying to finish it to a finished floor to finish substrate to accept

flooring and uh it's two totally different approaches and he he was blown away with our approach over here in the

US uh but that's also why you know some of the buildings over there last

for centuries and buildings over here last for decades and and and the amount

of red tape the difference uh as far as how our rules and and the products that

we have are regulated compared to over there too but I don't know the science

behind it or the reasoning behind it besides that somebody's making money off of regulating that

so well sure uh but if they if if it's a

better result you know yeah I'm all for it cool well uh we're

ending the I'm getting close to the end here um of the podcast the quick TI uh

recap we met some really cool people had some fun got to meet some people that we

know uh like you said uh got Kyle in the background got to know him a little bit

that was pretty fun yeah it was nice he any sister baby sister's up there

giving a speech she is that was that was Fearless

yeah and um yeah that was a good talk what is what are you doing there

Daniel I'm just showing all you got so many no it looked like you were throwing something in one of them

pictures probably Shane oh this I was recording oh okay I

gotta yeah the woman's conference was a good one too yes dudes can get in there

I think at least I was able to yeah we got in there we just sit in the back and try to stay lowke barely we barely got

in just sit in the back and stay lowkey it was fun though um like I said

the installation competition was a blast getting getting around and getting to hang out with

everybody Kevin and Robert look look Roberto right

there he was done guys I had a I had a a

a just a blast hanging out with you guys all week and um I hope that next year

more uh of our audience will get out got to meet some of you guys and it was like

I said it was a it was a fun time so come out enjoy the time get to know some

people and improve your skills uh again if you like to content and you like us

kind of going live in different locations when we're you know at a show or something we're going to be going to

the summit at the end of uh February I think it's the 22nd and 23rd which is down in Dalton Georgia we'll shoot shoot

from there and um you know if you like that kind of stuff you know give us a like

And subscribe it helps us to get out there a little bit more uh don't forget to give us some uh you know comments on

what you do and don't like about um the Huddle we are open to suggestions and if

you got a topic on your mind that you'd like to uh have us discuss live and

maybe even have you on here uh you know throw it in the comments and let us know

yeah don't be shy speak up here we go and if you guys anybody out there hasn't

made it to ties man make it uh put it on your bucket list come in increase your Social Capital man yeah come see is at

uh at the summit we'll be at the you know CFI FCI convention coming up in the

fall I believe it's in October uh so there's a few more shows that we'll be at so come join us with that gent got

else yeah baby we'll go out to dinner or something we did that with a lot of people oh my goodness I ate more food

that last week then I can remember you'll never forget d Tha Fong though right no that was a wonderful spot I

Gotta Give It Up to Daniel Gonzalez for his food selections yeah it was absolutely awesome my mom did say that

place he took me it was mah My mom did say that hey that Paul guy can really

throw that food down it's like oh I don't ever eat like

this I don't Paul and Kevin Kevin yeah oh Ben Ben got renamed Kevin

R coo over at go Carrera got renamed Kevin the on the trip so if you see him say what's

up all right guys you ready to break this thing off yes sir yes sir all right

guys see you next week all right see

[Music] you

The Huddle - OVERTIME FCEF - Labor Crisis vs The Future

On this bonus episode, members of the FCEF join together to talk about the importance of growing our industry and the changes we as an industry need to make to flourish.

Moderator: Jim Aaron - FCEF

Panelists: Don Roberts - Central Alabama Flooring, Piet Dossche - Dossche Holdings, Herb Upton - Shaw Industries, Will Young - Engineered Floors, Kelly Oberschlake - Mohawk Industries, Jennie Taylor - Taylor Carpet One

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

hey what's up family what's what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle

we're here every Tuesday at 1 pm central two sorry I'm in Vegas so I got my time

all mixed up 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career so uh real quick we're

going to be changing the intro we're just going to say all right crew huddle up so that's going to be our new intro

we're shortening it up um so today we're here live from TY here in Las Vegas uh

give a second for everybody to start join us here on social and watch our live stream but uh real quick I've got

some guests with me you guys know Rand he's been with us before I'm gonna actually pass it down

you know Daniel Roland just give us a brief intro on yourself sir I've been in the business since 1972

so they told me I'm the old guy5 years old oh am I supposed to push

something talk okay I was I was G I was gonna no any what can you say you know

I'm old but anyway I've been in since 1972 uh I believe in training I believe

in education of the installers doesn't matter uh you know we're in it together

and we're g to see what we can do with this uh program my man all right we got Mario with us

too Mario is going to give us a quick intro better known as the floor God give

us a quick intro Mario yeah you guys all know me as Mario Flor God you know the int for of the

group been in the trade probably since 1978 full-time finally got CFI certified

so I'm excited to be here awesome well thanks for joining us guys today we got a good good quick show for you this week

we're going to be shooting two overtimes to the Huddle so uh we'll be live

tomorrow be uh be cognizant that also we're going to go live just uh off and

on throughout the show so if you can't join us here at Ty we are going to try to bring Ty to you so Daniel's gonna be

walking around with the 360 camera off and on throughout the uh show and hopefully kind of bring that into your

living room for you today I wanted to start off uh with Rin

one of the things that is new well let me not say new it's a it's a long-term

Tradition at CFI but they are trying to revitalize and they want to rejuvenate the local chapters Rollins kind of uh

heading that up for CFI and I wanted to bring him on and just try to understand

a little bit about where where it all started what is what is CFI chapters why

are they uh why were they ever um created in the first place and kind of what's your vision what's cfi's vision

for bringing them back to life thank you Paul you know CFI when I

first started I'm I'm sort of going to cover a few topics I'm going to cover you know what chapters are when what

they started for what they're what they do for your local area and and how you

can be involved okay all right so we're sort of hit those topics you know when CFI started

years ago you know the internet wasn't around and so for it to be known it it

became up to the people so they had come into an area you didn't have chat rooms

correct we didn't we didn't have you guys you know so so you know it was

dependent on the trainers that went out once they you know did the certification

then they would help form a local chapter then it would then they moved on

well then the the local chapter's job was to then reach out to the community

of installers in the area and let it be known was the was the purpose of that

to uh get more of the uh local installer certified

CFI uh while in tand creating a community well basically that's what it

did and and truthfully if it wasn't for that back then I don't know when out have got CFI

certified C CFI started the chapter in Mya speak up you don't have to hold that

talk louder yeah it's so loud here either one too okay hey so CFI when

they came into our area uh you know I didn't go out there I I'd been doing it almost 30 years I'm I'm like why do I

need to be certified you know it it wasn't something that I even thought about well they formed a local chapter

the Maryland chapter at that time now it's the de Marva but at that time it was the Maryland chapter and I started having the chap

the chapter president at that time was Pat Fel uh he knew who I was uh some of the

re uh retailers Junior Harris that knew who I was they started saying ran you

you need to get involved you need to get involved you need to get involved you know so finally I said well you know

they said well you know you know I'm like ah why why why but then they presented it to me so it was a local

chapter it wasn't Main Headquarters that presented to me it was the local installers the local people that ran the

chapter that finally got it to where I understood oh okay this is a good

organization I can't tell you how important that is I mean the fact is is that the number one reason we did

surveys on this the number one reason that we um that that we get told when we

ask the question from the installation Community why are you not

certified the number one answer is I don't know how to which the local

chapters would solve the number two answer is they don't see the value like

why I'm already a good installer I already stay busy already get work M they don't understand the the damage uh

that that does to the industry in my opinion and the good that they can do if you are a good installer in getting

certified and uh you know learning how and plus at the end of the day every guy

that we have sent to certifications no matter how good they were they came back and they were like

dude I should have went a long time ago I I didn't know what I didn't know you

know what I'm saying so anyway that that sounds like uh you know the good thing

of the local chapters or the the approach right well the old the saying that CFI had for years and it's still

there but it was if it's to be it's up to me and that's what the chapters is if

it's to be it's up to me all right so they come into you know we come into your you come into your AA you start a

chapter you a few things it does for you it it it gives you a not you have a

network getting certified you have a broad Network all over that you can reach out to but it's always good to

have a local network that you can reach out to you know if if I open my mouth

and and say Hey you know we're going to do this building for America's bravest house one phone call to to my chapter

members and we'll have 20 guys come and knock out this house for for a building

for America's bravest tunel SS Foundation we've done seven of them and it was all done by the local chapters

installers so it it's a networking locally that you know we've had

installers that got into a bind they had a deadline and they couldn't make it they made a phone call and I guess what

whole bunch of us jumped in our trucks and headed out there and and you know you don't all have to be like us we said

hey we don't want to we just you get done we didn't ask for money we were a team we were we were a Band of Brothers

and Sisters You nowadays we got sisters but Brothers you know brothers and sisters that came in to that rescue of

that installer that got in a bind you know and so it's it's a local networking

that you have and you can reach out then you can reach out and the dealers in the

area start understanding what CFI stands for it helps bring that the the local

Distributors all of a sudden are seeing what CFI stands for and and so it's it

that has to be done locally headquarters can only do so much and they can only read so much when they see it being

preached in the local area it means more and then when that

happens installers that like you said well why do I need it you know like I

had a good reputation you know I was probably the biggest you know doing the work in the

area you the guy I was talking about you know and so you know it's like you know

uh why did I need it it really was a stamp on my on my career and then well

everybody likes to belong so right and then it El then then it started

elevating my career because then I got known more got known more by this no

more by that so it enhances everything else so a local chapter is is something

that you get involved and that's why we're going to go back to the where we're to stay on topic so that's what

CFI chapters were about all right it sort of started fading because of the

internet and and because it it takes a while and to to keep a strong chapter

going it takes some dedication and so we just saw that it was starting to fall

out of its way but we see the value of having this

so what is the I don't want to CCH off but I just want to ask what's the what's

the vision for the Rejuvenation of the chapters I think they you you've made a

good case as why the chapter should exist and and how they got started but

tell me what what is the vision for the rejuvenation and and like mechanically

what should people do in their areas well you know part of it was they started chapter you know and and their

hearts were in a good place they wrote a chapter guide and it was that thick and

you go read through it and you're like oh I can't do this I mean this is you know going take me forever so we

realized that we needed to simplify it and we made it too difficult to to to

have a chapter so it was just falling to the side so now we have a quick guide

it's it's it's on our site and they can contact me my info is on there what is

what is the website uh CFI CFI installers dorg yeah ww CFI install. org

and you can get that so but we have it's a we just came out with it it's now on the site it actually we had put it out

in out in print uh to the to the news media uh but you know it's a quick start

on how to start a chapter what a chapter is for uh given ideas of of what to do to

run a chapter and then we're going to walk you through it so if they call and contact me or they contact headquarters

to take talk to any of the other board members they'll be able to sit there and say okay this is what you need to do

and it's really it's it's the opportunity to be

able to take and have the the Huddle and and go Carrera and and that involved

locally instead of just naturally yeah all right because you know like you guys

you guys are reaching out to the local installers to be able to sign up and

have their ham ratings to help them this is a tool that can help you reach those

local installers to understand what the value of the hammer rating and and being involved in

you guys it also is a tool the local guys I mean you can go on and and watch

things you know on on the net and YouTube and all this kind of stuff but it's when that local guy comes up to you

and go hey this is great you know and you know that installer that's telling

you this is like you and is out there everyday h you know so they understand that that

that you know that's why you know I still get out and I'm I did aund and some yards with tear up and glue down

tear up and tax driping on a concrete basement and work till 10 o'clock the other night you know because I'm going

to be in there with the installers you know and and and that so they understand that and see that so this local chapter

you know we're you know our goal is for local chapter is to get it back up and

running get it to where it's it's easy to to get back involved it's an easy

trans you know transformation of of having it and understanding it and then

you know reaching from you know headquarters can only do so much you

know they're down in Dalton Georgia and you know we have people in in in Texas

and all that that or they can only do so much you need that local presence you

know and that's why and that's why if you look at we'll use the the uh the

Elks right Elks has their main headquarters but they also have them in

all small towns the VFW small towns they got VFW they got a headquarters but why

because they want to reach the local people and reaching local people is having local people there counting what

it's about amen I question got

sorry everyone we're kind of limited right now on microphones we hadit a little malfunction earlier um so what

type of committee does it take to run a successful uh chapter like what what are

you looking for from uh from the flowing industry from installers from certifiers

from trainers what what will constitute a successful chapter or the start of a successful

chapter you know the commitment is is not that bad you know I mean can be it can be what you make it but basically

you know we want to see you have a u meeting you know once every three months

you know uh and put on and it can be anything it can be have sherox in it can

be have it can have uh a glue manufacturer in uh you can have somebody

come and just talk about you know you could do a heat welding class you know

that you put out there and and and it brings them in so it's basically keeping the installers

engaged to education correct this is all education all right it's not telling

guys or women how to install it it's bringing in and keeping them and now

there's things that you're going to demo that to install but so you can have you can have a you can have a seeming day of

nothing but seaming pattern Goods you know stuff that's out there that you see

none but you're doing it in the local inviting the local and they don't have to be CFI certified to come it's open to

anybody it's open to salespeople my all my meetings that I put on are open to salespeople it's open to dealers it's

open to the installers that are out there that just want to learn so and

that helps build your chapter because now they're starting to realize so it's you're not you don't have a closed door this is not a CFI chapter that's only

CFI people that's belongs to the ch chapter it's CFI chapter putting

on education to everybody in their community and everybody in their

reach well education is uh obviously I mean every single week folks we talk

about getting educated uh you know if you if you want

to take it to the next level and get certified hey we we're big proponents of that the the floor God here just you

know mentioned that it took him a while to get certified himself we're all resisant

to it a bit because we got egos you know we think we're awesome and we are awesome but does everybody else know

that um you know that brings up the reason go Carrera is around is to help

you with your digital presence and your uh your like your profile is you online

uh we can't get away from it I wish wish uh you know a lot of us will say I wish we could go back to the good old days

but look we can wish all we want we ain't going back there nope um and that's why CFI is rejuvenating the local

chapters in a different uh at a a different approach a simplified format

um and so I encourage you to go to CFI installers org and check it out get a

hold of uh corporate I would assume right through there my num on on it also

get a hold of Rin and figure figure out how to you know get involved launch your

local CFI chapter he can at least get you in touch with the right people and how to do that I think it's a great

thing when you can have a national brand in CFI with local chapters the bottom

line is just like you said it needs that local presence and I and I see a comment on

here that it it says that um it's a cash grab right and I don't I don't

necessarily think that's right um you're looking at a chapter and we've talked about this

before you don't have to be CFI certified in order to join the chapter it's just like-minded people getting

together and and and doing it like that right I didn't see that now answer if it

was a cash grab I'd be happy no I don't how to say that anyway the trainings we

put on are free you know uh you know we we'll bring in the sherox we'll bring in

that mapay we'll bring in uh you know I mean we took Mill trips to to Mannington

to Armstrong to you know our local chapter did and none of this cost the

installer a cent so we're not saying there that this is going to cost them

we're saying this is something we're putting on because of our time because because we believe in this

industry and we believe in education so you know chapters don't charge so you

know so it's not a cash grab let me clarify something listen a c there's difference difference between a cash

grab and charging uh for a service and uh or or having a um a training that

costs money look you got to invest in yourself if you think it's a cash grab have to pay to uh invest in yourself

you're looking at this the wrong way um we're not running in Dillards and grabbing a bunch of suit coats and

running out the door that's a grab that's a that's a snatching grab that's a cash grab this is about improving your

uh you know your skills and capabilities and displaying them to the world and

regardless of of which industry you're in education and experience are the only

two ways you get good at anything um and so if you want to live on experience

alone good and and I hope I I I wish you the best but you're probably going down

the road of M or have already went down the road of of making a lot of mistakes

to get to get before you get to the point where you're any good um I think

it's uh I don't want to get too far into it but comments like those kind of get me fired up I think it's um it's a

little bit of a diss to the people who have invested their time effort and

immense resources to give opportunities to installers to improve

themselves I agree right because it I was once and I mean I'm gonna have Mario

say something after this because you said that you were in the industry for a really long time until you got certified and so were we and that that was the

thing right it's we weren't looking at the benefits that it was it was like what what can this CER ification do for

me when in reality it wasn't until we started getting into it when it's like what can I do to help the industry in

general right it's it's not always take take take right it's what can I give as

well to the industry and and help the industry out as a whole it's not it's it should never be what are you going to do

for me it's what can I do for everyone else at the same time and I'm gonna uh Jose wants to talk and I was gonna get

have Mario give his input on how he feels the getting certified has helped him since you know he's gotten

certified all right so so here it is I'm just gonna add on what Paul said too because he's right it does kind of get

you fired up look installers the industry doesn't owe you anything they don't owe you nothing but if you've been

making money for years and you have knowledge to share or if you've been making money for years off of projects

that are failing or you've been making money for years and feeding your family putting a roof over your head and you

still don't know 100% of of of what you're doing or the process that's where you go in and that's where all of this

comes into play right it helps by presenting to you an opportunity of educating yourself so that way you're

more knowledgeable to minimize the chances of failure to minimize the Chan of of of getting your name out there

under a derogatory mark because something didn't go right that's all it's doing industry doesn't owe you

anything but if you have something to show what the industry has provided for you then I feel like I feel like I owe

the industry something and that's why I'm here with you guys today so it's just I was in the same boat I didn't see

the use for it until I went once I went and attended it's just like I can't

believe I was so pompous in my head to not see the benefit of of not even just the certification just the training and

the information that was provided to me whether I paid for it or not it's just worth this weai in

gold all right well as you guys know I recently got certified but if it wasn't for social media I wouldn't have known

about surfaces or CFI it took me three years of begging of begging for them to

finally come out to the West Coast California so that I could be certified I did it for me and for nobody else but

I have a lot of knowledge now I want to bring CFI to the West Coast make it

stronger than it is it's weak right now so that's my goal of getting into this and hopefully

my knowledge I can help somebody so well if anybody's seen your work they know they know the

quality just from from that and the

certifications um or even trainings look the whole purpose is to just gain that nugget you know what I mean and I think

that the local chapters is about not only gaining knowledge and and and um

new skill sets but it's also about like getting involved in your community getting that's a way that you can be in

your trade and still get involved in the community you talked about one of the things you guys do for your local

community charity work uh and and how the the local chapter came together to

do that look we you if you just don't I don't want people to think so

selfishly like we owe uh we owe our not just our industry but like

like if you are just looking at in in any field what you can get out of it and

you have zero concern about what you're giving back um you know then I think

you're looking at it wrong so I I love Community I love the networking I do

this podcast with you guys because I I love hanging out and chatting I the industry's done very well for me I try

to find creative and innovative ways to improve the industry and to help us move

into the 21st century and you know so at the end of the day kudos to uh CFI for

the Rejuvenation of community the Rejuvenation of local chapters and I

appreciate you being on today Rolland I know you got to go to a speech here so yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna be heading out

uh but anyway what I want to say to to all the in installers all the people watching this is that you know

CFI was started by installers run by installers installers

that gave years and years of their time and effort in into the industry because

they loved the industry and they wanted to see the installation Realms um you know move forward and build build up and

we still have that stand today uh we still want to see the installer be

raised up to the highest levels possible in doing so we feel that getting back to

the local chapters getting them going again getting the installers locally and everything to understand you know what

we're all about you know that that's our goal and I I said uh reach out to me

anytime uh my name's pretty much uh and phone numbers plastered about anywhere they could find me yeah you're

pretty well I know about popular very vocal I'm not afraid to say anything

yeah so anyway so you know you know that's what it's about like I said you know it's you know CFI is for installers

buy installers and yes do do do we you know for the people to think money grab

yes do we need to have some finances to run an organization but so do you for

your work I don't want to spend too much and so but anyway uh thank you for

watching I'm going to be popping out of here all right thanks for joining us Rand and

uh hey appreciate it Rin rollin's got to go to to one of his uh pulse seminars

right now so we appreciate you coming on here and you know we that I mean we we

talked about that comment it was a I'm not discounting it at all right because that's how some people think so if

that's how you think that's how you're going to think it isn't until you actually start getting into the organizations that you actually change

your mind right and get involved and it doesn't have to be with CFI it doesn't have to be with these organizations just

has to be in your community get involved we're not asking you to to give money out to all these you know nonprofits

it's get involved locally go to your local Habitat for Humanity or something

and ask them what you can do get with your other installers and get with the Distributors that are in your local you

know area and say hey I have this idea will you guys sponsor some meals will you guys sponsor some drinks and it's

not a cash grab guys it's just getting together with your local like minded people and and seeing what you can put

together and building the community that way I mean I wish I could show you guys here we're we're you guys are are

looking this way to this backdrop right but we're looking at the installation competition and the amount of people the

community that is putting this together is amazing I mean I'm looking at we got

Jerry Miller we got Ray nette we got Steve abery we got Rod over here it's

it's a community and without people you know running these things things just don't happen so get involved

guys it doesn't have to be with one organization or the other just get involved

period yeah um speaking of innovation and you know getting

involved um you know a lot of this is

just realizing that no matter how you feel about um where you're at in your

your uh your career you can always do things do something more to to not only

help other people but bring up my my employees bring up some of these young guys teach them get them involved you're

getting involved as a leader will help them so these local chapters I think could be really good breeding ground for

new Young installers coming into into the industry to be to to to have a a uh

that feeling of owning you know like that Community feeling like being a Brotherhood uh that's what Rand called

it so um anyway so Rand had to to uh

bounce out from us I do want to give a quick shout out today uh if you're a

flooring company floring OS is launching today uh this is the newest it is a uh

brand new uh flooring operating system accounting the whole works it's the it's

very Innovative look go career is all about Innovation and staying on the

front lines all too often these operating systems are built in the 1960s and been built upon this is brand new

folks it's using the most uh modern software with the mo most modern uh uh

development uh we're going to do a uh little we're going to have the owner on tomorrow and or no sorry Thursday at our

podcast booth in one of the uh overtimes to give you more information but I

encourage you to look up and uh look into flooring OS as an operating system

that you might want to use for your flooring company uh we're certainly looking into it at steart and Associates

um with that I wanted to uh start to wrap this thing up I I really wanted to

say thank you Mario for joining us give give us give us give us your

best like um your your favorite like

quote or um I already know what it's gonna be give us your favorite quote whether

it's flooring or not my favorite quote

H We rise by lifting others you know and it has nothing to do with flooring it's

just life in general you don't know what the person next is going through they might be having a bad day a hi a hello

it's not giving them money it's just being there to listen have be a shoulder to cry on um what I wanted to bring up

is when I first came to compete didn't know nobody my first time coming to

services and these gentlemen took me in like family even though I was competing

against their sister and you know the floring community is really a family I'm proud to be a part of it awesome

anything to add to that um the only thing I want to add is um you

know the thing that I grew up saying which is very similar to what cfi's little thing is is uh don't talk about

it be about it right um you know that you know put your money where your mouth is that type of stuff sometimes you yeah

don't talk about it be about it you know you don't always have to put forth any of your personal finances or finances

period but at some point it does cost somebody some funs so if you don't like

what's going on and you don't like the how slow paced the change is help be a part of it um don't talk about it be

about it don't be the problem be the solution don't be the problem be the solution

that's awesome um I do before we jump off I do we you see the backpacks behind

us I do want to thank uh the sponsors that that got us uh going at the show on

on the backpacks uh we got QEP Roberts artx

Henry uh and and Divergent adhesives um they also did uh the summit right the

summit's coming up next month make sure you you register you know we'd love to see you out there go Carrera was talking

about exhibiting we want to we want to get get out there and you know Network even more and then uh floor tool store

we appreciate you guys thanks for uh sponsoring the backpacks we we really

really appreciate it and then um My Little Nugget is going to be a quote from the office with from Kevin it's uh

I love it it's many small time make big time so you you don't have to make huge leaps it's the little things all add up

to something big and I think that's what we're doing here especially on this podcast you know we started small we've

been progressing and and we we love everyone that's been commenting keep it up you know follow all of our socials

subscribe on YouTube subscribe to you know your podcast platform Apple Spotify

wherever you know search for us you can find us definitely let us know what we can do better we we thrive on that so we

appreciate you guys and I hope if you are going to be at this show come and see us we have stickers for you yeah I

know the floorida people love swag so come and grab some stickers from us all

right guys that's going to do it for this episode thanks for joining us remember we are going to be um we are

going to be live off and on Daniel will be I I'll post some stuff to the social medias I'll create some events yeah so

if you can't be here with us we're going to try like I said earlier bring it to your house um and then we're shooting

tomorrow and Thursday Thursday will be in the actual podcast booth and if you're at the show come see us we might

be able to get you on the the podcast on Thursday and we are going to have

floring OS on there as well so I want to thank everybody for joining us today thanks for all the comments good or bad

I love to hear from the community we all do we want to hear uh from you guys so

like Daniel just said please consider giving us a like And subscribe thumbs up thumbs down whatever you think but uh

hey thanks for joining us love you guys we're [Music]

out

The Huddle - Episode 82 - Live from TISE 2024

This week the guys are in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada and are joined by Roland Thompson and The FLORGOD himself to discuss the trade show, getting trained, and more.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

hey what's up family what's what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle

we're here every Tuesday at 1 pm central two sorry I'm in Vegas so I got my time

all mixed up 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career so uh real quick we're

going to be changing the intro we're just going to say all right crew huddle up so that's going to be our new intro

we're shortening it up um so today we're here live from TY here in Las Vegas uh

give a second for everybody to start join us here on social and watch our live stream but uh real quick I've got

some guests with me you guys know Rand he's been with us before I'm gonna actually pass it down

you know Daniel Roland just give us a brief intro on yourself sir I've been in the business since 1972

so they told me I'm the old guy5 years old oh am I supposed to push

something talk okay I was I was G I was gonna no any what can you say you know

I'm old but anyway I've been in since 1972 uh I believe in training I believe

in education of the installers doesn't matter uh you know we're in it together

and we're g to see what we can do with this uh program my man all right we got Mario with us

too Mario is going to give us a quick intro better known as the floor God give

us a quick intro Mario yeah you guys all know me as Mario Flor God you know the int for of the

group been in the trade probably since 1978 full-time finally got CFI certified

so I'm excited to be here awesome well thanks for joining us guys today we got a good good quick show for you this week

we're going to be shooting two overtimes to the Huddle so uh we'll be live

tomorrow be uh be cognizant that also we're going to go live just uh off and

on throughout the show so if you can't join us here at Ty we are going to try to bring Ty to you so Daniel's gonna be

walking around with the 360 camera off and on throughout the uh show and hopefully kind of bring that into your

living room for you today I wanted to start off uh with Rin

one of the things that is new well let me not say new it's a it's a long-term

Tradition at CFI but they are trying to revitalize and they want to rejuvenate the local chapters Rollins kind of uh

heading that up for CFI and I wanted to bring him on and just try to understand

a little bit about where where it all started what is what is CFI chapters why

are they uh why were they ever um created in the first place and kind of what's your vision what's cfi's vision

for bringing them back to life thank you Paul you know CFI when I

first started I'm I'm sort of going to cover a few topics I'm going to cover you know what chapters are when what

they started for what they're what they do for your local area and and how you

can be involved okay all right so we're sort of hit those topics you know when CFI started

years ago you know the internet wasn't around and so for it to be known it it

became up to the people so they had come into an area you didn't have chat rooms

correct we didn't we didn't have you guys you know so so you know it was

dependent on the trainers that went out once they you know did the certification

then they would help form a local chapter then it would then they moved on

well then the the local chapter's job was to then reach out to the community

of installers in the area and let it be known was the was the purpose of that

to uh get more of the uh local installer certified

CFI uh while in tand creating a community well basically that's what it

did and and truthfully if it wasn't for that back then I don't know when out have got CFI

certified C CFI started the chapter in Mya speak up you don't have to hold that

talk louder yeah it's so loud here either one too okay hey so CFI when

they came into our area uh you know I didn't go out there I I'd been doing it almost 30 years I'm I'm like why do I

need to be certified you know it it wasn't something that I even thought about well they formed a local chapter

the Maryland chapter at that time now it's the de Marva but at that time it was the Maryland chapter and I started having the chap

the chapter president at that time was Pat Fel uh he knew who I was uh some of the

re uh retailers Junior Harris that knew who I was they started saying ran you

you need to get involved you need to get involved you need to get involved you know so finally I said well you know

they said well you know you know I'm like ah why why why but then they presented it to me so it was a local

chapter it wasn't Main Headquarters that presented to me it was the local installers the local people that ran the

chapter that finally got it to where I understood oh okay this is a good

organization I can't tell you how important that is I mean the fact is is that the number one reason we did

surveys on this the number one reason that we um that that we get told when we

ask the question from the installation Community why are you not

certified the number one answer is I don't know how to which the local

chapters would solve the number two answer is they don't see the value like

why I'm already a good installer I already stay busy already get work M they don't understand the the damage uh

that that does to the industry in my opinion and the good that they can do if you are a good installer in getting

certified and uh you know learning how and plus at the end of the day every guy

that we have sent to certifications no matter how good they were they came back and they were like

dude I should have went a long time ago I I didn't know what I didn't know you

know what I'm saying so anyway that that sounds like uh you know the good thing

of the local chapters or the the approach right well the old the saying that CFI had for years and it's still

there but it was if it's to be it's up to me and that's what the chapters is if

it's to be it's up to me all right so they come into you know we come into your you come into your AA you start a

chapter you a few things it does for you it it it gives you a not you have a

network getting certified you have a broad Network all over that you can reach out to but it's always good to

have a local network that you can reach out to you know if if I open my mouth

and and say Hey you know we're going to do this building for America's bravest house one phone call to to my chapter

members and we'll have 20 guys come and knock out this house for for a building

for America's bravest tunel SS Foundation we've done seven of them and it was all done by the local chapters

installers so it it's a networking locally that you know we've had

installers that got into a bind they had a deadline and they couldn't make it they made a phone call and I guess what

whole bunch of us jumped in our trucks and headed out there and and you know you don't all have to be like us we said

hey we don't want to we just you get done we didn't ask for money we were a team we were we were a Band of Brothers

and Sisters You nowadays we got sisters but Brothers you know brothers and sisters that came in to that rescue of

that installer that got in a bind you know and so it's it's a local networking

that you have and you can reach out then you can reach out and the dealers in the

area start understanding what CFI stands for it helps bring that the the local

Distributors all of a sudden are seeing what CFI stands for and and so it's it

that has to be done locally headquarters can only do so much and they can only read so much when they see it being

preached in the local area it means more and then when that

happens installers that like you said well why do I need it you know like I

had a good reputation you know I was probably the biggest you know doing the work in the

area you the guy I was talking about you know and so you know it's like you know

uh why did I need it it really was a stamp on my on my career and then well

everybody likes to belong so right and then it El then then it started

elevating my career because then I got known more got known more by this no

more by that so it enhances everything else so a local chapter is is something

that you get involved and that's why we're going to go back to the where we're to stay on topic so that's what

CFI chapters were about all right it sort of started fading because of the

internet and and because it it takes a while and to to keep a strong chapter

going it takes some dedication and so we just saw that it was starting to fall

out of its way but we see the value of having this

so what is the I don't want to CCH off but I just want to ask what's the what's

the vision for the Rejuvenation of the chapters I think they you you've made a

good case as why the chapter should exist and and how they got started but

tell me what what is the vision for the rejuvenation and and like mechanically

what should people do in their areas well you know part of it was they started chapter you know and and their

hearts were in a good place they wrote a chapter guide and it was that thick and

you go read through it and you're like oh I can't do this I mean this is you know going take me forever so we

realized that we needed to simplify it and we made it too difficult to to to

have a chapter so it was just falling to the side so now we have a quick guide

it's it's it's on our site and they can contact me my info is on there what is

what is the website uh CFI CFI installers dorg yeah ww CFI install. org

and you can get that so but we have it's a we just came out with it it's now on the site it actually we had put it out

in out in print uh to the to the news media uh but you know it's a quick start

on how to start a chapter what a chapter is for uh given ideas of of what to do to

run a chapter and then we're going to walk you through it so if they call and contact me or they contact headquarters

to take talk to any of the other board members they'll be able to sit there and say okay this is what you need to do

and it's really it's it's the opportunity to be

able to take and have the the Huddle and and go Carrera and and that involved

locally instead of just naturally yeah all right because you know like you guys

you guys are reaching out to the local installers to be able to sign up and

have their ham ratings to help them this is a tool that can help you reach those

local installers to understand what the value of the hammer rating and and being involved in

you guys it also is a tool the local guys I mean you can go on and and watch

things you know on on the net and YouTube and all this kind of stuff but it's when that local guy comes up to you

and go hey this is great you know and you know that installer that's telling

you this is like you and is out there everyday h you know so they understand that that

that you know that's why you know I still get out and I'm I did aund and some yards with tear up and glue down

tear up and tax driping on a concrete basement and work till 10 o'clock the other night you know because I'm going

to be in there with the installers you know and and and that so they understand that and see that so this local chapter

you know we're you know our goal is for local chapter is to get it back up and

running get it to where it's it's easy to to get back involved it's an easy

trans you know transformation of of having it and understanding it and then

you know reaching from you know headquarters can only do so much you

know they're down in Dalton Georgia and you know we have people in in in Texas

and all that that or they can only do so much you need that local presence you

know and that's why and that's why if you look at we'll use the the uh the

Elks right Elks has their main headquarters but they also have them in

all small towns the VFW small towns they got VFW they got a headquarters but why

because they want to reach the local people and reaching local people is having local people there counting what

it's about amen I question got

sorry everyone we're kind of limited right now on microphones we hadit a little malfunction earlier um so what

type of committee does it take to run a successful uh chapter like what what are

you looking for from uh from the flowing industry from installers from certifiers

from trainers what what will constitute a successful chapter or the start of a successful

chapter you know the commitment is is not that bad you know I mean can be it can be what you make it but basically

you know we want to see you have a u meeting you know once every three months

you know uh and put on and it can be anything it can be have sherox in it can

be have it can have uh a glue manufacturer in uh you can have somebody

come and just talk about you know you could do a heat welding class you know

that you put out there and and and it brings them in so it's basically keeping the installers

engaged to education correct this is all education all right it's not telling

guys or women how to install it it's bringing in and keeping them and now

there's things that you're going to demo that to install but so you can have you can have a you can have a seeming day of

nothing but seaming pattern Goods you know stuff that's out there that you see

none but you're doing it in the local inviting the local and they don't have to be CFI certified to come it's open to

anybody it's open to salespeople my all my meetings that I put on are open to salespeople it's open to dealers it's

open to the installers that are out there that just want to learn so and

that helps build your chapter because now they're starting to realize so it's you're not you don't have a closed door this is not a CFI chapter that's only

CFI people that's belongs to the ch chapter it's CFI chapter putting

on education to everybody in their community and everybody in their

reach well education is uh obviously I mean every single week folks we talk

about getting educated uh you know if you if you want

to take it to the next level and get certified hey we we're big proponents of that the the floor God here just you

know mentioned that it took him a while to get certified himself we're all resisant

to it a bit because we got egos you know we think we're awesome and we are awesome but does everybody else know

that um you know that brings up the reason go Carrera is around is to help

you with your digital presence and your uh your like your profile is you online

uh we can't get away from it I wish wish uh you know a lot of us will say I wish we could go back to the good old days

but look we can wish all we want we ain't going back there nope um and that's why CFI is rejuvenating the local

chapters in a different uh at a a different approach a simplified format

um and so I encourage you to go to CFI installers org and check it out get a

hold of uh corporate I would assume right through there my num on on it also

get a hold of Rin and figure figure out how to you know get involved launch your

local CFI chapter he can at least get you in touch with the right people and how to do that I think it's a great

thing when you can have a national brand in CFI with local chapters the bottom

line is just like you said it needs that local presence and I and I see a comment on

here that it it says that um it's a cash grab right and I don't I don't

necessarily think that's right um you're looking at a chapter and we've talked about this

before you don't have to be CFI certified in order to join the chapter it's just like-minded people getting

together and and and doing it like that right I didn't see that now answer if it

was a cash grab I'd be happy no I don't how to say that anyway the trainings we

put on are free you know uh you know we we'll bring in the sherox we'll bring in

that mapay we'll bring in uh you know I mean we took Mill trips to to Mannington

to Armstrong to you know our local chapter did and none of this cost the

installer a cent so we're not saying there that this is going to cost them

we're saying this is something we're putting on because of our time because because we believe in this

industry and we believe in education so you know chapters don't charge so you

know so it's not a cash grab let me clarify something listen a c there's difference difference between a cash

grab and charging uh for a service and uh or or having a um a training that

costs money look you got to invest in yourself if you think it's a cash grab have to pay to uh invest in yourself

you're looking at this the wrong way um we're not running in Dillards and grabbing a bunch of suit coats and

running out the door that's a grab that's a that's a snatching grab that's a cash grab this is about improving your

uh you know your skills and capabilities and displaying them to the world and

regardless of of which industry you're in education and experience are the only

two ways you get good at anything um and so if you want to live on experience

alone good and and I hope I I I wish you the best but you're probably going down

the road of M or have already went down the road of of making a lot of mistakes

to get to get before you get to the point where you're any good um I think

it's uh I don't want to get too far into it but comments like those kind of get me fired up I think it's um it's a

little bit of a diss to the people who have invested their time effort and

immense resources to give opportunities to installers to improve

themselves I agree right because it I was once and I mean I'm gonna have Mario

say something after this because you said that you were in the industry for a really long time until you got certified and so were we and that that was the

thing right it's we weren't looking at the benefits that it was it was like what what can this CER ification do for

me when in reality it wasn't until we started getting into it when it's like what can I do to help the industry in

general right it's it's not always take take take right it's what can I give as

well to the industry and and help the industry out as a whole it's not it's it should never be what are you going to do

for me it's what can I do for everyone else at the same time and I'm gonna uh Jose wants to talk and I was gonna get

have Mario give his input on how he feels the getting certified has helped him since you know he's gotten

certified all right so so here it is I'm just gonna add on what Paul said too because he's right it does kind of get

you fired up look installers the industry doesn't owe you anything they don't owe you nothing but if you've been

making money for years and you have knowledge to share or if you've been making money for years off of projects

that are failing or you've been making money for years and feeding your family putting a roof over your head and you

still don't know 100% of of of what you're doing or the process that's where you go in and that's where all of this

comes into play right it helps by presenting to you an opportunity of educating yourself so that way you're

more knowledgeable to minimize the chances of failure to minimize the Chan of of of getting your name out there

under a derogatory mark because something didn't go right that's all it's doing industry doesn't owe you

anything but if you have something to show what the industry has provided for you then I feel like I feel like I owe

the industry something and that's why I'm here with you guys today so it's just I was in the same boat I didn't see

the use for it until I went once I went and attended it's just like I can't

believe I was so pompous in my head to not see the benefit of of not even just the certification just the training and

the information that was provided to me whether I paid for it or not it's just worth this weai in

gold all right well as you guys know I recently got certified but if it wasn't for social media I wouldn't have known

about surfaces or CFI it took me three years of begging of begging for them to

finally come out to the West Coast California so that I could be certified I did it for me and for nobody else but

I have a lot of knowledge now I want to bring CFI to the West Coast make it

stronger than it is it's weak right now so that's my goal of getting into this and hopefully

my knowledge I can help somebody so well if anybody's seen your work they know they know the

quality just from from that and the

certifications um or even trainings look the whole purpose is to just gain that nugget you know what I mean and I think

that the local chapters is about not only gaining knowledge and and and um

new skill sets but it's also about like getting involved in your community getting that's a way that you can be in

your trade and still get involved in the community you talked about one of the things you guys do for your local

community charity work uh and and how the the local chapter came together to

do that look we you if you just don't I don't want people to think so

selfishly like we owe uh we owe our not just our industry but like

like if you are just looking at in in any field what you can get out of it and

you have zero concern about what you're giving back um you know then I think

you're looking at it wrong so I I love Community I love the networking I do

this podcast with you guys because I I love hanging out and chatting I the industry's done very well for me I try

to find creative and innovative ways to improve the industry and to help us move

into the 21st century and you know so at the end of the day kudos to uh CFI for

the Rejuvenation of community the Rejuvenation of local chapters and I

appreciate you being on today Rolland I know you got to go to a speech here so yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna be heading out

uh but anyway what I want to say to to all the in installers all the people watching this is that you know

CFI was started by installers run by installers installers

that gave years and years of their time and effort in into the industry because

they loved the industry and they wanted to see the installation Realms um you know move forward and build build up and

we still have that stand today uh we still want to see the installer be

raised up to the highest levels possible in doing so we feel that getting back to

the local chapters getting them going again getting the installers locally and everything to understand you know what

we're all about you know that that's our goal and I I said uh reach out to me

anytime uh my name's pretty much uh and phone numbers plastered about anywhere they could find me yeah you're

pretty well I know about popular very vocal I'm not afraid to say anything

yeah so anyway so you know you know that's what it's about like I said you know it's you know CFI is for installers

buy installers and yes do do do we you know for the people to think money grab

yes do we need to have some finances to run an organization but so do you for

your work I don't want to spend too much and so but anyway uh thank you for

watching I'm going to be popping out of here all right thanks for joining us Rand and

uh hey appreciate it Rin rollin's got to go to to one of his uh pulse seminars

right now so we appreciate you coming on here and you know we that I mean we we

talked about that comment it was a I'm not discounting it at all right because that's how some people think so if

that's how you think that's how you're going to think it isn't until you actually start getting into the organizations that you actually change

your mind right and get involved and it doesn't have to be with CFI it doesn't have to be with these organizations just

has to be in your community get involved we're not asking you to to give money out to all these you know nonprofits

it's get involved locally go to your local Habitat for Humanity or something

and ask them what you can do get with your other installers and get with the Distributors that are in your local you

know area and say hey I have this idea will you guys sponsor some meals will you guys sponsor some drinks and it's

not a cash grab guys it's just getting together with your local like minded people and and seeing what you can put

together and building the community that way I mean I wish I could show you guys here we're we're you guys are are

looking this way to this backdrop right but we're looking at the installation competition and the amount of people the

community that is putting this together is amazing I mean I'm looking at we got

Jerry Miller we got Ray nette we got Steve abery we got Rod over here it's

it's a community and without people you know running these things things just don't happen so get involved

guys it doesn't have to be with one organization or the other just get involved

period yeah um speaking of innovation and you know getting

involved um you know a lot of this is

just realizing that no matter how you feel about um where you're at in your

your uh your career you can always do things do something more to to not only

help other people but bring up my my employees bring up some of these young guys teach them get them involved you're

getting involved as a leader will help them so these local chapters I think could be really good breeding ground for

new Young installers coming into into the industry to be to to to have a a uh

that feeling of owning you know like that Community feeling like being a Brotherhood uh that's what Rand called

it so um anyway so Rand had to to uh

bounce out from us I do want to give a quick shout out today uh if you're a

flooring company floring OS is launching today uh this is the newest it is a uh

brand new uh flooring operating system accounting the whole works it's the it's

very Innovative look go career is all about Innovation and staying on the

front lines all too often these operating systems are built in the 1960s and been built upon this is brand new

folks it's using the most uh modern software with the mo most modern uh uh

development uh we're going to do a uh little we're going to have the owner on tomorrow and or no sorry Thursday at our

podcast booth in one of the uh overtimes to give you more information but I

encourage you to look up and uh look into flooring OS as an operating system

that you might want to use for your flooring company uh we're certainly looking into it at steart and Associates

um with that I wanted to uh start to wrap this thing up I I really wanted to

say thank you Mario for joining us give give us give us give us your

best like um your your favorite like

quote or um I already know what it's gonna be give us your favorite quote whether

it's flooring or not my favorite quote

H We rise by lifting others you know and it has nothing to do with flooring it's

just life in general you don't know what the person next is going through they might be having a bad day a hi a hello

it's not giving them money it's just being there to listen have be a shoulder to cry on um what I wanted to bring up

is when I first came to compete didn't know nobody my first time coming to

services and these gentlemen took me in like family even though I was competing

against their sister and you know the floring community is really a family I'm proud to be a part of it awesome

anything to add to that um the only thing I want to add is um you

know the thing that I grew up saying which is very similar to what cfi's little thing is is uh don't talk about

it be about it right um you know that you know put your money where your mouth is that type of stuff sometimes you yeah

don't talk about it be about it you know you don't always have to put forth any of your personal finances or finances

period but at some point it does cost somebody some funs so if you don't like

what's going on and you don't like the how slow paced the change is help be a part of it um don't talk about it be

about it don't be the problem be the solution don't be the problem be the solution

that's awesome um I do before we jump off I do we you see the backpacks behind

us I do want to thank uh the sponsors that that got us uh going at the show on

on the backpacks uh we got QEP Roberts artx

Henry uh and and Divergent adhesives um they also did uh the summit right the

summit's coming up next month make sure you you register you know we'd love to see you out there go Carrera was talking

about exhibiting we want to we want to get get out there and you know Network even more and then uh floor tool store

we appreciate you guys thanks for uh sponsoring the backpacks we we really

really appreciate it and then um My Little Nugget is going to be a quote from the office with from Kevin it's uh

I love it it's many small time make big time so you you don't have to make huge leaps it's the little things all add up

to something big and I think that's what we're doing here especially on this podcast you know we started small we've

been progressing and and we we love everyone that's been commenting keep it up you know follow all of our socials

subscribe on YouTube subscribe to you know your podcast platform Apple Spotify

wherever you know search for us you can find us definitely let us know what we can do better we we thrive on that so we

appreciate you guys and I hope if you are going to be at this show come and see us we have stickers for you yeah I

know the floorida people love swag so come and grab some stickers from us all

right guys that's going to do it for this episode thanks for joining us remember we are going to be um we are

going to be live off and on Daniel will be I I'll post some stuff to the social medias I'll create some events yeah so

if you can't be here with us we're going to try like I said earlier bring it to your house um and then we're shooting

tomorrow and Thursday Thursday will be in the actual podcast booth and if you're at the show come see us we might

be able to get you on the the podcast on Thursday and we are going to have

floring OS on there as well so I want to thank everybody for joining us today thanks for all the comments good or bad

I love to hear from the community we all do we want to hear uh from you guys so

like Daniel just said please consider giving us a like And subscribe thumbs up thumbs down whatever you think but uh

hey thanks for joining us love you guys we're [Music]

out

The Huddle - Episode 81 - Networking

This week as the guys prep to attend TISE in Las Vegas, NV, they discuss the importance and different ways that an installer can network to grow their business and make meaningful connections in their community.

Will we see you at the show? Make sure to get with us and say hi!

Congratulations again to the winner of the Forward Progress Scholarship Jess Wilson!!!!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle technical difficulty sorry for

being a little bit late here but uh as you know we get together every Tuesday

at 3 pm Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career I hope it's warm wherever you

guys are at we got a sparse two degrees or three degrees here

little bit of snow on the ground what about you fellas up there in Michigan we got dumped on yeah yeah we got little

more than a little bit of snow it's uh it's pretty dangerous out on the roads right

now well be careful out there family um today we're g to be talking about

networking um a lot of the the podcast in the past

we've discuss this I mean it's kind of a com it's almost as common thread as

communication but uh we're going to be talking about the power of networking uh

networking in general and um as we're coming up

on Ty this next week so again uh Ty starts on let's see when does it

actually start starts on that Wednesday starts on 22nd right nope 24

24th 24th is when it starts so if you are

looking at uh a fun trip come to Vegas and join us at TI uh if you're going to

be there please stop by and come see us hey Kathy thanks for joining um so it's about networking

growing and improving your business and it starts with networking because if you're a new business owner or you're a

new into flooring uh whether it's like um a new installer or you're you're

starting out your flooring company networking is key these gentlemen up in Grand Rapids do a ton of networking

locally and then you have your National networking and Industry networking um so

you guys do some chamber events and different things like that a lot of that

gets a A I think a bit of a negative skew um you guys have enjoyed your

chamber time and and uh yeah and and gotten a lot of value out of it haven't

you yeah 100% I mean I I don't anytime you're putting yourself out there right

you're putting your brand out there you're putting your business name out there whatever you're doing you're putting it out there and you can't you

can't put yourself out there by sitting sitting in the in in the house on the couch you got to get out you got to meet

people who got to shake a hand um especially now after covid um meeting in

person is so much more valuable than text message or email or socials like this

right face to face is priceless yeah I tell you what Co gave you a new um appreciation for getting

together I remember the first uh the first TI first uh convention after covid was

one of those deals where everybody was so happy to see one another they were hugging and stuff it was crazy

it oh it was crazy uh so Rand uh stated that everybody needs to

go to the seminars on the 23rd so look up at on Ty's website just Google Ty uh

2024 and you'll find it and um there's a

lot of very valuable seminars on the 23rd I know rollin's running one of them

I believe uh so is he should as he should on

networking uh yeah getting together with your local community is always valuable I've I've gotten a lot of opportunity

over the years just by being out and getting to know people I'm an introverted person uh naturally it just

is how I am and it's one of those deals

that I've had to overcome over my lifetime I I I've got to be willing to

put myself out there and go go talk to people and speak in front of people and that is a muscle I will tell you that

you need to start working to build and the local chamber is a great place to

cut your teeth at doing that then these you know we we're always

pushing convention U CFI fci's conventions both

of those and then we did it jointly last year so I'm hoping they do that again this year um and then

uh you know the networking and uh the the friendships that you're going to

build at Ty and at these events specifically CFI if you're an installer

that CFI FCI is that that's a really fun event if you're an installer to get to

so you know um yeah so networking is hugely important I know it sounds like

pretty Elementary but so many people are scared to get to put themselves out there and I

was one of them so um I can tell you that the more you work that muscle and I

believe it's a muscle it's not some disability that you can't overcome uh it's a muscle you got to just be willing

to to uh start exercising so tell me about easier does get a lot

easier I mean look at Daniel Daniel's semi introvert right pretty

introverted he just doesn't doesn't like to have conversations if they don't need to be had well we got you anytime we

need somebody to go break some ice we just said 100% that's what I

do H quick shout out to David Barons for joining and uh commenting thanks for

joining us um so yeah tell me tell me some times

where you guys may have you know seen some actual growth from Network

I've got some some stories to share around that regard as well so growth are

we are we talking more personal growth we talking business growth we talking you know just just in well when we're

talking about in uh when we're when we're talking about you being a entrepreneur or your own business they

go hand inand anymore don't they I mean there's not a way to to separate your personal or business kind of growth I

think they're so tied to one another um you know if you are out and about in a

personal Manner and you get friends I've I've seen it happen both ways friends of mine have hired me to do work for them

and build things for them and then friends of mine have joined businesses

with me um and then business associates I've become really good friends with so

it gets into a muddled kind of uh muddled thing but you know getting getting together and networking with

purpose um yes you know going to different trainings you'll you'll get

yourself well someone just stated this looks like about a foro job uh he he's

talking about it when Daniel went and helped out right yeah and that all happened because of networking we met

Jimmy at you know certifications and without that he wouldn't have had that contact information to just

you know contact me and say hey basically I need some help on this project will you come help me and I went down there and spent the day with him

and he was able to finish it successfully and that's what it's all about yeah that's what networking can do

right there so um you know improving your business I think it goes hand inand with

that as well uh because when I go to uh we're a member of fuse at my flooring

company when I go to the fuse conference and or the FC conference and you're

networking with everybody there you're learning new business uh strategies new

business approaches that uh you know we've implemented and gotten better um

sometimes we put our own tweak on it and that's what's that's just part of uh you know adding your flavor to a new

strategy but all those things matter guys and um you that's a fantastic point

right there too and um sometimes just being a flly on the wall um and

listening for a little bit before you actually interject or or um put your your two cents in or add to what they're

doing is is worth its weight and gold as well um it might clear up some of your scattered thoughts and some of the the

the items you're dealing with uh I know that I've done that a couple times just sit back listen soak it all in and go

aha Aha and then you start like well now I want to know this like what do you guys do when you do this what about this

have you guys ever experienced this and that's that's what networking is all about it's just about bouncing uh ideas

back and forth and absorbing whatever you can and sharing whatever you can it's as simple as

that yeah and people are appreciative when you're when you help them out a little bit I mean uh I've got a couple

of guys on Facebook that have reached out to me uh here and there for some advice they've started a new flooring

company somewhere and just lowlevel like

how do I do this how do I do that and uh you know I put myself in the position to

just kind of help them out and you that's how friendships are born too I've got a lot of

friends that I've gained through this industry and through uh the trade shows

and networking there's multiple people I would have never met uh including the two G the co-hosts here that or the host

whichever way you want to say it uh you know I met I met Daniel and Jose at at

CFI I believe or maybe it was Ty actually I think it was FC FC actually

it was everywhere my brother's in the house and you know what I did I did hear

you say Dave Barons right I heard you say that Dave Barons is watching yeah on uh Facebook yeah speaking of networking

you know like if if you go back to David Baron I actually worked for that guy he owned a local flooring company here

years ago uh when I was really really young um and and that helped networking as well that

helped with that muscle is uh I came in very young age became a leader very

quick for him and um it definitely my people skills were still really raw back

then as far as my patience but it it it definitely helped uh exercise that muscle as far as being able to to speak

up when needed to say something in a crowd full of strangers and not feel out of

place yeah I've I've uh once you've worked at I I keep calling it a muscle

but once you've gotten used to doing it you'll also reach out to new contacts that you may not know and you have more

confidence in doing that then uh that all these things are taking the next step I just advised a guy like get out

and get in the industry or get out and get in your community uh do those things to network and grow your business know

what your business does that set you apart this one of the things I I really try to

um uh uh make sure they're impart people when I'm talking about networking is you

know be prepared what is your you your unique um approach to our business or as

an installer um I've learned a lot from guys like yeah I don't mess with any of that big commercial work what I really

do is you know custom residential stuff

uh some guys come to mind there and I also know guys that would just soon never touch a residential job in their

life and and just wants to do the uh you know um commercial job so understand

what your unique approach to our industry is whether you're an installer or a flooring company and um you know be

have that on Q uh be be ready to talk about your business when you're doing

your networking so Hey Kevin you gotta let us know what booth number you're

at yeah toss that booth number up there Kevin Mario in the house too he just

said I love custom residential well there you go um Mario's in the

house floor God oh yeah so guys ECT there let's talk about

uh H how it improves your business when you network with other companies uh that

can get to feel like you're in compet you're working with your competition but

some of the best flooring contractors I know really work closely or work well

with other flooring contractors and and learn from them has that been your experience yeah I mean you were here

right when we had that event when you were when you came over here and I mean they came in here asking questions too

so that's what it's all about you know you know if if anyone can help anyone else with something that they've already

been through that's the the key right there and I think we said it last week

too where it's a matter of uh understanding and knowing your strengths and weaknesses and then recognizing the

other installers or or company strengths and weaknesses and trying to build something on that you don't always have

to self- sustain yourself right you can you can seek help elsewhere they can

seek your help and you guys can succeed together even if it is only a couple projects a year or even one project at

that um you can find success in any little uh Endeavor like

that for sure I'll say one one thing about uh this whole idea of networking

and growing your business it is the best type of business you'll get if you're in the commercial world or even in the

residential world and you have to consistently be the low bid to to win the project if you don't get out and

network and build those relationships uh you'll be stuck in that world for a long time uh building those um those strong

bonds with other uh with your community uh I'll tell you a quick story our uh

one of our coordinators was getting a some dental work done and they asked

what he does and he started into the spill so you want this to filter down to your people too if you're in the floor

you know if you have employees but he started telling them we're in the flooring uh business and we do this and

that and the other you know we do carpet U uh lvt sheet vinyl and all and he goes

through the spill and we're doing that job they reached out to us to to bid a job and it was one of our coordinators

that that that said that so that's the that's the power if you set the good example as a leader of getting out there

and put put yourself out there so will your employees and you'll be surprised when you get a a new dental office or a

dental office rebundle in this case uh just because the guy went and got a tooth fil or whatever it was so and that

goes to show like uh you know that that old saying which is is probably for me like one of the furthest things from the

truth is uh it's it's uh all on who you know right like I I understand that who

you know could get you invited to places but it's who knows you because who you

know isn't going home thinking about you right is when they know when they know you they're going home thinking about it

and I think uh we learned that uh at the chamber at the chamber yes some of some

of those meetings and networking and trying to figure that out and and realizing that our approach uh although

it wasn't incorrect it wasn't streamlining um any of our uh networking

at all but once uh once we started marketing ourselves in a different Manner and understanding that we had to

put ourselves out there um that's when more attention came our way when more attention came our way we

we had conversations you know we we don't always have uh the answers but we sure can find the solution and that was

uh that was part of what what helped us out there's been plenty of times where especially lately the chamber like just

showing up to these events you're on everyone's you're on the top of their mind right so if they see you the more

often they see you then then the flooring comes up and they're like o I know who can do this for you like they

don't necessarily have to like have anything done by you it's

just seeing you everywhere everybody wants to know a guy right I know a guy I

got a guy a it's a branding uh you're starting to Brand yourself it's like uh who was it Jay-Z said I'm not just a

business man I'm a business man you know like you you are your business and the

way you present yourself and go out and Network and and help people solve problems the more opportunities going to

open up for you so you know this is not a long form uh conversation or long form

like uh title or subject it's pretty simple you know get out work that muscle

go meet some people in your local community you'll get some opportunity from that get to know people in the

industry though that's my biggest kind of uh um I think that's what our

industry needs our industry needs you and you need our industry if you're in

floing it's a it's a mutual thing like the industry needs more of the people

that join us on this podcast to also uh get out and and go to the shows uh you

know our feeds going crazy right now and it's people that are are interested in

in this business and and get out and you know do that networking they know each

other and uh you know if I have a problem with the flooring project or we're running short I know who I'm going

to call you know and so a lot of that's um very beneficial in you building your

business especially if you're pretty early um and then making those relationships with guys like Kevin with

Roberts and and your your sales reps and things like that and you know making those those contacts so what else

um what's your guys's thoughts around you know we've talked about networking

how it can grow your business and but a little bit of personal what's that do for you from a personal level you know

we know that it kind of crosses over so you know what happens well just on a if

we're talking about like um Dwayne when I met him he thought that I

was I can't remember the word that he used think of a couple

yeah but then he met me and he was like you're nothing like I thought you were gonna be and that's like an online

Persona is totally different than meeting someone in person 100% 100% well

and and and frankly judging before you actually get to know him a little bit because if if you're introverted which

is like you're you're just not that you know robust person out there uh you can

seem scary to approach but I've I would

say uh kind of getting over that and getting going and then I've always used

Dwayne who you speak of uh the same way I've used Jose like hey

man who who is that oh I'll introduce you come on I mean that guy is fearless

I uh a fearless networker and

a Fearless guy to go and uh talk to anybody at any show anywhere regardless

of who they are um so yeah commercial and residential lover

that's a superpower brother it's a superpower um the I do wanna do want to

add real quick I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off uh but like when if you guys are out there networking and you

have someone who is semide decent at networking and you see someone struggling to mingle and say hello give

them a little kick give them a little boost um you know sometimes that's all they need in order to come out of that

shell and you know it it Daniel an introvert you're an introvert and that's

all it is is you come out that shell just that much you just need that little nudge and then you find it easy for the

next hour and a half and then you go back into your little your little hermit crab and and go back to the room

whatever whatever introverts do I don't really know what you guys

do well I we don't just sit in the hotel room and and cry uh it's just that that

and it's not even you know that you're afraid to talk to people all the time the fact is is that an introvert is

someone who doesn't walk away from a big social interaction that is uh and you

walk away from that energized I feel depleted in those situations you

probably Jose leave some big party and you're like let's go I've got my business developers that way she can go

to a an event and then a party and stay just as enthusiastic and want to do

another one after the first one I'm ready to go home and go to bed yeah you know it's

uh I'm ready to go home and go to bed too but I always feel like there's somebody else that I need to talk to

there's somebody else that I might be be missing an opportunity with and that's

usually what leads me on however when I'm tired I'm done with people um it's ready or I'm ready to go

to sleep it's time to go to bed yeah I love that people are chiming

in about their success with with this topic and and how they've applied it uh

to their business and I need I need to go ahead and remember to plug that if you're watching us on YouTube and you

appreciate the content or if you hate it give us a thumbs up or a thumbs down uh subscribe so you can keep figuring out

if you love or hate it and uh you know it helps our Channel gain some traction

on the different uh networks and uh we want to be able to come to you guys every single week as we have for 80 plus

episodes now and um you know deliver at the best content we can uh we have had

more people on this year already and we're going to continue to do that we're going to have some more guest and next

week at TI we are going to have the Huddle at the same time time we're going

to do two overtimes though uh we're going maybe three so we're going to be

shooting uh Tuesday Wednesday and possibly Thursday um and then we want also want

to live stream the the insulation Competition winner yeah so we're gonna

we're gonna be uh all over next week so if you don't catch us on on Tuesday you got Wednesday Thursday and probably even

Friday to uh catch us we're going to be working with uh we've got several guests

um we're we're there's a lot going on so make sure to join us next week uh same

bat Time same bat place but also we're doing a couple overtimes and at the

minimum like uh Daniel just said so we're gonna be shooting a lot and um we

hope to meet everybody there come up and and uh if you want to be on one of the the uh podcast one of the live streams

you know hook up with one of bu uh Ben Walker for the podcast or the the

backpacks I mean yeah that's where you'll find us yeah yeah we're hook up

with one of us and uh we're going to be trying to talk about some great topics we we've got some good stuff going on so

I look forward to seeing everybody next week um thanks everybody for joining us

yeah thanks everybody for joining us again if you're catching us uh on

YouTube or Instagram feed or Facebook feed follow

our Pages uh engage with us I appreciate everybody who is um you know in the chat

right now going nuts I love it and I hope that um you know we get to meet you

at TI and get you on the show ourselves so yeah I hope Dirk finds a roommate he's looking for someone to split a room

down at TI nice

well like not everyone knows everything like the floor guide does you just have to you know what you

know this is true all right guys well uh any closing

uh comments statements encouragement for the for the audience yeah just get out um put

yourself uh in an uncomfortable position and then get comfortable being uncomfortable um it's the best advice I

can get you um it's not always easy to get out in Network and and put yourself

out there just make sure you don't got no boogers hanging out and you'll be [Laughter] good just put yourself out there man

like that's what we're all here for if you're uncomfortable come to us we make people more comfortable

because you just come hang out and we introduce you to everyone that we know

then you're not a stranger anymore yeah if you're new to T come come hook up with us we'll introduce you to as many

people as we can uh I'll tell you another thing uh you hit on there Jose

was uh get comfortable being uncomfortable uh that's some life advice

really the truth is is um I've learned in my life and I'm telling you right now

there there is no Champions on the couch the the most comfortable place you can think of your couch or your bed

Champions don't live there man they're they're up doing uncomfortable things and always trying to push himself

whether you're a champion in Life or a champion in basketball I don't care it's like get out get uncomfortable and get

used to it yeah if you if you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got right so

correct if we're saying these little on liners do what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to do it so you can

do what you want to do when you want to do it or stop talking about it and do it we're gonna have to do a whole podcast

on on some oneliner quotes dude I got a lot lot I got a lot all right gentlemen

well we're g to cut it out I hope everybody found some value and uh little

nuggets a lot of times you know they're not huge audacious audacious topics but

they're some of these are the most important you go Implement you go get yourself uh uncomfortable and you put

yourself out there uh give yourself the chance to get to know people and get and

people to get to know the real you and you'll find some friends not only in the indust but in life so with that we'll

break this huddle and uh see you guys on Tuesday of next week and and join us for

all the episodes uh I believe we're gonna get them set um on T probably

Tuesday morning for the overtime so just the time change is

probably going to throw everyone off it's going to be at 1: p.m. Vegas time so if you're there you want to actually

join us on the Huddle get a hold of us and we we'll be happy to have you on especially that first one the next few

are kind of uh some scheduled stuff but on that first one we'd like to have anyone on that wants to be on

Amen all right gentlemen it was a pleasure and can't wait to see you guys

next week yes Vegas time so Vegas time wher you're

at you can do the calculation it'll still be 3 pm Central and 4m

Eastern and yeah so all right guys well it was a pleasure

can't wait to see you guys and break some bread and hang out a little bit so until then dude dude catch you on the

next it's B some tacos bro Bend some tacos man we're Mexican bro we don't break bread we B tacos come on man well

you guys love your tacos I know that for damn sure I was out there and enjoying myself it's how I keep my figure okay

I'm sorry all right everyone see you guys all right see you guys

thanks

The Huddle - Episode 80 - Get Trained, Get Paid

This week the guys are joined by special guests Sonny Callaham (Divergent Adhesives, NAFCT), Mike Newberry (FloorMax USA), and Mike Kelly (Synergy Flooring) to discuss the importance around getting trained, as well as the opportunities available for those looking to catapult their installation careers.

Congratulations again to the winner of the Forward Progress Scholarship Jess Wilson!!!!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The Huddle was created by Paul Stuart of Stuart & Associates and Go Carrera, alongside Jose and Daniel Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring. Aimed at helping you maintain forward progress in your flooring career, they cover topics from personal and business growth, to installation tips & tricks and everything in-between.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email ashlynn@gocarrera.com today!

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
https://www.preferredflooringmi.com
https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up floring family welcome to the Huddle we come at you every Tuesday 3 pm

Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring career with me

today as usual is Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez have preferred flooring we also

have a couple special guests in Mike Kelly from Synergy and sunny

Callahan so welcome everybody we are uh happy to have you

aboard we got an exciting episode we got a bunch of stuff going on so I'll get

kind of uh the topic out of the way today's uh episode number 80 get paid

get trained or get trained get paid I guess is the appropriate uh uh uh uh

steps and we got sunny and and Mike with us so Mike uh would you mind giving us a

quick introduction sir sure yeah uh again my name is Mike Kelly with Synergy flooring we're based

out of Atlanta Georgia uh we are a commercial flooring insulation

contractor uh that handles projects all over the country uh we do a lot of national account work so that puts us in

all different types of regions and project types and uh and flooring

conditions and uh we uh you know really appreciate the opportunity to be here

with you guys today and and talk about floring awesome well welcome aboard love

to have you Sunny what's going on today sir give us a little bit of background on yourself H you know first I

appreciate you guys having me it's always good to be on this on this show um you know my background is

installation I started out as an installer in the 80s um now I uh have an

adhesive company diverg in adhesives where we sell adhesive all over the the country but more more importantly I'm

the chairman of the board for nfct and um we're happy to talk to you

about training and the certifications and what you can do to make yourself better and make yourself stand out apart

from the other installers who are out there amen training we talk about that

all the time on this channel I know uh it's it's kind of a staple here we

believe in it uh specifically look you know at the end of the day the

subcontract Community we're trying to entice them to uh attend these trainings

uh attend certifications uh boost your Hammer rating on go career if you're a member there if not it still is uh a

core core value for us here on the Huddle that uh training is important and

uh you know installing by industry standard is a very um important thing

you never want to get a visit from the inspector and just find out that what you thought was right is not right so y

uh on the screen any will pop up several different times throughout the episode

to um you know join the go career Network please feel free to do so uh good afternoon Chad uh welcome to

everybody joining us at the on the different social medias so um in today's episode we are going to

uh be picking the winner of the Sim scholarship so yeah yeah we did this

last year it was U it was really successful this year we had 22 applicants and uh so go career sponsored

a Sim scholarship and of those 22 applicants we searched through for the

best answers and narrowed it down to 15 uh that that completed the application

in its entirety and put some thought and some effort into some of the questions

so Jeremy said just pick me already all right so we'll be doing that here in a

bit and um you know the topic today you know to

get train get paid uh I'd like to get some feedback from you guys on you know

one of the biggest things that or I would say most commonly commented on

items if you go across social media into the different Facebook groups

is install or pay um and you know so

it's all over the board if you spend any time in there uh a lot of us companies

uh many of you know I own a commercial floor covering company out of witto Kansas um the day-to-day operations I

don't do as much as I used to but the the installer pay side of things is

always uh come up for us but we bid work and so there's some constraints and some

some hard things to talk about when you start talking about installer pay but I do think it starts with training and

I'll leave that out there for some comments what do you guys think um you know is imperative for installers to

start you know increasing their pay rates well like you just said is the the

training portion the education portion um you know when when you're adding that kind of to your toolbox it's kind of

hard not to grow with the product it's kind of hard not to grow as a business owner as an installer um you you start

having you start having a little bit more expectations for yourself uh rather

than um in dollar signs from some of the companies that you work for so it puts

you in a position to see more value in yourself and when you see more value in yourself you project that um and when

you project that then people uh people seek you when especially if you're doing good work and and it's custom work or or

some Niche um you know now now you have uh that Niche and you're pretty good at

it now you have some certification or some training under your belt now your terminology and your your dialogue is is

a little more intellectual there's there's a lot more to it than just going and learning a little bit more about

flooring um that and that's just what that's personal experience too right

like I know that this is going to be kind of uh uh individualized but you know I've if I told you that we didn't

see any growth um after certifications or additional trainings I would be lying

to you yeah and he touched on a little bit to to build on what Jose said one

thing that I like to talk about a lot is terminology there's nothing worse that when you're out there looking at a job

an installer starts talking about things and trying to sound like they know what they're talking about but they use the

wrong terminology you instantly instantly lose credibility when you

can't talk about what you're doing correctly right so there's there's no

one how to do it there's no one how your uncle taught you how to do it and there's no one how to do it right so

there's a lot of steps to it's more than just taking a class is what I keep trying to tell people yeah and Sun

you're you're a uh an inspector as well right uh I do for company right right

yeah so from that perspective terminology comes really important uh

but also it's really hard to learn the things that inspectors are going to be searching for uh even if you put in good

quality looking product uh those uh those challenges can be uh you know

difficult if you don't know what the inspector is going to be looking for you got to dot your eyes and cross your tees a lot of time if you've ever had a

project inspected which I've been right and bookie is actually a local inspector

from where we're at and that's what he says you know a lot of people installers need to learn how to prep and you it's

just one of those things and that's where you know the the NCT is really good on their certification with the

subfloor and substrate it's amazing information and there's a lot of

terminology in there some that you'll probably never use right but it's good to know it's good to know yeah well I

mean sorry me to cut you off there Sun I was gonna say terminology is universal right

if if if you as an installer you're going and you're and you're quoting what you've learned in class and some of the

ASM standards you if you're going in there and you're going verbatim then then that is that is across the board

this you can communicate with someone in California and have the the correct uh terminology but right um you know like

some of the local places they aren't going to be so Technical and they might have nicknames for certain things and I

guess you I guess it put you in a position to learn both uh to understand your local terminology with some of the

stores that you work with and some of the other installers but the national terminology is is is what you get

educated on in in the classes in the training in the certifications and that's where it comes in handy

especially if you have to talk to an inspector or you have to uh take notes and put that information down that now

you have the the right terminology it's it's Universal that's right and and to build on what Paul was saying when you

talk about if you have to have an inspector come out to your job God forbid something happens they got to go

out there well how do you know you did it right you know how do you win the game you know the rules to the game

that's how you win well the rules to our game are ASM standards and it just blows

me away when people don't know those ASM standards f710 f2170 F-1

1869 when you have an inspector come out they're going to judge you by one or all three of those standards and if you

don't know what they are how do you know if you complied to them so there's a lot more to training it's not just hey I

took this class and a guy told me how to hold the trimmer a little bit better I learned something it's not that at all it's learning what you need to know

behind the scenes what can you what can you skip and what you can't skip more importantly yeah I I want to bring up

another thing you know often on this channel we we talk about the Sim program as

a um a really good thing for installers to go through as well uh that we believe

that it UPS your professionalism it will help you understand the companies you work for some of the decisions they make

how they operate uh but it'll make you a better installer in my opinion and Mike

is uh are you still chairman of sim program there Mike Kelly uh yes I am

still the uh the chairman of the Sim steering committee for FCA could you tell us uh from your

perspective and and we have companies that join us on this program as well as installers and manufacturers how does

the Sim program uh help with you know in general whether it's a company uh

sending project managers to it or um you know where do you see the benefit there

and with you know installers I really believe it helps them sure absolutely well the the kind

of begin first uh for those who aren't familiar with FCC it is a commercial

flooring contractors associ iation uh so this is your actual contractors installation teams all over the country

who join to uh to get this training to learn uh more about the industry and

their best practices and to network with other Professional installation uh

contractors so FCC is is a great resource for uh our our industry and

Commercial Flooring of that the Sim program which is the certified

installation Management program is basically a project management program

uh whereas there are a lot of other uh uh faculties out there that provide

installation instructions how to actually install flooring how to do proper floor prep and the like the Sim

program is a little bit more regarding the project management where you see the big picture how do I fit in as a

flooring installation contractor in the the the big the big project and how do I

work with General Contractors uh how do I understand contracts how do I read

specifications uh again talks about a lot about best practices uh so the Sim program is is

additional training that we really recommend for all installation contractors as well to better improve

how you perform in in your flooring project um again it is a online uh

program that you can take either again online or in a limited person capacity

which we offer those as well so that's where the the fcca really wants to

educate installation contractors is from the project management side how does the

floring industry fit in with the overall project yeah the the two days to Simone

was actually really nice Mike was actually heading that one up so appreciate you Mike Mike Newberry over

here uh lots of great information and uh I I think it's it's a great program and

I'm really glad to see that you know go carrera's you know putting that out there so that way people can I think a

lot of people don't realize that you know as an installer that those resources that you have aren't always

there right so money could be a little tight sometimes and it's nice for for go career to to put their their money out

there where their mouth is and say here you go here's a scholarship go go learn something yeah greatly

appreciated yeah so uh I like to say that you know the Hands-On

certifications and Technical Training is how to do the product or how the product works and you know the Sim trainings how

the project works and so when you know how a project Works uh you learn a lot

through that um and so it can't do anything but benefit you as an

installation contractor m Newberry joined us a little bit uh ago Mike you

want to introduce yourself real quick and uh maybe your your uh you know two

words on the or two cents on the Sim program sure yeah I apologize for a

little bit of the technical difficulties here getting on board but my name is Mike Newberry I've been involved in the

flooring business I just they asked me for our website the other day 37 years

started in a warehouse and went through estimating became a salesperson project

manager and have been primarily working on the operation side of the business for the most of my career I had the

privilege of being involved with the SIM program early on while we were developing the program itself and the

distinct privilege of being able to present a couple of the the modules within that and I got to say the Sim

program it's the only project management program certification program dedicated

specifically to the commercial flooring industry so this is not generalized project management nothing wrong with

that but we're in the flooring business so this is tailored to flooring professionals the materials delivered by

flooring professionals guys who have been in the same position the rest of us have been in they've kind of fought the

battles and we even sent one of our estimators through and found that the biggest benefit was from that was an

estimator looks at all sorts of you know I need to prep here I need to do this there and I need get all this in my

pricing but sometimes I don't understand how that impacts everything Downstream so we found it beneficial to educate

everybody in our operations site and we are we have scheduled this year to send the rest of our folks through the Sim

program just for that reason because it gives a well-rounded education to everybody from your your estimators

through your project managers and so obviously I'm going to put a plugin for it but it is something that you should

consider as a Commercial contractor yeah so all those uh uh contestants or

applicants out there that have um you know applied for the scholarship you

know if you uh if you win congratulations if not uh consider one

of the Sim uh in person you know two days to S is it two there's a two days

to sim I believe now it used to be three days to sim yeah and then um you know

the online uh version is is awesome as well the um I want to bring sunny in and

have Sunny kind of tell us about what you're doing with the summit so we're we're in this training talk uh as often

we we fall on here on the Huddle the uh new deal that you got going on it's

going to be in Atlanta correct could you tell us a little bit D okay yes Dalton

just outside of Atlanta how how 100 miles or well with traffic it can be two hours or

eight days just depending on so Sunny's going to be doing um The

Summit and I'll let you take it from there and kind of tell us uh how the idea came about and a little bit more

about that and why people should attend yeah sure appreciate it um well what we

wanted to do uh let me back up a little bit tell you how we got to where we are is um unite is is a new group that's out

there creating by Robert Bon he asked me to be on their board of directors and we got to talk and and their group and NCT

has a lot of similarities a lot of synergies same goals in the industry trying to make it better for the

installer and uh so we decided to get together put to put together an event

that not only has educational sessions has a little trade show uh we're gonna

have a panel discussion a well-rounded um event that has a lot of

different things for different people so it's not just sitting in a classroom for two days it's not just walking a trade

show there's a lot of different things involved um you know one of the things we that that Mike touched on a minute

ago was you know gearing it towards the project manager so um so they know

what's going on the problem is is a lot of times the installer doesn't understand what the project manager

responsibilities are sometimes vice versa versus the dealers the manufacturers on down the road so what

we're going to try to do is take a Grassroots Roots approach to this on the afternoon of the second day we're going

to have a panel discussion and talk about what is that disconnect between installers dealers contractors

manufacturers and inspectors to let each group know what the other group is

responsible for and if you can understand what the other group is responsible before you know how to get

your part ready right so this is really a followup to what we had at the FC

convention with CFI back in what was that October um October September somewhere

around there where we had this great great discussion and then we ran out of time and I can't tell you how many

people came up to me afterwards was like this is great we need to do more so I hope FCI doesn't mind but we took the

ball and ran with it because we're getting these requests where people want to learn more about how to certification

help me and whose responsibility is it to get that certification right so that's kind

of how we came to F how this thing came to fruition uh we've got a lot of big manufacturers involved um not only to be

in the trade show but to be speakers there um we have Dean Craft talking about concrete we have Seth bavari

talking about underlayments uh lee Phillips from PTL um some of you guys

may know him he's he's the he is the guy who the lab guy who tests everything for

all the mills in Dalton he knows all the test standards so he's going to come in and talk about that and I'm going to

talk about ASM standards and how it relates to that uh I know I'm rambling here a little bit but it's there's so

much involved there's no way I can give you an elevator speech on how it is on what it's going to be because it is

going to be so Dynamic and I hope everyone can make it uh give us the dates and the location

you said Dalton uh just where where what facility and uh

what are the dates yeah so it's going to be February 22nd and 23rd which is a

Thursday and Friday and it's going to be held at the Dalton Convention Center so if you ever been a Dalton that sits

right up on the side of the mountain looks over the whole town there so it's really easy to find um pretty easy to

get to if you're flying in through Chattanooga or even Atlanta you know it's realistically it's about an hour

and a half Drive uh up to Dalton and uh we really hope you guys can make

it awesome well thanks for that uh outline of what's going to be going on I

mean the the the whole episode's based around training um and then install our

pay and all these things matter guys what's what's really important is that you understand that there there are

resources out in the industry from the Sim program to help you uh not only only

like I like I said earlier kind of understand how a project is done uh but

also Hands-On you guys should have Sunny a glue competition like

speed that gets some guys excited we we do one with Divergence

sometimes what we'll do is We'll pour out a bucket of multi-purpose adhesive on the floor see who can pick it up the

fastest see who can put it up back in the bucket and then you win prizes so that's pretty fun because the helpers usually end up with half the bucket them

the experienced guys don't want any glue on their fingers at all so yeah do it with cutback and see what happens

right if you've ever messed with it in your life well awesome so guys uh you know

take note uh it's in February again the dates are the 22nd and 23rd yes 22nd

23rd which is the Thursday and Friday and on the website I didn't see any information about um what hotels is it

just any hotels in the area then yeah just any hotel I mean you know most of

the people who are going to attend are be pretty local um but uh you know there's a court yard there's a Fairfield

in there's Hilton a couple of Hilton properties a holiday in um so basically

wherever you have your rewards points there's a spot for you to stay that's right

right some people have their like me I'm a Marriot baby so I only stay at Mar

because I get those points well thank uh thank you you for

uh giving giving us the outline there I want to encourage everybody that's uh watching if you uh are catching this on

one of the social channels or uh you see this on YouTube consider giving us a like a subscribe thumbs up thumbs down

either way just uh engage yeah let us know what you think also as you see we run this deal where

we want to hear from you about topics that are important to you so if you have topics you want us to bring some experts

on four uh or just have the three of us ramble on about uh feel free to send us

an email at support go Carrera email uh Daniel or Jose at preferred

flooring uh we're getting ready to do the the drawing here SOC um that that's

coming up next what we'll do here uh for the drawing is each name of the 15 names

I'll have uh Ashlin pop it up on the screen hopefully this works we're using

some new technology here and if you see your name uh you will see a number next to it

at that point I'll do the little deal we'll pull a number and we'll announce the winner right there so Ashlin if you

can she's she's working on it in the meantime when that pops up I'm

going to uh I might just go ahead and do pull the

number and then when she has it up I'll announce the [Music]

name and we're doing good old fashion Bingo style

so I I really hope that the winner understands the value of of what they

they're getting I got you ashin um I I don't think I truly understood it until I I I sat through the three days of

sment and realized that it bridged the Gap um and it it might have went over a few things that that I might have

learned the hard way but holy smokes did that thing did that class really educate

me and helped me see the light for what color it was instead of just saying I seen the light down the

hall yes very in depth for sure yes as a matter of fact that's

where I met Mr Kelly that's right not not that not too

long ago it was a few years and a lot of fun years

since all right well Ashlin we had it up but but then she she tried to put

herself on camera well she's better looking than any of us so

[Laughter] 100 I don't know we got Santa Claus on today what he say he's the te- Santa all

right Ashlin in in lie of doing that I'm just going to tell you the number and

you can uh even if she pops it in the chat yeah uh you tell who the winner

is number 29 share screen look at that

29 Ashlin I thought that meant that you won

Daniel I was like I don't think

he Jess Wilson Wilson Oh hopefully he's

on you know Jess is on congratulations Jess Ashlin uh do you have can you uh

unmute yourself and tell us a little bit about

Jess maybe I am muted can you unmute her

there Daniel she is unmuted but we can't hear anything that she's saying let me see here we

go we'll see if it'll let her talk curious a little bit does anybody

know Jess Wilson on the call no well congratulations Jess yeah

congratulations Jess you just got a lot of information what locations every

everyone who um who applied I wonder where everyone's from was there any uh number you know they were kind of all

over was it they were kind of all over from a location standpoint

um and I don't have the uh list in front of me to say

anything about Jess so Jess we'll be reaching out to you uh actually um fcic

will be reaching out to you to uh get you the information to um you know claim

the scholarship and then they'll work with you to go through either the online or two days or uh whichever event works

out best for you so congratulations

and depending on where Jess is it may be a good opportunity to host a two days

Sim there you already got one to start with so depending where he is get both

of these get both of the mics out there at the same time that'd be a

win-win I do want to take the the opportunity here to just thank go Carrera for all your support of the Sim

program and and for sponsoring this scholarship uh really means a lot to to us and and really shows y'all's

commitment to training and uh and and improving our industry so thank you so

much you're you're very much welcome we we uh really love the FC and everything

that goes around we had at my flooring company several Sims I myself am not yet

and I can't enter the scholarship so I just need to go to one of them myself and and uh but I've read through the

books and uh been able to uh you know ingest some of that stuff so it's a

great program um many of the guys at our company that have been through

it you could see the res the the difference in the approach as soon as they got back uh a lot of times as

business owners and I'll talk to you guys out there that are flooring companies that have project managers on

your staff a lot of times we can talk till we're blue in the face about a certain way to do things there's

something about having a third a a third-party Vindication of those

processes and procedures you may have um a lot of the stuff that we teach at our

company at the flooring company uh you know got reinforced at Sim and some new

stuff and the cool thing about that was the guys your employees when they they

see a a actual program tell them this is the best approach this is the best

process and it's been developed by multiple flooring contractors guys like

Mike Newberry I know Sunny you said you uh worked in that uh on the Sim program

as well the these guys have been in flooring for a long time and so the best practices that come out of the Sim uh

program is is kind of a cons consolidation of knowledge so uh if you

have uh project managers I would encourage you uh if you don't go yourself like me at least get your

people people to it uh which is uh you'll see a difference so uh thanks

again for everybody who uh you know applied it's really awesome again Jess

congratulations and we're gonna go to closing statements uh on overall and

we'll just we're just going to go around the board here I'd like to hear like what do what do you tell your people if

you're at a you know a lot of us are either flooring company uh owners or

have been or were a manufacturer at this point with sunny what is your best um

you know elevator pitch to a new guy that's coming into the industry about

continuing their training I'll let Mr Newberry start he's

got the most I tell him first off that welcome

to the PO industry you're never going to get out

true a true statement very true statement what I what I really try to

drive home to anybody who is new to the industry and shows up is this is not a job it's a career and there are so many

opportunities if you really dedicate yourself to it and while you tend to think of it as a simple Place flooring

is very complex and complicated and the people who know it well can be very

successful in it so I encourage them to not just do their job but learn about their job

awesome let's go with the next Mike Sure uh well I'll say what I've

learned over the years when it comes to training in the floring industry is you know learning from some of these

industry experts who have been in the business for 20 30 50 years uh they love

to teach and they love to uh train on the flooring industry

because they want the industry to be better and you can learn from their mistakes really is what it is they will

tell you all the Battle Scars that they've earned all the War Stories they've gone through you can really save

yourself a lot of headache and a lot of money if you learn from others and and

always be asking those questions I also have say that the cost it takes to

invest in training you will earn that back tenfold in either growth

opportunities and sales or in just savings uh you don't want to be uh

losing uh money on your projects because you didn't know exactly what to do on the front end and so the more training

you you do and the more investment you make up front you will earn that back tenfold 100-fold at

times well said both guys hey Daniel preferred tell us your uh your your

pitch there man it's uh like when when I started going I

think sunny and and Paul were in it at the beginning right because I think I

went to their events before I even got certified um by CFI and it's just a

wealth of knowledge there that you don't even know that you didn't know some of this information until you go to one of

these things and it's like man I didn't didn't even know half of the stuff that they were talking about and like it's

some of the stuff it's I'll never use it again but it's also good information to know just in case you ever see anything

that you know that's out of line and it's like oh they talked about this at this one seminar with the nfct and I

remember that so it's a lot of stuff that you get to keep in your in your back pocket um you a lot of knowledge a

lot of great people that you meet I mean sunny and I I mean we we have meetings every few weeks now just talking about

stuff and trying to to see how we can move the industry forward even more

awesome hey uh brother Jose what what's your what's your pitch for

training so I don't know if it's gonna really be a Pitch but I I will say this I will say if you're already good at a

discipline um you will get better you will learn something that you didn't know you will have an aha moment in one

of the trainings or certifications um if you're if you want to learn a niche then then by all means

find some training some certification um what this will help you do and this is good for business is it's

going to help you create separation from yourself and and other installers right so I mean the topic is get trained get

paid and I think that that is what separates you from the others is

what will lead you to success as long as you're willing to put forth the the effort um that's that's really all I

have to say is it it will create separation and that's the only thing you can do and I'm and especially commercial

flooring in the bid market so Cutthroat you're going to have to create some kind of Separation in order to stand out um

you know it's low bid doesn't always get the job right yeah if it's not low bid then it's

the then it's the company that stands out it's the company that that that shows they're putting forth the effort to be better at that discipline and I

would say take a class some training create separation awesome thank you I'm

going to let you close as Sunny I'll give my two cents I always say that there's only two ways you get better at

something that's education and experience you can make one go faster

and you have control of one you can't you can't accelerate 20 years of experience so this one you know the guys

that uh it's often the guys that have been doing it for a long time that are the most resistant to new certifications

or getting certified um but for you new guys I want to tell you you can't

FastTrack 20 years of experience but you can FastTrack your training you can

FastTrack education by getting involved and going to more education finding the

discipline that you love and then doubling down you know I started in carpet installing and being a helper I I

found my love in cheat vinyl and heat welding and Flash coing and that's where I excelled that's where I went and got

certified and uh I enjoyed that process I got really good at it it helped me

grow my company I now employ you know 30 people at 30 plus people at the flooring

company and utilize probably 75 or 80

subcontractors and you only can kind of go through those steps with education so

I always say double down on the thing you have control over you have control over your education you don't have

control over your experience Sun how about you closes

out all right got shade under two hours so I'll go

here but I think the most important thing about training is exactly what I

learned from FC you're GNA go there you're going to learn some things right you're G you're

going to learn something every time you go but the relationships that you develop at these groups especially

FCI um I I have friends through FCI that

that far go far beyond just being businesses acquaint business acquaintances we go on trips together

and we develop those relationships by going to these groups and networking

with all these professionals that are there um but my favorite story I tell people about FCC is I'm allowed to smoke

one cigar a year now one and I hold it for FC and I sit down

with Mike's dad at and I sit with a guy by the name of sim chryler who was probably the smartest flooring guy on

the planet no joke and I just sit there and listen to him you think I talk a lot I just sit there and listen to those two

and they can tell me experiences that like what you said I made have never seen before never heard of and they talk

me through it and work me through it and it's the best education you'll ever get okay the other thing I want to talk

about with training is know what you're trying to learn okay that's the most

important thing I if you if you need a project manager there's nowhere else to go but FC right if you want to learn how

to do wood in WFA that's where you go you know we do subfloor substrate CFI

does carpet they're there specialized groups that you can go to and spend time

with and learn learn your trade learn the people who are the manufacturers or

the products that you're using which doesn't sound like a lot but if you call us and have the direct number to call us

before you do something wrong we'll high-five you and support you all day don't call us after you did it wrong

because you didn't read the bucket right we want to help you I know I'm the only manufacturer on here but we really want

the job to go well we want you to be able to do the job to the best of your ability and understand what's going to

happen and getting involved with any type of trade Association be it nfct FC

W fa CFI I could go down the line with all the acronyms ASM

especially get involved with the group and get a support group around you because that's what we are right Daniel

we bounce things abely all the time what do you think about this what do you think about that and if I wasn't

involved with a trade Association I would never have met anybody on this call right I met every single one of you

through trade associations that I'm happier for amen well thanks every everybody for

joining us today um uh just to kind of close that out all these trainings come

into real um uh life you know uh advantages on our platform called go

Carrera the the fact is is every one of these matter and it increases your

Hammer rating uh matches you for more projects and gives you the ability to uh

do the projects that you enjoy doing and that the company needs you to do so it's a real nice marriage

uh you know we've we've had the the uh pleasure to be able to fill contracts

and work orders all over the nation some even over in Hawaii I think we we filled

one over there and got the work done it's not always perfect be patient when

you're on the uh platform the platform's awesome you'll get your Hammer rating and everything but at the end of the day

uh we don't have uh there's not work all over the nation so so come for the community we'll be announcing some

really cool stuff next week on the podcast here about what we're doing around the community and to build a a

strong Community within the go career Network so I want to thank everybody for joining us thank you Mike thank uh well

I better last name too Mike Newberry thank you Mike Kelly thanks Sunny for joining us gentlemen as always you're

awesome I got one more challenge though for you Paul before we before we sign off you mentioned that you wer you

weren't Sim certified believe it or not I'm not either you find a two-day to sim

to go to I'll pay was just announced with you we'll do it together amen

wasn't there a two days to sim just announced I think we're gonna check into

that we have a few coming up we do have we do have one in April that's up in new J in New Jersey

so as an option maybe some others welle host one I'll go out there and that

I said at your place you can host one I'll come out there you want have to try we actually been working on getting one hosted up in oura at our Kansas City

location trying to get enough of the uh I think we had five or six uh from our

flooring company and then trying to get enough to uh fill a class so I know that's still actively being worked on

from our manager up there so if we can get that one on the books then both of us get to uh Join one another up in Ken

City and get s certified ourselves so yeah and and we got a trade show right around the corner too so we'll we'll

probably see are you guys going to everyone over here gonna be at ties I will not be we'll be there not

this year no well I tell you what if you're

not at Ty uh try to get to one of the conventions this year and uh if you're

going to be a TI come see us we're going to shoot the podcast we're going to do some some uh overtime so we're going to

do podcast on Tuesday we're going to do some overtime podcasts on Wednesday it's

going to be uh two or three days worth of podcasting from the uh Ty Convent the

convention in Las Vegas uh surfaces as it's fondly uh referenced but Ty is the

official name so look that up online and join us reach out to us if you need any information on that and gentlemen I'm

gonna let you all go I really appreciate everybody coming and everyone thanks for

having thanks for the opportunity it guys great

thanks Jose thanks Daniel last but not least congratulations Jess all right

Jess good job all right congratulations see you guys see you guys

bye

The Huddle - Episode 79 - Pros and Cons of Subcontracting; Tax Season

This week the guys go over the pros and cons of doing subcontract work, especially during this time as we approach tax season.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carrera who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

what's up flooring family welcome to the Huddle come to you every Tuesday 3

o'clock Central to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring

career with me today as always Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez out of Grand Rapids

Michigan we are new tech technology today so sorry

we're late a little bit but's it going fellas it's going good my brother's going to come over here because we can't

figure out the new technology yet yeah we're getting

there so so to get started kicking off the new

year uh we figured what better uh topic to talk about than taxes

take your headphones off so uh today's topic is pros and cons of

subcontracting and um you know this time of year tax preparation that kind of

thing now we're not accountants or um financial

advisors but so take this as entertainment purposes um or just uh consider it as

a um lessons that we have learned or

have experienced and we're sharing our journey so do not take this as Financial

advice but I don't think we'll get in too much trouble by saying pay your

taxes and uh preparation in doing so uh

so to start off with though the the part of the topic that leads up to this is

the pros and cons of subcontracting so at my flooring company we have both

ourly and subcontractors I know that preferred floring does as well

and uh the purposes of having both for us is quality control as well as uh

control in schedule more flexibility with our in-house

guys um I also believe in training a lot so if we can send people to training or

or make sure that our crews are better trained um it's just frankly um an

easier thing to do with um you know in-house employee installers

so pros and cons guys what's theh what's your initial take on um becoming a sub

contractor I would say um you do have quite a bit of Freedom

right like it's really up to you how much work you want to take on or how

little work you want to take on the type of work you want to take on you can be

pretty fussy um if you select to be um I would say that that was and you you can

you can choose who you work with or work for that's a little bit easier as

well yeah those are great points um one of the big things I think that is

appealing is having some flexibility to your schedule uh to people I think one

of the other appealing things is uh you know doing doing the work you love the

most you can kind of choose to do if you're you know a carpet guy you can choose to do just carpet yes you know

and there's plenty of guys that I mean some of the guys that we use we use them strictly because of that that's all they

do so anytime we have that project it's like our a highend residential piece

this is who we're calling yeah yeah um you can build a a reputation around that

so I know that's appealing and that's a great point it is you you find um you

find people willing to work with you and be part of your team who may have strengths that you don't and um I think

part of the the hardest part about that is is just recognizing that hey someone is more efficient than you someone is

better than you but then also recognizing that there are people out there that that are are in fact um

really good at what they do and if they're more efficient than me then it doesn't make sense for me to struggle to

uh to have our guys go and do something that we have someone else available to do so that's what we were talking about

uh we had a meeting this morning and we were talking about you know some projects that are coming up that have

some ceramic tile on it and I was like just one of the last projects it it had two bathrooms and I said if we were to

do it it'd take us you know 3 4 days they got it done in two half days yeah

they just know they just know and they can you can specialize so

obviously that's a um a big plus

um another benefit I think or another appealing thing of becoming a sub is

what you mentioned Jose is you can kind of work with the people that you like working with the most uh you know if you

work for a company by the hour I mean technically you can quit and go to work for someone else but you know working

for other people as a sub doesn't impact the resume the way that working for 15

companies by the hour over the course of a year can impact the resume so you know

you you have more freedom of who you work with and and enjoy working with and doing the type of work you enjoy um so

those are all great reasons to become a sub or to be a sub I mean you know I know plenty of guys that really

specialize in she vinyl and and Flash coing and heat welding and that's what

they enjoy doing and that's what they're the best at and uh I also know some guys that wouldn't touch it with a 10- foot

pole but can do ceramic tile like you wouldn't believe so um you're not don't

have to be you don't have to be as um you know varied in your skill set um

necessarily not to say you don't need to be a problem solver certainly you have to be a problem solver but uh you don't

have to you can kind of like I said just uh hang out on the uh discipline that

you enjoy doing the most floor God in the house um

so when you talk about Subs it's it's hard not to talk about the money that I think is another attractor for a lot of

guys this one is where I think the most pros and cons come into the

earlier uh items you did you mentioned uh Jose

was I think really positive reasons to be a sub like they all make a lot of

sense and very little full or um wh Whiplash from that or or cons to that

when you start talking about the money you do have to start to then be understand it's more of a business

business um Acumen that you need to have there's there's more things you need to

consider um you know being this time of year I talked about taxes already but

I'm going to just dive into that a little bit more here in a bit another thing that you need to learn to track

that you don't have to typically as a hourly guy uh or not so much is the

expenses on the on the project like what are you spending money on how much gas

are you spending in what's your you know vehicle payment do you have a shop

what's that like understanding your cost to do business what's what's overhead and what

is job cost and separating those and understanding what you need to

make to cover those those overhead and uh project cost and if that confuses you

a little bit there is a program out there called The Sim program that will actually help you understand a lot of

what he just said sorry just little plug in there for that yeah well that's that's a good

point and that that program does go into it pretty well I've read through the the

manuals that our guys who got Sim certified um brought back and there's a

lot of good info in there about that and I would say that one one thing to

understand your main difference one of the kind of the Frameworks I I'd put

around overhead versus project cost is if it's if it's something that's going

to incur whether or not you're working or not so your rent or your

utilities employees can be can fall in that as well um and I I say non nonpr productive

employees maybe a bookkeeper who works for you or if your wife is your

accountant and you're paying her uh those types of deals those are overhead

cost member member number four this is Luna yeah

Luna she's back here whining so I figured I better pick her up before she's gets Lun is gonna teach us some

stuff about being cute so um yeah I I look at it like if

it's not directly project oriented that can get confusing because then is your

truck you're driving it mainly for work is that a project cost well the gas to

get there can be but the truck itself you're going to incur that cost next month anyway whether you land a job or

not so it's kind of a oversimplification but maybe a good framework to think

about it in um and then you got taxes and we are upon that time of year where

the profit that you've made um I think in a previous episode we talked about

this but putting a certain percentage figuring out kind of even if you just get close figuring out which bracket you

think you're going to be in and then pulling that money back and saving it uh doing that on a weekly or monthly basis

versus trying to come up with a large sum at the end of the year uh or making quarterly payments into the uh tax

entities so that you know you don't get hit with a huge bill at the end of the year uh those are are all pretty good

practices that I think that would be supported by the you know governing

entities but what what are your guys's thoughts around that because it was one of the things that really caught me off

guard early on thing that catches everyone off guard and you kind of uh I

think when everyone start they don't really realize how much of it actually

has to be put away so they're just guessing right and

if you really look at um the documents that the government provides they

actually give you a table and everything to say if you're making this much this how much you you you should be paying

but that that's all without deductions right so that's without your kids and without your house and whatever other

deductions that you have but still um we we want to say it's the we I think we

stuck to 30 percentage was I think we started 33 right like trying to overdo it but

then 30 ended up being a pretty good sweet spot to plan ahead yeah I'd say that's

um I mean what do you got to lose at the end of the year if you don't pay it all the way in you got money left over in

your account um much different than when you're getting as an employee the

employer handles that and pulls the money out of your weekly paycheck and

then forwards that to the government um and you often would get a refund or a

lot of people would get refunds well my stance is one of the benefits of being a sub in this manner is if you if if

you're over allocating to that at least it's in your hands and not in the

government's hands until they decide to give you a refund right so that's kind of a benefit

if you do it right as a sub put it in a tax bearing or a interest bearing

account that's liquid you know and a lot of a lot of

people will put it into a CD earn you right now pretty good rate you know five six yeah yeah and uh you put that in on

a monthly basis and buy six month CDs and uh depending on the minimums for

those but you can have multiples um and then you're earning interest on your money while you're waiting to pay it in

and then when you pay it in every quarter or every year however you choose to do it you got the money whatever is

left over you just don't liquidate and uh you keep it and it keeps growing for you

so the to me that's a benefit you're keeping your money you're not because

essentially when you get a refund the government's not giving you any money they're just giving you your money back

that you overpaid so I I I don't know why but when I was younger in my early

20s I was like yeah I got you know it was almost like yeah like and the

government puts it that way that too they treat it like it's a gift to you um because that's how they want you to feel

in truth they're over there earning interest on your money and every bit that you overpay and

so as an employee you set your deductions you set all that up with your

employer on how much you want pull from your check every week if you're getting a huge refund uh you might want to

reconsider you know whether or not you want that much taken out and readjust to

me it was uh after I figured it all out it was better

to still owe money at the end of the year even if it was just a little bit

then for me to get a big refund I didn't want I I got to where I didn't want a big refund even working by the hour I

figured that out after a couple of years and I was like shoot I'd rather have all

my money as much money as I can possibly have right now and at the end of the year if I owe a thousand bucks I owe a

thousand bucks um so plan accordingly the the best advice I can give you is

get an accountant you know get an accountant talk about your business talk about how

you uh I I went three probably three years in without an accountant I just I

had a sister that did taxes and I didn't have an accountant get an accountant

make sure you're uh you know communicating with them and you're

turning in your documents your receipts and your your expenses and things like

this note which job it's on you know try to have a pseudo p&l at the very least

um but working with an accountant on your your taxes is the best practice and I thoroughly thoroughly encourage it and

don't take anything that I said um as as

gospel that's just where you found your the best success for you right you found your stride with that yeah and um I

think um early on when we had uh let's say before we

had an actual accountant try to do everything ourselves through the um turbo tag Turbo Tax and and

holy like the estimating the taxes and all that you know Turbo

Tax that's all it is is recommendations right I don't think there's any there was nothing exact there was no because

it can't do projections for you right it only can base everything off of the previous year um and we've been wrong on

both sides positive and negative um and let me add to that too the taxes the insurance too like you're a small

business but you do have a couple employees um I think we've been hit with a pretty large insurance bill um after

the turn of the or after the renewal as well um because we didn't plan ahead for that we didn't plan accordingly for that

either or didn't pay enough um so so that's a little off track but I just

want to throw that in thereo no it's it's perfectly on track actually I mean insurance is one of the biggest uh

expenses you have as a business and we're talking about what a what the pros

and cons are of being a subcontractor so oh yeah yeah insurance is right there

with with taxes um insurance

is particularly um it's important that you

understand the the rules in your area for insurance and that you consider if

you're going to hire a guy pay him cash and do this whole $199 exempt he's

exempt I'm exempt they're exempt you you are flirting with some

danger I'm going to 100% agree with that um so um I I would

say make sure that talk talk to an accountant and um they'll help you with

insurance as well and understanding they're not insurance people but they'll certainly help you understand some of

the consequences of not paying it also uh the deductions that come along with

paying it so it's not you know it's a it's a business expense so you know talk

to your accountant but in most cases that's going to be reducing your taxable

income and I I think what people just need to realize is that insurance is something that you're going to have to

provide and you're never going to get away from it like yeah it's it's nice to

want to cut cost and everything but the deeper you go into everything like all

right say you you do start off as you know working for someone then you're like I want to get my own jobs and I

want to work for contractors and stuff like that and then guess what now you need this insurance guess what your

limits go up and now you need to provide um you you need to provide them on the

insurance right and it's additionally insured and it just goes on and on and then it's an umbrella insurance and then

like I of segregation and everything goes along with it yeah it's

like you're you're never going to get away from it it's it's it's something that you just have to embrace and if you

embrace it early on you're going to be far better off um I mean everything is just it's an

like just like everything it's an additional cost I don't think we've ever worked for

a company that didn't require like the bare minimum I we're talking about insurance to be

clear we're talking about liability insurance health insurance and all that is a whole different kind

of ball of wax but if you want health insurance it's another cost you need to

be thinking about when you're biding your work yes the insurance we're referring

to is liability insurance so that if you uh you know throw your kicker through a

window on accident that that $20,000 window is now covered by your liability

insurance ins and it will be $20,000 guys it will be and you are not

personally going to have to cover that um

but the insurance that you need is going to depend on the type of work you're

doing uh like Jake says it's expensive all the insurances add up real quick

there's no doubt about it uh at the bare minimum you're going to have to have liability insurance if you're working by

yourself for a company or even for a homeowner you definitely want that I

mean if you just think about any number of things that can go wrong on a job or

you don't put your car your van in park and rolls back and smashes well that's

going to be covered and this is where Insurance gets complicated that's probably covered on your vehicle

insurance but if a piece of equipment falls out of it and then rolls down and

smashes the car then your liability insurance is probably the uh coverage so

Li insurance is just that it's to cover your butt on the things that may happen so you do have to have

it um I see some comments about going through wife's insurances that's more

than likely uh in reference to health insurance costs and not on liability

insurance cost liability is just that the liability that you're covering the

risk of being on a job site doing work that's what that covers work comp

covers injuries on that job site so if you don't have health insurance you darn

sure should have work comp on yourself if you do have health insurance then it

might make sense to exempt yourself from work comp insurance so a lot of this stuff is really

um there's some there's a lot of times overlap and you're double paying for

some things uh and that's okay but you know it's also very important to

understand what is re absolutely required on a job is liability and work comp uh you as a if you're an individual

installer and you don't have anybody working with you you don't have to have work comp you can exempt yourself I

think that's silly if you don't have health insurance though if you get a major accident you cut your finger off

on a job site then work and you're covered on your own work comp insurance

then you're covered unless you're one of those people that get hurt and pull a ladder over you and say it was the

electrician's fault then and then go that route but don't don't try to do anything dumb like that yeah uh you

know good a good point here make sure that your tools are covered

um that's content like the contents in trans I think they call it uh equipment

in transit each yeah equipment in transit has uh different terms for it but that's a good point Thank you Jake

for bringing that up appreciate the comment um making sure your tools are

covered or equipment in transit materials in transit if you're picking

up materials from uh Florida core for a homeowner and you get an accident on the

way there or your St s break and you

disperse uh all the materials onto the highway you need uh materials and

Transit coverage either on your auto policy or on your liability policy again

getting with a good insurance company we're working with um at go career working with Federated hopefully uh

we're talking to State Farm we're talking to a bunch of different fir uh I name them because they're all the major

names and trying to work out some packages for any go carera um uh

installer members to have access to professionals who can guide you in this

manner um but definitely you need to make sure you're talking to a pro on it

yeah and it's it all depends on the insurance agency right because we used to work with a local agency and they

were I mean they still are great I still use them for my home insurance I'm pretty sure you do to I've been with them since I was 18 years old we just

switched over to Federated not too long ago and it just they get more in depth when they when they you know do their

site visits here go through the warehouse make sure that everything is

uh is covered and they they get more in depth on the in transit stuff what's covered in the warehouse what's covered

under this policy what's covered under this policy oh your machines are in the warehouse but they're still covered

under this this blanket over here so you don't have to worry about it over here and it's just you know getting someone

that knows exactly what what is going on yeah so kind of closing this out

um I would say that you know making sure that you check all the you know

requirements of your area for insurance all the requirements in your area for taxes and then plan accordingly get an

accountant and get a a uh uh insurance guy that's the I I I don't even know if

it's a con for being a subcontractor it's just one of the things you need to be cognizant of the only con I can see

in being a subcontractor is probably the biggest con is the companies who have hourly

installers are always going to keep those guys busy first and you will be second so um I think that's probably the

the biggest con of all is or the biggest downfall of all is the fact that when

the work not there you're probably going to be the first installer to not be

working especially in an area that may have some hourly now if you're down in

an area that it's just Subs it's just you versus another set of subs and so

just make sure your quality is up there your communication you're you you're performing at a high level and you're

going to stay busy uh quick question came across what's go Carrera go Carrera

is a a network of installers uh you can sign up at goar.com

and the purpose of that is a you can find new work on go Carrera through uh

member companies and uh bid work there set your pricing um it's

also um it's also a great platform comment

come up Subs versus Subs here um anyway so go career also work working to

provide a lot of other uh tools for the installation Community from insurance

opportunities to uh get better in insurance rates um we have some

trainings coming down the pipe on some some Financial Training on how to run a

business uh you can sign up as you see here on the screen at go career.com

and join the Brotherhood the digital Brotherhood of installers where we're working to elevate our trade we're

working to elevate the installer uh me being an installer most of my life uh

it's been a platform that I've wanted to build and um have a huge benefit to the

installer the first purpose is and really our Mantra is what's good for the installers good for the industry so you

can find work on there you can bid work uh it's a great platform for um you know

we're going to be adding some communication features where we can communicate back and forth but if you're

doing project over the go career network with one of the go career member companies there's a lot of tools in

there that helps you protect yourself helps you with communication and

documents um you know keeps everything simplified in one space right that that's what a lot of um so we we talk

about the cons and and the pros and cons and I think one of the cons is is that a

lot of people get into the subcontractor space and not knowing how to organize everything and keep the business as

business we talk about bank accounts insurance and then just talk about paperwork in general how do you keep

everything organized and go Carrera helps you streamline that by keeping it per project you know these pictures are

automatically in that project you want to see them go back to that project look them up and Paul's being very modest

about about his about this platform you guys he's just trying like if this was around when I was younger and we were

starting out as Subs it probably would have been a little bit easier to find

work outside of my area and be and and feel comfortable going and traveling to to those other areas and that's where

the subcontractor a pro about it if you're on the network you can find work

somewhere if you don't have work in your area now you have access to this full Network um and as long as you fit the

criteria you'll have you could you could have a project available for you if you don't mind Trel and I think one of the

the good things about is you were here a couple weeks ago right and we started talking about you know employees on

there as well like you can you can be a subcontractor but still have your own employees and still keep track of them

and their projects that way too so it's uh almost on both sides right you're

subcontractor still have employees and keeping track of everything Allin one platform if you're a sub and you got

employees you can add them to your team share the project documents with you

with them the installation instructions and whoever gave you that job whoever's

work order it is that produced it you can chat with them live uh it just helps

a lot with your job site communication and covering covering yourself on change orders if you get a change order you can

or you have additional work on a job you need to do you can submit a change order right through the platform within I'm

talking two or three clicks and you've submitted a change order so it just

helps with protction of the subcontractor to not have uh verbal

communication okays or yeah go ahead and do that kind of thing and then not get

paid for it it just documents all that so it's a good platform we're working

real hard to add more work to it that's part of our Focus here in 2024 to add

more opportunities uh I talked to a guy that's on the network that wants really

wants more work on Across the Nation because he wants to travel and we've

talked about this too he wants to do a trip like travel and cover these work

orders um I think it would be freaking fantastic and cool to do that myself you

imagine going to Yellowstone or something and just picking up jobs on the way and three four weeks you're

working doing a little bit of job here do a little job there um we do have some success stories where guys have been in

one area the job got pushed for a couple days they picked up a job in that area covered their their couple days of

downtime earned a couple Grand went to the job that they were originally on didn't lose any time any of that I want

to go too [Laughter] Christopher so with that uh I hope we've

kind of you know at least given a high level of like the pros and cons of of

being a subcontractor there's not a lot of cons if you run run your uh

subcontracting business as a business um where I have seen the most failures is

when guys treat their subcontracting business like a job and they don't pay

any attention to the taxes they don't pay any attention to the insurance and proper coverage and they don't spend

their uh time as the business owner in recruiting and training new installers

to help their business grow you are a people business your people are made up

of installers of other other trades people and you want to be able to hire

these uh qualified uh you know starting people that are coming into our industry

and then train them up and then you can handle more work and know that they that's exactly how you guys have started

Su you know your success path right that's how I started my success path was hiring other uh installers paying them

as either employees or fully paying them as a subcontractor no$ 1099 like oh you

don't need insurance I'll pay you as a 1099 nope if I paid anybody as a1099

they are going to be um if if I paid anybody as a1099 they were going to be a

full sub they were going to give me insurance and if they had people working for them they were gonna have to uh have

uh uh work comp insurance all that kind of stuff so you know just run your stuff

that everybody asks of you like if you're if you're submitting that you paid out that much this much money to so and so then they're going to ask for

those documents anyway okay do you have their their information where are their documents um it's a trickle so so I'm

going to answer Chris's question real quick I think uh to answer your question

all you got to do is sign up for for an account and then go on the map to see if there's anything local to you if not um

I I'm sure you can reach out to what is it support goo.com and ask to be put

into contact if anyone is in your area so that way at least you have some contacts in the area yeah if you sign up

Christopher and then uh you can explore the map and see if there's any work in your area uh that doesn't mean there's

not a company it just simply means that maybe that company has all their work uh

covered at the moment um but you can explore work in that area or any area uh

that you please I know that there's some work orders that have been published in down in the south east there's been more

here over the last 48 hours even so it's growing and we're going to continue to bring them what we want to do is bring

you the opportunity the the work order is going to have an amount on it buy the

item you bid it the way you negotiate it the way that you feel is best suited for

you and if you have a strong profile the best thing I can tell you guys to be successful on go careera is have a

strong profile what that means is you

you want to get trainings that are going to increase your Hammer rating and bolster your experience if you're both

experienced and well educated in flooring you're going to have a good profile you're going to have a strong

Hammer rating you're going to qualify for a lot of work if you don't every opportunity that you get on the network

do a great job because then you can get kudos which will earn you even more work so we're working on there's a lot of

deals there's also a deals page on there for everybody's uh information that you

can go in and get discounts off of tools and stuff and we're going to really bolster that this year so um I'm going

to close this out we're trying to keep our uh new version here this year a

little bit shorter uh and as concise as possible so thank you for everybody

who's commented and um everybody who's um you know uh chimed in today we really

appreciate it guys any um closing thoughts on success for Subs because I I

almost think it's more of that than than the um go ahead I think um what

people thank you we've been saying that for years

yeah but I I think what what people need to understand is that uh they they only

look at the dollar signs that come in as a subcontractor and they don't look at the expenses right and that's a huge

deal of what we talked about today is yeah you get more more money but you also have to pay more money out and I

mean in some cases you know there's years where people say you know you're always meant to make money but there's

there's a couple years where no we did not make any money that year because the expenses outweighed you know the revenue

and that that's when you look at things as a as a from a business perspective and say what can I do in order to cut

cost somewhere make money but still be productive and it it is it's a business

that you have to run it's not just I'm going to go get as much work as

possible you got to cut cost you got to get better be smarter be more efficient find people that work harder than you

there's a lot of things to do right um yeah well I mean you're in a free market economy at that point and that's what if

you work for a company that's what they're doing finding ways to get Co expenses down uh you know make more

money get more Revenue do it if efficiently all these things

um just like J says it's an investment right yes and it it's that's what you have to look at it like any money that's

coming in like even now I mean we're what 13 14 years deep almost and we're

still constantly reinvesting because you know people think oh you guys are making all this money it's like no we're

constantly bringing it in and it's going out because we have to do that gotta re man got got to recharge man every every

every moving is is part of your battery for the business and you got to look at it like that got to keep everything recharged and work in order um I would

say for it for for my find my closing is um grind just grind

like in the back of your head if you're competitive man just just know that somebody out there is willing to work

harder than you you gonna let them win just grind yeah you gotta work hard for

sure that's a great point and uh you know speaking of Investments I know that wasn't necessarily the uh topic but you

know the third part to this is if you can put 10% of your money back and

invest it I don't care how simple you get uh talk to a financial adviser but

if you just over the last 30 years invested in the S&P 500 an index very

easy to do on your cash app it's like you're up you're up and to the right

significantly today versus 30 years ago so you know talk to a financial advisor

and reinvest your money as well invest it back into your company invest it back into yourself invest it back into your

employees and you guys will be better companies for it we'll all be stronger as an industry together and um I hope we

play a small part in uh part in helping you guys do that here on the Huddle so

with that I'm going to sign us out um happy New Year guys I hope everybody's

got a uh a great year planned and uh let's knock it out of the park this year

sounds good we'll see you guys next week thanks for joining us again thank you everybody thanks for joining if you caught us on any of the socials please

give us a like And subscribe I need to get better at at uh at yeah Shilling our

our Channel now comment H tell us something

appreciate all the comments during here thank you to everybody in the audience and we'll see you next

week

The Huddle - Episode 78 - 2023 Recap & 2024 Projections

This week the guys hit memory lane over the past year to reflect on past episodes, changes in the industry, and more, all while also making predictions on what changes we might see in 2024.

Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!

One online CIM Program scholarship will be awarded. Applicants will be notified after the review period by January 8, 2024.

GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

The HUDDLE is where the flooring industry can get together and talk about everything! Lead by Paul Stuart from Go Carerra who is joined by Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Preferred Flooring.

https://www.preferredflooringmi.com

https://www.stuartandassociates.com

Merry Christmas flooring family welcome to the Huddle we're here even the day

after Christmas to discuss maintaining forward progress in your flooring

career with me Staples Mr Daniel and Jose Gonzalez up in Grand Rapids you

just call us the vatos the vatos from the north

uh funny story I was up there and it was snowing and now it's nice up there and I'm back in Witchita and it's snowing

here so not sure sure if it's me or what but uh it was a pleasure hanging out

with you guys and um yes sir Merry Christmas how'd you guys' Christmas go

do good ate a lot of food still have a lot of leftovers in the fridge hey man that's one of the best

things about Christmas is The Leftovers man I'll get home tonight about day three kind of get sick of them but

tonight I'm kind of anxious to uh get to the house and see what the wife uh

scurries up from all the leftovers that's the best best though watching hey

Rin hope you had a good Christmas yeah Merry Christmas to everybody uh couple quick house uh

what's that called house cleaning house yeah we'll call housekeeping call

them housekeeping it is housekeeping few housekeeping items uh first off the sim

scholarships uh closed but we had 22 applicants which is the highest number

not only that we've had which we only have one year to compare to but also one of the higher years that the FCC has had

as far as the scholarships concerned so thank you everybody for participating we

will be uh announcing the winner on January 9th on the Huddle so make sure

that if you did um uh you know enter into that scholarship that you're uh

there you don't have to be present to win but uh you can hear your name announced on that we'll pull it live but

we'll like you more if you are there when it's announce we'll definitely like you

more um and then we're going to be moving into a new kind of uh platform hopefully

uh you guys will notice a a better produ coming in 2024 here and uh also we're

going to just kind of review 2023 some of the some of the best topics got the most uh engagement and uh have a little

discussion about 2024 where not only where the Huddle's going uh or this

podcast the Huddle but also just kind of what we're seeing uh from economic uh

reports and such so with that being

said I will start off with

saying bringing up a few of our um best topics of last year

so uh one of the series that I enjoyed the most is called re the relationship

series we did a four-part uh relationship series with your crew General Contractors homeowners than your

vendors uh but some of the best performing was no wrong way to start

your business episode 37 uh mindset of success episode 40

which um I'm gonna do a plug here I've actually followed a kind of a routine in

my life for the last several years and uh have assembled that into a journal um

that I try to journal daily try to live my life with intent uh So speaking of

success I've uh started working on a a journal to follow the way that I've kind

of keep my life in line and keep my uh smile on my face even when the when the days are hard and running several

companies with a ton of employees and um a lot of the stress that goes along with

that how I stay grounded and so I'm actually going to be publishing that uh here in a few weeks um I'll show it to

you guys but if you're interested Ed in that journal I'm going to give away like

I don't know 20 free copies I'm going to send some up to my boys up in Michigan

um if they would like to have them I guess I didn't even ask but uh I'll send them to you and you can give them away

if you don't want them how's that um that's fine that's fine brother we won't we're giving away to to good people

there you go um you guys have good practices in your dayto life already but if you don't and you want to live your

life a little more intently with a little more intention um this has just

been the practice that has helped me and I wanted to build it for myself to put it all into one uh deal where I'm not

writing in multiple books and multiple uh you know Journal here uh goals here

and this there and I put it all into one book with one layout and so it's pretty

cool um I'm excited to share that with everybody um it will be on Amazon uh for

purchase if if and in our store maybe maybe if preferred likes it they'll

they'll throw it in their store but um uh it's really helped me um so

anyway that's a Shameless plug uh but the mindset of success uh we

talked a lot about things and a lot of that is in that journal so um number uh episode 47 the impact of

technology on the floor floring industry that that's a big one we're going to have to revisit that in 2024 because as

we stated in that um in that podcast technology is always changing it's

always improving constant Evolution man it's it happens so fast doesn't it yeah

probably already changed since that podcast well we get emails you know just from the software just on the updates

this is what's happening you know this is what's going to be changing and the the crazy thing is is that

once these these things start changing there's really no turning back right I mean just think of it in terms of of the

subscription model like QuickBooks for instance was before it was just a

straightup program now it's a subscription model with online and they're changing everything over to that

model and people are really angry but it's it's the evolution of the software

I mean that's what everyone is running to right now is that subscription model yeah and and it it's just part of

um you know technology in general whether it's the the way that it's um

paid for or the changes within it I mean the cloud you know the the the whole uh

Advent of cloud technology that allows us to store everything on uh you know

servers that are not anywhere near you you know that's what the cloud is um I

mean from that to to uh blockchain technology that's starting to find its

way into um into different te you know pieces of Technology where you share GPU

um Power from all the computers on the network it's it's crazy how where it's

going and uh it's just going to continue so you don't have to participate in every piece of technology but I would

tell you you should probably get up to speed on these things AI technology that

everybody talks about it's kind of a buzz word right now but I've used it

I've you know worked with chap GPT pretty uh in depth as well as mid

journey and and there's these there you know I don't use it a ton but at the time when I started messing with it I

just want to know about it you know what I mean I don't want to get left behind and that's what's going to happen

is you know there's a lot of people out there that are stubborn like I am or I I don't say I am lucky for your brother

yeah that that you know this is like dude I know how to do this already like this but I already know how to do it and it's just uh it's just one of those

things where it's changed right and we don't like change because we're already accustom of how we're doing it

but the reason that change is coming along is is to create efficiencies right and as long as you're willing to learn

it you'll become more efficient um it's just a matter of trusting trusting another process um

yeah yeah at least don't get outpaced by it I mean yeah you don't have to adapt

everything but you knowing about it you might find your own way about using your

current systems in a more efficient manner just don't understand until you dive into it and try to learn those

things most of it you can't break I mean you're not going to ruin it so just get in and play with the stuff uh get to

know it and get comfortable with it at the very least you won't be left behind conversations about it you know and kind

of kind of have a little bit of knowledge around it so um yeah we'll

definitely tag back on to that one um number episode 49 the importance of

safety protocol and OSHA regulations um have you guys ever

watched that Tik Tok of the world of Osha violations and yeah like come with

me in a world aosa violations yeah I won't try to sing because it's really

terrible but I will tell you that it's pretty funny stuff and you will find a lot of things in there that you'll be

like my God I can't believe people do that but um safety is very important

I've shared a few times on this podcast of when I've seen people get injured

pretty significantly I've cut myself I can't count how many times during uh the years of installing um smashed fingers

and all kinds of stuff that's taught me lessons so uh that was a a good

performer building a strong Rel relationship and oh I'm sorry actually

building a strong reputation episode 55 that was one of our better ones as

well that to me stands out because everything's about relationships I mean

I've gotten close to you guys and You' visited me and I've visited you and

we've hung out with each other's families and it's because we weren't shy

to talk to each other at a trade show that's really where it all started from you know so um building reputation and

relationships kind of go hand in hand probably why I stumbled on that um but

um that was a well um a well received

episode another one um balancing work and life one that's gonna be the hardest

one to to to figure out for sure yeah technolog is easy compared to

that one although it's uh it seems to be one of the one of the reasons you use

technology can you imagine doing the amount of work we do today without email or something like that or without

digital communication I mean we wouldn't be sitting on this podcast that's for sure let alone you know the efficiencies

that all that stuff brought it's pretty crazy to think of if you think 30 years back but it is crazy to

think the the the technology and how easy um the evolution of everything has

has made it to increase your volume of work right your job becomes easier so

you take on a little bit more then something else comes out makes it easier so you take on a little bit more next

know that's the tough that's the tough thing with balancing yeah and then then you compare what one individual does now

compared to what one individual did 10 years ago it's like

man yeah it's expected so technology can play a role in it but

it certainly makes it actually I think a little bit harder because it's hard to

unplug you know it is you're it's it makes it a lot easier to work

247 yep as I mean I know that we probably touched on it you know on a pre previous podcast but like when I was on

vacation in the Bahamas it's like I'm there working everyone's still

sleeping I'm sitting at the the dining room table working and I mean it paid off I ended up winning the bid that was

due that week so it's it's one of those things where it's like uh it's a blessing and a curse at the

same time yep for sure we'll hit on that one again I think

that's always a good one to revisit year uh right in line with that is

episode 72 which was addressing installer

burnout yeah and that goes hand in hand with the the work life balance R and

they were they were both well ACH uh received you know ran said that we should see what they used to do 140

years ago which was roughly I think he was roughly like 50 years in at that

point he yeah he was 27 well Rand could probably um well he's

always a wealth and knowledge but he I guarantee you his life has seen all those

Transformations and um probably ought to be a guest on those episodes yeah

100% that dude's always busy traveling to all these certifications and all that

though he is he was just on one not long ago I seen on Facebook and kudos to you

for always being that guy too that's uh

amazing another one that was uh well received was episode 74 a new generation

of Labor and I think that just um you know that's

going to be a a topic as long as we are probably around you know trying to pull

in that new generational labor I did watch a deal on um I think

it was YouTube about the trade wave they called it that you know yeah just so

many people um who went to college kind of got some you know BS degree in fact I

was talking to uh my daughter's boyfriend last night and he was talking about all the guys that went straight to

work out of high school he's got a business degree of some sort and uh he's

like they're all doing better than me it's like they just went and got jobs or

got in the trades and and uh that's often the the the case you know and not

just with college but but you know

getting getting into so many people got into computerized systems and computerized

things and and you know now now ai now now you got AI That's taking over a

lot of these uh me it can write code man um and and it's it's amazing what

that thing can do um as well as like everyday stuff I've

I've wrote some really complicated formulas in Excel because it helped me

to like talk it through and figure out it's it's pretty uh crazy so anyway

it was talking about the trade wave that a lot of people you know are going to realize that like uh in that particular

video is talking like this guy was saying guy or gal I can't remember but

talking about how uh their financially can't afford this and can't afford that

and and people are in their comments like I'm doing just fine I'm a carpenter I'm doing just fine I'm an iron worker

and well I think you can almost look at that and kind of see how you know a degree ree is almost the same thing as a

certification we we always say certification we always preach education and that's it's the same thing right

just because you have that piece of paper doesn't mean that you're any better than that person next to you it's what are you going to do with that piece

of paper and how are you going to Market yourself and you know learn even more to

be able to be like I I do have this piece of paper but I'm better because of this you know let me show you what I can

do and it's it's kind of the same thing it's that that degree only gets you so

far it gets your foot in the door but you still got to prove yourself the same thing as a certification it it's only a

piece of paper until you show people exactly what you're worth yeah yeah same yeah that's a good point I wonder if

there's a way to pull like a non-biased metric on the success rate of certain degrees in certain areas because like oh

they have it if you pull it from the University that you're getting ready to attend it's totally different than if

you pull it from like a national one it's like how would like who who's creating this I I think all they keep

track of the universities is how many people get hired right out of the school right yeah but it's again I'm I'm saying

like into the field and the field that they went to they went to school for and then well something like 70% of people

do not have jobs in their um in

their field yeah in their field to study so that's pretty telling right there I

think another thing to your point Dan that that should be thought about is the

one thing you don't get in college as as easily as you do in the

trades is the experience with those things so you can mesh experience and

education together so you're applying that so if you're in a field that you can go out and get

internships then yeah you and a lot of those are free whereas in the trade you

get paid for that time uh but you know internships are kind of

like our pay trainings which you know most most of the trades if you're if

you're getting a training and and while you're getting your years of experience

you're getting your certifications and different trainings throughout the your your life of your experience um I mean

that's where that's where kind of the rubber meets the road and you become real valuable right here says uh happy

holidays and he actually went to school for pharmaceuticals and worked in impatient Pharmacy for years so and now

he's he's that carpet guy man yeah some of the work that he does on uh Facebook

man that that stuff is amazing I like binding surging and all that custom Runner work his nickname should be

Sergio ve very Sergio he's very talented no doubt about

it and he's got um I'll tell you one thing he's got too is a great attitude I

like that guy a lot he's he's always had such a positive attitude and uh but yeah

that goes to show you like he's got a a degree in Pharmaceuticals and he's laying carpet but he loves it he's an

absolute Master at it and uh I think if you master anything you're GNA find success

[Music] so let me see what the other there was

one making the industry One Number 77 making the industry one I think that's got a lot to do with um the at the end

of the um the end of the day coming together we

know we're bit fragmented in the flooring industry compared to a lot of the others and that fragmentation is

somewhat uh our Achilles heel but we can come together we can keep building each

other up keep talking uh you know keep shooting podcasts and and uh hopefully

they that that help helps to mend some of those things and allow people to come

together and um you know look for the best of the industry and not just I

think one of the things that I've noticed in talking to a bunch of flooring contractors and a bunch of

installers is the the shortsightedness looking out for the

week or for the day or the month maybe at best and uh not really looking out

towards it you know towards the future um that seems to be getting a little bit

better and I got to give it to the installers to be honest with you they're starting to catch a little at least from

my conversations like okay you know like the even the training or the the uh

adoption of new technologies and things of that nature um they're a little bit more uh

ambitious than I gave them credit for you know a year ago and I say them I'm

one of them but uh at the end end of the day um you know the guys that are putting the floor down on a daily basis

you know the men and women out there knock it out of the park um you know I

think that the the embracing of of trying to build a a uh Community where

we're we are all together the manufacturers the flooring companies the

flooring dealers and the installers and and we all realize our jobs are to put

down sell and put down Great Floors that's the bottom line so I think that Jon here says good afternoon fellas and

you're talking about Community he's one of the the guys that's been in it around this area for a long time too and and we

rarely see him we see we probably see people across the us more than than we end up seeing him and he lives in the

same city right and it's just how do we how do we end up bridging that Gap and I

mean we've talked about it a few times and we just have to start planning something you know once you set a date

it's just it's there kind of like I mean what what we did when you came in was you know like like on the Fly and we

still had like 20 people here yeah just imagine what you can

do meetups installer meetups is I think

one thing that you know I'd like to uh explore here and and try to do a few in

2024 is just get together and do the discussion have a talk have some fun and

um you know one of the biggest manufacturers uh in flooring is kind of

on board with that idea like showing that Community can come

together not not like shoot arrows at each other that we see on Facebook I

know we bring that up a lot but if you get on Facebook groups at all it's hard not to bring it up you know yeah um the

amount of back and forth and I don't know if there's more negativity or positivity on there I think it's a it's

a it's a pretty good mixture right but it's the the thing is is that on the positive notes there will still PE be

people trying to bring it down and then the more you try to like not attack but

like tell these people like no man you just got to be easy on them they're they're asking for help you know and

then all they do is bring their negativity to every single positive post anyways but but you know what both sides

are I think both sides are contain uh if someone starts commenting on a negative one you know the people will

will follow suit until someone changes that and then and and then you see you'll see the

shift yeah so be positive guys I mean it's a lot better way to live I'll tell

you that um yeah so those installer meetups could

be you know really cool throughout 2024 not just go career throwing them at different places but like hopefully it

just can be somewhat of somewhat like what you guys did there um just having

an open door and you know allowing people to voice their opinions their

excitement their concerns and and what they want to see change in the industry but at the same time you know we even

had a manufacturer here right Jeremy from Sho showed up with some of the most delicious cookies I've ever had in my

life and uh those were some good cookies it was it was nice to I mean he was

there and he was trying to learn about about go Carrera too so it was it was nice to have someone there and actually

like like before he left he was like yeah I've always heard about it I've never been through like anything about

it he said this is a really good idea yeah well you know beyond idea I

could tell you that it's past that point it is past the idea point and one of the

the key points to all that is building a community building a community of installers

uh and become installer strong I just said that out and I might need might use

that become install strong um that's a new shirt uh but yeah you know coming

together and and and uh having the retailers or the local flooring

companies put something together and have the installers come together and

and not just the installers in your company but like the the entire community of installers in your area um

and uh because one thing I found is if it's just my company and those

installers do a lot of work for me from a subcontractor level you know they're they want me to be happy and I want them

to be happy and so there's some you know I want the guys that maybe don't do any

work for my flooring company to to talk and that's why I wanted to come up there and and have it up there where there's

no strings attached I just want to hear from the community um and in that in

that particular setting it was about what can go career do more to uh make your life better what what types of

deals can we Implement that would make the installer's life truly better and um

so yeah but having those community events where we come together you can see the benefit of it if you go to CFI I

mean those guys that's probably the one organization that does really good at at

coming together and and Rollin said that um that's why the the chapters you know

the CFI chapters are trying to bring them back that's why they work so well it's because you don't have to be CFI

certified in order to to come to the to the meetups and stuff like that but it's just showing people that you know we are

a community We're In It Together and Tanya said the same thing that we need to change it the every man for

themselves mentality and and you need to realize that

everyone wants everyone to succeed like I never look at anyone and like I hope they fail it's like you know we may not

see eye to eye but I still don't want you to fail I mean you never want to have that mentality um just last week

Thursday Jimmy reached out to me Jimmy Salisbury and um he he reached out about

a project probably a couple months ago and he was like you know asking me about material selections and then once once

he he made those selections then he's like I got the job and then it came down to hey I'm doing this job on

Thursday and I really don't feel comfortable will you will you come down and help he said just I remember that

yeah and we need a lot more of that too and you know that that's so I want to add on to that that that installer

strong because I I was right I was already writing stuff down on here about that and like like an installer town hall or something like that and I think

part of the part of the issue is is uh trying to find neutral ground right like I don't want any other installer to feel

like we're trying to just invite you over and then messing up your relationship with with any of the other stores you do work with no because

because we're an installer before we're a store and and um install local guys you guys have to understand that that's

how we're thinking right like we're not thinking get labor get get uh more

installers we're thinking we're installers what were we missing when we did it fulltime ourselves and that's

that's where where all this is is coming full circle and uh I I think got try to get it out there so that way they

understand this is all neutral this is all like at your own will we're not

ruining anything other stor bring come on like if you're another salesperson come join the the party too come and

learn about some other people um I think that we do need to start doing something like that we talked about it a few years

ago actually um and just never really followed up so shame on

us well I think one thing um that came out of the the

meeting down up at your guys's place was you know getting an online form where we all can communicate and come together

off of Facebook possibly and just have a you know more of a forum type deal uh

for announcements and things and that could be a real good place for whether

it's CFI or anybody putting on a you know a um local chapter you know gather

uh event or installer kind of gathering event put it on there advertise it on

the Forum to everybody and Heck if you're close within 30 45 minutes maybe

uh it would attract more people but that was one of the things that came came out of that was you know putting a form

together I want to test that a little bit and make sure it be utilized and if so I'm happy to build

it form together where we all we all can just you know voice you know have our

voices heard we're three guys that rather every week but having having some

central location to um explore a topic and start a conversation and then say

hey all right guys in this area we're gonna carry this on over here in person come on down you know you're right so

then it does give it a it does give it a a better better feeling right creates atmosphere before

you yeah so that's a few things um that I think you know we can all agree would

be helpful if it could be well attended um maybe have it launched out of the Goku app or have it vice versa or uh I'm

open if you'll comment on what you would like to see you know just a website

version kind of deal launching out of an application or how you would like to see

a forum be made that could um you know assembled in a way that could benefit

everybody um you know it also would help if you know installers in one side of the

country is having problems with the flooring product and you start to see these Trends on a certain flooring

product it's closed community we can talk how we want and maybe the next time

somebody grabs it you got a few tricks and tips that they've learned through that Forum that helps them get that

product down without you know as many problems or maybe sometimes just stare away from it

I'll leave it at that so 2024 how's how's the year looking uh up in your guys neck of the

woods from a overall you know uh construction maybe uh Outlook or

attitude is it still still buildings people still doing stuff it seems to be

a lot of Education um stuff coming back around again I think we're I don't know if it's every other year every three

years that mean there's some every year right but now they're cycling some some larger projects seems to be more

government projects uh coming across the uh the desk right now and and I think

that that's I don't know if that's going to be the whole thing but that's what's there right now as far as this the

summer coming I I I don't have a metric in front of me for that and I haven't I

haven't looked on some of the local uh uh some of our local affiliates uh yet

haven't really dug too deep and all that I just go to the meetings and we talk about some stuff very Loosely but that's

about it right I think um the ABC the builders were are they do their

projection every year and I think that one is slated to go in January or something like that they're meeting so

the last time we went to one of those they they were pretty spot on with everything I mean they have the the

resources and stuff to keep track of that kind of stuff and I mean they they straight up said in there they were like

you know we see commercial going this way we see residential going this way and that's almost exactly what happened

and now um that was commercial going this way and residential going this way

um is and that's what happened and I think um like the the projections that I've

been hearing on um other you know different forms of media are almost

like a commercial may end up slowing down a bit and residential may end up

picking up because there the loans and stuff are the interest rates are starting to kind of level out and so we

have an election coming up of course so we yeah that there's a lot of stuff going in 2024 gentlemen so

yeah yeah I I um so a few sources uh say a lot of the similar

things if you if you chop commercial up into um sectors the healthc care sector

is going to continue to to um stay steady uh didn't seem like it was going

to have the same growth that it had last year a lot of that was uh rollover from covid so a lot of projects that got

stopped and this was Nationwide um rolled over into 22 and

23 and uh so that's why those two years were so good for health care but it it

came off of they were still increases from 2019 so they were preco increases

and um it looks like that is probably going to stay steady which is not at

least it's not turning down uh government work is in particular look you know I hate to say it I wish we

weren't but we're in we're in Wars I I mean whether it's proxy wars or actual

Wars um anytime that happens the government's you know trying to recruit

and they're trying to you know remodel I've seen five different barracks in our

area go up for for bid to remodel the barracks and um that's just in Kansas so

and these are huge projects so that makes a lot of sense too because

now the um the office Personnel that is in charge of you know facilitating the rest of it they're trying to make their

place look a lot better too that's what I'm saying it's a recruiting tool hey come join us we just remodled this stuff

well you seen it in student housing look at student housing today versus back you know

you know 25 30 years ago you went to college and it was a it it was like the

dorm dorm rooms that you see in the old movies you know it was not a place that was uh exceptionally special now they

are like little condos you know super nice lvt floors everywhere uh you know

beautiful finishes and and nice appliances I mean it's it's uh pretty

crazy and the government's doing the same thing you got to attract people and get them to you know come join and you

get I was in the military so um you know just National Guard but um still the the

idea of like joining um getting paid and then rooming

board and all that stuff in the barracks I mean you don't pay none of that and if it's a nice place to stay and so they're

they're using it as a recruitment tool possibly uh I would assume as well but

those types of projects are are seem to be not only have I seen that happening it's

also kind of the AGC and and the AIA their Billings kind of reflect that as

well uh AIA Billings for 2024 seem to be soft compared to 23 so take that for

what you will that can turn around in a in a yeah in a contract just a few

months I mean it could turn around and all of a sudden 24 be blown that out so that's a tough metric to follow um but

all in all the interest rates are going uh they've you know obviously paused rate hikes they start the fed's been

really doish on their talk and the way that they're uh you know addressing the

economy so it's likely that we see a another pause coming up or even possibly

you know the first quarter you start to see um you know rates coming down you

start seeing that liquidity come back in the market because they start reducing rates and home owners are going to start

buying because they know they can refinance if it goes down again and so

as opposed to on an uptick it starts to really cause problems uh the theory is

that once you get close to the top uh in commercial it it causes a boon you know

at the first because everybody's trying to get their projects financed at a rate before the next rate

increase and then as it gets close to the top or it sounds like it's close to

the top people stop doing things because they both residential and Commercial because they believe that you

know it's going to do this and you're going to start to you know top out and you don't want to pay a higher rate if I

can just wait a few months for my building or something and then once they start ticking down you'll start to see

those projects coming back to life and uh the knowing that they they'll just

refinance all the way down so it's an interesting um that's not my theory it

was just something that was been posed to me I go to a lot of uh you know I'm member at Stuart and Associates our

company's a member of fuse so I get to go and hear their e economic Outlook every year as well as I uh I do a lot of

reading on macroeconomics and such and so um and the AGC does a good job of of

publishing some of that stuff as well so it looks like it should be a pretty

steady year uh I think 2024 will be the year for the go-getters frankly I don't

think that it's going to be easy but uh I think there's going to be work out there and the go-getters who are paying

attention to uh what where the projects are and and you know doing some research

on on where to focus their attention uh will do pretty well in 2024 maybe even separate themselves a bit from other

installers and other companies and such says that um he heard that llc's in 2024

is going to be a little bit different when you first set them up and I haven't heard anything about that I know that um

like anything other than a C Corp you're going to have to provide the government with information on whoever is more than

a 25% owner so that's one of the big changes so I mean it's going to come to

light where all you're you're essentially going to know who owns every single

small business yeah beneficial ownership is what they call it and um the banking

industry's done that for quite a while uh if you open up a bank account for an LLC or a C Corp or an es Corp rather uh

you know well C corp's always been that way you got to show The Beneficial owners and now it's moving to the es

Corps and the the llc's for beneficial ownership uh to show whoever's 25% or

more not just the majority owner um I'm not sure if that's what he's talking

about or if there's some other things I don't uh currently have an LLC so

haven't looked into it recently uh but that's one of the other things that

seemed to come up you know having a an accountant on tap inside you know

available for installers to like utilize uh was another you know whether it's for

questions like that hey I read this article what's this mean to me you know uh with a with an thing that came up

yeah that's almost like a subscription based model too because uh my friend Colin lives in California but works at

one of the universities and he said even one of the UN the university he works at out there does a prepaid legal now to

where they pay I think he said like $14 a month and you can ask them any questions you want they review whatever

documents huh H so you figure I mean everyone that works in a university

you're looking at a few hundred people and if you expand that to like go Carrera and it's like got you have

thousands of people that that are doing that that would yeah there's been a

there was a deal called prepaid legal at one point um I think the the for lower

needed you know right legal advice same thing with the accounting I I think

those two uh things could be really beneficial in 2024 for you know all

installers to have access to that kind of thing yeah one of the there was a guy

that was in here um a week or two ago and I was like do you have an accountant he's like no and I'm like I mean there's

no shame in that man like when we first started I did our own our taxes and everything too and it's everything gets

to that point when you're like it's probably not the best

idea yeah have an account and have a or access to an accountant and access to a

to a uh to an attorney is I think Paramount in business so no matter what

level you're at you gotta say it in a different way you gotta say having someone else who's gonna take full

responsibility if there's an error is worth his way and gold that's how you gotta man that's how you gotta attract

people somebody would have said that to me years ago i' been like oh oh okay so it's messed up it's their fault okay

okay we'll go with it that's yeah that's that's why you want an accountant to do your taxes not that they you're not

still ultimately responsible but they definitely are going to you get a set of

reviewed financials and they have to sign off on that uh depending on the size of your company and how much you

know effort goes into a review a set of reviewed financials this is off topic a lot but uh you know it could be anywhere

from four to eight $10,000 but that is them signing off that the information is

Le is uh accurate and then of course that they've gotten your signature that

you've provided them with all the accurate information so well with that guys I I

am gonna cut this short this uh episode I hope everybody's doing wonderful out there please if you're watching us on

whatever social network or YouTube you know give us a a like subscribe to our

channel uh possibly leave a comment that that's what helps us out a lot is is

hearing from from the audience and allows us not only to yeah we don't even

care if you don't like it leave a comment and tell us what you think we're doing wrong uh we're we have thick skin

and can U and uh we can handle that so yeah 100% come and join better amen come

join us we're happy to have any uh we're going to have a few episodes in 2024

we're just you know I'm going to try to make it to where we can have you know maybe max out the our new platform to 10

and have you know a bunch of as many installers as we can get on there and

just just do what we do here which is wrap together and talk about uh have a

topic and and uh you know have a a bigger group of guys uh chatting it up

so happy New Year to everybody Merry Christmas I hope everybody had a wonderful Christmas uh you know get

prepped for the new year and uh and uh I'm really excited for 2024 with not

only go Carrera but as well as the Huddle and what content we're going to try to provide and some of the uh

impacts that we're going to try to have in the industry uh we've been here for

77 78 episodes we're not going anywhere we're still here we're g keep going guys

so uh join us uh and if you want to join us you can always shoot a email to

support at go Carrera you can email either one of the fellas too and um ask to be on the podcast we'd love to have

you on as long as you're uh you know you keep that positive mindset we could talk about difficult things and still keep a

positive outlook on how to solve those problems bring the negative on so that way we can find solutions for

it yeah positive mindset with negative uh things is one thing yes and we can

always deal with that so all right guys well I hope you had a Merry Christmas uh it's nice to catch up with you today and

um you know best of luck this uh coming new year and and hopefully all your wishes come true on on uh Christmas here

so yeah we'll talk to you in uh in the New Year next all right see you next

year see you guys thanks [Music]

guys